Faith Healing

In the book The Intention Experiment author Lynne Mctaggart details scientific studies conducted on the effectiveness of various forms of faith healing.  Faith healing encompasses all forms of spiritual assist utilizing intention to aid in the recovery of physically ill people.   The healers use various forms – from the direct laying on of hands, to prayer, to long-distance intention direction practice.

The results determined  by statistics that a certain type of healer had a higher rate of success than another type.  The distinction was that group “A” healed by supplicating to or conjuring a higher level of intention or spirit beyond their own, individual spirit potential – be it God, the Tao, or whatever word various intention practitioners used to describe a higher level, available pool of life force – to channel it into the healing process.  Healers in group “B” asserted they were directing solely their own life force to effectuate healing.   Extensive testing determined that group “A” had a significantly higher success rate than group “B.”

Knowing what you know about Thetans, theta, the 7th Dynamic, the 8th dynamic, spirituality and God – and assuming all other factors were equal, which they seldom are – what are your thoughts concerning the reason for the higher success rate of group “A?”

293 responses to “Faith Healing

  1. Fly on the wall.

    I suppose its the difference between beef and beef broth, or a can of concentrate versus a glass of its juice.

  2. Each group needs a crux or a via to REALLY believe in healing… get the healing wavelengths to arrive in the subject. Hence, with God, healing occurs, without God, no healing occurs.

    Maybe it’s the ‘Faith’ rule. If you really believe then it will happen and people think that God can do it and they can’t and so it is!!

    It’s all energy and empty space anyway.


  3. “For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.” Matthew 18:20
    My thoughts about this:
    One is stronger with the help of others. Auditor and PC are stronger than bank. Concentration on healing is stronger.

  4. I would say the Tone 40 Factor. The success of the healer depends solely on how convincing he/she is. In fact it is the patient who heal himself, something he normally can not do, hence the need of another person present, whom the patient believes have superpowers of some sort: God, aliens or Santa Claus, does not matter as long as the patient is utterly convinced that he will be healed.

  5. Fascinating question.

    I am a person who generally has, if not specific knowledge in a given area, a certain opinion on most things. On this one, i dont proffess to know.

    I think it may have something about not limiting yourself to a single dynamic. There is a fantastic amount of spiritual energy pervading the universe. Perhaps by being open to it, wether it is the aggregate of all spiritual entities or God, such healing works better.

    Engergy at the quantum level can act either as an energy wave or a solid particle, and amazingly, the difference depends on wether or not someone is observing a given quantity of energy as it moves through space. Experiments proving this have been duplicated many times.

    Perhaps theta works in a similar way. When we consider ourselves, we are a single seperate unit of spirit. When unobserved or self considered we are a spiritual gestalt. Perhaps this is what sleep is, that time when a spiritual entity can be, for a time, unfixed as a desparate unit.

    Not to say that “we are all one,” but rather there is more to theta than we fully understand at our current level of awareness and somehow, though being seperate units, all spiritual/theta energy is also a cohesive force. Not unlike water, which though being comprised of untold numbers of seperate molecules and atoms is also an aggregate thing that has its own nature and potentiality.

  6. martyrathbun09

    Fascinating, Moonshot. Thanks for this.

  7. I think there are so many dynamics in play that it’s next to impossible to conduct a balanced study.

    If a person lives a spiritual life, he’s more likely to live a healthy lifestyle and he’ll be more likely to fight off illness or bodily injure. And he’ll be the one that has loved ones around him that will provide him spiritual healers.

    In the same way as I religiously take my vitamins every day as proscribed by my nutritionist (even if recent studies indicate it makes no difference) I try to live a righteous life. As long as I don’t harm myself and others doing this, studies or not, immediate gratification or long-term salvation, that’s what I believe is the right thing to do.

  8. Group A operated on a more pan determined basis while Group B would tend more toward self determinism.

    And as far as groups go, my observation is that the CO$ as an example is operating on a very self determined basis as regards their actions; all the while stating the opposite (we are saving the planet or your eternity) which then enters a lie into the equation further complicating effective results.

    The planet will go on with or without us. Our eternity simply is and it certainly is not the province of a humanoid group.

    IMHO an ethical pan determined group can help create a world worth inheriting and in doing so would be helping create the reality of ones eternity. It’s fun, it’s exciting and everyone wins! So why not.

    Keep the faith and help with the healing!

  9. That book is in my reading queue but I haven’t cracked the cover yet. However, from a childhood watching the laying on of hands, prayer circles etc., I’m starting with the opinion that the most important element in faith healing is the person being healed. What are their expectations? Where is their attention and intention directed?

    Perhaps it is easier to have faith in your healer if they claim to be channeling a higher power than if it’s just his or her own mojo at work.

  10. Moonshot,
    Nicely stated. I share your insights.

  11. It isn’t clear from the above but it would be interesting to know if the people being healed were also aware of the differences between group “A” and “B”.

    If the people being healed were aware that the healing power came from a higher entity, God or spiritual plane as compared to just a special individual, I can surmise that the result would be higher in “A” simply because it is more common for people to have faith in a God or something higher and would be both agreeable and believable in someone channeling that energy towards their healing.

    What Moonshot says above is good theory but I couldn’t add anything to it as I simply don’t know.

    When I was around 18-19 I was working as a nurse at a retirement home to make some extra money over the summer holidays. There was one lady who was around 98 and had suffered a stroke. She also has quite a severe degree of dementia. At the time I had more hair and was in the process of growing a goatee but I was just as tall and skinny back then. This old lady saw me in my white nurse robe and called me “Jesus”.

    I wasn’t very enlightened on much spirituality or religious matters back then but I had enough sense to not make her wrong. I simply told her something to the tune of, “You will get better!”. Within days she had recovered from the stroke at a rate the doctors had not seen in younger and much healthier people.

    I had no special powers, intention, Tone 40 or anything, I just went with the flow of what the old lady was experiencing and gave her a promising statement.

    This incident told me that what the patient being healed believed was stronger than any other factors involved.

  12. martyrathbun09

    Yes, that is one of the factors not being equal – the considerations of the recipient of healing. Nonetheless, taking that into consideration and factoring it mathematically, the conjurers of greater bodies of theta or spirit were more successful.

  13. Why is no one in the room astonished as the tumor fades away (and, why is the tumor fading away instead of reducing in size? seems like an easy camera trick to me)? Instead there’s no reaction at all until the end, which is a nice golf-clap.

  14. OK Marty, this is more than an interesting coincidence. I just happen to be visiting a medical doctor except he is a fully qualified medical doctor like no other. In addition to his medical training in the USA, as a young man he trained with Tibetan monks for years in communist Russia of all places. Interestingly, he did a form of TR0 except back in those mountains if he flinched he wasn’t flunked by the monks but hit with a stick.

    The man’s skill in healing both conventionally and unconventionally is without doubt. I have visited his practice and seen the lines of people generated by word of his skill alone.

    Seeing your blog this morning while sharing breakfast with the doctor,I asked him whether the force he used to heal was his or did he tap into a more cosmic force. His answer was definite, the healing force was not his, he tapped into a more cosmic energy and used it. He added, without prompting, that he chanelled it and made motions with his hands and arms to depict the flow, downward and outward.

  15. martyrathbun09

    And I wonder too whether those considerations of the recipient – no matter how dressed up, i.e. Jesus, the Tao, Spirit (theta), etc – aren’t effective to the degree they open the recipient to receive whatever agent it is that heals? Or is it simply their own considerations that whatever it is will heal that, in fact, heals.

  16. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Haydn, that is remarkable stuff.

  17. In line with this and other recent posts of yours Marty, I’d like to recommend a book that was game changing for me…

    The End of Suffering: Fearless Living in Troubled Times . . or, How to Get Out of Hell Free

    The author Russell Targ is probably most famous for his work at SRI in the remote viewing experiments with scientologists Ingo Swan (who recently passed) and Harold Puthoff. Although Targ was not a scientologist, he was a seeker and this book is a summation of his path so far.

    It delves into quantum physics and its relation to thought, healing practices such as Lynne Mctaggart talks about, and the confluence of science and spirituality that is upon us now.

    Targ was both a scientist AND a person with a profound spiritual practice. This book pulled a lot of diverse elements together for me.

    (I sent you a amazon gift card to your aol email so you could have a copy on me….)



  18. It’s my hunch that we are beings of unlimited potential and what we truly believe is true, is true- at least for ourselves. So the more someone believes something, the more real it is. This would explain faith healing, placebo and other things. If the person receiving the “assist” also believed in God or some higher power contributing the healing, I assume that might explain the results. Tintin got into this above, but I think it’s more spiritual than that. Scientology assists can do some pretty amazing things. I didn’t read that book, but I assume Scientology was not included.

  19. martyrathbun09

    Wow Dave, thanks a lot. Ordered it.

  20. Thanks for clarifying. Well, the oldest religion on earth when you reach down for the core and bypass all the misinterpreted symbolism you have a world-wide religion and belief in the universal trinity – The material masculine (or Sun, right side, Yang, etc), the material feminine (Moon, left side, Yin, etc) and the “third eye”, mind’s eye, soul, spirit, etc.

    You’ll find this depicted in symbolism and art work from the Incas, Mayans, Egyptians, Malaysians, Freemasons, Hindi, Buddhist, Kundalini Yoga, Taoist, Druids, Indonesian paganism, etc,etc. Even the Christians adopted its symbolism (due to popularity of the concept) and redefined it with the Holy Trinity.

    The basic principle being that once a perfect balance or middle-way between the masculine and feminine (Yang and Yin) had been obtained, truth, enlightenment and deeper insight into the spiritual/God could be obtained. Achieve balance and you awaken the third eye.

    As there is overwhelming truth in this and this basic principle is the working foundation for even Scientology [yes, blasphemy, I know…] as well as other working practices and philosophies, I also believe this factor plays a part in the results of the faith healing experiment.

  21. That’s a very good question. At that time of my old lady story, I was practically an atheist, so I would vote on it being her own consideration rather than me channeling some higher force…

  22. martyrathbun09

    You have clearly been walking one heck of a interesting path. Thanks for this.

  23. Don’t promote this often but yes, I’ve done quite a bit of reading and research and speaking with actual people who are masters at their faith/practice. This journey has not only confirmed the basic truths of core Scientology concepts but it has also confirmed basic truth elsewhere but you have to look at the simplicity of the original theories/scriptures and ignore completely modern interpretation of the symbols.

  24. It also aligns with the Law of Attraction and the Law of Power, is scarily close to the principles of 8-80 and even aligns with the positive/negative nature of energy phenomena. Travelling on a road to integrate the working aspects of all this truth while using Scientology logic to see through bad interpretations and personal opinions into that which can’t be truly named has been a fascinating journey. If I feel like writing one day I’ll share it with you 🙂

  25. Group A believed they were tapping into an infinite source of healing energy.
    And so they were!

  26. One group who has also taken this path, though I’ve never visited them, but is living examples of existing in harmony and balance with the universe is this group – you should check it out for interest:

  27. Interestingly, the Logo of CST shows 2 opposing terminals and I always wondered if somebody could put in some data of the creation of the logo.
    I don’t dare interpreting its meaning to anybody, but it is obvious that its geometry goes along with many ancient theories and aswell some of the newer theories in quantum mechanics, Unified field theory.

    Any input appreciated.

  28. Group A is postulating from a larger context beyond just the individual self, with it’s mental conditioning, localized in one place.

    There is an automatic surrendering of personal limitations and ego when addressing this larger context.

    That larger context is who we are.

    Throw a salt statue of a person into the ocean and it becomes one with the ocean.

    But those elements of the individual statue still exist in reality, in the ocean.

    There is more spiritual power in this larger context: God, Self, Tao, Supreme Being etc.

    Love is a very important part of this larger context.

    Love always heals

  29. I think the faith healer’s theta (amount of intention) has a lot
    to do with it. DM and TC are super humans so they should
    be able to do it easily?!

    In reality it is the connection the healer can establish with
    the subject even if it is what could be called enveloping him
    or her with the theta he exudes. To do that they have to go
    through the preliminaries which includes a very high degree
    of comm, affinity and reality and then enter the higher levels
    of spiritual connection/intention. It has to go beyond belief
    and be closer to tone 40.
    So the answer to why group A has a higher success rate
    is his degree or ability to approximate tone 40.

    In the beginning 70’s at old ASHO I met a student (Ted Neil,
    a native Hawaiian) who used to be a faith healer when he
    was young. However, when too many people from the
    islands came to him he did not want to do it any more and
    he certainly did not do it when in Scientology. He gave me
    a Dn assist once and he was quite intense but at the same
    time I got the idea he was holding back. I was power plus
    on the grade chart but in this session for some reason I
    started in on OT III so he ended the session and I never
    understood why until many years later when reaching
    that level. He was OT III at the time of this session. But
    there were no eval or inval just a standard Dn assist
    session. Maybe just his presence and intention did it?

  30. At first I used to try to do the B style even doing assists. I thought it was something “I” had to do, get the person well. After further study of LRH (all the BC tapes for instance) I finally got it. It worked much better to stop using effort and just be with the pc see what was going on with him/her and assist them.

  31. Interesting subject. A recent article I read on described an study where Group A did a set of strengthening exercises and Group B only thought about doing the exercises. Group B’s strength, unbelievably, increased by 22%. (Group A’s by 30%.) So, there is much to be said about he effects of the mind. In another study, piano players who did lessons and another group who only imagined doing the lessons mentally became equally proficient in the early stages of learning. I guess the man was right when he said intention is all.

  32. Didn’t LRH speak about this being a “three terminal universe”?
    I believe it is in the Study Tape lectures…

  33. I remember my dad telling me that Hal Puthoff came to his Rotary Club luncheon one week and gave a lecture on Scientology. He and Targ were legendary in Bay Area Scientology circles in the early 70s. Another influence of Phil Spickler’s Palo Alto Mission that its fingers in a lot of different pies from the 49ers to SRI.

  34. Don’t know about the logo of CST, but the symbol of Yin and Yang couldn’t be more accurate and simplistic as far as a representation of these universal truths. A circle with a dot to symbolize the third eye (spiritual) and its eternal value as well as using a triangle to symbolize balance and co-relation/harmony also happen to be one of the most used and most ancient (of the known) symbols in existence.

  35. You can see this as you want. This clinic was there and the results were there. It is not a thing that you have to believe.

  36. I’d have to look at the study, but it’s almost certainly a placebo effect. Study after study have shown no positive effect from prayer when the patient doesn’t know they’re being prayed for. Once someone knows that they are being prayed for, or more importantly start praying themselves, they are more likely to do the things necessary to feel better, or simply expect to feel better and report their condition in line with these expectations.

  37. I watched very interesting episode of Dr. Oz where he examined a fella named Dr. Issam Nemeh a doctor, who is also a faith healer working out of
    Cleveland. The guy had some pretty incredible stats and one of the most interesting things he said was that he didn’t always need the person to believe they were going to be healed. After watching the program, (which can be found online) I was first impressed that he does all his faith healings for “free” and I came to the conclusion that this guy was gifted with the right “vibration” to heal and the ability to focus that intention. So in the end, it may be just like the difference between getting a good auditor who naturally gifted vs someone who learns all the tech of auditing but can’t seem to get the results that the more natural auditor gets.

  38. My take is that at Native Sate there would no Faith Healing.
    Tone 40 definitely a major component but access to the Universe
    and energy included. Gypsys connect with Earth Powers for healing by various methods that actually work however unlikely to a Western mind.
    One such is take hair clippings and nail clippings of a sick person and bury them in the ground. I understand the mechanics of this and the Gypsys swear by it. On the other hand Ive known people terminally ill who essentially willed themselves to full health. Hanging out with Gypys
    adds something more

  39. Crashing Upwards

    Ulf, if you have not come across it yet, Masonry and its Symbols by Percival gives an interesting genesis to their trinity or steps. Percival himself uses Knower-Thinker-Doer, and balance is very much at issue.

  40. I am not a “healer”.
    But sometimes I could de-stimulate another being in front of me just by intention.
    But it wasn’t intention alone.
    It was my deep faith in the nature of the potentials of the being in front of me. I somehow bypassed all mechanics and was in comm (not verbal, not emotional, rather conceptual) with his “spiritual spark”, I’ll call it. My intent was NOT to remove anything. My sole intent was to contact this energy creation unit and somehow let it know, it is still there. There was no eval or inval involved in this “assist”. Just a compassionate, silent, knowing “hello”.
    I didn’t take “god” into account. But it was a activity solely on the seventh dynamic.
    The result was an imediate body-change, lightened emotions (higher wavelenght), and the being was able to find something it was worth to survive for and the hope something can be done, there is a way to help it.
    The whole cycle was non-verbal.
    It was not my intent to “heal”. My intent was to “assist” the being.

    It is my belief that we need to have faith in the being in front of us.
    LRH wrote something about it – I don’t know anymore where it is written.
    I could find it if someone really wants to have the exact quote.

    “Healers in group “B” asserted they were directing solely their own life force to effectuate healing.”
    Hm… no. Had nothing to do with my own “life force”. Only my observation skills, the ability to spot changes in the universe of the person in front of me. My identity was not involved also. It was as the time would stand still.

    But there was one thing more involved. I really loved this guy.
    Not just “pretended” ARC. Real Understanding and Compassion.

    Have I done it again?

    In my view it is very important to cultivate love and compassion in your universe. Real understanding (i.e. seeing things as they really are) is very beneficial in all this.

    If you lack definitions for Love and Compassion, take your time. Both are very important spiritual concepts. Not known to the average, corporate Scientologist.

  41. They’ve been brought over to slight, gentle cause?

  42. Thanks, yes, I’m quite familiar with it.

  43. Interesting. I saw an korean Tea-Kwon-Do master who taught his disciples formal movements (poomse) in 4 distinct “stages”, before doing the proper performence.
    The first was to perform the movement very slowly without any effort.
    2nd – very fast, without any effort.
    3rd – very slowly with lots of effort, tension
    4rt – in your mind only (sitting meditating or lying)

    The 5th stage, the actual poomse was perfected through the pattern 1-4.
    I thought it was very interesting how he was conciously “re-programming” the somatic habbits.

  44. I surmise that strength in numbers as well as the trinity or another nature, ARC has some influence. I do believe ultimately it is the thetan’s decisions that iron out the problem for what ever reason be it a need of healing or to fix something in the environment a little help never hurts. “A” would be my choice as well. ARC Bill Dupree

  45. I have bits and pieces that may contribute to this discussion:

    Buddhism has a rich heritage of Bodhisattva, enlightened beings that have vowed to help all sentient beings to achieve liberation from bondage.

    The oldest and most powerful of the Bodhisattvas is the Amitabha Buddha, “The Buddha of Infinite Light,” who is described by Gautama Buddha (the Buddha we are familiar with) in the Sutra of the Buddha’s Teaching on Amitabha Buddha. The sutra explains that there are countless Buddha worlds. Also this: “Shariputra, if there is a good man or good woman who hears of Amitabha and holds his name whether for one day, two days, three, four, five days, six days, as long as seven days with one mind unconfused, when this person nears the end of life, before him will appear Amitabha and all the Assembly of Holy Ones. When the end comes, his mind will not be utterly confused, and in Amitabha’s Land of Utmost Happiness he will quickly be reborn. ” Here is the sutra link:

    In the Christian, Jewish, Islamic and Zoroastrian tradition, we have the hierarchy of angels of great power, and they are all immortal beings. In traditions throughout the world, there is the Great Mother Goddess, with many names and forms. Her most popular and known form now is the Holy Mother Mary.

    And let us not forget the immortal being called the Christ, who can be called upon by name for help, healing, and salvation.

    I encountered a fascinating scholar of Islam, whose life work is to re-check the translations of the Koran from archaic language to modern, and to english. He says the core phrase of the Koran is really: There is no God, but there is Allah. In other words, Allah is not a manifested being in this or any other world. Similar to YHVH, and to the Supreme Cosmic Spirit in Hindu Vedānta philosophy known as Brahman, which is genderless. Even so there are angels, devas, Buddhas, and so on, in apparently infinite numbers.

    LRH often spoke of the abilities of a rehabilitated theta being, in terms of cleared theta clear and OT as being immortal, not confined to the limitations of this time-space continuuum. This indicates to me that such a being could come and go at will, and act within this framework, with or without form. Immortal i.e. doesn’t die. It makes no sense that such beings could not be communicated to, and appealed to for help. After all, only their physical bodies are gone. He rarely speaks of this sort of thing, but in Hymn of Asia, he said something like – and behind me in the sky from I speak there are ranks — I am but a teacher. (Maybe someone has this book and can pull the exact quotation). He also says: I can appear to you day or night and that saying the name of Buddha is purifying. this makes sense, as numerous entities are described in History of Man, along with numerous abilities of a theta being.

    The creed ends with: The spirit alone can save or heal the body. This doesn’t say that the individual thetan alone can save or heal the body, it says spirit. The affinity scale is a scale of proximity — at the top, at serenity of beingness there is no distance.

    What is interesting about all of this is that there is no shame attached to calling up a friend or family member or person in a position of power to help, to ask for and receive help. We do it all the time and we even consider the willingness to help to be a measure of the good intent of an individual. Do our friends, family and other individuals actually help us when we ask? Of course they do. Does this mean we are worshipping them when we ask for help? Of course not.

    So why is there shame or fear or reluctance to call up a friend or individual who has passed beyond the need for incarnation to ask for help and to receive help? And if we subscribe to the view that immortality is the truth, then it stands to reason that this is completely reasonable. Can they help us? Of course they can. Does this mean we are worshipping them when we ask for help? Of course not.

    What is really interesting is that there are thousands and thousands of individuals reporting such communication on the Internet these days. A common thread is that these angels, Buddhas, extraterrestrials etc. (not incarnated) will only help if asked to help, and will not otherwise interfere. In a great deal of the information there is a distinction made between Service to Self (STS) beings (who act in their own self interests always) and Service to Others beings (who act in the interests of all sentient beings). STS beings are considered to be “evil” in their intent for they are only concerned with their own ends and their ends justify their means. It is recommended that one does not call for help from STS beings as they will tend to act and teach in the direction of enslavement, apparently this is compulsive behavior.

  46. sorry… that is the trinity of another nature,

  47. I think Group A had greater success because God exists.

    I don’t know who or what “God” is, but I know He is not one being uber alles, and I think He is the collective “All”, the pure Life/Love force of all of us. I believe each of us are facets of God, and yet we are unique.

    I personally have felt the power of prayer. I went into this kicking and screaming – since I was an agnostic since birth. But, in one moment of desperation, I prayed. I literally took the scene from “It’s a Wonderful Life”, where George Bailey prays in Martini’s roadhouse, as my guide, and I gave myself up to God. And He responded. I say “He”, but it was like an alignment of forces – an alignment like all the street lights suddenly turning green. And a Path was presented. I have prayed since. I honestly don’t know what to make of this, but I do know it is real.

    “The Secret” uses the euphemism “Universe” to mean God. “Providence” is a great Protestant word for God. Once I got past the idea of the “R6 God” sitting in his chair, I could start to get the concept, or at least get a little closer, to what God is and means.

    God is ultimate “Rightness”, Perfection, and Love. And so asking for help and acknowledging this can certainly result in miracles.


  48. The word Reiki is made of two Japanese words – Rei which means “God’s Wisdom or the Higher Power” and Ki which is “life force energy”. So Reiki is actually “spiritually guided life force energy.”

    Several years ago I popped my arm out of its socket while playing tennins.
    A friend who was a Reiki practitioner (and an OT VII) had me come over to her place. I’d had a couple of touch assists, to no avail prior to this.

    I had no clue what Reidi was, how it worked, or if it did anything at all. The mobility in my arm was down to 10%. I was in a lot of pain. She worked on my arm for about 15 minutes. The pain was gone, mobility up to about 75% and I felt positive the arm would completely heal quickly (which it did).

    I understand that she, using a higher power, effected a change in the arm’s flows, removed standing waves, realigned postulates of “a healthy arm,” and set the course for complete healing. She did all this without my knowledge, agreement or intention or counter intention. She simply did it by aligning her postulates to the energy of god (the eighth dynamic).

    Now, on another flow, I once did a contact assist on a guy who had crushed his thumb on a door. It had already turned purple. We did the assist for about ten minutes. He suddenly felt the pain of the original impact. The pain blew, the normal color returned to his thumb and it looked totally normal.
    I did not invoke a higher power, I just “knew” that if we duplicated the original impact perfectly that we would get a positive change.

    From these two personal experiences (and there are many more I’m not mentioning here) what I see is that it is the clarity of the postulate and the absense of counter intention that enables the thetan to effect a “cure.”

    All of us have many intentions and counter intentions floating around. A firm belief in a higher power might enable the healer to utterly ignore his own counter intentions and push the pure intention through. A firm belief in God, or a body of pure theta, or the Author of the Universe does definitely, in my mind, pulls me out of being an “only one” and gives me more theta energy to help others.

    Good questions, Marty. I love the thought process.

  49. Because group A is closer to the truth. We as human beings (or ex human beings) here on Earth sometimes beleive that we are the big, able great and „superpower“ beings. In Heaven (sorry for that term. I do not want to write tech talk here) there are beings much higher, or on a much higher level than us. Those can create life. Those are the teachers. Even if you are not granted some power from them you can use, if you convince someone you want to heal that you only „channel“ those powers to them then this might have an effect. But usually this does not work very well by my opinion. If you can really heal then you are gifted with some connection to higher beings. I could not write this down technically perfect and this subject might be full of misleading informations from the past. I guess that the concept that there are higher beings is not very popular these days. But the truth for me is, that this is the case. Best described in some old myth.

  50. Just Another Anon

    Really interesting inquiry. My father is a Pentecostal pastor, my mom is a psychologist, and I would choose not to identify myself as any one particular ideology. This is the kind of debate we lived for around the dinner table when I was growing up. There’s never going to be definitive answers, but the theories are enough to make even a very skeptical person really think outside their comfort zone.

    Personally, having been raised in an environment that put so much emphasis on prayer, the laying on of hands, and other faith healing methods, I believe a large part of it is strength in numbers and the intention of those numbers. Someone in need of healing may start by reaching out to their god of choice privately and personally. If that doesn’t succeed, they may reach out to a leader of their faith for prayer. From there, a small group may pray over the person, and then it can even go far beyond that to things like prayer chains that include entire congregations.

    Sickness, disease, and other ailments are isolating things. A sick, injured, or disabled person is frequently quarantined from society. Sick days are used for work, school days are missed. Hospitals keep patients to themselves and limit the hours in which others can see them. Injured and disabled people often have stigmas (intentional or unintentional) attached to them, be it separate parking places and bathroom stalls to other people not wanting to look at them for fear it would be interpreted as staring or gawking. A sick person can quickly feel trapped and utterly alone.

    But with measures of faith such as those above, a person isn’t so alone in their battle. Numerous others, from deities to complete strangers who have absolutely nothing to gain from aiding the individual have invested their time and energy into this person’s well being, for no other reason than they want to see the person become better. That investment effects everything from an individual’s state of mind, to their emotions, to their outlook on all things, to their physical energy, to their own spirituality and their certainty it is at work. Their feelings of self-worth, value, and their motivation to improve can and often will be impacted.

    In contrast, with group “B” relying solely on themselves for their own improvement, the isolation of any sickness and injury is even more pronounced. If there isn’t improvement, it’s their own shortcomings causing it. They’re not determined enough, not willful enough, not strong enough, and so on. When already isolated or feeling inadequate (which is fairly par for the course during any injury or sickness), additional discouragement is hardly going to leave one with the will or energy needed for improvement and could easily make one worse until the ailment has run its course (or even beyond).

    Any ailment is an uphill battle, but one is bound to get farther up that hill faster with a wall of support behind them, however it may manifest itself, than someone making a go of it alone.

  51. Hello Ulf,

    this video is very interesting:

    It excludes spirituality but is a good demonstration of two opposing terminals hold in a certain distance from each other.
    In any case an interesting theory.

    “A circle with a dot to symbolize the third eye (spiritual) and its eternal value as well as using a triangle to symbolize balance and co-relation/harmony also happen to be one of the most used and most ancient (of the known) symbols in existence.”
    We shouldn’t forget the “Seal of Solomon” and the two opposing terminals on the “Arc of the Covenant” (old testament) 😉

  52. Seems there would be m
    ore horsepower in group A.

  53. Exactly! A thetan can heal itself but it has to postulate that it will be healed first. God would be used as a prop for their confidence.

  54. PreferToBeAnon2

    I need to do some research so I can point to the specific study; however, I think Larry Dossey’s work has proven the opposite. Perhaps someone here is more familiar with it off hand and can quote it directly. But, folks who did not know they were being prayed for still showed a marked effect.

  55. martyrathbun09


  56. It is only my observation, but I tend to say that the “healing agent” is the being itself, in any case.
    External influences can only assist/inhibit the being.
    For example, Ron talks in SOS lectures about the old church where so and so much theta was free and the pople got “healed”.
    It is my understanding that the circumstences where favourable and some higher wavelenght even “blew” some of their ridges. But without the postulate/consideration of the being no lasting change would manifest. Pilgrims regularly visit holy places, they already have the expectation (postulate) when they start their journey.

    An Auditor is the external agent who helps the being to change a consideration/postulate.
    Of course there are places where you can go, find some peace where you could change considerations more easily.
    Or just take a walk.
    Make vacations.
    Theta differences (this is the frequency of tone-level) can be spoted in the environment. As can efforts and even thoughts.
    But communication alone is not the power of “healing”. It is the willingness of the awarness-unit to rearrange havingness (and this is done by postulate).

  57. While 7th dynamic phenomena might be considered to be the primary focus and arena of Scientology philosophy and Tech, I never ran across much discussion on the 8th dynamic from LRH. Only that it was the most encompassing- by it’s very definition, and that each individual had to develop their own understanding of it’s nature and their relationship to it. I was raised in a very agnostic family, so precepts, assumptions, and uninspected beliefs about such things weren’t part of my “internal universe”, meaning that I had (or was allowed) to kind of find my own way in this area. What I, personally, came to was not so much that “there’s a lot of spiritual energy flowing through and around the universe”, but that “spiritual energy IS everything, and THAT energy might be conceived of as “universal Mind”, of which we are all a part. We are all connected to (or a part of, if you prefer) everything and everyone else, and the concept of separateness (necessary to have a *game*) is the beginning of the downward spiral; the degree of commitment to that concept, perhaps being a measure of degree of aberration. All this was necessary for me to answer your question about thoughts on why group “A” might have been so much more successful than group “B”. The human body, while wonderful in so many ways, constantly and powerfully reinforces the concept of our being separate from everything else because it presents it all as “being *out* there, or *over* there. You could even say that each and every one of us is hypnotized to a greater or lesser degree that this separateness is reality. So, when group “A” directed healing energy through the via whatever 8th dynamic concept they had, they would almost automatically *amplify* the energy being directed because they were diminishing their ideas of separateness, whereas, group “B” -as well intended and spiritually elevated as they may be within their own universe(s)- never availed themselves to that greater pool of spiritual energy that exists with connectivity.

  58. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the insight, Les.

  59. martyrathbun09

    I think there is something to your description of God.

  60. Very well said.
    I agree with what you said.

  61. There was a movie that I saw when I was a kid that really impressed me.

    Basically it was about a tribe in Africa. The well loved “king” of the tribe had beautiful twin daughters. The story revolves around the event wherein one of the daughters was found killed.

    As events unfold, we discover that another tribe member had been going to the witch doctor because he had some physical difficulty that he was trying to resolve. The witch doctor had done much “magic” on a stronger and stronger gradient, but the recipient had not thus far responded. So the witch doctor devised a plan. He told the recipient that this was going to take “VERY STRONG MAGIC”. He told the recipient that if he was to get well he would have to kill a girl, but she would have to be a twin daughter of a king. (note, the witch doctor was trying to control this tribe for his own benefit, but was being balked by the love that the tribe had for the king, so this would also serve to covertly hurt the king.)

    The recipient is appalled, at first, because he also admires the king, but he has come to the point where he will do “ANYTHING” to be cured, and he knows of no other kings who have twin daughters. He, of course knew, that if he were found out he would be killed himself, so he knew he would also have to leave his home and go elsewhere. In order for the “magic” to work he had to be TOTALLY convinced that if he did what he “had to do”, he would be healed.

    So he kills one of the king’s twin girls and sneaks away from the village….

    …and IS healed.


    Eric S

  62. Tagging upon what Haydn commented about above, but turning it from healing over to Creative Genius coming from outside ourselves, anyone with twenty minutes to spare will undoubtedly enjoy this amazing talk by Eat, Pray, Love author, Elizabeth Gilbert.

    And I do mean AMAZING!

  63. Marty

    Great question. Let me contribute to the comments from 2 angles:

    1) Ulf writes something really interesting…

    “it would be interesting to know if the people being healed were also aware of the differences between group “A” and “B”. If the people being healed were aware that the healing power came from a higher entity, God or spiritual plane as compared to just a special individual, I can surmise that the result would be higher in “A” simply because it is more common for people to have faith in a God or something higher ..”

    This is an excellent question which the survey designers may have missed. I see this all the time: methodological flaws in survey design created by unskilled professional. These sometimes skew the findings to a point where they are meaningless.

    2) One of my best friends is a medical psychic. She works with a pendulum to diagnose medical issues. She does it remotely, she does not need to see the person. However she needs to know their name, as it appeared on their birth certificate. She is amazingly accurate in her diagnoses. She can also identify which homeopathic remedies can heal the affliction.

    She was once hired by a medical lab to assess their herbal remedies. They wanted her to see if there were incompatibilities between the sometimes 20-30 different herbs used in a single formula. Just using the pendulum, and a list of herbs in a particular concoction, she was able to identify which herbs conflicted with others. The MDs of the lab confirmed that her findings made a lot of sense. In answer to your question, she does not profess to have medical knowledge—hers is minimal compared to an MD. But she claims a gift in terms of being able to use the pendulum, and to let it “talk” and point to whatever it wants to point. She says you have to be born with this gift. You can cultivate it, but you cannot do this work without the gift.
    She also says that once all people had such gift, they were born with it. But over time, and with civilization, this gift has been list to many people.
    She can also see who has this gift, and who does not.

    For a while, she used to work for a well known MD/naturopath. She would sit in his back office. He would receive patients, and collect their information, and then he would go in his back office, show her their name, and she would diagnose what they had and what treatment they needed, and then the MD would go back and share this information with the patients, providing he agreed, which he did 90% of the time. There are more people with such skills than one may think.
    Again, she had neither medical training, nor some spiritual training like Scientology’s OTs. She tapped an innate gift. And she had a basic medical knowledge.

    Thanks for bringing up this topic

  64. I’m always willing to believe stuff like this, but I have never been convinced. My gut tells me something is false about this video. I would love to be wrong about that though.

  65. How about: “We meditate upon the glorious splendor of the vivifier divine. May he himself illuminate our minds.” That sure heals in the morning.


  66. A stable datum that I’ve had in place for quite sometime and one that has served and continues to serve me well is: Things, people (including myself), places, situations, circumstances, agendas, etc. are rarely what they appear to be and, too, are rarely about what I think they’re about. A bit over a year ago, I had a shift in perspective with regards to the MEST Universe and modified the content of the thought by replacing the word ‘rarely’ with the word, ‘never.’

    With the above stable datum in mind, after I read your blog post Marty, I found myself asking, what exactly is being healed and what (or who) exactly is doing the healing? The answer was not immediately forthcoming. So I inquired again. After a while, an answer of sorts did begin to take shape, although the meaning may very well be distorted beyond duplication or even altogether lost, through my translation that follows.

    First, consider this: The MEST Universe in its entirety i.e., all its matter, all its energy, all its space, all its time and all of its seemingly endless divisions and sub divisions upon subdivisions…is nothing but an illusion. In other words, it is one big effect and it is not real. Being that it is an effect that would mean that it is being caused and the cause is not to be, nor ever will be, found in the effect. Meaning, just like a frame of movie film is not going to be found up on the silver screen because it never leaves it source i.e., the projector.

    Side note: One could suppose that the effect, from its macro to its micro, would mirror its cause. Perhaps the effect, the illusion, is fractal in design and composition.

    Second: What is the ‘faith’ in faith healing? It seems to me that what one puts their faith in they believe. Thus, for me, faith precedes belief. I suspect that one is never without faith, but what do we choose to put our faith in, that’s the question. To me, regardless of how many choices there appears to be, it always boils down to just two. We either choose to put our faith in the illusion, which we then believe, or we choose to put our faith into something outside the illusion eg., Theta, God, Prime Mover, Great Spirit, etc. and we will believe in that.

    An illusory body with an illusory illness is effect on effect. Group B faith healers appear to put their faith into a belief of the illusion and put illusory energies of the illusion to use to ‘heal’ the illusion. As those belonging to Group B are asserting that they are directing solely their own life force to effectuate the healing, indicates to me that because they have chosen to put their faith into the illusion, that they, of course, believe that their life force is sourced in the illusion and it is capable of healing the unwanted illusion (the malady). In a sense, they’re using a form of magic and I’m not using magic as a pejorative term. I simply mean that the effort to bring about desired changes is occurring at the level of effect, through energy forces and the body, rather than at the level of cause. This must be the case because the energy is operating within a spatio-temporal framework, i.e., from one body to another at a specific time.

    Those belonging to Group A, on the other hand, appear to put their faith into a cause that exists outside and separate from the illusion. Realizing (on some level) that the body and its illness are both illusory, they reach outside the illusion to request ‘Cause’ to change its mind (adjust its projection). The body then appears to ‘heal’ from its illness but, it was the cause not the effect that was actually addressed.

    The fact that Group A had better stats at healing than Group B is interpreted by me as being an endorsement that, in the long run (perhaps the short run too), I will be better for putting my faith, then belief, in Cause rather than Effect.

  67. martyrathbun09

    Yes, but I think obsession with being at ’cause’ can serve as a serious impediment to creation of the desired effect.

  68. Moonshot, I liked it all but I really like this:

    “Not to say that “we are all one,” but rather there is more to theta than we fully understand at our current level of awareness and somehow, though being seperate units, all spiritual/theta energy is also a cohesive force. Not unlike water, which though being comprised of untold numbers of seperate molecules and atoms is also an aggregate thing that has its own nature and potentiality.”

    I suspect that water might just be the ne plus ultra metaphor. It’s another one of those very interesting triangular symbols. For example: two molecules hydrogen, one molecule oxygen – 3 molecules. Solid, liquid, gas (metaphor for ridge, flow, dispersal). Ice, water, gas (metaphor for the holy trinity). Btw, don’t mind me, I’m just playing. 🙂

  69. Chris, faith healing is a general term, a catch all and is a misnomer. There is plenty of evidence to suggest healing occurs even when neither the person healed or healer believe in god per se though the healer believes in a cosmic energy but the patient has no clue either way. I’ve seen it myself, direct observation. It is not positive suggestion or faith but the work of an individual who believes there is a cosmic energy he can utilize.

  70. More than 10 years ago, one of my relatives became very ill, a kind of cancer with a 6 months life expectancy.

    Reading stories about faith healing on the Internet, I thought why not? That cannot be worse.

    So I started praying God daily for the healing of that person, not saying it to that person, not knowing exactly what God is, but with the idea of a supreme entity encompassing all that is.

    Currently this person is still alive, it seems that no other person on Earth lasted that long with that kind of illness.

    I have no way to know whether my prayers worked, but I have done similar other experiences, with sometimes unexpected improvements in the condition of the person I am praying for. But there are also situations where nothing unusual occurs.

    Whether it works or not, prayer is really a deep experience, a direct connection with the spiritual domain.

  71. SKM

    I tend to agree that ultimately the majority of the healing seems to be being done by the being changing their considerations, but there is also the aspect of one being being able to “erase” another being’s pictures, whether the other being is aware that this is being done or not. This seems to suggest the possibility that facsimiles can be altered by external theta (or en-theta actually).

    I have had personal experience, during one of the L12 processes, of handling a “ridge” between myself and another, from my end. I have not asked, but I doubt that the other person is aware of how that ridge dissipated. (I personally do not think this is a valid form of therapy, for the other person, because they were not able to re-evaluate the data on their own terms. When done, one has denied them that degree of self-determinism. Also, since they have not re-evaluated the data for themselves, and it is no longer available to them, they will never be able to do so.)

    Whether there is some powerful external force that can be called into play, or not, I personally feel that ANY time a being assigns any responsibility for his own survival or existence to some other agency, he is in danger of thereafter being the effect of that agency, to some degree. (I note here that some will not consider this a “danger” but rather a benefit. I personally do not.)

    Eric S

  72. Marty: you can confirm I had no idea you were going to write this blog article: “Faith Healing”

    And yet on Monday I sent Mosey some presents which included a book she might let you borrow – some could call it – faith healing. 🙂


  73. I absolutely agree Marty. In fact, I think obsession with anything can serve as a serious impediment to what the ‘anything’ might be. At this time, I’m not so much interested in being at ’cause’ as I am with communicating with ‘Cause’, cooperating with ‘Cause’, assisting and being assisted by ‘Cause’. In addition, making sure that I choose veritable ‘Cause’ and not pseudo ‘Cause.’ I have actually come to a point where I do believe in a veritable ‘Cause.’ Not a ‘Cause’ outside of myself but a ‘Cause’ that…..ummm…..just don’t have any words for this.

  74. I don’t have an “Admin Dictionary” (Modern Management Technology Defined) any longer, but I recall reading the definition on “8th Dynamic” in it many years ago and line charging for about 15 minutes straight! Had to leave the course room….. I don’t believe I’ve seen that definition anywhere else. I’d rather not paraphrase it…. if anyone has this maybe they could quote it here. Suffice it to say, it aligns with what I think is true. Or was LRH just pulling our collective legs?

  75. That is an excellent question.

    I can only say I am stumped.

    I sure would like to know what others think.



  76. I understand. It depends on how many dynamics you are, with humility.

  77. It’s probably anything that convinces the person that they are healed. It’s whatever makes it ok for them to heal themselves I guess.
    Or is there more to it than that? Can one thetan heal another thetans body? I guess it’s possible. Injuries are a little different, but I have the idea that with an illness, and even the healing of injuries lies in the person. They are making themselves sick, unknowingly, and you come along, give them an assist and break that and get them out of it, but really they are doing it. You have a process, or a title, or a fancy robe, or some association with a god that convinces them that it’s ok to change the illness.
    Maybe I’m making it too complex – just thinking out loud.

  78. The source of the healing power in group A is not the healer, but the higher power, so any personal pride or ego attached to the action or result is missing or lessened. That makes it more effective as asking or praying for another benefit is always better received than asking for ones own benefit, not to mention that any higher power or G-d has more horsepower.

  79. One of the interesting points is what is ‘healing?’

    In my mind, it meant ‘cured.’

    Last year, a friend of mine’s 9 year old daughter was diagnosed with an rare form of leukaemia. Believe me, a mother would do anything to save the life of her child. My friend, a devout Catholic, along side some intense chemotherapy, did everything on the spiritual/faith healer menu. She prayed, consulted faith healers. Her daughter died in her arms shortly after her 9th birthday despite all medical and spiritual efforts to save her life.

    I was talking to my friend a few months ago and saying it was a shame the faith healing didn’t work. She said, ‘on the contrary, it did work….’ explaining that her daughter’s passing was peaceful and her own faith in God is a comfort to her.

    So when you talking about ‘results’ or ‘statistics’ am not sure that these can be quantified against an objective criteria, other than, ‘did it help. or, ‘did it not help’ which is probably more subjective anyway.

  80. theosismanides

    I believe the result of Group A being more successful lies in the fact that Dynamics 7 or 8, which are mostly inactive in a middle class thetan nowdays, finally got some connection and they (those thetans under therapy) somehow managed to “connect” to those dynamics….

  81. gretchen dewire

    Interesting post for sure.I am disabled and havnt had anything work yet, but I am still working on it

  82. gretchen dewire

    Even if it is only an illusion

  83. Mark, I really appreciate this post you made. Thank you.

    I came into this lifetime, this ‘Monte’ identity, with a thought system still in place that was not at all favorable to Christianity. Yet, I was incredibly curious about God. Fortunately, I landed in a family that held no rigid religious beliefs. No Bible thumpers or scripture quoting devotees in my family. However, my mom did believe that it was her motherly duty to expose me to the beliefs of Christianity, therefore, it was mandatory that I attend Sunday school on a regular basis. I must say that Sunday school (whatever Protestant one that we lived close to) was an enlightening process in interpretation of the Bible but one that certainly did not bring Christianity into my favor.

    I continued to be most curious about the concept of God but believing that the only way I was going to get to God was through religion was a formidable barrier for me to contend with. Then can Dn, LRH, COS and Scn. I really appreciated that LRH didn’t attempt to define God for me. Basically, I took him to say, “As for God, just follow me and you’ll discover and define God for yourself.” I was good with that. But, as a Scientologist, my curiosity re God, little by little diminished.

    After leaving Scientology, little by little my curiosity about God has resurfaced. Also, after doing a bit of exploring, I realized that I would probably have a better chance at getting to God outside of religion rather than being in it or going through it. In fact, I’m of the mind that the primary purpose of religion is to obscure God by positioning God with fear, judgment, revenge, conflict, suffering, sacrifice, wrath, punishment, eternal punishment and perhaps, most terrifying of all, separation.

    Mark, you wrote: “God is ultimate “Rightness”, Perfection, and Love. ” I too see God through those symbols. And, I too, have come, kicking and screaming, around to prayer. Yes, it is real.

    I currently have a view of myself as being a tiny drop of water out in the middle of the ocean that, even though, I somehow know it’s there, cannot conceive of the actuality of water. And as I zoom in for a closer look to see what might be obscuring my vision, I see that I am encapsulated in a dream. I am having a dream that I am outside of water and I am mistaking the dream for reality. Ironically, my illusory life’s purpose within the dream is to find and discover the true meaning of water.

  84. Dear Ulf, love your wellsubstantiated insight.

    What is your thoughts about the Buddhist concept: “Thus came one/s”?


  85. When you say cosmic energy I think of universes. The idea of the physical universe or “MEST” as you say in Scientology being just an agreed upon thing we have all created. But thetans can exist outside and probably always are somewhat outside that universe. Maybe cosmic energy and/or God is really just us being ourselves, but it seems unusual because it’s somewhat forbidden in this universe.

  86. Ulf u don’t need to know about it to channel some higher source. Just name it and it would register as such to the recipient. The 8 dynamics are not 5 or 6. They are 8. Sorry, I have seen it work and being true.

  87. I read about a double blind study. A group of very religious prayerful people were asked to pray for very Ill hospitalized patients, while other comparable patients were not prayed for. The people that were prayed for showed improvement while the others did not.

  88. For me, the teachings of Abraham answers these questions nicely.

  89. theosismanides

    agreed, dynamics 7 and 8… in other words. I like being “old fashioned”.

  90. Actually you can do something for the being by addressing his havingness, and LRH even in the FOT Book says something about it (Chapter, Parts of Man). But the real “magic” happens by addressing the person (thetan, awarness unit) himself. It’s a different process (and may take longer), but the wins are more lasting.

  91. Marty, I wonder if you have ever read “Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures” by Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science.
    Her viewpoints were very enlightening on my spiritual journey.

    I was never connected to the Christian Science movement so I don’t know how much of her revelations were really implemented into practice after she passed away. The book is worth a read, in any case.

  92. Here is an interesting remark:

    LRH also once recomende, if you want to know about God, read the Bhagavad-Gita. Can anyone confirm with a quote/referenece?

  93. martyrathbun09

    ‘Yo, ring the bell sucker. Schools back in!’ – MC Hammer

  94. I think whoever, whatever created the illness, the source, has to also be the one to change it. Once you author something you are cause over it. People in Scientology think they are healed from various conditions by the Scientology. In fact it is the P.C. who is appealed to, to investigate and make a decision, that brings the final result. All results are gains that are based upon decisions made by the P.C.. It is the P.C. healing or helping himself with guidance. Otherwise Hubbard could have led us to place where we could touch people and clear them.

    On some level, asking for help, or being willing to be helped, is a decision to be bypassed. There is some surrender of authorship there. Or at least an invitation to someone else to co author the existence or condition.

    Anyone who imagines they can cure or heal as the source when they did not solely author the ill is discounting the authorship of another or others. You can bypass and handle to a certain extent.

    By appealing to other influences to effect change, you are appealing to other influences to make a decision. As we are all on the circuit board called “life on Earth”, chances of remedy by appealing to a “source” of all, be that called God or any other entity the ailing person considers source, you will arrive at a connection to the source of the ailment and appeal to that source to make a decision to heal. You will at that point get the ill person or the source of the illness to do a doubt formula on some level. They will decide they want to be a part of the group of healthy people again.

    I do not think group A or group B is the most successful healing group. But one of those groups is more adept at coaxing the sick person to make a decision about improving their condition.

  95. martyrathbun09

    You might like the book I referenced, The Intention Experiment. It has been a while since I read it, but I seem to recall something in there about about physical measurement of intentional energy during prayer being recorded.

  96. martyrathbun09

    I don’t know that it is a misnomer. There is wonderful discussion about the difference between ‘faith’ and ‘belief’ between Lawrence Wright and a renowned healing Baptist Minister (in the book Saints and Sinners) that makes ‘faith’ seem a apropos to me. The minister riffs along the lines of this Webster’s definition: b (1): fidelity to one’s promises (2): sincerity of intentions

  97. Perhaps the less success group assigns themselves ownership of the healing, and the more successful group understands that someone or something else needs to assume some of the ownership of the healing.
    I think ownership of the condition is the key.

  98. Is this the definition from Modern Management Technology Defined that you are referring to?

    EIGHTH DYNAMIC, superior life beings is all that is a dynamic of. There always are going to be superior life beings around so it is a dynamic, a definite dynamic. (SH Spec 30, 6407C15)

  99. Hello Eric.
    The question is, while you blew the ridge between you and the other guy, was this “healing” or you just stopped to injure him with your power beams. Haha.

    I agree with what you said. Self-Determinism, and gradual acceptance of the abilities of the person is the correct route.
    Otherwise you can only clean up some of the veneer but certainly not free the person. You do something for the “environment” of the person, but will the person ever notice? It’s important to work with the approachability of the person.

    BTW. Ron speaks of “magical” processes (PTS/SP Tech) where you run the processes up to the point when the SP/Antagonist stopps being antagonistic and contacts you. But you see, actually you are “healing” yourself (i.e. the PC), not the antagonist.

  100. This one balks understanding. What the H is it?


  101. There is the same definition as in FOT.

    “The eighth dynamic—is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being.

    It is carefully observed here that the science of Scientology does not intrude into the dynamic of the Supreme Being.

    This is called the eighth dynamic because the symbol of infinity ∞ stood upright makes the numeral “8 .” This can be called the infinity or God dynamic.”

    Did you mean this?

  102. Hi Sara, thanks for sharing the story of your friend and her daughter. It illuminates the fact that miracles do not always (perhaps, even, rarely) show up in form. A mother knowing that her daughter experienced a peaceful death and one finding comfort in their faith in a higher power, do not lend themselves to being quantified. We seem to have a tendency to fixate on form and give it possibly much more meaning and value than is appropriate and thereby limiting our view.

  103. When I was 18 years old, there was an old man named Earl in my church. Earl was dying of cancer and the entire church was praying for Earl to be healed by God.

    Earl was praying to be healed as he did not want to die.

    This drama went on for several months as the congregation lifted Earl up in prayer. We actually had a 24 hour prayer team so that Earl was ever-present before the Throne of God through the prayers of the Saints.

    I pulled some very late night shifts for Earl because I did not want to see him die. The older people in the Church would get up at 3:00 AM to pray for Earl. This was a big group effort and united our Church in a common goal to show God that we were a people of faith bound to help each other.

    Earl was undergoing chemotherapy because our denomination (the Assemblies of God) believed that God uses doctors and medicines. Earl was rallying. He was in good spirits comforted as he was by the Community of Believers and his relationship with Christ.

    Earl died suddenly one morning.

    The disappointment was crushing.

    Our pastor said that God had called Earl home. Therefore, it was not God’s will to heal Earl.

    But then why hadn’t God just told someone so we could have skipped months of prayer?

    I stopped believing in faith healing after Earl died as it was a waste of time to even ask a capricious God. Soon, I soon quit believing in prayer because the fact is that I did all of the work anyway. God never did anything. I eventually stopped believing altogether and left Christianity.

    The few real “healers” I have met have all been shamans, sadhus, or gurus. These people are “fire-spitters” who transmit the Shaktipat (or whatever you want to call it) by touch. They literally jolt people when they touch them. These people personalize the Shaktipat as Goddess Energy or as the Kundalini (the serpent energy):

    One of the characteristics of being “healed” by one of these people is that the Shaktipat unleashes all of repressed psychic content in a person that was causing physical distress. Thus, the person being healed has to deal with whatever the Shaktipat kicked loose in them.

    This type of healing is comprehensive and is far more meaningful and real to me than the Christian model of faith healing in which the Christian Divinity is said to instantly heal and yet makes no demand upon the person healed.

    Reflecting back on Earl’s death years later, I realized that neither Earl nor we as a Church ever once looked at why Earl got cancer. Was it diet? Was it a deeply repressed energy such as hatred? Etc.

    The fact is that we were a bunch of legalist Christians. Therefore, the entire Church assumed that God was contractually and legally obligated to heal Earl, this because God is bound to what he said in the Bible. We kept our part of the contract and therefore Earl should have lived.

    Earl was probably the most shocked of anyone when he died because he really did do all of the Christian legal work very much by the book. He was “confessing in faith” right up to his last hours on Earth that God had already healed him and that he, Earl, was simply waiting in faith for the manifestation of God’s healing to appear.

  104. ~A perspective from a doer, in answer to your question:

    I have enjoyed reading the viewpoints and scholarship presented here. Let me present my viewpoint as a Group A healer for 45 years and a Sci’ist for nearly that long. It has been my pleasure to watch bruises shrink, sunburns fade, cuts heal over, toothaches disappear, etc etc while working both directly and remotely.

    A Group B healer, using his own ‘chi’, can use it up faster than it can be naturally replaced. The body in that case tries to replenish it by taking energy flows from the patient, which of course includes the energy imprint of the illness. The healer can actually acquire the illness him/herself, besides becoming depleted.

    The Group A healer has access to an infinite supply of energy, limited mostly by one’s ability to hold concentration for a length of time.

    I find it works best by operating in two areas at once. One is the vibrational color frequency of the ‘chi’ depending on what the injury or illness needs – this is purely at the dense level of mechanics. The other is to encode the energy with an intention of wellness and wholeness, NOT as an intention of ‘healing’, but as a reinforcing of the original well and healthy condition.

    I have never tried to operate as a Group B healer, as the limitations are so blindingly obvious to me, plus the Group A techniques I’ve grown work so well in relieving pain and restoring organic harmony, thereby reducing a Thetan”s body-PTP.


  105. Sara this is an important point. Because many of us have seen people who are ill, healed through prayer, auditing, faith – when someone doesn’t “heal” and dies or remains disabled, we are too quick to say – “the person sabotaged his own healing, or didn’t pray enough, or believe enough”

    Which becomes arrogant at best and actually could be cruel at worst.

    Ken Wilber’s wife Traya died after working with the medical professional, alternative care advanced cures, new cures from Germany and endless prayer and meditation. Together they “fought” hard to keep her alive … She died after 5 years.

    Ken said the hardest thing for him was the almost endless evaluation as to why she died.

    Tibetan Buddhists believe that illness takes its in 4 ways:

    1). Get sick, do nothing and you are better
    2). Get sick, consult the medical professions of the time and get better
    3). Get sick #1 and 2 are exhausted, so work with healing prayers, shamen, faith healers
    4). 1-3 exhausted, person is still ill – make the person comfortable, help with the transition to next life – the persons this life “time line” is over – nothing could have been done (which is not to say one should not try) because there is no more time to is life)


  106. God, The Supreme Being is real. It is not a mental projection, religious superstition, primitive cultural hold over.

    God can be experienced. God can be known. When human beings grow tired of the toys of mortal human life and find time after time that our most cherished possessions, relations, bodies etc promise happiness but always end in loss, we ask the questions, “what it is all about, where did all this come from (not just intellectually know theories of church doctrines)”, humans turn towards spiritual life.

    It could be postulated that Scientology went off the rails when God went out the door.

    To have an intimate relation with that dynamic is beyond words. The states of being that are experienced when a direct connection is made through meditation is what each and every one of us has been craving, life after life.

    Causeless love, causeless joy, causeless wisdom, awareness of our immortal nature. Freedom from the constrictions of matter.

    I have not arrived at the goal, but in my 40 years of practice I can truly say that all the answers to all questions are found in these higher inner states of being.

    Imagine, your most joyful experience in auditing being prolonged throughout the day. Being able to aquire that state whenever you want: for free, anywhere, anytime.

    But the hunger must be there. Like a drowning man craving air. God is the air. We Are That

  107. There is some discounting of God as an imaginary via for healing, I think because of the acceptance of Ron’s viewpoint that there is no God, no “big thetan in the sky”. As in the movie, “Contact”, there is only “us” and we only have each other. It seemed to me for some time that this was true until personal experience had me question my assumptions. I did not so much come to believe in God, as I began to perceive him. I saw that He was far because I had kept him far and had nulllified his existence. I realize this perception seems quite subjective as one cannot directly impart it, so one can take it or leave it or chalk it up to an implant. But I think our attention is absorbed by so many things in modern society, it is often hard to be still and quiet long enough to listen for his voice, And when life seems to be humming along, why even bother?

    As far as healing, while there is certainly benefit from our own power or applying assists, (Thomas Aquinas said that God who is Cause gave us the dignity of being Cause as well), I found in an extreme situation when my canine sister was suffering terribly, that the assists or the “laying on” of my hands could only help so much, applying them as correctly and as standardly as I could. Though not a “believer” at the time, I remembered something about invoking the name of Jesus Christ, and thought that perhaps there was some endowment of theta attached to his name. Well, I invoked away, and to my surprise, the furry creature finally began to get well, though I doubt she had any particular religious beliefs either. A few years later, I experienced what I can only describe here as an unexpected “intercession”, which bought me at least a bit more time on Earth and allowed me to write this comment. The miracles at Lourdes suddenly became very real to me.

    Christ did say more than once, “Go, your faith has healed you”, so evidently faith or belief is a component, but then, faith in what? What if thetans were created by a Source called God, not a Santa Claus that says “yes” to every prayer, but a being of pure love that created us as individuals with free wills and great abilities? Could it be possible that we do indeed live in a society formed by space opera, but that there are also things that may be happening on Earth and the universes on other levels, in a purely spiritual realm? Could we be allowed to fail and suffer and die in this game of life, but might there also be a being of last recourse who could aid in healing? I don’t have all the answers, but just posing some questions…

  108. That is a powerful tale. Also parallels with the OSA purpose to kill off others so the Scientology can work.

  109. Yes, that’s it. I think a rather different viewpoint than the FOT definition.

  110. When I got the hang of solo auditing, if one of my kids became ill, (very rare but it did happen once or twice in severe climate / temperature change in the mountains where we were living) , I would wait until they went to sleep and then set up my meter beside them and audit them by touch the same way I solo audited myself. They usually recovered by the morning.

  111. I like this video.
    I recommend watching at least a couple minutes of it.
    I helped a guy get rid of a head ache once by getting him to feel exactly where the pain was, really exactly getting where the pain was, and then telling him “make it go away”, I assumed he had his paws around it and was concentrating cause it worked.
    I used it on myself for years, unless I forgot I could do it, which happened from time to time, and depending on my confidence, or perhaps I made it up and it was a coincidence.
    Anyway here’s a good vid:

  112. Wow! I wouldn’t be able to account for that. Unless the group that was prayed for knew that they were being prayed for and they were all very religious in that religion. Lets say if the patients were dedicated Catholics and the prayers were Catholic. Was that the case?

  113. Back in the late 60s and early 70s there was a group called Silva Method Mind Control that focused on this exact point. It was all about duplicating some activity – like piano lessons, or working mathematics equations – and gaining expertise through intention and mental practice rather than physical activity. They firmly believed that the mind and the cosmic energy that was being focused through it was the source and cause of any miracle. And if I recall correctly they practiced healing through this methodology as well.

  114. That was beautiful! Thanks, Bryan.

  115. I tend to think of the 8th Dynamic as the limitless inexhaustible all-encompassing potential of creation. But it does not act independently. It only acts via us. We are inextricably linked to it and are of it. We are not it yet are of it its same nature and exist within its sphere.

    We are all “agents of God”, so to speak. The 8th dynamic exists, but it acts only through us. Therefore all that we see and sense is “realized” by the unlimited power of God made manifest by our collective and individual considerations and postulates.

    As one uses the KRC and ARC triangles to increase his sphere of influence and thus occupy a larger space within the unlimited space of the 8th Dynamic, his postulated reality will obtain over a larger and larger spherical spatial area.

    Likewise, if one allows the vast unlimited potential of creation to flow through him and can intelligently direct it to healing others, miracles can and do occur. This would be direct healing and would work best as a mutually agreed upon or Pan-Determined action. Auditing is a more empathic activity designed to restore the individual’s self-determined volitional control – as described in Act One.

  116. J. Swift
    Great post.

  117. SKM

    I definitely see your point about who was being healed in my example. I know that I stopped creating the flow, for sure. I suppose there still might be the question as to whether the other person was actually actively producing the opposing flow, or if I was actually producing both, and simply ceased to do so.

    Back in the early seventies we had Peter Gillham visit our mission and do a seminar. ( I think it was his “Tell It Like It Is” seminar)
    One of the drills that we did on the course went like this…
    We pared up, and sat facing each other. Both people were instructed to flow hate at the other person and notice what happened. We both felt a definite ridge form between us. (we both seemed to have been pretty good at the “hate” thing.) The next step was set up the same, and we were instructed to flow hate again, until the ridge formed. Then one of us, (agreed upon in advance) without informing the other person as to when, was to cease flowing hate and start flowing affinity, or love, if you will. We actually did this turn-about. We both found it virtually impossible to continue to flow hate against the flow of affinity, because there simply was nothing to flow the hate “against”, and we inevitably ended up laughing.

    I recommend one try it. It is an amazing experience, and a very interesting tool as well, should one choose to use it.

    Eric S

  118. excuse me?

  119. Group A has more intention on average then B. Perhapes since group A member is likley more concerned and compasionate as he is stronger being part of a whole.

  120. Martin

    Back in the old days at our mission, if you had a headache the ED would ask you where it was, then tell you to purposely create the headache, using its own matter, energy, space, and time. Of course it vanishes before you get very far on that one.

    Another one was to find the location of the headache and move it to another location in the head (to start). It didn’t matter where you moved it, just move it. Again… perhaps effective because you are demonstrating your control over it by moving it.

    Another one is simply to get the feeling of the energy of the headache dissipating.

    Of course, you could also flow it affinity…. you can also just flow aesthetics into it… or get an idea of its “tone” and simply raise its tone…. or if it looks black, or perhaps grey, just “turn it white”.

    Lots of cool tools for dissipating charge, all found within the “tech” of Scientology. Find the one(s) that work best for you, and have fun with them.

    Eric S

  121. It’s easy to talk big. A bit different when you live every day with your child suffering a terrible disability. All the faith healers I ever took her to were as powerless as the next man. I wish that was not true, but that was the case. Anybody who wants to prove otherwise is free to do so. But nobody can. Nobody has that power. To give people false hope is cruel beyond belief.

  122. No one actually knows. Sometimes people pray and they live. Sometimes people pray and they die. I’ve known a number of OTs who have died hard deaths in their 40s and 50s (a recent OT8 in her 60s from a massive stroke). Some folks get healed with auditing, some don’t. Some people take care of their bodies and live long, and yet I knew a guy who smoked like a chimney and lived to 90. You do the best you can, live as healthy as you can, stay as un-PTS as you can, and see what has shaken out of the DNA tree. George Gershwin and Mozart died in their mid 30s, but Hitler’s movie maker, Leni Riefenstahl made it to 100. So it’s not always just your overts.

  123. I’ve always agreed with Ron on the God thing, but most people seem to really like having a powerful terminal with them all the time, that they feel looks out for them, has a plan for them, loves them, heals them and sometimes even helps their favorite sports teams win. And if he doesn’t do these things on occasion? Well, he acts in mysterious ways and answers to his own designs which we will know eventually. There are tons of outpoints in the God ideas as described by the great religions of Earth. But it is undeniably a popular idea with many, and that in itself may work on healing. Of course, there really could BE a God, and maybe she just likes some folks more than others.

  124. Interesting conjecture, Eric S, where you write: “but there is also the aspect of one being being able to “erase” another being’s pictures, whether the other being is aware that this is being done or not.”

    I once heard an Eastern guru propose that Jesus was an enlightened master who attempted to take on the karma of the world. In Scientology terms, I suppose one could picture that as a keyed-out OT attempting to as-is the banks of others through total ARC.

    But can a keyed-out OT _erase_ the bank of another, or simply key others out? I lean toward the latter, because until one can stop reactively creating one’s own mental traps, one is only keyed out (not a put down — it’s a great state by any name) and the state may be (and probably is) going to be unstable.

  125. Add this below to the mix of this great thread. As we can see, when it comes to this subject, it brings us beyond your “little” selves..
    (Marty, you might also read Lynn McTaggert’s first book, “The Field”)


  126. I agree with the interesting points you are raising. One of many points you wrote resonated with me: “An illusory body with an illusory illness is effect on effect.”

    In that spirit (pun intended), I would say that an illusory self invoking illusory power would naturally have less effect than an authentic self / non-dualistic self touching even a tiny bit of the infinite power of theta.

    I do personally believe, because I have seen it, that we are not one from one view, but from another view, we are all connected. Any healer tapping into that connection has more power than even his or her authentic self can summon.

    If we are like separate fingers on the same hand, how much more strength does the entire hand and all the fingers together have than one finger operating in the illusion of separation — or, if you will, close proximity but mystery?

  127. You bet, Aeolus! I always get great feedback from this gem. Please do spread the word. 🙂

  128. The findings that Marty brings up, whereby healers who conjured a higher level of spirit beyond their own were more effective than those directed solely by their own life force brings up another question, beyond healing.

    Does the phenomenon discovered by this study apply just to healing, or also to other endeavors like personal/spiritual transformation? Do people who conjure a higher level of spirit beyond their own get transformed in a deeper and broader way than those who are directed solely by their own life force?

    And, if yes, then what are the implications for leading one’s life? Is realization a product of surrender (i.e to a superior power) or a product of will and personal power?

    After all, if a certain dynamic works for healing, since its such a fundamental dynamic, one would think the same dynamic is at play across many fields of human endeavor..

    This reminds me of this quote from Lao Tzu Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.

  129. I bet one common factor in all the cases is a belief by the patient that something supernatural was possible. Whether that meant god would heal them through the hands of the healer, or the auditor would help them by addressing the thetan, they probably all let themselves believe that something out of the ordinary was possible.

  130. Yes, that is what the Chi or Qi healers do. The first level of developing chi is to basically unblock and make healthy the flow channels of chi whithin ones own body. The next level is to increase the flow of chi into the body from external sources or ambient chi. The next is to be very aware of chi and be able to control its movement within ones own body at will. Then next again is to be able to direct chi outwards (this can be used for defense, attack, or healing). From there one can master the ability to direct chi within anothers body and work to unblock channels therein. This can be achieved mechanically through accupuncture, but advanced chi/qi practitioners can do it through intention driven manipulation of chi within and without their own bodies and those of others.

  131. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    Dox? As I recall it, there were no significant results.

    Wait… how could that be a double-blind study? Did they pray for Anonymous Patient 1138 to get better, Hail “Bob”!? In a proper double-blind study, Patient 1138 might not even be sick. In double-blind tests, no one is supposed to know who is getting the real thing and who is getting the placebos (until you check the records later). How did they arrange for placebo prayers (and possibly placebo gods). A proper study into which gods are the most effective to pray to: Why hasn’t anyone done this basic science?!

    *Seriously*, people need to be a lot more skeptical and examining about the factoids that float across the newsverse. Especially the ones that pretend to be scientific.

  132. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    Oh dear lord. Psychic surgery. Hasn’t this been debunked enough yet? Can’t we just toss in it the bin with the Orgone stuff?

  133. I think, however, a distinction should be made here.

    This type of healing i would not place in the realm of faith healing, per se. Chi is a pretty well documented phenomena and is basically, i believe, bio-electric energy manipulated by intention.

    Faith healing, more properly is more of spiritual in nature. Pure intention, whether ones own or in combination with other spiritual entities or dieties.

  134. I had someone “faith heal” me somewhat with a bad headache. An interesting experience. I was fairly new to Scientology and in my local org with an absolutely excrutiating hangover. A few Sea Org people were there trying to recruit public staff up that org. One of them was a nice Hispanic or possibly Spanish man. He had a lot of ARC although I didn’t understand that concept at the time. Anyway I submitted to his request for a comm cycle about joining staff, which I had no intention of doing, but because he was easy to talk to and acknowledged me well and was generally a good listener he kept me in comm and I shared with him that my head was absolutely splitting from too much whatever I had drunk the nite before. He acked this in a pleasant way and we 2WC’d some more about something or other for about 10 more minutes, and then I noticed that my head was not pounding as painfully as before, there was a difference, it still hurt but it was less intense whereas before it had been unbearable. I said nothing about this to him as we were still chatting back and forth and then he said,, “How does your head feel now?” Open-mouthed at his question,, I answered, “Better! Better, actually!” At which he just smiled a bit and nodded. “Why did you ask me that? I asked him. “Because I located it”, he replied. Well! Not having any idea at that time what “locating” a headache could mean, I just stared at him with my mouth open and said, “Thanks!”. And, frankly, I still wouldn’t know how to “locate” a pain in someone’s body though I now now that it means finding its source. So that was my one experience..

  135. Brilliant. Thanks for sharing that, Bryan. My work is technical in nature, and I used to program computers for a living. There were times when I was in what some call “Flow” – where I was totally absorbed in the creative process of tackling this code, and putting it in place. There were times when the solution would jump out – or, when I would just know where a bug was located, even though there was no rational reason pointing me to it. This is not the same as the divine dancer – but there was magic in it. It is a gift – and I mean gift, not ability.

  136. Thanks, Marty. I really appreciate where you are going. I am reading Lawrence Wright’s goddamn book – and I have to say that it is a hell of a book. I am at the point where you enter the picture, quite dramatically.

    The process of your blog, of “coming out” as independent, of facing the death of some very, very close friends and family in the last few years, of looking at my own involvement in this crazy thing called Scientology, has been a hell of a ride. I am realizing that we are all warriors in this game – we all put all of ourselves into this, and some of us left parts of ourselves behind. I think of Captain Bill as a casualty of this war (and I mean a holy war, as in “A mission from God.”). I have good friends who have died – I found out recently that my good friend David Johnson died years ago, and I mourn him (and his wife, Linda Varner Johnson). He was a casualty – cancer, SO member. I am beginning to think that LRH was a casualty, too.

    But, the fight was good, and the fight is good. I can see readers of Wright’s book thinking “what the hell? How crazy can you get?” And I think – that which is good in Scientology is really good, and it took someone like Ron to coax it out of the Cosmos.

  137. I am reading the “Master Key System” by Charles F. Haanel writen in 1912…. Amazing work…..

  138. My thoughts are this Marty…

    One of the first things we, as a species, created as a significant improvement in our mutual survival potential was agriculture. This occurred about 6,000 years ago and we are still struggling to feed a large portion of humanity.

    Ergo, if we only recently (in evolutionary terms) started discovering, exploring and studying the existence of our mind, spirit and the life force beyond the physical… well… who on this earth today or yesterday can “know” such that they can prove or disprove the existence of “_________” (god, etc).

    I’m a just grateful there are travellers such as yourself who’s journey will help us all grow.

    God willing of course…;-)

  139. A is simply quantity of theta and involves all the dynamics. It’s a set of positive postulmates tha

  140. “A” is simply quantity of theta and involves all the dynamics. It’s a set of positive postulates that have been made and agreed upon at one time or another and have been held in place throughout time.

    “B” depends on quantity of theta the healer has at his disposal. It depends on his theta/entheta ratio.

  141. What’s the real significance of circles and diamonds?

  142. Yes. Very nice, indeed.

    This reminds me of a story from my life.
    This was long ago and I had a physical fight with someone.
    It wasn’t my intention to fight against this guy and I couldn’t figure out first, what caused him to be mad about me. The fight was broken up by external terminals (the whole thing was in a discotheque).
    Some days later I found in a city-mag a picture of this guy, I left the page of the mag open for some time. I looked at the picture and raised my tone-level towards this guy, up to a point where I could feal true admiration for him. I took full responsibility for the fight, had a cognition and then I was able to grant him beingness.
    The next time I met him (and I met him the first time when he started to fight with me) he was amazingly friendly to me. He respectfully said hallo and did it ever since. We had some conversations later but we never brought up what happend before. This was magic.

  143. Reference of Interest:

    INTENTION, 1. an intention is something that one wishes to do.
    He intends to do it; it’s an impulse toward something; it’s an
    idea that one is going to accomplish something. It’s intentional,
    which means he meant to do it, he means to do it. (SH Spec 83,
    6612C06) 2. intention is the command factor as much as anything
    else. If you intend something to happen it happens if you intend
    it to happen. Verbalization is not the intention. The intention is
    the carrier wave which takes the verbalization along with it.
    (Abil 270) 3. degree of relative beingness which an individual
    desires to assume as plotted on the tone scale. (5203CM04A)

    L. Ron Hubbard
    1975 Reprinted 1987 p. 212


    A Scientologist is a specialist in spiritual and human affairs.

    Scientology can demonstrate that it can attain the goals set for man by
    Christ, which are: Wisdom, Good Health, and Immortality.

    By spiritual means, but means which are as precise as mathematics, a host of bad
    conditions of life may be remedied in Scientology. Illness and malfunction can be
    divided into two general classes. First, those resulting from the operation of the spirit
    directly upon the communication networks of life or the body, and those occasioned by
    the disruption of structure through purely physical causes. Unhappiness, inability to
    heal, and psychosomatic illness (which include some seventy percent of the illnesses of
    man), are best healed by immediate address of the human spirit. Illness caused by
    recognizable bacteria and injury in accident are best treated by physical means, and
    these fall distinctly into the field of medicine, and are not the province of Scientology,
    except that accidents and illness and bacterial infection are predetermined in almost all
    cases by spiritual malfunction and unrest. And, conditions in accidents are definitely
    prolonged by any spiritual malfunction. Thus we have the field of medicine addressing
    the immediate injury, such surgical matters as birth and acute infection, and such things
    as contusions and abrasions resulting from accidents, as well as the administration of
    drugs and antibiotics to prevent the demise of the patient in a crisis. This is the role of
    Where predisposition to disease or injury exists, or where disease or injury is
    being prolonged, or where unhappiness and worry causes mental or physical upset, or
    where we desire to better and improve communications or social relationships, we are
    dealing, if we are efficient, in the realm of Scientology. For such things are best healed,
    or best prevented, or best remedied by immediate and direct recourse to the spirit and its
    action and determinism of the course of the body.

    The only truly therapeutic agent in this universe is the spirit.

    The mission of Scientology is to raise the knowingness of
    this spirit to such a degree that it again
    knows what it is and what it is doing, and in this state the thetan can apply directly to
    his own body, or to his environment, or to the bodies of others, the healing skill of
    which he is capable. It is the thetan which builds and constructs, it is the thetan which
    forms actual forms and organisms.

    Amongst the capabilities and potentials of the thetan is immortality in full
    knowingness of his own identity. The amount of time which he has spent on earth, and
    the number of deaths through which he has gone, have brought him into a state of
    forgetfulness about who and where he has been. This material is recovered in
    Scientology, if the Scientologist specifically processes toward it.

    L. Ron Hubbard
    Ability magazine Major 1

  144. I don’t know about Group “A” or “B” but after reading this entry “A-E” is starting to look more and more appealing. 😛

  145. I see 2 terminals (could be diamonds) hold apart in some distance from each other.
    What do you see?

  146. Mickey, thanks much for this addition to the thread! I watched the short vid and will watch the other later. He got my interest. The manner in which he is describing, the words and how he is arranging the concepts, very much resonates with me. Something else to go and explore. 🙂

  147. i studies some of the SMMC materials in the early 80’s. Alot of self-hypnosis and guided imagery stuff.

    You a Dean Kootnz fan? One of my all time favorite authors.

  148. Well done.

  149. This reply is directed to Christine too.

    There is another point (question) that is raised in your story Sara and I was reminded of it when I read what Joe Pendelton wrote: “No one actually knows. Sometimes people pray and they live. Sometimes people pray and they die.” This is the question of destiny or fate.

    When I use these words, which is rare, I tend to use them interchangeably much like I do with eternity and infinity. However, I did suspect that, like the concepts of morals and ethics, they weren’t as interchangeable as I thought. So I looked and found this general definition that works for me:

    Fate ‘“ the preordained course of your life that will occur because of or in spite of your actions.
    Destiny ‘“ a set of predetermined events within your life that you take an active course in shaping.

    I have almost 62 yrs of illusory life in my illusory past that, until rather recently, I consider to be a journey through time and space that was more than a little random. A while back, though, I began actively inspecting my illusory journey and it dawned on me that it wasn’t random at all. In fact, it appears that I have been following a carefully laid out script. And this is a script that was obviously not written by my ‘Monte identity.’ Monte is a POV from inside a body, is limited to a 5 sense field of perception, puts one foot in front of the other and makes history with each step. But Monte’s POV is so narrow that he hasn’t a clue what’s in his best interests. Basically Monte is tantamount to being a Ken doll. One day something will happen to Monte and he will be cleared from the gameboard. This is in the script. But perhaps it is also written in the script, that when this “something” happens to Monte other people will be involved and they will try in earnest to ‘save’ or ‘heal’ Monte but to no avail. That wasn’t in the script but it was in their script that they would be there and do what they did and that the experience would impact them in some way that was meaningful in the much, much more expanded view of the gameboard.

    As I often say to myself…it is never about what I think it’s about. Btw, it used to creep me out referring to myself in the third person but I got over that. Monte is not ME. Monte only channels ME.

  150. Simple; one group includes more dynamics hence has more agreement.

    Or …

  151. One of the many definitions of God that may help differentiate from the bearded angry dude in the sky:

    “God is the invisible vibrating intelligence that permeates all persons and places, things and spaces”. Yogananda

    This is a definition of God as imminent in creation. There are definitions that discribe the God dynamic beyond creation as well.

    But think of God like this: to have the game of chess you need one board seperated into many individual squares. The one board made many squares in which to create the intelligent game of chess.

    God is both the oneness of the board undifferentiated (The Static beyond all form) and is also all the individual squares playing the game (immanent in creation).

    In order for God/Static to play a game (life) it had to multiply itself into individual forms (separate squares).

    If you put 10 pots filled with water beneath a full mooned sky and look into the pots you will find each pot individually reflects the moon. Are they different moon? No, but they are reflected in different pots.

    In the same way we, as individuated Spirit/God/Static are relections of the Supreme Being within our little body receptacles.

    But ultimately there is really only one undifferentiated board in the chess game. The squares are made for the game.

    Therefore, there is only one God making the infinite multiplicity of forms in life.

    God is our own essence, the source of all things manifest and unmanifest, with qualities of love, joy, wisdom, freedom, intuitive knowledge, power as our true nature. The goal of every sentient creature. Back home again!

    Tat Tvam Asi- Thou Art That

  152. Insigthfull. I agree.

  153. I like your fingers and hand metaphor. It’s very useful. But, one excellent metaphor deserves company. Meaning, you have given me all the justification I require to go off onto another tangent. 🙂 Btw, I have come to view the whole cockeyed MEST Universe illusion as one big ass metaphor that is continually dividing and subdividing itself into more of what it is.

    I have this metaphor regarding intuition where it is located up in the crow’s nest on an old schooner. Intuition symbolizes my small amount of unencumbered free theta (I give it 1 percent). The rest of me, 99 percent encumbered theta, is located on the decks of the ship. The environment on the deck of the ship is typically tumultuous and constantly demands my attention. Indeed, my attention is riveted to the upheavals occurring, not only on the various decks of the ship but down in the ship’s hold as well. From intuition’s post up in the crow’s nest it has the advantage of being out of the din. It has a vantage point that allows it a clear view of where the ship has been, where it is and what it’s sailing into. Intuition is constantly sending messages down to the theta on the ship but these messages, because the theta there is so encumbered, are rarely received and if they are received they’re often invalidated or misinterpreted. The ocean, in this metaphor, is heavily populated with all manner of ships with each having it’s own version of a crow’s nest and it’s own seemingly independent intuition. Unseen by encumbered theta, there is a line that extends from each crow’s nest to a place that is not a place at all, but an awareness outside of time and space where all intuition is connected as one.

    Speaking of intuition….

    A couple of years ago as I was walking barefoot across my living room, I came to a sudden stop. Intuition then gave me a somewhat comical metaphor via thought. I thought…I am not a lone big toe. I am a big toe that is connected to a foot that is connected to a leg and so on it went making its way all the way up to the head. I got it! For several weeks after this ‘download’, images and references of big toes kept showing up in my environment. But something else happened that was very surprising to me. I stopped considering myself as a lone, independent big toe and I began to communicate with the foot (what I considered to be my higher self). And I felt completely okay in asking for help and guidance from this awareness of me located high ‘up the pole’. The generosity I have received from this higher awareness of me has been remarkable!

    From my POV within the illusory world, the bulk of me is on the ship and one percent of intuition is outside of time and space attempting to wake me up. From my POV outside of time and space, there is no illusory world to be perceived. I have just stuck my big toe, for only an instant, into the lake of pristine water I am walking next to.

  154. Ulf, I hope you mean that if you feel like writing one day, you’ll share it with ALL of us. I don’t think I’m the only one whose interest you’ve piqued with these comments of yours.

  155. I understand what you mean, and I think some believe in God through indoctrination rather than as a personal experience or spiritual connection. I also think way too many good or bad things are attributed to God, and certainly asking help for a sports team seems a bit silly, other than perhaps asking for one’s team to be able to play their best. Personally, I don’t like or dislike the idea of having a powerful terminal or terminals, I’m just interested in what is. God (who contains both male and female attributes) may indeed prefer those who don’t mock him, and I think determining his existence may be a question of awareness that comes from experience. As some say, it might be a grace…

  156. Faith healing is a great phenomena, a key-out, in rare cases a permanent one, but it can’t be anything but a key-out, except, just as rare (almost never) an erasure of the engram. Like Hiroshima, which didn’t really solve anything, rather wasted a lot of life.

    As harsh as I know that must sound, the tech is the tech that resolves, so far as we can know, unless someone else has a mystery button to push.

  157. Great reference Gunner.

  158. Kevin…………. LOL

  159. Thanks, Monte. “Religion” can be positive rather than negative. There are religious groups that are very inclusive.
    Water is a good analogy. “What is the meaning of life?” is a hell of a question. One reason “Science” and “Rationality” don’t work for me is because their answer to this questions is: There is no meaning of life, and we are an accident. Carl Sagan’s “Pale Blue Dot” ( ) is an exercise in telling us how small, minute, miniscule we are.

    However, without life, there is nothing. Without us, the universe does not exist. The Pale Blue Dot is not some spec in the Cosmos. It is the only place that we currently know of that validates the existence of everything else. Without the Pale Blue Dot, everything else doesn’t matter.

    I really like Alan Watts’ description of God – that we are how God experiences His creation. Everything is God, essentially, and we are the little periscopes that pop up to look around and experience it, and Him. Where I differ is that I believe we are unique beings, whereas the tradition has us part of a pool of, well, water. Ah, but what the “bleep” do we know? (Good movie, but the way!)

  160. “Monte is not ME. Monte only channels ME.”


  161. Tat Tvam Asi is sanskrit. I’ve used it before in these posts. It means: whatever truth is, what ever the goal of life is, whatever is moving us up a little higher, whatever spirit, God, Theta, Static………. Whatever……

    That is what we are. It is not seperate from us. Thou Art That!

  162. I like that analogy. I look at it like this: Each of us has infinite potential. But if there are two of us, that’s two infinite potentials. A group of infinite potentials has more power than one infinite potential. I know the math doesn’t work, but the concept does – there is power in help and it is a good thing to partner up with people – and theta.

  163. I wonder where the notion of God having to have a game came from?

  164. Okay, I just finished watching the longer hour + video. Superb! And so funny! I don’t think you could find a more appropriate video for this thread.

  165. Dear SKM,

    Unless someone actually have the explanation, I settle for don’t know.


  166. I agree with Dan.

    LRH claims in one bulletin that Scientology’s results are well above the normal allowed placebo effect ratio, but in my hindsight view of my 27 years on staff, I’d say Scientology overall was at best, placebo effect ration positive.

    One article about placebo, which says it all, for me:

    And then on McTaggert, I place her accordingly to these links:

  167. Thanks!

  168. I hear you Theo and that is true for me too in some cases, I still hold by my perception from that specific instance that it was her own belief/intention that healed her not some 7th or 8th dynamic influence. Of course I could be wrong and it certainly is possible, but that was my own perception of what happened.

  169. Not sure that it would be that interesting, but if I write it down I will share it with Marty and if he feels it worthy of posting then it can of course be read by all but currently I don’t have the time for more than a few comments…

  170. Don’t have much thoughts other than it being one of about 10 various names given to all the Buddhas of the ten directions and the three periods of time based on their belief system.

  171. There are a lot of fascinating things about those symbols, but I rather study what the symbols represent than their various fascinating interpretations, conspiracies, etc, however curious they may be.

  172. Opinions differ on the credibility of Ms. Taggart’s “research’….

  173. martyrathbun09

    The opening line of your ‘credibility check’ speaks volumes to its own credibility: “Naturally, I become suspicious of a book that demeans and cheapens science by putting religion on a pedestal, and claiming that “ancient myth” knew something all along that science is just now discovering…”

  174. martyrathbun09

    Chuck, the problem with the standards of your sources, and apparently with your own, is that they negate subjective transcendent experiences of those who seek. Love ya man, but the hard core ‘science is threatened by the notion of something beyond’ is just so passe.

  175. martyrathbun09

    Not even the sky is the limit…

  176. Of course, you’re right. Me too.
    That’s why I wouldn’t interpret symbols for others.
    And also that’s why I’d like to know if anyone could add data on how the CST Logo came about. Something in writing would be best, of course.

  177. Yes, that’s the best we can do for now.

  178. I guess it was her desire that you are Jesus (or his representation) and you keeping cool and not crashing her belief. You had the intention for her to find peace in mind and so what you then said to her had a strong impingment on her “self-heling” resources.
    The command of theta.
    Some intentions are so strong and words written so near to truth that readers become “healed” by reading.

  179. Great question Marty. I think the answer is easily derived if you just look at it. Get the idea that you are the source, that power comes from you and goes outward. Now get the idea that power comes from outside yourself, and you are drawing that in and channeling it. When I do that, the former is all about me me me, I I I, the first dynamic, and it’s actually kind of introverting, because I’m looking inward to identify self. The latter is extroverting and embraces dynamics 2 – 8 or the full 8th Dynamic or the allness of all or the entirety of the mest and theta universes or however you want to look at it. It is then easy to see that the entire universe, the full 8 dynamics, is of course more powerful than just me. I am drawing from all 8 dynamics. I am a tiny part of that. Others have said basically the same.

  180. You say that with such absoluteness. Yet I have heard of a guy who had a traumatic experience, and a shaman later healed that experience, resulting in a complete change in the person. He was no longer negatively affected by the experience even though he did nothing himself. So I have to disagree with you.

  181. This reminds me of comments to the Thursday NPR Fresh Air interview with the doctor who studies near-death or after-death experiences. He’s interviewed hundreds of people who’ve had them. He notes that it is a paradox that people who are brain dead, when resuscitated, can recall experiences in the hospital room and the answer to how this is possible has various theories. Some of the comments were “This is awesome!” and others were “This is pseuodoscientific religious crap!” I guess it just depends on the ideas you already have going in.

  182. Monte, from some of the greatest philosophers, greatest liberated saints, adepts throughout recorded history.

    But the notion of a Supreme Absolute Consciousness that is the creator, sustainer and destroyer of the infinite multitudinous cosmos, that we are, came principally from the Upanishads which are the principle authority of the Vedas which Ron acknowledges.

    And from those sources come the doctrine of liberating oneself from the limitations of matter that all subsequent religions and religious philosophies including Hinduism, Buddhism, Scientology etc come from.

    There are many scholars that now find the sources of all semetic religions based on the Vedas. Particularly the Upanishads.

    I hope that answers your question.

    Basically it comes from the direct inner experiences of ancient sages that found this truth, developed practices to experience this truth.

    The mystics of all various faiths and religions all proclaim similar truths.

    You may suppose that it has been double blinded as the sages of all faiths declare the goal of life and the characteristics of that attainment to be the same.

  183. Fly on the wall

    The Freemasons have a rule to NOT talk about religion or politics in their lodges as they can be emotionally charged and devisive, and detract from the fraternal atmosphere. It is quite amazing how this blog can entertain so many viewpoints on G-d without a full blown war. The factors contributing to this are that most are willing to let the other have a different viewpoint, not make them wrong, validate them often, and not insist on their own brand of G-d being the only one. This is not your typical gathering. I know many here recognize that.

  184. I think the ancient yogis and adepts knew about the observer/observed connection, which the wave/particle phenomenon revealed in quantum mechanics.

    This is just one example below. And Fred Alan Wolf of “Taking the Quantum Leap” fame uses Vedic analogies frequently. Google the connection and those ancients in loin clothes start looking a little different from our time centric  prejudices.

  185. I fully believe there is a higher force, collectively. I have also found through some very recent guided meditation sessions, something was definitely tapped into, call it a higher plane, understanding, etc. This did involve becoming aware of physical aches, pains and simply acknowledging that’s the way it was, while continuing to focus on coming back to self, third eye, whatever you want to call it. But, getting this concept of just being there, an energy was definitely becoming entwined with self. The resultant, conceptual knowledge that arrived with self was pretty profound–and simple.
    Incidentally, I have had several hundred hours of Scn auditing and been actively involved for 30+ years.
    I have concluded from tremendous investigation that Scn. can’t deliver what’s promised, as what’s promised, can’t be delivered. This does not make the subject invalid, but the promises of what one will achieve, per my experiences over and over and over again, has not been done. Scn. is not the only path.
    The books that I have been reading in Zen and other forms of Buddhism have verbatim, whole passages, that I have read from many ethics, tech and even admin references from LRH. He is not the originator of these datums.
    One has to study and use other subjects to see this for themselves. Otherwise, Scn’s will pnly have faith, and are truly ignorant.
    I am now studying and using Zen Buddhism and meditation, which I had been studying before Scn. I have come back to what originally rang true for me.
    1/2 hour of guided meditation was as, or more revealing, than 90 hrs of FPRD.
    That was my experience.

  186. Also Monty, there is a sanskrit word Lila. It means sport or play. The God realized sages have said that all of this is basically the desire of Spirit to have fun and to have individuated forms and consciousnesses to have relations with. And on the priniciple of duality all of this is made. But the game is to get back to the Singularity, the Source, The Prime Mover Unmoved. Liberation from ignorance.

  187. Very simple Christian Science definition of God:
    God = Truth = Love

  188. The following is my view on this matter:
    I think that this observation is true because beings are actually an “aspect of” and/or an “example of” or a “part of” the 8th dynamic. If one denies God, the 8th dynamic, whatever name you have for this “Source of All”, then one is also denying a part or an aspect of oneself. One would not be as causative performing beneficial acts if one were doing that. So those who admit that they heal through the agency of (___) would be more effective.
    LRH said that only “the Spirit” can heal the body. Mary Baker Eddy said this also. Jesus said this. Most great healers have said this using their own words. LRH defined survival via each dynamic as existence “by”, “for” and “AS” that dynamic. Surviving on the 8th dynamic would be no exception. It would be existing by, for and AS the supreme being, the Source of All, etc. Deep down it is our natural state of Being.
    So yes Luke, the Force IS with you ! 🙂

  189. From the BC transcript I got from the website , here’s some of the context of that definition, with a slightly different wording of the definition that was excerpted:

    “But it… the people say, “Well, Ron is against God.” No, Ron is against people making a fool out of God, if God exists. I think if there’s any god around who single-handedly built this universe, he’s probably so plowed into it by this time that it’s probably it’s him that needs help, not us. [laughter] And you could find – you could probably found a whole church on the basis of “help God, he needs your help,” you know?

    “But you see how interiorized people are on this particular dynamic or scope of action which is the superior life being, you see, is all that it’s the dynamic of. And there are always going to be superior life beings around so that it is a dynamic and a definite dynamic, and it’s been muddied up by GPMs, but it’s definitely there, don’t you see? There is something there, but it’s simply in a psychotic state. Look how interiorized IT is if everybody thinks it is going to help THEM. They say God, well therefore they worship it – it’s somehow or other going to do something for them, and so forth.”

  190. theosismanides

    Understood Ulf. I don’t disagree with this. What’s belief after all but a 7th dynamic thing. It’s the way theta operates and though I don’t want to sound over simplistic people tend to forget there is an 8th too. I don’t know much about it, lol, it’s not as easy to “grasp” (lol) but I can say it exists.

    Great on your observation.

  191. Ditto. Intention is senior to mest (bank) and calling in others to help would increase the intention. A combined theta intention is going to increase the theta to mest ratio.
    There is a book called Hands of Light where a woman talks about using ‘your small self’ to go inside the body and heal it, and also talks about healing others by invoking saints to help. I doubt that specific saints are hanging out, but I have no reason to think that an interested thetan would be there to flow some intention.

  192. theosismanides

    Yes never seen that definition. Interesting to say the least! Superior life beings…. !

  193. theosismanides

    That’s great SKM! Certainly a great… tip! Thanks

  194. Yes regarding Three Universes. Its a PAB, and it even gets into the 2nd dynamic definition as being the “create’ dynamic” which many people believe is a DM invention, but it is not.

  195. SKM, very cool indeed. I have helped beings by simply being there and understanding which proves that it isn’t the words as much as it is the beingness in auditing. I helped my nephew who had unfortunately committed suicide and was stuck in confusion at the incident. He was like a dog chasing his tale, but no body involved. All I had to do was to put a comm line in and then give him a locational. He did not ask for help, wasn’t a scientologist, but the process worked beautifully. I was able to send him off with a good release and tell him where to pick up a body if he so desired. No faith involved on his part and just high ARC 8c on mine.

  196. Intention is cause! (Sayeth the lord!)

  197. I’ve done a similar thing many times myself, but there’s no magic involved:

    I have an interaction with someone that doesn’t go well (argument, fight, disagreement or whatever). The next time I meet that person I can either continue the disagreement somehow and the person will probably respond in kind; or I can decide to just drop it and treat that other person in the routine way. And they will probably respond in kind to that too.

    This is not magic, it is simple ARC, and people tend to respond to incoming communication in kind. There’s no need to invoke some other explanation.

    You must also consider two other possibilities before arriving at a conclusion: maybe the other guy realized he was being a jerk and decided for himself to just knock it off. Or maybe it’s just a random co-incidence that means nothing at all. People do tend to remember occasions when things work out the way they intended and forget times when it didn’t, then conclude that somehow they themselves had a magic influence on the environment. It’s a classic case of observer bias.

    You can see the same thing with “OT Phenomena” in the old Advance mags. Some OT arrives at the org during the busiest part of the day and wow! there’s 10 parking bays free all in a row. OT magic! No, it means that there were 10 free bays all in a row – statistically this will happen occasionally. The OT just happens to forget the 364 days before when he arrived at the org at the same time of day and struggled to find parking just like everyone else. Using OT magic to explain this one day also means that everyone who was in those parking bays suddenly felt a compelling need to go somewhere else – what does that say about their self-determinism?

    For these magic explanations to be true, it would have to be shown that the person using the magic could do it at will (or under defined circumstances), that they could do it consistently, that it never didn’t work out, and that other regular folk not trained in magic COULD NOT DO IT. But none of these things turn out to be true at all.

    So be very careful about assigning magic as the cause of a singular event, as co-incidence and statistics can be a real bitch.

  198. Maria, I like you post. There are those in body form as well who are really only caught up in their self, no matter how big their personal dynamic and those whose purpose is truly outside self and extends to others.

    About 4 years ago I had a condition where I was in extreme pain, the worst I had ever experienced (including natural child birth). It was about 2am or so. I was on my stomach in bed when suddenly I sensed a shadow over my entire room (LOL, the room got darker, not brighter!) and strangely enough, the shadow was like huge bird wings. I felt this theta wash over me and lightly hold me . I suddenly relaxed as the pain went away. I sent a message of thanks. It was an amazing experience.

  199. Funny you should say that because just recently I had a cog about the possibility that there could be a god, as opposed to collective spirits or a god head but the idea of just an individual being who mocked up the universe that we are sharing or stuck in (however you see it) and then the track goes on from that point. I didn’t even consider the intention of the hypothetical god. Maybe it was beautiful, and others screwed with it or maybe it wasn’t so well meaning- no matter. For a Christian this one god idea would be a given. For me, who has never been nor will I ever be a follower of Christianity as a religion, this was a huge deal. I figured that I had been so busy “knowing’ that there was no god, and that I had created universes, mest, etc that the idea of a god who created everything was incomprehensible because that would place me at effect and this other being at cause. Now I’m not saying that we all can’t be a god and run a universe, but just the idea that another being could have had the upper hand or that I’m living in another’s create suddenly was something I was okay with . Just a shift of view because I took off the obsession of cause without a degrade of my ability to be. I always kind of had an op-term going on with the single god concept since I was a kid because of the whole obedience thing that gets tacked on to it. A second in time can create a whole new universe in thinking.

  200. Here’s my take on the 8th dynamic. I’ve heard mention by LRH in lectures the idea that there are, or could be, other universes besides the physical universe. I can’t point to a specific reference, most likely PDCs, but could be others. Also the idea of some beings just not having participated in the physical universe. This is all highly theoretical and in the realm of para-Scientology.

    Let’s assume the idea in Scn that we were, at one point, much ‘higher’ beings who became degraded in order to play a game, and that we’re on a path, more or less, to return back to that higher state. At one point we were at the level of ‘God’ in terms of our awareness, understanding (ARC,) and ability.

    Let’s further postulate (regular English def.) that the beings that decided not to participate did not degrade from this exalted state, and were operating, at a very high level, in the theta universe. As theta, per definition, has no mass, wavelength, or location, we, the physical universe participants, could be in communication with such a being at our own choice, when not embroiled in our game.

    Would this not fit the definition of God? Not in the sense of a Christian God who is as deeply involved in the game of physical universe as the rest of us, but a god who is an unlimited source of affinity, reality and communication, separate from the physical universe?

    Again, all highly theoretical, but it does answer the concept of the 8th dynamic for me. One thing I always found curious about Scn was that it embraced the idea of survival through a supreme being, and that dynamic not being of lesser importance than, say the first, or second. Yet, the idea of a ‘supreme being’ was for the most part rejected by Scientologists. Notwithstanding the nature of the materials covered by OT-3 and the NOTS band, the use of the ‘Big Kahuna who pulls the strings’ as a social control mechanism, and the possibility of religious implants, it seemed like the idea of a supreme being wasn’t ‘politically correct’ in Scn.

  201. +1

    Confirmation bias is inherent in our perceptions. It’s not even done on purpose; it’s simply how the brain processes.

    Paradoxically enough, this process seem to be well known to Eastern religions/religious texts.

  202. “I’m just trying to keep the conversation lively.”

    Nick, The Big Chill

  203. This blog just gets more and more interesting.
    What an insight, Monte.
    Just great.

  204. Mike,I like your observations and agree with most of them. I think you have framed it nicely. Your description of “degraded” aligns with traditions which describe the “fall”, to use biblical and other religious accounts to describe the same. I also think the lesser empahasis on the 8th dynamic was a huge altered importance in Scientology, to its and its members detriment. The motion that the being was himself to become more powerful as he went up the bridge was a trap, in my opinion.

  205. Thank you Les.

  206. Jewel. That’s great.
    I the above story, the thetan was still in the body.
    But the body was heavily sedated (though with eyes open).
    That’s why I needed to bypass all of the mechanics.

  207. Obnosis, I guess there are blind believers and blind doubters. They are the same person flip on the other side.

  208. Literalism much?

  209. Information gained while channeling! We are genius at channeling! 🙂

    If you look over a great deal of the materials that are labeled as religious, you’ll find that they are a record of information that was channeled one way or another, God or angels or the Goddess channeling through a prophet, a teacher, a sage, a preistess or shaman, a completely surprised ordinary guy, striking a man blind and then restoring his vision, Angels arriving with visions, dreams, conversations with God — the entire book of Revelations in the Bible is a reported vision.

  210. A resurrected thought as a result of this topic (thank you Marty) and one of the reasons I come back to this blog.

    God was always an important part of my life ever since a young boy. I even became a Scientologist as a result of that desire.

    This was my experience as a result of taking about the God dynamic before I knew anything about the subject of OT 3 to OTs.

    I was CSd to look for implants, when talking to OTs about God I would get a judgemental vibe, one OT even alluded to my being keyed into an implant. the silent looks and statements, “Brian, just do the OT levels.”

    The judgement was pervasive.

    Now, you may justify this as “they weren’t applying Scientology correctly”, but I would surmise that inherent in the technology was a distortion regarding spiritual states other than the well word cleared, well trained, well indoctrinated, group approved spiritual experiences.

    The God dynamic in Scientology is booby trapped with whole track booby traps as defined and written by Ron.

    And because you find out about those booby traps on the most advanced levels, after so much money spent, after so much agree agree agree agree agree agree that this knowledge is the most advanced giddy up man has ever known, God, as a reality, is booby trapped to distort.

  211. Colorwheel : “1/2 hour of guided meditation was as, or more revealing, than 90 hrs of FPRD.”

    Can you be sure that the guided meditation wasn’t powerful BECAUSE of the prior 90 hrs of FPRD?

    I can almost guarantee you that someone who has had zero prior meditation or scientology or contemplative prayer … will not get much out of 1/2 hour of guided meditation. Sure — they’ll get something but probably not the depth that you got.

    Learning OTHER practices well, studying and reading and doing enables any of us to DEEPEN our gains within whatever path we are following.

    Which is why in buddhist traditions it is often recommended to do a retreat to DEEPEN our practice.

    I used to think — What???? Deepen??? Coming from a scientology background it was you either “got” the EP of a grade/process/level or didn’t.

    There was no DEEPEN.

    The various questions, books, videos that Marty presents enable those still in, out, indie hard core, indie light, anti DEEPEN their particular path.

    To me ultimately it’s about walking a path as authentically as I can and sharing with others on a gradient that is workable for them.

  212. LRH did say – the spirit alone can save or heal the body.

  213. Splog

    Yes, I have no argument with what you have said.

    I think you have missed the “tongue-in-cheek” aspect of the comm between SKM and myself. We were not actually assigning anything to actual “magic” ,in its more arcane sense. We were actually talking in terms of “the magic of communication”, or “the magic of ARC”, or the “magic of intention”, etc.

    I have actually never experienced, or observed, “magic” that I consider was not ultimately due to one, or a combination of, these or similar factors.

    Eric S

  214. “Are you a Dean Koontz fan? Yes I am. His books have an odd juxtaposition going in each of them, like ‘Cowboys & Aliens.’ I like them, they’re different.

    SMMC did believe in self-hypnosis, but also positive thinking and in an individual’s ability to heal. They had a library of other authors available like Edgar Caycee which I found interesting back then. This was all pre-SCN, so it was there to kick open the door a little to what spiritual gain was available.

  215. No, just saying something that needs to be said.

  216. Splog


    I do not disagree with what you have said here.

    Perhaps you have misunderstood the conversation between SKM and I. We were not talking about “MAGIC” in its more arcane sense at all.

    We were talking in terms of “the magic of communication”, or “the magic of intention”, or “the magic of the postulate”, or “the magic of ARC”, etc.

    Eric S

  217. My sister practices Reiki and at first I hadn’t a clue as to what she was talking about. But as soon as she mentioned concepts that I related to Theta, and the power of spiritual energy to heal, I was engaged.

    I think Reiki along with dozens of other spiritual practices prove that many people are on the same Path and have found different ways to manifest the power of “cosmic energy.” Call it Theta, call it God or the healing touch of an Angel, it all relates back to the same area. And area that draws us all in for a reason – it’s real and it produces results. I think what LRH did was provide multiple maps and footnotes for the Path that many of us are embarked upon. He made it easier and more predictable, but at no point did he say – this is the only way. I think he would cringe at the notion that SCN is the be all and end all of spiritual gain. It’s a wonderful beginning, an awesome leg up to what else is out there.

  218. Hmmm…..

  219. I like when people have to explain it so it fits their beliefs.

    The brains blood flow is interupted which causes neurons to misfire which causes hallucinations which are based on memories which are entirely biological recordings.

    Ok, good, I didnt have to actually look at anything supernatural. That was a close one.

  220. Along the lines that the human spirit is the agency capable of healing the body, there is a project that has been the subject of many careful studies in relation to stress, illness, and neuroplasticity. These studies are being incorporated into the medical sciences as we speak.

    This is an excellent talk that describes what they have been working on, along with fact based evidence that the approach of the “auto-mechanic” doctor is rapidly being overtaken by a “mindfulness” approach inspired by studies of Buddhist monks who have meditated for long periods of time, 10,000 hours or more and the effects of really “being there” on mental and physical states.

  221. J,
    this is a good example of „lost tech“. Christianity could heal. They demonstrated it in their churches. But this tech did not include prayer as far as I know. If you ever make it to „good old Germany“ visit for example „Altoetting“. A holy place in Bavaria. There are quite some healers in this area. I think in US this subject is not very popular and considered a bit strange and nuts. If you want more info, as a first resource you can visit „“.

  222. There are many great posts here already, so I don’t feel the need to ad my opinion, other than to relay the following from the Tao, I think it speaks for itself:

    The Tao is infinite, eternal.
    Why is it eternal?
    It was never born;
    thus it can never die.
    Why is it infinite?
    It has no desires for itself;
    thus it is present for all beings.

    The Master stays behind;
    that is why she is ahead.
    She is detached from all things;
    that is why she is one with them.
    Because she has let go of herself,
    she is perfectly fulfilled.

    Look, and it can’t be seen.
    Listen, and it can’t be heard.
    Reach, and it can’t be grasped.

    Above, it isn’t bright.
    Below, it isn’t dark.
    Seamless, unnamable,
    it returns to the realm of nothing.
    Form that includes all forms,
    image without an image,
    subtle, beyond all conception.

    Approach it and there is no beginning;
    follow it and there is no end.
    You can’t know it, but you can be it,
    at ease in your own life.
    Just realize where you come from:
    this is the essence of wisdom.

  223. whingeybingey,

    I cannot know what you have gone through because I have not walked in your shoes.

    I would venture to say however that the pursuit of help is better than despairing of all hope.

  224. Just saw your response SKM and wanted to insert my own comment to it. I think you hit upon an important truth. Magic occurs when people believe in something 100%. When the intention to heal, help or just comfort another is delivered fully Tone 40, then magical things take place. There are so many names for this, in so many different cultures, and yet all of them are looking at essentially the same thing. It’s like the technology to build and raise the monuments on Easter Island, also being found in Peru, dating a thousand years prior to its beginning and seeing it again in Egypt and elsewhere throughout the world. Cultures who never texted or emailed one another or even knew of the other’s existence and yet they did the same thing. Alien influence? A universe database tapped into? Not sure at this stage, but on the spiritual side we find cultures believing in the same phenomena, hundreds or even thousand of years apart and arriving at the same conclusion. There is a God; there are Gods; there is a universal Life Force that exists and runs through all of us, aiding our survival when we are free enough from adverse considerations and allow ourselves to believe.

  225. The line of reasoning as being constructed by limitations is contradicted by a reference from the Professional Course (Early 50ies) where LRH suggest that God is to be found at 4000.0 (even if arbitrary) on the tone scale.

    A bunch of hard work induced? Yes!


  226. Thanks, V. I agree with you with regard to the altered importance of the 8th dynamic. Not in the sense of a moral accountability, like a ‘God is watching you…’ dynamic, but in the more exalted explanations of God I’ve heard in other religions- as source of unconditional love (dirty word in Scn) and understanding. Perhaps this was left to the individual’s interpretation so as not to invalidate their own conception, or perception, of a supreme beingness. Nevertheless, it got left behind. Evaluating one’s survival in life, looking at all the ways in which one desired to thrive and expand, is maybe better accomplished when one contemplates not a ‘higher power’, but a higher understanding. Maybe that damned difficult reference ‘What is Greatness’ becomes easier to embrace.

    I found your last statement very interesting. What I took from it was the promise of becoming more ‘powerful’. The word implies the controlled use of force. Which, per the PDCs, is a trap. Back to the idea of a fall from grace, the theory goes we started to rely on the use of energy flows to communicate, make things happen, etc. As this reliance increased, we started to go more and more the effect of energy/force. So while one cannot shrink away from force, and must be able to confront force, more ‘force’ is not the goal.

    The purpose of auditing is to raise tone level. A higher tone is the result of a higher ratio of theta to mest in one’s beingness. Theta = ARC = understanding. So at the very highest reaches of the Bridge it can be surmised that one would be VERY understanding.

    So perhaps the emphasis should be that one becomes more understanding as they go up the Bridge.

  227. Before picking holes in a piece of research one should read it. Otherwise one is guilty of exactly the same false suppositions and bias that one is accusing the researchers of!

    The standard technique for double blind trials is that a third party sets up the groups but no one who is directly involved in the experiment, as researcher or subject, is aware of who is in which group.

  228. Anyone who’d like to read some accounts of this sort of experimentation can go to this link

  229. theosismanides

    This reminds me of a drill we did in the officer school in the SO under James Burns. He called it the YOU DO IT drill.

    There was this guy and he was supposed to get the roll call. But he was shaking in front of the group, was nervous.

    So James Burns, that was in ITO, asks him “Are you nervous?” And the guy says “No, Sir.” And for those of you who know James Burns you can imagine, he goes “ah, come on you are nervous” in his funny Australian ways and he tells him You Do It.

    And they guy went bananas because we were not supposed to dramatize a dramatisation. But James Burns tells him DO It exactly as you did it. Like a contact assist, what you do in a contact assist.

    And the guy starts shaking with the paper, and James Burns tells him do it more, you were doing it more.

    And the moment the guy did it exactly as he was doing it, he cracked up and laughed his guts out and the whole thing was gone.

    This is the You DO IT drill and I have been applying it in fears or other misemotions or mannerisms etc. It’s a great one.

  230. “The notion that the being was himself to become more powerful as he went up the bridge was a trap, in my opinion.”
    I do not agree that promoting that the individual can become more “powerful” as they go up the Bridge is a “trap”, perse, because it often happens during auditing and training that a person does become more “powerful” as a being.
    But I do agree with you that, for the most par, the first dynamic is all that is mentioned in descriptions when in fact many of the most wonderful potential gains a person can have using Scientology are on the other dynamics. Also, unfortunately the eighth dynamic is only mentioned by LRH occasionally in his writings. I wish that he had shared more of his thoughts on this subject.
    Perhaps he emphasized the 1st Dynamic because that is where most people on this planet really have most of their attention.

  231. Eric,

    That makes more sense now – you guys had a semi-private in-joke going.

    I made my post because i thought it important to say, and SKM’s comment seemed as good a place as any. maybe it should have been a top-level comment instead.

    Thanks for clarifying,


  232. Mike, my studies have led me to believe that the key to our earlier state was one of balance in a higher realm. And then we got into what you mention as the use of flows and power, and eventually different sexes. I cannot prove any of it. But it makes as much sense as anything else i have heard. And this desire for power, or desire itself, is part of the trap.
    I agree with you that those at the top of the bridge should have high ARC and understanding. I also think understanding gained in such a manner would beget humility. And Humility allows one to understand or approach that 8th dynamic. Whats that saying about only being able to fill an empty cup. In addition, one needs clean hands. Without that, there will be no entering into that “state of Grace”, as the christians call it. Scientology, in the right hands and without the hubris and economic and thought control, can certainly be used to help someone approach higher states.

  233. theo, this is exactly what LRH was talking about when he wrote something like: “Whatever the preclear is doing obsessively or compulsively, have him do it on a self-determined basis.”

  234. “What is true for you….” inevitably resolves everything.

    I’m a born again believer in math and physics and hard science.

    When someone YouTube video’s himself doing like Travolta’s character did in the “Phenomenon” movie, I’ll gladly reverse back to believing in OT powers.

  235. Yes, Koontz always combines interesting elements to his stories. The other thing i like about his work is he always shows the worst that can be human beings, but he seems to do this highlight and show us the very best. He gives the Darkness to provide contrast so the Light is clearly seen. As opposed to Steven King (who was a fantastic talent when he was at top form) who ultimately seems to think the worst of humankind.

    Silva was for me also the first “new age” experience. I didnt find alot there to be workable, but i liked the idea of spiritual advancement and increase of spiritual abilities and it left me open to other possibilities.

  236. Michael, here’s a video that refers to scientific research that would account for why prayer works to heal without the patient(s) even having to know about the prayer(s). It aligns with what LRH stated here in History of Man:

    “In that the beingness of an individual is actually extended for miles in all directions around him, if not much further, any idea or thought or past thought (as there is no past) is part of his beingness…”

  237. i’ve had some similar experiences as you. What has happened to me several times is that when finding someone who was either very sick, or very troubled in life i would LOOK at the being and spot their tone level. Sometimes when i would spot their exact tone, they would suddenly look me right in the eye (wheras before generally were in non-confront) and really look at me back.

    When i spotted their tone, but then didnt atttch any Judgement to it (like jeez, what a fucked up guy, or wow, what a low tone sonofabitch, etc) it somehow, in the spiritual realm, it acted as an acknowledgement of that being.

    They would get that, even though i was seeing their state, i didnt look down on them and in fact still had “love” for them, it became ok for them to also see their own condition for whatever it was and also care.

  238. Why do Scientologist, in general, feel compelled to say, “LRH said….” Why not say, “Through my personal experience I have found that…”. I have, of course, done the same for years but I have come to the conclusion over the past couple years that it is kind of irresponsible to do so.

  239. Yes. If you have fun with speculations, watch the video below.
    The best part is after the first 10 minutes.

  240. Good one, Theo.
    FOT in action. 🙂

  241. Concerned Citizen

    Jane, Great point.

  242. “Scientology, which is a religion under Commonwealth law, has launched an Australian media offensive this year.”

    Against themselves, straight across the boards.

  243. I was born without a Fontanelle. So I was told.

    My mother and my uncle, dad’s oldest brother, a Roman Catholic priest and pastor, rubbed some high end relics on my head and prayed. All of this occurred before my first birthday in December, 1955.

    Before I was to undergo a high risk operation there was what was considered a Supernatural miracle. My scull grew without the that “soft spot”.

    Folks didn’t understand that then was when I arrived. I fixed up a few things to stay around. I’m still here.

    I’m grateful you are all too.

  244. Ursula happy to move on after Marty travels to Germany, makes her right , and gives her a good ack:

  245. p.s. Here’s an excerpt about an experiment related to the above video:

    “These were experiments done by the military. Leukocytes (white blood cells) were collected for DNA from donors and placed into chambers so they could be measure electrical changes. In this experiment, the donor was placed in one room and subjected to ‘emotional stimulation’ consisting of video clips, which generated different emotions in the donor. The DNA was placed in a different room in the same building. Both the donor and his DNA were monitored and as the donor exhibited emotional peaks or valleys (measured by electrical responses), the DNA exhibited the IDENTICAL RESPONSES AT THE EXACT SAME TIME. There was no lag time, no transmission time. The DNA peaks and valleys EXACTLY MATCHED the peaks and valleys of the donor in time.

    “The military wanted to see how far away they could separate the donor from his DNA and still get this effect. They stopped testing after they separated the DNA and the donor by 50 miles and STILL had the SAME result. No lag time; no transmission time.

    “The DNA and the donor had the same identical responses in time…”

  246. Oops, forgot to put the link for the above quote:

  247. Allow me to reinforce a point, Hubbard DID have some incredible powers and abilities. I’m a witness and recipient. So there it is.

  248. A right item had been denied her. There was a lot of truth in what she was asserting. Marty gave her a right item. That is how easy it is to handle people. Stop giving them wrong items and wrong indications.

    What is this P.R. flap in Australia about? The Church gave the school a wrong item! They did not disclose that they were from the Church of Scientology. They gave the school a wrong item.

    We do NOT make things worse for Scientologists by giving people the correct items. Truth is a right item .

    If, as Mark states, “God is ultimate “Rightness”, Perfection, and Love.”

    It can be noted that spewing wrong items and wrong indications on people could be viewed as unholy and anti religious.

  249. This is from a famous hospital in China. Apparently they do not use medicine at all, they use Chi Gong. They heal 1,000s of people a year just using this method (I forget the exact number I read) I was thinking of traveling to there and see their results personally. Of course when you watch a video, you just think “trick” But, in this case it would be easy to verify by going to the hospital in China and checking it out.

    I think a little skepticism is natural, but there is also a point of being overly skeptical.

    I practice Chi Gong every day and I find it fascinating. There is nothing mystical about it. Chi Gong is a body science and there is growing evidence to support it’s effectiveness at handling disease.


  250. Sure, but theres nothing to poke holes in besides a vague statement. one would actually need to cite a real study or point to real research first rather just make a statement saying something occurred or these were the results. I find too many people talk about “a study” but then never get any details. Never vague statements like that, even if you really want to or it confirms what you believe. Ask for the actual information.

  251. As a Christian in my earlier years, I remember going to “faith-healing” meetings and saw a lot of people getting very excited at the front. Usually over growth of legs – looking back it was amazing how many people would say they needed healing for one of their legs was a few mm too short.

    Then, abracadabra, lying down on the floor their “short” leg would appear to suddenly lengthen and the room would go crazy. Aye Caramba! These were grown adults.

    I would dearly love to pay someone with an arm missing or something and go to one of these faith healing meetings and ask for prayer for their arm to grow back, and watch how quickly they were removed from the room. Migraines – yes, back pain – yes, even poor eyesight – yes. But anything that could be actually concretely measured afterwards? Nope.

    BUT – if you believe in a God as a reason for the existence of the world, and you believe that God has the power to intercede in the physical universe, and you believe that God loves you and wants the best for you then healing seems very possible to these people. The level of faith in fact (unless you want an arm to grow back) is so high that these people will then look for ANY sign of improvement in a condition as proof, and any sign of worsening as “it’s in his plan”. God can’t lose.

  252. Maria, there is a difference between channeling something or someone, as in the case of Mohammed. And discovering something in yourself from directly perceiving with no intermediary. Direct knowledge as in going within and discovering for yourself.
    The great sages say find yourself not bow down to me. And those sages that have found themselves have all reported the same phenomenon irrespective of path they followed.

    This can be said to be true because you find it for yourself. Not because of someone telling you what to know.

  253. Espiritu, your right that the word “trap” can be taken different ways. Its a bit harsh and could even imply a sinister motive. My intent is to say that an individual focused on his own abilities and “ot powers” is getting sold an ideal scene tailored or attractive to his first dynamic, primarily, as you point out. More importance on the 8th dynamic would have been welcome. I think it would have been a different atmosphere in Scientology, among the public and for those on staff. Not to mention the increased stability and awareness that such a goal would have achieved amonst the members. Perhaps there actually would have been 8 million memebers.

  254. Because we are all connected minds in the mind that created us and when we do not separate from this mind we connect with awesome power…our littleness comes from thinking we are separate from God….the separation is the dwindling spiral…..For me now….The Power Formula has a whole new meaning…Don’t Disconnect” From God! 🙂

  255. Thank you Marildi. Love the scientific experiments. And thanks to all who contribute here. The thoughts (those of Marty and contributors) CHANGE my thoughts. Well, we have the internet and language but still the concepts do travel miles. And yes, I can FEEL the changes in my own considerations and postulates (the changes I evaluate and allow).
    Marty is doing ‘healing’. We are not a group B participant. We are a group A participant if only by knowing there IS something else about this universe that causes effects (if we chose) in us. And if the group A guys did not know there was ‘God’ in the equation well then – this should be experiment A (sub) -1 or something. It’s a valid experiment. Someone wanta come check my needle?

    No Marty is not ‘God’ but still many of us are depending on him to help us understand. How often do you check his blog for new articles?

    I’m completely amazed by the understanding Marty brings. Some articles I have to word clear because I do not understand but that’s so like more education for me and I just love when my internet is working! Now moving my RV to a good spot where it works is like a vacation for me! I LOVE being 60! I LOVE that Marty and you all are here in this universe. 🙂

    It (my universe) was sliding downhill with-out it. Heck – I’d lost my church – the one and only ‘salvation’ I’d found when I was in need of change at age 22. That was devastating for me and I’m quite sure for many others.
    Thank you again Marty.

    I finally have an income again after 2 years with 0. I first donated to Wikipedia and another organization protecting our wilderness areas and from now on it’s to Marty and Mosey. I could never pay him enough even if I subtract all the trouble he passed down the line when I was on staff. He has more then made up for it. I would not trade these experiences/knowledge for a billion dollars. I never would have enjoyed it as much as I enjoy a single 5$ right now while having the experiences and knowledge I now have.

  256. Two things come to mind, and I’m paraphrasing from Chinese School, so I may not be exact:
    1) Definition of a Team: A Team has a tendency to know what the other members are doing and thinking, and coordinates thereby and therewith. They are people who push forward a common purpose and they normally get along great!
    2) “The Speed of Particle Flow alone determines Power.”
    So, given these two things, if you have enough (Team Members, People, Friends, Family, Thetans, etc.) all pulling for your good health, and they believe it, with urgency… good things can and will happen!

    I’d be curious to look at the numbers of success at St. Jude’s Childrens Hosptial, M.D. Anderson, and others. Personally, I’m very interested in the 7th dynamic and how things work there. I’ve heard stories, but I won’t venture to bring it up here. This blog is neither the time or place. But trust me, this theory is sound…. A is the answer, believe it or not.

  257. Monte,

    If it helps, I offered a thread on this a couple posts ago (Transcendence…). Essentially, IMO, Static went nuts being the only one *nothingness* and created unconsciousness, randomity, separateness, terminals and apparency – all effected and continued through the creation of *dreams*. Thereby distracting itself from its true state and condition. The irony is, of course, that it is – and never has been anything else but – itself; still being the only one – all else is illusion.

    As a side note, again IMHO, any person, spirit, God or thing one connects with as a *higher power* is nothing more than itself – a few shades removed from the “game.” The clearer and more direct the connection and line to Static (call it intention, belief whatever), the better the result (powers, healing etc.)

    Static came to hate being the only one, and so the solution (comm, belief, prayer etc.) to “another” simply works better than being *alone* – forever.

    To a thetan, any game (or motion, concept, idea, randomity etc. etc.) is better than “nothing.”

    LRH found the key in as-isness to get out of this mess. The problem is – we don’t want to!

  258. I like this too. But the +1 initially was directed to Brian’s first post at 11:20 this morning. 🙂

  259. Yes Theo…

    Excellent use of that one.

    Difficult to “as-is” something that you are not willing to be responsible for, or to create.

    Eric S

  260. Marty I am in the “B” catogorie of people. I seldom get sick/next to never. I am onley *sick* after drinking a load of alcohol.

    What is that about ?

  261. Hey if that kind of thing can work, and they got back the kind of “growth” they wish for everyday, there are millions of men with erectile dysfunction all over the world who would become believers! 🙂

  262. Marty and others,

    I recently picked up a book that looks relevant. It’s ttitled

    “The Energy Healing Experiments”, by Gary E. Schwartz Ph.D. with William L. Simon, published 2007.

    It has some good endorsements, like from a past Surgeon General of the USA and various other MDs and Ph.Ds who study and wrote about the frontiers of Healing.

    The theme of this book seems to be that Healing requires 2 things – Energy and Intention.

  263. martyrathbun09


  264. martyrathbun09

    Maybe it has to do with alcohol being somewhat poisonous.

  265. marildi,

    A sinister aspect of the DNA experiments is that in HOM( I believe), LRH mentioned incidents in which small pieces of tissue, kept alive, were used to “bind” thetans to a location, on the basis that the thetan thought his body was still alive and thus would not drop it and leave yet. Causing some pain to the preserved cells/tissues would snap the thetan back to that location in a mechanical way.

    This could also be some of the basis for “magic spells” or voodoo in which some tissue from the target are required, like some hair or even fingernail clippings….

  266. Therefore, Cat Daddy,you should do a Purif periodically between drinking bouts…. 🙂

  267. Good for spotting that, T.O. Sounds right to me. “Waiting for an answer” is torture, and Marty gave Ursula a righteous answer and ack of all the work she’d done to protect the public of Germany.

  268. A very interesting analogy of the crow’s next and one’s intuition.One thought I’ve had that connects to several of these posts is the concept of Reality or Agreement. If we consider that the MEST universe is a construct based on massive group agreement, then we can assume that the action or process of agreeing has been going on for some time and is somewhat well defined and accepted by many. If we get a large group, as in Group A believing that their collective prayers, postulates or positive thoughts can influence another, then conversely the person being healed or willing to be, equally agrees that such an act is possible. The greater the level of agreement (Group A) and the larger the belief that a new agreement can alter existing Reality, then I can see why Group A would get the greater result. But … this doesn’t prevent, as I see it, Group B, by changing how the current agreements are arranged, from taking on the senior healing role, even more so than that experienced by the larger Group A. Agreements can change. Realities can be altered through communication/education into something new and “better,” and continue to evolve, with each step or change being greater than the last. The more wins that are created, the more gains people have, the greater the level of power being brought to bear on every proposed change. This at some point would generate a great deal of fun!

  269. Good post Monte. You’re talking about what I call “Big Me – little me”. I relate it to DMSMH’s description of AP (Aberrated Personality) and BP (Basic Personality). AP is the part that interfaces with the world. But “behind the scenes” BP is always there, dreaming, postulating, and actually being the driving force of life and existence.

    Back in the early days of psychoanalysis, there was a guy named Georg Groddeck, who wrote a book titled “The Book of the IT”. The IT is the life force upon which the ‘ego’ is carried like a small bubble on an immense ocean or river of energy. He saw that the IT acts through each person and is the cause of what they do.

    The word “ID” as used by Freud is just the German word for :”it”, and Freud went ahead and used it in his description of the human being’s “energy economy”.Freud conceptualized the ID as the actual driving energy of life, the “life force”, life energy, or the source of such. Not knowing what it was, he referred to it as simply ‘the IT’. Colored by his culture understandings,he tended to seeit as an immensely powerful but “selfish” energy that needed to be controlled to some extent.

    Thus he conceptualized the “superego” as a kind of “reactive mind” that was needed to keep people from acting badly and make them “be good”.

    That was Freud. Here’s a little data on Groddeck:

    The early psychoanalysts were definitely pushing the line between medicine and “faith healing” and trying to discover what worked. They were open to investigating anything.

  270. Marty, perhaps the ‘communication formula’ has something to do with it. How can one (us) …open to the recipient if one was not willing to receive the communication? Well then it’s intention and responsibility for the duplication on the recipient end.
    IF the recipient’s ‘radar’ will not receive the ~ I very much doubt that he will receive. That part is missing from the experiment. But you could do your own!
    I will so much enjoy your next book! I think you are most definitely
    on the road to more truth as am I.

  271. And Tom, you are as the spring follows the fall, and good to know you are still there/here.
    Despite your ‘?’ … I really don’t care. I love you for being my friend.

  272. Well Chuck,

    Your first article is all in praise of placebos.

    If placebos work so well, and McTaggart is essentially selling placebos as your “ted-quacks” article says , what’s the problem? She is therefore helping people, isn’t she? By selling “quack”(placebo)products and ideas?

  273. Thanks again Maria for great information.

    LRH did mention that many people are reluctant to ask for help and don’t trust ‘help’ because they have had the negative experience of “help being betrayal”. Perhaps those STS beings are the source of this.

    Here’s a book which I think you may be interested in, if you can find it, titled:

    “The Fifty-Eighth Century”: A Jewish Renewal Sourcebook, edited by Shohama Weiner. Published 1996.

    It’s in 4 parts, many wide-ranging short essays therein, with titles like “Jewish Women’s Shamanism”, “The Kaballah: Doorway to the Mind”,
    “Redeeming the Holocaust: A Returnees View”, and many others.

    They are about mysticism, healing, and life. The one about “returnees” who remember being involved in the Holocaust is a fascinating take on that whole business.

  274. Op Pro by Dup.

  275. I personally saw the Brazilian healer called ‘ John of God ‘ heal a friend of mine and the energy around this was undeniable. (John of God or João de Deus), has been healing for decades and is a powerful unconscious medium. He is very well known in the rest of the world but just recently became popular with people from the USA because Oprah went to visit him and also the writer/speaker Wayne Dwyer spoke out saying that he had a significant healing from him, and he was also interviewed by Oprah about it and seen on you tube. The healer ‘ John of God ‘ says that : “I do not cure anybody. God heals, and in his infinite goodness permits the Entities to heal and console my brothers. I am merely an instrument in God’s divine hands.”
    He is saying that entities enter his body, (he goes unconscious ) and these spirits who were past healers (which have specific names) now in spirit form enter his body and heal people of all sorts of maladies. Yes, this sound absolutely crazy, but when you see him do a surgery on someone you know, and there is no blood, and becomes well from a life threatening illness, – you then realize there is something to this. At first you think he has to be a fake, but it is soon found that too many people have been truly healed for him to be fake and that there is something to it. Literally hundreds of people see him daily and he has treated millions of people over the past decades.
    ‘John of God’ has no formal medical training, instead he gives over his consciousness and – incorporates – the spirits of past doctors and saints. These entities give talks, examine the waiting masses, and there are masses of people, and they conduct visible and invisible operations for more than 40 years. I see he is visiting Toronto mid March, but he normally stays in a small town in Brazil and hundreds of people come to see him daily.

  276. Wow, a likely explanation for why voodoo and such work when they do. And it seems to go along with that quote I posted above, which btw I mistakenly attributed to HOM but it was actually from 8-8008 (I had been perusing both of them). Here’s the quote again:

    “In that the beingness of an individual is actually extended for miles in all directions around him, if not much further, any idea or thought or past thought (as there is no past) is part of his beingness…” (Scn 8-8008)

  277. Cece, I loved your post. 🙂

  278. Well, it’s not exactly a faith healing that Anita Moorjani had but it certainly falls into the category of miracles. She tells her amazing story in this video interview.

  279. Thank you for this response Brian. I very much appreciate it.

    With no offense to but with a regard and gratitude to all the great philosophers, the great and liberated saints and sages, I embrace their truths, their teachings and their evaluations in the context of being scenarios. Scenarios that I plot on a floating scale of probability that is constantly being adjusted as I continue my journey of self-discovery all the while having experiences, making observations and reaching conclusions.

    After I left SC I had some regrouping to do. It took some time but I finally got in touch with a part of myself that appeared to have a much better handle on things. I began to have a daily communion with this more stable consciousness and eventually was able to articulate seven fundamental stable datums to use in my journey. For me, I have found them to have incredible workability. They are:

    1) Things are never what they appear to be nor are they ever about what I think they’re about. And with that in mind, remember…emotional passion and/or personal conviction or even preponderance of agreement, do not equal rightness, fact or truth.

    2) Throughout this exploration ensure to disabuse myself of any need, want, desire or compulsion to be liked or admired, to believe in, disbelieve, agree, disagree, embrace or reject. In this journey it will be my willingness to look and my willingness to experience anything that will serve me best.

    3) Continue to look and listen (this includes listening to self). The more I look, the more I listen, the more I will see, the more I will hear and the more I will learn. And, don’t just look at what attracts my attention, look too at what repels me. On probably more of an abstract level than any other (maybe not), dots never previously recognized will first begin to appear and then later, begin to connect. Yes, I know, this is ambiguous but, it’s just the way it seems to work and it’s another good reason why not to discount anything for seeming not to fit.

    4) Truth seems to be an enormous puzzle. For all I know it might even be an infinite puzzle. In any case, there are easily more pieces to this puzzle than I can possibly imagine at this time. Therefore, if I plan on putting this puzzle together then know this going in and realize that there is most probably no single end point but instead, a continuous series of both end points and start points.

    5) Be always mindful and don’t get too attached to any particular notion, perspective, opinion, viewpoint or conclusion that I cannot easily and quickly detach. I must be prepared to change my mind frequently. This is not being fickel, wishy-washy, a flip-flop or any other introverting, judgmental labels. This is being agile while attempting to remain in the NOW.

    6) In the words of Will Durant… “Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.” …be prepare to discover mine.

    7) On my journey of self discovery I am my own guru. This “hat” cannot be delegated to any other entity. Of course, it can be useful and helpful at times to compare notes with others on their own journey (‘gold’ can be found in such exchanges) but, keep in mind, there is no one else that knows as much about me as I know about myself, therefore, keep my own counsel and do not turn my power over to another. Also, beware of anyone who is attempting to be, desiring to be, needing to be or wanting to be the guru for me or others.

  280. Brian, you wrote: “The God realized sages have said that all of this is basically the desire of Spirit to have fun and to have individuated forms and consciousnesses to have relations with.” This seems to imply that God/Spirit was not having fun, in other words, was in a condition of lack. I realize that, regardless of how many metaphors, allegories, analogies and so on that I use, I cannot really conceive of God (or whatever you want to call that that seems to be). But, having said that, I do have this notion of a Supreme Isness that is outside of time and space and does not lack for anything. Oh well, this is just one of those immensely interesting and mysterious paths of exploration that eludes definition but is loads of fun to revisit again and again. 🙂

  281. Excellent point Maria!

    When I first came into SC I pretty much knew that I wasn’t a body but I had some really confused ideas about what I was (where and what was the soul in all of this) and what the mind was. This, of course, all got sorted out rather quickly. We are Spirit and not body yet the body is typically being identified as being the ‘I’. After all, it is what’s communicating, at least it appears to be what’s doing the communicating. But, the body is the channel. It is the medium through which Spirit (me, thee and we) interact with the three dimensional world. Thus, it seems to me that we’re all channeling all the time.

  282. Vicar, I’m curious about this perspective you mentioned: “The motion that the being was himself to become more powerful as he went up the bridge was a trap, in my opinion.” Would you mind elaborating?

  283. Thanks 2cents. You wrote: “Static went nuts being the only one…” At one time I held a similar idea to this, however, the more I’ve pondered it, it just doesn’t make sense to me that a static would ever go nuts being the only one. Personally, I just don’t know. For me, it’s difficult, if not impossible, to actually conceive of a static while I’m so located in a duality.

    “As a side note, again IMHO, any person, spirit, God or thing one connects with as a *higher power* is nothing more than itself – a few shades removed from the “game.” The clearer and more direct the connection and line to Static (call it intention, belief whatever), the better the result (powers, healing etc.)” At this point I tend to agree with you.

    Then this: “To a thetan, any game (or motion, concept, idea, randomity etc. etc.) is better than “nothing.” This not only makes sense to me it’s empirical. That is, as long as I’m considering it from location in duality. 2cents, suppose there was a pure nonduality…what do you imagine would be some of its characteristics? (that question is open to anyone and everyone).

  284. Thank you. And thank you for telling me about Georg Groddeck. Very interesting. This descriptive line in Wikipedia, re his The Book of IT, I found particularly intriguing: “,,,an unusual work in which each chapter is in the form of a letter to a girlfriend addressed as ‘my dear’. “

  285. Hi Monte. motion was meant to be notion. That spelling correction may have handled your curiosity. My point was not anything many others have also made. I think that the importance should have been on the being comming to know or becomming more aware of that or their 8th dynamic. The flower was being regged into trying to become the sun. Displacing the sun. Not aligning oneself to it or blending in to it with humility. Within scientology, that was not the aim of the tech. Does that explain why so many eventually move on or out from it. Its incomplete. Useful, workable, but only so far.

  286. Thank you Odd Thomas (OT). You know, the idea that reality is fabricated by agreement, is the most workable perspective of reality that I have ever come across to date. Not long ago a friend of mine and I met for a beer. In our conversation we began to talk about the multitude of realities that we coexist with. And so many realities that are incredibly esoteric. When you think about it, it’s wild! It will make one shake their head in a spastic way. 🙂

    Agreement is an enormously powerful tool but it is neutral in that it serves whatever ‘master’ uses it. As we know, it can be used to alter realities toward a constructive end or a destructive end. And wins gained in either direction will only serve to reinforce the intended direction and expand confidence.

    I think what you’re saying about agreement in relation to Group A and Group B is spot on OT.

  287. Thanks for the elaboration. And especially, thanks for such a poetic analogy. Makes sense to me.

  288. Gabrielle Bernstein: my experience with John of God (6:45)

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