The following poem was written by Thich Nhat Hanh, a Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk. Do you believe the poem reflects:
a) a poetic variation of L. Ron Hubbard’s chapter on responsibility in Advance Procedures and Axioms?,
b) a transcendent awareness of the connectedness of collective spirit, or the theta universe.
c) the dramatization of an implant or some other incident.
d) something else.
Do not say that I’ll depart tomorrow
because even today I still arrive.
Look deeply: I arrive in every second
to be a bud on a spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with wings still fragile,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.
I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
in order to fear and to hope.
The rhythm of my heart is the birth and
death of all that are alive.
I am the mayfly metamorphosing on the surface of the river,
and I am the bird which, when spring comes, arrives in time
to eat the mayfly.
I am the frog swimming happily in the clear pond,
and I am also the grass-snake who, approaching in silence,
feeds itself on the frog.
I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks,
and I am the arms merchant, selling deadly weapons to
I am the twelve-year-old girl, refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean after being raped by a sea
and I am the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and
I am a member of the politburo, with plenty of power in my
and I am the man who has to pay his “debt of blood” to, my
dying slowly in a forced labor camp.
My joy is like spring, so warm it makes flowers bloom in all
walks of life.
My pain is like a river of tears, so full it fills the four oceans.
Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and laughs at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.
Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart can be left open,
the door of compassion.
Thich Nhat Hanh
You can read about the author’s interesting life here at wikipedia.
d. It says what it says. Beautiful art such as this doesn’t deserve to be interpreted by ticking a box.
Hindu and Buddhist philosophy argue that the only truth is in Brahman, which can also be called the supreme consciousness or collective spirit (total theta.) All else is illusory as it is ever changing and impermanent (MEST.) Atman, or thetan, is part of Brahman just as thetan is part of theta (see factors, axioms.) A being is part of the collective consciousness and as such are fully responsible and fully aware. A being (thetan or Atman) can become aware of this total freedom and illumination with respect to all theta or Brahman (also being OT.)
The answer is that LRH wrote about many truths in the basics, as have Hindu and Buddhist philosophies…just different words. Truth is truth.
The answer is a and b
It’s the ultimate responsibility! Oh yes, I love it!!!!
Changing your words just a bit: A keen awareness of the connectedness of collective spirit.
Beautiful poem. I would say both (b) and (a). I had a similar experience 6 months before finding Scientology.
This answer may not help you, but I think it has elements of A,B,C and D.
Such is man.
Ultimately I think all is a creation of the spirit, including attitudes about life and “transcendent awareness”. There are no states to reach, only your willingness to experience that which is already within you.
In my opinion it is the viewpoint of a Boddhisattva.
A mix of A) B) & D)
Though I myself don’t believe in a “collective spirit”, I believe in a spiritual (theta) universe and that beings are influencing each other (wittingly or unwittingly, depanding on their “frequency”).
Unfortunatly there is no such concept as Boddhisattva in Scientology. That’s why I used the buddhist term. Love it. It gives the route to enlightement a purpose.
I’d say (d) “something else” and that something else being the Dynamics. That is hair splitting of course as it is so close to (A) which is the total responsibility. The only difference is that you can HAVE or not have responsibility but the poem is that he IS all these things. The stress on BEINGNESS in the poem is further reinforced by him asking to call him proper names, giving him proper identities. In my understanding, the Dynamics are closer to beingness than to havingness.
its a man with an open heart for love and no room for hate or disdain of any kind!! What is greatness comes to mind!
Marty: It’s impossible for me to read this poem without tears …
Here’s what is means to me: A, B, and E.
E being the ability of a person to forgive, to see that we are interrelated and interconnected. That Thay (Thicht Nhat Hahn) is the embodiment of peace.
If those reading this blog were to even get an inkling that what is done to one of us is done to all of us. That the very apparent back line rallying of “are you with ‘us’ (being those who are THE supposed standard techies of standard tech” or are you with Marty who is clearly doing something else” is transparent to those with enough personal conviction and ability to stand up on their own … They would weep.
Here’s the deal IMHO – until the Helmuts, Logans, Halls and whomever others they are contacting or are contacting them behind the scenes (I know this as Logan said to me during the judgment thread – that yes, there was talking back channels) recognize that we are in this together, we don’t have a hope in this mudhole of suffering.
We share a very unique reality – years of Scientology IN or OUT of the Sea Org. We each to a greater or lesser degree lost years of our lives to the church, lost money and some tragically have lost children, wives, husbands, dear friends and/or parents.
We are not unlike survivors of the Vietnam war – like Thay. We can choose to hate our oppressors, chose to revile those still involved with the old regime, chose to split hairs about who is following the philosophy properly,
chose to close our minds to other philosophies that share a commonality …
In other words – ask yourself – at what point am I willing to embrace my perceived enemy because I can see in him, myself.
BUT it requires letting GO of some of the sacrosanct dictums of LRH – 1) always attack, never defend 2) degrading beings 18 to 1 3) validating down stats = more downstats and others.
If we are each painfully honest I believe each of us can come up with at least two LRH dictums that have never “worked” for us.
Does ths mean trash the whole subject or the man. NO!
It means you are thinking for yourself and the strangle hold existence (read Scientlogy or other beliefs) are loosening their grip and you have a chance towards freedom.
In the words of Cogyam Trungpa Rinpoche – never give up on anyone. Why give up on each other by attempting to divide us?
Only b) fully applies. Here is a truly enlightened being.
In answer to your question, both a) and b).
What a beautiful and spiritual poem! Made me think of John Donne’s “For Whom The Bell Tolls”.
No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend’s were.
Each man’s death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
While I agree with LRH that we are not “All One”, we are “involved in mankind” across all 8 dynamics.
Welcome to the Sangha.
There sure is a chilling dichotomy, but since Buddhist have a great confront of the mind and also a great sense of humor, my answer is D. Winnie the Pooh interpreting Tao.
He is talking not about the connectedness of all spirit but about the selfsameness of spirit. That it becomes undeniably obvious at some points of inquiry that all there is is god or all that is. That there is only one viewpoint, which is every viewpoint. That you can look into her eyes and see yourself looking back, quite literally. That what separates joy from pain, me from you, or from a rock, from a tree, is merely a decision, consideration, an artificial distinction, like a shallow line drawn in the sand. That keeping a finger on this, allowing what is to be, is peace itself. (or “pizza self”, as my speech to text wanted it to be — that works too) And that the tide washes over the sand, erasing the line, and the sand is still the sand.
For me it is B
Option “B” covers it the best for me, by far.
b, b, and b, and perhaps b too 🙂
Please excuse the evaluation concerning your survey, but I get the distinct feeling that you are trying to establish the difference between the True Believers (in or out of the “church”) and those who fully understand that Scientology (as it was designed by the founder) is just an effective method of learning how to find Truth, both spiritually and physically.
A beautiful and moving poem!
On (a), yes, I saw it as an expression of LRH’s description of total responsibility and also his description of the 8th dynamic. And now I realize one would obviously infer the other.
On (b), I would say it expresses not just the theta universe but the physical universe – just,The Universe. He wrote, “I arrive in every second… to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone”. That expresses beingness on the 6th dynamic, part of the 8th.
On (c), it’s not a dramatization as that is being the past. It’s an expression of Now and being The Universe / being the 8th dynamic,
The poem is itself an exercise in responsibility with a plea to “call me by my true names, so I [and everybody] can wake up.” .
Should you ever grasp any tiny small deep understanding of this writting, you shouldn’t make it a ”marketing survey question” in order to make it resonate with something else. You would sincerely try to understand it, wich doesn’t come with reading stuff.
I suggest you calm you mental agitation in making scientology significance from teachings or writings of a true awareness practicionner, It’s looks somewhat pathetic.
Should you sit, relax, and meditate this paragraph many hours
”Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart can be left open,
the door of compassion.”
You wouldn’t try to make significance of it. You would truly calm your own agitation, medidate and see from an observer viewpoint that you are not your mental nor what LRH made you. You would see that this poem reflect simply the true spirit..
Should your ego don’t like my post – no problem – it may makes you think 1 minute about you!
Marty is contemplating poetry while there is strike after strike at DM and RCS;
Times are changing !
That is a call for compassion.
According to the Dalai Lama, that is impossible to advance on the spiritual level without having love and compassion for others.
The Buddhist definitions are:
Love: wanting others to be happy.
Compassion: wanting others to be free from suffering.
(Not to be confused with the scn view of compassion that is low on the tone scale. Love and compassion are at the top of the Buddhist scale of emotions).
Curiosus, what is your understanding of the Scn view of compassion and what reference in Scn do you base that on?
Do you mean the tone level of Sympathy?
Real close Alex. Thanks.
Well, looking at it again I see that his line “to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone” is probably a metaphorical rephrasing of the line before, “to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower”, so now it seems that the whole poem is an expression of the theta universe.
Incredible. So did I.
There is no such thing as ‘compassion’ on the Scientology Tone Scale. Was it an oversight? I don’t think so. 99.9% of the cult’s problems with the world at large – will ‘vanish’ – if the essence of this poem was fully understood and observed with eyes that see all – to be practised in the world at large – with full intention and attention to ‘clear’ the planet with compassion and love.
You are right;) however, the essence of a Sea Org member who willingly signed a billion year contract vowing to return again and again to help eleviate the suffering of man – was what many of us felt when we joined.
That unselfish desire to help.
Obviously that got skewered and thwarted and has been the topic of this blog and others for years.
I think a and b; we cannot NOT be responsible for where we are and what we manifest, unfortunately not enough individuals realize that. Compassion for all who need to learn to treat others with compassion. ARC Bill Dupree
On more nature reflection it did remind me of something I read decades ago that had a very profound effect on – and I just remembered what it was – Richard Bach’s Illusions. Wonderful truths simply stated.
BTW I don’t know how recent the picture is but if it’s recent then for an 87 year old man he is the ultimate advertisement for Zen Buddhism. I mean forget anti-ageing creams. Amazing life story too.
It’s quite impossible to compare SO Members to Boddhisattvas.
Maybe in the beginning of the Sea Org Project LRH really intended to have a group of OTs aboard. Then Clears. Then the standards where lowered to Grade IV and today we hardly find “recruits” who did their ARC-Straighwire.
So yes, and no.
Agreed – yes and no. But ask any SO member from the early days and along with their own desire to ” go free” they had a burning desire to help others.
I, for one, considered joining the Sea Org a Boddhisattva choice.
I joined SO after Purif and a year on post at San Francisco Foundation as a Book One auditor and Body Router. My motivation for joining the Sea Org was specifically and precisely the unselfish desire to help others and eleviate the sufferings of men. Boddhisattva and a Sea Org member can have a hell of a lot in common regardless of the case level.
My instincts tell me b.
I like the poem!
That is if you define OT based on certificates on a wall like the RCS does. Though I agree that today, most who join the SO seem to have little understanding of the subject. Though I don’t doubt that for most the decision is not based on their desire for personal benefit (except maybe some of the Eastern Europeans using it as a vehicle to escape to a better life in the US) but a misguided belief that they will be doing something important to improve the world and the lives of others.
My guess would be that the poem is a mixture of loving-kindness,
sympathetic joy , compassion, and wisdom.
George M. White
Hello and thank you guys.
This was not meant to offend the good will and your altruistic postulates.
I am thankful people like you joined the Sea Org.
I know case level certs ar no guarantee for OTness.
Mike: Though I agree that today, most who join the SO seem to have little understanding of the subject.
Yes. But this sad circumstance is the order of the day in anything RCS.
And I also think that someone not bound to a ministry (circle, sangha, order) can be a Boddhisattva also.
Christine, you are a wonderful being! I guess the main source of friction is that now there are many shades of Scientology to such an extent that for many of us, our religion no longer has a name as it isn’t any longer purely Scientology.
“Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. – From Wikipedia”
A and B.
It is a beautiful poem.
This reflects the comment I made yesterday regarding Alan Watts (another Zen practitioner). I really like the idea of us being part of the cosmic “all,” that we, each of us, are manifestations of the viewpoint of God, and are God’s way of experiencing life. I am almost of the opinion that God is everything, but I am not there yet. What I don’t believe is that we lose ourselves back into the “Theta pool” (God?) when we die – that the “ego” goes away. I do believe we are unique individuals, but also that we are all part of the connected universe(s) and are all manifestations of/images of God.
The keyword of this poem is compassion. It is also the keyword of Buddhism. It is not the same thing as responsibility.
Compassion is the thing missing in Scientology Inc completely.
The buddhist ‘compassion’ is not the same as ‘sympathy’ on the tone scale. Compassion is not at all on the tone scale.
Not sure where you got the idea that “Compassion” is low on the tone scale. It certainly is not. As a person rises in the tone scale, his ARC (Affinity, Reality, and Communication) rises, which raises his level of compassion. In order to effectively audit anyone, you must be compassionate. This is in keeping with the Buddhist sense. To me, an OT who audits is very similar to the Bodhisattva – someone who wants others to receive the gains they themselves have acquired, and actively helping others reduce their suffering.
This is different from sycophantic “sympathy” which you may be confusing here.
I will agree that this is a concept that it frequently misunderstood, but it is well explained in Science of Survival and other sources.
Dear Jane Parker White.
Isn’t Compassion in all its splendor just a buzzword, fully covered in Affinity, Reality and Communication equals Understanding.
Thank you, Christine. This is very close in content and sentiment to a post I intended to make during the “Judgement” thread (instead of the inadequately abbreviated and somewhat accusative comment I made to Steve that resulted in my “severe reality adjustment”), and is certainly more eloquently stated than my attempt would have been. It was my own experience of “a transcendent awareness of the connectedness of collective spirit, or the theta universe” (ironically enough while waiting in the checkout line of a K-Mart store just last year) that has enabled me to see that when one being harms another they are actually harming themselves. True compassion is only possible through this realization.
There is a spacious dimension of love and consciousness available to all of us at this very moment (not at a future date or after a certain number of intensives), the depth and peace of which is so vast that it is beyond the ability of the human mind to grasp; but this only makes sense when one realizes that the human mind/thinking (especially the constantly chattering voice in the head), emotion and sense perception are the components of form (MEST) and not the oneness of the sacred unmanifested consciousness.
I strongly sense that we are in the middle of a newly arising consciousness that is taking place mostly outside of the conventional, established religions and which is based on an awakening to the basic underlying truth of all spiritual teachings. It is an evolutionary leap that MUST occur at this time if humanity is to survive; we have become too numerous and the destruction of the ecosystem is accelerating at an alarming rate – Gaia is in great distress.
I sincerely thank Marty for providing a venue where I can express disagreement with factions of the independent scientologist community without having to go to EMSB – and I completely agree with you Christine that the entire subject neither should nor deserves to be “trashed”. I feel that the subject of scientology CAN have a role to play in the arising consciousness thanks to the efforts of the independents. We ARE all in this together not just because of our shared corporate church experiences but with a shared purpose of becoming fully conscious of our true spiritual nature – our true beingness. As Eckhart Tolle points out: “You are not IN the universe, you ARE the universe, an intrinsic part of it. Ultimately you are not a person, but a focal point where the universe is becoming conscious of itself. What an amazing miracle.”
I’ll tell you this: there is no compassion without responsibility.
Compassion is the last word of this poem – makes it easy to interpret. And Inc has nothing to do with Scientology.
I read the survey questions and then read the poem and the survey questions completely disappeared. So, I guess my answer would be e) none of the above.
Compassion is understanding, and an interest in helping one’s fellow man. I see it more of an attitude in line with 3.3 and above than being a specific tone level. What is Greatness is a beautiful example of this.
Again a very good choice of topic! imho.
a. + b.
normally I don’t like poetry, but this poem is very moving and written by an angel.
it’s a+b and just evrything. it says everything and contains any possible wisdom.
If that’s the path you want to walk Marty, my hat is off to you !
Compassion, to me, is not at all about wanting others to be free from suffering.
That definition I reserve for political correctness 🙂
To me, at this moment, compassion, at the spiritual level, is about having the ability and willingness to perceive and connect with the beautifulness and goodness in another no matter how ugly or evil he/she has been or is being, to have the strength to not allow any influence to dim that consciousness and one’s approach towards that person.
It is more simply, to me, the ability to see past the “shit” in each one of us, to avoid identifying the soul and the “shit” as one, and to be empowering that person with their own basic beauty and goodness, no matter how long it takes for them to connect to it..
In my world a Bodhisattva is just someone aspiring to be Bodhi i.e. a Pre-Clear or a Pre-OT.
I think e. Although I can see a relationship with a) and b) what I take from this is that the poem is a description of Life or that that is alive, or theta. I do not interpret this as a thetan being all things, but theta being present in all things. And understanding that the life in all of us is essentially the same although the manifestations of life are varied. He quite clearly draws an angle between many dichotomies’ that exist in life, but also shows that even though they may be poles apart, they are simply an extension of life in the material universe. His call for understanding of the fundamental nature of existence all being motivated by the same force can only lead one to have compassion for all forms of life.
Here’s a thanks for stirring up the proverbial hornets nest again.
This scene should indicate some sense of humor with regards to the overall response in some metaphorical way.
To answer the survey,
B and A and some E.
By the way, keep up the good work.
I joined the Sea Org after duplicating LRH on the PDCs… I had so much space by just few lectures…. It was so much space… I wanted others to have that opportunity… to Know. So I gave myself to the SO and didn’t regret it. I just understood at one point that my space was getting TOO big for some in the upper echelons and how was I to get so much space when I was not up there with them… Hahaha, what a joke… The PDCs always guided me to create more and more space, even if others said I was entitled to none. I am still creating my space here in Greece with no terminals actually around but who cares… It’s my responsibility after all, nobody else’s.
As to the poem I can’t say but D, I can’t interpret it but as something else, it’s on its own.
LRH, whether you believe he was 100% correct about everything or not is up to the individual. I can say with certainty that he was very intelligent and “enlightened”. I feel that studying Scientology has given me a greater ability to truly understand things like this poem. I can truly understand and appreciate other religions and subjects. I feel like I’ve been to School and it applies to all things. It opens things up. it shouldnt close you off to further learning and expansion in life the way it does in the church. If I read this poem it just adds to what I learned in Scientology. In the Church one says “I already have the knowledge and don’t need to look”.
? The embedded youtube videos are not displaying for me when I use Firefox, but when I use Google Chrome, they display and play just fine.
Anyone else having such a thing going on?
Beautifully emotional, yet curiously lose with the term “I am”. Don’t get me wrong I get the message of the poem and I have my own understanding of even the 8th dynamic. (own as an not necessarily true for others)
I would go with b; however I can’t help but to notice some wondering-ness in the awareness.
I see this beautiful poem as (b) within the context of Zen Buddhism. From Alan Watts’ book “What is Zen”:
Zen is simply the sensation and the clear understanding that, to put it in Zen terms, there are “ten thousand formations; one suchness.” Or you might say, “The ten thousand things that are everything are of one suchness.” That is to say that there is behind the multiplicity of events and creatures in this universe simply one energy — and it appears as you, and everything is it. The practice of Zen is to understand that one energy so as to “feel it in your bones.”
Yet Zen has nothing to say about what that energy is, and of course this gives the impression in the minds of Westerners that it is a kind of “blind energy.” We assume this because the only other alternative that we can imagine in terms of our traditions is that it must be something like God — some sort of cosmic ego, an almost personal intelligent being. But in the Buddhist view, that would be as far off the mark as thinking of it as blind energy. The reason they use the word “suchness” is to leave the whole question open, and absolutely free from definition. It is “such.” It is what it is.
I would say “B”.
If Thich Nhat Hanh has truly experienced this state for himself, then I would say he is definitely “enlightened”. We should all be so lucky.
I think A and B, but more closely is aligned with B only from the standpoint that Thich Nhat Hanh is directly eluding to a collective spirit. I have not come across anything that Ron has said that acknowledges this directly. In the PDC lectures on the Qs he actually says the opposite. That all the way up the line we are completely individuals and we do not become “one”, but that there is something above Q1 which is “very, very interesting”. Even as I read the chapter on Responsibility (aside from being completely blown away) I interpret it to be from the aspect of total responsibility as the individual.
Whatever the case may be, I think we are either truly “one”, or there is some other link (perhaps ARC or just plain Knowingness) that allows us to be exactly as if we are truly “one” . This all then leads to the exact same result, and honestly it’s a great and comforting realization to know such affinity really does exist.
I have to throw this in:
Imagine if you will that within the next 20-50 years on a super computer one creates a very hefty emulation of the physical universe. (some initial attempts have already began which are ready to be Googled)
Imagine (and note that I did ask you to believe) that this emulation is so well done that after a while perhaps with some help there are blobs of particles sticking together spinning and whirling in much similar way to our own universe as we see it. Bright blobs, foggy clouds you name it.
Then the creator of this super computer keeps messing with the parameters until one day he gets stable enough blobs resembling earth where conditions are relatively friendly. Much more friendly then some other very active areas like those blobs resembling starts or our sun. Then he messes with it a bit more and gets the conditions right to drop the seed for self aware self guiding particle arrangements. Imagine that he succeeds to some degree and one day some particle arrangements become aware of their own existence. Say he tries to communicate to this sort of simulated entity which would be sort of his remote created AI (artificial intelligence) inside his emulated whirl-world.
How would that communication go?
Oh you create me? Cool.
So can you explain to me please how and where I exist. Just if you could help me out here because I am about to self destruct. 🙂
Well … let’s see. You are … err. …. inside this universe I have created. This universe is really a complex machine. Which has many many parts inside which can change state. So you and your whole known universe is merely a result of organized rule guided state changes of these logic elements of this machine.
Ooooook. I don’t get it. Would you please try to explain differently?
Sure let’s see. Now that I come to think of it what you really are is software.
WTF is software?
(he gets into a lengthy explanation about how software is created and what it does etc)
OK but what is it. What is it made of?
Engineer then starts having to explain about his own world. Down to electrons, protons, quarks, muons, and what-not-ons.
Ok but what are those made of?
Engineer starts explaining more and goes back all the way to the big bang theory. Getting an bit frustrated.
And what was before the big bang?
Well we are still working on that.
So why did you create me?
I’ll leave the rest up to you. 🙂
Bodhi (Sanskrit: बोधि; and Pali) in Buddhism is the understanding possessed by a Buddha regarding the nature of things. It is traditionally translated into English with the word enlightenment and literally means awakened. Wiki’
David Miscavige hits that button over and over heavily in his events.
Thank you for sharing this viewpoint with us. I find it very much to my liking and close to my own reality.
Mostly B. It is a beautiful statement that what we all have in common is far greater than our differences. We all sprang from the same fountain. We and every living thing shares the commonality of being alive and connected with each other, even those playing games that, we as individual living units, disagree with, even abhor.
It is a statement in the voice of one who is BEING all his dynamics, including, most importantly, the 8th dynamic, which is not spoken from “God’s Voice” as an almighty creator, but from someone who can simultaneously be all the suffering and the joy at the same time, and that, self-evidently, joy is a better state and more Life should try to recognize that, and engender it in others. This is summed up by Compassion.
Fantastic poem, thanks for sharing!
I would say a) and b) above.
I got this same type of thing when I first cleared the AP&A definition of “RESPONSIBILITY” in 1985. Just duplicating and glimpsing the scope of it made me go exterior. It was a wonderful experience that changed me forever.
The Singularity Is Near.
You are one smart man.
b) Beautiful poem.
Pan-determinism in poetry. I guess that would make it (d).
I don’t believe this very aware poem is a poetic reflection of the chapter on responsibility, nor inspired or influenced by it, but it certainly aligns 100%.
It definitely reflects “b”.
It has nothing to do with “c” other than possibly reflecting on a root cause of why evil is dramatized in each and every one of us, though some has risen above that dramatization and is fully aware of it and can control it which aligns with higher states of Scientology as well as those described in Zen Buddhism.
It is also “d” as the poem reflects on a deeper understanding of “good” and “bad” as far as how these subjects relate to awareness, intention and compassion and love and which one in the end is the governing factor.
Please don’t tell me that you know who just won? Where is the rating system?
I’ve learned so much from it. 😦
I’ll have to go with “d)” something else (in a good sense).
More as-is-ness than not-isness. What I like is the acceptance that one has pain as well as pleasure, overts as well as beneficence – not as if all were the same mystical oneness, but as all are parts of life. The attempt to deny or refuse what is, will not as-is. Now, praise and merit done with … I wonder if the guy knows how to audit? In clinical Western terms, devoid of mysticism and poetry: Scn is the mainstream of Asian thought and wisdom, and it is the mainstream of the Greek philosophers who originated modern science. Scn adds the first definition of a Thetan, its functions, the reactive mind, and how to fix it. One who misses that, one who prefers to contemplate the mountain stream, even its running dry one day, even its erosion into desert, misses the present evolution. One who prefers the microscope or the cyclotron, misses the origins. I wonder, from time to time, what the Dalai Lama would do, if handed a copy of Scn 0-8? Would he dismiss it as a cult without looking? Would he read past a misunderstood word and dismiss it casually as “a good attempt”? Would he quote Buddhist text? Would he allow no one near enough to hand him a copy? And the figurehead of physics, Albert Einstein, what would he have said?
I was called Saint, and I gave goodwill.
I was called Tzun, and I stopped to kill.
I was called Judas, and I betrayed.
When called Scientology, I sat down to stay.
So, Thich Nhat Nanh, I shall call you “Scientology” and smile – do you recognize the name?
P.S. For the fearsome and the cultists, the implication is that “Scientology” is obviously no one’s name, not any more than one can call Thich Nhat Nanh by his real names, but if one wishes a description of a being, one might look at the description Scientology offers to anyone who asks. The question is the answer, and all that.
I think that at the level of Static or Native State, neither “one” nor “many” applies. Because either statement tries to quantify the unquantifiable. I suppose you could say they both apply simultaneously, in sense.
Dan, I agree.
“No man is an island, entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were.
Any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind,
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.“
John Donne (1572 – 1631)
And I amend:
“And so the birth of a child enriches me because I am involved in mankind,
not limited to the boundaries of my body I can send my love to embrace the most distant rock,
And so unrestrain myself to the size of life itself.”
As I see it, answers a) and B) are not wrong. To me it communicates that he un-disconnects from the dynamics.
Thanks for this. Reading the Wikipedia article, Thich Nhat Nahn sent a letter to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King in 1965 entitled “In Search of the Enemies of Man”. You can read the full text here: http://www.aavw.org/special_features/letters_thich_abstract02.html
“I believe with all my heart that the monks who burned themselves did not aim at the death of the oppressors but only at a change in their policy. Their enemies are not man. They are intolerance, fanaticism, dictatorship, cupidity, hatred and discrimination which lie within the heart of man. I also believe with all my being that the struggle for equality and freedom you lead in Birmingham, Alabama… is not aimed at the whites but only at intolerance, hatred and discrimination. These are real enemies of man — not man himself. In our unfortunate father land we are trying to yield desperately: do not kill man, even in man’s name. Please kill the real enemies of man which are present everywhere, in our very hearts and minds. ”
The rest of the letter gives insight into the mindset of the Vietnamese Monks acts of self-immolation as an expression of compassion for living beings. I can’t help but think, that if things were a little better understood, that there could be non-self destructive expressions of compassion and free will that offered even greater channels of communication for healing of beings in all realms. This is, to a very large degree, what I have experienced through application of LRH’s technology. and what I hoped others would achieve.
Thumbs up, Emilie. Very pertinent and nicely stated. I say “B”.
In the process of evolving today my viewpoint on compassion after having placed attention on the last part of the poem, and expressing earlier my viewpoint on it, compassion has become now, to me, the result of having risen above the impulse to repulse or to ridicule, scorn or negatively judge another who is showing a condition or an action or a viewpoint one did not want to have existence, have any connection to, and/or deemed produced by a relatively weak or flawed or lesser human being, so as to have one’s heart free to dictate one’s actions towards that person.
Being that, I am seeing, that the heart loves to connect with others and to postulate and help nourish their native goodness, and beauty, and “humanness”, and warmth, and “valuableness”, and that it is very willing to accept and embrace, without bias, the “imperfect” states or circumstances we all “suffer” from, a person who is acting in a compassionate manner is, to me, quite an extraordinary accomplishment.
No, this may not be my ultimate viewpoint on compassion and I am far from consistently accomplishing it to a well-done-to-me level. But I have now formed a concept that makes it easier for me to engage in acting with compassion, and I am also much more willing to increase my “compassionateness”.
Thanks very much Marty for starting to engage in posting viewpoints and prompting the examination (and the evolving) of my own.
Unfortunately for you, your comment, instead of being helpful attempts to invalidate another being’s actions which, in my understanding are not patethic. On the contrary, it can help many to come out of the Darwin/Descartes, Church of Miscavology mind set. Your comment also demonstrates that you do not understand what you are talking about, not yet anyway, because if you can only “understand” the connectedness of the universe as a whole during a brief period of meditative relaxation, and you are heavily judgemental of others then you shouldn’t beat your drum about what you think you know.
PS. If you really wish to understand “connectedness” at a scientific level, please read The Field by LYNNE McTAGGART. You can get it from Amazon.
d. Thich Nhat Hanh seems to be pan-determination personified on all dynamics.
I like this idea.
But then let’s start by embracing “the Helmuts, Logans, Halls and whomever others”. What is true for you is true for you. And what is true for “others” is also true for someone very much like you.
I agree with most of what you say here, but why MUST one “let go” of anything they believe. If we listen to this monk, perhaps we should consider also embracing that which which we disagree, considering how “it IS that way” as well as how it ISN’T that way.
You are so right when you say that we are all in this mud-hole together. Each of us is and we all are. So I am making this suggestion to you and to Marty personally, as well as Helmut, Jim Logan, Steve Hall, and “others”, personally.
Me too Maurice. After I got in Scientology (which was a direct event after this experience/event) I ‘learned’ I went ‘up the pole’ and I let that invalidate the experience.
Code of honor. Now if ANYTHING should be drilled backwards to the wall that should.
But no, really nothing should.
Let us set a good example and help others. It is probably the best I will do this life time – or the rest of it (having done years of selfless service in SO).
(Music here) I’m not the only one…
In “Boddhisattva” can mean “awakening” aswell (still in progress towards).
From Wikipedia, the etymology is interesting:
Hello brothers and sisters,
Just wanted to say that somewhere within the vast number of words written by LRH, during my life in Scientology/Sea Org, I learned that Scientology is science of Learning How to Learn. And in my case that is the most precious legacy I left to me by the Old Man. In fact, other wonderful wins aside, that is what LRH’s work means to me. I felt like sharing this with you all.
PS. Should read: “…most precious legacy left to me by the Old Man.
You are correct. I read and practised DMSMH in 1968 and after studying other basic materials and confirming what such knowledge could do for others, I joined the SO in 1971. All I could think of was: my god, this stuff MUST be made available to every person on this planet! During the 3 year gap before joining the SO I successfully disseminated and lectured on what I had learned and eventually, when I reported for SO duty, I had 5 other like minded people with me, all ready to dedicate their lives to the purpose of making others aware that what we knew could be the solution to ridding the Human Race of crime, insanity and war. At the age of 30 I had been around the block a couple of times and I was well aware of all 3 of the above items and I wanted the world rid of them. When I signed my SO contract, time didn’t mean anything to me-I knew who and what I was-and it never occured to me to join for personal reasons i.e. “handle my case” or become an “all powerful OT”. I just wanted to help, full time and for as many lifetimes as necessary. And BTW, I never paid for any kind of services except when I paid $12,000 for my FL “debt” after blowing Flag in 1981 so that I could keep my job in a scientologist owned company.
In 1985, after my ordeal in Santa Barbara (David Mayo era), I completely disconnected myself from anything and anyone connected to Scientology as I am now (apart from you guys on this blog) but my contract is still valid and will be fullfilled, if that makes any sense to you.
Hi, Eric! It’s good to hear from you my friend.
I’d say a and b.
i spent a week with thich nhat hanh,i got to walk next to him each morning for an hour, doing walking meditation,i invited gwen north who is an old class 12,was chief officer on the apollo and her office was next to LRH, we both agreed TNH WAS an awakened being ,so much love and compassion flows from him, i never met ron but gwen saw him daily. it was a total different vib. i enjoy the different authors you are reading a quoting, i loved the above poem.
The fellow who originally recommended it got all bent out of shape when the responses did not agree with his own views. He then campaigned here, broadcasting to OSA and pranksters on how to game the system. After a few like-minded folks kept belly-aching, repeating on how to game the system, it became quite apparent to me that the system was being gamed. So, I discontinued it. Meanwhile, the fellow who created this bruhaha in the first place with the belly-aching disconnected from this blog. It is an interesting observation that those that continually assert themselves as the most vehement ‘with Ron’ ‘Scientologists’ on this blog tend to be the most prone to group think ‘with us or against us’ gang ups. Go figure.
Your post above is kind of out of the blue and I don’t understand what you are taliking about. Did you originate this survey? Or didn’t you? Are you talking about the “thumbs up, thumbs down” rating system which has been removed? Who is the fellow who suggested it? Who was trying to game the sytem? could you please expand?
A little of a, b and possibly c but if c is the case, how did he
arrive at such a profound insight so probably have to discount
c. One thing is for sure, it is a beautiful poem and DM and his
cohorts could really benefit if they take heed of this.
The overall thing is, how do you translate it into your everyday
physical universe actions to make this planet a better place?
Compassion! what a wonderful word.
PS: Respectfully, in order to understand a communication and make sense of it, it must contain Time, Place, Form and Event. I know you are a busy person but could you please clarify what you are talking about? :))
In the book Scn 0-8 in the section A Description of Scientology it says:
“While Scientology encompasses a broader scope than any previous Eastern or Western religion ever has, it should be realized that a great deal of what is known today in Scientology, with an added exactness of understanding, was already known and lost thousands of years ago.”
My answer to your question is (d). Two men searching for answers discovered or rediscovered a truth and communicated it in different ways.
For me personally, I never really grasped the concept of the poetry prior to fully understanding the Factors and various other of LRH’s communications.
I’ve also never joined in on the group service facsimile that Ron is the only person who ever espoused a truth about anything.
I don’t see actually see the need or the advantage to squeeze these beautiful words and concepts into Scientology nomenclature. As if that nomenclature would give a better understanding of what is being said in the poem! Which is not the case imho. Compassion is compassion.
Scientology nomenclature is no substitute for the richness of the English language, or any language for that matter.
Thumbs up/down. It was never my idea. I instituted it at the insistence of others – all documented on the blog. I de-instituted for the reasons noted in the last comment. That is all I have to say in terms of clarification – it is all covered in myriad threads on this blog.
Yes, that is sympathy.
I was talking about materials in French, where the word ‘sympathy’ is translated as ‘compassion’, either in the tone scale or in the auditor’s code.
For example the #8 of the auditor’s code:
“8. I promise not to sympathize with a preclear but to be effective.”
Is translated in French as:
“8. Je promets de ne pas avoir de la compassion pour un préclair, mais d’être efficace.”
Translated back in English, we have:
“8. I promise not to have compassion for a preclear but to be effective.”
Quite a different meaning!
Moreover Sympathy is at 0.9 on the tone scale, quite low actually. Again in French compassion is plotted at 0.9 on the tone scale.
Hence as a (former) French speaking scientologist, I was educated with the idea that I should not have compassion for others. From what I remember, many a French scientologist had similar ideas.
So thank you for helping me solve a crashing MU!
Excellent point Valkov! I guess I continue to seek answers to this because a Thetan loves a mystery. 🙂 Additionally, even though unquantifiable, for a Thetan it should be something that is comprehendable at some point of awareness. On goes the journey….
My apologies for comment below, I didn’t see responsibility until now.
I would answer d) and offer a definition from the 1913 Webster`s dictionary:
1. A suffering or enduring of imposed or inflicted pain; any suffering or distress (as, a cardiac passion); specifically, the suffering of Christ between the time of the last supper and his death, esp. in the garden upon the cross. “The passions of this time.” Wyclif (Rom. viii. 18).
2. The state of being acted upon; subjection to an external agent or influence; a passive condition; — opposed to action.
A body at rest affords us no idea of any active power to move, and, when set is motion, it is rather a passion than an action in it. Locke.
3. Capacity of being affected by external agents; susceptibility of impressions from external agents. [R.] Moldable and not moldable, scissible and not scissible, and many other passions of matter. Bacon.
4. The state of the mind when it is powerfully acted upon and influenced by something external to itself; the state of any particular faculty which, under such conditions, becomes extremely sensitive or uncontrollably excited; any emotion or sentiment (specifically, love or anger) in a state of abnormal or controlling activity; an extreme or inordinate desire; also, the capacity or susceptibility of being so affected; as, to be in a passion; the passions of love, hate, jealously, wrath, ambition, avarice, fear, etc.; a passion for war, or for drink; an orator should have passion as well as rhetorical skill.
Bob this is a good term – “selfsameness” of spirit. It is a word Ihave been looking for in some discussions about whether we are “all one”, from a single source, or are we individuals and “many”.
My view is that we are indeed individuals as far as we can know but that we share a QUALITY of being, which “selfsameness” communicates very well.
LRH thought we would not know until we had recovered on Dynamics 1 through 7, only then would we be able to know the 8th Dynamic. It’s been called the “God Dynamic”, but I think of it as “the ultimate source”, whatever that may be. Until then, it appears to me that as far as we can know, we are individuals. I have speculated that “God” is the total co-action or totality of co-creatingness of every existing individual.
What we have in common is a certain quality of being, which is what makes us appear to be “connected” or of the same source, or originally part of the same “body”. Here we’re getting into mystical stuff,like the concept of “Communion”.
It did appear to me that it could be gamed and I think I did mention that in a post.
Those were desperate times for the Vietnamese. Deforestation, defoliation, hundreds or thousands burned by napalm….. The monks may have felt it was the least they could do to call the world’s attention to the atrocity of it all, and awaken some shred of compassion in others.