Love And Respect For Family

Check out this article on one of the fastest growing religions in America:

The Amish don’t spend millions each year to promote themselves.

The Amish don’t build gaudy, multi-million dollar shrines to themselves with state-of-the-art a/v gadgets to cajole people in.

The Amish don’t proselytize at all.

Apparently, the growth of the Amish is simply due to their nurturing and respect for their families and decent treatment of their own.

Imagine that.

That imagining reminded me of the Village Voice interview with Mimi Faust of the reality show Love and Hip Hop Atlanta.  She recounted her childhood when her mother abandoned her for Scientology Inc.’s para-military priesthood (the Sea Organization).   It reminded particularly of this bit of street-wise wisdom that she imparted:

I asked Mimi what she thinks of Scientology today. She didn’t want to badmouth it, and assumed that some people find something positive in it. But she pointed out that it was her understanding Scientology wants to unite people. “Well, how are you going to keep the world together if you can’t keep your family together?” Mimi’s interview at VV

113 responses to “Love And Respect For Family

  1. This makes total sense that true love and respect shown inside the family will be an inspiration for those who want to better themselves and others.
    While the LACK of it (like writing reports, disconnecting and spying on family members) will distance good people.
    Demonstrating apparent love and respect (the 1.1 Corporate Scientologists are trained to live) will create the effect of repulsion.
    Now imagine how many REAL Scientologists would have been in the world today, after 60 years of correct true application of ARC, and Scientology would have been the most expanded Religion (or applied philosophy) in the world.
    We too easily blame the SP Midget, but I think that many (like me) could and should have applied the price of freedom and so we should demonstrate more love and respect via ARC now, and try the best to repair the damage and get back into expansion.

  2. martyrathbun09

    Nice, Izhar.

  3. Izhar, you are exactly right. Instead of fleeing Cof$ to protect my children from the future of neglect and disregard I witnessed, had it shown the love and respect the Amish do, I would have embraced it. There would be three more Scientologists in my family alone. Of the people I knew at our mission, just a few of their kids are actually involved in Cof$ (in the S.O.). Most of them reject Scientology and live rather derelict lives – symptoms of neglect by their parents and certainly not the happy, shiny people promoted on TV ads and event videos.

  4. Mimi’s story is pretty heart-wrenching – and disgusting. It took a lot of courage to say NO and get herself out of there and move on with her life. Thank you for speaking up, Mimi. I wish you all the success and happiness in the world!

  5. The Radical Church of Scientology actively destroys families.

    A friend of mine, a single mother with four children, had cancer. Over the years, she received a number of intensives of invalidative, evalutative “auditing” at one of the RCS’s advanced orgs. She protested because she knew the “auditing” she was submitted to was crap. She got sick many times and she was hospitalized and operated on at least twice. It was heavy stuff. And then, on top of that, came the cancer. The church didn’t do a thing, didn’t try to help her. She was considered “troublesome”. Fortunately, a seasoned Class VI (who left the church a few months ago) took it upon himself to help her recover. He was there when she woke up right after the operation and gave her assists. He then took good care of her and greatly contributed to her full recovery. While she was recovering, the IAS were regging her daughter. They told her that her mother was downstat and out-ethics, that’s why she got sick all the time. Now that’s what I call compassion.

    My friend is a fantastic being. Despite all the suppression she got from the church, she is alive and well. She still has a daughter who’s a Borg and who obeys the Collective, but her other kids have been smart enough to sever links with the church. She hasn’t spoken out yet, but one day she may. And it’ll be quite a story.

    By destroying families, the RCS has become the enemy of mankind.

    The church has become an enemy of mankind.

  6. But they have something like disconnection, called shunning.

  7. Gern Gaschoen

    My family have had nothing to do with Scientology ever since I told them that I’d disconnect from them if they didn’t stop harassing me about being a cult member. Boy, was that a mistake.

    They’re cool now, though, since I told them “Mom, Dad, I’m sorry I was a member of that repressive Cult-of-Miscavige. I’m still a Scientologist though”, and they’re cool with that.

  8. martyrathbun09

    What do you mean by ‘but’?

  9. People Helper

    Here is an interesting article: which discusses a hate crime where one group of Amish cut the beards of other Amish. Not nearly as bad as what RCS does to indies or ex’s through their toxic disconnection policy and the squirrel busters, etc.

    The reason the trial is taking place is because one group of Amish felt the other was not the correct type of Amish. Just like a Church and “Pope” we all know accusing everyone not playing his game and orchestrating hate attacks.

  10. I always thought all those letters and despatches signed “ML” or “Love” or some variation of that were pretty fake, considering that those same corporate Scns who “love” you will turn their back at the drop of a hat.

  11. Ahh . . . family. What a wonderful second dynamic illusion. Surely, for the betterment of us all it is a worthy sacrifice that we follow LRH;’s example when it comes to family and move on from such MEST considerations. After all, it was he who said in his 10 December 1952 PDC lecture that “families are not good groups” but, rather, the realm of that lower, half-awake creature, the GE. If Scientology is to flourish we need to rise above such sentimental notions

  12. “Well, how are you going to keep the world together if you can’t keep your family together?”

    ~ Word!!

  13. True story from Mimi.

  14. “They” ? There are many different schisms among the Amish: the Old Order Amish, New Order Amish, Kaufman Amish Mennonites, Amish Mennonites, etc. Current mainstream and progressive Amish communities no longer use shunning. Let’s not speak in generalities here.

  15. Culture: 2. the customs, institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or group. (Oxford dictionary)

    What kind of a culture do we find inside the church of miscavology?

    Controlling bodies, punishing bodies, owning bodies, approval from bodies, worshipping bodies (and buildings)…with the “masses” at a level of sacrifice. It is nobel to sacrifice one’s body, family, money, time, energy for the group because the group is all and the individual nothing.

    The ARC of the group at large is entirely MEST oriented. Sacred cows abound.

    Some of the older orgs, missions and groups exemplified a truly diverse and theta atmosphere of ARC, compassion, help, competence and caring. These have been mostly if not completely crushed. One is assimilated into the Borg, or one is destroyed.

    A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war is not possible at a tone level ranging from -1 to -6 on the tone scale. It is a spiritual evolution from 2.9 to 20.0.

    It’s going to be very interesting to watch and participate in the practice of scientology in the independent field. I know what kind of culture we are creating here. All of us (now 6 staff) are moving in exactly the same direction toward full spiritual freedom with willing, uptone co-ordination. It’s an experiment…a pilot project. I’m just sure it will work.

    Interesting that you would reference the Amish, since one of the plans in our future includes a rather large organic farming operation capable of feeding ourselves and many other folks in the community. Well fed, well rested, FNing, studentable, sessionable, not PTS, in harmony, in ARC with eachother and with the community.

    The future will be uptone and bright if we postulate it that way.


  16. And when did the policy of disconnection begin?

  17. Buddhism is also a religion that does not proselytize at all. However the number of Buddhists is growing. From ARIS reports for the U.S.A., they were 404,000 in 1990, 1,082,000 in 2001 and 1,189,000 in 2008.

    Without dissemination!

    The keynotes of Buddhism are Love, Compassion, Interdependence.
    These are naturally pervasive values.

    I have chosen Buddhism as a replacement for Scientology.
    However I am looking forward a possible synergy between both paths.

    For example the daily practice of meditation could possibly benefit from scn processes. Some Buddhist topics such as vacuity are possibly better understood when using scn axioms. The awareness of interdependence prevents us from developing inflated egos, etc.

  18. I saw a wonderful show on PBS about the Amish and yes they used no phones or computers and used horse and buggy when commuting anywhere. Don’t you think we need to shield this kind of population from the Mighty Midget? I mean that is how he holds power over the sheeple; no phones, no computers,and restricted use of automobiles. IAS would have to pay Davey with livestock. Bill

  19. Amish produce great products as well.
    For example, we get Amish milk at our supermarket.

    Theravada Buddhist population is growing around the Tampa Bay area.
    Our first Vihara(Temple) started 12 years ago. We have another
    Temple which opened last year. I have spoken to hundreds of
    college students who also visit us.
    We do not actively seek new members. The Buddha simply
    said “come and see”. That is our entire marketing program.

    May all Amish be well and happy!
    George M. White

  20. Remember a year or two ago when someone posted a link to a town for sale? That’s the idea I like! We have a town and operate as townspeople. From there it would spread.

  21. The Way To Happiness suggests love and honor of family. Those books are peddled from California to Red China. A real bait and switch when you get in and find out you will need to throw your family under the bus if they get in anybodies way. And there are Scientologists who travel with that viewpoint. It can’t be the “tech” , it has got to be your f&*^%d up family member or you if things don’t fly. They do not even consider maybe it is THEM. And your only true daddy will be David Miscavige. The problem is, if you come from a family where the men really are very competent and bright, switching into that substitute becomes an impossibility. There is not anyone in most people’s families that is like a David Miscavige. If there were, they are usually in jail or have domestic restraining orders against them holding them in check.

  22. Whatever happened to the sea org ! I have been wondering for years what happened to it . I remember when the sea org started and it was a great thing and now !

  23. This is interesting, because the Amish live austere lives. I can see the desirability of withdrawing from the craziness of the technical society and living a life of faith and commitment.

    I have had the pleasure of working with many people of strong faith. I worked for Thomas Kinkade for seven years. He was a very Christian man, and most of the people working with him were faithful church-going Christians. It was clear to me that their faith was genuine, that their sense of mission was genuine, and the people were very open to each other. I left over three years ago, but we remain close. I am a better man for working there. Oh sure, there were challenges, and it was a challenge to reconcile the business aspects of the company with its religious purposes – but then, hey, I worked for a number of Scientologist companies, and frankly, Kinkade did it better.

    Look, we can learn a lot from Christianity. To me, Christ’s story is incredibly compelling – a man who bucks the status quo and preaches the truth, a man who God sent to Earth because (in John 3:16): “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” I have quoted 1 Corinthians 13 here and on my blog before, but it is something that to me marks the difference between a corporate ‘droid and an enlightened Scientologist – indeed, an enlightened person:

    13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    This, to me, is profound, and we can learn from the examples of Jesus and Apostle Paul. The “A” in “ARC” has been expunged from the church.

    (By the way, Mary Sue knew her bible, and I know she’d agree with me. Mary Sue was a good yin to Ron’s yang.)


  24. Li'll bit of stuff

    Izhar, bull’s eye on the key issue of all relationships.
    We often let so many OTHER factors become an
    impediment to ARC, instead of realizing that ALL really
    worthwhile endeavors in life, are enhanced by ARC!

  25. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for that Mark.

  26. martyrathbun09


  27. martyrathbun09

    Les – I sent you all an email yesterday, asking about an OT II L7 correction list. Please email me.

  28. martyrathbun09

    Unfair cherry picking and exploitation of lack of context.

  29. Li'll bit of stuff

    Truly beautiful relayed message Mark! The power
    of true love is never extinguishable by MEST, and is able to transcend it.

  30. This is an excellent point!
    I saw something the other day about Mother Teresa and she said something along the lines of don’t worry about how many people you can help just help someone and start with the person closest to you. I really like that!
    How many “good Scientologists” neglect their own family for the “greater good”?? This makes no sense whatsoever. I think this is the trickle down effect of the greed emanating from dm and carried into the average staff members universe. The greed having to be justified becomes “the greatest good to neglect your own for the benefit of the group”.

  31. There is so much about the Amish that can be admired. Working together and being able to be self sufficient.
    There are groups, called preppers, getting ready in case there is a problem. The Amish will always be ready & thus no stress with economics..
    In Scn I found it hard to work with other Scn, so I mostly did not. Seemed like people needed to charge the most and pay the least. There could be so many problems with people getting paid.
    Working as a true high ARC group sounds like a dream. We just need to learn it, drill it and do it.

  32. Hi Mark, er Grasshopper…
    Are you partially disclosing yourself? 🙂

  33. Li'll bit of stuff

    Therefore it WILL be so Les.

  34. Pingback: Love And Respect For Family « 31 Factors

  35. It never ceased to confound me that SO women were pressed to have abortions. Direct violation of DMSMH — giving engrams to another being.

    It is also a stupid practice tactically if you want your core of adherents to grow. Aside from moral objections to abortion or birth control, religions know that one of the ways to keep growing is to promote families and to promote size of families.

    Given that the SO policy is so obviously stupid and short-sighted, it almost makes one wonder if it was a deliberate (not stupid, but intentional) action taken to reduce the future size of the group.

  36. Utterly amazing story. What a seriously tough cookie. Stories like that make me think my SO career was a walk in the park.

  37. yeah, like the book, ‘It Takes a Village’ the point being that it doesn’t just take a family to raise a child, but a whole village in order to share each other’s talents, and to expose a child to a range of viewpoints, attitudes, and also maintaining the consistency of a close knit group.

  38. Beyond love, ARC and welcoming of families, most Christian churches also have that attitude toward anyone who walks in the door. I am still and always be a Scientologist because I know what truths I have experienced in Scientology and that can’t be taken away from me. But when I married a wonderful Christian woman a few years ago, I was blown away at how pleasant a group could be while attending her church.

    No one was pushing for anyone else to buy something. Donation requests were respectful and low key. The closest they got was asking for volunteers to help people.

    THAT is what we need to create in the scene which we begin now that we are free of that corporate nonsense!

  39. That’s true, Newbie. However, the Amish practice of “Meidung” is apparently only practiced in some of their sects, and Amish communities vary in the degree of severity and strictness of their shunning. However, that’s not the only issue I have with the idea of their “love and respect for family.”

    Marriages outside their faith are not allowed, which violates the sacred idea of unity and inclusion. Amish do not respect the equal rights of women. Amish do not allow women to hold positions of power. The four church offices of each group are reserved for men only. This comes from the ancient tribal idea from Genesis in the Bible that women are made in Man’s image (not God’s), and so are supposed to be subservient to men. I don’t consider this “respect” of their own. Wives are subhuman to Men.

    Extremely strict behavioral restrictions and community rules are imposed by their religion. They conditionally take care of their own only if you have their beliefs and strictly adhere to their practices. The Swartzentruber Amish are the extreme version of the Amish religion.

    Just like the fundamentalist Scientology Sea Org sect, which grew to authoritatively take over Scientology, other religions are also vulnerable to radical fundamentalists in their religion, who try to authoritatively take control and abuse their own members, such as narcissistic Amish leader, Sam Mullet who’s making the news over “beard-cutting attacks”:

    “That’s the power and control that he has over those people, because if he were to tell them right now to drink this poison Kool-Aid, they would do it.”

    ‘We’re locking our doors’ [Says a fellow Amish member]

    Abdalla has seen a lot in his 27 years as sheriff, but he says the stories he’s heard firsthand from inside Sam Mullet’s compound are the among the most bizarre.

    One came from a man who said Mullet put him in a chicken coop for 15 days in the dead of winter over a religious disagreement. The victim would not press charges.

    “He was convinced that (Mullet) was doing him a favor,” Abdalla said. “That’s like me hitting you in the head with a two-by-four and telling you I’m doing you a favor … and you agree and say, ‘Yes, you have done me a favor.’ That’s how domineering (he is).””

    The right thing Amish got right is that each congregation is independent and has its own leadership. There is no formal national head office. So at least each group can have their own version and extent of the extremity they want.

    IMO, I don’t consider the Amish as a model of love and respect for family, nor as a positive role model of behavior as a group.

    My own model of a religion for optimumal family love, respect, and peace are the ideas of unity and inclusion promoted by Bishop Carlton Pearson and Bishop John Shelby Spong.

  40. I remember what the sea org was about , in it one would work towards the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics , because one would be working at that they would be at the top of the tone scale most of the time and thats why it would be a great organisation .
    I think the problem has been that David Miscavige and probably other suppressive persons have been running the sea org and this has prevented members from working toward the greater good for the greater number of dynamics .
    When i was growing up i used to try and see what is the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics and when working at that i used to go up the tone scale and get spiritual gains from doing that , i knew to work at that from the sea org , thats where i learned about that and i intend to keep working at it for the next billion years .

  41. Mimi is exactly right.

    When I was riding my high and important horse in the Sea Org, my Mom surprised me with a caper. I received a package with few personal belongings and a letter, where she says it’s better for us to no longer be in contact, here please find some of the things I think you’d like to keep. I quickly lost all interest in those items and the world collapsed on me. I had just lost my Mom and any sense of personal value disappeared for the next five years which it took to remedy. I felt charlatan for working in a “church” and waking up to the fact that I had been “too busy” for loved ones. I mean that’s totally absurd!! I had neglected a very basic thing in life, seem ridiculous to have to say it, but you ought to include your family in your life. Well, that was my lesson at least.

  42. Observer 1776

    The dark side of Amish Pt.

    Amish shunning: Anna Dee Olson.

    Another Amish shunning.

    The Dark Side of the Amish: Blog.

    Google Amish shunning: 111,000 results

    Google dark side of Amish: 1,270,000 results

    Google Amish cult: 1,400,000 results

  43. Li'll bit of stuff

    Tony, you’ve been caught napping! Check out the posting on 28 August at 7.55 pm! Tch,tch!

  44. It’s truly amazing what the granting of beingness will do.
    I know of no substitute that even comes close to the beautiful existence of a loving family unit. A whole stack of those units under a common purpose – wow, that’s something to be really proud of & admire.
    Obviously many such as those that would sacrifice such a union for selfish, misguided group only objectives live in and create an ever increasing dark world. Solid and unrelenting, dealing almost solely in destruction, their tool in trade – the lie!
    Yeah… as I see it, the granting of beingness is a common denominator of anything good we humans get up to.

  45. Even when it was still ok to have children in the S.O. the way of growing a family the natural way was considered “SLOW RECRUITING”. Looking at this now it is obvious how stupid this attitude was. The Roman Catholic Church is the best example of how successful this way of growth is.

  46. Scientology has really never been “pro family”. Just look at what happened to Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. Or Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. Your spiritual future is more important than a meat body.

  47. Li'll bit of stuff

    This is a highly potent subject posting, Marty.
    The very essence of the cohesive nature of
    pure theta! What a real treat to see this flow
    unfolding, with such refreshing sincerity on
    your blog. In this case, MORE = GOOD!!!

  48. I think that is right on. Terrible down attitudes in management style (our maybe forced down with a fire house) are the reason that even our local Orgs have become as corrupt as the SO.

  49. one of those who see

    Hi Tony, Grasshopper is out in the Light – Mark Patterson. You can click on “Grasshopper” and it takes you to his blog where you can read his Declaration of Independence.

  50. Terrible = trickle

    Darn autocorrect.

  51. Robert Langdon


    I disagree with the Amish having any stronger family values than the Church promotes. Here’s a link:

    They practice excommunication and shunning in a very strong way – exactly what I disagree with in the COS. There’s also a show called Amish: Out of Order on National Geographic that’s worth watching. It documents excommunicated Amish that have to start life from scratch similar to a Scn getting declared SP and having no one to turn to.

  52. Sadly, you’ll see that kind of human error whichever religion you look into. Even Buddhism, which I have a profound love for, is not exempt.

    Recently screened in the UK was a programme where a documentary crew was invited in by an Amish family. This was considered to be a bad thing by their Church Elders (any interaction with media), but the father of the family explained his reasoning to the crew simply – he prayed, and he wanted the world to see Gods love. And he meant it; it wasnt an ego-based decision at all, he just wanted people to see the love they had for God.

    Nothing was cut from this documentary – the Amish belief in corporal punishment, the risk of disconnection due to their part in the TV show, it was all discussed. And the Amish family came out of it with integrity. In fact, their values seeme to make a lot of sense. They were a loving, close-knit, productive family unit.

    If I can remember the name, Ill post it up. It was a great piece of TV.

  53. “It is also a stupid practice tactically if you want your core of adherents to grow. Aside from moral objections to abortion or birth control, religions know that one of the ways to keep growing is to promote families and to promote size of families.”

    I wanted to say the exact same thing! If I was DM, and I wanted to disseminate, I’d have really dedicated Scientologists breeding like bunnies. Seriously. It just seems like basic common sense. Especially Sea Org members, surely? You mean to tell me if I get a bit of auditing once in a blue moon in an Org I can fully enjoy a family, but if I dedicate my life to LRH I don’t???

    If DM has half a brain, and Scn membership continues to decrease at current rates, I wouldn’t be surprised to see something change.

  54. A lot of people on here bringing up the issue of shunning or excommunication as a counterpoint to Amish family values.

    I’ll be honest, my first thought when I think about this issue isn’t “is excommunication always wrong?” but “WHY were they excommunicated?”

    It seems I (and I’ll bet a few people) have a bit of an unconscious bias – excommunication isn’t wrong as a process, but rather its application. and the thing is, that’s a different conversation altogether.

    Just a thought, but if cutting people from the group in certain circumstances is acceptable, then it’s just a matter if degree, as opposed to a completely different viewpoint being held. If that is the case, then surely ‘shunning’ isn’t a reason to write-off the Amish love of the family unit, or for that matter any part of Amish culture?

    Made me think. Thanks Marty & commentators 🙂

  55. scilonschools

    I know some peolple feel that Disconnection in Scientology is an ‘urban myth’, and that there are no hypnotic practices in any form of Scientology (LRH or Golden Age Tech) ,and that the RCS is not about breaking up family’s and enslaving people, but I suppose what’s true is what is true to you!!

  56. Interesting you should post this today. I am not wanting to inject politics here (really) but last night Marco Rubio said something in his speech that made me take notice and realize I might have a basic disagreement with LRH on the 2D. I don’t have the exact quote but basically LRH stated something to that effect that one improves the 1D and the 2D to do better on the 3D. In contrast Rubio said, “And we’re special — we’re special because we are united — we’re united not as a common race or ethnicity, we are bound together by common values. The family is the most important institution in society.” Now LRH also said that no dynamic is more important than another but I think, at least for staff, family is often seen as a distraction. IMHO this might be the achilles heal of Scientology as most non Scientologists consider family to be senior to groups. I believe this view often puts Scientology out of ARC with the world at large.

  57. However, that’s fine if you do it with transgressors.
    Even the scriptures gives advise to do so (see Matth 18,15 …).

    Plus, the link you posted says:
    ” However, the offenders are always welcomed back to the community if they repent.
    The Pennsylvania Amish are very reluctant to excommunicate and shun members. In fact, such extreme measures only occur on rare occasion.”

  58. Tom Gallagher


    I doubt, though, that the Amish are an organizationally chartered corporation and run by an internationally recognized sociopath. Moreover, I doubt that there’s a billion dollar slush fund at the disposal of a pope-like dramatizing criminal psychotic to destroy (utterly) any one of their folks who ‘get out of line’.

    Seems to me that they are keeping a sense of order, morals & ethics within their groups. More power to them.

    I live in southwestern Ohio, the state with the highest number of Amish. They are sane and stabilizing. That’s firsthand.

    By the way, I didn’t read that they, the Amish, enforce abortions as a matter of policy.

    Nor have I ever seen razor wire pointed inward on any of their properties.

  59. Tom Gallagher

    Two weeks ago I became a first time great uncle to my oldest nephew’s twin boys, Keenan and Quinn. This has served as a tremendous reminder and reinforcement of the importance of the 2nd dynamic, i.e. Family.

    I love my family and god help anyone or anything that tries to nullify that. Especially Radical Corporate Scientology.

  60. Yes !

    What I also like about the Amish is that they help each other when one of them builds a house.

    If you can, buy some vegetables from them which they grow in some traditional manner ( no food industry ). You will experience a tremendous strong taste which you never get from supemarket food.

  61. As I continue my journey through it all and beyond, I find the “Church” of Scientology has morphed into a HATE group. The HATE part of it directly penetrates the nucleus family.
    I am the recipient of a never ending stream of Emails of parents severed from their child in the “Sea org”. Children severed from their parents working 100 hour weeks in the Sea org.

    It is all divide, disconnect, sever the family line and give up your personal integrity to keel over to the demand of the “Church.”

    The “Church” automatically expects to take your children for the Sea Org. Sea Org recruiters literally THREATEN elligibility and your Spiritual FUTURE if you counter their recruit cycle as “enemy conduct.”
    Children in the Sea Org are immediately turned against their parents if their parents wake up to the Abuse, Vulture Culture regging, and a host of other enforcement and over the top CONTROL of their life.
    Children are considered Sea org possessions. The nucleus family is routinely destroyed.
    Let’s take the case of Heber Jentzsch.
    Heber was the first person from outside the Int base to be sentenced to the Hole. Heber was “summoned” to Int base from Los Angeles and kept there for long periods of time. Gary Morehead, “Jackson” ex-Security Chief of INT Base told me how Heber had on going punishments with no mercy for his age. Even in his late 60s, he was made to stand on his feet steam cleaning engines of the Sea Org buses. Heavy manual slave labor is a hallmark of Sea Organization “religious discipline.”
    While Miscavige called the shots over Heber’s life, he ruled over ever hour, every location, every comm line Heber had. After we divorced Heber re-married an Australian girl called Jane who worked at OSA. (Office of Special Affairs). She was previously the head of “CCHR” in Australia, which means she had to work at obliterating psychiatry in Australia.
    However Miscavige had other plans. Throwing Heber into SP Hole meant no communication outside the Gulag. 3 years went by, Jane Jentzsch had no communication from Heber. No Email, no voice mail, nada, zippo, nothing. The CULT of Miscavology can order cut communication just like that.
    Fed-up with being a “wife” on paper with no communication at all with a supposed “husband”, Jane dumped Office of Special Affairs” and Heber. She left the Sea Organization and OSA and routed out. Soon after, Jane’s daughter Alyssa from a previous marriage fled Bridge Publications. (escaped, called “blown” or “Blew” is Sea Org nomenclature.)
    Whereupon, Miscavige ordered that Heber divorce Jane Jentzsch which he complied with.
    There were no children in the marriage of Jane and Heber. Having babies is strictly forbidden.
    Alexander Jentzsch and his wife Andrea were forced by the “Church” of Scientology to abort Andrea’s pregnancy some 4 years ago so Alexander never had a child. Now that he is dead, the blood line of Alexander and Heber is completely shut down. A product the “Church’ routinely seeks.
    No successive generations.
    The Sea org policy than ran for years actually, decades, against pregnancy and enforced abortions effectively shuts down the blood line of the family.
    The “Church” HATES families and is stellar at splitting up families by flagrantly bad mouthing family members against each other under the guise of “Ethics handlings.”

  62. Mark Patterson?? Wow!!
    Hey Mark did we know each other in the early 80’s on the “Cont TTC” at Asho??

  63. My bad!!
    A guy has to sleep sometime!! 🙂

  64. I would like a full page add with pictures and all though. Much more dramatic!

  65. Tom Gallagher

    By the way, here’s a local headline that reinforces the sometimes necessary action of the concept of shunning:

    “Brother of accused murderer: ‘He’s a piece of human garbage’.”

    and here’s the link:|topnews|text|News

  66. I was on staff in Vancouver from 1973 to 1984 and to the best of my knowledge at no time was anyone ORDERED to disconnect from anyone.

  67. Amish A Secret Life

  68. Just speculating but your post has led me to believe that
    miscavige will be re-born as a ‘hungry ghost”
    A “hungry ghost cannot eat as their throat is as narrow as a pin
    but their stomach is as large as a drum”
    This seems to be his kammic profile.

    May all hungry ghosts be well and happy!
    George M. White

  69. Man, that sounds good Les!

  70. When Salmon Rushdie published the novel “Satanic Verses” in 1988, the
    Ayatollah Khomeini pronounced a death sentence on him, all the while screaming blasphemy, heresy and apostasy. The actions of the CO$
    seem to be on the same wavelength and do about as much for civilization.

  71. Yeah. I remember the same thing from that era. People were encouraged to HANDLE their difficulties with others. LRH had previously cancelled disconnection. While not forbidden, disconnection was discouraged in most cases as a less responsible way of handling such situations. Then disconnection was “re-instated”, apparently by LRH, in HCOPL 10 Sept 1983, PTSNESS AND DISCONNECTION. I have always been suspicious of the authenticity of this HCOPL and at very least curious about the circumstances of its issue. This later issue is the one where it says that one is committing a suppressive act if one does not disconnect from someone who has been declared SP by HCO. Hell, what if HCO is wrong! (Duh.)
    I have always been suspicious of the authenticity of this policy letter written less than 3 years before he left his body (“died”), and whether Ron actually saw the final edit.

  72. Captain Non-Sequitur

    the new ethics book states the 2d is Creativity as it’s opening line of the definition.

    The old ethics book never mentioned this as part of the 2d definition.

    In either case, both definitions state the sexual act itself and the rearing of children. No mention of love or great ARC or affinity.

    The Amish, well I guess they like Sex as they have lots of children. I have not researched if they have “Love” or ARC for such.

  73. Captain Non-Sequitur

    I consider myself a Furyan. Nobody is going to take my soul.

    2 minutes into the scene.

  74. Its the SEA ORG in my opinion. And the SP who runs it.
    How many people who signed a 1 billion year contract had a subjective concept of how long a billion years is when they did so?
    How may people who have encouraged others to sign a 1 billion year contract had a subjective concept of how long a billion years is when they did so? And did they make sure that their “recruits” really had a conceptual understanding of this?
    Did they have any recall of how many civilizations, let alone organizations, can rise and fall and be forgotten in such a period of time? I am sure that most of those groups said that they were different too, and would last forever…..
    The point is not whether the S.O. will last forever.
    And I am not saying that ALL S.O. recruits did not have a full subjective concept what a billion years is.
    The point is that someone cannot self-determinedly agree to something which they do not understand. It is called an enforced reality.
    And trying to enforce that particular reality which could impact, at very least, their whole life upon a child or young person is child abuse.

    Mimi is a being who embodies the principles Ron speaks about in his essay “What is Greatness”. She is a great being in the true sense of the word. Despite her mother’s troubled state of mind, Mimi was a wonderful and loving daughter. I would be proud to have such a daughter and I am sure that, on some level, her mother knew this and felt the same way.
    Thank you for standing up and speaking out, Mimi.

  75. Captain Non-Sequitur

    I loved my sisters while growing up. We had disagreements, but they were usually because of arguments or out arc with the parents. Whatever, we survived. We keep in comm. But, truthfully since being in Scientology, well that kind of went downhill. I’m in from 1986, timeframe to note.

    Since that time 1986, while being a part of it all (the COS), why my views changed on life, and it unfortunately didn’t include my best friends, now that I think about it, my sisters that I grew up with. I tryed to tell them.

    But here we are now in PT. I think I need to repair that relationship with my family, my friends from day one when I came into this world.

  76. LRH also said something like (I’m not quoting) sex was invented in order to enslave thetans and all these games with bodies which we call life belong to the realm of the lower, and they are part of the traps belonging to the descending spiral.

    Similar religious philosophies are very old. Some satanic and gnostics religious philosophies say that god created this universe for enslaving us. Some religious philosophy say that this world is just an illusion.

    From the everything is an illusion, some derived that the road is doing whatever is good for the first dynamic regardless of the consequences on the other dynamics. Some satanic and gnostics teaching is that way out of the trap is disagreeing with god laws, engaging in a war with god, and destroying god’s creation.

    This is a BIG difference with LRH’s philosophy. LRH teaching is that the above roads to “way out of the trap”, in reality, are roads DOWN even more in the trap.

    Thanks to LRH, the best way I found for myself to handling my realms, is applying ethics in all my realms and all my dynamics SIMULTANEOUSLY. IMO, this is the way to flourish for Scientology.

  77. Sapere Aude,

    Thank you for posting this. Though I grieved for the wife and the children. They will not likely live an enlightened life.

    The wife believes she must be submissive to the Husband. She said it’s the “perfect order”. She believes in fear-based parenting, by hitting her kids to discipline them. She uses a wooden mixing spoon she calls “smiley” which has a smile face drawn on it. She hits her kids with this on their hands and butt when her kids are “rebellious”.

    When she brought out the spoon to show the BBC film crew, one of her kids went into fear, because he was confused what he might have done wrong and didn’t want to get hit. She laughed, and said, “Don’t worry, I’m not going to use this.”

    She clearly has no clue about how fear-based parenting emotionally damages her kids, even into adult life, and no clue about much, much better parenting methods that don’t damage the mind such as this …

    She also, made it clear that excommunication is a practice in her church. They feared very much in getting caught by other members of their church, getting filmed by the BBC camera crew. That is strictly forbidden by their church. So they are somewhat minor “rebels” in their religion (perhaps major rebels from their point of view).

    She said she is aware of some of the lies she’s been taught about baptism. For them to get re-baptised or not, is a “spiritual war” in her church. At least it’s a starting point of questioning, anyway … though to others it may look like a very unimportant and senseless argument. But to them, it’s very serious!

    This film made it clear that the Amish are Christian fundamentalists, who have been made to believe things that are not true. They take the Bible completely literally. I look at the wife, and I see a duplicate beingness of her in my backwards-thinking sister. Even their nervous laugh, when there is nothing funny, is the same.

    The Amish are living in an ancient time warp, where they are not confronting present-time civilizations’ education, thoughts, and technology. They’re out of PT on nearly every dynamic, IMO.

    So IMO, there is nothing endearing about this culture, whatsoever. It just makes me shake my head in sadness, especially for the Amish kids, who will likely just pass on the contagion of aberrations from their parents, to their progeny … unless they continue to press on their questioning of their church, and more importantly, their fundamentalist religion and beliefs.

    I’m willing to grant beingness to their unenlightened ways of living. It’s their unalienable Right. However, I certainly don’t revere it.

  78. K – I spent about 4 hours once with an old white haired Amish man discussing their views. We must remember, shunning, when done (seldom) is ONLY after the person has been baptized. If the member then violates their agreements the others won’t speak with them. Nobody cuts them off – the person has left the group. If that person decides to re-enter the group they are welcome back.

    There is no loss of love for the person and the person isn’t considered undesirable if and when they return.

    I currently purchase, at times, grass fed beef from the Amish. I also get others food items from the Amish. This is not an authoritarian group. If you wish to leave you may easily do so. Those leaving know they are outside the group until some time in the future they decide to return.

    This is quite different that forced disconnection. Especially in regards to forced disconnection merely because you have been told to. I have a personal friend, who has many of her friends disconnect from her and spread the order/idea to disconnect even though she has done NOTHING to harm either her past friends or the C of S. Simply the fact that she no longer agreed made her a pariah. That is not at all how the Amish view it.

    Within the Amish the family unity is VERY strong. You may leave it and you may return, but during your absence you simply aren’t at that time part of that family unit. If you never get baptized, then you are never shunned. You may believe and not be baptized and you will not be shunned.

  79. Kevin – Nice job! I feel you have the essence of part of the problem. In my opinion the family is the most fundamental and basic group, or third dynamic we form. If that group does not exist our future as a race is doomed. If that is not our strongest group then how can one expect any other third dynamic to be better.

    What I see is DM, and those like him, attempt to usurp that basic drive. If your allegiance can be transferred from your parents and family to another then what does that say about your ability to be controlled. I don’t remember the exact reference, but I believe LRH speaks of how the Chinese government worked to do away with the family unit. He also in that lecture spoke of the family unit as being the basic on the strength of that culture.

    The family being viewed as a distraction – this would only occur when the person(s) making that determination desired to control. The world at large does not view the family unit as something bad. Within the current world of scientology – a strong family unit is only desirable in the Independent field. Many sheeple may say it is desired but how many will stick with the family rather than stick with the RCS. In this case the actions of disconnections, currently happening, speaks the fact of what is truth. I know you already understand.

  80. I recall listening to a lecture from Ron. I am sorry I don’d recall the specific lecture. I recall him talking about his particular
    disdain for people treating him/thinking he was a “god” . He said that “you all blow Scientology some time or other” But, he also said, ” when I see someone walk back up the road (at St Hill) we need to welcome them back with open arms!”. Again I don’t recall the tape but I will look for it.

  81. Hi Tony – yes, I thought of that, but I’m really not that flamboyant. Good to be out in the open air!

  82. Hey, Tony – I was on the BC as public at ASHO F from 1980 to 1985 so we had to have crossed paths. Were you in the SO?

  83. It goes against the short-term attitude of DM and the ‘droids – kids cost money that should be used to “clear the planet.” Kids in the SO are a distraction. What an incredibly insane point of view!

  84. Amish do not allow women to hold positions of power? Which of the Int Execs is a woman pray tell? Women in the Sea Org are told whether or not they can keep their own babies! If you think treating a woman like a man and having everyone call her “Sir” is a power flow, I beg to differ. Hubbard himself makes note of the sad state of affairs when women are regarded as men or compete with men. I was virtually tortured in the Sea Org for wearing jewelry (It was taken off of me!), ORGANIC fragrance oil with no tar, make up, any time I went at the beauty shop, or off post to get my teeth cleaned, my nails done or my hair done. I had to do an all nighter to do my nails and toes !

    Amish women are flowed lots of power compared to a Sea Org Member!
    They are contributed to! They are allowed to keep their babies! They are allowed to create a home! They are protected and provided for. They are loved and honored and permitted to contribute as women.

    If you think Amish women are not allowed any power, just imagine how suppressed a woman in the Sea Org is!

  85. +1,000,000 And THAT is the point!

  86. I love that too, Les!

  87. I just had the chance to read Mimi’s story. Oh my God. This is so cussing crazy. I always feel a bit hesitant condemning the SO as an institution because of so many worthy SO vets who are now independent, but, really, there can be no peace until the Sea Org is dissolved. It was a noble experiment that failed. Lesson learned, move on.

    I am glad for Mimi’s success, and I wish her the best.

  88. BillyJackIsBack

    What causes the power-crazed behavior of some people in a position of leadership or power? When a person is much more powerful or “right” in his mind than he is in fact, he goes off the deep end and suppression and violence ensue. Here is a shocking and sad example of that from Aug. 26, 2012:
    History is full of this “human pecking order” phenomenon: Hitler, Napoleon, and many others, even in recent years.

  89. I have the exact quote here. And somehow you really took it out of context.

    ” A thetan’ll do that, and the guy could be driven to do that. But if he’s in close association with the body, he just finds it impossible to do that. He feels he has no motive. That’s because the body has no motive. That’s because he doesn’t have a family unit. That’s what gives him his goals. He’s.. he’s got a goal then, a MEST goal, a lineage goal, and all that sort of thing. You get this terrific family thirst. And you get your GE surviving best and being loused up the most because of interfamily
    That doesn’t necessarily mean that your thetan is even vaguely aberrated on this line. Your thetan is much more interested in a higher level debit and credit system of what he himself has done to himself, by himself, and for himself. And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a
    group. Families are not good groups; they’re bad groups.
    So, all this stuff applies more to homo sapiens, because of the GE,
    than it applies to a thetan. You’ll see this whole picture change in an
    individual after you have theta cleared him and brought him up toward
    cleared theta clear. ”
    – LRH, PDCs tape 29

    So Ron says that the Thetan has higher goals than the GE, right?
    And that familiy is not always supportive in his goals.

    Is this so different from other philosophies?
    Look up, Marc, chapter 3 (King James Version):
    (31) There came then his (Jesus) brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
    (32) And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
    (33) And he (Jesus) answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
    (34) And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
    (35) For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

    Obviously a free thetan will search for ARC and theta goals more than for physical enjoyment.

  90. Yet, they are expanding. Scientology no longer is. The tiny thetan has developed a culture where the OSA Thought Police have oppressed so many Scientologists, that those Scientologists have lost their former zeal. Thus Scientology is no longer expanding.

  91. LRH says in several places when one dynamic goes out, it pulls the other dynamics down.
    How could a staff member possibly be worth much, when their first and second dynamics are in the tank?
    DM knows and applies this principle very well to destroy Scientology.

  92. martyrathbun09

    Thank you

  93. The real irony of that is the Koran is beautiful book, and Islam a beautiful religion, but like any belief system, application is everything…

  94. Kevin,
    Good point. For some more data, check out Marty’s book (if you haven’t already done so) – it has some very enlightening commentary on this very subject – LRH’s emphasis on the 3D.

  95. Whenever I think I’ve got something REALLY figured out – it comes back to bite me. Seriously, it’s not possible to nail down something HARD because the next minute, something changes.

    IF I’ve learned anything – and I usually forget it a moment later – it’s that NOTHING is permanent (except theta).

    I feel that Marty continuously pulls out the rug of “oh – this-is-how-it-is” by introducing new topics — like the Amish. And then of course, many will firmly fixate on THE AMISH and prove how they aren’t perfect or worse.

    The point continuously is — work at growing, not a “having arrived” and we just might be able to expand out into the world and help others.

    Have a great long weekend … it’s gorgeous here with a touch of fall starting to arrive.


  96. martyrathbun09

    If life is a journey then arrival is death.

  97. only if the journey ends. Does it? If life is theta, can theta be destroyed or only diminished or trapped?

  98. martyrathbun09

    Only by its own consideration.

  99. Sounds like an insidious and tragic self destructive flow. An awful place to be. Something to be said for the power of postiive thoughts and thinking.

  100. I wish my wife and I could have taken Mimi into our home. She would have been welcome with our daughters. So unreal of the Sea Org , there was Theta that was just thrown under the Bus.

  101. As a Scientologist, my wife and children are the most important lifetime activity going on. My group activities follow. There is nothing in Scientology that says you shouldn’t survive on the Second Dynamic; much of Scientology is *how* to survive, in various and sundry situations, should you need it. Spiritually, In-Session, there is much to be discovered on the 2D in all of us, which .. when properly confronted with life force .. brings on new, brave, fantastic conditions for all involved. I was very glad to have had a 2D Sec Check in my time, in fact it was a brilliant activity of much mirth and delight.

    That said, I believe that we must observe, yet again, Clear Cannibal phenomena. If you are a Wife Beater before Scientology, chances are, if your Bridge progress is stalled at certain points along the way, you’ll simply become a better Wife Beater, with some Scientology. This is a clear case phenomenon.

    The reason we “In Society” Scientologists much address this issue is that with regards to family life, and family trauma, Corporate Scientology has much to answer.

  102. Pingback: “Church” of Scientology is a Hate Group « 31 Factors

  103. I’m so sorry about the abuse you received as a woman in the sea org, and all the women in the sea org for that matter. I can’t imagine the pressure from authority of “needing” to abort one’s pregnancy. In my short stint in the sea org, there was a cadet org, and sea org members were free to have kids. It was a given. Nobody I knew thought it could or should be any other way.

    To have a woman kill the life inside them was not Ron’s idea, it was David Miscavige’s. David Miscavige is culpable of many murders, IMO. I wonder how many more humans would be here today if it weren’t for him. Of course, in DM’s psychotic mind, they’re just bodies, right? He’s not murdering thetans, right? With Scientology, he can justify murder, and that’s what really scares me. How far can you take this concept of, “it’s just a body.”? A psychotic can justify murder in Scientology if the body is not respected as a temple for the spirit.

    So I certainly respect the Amish for not condoning murder, for sure! However, I don’t think Scientologists condone murder either. Only sociopaths do. Keep in mind, David Miscavige is NOT a Scientologist! It was only those who shifted into DM’s valence, or lived in terror under him, who ended up acting under undue influence (mind control) doing something they wouldn’t have otherwise done on their own will. It wasn’t THEM who did it.

    My problem with the Amish culture (or any other Christian fundamentalist culture) is the idea of the necessity of the woman to be submissive to the man. It is NOT the given order of things, unless one believes one thetan must be subservient to another. Subservience or submission is just another name for being one’s slave. There is nothing respectable in any culture which practices this degradation of another.

  104. As a woman I can only say I have no problem being submissive to someone more intelligent and able than I am. I am grateful for the guidance. I do have a problem being submissive to a bully who isn’t wrapped too tight, who is dishonest and a scam man. Who only abuses women through other women, by ordering women to abuse other women for him, because he will not take any responsibility unless it is very covert for the abuse on women. He IS a woman abuser, a child neglector and a child abuser. He has not evolved with the rest of society. He still beats employees. That is 18th century backwards. BEATHING WOMEN is 19th century backwards. Miscavige is wholly out of communication with the world. And he is accusing OTHERS of being the blind leading the blind!
    He does not use tr’s to manage simple tasks. He does not use the communication formula to bring about understanding. He has no hat pack no checksheet for his post. His post title is one he invented for himself. It is not on any Scientology Org Board or in any hat pack. And “the most dedicated Scientologists” (slaves) on earth are running around him in hysterics working to please him. This is as acient as Early Egypt! He is STUCK ON THE TRACK and so is his entourage!

  105. “Miscavige is wholly out of communication with the world.”

    +7,036,000,000. Well stated, The Oracle.

    Isn’t it truly bizarre a NON-Scientologist sociopath, David Miscavige, is running the Church of Scientology? Never could I have ever imagined or foreseen this to happen to Scientology. Never could I have ever imagined or foreseen its members get so PTS.

    If one never got the full mass on the reality of SP’s and PTS’ness before, we’ve certainly gotten a very vivid live example of the truth of it now.

  106. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Mark,
    No never in the Se Org. I was an outer Org trainee from San Diego Org doing the Continental TTC training at Asho day and Fdn. It was a big program back in the day. Ron Smith was the Tech Sec for Asho Day I believe and there was also Ted something (forgot his last name) Pretty wild times. You are not the Mark I was thinking of but I am sure we crossed paths. Three degrees of seperation… 🙂
    Anywho…. Congratulations!!!!!! 🙂
    You have snatched the pebble from my hand…it is time for you to leave.

  107. Nonono,

    It looks like your comment wasn’t directed to me. However, just in case, the following is in the unlikely event it was directed to me.

    As I stated, IMO, the best way to handling my realms, is applying ethics in all my realms and all my dynamics simultaneously. And, this includes the 2nd D.

    As a matter of fact, I love children, I enjoy giving them love, I enjoy making them feel loved, I enjoy when they are enjoying themselves (sanely), and I enjoy hearing them laughing (sanely). All of the above without false ARC.

  108. I had talked with my son of a project to get people to adopt a Sea Org member but it would of been out PR. At least now we can communicate when someone need help… Thank You to all those that have helped.

  109. 🙂 Thanks, Tony. You probably mean Ted Scheer. He was Fdn BC sup at the time. He was a good guy, but we butted heads occasionally.

  110. Great points.

    And also great that even such a discussion takes place on this forum.

    It will be interesting to see and hear what 2nd and 3rd generation independent Scientologists, think about their lives and ideas about everything.

    With the Amish and Mennonites and Hutterites being tight communal religious movements, on the other end, there’s some continuity I’ll speculate, in the 2nd and 3rd generation “Theosophical Society” membership ranks.

    Independent Scientologists seem more likely inclined to choose a future more like the “Theosophical Society” which has a much looser membership (and I suspect a multi generational membership).

    Although I didn’t personally mind the Sea Org communal urban lifestyle, it’s definitely not for everyone.

    Maybe a “Theosophical Society” building setup model, much less restrictive, might longer range work. Just consciously ramp down on the totalitarianism, and eliminate “management” entirely.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s