The following is from a special guest who is sitting in limbo within the corporate Scientology community. Scientologist X provides a bird’s eye, real time view of what is like to begin questioning the contradictions within.
WHAT I KNOW
I’m a third generation Scientologist. I am not ready to “come out”.
I don’t want to abandon my religion. I want to heal it. Because of
that I’ve asked Marty to leave out my identifying details.
At the age of fifteen I was a Golden Age of Tech trained Class V
Auditor. I completed my entire Basics B+L series in record time
immediately following their release. My parents have been in
Scientology from its most formative stages. My sister is OT _____,
_____ C/S. My brother has been a staff member since he was fourteen.
He personally helped establish the __________ and has manned it ever
since, working in various capacities as a ____, ____, ____, etc. As
my personal EO, he is probably at his wit’s end right now, reading
this. This letter is going to rip his heart in half. Before I rush
headlong any further down this terrifying path, I want to take a
minute to say to everyone in my family: I love you. Please don’t stop
loving me. :’ (
I’m writing because I have noticed some changes in the church’s
methods of operation, and these changes make me very uncertain and
uncomfortable. I don’t know and can’t say who or what is responsible
for these changes. I’m not going to say it’s David Miscavage because
I’ve never even met the guy. I’ve only seen him once: on the
Freewinds in 2001 when he walked around a corner and almost ran into
me. He was surrounded by a team of juniors so it’s actually more
accurate to say that seven or eight people almost walked into me. It
wasn’t their fault, it was mine. I was reading while walking through
the A deck hallways and didn’t hear or see them approaching. At the
time I remember being impressed with COB, both with his enormous
presence and energy, and his short stature. I never worked at Int,
and I never had friends who were uplines that high. So I don’t have
any concrete evidence either for or against the charges of him being a
raving lunatic who beats his subordinates. Since I don’t have any
evidence about that stuff, let’s just set it aside. Here’s what I
want to talk about: what I do know. What I do know is that I
personally have witnessed changes, and I’m talking about things I’ve
seen with my own eyes, and I am not being allowed to inquire about
I’m an auditor. I don’t like being told not to communicate.
So I guess this is an exploratory letter to “the other side” to
attempt to gain some clarity, since the “good side” refuses to answer
any of my burning questions. I’m just going to try to tackle these
“things that shouldn’t be” one at a time.
WHO IS CREATING INSTABILITY WITH BLANKET ISSUES OF “NOT CLEAR”?
It started as a trickle and swelled to a waterfall. I watched as over
the course of a year, then two, then three, nearly every adult role
model in my life went pale with dread and said they were being called
to Flag to get a “review”–which always, inevitably, ended in them
being told they were not actually Clear the first time (or in MANY
CASES, second, or third times). They then had to stay for financially
devastating, emotionally harrowing weeks of high, gleeful ups and
excruciating downs. These reviews and re-auditing actions were very
expensive (plane tickets, accomos, multiple meals a day, not working
and earning money while being away) such that upon returning, rather
than looking glowing and shiny, they looked (to me) rather anxious.
They would be defeatist and defeatED over finances for months
afterward, just trying to recover. The very worst part of all of this
is that on separate occasions, two of these adult mentors confided to
me that after everything, they had been told after a long period of
re-auditing that **actually** their Clear cancellations had been a
mistake–that they WERE Clear the whole time. This created enormous
ridges. Who is creating ridges?
WHO IS STRIPPING ORGS OF THE RIGHT TO DELIVER?
CCRD: who has the rights to deliver it? The Bridge says one thing,
and obviously we aren’t doing what it says. Look at the Grade Chart.
I have asked supes multiple times, pointing my finger and banging on
the Grade Chart that is posted in every single Academy: why don’t we
do THAT? “We don’t have the resources to deliver CCRD”?? WHY don’t
we? When I was five or six our org had a CCRD delivery team. It was
a glorious time. I remember we used to have huge parties and
celebrations when the Org made a Clear. We would all come out and
hear a speech and it was an extremely loving event. Why wouldn’t it
be? A member of our congregation has achieved a major milestone in
their path to enlightenment! Tears, cake, hugs all around: THETA.
Even today, these memories are joyous and bright. (Remember in AP&A?
Theta can’t be taken away 🙂 Pain can be erased. Pleasure can’t!)
Why haven’t we had one of those awesome parties in years? Why can’t
our org make Clears? Are we not allowed to verify Clear because we’ll
just “mess it up”? Why is that? Is there something about the
training of our tech team that is so shoddy that we’ll never be able
to know who or what is actually Clear??
If we are so horrible at recognizing Clears, wouldn’t it be best to
correct us in Qual rather than changing LRH policy about who delivers
CCRDs? Saying that nobody on Earth can make a Clear except Flag is a
*huge* enemy line. It suggests that they have a room full of hidden
data lines about the state of Clear that no other org will ever be
able to access. Ron would never strip a Class V org of their power to
destimulate their fields by producing beautiful, bright, shiny Clears.
So why is Flag doing it?
WHO IS MAKING SPIRITUAL FREEDOM UNAVAILABLE TO THE MASSES?
Our family always donated to the org. We did this via donations for
services and also donations for “causes” (things like helping ABLE,
WISE, WTH expansion programs). All of this we did happily, and we
were not under extreme financial stress due to these donations,
because we gave as we were able. Looking at the timeline of this, you
might say that I didn’t know the exact state of our finances and
everyone’s finances at the org because I was a child at that time.
But children are extremely perceptive. They place importance on
feelings and emotions in ways that adults don’t, and I know what I
felt–the org was a happy place. We were happy to go there. With
family, with friends, with non-Scientologists even! The scene today
is a billion miles away from that. Non-Scientologists won’t come near
Scientology with a ten-foot pole, newer Scientolgists are approaching
our religion with caution because everything they want to do in intro
services is outlandishly expensive, and the longest term
Scientologists, the ones who have been there for decades, are PAINED
at the thought of having to go into the org or to an event. They are
nervous about getting regged!
The IAS event was always a donation-centric event. But Auditor’s Day?
Never. We used to glorify our auditors on that day. May 9th?
Celebration of our most basic book. Our founder’s BIRTHDAY??? Giving
him his greatest wish. So when did these beautiful spiritual
occasions get lumped into one engramic series of reg cycles? Who
altered the purpose of international events?
I am embarrassed to say how many families I have watched go under due
to financial strain from regging. Basics, library donation campaigns,
all of the other IAS campaigns, then the Ideal Org campaigns, one
thing after the next. I am far too ashamed to relate experiences I’ve
observed first and second hand where successful, self-employed,
self-made business owners were being forced to take out second
mortgages on their houses just to try to get by, while their names
were on plaques and bricks that will someday go in the Ideal Org.
What gratitude do they have for their sacrifices? They receive
construction paper commendations from the IAS and watch as their
401Ks, then rainy day funds, then families, become emaciated. This
weirdo greed thing is totally new. Absolutely things were not always
this way. WHO implemented a pattern and a policy of coercion in
Another specific I want to tell is my experience with status-based
treatment at Flag. While routing in and around the base I was given
the “new” routing forms. These have large empty circles on the top of
them, underneath your name. In these circles the originator of the
routing form stamps your donation status–whether you have given the
church $100, $10,000, or $100,000,000. This stamp determines the
speed at which your cycle is handled. I was disgusted that people
would admit to this so openly at Flag. It was really a blase,
nonchalant thing, told to me offhand by several Flag staff members in
an of-course-that’s-how-it-is way. Totally bizzare! I have listened
to a lot more LRH than the average Joe and I never heard a single word
about this kind of status thing. Special rooms in orgs for donors,
special “capers” for them? And now plebians can’t take services at CC
Int? Yes, if you haven’t heard recently: you have to be a celebrity
to take services at the Celebrity Center now. It’s just President’s
Office, and people who are wondering how many butts they have to lick
to elbow their way into the President’s Office. It used to be you
could bring in any old regular friend and show them around, have them
meet with some Div 6 personnel, invite them to taste the beauty of our
religion…but someone doesn’t want these degenerates contaminating
the arena for wealthy potential donors. WHO is doing this?
WHO IS DECLARING AS SUPPRESSIVE SOME OF THE MOST STABLE TERMINALS IN INT?
It used to be easy to write to anyone in Int. They would write back
to you immediately and you felt their presence twinkling out of the
envelope, you knew it was them. These days, I just don’t know. I’ve
written to Int with many of my questions. Most of my letters have
gone unanswered. Who ISN’T writing back? Some of my letters are
answered in a weird way, a strange tone of comm way. Who IS writing
back? I feel like a robot is writing me back. I honestly, and this
is not exaggeration, wondered one time if an intake scanner at INT HCO
had scanned my letter for keyword content, used an algorithm to make
an assumption about what my question was, and composed a letter using
auto-formatting it had been taught. It was *that* weirdly worded. It
didn’t feel human.
I am begging for a human response. I don’t want to abandon my
religion. I LOVE my religion! Please, is there any human out there
who can answer my questions? Such as, where is President CSI Heber
Jentzsch? Where is the smiling, familiar face of Ed Int Guillame
Lesevre? I love that guy! And I definitely remember Mark Yager, I
even met him a few times and felt a strong bond with him immediately,
where is he? What really happened with Debbie Cook, and why were
things so bad that she felt like she had to email 10,000 of us? WHO
is creating conditions in Int that are so unstable that anyone could
just be declared at the drop of a hat in direct violation of HCO PLs
regarding ethics gradients?
WHO IS SLITTING THE VOCAL CHORDS OF THOSE WHO QUESTION?
I have never known a life outside of the spheres of Scientology. I
was raised both in the church and by the church, attending Scientology
schools, undertaking training and processing from a very young age,
and contributing as a staff member. I AM a member of this church.
Stop treating me like a piece of shit apostate just because I have
questions! I am NOT “quitting” Scientology! I am NOT “spreading
enemy lines”!! I am NOT “dangerously Googling”!
WHO IS ENCOURAGING STAFF TO SELL INDULGENCES?
In 1997, when I borrowed my brother’s key to an org door without
asking and lost it, I did conditions under the guidance of an EO. In
2003, when I lied to a family member in order to get money from her, I
did conditions under the guidance of an EO. My most recent ethics
cycles? 0% conditions, 100% indulgences. Paying money to get out of
ethics trouble. “Contributing” to the Ideal Org fund to “make up the
damage”, even when the damage I did is completely unrelated. Why is
my EO asking me to buy a set of Basics for a stranger, in order to
make up the damage for something bad I did to a friend of mine?
Why is my auditor regging me for donations? I don’t even want to
comment on how disgustingly inappropriate that is. More than anything
I want to try to convey how AWKWARD that is. For everyone involved.
Who is asking technical staff to produce on administrative lines and
thus giving a giant cross order?
WHO IS DEVALUING THE FAMILY UNIT?
I was really young when the SO 2D policies changed to SO members not
being able to have kids. I don’t remember how it was before, so I
can’t comment on that. I do know I’ve met the kids who grew up inside
that the policy change. They are some of the most fucked up kids I
have ever met. Illiterate, unloved, and VERY degraded. Completely
lacking basic social skills and unable to complete even the simplest
Seems like the kids who came just before that policy change are fine,
most of them are uplines and highly trained. And there are no kids
who came after that policy change. I only have the evidence of the
20-30 children I have met in my lifetime who were at various stages of
their human development when all at once they were labeled as the
diseased pariahs of the Scientology world. How can you tell a kid
that they are unworthy of parental love? The lasting impact of this
disregard, this total lack of responsibility over their welfare, is
immeasurable. I can only measure it by counting the lines on their
anxiety-ridden faces. You know who I am talking about. Half of these
kids work in the underground kitchen at ASHO. Who is responsible for
this waste of human life?
I knew three women at CLO WUS and one at AOLA who were coerced into
having abortions. I can’t give more details than this because they
weren’t allowed to talk about it. Seems weird that we base our entire
system of beliefs on free and open communication but there are iron
curtains over entire subject matters. I know who DOESN’T have the
balls to talk about this. Who DOES? Who dares to lay down a set of
laws over the reproductive rights of the most able-bodied men and
women on Earth, the “upper tenth of the upper twentieth”?
WHO IS IMPLEMENTING MASS DISCONNECTIONS?
For years I had heard people whining about disconnection, but when I
read in ISE about it, Ron told me it’s something we should be very
careful not to overuse. Therefore I assumed it was something that
didn’t happen much anymore.
But as more and more people I knew and had grown up around got
declared, the evils of rampant disconnection orders REALLY hit home to
me. The biggest one was Luis Garcia. I knew him for years, worked
with him, knew his family. He was a big donor, got all types of
awards and special mentions. Yesterday this guy was the head of the
OT Committee. He spoke on stage at our events and gave us advice on
how to clear the planet faster. Today we’re not allowed to even
whisper his name? I received his email and of course I read it. Why
wouldn’t I? For all I knew he could have been emailing me about when
the next potluck was.
I got about 1/10 through it before I realized what was going on. Luis
was leaving the church? Why? I had never been so confused before.
When I came to my EO I was put in a locked room in Ethics and
interrogated as if I had done something terrible. “Did you read his
email?? Why did you read it?” Uh…because it came from someone I’ve
been taught to respect and listen to? “Why didn’t you delete it after
you started reading it and realized what it was about? How much of it
did you read? Can you show me the email in your inbox? Which
paragraph did you get to when you read it? Why did you decide to stop
there?” I mean, it was totally insane. I came in to get some
questions answered and was treated like a criminal. In the end, none
of my questions were answered. All I was told was that Luis had been
“bad all along” and that he had been “planning an evil attack of
Scientology the whole time”.
The worst was when I was told that Luis had “gotten into some bad
stuff” This guy is an OT VIII! Cause over life! What the HELL could
he have gotten into that could make him go completely insane and walk
out of the group he had dedicated his life to? Even if every single
thing I had been told about how Luis is evil had been true–I still
would have liked the chance to talk to him about his decision and
thank him for what he did for me while he was around. Instead I was
threatened within an inch of my life when I suggested talking to him
to say goodbye. How is that self-determined? What happened to
“what’s true for you is true”?
LRH says an SP is a PERSON–not a group. We are Scientologists. We
are not an SP group. SOMEONE is causing these changes. That’s why
I’m asking…WHO? I guess that sums up the majority of my questions.
I won’t be able to say I never saw it coming if I never hear from my
family again after this. My final question is if that’s what’s
Growing up as a Scientologist was exhilarating and free! I was taught
“to have the courage to know and say what you have observed”. Reading
these words always thrilled me, made my heart race; I imagined myself
on a snowy steed, slicing through insanity with my long blade of
truth. I just never thought it would be like this.
– Scientologist X
To Scientologist X and others similarly situated:
You keep asking “Who?, Who?, Who?” as if you don’t know … everyone here has already figured that out, so I don’t get why you’re posting this on this particular blog. Sounds like you’re preaching to the choir. Maybe you should email it to your friends inside the ‘Church.’
“I’m an auditor. I don’t like being told not to communicate.”
I am a human being I do not like to be told not to “fill in anything”
But I get you:
“Communication is the universal solvent” -L Ron Hubbard.
It leads to sharing a common reality with another “Mensch”, (Mensa is latin for spirit). Or it serves to create an effect what another being can expierience.
Correct me if I fail to communicate this. 😉
Dear X … Good observations. Great questions. Obvious answers.
And to X’s brother … Please love yourself as much as your brother loves you.
Just an awesome testimony, X. In my opinion you are fulfilling your dream by wielding the “long blade of truth” with this statement here. Courageous and eloquent. Will be of help to many others, much like Luis Garcia’s was.
The “who” you’re looking for is right under your nose (and I don’t mean you). All you have to do is spout out the answer you already know.
I don’t know of any LRH reference that says you have to meet somebody in person in order to see that they’re an SP. Do you?
Once you label that person an SP, sadly, your family will disconnect from you. But you will survive. There’s a huge group out here. Life can be and is exhilarating & free. All it takes is to free yourself from the influence of ________. Fill in the blank with the name of that SP. You do know who it is.
if you’ll allow me a profanity – this is fucking brilliant because as a 3rd generation Scientologist myself it sums up everything I felt (and still feel), everything I wish I could have expressed. These are our questions and the angst, frustration and despair continues because of the continued refusal to answer. And they refuse because the answers are just too terrible to face by those still left.
Wow…. And in case you really did not get all the way through Luis Garcia’s letter, you should revisit that. The answers await.
This “in limbo” thing sounds a lot like “Hangup at Doubt.”
Those who are “still left” have as much chance of reforming the church as a snowball’s chance in hell. The church is rotten to the core, and as soon as you all get it and do something about, the sooner you can get on with your life.
I read this well written piece and Marty’s earlier post as I also watched the Penn State troubles rumble along and can’t help drawing some parallels. It is possible not all facts are out and I certainly don’t want to derail this thread by now discussing Penn State but I will say this: The trouble with Penn State and the trouble with Scientology Inc. have the same cause — too few people being willing to stand up and tell the truth.
The SP Sandusky was empowered by everyone from the janitor to the president because they would not stand up and tell the truth. They were too scared. They put personal interests and possible consequences ahead of integrity and truth. Scientology Inc suffers from the same ailment and because of that the ultimate consequences are and will be even direr.
The three rules of processing are: 1. What turns it on will turn it off. 2. The way out is the way through. 3. Get the pc through it. That’s what the Church of Scientology is going through and the process will not end until enough people have stood up, spoken out and told the truth. It is as simple as that. And the longer it takes the worse it will be for corporate Scientology. Time is running out as corporate Scientology literally shrinks by the day and withers away on the vine (I know the stats). Silence and fear of consequences only make it worse. There may be nothing left in the end but only because too few people were willing to act.
Eventually, even Sandusky was brought to book. So it will be for Scientology Inc.
It would have been better for Penn State if they had cleaned house themselves. So it is for corporate Scientology.
And for anyone who might say: “Yes, but Sandusky was about child abuse, rape in fact, Scientology doesn’t …” Let me point out that there was and is plenty of child abuse hidden and secreted away within institutional, corporate Scientology. For those who don’t think so … dream on.
This has been the most impact full thing I’ve read on this blog.
You, whoever you are get a hip hip hooray for clarity and integrity.
You, my friend, have it in you to cause great change for the better.
“An easy life is not a victorious life” and your honesty and truthfulness is stellar.
One my my definitions of a cult is: they say they will teach you to think and be free, and when you actually demonstrate those qualities they crush you!
Heroes are usually reluctant to take up the sword. But they know fate has cast them into a drama that has the welbeing of many many others at stake And because the hero cares for more for the group more than the comforts of self: he acts
You have my postulates and prayers for success! I know you will be succesful.
You’ve inspired my day!
When stats are down, tech is out. Where there is altered tech, there is an SP. Who’s giving the orders? By record, it’s DM, the supreme leader! Your letter suggests that you know, but can’t confront the truth. Look up “reasonable” in the tech dictionary. Staying in that the church of COB and not leaving and striking a blow to him is Treason. Do the conditions. All the tech is there for you. The problem now is your lack of confront. Time to cowboy the f–k up. Yippie ki-yay! Want to heal your church? You’re going to have to help remove the entheta first. All you’ve gotta do is switch sides. It may seem nerve racking at first, but after a while, you will be wondering what you were so nervous about. It was not that hard. Many came before you. Join us.
Back in the seventies when I came into Scientology in the books and magazines there was a page that said you could always write to Ron and get your questions answered. He was all about communication even later in the early eighties I still got answers from his office (being older I kinda figured he had some help). It was astute of you to see the deterioration of communication as a red flag. If its one ability I have attained from my auditing and training it is a heightened awareness. Keep using yours. Make your leap of faith and join us. Bill
Dear Scientologist X,
I feel your pain.
I think you know what the answer is to all of your questions.
But… I will answer it anyways: David Miscavige.
Do you really think that any of this would be going on if he didn’t approve of it?
The “church” is really rather small and I have seen him many times at Flag while I was doing services. He KNOWS everything that goes on.
Listen to the people who have worked with him. Are they ALL lying??
I think you know your answer.
If you really want to save your religion then you have to work to get rid of the SP David Miscavige. Keep looking and don’t compromise with your observations.
I wish you well!!
Ouch. I value this communication as expressing the thought process of someone currently “in” who is trying to find his way and sharing it with us. I think his friends inside the “church” will get the comm when he feels it is appropriate To me it seems like he is also using a bit of artistic or poetic license.
Scientologist X, great write up. In order to assist you with more testimonies and evidence as to the WHO please google my name and spend an hour reading my 3 write ups since the year 2000 in the Freezone about HCOBs not being applied and me being persecuted for insisting on their application.
Otherwise I see your intention and vigor and I am happy you finally come to see the issue. After all New Theta takes over and continues the battle of Understanding and Conquering MEST. And their IS something VERY MESTy in Scientology for many years now.
Scn X, I will answer your tech questions: David Miscavige. I worked at Int for 27 years and closely with Miscavige on tech and marketing lines for about 17 of those years. You can read some articles I wrote on tech matters at http://www.scientology-cult.com under the byline Joe Howard. As for the answers to your other questions, I can answer those too: David Miscavige, though he is perhaps a degree or two separated from the people actually carrying out the declares, disconnections, abortions, etc. But the people doing these things have been molded by DM in his likeness to act as they think he would act in similar situations. Not as DM actually would act, but as the person THINKS that DM would act in a particular situation. Welcome to this blog. You will get a lot of answers here as well as over at scientology-cult.com. Good luck walking your next step on the road to freedom. You are a lot further along than many. All of us who have gotten out from under DM’s sway went through the cognitive dissonance you are experiencing now. Sitting in limbo isn’t particularly comfortable but your faith will lead you on.
This brave post is almost as heart-breaking as it is (clearly) heartfelt. Why – in the name of sanity – are decent people reduced to this because of the belief-system that they have CHOSEN to follow?! Grrr…. I’m in serious danger of becoming “sudden” again! Well done, “X”, for having the guts to question what you know to be undesirable. It cannot have been easy or pleasant for you. But thank you for that honesty. It says more about the basic decency within your soul than any “commendation” or “medal” from DM ever could.
And I very much liked the idea from a few days ago of a new Youth Organisation. I’m not a Scientologist, but I have the greatest respect for Mr. and Mrs. Rathbun, Mr. Rinder, Ms. Scobee and all the other regular worthies on here. I don’t yet have any children. But, if I had, then these are the sorts of people who would be running the youth clubs I’d be happy for my children to attend. Reasoned, balanced individuals who have seen the best and the very, very WORST that such things can be and who can, therefore, speak honestly about BOTH sides of the coin. Also (and this would be the big selling-point for me), they can inform to the best of their abilities and then allow the young person to decide for themselves, rather than enforcing indoctrination. As a little girl I was smacked by my parents, and made well-aware of what a disappointment to them I was, when I repeatedly stated that I didn’t like going to church (Evangelical Christian). I suspect I would be less of a failure in their eyes had I been presented with the basic facts and then been allowed to decide for myself… But, after everything, I cannot tell a lie, least of all towards myself.
I hope the proposed youth movement takes off and is a great success. But, for the moment, I wish “Scientologist X” all the very, very best for a happier and more successful future than they can presently imagine for themselves.
Keep smiling. We’re getting there. 🙂
Grant a little beingness, BDA. The guy is looking at a jigsaw puzzle that he can’t complete because half the pieces are missing. He’s asking all the right questions, and has only partially allowed himself to glimpse the truth of the matter. It’s up to him to grant himself the right to Look. Once he does that, all of the puzzle pieces will fall into place.
Treat this as a look into the minds of many Scientologists who still live behind the razor wire. Scientologist X is speaking for thousands of his blindered fellows. They’re all noticing the outpoints, but can’t make sense of them. Exactly as he’s communicated here.
It’s by design, BDA. Don’t fault the betrayed. They did nothing to deserve the epic mind job that’s been run on them. At least this guy has the courage to confront what’s wrong, and demand an answer. I have a strong feeling that he’ll soon have it.
Dear Bitter, you seem to have missed the essence of his posting.
Come out of the closet, bro. You’re a closet independent. LOL!
Scientology X: One of THE most insightful comments I have seen on Marty’s blog. Very, very well done. I hope your family is not destroyed by disconnection like mine was. Doubt is not a crime! Keep looking and asking questions. Maybe, just maybe, scientology is NOT the same organization it was when LRH was alive. Now…what has the biggest change been??? Or, better yet, who has been the change.
Haydn, and Sandusky destroyed the legacy of one of the most successful coaches of all time in any sport at any level. His 409 wins now stand at 298 after the NCAA vacated all Penn State’s wins since 1998. Funny, Joe Pa died just months after the story broke and he was fired, proving in the end that he was a decent man at heart. He knew he did wrong by covering up the abuses and he put ethics in on himself, after a fashion. Anybody want to guess what DM will do when this all blows sky high? Probably retire to Curacao.
Ok SCN X, that was well done. Good questions.
Yesterday I watched as much as I could stomach of the Movie called…
“Triumph of the Will” which is a Nazi promo film of 1934 (I think someone on the blog suggested it because of the parallels of what is happening in the CO$). What I noticed most obvious in this film were the many Nazi “true blood execs” giving their talks ‘rants?’ in the exact valence of Adolf Shicklgruber Hitler. It was the way to demonstrate to der leader that they were on board with his “master plan” and he was the undisputed god of Germany, no question. That valence wafted down throughout the ranks even to most of the people of Germany. It set the tone of the country. No one dared to question anything for fear of reprisals.
What was most salient and striking to me was how eerily similar it was to the current CO$ scene. DM’s valence has poisoned the personalities of so many young MAAs, Execs, sups, Reges, even public, (I know some OT 8s that act in this same valance. They are some of the most intolerant and non-ARCful people I have ever met. They are the survivors who didn’t blow or die in DM’s Church of Fools.)
If you are looking for the who that is suppressing mans “only hope” and found this valence permeating all the staff, just follow it back to the source. That’s your culprit. Who else could it be????? Who else has the power? He is the undisputed ‘der leader’ who never had an evil thought, never needs to write-up O/Ws or has ever been sec checked, or even ever does he have to go in session because he is just so perfect. )
It really sucks to be under miscavige’s thumb.
X, you have made the most eloquent, astute observations
possible, for one still an insider. As for your “feigned” WHO?
I take it you’re just being facetious, since you allude to every
other facet of knowing “exactly” “who.” One bright individual
indeed, it’s time you took your life back, with or without your
loved ones, since locked into that house of horrors, nobody
keeps their sanity for long.You will need to be brave, period!
Just keep reading this blog, or better still, get hold of a copy
of Marty’s new book, WIWWS, and that will empower your
emancipation eve faster, I’m sure.
Bottom line recommendation? Disconnect now!!!! Figure
out what to do about it, afterwards! (BTW, there’s help
available to you,to affect that decision. Just ask Marty for
directions, I’m sure he’ll help.)
You will be fine at the end of this, you’ll see!
Easy……dial back the throttle a bit and gives this one room to breath. He know already knows ” who?”. We are all going to come to this on our on terms and just thinking let alone saying ” David Miscaviage! ” is still dangerous and has consequences for many. Family, friends, income and reality can all immediatly come under pressure.
Good post and thank you for writing it!
Simple I agree. Scientologist X is not, it cannot be just an average Kool Aid Drinker. Is he 20 years old maybe? Maybe 22?
To me the guy means business! Go Scientologist X!
Eventually, even Sandusky was brought to book. So it will be for Scientology Inc. It would have been better for Penn State if they had cleaned house themselves. So it is for corporate Scientology.
Excellent observation, Haydn. As you said above, “…too few people being willing to stand up and tell the truth.”
Indeed, there is an undeclared race occurring between the forces which are destroying the organization, and the potential confront of those still inside. If the collective parishioners and staff fail to stand up against the abuses and destruction, they will endure the thing collapsing on their heads.
At some point, I expect for them to do so, but will it be too little, too late? The thing cannot sustain itself, and is headed for a great reckoning of some sort. It remains to be seen whether the organization can survive the virus that has rotted its core and eaten out its organs.
Scientology, Inc. is going down the tubes for the reasons you have written, but Scientology technology is alive and well in the independent field along with about 85% of all trained auditors.
When you complete your doubt formula and become an independent, you will soon discover that you can generate a decent income as a field auditor because there are tens of thousands of clears who are stuck on the Bridge because someone arbitrarily decided they were not clear.
You will find that there are many of us who will be more than happy to assist you in getting oriented and connected up to people who can help you.
If you can separate yourself from the indoctrination you have been immersed in for so many years, you will find there is a whole new life waiting for you.
Let me know if I can help in any way.
David St Lawrence
Haydn, apart from all what you say which is correct and very to the point, one thing that pulled the trigger for me was the child abuse in corporate Scientology. I remember the SO kids in Korona the SO berthing in Copenhagen. They wouldn’t have anything, no money, no good food, nothing. I said to myself, are my children gonna grow up like that? Thanks to DM this didn’t happen, he did away with kids, lol.
And I was wondering? Why? Why are the kids of the SO so depraved and downtrodden? Why wouldn’t they have any toys or something, some ground they could play. That was too serious for me. And that together with their bad education and the horrible unhatted and indifferent nannies was ABUSE to the hilt.
SCN X, VVWD. Keep postulating a solution and
path will open for you , take it ! and dont look back.
Dear X. You find yourself in not unfamiliar territory for so many here. Your taking your time and no one can ever accuse you of having rushed to judgement. But you need to confront the situation. Talking about it will not help the church that you loved.
You are at a wake. The church you knew and loved is in the casket. And those mulling around are saying :”I cant’ believe it”, and “just yesterday” and “he looked so good”. But he is dead. Go over there and kneel, say goodbye, make your vows to meet again, and carry on with practicing scientology.
The church may be a corpse, but the dream lives on and the spirit has safely fled to the field with those who have always understood it and practice it as it was intended.
Your in good company here. I think you know that. Welcome.
Another note to Scientologist X,
There are a load of people out here who will help you should you need it when you make the break. If you find yourself bereft of family and friends, alone and thinking you’ve got no support system, get on the phone/email etc. Let us know. There is abundant help out here. I can safely speak for this group of Indies when I say we will not let you flounder all by yourself.
We do NOT want to see you go the way of Alexander Jentzsch who, it would appear, had no support system in place, thanks to the church’s disconnection policies. From what I’ve read, he had no help. The one person who could have helped him, his mother, was considered persona non grata. I feel that this cost Alexander his life.
Keep in touch as you progress through your journey.
For the record X, I know the history of Alexander better than most – and unless you do a severe U turn you have zero chance of winding up like Alexander.
Scientologist X, we are so many more now… and every day more are coming out! But you are a big being since at this body age you have the clear mind to ask the questions and the soul to keep asking them and get your answer.
We are many many more now and more are coming. And more will come because of you. You don’t have to be afraid of anything. Just find out and spread the word.
That’s what we have been doing. Gathering up spreading the word and strengthening our voice, the true voice about Scientology. Good luck and welcome.
Thank you for sharing your story with us! I do recommend you voice your observations and concerns to your family and friends within the church as I did right after completing my doubt. Some of them acknowledged, some went off and some chose not to respond. All I know is that I communicated freely and it felt great!!! I will be there for all of them when they are ready to make their move. It’s wonderful being at the cause point!
Now as to your question of “who is responsible?” Would it make sense, knowing how much control this church like to run on their parishioners (especially control over our money), to hold this current COB accountable for all those changes you’ve observed?
I am sure it is tough for you! I recommend to communicate a lot with your family making it clear that you are a family unit first and foremost!
If you need help, please fee free to contact me: email@example.com
Also if you want a friend in Portland, OR. I have a 19 year old son who can have more friends!
He’s posting here because he considers it a safe place to discuss his pain at the betrayal of corporate Scientology. Your impatience with him is likely to make him feel that even here s/he will be attacked and criticized.
An attitude of encouragement would be better so that s/he will be more likely to continue to connect with people through more posting. Maybe s/he hasn’t gotten to the bitter stage yet; don’t push them in that direction.
S/he is trying to be responsible in not indicting Miscavige, who, after all, is being enabled in his abuse by the flunkies who surround and support him. He isn’t the only one who is destroying the “church” from within.
I agree on X’s gifts. I would add inquisitive like LRH himself.Searching for the truth, and he will find it.
Fantastic! What a wonderful set of questions which I believe is a perfect gradient to confront for those still in David Miscavige’s Frankenstein monster.
She/he is already out of the trap, though perhaps not physically, yet. Once the questioning starts, the facade exposes itself.
I look at these questions as a good list for other corporate Scientologists. I’ve posed these questions already to “GoodStanding” on Amazon, if he/she hasn’t already cowardly blown from our conversation with non-confront. We’ll see what happens. At minimum, I hope to have planted a seed of doubt. These questions are perfect for that, IMO.
Very Well Done!, whoever you are. THANK YOU. You’re a brave soul. You tugged on my heart-strings with:
“Before I rush headlong any further down this terrifying path, I want to take a
minute to say to everyone in my family: I love you. Please don’t stop
loving me. :’ (“
Pat you are right and there are legal consequences for the church to have done that to Alexander. It is proven beyond doubt that the disconnection policy and the impossibility to see the father either, led Alexander in some kind of weird exile the one only Miscavige can place around people. Tony Ortega commented on that on his site and there must be repercussions. The kid was forbidden to have his parents.
Well written excellent questions that when answered will move that person along into a brighter future.
On this blog you have started what I believe your dissemination purpose. Please expand the distribution to others that need to think more for themselves than they are currently allowed. Your questions are broad enough that at least one or two will resonate with most anyone.
That may be the case but the point I was trying to make is that when someone comes face to face with disconnection on a grand scale (family, friends and perhaps job too) there’s bound to be a sense of loss. Regardless of ones awareness and intelligence, at times life can look bleak when at the receiving end of the cult’s disconnection policies. That’s the time to reach out for new terminals in the Indy group. That’s all.
Dear viewer from the inside,
I was introduced to Scientology at 14. I finally signed up for my first at just two weeks after 16.
I very well understand comparing the past to the now. We bought into a brand of Scientology and made our commitments to that.
The brand has changed. Call it “bait and switch” if you will.
For some time, the Church became a womb for me. Yes, there were siblings that fought for nutrients the womb provided. Yes, there were some losses in that womb. Yes, I became comfortable there in a certainty it would be safe enough for me to grow to a point I could leave it and be O.K..
Everything changes and all what we see is temporary. This is a blessing and a curse depending on how you flow and adapt to change.
What you speak of is change.
I changed, you changed, the womb changed.
You have outgrown the womb and the womb has become polluted.
This is actually natural. Leaving the womb is called dissemination.
Hubbard encouraged people to grow at a fast rate and leave the womb as soon as possible and disseminate.
The dissemination lines at the Church have been cut for many decades.
People are encouarged to remain in the womb and it is even considered suppressive to exit the womb.
This is against all the laws of nature and evolution.
It is a plus point that you are aware of these conditions. Your time has come.
Thanks. My point was that Alexander became a card-carrying OSA agent; and as such sold his soul. The end became inevitably ugly.
Dear Scientologist X,
Applause for your lucid observation and communication. Your process began with *observation*.. highly commendable that you looked and saw without compromising or justifying to explain the various situations you observed that simply are not Scientology.
That’s admirable integrity, especially when done despite attempts by the internal corruption in the hijacked Church to introvert. The ability to look and to communicate.is the stuff that, ironically, is the foundation of pure Scientology as gifted to humankind by its founder…
Your reaching out was also very moving to me personally because it reminded me of the days I knew when the orgs were fun, and even my nonScientologist friends visited there. I remember attesting to Clear, and how the auditors in the org gathered round, rightfully proud of their jobs and sharing the relief and joy as if it were their own. There was a celebration, and each person had something to bring to it … the HGC’s lead auditor wanted me to hear a piece of music (as I’d never listened before :-), another was exuberant about my personal success. It was glorious. It was my group. We believed in a better world. We rejoiced when a person triumphed over personal obstacles and undid shackles of eons.
Just by the very questions you ask, you pledge allegiance to the Creed of Scientology, to the Auditor’s Code, to Scientology itself. Thank you for doing that. In the same way, every citizen’s duty of holding officials accountable for our nation’s founding principle’s is a pledge of allegiance to America.
Your questions serve as excellent guidelines for others looking. I loved every single question you asked! As for your personal road to truth, you need answers to your questions. I don’t need to tell you to hold true to your personal integrity, because listening to you, it sounds like the way you live.
I do ask you one thing — please share the answers to your questions here. Not every one out here is on the same page. But I don’t think you can go wrong if you embrace Truth, with your skills, and not fall into the trap of binary thinking (dichotomies) to sort this out. I look at it as a big caly demo….the label (what person’s call themselves) doesn’t always match the mass/reality. And sometimes it does.
Personally, I found that it was impossible to change things from within precisely because of the Who whom you are seeking to identify.
Though I cannot speak for them, it appears that Debbie Cook and Luis Garcia and Marty Rathbun and many others, after every possible effort, made the same call — when the sickness is up lines, the whole process is stacked to harm and squash people. And that IS the current state of the “Church of Scientology” — by its own abuse and actions, it is a corrupt other-intentioned, other-agenda travesty.
If you can think of a way to save Scientology, that is the real heart of the matter. The practice of pure Scientology, in my opinion, is the holy place. If a group is not practicing LRH Policy, it is not, by definition, a Church of Scientology.
“I just never thought it would be like this.” My friend, you speak for all of us!
Hey X — thank you for your sharing this communication with us. You are on track. Know what you know. Observe what you observe. See what is there. Maintain your personal integrity and ride the storm. There is a very large and ever-growing community and family of Scientologists, just like you, out here in the independent (non-Corp Scn) field. And we are recreating what Scientology once was. You are welcome here, when ever you feel the time is right to come out from under the radar.
I feel your pain – I really do. To a greater or lesser degree everyone here does, we all went through the same process.
And the way out is the way through. You have made valid observations, and there is nothing wrong with asking the questions you ask, that’s what auditors do.
If you observe that auditing sessions across the boards are not anymore happy safe things to be in, then you have to ask the question “WTF? And who exactly made auditing sessions not safe anymore?” The person who’s name is the answer will be most upset when you ask that question but in a way you are just pulling a withhold.
Hang in there buddy, and get your answers. You already have all the tools – Doubt, Data Series, observation, so use the one that fits. When you have the answers, you’ll know.
If you need it, there’s an entire support network out here that can help you, many of them are the best auditors around. You just have to ask.
I must first say, thank you so much for writing this. Your communication proves the power of Scientology does in fact help a person be a better person. It makes the able more able. As able as you already are, you my friend are becoming yet again, more able through your efforts!
What suddenly came to MY mind of what is at play for you here is the clip from the Cruise movie A Few Good Men which I am pretty sure your are very familiar with. “I want the TRUTH” and the church is telling you “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH”. Well, like in the movie your not buying into that crap and are persisting in search of the truth as the TRUTH brings about as-isness.
I’d actually like to talk with you, not in the interest of selling you on anything but to give you pure reality on what it was like for ME and what I’ve done to arrive at where I am at. Support from others in this situation helps tremendously. Of course, the choice is up to you but you are MORE than welcome to reach out and communicate with me if you’d like.
I deal only in the truth, nothing more and nothing less as the truth is well… the truth and that is what I can give you to help provide answers to your questions.
626 712 0668
Awesome story. Like so many others. But that does not make it less hard for you. I pity you and hope you’ll be able soon to set yourself free. You owe it to yourself, you know.
And: your questions are rhetorical questions, but that you know of course.
We and you know the answer. There is only one answer. There’s no denying it any longer.
“you could always write to Ron and get your questions answered”
You could always write to “Ethics” and get your questions, money accounts, and life crushed.
Don’t listen to liars and hate mongers who say we are only for rich people: we train you how to borrow money, get new credit cards, sell your house and even use your retirement account!.
Should you have any more questions, we offer you state of the art processing: gang-bang style sec checking!
Still more questions? We now have GAE, the Golden Age of Efficiency: No more Dev-T using the lower ethic steps. We directly offer you state of the art, high quality goldenrod. Didn’t you received it? GAE is so efficient, we don’t waste time and paper sending or showing it to you. But that’s not all. We now have GAG, the Golden Age of Generosity: we do all the work for you! We send and show your goldenrod to all your relatives, friends, acquaintances, business associates, colleagues, and workmates; and we do it (thanks to GAE) before you know it!
X – Jason Beghe addresses this SPECIFICALLY in his appearance in Germany. Here is the link:
Miscavige is a thug in a three piece suit with his hand in your pocket.
I hope it is okay to put a link on here. If I have done wrong, I apologize. But it is exactly what X is speaking about. Beghe calls it “criminal”. It is. Just the fact that he is living in a 70 million mansion with his ridiculous bikes, etc. Please – he is a thief with a capital T. Someone called him a runt on this site. Perfect word. Please, please don’t let him do this to you anymore. Good luck!
You guys need the Indie Missions more than ever. All the best.
Welcome the Reformation, ‘X’. You’ll soon discover that the brightest, ablest, most experienced, and most dedicated Scientologists on the planet, are out here in the light, free of the death grip that is constricting the life out of the church.
Ron said, “The work was free. Keep it so.” You’ll be happy to know that the true friends of LRH are doing just that, outside the corrupted church.
Hi Scientologist X,
I’ve never been in Scientology, but it’s good to see you take the step that few people (in Scientology or not) take. No matter what you conclude about your religion, you have taken an important step by recognizing that you are the arbiter of reality. You, not David Miscavige, not L. Ron Hubbard, not Marty Rathbun, but you, are the only one that can choose what to believe and how to act on those beliefs. With this freedom comes responsibility. Choose wisely; act boldly. Good luck.
Totally agree. The selection of Jimmy Cliff was perfect!
Hmmm. Fundraising (regging) abuses date back a lot longer than your recollection, Mr. X (Mr?). About 20 years ago, American Express shut down charges from COS after so many of their Scientologist card members defaulted on their bills after being mercilessly reg’d for IAS donations and the like. Not sure if the ban continues (can the COS take Amex now? I’m curious to know).
I’m also curious about cancer. Seems like so many Scientologists are reg’d for lots of intensives when they are sick and most don’t seek traditional medical treatment until it is too late, if at all (e.g. Gloria Rusch-Novello/breast cancer). Scientologists are not alone in this methodology, Steve Jobs being the most recent, famous, example of someone eschewing traditional medicine (and paying the ultimate price, body-wise).
I get the feeling that just contracting a serious illness is considered bad PR for the church. I also get the feeling that every severely ill parishioner is another chance to prove that the technology of Scientology is superior to traditional medicine – if you keep shoving auditing down all these sick people while coercing them into avoiding traditional medicine, maybe one will actually survive. And then an elaborate case study can be used to further the myth that Scientology – and Scientology alone – can cure disease.
I observed, experienced or heard of physical and mental abuse, sleep deprivation, abortion recommendations, humiliation and astounding avarice in the church over 20 years ago. I don’t see these as recent events.
It’s a damn shame that we are so easily duped and coerced into duping others. Perhaps we are primed for it. A key to getting someone into Scientology is to find their ruin. If someone is doing pretty good, they usually take a pass on Scientology until some life event forces them to be more introspective. This is a fragile state; a state that is easily manipulated.
And we are manipulated. Then, as we get better, we become the manipulators, as needed, particularly in support of the greatest good. One day we wake up and feel bad about all the horrific shit we did. We wallow a bit in propitiation…
And then we get angry.
Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned.
Nor hell a fury like an OT burned.
You have missed the boat on this one. Of course he knows the answers to these questions! Scientologist X is obviously a very intelligent person; after all, how many Class Vs do you know that got there at age 15?
The mere fact that he has posted here, at Marty’s blog, means he has been looking and learning the truth. He then made the decision to leave, but how to do so in the most effective manner? His communication is directed at those inside, trapped by the jail bars of their own making. He has brilliantly voiced the questions that EVERY remaining member of the CO$ has, but dares not to voice. A perfect application of his auditor hat, if you ask me.
Ask the questions, let the PC look and he will come up with his own answers. Just BRILLIANTTTTTT!!!
Scientologist X also probably knows that anything that gets posted here gets a wide circulation, and in this fashion I’m sure many current kool-aid drinkers will get his comm. Many.
And he also probably knows that disconnection from his family will soon follow, but he chose to write this nevertheless. Courageous.
Don’t worry, Scientologist X. They will come around in time. They will all wake up sooner or later. It’s inevitable. And when they do, you’ll be there with open arms. You will gain a new family and many new friends here with us, so don’t fret.
I always thought you were a smart cookie, Scientologist X. Certainly the smartest in your family. I wasn’t wrong. Drop me a line when you are ready. I’d love to reconnect with you. Luis.Garcia.OTVIII@gmail.com
Lots of love,
P.S.: And oh yeah! Before I forget… I got a good laugh at what they told you about me… “bad all along” and that he had been “planning an evil attack of
Scientology the whole time”. That would mean that the dozens of auditors, that sec-checked me for hundreds of hours aren’t worth a shit.
X – it takes guts (which apparently you have) but anything can be solved with Scientology. Apply the conditions to the real world around, perhaps you need a bit of mass on what your Dynamics actually are. The Church has long since hidden life from it’s members.
Best of luck in your journey, you’ve taken a big step. Now take another.
Your observations are well written and accurate.
The survival of Scientology is based on it’s successful application. In it’s current corporate state, it is daily being alloyed to the point that it no longer represents what it was, or was meant to be.
Not an easy thing to confront, but you see it.
We have all had to walk down the path you are walking. The good news is that REAL Scientology exists, without the suppressive additives and alterations. COB does not have a monopoly on Scientology, as others may have you believe.
I think you will find that once you make your decision to do something about it, you will look back at this point and wonder why you didn’t act sooner. Because what you are observing, and the evil that is behind it, are real. And as we all wake up to it and take action against it, the tipping point will be achieved and we can move past the current insanity.
Good luck in your journey..
Totally agree. X has demonstrated incredible intelligence and insight. I’m so happy for him.
Thanks for your amazing writeup. I wish you the best of luck with your upcoming SP declare. This is now a badge of honor, reserved for only the best Scientologists.
You have VALID questions of VALID out-nesses. I’m a 2nd Gen Scientologist, sounds to be about the same age. I’m finally out of Doubt and not Declared. E-mail me: firstname.lastname@example.org Please keep names private.
You have nailed, squarely on the head, every question every Scientologist should be asking.
Three years ago, or a little more, I heard that the I.G. Ethics had left the org. WHAT? The Inspector General for Ethics… walked away from the “church?” My mind raced and for the first time in years, I began to research, ask questions, dig dig dig. I had blown from the Austin Org back in 95′ because things were so outta whack, but I couldn’t do anything about it. I had to go. I truly felt I had no choice. BUT… I stayed off-lines. I did not want to enterbulate anyone because I knew I was going to be declared. Didn’t talk to anyone because I knew they wouldn’t talk to me. I stayed gone. Until I heard about Marty. And bless him… I found him and he called me! We had a wonderful conversation and a huge weight had been lifted. We stayed in great comm, but his blog started to really take off. So I backed off. His game had gotten bigger than I could partake in, so I gave him his space.
And look at the effects he is creating now.
Between this blog, and Friends of LRH, you will find all the answers you seek. You may not like the answers, but they are all hear.
The GOOD NEWS is, Scientology isn’t gone. It isn’t dead. It isn’t even dying. It is thriving! It’s alive and it’s whistiling the time, place, form & event! Many great auditors are out HERE, working, auditing, training, teaching. There are Scientologists from one coast to the other, and across the globe, all helping people just like you find that there is a safe place to land. Where people still go Clear. Where people CAN GO… O.T. And they are doing it all the way Ron said to.
What you need to do now is, apply the Tech. What do you need to apply? Start with the conditions formulas. But find a book that actually has the formulas and not an alteration of the formulas. (That was what really pissed me off: alter-is of the Ethics book. I loved that book! And it was changed? Huh?) Do what Ron says. Apply K.S.W. Apply the right conditions formula. Actually DO IT. Don’t walk through it. DO EACH STEP.
And one more thing: Re-read the Code of Honor. Listen to Ron. Don’t listen to me, or anyone else for that matter. Listen to Ron and what he said to do. That can only be good, right?
Be true to yourself. Do the right thing. Listen to what Ron said to do.
X, You used the words embarrassed and ashamed. We may never know how many others who are still in share those same feelings. Because to express those feelings would certainly land you in trouble. I recently spoke with an inactive non-declared person who spent 3-4 years on OT VII. This person confided that they didn’t think the the wins that were originally promised were even possible. I don’t believe the church will ever be able to get this person back on services because of the horrible experience of being forced to stay at flag for several weeks past the expected departure date. All because of a crack-down that had nothing to do with the people being forced to stay at Flag. Classic – the dog barks so you kick the cat.
It will be interesting to hear more about your journey. I hope you keep this blog posted on your progress toward truth.
Dear Scientologist X,
your communication has touched me.
I have found the following to be successful :
1. Listen to the lecture “The Overt-Motivator-Sequence” of 4 March 62 in application of the situation. (You have studied it on Level 2.) When Ron found that it didn’t exist, he held this lecture.
2. Get anybody you can to listen to that tape. It blows any suppression on “You must not look.” And it explains why that is the death of a group.
3. Having found the Who is an important step. Finding next the Why will open the door to a handling you can do. (The full Data-Series contains all needed information and explains how to go about.)
4. Get anyone to study and understand the Data-Series. The course is out in the net.
Lots of success.
That would mean that the dozens of auditors, that sec-checked me for hundreds of hours aren’t worth a shit.
True that. Whether they missed anything or not Luis, I would say the hundreds of hours of sec checking were probably NOT worth a shit…..
Just Saying– You chastising Mr. X for being young? Sure, it started over 30 years ago actually. But that was at the top and didn’t necessarily reach down to every level and reach regular staff and Scientologists like Mr. X till much later, and not with such pervasiveness until the last 10 years or so.
Anyway, just wanted to come to the defense of Scientologist X who has just submitted one of the best posts here ever.
Mr or Miss X–you really are a Scientologist, and so being, you don’t need anyone’s opinion here. “Just the fact Ma’am” (famous line from Joe Friday, the detective on the old Dragnet series). And there’s plenty of those to be found right here. (but I guess you know that already).
Well written summary of questions based on intelligent observations X. If anyone honestly reviews all the data and information available on this blog and in other places, the answers will be obvious. But the truth is the questions don’t need to be answered. It doesnt matter. The questions are statements of fact and then “Who is responsible?”. The facts delineated in the questions tell you all you need to know about whether this is a group that should be helped or supported. And that’s the real point — nobody in their right mind would want to participate and flow power to a squirrel group like the one you describe….
“That would mean that the dozens of auditors, that sec-checked me for hundreds of hours aren’t worth a shit.”
Well said Luis. That is the long and the short of it!
“I’m an auditor. I don’t like being told not to communicate.”
Yes!!! Your comm line to Luis Garcia has been severely cut and suppressed. I suggest you to get that comm line back – it belongs to you. All your observations and conclusions are very correct!!! You were threatened “within an inch of your life” because the staff are very intimidated and the “WHO?” is scared that you and others in the Church are finding out the truth. If the comm in the Church would not be suppressed – and the disconnections are a vicious part of it – the “WHO?” would be visible like sb in a spot light.
Welcome and thank you for telling so clearly what is happening inside. – Karola
LRH has been gone a long time. It’s Miscavige’s church now.
If you haven’t read it yet I recommend Marty’s book.
All I can say is that I must be one of the most
fortunate people on the planet to have
left miscavige after one meeting with him and one
screwed up D of P cycle.
When they tried weird stuff on me at Flag the first time
back in the early 90’s,
I was out the door in a New York minute.
Can’t see why anyone in that Church
puts up with such confusion.
By the way, miscavige tried to get me to
do OT8 all over again with the truncated
version. I said “no thank you”.
I happen to really like synthetic karma.
May all beings be well and happy!
George M. White
“Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned.
Nor hell a fury like an OT burned.” ~ Just saying
I like that one!
I cant believe Bitter Defrocked Apostate was the first thing I read after that, talk about killing off an f/n… Thanks for, well, being a dick.
I applaud Scientology X. He is stating what he can SEE, HEAR, FEEL. Integrity….
Not assumptive, even thought he is probably 99.99999% intuitively and analytically sure about the answers, he is saying what it LOOKs like through his EYEBALLS. His own eyeballs.
Bitter Defrocked Apostate… he has more integrity than you, none so blind as those who THINK they see…
Well done Scio X. I hope your family never stops loving you… They should be very proud of you.
WRONG Mike, those hundreds of hours of sec checks were worth a lot of money to the “church”, give me your money, money, money, lots of it, I love it, mo money.
And what does Luis get in return. Well either stay and tow the line or we declare your ass. Your choice, but oh here’s what we don’t tell you, either choice you make, stay or leave, we still end up cutting or blocking your communications, so you lose buster.
Thank you for what you have written and sharing it. You’re observations are astute and you have shown courage in asking your questions.
Now I believe you just need to connect the dots.
Good luck and you now know where to find a whole bunch of people who regard LRH in the same way, who have already asked and answered their own questions and maintained their integrity.
IEG — with respect. You may not consider yourself a Scientologist, but I must note that your ability to think for yourself, your willingness and ease of communication and your compassion for others makes you a lot better Scientologist than many of those card-carrying members of the IAS. God Save the Queen 🙂
I remember you on the Freewinds, 1991. Thank you for your brave stab and I just know you’ve done the right thing. (Yeah that gradient stuff.) But here you are proud as punch. All you got left is to sign your name.
While I read your missive this song came to mind. My heartfelt best wishes to you and yours. I admire you. You’re a brave and insightful being.
yes sir ScnX, I get your com 🙂 . But consider what Howard and Luis state and consider what you wrote:
“At the age of fifteen I was a Golden Age of Tech trained Class V
So, what does your statement mean? Is your Golden Age training really worth it? So what are you going to “heal”? The wrong tech, the wrong religion, oh yes, it’s an “applied religious philosophy”.
Lets see, Luis and tons of others get hundreds of hours of sec checks. That means they are supposedly “clear” of bad actions and can now think clearly.
I love your write up! And I love your questions, they are good ones!
You are a unique soul in that you managed with all your history to keep a personal integrity about you that enables you to observe the obvious better than most anyone I have met in the church.
I’m amazed and excited because it gives me hope that there are more like you!
Thanks again, I learned from your write-up. And thanks for the great song, Marty.
love, Laura Ann
You’re so right. And judging by Tony O’s latest column, things just got a little uglier.
People still “in” need to realize that when you make a deal with the devil, it won’t end well. It simply can’t.
I like this one——
” A key to getting someone into Scientology is to find their ruin.”
Maybe the key now for somebody in the “church” is to find that ruin, that ruin being the “church” is ruining their lives. 🙂 Mo money please, IAS, Ideal orgies, Way to Happy,
I’m just say’in too.
I get it. I read your earlier post on another site and didn’t duplicate your communication. I do now. This was brilliantly written and will cause many ripple effects. You are being ‘Help’ by allowing those still blinded and confused to get the message in a way they will understand. Bravo!
I’ll give you an ack. I am well and happy having found lots of truths here. Thank You.
I will not reveal anything more about Alexander’s death or my 2 hour interview with the LAPD Homicide Detectives.
I will not compromise an ongoing investigation.
If Tony’ Ortega’s essay today gives the impression that this is all over with, then that is incorrect.
Everyone is waiting for the Toxicology tests. Investigation is wide open and on-going.
We do not even know if there was any methodone in his system.
What we do know, is that ALEXANDER JENTZSCH is the poster child for everything inhumane, abusive, rotten and dark about the “Church” of Scientology.
Almost 25 years in the SEA Organization and dead at 27 of DRUGS depending what comes from the toxicology reports.
A Boy without a dad, as no father/son relationship was permitted by David Miscavige who kept his father in the gulag “SP Hole” since 2004, trotted out for “window dressing” 2 or 3 times in 8 years.
Alexander was orphaned by the “Church.” His parents were not permitted to be parents. He was seduced to report to OSA as all 2nd generation Scientologists are trained to do. Rat on their parents. That is the culture.
A boy without a mother as the “Church” instigated its toxic “DISCONNECTION” policy. (shunned/excommunicated)
When Alexander’s life spun out of control, separated from wife, lost his job, no father he could call, enforced disconnection from MOM, Alexander called Kerstin Caetano, External Security Chief of “Office of Special Affairs.” I was not informed that he was penniless. I only found out recently that he was calling people to borrow money to get back on his feet.
I was not allowed to be a mom, because the “Church” of Scientology is a Church of hatred and divisiveness and would rather a boy be DEAD than be permitted to re-connect with a parent who is a whistleblower.
The maliciousness and petty vindictiveness at me, a whistleblower for 2 /1 2 years was dramatized to the point of not letting me have a final view before cremation, and letting Alexander’s dead body lie at the morgue for days without informing me of his death. And I was a 35 year member of that “church.”
I love Steven Weinberg for saying this~~
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”
Steven Weinberg American physicist
Edit / Delete
It really hurt to read what you wrote, your cry of bafflement and betrayal, as you describe the dashing of your own shining hope, dignity and joy. I have met the children you describe, with their lined faces and torn hearts, still hopeful that they can make it all right. I have seen the shock and disbelief and the pain as everything they grew up to believe is taken from them with callous disregard.
I know that what I am about to say runs contrary to the idea that one must apply doubt, but that may not be your condition at all. I once was in your position, doing my best and getting blindsided by unethical actions on the part of my group and its leadership. You have already gone a long ways to assign the condition where it belongs — it belongs to that group called the Church of Scientology, to those who perpetrate the ills you have observed. I’m pretty sure its lower than doubt. I guess what I am saying is that your freedom begins with ensuring that you do not accept a condition that isn’t your own.
For what it’s worth, what I have found on my way is that the most important things is to do what you know to be right to care for yourself, your family and your own integrity as you find your way. Never mind what anyone else says. They don’t have to live your life. And that’s ground zero. And then having taken steps to care for yourself and your loved ones, then you can see what you can do for the good of the group or for the good of Scientology.
Take heart and keep your courage, for there is a huge, wide world that has a amazing capacity for love and caring and hope that will help to light your way. You will find that there are many, many kind hands that take your hand in friendship and help as you find your way in and outside of this community.
Along with everyone on this blog, I wish you well, and bless you for your courage.
I love this. I love your attitude. I love your measured and non accusative tone even when there is so much to warrant it. I love your insights and passion.
Thank you for communicating.
Curacao sounds about right. With accounts in the Caymans?
Hang up at Doubt is either False Data or PTS. If it is False Data, the first step is to have the TRUE and CORRECT data to hand. How many have asked to see the stats? How many have been shown them? How many have gotten “glowing PR” instead?
At that point, where lies are given instead of truth, where application of the CORRECT technology is thwarted….then it does become a matter of Integrity. Or lack of it, depending upon which side of the fence you are on.
I like this young Padawan. Keep looking. The truth will set you free.
If someone had read Dianetics and wished to further their study into LRH (ideally without stepping foot into a church), where should they look next? What should they read next?
Any responses would be appreciated
Also, Scientologist X – never stop questioning. Wherever life takes you. It wont make you popular, but it will make you wise 🙂
All the best
If one looks for attacks, one will find them. I wasn’t commenting on Mr. X’s youth, morelives, I was commenting that what s/he speaks of is old news to me, is all. Cool?
So, it took 20-30 years for enough of the insiders who (by their own admission) perpetrated many of the inhumanities noted in Mr. X’s and others posts to leave before (most) others took notice. Understood. (and understood on how/why they did what they did. I. get. It.)
Me. I’ve been waiting for the troops to arrive. A long time waiting. They silenced Bob Minton. I thought maybe he could head up the charge. But no, he wasn’t up for the job, may he rest in peace. A few eloquent OT VII/I’s have made some nice points along the way as well. Me? I’m chickenshit. I can’t take it. Scieno-bots hunting me down and banging on my door. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt. I wasn’t raised to be a suicide bomber.
But now we have Marty, Rinder and other highly influential and experienced ex-Scientology Executives leading the charge (sorry, Mr. Minton, what you didn’t know did hurt you in the end – these guys know all the black arts that will be used against them).
Leaders and a road map. Boo-ya.
Integrate or Disintegrate
Evolve or Dissolve
Transcend or Descend
You see, extremism is bullshit. The Middle Road is the way out. The Middle Road is the way through. There have never been more blasphemous words spoken. There have never been more true statements made. Thank you, Marty, for voicing them.
Love you, man.
As I read your letter I couldn’t help but think about being on lines at the OC Org in the 80’S and early 90’s, playing sports with all this kids around. It was a really theta group. I read it with the thought that you were one of these kids that I watched grow up in such a great environment. It saddens me to hear what you had to experience, but I’m also extremely inspired by the maturity you show here. You appear to have insight beyond your years and also communicate with tremendous ARC. I think you know the truth about DM, but I’m not 100% sure so I want to give you a small piece of advice. You don’t have to see someone commit a crime to know they did it. The Germans in WW II didn’t have top see Hitler order the atrocities that were carried out to know he was the one responsible. DM will completely destroy the Church of Scientology if he’s allowed. You seem to have a lot to say and I hope you’re able to come forward and communicate it.
Hey NO FUCKING PROBLEM!!!
I’m glad to see you post here. Very happy. BOO YA!
Wow! Just Wow!
Wow, incredible message. This is so fucked up Scn Inc. Strangely I was contacted last week by a long time IAS Reg who was the last person I ever thought would be on the fence, as she was a loyal person to the bunker. She Betsy and I worked in the trenches together for years.
She is flipping wildly back and forth just in the past few days, I have decided there comes a time when all I can say to one such person is go through your process and decide for yourself. I know if she is contacting me out of the blue there are many others. Sad.
“That would mean that the dozens of auditors, that sec-checked me for hundreds of hours aren’t worth a shit.”
That seems to apply to a lot of what you get in the CO$ these days. Just how did so many SPs get through all the auditing and sec checks, etc. to get to the point where they were highly trained and/or OT before they left and showed their true colors? How did that happen if the auditing is any good? How did that happen if the lines are in properly? How come they weren’t flushed out sooner? If all the independents truly are SPs and/or bitter apostates, then there are more than a few pink sheets due. Tech inside the church is a joke no matter how you view it. Golden age of tech is pretty tarnished.
You sound very sane, aware, honest and intelligent. You are also well trained as a Scientologist and know what you know.
I hate to beak this to you but – you fit all of the points of a “suppressive person” per the “church” of Scientology. Get ready to change your life. I have no doubt that there are flying OSA monkeys working around the clock to uncover your identity and shut you down before you tip off any obedient sheeple.
You have committed the ultimate crime – you have started to LOOK and THINK for yourself.
Good luck my friend.
hang up at doubt.
doubt, trying to decide to decide to do something or not, be a part of a group or not, being in a 2d or not being a friend or not……….
So the Who is found. OK great. So you decide to continue with the group, Great.
Or you decide to not continue with the group. Guess what, you get declared SP from the group. Not individuals, but they group members go along with it, I guess, even if family. Disconnection.
So X, how are you going to “heal” the group, your religion?
Me thinks the “tech” has nothing to do with the group. I dunno.
DMSMH greatest SELF HELP book ever written. SELF HELP might be a key word or two.
WHO will replace DM????????????????
DM will completely destroy the Church of Scientology if he’s allowed. You seem to have a lot to say and I hope you’re able to come forward and communicate it.
Who will replace him? Where is it written?
I’m all for it. But who will replace him and/or is something set-up within the “churchs” legal structure to replace him???????????????
At this point I ask, and say screw the the HCOPL’s and HCOB’s, and only from a legal point of view, WHO will or would replace DM and WHY?
Your observations and write up are excellent!
May I recommend you continue your research. Google is your friend. You can find anything with the proper searches and believe me, all the answers you are seeking are there. You are obviously a very bright thetan so put your seat belt on and keep looking. The current Church is in “criminal mode” and it will only get worse. As I type these words there are people trapped in RPF’s that would make your blood curdle. There are people trapped in RPF’s that have dedicated their lives to the same purpose, you as a staff member have held in your heart.
As an auditor you are aware that wrong indications are very harmful to the pc. Invalidation of the state of Clear, out lists, incomplete grades, to say nothing of the over-zealous regging that continues unabated and the unnecessary sec checking crammed down the throats of the guys on OT 7… these are nightmares. The more that leave, the more WILL leave. You do not have to follow. You can lead and that will help those that you care about more than you can imagine. Thank you for your write up. As I said, one of the best I have seen and yes guys, his questions were rhetorical. He knows.
And why did DM replace LRH?
I’ve been in and out of Scientology, I have made my observations, I wrote many KR’s and analyzed LRH’s policy as well as many of the Basics and Congresses. I have read most of the blogs and heard all the arguments in the direction of David Miscavige. I saw the guy at an Ideal Org with his crew of “dark souls” after the grand opening ceremony. I still cannot honestly say that “David Miscavige” is the right why for me. It indicates on some things, but it is simply unreal to me that one person can effect so much suppression in a group of such powerful beings as many Scientologists are. It simply does not explain the amount of entheta that felt so think, it seemed like my whole body was being crushed under its weight. It just doesn’t explain that. Miscavige simply had this presense. It was very unusual. I could safely say that I’ve never encountered that before. I did run into other terminals that felt like robots in human form; it was like a solid, condensed mass of force with human being on the order of masquitos with their tiny fragile bodies. I was “crushed” by one of them accusing me of “spreading entheta.” The amount of enturbulation was extreme. It felt very invalidative to me that I could be crushed so easily. I even wondered how I could work up to be that powerful myself not in a way of crushing other, but in a way of being able to withstand anything.
I think it may be easy for former Execs to make and express their conclusions about DM because they have the experience of working directly with the man and seeing what he’s like behind the scene. For many others, the observations starts and ends with the man speaking from a podium at various events. What does seem strange to me is that he turned into nearly an object of worship by the group. It’s like David Miscavige is cause and everyone else is effect or expected to be. I wasn’t there, but I don’t think this was the case even with LRH. It seems like LRH wanted others to be cause, and he worked at it all his life. I even recall him saying something along the lines of a good leader is someone who is at cause, but who also allows other to be at cause (I think that’s in AP&A lectures).
“. You do not have to follow. You can lead and that will help those that you care about more than you can imagine.”
there is an actual auditing process that gives it , at least for me it did.
Silent process, auditor moves a piece of mest, then you move it.
I had one of the biggest cogs on it. Hey, I ‘m applying now, and partially (Grade 0) by communicating here on Marty’s blog. 🙂
I agree with your comment
Dear Scientologist X,
I am sure that every scietnologist inside the church has those exact questions/concerns, but not able to confront them. You are definitely a very aware and intelligent soul. Well done and welcome to the right side.
Your name sound very familiar? Do you have a profile here somewhere?
Your email is painful, I feel it and understand it. You sound like I did, almost one year ago, trying to make sense out of what happened to my church, too.
I have found through researching what 100’s of people have consistently said.
The WHO is David Miscaviage.
He expelled all of the brilliant auditors and staff LRH appointed. He bastardized the ethics, tech and admin that comprises LRH’s legacy.
Why? For money, power and domination.
Is someone who severely financially cripples dedicated, alive, fun-loving humanitarians, a social personality?
You’ve listed the casualties whom you’ve personally seen. My family and I are within the same category and have suffered the same things.
The good news is Scientology has an Independent movement. You are not stopped from carrying on.
When one looks and sees, they see either the truth or deny what they see. But, you still know
what you’ve observed and see the insane out-points.
I believe this is a reformation and it is happening in the Independent field. New people see the insanity in the corporate church. The important thing is that we all distinguish between the corporate church and the religion.
Thank you for saying what you did for Scientologist X. He is very brave and needs all of our support 🙂
Denise Brennan knows the answer?
They charge you for the sec checking though.
You are welcome. I have found lots of truths on this blog as well.
When I first saw “Moving on up higher” a few years ago, I thought
“Hey, that was my thought 20 years ago when I left the church. That’s what my aim is “. We are all sharing information and I appreciate your input.
“Just as a solid, massive rock
Remains unshaken by the wind,
So too in the face of blame and praise
The wise remain immovable” – Dhamapada
Wow. This is one of the best pieces I have read so far – a bright soul breaking through the darkness of suppression. May others follow into the light!
did conditions under the guidance of an EO” that is the problem. Ethics from what I studied while in was a personal thing. Unless you are new then why the hell do you need EO to eval and inval a “personal thing”. Cause your not trusted to do your own ethics. The org is on a make wrong cause you cannot be trusted. You should call the EO a justice officer bypassing your own self determinism. He has control over your ethics so he determines how to apply the conditions and what you do. It is justice officer with the group telling the EO what you should do like pay pay pay lol why no one sees its not what LRH wrote of course it gets bad results.
Dear Scientologist X,
IMHO, this is not the best suggestion:
“Disconnect now!!!! Figure out what to do about it, afterwards!”.
Follow Katie Holmes steps! Her planning and execution was state of the art flawless.
And, you can do it even better than Katie! Because you are going to keep (and advance) Scn’s exquisiteness, and discard Co$’s ugliness.
‘If you have the tech (and use it) it will protect you’. I do not know which reference that is, but you do.
Your posting demonstrates that you believe in the things found in red on white and green on white. It is very unfortunate that you are no longer encouraged to practice it within the church, and are actually being hindered. That is the sad state of affairs we have all found ourselves in, and it seems there is only one thing you can do, by asking yourself “What would Ron do?”, and then do it.
Thank you Dan for answering his questions. As well as answering questions for many of us who follow this blog.
By the way it just dawned on me that the Pro Trs film that many of us watched a number of times with you as the star student learning TRs must have been trashed after you left Int Mgmt. Does anyone know if a new one was made later?
Dear X – thank you for writing your observations. You validated EVERYTHING I have seen as well with my own eyes! Tons of people are out and not saying anything YET! Myself included. The Co$ is really evil and they don’t even try to hide it. The Class 5 Orgs are virtually empty and have been for years. Now those poor staff members have to deal with 50,000 sq.ft. of emptiness! Talk about pressure! The Ideal Orgs will be the financial downfall of the Co$. They are violating busness 101! Keep looking and read everything on the internet – the TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!! You are really observant and so right with what you have observed! Best of luck!! Keep us posted!
It will take some balls to cut loose from the church, and sometimes it can be hard to find enough indie terminals to help you, but one or two good terminals are enough to make it.
Thank you for your posting. I appreciate the concern you have about the “who”, but as an auditor you understand the effect of runnijg around asking who and what questions!
My stable datum is that our group is an expression of either policy or bank, and it is the agreement of the group that determines which wins.
No squirrel could survive without the cooperation and agreement of others.
My confidence is in the fact that if I spend more of my attention on what I can do right now to improve conditions in my own area and the areas around me, and stop fueling the group listing actions, the sooner we will all be back on track as a group.
Do what you think is right, and stop cooperating with what you feel is wrong.
Good luck in your application of the conditions. I’m sure everything will turn out right.
Off Topic but there are NO VM’s at Colorado movie
theater shooting. No VM yellow shirts.
Good points, LTC. DM could not have caused this effect without a lot of us being in agreement with it. That doesn’t mean we have to remain so, but it does take some “owning up” to get free of it, as each of us here has done in his/her own time and in his/her own way, and just as Sci X is doing now.
I theenk ees a joke on name Karen Pouw, church spokesperson, NON?
Very nice write-up. Evil takes a lot of confronting…it’s much easier to explain it away or not-is it. I was talking to someone today who said that she wants to just study the Golden Age of Knowledge and “so what if parts of LRH words were omitted”, wow, this is what I’m talking about, the confront of evil is just not there yet, no one has the right to omit any part of LRH tech, its horrifying and the fact that this could be callously disregarded is pretty astonishing as to the state of mind of some of those drinking the kool aid, they can’t confront the evil and instead justify it, wow. Scn X, it seems like your confront of this is there as you can actually see the outpoints without being reasonable, the road to truth is the far easier one and you are on it, not DM’s road to hell, good luck to you.
[Reposted from the last blog post.]
You asked above about further reading after DMSMH. I’d suggest the following books, in the following order:
1. “Science of Survival” (be sure to get/read the accompanying large chart)
2. “Dianetics 55!”
3. “A New Slant on Life”
4. “Fundamentals of Thought”
5. “Self Analysis” (take some time to try out the exercises in the book)
6. — Now go back and review the earlier books –
7. “Phoenix Lectures” (last printing was early 80s)
8. “Scientology 0-8″
9. “Scientology 8-8008″
(Any printings from the 70s, 80s or 90s is fine — even the 2007 “Basics” version will do in a pinch — the changes weren’t that significant.)
You may want to also pick up a “Scientology Technical Dictionary” (or at least the “Abridged Scientology Dictionary”) in case the books above don’t have good glossaries.
The two primary foundational documents in Scientology are the “Scientology Axioms” and “The Factors”. They are about half a dozen pages each. You’ll find those covered in the last three books, but it’s best to get the grounding in the earlier books first, before attempting to tackle the last three (though the “Scientology – It’s General Background” chapters in “Phoenix Lectures” are quite good, and reading those as a first step would not be a bad idea).
Doing the Comm Course during any part of reading the above (before or after step 5.) is a great idea. I know that in a few parts of the country (US), there are some non-CoS centers where you can do the Comm Course, take other courses, get training or get auditing. In the LA area, I know of two centers. And in Phx, I believe there is one. They also exist in Texas, Idaho, Illinois and I believe Florida. And one in Israel. Other locations exist too, but those are the ones that come to mind. All of the above deliver the “standard LRH Bridge” but without the crush sales, weird auditing alterations, or stat-focused behavior from the CoS.
There are also a few “traveling auditors”, and in LA, there are several full-time auditors who audit at their nearby center or at their home. And in most locations where there are centers, there are people looking to “co-audit” — meaning partnering up with someone else to learn and deliver auditing.
Drop me an email if you need help with any of the above: mesamarg @ earthlink . net
Damn straight he knows “WHO” – perhaps that guy and his entourage he ran into on the Freewinds in 2001?
However, it seems Scientologist X’s perception was a little off at the time. He says, “I remember being impressed with COB, both with his enormous presence and energy, and his short stature.”
Admittedly, some think that COB has “enormous presence and energy”, when in actuality it is just the fact that the black mass surrounding him is so huge, it casts him into relief against any background, making his body stand out – sort of a “pseudo presence”.
Ignore that and look into his eyes – you might catch a glimpse of him waaay down inside there. If you’re unlucky.
Agree. And apparently trying to make him feel dumb besides. When he obviously is not.
BDA, “It takes as long as it takes.”
You’re the age of my children. If I were your parents I would be proud, very, very proud because I’d know I’ve done the right job of turning you into a clear-thinking, compassionate human being, questioning decisions, desperately wanting to do right by all dynamics. If your parents are not proud of you, disregard them, pat yourself on the back and know that there’s a lot of us out there that are envious that your parents raised such an incredible human being that totally GOT IT. Live your life with truth, integrity, honor and “joy of creating” (my absolute favorite LRH poem) and you’ll live and die a happy man.
” The greatest joy there is in life is creating. Splurge on it” (LRH)
Dear X: Nice job. I love the way you pose the quesions to illustrate your lines of observations. I felt the woosh of your sword “slicing through insanity with a long blade of truth”.
Hey Cynthia, it just occurred to me that it all supports Miscavige’s contention that “The blind were leading the blind” and that’s why he had to create GAT and GAK.
The auditors really were no good “B.M.” (Before Miscavige). COB would be and has been the first to tell us so. No doubt he would say he is the only one who can correctly apply the Ethics materials and identify SPs, too.
It all just proves, according to his PR, and possibly he really believes it, that LRH screwed it all up.
Dear Coroner: Nice analogy.
Thank you Scientologist X.
Magnificent write up.
Scientologist X asks ::
WHO is creating conditions in Int that are so unstable that anyone could
just be declared at the drop of a hat in direct violation of HCO PLs
regarding ethics gradients?
WHO IS CREATING INSTABILITY?
Who is creating ridges?
Who altered the purpose of international events?
WHO implemented a pattern and a policy of coercion in
WHO IS DECLARING AS SUPPRESSIVE SOME OF THE MOST STABLE TERMINALS IN INT?
WHO is creating conditions in Int that are so unstable that anyone could
just be declared at the drop of a hat in direct violation of HCO PLs
regarding ethics gradients?
Since time immemorial when things go wrong in an military organization, the question asked is
“Who is the Commanding Officer ?”
In a corporation gone awry it is
“Who is the CEO ?”
In the world of Scientology the designated name is “COB” Chairman of the Board.
The Commanding Officer is completely responsible for everything that happens on his or her watch.
“Captain Bob” – *WE* (at least most of us, as far as I can tell) don’t give a flying fuck who replaces Darth Midget over there in the Church of Black Scientology. It’s none of our concern.
Michael A. Hobson
Luis, I am grateful to see your response here, especially since you know this young (wo)man.
Scn X, I roundly applaud your courage and honesty, knowing that your family, friends and eternity are at stake.
If you have not yet read Marty’s book, it is a MUST READ. If you are unable to order it for fear your credit card will be tracked I will happily get you a copy, either paper or ebook. Just reply or let Marty know and we’ll make it happen.
If you need a safe place to stay away from the goons, just say the word. I have no idea where you are, but it really doesn’t matter. I have a lovely peaceful ranch in the Rocky Mountains that Google Maps hasn’t even caught up with. There is a global community here to help you.
You know what you need to do better than anyone inside or out. Let us know when you are ready.
Excellent post. I have a similar background to Scientologist X, although I am a little older. I can say that most of what he is complaining about was pretty evident to me in the early 90s so not all that much has changed, although it has ramped up quite a bit with the Ideal Org program and the now second iteration of the Basics (we also had one of these in 1991 as well as many of you recall).
One thing that is completely different and shocks me when I hear it is the coerced abortions for SO members. If that was going on in the early 90s it was very well covered up. I never would have believed it since it violated DMSMH and just about every other tenet of Scientology, and that at that time many SO couples were still firing off to Class V orgs.
Nobody needs to replace DM – the sea org needs to be SHUT DOWN- all sea org need to go home to their families, get “deprogramed” – destimulated, and live a real life of happiness outside of the mindf**k ! They have all been through ENOUGH – all in the name of “religion” & LRH”
Well, dammit, ol’ Pie Face, there ain’t no one worth a shit who could get you to break that lovely, F/Ning countenance of yours.
Instead of asking yourself what would “ron do” – how about asking yourself what would YOU do – if we all had been thinking a little more independently all these years we may not be in the situation we are in. Free Thinkers / Independent Thinkers – we need more of them people!!
The CO$ IS DEAD. DM didn’t do it. WE DID. By not adhering to our philosophy and seeing to it that we KSW. We have been reasonable!
We certainly don’t need to replace a fanatic like DM.
ScientologistX, you wrote right at the start:
“I don’t want to abandon my religion. I want to heal it.”
Your religion is within you. But the Son of Peace is no longer in that house – the CoS.
In Creation of Human Ability LRH quoted St. Luke.
I think that quote applies to you now.
10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
10:4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
10:6 And if the Son of Peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
10:8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10:10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be
ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Wipe the dust of that city against it, and come out to where you can actually practice your religion freely. You will find many others already doing so.
Will there be consequences? Most likely. Jesus is also quoted in Matthew 10, as saying:
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
This is also rendered in St Luke 10:51 as
51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three.
The “sword” is truth. You find out who your real friends are, even in your own family, by telling the truth. Some may turn against you or shun you. But you will have your integrity, and you will be out here for them when they are ready to come out too.
And you will not be alone.
Super sad that Bitter’s low toned (and bitter) comment has to start off one of the best posts I have read on this blog. Phenomenal write up. Many right questions and new angles.
From a lower org perspective, these are some things many will relate to and are written in a very intelligent and non-entheta way.
I meant “start off the replys to”.
typo: “quesions” should be “questions”
I find that listening to LRH lecturing gives me the best understanding. Yes,it’s good to have some books and know the basic terms, but hearing it straight from the horse’s mouth is the best as far as I’m concerned. Many of the books are like outlines of the main points. In the lectures, he explains what it all means.
Here is a collection of 1,056 LRH lectures from 1950 through 1960 available for free download. These cover Dianetics and a lot of Scientology as well.
They also include quite a few mp3s of LRH delivering Group Processing. Listening to some of these is a good way to get theflavor of what processing is all about, as well as actually getting some benefit from processing, in the privacy of your own home or office.
You’ll have to scroll through the files to find some that are labeled as group processing, but it’s not hard to do. I found half-a-dozen from 1954. That was a good year!
I am impressed and very glad to see your personal integrity coming forth…..especially knowing the amount of suppression you have on your lines. Good on ya bro!
“At the time I remember being impressed with COB, both with his enormous
presence and energy, and his short stature.”
is also hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am certain the Miscarriage is jacked out of his thong tonight reading this. Beware, he is likely to launch a witch hunt to expose the internal doubters he knows are multiplying like crazy.
If you need a place to chill out that is off the beaten path let Marty know. He can get a hold of me. May the force be with you!
“Growing up as a Scientologist was exhilarating and free! I was taught “to have the courage to know and say what you have observed.” Reading these words always thrilled me, made my heart race; I imagined myself on a snowy steed, slicing through insanity with my long blade of truth. I just never thought it would be like this.”
So true X. Most of my own life was spent in Scientology. I lived and breathed LRH, on and off staff, in or out of the SO. Ironically, I left Church Staff in 1980, just about the time that the little guy was beginning his stranglehold (first on LRH, and then with that pesky Source guy out of the way, his tech and philosophy).
For this reason, though I did various training and auditing stints after ’80, I never was directly inculcated into POB’s desecration of the one thing that your lovely last paragraph reminded me of; that thing that we all got into Scientology for: HOPE.
Hope is the thing that makes one’s heart race, the lure beyond the imagination and the thrill. Hope is the reason we are all here: to be free. And since I never was directly under the little guy’s grasp, I never really gave up hope. For I always had the fact of working directly with and for LRH. So I always tend to concentrate on the hope he brings, rather than the destruction of hope that POB attempts to wreak.
Notwithstanding, though, I am like you X, posting under a pseudonym. Hoping for the day when I do not; when circumstances can change that will permit me to be freer than I currently am on this line.
Along this line, beyond the acknowledgement to X for this great piece, this post is for the few-who-would-be-many, you courageous souls who post under their own name without need for nom de plume (pseudonyms).
What X’s entreaty and pithy questions actually point out, as a general fact, is that there are probably literally thousands of potential independents; fence sitters all, who could (and probably should) be posting here right now!
In this light, I believe it would behoove those here (Marty et al) to actually encourage those “on the fence” to post and post here voluminously – stating their many and varied and exact stresses and/or conundrums as to exactly how and why they are on the fence; what they are doing in the church; what they actually SEE that is wrong with POB’s mis-direction (or not); and what or where they could see this is all going etc. (Maybe this has been “encouraged” before, if so, it wouldn’t hurt to TR3.)
Rather than evaluate/invalidate, bait/badger, alloy affinity or ARCX or get into potential games conditions with “future” independents, wouldn’t it be more fitting and proper to encourage them to post? Actually get them to get into the habit of getting off their BPC and such with what they are going through in the church. Certainly it would be a better outlet than they have now!
I know that I watched, looked and listened to this and many other internet sites for quite a long time before finally even posting anonymously. Who knows, it might help people become freer, sooner?! (Perhaps even me?!:)
The Emperor’s New Clothes
by Hans Christian Andersen
first published around 1837
A vain Emperor cares very much how others view him and takes much time admiring himself and his image. He has already built many palaces for himself, and has many fine things, coaches and the like, jewels and things, and many servants to care for his every need and whim. But one day, thinking further of the greatness he sees for himself, he puts out a call for the most expensive and elaborate outfit of the finest fabric in the universe.
Two tailors who know how to speak the right words in his ear about his great wonderfulness, get the job. They have told him that this special fabric will not be visible to anyone of lesser ability or intelligence, but it will be visible to him, of course, and any others who are truly worthy and great persons. All this news of the special suit is relayed with fanfare throughout the empire, and a special event is arranged with mandatory attendance for all.
The day of the event of the unveiling of the suit finally arrives and the Emperor, having been “dressed” by the tailors, walks in great pomp and majesty before his ministers, their aides, and his many dutiful subjects, loud music building to a crescendo as he takes the special steps to the podium. The onlookers cheer and cry out in abject adoration, bowing low, many with tears in their eyes.
Except for the small child, too young and pure to have been tainted by lies and falsehoods, who sees, recognizes, and states the truth – the Emperor has no clothes.
At that point in the story, the spell of lies is broken, and one after another, the people began to loose their tongues and speak the truth as well. And the emperor dies and is forgotten and truth and honest reign in his place.
I feel your pain Karen.
You have my postulate and hope that it will all turn out as best as it can.
It is truly sick what the cult has done.
May the dark one burn in hell.
I agree Ronnie. Grant him some beingness. Scientologist X is being very empirical — going by his own observations, and he is upfront about what he doesn’t know and what he has not observed. He has no direct sense of DM and says so. I respect him for sticking to what is true for him. He’s at the “itsa” stage where he’s spotted outpoints galore and those “itsas” have led to the “who and why?” questions. He’s pretty much nailed the what in saying what he has experienced that is simply wrong.
Getting exterior from any human culture one has been immersed in is a challenge to say the least. Getting exterior from Scn Inc is especially daunting. More power to you, Scientologist X — you are demonstrating high levels of intelligence (the ability to observe, even obnose) along with high levels of integrity.
Personally, for me, the “who” in this mystery is the “one” who “fixed” all of LRH’s books for him…for us…wasn’t that so nice of him.
BIG RED WAVING FLAG there for me anyway. I was there at the announcement of the basics and was appalled that people were actually clapping. I walked out and not quietly I might add.
The most compelling part of this post (and all the parts had impact) was the part on Luis Garcia. The point cannot be more effectively made than it was made here.
“…Because if there is any form of conditioning, psychologically, inwardly, truth cannot be found. Truth is a pathless land, and it must come to one when there is total freedom from conditioning.”
Krishnamurti, Truth the Path.
LTC, this is an interesting observation you made there. I personally do not believe that we have the whole story. I remember some robots in human form. And it’s interesting that LRH never looked at this world with MEST eyes alone. He could see behind the MEST. There is something here and that needs to be looked into.
Would you mind telling us a bit about your education, if that would not compromise your anonymity? You write very clearly. Based on what I’ve heard, I’m surprised you are so literate. Maybe I misinterpreted what I heard, or got it wrong – I’d like to get it right.
“Seems weird that we base our entire system of beliefs on free and open communication but there are iron curtains over entire subject matters.”
I realize that in a well-written piece you can’t cover all bases (unless you’re Cicero or someone of that caliber), but here are a couple of links for the record.
Something like 98% of the original St. Hill staff have been declared suppressive, and all LRH personally trained Class XII’s are either dead or declared, as are the overhwelming majority of all Class XII’s (there were 54, I think).
(Disclaimer: if the truth hurts, that’s not my fault.)
Sorry if I have gone verbally ballistic, but this kind of reminds me of talking to a Russian who grew up under communism who, on seeing video documentary of Pearl Harbor and the D-Day invasion at Normandy stood up screaming, “What is this!?! What is this!!? Did this really happen?!! Did this really happen!!? Is this true!?! Is this true!?!” It shocked me to understand that many well-educated Russians DO NOT KNOW that the Japanese nearly wiped out the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, and that the U.S. led invasion at Normandy was an all-out do-or-die gamble with enormous amounts of planning and enormous amounts of personnel and equipment at stake. I am sure there are still many Russians who believe the USA simply sat on its butt and let the Russian Army take the brunt of the war on their shoulders, then lazily marched into West Berlin to claim a victory that was not theirs.
Karen, I hear you and I am still furious at how this went.
I think Alexander’s only “mistake” was to choose two big beings as his parents. Two beings who fought within the S.O. for years and years for spiritual freedom and who finally faced the utter suppression and savageness of that Soulless Alien Robot, Miscavige disconnecting them from their child.
That’s the only “mistake” I see here. The pseudo 3D smashing the 2D and Alexander being exiled in a world without true love and true care. The 2D is there for a reason and I am experiencing it now as there is not much of a 3D around me, a group like I had in the S.O. So you fall back on 2D to keep you afloat. It’s only natural. Alexander couldn’t have even that and this drives me nuts.
But when the 3D becomes suppressive, a pseudo 3rd dynamic that is, then it’s also useless or even detrimental to all other dynamics. This is what we are experiencing now and Alexander and you experienced it in the worst of terms and conditions because you and Heber were bigger than the Soulless Alien Robot could have around.
Brian, long time no see. ScnX, did a wonderful thing here. We need the Scn young adults to wake up and do something. Here is one. And I think I know this person. Running into COB sound awfully familiar. I was told that story before. 🙂
Stupendous communication. Love your style, X. Respect your integrity. Share your wants.
Thank you for allowing me to share the redacted version. The full one must be a gem.
Dear Scientologist X,
I have this sneaky feeling that it isn’t answers you seek but rather seek to make others ask the questions and find out for themselves factors which you feel they should be aware of because of your love for the philosophy of Scientology and those who simply wish to practice it for the betterment of all.
I may be wrong, but it is just a sneaky feeling of mine 🙂
As many commentators here are very quick at the draw to give you an answer, do I see an auditor’s approach in your communication to make people look and find their own answers without evaluating or doing exactly that which you object to – telling you what the answer should be and what you should think about it.
That’s what I see and it is a very intelligent and brilliant approach for someone who is in that position which you recently have found yourself in.
If you want to communicate feel free to write me at email@example.com
MaBu, Re-read what I included in between the brackets!
I hope you duplicate – our advice is essentially the same?
Don’t get me wrong, I have tremendous respect for you all, but it is starting to waver. Can’t you all collectively just go to the FBI, or collectively file a lawsuit and get on with taking DM down? Surely a high-profile lawyer would take the case pro bono considering it would be the highest profile case in modern history. This year-after-year-after-year blog posting etc is not panning out in terms of serious results. Is there lots more awareness? Sure. Have any problems been fixed? Zero. Is DM ousted? No. It’s like observing 10,000 people standing around a circle witnessing one person carry out high crimes yet all the onlookers are doing is blogging about it. You folks have so much power collectively, but I predict that in 2 years the same stuff will be going on. I am sorry, but you folks are responsible for allowing all this to continue, yet with some serious COLLECTIVE LEGAL effort results could possibly come quickly. Why you all won’t collectively and legally nail DM is starting to become a church cult phenomenon in of itself.
First thing I learned at the gymnasium was the meaning of mensa.
The first lesson I learned in Scientology was to look up the meaning of words so communication can take place.
After Dianetics would come Science of Survival, if you want to read in chronological sequence. I first read this book in 1976. While reading it, I had my first personal experience with exteriorization. At that point, I concluded that LRH proved that I was a spiritual being and not just a body. No one had ever proven that to me before. I was totally amazed.
This book might be in your nearest library or for sale cheap on ebay.
Also, you can click on “networking”, near the top of this page to locate a Dianetic auditor, if that is your wish.
Respectfully, the only “consequence” of signifance of failing to ‘call a spade a spade’ is the destruction of Scientology as “Scientologist X” knows, and apparently, loves it.
While we can, and should, emphathize with the emotional turmoil of people like ‘Scientologist X”, the fact to be ‘obnosed’ is that for every moment “Scientologist X” (and others like him) continues to support the “Church of Scientology” through his continued active participation, “Scientologist X” assists in driving Scientology further and further into the mud and out of the reach of those who need it most.
I honestly believe that if ever Scientologist who ever had any considerations like those of Scientologist X set forth above did nothing other than simply stated them to his fellows, the “Church” of Scientology would crumble, and Miscavige would join Adolf Hitler in just ignominy.
And, then, all that would be left to do would be to audit those who wanted it.
Indulgences, indeed! I did a four year (count them, four, years) A-E ethics cycle which consisted, on the one hand, telling me that one could not “buy” one’s way out of Ethics, yet, which on the other hand consisted, mainly, of requiring me to “donate” over $10,000.00 to various Orgs.
I wonder if the “Church” got the idea of actually selling indulgences from my cycle!!!!!!!
I agree with Dan. I was born into the Catholic Church. For many years, this group provided almost all input. My loving parents took me to church, and spent thousands of dollars on sunday school and private school. Being young, I thought this was all there was. Other ideas were wrong, and you could spend eternity in hell if you did not believe. Sound familiar? However, there was no church imposed punishment for not going to church, or reading “bad” books, or any of the shit you and others have to put up with. Once I saw that the church put itself before the wellfare of children, I left a group of people, not MY God. To me, no man, no church, can kill love or truth. Men will try, and in some cases, succede, but only if their victims head to the slaughter out of fear of the unknown. You have asked why. There is no logical response. What is important is that you have now seen reality. I dont know why the church covered for child abusing priests. Does it matter? Hearing about how the kids you know have been treated breaks my heart. What kind of church does that? The kind that you support? Freedom is hard, and worth it. Keep thinking.
Wow, X, this was just a phenomenal post. As a WOG…reading this and all (or most) of the responses…it seems you are heading back into the arms of what Scientology was supposed to be. What a great group of people supporting independent thought. Good luck to you all. Once the corporate church is gone, it appears Scientology will live on with focus on the good things it can provide.
im sorry to be the one to tell you that our church,has been stolen from us.
david miscaviage is the new author.the buck stops with him,his the authority,his the BOSS.you are among frends,we are the frends of L.R.HUBBARD..L.R.H IS YOUR FREND,the rest is up to you, you deside
ALL THE BEST TO YOU,A.R.C,ERIC
Pancho – sweet.
I would recommend that you actually try it out rather than looking for more to read. Reading is good, but applying what you’ve read is better.
Team up with someone and have at it.
When you’ve had some experience in what Dianetics can do for you, you’ll have a better understanding of what you decide to read afterwards.
Great post. Articulates so much of what is wrong.
As to who is responsible. It is not just Miscavige. It is every person who supports the organization even after the massive outpoints have been recognized and even after the right questions have been posed to the right people and the only answer is “how dare you raise that question?!!!” The ones who remain part of the organization after all that bear responsibility for the evil of the organization as it exists.
It is traumatic to face the loss of what has been the foundation of your life. But Scientology is supposed to make you capable of defending your own perceptions, your own truth. If it intimidates you to the point that you deny all of your own experience what good is it. It is just another VERY EXPENSIVE scam.
Friend, you’re obviously late to this party. What you suggest has been tried over and over and over. The powers that be are not interested in doing their duty in regards to Miscavige and his cult.
You mean ‘mens’. Mensa = table.
Well, here’s the real grind. From the viewpoint of someone already in the church they have to think that either Flag has auditors and sec checkers who couldn’t find a crime on a Senator or/and the tech they are delivering is incapable of making a real OT.
Here are OT 7’s and OT 8’s who walk away from C of S by the droves after finishing 7 or 8 and turn around and say the C of S is bullshit. Are they all undetected SPs all along or did the tech make them this way? These have to be the questions church members are asking themselves these days with so many defections.
We know the answer: They all strove to be free and the OT sections made them free and they spotted the trap called Church of Scientology and got out of it.
I have serious doubts whether ‘sword’ in St Luke here means ‘truth’.
Unfortenately I cannot find my references on this, so I cannot refer you to it right now. Sorry.
When I find them, I’ll be back to you.
Here again. I found one reference for the time being. I quote:
“The statement that Jesus, the ‘Prince of Peace’, comes with a sword (St Matth. 10:34) has always been a point of contradiction that has disturbed ethicists for centuries. Indeed, the sword bit has led to an atrocious amount of human suffering, as wild-eyed Christian fanatics descended upon the world, slaughtering millions under the banner of the ‘Prince of Peace’.
This contradiction also can only be explained within the mythos. When the sun is being swallowed by the darkness, he must fight with the sword until he arrives the next day to bring peace.”
(Many tenets of christianity (and other religions) go back to the first sun worshippers. It goes to far to explain all that here. E.g. The Disciples are the 12 Signs of the Zodiac.)
Source:The Christ Conspiracy – The greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S.,
page 197-198, 1999.
Margaret, Valkov, dan, Ulf – many, many thanks for your help.
Ive ordered a copy of Science of Survival, and Im going to go back through Dianetics for practical exercises.
Thankyou for the mediafire link, the lists, pointing out the networking option (how have I missed that??), and your friendliness.
Im aware I annoyed a few people on the last blog post by asking some questions about DM. It wasnt done with hostility, but rather intrigue. However, asking a group of people who’ve had their lives destroyed by DM “what do you think he did well?” is going to touch a few nerves!
Again, thankyou for your input
Can I ask you a small favour? It’s to not use that word “wog”…
I know what you mean when you use it (saying you’re a non-Scientologist), and I know Ron was making a joke in public when he first used it, but it almost instantly became an insult that some high-and-mighty Scientologists used to set themselves apart.
I’ve always detested that word – who else made the society we live in if not those same “wogs”?
Or maybe I just have a huge button on it 🙂 Either way, I’d still like to see the term fade away into disuse.
Carcha, this is so faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from the truth. When I grew up in Eastern Europe (still under Soviet Union) it was very well known and a part of the history that Americans were our good allies during WW2. We had movies and everything. I believe this positioning of Americans as friends (at least in the years of Reformation before USSR collapsed) is what has aided the collapse of the USSR in the first place. People were aspiring toward the concepts of Freedom and “American Dream” and many no longer wanted to support the Soviet structure that isolated its citizens from the rest of the world.
I think Captain Bob just likes to ramble in some of his posts. I like the Capt. but some of his posts do seem sort of non sequitor.
Fizzle whizzle bum crum.
Theo, this is exactly what I’ve been trying to say all alone. There is just something there that has not yet been exposed so the problem hasn’t been going away. I was trying to “pierce” into it myself, but I got so overwhelmed that I had to back away and try to regroup. I also felt like I knew something myself, but I haven’t been able to dig into that knowingness. Some of the beings I ran into Scientology I could sense a strange sense of connection like whole track wise, like “I know these beings…”, but again since I basically have not had a chance to have any auditing, I could never explore that sense of knowingness in more detail. But everything in Scientology has been very, very real to me even though I have not done much, practically anything at all which I could list in a column of impressive accomplishments.
Hear, hear, Gypsy. The paramilitary unit known as the Sea Org needs to go. It has followed right down the path of every other military org that ever seized control of a group, a country, or any third dynamic. It outlived its usefulness a long, long time ago, and has become little more than an internal mafia. I think if LRH were alive and in charge today, he would have disbanded it by now.
Karen you’re so strong you’ll keep going until all the truth about this horrible event is revealed ant those responsible exposed. You got a lot of strong people behind you. I’ve said this lots of times, but just a reminder……………..We’re right here when you need us. You know who we are.
If giving your life for the cause is considered the ultimate sacrifice, then the Soviets gave at least 40X more than the Americans.
So true Ronnie. TPTB are interested in $$$$$$$$$$$$ and the CO$ (der Midget) knows how to flow it and to whom to keep the party contained. (This does require a continuous flow from the Kool-Aide Crowd but that is diminishing ……………………..thanks to this blog and those that contribute to it)
Tree House…………An effective strategy in the face of a force vs. force universe is to opt out. That is what this blog is about IMHO, not in trying to fight with a dead and dying cult but rather delivering a product worth having which translates into the opportunity for a free, well and happy life.
Martin–Your response to “bitter” is so right on. I, too, loved the honest, courageous communication made by Scientologist X and was dismayed (yes, my F/N completely stopped!) to read the horrendous response from Bitter Defrocked Apostate, especially as a first response.
It is a shame to think there are such cold-hearted people joining the INDIE group–especially when its formation was based upon an escape from exactly that kind of invalidation.
Scientology X has put in his/her own code of honor despite enormous pressure and every reason to cave. I wish him/her the best and hope that any residue he/she might feel from the upsetting response made by “Bitter” (such an appropriate name!) is countered by all of the love and validation received by the many other responses.
But you were so faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from the Russian who stood up and yelled that, too. I’m assuming you were explaining that Poland or Hungary or Germany or Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, or other are not Russia. I would hope you were not trying to tell me what I did or didn’t see and hear, regardless of the hard life you may have had. Maybe you can tell me the point I was making with the example above?
While the post was very thorough and well-written, it seemed that it steered clear of addressing the “elephant in the room.”
I get that that was the point, addressing the outpoints from a street-level perspective. Ultimately, it comes down to this; even if DM was the greatest guy who had never ordered the alteratation of any tech or admin, as leader of the Church, he would STILL have to own the current state of affairs. After all, everyone else has been removed from post for their “incompetence,” so you can’t blame them. That was the value of this report; it leads inescapably to the “who.”
A little off topic but very appropo:
A few days ago Kay Rowe ex IAS regg contacted our friends Lynne and Bert and said that she was out of the Sea Org and was looking at leaving the “church” and wanted to talk to us.
We took a two hour drive and met with her and talked for about 2-3 hours.
She seemed like she could see what was going on. She had said that she sent a list of questions up lines such as “Why did Debbie Cook get $50,000 and others leaving only got $500?” and “ Why do ex Sea Org have to sign a non disclosure bond?” plus about 10 more questions that were equally or more damning. She said that she had sent these to “church” officials to get answers.
I told her that alone would most likely get her declared.
She said that she didn’t care. We all peppered her with data and she was seemingly VGI’s.
Over the next few days she appeared to roller coaster and thought that maybe she should just read LRH the rest of her life because she wasn’t sure about the Indie movement and she was very strong on REFORMING the “church” and didn’t seem to get the support on that issue that she wanted.
She emailed me this for example:
Thanks for the awesome duplication. We are on the same page. I am in for sure and will do anything in my power to bring about the ousting and preservation of the tech.
Will talk later.
Next thing I here she is saying that she is about to come out and send a big letter to the multitudes in about a week.
Now,… she has posted on her phony face book account as Cara Voca that she has decided to stay in the cult and try to reform from within. And is essentially disconnecting from the Indie’s as they have committed an SP act by going to the press.
I told her that I thought her own overts were getting in the way of her seeing the real situation. She had tons of justifications for this decision as she called me to tell me that she “respected” me.
But since has decided to be part of the enemy I felt it only fair that I tell others of what went down. She herself says that she “outed” herself to the cult and that “she didn’t get into trouble for it”. So the cult knows that she is looking and therefore I feel no hesitation to report here to my friends what happened with Kay Rowe.
Here is what she wrote as Cara Voca:
Some of you know my true identity, some don’t. Whether you do or don’t at this point is irrelevant. I confess that I erred in posting my opinions prematurely. That said, I want to let all of you know that I am now satisfied that I have extensively looked and in doing so found out for myself and decided for myself. My decision is to stay with the Church and not be connected in any way to any Independents or those not in good standing. No need to answer this post as I will not have any further comm cycles. This also means that anything I posted prior to this is hereby retracted. No explanation is necessary so one will not be forthcoming. However, I will say that I did report myself, including my two alias names, for getting involved in researching, etc. and did not get in trouble for it. So, I was free after all as a member of the Church contrary to your belief.
I have always liked Kay and still basically do.
But I feel that her actions have verified that she is either a plant trying to bring some of the sheep back to the fold or she is extremely PTS or both.
Have a good day everyone!!
Keebler’s Tree House,
You will find some answers in this article:
truth is free,
Hi and welcome!
“Tons of people are out and not saying anything YET! Myself included.” – Thanks for sharing that here! You are saying already something. 😉
Many of us started like you.
Here is the full list of questions that she said she sent to the “church” executives:
THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME…
1. What is the point of signing a non-disclosure agreement which strictly speaking waives ones right to speak freely? How is that even legal?
2. Why were Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgartner each given $50,000 and Alexander Jentzsch $3500 when they left the Sea Org when the routine amount is $500?
3. What is the status of Exec Strata, i.e. where is ED INT and the Exec Ints that are a crucial element in the Organization structure that LRH designed himself?
4. How come Mr. David Miscavige’s own brother and father left the Sea Org?
5. Why has Heber Jenztsch, the President CSI, who was known and loved by many, become virtually invisible for the past 8 years?
6. How come Flag and CC Int are delivering a pilot on the Grades, which as far as I know has been going on for years, yet these have not as yet been released to all Orgs, Missions and the Field?
7. Why were the Orgs not simply renovated at first to make them Ideal instead of fund-raising the Scientology public for literally millions of dollars?
8. Why was the IAS established instead of simply re-establishing the HASI and informing members that they are free to make additional donations on their determinism?
9. Why are the fees charged for services (that are “tax-deductible donations”) prohibitive to the majority of the population, yet we are supposed to be clearing a planet and LRH was clearly against driving public away with threatened high prices?
10. Why are the members of the Church and IAS not allowed access to the financial data on both since it is their Church and their IAS? And in particular with the IAS, as members, why are they not afforded the right to choose how the funds are spent?
11. Why are the IAS funds not refundable?
12. What is the point of SP and PTS declares and “disconnect or else”? Not even the Catholic Church does this when they ex-communicate a member. Besides, it is a gross violation of Human Rights?
12. Why the harassment of those who left? What is the point? Not only that but it creates horrendously
bad PR and creates a horrible image for the Church and Scientology.
13. Why the false promotion of “millions of members” when it can be proven beyond any reasonable doubt
that it is more in the thousands? Note: I have been to other Churches and they have sometimes as many as 10 Sunday Services per day with close to 1,000 attending each one. That’s 10,000 in one day for one parish! Whereas we’re lucky to have 6,000 show at an International Event in PAC.
14. Why is the massive increase of ARC breaks in the field handled in such a way as to create more ARC
breaks with unjust SP declares and disconnections, instead of addressing the upsets directly with an
excellent comm. cycle and proper justice?
15. How can literally thousands of veteran, trained Scientologists who are grilled on KSW, ethics, etc. simply stand by and take little to know effective actions to pull the strings on the out-points and demand totally standard ethics, tech and admin? What about the “9 foot high board fence? There’s a very high casualty rate going on here folks, much more than 20%, let alone 2 1/2 %!
16. What would happen if those who have been handled unjustly were to pull together and launch a class action suit? Realistically would they win the case?
The above are just for starters and therein the reason for my change of stance and why I will very shortly be going public. I will surely come up with more and all you readers are free to add your own questions.
Cara Voca is Kay Rowe.
She said that she reported all this to the cult and that she “didn’t get into trouble”? REALLY!!! I smell a rat!!
This also goes to show some people who scoff at the idea of the cult sending out plants to try to splinter off support of the Indie movement.
Be constantly alert and willing to fight back.
I thought I’d take a stab at answering these questions. I could certainly be wrong but this was my take on it and it is why I no longer support the Church of Scientology as administered by David Miscavige.
Who is creating instability with blanket issues of “not clear?”
The current Case Supervisors in the Church of Scientology who are following current technical bulletins and directives regarding the state of Clear. Those bulletins are either condoned or approved as being “pure” technology by the RTC. The COB of RTC is David Miscavige.
Who is stripping orgs of the right to deliver?
This is an incorrect question. The real question is why are there not enough auditors and case supervisors in Class 4 orgs and why are they seen to be incompetent when they do exist?
This traces back to circa early 1980s when David Miscavige and his team of executives decided to strip the Mission networks of their rights and autonomy. The excuse given was that the Missions were “withholding” public from the orgs. This action resulted in a mass exodus and sweeping declares of hundreds, perhaps even thousands of active auditors, C/Ses, staff and public from the Mission network.
This destroyed the recruiting and prospecting base of the Class 4 and up orgs.
However, the truth is that even before that Flag, AO and ASHO were all guilty of third partying their own Class 4 orgs. They routinely put on exciting and glamorous events in which public Scientologists were assured that if they wanted quality service they should come to an upper org. This was a third party action done so they could get the public onto their own service lines. It bypassed the orgs.
Who is declaring as suppressive some of the most stable terminals in Int?
OSA and Ethics staff members who are following current policies and directives including directives to disconnection from individuals and groups who have been declared suppressive. Those policies, directives and orders are either condoned or approved as being “standard admin” by the RTC. The COB of RTC is David Miscavige.
Who is slitting the vocal chords of those who question?
All staff and public who trust their seniors to provide them with full and accurate information and a qual and ethics system that serves truth and justice.
Who is encouraging staff to sell indulgences?
All staff who comply with “command intention” to enforce orders on all Scientologists to immediately buy each new release of “corrected” materials and services, materials and services which have been altered from the original. The order comes from COB RTC, David Miscavige as a consequence of his declaring all prior materials as “out-tech.”
Who is devaluing the family unit?
This is the result of an Executive Directive from 1986 forbidding SO members to have children. I never saw the issue. I don’t know who wrote it.
Who is implementing mass disconnections?
Staff and public who think they are following current policy, bulletins, directives and orders, including ethics orders and directives. What they do not know is that MOST of the materials on this subject are no longer being applied by their justice system. This is because full application of the full body of work on these subjects would disclose that their seniors are not worthy of trust.
Hi Scientologist-x, I’m a “never was in” so I’m the least qualified to answer your questions so I won’t try. I will make one observation however: it seems you’re confusing your religion with the organisation known as The Church of Scientology, they’re not synonymous.
Regardless of the who’s and the why’s your observations of the organisation known as the Church of Scientology, colloquially referred to as Co$ or Church of Scientology inc, are screaming to you that it is causing many of its adherents a great deal of pain and grief, mentally, physically and financially.
I understand you want to heal your religion but it’s not the religion that needs healing it’s the organisation and you will not be able to do this because of its very nature.
I believe the Indies, which includes people I gather you admire(d), have it right. They have taken ownership of their religion from the organisation of the church of scientology and each individual is making it their own. This means they’re truly free of the dogma imposed by the church of scientology organisation.
I can appreciate that you, like many others in your position, fear being disconnected. This is unfortunately another clear sign that something is very wrong with the church of scientology organisation, that it declares people suppressive and mandates that adherents shouldn’t have anything to do with suppressive people. The reason for this is simple, to keep people like you inside the church of scientology and so supporting it; you cannot do otherwise while you’re in it because no matter how hard you try it will extract money from you if you want to progress in your religion and often times without actually allowing that progression. The Indies get to progress and no one is in a position to invalidate that.
You’re in a tough spot, I hope your family come through and you get out together but your and their best course of action is just that leave. A poor second is to go passive and so discontinue actively following your religion.
Just my 2 cents.
>> I honestly, and this is not exaggeration, wondered one time if an intake scanner at INT HCO had scanned my letter for keyword content, used an algorithm to make an assumption about what my question was, and composed a letter using auto-formatting it had been taught. It was *that* weirdly worded. It didn’t feel human.
I know, because .. I wrote the software.
INCOMM has auto-response filters in place on the CCB. All comm into the Church *is* scanned, computers are used to track details , all data. This system, designed by LRH (but usurped immediately by its enemy), *is* in use in the Church and has been used, in various forms, since the 80’s.
Its sort of an internal Facebook, if you will, of all comm/terminals/addresses, etc.
Some old-timers might remember the CLO Telex reports? Those have been computerized for decades.
INCOMM, as per LRH, was intended to prevent “Duke of Chug” style attacks on the Church -i.e. send in an Usurper to take over and thwart from within. Unfortunately, upon its construction, INCOMM fell into the hands of the very person it was intended to prevent from destroying Management Lines.
Alas, these stories are yet to properly be told, but the fact of the matter is, Scientologist X, the only way out is through, and if there is to be an exit, it is with statistics. Ask INCOMM for All Statistics. LRH wanted INCOMM built for all staff, after all, and it does actually have other automatic functions, if you know how to ask it ..
Here is a quotation from HCOPL 10 Sep 1983, PTSness AND DISCONNECTION:
“How a disconnection is done depends on the circumstances.
Example: The pc lives next door to, say, a psychiatric
clinic and feels PTS due to this environment. The remedy is
simple – the pc can move to another apartment in another
location. He need not write any sort of “disconnection
letter” to the psychiatric clinic. He simply changes his
environment – which is, in effect, a disconnection from the
Example: A pc is connected to a person or group that has
been declared suppressive by HCO in a published ethics order.
He should disconnect and, if he wants to inform the SP of
the fact, he may write a letter of disconnection. Such a
letter would be very straightforward. It would state the
fact of the disconnection and the reason for it. It would
not be misemotional or accusative, since this would only
serve to stir up further antagonism. The letter would be
inspected by the Ethics Officer before it was sent and
copies kept for the PTS person’s own ethics file and pc
No attempt would be made to establish communication with
the declared SP “to clear matters up” or to seek to reform
the SP. The SP’s reform is strictly in the hands of HCO.
The PTS simply disconnects.
Example: One discovers that an employee at his place of
business is an SP – he steals money, drives away customers,
wipes out other employees and will not correct no matter
what you do. The handling is very simple-the PTS fires him
and that’s the end of it right there!
To fail or refuse to disconnect from a suppressive person
not only denies the PTS case gain, it is also supportive of
the suppressive-in itself a Suppressive Act.
And it must be so labeled. (Ref: HCO PL 23 Dec. 65RA,
SUPPRESSIVE ACTS, SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND
As far as Katie Holmes handling, yes, it was superb. She totally handled any possibility of suppression by planning her exit/disconnection so that nothing could be done to stop her or destroy her life. Now, that would be applying danger, because one thing is sure when faced with suppression, one is in danger.
I’m with her. I have only a couple more people that can be used to damage my life by the the indecent misapplication of ethics and justice in the Church of Scientology under the Miscavige administration. My plans have been completely successful in moving everyone I love out of the path of destruction that could have been leveled at me and my friends and family. They can fire away at will — I am 80% beyond damage now, soon it will be 100%.
.. and, PS, I mean no “hidden data line”, but if there is to be communication with ‘insiders’ within the Church, we must adhere to a principal of honest communication. I truly believe that LRH himself had the computer series policies published in the volumes, as published, per stated date, for very good reasons. Alas, LRH’s intentions for Computerization have been Usurped.
BTW if you want a real eye opener, read Jim Logan`s analysis of disconnection policies and how it devolved into the craziness we are now witnessing:
You got it.
From the PDCs:
You know Scientology.. in a universe which knows Scientology, the
chances of anyone’s taking away anyone’s sanity become so remote as to be ridiculous, because there’s always the raw red rebel who will say,
“Those implants might be interesting, but are they useful really?”
Yes, yes, you have everybody convinced they don’t know who they are,
and that they’re somebody else, but uh.. and that’s interesting. But is it
right? And uh.. you.. you could have.. you could have – because a dichotomy of combat can exist – you could have a great and powerful and doubtlessly awesome and fearful forces facing us with all of these threats if we dared make anybody sane.
Yes, you could always have those forces, and they’d never be able to
make it stick. That’s very interesting; they would not be able to make it
stick, because they are on a track which in this universe is a self-ending
track, not a self-perpetuating track. People recognize that, and although you will see a tremendous tendency on the part of the slave to assume his chains and wear them, and wear more chains if possible, you always have a greater number who in the end will turn on the master.
The masters of the slaves die. They have always died in this universe
and they always will, and so may too a universe die.
But the point we are making is simply that force was never any weapon
with which to combat reason. And every time force has been applied to reason in this universe force has come the cropper, not reason.
Sooner or later the reason would go around and through because
there’s on.. force, you see, can’t go through sixteen-foot bastions and
barricades. You have this enormous citadel sitting on the high crown of an untouchable mount. And it is garrisoned and provisoned and watered to withstand the siege of centuries. And its garrison is well-trained and well- armed. Not a single shaft or a bolt or a lightning flash could go through that citadel.
But by the water carrier or some other means an idea can go
through the wall of any citadel. When you ask, “What is the strength of this garrison?” you always have to ask, “What is the loyalty of this garrison?”
That is the other factor, and force was never able to win against it. It
could win temporarily, oh, yes, but never completely. Now in a reaction
against force, people quite often will assume a no responsibility for the
whole universe. That’s going down scale from force. Want to point out to you that there’s an up scale from force. A high one, and that goes up toward the reasonable thing to do, and people, very often, who are trying to go up scale toward the reasonable thing to do will find themselves caught with specious reasoning and will find themselves dropping down toward the weak thing to do.
Reason which is afraid of force, and reason which exists to keep
force from hurting one is not reason. That, too, is a form of slavery. But
reason which exists to go up from the level of force must first be able to
confront force. Only then can such reason take responsibility for those
things which reason alone can produce.
And so you find a society, just before it goes out, taking its last
effort to escape force by being reasonable, but that reasonability consists normally of an assumption of slavery of one form or another – not an assumption of freedom. They will lay upon themselves various
restrictions and – out of fear.
Now that man who is able to take responsibility for force, yet who
does not employ force, is much more terrible than man who can apply force alone. And the man who applies force alone is, of course, much more terrible to a lower scale on the chart than those who can only cluster together in terror and hope that the mass of their numbers will restrain the hand of force.
You want to remember then you’re looking at harmonics, when you’re
looking at this on a tone scale. You’ll find groups which cohese solely
because they are terrified of force which may be applied to thee. And in that cohesion they simply seek protection of the Individual by the group.
Graviora, do we know each other?
I do not know your age. I assume that you are no loger a child. My parents did not care much for us. They went through WW2 the hard way. My father had been drunk all day. My mother had seen too much horrors and had been overwhelmed by that and did just feed us through. But that is no excuse for anything. My life had no good start. But I am not a slave. Think for yourself. Observe for yourself. Decide for yourself. And act accordingly.
tessa, what do you think “sword” stands for?
Thanks for the reference, but I find that unnecessarily complex. I interpret the sayings of Jesus in everyday practical terms. I think they were intended that way.
Jesus is quoted as referring to himself as “The way, the truth, and the life”. There has always been a tendency in Christianity to promote telling the truth. Satan is referred to as the “father of lies”, for example.
Have you ever considered how difficult it is, in life, to simply tell the truth?
When a person tells the truth, some others are likely to turn against him.
Truth is a sword that separates, at least when at first one stands up and speaks it. Here, 2,000 years later, people are still arguing about religion.
I believe enough has been said to identify you . Consult others who may know your situation better who you can trust. . May be wise to visit friends. Liked your observations.
X, let me give you the WHO: DAVID MISCAVIGE! No Mysteries, no Questions, no Doubts! Well done so far; find your way out!!! It is so much more fun…
Dear Mr. Rinder – thank you so much for your very kind words. They means a great deal to me after the sort of day I’ve had today (had a bit of a reshuffle at work – I now have Satan’s distinctly less-nice sister for my line manager 😮 !), especially coming from a man of your integrity and good sense. Bless you. 🙂 xx
APPLAUSE! So true Karen! Well said! Thank you!
People with out ethics withholds can’t see. As an IAS reg, she has plenty of them. How can she admit that she harmed all the people she drove into debt, possibly bankruptcy, kept off the Bridge, etc., with the IAS’ suppressive use of the “dangerous environment” to frighten people into giving up all their money? That is what she has to confront to be able to break free. And she couldn’t do it.
Tony, you and I know that any one of those questions Kay Rowe said she emailed to the IJC as an attachment would have resulted in a declare, though it might not have been made known to the person being declared. However, since kay has been sheltered from technical progress by being in the isolation of the sea org so long, she was unaware that many organizations, especially Scientology, will no longer open attachments due to virus potential. So, I will give her the possibility that they didn’t even see her list of questions. Until you helped her out here, that is. Oops, maybe she’s still in for a treat! LOL
I am just curious. Did I miss something? What gave you the idea that Scientologist X is a male?
I think some people are getting impatient because they are putting too much importance in one part (the Indie group) of the 3rd D, in detriment of the other dinamics. However, in the long term, this strategy backfires.
By the way, your comments are very insightful (at Isene & here).
This is exactly what I thought too when I read that. Ask yourself first what would YOU do! Listen to yourself!
Lmao at the ot viii comment. Cause over life. No shit. Was in the lobby of a hotel and couldn’t stop laughing. Awesome point.
You took an example with one Russian who you knew and stretched it out to “…many well-educated Russians…” and then “I am sure there are still many Russians who believe the USA simply sat on its butt and let the Russian Army take the brunt of the war on their shoulders…” It may be your opinion, but I’m telling you it’s totally false. There was a lot of cultural awareness about Americans being a valuable ally in WW2. I have never even heard of anyone speak badly of Americans when I grew as much as I have heard it in the U.S. this is long time after the Soviet Union had collapsed. Hell, even the SO’s still quoted me out of Psychopolitics book and contemplated on “communists” taking over the world. Just come up to present time. It’s 2012 already. With the massive political changes that have been taking place here in the US (and in Europe), soon Russia may be looked at as a sample of freedom and democracy. Look at, even Scientology has been doing better there as well and has long had many independent Scientology groups.
She said that she reported all this to the cult and that she “didn’t get into trouble”? REALLY!!! I smell a rat!!
The rat poop with this one stinks to high heaven. There is no way that she sent those questions uplines without getting declared. Complete horse hockey.
Iamvalkov: thanks for your reaction.
There is an interesting entry on Wikipedia: ‘But to bring a sword’.
Some scholars think it stands for conflict, others for division (not so dissimilar in fact). Quite a debat!
In the context of this blog: the disconnection created between family members because of Scientology, could be called ‘the sword of Scientology’. Who is not with me, is against me. That is what Miscavige probably thinks.
In Jesus’ time, with different competing sects (Zealots, Essens, etc.) about, it was necessary to make a sharp division between the righteous ones and the false ones. A sword divides, separates. And the righteous one holds the sword of course!
The word ‘sword’ itself is but a symbol, that in the course of thousands of years got different meanings, depending on the context.
The ancients thought that the sun was the saviour of the world and when it was night the sun had to fight her way back at sunrise; hence the symbol ‘sword’. The difference day – night might be associated with right – wrong, one side – another side. I think that this dichotomy goes in the end back to the oldest of ‘day – night’.
I do not yet see the context in which LRH used this particular quote.
I hope this was not too boring …
Thanks Tony, she called me and Betsy 5 different times over a day period. I don’t think she is a plant, but very scared and PTS.
Worsel, you wrote, “when Ron found it didn’t exists”. What is the “it”?
I want to listen to this lecture. Where do I find it? Do you have the reel number? I have these …
5904c14 SHPAC-09 OVERT ACT-MOTIVATOR SEQUENCE
5901c04 05 – Overt Act-Motivator Sequence(#5901c04B)
Oh my…. Karen. You are so incredibly strong given all that you have been through. Also, – ‘ for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” – unfortunately, too many of us can relate to that.
It could be one or the other. Time will tell.
Yea right she didn’t get in trouble, what a lie, you can do all that and not get in trouble, more likely she was sent to enturbulate the Indies. I talked to her and she said that she is just going to do the Golden age of Knowledge and not do any services and that it doesn’t matter to her that much of LRHs words were left out of the books, at least she is getting some LRH (suppressive reasonableness). She also said DM has done a lot of good such as the Basics, LMAO, I told her the DM totally threw LRH under the bus with that one. She said she would never get auditing in the Indie field but would only get it in the Church, I told her I was exactly the opposite I had more faith in getting standard tech in the field that in the squirrel CofM and their quickie grades. She said that she is not convinced that DM Is an SP… the girl is in lala land and can’t see . I told her that she needs to do a lot more reading and getting her false data sorted out. She said she only started looking after Wendy Honnor came out a month ago. Now with all this she managed to put together some sort of a blog in that short period of time and come to some inane conclusions that the DM could be removed and an amnesty and declare concellations and the Church can reunite. She definitley was getting help from OSA. I didn’t accept her as a friend on facebook simply because she was operating under a false name, no pics nothing, very 1.1.
I agree completely. Good luck to you 2cents.
I have a button on that word, too. I’ve heard way too many Scientologists, especially staff, ridicule using the phrase “wog world” (especially trying to recruit you), as if anybody not a Scientologist is a lower rung humanoid, and that working in the “wog world” is contra survival. (We know now that working for the “church” is what is actually contra survival.)
/Start of Sarcasm
Apparently, our brave and brilliant Founding Fathers of the Declaration of Independence were just “wogs’, way below America’s most brilliant, “independent” and “freedom loving” corporate Scientology.
/End of Sarcasm
OK. BPC blown. 🙂
I have a general question you or Marty or Mike can answer: how will Indie Scientology work? Will it be free of the Sea Org, fair game, huge donations stuff? Will members be free to debate the merits of LRH’s ideas? Will the public be free to choose what they do and do not want to partake in? Will the emeter be used? Will the secrecy end?
“it” is the Overt-Motivator-Sequence.
In 1962 Ron found out that the Overt-Motivator-Theory cannot possibly be correct and he looked into it and analyzed what it really is. In this lecture 6204c03 SHSBC-131, “The Overt Motivator Sequence” , he briefs the St. Hill Special Briefing Course students on this new understanding. The earlier lectures give a different picture.
It is one of the lectures of Level II. It is also on the St. Hill Special Briefing Course.
You’ll love it.
If you have difficulties finding it, write again.
p.s.: I had a twist in the date: It should read 3. April 62, not 4. March.
p.p.s.: This lecture is neither understood, nor applied inside the CofS. If it would be, the situation would be different.
In 25 years I spent on CofS lines I had met only ONE !!! MAA who had understood the Overt-Motivator-Sequence as per this tape, And this was a very old-timer.
I’ve wondered the same. I guess “guy” can be either male or female as in, “Hey guys!”, but that’s the extent. I’ve seen “him”, “he”, and “guy” used in several posts. Perhaps its a contagious assumption, or just a convenience instead of constantly using “him/her”, or “he/she”. I’m not sure. lol
Independant Scientology will take whatever form Independant Scientologists decide it will take.
There is no central authority, no controlling leader, no-one who can make those decisions. It’s up to each individual to decide what he or she wants. So, the totally correct answer to your question is “mu” – Google it, it’s a fascinating concept.
Prevailing opinion around here judging by what people are saying is that all your questions have the same answer “Yes”. People want the crap to stop and the good stuff to remain.
In case you didn’t see it, this is what she e-mailed me a couple of days ago.
Thanks for the awesome duplication. We are on the same page. I am in for sure and will do anything in my power to bring about the ousting and preservation of the tech.
Will talk later.
Here she talks about the “ousting” of dm. Today she called me and said that she still thought dm was an SP but that he would die n a few years. I didn’t even want to try to talk to her she was being so irrational.
As far as her ever getting auditing in the cult it will be ONLY sec checks and/or FPRD I can gaurantee that!!
You can reach out a hand to help, but I will not let them bite my hand. A little nibbling maybe, but no biting!
lol, it was by mistake. OK, I guess that doesn’t change a lot.
There’s a daner as with all religions that someone will usurp it to form an organisation for their own ends. I think if more people treated religion as a personal philosophy, as the bulk of the indies seem to be doing, rather than something requiring an organization to adhere to and take instruction from the world might be a better place. More free thinkers and fewer sheeple.
My apologies if this comment is off topic. I occasionally come to read your blog as I have been interested in reading about Scientology’s abuses for some time now.
I am very supportive of what you are doing- and no, this comment is not meant to offend or negate you or anybody here.
I am not a Scientologist, never have been, never plan to. I have done research day in, and day out and pretty much know the history of the religion since day 1. I disagree with many of those in the anonymous anti-scientology movement, simply because of the fact that, especially here in America, it’s one’s right to practice whatever religion they’d like.. and to harshly criticize a person’s spiritual choice is wrong.
I do, disagree with the fact that Scientology is SO expensive. You cannot go into an org and sit down and read one of the books. This, and many other factors show that corporate scientology is indeed a pyramid scheme.
this brings me to the question i’ve been wanting to ask you. Is the independent movement free? Do you advocate providing Scientology materials (books, auditing, e.t.c) for free? considering anybody can easily obtain a christian bible, jewish torrah, or muslim quran for free.. Is the independent movement encouraging to do the same with L. Ron Hubbards books?
Ideally, Scientology itself would be more welcoming to people if the books were provided for free. One can easily purchase a copy of dianetics or others online.. but .. I suppose it’s highly frowned upon in Scientology?
what’s your take on this?
Thanks for your time.
Regards, an interested citizen
MaBu, thanks for the compliment 🙂
I personally did not contribute to the incredible sequence of alterations that resulted in today`s dysfunctional Church but I certainly have been the effect of it as it inexorably attempted to curtail my freedoms. I have tried many a time to effect corrections but that has now become impossible. The justice and qual systems have been rendered completely ineffective.
As far as I am concerned, independent is independent and what that means to me is that I have the option to use or not use what I learned of value in Scientology as I see fit with or without others. Independent doesn`t mean being pushed to be part of one group or another. I had a belly full of wrong indications and enforced condition with the C of S and I now refuse to accept any more evaluations about what condition I may or may not be in or even whether or not I should apply a condition at all.
I do not agree that deciding to exit a dysfunctional group necessarily means that one is in a condition of doubt. It means that one has spotted that the group (or its leadership) is suppressive. In this case one wouldn`t apply doubt — its handle or disconnect. To me, that`s just common sense. How you go about disconnecting is a matter of need and personal choice, whether it be with a big gesture or by simply walking away. Disconnecting may include steps to protect one`s own interests as Katie did. She was smart and effective and she handled the hell out of whatever suppression or unwanted state of affairs she was addressing.
RA — as there is no hierarchy to the “independent movement” and no central “authority” there could be as many answers to this as people who consider themselves an independent Scientologist want to give.
But, as you asked, I will give you my view.
Scientology materials should be available on the internet. Free. And as widely available as possible.
In the early days, Hubbard made every effort to make his books and lectures available as cheaply as possible. The books were printed on cheap paper, the typesetting was rudimentary and they were priced very low. There was no option then to be able to make them available without cost on the internet.
There are many who would argue that this is forbidden by Hubbard’s own policy that gives pricing formulas for books etc. But one needs to look at the realities:
a. There is no individual to collect royalties for his work any longer. That royalties are still collected and go to supporting the RCS abuses is sickening. Nobody needs them. It’s not allowing LRH to continue to research and write.
b. The organizational model of the hierarchical church controlling the copyrights and trademarks and thereby monopolizing the tech in order to maximize the profits has proven not to work and be susceptible to take over by those of ill-will.
Thus, in my mind, the solution is to have all materials as widely available as possible and let the market of ideas and the free market economy provide the checks and balances. If someone wants to make a living out of delivering training and auditing to others, they will be paid what the market is willing to pay and will continue to succeed for as long as they provide a service that is desirable.
“The work was free, keep it so.”
tessa, LRH only quoted Luke 10:3 and a few following lines.
I added the quote from Matthew, about the sword, as a response to X’s plea – “Before I rush
headlong any further down this terrifying path, I want to take a
minute to say to everyone in my family: I love you. Please don’t stop
loving me. :’ ( ”
X is in the position of either telling the truth tohis family,friends,and associates within the CoS, or not telling the truth. He can suppress himself and his own integrity, or he can tell the truth. If he openly tells the truth, some, even in his own family, may “shun” him or turn against him. This is the problem Jesus recognized and spoke about. Jesus’ “sword” is telling the truth about one’s self and possibly suffering some consequences. But the alternative is worse, is it not?
And you are right, from the the those involved in the “Corruption of Scientology (CoS), they are aggressively wielding the sword of disconnection, and believe they are right to do so. But Jesus’ “sword” is simply telling the truth – the consequences will follow, like it or not, from other people. That’s what he is warning his disciples about.
LRH did not quote Mathew or the later parts of Luke10 at all to my knowledge. But I thought they applied to X’s situation and that’s why I included them. However LRH did quote the lines Luke 10:3 through 10:9 in CoHA.Apparently, in the new edition of CoHA, Luke 10:23-24 are also quoted.
Anyway, I’m rambling. My interpretations of sayings and stories in the New Testament and other old writings are my own, but based on a very long track of interpretation. Others have interpreted them differently.
Tony, this smacks of the “review” of Marty’s book someone posting as “GoodStanding” posted over at Amazon, that Safe called attention to.
This person swears that he has gotten into no trouble at all for buying and reading Marty’s book, as well as searching the Internet and reading pro-and-con posts about Miscavige and the CoS.
He/she has been challenged as to why, if it’s all copacetic with the CoS to read Marty’s book and search the Internet, he/she is not posting under their real name, and disclosing their location?
Perhaps this is the new “big lie” the trolls will be laying down – that one doesn’t get into any “trouble” for buying and reading Marty’s book or reading “entheta” on the Internet. This particular poster evidently bought the Kindle edition, as s/he is an Amazon “verified buyer”.
It will work just the way it is working right now.
For the life of me, I can’t find it, and I really want to listen to it. I can’t believe it’s this hard to find. Has there been suppression about this data? I’m amazed you found only one Scientologist who got it! How hard can the understanding be? Is the data in writing, too?
I would really appreciate if you could help me here. If you rather, you can email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Thank you so much in advance. I want to make sure I have a thorough understanding this information.
Thanks very much for this courageous and analytical discussion. You have brought forward some very excellent points, and I know we all very much appreciate your having taken the trouble to do so. We are wishing you the best.
Sarah, so far, I have seen nothing out of “Bitter Defrocked Apostate” that convinces me he/she/it is even a Scientologist, let alone an Independent.
Michael A. Hobson
It may be a tactic to get the gullible and naive to go into the cult and admit that they have been looking. Then the cult canwork thier “magic” on them. Black magic that it…
Quite possible, Tony.
After WWII ended, many Russians were living in the Far East outside of theSoviet Union, and some of those territories were occupied by Soviet forces as when, for example, Japan had to give up it’s imperial ambitions and the Chinese and Korean territories Japan had occupied. My family and some others were thus unexpectedly caught under the Soviet jurisdiction of Soviet forces..
To make a long story short, they were plied with propaganda about the glories of of the Soviet system and encouraged to come back and help build the worker’s paradise.
A few took the bait and soon after they did, they were imprisoned and sent to the GULAG where they were forced to labor, building the “paradise”.
Kay Rowe, now, isn’t that interesting? PTS, Hung up at Doubt at best Confusion more like it, caught in a Maybe. She’s in a succumb position. Too bad. I liked Kay. She’s got too many instances of violated personal integrity to see her way out clearly. It is a given she won’t get any help inside the Cof$. She will get assistance to cave in more. She should have taken the chance when she had it.
At 7:12 PM yesterday (Pacific – GoodStanding’s time zone), he replied back about my concern whether or not he had blown from our conversation with;
“Nope, still here Safe. Just in a different time zone and at work now. Will respond a bit later tonight.”
Now it’s 26 hours later, and I still have not gotten the reply he promised. It appears, GoodStanding has blown from my comm. The questions I posed were apparently too much to confront. Coming in as a “greater than thou” corporate Scientologist (perhaps OSA), he tried to “handle” Marty’s book, but instead, the result he created was a huge footbullet causing information to be exposed he cannot answer to and becoming pwned.
I still hope for a response, but don’t anticipate one.
one “MAA”, not one Scientologist.
You will get a mail.
There’s been a marked change in Co$ inc tactics recently. Rather than lazily publishing puff pieces in vanity press release agencies they’re now writing articles for comment or open story sections in established newspapers, usually only reproduced online. There was one in the UK Guardian a few days back about why people in Hollywood liked the church of scientology so much for instance; because in Hollywood it’s the people you know who stab you in the back and the church of scientology provides an environment where this doesn’t happpen.
The examples of Co$ inc puff pieces I’ve read have been quite carefully crafted, to one with a nose for it they still stink of Co$ corporate speak.
Mind you a quick check on the (rather too lengthy if you ask me) Guardian piece, under their online “Comment is free” section suggests the only likely readers are those, like me, who keep tabs on Co$ inc related articles. No comments on the Guardian one but comments on others provided by Louanne +.
Suffice to say their is some innovative sneakiness going on, desperation being the mother of invention I guess. I suspect other innovative tactics will be or are being employed. I wonder if this some new force within Co$ inc other than Miscavige that in time will displace him; it’s like a new person or group is running the show.
Maybe y’all will be forgiven and welcomed back in to the fold. I suspect some will be tempted with gifts and position and the ear of the “new order” just so others will follow. My did I wake up cynical this morning. LOL.
Joe Howard still being used in 2011.
“Do you really think that any of this would be going on if he didn’t approve of it?” 100% right on the money.
Imagine what it was like at the int base, realizing that “COB” had orders to do all kinds of things, and when it went wrong he had to handle everything himself, because no one at the base could ever do anything right (per him), but he would still give orders to change what was just already done that he had ordered….man, it was NUTS!
So you actually see this wacky administrative mechanism in play, every day, right in front of your nose, your friends and fellow staff are always wrong in what they did, so are you, and you’ve been told again for the 100th time this week that you are a non-productive piece of dead wood.
You look around for some help with KSW. You realize there is NO PLACE TO GO! You can’t go any higher than “COB,” but you actually see all the craziness coming from him, and he tells you about it in briefings and in his “comms” and “traffic” –it’s all there, right out of his mouth and right from the keyboards of his numerous secretaries.
That’s how I figured it out. It was so obviously nuts from the top down. I kept real quiet, figured out how I would get out of there and escaped. What a relief.
X’s stories, from someone who never even was at the int base, were shocking to me because all I ever saw was the crap at the base. Man, I feel for ya, X. Your story is definitely duplicated here. Seeing what you said gives me more reality on what happened down the command lines into orgs. At least by leaving I pulled any assistance I afforded the crazy guy at the top away from him. If you haven’t made the big step yet that’s all you need to do. Pull the plug, stop helping the guy for starters.
You do know what you know. You already know there is no longer any true Scientology available within the “church’s” administration. You don’t even need to get your “who” question answered–you already know it’s total squirrel, so split that pop stand. Then decompress a little, and it will dawn on you. More and more will come to view, way more than you have already spotted.
If you are worried about family, I don’t think it will be much longer and the flood gates will open. They’ll be asking you “Hey–why didn’t you tell us about this before!” RIght? 🙂
Good luck to you, and hurry up!
@ Bitter Defrocked Apostate. You seem to have forgotten the kinds of ‘Double think” that is required by those on the inside of ‘The Cult Bubble’ of Corporate Scientology, and perhaps so blasé at this point about your own free life on the outside – that you cannot remember or credit the amount of soul searching, anguish, and dread faced by those still on the inside, those who still have one ounce of courage and integrity left – to start asking questions.
Therefore I take my hat off to Scientologist X – for the ability to question the status quo, after having been born, bred, raised, and working for the Corporate church, apparently on staff. Being willing to LOOK – on the ‘inside’ as well as on the ‘outside’ to be pulling some strings to find and locate the ‘who’. Should it be surprising, that Scientologist X doesn’t know, or is still puzzled about ‘who’? Truthfully, Scientologist X – already knows the answers, but prevented to be able to think otherwise of the obvious ‘who’ and ‘what’ and ‘why’ of this enquiry.
How is this possible? The Corporate Church must have implemented George Orwell’s “1984” – at some point in it’s history – complete with the ‘Thought Police’ in charge of the Corporate Bubble. Here is an extract from ‘1984’, and to draw this comparison have substituted the word ‘democracy’ in the original script with the word ‘freedom’.
“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness – while telling carefully constructed lies – to hold simultaneously two opinions – which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic.
To repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that freedom was impossible and that the Party was the (only) guardian of freedom, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself — that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word ‘doublethink’ involved the use of doublethink.”
Think back to your time in the Corporate Church. Scientologist X wonders – ‘who’ is responsible for the outpoints listed. Can’t believe it is actually happening under ‘command intention’ and in the hands of ‘the most ethical people on the Planet’. Does Scientologist X know the truth? Yes and also NO. It is doublethink, right out of the pages of Orwell’s “1984.” And if you tell Scientologist X and Corporate-companions this – they will doublethink their way out of getting the right item of the ‘who’ – done not with malicious intent – but out of a sheer desperate sense to protect self, family and friends – to stave off the loss of ‘one’s eternity’ and banishment to the outside world populated by wogs…..
At least Scientologist X has begun the search to find the facts being withheld. Unless those on the inside, gets another firm grip of Scientologist X – as Orwell says: ‘the process is applied to the process – so that one is finally deluding oneself – that up is down or black is white. And so Scientologist X will be told “What is true for you, is true for you’ — but KNOW – will be only true as long as one tows ‘the Party line’ with ‘Command Intention”… . You do know this is true Scientologist X – that is why you said your EO brother’s heart will be broken. You dared to have a thought of your own.
And if you are a Sea Org member – do remember that, a free loader bill and SO contract is legally unenforceable, and that the routing-out process is designed to degrade you, make you wrong for wanting to leave, convince you that you have overts, and to convince you to stay, and do remember, that if anyone tries to physically restrain you, they are guilty of kidnapping and wrongful imprisonment – so be Tone 40 in facing the truth of the ‘who’ the ‘why’ and the ‘what for’. And – no one can ever take your eternity away from you – that is a lie.
Scientologist X – the way out – is through the front door.
Excuse me, “newcomer” but I’m not part of any “we” that did not apply KSW or was “reasonable”. Speak for yourself – assuming there is an actual “yourself” behind that pseudonym.
Michael A. Hobson
FYI, it is very likely that LRH never wrote or saw the 1983 HCOB “PTSness and DISCONNECTION” which you quoted from (which specifically requires that a Scientologist disconnect from someone labeled an SP by HCO). This was the beginning of enforced disconnection in the Church of Scientology (covered well by Jim Logan in his “3D Engram” article at scientology-cult.com).
Robert Vaughn Young claimed in a Feb-1997 affidavit that it was he who had authored that HCOB, not LRH. Specifically, RVY stated:
“I have personal knowledge that material was written and issued under the name of L. Ron Hubbard that he did not author. While working at ASI, I personally wrote material to be issued under his name for several years. This ranged from simple messages to be sent to various organizational staff on events such as his birthday or a holiday, to my composing an entire large directive that was issued under his name. In these instances, they were done without his knowledge or consent. The directive that I wrote concerned the Scientology policy of ‘Disconnection’. The order to do this came from David Miscavige. Miscavige said that we had to reinstitute the Policy of Disconnection and that I was to write the policy for this. I wrote it and it went through several revisions. It was not sent to Hubbard for his approval, but was issued into the Church of Scientology. I might note that at the time I was not working for the Church of Scientology, but was working for a for-profit corporation.”
[Source: http://www.rediscoverscientology.com/tiziano-lugli.html ]
There’s another interesting bit of history that Jim may not have been aware of when he wrote that article. In late 1982, the “Suppressive Acts” list in Introduction to Scientology Ethics (ISE) began enforcing disconnection between individuals. Specifically, the SP Acts list in ISE was changed to require that Scientologists disconnect from “individuals … declared suppressive by HCO”. Prior to that, all of the printings of ISE going back to 1969, had required that Scientologists disconnect only from “groups declared suppressive by HCO” — not individuals. With Ethics Officers in Churches around the world pretty universally using the ISE book for their reference on Justice Codes and SP Acts when working with individual Scientologists (staff and public), this change also no doubt significantly added to the implementation of enforced disconnection beginning in 1982/1983 in the CoS. The ISE book has maintained this change ever since.
Heart-ripping / gripping and BRILLIANTTTTTTT as you say.
Since you know each other I have this certainty that you can help Scientologist X to complete his Doubt Formula. successfully and keep that wave of truly freed beings going.
Yes, I posted this particular issue because Jim did take it up in his dissertation. I believe Robert Young. Did Katie read it? How many have?
Thanks for the additional info. Hopefully Jim will read this post and can add it to his dissertation if he thinks it will shed more light.
As regards ISE — the alterations in that one book are nothing short of stunning. It was a little bitty book when I first started. Now it is a massive dissertation of rules upon rules upon rules, almost all of it out of context. One can hardly attribute these alterations to grammatical errors on the part of stenographers!
All that aside, it seems pretty clear to me that regardless of the source of the information it is imperative that an individual use their own judgment as to what is going to be workable in their own situation. Otherwise its just another form of enforcement even if it is just self-imposed.
Good job, Safe. I read some of your posts to him/her.They are detailed and very well documented and referenced. Too much to handle I think. If this person posts again, I doubt there will be much rebuttal of you.
I stand corrected. in Dutch language “mens” is the word for human being, go figure
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This article is about the figure in Roman mythology. For the commune in France, see Mens, Isère.
In Roman mythology, Mens, also known as Bona Mens or Mens Bona (Latin for “Good Mind”), was the personification of thought, consciousness and the mind, and also of “right-thinking”. Her festival was celebrated on June 8. A temple on the Capitoline Hill in Rome was vowed to Mens in 217 BC on advice from the Sibylline Books, and was dedicated in 215 BC.
The Latin word mens expresses the idea of “mind” and is the origin of English words like mental and dementia. The gifted-only organization Mensa International was originally to be named mens in the sense of “mind”, but took instead the name Mensa (Latin: “table”) to avoid ambiguity with “men’s” in English and “mens” in other languages.
Betsy, I’m late on this so don’t know if anyone will see it, but the things CARA did with you, the questions and discussions, were the same she did with us and I think some others. As I said, she likes to talk about herself. Beyond that, I’d say she’s “open-minded,”–the kind that can dither all day but can’t make up her own mind–needs someone like DM to tell her what to think. LOL
You are absolutely right, Lynne.
And despite Kay Rowe “disconnecting” from people here, she has still managed to continue to communicate since announcing her decision. The thing that she fails to see is that the wins people do have in the Church are not because of “The Basics” or “GAOT”, as she attributes…they win because of the tech that LRH codified and that they still somehow manage to get some of…DESPITE DM.
Thank you Worsel. So enlightening! 🙂
Looks like “GoodStanding” did some research on me and discovered my “overt” of going to a strip club, and revealed that in his reply to me. (By the way, confronting beautiful women helped build my confront up learning how to talk to them comfortably without stammering, and learning how to say “no”. lol.)
Titianna posted a brilliant reply, and I expounded on it with this;
“Thank you, Tatiana. Very good observations which I’ll add to.
1) GoodStanding is flopping on his/her TR’s. The first step is to “Be there and confront.” Flunk (Fail).
Effect (the receipt point) must have the intention to duplicate Cause. Flunk on that, too.
Clearly, both TR’s and Grade O is out. It makes GoodStanding not even appear to be a Scientologist. What is the church teaching nowadays? It doesn’t appear to be Scientology to me. (Of course, I’ve known this for a long time.) Corporate Scientologists are not allowed to apply Scientology. If they do, they will go to Ethics.
2) Mary (Freeman) has a GREAT Ethics training program in the independent Scientology field. She had it LRH approved when he was alive. The church screwed her over, so she took the program to the independent field.
I may have been too optimistic about GoodStanding’s condition of Confusion. The lower condition below that, Delusion, enforces itself naturally. Once one wakes up out of this “Know Best” condition, then they can apply the Confusion formula asking themselves, “Where am I?”.
I highly recommend Mary Freeman’s program to GoodStanding.
Again, what the hell is the church teaching nowadays?
It’s certainly not encouraging corporate Scientologists to APPLY Scientology! They give Scientology such a bad name just by their behavior, and failure to apply standard tech. I see corporate Scientologists not applying tech all the time. When hit with hard questions, they avoid (lie, hide and/or hit) instead of confront.
I know that’s not what Scientologists were taught in the basic Communications Course (provided of course, if it is the same Communications Course I was taught in 1979 at the Portland Mission of Davis. Perhaps the communication formula has changed since the Golden Age of Tech Degrades.) “
Lynne, agreed. If what she is saying is true that she only started looking a month ago, she’s got to be in full blown restim and has got to go thru some major decompression/de-ptsing, it comes off in layers and the CofM won’t give her that luxury if in fact she is not a plant and has been outed prematurely here. I feel sorry for her as she won’t be strong enough to deal with the suppression that is surely going to come her way. She certainly didn’t help the process by making that Facebook announcement. Either way she’s got a lot to confront.
I talked to her today and she is redoing her doubt as she never had all of her questions answered. I told her to take her time and do it for herself and not let anyone rush her either from the “church” or on the outside.
Very good points, Safe! I especially agree with your
the tail end ones, as I’m sure most vet’s do too!
The pycho dictator, li’ll davey’s, Ponzi operation
plans, just could never have succeeded, without
the full support & financing of his kool aid drunk
micavigeoholics. Mind control, via Black Dianetics
& REverse Scn, are THE thoroughly overworked
tools that have made all this sacrilege of Scn possible.
The dulling of perceptions, is unfortunately, one
of the most paralysing, of those tools
Being made AWARE of these facts, there is only
one rational response possible towards the CO$;
A fraudulent, criminal, dangerous, imposter
organization, using reprehensible mind control
to achieve it’s purposes, orchestrated by it’s
creator, david miscavige.
“31 FACTORS”, located at the top of Marty’s blog,
as well as Steve Hall’s “Scientology Cult. com,”
give a thorough expounding on the details for
the benefit of a newcomer to the topic.
Thanks for your always interesting posts, BTW.
Very well stated, Mike. My opinion completely.
Wow, a complete mock-up. . . that really makes sense.
That is my opinion, also. I’m a bit relieved to know that’s your opinion, too.
Ironically, Anonymous has played a vital role in making LRH tech available to all. Though, likely, for reasons other than to help promote LRH. I believe their intent is to deprive corporate Scientology’s (ie; David Misacavige) coffers. I’m in full agreement with that, too.
Scientologist X, I saw so many of the same things you’ve observed, especially with the children of staff being woefully neglected on so many levels.
I know it’s got to be tough to imagine your family disconnecting from you over your observations of truth. And it is truth, what you write.
You have a large group of people here who wish you the best and will help you in any and every way possible, myself included.
Captain Bob, that is a very good point about leading. Some people have the courage to move forward and others gain strength from their having done so. My ex thanked me for having the courage to leave, because that gave him the courage to leave too.
newcomer, thanks for posting, that is communicating. Don’t let Mike get to you, he has a problem with “WE”.
My question of Who Will Replace DM is not directed at ex members, although I was never a member, I just wanted services.
My question is for those still in to ask themselves the question and then maybe they will look for answers. I never asked the question I posed when I started taking services 30 years ago. So why not ask the question now, in PT?
It’s sort of like Wall Street. You have all these people who bought shares of a companies stock. And you wish the stock to increase in share value over time. You are a long term holder of the stock. A perfect example is Warren Buffet and his company Berkshire Hathaway.
Warren is old, really old, but he is and has been looking into somebody that will replace him, mind you his company share price is $30,000 per share. And he wants somebody to replace him so that they will forward the goals of the company and increase the share price of the company over time when he departs. This is a good thing for somebody that has ownership of the shares of his company. He doesn’t want to screw them over. He wants to make sure that the new “CEO” is competent and will increase shareholder value of money per share.
Now, in the Scientology world, why we don’t have shares of the “organization” called Scientology, but how do we have shares?
Who would take over if DM left?
Not that I care, but it’s a question to ask oneself if one was involved in the COS? What happens in the future?
How odd, that was my thought too and, as you know Marty, I’ve never been in scientology. I guess you care about as much as I do.
A more relevant question might be who gets all the money, my guess is the lawyers.
“”In the early days, Hubbard made every effort to make his books and lectures available as cheaply as possible. The books were printed on cheap paper, the typesetting was rudimentary and they were priced very low. There was no option then to be able to make them available without cost on the internet.”
TRUE FACT (TRUFAX) I have a 1971 -Vintage- scientology booklet , A new Slant on life, Al prices are between 5 to 10 dollars if I recollect correctly.
You are a genuine Sherlock Holmes aren’t you my British friend.
I greatly appreciate your opinion.. and more so, your dedication to what you believe in. This path.. though many have followed it, has been quite turbulent for you and so many others along with you. it’s truly inspiring to know that contrary to popular belief of corporate scientologists high and low.. you have never truly strayed from your calling. The ultimate truth is that even without books.. courses.. training.. everybody has the ability to reach their respective stage of clear. We are born with that ability. You & everyone else on here are positive. strong-willed. intelligent. passionate. supportive. You guys have already found your happiness- helping each other… and other critical thinkers like myself.. to respect everybody’s wishes in life. For you guys to stress the importance of giving it.. not taking away.. will, in the end.. lead to other curious souls like me truly understanding what your beliefs are.
Cheers- to the genuine, kind-natured people on this planet.
Sincerely, a proud young anon
Thank you for the link to Jason Beghe’s video (1 through 4). I am totally engrossed in it right now.
I have so much empathy for you and I do know exactly who you are. I wish I could reach out to you. Of course it’s highly possible by now you have been coeresed back into the folds of this organization gone berserk, if only to maintain ties with your family and friends and avoid the inevitable disconnection. I too have ties that won’t allow me to come forward and I understand. Family is the most important part of my life and I could not imagine losing those I love.
Bravo, Scientologist X. I admire and agree with you on many points. I am also a Scientologist operating under the radar within the indie movement. I am working to safeguard my family before announcing my independence. You can find my postings under AnonIndie on various sites including MilestoneTwo.org.
I am really late on commenting on this blog, because I just read it. Scientologist X, your account practically brought tears to my eyes. You are so right about the terrible changes that have taken place in Scientology. I got in in 1969 and out in April 2014 and it is so different from the way it was. I read Luis’ letter and went over it with the EO at OC Org and while she wasn’t hostile to me she also couldn’t really answer my questions. And as to “Who?” it is David Miscavige. It must be because he is the one setting and implementing policy and strategy for the Church. It is not enough to adhere to the teachings of Ron in today’s Church. One must adhere to the teachings of DM as well. I hope you have by now resolved what to do about your difficult situation.