Selectively Numbing and Thought Stopping

At chapter ten in What Is Wrong With Scientology?,  I discuss the thought stopping process that Scientologists are conditioned to engage in.   I have subsequently recognized a couple more insidious by-products of that thought stopping process.  They might in fact explain the substantial ‘decompression’ process period corporate Scientologists seem to need to feel human again.   I got to thinking about this after viewing an extraordinary talk that a friend sent me the link to.  It was given by Dr. Brene Brown, research professor of Sociology at the University of Houston.   I highly recommend you watch and listen to this in full when you have got 21 minutes to spare:

In order to acceptably thought-stop in corporate Scientology, don’t we also stop (or numb) our emotions?    I think Brown is right that people cannot selectively numb emotion.   Instead, they numb themselves so as to wall off, or not-is, emotion.   After engaging in the process enough we make ourselves incapable of experiencing spontaneous – and appropriate – emotion.   Perhaps the same mechanism occurs with thought.

In either event, I think – irony or ironies – that Scientology communication training routines (including mood drills) do wonders in rehabilitating the damage done by years of thought-stopping and emotion-numbing within corporate Scientology.  That is, when they are done as they were originally designed to be practiced.  And that is, as a fun, decidedly unserious, activity.


331 responses to “Selectively Numbing and Thought Stopping

  1. Spontaneous and appropriate: fundamental products of the philosophy, what life’s all about!

  2. Terrific and bears more than one watching.

    There is so much good and fascinating going on with the TED programs.

  3. In my experience, there seemed to be the false notion pushed within the Church that if one was to experience an emotion, such as anger or grief, that it was akin to being the adverse effect…even if it was appropriate to the situation. And since being effect would equate to being a victim… one dare not admit they felt those emotions without quickly getting themselves “handled”.

    Life is full of experiences that create joy and anger and grief…being able to experience it all is living life. The freedom to experience them, good and bad, is much more causative than shutting them out.

  4. Fascinating talk. What is most interesting to me about this is that she gives another perspective and take on things that I find to be very real and true for me. And part of the thought stopping in the RCS is that you cannot look at what anyone else has to say about living life and attaining happiness — that is “squirrel/other practices” and its exactly what she is talking about with respect to religion “I am right, you are wrong.”

    Thanks Marty. Your constant search for understanding is inspiring and greatly appreciated….

  5. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, it is also a great study in serv fac phenomena.

  6. One of the more helpful ways to help “blow” the mindset and indoctrination is to stop using Scientology words, terms and concepts for a while and use “wog world” words instead. This helps greatly to get rid of the mindfuck. Hope this helps.


  7. E.J. Croughs

    Somehow I understand LRH a lot better when he talks about the tone scale. Numb is in the fear band and shuts off all motion because of extreme fear. In that band there’s no compassion, happiness, love, wholeheartedness, connecting or any high motion. It’s the sordid state of fearing and mongering fear and the contamination of fear. It actually sucks to be in that band, ask any odd corporate tyrant who specializes in terror!

    Fear and vulnerability go hand in hand like courage and wholeheartedness. The answer is simple, move up the tone scale and say good bye to fear and all accompanying undesirable effects on human connectedness.

  8. I love her discussion on the fear of “vulnerability” and how it affects so many areas of life and is directly related to courage. I would think that anybody who has made it through to Marty’s blog has personally experienced that!:)

  9. Very useful data.

    We need to know when good enough is enough.
    It’s true for life and it’s true for arts.

    Since Miscavige implemented the IAS and its statutes, the culture of Scientology as it was know before got lost.
    He is pushing this button of “you ain’t woth anything if you don’t raise your status.”
    And Corporate Scientologists play this game in order to feel a belongningness. They even blame themself (and each other) for not having contributed enough.

    This game is not limited to the IAS, though.

  10. And BTW, Marty, I really enjoyed the descriptions of the Grades and the Serv Fac phenomenons in particular in your book.
    Your book is very helpful and I even told my spiritual teacher (from a time before I was Scientologist) about your book. He never understood why I would enter to a “cult” like this. He never understood my love for Scientology.
    I am sure he will understand, once he reads your differentiations and descriptions.

    You’re doing good for Scientology Philosophy and its Applications.

  11. When I first got into the church, it was openly discussed in lectures and public events that you should feel emotion, even the bad ones if they are situationally appropriate. I specifically remember one lecture where the guy was saying that if you walk around smiling after your mother dies — there may be an issue you need to resolve. In my later time “in” I remember seeing that philosophy wiped out.

    It was a very strange time in the church for me as I could actually FEEL the pervasive, suppressive, hypnotic atmosphere of “Don’t show you are upset or someone will try to “handle” you and will not let you just have your emotions.

    I remember specifically how I felt like I had to deal with my problems on my own because if you were not smiling all the time, you got sent to ethics. The fact that my husband was cheating was supposed to make me smile!!!!

    I just wanted to have and feel my emotions without being told I was wrong, or weak, or out ethics.

    So now that I have that freedom to feel and express, I would like to lead my self (because I don’t claim to be the leader of anyone else) by example, be vulnerable, throw myself out there and say: MY HUSBAND WAS CHEATING. And it fucking hurt.

    please standby…………………

    And now that I have had another 15 minutes between the last paragraph and this one to blow some charge on being able to say it publicly and with an appropriate emotion, I would just like to say thank you for all of the acknowledgement I know I must have been given from this audience.

  12. thank you

  13. Speaking of context, I highly recommend the BBC Documentary called “A Century of Self”. Here is a link to Part II:
    called “The Manufacturing of Consent”. It is eye opening an quite a number of levels.

  14. Nice Link. Thanks!

  15. I am looking forward to watching the clip this evening. It reminded me of one thing in the church that I always found to be illogical and probably a misinterpretation or alteration of Hubbard’s concept of misemotion.

    I understood the core concept of misemotion to be emotion inappropriate to a situation. In practice, it became anything 2.0 or below on the tone scale, regardless of the context. To me, grief (to pick one emotion) is not a misemotion in an of itself. It would be inappropriate (reactive misemotion) if say one felt profound grief on what would normally be the happiest day of one’s life.

    Siimilarly with anger: is it misemotion (and sign of a missed withhold or overt) for one to be angry at the abuses in corporate Scientology? Rather, that would seem to be the _proper_ emotion, and a feeling of contentment or enthusiasm about things like crush regging or forcing disconnection, THAT would seem to me to be the misemotion.

    Though the numbers on the Tone Scale (of emotions) may give a sense of measurement precision that may not be the case, the overall structure of the Scale is (in my opinion) very useful and insightful.

    But if one proceeds as if any “uncomfortable” emotion must come from the “bank” or result from overts and withholds, then one can control the population of believers within the corporate church. The observation leading to the uncomfortable emotion is invalidated, and the attention is shifted back onto the person’s responsibility, misunderstandings, or overt acts. Corporate Scientology thus insulates itself from all criticism from all adherents. Surely, this is a Black Dianetics practice. At least I think it is.

    The great irony is that a truly liberated person can indeed exercise great control over one’s emotional state. Every humanist, every human potential leaders, and probably every true Scientologist knows this. Like many, I can generally float my needle at will. Feels good. But if I see something horrible happen and it makes me angry, I am not going to consider that a misemotion if the emotion is triggered by real events in real time, if I consider that to be my authentic response to the situation, and if I am not dramatizing something from the past. “Down tone” does not in my opinion apply to someone appropriately responding but rather someone who is chronically stuck in lower tones due to accumulated “charge.”

    Just some thoughts. Thanks for sharing the video. I look forward to watching.

  16. Marty, plz contact me via email…..need assistance

  17. Very well done Marty, I watched the video.
    I liked it.

  18. martyrathbun09

    So do I

  19. This so perfectly fits into what the Corp Church is doing I had to listen to it again.

    One of the things that struck me was what she had to say about shame and its relationship to connection. Shame reduces a persons willingness for connection. This is being done to those in the hole consistently and constantly and is why they stay. They “know” they are bad. It has been, not so slowly, creeping out into the rest of Corp Scientology.

    You are made to feel ashamed through incorrectly, overdone and abusive sec checking where thoughts are now overts. By running this black scientology you have immediately succeeded in making the individual feel shame for his actions and thoughts and in doing so have reduced the persons willingness to reach and to think. He is ashamed for his thoughts as abusive sec checking has “taught” him to be.

    The basis of thought stopping is to make thought a painful event and a crime. Connections to those not so indoctrinated will be severed as a survival mechanism. It has become full blown antisocial cultists behaviors of us against them as embodied in the church and pinnacled at OSA.

    This is DM’s method unwrapped.

    I would love to her what Dr. Brown would conclude if she had the tone scale to further align the data she has. It would be engaging.

  20. martyrathbun09

    Problem is that simply following that command results in the Truman Show Scientology Inc culture.

  21. Great talk – very interesting. You are right about thought mirroring emotion. If you suppress the “negative” emotions, you also suppress the positive ones, and I think that does translate into if you suppress looking or receiving thoughts that are “dangerous” or weird, you are also suppressing all other thought.

    One of the questions I have been asking myself in the last several years is: What if ALL of Scientology is BS? What if it is true that LRH was a charlatan? I can definitely feel a sort of fear – I may have invested my life into something that is a true sham.

    But, it is a question that HAS to be asked, over and over, as we move through to the next phase. The only way to answer this question is to do Scientology and see. Thank God I did. But that is all Ron ever asked us to do, isn’t it?

    Asking the “BS” question and boldly going wherever it may lead is a very rewarding activity once you get over the fear of losing your stable data. It leads us to talks like this one, to finding synergies with other people and religions – I, for one, found a surprising (to me) amount of wisdom in the Bible, and a strong parallel between Scientology and Christianity – Judaism and Scientology as well.

    It also forces you to be fearless in your opinions, and allows you to be wrong – the ultimate in vulnerability.

    It will also guarantee arguments (like the political argument in the last post 🙂 ). But, “thetans without banks have different responses” (KSW), and that is a GOOD thing. But scary.

    Independent Scientologists are basically grown-up Scientologists.

  22. One very huge ACK to you!

  23. I too encountered this when I experienced a huge loss. I was told: “no case on post,” by a Chaplain — yet I wasn’t on any post! I was told: “knock off the HE&R” and told to get my ethics in. I was told that I was “causing a flap” and “setting a bad example.” And “get your TRs in.”

    I was hurting. Really badly. It was my MD who acknowledged me, saying that I did not have any physical damage or disease, but that didn’t mean that a broken heart didn’t hurt with very real pain. He said he had seen this many, many times, the pain was real, and told me that the pain symptoms would subside over time. He told me to be sure to accept the gifts of love and support from the people who cared about me and not turn them away.

    Every Church member I knew at that time just told me that I needed to get my ethics in and “write em up” so I would quit dramatizing and putting entheta on their lines. The only people I knew at that time that had any compassion or empathy were non-Church members. They did the best they could, mainly listened, letting me cry without judging me.

  24. Great post Marty!
    I really enjoyed the clip.
    Just as she says you can’t selectively shut off your emotions. If you shut off one you shut off the others to some degree. And as you say if you shut or stop your own thoughts wouldn’t it contribute to shutting off other thoughts and lowering your IQ? I think so.
    Scientology could be practiced with fun and un-seriosness and vulnerability and tolerance and patience. I think that is starting to happen.
    I believe that we are witnessing a metamorphisis of the philosophy.
    The cocoon of ignorance is hatching a beautiful butterfly of great beauty and wisdom.

  25. She is certainly a captivating speaker. It amazes me, what she touches upon. In a sense, it is in the ballpark of what LRH was commenting on back in 1954, in the PAB re: The Code of Honor:

    “If you believed Man was worthy enough to be granted by you sufficient stature so as to permit you to exercise gladly the Code of Honour, I can guarantee that you would be a happy person. And if you found an occasional miscreant falling away from the best standards you have developed, you yet did not turn away from the rest of Man, and if you discovered yourself betrayed by those you were seeking to defend and yet did not then experience a complete reversal of opinion about all your fellow men, there would be no dwindling spiral for you.”

  26. Eileen Clark

    Thank you for posting this. I’ve sent it on to my family as it is a brilliant explanation of what I’ve been unable to get across to them, for various reasons, the greatest one of which has been fear that keeps them from being able to openly communicate with me about anything other than the weather and such things. The other is “I am right and you are wrong”.

  27. Wow – I found this fascinating and helpful – thanks, Marty.

  28. Luis Agostini

    The fact that this video has prompted me to want to pass it to others (and do so), a very rare occurrence for me, shows how impressed with Brene Brown and her viewpoints I am.

    Thank you Marty for bringing it to be viewed.



  29. Thanks for letting that out, Nanette. I really did get that.

  30. Thank you. You don’t know what that means to me.

  31. My take-away from her talk was just the opposite. Rather than insisting on being uptone, you have to be willing to experience fear, anger, grief, the possibility of rejection, or whatever else life is throwing at you. If you allow yourself to be vulnerable, you also allow yourself to really feel joy and satisfaction, and to have ARC (connection) with the rest of the world.

    In the RCS of course, you are wrong to feel downtone, display HE&R, have case on post, be in a lower condition (on anything), have counter-intention, etc etc. As a result, you become more and more numb and disconnected while your world shrinks, and shrinks, and shrinks.

  32. Thank you. I did not state it as elequently as you did, but what you said is EXACTLY the things they said to me – and to my husband to convince him that I was bad.

    I guess they used the reverse to convince him that a girl (staff member) who would go after him sexually while he was trying to set his marriage straight in the church is a good girl. Talk about “Reverse Scientology”!

  33. The subject of this posting brought me to remember the stable datum “no case on post” that was constantly drummed into our heads as staff. In fact I just found a ref HCOPL 24 Jun 79, Crime Additions,which adds “case” as a crime to HCOPL 7 Mar 65 Offenses and Penalties. Of course, it’s almost always someone else’s evaluation as to whether you’re manifesting case and hardly anyone would want to be subject to that vulnerability. Hence the self-numbing process as self-protection.

  34. Wonderful clip Marty —

    It\’s continuously remarkable to me just how much sanity actually exists in the world.

    We are fortunate people as we have the ability to view other perceptions and with our experience within scientology – both good and bad – see the workability of what has been shared.

    I appreciate your continuous willingness to share with everyone what you are learning and experiencing.

    That is courage.


  35. You’re a babe. Thank you

  36. Great find! Dr. Brown looks like she’d make a great standup comic.

  37. Nannette –
    Definitely understood!
    I remember a staff member all smiley and “uptone” the morning of 911. Like nothing had happened. I was in shock and not ready to smile about anything. Boy was that unreal or what!?

  38. E.J. Croughs

    To the contrary, being uptone and selfdetermined allows your integrity and prohibits the Truman show for you. Only those people that accepted the threats lost their integrity and went down the shute. The more they accepted it, the more they contributed and thus the longer their decompression (make up) period.

  39. Do you mean like the word “wog?”
    Just saying… how about just calling it english or spanish or… or… or…
    The wog thing is another way of trying to put us above others, imho.

  40. E.J. Croughs

    Right, you should be willing to experience any emotion like anger, grief and fear, etc, as that makes you cause over it and prevents you to hang up in it. My take is that once at cause, you won’t hang around there and can generally move around the higher tones. Life is actually fun there and it expands!

  41. The organized culture of the cult organization ( as opposed to the freeing and relieving philosophy ) has control as an essential element. Scientologists are expected to control or handle any people and all life situations. Isn’t this is closely related to the “control case” that LRH described as highly aberrated ?

    Seriousness is also heavily stressed, because “only tigers survive this universe, and even they have a hard time”.

    But there are many other high-toned elements and concepts in the philosophy : affinity, admiration, permeation, “the future is endlessly beautiful”, un-seriousness, etc.

    However, these cannot be forced onto others. You can’t order your juniors at the top of your lungs to have high affinity or to be un-serious. So if you desire to have an old fashioned effect on your juniors you must resort to low-toned concepts like control, seriousness, you-are-wrong etc. This has occurred earlier as all kinds of former practices, from military to slavery, from destructive power plays to implanting.

    Most of us have witnessed this in Co$. And now we know how ‘successful’ it is in the long run. Time to engage in something better !

  42. And yet one of the tenets is that a person should experience appropriate emotion; that being unable to move up and down the tone scale appropriate to the situation is a sign of fixedness and non-optimum.

  43. Patty, the funny part is when you realize you cannot think of a realworld term for a concept. Sometimes it’s because there isn’t one, other times there’s a fine word that actually communicates to others without having to go into a long explanation…

  44. Li'll bit of stuff

    NOW we’re getting back to the way it USED TO BE,Tony!
    Seeking WISDOM in FREEDOM while having FUN!!!!!!!

  45. Rejection, and Betrayal after Trust, on both the 2nd and 3rd Dynamics.!?!???

    Hugs to you.

  46. I would like to point out that staff members who live by the motto “no case on post,” and yet are poor, living in shitty quarters, driving mildewed beaters (cars), ARE exhibiting case on post. Oh, and FAT too (I mean balloonoid fat, unhealthy, etc.) It’s ALL case on post, baby. The answer is to HELP them, not invalidate them!

  47. It also is common knowledge that LRH had a raging temper that could – and often did – blow people out of the water (metaphorically speaking).

    In at least a few Ron’s Journals and other places he notes having wept because one thing or another had really upset him – like having had letters to him stopped.

    Plus he wrote extensively about how removing the reactive mind enabled one to move freely up and down the tone scale as circumstances warranted.

    There is so much knowledge and information available in Scientology, and so much of it has been misunderstood and/or misevaluated by so many.

    LRH might disapprove of this suggestion, because he was not a big fan of educational “tests”. But maybe there should be some REAL testing before someone can simply attest to a training level. What the hell, maybe on the level of the Bar exam that prospective attorneys have to go pass.

    One major problem with the current scene, one that’s been around a long time, that bears some responsibility for having brought Scientology (RCS) to its current low condition – and that is, a hell of a lot of “Scientologists” both on and off staff, have no real understanding of the subject and therefore have it mixed up with god only knows what earlier practices.

    Another reason Marty’s book is a must-read, especially for Scientologists both in and out.

  48. Theo Sismanides

    Reading a bit of the PDCs these days, I can comment on this in this way:

    By knowing my Tone Scale and by knowing about the Tone Level of Shame (for which the Greek word is Introversion, actually, if that helps, that is turning to the inside) I am fine and can understand so much more.

    Now knowing about what a Thetan is and having some part of his Hat under my belt but also some real experience about how does a Thetan conduct himself and how he deals with Ethics, I don’t think i need to much of this ladie’s talk. Obviously, yes there are things in there to analyze and one should listen to it more times to fully understand it.

    But I think the explanation is much to the direction of the ability to confront force. Go tell this lady or that audience and they wouldn’t understand. LRH however spoke about that many times and all that Miscavige mainly does is applying force all over the place. Lacking in intelligence and being just a monotone monarch he has concentrated on force.

    I thought Scientologists would make it out of the rat race, as LRH describes this society in the PDCs. Well it will take a while, since they are still discovering WHO they really are.

    If there were real Thetans in the S.O. this wouldn’t have happened.

    In my case for example, I was bold enough about the Translations Issues and I was screaming in a session in AOSHEU where we were supposedly spotting outpoints, I was protesting to the Security Guards who kept me captive for 6 months in a security room, all staff knew Theo has some beef on the Translations HCOBs not being applied… I was refusing to do MEST work and was reading Battlefield Earth instead and I was being a captive, was writing letters uplines and to RTC Rep EU… hahaha… was talking to the TU EU staff and Vicco Terzi and Italian Translator told me once “OK, we will come to your funeral”, meaning if you dare say anything like this uplines, if you dare confront them.

    I had tremendous force but no brains. I used to scream and shout and protest. However force was needed and it should be emanated.

    Now in the PT situation, if Scientologists put some muscle into this, this would end just there. That’s true. And the way it can be done is we apply more and more force there, more pressure.

    Confront the Bully and get him to get that flow of Power. You can’t deal with force with reasonableness. Otherwise the lady was good but I think she lacks the main basic knowledge of what is a Thetan.

  49. Theo Sismanides

    And in corroboration of what I wrote here is an excerpt from the PDC, I think tape 11.

    From L. Ron Hubbard, from the Philadelphia Doctorate Course, 1952.

    You know Scientology.. in a universe which knows Scientology, the
    chances of anyone’s taking away anyone’s sanity become so remote as to be ridiculous, because there’s always the raw red rebel who will say,
    “Those implants might be interesting, but are they useful really?”

    Yes, yes, you have everybody convinced they don’t know who they are,
    and that they’re somebody else, but uh.. and that’s interesting. But is it
    right? And uh.. you.. you could have.. you could have – because a dichotomy of combat can exist – you could have a great and powerful and doubtlessly awesome and fearful forces facing us with all of these threats if we dared make anybody sane.

    Yes, you could always have those forces, and they’d never be able to
    make it stick. That’s very interesting; they would not be able to make it
    stick, because they are on a track which in this universe is a self-ending
    track, not a self-perpetuating track. People recognize that, and although you will see a tremendous tendency on the part of the slave to assume his chains and wear them, and wear more chains if possible, you always have a greater number who in the end will turn on the master.

    The masters of the slaves die. They have always died in this universe
    and they always will, and so may too a universe die.

    But the point we are making is simply that force was never any weapon
    with which to combat reason. And every time force has been applied to reason in this universe force has come the cropper, not reason.
    Sooner or later the reason would go around and through because
    there’s on.. force, you see, can’t go through sixteen-foot bastions and
    barricades. You have this enormous citadel sitting on the high crown of an untouchable mount. And it is garrisoned and provisoned and watered to withstand the siege of centuries. And its garrison is well-trained and well- armed. Not a single shaft or a bolt or a lightning flash could go through that citadel.

    But by the water carrier or some other means an idea can go
    through the wall of any citadel. When you ask, “What is the strength of this garrison?” you always have to ask, “What is the loyalty of this garrison?”

    That is the other factor, and force was never able to win against it. It
    could win temporarily, oh, yes, but never completely. Now in a reaction
    against force, people quite often will assume a no responsibility for the
    whole universe. That’s going down scale from force. Want to point out to you that there’s an up scale from force. A high one, and that goes up toward the reasonable thing to do, and people, very often, who are trying to go up scale toward the reasonable thing to do will find themselves caught with specious reasoning and will find themselves dropping down toward the weak thing to do.

    Reason which is afraid of force, and reason which exists to keep
    force from hurting one is not reason. That, too, is a form of slavery. But
    reason which exists to go up from the level of force must first be able to
    confront force. Only then can such reason take responsibility for those
    things which reason alone can produce.

    And so you find a society, just before it goes out, taking its last
    effort to escape force by being reasonable, but that reasonability consists normally of an assumption of slavery of one form or another – not an assumption of freedom. They will lay upon themselves various
    restrictions and – out of fear.

    Now that man who is able to take responsibility for force, yet who
    does not employ force, is much more terrible than man who can apply force alone. And the man who applies force alone is, of course, much more terrible to a lower scale on the chart than those who can only cluster together in terror and hope that the mass of their numbers will restrain the hand of force.

    You want to remember then you’re looking at harmonics, when you’re
    looking at this on a tone scale. You’ll find groups which cohese solely
    because they are terrified of force which may be applied to thee. And in that cohesion they simply seek protection of the Individual by the group.

  50. Succinct and Profound!, Ann. Thank you. I took the liberty to use what you wrote and “re-wrapped” it a bit for clarity to both corporate Scientologists and non-Scientologists on Amazon. Here’s what I wrote:

    “Some people are trying to blur the distinction between the Church of Scientology and the independent Scientology movement. They’re trying to make them seem similar. They’re not even close to the same.

    Here is just ONE major difference between corporate Scientology and independent Scientology. Here’s what corporate Scientology does under David Miscavige’s dictatorial rule that independent Scientologists do NOT practice;

    In the “church”, you’re made to feel ashamed through incorrectly, overdone, and abusive sec(urity) checking, where “wrong” thoughts are now overts (sins). By running this BLACK Scientology, you have immediately succeeded in making the individual feel shame for his/her thoughts, and in doing so, have reduced the persons’ willingness to reach, observe, think, evaluate, decide, and to act. He is ashamed for his thoughts as abusive sec checking has “taught” him to be.

    The basis of thought stopping is to make “wrong” thought a painful event, and even a crime. Connections to those not so indoctrinated will be severed (called disconnection) as a “survival” mechanism. It has become full-blown antisocial, cultist’ behavior of “us against them” … as embodied in the church, and pinnacled at OSA.

    This is David Miscavige’s method, unwrapped.

    This is so contrary, and the direct opposite of what L. Ron Hubbard taught. Here’s what he says:

    “If you embark upon any other system that ends up in slavery or ends up in the total subjugation of individual ability to observe, ability to decide, and ability to act – if you impeded any one of those three things – you’re going to find yourself with a slave society on your hands.”

    David Miscavige has created a slave society within corporate Scientology. It is reverse Scientology, or “black” Scientology.

    Here’s also what Hubbard said;

    “Now, the basis of the individual is his ability to observe, make decisions, and to act. And that is ability: his ability to observe, to make decisions, and to act. He has to be able to inspect, and know what his is looking at. He has to be able to make a sensible summary of what he is looking at, and has to be able to act in accordance to what he’s inspected.”

    David Miscavige “thought stops” at thought, before one can observe, decide, and act. He has created a group mentality … a group valence (personality) among most corporate Scientologists, who all act blindly on his authority and fear.

    The independent Scientology movement has nothing to do with this bullshit.

    Reference for Hubbard’s quotes; Lecture by L. Ron Hubbard called “The Over-Motivator Sequence” 3 April, 1962, 620403 BC135″

    Thank you Worsel for pointing out this brilliant lecture by Hubbard!

  51. GH, this is a very surprising comment, coming from you.

    All I can say is, the first time I went exterior, the first time I saw an instant read connect with the exact thing that was bothering my preclear and then saw that unmistakeable floating needle when that thing lifted off the pc, the question you asked was answered for me with a resounding “no”.

    Whatever else was the case, whatever it was I’d invested myself in, it was definitely NOT a sham.

    A Class 8 C/S once told me that by the time he had completed that course, his certainty of the tech was so high that if LRH himself came out & said “hey boys, it was all a big joke, there’s no such thing as an engram”, his certainty would still be rock solid.

    One thing I understand very well is how those who have only read about it, or heard about it, or thought about it, could easily think it was a fraud. I don’t have any problem with them.

    But how can someone who has had even one major win wind up concluding the subject is a fraud, or BS, or a sham? I don’t get that. Maybe you can clarify a bit more, as I almost always appreciate your take on things.

  52. Mother of Grendel

    A few months ago I ran into an old friend who had just finished OT 7. I asked her for a win, and what she gave me was that she was now “always happy.” Whatever happened to or around her, she was “happy.”
    I was chilled to the bone.
    It was there and then that I decided that I would never step foot in Flag again until the tech was restored.

  53. Excellent point, GSM!

  54. Theo Sismanides

    Grasshopper, I can agree. However, let’s not go down below force but up from there. If you read what I posted by LRH in the PDCs it’s rather clear that there can be specious reasoning as to why one should not face boldly Force.

    I have made my story known about Translations HCOBs since they became my stable datum as to that Mgmt was corrupt and wouldn’t listen to a TU DIR telling them to apply the very HCOBs for this post.

    However, there is an anecdote which I would like to share to show that arguments are ok but sometimes there are NO arguments to some things. This is not to say that one should act like Miscavige. But imagine LRH arguing about the Tech. This is my point.

    So the anecdote is that when I wrote about the Translations HCOBs to ED Int I got a letter back from him acknowledging to me as the TU DIR EU that those HCOBs have not been applied and that that was correct.

    I was sooooo happy. But 3 days after I got another letter from ED Int’s office from his Communicator saying that she “omitted” by mistake a paragraph from ED Int’s response and which read something like that: That in any case ED Int’s communication was not to be taken as a permission for me to apply those HCOBs (!!!!) and (I don’t remember if that was also in his reply or just in RTC’s Report’s Officer reply of another letter) that in any case there were advices up at Int which WE couldn’t see (LOL! Hidden Data Line) and which were being followed to the letter.

    I got that second letter if I remember well when the Greek I/C TU Int, Kettie Nossis, reported to ED Int’s office that I got his answer and was about to do something with it. LOL! As if I could implement those HCOBs just by myself.

    So my point is, it’s ok to talk, it’s ok to see other viewpoints but the only viewpoint here is that we failed to confront Force (Miscavige) and the Bank that surrounds him and protects him. All that staff who ruin Scientology because of lower IQ, lower confront, lower Understanding of the Tech and Who They Really Are and who are protecting Miscavige (The Force) will not listen to arguments because they cannot.

    Yes, the Indies CAN. But the Indies need to go upscale on Force otherwise our second chance is lost and we are going to be ruining this.

  55. That is exactly what I experienced while in. It was quite a fun game to actually let myself experience emotions of all kinds, finally, after I left. Be willing to experience anything sort of idea. I even viewed it as a “study” of sorts. Oh, when he did that I felt this way. When she said that, I experienced anger. Wow, emotions I hadn’t allowed myself to experience in 12 years prior.

  56. Thanks Marty. Great post.

    I think there are two aspects to this:

    1. It is not just a matter of shutting off or not-is’ing emotions — I found that at the Int base the only tone that was considered acceptable was one of “no sympathy”. It was this almost cold, hard and minus-ARC attitude, which stems from his holiness and that RTC Code of Conduct issued in 1994. Everyone on the Int base started to emulate and copy that — as if it was the winning valence. When I returned to Australia, my husband continued that tone on a routine and regular basis. I found it very difficult to break loose from the Int base with someone constantly being so divorced from emotions and being unable to move on the tone scale. It was like having a mini DM constantly in the house. For those who have worked at the Int base they would know what I am talking about — and I consider that the RTC Reps exported this to the Advanced Orgs and out to a much broader field.

    2. The second one, was the constant separation of us and them. This was particularly bad at the Int base, but I am sure all have experienced this. A complete refusal to accept, duplicate and understand the views, emotions and situations of others. Almost a superiority complex. And as I have been studying the 9th ACC, Communication – the Solution to Entrapment, I have come to see that without pan-determinism, it is impossible to actually duplicate and understand another person, group, entity, dynamic. In fact, no two way communication is possible, and there is the road to aberration. You are a perfect example of someone who actually is Pan Determined and works to duplicate and understand others, Marty. Your blog is also a perfect example of what Corp Scientology should have been and is not. And as such, it invites participation and communication (and to that degree de-aberrates, and blows charge for people). Thanks so much for that.

  57. ThetaPotata

    Chapter 10 was very enlightening for me. Since training up to Class IV, I thought myself to be pretty good at spotting SerFacs/Computations but apparently it was so close that I didn’t see it. The whole us vs them approach that corporate Scientology forwards to it’s members is a series of Computations that get instilled (intended or not.) It is quite chilling to realize how aberrant these computations are. In fact I think it may be the main glue that keeps otherwise un-aberrated individuals “stuck” in corporate Scientology.

  58. I respectfully disagree with you EJC. Seems to me you ARE in the Truman Show, as I type.

    WHY? Because rather than perhaps learning something or AT LEAST acknowledging that Brene Brown has something to say – you appear to say she doesn’t have THAT much to say and you have MORE to say.

    The Truman Show to me isn’t just being deluded – it’s that ole — “I’m better than you. So there.”

    And as long as we cling to the “better than you” mind set — then the Truman Show will continue to be the prevailing channel.

    What I find most remarkable every day, my CERTAINTY about this or that is becoming less and less. But my WILLINGNESS to be COMFORTABLE with uncertainty is growing daily. (most of the time 🙂


  59. Theo Sismanides

    I am overposting here but I don’t want to be misunderstood. I made some comments further below. What it boils down to me, knowing a bit more than Mrs. Brown or what is her name, if you permit me to say, knowing about the existence of a thetan and a tone scale and known lower level feelings, and having served in the Sea Org for 9 years, what it boils down to me about the Corp Scientology (might even call it Corpse Scientology) and MESTcavige is that Scientologists in order to get up to the band of a Thetan as above the Homo Sap one, need to start confronting Force, whatever that may mean. LRH has written extensively on this but it looks like this is not like the ARC triangle stuff or the Comm Course. This is the very stuff that a Thetan misses in this rat race as LRH calls this society in the PDCs. But there is always a raw red rebel he says who is gonna ask: “Those implants might be interesting, but are they useful really?” Confronting Force is the key.

  60. Great video! That woman is in communication and very curious, all the way up at the CDEI scale. She’s a hacker too!

    I can’t thank you enough for this:

    “That is, when they are done as they were originally designed to be practiced. And that is, as a fun, decidedly unserious, activity.”

    When I started HQS I had no idea why I was doing the tr’s except to have fun. I had a major stable win on OT 1 – 4 the first day I was on Tr’s. I was “in” when I left the Org that day. Looking forward to returning the next day and blown out of my mind. It only took one day for me to be “in” with the Scientology. And I was hostile and antagonistic towards Scientology when I signed up the HQS course, in that I was in doubt and suspicious. Not after day 1 on the tr’s. I moved on, I went clear.

    I have seen so many arbitraries put on these tr’s. All the way up to “torture by tr’s” “clear by tr’s” “case crack by tr’s” “no good unless two hours….” blah blah blah. It’s all bullshit. It puts people OUT OF COMM to do nothing for two hours! That is OUT OF COMM not in comm! Get real! People are being coached to be out of comm! What does TIME have to do with an ability? If all circuits can be blown through tr’s we would not have the entire bridge! I don’t care to be out of comm for two hours! I do that when I sleep!

    A lot of people have been set up for losses with all of arbitraries put on tr’s.

    Not when I first came in. People did tr’s to a major stable win and then they kept on going right up to clear OT. This was BOOM TIME in Scientology.

    And speaking of tr’s, where are David Miscavige’s tr’s? Why doesn’t he speak for himself? Why can’t he confront an audience with out a teleprompter and a speech writer? Why is he slapping and beating people? Why didn’t he just call the Headley’s and clear it up? Why does he confront via an army of attorney’s and spokespeople? Why hasn’t he called Karen? Everytime a with hold gets missed he withdraws into further hiding. He does not reach except to hit or slap! His tr’s are totally out! The first most basic abilities gained on the bridge. His tr’s are totally out. And so is everyone’s around him, otherwise they would have handled him long ago.

    The woman on this video has better tr’s than David Miscavige.

  61. Li'll bit of stuff

    So true E.J..and for me personally, one of the most
    uplfting moments of any day, is that when I hear a
    genuine, cheery hello from someone, or a genuine
    ack, for something appreciated, or visa versa, when
    I can lavish sincere praise upon one of my loved
    ones, friends, or workers, and all of this, simply
    affirms to one, that they really are worthy beings,
    making the world and life, just that much better for
    their contributions in it. PURE unashamed THETA!
    Whoever has to be cynical about this, is way out
    of touch, with their basic beingness, and have
    turned their back on their capacity for love & ARC
    Moving On Up A Little Higher, includes being able
    to do so on THE TONE SCALE too, IMHO!!!

  62. Li'll bit of stuff

    You are completely heard AND understood Nanette!
    WE are, and will continue to be here, for you! OK?

  63. Wow.
    There goes that laser again… right on the spot.

  64. Great observation!

  65. Beautiful Marty, thank you for this.

    Peter Gabriel has a line,”it’s only in uncertainty that we are naked and alive”

    In my marriage my wife and I live this. I’ve realized that the true power of being a man is in embracing that vulnerability, not always knowing, not thinking always I know how to fix problems. Allowing myself to feel broken can be a precusor to getting healed.

    The interesting thing is: true accepting vulnerability leads one into direct perceiving of the nature of a thing, because the “know it all” mind stops cluttering up the issues with “I know” when in fact I don’t.

    This is truely something us men need work on IMO.

    Thank you again Marty for helping to spread the fact that others in society are coming up with beautuful research and truth.

    All cults with closed systems need to know that truth is experienced by others outside their closed systems.

    Thank you

  66. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yep, my lady, it’s all about…just being there,…and
    FULLY…living the moment—–in…PRESENT TIME!!!
    joy for those—-who can do this!!!!

  67. Nannette… thank You! 🙂
    It’s even okay to write up wins if you need to. I do! LOL

  68. I can honestly say, ten years after HQS when I did the pro tr’s course at Flag, I gained the ability to be OUT OF COMM at will. And, to be comfortably numb at will.

  69. I have to say the TR’s were one of the things that weirded me out about Scn. That is where I felt the most uncomfortable and where I “blew” course – commanding an ashtray to stand up and sit down.. yeah.. idk, it certainly didn’t feel natural to me – and “confronting” for 2 hours eyes open, no blinking.. idk I felt like I was in a trance like state looking back on it, the drills seemed to make a lot of people very robotic, not just with their acks “got it” , ” i uderstand” etc, those were commonly used as ways to shut you up, not to really help or understand & these acks & responses were directly from the TR’s & Objs / Pro Tr’s course. that’s just my experience. No HE & R was ever acceptable on staff or in real life when there were ethics handlings or mediations etc.. So to me.. it seems alot of the experiences in scn were to actually suppress human emotion & to numb us emotionally. Some say the Tr’s are actually a mind control technique… as you are more easily susceptible to “suggestion” after doing them. just another theory .. don’t go hating on me please & thanks!

  70. Patty,
    From the very beginning of my study of Dianetics and Scientology, I’ve always been able to “translate”. It was sort of a drill I did, kinda like be able to diagram out things, or find life situations where some datum existed, and all in my quest to observe the data I was being presented for myself.

    I use Scientology terms. I clear them on those I’m going to use them with, then I use them because they are so well thought out and they describe things that in many, many cases are previously NOT eescribe phenomena.

    Things like a “missed withhold”, well, that term is just so precise.

    A “service facsimile/computation”. An “ARCX”, “not-is”, “dev-t”, and on and on.

    I don’t have to shut off words, like Brene is describing in shutting off negative emotions, to rid myself of some taint, some bad choice from yesterday or some trauma I can’t as-is. Tooooooooooooooooooooo much effort.

    Fuck it. Life is ridiculously good, are we chillin’? (That’s “have we achieved some modicum of duplication in a comm cycle.)

  71. Tom Gallagher

    Thanks Marty for another shot of curative antidote to ‘Inc. Think'(tm).

    Ms. Brown could teach a thing or two to the POB Corporatists IF they’d find the capacity to pull their heads out of their asses, both collectively and individually. Ain’t going to happen though……….

    That might upset that “IAS (i am stupid) Status” thingy.

    Deep Ugh………

  72. LFBD +66 .

  73. Ann,
    Not ONLY do you have incredible legs, you’re smart too 🙂

  74. “…a hell of a lot of ‘Scientologists’ both on and off staff, have no real understanding of the subject…”

    Couldn’t agree with you more Publius. And excellent overall post.

  75. Theo Sismanides

    E.J. I agree. My wins in the S.O. were so great that I was not afraid to say what I observed and what I observed was the Mgmt was corrupted and couldn’t or wouldn’t (or shouldn’t? because of Mestcavige?) apply HCOBs. I saw people in fear but I was so up there (lol) that I didn’t care.

    Makes a nice pun

    Being Up There, Makes You Not Care!

    I was self determined and I was placing my thoughts, my voice, my attitudes (which abided by Standard Tech) in space and time. I had decompressed already and inside that Corpse. I left with my head looking up as I had it nailed down because of my stable datum, the HCOBs, that the higher echelons were corrupt. When I got to find out Marty and Mike and others got out and started talking, I felt big relief. It is all coming back together now in a fast pace. Yes, we can now speak freely and openly in Scientology the true Scientology which is right here. The days of tyranny are over.

  76. When you can walk through the streets of Jamaica Queens at 4:00 a.m. knowing you will arrive at your apartment from the subway, your tr’s are in.

    If you can’t cross the street in Clearwater Florida in broad day light without two escorts your tr’s are not in. I don’t care what uniform you are wearing and who gave you a video pass!

  77. Here’s my take on what GH said — s/he didn’t say he came away after ASKING the tough question — IS LRH/Scientology a fraud with an answer YES.

    He said he asked the question. THIS is what is important. To question.

    Not be rock solid and unable to ask such a potentially blasphemous question.

    It’s far far healthier to question your own beliefs than to form a solid wall of certainty AND stable datum can and will be shaken as you walk through life.

    IF we had all asked the tough questions early on — wait one minute THIS doesn’t seem like what Ron is saying —-

    The finance police, the Mission Network take down, the no children in the SO — the endless list —

    Perhaps we’d be writing on a different blog.


  78. Great find, Safe (and Worsel). Thanks!

  79. Theo Sismanides

    Hahaha, thanks for sharing that OT “win”. Hahaha, that was good!

  80. Pub,
    But GH’s question is one of those that in the push, pull, bang, crash hit the brick wall, get the shit kicked out of you, LIVE type of lives, that one needs to ask, if the need arises.

    When I got declared, my life smashed, with pretty much the shirt on my back and some very good parents willing to let me stay in the attic room and lick my deep wounds, I found myself in an excrutiating turmoil. I asked myself every question, including “was this all bullshit?”

    My answer, was similar to yours: yes, I HAVE gone ext, I have seen that needle float and ARC restored on pulling a MWH. I have seen the Introspection RD HANDLE a psychotic break and restore the person themselves. I have run Dianetic chains, on all flows, on others, myself and seen others run them on others and witnessed the miracles of erasure. I could see for myself my own and others experiences of the body of work.

    I understand GH’s comment.

  81. Hey, YOU have great legs and are smart too!!! Hmmm. You wanna go to a movie or something? Later on. After post or something? Hmmm?

  82. Gypsy,
    The background theory and fundamental material for the Training Routines is in the 9th ACC, which itself is a full explanation of Dianetics 55, the “manual” of communication. Comm is the universal solvent as explained in these materials. TRs, fully, honestly done, with a Major Stable Win on OT TRO, and a TRO really DONE, a good “some hours” being there, comfortably, and Bullbait done thorgouhly, well, the world begins…

  83. Excellent analysis! This way of thinking and acting filtered down even to the lowest levels of our mission, particularly from the OTs who were closest to David Miscavige in one way or another.
    I agree 100% about this blog.

  84. Here’s a test. Watch something and let it stand alone without comparing it TO scientology. Just watch and SEE if someone might have something intelligent to say.

    Or read something. Or hear something.

    IF you always read, hear, say something filtered through the lens of YOUR understanding of scientology you just might miss something.

    I spent the first 3 years studying buddhism by comparing it to scientology or MY understanding of scientology.

    I let all of that go and for the next few years all was OK UNTIL Marty’s blog when I would speak buddhism and he would remind me that what I said aligned to some scientology/LRH datum that I obviously didn’t get. Or at least had certainly not seen it that way.

    Now, I’m questioning many things within the buddhist lineage that I had chosen and had been so COMPLETELY certain of.

    In other words — when you see the buddha walking along the road, kill him.
    (an old Zen buddhist koan).

    Meaning — kill what YOU think is the buddha, what YOU think is enlightenment and just keep practicing/studying.

    And you really can’t study anything if you are sure you know all about it.

    Can you?

  85. Hey Tom,
    All I can say is WOW. That is quite remarkable.

  86. Truth!

  87. Facing force and the willingness to use force is fine. But you don’t need to use force in order to handle force. You’ll wind up with a ridge in most cases.
    I guarantee you.
    You may need to use force sometimes. OK, use it. Your willingness should be there. But I think you’ll be better off with reason. Use a clear, constant theta flow. Force is waste. Look at Miniscavige. Force is not a solution, let alone an optimum one.

  88. Mike Hobson

    Certain psychiatric medications produce “always happy” and cost a helluvalot less than completing OT 7 in the Church of Black Scientology. Yuck!!!

    Comfortably Numb is more like it, I’ll wager:

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  89. Great video. I LOL’ed when she said she had to have a therapists’ therapist. An auditor could be that. Could. Should have been. Should be.
    It’s really true, when you supress emotions of any sort, you have to suppress them all – the real ones. Amazing when you can just feel them, experience them, they just are what they are.

  90. Hi GypsyGirl,

    Of all the things that the current CoS can get wrong and flip upside down, TRs has got to be top of the list, in my opinion. Just the sheer amount of weird explanations I heard in course rooms is … I dunno, I can’t describe how wrongly I saw them being applied.

    So I’m not surprised they freaked you out if you did your first TR course in the last few years.

    The real secret to doing TRs properly is to read and understand the basic books on communication first, like Dianetics 55! and the proper Bulletins that describe what it’s all about. Then it all makes sense. But if people make you do the drills without letting you get the full explanation, then yeah, I can understand how TRs would make no sense at all.

    The drills are each one practice in one single part of the Communication Formula, and any teacher knows that when people study something practical it worst best if you develop one skill at a time. That’s why TRs are laid out the way they are.

    And no, you’re not supposed to go around lifting ashtrays all day when finished either 🙂 But like everything else RCS touches, this too has been twisted beyond belief into something else.

    To end off on a positive note, at least you could communicate here how you felt and got an honest reply that wasn’t intended to rip your head off 🙂 Communication is good, I recommend you do lots of it!


  91. One of the things that struck me while watching her talk about “certainty”, was how often that button “certainty” is used in Scn promo. Such as “regain certainty of self”,or “become certain of your skills as a GAT auditor,” etc.

    One of the important side benefits of learning and perfecting TRs is to allow a person to audit another, despite the potential for restimulation and upset in auditor. Indeed, this experience of willfully setting aside one’s own case is a new and exciting experience that makes new people want to learn more Scn.

    However, the phrase, “get your TRs in” can be used to begin to numb people to what they are feeling, expressing, etc., when used out of the auditing context. Usually used in a condescending or scolding manner, this usually snaps the person into suppressing whatever they might be noisily expressing. It makes it an overt to express emotion.

    While “having your TRs in” is vital when auditing another, too often it is used out of that context to invalidate and control others. No wonder RCS people are so hungry for certainty.

  92. I can understand – but by opening the door WIDE, I can ensure I am seeing all in context.

    One thing to think about is: My Christian friends are incredibly certain that Jesus is their savior, that He will come back to lead the Kingdom of God, and that he did indeed, for a fact, rise from the dead on Easter. I can ask my Mormon friends about the plates that Joseph Smith found and translated – they even have first person testimonials in the Book of Mormon of followers who saw the plates with their own eyes. They are certain that Jesus came to the Americas and spread his wisdom. They are certain of this. Atheists are very certain there is no “God” and that all is MEST. They like to tell the story that they can’t prove a toaster is not orbiting Saturn, but it is extremely unlikely, as their “proof” that God does not exist.

    So being certain of something does not necessarily mean it is true. It may mean that your certainty is based on some underlying datum that is incorrect that is taken as a very stable stable datum. Shake the certainty and reestablish it, aligning it anew with new data that comes in. making your certainty and knowledge more complete (and more accurate).

    Asking the “BS” question is an attempt to wipe away all the known and unknown stable data, and an attempt to revisit Scientology in a new unit of time.

    By asking the “BS” question, some things immediately pop up in my head:

    1. My first session when I was 8 years old when my mom ran out the death of my cat, and it was completely handled.
    2. When I went blazingly exterior and in PT on Op Pro by Dup when I was 13.
    3. When I lost my color blindness when I was 15.
    4. Pretty much all of my grades – especially grades III and IV.
    5. When I had a major withhold missed, and I exhibited classic Missed Withhold phenomena, only to find out later in Class II training that I was so freaking obvious that a dead man could have seen it.
    6. Study tech, and the fact that I managed a professional career without a college degree because I groked study tech, and did Op Pro by Dup at a young age, and so study is NOT a problem. This is a good thing in the tech industry when 80% of your entire knowledge set goes obsolete in about 3-5 years. In a 30 year career, you learn and replace 95% of all you ever knew.
    7. Out int – the phenomena surrounding out int, and the handling that goes along with it. When I went out int, I took the entire shop I was working with with me. My co-worker told me she felt “strange and spacy” for some reason – no drugs involved – and it cleared up that evening when I got it handled.
    8. TRs – awesome tools.
    9. Metering. I know (as you do) that the meter works as Ron advertised, but as the warning label says “By itself, the meter does nothing.” That is very true.

    BUT the BS question opens up the chaff of Scn, too, or what Corporate Scn pushes as Scn. Such as:

    A. You get a cold, you are connected to an SP. This is technically true, but it is almost worthless. You are on planet earth, in a meat body. You are ipso facto PTS to that degree. Bodies are subject to illness. To be completely free of body illness, you need to be completely free from the body. Ron gets it, but try to tell that to an MAA when you are routed there when you show up to course with a cold.
    B. That Comm Evs are the best form of justice. I have never seen a sane comm ev, or a sane B of I, for that matter.
    C. That HCO knows enough to truly label an SP. The whole idea of institutionalizing the declarations of SPs is BS.
    D. The SO – started out nobly, but ended up as a divisive group where people give up all their dynamics to forward Dynamic 3 (not even the 4th dynamic!).
    E. That “policy” is the only way to run a business.
    F. That you cannot sue a Scientologist for screwing you, but have to resort to “WISE.”
    G. That you are necessarily PTS when you bump up against an SP.

    [I can hear screeching: “That’s not Scientology!” and you are right – but you had to think to get there, which is my point]

    The trick is this: When you challenge Ron, you find out the context, and you see what is REALLY true as you use and apply the data. In corporate Scn, you have a sea of robots who unquestioningly “do what Ron says” – but they don’t. They do what someone tells them Ron said, out of context and incomplete, mixed with what DM says to do, mixed with what they always did at their local mission or church.

    I am saying, Tabla Raza. Don’t assume anything, and continually create what you know and can be certain of.

  93. Speakin’ o’ TRs, this takes some confront…

  94. Ditto, Tony. It my be hard to confront for some, but Scientology is not complete, and it is not finished. Talks like this help to expand our understanding of what it means to be alive, to be “Human” – to me being a being and being a human are almost identical. It also lets us know that we are not the only smart ones in the room, and that it is boorish to just dismiss someone because that are a psychologist or sociologist or neurologist (or a Baptist for that matter 😉 )

  95. There is a thin line between “always happy” and “always theetie-weetie”.

    Not that I agree with the adage “if you are not outraged you are not informed” – but living means being able to duplicate the world and communicate with people, and that means experiencing things that are positive, and things that are negative. This talk was awesome, as it points this out.

  96. Michael Fairman

    What is so wonderful about Ms. Brown’s talk, is that it is yet another path to understanding. When the blinders come off, the many paths become visible and exhilarate.

  97. I dig what you are saying about 2 hour confronts, but done right, you are not out of comm. A thetan can do anything forever, and if an auditor cannot sit there and confront someone for two hours, they cannot run a session.

  98. There is no auditor “doing nothing but being there” for two hours. An auditor is listening, asking questions, and taking notes. And I don’t want to tell you what kind of thetan is doing “nothing but being there” “forever” but it ain’t me Babe. And I don’t believe a thetan can do anything forever. That is an absolute.

  99. I am assuming that you are still interested in Scientology because you are posting here. You had some bad coaching on TRs. To understand the TRs, listen to an LRH demo session. Listen to how natural he is when auditing the PC. Notice how “there” he is, how friendly he is, but also, how he guides the PC through the process. It is not a bull session, it is an auditing session, but it is as relaxed as an afternoon tea.

    Doing TRs in ANY other way is not Scientology.

    [Marty: I hope I am not posting dups here. I have been getting posting errors on some of my posts for some reason. If you see dups, I apologize!]

  100. It can’t even be proven since forever has no end. A cycle of action means, start, change, STOP. “DO” and in “do anything forever”, is a verb, an action word, a cycle of ACTION. “do anything forever” = an incomplete cycle of action. Incomplete cycles of action make people crazy.

  101. “Getting your TRs in” is such a misunderstood activity. I am sure you have seen “Saving Private Ryan.” The scene of the valiant men taking the beach on D-Day is one of the most intense things I have EVER seen on film, and it affected me greatly. Imagine being in that situation – of being an a Higgins boat, being dumped X meters from shore, under intense fire, seeing your comrades getting chopped up left, right, and center. Now imagine what it takes to get through it. It takes cussing TRs. It takes focus, razor-sharp intention, purpose, and drive, to GET THROUGH IT.

    The TRs are about becoming an auditor, and GETTING THE PC THROUGH IT – despite your own queasiness.

    During the session, you HAVE to keep it together. You cannot blubber like a baby, or run away, or let the situation control you. You HAVE to get it done.

    I am not exaggerating when I say that if you red tag a PC, you put him or her in danger. If someone comes out of session with attention still stuck on some god-awful incident, they can (and have) get into car accidents, get sick, and die. Sounds dramatic, but I have seen it happen, even the death part – a friend of mine red tagged on an OT III remedy session, and promptly got hit by a car. Accident, sure, but would not have happened if he was in PT and bright.

    The auditor HAS to be there, and confront, and get the PC through it. Hence the TRs.

    This intensity, however, does not translate to everyday activities, such as getting coffee at Starbucks. Yet, you sure see a lot of Scientologists who act that way…

  102. I agree with you Oracle.
    I also think that this huge “perfection” thing run on auditors is weird too. I think someone could almost jump right in and start auditing and help someone if they were suprvised as in a co-audit.
    I think the idea should be to make auditing look appealing and make it fun and intersting instead of grim and dangerous and you will be declared an SP if you miss an F/N…

  103. Christine,

    One of my larger cognitions since leaving the Church resulted in a complete turnabout on the subject of Certainty. Inside the Truman Show, it seems that being certain is considered more valuable than being accurate or effective, and to a large degree I bought into that.

    I’ve since come to regard Certainty, and the thought-stopping that comes with it, as the main barrier to continued growth as a being. I still have confidence in my abilities in many areas, but I find myself seeking out the uncertainties as marking the boundaries for further exploration, and I gotta say, it’s fun.

    It sounds like you are of a similar mind.

  104. Very true about the valence of the RTC Reps at the AO’s. There was a very nice one named Francine something at the Sandcastle sometime in the early 1990’s, but a few years later the psychobitch Marina Pezzotti appeared, who acted like a Gestapo officer on crack.

  105. Bingo.

    “You are asked to examine the subject of Scientology on a critical basis—a very critical basis.“
    – L. Ron Hubbard, “How to Study Scientology” (Ability Magazine, Feb 1959).

  106. Oracle – there is no time. This is the point.

    (BTW, I am tempted to say “there is no spoon” ala The Matrix. Is your handle from there, or…?)

  107. I get what you are saying, but it is really, really basic for an auditor to be able to easily do a 2 hour confront. I have done a number of them, and only the “blinkless” one was truly an ordeal.

  108. gypsygirl,

    That is in stark contrast to my experience of doing TR0 in the 1970s. One of the bullbaiters I had was reputed to be a very good hypnotist, and one day he spent quite a long time baiting me with an induction routine, trying to “put me under”.

    He grudgingly admitted he was surprised that he could not.

    Some of the greatest Eastern wisdom traditions teach that humans to some degree spend our lives entranced, not perceiving the true reality; their practices of meditation and contemplation are designed to help a person to “wake up”. Thus Buddha, “the Awakened One”.

    I feel Scientology is squarely in that line of work; however in the course of doing TRs, for example, one can restimulate pre-existing hypnotism before it boils off and leaves one more aware than before. That would be the wrong time to stop doing the exercise! One needs to push through that to a “win”. Of course if the Course Supervisors and student/coaches are not aware of this, it can fail to be done. I place that situation in the category of “failure to complete a cycle of action”, a kind of “bad auditing”.

  109. gypsygirl95,

    Common sense is necessary in every walk of life. The most basic thing on handling a pc is paralleling the pcs mind,
    observing gradients, and handling things with the pc that they are
    interested in handling. Like LRH says, if you are in comm with the pc
    you can do something for them, if not you can only do something to them.

    If a person can not confront the public enough to find out what is wanted and needed, or communicate or use common sense to see what will benefit the student / P.C., the student / P.C. is just going to be set up for losses.

    If the tr’s course does not parallel the p.c.’s mind the p.c. / student will be set up for a loss.

    You don’t need cramming, inval, or eval on that. If it did not fly with you on some level it did not parallel your mind at that time. Someone not too bright herded you over there because they preferred to let others think for them, or because they just did not care enough about you to find out what was the right remedy to offer you at that time.

  110. ” you are not out of comm…” Oh yes you are if you are on OTTRO. Your sight is cut off. Vision is communication. If you are on TRO your mouth is shut.

    What the hell, for real?

    When I shut my mouth and there is NO TWO WAY comm between me and anyone else, I have gone out of comm. The drill says “be there comfortably”. I can do that. I did do that. I did it for hours and hours to get two twins through. But I knew I was out of comm! Who the hell can’t be there comfortably when you are totally out of comm? What’s to bother you? Do you see people driving with their eyes shut? How do you think that would go? Do you see people working during the day with their mouth shut if they have to coordinate thereby and therewith? When I first did the tr’s, it put me IN COMM. I did them to a major stable win.
    Yes, it was very therapudic.

    I wasn’t even supposed to do the por tr’s course when I did it. I was in the non interference zone. The reg lied to me when I was routing out and told me the C/S ordered me to it before I left the base. I found out when I was done and routing back out (again) he lied to me, it was a stat push.

  111. I’m down with using LRH’s lingo, AND I sometimes like to put what he meant in other terms, too. As in Fundamentals of Thought, which was meant for translation into other languages, some words have several words in parenthesis after them, with the same or similar meaning.

    The word “tech” I believe is much misunderstood by the hoi polloi, so I have been using the word “applications” instead.

    (Does this post require a glossary at the end of it?)

  112. You got a date! Your place or mine?

  113. And you can see here how crippling indoctrination can be. You clearly stated the tr’s were not for you. What have you gotten back in terms of feedback? What about their tr’s?

  114. martyrathbun09


  115. mrinder,

    Might not this post of Marty’s have been titled “The Origins of Pie Face”? 🙂

  116. I love the old time “squirrels” mostly, for their freedom to just be themselves and not be all spazzed out worried about the “ethics penalties.”

    The whole era of Scientologists who just joked and kidded and used all types of lingo, the old “Aberee” magazine columns are what’s gotten beaten fully out of Scientology.

    As crazy as Mary Marin Freedman might be to some, she to me, she and Phil Spickler, some of the things they say, just seem the spirit that got long ago squashed out of Scientology.

    I think the admin rules just crept up on everyone and it’s not just DM’s fault, it’s a whole long accumulation, the mid 1960s, Marty, you even spoke of this in your book.

    Anyways, what a whole different scene today where so many ex members and continuing Scientologists can chat!

    Thanks Marty again for going and staying public.


  118. We are going to have to get real good at exteriorization, as it is quite a distance between Australia and Canada. Or maybe you could hurry up and complete some cycles… 🙂

  119. Marty,

    I feel this is one of your greatest posts!

    Without Emotion, there is no Motion. Without motion, there is no LIfe.

    In psychology, the state of chronically stopped thought and stopped emotion is called “dissociation”:

    “Dissociation is a term in psychology describing a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from one’s
    immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from one’s physical and emotional reality. It is commonly
    displayed on a continuum. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment
    from reality – but not a loss of reality as in psychosis.”

    Please note that this is NOT “exteriorization”, as some critics like to assert. Dissociation always involves less awareness and less.perception.

  120. I have NO idea why anyone would continue to push an item on you that is not yours. And I am not even trained to audit people. Why anyone would sit here and continue to PUSH tr’s on someone who said, “I have to say the TR’s were one of the things that weirded me out about Scn.” I can not explain. This is what happens when people are indoctrinated and can not connect the dots.

  121. Ugh! on reading everything in italics!

  122. This is what happens when the policy becomes senior to the person you are supposed to be helping. And, that is off purpose with the tech. And that does blow people off the bridge and it is a huge dis service to people, not a benefit. And the people are viewed as if there is something wrong with them because they do not align with the policy or the tech. And this is a major WHY in the decline of Scientology.

  123. I am completing cycles. I got power in, my internet hooked up, the water barrels set up, eavestroughs feeding them (if we ever get some good rain!!!), my land bulldozed to open it up, and next week I start on the foundation. So there. Soon, delivery up here in Cape Breton!!! Well, pretty soon, as I still have to build the house 🙂

  124. Yes, absolutely — Marty’s book is a must read. I’m on the last few pages, having reread parts of it, discussed some parts with others, and given myself time to reflect and digest. I plan to put a review on Amazon sometime soon. Thank you Marty for giving a meaningful gift that lives up to its title and even more.

  125. Get a grip. TRs are fundamental. Done exactly per the HCOBs, with no BS arbitraries, they are basic to success in life, not just auditing. The HCOB on TRs is clear. Do them per the HCOB and you get the results. I have NO idea WTF you did, but this nonsense about TRs is just that.

  126. Very important comments!

    thanks so much.

    What I noticed, over the years, there is a whole history of the “right attitude” to be expressed by the “top” people (who learn they are the “top” people).

    Unfortunately, LRH was all over the map on causing this, I feel, but for sure DM was just outrageously a total creep asshole presuming he was the one to set the “top” clique.

    I never accepted it, but I also never got even close to “being on COB’s lines”, but I would have rejected it, and when Gerda Herrera audited me, and the first Sec Check question she asked me was:

    “Has COB missed a withhold on you?”

    I knew DM had gone off his rocker.

    The old question that was asked when LRH was alive, back at the Flag Landbase, when LRH’s traffic was still coming down to the Commodore’s Staff Aides and to Flag Bu execs, if you really were being CI and bad, the question asked, if you were blocking some LRH orders, used to be:

    “Has LRH missed a withhold on you?’

    So, to me, coming from that earlier era, and then living into the DM era, seeing DM, the pipsqueek who didn’t now shit from shinola about LRH’s years building up the whole movement, I mean for DM to have his RTC Sec Checkers, Gerda Hererra, asking the “Has COB missed a withhold on you?” question is just something that permanently skewed me into disaffection with DM.

    The cliques of the two eras, rather 3 eras of RTC staffers (first era with Steve Marlowe, Laura Marlowe, BEFORE Vicki Aznaran even, that first era due to having Laura in it, I could somewhat be emotionally okay with, but Steve Marlowe quickly went out of valance, in my opinion, into DM’s vicious bully asshole wise ass valance, so even that first generation of RTC was foul in my view.)

    The second generation RTC, the bloated one of “unqualified” people, later determined (these out qualifications condemnation fads, to me were also ludicrous, but HCO out quals and bad recruitment is always the convenient scapegoating tactic, it’s a given, if you have watched Sea Org history, and actually think about it all, sadly, or not maybe the ridiculousness absurdity of how people were rejected and busted and demoted is a good thing, it allowed a lot to get the fuck OUT all through the years, at least).

    God, thanks so much Lana for broaching and saying what I absolutely think you nailed spot on.

    But I’d put it in a longer range even more complex set of recurring patterns.

    To me, the HCO people who followed DM’s orders snootily demoted and busting the people DM’s whims targeted, to me this is really some of the insider history that needs sharing.

    Just so many “unqualified” people who slipped “up the org board”, only to be discovered as HCO (HR) screwups.

    The RTC top clique rubbed anyone of the older generation the wrong way, and others like the Starkey’s who slipped into ASI, dodged that elitism their own way, but they also fell to DM’s domineering, but Maria sided with DM against Norman, I watched, as Norman finally fell from his cushy job in ASI, and Maria and Norman fell back into the top clique personnel pool.

    I’d like a layout of Norman’s staff career, since his busting from ASI, that’d be interesting to know.

    Also Greg Wilhere’s recent career.

  127. Excuse me for interrupting your comm cycle with your circuits, but this drivel on TRs is a load of hogwash. Parallel the pc’s mind? TRs are TRAINING ROUTINES.

  128. I had no intention of making sense to you.

  129. Tom,

    Wow. Great find. A MUST SEE!!

  130. Thank you for the excellent clarifications. I get it now. Your first comment just did not come across to me as these last 2 do. Your MO sounds the same as mine. Question everything. Challenge everything. Make sure you have looked at it from all sides. Don’t be afraid to read anything. That is why I have prided myself on reading pretty much every critical book or magazine or newspaper article I was aware of, as well as watching whatever came up on TV – for going on 44 years now. Including, for example, the Paulette Cooper book, the Corydon book, among many others.

    I didn’t bother much with the natter boards because for the most part, there was no real analysis that could provide food for thought. It’s pretty clear when someone is just trying to tear something down because they don’t understand it and don’t care to – or more likely, don’t dare to – take the time to look for themselves.

    Exposing myself to these challenges was maybe my way of testing my own conclusions – and they all withstood the challenges and became stronger as a result.

    I’ve even tried to figure out an alternative explanation for going exterior – really loved one I read on a flyer promoting some psychiatrist event at a major university – something along the lines of “supposed ‘out of body’ experiences are caused by neurons wildly flashing in the back of the brain when the body is under major stress as when just before death”.

    I don’t know, none of these “explanations” seemed to comport with what I had observed with my own (theta) eyes.

    My opinion is, by telling people what they can and cannot read, what they can and cannot look at, or talk about (except on a sec check), one (DM) is just showing how shallow is HIS belief – in himself, in other Scientologists, and in the tech itself.

    And again, thanks for your followup comments & giving me a chance to more fully duplicate your viewpoint.

  131. What’s your nearest town in Cape Breton, Jim?

  132. Jean-François Genest

    Yes. Good correlations for sure.

  133. Jean-François Genest

    Bravo Jim !

  134. Thanksfor that Nanette!
    I just love hearing true feelings and not PR.
    I think the hole idea of Scientology was to Move people up a little higher and sometimes a great deal higher.
    Having said that, I think it is fine no matter where a person is at on the tone scale at any given time.
    Thanks for sharing. It is a whole lot more interesting than the normal PR.

  135. Gh,
    One thing for sure is that to NOT communicate your thoughts and ideas IS the wrong thing to do. It is good to be able to discuss and analyse.
    I always appreciate your thoughts.

  136. Then why use the word “forever”, which is a time qualifier? If you believe there is no time. I believe there is time, because we have created time.

  137. There is no such thing as a perfect auditor. This is an unattainable goal thrust upon people by David Miscavige.

  138. smash smash stop stop whatever….

  139. It was interesting. The language was different than what we’ve been trained in as Scientologists, but not that different. In the corp C of $ there is a definite emotional shut off, calling it all misemotion. If someone gets badly hurt it would make sense to go into action and feel fear, even though one is taking action. Your heart pounds, you’re moving, handling the situation. To stand there like a statue and eat an apple, then handle tje situation would be insane. Just shutting off emotion, not-ising it.
    As a comment, I have had several people in my family who were therapists and social workers. I was hounded constantly with security questions when I last saw them, what was said, where were we, etc. Only one family member was rabidly anti Scn. Another encouraged me to do Dianetics after a year of psychoanalysis that wasn’t working (random “technology”–psych repair list was appropriate here and handled the out-lists), but that family member who was kind, said to not be afraid of feeling emotion and it was ok to feel vulnerable,was the one who encouraged me to do Dianetics. He said he read the book in the 1950’s and it was great.
    This idea that only Scientology, Dianetics, etc. is the only way is ridiculous. Maybe it is the most workable but that does not discount workability of other therapies that do work. You can’t understand the workability of Scn and Dn without understanding other philosophies, religions, psychotherapies that have validity to them.

  140. I was all the way up at the CDEI scale one time too – but I fell off the top and landed in the DEI scale.

  141. I love you man! 🙂 Maybe someday she’ll get coached by someone who knows what he is doing.

  142. If you are ever in Oregon, look me up. Really, TRs are a pleasure.

  143. There is a TR DEBUG ASSESSMENT list.

    One would at LEAST have the mercy to offer this as a remedy before slapping someone down and back into the chair to continue on with tr’s when clearly not doing well, if NOTHING else. Chanting about the HCOB’s on tr’s is not part of any remedy for someone having losses on TR’s. Suggesting possible items that do not come from the student / P.C. only add items to an out list.

  144. I agree with you on that!

  145. By the way, #2. On the TR Debug assessment list is WAS A WRONG ITEM GIVEN TO YOU? And if this reads it must be indicated and then the folder gets sent to THE C/S. Not the DofP. The C/S. Yes, students on the tr’s course become P.C.’s when not doing well, and are put under the wings of an auditor and a C/S. Someone B.I.’s on TR’s becomes a P.C..

  146. LOL !!! Sounds like another day in Wal Mart!!

  147. threefeetback

    Properly done ‘Key to Life’ and ‘Life Orientation’ by real deal Scientologists would resolve many of these ‘crashing misunderstoods’; such as ‘case on post’, etc.

  148. threefeetback

    David has been hobby horsing the post of International Landlord for over 20 years. His statistic is horrendous if your figure his costs per square foot, including his dismantling of the workability and momentum of the subject of Scientology.

  149. Hi – Have any of you seen this recent Forbes article about the legal possibilites of Independent Scientologists challenging the CoS IRS exemption? Do Indies believe the CoS should or shouldn’t have religious tax exemption? 🙂 peace

  150. E.J. Croughs

    Being Up There, Makes You Not Care!
    Love it! And it happens to be Tech.
    I went the same route as you did. I had already concluded I shouldn’t be in the Church over 12 years ago. But that left me with a vacuum and that was finally filled by Marty, Mike, Steve and all the others. My life started to pick up the moment I left and accelerated when the vacuum got filled.

  151. “I spent the first 3 years studying buddhism by comparing it to scientology or MY understanding of scientology.”

    I have similar experience. I made comparisons for about five years. Gradually the Scientology faded away and was replaced.

    George M. White

  152. E.J. Croughs

    It’s fine and actually good to disagree and think things over and do so selfdeterminedly. O.K, Brene has something to say, only I have my own opinions and conclusions on the subject and they don’t fully agree with hers.

    You’re on the right track as allowing inspection at the risk of losing (wrong) stable data, opens the door to increased awareness and that is in the end very good for your certainty.

  153. Thank you Oracle for all your ranting lol .. I loved it ! I love that we can all have these different viewpoints and for the most part – still have civil conversations. looking back on things – I can see the usefullness of TR’s being purposed for auditor trng, but I still think some of them are extreme & weird. I personally think counselors who have no “training routines” manage just fine with their clients and get great results as well w/out drugging. Just talking to someone about your problems is therapy and being human & being willing to listen is all that’s required for helping someone. Regardlesss – I also definately see your point on the level of indoctrination in some people, & i’m not saying this about anyone who also commented above- just sayin in general. Back in early 90’s and throughout my scn “career” I felt like it must be me, I must really not be that smart, cause i’m just not getting a lot of this stuff – like I didn’t have that desire to run up the bridge like most scn’s & so it seemed as though scn’s would look down upon me to a degree – alot of them had that underlying hint of “their better than me” cause they were auditing or studying daily lol I didn’t care for that snobbish know besty attitude a lot of scn’s put out there.just cause I wasn’t into it like they were or wasn’t getting the kind of wins I “shoiuld” have been. Don’t get me wrong -alot of the beginning courses I got alot out of ..after that though – I didn’t have much interest – even to this day. I guess i wasn’t willing to give up my life and my time with my kids & all my money(as if i had a lot of that) just to go up the bridge – especially when I would see OT 7’s & 8’s who seemed to be more screwed up then me lol.

  154. Li'll bit of stuff

    TO. I’d just like to indicate that SOMEONE
    fucked up disgustingly in putting you onto
    TR’s when you were in the non interference
    No wonder you feel as you do! Ron called
    it the N / I Zone just to prevent that sort of
    restim ever taking place. I’m surprised no
    one posting picked up on that out point?

    You have also,actually made some very
    telling originations, none of which were
    acknowledged, so I now thank you, T.O.,
    for all your comm, on this topic!
    I understand what you went through!

    In addition, you are absolutely correct!
    The tech IS only about helping the
    person in front of one, The drills, etc.
    are simply TRAINING tools meant to
    give a person the confidence to do
    something, on an gradient scale.

    Imagine the results of teaching a little
    toddler, “potty – training” if it was laced
    with the situation you described above.
    I can assure you this, from what you’ve
    described here, you definitely were
    NOT given properly supervised TR’s!!

    The positives about this story? just as
    Valkov, myself, and many others have
    testified, TR’s, when appropriately,and
    correctly done, give almost miraculous
    results, and can make a totally green
    person a Scientologist for LIFE.

    BTW, the original comm comm course
    was called , the H.A.S.course.
    (Hubbard Apprentice Scientologist) for
    the sole purpose of training Auditors,
    in their most fundamental of tools, those making up COMMUNICATION!!!

    ML, Calvin.p.s. shoot me an e-mail.

  155. One of the two rules for a happy living: ‘Be willing to experience anything …’

  156. Good for you!

  157. My thoughts on your (understandable) question at this moment are that, even if it is true that Hubbard did strange things, conned some people, whatever, the original Scientology philosophy and its applications can still be right! One does not neccesarily exclude the other! Lots of artists, writers, philosphers were weird people in their private lives, but nevertheless made works of great arts, masterpieces.
    And in the end, what is true for you …

  158. Under Radar

    Yes haven’t figured that one out, how to be up there and
    down here at the same time. (The old monk syndrome, I guess…)
    But, what a beautiful lady, what a storyteller !
    Thanks for bringing her in, Marty. Thanks for your great book!
    You may go down in history as the man who brought
    Scientology (and with it Scientologists) back into the world.

  159. It is a remarkable documentary, if a little scary. Scary because it shows just how easy it is to control people without their knowing by means of suggestive commands and NLP techniques. There is an English illusionist called Derren Brown who has done many programmes and shows about this – he is quite open about it and even shows you HOW he does what he does. In one he takes a losing betting slip at the dog races and slaps it on the counter. He looks at the cashier right in the eye and says, Tone 40 if you will, “THIS is the winning ticket.” Cashier immediately thinks she must have made a mistake and pays out. Unethical sales people use NLP all the time in their pitches. The last Labour Government in the UK were notorious users of suggestion and misdirection. The frittering away of our country’s wealth wasn’t called pissing money away, it was always called “investing”. “Investing” is a warm cuddly word that gives the idea of careful use of finance to an altruistic end, etc etc.

    One of the recurring thoughts I have had about this as it directly applies to ex-Churchies like myself is: Yes, it’s a good idea to stop using the lingo and cult phraseology. And yet… to what degree are the alternate phrases and words chosen “suggestive” in a different way. We are ALL, like it or not, condtioned from birth in many ways. Words mean what they mean basically because Mum and Dad say they mean it. Racists invariably have racist parents, etc. We have all at one time or another, seen Coke on the shelf next to another cola at half the price but bought the Coke anyway, even though it is EXACTLY the same product. Why? Because somewhere in our psyche we believe it is “the real thing” or something we’ve been commanded.

    I believe the end result of progress in Scientology was INTENDED to be the complete UN-conditioning of the individual. What I struggle with is how can this be possible when there are so many powerful comands embedded in the core of the subject that tell us it is “the only way out”, or the only faintest chance..”, and the classic “your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years…”

  160. Of all the folk who bring a lot to this table for us to dine on, you are right up there. Your thoughts are always welcome to me, and I totally get where you are coming from. I have also gone out of my way to read ALL the stuff about the subject, the good, bad and the ugly. It has been all part of the healing for me, and it goes on. I know I have a long way to go.

  161. very apropos clip from a great album.

  162. This video answered for me why I’ve been stuck as a writer lately. There’s just been a lot of frustrating stuff going on and I had no place to safely let off that steam.

    After starting up a private journal on my computer, I feel the frustration rolling off and clearing out of my space, and the room got brighter. I could do a lot more in that regard for sure.

    My realization, for what it’s worth: when you numb yourself, you’re essentially creating force to stop the motion. Catch is, it stops all the motion, and, oh by the way, is that related to why I’m having so much trouble walking lately?

    Yeah, that.

    Great post, Marty. I think I need to call my auditor. It’s been too long.

  163. Crashing Upwards

    Ms Browns “breakdown” , among other events, provided the opportunity for her to really get it. So many of life’s lessons, that we really “get”, come from struggle. Ms Brown has a good understanding of the basic nature of some major identity and self worth issues and did a great job presenting the material. Very useful. Great clip for sharing with others.

  164. That’s not what this is. What you are prattling on about is as you admint, based on NO tech training. You’ve stated you did one day of TRs and got a “major stable win”. Fine. That’s not the full result of the TRs. Then you went off into a sketchy grasp of “parallel the preclear’s mind”, relative to TRs, which are TRAINING not auditing.

    You’ve never finished the HARD TRs course, admittedly, and have not gotten any other person THROUGH the standard TRAINING Routines, to a full result.

    You don’t get TRs. That’s a fact. It behoves me, according to the Codes I’ve subscribed to as a fully trained, interned and with several over 200 student courses (including the Hard TRs course at Flag) with hundreds of products from these course, including trained AUDITORS, to point up this stuff.

    If you’d actually DONE a standard, tough, no patty-cake, HARD TRs course in the first place, you would have reality on what it takes to do these drills.

  165. Well, if you’d actually done the TRs to full result, including a full grasp of Dn 55, maybe that’d be different. As you go on about “comm” and this nice feely crap, you’ve missed the point of the TRAINING drills, and apparently haven’t ever been put through a two hour Bullbait by someone who can.

  166. I saw the article. And i am sure the opinions on this are all over the place.
    Personally, I think any entity should have to prove it gives at least 50 % of its income out for charitable causes to be given an tax-exempt status. Whether its a religion or the boy scouts or the royal order of eagles. So in keeping with my own criteria , I think scientology as its currently praxcticed should loose their tax advantage.. Its just expensive psychotherapy. And very uncharitable under every definition except when its self-serving.

  167. very interesting….

  168. Inverness is about 40 minutes away.

  169. Another excellent article by Dana Kennedy in The Hollywood Reporter.

    It contains some interesting lie/quotes from Karin Poo and Lurch.

  170. Li'll bit of stuff

    This is my first comm, with you, so HI! thank you
    for sharing your experiences.,and I would like to
    just add these comments;-

    Firstly, as I implied to The Oracle, someone has
    short changed you in supposedly delivering the
    comm. course, for whatever reason applicable.

    Secondly, “miscavology” (the product of CO$).
    does NOT = Scientology!( the product of LRH)

    You would therefore be forgiven for recoiling in
    horror in remembering being dumped in an “acid
    bath” when you were assured you were going
    for a rejuvenating ” SPA bath ” !!!!

    gg95, I’m also sure you will admit that being so
    horribly deceived, is reason enough to admit
    that you were conned, and have a fresh look
    at just WHO conned you, and WHY? (see 31 FACTORS, at the top of this blog ) LRH? No way, babe!

    Hope you get this all straightened out, BTW,
    since properly trained TR’s are just a bunch
    of tools that are NOT meant to harm the user,
    but on the contrary, assist an Auditor in helping another to be freed from pain and
    aberration. You deserve that, don’t you???

    Best, Calvin.

  171. Came across an interesting reference the other day. Along the lines of thought stopping.
    Things like “well that’s it, I’ve lost my bridge”, or “it can’t be corrected internally, so there’s nothing that can be done about it” etc may find an applicable handling in the following:



    The inability to restrain dramatization of past experience only occurs when one has decided he can do nothing about such an experience. Thereafter he is the effect of all similar pictures.

    Test: Pick up a moment in the past when you decided you could do nothing about a certain thing—then examine later experience on same subject.

    This is the make-break point of reactivity.
    This is the bridge between cause point and effect point on any given subject.
    “I have to do something about it—I can do nothing about it” are the basic postulates of the overt act-motivator sequence. Straight Wire against an E-Meter on times one felt one could do nothing about it works to resolve very difficult cases.


    Of course I feel “failed help” and evaluation plays heavily into it.
    But these would require “listing” rules applied, and “run what reads”.
    But for that to be tested, honestly, does require the auditing comm cycle, and a real terminal, and a real “itsa maker line”, and “itsa line” etc

    And I also feel running help processes can drive a thundering spike into the heart of all these phenomena.

    “Help” is worth your time to get to know.

  172. Here, this is from CS Series 20, PERSISTENT FN. If you would DO tech training, for real with somebody who knows their business, and then get in the chair and audit another being, you’d get this. I urge you to do so.

    “You have hit an “unkillable F/N”, properly called a persistent F/N. It’s persistent at least for that day. Do any more and it’s wasted.

    “If an auditor has never seen this he had better get his TR0 bullbait flat for 2
    hours at one unflunked go and his other TRs in and drill out his flubs. For that’s what’s supposed to happen”.

  173. Windhorsegallery, great point.

    I think we get to attached to our “isms” in the beginning of the journey. We all become technique elitists. I believe that is a phase we all go through.

    Like a ship that is sinking and someone throws us a life preserver. We grab onto it and feel safe. We say,” look, I’m being saved, this life preserver is the only one.” Because of our neophyte mentality, we don’t recognize that others are being thrown a life preserver as well from different captains. Especially if the guy throwing out the life preserver is saying, “THESE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT FLOAT!!!”

    There are many tools in evolutions tool box. The outcome is king, the technique is the servant.

    When techniques are worshipped and acknowledged more than outcomes, elitism results.

    The best technique is simply that which resolves suffering and brings us face to face with our spiritual nature.

  174. I was thinkin’ about the research material this woman came up with on those who are happy, are willing to be vulnerable. Lana the other day shared a cog she’d had studying the 9th ACC, on the idea of Pan Determinism, as expounded in this lecture series and how a being, to actually be in comm with another has to be able to BE that other.

    Being “vulnerable” is willingness to grant another beingness and be able to also be effect of their cause, which you are also being.

    No wonder they’re happy 🙂

  175. Just great!!

  176. Hi Jim,
    I think what the Oracle is really objecting to is the WAY you are trying to get your message across to her. It comes across a bit hostile.
    I love you man but personally I think you could get the exact same message across with a bit less force and it would be recieved better by all.
    Just an unbiased observation.

  177. Nice connection.
    After reading that I reflected on my own ability to be “vulnerable”, and a cognition my friend/pc had on people “getting” tech on HELP.
    His cognition was that we had walked through the vulnerability, basically, “wall of fire”. When I audited him I was perfectly willing to be CAUSE and EFFECT. And he felt that. He could feel my sincere care for him. He felt safer to be vulnerable. And had a case cracking win.
    I just had a terrible, but probably very true realisation. There’s no “half-way” with those processes. And in the church that’s all you get, at best.
    We reached a level of mutual trust that would be in lay terms called “brothers”, “soul mates”.
    That is the ability able to be gained out of running Grade I “help”.
    It takes a real auditor though. And a real auditor that has attained that level of imbueing confidence in the pc.
    Again, study LRH’s works on “help” and 2-way-comm these considerations is my best advice on handling this phenomena.
    And be real about it.

  178. You can come and sup in my academy any time you want, Jim Logan.

  179. What a beautiful place to live and build a retreat! I was through that way a year or so ago and loved it.

  180. Loved reading this!! And am happy to see that Karen#1 has not stepped back one moment from continuing to box the sh** out of the CO$.

    I was happy to see all those horrid apostates continuing to speak out – Mike you are one of the worst 🙂

    dm has lived for so long in the “God realm” (God realm, jealous god realm, human realm, hungry ghost realm, animal realm, hell realm) that he truly believes he is invincible.

    OH BOY — surprise surprise my boy — when the god starts to fall it’s REALLY painful.


  181. Again to give the data on HELP the justice it deserves (“write it in fire in the back of your eyelids”) here is what the orgs were like when Ron was making sure it was run, right, what it was like in 1958.
    Note the part where he says he has never met a clear or even an OT since this point in time that exuded the same beingness as a person that was a “Help Clear”.


    Here’s how the “God Realm” works according to buddhist thought: BTW (these can be considered actual realms OR psychological states of mind)

    The lifetime of someone in the god realm is long relative to humans. They live a life of complete happiness, no suffering and cannot IMAGINE the suffering of others. BUT they do NOT live forever. They start to age and start to die.

    They smell like death and other gods move away from them. At first slowly, then quickly.

    Translation in dms world:

    He has enjoyed a long long life as dictator of scientology. Until most recently not exposed. He has enjoyed the status of best friend to Tom Cruise one of the biggest celebrities in the world. dm has hobnobbed with the rich and famous. dm wears 4K suits and shoes. His household is lavish.

    BUT — he’s starting to smell. Celebrities are leaving – Lisa Marie most likely. Others will follow.

    He will suffer immeasurably as he attempts to cling tightly to his position —

    And then he gets to experience his next realm — pick one — the hell realm?
    the hungry ghost realm? or the animal realm?

    He’ll not get a human chance for quite awhile.

    His soul has become a coal — a clinker (per LRH) — takes a while to become a diamond again — which is what the human realm is like …


  183. This is my understanding of the situation as regards income tax. I’m no lawyer so there may be aspects of it that I am unaware of or lacking in nuance.

    There may be a secret but maybe not but there are two major factors that clearly affect the decision that are not secrets.

    LRH died. Ergo, no further cause for pursuing private inurement to LRH. As regards auditing exemption — the exemption is based on the “doctrine of exchange,” claimed as a vital article of faith. The concept is that an individual will worsen spiritually if they are just given auditing or charity. i.e. charity benefits the giver, at the expense of the degradation of the receiver. Therefore an individual must contribute money or effort in exchange for services because of the religious beliefs of the Church of Scientology. Income from books and materials are still taxable.

    That’s in the U.S. In Germany, Scientology has been recognized as a religion. What is in dispute is whether it will be recognized on the list of religions granted tax exempt status. That is adjudicated on the basis of fostering general benefit to all members of the society. It is a separate issue from establishing religious belief. There are many religions that cannot qualify on this basis in Germany because they foster attitudes or doctrines that are judged to be inimical to the welfare of the general society.

    It probably explains the heavy attention given to the social outreach programs by the Church. It must be seen to be contributing to the general welfare of all people in the nation. Like it or not, it is seen that way.

    In the U.S., even if the Church of Scientology lost tax exempt status for the purposes of individuals claiming donations made to it as deductions on their tax returns, they still would qualify as a non-profit because there are no owners or shareholders who directly receive the profits from the operation. Well paid directors don’t count. Consider how much the chief executives of large charitable organizations are paid — in some cases this is substantial and in the past a source of much complaint or censure from the public. Non-profit organizations (such as schools, colleges, arts groups, etc.) do not pay tax as long as their services and activities do not fall outside of the scope of their mandate.

    So only the individual Scientologists would be penalized because they would not be able to claim their donations for auditing/training on their tax returns. But donations for buildings and general donations would probably still qualify just as they do for colleges, mainstream Churches and other educational institutions.

  184. Li'll bit of stuff

    Jim, good old Auditor’s Code. What happened man??

  185. “So learn to handle help. Get cleared on it in co-auditing or in the HGC. Learn a dozen ways to discuss it so as to break down the barricade of “disinterest” (which is really fear) and get the show on the road.
    Help is not injurious. Help is not the best way to hurt.
    Help is just help. Let’s flatten it until we’ll always know it and never forget it
    again, and learn adroitly to collapse the help psychosis in others by talk alone.
    We have bought our own Freedom to Help.
    Use it.”

  186. ^^ That previous quote was out of HCOB 19 May 1960 “HOW HELP BECAME BETRAYAL”

  187. Theo Sismanides

    Tessa, I agree. Hubbard and Scientology are two different things. He said it himself many times and made that distinction clear.

  188. roger weller

    i agree

  189. roger weller

    it is a good study in serv fac.

  190. roger weller

    i agree jim. there are words that communicate just what im trying to convey.
    jim send your email to me on my facebook great meeting you and we did get to sing. and remember i know albe berk.

  191. Ya just read it, great comparisons of celebrity vs. mere Scientologist’s treatment. “… Karen#1 has not stepped back one moment from continuing to box the sh** out of the CO$.” whg That cracked me up 🙂 and so true !

  192. I dono Tony, Jim seems to cut it up the way he see’s it, impinging no doubt when the shoe fits. If one can’t suffer being offended now and then, especially when appropo to KSW, your TR’s are not in.

  193. ThetaPotata <- I love that name. Just thought I'd mention it, lol

  194. threefeetback

    Administratively speaking, DM even ‘plays the piano’ backwards, reverse Scientology.

  195. I don’t think it’s a matter of whether Oracle can confront it or not. It does come across as a bit rude and out of ARC. I mean Oracle is a good person and whether she agrees with Jim or not I feel that it would be better to talk to her with more ARC. This smacks to me a bit of the ” ruthlessly invalidate” that came from LRH and that I never really agreed with. Sure I can see trying to correct someone but I think it would go a lot further using ARC. JMO.

  196. Yvonne Schick

    I enjoyed viewing the Brene Brown piece and had some useful insights for myself. I especially enjoy the freedom to seek more knowledge and understanding from a variety of sources which I then evaluate from my own viewpoint, accepting what seems useful to me and setting the rest aside for now. It is a freedom I surrendered for awhile and have relished exercising once again.

    Thanks, Marty, for sharing it.

  197. Yes. That definitely stood out to me in the very beginning. The whole blocking of exits and discouraging communication with anonymous protesters was a big red flag. Not that I cared about the anonymous, but the whole blocking thing felt infringing on my rights. And then the more you participate in the group, the more negativity and hatred you begin to develop for things and people you could simply look at before (as-is) and choose to accept or reject it, to interact with it or not and keep going on your way. It’s like if the church has a problem with somebody, you are supposed to cut your communication, maintain them as something unfavorable (bringing about an alter-is to the situation), and start to hate (what else are you left to do if you are not free to look and communicate?) or if you don’t comply with this group culture then the same sort of “handling” techniques will be directed toward you.

    And if you don’t hate, then there must be something wrong with you, then you must be in agreement with it, have O/W’s, enemy lines, false purpose or whatever the false indicator(s) may be. It’s totally crazy. It seems to all starts with the blocking of communication with suppressive policies and unforgiving attitude from those in authority to enforce it. Isn’t it what characterizes Miscavige’s attitude – to be absolutely “dedicated” and totally “unrelenting” in the name of being tough and a “true Scientologist”? He totally sets this sort of attitude at the church, and I can totally see how others can shift into it. I think I did so myself in some way. It’s like a certain wavelength. I guess you can get a certain “high” from riding it, but ruin and misery is sure to follow in its wake. And I can totally see how you would shift into that mindset of being tough and unforgiving – because this flow also contains a hidden, implied invalidation – like if you don’t hate and agree with us, then you are weak and unworthy and who wants to be that?

    Wow! Miscavige does totally seem to enforce this beingness onto others and his standard of what it means to be a “true Scientologist.” You see other people parroting it at practically every level of the organization and dramatizing it onto themselves, each other and the public. Doesn’t it also result in a “hidden standard,” like you are supposed to start seeing things a “group’s” way as a hidden measure of your progress up the Bridge? After all, you are on the way to become a “true Scientologist.” What if you I don’t want to hate anybody? What if I don’t want to consider someone “suppressive?” What if I just want to focus on improving myself and gain in ability and leave other people alone (unless I choose to interact with someone)? Do I have to accept somebody else’s attitude and approach to handling things to be considered a “true Scientologist!” That would seem to be counter-productive to the practice itself.

    HCOB 8 Nov. 65 Suppressives and Hidden Standards

    “A hidden standard is a problem a person thinks must be resolved before auditing can be seen to have worked. It’s a standard by which to judge Scientology or auditing or the auditor.”

    [my example of a hidden standard: “I am not seeing things the same way as all these ‘upstat’ Scientologists” or “I do not seem to be in agreement with hating that person, group… etc” – there must be something wrong with me. Maybe I need to get some auditing to see what’s wrong with me.]

    “Therefore you can always find a Suppressive by finding a pc’s hidden standard and following it back to when it began. You will find there a Suppressive to the pc.”

    [Is David Miscavige the source of hatred in Scientology? Does he cause and justify hatred through the group of people toward each other, toward themselves, the public, mankind… hell the subject of Scientology (since he equated himself with the subject)? Who is he to be a representative of the subject and it movement to begin with?]

    I mean according to data in the “Handbook for Preclears” if you hate in one direction, you will inevitably hate in all other directions as well:

    page 80) “All the dynamics are interactive. If you love others, you will love yourself. If you hate others, you will hate yourself. If you hate men, you will hate along the other dynamics even when you cover it with “sympathy” as you will discover in a later Act.”

    [Couldn’t it be that all the stressed PR about helping and caring about others is really covering hatred with sympathy?]

  198. LTC Forever

    Dissociation is also a commont factor connected to brainwashing and mind-control. The target subject is made to dissociate from themselves [through infliction of severe physical or emotional trauma] into a new identity dictated by the “handler.” This also happens naturally when one goes through some traumatic even (such as a big failure or a loss of a loved one) and resorts to deciding to assume a new identitiy in order to dissociate from pains of the past. Hmm… This leads to an inavitable question “Aren’t we all dissociated to some extent?”

  199. ThetaPotata


  200. CLOUD ATLAS — a new movie by the Wachowski brothers (Matrix and V) — coming October 26. The trailer looks awesome.

    “Fear, belief, love – forces that determine our lives” “Each crime and every kindness determine our future” “Everything is connected.”

    Because I do believe in the basic goodness and kindness of every sentient being – I am ever hopeful that dm while reading this blog, as I understand he does daily, will at least have a flicker of terror run through his blood as he very very fleetingly (because it’s too painful to really look) sees his potential future.

    Every crime against his fellow man is etched on his soul/mind. While it can be deeply numbed out, it doesn’t go away.

    It can however be forgiven. That forgiveness starts with himself as he steps into the light. The course of his future can change. It’s all up to him.


  201. On another note entirely – check out the opening ceremony of the Olympics in an hours time – I’ve had a sneak preview and it is nothing like anything you’ve seen before. Very special.

  202. LTC Forever

    Nannette, thank you very much for sharing your story. One phrase came to mind to me when I read through this subject: removal or suppression of humanity. It’s like you are not supposed to feel for yourself or other people because that’s “low tone,” “sympathy,” “being a victim,” or whatever else. As I mentioned in a post above I realized that there is definitely an enforcement of certain standard of beingness at the Church, and that standard can become “hidden standard” in one’s approach to auditing and going up the Bridge. The whole thing can and does become about removing your humanity as a path toward becoming a true “OT.” It is quite an aberrated/aberrative situation, and it is actually the one thing that I noticed among Scientology public – many people seemed to be somehow “detached” and very serious about themselves. I think it was also a learned defense mechanism. If you are happy and extroverted, you are bound to be assaulted by Sea Org members for sales, donations, and recruitment… hmm… but if you are not happy then you must be PTS, have an enemy line… etc – that’s quite a conflict. I recall at one point when I no longer wanted to have successes, at least not overtly, because I knew that it would be used to get me to agree with something else that I didn’t plan on… but at the same time you have to write a success story and look cheerful at the end of every course; otherwise, you may be sent to qual like you didn’t get something. Right?

    I also have an example of observing “inappropriate” emotions to the situation. I was at a movie threatre watching Fahrenheit 9/11where Michael Moor was demonstrating the true face of war in Iraq with people loosing their children and families like where civilian targets were hit on accident. I was sitting there in horror about the devastations of war while I heard many people behind me laughing and cracking jokes about what they were seeing while chewing on their popcorn and drinking soda. After the movie was over, I heard people discussing it as if it was some Hollywood scary movie. I think this was even more disturbing to me that the actual movie.

    If you think about it there is this whole theory out there of how we all should become “de-sensatized” to certain things because it is weak to feel anything when in fact the opposite is the truth. I think this is the message in Brene Brown’s presentation.

  203. You’re welcome. And thanks to Ann Howe, too. 🙂

  204. You are declaring me an overt product from two tr’s courses I passed.
    One at Flag. I did do the tr’s to a full result. You are announcing I can not duplicate materials. Just because I mentioned two wins I gained that maybe you have not heard before. Your evaluations and invalidation here, based on an origination I made, is overboard to the point of fair gaming me. You are dubbing in all manner of ills and outpoints I have, and announcing them as fact. I have a view of things and I have a voice. It does not align with yours. It’s just that simple.


    THANK YOU ALL…..standby, drying eyes…………


  206. Maria,
    In this video, after the title shot, the photo right after the waterfall, is shot above the river, looking down. That is the section of the Margaree River where my house is. It’s upstream, on the right over out of the frame.

    This video has shots mostly within 10 minutes of my place.

  207. Tony,
    Fact is I’ve had to repair cases that have been subjected to this theetie-wheetie, patty-cake TR/NO TRs bullshit. That is both from within and without the CofS. The “freezone” is rife with untrained, laissez-faire, do as thou wilt, “tech” and those who partake, even AFTER the horrendous results, would be well to take heed of KSW and that admoniton of those who practice actual Scientology, to not be afraid to offend or scared to enforce.

    I was declared because I refused to bend to this shit. I am certainly not going to go all nicey-feely if it means others are going to be subjected to reverse, squirrel, crap masquerading as “tech”.

    I love you too Tony 🙂

  208. Li’l Bit,
    You know, you can be as smarmy as an old greased nut betimes. This is one them. Fuck off. (That’s 2.0 to your 1.1. )

  209. Yeah, cracked me up too. You go Karen, box the shit out of the bastards. They will comm lag, but eventually they’ll appreciate you care enough to do so.

  210. I really do understand. It was run on me a lot too. “You aren’t as trained as I am” “You aren’t as high on the bridge as I am” “You aren’t on staff like I am” “You are PTS to the middle class” “I am OT you aren’t” “You are reasonable” “You are in a drug valence because you use so much slang” blah blah blah inval eval the “class system” that evolved in Scientology!

    The thing is, I was happy with my life the way it was and the way I was.
    I knew I would not be happy in lives those people lived, no matter my status. I did not want their lives. So it did not matter what they said they were and I was not. Until I went in the Sea Org all my friends were still “wogs”. When I was in the the Sea Org, I stayed in touch with them! In the Sea Org, I was with public all of the time.

    When I joined the Sea Org, it was “I have more stripes than you” “I am suffering more than you” “I have sacrificed more than you” “I have more power than you” “I am higher on the Org than you” The same class system. I didn’t care about those things either. I was happy with my life in the Sea Org and I did not want their lives.

    I have always been happiest in the lower classes. There is a lot more freedom there.

    When you are happy with who you are and your own life, you really don’t have an urge to copy other people in thought, view or action.

    The key word you use above that stands out to me is INTEREST.

    Interest is a high tone and carries with it curiosity. I was interested in Scientology because I was interested in making MY OWN LIFE, created by me, a better one. The Scientology culture never became more interesting to me than my own life. There are people who are unhappy with their life or not too interested in their own life and the Scientology “life” seems more interesting. They abandon their own thoughts, identities ethics codes morals habits standards goals whatever, and adopt what they seem to see as a “better way”. That results in some group agreement and a new culture is born from that. You begin to see identities you have seen before. The voices begin to sound the same.
    And you get people who are not making their life better with Scientology, you get people who do not have a life outside of Scientology or the Scientology arena. And I see this as a reverse purpose for Scientology. It becomes a womb to hide in.

    The crime of the “wog” world is that there are people interested in their own life more than Scientology.

    There were years I lost all interest in Scientology. This in itself is an unspoken crime within the culture. I was referred to in these times as dilettantism. PTS to the middle class. And reasonable. That did not bother me. When I returned I always had money to spend and I was quickly forgiven.

    I was always looking for something specific in the Scientology. Even though I could not say what it was. There was that thread of interest for tech. A key I was looking for that would unlock some door for me I could not find or open myself. But I knew was there. I hoped the Scientology at some point could do that for me. And it did on levels important with all the auditing and training I got. I could smell it on some level though, that my “big bang” was in there somewhere. The thing that would make me drop to my knees . I was interested greatly in something I could smell there. All the way to solo nots I could smell this thing I needed and that I was really interested in for me alone that didn’t even have anything to do with Scientology but it was in there. Then I went for L12. 40 years later after I started to smell this thing. And then it happened. About mid way through the L I returned to my hotel room and fell to my knees.

    That is what made me right with the Scientology.

    It wasn’t the certs. or approvals, or any status or non status.

    I am not saying this is the thing for you. I hear you when you say there were things you just were not interested in. People should not buy things they are not personally interested in. Someone could have checked for your interest item but the system has been like a McDonalds restaurant chain where everyone gets the same C/S even though people are very different. This, “it worked for Joe it should work for you” is an A=A. There are no absolutes.

    But as well as your non interest, I know there is an interest you have too. I know because you are still here with some curiosity.

    Trust your smell.

    Love, T.O.

  211. Christine, thank you for posting this very compassionate and heartfelt thought. I, and probably most others on this blog, share the wish that DM will take responsibility for his actions and change. Paraphrasing from “Two Types of Beings”, LRH says that an evil person, acted upon powerfully by Life, can become good. Unfortunately, most bad or good cycles usually run the course of a lifetime or more.

    But, as you say, it’s all up to him. We here are doing our parts to help make this happen.

  212. It is not at all about what Jim is saying. It is about what he is not saying.

  213. Perhaps he has had other interests than you. I am glad you have studied and have “tech training”. I am glad you are a course supervisor hatted and a qual sec hatted. If that is what interested you, I am glad you pursued your goals. We live on a big planet and clearly there are many people who do not share your interests. That does automatically not set them up to be fair gamed.

  214. Auditor, so you’re saying every 503c charity should give 50% of it’s income to other charities? You realize that would include the Boy Scouts and organizations like Red Cross or American Cancer Society, Feed the Children, etc. etc. finding a different charity to give 50% of their money to. Not a workable solution, enters in even more complexity to an already complex system.

  215. Yes, it was an outpoint. Thank you for duplicating and understanding.
    Great tr’s. 🙂

  216. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hey Jim, back off man, you’re picking on
    the wrong target, bully boy! Stirring up
    the shit will backfire on you too!

  217. Effortless Power

    ♥ ☼ “a fun, decidedly unserious, activity” ☼ ♥ <~~~ Good point! What Scientology wins and LIFE truly is. That power moves mountains!

    You know Tom Cruise and David Miscavige are so S.O.L.I.D. and serious … right there is the #1 clue that there is minimal free theta (life) and they are full of lies. (͡๏̯͡๏)

  218. Margaret,

    Thank you for your reason! A constant reassurance. Your thinking presence is a salve on these festering wounds.

  219. Thanks to Margaret.

    “When you have applied it as it should be, and applied as it is taught at the school, and still find it unworkable, it is your privilege to question it and, if you like, reject it.“ L.R.H.

    On “How to study Scientology”

  220. Joe Pendleton

    Mike, what this is is a very common feature of closed religious systems. My last senior was fond of saying “Whenever I have ANY problem in life, I just ask myself ‘what LRH do I need to apply?’ ” In Bible Study, I’ve seen friends hold up the Bible and say “It’s all in here, everything you need to know about living the good and righteous life.” Of course the Koran and the Old Testament have a million rules about every aspect of life and how to proceed with it, from diet to menstruation. A disappointmen to met that Scientology slowly but surely took on the same aspect. But as I’ve noted a number of times before, that is no longer the case with Independent Scientology, where folks will truly be applying LRH’s essay on integrity and deciding what is real and true for THEM (as well as being open to any wisdom from any source).

  221. Yo, Roger, of course I remember 🙂
    Write to me at

  222. Sometimes I find myself doing this too — listening to something and then drawing comparisons based upon the worldview that I’ve adopted. If it seems to match with what I’ve already learned, I accept; if it doesn’t, then I reject.

    The only problem with relying upon this, is that it closes a person down from new information sources that may in fact be useful even though they may challenge or contradict previous views.

    Critically, it stops us from truly and genuinely listening to our fellow man.

    On top of this, there have been recent studies that show how we actively seek out information that accords with our pre-established ideas, and ignore all of the inconvenient stuff that can potentially destabilise us.

    What I appreciate about Zen in particular is its inbuilt mechanism to swiftly pull the rug out from underneath everything, particularly if we’re getting too attached or boxed into our way of thinking or “building a gilded cage”. It really does stop at nothing.

    Ultimately, I think it’s more about our fundamental attitude or approach towards something, rather than a belief or idea in and of itself. Otherwise, we will end up removing ourselves from one box, only to put ourselves squarely into another.

  223. “And because the corporate authority exercised by the Church of Scientology derives entirely from the terms of the IRS-Scientology Agreement, and because they utilize their state-granted religious monopoly to inflict both torts and religious injuries upon Independent Scientologists, in any resulting dispute the IRS-Scientology Agreement would be fair game (pun intended).”

    We’re getting ever so close to the point where miscavige’s game of using corporate law or ecclisiastical exemption is over. There are some other factor’s which put another nail in that side of his monopolistic coffin.

  224. Li'll bit of stuff

    Valkov, I’m with you totally on this! however, I can vividly
    recall a situation, back in around ’75 where A bunch of
    us went onto the street to do a massive body, reg, up
    to the 1st floor mission. Me being my usual, over eager
    self,plus a few attractive girls in our team, just ripped it
    up, pulling people en masse for their “IQ & personalty tests.”

    We all responded with the resultant high tone game
    of just communicating with any one and everyone.
    With one jarring exception. One of the girls, whom I’d
    always considered a really bright, friendly ,able Scn.
    suddenly went into a terror freeze, broke down in
    tears, and ran off to hide somewhere. During all the
    regging excitement, the randomity of the moment, precluded handling her, and I later heard that she
    just refused to do any further regging. and never saw her to discuss what had happened back then.

    Looking back from PT, I realise that I had missed
    her Out Reality of the TR’s, ( more of a KEY-IN )
    and so she ended up with a total loss. Yes it was
    a huge flunk for none of us picking it up, getting
    her into session, and getting her de-bugged &
    through. Had WE been sharp enough, & not
    the neophytes we were, I like to think we could
    have done a better job.
    It’s a lesson to all of us, especially given this
    loss giving scenario currently playing out on
    the blog amongst us. It shouldn’t happen to ANYONE …….IF WE REALLY CARED FOR EACH OTHER!

    Summary: Per TR 4 –Orginations are HANDLED!
    to satisfaction ALWAYS with good ARC, before
    continuing with the next step.whatever that is!


  225. Joe Pendleton

    A comment on “no case on post/publicly holding your emotions in check.” When I joined staff in 1970 and throughout the following decade, in our org (the biggest in the world I think at the time) the concept of no case on post was not mentioned often. The FEBC had come out and what you DID hear a lot was that the biggest barrier to production was Human Emotion and Reaction (HE&R). But you have to get the CONCEPT here. It didn’t have specifically a lot to do with emotions that one might experience or was even displaying necessarily on post. What it DID have to do with was that when the Product Officer came around and demanded completely unreal targets (or when on Thursday afternoon it was suddenly decided that we would NOT be getting the rest of the day off for Thanksgiving dinner as promised, because some stat moron uplines needed some stuff done) you were to say ‘YES, SIR!” ANYTHING ELSE was HE&R or case on post.

    In other words these concepts of how you were to respond to orders was simply ‘DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TOLD.” Any other response was not acceptable and was black PR’d. This whole concept of what “human” emotions were unacceptable was really nothing more than a CONTROL MECHANISM by the church. I do not recall any negative comments about emotions people were experiencing EXCEPT as a response to (usually) unreal or abusive orders.

    Note that LRH rarely (if ever) mentions the SENIORS’ emotions. It was ALWAYS quite acceptable (from Ron on down as there are numerous stories of his random bad temper from those who worked closely with him) to hit a JUNIOR with all sorts of human emotion. The Product Officer is ruthless demanding unreasonably demanding products. In our org, the Org Officer who was supposed to follow in the Product Officer’s wake and help staff organize was a bull like chunky chick (who did her post like NFL linebacker Dick Butkus) and just added her own yelling and screaming and demands usually.

    So, it ALL had to do with another way to get folks to be compliant and easily CONTROLLED (despite LRH’s earlier claims that he did NOT want staff to be “good girls and boys” – he definately changed his mind about that). Note that IAS regges and recruiters will use any emotion in the book to get you to do what they want you to do. You WILL be accused of PTS to the middle class, and various case outnesses if you do not donate at all timesl or join staff. You WILL be hit with every emotion on the tone scale that the other person thinks will be useful to get you “to be good” and do what you’re told.

    Final comment. LRH though WAS onto something that I didn’t fully cognite on until I left the CoS. It is that it is a VERY successful action at times (not ALL the time) to blow up and go ballistic. You can actually control your seniors sometimes if you do this strategically. LRH and Miscavige knew this very well. Make yourself unconfrontable when you want to be. Blow up and scream and the NEXT time whomever is approaching you will start walking on eggshells and be somewhat or a lot at effect. Yeah, yeah, one will get the talk about case on post, entheta, go to ethics, get a chit or two, but the NEXT time you will be treated MUCH better. This is where the Training Routines DO act somewhat as conditioning beings. Now I use TRs successfully every single day of my life, but during my last cycle at the CoS I THOUGHT it was a positive that I was always keeping my TRs in, maintained a tone above 3.0, acknowledged, etc etc etc. MISTAKE. I should have thrown someone through a wall or two (metaphorically speaking) and we would have all been a lot better off.

  226. Gorgeous! I’m guessing you are working hard to get your house built before the first snow flies! Maybe you’ll be all set up by the time I cross through that way again and I can stop in for a hello!

  227. I really enjoyed watching this — it’s always great to hear people’s personal discoveries, especially when they are this deeply felt. I am touched.

    Our relationship to emotions is highly complex and I don’t think there’s one single way of dealing with them that’s applicable to everybody, in every life situation. Having said that, I think that if we are just able to “be” with each emotion that we experience, good or bad, and just stay present in their midst, we can then allow the space for them to come and go naturally.

    I appreciate the variety of content that’s posted from different sources and fields of experience. Keep ’em coming!

  228. Hi Jim,
    I understand what you are saying. I have tons of respect for you.
    My point is what if this idea of “ruthlessly invalidating” things that were not “standard” was wrong and actually didn’t work?
    I mean people that are interested in Scientology sort of agree to play by these rules. How about people that DON’T agree with all these rules?
    Maybe when THEY are “ruthlessly invalidated” they just think “fuck this guy” and decide to never do anything else with that person?
    Food for thought.
    As for myself, I like a good argument now and then to keep me sharp, but I’ve noticed not everyone else does.
    Peace Brother!!

  229. Laughter!

  230. Ronn S, no, they do not have to give 50% of their money away, but 50% of it should be used for charitable purposes and that may be the activity they are engaged in or other such activites which are for the public good. Amassing a billion dollars is not my idea of that. I can see on re reading what I wrote how you took it the way you did. And 50% is arbitray, could be 90%. But the public good should be involved and amassing a fortune should not.

  231. Thank you, Joe, for this truly enlightening statement !
    It matches my experiences and observations to 100 %.

  232. I guess that’s why I never quite fit in. I recall being told I had to be on post on Christmas day, when I’d already told my parents I would be home. I looked at the little bitch giving me the order and told her F off. I went home for Christmas, had a great time, and never heard another word from that little…
    Point being that my product over Christmas was happy parents. I never did lose sight of that aspect of life and all the HE&R from executives was not going to get in the way of me getting my product.

    I wouldn’t have lasted ten minutes at Int.

  233. Marty Rathbun…you sure know how to get a conversation going.

    Great post. What intrigued me the most about the video was the amazing lengths she went to in order to amass sufficient data to come to a sane conclusion.

    I feel that this is what is occurring here. Data data data…multiple viewpoints, multiple sources (some reliable, some not). Facts facts facts.
    And it’s all starting to form into a cohesive expose with sufficient data to do a full analysis on just about every aspect of the subject from day one to PT.
    Your book, of course is a major step in publishing honest findings.


  234. Errol Sayin

    “Excuse me for interrupting your comm cycle with your circuits, but this drivel on TRs is a load of hogwash. Parallel the pc’s mind? TRs are TRAINING ROUTINES.”

    I totally agree with this comment from Jim Logan to Oracle. I don’t think it is excessive; and it seems to me that if LRH wanted to “parallel the pc’s mind”; he was smart enough to put that in the instructions that he gave.

  235. Oracle,
    “A Scientologist is the being three feet behind society’s head. And society runs on eight dynamics, not in a sick room. Some of us, of course, would become professional practitioners. But a professional Scientologist is one who expertly uses Scientology on any area or level of the society.

    “A housewife who does not have professional level skill in Scientology could not expect to run a wholly successful family or keep order in her neighbourhood and keep her family well. A factory foreman could not possibly handle his crews with full effectiveness without professional Scientology skill. The personal assistant to a corporation executive could not do a fully effective job without being a professional Scientologist. A corporation president without a certificate will someday fail. And the head of a country would go to pieces if he didn’t know Scientology from a professional angle.” HCOB 10 June 60, WHAT WE EXPECT OF A SCIENTOLOGIST.

  236. Oh yeah, Oracle, urging you to get trained is “fair game”?! Holy cats. I think there may some bad eye of newt in the potion. Somebody foisted salamander off on you.

  237. That study is the study of ego mind. What a great study.

    Yes Vajra I agree, to dismantle all of these states of mind requires something beyond mind. You say Zen but I’ll just say meditation, it is inclusive of all true paths that use the techniques of the master sages of all time.

    The mind is like an ice cube, condensed energy made up of reflections of experience, with the capacity to extrapolate stored perceptions to form new views and to come to conclusions on the approximation of Ultimate Truth and form opinions on relative truths.

    Using the mind to disolve the mind can be difficult because we are using the very thing we are trying to disolve back to its source. There are processes though, called Jnana yoga (liberation through the discriminating faculties, Scientology could fall into this catagory)

    In Sanskrit that faculty is called Viveka: it means to cut in two, to see one thing as distinct from the other. The word vivisection comes from that root.

    Meditation (Raja Yoga means the Royal Path) is like a pot of boiling water. It bypasses the mind. By its very nature, when we drop an cube of ice into the poiling pot the solid nature of the ice cube resolves back into a more basic element of water

    And when we experience samadhi (a very high state of consciousness in meditation) the pot of boiling water becomes vapor/spirit/theta

    IMO, meditation is the method to experience the Supreme Being. Or if you have a problem with a God you can use whatever word your traditions uses. The word water has many names. The names are different but the nature of water remains unchanged.

    In India all the different approaches are celibrated as true paths. In the west everyone thinks they have the new- improved- advanced- evolved-groovacious only bestest mouse trap.

    Direct experience of the Supreme Being in a deep state of spiritual transcendence is the way to rid ourselves of sectarian, religious, class, race and gender bigotry. Why? Because we realize directly, not just believe, that we all have more in common than we can every know when we are body and mind bound.

    Such joy, wisdom, knowledge and power to be known!

    Brian back on the high horse lol! Giddy Up 🙂

  238. Spotlighting the Shame Game has conjured up some interesting forces!

  239. I am just reviewing the Class VIII tapes and on #7 where I am at LRH states the importance of an auditor being able to “use other words” to get the concept of a Scientology term (like an ‘ARC BREAK’) across, whether it be needed for a kid or a person speaking another language or whatever. Nothing better than conceptual understanding!

  240. It is interesting that the video posted touched upon SHAME. There is a big Shame Game run in the Orgs. A Blame Game too. The “no case on post” is part of the blame game and shame game SOME people, not all by any means, could use on others like a ser fac. There so much SHAME available in Scientology. Shame because you are not trained, shame because you are not auditied, shame because you have not joined staff, shame because you have not donated. Shame because you didn’t join the Sea Org. Shame because a relative blew. Shame in the sec checks. Shame when you run out of money. Shame when you say, “no”.
    The culture is rich with shame game angles. I could speak at greater length about the Blame Game. I have known product officers that could get me making things happen as if I were Houdini. Those were the people that were frank about needing me. And spoke to me with love and respect. I moved mountains for people at times. But sorry, only if I respected and admired them.

    And, I have known product officers that caused me to leave post and go sit on the beach in Clearwater just to leave them in their own madness. It has a everything to do with PURPOSE how folks use the Scientology.

    I am not a fan of Ruth Minshull. When I read Miracles for Breakfast I was grateful she was not my mother. I threw the book in the trash.

    But she does have some points in Ups and Downs that give illustrations to very real situations with people.

    She describes how one can be suppressive with religion, I don’t really view people as SP’s, or not myself. I just see people as op terms or not.

    “Now and then you will find an SP with a passion for religion. His sanctimonious attitude, however, disguises a total lack of empathy for the human spirit. He contributes no genuine effort to heal or help or love. Instead , he uses religion to condemn, to stop, to make people feel guilty.”

    My experience with different staff in Scientology has depended wholly on the nature and character of the staff member.

    Although there were some who were quite a liability in reality, there were others that were brilliant, sane and sincere and they made up in every way for the spilled milk.

  241. Maria,
    I don’t see you mentioning a time tag on when these evaluations occurred to you. Yes this sucks!

    I just wanted to say something to bring about a differentiation on how it was handled EARLIER. There are exceptions to everything. While in general a staff member/SO member has no case on post and as an auditor you CAN audit “if breath shows on the mirror”, I remember 3 incidents that were handled properly. 1) While off the level of OT III, having a horrendous dream I could not stop crying. Nothing was said and I was simply put into session. 2) When I came back from the funeral of my adoptive father I was put into session without asking for it. 3) When I lost a pc to an uncurable illness I was also put into session. That’s the 80s and earlier 90s and some SO members still cared.

  242. Captain Non Sequitur

    nice post and observations Joe. I concur.

    What is also interesting in your observations is that when a senior is yelling or demanding products from a junior (also called Baiting), why all the staff in the area that see this or hear this scene get real busy real quick.

    And I find it interesting that one on staff could never apply the Problems of Work datum or chapter of “come loaf with me”. Meaning get all your work done, complete those cycles of actions and then put your feet on the table with your hands behind your head enjoying the fruits of your labor. This could never be done on staff. But I applied that piece of knownledge at a wog “real” job and it worked great (depends on one’s boss though).

    Of course as well, there is the problem of getting one’s stats up always, so loafing is out of the question. Tough game to play, staff at any level of the organization.

  243. I agree. Don’t even know who she is, but I love everything Margaret says! Just awesome.

  244. Good point. I was lucky in that my dad told me constantly “Look before you leap”. I took this to mean “Understand before you go there”. If what I was experiancing had no basis in LRH policy, I did not copy it. But I never could understand where it was comeing from when here I was with the elite of the elite. The top % of civilization and I could not understand how it got there untill reading this blog and Marty’s book and all the other viewpoints I’d been ‘trained’ to ignor. I truly feel more me every day since reading Amy’s book and finding this blog. ……And I’m coming from a long long long way away from me to get here and knowing I’m going in the right direction now. I was brain trained in the cult ~ and as Karen noted in a quote – the very place the enemies should not be ~ ones religion.
    Since leaving, I was doing the things mentioned in the video above to myself to finally numb what I could not understand and could thus believe it would not ‘contol’ me ~ I would not be vulenerabile.
    Thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction.

  245. Very theta!

  246. I agree Aeolus, There is the being vulnerable at cause and another way at effect or put another way – vulnerable & blind.

  247. Excuse me Jim? You see yourself as “urging” me? You purposefully work to unmock me and harm me and describe that as “urging”? Of course. That seems convenient.
    We are so far apart in distance there is zero chance we will ever be on the same page. And it is not a goal of mine to be on the same page with you. I don’t care if you disagree with me. I have responded to your op termings only with some slight amusement.You have less than zero altitude with me and you know exactly why, even if nobody else on this forum does. I do not expect you to own up to your inval eval and fair gaming although they are black and white and in writing and clear as a bell. You have not “urged” me towards anything except what you think might re stimulate me. I have no urge to exchange ideas with you otherwise I would not have blocked you from my email. I have no social concerns that will cause me to bend beneath your stormy evaluations and invalidation. You can op term me all over the place and you will not be able to suppress me. That is an unattainable goal for you. Please stop setting yourself up for losses with me.

  248. Both you – same thing here. My husband was abusive. I would cry at the examiner and in the chaplin’s office. They could not confront the evil I was relaying and sent me to post. Once when I was on the RPF I woke up crying and could not stop for several days. The ‘solution’ was to put me on the RPF’s RPF. I found out some 10 days later my father was dying 3,000 miles away. Later still on the RPF, my husband beat me up I was 6 months pregnant! It was such a relief when I reported this the next am to the RPF MAA Mr. Reale Laplaine. That guy had confont. He called Mike Titmus and Guy White front and center and sent them to my berthing with me and grabbed the guy and walked him right out of the SO (Hollywood Inn) to the YMCA and handed him 20 bucks. THEN Reale turned around and confronted AOLA execs that he had put their ‘funtioning’ SO member staff on the streets! Reale had balls. I felt so well acknowledged I didn’t even need to cry about it!
    Ahhhhh stories.

  249. She also researched on the subject of shame. This video contains her results. Its very enlightening and it really explains a lot.

  250. Tony,
    I understand what you are saying on the “ruthlessly invalidate”. Any bit of truth, enforced and taken to ridiculous extremes becomes whacko.

    How about this: if enough Pre OTs had ruthlessly refused to violate CS Series 73, and ruthlessly applied Confessionals and the Non Inerfernece Area issues, they’d be in far better shape now, rather than having gone through sometimes decades of bullshit sec checks, and interference with their auditing. Yes, they would have been sujbect to social rejection, “ethics” for not conforming to the crap, and well, maybe even declared SP by a squirrel group. BUT, they’d have retained their integrity, their sense of self, and avoided all that reverse tech bullpucky.

    That’s food for thought, too.


  251. Thank you, sir. It is an ongoing process. One thing: Most people who got into Scientology got there because of a strong curiosity and willingness to go outside the “norm”. It is the Independent that is carrying on that tradition, and frankly, I find it fascinating.

  252. Marty,
    Just wrote a review on Amazon. I recommend to anyone who read the book to write a review on Amazon.
    Express yourself:-)!

  253. Calvin,
    I’ll give you a Resentment on that response. Hey, up is up. It’d be real mean of me to nag a rise now woon’it.

    Keep at it and maybe you’ll even respond to my request for you to email me, that’s weeks old.

    When you first got on this blog, there were those convinced you were an OSA troll. “Stirring up shit” as you mention here. I’ve been watching you post and personally, I’m not unconvinced of those others convictions at that time.

    I don’t like your posts. They smack of something, not right. Something is outpointy here. Added inapplicable stuff. Oddities.

  254. And Jim, As far as YOU reminding ME of “professional skills”……… for real? You just spent two months here working as a “professional” for me. I know exactly how professional you are. And I know exactly how you managed the trust I placed in you. Again, you do not have the altitude to influence me. I alsi think it is very unfair that you drag this treason into this arena and even manage to get other to contribute to it unwittingly with so much omitted data. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. You don’t have to stretch it out between Canada, Texas, and anchor points across the planet.

  255. Well, I consider that Scientology is a religion, even if the Church is working hard to screw it up.

    I like the idea of the article of having Independents claim tax exemption on the grounds that the church is tax exempt. My guess is that the case would be won, and the Independent would get tax exemption granted. I don’t see the church losing its status just because an Independent claims they too are a church.

  256. Yea, this talk is very much in alignment with tech – using a completely different tack and terminology.

  257. Yes – great win. We are dealing with the stuff of life, and DM and the ‘droids are treating it like a sick, twisted theme park.

  258. I do take responsibility for telling you to “park the sugar at the front door”. So in my own way I have this conjured up . If that resolves anything.

  259. And Jim, Just to keep the accounting straight, since you are BLAMING me for not being trained: “A housewife who does not have professional level skill in Scientology could not expect to run a wholly successful family………

    1. I am someone’s wife and I have been for 18 years. Are your spousal stats better than mine?

    2. I do have a family I have managed for 13 years as my children are 13.
    You haven’t raised any kids.

    Why the hell are you sending me this cram?

    3. You list the check sheets you completed in the Church while you were on lines. I will list mine. Let’s see who has the most training.

    You list the checksheets you have completed in a standard courseroom with a course supervisor inthe Independent Movement, I will list mine.

    Let’s get the math and accounting straight on this blame game.

    I don’t believe you have had more training than I have.

    Prove it.

  260. Sorry, disregard this post, I put it on the wrong thread. I will move it to the right place.

  261. And Jim, As far as YOU reminding ME of “professional skills”……… for real? You just spent two months here working as a “professional” for me. I know exactly how professional you are. And I know exactly how you managed the trust I placed in you. Again, you do not have the altitude to influence me. I alsi think it is very unfair that you drag this treason into this arena and even manage to get other to contribute to it unwittingly with so much omitted data. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. You don’t have to stretch it out between Canada, Texas, and anchor points across the planet.

  262. Second that!

  263. Marty,
    I haven’t had time to read all of the comments but this is one hell of a good post, getting great TAA.
    Thank you! 🙂

  264. I reject your indication that I am an overt product. You can recite all of the words and HCOB’s and books from here to eternity. The proof is in the pudding. Let’s take your life dynamic by dynamic and compare stats. Bring it on. You show me which dynamic you are more upstat in right now Jim than me and why. Come on, let’s do the math. Let’s look at actual stats.

  265. +1

  266. Jim, all is ask is this. If you have the right to to put your sandal to my throat and cut off my speech because you are on such a higher plain, tell everyone why. Why you have done so much better than me that elevates you so far above me. That you even have the right to judge me.
    Your stats must be far beyond mine to put you in such a holy position above me. Tell me where I fucked up but you did not wearing the same hat. If it’s “patty cake” shit let us know. Then you can come here and bypass me and take on raising some children and being someone’s wife
    What the fuck are you committed to anyway? No wife, no kids, ….you stand in judgment of me like some fucking unich mother fucker. You have no rights to judge me.

  267. You mention something that is actually by my observation part of a trap. If you do not care about what you think then you have no attention on your thoughts and you think what comes up. The only attention is on the point that if you communicate your thoughts you might be in trouble or you may face a not so cool reaction from the person you communicate to your thoughts. But the day you are more or less convinced that your thought possibliy might have an impact on the real universe you from that time on have lots of attention on your thoughts and thinking.
    And this idea that thought has an impact on the real universe is not a Scientology only thing. Currently on the internet you can find hundreds of videos and documents from different esoteric or non esoteric „schools“ that tell us one way or the other that our way of thinking is influencing the envirnoment around us.
    Consider your thoughts and think about something as a measurment device. Manipulating the scale or the calibarition of that device changes the measurment but not the real thing you measured.
    A little sample: I had to coach a student on the whole track dating e-meter drill. He could not do it. He had a lot of think going on to figure out the reason it did not work. But nothing did change. You could now say, he had the idea „I never will be able to do that“ and say, that this idea caused the drill to fail. But in fact something else had been the reason. After 1 hour or so of repeating the drill over and over again I could see in his mind the reason he could not handle that drill. I pointed to that thing in his mind and he had a look at it. (this had been no thought or think but a real visible thing with mass and energy in his mind. Shure it had ideas attached.) As he had a look at the „thing“ he could make it disappear. The energy contained in that thing made him move the body very violently in the chair that he almost fell off the chair. After he blew it he had no trouble to do this drill.
    The western society is currently pushed hard into that „think the right thought“ trap.

  268. Please put your dagger back in the sheath. There are better enemies than me. I am even on your side to free,

  269. Rita Wagner

    + 1 🙂

  270. EJC – I agree with you from a slightly different stand point. I had a cognition (that works for me) that “being willing to experience anything” had to do with TR0. I think of the thetan as being the driver of a car (body & mind). If the thetan cannot hold its position (i.e is unwilling to be there to confront whatever is happening) then the thetan flinches and relinquishes a bit (or a lot) of control and the body gets its paint scraped and bumper bashed. I agree we should be able to move freely up and down the tone scale, and I agree that as you get cause over one tone level you can operate further up. If I handle “fear” then I don’t need to experience “fear” in a fearful situation if I can just be willing to experience the fearful situation. Then I can make the right decisions because I am there – per TR0 – and can make the best decisions as to what should be done. Some call it having “presence of mind” – I call it “presence of Being”. Same applies to PTS / SP tech. We naturally recoil from an SP – in the recoil the Being flinches and relinquishes control over the body – makes mistakes, becomes ill. Thats why slight gentle cause is enough to handle it – one just needs to be there willing to confront. I think being willing to experience anything means being able to confront, keep TR0 in and not flinch – and I can be angry or not, sad or not – the choice remains. Unlike being told to be “cold chrome steel”. Firstly its MEST, secondly, it admits no ARC, thirdly what happened to choice?, fourthly – how do you get to be anywhere above 0.0 on the tone scale on other determinism?

    So I am with you on your viewpoint.

  271. Plus another agree!

  272. Tom Gallagher

    I’ll be on the lookout for a cockroach wearing a tuxedo.

  273. Les,
    What you do every day, to deliver an honest product with Scientology tech, as an independent SCIENTOLOGIST, in the whole scheme of things is and will be remembered as one of the most penetrating of all nails in this attempted monopoly of the subject by this twisted being, David Miscavige.

    As to you lasting at Int; I imagine we’d be right beside each other, running on the decks, looking forward to 5 hours of auditing coming up, having pushed through the day and our morale soaring.

  274. Brian,
    Good to have you back on your high horse! I like your wisdom. In the Theravada tradition which I follow, mindfullness is the key to the meditative states. Some start practiice with concentration on the breath which the Buddha Gotama highly recommended. From that base, it
    is possible to reach the higher levels

    May all beings be well and happy!
    George M. White

  275. Li'll bit of stuff

    Errol, while you, Jim and me have a similar attitude when
    it comes to the delivery of TR’s done tough & standard,
    please try to get that there ARE those people who just
    happen to have “case” as a real obstacle to actually
    doing these maker / breaker of drills. To try to force
    someone to do any thing against their own agreement /
    self determinism, is a recipe for (the) resulting ARC X’s.

    For sure, Jim, thee & me may just suck up such an
    experience, without a blink, but what about those who
    don’t? PROPERLY handled,( ie; with due ARC & KRC )
    those more skittish, may yet come through, and make
    damn fine Auditors. (analogy)>Coming from a family background of horse racing, as I do, you may also happen to know that some of the most temperamental, skittish,”ARC x’y” horses around, also happen to be the ones that cross the finish line first, break records, and are therefore “REAL” winners, no doubt about it!
    (the only proviso is…they have to be handled “right”)

    For the essence of this “skittishness” please see my posting above of 27 July, at 5.05 pm. and just how
    badly this can go wrong for a (potential) Auditor.

    Errol, I refer to Ron’s advice given on “judgement”:-
    ” Judge men(sic) by what they think of help… The good
    can help. The bad will not. Or if they do, they “help”
    only to betray. —“Help” (Change Magazine}.

    BTW, 10 months of watching laser sharp Marty in action,
    has taught me a thing or two about cutting thru’ the BS
    and divisive games people play. VERY alert man, IMHO.
    Calvin B. Duffield

  276. Calvin,
    I just re-read some of your posts. I was wrong, there are several here that I like very much. In particular your reference to PAB 151, Step Four – Handling Originations. Spot on.

    In a sort of explanation of this cycle we’re involved in on this thread, I’m “practicing”. Holding two terminals apart, getting a flow going, speeding it up, slowing it down. I can’t very well be fully Pan Determined though, as that ends the whole thing. So, maintaining a distance, “not knowing” the other side, and the rest of these aspects of the game of life among thetans in this universe, as considered by us thetans, is what I’m doing and observing.

    Consider it as a drill in the Opening Piece, i.e., all sorts of emotions are avoided, not-ised, and shut off, and therein lies the barriers to make a game, that eventually one forgets he’s playing.

  277. I watched Brene’s video again with my wife. I love her. Just sent link to a couple of friends.

    You guys on this blog and you Marty bring me to gratitude. To think that Scientologists would be sharing thoughts and truth from those outside their group, is evidence of true seekers of Truth.

    And this ecumenicism will be the very thing that brings Scientologybinto the main stream and resurrect it from ideological ruin.

    Thank you

  278. Li'll bit of stuff

    Nice ‘Thinking’ George!!

  279. Li'll bit of stuff

    Sure, Brian, and couldn’t happen for a nicer group,
    if you please—–The INDIES!

  280. martyrathbun09

    Of course, I agree.

  281. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Anat. I appreciate it.

  282. Thanks Tom! This video is FASCINATING. What a contrived world we live in!

  283. Love it Joe!!
    You are too cool!!

  284. Catherine,
    Whoa Nelly, whoa! Look, the kernel of the issue, you’ve been involved with Scn since you were 14 you say. OK, in those decades, or in the next, surely you can squeeze in the what, several months it takes to do the Acad Levels, with the TRs Course in, and a real two hour TRO done. Then audit the materials.

    Then you could do a BC at some point, and really understand this GPM stuff (it’s “opp term” for example), and unravel that whole body of material.

    You ARE a good being, and have toughed it out, experienced, worked hard, and accomplished much. The Acad Levels, then audit, and I’m sure as sure can be, the fullest of the real power you innately possess will expand logarithmically and that would be good all around the Dynamics.

  285. martyrathbun09

    I think you all should take this private.

  286. Errol,
    I can take another view of this and consider that since, per Dn 55, ALL aberration resides in the area of Comm, then yes, TRs would parallel the thetan’s experience. In fact, it could “run it out” so to speak in that TRs drill each part of a non-aberrative Comm.

    Training is at least 50% of this whole Bridge to anywhere you want.

  287. Calvin,
    This is a superb post. Nicely put, and all due respect to you.

    It is my experience in Supervising the Training Routines, that very, very seldom is it a “case” issue. In fact, as you probably know, in Study Series 2, CONFRONTING, the very much observable facts are stated: “Thus “confronting” is actually the ability to be there comfortably and perceive.
    Amazing reactions occur when conscious effort is made to do this. Dullness,
    perception trouble, fogginess, sleep and even pains, emotions and convulsions can occur when one knowingly sets out to BE THERE AND COMFORTABLY PERCEIVE with the various parts of a subject.
    These reactions discharge and vanish as one perseveres (continues) and at last, sometimes soon, sometimes after a long while, one can be there and perceive…”

  288. “…are we chillin’? (That’s “have we achieved some modicum of duplication in a comm cycle.)”

    To translate for the jazz musicians: “You dig?”

  289. Catherine,
    Let’s take Marty’s suggestion below and move this off the blog.

  290. Great thoughts and clarification. May I add that perhaps LRH *was* a charlatan in some ways, in some parts of his life. It is sure easy enough to point out the many falsities of his claimed biography, as Scn haters love to point out. Maybe he *was* paranoid schizophrenic.

    Maybe he could be all those things, and STILL come up with a body of work that can in fact change lives for the better. Maybe he was (as John P. loves to say) batshit insane, but he still managed to identify deep truths.

    My favorite quote from someone who knew LRH is by John Galusha who said about Ron, “He was what he was; he did what he did, and he was my friend.”

    My point is, does it truly matter?


  291. Wow, I gotta say this post got some TA – both high and low!

    I watched this video again with my wife yesterday. It really is profound. I love that she is very disciplined with her research. I love that there are people who are willing to run this stuff to ground and document everything.

    Her terms are very feminine, which is a nice dose of Yin to Scientology’s Yang. “Vulnerability” is a very direct way to describe “Acceptance of risk.” A lot of “life coaches” will tell you to move through your fear and be willing to risk. The descriptive “be vulnerable” really synthesizes that concept in spades, and leaves no exit.

    I lot of Scientologists have a poisoned view of “Tone 40” because of unflat (or misunderstood) TR 8 and because it was usurped by the SO to mean “forcible execution of ‘Make It Go Right!'” The SO valence is definitely not Tone 40. Tone 40 is “Serenity of Beingness”. The SO version is Seinfeld’s “SERENITY NOW!”.

    “Serenity of Beingness”. When we add the yin to this, we get Mother Gaia. We get 100% Love, 100% understanding, 100% grantingness of beingness. At an absolute level, we get 100% duplication, which then as-is’s everything (I am glad absolutes are unobtainable!). Loving kindness. Mindfulness. Pure intention.

    Being vulnerable is being open – not putting forward a valence as a via, not hiding behind anything, willingness to accept what others think of you, willingness to accept what you are, including your own flaws. Acceptance of imperfection. These last two are hers – but it really fits in overall, and is a nice addition.

    This talk has been rattling in my brain for days – it is very interesting!

  292. Yes, Les – it is an extremely slippery slope for the Church of Scientology corporation. It shifts back and forth between business/corporate law and religious freedom based on perceived advantage. It touts religious freedom for itself while denying religious freedom for any others it cannot directly control.

    It is important to note that the Church has not attempted a lawsuit to stop you, Marty, and many others from practicing the religion of Scientology. The only efforts have been smear campaigns mostly to stem the exodus of Church members from the Church.

    Even when Marty and Mike threw down the gauntlet, there was no lawsuit:

    “There was really one reason for being so overt about it. And Miscavige’s latest psychotic behavior serves as the perfect prompter to say why that occurred. That is line 23b of the marriage certificate, which asks for the name and title of the person performing the ceremony. The answer in bold print is, MICHAEL J. RINDER, MINISTER OF INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY. That certificate has long-since been signed, sealed and delivered by the Clerk of the Pinellas County Florida Court to us in Texas. It is the first of a number of precedents being put in place to establish the absurdity and futility of Miscavige attempting to use COMMERCIAL law to dictate who may or may not refer to themselves as Scientologists.”

    As well, from what I have been able to read up on, the Church did lose the Mayo lawsuit on this very basis and were forced to settle with him outside of court. It looks like Mayo was unable to continue to bear the costs of the court case and was in no position to reject the offered settlement. The precedent was set and the Church could not afford to lose at appeal.

  293. martyrathbun09

    Nice post GH

  294. Hi Jim,
    This is on response to your food for thought comment to me.
    I agree that being unreasonable on things is good and I’m not asking you to be reasonable.
    I agree that if everyone held their postions earlier then we would be in much better shape.
    My point is if you want to convince or get someone to do something that you feel is pro-survival, it is better to stay in ARC with them and use reason to get them to “see” it rather than try to use force or inval to get them to do it. My reasoning for this is that I just don’t see it working. Witness, your comm cyle here with the Oracle. If your intention was to get her to have a cog, I don’t think you were successfull.
    If your intention was to show people that you are serious about the whole thing ,maybe that was successfull. I don’t really see what you accomplished except upsetting someone who is a team mate here with us who was expressing a viewpoint. Can you tell me wht you feel you accomplished with this cycle?
    Your friend,

  295. Yes lil bit, the Indies! You must excuse my sImple NY mind that still thinks the “you guys” means everybody! I will be more aware of that in future posts. Thank you:-)

  296. This is a wonderful talk …Thank you for posting this video.

    Vulnerability is being there and being willing to experience anything ….And admitting to it (Flow 0, in comm with self)

    Hence, I appreciate the point Marty Rathbun makes, that the Communication Course as developed and intended by pure Scientology offers tools to exercise this foundation for the wonderful journey of self and life discovery.

    Wholehearted, I love that.

  297. Too late for that. It’s already been made into a movie!

  298. For anyone interested in downloading the 4 part video series “The Century of Self,” it is available at this link:

    Great series! Thanks for posting the link to it earlier on this thread!

  299. George, what a blessing that you love and enjoy your teaching and practice. I honor that indeed!

  300. TY for your great comments Jim Logan. I do believe that “help” would be
    staying tough on training drills and not soft. However I regret any malice

  301. Very interesting! Thanks!

  302. Li'll bit of stuff

    Wendy, and E.J,
    I concur with your views thoroughly, and in particular mirror much of what you have felt, Wendy..
    As a matter of fact the “car” analogy, is exactly
    what I have used when disseminating Scn concepts
    to a person being introduced for the first time..

    When discussing the tone scale, though, this was
    compared the car’s gearbox.(assuming the person
    was thoroughly acquainted with driving vehicles!)
    The person was asked if they had driven a vehicle
    with an automatic gearbox, and if they noticed just how the gears (tone) would shift automatically, according to the load (llfe situation) that the car (organism), was presented with.
    They often originated, that sometimes the gears
    kept changing unnecessarily, or at inopportune
    times, which became annoying, such as when
    flipping constantly between 3rd & 4th gear (kicking
    between anger (1.5) & antagonism(2.0))

    This was the perfect opportunity to ask whether
    they would not have preferred to have had a
    manual gearbox, where they could have engaged,
    a gear of their OWN choice (emotional tone) which
    would have better suited the driving conditions
    (load, or life conditions)

    It frequently happened, that the person would
    “get” the connotation immediately, as they smiled
    and then originated the question as to whether
    it was at all possible to choose or “control” their
    emotions??? —-and interest in Scn had begun!

    Assuming the person COULDN’T drive a vehicle,
    then I would use the “lift” (elevator) in a high rise apartment block analogy, travelling from the basement(apathy.05) to the penthouse(serenity
    2.0), through all the floors(tone levels) in between!

    Without going too overboard with this, it can be
    seen that a person could easily be invited to
    play along with this scenario, and participate
    by making mock-ups of their own, thereby
    becoming cause over deciding which “floor
    level” they wanted to visit, or STAY at, all of
    their own choice, (self determinism)!!!

    Obviously, there are tons of ways one can
    get really creative about this approach, both
    subjectively & objectively, and that is what is
    so much fun about disseminating Scientology!

    Speaking of fun, Wendy, how did you like the
    SHARK feeding frenzy spectacle at Newlands
    on Saturday, when the KZN Sharks gave the
    Stormers a “gory” exit from their hopes at the
    final, and in their own back yard, home to the
    fearsome ‘Great White’ ???

    Lots of fun times ahead—-for all of us,hey?
    Best, Calvin.

  303. Li'll bit of stuff

    Correction, Serenity, = 40.0 apologies for the typo!

  304. Tony,
    Sorry, I’d missed your comm in response to the “food for thought” ideas. If you see this, write to me at

  305. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yes, Marty, and li’ll davey the dwarf, has turned
    serv fac.’s into a veritable art form, exalting them
    to “20 x new stellar heights of PERFECTION!!)

  306. Li'll bit of stuff

    Jim, mistakes are to be learned from! Good to see reason factoring in Just continue, and you will have your
    own cogs in handling THE person who
    is presenting to you,accordingly.
    Per Tony, (genuine) ARC, works best!

  307. Li'll bit of stuff

    Always welcome. bro.’

  308. Li'll bit of stuff

    Plussity, plus, plus and still yet ANOTHER plus!!

  309. Li'll bit of stuff

    Nice going Pumpkin. You’re doing just great, BTW!
    …..unlike diminutive davey the dwarf, who is doing
    the exact opposite, ie;

    Dodging (self fired) dangerously destructive foot-
    bullets, detonating in a deafening demolition of
    his (deemed) essential applebox, from which he
    doggedly continues to dish out his demented
    doggy-do, in the hope of somehow derailing the
    defiant, unbowed, uncowed, unco-operative,C/I
    “squirrels”, the In”DEE”s , who just damn well
    outright REFUSE to” F#&%**G switch off that F*%^#@G laser” focussed on his dirty trickery,
    for all the world to see!

    Sleep well, li’ll davey….sleep….well!

  310. Li'll bit of stuff

    Brian, BTW, wasn’t serious —just a rhyme!

  311. Li'll bit of stuff

    Shrieeeeeekkkk!( take it anyway you like,bro’)

  312. The historian in me (again) makes me use tone 40 on you lot.


    It may be mest but Anonymous calls it DOX

    Cat Daddy likes DOX too like any Anon.

  313. 🙂 Tru dat! (Which I think is latinisation ( ?! lol) of “That’s true!”)

  314. Li'll bit of stuff

    Nanette. Thanks & I love you too!

  315. Is that the nominative, or the ablative? 🙂

  316. David Franchi

    Thank you so much for sharing this!!! I experienced a sudden release after reading your post. Spending my whole childhood in SCN Inc. and 4 1/2 years of Sea Org as an adult, I was turned into an obedient robot and when I got out I kept wondering if that was the aftermath of the Sea Org or just me. Now I know I wasn’t the only one to have that feeling. In order to start feeling something at the beginning I had to ride some of the fastest, tallest, scariest roller coasters in the world, driving fast on circuit and skydiving (I strongly recommend this last one). Still 7 years after disconnecting from the suppressor I’m not completely healed…

  317. Urban Dictionary: tru dat
    bastardized version of “true that” which is a bastardized version of “i agree wholeheartedly”

    And I have no idea what:
    nominative (Generally, the noun “that is doing something” is in the nominative, and the nominative is the dictionary form of the noun. MARTIN is confusedly studying grammar terms)
    ablative (a name given to cases in various languages whose common characteristic is that they mark motion away from something, though the details in each language may differ. The grammatical terms wiped the smile FROM MARTINs face)

    And I still don’t understand 😦

    But I appreciate the contribution of humour!!!

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