Some have questioned lately where I stand on the subject of Scientology and its author L. Ron Hubbard. I have found that perplexing since I believe I have pretty thoroughly shared that through my writings over the past four years. It occurred to me that maybe I lost some folks in never opening up for discussion topics that I covered in the greatest detail in the book What Is Wrong With Scientology? Healing Through Understanding.
In chapter 15 Hereafter of that book I laid out three lessons I had learned since leaving the church of Scientology that I believed if not learned by Scientologists would spell Scientology’s demise as a viable subject in the future. The first lesson was that Scientologists need to develop the tolerance and compassion necessary to integrate. That particular segment of the book is republished below. Feel free to sound off on what is wrong with this, what is unworkable about this, where I was inaccurate or unfair, why it ought not be heeded, or whatever else you want to say about it (within the bounds, or course, of this blog’s moderation policy).
Excerpt:
Integrate or Disintegrate
One hallmark of the corporate Scientologist that has done more than perhaps anything else to harm the attractiveness of the subject is the assumption of the holier-than-thou attitude. Scientology Inc. drives home at every level, gradiently increasing as one progresses, the idea that a Scientologist is superior to mere mortals and wogs. Some of this is inculcated by Hubbard’s writings and lectures. I believe that is partly due to Hubbard feeling the need to keep people involved and engaged when it was particularly tough for one to do so.
During Hubbard’s lifetime, Scientologists were continually at risk of losing family, friends, jobs, and even their civil liberties, just by virtue of practicing Scientology. That was due in great part to the established monopoly on mental healing of the ’50s and early ’60s – driven through the American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association and American Psychological Association – condemning and organizing aggressive attacks against Scientology. That this was once the case will be made plain in my subsequent book on the movement’s history. However, it is still untenable to be associated with Scientology in certain countries, including Germany and France. Hubbard’s material consistently regards Scientologists with the attitude that in the light of organized attacks, they ought to take pride for daring to look where others won’t.
Hubbard took that defensiveness to another level by becoming increasingly assertive that Scientology is the only workable route to betterment. With that came a growing disdain for other practices and philosophies. It began with psychiatry, spread to psychology and psycho-therapy, and then to other philosophies and religions. By the mid-’60s, firm policies were instituted that effectively forbade the outside study of any other mental, spiritual, or religious philosophy. It was a gradually-growing intolerance, but by the end of Hubbard’s life it became sweeping and absolute. By way of example, let us take Hubbard’s attitude toward Sigmund Freud and the fields of psychiatry and psychology. Freud was noted by Hubbard as someone to whom “credit in particular is due” at the beginning of his seminal 1951 book Science of Survival.
By 1959, Hubbard had toned that acknowledgement down to a condescending tolerance:
Older nineteenth century studies, such as psychology, developed by Wundt in 1879 in Leipzig, Germany; psychoanalysis, developed by Freud in 1894 in Vienna, Austria; and psychiatry, developed through the nineteenth century in Russia, did not necessarily fail, since they provided data which permitted Scientology to begin.
By 1970, Hubbard becomes far more critical:
Any early technology of the human mind was perverted by the University of Leipzig studies of animal fixations of a Prof. Wundt in 1879, who declared man a soul-less animal, subject only to stimulus-response mechanisms and without determinism. Further perversions entered upon the scene in the 1894 libido theory of Sigmund Freud, attributing all reactions and behavior to the sex urge.
Finally, in 1982, Hubbard summed up the contribution of the psychologist, psycho-therapist, and psychiatrist – referred to collectively in Scientology as ‘psychs’ – in a bulletin entitled The Cause of Crime:
There would be no criminals at all if the psychs had not begun to oppress beings into vengeance against society. There’s only one remedy for crime – get rid of the psychs! They are causing it!
Corporate Scientologists, trained to abide by all of Hubbard’s words literally, believe this without question. Thus, their leader Miscavige currently whips thousands of Scientologists into a virtual frenzy at his annual International Association of Scientologists event – a yearly enactment chillingly reminiscent of Hitler’s Nuremburg rallies – by announcing campaigns directed at destroying ‘the psychs.’ The crowds leap to their feet to give minutes-long standing ovations when Miscavige announces Scientology Inc. funding for the “Psychiatry: Global Retribution” campaign, or the “Psychs: Global Obliteration” plan.
Thus we see what Scientology Inc.’s celebrity spokesman Tom Cruise was referring to when he appeared on the Today show and sternly scolded host Matt Lauer with laser-intense certainty: “You are glib. You don’t know the history of psychiatry. I do!” And we saw Cruise become the poster boy for Scientology Inc.’s implanted, dysfunctional, superiority complex. Witness Cruise – who claims his “best friend” to be David Miscavige himself – pridefully pronouncing in a viral YouTube video that a Scientologist “knows that he is the only one who can truly help” others, even down to assisting a motorist in distress. What are we to think – that all Highway Patrolmen, Emergency Medical Technicians, even good Samaritans are incompetent, wrong-intentioned people who cannot be trusted?
The first lesson I learned after 27 years on the inside was precisely the opposite. When I left, I moved to deep-south Texas. I had been high profile within, and thought that critics and enemies of Scientology would use my departure to Scientology’s detriment. My goal was to disappear. And for three years I was successful. During those three years, I had no contact whatsoever with anyone I had known for the previous entirety of my life. I was a hurt, lonely person. The first thing I noticed was that others noticed that condition. Mind you, these were the lowliest people imaginable, since the county I lived in was perennially one of the three poorest in the nation.
The next thing I noticed was that those lowly ‘wogs’ cared to do something about my pain. And while they did not have a lot to share, they were only too willing to give the two things they did have: compassion and communication. I noticed that in South Texas people of whatever station or race treat all other people with respect. Men call one another ‘Sir’ when they meet for the first time or when they casually pass or do simple business. One is automatically granted respect and it is up to one to maintain it. You keep it or lose it by your subsequent conduct, but you start off with their assumption that you deserve it. Where did this come from? I suppose some of it was Christian based, some of it was Mexican-culture based, some of it was Southern-Americana based. Whatever the source, I do know that the compassion and communication that ultimately saved my soul turned out to be inner-city and ‘psych’ based.
I met Monique Banks in early 2005. The minute she met me, she treated me like a long-lost family member. We have lived together since – we were married in 2010. She had an incredible set of people skills when I met her. They were tolerance, interest, compassion, listening, forgiveness and unconditional love. This woman gave me the space and understanding I needed to decompress, to heal, and to put my life into perspective. It was not till later when I met her father that I would understand where she had learned these skills. Jim Banks is, of all things, a psycho-therapist and professor of psychology by profession. Jim is a man’s man. He grew up without a father, in the Bronx. He sacrificed his teenage years to serve as father to his four younger brothers. He then served his country in the jungles of Vietnam as a United States Marine. Besides the qualities I already mentioned that Monique displayed, I learned that he taught his children four important lessons.
First, don’t ever play the victim – it is the most painful and unrewarding route one can choose, and if played too long will make you a victim for good. Two, remember that you cannot control the way that other people act, but you can always control the way you react to them, and the way you act yourself. Three, if you want to get better and more competent, then choose to associate with friends who are better and more competent than yourself (clearly impossible for one who believes he is superior to the rest). Four – and most importantly – remember that no matter what the question, the answer is ‘love.’ Ironically, Jim and Monique both naturally, and without effort, exemplified the best qualities that I believe Scientology can help one develop. Jim, despite his profession alone rendering him a ‘cause of crime’ in the eyes of Scientology Inc., had no problem understanding my description of Scientology. In fact, he agreed with just about everything I told him about it.
Spending time with my new family has taught me that the goals of Scientology are not monopolized. It taught me that there are other means to achieve those goals, and people were exemplifying that in their conduct in the world. This lead to a curiosity about how society and philosophy and the study of the mind had evolved during my years within the machine. I read and read and read some more. The more I read, the more I saw Scientology as aligning with, agreeing with, and potentially having tools that could help with other bodies of wisdom and routes to happiness and realization. I also began to see more clearly how Scientology Inc. had alienated and segregated itself from the rest of society, leaving the world at large with the inclination to steer clear of Scientology.
I never preached Scientology to Monique. But, the subject arose many times, when she would ask me about a good quality in me that she had noticed, which I would attribute to some aspect of Scientology. On three occasions I used simple Scientology techniques to prevent illnesses from taking hold of Monique’s body. This increased her curiosity. The more she learned of Scientology from me, the more she considered that it aligned with what she knew to be good, healing, and empowering.
As we learned more of each other, I found that beneath Monique’s courage, strength and wisdom she carried hurt and despair like everyone else. She reached for auditing and I provided it. I audited her up the Bridge, through the Grades and Dianetics to Clear. But I audited her up the Bridge with absolutely none of the Black Dianetics additives that have been detailed throughout this book. No attempts were made to have her believe anything, no effort was made to control her behavior and life, nothing was done to get her to view people in any other way than the way she saw appropriate to view them. My goal was solely to help her to recover more of herself, to assist her to take off those synthetic personality jackets that didn’t belong to her inherently and were making her uncomfortable – just as Hubbard prescribed when he spoke directly of the actual auditing technology. Though I had audited many dozens of people in my time within Scientology Inc. (including virtually all of its A-list VIPs), it was only during my auditing on the outside that I began to truly appreciate the power of the technology of Scientology.
There was no limit to the effectiveness of Scientology when it was offered and delivered with the sole, unadulterated intent to service and to help. It was completely acceptable and understandable to people when it was not marketed, sold, or covertly forced upon them. It enhanced and reinforced the good lessons that people learned from any number of sources, when it was not used to dissuade people from listening to or learning from other sources. After another three years of delivering Scientology on the same basis to former members of Scientology Inc. and to people new to the subject altogether, those observations have been further validated.
Scientology works wonderfully when it integrates with society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others. Scientology harms when it seeks to segregate from society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others. If Scientologists do not learn to integrate, they will disintegrate as a potential meaningful influence.
If corporate Scientologists cannot wrap their wits around thinking conceptually with the subject and integrating with society, but instead feel they must continue to act robotically, only according to literal commands of L. Ron Hubbard, then a good start for them would be to aspire to live literally by this central tenet of Hubbard’s: “A being is only as valuable as he can serve others.”
If one truly attempted to live up to that maxim, he or she might begin to see the light. To Scientologists who can think conceptually and have not cut themselves off from the fruits of observation, you might appreciate the tree from which that branch grew:
What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher? What is a bad man but a good man’s job? If you do not understand this, you will get lost, however intelligent you are. It is the great secret. – Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
One of my favorite chapters in the book, Marty. The truth is that auditing would work with just about any other practice the person was involved with: yoga, Christianity, Islam, P90X, psychology, U.S. politics, whatever. The push to make people interested in Scientology stop being Roman Catholics always seemed intensely stupid to me.
I think I get where you’re coming from. It’s too bad that you are in the position to explain yourself over and over again. For me, myself and I the only thing that matters is whether a person lives a good life and does the correct actions to make it better for others. How could freedom of speech on a blog such as this not be helpful?
btw I know that sometimes comments may not get published but that’s the essence of a personal blog. The owner gets to publish whatever they want. Period. The disgruntled ones just have to take their business elsewhere as there are many forums and blogs for all to speak out. That’s the beauty of freedom of speech in a free world.
Marty, you write: “By the mid-’60s, firm policies were instituted that effectively forbade the outside study of any other mental, spiritual, or religious philosophy.”
In my reading of a lot of Scn books by LRH and in my studies from HSDC to Class 4 and subsequent reading of a lot of materials I read nowhere that LRH FORBADE this. In fact, on my Minister’s Course I had to study some few other religious material, amongst them the Qu’ran.
What LRH did state that indulging ‘”other practices” interfere with auditing. That is, however, a very different thing from forbidding to study other religions. Knowledge is power – forego knowledge and one foregoes power.
So, tell me, my friend, what are the sources for stating ” By the mid-’60s, firm policies were instituted that effectively forbade the outside study of any other mental, spiritual, or religious philosophy”? I’m really curious, this is not a make-wrong.
Much love,
Bill. .
Speaking as an outsider, Marty, though also as an avid follower if this blog, I would offer the thought that maybe what interests and often puzzles people is not, as you say above, where you “stand” on Scientology, Hubbard, et al, but rather the sense that you’re not exactly standing but rather moving subtly in various ways. Which is a good, thing, I think.
I mean, look, it’s amazing, and it must feel disorienting even to you, to consider how far you’ve traveled intellectually and spiritually and otherwise over the past several years. This passage from your book is a charming and heartfelt demonstration of that. And what I’m suggesting is that for many of us who find you such a fascinating being, there may be a sense that the journey isn’t nearly over. It seems to me, for instance, that the figure of L. Ron Hubbard may have become, over the course of this blog’s existence, a less towering presence in your psychic landscape, as other “sources” have appeared and grown in significance.
Also, maybe there’s a sense out here that you are continuing to struggle with some of this. There’s so much to recorrelate and to reconcile. We got a glimpse of this in Joel Sappell’s recent article. I don’t think this reflects negatively on you at all — quite the contrary. It humanizes you and makes you identifiable. But it also creates a bit of kinetic tension: we feel you’re moving and evolving, and therefore that your writing at any given moment is a snapshot of where your thoughts stood at a particular time, not necessarily a comprehensive view of ALL your thinking, forever.
Speaking personally, I will always look forward to reading whatever you have to say. Bon courage!
As I said in response to your last post Marty — there isnt really anything more you can say to make your position clear. I don’t think you could have been any more clear than what you published here. Perhaps not everyone who comments on the blog had read the book….
Now there can be no doubt.
For my money this aligns completely with my own experience while out. I grew up a Scientologist and was a Sea Org member from a young age. After 25 years I found myself in the world and I was shocked to discover that the world was not full of people working tirelessly to destroy it, that there were “wogs” who were just fantastic people, that people had evolved answers for themselves. But what had the most impact on me is was using what I know of Scientology in the world. It worked and worked well. But when I used this knowledge it wasn’t from a viewpoint of being someone who knew better than everyone else. I used it from the viewpoint of someone who wanted to learn. I was entering the working world with no knowledge of how it worked. As I learned I gained in confidence, confidence that I could contribute to those around me in the career I was building for myself. And it was magical. I should say I’m not tech trained. I used my knowledge of the tone scale, ARC, the comm formula and the granting of beingness. It then occurred to me that Scientologists try to be monopolists of knowledge and on top of that they are first and foremost concerned about the PR of LRH and the Church. That burden isolates them from their environment. When I was happy to let the work of LRH stand or fall on its own merit I used it meaningfully for myself and those around me.
In short I became a Scientologist by leaving the Church of Scientology.
I am very open to tolerance but I worry about integration. As it is I feel certan that the technolgies of Scientology and Dianetics are the single biggest advance in the humanities ever. At least on this planet. For that reason I want to see the technology preserved rather than mixed in with weaker or even useless techniques. Ultimately I would liked to see Sceintoly used to aid people and raise their awareness. As it is most people are resistant to truly bettering themselves and often their interest in other technologies reflects that resistance. We obviously could make oursleves more popular if we accepted the use of mind altering drugs for example but in the end that won’t help anyone. Ultimately we need to stick with what is true and work with that.
It says in policy that we should wipe out unworkable technology. That has been subverted to mean all other technolgy other than Scientlolgy. That is wrong.
I like the Christian view that says “Love the sinner but hate the sin.” That’s a good way to go about living if you ask me.
Good luck to you Marty and Thanks for all you have done.
Brian
This was my favorite chapter last summer when I read the book.
It aligns to a high degree with my own views.
“Scientology works wonderfully when it integrates with society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others. Scientology harms when it seeks to segregate from society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others. If Scientologists do not learn to integrate, they will disintegrate as a potential meaningful influence.”
Marty,
You said:
“Perhaps not everyone who comments on the blog had read the book….” and that may be the truth to some degree, however my personal opinion concerning the apparent misconcepcions of what you are about is that in most cases you have been the subjet of what is known as Projection.
“Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.
Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.
An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure. The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and by redirecting libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or “projecting,” those same faults onto another person or object.
The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud—in his letters to Wilhelm Fliess, ‘”Draft H” deals with projection as a mechanism of defence'[2]—and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud, why it is sometimes referred to
as Freudian projection”
And apart from that, those people have shown very little respect and understanding of your personal development as a being and as a family man. In fact, it’s possible they may not give a shit about your feelings, they just want to continue projecting on to you.
But you know the old saying: Sticks and stones…..
Be well,
Alex
What surprised me in dealing with HCO terminals at my local org (San Francisco) was how quickly the concept of enemy can expand from the evil “psychs” to a group you would least suspect, such as “dowsers” (people who can find water and minerals using a forked twig or pendulum). No foolin. I was once hauled in for a “handling” that consisted of M9ing KSW#1 three times in a row with various HCO and Qual terminals while the EO hung over my shoulder, feeding me his cognition that “dowsing is bad.”
Hi Marty,
Thank you for posting this. I have to say that when I read your book, this was by far my favorite chapter. In fact, it moved me to tears. I had it on my to do list to write you a personal letter of thanks, but since you posted this, I will just thank you publicly.
The reason this moved me so much is that growing up I had a narcissistic father who was a devout Scientologist. I know now that he just used Scientology to justify his narcissistic behavior. He wasn’t around much, but when he was, he was constantly pummeling me with LRH quotes. He was the type of Scientologist that Mike Rinder described in one of this comments in your last post. If something couldn’t be countered with an LRH quote, then it wasn’t worth discussing. However, children are basically clay to be molded, and by the time I was a young man, my view of the world had become my father’s view. In college I used to openly criticize and ridicule those who sought counsel from psychologists or psychiatrists. And most especially those who took prescription medication for mental issues. In retrospect, I see how arrogant that was and I’m embarrassed when I think about what those people must have thought.
When I met my wife, this began to change. She was raised Catholic, but she had a much more worldly view about religion and spiritual issues. She began to crack the valance of my father that had consumed me. As I slowly began to realize certain things, and my own view of the world began to materialize, discussions with my father became more and more tension filled. They culminated with the Tom Cruise incidents where I basically made the exact same points you outline above. This was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and my dad cut off all communication with me. Once he saw that he could no longer control my view of things, he had no use for me.
So, the reason that this chapter in your book moved me so much, is that it is the discussion I always wanted to have with my father. Sadly, that discussion may never occur. But after reading this chapter, I almost felt like I had had it. It was extremely therapeutic. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted for me.
So, thank very much, Marty, for helping me on my own personal path of healing. It is a gift I can never repay. Please keep up all your great work.
Sincerely,
Yes, great chapter. It touches on the crux of the problem: How Scientology went from something that augmented a person’s life, helped them become a better whatever they wanted to be, to being the be and end all of everything, a thing unto itself, a law unto itself too for that matter (GO intell being only one of a number of examples of that).
And I agree that context is important to understanding what took place but more importantly feel that understanding what happened and how exactly Scientology morphed into a self centered, self orbiting, world rejecting group is the key to the subject’s future.
Marty, I read your first book, but it’s been many weeks ago. It was really good to read this section again –great stuff! – and very timely.
I agree with you about the literalness in which some of Hubbard’s writings can be taken and then taken and to extremes.
I think part of this can be explained by a defensiveness of reality which was under constant attack. I think also that as Scientology has become more and more ineffective and thus more and more under attack in Co$ as a result of dm’s’ Black Dianetics reign of terror, Corporate Scientologists have more and more adopted these positions to defend a shakier and shakier reality they find themselves living in.
Also, more and more prevalent these days in corp CoS is not training in Scientology but indoctrination in miscavigology. This lack of real training leads to a lack of judgment in the subject and opens the door to further misinterpretation and literalness, and flimsy reality to be defended.
Of course, if, as a corp scientologist you actually trained and acquired judgment in the subject of Scientology, and then if you attempted to express your realty, your opinions so formed – where is the agreement amongst your fellow group members in a thought policed censured environment called the Church of Scientology?
There’s also this: Hubbard on many occasions in his writings, differentiates the Technology he developed from his opinion. So, one thing lacking in the untrained but indoctrinated is balance between Tech and Opinion.
Thank you Marty and
I’m just thrilled that today I Celebrate my 75th day of being OUT AND FREE!
Marty, in response to, “Scientology works wonderfully when it integrates with society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others. Scientology harms when it seeks to segregate from society, civilization, and the philosophies and religions of others. If Scientologists do not learn to integrate, they will disintegrate as a potential meaningful influence.”
I’ve run three psychologists through the comm course since getting out of the church. All of them stated they were happy with the concept of using acknowledgements during their “talk therapy” sessions. One of them also trained on the HDA and incorporated the ideas of running through incidents and going earlier similar. That particular concept (earlier incident) was actually originated by Freud, for those who don’t know.
Is there really anything wrong with psychologists incorporating some basic tech into their own practice and thereby improving their ability to help theiir clients? Is it really necessary for them to credit scientology or dianetics or Ron when do so? Even if the concept was originated by someone else and and Ron incorporated it with or without acknowledging the author?
Should I villify them for not abonding their practice and “getting INTO scientology?” Should I be villified for not “getting them into scientology?”
Before you answer that, consider the following: The guy who did the HDA was told by the Tampa org that he was an illegal PC and they would not train him until he quit his practice. How sane is that?
I studied psychology at Simon Fraser University before getting into scientology. I’ve met a lot of psychologists. I have now trained a few on some basic scientology. The vast majority of psychologists I know are decent people who really want to help.
We could integrate a lot of useful ideas into the community of psychologists and could help them help others. But we certainly won’t effect that change by fostering the suppressive generality that they are all “whole track criminals.” My personal observation over many years is that that statement is not true. Psychologists, in general, are not the “enemy.” Whole track implanters like Miscavige are the “enemy” (if we even really have an “enemy”). Whole track implanter types can be found among the psychs. They can also be found in the church of scientology. I’ve even met a couple who claim to be independent scientologists.
One way to recognize them is by the ferocious dominance they exert while demanding you agree with their reality and the way they make you wrong for not supporting their personal view on things without question.
This is all just my opinion, of course.
Mike, that has got to be so true. Some people can’t or won’t read or if they do, can’t duplicate.
It has certainly been a very fascinating read getting through your last several blog postings and their subsequent comments.
Despite some commenteers apparently being surprised and even thinking you changed direction so to speak, I was more surprised how people would interpret your postings in such a manner.
Not only is your last book very well written and very clearly lays out your exact stand on the subject of Scientology, its current organization and its author but it also gives plenty of anecdotes to illustrate how you derived at the position you currently take.
The example above of Monique and her psychologist father and how their being and actions naturally portray some of the core principles of Scientology is very telling in more ways than one.
Though my own decompression story is far less dramatic it also parallels your story as far as observations in many aspects. When I first left the Sea Org I was initially mainly associated with public Scientologists. It wasn’t much different than in the SO. Many subject matters were taboo as far as bringing up and there were “supposed-to’s” everywhere I turned.
Instead of going to the far south of Texas I went to the far south of Hong Kong where I knew nobody except for my non-Scientologist wife-to-be. Despite Hong Kong being statistically and otherwise one of the least passionate places as far as people in the world due to its high focus on material things while human values are mainly getting the backseat, I was amazed how nice, helpful and generally compassionate some specific “wogs” were that I was initially introduced to.
My current best friends include an 88th degree Freemason, a devout Christian, a Yoga teacher, a restaurant owner who is also a Buddhist Master and studied under the Dalai Lama, a clinical psychologist, a political extremist who is also a Police Inspector overseeing the Hong Kong triads, a world-class bass player who was on CC lines 20 years ago but now consider himself an atheist, a Wing Chun master and Taoist who studied under Ip Man himself, etc, etc.
For all of the above people and anyone else I consider friends but didn’t mention I call them friends because of their personal qualities and actions and not because of their beliefs or associations or membership in organizations. It took 2 years to shed most of the ingrained “holier-than-thou” mentality which I indeed lived and breathed for over 20 years.
One of the contributing factors has been this blog as I have always found much agreement in Marty’s observations and reasoning with that of my own. This is curious in itself as Marty was not someone I considered a friend while at Int. Rather, I considered Marty a stuck-up, arrogant bully. And, I’m pretty sure he considered me pretty much the same way though the attributed modifiers would be more like out-ethics little know-best scumbag…
I don’t really know Marty personally but I am a strong believer in considering current actions and not those of the past and in the current I both share many of his experiences, have done similar research trails as him and often come to the same or very similar conclusions. When I have asked Marty for some advice he freely gave it to me and regardless of past feelings I now consider him a friend.
Do I always agree with Marty? No, especially in how he sometimes responds to people who are either confused or of a different opinion. Some people just want to argue or stir things up and I’m not considering those. Some people write 1.1 comments in the name of “love and care” and I don’t consider those. But I consider those who took quite some efforts to be understood and duplicated and they were either not acknowledged at all or they were acknowledged with a comment often with very little affinity. If I was the recipient of such I don’t think I would like it very much. To me personally there is not much more infuriating than not being acknowledged when you are honestly trying to communicate.
But this is Marty’s blog and sometimes I can understand if there simply isn’t enough time to deal with 300+ comments even if he wants to, but I don’t think this is always the case, and on such instances I disagree with his actions. It however doesn’t make me feel less about Marty or what he writes about which is why I’m reading the blog in the first place. Were I personally the subject of such acknowledgement or rather lack of, I would get pissed and maybe stop communicating as a result, but I wouldn’t stop reading the blog as the multiple viewpoints here about all manners of subjects which in some form or another touches close to my heart, is and has been helping me fully shed my bad past and enable me to really live in the present.
I don’t call myself a Scientologist anymore. I don’t have a label. I’m just me. I however use the philosophy of Scientology and integrate it into my life as it has proven to be successful as demonstrated daily. If someone asks I do say I attribute it to Scientology and LRH. I am not anti-LRH nor anti-Scientology in the slightest but they are not absolutes but rather sources of workable technology that is meant to be applied to better conditions for the living with the living.
I use ethics tech very often as I got very familiar with it on the RPF. I find it to be an extremely misunderstood subject. My personal evaluation is that ethics and justice are badly mixed up, possibly because we have an “ethics section” on the org board. Maybe it wasn’t named the “justice section” for PR reasons or maybe because for the 3rd dynamic group it is indeed ethics as well as justice, but for an individual the ethics section only applies to justice actions.
Many “ethics” references, meaning they are named “ethics…”, have to do with justice and they are often misunderstood. LRH clearly delineated ethics, justice and morals as far back as 1953 and he never changed those definitions. But I’m getting off subject here.
To summarize, I agree with Marty’s observations in the chapter above as it parallels my own observations, experience and knowledge and I too believe, actually I know – just read the books and references from 1950 and 1951 – LRH wanted Dianetics and Scientology to be fully integrated into existing systems within the society and to the degree it failed to do so, to the degree it became exclusive, to that same degree it turned into a cult and to a name that is the laughing stock of bloggers and media world-wide.
I first started reading this blog in 2010 and in the first blog posting that I stumbled upon Marty made it very clear he was not trying to be a leader. Not sure what Marty is ultimately trying to do, but what he has done for me is helping me decompress, even if remotely as well as open my eyes (with the help of many commenteers) to multiple new viewpoints. Also he has been pointing the way and opening up discussions to integrate Scientology into society, which I have been able to do in Hong Kong without much resistance because I’m only dealing with truth and I don’t have to defend some organization or individual (bad) actions – I can just apply and forward workable technology with demonstrable results.
I have a feeling this is not just a coincidental “side-effect” as far as what Marty’s intention(s) with this blog really is.
Thanks for keeping this blog!
Ulf
Mike what I love about you is that you have this amazing ability to say things like it is, without a shadow of doubt as to its interpretation. I know no clearer statements from anyone than you.
For someone who was indoctrinated by the master of new-babble malfeces drabble for so long I sometimes wonder how you came out on the other side having better communication skills than DM, Sherman and all their ducklings combined?
the only way to know it to walk and learn and grow.
I’ve been shedding my rigid thinking bit by bit over these last 3 years. I love what your wrote here.
Let’s remember that LRH was a Very Free Man. He was interested in what is workable. He would be the last person to think we should robotically follow a policy or piece of tech that we found not workable. But, senior to that is the fact that LRH and Scientology are not senior to us. What is true for you is true for you.
In most of my participation in Scientology I was either fsming new people or working in div 6. So I was always “out in the world.” So to speak. And maybe because of that or because of ” just the way I am” I always loved people. Sure, there’s a nasty one or two, but most have been so wonderful. Now that I am in the business world, I find the same thing. A jerk once in a blue moon, but most people are fantastic.
People have come up with all kinds of workable tech. Treating people like you want to be treated is one. Chicken soup, another LOL. I think one loses if you close your eyes to everything but Scientology.
LRH was a genius and Scientology tech does work. People suffer, people are not able to achieve the goals they want for themselves, they have barriers of various kinds to their happiness. The Church has created an atmosphere where the people that would reach for auditing are scared to go near the subject. This was really quite a feat if you think about it. So what to do?? Create an atmosphere where people Will reach for auditing. Islands of friendliness. Safe spaces. As Marty mentioned about the people of south Texas. offer people Respect, no invalidation, no evaluation. Do not overwhelm their self determinism. Work to restore it. People are struggling. Be gentle. Only do actions that lead to increased freedom for people. Be honest. Scientology tech does do miracles large and small. No need to hyper promote. Just be effective. Miscavige is ridiculous! The Church is off the rails. Grassroots is the way. Back to the basics.
FORCE is not the way. You can’t enslave a person to free him.
People will flock to workable tech. Just like they flock to other things like beautiful places, exciting movies, to buy the I phone LOL. They will move toward theta. The actions of the church have prevented the natural attraction of the tech. Hell, even we are no longer there!
Marty is a free man. Free to look, free to find truth, free to read and apply anything he wants. Free to differentiate. That you met Mosey’s Dad and observed what you observed and like him, is in my opinion the correct road.
Scientology can only be reformed from within. I think you and some others are in an unique position to do that. You were once one with the machine, but you came out and now have as well a deep knowledge of the subject as the necessary distance to see the wrong and the right things.
Life itself is the great teacher. If Scientology wants to be a teacher too, it has to become part of life. It has to learn to be very humble.
I’ve read both of Marty’s books and strongly recommend them. I hope more come out.
The excerpts that show LRH’s shift in attitude toward psychology is interesting and telling. He moves from acknowledgment to minimal acknowledgment and eventually antipathy and call for destruction.
Now, I asked myself, what does this sound like? An unresolved ARC-X? A misunderstood word leaving hostility toward a subject? A motivator used to justify an overt? Could LRH have benefited from auditing to handle the charge on the subject of psychology?
What I just wrote may not sit well with some readers. How dare I suggest such a thing? But what am I suggesting? Just that the valid principles of the mind and consciousness apply to all of us, just as the laws of physics apply to the entire universe (as best anyone can tell).
Let’s face it. The evolving LRH position on psychology leaves a rote folower with a problem. Which statement to believe — that Freud is owed a debt or that Freud should be destroyed without remorse or sorrow? Both views come from “source.”
This is also where critical thinking has to come into play. Take the assertion that all crime comes from “psychs.” Okay then. That would imply that before psychology there was no crime. Yet even a minimal knowledge of human culture tells us there are and have always been crimes of property, violence, and even genocide long before psychology emerged as a field.
As another example of historically inept claims, take the claim that “psychs” were responsible for the WW II holocaust of Jews, Gypsies, disabled, others. Freud was himself a Jew as were many of the early psychologists. How likely would it be that they would assist in crafting a holocaust on their own families, selves, and ethnicity?
Go further back in history. How would the “psychs” have been responsible for the Armenian holocaust committed by the Turks? For the decimation of indigenous American populations through disease and violence by the European invaders? For the pillaging of the Vikings? For the Spanish Inquisition? For the holocaust on women burnt as witches across Europe? These latter did not emerge from “psychs” — they emerged from _organized religion_! Organized religion is a type of third dynamic group of which CoS, Inc. claims membership.
Is the above a defense of what may be wrong in psychology and psychiatry? Absolutely not. I personally believe that drugs are over-prescribed and have special concerns that so many mass murders have been committed by young men apparently on medications known to predispose some people to violent ideation and action.
What I am suggesting is _non-defense_. Non-defense of what may be wrong in Scientology. Non-defense of what may be wrong in psychology and psychiatry. A commitment to open thought, dialogue, and solid analytical and critical thinking.
No one can get there by being a dogmatist: First, LRH had some statements that severely conflict with known science and even with his own declarations across time. Second, being a dogmatist, in my opinion, goes directly against what LRH was trying to teach in the first place.
More than two cents I know but thank you for the opportunity to express.
In your last post I made the comment that people still having trouble and making trouble, really hadn’t read your book to full, conceptual understanding. This is probably the best part of your book, as it opens wide the door to the only handling that applies to all – yet will be very different for each individual, because it validates and invites the most valuable component of Scientology – the restoration of self-determinism.
My observation matches that found in the Affinity-Reality-Communication triangle, where reality is defined as “agreement.” Agreement makes the group. And even though that group remains “leaderless” and even “undefined” to some degree, it is still a group.
These last posts have awakened my purposes to be a contributing member of the group, even though my own views may not always be broadly acceptable. It provides the basic agreements that allow us to grow individually with “Respect for Others’ Religious Beliefs” and freedom of thought and speech, in full and optimum balance.
That opens the door to real, genuine “justice.” With mercy and tolerance. With a “light touch.” With ARC.
Because for those of us coming out of the cult, on that point we have to realize we are “cleared cannibals.” Some of us have some distance to go. Personally, I know of no more challenging area for me and others I have worked with, since my beginning days of staff in the org.
“Man cannot be trusted with justice.” I know there are exceptions to this, but they are all too rare.
Almost every religion aspires to this ideal. The brilliant essay, “What is Greatness” expresses it, and many, many other great persons in history wrote it and lived it.
Now is the time to finish my little essay here with “Love is the Answer” and walk off whistling into the sunset. But I’d rather be real and offer a reminder:
The very reason for Dianetics and Scientology – for handling the overwhelm of an “engram” – for “self-improvement” – was I think, precisely because “Love is the Answer” and “Think Positive – Think and Grow Rich” just doesn’t cut it for many people.
Those positive urges must be there to get anywhere in life, and should be validated, but the hidden traps are there, for many – those blind spots to self-understanding that block success are there, for many. The examination and removal of these hidden barriers are what makes auditing and study of these subjects so valuable.
Intelligent application of these subjects has removed many of these barriers for me, and brought me happiness. I want to share the joy, and I want to see others benefit similarly.
But I have made a deep study of the history – good, bad and ugly – both technical development and organizationally – the ‘outside observer’ reports – and I have these things in perspective now. Hubbard was the great facilitator – not the sole ‘source.’ I credit his predecessors, his associates, his devoted wife and companions, and even his ‘squirrel’ competitors and researchers, with bringing about not just a ‘technology’ but a -movement- that has us fascinated with the possibilities ahead.
So removing all the stops to investigating the breadth and depth of personal growth technology, is about the most valuable thing you could do, in my opinion. If you examine all this for yourself, and find that “Standard Tech” as it was left to us, does it for you – more power to you. If you find and share new things, that’s great, too. I would just like to be able to be friends with all of the above, without fear of the installed fanaticism, that’s all.
I think I can speak for others in that so many of us would like that, and that’s why this development is so exciting.
I just have to end this reiterating this thousands-old quote that really is the great secret. Perhaps it is senior to “Love is the Answer,” since its keeping might actually insure that lost love can always be found and restored:
“What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher? What is a bad man but a good man’s job? If you do not understand this, you will get lost, however intelligent you are. It is the great secret.” – Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
Thanks again, Marty.
Scott Gordon – Auditor Class 0+
Commonly practiced ‘help is betrayal’ is one of the more difficult aspects of life to get your head around. It takes a compassionate and brave person to persist under such an attitude. Medical people, police, social workers, religious people, auditors etc all deserve far more recognition than they get. Life can be pretty awful sometimes. Image what it would be like without those that pick up the pieces when it all goes very wrong? Comfort and compassion are truly priceless.
Scientology has a great potential in that area, but so does anyone who has a good heart – technique comes later, intention is what matters.
The robots of corporate Scientology will themselves require what they deny others when their own attitude catches up with them, such silly people.
Yup – RTFM! (read the f***ing manual). Works for me.
I agree with Mike 100%.
I understand and agree with every word in “Integrate or Disintegrate”. Not only that, but it is beautifully written and something I can and will share with anyone who is curious about Scientology but whose view of it has been tainted by the pathetic examples set over recent years by so many Corporate DM Kool Aide Drinking So-Called “Scientologists”.
Marty, achieving wisdom is often painful. We loose our glibness as we move higher in real understanding. Its a road worth travelling. Its been a great 4 years benefiting from the viewpoints and wisdom shared here. And my sense is that you wouldn’t trade places right now with anyone else in the world, past or present . Happy for you.
Great post Marty. I loved every word.
Whether I believe you or not is not why I return to your blog. It is because you resonate the truth I looked for in 1972 and lost later. I felt that there was a hierarchy when I came into the FCDC org but I felt it was something I needed to attain just like the Bridge. I still believe there is a powerful workable tech if you will, that can provide the compassion the ancients spoke of. Please keep doing what you are doing at least I appreciate it. With much ARC Bill Dupree
PS I do have and read both your books and look forward to the history one as well…Bill Dupree
Thanks Ulf. Please email me the thread that most bothered you (concerning the comments you allude to).
I read your book when it first came out and I’m happy you reprinted this excerpt. Because it’s sometimes easy to forget what you thought you’d learned. The observations and analysis you expressed in this excerpt make total sense.
Love that post. = )
+1 This is the chapter that “woke me up” the most. I loved auditing others, I loved seeing the results in people, and I loved that they loved it too. The darn stuff WORKS when it is used correctly. So why make “rules” that limit what you can experience or not experience? Won’t the true results float to the surface and hold their position amongst the other activities? Or help someone enhance those other activities? Only towards making the many layers of their life better.
The technology of Scientology, (not the rules and limitations) are what brings about the remarkable changes. For me it’s still the idiot rules and policies and demeaning activities that flourished and were heavily enforced in the wacko sea org that I am still recovering from. Thankfully I have similar people that provide love and friendship (and some darn good auditing) and I’m almost done climbing out of that deep hole.
I was amazed when two of these new friends told me in confidence that at tough points in their lives they had seen a psychologist and had benefitted greatly from the visits. When I first heard that I felt like I wasn’t allowed to believe them. But their body language and their personal expressions told me that they meant it and it was true. Wow. Welcome to the world outside, huh?
To make a really long story short, the main thing that was important to me from Day One when I realized what the Dianetics book was all about, and Day Two when I started in an org in 1973, was that if you learn the technology correctly and USE it correctly you will get stellar results. If you don’t you get crappy results and people upset with you. If you received auditing and are happy with it, fantastic. If you received auditing and hated it or felt bad at the end, it was not done correctly. That is SOOOOO simple to use as a guide that all the other chitter-chatter is useless. It’s the RESULTS.
Here is a hard cold reality–If you’re that untrained that you can’t get the results, of course you would be scared that other practices or ideas would be better than you. Yeah—they just might be.
I think this has some truth and some conclusions you draw that perhaps were helpful for you, but I’m not sure if they align with my views. I dont see how it is helpful to have an open discussion on everyones opinions of how LRH was wrong, of target, off the rails. How he created policies that were incorrect or his pinions and attitudes regarding certian things were off base or based on his own personality faults. I believe in your writings you suggest that perhaps his attitude towards psychiatry was caused reactively by his feelings being hurt from being attacked. I am still of the opinion that psychiatry as a whole, as it is currently being used on earth is harmful. There are of course some good people who have studied it and do manage to help people to a degree, but I would like everyone to really confront psych drugs, court mandated psych drugging, child psych drugging, and other current and historical practices of psychiatry. Psychiatric treatment generally bars spiritual, mental and physical improvement and health. Miscagive uses this truth to fill his coffers and for power the way our government uses “terrorism”. This doesnt mean its not a truth though.
I agree that communication is good, but I also think a lot of this discussion leads to group agreement. I’ve never seen anything good come out of the type of group discussion happening here recently. People are taking your views and it becomes their reality, then others add in and that sort of becomes the overriding reality. Right now it seems like this is: LRH was a little nutty, particularly towards the end. We should take what he did and pick and choose what we think is correct and not correct. We should “integrate” with other subjects and the group agreement of society so as to be less controversial. Etc. I may have that wrong.
I understand LRH was volatile and that he did a lot and created a vast subject and that not all of it fits every situation- policies for example. I think a judgement of it ideally should be something someone gets after he understands it and can apply it instead of just scholarly quoting of policies or tech. I think your recent surveys and discussions bypass that step and invite a reactive group agreement. People giving their opinion on auditing, past lives, OT3 etc who only know of these things from what they read on the internet or this blog helps nothing IMO. it doesnt forward any understanding, it only creates the kind of enviroment you see over on the ESMB. If I want information about OT3 I’ll ask Tom Martiniano or guys I think might have experience with it- Dan Koon, Jim Logan, Les Warren etc, or you. Preferably guys who have or are auditing it. I think Tom even supervised it. Those are the kind of opinions I want. I think they would tell me to do it when I get there and focus on my next level. What would you tell me about it?
I fully understand that the Church and the subject itself to some degree is off the rails. I still think the correct target is Miscavige and perhaps our own laziness and acceptance of outpoints in the Church.
I also believe that application and preservation of the unaltered tech of Scientology is probably the best medicine. Mosey observed you applying Scientology and recognized it was good and then you audited her and I assume she got the results of that which are a beautiful, amazing, life changing thing. I dont understand why the urge to make it more complicated than that. Why cant we just handle the suppression and have more of that?
All the anaysis and opinions and group think, I dont think it goes anywhere. It’s a dead end Marty. In the beginning the blog was very valuable because there was pure data. People (and you) who were there were recounting firsthand experiences. Knowedgable people were writing valuable, applicable data that was de-enturbulating a lot of people. Personal opinions, discussions of tech by untrained persons, critiques of policy (always negative) are much less helpful in my opinion. I do not believe that publishing your personal views on what is wrong with Scientology and LRH is going to lead to a “healing” or greater acceptance by society.
That to me seems like a wrong target. I think a correct target would be a removal of Miscavige, and correction back to standard actions that result in the VFP’s of Scientology and Oganizations.
Is that where this is heading? If you cant say yes, I would like to know why
Marty, I thought your chapter explained your position clearly and eloquently. Having been on both sides of the fence I have seen that Hubbard’s basic tech works and can help restore people’s self determinism. But that is not possible as you say, if it is channeled through a strict maze of dogma and contrived rules. The question is how do you maintain the quality of delivery without some guidelines, monitoring and structure?
HCO Policy Letter 7 February 1965, KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING, for starters, supplemented by many justice policy letters of the mid sixties.
Ulf — thanks for the complement.
The difficulty Dear Leader, Sherman and the rest have is that they cannot just tell the truth, everything is a cover-up, embellishment or outright lie. It makes communication VERY difficult when the “R” in the ARC triangle is not a truth….
Since you’ve read so much into this chapter that was never stated nor intended, it leads me to the conclusion that attempting to answer your questions will likely fuel more off-topic speculation and dub in. I did duplicate and understand your position with respect to the chapter and what I do generally. I’d say the chances of shutting me up or putting me into an opterm with a phantom (Miscavige) are rather slim.
As regards, “There was no limit to the effectiveness of Scientology when it was offered and delivered with the sole, unadulterated intent to service and to help. It was completely acceptable and understandable to people when it was not marketed, sold, or covertly forced upon them. It enhanced and reinforced the good lessons that people learned from any number of sources, when it was not used to dissuade people from listening to or learning from other sources. After another three years of delivering Scientology on the same basis to former members of Scientology Inc. and to people new to the subject altogether, those observations have been further validated.”
I have found this to be very true in my auditing outside the confines of the church.
More recently I have been supervising a couple of students on the Communication Course and the rapidity with which the students duplicate and understand the materials is stunning.
Their ability to do the drills is like nothing I experienced with new folks in the church.
I think that a lot of people could grasp basic Scientology and apply it rather quickly and easily, if given some material and allowed to use it.
I did some Book 1 on a rather out-exchange, slightly criminally inclined person. He had great wins. I then loaned him a copy of Self Analysis and got him going on it.
He later told me that he recognized that the book was about him and written to him.
He is having good wins on the auditing from the book.
As regards duplication and understanding:In my studies over the years I observed that LRH repeated things many times in various ways. A lot of his work seemed to consist of finding better ways, or other ways, to communicate things.
Just think about all the corrective technology that came about to get things duplicated and understood.
Misunderstoods and false data play their roll in inhibiting understanding, but I believe that bypassed charge (mental energy or mass that has been restimulated in some way in an individual, and that is either partially or wholly unknown to that individual and so is capable of affecting him adversely) plays a big roll in inhibiting duplication and understanding.
I have found this to be true for me.
My ability to duplicate and understand has improved greatly with auditing and training (and I am aware that further improvement is possible!).
There is also the frustration and upset from the inability to get oneself duplicated by some people, even when one has communicated as simply and clearly as possible.
My own inability to tolerate this one has caused me and others a great deal of difficulty and upset.
This is something that I am working on handling in myself – applying TRs better in life.
It’s improving, though I am not satisfied with it yet.
In the church one could always threaten, yell, write KRs, impose penalties, etc.
That doesn’t fly in real life in the real world (judging from how the churches are doing it looks like it doesn’t work in there either!). Out here one has to confront what is and communicate to who is.
I have to say that it is much more fun out here.
Your blog thread above makes me think of two critical books.
Roy Wallis’ 1977 book, “The Road to Total Freedom” mentions some of what I agree are the biggest problems with why Scientology will never be a widely accepted nor influential religion. Wallis implies that by the late 1950s, LRH had sealed up the cracks enough organizationally in his organizations, so as to create a subject, even though it was still evolving, there wasn’t even a Grade Chart Bridge to Total Freedom in the late 1950s, but LRH had put his “Hubbard” stamp on everything, and was going franchise mode.. This pushed a lot of the support he had from fringe splinter like supporters, out of the picture.
And one earlier book, Dr. J.A. Winter’s 1951 book, “Dianetics: A Doctor’s Report”, brings up downsides to how LRH was reacting to the early problems with the first organizations.
The most bitter early critical book about LRH, is the chapter on LRH in Martin Gardner’s book, “Fads and Fallacies”, and as hard as this chapter might be for Scientologists to read, Gardner’s views convinced and changed my views about LRH even more.
I also learned a tremendous amount surfing the internet, reading Kima Douglas’ accounts of working for LRH, and Helen O’Brian’s “Dianetics In Limbo”, and Otto Roos’ story, and Ken Urquhart’s writings.
A whole heck of alot of discussion has already gone on, about LRH’s strong willed nature, and frankly what I today consider his own irrational prejudices and unhandled case, which he’s unfortunately institutionalized, and which is why, to me, as unlikely as this will seem, the think tank, the Exec Strata, is the long range only solution official Scientology has, to undo the deep institutionalized faults that LRH laid into the church multi echeloned bureaucracies.
This type of discussion can’t happen in the movemet, as it evolved even under LRH, when LRH was alive.
It will inevitably happen, first hear, outside, where all those discussing it openly are already excommunicated and are thus no longer under any threat of penalty.
Too bad, this discussion couldn’t be broadened to the whole Scientology movement. (All the wrong SP declares, could be overturned, with an unconditional amnesty, since there is plentiful evidence in every SP declare I’ve ever heard, of some aspects of policy injustice in every SP declare.)
The big loophole to outflank what I consider Hubbard’s flaws he’s institutionalized into the movement, for them on the inside, is DM sidelined and removed from the scene entirely, and then build up and educated Exec Strata and WDC evolved and them then start undoing the totalitarian stuff inside the movement, and strip out all that’s been validly complained about for these first 6 decades of the movement’s history.
I’d be curious to know if freezone Scientologists allow use of psychiatric drugs, like Prozac, and allow Scientologists seek psychiatric care when major mental health issues arise. I sure hope so.
Then God bless Jim Banks and Monique Banks Rathbun for helping to lead you out of the torture chamber.
Dear Marty
Even though I have read the book twice, it was really heart warming to read that section again, and be reminded of what a compassionate and caring person you are. Not that I needed reminding. I agree with everything you have said here today and take the chance now to thank you again for providing the door (this blog – with all its truth and library of information about the sinking ship of Corporate Scientology) for so many of us to walk safely through it and out to the real world! Where the people are marvellously kind and caring and fun!
One thing I have noticed in my nearly 7 months of gorgeous, glorious, life-giving freedom from the suppressive Church, is that the communications I regularly receive fall into two main categories:
1. Comm from active Auditors and Scientologists and other people who like to help people in life and are actually doing it; and
2. Comm from Theorist, Would-Be-If-They-Could-Be, Gonna-Be-Auditors and Scientologists and other people of the same ilk.
The communication from the first group is a joy to receive and we get on great.
The latter group are keen for a fight, an argument on any point in Scientology that is their favourite hobby horse. LRH to them is a Demi-God, and every word he spoke was sacred and to be obeyed to the letter. Yet between them all you could hardly find a single one who could give a good PTS interview, or help a friend to do a really good O/W write up that would bring them out of despair and into happiness again – let alone deliver a good session and erase a chain of losses and release a friend from the crippling news of the death of a loved one . Keen to point out our faults and foibles, this latter group know those references cold and can come back at you with all sorts of lofty statements from LRH in an effort to prove you wrong and make themselves right. And every other person on planet earth that is a “WOG” to them and definitely to be pitied because they don’t know the “truth” of life. Often looking down from the esteemed state of OT they have an answer for everything and a very good reason to explain why their own life is in tatters.
I would rather have one non-Scientologist with a basic understanding of the concept of the reactive mind, and a rough but loving attempt at finding an earlier similar to help his sister with her recent upset at work, than a busload of self righteous OT’s who have never reached out to a neighbour or a friend and made him a coffee and chatted with him to find out what it is that has made them sad in an effort to bring some relief to him, yet can recite the Green Volumes backwards and recount glorious stories of “back in the day” when the course room was packed to the rafters for the Comm Course, blah blah blah. Yawn. Who cares! It’s not like that now, and it isn’t likely to be while you are the one we are depending on to make it like that!
Who cares? Not me. In my 20 past years in Scientology these same two groups have always been evident. The holier than though would-be-if-they-could-be’s and the people who “do” things to help others every day no matter what using whatever they know or can get their hands on.
Marty, I suggest that you just keep doing what you are doing, saying whatever you want to say, and you don’t bother engaging in any kind dialogue or justification for your statements with these dickheads – as we say in Australia!. There are enough people in your HUGE group for you to ignore them and just get on with it. And after all it is your blog and it is your right. You are not answerable to anybody.
I am not exclusively in your group or any other group. I am free to be and do whatever I please. I know who I am and I am also an Auditor. And my own group, which is made up of Auditors who want to audit more, is flourishing. And so are all the other groups I belong to – my neighbours, my friends, my family, etc etc etc. I don’t expect you to be perfect. I don’t expect everything you say to align with anything that has been said or written before. You are you and I am me, and like anything I read, I don’t expect the author to have made his opinion politically correct before he wrote them. But one thing for sure is that I owe you. So you have my loyalty.
And for the record, I am no longer a Scientologist. I am free! I am sure you will not hold that against me.
Wendy
I’ve gained knowledge from a lot of different sources in my life, but the subject that I’ve become the most conversant with and that has helped me the most is Scientology.
Within the subject of Scientology, essential to one’s success is becoming oneself again. As long as one is out of valence one cannot personally benefit from the knowledge he gains and is thus limited in his spiritual advancement. That the technology of Dianetics and Scientology is capable of handling that problem is a universe changing breakthrough. Further, LRH also discovered that being out of valence is a barrier to conceptual understanding in his “World out of Comm” eval. After all, what good is data if you can’t think and create with it?
While I do not think that LRH is the sole source of worthwhile knowledge, I do think that Scientology does profoundly help me to understand knowledge expressed by (and truth contained in) other viewpoints.
In as far as a workable technology for rapid spiritual advancement goes, I cannot think of another that surpasses the technologies of Dianetics and Scientology. In this, I would say that what LRH was conveying with the ten points of KSW is that since this tech works – “let’s keep it working”. Point three, “Knowing it is correct” indicates to me as the point where any difficulty lies for any Scientologst who has a problem in “knowing how to know”.
Those were just my thoughts regarding your post and the blog recently. I thought it might help to communicate them. I don’t think I’m in a position to “shut you up” whatever that means. You are the only one who could do that. I wish you would not do that. I feel like I brought up some valid points. Maybe I’m full of shit. Usually when I debate I come to an understanding that is different than my original premise.
How will I know where I’m wrong unless you debate instead of insulting me and calling my comments “dub-in” (Scientology label). you saying my commments are dub-in to me means I’m a low toned, reactive case who imagines false data or something. Is that what you meant?
Marty, Over the past year of following your blog, and especially with this post (and both your books), I take note of and strongly appreciate your thoughtfulness and deliberateness. Both those qualities are called for in this work we are involved in, as Independent Scientologists. Seeing clearly, responding without reacting. Thank you lots.
What is the “Op-Term”? you came out and exposed data about Miscavige and identified him as the problem. That is not “op-term”. Look at your “31 Reasons”. Thats not opterm, it’s whistleblowing. It’s exposing the Why.
Is he not the Right Why?
Alex – you are so right! When I read Marty’s blog, I see so much “projection” in the comments. So many people are looking to Marty to be what they want him (or themselves) to be. When he doesn’t live up to their expectations, even by having another opinion, they become upset.
Marty is his own man. No one has a right to expect him to be what they want.
I understand what you’re saying here Chris, and I sense your frustration. From my view this is what I see: there is almost nothing in Scientology Marty isn’t intimately famliar with. What he doesn’t know, conceptually, about the subject almost isn’t worth knowing.
On top of that he’s seen both the subject and interpretations and bastardisations of it from so many different angles. That’s different to me, and probably to you too. He’s audited the great and the good of the celebrity world, he’s done it all. When you become a master of your trade – any trade – and you can truly “play the piano” with it, you have earned the luxury of being able to do things with it that don’t seem “right” at first.
I have been priveleged to see may different people in their respective trades operate at such a level that it is just bewildering and confusing. I took a computer to be repaired once to a consumate expert with computers. I was horrified at the way he seemed to be yanking around this supposedly delicate item of unbelievably complex hardware and software. At one point he actually got a hammer to it – I’m not joking – saw it with my own eyes (from behind my hands as I could barely watch). Twenty minutes later after stubbing his fag out into a half-eaten lasagne, he announced it was “all done”. It worked perfectly ever since. On a completely different level, have you ever watched Lionel Messi play football? He does things with a ball that just aren’t physically possible – I mean it’s just jaw-dropping.
It’s almost as if he’s gone right through the entire subject, practically and intellectually, and come out the other side. You know the old datum about knowing the tech of something, REALLY knowing it, and applying it, you CANNOT be the adverse effect of it? That’s what I see anyway.
Only other thing I’d say is that far from trashing anything about Scientology or its Founder, in WIWWS Marty made the whole subject far more enticing and real for me. Hope this helps.
This I learned from one sentence of PB back in -86. There is only one source.
Conduct a survey.
ML/A
I thought that Keeping Scientology Working was about Scientogy. Can you refer me to what parts of this PL support this? I can see it forbids combining other practices with Scientology, but that is just to keep Scientology unaltered and workable. He said it wasnt perfect, but it was a workable body of tech.
I removed the “s” from the “https”
In science you use models to explain phenomena and formulate laws. Like the model of the atom. In physics and chemistry different models are used for the atom. In physics you can define gravity with that physics model of the atom . But within chemistry that model of the atom is different to describe chemical reactions. If you mix that you confuse both subjects. A model is not the TRUTH but a way to visualize the truth. Ron formulated a model. Like Thetan – Mind – Body. That model can be used to think with and formulate laws and axioms. If you mix that model of man with other models you confuse that subject. In order to understand Scientology you have to stick with the model Ron set up. This model is not the TRUTH. This model is used to communicate the way to OT. With that model you cannot explain physical phenomena like gravity. As people can sometimes be very stupid they do not grasp those prinziples and confuse a scientific model with the TRUTH.
Ron said, stick to my model. That’s all. Because if you do not stick to his model you cannot understand his writings. But his model cannot be used to describe everything. His model is still a model. He used his model of life and existence to communicate laws and tech. If you want to do a different thing his model is useless. Thus you cannot integrate but have to differenciate. But that is only true for the communication within Scientology. And that is only that way to be able to have a common ground for communication. That does not exclude other schools of wisdom. Those other schools have a different model. If you want to understand other wisdoms you have to use their model to describe things and formulate laws and axioms.
RG, your observations of Marty seems very true. He is and has
been developing and increasing in knowledge the more he reads
and integrates this with what he already knows. However, the
basics are in my opinion always there and will not change. I am
talking about what you learn in Scientology re what the basic being
is and how to get him out of the traps he has gotten himself into.
Auditing works wonderfully and I have found nothing even close
that enhances a person spiritually like LRH tech. Yes, of course
there are other subjects, religions and therapies that can benefit
and sometimes help a lot but they also have all the basic tenets
of what Scientology teaches. LRH was very result oriented and
that is what will make his Tech survive even DM’s feeble attempts
to obliterate it.
Marty,
I, too, am an outsider who reads your blog regularly. Like Richard I see you exploring new ideas, learning and growing. I admire your courage in sharing your journey with the world through your blog and your books. It has helped me to better understand the exes and those still ensnared in Co$. I am sure you are helping many both out and still in the Co$ work through the process.
Thank you.
Another recommended book, is “The Variety’s of Religious Experience” by William James, long dead, but still a major “open-minded” psychologist very tolerant look at religions and the people who start new religious sects.
And I was reminded by William James, by listening to this very tolerant religion subject in general interview by Robert Wright, on blogginheads.tv, where Wright interviews a lot of current smart cookies in academia, blogs, and the think thanks in DC, etc. (I surf blogginheads,tv to watch the interviews and chatting, one on one, between quite a lot of smart current journalists and academics and think tank people)
http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/9579
Eric Weiner’s book is discussed, “Man Seeks God”. I’m hardcore atheist, but much interested in religion and comparative religion, to put my Scientology “expertise” in perspective, and hopefully someday a better future for Scientology comes about!
Weiner throws in William James’ book, and believe me, what ALL of the current books, even Reitman’s and Urban’s omits, is the wider academia accepted nod to William James and his tolerant open mindedness regarding religions and religion starters.
People who are Scientologists would do well to push Scientology into intelligent discussion within the wider tolerant religion discussion, my two cents.
Read William James, in other words, and hindsight figure out what has to be reformed, deep, backwards into official Scientololgy.
Or else, I hope Exec Strata and WDC members at least are authorized to read any intelligent discussions that go on on this blog!
“One way to recognize them is by the ferocious dominance they exert while demanding you agree with their reality and the way they make you wrong for not supporting their personal view on things without question”
(Excellent observation:)
Marty –
I loved this chapter of your book. In it you detail Hubbard’s slide down the tone scale, and the CDEI scale, with regard to “the psychs” as his life progressed, and show how Scientology teachings themselves followed that slide in this area.
I can see why you became aware of this, because Monique and your father in law acted as spectacular examples of real life that did not correspond to Hubbard’s teachings. I like to think that you “woke up” with regard to Hubbard’s teachings in this area.
Have you ever traced Hubbard’s, and Scientology’s, declines in other areas besides the psychs?
For instance, what about civil rights? The Creed of the Church of Scientology of the 1950’s recognizes many civil rights as what “We of the Church Believe”. But by the early 1960’s in his lecture on “Handling the Public Individual” Hubbard says “What has rights? Those computing circuits?”
This reduces human beings down to their “mental circuitry” and their “banks”, and denies them civil rights in environments controlled by Scientology. Hubbard also said in 1951, that anyone below 2.0 on the tone scale should have “no civil rights of any kind” in “Science of Survival”. This stance on civil rights is highly problematic for anyone who believes in a free society.
There are a lot of other areas where Hubbard degraded as time went on. I believe that the creation of the Sea Org itself was a dive into the anger band of the tone scale, and the enforce band of the CDEI scale.
So if you are aware of all these areas of degradation and decline of Scientology as Hubbard himself degraded mentally, and you have come to see with your own eyes how Scientology manifested as a philosophy in the Church, I am asking you sincerely: How can you responsibly recommend Scientology to others knowing ultimately where following Hubbard will lead?
I am asking you this sincerely and without intention to insult you. You recommend following Hubbard to others, and you are responsible for those recommendations. How will you avoid these degradations in others who take your advice, and who know less than you where the problems areas lead, and who study Hubbard as a spiritual leader?
I know that your easy answer is “Don’t take him literally”. But you must acknowledge that when L Ron Hubbard is not writing figuratively, he is writing literally – especially if one is to follow “standard tech, ethics and admin” with no false data, MUs, or alterations.
So with your experience and your training in Scientology, and knowing where following Hubbard leads in these areas, how do you handle your recommendation to follow Hubbard responsibly for those who are not as experienced or as trained as you are?
Alanzo
Marty this is truth.
Ron was imprecise in ’82 and perhaps tired of the fakers vilifying Scientology. There were 50,000 lobotomies perpetrated by Psychiatrists in the US alone, most of them done during the early days of Dianetics. Lord knows how many people were drugged, shocked, and imprisoned in the name of “therapy” by psychiatrists and others, and yet Scientology was the threat to humanity. I understand Ron’s frustration.
But, Ron targeted psychs and priests. His imprecision was being too general and knocking ALL of them.
There are evil people. If someone is evil and wants to be in a position to control and inflict damage, what profession would he choose? Banking. The priesthood. And the healing arts, especially mental health. But to assume that all practitioners are evil because some are is stupidity. I honestly think Ron did not go there but his words are what they are.
But Miscavige took this and milked the hell out if it. Ron may have said get rid of psychs but he never posited that as a mandate for the church. It took literal minded people to read a condemnation of bad psych practices by Ron to be a “mission from god”. I mean how would Ron get rid if psychiatry? He would grow Scientology and take over its function. He would not, and did not, invest serious beans into shifting the PR of the church to killing psychs.
Okay, so what does this mean? In the context of what you wrote here?
A basic fundamental is that Man is basically good. Most psychiatrists, psychologists and priests are good people doing the best they can. There are good practices in other religions and in psychology/psychiatry that produce results. It is naive to ignore that and naive to shut yourself off to the good things that others are doing.
We are here to know. We have tools to do so. To integrate means to be part of and interact with each other. To block others means to individuate and go out of communication with others, making you less effective and more miserable. How is that Scientology?
So yes, Marty, I agree with your assessment. I am really glad you met Mosey and her father. And I am really glad you are hosting this discussion.
For Scientology ‘to integrate or not to integrate’ comes literally down to ‘to be or not to be’.
I do have some thoughts on integration. For several decades I have been a field auditor and boy have I had to deal with how to fit in. I started out in Denver where there is a small Scientology field-I had to go out into the
world to build my practise. I joined network groups and went to Chamber of Commerces. I presented myself as a Scientologist, but I did it with ARC and friendliness.
You can be a green alien from Mars and I can assure you, once people get over the shock, with enough ARC,you will be very accepted.
I also keep as my main purpose to help people. I don’t expect everyone to become a “Scientologist,” I help them with their marriages, their jobs or their kids and they are very happy and have great feelings about Scientology. And then some go WOW I want it all.
Results are, of course, very important and for me I have found Standard Tech to consistently achieve those.
Do I feel this is an incredible technology?-you bet. Is this real to a new person?-nope. It is not a point of R for them, so why come across in an obnoxiously ‘superior” way? Believe me, I constantly meet incredible people who are very smart and to treat them as not would be very stupid on my part. Consequently, I have a life with “non-Scientologists” as I do with Scientologists.
I think there was a difference, too, between what “staff” were effectively allowed and expected to do, and what “public” (the general membership) were allowed and expected to do.
One of the lines that became increasingly blurred, and has now nearly vanished in the RCS, was the imposition of “all policy” on every Scientologist everywhere.
The public, in my view, were freely reading and studying whatever they wanted through the 60s and 70s, and short of “mixing practices”, no one seemed to care.
That all seemed to change drastically during the rise of Miscavige. And it wasn’t that DM couldn’t find a policy somewhere to backup his actions — but the use of judgement, and discernment, that others had earlier been aware of and used, was slowly eroded after DM’s arrival.
Marty, this chapter was by far my favorite in your book. It brought me to tears when I read it last summer, and it brings me to tears as I read it today.
I recall experiencing a very similar process as I slowly disappeared from Scientology. During my last year “in” my then-husband and I were utterly immersed in Scientology culture. That year (circa ’93-’94) I attested to Clear, did KTL/LOC and the L’s. I had always felt conflicted by the bigotry against wogs and the wog world and the dissonance between that and the scn phrase of “granting beingness.” Apparently, granting beingness could only be applied to fellow Scientologists or potential Scientologists.
I’ll spare this blog my escape story, and suffice it to say that my re-integration into the wog world showed me that most wogs are just as capable and effective (and often far more so) as Scientologists at communicating, granting beingness, showing compassion, and working for the betterment of others, all while living happy, productive lives. I observe many people who are certainly more capable than I am at aligning their dynamics and applying ethics to themselves to better their own conditions in life and those of others. Yet, they supposedly do not have the “tech” because they are not trained in Scientology. So-called wogs may even be better at applying what we call Scientology than trained Scientologsts. That does not make them Scientologists nor suggest that they should become Scientologists.
Scientology, sans, the aberrations within the church, is an effective way of improving and living a good life. It is not the only way. Bigotted Scientologists are just as unpleasant as bigots of any other persuasion.
Thank you, Marty for sharing your wisdom in this chapter and in so many ways.
Nancy
My handle should be ingrid smith
http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/9579
41:30 to 43:15 of the above video, is discussion of William James, famous US psychologist’s all time tolerant views on religion, very relevant, I think, to Scientologists.
True that. However, Miscavige was ordered by L. Ron Hubbard in no uncertain terms to remove any vestige of other authorship from all Scientology Orgs and Missions (including, but not limited to, popular authors such as Ruth Minshal and Peter Gillam) and run a strong PR and ethics campaign to stamp out any ‘squirreling’ (very definitively defined as anything not green on white or red on white) in the orbit of orgs and missions. I am chronicling that passing of the torch era now – hopefully can complete it in the not too distant future.
Marty, Mosey,
I love you guys!
The answer to your question is about as clearly articulated as I am capable of doing in What Is Wrong With Scientology?
Interestingly, I heard LRH mention James positively in a lecture from the fifties.
You noted: ” If you mix that model of man with other models you confuse that subject”. Not necessarily. At least in terms of evolving or transcending (as will be covered in subsequent posts). Integral Philosophy and Integral Psychology – as painstakingly researched and outlined by Ken Wilber – makes a very good argument that increasing your horizons by understanding other philosophies and psychologies can take you to heights unenvisioned (or are unattainable) in any given one.
5 Sept 63 Ser fac assessment
It might interest you how an SP comes about.
Man is basically good, but he mocks up evil valences and then gets
into them. You see, he says “The other fellow is bad. The other
fellow is bad. The other fellow is bad,” see? And eventually he got
this pasted-up other fellow, and one day he becomes the other
fellow, see, in a valence shift or a personality – whole complete
package of personality – and there he is. And so he’s now an evil
fellow. He knows how he’s supposed to act: he’s supposed to act like
the other fellow. That’s the switcheroo. That’s how evil comes into being.
(In my opinion,this is what those KSW-Nazis is doing;)
If you were following KSW to the letter, you wouldn’t be anywhere near this blog for the past three years.
This here that you wrote, Martin, is said by L. Ron Hubbard in sum and substance in the Study Tapes:
‘When you become a master of your trade – any trade – and you can truly “play the piano” with it, you have earned the luxury of being able to do things with it that don’t seem “right” at first.’
Yes – I learned this was the right thing to do from my non-Scientologist father while still in elementary school. This is not the subject of this post whatsoever. Criticize my post of today please.
Chris, auditing and Academy training can help with the proclivity to dub in. As to “low toned, reactive case who imagines false data or something’ I did not say that. And that dub in did not come from anything I have written or said. If you read my book – and my posts of late – I think you will find that I do believe that blind obedience to the entire Scientology package actively instills that type of think.
I have some perspective here that I think points out what has changed under DM’s leadership. In ’79 a Sea Org mission came to the Burbank mission where I was on lines. I had been in Scientology a short time and had only done the Communication Course and the HQS Course, along with some auditing. A Sea Org recruiter approached me and did a very hard sell on me joining the Sea Org. The cycle went off and on for several days and at some point I told him that I didn’t have the certainty on Scientology to be willing to make that kind of commitment and that I wasn’t willing to take on a huge free loader debt if I left. He told me that there was no such thing as a free loader debt and that I should be willing to try new things. If I didn’t like it I could leave. Based on that I joined the Sea Org.
Almost immediately I realized something was wrong. First, there was a free loader debt and it was very clear to me that this wasn’t the place to be for someone who was “trying it out”. On the other hand I loved being there. The people were great and the purpose of clearing the planet was exiting. This created a huge problem for me that went on for some time, until I had a cognition. Before starting my first course in Scientology I attended an introductory lecture. One the first things we were shown was the LRH quote, “What is true for you is what you have observed yourself. And when you lose that, you have lost everything.” I realized that I didn’t have an obligation to be there if it wasn’t true for me to the degree that I would commit to a Sea Org contract and I was free to go. I spent 4 weeks getting a replacement and I routed out. I gave everyone a hug or a hand shake good bye when I left and I remained on good terms with the org for years afterwords.
Moving forward to the mid 90’s, I remember talking to Org people on several different occasions about how I routed out and every time they were surprised how smoothly my cycle went. Each time they said that now it’s extremely difficult to route out. This was almost 20 years ago. I know based on people’s write-ups here that thing have gotten far worse.
The reason I went into such detail here is that I want to make the point that before DM, it was my observation that being tolerant was more the norm. I saw lots of other situations back then where an individual did something that could seem counter to the interest of the group and they were treated with respect. I know there are lots of examples of people being mistreated, but that wasn’t my overall experience.
My conclusion after all these years is that the problem with Scientology is the Sea Org. An atmosphere where all dynamics are sacrificed for the “good” of clearing the planet breeds fanaticism. Unless you have someone like LRH there to constantly clean it up you will always fall into the same trap. The only way I could imagine the Sea Org operating sanely over a period of time is if there were something that ensured that to be a sea Org member you must be operating across your dynamics. It’s amazing how doing that gives a person perspective.
One more point. I don’t know exactly what’s meant by Scientology integrating or as I’ve heard others say, merging with other religions. I think Scientology is unique and I don’t want to see it compromised. I also know that the way Marty has disseminated Scientology in recent years is the only way you can ever successfully disseminate no matter what your opinion is of Scientology. Good Manners are a part of good TR’s.
Thanks Marty, thanks for sharing this.
I want to state one thing that is missing from Scientologists and I think it’s missing from the Tech, and LRH did NOT put much attention to it as he wouldn’t expect that people would be soooo low. It’s not a fault of LRH since he operated on Reason and above.
The missing point in the ladder Effort…. Emotion… Reason and Aesthetics, to me is EMOTION.
Compassion is missing from Scientologists and though LRH wrote a lot of good things about Emotion and Compassion Scientologists put their attention to other things on the Tech and have a big gap at this one point: Emotion.
I see now how important it is to NOT move Higher Up if you haven’t attained the lower grades and one lower grade is Emotion and Compassion. Integration will only be part of Scientologists if they start to feel things the way they should feel things.
Emotion is a missing step and is key to moving on to Reason really. Unfortunately (or fortunately) LRH did NOT concentrate on this since this society is totally based as well as indoctrinated into Emotion but Reason is a big missing step above that. LRH did concentrate on Reason (=Tech) and Aesthetics as those points were really missing.
Marty, can you please tell us how do you know for sure that it was really ordered by Hubbard, not fabricated by Miscavige himself? I read he could falsify LRH signature on never existed orders. Is there any way now to separate “the wheat from the chaffs”?
On another note, Marty, you have been very courageous to do what you have done and to have audited Monique and others. This is commendable and the fact that you have found a true meaning in auditing outside the CofS shows your Understanding of the Tech. Thank you for sharing this story from your book with us.
A beautiful essay. I couldn’t agree more with your thesis.
Scientology is extremely valuable for our present and future. Those of us who’ve experienced profound personal wins really do want others to share in its workability. It would be such a shame to lose it for for posterity. Even just the basics are a treasure – thetan/mind/body concept, comm cycle, dianetic concepts, time track, granting beingness, study tech, “auditor + pc is greater than the pc’s bank,” axioms and scales, ARC/CCH/KRC, concepts of perceptics and more – whether these are a synthesis of other knowledge or new or both.
Truth and communication will help the integration process.
Marty,
I haven’t read your book yet but even so It is glaringly obvious to me that you consider the tech to be a working tool. People who really get the tech do not think of it this way or that way but instead use it. Those who do not get it will be looking for opinions and feelings and such. This is very telling about those who originate such questions/insinuations, but I am sure you are the last person I need to point this out to. Those who do not get it will mystify it in more ways than I care to know. Worshiping LRH is also a sign of people not getting his messages. He asked people himself not to do that very clearly. Such worshiping will then lead to mystification of the tech as well as LRH himself. It may seem like an oversimplification to some but I am one who views the tech as a tool. And for those who are new or are under the spell of mystification from others all I can say about the tech is: USE IT OR LOSE IT!
Beautifully put, Mr Rathbun. One of the lasting benefits that I’ve had from the Bridge is a growing appreciation of other people, their abilities and virtues. (I didn’t need to learn intolerance from the Church, having started out this lifetime with a SerFac about being one of the “good” people).
David Mayo once wrote that “Not only individuals have service facsimiles; groups and organizations can, too. In fact, one of the characteristics of any cult or mass movement is that they are ‘service facy’ – the more fanatical, the more ‘service facy’ they are.”
It’s natural that a group that has been subjected to hostility will develop its own SerFacs to defend its sense of rightness. I’ve sometimes got the impression that some people representing the Church don’t want to win – they want to win on their own terms or not at all. For example, they don’t want the public to simply buy auditing when they need it: they insist that the public be promoted to, handled, FSMed, registrared, signed up, routed and followed up.
What you say about Scientology being acceptable and understandable to people when it is not marketed (etc) is very true, I think. “Marketing” is a 20th century American concept that was invented in an age when production was outstripping consumption; it’s not universally relevant to all people and all cultures. For example, the spread of Buddhism into China and the cultural transformation that it caused could be described as marketing only by someone who’d spent their whole life on Madison Avenue.
I got my husband involved in Scientology and made it up the bridge through three L’s and is now on OTlV. He had some ups and downs with non standard people, even got put onto the OT levels with no set ups no OT preps and no solo course check sheet done, not even having his clear date verified, which got cleaned up pretty fast as I was here to notice. There are some “in and out” Scientology hamburger stands traveling around these days. Nevertheless he learned the hard way, and so did my children, what happens, and they are “standard tech” people through learning from experiences with people who are not.
My husband has never been in an Org or Mission or any Scientology culture. He got a friend of his in another country to go into an Org to buy the Dianetics book. Within a year his friend had been regged for 250,000 to the I.A.S. and had done nothing but a comm course. Next we heard, his friend had been convinced to dump his wife and child because the wife was not interested. Yesterday my husband called him and he told my husband he is getting ready to move on the bridge now, and he cannot talk to my husband or he will get in trouble with ethics. Hung up the phone.
My kids have seen it from a whole new angle. Over the years they have seen Scientologists come through our home and several coming right out of the Church, living with us for a while until they got back on their feet. Many of those if coming out of the Sea Org, never co existing with children before or interacting with them. Absolutely blind to them, not even acknowledging their presence in a room. One threw a fit upon seeing them jump up and down on a bed. Many unable to tolerate the sound of children. None of the people coming out of the Sea Org wanting anything to do with them. Some women absolutely re stimulated by them into incidents of parting or losing or abandoning their own children. Scenes with them bursting out and crying. And I have to say, none being kind or interested in them. Although outside of a Scientology circle, others have taken a keen interest in them. Auditors coming and going. And then auditors coming and going for them. They just had a big clean up with a very good tech terminal as they had gotten blown off the bridge. They returned to a VGI’s state and the minute the first one got through grade zero, he walked up to me and said, “Mom, how come all of the Scientologists we meet are so fucked up?” Still, they are asking for more auditing. Even though one of their friends has segregated them away from him, since they found out my kids were involved in Scientology (they are getting hit from the other angle now).
It is very interesting for me to watch people go up the bridge without the social structure that evolved.
In Dianetics one handles ATTITUDES as case. “Pain attitudes sensation and emotion”.
Yet the exclusions, labels, classes, judgments, and all the rest, are really attitudes that segregation evolves around.
The Church of Scientology is emphatic on segregation. Even who sits at which dinner table at the Int Base and who gets the better food. And integration is ENFORCED. As who you sleep with with in what room, who you must liaise with, who you can speak to etc etc. Sea Org members have been forbidden to chat with public for years now, only “official” communication. As if the public were inmates. Adults segregated from children, certain staff segregated from other staff and nobody knowing what the others and doing and thinking, parents not even knowing what their own children are doing and thinking.
Segregation and enforced integration are not wanted and need by most people on Earth. The Church does not look and has not for many decades as to what is wanted and needed by others. It has been in the business of telling it’s customers what THEY want and need.
The problems of the Church are not very complicated to understand.
You REALLY hit the nail on the head in this chapter Marty.
Anyone who was privy to all the traffic from LRH in the late 70’s concerning the formation of WISE, the eradication of “GO influence” and “public on the backs of orgs” knows this came from LRH. I was with LRH as a Messenger on Duty in Training at LaQuinta in 1979 when he dictated orders on this very topic.
Having felt the same when reading the chapter Marty has kindly posted and having struggled with my own father I wonder if I might offer you a suggestion.
When things broke down with my dad to the point of his not answering the phone, not replying to emails, etc I decided to write one last letter.
It was somewhat ironic that it was forgiving my parents for my less than healthy upbringing that led to the church to getting involved and ultimately manipulating my father into his self imposed disconnection. It was a real challenge for me but eventually I reminded myself that although he was guilty he was not to blame and that he still deserved my forgiveness. And my love.
And so I took the time to write one last letter to him. It took me a few weeks to write but given that I was at the point of no return I had nothing to lose.
I made sure that any momentary anger that found it’s way through the keyboard was edited out whilst still saying everything I needed to.
In essence I got to say goodbye to him even if he couldn’t do the same to me. And whilst I do hope that he comes to his senses before he leaves this earth at least I know that he knows I love him. At some point in his life this will mean a great deal to him.
Forgive me if this idea doesn’t appeal to you or offends in anyway. It helped me so I figured it wouldn’t hurt to mention it.
Well, you articulated a view of mine better than I have been able to to date. Thanks.
Thank you Mike, I appreciate your answering.
Thank You for that Marty. It expressed everything I have felt, observed, and concluded. And thanks for allowing someone like myself get to know you better too, via your works. 😀
Great comment Ulf.
Wow!! That was good.
I did two missions into CCLA in the late ’70’s. They were the precursor’s to WISE – one was to find THE person who was capable of splintering off Scientology – meaning who had more influence over the celebs than he did – but it was hidden behind who had more influence than Yvonne.
At the time Martin Samuels was not only the biggest Mission Holder but he had Delphi (education) AND had started an artist management org with Chick Corea clearly following him.
Martin was soon squashed.
This mission I did was done to gather data and reported directly to Alan Buchanen (then Staff Captain) directed by LRH. It was so hush hush it was all conducted I telex lines in code.
Since I knew all the celebs and top finance public in LA I was sent to interview them. I felt like Mati Hari … Wasn’t fun ultimately …
Christine
When I read the book and this chapter again here I was thinking of myself been fanatic about Scientology for a while – at the beginning. The wins from using the tech are so huge, the changes are so obvious and incredible that you have to really hold yourself down not to jump and scream about it trying to get others to experience the wonders. I did not want to try to learn anything else in a field of spiritual self-exploring. It is only now, these recent days – more then 10 years after leaving the Church I dare to explore other ways. Just borrowed from a dear old friend a quoted book of Lao Tsu to read. Only now (!) I feel ready to read it with a peaceful mind, having no reservations or protest thoughts of “betraying” my religion. I realized that I went a long way to find myself here.
When I look back at the people in the Church I see there lots of teenagers joining with no or very little life experience, with no or very little education. They are very prone to accept a sweet pill of lies mixed with real wins they experience using Scientology. Those are who mainly constitute the church now. They are refusing to look and to think for themselves. I don’t see how they can possibly integrate with anything outside the allowed perimeter.
to One of those who see, Very Well Stated Comments and – “FORCE is not the way. You can’t enslave a person to free him.”
and there’s this from LRH; The Enslaver Always Becomes The Enslaved. look at miscavige. Who is more enslaved than he? Now let’s look at his followers (I was one) how enslaved are they? LRH said he never agreed to be a slave. Well maybe that changed toward the end, maybe he was overwhelmed? I don’t know, as I wasn’t there. Maybe there’s a way to survive this planet without becoming enslaved. I personally don’t know that either. I do hope so. Maybe we are all enslaved to some degree. He also said, It requires your consent to be the effect. this is true for me. I consented for about the last 15 + years of not really having what Scientology was for me in the beginning. Ignorance is enslaving. EG, I was ignorant of miscavige being a true blue 2.5% er until 3 months ago. Sadly the ones still IN remain ignorant of this fact and are still consenting to the enslavement. Maybe I was lucky but I became less and less consenting over the last 5 years (I’m slow) until finally I was able to disagree to my enslavement and wake up (demand for improvement) and BTW Marty’ Blog and other’s really helped me in that process. But LRH helped me most of all with The Tech. The Tech I applied to Undo what I had up to that point consented to. I also believe that some come OUT At Cause and Too Many come OUT at Effect, and are still broken pieces in the game of life as a result. I just hope that these folks can eventually de-stimulate (Auditing and Training is the answer) and get back at Cause and back in the Game.
Heck, maybe the jokes on us and LRH checked out long before 86 and that wasn’t even LRH toward the end. I don’t know that, does anyone? Really Know That? I don’t see him around anywhere now. Do you? Maybe he found a better game to play – maybe a change of postulate. Maybe he’s re-grouping. maybe he’ll show up one day with better answers. I do know this: as crazy as this all became, it’s still life, its still a game and even though there have been rough times for me, I don’t regret becoming a Scientologist and NO ONE can take away my Wins and Abilities Gained as A RESULT. And I’m pretty sure that most Scientologist here DO NOT regret Becoming Scientologist.
My 3 cents, Steve Poore
Such as throw out the PL LRH ordered be put at the beginning of every course in Scientology?
You are making my case with every comment.
Marty,
Whether it’s delusional on my part or LRH’s, I hearken back to the first time I read “Hymn of Asia”. It made sense then. it makes sense now.
We do exist in a spiritual realm, irregardless of our opinions and considerations.
It’s been my life-long fervent hope that a great awakening would occur.
I think we’re there. However, there will be ‘pain’.
Your viewpoint and the outpouring of all the others here has been not only been significant, but has been monumental towards the inevitable endgame. So here we go. Some of us will only be capable of saying, “Oh Shit!”
The rest will say, “Oh My!!!”
Thanks again for all you do and have done. I mean it.
Chrismann9. Hey, if all this wasn’t aired out here it would be aired out and is on other blogs. Let the airing continue and those who can’t handle the air can leave the kitchen and attempt to find more agreeable air in someone else’s kitchen. At least on this blog, there are many who do know what the air is made of.
First Rule, “USE OR LOSE IT.” You nailed that one!
I have a hunch that the anticipated third book will answer just about every origination on this matter and those such as in Alanzo’s post over the last few weeks. Any prediction on if/when it may materialise?
Marty, thanx for this wonderful post. I think that the highest and best legacy for the genius of LRH on humanity may be in the true Scientology application as philosophy. A philosophy compatible with the spiritual reality of any people. This perspective is consistant with LRH’s postulation that the quest for every person is to define and find what is truth for them. I believe the tech can be applied to all of humanity without demanding that humanity abandon every other thought, track or bridge that may bring truth to them. Viewed as this paradigm, the global acceptance and reach of Scientology could be sublime! Is my vision pragmatic? If my vision is in error please illuminate!
So did you. You just made me realize that the simple fact of not considering what is wanted and needed alone is going to make them obsolete very fast.
I believe that the strength of LRH’s hostility toward psychiatry parallels the intensity of their efforts to destroy would-be competitors/dissenters and the ongoing revelation of the depth of extreme and vicious experimental programs and political agendas.
Here’s some samples he was confronting, as documented in the book “Secret, Don’t Tell — The Encyclopedia of Hypnotism” by Carla Emery
https://sites.google.com/site/mcrais/emery
“…the day has come when we can combine sensory deprivation with drugs, hypnosis and astute manipulation of rewards and punishment to gain almost absolute control over an individual’s behavior…a very rapid and highly effective type of positive brainwashing that would allow us to make dramatic changes in a person’s behavior and personality…[in] a few months—or perhaps even less than that…
“The techniques of behavioral control make even the hydrogen bomb look like a child’s toy, and, of course, they can be used for good or evil. But we can no more prevent the development of this new psychological methodology than we could have prevented the development of atomic energy…
– McConnell, Psychology Today, April 1970
“When James V. McConnell announced the new method of positive brainwashing in the article quoted above, he was a famous Michigan behaviorist. In the early 1970s, he trained flatworms by electric shocks to prefer the lighted tunnel to the dark one. He edited and published both The Journal of Biological Psychology and the Worm Runner’s Digest, a radical behaviorist periodical. If anybody outside the Company knew what happened when you put all the MKULTRA research together and applied it with the goal of personality restructuring to a single subject, it would be McConnell. In that article, he urged readers to adopt
“…a revolutionary viewpoint toward society and its problems. Today’s behavioral psychologists are the architects and engineers of the Brave New World… (Ibid., p. 74)
“He suggested temporary incarceration for antisocial persons while they were being “cured” by means of this new technology. The subject would be housed in a “rehabilitation center” while experts “restructure his entire personality.” McConnell argued:
“No one owns his own personality. Your ego, or individuality, was forced on you by your genetic constitution and by the society into which you were born. You had no say about what kind of personality you acquired, and there’s no reason to believe you should have the right to refuse to acquire a new personality if your old one is antisocial… (Ibid.)”
I would have to agree with LRH’s vehement attacks on such techniques and agendas. I did. And I got out and collected petitions and marched in protests. And it did help, tremendously. But that was in the 1970s.
I think what has to be confronted and understood is that as much as individual psychologists and psychiatrists may not reflect the vicious intent expressed above, they come to be represented legally, organizationally and politically by a GROUP MENTALITY. It really isn’t much different than tarring and feathering individual Scientologists along with the perpetrators of violence in the Church of Scientology who are represented legally, organizationally and politically by the Church.
I believe that the fatally flawed technology that was adopted was the PR/Propaganda techniques derived by the nephew of Sigmund Freud, Edward Bernays, and I believe that this “technology” is largely responsible for the deaths of millions of people in the 20th century and the continual onslaught against civil liberty & rights in the name of mental health.
The other fatally flawed technology is to be found in government legislative processes that are manipulated by the methods created and propagated by Bernays and his ilk, including vested interest group lobbying, celebrity positioning, stereotyping, polling, and the many methods used to foster a dangerous environment for the purpose of forwarding the interests of an industry and destroying all competitors reputations, making them utterly unacceptable in society including baby, bathwater and tub.
The red alert state of LRH begins in the 1950s, escalating to a peak in 1978 when the Los Angeles Churches were raided. I don’t know if the red alert is over even now, for the AMA and APA still stand vigilant against anyone who dares to tread in what they have created legally as their turf.
Surely there is a way to address this kind of insanity, but what it is I do not personally know. What I do know is that the Bernays PR/Propaganda craziness has resulted in tremendous harm.
Right now, I am more hopeful than I have ever been in the last 35 years as I visit all kinds of websites and find that the bulk of the people who comment and write are kind, do wish others well, and are seeking good ways of addressing this plague upon mankind, regardless of their profession, ethnicity or belief systems.
I have been watching the number of signatures to end the violence against women in India for about a week — you can see the names and countries as they add their signatures. They come from all over the world, people who care, people who want to see solutions implemented that will foster a kinder and more compassionate world, over a million have signed. I cannot begin to express my relief and gratitude to see this amazing and wonderful show of love for mankind.
And this is what I see on Marty’s blog, an effort to move on up a little bit higher. We have friends, friends all over the world, and it is most of the population, thank God.
I grieve for the horror and pain that LRH must have felt as he turned his humanitarian efforts into a war machine against vested interests that sought to disenfranchise and brutalize in the name of mental health. That forced him to enforce standards and regulations so there would be no chinks in the armor that vicious attorneys could use to destroy an entire group of people’s bonafide beneficial efforts. Wherever he is, I wish him well. It was an ugly fight, the kind that destroys the good along with the bad and shatters those who fight. It is my sincere hope that out these ashes, there can be a learning and intelligent analysis that can result in finding good ways of bringing forward the best of what we have learned and discarding the worst that developed along the way.
bkelly
Agreed. I do not think you are going to find very many Scientologists that feel the procedures of Scientology should be watered down to become more acceptable. As you point out, “Ultimately we need to stick with what is true and work with that.”
What may need some work with some is realizing the lie behind the consideration that Scientology technologies are the only workable system in this or any universe. By holding that singular, exclusionist view, one puts one’s future expansion at serious risk.
Eric S
Scott, well stated. I agree! and thumbs up.
Mike, Great Comment! – and this is what will ultimately bring them to an end.
Thanks, Chris. It is comforting to hear from someone else who has gone through this. You are the first one I have encountered, so I really appreciate you reaching out. Thanks, also, for your suggestion. I have taken it to heart. I am not quite to the point of forgiveness in my process, yet, but your story has gotten me a step closer, I think. I’d love to continue this conversation off this blog, if you were so inclined. However, I would completely understand if you’d rather not.
Anyway, thank you again. 🙂
Thanks for that additional data Marty. I always thought the removal of the other books from the bookstore was such a mistake and shame. My guess is that LRH was trying to clean-up the GO debacle, and thought that keeping it “pure LRH” would help ensure that.
The whole thing felt like a short-term emergency action, but then became the New Order within a few years … instead of the reigns being loosened once the emergency was over.
I have had this gut feeling for sometime that Mosey was way too spectacular for you — and I mean that as a compliment to both of you. The point being that we all deserve to find our own way to whatever and whoever it is that allows us to become who we truly are. Great post Marty
Marty, I highly value what you have to say and check in nearly every day.
My decompression will seem to me to be about over, then I discover other areas and long-held considerations that need my closer examination.
Once I got over the sacred cow of daring to question scientology, or LRH, things got simpler. I read other things and seek other points of view, without throwing out things I have found to be useful or true.
I value and use the beneficial parts of scientology that I have learned, and discard the cultish stuff. Like anything, it takes practice but one can get better and better at it. After a while, one can just see the difference.
Marty, some of my comments have been rude. I did however had some questions and disagreements I thought you might address. I actually did not want to write anything for a couple days now but I thought I would just communicate it anyway and see what happened. You really didnt respond to any of it, you just insulted me and gave no-answers. You havent said enough for me to even guess what “case” you are making.
KSW is sort of hammered into your head as a Scientologist. I dont even know how many times I’ve studied it, but at some point it did become very real to me and I believe I fully duplicated it. I do still hold that it is an important writing. My view is much like Scott Campbells above. What I have done so far in Scientology has been a very good thing and I just dont want it messed up. I dont really trust you, or anyone to tell me what bits are wrong or how it should be. I just want it as close as possible to how it was intended and written.
As a non scientologist could someone answer a question for me please.
inb4 OSA
inb4 trying to derail thread
I was in a religous book store and could not help notice that not only did they sell bibles but there were at least 100 other books on different peoples interpritations on it.Yet the only books on scientology i can find are either written by lrh or critics of scientology.
Would a high level OT in good standing be able to write a book about his experiences what worked,what didnt etc and if not why?
Thankyou
Yeah, it does seem to me that the CoS might have risen up to that Condition (Non-E) at some point — needing to find out what is needed and wanted — and then never actually completed the steps.
Marty you said: “Feel free to sound off on what is wrong with this, what is unworkable about this, where I was inaccurate or unfair, why it ought not be heeded, or whatever else you want to say about it (within the bounds, or course, of this blog’s moderation policy).”
I am not trying to be Chris’s defender. I don’t really care for the KSW reference all that much. It does seem though, that Chris is doing what you invited him to do and then you shoot him down for doing it. It doesn’t make much sense to me.
Excellent observations, Maria, on how PR — so antipathetic to so much of the core of Scientology — became seen as a necessary “weapon” to fight fire with fire. And now has ultimately backfired on itself, by overzealous and fanatical use.
Marty, That is not true for me at least. It was KSW that caused me to disagree with the way the Church was being run, and ultimately lead me to this blog.
I realize that KSW policy can be used by the “not-so-bright” to stop others; however, that was not LRH’s purpose for writing it. You may want to clarify this point a little further.
So, the power of scientology, its reported (I rely on anecdoetes I’ve read here to support this assumption) goodness and its effectiveness lie wholly in the hands of the person delivering it? That in itself is a scary thought; yet (although its never going to affect me personally) that concept does render a small amount of hope to the subject and those who wish to use it in their life.
The suggestion, I think, is not to integrate with other religions, but with society at large.
Just like how the Buddha said: Be the Buddha, in this case Be the LRH 🙂
Ron spoke favorably of William James several times. Here are a few examples:
From: “Study of the Particle (Cont’d)”, (29 October 1953, 1st ACC Lectures):
“For instance, I wouldn’t even stoop to kid any one psychologist, except William James. And he actually is quite interesting. They call psychology a science; it would be a science if William James had been able to codify it for communication. Because as far as I can find out, he’s the only source for modern psychology. He wrote a book, very nice book. Did you ever see his book – 1898, I think it is, something like that. Very nice little book. If somebody had read that they would have been in good shape, too.”
From: “Lack of Space”, (1 December 1953):
“The best and most able work on psychology, I think, was written by William James, and I don’t think it’s been improved upon.”
From: “Be, Do, Have Straightwire”, (4 May 1954):
“Even William James remarks on this factor that time and space are mental conditions and problems. Every psychologist of note anywhere along the line has remarked upon this factor …”
Marty
Yes, that is a very fine chapter indeed.
Here is a little piece of something I came up with.
At the point where I got a full conceptual understanding of the definition of responsibility (per “Responsibility, Definition of”) I felt incredibly empowered. There was no “shame, blame, or regret”, just an incredible feeling of self determined control.
You see, I realized that my future was entirely up to me. I didn’t have to answer to anybody.
I realized that if I was going to create my dynamics in the fashion that I conceive as optimum, I would have to truly create them myself, and take full responsibility for their creation. It does not matter what fate, or politics, or good fortune, or whatever, is thrown at me, (or that I create), It is still entirely up to me whether I achieve my goals for the dynamics or not. One thing that I looked at here was that , even if Scientology became unavailable for whatever reason, I am not willing to allow that to stop me. It is still my goal to obtain towards optimum across the dynamics, and it is me alone who is responsible to see that I achieve this goal.
And one successful policy is to align myself with other entities and dynamics that I find assist me in this adventure and that I hopefully can somehow assist with theirs…
And so you find me here…
And an adventure it certainly is…
Thank you all.
Eric S
How is Marty messing it up? You have the LRH writings. Marty hasn’t changed them. What exactly is your beef here? That he has an opinion?
Hey 4chan,
These days, no the CoS would not allow it. In the 50s, 60s and 70s, though, it was pretty common. Look for books on ebay, amazon, etc. by:
Ruth Minshull,
Peter Gillham,
Denver Frater,
Omar Garrison,
Reg Sharpe,
Trevor Meldal-Johnson,
… and a few others.
Minshull, Gillham and Garrison were big through the 70s especially.
Dude. Go back and read Marty’s original post here. After you have done that, read it again. It is the very definition of what “confront” means. The case he is making is obvious. You just need to confront it.
Thanks for the blog communication decorum critique. Please sound off on what is wrong with the post and chapter…anything about it that doesn’t add up for you? I’m looking for some intelligent discussion.
I guess only the elite need reply.
Marty, I think you are awesome!
My Scientology story is old and stale. I was devout, An early koolaid drinker (early by today’s standard, in 79, out 86). I am not sure how I feel about Scientology, or LRH. It changes minute by day.
I appreciate your direction. And I want to tell you that you actually had a life changing effect on me. You posted a Buddha quote, and I am going to paraphrase but put it in quotes, so forgive me for that ” Holding on to anger is like taking poison and expecting it to kill the other guy”
I follow you every day, although I no longer “Believe”. But thank you for that!
I realized that I had been holding on to this grudge. It seemed very important. When you posted that quote I realized that I had been missing out on a very important person, because I was hanging onto anger. We have reunited, not that we agree, but I missed her. Thank youl
It just takes me back to those old days, when I thought it was all about granting beingness. No judgement. What the hell went wrong?
Chris
I think I am getting where you are coming from here. You seem to (or at least , seem to have) been visiting this blog for data on what is going on in the Corporate church of Scientology, and how we got into the state it is in, and perhaps what is being done about it. And it has delivered that in spades.
For me though, I was interested in that, for a time, because there was a whole lot of eye opening data being presented, but what has always interested me more is broadening my understanding of the philosophy through open discussion of peoples views on various topics. I use this forum as an invaluable source of multiple viewpoints that I can use to create much broader evaluations of the use and value of the technologies involved.
I see this blog of Marty’s as a cornerstone in the creation of a far richer and deeper understanding of Scientology, and for those who are new to the subject, an amazing look at some of its real core concepts from multiple and varied viewpoints. These things I feel will be very valuable in helping to ensure that the technologies of Scientology are well understood, and well used in the future.
A dynamic of intelligent, reasoning, thoughtful, compassionate, people has formed around this venue, and I value it highly.
I believe it is already too late to revive the church. It is in its death throes. The most effective use of our resources in dealing with the church, at this time I believe, is one of “damage control”. It is a vital activity.
To me, these are the key values of this blog.
In my view, taking down the corporate church, or David Miscavige, is a dead end activity. There is no future in it.
On the other hand, the future of Scientology, the philosophy and technologies, is looking very bright indeed, and I credit much of that to what happens right here on his blog.
You have contributed to this incredible adventure. I hope that you will continue to do so.
Eric S
Marty, wouldn’t it be cool if we had a means to link quotes and references to the actual documents we refer to in blog posts? I have none of my materials from my SCN years so have to rely on my faulty memory, suspect internet search results, and the recollections of others to remind me of the materials I studied some 20 years ago.
Ah me, …. listen to how I so easily request a boatload of work from those already dedicated and overworked….
Projection.
Such a simple word.
You hit the nail on the head brother.
Dude, if you were applying KSW as written to the letter, you would never go within 100 feet of anyone the COS labelled labelled an SP, of anyone delivering auditing without the approval of the COS, or anyone who wrote a book critical of the almighty COB, you would never assist in any way someone whose been critical of the COS. From the COS viewpoint, those are all gross violations of 7, 8, 9 and 10. KSW, if taken truly literally (which is required these days) is an “ends-justifies-the-means” treatise, and is used as a stick or a clib more than anything else.
Sure… Marty has my details… if he is happy to pass them on then I’m happy for him to do so…
Its about mixing practices, particularly mixing processes. This is the reason for the policy: when someone is doing their Objectives, they should stop meditating during that period, while Scientology processes are being used for a Case action.
Outside of that, have at it! I don’t think LRH ever wanted anyone to reduce the amount of interaction they had with the world – just that there were policies to prevent the mixing of different ideologies/practices while one is attempting to apply Scientology.
I know from first-hand experience as an Auditor just how messed up things can get when you take a PC into session to do something, such as any of the Grades for example, and they mix it with other practices. It can really, really destroy the gains made in session when someone meditates out of session, for example – this can be a very difficult mess for an Auditor to repair.
So I think the policy of Other-practices not being mixed with Scientology is an important one, technically. But for sure it has been abused to create an interolance and hatred of others these days, alas.
Just a bit of a sound off…
Anyone who has left the COS simply to join another group with which to align one’s own personal stable data is going to have trouble. Trouble in life, trouble in the new group, etc.
What is true for one is supposed to be what’s true for one’s self. Not simply what one can get agreement on.
SCN is true to degree that it works. Other Sciences are true to degree that they work. Other religions are true for others to the degree that they help others.
KSW, if understood CONCEPTULLY by COS members – in my opinion – would be applied this way “Okay, we agree that there is some other workable tech out there, but in the spirit of protecting against dilution of the religion AS WRITTEN, we’re just going to stick with this, and never combine or confuse…”
But instead it’s used literally and is more like “No one else has any other answers. If you look elsewhere you are a heretic. If you imply there are answers elsewhere you are a splinter group. If you think an answer to life came from anyone other than LRH you are ‘other practicy’ ”
In my opinion, that fact that COS demands that so much be seen only in black and white, when we all studied early in SCN that there can only be shades of grey, is part of what is wrong with the COS.
SCN is supposed to make people more able to personally evaluate data and be one’s own maker. Part of what is wrong with the COS is how heavily it relies on and instills and actually requires the very “group think” that Dianetics and SCN was supposed to make unnecessary.
I have read every word of every post on this blog since the beginning of it, as well as every word of Marty’s books. I find the OPINIONS and OBSERVATIONS of someone who has had his type of first-hand experiences, extremely helpful to my own understanding of things I haven’t been able to personally observe or experience.
I happen to find it slightly embarrassing when I see comments that seem to indicate the person making the comment feels they have left one group with one leader simply to join another group with another leader, when from everything I’ve read and seen and experienced, that is not what independent Scientology is about.
Last time I checked, Marty hadn’t started an org. He is simply the most high-profile member of a group of people who believe SCN is best-applied in the hands of the people, outside of the control of the corrupt monopoly that now seeks to use SCN as a control tool.
In Marty’s latest book, the section about the Protestant Reformation really struck home for me. Knowing that those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, I was embarrassed that I hadn’t really known about this part of history and couldn’t help but think how many SCN’s – if they studied about this part of history would think “Oh shit, I think we’ve been making a mistake…”
So anyway, to see that there are some folks who have left the corporate COS, but still feel there are ideas that should not be expressed or truths that should not be explored, I would venture to say that those people MIGHT be missing the point of independent Scientology. Just a thought.
Some people feel It’s okay to throw the COS out the window but not okay to examine any shortcomings of LRH? Where’s the next Kool-Aid station?
After everything that’s gone wrong in the Church, there’s no value examining EXACTLY how that occurred and what role LRH played in it? That’s too uncomfortable for some?
The independent movement isnt supposed to be the 2nd Church of LRH. The COS wasn’t even supposed to become that. It only became that partly in an effort to contol people.
If one is going to participate in the “protestant” reformation of SCN, it is my personal belief that there is value in examining the “when, how and who” of how the COS became the control tool that it is today.
I feel that anyone who is offended by an effort to look at what role LRH played in that is still dramatizing the group-think instilled in the COS. Just my thoughts.
It doesn’t make one LESS of an advocate of LRH’s tech to make such an examination.
There are various means by which Scientology can be described.
We can use plain old English, or we could dive deep into the Tech Dictionary, have a common vernacular derived from a mutual understanding of a technology, the mechanisms by which it is applied, and the means of measuring its successes, and speak hard-core PC-folder’ese.
LRH described the phenomenon whereby those cultures which use Scientology language has to recognize that these various ‘language zones’ are based on Understanding. There are a few levels of the understanding of Scientology, based directly on the actual application of the word sets, which can be maintained by those wishing to discuss the subject, and it really does go from plain old English, to deep Technical Language.
Scientology, like many other sciences, has developed its own vernacular and nomenclature as a matter of necessity. There are as many MU’s to be had in a Geologists Dictionary as there are in the Tech dictionary, and in many cases with other subject, many more yet undefined words to be discovered.
In Scientology, the use of language is a very important topic, which a student of the subject will know full well is wraught with danger, adventure, and discovery.
Those who call Scientology out as brainwashing, are ignoring their own peril at fate. Scientology is not brainwashing; it is brainUSING, because a true student of the subject will indeed have established a credible force of understanding of pretty much any subject a Human being can be, and is, willing to talk about.
As a Scientologist, I find the reasoning that discrimination is a calculated inclusion of the topic to be a serious out-Indicator, because you don’t have to get far in Scientology, at all, before you’re supposed to have the Understanding that in fact discrimination of all forms is intolerable, and frankly is exactly the problem we are supposed to be Auditing out, as a group.
Theta, and Operating Theta, has yet to full describe itself as a functioning force of will in the current, present moment in Time, in the zeitgeist of Now, if you will, but when it does .. “come online” .. so to speak, the actual group of OT’s that have been made will, hopefully, COMMUNICATE, instead of calling everyone Wogs, DB’s, and so on ..
The careful study of the materials, in true honesty, demonstrates a very keen and avid desire to *prevent* discrimination, as a dramatization by the PC, from blowing. The way out is indeed the way through. Trained Auditors, attend to the PC.
I love it wendy !
I’m not sure I’m clear on much, if there is a group within which back-channel natter is being spread, well that sounds great – that there is a group, I mean, a sphere where such events can occur. I personally avoid natter among closer circles, as much as possible, and if there is something I’ve said publicly that can be construed as negative criticism, I’d hope that doesn’t have a back-channel taste to it, at least.
But I’d also hope there’d be some in the crowd who recognize second phenomenon, when they see it, and stop the buck-passing. No?
It is a Basic tenet, isn’t it, to end third party behavior, realize the source of the problem (MU) and get it resolved? Hate starts with an MU. Second phenomenon is real, people. Got MU’s on it?
And so the difficult thing about getting out and integrated as an Independent Scientologist is that, right now, you will incur lot of hate and disgust. So many people have MU’s on Xenu, and the RPF, and so on and on .. well of course this is tiring to an independent. For me the answer to the Church problem is: go ask the Church, otherwise .. TITS, and so on .. if you want MU’s, lets clear a few. EOS.
I’m pretty sure there are some operating thetans out there in the broader society, independently integrating, and having a wonderful time. Wouldn’t it be a lovely surprise to discover a third and second SO unit, free from all the distractions of the world, making proper OT’s in loads and plenty ..
Marty and others who make meaningful contributions to this blog: The reason I spent approximately 200 hours researching all that was available on the internet, even after I had decided to resign from The Church, was to be able to in a coherent way, write my resignation letter in an effort to Help My Friends still stuck in what has become a dangerous Cult we know as The Church of Scientology.
Without Marty, Mike R, Steve H, Karen #1, Haydn and many others (who I consider) actual Scientologist, writing and speaking out before me, there never would have been 200 hours of available, useful, worthwhile data to study. And as a Huge Side Benefit for me personally, I discovered in my research, that Standard Tech Scientology Services were available Outside the Walls of CoS.
After I hit the send button on my announcement, I still continued to feel compelled to do whatever else I could do. One thing that has occurred is the ensuing days since my resignation hit the internet, and then went viral, is that I have been able to help about 3 dozen of those aforementioned friends. I also believe it’s helped many more who are under the radar, as there have been over 17,000 hits on one of Steve’s Sites alone. No one other than a Scientologist would be reading that letter, as its too technical for others not trained in Scn – It just wasn’t written for them.
When I wrote the letter, was I looking to expose Miscavige? Sure but only in the broader context of helping my friends understand and spot The Why and The Who. Was I interested in bringing down Miscavige? Sure, but this was and still isn’t my main purpose, again, it’s to Help my Friends. Who are my friends? Anyone who applies Scientology to their Dynamics to Help themselves but mostly to Help others. Whether they want to admit they are Scientologist or not is really not important in the scheme of things.
Maybe I’m wrong, (I can’t speak for him) but I get that Marty’s purpose and for this site is the same as my purpose for being here – the same as all who make meaningful contributions here.
Bashing LRH, Scientology, The Tech may resonate for some who follow and post on this blog. Hey, if that HELPS others stay here and get more understanding, Fine. I do believe a better answer is for those so inclined, to locate a good Auditor and as-is your Bypassed Charge in session, or study more LRH Tech and Policy – 50% of the gain.
And if this bashing turns some off and away from contributing to this Blog, then that is really too bad, as you may be missing opportunities to help others.
Ask yourself this: how many Thousands of Scientologist across the planet benefit directly and indirectly from your contributions here?
Those looking for a nice safe space with no HE&R, no bashing, no conflict, then I say by all means, start you own blog or find one that is all sweetness and light. But Really, how many of your friends are you going to truly help?
My recommendation with LRH’s help: Let’s not waste time on petty ARC Breaks, let’s all “Flourish and Prosper” “There is no more deadly way to get even with a suppressive or an antagonistic person or a downgrading society than by flourishing and prospering. All a suppressive person or society is trying to do is prevent one from flourishing and prospering.”
For those posting on this blog who want to argue and fight with others here of goodwill, let’s try to have tolerance for a broader reality, let’s try to help them understand, But if they then demonstrate an unwillingness to look, to learn, to change, to be helped, IGNORE THEM.
Let’s continue to support Marty, Mike and others in exposing Miscavige and his Cult, but let’s not “get stuck in on them.”
For those “under the radar” “one cannot simply vanish in life, one cannot just become a nothingness. And the wrong way to handle suppression is to be low key and hope one isn’t noticed. This is simply agreement with the suppressive person or society.
I realize that there are many of you who may have some legitimate reasons while navigating through family connections. Should you get yourself more Hatted on how to handle those situations? Others: should you grow a set, raise your confront and communicate more to your family and friends? Who are your Real Friends?
And for all of us: “Attempts at suppression are totally defeated in the long run simply by flourishing and prospering.”
“So there is the ultimate victory over any suppressive group or society. Not to do them in – as they are very busy doing themselves in…”
And in your flourishing and prospering, don’t forget to Help Your Friends.
Marty and others who make meaningful contributions to this blog: The reason I spent approximately 200 hours researching all that was available on the internet, even after I had decided to resign from The Church, was to be able to in a coherent way, write my resignation letter in an effort to Help My Friends still stuck in what has become a dangerous Cult we know as The Church of Scientology.
Without Marty, Mike R, Steve H, Karen #1, Haydn and many others (who I consider) actual Scientologist, writing and speaking out before me, there never would have been 200 hours of available, useful, worthwhile data to study. And as a Huge Side Benefit for me personally, I discovered in my research, that Standard Tech Scientology Services were available Outside the Walls of CoS.
After I hit the send button on my announcement, I still continued to feel compelled to do whatever else I could do. One thing that has occurred is the ensuing days since my resignation hit the internet, and then went viral, is that I have been able to help about 3 dozen of those aforementioned friends. I also believe it’s helped many more who are under the radar, as there have been over 17,000 hits on one of Steve’s Sites alone. No one other than a Scientologist would be reading that letter, as its too technical for others not trained in Scn – It just wasn’t written for them.
When I wrote the letter, was I looking to expose Miscavige? Sure but only in the broader context of helping my friends understand and spot The Why and The Who. Was I interested in bringing down Miscavige? Sure, but this was and still isn’t my main purpose, again, it’s to Help my Friends. Who are my friends? Anyone who applies Scientology to their Dynamics to Help themselves but mostly to Help others. Whether they want to admit they are Scientologist or not is really not important in the scheme of things.
Maybe I’m wrong, (I can’t speak for him) but I get that Marty’s purpose and for this site is the same as my purpose for being here – the same as all who make meaningful contributions here.
Bashing LRH, Scientology, The Tech may resonate for some who follow and post on this blog. Hey, if that HELPS others stay here and get more understanding, Fine. I do believe a better answer is for those so inclined, to locate a good Auditor and as-is your Bypassed Charge in session, or study more LRH Tech and Policy – 50% of the gain.
And if this bashing turns some off and away from contributing to this Blog, then that is really too bad, as you may be missing opportunities to help others.
Ask yourself this: how many Thousands of Scientologist across the planet benefit directly and indirectly from your contributions here?
Those looking for a nice safe space with no HE&R, no bashing, no conflict, then I say by all means, start you own blog or find one that is all sweetness and light. But Really, how many of your friends are you going to truly help?
My recommendation with LRH’s help: Let’s not waste time on petty ARC Breaks, let’s all “Flourish and Prosper” “There is no more deadly way to get even with a suppressive or an antagonistic person or a downgrading society than by flourishing and prospering. All a suppressive person or society is trying to do is prevent one from flourishing and prospering.”
For those posting on this blog who want to argue and fight with others here of goodwill, let’s try to have tolerance for a broader reality, let’s try to help them understand, But if they then demonstrate an unwillingness to look, to learn, to change, to be helped, IGNORE THEM.
Let’s continue to support Marty, Mike and others in exposing Miscavige and his Cult, but let’s not “get stuck in on them.”
For those “under the radar” “one cannot simply vanish in life, one cannot just become a nothingness. And the wrong way to handle suppression is to be low key and hope one isn’t noticed. This is simply agreement with the suppressive person or society.
I realize that there are many of you who may have some legitimate reasons while navigating through family connections. Should you get yourself more Hatted on how to handle those situations? Others: should you grow a set, raise your confront and communicate more to your family and friends? Who are your Real Friends?
And for all of us: “Attempts at suppression are totally defeated in the long run simply by flourishing and prospering.”
“So there is the ultimate victory over any suppressive group or society. Not to do them in – as they are very busy doing themselves in…”
And in your flourishing and prospering, don’t forget to Help Your Friends.
Marty and others who make meaningful contributions to this blog: The reason I spent approximately 200 hours researching all that was available on the internet, even after I had decided to resign from The Church, was to be able to in a coherent way, write my resignation letter in an effort to Help My Friends still stuck in what has become a dangerous Cult we know as The Church of Scientology.
Without Marty, Mike R, Steve H, Karen #1, Haydn and many others (who I consider) actual Scientologist, writing and speaking out before me, there never would have been 200 hours of available, useful, worthwhile data to study. And as a Huge Side Benefit for me personally, I discovered in my research, that Standard Tech Scientology Services were available Outside the Walls of CoS.
After I hit the send button on my announcement, I still continued to feel compelled to do whatever else I could do. One thing that has occurred is the ensuing days since my resignation hit the internet, and then went viral, is that I have been able to help about 3 dozen of those aforementioned friends. I also believe it’s helped many more who are under the radar, as there have been over 17,000 hits on one of Steve’s Sites alone. No one other than a Scientologist would be reading that letter, as its too technical for others not trained in Scn – It just wasn’t written for them.
When I wrote the letter, was I looking to expose Miscavige? Sure but only in the broader context of helping my friends understand and spot The Why and The Who. Was I interested in bringing down Miscavige? Sure, but this was and still isn’t my main purpose, again, it’s to Help my Friends. Who are my friends? Anyone who applies Scientology to their Dynamics to Help themselves but mostly to Help others. Whether they want to admit they are Scientologist or not is really not important in the scheme of things.
Maybe I’m wrong, (I can’t speak for him) but I get that Marty’s purpose and for this site is the same as my purpose for being here – the same as all who make meaningful contributions here.
Bashing LRH, Scientology, The Tech may resonate for some who follow and post on this blog. Hey, if that HELPS others stay here and get more understanding, Fine. I do believe a better answer is for those so inclined, to locate a good Auditor and as-is your Bypassed Charge in session, or study more LRH Tech and Policy – 50% of the gain.
And if this bashing turns some off and away from contributing to this Blog, then that is really too bad, as you may be missing opportunities to help others.
Ask yourself this: how many Thousands of Scientologist across the planet benefit directly and indirectly from your contributions here?
Those looking for a nice safe space with no HE&R, no bashing, no conflict, then I say by all means, start you own blog or find one that is all sweetness and light. But Really, how many of your friends are you going to truly help?
My recommendation with LRH’s help: Let’s not waste time on petty ARC Breaks, let’s all “Flourish and Prosper” “There is no more deadly way to get even with a suppressive or an antagonistic person or a downgrading society than by flourishing and prospering. All a suppressive person or society is trying to do is prevent one from flourishing and prospering.”
For those posting on this blog who want to argue and fight with others here of goodwill, let’s try to have tolerance for a broader reality, let’s try to help them understand, But if they then demonstrate an unwillingness to look, to learn, to change, to be helped, IGNORE THEM.
Let’s continue to support Marty, Mike and others in exposing Miscavige and his Cult, but let’s not “get stuck in on them.”
For those “under the radar” “one cannot simply vanish in life, one cannot just become a nothingness. And the wrong way to handle suppression is to be low key and hope one isn’t noticed. This is simply agreement with the suppressive person or society.
I realize that there are many of you who may have some legitimate reasons while navigating through family connections. Should you get yourself more Hatted on how to handle those situations? Others: should you grow a set, raise your confront and communicate more to your family and friends? Who are your Real Friends?
And for all of us: “Attempts at suppression are totally defeated in the long run simply by flourishing and prospering.”
“So there is the ultimate victory over any suppressive group or society. Not to do them in – as they are very busy doing themselves in…”
And in your flourishing and prospering, don’t forget to Help Your Friends.
“You know the answers to life and the rightnesses of life are apparently so powerful that they assert themselves and the wrongnesses of life fold up. Maintaining a wrongness is difficult.
Help is evidently so deeply ingrained in every being that only when it folds up and you show the individual conclusively or he has been shown that he is not helping anybody does he fold up as a being. Up to that time, he’ll function. It’s when he loses that last one that he’s gone.
And anybody who is severely neurotic or insane or extremely ill or anything of that character has had that happen to him. He has had it demonstrated to him conclusively that he can’t help anything or anybody. Now he realizes he is so dangerous that he can never pay back anything that he owes society. He can never pay any debt, he can never make it right, he can never do something to equalize all the bad things he’s done and so forth. In other words, this man cannot pay off. He can no longer walk in the sun because he can never be of any help to anybody. When he gets into that condition, he’s gone.
Well, oddly enough, if this is so fundamental, it runs through all cases and all people. If a person can’t be controlled and can’t control anything, there’s something wrong with the Help button. If a person cannot communicate, there’s certainly something wrong with the Help button. If a person isn’t interested in life, then there’s something wrong with the Help button. This inevitably is true.
This is so fundamental that the reason life is life and people are together and grass grows and trees grow and apparently the rain falls and everything else, is because it helps somebody.
Well, you have to kind of straighten out their Help button and straighten out their Control button, straighten out their Communication button and after that, why, they can see and look and be interested in things with a great deal of relief and relaxation. And it’s a very good thing to do. If all you knew about Scientology was that, you’d still make a go of it. There’s an interesting thing about it, however, is you start accumulating friends when you start doing things like this and unless you’re prepared to have a lot of friends, I wouldn’t advise it. Be a bad thing to do.
Well, wherever we look in life, we find there is—there are things we can help. There are things we can do. The only thing that goes wrong with this is not helping, but in not being able to.”-LRH
This was an excerpt from the lecture Help, London Congress, given on the 7th of July 1960.
Glossary
• button: that computation or foible or quirk of the human mind which can be made right by merely touching one factor. EG its possible to flatten one’s HELP button by discussing help with them. This term comes from the idea of pushing a button to activate something, as in an electrical or mechanical device.
• control: ability in starting-changing-stopping or starting-continuing-completing.
• equalize: to make up for; to counterbalance.
• fold up: to break down; collapse.
• ingrained: firmly fixed or established (a habit, belief or attitude), in a person.
• in the sun: without worry or care.
• make a go (of something): make something a success.
George, when I originally read this part of the book I took integration to simply mean finding points of reality about Scientology with other individuals or schools of thought. Integration doesn’t have to mean mixing models or diluting technology. It’s more of an interconnectedness that enhances everything from my point of view. What part of a thought or model is consistent that might prompt someone to look deeper into Scientology, or that prompts we as Scientologists to seek a better understanding of other technologies so that we may be either explain Scientology better or find more reality.
In research on corporate culture change, Harvard Business School Professors found that the people who hold the comm lines in an organization hold the real power…that’s LRH and a point of reality with the very best minds in organizational management. This certainly doesn’t mean that they would immediately adopt all Green on White, but it might serve as a starting point to look at what else might be workable or not.
It’s a way of integrating Scientology into society as a whole rather than enforcing the wrong indication upon it that whatever its doing now is completely wrong. It is a lie that someone must abandon every technology they’ve ever tried and replace it with Scientology in order to be enlightened in any way. Man has been seeking truth for eons and in many respects has been successful. I really see this idea of integration as the gradient by which Scientology can one day really take hold, not by which it will be lost.
Grundoon,
Up through the 80’s Scientology was successfully integrating in a lot of ways. There was drug rehabilitation with Narconon. The study tech was being used by different groups around the world. Businesses were getting management tech by groups like Sterling Management. The way to happiness was disseminated everywhere. Scientology was successfully integrating until DM fully took control.
Tony, that is your identification, not mine. I am not here to entertain. I am not here to make people feel comfortable with fixed ideas. I am here for the reasons stated over and over. It is summed up in the title of the blog. Some people share intelligent, free thoughts here. I acknowledge a lot of those. Some challenge me with loaded, misemotional questions I have answered time and time again. Sometimes I try to shake them out of their cult-indoctrinated think. I get that bothers you. Thanks for sharing your views.
What part of KSW says you can’t study other religions and observe other practices? Its just that, if you do Scientology; do Scientology, and not something else. The only way to do Scientology is to ensure that what is being done, is actually really Scientology – and not something else, in the meantime, masquerading as Scientology.
KSW doesn’t say “give up all other schools of thought” to me. Nowhere does LRH discourage you from engaging in a broad and invigorated investigation into all Literature .. of whatever form you choose. In fact, one might discover that he, in fact, encodes an absolute encouragement, in every word, to discover and attain states of both Author- and Reader-ship in ones approach to Scientology.
It says, instead; if you are going to do Scientology, make sure it is Scientology you are doing, and here is how to recognize it; 10 points, end of problem. For the rest of the experience in Scientology, if you see any of those points out, get ’em in, because they are the cause of failure. Big deal?
Guess what, substitute the word “Scientology” with, say, “Sailing”, and you’ve got an additional clue; KSW is an application of a general truth, about the 3rd dynamic; no tech is technology until it is Standard, recognized, used, corrected when mis-used, and adhered to by its proponents. Try it with quite a few technical subjects; you’ll not find many for which a direct substitution would not be sufficiently acceptable a statement to make.
I think maybe its easy to justify a lot of stupid thinking, and very many discriminatory, incriminating acts by various “Scientologists” who have operated on posts over the last few decades, by referring only to KSW #1 as the reason things are broken, but on the other hand as a first-policy for the rest of the OEC’s, HCOB’s, and so on, its a pretty good guide for how you should approach the subject as a new student.
It really isn’t good to mix Scientology auditing and spiritual technology with other practices, honest.
And if you try to mix things up, you might miss the point along the way, that LRH did in fact know a *lot* about various religious and ideological positions, while building the Bridge; the days in Saint Hill, for example, were often superlative investigations into other practices available at the time; and the way is actually taped in such a fashion that, if you study the materials in order, you will see *why* it is so necessary to have a Standard Tech in order to gain results in Scientology.
Isolating Scientology as a Standard Technology, is the point of KSW; to ensure that the known proven practices which produced real processes, which WORKED, were not mixed with other unknowns. Scientology is what is known about what works to handle case, for the purposes of helping the PC; many other mental and spiritual practices won’t go so far as to admit that the purpose is even to help someone, and so an aversion to mixing processes and practices definitely has a technical basis. Since Help is key to the PC/Auditor relationship, dogma which doesn’t care to define what Help is, definitely interferes with standard application.
There are some aspects of other practices un-accounted for in Scientology thought, for a reason; ideological conflict over the rightness or wrongness of invalidating or evaluating for a PC, for example, is a very, very common issue on Qual lines. Scientology won’t work if there is someone connected to the PC using Inval, Eval, Nullification, in their common mode of interaction; handle-or-disconnect in such a case really, really does work. It will bring the PC back onto what they are attending to in session, and thus getting *through* the process without interference is the key issue. The way out, is the way through; this is not some shallow maxim, but in fact a significant tool in the effort to blow major charge attached to, almost, everyones case.
Meditation out of session can lead to expensive (in terms of PC/Auditor time together) diversions to handle Interiorization/Exteriorization issues, and if your *intent* is to get through the Objectives, branching off to do a past-lives/meditation/religion/anti-religion/doubt-condition can be a surefire way to get the PC red-tagged and blown for good, and Auditors absolutely massacred (and wondering WTF) for having not had Standard Tech in the first place.
So as an Auditor I can say that LRH was wise to require that Scientologists should be able to recognize Standard Tech when they see it.
I do not think that discriminatory culture can be justified, or justifiable, in the body of the KSW#1 policy letter. Scientology, when it is being applied for good, to help the PC, should not be interfered with alongside other practices. To do so, is to entirely miss the point that a Standard route is very important to you, the thetan, once you begin the journey of Bridging the Theta->MEST relationship, and its current condition.
Thanks for the response. I usually don’t have a problem with how you handle people. Especially annoying types. I just feel that I have seen that your comm to some people such as Steve Hall and Chris, seems abrupt and out of ARC. Maybe the roughness blows them out of something? I don’t really get that they need that and I think a good ARC handling of their origination would handle it. But hey, it’s your blog. I am just giving you some feed back. We could probably go back and forth about this but I will end cycle on it for now. Have a good day.
I’m with you on this one, in that I have had a similar experience. I didn’t really understand just how *great* it was to be a Scientologist until I’d made my way in the wider world and encountered many, many more different walks of life.
I would say this, though: Auditor training is key to my surivival, so far. It sure would be nice to know a few others, get the old 3rd dynamic exchange a little better off normal. And I think this is what Moving Up A Little Higher means to me, actually; a chance to get out of the darkness and chat with others on a subject in which we are all intensely interested.
I’d like to start a “Free Word Clearing” chain in most modern Cities, whereby a person can get word clearing – on any subject at all – for free. Maybe its a Demo Activity, but I’m sure it’d be nice to sit in some places with great foot traffic and word-clear all day ..
Oh, so many other things that could be done, in the PR caper department, if but for the suppression. Imagine if every Org opened its doors to the public by putting the reception of every Org in a planet-wide video conference session, and left it open all day, every day. This way, you could communicate from any Org to any other Org, no matter the time of day, at the very least.
“Real World – The Sea Org Files”;- a new team of SO members don their hats, fire up a new Ship, and go off to deliver OT3 to willing public. Live on TV.
Well, the mind boggles at the alternative universes ..
I invite you to read those threads – sans others’ interjecting and evaluating – more carefully. If it does nothing to change your view, I invite you to copy and share with me by email a specific back and forth – copy and past it – you specifically object to.
People may not be working tirelessly to destroy the world but many, many of them are working tirelssesly to keep it the way it is. In the end that to me is the same thing.
Marty,
The definition of Scientology is fundamentaly, “Knowing how to know”, correct? Therefore, Scientology gives one a key to understanding and aligning data in a great number of fields.
Given that, how can anyone not see that the final goal is to open oneself to these other bodies of knowledge and not shutting them out?
Why argue with what you are saying — like a few do?
In my opinion, if one truly understood Scientology, then one would most definitely open oneself up to those other fields; one would study other practices and, using Scientology, as a “decoding device”, gain a deeper insight in what they have to teach.
This is why I found this post rather interesting. There is a whole universe, outside of the walls of the CofS, that is both wonderful and terrifying — but actually I found it to be mostly wonderful — unlike the barren, black-or-white environment of the Miscavige-regime Sea Org.
I know you and I, Marty, do not know each other very well. Still, I have been a regular follower of your blog for the last 3 years. I have come to a sort of limited understanding of “where you are coming from” (I say “limited” because, without actual live interaction, complete understanding is impossible, in my VP); I agree with it without any weird expectations from you.
Even though I do not consider myself a Scientologist anymore, SCN has been such a central part of my life that it will be always a part of me.
I know this may come out strange, but you are my only line — the only line I can trust at this time — to this body of data, because you talk about those things I also think to be true: integration, tolerance and, yes, humbleness — I strongly believe it takes humbleness to wield a powerful technology like Scientology.
These are not qualities the CofS manifests, even though they profess they do.
Bottom line: Do I care what “direction” you seem to be taking? No. Just keep on writing, please!
Just as the world of physics feels the need for a “Theory of Everything”, the literal Scnist feels they already have it in Scn. Once you have knowingly or unknowingly adopted the Scientology Theory of Everything, you have no reason to look at anything else. This can be enforced to Must Not Look, and Must Not Allow Others To Look. I’ve experienced this on many flows, and have done it myself.
I’m not sure why there has to be a “Theory of Everything”, seems like an arbitrary to me, possibly even a fixed idea.
I suppose there is comfort to believe that one has “found” a theory of everything; but, instead of salvation, it becomes your prison. A most insidious prison, because you are convinced it is freedom. And, by Gawd, I’m gonna make you see the light just like I did, even if it kills ya. When critics start accusing Scn of brainwashing I think this is what they are picking up on.
In my opinion, LRH warned us of this, but at the same time I think inadvertently contributed to it. I also get the feeling that maybe LRH felt obligated to solve everything himself, or others expected him to. I mean the guy wrote a reference on how to properly clean windows. On the list of philosophic discoveries, that’s pretty much everything.
flavp, yours here is a well put sum up:
The definition of Scientology is fundamentaly, “Knowing how to know”, correct? Therefore, Scientology gives one a key to understanding and aligning data in a great number of fields.
Given that, how can anyone not see that the final goal is to open oneself to these other bodies of knowledge and not shutting them out?
I agree with you, CLIV.
If Scientologists were faithfully applying KSW, they would ALL be on this blog, connecting up with others who want a return to real Scientology.
Marty, I think you have nailed it. A divergence took place in the real-world establishment of the organizations of Scientology as early as the 1960s and 1970s. There was a “road not taken”, and the way that was taken somehow led to DM and the current scene.
What has always struck me are the parallels to at least a couple of other religions, Christianity and Islam. Both of those essentially succumbed to fascist tendencies in their history; Islam is still struggling with these.
All indications are Christianity was originally basically a “gnostic” movement and philosophy, that is, one based on direct and immediate experience of truth and freedom, rather than on submissive faith in a better “hereafter” someday in the future, “but just continue to pay your taxes now and don’t make waves”. Islam also had it’s “gnostic” elements which were persecuted (Sufis).
OK, my point is that clearly the original Christian teachings were seen as a threat by established secular rulers and “powers that be”. This is historically documented in books such as Elaine Pagels’ “Beyond Belief”.
The leaders of Christianity were quite overtly told by the kings and emperors of the time, “Cool it or we will exterminate you and all your followers.” Back then, they had the unchecked power of life and death over everyone in their domains.
The result was the Christian scriptures were alter-ised (altered, changed), mainly by removal of the gnostic elements and a shifting of the emphasis towards a “religion of faith and belief”, ie a religion of sheeplike obedience. In Islam, there was apparently a tension from early times, between the “orthodox” Islamists who were part of the secular establishment and supported the ruling Caliphs and such, and the gnostic Sufis, who were sometimes summarily put to death for being too outspoken. Of course the reason they were so outspoken was because their gnostic experiences of truth removed their fear of death. This is precisely why secular powers do not like gnostic teachings – they make the people unafraid.
I tend to think LRH’s struggles to “establish” the survival of CoS organizations were colored by similar considerations. Once the very survival of one’s “symbiotes” (DMSMH) is threatened, the end(survival) begins to justify the means used to achieve it. The alternative can be martyrdom..
So yes, LRH initiated some trends and policies that have resulted in CoS becoming a fascist state. But this reality was co-created inspite of other, senior, LRH policies, such as maintaining good relations with the environment and delivering what was promised. The responsibility for this seems to me to lay with the co-creators who went much too far in cherry-picking the LRH policies and interpretations they have chosen to follow.
The US government could have in fact squashed the Scientology movement like a bug. This was somehow averted, but apparently at great cost to the quality and original spirit of Scientology, just as happened to the other religions I mentioned.
We are now responsible for sorting it out and infusing Scientology with the original spirit it was intended to have, benign, helpful, truthful, and effective. This cannot be accomplished by individuating and isolating ourselves in a cult. Thus “integration”, which simply means spreading it, using it, throughout societies. This has nothing to do with “watering it down” or changing it. It is in fact the CoS that has watered it down, changed it, and suppressed Scientologists into no longer engaging with society in any constructive ways. Certainly that wasn’t LRH’s original intent!
If more people saw it that way, I think the world of Scientology would be a far brighter place.
I think a case can be made for restricting a Scientology org bookstore to selling LRH materials only. Anything else is likely to be an individual viewpoint on Scientology thus somewhat limited or colored by that person’s perception of the subject.
Case in point – Ruth Minshull wrote a little volume about “Ups and downs in life”. I forget the exact title. It was about the SP and PTSness. All well and good, significant data.
But, possibly to avoid copyright issues, she reduced the number of identifying characteristics from 12 to 11, and in doing so, had to re-write at least one of them, thus effectively keeping only 10 of LRH’s original characteristics.
I somewhat liked Ruth’s books, they were decent dissemination pieces, but they were definitely her slant on Scientology, thus it could be argued they did not really belong in Scientology org bookstores.
What is there to integrate? Scientology was born on the back of the Dynamics which per every Scientology reference Ron ever wrote are defined by yourself. You get to decide how many kids and how much compassion and what kind of hobbies and what your contribution to the Dynamics should be.
So then people let Miscavige and others in the Sea Org define their Dynamics for them. Let them drop all compassion and pracctically disregard all the Dynamics except the Church completely. So people let the Sea Org run their lives and do this to them. And now we are supposed to blame Ron for all this?
Re psychiatry, I agree with all Ron’s criticial comments about it. Yet I disagree with the Church’s emphasis on it. There is such a thing as an admin scale and the PURPOSE of orgs are to deliver auditing and training. So I know Ron would disagree with it too just as any thinking Scientologist would.
You know, Ron also said that people like ice cream. Perhaps the Church should embark on a crusade to promote ice cream?
No, I disagree entirely with this latest drive to blame Ron for our own stupidity.
steve spargo
Really good post that identifies the actual issues here.
It is the CoS itself that is in truth violating KSW 100 ways from Sunday.
Thanks Steve. Can you tell me what you are referring to by ‘this latest drive to blame Ron for our own stupidity.’?
“I suppose there is comfort to believe that one has “found” a theory of everything; but, instead of salvation, it becomes your prison. A most insidious prison, because you are convinced it is freedom. And, by Gawd, I’m gonna make you see the light just like I did, even if it kills ya.”
Good stuff, statpush.
Another excellent and absolutely correct analysis, Gern! I never once had anyone tell me “you can’t do this or that”, other than during auditing. Never once did anyone tell me “you shouldn’t read this or that”. At least not from 1969-1995.
I did have reason to partake in a couple of sessions with a psychologist later on (not really on my own determinism). He was a great guy, really cared about his clients. But it was Oh So Superficial compared to auditing – really kind of laughable. What I didn’t like was, no matter what you were into, once the hour is up, that’s it! Also it was really easy to get him to veer off topic if I didn’t want to talk about it.
To me, good auditing is sort of like fine wine. Once you are used to it, you can really tell what the inferior products are.
Gern, this post of yours is one of the best I have ever read on this blog. Thank you for writing it, I hope everyone reads and thinks hard about it.
You keep this up, I may even start buying into your political opinions!
EO, that is in fact true of any “therapeutic” activity or movement. How a person fares at the hands of any therapist, doctor, educator, priest, depends on the intention of the practitioner. Just about any practice or philosophy can be used for good or ill.
I know that somewhere, LRH clarifies what he means by the term “psychs”. He includes priests, witch doctors, and most particularly, implanters – those who in most all cultures from time immemorial have sought to control people by superstition or worse. The Mayan priests, for example, had a lot of this, with calendars and forecasts of eclipses etc used to control the populace.
And also, don’t forget that in FPRD tech, there is more info about this technically. I have to say, I didn’t believe it at first, but then I had some of the gigantic blowouts from spotting the source of some contrasurvival purposes.
Maybe LRH meant to include every psychologist, every psychiatrist, ever priest, etc, in the defining of “psychs” as evil – but maybe not. I don’t know, but I always thought it was a catchword for the ones in those groups who really were out to harm and control, and I have no doubt that people like this exist and have existed for eons.
Wow, awesome research and post Maria!
There are those critics who like to put forth that LRH wasn’t being attacked by vested interests and he was just paranoid. That is a crock.
I wonder how many of those critics were actually around in the 1950s and 1960s, and saw the cultural scene for themselves. “Confront of evil”, lack thereof, does not just apply to CoS members who fail to realize what the CoS has become.
+1
Well, prompted in this way, I agree that “drive” is too strong a word for the ideas that are expressed here. To clarify, I’ll make these points:
a. Scientology does not lack compassion. It rides on the fundamental that greater survival can only be achieved by greater affinity, understanding and responsibility for others. This was released into a world that thought survival meant “dog eat dog”. I don’t want to integrate Scientology back into a “dog eat dog” world.
b. Scientology makes no attempt to define our Dynamics for us. They are always expressed as categories of purposes and Ron always said emphasis can and is assigned by individuals themselves. One of the most shocking aspects of this whole business is that I could be so inspired by such enlightened empowerment of the individual and then allow myself to be blackmailed by the Church into abandoning that view.
Before Scientology the world was an unattractive place where people had little understanding of what they were trying to achieve and had practically zero technology of achieving it beyond the barrel of a gun. So I don’t want to integrate Scientology back into something that always lacked compassion, that always encouraged inter-personal strife and fomented wars. I want to see a greater attainment of the ideals and understanding that Scientology truly expresses.
steve
Thank you once again..both to Gern and to Marty.
When I first went on staff at Toronto, Otto Wilkens the EO was dead set against my being there. I left a job as someone working to get a PHD in Psychology, and was an Instructor (teaching a ful class but not yet an Associate Professor) (and before that I had been a TA, teaching assistant as a grad student working for my masters Degree) teaching Abnormal Psychology and Social Psychology. He did not get it that I knew they did not “cure” and that I had already been trained in book One by a Dianeticist who was also a Psych prof in new York.. My minor as an undergrad had been comparative World Religions. Many people in the “wog” world do psych or religion looking for answers. Anyway I did very well on staff…both in high stats and in holding a position…never once doing an All Nigher or going without food or rest and ALWAYS took my days off…still much to the chagrin of the EO. And i got trained as an auditor…because that is what they did with all staff in early 70s at Toronto. And staff got auditing! And lots of co-auditing took place. If KSW was meant to stop me, i never bothered with that. When i did my Ministers Course we studied pretty much the same materials at the Org as I had in college on various religions.
And it was the same at SHUK when I went there. And while on staff at St Louis later (except for last 8 months there…but that is a different story).
Scientology works for me. If it does not then find out what the auditor did wrong, or the CS…and do not just take the PCs word for it…if the PC is nattering that means an ARC Break…but behind ALL ARC Breaks lies a Missed Withhold. It can be a combo of auditor error and PC doing something like mixing a practice WHILE GETTING AUDITING or perhaps doing a bit of self auditing hidden or coffee shop auditing or going over all the details of the auditing they had on a daily basis with their friends. Just find out what is out…all of it. Look, Don’t Listen
Grant Beingness, and avoid 3rd Party or the accepting of it from others. too often we “believe” because we consider someone a viewpoint for us. Once again, Look, Don’t Listen. And Marty is right…Have Compassion. It does not make you weak.
I got more people in Scientolgy with Ruth Minschull’s books than I ever did with Dianetics.
Thanks Steve. Do you have any views about the post and the chapter quotation?
Having had my say after getting all excited about some minor disagreements in this post, I would have to say my comments don’t communicate my feelings about this too well and that I support the majority of what Marty is saying here. The Dynamics are what people are doing and Scientologists can assuredly take lessons from non-Scientologists on this subject.
The point that gets me a little het up is that before Scientology we were all doing our darndest to get our Dynamics on the road and it just wasn’t flying. In spite of all our most sincere intentions and earnest efforts, the world kept disintegrating about us in violent explosions. Incredibly high rates of divorce and marital unhappiness. Wars killing millions of people. Corruption and tyranny on every corner. Individually, the community is just chock full of failed purposes, out-ruds and illness. That’s the present … and the future doesn’t look very encouraging either.
Scientology is the first subject to point out the basic issue causing all this trouble. The reactive mind. Then it developed methods of handling it.
The value of this subject to man is inestimable.
After what has just happened, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel to point out wrongnesses in Scientology – or the practitioners thereof. But I long for a more sympathetic view of Scientology which is based on the potentials of the subject rather than the goofs we have just perpetrated in “our Church”.
Before I was ever interested in Scientology, I was interested in philosophy. As LRH defined it in My Philosophy, it’s “the love, study or pursuit of wisdom, or of knowledge of things and their causes, whether theoretical or practical.” He continued, “The first principle of my own philosophy is that wisdom is meant for anyone who wishes to reach for it.” “The second principle of my own philosophy is that it must be capable of being applied.” “The third principle is that any philosophic knowledge is only valuable if is true or if it works.” “These three principles are so strange to the field of philosophy, that I have given my philosophy a name: SCIENTOLOGY. This means only “knowing how to know.”
I have never forgotten that “Scientology” is just a name for A philosophy, and that philosophy itself, the pursuit of wisdom, is more fundamental than Scientology. Saying that Scientology is better or truer than another philosophy, or the opposite, is silly. Just be interested in what works. Philosophy is my interest, wherever I may find it. “For I know no man who has any monopoly on the wisdom of this universe. It belongs to those who can use it to help themselves and others.”
p.s. The first principle is completely violated by being unaffordable to 99% of the planet. EPIC FAIL.
Its a matter of training, I think, Marty. An untrained Staff Member will see KSW#1 as a means of justifying their overts; a trained Auditor will see it as a means of getting their PC’s in session and off to Qual for final exam.
We must demand that Scientologists holding key posts demonstrate their competence IN SESSION, and nowhere else.
This is the only way out of the mess: the actual, real, Application of Scientology by Auditors In Session.
Publius
I see it this way as well. It should become obvious to any still adhering members in the Co$ that if things aren’t going too well it is INTERNALLY MADE SO, no ogres from the outside!
Greta
Thanks Steve, understood.
Marty, I very much appreciate this post. Especially this: “most importantly – remember that no matter what the question, the answer is ‘love.’ ”
I have not read your books, which is why I never comment about them. It just seems that I am not part of your intended audience. So, it’s not my concern. Thus, I am so glad I got the chance to read this excerpt. The Chocolate Velvet is such a goofy romantic, and the love you and Monique share shines through your words so beautifully.
You and she are truly blessed, to have that kind of love. It’s rare in this world, and hard to grow. Thanks for this, and the poems, and the philosophical musings. There seems to be a more personal tone in some of your posts, and I enjoy seeing more of Marty, the whole person. After all, the person is the product of the process, you might say. I think the best way to witness for what you believe is to live your life in fullness and express yourself openly so others can see and gauge for themselves. 🙂
Agreed. DMSMH was not an easy read, partly because it is 3 books in 1.
I think Ruth wrote her books as Dissemination pieces and they worked well for that, especially Miracles for Breakfast. Her book about the Tone Scale, How To Choose Your People, also got good reviews. I personally like her booklet “How to Cure the Selfish, Destructive Child”, I believe it’s titled. She had started a series which I believe she called “The Application Series” which I liked the idea of. I think she had one about money, too. These were good booklets and books.
As I said, I think a case can be made for not selling them directly from Org bookstores, that’s all. Would a Catholic bookstore sell books that were Protestant books about Martin Luther and the Reformation, or a Christian Science bookstore sell Catholic books? I don’t know. They may choose not to do so.
In fact, I feel an objection within myself about the Div 6 “Life Improvement” courses the orgs have been using all these years now. And I never liked the design of the glossy booklets, either. But those are my personal prejudices. At this point, I think Independents should try using whatever honest promo pieces that work. If an Independent org wants to stick with LRH only materials, fine. If they want to try a different approach, fine.
These are different times anyway. With the Internet, some of Ruth’s books are available for free download, for example.
Perhaps it is just nostalgia on my part, but I think promoting the value of improved Communication skills is the ticket, as in the old HAS course, or the STCC, which I did do myself and got a lot out of it.
But I did like Ruth’s concept of the Application series.
Hello Valkov:
“In fact, I feel an objection within myself about the Div 6 “Life Improvement” courses the orgs have been using all these years now. And I never liked the design of the glossy booklets, either. But those are my personal prejudices. At this point, I think Independents should try using whatever honest promo pieces that work. If an Independent org wants to stick with LRH only materials, fine. If they want to try a different approach, fine.”
My biggest issue with those materials (Life Improvement Course, Scientology Handbook et al) is, they don’t index the source-materials. They quote LRH (or deviate from source materials) without giving the correct reference. It’s out KSW. I never liked it.
It would be absolutley no problem to produce some “Livingness Course” Checksheets based solely on Source Materials (or with quotes with reference to the source reference).
In a perfect world we would have a Source-Server with all the HCOBs/PLs and other (non confidential) Materials online for quick reference. That’s a big project, but it would be worth doing it (for the sake of KSW), accessible for all. For free. Different terminals would have external blogs/forums/connection points to guarantee the authenticity of the materials.
As someone already said, I too think Scientology is in a danger condition (not the Church, but the subject). “Having the correct technology” was done in 1965, but since then new tech was invented and lots of the Tech was mixed up since the 70’s. I don’t trust RTC in this case to 100% and I don’t think the new volumes are “free of taint”.
I’d like to remind of this LRH-Quote
Today we are way beyond magnetic tape and printing technology.
Unfortunatly, the material isn’t free of teint anymore.
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Love your post Marty
I think there ought to be an investigation into the nature of the external influences brought to bear upon the Church of Scientology, International, personnel and finance lines by such groups as the Mormon Church, the Roman Catholic Church, and so on .. A lot of “ex-Mormons” can be found all over key positions in the Church during the 80’s, 90’s .. and even yet still today. Whether an overt or covert campaign, or just by stint of cultural osmosis, I see a lot of parallels in the dramatizations of many Int staff, and their ex-religions. Roman Catholics being specifically targetted, on Int Clearance lines, for more sec-checking about masturbation and out-2D, for example, as a means of ‘softening up the PC for the CSW’; endlessly *top secret elite* groups forming around the command channels, and so on.. this is not actually Scientology practice. We can see a lot of other religious influence in the SO Board Policy Directives, and so on, published throughout the ages.
Key to me was the decision to prevent all SO members from having families; I believe this atrocious policy is the direct result of an un-seen, hidden religious battle going on, within Church lines. Real warfare.
“” But I long for a more sympathetic view of Scientology which is based on the potentials of the subject rather than the goofs we have just perpetrated in “our Church”.””
You are not alone, Steve. There is factually nothing stopping you and me, for example, from finding 5 or 7 or 10 others, to found our own Class VI Org, to deliver the materials and Grade Chart freely, without suppression or complications or having to have before one can do, and so on. We could do it, in this day and age.
I suggest we do it on a boat. Got time for that?
Marty,
Great Post. I have never had anyone reject the ideas of Scientology when honestly stated by me. I have only met agreement. I always sought to make alignment with what philosophy I read before, during, and after joining Scientology, so I rejected the idea that ‘nothing else works’. In my actual experience, nothing stands close in actual practice, but preaching/enforcing such doesn’t create ARC with others but only separates as you have stated.
I also reject the idea that psychiatry is the root of all crime. That is absurd since crime has been around longer than pyschiatry. Even when Ron says it is the sole destruction of this sector he is over generalizing it. All evil intentioned beings who mess with the minds and intentions of others are not from one oranization called psychiatry. An evil being is an evil being and will pop up anywhere, but this same evil doer was not always so. If anyone feels they deserve a halo, speak up. Besides, what wisdom from anywhere suggests that one should endlessly attack his opponents, either real or imagined, in an effort to create more good in the world. It is like bombs creating peace. I guess if one’s idea of peace is death, then bombs work.