OT VIII – Hallucinatory Cause?

Here is a reality check on where the Scientology Bridge leads, at least within corporate Scientology.   The following is a published ‘success story’ of a recently minted OT VIII.   With all you have read on Super Power and the Super Power building on this blog – use the search feature in the right hand column if you haven’t read much – please consider just how hard this OT VIII is working on creating delusory reality after expending God knows how many years and how much money attaining the supposed state of not having to continually do such.  Really take some time to think about this.

Don’t get me wrong, I feel for the guy.  But, look at what’s what here.  He’s apparently been listing incessantly why, after completing the highest pinnacle of the Scientology Bridge, he caved to ruthless regging not only for more rundowns (Super Power) but no doubt status-raising donations for completing the grounded space ship that is going to take the planet by storm (the $200 million plus Super Power building).

If it is even possible that a person could spend decades and hundreds of thousands to achieve the state of ’cause over matter, energy, space, time and life’ and wind up in such a delusory, perhaps even hallucinatory, state don’t you think it might behoove you to take a little time to evaluate this path against some standards not instilled along that path?


Dear Theta Buddies,

While trying to wrap my wits around a particular item  on the BC Level F checksheet, I decided this was a good time to see Rebecca, the word clearer. In the process of sorting out my confusion, I was reading a couple  of the pages from the transcript for the lecture I was listening to, and lo and  behold… I had a HUGE cognition on how Super Power was going to work!

This particular lecture is called “Routine 3A.” It was a modification to
the existing Clearing Procedure, Routine 3. But this theory behind this “little”
modification was the reason why thetans hold onto aberrations for eons:
counter-intentions; counter postulates. In other words, problems, created by
oneself, or other intentions agreed to by the thetan. What does this have to do
with Super Power? LRH had lectured in the mid 50s about how he didn’t really
know why it worked, but when a person who was having trouble with his spouse,
received problems processes auditing on the spouse, the spouse ceased to be
trouble. The EP of the modern day Suppressed Person rundown is that the terminal  antagonistic to the PC originates a friendly communication to the PC! The reason  for this is that when you have two terminals (or even the PC himself with a postulate/counter-postulate) with equal force holding a problem in place, when one side of the problem is unbalanced through auditing, there’s nothing (or much less) force to keep the problem in suspension. This results in the terminal(s) on the other end of the problem feeling compelled to communicate to the PC.
All of a sudden, I got how Super Power was going to work its magic for World
Clearing. Many of the rundowns on Super Power address third dynamic areas:
Ethics, Justice, Consequences, etc. Based on the above, I see how when one does
Super Power, he removes his side of the problem. The result should be, that “the
government” in the form of the individuals holding posts in it, will originate
to those who have completed the rundowns, asking for help! And this is how I see Super Power as “auditing the government”! Our solutions, with our National
Affairs Office right down the street from the White House, will replace the
false solutions the government has been using, with true solutions. Truth
as-ises lies. Entheta becomes theta.

The missing step has always been,  getting the government (PC) interested in its own case (the problems of the representatives themselves and the nation as a whole) and willing to talk to the auditor (Scientologists with the true solutions). Super Power IS that step!

Needless to say, I got WAY MORE from that word clearing cycle than
I expected!

I highly recommend you stop by ASHO (or any Qual Library  with a full set of BC tapes) and pull the binder numbered Lectures 77 – 88.  Pages 64-65 of the transcript is where LRH covers this piece of  technology.

The above also explains why ANY auditing, especially the NOTs  band, results in unbalancing the problem of theta vs entheta which has been going on for eons. Maybe that’s why LRH said it’s the faintest chance this universe has…


236 responses to “OT VIII – Hallucinatory Cause?

  1. My comment the other day applies here IMHO.
    the blind = government
    dimwitted = cult members

    “The result should be, that “the government” in the form of the individuals holding posts in it, will originate to those who have completed the rundowns, asking for help! And this is how I see Super Power as “auditing the government”! Our solutions, with our National Affairs Office right down the street from the White House, will replace the false solutions the government has been using, with true solutions.”

    And especially this part…”the government” in the form of the individuals holding posts in it, will originate to those who have completed the rundowns, asking for help!”

    …………………because everyone will be aware of just how wonderful the Radical Cult of $cientology really is!!!!!!

    Delusional!!!!!! OMG I’m just sure that is how it is going to go!!!!!!!LOL

  2. Marty,
    I think you need to drop the word ’cause’ from your blogpost caption.
    Hallucinatory says it like it is. I see no cause!!

  3. Hard to find the words. For a while he was making sense and it seemed like he was getting it. And then his brain let go in an effort to justify all the PR he has swallowed. Some mest work might help.

  4. So what’s going on here? Wouldn’t Expanded Grade 1 handle a lot of that? Aren’t the Grades run to EP on all flows? This sounds like another “must Have” before he “can Be”. All results will happen “in the future”. How about taking care of present time?

    What is he doing anyway, The Basics? Maybe he’ll blow halfway through the SHSBC lectures. Others have.

  5. If I was a Super Power Reg, I’d get to this guy IMMEDIATELY!!! Yeah, the White House is gonna go “in session” by talking to Scientologists who have the total truth on how to handle things. I cannot repeat enough, that if you are FULLY commited to a religion, you will swallow almost anything. I have sat at a table of mature and educated men at a Bible Study at a fundamentalist church who had absolutely no questions about the truth of the talking snake in the Garden of Eden. I have absolutely NO doubt that Scientologists on line will fully buy the story this person is telling.

  6. Perhaps the author of this ‘success’ story might need to apply “Scientology Zero” to the organization itself he identifies with.

  7. I think the subjective wins of Scientology (and the sancity of one’s own universe as LRH talks about in 8-8008) are as valuable as anything in the physical universe. At the same time, in discussing OBJECTIVE outcomes of Scientology, I have to say that LRH talked out of his ass from the very beginning. I now see that Ron’s claims for the Clear in DMSMH could not POSSIBLY have been true? How do I know? Easy, when you actually look at it. LRH said in his description of the Clear, that the Clear would be moral, ethical, rational, etc. So here’s the question on that. How could Ron have POSSIBLY known that? To make that statement in even a superficially scientific way, one would have had to sort of OBSERVE that person in life, right? And how long would you have to observe an individual in life to ascertain that he or she was making rational or moral or ethical decisions in life? A week? A year? Five years? Well, since DMSMH was published in May 1950 and went to the printers some time before that and was written in 1949, how could LRH have POSSIBLY kept track of any Clear’s decisions in life over ANY real span of time? In fact, we don’t really know if LRH produced any clears at ALL, do we? He never published any REAL data on this. His claims in DMSMH were just his POSTULATES, what he THOUGHT would happen (if he indeed really did). But he NEVER stated things this way, ALWAYS stated his claims as fact and certainties. Which is one of the things (or the main thing) that made his claims so intoxicating to his public. And eventually he would change his story and downgrade his claims (there ARE no real specific tech claims for the attributes of clear any more). So … will folks think getting Super Power will somehow reduce the entheta in the world and suddenly make the United States government better? No doubt they will. Why wouldn’t they?

  8. I feel for the guy, too. That’s his, life, his family, his wife, his livelihood, no doubt – all tied up in going nowhere. He seems to be winning, for now. But he, like so many others who went up the Bridge with little or no training, is about to start figuring things out. He’s just starting to dig into the tech, and if he keeps his words cleared up, it won’t be long…

    He’s going to read somewhere that LRH said that to bypass a floating needle in a Sec Check is “fatal.” That to do a confessional that didn’t come ab9out as a result of a reading Green Form item was once considered a subject for correction.

    He’s going to read that OTs should not be interrupted by any actions – including like, “Sec Checking” – and he just might let that come into his universe.

    What if he reads about the fact that –
    “The Catholic Church only began to fail when it began to exclude” ???

    He’s in for a host of surprises. In the words of the ED (Michael Roberts plays the role) in the Chaplain film, he’s – uh-oh – “FOUND POLICY!”

  9. Um…

    Reading that was like going to see the next door nieghbours on the right side of our house… By walking out of my door and turning left, walking around the planet, then knocking on their door.


    Here’s an idea.

    Instead of trying to be right about everything (and going round the bend in the process) try being wrong for once. You might find…

    “This results in the terminal(s) on the other end of the problem feeling compelled to communicate to the PC.”

    Sheesh… Yeah… I feel sorry for the guy too.

    Sort of.

  10. “Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.”
    ― Lao Tzu, Tao Teh Ching

  11. First off, I thought most of the Super Power rundowns dealt with perceptics, and now I find myself wondering just how the oiliness table and the gyro chair are going to fit in with Ethics and Justice.

    Second, if a problem occurs between two terminals holding it in place with equal force, I can see why the close balance of hard-line Republicans and Democrats in Congress has created such a political gridlock. What I can’t see is that this guy removing his own force from the equation after doing Super Power will unbalance the flows to such an extent that the vacuum will result in him being invited to Washington to help solve the Nation’s problems.

    Then again, perhaps I’m engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Not really sporting, I suppose.

  12. I found ML’s comment to be very sad and very depressing. This poor guy is twisting himself into the proberbial pretzel in an effort to justify the insanity.

  13. Hi Marty,
    I don’t get what is hallucinatory about this concept. I have experienced this phenomenon myself. After receiving auditing on several occasions people who had been more or less out of comm with me then originated or accepted high toned communication.
    I have also experienced this happening as a result of training. As a matter of fact, although I have never trained on delivery of the Suppressed Person Rundown, one day I was just reading some of the materials for my own curiosity in qual just to see how it worked. While doing so, I “imagined” how those principles might work regarding certain terminals in my own life. A short time later one of them originated a theta comm to me out of the blue. So I don’t think the concept is necessarily weird or hallucinatory. As a matter of fact it almost ties in with your previous post about healers who work their “magic” at a distance via spiritual connections.
    But as for his speculation about the 3rd and 4th dynamic results of “Super Power” processes being delivered to individuals, I see one big problem. The COS has gained a very deserved reputation for twisting LRH tech to its own money-grubbing purposes and as a result has been delivering altered Tech and sometimes even reverse Scientology and Dianetics processing, as you have pointed out on this blog.
    I cannot imagine Miscavige changing his stripes suddenly and giving the world Standard Tech. More likely, Mr. Knowbest has squirrelled Super Power too. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the release of Miscavige’s “Super Power” results in government ATTACKING the COS? IF he ever releases it. …Stranger things have happened.

  14. He (ML) is just one Scientology OT. How many OT’s are there in the world today? If all of the worlds OT’s were gathered together and made themselves and their lives available for ‘looking at’ for inspiration (which each would seemingly be proud to do) how many would be non-delusional?

    Not many I am afraid. Delusion appears to be the most common or shared EP of OT (certainly at the ‘upper’ levels) of DM’s corporate Scientology.

    We know what Scientology OT’s are not. They are not world class chess masters. They are not nuclear physicists making breakthroughs in physics. They are not individuals immune to the common cold. They are not beings that can knock peoples hats off at 40 paces. But what are they?

    They are the ML’s of the world. Delusional individuals living in a bubble of fantasy land whilst imagining they are literally the saviors of the world.

    What David Miscaviage has done to Scientology is criminal.


  15. Newcomer: Look at the bright side. If this a success story, imagine an O/W write up from this guy! 🙂 People like this introvert and sort of “skyrocket to case gain” on things like “endless out-ethics write-ups”. The person never finds the real why for what they are doing. Maybe somebody like this really does not want anybody to know. But I am not so lenient. If I found the real reason why I don’t belong in the Church of Scientology, anyone can, and if they don’t, “success stories” like this come about. 🙂 Fun, entertaining, educational and enlightening.

  16. If this guy is in mystery on Superpower after having had the carrot dangled in front of him for so many years by Scn Inc, he can simply google Superpower and read about what Dan has written and not “cognite” actually more like dub in things from his word clearing and figure figure:

  17. Good post Marty.
    Note that he states no gain or spiritual advancement for HIMSELF.
    His cog is that the Government can be the pc to the Church of Scientology ?
    In some ways I feel this Success story says absolutely NOTHING, yet postures as some hallucinatory cause. It is quite delusional.
    It reminded me of Jeff Hawkin’s great post a while back on “Leaving Scien tology” where Miscavige said one hundred and sixty-four words at one of his Ideal orgs fluff and froth Photo Ops saying absolutely NOTHING.

    “I am genuinely honored to join you on this day when Scientology comes of age in Seattle; not that you haven’t long maintained a presence in this town, not that you haven’t long ago sunk roots into this city, and not that you haven’t long carried the torch of this great Northwest, but only now is all the majesty and subtlety of booming this Church made manifest, because only now can we appreciate the deeper meaning of those campaign slogans which drove your new civilization builders to this moment: leading the way; delivering the future; taking Seattle to greater heights, only now is it clear those weren’t slogans at all, they were a prophecy, so while we’ve long marveled at your unbridled creativity and elaborate events, the many parts you’ve played, the many stages you’ve trod, and the myriad costumes you’ve donned, only now is it obvious when you were told giving your best, you took it to mean the best of the best.”

  18. I agree. He was doing well until he went into “MARKETING MODE” and “SUPERPOWER FSM-REG MODE”. He would be better off if he had just kept what he had learned from LRH about the principles being discussed instead of keying himself into the “CRUSH REG SUPERPOWER PROJECT” engram and going off into never-never-land speculations. But it was his success story. He is entitled to say what he said. And he did. 😦

  19. Jeeez….How complex. And I agree with Marty that the guy has been listing for “why” he’s letting super power hustlers take advantage of him. I sure as hell am glad I don’t have to read “success” stories like that anymore…and even happier that I don’t have to write them.

  20. There isn’t a thing in this universe that can argue against the theta-mest theory, except possibly this… !! [joke] That was insanely spinny – up and around the pole. Thanks Marty, I can’t think now… yeeesh. What a freak show. Oh yea I’m gonna jump right on that band wagon.

    Hopefully Source Mag will publish it.

  21. He definitely sounds like he is trying to solve something for himself with a very complex explanation.

  22. Marty, You got a typo in the last sentence of your post: “standards not intilled along that path”

  23. martyrathbun09


  24. Dear Theta Buddies,

    As a recently completed, New OT8, I was word-clearing the ingredients on the back of my soda pop can and I suddenly had this big cog!

    “I’m drinking poison!”

    And then it hit me……..if we poison all they psychs, we can clear up enough entheta to allow the whole planet to swarm into the Super Power building!!!

    I’m so glad to have given over seven million dollars to the true Mecca of Scientology because, let me tell ya…. we are gonna need that big of a building to handle all seven billion people who will be lined up outside the door!!! (Well….except all those starving people in 3rd world nations who really aren’t very sessionable or, shall we say……financially qualified).

    Much love,
    Mr. Distorted View with Blinders

  25. I’ve just read ML’s success story twice and my head is spinning. I feel sorry for this guy. His basic Theta-Mest premise is certainly valid, but he unfortunately has no clue that the COS’s reputation is in the toilet which would prevent any government officials from “reaching out” to Miscavige’s church for help and solutions. That said, they may have no problem “reaching out” for money.

  26. Aeolus,
    “What I can’t see is that this guy removing his own force from the equation after doing Super Power will unbalance the flows to such an extent that the vacuum will result in him being invited to Washington to help solve the Nation’s problems. ”

    It’s simply another OT VIII VFP ……………….he’s hallucinating………….again!

    I can say this from some level of direct experience being a BC grad and an OT VIII. I hope he snaps out of it. Let’s see……5,4,3,2,1…..WAKE THE FUCK UP BROTHER!!!

  27. Aeolus,
    I was speaking to the author of the success story BTW! Nice post.

  28. I think he’s hoping the success story will keep him out of another sec check for awhile!

  29. “They are not beings that can knock peoples hats off at 40 paces. But what are they?”

    Homeless, bankrupt and pissed!

  30. Now that is one MF sentence. Pardon me while I puke!

  31. Correction: The government officials would be “reaching out”, for real help and workable solutions not to the COS but to those Scientologists who have completed the Super Power Rundowns. Fine, now how will this comm line between our government and these terminals be established? Will all Super Power completions be sending their NonE formulas to the White House, Congress and the Senate – making themselves known as the ones with the real answers to national and world problems? Poor guy.

  32. This guy is a sad reflection of the state of the RCS.

    He is at the top of the Bridge, but knows that Miscavige has been promising the world that the “real solution to planetary clearing” is coming with Super Power (never mind that it was intended as a staff handling). It apparently supercedes the planetary clearing “solution” of 10,000 on Solo NOTs (which after more than 20 years hasnt been achieved).

    So, what’s a poor guy to do. The Truth Was Revealed to him and he knows that to deny that Super Power is in fact the ultimate answer would invalidate all the earlier things he was told were the ultimate answer. So, like the crowds that watched and cheered the naked emperor parade past in his birthday suit for fear of being labeled stupid, he, like the other sheeple that huddle in the crumbling walls of the RCS afraid to step outside, comes up with his own “explanation” for the insanity.

    And his “explanation” is a gem. This is really the secret plan to get the US Government to reach! Believe me, there are a lot of sheeple that will pat this guy on the back, acknowledge him for his “cognition” and then start telling others about “what Super Power really is about.” Pretty soon, it will be as real as the OT’s who audited the destruction of the Berlin Wall.

    This is what living in a bubble does to you. It distorts/destroys your ability to discern differences, similarities and identities. In other words, it makes you stupid.

    This IS stupidity exemplified.

    PS: My personal theory of what Miscavige’s Super Power is all about is that all the high tech stuff in there is intended to attract aliens — Dear Leader is sure they have PLENTY of disposable cash, so they can be “pulled in” if we build the most high tech, space age IDEAL building.

    PPS: I had a number of Super Power rundowns as part of the pilot. The Ethics Repair List will blow the RCS apart if Miscavige ever dares release it. Because everyone who actually got that rundown would realize the RCS is the biggest squirrel group on earth, now in the business of selling indulgences and status like the medieval Catholic Church.

  33. Its written in a big hurry, but reading it over very carefully, it can also be read as a back-handed (and carefully worded) slap at the Church to me. He’s basically saying that it is the Church itself that is preventing the use of the materials and is holding the miserable games conditions in place. In other words, it is their own failed ethics, justice and consequences that prevents world clearing. Its poorly worded, but that is the gist of it. And there is no doubt that the Church is in a very, very aberrated games condition with anyone not in the Church. After all, he is operating on the information that was given out in the Super Power briefing packs — here’s the main body of the info in the packs:

    In 1978, LRH wrote about Super Power in Ron’s Journal 30: “1978, The Year of Lightning New Fast Tech.” He called it:

    “A super fantastic, but confidential series of Rundowns that can be done on anyone whether Dianetic Clear or not that puts the person into fantastic shape unleashing the Super Power of a thetan… It consists of 12 separate high power rundowns which are brand new and enter realms of the tech never before approached.” – LRH

    This was the year that he researched and released New Era Dianetics and NED for OTs. He called Super Power the most major technical breakthrough of that year! Super Power first addresses barriers to a person’s ability to DO and to OPERATE, and handles these. Then the person is raised up to greater awareness of his environment. And finally it raises his competence level in his activities in life. Super Power raises the power of a thetan!

    LRH made a discovery about perception during his research of these rundowns. A being has 57 perceptions and each one of them has channels along which he can sense things. LRH found that difficulties along a particular sense channel can exist despite there being nothing wrong with the sense channel itself. On Super Power, drills exist which train a thetan to perceive along each of the 57 sense channels.

    Imagine doing a process that increases the ability to perceive magnetic fields, or the saline content of the body, or compass direction. How about having every one of the 57 sense channels open and operating and completely under one’s control? That’s just one of the 12 rundowns!

    During the early days of research into Super Power, LRH found a new phenomenon and said:

    “Apparently during the last decade, a new factor has entered into the culture that was previously only rare, possibly due to lowered educational standards or the declining nature of the culture itself, but most probably due to one of the common drugs or medications or even food deficiencies. A percentage which was only one or two seems to have jumped up to eighty or ninety.

    This factor is visible in a decline in the ability to tell identities, similarities and differences.

    The factor can be called ‘Disassociation’.” – LRH

    Disassociation from situations, present time and in life, is a severe barrier to a being’s ability and power. Think of a time you were trying to concentrate on something but were distracted. You didn’t get much done. Well, multiply that to the nth degree in all activities in life and you get an idea of the extreme this can go to. Not everyone by a long shot suffers from it to this degree, but it can be present in varying degrees, any of which is HANDLED on Super Power.

    These separate rundowns, audited in order, will take a thetan through the exact actions in sequence that he would use to perform effectively and dynamically on any post or job. It starts with handling a person’s ability to be fully in ethics on all dynamics, then it addresses and handles any reason why a person might be stuck at a low point on the tone scale, his ability to predict consequences, his ability to assimilate and use data, to make decisions, and to be at cause over what occurs in his life.

    Super Power was very appropriately named by LRH as it unleashes the true power of a thetan. Super Power does not replace the Grade Chart and can be run on any pc anywhere on the Grade Chart providing he is not in the middle of another major rundown and has handled any harmful effects of drugs, alcohol and medicine. The results are spectacular wherever the pc receives it.

    Right now Scientologists are in a unique position. Normally tech breakthroughs are put together, printed and released and then the public have the opportunity to come in and take the new service. This release is very different as one has the opportunity to be part of getting out the release of a brilliant piece of LRH tech which will make world clearing a reality in the not too distant future.

    It is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Be part of spearheading the way now!


    Ethics and Justice Repair Rundown
    Personal Revival Rundown
    Consequences Rundown
    Bright Think Rundown
    Study Rundown
    False Data and Loss Rundown (Part I)
    False Data Rundown (Part II)
    Cause Rundown.
    Power of Choice Rundown
    Perception Rundown
    Perception Drills
    Learning Drills
    Physical Universe Drills

    “Super Power…This is the means that puts Scientologists into a new realm of ability enabling them to create the New World. It puts World Clearing within reach in the future.” – LRH (Ron’s Journal 30)


    Releases the person from out ethics on all flows on all dynamics.

    Removes any reason for the thetan to remain at or below death on the tone scale.

    Unsticks the person from points of disassociation on the track.

    Puts him in shape to predict and build a future.

    Removes the causes of any inability to assimilate data and learn.

    Frees a person from a fundamental mechanism which pins him to false data.

    Straightens out his ability to think.

    Restores his power of choice over data, situations and activities.

    Heightens his cause level.

    Sharpens his perceptics and in many cases restores perceptics the person had thought to be lost or impaired or non existent. (Another breakthrough LRH made during the time he was researching Super Power was that a thetan can have missing or impaired perceptics stemming from reasons quite in addition to case and he developed a dynamite handling for this.)

    Orients the person to his activities in life, from the new viewpoint of having had all the gains from the earlier rundowns.


    Late in 1978, LRH had auditors brought in from all over to train on Super Power and this was the advent of the New World Corps.

    However, he found that the standards of the TRs and metering needed to deliver Super Power were lacking and from this need to make auditors with the presence and basic auditing skills to deliver Super Power, he researched this, which led to the developments resulting in the Key To Life Course which was followed by the Life Orientation Course.

    Super Power is the original tech breakthrough which led to all these other tech releases and now that these other courses (which represent steps needed to ensure proper training of Super Power auditors) are firmly in place, Super Power itself can be released.

  34. First impression this was too verbal tech-ish, and allowing this success to be widely published points to the Issue Authority (AVC or LRH Comm if this was locally given issue authority), this success story is blatantly faulty tech extrapolations being let go out widely. Wins shared in published mags and promo can’t be let go out if they have faulty tech extrapolations and verbal tech faulty conclusions in them.

    To me it shows ignorant or non existent LRH Comms who know better than let this success be widely publshed, and if AVC let this slip, then ditto for them.

    .And if DM was somehow the one who gave the okay on this win being okay to widely publish, then that says it all.

    And in all cases, it shows deterioration of the admin setup of why org LRH Comms and why AVC both have a duty as issue authorities to not let this type of wins go out encouraging wonky verbal tech extrapolations.

    ON the other hand, if there are sharp enough Scientologists in the field, allowed to freely debate tech issues in detail, then the field of well trained Scientologists would pick this guy’s success extrapolations to pieces, tech point by tech point.

    The biggest tech point I see wrong, is he presumes that people’s “charge” that they will deal with on the Superpower Rundowns , will have this reciprocal effect, in the same way that the Suppressed Person Rundown’s problems processes have.

    In a way, I think Briefing Course students should be allowed to debate, and in a more perfect trained field of Scientologists, there’d be even more thoughtful tech minds who’d pick this success to tech pieces.

  35. Maria — one thing of interest are the final two paragraphs. Try finding KTL or LOC in the RCS.

    now that these other courses (which represent steps needed to ensure proper training of Super Power auditors) are firmly in place, Super Power itself can be released.

    Miscavige basically cancelled KTL and LOC — saying the materials were not correct. But of course, like everything else, only HE can fix them and he is “too busy” (on his tanning bed….) to get around to this (or fixing the L’s or releasing the dictionary or the PRD or the non-existent OT IX and X). But of course, before that can be done, a redo of Objectives is in order. But before that, you HAVE to do the Basics. Oh, and the Purif…

    It is truly the Bridge to Total Spin In in the RCS. It’s why its so much easier for all concerned to just give money to the IAS and gain your status that way…..

  36. One of the reasons I left was because of people like this. To see most of the so-called clears and OTs floundering around in life was a major red flag. Of course when I raised that question, I’d get the same catch-all response to explain away the idiocy and failure; either “he’s out ethics” or “he’s got out-tech on his case.” I’d say this guy’s got both because he not only believes these lies, he’s selling them to the flock.

  37. That’s an interesting situation which I have seen in several new religious movements. Some people manage to reach the pinnacle of spiritual achievement in their movement or religion, but then they demonstrate what appears to be either surprising gaps in understanding or some major character flaw. This ebgs the question: what does this situation mean about this path? Is it flawed? Is the grading system flawed or biased? If yes, what should it be replaced by? Or is it just that these people do not match someone else’s ideas of what a spiritually accomplished person should look like? This is a tricky one, as, in matters of spirituality, what is cuckoo to one is sane to another. I remember reading a long time ago about the life of Saint Simeon the Holy Fool. Reportedly the saint asked the Lord to permit him to serve people in such a way that they should not acknowledge him. There, through simulating madness and upsetting conventional rules, he was able to bring many citizens to repentance, save many souls from sin and convert them to Christianity. Sometimes he pretended to have a limp, sometimes he jumped around, sometimes he dragged himself along on his buttocks, sometimes he stuck out his foot for someone running and tripped him. Other times when there was a new moon, he looked at the sky and fell down and thrashed about.
    Such playing the fool was subject to insults, abuse and beatings, which Simeon endured with patience. In spite of his seemingly strange behavior, Simeon the Holy Fool healed many possessed people by his prayer, fed the hungry, preached the Gospel, and helped needy citizens of the town. Many of Simeon’s saintly deeds were done secretly
    The only person in with whom Simeon did not play a fool, was deacon of the church, his friend John. One time Simeon saved John from execution when he was falsely convicted. Shortly before his death Simeon told John:
    I beg you, never disregard a single soul, especially when it happens to be a monk or a beggar. For Your Charity knows that His place is among the beggars, especially among the blind, people made as pure as the sun through their patience and distress. . . .Show love of your neighbor through almsgiving. For this virtue, above all, will help us on (the Day of Judgment). The saint died about 570 AD and was buried by the city poor in a place, where the homeless and strangers were buried. While the body of Saint Simeon were carried, several people heard a wondrous church choir. Only after his death the secret of his imitative foolishness came to light. Some inhabitants remembered his acts of kindness and reportedly strange and powerful miracles.

    I’m not saying this OVIII is a new Simeon the Holy Fool, but when it comes to matter of the soul, my experience is that one never knows where a person truly is at..

  38. Very true. I also notice that the Way to Happiness Rundown isn’t very “popular” in the RCS. Probably for the same reason that the precepts are blatantly violated. You just have to look at which rundowns have disappeared or somehow never get used.

    He’s having enough trouble herding those OTs around as it is — they are not quite so “obedient” as he would like everyone to think and when they decide they’ve had enough, and find out what’s been going on, they are pure HELL to deal with. They just don’t give up! Hell, they’ll even work for nothing and forgo the pleasures of riches in favor of protesting long and hard.

    He’s sure not going to offer rundowns that clean up all the bullshit they’ve been subjected to! Truth is, we’ve got lots and lots of them in the independent field now (and who knows how many lurking) and once they get a head of steam, look out, for they are trouble with a capital T for the likes of RCS.

  39. Great stuff as always Mike… and laughing out loud!

  40. Two Points:
    Point #1. Since individuals like myself are not very familiar with a significant amount of the terminology inherent in Scientology, it makes it difficult for us to comprehend some of the postings. This individual’s letter is a prime example of this difficulty. I realize that language and the precise use of words is extremely important in Scientology, which is one of the reasons Hubbard often created some terms, words & phrases. Often english words have multiple meanings or people use &/or interpret them incorrectly. If I also understand correctly, the are some concepts & entities in Scientology that are not represented well, or defined at all, by any words in the English language. Due to this problem, LRH had to create words, terms & phrases to ensure they was no misunderstanding.
    Since there are many of us who want to understand Scientology from a perspective other than the one offered by ‘corporate’ Scientology, we rely on blogs such as this one to give us that perspective. Since I also think it would benefit all of you to clearly demonstrate that there IS an alternative perspective in which to view Scientology, helping us understand posting like this one is mutually beneficial.
    It’s not enough to know that there is an alternative way (or ways) in which to understand Scientology, we must also comprehend the perspective(s). That being said, it benefits all of us to ensure we can communicate with each other clearly & accurately. In order to do this, peoplr like me need to learn the jargon and terminology inherent in Scientology. In order to do that, you need to help us whenever you can.
    Point #2. If I understand the author of that letter correctly (& I really hope I do understand him correctly) he thinks and/or believes the answer to America’s problems lies in the potential release of the Super Power. What I think I read was that when Miscavige finally releases Super Power, it will result in giving various Scientologists the power to finally solve the problems of the American government, (as individuals holding offices & as a whole). Well it couldn’t come at a better time! While all of you apostates are talking about how Miscavige ruined Scientology, he’s about to save America & possibly the world. Won’t you guys look like the fools when he’s named Times “Man of the Year”, wins a Nobel Peace Prize, is given a real US medal of Valor from Obama, heck, he might even get elected president! Here we are accusing him of committing physical, emotional, spiritual & psychological abuse on all those who’ve ever upset him & yet he is about to oversee the end of America’s problems. Again, this is only my interpretation, but I am going to go on record here & now & vow that when that happens, I will serve as his personal punching bag. Since it sounds like he has a bit of a anger management problem, instead of teaching him frustration tolerance, appropriate anger management techniques for adults &/or impulse control strategies, he can just yell, scream & slap me whenever he doesn’t get his way, gets his feelings hurt, is misunderstood &/or just plain has a bad day. Sometimes I like to illustrate the absurd, with the absurd.

  41. Here is another poor sod who is so severely out-list that he became a babbling lunatic. This is nothing a real list correction could not fix.

    I have seen those types. He is trying all the time to find “the item” because so many have been missed.

    Must be very uncomfortable to be him.

  42. I can tell you something OT VIII isn’t–it isn’t negativity about Scientology.

    Pat Krenik

  43. Oh. My. God.

    The sad thing is, this is almost right. I mean – imagine an organization that truly IS ethical, where its members truly ARE honorable, can learn quickly, do not lie or cheat, are competent, and, basically, have no case. And, who are active in helping people, and do so effectively with no quid pro quo PR maneuvering. I think such a group would truly stand out on this planet. No magic needed to change the world.

    The other sad thing is – this is crazy. “Super Power” may be a gas, but surely the Grades, Training, Clearing and OT also have a positive effect on people – surely, there is a reason to go up the bridge, to address and handle the bank, and to become more at peace and at cause with the world.

    As a side note – Man, I love the “R3” period of Scientology. This stuff is super powerful (pun intended). I studied this when I was doing Level 2, and of course, again on the BC, and man, that must have been something to live through. “Who or what would oppose a waterbuck.” Etc. Terms, Op Terms, GPMs, and 200-300 item lists.

    3D Crisscross was my first misunderstood in Scientology. My mom dropped it to me when I was 8 years old, and I thought what a great name! I dived deep into it when I was on Level 2 because I had the chance to finally clear this freaking word! Even the Blue on White paper this stuff was written up on held fascination for me.

    But I digress. This dude is doing the BC thing where the thing you are studying that night is the thing that will save the world. Next week, it will be OW, or R4SC – Ser Facs. Cleared cannibal indeed. Imagine making it all the way to OT VIII (so called) and not knowing a whit about what Scientology is.

  44. Exactly my thoughts.

  45. iamvalkov, that’s what I was thinking too — that’s a grades cognition. To be fair, there is an ascending spiral as well as a descending spiral and as one hits like points on the loop, cognitions are renewed on new levels.

    I agree with the success story to an extent. If power is the ability to hold a position, then I guess super-power could be the ability not to _have to_ hold a position at all — at least not a position that locks one into an intention-counter-intention problem relationship with another terminal (being, person).

    Naively, the writer thinks that this alone might change the government, if you can just get the government “in session” (double entendre intended). This is a naive view because until and if CoS Inc. reforms, not many government officials are going to be seeking Scientology answers to the problems of governance.

    CoS Inc. is currently very other-determined (a step below self-determined). It expends tremendous efforts and dollars in reacting to perceived threats and perceived enemies. It is not in power. It is not even self-determined. It has strayed from the common sense and rationality that of necessity must guide all endeavors that seek rationality. It is not in power. It is certainly not pan-determined (able to work both sides of the chessboard so to speak, while not needing to be vested in the outcome for either side). It is not in power.

    What the writer suggests, without saying so, is that Scientology could use the super power “cognition” to become a pan-determined player with the government. There’s a problem with that view. CoS Inc has assigned itself the wrong level. It is not in power. It is not in danger. It is much lower. On the tone scale it is often in fear, anger, covert hostility, and even sub-zero (below zero on the tone scale) zones of controlling bodies (the hole), punishing bodies (RPF), and so forth.

    Therefore the super power cognition cannot work for the 3-D (group dynamic) of CoS Inc because it is too out gradient. CoS cannot be a vehicle for truth as long as it lies. It cannot be a vehicle of ethics as long as it performs some unethical actions. And it surely cannot reach super power when it does not handle what it needs to handle to get into existence, out of danger, into affluence, etc.

    Okay, so that’s an analysis in Scn terms. In “wog” terms (I hate that word), the success story is BS in terms of its supposed impact on the government. It is out of touch with the real world and falls in the realm of what would be called magical thinking.

  46. … lost me on the “Dear Theta Buddies” part of it.

  47. Homeless, bankrupt and blaming themselves for not applying the tech properly is perhaps more like it.

  48. “You just have to look at which rundowns have disappeared or somehow never get used. ”
    Two other items lost that need to be added to this list are:
    The Primary Rundown
    OT 2.
    (see my review on Scientologyreviews on this for more data. http://www.scientologyreviews.com/auditing/200-ot-ii#jr_reviewUserSummaryMainTitle)

  49. Uh, well, actually, ML, Super Power grew out of a huge organizational engram from 1978. At the start of that year, a witch hunt for L1 R/Sers began throughout the Sea Org and hundreds of staff were ripped off their posts and RPFed. When LRH found out about it around late August, he began to take steps to rectify it, starting with the Ethics Repair List. He quickly added other rundowns, including the Bright Think Rundown, which was broadly released late in the year before being pulled back. The whole point of Super Power was to help staff members do their jobs better. It doesn’t have squat to do with auditing the White House or the Government. Those groups would only respond to Group Processing on the order of “Spot a banker who should be in jail. Thank you. Spot another banker who should be in jail, repetitive to EP.”

  50. “how will this comm line between our government and these terminals be established?”

    My god, he’s right. Super Power needs to be in Washington DC too! We need a building, a big one. Find a building that needs lots of renovation! We need funding for this most important project, the one that will halt the downward spiral and reverse the engines on the train heading straight down and vertical. All hands this is history in the making that will take us straight to the moon and back. Be one of the valiant ready to take a stand to fight by donating everything you have and more….

  51. It looks like this person is trying to fill a vacuum, something he has not understood. To help him I would look in the direction of: “What has not been understood?”, “What has not been handled?”, “What are you trying to solve?” etc. and put no stops on the willingness to confront what comes up as answers.

  52. Agreed on the ERL, Mike. Just reading that list blows locks and gets you line charging. Marty, I have a copy if you want to post it.

  53. It’s painful to read the justification; that “some next action” will handle a given problem. For this OT8 that next action will be Super Power. For lower bridge PCs that next action will perhaps be OT3.
    So it goes until the day you start to wake up slowly to find all your savings gone and you’re left as a raped soul.

  54. Great comment!
    Wonder how much time is spent on “explaining” the insanity? What a waste.

  55. He’s tripping. He thinks the government is his biggest problem. That’s the biggest outpoint. The government is his biggest problem, the government up at the Int Base. Oh they are going to reach out to him alright. To find out how this comm got onto the Internet so they can have a little blood letting next week. The MAA is going to get him through these right away:

    Perception Rundown
    Perception Drills

    And then polish him off with this:

    Consequences Rundown

  56. I actually enjoyed his cognitions re problems as they sort or rehabbed my wins from the KTL. However, he is delusional if he thinks that Super Power will ever be released, and that the church will be auditing the government. He’s aslo delusional if he thinks that Miscavige actually cares about Super Power being released.

    With Corporate Scientology PR at an all-time low, there is no way in hell that anyone in government or any politician is going to come anywhere near a cult with well-exposed crimes of fraud, abuse, extortion, kidnapping, etc. The possibility of Scientology helping the government via Super Power might have been conceivable 40 years ago, but now it is nothing more than a pipe dream. Clearly this individual lives in a big opaque floating bubble, as do most people who are still part of RCS. Anyone with any awareness has left a long time ago. Leave while you can still get out alive.

    That RTC-approved OT 8 certificate is not worth the paper it’s printed on. The problem isn’t so much with the actual levels he did, but lies more with the high probability that he had continual present-time problems his whole way up the bridge, compounded by constant compromises of his own reality and other violations of his code of honor just so that he could stay in good graces with RCS. This caused him to be out of valence and thus not able to as-is anything. Ergo, no case gain.

  57. dear marty ,friends and family reading this post,what im about to say is completly off topic,marty since finding your blog iv learned to look and read with out feeling bad,or entheata,when you dont look,and read other books,other then l.r.hfor 30 years, its very hard to get used it,but you.this blog helped me decompress,and for that i would like to thankyou for that ,my family has been saved from joining the sea org,im no type 3 but ill tell you i reach the bottom of the tone scale,and recarved using l.r.h tech.i belive l.r.h was a brillint man,and yes iv done my reserch on the internet.it deas not help having corporate scientology turning up at my door,saying quote,they dont now what to do with me,stalking me,and i now my confidentiality files have been
    culled,im beloved mother,is no longer with us was harrased,phoned on a daily basis,changed my mothers number 3 times,and still harrased.the sp policy is alive and well here in brisbane australia,iv been to my solicter for help,very confidant for an out come,then it stalled becourse his office was bought out,i spent a great deal of money,and tould to come and pick up my files becourse of conflict of interest,iv taken my files to anther law firm.the chaplan at brisbane did say to me if i take it legaly its going to cost me lots of money,if i dont go and route out ,and sigh my life away.corporate scientology
    has nothing that i want or offer me,and yet corprate sciontology wants me away from your sight,and other sights i visit,and want to control me.they can beat me money wise,but i will never go on my knees,and give up my human rights to this organisation corprate sciontology.no authority is going to tell me who and i canot see,thankyou,eric alexandrou,brisbane,australia.

  58. What I get from the SS of this guy is that he is in a figure-figure which indicates out list phenomena; but also he is looking for an answer to problems, the this, the that, the other- he Roller Coasters thus he is PTS. A standard C/S may tell you: “don´t blame the pc” and will star looking who mis audited this guy who, at OT VIII level, is on a figure-figure.
    It sure departs from what an Org product is – well aduited pcs. We could safely conclude that this person was severly mis audited: missed FNs, evaluation and invalidation big time and on and on goes the out tech… the “hallmark” of DM´s alter isses.

  59. If his button is ‘the government’, then what the hell is wrong with you guys invalidating his wins? He’s not parrot’ing groupthink – not all OTVIII’s are pestered by the US Imperialists and their mighty tools of crime (some are more worried about the French).

    Look, I think this is getting to the point where it is *clear* that the intention behind posts like this, is to degrade the tech. Acknowledging that you might find his point of view “weird” is only one way to stop doing this. Also coming to grip with the fact that not everyone is going to have the same wins on the Tech as ‘the mightily moved-on uppers’ would prefer.

    This is pure Cleared Cannibal’ism in effect. If it wasn’t Scientology Success Stories, it’d be Sports Team trade options, or Corporate Portfolio reports, instead ..

  60. martyrathbun09

    Dan, thanks; but I already posted it some time ago – one can use the search feature to find it.

  61. Basket case. Comical.

  62. I find it a little bit disconcerting in reading the comments to see that people who call themselves Scientologists find something funny about a person losing their mind. That’s what’s happened here, this man’s mind has been destroyed. I, personally, don’t find it funny at all. Would you laugh at the mentally/physically challenged? What about if an old lady fell down a staircase, would you laugh at her? I don’t see how reading the product of a destroyed mind is funny. I feel very bad for this person, my only hope for him is that the damage isn’t permanent and the process isn’t irreversible.

    I fear that the damage is permanent, though. The true EP of OT VIII is a MEST automaton. These people kill themselves.

    I don’t think LRH would find it very funny either.

  63. “If I was a Super Power Reg, I’d get to this guy IMMEDIATELY!!!”

    I hear they’re accepting applications – although “many are called, few are chosen” so get in quick before the rush.

  64. Pingback: What belief can do | Geir Isene

  65. The good news is, David Miscavige has announced all suppression from the Church on it’s current and former tourists be cancelled! He spent 8 million dollars to run a Super Bowl ad to ensure we all got his message!
    Here is the memo:

    To the curious. The inquisitive. The seekers of knowledge.
    To the ones who just wanna know.
    About life.
    About the universe. About yourself.
    Not cute questions.
    Big questions, ones that matter.
    To the rebels, the artists, the free thinkers and the innovators.
    Who care less about labels and more about truth.
    Who believe non-conformity is more than a bumper sticker.
    That knowledge is more than words on a page.
    You’re young.
    You’re old.
    You’re powerful beyond measure and the fuel of that power is not magic or mysticism, but knowledge.
    The things you see.
    The things you feel.
    The things you know to be true.
    Sure, some will doubt you.
    Let ’em.
    Dare to think for yourself.
    To look for yourself.
    To make up your own mind.
    Because in the eternal debate for answers, the one thing that’s true is what’s true for you.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2273062/Church-Scientology-pays-8-million-run-60-second-commercial-Super-Bowl-drawing-mockery-viewers.html#ixzz2M0MM224Z
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    Denouncing the magic and mysticism was a little wierd but hey, if he has to invalidate something and assert items on to the masses watching football what the heck. I heard through the grapevine he has just been diagnosed with Oniomania

  66. This is a Success Story?
    Holy Cat.
    What was the Win?
    “My bridge progress was not enough to handle the government”.
    “I am OT VIII now, but I am not cause over life (especially the government)”.

  67. Pingback: What belief can do | Geir Isene

  68. OTVIII – Hallucinatory Cause?
    Great title to this post. This OTVIII has a great deal more to say.
    Perhaps he and Miscavige can meet me for lunch in the
    new Thai restaurant which is located on Cleveland street around
    the corner from the Super Power building? I promise to listen.
    George M. White

    “Who could be jealous of wise masters
    Who lead men on by teaching truth?”
    Buddha Gotama

  69. Where is that success story from ?
    Because he says something about NOTs at the end , how come that is not being censored !
    I don’t want to read OT stuff here .
    I will just have to not read this blog anymore .

  70. Roger from Switzerland Thought

    My God !
    he should do the communication Course and there he could learn to go into communication with the Government, if he wants to help, or he could become active as a politician, but this needs confront and communication skills !

    My last encounter with an OT7 was, when I told him that we just got Flowers from a father whose Son was diagnosed with ADHD, and we with lots of communication could get the father to agree that he’ll not put him onto Ritalin and should change the Doctor, What he did !

    This OT told us then the story of a neighbor whose son is on Ritalin and who’s weird and crazy as a result. So we asked him what he did about it, his answer was:

    ” Nothing, I’m auditing on OT7 and I’m handling those problems on a global scale in my sessions !” and he doesn’t handle the tragedy going on next door to him !

    We were flabbergasted and didn’t know what to say !

  71. That success story must be from the squirrel church . It contains confidential NOTs information , its absolutely disgraceful . Whoever in the squirrel church allowed that to be published should be put in the Hole for ever .

  72. Maybe I’m just in a pissy mood this morning but if Marty had written that success story I suspect a bunch of you would be saying it’s one of the most insightful posts he’d ever put up. Sorry but from my vantage point it just seems this blog had turned into a shed of sheep.

  73. I assumed as much, but if you had been talking to me, no offense taken. We can all use a good wake-up call from time to time.

  74. This person shows his hope and dreams with his write up that FINALLY after all those years Scientology will be recognized by the society, the government and all are happy to have it and so there will be a cleared planet.
    He shows his hung up on the big mystery what Super Power is. He wants to understand it and of course get it.
    And he has a long way to go …… Somewhen in the future he will maybe see that we are all on one route to a goal we all feel deep inside it the right one for us all and it doesn’t matter which way we take to get there and that we don’t have to be against each other.
    …… Maybe he gets it this life, maybe not, that the answer lies in him and not in a rundown or in the society or in the government or in a special process …
    I like this guy. He has at least still this dream and not given up as being as so many others on this planet. I wish him good luck on his chosen way.

  75. Thank you FOT for the news. Thank you for being here. ‘Cause all you standing still ~ I have a place to land.
    And I will.

  76. Dan, your post explains a lot. Thank you.

  77. Kevin — yeah. I think you are just in a pissy mood this morning…. If Marty had written that, I guarantee the number of people even reading this blog would disintegrate. There is no lack of divergent viewpoints here IMO.

  78. Wow — you must have done a different NOTs than I did….

  79. Yeah, probably a good decision. This blog has made you crazy.

  80. Seriously? Or is this an attempt at humor?

  81. Spot on Silvia.

  82. John, I do not find it funny. Marty did not look like he found it funny. I believe most commenters here did not find it funny.

    I am actually finding it enraging. The guy must have spent half a million dollars. For that he received invalidations, evaluations, wrong indications, wrong conditions, etc. He is now clearly insane. Not a great exchange.

  83. This success story indicates a person who is figure-figure, out-list. I cannot see how Marty would have written it.

  84. From the style and language of this guy I recognize who he probably is. And whether it is him or not the guy I know typifies exactly the writers mentality. I have observed this guy for many years. He is a relatively competent person and as Marty suggested has spent years and hundreds of thousands on Scientology. He is a true acolyte and Pollyanna type. He is helpful to other relatively competent people. He is a classic example of the true believer who follows the rules, does not make waves and will in his lifetime accomplish achieving the pinnacle of mediocrity. He is a case of “OT is as OT says.” I doubt that he will do anything stellar in his lifetime but he truly thinks he will have reached full OT and because of this the world will change. He makes a good portion of his income off other scientologists and stays within the boundaries of the church world. If he was not in Scientology he may not have survived or he might have risen to a higher level of actually participating in some truly effective groups. But he represents the backbone of the church. Rising to a level of brilliant mediocrity, self absorbed, delusional but sounding almost credible. This is the product of the corporate church as Marty said. And I could not agree with him more.

  85. I feel for this guy….When you are brainwashed into thinking THIS is the only route ..you will do anything…spend anything….say anything and make excuses for every bit of crap you have to endure….Its fear that you will lose your eternity (the biggest lie in Scientology by the way) and that is some scary stuff….If this guy could just see the truth. Very sad indeed. 😦

  86. Larry, I whole heartedly agree. The truly OT people I know in Scn were that way before the got in. As an aside the persons initials are not ML. That stands for “much love”. Marty purposely left off his initials to protect his identity. I am 90% sure I know who the person is. If you notice there is a comma after ML.

  87. Spot on FOTF2012,
    Treason would be the highest possible current condition for the RC$ but it is more likely confusion ………………….or below. How about Delusion! Lets see, now what would that formula be…
    Maybe……………………’Find out IF you are.’

  88. martyrathbun09

    Bob, I think you do know who it is. At least you’ve given a very accurate description. Unfortunately, I could be wrong because that description fits a great many others similarly situated.

  89. Agreed. Pissed is way too high toned!

  90. ” I also notice that the Way to Happiness Rundown isn’t very “popular” in the RCS.”

    Neither is straight up HAPPINESS!

  91. Holy batshit batman! I think she’s lost it!

  92. Grasshopper (Mark P)

    That is an unlimited process!

  93. Doing the FEBC, one phenomenon I encountered which troubled me… was having the same cognition over and over, but from different points of view and times, of course. It made me wonder if I was doing something wrong.

    I later realized that “number of times over equals certainty and understanding (LRH)” and that I was building a conceptual understanding of the 3rd dynamic tech. By the end of it all, I was playing a piano, rather than doing rote A then B then C based on HCO PL thusandso.

    HOWEVER… that being said…
    From what I understand of the OT levels and reading this story above, I have to wonder if this person ever even EP’d the clay table on KTL??? Not to mention the processes and clay work on the Dynamics on the LOC.

    I read what he said. I get it. Why didn’t he get it before now? Maybe he’s starting to get to a point where outpoints will start to become apparent and he’ll cognite on his location and the personality traits around him?

    We can postulate and persist, I guess. 😉

  94. Hey Mike – I know there are plenty of divergent viewpoints and my hat is off to Marty for that but I stand by my statement. On the reverse side how about if DM wrote something along the line of yesterday’s faith healing entry? I suspect many loyal Indies would be all over that like white on rice.

  95. Dan: Why wasn’t it ever released “within weeks” as LRH wrote in an LRH ED around that time?

  96. Spot on. After all, how can we be unless we have?

  97. Dan,
    That was priceless!

  98. Fair comment!

  99. Tom, Great quote. How many of us ramble on in an attemtp to assert or convince ourselves of the rightness of our own positions. Another saying is that youth speaks quickly on little experience, and age speaks slowly on much. But I think Lao Tzu’s quote was more true and followed in his ancient times, when the teacher only imparted wisdom to the student. As important it is to not waste ones breath and time on those who are not earnestly seeking answers, I think the blog would indded be a very quiet place if wise men and women kept their knowingness to themselves. I think LRH made reference to wisdom being kept to oneself being no good, in what is greatness. But the quote contains a message for us thats worth keeping in mind.

  100. So right MR, Mike has been co-auditing the ERL for a few months and has been having good results, no longer thinks, dreams, nor ponders the RPF, the Comm Evs, deck work, etc, and addressed and released charge that would never have been addressed on SOLO Nots.

  101. Thanks. Of course the same messages can be delivered with different intentions. Perfect example is the Church’s “Human Rights” campaign. We all know why the Church has such a campaign – quite a different intention than the intention from a group like Amnesty International.

    Back to the current entry: How about we all “scan” some of the success stories we’ve all written pre-DM? Think there might be some “Hallucinatory Cause” in those? How about OT success stories from Advance Magazine back in the day?

    What ever happened to, “What is Greatness”?

  102. Pingback: OT VIII – Hallucinatory Cause? | 31 Factors

  103. Seriously. What part of “thou shalt not invalidate the PC” did you not understand in your mastery of the Auditors Hat? God-Almight, holy mother of winds borne free upon the waves, could you honestly tell me with a straight face that you would say the same thing TO this person as you currently feel ‘comfortable’ saying ABOUT the person?

    Mr. Rinder, where once my life was consumed by following *YOU* into battle, now I wish to make it clear: you have lost the plot if you do not understand the point.

    Certainly: MISCAVIGE AND HIS MINIONS MUST PAY FOR THEIR CRIMES. That would be the only fair, game.

    But Scientology works, and if you wish to make it less so, continue on your path of discovery.

    What an OTVIII says about the world is not, for example, the same sort of thing that “Mr. President” says about the world. To confuse this, in a culturally imperative context, is to indeed be Clear, Cannibal.

    No joke.

  104. OMG – the monitor needs cleaning of spit coffee after that!

  105. Sadly, I don’t think it is a joke. This is the same person who has defended fair game and disconnection in the past:


    . But I will tell you as an Auditor, strictly from that Hat: if you tell me I can’t use Disconnection when the PC needs it, or if Fair Game is discontinued without a suitable replacement that really allows *actual* suppression of the environment to be addressed, then I will tell you: No Deal.

  106. And thus Scientologists devolve into the endless pit of discovery and actuation that is the evaluation.

    Perhaps there is indeed something to be said of the balancing of the flows which occur when one party to the dialectic decides to change the condition, while the other need only suffer the fate of present time, un-acknowledged, in their own imperiled universe.

    But then again, maybe not. We can only watch this circus to find out, it seems ..

  107. LOL! So true!

  108. Fair comment? The day DM writes or says anything thought-provoking is the day Truffle, my hamster, leaps onto a bike to whizz down the road for a chicken tikka massala while whistling the Great Escape theme.

  109. Mike, I have subjective experience of how stupid it makes you. We should all test our IQs since breaking the ties.

  110. Roger from Switzerland Thought

    This is very interesting. LRH was quite ahead of Psychiatry which discovers this phenomena some years later and calls it Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder !!!!!!!!!!

    “Apparently during the last decade, a new factor has entered into the culture that was previously only rare, possibly due to lowered educational standards or the declining nature of the culture itself, but most probably due to one of the common drugs or medications or even food deficiencies. A percentage which was only one or two seems to have jumped up to eighty or ninety.

    This factor is visible in a decline in the ability to tell identities, similarities and differences.

    The factor can be called ‘Disassociation’.” – LRH

    It seems that ADHD is not an invention but a fact and the remedy offered by Psychiatry is wrong.
    Is sugar poisoning our minds ?

    Very interesting…..:)

  111. martyrathbun09

    To even consider the need for “listing” on an OT VIII further validates the basis for the concluding question of the original post.

  112. Kevin, I beg to differ. I for one would applaud Miscavige if he wrote a piece about faith healing. I stand ready to acknowledge ANY sensible act by Miscavige and hope he comes to his senses though I will not be holding my breath. I think part of the process is the gaining of a more balanced view and getting rid of any and all cultist think of whatever kind. I think huge strides are being made in that regard by many of those who frequent this blog. I think many, for example, still condemn Miscavige for his obvious role in creating the cult of Scientology but realize that most of us also played a key role as did L Ron Hubbard. I think we are observing different people at different stages of “the journey”.

  113. I have not done any NOTs . I have not had any auditing this life .

  114. Gerhard Waterkamp

    I found it hilarious. His success story basically was that he agreed with the lies he was told by the SuperPower Fraud team and he was happy about it. These guys are stewing in their own excretes and “have cognitions” only to validate their own manufactured BS. They are 3 miles removed from planet earth.
    What a shame. When you approach the tech with the intention to improve something real in your life or the life’s of people around you, you can actually go places.

  115. The idea that you are responsible foryour end of a problem is valid.


  116. He could have gotten all of that for free! On the Internet!

  117. I agree if DM were actually writing such from the heart but everything out of the Church seems calculated for some kind of PR agenda i.e. propaganda.

  118. +1 though my point isn’t really about DM. Substitute the name of any intelligent person who you generally don’t agree with and they could say the same as someone who you do generally agree with but you will receive the communication very differently. This happens all the time when talking to people who are very fixed on their political viewpoints. I could tell an Obama supporter that Romney said something that Obama actually said and they’d probably disagree with it. If the “Hallucinatory Cause” success story were signed by Mike Rinder I’ll bet many of the comments here would be different – not all – but many.

  119. i feel for him to, what i say to him,from the Buddha”Better than thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace”

  120. I should learn not to feed the trolls…. My bad. 🙂

  121. Great to hear Betsy.

  122. i did that super power 2 years ago, i had already done the LS,I enjoyed it, it was for stff to get some needed case gain and not taking a lot of time like the ls,is what i heard, i certainly wouldnt pay 4 million like feshback.

  123. LOL- Now there’s a cultural drive I can get behind.

  124. plainoldthetan

    Yeah. What I see is a guy spinning on why he “attained” OT8 then had to pay scads more money for Super Power. Now he’s trying to find a stable datum to stop his spinning.

    This “success story” also reveals to me how hallucinatory people get when they’re not operating on actual data (instead, relying on the church’s hallucinatory PR).

    If the guy had been briefed on LRH’s actually written intentions for Super Power which included making better staff members he wouldn’t have had this “cog”.

    If he realized that his next Bridge step was OT9 and not Super Power, he wouldn’t have had this cog.

    Seems to me the guy needs HC Outpoint-Pluspoint list done on his delusory cog. HCOB 28 August 1970RB says that “The HC lists are capable of strightening out someone’s thinking…”

    It also seems to me he bypassed something in SHSBC-043 (6108C15) where LRH said “The scale of knowingness goes from Not-Know to Pretended Know. Pretended Know dould be said to be a harmonic or delusory state of Know.” I wonder if he demo’d that?

  125. Kevin, trainees were brought in from all the St. Hills (Super Power would replace Power for Dn Clears) and when he checked their TRs, they stank. So, that led to work on TRs, which led to the World Out of Comm Eval, which led to Key to Life and Life Orientation. RTRC at the time was primarily one workhorse named Phoebe Mauerer (RIP) who could not keep up with all the other spin offs such as FDSing, ,CRMU Finding, Product Debug Checklists, etc., and so Super Power got filed in bankers boxes and kept front and center above her desk for the remainder of her life. (Phoebe passed away several months after LRH in 1986). Every note and dispatch and pilot report was ready for me to work on when Super Power was finally picked up in 1991 and completed in pilot form and then piloted as a total rundown on the first crew in Gold. 23 years after that first pilot the world is still waiting . . .
    Maybe I should recreate it as best I can from memory and release it to the independent field. The bulk of it already exists in already released LRH materials, e,g., the ERL and Bright Think Rd, FDSing, Study Green Form, R&W and Physical Universe Drills.

  126. ML = Much Love, used to sign a comm, like “Sincerely,” or “ARC,”. It’s used within Scn culture. Don’t know where it came from. LRH?

  127. Is a Clear, pre OT or OT hallucinating or not? How can he know. If the test would be to ask someone else then his reality would tell you right or wrong. What is evident for me is not neccessarily evident for another.
    I can tell you some examples how I test this in my life. I like to play roulette. A day I won the easy way I try to find out if it had been a) luck b) observing the future or c) controlling the game. I have no good answer for that. But if I dig further I can find out something about it. The days I loose are more interesting. I go to the table and want to play my game. I wait until the numbers are that way I need to start the game. Figured it out on the computer. I want to play black/red. And then 40 times in a row black. No fake here. So, I cannot start playing.
    Another real life negative sample. I want a women. Go to a disco. See one „prospect“ and want to talk to her. The instant I have this idea she turns around and leaves the scene. If this happens once or twice then this is by chance. But if this is the usual way, is this still chance?
    If this and other observations happen way beyond the usual odds then to think about that to be by chance would be hallucinating.
    In order to avoid this confusions one can go back into normal life with a job, money, real estate and stuff like that. Corporate Scientology did the same. Those on top went into this kind of confusion. Now they do job, money, real estate, status.
    To be honest, I also do job and money as my way to avoid confusions. But I know that one day I have to confront this stuff again to cross the border between matter and OT.

  128. It’s interesting that this guy is having huge cognitions about Super Power. Perhaps they won’t ever have to release it. People will just have amazing cognitions by donating money towards Super Power and that will be all that is needed.

  129. You’re right, the common theme is window dressing, nothing really substantial. The Church where donating towards a thing has replaced the thing itself. Members even have cognitions and wins about what Super Power represents without it ever being released or put into practical use.

  130. Oooh yes Dan! How exciting! Do recreate it!

  131. Good article Marty.
    My comment is “The Proof is in the Pudding”
    P.T. Barnum the legendary showman wrote about a man who was evicted by poice from his one room apartment in the low rent area of London for non payment of rent. What was noted was that in his coat pocket was a written report by him on how England could pay its National Debt in practically no time very easily.

  132. typo:Police

  133. Kevin, I see that you don’t like Marty’s post. His post has been helping me today since I first read it. It has served as a “reality check” for me as Marty suggested which is one of the reasons I even come to this blog. I’m in a stage where I am still coming to terms with not pursuing corporate OT levels and having a church life. Yet I still wish to pursue valid gains I’ve seen many get from OTV through OTVIII which are next for me. The “success” story posted to me is a good example of how not to live. It helps me evaluate my own life.

  134. One of those who see

    Someone just posted a great quote by George Orwell on facebook.

    “I always disagree … when people end up saying that we can only combat Communism, Fascism or what not if we develop an equal fanaticism. It appears to me that one defeats the fanatic precisely by not being a fanatic oneself, but on the contrary by using one’s intelligence.”

    Another answer to What went wrong with the Church of Scientology and what we can get right in the Independent Field.

    George Orwell

  135. He is not a P.C. stating a success from auditing Gern. He is talking about suppression . He is itsaing about suppression . And what he assumes may be the results of Super Power auditing. He is delivering a sermon about word clearing, suppression, and what he assumes Super Power will make him able to do. When a person publishes such theories and summaries, he is asserting items. If he gives people wrong items and wrong indications, they will be rejected (hopefully). That is natural.

  136. Well said! As usual. Your sensibilities are always refreshing!

  137. Shame on you for blasphemy against sheep! Sheep are biblical creatures.
    Entire civilizations have evolved around the ass of the sheep. Stop A=Aing on all sheep! And on all visitors of Marty’s blog!

  138. Interesting post Roger!

  139. I reject his indication that we are all hallucinatory effect.

  140. I’d say he’s takin’ the long way home.

  141. I reject your indication that I am hallucinatory effect,

  142. Thanks Bob, my bad. Lol. I appreciate the tip. I’ll look a little closer henceforth. Larry

  143. Silvia,

    Exactly my thoughts. You are right on the money on this one.

  144. I hope the poor guy was off the ship before this went public. If you haven’t been thru it, the cycle after finishing VIII is as unbelievable as most of the rest of what we hear and read. I’ve seen people go from the thrill of victory to the agony of defeat within hours after completing VIII. There is hardly time to call your spouse before the regging for donations and the harsh recruiting begins. And then there is the leaving sec check. Try writing your graduation speech in the midst of all that. It can turn the best of us into blubbering idiots.

  145. I think you all have been a bit unfair.
    You see, we OT VIIIs of the world, have transcended reality as you little people know it. We, OT VIIIs of the world, have gained the ability to talk out of our asses and we receive much admiration for it. We, OT VIIIs of the world, are living examples of what is like to live inside an ever shrinking bubble. We, like all greats in History, are often misunderstood and criticized. But nevertheless… we are the IAS!
    I have spoken.
    You can clap now.

  146. Mike, I absolutely love the way you see things and write them down.
    When I grow up I want to be like you.

  147. Tom Gallagher the Irish

    Dan Koon wrote:

    “The whole point of Super Power was to help staff members do their jobs better. It doesn’t have squat to do with auditing the White House or the Government. Those groups would only respond to Group Processing on the order of “Spot a banker who should be in jail. Thank you. Spot another banker who should be in jail, repetitive to EP.”

    I utterly agree because that’s the eternal problem whereby they, the bankers (money changers), create the existential problems and of course their own continuing [fucked-up] solutions (war and genocide).

    Leave it to the Irish to put it all to song………..

  148. Larry: David Miscavige, aside from being a criminal, he’s such a pushover (I am laughing as I write this). 🙂 Here is what I think most people will like to say to David Miscavige since he joined the “I Want To Go Clear Club”.

    “Hey David, ladies go Clear before gentlemen, so I guess you get to go first!”


  149. Any parent with a modicum of common sense is very very careful about about gets fed into little bodies. It’s patently obvious that artificial additives and sugar have a very detrimental effect on their behaviour. I wonder how many ADHD cases there would be if all processed sugars and additives were banned in all foods for under-5s.

  150. theosismanides

    Well said FOT, thanks.

  151. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!
    Well said Luis 🙂 !!!!!

  152. Hellafunny read.Thanks for brightening up my evening. Pass the kool-aid will ye. LMAO. 🙂

  153. OOPS, I left out the CLAPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  154. The sanity of a standard tech terminal speaks truth.

  155. Luis, I am not OT VIII, and I talk out of my ass all the time. After all, in a democracy, anybody can say whatever they want out of where ever they want.


  156. Where do you get a suppressive 19 years old MAA on the Internet? No, you have to pay for that.

  157. You are an amazing wealth of info. I hereby christen you, “Sciopedia”.

  158. Random posting: I have one of those New Yorker Magazine desk calendars with daily cartoons. Today’s entry was of Jesus standing before a couple dozen of his followers. The caption: “If you believe in me, divide into sects, and kill and hurt as many from the other sects as you possibly can.”


  159. Roger, what can anybody say or SHOULD anybody say not might? It is like reporting a murder to the police and an officer at the desk says that he’s going to go out and plant some flowers in the hope that the criminal you reported notices there is true beauty in the world that must not to be harmed.

  160. I hear you, and my wife went through that. All I can say is back in 2004 it wasn’t that way, whew!

  161. Marty is probably right about this OTs success story but something rubs me the wrong way as each one of us has probably written something along those lines at one time or another. We can all stipulate that there is a “group think” in the Church that is very unhealthy. We also know the mind will always try to make sense out of illogic which is what I guess this OT is doing. I guess it comes down to the fact that I think that 80% or more of “still in” Scientologists are some of the best people around and I don’t like seeing anyone singled out in this way.

  162. Dan, yes, please!!!!!!

  163. That would be the better process – “Bend over, B of A and RBS”

  164. yes indeed. And yet, the doctors still call it a “myth.” It ain’t a myth when my boy goes bonkers after having a maraschino cherry.

  165. One of those who see

    Perfect!!! Love you Luis!

  166. Concerning Super Power, our OTVIII here has either very little real data or false data or both. He had a word clearing win and felt brite and good, and he made his own postulate about Super Power, based on general PR data and possibly (I’m guessing) some “inside” data from a few trumped up “special, confidential briefings for OTs only” . He’s trying to THINK with Super Power but he actually can’t. And more importantly, he doesn’t know he can’t. Now, if he KNEW that he couldn’t think with it due to lack of data or whatever outpoint, then he’d be OK, but the problem is that he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know, so he just dubs in and calls it his cognition. And that’s why we feel badly for him. That’s why Marty posted this. The OTVIII very possibly got some standard Word Clearing and felt good. Unfortunately, this clarity and briteness probably won’t last long, as he’s got a big MU on Super Power and invented definitions for its uses.

  167. And, I should add that these MUs are unlikely to ever even be spotted as such, let alone cleared up for him. Totally a shame. Thank you, Marty, for posting this. I get it.

  168. Emotional attachment to an ideology gives rise to an appearance of reality. Belonging to a group whech reinforces that attachment cements it even harder into the core of a persons psyche.

    If you tell little girl dressed up like a little princes that she is a real princes she will smile and like you. If you say, “little girl, you are not a real princes, she may start crying.”

    Cult belief systems instill in a persons mind unrealities as real. And when the person goes into agreement with those unreal realities anyone who questions the truth of them may get a crying little girl, or an osa agent, of a declare.

    Trust no one or no ideology but the truth found within yourself through meditation, self analysis, self looking (auditing).

    And even then hold your truth to the flame of relentless scrutiny. It is very easy to be fooled when unrealities appear as real. Truth always welcomes construtive doubt and scrutiny. Because truth is either verified with reasoned scrutiny or that truth is seen as untrue through reasoned scrutiny and surrendered to the flame of reason.

    And if the goal is truth, attachment to unrealities will be threatened.

    A man or women of truth is constantly holding truth to the fire and may balk from time to time on letting go of yet another emotionally attached unreality.

    But the seeker of truth has learned the joys of transmutation, and looks forward to those uncomfortable times of letting go of something that seemed so…………………………real

  169. Luis, agreed, Rinder finds a way! Gerhard, perhaps they are merely 3ft back of their Exclusive Ecclesiastical of the Highest Order ever in the existence of mankind Leader, The Pope of Scientology, and by orders of magnitude from far above intend to make everyone know it is their own… something.

  170. Thank you! 🙂

  171. Kevin, That is morbid or I’m so literate I have the reverse pictures. But I should be able to experience anything. Workin on it!
    The Cece that put your kid to work for months ~ what a very very special kid you have.

  172. ML began to be used PROLIFICLY by church staff and SO, and then later by OT Ambassadors, and then the public at large when COB sent a bunch of letters to the Flag Land Base and Outer Org Trainees in the mid-nineties, with the “ML” closing. I had never seen it before then. Then, a decade later, he periodically started using just “L” instead of “ML” and all the CMO synchophants followed suit, and soon that was all the rage too. Just more ways to snap terminals with the winning personality.

  173. I’m surprised DM hasn’t declared Dan Sherman for making him sound like such a fancy-boy ass-clown at these events. He MUST know that all he repetitive ridiculous phraseology and metaphors come across so garish and pretentious.

  174. Wow, I would love to hear the whole story. Like, where did you get it and from who and what they were running.

  175. Laughter! I’ve missed you!

  176. Good one Robert. Your vision is huge.

  177. I meant, Roger. Sorry……

  178. Kevin…and this is sequitur how?

  179. PreferToBeAnon2

    Eric, I am not a Sciontologist, but I do empathize with what you and your family are going through. The pain and frustration must be overwhelming. Kudos for keeping your integrity! Glad that you and your family have avoided the SO and you are decompressing. Keep on! Perhaps some of the folks here might point to some resources or good links that can help. Hang in there!

  180. I’m pretty sure they can be attracted with the right bait.

  181. Anything I say that you can’t agree with, or find some way to understand = trolling. I get it.

  182. Of course, if a person is ACTUALLY an Operating Thetan VIII, with all the ability that implies, to say nothing of having earlier attested to the Professional TRs Course, they should have no trouble at all handling regges/recruiters, right, with no accompanying restim of case, right?

  183. This succes story is an exercise in reasonableness.
    The guy has a real cog that he can blow charge on someone universe and it will blow ridge in the physical universe and change reality. Well is that hallucinatory cause? If it is,the whole subject of OT is also.
    Now, he is propitiating with DM plans like superpower business, he has to make things fit.
    Maybe his original thought is that something is wrong with superpower, but he use “his theta” from his cog to bring an explonation to the outpoint.
    We have been all doing that. Actually want to see “signs” in the physical universe of the rightness of our action.
    An OT in RCS must be an expert in not is ness, not see what’s happening. He must graduate on reasonableness, ability to explain outpoints, alter reality, stop thought and so on.
    After a while the state and accuracy of perception is altered and he will use his gain and cog to postulate Miscavige reality.
    But this is common reasonableness on any group. If you have a political leader it’s the same.

  184. ML started being used in telexes from Flag. Telex time was expensive and we had to compress our comminications to the minum number of letters possible. I know because I used to send telexes frequently and I remember on occasion being corrected by telex operators if I hadn’t abbreviated enough. I can’t remember many of the abbreviations used but I remember using TKU (thank you) alot. It was the same as sending texts today. So instead of “Much Love” (9 strokes) it became ML (2 strokes). I’m sure others here will remember.


    Alex :))

  185. I think perhaps the newly minted OT VIII is more prescient than he’s been given credit here. At some point after the Uncle Sam collective reaches to the C of M, it will get declared as a suppressive group for any of the myriad arbitrary reasons, forcing such officials into the Indie field where they as individuals may cognite on how working for the exclusive interests of international banksters has so severely squirreled what our Founding Fathers originally established and perverted it into such a Keynesian fascist empire that internal pressure for radical reforms reaches Icelandic proportions to the point where they actually repeal the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Acts and kick the bums out. Uncle Sam could then attest to his PTS Rundown. 😉

  186. I must defer to Jim Logan on that one. I spent about 13 years in RTRC, so I know the history of that fairly well, though. 1978 and 79 were pretty rocking years for tech developments. LRH was on a roll. None of it, however, except NOTs supercedes anything on the Grade Chart, despite what Mr. Moneygrab will promote if and when Super Power is ever released.

  187. Is this really that shocking? Not that long ago, upon hearing such a “win”, I would have stopped and contemplated his mental gyrations with wonder. Scnists are predisposed to believing in fantastic things. Since the inception of Scn, LRH has made fantasic claims about what Scn can do and what thetans are capable of. Much of this is simply taken on-board without inspection. I’m not saying what he said was false or untrue, just simply unverified by the individual and adopted as fact.

    In this vein we have such things like: 10,000 Solo NOTS auditors are going to save the world. Yes, 10,000 Scnists will collectively tip the global theta/entheta scale and usher in a new age on planet Earth. Fortunately, this bit of lunacy cannot be attributed to LRH, but is solely a RCS invention.

    When you favor trust over observation and inspection you at once become prone to manipulation. We’ve all done it. I prefer to think of LRH as a respected source of information and I seriously consider his data, but will find out for myself.

    Once the corporate Scnist adopts “listen, don’t look” you can sell them the most fanciful, wildest schemes. In an effort to “think with the data”, they will begin to weave real LRH data into it in an attempt to rationalize – and then call it a cognition or a win! This rationalization gives the scheme credibility, since LRH and Scn is a trusted source; even to the point where people will begin to think it originated with LRH!

  188. So true, and THAT is the real reason that his original papers were rejected by the medical/psychiatric community. There was no proof, nor any hint of evidence of those claims occurring. Had he conducted even a small well executed research project, he may at least been able to publish his paper in the New England Journal of Medicine if he could have convinced one professional to do it for him. As a layman his opinion didn’t mean anything, but he never would have let someone else get in on his gig anyway. He wasn’t a collaborative kind of guy.

  189. Wow, this is probably the first time I have ever been disgusted by so many comments. I usually appreciate the respect and high level of theta,and even if the subject is not theta, that is fine too if it is useful.
    My 2 cents for tonight is … Really folks?

    What was the purpose of the post, to prove that OTs who are made in the church are just blind dumb asses? You want to make the guy the poster child for ‘stupid OT 8 cogs”.
    You want to go attack a cog? Oh, well he is in the church so that means the originator is an enemy so he’s an automatic op term so its okay. Do we have to evaluate his life whole life based on a cog? Does anyone know him up close and personal? And even if you do, then why the inval and eval? What are the standards for an OT8? Does he not meet your standards? Then why not just tell him what his cog should be? And better yet, tell him he isn’t really OT because YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE OT 8 AND HE AIN’T IT. Really, what nerve. Echos of an OSA blog.
    I’m out.

  190. Roger from Switzerland Thought


  191. Roger from Switzerland Thought


  192. Yes he is.

  193. In random kind of way. 🙂

  194. I found it funny. If I can laugh at myself, I can laugh at others. When we take ourselves and others too seriously we get bogged. You think I have a problem that this guy is crazy? No protest read from me. It only validates my own perceptions that you can’t buy enlightenment. It is earned through good deeds and good intentions.

  195. Is there any wonder we hit a brick wall when trying to talk to RCS?

    Actually banging my head against a brick wall would be less frustrating. At least with a brick wall I know I can’t win. With a RCS, I tend to always hold out some hope — and of course, it’s pointless.

  196. I can understand someone getting a sec check before getting to do an OT level.
    But why get one when you’re leaving?

  197. Hi Jewel,

    I agree with much of what you say. I do not know this individual. I can only comment on the content of his/her success story. Like many success stories, they can be very personal and very subjective, and in some cases poorly written and hard to understand.

    That said, my opinion of this individuals conclusions are not based on case levels, or training level for that matter. Organizationally, RCS has this thing they are touting called Super Power (based on the works of LRH). I think everyone will agree that it has been a cash cow for the church. Many claims are bantered about, like “world clearing”, “transforming governments”. In effect, Super Power has been pitched as the thing which is going solve everything and save the planet. To me, all of this is just talk. No one ever explains exactly how this is going to come about.

    What I think is an interesting phenomena, is the rationalized thought required to somehow make these hyped claims valid and real, or even technically valid.

    This individual is on his own path and is actively pursuing that, I hope that works out for him. Though I hope he spends more time looking, rather than listening.

  198. Hallucinatory Cause? Let’s not forget this little gem from History of Man:

    “…may I make this simple request? Don’t get spectacular until a few of the boys make it. You don’t want to be lonesome and you’ll need reinforcements if a war gets declared on thetans here. The preclear may think he can do it alone if he gets cleared of a body he’ll need more help and company than he thinks. So, again, as a final note on this chapter, let’s not go upsetting governments and putting on a show to ‘prove’ anything to homo sapiens for a while; it’s a horrible temptation to knock off hats at fifty yards and read books a couple of countries away and get into the rotogravure section and the Hearst Weeklies but you’ll just make it tough on somebody else who is trying to get across this bridge. Let sleeping sapiens snore in the bulk for yet awhile. Then meet some place and decide what to do about him and his two penny wars, his insane and his prisons. Tell people who want to invalidate all this, ‘Your criticism is very just. It’s only fantasy.’ Cure up the lame and halt and the incompetent with whatever display of technique you need. Protect theta clearing until there are a few.”

  199. LMAO! More of Hubbard’s babbling and lying. NO ONE is able to “knock off hats at fifty yards and read books a couple of countries away”.

    I guess you’ve been out of the loop for a few decades.

  200. Hi Chuck and Marty
    In my opinion, this kind of delusional ” OT win” is not entirely new, as you may probably remember from our old days at the FLB in the mid 70’s. You Chuck were in Marketing at the time and I’m sure you will remember the Flag magazine that was being published (I can’t remember the name of it) which contained all kinds of OT “wins”. David Ziff was the editor. There were incredible (real sci fi stuff) “wins” which, by the way, we seasoned SO members couldn’t swallow, i.e. “I was driving a car with my friends on the xx road and I postulated I wanted us to be at xx location. To my amazement, we suddenly found ourselves driving on xx road, 600 miles away”. And lots of similar stories were being published in this Flag Magazine. And this kind of PR was bringing public to the FSO (Flag Service Organization) from all over the world. I don’t know if that was the main hook but I remember well that at the time, the FSO was making over a million dollars a week. At that time, I had been re-assigned (promoted) from evauator to Flag Land Base Programs Chief, reporting directly to LRH, and was in charge of all programmes at the FLB (except International Management) including FSO programmes. OT wins and stories were a hell of a hook, money was rolling in and everybody was happy. As FSO programmes chief I had to chase targets, including the FSO, and I met a number of FCCIs (lingo for Flag Completion Case Intensive) while they were out of session and I met a number of people doing theit OT levels, lots of them spending fortunes doing their NOTs, and had chats with them at the Hour Glass restaurant, the place that was reserved for customers, and I was never impressed by these rich (or not) people spending fortunes on trying to achieve the state of Cause over Everything in the Universe. Many of them were already successful in life but wanted more. Others were in trouble in life and wanted to change things. The majority of them had not even read DMSMH and didn’t have a clue about what Scientology was about. I remember a Swiss guy who had been at the FSO for many months (spenging many thousands of dollars), he was a diamond dealer and had spent many thousands getting intensive after intensive trying to get to OT something or the other but kept getting bounced to the EO because he had a lot od undiscloseable O/Ws . He used to hang about the FSO swimming pool in shorts so short his balls would hang out all the time for people to see and he didn’t care. Many times he was sent to Ethics for it but really no one cared because he was very rich.
    But I had to do my job and ignore it because he was paying big bucks. As for me, I had honestly done (with fantastic life changing wins) my Grades, gone Clear and done OT I and II but when I went to OT III I immediately rejected it as an enforced item wich was in total violation of the the Auditor’s code, so, to be honest I dodged it with the excuse of being too busy with my post, (thank goodness my thoughts were never picked up by sec checks), so I got away with it and was never found out In my mind and with my actions at the time, I was being a hell of a lot more OT than all those good people paying millions to become cause over the entire universe. First of all, I never joined Scientology to “handle my case”, I joined because I felt I could help others with the help of LRH’s tech.

    But my post is not really about me. I admire Marty for what he has written here,
    attempting to get a message to all those deluded people

    Although Marty’s post addresses current times example, be clear that a similar scene existed 30 years ago, way before his time

    I mean no offense to any posters here. My words are the truth as I witnessed it and as I think . Scientology, in it’s pure form is, and will forever be, what you make of it. Just like Life is.


  201. Your criticism is very just. It’s only fantasy.

  202. Excellent analysis.

  203. 😆 Sums it right up.

  204. 😆 LMAO Dwayne!

  205. And that is the great contradiction that is Scientology & LRH: There is so much good in the tech and so much good in Ron but then he writes something like this that we all know is pure BS. IMHO this is the big “out list” every Scientologist, in or out, has to deal with.

  206. “It’s only fantasy.” One of the better mind fucks ever written.

  207. Alex, did you know David Harris? I would like to say hi to him.
    I’d like to let him know that his 20+ years in the AOLA telex room (3’x4′) were not in vain.

  208. If you will notice, (at 8:56PM) I disagreed with what I perceive to be Marty’s statement that the concept that one can create an effect in the universe of another simply by receiving auditing is delusory in nature. It is possible that I misduplicated him, but I did disagree with that. He published what I said. No big deal.
    I would have disagreed with that concept no matter who said it because I have observed that this phenomenon is possible, perhaps even a common occurrence. So be it. I like and respect Marty a lot, but I do not worship him or believe his every word. I have a lot of agreement with him, otherwise I would not be contributing to this blog.
    There are probably even a few things I agree with DM about…….like maybe we both like a drink of water when thirsty……. 🙂
    But give people a chance. Most Indies might be more “idie” than you suspect, even on a bad day.

  209. Flexible Flyer

    I don’t think this is funny, I think it’s ironic. Irony, the cream in the coffee next to a pack of Kools.

  210. Eric, I am so, so sorry for what they are doing to you. Please know that there are people out in the world who do care.
    Please try to be as strong as you possibly can through this.
    Good for you in refusing to let them control you.
    I am not a Scientologist, but I wish I could be of some help.
    Good luck to you Eric.

  211. This is what happens when someone does bong hits out of DM’s ass.

  212. Scary. You may be closer to the truth than we know. : /

  213. Simple, the USA is actually not a democracy but a republic wherein we elect representatives to talk out of their asses for us 🙂 🙂

  214. I guess that is why it smells so bad in Capitol Hill

  215. Jewel,

    I hear you. But I think you are misinterpreting the comments. Personally, I don’t think there’s a single commentator here who doesn’t feel compassion for this OTVIII. I doubt that anyone means ridiculing this man or his cog. I perceive the derision as aimed at the RCS’s avariciousness, ruthlessness and out-tech.

    To illustrate, what if an OTVIII had been given the data that the moon is made out of green cheese and completely believed it because the data, to him, was “on source” and not to be questioned? What if agreement was gotten from him to flow lots of money to the Green Cheese Moon Project. Then, later he gets a huge “win” or “cog” about how the moon is actually there to feed the starving peoples of Earth.

    Well, we would KINDA laugh, right? I would.

    But any derision, irony, contempt, dislike, for me would be targeted at those who perpetrated this lie, not the victim of it.

    Granted, my analogy is outlandish and extreme, but then, so is the crap that we’ve ALL been told about Super Power and its TRUE purpose, not to mention all the other considerable crap we’ve all been fed about the “unprecedented expansion” and “huge effects” that the COS is creating on the planet. I could have been that guy. Jewel, I’m not OTVIII but I’ve written up a helluva lot of 3rd and 4th D wins and cogs from courses and from auditing, based in part or in full on false data fed to me from Class V orgs via Int Management , CCHR, and/or from Int Events along with any number of “closed door briefings”, IAS briefings, etc. etc. during which we were regged for major money. If I gave these wins to Marty to post on this blog I wouldn’t blame anyone for laughing. I would lead the laughter as they’re pretty funny, and I would trust his purpose in posting them. I can laugh at myself now for being so clueless. That’s one of the gifts of true data; no matter how low on the tone scale you go in hearing it, if its true data, you CAN eventually come uptone.

    My 2 cents, Jewel. Peace.

  216. Your imagination knows no boundaries.

  217. Yes, i beleive i know who this is as well.

    He’s basically a good guy, but can easily bend logic (or policy or LRH datum) into any pretzel that will conform any subject or situation to group-think, so long as said group-think is “theta” or in line with “command intention.”

    He will work hard to make alot money for DM so long as his own ego is massaged in the process.

  218. Dwayne, though Marty makes all welcome, this blog is primarily for scientologists, so not unreasonably most posters are going to post assuming readers here willl understand the jargon.

    I hope your not expecting every poster also to provide a concurrent translation into regular english for each post! ha ha…I think the thing to do, is if there is any specific word or phraseology that doesnt click with you in any given post, simply ask about it, plenty here (me for one) will be happy to explain/translate for you.

  219. Aquamarine,
    I get what you are saying and your analogy is fitting. I see your point, but I was simply struck by the general tone and I couldn’t help but relate to how the RCS goes into attack mode and how DSA’s love to go joker degrader on people, and I sure don’t want to see people out of the church duplicating that level of inhumanity. I was just stating my knee jerk reaction to what seemed like direct inval of a guy. Thank you for your post response 🙂

  220. statpush,
    I know exactly what you mean. When I was on staff Power was supposed to be delivered to Scientology Execs and then staff at ASHO ( i think it was ASHO). I got briefed on it and of course it sounded awesome, but no where did I hear about needing all this super machinery or a billion dollar monster building. The fact is, the auditing of it could have been delivered while LRH was still in command and I don’t know why he didn’t do, like he said he was going to. Maybe someone else who was in the SO working on tech lines would know. There have been so many grand ideas and some stupid ones…”Operation Z” was supposed to key everyone out in an auditorium all at once and creating this big inflow of people up the bridge…i’m sure all this comes from somewhere but i am going to give LRH credit and figure that a comment or idea of his became the ‘fact’ or that people just created on the rumor line. I agree w/ your last: Look don’t Listen…always great advice.

  221. So true! Actually, I remember having a blown out cog too exterior to walk my body without holding on to the table and then the wall in the course room all the way to the examiner. I had been reading the usual KSW and Tech Degrades and I suddenly got the idea of what it would be like if the entire planet of people cleaned up there misunderstood words and crashing mu’s. I thought how much higher toned everything would be and how blown out everyone would be considering the nature of the mu on a case. I guess I could be considered drunk with kool aide. But, the thing is, I know that is an impossible goal so I think I’m still sane.

  222. The quote does not communicate that LRH is suggesting that such is possible. He wrote ‘temptation’. Which is a possible avenue of unrealistic goals the PC may chose to go for. He is talking about the interference that such goals and ideas of such goals will put on others just trying to go up the bridge as it was mean to be walked. Such ideas can infect others when they are searching for answers.

    Correct me If I am wrong because I fail to see LRH’s lie here.

    PC’s lie to themselves when they misunderstand stuff. It’s like when they think LRH really wanted them to make the ashtray levitate or something like that. Even if such was possible SC is not about that.
    It is common MU I see people taking quite a lot. It is the PC’s job to stay objective and the auditor’s/CS’s job to help guide the PC back onto the objective path. Some will stray from that path no matter what and I can’t blame them. After all many would like to have Jedy powers. SC was never about that kind of stuff, but people mix in their fantasies and can end up with false expectations.

    This post just reminded me of a story (I’ve heard from trustable sources) from one of the freezone conventions where the Russian guests talked about their trip to the Bahamas where they were conducting equally hallucinatory planet-wide clearing by ‘group’ auditing some entity they have pinpointed with previous remote auditing. They were then planning to go to yet another fancy island to continue their quest. Quite a practical excuse to travel to tropical island. I was wondering who sponsored the event and how gullible they must be.

    The paranormal crap is mostly if not all just LRH’s stuff taken out of context by PCs. If you pay close attention you will see he is not suggesting you be the next Luke Skywalker.

  223. Pingback: A New OTVIII Shares a Success Story! | OTVIIIisGrrr8!

  224. Thank you ,for your kindness

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