By Maya Angelou

A hater is someone who is jealous and envious and spends all their time trying to make you look small so they can look tall. They are very negative people to say the least. Nothing is ever good enough! When you make your mark, you will always attract some haters…That’s why you have to be careful with whom you share your blessings and your dreams, because some folk can’t handle seeing you blessed…

It’s dangerous to be like somebody else…

If God wanted you to be like somebody else, He would have given you what He gave them! Right? You never know what people have  gone through to get what they have.

The problem I have with haters is that they see my glory, but they don’t know my story… If the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence, you can rest assured that the water bill is higher there too!

We’ve all got some haters among us!  People envy you because you can:

Have a relationship with God

Light up a room when you walk in

Start your own business

Tell a man / woman to hit the curb (if he / she isn’t about the right thing)

Raise your children without both parents being in the home

Haters can’t stand to see you happy, Haters will never want to see you succeed, Haters never want you to get the victory, most of our haters are people who are supposed to be on our side. How do you handle your undercover haters?

You can handle these haters by:

1. Knowing who you are &  who your true friends are *(VERY IMPORTANT!!) 2. Having a purpose to your life? Purpose does not mean having a job. You can have a job and still be unfulfilled. A purpose is having a clear sense of what God has called you to be. Your purpose is not defined by what others think about you. 3. By remembering what you have is by divine prerogative and not human manipulation. Fulfill your dreams!

You only have one life to live…when it’s your time to leave this earth, you ‘want’ to be able to say, ‘I’ve lived my life and fulfilled ‘my’ dreams,… Now I’m ready to go HOME! When God gives you favor, you can tell your haters, Don’t look at me…Look at Who is in charge of me…’

Maya Angelou

154 responses to “Haters

  1. One of my favorite human beings and one of the wisest!

    The other thing about haters is that they encourage us to hate back and/or to hate others. (you know, as haters point to others who they say are not like you) Don’t fall into that trap. It’s a hard one to climb out of.

    PS “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings” — probably THE best autobiography I’ve ever read.

  2. Yvonne Schick

    Thank you for quoting, Maya Angelou. She is a very enlightened being with a tremendous gift for communicating truth.

  3. This is great, Maya.

    Thanks for sharing. As I’ve been to two funerals in the past two weeks, one of them just hours ago and still very fresh in my mind (parents of my friends passing on), I have a present time reality on, well…..passing on. And on what one should do with their life before they die.

    Your words ring true.


  4. Very true. There are some people who could see you walk on water and their only comment would be “the jerk is going to get the floor wet.”

  5. Thank you for that post! Having a difficult time and remembering those words will help me keep things in perspective.

  6. Interesting post Marty. I am reading ‘Love Without Conditions’ by Paul Ferrini which relates to this thread. When reading the previous post on the delivery in Toronto I had an alert moment when a fellow called ‘Party Hat’ commented on your success. Seems like a hater unless I totally missed it!

  7. Amen Sister A

  8. Dear Maya,

    Thank you for sharing your concept of God, Jehovah, Yaweeh, Allah, the Force, Truth, Spirit, the Supreme Being, the Eighth Dynamic, this wonderful and real dichotomy existing beyond the possible definition by mere words with all of us…….
    …..I agree that there is NO HATE in God, only LOVE.

  9. Newcomer: I find that it’s usually best to ASK a suspected hater — hey, what didcha mean by that? Rather than pointing out to others that the suspected hater might be one.

    Not everyone communicates as clearly as others. When in doubt, ask.

    That tends to clear things up. Haters are unable to hide for too long. Just keep asking. Eventually the hater himself will say — I hate you and everyone like you.


  10. Sage advice Christine. Thanks!

  11. I didn’t know that Dr Maya Angelou knew David Miscavige!

  12. Jean-François Genest

    Nice post. Maya Angelou is a remarkable lady Θ

  13. Jean-François Genest

    To those who may not know Mrs. Angelou, these links give good info:

  14. Li'll bit of stuff

    Beautiful and enduring reminder of THETA!

  15. I believe LRH said that “Invitations to hate are one of the primary traps on the track.”

  16. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    Very good post here.
    Plus, I’m still feeling good from yesterdays post of the success story in Toronto. And thanks Marty for posting that success story from Toronto and also posting Chris Black’s profile (link to his website). I really shared in the PC’s wins and the auditor’s wins.

  17. I brought up my children to realize that ‘hating’ another hurts yourself; it is the ‘hater’ who suffers those horrible feelings of hate, not the other person who may not even know they are being hated. It’s a waste of time.

  18. Well put, Christine!

  19. Words of wisdom from a lovely woman who lives by what she says.

  20. Hang in there baby.

  21. I would like to comment on Scientology in general. I am a member of the general public, I have watched Scientolgy and I have always thought it is a cult, and I still believe it is. The thing I am thinking is that no organized anything can bring you to your ultimate experience. Me, I am here now to mine own self and I believe in travelling outside of the body, you don’t need anyone to help you do that. I do have one thing to say though, with Sandy, how come Tom Cruise is not out there doing everything, since he’s apparently the only one who can do anything, when no one else can.. etc.

  22. While I am not particularly a believer in a supreme being, Ms. Angelou has a lot of wisdom to share, and practical wisdom too, and your post is a fine example of this.

  23. And if the haters ever get to you. Just remember , all that was made possible for all of us, because of the love.

  24. Haters or truth tellers. Sometimes they are are to tell apart.

  25. This post sums things up perfectly!

    I think we all have what someone else might consider a negative quality or 2. Sometimes it takes strength to step back and look at the whole picture of a person and sometimes the whole picture is beautiful!

  26. Having NO REGRETS. That is what this post reminds me. I think the vast majority of posters here who were at one time staff or supporters of the “church” have some failed purpose. I also see the blossoming Independent movement and delivery as one means to help remedy that. There are of course other means. But if a person is only as valuable as he/she can help others, initiating or supporting any tech delivery takes one farther down that road. This is opportunity knocking.

  27. TroubleShooter, Gayle

    I love the way that life can communicate to iteself. I needed to hear these words today and there they were.

  28. Maya’s life is a testament to the fact that truth can be discovered by anyone who observes and confronts the world around them. Maya’s power of observation in the face of adversity is awe inspiring. She delivers her discoveries with such eloquent prose that it surely has uplifted many, many souls in her lifetime. At 84 years, she continues to leave her mark on this world, for which we are all grateful. However, her words and advice will live on forever… a true kindred spirit to those seeking to make the world a better place than they found it. See her here:


  29. Thank you for posting these links. Also, one can try wikipedia … you’ll see Maya Angelou didn’t have the kind of beginning that would necessarily lead one to think she’d become the icon she is today.

    Sexually abused by one of her mother’s boyfriends at a very young age, she didn’t speak after telling a relative about that abuse because the man was subsequently murdered. She thought, as a child might, that her speech killed him.

    Later, in rough circumstances she was a prostitute – forced into the role by a domineering lover.

    Maya lives her words. For she has never seemed to regret a moment of her life – always taking the richness of experience to continue to shape her relationship with herself, her god and others.

    Whether or not one believes in god – I believe we all can agree that we believe in something a bit more than who we are today. Even IF that something is ourselves as our best selves, yet to come.

    Marty – thank you so much for posting this.

    And those who haven’t read her first “autobiography” “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings” – it’s wonderful. Read like a novel – a poetic lyrical exciting and oh my god story.


  30. Rosalie Hamilton

    When I was a young girl in a small city off the beaten track in Texas, books brought the world to me and played a significant part in making me who I am today. One of the top five books I credit as changing me forever is, “I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings,” by Maya Angelou. At that time I had never met a black person. The setting was, of course, her world, which was painfully black because of the times, but the themes that shaped her are all of ours, in various ways. It is an important story as well as a fascinating read. Maya Angelou is a phenomenal person who has influenced millions of people with the effects she has created.

  31. Love the write up very to the point without any via’s Great !

  32. Possibly my favorite post ever on this blog.

    and yes WH — I love that book!!!!!

  33. Patty — I read ESMB regularly. (and read your post of 7AM this morning wondering if Marty would post what you wrote above). I often find several of my old friends from CCLA mentioned (like Tory mentioning John Dries today).

    In any case, I’m a bit confused by your post IN LIGHT of the fact that you posted on ESMB about whether your post would be allowed.

    Therefore I have these three questions which would be great if you were to answer.

    Why do you think Marty posted this by Maya Angelou about Haters?

    Do you think he was addressing the anti-LRH, Marty, Indie critics as some are already positing on ESBM.

    And lastly — do you think of yourself as a truth teller or a hater.

    Sometimes it’s hard to tell 🙂


  34. I like this post Marty.
    ” Still I Rise” by Maya Angelou resonates with me
    Oil wells pumping in my living room or Gold mines in my backyard
    Good work Cowboy !

  35. Hating others usually indicates hatred of self.

  36. I love that you posted this.

    Had no idea who Maya Angelou is. Now I’m finding out.

  37. The problem with the use of labels is that they keep you from being able to differentiate – to discern identities, similarities, and differences.

    Labeling and Mislabeling is one of the “Cognitive Distortions”.

    In the past, Marty has labeled anyone who criticized him, his friends, or L. Ron Hubbard, as “haters”. This keeps him from seeing things that others see in him but which he does not see in himself. Criticism is most often done not out of “hate” at all, but out of something far more constructive.

    An individual needs to confront, to listen to, and to understand the viewpoints of others, even when those viewpoints are ones with which he may presently disagree. It is an important way for one to grow as a human being.

    The use of the label “haters” on this blog has been a divisive and destructive cognitive distortion which could be dropped with great benefit to all. You don’t have to adopt every criticism anyone has ever given to you, but you should work to be able to confront a criticism, and to understand it, without demonizing the other person as a “hater”.

    Here’s the list of cognitive distortions. They are extremely useful to learn.



  38. Many of Marty’s posts are posted about at ESMB, mainly by Marty supporters. Patti posted about this one is no different. Marty has made it clear in several instances that he thinks ESMB and it’s members are a bunch of haters. It’s why he doesn’t comment over there any more.

    It is sometimes hard to differentiate between what is perceived as hate and what one thinks of as hate. Lumping everything considered critical as hate without full inspection is ignorance. Steve Hall had much hate going on about the APIS and FZ until he got into communication with Michael Moore and got further information on what is actually happening and has been happening for many years in the field that Hall was not privy to. And because of this exchange of communication, the animosity dispersed. So hate, in itself, is a perception usually based upon misinformation, misunderstanding and evil purposes. And just calling haters haters does nothing to resolve issues and make the perceived hate go away. You all believe in ARC so I’m not talking something new here. Truth is truth and when one goes for that in situations where there is conflict and animosity, one will find that there is much nmore to be gained that walking away from things and people and forums labeled ‘haters’.
    There are many good people at ESMB and they take offense at being unjustifiably lumped into a term called ‘haters’. If only 2.5% of the populous are considered SPs by Hubbard, then 97.5% of the people can’t all be that bad. The most important thing people leaving Scientology get back is the right to think independently and to see the truth about thinks they have not inspected in the past. To label people ‘haters’ because they don’t agree on things you or others believe is wrong. We should be celebrating the freedom to believe as we like, not as we are told.

  39. Ms. Angelou’s advice, to me, would seem to be to simply not take part in any “it takes two to tango” situations, setting others up as enemies, pushing back. That’s what I get out of it. Simply be there, and do anything else but be there comfortably and carry on loving life. So far it’s worked for me.

    thank you for sharing Marty.

  40. AMEN!!!!!

  41. Thank you Mary.

    It was Patty who posted initially at ESMB “Marty is trying to position his critics as haters”

    However, Type4_PTS sagely said he wasn’t sure what was going through Marty’s head when he posted quoting Maya about Haters.

    And then you over at ESMB posting as AnonMary said what you just posted here.

    It appears to me that ESMB (those who have posted there) have the opinion that this was posted by Marty as a thought stopping technique regarding his critics. That could be. But …

    I didn’t see it that way. I saw this post as a MEANS by which to say:

    1) We. Are. All. In. This. Together

    2) Haters are dangerous to be around. Jesus said the same thing but loves them nonetheless. Buddha said the same thing and said – walk by yourself rather than with a hater etc etc

    3) I had been reading ESMB well before 2009 when I started reading and eventually posting on Marty’s blog as Windhorse (now windhorsegallery due to a wordpress quirk). Before that I was reading alt-scientology.com and WELL BEFORE THAT going to the public library in Clearwater AS A SEA ORG MEMBER checking the periodical index for articles about Scientology, LRH and Dianetics. (circa 1975-1980). In other words — working through stuff myself.

    4) I TRY hard to NEVER assume the motives of someones speech. I try even HARDER not to assume the motives in their mind.

    It’s easiest to see the motives of someone’s actions but best to view over a long course of time. And even then cautiously.

    I DO however watch what Marty posts about and the books he recommends. Having studied Ken Wilber at some length I would venture to say — anyone who recommends Ken isn’t prone to hating.

    Marty might have called ESMB a bunch of haters — I don’t recall. Didn’t influence my thinking. Doubtful it influenced many others in their analysis of ESMB. However, ESMB does tend to be contentious (although less so through the years) which is one reason I never posted over there.

    One thing I know for sure — when I start to read or listen to someone with a particular point of view BEFORE I start reading or listening — that point of view WILL come through — even IF the person never intended it that way. Once I forced myself to be OPEN to a buddhist teacher although I had heard her years before AND DIDN”T LIKE her.

    She turned out to be one of the best teachers I had ever heard. Had she changed. Not really.

    I did.


  42. Words of wisdom – and perfect timing for such in my life. 🙂

  43. Tooky, some people’s opinions just don’t matter – call them whatever you want – or not.

  44. Hi Christine!

    Q 1. Why do you think Marty posted this by Maya Angelou about Haters?

    I’m not sure, but I think Marty feels there are people that hate him. That would include both OSA/Cult and exes and anons that are critical of him.

    Q 2. Do you think he was addressing the anti-LRH, Marty, Indie critics as some are already positing on ESBM.

    Yes. I do. There are many exes that are quite critical of Marty and his behavior. Some of the criticism is quite valid, in my opinion, and others is the usual crazy bullshit that one finds everywhere on the internet.

    I’ve stated this before. I kind of have a love/hate thing for Marty myself. I love that fact that he has big brass balls and bends over, lifts his kilt and waves his ass at DM, and get others to do it. There’s no doubt he’s a leader and his intentions are to help others both in and out of Scn. I don’t hate Marty the Man, but I truly don’t like (hate may not be the right word) some of his actions in promoting the Hubbard Tech.

    Some of the people on this Blog consider Kool Aid Drinkers to be those under the influence of DM. That’s a redefinition of words. The term Kool Aid drinkers term has been around since the time of Jim Jones and over the years has come to mean people who believe in Hubbard’s tech. While many of the people on this blog have gone through a phase of “decompressing”. I’m here to tell you, there’s a lot more roads to travel before you free yourself of the Hubbard mindset and “WWRD?” What would Ron do?. One of those lies that Hubbard wrote, was the absurd idea that critical = overts.

    You are all critical of DM. It doesn’t mean you have overts. It’s mean you have the courage to stand up and call it like you see it, even when others still in the cult can’t. The same applies to criticism of Marty and Hubbard and Scn. Exes that criticize don’t have overts… they don’t “hate”. They are just calling it like the see it without the Hubbard filters/blinders on. Playing the haters card is, imo, silly and
    just trying to put a label on people that truly disagree with you.

    Q 3. And lastly — do you think of yourself as a truth teller or a hater.
    Sometimes it’s hard to tell 🙂

    I’ve been out of the cult for 13 years. The first 5 years I posted anonymously as I was afraid of what the cult would do to me if I posted openly. After 5 years the cult finally figured out who I was posting as and outed me. I’ve been speaking the truth about Scn for 13 years now. It may seem like hate to those still in the mindset. But that probably because I grew up in Boston and we Bostonians tend to be a bit hard core. 😉

  45. For who?

  46. Marty, Thank you for posting this. I’ve since searched and read about Maya and ordered the book suggested above from the library.
    Yesterdays post with SJ’s success story was a major relief for me. To once again see the tech in action was rehabilitating. Without that, this post above would not have been so meaningfull. I would have read todays and a ‘failed purpose’ would have keyed in. Not anymore! SJ and Chris thank you for sharing and Marty, thank you for the group auditing!
    I have not felt this much hope since my ‘no NOTS/not clear’ sessions in mid 2000s.

  47. Regarding the subject of “haters”, if you have been around one you know how it feels, and no one can tell you that it’s just a misunderstanding, etc. You have already tried communication, you know it is just the person’s problem with himself, but it is still ANNOYING to be around the person. Well, it is completely your right to say, “This is a hater!” and it is completely your right to walk away. Those who try to force you to think you should just shut up a take it are having their own problems. But yes, I love the advice by Maya Angelou, and yes I agree that one has other things to do than to get wrapped up in battling haters.
    So have a lovely day! I am going to.

  48. This is very true to me.

    That is also important to not become the hater of the hater.

    Once a time a scientologist, OT8, told me that is was perfectly correct to kill the SPs. I objected vigorously! The purpose is freedom from the SP, not to become the SP of the SP!

    In my opinion, the Buddhist viewpoint prevails: wishing that the hater becomes free from the causes of his hate.

    That is a matter of postulates: if we postulate that the hater is our enemy, we create a condition of war in our universe.

    If we postulate that the hater eventually should be free from the causes of his hate, we prevent ourselves from falling in the hate trap.

  49. Thanks for posting this. It is so true too, people with nothing but hate in their mind can never truly be happy. As hard as it can be sometimes, love in the face of hate can work wonders. If only for your own peace of mind. People who hate on others are unhappy in their own space and want to see everyone else just as unhappy as they are. They cannot stand to see someone reflect light and love.

  50. “In the past, Marty has labeled anyone who criticized him, his friends, or L. Ron Hubbard, as “haters. This keeps him from seeing things that others see in him but which he does not see in himself. ”

    I don’t believe this is true at all. In fact, I know it is not. I have seen him take criticizm with a “thank you”. I have seen his friends take all kinds of criticism and even a few ass whippings. Geeze didn’t you just see Tony Ortega hanging out on his couch?

    I don’t see him having any blind spots about himself or handicapped with a cognitive disorder. “Anyone who has criticized him” is one big whopping generality.

    I would say 98% of the people visiting this blog can differentiate very well between, constructive criticism and recognize that purpose, and haters throwing entheta and opinions. It has to do with the ARC and PURPOSE behind the criticism.

    And now I would like to offer up a bit of criticism. This that you are pushing out is a wrong item and a wrong indication and it is based on a lie.

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to spot a hater from a truth teller. And this is aside from a critic. Critics are a different subject.

    A person that moves forward overtly or covertly to harm attack or suppress you, no matter the via, has an intention to harm. That is usually backed by some hate.

    Helpful criticism results in a person being helped.

    That is as simple as it gets.

  51. “You may trod me in the very dirt, but still like dust, I Rise.” I LOVE her works, and I love to hear her speak. Miss Maya can calm your whole spirit with her voice in a matter of seconds. She is truly a treasure.

  52. Words carry powerful magic. What you think upon grows.That wasn’t a Hubbard quote. Sometimes you put a word out there and it conjures up forces behind the word. If it is a type of identity, it can be like a muster or roll call. With the force popping up with a “HERE”! This is the basic science behind auditing. The way I view it. So, the politics of haters will be laid upon this table. Because the word includes them. Even, invited them. Halloween goes 24/7. People only like to pretend it is one day a year. 🙂

  53. Thank you Patty. I appreciate your answers.

    I took my last service at Flag in 1993 and in 2000 stopped considering myself a scientologist. OSA figured out fast who I was and posted some crummy stuff about me on a OSA “hate” site.

    I became a buddhist in 2005.

    HOWEVER, I am unwilling to attempt to cleave from my life those positive OR negative things that happened due to being IN scientology. First of all — many of my dear friends are still very involved, either in the SO or as public. I’m hopeful that they will one day look behind the curtain. I support exposing human right abuses.

    I don’t however even try to discuss scientology/dm/etc with those still involved. It’s not possible.

    Doesn’t mean I don’t care about them.

    And I don’t debate scientology with those who call themselves critics but NEITHER do I partake in discussions that are seemingly not open to any other possibility of help through different paths.

    We probably much more alike, than different.

    Afterall — I live north of Boston by several hours. Born free or die and it’s cold as hell here — that toughens one up. Lightly snowing today.



  54. iRoger From Switzerland Thought

    This post is a good lesson about life itself.
    It means what it means ! Nothing else !
    It’s a direct communication from the author to each one of us and just a lesson to be learned.

    And that some people feel attacked or go into figure figure about whom Marty means is just beyond me. The message is very clear and it can help anybody when it’s understood.

  55. It was me that called ESMB a hate group. What do you think the general tone level is there? Marty has over 250 threads fair gaming him on that forum. Well, maybe it isn’t all hate. Maybe some of it is blame. Hate and blame . But it evolved into a fair gaming instrument. People generally spend their words to fair game and unmock others. The purpose of that forum is to fair game the CofS and Scientologists. That is not backed by love. They view Scientology as a menacing particle and Scientologists as menacing particles. People want to exterminate menacing particles.

  56. I’m a hater! I hate it when religiously applied philosophy aims to rob people of their freedom of privacy of thought, freedom of speech, freedom to not be abused and freedom to change one’s beliefs.

  57. Haters gonna hate!!!!



  58. Another Layer

    “The purpose is freedom from the SP, not to become the SP of the SP!” Great point!

  59. (interesting moderation:-)

    I found this to be a good post, promoting reconciliation.

    Plainly, haters are really silly business.


  60. A bit off topic – but on the subject of Haters: I finished reading Marty’s book some time ago, but finally completed the cycle today by posting a review on Amazon. I Noticed that there were haters who didn’t even buy or read the book and were simply trolling. Could those who have read the book please take a few minutes and put in a review so that the truth about this book and correct rating is known?


  61. Li'll bit of stuff

    Tara & Oracle, well said on both counts. Psycho babble
    on “cognitive dissonance” actually CREATES that “state”
    IMHO. How far can one get from the basic truth about
    the simplicity of the static being? And his actual abilities?
    (all as laid out in Scn AXIOMS 1 – 10)
    Well, one could go down the road of listening to our truly
    astoundingly, knowledgeable friend, Tooky! And end up
    with greater & greater complexity in “trying” to understand
    the “mind,” using an astonishing variety of additional “labels”
    for a SIMPLE scn word referred to as ABBERATION.

    It seems, that for some, at least, that TRUTH definitely is
    stranger than fiction.

    Weird, just how complicated things can get, when one is
    unable and/or unwilling to duplicate AND understand the
    simplicity of Scn AXIOM 28, which it turns out, resolves
    the broad problems of the mind, spirit and the MEST

    Of course, for the critical and /or unwilling, auditing just
    won’t work—unless one can pull THOSE O/W’s jutting
    out loud and clear—FIRST!


  62. What I’m getting out of this post and the comments, is that we have what I call “a Tower of Babel situation” here, with this word “hater”. Virtually every person here has his/her own idiosyncratic understanding of what the word means, and what Marty means by it. There is at best a very loose commonality to what is understood by the word; thus Marty’s intent and meaning is interpreted in different ways by different people.

    This is born out by the Urban Dictionary, which has no less than 7 definitions at this time; but they revolve around a common center:



    1. hater

    A person that simply cannot be happy for another person’s success. So rather than be happy they make a
    point of exposing a flaw in that person.

    Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock someone else down a notch.

    Susan: You know, Kevin from accounting is doing very well. He just bought a house in a very nice part of town.

    Jane (hater): If he is doing so well why does he drive that ’89 Taurus?

    2. Hater

    A person that develops a strong dislike for another, solely basing their own opinion on personal judgment rather than objective merit. The formation of a hater’s contempt commonly arises from jealously and/or resentment. Individuals that make fun of, or “hate,” others for justified reasons cannot be legitimately classified as “haters.”
    Additionally, the word “hater” is frequently overused, mainly by members of the rap and hip-hop communities.

    “John is a hater of the ‘Jersey Shore’ MTV cast because they have more money than him, not because they are incredibly fucking annoying.”

    3. Hater

    Anyone with a opinion.

    Guy 1: Bro I don’t really like Drake.

    Guy:2 What!?! Bro your such a hater!

    4. hater

    Overused word that people like to use just because someone else expresses a dislike for a certain individual.

    PERSON 1: I don’t like Beyonce’s new song.

    PERSON 2: You’re a hater!!!

    5. Hater

    a word that is endlessly thrown around a lot but people will never get to the source of the problem with the way they treat it. a hater is a person who hates a person for no apparent reason, and when you ask them,
    they cant explain why they hate you without sounding like a complete douche.
    what a hater is NOT, is a person who is just giving an insight or opinion or some discretionary criticism, without holding angry feelings on a personal level, and has a LEGITIMATE REASON to criticize.

    the word “hater” has become a censorship discouraging critical thinking and encouraging conformity. this is a political issue if anything

    6. Hater

    The most non-insulting “insult” in existence. It’s a waste of breath to say it and a waste of energy to type it. This term is often used by pre-teen girls whenever someone insults their favorite teeny bopper singers. If you ever call someone a hater, find the nearest knife and use it pierce your lungs for
    polluting our air with that fucking stupid word.

    Smart person: “Justin Bieber has no talent”

    Pre-teen girl: “lik3 oMG fuk offf u hater ! !!”

    Smart person: “Kill yourself”

    7. hater

    A word that is overused, or a label given to you when your being truthful and reasonable about something, and people don’t want to accept the fact your right.

    ME- Bow Wow is a fake thug, who has a ghostwriter.

    Dumbass- Nah ah, your just a hater.

    ME- No its the truth JD wrote for him, and hes no thug, he never lived in the hood.

    Urban Dictionary ©1999-2012

  63. Curiosus, I agree with your post, but would like to point out that one can kill without hating. We kill in order to eat, for example. Many so-called “primitive” peoples from the Americas through Siberia, apologize to and thank for it’s contribution, any animal they kill for food.

    There are other examples, like “mercy killing”, or killing in self defense, like eradicating mosquitos to prevent disease.

  64. Tom Cruise help out with Hurricane Sandy victims? But that would entail traveling to the east coast and could lead to the nightmare scenario of actually seeing his 6-year old daughter… 😉

  65. Right on, T.O.!

  66. That was well said. There’s an irony to the very posting of this essay which exposes something of a “hate” of the haters. If Maya or Marty is at peace, they need not worry about haters. PEACE.

  67. Patty,
    the best anyone can do is post their own truth. It may actually not be anyone else’s truth. At that point where one starts to think one knows “THE TRUTH” which applies to everyone, well…….

    Isn’t that the point at which one has fallen into the “pot/kettle” scenario? The point at which one sets oneself up as a cult leader who has “THE Answer”?

  68. Mary, let me ask you this: If I post that “I disagree with the haters on ESMB”, am I saying that I think EVERYONE who posts on ESMB is a “hater”? Or am I saying that I think there are in fact a number of “haters” who post regularly on ESMB, and I am referring to them specifically?

    Another example might be Tony Ortega’s blog. There are a number of regular posters there who are “haters” or what I call “hater groupies”. But there are also commenters there who are not haters at all.

    I have posted on ESMB in the past, and have read many of the threads there. There are some there I would call “haters”. There are some “hater groupies”. Chiming in on the “hate Hubbard posts” is a ritualistic pastime for them. There are also several there whom I would call “Boddhisattvas” for their steadfastness in continuing to be involved there in an absolutely “theta”, totally hate-free way.

    I would say, read carefully, that you do not commit a “straw man” by seeing/hearing a generalization that was not expressed, and then arguing against that.

  69. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hilarious! homo sap in his soup-pressive awareness level!

  70. Tooky,

    Thank you very much for your 5 paragraphs of evaluation and invalidation. I don’t know what we would have done without it!

  71. Bingo, TO. Well said!

  72. Clearwater Lawyer

    Well stated Robert! And great post Maya! Thanks for sharing with us.

  73. Beautiful sentiments from a beautiful soul.

    I like to think of God as the vast, unlimited potential of creation. It exists, but it does not act independently. It only acts through us. We are agents of God and what we postulate into being, is what is.

    That is why we get what we keep our attention on and resist. If we were completely rational, we could just as easily create a paradise here on Earth as we can a Hell.

    But paradise wouldn’t be as dramatic as what we have, now would it?

    Personally, I’d like to go back to a paradise, at least for a good while. It’s been so long since I’ve been in one with my fellows, I’ve kinda forgotten what it’s like.

  74. Patty wrote: “One of those lies that Hubbard wrote, was the absurd idea that critical = overts.”

    There is a difference between being “critical” and being “hypercritical”.

    And there is also a difference between being “critical” (simply for the sake of being critical) and using “critical thinking”.

    I think that that’s what LRH was getting at with “critical = overts”.

    Personally, I’ve found the observation (“critical = overts”) to be very true not only in auditing but also in life: but only when the “overts” are truly SELF determined (and not determined through someone else’s world view). This is a very important, but also very subtle point.

    I think things became complicated when Ron tried to implement this same observation (“critical = overts”) into organizational/ management policy. That’s a much tougher nut to crack. I don’t know that the system that was put in place has proven to be a workable one — it certainly hasn’t under the current leadership. And I suspect that it didn’t work very well under the earlier leadership either.

    Unless one truly maintains the approach that all people have the right to think, speak, write or present their opinions freely, it seems that the inevitable result is a tyranny — where ALL observations, if disliked by the receiver and/or those in charge, can be labeled as “due to overts” and disregarded or even attacked. Which is exactly what has happened to the CoS.

    I don’t think that this was LRH’s goal — but I also don’t think that Ron’s attempts to integrate “critical = overts” into organizational policy have proven very workable — especially when the rubber hit the road.

  75. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Sinar.

  76. However, Jabberwocker, if the shoe fits, wear it. It is “other people’s worries” that are being addressed. Haters are a fact of life thus a word is needed to speak of them, whether we worry about them or not.

  77. Thank you, Christine. I truly appreciate your posts.

  78. Nice one, T.O.

  79. T.O., I understand what you’re saying about ESMB. I don’t go there much at all anymore as ESMB has it’s own flavor of Kool-aid, no doubt. But there, as any where, it seems to me best to respond to individuals there, not to the “general tone”, which is created by a vocal minority, their own equivalent of RTC. There are flowers growing there too, on the rubbish heaps.

  80. Reasonable observations and very good points.

  81. Li'll bit of stuff

    Ho-hum (yawn)……..zzzzzz–zzzz.

  82. Well said Curiosus!

    I will tell you an interesting story. I had someone on my lines for about five years that hated me. A very dominating woman, hard core dominating. She actually hated all Americans. This person grew up in a country that was communist and during her life there, religion was actually against the law. Raised in abject poverty in a “dog eat dog” environment where there was no concept of Karma, love thy neighbor, the ten commandments, no self help books and nothing spiritual. So, I gave her a lot of discount points. And I continued to be kind and gentle through every form of social abuse, that she could muster from long distances and brief occasional meetings. The kinder I became the angrier and more aggressive and hostile she became. She stopped being convert and got quite overt and forceful. One day she showed in my area and she started heading towards me.

    “There must be some magic in this, “Turn the other cheek” advise, I thought. I just stood and faced her with out a ridge of any kind. She got up close and was somewhat shaky with hate and rage, began to yell something at me and a few seconds passed and some of her teeth suddenly flew out of her mouth. We are talking IMPLANTS O.K.? It was as if the force coming from her, with no resistance, cycled around the planet and hit her on the back of her head and knocked her implants out.

    She had to run off with the present time problem. But this seemed to steam her up even more. It worked for me but boy did she get beefed up.

    Next time I saw her about six months later she was a freight train headed my way and yelling at me long before she reached me. Then, I physically removed her from the building. Everyone applauded. She was banned from the building.

    Nothing works like good old simple start – change – stop control.

  83. Just perfect.
    Scott, did you post this at 8:08PM on purpose? If so, even more perfecter! 🙂 I agree that we could all do with a bit of paradise.

    And here is perhaps the same sentiment as spoken by still another beautiful soul to help guide us towards creating our paradises:
    “…..To Love in spite of all is the Secret of Greatness.
    And may very well be the greatest secret in this universe”.
    And still another:
    “Love thy neighbor as thyself”

    There cannot be too many beautiful souls voicing this message. Thank you also for joining in!

  84. Calvin –

    “Cognitive dissonance”?

    I didn’t mention cognitive dissonance. I mentioned cognitive distortions, which come from cognitive behavioral therapy, which Marty has written about quite positively in his first book.

    And thank you so much for your kind compliments on how astoundingly knowledgeable I am. I’m glad somebody finally noticed around here.



  85. Christ had some valuable information to pass along. Considering where it led him, I would say he could have used some extra information.

  86. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    “To once again see the tech in action was rehabilitating.”
    So totally true.

  87. These are the same 2, “Vinnie” and “racecar”, who were all over the Reviews section of Marty’s first book, too. Wayne Froemke was all over them, as were some others, and their phony “reviews” were eventually deleted. The thing is,neither one of them had actually read the books! This was pointed out to Amazon.

    There is actually a “report abuse” link after each review which you can use to report a fraudulent review. In this case, “racecar” admittedly has not read the book; “Vinnie” probably hasn’t either; in any case, they are simply posting their negative PR lines about LRH and Scientology “in general”, rather than reviewing the book itself, so I reported them both. I also reported the “Anonymous” reviewer for the same reason. His review was completely “straw man”.

    I imagine this is a contingent of “missionaires” from the ESMB “hater” contingent, or some similar little group. They go around and post the same-old same-old anti LRH propaganda wherever they go. It’s a definite “party line”, not a book review, and can be reported on that basis as “abuse” of the Reviews sections, as far as I’m concerned.

  88. Awesome post Scott. I once had the thought that “God” was the sum total of the creativeness of all thetans. I like the way you expressed it better!

  89. I believe every time you wallow in black magic, when you try to step away from it, some of it sticks to the bottom of your foot. Degrading others is a sadistic pleasure . Every time you mock it up you pollute the atmosphere a little more. On the spiral you swirl in, if others were not actually cleaning up the atmosphere with some positive forms of hope and light and art, you would eventually pollute your own air until you couldn’t breath in it.

  90. “The problem with the use of labels is that they keep you from being able to differentiate ………..”

    “Here’s the list of cognitive distortions. They are extremely useful to learn……”

    Laughter! Hardy Har Har!

  91. For those who somehow just can’t get past the term “haters”, how about “toxic people”? In 1995 Dr.Lillian Glass published a book of that title, and a whole genre of related books sprang into being, on subjects like these:
    Emotionally Toxic People
    How to Handle Toxic People
    Types of Toxic People
    Warning Signs of Toxic People
    Toxic Mothers
    Toxic Relationship with Mother
    Characteristics Toxic Relationship
    Toxic People at Work
    etc etc

    Or, going back to Eric Berne and his groundbreaking book, “Games People Play” which is the foundation of a branch of psychology called Transactional Analysis, we have the idea of the fixed existential positions some people find themselves in – “I’m OK you’re OK”, “I’m not OK you are OK”, “I’m OK you’re not OK”, and “I’m not OK you’re not OK either”.

    The perception of some people being haters, invalidators, diminishers of others etc has been around as long as people have had eyes to see and ears to hear with.

    Surely that’s not so hard to agree upon? And then move on to happier topics?

  92. Yes. And helpers help, grantors grant, etc etc.

  93. +1. I enjoy your input. I know the many who are not, or were not, Scientologists, who contribute here. Thanks. The truth is applicable to all people, all beliefs and does not change due to the fixed idea some may have. I believe, the truth is what shall set us free to live a better life and rise to greater heights.

  94. Love this post. Thank you.

  95. Well, he doesn’t have much to worry about there because Katie and Suri are holed up in a 5 star hotel with running water and electricity.but I wonder why he’s not present and saving everyone from Sandy because it is only he that can save people, or Scientology. Hmph.bump. Reality. All I KNOW is that no religion should expect payment for enlightenment.


  97. i agree,and a good time to post this with all the hated coming out during the election.

  98. Good catch, TO. 🙂

  99. Really Oracle –

    Labeling a person is different than labeling or categorizing types of thoughts for the purpose of examining them more closely.

    Spotting and questioning cognitive distortions in your own thinking is an extremely worthwhile activity for a person. It brings almost immediate relief from depression, anxiety, “burn-out” and even procrastination.

    Where this comes from, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, is a non-drug “talk therapy” that has been scientifically tested and found to be very effective. One of its basic tenets is that your thoughts cause your feelings and it gives you a way to come into control of these – even without the need for a “therapist”.

    One of the best books written on the subject is “Feeling Good” by David Burns. You can find it here:


    Marty says cognitive behavioral therapy is a good thing (Pages 142-43 of “What is Wrong With Scientology?”).

    Why does he say that?

    I hope more people on this blog check this out for themselves. You can pick up a lot of cognitive distortions both inside and outside of Scientology. It’s good to spot them and to question them, all in the spirit of continuing to seek to live with the truth.


  100. Li'll bit of stuff

    Thanks for taking the bait, Tooky!

  101. How dare you say that posters at ESMB want to exterminate Scientologists! That’s a malicious lie and you need to seriously examine your motivations for making such a statement. Not even the most rabid anti-Scientology poster at ESMB has EVER suggested anything remotely like it. Questions are asked there and issues raised that challenge your preconcieved notions and rather than consider the possible validity of viewpoints that conflict with your own you prefer to dismiss us as a band of Nazis hellbent on your destruction?! Tell me again, who’s the hater?

  102. I have always said, they matter too. I agree.

  103. We do postulate the hater is freed from his hate in Scientology. It actually gets handled on the Clearing Course platens.

  104. Or OT 2. One of those. I may not recall exactly which one. But it gets addressed.

  105. I’m an urban Scientologist.

  106. So, are you saying, Oracle, that anyone who has done the Clearing Course Platens, or OT 2, will never be a “hater”?

    This is an interesting claim you seem to be making.

    Does it mean that it happened to you, and so it will happen for someone else?

    Or do you mean that only you are not a hater after you did the Clearing Course platens or OT2?


  107. I never mentioned the word Nazi. That was your item.
    Why don’t I tell you some definitions.

    ex·ter·mi·nate ( k-stûr m -n t ). tr.v. ex·ter·mi·nat·ed, ex·ter·mi·nat·ing, ex·ter·mi·nates. To get rid of by destroying completely; extirpate. See Synonyms at abolish.

    Yes, I believe the purpose of ESMB is to abolish the Church of Scientology and the practice of Scientology.

    It is a protest meet up place.

  108. Not a bad recovery, Tooks.

  109. “Tell me again, who’s the hater?”

    It ain’t me Babe. Otherwise I would have mocked up an EX E.S.M.B. and organized a group to fair game people on E.S.M.B..

    I am not attracted to the sport of Fair Gaming.

  110. constant vigilance

    What does ESMB stand for?

  111. “….challenge your preconcieved notions..”

    I think you may have some preconcieved notions.

    You suggest I pass judgement without inspection or experience or reality. That is not the case.

  112. Now that’s funny. Someone just told me you have alter ised my meanings well enough to start up a fresh Fair Game on me on ESMB.

    Well, glad to contribute to the sport. Live it up. Make it good and bloody!


  113. Very very bloody! Suck in ALL the sharks to feed!

  114. yesisaidit

    I didn’t say it, so I assume you are responding to the last line of T.O.’s post above: “They view Scientology as a menacing particle and Scientologists as menacing particles. People want to exterminate menacing particles.”

    I would apologize for T.O.’s extreme, and generalized inflammatory statements, but perhaps it was just some momentary flames? Because she responds to my subsequent post about ESMB with this: “I have always said, they matter too. I agree.”

    So really, instead of escalating with your own version of outraged and outrageous flaming, perhaps you might have asked her where she was coming from? Or just an “Are you serious?”

    As far as any necessity of “considering the possible validity of viewpoints(by which I think you mean ‘opinions’) that conflict with your own”, that’s a non-starter anyway. Why? because your opinions are basically valid only to yourself, and to any others who agree with you for whatever reasons. Sometimes the reasons are clearly political.

    There are a lot of individual opinions expressed on ESMB; I find it difficult to generalize about them.

    There are, however, a vocal minority who represent themselves as “opinion leaders” who have a ‘party line’ about LRH and scientology. This party line is thoroughly negative, with sometimes a small amount of lip service paid to some positive aspect. But the supposedly positive aspect is often portrayed as a “trick”. These people have their “groupies” there.

    There is thus a “party platform” purveyed on ESMB which is anti-LRH and anti-scientology. “Scientology” is usually spoken of as a generality. These are the same posters who like to remind others that the site is specifically a forum for EX scientologists. Others are not really welcome except as examples of “cult indoctrination”. Their viewpoints are thus not really considered as valid. “Let’s keep ESMB pure” might be the slogan. Of course, what that really means is “Let’s make sure the uncertain and the newly out, hear only our negative consensus opinion only.” Remind you of a certain so-called Church, perhaps? It does me. So, “pot/kettle” on that.

    But NO, I haven’t seen anyone on ESMB overtly state they would like to see Scientologists exterminated

    But although I might disagree with some parts of T.O.’s post, and have a different view of ESMB in some ways, in the end I won’t apologize for her because after all, doesn’t one good generality deserve another in return? 🙂

  115. Ex Scientologist Message Board

    “Meet other exes. Share your experiences. Reunite with old friends”

    Sounds good, doesn’t it? But it is often dominated by a few posters who purvey a negative party line about LRH and Scientology.

  116. “We should be celebrating the freedom to believe as we like, not as we are told.”

    Well, I just went over to ESMB to see how you are celebrating your Freedom to believe as you like. You have used your freedom to unmock and degrade me. And I invite you to carry on at it for as long as it brings you sense of joy and comfort. 🙂 In fact, I summon you up!

  117. It stands for Ex Scientologist Message Board . When it first started up people were invited to share experiences. It was actually a very cool forum and the owner of the forum was very bright, diplomatic and interested. More and more it shifted as people shared upsets and protests and it balled up into an angry mob. At one point success stories were banned. It ceased to be a meet up for nuetral people wanting to exchange information. It would be more appropriate now if it were named
    ASMB. Anti Scientologist Message Board.

  118. “Ex-Scientologist Message Board”. http://www.forum.exscn.net

  119. And I don’t mean to imply they all don’t have good reasons to be pissed off. They are not happy customers. Most of them were set up for losses and they set others up for losses too. They came in with the understanding that is was a game where everybody wins. They have every right to be pissed off.

    The things is, it has all gone general. It isn’t about the PERSON or PEOPLE who let them down. For them, it’s the whole game. And if you are a part of the game still, in any capacity, you can and will be targeted.

    It’s like Germany as a country being blamed for WWll, and not the people who mocked up the war or contributed to it. I was raised with a very bad opinion of the entire country of Germany. Then I read Marlene Dietrich’s autobiography and realized it was not the entire country and everybody in it. There were a lot of good people there. There were vast numbers of Germans who were violated and suffered and starved and were tortured. Even German soldiers FORCED to join and laying starved and freezing in the trenches in such a bad condition, America Soldiers were throwing cans of food across to them in the dark of the night from the other side! It came as a great relief for me to learn there were kind people, people who opposed what was going on, people who risked their necks to save other people. In fact, the majority .

    But if you are and were kind in Scientology, if you too opposed injustice, and if you are out here right now risking your life and well being, as Marty has done for some time with many others, it brings no balm to most of the people on ESMB. We are seen as brainwashed, Kool Aid drinkers, Cult people etc etc. There seems to be very little middle ground. For the most part, we are seen as menacing particles. That’s serious trauma.

    Although I care about them all as people, I do not feel obligated to take abuse from them. They were not traumatized by me. Targeting me for ever happened to them, is injustice. And I don’t target them for being pissed off and hating Hubbard or the Church or me or anyone else. But I don’t feel I need to tip toe around them or pretend they are not there. I do care. If I could fix it I would. I spent much time trying to blow charge, trying to cheer up, as a minority, I still tried. At least I tried. I cared enough to do that.

    They do not want or need Scientology on any level. And, I believe them now when they say it is actually toxic for them. They should know. I’m handled. Doesn’t mean I would want to hurt one of them for any reason.

    A plane crashes. Some people get up and stand in the wreckage and look around to help someone that has been hurt. That has nothing to do with Scientology. That is human nature. But if you are seen as the Pilot that crashed the plane and you try to help someone, you might get bit. Some people think everyone on board is the pilot.

    The plane crashed. I got a few scratches. I tried to help others as best I could. I caught another plane. Most of the other survivors will never get back on an airplane. These are personal choices. It was the ride that mattered. Not the destination.

  120. Or, the crash became such an issue, the destination no longer mattered. If I had DIED in the crash and I was on my way to London, I would have risen from the wreckage and made my way there with out the plane.

  121. But with all due respect, I would realize the other passengers might not have the same reasons I did for wanting to get to the destination. Justy like I didn’t have the same reasons why it was the ride that mattered.

  122. I did care about all of them. I tried to help them. It was beyond me. For that, they have good reason to hate me too. I only ended up on their list of disappointments.

  123. Marty also says Scientology Standard Tech is a good thing.

    Why does he say that?

    I hope more people both on and off this blog check that out.

  124. Jean-François Genest

    ESMB = Ex-Scientologist Message Board

  125. Jean-François Genest

    Exerpt from The Emotional Tone Scale
    3.5 Cheerfulness
    2.0 Antagonism
    1.9 Hostility
    1.9 Hostility
    1.8 Pain
    1.5 Anger
    ►1.4 Hate
    1.3 Resentment
    1.2 No Sympathy
    1.15 Unexpressed Resentment
    1.1 Covert Hostility
    1.0 Fear

  126. Ex scientologist message board .

  127. Absolutely.

    Non-abusive Scientology can be good for a person, too. I’m living proof of that. And I hope the new Independent movement can make that more and more true for more and more people.


  128. Don’t play with words. Your meaning was perfectly clear. You stated that ESMBers wanted to exterminate Scientologists in no uncertain terms and I called you on that bullshit. You’re spreading a malicious and destructive lie that sows further hate and discord between critics, exes and Indies.

  129. You and your friend need to wordclear the definition of Fair Game. My confronting you directly on your BS and commenting on it to others is nothing of the sort.

  130. Valkov, you are correct that I was replying to TO. What you consider flaming, I consider confronting head on – I will concede that I confront like a Mac truck. I won’t make any apologies for having done so.

    I went through the trial by fire at ESMB as at the time I began to post there, I was inclined to return to Scientology myself – not the CoS but the Indie field – and have no illusions regarding the climate there. It is a site composed of a fair number of people who can rightfully be termed apostates, though even apostates have shades of variation among us. Some are people who will state flat out that they want to see Scientology wiped off the face of the earth. Some are Anons, some are FZers, some are exes whose experiences at the hands of other Scientologists were hellish and extreme. But there are many, MANY posters there who have repeatedly stated that the right of individuals to believe whatever they want is undisputed. I’ve done my share of “Mac trucking” at ESMB as well.

    I’m not here to invite anyone to come on over. If you wanted to be active on ESMB you would already be there. But I think the tensions between our two “groups” are high enough without outrageous and untrue statements being put forward as fact to the Indies, particularly in light of the fact that the contentious nature of ESMB is offputting to a good number of you. So I came here and said so myself, rather than bitch about it elsewhere.

  131. martyrathbun09

    I know ubetisaidit and TO, and it is rather ridiculous for you to be at one another’s throats. Face to face, I am certain you’d love one another.

  132. You’re probably right, Marty. Face to face, I have never met a Scientologist that I didn’t like, whether they were an ex, Indie, FZ or CoS.

  133. I am not “playing with words.” I have not used the word Nazi. I was in no way using the word in the meaning you are. I have clarified my meaning and my definition. You seem to be the only one that has taken that meaning and insisted on using it with that association. I attempted to make my meaning clear to you, you have not accepted it. That is on you. It still is NOT on me. You are attempting to enforce a WRONG ITEM on me. That is on you, not me.

  134. Thanks for the map.

  135. I have clarified my meaning. The item is not being accepted. The meaning I was using, is not being accepted. I would say it again choosing another word. ABOLISH. In the end, if I spent three months here working to convey my meaning, working to bring about an understanding, it would all get balled up into noise. As long as I am viewed as a menacing particle, whatever I say will be moved and adjusted to fit in with that context. And that is exactly the point I was trying to make. So, this is a waste of time, and the last I am going to say about it.

  136. Thanks ubetisaidit. I don’t think we disagree much about ESMB. I have spent quite a bit of time, on and off, getting a good overview of the wide range of posts and threads there.

    I have compared ESMB before, to a big city. It has its good neighborhoods, its bad neighborhoods and its slums; its rich people and its poor, its gangstas and its sheeple and groupies, its persecutors and its victims. I am impressed that they all coexist as well as they do, given the wide range of opinions and orientations they have. One is pretty free to say what one wishes to say, given the possibility of being mugged for doing so. Any pro-tech, pro-LRH or pro-scientology does draw its opposites there. I am also aware of the various members who have been banned from there, and it was not for being pro scientology. “Emma” is pretty even-handed.
    Nuff rambling from me.

  137. Tooky, you posted, “The use of the label “haters” on this blog has been a divisive and destructive cognitive distortion which could be dropped with great benefit to all.”
    Time place form and event? DOX PLOX. Is this latest post of Marty’s, quoting Maya Angelou, an example, in your mind? Where has the term “haters” been used in a distorted fashion? Examples, please.

    The existence of a “hateful” personality is a fact of life. Many books have been published about “toxic people” and how to identify and cope with them. Maya’s quote is all about that, and how to cope with those when one comes across them. That’s the topic of Marty’s post, not the distortions used as tools of invalidation.

    Not all references to “haters” is distorted labeling. I think LRH’s 2 essays on the Anti-social and Social personalities apply, and cover the situation. One does not want to mis-use and mis-apply the label in antisocial, invalidative ways; but neither does one want to pretend that such a destructive personality does not exist.

  138. I am curious though, since you are accusing ME of playing with words.
    Have we had some earlier internet / forum exchange that disturbed you in some way, with you posting under another name?

  139. I have many Haters, Most of them are Anons
    But that is all part of the Game of being affiliated with Anon.

    Get thoug, Anons love, Anons hate. But will never be complacant.

  140. TO: I am not upset with you over the word Nazi, nor did I accuse you of having used it, nor am I trying to give it to you as any sort of item. In my phrase, “dismiss us as a band of Nazis”, the word as means “like” – its use by me in that sentence is a method of introducing a comparison.

    My upset was over you saying, “They [ESMBers] view Scientology as a menacing particle and Scientologists as menacing particles. People want to exterminate menacing particles.”

  141. You want to know the item that has me foaming at the mouth at you? “Menacing particle.” That is a disgusting thing to say and I am angry all over again seeing you repeat it here. You’re absolutely right, this is a waste of time. Specifically, mine.

  142. ubetisaidit,

    Have we had some earlier internet / forum exchange that disturbed you in some way, with you posting under another name?

  143. Have we had some earlier internet / forum exchange that disturbed you in some way, with you posting under another name?

  144. NO, TO. We have not had any previous altercations on the internet or on any internet forum. The only thread I remember you from was Richard Reiss’ death announcement on ESMB and you were not on the receiving end of my battering ram on that thread as you were not speaking ill of him. I have explained very clearly to you why I was upset and my reason for having come here to post. you have chosen to pointedly ignore that communication.

  145. “you have chosen to pointedly ignore that communication.” That is a false report.I have given your “communication” my full attention for two days. You say you explain “clearly” your upset. First it was about Nazis and a word, now it is about another word. So, it is not clear at all to me and I’ll tell you something else, there is something else behind this that you are not being forthcoming about. Because this is mind games. I am done tripping.

  146. I guess some people think I was a little hard on Tooky? However, having worked in psychiatry, I guess I am too sensitive to how these kind of categories can be used to invalidate. In terms of the auditor’s code, these are evaluation.

  147. Because I initiated this exchange, I feel obligated to wrap it up. Here are my quotes from previous posts that you have ignored. I say ignored because you keep asserting that other things were behind my coming here when I have already told you that is not the case.

    I came here outraged because of your post, “They view Scientology as a menacing particle and Scientologists as menacing particles. People want to exterminate menacing particles.”

    my 1st post
    “How dare you say that posters at ESMB want to exterminate Scientologists! That’s a malicious lie and you need to seriously examine your motivations for making such a statement. Not even the most rabid anti-Scientology poster at ESMB has EVER suggested anything remotely like it.”

    I go on to give an example of what that statement in effect does, which is to dismiss the entire lot of posters at ESMB as Nazis. Youi ignore the quoted statement here and jump on the term Nazi.

    my reply: “TO: I am not upset with you over the word Nazi, nor did I accuse you of having used it, nor am I trying to give it to you as any sort of item. In my phrase, “dismiss us as a band of Nazis”, the word as means “like” – its use by me in that sentence is a method of introducing a comparison.

    My upset was over you saying, “They [ESMBers] view Scientology as a menacing particle and Scientologists as menacing particles. People want to exterminate menacing particles.”

    If you read this, you never replied to it.

    So yes, I have explained my reason for having come here. If you are still confused by it, it’s because you keep trying to add more to it than there is. If there is anything behind it, as you keep saying, then it is behind it on your end, not mine. For my part, I still despise your characterization of ESMBers but have now gone on record with my objection to it, and I no longer feel it necessary to continue this conversation. I’m now returning to my regularly scheduled life.

  148. Li'll bit of stuff

    brightfametexan, while i love your comment, and your “handle”
    even more so, there is just that one teensy weensy little factor
    that just about NEVER fails to impact itself into any mix, where
    you have two or more beings from different viewpoints,
    attempting to interact! —–The need for problems—–and this
    is evidenced here through LRH, (quoting from The Fundamentals
    Of Thought)….”Man or any life form in this universe seems to
    love problems, A problem is more important than freedom.
    Problems keep up interest.

  149. Thanks for posting this Marty. Rather than try to discern your reasons I decided to own it for myself. It helped and I’m grateful for whatever thought, energy and effort went into posting it 🙂

  150. Just to bring some theta in this last two (important) posts:

    Enjoy some music + some nice lyrics.
    (No OSA, not for you this time, you wouldn’t understand..)

  151. Oups.
    This is Summer Train

    (the above one is to whom it may conecern)

  152. Excellent way of explaining, and good post to obtain information on the topic of my presentation focus, which i
    am going to present in college.

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