Scientology Spies Invade New Braunfels Texas

With Scientology Inc.’s traveling phalanx of lawyers comes a mobile surveillance apparatus.  In the case of New Braunfels Texas a team of several operatives are deployed spreading from the courtroom where Rathbun v. Miscavige is being heard, throughout the courthouse, along the sidewalks to the coffee and sandwich shops team Monique frequents at breakfast and lunch.

Here are two of its operatives (including coordinator Cathy Norman, director of OSA operations for ‘church’ of Scientology of Texas in Austin) keeping close tabs on Monique Rathbun.


Scientology street agent

Scientology street agent


OSA chief Texas Cathy Norman joins street operative

OSA chief Texas Cathy Norman joins street operative

Miscavige keeping his promise 'you can run, but you cannot hide.'

Miscavige keeping his promise ‘you can run, but you cannot hide.’

The Scientology surveillance squad assigned the Comal County Texas courthouse is sponsored and protected by unindicted co-conspirator in the U.S. v. Hubbard criminal case, Kendrick Moxon.


When Monique politely inquired of the name of one of the spying agents, Moxon aggressively attempted to silence Monique.  With Scientology it seems that the more things change the more they remain the same.


178 responses to “Scientology Spies Invade New Braunfels Texas

  1. It infuriates me that these goons stalk Mosey while she is clearly caring for her sweet baby boy. These people have no decency.

  2. Thanks and support from Denmark…

  3. Hello Marty, Monique.
    Your strength continues to pull in admiration from all of us. There are thousands behind you both and the slightest hint of need would bring many beside you. Your cause is just and worthy. You need not bear it alone.

    Is there a legal way to expose current behavior to confirm their history of similar actions?

  4. Stalking the persons who are suing you for stalking.


  5. Time for a TRO prohibiting the ongoing behavior that’s being tried.

  6. How utterly evil. I have no other words than evil describing those suckers.

  7. I wonder how Moxon is gonna explain himself in court but than again he is too slimey. Agressive ? Maybe he finnaly did a career ender.

  8. Stay strong!

  9. Τhe little boy will know that Scientology is not what Miscavige tries to pass on everybody. And that is very satisfactory to me. The picture tells a lot.

  10. I am disgusted by the behavior of COB David M. and the people who claim to belong to the group more ‘ethical’ of the planet.

  11. Ray will know what to do.

    And I that church is worse than flesheating zombies being after you.

  12. There’s really no more to say than that. It is truly insane.

  13. keep
    and watch

  14. “Stalking the persons who are suing you for stalking. Insane. Mark”
    Absolutely! Marty, Mosey, You people have my full support against that insanity. And beyond words of support, I wish to let you know that me and other people around me, are working and doing what we can, on a daily basis, to reduce that very insanity, in our own area. That includes spreading Theta, tolerance, respect and love, and demonstrating the utterly insane disconnection concept and practice of the CoS. And there are successes along that and there wil be more. And more.
    Be strong, good luck. and let know if you need anything.

  15. The situation with OSA and its lawyers/ vs Rathburn and their evidence shows the story/ DM will pay sometime for his crimes aswell as those that are sucked into it /I shre my support to Mosey

  16. Keep on presenting the evidence of their disgusting behavior.
    That just confirms the attitude of thinking “to be almighty” and the intention of not giving up on the stalking and harassment. It also shows the service fac of Dear Leader via his OSA agents.

    They are arguing in court with “FREEDOM OF SPEECH” about their right to harass and use surveillance even into the Rathbun’s private home, and Moxen interferes when Monique is talking to people in a public area.
    The arrogance!

    The cult of “David Miscavige IS Scientology”, gets more and more schizophrenic with the arguments in court via the lawyers, as well as in individual behavior in public.

    Keep strong Monique and Marty. Let us know if you need more support, pls.

  17. Makes me want to jump on a plane and …

  18. I’m deeply saddened, but not surprised. Any way that this can be used in court? It clearly reinforces Mr. and Mrs. (and little Master) Rathbun’s case; isn’t harassment of one side in court by the other side when the case is ongoing illegal? Anything the court bailiffs can do?

    DM just gets more ludicrous and clueless by the day.

  19. Where'sShelley?

    Doesn’t this behavior break the restraining order?

  20. ‘’Scientology appears to be the Herpes of belief systems. They just will not go away and so far no one has invented a sure-fire cure’’. – Marc Headily

    Monique, who had never heard of $cientology before she met Marty – became his ‘Bridge to Total Freedom’ and his soft place to fall – after he escaped the Vampire Empire of the Damned. She became his prime inspiration to take out his E-meter and help fellow escapees.
    Twenty two corporate lawyers later, she still seems to be stalked by people who believe they are the Masters of the Universe – yet demonstrate that they have collectively been stripped of their analytical powers, compassion, common sense, humanity – (the list is long). People who clearly demonstrate that ‘fair game’ is a way of life.

    Considered against the backdrop of the third dynamic, this is clear evidence that the church of $cientology is a school for sociopaths, promoting and graduating psychopaths.

  21. Robert Almblad

    Miscavige probably is not listening to his legal advisers. He just does what he wants.

    You are braves souls for standing up to his sick abuse, And, speaking for the many who have tasted his inhuman abuse, we are very, very grateful for your efforts. Godspeed my friends, Godspeed.

  22. “With Scientology it seems that the more things change the more they remain the same.”

    Exactly so, as things get used up. 😉

  23. …then they fight you, then you win.

  24. Bring it on David. The red carpet has not exactly been rolling out for you. If me, Mosey, Marty, Mike Karen and a thousand other identities you attack disappeared off the face of the Earth, do you really think you would find some pass into heaven? No. You don’t. You would just find someone else to harm attack and suppress. It isn’t personal. It is about you and your needs to suppress. There will always be someone new to suppress! Good for you David. That said, you are out of favor with the Gods and living in the gutter. A bottom feeder. Really ugly.

    You pay more taxes than any of us. You are not even aware of the accounting. It is spiritual.

    You have spent more than all of us. You have wasted in reckless abandon.

    YOU have the biggest losses. You WIN the game as the biggest loser. Who cares ABOUT YOUR BANK ACCOUNTS? The price you pay…….to be you.
    That should tell you what a liability you are. Pay to play. You pay way beyond the rest of us. With every injustice and crime you mortgage your own freedom. Not ours.

  25. This is completely insane and these pricks need to be arrested now! This group of morons loves to intimidate that is their game and it won’t work.
    love your comment Dan…”then they fight you, then you win”!!!!

    Love to you and Mosey and William ❤

  26. I don’t think ‘they remain the same’, actually they are getting worse. The pressure form the media, the public, the law institutions and others are creating real pressure and, Black Heart has changed from fear to terror. This character’s universe is shaking so bad, and is so painful, that is just a matter of time before it implodes…and it will.

    And yes, as a psychotic he will try to destroy everything before he goes (see S Africa declares for example) but, that is the clue, he will TRY and this does not mean he will achieve it. At the very end cowards never win, so too bad mister.

  27. I have always thought and later said that the Church of Scientology’s GO and OSA “branches” were staffed by truly ignorant morons that follow the trail of toilet paper to their nearest kitchen. And, stalking a mother in a coffee shop is the latest proof that a church that does these things once, does these things always. 🙂 Happy Chinese New Year! 🙂

  28. The Oracle, you ALWAYS know what to say… it!!

  29. Jean-François Genest

    Geeeezz!, I love how they bring EVIDENCE of their continuing crimes directly to the courthouse, in present-time, while masquerading that they are totally “innocent” of such misconduct. The criminals seek to be caught, do everything in their power to BE CAUGHT and STOPPED → ethics.

    Positive Postulates to you! Θ

  30. I’ve known Cathy Norman since 1975. We got into Scientology at about the same time. We were on staff together at Austin Org. Left alone without interference, she supports sane projects on her post. I’ve worked with her on some of these projects as little as 10 years ago. Projects like “Hands On Housing”, which did free repairs on houses for poor people, literacy projects in poor areas with Austin Police Dept. None of this got any funding. This was all before the Basics and Ideal Org push.
    The Cathy Norman, I knew is someone I believe could be pulled from the dark side. She saw a booming Austin Org in the 1970’s and should remember how theta it was. Recently when I spoke to her about outpoints in the church, her response was that “she just wanted to do her damn NOTS.” Deep down she knows the church is way off course. She’s trapped with no options.

  31. Marty,
    I definitely will watch it with Moxon, he might send the 5th Invader Forces against Monique and you.

    Keep it up Little Torquemada. How is Hell working for you?

  32. You have to wonder how this phalanx of Lawyers sleep at night.

  33. It’s like looking out the window at garbage blowing around in the street. And apparently, Moxon loves garbage and wishes to protect it from pick-up and disposal in the proper receptacle — jail.

    Have fun rolling in your trash pile, Kendrick. What an admirable representative of the legal system you are! When you pass a mirror and look yourself in the eye, you must feel so good about where your law career has taken you. Running around covering up trashy actions like that. Wallowing in the mud with swine. The burning sensation you feel is your shredded dignity and integrity — just apply some of Miscavige’s allegedly inured funds to the affected area, and the pain will subside… eventually.

  34. Is there not a restraining order?

  35. Miscavige is his own worst enemy. This is a foot bullet for sure!

  36. It’s clear to me OSA, RTC, and the hired team of lawyers are a modern times version of The Inquisition, except they’re FOR the State-Church of Scientology, instead. I wonder how far they would go? … if they knew they could get away with it. Would they go as far as the Catholic church did?

    “The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the judicial system of the Roman Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy.”

  37. Thank you for posting the pictures…it’s so great to see how absolute NAZI the CofS really is.

  38. She is now Cathy Norman Sullivan. I’m pretty sure the man with her is her husband, Mike Sullivan. Let me know the next date and I will be sure to be there and help if you need names for the local faces. I am so grateful you are willing to take on the cofs. Much love to all three of you.

  39. Isn’t there an injunction already in place preventing them from following her?

  40. “Restraining order? WE don’t need to follow no stinking restraining order!”

    I wonder what Miscavige’s buddy Dib is gonna say about this.

    BTW, IMO, this newest stalking action is not aimed at Monique or Marty. It is aimed squarely at the judge, to provoke him into doing some rash action out of anger, to support the church pursuing a Writ of Mandamus, or other attempt at legal derailment which would add further obfuscation and delay to the deposition date for Miscavige.

    Is this clever or smart? Of course not, but does show the desperation of Miscavige. He only has two plays in his play book: 1. Use force. 2. Bully. And if they don’t seem to be working, turn up the volume on them and do them harder.

  41. Remarkable what one women with a child can accomplish!
    These fools are just that…fools.
    I feel for Moxon , the day he wakes up is going to be tough , but again he might not ever wake up.

  42. Marty,
    I’m not sure if Cathy is going by Norman or Sullivan these days. The man in the picture is her husband, Mike Sullivan, I believe. They were both there the day I attended the first hearing.

  43. I have always said David Miscavige could not do the damage he does without OSA. It is time they are held accountable. Is there a list of names and pictures of OSA SS?

    They have no business being around Marty, Mosey and William.

    OSA needs to leave and David Miscavige needs to come to Texas and explain to the Judge what he and Scientology are all about. I would not put it passed Miscavige to try to intimidate the Judge. David Miscavige proves once again that Scientology is but a total freak show.

  44. David J Mudkips

    Basically this.

    Surely this can be brought up at the trial?

    As mentioned elsewhere, what about the original Restraining Order?

    It’s not in my nature to wish ill on anybody, but this *is* Texas, which, famously, people Don’t Mess With… If the Sci-spies don’t watch out, they might find themselves on the wrong end of the local equivalent of Stand Your Ground laws…

  45. AFAIK, there already *IS* a TRO in place prohibiting any sort of surveillance of Mosey. WTF ?

  46. Looks like DM will do ANYTHING to stay out of a courtroom. Keep your eye on the ball…

  47. I suspect that they have it all justified so that it doesn’t breach any restraining order.

    If they are in various places they will likely be able to defend that by saying that they are there for the court case also and were only in the vicinity of the Rathbuns by coincidence. After all… They “like this restaurant too…”, “just happened to be on the street when the Rathbuns came by”… etc.

    Even Moxon’s actions will be spun into something like… “We were just having a private conversation on the sidewalk, and “out of the blue” Mosey came up and started to harass us, We didn’t even know she was in the vicinity. She seemed to be trying to provoke us. I was just protecting our privacy.”

    I think one might have a bit of a difficult time proving intent here. It would not likely be profitable to bring it up in court. There is the likelihood that they are actually hoping that Mosey’s team might attempt to use it, and then they would likely twist it around and try to use it to “prove” that Mosey is somehow harassing THEM… AGAIN!

    It is wise to choose one’s battles carefully.

    Knee-jerk reactions can be one’s downfall… just look at how it is working for Miscavige.


  48. I sure hope this isn’t a sleezy Moxon ploy to agitate to get things backfire.

  49. It irks me that Co$ members continue to believe they are above the law.

  50. threefeetback

    DM & KM, gotcha

  51. To be honest, they could care less about anyone’s baby, children or relatives. They just get in the way of the job. Many years ago it was OK for Sea Org staff to have kids and there were “nurseries” to take care of the kids because neither of the parents were allowed to. Both had to stay “on post.”

    From the start the kids were growing up very much without their true parents. It became such a burden (financial and logistics) to keep nannies and the space to put the kids that I think it was in the early 90’s an International Executive Directive came out that made it against the rules for SO couples to have a baby. If a woman did end up pregnant she’d be sent off to a lower-level church and probably not with her husband.

    So that’s what these people think about kids and families and a woman with a newborn who could use a little peaceful calm energy around him. They are a buncha douches.

  52. The law doesn’t apply to them…remember? The law is only there for them to use against others.

  53. Would be so cool if they’d get arrested for doing so.

  54. Observer at Tony’s blog

    ” According to the TRO doc posted on scribd, they are also prohibited from “following, pursuing, stalking or ‘tailing'” her. I’d say showing up everywhere she goes qualifies as both following and tailing, if not outright stalking.”

  55. Once you have said “foot bullet” you have said it all. The judge knows what is happening, near his court room !!! Higher courts will know too. And if they need money to keep up the fight. Thousands of people with twenty dollar bills can plug the hole. And never doubt there are thousands of us. Those of us that use the tech and those of us who don’t. It is still WE and US. Because regardless of how we stand on the tech. We want this guy DM to answer for his crimes.


    12. Kendrick Moxon, currently an attorney for Scientology in this very case, and a member of the Sea Organization, was a prominent participant in the criminal activities of the Guardian’s Office. Prior to becoming an attorney at Scientology’s expense, he was a Guardian’s Office staff member in Washington, D.C. Moxon was involved in the Scientology conspiracy to infiltrate the U.S. government. This conspiracy was uncovered by the F.B.I. in 1977. Scientology then stipulated to their crimes which included Moxon’s involvement in those crimes. Nine senior Scientologists, including Hubbard’s wife, went to jail as a result of these criminal activities conducted by, and on behalf of, the Church of Scientology. I became familiar with certain documents, which are attached hereto, while being in charge of the 1981/82 040 mission to take over the USGO. Moxon was involved in the criminal activity, attempted cover-ups and obstruction of justice. The US government subsequently prosecuted 11 top officials of Scientology and named Moxon as an unindicted co-conspirator. (See Exhibit C, pages 212-214). This is but one small example to illustrate that Miscavige has not and will never offload the criminal element from Scientology’s ranks. Miscavige is well aware of Moxon’s status and maintains him as a high level legal staff in the Sea Organization.

    As a practicing Scientologist and in-house Scientology lawyer, Kendrick Moxon’s first duty is to protect Miscavige and Scientology. This duty is paramount to any duty he might otherwise owe the Court or the law.


    Seriously! more and more foot bullets… You are the best con ever Miscavige!!

  57. threefeetback

    Wallace & Lamont, How ya feelin’ about your client, dudes?

  58. Moxon, what does little davey have on you that you can’t just come to your senses and stop working for the little degenerate? You surely know he’s slime.

  59. Gerhard Waterkamp

    Looks like they are in violation of the restraining order. I do not know what law is in Texas but in California the law is once violations against a civil restraining order are documented it becomes a criminal matter. City or State attorney, whatever jurisdiction, can than start criminal prosecution. This looks like right along those lines. All what is needed now is a City or State attorney office which is interested enough in this matter to make this a criminal case against the church.
    This could heavily backfire along criminal justice lines.

  60. Insane is the word.

  61. It’s in L Ron Hubbards teachings

  62. Hi Karola! Well said. I agree 100%.

  63. Isn’t is customary in civil suits for the litigants to take measures to avoid even accidental contacts of this sort? One or the other would normally leave and go elsewhere should something like this occur.

    Of course Moxon attempted to silence Mosey. He knew he was over the lines of propriety as an Officer of the Court and didn’t like being taped while doing it.

    You do have to admire how they play this game.

  64. Oh, thanks for the vote of confidence Carol, I needed that. I was in a sales meeting yesterday and when I got done speaking I realized I was the biggest asshole in the room. It was a packed sales meeting full of salespeople, so you can imagine what a blow that was. I beat myself up for three hours until I had a headache.

  65. Seems to me that you need some cameramen/women inside and outside the courthouse , documenting more of this behavior.

    I hope the judge hears about this. Hang in there Monique!

  66. Eric, this is exactly how I see it. Winning the anti-slapp is not the name of the game and the stalkers have their butts well covered legally, though not ethically. In the photos, they are not looking in the window directly so can claim that they are not aware of the Rathbuns or are waiting passively for them to clear out. They would have no trouble avoiding even the appearance of impropriety if they so chose. Provocation and intimidation are more likely the intention.

    Mosey, this too will pass. Good wishes surround you.

  67. I suspect that miscavige was mentally gleeful when Mary Sue et al got thrown in jail. Now he’s got the ball all to himself.

    Sociopathic criminals not only have no conscience, they also have no real comprehension of consequenses.

    I wonder how gleeful dave will be when it’s his butt in the orange jumpsuit.

  68. As a mother myself of two young boys, seeing Monique being followed by anyone while she is with her baby enrages me. Just beyond despicable. I didn’t hesitate to kick ass, quite literally, when I was kn the RPF and I would do it again. Just say the word Marty and I will hop on a plane and show them how we handle this Greek mafia style.

  69. I still think that when this is all over you should move to Clearwater. Maybe you can buy the pink church next to the Fort Harrison. Paint it white and put up a “Casa Blanca” sign. The fishing ain’t bad there either…..

  70. These church members are out of this world Gato Rojo. 🙂 And this time escpecially this Cathy Norman chic. Check this woman out! 🙂 A security person walking around with a cup of coffee in her hand! 🙂 It doesn’t get any better. And under all her super OT OSA outfit I am sure there is a real Marilyn Monroe just waiting to be discovered. 🙂 If it wasn’t for my affinity for Marty and Mosey I probably wouldn’t even inform anyone! 🙂

  71. It must be a nightmare being on Miscavige’s legal team. So many cooks already cooking this goose, no one could possibly remember who put the seasoning on. And then Miscavige meddles with PI’s and OSA snooping and stalking like love-sick teenagers, snatching away any opportunity for the lawyers to dig Miscavige out of the hole he has dug for himself. He really is king of the holes. His time is a-coming.

  72. You have to give it to Miscavige. He is totally true to his insanity of believing that he can control everything.

    The good thing coming out of this is him showing his true colors.

    It will be good if and when he gets put in jail. What an a$$.

  73. If this is true also in Texas, which I believe it is, the Sheriff should be called in and question those minions of MisCarriage.

    I hope Monique gets this info and can move on it. I don’t trust lawyers anymore than a dog could throw them in a tear the lawyer to shreds contest.

    Very good insight. 🙂

  74. The truth is David is in a New York Minute and doesn’t get it yet.

  75. Is it possible that Cob has ordered his goons to be found guilty of harassment so that he does not have to be deposed?
    This would be the way to lose the case outright with no need for a trial to bring the puppet master to account.
    Scientology is full of (dirty) tricks. I think this evidence of harassment
    is staged. If it`s used to win the case…Cob walks.

  76. Dear All

    Having read the initial responses on this thread, what comes to mind is a bees’ nest. Not that I know a lot about bees but I understand they are programmed to protect the queen at all costs, even if it means sacrificing their very lives.

    There is ‘honey’ in Scientology; the knack is to extract it without upsetting the bees too much. Just like bees who are not so much interested in the flowers, but need the nectar for their very survival, and probably not aware that the flowers need the bees for their next incarnation. Hence the Scripture says “….. all things work together for good to them that love God, who are called according to His purpose” Romans 8.28

  77. My deepest wish is we see a Jim Baker-style perp walk featuring the midget. It’s going to happen to you, Davey. Just you wait and see.

  78. It is absolutely not possible to have gains with NOTS when you are so out integrity and PTS

  79. Wayne,

    Oh yes, they would.
    You are looking at a preview of what things would be like if Scientology actually took control of the State and Justice Systems on this planet.
    We will all be living under the Middle Age’s Canon Laws or Sharia Laws:

    “In the Catholic Church, universal positive ecclesiastical laws, based upon either immutable divine and natural law, or changeable circumstantial and merely positive law, derive formal authority and promulgation from the office of pope, who as Supreme Pontiff possesses the totality of legislative, executive, and judicial power in his person.[2] The actual subject material of the canons is not just doctrinal or moral in nature, but all-encompassing of the human condition.”

    “Sharia deals with many topics addressed by secular law, including crime, politics, and economics, as well as personal matters such as sexual intercourse, hygiene, diet, prayer, everyday etiquette and fasting. Though interpretations of sharia vary between cultures, in its strictest definition it is considered the infallible law of God—as opposed to the human interpretation of the laws (fiqh).[5]”

  80. Marty and Monique,

    I’m very sorry for what you have to go through. I sincerely hope that Judge Waldrip can see through all the religious insanity, and that Civil Law and Justice can prevail.

    Here is what these Scientology morons, are actually attempting to bring about in the United States:

    “The legal system of Saudi Arabia is based on Sharia, Islamic law derived from the Qu’ran and the Sunnah (the traditions) of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. The sources of Sharia also include Islamic scholarly consensus developed after Muhammad’s death and analogical reasoning by Muslim judges. Its interpretation by judges in Saudi Arabia is influenced by the medieval texts of the literalist Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence.
    Sharia has also been supplemented by regulations issued by royal decree covering modern issues such as intellectual property and corporate law. Nevertheless, Sharia remains the primary source of law, especially in areas such as criminal, family, commercial and contract law, and the Qu’ran and the Sunnah are declared to be the country’s constitution. In the areas of land and energy law the extensive proprietorial rights of the Saudi state (in effect, the Saudi royal family) constitute a significant feature.”

    And of course like in any other Theocracy, Scientology’s religious insanity is derived from its Scriptural Source:

    “Somebody someday will say ‘this is illegal.’ By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not.”

    – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, “LRH Relationship to Orgs”

  81. So it was the early 90s that policy arose that SO members could not have kids? That’s interesting, because it is just a few years into the reign of King David.

    Having read substantially about the character of this King David, it would seem possible that the foundation of the no-kids rule came about like this. Shelly could not get pregnant and/or the King was not potent and/or one or both of them decided that it would be against the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

    From there, it is a short trip down the rabbit hole for the King to declare, “If I can’t have kids, no one in the SO can!”

    Whether that scenario has any merit or not, it remains unsettling that Scientology buses pregnant women in small droves to abortion clinics, when one of its foundational scriptures (DMSMH) decries abortion as much or more than any other religion does — up to and including Catholicism. It is absolutely such cognitive dissonance that when I first heard that SO was requiring abortions, I refused to believe it, since it went so against “scripture,” er, “modern science.”

  82. I think the pic of Moxon is from an Angry Gay Pope video, but it captures his “vibe” and nature very well.

  83. Katniss Everdeen

    Scientology: where violating a restraining order in the lobby of the courthouse that issued it is a religious sacrament.


  84. “Foot bullet, large caliber, elephant gun. Got it. Toes already gone on both feet. Must aim more toward ankle now. Bang! Ow. No worries, a touch assist from John Travolta will take my mind off it.” (from personal diary of DM, February 8, 64 AD)

    “Ronnie did not do a succession plan, and I don’t mean my dad. I mean the big guy. What should I do? Will I live forever. I think I will. I don’t need a succession plan. But just in case, I am cloning myself like in the movie Boys from Brazil. Lots of me. Me and me and me. If nothing else I have loads of spare parts for my own tight, compact body. I wonder, can I transfer my memory to a clone body? I wonder if I have a body in pawn somewhere — LOL. Who believes that crap! I’ll tell you who — all of them. CSMF DB SP CI idiots.” (from personal diary of DM, February 9, 64 AD)

  85. Well said, Jane.

    Some have argued that DM _is_ the EP (end phenomenon) of Scientology, not some Tone 40 OT exterior state that may be in part illusory.

  86. Just one more comment for me on this thread: Marty, Mosey, baby — you guys are all awesome. Your standing up to the harassment and abuse speaks so highly to your integrity, strength, and courage. On behalf of those still dominated by the totalitarian Church, thank you so much.

  87. But it does apply to them as they are very sadly finding out. When in the past did certain laws NOT apply to the church? Answer: NEVER! Even during the Paulette Cooper harassment odyssey, it is not that the law did not or never did apply to them, it was just a certain amount of time before they were caught. The Church of Scientology operates on the principle that confused people are a good thing for everybody, as long as the tech doesn’t find its way into anbyody’s hands in time to unconfuse them. 🙂 Smart people are not a danger to just SP’s any more, smart people are a danger to the Church of Scientology! 🙂

  88. love, love the fact you stand for what you believe in and are not afraid to speak about it!!!!! I also like the fact that you are not here to win friends and influence anyone or anything. You say what other only dare think…keep going good on you!!

  89. For some reason this has been one of my favorite blog posts by Marty to date. Everything about this is true to life. The Church of Scientology. How does a person go from studying LRH tech about communication, engrams and implants to taking a break between courses to send a fake bomb threat to one’s own church and then go back to “auditing as usual”? I thought *I* had sufficient enough cause to require the church’s services when I first became involved! All these years later, what has this church amounted too?
    Should it surprise anyone that noone really wants to belong to that church any more, and it is not becuase the uninterested public have O/W’s. It is because getting involved with the church to advance one’s self is a major step backwards for a person not forward, physicaly, mentally or spiritually. I would rather get audited by good friends I can so a movie with next month, than get jumped and assaulted by for not writing a check to the church. 🙂

  90. I mean by that, I would rather get my auditing from people I can still be friends with when the audting is over! 🙂

  91. Robert Almblad

    LDW….You echo my sentiments and the prediction about the orange jump suits!

  92. The thing is they almost always know how to stay within the law

    Never on earth there has exsisted such an insidious cult as Scientology

    Smack in the middle of socíety ywisting every law that is supposed to portray human decency, Thetans be damned !

  93. Trapped with no options = being brainwashed by Ron that there are no other options other than Scientology.

    That one idea of selling Scientology as the “only way” is a spiritual crime agianst the mental health of human beings as it creates dependents on that only way.

    Then to make that abusing crushing: convince true believers that if you leave Scientology you will become a piece of mest forever.

    Ron sold people that idea. It is a spiritual crime.

  94. I got your back Cat Daddy

    “Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal.’  By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not.”
    – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, “LRH Relationship to Orgs”

  95. And lest we forget who wrote the tune this sadistic creature is singing.

    “The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.”

  96. Holysmoke,
    I found the origins of the Ttonescale in this article !

  97. After reading all the comments, and being aware that I have no knowledge of the law, I wondered if going after these people now trying to annoy even further would be Q&A; i.e. if now a legal complaint gets presented because of these characters continued harassment will cause in itself a detour and a delay of the real target of the lawsuit.
    As I said, I do not know about law, but the comments made me thought of this.
    Also it is true that you have many, many backing you up and whatever is needed we will be there.

  98. Wayne, good to see your post. I think they would go ‘all th eway’ with their Inquisition if they had the political power. It has happened before; the prime example in my mind is the tandem of J. Edgar Hoover and his FBI, the House Unamerican Activities Committee(HUAC), and Senator Joe McCarthy’s nationwide witch hunts for Communists and “communist sympathizers” and homosexuals, who were perhaps THE major target of his
    Fortunately, DM has managed to fail to develop that much inroad into our government.

  99. And if Davey ever looses his evil mojo, there is always this little inspiration written by Ron from his Intelligence Manual:

           ” Essentially a covert operation is intended to embarrass, discredit or overthrow or remove an actual or possible opponent.

            It is a small war carried on without its true source being disclosed.

            Generally the operation is preceded by data collection to establish the target validity and to plan the operation. It follows all the rules of war but uses propaganda, psychological effect, surprise, shock, etc., to achieve its ends. ”

    Geeze, ya think Ron has any causal relations to the present?

    Every single tactic aimed at Mosey and Marty was planned and statagized by L Ron Hubbard.

    Marty knows this is true because he himself has run these operations against people.

    Some of the doctrines of L Ron Hubbard are evil. Straight up evil.

  100. I agree that this blatant surveillance is staged by the necromancer for some evil purpose. Possibly he does intend to lose the case by sacrificing some troops to save his own ass from being deposed. Possibly it is just another example of one of his unrestrained reactive dramatizations.
    Another possibility is that it is calculated to put still one more ball in the air for Sugar Ray and Judge Waldrip to juggle and deal with. Undoubtedly, the court will become aware of this caper and need to deal with it in some way. Then there might be more legal specialists brought in and more motions to deal with. So, this could just be part of the continuing effort to overwhelm the court with motions which can be intertwined with existing motions in order to distract the court further from the original purpose of the lawsuit and getting Miscavige to testify under oath.
    Or, on the other hand, maybe DM has run out of foot bullets and in his desperation has just put the gun to his own temple and pulled the trigger. The judge might just find him and the RTC in contempt of court and order him to be deposed in the courtroom as he has earlier suggested could happen. DM would appeal, but we all know he is going to do that anyway. The question is: would he be likely to win such an appeal? It seems that this overt violation of the restraining order just adds more fuel to Miscavige’s funeral pire.

  101. I think it would be wise to go to the police department and request police protection for the days you are in town for court. All you need to do is take these photos in there, explain that there is a restraining order on David Miscavige yet he sends soldiers to stalk you, show them these photos. DEMAND police protection and a security detail. Maybe one for around your home too! It is your RIGHT to ask for police protection. This is their PURPOSE, the serve and PROTECT. WHY would they be stalking you? What is the PURPOSE behind that? This has escalated to the point where you need body guards. Make it known and get some security please.

  102. +1, with a helicopter pad in the back parking lot.

  103. LRH, via Brians last post. ” Generally the operation is preceded by data collection to establish the target validity and to plan the operation.”

    Establish the Target Validity.

    “After enduring a long quest to meet an enemy, of what must you be certain before battle? That your journey has ended.” Paraphrased from an old Tarzan movie.

    Harsh tactics to attack an enemy may be valid at times, but an SP, sociopath, insane individual will constantly choose to attack those who are not his enemies, or make enemies where none existed before.

    Insane individuals will occasionally rise to power. They can be very convincing, since they choose their words according to what the listener wishes to hear, while keeping their actions hidden, But when in power and showing his actual intentions, he depends on his followers to be lacking in courage and not taking responsibility for the entire group. The entirety of a leader’s power lies in those he leads.

    Marty chose courage.

    MarkNR (Mark Not Rathbun)

  104. Talk about fatal attraction. David can’t take his eyes off you Marty. Wasn’t there some kind of rundown for this once? Fixated person rundown or something like that?

  105. Wich is very observant and insightfull of L Ron Hubbard.

  106. The Russian police force is more uptone than the Sea Org.

  107. Yes FOTF…maybe it was late 80’s…I dunno. But it was “written” by Guillaume Lesevre as ED Int. Very well could have been ordered and even written by Misc and published in Guillaume’s name so Misc could stay at arms length.

    I don’t think Misc ever wanted kids at ALL. I don’t think Shelly would’ve wanted them either. It was easy for the women in the SO to not want kids once they saw the general workload and what it took to stay out of trouble. Getting pregnant equalled Trouble with a capital T.

    You’re absolutely right about DMSMH and the whole abortion idea being the complete opposite to what Hubbard himself had to say about it. I am certain he was not behind any issue or document that made getting pregnant “illegal” or wrong in any way. He was gone in 1985 and that issue was written several years after that,

    I drove a woman to an abortion clinic at one point. She was resolute, completely convinced that this baby was not going to be. Not upset, sad…no emotion except that we needed to get it over with fast. She got through it OK and rested for the rest of the day and was on the job the next day as if nothing happened. Too bad this is all done for a “cause” that has been so screwed up that it just doesn’t even matter anymore.

    The true cause would have allowed her to have the baby and given mom and dad help to get through the first few months. It’s gotten sooooo screwed up. I have to keep reminding myself that it didn’t used to be that way, and there is definitely a point in time when everything took a big turn for the worse.

  108. You’re right Lawrence–but in their stupid little minds they think they are still above the law. I do hope they “discover” this sooner than later. We can watch from the outside and see the changes coming, but my God…some of these people are so blind and high on the KoolAid that they’ll still do anything. Any victory for those fighting against the church is not made known to the members and staff so they don’t see that they are getting torpedo’d left right and center. They are forbidden to read about these things and they are lied to when there is a PR statement announced. (Granted they could still look at the internet though, just not say they did.)

    I went through something where the law was on our side and tricky lawyers almost killed us off with their lies and twisting of the truth. (They didn’t.) $cn has tons of lawyers doing the same. To a social, generally honest and law-abiding person the law DOES apply to the church and its goons. It’s just a matter of untwisting everything so those who are in charge of the justice can sift through the BS and make the right decision.

    Here’s to more smart people!

  109. KE–I know we’ve all recognized this same RC$ stupidity but no one has described it better that you just did. Priceless.

  110. That order actually came down around ’85-86.

  111. Hubbard built some of his O.T.O background into his tonescale I have come to believe since sympathy is so low onthere.

  112. Wow! Great video, intelligent reasoning into the manifestation called David Miscavige.

  113. Dave, How is that Anti-SLAPP Motion working out for you?

  114. For Info: Someone is sending a fake mail pretendind to be Marty lost in the philippines and asking for money.

  115. Well said, as ever! I truly believe that you’re right. Ex-Co$ members may never get their money back, but they have far more than DM will ever have. If he lives another 40 years, so be it… his day of reckoning is coming, and quickly.

  116. Re: the video…………I’m up all year to get lucky.

  117. I’d rather go on welfare and lose my friends than fly from home to stalk a woman and an infant for no reason other than that they wanted privacy from my boss.

  118. With a law degree, he can practice anywhere else in the country. DM has very, very limited power in this country. Most of America has no clue who the guy is.

  119. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. Can someone who has been targeted by this scam outline steps to take?

  120. Marty,
    Just ignore it and spam it.

  121. “Most of America has no clue who the guy is.”

    That is unfortunate.

  122. The lulz The lulz !!! Well dom Sir You win 1 internetz

    😉 :p

  123. Jean-François Genest

    • Here is the spam e-mail we received,
    from address►

    I Hope you get this on time, my family and I came down here to Manila, Philippines for a short vacation,unfortunately we were mugged at the park of the hotel where we stayed all cash,credit card and Cell phone were stolen off us but luckily we still have our passports with us.

    We’ve been to the Embassy and the Police here but they’re not helping issues at all the bad news is our flight will be leaving in less than 8-hrs from now but we’re having problems settling the hotel bills and the hotel manager won’t let us leave until we settle the bills.

    I’ll need your help (LOAN) financially of $2,550. I promise to make the refund once we get back home. Please let me know if you can help and i need you to keep checking your email because it’s the only way i can reach you.

    Best Regards,


  124. This is a very, very, very, very common online scam these days and one form of Identity Theft. This is probably a “legitimate” :p scam as opposed to some sort of OSA op.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  125. Wow. That sucks. And we all know with 99% probability who is behind it. I’m not an expert in this area but have helped established “white hat” hacker programs for ethical computer forensics. My suggestions:

    1. Ask all recipients to save the emails indefinitely.
    2. Ask them to forward a copy to you.
    3. See if anything can be figured out from the email headers and code. Specifically, what is the digital email address and domain, not just the display name. For example, the display name of the sender may actually say Marty Rathbun, but the digital name might be or something. Odds are the person created a fake account somewhere like or something. If you can get the domain ( or whatever) try to contact them to lodge a complaint, have them cancel any account that is not you but is pretending to be you, and seek the identity of the person sending the emails.
    4. I’d also check with an attorney to see what your rights are under Internet and international communications laws (person may be operating outside the US).
    5. I’d check with law enforcement for their ideas.
    6. Check to see if you can find a company or expert who does white hat hacking / legal forensic investigation, but who will not violate any laws in trying to track this down. Here are some tips:
    7. If you can establish an account name and domain you might be able to figure out some of the information. Here are some tips I found online that seem solid:
    8. If you can find an IP address, try to ping it (some directions at
    9. Proactively, as I’m sure you have already done, make sure you, Mosey, and your attorneys all have strong firewalls and security on your digital devices including iPhone/smart phone apps (which have a number of holes in some of the applications).
    10. See if your attorney would want to write the Church of Scientology to ask them outright if they or any of their parishioners are behind this. They will say no of course, and if later you can prove they are behind it (odds are close to certainty of that) they will claim it was done with no knowledge of David Miscavige or church officials. But they will be on record yet again as having denied something that turned out to be true and that is quite consistent with Church policies for harassment and fair game.
    11. On a different note somewhat related, I would document every instance you can of the OSA woman and other Scientology folks stalking you and Mosey even during a trial to force them to stop stalking Mosey. Since Cathy Norman is evidently the head of Texas OSA, the bullshit meter would go way off the dial if she claimed that Miscavige had no knowledge of or direction of her actions during a legal matter directly involving Miscavige. She will of course take her role of useful idiot to insulate Miscavige. Miscavige will again claim no knowledge — and that will be absolutely unbelievable. And the Church may claim they are in a public place, not bothering anyone, just interested in a trial involving their Church, exercising their own freedom of assembly and speech, and hey, there are just not that many coffee shops or restaurants open in the town. So I’d continue to document with dates, times, pictures, etc. — whatever your attorney would advise.
    12. Sincerest best wishes to you and your family, Marty!

  126. Sarah, “I would not put it passed Miscavige to try to intimidate the Judge.” While having a visit with my eldest daughter who is fundamentally christen I found her bible studybook and what she was studying and it had to do with FEAR. I asked her about the fear of God and why we had to fear a benevolent spiritual being and she said that it was not that kind of fear. Well I explained it, fear, was a means of domination and that if she cared to look she could find it in many of the earth’s religions. I see this in the tactics used by the demi-god David Mistaken, and the Cof$. God help us if he gets what he wants out of this universe. ARC Bill Dupree

  127. Marty, the very first thing you must do is send out a warning notice to your email contact list and post the same to your Facebook wall: you are most definitely *not* in the Philippines, it is Identity Theft Fraud and do not send any money to the scammer. Be sure and include the proper means of contacting you for those who might wish to help with donations for Mosey’s lawsuit so that those don’t get cut off.

    The poster above needs to send you a copy of the original scam email they received with full headers so that you may make a report to Philippine law enforcement with enough data to track down the scammer.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Internet Professional

  128. From a bro at WWP:

    “Accountability is -0.7 (worse than death), that says a lot.

    Sacrifice at -6 is also quite telling.

    I’m not sure why “Can’t Hide” is so much worse than “Body Death”.

    Frankly, I’m sorry but the whole thing seems ill-thought-out to me.”

  129. The Fortnight Magazine Article was published in 1953. Hubbard’s Tone Scale and the Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation were described in detail in Science of Survival which was first published in 1951. The Tone Scale ultimately originates from the observation that preclears running engrams in Dianetics auditing consistently displayed a particular sequence of emotions as they gained increasing awareness of the details of an incident.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  130. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Michael.

  131. martyrathbun09


  132. I have come to believe that you can have a benign form of Scientology but as soon as psychopaths move in it will become suppressive and they will move in if a structure is set up. With structure comes the suppression.

    Scientology is not a democracy

  133. Thank you alsoo from KKS 😉

  134. another bro on WWP

    “I’m not sure if smacking CoS with the TRO for Squirrel Buster level clowns would buy them very much, at this moment, compared to the time/money wasted applying it.”

  135. Alex de Valera

    We are thousands following the foul deeds of the Empire of Darkness where the shadows lie. You both are brave and you deserve our support and admiration. God bless you

  136. My motto for the last 40 years I would always say to my wife about Scientology “Everything changes but nothing changes”.

  137. Love conquers all look at Mark and Monique

  138. That friendly guy that always waves at the camara:

  139. If one is to consider all of the terminals the Church of Scientology (David Miscavige) is “totally opposed to”, it brings some understanding into the current conditions which manifest before us.

  140. It is a pretty typical scam. It’s actually very old. Someone sent me one of these about my son’s music teacher a few years ago. They are just scammers fishing. People will ignore it for the most part.

  141. This reminds me of the I.A.S.. Laughter! Every time there is some thump in the night with the Church they need donations right now!

    The biggest I.A.S. scam was telling the Jewish members at the Flag Land Base that Germany was building concentration camps and the I.A.S. was going to avert WWlll.

  142. “I have come to believe that you can have a benign form of Scientology…”

    Wow, I’m impressed with this insight, CD. But it doesn’t totally surprise me, based on many of your comments (not all, though ;)).

    On the other point you make, I would say that even if the administrative form of organized Scientology were a democracy, it would still attract psychopaths – simply because it is basically a tremendous force for good.

  143. Thanks for posting that data. I had intended to do the same.

    Even before SOS, 1951, a rudimentary Tone Scale was described in 1950 in DMSMH, and before that in the first LRH manuscript, *Dianetics, the Original Thesis* – 1948:

    “The tone scale denotes numerically, first the status of an engram in the reactive mind, next its erasure or reduction, and provides a measure for sanity in an individual.

    “The derivation of this scale is clinical and is based upon observation of engrams being worked. When an engram is located and developed, the extreme range it can follow begins with apathy, develops into anger (or the various facets of antagonism), proceeds into boredom, and arrives at last in cheerfulness or vanishes utterly.” (DTOT)

  144. Nice Gerhard,
    It would be great if it went that way.

  145. Marty,
    This sounds like a general email scam going around. It is just the details that vary a little bit but they sure all want money.

  146. Thanks Marildi, Michael H.

    Precision of facts brings clarity of truth.


  147. Alex de Valera

    Very well said!

  148. Thank you, It is still not sitting well with me that scale

    I return to something I said once. That tonescale must than be tottaly for the individual and does not say things about outward or outreaching emotions

  149. Dear Bill

    I was interested in what you wrote regarding your eldest daughter, and the whole concept of fear in a biblical context.

    One of my favourite quotes is “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”. Wisdom has a very special place in the bible and is spoken about as feminine and we are instructed to “love her”.

    When you love someone you don’t want anything to come between you and that person. For instance to be “lead astray” by someone or something that would or could come between you and your beloved would cause you unease. A believer’s relationship with God is synonymous with a wife’s relationship with her husband, and a wise wife would FEAR anything coming between her and her love.

    As I tell my Christian friends “Jesus did not come to start a new religion, he came to restore a relationship, firstly between you and your maker, and as a result between you and your fellow man. Ultimately there is only one thing that can eclipse Scientology and that is LOVE for you can LOVE UNDERSTANDING but you cannot UNDERSTAND LOVE, you can only STAND UNDER IT.

  150. But doesn’t that violate the restraining order she has against DM? Can she now ask for more sanctions against the DM team because of all these operatives?

  151. Or maybe as some have said, it is just a planned and acted out action so that it will make the judge Q and A off of the real thread of the lawsuit and they hope this Q and A will result in DM not having to take the stand. I like the suggestion to get hired police protection.

  152. CD, in the book “Science of Survival” is a large chart that gives many details. Here is one column of dozens:

    4.0 [Enthusiasm] Love—strong, outgoing.

    3.5 [Cheerfulness] Tentative advances, friendliness.

    3.0 [Conservatism] Tolerance without much outgoing action—acceptance of advances offered.

    2.5 [Boredom] Neglect of person or people – withdrawal from them.

    2.0 Antagonism

    1.5 Hate, violent and expressed.

    1.1 Covert hostility

    1.0 [Fear] Acute shyness, propitiation, withdrawal from people.

    0.5 Grief
    Supplication, pleas for pity.

    .05 Apathy
    Complete withdrawal from person or people—no attempt to contact

  153. Hi Cat daddy

    What you write here is exactly what LRH said but not in so many words. He said “all organisations are suppressive”. Or put another way POWER CORRUPTS, the more the power, the more CORRUPTION. Only absolute power is free of corruption and you won’t find that in this universe.


  154. Pip, I believe fear has no place in religion I think one should hold steadfast to one’s faith. I fail to see the segue from fear to wisdom. Having faith in the Lord is a lot different than having the fear of God put in you. What I said about domination was interjected into religion and which varies with different denominations and is to keep the flock in line. I agree that love is the key but it does not conquer all as well. ARC Bill Dupree

  155. That order came from David “Darth Midget” Miscavige and its original purpose was to suppress Ron Hubbard’s daughter Suzette:


  157. Kind of interesting that Mark Bunker would be concerned about protesters or people invading his space. Just to name a small fraction of his work:

    Here he is complaining of abuse to the city counsel, but in his complaint he carefully omits his own history of stalking and harassing people.

    I don’t have a problem with who he is or how he operates. Actually I met him in Vegas and he seemed likable, to me. But he tends to steer towards his own agenda and whatever “truths” support his own issues. He would have made a great politician.

  158. Hi Bill

    Fear is the driving force of religion! By the same token faith has no place in religion. I had to look up the word SEGUE so there you are, I have learnt a new word.

    How can I explain how fear can be a seamless continuation into wisdom? Take driving a motor car for example. We rely on the belief that the fellow coming the other way will be on his side of the road. It is the fear that he will not be that makes us a wise driver.

    As you say “having the fear of God put in you” is what religion is all about. We could all probably do with word clearing on the word RELIGION, especially as Scientology is defined as “the religion of religions”. It may well come from the Latin “religore” – “to bind” being a boating man I like that. When two ropes are “bound together” they sort of become one, but oneness relies on the binding. However if you “splice” them together they truly become one, but in order to do that it is necessary to “open the heart of the rope” so that the two hearts can be joined then the ropes can be interwoven.

    If love does not conquer all, it cannot be the key, there must be another key, and the only other one know is UNDERSTANDING. That is why I still consider myself a Scientologist because as Ron said “I developed Scientology because of my love of understanding”.

    I sincerely believe you could learn a lot from your eldest daughter.

    Love and ARC

  159. Psychopath do not go for good, they can not make a distiction between good or evil. They juist act on their drives, perfect Scientologists won’t you say ?

  160. “They just act on their drives, perfect Scientologists won’t you say?”

    No, I wouldn’t. What Scientology principle(s) are you basing that on?

    Or maybe the question I should ask is, what is your definition of a Scientologist? Someone who belongs to the Church? There are other definitions. But knowing that would require that you study more than just a smattering of Scientology and think that you know all about it, dear Cat Daddy. 😛

  161. As I understand their is no good or evil per Scientology, just beingmess and the game you choose to play being “free”from considerations that us mere mortals dabble with.

  162. The “church” used to block of streets without city permission. Even from an old Lady that lived in the street they blocked off. (Towards the end)

  163. Well, there you go – you are accepting hearsay from people who either don’t know better or don’t mean well. Instead of looking for yourself. 😉 “Look, don’t listen.”

    Here’s an excerpt from *Scientology 8-8008*:

    “While there could be no absolute right or absolute wrong, a right action would depend upon its assisting the survival of the dynamics immediately concerned; a wrong action would impede the survival of the dynamics concerned.

    “An optimum solution to any problem would be that solution which brought the greatest benefits to the greatest number of dynamics. The poorest solution would be that solution which brought the fewest benefits to the least number of dynamics. And here a benefit would be defined as that which would enhance survival. Activities which brought minimal survival to a lesser number of dynamics and damaged the survival of a greater number of dynamics could not be considered rational activities. While there could be no absolute right or absolute wrong, a right action would depend upon its assisting the survival of the dynamics immediately concerned; a wrong action would impede the survival of the dynamics concerned.”

  164. My pleasure 🙂

  165. One of the original blocked who started (and ended) The Stanford Prison Experiment

  166. Well L Ron Hubbard did whathever the fhell he wanted regardless of other people.

    I am going to say it. He fucked whomever he could even when married and molested one of his kids. The more time progresses on all what you call hearsay seems to be the truth

  167. Well then CD, who said, over and over again, that “man is basically GOOD”?

  168. CD, what does Hubbard’s personal character have to do with basic Scientology principles and tech? I don’t see how we can discuss those if you change the subject.

    You probably know that there have been others in history who had flaws and yet contributed something valuable. But you won’t know whether Scientology is valuable or not until you actually study it before you rant against it. Wouldn’t that make sense?

  169. Hi Valkov

    If goodness and badness are alike considerations and have no other basis than opinion, the oft proclaimed assertion that “man is basically good” is at the end of the day only an opinion, and has no more validity than the Christian statement concerning the “total depravity of man”. “You pays your money and takes your choice”.


  170. John C. Randolph

    If they had any decency, they wouldn’t be hired goons for the clambots in the first place.

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