Between Lives Survey

Thanks to everyone who participated in the past lives survey, and for the wonderful detail and discussions.

Here is a follow up survey on the subject of ‘between lives.’

1. If you are one of the approximately 1/4 of responders who noted there are implant stations awaiting us after death, please answer the following:

a)   Who operates these stations?

b)   Are they represented on earth, and if so in what form?

c)   Do you feel an obligation to educate or prepare your fellow beings on earth about them, or to otherwise do something about their operators?

2.  If you are one of the approximately 65 percent of responders who who noted there are no such obstacles as implant stations extant, please answer the following:

a)  How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?

b)  Do you feel an obligation to educate those (or otherwise release them) who believe in afterlife tragedies like implant stations, or hell, so as to free them from delusion and the anxiety that might accompany it?


249 responses to “Between Lives Survey

  1. 1a) I have no knowledge about Who in terms of individual names or identities nor of group names or identities. But for me it looks like that they are in opposition to the goals of Scientology in its original form.
    1b) At least some terminals I met in Scientology acting in the valance of those from 1a) But if they had been implanted that valance or they are recruits of them I do not know.
    1c) not at all. Believe or not has nothing to do with the actuality. Does not make any difference. Thus no need to convince someone. My only chance to come out of this would have been to go through OT3. But that I could not do, thus I have not been able to escape this situation.

  2. 2a. 1) Either past lives recollected in auditing are imaginary, 2) Scientology is not effective as a means to return with testable recall or 3) Feck knows.

    b) Not in the slightest.

  3. 1 a) uncertain 1b) uncertain 1c) absolutely
    2a) and 2b) n/a

  4. Well Done Marty
    Number one, I did not have any data personal or otherwise on implant stations on Earth or otherwise.
    Number two, there are past life Scientologists about but do not carry signs around there neck advertising the fact. Founding Scientologists who worked with Ron, one I was introduced to at ASHO by another Plank Owner who was in his 70’s at the time, the returnee was in his early teens. In England while Ron researched the B.C, he audited boatloads of Public many / most all who went Clear very quickly. There are a large number of these public. I can only speculate that no one desires the limelight created by David Miscavige. Would You ?

  5. A) I couldn’t give you the exact name (Marcabians?) of these guys but they are the control and command group who are here to simply carry on the operation that has been in place here for a very long time. This operation includes implant stations, spaceships and very sophisticated use of electronics. In my opinion, that only 25% of the survey respondents reported belief in implant stations only confirms how skilled these cats are at what they do. They are after all memory wipe-out stations-They don’t want you remembering! Is there any l wonder then why people don’t remember them easily? Oh! …and did I mention they are very skilled with what they can do electronically?

    B)They are represented here on earth at least to the degree that they have successfully gotten vast majority of the population to “forget” and then “report in” and the end of a life.

    Many wonder why these reported spaceships we often see and hear about don’t land and get in communication with us. They don’t need to land. They know all about earth and our culture. They believe we are all shit-bat crazy. They are for the most part in a maintain and control stance here in the same way prison guards are at any prison. LRH gave plenty of information on all this and my own recalls confirms once again he was correct.

    C) Yes I do feel some obligation and here is my suggetion to anyone. At the end of this life stay away from any tunnel of light that has a “feel good” flow of light and sensation pouring through it and an incredible sense of love,relief etc…. This I believe is the begining of the implant process and invites you to show up willingly. This is their electonics at work!

    Don’t be fooled by the presence of your “grandmother”, “lost dog”, “best friend” or any other items that are present. I believe they are simply reading your own memories and showing them back to you. Again…their skill with electronics is unbelieable skilled-they can read you memories and mental pictures.

    Move the side of this ” tunnel” and be gone or if you are curious move way off to one side and follow it up to its source and there I am sure you will find the implant boys.

  6. 1. I noted there was but I didn’t go there last LT (I didn’t ‘report in’).
    As for who operates them, are they represented on earth, do I feel an obligation ….
    LRH was not specific as to these questions in the data I got from him – it was not important probably because he knew that if we only reached a certain awareness (which didn’t take much processing really), we would not have to go there. I didn’t go there. I left after having accomplished my LT goals with the certain intention/purpose of coming back to help in clearing earth and that is exactly what I did and I recall it all very clearly even the feel of the wind (I mocked up) as I zoomed to my destination to spend my 20 years growing up. When I got to history in grade school and ran across the Hollywood sign picture I got very excited and brought the book home right to my dad and proudly showed him the picture and told him “This is where I’m going”. And after some 4 yrs with street drugs (70-74 my `1st husband was a heroin addict) that’s exactly where I made it to. SO 77-96 was MY LIFE. I stayed despite the mess it was becoming because “If all the good people left, who will fix it?”. I was kicked out ’96 by Jenny Linson DeVocht and in 2004 while on 100 hrs of NOTs I was told I needed a leaving staff sec check and then told I was not clear – that was 85 hours. Until reading Amy’s book end June 2010 (truth but no solution in sight – very upsetting) and then Marty’s blog and books 2012 (there is now hope – I’m coming back), I was going very downhill. My wins were all suppressed, my purpose for this LT impossible to achieve. If I had died in that state, yes, I would not have had the certainty to NOT end-up in an implant station. And yes they are there and I don’t know who operates them but a certain somebody, we all know who, is looking like a recruiter for them. Maybe that is his real ‘up and vertical’ statistic he is so proud of.
    Hate to lean on others but Marty, you have taken on big boots and I’m counting on you to continue on the processes that will get the fallen soldiers off the ground and back to the awareness Ron postulated. I’m quite sure most of us know ‘we come back’ and ‘the way out is the way through’ and have hung on knowing it will all turn out OK.
    And may each of us learn from this experience and never go there again. And may each of us do whatever we have to in order to fix ourselves and get back on our purpose line and produce products that will help this civilization like Ron is counting on us to do (and we DID promise).
    2. I don’t have to prove my prior existence to anyone. 10 hours in a CCRD recalling it is enough for me, my auditor and C/S.
    Perhaps that is why “…we don’t see many 2nd LT Scientologists making them self’s known, with irrefutable evidence’.
    Yes, if I was left in the same state I was in after the 85 hours in 2003, I may not have come back. DM’s damage is un-fathomable. It’s repercussions far far reaching into many many more life’s then his new tech is messing up. It snowballs and goes into all our universes. But on the opposite side I have hopes it can be fixed just as fast as it was ruined.
    Our loved ones will come around and they will have also learned – a good thing (the importance of KSW and code of honor). Our lost loved ones will be back soon and we will know them proven or not. Why do I know that with such certainty? Because Ron would never betray us. Not all us that gave up our sons, daughters, spouses and worked our a**s off day in and day out to get the job done he postulated.

  7. there are days when i feel like I’m between lives right here on mother earth. but I think that is about par for the course.


  8. Marty, VWD on this scientific approach to scientology.

  9. 1. If you are one of the approximately 1/4 of responders who noted there are implant stations awaiting us after death, please answer the following:

    a) Who operates these stations? For the most part they are automaticities that exist as either actual physical universe facilities or as deeply implanted constructs of the mind. Either way, if one incautiously tries to go anywhere as a being after dropping his body, he instantly finds himself finds himself “reporting in” to an implant station for the ‘ol “wash and rinse” cycle before he is shot back down to Earth with the overriding imperative to get a new body. In the past some unsavory characters could take advantage of these stations and use them to their own ends. I have no idea if this still occurs or not.

    b) Are they represented on earth, and if so in what form? Yes, On earth, I would say that they are a kind of “Routing Station that rout you to one on the Moon. Weather the physical universe installation still exists or not, I do not know. We can talk about it more and figure it out if we see each other at one of the concentration camps the U.S. government has so kindly prepared for us,

    c) Do you feel an obligation to educate or prepare your fellow beings on earth about them, or to otherwise do something about their operators?

    Absolutely. However, One would have to be pretty bad ass to take these cats on. Even though they have also lost much, they use technology and other methodologies to stoke their spiritual fires in order to create godlike aspects, attributes and abilities for themselves. Don’t know if they stillexist in that form though.

    2. If you are one of the approximately 65 percent of responders who noted there are no such obstacles as implant stations extant, please answer the following:

    a) How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?

    They’re cowards! Probably just hanging out and watching from a safe distance! Actually, I have no idea why we don’t see more of that. I just know that my personal scope of knowledge regarding the subject of Scientology seems to extend beyond what I’ve actually studied this lifetime. I haven’t nailed down how this is so, though.

    b) Do you feel an obligation to educate those (or otherwise release them) who believe in afterlife tragedies like implant stations, or hell, so as to free them from delusion and the anxiety that might accompany it?

    Most definitely, one of the most long fall blow down, floating T/A blowout wins I ever had in session was when I realized that there was another way to handle this problem. When faced with suppression, one has two choices, Handle or Disconnect. I could just disconnect! I didn’t have to try to handle that shit or those beings anymore! OMG what a blowout win. After realizing this, I’ve been floating on cloud nine (without being implanted or reinforcing a previous implant) ever since!

  10. Crashing Upwards

    I am one of the 65%.

    Regards a), I would be surprised if anyone can irrefutably make themselves known as one “forgets” through the process of between lives areas, along with a process of judgment, before they return to a new incarnation, selected in accordance with their needs as they continue on a path towards improvement, perfection, etc. Whatever one may bring with them from a past life would not be analyticaly available but impressed upon them at a different level. I suppose they could be expections.

    Regards b) The obligation exists, but on an as needed or wanted basis if someone is searching and reaching. I believe than when a person is ready, the information they need will present itself through their search. I may or may not be part of that equation. If i was aware of anyone who had anxiety about an implant station, I would reach out. But thats just another example of the same scenario.

  11. Crashing Upwards

    I suppose the passive process of forgetting could be colorfully called an active process or an implant station. But i do not see it as evil or a location.

  12. 2. a. I have run into a number of returning Scientologists, quite a number, in fact. Many children and grown ups possessing knowledge of Clear, time track incidents and past identities indicating they have come back. Not sure why it is thought that they must irrefutably prove anything. To whom should they prove anything? More people believe in reincarnation on this planet than not and, in my experience as a C/S, unless a person has something unresolved in a past life, they tend to want move on and just get on with living this one. Not to mention all the evidence of people going “exterior” (the action of the spirit moving out of the body). It stands to reason that if one can move in and out of the body then the body is merely a vehicle and …

    2.b. I don’t see a great deal of difference ,whether the between-life implants happen all over again or past ones are merely restimulated by the action of a person’s body dying I am sure they are no less real, so handling anyone on this seems pointless.

    The sole purpose of a Scientology auditor or C/S is to help people and what works, works, so they have no interest in proving anything. They couldn’t care less about that. That doesn’t mean scientific research shouldn’t be done but not by active auditors and C/Ses, in my opinion. And if you were going to research such matters why limit it to Scientologists? As mentioned above, the concept of reincarnation is common on this planet.

  13. >a) Who operates these stations?

    Nobody, they are running on auto.

    >b) Are they represented on earth, and if so in what form?

    Mysterious boxes tucked away in the side of a mountain/remote place, with strange fields and flows all over the place.

    >c) Do you feel an obligation to educate or prepare your fellow beings on earth about them, or to otherwise do something about their operators?

    The operators are long gone, the only thing left to do is convince Thetans to quit reporting for duty.

    Question #2:
    >a) How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?

    Because they have been ordered not to do so.

    >b) Do you feel an obligation to educate those (or otherwise release them) who believe in afterlife tragedies like implant stations, or hell, so as to free them from delusion and the anxiety that might accompany it?

    I have an obligation to allow as much Theta to free itself from the MEST trap as possible, and then step back to let it decide what needs to be done.

  14. I am not one of the 1/4 of the responders who noted about the implant stations because I don’t feel that the subject is worthy and I still don’t want to say anything about on 1a and 1b but I would like to answer 1c. I am a past life Scientologists and a past life Clear. I knew LRH in my last life time in London. I was very concerned with the implant stations in those days and felt strongly that we needed to DESTROY the stations. I approached LRH with that idea. His answer was that if I wanted to wage war, I could just go and do that but that wouldn’t be Scientology. In Scientology we don’t wage wars, we audit people. So that is my response to 1c.

    2a I personally never felt that I owed anybody any irrefutable evidence about being a past life Scientologist. Why would I? But speaking about irrefutable evidence, I had the state of Clear achieved at a certain instant in the last life time which was rehabilitated in this life time with tremendous results by contacting that exact moment in the last life time. Additionally, as a Book One auditor, I ran a PC once on being instantaneously vaporized in Hiroshima in her last life time which resulted in immediate clearing and improvement of her eyesight and rash on her face and the front of her body, not to mention the emotional release and mental improvements that followed. These are just a couple of irrefutable proofs but there were tons more that I observed in my case by running whole track incidents in auditing and with other people. Of the latter, one more notable example was an 11-year old boy who in 1993 walked in a small mission in Kazakhstan which was just set up and stated that he was an OT III from UK (how did he even know what that meant?) and asked to be their Book One auditor although he never read the book this life time and it wasn’t even available yet, not to mention that at 11 y.o. he’d have very little chance to understand it. He was a very good Book One auditor.

    2b not at all. In my opinion, such education would just serve as a distraction. I would educate them in Scientology but I don’t feel obligated to do that.

  15. 2a) I believe there are probably Scientologists that have come back to be Scientologists. I have no proof.

    But an opinion could be, why they don’t come back to be Scientologists:

    When Scientologists die they discover that some of the things Ron told them about the after life was bogus and they move on to the astral world and hang with their buds. When they come back they are not attracted to Scientology because they know Ron taught some false data about life.

    Ron booby trapped, with false data: the after life, God, the light of the soul, angels etc and when souls leave the earth they feel wonderful and don’t find evil beings everywhere trying to make them slaves through some hellish electro-funk. So the reason they don’t come back-the Old Man was wrong on some things and they know it.

    2b) firstly for me it is about honoring the truth. The grades, looking up words, laws of communication, processes that deal with known or actual truths about life are the great things about Scientology.

    But Ron went off the rails at some point. You will have to make up your mind for yourself when that was.

    Also, when I discovered through study, decades long meditation, counseling with true wisemen, I concluded that at a point on the bridge Ron started projecting his own mind/bank into the “needs to be audited.”

    I also gave many hrs of thought to why I and other people are getting cognitions and actual wins on these action that are Ron’s personal case. And I did come up with answers but that is not the question you are asking Marty.

    And yes, I do feel an obligation to tell the truth about these things because they are an impediment to spiriitual growth and I care about spiritual growth because I am a supporter of Ron when it comes to helping the planet.

    L Ron Hubbard completely fogged up concepts of the afterlife for adherents of Scientology. I don’t think he did it on purpose, I believe he believed the things he asked us all to believe.

    I now know those things to be not true. And I am a much happier person as a result.

    The scores and scores of recorded and verified near death experiences do not support Ron’s Cosmology at all-ever.

    Ron inadvertently taught me one essential fact: when the leader of a religion states that he is special, the only one to learn something that no one else ever learned, no one else every discovered or his peers ever verified(other enlightened teachers) intellectual danger lurks around the corner for the unsuspecting neophyte of spiritual knowledge. And that school of thought is destined for Culthood.

  16. Why educate people , everyone knows the way it is , this is the worst place in the universe .

  17. 2a. I have thought about why we don’t see as many “returnees” as might be expected.

    One reason could be that the technology was not completed or codified to the point of accomplishing a fairly consistent result of eliminating whole track amnesia, and thus returnees, for the most part, aren’t remembering their earlier lives.

    Another reason could be that once one has died and leaves, you’re often done with this part of the adventure of your existence and have moved onto other things. This idea is popular amongst many other religions and belief systems, such as Heaven.

    Another reason could be one of time scales. It is accepted by most physicists that the closer one travels to the speed of light, the more time “slows”, and a year at light speed could become centuries back on a planet. Perhaps time in the between-lives area can exhibit this phenomenon and if a Being waits even a little bit to sort of catch his breath before returning, that might translate into a 50 or 100 year delay for returnees.

    Another reason, and one I tend to gravitate toward, is that the Earth and places like it are chaotic for a reason. What if the earth is a massive simulation and one that is completely immersive and Beings come here to learn, to feel vulnerable, to experience self-determinism, to experience existence in body constructs that have amped-up sensory imputs, for innumerable reasons. If this is the case, you come to earth for a vacation, to experience suffering, to work something out, to alleviate a sense of purposelessness. If it is the case that the earth has such a purpose, then there wouldn’t be a great deal of incentive to come back and spoil it for the rest of us. By “simulation”, I am not saying “it’s all a dream and nothing is real, blah, blah.” You bleed, you hurt, you love, you PLAY here. But it is a simulation, because of synthetic rules and parameters, i.e., you WILL eventually die here, and you have the dynamic principle of existence (survive!) driving your actions for the most part, but that is a created and synthetic life mode to one who is a timeless, immortal being.

    If a spiritual leader or somebody (returnee) gets too close to the truth, or too vocal about it, they are often violently opposed by “the masses”. Why? Well, same thing happens in a movie theater when somebody’s cell phone goes off. You don’t want to be that guy whose cell phone goes off in the theater.

    2b.Obligation to educate about there being no implant stations extant? No. I think people benefit from knowing about them, but not being fearful of them. My sense of it is that implant stations in this area HAVE BEEN real, just not right now or for some time. They tend to crop up during times of (galactic) war, but go dormant or lose power or are removed when hostilities cease by the more responsible former belligerents. An analogy on earth is land mines.

  18. One thought to ponder: the materials of r6 are all over the internet and the subject of a South Park episode.

    Present to me evidence of one person who died of pneumonia as a result.

  19. And if my question makes you uncomfortable, your faith is being challenged by reasoned questioning. Not an anti Ron rant.

  20. I wish I would have known about the survey. Could have given you an earful

  21. 1. David Miscavige, the CIA, KGB, SS, Psychiatrists etc etc are keeping up the implanting of people people on this planet on a daily basis. So are mothers and fathers and priests and dogmatic professors of all races, colors and creeds. I, myself have been guilty many times over this lifetime by forcefully ramming my unfounded opinions on others, misrepresenting opinions as facts and generally not-ising rather than as-ising various time, place form and events.

    2. a) In my opinion, so many eons of agreement to not-is and alter-is so as to keep the game alive. “Humans” are utterly dedicated to the game and the universe. Anyone playing here is “required” to agree to certain things in order to keep the game going. My own participation in implanting in the past to get my own way on things is what I need to face up to fully in order to have the cognizance to come and go as I please. It might be easier to quit smoking than it is to quit forgetting, but they are both hard habits to break once addicted.

    It’s just like miscavige loves to encourage others to beat others and encourage them to beat others, all for the “greatest good.” Now you are “one of us.”

    I have a lot more to say on the subject. But it’s all just my opinion, so I’ll leave it at that.

    2 b) Yep, feel very obligated but with a high toned, spirit of play attitude. Do you want to proof yourself up against any possibility of being implanted in the future? We’re at your service:)

  22. iRoger From Switzerland Thought

    a) don’t know
    b) don’t know
    c) never thought about that !

    What I know is that with R3R I I ran out an incident of a heavy accident this life time where I was anaten for about 8 hours and the content of the incident was so unbelievable but I’d heavy BDs on it (double body experience as described in history of man).
    I exteriorized, went to an implant station (as far I recall it was Mars) destroyed there a machine where a body was preserved and some of the adjacent machines went also up in smoke. Then i felt a big relief as I had the sensaitons of some dozens thetans being liberated (wasn’t OT3 then) and just felt good after telling the incident and was quite keyed out. But some hours later I just was confused about it and asked myself what the hell was that ?

    As already being clear when I run this incident (past life) it never was correctly run out and is a puzzling experience. One day I’ll look at it with nots tech.

    I left my body last life-time with quite some wins under my belt but arrived in my new body with quite some confusions and when I found Scientology at the age of 15 I knew that was it but didn’t know why until I found out some years later in session !

  23. 2a: First, there is really no means of broadcasting it…no message board where one can go see what past life Scientologist has checked in that day; however, I have had this originated to me in one-on-one conversations quite frequently. I’ve never known a past life Scientologist to walk into a room and announce him or herself as such. In the scheme of things I’m not sure it is all that important either other than in indentifying where one is on the Bridge so the person can continue if they so choose, or in simply having the reality one is immortal. In other words, it matters more for that individual than anyone else. Second, would a Scientologist in coming back see the state of the COS and want to even associate, especially if in the previous life they had been aware of the current debacle? I don’t think so.

    2b: No. When the body dies it no longer matters what one believes…what’s happening is happening. I think effort is much better spent assisting one to become more able through valid processing or two-way communication than in trying to change their mind or alleviate fear about what might happen when their body dies. Life is in them today so help them live better now…get them into present time. It is quite possible their viewpoint will change over time. Additionally, I could be wrong as well…so who’s to say? I’m not saying that implant stations never existed; it is just more real to me that what we experience as amnesia of the past when taking on a new body now could be a result of the restimulation of such in having died and/or result from the fact that past-lives are generally invalidated here on earth.

  24. I think the idea of implant stations is cool in terms of science fiction, in terms of metaphor, in terms of imagination. To take it seriously is, IMO, is a cross between paranoia and an incapacity to deal with life on life’s terms which is precisely why corporate scientologists love this idea. It suits their unconscious perfectly. But I should also say that I most definitely think its possible to totally disregard this idea and still take certain aspects of Scientology and apply them in life with great success. I don’t say that to offend anyone, but we live in 2012, we have microscopes to detect particles within sub atomic particles. If reality is agreement then implant stations should be pretty much put in the “no way possible reality” category at this point.

  25. Until I get proven wrong I think there are no implant stations at particular locations. I think most of what happens in the between lives area is pre-programmed. I think most of what we experience here is on automatic and that we are the remnants of a civilization that has long since perished. It’s as if we are in prison and the warden died but the day to day activities at the prison continue on in auto pilot while we run around asking ourselves questions like “Who are we?”, “What’s this all about?”, “Where did we come from?”
    Years ago I thought I had killed myself in a motorcycle accident and I was totally out of my body and thought I had no more use for it. I wasn’t even aware of it like you usually are when exterior. It was at that time I realized that the between lives nonsense was not turning on. I wasn’t seeing any white light, being welcomed by angels or feeling like I was traveling home. I was an absolutely free and immortal spirit. I was so happy and my only concerns were for somehow living up to my obligations in this life such as how I was going to continue taking care of my family without a body. I was also so thankful to LRH for helping me get to this point. Later I realized that that body was only unconscious so when that happened I got back in it but with a completely new view of where I was in life.

  26. 1. a) N/A
    b) Ideal Orgs?
    c) I’d first have to educate and prepare myself

    2. a) I’ve recalled auditing from a past life and spoken with several OT’s who recall past lives in Scn or with LRH but there is zero irrefutable evidence.
    b) I’d first have to educate and release myself, just to get reality on this.

  27. I didn’t answer about there being implant stations out there. Mainly because I don’t have certainty that there are any. There might be, I don’t know.

    2. Even thought I don’t assert that there aren’t any, I will answer the questions here.
    a. It could be that thetans don’t always return to Earth. From my own case experience I did come back. Currently even if others did come back it is virtually impossible to get auditing in corporate $cientology, so they would be harder to find.
    Also I believe that a person had to have had enough auditing to have the certainty he was a past lifer. How many actually had enough auditing to have certainty of this?
    If there are about 50,000 current Scientologists, how many have had enough auditing that they would know they were past lifers if they did come back?
    I think it’s possible that most people still haven’t reached a high enough case state to return with total recall and cetainty even if they have gone through OT8. Especially considering the reverse Scientology that has been in use.

    A deeper question would be what happens to the things that blow off with higher level processes. What happened there?

    b. My philosophy on this is live and let live. As long as someone isn’t trying to game me and rip me off and fuck me over. When I see that happening then I get involved. It’s an interesting question because it’s not only Corporate scientology ripping people off and destroying lives, I think it happens in other “churches” too. So no, I am not going to run around and try to convince people that implant stations or hell or whatever, don’t exist. Maybe they do. I am concerned with the here and now behavior of people.

    Interesting questions Marty. Thanks.

  28. They woiuld have to cognite on what they were reading for that to happen !

  29. Jethro Bodine

    I only know of one implant station on Planet Earth. It’s called the “Int Base”. If anyone has physical evidence of another such station, please submit GPS coordinates. A lot of psych hospitals dramatize implanting with the use of some of their treatments like ECT. I also heard (can’t remember from who) that LRH exteriorized and went around thee galaxy blowing up the existing implant stations using a tractor beam, though the person offered no proof of it.

    Also, I’m curious if anyone has any “body in pawn” memories which is a form of being implanted (doesn’t this sound very similar to “The Matrix” story line, especially the part about keeping the body alive indefinitely in a vat of fluid?):

    “… a fellow is grabbed, hypnotized, shoved into an electronic field, and then told he is somewhere else. And so he departs—most of him—and goes to the new location while still being under control of the implanters. He picks up a MEST [physical] body in the new location and starts living a life there, while still having a living body somewhere else. The implanters can keep his original body alive indefinitely, and control the thetan through it. If the thetan tries to flee, the hypnotizers simply cause pain to the original body, still alive in a vat of fluid, and he is immediately recalled. That’s a BODY IN PAWN. It’s a second body you may have, living somewhere else, right in present time. But the second body is not under YOUR direct control.”
    (Source magazine #105, pg.39, 1997; see also Hubbard, Research and Discovery Series vol. 10)

  30. 1)
    a) I can’t answer for all possible stations, as I only know a few. They are owned by the local planetary confederation. Whoever they are; these people look very much like us and go by the name “United Worlds & Planets…” or something like that.

    b) I don’t know. The ones that I remember seem to be at different places throughout the solar system but not on earth, at least not now.

    c) Yes, but not in a Messianic, compulsive or cultist way. Just simply by allowing Scientology to be available to all, and letting people come to terms with this phenomena on their own.

    For those that want to get some independent research and evaluation into this spiritual phenomenon, I recommend the following links:
    There are more than 50,000 case histories and counting. If you can stomach it, you can do your own evaluation and come up with your own conclusions on the general scene.
    Dr. Strassman did some pretty unique, although brief research into this realm, he laid it out in his book “DMT: The Spirit Molecule”.
    Dr. Newton has spent over 40 years researching this, and has documented it on thousands of cases using hypnosis.

  31. I think I remember that. Was that the Virago or when you had just picked up the Harley? I don’t remember the specifics, but I do remember you saying it was a pretty eye-opening experience. Thanks for sharing this.

    I think the warden analogy is spot on…like an elephant who is so used to being tied up with flimsy string when it is a baby and doesn’t realize that when grown he could snap it and break free with practically no effort at all. Like anything else, we’re held in place by our own considerations. Even if there are implant stations…are we under contract to report?


  32. I still want an R-factor, where the hell is this heading?


  33. 1. If you are one of the approximately 1/4 of responders who noted there are implant stations awaiting us after death, please answer the following:

    a) Who operates these stations? I actually think we ourselves (our minds) may be “programmed” or implanted to mock up these stations, if they exist. I have some reality that there is _something_ in the in between zone, what Tibetan Buddhists call bardo, but I am not sure if they are real entities that exist independent of “self” or if they are “real” entities that are in essence “mechanical” that I would be producing or mocking up. If there are stations, they may be fully automated in some sense of that word.

    b) Are they represented on earth, and if so in what form? Doubtful they are on Earth — but, we certainly have many inexplicable sightings of various phenomena. Even more unlikely that these exist on Mars if they are “staffed” by living beings. Mars conditions are too hostile to life as we know it. Plus, who would want a tour of duty on Mars with nothing to do, nowhere to go, few fellow beings or friends around, constantly dramatizing the same things — wait, would that be DM?

    c) Do you feel an obligation to educate or prepare your fellow beings on earth about them, or to otherwise do something about their operators? Yes, but I am not completely certain of the reality of what I have seen or what it means. I am completely certain of course that all humans will eventually die / their bodies will die. From that alone it behooves all of us to study whatever comes next with unflagging dedication. For me that means a need to move away from true belief in absolute authority (no matter the religion), to move away from scientism, and move toward science that will explore non-MEST realities.

  34. Past Life Survey
    1a. Past Life Clear by LRH; able to view track while sleeping and know the difference between dreams and track. Have met 2 others this life with exact same incident viewed (did not run it in session this life); one ran it in session this life; the other actually told me exactly what happened. Have two others this life that have been past 2D’s; both verified by emeter this life after many years of already knowing them this life.
    1b. The incident was space opera so “no” not verified in the P.U.
    2 n/a
    3 n/a
    As for the second survey; maybe it’s simply no one asks. It’s evident in my folders that I’ve returned and no one has bothered to ask me who I was or looked for any folders.

    Even prior to discovering this in session I’ve had others talk to me with their perception of me knowing LRH which I thought was odd at the time until I discovered it myself and I was of a mind to believe I’d be the last person to have this.

  35. 1. n/a
    2a. Hmm…obnosis would indicate they do not exist. Speculation says: If they exist, they are not in a state or condition to communicate about it or simply do not want to.
    2b. No. Far be it for me to tell another what they should or shouldn’t believe.

  36. You are very wise. It was the Virago. You are right it was a life changing event in my life.

  37. It’s top secret and you will never know!! Mwuuu ha ha ha ha!

  38. I couldn’t agree more. It’s amazing how many New Age books welcome the between lives event. That’s crazy.

  39. Wow… life sucks that badly?

  40. Michael, loved your response… Thanks.

  41. 1a. I have no idea.
    1b. I have no idea.
    1c. Yes. I have no idea where I got this data from which is, “stay away from the white light” Has anyone got a reference on this? If so I would love to get it.

  42. a) How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?

    I am a past life sceintologist and to me it was a game to tell no one , so i was in scientology in the 1980s and told no one that i was there before but it was just part of a game i was playing to do that , when i got to saint hill in 1988 in england some people there recognized me and then others recognized me , that sort of ruined my game .
    To play a game is more fun than proving things to people.

  43. Wow Cece… you sure don’t hold back… v. much enjoyed your words and wanted to say more than just a “thumbs up” which I did.. Anyway, thanks for making my day. All thumbs up!!

  44. 2a. Why so few verified past-life Scientologists? A couple of likely reasons. The past-life clear I mentioned in the previous survey not only got zero encouragement from the Church to verify it, she was put through the “now you’re Clear, now you’re not” wringer until she bailed out in disgust. Not even an independent; just Out. Any other past-lifer cross-flowing that might easily decide to keep their mouth shut.

    Second, every past-life Scientologist I’ve come across happened to have some personal track with Ron. Without the LRH touch, those staff working their ass off out in the boonies for little or no pay probably made a postulate at some time along the lines of “I’m never doing this shit again!” And for anyone who was within DM’s sphere of influence, that’s almost a sure thing. So in spite of the slogan, maybe they don’t all come back.

    Third, it’s just not a very safe topic in our culture. If you do have a verified experience as a past-life Scientologist, try posting it on Tony Ortega’s blog or over at WWP and see what kind of reception you get.

    2b. Although I have no personal recall of implant stations, I can’t disprove them either, and I wouldn’t presume to “educate” someone who believed in them. Same thing for hell. Even though I’m sure it’s a superstition, I still find the idea comforting that perhaps all the sociopaths I’ve known are headed for the inferno.

  45. A very interesting survey. I was somewhat shocked on running OT8 to find that almost all my recollections of past lives were false. It does appear to me at this time that only the first part of OT8 was released by DM which left people with a question. My own investigations into the second part lead me into realms that I could only call incredibles, as LRH did. I perceive that we have a lot of work to do yet and am quite optimistic that in the next few thousand years we will progress toward that.

  46. I have run many incidents involving these stations and concluded that they do not currently exist and that their apparency is purely due to the phenomena of revivification.

  47. OK, I’m a 10% who didn’t fall into either category, but I would like to respond with some thoughts, if I may.

    2a) How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?
    I did have recall/dub-in of having dabbled in Scientology previous lifetime, but never got that serious about it as I did for several years this life. I have no irrefutable evidence; thus, I am non-commital either way whether it is recall or dub-in. However; given the great deal of research into the mental phenomenon of false memories, I am more inclined to believe my “recall” is likely dub-in.

    I have heard of many stories of past life Scientologists, but know of no way these anecdotes have been collected, quantified, and/or verified. How would it be done? And why does it matter?

    I can speculate (as can anyone) that perhaps some folks decided not to return to live again, some forgot, some did not wish to return to Scientology, or that the notion of returning to live again is bullshit.

    2b) Do you feel an obligation to educate those (or otherwise release them) who believe in afterlife tragedies like implant stations, or hell, so as to free them from delusion and the anxiety that might accompany it?

    Some people derive great comfort from believing their loved ones are in a better place and that they will eventually be reunited with them. That is none of my business, and ultimately, it does not matter. What is, is. What will be, will be.

    Considering the many different responses to the question of what happens after death, it seems that it would take quite a bit of hubris to impose those beliefs on others, thus perhaps supplanting one delusion for another. Therein lies my objection to Scientology as a subject: the supposition that Ron’s version of hell is truth, that there exists such a dwindling spiral and it is unavoidable unless one follows Ron’s path up the Bridge. This is also my objection to any other religion that threatens eternal damnation for not believing their brand of god and salvation.

    So, if it’s true for you, knock yourself out and enjoy your own truth, but please remember that your truth is still a belief.

    Since I am not part of the 65% to whom these questions were addressed, please feel free to take my responses with a grain of salt.


  48. I answered “b” in the previous survey.

    But now, come to think of it, I don’t really have certainty. In retrospect, it was kind of wishful thinking.

    Truth is, you contact stuff in session, and it is real because of the charge you’re blowing off, but you don’t really question it. The charge OFF is what matters.

    Now, why wouldn’t a guy (or a girl) who was a a scientologist in his (her) previous life come forward with all the evidence that he lived (she) lived before? Good question.

    I’ve been in Scn for almost 40 years and I haven’t witnessed a single case of “born-again” scientologist. Maybe there ARE a few “born-again” scientologists, maybe there aren’t. Or maybe they’re shy. Or modest. Or scared.

    LRH never completed his research. He spent the last seven years of his life a very sick man, a recluse hiding from the Law and fighting debilitating ill health. Instead of carrying on with his research, he suddenly became a film maker and he wrote fiction again. Which, of course, to the average believer, meant that he had achieved higher planes of existence and superior wisdom and was just taking a break and enjoying life. Yeah, right.

    You take a look at the Tibetan Book Of The Dead, and these cats had some semblance of technology with very precise codes and beliefs about in-between lives, including deities and wight lights, and not so wihite lights, and different types of reincarnations based on “case level”. Not very scientific, you may argue. But how how scientific IS processing?

    Apart from what the meter tells you when you blow off charge (and when the auditor is 100% standard), where’s the hard scientific evidence? Isn’t everything the pc or pre-OT tells you purely subjective?

    LRH somehow put his finger on something, by insight or by accident – it doesn’t matter.

    There is no denying that processing, for some reason, works if applied correctly. It generates tremendous case gain. It can even work miracles.

    Are these wins and miracles based on “blind faith”? Faith in LRH and his technology? Or is there more to it?

    Personally, I love the idea of coming back next lifetime and being totally aware of my past lives and my whole auditing track. Which is why I’m still around and still have “faith”.

    I don’t think the between-lives issue has been TECHNICALLY solved. But I sure as hell will spend the rest of my life trying to crack the motherfucker.

  49. 2a -In my family children where tought to “shut up” and listen to their elders. Might help to forget a few things that would not be considered as “normal” by your wog family
    -“The Radical church” does not want to promote scientologists who come back. After being audited correctly in my Class IV org (past life Clear on a repair list after less than two intensives of auditing), I went to Flag and it was ….. difficult, invalidative, whatever… to “pass” the CCRD,even in 1987 at Flag.
    In the 90 ( ? ) Ron Norton held a meeting at Flag were he said they had to have special HGC or procedures prepared for “when” past life Scn would come back, and I just wanted to yell “but we are already here.. do somethig NOW”
    Actually I was even told “not clear” mid OT III in 1992 because I went too fast…
    So instead of being welcomed, handled with ARC, you are made to fight against people who say you are lying or delusional….Is it any wonder that the recall is not as good as it could be?
    Last year with an excellent Indy Auditor the past life Clear date came back in a fraction of a second….
    Then you are not supposed to talk about your case, and sometimes you just cog when you talk to someone else:basic TWC.All this “secrecy” is not conducive to recall.

    2b Do I feel an obligation…? yes and no :Yes when people ask me I say I believe we are not just a body and there is a life after and God (Theta) is good but it is not a topic you can have with anyone you come across on the street…

  50. Brian I am sorry, but I believe you are whistling passed your own grave on this one.
    Ron gave us plenty of data on this and we can wish and hope all we want that it is not true but I for one am not going to cherry pick just the sweetness and light out of LRH’s tech and leave the unsavior and uncomfortable ignored.

  51. 1. If you are one of the approximately 1/4 of responders who noted there are implant stations awaiting us after death, please answer the following:

    a) Who operates these stations? What I recall of them is that they are not physical stations as we think of physical locations. At the point of disconnection from the body and its filters, whatever predominating mental masses the being holds onto, including belief systems are created on an unknowing and surprisingly compulsive basis. Death seems to often result in a tremendous loss, spinnyness and disorientation like dreamscapes.

    b) Are they represented on earth, and if so in what form? Location is a parameter of bodily existence, a time-space continuum and construct. They are where they are which is exactly where one is when one is.

    c) Do you feel an obligation to educate or prepare your fellow beings on earth about them, or to otherwise do something about their operators? I am not aware of operators to address other than the individual confusion resulting from the disconnecting process from the standard and reactive banks and subsequent involuntary or deliberate and continuous creation of reality.

    2. If you are one of the approximately 65 percent of responders who who noted there are no such obstacles as implant stations extant, please answer the following:

    a) How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?

    In the C of S, it is forbidden to talk about one`s case or prior lifetimes.

    As far as irrefutable evidence goes, the only purpose for taking up that past life in particular was to address the auditing errors that were charged up. I suppose one could prove that there was such a person as recalled, but the question is, was it really me? i.e. what`s to prevent me from running whatever is available and how exactly does one prove it belongs to me, when no one can actually identify me except by association with pictures or physical manifestations? I am NOT my identities. I associate with identities. Take the identities away and I am impossible to locate and identify.

    In my case, there were no folders to be had, I was working with a field auditor.

    b) Do you feel an obligation to educate those (or otherwise release them) who believe in afterlife tragedies like implant stations, or hell, so as to free them from delusion and the anxiety that might accompany it?

    No – no obligation. I do encourage people to become as aware and unfettered as they can — that works far better than attempting to disabuse someone of something that is so firmly entrenched (or implanted) that it is seen as reality or of beliefs that they hold to be so important that they will fight any such effort.

  52. 1: I’m going to say N/A even though in the first survey I said it’s possible.
    For whatever reason I find between lives to be a blank period that I seem to awaken from to start a new life.
    I think it is not readily accepted by society, even people you knew- children for example might not be prepared for a teenager showing up claiming to be their dead father.
    I think some who have certainty on it and could or do have proof tend to stay in closed circles- maybe a few friends know and the CS, but no press conference.
    I think when it’s all said and done it’s really not that big of a deal and people tend to just move on with their current life. Someone in good enough case state to recall their last lifetime probably operates in the now and the future, not the past. And their last life, while interesting to explore and be aware of is not more important than the current life.
    I believe I recall a lot of my last life and there were parts of it that really werent all that spectacular.
    No. I think it’s a personal thing you have to find out for yourself. For me Scientology is not a belief. There is some trust there as I havent personally experienced every aspect of it, but I have experienced enough to minimally try it- read and uinderstand and then correctly apply it and expect it to work.

  53. 1a) don´t know if it is all done by machines. Saw nobody operating them.
    1b) reminded me a little bit of Jews in Germany: Sent for a “shower”, but instead of water there was gas / steam, until they died resp. I forgot about everything. So Hitler was dramatizing implant stations.
    Another Implant experience was connected with receiving pictures, pictures, pictures. TV, especially zapping from one channel to the next every few seconds, reminds me very much of the implant experience No. 2.
    1c) and I actually feel a tendency to tell friends to stay away from TV – no matter what the message of the film would be like, just because of the pictures and it´s restimulating effect.

    One person (above) wrote, answering for 1b): ideal Orgs.
    Interesting for me:
    1) In ideal orgs “Personal contact” is more and more replaced by films (the body router routes the raw public unto a film).
    2) The new releases (WTH-book as film or FOT as DVD) are super professional products on one hand, on the other hand they are “verbal tech”, since the pictures themselves are interpretation – they guide the mind of the person who watches the DVD. This is not the case when the person reads the book and CREATES his/her OWN pictures (which he/she has control over then).
    Example: In the Dianetics-DVD they talk about a Clear – and you are getting the picture of a smiling guy with a tie and a briefcase. Maybe “successfull” or “Clear” means something totally different in your universe, but here you get the idea / interpretation of somebody else, what successfull is and what a Clear should look like.

  54. I think that’s a really good point. If you came back and knew it, would you want to advertise the fact? Most would not believe it, regardless of proof. The Amazing Randi would immediately set out to debunk you, and your family would likely be ridiculed.

    The fact that returnees, if any, are not widely known means nothing.

  55. “but please remember that your truth is still a belief.”

    Oops! Forgive me, but I over-spoke here. I should have said, “your truth may not be believable to others.”

  56. Great excellent surveys, thanks for doing this.

    I couldn’t answer the questions, since I don’t qualify as a believer in past lives any longer.

    I did once believe in past lives, but then my beliefs collapsed, and at present I am back to believing the man from mud (DNA/RNA, we evolved from single cell creatures, which in turn evolved from repetitive chemical reacitons that have been occuring on planets throughout the universe).

    I’m so glad someone is doing this type of excellent raw research, which is the type that ought be transparent and open, and shared, whatever the results are.

    Thanks for doing these surveys, and I hope you do a lot more raw research, whatever you think needs surveying!

    Chuck Beatty
    ex Sea Org (1975-2003)

  57. The Holy Man

    At first glance,
    a church under every rock,
    propped against every tree.

    Lighted crosses in the night,
    One is convinced the HOLY MAN
    has a few more tricks up his sleeve.

    Is it possible to love
    in spite of all?
    Well, that was true for me.

    “People are “Created”
    by the “Supreme Being”.
    Because of him I’m me.

    God is not YOU,
    You are not God,
    Don’t know. Only believe.

    Heaven not here,
    it’s over there.
    Turn the other cheek.

    Love your neighbor.
    Don’t fight back.
    Jesus parted the Sea.

    Unattainable goals
    that give us hope but
    never set us free.

    I only deny the Holy Man
    is holier than me.

  58. Marty,

    To respond to just one of your questions: I have often felt that places such as Disneyland and Las Vegas represent implant stations.

    Aside from that, I just want to comment that you sure do keep life interesting. It was a lot less fun before you showed up.

  59. It’s just a casual survey. I wouldnt call it “scientific” (no offense intended).
    I don’t know the reason for it yet, but it’s fun to write and read what others have to say on it too.

  60. I came back. My recall was invalidated in session, not always, but enough. I still know what I know but I do not wish to discuss it too much.

  61. Well Brian, how about you present evidence that some of those who died of pneumonia did NOT do so as a result of exposure to R6 materials? It makes as much sense to demand that, as your demand. Can you falsify such a claim? That would be science. Really, you are simply asserting your beliefs – which it’s fine for you to hold, but why try to convince me to agree with you?

  62. Dear Brian,
    I found your comment intriguing, so I would like to share a few viewpoints with you.
    LRH may have been many things in his lifetime but I strongly doubt he may have gotten things wrong, as he developed the Advanced Levels — and here’s the reason that I honestly think explains the why:
    If one were to read Scientology in chronological sequence (not with DM’s rewritten books but with earlier published stuff, including the HCOBs), one gains a clear understanding that all he was trying to achieve was an undercut so that people could gain the highest levels of OT he already had discovered back in the 50’s. This includes Advanced Levels such as NOTs and Solo NOTs.
    Therefore, the chances he was projecting on others his own case are rather minimal.
    What is more likely is that people who were not ready to face the materials tried to audit on these and they did not get the results they were meant to get and therefore these levels may have been written off as pure balderdash.
    I am not on the OT band, for example, yet I have had a lo tof auditing and always had a pretty good ability to contact Past Lives. When I read the OT III – VII materials, I, too, did not die. I also thought that whoever created this dogma about the OT levels — whether it was LRH or not — was clearly over-restimulated by something these very Advanced Levels touched. It is easy to discredit something when one cannot confront it; one also can try to discredit them by saying they are dangerous; it is a form of Not-is. However reading about OT III is not the same as tryiing to run the processes of that level when you are noot ready for them.
    We do not know each other and I don’t mean to be judgemental in your regard because of your comment above.

  63. Of course, this makes a lot of sense also:

    “Space, time and energy in experience become Be, Have and Do, the component parts of experience itself. Space could be said to be BE. One can be in space without change and without time; one can also be, without action. The essence of time is apparently possession. When possession ceases, the record of time ceases. Without possession, change cannot be observed; in the presence of possession change can be observed. Thus it is deduced that time and possession are interdependent.

    The past could be subdivided into Had, Should Have Had, Didn’t Have, and Got, Should Have Gotten, Didn’t Get, and Gave, Should Have Given, Didn’t Give. The present could be subdivided into Have, Should Have, Does Not Have, and Giving, Should Be Giving, Not Giving, and Receiving, Should Be Receiving, Not Receiving.

    The future is subdivisible into Will Have, Should Have, Will Not Have, and Getting, Will Be Getting, Will Not Be Getting, and Will Receive, Will Not Receive.

    In each of the above—past, present and future—the word would apply for any individual or any part of the dynamics to all the other dynamics.”

    “The way one knows there was a past is by knowing the conditions of the past. The most revelatory of these is the facsimile which was taken in the past. However, without any possession in the present stemming forward from the past, the past becomes unimportant; or, because possession ceased, the past is obliterated.

    The single matter of the body of a past life not being in the present life invalidates the existence of the past life to the individual who then does not—or does not care to—remember it.”

    “Should one care to test this as a process on a preclear, he will find that the missing portions of the preclear’s past have to do with loss of something. Loss itself is the single aberrative factor in living.”

    Quotes taken from T H E J O U R N A L O F SCIENTOLOGY
    Issue 7-G [ 1952, ca. late November]
    Published by
    The Hubbard Association of Scientologists, Inc.
    Phoenix, Arizona

    The Components of Experience

    L. Ron Hubbard

    As “past lives” are part of time, and time is just objects moving through space.

  64. In a shopping center parking lot. No repeats though…got it?!? 😉

  65. “How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?”

    How does one prove such a thing “irrefutably?” A guy called Dr Stevens had many cases of childhood recall where children recalled their past life location, families etc. Some even re-established relationships with their previous families. When a 7 year old gives detailed descriptions of an area she has never been and of people she has never met and then these turn out to be real, is this “irrefutable”? Yet people refute it.

    I remember back in the Dianetics Foundations we had filing cabinets of case reports showing miraculous recoveries through use of Dianetics. We advertised for people with serious diseases and cured them. Absolutely “irrefutable”. Yet, people would not even want to read those case reports. People refuted it.

    There is a book called Forbidden Archaeology which digs up all the “irrefutable” evidence that archaealogists routinely throw out because it doesn’t fit in with the accepted opinions. It is amazing how people can refute the most black and white evidence.

    There is no such thing as “irrefutable evidence” unless you are talking about personal integrity. Experiencing something for oneself. That is the marvel of Scientology. With simple questions and procedures we invite a person to experience it for himself. There is no other way. That is irrefutable.

  66. Wow, Marty, are you going to tell us at some point where is this heading?
    1. I vaguely remember reading an HCOB (or maybe it was RJ 67?) where LRH mentions that the implant stations here on Earth are not really manned but run pretty much on automatic.
    I know there is one, apparently, on the Pyrenees and there should be one on the dark side of the moon; I know no other ones.
    As a curiosity, a British guy by the name of David Icke said some rather interesting stuff about the fact that the moon is some sort of implant station and not a an actually natural satellite — more like a giant spaceship acting as an antenna of sorts to keep us all enslaved by cancelling our innate perception of reality. Do’t know if you ever heard of him but you might want to listen to some of his recent Events he has held in England. I did and some of the stuff was interesting. I’m not a “hard-core conspirationalist” but some of the stuff he said resonated.
    2. I’ve met plenty of people who claimed to be returnees. I have even audited a few.
    I just don’t think we should put too much significance on who we were last lifetime, except maybe to continue our Bridge progress from where we left off.
    As I said in the survey, getting implanted or not is all a matter of being aware and hatted on the anatomy of traps — I don’t think case level is of any major significance; true, someone who is on the OT band is probably more aware but unless he is also hatted and trained, he is at risk all the same.

  67. Tom Gallagher


    I think this series is a thought provoking as well as commendable group auditing session. This cuts to the ultimate quick, IMHO. Thank you.

  68. Not sure where that datum comes from, but I believe there is truth to it. Moths are attracted to certain light too, but if they gravitate toward the wrong light — like a flame — they are toast. So to die and be surrounded by white light and religious figures and loved ones with a great feeling of peace — is that liberation, or part of the trap?

  69. Heather R.
    Look up the the last couple of tapes of the Phoenix Lectures, it is in one of them.

  70. PS In a somewhat Buddhist perspective, would being surrounded by those peace-inducing personages make us feel at peace because we are liberated, or because we have mocked up the things that will reduce our anxiety because we then feel we have not lost all that we are attached to?

  71. Tom Gallagher

    Not to be a smart ass, but the only currently operating implant station that is of any significance is the one manned-up in Hemet, California by some
    5′ 4″ lunatic known as Pope on a Box.

  72. LOL! 🙂

  73. Forever Lurker

    “Without the resurrection, Jesus is just another wise man, not one who has conquered death, and thus the essential Nicene creed — that Jesus is God — is gutted. Likewise, Buddhism is based on the assumed factuality of Gautama Buddha’s full enlightenment. The doctrine of the Buddha means little if he himself did not fully realize what he preached.”

    Excerpt from: The Three Dangerous Magi: Osho, Gurdjieff, Crowley
    For those that got into Scientology in the early 70’s, Hubbard’s future resurrection became a proof point. That he would come back fully aware and cognizant of his past. He told many in the SO that he would and even put it in writing in letters and dispatches. (Marty might be aware of some of them.) Even stated an exact date for his return which has come and gone.

    This “resurrection” of our leader would prove all, show the world the refinement of the tech, and the power of LRH as the “next Buddha” or spiritual leader of earth. (That’s covered by LRH dispatches re: The Messiah Project in the late 70’s and early 80’s.)

    Ron made statements for thirty years that he had broken the code and delivered on the promises of Buddha — breaking the cycle of unknowing birth and death. Well he’s got to “resurrect” or else.

    If a religion/science (and Ron personally) has promised the Buddhist end result of a being who can step off the treadmill of coming back life after life unknowing, well he’s got to come back and show it. Sorry, but that falls under truth in what you advertise to some degree. At least that’s the way most mortals would think about it.

    I believe a “Hubbard resurrection” is the essential for the future of this religion/science in its most pure form . . . that is, the promise of OT and full rehabilitation to a more native state for all beings. Without that, I think it’ll just fade out and become simply a self-help practice (Dianetics incident running and grades), more or less. Or just fade away over time.

    I’m happy with what I got on the bridge I did, but I was promised so many more eye-popping capabilities in the 70’s by Ron and others. (See the early 70’s Grade Chart for example.) And much of that has just faded away or been forgotten.

    The world needs to see Ron return to establish credibility for all the promises and claims that he made for thirty years about OT. As a footnote, Ron told Ken Urquhart (his personal aide and my former auditor) in the early seventies that he had researched 86 OT levels already.

    And so I ask: Where is Ron now and what happened here?

    I’m not being mean or disrespectful in the least. I was promised so much more. Any intelligent person would ask what I’m asking. Seems obvious to me.

  74. 2.
    A) I dont know why in general. It could be that often a person’s recall isnt perfect. Many times probably beings are more concerned about the present and future than they are past lives. For myself in general, past lives only came up in session in metered auditing and the auditor had to give me the “there, there” nudges to get me to look at those things. I think an auditor or C/S that has much experience dealing with past life claims as to specific past identity would have greater insight on this question.

    B) I dont feel strongly enouph about this issue to go on any crusade to “educate” or enformce my knowingness or belief on the subject. Besides, how do i know or not if a being that beleives that the implant stations are still operating didnt come from another region of the univese where such opoerations are still ongoing? Anyway, if a being is progressing towards spiritual enlightment, they will sort themselves out on this issue.

  75. I would love to see a thread like this about exteriorization too.

    So many Scientologists talk about it so casually. One of the L’s has as its EP being stably exterior with full perception.

    LRH talks about going exterior at will casually. And many hundreds of OTs and L’s completions casually talk about going exterior like its no big deal. But if going exterior is a literal thing, where as a being you are actually located in a physical space other than behind your eyes, and if one can control the position or even change it at will, that would be something so truly valuable as to be almost unspeakable. If this ability is real, why would LRH not have used this ability in times when it would have forwarded his ends. Or Mary Sue? Not to pick on them, but they were the furthest up the Bridge. If MSH were able to, she could have exteriorozed, followed DM and/or Pat B to find out where LRH was and not have been at the mercy of DM and PB.

    LRH could have gone ext and checked out the int board meetings to see what was really going on, and not have been manipulated the way he was by DM and PB.

    Things like that. There are so many examples I can think of where the ability to go exterior at will could have been used to the church’s (or an individual’s) benefit, but that ability seems to not have been present.

    But it’s supposed to be one of these fundamental OT skills.

    I would love to see discussion about this.

    I personally believe that if there were SCNs who had clear recall of their past lives, particularly a last life as a Scientologist, they WOULD be widely known among the field.

    Rumors travel among the SCN field faster than anything. There would be HUGE positive reinforcement value in a story like that (aside from the fact that DM would be driven crazy by the idea that anyone could be in that good case shape and would probably find a reason to declare such a person).

    But the PR value among Scienctologists would be huge, and true, valid cases of this clear past life recall would create huge reaches for the Bridge, because it would be PROOF that the carrot is real.

    So I think it’s a very valid question. Tons of OTs have died over the past 20 years. So…where are they?

    Also, what’s the deal with LRH saying he was going off to Target 2, but CST has one of the bases prepared for his return? That threw me for a loop when I first heard that.

  76. Pierre Robillard

    1a. I think it no longer exists.
    1b. No. But planet earth acts as a restimulator, especially when SCN Inc, and planet S.P.’s are plotting to enslave mankind.
    1c. Increase their awareness by fighting rightful causes and/or auditing them.
    2a. I think it is a personal thing. There are some people I met this lifetime who seemed to be past life Scientologists. I remember one young girl on the Solo course at St. Hill who was used to get big reads on dating drills.
    On the other hand there was a lady on staff in Montreal in 1992 that kept telling everybody that she was OT3 in a previous life. But the dates did not concur and she was quite insane.
    2b. I feel no obligation. I think currently there’s a lot more important games to play than this.

  77. Yes, past lives are not “politically correct” in western European/American cultures, according to “the powers that be”.

  78. To be honest this is all rather boring to me. All I need to know about this subject is what I know for myself. I have my integrity on the subject, all else is extracurricular noise.

  79. Great surveys, see the change they’re producing as charge blows off! My own answers:
    1. a) Beings like us, with a more sophisticated electronic technology but much less knowledge of the mind and spirit. There could be more than one group operating, as LRH has suggested.
    b) Anyone who’s gone into the valence of an implanter could represent them unwittingly, by keeping the implants restimulated in others. I don’t have a shred of evidence for the presence on Earth of agents employed by Espinol or any other off-planet group. In fact, alien conspiracy theories might actually play into their hands by keeping Earth’s inmates enturbulated and suspicious of each other.
    c) I’d love to, if I knew what to do! If asked, I’d recommend someone leaving the body to beware of any “helpful” apparitions, light paths and anything that looks like part of R6 (if they didn’t know about R6, I’d say steer clear of anything looking awesome, holy, fascinating, deeply meaningful etc). Just go to a safe location on Earth and sit calmly before deciding where to go next. KFrancis’ comments above are good advice, although the details might vary from person to person.
    It’s natural to want to find the implanters and fix their little red wagon. All the time we’ve been on Earth we’ve been mistaking each other for the real sources of suppression, and fighting among ourselves. Always picking the wrong targets because the real enemy was out of reach. There’s a HCOB or HCOPL of December 1964 where LRH says having the data about the station that he visited could stop scientologists reporting back there. When everyone disconnects from it, the implant station will become irrelevant even if it hasn’t already closed down.

  80. This video shows, to me, that what we are talking about is possible.

    I’d expect the C of S to be able to produce stories like this.

    Also, bit of a tangent, but…why is it that despite the fact that SCN is a very space-opera philosophy, and despite the fact that LRH was pretty clear about the extra-terrestrial component of life on earth…despite all that, why is it that any Scientologist who claims to have had this-lifetime contact with extra-terrestrials is labeled crazy, at least on org lines?

    Sometimes this label is only applied in the folder, and the pc doesn’t even know that his admission has damaged his reputation. The PC is mocked at Tech Hierarchy meetings or behind the door of Dept 3. Even at Advanced Orgs. Every PC I knew of at PAC who had discussed having had some such contact, even unwilling contact, was on “the list”. Some called it the “watch list” or the “crazy list”, and it was known among the Qual staff that these people would not be allowed on the OT Levels, because they were “crazy”.

    Never made any sense to me.

  81. Hapexamendios

    I’ll second this. I’d love to see a discussion about exteriorization as well.

  82. thankyou Ralph!

    I looked up to you a lot Ralph, in the Sea Org, since you exemplified what I thought Scientology OT people would be acting like.

    You were a pretty good mentsch, and you played OT games, publicly, I watched you and that heavyset fellow, forget his name, he went on to work at the int Base, you used to play OT guessing games with him, and you’d both laugh and have good times at it.

    I expected OT Scientologists to be trying out their “OT wings” and I recall you did that, so you sorta kept the dream alive for me, Ralph.

    When you got nailed, scapegoated, it didn’t really dent my good thoughts for you.

    Anyways, for history, I hope future experts of Scientology note, that Ralph Hilton seemed to me, to be a person genuinely on the road to what I had hoped was real OT abilities, and I witnessed you and that other Sea Org heavyset guy, he’s famous, worked in grounds at the Int Base for years, horsing around doing “OT quiz games” or something.

    Leroy Byron Turner is the one.

    Ralph you definitely need to be interviewed in depth. Or someone needs consolidate all your writings, you have a huge long story.

  83. KFrancis: At the end of this life stay away from any tunnel of light that has a “feel good” flow of light and sensation pouring through it and an incredible sense of love,relief etc…. This I believe is the begining of the implant process and invites you to show up willingly. This is their electonics at work!

    Don’t be fooled by the presence of your “grandmother”, “lost dog”, “best friend” or any other items that are present. I believe they are simply reading your own memories and showing them back to you. Again…their skill with electronics is unbelieable skilled-they can read you memories and mental pictures.

    Move the side of this ” tunnel” and be gone or if you are curious move way off to one side and follow it up to its source and there I am sure you will find the implant boys.

    Auditor viewpoint would be to blow the thing.

    When you get through the tunnel ask for a seat and order the “Rare Sumatran whole bean” Christmas blend.

    Failure to serve in timely fashion, inept brewing by winged staff results in “What have you done?” and “What have you withheld from me?” , murder routines, etc.

    The one with the big halo … personally I’d let him have it with NOTs, ’cause he’s not really behind the 8-ball.

    If you can handle a bureaucrat, this’ll be a piece of cake. What works here, will work in heaven too.

    Alternately one could just move up the bridge and might find the spiritually assisting personnel nowhere to be found.

  84. Ralph,

    LRH in the INCOMM traffic, to Foster Tompkins, throws out the idea that we (earth) have some drones, unmanned, observing earth, is all.

    I didn’t see anything re implant stations.

    But he cautioned Foster not do anything harebrained with the drones, as Foster volunteered. LRH was just saying those drones had some advanced computer shit in them, which he implied would be way more advanced than anything on earth. And LRH and Foster were in a long back and forth traffic despatch conversation, the likes of which, I’ve never seen between any Sea Org person and LRH. (The INCOMM traffic is just voluminous long answers from LRH, all full of odds and ends wholetrack stuff, I’ve commented elsewhere what I could recall.)

  85. And it is sad and I’m incredulous that all the positive experiences in the after life is seen in such a negative way. And to think that in this day and age there are human beings who see my post as Brian dramatizing.

    And it is that elitist hidden data line that normal people feel around Scientologists that cause the mistrust.

    You see us through the filter of r6. It is a prejudice and condescension of the highest calibur to view others knowledge as part of the cosmic cabal to enslave the universe by talking about the joyous light of the soul.
    Science even now sees all as light.


    Society will not let this divisive doctrine alone. It will dog you at every turn.
    It will never leave you alone.

    This doctrine is an invalidation of the accumulative wisdom of thousands of years.

  86. The first place I heard it was the movie Poltergeist

  87. Valkov, Ron in no uncertain terms predicted dissaster for anyone getting hold of the records. So here is the test, where are these broken lives from hearing about OT3.

    I am not concerned with your agreement or conversion.

    I am simply asking a question.

  88. Interesting survey, indeed!

    Despite the Cof$/ “Church” of Miscavige’s attempts to indoctrinate/brainwash its members, including myself into a primitive one-valued logic where one is not to believe or engage in any other schools of thought but LRH or even worse not to accept any other opinions but Miscavige’s points of views, I still believe that “knowledge sets you free – any knowledge…With that being said, I think LRH’s input on the existence of Implant Stations should be viewed as a POTENTIALLY valuable piece of information but not as the ONLY possible truth. Educating others about the possibility of the existence of Implant stations could be beneficial for the time when we pass on (given that we will be fully aware as spiritual beings and able to decide). On the other hand, if the ideas of implant stations were born out of fiction, then we as spirits will also know then.

    Now to your questions Marty:

    2A. On this one I am not arguing pro or contra as I do not have valuable personal experience but here a counter question: 1. Why would a Scientologist with all of his Implant knowledge get into an implant station again, once dead?

    2B. See above write-up…

    One-valued Logic, “primitive, logic, where everything is assumed to be the product of a devine will, and there was no obligation to decide the rightness or wrongness of anything.” LRH

  89. Flavp, I’m simply sharing what I know. Again, I am not concerned nor need anyone to agree with me.

    But my hopes are part of Marty’s question. I feel compelled to be in that ever growing catagory of people that dares to communicate the highest Scientological heresy, that this between lives mumbo jumbo is bogus garbage. Sorry for the bluntness, but it honest and truthful.

    To those that will get it if they are on the fence-great!

    The rest will simply buy into the line that I am keyed in. That’s ok too.

    Like Ron said, one day Scientology will have to run out Scientology.

    Yet, it is really an impossibility to argue these things. If you have spent years believing in something and dedicated your whole life to agreeing to it, especially after spending thousands or hundreds of thousands to learn it, I would not want to hear me talking either. I would be seen as a heretic.

    Believe me, it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been branded heretic.

    It seems to my lot in life. I am starting to like it 🙂 lol!

    But ultimately I agree with Victor Frankal: decency is the only value I cherish in people.

    You could wear magic underwear, chant up and down with a bad haircut, spend a million dollars to attain freedom from overwhelm and never attain it but continue to give excuses why you did not get it, sing songs to space people, play with snakes on and on. Who cares.

    The bottom line: are you a decent human being who respects the rights of others.

    It is all a play, a cosmic play of the Static, God, Spirit!

    Ouch, I’m getting a headache ahhh!!! Oh no I’m feeling…… Ahhhh!!!

    Just kidding:-)

    Thank you for putting up with me:-)

  90. Chuck, I am glad to see you here weighing in on this conversation. I am trying to wade through much of this with an honest and open mind. I am willing to learn, willing for my assumptions to be wrong, and even willing to be counted among the sheeple who simply do not know. But I am not willing to accept as truth that which I do not believe only to be told I am unable to understand because I am too low on Ron’s awareness scale. I AM willing to entertain that as a hypothesis, and am willing to look, listen and learn.

    Well, I guess I am willing to hear that I am low on the awareness scale. That does not seem too far-fetched to me. But I am not willing to accept that my unwillingness to accept unverifiable conspiracy theories places me at effect of those ideas. On the contrary, I find that my stubbornness regarding willingness to listen, my willingness to ask for verification places me at cause over reciept of data.

    At the same time, my evaluation of data is based on intuition, academic training, and the scientific model. Are there other processes that would contribute to the accuracy of my understanding? I expect that someone will respond that I should refer to the Data Series Evaluator’s Course.

    I am willing to explore the Data Series so long as it is available. In doing so, will I find answers different than what I have already found?

  91. Lol thank you Tony! Lol

  92. This answer sticks out – no one asked. No one responded. Isn’t this LACK of response an invalidation in itself?

    Just askin’….

  93. There woudl be no need for a repeat. I got the message the first time. Do you remember where LRH said that a large part of the data he got about the spirit was from going exterior during an operation. Same for me with my motorcycle accident.

  94. I’ve met two previous life Scientologists. NO surprise to me and it is no surprise to me that this is not some celebrated event in Scientology circles. What did you expect. Same with past live adn exteriorization. No big deal if you’ve been aorund for awhile.

  95. Or is it a bitchin party with friends out of the body! One of the most problamatic conceptual booby traps that Ron has layed in is that of light.

    He has successfully duped you into considering part of the fabric of creation-light is somehow a punishing torture.

    Science will soon proove this one false as all of matter is composed of light. Light is good. It is fundamental to life itself.


    I am not between lives at the moment, so I am not sure that I am eligible to answer this survey……………. 🙂 however,

    1a) I don’t know, but if the implant stations are still in operation in this part of the physical universe then they are probably operated, as usual, by degraded beings who have, themselves, been implanted.
    If current implants are the result of restimulation of earlier implants, then people are sort of implanting themselves unknowingly.

    1b) I don’t know. There possibly could be people running around who are knowingly playing the game of implanting others as representatives of off-world societies, but I have never verified this myself. To my observation, there certainly are many people running on this planet who work to implant people with uninspected ideas and reactive behavior by use of force for the benefit of the implanter.

    3c) Yes, I do feel that obligation. I think that the advice “not to go into the tunnel” is very good advice to pass along to people, especially when they get closer to the point of leaving a body.
    Also, there is a SHSBC tape entitled “Between Lives Implants”, taped on 23 July 1963, where LRH says:
    “Now you’ve been given such a compulsion to be there… Here I am up (at the) the Van Allen belt and I take a look around and I see the sun and I get myself oriented and I’m just spotting myself around, you know, getting ready to flex a bicep or something like this, and I just glance in the direction of Venus and I go – I’m on the landing stage. See, the compulsions shift me in space.” (pg 176 of the transcript)
    and here’s a solution he gives for the problem:
    “Now, supposing Scientologists just elected a place to be when they kicked the bucket. And supposing, why, we simply ran out – and actually it’s just a section of this implant, and even though it jams the case up, who cares – run out that compulsion, even by repeater technique, don’t you see? We can do that, see. Run that compulsion to appear over there, you see. And then tell the guy very strong and hard, Well now, where is a good place where you’re very familiar with? Well, when you die, appear there. Now remember that. When you die, appear such-and-such a place.’ Different place. Two or three hundred years, even with no processing, you’d be free. In other words you’d live it out. Look at the amount of time that’s just been bought. Because frankly, it wouldn’t take more that a couple of hours to do this job on anybody. If you simply told a thetan to be in a place where he was familiar with or liked to be, he would exteriorze. You can ask somebody what he’s familiar with.” (pgs 178-179 of the transcript)

    I recommend that everyone listen to this tape before they “die”……yet again! 🙂

  97. And when that light comes as a pure calm perception……. Such joy, happiness, love, patience etc.
    So sad that you’d see these as dark insane bank taking over this poor reck of a mind in Brian.

  98. Brian culkin,

    To me your post sounds a little bit like those who dismiss the idea that any conspiracy exists anywhere. In fact most of what makes the worlds turn is cloaked in secrecy by groups “breathing together” outside the view and hearing of others. As Marty has amply demonstrated here on his blog, with revelations of legal tampering by the CoS, “shore stories”, PI shenanigans etc. Backroom deals are a fact of life in politics anywhere. I would wish I had your rose-colored glasses, except I think in the end they would not be to my benefit.

  99. Li'll bit of stuff

    Absolutely, Crusader! James Linegar ( James 3 )The boy
    who made the breakthrough – turned skeptics into believers.
    This documentary clip(see the full version of 14.29 enitled
    Reincarnation-Evidence of past lives) transcends the heap
    of codswallop and BS being pumped out as fact, when there
    is no consistency among the other stories.

    The amazing research by the late Dr. Ian Stevenson, makes
    over 400 personally investigated cases available for critical
    review. The evidence is out there. for skeptics and believers

    After over 40 years in Scientology, with convincing recall on
    my own past lives during audited life repair sessions, plus
    considerable evidence shared by others, I have come down
    to one very simple conclusion, and that is:

    ….One is either “alive” in a body — or one just IS!

    Or, to put it another way –your’e either IN the “game” or you
    remain a “spectator” or you remain in a “slumber”—the
    common denominator to all this is “you.”


  100. Li'll bit of stuff

    AR, I share your view on this. All seems so superfluous and
    just deserves to be tossed into the bin of “para-scientology”

    I much prefer the option of ” keeping it real.”(perceivable!!)


  101. EnthralledObserver

    Everyone is as equally as special as everyone else – L Ron Hubbard included. He’s merely a man… why is he alone given the reverence that makes a group of people think he is the be and end all of knowledge over others who are also looking? I think this notion is absurd. Of course the man could be wrong… and quite frankly probably is on a lot, if not most, of his theories. (Because that’s what scientology is – theory… not a scrap of researched or tested results to be found!)

  102. “They are after all memory wipe-out stations-They don’t want you remembering!”

    I think the opposite. I consider “memory” in itself , or, to “remember” perhaps an implant of it’s own IF the person doing it, is not aware that they CREATE “THE PAST” in the PRESENT.

    Remembering a past life is something that is CREATED in the present. I would be more suspicious of memory and false memory than no memory myself. Often people complain they “can’t forget”.
    Really? What kind of person would not be able to forget? What kind of person would not be able to remember? It is not so much the remembering or forgetting but the PURPOSE behind remembering or forgetting. This is the glue that holds the rest in place. This is the kind of stuff you address on L12. Purpose is senior to mechanics, all mechanics. You get the purposes sorted out, the rest sorts out.

    The same with the implant stations people say are there. What kind of person would report to an implant station? What kind of person would “fail to report in”, What kind of person would “forget” to report in? “What kind of person would “remember” to report in? And, what is the purpose of each of these people?

    Knowing, is not the same as remembering. Remembering is not the same as knowing.

    The entire universe and everything in it simply responds and adjusts itself about a person’s purposes.

    And I have also seen people keyed in to their analytical mind, far worse than their reactive mind.

    I guess I do feel an obligation to educate. There is a wide difference between “educating” and getting someone to “remember” also.

    Only today I had a realization about my own stupidity and blindness on a certain recent issue , that was utterly humiliating. At the end of the day I have to figure out what my purpose was for being stupid and blind around this certain issue. I’ll find it. Face it. And move on with that sorted out.

  103. I got it, and mostly, similarly concur Nancy. It seems always a hot topic, for obvious reasons, but nothing I’ve heard from the highest of highest, seen or personally recalled has me nailed to a cross, er, conclusion.

  104. “So I think it’s a very valid question. Tons of OTs have died over the past 20 years. So…where are they?”

    They are not obligated to “report in”. They are not obligated to “come back”. I don’t feel I have to know where they are. Scientology is a temporary game to many people. I think the average Sea Org member that signs a billion years contract lasts two years. This idea that everyone is supposed to stick together like some eternal family isn’t shared by all. If you are not going to make it your business to audit for a profession, you come in, go up the bridge and move on. You pay, you get, you go. It is not a culture or a way of life to everyone. I think it’s just fine if people want to move on and just make the world a better place. This idea that there are other hidden obligations that never end has become huge. There are customers in this game. They come, they buy and then they leave. I KNOW it is TABOO in the culture to walk away and go off and do your thing. But the fact is there are cash exchange cycles. You buy what you want there, just like any other store.

  105. There are many reports from those experiencing death or “near death” who claim to have seen and/or are drawn toward a white soothing light. expérience de mort imminente is the term proposed by a French psychologist. Others, notably psychiatrists in the medical field postulate it is merely a last response by some series of synapses within the brain itself.

    As Scientologists, we are conditioned from the beginning to believe this isn’t a matter for much discussion, less you are in doubt.

  106. Man, love to get my hands on those dispatches. Any way possible Chuck?

  107. lol. Keep reading…………… one day you’ll get it 😉

  108. 1) Some projects that bear fruit only in some long distant future do not make sense when they are carried out by persons pretending to believe they live only one life.
    Example: To suppress and confuse the finances of countries as to achieve one single currency for the entire planet to make it easier to rule. These type of projects make only sense from an exterior viewpoint.

    a. Last time I had contact it was a mixture of bureaucrats following orders and a few suppressives. They were accessible to auditing. That station feels abandoned now.

    2a) “Reality is proportional to the amount of charge off the case.”
    In 1990 I had written a request concerning that to the RTC which got never answered. The question was: “How can we make sure such persons do not get mistreated casewise and pushed into difficulties when they show up in Class V orgs.”
    This question seems to have never been solved.

  109. I’ve read something similar before from you Chuck. I would be very interested in hearing more about your shift of view, if you care. You can reach me through my FB account.

  110. a) Who operates these stations?

    ’63 was a big year for LRH implants lectures, the very last one dealing with ‘Implant Stations’. Virtually all of it’s elements show up a few years later as R6, and the III Course student is specifically cautioned not to delve into this portion of the materials to be run.

    In that 6307C23 lecture LRH talks about dispatch towers on Venus, methane atmospheres, being nearly run over by a freight locomotive and people erroneously thinking its unlivable. 8 months earlier in late 1962, Mariner 2 (confirmed in 1991) had already proved all this to be incorrect. Fact is, the atmosphere is C02, temps around 700 Fahrenheit and enough atmospheric pressure to crush a Sherman Tank.

    LRH likely got his perceptions deep-R6’d without knowing at the time what he was really looking at.

    There are no rundowns or instructions which specifically deal with keeping one’s butt out of implant stations or what courses of action one should take, but he continued to stress the importance of moving up the bridge.

  111. Li'll bit of stuff

    EEEK!.ealadha! that scareth my thetan, just when I tot i
    saw a puddy tat — you wheel out a boogie man. Yikes!!!

  112. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Hey Marty!
    I didn’t answer your original survey because I simply don’t really have enough certainty or personal reality outside of an auditing session to verify whether what came up was true or not. However I’m loving the surveys and reading the responses to them.

    I don’t know if the following link is a hoax or not but someone forwarded it to me in their own attempt to disseminate the truth about ‘the human condition’. Like the explanations found in Scientology this would be treated with equal derision and disbelief and yet I found the explanations contained would probably align with my own regardless of the ‘unbelievable’ form (reportedly a transcript on an interview with an alien).

    I would say the biggest barrier to anyone (including Scientologists) discussing anything beyond the general acceptable ‘orthodox’ earthbound ideas is our own disbelief and ridicule at any idea that would go against convention. Add to that the oft spoken rule ‘thou shalt not discuss thy case’ and Scientologists are saddled with the additional dilemma of being unable to talk about THEMSELVES beyond the confines of the body they inhabit this lifetime. I would say that’s the main reason past lives are not discussed or acknowledged amongst Scientologists. Add to this the further problem that (in my experience) past life auditing is not even acknowledged or considered to be of any worth or value within corporate $cientology so as applied in that manner you may as well throw the entire subject away as the end result is to invalidate rather than have any value in therapy.

    As to how any real or imagined suppression of our true spiritual nature would take form on earth I would surmise such activity to be conducted in by ‘leaders’ (and their ever willing followers) who continue to dramatize the need to enslave others with lies and treachery in the name of ‘help’ under the guise of ‘religion’ and ‘government’.

    My own journey continues. So many ideas to explore so little time. I remain confident that we can reach the spiritual freedom of truth and certainty we all so very much desire as long as we remain cautious about taking ANYTHING on ‘faith’. Happily I find many other ideas tending to align and agree with basic Scientological principles. This gives me hope.

    Love to all xxx ❤

  113. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    PS – Had I shown up for an auditing session to find my past life PC folders sitting on the desk complete with worksheets to verify everything I had originated I would have been completely satisfied. However despite giving my name and the location of my PC folders on more than one occasion this was never done and led me to a Q & A (and self-listing) about the past life identity I had originally given.
    So I guess in the final analysis I have no reason to believe something which could have so easily verified and yet never was.
    I wonder if anyone else had this experience? Giving their name in the expectancy that their PC folders would be located only to be disappointed or entirely ignored?

  114. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Opened a can of worms Marty 🙂 x

  115. Marianne NICAUD

    1. a) I read things about that but I don’t remember.
    b) Probably but I don’t know in what form.
    c) Yes, I think both things have to be done.

  116. Li'll bit of stuff

    BTW, being IN the “game” definitely should include
    the potential to operate with OR without a body!

  117. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    LFBD F/N 😉 x

  118. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Thank you! xxx

  119. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    I wonder if past life PC folders are covered under the Data Protection Act? Haha!

  120. I knew someone once who was sure about his past life (before this one identity) He didn’t advertise it. The identity was known by a very few. One day on the Internet I obtained a portrait of that person he had been; put it up on my computer. Without letting him know what he was in for, I said I have a picture I want to show you. He looked, and his body instantly backed three feet, Oh, yes, he recogized the person! Such a reaction wouldn’t be missed by even a person without Scientology training.
    Normally when a person drops a body they are done/ended with the lifetime. It serves no purpose to carry it around with them. Some lifetimes may carry more importance than others. Proving them objectively is almost impossible–why bother? Past lives are para-Scientology anyway.

    I don’t feel an obligation to release anyone from whatever considerations they have about implant stations. If someone wants auditing, and wants that handled, sure, I’ll handle it.

  121. Hi, That is interesting about the Double Body Inc. I had a Sodium Pentatol Surgery in 1952, ran it out book one style in 1954. Crashed into my body that was held in pawn. Got into running the incident in the first place because of a funny bubbly sensation I was experiencing in my p.t. body–it was a transfer of the sensation from the fluid in the body sized jar that held the body.
    I destroyed the bottle that held the body. I would probably have said it was on “Mars” too, for location, although it certainly isn’t on our present time Mars. Very real; full color. Maybe now-a-days it would have been called a revivification, but it was hugely real and being able to break that bottle was a great relief; sensation gone of course. Glad to be out of that mess.

  122. Li'll bit of stuff

    That last sentence makes a pretty good “stable datum”
    in dealing with life –even on this planet ( we effed up! )
    don’t ya think, ealadha???

  123. Setting people up for loses happens in Scientology too. I remember the first time I was at attest and I was asked, “Would you like others to have the same wins you have had?” My first thought was, “Is that possible? Because other people are not me.” Then I pushed that aside and assumed I would not be asked the question if it were not possible. In all attest cycles after that I answered, “Yes!” Only to bring people in or get others on the bridge and notice that NO, although they did the same fucking process, they DID NOT have the same wins as me. Right now I can tell you that is why they are sitting on ESMB. The losses I was set up for on flow 2 were monumental. Heartbreaking. Hubbard did his best, and believed in the best of us, to standardize evolution. I think he was going for an unattainable goal. We have all done that. There is very little mercy from the “customers”. They can not see how the losses have anything to do with them. Anyone who has won, is “hallucinatory” or a “Kool aid drinker” and that explains why they, with every tool laid in front of them, took the motion that came in and used it to loose and loose and loose. They perverted it. That was a PURPOSE. To loose is a purpose. Nothing can come between a person with that purpose . That is not easy to confront. What has David Miscavige done but cater to those purposes? He has actually profited off of these people! But in what way? Coins. The first coin was forged in the 16th century. That is where his time track is hung up.,

  124. There comes a time in Scientology, when you have to confront you have played a fool. Some people can own it and move forward, some people go into a protest read that can not be overcome. Like, they did not get it in the beginning they came in the front door because they were not wrapped too tight as a package. They are told how all powerful and all knowing they have the POTENTIAL to become, and in the face of that can not confront they have lied to themselves, they have lied to others. They are paying dues on a prison planet because nobody else wanted them! They just can’t own it. Maybe it was a wrong item for them to begin with. Maybe their item wasn’t on a list. Maybe they never agreed with the conditions and circumstances. Maybe I just came in with situations so obviously fucked up there was no way or even effort to “pretend”. For every game I lost in, someone was smarter than me. I admitted it. That doesn’t take a rocket scientist. It just takes someone good at math. My most uncomfortable moments in Scientology had nothing to do with long hours, sec checks, wrong items and wrong indications,no pay, abuse, out tech, staff, ethics or all of that combined. My most uncomfortable moments in Scientology were the times I had to face the fact I had been lying to myself.

  125. Couldn’t get to a computer to answer original survey. I first ran track on the old Class VIII DRD, repetitive process “Recall taking drugs” – got a track picture and somatics and was pretty blown out. On R3R, ran lots of past lives as we ran all the flows without checking for reads on them. I never questioned their validity and enjoyed running them, very interesting, lots of fun and cognitions too. As an auditor and CS, all my pcs ran past lives as well. And there were MANY pcs over many years.

    Despite the above (been a couple of decades at least since I ran any), I don’t have an unshakable certainty on all this. All logic and common sense tells me that consciousness cannot die with the body, that all the life force of all the great men/women we study about didn’t just “disappear.” I am very apprehensive about dying, as I really enjoy living, but I’m not a young guy anymore. I thought the OT levels would free one from any must have on having a body and free one from the life/death cycle (at being effect of it); that an OT would have no concern about death at all, and maybe this is true for some.

    As the bulk of my tech experience took place in the 70’s – 80s, I only heard of the phenomona of last lifetime Scientologists when Dn Clear came out and there were a number of people in the org who said they were last lifetime clears.

    I know something of what Ron says about between lives, but I have absolutely no reality on any of what happens after one dies. Completely clueless on that, similar to my feeling about “History of Man.”

    I am open to any help anyone could provide that would make me more comfortable and free about losing my this LT body. So that would be a helpful thing for anyone to do for anyone else.

  126. Good point Chuck. I hope reading these responses blow up an Hidden Standard a person has about gains and OT phenomena and feelings that everyone else may be having such and such wins and gains but they themselves are not, etc.
    If the construct of life and the universe with any “planes” or Holographs are known, its tough to prove. I think LRH and Scientology moved the ball down the field by opening up and allowing that reality for so many. However, beyond the handling of the bank for purposes of providing relief, its definitely not even close to a science. But I think few regret their time voluntarily or willfully spent in the chair exploring their case, in this world or lifetime or any other.

  127. I have almost arrived at the point where I can let it all be, with the Scientology. Those that won, those that lost, those that profited in between. I no longer A = A yourselves with me. If your results came up different than mine, you had a different purpose than me.

  128. 1a) Don’t know — they may be forgotten now
    1b) Don’t know — could be
    1c) Yes, that is why I jioned the Sea Org until DM changed the focus thus destroying the goals and adventure that LRH had created. DM has created ZERO except his luxurious life style.

  129. Fly on the wall

    Hi Lurker. I agree that scientology will carry on as a self-help activity in the area it produces the best reuslts, dianetics and grades. Workable truths should not fade away.
    LRH not having returned or not announcing it, and the old grade chart states of awareness, were promises, postulates, targets. Not met. So what. Take what was good, which you seemed to have done, and get on with life. I am not disagreeing with your points, and maybee listing them has value for people shaking off the cult ties, but beyond that it comes close to a make wrong from where i sit. We are a friendly audience. Your preaching to the choir in many cases. Why challenge us? Challenge a tru believer as you once were. Marty is attempting to move the subject in a better direction. Yours comes off as a consumer complaint of not getting what was promised to you. Your not alone. If you need an acknowledgement; ACK. If your criteria for blessing the subject and its founder is for LRH back in a new body with a public announcement, I suggest you find a comfortable chair. Or watch the South Park episode as you may have missed the announcement.

  130. Thanks Robert. Seems the ack is a missing part sometimes. We all have a lot to say. And why would we? Because we think our experiences may help someone else get thru the tunnel to present time and what we all consider reality. And we all want our friends and loved ones to ‘come back’.
    And no one can hide the truth.
    And the truth actually does heal. As in Dianetics and all after. We are just going for the truth here now guys. Lay it down!

  131. Thanks for this information. I have observed that some people were not allowed up the bridge and they weren’t told why and there was nothing they could do about it. I wonder if there are other reasons as well.

    Great to have some of these issues get publicly aired.

  132. Over the fiscal cliff 😉

  133. About time to take five laps around the outer field and drop for fifty portland! Then take a deep breath and look around………

  134. Marty,
    Thanks for doing the surveys. This will also help as a ‘false data stripping’ process for all and especially for those hung up at doubt.

    And to those reading from within the bunker that don’t even know you are in doubt, talk it over amongst yourselves and if you arrive at doubt…..ask Davey his opinion!

  135. The interview with an alien which you give a link to, reminds me of a personal experience that I had back 1996.
    I have been a Scientologist for many years. Auditing has allowed me to rid myself of spiritual defilements, thus leading to greater perceptions, especially telepathic.
    One day in 1996, I had a very strong sense of being in telepathic comm with alien beings. I could not find them with my physical eyes, but had a very strong sense of their presence above me.
    Our comm cycle lasted for perhaps an hour. They seemed amazed that a human would actually communicate with them.
    What the alien says in the link you gave is almost exactly what I got from them in 1996.
    I am beginning to see the world as an infinity of overlapping universes. I get this view from listening to the PDC lectures and pondering the formula 8-8008.
    To Marty’s question, why don’t 2nd lifetime Scientologist present irrefutable proof?
    I’d say there has been a long history of people being burned at the stake or put in mental hospitals for believing in past lives, ghosts, or magic. It seems wise to be silent about what one sometimes senses.
    Do I feel an obligation to others to educate them? Obligation implies that a debt is owed. I don’t feel that. But I don’t like to see beings suffer.

  136. Valkov and KFrancis: I read both your comments to Brian’s comment and am wondering — did the three of us read the same comment from Brian.

    To equate Brian’s comment with those that don’t believe in conspiracies somehow is a long bow, to me. I didn’t get that sense from his comment at all.

    Nor do I think he lives with rose-colored glasses. Read his “independence declaration” on Marty’s blog and tell me if you still think he lives with rose-colored glasses.

    Moreover — google his name and watch his yoga demonstrations and basket ball ability and you’ll see someone who isn’t some theety-wheety guy. Takes lots of PTness to do what he does.

    But then I know Brian and I’m guessing neither of you do. Which is the danger of commenting about someone’s comment in a negative or “put down” way.

    Doubtful you would speak to his face in the same tone.


  137. 2. a) How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?
    i. Because they didn’t get delivered what was promised (by the corp cult-church), because what was promised can’t be delivered, and
    ii. I don’t agree that one can be freed of every minute detail of their whole track and no longer have “whole track amnesia”. I believe one would/should/can be able to recall their whole track as they would/should/can be able to recall their current life, by simply recalling.

    b) Do you feel an obligation to educate those (or otherwise release them) who believe in afterlife tragedies like implant stations, or hell, so as to free them from delusion and the anxiety that might accompany it?

    i. No. If someone is searching for this answer, it is a personal journey and personal decision.
    The dogmatic proseletyzing that “one has to save humanity” becomes enforced communication. Presenting this to another of course invites free will to decide for themselves. Think for yourself, right?

  138. Yes, I did for 33 years and was ignored. When I did my own investigation I concluded those folders were destroyed.

  139. Go easy on yourself there Oracle. The question was whether you’d like them to have the same wins. That’s what you are responsible for, not whether they actually do. Also, Hubbard set it up, as best he could. Did a sterling job with what he had to work with. We can all avail ourselves of it, or not. Though we tend to love to obfuscate – the creation of barriers – it’s not really that complicated.

  140. Hi Brian, Just to be clear I don’t claim to see it that way. I am just logically considering all possibilities (and by logic I mean not just reason but all ways of knowing). There are indeed many kinds of traps in human life that are laid with bait. For some reason, that old book Voyage to Arcturus comes to mind. I would of course prefer to _believe_ that heading for the light would be the right direction, and it may well be, as we “instinctively” tend to prefer light over dark (another way to say we prefer to see, I suppose).

  141. I will say that my necessity level was so high last lifetime to get out of an area to a safe place that I just went there on losing the last body. That might be the best way of skipping the old implant station.

  142. Charles Carmichael

    1a. The folk that put us here.
    1b. Don’t think so
    1c. Honestly no, but I am currently in a ‘me, me me’ phase.

  143. Your “think” is becoming tiresome and I am beginning to tune you out. Believe what you will, but maybe stop pushing it as “truth” when it is merely your opinions, and, IMO, not very well thought out ones at that.

    Just to address one point: I don’t know anyone who got or died from pneumonia from reading OT3. But I do know some who spun in very badly from what you might call “premature exposure” to that level. One in particular wound up on psychiatric meds, did not pull out of it for at least 15 years.

    I do, however, agree with you about Frankl’s quote, up to a point – which is, I know a lot of “decent” people who are doing nothing to make this a better world, except for being “decent”. I tend to admire people the most who are both decent and effective, who care enough about people to want to help them become more able, rather than tear down whatever their belief system happens to be.

    As far as I’m concerned, few people fit that bill more than LRH.

  144. Jean-François Genest

    a) The one I recalled seemed to operate automatically, yet set up by Marcab, and above the Earth’s surface.

    b) Temples / religious buildings

    c) Yes. The more we know, the least effective the operators will become, and the Earth population will retain their memories after body death. It wouldn’t surprise me that there is a newer station in the conflict-ridden Middle-East area.

    With the Returning Scientologists I have met & communicated with, there was a trigger in the environment that made them sort of “wake up” and seek out Dianetics / Scientology.
    Me, it was a Dianetics add on TV in 1984. I was hanging out at my friend Louis’ house at 14 years old, i was in the kitchen with my back to the TV, not looking at the TV but could hear it in the background. The instant I heard “Dianétique” I froze!, got goosebumps, felt enthusiastic, turned around, and rushed to see the TV. Then I heard it on a radio add – same reaction. Interesting that Louis’ parents bought the book and had it on a table in the living room the next time I visited. I sneaked in when I could and read portions of it. I found the org shortly after. When I read the English version, I was transported in time and was vividly re-experiencing my previous life’s hands on the big green book. It was a cool experience for me.

    For some, they were born with Scientology parents. Me, I went where the US, British and European governments couldn’t find me to interrogate me; in French-speaking liberal Québec, Canada, yet close enough to the USA. There wasn’t an org in Québec City until 1976.

    Both parents worked for a hospital so I visited the hospital quite often. I felt very at ease in hospitals, understood complex medical terminology without looking it up, and excelled in biology & anatomy in school without effort.

  145. Hi George, Life will take you there. The ‘situation’ will be history! Clean Hands Make a Healthy Life,

  146. Flexible Flyer

    To me it has to do with dark ecstasy, actively promoted on this planet in everything from relationships to entertainment. You can get your kicks on R6.

    Hubbard hinted to this in the Sex and Pain bulletin but at the time it just seemed to me he was talking about pimps slapping around hookers or kinky people from San Francisco. I later realized it was dark ecstasy (vaguely in 8-80).

    Like a drug, you don’t have to put the needle in the arm or, this case, ride the wave or whatever. Just say no. Difficult to do when you think your going to have fun in a Kafkaesque society full of drudgery.

    The way I see it lots of lies exist in this process and you have to initially want it. Burroughs described this in Naked Lunch, as does Marilyn Manson (I think he’s accurate). The character Cypher in the movie Matrix touches upon it and why few turn it down. When dark ecstasy martyrs like Kemper and Zodiac mention collecting slaves for the afterlife–this is what they mean. Those who hugely profit from it on a 3D-4D level have made Faustian-like bargains.

    This topic gets into some common schadenfreude areas and addresses the nature of evil, and why being bad feels so good. Sensation (of the dark kind), as you-know-who said, sticks you here.

    To me it’s question of not buying the heavy and attractive sales pitch, after which abandon hope all ye who enter there. You don’t have to agree with it.

  147. This one kinda killed R’s cred when it came to those of a logical bent. At least as far as his purported knowledge of this particular area… 😦

  148. Hi Joe,
    I’m not trying to be sarcastic but if you got some auditing on that specific subject I think it would help.

  149. I am happy to see free communication here.

    That is the kind of survey I wanted to do when I was in the CoS.
    But that was impossible. I was interrogating Pre-OTs, but according to policies, they were not allowed to talk about their own case or sessions.

    The CoS is not release on Grade 0! Consider all the things you are not allowed to talk about! Your case, the tech, confidential data, you must not see your PC folder (I wanted to!), do not talk to journalists, do not talk to psychiatrists, etc.

    When discovering Scientology 30 years ago, I found very early these data about implant stations in the between lives area. For some reason that was making sense to me, and I decided that was something that had to be handled. I even believed that OT levels were designed to handle this issue! That was confidential, I only had data from public lectures. Later I discovered that from new OT1 to new OT8, this particular area is not adressed.

    Moreover, if the Dalai Lama is right, the between lives area is filled with illusions. If so that is difficult to assess the validity of recalls from this area.

    But I still believe, 30 years later, if between lives implant stations do exist, that has to be handled. If there is a system to enforce amnesia on past lives, that has to be handled.

  150. Q1 a: No one now. In the past, a bunch of assholes 😉 Seriously, different groups at different times.
    Q1 b: I don’t think they are represented knowingly. Unknowingly, they are represented by our bank.
    Q1 c: No. The goal would be to get the person up to a point where it did not matter, and these become interesting anecdotes.

    Q2 a: This is a DEEP question. I had my step father and my best friend die within a month of each other. One by accident, one by cancer. Both Scientologists. Both OT. During this period, the assumption of friends and family was that they would just come back and grow up again, and get back on lines. But, my thinking was… WHY? Why not just live independently of the body? Why is it a given that they would come back? What is the big freaking deal about having a meat body? I mean, they are OT, so…

    This led into my “String of Pearls” philosophy that is too much to share in a comment, but worked for me.

    But, to answer the question, each lifetime is unique, and “who you are” is very much influenced by the context of your lifetime and people you are with right NOW. If you think about schools you went to when you were young, jobs you had, groups you belonged to, cities you lived in – your whole life was involved at the time. Who your boss was mattered. Who your teachers were mattered. Your friends, all of it. Now, look back, and they don’t matter anymore – not as much, or not at all, depending on the circumstances. In many cases, their names go away. Specific details get lost… and this is in your current lifetime.

    Add a death and a few years of baby-hood and childhood and new people and relationships, and this is much more pronounced.

    Why do people have to relearn stuff when they are reborn? Good question. I think it has to do with the complete disorientation that happens at death. I also think that there is a “now I am supposed to” or an agreement that comes along with taking on a new body… but I don’t know.

    This, by the way, has led me to know that Scientology is not done. It is not complete. It gives us the means to get ready for the next phase, but it does not map the next phase.

    Q2 b: If they are Scientologists, yes. If they are not, it depends on the relationship. I have engaged in enough religions “discussions” to know that minds are not changed easily, and friendships can be ruined by this. I don’t preach, I just state what I believe just to let them know what I am thinking, with no make-wrong (but with inevitable disagreement with their position). I try to be nice about it. But I will not accept the Baptist or Catholic or Mormon or Muslim or… etc. view of the end of life. I am much more in tune with the Hindu side, and some Buddhist views. In fact, Alan Watts and certain sects of Buddhism have helped me clarify my views (even though I don’t take on his/theirs).

  151. As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I wasn’t judging you for what you said. I can totally have that you disbelieve or believe otherwise. I seek neither agreement nor disagreement. I was just expressing my viewpoint on a thing.
    And, by the way, how DID you know my underwear is magic? You got a pair of those, too?

  152. Ralph, that’s pretty much how I feel about it. What I thought was me being implanted one time, resolved after realizing, wait one damned minute, WTF am I doing this for?!?! I then carried on getting to my next life where an old OTVII friend of mine was living. 🙂

  153. Lurker,
    You know? Christians are still waiting for THEIR messiah to come back, too! Hope no one has been holding their breath for 2000 years!
    Some materials state that if LRH ever came back, he would not be coming back as a religious leader at all, anyhow.
    I am not familiar wth the references you mentioned, though.
    Subjective practices, like all spiritual arts, are tricky to maintain alive. Yes, partly they depend on everyone continuing to believe that the founder or creator either still lives or will come back. It’s a blade that cuts both ways, though: because this is basically a control mechanism.
    Often, religions depend on prophecy to maintain the belief alive. This is at best iffy, too — I mean, look at the pseudo-hysteria 2012 is creating. Apocaliptic mumbo-jumbo all over the place.
    Because a religion is basically a mest universe expression of something that is not physical to begin with (spirituality is non-physical in essence), it must alter itself, if it wishes to continue to exist in this plane. Whether it alters into something better or worse — well, as they say, only time will tell, I guess.
    So far, since the death of LRH, the church of SCN has altered itself towards something that all of us, in here, perceive as undesireable. It has gone the same route that most other religions have taken: it splintered.
    I actually consider this pretty much the natural course of things.
    Wiccanism, several thousands years ago, was the main religion. It had rules, dogmas — the works. It is still alive today but now there are branches and every one practices those very same beliefs as they best perceive them.
    Is this the route Scientology will take? I do not pretend that I would know; however, if history teaches us anything is that that is the probable pattern.

  154. Ian Stevenson noted during his past life research was that there appeared to be cultural influence at play in many case histories. Recollections appeared to be shaped by the beliefs of the individual/parents or the community (eg. in cultures that believe one cannot reincarnate into a body of the opposite sex there were minimal to no past life cases of different sexes reported). One could ask whether an individual may be more likely to “recall” incidents specifically involving implant stations (or perhaps even anything “space opera” related) after studying certain LRH materials, his influence as an author/guide and/or from the influence of others within a “group”. Not meant to invalidate btw, just simply to provoke discussion. Peace.

  155. Who operates these stations? After more thought, I think they are leftovers we carry around (or not) with us. Not sure where they originated physically and don’t particularly think they are on the planet today. I do not feel obligated to educate anybody on anything more than the fact that they are spiritual beings who live more than one lifetime. The rest is up to them.

    How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity? I think partially because the Cof$ invalidates them by not taking them seriously and looking for folders, evaluative auditors who won’t accept that. I was fortunate to have OT VII, Class VI and Class VIII auditors who made me feel completely comfortable with anything and everything I ever had to say about last life Scn. But I know this was not always the case. I also would not reveal too much until I’d done all the Grades AND was trained through Grad V with experience in the chair since I wanted this stability as a being first.

    I’ve seen a few who also think claiming past life Scn gives them status and altitude somehow too, which is a turn off. I’ve recently had a supposed past-lifer basically eval me with bullshit (as he’s floundering in life and exemplifies nothing near what he claimed to be before) like he had some status OVER me. Nope, sorry…you are what you are NOW buddy (just like I am) and although you claim all this training in your PL, get your ass in gear and learn it right and USE IT in THIS LIFE! That’s what I did and I expect the same from anybody else. (If you happen to be reading this, take the hint!)

    And then there’s the point of blowing charge off your case. Once you as-is something, it is GONE. I can tell you even as a solo auditor today, after something is blown, it is a bit grueling to try to sit there and mock it up again let’s say if I even want to write down details of what occurred beyond the reads. So when you move on to your next life, just how much of this shit (BPC) do you think you want to get back? I say NONE of it.

    If someone handles their bypassed charge from last life and previous lives and decided they were moving on and going to fully be whoever they are in this life, I wonder why they would care to even discuss last life or any previous life events. Perhaps they are living fully in the present time of this life without consideration of any past life. I am referring to someone who I consider was OT8 long before those levels were completely effed up. Just a thought. Not MY case by any means. This person, in how she deals with life, is VERY different from anyone I’ve ever encountered in session or out. She lives a very OT life so far this time around, pretty much with no case or dramatizations at all. Very interesting.

  156. Traveling circuses and carnivals.

  157. Just wanted to add that my consideration was that I definitely had not trained enough last lifetime, so this time around that was my number one priority – get trained or I wouldn’t make it. I walked in to become a Dianetics auditor and did so with ease, just like I did through the rest of my training – and loved every minute of it too. And boy am I glad I did! 😀

  158. yes portland, if we told you we’d have to then make you forget…… but that’s better than killing you, right?

  159. Roger from Switzerland Thought

    Hey Marty,

    Just read through: Of Contents

    Read it , its fascinating.
    Either LRH got his OT-Levels from there, or a Scientologist wrote that book.
    What the hell is that ?
    Science fiction or the truth that the USA wants not to be known and that’s why they relentlessly were after LRH ?
    Chapter /, 8 and 9 describe exactly “the role of earth” and the OT -Levels !
    What you think ?

  160. Sorry windhorse, I disagree. It is true I have never met BC, but I think his post stands for itself quite plainly. Re the idea of “implant stations”, he wrote: “To take it seriously is, IMO, is a cross between paranoia and an incapacity to deal with life on life’s terms which is precisely why corporate scientologists love this idea.”

    If that’s not an overt dismissal and invalidation of folks who entertain the possibility that implant stations door have existed in the past, what is it? Who actually is doing the “putting down” here?

    I have never been a “corporate scientologist” in my life. I may in fact have paranoid aspects to my personality, but that is an irrelevant ad hom. I may be less than fully able to “deal with life on it’s own terms”, but that’s more of the condescending same.

    “Methinks Brian Culkin protests too much” and perhaps you do too. You do not know what I might say to Brian face to face, but I know how I read his post and am answering face to face here in the virtual reality, just as I am answering you.

    I have never been entirely impressed by yogis who could do unusual body tricks. It is purely control of the body and does not necessarily indicate an “enlightened” or spiritually advanced person. Michael Jordan has done amazing things with his body. As have any of the performers of Cirque du Soleil. They are “OT” in a sense – of body control. It’s quite possible their ability ends there. Or perhaps some of them are in fact the “past life Clears” or returned Scientologists mentioned in these posts.

    I think the possibility of implants and possible countermeasures is worth keeping in mind, especially for those of us who are getting older and face dropping it in the near future.

    If I pay you or Brian some indulgence, can you or he guarantee me freedom from an implant experience when I die?

  161. I do know about one implant station: Scientology Inc.

  162. Christiine I think it’s great that you like and respect Brian.

    As to my comment I would not change a thing about it if I was standing in front of him face to face.If I put it in print here I stand by it and won’t shrink back because Brian is clearly more flexible than me (yoga) or can run the basketball court better.

    This a discussion about ideas and opinions not physical attributes someone might posess. When Brian enters in here with a comment he has stepped onto the playing field of ideas and I don’t care if he is prefectly sculpted at 6′ 5” and weighs 210.lbs or not.

  163. I can understand LRH saying to Foster not to touch them. Bill Robertson started playing around with them and to me appeared to end up in an overstimulated state from it. If I were to call them anything I would call them paranoia machines. What I observe currently is that conflicts occur beyond reason between Scientologists who would logically be in a state advanced beyond dramatizing them. I am aware of the 3rd party law and see its validity but often there is no 3rd party that I can find. LRH discovered basic Axioms and Logics that unveil the nature of our existence. From the basics of Scientology I would think that the strongest Independent Scientologists could work together well. I won’t accept the hypothesis that the 3rd party is alien telepathic super computers designed to watch Earth and ensure that its citizens never gain greater spiritual awareness but I’m not that sure that I can totally exclude it as a possibility either.

  164. Roger from Switzerland Thought

    Mistery resolved about this Book(interwiev of an Alien). The guy was a Scientologist for 31 years (Lawrence R. Spencer) and just took LRHs data to write a book !

  165. An intelligent person Exterior with Full Perception could gain full economic control of this planet within 20 years or less.The first few million could come from “dowsing” underground gold and platinum. It would require great skill to avoid assasination. But a being Exterior with Full Perception would not attach a great value to a particular body. The simple truth is that we do not have any beings on this planet close to that state.

  166. Ok then here is my part of the disscussion ….No!…. I did not discover inplant stations because of the power of suggestion from LRH. I discovered them because I was both physically and as a being routed through them and experienced the unholy consequences.

    I am not so weak minded that I cannot look and see for myself what occured on my time-track

    Did I experience the dire consequences of OT III ( an implant) only because LRH said it happened? I read what LRH said about it- I took him at his word and then got trained and so I could see for myself. It was just as he said it would be, real, distrubing, and full of relief when I took personal responsibility for it and ran it out successfully and not because of any “cultural influence.”

  167. OK K – you got me, I’ll jump in. Let’s take a look at your comment from above:

    “I couldn’t give you the exact name (Marcabians?) of these guys but they are the control and command group who are here to simply carry on the operation that has been in place here for a very long time.” -Kfrancis

    -what operation? do you have specifics? you seem very knowledgable about this, how do you know this? how come NASA doesn’t know about this?

    Or this gem: “They are after all memory wipe-out stations-They don’t want you remembering! Is there any l wonder then why people don’t remember them easily? Oh! …and did I mention they are very skilled with what they can do electronically?” -Kfrancis

    -what kind of electronics? have you personally seen the source code? Do you have proof of this other than recall or LRH material? where are these stations precisely? have you ever been to one?

    I will be the first person to agree with you and validate your statements if you can answer these questions!!

  168. I experienced an implant station in this life – Flag.

  169. 1a. Most of the implant areas are “self constructs” or those of mutual agreement based on out ethics of an individual
    and group of indivduals. The being or group of beings programmed these stations and are located in areas where
    the being or group committed the most destructive out ethics actions. The out ethics or evil purpose(s) were
    brought about by a massive confusion that caused one to fight the confusion and construct machinery that would:
    1. Prevent another further assault and self implanting.
    2. Manifest the machinery and/or mind-set under the falsehood of eternal punishment (I must be punished for my wrongness
    and be controlled in order to be good) or loss of immortality (I will no longer be) (I will be annihilated).

    1b. With the perversion of “standard tech” and the corruption of LRH data, the current upper level of the Church of Scientology, is very intent on implanting under the false banner of Total Freedom.
    Many other prominent world religions are implanting with the continuation of belief systems that confine the individuals thoughts to a “heaven/hell” and “salvation” scenario.

    1c. Yes, the falsehoods are being exposed by myself and others. The “reign of terror” is drawning to a close as more
    people are becoming aware of their true nature and no the false data of who and what they are.

    “Years ago I discovered and proved that Man is basically good.
    This means that the basic personality and the basic intentions of
    the individual, toward himselfand others, are good.
    When a person finds himself committing too many harmful acts
    against the dynamics, he becomes his own executioner. This gives
    us the proof that Man is basically good.
    When he finds himself
    committing too many evils, then, causatively, unconsciously or
    unwittingly, Man puts ethics in on himself by destroying himself
    and he does himself in without assistance from anybody else.

    A thetan is good. He invented a bank (reactive mind) to keep others good.
    That mechanism went wrong. And that’s why we’re here”.

    2a. We do have and sometimes see such individuals (like myself) who have been processed with the tech and returned.
    Being attracted by the data of Scientology in current life, we have guarded the data and tech against being
    distorted and its improper use to enslave others. The data we always had (buried under unethical actions to
    control others throughout our long history of beingness). The data is us and our greatness of operating in and out of a physical universe. The tech is an LRH original for this planet for beings implanted and imprisoned by their own devised traps.

    2b. I am GUNG HO (“enthusiastic” or “dedicated”) on bringing out the greatness of the individual and having them
    reach a genuine cognition concerning the shadows that they themselves have created and hide therein.

  170. Oops! I left out mentioning the psychs as a great group of implanters.

    Best wishes for Total Freedom this coming year.


  171. Roger,
    Lets say I am mid session and would write a book of what I have recalled. The stories I tell in that book are true according my observation at the time I observe my past. Later in that session my point of view might change and I might realize that all that I wrote in that book is only half truth. Maybe it could be true, maybe not. But mid session I only have time place form and event. But if those events are partly or fully implanted or „artificial“ timetrack I do not know. Therefore it is „case“ talk. Interesting to movie plot writers but not for truth seekers.
    If someone wants to increase his awareness of things it is neccessary to increase awareness AND knowledege. If you look at something in present time or past time you do not understand you might be completely wrong with your conclusions. Lets say you make a time travel to a time 500 years ago and you have your i-pad with you. You show your pad to a guy there. He sees the pad and can feel it, look at the display and do whatever he wants to do with that pad. I guess for this guy this pad will be described in his book as „magic mirror“. He simply could not grasp modern electronics and thus explains what he did see.
    Same with people that tell „OT stories“. Those telling these stories are like the guy you presented an i-pad. He has no clou what he is looking at. Thus, his story and conclusions are not more than the explanation of the „magic mirror“.
    Thus knowledge is far more important than awareness. And that does take lots of study, evaluation and then observation. If you did not observe it yourself (like those writings of the link you provided) those data are useless. Did you ever wonder how many read really good books about increasing awareness and real knowledge about life but the life of those reading these books does not change? For them those informations are useless. Like the infos from that link. Cannot be evaluated against my observation in present time and does not as-is past life charge form my timetrack. Waste of time to read.

  172. A little additional “proof” of past life Scn was when on my first internship, I could not for the life of me get the instant reads bulletin straight. I kept saying it should say something else very specific and I was adamant about it. Well, my astute intern supervisor, older than me and longer trained, pulled out some old tech vols and showed me exactly what I was quoting…the HCOB had been changed. Oh, okay – problem solved. She wasn’t surprised one bit by it. Nor was I actually. From that point forward, I held this as a possibility when I exhausted all others, like misunderstoods, false data, etc.

  173. 2. a) How come we don’t see many second lifetime Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?

    I have run into lots of second lifetime Scientologists. As far as I know, for a number of years David Miscavige has led the charge on invalidating past-life Scientologists and past-life Clears as well.

    Second-lifetime Scientologists do not come forward making themselves known with irrefutable evidence of past identity because there is no program or mechanism to do this in the Church, although LRH did suggest one in the 1950s. He was planning to write a companion book to “Have You Lived Before This Life?” called I believe, “Where Are You Buried?” He also spoke in the PDC lectures about documenting gravestones, death certificates and so forth. I wanted to do some of this myself and did do it. It was a flabbergasting experience.

    Here is a problem: If you wanted to document your past life, you’d have to pay for your own auditing to do so — prohibitively expensive in the CoS. The Bridge is not really designed to take up or deal with much of this. Does a person get help from a C/S? Would an auditor be involved?

    Ultimately past-life identities are a means to an end. What matters most is who you ARE (not who you WERE). But in Scientology, the “way out is the way through,” so we sort through the confusion of past life identities in order to better understand our potential and gain higher control over who we are in present time.

    So probably my main answer to this question (2a) is it comes down to
    * no mechanism or program in place within the Church to handle this,
    * the barrier of money, which puts all the onus on the individual.

    b) Do you feel an obligation to educate those (or otherwise release them) who believe in afterlife tragedies like implant stations, or hell, so as to free them from delusion and the anxiety that might accompany it?

    Yes, and I’ve been doing that since I got into Scientology in 1979. It’s the motivation behind everything I’ve done — why I joined staff, why I left staff, and my accomplishments as an Indie.

    I say there is a great deal of evidence for Earth being a contaminated mess / grave yard / dumping ground where unruly beings are dumped as LRH said in the Tony Hitchman interview, something to the effect of “to find their own way out if they can.” This makes sense to a lot of people who hear they live in a prison colony — “no wonder it’s so crazy, I’m surrounded by 4th dynamic criminals.” But the flip side of that coin is you’re one, too. What’s a 4th dynamic criminal? Maybe it’s a person who won’t help.

    A person will not help on the 4th dynamic is not putting anything there. They are just taking. So they really are a criminal on that dynamic simply by refusing to do anything to help.

    I believe there IS a way out of the trap, and I believe the way out is lamp-posted by the steps of A to E which makes less relevant the conspiracy theory of implanters doing everyone in between lives. I think inherent in those steps are not only the route to recover from the Church of Scientology, but the route to recover from Earth. The upper dynamics are all unlocked through Help, hence if you want another place to go to besides Earth, better get busy helping Earth.

    Possibly people report to implant stations (if they do) because on some level they WANT to forget. Thus knocking out implanters would still not solve the problem of people running away from their problems instead of confronting and working their way through them.

  174. “Interview” probably a hoax, verified.
    Just Google “Lawrence R. Spencer” for more data.

  175. Yes, it is an invalidation. See my earlier response – nobody bothering to look for folders.

  176. Actually Entralled Observer, there are some very perceivable outcomes from some Scientology applications.

    And why do human beings create only ways? A friend of mine once answered this question with quaint simplicity:

    Because some people need an “only way.”

  177. flavp, I agree 100% about the training. It’s 1/2 the Bridge for a reason…

  178. But Plubius, there are thousands if not millions exposed. All unprepared TV and internet exposed.

    Sorry if I have offended you. It is not my intention. Just sharing controversial ideas regarding religion and religious faith.

    It would appear certain that being offended is part and parcel of a subject like religion.

    Hey if we want to really get going lets bring Politics! Yeah baby.

    It’s all good. God bless us all and may the light of love shine in our hearts this Christmas season. That eternal light that upholds the myriad worlds of form and thought. 🙂

  179. Sam, it is extremely evaluative and invalidative to be ignored on that point! And that’s mostly how it happened at upper orgs.

  180. Hey Tony, thanks. No doubt you are correct. And while I do not have sufficient interest/motivation to get auditing at this time, in the future…..? Joe P

  181. I’m a big time consumer Oracle! …..Ha Ha… but you already knew that!

  182. Wow!.. I’ve managed to get myself hauled into court and put on trial by and angry lawyer – I have to say I didn’t see that coming
    Brian you’re absolutely right I can’t prove a word of what I wrote-You have completely exposed me.
    Actually, I don’t believe a word of what I wrote. It’s just a bunch of science fiction nonsense I whipped on Sunday when I had some time on my hands.
    There are no extraordinary electronics in existence or implant stations either and there never have been. I pretended at this whole thing just to try to make it seem like I was in the know.

    My bad on this.

  183. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    I’m on it 🙂 And on tracking down the story of the originator back to Ireland. But it makes for good reading all the same 😀

  184. It was a lecture if I recall correctly. I have a few ideas of where to look and will see what I can find.

  185. Thanks Huck. I made a visit to a hellish place filled with dark magic and when I left some of it stuck to my shoe. The Enthusiastic Sadists Malevolent Bloodthirsty forum.

  186. Jean-François Genest

    If someone reading this blog has the
    HCO Bulletin C/S Series # 123 titled Handling of Past-Life Auditing, it would be nice to see it posted here for reference. It is in the Series red volume.

  187. I actually originated this very thing at Flag about auditing with LRH and doing OT processes etc. I was told I was wrong and there was no such thing by the D of P. I had also originated clear and was told it wasnt possible.
    Nice huh.

  188. Yes, of course palehourse it is. What a wonderful post. She is special….
    And we are lucky to have her around here (us).
    And I’m lucky to see her post. Im very very very lucky.
    Marty opened a can of worms .. yes he did. And who cares. OSA is asleep and getting more sleepy by the minute…..
    Go sleep for 8 hours and remember how nice it is to feel YOU!

  189. Of course, good point. This HCOB lays out the handling in full. But its too long for me to quote here… Marty?

  190. A similar thing happened to me. On the Academy Levels, while reading an LRH book, I bogged in like Chapter 3. Could not find any earlier MU. But I kept thinking about reading the book last lifetime, and having an MU in the end of the book from that time. So I scanned through the last few chapters, found my MU almost right away from the ’50s before I was born, cleared it up and boom — zoomed through the rest of the book with no problems.

  191. Oh, come on! This is the same old dogma. Did you ever consider the idea that the idea of the psychs being implanters could be an implant?
    Every dogma works like an implant, or fixed ideas.

  192. I believe that if I were to try actually running the OT III materials I could quite likely get sick. 1.I amnot Clear, 2.I am not trained to Solo audit. So it could be very out-gradient and harmful to me.

    On the other hand, I’ve heard that LRH himself wrote a sci-fi screenplay along the lines of the “OT III story” which he wanted made into a film. So apparently simply hearing the broad outlines of the story does not necessarily have any ill effects on a person, although perhaps the names might be better changed to avoid restimulation.

    There is obviously no test involved here. There is no way to prove that people not on the Advanced courses, who did obtain and read the actual OT III materials, and tried to track with the auditing commands did or did not get ill or die.

    You’re certainly welcome to make yourself the guinea pig if you wish, as far as I’m concerned. I believe the materials are around somewhere.

    Personally, having experienced some auditing at a lower level, I am aware that there are some powerful energies and masses in the mind, and I’m not curious at all to get in over my head.

    By all means let us know how it goes for you.

  193. Brian, I doubt that “thousands” have been exposed to and have tried to run the OTIII materials on themselves. See my post upstream. Simply reading it as a sci-fi story won’t necessarily make anyone sick.

    You posted this above: “I feel compelled to be in that ever growing catagory of people that dares to communicate the highest Scientological heresy, that this between lives mumbo jumbo is bogus garbage.”

    You feel OK judging the speculations of others as “bogus garbage”? Nice.
    Who is presenting as a condescending elitist here?

    Pot/kettle at best.

  194. Thanks for your answer, KF. I am not suggesting you are “weak minded”. I am simply putting an alternate viewpoint out into the midst that maybe the mind can be influenced in positive ways. Haven’t you had a wacky dream that contained real people from your life? Could it be that past lives are simply the mind presenting you with data in an abstract form that you can use to your benefit and experience relief? Whether one accepts them literally or not doesn’t devalue auditing or its therapeutic value. (LBL therapy is used in psychological and psychiatric circles in a not too dissimilar way). Personally I can see the value of OTIII and the NOTS processes and get why they work without making the leap into alien holocausts and parasitic entities (although I am not necessarily closed to it). If all answers are basically simple, stuff like implant stations just doesn’t seem to align. But that’s just me. Peace.

  195. Rosswell crashed Alien interview.

    Likely written by one of Capt. Bill’s space cadets, since it links to Nazis invading Mars, Sun 12, Planet 7, the Hapsburgs and what not. Very entertaining though. A+ for plagiaristic dub-in. Someone sure went through a ton of work in the hopes making it appear credible.

  196. a) Who operates these stations
    Here on modern day earth, implant stations are not operated by anyone in particular. They are all running on automatic; meaning they are locks on an actual event (engram) which happened a very long time ago. We return to them because they serve us in some way so we continue to use them. An individual keeps a “station” because they have experienced a major invalidation or severe loss many, many years ago. In terms of the basic implant, we are talking magnitude here. It is a highly charged zone. One feels compelled to return to the station because he must stick with what he thinks he knows and clings to that point in time. He is stuck there to a degree. He may feel that the station is a just punishment for the loss which he just had, i.e. a recent body death. Or he may use it to get charged up in another more powerful or sinister valence. He is restimulated at body death (an invalidation of sorts) and returns to one of the biggest invalidations or losses he had. He cannot confront the basic event so he returns to a reference point he thinks he can handle and try again. More locks pile on. In actuality it is extremely difficult to confront the basic implant because the charge is stored much like a capacitor/condenser. There are so many locks and charge at this point. The more one tries to push through the engram, the more one pushes back. Incidentally, capacitors can block direct current (direct observation). Eventually it will break and energy can flow directly but it takes some work and persistence.
    A person can have more than one implant station to return to as they see “fit”. The reason groups of people appears to go through the same station is because they all may have had a big loss and or significant pain together. For example, a group of thetans were all tortured by some bug-eyed aliens unexpectly or several individual thetans happened upon the same nasties over a period of time. It doesn’t matter, an engram is an engram. This explains why there appear to be some more popular implant stations here on Earth. Auschwitz is another example of a past and future implant station. Ground Zero is another example. No one “appears” to operate them anymore; it is the residual charge/energy of the harmed thetans that holds them in place. I think of implant stations as capacitors or condensers in terms of the extremely dangerous charge they hold. I think I want to walk “gingerly” around them rather than confront them which, of course, is detrimental.
    b) Are they represented on earth, and if so in what form?

    Yes they are represented on Earth as a form of “theta” charge residue areas. They sometimes appear as physical places because of the known history of the area and obvious signs of destruction/torture, etc. The older implant stations may be harder to locate physically because of historical records, etc. but you can actually feel these “theta” charge residue areas when you come across them. It is powerful. Again Ground Zero is a good example. Just walk around there for a few minutes… It may not be your own direct implant station but you can sense the enturbulation there and there may be something oddly familiar to you….

    c) Do you feel an obligation to educate or prepare your fellow beings on earth about them, or to otherwise do something about their operators?

    In terms of preparing fellow beings I guess I do feel an obligation because I am sharing my knowledge; however this is my experience and opinion and I believe that one should come to their own conclusions.

    In terms of the “operators” of these stations, I know that I am the operator of my own “current” implant stations. Of course, I could blame someone or something for giving me the original implant in the first place, but what is the point of doing that some many years (or millions of years) after the fact? I need to deal with the pain/invalidation I received at that time and stop keeping the station in place. We (auditor and me) have to find and run out the implant/engram. So the key (assuming we don’t wish to continue to experience various implants in our continued existence) is to remove all of them and to remove them as they arise. I think much mystery and complexity has been added to the subject of “implants” but really they are engrams and we have a simple tech for handling them.

    Good auditing can do a great job at this but I believe ANY invalidation during Bridge progress is dangerous as it restimulates any or all the implants (engrams) and reinforces them. In my view, there should be a no interference / no arbitrary zone all the way along the Bridge. I also think a key success factor is to go as fast as you can (without quickies of course) and keep at it for as long as you can. There are too many “locks” being imposed in our current world situation.

    Bad auditing, out tech or altered tech (and admin) the likes we have seen since DM’s “meddling” (to put it mildly) only places additional locks on our implants and really snarls things up. It gives us the perfect excuse to go back to “what we know” and hide in our misery (implants). That makes for a really, really, nasty trap. (Perhaps that explains why past-life Scientologists might be reluctant to identify themselves, especially in the last 20 or so years – they can smell rats…). I believe we have the technology to overcome this and that the Independent route may be the only route out.

  197. I get from your communications that you have had little or no auditing.That’s fine, nothing wrong with that,-DM priced it that way so it was out of reach for most people.

    After having been audited for some time I can tell you the comparison between dreams and past life recall is the same difference as the horse and buggy and a U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor in terms of speed. There is no mistaking the two.

    The “alien and parasitic” you mention were our neighbors, friends, co-workers, they were bakers, cab drivers, accountants, painters,’ singers,’ school teachers, farmers, pilots and soldiers. They were to you and me then just what the individuals we see everyday are to us now.

    All answers may be basically simple but if you are here on earth shoved ten different ways into a body and on a recycle loop straight back here after you lose your current body then wouldn’t you say that the population here is unimaginably far away from having any answers?

  198. Valkov, I ran the OT 3 materials for weeks and weeks. I paid about 10 cents for Ron’s hand written copy in 1981/82.

    I never completed the grades, I was natural clear, never did OT 1 or 2

    I have friends that did the same.

    Guinea pig at your service:-)

  199. That a fully exterior being would get himself invovleved in a get rich quick scheme in the MEST is super funny.

  200. K- I didn’t mean to be rude, but let’s face it, you made some very bold claims. All I would like is a little back up to what you are saying. No need to be sarcastic, but lets get real.

    If you believe in implant stations, great. I would never hold that against you. But when you start saying these things are actually real, I want just a little proof.

    For me, spirituality, is about dealing with reality, the present, and truth. I didn’t mean to come across harsh — but I think you should back up these statements!

    You said you wanted to hold me to my statements, can’t I hold you to yours?

  201. Happy Girl, I really enjoyed your post. It is a close to my own experience and understanding of the between lives area as you could possibly expect. I will add that they real trouble with these types of things is that we think in the back of our minds that we have survived these things previously so they oddly enough become survival mechanisms to us. If you ahve just died in this life survial is a hot issue with you and the impants really kick in pretty easily. It’s crazy but ingeniious at the same time. It’s the same reaction you see now concerning possible nucleur war. We’ve survived them before so it’s all good. Once again, it is definitley crazy but that’s life here on the Big Dirtball. .

  202. Not entirely. An OT with full ext etc. might want to make this planet a saner place and accumulate great wealth in order to facilitate that.

  203. I think being Clear helped you survive. I would not be so confident about myself getting through such an experience, since I doubt I am Clear or anywhere near it.

    So, you can speak for yourself, but does your experience generalize to others? I do not believe so. Individuals are individual. Or, as the old Hawaiians used to say, “One man’s meat is another man’s poi, son.”

  204. Hey Brian, I appreciate your reaching out.

    To keep it short, I cannot back up anything I stated nor offer any physical proof. I simple shared what I believe after consulting my own time track through auditing, training and just observing phenomena that is readily available to observe
    I don’t blame you for not believing in implant stations-they are unbelievable. Really …just that…. they are not believable. Who would want to conceive of the existence and activities of such things? What a terrific camouflage they have built right in-they are unreal.
    I don’t know how much auditing you have had but things like this will fall into your lap when you personally encounter it in a session. It will become real to you when and if you ever cross paths with it and the auditor invites you to take a look.

    No hard feelings….. I’m all good with this and thanks again.

  205. I’m not comparing dreams to auditing. My point is that dreams are simply another example of the mind presenting us with data based on what seemingly influences us. Clearly you missed the link. My advice? Read more. Scientology has a workability whether you have religious beliefs or not. You choose to accept Hubbard’s space opera explanation for why certain processes work where as I do not (not always at least). That is essentially what we’re discussing here. Believe what you will. As a Scientologist I have no time for faith.

  206. Or, such an OT may not have the best motives. Can we truly assume that someone fully OT must always be the most ethical/moral example? Might not such a thetan be equally able to be selfish and opportunistic?

  207. These are very bold surveys and I hope to see more get posted. I haven’t had any auditing so unfortunately I cannot participate, but I have really been enjoying reading the responses. I am hoping the survey results will appear somewhere on, which BTW, is possibly one of my all-time favorite web designs!

  208. Ralph, I have really enjoyed your posts. I don’t know where you are on the bridge but I have a good feeling about your wisdom in these matters. However I stand by my conclusion that a being that was really exterior would have a hard time getting serious about making money or assisting much in the affairs of mankind. In the incident I was talking about I definitley had the desire to protect my family but I had no clue how I was going to do it. I mostly wanted to live up to the promises I had made to them prior to leaving the body.

  209. Anyone who is quite sure there never was any such thing as an implant station really ought to read a basic classic text about Hypnotism, such as George Estabrooks thorough introduction to the subject, titled “Hypnotism”.

    As you read it, keep in mind that what hypnotism is all about is the implantation of “post-hypnotic suggestions” into the mind of the subject, below his level of awareness. How are these made to be “below his level of awareness”? The trick is to install(implant) a command to “forget” the suggestion implanted. A person can be hypnotized, fed a suggestion, be told to forget it, then also be told he will forget he was hypnotized and that when he wakes up, he will believe that he cannot be hypnotized and that “hypnotism is a bunch of baloney”. No-one else will be able to put him in a trance, but the original hypnotist will easily do it again because he will have installed a command short-cut for throwing the person into a trance again.

    LRH actually outlined all this in DMSMH. It IS how hypnotism works. An “implant ” in scientology is basically an incident of heavy hypnotism often involving drugs as well as force, such as electronics.

    Interestingly enough, when I worked at a teaching hospital in the 1960s/1970s, I found that psychiatric residents (Doctors to be completing their training) were acquainted with some training in hypnotism, but it was virtually never mentioned “in public”, even to psychiatric staff working in that hospital.

    “Manchurian candidate” scenarios are not impossible, as George Estabrooks explains in his book. He has a chapter about military and intelligence uses of hypnotism. And this book was written and published over 60 years ago.

  210. Thanks Conan. I very much appreciate you taking the trouble to let me know where that is, I am going to find the tapes.

  211. Hi Marty,
    HK’s answers:
    A) SP
    B) Symbols
    C) Yes, to some degree. Figure this responsibility will increase as I progress up the Bridge and my knowledge and understanding of them also increases.
    SK’s answers:
    A) SPs who continue their determination to keep man stupid, filled with lies and with lessened ability so as to remain trapped and unaware that they in fact are in this state.
    Implant stations on the track are real to me and most often they had the appearance of being interesting or alluring so as to trick or lead the being to them.
    The loss of memory implant is pretty real — so people do no remember their past lives — and it is easily observed as it keys in on an individuals when they are old and nearing death.
    B. I am uncertain about this. I reckon after leaving the body there is something that directs you or your attention to them so they can do their “magic”. Some people mention a white light and “following the white light” obviously in hopes of a heaven….
    C. Not fully at this time as I have only my reality, which is true to me and I use this knowledge as my own strength in confronting implant situations, but if it is not real to others then it will not help them. I guess this comes down to case state. I personally feel pretty stable and I imagine the further up one goes the more knowledge, reality and confront they will gain for themselves.

  212. I’m not so sure anymore that Hubbard was dead-on about his assumptions. Sure, reincarnation is most probably very true based on all the evidence that are available (out of body experiences, white bright tunnel, meeting relatives, children 2-5 years of age with memories from past lives that can be controlled, even the sceptic Carl Sagan found that fascinating), but what happens when you die? Most probably you go to some kind of in-between-place but I don’t know about implanting ever time. Based on different sources I’ve read it could be that we have to “behave” and might get punished by ending up here on earth. Other sources speak of other worlds, like waterworlds or worlds with flying creatures that do remember their past lives, so perhaps we don’t remember our past lives as a punishment?

    Too many auditing sessions reveal implants so it’s probably true, but not necessarily between every lifetime.

  213. Michael Newton (non -Scientologist) has specialized in between-lives-sessions and talk about some kind of committee that goes through every decision you’ve made during a lifetime in great detail. So be careful about what you do. 🙂

  214. As you state yourself: you did not do grades and power level of pre-OT, so doesn’t looks to me strange that you could not reach the freedom attached with OT III, and even went deeper in the implant directives making think the being false realities, at so at least hardly makes you in good position to generalize your experience, even if I well understand that is your reality now and that you had perfectly the right to express it; like I others have the one to react on or present other facts and realities, like the many examples of yong scientologists already witnessing in private or session of their past LT State of Clear or professional past life training, that can only explains their very early skills and aptitudes in the present life (like the 11 years old Book One auditor in Kazakhstan already mentioned above).

  215. Your suppose to speak for yourself, right? Didn’t you notice how much you tend to generalize your reality ?

  216. Thanks for having witnessed of your own reality, Patricia.

  217. As I could understand, one of the traps but makes common games possible, is that when A says that “something is there” and B, because of any kind of faith in A, starts to create that same “something there”.

    But could be that is not that much important, and what would be much more could be: what the being is wining as freedom, abilities and happiness, so how we take we subjective reality we experience could be less important than the results.

  218. yes Valkov, there were many friends who did the OT materials in that manner. Not just me.

  219. You need to be interviewed!

    I appreciate people who are real believers, to think really long range future, and who are free and easy and who think logically about it, within the confines of what LRH actually wrote, literally.

    I’ve so wished that somehow ALL of LRH’s full final years private writings, could be made public to people like you Ralph, who could think with all that he said.

    I so wish that the INCOMM staffer who almost leaked a whole major bunch of final traffic from LRH, that he had actually leaked it out. But he decided against the big leak, so likely, not unless another person from LRH’s Archives (CST, my unreal dream, would be for someone like Shelly Miscavige, who if she’s at the CST site nearest the Int Base like John Brousseau says, then Shelly, if she somehow realized how important it was to get LRH’s full “corpus” out into the public domain, she is probably in a position to leak the whole durned LRH corpus!)

    Not likely, but I’m sure you’d go through LRH’s final years writings with a fine toothed comb Ralph, and I’d like to hear your take on all that, if you ever get that opportunity.

  220. Got it flavp. Didn’t feel judged. Thanks

    I’ve gone beyond underwear! I’m on the next level,” I’m out there Jerry and luvin it!” Seinfeld episode 😉

  221. Hello Brian. Thank you for your post and comment re the survival mechanisms. I agree.

  222. How come we don’t see many second life Scientologists making themselves known, with irrefutable evidence of past identity?

    Because the assumption in Book 1 that auditing improves recall may apply for homo sapiens, the one life body-thetan combination. But not for a thetan.
    If a thetan progresses upscale, he doesn’t progress towards better recall, but towards higher knowingness, which is an entirely different thing.

    Why would a healthy thetan carry around pictures from the past? And what is a past identity other than just a set of pictures?
    If someone tells you he was a Scientologist in his former life, you could ask “What went wrong? Didn’t you receive the proper auditing in that life?” or “What makes this past identity so valuable to you that you’re still carrying these pictures around and stick to them?”

    We don’t need an explanation for a lack of recall, since it is the thing we actually try to achieve.

    Do you feel an obligation to educate those who believe in implant stations or hell?

    Not in particular. People who believe in hell or inplant stations must have good reasons to do so.

  223. I don’t know why anyone would suggest that there are so few previous life Scientologists around. I know several and I know others who do as well so it’s no secret.

    As far as past lives go the whole subject is only fascinating to those who can’t remember them. For those of us who can it is no big deal. Once you realize that you were always YOU you should be kind of flat on the subject.

    Those of us who can remember also know when some new ager is lying or confused about their own past life experiences. It can truly make you wince to hear some of the wog world past life stuff.

  224. The question of this post is not about “previous live Scientologists”.
    It is not about people who “rememer a past life.”
    It is about “second life Scientologists, WITH irrefutable evidence of past identity.”
    That means for example a person who says “I am a past life OTIII, I died in the year 1980, I was on lines at Flag, and my name was John Jones. Could you please get my folder, so I can continue on my OTIV?”
    And if then at Flag a folder is found from a person named John Jones who reached OTIII and died in 1980, then we’re talking.
    I don’t think this happens as regularly as could be expected, according to the concept of afterlife that many Scientologists have.

  225. Hank, in my experience it happens often enough that it shouldn’t be a reason for concern. The other thing is there may not be enough people high enough on the bridge and familiar enough with the subject of knowingly returning in the next life to make the numbers huge and I suspect outside of close friends and family most people who are former life Scientoligists keep it to themselves. It is after all case.

  226. Actually, EO, the “scientology” we are talking about here is not the “theory” at all, it is is the “practice”, or what I call the “practical applications”. What most people call “the tech”. It is the “doing” of it, not the “thinking about” of it.

    It is very obvious you have never actually “done” any of it, as a preclear or as an auditor.

  227. There is a difference between “science” and “technology”. LRH set out to develop a technology for handling the bank, as you say, to provide relief. And did so. He also went beyond that, to develop technologies for increasing abilities.

    LRH set out to create some workable technologies, and did so. That’s really all I care about – does the vehicle run, and will it take me in the directions I want to go in?

    Academic “scientific” proofs, well, they’re for academics. Do you demand a scientific proof of the pudding before you eat it? (There is a type of person who will do just that kind of thing. I’ve met a few.)

  228. EnthralledObserver

    Whilst you may think that the obviousness of my having ‘never actually ‘done’ any of it’ is valid, my opinion is just the opposite: I am free from influence of ‘the tech’ (and LRH theory). I wouldn’t ‘do’ any of it if you paid me, because I believe you are mucking about with processes that might potentially damage you, as you are dealing with techniques that have never been tested independently to discover precisely what ‘results’ they really deliver.
    I don’t need convincing, because I’m not yearning for self-improvement, I’m quite content with who I am. I can choose to change my circumstances, or not… just as I am, without making me ‘more able’. But you are messing about with your mind using unproven techniques… if I were you I’d be wanting reassurance that what is producing those ‘wins’ isn’t concurrently causing surreptitious damage. It’s quite on the cards… and that’s what I’m saying… What if L Ron Hubbard WAS wrong? He was just a man, he could easily be so. Why would anyone believe HIM without any proof – that’s madness in my opinion.

  229. Happy Girl, Where are you at on the bridge if you don’t mind my asking. Your original post was realy stated well. I was impressed.

  230. There is no one outside of Scientologyt that is qualified to authoritatively comment on LRH’s work. The discoveries are LRH’s and anyone commenting on them who is not trained in the subject is about the worst case of the blind leading the blind I ever heard of.

  231. The only data I have is on 2a as I am a returning Scientologist. As to why I don’t jump up and down and announce it, I will say that when it first came up in session, I was very reluctant to divulge it as I assumed that the auditor would not believe it or that it would make me look bad. However all of the auditors who came across incidents from that life in Scn (or Dn). After it came up a number of additional times (in different incidents) I fully accepted it as fact. In one case I was doing a sec check and the auditor went E/S on the withhold and asked you missed it and the answer was “LRH”. Another time it was “Mary Sue”. I went clear on the 5th of June 1952 in Witchita. Again, I did not “assert” this. This is what came up as the answer in to the reading Question on a list “Have you gone Dn Clear”. As any of you that has been audited by a decent auditor knows, any auditor worthy of the title can get an answer to an auditing question. And in this case, it did no F/N it F/TAed. Do I have physical proof? No, but you can ask Steve Hall, who FESed my folders right after that in his office. He suddenly started laughing and I asked him what was so funny. He replied that after the question and my answer, the auditor wrote in the worksheets “Bye, Bye, blown away. F/TA. I can tell you who I was. I have only told one or two of my close friends. As the name is known to most people in Scn, and I met LRH many times, this is all I will say for now. If you want further information, you can ask. As far as to who was running the implant stations, I can give you the this lifetime name of a person who implanted me. This person was a staff member at Flag. I recalled knowing her in 1980 (in session) . In 2005 I happened to be talking to her on the phone when she stated talking about what we were doing in the 50’s. She also went clear, claimed to have been audited by LRH.

  232. Pingback: Does Scientology Work? | Moving On Up a Little Higher

  233. Brian,
    You asked a very good question. This is a matter I have considered for some time in this “body” lifetime. To give you some background, I know I have always lived and will continue to live as a thetan (as currently defined in Scientology) or simply “a spiritual being”. I just know that. Bodies, minds, “past lives” have been rollicking parts of my existence, but they are a mere pimple on an elephant’s ass so to speak. I am not really that interested in them nor do I dwell, feel compelled to be proud of, or hang on to them. I feel they are mere distractions and sometimes annoyances. I feel I created them for kicks or something to do or “survival” or whatever or allowed myself to get into a potental situation for some extreme randomness :-). In actuality I am more concerned with the quality and quantity of the present and future for all spiritual beings. What I have experienced these past trillions of years has helped me to know who I am. I am confident in my native abilities. In this lifetime I have always felt slightly overrun by auditing (having had to start from square one). I should have spoken up but was concerned about how I would be handled. I felt strongly about that and knew something was amiss in the CoS. My research then and since has proven that I was correct in my estimation. Getting out was a good choice for me as I actually felt “smaller” being a public in the CoS (due to all the nonsense described on this site which, incidentally, I was not aware of until after I made that choice). Personally, I feel that the creation of the CoS in the first place created an arbitrary. Unfortunately, this has hindered the delivery of the wonderful tech available to help all beings to be more aware of who they are or rehab so to speak. In terms of today’s “Bridge”, I don’t know exactly where I should be placed. It doesn’t matter. I am learning more about who I am each day and I continue to help my fellow beings. Perhaps not always in a manner which can be easily seen by most , but I am here and I am helping. That is my purpose on a basic level. I will get back in the chair again soon with an independent I can trust. Thanks again for your question. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on your beingness too if you’d like to share.

  234. Richard,
    I duplicate you. They are wrong. I luckily did have an auditor who simlply was able to pick up and complete a process I ran. Don’t want to get into case, but don’t want you to be stuck in invalidation. Go with what you know and get an Indie auditor!

  235. Happy Girl,
    I probably need to find a way to send you my email address without putting it on this site. Any ideas of how to go about taht?

  236. Rosalie Hamilton

    1. a) The man I saw and talked to wore a gray uniform. It seems to be Mars. Soon after landing on earth and joining a family this lifetime, I went back there, protesting that I didn’t like Earth, but was re-sent back down and I did as I was told.
    b) I don’t know.
    c) I figured that our doing the OT levels would keep us from revisiting the implant stations after future deaths. Until this question, I had not thought about warning non-Scientologists.
    Due to various people musing that if there are returnees, why don’t they reveal themselves, I’m stepping up. Last lifetime I was the girl (Ron loved the ladies and called us “girls”) on the couch in one of Ron’s conducting Dianetics demonstrations before an audience; you have doubtless seen these pictures. I went Clear, which was validated in a CCRD at Flag in 1989 (No mention was made of searching for folders; I don’t even know if such were kept of those demonstration sessions), and ten years later, when DM’s regime of suppression had become Policy, my Clear status uncertified and invalidated. Shortly after my session with LRH I was murdered. All three incidents – being audited, being murdered, and my experience at the between lives station, have been validated on the meter many times, including this year.
    Also, I’m going to repeat what I said at the end of my answer to the first survey: If someone were to ask me what I believe about the afterlife, I would say, “Nothing. I go by what I know, and belief or faith is not necessary. I have lived lifetimes before this one, ergo, I will live lifetimes after this one.” I may not recall which meat and cheese were on my sandwich last Tuesday, but I don’t have to have faith that I had lunch (or go back and see or show someone else the dirty plate and potato chip crumbs); I ate it.

  237. Sorry, that HCOB was 29 July1963, ‘Scientology Review’.

  238. 1a There seem to be several organizations operating them. These are different for the stations on Venus, Mars, a possible station near the moon, and some in deep space. I’m leaving out some detail because of factors involved in my response to c. I need good, clean data on this, not some wiseguy hoaxer.
    b There are some analog/satellite/infiltrated/influenced organizations on Earth. It used to be the Catholic Church, but not so much since the Protestant Reformation. Lately, it seemed to be elements within the Communist Party of the U.S.S.R., but this has not seemed to be the case since the implanters lost a “body in pawn” station. The occasional enemy alien infiltrator shows up now and then urging shock treatment, psychosurgery, and creation and use of new implant machines, but these types are mainly defeated by modern techniques of approval for medical devices.
    c I feel obligated to shut down/destroy such activities, and participate in information gathering and analysis for an organization I joined for this purpose in a different life. Unfortunately I can’t go into operational details because jerks will get data and repeat it, claiming there’s an “interview with an alien” or some such, and it contaminates incoming data with BS.

  239. Happy Girl, Incredible as it may seem long before I was in Scientology I had many seemingly oodbal spiritual experiences. For example, when I was a kid I use to go exterior all of the time and was still doing it under the right circumstances when I got into Scientology. Prior to Scientology I had no real clue what was going on and thought that God was showing me this ability. I talked to my parents, grandparents and to my local priest about it but I didn’t get much in the way of answers and truthfully they didn’t even want to beleive me to begin with. In fact, the more I tried to prove it by going places that they knew I had never been and telling them what was the more adamnant they got about not believing me and finally refused to talk to me on the subject. Years later after studying everyhting I could about that and any related subject I showed up in Scientology. At the time all I knew about Scientology was Dianetics. I had no clue about Scientology or Thetans or anything like that. Imagine how freaked out I was to have gone super exterior in an early session. I was so afriaid to tell the auditor I had gone exterior figuring that he would think I was nuts absolutely panicked knowing that he coudl tell something was going on just by how the meter was behaving. Then, imagine the relief I felt when the Tech Dictionary comes over the top of the meter and the auditor has his finger on the definition of “Exterior” and asks “Is this what you are experineceing?”

    So, while many people first learned of exteriorization in Scientology I was pretty familiar with the subejct so in some ways that helped me since the subejct was already real to me. I didn’t have to learn it. What else helped me was early on I was very motivated to learn things and I studied Ron’s books hard, all of the time. As a result I had lots of cognitions about stuff. Of courrse, in my case, having big wins brought on the SP dogs in a big way and several sets of directors around our org went after me in a big way. They never could get me for anything and I was well aware of what they were up to at all times so I was ready for them but never the less it made things difficult for me. In the end it is all good. As it is it turned out I was right all along and they were in fact suppressive. In fact, as it turns out the whole Church was just as nutty on some levels as I had suspected all along.

  240. Dear Brian,
    I am so sorry for the long comm lag I am not used to these blog sites (I try to avoid this technology where possible :-)) I am the same. I have been exterior all of my life except for a few short periods when I “tried to comply with what everyone else wanted in this life” i.e. to fit in the “normal” box. The subject is very real to me too. I guess I was afraid to share because I thought no one would understand me. I too, had the same experience — all the SP dogs came after me as well. That is when I disappeared (again). I feel so much better being out here on my own. Nice to know there are others here on the planet with me. Thank you so much for sharing!

  241. Happy Girl,

    I’ve really enjoyed meeting you and hearing your story. I wish you well and continued success
    If I ever figure out how to send you my email without putting it out publicly I will do that.

    Best Wishes

  242. There were no between-lives implant stations on Earth. They weren’t needed. There was just social manipulation to control the population such as religion. There were definitely such stations on other planets because thetans were in good enough shape to escape.

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