L. Ron Hubbard was clearly not keen on the subject of psychiatry.
But, it wasn’t always that way. In the late forties and early fifties Hubbard put a lot of effort into selling the psychiatric profession on the virtues of Dianetics. In response, he was not only rebuffed but targeted by a well- financed campaign directed by the “very best” psychiatrists to expose Hubbard and Dianetics as alleged frauds. That campaign gained momentum for a couple of decades as it was joined along the way by numerous Federal and State agencies.
Increasingly, Hubbard fought escalating fire with escalating fire. He gradually came off his original, soft conclusion from his first book, Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, that psychiatrists and psychologists did not achieve results mainly because they did not possess a workable mental technology. In the early fifties he often poked fun at the unworkability of psychiatry, psychology and psycho-analysis (their practioners collectively referred to as ‘psychs’ in Scientology) in his lectures. Then he began to deride mental health professionals as working not to help humankind but instead to control it. His position, while stated with increasing vehemence that betrayed a personal hurt at being attacked instead of recognized by the mental health establishment, was not without support. A four-part BBC documentary, Century of Self (available for free at freedocumentaries.com), though evidencing no connection with Scientology or Hubbard, very competently sums up the valid criticisms Hubbard had been levying for decades prior to its making and airing. It documents the primary use of mental health methodologies for controlling populaces rather than in improving or curing them.
By the mid sixties the organized psychiatric and psychological associations’ attacks were so effective, Scientology was in danger of being banned in every country it had been established in across the globe. Hubbard took off the gloves. He created an international intelligence and propaganda network, the Guardian’s Office, and directed it to infiltrate, expose and destroy the major national and international mental health associations attacking Scientology. So hard-hitting and dedicated were church campaigns against psychiatric associations and front groups in the sixties and seventies that Scientology survived attacks that no other organization likely would have.
By the time I took charge of church external affairs in the early eighties, there were few organized psychiatric attacks extant on Scientology. There were a handful of expert psychiatric witnesses in damages cases against Scientology just as there were in any other lawsuit dealing with issues of emotional distress. But the behemoth organizations Hubbard confronted and combatted (American Psychiatric Association/American Psychological Association) were no longer a factor in attacks on Scientology.
Ironically, it was after he had won the war against organized psychiatry that Hubbard issued his final salvos against it that would justify his successors tilting against psychiatric windmills as a matter of religious conviction for the next thirty years. From the isolation of the seclusion he imposed upon himself for the final five years of his life, in 1982 Hubbard pronounced as a matter of church policy and doctrine that psychiatrists constituted a special, identifiable type of evil spirit. That is, no person within the ranks of psychiatry or psychology was anymore simply a person who wanted to help others but was misguided into unworkable fields. Instead, psychiatrists and psychologists were a special breed of being who had been psychiatrists lifetime after lifetime, for millions of years, and were programmed to create chaos and destruction to earth. His final pronouncement on the subject directly contradicted and tore the heart out of essential basics of the philosophy he had created over three decades in that it adjudicated a class of people as inherently evil. Hubbard pronounced that the sole cause of crime on earth was psychiatrists – “There’s only one remedy for crime – get rid of the psychs. They are causing it!” Perhaps by the time we move up to May 1982 (when Hubbard published this anti-psych tract) in the larger narrative of Scientology’s history we’ll better understand Hubbard’s level of vehemence during that particular period of time.
Such context will no doubt be suppressed among corporate Scientologists. The truth might slow the momentum of a very lucrative con built on Scientologists’ fear of ‘psychs.’ The church has raised hundreds of millions of dollars from spirited annual rallies condemning psychiatry and calling for the “obliteration” of ‘psychs’ as a duty dictated by religious faith. In the year 2011 corporate Scientology leader David Miscavige announced “Global Vengeance” campaigns against “psychiatry”, receiving wildly enthusiastic ovations from his core contributors.
One highlight of that presentation that ignited a particularly raucous response was the announcement that the annual American Psychiatric Association convention that year had featured a seminar organized to try to figure out why Scientology was waging war against psychiatry. Miscavige was clearly tickled when disclosing this tidbit to the crowd. In fact, he was giddy in his dandy, tailor-made tuxedo standing behind his elaborate, custom-made podium.
It made me consider the irony that the head of the American Psychiatric Association probably understood the cross L. Ron Hubbard’s had once borne better than Miscavige ever would. After all, he was in nearly the same position Hubbard found himself in sixty years earlier when he no doubt perplexedly pondered , ‘why on earth has organized psychiatry decided to wage war against me and Scientology?’
And, don’t forget, he lumped priests in among those whole track implanters. You don’t hear DM using that part of the bulletin too much, though, for obvious reasons.
I really like the way you break things down.
Excellent! Marty, you have laid it out so very well, many thanks.
The reason for Miscavige’s war on psychiatry can be summed up in one word: MONEY. The fact is, if Miscavige really wanted to wage war on psychiatry, he’d put out some real, honest to God products with the tech.
Miscavige, the consummate grifter. As long as his blind flock keep paying, his phoney war will continue.
If Dianetics had come out 20 or 30 years later, it would have benefited from a greater tolerance of “alternative medicine” among the medical establishment. There doesn’t seem to be as much of a need to stamp out heterodox practices as there was in the time of Joe McCarthy.
It makes me wonder that LRH’s opinion (and ultimate condemnation) of psychs may have been colored by the terminals on his comm lines at the time.
This is a subject matter for which I’m 100% in agreement with L. Ron Hubbard’s viewpoint.
I am not so sure that is true even now. I could be wrong about this but it sure looks to me like the current strategy is absorption by laying claim to alternative practices as “legitimate” practices and seeking to incorporate them as subservient professions/practices requiring licensing and regulation under the psychology/psychiatry umbrella or medical/pharmaceutical umbrella.
This has been a very successful strategy that flies straight into the teeth of one person learning how to help another without the need of many years of college and/or government licensing.
The effort has become to establish and enforce that if the particular practice diagnoses a pathological condition (as defined by the APA or AMA) in any way, then it can only be offered by licensed and regulated professionals who are severely limited in what practices they can engage in and who must by law refer the cases to licensed doctors and therapists. Thus the alternative medicine practitioners become “salesmen” for the APA and AMA and ultimately the pharmaceutical companies, not because they want to but because they are required to by law. They have even absorbed the priest/penitential (ministerial) role by providing mental health services to parishioners so that the priests (ministers) can focus on their “true role” and not have to take all kinds of specialized training. The mainstream Churches now train their ministers/priests in “pastoral” counseling, which is really training in psychology with a religious flavor.
Dianetics and Scientology flew into the teeth of this whole paradigm of doctor/patient relationship by establishing rapid training that pretty much anyone could take and use in life, not as a doctor/patient relationship but as a partnership basis i.e. auditor + pc > bank — a team effort, not a senior(doctor) to junior(patient) “fixing” the patient paradigm. Since the establishment of the religious bonafides of Scientology in 1986, as far as I know there has been no serious challenge to it as a religious practice and as a religious practice in the U.S. as in the U.S. it is “off-limits” to the APA and AMA and government regulatory bodies because it is a religious practice. Hopefully this will continue to hold true as there is much need of practices that are not governed by APA, AMA, pharma, insurance and government interventions, not to mention years of college just to assist another person.
But like I said, I could be wrong about all this.
True. SP’s Are at TOTAL effect in life. But, L. Ron Hubbard had not yet published the PTS\SP tech, so, people that know that SP’s cannot at this time be audited on ruds short of a 385,000 hour session 🙂 know that if L. Ron Hubbard had known what an SP might do in a situation where someone is trying to get a psychiatrist to get some auditing, he probably would not have had that problem. But, such is life. People live and learn.
Good point Dan.
It has been duly noted by myself and close friends who are Indies (who will remain anonymous) that Corporate Scientology has BECOME it’s own brand of psychiatry and psychology. What with the “Church’s” increasing use of invalidation, evaluation and criticism on its supposed enemies but on the very parishioners that it seeks to steer away from the “evil psychs”. What you resist, you pull in. LRH should have left the psychs alone.
Thank you, Marty. This strikes me as a very fair and informative commentary. I wouldn’t agree that Ron concluded that psychs are “inherently evil.” I think he just concluded that they had wound up in very evil valences which they dramatized over lifetimes. Down deep, he would have agreed (WAY down deep) they are basically good like anyone else. The idea that psychiatrists are the sole cause of crime on earth cannot be taken literally, but seen from a certain perspective, one can see some truth in it. The “man is an animal” and “living organisms are just complicated machines” philosophy that most psychs seem to love and espouse certainly fits in well with the criminal mind and personal irresponsibility. If men are machines, everything just happens and no one is really responsible for anything.
I always thought he meant that there were some thetans (2 1/2-ers) drawn to this field and who sort of kept it going and created it back on the track.
I never got that he intended to adjudicate a class of people as inherently evil. I feel like that is a Miscavige interpretation. I don’t think Hubbard thought in absolutes like that.
wonderful piece of writing Marty. It fills in much needed gaps in my sci history. Thank you.
I’ve never understood this “soft” attitude toward psychs in the Independent Field. Ron spent considerable time and effort researching the whole track, more than most auditors or PCs/Pre-OTs have spent looking there. Did it never occur to anyone that perhaps that search turned up some things we don’t know about the “psychs” on the whole track?
It seems pretty clear that people on the whole track who implanted others could be considered the “psychs” of their societies, at least. (This doesn’t mean they were “psychs” lifetime after lifetime.) I imagine that any group of “experts” which proclaimed to be able to control its population, and did so at the behest of that society’s rulers, could be considered the “psychs” of their societies as well. Whether they used machines, drugs, or propaganda to do so.
“Psychs” in this day and age still perform some incredibly damaging practices in the name of “help”. For example, Carrie Fisher (Princess Leia) regularly gets ECT. If you’ve ever watched a recent interview with her, you realize that, if she wasn’t loony before, she sure is now. She has a memory about as long as your index finger because of all the ECT. And blithely happy about the whole thing. She’s an utter spectator of her own life.
Are *all* “psychs” guilty of the above? Of course not. But the fact is that psychiatrists and psychologists carry forward a group of methodologies which do more harm than good. About the only “good” thing a “psych” might do is listen to “itsa” from the patient. Unfortunately, they don’t even do this without evaluating and invalidating. “Psychs” factually have no idea what they’re really dealing with or tampering with. A dianetic auditor probably understands an order of magnitude more about the mind than the average “psych”, and Dianetics is just a mere fraction of the whole subject of the mind. And yet “psychs” are vested as the people in this society who are the “experts” in the mind. I imagine most of them know better, but they certainly, as a group, don’t disavow the power and faith bestowed upon them by being given this title. At best, this could be classified as “dishonest”.
“Psychs” have infiltrated our school systems, the entertainment industry, government, advertising and a variety of other fields. And I think it’s fair to say that where they have gone, they’ve left damage in their wake. Examine current trends and practices in education. “Self-esteem” is among the most important things that must be preserved in our education system these days. Leading to games where there are no winners. Grading papers with something other than *red* ink, etc. There are plenty of books and news stories about the weird practices that are being pushed these days in education. Where do you think all this stuff comes from? Not from chemical engineers. Not from ballet dancers or the guys who assemble your car in Detroit.
As LRH correctly points out, “psychs” have been given all the money, power and latitude you could imagine to resolve the problems of the mind, and yet they are no closer today to that goal than Wilhelm Wundt was. In fact, it could be effectively argued that they’ve *created* more problems than they’ve solved.
There’s a point where you have to consider whether the misconduct of a person is due to simple ignorance/stupidity, or purposefully based on a desire to harm. At some point, when actions are repeated despite the obvious indications that they are harmful, you have to conclude that they no longer stem from ignorance.
At what point, in what kind of auditing, do we *not* hold the PC or Pre-OT responsible for what they’ve done?
Pat- You hit it on the nail-unfortunately, DM has so viciously turned this beautiful Tech into something so damaging that it doesn’t have a leg to stand on as far as any attacks against others.
Good post Marty. I would like to better understand Hubbard’s level of vehemence he had when he made his pronouncements in 1982.
The last paragraph says it all.
I think this book will accelerate the de-PTS’ing that your blog has been doing , a hundredfold.
I think this tolerance for alternatives came about in good part due to the efforts of various church campaigns that Marty describes above – not just for that reason, but certainly in part.
One vector to try to stop Dianetics and Scientology was to get it defined as practicing psychology without a license. That would have put EVERY auditor, every Academy, out of business. Getting the religious (spiritual) aspect of Scientology legally recognized and accepted was a critical target. Those of you who protest Scientology being called a religion don’t realize that in a legal sense this was a MUST DO (i.e. Vital Target)! Without recognition as an “applied religious philosophy,” you could not audit a single hour without risking fines and jail time.
Nice job, Marty.
I do not believe that was the real LRH in the eighties , the CIA found out scientology worked , then had remote viewing developed using scientology in the seventies and i think they replaced LRH with someone who looks like him .
Thank you for this concise summary. Very informative.
Marty, excellent and fitting post and shows just how “human”
Ron was, in that he was not averse to changing gears to deal
with what he then perceived as an escalating onslaught against
him, and his brainchild, Scientology.
In the early 70’s we had a South African government
” Commission of Enquiry into Scientology ” which was a big
deal here and had the local press in an all out feeding frenzy.
The CoS ( NOT Co$!!!) put out an excellent 127 page document
titled ; “The Missing Report ” for the information of Members of
Parliament, at the time and of course , was packed with all the
testimonials of the court attendees. Many of the G.O and legal
were brought over as witness, including David Gaiman, and
No less an eminent authority on psychiatry that Thomas Szasz.
(himself a psychiatrist.) author of “The Myth of Mental Illness ”
On p.48 of the report Dr.Szasz states;
“….but to make a long story short—– these phenomena which
to my mind, the term I have come to use for this, and I prefer
common everyday words for this, I have come to call these
things ‘ problems in living ‘. Life is full of problems, somebody
is unhappy and makes a complaint about his stomach, about
his head, about his wife, about his government, about religion,
about some social practice — all of these things have come
to be defined in the English speaking countries and in Soviet
countries as mental diseases.”.
“…So what I mean by saying that mental illness is a myth, is
that it is a term which refers to a non existent entity.”
“….There is sadness, conflict, unhappiness in the world, but
they are neither mental nor disease. They are social, political
and above all are moral and religious. They are not mental
because there is no such thing as mind in the medical sense.
People have a spirit I believe…..”
I even lived out part of the “struggle against psychiatry” in
those tumultuous times of “the Enquiry” by dishing out the
COS press format copies of “Freedom” on the streets to
the general public, and it was a REAL BLAST, I can assure
Thanks, again, and anxiously awaiting launch day!
Calvin B. Duffield.
What intelligent perspective.
There are obviously very good reasons to be appalled by or to ridicule psychiatry for being the quackery it is, as I am sure was well chronicled in the BBC documentary. A few of those reasons that come to mind off the top of my head are Bedlam, whipping, lobotomies, electro-shock “therapy”, insulin shock “therapy”, psycho-surgeries, and psychotrophic drugs. All that the head of the APA needs to do to figure out why Scientologists and others have been “waging war” against his organization would be to study history and look in the mirror.
That said, the fact that their organization is TRYING TO UNDERSTAND why Scientologists are against them is actually a step forward and should be recognized as such. I have only met a couple of psychiatrists in my life and they were both rather destructive people and nuttier than a fruitcake. But that doesn’t mean that they are ALL that way. Perhaps most, but not “all”. Today, a few shrinks are actually against “invasive” techniques including drugs. Some are campaigning to stop psychiatric abuse. This should be validated as an up-statistic for them. There is a web site (alternative mental health.com) (which was founded by a public Scientologist) which does just this. This is called validating up-statistics. Of course the official “Church” would never do this, because they have a different motive emanating from Miscavige: an excuse to solicit large amounts of money from parishioners. If CCHR spent a fraction of what they take in on an intelligent educational campaign that targeted psychiatry’s barbaric practices ONLY rather than a generalized smear campaign about all psychiatrists, they would find lots of public agreement and accomplish real reform just as they did in the 1970s when they pretty much dead agented psychiatric opinion. That is when some psychs actually started to engage in a little bit of introspection about the activities of their “profession”. It was good for their “souls” even if they don’t believe in souls. The difference between then and now is a subtle one. Like Marty keeps saying, it has a lot to do with MOTIVE. CCHR still does a lot of good things, but they have been weakened by the motives and the suppressive actions of the COS’s “Ecclesiastic Leader” who, as was pointed out recently on this blog, actually has a lot in common with most institutional psychiatrists.
Interesting insights and perspective. Well presented. Food for thought.
Pardon me, but it looks like a case of ‘paranoia querilans’ to me: ‘In this mental desease the patient suffers from persistent thoughts that are in conflict with reality. Typical delusions are: being persecuted by an enemy, being endowed with a special mission of special powers …’.
First Hubbard makes us part of his personal war with his enemy and then the church continues to rid us of our money still trying to kill the supposed arch-enemy.
If your book contains this kind of revelations, it will clear up a lot of mist everywhere. Scientology’s Veil Lifted. To paraphrase another (very old) book.
Also I think we do ourselves a favour by bringing the man back to his real proportions, instead of seeing him as a demi-god.
Involved as I am in the study of the mechanics of religion through the millennia, and having my share of indoctrination and suppression as well (christianity and scientology), I can’t tell you how happy I am with your blog. And, I’m sure, also with your book.
An interesting note, Mohammed tried to sell Islam to local Jewish communities when he first started out. Needless to say, the vast majority of Jews didn’t buy into it.
I would love to see that 82 ref verified as written by LRH, Sinar?
The best summary and explanation of this ‘Psych” issue I have ever read.
George M. White
Perhaps Dianetics would have benefited from the Free Thought of alternative medicine. Or could it be that because of DMSMH that people began to look for alternatives themselves, rather than placing blind trust in Establishment style medicine? In other words, maybe Ron opened the door to holistic medicine? Yet another effect for which he will not be given credit for creating.
Ron was way ahead of his time.
I would be interested to know what LRH said about being kicked out of Rhodesia in the mid to late 1960’s. I have a peripheral view of what may have occurred.
I grew up in Rhodesia in the 60’s into the 70’s (my handle “picanin” (pronounce pick-a-nin, is a Shona word meaning “small child”. Shona is the main language (alongside English) that was spoken in the northern parts of Southern Rhodesia, later the country was called Rhodesia and even later Zimbabwe.)
Anyway, I was in the LRH house on Linksfield Ridge, Johannesburg a few years ago when I saw the letter to LRH informing him he was prohibited from staying in Rhodesia (as the country was known when he visited). This must have been after November 1966 when Ian Smith declared the country’s independence from Britain, creating a huge rift between the two countries.
The letter to LRH was signed by Ken Flower who was the chief of the Central Intelligence Organisation (“CIO”) in Rhodesia.
This is where my “peripheral view” comes in. My late Dad was an officer in the Rhodesian army during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. In the 70’s he had achieved a certain level of seniority and in the course of what he was doing would often meet with and report to Ken Flower. My Dad told me that he suspected that Flower was a “double agent”, and that he was working for the British government, because of some military campaigns that were either suppressed after lengthy planning, or went horribly awry if not suppressed. His take on it was that the only person who could pull this off was Flower, and that he was a “double agent”. Dad confided in a colleague about this, but they could prove nothing, and were aware of the risk of being accused of treason, which carried the death penalty in those days. Dad’s suspicion’s were vindicated when he heard that at one of the diplomatic talks held prior to the handover of the country, Ian Smith (the “rebel” Prime Minister of Rhodesia) was informed that Flower worked for the British and was aiding and abetting the terrorist war going on in Rhodesia in the 1970’s.
Flower went on to serve as the chief of Intelligence under Robert Mugabe (which is extremely odd in this context, given that Mugabe was the enemy during the terrorist war) and when Flower died he was given a State funeral by Mugabe!
Now when I google Ken Flower, I see it is suggested that he worked for MI6 in the UK and Central Intelligence in Rhodesia simultaneously, during Smith’s tenure as Prime Minister. Well, putting the dots together, I think he probably was. There was no love lost between Smith and the British goverment. When the Federation of Rhodesia broke up, Nyasaland was given independence and was called Malawi, Northern Rhodesia was given independence and called Zambia, but Southern Rhodesia was told to wait and wait and wait for independence, which was promised. It never came, so Smith made a Unilatateral Declaration of Independence (UDI). Britain (and the most of the world) placed Rhodesia under sanctions to bring it to its knees economically. There’s a much longer story, but it’s not relevant to my point.
I have often heard it said that it was the SP Smith who kicked LRH out of Rhodesia. I don’t think Smith had a clue, but just accepted the advice of his intelligence chief, Ken Flower. I think it was Ken Flower, on the instruction or advice of MI6 in the UK, who kicked LRH out of the country. If he had been able to stay, there would be no extraditing him to other countries to face any charges. Rhodesia was considered internationally to “not exist”, and even when Kissinger came out in 1976 (or thereabouts) to broker a peace deal, he refused to go to Rhodesia and would only speak to Smith in South Africa. There were no extradition treaties between Rhodesia and other countries. How could there be? The country did not exist according to the rest of the world, so there were virtually no diplomatic ties with any other country.
I believe that there were powerful international elements not wanting LRH to be placed beyond their reach, and he would be beyond reach if he had been successful in his endeavour to stay in Rhodesia. The denial of a long term stay in Rhodesia was a much bigger story than the one we hear about (i.e. the lone SP – Ian Smith). I think it involved international governments and intelligence agenices, and the element/s behind them.
I can see why LRH was disillusioned. I just wonder if he ever really knew who or what was behind it all. And who or what is behind the psychiatrists or pharmaceuticals? Whoever and whatever it is/was, it is powerful and all pervading. It makes me think that the big fight put up to stop LRH is indicative of the size of the potential loss of vested interests by the real SPs if Scientology is successful. I think it goes much further than the intelligence agencies, psychiatrists and pharmaceuticals. I think it is the element behind them – whoever that is.
And given the size of that fight, the importance of Scientology may be more than we could even dream of. This is why the independent movement is history in the making. Scientology needs to be rescued from the SPs. Who knows …perhaps they have gotten to Miscavige, and he is not just another lone SP.
Really looking forward to your book Marty. Its going to be a thriller!
It was Psychiatry that turned my mother in to a cross between a Frankinstien and the Joker with their electric shocking. Her name was Mad Mary. A real psych type product.
I do wonder if Hubbard brought a lot of this on himself. He had 36 years to update DMSMH and remove his wild claims regarding an absolute state of Clear, perfect recall and the host of other super-human capabilities that could be invariably achieved. He didn’t. Miscavige, similarly, could have made a few edits if he so wanted. He hasn’t. Yet DMSMH is still promoted heavily by the CoS as an introduction to Scientology (and DM’s exorbitantly-priced squirrel Bridge). This is fraud. Hubbard was wilfully dishonest and whilst many of his charges against psychiatry were valid, for some the words “pot”, “kettle” and “black” now spring to mind.
Marty thank you for this. It truly validates my viewpoint that in the early days it was essential to wage war. But now it is simply an IAS urgency for fund raising that the money is actually used for other means
It certainly always seemed to me during my association with the corporate church that very little was done about the “pyschs” relative to the amount of money raised to deal with them.
Other than the obvious fund raising benefits, it seems to me that the churches over fixation on pyschs is part and parcel of its over fixation on “ethics.”
As i understand LRH’s emphasis on Ethics, it was only applied to the degree necessary to get Tech in. In other words, apply as necessary to get the PC interested in case and in session, or the student moving on course. Its not meant to control or punish, and once it bites you lay off.
It should be the same with the psychs. Obvously they are not going anywhere anytime soon. They are too well entrenched in the educational and governmental systems. Therefor you suppress them when and where necessary if the get in the road of Scn, but if its over-done, it courts an aggressive media or governmental response that may well have been avoidable.
thanks for this Marty. I have absolutely backed off doing a qualification in my field because I would have to do a psych based course.
I directly address the fraud argument you make here in my soon to be available book; you might find it interesting even if it upsets your current view.
Marty: I’m fascinated to hear your build up to LRH’s decision to label some as lacking inherent goodness … certainly having the IRS about 2″ from his door, about to indict him, could not have made his mood very understanding.
I’ve found myself, years and years after leaving, still flinching a bit when I learn someone is a psychologist, although the person I meet appears to be completely warm hearted. I always “reason” that — well they aren’t psychiatrists. Oh DRAT — one of my closest friends, who I see only once or twice a year, is a Harvard education psychiatrist. Oh — she’s OK though cause she doesn’t prescribe drugs and feels the field is messed up.
In other words, I don’t meet the person – I meet the label and filter that through my scientology background. It’s not in present time.
The PROBLEM is — once you label a profession or a group of people for possibly very good reasons to the labeler — the door is open for outrageous abuse.
Once LRH said that Dianetics and Scientology was tasked with the job of cleaning up the field of mental health. This, to me, is sound.
This means clean it up. Not destroy it.
Scientology has always been for the able — those who are mentally ill (potentially harmful to self and others) are not (at the time) able. They can barely and in some cases cannot care for themselves. They are a danger to themselves.
Is the solution one of Nazi Germany — kill them? No. OR close down all psych hospitals (as Scientology has worked towards) … NO — cause those people have no where to go but the streets and that doesn’t work.
ANYWAY — another chapter exposed Marty. Well done.
I’m interested to see where this may all lead.
Thoughtful and accurate (in my opinion) posting Marty.
Of course, you know what comes next. The Freedom Mag announcing that you are a psych sock puppet with selected half sentences pulled out to “prove” that you are “pro-psych” and therefore “anti-Scientology.” Wouldnt be surprised if they already had the sites up….
And that would be yet further proof that the more you are involved with the RCS the less you are able to COMMUNICATE or THINK….
Sara, part of the Study Tech is to recognize that you can learn and duplicate a datum without having to accept it as valid or true. If every Scn backed off a field of endevour because of having to take Psych 101 or Conflict Resolution or some such claptrap, then we would be surrendering the field to them. Nearly 20 years ago when i was new in Scn i gave up a lucrative career in a field that the psychs are well entrenched, though its not a pysch field per se. Things turned out fine in that i went into something else that worked out for me, but looking back I would have been well served to have just taken the psych course or two that would have been required. In fact, taking those courses would have been beneficial as it would have identified for me specific areas of Fasle Data I would have had to handle for my area.
Highly accurate summation of the situation past and present.
I could only add that LRH also saw Psychiatry as a Cold War intelligence threat to the West. As covered in his Cultural Destruction essays he felt that the subject and structure of organized psychiatry had been hijacked by the soviets through which they ran cultural destruction programs. Something, LRH wrote, the West never saw coming — while the West was fighting a tit for tat war, sort of “you kill one our agents we’ll kill one of yours” or worrying about smokescreen events such as the Cuban Missile Crisis, the soviets were working on many, much deeper levels running intelligence programs to destroy Western culture from within. It was certainly no secret that prominent Psychiatrists openly traveled to and from Moscow (particularly in UK and France) at a time when such travel was not usual.
But of course that is all over now too.
+1 always thought it was an incorrect generality
Sorta like Scientology Inc. was hijacked I guess.
Good point, the similarities ARE striking.
I agree with you.
And it’s true, there are psychiatrists who are not “psychs” as described in the Reference. But collectively they are.
However, the Code of a Scientologist reminds us to clean up the scene of mental health and one can not confront and handle things which are unconfrontable.
It is good to let it all go and look at the current scene and the current situation.
For me, I see there are some (some) psychologists and psychiatrists who try to reform and bring up new ideas. But the majority of them are just “psychs”, or sycophants, unable to go their own way – independantly.
The world would be a better place without “psychs”.
LRH is right.
Unluckily he didn’t give a correct (or at least his own) definition for “psych”. Every person is an individual, and if a “psych” has specifical characteristics in common with all other “psychs”, it would be good if he had defined them.
In my eyes, Miscavige is also a psych. An implanter. Black Dianeticist.
I love having my views upset! I’ve just never got my head around this particular issue. Can’t wait for the book. :o)
@ scatjappers: Thanks for the post. To the point but not extreme. I agree with your sentiments.
Hat’s off to you on the tone and journalistic approach Mr. Marty Rathbun.
Ron was guilty of being a pioneer at the cross roads of cultural change.
It’s ironic to say the least, but Ron, in my opinion, started the ubiquitous past life regression approaches to psychology that we see today.
There are even accredited universities that you can get a masters in psychology where past life regression is part of the school doctrine.
Ironies of ironies!!!!
Yet, it’s what pioneers do.
Dr. Denk had to do a “Psych Rotation” as part of his Family Practice Residency. Fortunately he had already read DMSMH and had taken courses. He had also given and received auditing. This all was excellent foundation for doing a Psych Rotation. In practice, however, he spent most of that time practicing and playing golf. No harm, he received an excellent evaluation at the end of the Psych Rotation. Rachel
Wow, great post. Thank you for sharing this info.
I’ll try to keep this short, but it’s a long story. I got a call from a friend who said his wife had gone raving mad and he couldn’t find her. I found her later at their house standing on the roof of their pickup screaming out she was LRH. Her eyes were like a lizard, as well as her skin tone.
OSA inevitably got involved, and a couple days later we took her to a remote mountain retreat, had to tie her up at times as she was also violent. Under 24hr. watch for weeks. It was a wild scene nothing like any of us had ever seen. She was stark raving violent.
I went to a local MD and explained the sit and got some sedatives, but the DSA Seattle hearing of this wouldn’t let me give her anything but an antihistamine. Then she ordered me off the case, but I said fuck that, I won’t abandon a friend. This went on for months, incredible local drama, enturbulation and dev-t for everyone involved in the watches, not to mention the family giving up their home. Long story short, we didn’t get her any drugs that could possibly have calmed her and she never recovered and eventually managed to put a shotgun in her mouth and pull the trigger.
Amazing how RCS, in particular OSA remotely managed (and I’m sure still does) that situation with little or no actual reality on the sit. They seem to love to give orders thinking they are somehow protecting the RCS.
If you can know and think with Scientology Tech, you sure as hell can discover enough to think with psychiatry and weed out the bullshit from either but neither will let you, interestingly enough.
This young woman could have been saved in my mind. I can’t help but think she would have been better off in an institution, and possibly alive today ~ monitored closely by sane terminals of course.
RCS is not equipped to deal with psychosis or Type III’s, by policy they are the last on the list, yet they will not allow any other intervention.
Can’t wait for your new book, Marty. Especially, if you are going to address these important questions like fraud head-on.
Regarding the path LRH took over the years with regard to the psychs – becoming more and more “vehement” about them as you show – do you believe that his increasing vehemence was reasonable and proper, or do you see LRH coming a bit unglued about the psychs towards the end?
I can’t really understand your conclusions about this from what you have written here.
LRH was of no mind to back off his attacks on the psychs. Even if psych practices were evolving and expanding in some respects, it was safest and easiest to just keep attacking. The worst elements of it are, in fact, still practiced and in existence. But the old GO did start to change the game a bit with the public attacks.
Fast forward to today, and much of the practice of psychiatry and psychology has changed and evolved. That fact should be recognized. To make blanket attacks against anything which has some positive elements and well-meaning practishoners is simply risking your credibility as well as being the wrong course of action.
Any decent eval on the scene should recognize this and plan accordingly. Unfortunately, that eval would not address or recognize that the church itself has at least equaled if not superceeded Instituational psychiatry in the game of controlling bodies and thoughts. It acts as the State, the Psych and the church all rolled into one, and without safeguards of doctor/patient or priest/penitent privacy and confidentiality. That sad outcome to 62 years of efforts betrays us all. In some respects, the church has become what it most resented and feared.
Marty’s objective viewpoint and example of the Psychs now wondering why Scientology just blindly attacks, as we were once victims of such blind attacks, is very interesting. He does Texas proud.
Fascinating! Illuminating! thank you Picanin.
Thank you very much for this very informative post!
Excellent point. Very important. Thank you for posting this.
Ronnie, I had a similar scene with someone I loved, but not with that outcome.
My friend became a street person, she was OT 3.
Years ago when I as in a sort of spiritual technique crisis, which approach to use, I sat to meditate and an idea formed in my mind that handled the confusion once and for all:
“the validity of a process is determined by the quality of it’s outcome.”
This personal revelation made the outcome more important than my emotional or intellectual attachment to procedure.
Some folks with radical brain dysfunction need whatever cutting edge or mainstream therapies that will keep them on an even keel.
And the demonization of a procedure that would help someone is a spiritual crime.
You already know this I am sure but I had to post it here anyway:
from HCOB 24 Nov 1965 Search and Discovery
“The task with a Type Three is not treatment as such. It is to provide a relatively
safe environment and quiet and rest and no treatment of a mental nature at all. Giving
him a quiet court with a motionless object in it might do the trick if he is permitted to sit
there unmolested. Medical care of a very unbrutal nature is necessary as intravenous
feeding and soporifics (sleeping and quietening drugs) may be necessary, such persons
are sometimes also physically ill from an illness with a known medical cure.”
Ronnie: Thanks for this. I couldn’t agree more and yet for YEARS after the suicide of my wonderful father, I would say — well, I’m happy he didn’t die while on psych drugs.
NO — instead he quit drinking abruptly, stopped taken valium he had been given several months before while suffering extreme anxiety having left a company he was with for over 30 years to be the CEO of a small export company with 30 employees.
It took me years to WAKE THE F*** UP to the fact that EVEN IF he were still on some form of medication, I’d rather he would be here, able to enjoy his grandchildren and watch his younger girls grow into the women they are today.
FURTHERMORE — a good friend of mine has experienced highly audited sister having gone Type III several years ago. Without psych drugs to help ease some of that stress, she is still today not well.
I believe psych drugs CAN POTENTIALLY help someone through a very rugged patch. For a few months. Then ease off and start working with real workable counseling or auditing.
This complete blindness to the POTENTIAL of workable medications, workable counseling and at the last resort – institutions to keep loved ones safe is just another nail in the Corporate Scientology coffin.
The arrogance told to me by the Chaplain at Flag hours after my father’s suicide — “not to sweat it — it’s just a body and he’ll pick up another one” still makes me what to pummel that unfeeling arrogant SOB —
And if I ever see him — maybe I will 🙂 🙂
“His final pronouncement on the subject directly contradicted and tore the heart out of essential basics of the philosophy he had created over three decades” – Wow, that is some powerful wording. Corporate Scientology would have you believe that LRH was infallible.
The blanket labeling of all Psychiatrists and Psychologists as being wholetrack SP’s was quite over the top and definitely not motivated by Pan-Determinism or truth. I’m sure there are a high number of SP’s that gravitate to these fields but to label all is absurd. If fact, I think this helped create the environment where someone like DM could flourish. An environment of deep seeded hatred of another group created a fundamental shift that led to the Corporate Scientology Zealot group we have today.
Ronnie, that is a very sad story and i’m sure your correct in your estimation that she could be saved. I cant’ remember the exact bulletin, but i remember quite specifically that Ron indicated that sedatives are to be given in that situation. When the central nervous system is overstimulated, then it can keep restimulating itself even after the person is removed from the environment where they were triggered. The sedative can cut out this feedback loop and then allow the person to get sleep and rest. If they arent sleeping, they will never recover (my brother was an instituional case, and i observed this many times). So the first step is to remove them form the restimulative environment, the second is to allow them peace and quiet and a place they can rest. But if their handlers arent high ARC, and they cant sleep, they will just be made worse.
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Great write up and thanks for filling in some blanks. I agree with Windhorse about the clean-up needed for psych run institutions. I’ve worked at places that hold trapped thetans in concrete playpens and walked the halls of Keswick home for the Incurables where the howling can bend your heart. Right now psychs have this “job” It’s we who have to get our house in order to be able to take over and better conditions not just for the able. Bill
Theta, i very much agree with you. Militant Scn is no fun at all. Didnt Ron say that you pull in or become what you resist?
Thanks for your’s too WH. Sad sad deal about your father, and I think you’re right. I don’t automatically condone psych drugs, but in certain cases, again, if you can think with tech, you can think with drugs, calming a situation even if needed for months…… well, enough said.
And if you ever see him again, I hope you do too! In fact back slap his cold hard steel coward punk ass one time for me. 🙂
That was back circa 2001… I don’t know if still but “sedative”, or a calming drug had somehow been relegated to an antihistamine. Perhaps by little Davey boy himself, who else?
Theta Potata, I was thinking similarly. If Ron had not been in the heightened mindset that ” they are out to destroy the only hope for mankind” then Miscaviges playing on that theme with Ron at the end of his life may have been rejected by him.
I have a theory about end of life mindsets: those issues that are unresolved by the individual by the time they reach old age become distorted caricatures of themselves.
My mom who did not trust strangers became unreasonably suspicious of hospital employees at the end of her life.
My dad who was always positive and funny was hilarious on his death bed.
Ron’s fear of SP’s became justified with Miscavige.
Yes they will say that. However, the truth is that other than collecting money they do not do anything against the psychs. As a matter of fact I have learned about cooperation between OSA and psychs lately. I guess Co$dm ARE the psychs now.
I would argue that Dianetics was a large contributing factor to the acceptance of alt medicine. How many times have I heard “breakthroughs” in medicine (such as the role of stress in sickness) that was first written in Dianetics.
Great comment Picanin – You really have some great “inside” info there.
The solution to handling the perceived problems on this planet, whether it be the psychs, the bankers, or whatever SP group you care to name – is in getting enough people up through and out the top of the bridge. That will blow the fourth dynamic engram once and for all.
A good demonstration of your point is Travolta’s son. Co$dm prevented administration of anti seizure medication, claiming it was “psych drugs”. At the same time they prevented the use of alternative medicine procedure which could have helped him. Those were “other practices”.
So what was left? Pay us for Flag rates auditing, and we will give him touch assists. We know what the results were.
“I’ve found myself, years and years after leaving, still flinching a bit when I learn someone is a psychologist, although the person I meet appears to be completely warm hearted.”
I used to have the same reaction, not anymore. Actually had a worse
one to a friend, who’s had ECT. Only recently can see him, without this
reality blurring consideration.
I think it’s what Marty says, above:
“His final pronouncement on the subject directly contradicted and tore the heart out of essential basics of the philosophy he had created over three decades in that it adjudicated a class of people as inherently evil.”
It’s an out-point. Maybe Marty has the answer.
I understood the statements about psychs and priests to mainly
concern the whole track, or basics about Mest and Theta (psychs. trying to cure with Mest, rather than Theta).
But surely Ron couldn’t possibly have meant or asserted that every psych was an SP.
Remember that when Ron published it, if indeed it was him who wrote it, he was isolated and being fed daily falsehoods by dm and pb. What credence could be really given to this article?
Picanin-LRH certainly had an exciting life-this alone could be made into a spy thriller movie.Thanks for the info!
Very cool post Picanin !
Yes Mike, or to even LOOK!!
You are absolutely Gotten vorboden to do zat!!
you donner und blitzen und kriegen hatt betta
notten orrgggh ve vill breaken und smashen
youagggh finnngahs mittt ourrgh kolddenn
sletccchhh hammahs vitcchh ve haff designett
und kahssst chussst foahhh ziss perphess!!
Heillll! Herrrr Kommmandannntt!!
(with apologies to our German fraternity!!!
….A parody—of the current command
structure of the erstwhile CO$—not to be taken
Actually, I think that had Dianetics come out 20 or 30 years later, when therapy was more popular, more people would have recognized it for what it was: A bad rip-off of abreaction therapy. There’s a reason Hubbard excluded people who had had psychiatric treatment: Because they would recognize Dianetics for what it was, and not buy into Hubbard’s claim to have invented it. And that blows the whole con.
I know you won’t publish this comment, Marty, but I figured I’d post it anyway. Happy father’s day! 🙂
UTR: Thanks for you input.
I have an acquaintance/friend who 5 years suffered mind-numbing depression. I tried to help as best as I could and DEFINITELY worked hard to get her NOT to get ECT.
But, she did. And for the first few weeks she remembered absolutely nothing. ZIP.
Then bit by bit she started to knit her mind and life back together WITHOUT the mind-numbing depression. In fact, she’s basically pretty upbeat, happy and leading a productive life.
If anything she is FAR too busy – which feels as if she’s filling up a calendar rather than confront her demons … but the good news is she’s alive.
I was STAGGERED to witness what appears to have been a positive effect of ECT. I’ve spoken to others in the medical field who have said that it either “works” or it doesn’t.
I think perhaps it gives such a blast to the brain – that it rewires itself — somehow. Perhaps like it does for many who have a stroke.
BUT — I don’t know. I’m just happy she’s alive …
I’m not a fan of “We’d rather have you dead than incapable”
Verbal data checklist:
If it isn’t written, it isn’t true.
If it’s written by Davey, it’s false.
If it’s used by the IAS to enslave mankind, it’s an implant.
Thanks for your thoughts Ronnie. Yes, it was sad.
“His final pronouncement on the subject directly contradicted and tore the heart out of essential basics of the philosophy he had created over three decades”.
Thanks, TP. That was the sentence from Marty I was missing.
This kind of analysis, comparing later statements and developments from LRH in Scientology with the essential basics of the subject, is extremely valuable. It is good to see the personal integrity, intellectual honesty and social courage that Marty is displaying here by making it.
I believe this is a very positive direction.
Such important stuff. Marty Rathbun, thank you for sharing your comprehension, your expertise and your time in writing this. Thank you for being the voice of facts, information, and fairness. It is an important book and the voice of justice in the face of mass hysteria and polarized sensationalists. With appreciation and admiration, kudos.
Interesting take on end of life.
Seems to be true that as we near our end we become “more than” — as my sister has said. IF we were bitchy and mean — when we are dying we become “more than” — IF kind and friendly – we seem to become “more than”
Recently I was told that a Tibetan Lama – Chogyal Namkhai Norbu teaches that we live our lives INSIDE OUT.
Meaning — what presents itself in your life, in the phenomenal world, comes from within you. For example, if you are finding yourself currently in a life of turmoil and upset, then there is turmoil and upset unresolved within.
It’s really a great way to live ones life. LOOK at what is in front of you and see just where it might be within. HOW it could have manifested?
I mean — think about it — why do I live where I live? Why am I drawn to certain people and shun others and WHY OH WHY am I so caught up in endless conflict around management issues at my buddhist center.
(head smack here) — could it be because I’m such a control freak and they are just not doing it right? And they should let me run the show? 🙂
Could be. But, I’ve recently discovered when I just let all of that go — not only am I happier but I can think more clearly.
Life your life INSIDE OUT — love it.
(Marty seems to me to be one of the truly most INSIDE OUT type of guys!! and this blog and his upcoming book I think are going to prove that — just thinking out loud)
It’s *because* of Dianetics & Scientology coming out when it did that our society now has a greater tolerance of “alternative medicine”.
and I might add, less tolerance of psychiatric suppression.
Hasn’t religion played it’s part down the track in enslaving people?
Aren’t “priests”, the people that further those enslaving religions?
lol ~ good one!
Sorry, Dan. This was supposed to go at the end of the line for Marty, but I goofed on the buttons. Leonore
Tim, what is your point? Your question to Dan is entirely non-sequitur.
Oh yea we knew all about the tech of the matter, but that doesn’t mean we were able “nor authorized” to apply it standardly. Although I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone, you’d have to give that situation a go sometime to know what I mean.
WH, very moving personal story, and one can be
excused for lamenting of a better outcome, for
But in retrospect, we may benefit by the realization of having had, to hand, a suitably competent and patient standard auditor with experience in dealing with these “problems in living” as Dr. Thomas Szass, ( author of;”The Myth of Mental Illness”) called them. (see my post above.4.05 am.)
I feel that the answer to dealing with these types
of situations involving serious depression, always calls for the utmost care & ARC, and complete removal from all forms of restimulation, while favouring tons of theta, bucketfuls of solid comm and good clean nutrition, vitamins. minerals and filtered mineral water.
In short , a calming, reassuring and safe environ- ment as advocated by LRH, and replenishing of much depleted life giving factors can go a long way to restoring the normal balance of a severely depressed individual. (with the modifier of having had such to hand, at the time.)
Just my humble 2c. worth.
Unless I misunderstood who the “he” was, Dan wrote that LRH “lumped priests in among those whole track implanters”.
The point of my question was to get the reader to see that LRH was right to do so.
How is my question non-sequitur?
You are dead-on right about all this. Have you worked on past church campaigns as Marty described above? If so, you know very well that this is true. If not, your logic is flawless. This was exactly the vector of attack on Dianetics and LRH in the earliest days. Not only would the psychiatric/psychological communities not accept LRH’s writings and ideas, but members of committees of the APA/AMA – and very specifically – DC Medical Society, Committee on Psychiatry – sought to motivate government agencies to squelch this new movement. An IRS Deputy Counsel (Criminal Investigation Division, I believe), admitted under oath to having been in contact with the DC Medical Society, Psychiatric Committee. She was quite old and retired when she admitted this, so had nothing to lose career-wise, but she was most self-righteous in her admission! Those complaints to the IRS helped spawn US gov’t attacks on LRH.
The AMA was also hot against chiropractic and tried to get it labeled quackery. I think your estimation that the new medical campaign is to bring alternatives under the wing of officialdom – for more control and profit – is probably right on. My own HMO includes chiropractic and other alternatives, but frankly – you can hardly get to those services through the doctors. Mostly what you get from doctors are prescriptions for drugs and more drugs and suggestions you do this test, that test, some other test because you’ve reached a certain age bracket. (No, thank you!)
I wrote my paragraph below before I saw your comment here. It’s along the same line.
I think you may be right, Lenore. The same thing has been done to holistic medicine by the same organizations that went after Scientology. The psychs and the pharmaceuticals. They felt and feel that they are losing out on money to be made by both. Even now, holistic medicine and herbs used by them are called “quack science” by the psychs and pharmaceutical companies. The fact that holistic medicine works for people has no bearing at all with them.
Sorry, I didn’t realize you were a true believer.
I don’t know what all attributes to full on Type III Brian, clearly out-ethics, sexual perversions, drug use, poor diet, heavy loss, and in general continual overts on self and your SP are contributing factors. But what happens? The mind doesn’t just shut down, it fucking goes away and the being is seemingly gone, and I mean GONE !! It’s like a spiritual suicide and the body is just left to think for itself, which I can attest, it doesn’t do very well.
Excellent relay of data, Picanin and thanks for
a little more about yourself, too. I’m resident in
Durban, (South Africa) and the term Picanin is
used identically here . Where abouts are you
based, if I may ask?
Calvin B. Duffield
Wow, very astute imo.
And my hope for you is IF you are ever confronted with this type of situation of a loved one — aunt, uncle, child, wife that the person WILL BE WILLING to go nicely to some place, to take vitamins, drink wonderful filtered water.
GET A F*** GRIP — people who are bat-shit crazy will bite you, kick you and scream at you before you can get them to a calming, reassuring environ.
Sorry for going off on you Calvin — but seriously dude — what planet do you live on.
Planet ZEN LA-LA???
Scatjappers, you make many excellent points. I’ve seen the harm to people (non-Scientologists) I know well – friends, family, school-children. Just take a look at any horror headline – trace back, and mostly likely you are going to find a psychiatric/drug connection somewhere on that chain. On a daily basis, it’s more mundane, but ever-present – this incursion of drug/implant, keep the masses mellow and uncomplaining, tech.
One societal stat that to me shows the failure of Scientology in recent years is the huge rise in acceptances of “medications” (drugs) – legal and illegal – as the primary solution to human condition. Also, there is the rise in acceptance of harmful treatments such as ECT – as you mentioned with Carrie Fisher (she campaigns to make it acceptable). Acceptance of these things was beginning to wane in 70s, just as orgs were booming and “Acceptances of Scientology” – a divisional stat for Dept. 20 – was on the rise!
Boy, things have changed. We have lost ground, and that is one reason I’ve been piping up. It’s all about the stats. It’s all about KSW. I see what I see, and I won’t wear the blinders.
Is the same cat that has been stalking Silvia Kusada?
True, it wasn’t always a dislike of psychiatry. Earlier than an probable ARCx on promoting to them, Ron had already put himself on psychiatric lines as a patient. Pure speculation here as to what might have happened, but obviously no help was received. More speculation, maybe that is where he decided that eval and inval didn’t help:)
I think one of the points that Marty’s post brings attention to has to do with whether or not the psych’s pose a threat to the survival and expansion of Scientology. During the 50s through 70s, they did pose a real threat but by the 80s the threat was much less and mainly consisted of “experts” testifying in court – quite harmless in comparison.
This does not mean that the technology evolved by the psychs is any better or gets a product, it just means that they are not the threat that they once used to be. As far as the dangers of the psychs are concerned, a lot of people like the idea of a quick fix. The whole pharmaceutical industry’s treatment of mental illness plays right into the public demand for instant happiness. Time, has disproven the pharmaceutical quick fix idea and has even pointed out the dangers of long term use. Anyone who is not comatose can listen to the disclaimers connected to taking various drugs…many worse than the ailment to be cured. If the church had directed its efforts into delivering excellent service at an affordable rate the results alone would have expanded the subject of Scientology. Effective treatment will always win in the long run.
DM capitalized on “psychs are evil” and used it as propaganda to create a dangerous environment for Scientology when there wasn’t one. In doing so, he set up his “money machine”. As long as he created the dangerous environment the money would keep rolling in. That is one reason the Independents are such a threat to DM. By telling the truth of the fraud, people stop contributing. It is the one way to stop his money flow and it must be driving him mad.
I agree with you that the influence of the psych community is pervasive, especially in education but fixating on it and saying, “that’s the why” isn’t going to change it. If you want to be able to create change in an area where there are fixed ideas, then you better be able to get a result and it better be consistent. To me, the short term solution and the longer term solution of handling current psych influences are the same – deliver results using the tech. Do it consistently and affordable and you will see people hitting “demand for improvement” quite effortlessly. Promote (meaning factual success, not the slick PR propaganda that the church practices), deliver and apply the expansion formulas – DO Scientology.
Imagine where Scientology would be today if the focus in the 80s had been on delivery, rather than contributing to the campaign on the psychs. What if people had used the money they gave to the IAS for auditor training? Think about it, all the billions of dollars spent on the IAS war chest…how many auditors, schools, drug rehab centers, etc. could have been honestly established and producing results?
It would suck for DM because he woouldn’t be able to live like the rich and famous but this is what Scientologist really want, not some PR that says the only reason we’re screwed is because of the psychs. If we get rid of them, then all will be fine. David Miscavaige completely betrayed the public with his psych propaganda campaign. He created the biggest Q&A on getting up the bridge and since the church went into “no delivery” mode, it essentially took itself out of the mental healing game and created an opportunity for the “quick fix” guys to get the attention of the public. When the “Ideal Org” program was instituted and the public gladly accepted that “big and shiny buildings must mean we’re successful” viewpoint, the church cemented its stance on being out of the mental health game. I say the church is responsible for the decline by failing to deliver.
I got a post duplicate error, hopefully the moderator will catch it and only post this once. 🙂
“David Miscavige is the ecclesiastical leader of the Scientology religion.” (not to mention, “L. Ron Hubbard’s Trusted Friend!”), proclaims the Church website at http://www.scientology.org/david-miscavige.html
No less an authority than the Oxford English Dictionary defines *eccesiastical,* “of or relating to the Christian Church or its clergy.”
As Rev. David Miscavige, P.O.B., cozies up to Rev. Alfreddie Johnson and Rev. Louis Farrakhan, you might contemplate why he might not want to draw attention to those words of LRH.
EXACTLY. And just who supplies this island of love and mineral water…
the Church? lol
I think this is a good observation. I’m was not an admirer of psychology and psychiatry even before Scn., but it really has gotten ridiculous. After 9/11, I could not convince a staff member that it wasn’t “the psychs” who had blown up the Twin Towers. She listened, but did not hear, and just repeated with a brainwashed glint, “Psychs!”. By the way, it was DM’s communiqué after 9/11 that started my questioning of his leadership, though a bit late on the “track”.
Fascinating history! I have no specific information for you but, “About Rhodesia” was one of my favorite lectures on the “New Civilization” course.
AA, you should receive some sessions of electric shocks and Pain-Drug-Hypnosis. You might enjoy those therapies.
Hope I didn’t give the impression that I was pro ECT, but I think still
basic Scientology and common sense, e.g.: look, don’t listen, applies.
(Which you did, as I understand it, with your friend and I now do with mine)
Lisa McPherson’s breakdown was similar. I wonder if executive C/Sing was a common factor in both cases.
Well Ronnie, that would make suppresive sense. Antihistamimes often have a stimulative affect, the oppisite of what’s desired. (I suffer from allergies but i’m always careful to take my once a day Antihistamine at least 12 hours before i sleep, otherwise i may find myself unable to sleep.)
This is phenomenal information to share. These kinds of connections are news to a lot of Scientologists, just fascinating, and so elucidating! I think a lot of Scientologists – even reading some of the comments on this blog – don’t understand the level of cabal that did go on against LRH in the earliest days. They think it was just his “paranoia” or something.
Is it so hard to believe that small talk and agreements in the back room between a few power-elite and government officials could push a man and a whole subject out of a country?! A lot of what went on will probably never be documented because it was just that – a bug put in an ear here or there, an agreement over the phone, a verbal “order” or suggestion. Intrigue of the first order with major consequences for mankind!
After cruising around the internet today, I found this paper, dated 1907, by Peterson and Jung from the Psychiatric Clinic of the University of Zürich.
In it, it describes a process very similar to Dianetics. The subjects were asked a series of questions, and the responses were recorded on a skin galvinometer and a pneumograph. Like in Dianetic processing, repeated disturbing stimuli had a decreasing effect upon the subject, to the point where it had no effect at all detectable by the galvinometer (similar to an “FN”, yes?)
Though you would find it interesting:
Happy Father’s Day to all the dads out there!
Wow, thanks for adding this data to the 3rd dynamic dianetic session.
Love the data and your conclusions.
If that is the case then the church of scientology is using the term “ecclesiastical leader” improperly.
Maybe the term “boss” might be more applicable. 🙂
That still does not change the correctness of what LRH stated.
I think Dan’s point was that if the cult really subscribes to the idea that Priests are also whole track SP’s and bascially evil then why don’t they try to stamp out Priests the way they do Psychs?? Don’t they have the integrity to follow consistently their ideals??
I think their are good Priests and bad ones just like Psychs and that they are all basically good at their core. Hell, even an SP is basically good…
Leonore – very astute. Along with many other successful actions dropped, altered or buried by the current regime was the complete loss of applying LRH to Dept 20. Per COLORED 269 (Central Office of LRH ED 269) of 26 January 1975 URGENT LRH PERS PRO PROJECT SURVEY – REALLY FIND OUT.
“We have a continuing situation in that the public does NOT know enough about what we can do to sensibly answer a survey on what they want from us.
This ignorance is mirrored in survey results that lead us toward psychology, which is all the public knows. Pretty theetie-weetie.
I am shifting PR gears in the direction of not making Scientology “acceptable” but INDISPENSABLE. This is being changed with the GO and will make a difference of approach.” end LRH quote.
All who enter into the field of psychology are not bad. The “psychs” that I would say are evil is that group of people who want to control our decisions, thoughts, and postulates. Some are psychs, some are politicians, some are big pharma, some are big Food and GMO’s, and some are sitting at the head of RCS.
None of those evil ones want us to make one more step toward increased awareness and personal spiritual freedom. Freedom to be, to do and to have. Freedom of association and communication – with unfettered communication on anything.
When the abuses within psychiatry were being pushed back there was a vacuum of help to be given. If the push had been on making auditors and auditing and not on control and money – we would not have seen a rise into this vacuum by big pharma.
The end result is continued evil controls on many dynamics all around the world. Within the church there has not been just a drop in the effort to establish the subject as acceptable, much less “indispensable.” No – far worse. The subject has become tainted to where many won’t touch it as long as it has a continued association with C of S, RTC, DM, etc.
As many of us are well aware – steps aren’t just allowed to go down, stats are PUSHED down and held down. I know nothing being done with the Indie field to push down the official stats. RCS is doing quite well suppressing and holding down those stats and products all on their own. Money and buildings are not the products of the tech left by LRH. Auditors, auditing and free beings is the real prize.
The thing I like about the Independents movement is that you don’t have to agree with everything written by LRH. If it’s not for you, it’s not true. One such thing that is not true for me is some of LRH’s later writings about psychiatry, especially regarding how the “psychs” are the SOLE cause of crime not just on this planet, but in the entire UNIVERSE. In my opinion, that is an extremist opinion that lends itself into being manipulated into hate crimes. I also was never able to “think with” that datum. No one is going to be able to convince me that every single crime ever committed on this planet has been the result of psychiatry. What’s really needed instead is a more RATIONAL and REALISTIC opinion about what works and doesn’t work in psychiatry. Even LRH himself in the tape about the story about Scientology (forgot the name of the tape), said that s a kid he was personally taught psycho-analysis by a student of Sigmund Freud (Commander “Snake” Thompson, I believe). So, obviously we need a less extremist view of psychiatry. In addition to that, with the recent media coverage about Corporate Scientology’s own abuses of their staff members, they are clearly not in the kind of shape to be reforming psychiatry when they can’t even clean up their own house. Even Jan Eastgate, the president of CCHR, was accused of covering up a child sex abuse case which is felony – did psychiatry cause that crime too? Of course, I don’t think Corporate Scientology can ever be reformed at this point.
Please review the fantastic 1963 HCOBs, Engram Running By Chains, for levels of case state, for gradients or types of Clear, MWesten. There’s the Dianetic Clear who has erased his reactive mind and beyond that one potentially clear of the entire time track. Which definition of Clear is LRH speaking of? Also please well consider give Ron credit for the following 38 years of further mega-intense research of Clear and Bridge refinement into the Dianetic Clear materials along with everything else he accomplished in the most amazing period of track accomplishment anywhere and anytime. Ron is Kha Khan a million times over in my book. I wish all would consider whether they have any misunderstoods, whether they have any false or incomplete data, or whether they should just let an imperfection slide and have Ron’s back, when evaluating the man who did the impossible.
It could be because religion is much more engrained in our world than psychiatrists and easier to turn people against the enslavement of the psychs than it is to move them away from religions.
I feel that dealing with religion is a much tougher nut to crack.
Getting the people out of the clutches of religion is a much longer term goal than getting them out of the clutches of the psychs, requiring a different approach.
Auditing is more the approach against religion instead of black PR.
I 2nd that motion.
You are very right!
The world is a dream and we are the dreamers. And the substance of that dream is thought. Our outer condition being a reflection of our internal condition.
Sure wish the old man had a more loving ending.
Oh God, I’m so sorry to hear that.
Nothing good can come out of electric shocking people.
Sometimes one has to do things to get the sick to take their medicine so they can get well.
You know Marty there is one good thing about all this.
David Miscavige won’t live forever.
Or engineered an even easier black-op. Having recognized the young Miscavige’s “borderline personality disorder” early on, they simply cultivated his rise to power through, and with the elimination of everyone who might be capable of taking the reins and shepherding Scientology towards it’s true potential. Whatever the case, the war for Scientology as a bridge to spiritual freedom was fought in the ’80’s, and the Scientology that most of us had signed on for lost. DM commenced to erect walls to fortify his fiefdom, dug a huge moat stocked with piranha and crocodiles all around, then pulled up the draw bridges. The poor remaining sheeple are forced to drink the kool-ade and pretend their emperor has clothes on.
Only you were privy to the reality ,WH and thanks for venting the BPC. —–I got that!
Yeah, I have also dealt with the very situation
you’re describing, while totally helpless, as
a young kid having no one to turn to for
answers, seen my own mother taken away
for a 7 month term where she was supposed
to recover from the oblivion of alcoholic stupor.
There she was given ECT on I don’t know how
many occasions, and I was traumatised when
taken to visit her.
She didn’t even recognize me, and I couldn’t
accept what had become of her. A total
stranger. This was a most unsettling period
and made me realize that I knew nothing of
the “brain” or mind and I resolved to learn all
about it one day.
That was a long time ago, WH and thanks to
LRH, auditing, the tech and an enormous willingness to learn from any one and everone
including you, your heartfelt posts and those
of so many others here on Marty’s blog, I am
at peace today, and have a good grasp of
the mind and the motives of people around me.
Violence is something I live with and confront
on a daily basis in my work environment.
Seeing rival gangs pull out pistols and start
to drill each other, or grab some woman,
kicking and screaming, haul her into a mini
bus taxi, and try to run you over, as you
try to intervene to save her. Try getting
surrounded by 10 – 12 drunken, drugged
out youths, who want to gouge your eyes
out with a broken bottle!
Life in the Berea Road precinct in Durban,
in the ” new ” South Africa—THAT’s where
I live WH
Don’t believe it? Come see for yourself.
My posting to which you replied, was based
on my work with dedicated substance abuse
therapists who taught me the advice I tried
to share with you. The late Madge Butler of
LULAMA Durban , was an inspiration to so
many who had fallen by the way, and helped
to recover, through the very programme
outlined to you above.
So take heart. yesterday is gone forever, but
we can still make our today and tomorrow!
I can’t say man… the whole scene was nutty as hell.
CCHR, the group that directly coordinates the current attack stance against psychs, uses sweeping statements in their fundraising, designed to frighten and outrage people so they open their pocketbooks and donate to the cause. CCHR also makes “positive” statements such as “wiping out psychiatry” or “taking over the field of mental health.”
Taking over the field of mental health. Really? The logistics of that dwarf those of the vaunted Ideal Org campaigns by orders of magnitude, and we’ve all seen how ineffective the efforts have been to man up that program.
On second read, no, in this case there was no CS’ing. Ever, in fact. Just adjudications from above. The CSing had already been done by ASHO just a few weeks earlier on her and her husband, interestingly enough. Remember, I warned you it was a long story.
Christ, now you’re making me look. I never got there was any CS on the case, but what did I really know? Clearly not much now that I look at it again. Perhaps Miscavige was there all along? How creepy is that possibility? Good lord.
If the Scientologists who checked Lisa McPherson out of Morton Plant Hospital against medical advice had allowed her to remain there and be treated with anti-psychotic drugs, she would be alive today. True, an illegal PC, but alive. And all the auditing Lisa did receive before her psychotic break didn’t do her much good did it?
Psychiatric drugs are abused and over-used no doubt. But they also save lives when used appropriately. I have seen this too often to believe otherwise. My dear sibling is alive today because of these medications. I don’t care if he is an illegal PC and neither does he! Alive, well, productive that’s what matters.
This issue is not black and white. Scientology two-valued logic is so utterly simplistic and failure-prone. The inability to look and to reason is killing Scientology in each individual’s mind as much or more so than the disastrous policies of Miscavage.
Sadly, Scientology itself itself is predicated on infinity value logic, but in practice within Scn Inc., you are right, it is two-valued logic (read illogic)
Agreed WH, your comments represent my recent experiences exactly.
One has to deal with what is.
An interesting comment by LRH on his opposition to psychiatry taken from Supplemental Lecture 9, SOP 5 LONG FORM STEP V – ADDITIONAL TECHNIQUES, Philadelphia Doctorate Course 23 January 1953
“…Because you see, the fellow who yells loudest in the crowd is of course asserting the fact that he above all is not guilty of this, because he is being very reprimanding on the subject. So watch that fellow who yells loudest in the crowd on such a thing as kidnaping, such a thing as hanging, and so forth. You could take him off quietly and you would process him, because you’d find that incident right there on whatever he’s protesting against with a screaming fit. This tells you that sometime on the track I must have been a psychiatrist, doesn’t it? Well, that’s right. I was.”
Quite aside from anything to do with LRH or Scientology, the history of psychiatry in the 20th century includes many, many horrendous acts. We have to go no further than its use of electro shock and especially at one time it’s thousands and thousands of lobotomies,to get just a glimpse of the havoc the psychiatric profession has caused to the human race. And so one can certainly understand LRH’s rage against them when they turned against HIM.
Having said that, Scientology’s obsession with psychs as the source of all crime/evils in society follows a long honored tradition in the monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) – that of the evil one we need to all fight. As was once said “You can have God without religion, but you can’t have religion without the devil.” This statement is not completely true of course, but does get the point across how important it is to the “religious game” to have the important and very powerful evil one on “the other side” to do battle with. Satan is ALWAYS working against Jesus and/or God (for non Jesus based religions) and he is the source of all that is bad in our lives.
And so with Scientology. The source of ALL crime is the psychs. They are behind ALL the terrible things in modern culture and education and without them, there would have been no Nazis.
And of course in Scientology theology, there is the “evil one” (whose name I will not mention here, most of us know it) who implanted us all with the above Earth religions, so really even the priests, rabbis and imams are just doing the devil’s bidding (or the psychiatrist’s bidding as the psychs are the latest incarnation of the evil one’s helpers).
And so it folls that fighting the evil one is always always ALWAYS a great money maker and always will be, as well as in rallying the troops to the great battle of good vs. evil, which we are duty bound as Scientologists to fight.
I will add that there is no actual data or much background presented in Scientology on this matter. You simply have to BELIEVE Ron on this, that it isn’t just a matter of him being royally pissed off at those who are trying to destroy him. Just like the Bible, which is a revelation from God himself, so it is with LRH’s pronouncements – HE found this on his whole track, SO IT IS TRUE.
Yes. This guy is Silvia’s stalker. Higgs is also Truthseeker, Misterfabian and God knows who else. He’s a long-time troll and creep.
Marty, is it really fair to allow these attacks on me to go through forcing me to respond to defend myself thus changing the subject matter? Is the subject matter of this article about me or Silvia K.? Marty, please don’t allow them to keep doing this.
Proof of my true identity is on my blog on the “about” page.
I never stalked anyone in my life. You need to look up the definition of the word. Why are you trying to discredit me by accusing me of doing something I didn’t do? In any case, this is not the place to discuss this. If you have issue on what I wrote here in the comment section of this article, then argue on the merits of what I wrote instead of attacking me personally. If you want to say something to me, just go do my blog and leave a comment.
Thanks Marty for a great blog and the video link was very eye opening.
My personal view on Ron’s seemingly contradictory messages regarding the “psychs” is not so complicated. He knew that the results of “psych”tech on the 4th dynamic were destructive and regressive to the goals of spiritual enlightenment and freedom. Whether or not there were decent individuals within the field was largely irrelevant. In order for Scientology philosophy, technology or goals to permeate the civilized world as psychology/psychiatry had done, then the two were diametrically opposed and therefore he had to disconnect them from the main power communication lines of the world.
If I use the basis of my argument, the documentary you provided, then on one hand you had Freud who thought that the basic nature of man was an irrational and dangerous being that had to be controlled if there was to be any civilization at all, or at the opposite end of the spectrum, that man was basically rational and that it was society that forces or brings him to a state of irrationality, both have some kernels of truth, but miss the basic truths LRH discovered about life. No matter what developments in the field, whether true or not, the field itself was and continues to be used for the primary benefit of controlling individuals and their actions for the benefit of a few elitists – corporate and political.
In all my years of reading LRH and the time I worked within the SO and Orgs, it was very apparent to me that LRH was motivated to help man free himself from his unwanted irrationalities and restore to the individual personal and spiritual freedom. He had seen first hand the affects of psychiatry and psychology on the human spirit and knew that they held no answer to achieving the goals of a freed and civilized society.
Given his goals and objectives, then it becomes clear that both psychiatry and psychology needed to be removed off the primary comm lines of the world, even if that meant labeling them all as SPs. One does not have pity on the poor opposing soldier that was conscripted to the army when planning and executing a military campaign to win the war. Of course all the bloody Krauts were inhumane evil Nazis who were hell bent on taking over the world and killing anyone that did not live up to their Aryan standards! How else do you focus the attention of your soldiers on the righteousness of killing the enemy?
I do not believe, nor have I ever, that every person connected with psychiatry or psychology is inherently evil and I don’t believe Ron thought that way either. If anything I think Ron was a very pragmatic man, and he could see that for him to achieve his goals, that he needed to focus Scientologist’s efforts in discrediting the psychs and that he knew that it would take a massive shoulder to shoulder effort to win that “war”.
DM P.O.S has just capitalised on LRHs words to milk the cash cows of as much money as possible so as to build edifices around his golden cage. If anything he opened the door to allowing the psychs unfettered access to the power comm lines of the world while he marginalised Scientology as a bat shit crazy lunatic cult.
Been There, it is questionable whether Lisa would still be alive, as I believe she died of a pulmonary embolism.
Is it possible to answer the question of whether treatment of her mental/emotional condition, could have prevented the embolism?
I don’t know the answer to that, and it may not be an answerable question.
Screw you Calvin, as if only certain folk are privy to reality, as if only certain SO know best, again, screw you dude.
When LRH says “psychs” or psychiatry does he mean anyone interested in, studying, associating with, identifying with or practicing any aspect of psychiatry/psychology? That seems to be the interpretation taken by the Church and some here too. I do not think that was the intent. I think there was a more specific group he was talking about. “The Psychs” has become a reactive generalization in the church.
“Psych drugs” is a big generality. There are by now hundreds of “psych drugs” with the pharma developing new ones every year.
I doubt that very many of them are actually useful in the sense of helpful even for emergency use. LRH did condone the use of some sedatives in certain situations, but that’s all. He was not against the use of medical drugs in general, when appropriately prescribed, but today’s “psych drugs” are horses of a different color.
It seems that when Miscavige personally C/Sed Lisa to attest to Clear, it was a couple of weeks before her breakdown. https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/david-miscavige-killed-lisa-mcpherson/
I assume Jung’s galvanometer didn’t have a tone arm, so after a blowdown, all they could do was end session.
I fully agree.
I would even say that mainstream medicine has most shortcomings that psychiatry has. Some of these are :
# doctor’s arrogance and “know best”
# damaging treatments which are only discontinued much later when they are no longer “in fashion” (e.g. the medieval practice of cutting people’s veins so the “illness could get out”)
# ignoring improvements, and opposing those who introduce improvements (e.g. Dr. Semmelweis who discovered that a doctor should wash his hands before he touches his next patient)
# plain stupid mistakes (e.g. amputation of the healthy leg, when the other one should have been cut off)
# reputation is more important than results
# and last not least : motivation of money (or call it greed)
If these are not eradicated from mainstream medicine, how can anyone expect psychiatry to be 100 % sane and benificial ?!
Marty, you have made 2 good points today! First the article above. If this keeps up OSA will soon be 4x the size of the church’s entire technical delivery divisions and departments! That’s quite a bit of suppression uf you ask me! 🙂 And regarding Tim Higgs, well, usually your first response to this individual is OK and then after this it is just natter, natter, natter, natter. I stay clear of people I don’t trust. But brilliant on you bringing Tim “out” to the public. P.S. Marty Shhhhh! Juat between you and me, don’t tell nobody, I can’t stand this Tim F****R. 🙂
Tim, do you know any priests? Or does your feeling come from TV. The very definition of bigotry is the negative generalization of a group.
But yes, I agree, Ron was not to warm and fuzzy regarding the ancient orders of monastics from any group. A pity it was defined in such a negative light. There are good people and idiots in any group.
To generalize an entire group in a bigoted fashion maybe evidence of some withholds needing pulled.
Or maybe just an unfamiliarity with any actual monks.
The funny thing is … that Co$ had already abolished psychiatry long ago.
Don’t you remember ? In 1995 or so they stated (during events and in their glossy IAS pamphlets) that they would get rid of psychiatry within one year – worldwide !
Excellent observation, analysis, and conclusion, Moonshot.
Calvin: While my father’s suicide was horrific – I was an adult. Dealing with a mother’s alcoholic stupor and subsequent ECT, while you were a child is quite different. I’m happy for you that you found scientology.
I have to say however, that I really don’t have BPC regarding my dad. I have what IS. The recognition that the chaplain was an idiot and incapable of TRUE emotions – chanting BS regarding “picking up another body” —
You then jumped over to the violence you are dealing with on a daily basis in Durban (I’m not familiar with Durban but I do know Cape Town well having spent an extended vacation there years ago).
Violent gang members are not the same as violent whacked out psychotic individuals. Gangs are different than an individual. One VS many.
I’m not sure what your work is or how you are able to take violent gang members intent on killing each other to calmly, quietly and willingly go to a destimulative environment and take vitamins. Unless you have prison as a hammer over their heads.
However, IF you are able to really quiet down these violent youth with good words and vitamins — you are basically a miracle worker and perhaps need to work with the UN. I’m only being somewhat facetious because it just doesn’t work to preach love and peace while gangs are leveling rocks, necklacing, hacking with machetes and other forms of torture.
Many a missionary has found themselves hacked to death.
LRH said (and I think it’s in the Study Tapes) in an ironic tone of voice something like “Don’t let your good opinion of yourself in an area be ruined by your inability to do something” (he was referring to how arrogant folks get sometimes in defending their own mis-knowledge of a subject). I mention this because so many Scientologists I have met over the years (and most of course not even trained as accomplished auditors) who are “experts” on EVERYTHING in life. They know it all just from their association with “source” and will gladly not just dispense advice but INSIST (sometimes in an official capacity, like this DSA) that it be followed. These are people who are “experts” on the 2D and yet have been married 3 or 4 times, who insist you do what they tell you with your money, but they themselves are either in total hock or have declared bankruptcy, etc. David Miscavige is a good example of this – he sees himself as the “ultimate” expert on Scientology, yet is not even a proven auditor!!!!!!! Oh, yeah, the DSA and the medical liason officer are the folks to consult when you are physically ill (yeah, right). I have known of OTs who now happily see therapists. To think that all folks in the mental health field are either all bad, or incompetent, is ….. well…. to think A=A…. faulty thinking, right? per Data Series 1. But that doesn’t stop Scientologists who KNOW everything YOU need to do in YOUR life and are not shy about telling you that (of course they are usually extremely confused about what to do in their OWN lives, but why split hairs?).
Very well said, Calvin. I admire your keeping your TRs in, in that exchange, as well as your knowledgeable input and experience. You’re obviously not an armchair philosopher or dilettante on this subject matter.
” everything will be all right in the end and if it isn’t all right, it isn’t the end.” (The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel)
Marty et al are working hard to ensure the old man does have a loving end …
Not to mention Trans-orbital Leucotomies and Pre-frontal Lobotomies.
Psychs are a wrong target. Even those that are SPs are the wrong target, although it is a good idea to cast them aside and point out their abuses, as CCHR used to do.
Here’s the problem with the Church attacking Psychiatry:
If the entire subject is bad and should be eradicated, then the church should provide a proper alternative, which it does not. There are crazy people out there, and they need help, and most are not up to the point where they can be audited in any manner. We know some of the things to do: calm environment, good food/nutrition, etc., a rock to contemplate.
However, what happens in reality when someone is crazy and needs to be cared for? It is considered a potential PR flap. Hell, they are called PTS Type III. They is no handling for them in the church except to get them the cuss out. To the degree they are helped at all, they are locked down, subjected to the Introspection Rundown or something similar, until they are no longer raving (or at least in between raves) and then shipped off to their family. I personally know of several cases where this was the “handling” one of which was a very, very good friend of mine.
So, the church basically washes their hands of the insane, while claiming to have the tech to handle the insane.
The church also has the “illegal PC” policy which effectively bans anyone who has ever been on psychiatric lines from Scientology.
So we have two conditions:
1. Were you ever crazy? You are an illegal PC.
2. Do you go crazy after the fact? You are declared Type III and kicked the cuss out.
So we abandon all people with mental conditions (despite our Code of a Scientologist) and then… demonize the people who do actually try to do something – the psychiatrists and psychologists.
I have learned through direct observation and study that not all psychiatry is bad, not all psychiatrists are bad. Some actually do help, and some can definitely help in the case of someone who has gone around the bend.
So, I say screw targeting the psychs. Target the bank, and get people up the bridge. I also say man up and deal with the consequences of working with “illegal PCs”. I find that one of the cruelest policies the church ever put out. I understand the reason for the policy, but really, we should be able to deal with the occasional blow out. The psychs do – they say “we got to him too late.”
To me one of the worst things to happen that I know of in the church was the case of Jeremy Perkins and his mother Elli. Jeremy was crying out for help – was treated incompetently by all concerned, he went nuts and killed his mother Elli on Ron’s birthday. The church then tried to hush it, and continues the travesty by abandoning Jeremy to the psych ward. This cussing pisses me off. There used to be men in Scientology.
Hi Isene, Nice to hear from you!
Most of the time (not all) it is wrong to condemn an entire group since there is good and bad in almost everything. It seems like mankind is always condemning this or that group — lots of people condemn “Scientology” for example. Most of the time it’s just a blanket generality. In our case, “Scientology” is not the problem. The problem is criminality.
Like black mold, criminality can take root and grow practically anywhere. But when toxic black mold gets into a house we don’t condemn all “houses” or “ranch style homes.” Wouldn’t that be stupid?
When a criminal gets control of a group, the entire group can go criminal by following destructive policy. Like the Nazi party or the Church of David Miscavige.
Psychiatry is supposed to care for the insane. The CoS is not in that business. The CoS should focus on stamping out criminality. That is something everyone can agree with… except criminals. And I don’t believe in letting criminals hide their sordid activities by cloaking it under a different name. Whether they all it “psychiatry” or “religion” or “Scientology” (in the case of David Miscavige) or some thing else, if it harms people or the planet then I say the rest of us call it what it really is: embedded criminality.
You said:”Auditing is more the approach against religion instead of black PR.” The same could be said about Psychiatry couldn’t it? The cult’s approach against pyschiatry doesn’t seem to be working either. Maybe they should take a saner approach there as well.
I am not against other religions. They have had a civilizing effect on Man. True they can be used to enslave. Look at Scientology (RCS) I guess david miscaviage would fit the definition of an SP type Priest.
If the cult thinks that Priests are basically the same as the SP psychs then why do they work at getting people like Farrakhan on board? He is pretty much a “Priest” isn’t he?
All I am saying is that the cult is inconsistent with how they treat their percieved enemies.
I do think if they acted towards Priests the way they do toward psychs, the whole world wiould be down on them pretty quick. I object to the cult not embracing the views they hold and showing them off proudly. Then the world could see who they really are.
I agree with what you say here Chris in principle yet LRH treated tham as if they were evil and unhandleable. Reference : HCOB Pain and Sex. Other references too.
I never understood his approach towards handling Psychs. It looked to me that he had a huge ARCX with them and sort of motivated.
Thanks for the link. Most interesting. The detail in that study is very impressive. They even had a latent read more than 100 years ago.
George M. White
AA, this is pure fantasy in my view. Not one psychiatrist in 10,000 uses abreaction therapy, and they never have. As another poster notes downstream, Carl Jung did some work with it but Jung is considered an analyst. Psychiatry never accepted Jung at all, and in fact today mostly rejects any kind of psychoanalysis, favoring what they call “biospychiatry” and the use of psychoactive chemicals to correct fancied “chemical imbalances in the brain”.
I too am sorry to hear that.
I am not in favor of shock treatment.
They don’t practice what they preach.
Lol!! I agree and have been guilty of this myself at times.
Did you post a bunch of negative material about Silvia K’s personal life or not?
9/11, what a great opportunity to bilk some more suckers out of thier hard earned cash for the greater good of dm’s dynamics.
I heard this on a BC tape before too.
Odd that he seems to be aware of the reactivity of it yet doesn’t change his conduct.
Excellent, excellent, points Grasshopper..
Thanks, T. I have a comment for you that is peripheral to the topic at hand, but perhaps of interest. I think I leaned more towards the skeptical side on holistic concoctions until I saw a couple of articles about water. Evidently there are properties of water at the nano level that are just now being explored scientifically. One is ability of water to retain a memory of sorts as to substances it has diluted, and the other had to do with the flash-freezing of water subjected to different musical styles. Classical music such as Mozart, Beethoven, Vivaldi created beautiful, symmetrical and aesthetic flash-frozen patterns. Bombardment by dissonant, rhythmically irregular music caused water to flash freeze in disjointed, chaotic patterns. Our bodies are what? (guessing) 85% water. Think of the implications! (OK, OK… beyond what you would look like if flash frozen at a heavy metal concert). It got me thinking that some of the holistic preparations people say work for them do so in part because of these qualities of H2O.
Damn, Ronnie. I am so sorry for her. My good friend was a similar situation, although thankfully no suicide. But he was cussing crazy for weeks, and violent. It was the incident that made me realize that the church has no freaking idea what to do when someone is truly nuts.
And then there was the child prodigy son of David and Marie Gale. Phillip.
Who jumped from the highest building at MIT during his sophomore year, at 19 years of age on LRH’s birthday.
His father, founder of RealWorld (the computer business that Larry Barnes became the CEO of – a video of him is on the prior post from Marty) died a few years later, at a young age of a heart attack.
Marie Gale was the former AOLA registrar who left the SO, married David became quite wealthy and was THE SPOKESPERSON for CCHR.
Phillip was profoundly depressed – very introverted. Took a year off from MIT working for Earthlink.
He could have used some intelligent intervention.
There are several young 2nd generation scientologists who have killed themselves. Somehow it just continues to boggle my mind that this has happened. I feel incredibly sad for the parents.
Most continue to stay connected to the corporate travesty of scientology.
They would almost have to – confronting that PERHAPS they could have helped their children with a different approach would be too much.
I feel only sorrow for them.
I don’t know very much about Silvia’s personal life. She keeps that to herself.
Yes, I put up the blog focusing on what I felt where her out points but blog has been brought down a while back. If there’s some info posted about her personal life up now on the Internet, I’m not aware of it. Please give me a link to it.
I’ve disconnected from Silvia and her friends. I’m trying to put all that behind me, but apparently some people don’t want that.
All I ask Marty is you not let the name calling get through moderation. I can take criticism but the name calling I feel is going too far. If I name called like that here, I’d be gone, right?
Sorry — typo — David Gale the father of Phillip Gale died a few years EARLIER than Phillips suicide.
Apparently he was quite depressed over his father’s death.
The reason I’m saying that the active attacking of psychiatry is the best approach against them is because they were or still are *actively attacking Scientology*.
The reason it’s not best to take the active attack against other religions is because other religions are not attacking Scentology.
At least, not as far as I know.
Very well stated, and 100% on target IMO, Grasshopper.
Karen, that is totally spot on.
I think what I’m questioning is we seem to be assigning behavior and logic to LRH that is to generally be found in someone who is not clear.
That some people attacked him so he reactively “motivated” and lumped a large group of people together and labeled them “enemy” without seeing all the gradients, similarities and differences etc. It’s just a “black and white, us/them thing then.
I believe there is some question if the pain and Sex bulletin was written by LRH or edited by someone. Maybe someone here knows about that.
I always figured it probably was, but it’s a tough one to confront. I felt it contradicted his earlier stuff, but i figured he was on OT25 or something so how do i know.
“If anything he opened the door to allowing the psychs unfettered access to the power comm lines of the world while he marginalised Scientology as a bat shit crazy lunatic cult.”
Sadly true. The “psychs” were on the ropes, so to speak. All Scientology had to do was continue to deliver. It reminds me of LRH describing Hitlers criminality. He said German science and industry would have eventually given Hitler the world, and what did Hitler do? He declared war. We all know how that worked out in the end.In many respects LRH could not apply his own wisdom and tech to the organization. I don’t know why. Maybee because he was just as human and flawed as any of us.
Scientology, in and with all its capacity and wisdom, was unable to put on the brakes when needed, correct itself, change or evolve in keeping with its own principles. Why? The group became in fact glib, narcissistic, status hungry and dominated by service fac’s. And then there is that virus Marty mentioned.
The quote i used had been previously used in reference to DM. My post may have made it look like it was about LRH. It was not.
Marty, I’m very curious what you are referring to that occurred prior to May 1982 that would help us “better understand Hubbard’s level of vehemence during that particular period of time.” Can you expand on this?
I did a lot of work for CCHR back in the early 70’s. One thing that we did was actually survey psychs and their bretheren to find out ‘why’ they became psychs. The number one reason was becasue they themselves were suffering and so chose that field. Kind of solo psyching I guess.
Also, interesting enough, the GO had a super secret program, ‘The Media Program’. The purpose of this program was to find and interview every single person who had ever written or commented in any media negatively on Dianetics, Scientology, or LRH, which is why it was totally hushhush. We laid out every single attack since DMSMH, books, newspapers, televsion, etc., and proceeded to locate every person involved. We also looked for their publishers, editors, programmers and so forth. I was the GO operative for Canada, back in the early 70.s, and I was given the job to find and go see all these people. I actually found the reporter who filed the very first entheta article in Canada. I travelled across the country interviewing all media persons we could find. I was amazed at how many of them remembered details of articles they wrote 20 + years earlier, or the tv programs they produced.
We found what we were looking for. The source of ALL the entheta in Canada was the ‘Science Council of the Canadian Psychiatric Association’, something like that. No one even knew this group existed. I suspect there was a similar group in the US.
This group was the one who fed all the material to your local psych, who then fed it to the government, and both fed it to the medial, but this so called, ‘Science Council’ was the source of it all. I was about to be sent into that group, when several emergencies came up in the Toronto Org, and the whole thing got dropped.
Lots of fun.
Agreed Scott. Totally.
It’s been interesting to talk to my teens who both had to take a basic psychology course in high school. Since they already knew the basic truths, they could see what was missing. When their friends suggested “group therapy” for their loss – they were like, not no, but hell no, that won’t ever work!
“Psych” is a valence, found on the track. A kind of being. Stamp out the valence, no more psychs.
windhorse, perhaps a new thetan took over. Just a thought.
Great comment Journey Continued.
Hey,Ronnie, thanks mate, it’s Bedlam there at
times, and since I’m in charge of the property
concerned, I don’t have much choice except
to deal with the suckers since they trespass
onto our property on a daily basis. As you say
it takes a bit of confront, but it’s like being a
cop, you just get used to it, Hell, my eldest
daughter is a cop, and my own wife Dorothy
is a toughie to confront, (you try dealing with
her when she’s mad!!! ) ( laughter!!!! ) Plus
her own stint as a Criminon counsellor over
the past six years, has given her a unique
viewpoint, and therefore ability to recognize
that you are just dealing with a human being
who has gone wrong, & needs guidance.
They don’t really have to be feared, when
you can really understand them, and if you are prepared to simply grant them 100 % beingness, you can actually communicate.
Still, obviously have to stay very sharp and
watch your back at all times, to survive!!
Geez, Ronnie, I actually find it easier to
deal with the miscreants than some of our
privileged Scns on this site mate!!!
And who was it that said; taking responsibility
is not for sissies!!!! You better believe it!!
Tooky, why don’t you try to draw some conclusions of your own?
Amazing blue dog with a badge. If I need help I’m calling the blue dog. It’s really cool art.
Excellent post. Thought provoking comments. Wow. What profession would someone who has a strong desire to help go into? Back in the early ’80s, that was my question. I looked around and the only profession I saw was psychology, being a counselor of some sort. Once I started taking the college classes to do this, I realized it must be whack if the teachers are psycho; besides, I just couldn’t make the info align with my thinking. That’s right about the time I found the DMSMH and other LRH books and became a Book One auditor.
As many have said, David Miscavige & Co. have taken LRH/CofS out of the running for someone who has a deep desire to change conditions and help others like an auditor can. No young person today who felt the way I did is going to consider LRH tech as an option, because what they see is DM’s version – suppressive.
In all these years, the possibilities were endless for how LRH tech could have become part of the fabric of the field of mental health.
Reminds me of when a teenage SO MAA locked me in a small room a few years ago and demanded that I tell him how much money I had in the bank and then turn it all over to the church (this would go a long way to “handle” my ethics scene). As a reason for this, the young man was screaming at me “PSYCHS! PSYCHS! They are killing the children!!!” over and over. His eyes were blazing – he did actually look like a religious fanatic, the type you see when they do news reports on terrorists.
The almost delicious irony of all this “blaming the psychs” for everything is that if you are familiar with LRH’s works on “responsibility” over the years (and have cogged on it as I have) you know that you HONOR someone’s power when you elect them cause in an area. The goal is to keep increasingly elect YOURSELF cause in life and you will be more AT cause over life and happier as a person. So to continually elect psyschs cause over all the ills of society is to GRANT them TREMENDOUS amounts of POWER (while actually diminishing your own group’s). I never recognized any power that psychs had and they never worried me as a staff member. i always felt that WE were the ones at cause over the world if we just did our job correctly and trained and audited folks standardly. Again, most Scientologists don’t really understand LRH’s works on SPs either (which is why Miscavige has been the boss for 30 years now). The SP has no significant amount of INTRINSIC power. He is actually caved in and weak to a large degree. He uses the power he is GIVEN by using the comm lines he is GIVEN. So the viewpoint really shouldn’t be how the PSYCHS are the cause of all the crime and anti-social mechanisms in the society; it should be on what WE are going to do to help society progress. Yes, of course you need to expose the SP’s crimes and deeds so he stops hurting people, but then you don’t KEEP creating the postulate on how ALL POWERFUL he is. In the 70s, we thought WE were going to clear the planet. That was all before the cycle of action in the CoS became “sec check, money, sec check, money, sec check, money, money, money, sec check, money, money, money…” and so now very few (any?) new poeple come into the CoS, which is largely tabloid fodder when the press reports on it. Yeah, those damn PSYCHS run the internet and press!!!!! (whatever happened to “we can only be upbraided for no results”?).
WH thanks further for more sharing of your
situation, and I hope that you can find a way
to come to a meaningful resolution with it.
BTW, the invitation stands, you can come
see the situation here for your self.
This is NOT Cape Town, which is an orderly
peaceful area by comparison, and a truly
wonderful place to visit. Even there, they
have their ‘hot spots’, or ‘no-go’ areas,
just we have in Durban. Unfortunately,
I have my business premises based in the
area, and the deterioration has increased
quite dramatically over the past few years,
and as you can imagine, it’s not easy to
simply sell up when there are few buyers
A bit like Steve Hall’s analogy of slowly
being boiled alive, while not noticing,
Ho hum! Distorted vision, Ronnie S.
Try getting some prescription glasses,
it may help you to actually confront
the situation on the ground, these
days. WHAT exactly are you so
paranoid about? Get a life!….or screw yourself…dude!
“So the ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the
High Priests, It’s our possible failure to retain and practice our
HCOB PL 7 February 1965, Keeping Scientology Working
Have the DVDs. Love this series!!!!!
Picanin, Thanks for your good post. I have always been certain that it is, as you say, the elements behind intelligence agencies, psychiatrists and pharmaceuticals. LRH had Mary Sue Hubbard hire the best investigators to discover the source behind attacks on him and Scientology and in RJ 67 LRH stated the results of such investigation revealed enemies to be fewer than 12 men.
Great post! If Freedom Magazine were alive and well today, your post could be a feature article. It is the kind of real expose that Ron used to write.
Picanin, Also, as soon as I was able to discover here on Marty’s blog and others’ blogs just how Miscavige has attempted to destroy Scientology, I became certain that these elements have gotten to Miscavige, and as you suggest may be the case, that he is not just another lone SP. I’m sure they are happy with Miscavige’s work. I agree with you on the importance of rescuing Scientology and I am certain only independents can do such.
Good points. One must confront and observe what is in front of one in present time on an individual basis. Back in the 70’s and ’80’s I actually knew two people who had had ECT (shock treatment) who petitioned and were allowed to do courses and receive auditing. One became a class IV Auditor and enjoyed auditing others very much (as did his PCs). I am ashamed to say that when I was asked if I wanted to audit him as a student, I declined to do so because he had had shock treatment. I since have realized that, although shock treatment results in brain damage to greater or lesser degree, one should assess such things on an individual basis. The Tech is supposed to be applied standardly, but not rotely. And after all, obviously, ECT is basically an engram. Engrams can be run out.
1. No verification that LRH has written it, omitted fact.
2. To consider all psychiatrists evil is a generality, assumed similarities are not similar or same class of thing, and as Thomas Szasz, a psychiatrist, is about the biggest whistleblower on psychiatric malpractice, contrary facts.
3. LRH had practically won his fight with the APA and AMA and then changed his winning operating basis and strategy into a never ending games condition, wrong target, on which the psychs expanded and eventually drugged a quarter of the American population.
4. If all psychs were evil there wouldn’t be anyone amongst them stopping their harmful treatments, but the most effective official whistleblowers in my country are psychs, contrary facts, as laymen are not considered to be knowledgeable in the field and thus not listened to by MP’s.
5. LRH had researched the human spirit and build a workable technology on the basic assumption that man is good. If man could have been inherently evil the tech wouldn’t have worked but it works, contrary facts.
6. His whole life LRH fought effectively to free mankind but then, once off lines, he introduced the very policy that enabled the IAS, a squirrel group, to enslave Scientologists and effectively undo his lifetime achievement, contrary facts.
7. The total subject of Scientology had the bank as target but suddenly, LRH off lines, the target became a group of beings, wrong target.
8. LRH, the one man capable of and making a life’s work out of differentiation, suddenly generalizes, contrary facts.
9. A black and white policy in a subject build upon an infinity of gradients, is a falsehood.
1. The ref setting stage for a billion dollar rip off, came out in 82, the time that LRH was off lines, the IAS was formed, IRS lawyers created new ownership of the trademarks, after the mission massacre and before Int stats started a never ending down trend, expected data, corroborated facts and correct sequence in a hostile takeover.
Feel like I am witnessing an old witch hunt here. The accused is there, the court, the angry “witnesses” assembled with judge Marty presiding.
I agree with you. What the devil is for monotheism or other dualistic religion systems, are the psychs/the evil spirit for scientology. To get people motivated to follow you and/or spend their money a big enemy is needed. (In politics they know this too.) This will give them power and make them feel ‘good’ about themselves. Look how good I am, I am fighting the enemy!
In the old days the prophets had visions, with or without drugs, ascetism, etc. This was put in writing and could eventually end up in the bible, Their visions were most of the time projected in the future. The visions of Hubbard are mostly projected in the past. What he called the whole track.
Now in modern times these kind of visions (old and new prophets) are symptoms of hallucinations, paranoia, grandeur, etc.
Furthermore, what sins are for christianity, are o/w’s for scientology. Another system of controlling people. Just making people wrong. A very powerful tool in the wrong or stupid hands.
Studying religions and sects can really help to understand scientology and Hubbard, and especially the current state of the church: a bureaucratic institution with a marketing problem. Nothing new under the sun.
It also helps to see the really worthwhile things in his philosophy, because there are. Just as there are in the bible, coran, veda’s etc.
Same here. Reading LRHs psych policy I see something different from what have been discussed here.
Yes, Chris Mann. You expressed my understanding almost perfectly.
Wow! I have to look that up and do some research on that subject, as it sounds amazing! And as to the patterns in me that would result from being at a heavy metal concert (I have never been, it is way too loud and I can’t understand anything, lol), I would assume it would be millions of “Help me!” scattered among it…haha. But seriously that is something for me to get more info on. Thank you 🙂
Agreed iamvalkov. All drugs are essentially a poison. Take enough aspirin and it will kill you. LRH, as referenced above, “Giving him a quiet court with a motionless object in it might do the trick if he is permitted to sit there unmolested.” As glorious as that sounds it is quite a trick with a raving mad lunatic in your living room. I don’t condone drug use, but in certain situations that do occur whether we want to confront it or not, something to calm the person is needed. We have drugs that can do this, maybe a barbiturate, I dono, but I can tell you an antihistamine as prescribed by OSA isn’t one of them. Do you give them the blue one or the red one?
“It was the incident that made me realize that the church has no freaking idea what to do when someone is truly nuts.”
Exactly the tragedy well stated. And there isn’t even a finite declare of who is and who isn’t illegal. Define “extensive”.
AA, I experienced Scientology auditing 35 years ago and it changed my life forever. That’s one hell of a con!
As far as psychiatry goes, my wife and I raised 4 kids who each had a lot of friends growing up. From time to time we saw kids who were taken to psychiatrists. Every time the immediate solution was to put the kids on drugs. This is how psychiatry is practiced every day and it should be a crime. They are nothing more than legalized drug dealers. If they actually had a workable technology they’d handle the real real problem, which is bad parenting. That would take some actual work, but it’s a lot easier to sell drugs.
Good Point Joe. I come around to this in my book – it is sort of a schizoid scenario. On the one hand they mock themselves up as super heroes, while at the same time wearing a decidedly victimish jacket.
You noted “they were or still are *actively attacking Scientology”. Who are ‘they’? Names please.
You are acting out quite the double standard, and are now asking me to enforce it. You are also acting quite corporatized to be here on an above board basis.
About 4 years ago our son was diagnosed with a gluten intolerance. I didn’t know the first thing about gluten, so began to study the subject. I learned that gluten is abundant on the planet because it creates paralysis in insects and small rodents. It’s not supposed to be eaten. I decided to try eliminating it from my diet and see what happened. This was a lot more difficult than I ever thought because in our world of processed everything gluten is everywhere. I only just recently discovered the need to eliminate it from lotions, soaps, toothpaste, etc. If it can get on your hands it’ll get in your mouth.
I want to be as brief as possible, so I’ll get right to my results after 4 years. the following a list of what has been cured in me as a result of eliminating gluten from my diet:
1) Stress (95% gone)
2) biting my finger nails
3) cracking my knuckles
4) joint pain
5) aching muscles
6) flexibility improved
7) mild asthma
8) night sweats
9) back pain
10) improved sex (and I thought it was good)
12) bad dreams (I just have pleasant dreams now)
15) desire to drink alcohol
I know that gluten doesn’t effect everyone the way it effects me, but I do know it effects a lot of people. I read from a nutritionalist recently that in 20 years of consulting people he never found a single person that didn’t benefit tremendously from eliminating gluten.
I can’t help but wonder how many problems people have because they are basically poisoning themselves every day in their diet.
Sara, just confront it.
Absolutely! And it ties in with TWTH precept 21 – flourish and prosper, and put the SP third party into apathy.
One more cycle to handle and I will tell all. But here’s a hint. I live in the country with the best rugby and cricket teams. 😉
Very true. Perhaps Marty could collate the anecdotes and be persuaded to write book number three and give a real biography of LRH’s life, before the history dies with us all ….?
Thanks Karen! I did not know there was a whole lecture dedicated to Rhodesia – going to see if I have it somewhere. Its a really beautiful place, with great people. Its a bit like the RCS: a wealth of valuable beings, but poor management!
Thanks Leonore. Yes I was one of those who thought LRH was a bit oversensitive to it all. But just this one instance gave me a new viewpoint. I imagine many doors were slammed in his face, and don’t any more wonder at his frustration. Yet, he pulled it off. Amazing really.
Thanks for this. Yes, LRH said the SP is very clever. And he taught us about third parties. I don’t put anything past them.
I have facsimiles of things that happened in the world hundreds of years ago and i verified them true by researching recorded history , they are not hallucinations .
Thanks for the ack 🙂
Thomas Szasz – Psychiatrist, Co-founded the CCHR. No-one in the COS seems to mention him too much anymore…
COS seem to have no problem with psychiatrists when they support Scientologist viewpoints. .
Also, there seems to be a wider implication in the above post:
– If LRHs policy was borne of frustration/anger and is erroneous, it raises the possibility that other LRH policies may be erroneous (St Peterburg Times had many issues with the later declarations of LRH).
– This view of LRH as a fallible (yet learned) man would allow some revision of the more… ‘unpalatable’ policies AND would allow further study into/ the expansion of LRHs work.
An uncomfortable thought for those who view him as a god, but also the light around the corner for those who think an alternative school of LRH would hold merit.
(On another note Marty, you seem to change your argument with Tim Higgs at the beginning of the comments when you recognise him as a ‘true believer’; either his viewpoint has merit or it doesnt. Shifting the goalposts based on your perceived context of his affiliation is weak sauce)
You make out a strong case. And again, it points to third parties in the background. Insidious lot they are!
Exactly…Auditors, auditinng and free beings is the real prize.
I have read all the posts here and your post and for me, an old experienced LRH Data Series evaluator, a burning question has come to mind:
HOW ON EARTH, WITH ALL THE EVALUATION TECH WE HAD UNDER OUR BELT DID WE ACCEPT THE AUTHORITY’S OPINION THAT PSYCHIATRY AND ALL PSYCHIATRISTS WERE EVIL SP’s and we should wage war against them?
Was I in between being sane and being brainwashed into accepting Authority without question and inspection? Did I not learn the valuable Data Series Tech well? Did LRH not think that he was talking to trainee evaluators who could apply the following to the hilt and question him on his OPINION and ask for hard evidence?
“Yet a sloppy mind sees no difference between a Fact and somebody’s opinion.”
Was my mind “sloppy” and I couldn’t REALLY think?
People who annoy one with such weird “solutions” do not know certain differences.
Thoughts are infinitely divisible into classes of thought.
In other words, in thought there are certain wide differences which are very different
A Fact is something that can be proven to exist by visible evidence.
An Opinion is something which may or may not be based on any facts.
Yet a sloppy mind sees no difference between a Fact and somebody’s opinion.
In courts a psychiatrist (who is an authority) says “Joe Doakes is crazy.” Joe Doakes
is promptly put away for ten years, tortured or killed. Yet this statement is just an Opinion
uttered by somebody whose sanity is more than suspect and what’s more is taken from a field
“psychiatry” which has no basis in fact since it cannot cure or even detect insanity.
A vast number of people see no difference at all in Facts and Opinions and gaily accept
both or either as having equal validity.
An administrator continually gets opinions on his lines which are masquerading as
If opinion instead of facts is used in solving problems then one comes up with insane
solutions. The anatomy of thought, HCO PL 26.4.70R”
Excuse my ranting, WH and all, but I couldn’t resist analysing myself giving the current subject. Opinions welcome. you are not auditing me:))
Very well put. Thanks for the remarks that have been made about Thomas Szasz, a psychiatrist….as he,(along with a friend giving me The Original Thesis to read, thank you Clarke Balcom..even if you are still with RTC!) who introduced me to the actual use of Book One auditing in 1968. Met him at a conference on why Methadone was worse than heroin, and went out for coffee with him afterward. Changed my life..better to be an auditor than a psychologist (and anyone who thinks everyone who decides to become a psychologist is an evil SP has little grasp of Reality or PT…for many it is what, growing up on Planet Earth, they are told could help…and the good ones soon learn it has not got a good and useable tech.).
Audit and train and avoid those who feed you entheta about Indies or FZ. someone makes a mistake, just fix it, not destroy the,
I know exactly what you mean. Gluten doesn’t affect me that way, but boy, do I get out-of-sorts when I succumb to eating anything with a lot of sugar.
A great reference, which every auditor must be familiar with is Physically Ill PCs and PreOTs (12 March 69)
“The CORRECT ACTION ON AN INSANE PATIENT IS A FULL SEARCHING CLINICAL EXAMINATION BY A COMPETENT MEDICAL DOCTOR.”
The advances in Holistic healing, allergy analysis etc over the past 40 years is amazing. Unfortunately, the drug-pushing AMA isn’t really catching on, but they will.
Correct use of nutritional analysis combined with competent auditing can really make a difference in people’s lives.
I think LRH was a man. He was brilliant in a lot of ways and he had his flaws. I think the inflapable State of Clear is unrealistic. That is another error I see that LRH made was overselling the product oc Clear and what could be epected from that state or from a Solo Nots completion for that matter.
I do think Scientology when correctly applied will bring you to a higher state. I haven’t seen any full OT’s yet.
Your post is quite interesting. I had similar wins on another subject.
From the age of fifteen on I had a huge problem that I was continuously tired, even when having slept enough and continuous stomach problems.
I called it my “eternal tiredness” and after I became a Scientologist I thought it was a spiritual problem (failed purpose, OWs, MU’s or whatever one can dream up) and mentioned it to every C/S. But this problem never got handled definitively in session.
About 4-5 years ago my wife read something in the Internet about Lactose intolerance and meant that I’ve all the symptoms of it. As I was an avid milk drinker and ate tons of cheese I tried it out if that was the basic problem.
Bingo, it was like a explosion. I stopped to take meals with lactose and all Symptoms were gone in 2 weeks and I felt like a 15 years old teenager full of energy. And the whole thing is really stable. Today when I’m tired I know why and can handle it.
I told this very enthusiastically to my Auditor of RCS. I thought, my god why isn’t C/sing uptodate and not asking those questions as 20% of the people in the western world have this problem (a natural thing, not an illness) as science found out. The auditor just gave an ack and I felt his eval about that i ‘m dramatizing NOTS or am kind of crazy.
So I got rid of heavy somatics by handling the body the right way but RCS wasn’t interested in those wins as the sole technology that handles somatics is NED and if you have a Lactose intolerance you must do nots or handle your failed purposes..
How crazy !
Pls. people continue to write about it. The technology has to arrive in modern times.
Another interesting Subject is Nicotine addiction. In the seventies or eighties this was looked upon as an addiction, neither by LRH, but it is. i hope that today cigarettes are items in the drug rundowns.
🙂 🙂 🙂
Sorry, I meant:
In the seventies or eighties this wasn’t looked upon as an addiction
DM’s dynamics, hah, right!
Great comment! I have wondered about this, too.
The following is taken from wikepedia:
“The American Psychiatric Association (APA) is the main professional organization of psychiatrists and trainee psychiatrists in the United States, and the largest psychiatric organization in the world. Its some 36,000 members are mainly American but some are international. The association publishes various journals and pamphlets, as well as the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The DSM codifies psychiatric conditions and is used worldwide as a key guide for diagnosing disorders.
In his book Anatomy of an Epidemic (2010), Robert Whitaker described the partnership that has developed between the APA and pharmaceutical companies since the 1980s. APA has come to depend on pharmaceutical money. The drug companies endowed continuing education and psychiatric “grand rounds” at hospitals. They funded a political action committee (PAC) in 1982 to lobby Congress. The industry helped to pay for the APA’s media training workshops. It was able to turn psychiatrists at top schools into speakers, and although the doctors felt they were independents, they rehearsed their speeches and likely would not be invited back if they discussed drug side effects. “Thought leaders” became the experts quoted in the media. As Marcia Angell wrote in The New England Journal of Medicine (2000), “thought leaders” could agree to be listed as an author of ghostwritten articles, and she cites Thomas Bodenheimer and David Rothman who describe the extent of the drug industry’s involvement with doctors. The New York Times published a summary about antipsychotic medications in October 2010.
The American Psychological Association (APA) is the largest scientific and professional organization of psychologists in the United States. It is the world’s largest association of psychologists with around 137,000 members including scientists, educators, clinicians, consultants and students. The APA has an annual budget of around $115m. The American Psychological Association is occasionally confused with the American Psychiatric Association, which also uses the acronym APA.”
As an independent Pastoral Counsleor, utilizing the spiritual procedures developed and standardized over the past 60+ years by L Ron Hubbard with the help of many others, I have nothing to do with the above two groups. They do what they do, I do what I do.
The training of independent auditors who can get good, consistent results on the people who come to them for help is the game. There is no current opposition to this game except for David Miscavige and his PTS cronies. And his opposition is merely a feeble attempt by a glib suppressive to maintain a monopoly on a few copyrights for his own power hungry self-aggrandizement.
Exposing the lies, corruption, complicity and conspiricies of people like miscavige and the more nefarious drug-pushers of the AMA and APA is vital in its own right.
It can even be fun.
But not nearly as much fun as training a good auditor or doing a great job of auditing a PC.
I for one am really happy that you’re here doing this historical expose, Marty. The fact that you are also one hell of an auditor more than doubles my ARC. I truly believe we’re on the right path and that we’ll reconfigure the game so it gets back to a game where everyone does really win.
Wow, very telling story about the MAA!
“The goal is to keep increasingly elect YOURSELF cause in life and you will be more AT cause over life and happier as a person. So to continually elect psyschs cause over all the ills of society is to GRANT them TREMENDOUS amounts of POWER (while actually diminishing your own group’s).” Yes, this is a continual excercise, and so true!
CCHR has done some important work I think exposing abuse, but the hyperbole is embarassing and off-putting to the public. Unfortunately since DM has tarnished the names of CoS and LRH, when people find out about the connection, they then dismiss CCHR. Another great product.
Jon Ronson notes in his book The Psychopath Test that the drug companies are responsible for creating the ever expanding DSM. But, DM sold out to the drug companies long, long ago. As per usual he is focused on wrong targets, as per anti-social characteristics.
Another great post Joe!
Good post Mr. Bodine. 🙂
I loved your post and it is totally your right to write about what you found out, even some people can’t agree.
It would be horrible when everybody on this blog would fully agree to your viewpoint and just shout :” Yes Sir, you’re totally right !” I would instantly leave the blog.
By slaughtering holy cows you get the people to think and to express their own feelings and experiences about the subject and thousands of other Informations are revealed that weren’t known. This is very interesting and is live communication and creates terminals that can safely outflow and can take a position in space. Those things weren’t aloud in the RCS for the last 30 years and before it one also had to be careful about holding a position in space.
I don’t think that in the end it will be a matter of what is the ultimate truth or whose opinion is right or wrong or was LRH somehow faulty or lied sometimes.
“THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS; LET’s TALK ABOUT IT AND EXPRESS OUR OWN VIEWPOINT WITH RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER”
So I’m eagerly awaiting those 100ds of books that will be written about Scientology and LRH and all the new ideas that man will develop to embrace the knowledge about Engrams and the reactive mind as common knowledge.
DIANETICS was called a Science and Scientology an applied rel. Philosophy or nowadays just a “Religion”.
But those 2 subjects are in fact totally mixed up, per my own experience and understanding.
Are they at all 2 different subjects ?
Dianetics just handles the body and engrams on the Bridge and Scientology handles the thetan to keep the bank away, but why then is Dianetics the main things that are handled on the bridge and going over in the realm of Thetans from OT 2-7 ?
If Dianetics is a real science and the time track is so old and the basic basic is not this life-time but somewhere on the very early track, why do Scientologist then say it’s their religious belief about the time track and the engrams on it ? No I’m wrong. Engrams are not a scientific fact but a religious belief, so Dianetics is a religion ? Or is it an apllied rel. philosophy ?
Or is it that Dianetics is only a science when handling only this life time ?
And when you go onto the OT-levels you are doing a dianetics that is part of Scientology ?
Wait ! Is it perhaps that in fact dianetics is just a part of Scientology that is not religious ? 🙂
I have my own answers about those questions.
It’s so simple. An engram is an engram and it’s better to get rid of them. The guy who discovered those facts and invented a remedy for it was LRH. How do you call it its of no importance. An engram is an engram and if you believe in it or not, doesn’t matter they are nevertheless there and better get handled.
Those facts should become common knowledge and there’ll be peace on earth !
There is much work to do to let the people know about this fantastic discovery that was made 60 years ago ! And still only about some million people know about it !
So new books have to be written in a language that people can understand and the rest of the world has to be invited to talk about those facts and study the remedies for it.
Who’ll write the next book ?
Wow Joe, good stuff!!
🙂 Thanks, Tony. As you can imagine, that show had a great influence on me. I used to work at a pizza place in Santa Monica, and I got burns on the inside of my arms from the pizza pans – I called them my Kung Fu burns 😉
Alex – I agree with all you wrote. IMO (in my opinion) this was another boil the frog slowly. By the time this came out we had been through the purges, the Finance Police, the militant rise of RTC, etc and the destruction of the mission network. I believe many of us questioned what we observed. Probably most dubbed in that there must be some other data they don’t have. To openly challenge these actions usually recoiled on us and we ended up on the RPF, the decks, ethics, busted, etc.
This flow of our errorr in thinking logically that you speak of, is the same coin as the current fanatically follower of RCS. Opinions stated with force are accepted as datums. These datums have never been analyzed.
As a trained evaluator you know the omitted is the hardest outpoint to spot. Omitted analysis of this “datum” allowed an open gate for more destructive actions to accelerate. What we see is a rise of DM and a small gang of thugs. The longer term end result is what we have today called the RCS.
It is most shocking to me, and I expect to you, as we wake up. I had the same type of question. How did I fall into accepting what I observed and knew was not per LRH references and not valid by my own personal observations. What happened to it’s true if you find it to be true for you – and not just because LRH wrote it.
You may or may not call me “soft” but I go by the tenet that one deal with the person in front of them, whoever or whatever he/she is or ever was.
If one is going to go around and label, and exclude certain people for certain things that they may or may not have done on their track you would be headed down a very slippery slope, in my opinion. That kind of think is thoroughly in agreement that people cannot change, and some are inherently evil.
For one thing, it never allows one to “clean their slate” and can only ever accumulate more and more bad marks on their record, until eventually no one is acceptable. If you have had the good fortune to have been declared by the church, and been threatened with being denied Scientology for eternity, you may tend to question this think. From another viewpoint… we see posts here that condemn anyone still left associated with David Miscavige’s church as being almost as bad as he is. (or David Miscavige himself, for that matter) Is it wise or even particularly sane to stick them with that forever?
The whole point (or at least the effect) of this kind of think is to fixate people more thoroughly on their track.
The purpose of Scientology is to free them.
Also, that which you cannot, or will not confront, you cannot handle. If one chooses to go down this path one will soon find himself very alone, and under attack on all fronts. How can one create their Dynamics toward optimum if they keep eliminating or isolating larger and larger chunks of them that they are unwilling to confront or deal with?
David Miscavige is well on his way into this abyss, but I feel that if we do our jobs well as Scientologists, even David Miscavige will eventually be able to enjoy the peace afforded by the freedom from being the effect of his past overts.
I am not willing to close that door on anyone.
Mum from me bro’ ’nuff said!
I can see you now carrying out a deep dish pizza pan with your forearms!!
“L. Ron Hubbard was clearly not keen on the subject of psychiatry. “
Admirably understated Marty! We’ll make a Brit of you yet. 😉
Actually, Hubbard’s view of individual ‘psychs’ was something that I had a bit of a problem with when I was ‘in’. Do you agree with the view that ALL psychiatrists and psychologists are unremittingly evil?
It is certainly true that there were some rather barbaric practises in psychiatry and that totalitarian regimes such as the Soviet Union used psychiatry as a form of mental control mechanism, but surely that doesn’t mean we can demonise EVERYONE connected with this field?
Imagine how much more productive auditing would be if people really understood their correct diet and they could address truly spiritual matters. I’m glad to hear you figured out your situation.
There are a number of things I would like to say as a reply to this comment, but I have a strong feeling I’m being trolled. With my tongue firmly bitten I would just like to point out that it is NOT okay to use lies when “selling” a road to truth. Period.
“the psychs are the wrong target.” Grasshopper I have worked in all the facilities around Washington and Baltimore. St. Elizabeths in DC where I’m sure Ron had the opportunity to visit because up to the late sixties and early seventies it did not have or need extensive security and then they turned out alot of Type IIIs on the street. Forest Haven in Maryland, now closed down which had outdoor concrete playpens as I previously mentioned and the facility in Baltimore;Keswick. All were substandard for any being. The point I’m trying to make is that I feel that Ron was empathetic but wanted to see the project of clearing the planet excellerate and not have barriers in the postulate, but having the attacks pissed him off. The magnatude of care would eradicate DM’s “war chest” (that he would even consider using it for that purpose) and with the riff we are in, neither party can take on this splinter consideration. It seems the situation was meant to tie us up on the time track. This is indeed the wrong target CO$ is -just my pov. Bill
Well done by you and your children. That’s KSW in real life…….
Cosgrove L, Krimsky S (2012) A Comparison of DSM-IV and DSM-5 Panel Members’ Financial Associations with Industry: A Pernicious Problem Persists. PLoS Med 9(3): e1001190. doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.1001190 http://bit.ly/xfWnFM
ECT (or shock treatment as people call it here) certainly was used to ill and damaging effect in psychiatric hospitals many years ago. Early to mid-century it was used depending on the circumstance as control mechanism, punishment and a last resort when they had run out of options for treatment or behavior modification. (For what it’s worth, I think that insulin “shock” therapy was far more savage.) However in recent years positive, therapeutic uses of ECT has proved to be a life saver for certain people suffering from very severe depression. It’s not the bogey man it was in the past and it would help for more people to be educated about it current uses instead of continuing the stigmatizing of the procedure in modern times. Unfortunately, movies and pop culture have latched onto it as “horror” visual — and Scientology never tires of milking that image of it even if it is terribly outdated and misleading.
I think if the person is suffering, and makes an informed decision to have ECT done when other treatments have failed — that should be their choice to make.
Aren’t these the same shortcomings that CO$ needs to address?
I would categorize ECT as a rather heavy electronic incident. The effects that it could have on restimulating some rather gruesome incidents on the track, not to mention actual physical damage to the brain, and perhaps the being himself, are sure to present some rather unpredictable results.
But as far as any actual, long term “positive effects”…. I cannot see how ECT actually helps a being at any level. It is just one more severe blow to the being’s self determinism. Sure, this person you speak of was seemingly not being very self-determined to begin with, but rearranging the track electronically is not a valid therapy in my books.
One somewhat positive thing though is that perhaps now that she does not appear to be totally the effect of “mind-numbing depression”, she might just be amenable to some light level auditing to start her on the road to real recovery.
No argument from me, Ronnie. I worked in psych hospitals for about 13 years, in my youth.
My point is simply that the generality “psych drugs” doesn’t convey much information because there are hundreds of them, and the pharma are developing new ones as fast as they can.
I can’t fathom the CoS favoring antihistamines, because I believe antihistamines are chemically related to some of the early psych “wonder drugs” like Thorazine, Stelazine, and Mellaril, which were supposed to empty the hospitals by controlling or eliminating psychosis. It turned out, long-term use of them caused permanent nerve damage resulting in “Parkinsonian symptoms” (tremors, constant involuntary movements of the neck and tongue, etc). This was one of the biggest potential scandals of the 1970s, but was effectively hushed up.
There are also lots of sedatives that could be well-used on a short-terms basis to calm those who are over-restimulated and gone psycho. However,it was my experience that most people could be handled with communication alone. (Sometimes with a show of force in the background, ready and waiting, to help convince them. The thing is, when a person really goes around the bend, the use of physical force and physical barriers can sometimes seem unavoidable. Psych hospitals are equipped for this eventually. They are like a very solid demo of CCHs, a very obvious control situation which oddly enough, can be reassuring to a person who has lost control of his own mind and behavior.)
Alternative avenues have always existed, but they never found much favor in the psychiatric establishment. I seem to recall that in the 1980s or 1990s, there was an entire mental hospital in Italy which was essentially turned over to the patients to run,to create a “therapeutic community”. I believe this was pretty successful at least for awhile.
This cut across the authoritarianism of the psychiatrists, who always wanted to be seen as the ultimate authority and the ones giving the orders, in very much and RTC kind of way. And like RTC, they always wanted to be paid a lot for their “expertise”, at the same ttime as they damaged cases.
These type of “therapeutic communities” have arisen from time to time throughout history and I feel they are probably one of the best approaches to the problem, as they are at least partly run by the people who know best what it’s like to experience a breakdown,and have recovered from it.
Today there are some pretty successful drug rehab operations using the approach.
The Greek word that that the word Pharmaceuticals is derived form, “pharmaki”, literally means “poison”.
Thanks, WH – another senseless tragedy. MIT is already a very stressful environment, similar to Cal Tech. The workload is so high at both schools that suicide is a very real problem. Add to that the other stresses Philip was going through – it is very sad to hear about this.
“Essential to wage war”. Yes with the meaning of war in this context being “A concerted effort or campaign to combat or put an end to something considered injurious”.
Although I am in no position to know what Ron’s personal views were I can only guess that if his ideal scene was “A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights,…” (Aims of Scientology - L. Ron Hubbard), then following on from his research into who was preventing the philosophy and technology that he developed from gaining broad acceptance at the academic, political, psychological, medical and business world, then the AMA and APA and a few others were direct impediments that he needed to nullify.
I can just imagine how it went. LRH came up with some remarkable discoveries regarding the very nature of life itself and methods that when used correctly gave people a new lease on life and could improve their lives dramatically. On the other hand he saw the barbaric actions of the so-called professionals suppressing man further and further or at best meddling in people’s lives, getting very handsomely paid for it, all the time producing no or negative results.
The “cats” were bent on controlling the masses and they were on the main comm-lines of big business, medicine, education and politics. They were there because no matter that they had no workable tech of freeing people, business and politics used their “knowledge” to achieve their outcomes – a compliant and “happy” public that did not question the status quo and blindly allowed them to be manipulated for the benefit of a powerful, but misguided, elite. Scientology was, and in my opinion still is, diametrically opposed to this. Although RCS is happy to have “compliant” members, LRH was in the game of freeing people from their own self-constraints.
Although he did not want or even start the war, he recognized that there were forces at work that were protecting their own vested interests by launching a campaign to discredit LRH and his work. And being the kind of man he was, he would not be distracted or prevented from achieving his objectives. By “destroying” psychiatry and psychology, he hoped to create a vacuum that he could fill with his tech, and thereby bring about broad international acceptance and recognition of his work. From there the job of achieving the Aims of Scientology would become a matter of routine application of the tech.
Again, in my view, the impediments are still there, if not so openly hostile. The “psyches” are still the tech used by politicians, religion, education, business etc. and scientology if known about at all, is now seen to be by the majority of the big end of town, as a whacky controversial religious cult. (Under POB it certainly fits that description.)
Sure by just standardly auditing and training people, by selling books and disseminating, great inroad are to be made. But if the works of LRH are to be used and taken seriously as solutions to the vast array of 4th dynamic problems, then the vested interests need to be exposed and removed. There is great profit and security to be had in having an oblivious public that blindly go through the motions of life in predictable and controllable pattern. Sort of like being plugged into the Matrix, completely unaware of their real situation.
I think LRH was being very rational in his direct assault on the psych professions. I do not think he bore any malice, or was trying to get even for past wrongs done to him. It was just a rational plan to remove the primary impediment to the broad international acceptance of dianetics and scientology.
I think that the “war” is not over. And that POB has screwed the pooch wonderfully on this by abandoning, altering and discrediting LRH and scientology while the psyches just go about their business, does not alter the fact that the subjects of psychiatry and psychology continue to be used to actively suppress mankind.
Wind Walker “I am not willing to close that door on anyone.”
And these young people today land feet up on the internet to check it out. After reading about the abuses of DM & Co, maybe a small minority decide to check it out only to discover that it is really priced out of reach. It’ll be long shot that very many will make it thru the cracks. There are no field auditors in the O.C. and this use to be a huge field, they are suppressed out of existence. The hope really is in the independent field unless you want to hold your breath (till you die) waiting for DM & Co to be extinguished, not likely… IMO they’ll continue to limp along somehow. So if any of your doubters are still holding onto a candle flame, don’t waste your time, get your family and friends out of the trap now. Then breath some sunshine in the independent and make out of the other trap.
“Ironically, it was after he had won the war against organized psychiatry that Hubbard issued his final salvos against it that would justify his successors tilting against psychiatric windmills as a matter of religious conviction for the next thirty years.”
Yes, indeed, this is an outpoint.
First let’s assume that LRH is not an idiot. If you go back in the seventies, there is not such an attention on « psychs ». In fact, he doesn’t even call them this way. I’m sorry not to be able to quote an HCOB with precision, but Ron talk about « the late and unlamented psychiatrists ». It is from circa 1975.
On Introspection Rundown, as he find the tech to handle the psycho break, he says : « The last reason for psychiatrist to be around is gone »
The feeling is that this is something which is handled, no more trouble with them. They are vanishing like an old nightmare.
LRH was the first to attack psychiatry, and after a cultural lag, his idea won at the end of the sixties. Antipsychiatry blossomed with people like Thomas Szatz, Ronald Laing, Cooper.
I remember I was not yet a scientologist, but I was antipsychs. No good hippy would have favour psychiatry. But, I realized later that this idea was first originated by L Ron Hubbbard.
« One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest » was to some degree an EP in the society.
Another point in the seventies was that you could have had a psych treatment and still be accepted on HGC lines.
Remember this tech film with David Mayo : « The secret of Flag Land Base » The story of a PTS girl who is found to have been given electric shocks. She is audited on dianetics and therafter do her L’s !
Some years later she would have been sent to HCO and the auditing would have been discontinued. I know even some OT’s who were pronounced illegal PC’s for « having seen a psych » in their childhood. This is insane.
But mostly it cannot be LRH. It’s like someone like Hoover was running the church.
So this is a very visible outpoint : in 1982 a return to middle age.
Thanks Marty for another delightfully thoughtful and thought provoking commentary.
As IG Ethics, your viewpoint is invaluable. I sense you continue to wear your “Hat”. Thus, I look forward to your printed publication from a viewpoint with altitude. I’m sure POB is having night sweats at the very thought (along with a few of his coterie). I humbly suggest to ‘Carry on’ but I know you will.
Yeah, these times are a changing more rapidly than most folks can think or can consider. A massive purge is necessary for our mutual well-being and it is in process. There will be some pain. It’s the way of mother nature.
You are one of those friends I haven’t met so far this time around. Perhaps someday. July looks doubtful. Then again you never know.
My best to you and Mosey.
Tunedal, your ARC is quite high. 🙂
You must be based in AUSTRALIA then ??? 🙂
🙂 It’s implants! 🙂
Alex, I totally get it.
It is impossible to have 100% of the data needed to come to a rational, 100% correct decision. This is one reason why two very sane and intelligent people can disagree on things. Hence the idea of multi-valued logic.
The thing is that it is not “Psychiatry” that is evil. It is evil people who are evil. Evil people use whatever tools they can use to be evil, and psychiatry has some nice tools that can be used for evil – and so does Scientology.
Ron’s data on “psychs and priests” is correct, but the error is to assume that ALL psychs and priests, etc., are evil.
Yep. So true.
Thanks a ton for sharing this vital data,
Valkov. I feel with your specialized know
how in the trenches of this ‘hallowed hall
of learning,’ you are certainly very well
placed to make a lot of very valid and
helpful comments, to us mere onlookers!
I have been meaning to get your opinion
to some perplexing familial situation, and
if you can provide me your e-mail address
will contact you directly.
You know what? I have a really hard time believing that today’s “new and improved” ECT is better than the old-style strap-em-down and shock-em ECT. The only difference I can see is that they drug the person first. I am POSITIVE there are less damaging ways to reach severely depressed people than causing brain damage on purpose. I say this knowing that Dick Cavet and Mike Wallace both received and advocated ECT.
I do agree that insulin shock is barbarian.
You know what? Reading other viewpoints is not a bad thing. For example, I have found that the Myers-Briggs type indicator to be incredibly useful information. The whole world is open, and there are lots of ideas out there. I have found that having Scientology as my “core” has allowed me to quickly align new data and see how some new thinking can be useful. There is a lot out there that aligns well with Scientology – mainly because Scientology is really the anatomy of life and life is a lot broader than even Ron can write about.
Bob, extremely valuable data on the complexities
involving the ‘psyche’ question, and shows just
what CAN be achieved when a thorough survey
is used as indicated. Thanks for enriching our
Alex, I honor your constructive self criticism. It is refreshing, because ultimately it is we who we should be finding, not Ron. But Ron is a key.
We open ourselves up to receive information from a teacher. And as “evolved, knowing, scientific, not just believing that we think we are as students of Scientology or any study, faith and believing is still a major part.
When I look at my own history in Scientology it simply goes like this:
1) You learn communication skills and relations improve
2) You learn about knowable things like the mind, have pain be relieved by auding and feel good about Scientolgy
3) meet other people on a quest
4) learn how to study
5) learn how to help people
6) have various experiences that infer or proove ( depending on the level of key out, exteriorization, out of body experience, cognition) the reality of a ones spiritual nature.
7) determine that anyone who is opposed to Scientology must be off the mark because look at all the good that has happened to me.
And after having these basic experiences, that lift ones life up to a happier place, the mind then concludes that all the rest of my Scientology experience will be the same, and Ron really knows his stuff, and my doubts and questions are my bank because up until now all has been hunky dorey.
Then comes space opera. Things, realities, beings, implants, whole track Sps, destroyed sectors of the galaxy, electronic incidents, Star Trek good and evil, absolute evil cosmic tyrants that are the real cause for billions and billions of human beings suffering.
The cause of your mom’s suffering your dad’s suffering, your childs suffering, your nation, city, country, planet etc etc.
In a word: an absolute evil that one must fight in order to save the entire universe from becoming a black nothing.
You don’t even get to go to a heaven, astral world, free universe with friends to play with in a world of multicolored lights where freedom, joy and power abound. You get to avoid space opera and have picking up another friggn body as the highest friggn aspiration of being human.
The Bardo state, between lives, after death, astral worlds, causal worlds have all been booby trapped with space opera. At least theoretically because when a person actually leaves the body at death they realize that info was a BS. And the after life state can be unbelievably beautiful.
So, all the info regarding resolving ones common life, blowing charge in the mind was great, wonderful etc.
Then, when that person, Ron, whom you’ve trusted because up until now life got better, tells you of the absolute evil of mental health professionals and their evil goals of cosmic destruction and he is the guy to save the universe, the mind makes the next step as a student: this must be true, my life is so much better, Ron only wants the good for me.
Then: whole track incidents that are studied become assumed certainities masquerading as direct perception and causes for states of being.
And that’s where I’ll stop.
At some distant time, when things aren’t this crazy, I will write:
The mechanics of why space opera therapies can cause cognitions and, is the space opera narrative essential to those cognitions.
To Windhorse 🙂
Thanks Brian, that was excellent!
Ingrid, I couldn’t agree more! Perfectly said.
Generally agree. If you were a “psych” down the track, I’m not sure how anyone in your current life would know about it unless someone violated their oath as an auditor. And guess what? We’ll all done similar or worse stuff down the track. And after your session’s done, your attitude and that of your auditor should be, “So what? What’s done is done and cannot be undone. You’re here now. Get on with it.”
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn I’d stood behind one of those implant machines, pummeling people. I’m not going to sit around and mope about it in present time.
I believe LRH’s primary point in talking about psychs down the track was to illustrate the amount and particular type of widespread damage these entities have wrought down the track, and are doing as a group here on this planet in present time. It’s a point of historical perspective.
My primary objection here is to the idea that there is more than a modicum of truth anywhere in the fields of psychology and sociology. That’s clearly the outpoint of wrong source.
I also object to the idea that we should excuse the fields of psychology, psychiatry and sociology because somehow they “mean well” or “they’re doing the best they can with what they know” or “I know some psychs who are nice people”. I’m sorry, but the pervasive damage they are currently doing in society can’t rightly be excused by ignorance or good intentions. At some point you have to hold the fields responsible for the products they create. You don’t excuse auditors for continuing red tags because they’re ignorant or have good intentions. You cram, retread, retrain or offload them. And if it gets bad enough, you subject them to group justice.
If you want to defend this or that particular psychologist, be my guest. But the moment they attach the electrodes to my grandma’s temples, they enter a condition of Enemy with respect to me. And the moment they suggest that my kid shouldn’t have to be graded in school because any bad grade could hurt my kid’s self-esteem, I’m home schooling the kids.
No matter how you package it, when you throw a bunch of electricity into someones head I really don’t get how that could be good. I guess you could make an argument for cutting out someones brain as beneficial too if it makes them more docile and “cooperative”.
As you know, a great number of Scientologists studied both psychiatry and various religions (particularly eastern) before Scientology… they were searching for the answers…
But, people who intended to actually help others continued their search past these studies and found Scientology… Scn is unique in our time and in history.
My recollection is that people who successfully continued with either Psychiatry or Religion with the intent to suppress and control a populace were indeed the source of man’s inhumanity to man… (See David Miscavige’s MO = how he operates)
Who is ‘they’?
Nice of you to say that, Lawrence.
Why do you imagine it’s “reactive”? Having discovered he was at one time a psych, and probably handled the area (as one would expect), if he still railed against psychiatry, what makes you think it’s *still* out of reactivity? Why don’t people give Ron the credit he deserves? Is it perhaps reasonable to assume that Ron might know something you and I don’t about the psychs? And thus felt completely justified in attacking the field. I’m pretty sure he did a lot more research than you or I ever did on the subject.
Marty is working along the lines of “Bait & Badger” with the Tim Higgs handle name, and it is working.
Your views and your blog are flat earth, pure and simple.
An “illegal PC” might not be able to get auditing from the Church, but how about outside the Church?
You are quite right about this Maria.
This is in fact a done deal in much of Europe, where a person needs to get a prescription from an MD doctor in order to buy some vitamins and some other nutritional supplements, and can only buy as many as prescribed at that time.
Tony, any “full OT” could neverbe seen by anyone, except perhaps another full OT, unless he wanted to be seen! 🙂
Sunny, ECT is the same bogeyman it always was. The difference is the anesthesia that is used today in conjunction with ECT. Some doctors and other researchers believe this actually makes ECT more damaging and dangerous, because with the anesthesia it takes a stronger current to induce the convulsion which is apparently what makes the ECT “effective”. But ECT has basically not changed at all, and there is really nothing Modern about it these days that makes it any different from what it was in the past. That’s just PR.
However,you are correct in saying that there are supporters of ECT among those who have received it.
It’s worth noting that consumer groups like The Committee for Truth in Psychiatry, which is the largest “consumer group” comprised totally of people who have had ECT, do not necessarily oppose ECT completely or seek it’s ban.
What they decry is psychiatry’s lack of honest disclosure of the facts and actual effects of ECT. And in fact the activity of such groups has led, over the past 30-40 years, to a great deal of reform in the area
of “informed consent” requirements in the USA. But not enough. Those psychiatrists who do deliver ECT, still gloss over and minimize it’s ill effects, just as those who prescribe “psych drugs” gloss over the ill effects of those.
But, many “ECT survivors” will say that ECT provided them relief from mental/emotional distress nothing else psychiatry/psychology provides handled, however imperfectly, and with undeniable “collateral damage”.
(Denied only by psychiatrists, actually)
ECT often provides some relief from their suffering, but at an irreversible cost of various cognitive impairments.
That is why the use of ECT remains pretty constant – the people who opt for it have tried everything else
offered them to no avail.
Here is a link to the testimony of Linda Andre, Director of the Committee for Truth in Psychiatry, before
the New York State Assembly in 2001:
For a lot of informative links about ECT, Google – Committee for Truth in Psychiatry.
For a more positive slant I’m reposting this link below because it explains why ECT has supporters and is not going away any time soon:
Of course, the author of this post did not receive and experience ECT herself, but is reporting on the apparent improvement in the children she knows of who had ECT for some severe developmental disabilities that possibly had a physical basis.
Yes, someday the day will come when ECT is seen as a primitive treatment. But I think it will be awhile. The medicos/psychiatrists have little incentive to do much research into better methods as long as they have something that “works”, even if at a severe cost to the person treated with it. However, with the bad press ECT has gotten over the past decades, they are researching other approaches, such as Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (magnetic “stimulation” of the brain), which appears to be an attempt to induce very small currents in the brain which might relieve depression without causing the extensive damage that ECT causes.
Moonshot, my view on what needs to be done regarding psychiatry is to do exactly what Marty and others are doing to DM and the CoS – expose the truth about them. That’s all the “suppressing” of psychiatry that needs to be done, if that can rightly be called suppression.
Thomas Szasz, Peter Breggin, and many others, mostly “psychiatric survivors” have and are continuing to do this. The reason people go for psychiatric services is because they have no alternative or don’t know of any alternative, and insurance pays for it.
It has been observed and proven over the past decades that whatever positive effect ECT has on a person’s mood is very temporary usually lasting only a few weeks. For that reason, most people who get any relief from it, get scheduled for “maintenance ECT treatments” throughout the year. This provides “residual income” for the ECT provider, too, as insurance will cover some ECT every year.
Here is a link to the testimony of Linda Andre, Director of the Committee for Truth in Psychiatry, before the New York State Assembly in 2001:
The Committee for Truth in Psychiatry is perhaps the oldest and largest “ECT survivors” group in the world.
Right on, Espiritu. It is silly to exclude ECT survivors from help, anymore than it makes sense to exclude anyone with a closed head injury from help.
Would you exclude someone who has had a stroke from help? I would just keep in mind that I might not be able to effect the normal, standard kind of result, but you would certainly be able to effect some improvement and help the person get some wins!
You may not be able to address and run out the ECT itself directly, but even then, you never know….. Just keep in mind there is actual physical organic damage involved.
but who determines what is a “quality outcome” and what is not?
Marty, The years pass. Is there really any hope of bringing down MissCabbage? Everyday I log on, hoping to see movement. There was Snow White… and then tax exemption. There was Deb Cook… and then mayors are giving welcome speeches to DM. Anonymous was gaining traction… and then more Ideal Orgs are opening. The abuses continue; their crimes continue. I wonder what the tipping point will be. It just can’t come fast enough.
Exactly so, chante. Today’s CoS is a mirror imagine of medicine and psychiatry in the USA in the 20th century and in some ways, as they are now still.
In one lecture, I’m sorry I can’t post the exact reference but it was from the mid-50s I believe, LRH said that his selection of “psychiatrists” as an “enemy” was to some extent arbitrary. I got the impression he was looking for a datum of comparable magnitude, and selected psychiatry over some other possible candidates to contrast Scientology with.
“Guns do not kill people……”
Roger, have you tried digestive enzyme supplements? In the USA there are two popular ones sold in any drugstore, Lactaid and Beano. It seems many people are deficient in the enzymes needed to digest cow’s milk, and some are deficient on the enzymes needed to digest beans.
I have a friend who can only eat pizza (cheese), if he takes Lactaid with it.
I personally sometimes use a “full spectrum” digestive enzyme supplement, especially if I eat a heavy or fatty meal. There are enzymes for the digestion of fats, sugars, proteins, etc and some supplements cover them all.
Tony, I have to agree with you and GH completely!
A brain is a computer, and relay station
for god’s sake, on a micro cellular level!
To, assume that such delicate electronic
impulses,and the tissue structures are somehow benefitted by nothing less
than electrocution, is distorted reasoning
Ask a computer designer / fundi if he
would accept sending an overload or
surcharge of voltage or current through
the works of a dis=functioning computer,
and he’d look at you as if you were daft!
That a brain CAN recover, from such
trauma, is testament to the body’s cap-
acity to survive and repair such gross
injury. A terrible and shocking eval.
has been made on the efficacy of
this barbaric treatment, by those
advocating it’s usage.
Of course, IMHO you are just simply
dealing with problems of communication
here, and in the body
THAT is what what one should be
striving to fix. with processes designed
to straighten out “those” aberrations.
Electocution? Not a very bright idea!
I have more or less the same experience. I could not buy the space opera. Now, years later, I compare this with the visions of prophets, coloured by a science fiction background.
Thanks for the great commentary and addition references, S.A. As so often you do, you came through with a response that is very anchored in purpose.
I could not remember which reference updated the VFP of Dept. 20 to Indispensability of Scientology, but well I remember the fact of it. I was not sure if that was ever published broadly.
CCHR was co-founded by Thomas Szasz. Antipsychiatry. He had similar viewpoint to LRH. He also worked at having homosexual accepted.
Scientology at this time was bold and courageous. Now, it’s horrible right wing viewpoint on everything in life.
Scientology is out-valence. It has become what it fought.
Just to be perfectly clear here, LRH
made the following assertions.
” ….problems are not solved by
avoiding communication, this just
puts the solution off a little further.
“…..more communication, not less,
is the route by which all problems
are addressed…eventually. and I
consider that after a quarter
century of pondering this problem,
we have this problem resolved.
summary per LRH;
” Communication is the universal solvent to all problems.”
( not exactly the quick – fix for
today’s impatient population. is it?)
Closing question for those advocating/
justifying the use of ECT;
Would you, in light of the all the info
available regarding this treatment,
willingly advocate such use on your
most dearly beloved?
I rest my case,
Calvin B. Duffield
WHAT???????????????? No ways, mate!!!!
love the potent chart info, BTW. IMPACT stuff
…..Bit like our Springbok front row! (taunt!!)
I think the RCS has made a few ‘friends’ in the priesthood too!!
I was always nervous of the 4 day all expenses trip Rev Richard Jackson took to LA without his family back in 2009 (Chichester diocese covers East Grinstead)
Rev Richard Jackson and Capt Gordon banks ‘Ride Out’ (or ‘Finding God’ through the Olympics & Benefits of Roman Evangelists)
Led by Diocesan head for Mission and Renewal Rev Richard J and Church Army Capt Gordon B the Petworth area Churches were hosts to a series of visits and sermons this weekend 17 June 2012, Richard leading the way on his Motorbike darting between Churches including St Mary Petworth, All Hallows Tillington, Duncton etc.
The sermon given by Capt banks at Tillington seemed to focus on the benefits of the Roman Empire.
Starting off describing how Jesus in his time and country, was surrounded by Evangelists proclaiming the growth and benefits of the expanding empire and nations coming under their control.
Capt Banks gave a short description of an ‘ideal’ world where there was no conflict, wars and all the population was ‘gentle’ (for this I think he meant subservient from the context it was given). This rings a bell from somewhere!!
A further topic was the definition of redemption of not just saying ‘sorry’ but doing a 180 degree turn.
He went on to say that the production of a Roman coin angered the Jews as it had a depiction of Caesar with the words ‘Son of God’ upon it.
He then went on to tell a story of Jesus Christ going head to head with Pontius Pilot resulting in the torture and death of Jesus, ending with Jesus’ body on the cross with a sign above ‘King of the Jews’, stating that was the end of that.(interestingly Capt Banks made NO mention of the subsequent Resurrection, normally considered somewhat important in Christianity!)
We then seemed to fast forward to the first Christian Martyr in Britain, a Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Alban) who had been converted to Christianity by a visiting Priest. Then changed clothes with the Priest to allow his escape, and was subsequently beheaded for his efforts!! (Christianity looking a dangerous pastime by now)
Capt Banks then went on to talk about ‘mustard seeds’ growing in secret until they turned into mighty mustard plants, I wasn’t sure if he was referring to Christianity or the Roman Empire at that point.
The Olympics were finally covered by a description of all us mere mortals being given the chance of watching those chosen by God to do battle in the arena, a brief description of the ‘light bearers’ travelling the highways of Britain carrying the Olympic flame, the ‘100 days of peace’ a tradition from ancient Greece to allow 50 days of safe travelling either side of the Olympics to allow access to the games (presumably the UK solution is the large armed presence and missile batteries on the roofs of domestic buildings to ensure same).
The sermon was ended by a prayer for all to keep the ‘Fire’ in their Hearts, (I prefer the Holy Spirit but maybe I am too traditional on that one).
On a separate topic I understand the new Bishop Elect for Chichester will be available for open discussion on the way he plans to take the Diocese forward at Midhurst on the 22 June 2012, maybe we can start rebuilding that Roman Empire from the ruins buried below Chichester Cathedral!!
All Hail Caesar (oops!!, looks like I got too much of that fire in my heart )
Hey Tooky, So why not then,……….hmm??
Wow, is this a “coming out” here, TH???
Big plus one
Brilliant Tara, and shows what a thoroughly
good job you have done, in prepp’ing them
for the rigours of an ever changing world
BTW, did you ever read “Miracles For Breakfast”
by Ruth Minshull? We used the references in
raising our own two daughters, and like you,
are thrilled to see their level of knowingness
and independence achieved.
NC fully get you on this one,and mirror your
appreciation for the ol’ man’s genius efforts
in getting the whole technology refined into
totally workable “standard technology.”
Unfortunately, nothing can be done for the
“brain dead” trolling through this sector.
(there’s no-one “home” to LOOK anymore!)
It is off-thread, but yes, this is the cat that stalked Silvia Kusada. To be clear — Tim HIggs IS the guy that harrassed and was very inappropriate with his comm to Silvia Kusada on many, many occasions. His manners were out, allegations untrue — he was a producer of pure entheta on her lines.
Bait and Badger. I think not.
Sapere Aude, Grasshoper,
Yes, this is all very good and informative and even educational but I can’t see how it will help prevent the general population from getting caught in the glitzy but deadly trapping web of David Miscavige’s own version of Scientology. Marty’s hard work to weed out the bullshit from what really works in Scientology is truly appreciated by many of us who KNOW the subject but I sense the effort to remove that maniac from his position of power is becoming less and less visible. I think it will take a long time for the general public to read and learn from Marty’s book (s) and after that, hopefully there will be many people who won’t come near Miscavige’s “Church”, but in the meantime, Teflon Miscavige will continue to rape people’s souls, minds and pockets while he laughs all the way to the bank!
Just expressing my opinion here.
I grant you that psychiatry’s attacks on Scientology were probably more a situation of the 50’s and 60’s than what’s happening in present time.
I don’t think psychiatry is attacking scientology in present time like they use to in the past probably because of a direct result LRH’s effective counter measures against it in years gone by.
David Miscavige may be treating the situation with psychiatry like it was back in the 50’s and 60’s in order to drum up donations in present time.
I don’t need any granting, thanks. You failed to answer my question:
“You noted “they were or still are *actively attacking Scientology”. Who are ‘they’? Names please.”
Leonore – I don’t believe many have ever seen this reference. Shortly after all of the RFO (really find out) survey tech was made confidential. For many years now it appears fully buried. I have not seen any RFO survey being done for over 20 years. The purpose of Dept 20 used to be something like – to expand Scientology orgs by establishing the Indispensability Scientology and creating a safe space into which orgs could expand. (at least that is the concept even if I don’t remember the wording exactly).
Now all we see is going into defence mode or attack mode – like a rabid skunk. All that is left is the robotic commands and an unthinking cold steel machine. Ah, but I see sunshine in the future….
Thank you for the excellent link Valkov, it provides hard data on ECT that I have not seen elsewhere. I tried to visit some of the other links on the site from their newly designed home page, but incredibly, there is a notice from the site admin that the site was hacked and they are working to restore it.
I meant Psychiatry and Psychology in general. If you give me the *time* will try to find so examples their attacks publicly. You have to realize that I have other things to do with my day. I will try to find examples of this if you give me a chance.
Thank you Lawrence, I love you too. 🙂
“Tim Higgs” is not a handle name, it’s my real name. Proof of which is on my blog.
Tim, I do not know you but I did read the comm your wrote Silvia — and regardless of the reasons, it was inappropriate and very disparaging. I have no idea about the issues within the ranks but I know entheta comm when I read it. That is my definition of stalking.
No ‘chances’ needed. You’ve demonstrated that you are prone to authoritatively blow bullshit in an effort to impose views. Along with your literalness defense to the characterization of your attacks on Silvia being stalking, the Scn Inc. characteristics are stacking up.
I heard that one too. As I recall he mentions wanting some “randomity” if I recall correctly.
I had a friend ( who has since disconnected from me) whose wife was told by Flag while she was on Solo Nots that she needed to disconnect from her brother to stay on the Level. His crime?, He was married to a psychologist.
Blue Dog – Artwork of George Rodrigue. Love it (and have his permission to use it).
Calvin, I have not seen it. I will check it out. Raising kids without all the false data is really so much easier than otherwise. I’m always amazed at how easily they grasp truth, because of it.
Now Tony, you know he could have paid his way out of that… 😉
Yes I do !
But imagine that. trying to handle those troubles with auditing !!!!!!!!
Yes, I think that’s the one I have in mind, Tony.
You really are a STARA! Btw, copies are
available online, Brilliantly written in Ruth’s
easy style humour, and just includes all the
basics, that even a child can use to guide
their parents. Should just see my kids
admonishing me with a stern; ” Daaaad!!!
PDF in English available here:
Click to access miracles_for_breakfast.pdf
Also available in German, as well as the English, from this site, along with 2 other books by Ruth:
Like your post, Tony.
CofS is creating “allies” in various religions, but gets a lot of money for it’s anti-psych war. Selective approach.
Grasshopper, you are right to disbelieve. Here is an excerpt from Linda Andre’s testimony:
“ECT patients have been reporting permanent adverse memory and nonmemory cognitive effects ever since shock began in 1938. The nature and frequency of these reports has not changed in over 60 years. Let me explain that the so-called modifications of ECT have had no effect on these permanent adverse effects. You may have heard claims that oxygenation, muscle paralyzers, so-called brief pulse ECT, or unilateral ECT have solved the problems with memory loss and brain damage. But all of these modifications were in use by the 1950s, and none of them eliminated or minimized ECT’s effects on memory and on the brain. You may also have heard that today’s ECT uses “less electricity” than in the 50s, 60s, 70’s, and 80s. The opposite is true. Today’s ECT devices are the most powerful in history. Each new generation of machine is designed to put out more electricity than the one before it. This means, for example, that a person getting shocked today is probably getting more electricity through her brain than I did in 1984.
In the early decades of ECT, doctors were frank about sacrificing the brains, intellects, and careers of their patients in the hope of a temporary respite from depression. Since about 1975, the beginning of what I call the public relations era of ECT—-that is, the period when organized psychiatry decided to deny there was any problem with ECT itself in favor of claiming there was simply an image problem with ECT—they have attempted to deny or cover up memory loss and brain damage, just as they have stopped writing up ECT deaths.”
g, don’t forget Miscagage is the Pope of Scientology.It’s a bird, it’s a plane, it’s SUPER PRIEST.
BTW, I am not knocking priest, just Misgagige, when I say he is super priest – it’s another of his own ridiculous “self titles”. Very soon he will crown himself emperor.
Do you know Calvin Duffield of Durban, South Africa?
I forgot to say – Picanin, quite an interesting post. What you say has a lot of facts, and makes a lot of sense.
Libit, Your comment to iamvalkov and “well placed to make a lot of very valid and helpful comment, to us MERE [my emphasis] onlookers” – makes me say – waht you trin to do, dude?
Now, after this weird “compliment??” you want his email to get “I have been meaning to get your opinion….”
You already got OT working on your cartoons, now you working on iamvalkov.
I get it.
Libit – hot spots and no go areas. Where the whites “don’t go” is that what you are talking about?
Geez, Ronnie, I actually find it easier to
deal with the miscreants than some of our
privileged Scns on this site mate!!!
No laughter from me, Libit.
Hi Picanin, Youre right again.
You know Dorothy DUffield of Durban, South Africa – Crimanon counselor over the last 6 years?
“He also worked at having homosexual accepted.”
The Thetan wants what it wants doesn’t it.
Tony, I am back to give you bunch a fiesty debate on what’s what. David Miscavige is the Anti Freedom agent pur sang. Sue me you chicken, are you a man or a mouse David Miscavige ?
Wasn’t he a “student” of Freud meaning he studied the material.
Hubbard was keen on Psychiatry all right but not on it’s se to “straighten out” the ill-adapted. Personaly I think he had a few “Pshygological” dissaligments.
It was the misunderstanding of psychiatry that did that.
It was the believe in the Nazi doctors that was adopted by the American Pshycatrists of that day that made shock Therapy happen in the US
The Compulsion to Repeat the Trauma
Re-enactment, Revictimization, and Masochism
Bessel A. van der Kolk, MD*
During the formative years of contemporary psychiatry much attention was paid to the continuing role of past traumatic experiences on the current lives of people. Charcot, Janet, and Freud all noted that fragmented memories of traumatic events dominated the mental life of many of their patient and built their theories about the nature and treatment of psychopathology on this recognition. Janet75 thought that traumatic memories of traumatic events persist as unassimilated fixed ideas that act as foci for the development of alternate states of consciousness, including dissociative phenomena, such as fugue states, amnesias, and chronic states of helplessness and depression. Unbidden memories of the trauma may return as physical sensations, horrific images or nightmares, behavioral reenactments, or a combination of these. Janet showed how traumatized individuals become fixated on the trauma: difficulties in assimilating subsequent experiences as well. It is “as if their personality development has stopped at a certain point and cannot expand anymore by the addition or assimilation of new elements.”76 Freud independently came to similar conclusions.43,45 Initially, he thought all hysterical symptoms were caused by childhood sexual “seduction” of which unconscious memories were activated, when during adolescence, a person was exposed to situations reminiscent of the original trauma. The trauma permanently disturbed the capacity to deal with other challenges, and the victim who did not integrate the trauma was doomed to “repeat the repressed material as a contemporary experience in instead or . . . remembering it as something belonging to the past.”44 In this article, I will show how the trauma is repeated on behavioral, emotional, physiologic, and neuroendocrinologic levels, whose confluence explains the diversity of repetition phenomena.
I think psychiatry served as L Ron’s boogeyman just as the Indie movements now serves as Miscavidge’s boogeyman (or as part of the generalized COS conspiracy theory that includes the Independent Movement as a part of Psychiatry’s attacks and the New World Order, which I’ve heard rumors of). Cults need an enemy to bring the members together. That’s what we are.
From “The 48 Laws of Power”:
“Law 27: Play on People’s Need To Believe To Create a Cultlike Following
“Step 5: Set Up an Us-Versus-Them Dynamic. … To keep your followers united you must now do what all religions and belief systems have done: create an us-versus-them dynamic.
“First, make sure your followers believe they are part of an exclusive club, unified by a bond of common goals. Then, to strengthen this bond, manufacture the notion of a devious enemy out to ruin you. … Any outsider who tries to reveal the charlatan nature of your belief system can now be described as a member of this devious force.”
“If you have no enemies, invent one.”
It’s also strange that L. Ron chose psychiatry as an enemy since he “borrowed” so much in Dianetics from them.
“He had seen first hand the affects of psychiatry and psychology on the human spirit and knew that they held no answer to achieving the goals of a freed and civilized society.”
“Schroeder van der Kolk is regarded as the founder of Dutch psychiatry and neurology. This paper describes his vitalistic views on the relation between body and soul, as formulated by him in a series of lectures. These lectures were intended to counteract the materialistic tendencies of some of Schroeder van der Kolk’s French and German contemporaries. It is argued that Schroeder van der Kolk can be regarded as the transition in Holland from the “Naturphilosophie” approach to the modern experimental approach in physiology.”
The church of Scientology became an SP tisk tisk.
Dutch Psychiatrist are Social Pshychiatrists.
I do not aspect that you know what that means.
The people that live under the stairs
DAMN YOU ALL, MANAGERS ARE THE NEW PSYCHS, POLITICIANS ARE !
YOU BLIND FOOLS
Cornelius Anthonius Martens
I don’t see where LRH borrowed much of anything from psychiatry. What, for example, did you have in mind when you posted that?
If you seriously believe that LRH was not heavily attacked by the AMA from the beginning, I recommend you read some of the investigative journalism that has been done on how the AMA operated throughout the 20th century.
In the USA chiropractic boomed after it was proven in Federal Court that the American Medical Association had engaged in decades of suppression of chiropractors. Chiropractic had survived inspite of the medico’s efforts, but was marginalized and not covered by insurance.
A Federal Judge ruled in 1987 that the AMA had attempted to “eliminate chiropractic”:
For a lot of time, place, form and event on this case and the AMA’s history of actively suppressing and trying to wipe out alternative therapies, here’s a good book available for pennies from Amazon.
Incidentally, the AMA is probably the major reason why the USA does not have national health insurance.
The AMA spent many millions of dollars going back to the 1950s to defeat it. And were opposed to Medicare, too.
The Serpent on the Staff: The Unhealthy Politics of the American Medical Association by Howard Wolinsky and Tom Brune.
The authors were respected Chicago Sun-Times journalists.
From Library Journal
Chicago Sun Times reporters Wolinsky and Brune argue that what is good for the American Medical Association
(AMA) is not necessarily good for the public or its health. Since the AMA is a doctors’ organization, few
readers will be surprised by the authors’ revelations of conflicts of professional vs. public interests.
The authors provide an overview of the AMA, discussing its organization and membership and how it works;
its political “wheeling and dealing”; and some of its less altruistic actions regarding alternative (i.e., nonallopathic) medicines, Medicare, and the tobacco and drug industries and its ethical waverings on health issues such as abortion and AIDS. They write that “the AMA is a cheerleader for just enough reform to avoid a major overhaul” of the U.S. healthcare system. Recommended for healthcare and public policy collections.
James Swanton, Albert Einstein Coll. of Medicine, New York
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.
There is little reason to think the AMA did not go after LRH and Dianetics in the same way with the same “standard operating procedure” they had used on other practices they felt threatened by, as soon as LRH brought Dianetics to their attention.
I got a chuckle that part of that was labeling the practice they wanted to suppress, a “cult”. They did that with chiropractic as well.
In any case, space opera and past lives was labeled by LRH as “para-scientology”, not as scientology. None of that need be believed to use and provide benefit from scientology
hey tessa, if you’re into history of religions, have you read any of Elaine Pagels excellent books? She is a foremost scholar of early Christianity.
I heartily recommend her book “Beyond Belief”. It is short and very lively. She brings the early Christian times to life very well.
The reason I mention this book, is the parallels between the establishment of the Christian Church and the establishment of the Scientology Church are striking.
The CoS recapitulated several hundred years of Catholic history in less than 50 years, it seems to me.
“Modern psychiatry” in the USA has largely abandoned that viewpoint in favor of what they call “biological psychiatry”, in which problematic feelings, thoughts and behaviors are seen as caused by some fancied “chemical imbalances in the brain”, which they proceed to “treat” by the prescription of psychotropic drugs.
WH, this calls to mind Dr Hew Len and his way of practicing the Old Hawaiian discipline of ho’oponopono:
“What works ultimately, is when I realize that the world is within me, and that to change the world, I have to change it within myself.
I have to change whatever is going on in me (my memories), which requires taking 100% responsibility.
The Ho’oponopono process is: “I Love You; I am sorry; Please forgive me for whatever is going on in me that I perceive this in a certain way; Thank You.”, and allow The Divinity to do whatever, with NO expectations.
I have come to the realization that the world is what is going on in me.
When a “problem” comes up in my life, I say: “I Love You; I am sorry; Please forgive me for whatever is going on in me that is causing me to feel this pain; Thank You.”.
Built into the “I Love You” is the process of repentance and forgiveness, and that is my responsibility.
Divinity’s responsibility is to say: “I have heard you”, and then: “I am going to take care of that for you, and I am going to erase it when I feel it is right and perfect to ME to do so”.
My job is very simple: – I take 100% responsibility for whatever is going on in me, and Divinity will do whatever needs to be done.
If I knock, the door will open. If I ask, I will receive.”
He reportedly healed a ward full of criminally insane in a locked asylum by this practice.
I believe it is a question of evolution. There is no doubt that psychiatry and psychology have matured since the lobotomy days. And, there are so many branches of psychology and types of therapies that have emerged and are still emerging. Many without the use of drugs. And many on a grass-roots level, such as EMDR and even past life therapy. We are still learning and growing. The only thing that isn’t is the Church of $ci.
The brute force of dogma never succeeds over time. The founders of the Constitution knew that. They made room for wisdom. So should we all.
Maybe I will give him an email addy, just to see what happens…..
you can always shower thoroughly after doing that course……
Great post KarenB.
My perception of the1960s is that the “threat” posed by Scientology to someone, was duly noted and the wheels were put into motion to neutralize the “threat” of having an increasing number of free beings loose in the world.
There was a large upsurge of the “counterculture” date coincident of the release of the OT course around 1967. This included a lot of anti-war protests, draft resistance, and increasing scrutiny of the political machines at work in the USA and around the world, generally referred to as “the Establishment”.
Plans were made and carried out to neutralize or subvert this surge of theta activity. These plans were successful in many ways.
Spearheading this subversion were people like Timothy Leary and his promotionof LSD and the mantra “turn on, tune in, drop out”. This diverted or stopped a lot of the growing activism. A large segment of the activists were diverted into taking LSD and experimenting with other drugs which introverted them and did cause them to “drop out” of their activism.
LSD, DMT, MDMA, ‘shrooms, and other “psychedelic” drugs were deliberately released into the society and hailed as tools for increasing consciousness and awareness of spiritual states. By extension, and generalization, the idea that if these drugs were good, perhaps others like heroin were also OK.
Thus, taking drugs was turned from a bad thing to a good thing. Those times were the genesis of today’s mantra of “better living through chemistry”, and ideas that drugs like Prozac or Viagra “improved” one.
I would bet that whoever planned this campaign was fully aware that at the same time, it would create increasing numbers of “illegal pcs”, by their psychedelic drug use.
It was a control operation of some magnitude.
The anti Vietnam war activism was successful and the military draft was successfully eliminated for a time, although today it can be reactivated if the “powers that be” find it opportune to do so.
I was 20 years old in 1965, and that’s how I saw it then, and still see it as having happened that way.
Increase awareness was seen as a threat by some, and Scientology was definitely in there as having workable methods of increasing awareness quickly.
I think anyone who sees this as simply another “conspiracy theory” doesn’t know their history.
It parallels the establishment of Catholicism for example, by the gutting of 99% of the Gnostic elements out of Christian “scripture” and setting up a Pope and a Church as THE “authority” over most of the populace, putting nearly everyone else at Effect rather than at Cause.
Gnostic practices put one more at Cause and made one more aware of one’s spiritual nature and immortality. This was a distinct threat to the States of the time, because if one did not fear for one’s life, or could overcome that fear, one was no longer as eager to “render unto Caesar” at any cost.
Scientology is also “gnostic” in that sense, and the “powers that be” perceived it as a threat and acted to curtail it, as being part of the idealistic activism of the 1960s and 1970s.. Quite successfully in some ways, I think.
“Gnosis”, means, after all, “the experience of Knowing”.
So here we are, in 2012, bloodied, but not beaten.
That’s what “we come back” means to me. We can stare down the Tiger. Or as we used to say, “Keep on truckin’ “
Does anyone know YOU? …..of where exactly????
Calvin B. Duffield.
Yo Catman. 🙂
O.O “death” on the tone scale, very sad to
see how you feel you need to be experienced.
The truth is, that is indeed how you come
across on this blog. Devoid of life, of “soul”
You may be doing your homework for Li’ll
Dave, as it is showing very clearly under
your rather thin mask.(must fix that please!)
Tch…tch..I’m watching YOU. too ” death ”
Calvin B. Duffield
No, where the likes of you don’t have the
balls to go, little squirt! (O.O = “death”! )
Sad. that! ….bit like …..death, hey ? O.O ?
I know Stanley Hew Len; in fact was married to his x-wife (now mine as well), and helped at raising his 2 daughters for a few years. His ability to translate his philosophy into the practice of real life- especially for his family- left more than a bit to be desired. Lots of amazing stories were attributed to him- none of which did he ever relate to me or his family, nor could any real specifics about time, place, or people involved ever be verified. Not nearly as dynamic as LRH, there are likely some parallels there.
But there’s method to your madness!
If you pretend you’re ….dead (O.O)
….then mebbe li’ll dave will not notice (you, “death”) and target someone.who
IS still showing signs of life, death!?
BTW, hope you’re enjoying your life
under li’ll dave, death?
That would be a good trick, wouldn’t it?
Homework for li’ll dave sucks, O.O (death)
Marty emailed confirmation of odd Sermon content along with article including picture of Rev Jackson on his new Harley Davison (think he was so envious of DM’s & TC’s he got his own! 🙂 ) to your howdoesit.. address
“Anyone who seeks to help others – whether by means of religion or by means of medicine – must eschew the use of force. I am not aware of any antipsychiatrist who has agreed with this principle or abided by this limitation. Subsuming my work under the rubric of antipsychiatry betrays and negates it just as effectively and surely as subsuming it under the rubric of psychiatry. My writings form no part of either psychiatry or antipsychiatry and belong to neither. They belong to conceptual analysis, social-political criticism, civil liberties, and common sense. This is why I rejected, and continue to reject, psychiatry and antipsychiatry with equal vigor. ” – Thomas Szasz – co-founder, Citizens Commission on Human Rights
It’s not good, no matter how it gets re-packaged.
Electric shocking people is suppressive, destructive barbarism that crushes the being down.
Maybe even to the point of propitiation and saying “yeah, I feel better”.
The solution is always to face the past.
You can’t have depression without oppression.
Picanin, we have a rather smelly troll
between us ( O.O = dead! ) What say
we call in the “vulture culture.” They have more use for it, surely? Since all it’s accomplishing is just leaving a bad stink around here.
Thanks(JW). It is always good to get more data. Apparently he has a Hawaiian name as well as going by “Stanley”. I know nothing about him except the apocryphal story about the criminally insane. And that
ho’oponopono is indeed an old Polynesian healing practice.
As for ex-wives and children, LRH had some ex-wives who spoke ill of him, as well as a child or 2 who did so also.
I would bet on LRH before anyone else I have ever heard of, to indicate a way out.
WH’s post about living from “inside out” reminded me of the ho’oponopono/Hew Len story I had read. Here it is:
Haleakala’, meaning “House of the rising sun” is the Hawaiian name he uses, which he borrowed not from the song, but from main volcano on Maui. For obvious reasons, his family- at least the one’s I knew- just called him “Stan”. And I was basing my comments more on personal interactions I had with him, rather than hear-say.
I’m not at all trying to say that he was a fraud, or even a not so nice guy, and I will certainly acknowledge the situation – x-wife remarried to some white guy who’s now raising your kids- did lend itself to a bit of social strain. My point, I guess, was that how a person who steps into the role of “spiritual mentor” is perceived by those finding value, or even enlightenment, in his words, is sometimes very different from how those closest to him personally might view him. And I’m sure LRH endured some of that same phenomena. Also, of course, is the fact that a truth uttered by a fool, a drunk, or a scoundrel, is still a truth; it is up to each of us to make of it what we can.
As to Ho’oponopono, it is indeed an ancient Hawaiian practice for healing family and tribal compatibility issues, and it is a very cool and spiritual address. Like many practices of indigenous peoples, it comes from a very “centered” and “grounded” perspective. It does what Scn 2d & 3d un-metered and non-rote handling should do, and would do, if applied properly.
Please enlighten me as to why you think Picanin should know me?
or any one else living in Durban South Africa. If you are seeking
data on me, come right out and ask ME, that is the right thing to do.
The 1.1 tactic does not go down very well, and NO Picanin does
not know me.
Dorothy : EX Criminon counsellor.
Here you go:
Correctly indicated, as you have done so succinctly Valkov, sans the embroidered
additives that somehow always end up getting into mix.
Q; “Duh? Does dat mean I have to dooplicate
dis stuff in order to unnerstan’ it, Huh ?”
A ; “…..’fraid so….compatriot. otherwise may
…….stay bogged down by a coupla nasty mooz!” …….(m/u’s.)
Say Valkov , how about that e-mail addy?
This is exactly right. Psychology and psychiatry are sciences, so they prove themselves wrong, discover new ideas and become better. Scientology is a pseudoscience. It needs to be right, always, so it doesn’t get better.
“In any case, space opera and past lives was labeled by LRH as “para-scientology”, not as scientology.”
Back in the days of LRH, it was routine for things to be changed, revised, withdrawn, modified or clarified based on proven workability. There are numerous examples.
Since then, it has been forbidden. And the organization has been convulsing into its final death throes as a result. Janet Reitman astutely observed in her book that if the church doesnt change it is dead, and I believe she is right.
The church will continue to try to enforce policies and practices that are socially unconscionable (let alone unworkable).
Take for example, perhaps the most obnoxious — the practice of disconnection. The RCS will NOT change this practice. There are a number of reasons for this, but one is certainly that Miscavige is convinced that this a way of controlling his flock of clubbed seals. But like the segregationists of the last century and the slave masters of the century before, the more they stubbornly cling to their unworkable and inhumane practices, the more their flock and society as a whole rise up to oppose them. It’s a practice that cannot be justified, and rather than keeping Miscavige in control, it will be in large measure the reason he ultimately loses ALL control.
I have said a number of times here that I believe the protection of the subject of Scientology lies in the free market of ideas. When the public has a choice, the forces of the free market refine what is provided. It is a constantly correcting force. LRH said that organizations and civilizations do not endure because of a lack of Qual correction. That function located within the RCS is a joke. When LRH was around, he wore that hat as he had the humility of self-reflection. He announced to the world how he had been proven wrong on many occasions and then set about revising/correcting what had been wrong. Lacking someone like him at the top — and believe me, Miscavige is definitely NOT like that, he has never been wrong in his life — the organization is doomed. And that is the single thing Miscavige has proved to be right about in spades.
PS: Hope to see you again someday….
Got it (JW), thanks again.
I was out of line Calvin. My apologies… for going off on a bank button… if near and dear to me. Perhaps I’ve been too relegated to bullshit from time to time. But no justification, again, my apology.
You did what you did Higgs, on several occasion. Much of which is still available on Silvia’s blog.
Try this one, L-Bit:
OK jas1, big foot bullet there, posting a page which itemizes many of the credits LRH gave to prior studies and prior researchers. Posting Jon Atack’s quotes and opinions is not DOX in my book. We’ve come a long way since then, and there have been many posts on this blog exploring those issues.
I am assuming a “slant” on your part, by your use of quotation marks around the word “borrowed”. This leads me to believe you used “borrowed” as an euphemism for some other concept. Why be cute about it? Why not post what you really meant?
Anyway, I get where you’re coming from, and it’s not worth my time commenting on what Atack wrote, which I have read much of before. Unlike you, he at least was a Scientologist for a good while, and knew a lot of the subject. He obviously had a severe falling out with management somewhere along the line!
In my view, you failed to DOX that LRH borrowed anything from “psychiatry”, because Freud was not a psychiatrist to begin with. He was a researcher who came to be viewed as the founder of psychoanalysis, which is not the same as psychiatry.
What seems key to me here, is the vast difference between Freud and LRH in developing practical, workable methods. As Atack points out, Freud abandoned “abreaction therapy”; he didn’t or couldn’t make it work. LRH developed and refined detailed methods of making it work and also how to train people to do it. That was light-years ahead of Freud right there.
The issue of “borrowing” ideas is a red herring. Ideas and theories are not patented. Who did Freud “borrow” ideas from? Who did Buddha “borrow” ideas from? Who did the great Sufi philosophers and practitioners “borrow” ideas and practices from? These are b.s. questions.
Is Eric Berne the “source” of Transactional Analysis? Of course he is. He assembled the theory and practice from various sources and added his own original thinking. No one else put it all together in quite the way he did, Is Carl Jung the “source”of Jungian analysis? Of course he is. You can think of it as a brand, if you wish.
You post about LRH borrowing or plagiarizing or stealing ideas from others, and for DOX you post a page by Jon Atack. How original is that??
Perhaps other responders here will be kinder than I towards you. Perhaps you are basically sincere, and continuing your studies, will arrive at a place from which you will have something to say. But you’re definitely not there yet. You ought to be asking questions instead of making sidewise assertions you can’t support.
Go (and study) in peace.
Valid points well stated, IAMVALKOV.
The big question here is, what do you mean by “scientology”? You don’t seem to distinguish between the subject and it’s practitioners at all.
The subject of scientology is not a pseudoscience, whatever you mean by that. There are roughly 3 categories of things that you may be referring to, when you say “scientology”. 1. The philosophy 2. The applications (tech) 3. The organizations that people have created around the philosophy and the tech(practical applications). There are actually a lot of these kind of organizations, and they are not much alike, from one to the next.
The practical applications were developed just as you say psychology and psychiatry develop – through trial and error, winnowing out what didn’t work, or didn’t work as well, and keeping what worked better. That’s why LRH called it a “workable technology”. That is “standard tech” and is what KSW refers to. I worked in psychiatry with psychiatrists for about 13 years. Scientology applications are every bit as “scientific” as any applications of the psych fields you mention. If you think otherwise, you don’t know much about clinical psychology or clinical psychiatry, either.
The philosophy is contains in LRH’s lectures and many of his books. He was not shy about expressing his opinions on things. It appears from your posts you have not listened to very many of his lectures, if any. Otherwise I wouldn’t have to be doing this Reader’s Digest type outline for you. The philosophy is wide ranging and can be applied by anyone in any way they see fit to do.
The organizations are not limited to the Church of Scientology. Evidently when you refer to rigidity, you must be talking about that. But even then I must point out that philosophies have no “needs” to be right or to eat or sleep etc. It is only some people who may have a need to be right, who become dogmatic and refuse to change or improve. That pretty much describes many of the people left in the CoS today. A lot of the flexible, undogmatic people who are willing to change and think for themselves, like Marty, Mike Rinder, and the others who post on this blog, have left the CoS precisely because of it’s “need to be right at any cost” and it’s refusal to “get better”. Although if you would read this blog, you might see that those issues are only the tip of the iceberg.
There are many other groups around the world that are based on the philosophy and the applications that are quite different from the CoS. They can also be referred to as parts of the world of “scientology”.
So why are you posting here, if you are so unfamiliar with the nuts-and- bolts of it all?
Go (and study) in peace. Come back when you can at least tell the difference between the philosophy, the practical applications, and the organizations of “scientology”.
Thanks (JW). I used to be just plain Valkov, then WordPress went through some kind of evolution and I had to re-register and now “IAM”.
Anyway, I don’t understand why some of these people even post here, expressing opinions about a subject they have not studied even a bit?
It’s worth noting one of the references for this – it’s the new “Golden” edition of the Creation of Human Ability (COHA), page 284 there is a section titled “Para-Scientology”.
LRH briefly describes “Scientology” as consisting only of those things we can be certain of, and that Para-scientology “is that large bin which includes all greater or lesser uncertainties.” Interestingly, he goes on to say, “Some of the classified bodies of data which fall in Para-scientology are: Dianetics, incidents on the whole track, the immortality of Man, the existenceof God, engrams containing pain and unconsciousness and yet all perception, prenatals, Clears, character and many other things which, even when closely and minutely observed, stilll arenot certainthings to those who observe them.”
He defines Para-scientolgy as containing “the questionable things, the things of which the common normal observer cannot be sure with a little study.”
There is also a lecture which in it’s Classics version is titled something like “Para-scientology – ghost, goblins, and things that go Boomp! in the Night”
Given April 20 1955 I believe.
Apology conditionally accepted ( Ronnie S. ??)
WH, Hope you’re doing better, as of now, and
that you’re as excited as most of us with what’s
about to play out per the release of Marty’s
Just for clarity,I certainly don’t have time for
an eetie thweetie approach when dealing with the thugs mentioned. More like ” in your face, wake up call ” comm. They get it!
They really aren’t as bad as some people
make out, and my wife has tons of hands on
experience dealing with hardened criminals and knows how to gain their confidence & respect!
The biggest single mistake one can make
is to allow yourself to be intimidated.
followed by any manifestation of fear.
Then you’re toast. Keep in mind that gangs
have leaders, and these individuals call the
shots, so those are the ones, to target as
the terminal for “resolutions”
Of course there’s always danger, so you need
to be prepared.
Great times ahead, WH!
Ok, Valkov, then. As to “Why people…”, you’ve surely witnessed before that there’s lots of folks out there that just like to hear themselves speak- and even better if the words are laid down in some form that conveys a sense of perpetuity to them. Additionally, it makes ’em feel they’re part of the “In crowd”, who have been there and done that, and have the battle scars to show for it. Valor by association, in other words.
WH and Brian, “living from the inside out” is also one of Stephen R.Covey’s principles, he of “7 Habits of Highly Effective People” fame.
Another one that rang a bell for me is “Everything is created twice – first in your mind, then in the real world.”
Covey collected and assembled some timeless truths, developed some applications of them, and set them down in writing, but he also focused on marketing fairly expensive seminars to executive types, thus pricing them out of reach of the more common wage-earner. His books are pretty good, though.
Right on. I had high hopes for that, back in the 1970s. It can be done.
WindWalker, I think it is an electronic incident, can’t help but be, but some of it’s “effectiveness” might be partly based on the actual brain damage that it does. Some researchers have speculated that it is effectively a “closed head injury or “TBI” (traumatic brain injury). TBIs sometimes result in the person experiencing euphoria for some period of time.
I speculate that another factor might be that the electric shock might erase some of the facsimiles that at that moment are located in the same space as the part of the brain the electricity passes through. In such a case, if the source of the “depression” was actually a key-in of a heavy incident, the facsimiles of that incident could be erased by the current. The depression would not recur because it would be part of the “memory loss”, if you follow what I mean. WH, that could account for your friend’s
“loss” of her depression.
But usually the depression does return, so it’s obviously very hit or miss, a matter of chance whether the person will feel better or not, and for how long. Would you trade your depression for a TBI and memory loss plus some other cognitive impairments? Some desperate people evidently do – but they are not aware of any alternative.
Shoot me an em if you wish.
Psychology is not viewed by universities as a science. I got both my BA and Masters Degrees in Psychology from the School of Arts. Not considered exact or scientific enough to be considered a science. Much more value to the audi8tor certs I got after leaving the university. Psychiatry is considered a science as one has to be a medical doctor.
I take Ritalin, its a bit like do you really really benifit by it. Like pills for hay favor. Most of the outbrst i have that are Redacted out on this blog are caused by my random uncontrolled impulsive behavior.
I am not against pills, I do see that the nazi’s ad to much influance on american psycholagy.
I do have an inbalance in my brain and it is visable on an MRI scan
don’t worry I am not going to electrify you
Hello mr kingpin, never give up the fight.
I got my Biologcal Science degree from a College of Arts, as well. I think you are reading more meaning into whether you get you degree from a College of Arts or Science than is justifiable.
I’m not aware of any study that LRH performed that is structured in a scientific way, so I’d also be careful of putting down Psychology as “unscientific”-as it apparently is what LRH based Dianetic upon:
You’re right about that. Although many aspects of psychology meet the rigors of the scientific method, psychoanalysis definitely doesn’t meet that standard 90% of the time.
To answer your question, by pseudoscience I mean a subject which pretends to be a science but really isn’t.
Definition of pseudoscience:
“a discipline or approach that pretends to be or has a close resemblance to science” source: Dictionary.com
If you’re interested in further understanding the difference between science vs pseudoscience and why pseudosciences are harmful human progress, a great book to read is “The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark” by Carl Sagan. In this book, Carl Sagan discusses Scientology as well as other pseudosciences throughout human history such as psychoanalysis, witchcraft, astrology, et al.
“The chief characteristic which distinguishes a scientific method of inquiry from other methods of acquiring knowledge is that scientists seek to let reality speak for itself, supporting a theory when a theory’s predictions are confirmed and challenging a theory when its predictions prove false.”
We’ll take just one example that displays why Scientology and Dianetics did not follow this the Scientific Method:
LRH claimed the state of Clear was obtainable in 1950. He described it in great detail in the book Dianetics. It wasn’t described as a theoretical state of what one could possibly be like without the reactive mind. It was a detailed description of what was purportedly being attained. Even the removal of the reactive mind wasn’t described as something theoretically possible. It was sold to the public as a fact.
Yet if you listen to LRH lectures for many years later, he’s still trying to make Clears. He was chasing the illusory state that he had described as a fact many years before. Put into the words of the Wikipedia quote above, he didn’t “let reality speak for itself”. He “supported a theory before the theory’s predictions were confirmed”.
By claiming people could reach the state of Clear through Dianetics without any actual proof that this was a reproducible state (or even producible just once) is not scientific. It then took over a decade before “Clears” were finally being produced (according to LRH and without any objective testing), but even those Clears were never tested to see if they met the standards of LRH’s descriptions in Dianetics.
When have any of LRH’s claims for the results of any processes been tested and proven with any objective studies?
If Scientology and Dianetics were sciences, all of the claims would have been verified in objective studies before being advertised to the public. Those studies would be published and available for peer review. That’s the way science works. If LRH were a scientist, he would have been inviting the psychiatrists to prove his studies wrong.
Within Scientology there has always been enough funding and no lack of willing subjects for these studies! But the fact these studies weren’t done before charging tens of thousands of dollars for services is an indication of the motive that was driving “research”.
I say “borrow” because when you use something without referencing the source, it’s normally called “plagiarism”.
Besides a generalized one-sentence acknowledgment to all of the world’s great thinkers, LRH fails to reference his exact sources for his methods and theories. He definitely doesn’t source any individual studies done that prove his theories and methods (whether his own studies or those of others).
Yet even you acknowledge that much of what he wrote came from other sources. He does this and then he calls himself Source, and prohibits any change or improvement on what he’s written. This isn’t how science works. No wonder the scientific community rejected him!
There is a certain degree of humility necessary in participating in the scientific field. It comes along with viewing oneself as part of the overall progress of mankind and not as the sole savior of mankind.
Good to hear from you. 🙂
I completely agree. Especially this:
“It’s a practice that cannot be justified, and rather than keeping Miscavige in control, it will be in large measure the reason he ultimately loses ALL control.”
They’re holding on to theories and methods that have been proven unworkable and false and their inability to evolve is destroying them. The Indie movement is the mutant strain that will inevitably replace them.
Thank you iamvalkov!
In the realm of spiritual practice, the practitioner determines the quality of outcome: happiness, more benevolent power, love, realization etc etc
Saying that past lives, space opera, souls leaving bodies is para(beyond) Scientology is a bit laughable folks.
Sometimes the truth is painfully simple. Ouch
I don’t get your point, Brian.
Study the references Valkov provided and get the distinction of Scientology compared with Para-Scientology.
Para Scientology vs. Not Para Scientology
Scientology is about leaving the body consciously, having soul intention power, being able to create with will, going back to basic basic in other lives and this one.
Their are rundowns to help produce these things. Those rundowns are called Scientology processes. It IS Scientology.
These things are not “para” (beyond) Scientology.
It’s like saying the ressurection is “Para(beyond) Christianity. The ressurection is essential to Christianity.
As is space opera, leaving bodies etc essential to Scientology church doctrine and practice.
Not necessarily fully so – see my book.
I got your point,
however, LRH himslf described Para-Scientology in the above mentioned references.
Even the ARC Triangle is para-scientological material as long as the person didn’t experience / observe / grasp the concept.
Thus: Teach Scientology so it can be grasped at the reciept point.
David Miscavige failed to make this distinction in his TV interview back in the early 90’s. He couldn’t handle the interviewer. Epic failure.
Scientology is knowing how to know.
If you know the ARC Triangle is existent, than there you go. Apply it. If you just read about it without further inspection, you’ll become a glibby student. Literarism stem from not allowing the student to observe, to study, to make his own decisions about the data he learns.
I really recommend you listen to LRHs Lecture “Para-Scientology”.
I would give you a quote, but unfortunatley I have only a german copy of this lecture.
This is one of the best Lectures you can give someone in order to introduce him into Scientology so that he understands, that there is no value in Scientology unless he himself adds observation to his studies.