Where Were You?

I would appreciate your participation in the following two question survey.  Please provide answers by consulting your own current understanding, without reference to other published materials or views or doctrines of anyone else.

  1. Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?

a.On Earth, in and out of pre homo-sapiens forms, evolving animal bodies into human bodies.

b.On Earth, in and out of homo sapiens bodies the entire time.

c.  In other bodies on other planets among non-human civilizations. (if so, when and why did you come to Earth?)

d. In free-spirit state (or other out of body state) on this or other planets. (if so, when and why did you begin to occupy human bodies?)

e. Other.

2.  How did the humanoid form take its current shape?

a.   Evolved over many millennia by biological natural selection or similar Darwinian-like processes.

b.  Evolved by intelligent design of individual thetans. (if so was it a rather spontaneous creation or did it occur over many generations of body building and modification? When?)

c.  Created by ancient astronauts. (Sumerian theory)

d.  Put on earth by God or some other agency in much the same state they are currently in. (if so, when?)

e. Other.

200 responses to “Where Were You?

  1. This will be interesting…

    1) e – dunno.
    2) c

  2. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Fun 😀
    1. c and d as a matter of free choice until arriving on earth approx 2 lifetimes ago to help (according to metered recall).
    2. would tend to think it’s a combination of all of those theories and more.

  3. 1. C&D; arrived 35 000 years ago;
    Why? See Q2

    2.B&C; both spontaneously and over time. Finished up with a definite degree of finality to current form 35 000 years ago. Hence the why to arrival. Game on.

  4. c. “In other bodies on other planets”: Got sent here because I was trying to stop others from being “sent” here against their will or because they were tricked into doing so.
    a. “Evolved over many millennia”:

  5. OK.

    1) C. I was around other planets, far away, in and out of bodies, in a free spirit state mostly. Why did I come to earth? For the grand experiment that is going on right now.

    2) C. Ancient Astronauts, Or bodies are alien/human hybrid, genetic manipulation about 5000 years ago. (Sumerian theory)

  6. Ps, many varied experiences with bodies way back of that too. This planet didn’t take my virginity, I think it was in a drunken back galaxy somewhere I’d rather care to forget.

  7. 1e. Other. If I had pre-existed, I don’t remember.
    2c. In Iraq/Persia by the Annunaki.

  8. Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?

    c. In other bodies on other planets among non-human civilizations. (if so, when and why did you come to Earth?)

    Per my own recall of incidents I seem to have been in different civilizations or groups. Prior to earth I was a member of some group that was exploring or patrolling earth.
    I believe I came to earth on a ship and was exploring the surface as part of a team when I was attacked and killed by some sort of “man-ape” pre-human ancestors. My body was brought back to the ship in orbit and it was communicated telepathically that I was to come back, which was the standard thing to do. I believe this meant you return to base or home and get another body. (it seems like I was a “Grey” or some similar small alien). At this point I decided to “blow” and not return. I then recall living on earth as a primitive human ancestor.

    2. How did the humanoid form take its current shape?

    I would like to know the true data on this. I dont feel I can pick one answer.

    It seems like it was initially a created energy form that evolved down the line.

  9. 1. c
    Came to Earth about 10,000 years ago. Was tricked/implanted into coming here. That’s my current reality.

    2. a
    Don’t have a definitive answer on this but that’s my best guess.

  10. In the tradition of Gotama Buddha, question #1 would not be a valid question
    and the Buddha answered these type of questions with silence.
    Thus my answer would be “e” or other.
    In Theravada Buddhism, which is my current practice, the laws of
    Kamma or Karma are the key to the past.

    The second question is theoretical but can be answered with the help of
    modern science. Thus the best answer would be “a”.
    However, in Theravada Buddhism the material form realm is preceded
    by mind. Thus “other” could also be considered.

    George M. White

  11. Between 75 millions and 200 000 I have really no idea. I don’t believe Ned incidents are very reliables for the actual truth. Actually I’m not sure of any part of the time track I have run in auditing. Anyway, New OTVIII helps you to not believe in all that!

  12. The summerian theory doesn’t say it happened 5k years ago. Only the transcription of the legend happened at that time (ca. 3000-4000 y. ago), written down by a man with the name Endubsar and dictated by Enki.
    What was written down was a story reaching as far back as 200.000 years or more.
    Only problem with the records: can we be sure the translation is correct?

  13. 1) c. About 2300 years ago. I was stationed at Mars. I came down here out of total boredom, sick and tired of being always on post.

    2) e.Other. There were several species of humanoids that evolved here over millions of years. Current human form has been seeded within the last couple of hundred thousand years by outside agency.

  14. 1. E (I wasn’t here 75 million years ago so other)
    2. A

  15. IGYAT
    1. A
    2. B, over many generations, evolving from algae and so forth into human when Earth became inhabitable

  16. Why the thumb-down?
    I didn’t say the story is true. It is a legend written down by a man dictated and written down in an ancient (dead) language and we can’t even be sure was translated correctly.

    However, interestingly the legend was around for some time, as we find many parts of the legend in the Genesis (Tanakh / Old Testament). The texts we find are slightly different but recognisable (Adam and Eve, the Flood and the Arc of Noah, Kain and Abel and others).

    But if you thumb me down due to your religiosity, it’s fine with me 😉

  17. 1 C, I think there is something to the “big one”, and I was involved in the dumping. Those ships were huge, definitely didn’t look like DC8s to me. Shipped off to Mars some time back, maybe 80,000 years ago. The place got nuked, ended up here. Being “stuck” here is not a victim thing, by the way. We are experiencing exactly what we need to experience.

    2 B and C, the humanoid form is very ancient – as is the reptilian form. I think there has been some genetic manipulation going on.

  18. 1. Where was I, 75 million to 200,000 years ago? This a long period of time so there are many many answers.
    d. a free spirit on this and other planets then later
    c. in other bodies on other planets.
    I have been back and forth between here and other planets many times during that time period. As a free spirit, travel was easy. In later times it depended on birth.
    2.How did the current huminoid form take its shape?
    b.Evolved by intellegent design then
    c. Then at a later times, life continued automatically and natural selection took over. In order to have a game a thetan must give up a certain amount of control (not know).

  19. 1. e
    2. d – When God created Adam.

    I am a Christian who first learned about the evils of The Church of Scientology in 2007 when a friend told me about Lisa McPherson. Since that time I have made it a mission to help those who have become disassociated with family/friends outside the church and are basically trapped (whether they know it or not). I recently learned of your blog and now have set it up on my feed. I figured it couldn’t hurt to answer these questions since you did not only ask for the former/independent Scientologist’s answers.

  20. Ok Marty – as always, you open a can of worms. Give me a few days – I could write a book. But why? So someone gets warned and doesn’t have to go thru it> NO (The way out is the way thru – Ron said somewhere) I want all on planet earth to have and what I have. Isn’t that sort of close to what we say to the examiner.
    I’m a millionaire. But we do need leaders as you and Ron and others have been. Thank you for that.
    I am only 60 – have about 30-40 years left and have found diamonds, very pretty twinkling in their home (I like the home better then the diamonds) and garnets and music!
    And I am only 60.
    This is what Ron gave me.
    The ‘Church’ took it away.
    And you and yours gave it back.
    Weather you chose to be responsible or not fine. I don’t care but thanks anyway.

  21. #1-D, started occupying human bodies for what seemed like more fun and adventure
    #2-B, and I think it occurred over generations

  22. PS answers:
    1 Other
    2 Other

  23. BTW I think 2 C & D are very similar.

  24. George,
    I heard before various statements that the Buddha was “silent on prior lives and reincarnation”.

    Didn’t the story of Buddha’s Enlightment under the Bodhi tree, include a statement that he had recounted prior lives and seen what they were made of, and thus his cessation of cravings and liberation from compulsive becomingness?

    I’m really curious about your viewpoint on this.

    Incidentally I chose Dianetics and not Buddhism, precisely because I couldn’t see how the former could attain what his founder claimed.

  25. What I find interesting about the responses is that people are honestly telling you a personal and spiritual belief they have and others are “rating” the answers. What ever happened to granting beingness?

  26. greenonwhite

    1 e
    2 b
    “Evolved by intelligent design of individual thetans. (if so was it a rather spontaneous creation or did it occur over many generations of body building and modification? When?)”

    May I answer, “Evolved by intelligent design of individual thetans operating within organizations with this specific function.”

    This is ancient, ancient, ancient technology going back ‘forever’. As long as games have been played in this universe bodies have been designed and messed with, including those we find locally. A timeline would be from a few trillion or so to more recently.

    Again, and much more recently, due to local catastrophes, about 70 million years ago, a new creative design and restocking phase occurred to replenish local flora and fauna.

    It seems something happened around then that destroyed many species.
    Interesting research is:

    “Atomic explosions cause atmospheric fallout much like that of volcanic eruptions.”

    “Oct. 26, 2007 – New evidence dug from the shores of the Bay of Bengal supports the radical idea that it was a series of monumental volcanic eruptions that wiped out the dinosaurs, not a meteor impact in the Gulf of Mexico. The discovery confirms two important things, said Keller: First, that the most massive Deccan eruption and the K-T mass extinction happened at the same time. Second, that the later, final eruption is timed right to have slowed the recovery of many living things. This latter matter of the slow recovery has long been a mystery to palaeontologists, she said.”
    Reference: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/10/26/dinosaur-volcano.html

    [Obviously we all have, probably, and I definitely do, lots of interesting data on this area but published by others, so not asked for in this post at this time. maybe later.]

  27. Good one…

    1. “Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?”

    C … based on various spotty recalls. I do not seem to have arrived on this planet until perhaps 10 thousand ,or so, years ago. I have recall on being sent here, along with many others, because we were rebels. The old “transporting undesirables game” has been going on for a long time it seems. Also, whether some of the civilizations were “non human” or not depends on one’s definition of “non human”. Some had bodies strikingly similar to the ones we currently wear.

    and D.. but as to “why did I start to occupy human bodies? No recall on that one.

    2. ” How did the humanoid form take its current shape?”

    It seems to be a mix of some “A”, “B”, and “C”.

    Due to the nature of my “here and there” recalls, I have no real continuum on how the whole thing developed. Natural selection seems to have played some part, but it is not real to me that it was a totally “linear” process. Even current biological evidence, on various life forms on earth, suggest that this is not the case.
    Overall, I tend to favor parts of the “Sumerian narrative” as a possibility for some of the refinements. Some of my recalls suggest there seem to have been bodies like ours long before there were any on earth. I feel that a little “meddling” sped the development of the current human body form on earth.

    To redefine “human bodies” as “anthropomorphic forms”… well… you got me on that one (though I do understand that you never asked). Without a dedicated track search I have no answer, other than to say that my data seems to suggest longer than the order of magnitude of “hundreds of thousands of years”.

    Have fun…

    Eric S

  28. 1) I do not remember date, it was really long ago at the beginning of life on Earth. I have arrived here to live – there were three of us. There were two of us and the third came later. There where few more hiding (the bad guys), that we found out about later.
    2) Degraded spiritually and evolved body-wise into a current form and shape from the originally artificially created clones resembling their creators in appearance. All animals and plants were brought to Earth by the life creators – we were making a planet a home for ourselves to live on. Some clones (originally created to do a job maybe on nearby planet) degraded into the monkeys, when where left alone with no job or supervision, Other clones where picked up as a body by the creators who had to stay on Earth after the drama that took place on that other planet. Original creators are still here and the drama is still going on. The human body was not designed to carry around or to be aware of or operate that much theta that their creators had at use. They lost contact with a lot of it when smashed into the human bodies. One (the third to arrive) stayed around not taking the human body and keeping whole awareness and control. Two got lost on the planet and live in human form searching, to find a whole self and each other. Those 3 where on one team. There where also some evil creature(s) presented here (experimenting with the bodies trying to create a good one for self) who added to the drama. The experimenting with clones was illegal and there was a moment when out of fear to be found out those evil guys killed all clones and prototypes on that other planet in our solar system that destroyed a planet in explosion. I remember that explosion seen it from outside. It was a part of the drama. Some of that clones were saved and brought to Earth. The Moon was artificially created by the third guy, the most powerful one. The one out of the first couple lost his gods body in that explosion… boy that’s a long story with lots of details, too long for a comment! 🙂 To answer the question, I gave up the god’s whole awareness to follow the first one and took a human body. It was also to donate the theta I lost at the moment of coming into the body to the first guy to help him – in a free state it was available to him and to any life form. It was my falt that he took the human body – It was my idea and suggestion. But that’s another story that has to do with a third guy that stays around as a god.
    (I can be wrong, but I like my version. 🙂 )

  29. What an intriguing topic.

    My current understanding at my case level has not given me sufficient ability to know the answers to these interesting questions.

    I really wish I knew. I have gone back on the track with pretty good knowingness about 2-3000 years. Even farther back about 1 million or so with a real mind-blowing, lifer-altering cog on the 2D.

    So, I guess my answers are both e) other – Dont know yet

  30. 1C, among those other bodies an insect form about 4′ high – a very useful body, handlike extremities on all 6 limbs.
    2D, Much later humanoid bodies, in one of those I was put physically on this earth 2024 years ago in the middle of the West Saudi desert, miles from nowhere without water and left to die. I stayed in that area to the West a few lives. Never met Jesus, though. The command to stay on “mother earth” did not stick all too well, I’ve been off this planet in between more than a few lives.

  31. Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?

    c. In other bodies on other planets among non-human civilizations. I came to Earth approx. 8000 years ago.

    d. In free-spirit state. The use of bodies is an interesting tool as driving a car.

    2. How did the humanoid form take its current shape?

    a. Evolved over many millennia by biological natural selection or similar Darwinian-like processes.

    b. Evolved by intelligent design of individual thetans. It occured over many generations of body building and modification. This started about 250 000 years ago.

  32. 1 e Don’t know

    2 e Don’t know

  33. 1. C. I came about 10,000 years ago with the goal of developing the necessary tech(s) to bring about a new civilisation and free men.

    2. B and A. I believe the bodies’ blueprint was created way back, billions of years ago by a small group of thetans, engineer type. The purpose was a) to put on automatic the development of living forms the thetans could then use easily (sub-purpose: facilitate the persistency of things and the playing of THAT game) b) include in the basic program (blueprint) an “evolution” paradigm that would bring about an infinite diversity, complexity and interaction of those organisms and c) include also a fundamental basic goal of that programmed evolution : developing the superior human-like species of bodies, a much sought after super-duper-body for thetans who want to play THAT game. The attainment of c) above could have a bonus for the bright mind (or the one that knows the hidden programmed trick, as in a video game!), something I believe Lao Tzu played with: the way to evolve in a matter of years our flesh-and-mortal-body to a light-non-mortal mockup-like body.

  34. Conan,
    Very good point and one that kept me into research for years. In fact, it was
    one of the motivations that led me into the study of the Pali language.
    In Theravada the study of past lives – in or out of meditation – is not
    at all important. Yet Gotama Buddha encountered past lives.
    The key to the answer is in a famous discourse where the Buddha
    holds some leaves in his hand and says to the gathered monks:
    “Which is greater the leaves in my hand or the leaves of the great
    forest?” Of course, the answer is obvious – the forest. The Buddha then says
    that what he knows as Buddha is comparable to the forest. What
    you need to know to go free is comparable to the leaves in his hand.
    The “Four Noble Truths and the Eight Fold Path” as a route to direct
    experience and enlightenment do not depend on the study of past lives.
    In summary, the Buddha basically taught emphasis on the now
    or present experience.

    George M. White

  35. 1. B

  36. 1. I have no recall of being on earth between 75,000,000 and 200,000 years ago. ‘d’ indicates as to my state.

    2. Taking a peek at the timetrack: I was apparently enthralled by some game involving bodies. Then after a series of ARCXs, overts, problems, etc. with these bodies over a long period of time, I became so sympathetic with one of them that I interiorized into it and started operating it directly. I wanted to be more “alive”. Got addicted to sensation. I don’t think this happened that long ago – but it sure sounds like one of those incidents way back there. FIIK – In that incident the human body is just a critter like a horse that you can ride (from the inside) LOL. The body is alive by itself and is already occupied by something similar to me. So, I’m going with ‘a’ on this one.

  37. SKM, just perplexing how there are any thumbs down here at
    At first I was a bit taken aback that Marty was asking questions
    about your personal track but then I could see the validity in it
    as surveys can reveal a lot of interesting data and is not like
    you have to give your name. Plus of course people usually
    get very involved when you ask them about their current life
    so why not their track record. Anyway there are no right nor
    wrong answers as they are just what “is” for each person.
    Maybe we should just skip the ups and downs thumbs on this

  38. 1 – d – Took a body because someone said I could feel sensations better + had overts on humanoid.
    2 – e – I am not sure.

  39. George,
    Thank you for your answer

  40. 1 e “other” I wasn’t alive in any form back then.

    2. a

    I’m a believer again in the man from mud story. I think over eternity, everything gets recycled into every possible role, and this goes on forever.

  41. Arrival-if you are looking for that fifth invader force that arrived in Afghanistan area and got sucked into an implant trap, I think you’ll find several here in Seattle….

  42. Yes.
    But I didn’t give my own view or memory on the subject.

    While all this stuff is interesting, I think Scientology is defined by its results. All the “Space Opera” has in my opinion nothing to do with Standard Technology.
    No one is forced to believe any of this Para-Scientological materials. No one is forced to believe anything in Scientology, at all (besides the “fact” that DM was hand-picked by LRH as his successor).

    Sweeney is a biggot.

  43. Tom Gallagher


    I find this a fascinating and thought provoking survey.

    1. D. The sensations and emotions are entertaining and fun, though sometimes frustrating.

    2. B and C.

    These answers are the best as I can recall. I really though don’t dwell on it or even give it a consideration.

    My focus (attention) is on the here-and-now and the self and co-created future.

    I’ll mention that one of my often used rhetorical comments is “Welcome to planet Earth!”

  44. Re the 1st question: No interest in doing listing on-line. I’ll save it for the meter.
    I’m sorry Marty but that first question strikes me as f’ing squirrel.

  45. North County

    From fairly extensive time track recalls:
    1 – e. Other. Mix of b., c. and d. answers except not on earth that far back to best of my recall. I was mainly in human civilizations and lessened free spirit time to earlier, in this sector of the galaxy from the “Wall of Fire” stretch. One curiosity, I was involved in an earlier planet Dianetics type effort, not as refined as what we have. My arrival on Earth wasn’t until around 9,700 year ago, (which, historically, and fitting my recall, would be pretty much post-Atlantis and flood, before things started to happen again here.) I, the spirit, was space warped or space rocketed here from Marcab where I apparently was for about 15,000 years. Last I recall I was a non-conformist there in academia that got me in trouble.
    2. b. over a long time, with the impact of theta and genetic entities, building up to thetans being able to then accelerate the human entity refinement. If I’m dating my time track right, I was regularly, but not permanently, joining human type civilizations about 3-5 trillion years ago, after a period of more structured MEST building maybe 5-10 trillion ago, after being a thetan out there for a mighty long time.

  46. I don’t know and I don’t care! 🙂

  47. One Point Won

    1. Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?
    e. Other:
    I was often in animal/human bodies. It feels like I was usually close to “here.” Not to be corny, but it is almost as if it was the same or similar location I am in right now, but sometimes in a different dimension. Geometrically speaking: it seems that each time I was “physically” and/or “spiritually” obliterated, I would jump off of a “point” in a time line, onto a completely different “plane/universe,” but these universes or planes would somehow intersect. Sorry to be weird.These “body deaths” would sometimes result in me jumping to (or believing that I jumped to) and sometimes even being forced to change or assume “other” locations in other galaxies. Sometimes these “jumps” were caused by implants. And, by the way, I did not always call “here” Earth, but I was usually near “Earth,” (reachable in terms of light years I mean) and almost always in this “earthly-type” of galaxy and/or similar galaxy-type dimension. I do not recall ever being more than 8 galaxies away, however, I do not know that all of those galaxies still exist (or ever “really” did!) But I believe that some of them still do.

    By the way, as a child, when I would watch Flash Gordon on TV, I would ALWAYS think of it as my past. So, when I first saw the movie Star Wars and I heard and saw its intro line: “Long ago in a galaxy far, far away…” I could feel charge blow off my body and I felt fantastic and more eager to recall my past!

    2. How did the humanoid form take its current shape?
    e. Other:
    I believe that humanoid forms quite similar to the current humanoid form were at one time spontaneously created by beings (let’s say 300 billion years ago). Later on as beings became more and more degraded (devolved) we then began to use “intelligent design” without spontaneous creation. Then as beings (myself included) became more and more crippled we needed to evolve over many generations-of and types-of body building and modification.

    2 e. You ask When? I think that some beings were still able to spontaneously create humanoid bodies as recently as 7 billion years ago, however, this time around on earth it has taken millions of years to do so.
    So the answer b. would be close, but the answer e is more accurate for me because I do not think that this last time around (I mean now, here on this earth) we were actually intelligent enough as beings to just “KNOW” which bodies would survive best (on earth for example) we had to “work on it” (and by that I mean that beings caused cells to evolve for millions of years into bodies.

    When I read Science of Survival, the Theta-MEST theory indicated to me for this planet as true for the last 80 million years or so.

    PS I am NOT referring to “doll bodies” in any of my above answers.

  48. 1. + 2.:
    As until now I had no clear memory access to this periods of time, and as my understanding IMHO must be verified by my own aware direct experience, I can’t state anything until further reality. But very curious about other’s really from any having some about on this blog. I think it’s very good idea of survey 🙂

  49. I used to believe in past lives but now I am not convinced at all. It has not helped me at all in this lifetime and I believe any auditing I did on past lives was my vivid imagination. It did not improve my conditions! I don’t know nor do I care to know!

  50. This is not the best environment to communicate deep seated ideas or beliefs.
    I love the blog.

  51. CommunicatorIC

    SKM: “All the “Space Opera” has in my opinion nothing to do with Standard Technology.”

    “Axiom 38
    1. Stupidity is the unknownness of consideration.

    2. Mechanical definition: Stupidity is the unknownness of time, place, form and event.

    1. Truth is the exact consideration.

    2. Truth is the exact time, place, form and event.

    Thus we see that failure to discover truth brings about stupidity.

    Thus we see that the discovery of truth would bring about an as-isness by actual experiment.

    Thus we see that an ultimate truth would have no time, place, form or event.

    Thus, then, we perceive that we can achieve a persistence only when we mask a truth.

    Lying is an alteration of time, place, event or form.

    Lying becomes alter-isness, becomes stupidity.

    (The blackness of cases is an accumulation of the case’s own or another’s lies.)

    Anything which persists must avoid as-isness. Thus, anything, to persist, must contain a lie.”

  52. Question 1) B – Just the most real of A or B. I have no reality on C or D and cannot answer the follow up questions on either.

    Question 2) A – The GE evolved the body which doing quite well without a Thetan. The Thetan pick it up afterward because of the sensations he found were associated with it.

  53. OK, please forgive me for playing with this, but I have an uncontrollable compulsion to give smart-ass answers first.

    1.e. other: a twinkle in my daddy’s eye!
    2.e. other: Flying Spaghetti Monster Cosmology

    In the beginning on the first day, the Flying Spaghetti Monster created Pasta and he saw that it was YUMMY!
    Then, He found that Pasta was lonely, and thus on the second day He created two companions: Marinara and Alfredo, two saucy ladies that would enrich Pasta’s flavor and caloric content.

    On the third day the Flying Spagetti Monster (FSM) created the Paper Towel in order to salve the sloppy mess created by Marinara’s acidic jealousy of Alfredo’s smooth and creamy seduction. FSM found that Marinara’s and Alfredo’s jealousy could not only be cleaned up by Paper Towels, but needed to be prevented by an outside, calming agent;

    Thus, on the fourth day, FSM stomped his noodly appendages and created Chianti to accompany Pasta and his saucy ladies and deliver them into peaceful assembly and digestion. FSM found that his caloric creations found each other so pleasing that they created in great abundance! Paper Towels could not absorb such abundance, and FSM was displeased that his creations had placed so much value in material expressions of abundance.

    Thus, on the fifth day, FSM created a more ephemeral manner of expressing such abundance: the Belch and the Fart. FSM was displeased with the wanton production of his creations, especially the Belch and the Fart. FSM felt he must punish his creations;

    Thus, on the sixth day he created the Hangover where all his creations would suffer the fate of existing in the fullest expression of their nature.

    On the seventh day, FSM felt overwhelmed by his creativity, and thus, he created the toilet. He thus flushed his creations.

    Alas, there was no eighth day, thus the cycle of creation and flushing of excess was imprinted into an eternal 7-day cycle.

  54. 1) e – I did not exist.
    2) a

  55. Why I push the “sweeney is a bigott” Button?
    Because he is still pushing the Xenu one.
    He still says it is the core belief of Scientology which is absolute nonsense.

    I don’t know why he investigated Scientology in the first place, but if he only did in order to find something to criticize, to find some weak points… well…

    He demonstrates that he does not grant Scientology a religious status.
    He is not distinguishing the subject and the organisation.
    He is not respecting the religious doctrin. At least publicly.

    Sweeney, if you fear Scientology than use it. Look what is in there and stop mocking up stuff. Maybe you’ll find the reason why Scientologists in general DO NOT care if every single narrative by LRH is true or just a illustration.

  56. I agree Gail, this is very personal stuff, as are many responses on Marty’s site, and these ratings make it easy for anyone, including Miscabitch or his flying monkeys to drop in and rate down.

    Marty, I don’t know if this is a choice on wordpress, but If we’re going to have this at all, lets have a drop down list or some such who rates what.

  57. 1 e. In other bodies on other planets in human civilizations boringly similar to Earth, but that stretch of the timetrack is more occluded than some earlier periods. My earliest recall on this planet was about 3000 years ago, don’t know how I got here.

    2 e. The genetic line of our present bodies evolved over the last few million years from apes on Earth. Molecular cladistics has shown they’re built up from much the same genes as chimpanzees, just as corn has the same genes as its wild ancestor (teosinte) even though it looks very different. Selection modifies the way genes are used in the body’s developmental program.
    But the humanoid body shape has been around for trillions of years. I recall human-shaped bodies – one head, two arms etc – in universes before this one even though they were not always made out of flesh or even solid matter. And the same goes for other life forms: horses, birds, pine trees … There’s something else, apart from selection and genetics, going on. But it’s not necessarily deliberate intervention by thetans. There may be something that makes different genetic lines converge on similar final forms. (Thanks for asking the question, it’s one of my favourite topics and I’ll blog about it, later).

  58. Squirrel? Why?
    You can answer if you’ve already found an answer, and if you wish to answer. If you haven’t found out you don’t need to go listing – it’s no auditing question.
    Or would you go listing also if you look at the History Channel and the voice-over asks “How was life 1000 years ago?” before a program about the Middle Ages.

  59. 1. D
    2. B

  60. Seriously?

    Isn’t this the pot calling the kettle?

    Aren’t each of us by virtue of just reading AND posting on Marty’s blog, by definition squirrels?

  61. Please read my comment with while doing a teenage eye-roll!

  62. Helmut Flasch

    some people, seem to be asking where I am and why they do not see any comments of my on Marty’s blog.
    Hellen and I, by the way are doing great by the way – delivering truing and auditing to many, many, -getting auditing an diet participating in many other life activities.
    the post of Marty, amongst a punch of others for quiet a while now, are the reason.
    Marty went over the cliff long long time ago – probably never came back from being a suppressive WITH Mr. Mismanage – and then “changing sites” when he realized that he simply is just another very week,very broken, piece in Mr. Mismanage’s perverted game.

    for a while, a little while only, I gave him the benefit of the bought , but as a trained auditor who knows his business, I should have known better. :):)

    by the way the same ablies to Debbie – the conveniently blind Flag captain.

    Boy, its nice to be free from one and all 🙂

  63. Ulf, I know the laws of Listing & Nulling and I know a listing question when I see one. The risk is too great that people who don’t know about listing will automatically list on that question. Is that so bad? Only if they get the wrong answer and stir up a hornet’s nest in their case. Then what? How do they get that out-list corrected? Most won’t even be aware that an out-list is the reason they’re not having such a great day tomorrow.

    For the record, I hold Marty in very high regard. To see such a question posted on this blog concerns me. I’ve watched the blogs over the past week go from old shoes to a rapper who can’t seem to stop grabbing his crotch and now a listing question. Yes, I’m concerned.

  64. I too love this blog. The only one that I comment on. Not the only one I read.

    However, I disagree about deep-seated beliefs.

    It is questions like these and sharing ideas that can possibly uproot deep-seated opinions which are IMHO the very things that create a stagnant, lock-step, cult following mind.

    It is only, again my opinion, that by questioning myself daily as to which beliefs of mine are like cement, wch are so engrained it don’t notice them – that I’ve been able to grown and become more free.

    How, except by always watching my mind can I possibly begin to wake up?


  65. But, not so free that you could stay away, not keep up with the blog and now comment.

    That doesn’t seem free to me.

  66. Where were you last Friday night?

    Is that a listing question? I’m a pretty decent grad V auditor and I sure don’t think that’s a listing question by any stretch of the imagination.

    “Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?” That’s not a listing question either. Now it might be a bit of a freak out for someone who’s scared of the track. There are NED remedies for that if you’re interested.

    If we’re going to state that we have all this certainty on the immortal nature of thetans and that Ron had it nailed with whole track implants etc. then it would seem like a perfectly natural way to start a conversation with someone who’s interested in the subject. If your answer is “I have no idea,” then that would be an appropriate response to the question.

  67. I am absolutely fascinated by the spread and spectrum of the answers. We have everything from Jesus manufacturing us to Chuck Beaty spontaneously combusting from mud, to silently wise Buddha who knows all about past lives but keeps wisely silent, to an OTVIII who is uncertain about the existence of the whole track, to a question on a blog being called “f’ing squirrel”, to auditors worrying about inval in the answers, to somebody hating Scientology as the major answer to all questions in life, to all kinds of a spiritual phenomena and possibilities. And then a couple of sourpusses keep on marking thumbs down on pretty much every answer.

    What the hell is going on? Why so much passion about these Marty’s questions? What’s the ser-fac here? What are people afraid of? Could anybody share their views on this?

  68. We can also just nut up and realize where this stuff likely comes from, and not give a hoot, but it is a bit of a hang nail for many.

  69. OK, now I will be a good girl and answer the questions in the spirit in which they were genuinly asked:
    1. When doing the L’s I had answers that involved “Star Wars” scenario answers, fighting in an army attacking/defending, etc. No experiences unlike what I know historically about living being interactions. We live, we suffer, we love, we fight, we win, we lose, we die. I recall simply answering the auditing questions with whatever popped into my head without second guessing myself, although I told my auditor that I was doing exactly that, so that I could not be blamed for making false statements in session. So, apparently I was George Jetson some 75 gazillion years ago.

    As far as the reason for coming to Earth – I have never speculated upon such a question. My fantasy response is “because it is quiet, beautiful and peaceful.” But, of course, any PLACE holds the same “issues” as the person who brings their self to that place.

    2. I am in the Darwin camp on this one. Physical life forms tend to adapt to their environment or perish. Humanoid form truly does not seem that divergent from other earthly life forms. Of course we suppose we are uniquely unique, and we have a unique view of our own species. We have no means of intelligently speculating how other species’ view their own species or others. A gold fish – if it speculates in the manner we accept was speculation – may or may not consider that it holds most of its characteristics to be the same as that of a newt or a human.

    OK, that was a good bit of nonsensical speculation I just shared. Your question requests speculation about the existance of a life form. Spiritual involvement is therefore irrelevent to the question.

    I am looking forward to other responses and to your line of reasoning that provoke these questions.


  70. CommunicatorIC

    SKM: “Why I push the “sweeney is a bigott” Button?
    Because he is still pushing the Xenu one.
    He still says it is the core belief of Scientology which is absolute nonsense.”

    Did you audit OT III? Did you audit above OT III?

    If so, WHAT were you doing? WHY were you doing it? WHOM were you addressing? With WHOM did you communicate?

    IF you communicated with anything other than yourself, where did it (or they) come from? Why was it (or were they) there?

    Were you addressing reality? A myth? A metaphor? An allegory?

    Did you AS-IS anything? If so, WHAT?

    Honest question — What is OT III without Xenu?

    And again, please consider:
    “Axiom 38
    1. Stupidity is the unknownness of consideration.

    2. Mechanical definition: Stupidity is the unknownness of time, place, form and event.

    1. Truth is the exact consideration.

    2. Truth is the exact time, place, form and event.

    Thus we see that failure to discover truth brings about stupidity.

    Thus we see that the discovery of truth would bring about an as-isness by actual experiment.

    Thus we see that an ultimate truth would have no time, place, form or event.

    Thus, then, we perceive that we can achieve a persistence only when we mask a truth.

    Lying is an alteration of time, place, event or form.

    Lying becomes alter-isness, becomes stupidity.

    (The blackness of cases is an accumulation of the case’s own or another’s lies.)

    Anything which persists must avoid as-isness. Thus, anything, to persist, must contain a lie.”

    I thought we were dealing in TRUTH.

  71. Hey Marty, here you go.

    “Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?”

    c/ All over the place both with and without bodies. Nowhere near this sector except for brief encounters with the Marcabs.

    First arrived here about 10K years ago. Running an errand for a “friend” when my ship got blown apart. Hung around for a bit then left.
    Came back around 3,000 years ago. Felt like I got a comm from some friends who were in trouble. Figured I’d come down to help out. Found most of them now and we’re doing fine. Might stick around and help a bit more for the next 20 or 30 years. Might stick around for another lifetime to play baseball. Great game. Lot of fun.

    “How did the humanoid form take its current shape?”

    No clue. Seems a combination of genetic engineers working with the raw materials at hand makes the most sense to me. Still got a lot of work to do though. Every time I stress the dumb thing, it breaks.

    Considering my lack of personal track around here, I was pretty amazed at how well OT II, III and NOTs worked.

  72. You fucking crack me up Chuck.

  73. lol, but I have to ask… where did the mud come from?

  74. It’s interesting, what might function as a listing question for some people. When I was a kid (and a typical Aspie case), if someone asked me a social machinery question like “How do you do?” I’d often introvert and puzzle over the ‘right answer’. Aspies don’t dig social machinery, so finding the correct answer seemed awfully important 😉

    But I doubt that asking where they were during a multi-million year time period could be a listing question to anyone. It’s not as if they were at one location for the whole time. Now, asking them where they were at some precise date could be a listing question.

  75. well pale horsey, this one’s for you! It’s been done by Seame Street too:

  76. I think the ratings system is being used (by OSA?) to create upset.

    It doesnt bother me that much as I have been on a lot of sites that have similar systems, but I can clearly see it is not helping anything here.

    It was discovered a few days ago that:

    I can give multiple ratings on different computers/smart phones etc. Or, I can apparently clear out my cookies and rate all day from one computer.
    That combined with that we dont know who is giving ratings really makes it a bad feature, almost suppressive in that it creates entheta and disrupts communication.

  77. When did asking questions become squirrel? LOL
    This is very telling.

    True that going prior to present lifetime may be an out gradient question for some but even our non SC christian reader friend managed to answer them plainly an simply without the urge to put down the one asking.
    Question = curiosity.
    Curiosity is good in my book I don’t care what religion or religionlessness you identify yourself with.
    SC is about knowing how to know.
    Now how are you going to know anything if you are not willing to ask?
    Oh crap I just asked a question. I must be a squirrel.

    SC is the religion of believing that you should religiously not believe but instead ask question in order to know.

    When you accept the 11th commandment “thou shalt not ask questions” you have parted from the road of SC.

    And listing? Listing was not requested.

    A question is a question is a question.

  78. Hmmm. Not sure.
    Answer to 1 is, probably C. Definitely C before 75M years ago. Why here? Lost a bet/dual.

    Answer to 2 is a modified A – Theta/MEST theory applies. The bodies evolved, but it is not a purely mechanical process. I believe that B. kicked it off – there is a design to the way in which bodies evolve. There is something to the idea of a Genetic Entity (GE). To my mind, it is a mindless, raw SURVIVE! theta force.

    As an aside, I find it very interesting the idea that we are MEST (i.e. matter only) that people have. If that were true, we are a collection of atoms that make up a collection of coordinated cells – each one living and dying – that collectively make up this organism called “Us.” Given that we are a huge collection of some 100 TRILLION cells. How can we be “one” person, with “one” viewpoint if there is no ONE unit that is US?

    By the way, I just googled the 100 trillion number. That is astounding, is it not? All working together. Amazing.


  79. Squirrels by definition are people who alter standard tech. Reading a blog cannot possibly be squirreling by definition.

  80. Sorry man I realize I may have come across as an evaluation (this 2 dimension written word) so on second thought, I do read and duplicate your viewpoint. And it’s perfectly fine by me incidentally, just checking your buttons…

  81. Pat, it is not a listing question, because it does not ask for one item. See law #17:
    “The lack of a specific listing question or an incorrect non-standard listing question which doesn’t really call for item will give you more than one item reading on a list.”
    This question is like asking “where were you over the Christmas holidays?”
    Where were you between 75 Million years ago and 200,000 years ago? Come on! 74,999,999 years ago, I said hello to a dinosaur in Utah. 74,999,998.5 years ago, I was in Nevada sharing a fern with a Triceratops.
    65,000,000 years ago, I wondered what the cuss put the lights out. 64,999,995 years ago, I was shivering in a cave. 199,999 years ago, I said “hola!” to my Neandertal neighbor in France. 199,998 years ago, I ate lunch with his brother in Germany.

    This is not a listing question. At all.


  82. Yep, just look at a the loony-birds coming out of their bird nests !!
    You really know how to tweak these cuckoos Marty, man YOU just ask an over the top, dumb-ass, far fetched question like the comic strip you just outlined above and you have the nut-jobs crawling out of the woodwork just to fill you in on their own comic-book type imaginational theories !!

    Wow, just amazing…….

  83. Chuck, have you ever read Alan Watts? I think you’d like him even if you don’t agree with him. Your comment on “recycled” made me think of it.

  84. I personally wouldn’t have gone with question #1 as a means of broaching this hot topic due to the nature of the composite case as expressed in HCOB 30 July 80, The Nature of a Being (to say nothing of the Advanced Level materials and the responsibility of a trained auditor in those materials). The question posed is a sort of Listing and Nulling cum Date/Locate “shotgun”.

    “Reality is proportional to charge off the case” is a fact I’ve gleaned from auditing and being audited. In auditing one accepts the preclear’s answers, “right or wrong”, and it is a maxim that sooner or later the preclear themselves will sort out what happened when and for whom and find their truths.

    Due to the widespread release of esoteric data, “sensational” materials, etc., the questions others may have will need to be addressed, surely. How to address them, either individually or as in the case of this blog, publicly and in a broadshoot is a good question itself.

    Did the OT III incident actually occur? That question is answered individually most properly at the stage of auditing, in session, correctly set up for that Level.

    What I find interesting is the “guffaw” at the idea of it being possible, which can stem from all sorts of reasons. One of these I’ve encountered is that it is “scientifically” absurd. That “science” doesn’t exist except for a campaign of education that has been afoot from the latter part of the ninetheeth and early part of the the twentieth century to guide science to specific conclusions that align with an agenda that “prove” a man arose from mud and is nothing more than another animal, with no soul, no spiritual beingness and a beast to be controlled for the purposes of… well, not sure what exactly but controlled without question (see Chapter 9 of Forbidden Archaeology for the exact words of the “powers that be” over the funding of science, from their own horsey mouths.)

    The biggest ridge I have personally encountered, in myself, and in others, is the “scientific impossibility” of anything like the OT III incident. Looking into that science, I have found there are more holes than cheese and for anybody I encounter now, that “guffaws” at the idea of it on its face, I would enquire as to what make them reject it out of hand and see where that led. If it’s to this false data propagated for some decades now, for less than honest motives, then I’d recommend a new look for that person, including some of the materials now available that show this whole thing, the history of this planet and man to be more than has been pushed for these many decades.

    Again for the “establishment” that has attempted to foist off on this culture a false history I would recommend Hamlet;
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

  85. Reminds me of the “judgement” post of a couple of weeks ago. But, I don’t care. One thing I have noticed on my ride on this Earth is that people will believe ANYTHING. There is a tribe in the south sea islands who believed American GIs were Gods, and they made a religion out of them. There are people who believe Beethoven is a manifestation of millions of years of stimulus/response mindless selection. I am fully aware that I could be very wrong in my beliefs. I read that a computer Scientist a few years ago posited that it is a 99% certainty that this whole entire universe is a program in some cosmic computer.
    So, no one has the 100% answer – and despite the fact that many here are Scientologists who supposedly (by the anti-crowd) are unthinking kool-aid drinkers, there is even a huge variance in what Scientologists think about it.

    Which is cool.


  86. Helmut, one thing I like about you is you don’t beat around the bush. The rest is all incomprehensible gibberish and nasty generalities.

    What does this mean in English? “The post of Marty, amongst a punch of others for quiet a while now, are the reason.” Reason for what?

    What a bunch of balderdash! You are just repeating some nonsense you heard somewhere from some blabbering idiot. “Marty went over the cliff long long time ago (what did he do exactly and when was it?) – probably never came back from being a suppressive WITH Mr. Mismanage – and then “changing sites” (English?) when he realized that he simply is just another very week,very broken, piece in Mr. Mismanage’s perverted game.” What facts specifically make you think that Marty is a weak and broken piece of anything? What did he do specifically?

    I think you and Marty have a lot in common. You make a living auditing people and Marty won the right for you to openly do that. Otherwise, you’d be up to your ass in crocodiles and couldn’t even spew hateful generalities about him on his blog right now.

  87. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    But Helmut, I haven’t seen or heard anybody expressing concern or wondering why you aren’t commenting on this blog.

  88. 1. Always hanging around.
    2. Can’t remember how this was done or how I did it! 🙂
    Biggest problem is loss of memory and the ability to put it all back together again or just start over or maybe just go back to native state. The latter is where I have been and want to stay. No problem helping helping all to get back too.

  89. Then why do you even bother here Helmut, if you’re FREE from it all. Horseshit.

  90. I didn’t read your comment before I posted Christine… like minds. :–)

  91. 1. unloaded/dormant state
    2. not 100% sure but most likely engineered

    Here is some food for thought:
    The answer to #1 very much depends on the interpretation of the word ‘you’. Since the question directs the time to prior to this lifetime, it is not directed at the present life form any of us is being now. Instead it is directed at the spiritual being. Not everyone is equally up to speed on looking or even considering where their spirit was 75M years ago. So you’ll likely get a ‘dunno’ as answer. (or something made up) The question gets hung-up/distorted because it is channeled through the current physical being. The physical being tends to know physical stuff. The physical universe is the most real thing to the physical being so the response will be bent accordingly. To the exact degree the individual feels like he is a physical body. But it’s not like it’s going to kill them to have this question asked. It is only natural that those who have not looked at their spiritual nature will think you are crazy if you ask such questions. But it’s all good:)

    #2 There are some facts that point to the thesis that human bodies were engineered. Consider if you will that every cell of your body has about 3 billion bits of information stored in it. This is about the same information that a CD (compact disc) can hold. About 700MBytes. In every friking cell of your body! An average human body has about 50trillion Cells in it.
    So you are running around with 50 trillion CDs worth of storage just in your DNA. That is 35000000000000000000000 bytes of information.
    That is 35 Zetta bytes as potential storage. Of course the DNA in your cells is the same information. That is each cell carries almost exactly the same 3 billion bits worth of info.

    Now the interesting part: When you look at how the DNA information is stored in the cell and you know anything about computers you should get some goosebumps and hair standing up on your back. That is if you are willing to look and think for yourself. Now I can’t convince anyone that this is proof. Even if I throw in the fact that us and all the animal kingdom share the same DNA structure. People need to look at this and see the facts before they can see if it proves anything at all. But if you look at how much similarities there are between all of us and how computer-like organized it all is then you have to wonder strongly about the engineering theory. Again this is a subjective thing. One has to be willing to look at this and think with what they see.

    Now let me bring in a piece of the old testament:
    ‘I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered’ (Gen. 13:16).

    ‘Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and He said unto him, So shall thy seed be’ (15:5). ‘In blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore’ (22:17).

    What we are looking at here is the “engineer” talking about the small pieces of information which make up or DNA (human genome). Of course this is all as Abraham duplicated it. But the message is clear even from the bible. There are more signs towards engineering than anything else.

    What do I think? Who cares. I have my own little theory but everyone should strive for facts and objective knowledge on these.

    The question that is on my mind is if the engineer who created humans is the same who created the whole darn universe? 🙂

    Not only am I convinced that the human genome is not the result of some random evolution but I think if we look carefully enough at the DNA information we may even find some messages encoded in it.

    Like: “I made you cuz I can LOL”.

    700Mbytes nowadays is nothing. You can’t even buy a USB pen drive that small anymore. What amazes me is how efficiently that 700Mbytes is used to build a whole human body. From one single cell it grows to be a fully operational complex machine. If only Microsoft’s programmers could get a clue from that efficiency. In one hand 700Mbytes is enough for a hole human body. Another can’t even fit their crappy operating system in it. LOL 🙂 🙂

  92. Hi Helmut!

    Glad to know you are doing great! Thank you for all that you do to make the world a better place!

    When Marty asked, “Where were you between ________ and ________, I don’t think he was starting a criminal investigation.

    Those that shot down into terror, please relax. You have the right to remain silent.

    Obviously some people are using thumbs symbols in an attempt to suppress, so what you say may and probably will be held against you in a court of bourgeois.

  93. I don’t think this is the actual Helmut Flasch. It seems as someone is using his name. hmmm????

  94. Really Pat, That is like saying you don’t care for politics on the blog when we are dabbling in politics full blast. The politics of Scientology. There are tons of listing questions asked between humans all day every day all around the world. “What time is it?” is a listing question if you don’t have a watch or cell phone. You might think, “Is it 5 to 1, 1, 4 to 1… how much time has passed since I left the house..?”

    If you can’t remember something it is a comm lag. Hubbard said so. “When was the last time you got your hair cut?” Is a listing question. You might think, “Was it three weeks ago? Ten days ago? Was it on the week end before my job interview?” Whatever goes on is listing unless you just pop up with the answer. That is a comm lag.

    You may have a big protest read on the question but to call Marty a squirrel because he got a protest read and that is a convenient thing to say is just, well, convenient. It isn’t a crime to forget. It isn’t a crime to not care enough to remember. It isn’t a crime to not know. Maybe some people weren’t even keeping time, that isn’t a crime either. And Marty being here and communicating isn’t a crime either. It’s not like he asked the ladies how many people they have f u**ed.

  95. Anononyourside

    I think the thumbs down are for distraction purposes by individuals trolling this blog. I could be wrong but I see no other reason.

  96. Good point. It would be nice if there was a scale for relative agreement / disagreement rather than approval/disapproval.

  97. 1. b and also in other places in and out of bodies.
    2. b Everything here on Earth was genetically engineered by an advanced civilization and transported here. The big twist on Earth is the TIME. People think they are advancing all the time and time is moving forward. This is an antiquated civilization light years behind others. This civilization was thrown BACK in time with a few resources. It is not REALLY even the year 2012 here! There was a time when “Earth Time” was FAR beyond 2012. There are civilizations out there that are already in the year 54,970,82 ! EARTH time is a lie and it is not a Thetan’s time. To answer the question of did it occur over many generations the answer is yes. When? It is still ongoing. Genetic engineering began with the first particle created by a thetan that had life in it.

    Bodies have their own program just like many thetans who land here have their own program. And if it isn’t a case, it’s a mission. That’s right. A mission. There are thetans on a mission here from advanced civilizations. The study of psychophysics is very much in the cradle here but there are civilizations out there that have mastered this to such a degree that a thetan can be tracked by Aura like a fingerprint. My theory on why some people will not go all the way up the bridge, is that they they still want to avoid detection. You can alter your aura by combining with other thetans. It’s a cloaking trick. I mean, if you can’t come up with anything else. Which I can and did. Considering I have no intention of reporting back to The Counsel. . Fuck them. “If they don’t give me proper credit, I just walk away.”

  98. 1 e: Sort of TinCan or other imprison devices (long time). Served put in machines like robots (as slave). Other planets with human like bodies (not very far away from here). On Earth since around 3000 years with human body. But had been on Earth before (slave labor).

    2: I do not know.

  99. I’ve found the responses and discussion fascinating. Only fair that I throw in two cents into the kitty.

    1. Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?
    X e. Other — Not sure. Also, am skeptical of the use of time as an absolute measure. This came out of Newtonian physics. It is an outdated idea — outdated by the facts of physics. We currently know that space-time forms a four-dimensional structure, that this universe is most likely only about 14 billion years old, and that the measure of time and the definition of “now” is dependent on the relative motion of different observers. As one physicist put it, we are all traveling at the speed of light. Why? Because nothing can travel slower. We are either traveling through space or through time — usually some combination of the two. The motion through space-time is a vector that has one level of force (c, speed of light). So you really cannot talk about time in terms of millions or trillions of years in a scientific way without talking about _space-time_. And you cannot talk about trillions of years ago (older than the probable age of the universe) without being forced to assume the existence of earlier or different universes — which may quite possibly have existed in my opinion. However, despite the tenuous scientific grounding of some of the timelines, as a gnostic belief exact dating from a personal framework or belief, fine — just as Christians might believe against scientific evidence that all was created in 6 days and people used to live for centuries.

    2. How did the humanoid form take its current shape?
    a. Evolved over many millennia …. All the current scientific evidence (genetic, anatomical, fossil record, etc.) points to this. There is essentially just one DNA on earth, passed along over a billion years via an unbroken chain of protoplasm. But, to consider the other options:

    b. Evolved by intelligent design of individual thetans …. I find this doubtful. How would different thetans establish such common design?

    c. Created by ancient astronauts. (Sumerian theory) …. there are some interesting things about the human genome. There is an area called HAR1 — a “human accelerated region.” There is a duplicated gene that led to greater brain size. There is a fusion of two chromosomes that other great apes have into one chromosome in humans. It does seem conceivable that someone or some force other than natural selection may have genetically manipulated an human ancestor / great ape to fashion modern humans. We are definitely much more different from all the other great apes than the other great apes are different from one another. We are drastically different in language, culture, technology, and presumably some level of consciousness. However, we still have so many similarities to the other great apes that there is no doubt whatsoever that we share a common ancestor. Heck, even my adorable cats and I are about 27 millionth cousins, probably having shared a den as some distant ancestor before our lines diverged.

    d. Put on earth by God or some other agency …. I can’t rule out this possibility. The fact that I exist whether by evolution or God (or if I have always existed) means that I (and all of us) have received the greatest cosmic gift imaginable.

    e. Other … panspermia theory comes to mind — a seeding, intentional or not, of life throughout the universe. While the mechanisms of evolution are increasingly better understood, evolution does not address the fundamental question of what happened to move inanimate matter to a state of life? Panspermia, like evolution, does not address the question of initial origin of life. Another common idea is that given the right conditions, life and consciousness will arise — this supposes that the universe itself may be imbued with an almost magical ability to self-organize with consciousness then being the universe’s way of looking at itself. Creation by God, while it addresses the question of what initially triggered life, pushes the mystery further back: how did God come to exist? And if the answer to that is “God always existed” then how is that different than asserting that you and I and/or the universe always existed? It is more parsimonious (in the Occam’s Razor sense) to just say the universe is here and we do not understand yet how it got here, and that it may be timeless.

    In fact, that is part of the mystery of space-time. What we humans consider to be time is probably just an illusion, a persistent as it is. I suspect like me, many who have done auditing or even TRs, have popped into that pellucid space of now — an eternal now, the only “time” that may actually exist. For the past, in a four-dimensional framework, we might as well be asking how far away was yesterday? And when is that book I was reading?

    In fact, as advanced as our brains are, we are certainly not the ultimate — that would be the height of arrogance I think. Therefore, we may be a little bit like a dog out for a drive with the owners. Somehow the car moves with nothing visible moving it, makes some noise, and we know as dogs it is incredible. But no matter how much we ponder it, we can’t quite figure it out. Now, that conception is just one way of looking at it, and it runs counter to the gnostic tradition that all knowledge can gained through revelation whether that means religious experience, auditing, etc.

    So ultimately to questions 1 and 2 — I dunno! But not being locked into a position leaves me open to learning and reconsidering assumptions. So I appreciate the questions and discussion.

  100. Sweeney is a bigot? Maybe, but exactly what is a bigot and how does a bigot become a bigot? Did something “key him in”? These questions are worthy of our honest curiosity.
    And as for “Para-Scientology”, here is something LRH has to say about that subject in an essay published in 1953 (Vol II of the Tech Vols) entitled “This is Scientology, the Science of Certainty”:
    …..”Some of the classified bodies of data which fall in para-Scientology are: Dianetics, incidents on the ‘whole track’, the immortality of man, the existence of God, engrams containing pain and unconsciousness and yet all perceptions, prenatals, Clears, character, and many other things which, even closely and minutely observed, still are not certain things to those who observe them. Such things have relative truth. They have to some a high degree of reality; they have to others non-existence.”…..

    So, Sweeney may be pushing a few buttons intentionally, but let’s remember that he had quite a few pushed on him intentionally by the “church” as Mike Rinder confessed to him on the TV special. And those may have been the tip of the iceberg. Maybe he is being a little bit mean to all Scientologists right now by ridiculing part of something that is apparently a part of the religion, but completely unreal bullshit to him.
    In a word, para-Scientology.
    I say cut the guy some slack, i.e. grant him some beingness.

  101. Dear Marty,
    I have three questIons regarding this public survey:
    1) Where were YOU between 75 million years ago, two hundred thousand years ago? You meaning YOU.
    2) How do YOU PERSONALLY feel that the humanoid form took its current shape?
    3) How do you feel about the idea of sharing your honest, PERSONAL thoughts on this apparently controversial subject PUBLICLY?
    I’m listening.

  102. I’m well into Sweeney’s book at the moment. Personally, I think pushes a couple of buttons a bit too heavily: Xenu, as SKM mentioned, and also the “brainwashing” button. Ho hum. Maybe this is sensational for non-Scnists, but those who have been around it’s just plain boring.
    Also, he mentions that Scn is at war with a space alien Satan (aka Xenu). Huh? I totally missed that on III, or maybe it was a confidential closed-door IAS briefing 🙂
    So far, Sweeney has spent very little time on the subject of Scn itself, but seems to concentrate on the organization and its people (and detractors), and how its all very strange.

  103. Gern Gaschoen

    1) 75 million years ago: D. Because: SEX! 200k years ago: A. Because: BOREDOM!

    2) B: It has taken a long time, and the process is not yet finished.

    (Very interesting questions to be asking, I might add .. I’m laughing at the idea of finding some LRH references on this topic, particularly as it pertains to the continuum of Theta and how it is, exactly, that we multiply and reproduce as a consequence of impact with MEST..)

  104. Suggested Survey (for those who have done OTIII):
    1) Do you feel the material contained on OTIII is real or factual?
    a. Yes
    b. Not really, its just a story
    c. Undecided
    d. Doesn’t matter, still got gains from it
    e. Hell no, its a scam

    2) Having auditing the materials of OTIII, do you consider it was worthwhile?
    a. Yes, most definitely
    b. Yeah, it was okay
    c. No, a waste of time
    d. Complete utter nonsense, rip-off

    3) Do you feel the bad conditions on this planet are the direct result of the OTIII incident?
    a. Yes, that is real to me
    b. Could be
    c. Doubtful
    d. Undecided
    e. No, complete nonsense

    4) Do you feel your personal immortality has been secured having audited OTIII?
    a. Yes
    b. Don’t know
    c. No

    5) Do you feel you have assisted mankind by auditing the materials of OTIII? If a. how?
    a. Yes, most definitely
    b. Maybe
    c. Not at all

    I make this suggestion because in Sweeney’s book and elsewhere the tendency is to poo-poo OTIII and hold it up to ridicule. On the opposite end of the scale is Scn Inc’s sacred scripture take on the subject. I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought of it now that they are free to express their opinions.

  105. But if you are wondering how and why I got sucked into this, it’s too simple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n83VFE83kM

  106. I don’t get your point.

  107. fly on the wall

    Helmut. We are all broken. Why should Marty be perfect and right all the time. He’s not. You support Independent scientology. Must it be perfect for you to do so? Have you privately expressed your concern to Marty about his being an opportunist and having gone off the cliff, as you call it? Or is this something just out of your mouth directly into the public arena? If the former, fine. If the latter, then I suggest you should have done the former first and wonder why you did not.
    For the record, I didnt notice anyone asking for you or wondering what happened to you. Sorry.

  108. Great Helmut, you fired Miscavige.
    What now?

  109. 1. Where was I between 75M yrs ago and 200,000 yrs ago? I was here. I’m still here.

    2. How did humanoid form take its current shape?
    B. Spontaneous creation and then evolved since, I believe. I think it started off very simply, but then it became significant, and therefore has been being complicated up ever since.

  110. Dvedhavitakka Sutta from The Pali Canon offers a beautiful account:

    “When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of recollecting my past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, i.e., one birth, two… five, ten… fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand, many eons of cosmic contraction, many eons of cosmic expansion, many eons of cosmic contraction & expansion: ‘There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.’ Thus I remembered my manifold past lives in their modes & details.”

    The whole discourse at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html


  111. I guess I should have said it is not the best environment for ME to communicate deep seated ideas or beliefs. It obviously is fine for others. To answer this question, I would prefer an auditing session, not an arena where people will rate my answer.

  112. martyrathbun09

    1. e
    2. e
    3. Fine.

  113. 1. I didn’t call Marty a squirrel. I called the question f’ing squirrel. If you can’t tell the difference I suggest you consult a dictionary.
    2. Sorry but calling a listing question for what it is, is in no way similar to politics.
    3. Final suggestion: read up on listing & nulling.
    4. Discussion over. I’ll not be responding to any further comments regarding what I wrote. I stand by it and have no need to defend myself to you or anyone else.

  114. Having audited quite many pcs and having been audited myself, I don’t think you can fully rely on session recall. Mostly, because you are interested in taking off charge, force and thus, signification is very secondary. Whatever significance you put on a mass, the interesting thing is the blow of mass. At the same time, if it as-ises, it must be true. Also, there are so many time tracks available that one might get confused.
    But I remember, as a child, strongly believing I was not from this planet or universe and strongly wondering why I was living in a family and/or civilization that had nothing to do with me. These feelings stopped when I met scn and found people similar to me . The only certainty I had when a child was that I belonged to another universe as I felt very different from people from earth, which means I was feeling very , very lonely and was regarded by others as “weird”.
    Regarding your questions, I will answer with no real certainty.
    1 d came on earth to help
    2 d ????
    The battle of France is going on !!!!!!!!!

  115. martyrathbun09

    It is fascinating.

  116. martyrathbun09

    You posit, “Did the OT III incident actually occur?” A simple read of the comments to the last post will demonstrate that you opened that can of worms, completely non-sequitur to the topic of the post. To compound matters, that posited question has zero to do with the intention of this current post – and yet here you are opening it up again. Thus this backhanded black PR, “(to say nothing of the Advanced Level materials and the responsibility of a trained auditor in those materials)”, is equally non-sequitur. Your propensity for mocking it up – along with the back channels intrigue that goes along with it – is creating disharmony and strife out of nothing. Give it a break.

  117. He had a lot of opportunities to learn for himself the difference of the organisation and its tricks and the core of Scientology Philosophy.
    Of course I grant him beingness; if I didn’t I wouldn’t write about him.
    I just don’t agree with his generalizations.
    He pushes his “para-scientological” convinctions on the media out of ignorance.
    He can reach for Scientology and find something he could agree with. But no… he is a Worthy English Gentleman.

  118. ^^ me too

  119. Theta uses Mest to create Lambda.

  120. 1. e. Probably Tesco – as it takes about that long to get through the checkout.

    2.e. there is no humanoid shape.

  121. portland85,
    Thanks for the addition. Time for a paean of joy!

    “Wisdom is best the good confess,
    Like the moon in starry skies;
    Virtue, fortune, righteousness,
    Are the handmaids of the wise.”
    Jataka #402


  122. Gail Paige, Yes I agree. There are more thumbs down on comments than any posting on Marty’s blog that I have seen so far. For anyone who got a thumbs down, it is a wrong indication. If you made any comment at all, you had the strength of character to express your thoughts and for that I admire you and thank you for your contribution.

  123. It seems there are more thumbs down than any posting, at least that I have seen so far. For anyone who got a thumbs down about their recollection or opinion of the history of man, it is a wrong indication. If you made any comment at all, you had the strength of character to express your thoughts and for that I admire you and thank you for your contribution. Thumbs up.

  124. If it had the same “Like” system as facebook, there would be a screen name connected to the thumbs…that would be the correct way to do a rating system.

  125. That’s ME, giving myself a thumbs-up 😉

  126. 1. B (not he entire time) and C.
    2. D. It is an obvious design for the PU.

  127. 1. Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?
    I’m about to start some auditing that may give me more insight into this…we’ll see. Right now, I’m really not sure of any answer, but leaning towards C.
    2. How did the humanoid form take its current shape?
    I’m leaning towards B on this one, just from my own recollections and from auditing others on theirs. No idea when.

  128. Completely agree with you Robert. Quite a lot of this thread reminds of when I was in the (Dutch) Reformed Church. The members were all too willing to point out the sins of others. I guess 2000 Years of Christianity have installed very hard to break habits. Grin.

  129. Answer to Where were you?
    1) C & D
    Interested in Earth: responsibility point for creating MEST and for “game” turned sour. Helping others who got stuck to get out.

    2) A & B
    MEST created and continuance postulated on time stream.Create was instant, but “Evolution” is the result of postulated creation, taking on own survival and resulting complexity.

  130. Good observation Gail. Thank you for that.

  131. Ron, I read your story.
    And all those things happened to me and lots others (take a few moments to cry). It’s OK.
    Because and only because…. We will get thru it.
    Born and raised in Sitka

  132. Indeed 🙂 Probably be it in one’s own universe or in the outward one what´s correct for one might be incorrect for another. That makes the beauty and heat of some forum exchanges, viewpoint sharing or group bank (dis)agreements – fascinating, yes. Kind of questions that makes one wonder if the static is having a walk on some time track, life after life or the static just is and it´s the physical universe that evolves ´around´ one.

  133. I agree Robert. Thank you for posting and on behalf of Gail.
    Gail hugs and XOXO 🙂

  134. @Michael,
    yes, it is very interesting. I’m sure there are mutual incidents of great magnitude which have harmed us all. However, is the time track of theta which Ron has tried to lay out for us the only way to look at it? I doubt it. I do wonder about a comment that LRHubbard Jr made in an interview. He said that his dad was running everyone on HIS CASE and that people should run their own case. I acknowledge that “Nibbs” had sufficient reason to bad mouth his dad, yet this struck me as true because Ron had to run his own case first to figure what to look for in others.

    Personally, I have felt that the OT levels and what they can achieve have been made way too much of a mystery and, in part, it was done to create the mystery sandwhich…to keep pulling thetans up the bridge. Perhaps this was necessary. I am not invalidating the fact that specific things can’t key in a person’s case, but the general knowledge of incidents on the track isn’t going to be harmful. My own auditing has ridden me of tons of case that without the auditing, I would have still unknowingly been dramatizing. That being said, are there other signficant spots of a thetans existence which have had equal or more negative impact than what Ron has given us on the OOT Levels? Maybe. Of course, I think it is only smart to do what he says first. After ot8, and full training, then there is time for reasearch (’cause I don’t believe for one minute that there is more than OT8 available within the church, and I think only part of that is being delivered).

    I think where a person is on the bridge is important in surveys because that would help determine any possible patterns of answers. For instance, do OT’s have more certaintly on their answers as compared to folks who are on the lower bridge? Are the answers of OTs similar to each others?

    Talking about our opinions and experiences is a good thing because it shows the individual views and it might lead to answers as to why some people seem to do very well with their upper bridge auditing and some, despite wearing their pc hat, do not do well. Different tracks?

    I say there are no ‘dog pcs’, and if this is true, then the outpoints would have to be in the area of training auditors and c/s’s. And, this would lead to Qual not doing its job etc. The other view is that the workability of the tech is limited in that it does not hit everyone’s case. My guess is that the duplication factor, even before DM, has always been a huge factor in Scientology tech and admin. DM got one thing right: “The blind leading the blind” is an affliction of the organization even without his ‘help’ in attempting to bind us all !

  135. I would appreciate your participation in the following two question survey. Please provide answers by consulting your own current understanding, without reference to other published materials or views or doctrines of anyone else.

    Where were you between 75 million years ago and two hundred thousand years ago?
    a.On Earth, in and out of pre homo-sapiens forms, evolving animal bodies into human bodies.

    2. How did the humanoid form take its current shape?

    b. Evolved by intelligent design of individual thetans, over many generations of body building and modification? When–no answer.

  136. OOPS. sorry, I should have said CAN key in a person’s case in paragraph 2.

  137. Tatiana,

    From my observation of past events, you are pretty much on target.

    I will use the commonly known names of items so as not to become
    overlong in explaining the names used at the time of the events.

    Planetary explosion between Mars and Jupiter creating asteriod
    belt and remaining debris as rings and odd shaped moons of other

    Earth brought into the solar system and positioned in present
    location for biological entities that would advance to a level
    as hosts for beings to be incarcerated.

    Migration of small serving population from Mars to Earth.

    This is just a short cycle of events.


  138. Actually, it was “opened up” by various and sundry media, including the article referred to here, on your blog, by Tony Ortega re John Sweeney, by, you.

    Your question about “75,000,000 years ago” in light of the topics you referred to, the Ortega article and considering Sweeney’s various comments, including his recent “mockumentary” video on the “space alien cathedral” among other juicy bits would, to consider your comment here, be all disrelated, and I’m merely “mocking it up”.

    Pennie’s dropped.

  139. martyrathbun09

    Lyrics, for those who cannot get past the genre, race and dress of the artist:
    “Mr. Intentional”

    Yeah, yeaaayh, yeah heh, yeah heh, yeah heh…
    See the road to hell, is paved with good intentions
    Can’t you tell, the way they have to mention
    How they helped you out, you’re such a hopeless victim
    Please don’t do me any favors, Mr. Intentional
    All their talk, is seasoned to perfection
    The road they walk, commanding your affection
    They need to be needed, deceived by motivation
    An opportunity, to further situation
    Why they so important, is without explanation
    Please don’t patrionize me, Mr. Intentional
    Oh, ohhh, ohh ohhh
    We give rise to ego, by being insecure
    The advice that we go, desperatly searching for
    The subconscious effort, to support our paramour
    To engage in denial, to admit we’re immature
    Validating lies, Mr. Intentional
    Open up yours eyes, Mr. Intentional
    Stuck in a system, that seeks to suck your blood
    Held emotionally hostage, by what everybody does
    Counting all the money, that you give them just because
    Exploiting ignorance, in the name of love
    Stop before you drop because that’s just the way it was
    Please don’t justify me, Mr. Intentional
    Oh undimensional, Mr. Intentional
    Ohhh, oh don’t you do me any favors
    Ohhh, ohhhh, ohh ohhhh
    Wake up you’ve been sleeping
    Take up your bed and walk
    Stop blaming other people
    Oh it’s nobody else’s fault
    Except the truth about you
    You know that life goes on without you
    And your expensive misinventions
    Disguising your intentions
    Don’t worship my hurt feelings, Mr. Intentional
    Oh, oh oh oh
    See I know you can’t help me, Mr. Intentional
    The only help I need to live, is unprofessional
    The only wealth I have to give, is not material
    And if you need much more than that, I’m not available
    Please don’t entertain me, Mr. Intentional
    Oh I dont need your sympthy, Mr. Intentional
    Stay away from me, Mr. Intentional
    So undimensional, Mr. Promotional, Mr. Emotional, Mr. Intentional
    Ohhh ohhhh, ohhhh

  140. statpush,

    OT III is not an event that all residence on Earth,
    once called Tijok, have gone through. However, a greater
    portion of current humanity are the unfortunate effect
    of this event as observed by the distortion and out-ethics
    events and action on almost all the 8 dynamics.

    The time frame given in the materials are Earth time
    computations. The locations are correct when one
    looks at the locations of land masses, that have shifted
    over time, as given for the period designated in the

    A greater understanding of the materials can be accomplished
    when one knows the data of valences, life continuum, service
    facsimilies, overts, motivators, theta bodies and genetic

    In September 22, 2011, programming on the History Channel
    presented “Aliens and Deadly Weapons” which featured
    the writings of the Hindu Mahabharata describing weapons
    reminiscent of guided rockets, beam weapons and
    nuclear devices used by the gods.

    Now, are the events on this level verified fact or fiction?
    You and others are the only ones who have the answer hidden
    or not below your current awareness level.

    Are the materials on this and other OT Levels beneficial
    for the individual striving for Total Freedom?
    Yes indeed!

    “A person is Clear on the first dynamic.
    It is necessary, to become OT, to be cleared on all dynamics,
    including that of society and that of the physical universe.”
    – Ron’s Journal 67 20 September 1967

    In closing this reply, I borrow from LRH, concerning my
    own caseless state of being –

    I will see you up the line, at the other end of the Bridge.


  141. Marty,

    You are quite the Thetan and this is a great
    theta game.

    1. e

    2. e

    Thank you and all who are involved in bring

    “In the opinion of the viewpoint, any beingness, any
    thing, is better than no thing, any effect is better than no
    effect, any universe better than no universe, any particle
    better than no particle, but the particle of admiration is
    best of all.”
    – from THE FACTORS

    In the realm of the spirit
    We take no action, but leave nothing undone.

    Another Tao insight.

    Happy New Year to all who read and comment
    on your sight,


  142. It is very interesting, that you are saying. Where are you getting your data from? I remember mine and add to it lots of fantasy transforming into a story. But all my memories are from the personal story angle – a love story. So I remember better the personal details of events changing my life and the lives of close ones, and I am lucking a bigger picture of arrangements. Though, remember some that would be enough to write a book, should I be able to write. I remember that Earth was put in place in a harry, as the planet where we were supposed to live got blown up.Parts of it were used to create earth and moon. And that at the beginning the level of theta on the planet was too low.

  143. Very interesting survey. Will be intrigued to see results of this.

    “I make this suggestion because in Sweeney’s book and elsewhere the tendency is to poo-poo OTIII and hold it up to ridicule. On the opposite end of the scale is Scn Inc’s sacred scripture take on the subject. I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought of it now that they are free to express their opinions.”

    Wasn’t it Hubbard’s order from the very beginning to make all the OT levels confidential and not corporate CO$? OT levels were never discussed openly with people who didn’t reach that level. Snc Inc. then had no choice but to call them ‘sacred scriptures’ whe the OTIII materials got leaked out.

  144. Regarding the rating system there is an option to allow only positive ratings. Then there would be a possibility to quickly ack the post without chance to intentionally create an upset. But on the other hand, without rating system the way to ack is to comment, and there, when some wish, they can put their thumbs up: +1 or +10 or whatever they wish. 🙂

  145. I am sensing that we – as population of Earth – are getting close to the end of (not the world :)) but a cycle of action. A big game is coming close to the end of finished puzzle. This is why a look toward the beginning of it creates an interest, or indicates the item that interest is already there and high. It is a hot item, how it all started because it is about to end (resolve, not to dye).

  146. Looking 4 Myself

    1)c. I’ve always had an affinity for Sci-Fi and space exploration in particular and my gut tells me I was involved in Space Opera. I have no reality on when I came to Earth but I have always had a bit of a rebellious streak to me so I was probably banished to here more than likely.
    2)My guess would be “b” and it probably occurred over generations on a trial and error basis.

  147. Truth, I agree. The post is not under his usual handle, “for Boskone”, and the grammar, syntax, and spelling is way off. I suspect the trolls are swarming out from under the bridge.

  148. That’s fine, just do yourself a favor and revisit the Laws of L&N.

  149. Got it.

  150. A crazy love.

  151. Anyone see the A=A here? A=A= 75,000,000 mentioned somewhere else = you are doing the same thing! = flying elephants (why not)
    Very telling.

    Can we look at some facts?
    Fact 1: A question containing a number was mentioned only.
    Fact 2: The number might have been used somewhere else.
    Fact 3: Fact 1 & 2 does not mean anything other than fact 1 & 2.
    Fact 4: Those who imply they do not only show how much A=A they have.
    Fact 5: The questioner was not the one bringing up the subject which should not be mentioned on a forum of random mix.

    I knew someone is bound to come undone and mention tech stuff.
    So very frikin’ predictable.
    As a matter of fact such questions could be used on a forum to see who can keep it together and who will use it to insinuate/attack.

  152. Did the OT III incident actually occur?

    I think that is like asking if a car accident happened in Seattle last week.
    If you were sun blaming in Miami at the time, how could you know? If you were in a head head on collision in Seattle, then you would have a different take.

    I think it occurred for someone if they said it did.

  153. Tatiana,

    I understand that part of you writing was fantasy.

    However, now lets give this a big thetan observation.

    Most of what one calls fantasy is a combination of
    direct or indirect observation assembled and encoded
    with a significance about the event(s) borne upon
    a wavelength of logic and the desire of havingness
    and understanding.

    So the fantasy (phantasy) can be the rudiment of
    a true cognition.

    Take LRH space opera fiction for example.
    This is definitely whole track recall that
    he might not have been fully aware of at the
    time of writing.

    Decades ago, I stated to a person on the
    upper OT Levels that we were actually running
    an inverted timelime and travelling toward our
    past and calling it our progress toward the future.
    He told to mention that to too many people and
    that I knew too much,

    Most never see, for example, the lead in advertising
    for George Lucas’ STAR WARS of 1977:
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away …
    It’s popularity is based on the audience’s
    recall and/or restim and a longing for answers
    from long ago that caused current negative condition.

    Is your writing fantasy or recall that is structured
    with a creative significance? Take a closer look and
    you may find the answer.

    As I have stated earlier, most sci-fi and space opera
    are whole track recall and, in most instances,
    very theraputic for the writer.

    Another example of whole track appeared in the
    1990 film TOTAL RECALL, a loose adaptation of the short story
    “We Can Remember It for You Wholesale” by Philip K. Dick.
    I took someone who was on the Comm Course at a local
    Scn Mission and when the film was over I look straight
    at her and Tone 40 stated, “Now. When are you
    going to wake up from this dream?”
    The dream of currect existence solidified on a dwindling spiral.

    The dimension points are each and everyone, whether
    large or small, solid. And they are solid solely because
    the viewpoints say they are solid.
    – The Factors

    Your question: Where are you getting your data from?
    A vivid recall on 11 July 1954 between 13:00-14:30,
    several such recalls over the following decades as more
    data surfaced, and recalls stated by others without
    my suggestion on any of the data I knew.



  154. True. But then there are those who thumbs up/down based on emotions. People tend to form opinions of others early on and that opinion rarely ever changes. So for instance in my case I have stepped on some toes before and those with a throbbing toe will give me Thumbs down the moment they see a single item of my writing they don’t agree with. (or don’t understand) It is almost impossible for such person to give thumbs up. They will either give nothing or Thumbs down. It takes much dedication to counter the urges of early opinion forming. It is a stuck condition of the individual. It’s all in the cards. Just look at the overall stats and ignore the 1-2 T downs. They can’t help it. Consider it background noise.

  155. Tatiana,

    Yes, we are coming to the completion of a cycle.

    This is written in many ancient texts as
    the vanishing of darkness by light in the
    areas of humankind. It is a division of
    ignorance and stupidity by knowledge and truth of

    A cycle mentioned in these texts goes from
    the Divine producing the utterly physical,
    partaking of the physical through experience in it,
    and emerging again as pure Spirit.
    in short, the being experiencing itself through
    the creation it has made. This is sort of an
    endless or infinite reflection that starts
    and ends with self much like the relection of
    self when one stands between two mirrors.
    It is infinity and you observe yourself and
    finally “Know Thyself”.


  156. This is probably one of the most fun filled
    postings of all time.

    I was under the impression that there is
    a War between Theta and MEST and not a War
    between Thetans (joke). War between Thetans?
    Oh yes. That’s how the MEST Universe came
    into existence and alter-isingly persists
    as a flimsy trap.

  157. Anybody up to a few Glare Fights after this section completes.

    Perhaps an invasive partaking of a theta beer after the game.

    Should be fun.

  158. So right on “no one has the 100% answer”. But that does not stop those who like to pretend they know from alluding others. Some people pretend they know the answer so well that they convince others that it is true. Some of these people create religions. As the number of believers grows the harder it gets for any individual to actually think for themselves. It is a funny cycle really.

    Took me a while to rid my self of the illusions of others on this subject and realize exactly what you said.

    The thing about SC is that some people are just not getting it that it is not really a religion. LRH regrettably made it into a religion supposedly for tax reasons and who knows what else. But by definition it does not seem like a religion to me. A religion would require one to believe which is to say accept some fundamental views common to fellow believers. Accepting without verification is illogical. LRH wanted people to think for themselves. All logic. But there are those who can’t. No matter how nice you are to them. Such people will look at LRH materials and take it literally instead of thinking with it and using it. They will then either become a worshiper or LRH hater. Those who get the tech will be neither. They will just be using it and be grateful for it.

  159. Hi Marty,
    I really don’t see how this is a reply to Jim’s comment. I see that you and him apparently are not seeing eye to eye on some things, but I feel this is sort of a poor handling for his originations. It seems to me that you guys were friends at one point. I don’t know what happened and I guess it’s not really my business, but I thought I would pass on my opinion since this is a blog. I can see handling someone who was always sort of a pain, in the way you handled Jim here, not someone who has been in your own corner.

  160. Thank you, Jewel. I agree with you in so many ways. To the point that there are no dog PCs so the C/S or the auditor are to blame, I would add one thing. We operate within a general one size fits all LRH C/S which is called The Bridge. Well, that’s the first culprit right there. Whatever PC wants handled is invalidated but instead he is being artificially keyed into cersain things and then keyed out. It helps him but not as much as addressing his top interest items and handling the hell out of them, changing his condition for real.

  161. This is a test
    (wonder why the beautiful video didn’t show up first time)

  162. Wher was I before earh?

    Have fun!

  163. Yes, I call it for myself an “awakeing”. Not for all the people and not for all the games. I am feeling that my is getting close to the end. Somebody not involved won’t even notice anything.

  164. Thank you for your answer, and for concern. I do treat my memories or fantasies with respect, actually. I do not invalidate it, not even evaluate much – take it as it comes and acknowledge, as if an auditor in session. I notice that “remembering” activities increase with a full moon, which I love to look at. I think it reflects from the sun the softer and easier to adjust nourishing light. It feels like I am going to wake up and to remember whether I wanted it or not, with or without Scientology help, simply because a “time’s up”. I wouldn’t say that the era of stupidity and ignorance is about to end. I’d call it a childhood is about to be over, – the beautiful time when we can perceive easily everything in a new unit of time, as if we never knew that before. We can play and learn, we can fall in love “for the first time”, we could experience a lot of things writing on a “white paper”. But this wonderful period is about to end with awaking to the awareness of who we really are in a whole sense of it.

  165. Hey Marty,

    I surmise this is more data for Book 3, right?

    Wow, this conjures-up lots of knowingness & much curiosity of whats to come!

    1. d.

    2. b.

    Can’t wait!

    ML, M

  166. Wait-a-minute…. you said “hola” to your neandertal neighbor in France 199,999 years ago??? But that word hadn’t come into use until the development of modern Spanish.

    Yes, I am just teasing you 😉

  167. OMG, Valkov, thanks for that! I had not seen it. As a music teacher, I LOVE this song as an accessible means of teaching grade school students the concept of parody and satire. First we learn “On Top of Old Smokey” and delve into the details and meaning of the song. Then we study the human joy (and coping mechanism) of making fun of serious subjects by finding or creating something to laugh about.

    Thank you for sharing that. I think I’ll play it for my 2nd graders tomorrow morning. 😀


  168. Troll. People rarely spell their wife’s name incorrectly, even when drunk.

  169. Instructions: “DON’T READ THE COMMENTS! Just scroll down and click thumbs down on most of them randomly.”

  170. What is the problem with discussing old shoes, rappers and cosmologies? One of the many things I love about Marty’s choice of blog subjects is his variety and choice of subjects that do not confine the conversation to Scientology and LRH quotes.

    There is an unstated requirement within Scientology culture that tacetly agrees that discussion among Scientologists must reference LRH writings or Scientology in some way. Is that why you object to a discussion about Van Gogh’s work and that of a rapper?

    What do these subjects have to do with Scientology? Perhaps nothing, and perhaps everything.

    Frankly, I love that Marty does not hold LRH’s words as definitive evaluations for the ALL of human existence. Or, if he does, he allows/encourages discussion that debates such a notion. Marty does not censure discussion of personal thoughts the way our friendly neighborhood Ethics Officer restricts discussion and speculation to that which can be documented within the bounds of Scientology language and culture.


  171. Jim’s “comment” was an alter is, it wasn’t an origination. He translated Marty’s question onto a whole different track. That is like giving someone a wrong item, not only the person who made the first origination, but to all that read the altered translation.

  172. Content blocked 😦

  173. Is the DNA thing your own honest opinion or you think you might be – even if ever so slightly – influenced by the main stream science “think”?
    The reason I ask is that main stream scientists should be handled carefully.
    I would recommend keeping an open mind.
    Some are great thinkers and would never lie while others live a lie themselves. The evidence they present can be interpreted in different ways and there is no sure way to know. They tend to be very protective of their territory and do not welcome challenging questions. Understandable as some of these questions which throw their whole theory into question can make them feel very insecure. To give an extreme example most mainstream scientist would oppose your findings if you were to discover messages encoded into the DNA. They would probably brush it off with some explanation like “oh sure with the appropriate algorithm we could find the national anthem encoded in there too. Laughter! ” They would use their influence and status to make you the laughing stock of the scientific community. Then after their “stay on” passed your discoveries would find new ears. This has been the cliche of the scientific arena for ever. So think for yourself is my advise and please don’t take offense. I don’t mean to say you haven’t done so already. But jut give it some thought and see if there are any influences that may not be proven. To me the existence of the DNA is a screaming (2×4 in the eye obvious) sign of engineering. I recommend looking at the facts and comparing it to computer technology instead of listening to opinions of others. (including mine of course)

  174. W-w-w-wait! You left out my Flying Spaghetti Monster cosmology!

    (Hurt feelings)

    Still, I will venture a response. There is no point in being passionate about that which is indisputable, such as the law of gravity. We get all het up about beliefs, especially those beliefs that our experiences prove to us but cannot be replicated for observance of others. The ser-fac seems to be oriented around avoiding self-invalidation as a continuation of invalidation by others. The “If it’s true for you….” postulate opens the door to anything and everything, and anyone who disputes another’s “truth” is denying their reality and thus their beingness and existance. Therefore, if you disagree with someone, KABOOM! – you’ve gotcherself a ser-fac! Bad you!

    So, any dispute you have with my Pastafarianism invalidates my personal truth, and that makes you wrong, wrong, WRONG!

    My thoughts: Are we really so fragile that we cannot disagree without losing our beingness?

    Oh, and I am willing to have a food fight on behalf of Spaghetti! Wanna play?


  175. Hi O,
    Whether Jim is right or wrong, I think a better communication to him would end cycle on whatever is going on. Maybe Jim could decipher the meaning of Marty’s reply? I sure couldn’t.

  176. Misha, that is called “Life Repair” and is addressed and handled before the MAGOR action (which grade or other step on the Bridge are). Nothing wrong with a Bridge – one Bridge for all. People are not walking on it identically. They show different interest in the different processes, and even the same process runs differently on different people, brings different cognitions etc. People have different area flat or heavily charged, maybe the whole grades. But when the auditing is not done intensively, then even when pc was properly set up for the auditing (all sticking out hot items handled with Life Repair), life interferes and new things cry for handling before the next major action. I can’t say about OT levels, but lower Bridge is arranged nicely and does fit the almost if not “all” cases with a correct approach.

  177. I agree with you about Ron running his own case and OT levels as mystery sandwhich. Anyway Lrh was brilliant enough to warn us that if it’s not true for us, it’s not true and if it’s true for us is true. For me many datas are not true (even crazy) but some are very useful. I just take those that give me more space. 🙂

  178. Correctly setting people up for an OT level is mercy. Making sure they have done the solo checksheets and completed all requirements, making sure the person has all the set ups and OT preps. Yes, I can tell that is very important, mercy. To just hand someone the materials that is not trained on solo, who had not had set ups or OT preps, or a review if needed, is indeed cruel.

  179. What does “It seems like it was initially a created energy form that evolved down the line.” mean?

  180. This is by far the worst post I’ve run into on this blog. I don’t see any usefulness for it all in any way shape or form.

  181. Question 1: C or D. I came here around 8 – 10 K years ago… my group was here solely to observe the native inhabitants, and to record our observations. What we would now call scientific research…. although, then it was more of an archive, and under NO circumstance were we to make ourselves known. Of course, I had to communicate, so I was “punished” by being forced into a body, and have been loving these bodies ever since. My memory of my time just before having a body on earth was that we didn’t have bodies, as archivists, but we were very capable of manipulation of mest. We could carve out sides of mountains as our base. Most archiving was done electronically via intention. I think that was why I was so enthralled with these independent bodies….

    Question 2: At this time, I really don’t know the answer to that. Studying the body now, I’m inclined to believe it’s definitely not of this earth… but, that was why I came here in the first place, to study the bodies. I have to say maybe somewhere between B and C. At this time in my journey, I can’t say that I know for sure. Hope this helps!

  182. Sounds like this is great place for you to write comments to people to tell them how “wrong” they’ve been your whole life.

  183. With all due respect I think this type of posting will turn away many of the people you are trying to reach. IMHO the blog is best suited and most effective for a) whistle blowing b) indie announcements.

    For what it’s worth my answers to both survey questions are “f” for who gives a fuck.

  184. 1. c – came to this planet off and on, thousands ago. Finally got stuck here hundreds ago – came here to stop spirit being overcome by material (robot slave-society pattern all over again) – finally broke body-in-pawn connection in 2010, which had been the consequence and punishment for last time I got caught doing this (was not present during ’75 million’ incident, although earlier, similar incidents, yes)
    2. c (with strong influence of b – they copied from earlier, successful patterns that thetans had developed on other, similar planets)

  185. Hi Gail.
    Ya that is someting far and hard to come by. I see Marty fixed it. Thanks Marty.

  186. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    Valkov and Truth: I feel most likely that is Helmut’s writing. That is exactly how he writes. I have seen personally how he writes. His grammar, syntax and spelling is always off (at least in the English language) unless he first gets someone to edit his writings or unless he does some proofreading himself, which obviously wasn’t done here. And I don’t feel independent Scientologists would want to assist Helmut in writing hostile stuff towards Marty; so there you have it. Helmut can publish a clarification of these comments anytime if he didn’t write them.

  187. 1. D
    2. B. I clearly remember an incident of designing a human body a long time ago. Which I believe was for earth. The body was meant to evolve and adapt to living situations here by itself and modify as needed to survive over time/generations. I don’t remember the the intelligent” part tho — it was more like a game/competition — or at least that was my viewpoint — only to learn later that they’d be used to trap thetans later on.

  188. I’m interested in why Marty started this survey? What are you trying to find, Marty?
    The past is the past and is only useful to find data in order to find how to do something with MEST. Which does snot mean that one should not enjoy easily recallable times of pleasure on the track..
    How about it, Marty, what’s the purpose of this survey?

  189. Interesting question Marty……

    Dave is the name. I’ll do my best.

    First question: As best I can tell without the knowledge gained from auditing. I’d say “c.” maybe “d” can’t be certain right now……. As to why? I make waves, I ask questions, and can be stubborn…. this doesn’t mix well with a “slave” like society. I don’t always mix well with the whole “group think” deal. adventuresome spirit, is what I possess… AkA : a rebel.

    Second question: I think c. is the answer again……… but I’m open to some other thoughts. The whole Darwin deal, seem like a dead end, How does Darwin explain the pyramids? or the Moon ?? I just don’t see it. Maybe in some small ways we “evolve” but the theory has huge holes in it. At least for me.

  190. Hi Michael,
    I have to agree with Tatiana, even on the OT levels, only because I know of no other way to skin the cat so to speak. A C/S should be able to tailor make a c/s for the pc as there are ways to do this all the way up the bridge to some degree. Just assessing interest or going where the pc wants is workable in Self Analysis and book one, but after that, I think there are enough processes to handle anything. But, if people don’t get what they want handled, then it is either due to bad c/sing or maybe the one bridge does not work for all beings. I really couldn’t say 🙂

  191. @Oracle: Agreed!

  192. LRH’s Bridge (of 1978 or earlier) is not the culprit. The culprit is the one who does not duplicate the person in front of him telling him what he/she wants handled. Therefore a C/S cannot write a suitable program for that person.

  193. Tory Christman

    1) e
    2) e
    “It’s Top Secret”
    Rotflol! 🙂 TLC

  194. Oh you’re very welcome! I meant to also say it’s been done by Sesame Street, a video with Muppets singing. Also on Youtube.

  195. 1c. Not here during these time periods, but back 2,100 years ago.

    Before that, was done with no-win situations games … time to move on … this place was selected from various views as a not too-bad-a-break from the worn-down and tired (and a completely different game). And despite all the pettinesses, this microcosm is actually quite OK. It’s just game viewpoints, from which one can direct. Heavy impinging reality game.

    2e. Endless chains of evolutions and engineerings (includes plants & other organisms too) which always has been and always will be trans- & crossports to suit whatever environment project(s), business, restocks (Terraforming), R & D, Testing, etc.

    Animated creations continuously modified for suitabilities/demand. This place, like many others out there, has been dusted and restocked a zillion times. Iron-cores go with these type forms, variations of Asian types the most pervasive (most popular, come & go business people). Caucasian = engineered here. Black = mostly environmentally-formed from others, been here the longest without exterior influences.

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