Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis

I have a feeling that Rock Center’s segment tonight on Scientology from the viewpoints of Paul Haggis and Lawrence Wright is going to be rather interesting.  You may not agree with all you see and hear, but I suggest you ought to see and hear it.

NBC Rock Center Scientology segments

And, A preview from NBC Today show.

159 responses to “Rock Center with Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis

  1. The Today show has a good interview with Lawrence Wright –

    2013 is certainly starting off with a bang for Davey!

  2. It looks like it hits on some key data. The “Truth Rundown”, Miscavige violence. That is stuff that should be TR3-ed until people confront it.

  3. Last January Debbie bruised his left nut, this year it is the Wright nut.

  4. I want to invest in a Copper Mine so documented David Miscavige
    storys about how copper ground rods equal case gain will improve my portfolio. Go Rock Center !

  5. My head is still spinning 🙂 What a nightmare… Hugs to all the survivors. I am still decompressing and trying to recover.

  6. I like the way they (the cult) keep using the line that anyone who is whistleblowing on them are “admitted liars”. Does this infer that the cult as a group has NEVER lied? Does this infer that the cult is composed of only TOTALLY perfect beings?? How could the cult be so clean and honest if the people that are leaving are “admitted liars”?? Wouldn’t that also mean that there are MORE “admitted liars” still inside?????

  7. Amazingly, one of my facebook friends posted this morning the link to a salon article about Larry’s new book.

    She never was a scientologist but knows me from years ago.

    So – her link will go to her 200 friends none of whom were scientologists except me. And some will share with their friends etc

    That tipping point I mentioned yesterday wherein the “powers that be” say … well, damn. It’s getting out of hand now. Too many people have noticed things are messed up.

    We need to pull the plug OTHERWISE we have no credibility …

    So fell Maddoff, Slatkin, Citibank, that trader in Singapore … etc

    The sins were there all along BUT only when it just got way too public did the PTB pull the plug.

    sayonara …

  8. The nightmare is certainly that. The good news is that we CAN ALL WAKE UP if we choose to.

    My take on 2013 is it will be the equivalent of the USS Missouri cruising (no pun intended) into Tokyo bay for the surrender ceremonies.

    Davey, it’s time to get your best $5000.00 suit dusted off for your final (albeit putrid) presentation to the world of just how sad a human being you are. And listen closely……….there are sucking noises coming from Hemet, Home of the Hermit! Hope you enjoy the news today!

  9. This story will be repeated until all of the lies have been fully exposed. No doubt this will be a grueling process for those still at the (Kool – Aid) stand because it is all part of their future!

  10. And he knows what comes next!

  11. One Point Won

    This is VERY good news, thank you! Also, if there is any way that we can quickly “dead-agent” (show proof of falsity) the responses of these blatant lies (of rebuttal) from the Church of Scn which simply state that Haggis is lying and that Haggis did poor research, etc., please tell me. I am certain that MANY of us have so MANY times witnessed overworked, undernourished, unpaid Sea Org children (not to mention adults) employed at Scn churches. Unfortunately, before I was declared, I never thought to film this at Flag, AOLA, and even at the CLO (Continental Liaison Office), or I would send copies to the media immediately.

  12. Yes that is their catch phrase, and what a paradox it is. Does this mean that the cult has never lied?..No, it means that the ones that are in charge have never ADMITTED to it. The ones that leave, “the SP’s”, are the ones who have admitted it which is why they have to leave .. truth hurts .The ‘logic’ used to by the church to cover their ass is mental quicksand, and one would have to be sinking in it to believe the ridiculous statements spewed to the press.

  13. I have never had to stop reading a book and take a break.

    Except today — Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief.

    Heading in to town. I might stop at Sephora just to completely change scenery.

    Unless you are completely without a heart, this book will rock your foundations.

    Be forewarned.

    And I’m so so sorry to those who suffered physical punishment or were so crazed they dished out physical punishment. And to Lisa McPherson. There by the grace of god


  14. Windhorse…What’s “PTB?”

  15. PTB = powers that be —- often referred to by people are a hidden group or multitudes of groups that are the power behind the obvious power.

  16. Overall,

    Significance and more significance.

    Where is the action?


  17. You have to kind of wonder when will the CofS begin to implode in a major and significant way, when those who enforce DM’s tirades stand up and say, “No!”, and Dm is left hanging in the wind.

    The Soviet Union disappeared rather quickly when it’s decrees were ignored by the population and those in the government who disagreed with what the home grown terrorists were dong to the people and to the world. The attempts by the government terrorists to enforce it’s way on the dissent was ignored, and the soviet suppression evaporated.

    Unlike many here, I still think that ultimately the only hammer that will work is the government; FBI, IRS, Justice, because only the government has the funds to really push this all the way in the legal system, but I think the catalyst will be reports such as we are seeing now.

    At some point the public outcry will compel Congress or some elected officials to step in and demand an investigation into the CofS from the view that the CofS is really an organized crime group hiding behnd the religious cloaking.

    DM must have considered January last year a nightmare; I wonder what he is thinking of January this year?

  18. I doubt many people buy their response. For starters, Paul Haggis is willing to be there and communicate. The Church can’t do that. The Church can’t “look you in the eye”. Secondly, their explanations are laughable and cult-like. It’s a complete PR failure. Miscavige and the Church would be better off just not responding at all. Miscavige can choose between being seen as a lying, violent con-man or a lying, violent con-man who is lying.
    Well, I don’t know, I guess they are about the same.

  19. I believe it’s “powers that be”.

  20. This is the kind of analytical argument that needs to be brought up in the media against “their” pat and predictable answers.

  21. In the past the ‘church’ would have a spokesperson make a statement in the form of Heber, Rinder, and later Tommy Davis. Now all Miscavige does is send statements to various media outlets using Karen Pouw’s name and he says the same damn thing. It’s filled with diatribe like, ‘they were dismissed’, ‘never happened’, ‘defrocked apostates’, etc. Anyone with a little bit of common sense can see through these robotic and generic responses for what it is – Bullshit!

    Miscavige is truly in a ‘bunker’ mentality state. He can’t take the chance to have someone ‘live’ to issue statements on TV for fear that they may screw up. Last night’s Nancy Many show on Discovery ID was chilling. The network was very brave airing this. But long gone are the days that networks can be intimidated. This is a sign of the cult’s demise. Debbie Cooks e-mail and trial had a humongous impact. But I give credit to Marty, Mike, The Headleys and other exes for exposing the abuses as well.

  22. Well, for once, David Miscavige cannot spout out that it is all Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder’s fault ! 😉

  23. I just got a call from Jim Lynch of Fredom Magazine fame. I talked to him for a few minutes. He said he was doing an investigation and wanted to know why I hadn’t seen Marty again and that it was his idea that an Auditor was supposed to have a C/S? What is Marty’s role in the Indie movement? I told him that I wasn’t sure what Marty’s role was and that he should ask Marty himself. He siad that he would call Marty and ask him. I don’t really know what the true purpose of the call was because I think he already had all the answers to these questions for the most part.
    I also told him that whatever percieved mistakes Marty was making that the corporate church was making many more and totally violating the principles of auditing. I told him that I liked the auditing I got from Marty. I wonder if he will put that in the Freedom Mag??

  24. I also asked him if he was a Scientologist and he said “no”.

  25. Wlcome everyone. As you know it is very important to not watch TV, or Read magazines or books, of course thinking is obviously banned as well as common sense. IT goes without saying that you should not ever and i mean EVER use the internet UNLESS you have this “enthena blocker”, we have them on sale right now for a $12,500 “donation” to our new Super DUPER Power building. Once you donate, you will get to be one of the first to get the honor of “seeing what it looks like from outside”

    Remember, TV INTERNET and THINKING – all out !

    By the way, did you happen to hear about that crazy articel in the St Pete Times ? The one where the former high ranking members gave interviews and described what they saw in the many years of service? Oh you have not heard of it, well make sure you dont EVER go there and look and do not try and find it on the internet, because it is there. Yes, I know Mike and Marty and Debbie had over 100 years combined service and yes they WERE in high ranking well respected posts, but they were sneaky SPs……. what do you mean, how did the Church not know they were SPs? Are you blaming the church or mr miscarriage?

    Here is your Golden rod and a 150,000$ Free loader bill,

    oh and before you leave….. HERE ……..sign this blank sheet of paper……..

  26. One Point Won

    ChrisMann9, regarding your reply “I doubt many people buy their response.”

    Yes, you and I certainly don’t buy the church’s lies in response to their “Mis-organized Crimes,” but apparently, about 20,000 members of the C of S still buy into the projectile-vomiting of David Mis-cavige. They too were wounded in the war on insanity…

  27. “We need to pull the plug OTHERWISE we have no credibility …”

    The way I see it, you guys have been doing just that for some time now, and should be commended for it. You’ve told your stories here and in the media, and you’ve provided a safe environment for those attempting to transition out of the church. And you’ve done these things in the face of constant ridicule, stalking, harassment, disconnection, etc….

    This equates to “pulling the plug” in my eyes. There’s only so much a single person or group can do though. That’s why all the sites, authors, and reporters that write about Scientology are of equal import in bringing awareness of the church’s abuses to the masses.

    This business of using the 1st Amendment as a tool for deception and control sickens me, and I personally hope that rising awareness and the resulting outrage within the public reaches a point that the authorities have no choice but to do something about it.

  28. Tony:

    There are ONLY 2 purposes for “questions” from Bozo:

    1. To seek to 3P someone (usually Marty)

    2. To try to introvert YOU (if they have something they think is a button).

    Jim Lynch does not have an original thought in his animatronic self. He is wound up and sent off to do his business like a good little robot.

    He is ONLY used to do this, because they are afraid that if they used a Scientologist, they might actually see the illogic of their statements or hear things from the SP’s they talk to that make them wonder…. Jim doesnt have the braincells or integrity of a Bert Leahy so he just keeps going as long as the paychecks roll in.

  29. Well Karen, I think he will give it his best shot.

    Almost guaranteed their response will be that he is a shoddy researcher/reporter who was conned by a small handful (ie Marty and his “posse”) of bitter defrocked apostates who just want to get their name in the media (?).

    It’s about all they CAN say — they will try to sweep all 200 people he spoke to into a generality rug and stick to their time-tested and proven “successful action” of claiming everything comes from a VERY few bitter posse members.

    I would bet everything I own on this.

  30. Sounds right. It was pretty weak stuff.

  31. Hi Marty, I just saw this article on CNN about “Atlantic’s Scientology ad crossed the line” article! Didn’t know how to send it to you so I’m adding it here:

    Lil’ davey is on fire ( villager’s love torching him 🙂 )


  32. I had lunch the other day with a fellow SP and disgruntled apostate about tonights expose. I was concerned that the CoDM would collapse and I most likely would not see the repayment of unused funds that I relentlessly have been pursuing. I had retained an attorney since I was fruitless in my efforts in getting results on my own as it is a substantial amount of money. After pouting and talking about this, I had this cognition…it’s not just about me…if tonights program does what I hope it does, more Scientologists will wake up and the church does collapse, this is a huge win! I suddenly realized that it’s okay. It’s okay if I don’t get that money back. what is important is that people wake up and not only cognite what the CofDM is truly about, but those people will find the Independent field. What I realized is I took the “must have” off and found I can also “not have”! I have laughing about this since!

  33. It’s been how many years and still no ethics change? When will David Miscavige and the OSA guys ever admit some kind of wrong doing? Just give me a tiny little bit of admittance of wrong doing. Please! All I hear from them is that “the other side is bad, bigoted, out to get them and that Miscavige is good. Such a good boy. Never did anything bad. Never noticed that people were being beaten up right next door. Miscavige is such a star. Creating this unprecedented real estate expansion. The only people beating up anyone or doing anything wrong are the very same people that are now blowing the whistle” Ok, we believe the great leader Miscavige. (not).

  34. Sorry I didn’t make myself more clear.

    “We need to pull the plug” — was the powers that be talking — the alphabet soup agencies saying that they were pulling their support (read under the table pay offs) of dm …

  35. Joe Pendleton

    “Prison of Belief” is an apt phrase judging from the many Scientologists’ posts I see on facebook. People in lockstep, posting the same things over and over and over. Scientology started out as an investigation into the phenomena of life with the purpose of improving awareness and survival. Very gradually it became a fixed set of “truths” that followers could not deviate from, even in their thinking; a disagreement would need a “remedy”; ALL not understandings of a Scientology datum were the result of a deficiency in the receiver of the datum, never the datum or the sender. The originator of Scientology knowledge became known as “source” and this source was recognized as the source of all wisdom really worth studying, and of course all that originated from “source” was truth. Eventually it was “discovered” that if one couldn’t really have a Scientology truth, it was because that truth was banging up against an earlier datum that the person had that was “false”, so the newest remedy was for a usually young and extremely ignorant person (in terms of any breadth of knowledge) to find and eliminate the source of this “false” data (that another usually very ignorant person would spot as “false” based on some knowingness that the earlier datum deviated from Scientology thought) and then the original ignorant young person would steer the other person to the “true data” on the subject (which the young ignorant person would know????????). And after some decades of this, can one possibly wonder at why Scientologists have easily accepted that their church has been run by a psycho fascist dictator for 30 years? Ron was right: go earlier similar.

  36. Pretty unreal eh?
    I used to wonder about this too.
    While on OT7 they used to be real big on sending me (and everyone) to ethics after thier sec checks and have them do conditions, ammends, M-9’s, and such. In the sec checks if you gave off something that someone else did, (someone elses “sins”) they (the auditor) would ask;”what did YOU DO??” It was ALWAYS the point to get us to see what “sins” we committed in order to “free” us. There is some workability to this technology but they took it to a suppressive extreme. But, I always wondered, why doesn’t the organization ever admit any wrong doing?? Why doesn’t the organization ie, some executive of the organization, admit some wrong doing and that huge errors were made, as we could all see they had been committed. I think I asked this a few times and the answer I got as I recall is that the Sea Org doesn’t answer to the public or the “wogs”. It is the wrong flow. The Sea Org is working it’s guts out and they will NEVER do any ammends to the lowly public or Non Sea Org types. ANY mistakes dm has made, I am sure he justifies as insignificant compared to all the “good” he is doing. I have even heard ” If you don’t like the way things are then join the Sea Org and change them”. What that really means is joing the Sea Org so we can beat the shit out of you and mentally torture you if you DARE to try to correct any out-points.

  37. Bedman, you are addressing the blinkered Scientologists, but the people here already know about the things you mention. Also, I’m not sure if the errors are deliberate or accidental, but along with your patronizing tone, they would definitely help a Churchist to reject your message.

  38. “This equates to “pulling the plug” in my eyes. ”

    And this is where that GIANT SUCKING NOISE that Mike refers to comes in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  39. And they likely pay the dried up little piece of hammered rat shit in fiat currency all the while. And cover his daily expenses and provide unsoiled diapers……I’ve gotta get some air.

  40. He should be given an honorary membership in the International Asshole Society, he certainly meets all requirements!

  41. THAT was effing hilarious! I’m only pissed because I wish I thought of it first!

  42. Tom Gallagher

    There is no doubt that Scientology, Incorporated has become a ‘secret society’. This corporation mirrors the corporate United States, Inc.. Exposure of crimes and criminals, ensures the greater survival. Godspeed!

  43. [snickering]

    Archie, Bedman is one of us. Don’t worry, he’s being sarcastic. 😉

  44. One Point Won

    I totally love the sound of your laughter, SRL!

  45. threefeetback

    The long hot summer continues in the bunker.

  46. Point taken Arch, and its not my plan to degrade anyone that is being deceived or manipulated, I can assure you that my message was directed at dM – and no one else. That being said: I do NOT believe that my words will sway even one member either FOR or AGAINST. IF I did entertain that I could have that sort of impact, I would take myself more seriously. As it stands for now, neither you or anyone else should take me too serious.

    Archie, I forgive you, since you dont know yet, that I am “kind of a big deal” and all………..I am the unofficial Rinder Car Waxer

    Dont worry if you dont get it, no one else does either…….

    Cheers and beers

    Hip Hop Hooray for this blog and Marty Mosey and Mike


  47. If you are still in you either somehow prevent yourself from seeing it (you actually stop yourself from looking because you will get in “trouble” if you look at this stuff); or if you do see something you firmly tell yourself that it’s a bunch of “black PR from SP’s” or something. Or you believe it and just arent sure what to do because you have been programmed to believe that you will lose your “spiritual eternity”, and/or you have family and friends you know would be forced to disconnect from you and you dont want to deal with that. A lot of people dont even have anything to lose but they just dont want the hassle or dont want to confront it so they just dont do anything except reduce their participation. In Orgs there are positions called “EO’s” (Ethics Officers) or “MAA’s” (Master at Arms) whose job it is to deal with people who get off the path. I was diciplined a few times for reading “enemy line” which means pretty much the same as Black PR. Enemy Line is if you believe or look at the enemies propaganda more or less. So if they get the idea yo uhad any thought contrary to group agreement you have to do punishment and “Amends” and “Make up the damage done”- that sort of thing.
    But underlying it all and holding it in place I think people are ther because they see something good in Scientology itself- in the writings and other materials of L Ron Hubbard. If not for that I think The Miscavige Virus would be attached to some other host, perhaps he would be working in some government bureaucracy where he could terrorize people and produce no product- liek the IRS or something.

  48. OMG TD you hit it right on the head……. the Co$ NEVER EVER has a problem or it has never made a mistake, it has never had to correct somthing. It is ALWAYS the bitter apostates and excommunicated members that are wrong. And dont get me started on dM…

    The church wont even admit that Der Fuhrer should be held responsible for former management’s transgressions. I mean what fortune 500 company has a scandle like the Co$ has currently and the CEO survives?

    I mean football head coaches get fired when shit blows up.


    There is nothing funnier than reading cult sponsored propaganda.

    And for the record I know the difference between the cult of scientology and the Scientology believers, which are like any microcosm of society – mostly good and ethical people.

    That is the biggest shocker people seem to have, whenever they ask me about the C0$ – i can say without fail, every person I speak to about Scientology is amazed when I tell them that 90% of Scientologists are GREAT people who are truly trying to make this world a better place.

    Mostly people I speak with, think they re all crzy or kooky or cultist.

    thats been the best thing about “getting to know” Marty or Rinder or Scobee or the amazing Headleys…. it changed what I thought about true believing scientologists….. for the better

    Cheers and sorry so long….


  49. Wow, Miscavige – where’s all your amazing PRs like Bob Keenan these days? Don’t need a hand with all these attacks? Oh I forgot, he’s a wuss who never had the guts to show his face on TV. At least Tommy Davis would make an appearance when told to. Now nobody does. Literally nobody. For a long time Scientology had a human face – a real person who could deal with media in person. That was Heber. Later it was Mike. Now there’s just a faceless black curtain hanging there. And from behind the curtain you hear a muffled, sort of hysterical voice saying “Liars!”, “Bigots!”,”Apostates!”, “Perverts!”, “Criminals!” — “every last one of them!” (By the way, where is Babbo Bob Keenan these days? Not that I really care.)

  50. Mike Rinder
    ~~ What I meant was the huge cultural hatred of the “church” of Scientology. Twitter and Google virtually going beserk on the AD of fluff and froth in Atlantic magazine, causing an Internet Uproar, Nancy Many on Discovery Channel…Larry Wright on Today show…Scientology Inc bashing…the new hobby of 2013 for Internet users…..
    and it’s all Marty and Mike ? 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  51. Let me clarify ….

    my point when I said above: that football coaches get fired when shit blows up – not the payers…. my point is the church has said that Rinder and Rath et al, were all violent and abusive to staff…..well. ok so then why isnt dM held responsible for putting those folks in their position ? Like any other normal business entity, the bucks stops here…at the top and he should be responsible when his underlings foul up…..but that is 100% NOT the Cult of $cientologys way…….

    I mean the great dM made a mistake?

    Impossible, he is the most ethical guy on the planet !


  52. Man, Tony. I don’t know what I would do. I think I might talk to him. I wouldnt tell him anything he could use, but I might try to match his tone and talk to him. I think a goal of mine is to be able to be there comfortably and communicate freely in any situation. I think I got a lot closer after I did Grade 0, but I still get a little tense in situations like this. I’m not sure why. maybe I’ll handle that later. I think it might just be the body. I talked to the EO of Nashville Ideal Org during a pretty intense time while they were declaring me- calling in my friends and family and having them read a “Dead Agent” pack on me including an SP declare, even though I never received any communication or copies of anything. I kept him on the line for a very long 15-20 minutes and felt pretty keyed out afterwards. This guy was so hateful and it had no effect on me. It was pretty awesome. I think I was actually on my Grade 0 at that time. I had a few other tense conversations with friends and relatives and if I recall correctly they all ended with the other person ending the call even though I was being perfectly calm and rational. I think if you keep your TR’s in and just hold your space without fighting, guys like that either go away or get real enturbulated and then go away. I think the first one is Jim’s style from what I’ve seen in videos. I’ll talk to him. I’ll tell him all about the secret underground indy combat training base.

  53. Hey Tony,

    There is no such thing as a Scientologist who is NOT an admitted liar… except for David Miscavige, of course.

    Then again… he’s not really a Scientologist, is he?.

  54. My point is that any beneficial effect – and yes, of course the style is sarcastic – is lost because it contains errors in style and substance, and also because it is addressed to the wrong audience.

    As for the idea that he is ‘one of us’. Bedman doesn’t speak for me, and neither do you, Palehorsey.

  55. Nice rant Bedman……you make my day!

  56. “When will David Miscavige and the OSA guys ever admit some kind of wrong doing?”

    Never. ……Remember….they aren’t wrong…… are! Don’t you see?

  57. Yup, LRH saw it. And so did JFK. This is a good sign that others are waking up.

  58. “One of you?” Im now one of you…. I never even made tennis squad or debate team……….I feel so loved, –

    and very excited to be a part of the group–

    Thanks PH

  59. “… Unlike many here, I still think that ultimately the only hammer that will work is the government; FBI, IRS, Justice, because only the government has the funds to really push this all the way in the legal system, but I think the catalyst will be reports such as we are seeing now.”

    I’m thinking the government is involved in sustaining them.

  60. They are just not wrong Tony. Thats a firm policy. Even if they use your credit card without your permission to buy 50 sets of Full Basics Packages and a case of Imported Scotch for Miscavige (Where does imported scotch come from, Scotland ?). If you mentioned it they would give back the card, but you would have to keep the congresses. Or, no- they would keep the card and instead of apologizing someone would say “Oh, yeah, I saw that..” (and then look at your like you are being nattery). Then they would pass your card on to Bridgette from the IAS who would call you up and accuse you of not being on board with Command Intention because it only had ten G’s left on it when she got it. The good news is, if you dont complain you will get a “commend”, so thats pretty sweet. I’m of course extrapolating based on the past.

  61. “bitter defrocked apostates”… you have to admit that’s kinda funny. 🙂

  62. K#1 — yes I knew what you meant, and of course that is totally logical.

    But he is anything but logical….

  63. Tony ~~
    Several posts on donkey Jim Lynch on Facebook Indies group, if you had read them all you would be more updated. These were posted days before your phone call….

  64. Whenever I see that term I think of unshaven men prouncing in white tutus \

  65. I’ve already said this earlier, but the Atlantic’s bigger problem became pulling the reader’s comments. The “wogs” would have taken care of Miscavige handily and The Atlantic wouldn’t have had to refund.

  66. Hi!

    No doubt some persons in the ‘government’ are under the influence, but I don’t think that will survive a real hard call for an investigation by others who are outraged by what they discover is really going on under the pretext of a ‘religion’. No matter ‘who’ it is, or ‘who’ they are, once the light gets turned on by public outrage and demand for investigation, those fools will cut their losses and run. I only hope the crashing edifice crashes down on them as well.

  67. One Point Won…thanks! I don’t care what anyone has badly to say about LRH..this little gem of tech has really helped me blow tremendous charge! Hee, hee, hee!

  68. Thanks Newcomer, now pass that joint to Archie and help him relax a little……

  69. Just for clarity sake Arch: Bed Man was not speaking for you or anyone else….those words i wrote above, were all from Miscaviage and his minions……..

    let me repeat that: NOT ONE WORD was Bed Man speaking for anyone……

    maybe you can find that marijuana cigarette I tried to give to Newcomer….

  70. I’ve wanted to believe all of that too Bob, but honestly, do you think it’s mass public opinion or mass media opinion?

  71. My standard response to the comments ‘this is just a rehash of teh same old lies blah blah blah” is that where a story is investigated by several people over time and the same issues are revealed it is called corroboration!

  72. Don’t underestimate the power of significance.

    “The pen is mightier than the sword” (Edward Bulwer-Lytton) and “Ideas and not battles mark the forward progress of mankind” (L. Ron Hubbard).

  73. Maybe I’m in a mood tonight, but some of these one liners are killing me… “donkey Jim.” 🙂

    I still like “flying monkeys” though too !

  74. Kudos to the James family who were stars in their own right on television tonight. Haydn was lucid and believable while Katrina won all of Americas hearts and will most likely stir all American mothers to start a new “MADD” which will be “Mothers Against David Miscaviage And Nazis”(MADMAN) while Lucy broke everyones hearts and will most likely also start a new movement of some sort. Bravo to the brave James gang. You will go down in history.
    ML Tom

  75. bob grant — I think the analogy with the former USSR is a good fit. There we had a totalitarian, thought-controlling, opaque, sole-source rule, closed society paranoid about the rest of the world.

    It seemed it was invulnerable for decades. But when it fell, it fell almost stunningly fast — glasnost (transparency) and perestroika (restructuring) and admission of long-lied about war crimes (WW II massacre of Polish officers and intelligentsia buried in mass graves in Katyn Forest) and so on.

    Why did it fall? Why did it fall fast? I think it fell due to a combination of internal and external pressures and a new sort of leadership that had emerged. I think it fell fast because revolutions (and not just the violent kind) are relatively punctuated, relatively rapid events that that do not have transitions so much as struggles between two competing paradigms — there is chaos and pain as the competing models oppose each other, but then one wins. The other fades. And at that inflection point, it happens fast.

    Right now Scientology has internal and external pressures, a new kind of leadership has emerged, and different paradigms are in conflict. One is the totalitarian closed society based on a good philosophy and tech that has been altered and misapplied to achieve the opposite of what it promises — the promise is freedom, the product is mental slavery. The opposing paradigm promotes honesty, disclosure, responsibility, and the insistence that what is good should be used in good ways to achieve freedom and not slavery.

    Which paradigm do we think will logically win?

  76. To take that “logic” of this one step further, if a person were to admit to lying, then they would be being more truthful, wouldn’t they? So then, theoretically, would an “admitted liar” still be a liar?
    I think that people are actually more concerned about “unadmitted liars”.
    Particularly serial liars.

  77. Tom — I second that emotion….

  78. And thank you also Anonymous. Even if in Guy Fawkes masks, people had to start standing up and speaking up.

  79. Exactly Tony. You, me, and everyone else (I can assume accurately) could attest to this very condition. So what happens after your hard earned 25 or 50 or 100 hours are admittedly mis-programmed? Uh, well… nothing. You did it, you earned it, it’s your case. Now YOU must pay to undo it. Pure insanity.

  80. Or, you can always just debit the unused balance to Bridge Publications!


  81. Wow… is this the Rock Center show? It’s still half an hour away here, now chomping at the bit.

  82. threefeetback

    The truth continues to trickle out as the dam continues to crumble.

  83. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    Well, no. For the really mucky jobs, they get someone disposable like Jim Lynch or Eugene Ingram.

  84. Thank you James family, Paul Haggis for your courage.
    Here is the full story on NBC:

  85. One of those who see

    Just watched the segment. Thank you so much to the James Family. Your courage is so appreciated. I am sure your heart felt testimony got through to the people watching. Lucy, thank you for letting the world know about the absolute horror of enforced disconnection. You had me in tears. Love you guys!

  86. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    JFK was the last actual U.S. President that we have had.

  87. Regular Dog formerly Underdog

    Very good job done by the James family and Paul Haggis.

  88. I want my frock back!!

  89. Just finished watching and I can echo your comments Tom. A little disappointed there wasn’t more, but what there was was real.

    Miscavige’s flying monkeys GPS are all displaying uncharted territory.

  90. Hey Chris,
    I’ve noticed that it gets easier as you go along. One thing I’ve noticed is that after being “out” I don’t have to mince words or try to filter my comm so that it is “acceptable” and I am not worried if what I say “reads on a meter”. I just say what is true to me and think or try to, while I am talking.
    One thing that still gets me is talking to a kool aide drinker. I mean they are already treading on thin ice mentally. It’s like I don’t want to upset them or go too far out reality with them and I don’t want to leave them trapped either. I am actually getting flatter on just confronting people being in whatever condition they are in and trying to help them with out taking it all too seriously.

  91. Or maybe your PTSness was so bad that you caused the C/S to mess up your program…. (joke)

  92. I third it. That was a great show!! The Haydns and Lawrence Wright and Paul Haggis blew it out of the ball park!!!

  93. Well done to everyone who contributed to that show! A little over 2 weeks into 2013 and the bitch slapping is impressive. More and more people are communicating the truth regarding Miscavige and the cult he runs. Miscavige is becoming a household name. He will be seated along side Jim Jones and Charles Manson in the minds of the public. There is no solution for Miscavige.
    His attempt to fake public acceptance using the Atlantic was comical. It COMPLETELY backfired and made him look like the incompetent dick that he is. The future for Miscavige is VERY predictable and it isn’t pretty.

  94. Interesting that the Church continues to explain whistle blowers as “bitter” while attesting they have never done anything wrong to anybody.
    It is borderline comedy at the point.

    Haydn and Lucy James and their daughter on television tonight SPILL sincerity, honesty, decency , compassion, and the best of human virtue.

    While David Miscavige is shown SCREAMING about the war with with the I.R.S. being won (on stage alone taking all the credit mind you, never bothering to thank the Sea Org Staff or public who helped). The squirrel busters got their five more minutes of fame.

    In the end, the “WOGS” are putting ethics in on the Sea Org.

    According to Hubbard, (And I agree)

    Executive Series 32

    Leadership – More about

    Taken from lecture #5901C04 of 4th January 1959 titles “Leadership”

    “We are in a space age and that age is being built at the sacrifice of the individual. On Earth today we alone can preserve the individual. There are several committees for civil rights and that sort of thing that try to fight against this incursion on individual liberty. ”

    ‘When you begin to sacrifice the individual for the good of the society, as has already happened here on Earth, you also sacrifice that which is best about the individual: his individual sense of good, his individual sense of responsibility for his own life and guiding it.

    When that individual no longer feels that he is responsible for his own life, when he is totally cared for by the state, when he is born in some part of a nursery and gets put on board a spaceship or in an army, and his indoctrination consists of some hynotic mumbo-jumbo, you’ve lost leadership.”


    The Sea Org is a government now and the Sea Org staff are “cared for” (if you can call it that) by that government. They are easily sacrificed and so is any Scientologist for the good of the Sea Org Society.

    And that kind of think is exactly the WHY for ALL of the out P.R. and “bitter” former employees, and customers.

    Hubbard knew this was wrong in 1959. It is 2013. They still aren’t getting it and I do not think they ever will.

    The people on television tonight, Paul Haggis, the James’, they got the memo. There is still a large Scientology population that thinks people should keep their mouth zipped about abuses for the good of the “Scientology society”. It is not true.

    It does nobody any good to inherit other people’s with holds of abuse against individuals. You only enable the suppression to spill off into other people’s lives.

  95. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    In Lawrence Wright’s book, he quotes the Riverside Sheriff’s Department as saying that in all the years, there is no record of a complaint of abuse from Int. Nothing reported by anyone of abuse by anyone on anyone. None. Int seems to have been a unique completely abuse free zone (ha).

    So there’s now documentation that if DM knew of raging abuse going on (by Suppressive People, not him), he never reported it to the civil authorities.

  96. Yo! Bedman in da house.

  97. Someone should make a Flash movie or something like that, a bunch of guys prancing in white tutus, perhaps wearing t-shirts that say “I am a bitter defrocked apostate” — you know, kind of like a CoS, Inc. version of the “dancing Judge Itos” during the OJ Simpson trial!

  98. I pre ordered “Going Clear” and rec’d an email today that it was shipped. This evening I looked on and it is already available there so, if you do not care to wait or want to listen to it through mp3 player or computer you can purchase at .

  99. There is a very visible contradiction about the “liars” and also about the “unprecedented expansion” which the Church of Scientology’s is blaring out. The claims “the Church is expanding” is more like an imploring mantra than a fact, easy to see through – despite the show of presenting some gaudy buildings and the repeated assertion of “unprecedented expansion”.

    There are so many EX-members meanwhile and there is a big list with over 2000 “Former Church of Scientology members who have spoken out”. This is a little bit more than only “a small group of bitter apostates”.
    Now, this then is the conundrum:
    IF there would be so many people lying, that would lead to the question: what is wrong with the Church of Scientology that it is attracting – or worse – producing so many hallucinating or lying people? (And – as Tony said – “are there MORE admitted liars still inside?”)
    Or consequentially: what is wrong with the Church of Scientology that so many people, and more and more, take a stand to speak out, after years and years of being devoted followers? That even besides the point of WHAT the people who speak out have to say; the WHAT being stories of betrayals, abuses, mind control and physical abuses even perpetrated by the leader itself – (
    The “Church” is caught in a faster and faster turning vortex. And every new denial from the Church’s “spokesperson” is accelerating it, as it causes more indignation about it.

  100. Absolutely. The James gang were calm, credible and had the sort of TRs that the Stepford Wives could only dream of. Well done Haydn, Lucy and Katrina.

    While on the subject – let’s hear it for Paul Haggis. “I was purposefully blind…” such searing honest eloquence. Although anyone that can conceive and produce a film such as “Crash” can do no wrong in my eyes…surely one of the greatest movies of all time.

  101. FOTF2012: I agree; however, let’s not forget that the KGB (of which there were LOTS) didn’t just go away or become wonderfully caring people just because the structure changed. They became the current business mafia extant in Russia today.

    Yes — you can have a business as an American in Russia IF you are willing to have it owned 51% by a Russian and IF when traveling to visit your company you have the money and foresight to hire bodyguards.

    POINT? dm may fall … but until those complicit with him inside and outside the church wake up to their own rigid mindset … the benefits of what LRH discovered will still be filtered through fixed mind and the actual help to mankind will not be forthcoming.

    Decompressing and opening up one’s ability to see as well as working on compassion (which needs to be PRACTICED) takes personal work and commitment.

    Compassion can be nurtured in many ways — it’s the wish that others not suffer. Amazingly, rather than killing a spider in your bathtub by running water — put it on paper and take it outside. Life, of all forms begins to have more meaning when you stop to care about a bug.

    And the people we know that we characterize as bugs … well … seriously they too suffer … if you can’t wish them well, then at least stop wishing them HARM.

    They will harm themselves sooner or later. No reason to mix up their karma with yours. And wishing harm to others DOES add negative karma to yourself.

    EXPOSING abuse is different. It’s actually kind as it eventually gets the abuser to justice and stops him from further negative actions.


  102. Thanks – and reminder (thanks Sara) to Brits – IT IS available in the UK – my copy is shipped according to

  103. I just watched the show on the NBC website. Great job by Paul Haggis and the James family.

  104. All I can say is that a teen girl crying on public television about what took place in the org is bad news for them. So bad that even if the org was innocent (which they aren’t) they would be in trouble. It’s all fun and games until children get hurt. I sense game over. If I was DM this might just be the night when I pack.

  105. Brilliant Oracle!!

  106. You are “responsible for your own condition.” Therefore, you have to pay to have the misprogramming repaired.
    All the screw ups around dm though were caused by those damn apostates.
    I once asked the DSA in my local church, if dm ever made a mistake. She couldn’t think of any.

  107. Lance Armstrong comes clean while David Miscavige issues reports od denial and accuses others of false reporting.

    This is getting kind of funny. Perhaps there is some therapy in a biking program.

  108. To Regular Dog: You’re absolutely right…JFK was the last REAL president. He wouldn’t play so they shot him …and then shot his brother when he was attempting to do the same thing.
    Also: NBC last night…kudos to all involved…it’s like advertizing…every “impression” leads to a lasting effect. Last night did necessary damage to McGarbage and friends. Take it apart brick by brick and it will all come down.

  109. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people still in Co$ who like the superman cult the way it is. They enjoy their status as the Theta Elite, better then everyone else, short-changing their employees, and living the big-wig life, getting the front seats for DM’s stellar event performances.

    Not everyone still IN are just innocent dupes. Some are, many cant confront the magnitude of the betreyal staring them in the face, but make no mistake: many of these “public” are willing participants.

  110. Link to Lucy and Hayden James interview is on MSN home page.

  111. Tom, for the record, the all-seeing eye was intended and used by initiatic groups as a representation of DIETY, not some big brother society as its commonly interpreted to mean and often used in current conspiracy stories. The Freemasonic leanings of those who put it on the dollar bill align it with the former. Unfortunately, it lends itself equally well to more sinister interpretations as government has grown beyond the initial vision of the founding fathers.

  112. For the record, we didn’t annouce anything because we were not sure anything was going to be shown — the church fought us tooth and nail for weeks and had us jumping throuigh hoops to support our claims in every possible way. As it was, most of what we shot ended up on the cutting room floor under pressure from the church. Example, I mentioned David Miscavige, Miscavige, Miscavige’s henchmen, Miscavige’s KGB and other assorted forms of his name 362 times in the interviews. Only one ended up being used in the program which overall, was a very small part of the story we told.

    We appreciate all your thanks and support.

    Sorry, I got to go now, got to get back to grinding that a axe the church claim I have … and dwell on my bitterness … and work to imrove my reliability …

  113. Yes, and Anons illustrated the diference between a manipulative mob, and an intelligent popular outrage focused on an attainable objective to restore freedom where freedom was threatened.

  114. Sounds like you just received your first installment! Well done. We’re with you.

  115. “And for the record I know the difference between the cult of scientology and the Scientology believers, which are like any microcosm of society – mostly good and ethical people.”

    Yes, they are just terribly ineffective in their PTS condition. The long standing viewpoint that Scientology is for the able has a new definition for me….able to seek and see the truth and think for ones self.

  116. After almost forty years of hearing criticism of Scientology, my thought is that
    the media has found another ‘higher gear’ with Paul Haggis and Lawrence Wright. Criticism of scientology has reached a high level of insight and compassion. Mr. Miscavige you are impermanent.

    George M. White

  117. Thank you Haydn (and your family) for being there and communicating. I have yet to see the video but will soon.

  118. @ bob grant
    “DM must have considered January last year a nightmare; I wonder what he is thinking of January this year?”

    Over at the underground bunker, we call it BAMuary 2013. We’ve been partying for two days now.

  119. Totally. The James family clearly represent a family morally and financially defrauded by their church leadership. I got the impression this would be clear both to Scns and to members of the society of other denominations.

  120. I 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th that, was absolutely the best show. Thank you Lucy for your show of emotion on the disconnection from your sisters, it was truly heartfelt. The entire James family really hit a home run in communicating the cruelty that goes on within the CofDM. The reporter at one point was just dumbfounded!

  121. Sounds typical of the Co$ ongoing campaign to attack and destroy all of the First Amendment, to throw itself all over Freedom of Speech, batter it, throw it to the ground, kick it, and throttle it until it is dead. Not to mention what it has done to Free Exercise – the poor thing is held prisoner in the Co$ “Hole”! And poor Establishment has been machined to pieces in the presses of copyrights and trademarks on a path to spiritual salvation – the full sanction and support of the US Government and legal system rest solidly over Establishment’s grave. What’s been done to the tax code, to the court system, and to individuals’ lives is a trivial matter, hardly worth mentioning, just pebbles on the road to the Greatest Good, and Freedom … for whom?

  122. I quite agree, Moonshot. Sadly, many still guzzle the Kool-Aid, while some pour it daily, and some drink then pour, while some even bathe in it, and so on ad nauseam…not to mention those who spew and drink from their own taps off David Miscreant’s projectile-vomit orifices! Hopefully, a percentage of these “some” will one day sober…

  123. Hayden,

    You and Lucy and your daughter were fantastic, even with all the editing. IMO, this was the best TV show on Corporate Scn. Continue to grind that axe all day long.

  124. I agree Tony, this was the best TV show so far. Karin’s (Dave’s) responses make them look extremely bad in the public eye as well.

  125. @ Rob Roy re: “he says the same damn thing.”
    I also believe that DM is penning the responses he makes under Pouw’s name. He also reads all the responses to these missives on internet sites.

    Notice that he has dropped “defrocked” and “apostates” due to the ridicule these words have garnered. He doesn’t like to be the target of our amusement. His latest gems are “huge ax to grind” and “these claims should be taken with an ‘enormous grain of salt’ “. We’ve had some fun over at the bunker with trying to visualize the molecular structure of an enormous grain of salt versus a regular grain of salt.

    The point is, it’s possible DM might run out of suitable phrases eventually that adequately describe the intense frustration he must be experiencing. Me? I can’t wait for the next communique! The entertainment factor is not to be missed.

  126. I saw an L. Ron Hubbard commercial on tv last night, very shortly after Rock Center. I guess that’s their idea of trying to out-create LOL. Good luck with that!

  127. Well said and I agree Christine!

    I’m reminded of a saying of Buddha (that I may have posted before): Hating someone is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

    I do sincerely not wish any harm to anyone, not even DM. Frankly, I find myself worrying a bit about people who are “in” right now. When besieged from all sides and from one’s inner demons, cults do not have a good history of good outcomes. So. May the transition to come not result in harm to the many good people who are “in.”

  128. How difficult it must be for Lucy and Hayden’s daughter to know that her Church pressured her mother to abort her, and then, in her teens, viewed her as a unwanted distraction and tried to force her parents to abandon her. How awful. This is unforgivable to treat a family in this way.

  129. Understood, Haydn. Still, the piece came out perfect, IMO. Thanks to you all.

  130. Tom Mike and Tony – I FORTH IT!
    That took some High Confront and I know it will have HUGE POSITIVE EFFECTS!

  131. Haydn, Your courage, Lucy’s courage, your family’s courage and dignity and integrity, are the stuff that myths and legends are born from. Anyone doubting the power available in Scientology methods need only to look at we who rise from these ashes with these supernatural abilities to remain whole. You are in favor with the Gods. I am beginning to wonder that it may not be possible to have a dance with Scientology, if you do not have access to music.

    The first view of a “security officer” policing a volunteer should have been a loud and clear signal to all. What “Church” has police inside to keep the “volunteers” in line?

    People knew this was a red flag in the 60’s.

    “step out of line the man come and take you away”

  132. Take DM in session and he rants and raves about the
    apostates, what they are doing, you calmly ask, “do you
    have a similar overt of your own?”. “Uh… they are
    squirreling Scientology!” “OK, have you ever squirreled
    Scientology?” “Uh… what are you talking about?” etc etc.
    I can just see it now, you might need a bouncer outside
    your auditing door.
    Actually, after having read Tom Martiniano’s book on
    his time in Vietnam (an incredible book, by the way) Tom
    would be the perfect auditor. This guy can literally kick
    ass and take names.

  133. Tom, Mike, Tony and Steve, I fifth that (e)motion!

  134. I remember reading where LRH wrote about handling the 3rd dynamic engram, complete, truthfull time place form and event. We’ve had enough third dynamic engrams in Scientology but this bit of tech has never been applied, that Ive witnessed. There is a sort of enforcement of it now happening outside the church, and rightfully so, someone had to do it. What is so disappointing to me, is that again, the tech was there and if applied with intelligence and a sense of humanity the name “Scientology” wouldnt be getting dragged thru the mud as it is doing.

  135. Yes, the organization has become all that LRH said that is bad about organizations: making the group more important than the individual has always been the culture of Scientology from the get go, even though ‘we’ were supposedly different. Just like PR: it isn’t supposed to be used for covering up, it is supposed to be used to promote the truth but the truth is that the church has always created a false image. Now the hypocricy is ‘straight up and verticle”

  136. HaHa LOL!!

  137. Yes +1 The family did a great job, and I had empahty for the daughter having to try and comfort a younger girl. The SO treatment of children is disgusting and they lie lie lie when they say that they follow child labour laws: they absolutely do not!! Furthermore, the teens do not get educated and the there isn’t any real life hatting. They are not supervised well and are just used. They are the biggest achilles heal that the church has, and I’m still surprised that there hasn’t been more attention on this. There has been some, but clearly not enough. I would love to see more media on the child violations!

  138. Who are you trying to kid? Really? Like the people on this blog have no R on what was presented. Yes, OT is great. but only truth and confront will keep it that way. Pleeeeeease!

  139. my comment was directed to 0TVIIIisGrrr8

  140. LMAO

  141. It’s all Marty’s fault!!! Did you see the email from OSA that Tony Ortega posted ( this afternoon.

    Couldn’t peg it directly on Marty, so they are demonizing you in general.

    What a childish response!

  142. Washington Post post review on “Going Clear.” Pretty punchy at the end.

    I mostly laughed all the way through the book. Absolutely hysterical. There wasn’t anything new for me that Marty hadn’t already uncovered and disclosed here on his blog. Except some names from way back.

    But I did get a picture of Hubbard making the best of a life, that I did not have before.

    I do not believe he was as serious as the others around him.

    And by the end of the book, I was more or less seeing David Miscavige as a Manuela Sanchez.


  143. It became obvious watching rock-center that if people don’t walk out the door of scientology inc. which they can do in america, they may keep their family and money contacts but continue to be PTS to an out ethics 3rd dynamic. The best thing they can do is leave loudly which will inspire others to leave.

  144. Richard Lloyd-Roberts

    Good show I thought. I wish that it could be shown why we stayed around for so long. There is an addictiveness that you cannot really explain to people. “the hope that things will improve” faith, belief, wins in auditing that act like a drug keeping you coming back and then the manipulation of that by staff to get you to comply. I’ll be willing to be interviewed these days. I have 15 years of stories to spill the beans on. AOLA, CC int, Flag, Hollywood.

  145. I don’t come to this blog often, but I can to swing by in the hope of seing you post here.

    Congratulations to all of you on your contribution to Rock Center: Katrina in particular. There she was, a young woman who was simply and honestly recalling horrible experiences perpetrated by the cult. Pure, unvarnished truth, only a true psychopath could remain unmoved.

    If the Kool Aid drinkers could summon up even a fraction of the honesty you did, they’d realise the trap they were in, and leave.

  146. I am able to think with the Miscavige incident as Inc lll. Perhaps if Marty ever publishes a memoir, that would be a good title! Inc lll. Laughter!

  147. Yes Stillgrace, I agree with the entertainment factor in all this 🙂
    But I tell you without this blog and Marty’s books I would be in a real mess case wish over all this. I truly feel for the wonderful crew that are still there pitching in with not a clue what is going on. The ones that do have a clue and are STILL there well….. shame on them. I hope they are saved from to much pain by doing the right thing soon.

  148. I suggest writing a blog of your own.

    If a news program wants to hear your story, it won’t matter if you’ve posted it already, and the more truth that gets out about the Church of MEST, the better.

    Who knows, your stories might help others, and well as yourself, find closure and healing…

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