Some dots are going to be connected here.
The following recent posts come into play and will have some light shed upon them:
Does It Get Any Darker Than This?
Perhaps the best way to put it all together is to recount a conversation.
In the early nineties I was virtually commuting between Washington D.C. and Los Angeles. Between late 91 and late 93 I travelled to Washington on dozens of occasions as part of negotiations with the IRS for the church of Scientology’s tax exempt status.
I had not seen anyone from my mother’s side of the family since the early sixties shortly after my mother had committed suicide. My mother’s sister, my aunt Carol, reached out to see me sometime during that 91-93 period. As there was no such things as vacations or even days off in the church of Scientology at that time, I arranged to see her briefly during a flight layover at Chicago O’Hare airport. We met in an airport lounge.
After exchanging pleasantries and expressions of love, I asked Carol, “my mom received electro shock treatment while I was in her womb, didn’t she?” Carol’s jaw dropped, her face went pale and her eyes welled up. After several seconds, she replied, “how did you find out?”
I told Carol that I had recalled the incident during Dianetics and Scientology auditing. I told her that I was confirming this with her because my father had gone to such great lengths to forget the tragedy of my mother that it had been a tacit policy in the family to never discuss the matter. She knew of the policy and told me that it was one of the reasons she had steered clear from our side of the family for all those years since coming to comfort me and my brothers after the suicide incident when I was five years old. She encouraged me to continue.
After explaining Dianetics and Scientology procedure a bit, I asked her to confirm or deny my specific recollections. I told her that I recalled that my father took my mother to a private mental hospital in the rolling, wooded hills north of our home in Mill Valley, California. It was a beautiful, windy drive through redwood groves that lead toward a pleasant looking compound set upon a big meadowed hill. I described my father’s car accurately in detail, even though the car had been sold shortly after my birth.
Carol was transfixed. She said that every detail I described was completely accurate. She asked me about the experience from my perspective. I told her that I clearly recalled the jolts and the overwhelming pressures and pains. At one point I felt like I was ejected from the body and found myself viewing the procedure from above the operating table. I considered taking off and finding a new body. However, I felt a tremendous amount of empathy for my mother and returned into the body with the intent to help her heal and to protect her.
I told her how we did heal and how despite my mother’s frequent psychotic behavior during the first five years of my life, she somehow managed to treat me with a great deal of love and care. I described a number of incidents and landmarks from those years, all of which Carol confirmed the accuracy of.
Carol expressed sympathy and guilt about the effect all this might have had on me psychologically. Although I hadn’t read Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search For Meaning by then, I described how I always considered the experience a positive in that I knew I had weathered something so violent and overwhelming and survived that there was really nothing I was in fear of confronting. This was particularly true after I had run out the engrams (moments of pain and unconsciousness) associated with the matter.
A couple years later when my father was on his death bed, we had a similar discussion. He, again, confirmed all the details of my recollection. We both reached a meaningful closure of the experience.
All of the details reported in Scientology Inc.’s recently published materials on this subject are recorded in detail in one place and one place alone: my auditing (counseling) folders maintained at Scientology Inc. headquarters. I have discussed the details with nobody beyond my father and aunt except my Scientology auditors (counselors) in minister-penitent privileged auditing sessions in the ‘church’ of Scientology. Not once did any member of the church of Scientology ever write a report about these incidents. Never were any of these details the subject of any ‘ethics’ action, nor were they ever mentioned outside of a minister-penitent privileged auditing session. The matters were not even ever probed by anyone administering auditing. Instead, every detail was freely offered by me, on my own originations during the process of auditing.
The tone and context of Scientology Inc.’s treatment of my early life experience seems to stand for the proposition that a being can be permanently damaged and Scientology is incapable or ineffective in remedying such trauma.
Apparently, David Miscavige wants the world to know that when you are down, you are gonna stay down, Dianetics and Scientology be damned.
I beg to differ.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Pingback: Does Scientology Work? | Martyrathbun09's Blog
There are no words…I’m disgusted beyond belief…
Hi Marty,
thank you for connecting the dots for us. It is a shame that the “church” used data from the priest folders. Another occasion that provokes to shake the head.
Hi Marty,
I had completely forgotten about this until just reading. When I was going through various handlings at Flag a couple years ago one of the staff members (either someone from the Chaplain’s office or Kathy True) told me a very abbreviated version of this, as an attempt to discredit you in some way and to keep me from reading your blog. Not only did I blow it off as it held no bearing on what I thought of you, but it of course opened up even more the gaping hole in their integrity that was becoming more and more evident to me by the day.
Wow. Marty, thank you for being so open (to your own personal lack of privacy) and to exposing the Co$ for what its truly become.
Thank you for that, Marty. These people are completely amoral.
It is obvious that Mr. David Miscavige and those that follow him:
A. Do not believe Scientology works at all.
B. Have zero ethics about the most basic rules of Scientology.
Ergo, David Miscavige is not a Scientologist and is a fraud. AND
Those that defend him are not Scientologists are also frauds.
I am disgusted about this.
Mark Patterson
Miscavige is ruining this for millions of people as no one in their right mind will ever want to receive auditing from them knowing that nothing is sacred. He’s turned something once beautiful to something ugly and to be avoided. Thank God there are independent Auditors out here who can be trusted. Honestly people should be able sue his ass for this gross breach of trust.
Marty, well done. And well said. Bless you and your mother and your whole family.
What a purpose – to help heal and to protect. You are doing exactly that – not just the being who was your mom but all the others in need of healing and protecting.
I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate you sharing such an intimate story. I see that purpose in your every action and now it will be illuminated for me.
This brings me to a thought I had since being in Scn in 1975. I noticed staff and public all had their own motives for being there.. Some wanted to genuinely help, while others saw it as a means to manipulate and control.
Innately I felt there were two sides in Scn, one being red on white which is good, and the other being green on white which I felt to be bad and try to avoid.
Many years later I see the good intentioned ones will look and speak out and the controllers stay to prove they are right. Some are just plain mentally trapped, maybe because their parents sold them on it at a very early age, which makes it part of life reality. I am grateful my 3 sons were never involved. My daughter was a staff member for 6 years and is still somewhat attached to kool aid drinkers, so I have to tread lightly with her.
Marty in one of the best intentioned Scientologists and I am honored to be a part of his blog. We all have a purpose in life and Marty is fulfilling his very well. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this, Mr. Rathbun. I empathize with you on the gross breach of confidentiality… that was my experience with them as well. It’s funny how someone is thinking they “pulled out all the punches” on this one… but really, they’re just digging a deeper hole for themselves. You and I know that Scientology HEALS people and planet. The people in the church are using it (not in a tech sense) to try to hurt and to control. I feel they are already on their own dwindling spiral. More and more people are leaving that organization, every day. I had an old friend reach out to me just last week…. and he is a perfect terminal for others he knows who are fed up. It’s just a matter of time before they implode. I think I’ll keep on adding to the free Theta out here!
An extremely interesting and honest post on so many levels. To reiterate – I am not a Scientologist; I still haven’t worked out the fundamentals of what I think about it, I do agree with what Mr. Rathbun is saying.
I, personally envisage the situation in a non-Scientology sense to be somewhat thus: It’s as though DM is the CEO of the organisation that has invented, patented, and is the sole distributor for a pill that cures (for example) breast cancer. Lives are saved and improved because of this pill. Unhappily I develop breast cancer (as my mum actually did) and my doctor prescribes this life-saving pill. BUT, the CEO’s agents, under direct instruction from DM, deny me access to the pill because I once wrote something cheeky on an internet forum about the CEO.
“But I was only expressing myself…!” I whimper.
“Tough nuts.” comes back the reply. “We’re not ALLOWING you that pill because ‘we’ don’t like you. You’re going to suffer and you have only yourself to blame. Now crawl away and die and think about what you did wrong.”
Any properly-regulated and sensible outfit would say “Hang on a minute – that’s unethical and cruel! Give her the bl**dy pill to make her better!!”
Scientology is a system of beliefs. DM is only one man.*
* (and a small one at that – perhaps he could get a part as an Ewok in the new and upcoming Star Wars film franchise instalments…?) 😉
Mr. Rathbun – your mother and father gave a lasting gift to this planet of ours, in the baby they created, who grew up to write this post. With every such tawdry barb fired at you by DM and his hench-trolls, the true nature of DM is exposed to the world a little more.
Keep going; keep smiling. Even at the most awful of times. Especial peace and love to any friends affected by the heartbreaking events in Newtown, Connecticut. The flag in my heart is at half-mast for the massacre of those innocent babes and their teachers, as well as their families and friends, today. xx
With love,
IEG xx
Thank you Marty for letting a painful part of your life hang in the open for us to see.
This weird Black PR campaign about your mother is originated by DM so I guess DM’s answer to your question if Scientology works is that no, it doesn’t work for him. And he is right, it didn’t do a damn thing for him case-wise except for his life-changing cognition early on that all power is assumed. Otherwise, he is a complete mess. As Lars, commented in one of the resent posts, we are dealing with an SP with out-list. That’s extreme but I am sure Scientology would work on him if he gave it a chance, specifically Power processing, per LRH..
Scientology works much smoother on vast majority of other people who are not such extreme basket cases. Scientology did and is doing complete miracles for me, changed my life, saved my life — all that good stuff that people say in their success stories. Its all true in my case, I couldn’t be more convinced through experience that yes, Scientology works.
One of the things that drives me the most nuts about Scientology is that the organization has so often and for so long just disregarded the benifits of auditing and instead has tried to “improve” people through abusive and brutal ethics actions. I can’t believe how stupid that is.
In your case doesn’t DM realize that if you were actually as messed up as he is claiming now him havng you on staff at the highest levels for all of these years would have been a high crime on his part. What an idiot this guy is. I can’t wait until he’s arrested. Him doing the “perp” walk out io the paddy wagon is going to be one of my happiest moments. He is truly evil. He’s kind of a pretty boy too. They are going to love him in prison.
Obviously those who put that tidbit together don’t believe Scientology works, and consider that any Scino who reads that blurb also consider that Scientology does’t work.
I have long said the Church of Scientology is neither – neither a “church” nor “of Scientology”. Darth Midget evidently thought he could cave you in by sticking you back in that incident and piling on a bunch of Wrong Items and Wrong Indications . This is the very blackest of Black Scientology and for those who think that Miscavige doesn’t know Scientology, think again – I believe that he has taken every single one of Hubbard’s “Thou Shalt Nots” of auditing tech and made them into his Checklist for Caving in a Being.
Marty, I’m glad this vile, sick and twisted effort has failed to affect you as intended. Thanks for relating the true story as I was initially under the impression that Darth Midget had just made up the whole thing.
It is no wonder that you have gained unshakeable certainty in the workability of auditing, regardless of the human failings that plagued Ron Hubbard that so the so-called “critics” constantly harp upon.
God Bless You, Marty!
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
You nailed it once again Marty. I was stunned when I saw the “does it get any darker” post. I didn’t know if it was true or not. But given that Davey meant it to be viewed as the truth, I wondered if he realised that in effect he was announcing to his flock that pre-natal engrams cannot be run out effectively.
The only reason it seems he would ever even care about the tech is the money, and it seems training auditors is too boring and time consuming for him, so IAS has become the new cash cow. But even IF the IAS was legit how are people supposed to believe they are creating all these miracles, auditing the $D if the tech doesn’t work? Gah, it makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
Did you know this story was floating around when you wrote the “fear no evil” post?
I am very sorry to hear your childhood was so hard… as a mother it just seems tragic on so many levels:/
Marty, good for you for putting the truth out there although unnecessary to us who couldn’t care if DM said you’d just landed from Mars. To so many, many people, DM is not an opinion leader and has no authority or altitude. In other words he’s a zero.
DM may have resorted to this latest nastiness because you’ve moved off the beaten path. He can no longer send in the cam-heads. His big problem now is how to get to you. What he doesn’t realize is that he’s so completely & utterly obsessed with you, nothing he does will make you go away in his head.
note to DM: Who’s effect here?
Marty, thank you for sharing. You have my love and respect always! ❤ ❤ ❤
Great question.
Does Scientology work?
During the period from 1977 until about 1983, I experienced a workable technology developed by Ron Hubbard. When properly applied with a
‘light touch’, the auditing system was most pleasant and resulted
in advancement of awareness. The state of clear which I reached in the
late 1970’s was not oversold and the price was reasonable.
In the early 1980’s, prices increased and the OT levels were released.
Having achieved OT8 in 1988, the ‘Church’ embarked upon a new policy.
The new line was that advanced OT levels would not be released due
to the insufficient size of the organization.
Having personally met Mr. Miscavige in 1989, I concluded that a
‘leader’ of his quality could never develop scientology and would
be hindered in its application. I did not think at the time that he
could actually pervert scientology to the degree he has demonstrated.
George M. White
Marty,
Awesome! You have indeed proved to one and all that you had tremendous wins with Dianetics and Scientology. My deepest admiration for your superb ability to recall!!
David Miscavige you are truly one degraded being, and so are the sycophants at the Church of Scientology that are doing your bidding.
Totally repugnant, I’m very happy that I resigned from your evil and insane “Church”.
No – apparently, he elected to post the story in response to my post Fear No Evil.
Great post Marty!
I see the “logic”. You got shock treatment in the womb. Therefore you are an illegal pc and that is why you are “causing trouble”. In so making this point dm also makes the point that Dianetics doesn’t work, what LRH said about running out attempted abortions doesn’t work, Scientology doesn’t work, dm’s organization is incompetent.
Personally I never really agreed with the illegal pc policy. If you had a bunch of independent groups, people could recieve auditing even if they had taken psych drugs or had shock. I have read LRH’s reasoning for labelling some illegal pc’s and prohibiting them from getting audited. In the context of a monopoly it may make sense. I think the system that is being created outside of the RCS is the way to go forward into the future.
Nice win by the way. That recall and confirming it was very cool.
It would be nice if you could take legal action against this but I am not real hopeful anymore in the legal arena against the cult of cabbage.
That’s a remarkable story Marty. Thank you for sharing it. And also for connecting the dots.
And yes, it makes the cult’s behavior even more revolting.
I have an incredible amount of respect and admiration for Marty Rathbun. OSA – how can you, as a feeling human being, not realize that the leadership, compassion, and intelligence of Marty is far superior to that of your church leader. Wake up and confront your actions!!
Marty,
I can’t help but feel that all this has some sort of freeing effect on you. Having been so close to cob, and knowing him so well and having spent years around his mind set, knowing what lengths he will go to to get his way, must have had a negative effect on you. Now, fighting against his will and exposing his crimes and effectively confronting the full “force” of this abberated being, must raise you up and effectivley “de-pts” you. Since ptsness can be handled on a gradient you are getting more and more cause over cob. I am not saying you are pts. I am just making the point that the more you confront and handle him, the higher and freer you get. For some reason your Karma has intertwined with cob and you are terminatedly handling it. I feel honored to watch this thing unfold.
Marty, The emotions are rubbed raw for anyone who has the
slightest degree of empathy and / or compassion for you.
This deviant, this monstrosity passing itself off as a ” COB ”
has no “humanity” in it’s DNA whatsoever! It should be crushed
underfoot without a flinch! It’s remains can then be scraped into
a plastic bag , sealed, then sent to a toxicology lab for thorough
analysis. The findings would be most telling, to say the least!
Thankyou Marty for your post.
It is steller thetans like you we need more of.
Yes,Scientology works
Marty, your courage is inspiring. Miscavige is clearly not a follower of Scientology since he believes the moments of pain you dealt with still can be used to hurt you. (And I am so sorry you had to go through that.) Miscavige was a short, nobody-adolescent, according to what has been written about him. He clearly thought “assuming” power meant kicking sand back at the “big boys” he believed kicked sand at him when he was a “90 pound weakling.” (Borrowing here from old comic book ads.) That’s the essence of Miscavige, terror that he is still that 90-pound scared weakling; terror that the “big boys” are kicking sand in his face. Everything he does is to prove he is not that weakling. You are one of the “big boys,” he is absolutely terrified of you. When you were under his command he could rejoice every day that a “big boy” could be at his mercy. He has no tools to deal with you or the world except those of an adolescent, thus we see awful, childish rages and attacks on you. There is no other plausible explanation for the way he is acting. What else does a crazed adolescent do? We saw a terrible, heart breaking, example of it yesterday, and at Virginia Tech, Columbine, and Tucson before that.
1. Great validation of your fetal memory. Better said, your memory as a thetan / spirit.
2. CoS, Inc. is so out of touch with reality in a day of reality shows. Many things that would have been big scary secrets in the 1950s or later are now like BFD now — there is tons of info now that reassures us that none of us is unique, none of us is completely alone in our experiences.
3. CoS, Inc. has committed an overt by violating the trust of auditing. This will come back to bite them in various ways. (a) Fewer people will go into CoS in the first place if they know that CoS will not protect them and their confidential information; (b) Imagine the impact of anyone who is already in CoS who happens to have had a similar experience — they own “church” has just labeled him/her as irredeemable; (c) get enough cases of violation of “priest-penitent” confidentiality, and the government and the IRS will get interested as it flies in the face of the CoS claim that it is a valid religion.
4. CoS has shown incredible ignorance of statistics and scientific method. Alleging that one report showed a problem on the child is no more solid than saying seven out of 10 dentists agree … when you don’t know how the dentists were selected, and how many total. (Might have been 10 total with 7 being good friends of the product.) Thus CoS will look ignorant in its failure to promote fair, balanced, critical thinking and it will look extremist in its jumping to the worst belief about impact on pregnant women and fetus (of ECT) when there is other evidence that does not support a lasting effect. (Yes, it would qualify as a moment of pain and unconsciousness/engram, but so what? That’s what dianetic auditing claims to address. What if a child had a concussion as a kid? Is he or she permanently damaged?)
5. The idea that something cannot be repaired in the human psyche goes against the core beliefs of Scientology and frankly goes against the humanistic values of the modern world. Yes, the body can have damage that may not be fully repaired (loss of a limb for example). But does that apply to the mind as opposed to the brain? And yes, brain damage can occur but if we start with the assumption that such damage cannot be healed, we pre-emptively rule out the possibility of a positive income. And medical history is replete with stories of remarkable recovery from serious brain injury resulting from stroke, accident, etc.
6. The more important thing to me is that Marty recalled this event. Since doctors generally agree that the fetus cannot record memories, this leads to a validation of one of two things: (a) the fetus can record memories after all; or (b) memory resides not in the body but with the person him/herself (spirit, thetan). (A third possibility of course is that Marty overheard a conversation as a kid but I would discount that in this case. I find Marty’s recollection of “ejecting” from the fetus/mother to be compelling.) Not only that, but as others have commented, Marty is evidently following a deep purpose that has been solid all along — helping ease the pain and suffering of others. I am reasonably certain that from what I have heard about Miscavige, that deep theta purpose is not something DM would understand and it would be something he would want to suppress and invalidate since he (DM) is “cold chrome steel” or whatever. (Who else is cold chrome steel? People who lack empathy for others. Often these are sociopaths, or in Scientology terms, suppressive persons.)
That, as far as I’m aware, is how deadly scourges,diseases
and crippling parasitic outbreaks are contained, not so?
Quarantine the “thing” (isolate from contact with others)
before proceeding with due pathological / toxicology
investigation.
Think I’m joking?
Wow, Marty, great post! It brings to mind the “applied” policy, whether written or not, that a person who has had shock treatment is beyond the help of Scientology, even though that may only be political in nature as “they are already in the psych’s camp,” etc. It is a new datum for me that you ran out the shock treatment, so thank you.
Thanks IEG. Yes, there is a much bigger problem to solve.
Thank you for supporting Marty. He is most definitely worth it
Without him and some friends I would be still sound asleep. Now I’m at least 1/2 awake. Confront of evil is hard!
And some day I can help others. So sad… that’s what we all (‘Church’ guys)came to do.
But … we don’t give up easy. LRH said to us: Only the tigers survive.
Cece
Thank you for sharing your story Marty and sorry to see that something that should be in your folders has been released due to the betrayal of SCN Inc and D.M.
I will only say that alcool never made a stupid looks brighter, and never made a sane out of an insane.
Love, Jacques
Marty – the story unfolding in this blog is extremely moving. You are demonstrating, for those who can see, that the tech of Scientology DOES work, when properly applied. Especially when compared to the Black Scientology being practiced by David Miscavige and his dupes.
As a personal testimony – I started solo auditing on Ned for OTs recently, with the help of some other Indies, moving on the Bridge for the first time in 25 years – and I am still enjoying a profound win I had yesterday in session-
The morning light is clear as a bell, and my future is bright.
I am light-hearted, deep-down.
So, yes – Scientology DOES work, (The real, unadulterated stuff) and it works really well!
Thank you for what you are doing!
Marty Rathbun – David Miscavige: 2-0!
It is clear who will win the game in the end.
Wow…I have to say based on many earlier topics here that this is another important lesson for me as to why showing vulnerability is indeed necessary to living a happy life. It is not about seeking or receiving the accolades or empathy, but about being at cause over even the most vicious and vehement attacks originating from the depths of someone else’s twisted case. Thank you for sharing this very personal account.
Marty, One true test of a thetan is the ability to confront an inconvenient truth. The best way to overcome your own problem is to help someone else solve his. God knows you, and I, and the majority of the people that have risen up from the ashes have done so partly, because we have cared about others and have lived to help them. That is one therapy beyond the reach of David Miscavige and truly, the main reason WHY he has managed to turn the Scientology theater into a tragedy. His right hand soldiers too, driven with the purpose to harm attack and suppress, not to help. The web site featuring this entheta screams it all. And how would they know? Dianetics and Scientology work when your purposes are holy.
Outflow is holy and remunerative. I do not think half our case gain is training, the other half auditing. I think half our case gain is attributed to caring about and helping others. This is evidenced in the nightmare you see in the entity Miscavige. We are all tremendously proud of you. Not because you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Because you can see you have traveled North, not South.
What he doesn’t realize is that he’s so completely & utterly obsessed with you, nothing he does will make you go away in his head.
Too true. Marty is definitely living rent free in DM’s head.
So much love and respect to you, Marty.
Consider it as the last crazy utterances of the dying empire of Miscavige.
Marty I gotta stop wearing a hat because nowadays it’s off to you most of the time. Exposing the truth once again about the “church” and it’s evil emperor DM once again only proves that the cult has a complete disregard for LRH and his Policies and has gone on to become miscavigism. An awful place to be if one wants to be free. Again, thank you for being here and most of all thank you for all you do. As an Auditor I am greatly indebted to you.
Nice analogy IEG.
With your kind permission we could expnad it as well?
Let us say you were prescribed a course of 25 pills, after a long and personal consultation. After the first 2 pills you then went online and critisized the CEO.
He then refused to suppy the balance of the course of pills AND published his notes on your pesonal consultation.
Holy crap!
🙂
Marty, since you mentioned Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search For Meaning and taking the positive side of this: the thing that brought me to your blog, and not only me, is http://www.freedommag.org. The story they put about your background and the reference to medical/psychiatric “facts” of how psychotic disorders runs in the family is a two-edged sword. Any scientologist can imediately spot the lies there. I think Freedom Mag is a very good starting point for an incorporated scientologist to open his eyes about what’s going on up lines. I just hope that OSA will not put that site down realizing what it does…
While many seem to concentrate on the negatives, especially within the current regime of DM, your post today was a totally welcome relief from the usual right and wrong playbook. The title of your post Marty and eloquence and sincerity of your clarity of what happened to both you and your mother are nothing short of wonderful.
Scientology does emphatically work: When of course done properly and in the right hands. One also, in receiving such technology, has to be in the right frame of mind to be able to achieve such gains and perceptions as you detail so lovingly. (Most on the outside – and lo, quite a few inside as well – have nothing to compare the incredibleness of SCN, both in and for their lives. And so they berate, make less of or simply just leave. A man cannot have what he cannot or won’t see. A sad commentary on the state of man in his current evolution…)
My own track in Scientology, though I did little in the DM era, was filled with wonderment and exultation at not only the technical prowess and ability of L Ron Hubbard (not only as my auditor, CS and close friend, but as a brilliant soul who could craft this incredible vehicle for the emancipation of man), but also, strangely enough, to my own character and understanding: wherein I could truly and most fully avail myself of the wins and success’ inherent in the subject (such as exteriorization as you describe and much much more).
Sadly, I felt, and still do, that most people don’t really get the enormity of LRH’s tech and the wins that can and should be commonplace within it.
My hope is that someday more will. Despite what the little henchman attempts to do with the subject, all he is doing is building more and more force and MEST (literally) out of the ideas of truth. All one has to do is dispel that force with one’s own integrity and one’s own ideas of truth; it’s as simple as that!
Great post and lead up to it Marty! 🙂
“I always considered the experience a positive in that I knew I had weathered something so violent and overwhelming and survived that there was really nothing I was in fear of confronting”
This is a rare ability Marty.
The ability to make something entheta in theta.
This is what you are doing constantly and we are really impressed by this ability of yours.
Thanks for your courage and persistence.
Is really true: Nothing You Fear to Confront!
I was thinking just this morning how this dribble about your Mom, etc. was a complete and utter invalidation of the tech. But what else is new from the Medal of the Vulture Cultrue winner?
FYI #1: I can tell you that in present time FSO staff are STILL being briefed that you are still the “why” for any non optimum situations in Orgs.
FYI #2: Drove by Clearwater’s Winter Wonderland last night around 8PM. It was fully set up with music playing. There was not a single soul to be seen anywhere need it.
Thank you Marty for allowing us to share these confidences. It is highly enlightening to say the least.
Interesting how he now has to put things in writing to ‘get’ your attention, rather than surveille you in your previous abode. It drops him straight into the mess he is creating a little more effectively. He puts himself on the public record. He digs more of his grave.
If I understand this character a little more, it is not about what role you played earlier in the organization. It is an impulse to harm or destroy. You are DANGEROUS and he needs to nullify this danger anyway he can. He does this without the slightest regard for the repute of Scientology or LRH. it is about him, from his psychotic perspective. “Gotta get rid of these SPs, these incompetents, these FBI agents behind the bush.” “Stop, stop, stop” is his refrain.
We have unfortunately inherited a wanker of the highest order in charge of the church. An untrained incompetent. An unaudited pre-pre-clear. Amazing indeed.
Strength to you Marty.
We love you Mr Rathbun.
What a revelation Marty! Thank you for connecting the dots.
Linda
Great to know. You now have a new angle to his demise. You can draw him out. You can tag him along. You can gain a response. His response will cause more like me to ponder this insanity.
Our largest source of Independents is those who are somehow linked to the church, still. They start to look and see this interchange and slowly move over. Kicked and prodded along by Miscavige.
His actions reverse on himself. His programs reverse on the field. Whatever he accusses others of, he in fact does.
Sorry they have stooped this low Marty but as you say, you turned a negative that you had no control over, into a positive and we are all the beneficiaries of the good work that you are doing.
This just says in my opinion that DM is continuously afraid of you and is trying anything he can to discredit you to the public and staff still trapped inside Scientology.
What he doesn’t understand is that the truth is not on his side and the truth will set you free.
So true breppen.
“Thank God there are independent Auditors out here who can be trusted.”
A repair of this terrible image has started with Independents and the Steve sites. After the demise of the little one, an earnest effort will occur to further repair this image and repute and a new era will emerge. I feel it in my bones! 🙂
Two very different viewpoints of the same story.
DM’s contains hopelessness, ruin, scandal, rumor, betrayal and death
Marty’s contains love,concern, growth, family,healing and life.
Priest–penitent privilege – how can you claim such when you publish on the Internet, privileged information gotten in session by an ordained minister?
More proof that David Miscavige & Co. have systematically moved the Church of Scientology away from being a religion, into being nothing more than a greedy, money-grubbing corporation. (And a corporation, I might add, that would NEVER make it in the real corporate world.)
Yes, yes, yes. Merry Christmas!
#365 but Steve re-arranged the list.
So who knows. Only the persons of ‘Who Ville’ know for sure.
But I think I will keep my wins right here.
And when Marty calls for help, I will be right there on that next plane. Thank you Marty for sharing your story.
You are a wonderful writer by the way.
Cece
You can tell who Scientology (Miscavige and OSA) fears, by who Scientology smears!.
As the CO$ has again breached ministerial confidentiality, a law suit is very much in order. As there are a large number of people who have suffered the same attack by “Darth Midget” (love that moniker), perhaps a class action suit is in order??
Does anybody know if violating priest-penitent confidentiality like this is illegal?
Personally I think that Sec-Checks and anything on the meter with an “auditor” should be held confidential. If the Meter is a “religious artifact”, and auditors are spiritual ministers and you are practicing a religion I don;t give a shit if you say “I am not auditing you” before you start the session. Something has always seemed off to me about that. It seems squirrely to me.
Well for, Christmas just send him a bit more rum. How about 2 cases. That may give us all a break till Jan 15th or so…
Happy Holidays my friends.
Cece
Miscavige put out this information as evidence that Marty is damaged goods and beyond help. Marty puts it out as evidence that Dianetics really works as advertised. Even disregarding the slimy out-ethics of divulging someone else’s session data, it should be obvious to anyone which one of these beings is trying to improve conditions.
Months ago I would have been absolutely astounded, but now with much awareness of the demon miscavige, all I can say is – well done to Marty for putting the light of day on this and other data points. Marty you are an incredible being – and auditing DOES work!
Bruce
Thank you for sharing this intimate part of your life. I thought the prior stuff was made up and of course now I am even more disgusted that the only place DM&Co could have gotten it was from your privileged file.
No, DM&Co do not think the tech works, at least not for more than using to restimulate and ruin people to get the almighty dollar out of them. And that’s NOT what LRH ever envisioned for the tech, in fact, totally in opposite.
Me, I KNOW the tech works and I thank you for having this place to meet with like-minded beings to keep it that way!
Thank you for connecting the dots with your very private recount, Marty, it is patently obvious that David Miscavige does not consider that Scn works.
Dramatizations of this fact are resonated very loudly on the web, before this latest escapade of publishing priest/penitent confidential information, in Miscavige’s actions of:
1. Redos of grade chart actions such as Objectives, Dianetics run on Clears and above which is very common place now and run on hundreds and thousands.
2. Ordering the RPF be done 3 times on SO members.
3. Creating and maintaining the Hole, a totally barbaric, abusive, inhumane and unusual solution to existing Scn correction actions.
4. Mutinous actions to all his seniors in Scn to wrest power for himself, considering the majority of SO and staff members as suppressives, along with physical abuse as a normal action among others.
The DM classic footbullet has evolved to footnuke and now “nutshot” indeed!
Thanks Cece and GoW – keep fighting the good fight. As you so rightly say, IT IS WORTH IT.
IEG xx
Marty,
DM’s antisocial actions are self-evident he is one of the EVILEST of the 2 & 1/2 % who are truly dangerous. “Criminal acts are perpetrated by antisocial personalities”, LRH.
David Miscavage, we have detected & isolated you, we know who you are.
Nothing you do can harm Marty!
Unlike you he has many friends, and we will protect him (& Mosey)…. just know that you miserable, terrified, pathetic dwarf of a man.
Your fixation of Marty is doing wonders to get your minions to wake- up! Look around, your entourage is waning and your days of reigning as Pope-on-a-box are numbered.
And that’s your motivation-you’re terrified of Marty.
So, continue on, dig yourself into deeper insanity, we can’t wait for you to be gone.
But, despite all your efforts to keep Marty down, all your doing is your undoing-slowly, but ever-so-methodically you’re going insane
Does anybody know if violating priest-penitent confidentiality like this is illegal?
Dunno, Chris, but at the bare minimum, publishing the details of things which have been said by a parishioner within the confines of a confidential, priest/penitent confessional, should be grounds to revoke the church’s 501-3C tax exempt status.
I will tell you this, Chris. The moment I close the door with the parishioner inside, EVERYTHING is completely confidential. If I feel the need to share something to handle a situation, I request of the parishoner the right to so share, with no consequences if he/she does not grant me that right. And I mean NO consequences and no disclosure.
The callous disregard for priest/penetent privilege by Co$ is tantamount to fraud. Use of information by others for nefarious purposes is invasion of privacy as well as betrayal of trust. The day is coming when courts will try and jurys will determine just what that betrayal is worth.
CoolHand, In all probability it was Kathy True who was on the front line at Flag denigrating Marty at every opportunity. I know from first hand experience that whenever I spoke to her, which was a little as possible, she repeatedly would overstep her reach in invalidating even the ground Marty walked on even frothing at the mouth over it. She seemed overwhelmed at her hatred of Marty.
Marty,
Profound, moving, and very validating. The release from the C of S was so full of outpoints, it was hard for me to digest or believe. Of course, it was disgusting on many ethical levels. Today, your added information just validates the workability of the Tech, amplifies my love for LRH and what he has done (imperfect though he may have been- just as all of us are as human beings). Your recounting here increases my interest in coming back to participate and gives me an even greater appreciation for all you have done to ensure that LRH’s advancements are NOT buried by the implanter and sector prison warden-in-chief, David Miscavige.
I distinctly remember sitting in an HSDC course room, studying the Auditor’s Code and the axioms and marveling for the first time on the sanctity of the auditing session and how unique and important trust is to get a pc to open up and communicate in order for whole auditing process to work. With hidden cameras in auditing rooms, look-in systems and are really used for spying and manipulation, assumption that the pc/pre-OT is basically bad and has to be watched and controlled, and the proven use of pc files to control and restimulate – who wants that!? That’s a very old and very nasty game I don’t want to play.
Congratulations on your own profound wins.
Midge…you hit the little SP right on his exploding little head. Bravo!
Lynne.
A friend of mine had ECT unfortunately. Another friend wrote to LRH and asked if he could take him on as a preclear. LRH told him to go for it. He did. Many hours of auditing later this person was returned to a productive bright contributing software programmer as he is today.
Nice one.
No. I think you are Calvin. 🙂
You are a very scary man indeed, for this to have been revealed by DM. Thank you for your personal revelations.
Thank you for connecting those dots, Marty. Indeed it was not really easy to see where your last blog threads were heading to.
Those private data you posted here belong to you, and only to you, and for you to use them as you see fit. Let me remind here that whatever data are uncovered in an auditing session the whole exercise of Scn and Dn auditing at every level is to remove charge, mental force, effort from what is being recalled, till in a sort of a moment of bliss it all disappears. Significance is of no importance really.
Pointing at the significance after the charge is gone would be the most silly action one could do. Getting things done, accomplishing one’s goals in all different areas of Life is what one looke for after the charge is gone.
This is not only about the “battle” between DM and you – Life is lived on all flows, n’est-ce pas… – thus part of the message for the sheep in the $church reading “when it gets Darker than this” text is => you could be next, we have your folders too, we can disclose your personal info too, your friends could be next if they don’t conform, etc. Those guys are in a Danger condition at best….
And then, when one is disclosing even the smallest bit of confidential data taken out of pc’s folders, (or I’d say even from the non-formal interview or any communication – where does the Auditor’s Code application stop, huh? when it’s a matter of trust) then the whole subject of Scientology goes by the board.
You wrote about a “why” in an earlier thread. Well, I’d say that there are many “situations’ concerning Scn nowadays, thus perhaps many whys.
THE Why I cannot get rid of for years, when it comes to out-points regarding (ahem) “Organized” Scn is that Hubbard was an Auditor. He was the first Auditor actually. Every policy letter and each one can be analysed through an Auditor’s point of view and be traced back to some piece of Tech.
Since the official $church is not led by an experienced auditor the whole “Organised” Scientology went off rails. I’m not talking about someone just interned here (although that’s already very good for handling of simple matters in Life) – experienced means in my book thousands and thousands of successfull hours in the chair.
And when such a “Leader” and Execs allow or encourage disclosure of confidential personal data then they invalidate and suppresse the whole Work, starting with violating of the Auditor’s Code. Then the subject of Scientology is doomed.
Not really – because I believe that (especially in the long run) the whole subject of Auditing actually belongs to Auditors. Real Auditors.
So true Sinar.
The Attorneys General of the 52 states are responsible for oversight of charitable organizations in their respective states, especially if the organization is registered as a not-for profit entity in the state. Although the CoS is deemed a religious organization, it cannot release information for harrassment or blackmail purposes for any reason, and certainly not after the church has promised parishioners the information was confidential and sacrosanct. The addresses and names of the Attorneys General are found here: http://www.naag.org/current-attorneys-general.php. Marty, I think you should talk to the Attorneys General of Texas and Californis and file a complaint, as should anyone else harmed by Miscavige and company.
I knew this to be a sacrosanct affair, see me comment last post.
In exchange I will send my story to Marty.
FSO staff are briefed Marty is the “Why”? Then they are being briefed they are at the effect of Marty. What fabulous leadership the Church has these days! They are led by Marty!
Pierrot! The embodiment of hope! So true! I have been thinking about you lately and hoping you will include yourself on the Scientology Review site as an auditor so people can find you more often! You have been asset in every way to this Scientology game. XXOO
Department 20! Marty is actually running department 20 for Scientology!
VFP: Handled situations which result in the total acceptance of Scientology and it’s founder throughout the area.
While Corp OSA sponsors web sites claiming Dianetics and Scientology do not really work! Pointing the finger at Marty as cause over statistics in the Church! They are in treason to their own people all tthe way across the boards!
Mike Rinder,
Or any other ex OSA int staff, can you give us a behind the scenes briefing of what OSA Int staff are required to do, to counter the negative press.
Aren’t there specific OSA Int statitstics, which OSA has to calculate weekly, of the negative press, in terms of inches or number of views by the public of the negative press?
And that OSA Int also has statistics for “Handling” the negative press, meaning they have a statistic when they get a positive message across about Scientology or if they succeed in getting a negative “dead agenting” message out, publicly, through the media.
The Freedom magazine bypasses the regular media, and allows OSA to thus get their “negative images handled” statistic up, in otherwords.
And I’d like to know in the weekly OSA Int analysis of what they as a group plan to do overall, to “handle” their targeted enemies, a little of what it’s like at the weekly OSA Int staff meetings, when the various Divisional heads get up to speak, and tell briefly what their weekly stats are, and what they doing to “handle” those downstats or their upstats (to make themselves even more upstat).
Thanks in advance. Maybe a nice article, and lots of ex OSA staff who recall typical OSA Int weekly staff meetings, will chip in their stories.
LIke, at staff meetings, what do the people like Kur Weiland say, when they have to mention some enemiy’s name, does Kurt use a slurring nickname for the enemy, or does Kurt politely use the actual enemies formal name!
Chuck
Don’t worry, they won’t take down the Freedumb site. McScavanger won’t let them. I’m positive he is very proud of his own insane froth-mouthed rantings – such a clever boy – no one would dare touch his mag.
You know what they say – if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
Anybody who actually reads the mag will be able to much more clearly see the little quacker and hopefully get out of the pond!
Our hearts go out to you, Marty.
Let me add that the Religious Technology Center (and a number of other CoS organizations) is registered with the Attorney General of California and is one of the charities his office regulates.
Here is how it appears on the Attorney General’s database
RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER EX579691 Charity Exempt – Active LOS ANGELES CA Charity Registration Charity
Marty —
This last post is remarkable. Quite remarkable in the revelation of your recall and it’s substantiation.
dm has completely ruined the subject of scientology. Ruined beyond recognition.
This topic of PROVING that scientology DOESNT work according to dm, because of pre-natals and or ones past, is a subject very personal to me.
I would like to comment on my own experience of session data finding it’s way to the internet – albeit somewhat skewered:
My first 5 years in the Sea Org at Celebrity Center were wonderful. It was ONLY after an interview at FOLO when I was leaving CCLA to go to Flag and the interviewer decided that I needed to petition Jane Kember (Deputy Guardian World Wide) for permission due to a prior psych history.
I thought nothing of petitioning as I had stellar stats (in fact my replacement of 32 years ago is STILL the reg at CC Int). And yet, Jane Kember not only denied my transfer to flag but said I was ineligible for the Sea Org.
My world collapsed but my ex-husband at the time encouraged me to re-petition with more data. Again denied. Since he was already at Flag, Diana Hubbard told me to send the petition to her and she would see the LRH received it. He approved my petition and welcomed me.
Then LRH moved further off the lines in the late 70’s. Every time I seemed to turn around it was MY psych history (which per “Illegal PCs” I wasnt but someone would STILL make a big deal) was the REASON for another round of PDH checking or being removed from post as not suitable DUE to the prior psych history).
The despair I felt when removed from Full Time Training in 1979, training to become one of the newly formed INT Strata execs was palpable. I felt I had no choice but to leave the Sea Org because NOTHING could change my past and therefore my own goals and purposes WITHIN the Sea Org could never be fulfilled.
Scientology at this time started to become a trap to me and I left shortly thereafter.
BTW — THIS fact — my psych history was published on several of the anti-Marty sites almost TWO years ago. The data ONLY coming from MY PC folders.
This most recent post by Marty gives me pause to think — perhaps REAL scientology DOES work as LRH said. Wouldn’t that be something?
Surely our world needs help so desperately. Turning on the TV proves it.
Love,
Christine
Ditto
Marty, I know you expect NO sympathy on this extreme violation of spiritual trust but man, I just wanna sit, chill and watch a beautiful sunset with you, no words spoken but plenty of theta support to ease this dastardly deed just a little with you!
But I do have this to say…..
Yes David Miscavige, just as you suspected, the taste in your corn flakes this morning IS off. Its off cuz Marty just pissed in em all the way from Texas!
Have a good day Brother!
— Jackson
All it takes is for one “suppressive person” to stop in Clearwater for a cup of coffee and the whole base shuts down and goes into hiding. What a sad, scared, bunch of fools……
THE POWER OF TRUTH
Well done, Marty, for your perfect handling of this situation.
And, YES, Scientology does work.
Allow me to share my personal one on this:
My father, who was a high-ranking officer in the Israeli army, shot himself in the head when I was 5. I found this out many years later.
As a kid, other children would ask me where my dad was. I was shy to tell them I had no dad and made up stories like, “he’s away on business”, “he’s traveling”, “he’s overseas”, etc. I couldn’t confront telling them I had no dad because it would make me vulnerable, weak, someone to mock. Or, for grown-ups, someone to pity.
Years later, in Scientology, I really enjoyed being Sec Checked. It was a challenge to confront my misdeeds and a game to see what I could talk about. I’ve had huge wins on FPRD auditing, and I’ve had hundreds of hours of this, even though most were delivered so as to get me to change my mind about DM.
But the more I exposed of myself the more POWERFUL I became. When I have nothing to hide, I have nothing to be ashamed of, there is nothing anyone can hurt me with.
I am bare, open, transparent, no games, no secrecies, all theta, no MEST traps left.
I am calm, happy, unlimited ARC with the environment, at cause, willingly in comm with all around me, free to reach on all dynamics & in all directions.
You’ll agree I have come a long way since being a shy kid, right?
So does Scientology work or what?
Marty — I admire and respect your courage and personal integrity enormously. This is just another demonstration of it.
Of course, as others have noted here, this a classic outpoint of dropped out time. Had they been railing against you with something that you did at the end of your time in the RCS or even after, it might possibly make some bit of sense — though this sort of information will never flatter those that try to spread it to harm another (I well recall Dear Leader ranting about Rich Behar’s mother being a mental patient on Nightline and the negative reaction that engendered and that wasnt even pc folder data). But to try to make you appear incompetent/evil/grotesque for something pre-Scientology makes an utter mockery of Miscavige anointing you as the personal auditor to the stars and senior ethics officer of planet earth. I guess they are claiming that you were insane before you were in the Sea Org (due to your mother) and then sane when you were IN the Sea Org until some point when you went insane again and now have fully reverted to “native state”? It defies logic.
This is so typical Miscavige — he assigns wrong source to everything. And he changes his stories and redirects blame like a one armed fireman spraying a 2 inch firehose….
Reminds me of my debut, the outing of a PC and the breach of sacred bond. I asked in which way that wasn’t an overt and the more or less unanimous rebuttal was: He deserves it!
The positive part today, Scientology really works.
ML/A
Tony,
I second this, legal action.
It appears that DM’s hatred of Marty has reached such proportions that all attempt to LOOK legal, all attempts at covering up the source of the information or be somewhat careful with his shots have blown to the wind.
Compare it to a swelling and flooding river stepping over its normal boundaries. Just plain ugly!
Marty may not want to go legal because it is extremely personal but it looks like first class material to prove that currently the CHURCH of Scientology is no longer a Church since it has abandoned adherence to its most basic principles and thus should get its Non-profit status cancelled plus huge penalties. How about as a class action with those similarly hit with exposure of PURELY personal data?
It would be a hell of a nail in DM’s coffin! It could be THE nail or stake through DM’s heart that finishes him off for good as the so called leader of the Co$.
Greta
Or the CEO then ordered that you be given fake, placebo pills without being informed that you would no longer be getting the real pills. Or that you would receive fake pills that are actually poisoned, while you were thinking you were getting the real medicine.
I think all these scenarios have occurred in the CoS, depending on the level of malevolence DM or his henchmen were feeling that particular day.
Windhorse, thank you for sharing your story.
I appreciate it.
Love,
SKM
So true, Betsy. Mcfishtail is giving the apparency that he is trying to stop Marty. In truth, he is doing his best to bury Scientology. Who would ever set foot in an org after reading about their attempt to . . . to . . . to do whatever it is they are trying to do. (It is hard to make sense of insanity.) One wonders what the clubbed seals will be tossed at the New Year’s event later this month.
Anononyourside
Just to add some more facts to your excellent post:
I knew the auditor who audited DM in the late 60s at St. Hill. She was German, Marianne Frank (RIP). The story I heard a few months ago was that she audited DM and the auditing did not go well. She ended the auditing expressing “that he had to grow up”. She likely did not fully realize what she had on her hands.That’s a mild version of the ‘attributes of the antisocial personality’ no 4) “A characteristic, and one of the sad things about an antisocial personality, is that it does not respond to treatment or reform or psychotherapy”. LRH, HCOB 27 SEPTEMBER 1966, THE ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITY THE ANTI-SCIENTOLOGIST)
As far as the school shooting goes -as in many previous such incidents- it isn’t necessarily what it is described to be.
There was a 2nd shooter (now no longer mentioned in the media), the weapons used are standard CIA issue, the mother was connected to CIA or one of its associated groups. The lone shooter-stories are getting stale. See http://www.infowars.com for more data.
Greta
Tony, I posted the following very late in the prior thread, Since you mentioned taking legal action, and because it may have been missed by many coming so late, I will take the opportunity to re-post it here, if I may.
Marty, I know you don’t want to get into litigation with the corporate “Church” of Scientology because you don’t want to play its game. Nonetheless, people who have had confidential information from their PC folders disclosed or published by the “Church” may want to consider seeing a qualified attorney about asserting a claim for invasion of privacy by publication or disclosure of private facts. “Unlike libel or slander, truth is not a defense for invasion of privacy.” See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_laws_of_the_United_States#Public_disclosure
Only for example, in Texas:
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/publication-private-facts-texas
For example, in California:
http://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/1800/1801.html
I just thought people should know that, in addition to being morally and ethically wrong, depending on the particular state publication or disclosure of confidential PC folder information might be actionable in tort under the theory of invasion of privacy by publication or disclosure of private facts.
Anon, yes, I think the comparison is warranted.
Marty,
Karry and I attempted to head off any Church of Miscavige Third Party Black PR campaign against us by telling Karry’s Kool-Aid drinking family and my non-Scn mom our entire life histories, with NOTHING excluded – telling them that occasionally the church uses private confessional data to blackmail former members.
My Non-Scientologist mom was cool with all of it and expressed her sorrow for us having gone through all of that and assured us that she loved us, was proud of us and would always be there for us.
Karry’s Scientologist family however tried to justify all of it by equating everything to misunderstoods and O/W’s on the Church’s and Our parts. They also assured us that they loved us and would never disconnect from us.
Nevertheless, shortly after I came our on your blog, Karry’s mom sent an email on behalf of Karry’s family disconnecting from us and notifying us that if we wanted to contact them that we would have to do it through OSA.
Hey Miscavige, Something can’t stick in your craw if your not eating it.
Figure that one out, pussy.
I recall listening to an LRH lecture from the early 1950s in which he was reporting psychometric results on pcs before and after auditing. One of the pcs who got positive results was found after the fact of auditing to have had ECT treatments earlier in his life, but still got good improvement with auditing. LRH sounded pretty happy reporting this!
“Hope is simply a future possibility that one might have an effect on something and is a substitute for being able to have it on something now.” — LRH, 30 December 1957, Cause and Effect – Education, Unknowing Effect. Ability Congress.
To those still in (even if it’s just a foot) take a stand. Have the courage to say what you have observed. You DO have a voice. Please use it. Let’s end this.
It’s somewhat ironic that a “psych”, Martha Stout – in her book “The Sociopath Next Door”, says exactly the same thing about sociopaths as LRH did.
(Sociopathy is just another word for antisocial personality disorder.)
Miscavige, even the psychs can see you.
This may be true, Zephyr.
Terror is used to make people submitive.
Sad but true. Merchants of Chaos.
It was used many times in the 2000’s.
And the IAS is using it since mid 80’s.
OK, I’ll put in another post, mainly because I now never want to
soil my posts with DM’s name together with names of people
I have respect and have high regards for.
DM and OSA people do you know what the word “Scientology”
deals with and what qual’s purpose is? You would not be far off
if you say “to make this world a better place to live”, “to help
LRH to improve conditions on this planet”. Good god, look at
what you are doing instead!!!
Laughter!
Sorry of having used LRH name in the above.
Oops gow, think I just slipped out of sequence some
six rungs down the posting ladder here, thanks for
“catching” me! BTW, nice postings to boost the cause!
When I read your previous post,Marty, my intuition told me that this info , if it were true, had to have been culled from your personal case folders. And now your courageous divulging of the facts of the matter has confirmed my intuition.That courage alone speaks volumes as to what a big being you are.
DM’s desperate personal attack on you tells me he is about to lose what little sanity he has left. But what really irked me more was how he tried to drag your mother’s personality through the mud at the same time. Truly despicable.
You are a burning pitchfork in his rear end. His rage towards you is so intense I can’t imagine he can find any aspect of his life where there is real pleasure.
You are winning and he is losing and he must know it because it is tearing him apart.
How anyone who knows even basic red on white or the basic philosophy of Scientology can associate with him must have lost the ability to look a long time ago.
DM couldn’t grant beingness to a dust mote.
Keep flourishing and prospering Marty. It really drives DM bonkers.
I think I recall reading something about that phenomenon in the characteristics of an SP somewhere……..
What Miscavige does not and will not ever get is that Thetans in contrast to MEST bodies can confront anything from past, present and future.
I won’t comment on the action of exposing private data from personal PC folders. All of us can have a clear understanding of why this is done and of course enough IQ and uptoneness to not even bother but be able to think with the data and evaluate the situation:
So f…ing what, David? What is Scientology all about? Ah, of course, with you on the helm, everything has gone by the boards so whatever comes handy you use it to protect your ass. But we are not falling for this stuff. It’s total BS. Scientology is there to do just that. Help people. Of course, you cannot have any idea of helping those who speak truth which you want to hide. End of evaluation.
The Cof$ cannot do anything else but try to nullify Marty in such a disgusting way ruining all the work LRH did in the eyes of auditors and Scientologists who trusted the church to keep the privacy of such data for the sake of spiritual improvement.
Miscavige has totally destroyed the subject. There is NO spiritual improvement in the church. It’s up to us to do something decent about it now. And this is where I flow a lot of admiration to you, Marty. It’s because you never thought to protect ” yourself ” so much or try to hide things or justify things but cared more about the subject of Scientology and those groups that are forming up around the planet now.
Marty
And so David Miscavige presents his little gem to the world assuming you would quake in fear? Perhaps he was trying to separate you from those who align with your purposes, or consider you worthy of their support? Perhaps he was trying to instil the fear that he would do the same to all of us?
Well, all I can say is that he doesn’t have the faintest clue of the true orders of magnitude of the force he is dealing with, ACTUAL, REAL Theta, in QUANTITY and QUALITY.
Eric S
The little fella has not practiced his TRs. I’d say he flunked on this one when Marty pushed his buttons. Kudos Marty on the understanding of the nature of the beast and the excellent use of Ron’s tech, I really respect you as a thetan. Oh, On the last post I mentioned I had visited FCDC. I asked about their auditing prices it was $3200 an intensive and they could get that down to $2200 if bought in a block. I know where I’m puttin my money. ARC Bill Dupree
Just to be clear here for those who’ve never partaken of services in a Scientology org. It isn’t the church’s auditors who are transgressing the basic confidentiality bond with preclears – it’s church management – specifically the Demented One and his servile minions in OSA.
David Miscavige is simply incapable of creating enough entheta to overwhelm even the theta represented by this blog, much less all the other aligned theta in existence elsewhere.
The “game” is over. He is not even very entertaining to “play with” any more.
David Miscavige is now simply a dead man walking.
Eric S
David Miscavige
“Do you smell that smell? The smell of death is all around you.”
Eric S
gow, this is a great story, and i’m glad you posted it!
As a very young boy, (only child) I had witnessed my
sole parent, my own mom, taken away, after sliding
into alcoholic oblivion. She was in an institution and
received ECT over a 7 month period. To me it was a
most frightening experience to find she had emerged
as a complete stranger, a zombie, whom was unable
to recognize me, nor me her. Thankfully, some 20 yrs
on, she not only had mostly recovered, but I had even
gotten her on to the Comm. course, which she passed
with flying colours, just before leaning the body.(1978)
My mind was absolutely made up by the Scn reports on
ECT after that, since the results only seemed to reflect
on how barbaric and crude the “treatment” was.
A colleague of my daughter, (also a policewoman) cared
for her disabled dad, up till the day he died. She then
just completely fell apart, and she was sent for extensive
ECT. Naturally, I was shocked to hear about this, as she
is such a sweet young lady!
Well, the upshot is, that not only did she completely
recover, but I have to admit that in THIS instance, she
was actually better off AFTER the treatment, and her
level of comm has increased markedly since.
I put it down to the fact that she is, after all, a separate
entity from the “brain” and has managed to transcend
the engramic trauma of the ECT (performed in 2010!)
We learn new stuff every day, or so it seems.
Yes Scientology does work and thank goodness we have Marty here to remind us of that.
When we found out what Scientology really was, that it worked and that it promised us a much better future, we threw up our arms in joy. We saw the Church, the auditors and Ron’s intentions and we thought we had it made. Freedom was just around the corner for all of us.
But the Bank wasn’t banished yet and it made a big comeback while we weren’t looking. We should not make this mistake again.
Marty,
Thank you for being a living testimony to “When you tell the Truth it is in your past” (as opposed to “when you lie it is in your future”).
Greta
I really think thats how it should be. If it’s not, you just lose the effectiveness of it. I havent been up there, but I have always had a hunch you guys are doing it standard “Rons’s way” .
+10! Especially the last two sentences!
“Department 20! Marty is actually running department 20 for Scientology!”
Yep, I’d say this is true.
Leonore,
Former Dept. 20
Yep, just imagine, despite his most supreme efforts,
Marty just WON’T go away! Poor pathetic, tormented, fragmented, demented davey. Not only is he subject
to a living NIGHTmare, but it’s exacerbated into a
“DAYmare” as well!
Just goes to show Ronnie….absolutes ARE attainable!
Miscavige has just proven this……24 / 7 / 365 KARMA!
Marty-I read your blog every day. I don’t always comment, but I always read. Today, I had to step away from my computer, leave my house and go on some errands before I could compose myself to write something that would make sense.
This made me very emotional. I felt uncomfortable that I would be allowed to read something that is so personal about you. Then I got super pissed off that the reason you posted this is because David Asshole Miscavige forced your hand. Unfortunately for him, you were holding 4 aces and he is holding NOTHING! Game over fucker. You have the truth and courage on your side. He looks like a petty, immature, pathetic and truly desperate individual.
This situation has done nothing but show me how courageous you are, how much conviction you have, how you have NO reason to be ashamed of anything. You truly believe in the process of Scientology and it is very apparent.
Hopefully, you will be called to testify in court someday because this would be a show stopper. How many times have they perjured themselves by calling COS a “religion”??? Our files our kept confidential, they are used only to benefit our parishioner…blah blah blah, what a bunch of bullshit.
Good luck and may the sun shine again…darkeness will NOT prevail.
Careful Greta — if you dig deeply enough on Alex Jones, you’ll find plenty of info coming from other sources. One of which is nomorefakenewsDOT com — and what do we find?
Jon Rappoport clear # 466 or so from Los Angeles. Who is now educating his very conspiracy oriented public about psych drugs and that all shooters are on them. (probably true BUT BUT) Which is NOT to say I agree with psych drugs, I’m just mentioning that you should check your sources. Rappoport also sells business counseling that seems VERY suspiciously like the admin scale etc etc
To me — these conspiracy stories are stale. And frankly IF they are true, we are basically powerless to possibly “win” — all the power, money, control lies at the top of the illuminati pyramid.
And I for one will not just hunker down. I’d rather believe that
“ALL men are basically good” and that it’s up to each of us to manifest that in our lives. Even as the David Icke Reptilians come marching into my front yard.
Christine
(for those not keeping up with the Conspiracy Theories after you were in the church — having been forbidden by dm to read — Behold a Pale Horse or Gods of Eden, you’d better catch up!! — sarcasm)
Having Marty live a happy life on a daily basis and continuing to flourish and prosper hurts DM more than filing a lawsuit. It’s not worth the energy, time and money to file a lawsuit for him to hide behind lawyers. Just keep on living and telling the truth is all you need.
Thanks Marty for this account of your experiences inside and outside of this pathetic and dwindling cult of dave. I found this inspiring and uplifting.
Let me add something by addressing your most avid viewer and gawker:
POB, you sawed-off sociopath. Just consider you might even grow a least a few more inches if you’d allow yourself to be competently and compassionately audited by someone like Marty, Karen, etc. to get this shit of yours as-ised. I know you hate all of this ‘stuff’ but why don’t you at least give it a try.
Sure beats a jail cell with your next BBF nicknamed ‘bubba’ and/or your next time around…
So sorry, Marty. On all aspects of this.
Miscavige: you are a wet-fart, piss-ant, little turd. And that goes for anyone else who has ever been involved in this kind of behavior. There is absolutely no excuse.
Also, your head may also shrink to a normally proportioned size, you idiot dwarf.
I totally agree Claudio. The greatest virtue is turning bad to good. Entheta into Theta. It is the mark of big beings. Marty has done that over and over, and brilliantly now again. On the other side, the dark side of the moon, DM and the CoS have been doing the exact opposite: turning Theta into Entheta. Over and over, suppressing this beautiful gift, Scientology
Marty, Great confront, great writing, huge heart and full Theta result!!
chrismann9 — To answer your question, I have no idea whether violating priest-penitent confidentiality is “illegal” in the sense of being a crime. However, I did post above authority for the proposition that, depending on the state, it may or may not give rise to civil cause of action for damages for invasion of privacy by publication or disclosure of private facts. Rather than repeat myself, I’ll simply provide a link to the specific comment:
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/does-scientology-work/#comment-244314
Marty, Thank you for sharing the intimate details of a very personal and private incident. This is a classic example of the wonders of the tech and how amazing it is when applied with life changing results.
What is sad is the way it was and is being shared; in such a horrific way by DM, it is obvious that DM never in all his “auditing” ever experienced case gain in any way and “CONFIDENTIAL” session data means nothing to him.
ML, Jan
That’s about right. It’s pretty clear that Dave’s Marty fixation has become so all-consuming that any vestiges of sanity he may have been clinging on to are now wafting downstream into oblivion. In this condition he is capable of anything and I pray he is stopped very soon now before some terrible tragedy.
An may I just say, God bless the victims, survivors and families of the children in the terrible school shooting at Newtown school. I hope Obama means it when he says something meaningful will be done to prevent any more of these tragedies.
Hahaha… you’re so mean…. 😛
Marty ~~
The bitter bill of having served an entity and Leader that can sink this low is hard to swallow.
As I proceeded on my journey within, I came to realize that Scientology Inc’s goals were NOT spiritual. Money goals, Political goals, Power Hungry Goals, Celebrity manipulation Goals, but not Spiritual Enlightenment Goals.
In fact Official Radical Scientology leads people deeper and deeper into debt and a trapped enforced Identity of “A Scientologist in good standing”, indoctrinated into what to think, what to read, what to not read, who to befriend, who to make an enemy.
The entity is designed to purge, crush, humiliate and retaliate to one and all and has a mentality of power and paranoid cosmic politics. The leading concern in Scientology Inc is Money and Power, not wisdom, not realization and certainly no TRUST.
It does not even PRETEND to keep confessional data private.
Fundamental problems of the mind are not resolved in Miscavology hence we have “OT VIIs and OT VIIIs” who commit suicide, huge fraud, ponzi schemes, use extreme violence and / or exit the Church to post on the Boards and blogs.
I applaud and salute you for laying it on the line, even when so private and personal.
Yes, Scientology does work. When you know the correct tech, and apply it correctly, it works. Auditing, ethics, admin. When I read about and hear stories that I know can only come from the auditing folders that have been leaked into the media, I know that the Church is not practicing Scientology but rather some demonic form of suppressed help and control. It’s restimulative in it’s mock-up of other failed purpose religions on the whole track. One of the common denominator’s I’ve observed is when some entity or group of entities come in to conquer and destroy, the first things they undertake is destruction of the arts, libraries, the written word. And…dismantle religion. Big Thetans are always in the cross hair and on the radar. It’s a long, standing tradition. Some fly under the radar for awhile, some fly into it. Depends on the game and players. I figure any one left playing on the side of the Church are wearing the grey hats and are just on the infamous roller coaster ride.
Hey Marty,
The fact you keep coming forward in the face of all of this outright evil is not surprising, although it is still quite awesome.
The fact that you do it to the credit of the subject of scientology itself is simply invaluable.
Thank you.
Vic
Fair Game is alive and well in RCS, and as a result they have sabotaged any possibility of getting results from what remaining technology they do have. Fools. How can a PC be “in-session”, knowing that their innermost thoughts or secrets can be used against them? This is betrayal of the highest order. In effect, all auditing in DM’s church becomes HCO-Style (e.g. “I am not auditing you” – you got that right!).
The church cannot recover from having played this card. No lame excuses or lies or justifications can reverse the action. Not only will this be despised by thinking Scnists, but by the general public as well. They know the value of traditional priest/penitent privilege from their mainstream religions.
For the general public who have questioned whether the Church of Scientology is a bona fide religious organization, I think the church has answered that question.
Great comment and observation, Tony.
This is like when they wanted to tell all the OTVlll’s they had to go back onto OTVll, and it was David Mayo’s fault! Only David Mayo had not been on lines for eight years! By the way, David Miscavige trying to make him the least important person on Earth created a mass exodus. The stats have been crashing since David shut down the mission network in 1982. Defrauding everyone who went for OTVlll and telling them they had to go back on to Vll created the largest mass exodus of OT’s in the Church. GAOT cancelled the certs of every auditor on the planet. Another mass exodus. So, it was all grim anyway. The staff at the FSO know David Miscavige is a fuck up. What they don’t know is that David really put the nail in the coffin with his recent abuse to Karen De La carrier . That’s where he hung himself. Right there.
The customers can deal with a lot of shopping disappointment. Changes in social status, changes in economy, changes with religious fanatics and bad executives who couldn’t run a successful coffee shop in the real world, simply because there is no purpose to SERVE! But the reason all of those customers ARE customers and NOT staff, is because of FAMILY.
Whatever P.R. Miscavige had invested in himself before that, went right out the window.
When you fuck with people’s kids you step over the line. Pacific Area Command and CC Int have flat lined. Stats crashed and flatlined over that.
So what is David and his OSA crew up to this week? Fair gaming another mother and her son!
Glee of insanity.
Note: The sort of incidents described by Marty are not unique to him. The ability of Scientology and Diantetics, when applied exactly as developed by L. Ron Hubbard, to discharge the trauma in such incidents is effective when applied to almost anyone. Not only do these procedures relieve trauma, but they improve memory and give a person back their own personal “history”.
Sorry, David Miscavige, once that trauma has been erased, it can never be put back into effect unless one resorts to squirreling and felonious acts. Oh, that’s right. You are already doing that, you heartless little bastard. Well, tough luck anyway because some people have gotten so much out of Dianetics and Scientology that they don’t cave in that easily.
Now what are you going to do? COMPLETELY destroy the Tech? You’re working on that? Well, good luck as your little reverse Tech experiment blows up in your ugly face. By the way, you are hereby declared in a condition of Treason (again) for violating the Auditor’s Code. If recent history repeats, you will not be applying the correct condition formula. When a being does not apply the correct ethics formula for the condition they are in, they drop two conditions below the one that they are actually in. So, I am at a loss as to what to say to you because there is only one condition that I know of below Treason and that is the condition of Confusion. But you are probably one below that, whatever it is. Oblivion?
But back to the truly important subject at hand. Marty, thank you for connecting the dots. Thanks for all of your posts. Thanks for creating this blog. And thank you for demonstrating and attesting that Dianetics and Scientology really do work wonders, and being a living example of that.
How anyone who knows even basic red on white or the basic philosophy of Scientology can associate with him must have lost the ability to look a long time ago.
Excellent observation, and may I add that, those who are still imbibing the Kool-Aid are going to have a tough time building trust with the current Indies after DM falls.
Hey radar flyer. Yeah, you, secretly reading this blog in fear and hiding. Now’s your chance to get out and make a stand, while doing so will burnish your credentials and prove your honor. Don’t come to me with your hand outstretched when it’s no longer dangerous to do so. What makes your neck so precious?
Thank you Marty for connecting dots. I think the workability of Scientology tech is in proportion to the degree of one’s personal integrity. Also, I’m angry that Scn Inc. uses a mother’s sufferings to attack her son. It is against privacy and extremely malicious.
Not always true, Ronnie. There are auditors in the so-called “church” who happily play the treason game. Greatest good and all that crap.
I have this profound ability to see the good even in the ‘worst’ of people. Miscavige has me beat on this one.
I’m happy you have your certainty Marty. x
Dear Marty,
I was deeply moved by this post. Your detailed account of your innermost thoughts, awesome recall, admirable purpose line and wonderful wins on this are extremely inspirational. You saw the being that was your mother, apart from her case and recalled her love and care for her son. Complete theta.
Mill Valley hits a sentimental note with me as I grew up there and know the landscape very well. Your descriptions fit perfectly.
Excellent and beautiful post in response to the craven degradation that is the realm of one COB, David Misgavige. His attempt to upset you is truly lame. It is becoming obvious to one and all that he is a LOSER of monument proportions! Thank you for sharing this!
Marty. You are a man of great courage and ability to confront. You are also a man of truth. The Church is dead. These are my conclusions quite confirmed after these past two posts. As strong as you obviously are, I am sorry you have been subjected to this Treason to the subject by Miscavige.
I also had some moments of knowingness I guess you’d call it-recently. In light of events in the world, I truly feel that if Scientology been gotten out to more people. If true Scientology had been applied for the last 26 years, things may very well be different in the world now. The overts of Miscavige therefore are vast. They are vast on a personal level to you and so many others and in the big picture as well.
Thought of this song for all of us Wayward Sons and Daughters:
From Urban Dictionary: Wayward son: Any individual who thinks for themselves, and laughs in the face of authority. Someone who goes against the grain in several aspects of their life,.
Once I rose above the noise and confusion
Just to get a glimpse beyond this illusion
I was soaring ever higher, but I flew too high
Though my eyes could see I still was a blind man
Though my mind could think I still was a mad man
I hear the voices when I’m dreaming,
I can hear them say
Carry on my wayward son,
There’ll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don’t you cry no more
Masquerading as a man with a reason
My charade is the event of the season
And if I claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that I don’t know
On the stormy sea of moving emotion
Tossed about, I’m like a ship on the ocean
I set a course for winds of fortune,
But I hear the voices say
Carry on my wayward son
There’ll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don’t you cry no more
Carry on,
You will always remember
Carry on,
Nothing equals the splendor
Now your life’s no longer empty
Surely heaven waits for you
Carry on my wayward son
There’ll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don’t you cry,
Don’t you cry no more,
No more!
Marty, this is infuriating. That they so obviously abuse the sanctity of auditing. However, I believe the committed a federal offense. I recommend that you file a complaint with the us attorney for HIPAA violation. They HAVE to take action, they do not have a choice in the matter.
An honest question; how can DM function as a 1.0 to a 1.5 on the Tone Scale and be fixated on the First Dynamic, yetttt also be OT8 or above? I can’t bend my brain around this. Please illuminate for all of us!
To answer the question of the headline :
Yes, Scientology does work – Marty, your essay here proves the basic truth of “if in doubt, communicate”.
Note it does not say manipulate, lie, threaten, PR etc.
It says communicate, which implies one has to be here and be oneself to some degree. With integrity and decency, granting beingness to the listener so he can make up his own mind about the communication.
Martin, I’ve just got to say it. I’ve had the stray thought a time or two that Miscavige might ‘go postal’ on the Int base, but seeing you mention the fact that he’s now so downscale that he’s capable of anything, and the horrific slaughter in CT yesterday in the same post is…well…
He is not OT VIII or OT VII and anything below that he might have attested to, but those attests were as truthful as his statements at International Events.
Marty Mark Rathbun = CAUSE
Midget david miscavige= EFFECT
And this is killing little davey. 🙂
There ya go Teddie.
Kabamm !!
You might as well ask who is auditing him? That question alone makes my head spin weird.
I applaud and salute you for laying it on the line, even when so private and personal. K#1
No kidding Karen, I’m just floored, but at the same time appreciative in a newly found sense.
Well, then it’s worse than I thought, Les. Much worse.
I was thinking today, I bet there is more of this type of shit to come, especially now he can’t get any spies close enough to matter.
If he considers that he is Clear it would be another fabrication of immense proportion.
How about it Davey, let’s get you on the cans and have Marty give you a clear check. That needle of yours probably moves like a chunk of sidewalk.
Marty and anyone/everyone else who has had the Church of Scientology breach the clergy/penitent privilege has legal standing for litigation under the Adjudication of a Breach of Fiduciary Duty. This is similar to clergy misconduct, but is also relevant to the church itself, since it deals with matters of breach of confidentiality, and does so without the same First Amendment Issues. It falls under the same pre-existing (secular) standards of care to which all fiduciaries are held.
A church who divulges confidential information on the internet, with the purpose of defamation of character of a current or former member, can not hide behind the First Amendment to do so, It actually provides evidence of the breach of confidentiality with purposeful intent.
This is also evidence of Public Disclosure of Private Facts, which is also grounds for litigation.
Take the time to research this by paying particular attention to prior cases in these matters. It would be worth your while to consider a class action lawsuit with counsel who has successfully won cases in this matter. Remember, if the CoS wants to use the cover of being a church to escape wrong doing, it needs to also be held accountable for actions which are unlawful and unethical just like other churches or other institutions.
Keep in mind; there is strength in numbers. The internet can prove extremely useful in providing you evidence of the CoS’s use of black PR and malicious propaganda to use to your advantage in establishing credibility to your claims, particularly if your name and reputation have been maligned.
Research case law on the internet so you’ll be able to have a better understanding of your rights and don’t be afraid to discuss this with a lawyer. I’m not trying to push anyone to litigate, I’m only hoping to help pass on information to familiarize you with your rights, and to let you know that you do have justification for a lawsuit if you decide to investigate the possibility.
Extending best wishes to you all.
Hi Dani, Loved your comment. Just wonderful!! I totally got it. Yes. Scientology works. Hope to get to Israel and say Shalom!
Marty,
This is despicable. No being with any sense of morality or ethics would say something like this. And since this is coming from an alleged “Church” via their auditing/confessional files brings into question the Demented Midget’s organization’s right to call themselves a religious institution.
Marty, I just want to give the little boy who lost his mother a big {{{HUG}}}. And I want to give the man who is being attacked with a heartbreaking family tragedy, my support and respect. Oh yeah, and another really big {{{HUG}}}.
I am heartbroken and MAD as HELL about this! I hope and pray you have been able to process what happened and have found peace within yourself.
DM is not OTVIII. I think he’s been stuck on OT VII for 20 years or something like that. He is also not in 1.0 or 1.5 on the Tone scale, I don’t think. He is on the minus side, like Controlling Bodies.
” Therefore you are an illegal pc and that is why you are “causing trouble”. ”
Oh dear. Has anyone told TC that his Auditor was an “illegal PC”? Someone needs to break the news gently…. he’ll need to redo all those wins, OT’s, etc. Good thing he has all those movies coming out. He’s going to need a lot of $$$.
How far up the bridge is he, then?
So “The Emperor has no clothes”! Education is key!
Tony Ortega is covering this matter:
Scientology Leader David Miscavige: Getting Desperate?
http://tonyortega.org/2012/12/15/scientology-leader-david-miscavige-getting-desperate/
Excerpt: “Nothing could match the revulsion we felt yesterday at the mass murder of 20 schoolchildren in Newtown, Connecticut.
But there was something else that made the bile rise in our throat yesterday.
Marty Rathbun, at his blog, pointed out that one of the anonymous attack web sites operated by the Church of Scientology has begun putting up slimy allegations about his mother’s mental health.
It turns out that it’s regurgitated material from a larger article that appeared in the church’s propaganda magazine, Freedom. (We won’t link to it. You can find it easily enough if you want to, or you can just assume that it’s the usual juvenile smear that Freedom specializes in.)”
Windhorse,
Thanks for your thoughts. I must disagree with the tendency to dismiss certain observations as “conspiracy oriented.” Observations are either true, or not, or possibly true, but I really don’t think anyone’s observations should be denigrated or dismissed as “conspiracy oriented,” which seems to me to be a common way to denigrate various ideas that may seem too startling or radical for one to readily agree with. And your caution to “check your sources,” while good advice, should not be used to simply brush aside anything said by sources you may not agree with. It is interesting that you say Jon Rappoport was “clear # 466 or so” as I have been reading some of his recent articles on the Connecticut affair and he did seem to have a certain Citizens’ Commission for Human Rights kind of fire about his convictions, so this is not too surprising. However, I really don’t find anything wrong with that, and it doesn’t seem “suspicious” to me that his business advice might contain elements of Ron Hubbard’s “admin scale.” What’s so bad about that?
As to his conviction that psych drugs can and do occasionally trigger irrational murders and suicides, I personally think that it is clear that they do, and they are now VERY widespread in usage. So, these are points that are both very important and worth considering, regardless of what one thinks of Jon Rappoport. It is also notable that no mention is being made so far in the media that I have seen of the possibility of the perpetrator having been under the influence of psychoactive drugs. If it is a fact that such drugs as anti-depressants may well lie at the root of such horrible incidents as what has recently happened in Connecticut (and I think that that is very likely the case, since there were virtually no such happenings before these drugs became very widespread), then I think we should be outraged about it, as Jon Rappoport is, and that legislators, police and parents should be demanding answers.
Laughter! Laughter! Two escorts mandatory to cross the street. As if Clearwater has a dangerous environment! THEY ARE THE DANGER IN THE ENVIRONMENT! THEY are the only danger in the environment! The religious fanatics / cult. The citizens are scared to death of them! And the staff are ordered not to walk the sidewalk with out two escorts! It’s hysterical!
Thanks Dani, lovely post and I know it’s true.
In the end… so many distractions. And that might be something Hemingway would have said. bla
See Ded- Dedex in the tech dictionary.
LAUGHTER!
Hey Marty, As I have mentioned several times, my own escape route was to take advantage of Miscavige’s fixation on forced confessions by “confessing” to a bunch of fabricated “transgressions” that resulted in me being deemed unqualified for staff at the Int base. Like most people, I knew the quals so just “confessed” ala, “Well, I’ve never told this to anyone before, but before I got into Scientology, actually I… [insert fake secret withhold here].” That put me on the side of not having been qualified for staff at Int in the first place. I gave them about 20 things. My product was DM convinced that I had never been qualified for the Sea Org in the first place — just a bad egg. The reason this worked was because I had already observed from long experience that it was impossible to deny the existence of an overt, but any overt would be accepted no matter how outlandish. So like judo, according to LRH’s jingle “Motion comes in, use and win” I used DM’s fatal flaw to — oops — falsely confess to things that added up to the conclusion I had never been qualified in the first place. And it worked.
But the final “secret withhold” I gave off was that I had indirectly received electroshock when I was in my mother’s womb! “No psychiatric treatment of any kind” is one of the Int quals and so this was what I thought up for that one.
I never gave the matter any more thought until DM launched his defamation campaign on me, and here came all these bogus “confessions” I had made up to escape. Of course DM has to “be right” about it, so he can never admit he was wrong.
The bizarre thing is how DM somehow thinks this would be significant. Something you didn’t even “do” negates the validity of his own personal crimes and gross violations against thousands of innocent people including hundreds of forced abortions, embezzled millions of dollars, inurement, extortion, fraud, etc., etc., etc.
Dave, I am having trouble with the logic of this. Please, help me get this straight….
So…Marty was given ECT when in the womb, in 1956 — and this somehow explains and shows the world that he is a bad person now, in 2012??
Let’s see…. so Marty has audited his way up The Bridge to SOLO NOTs, and has trained his way up to Class IX auditor — but PRIOR to his birth in this life, his tiny infant body received an engram in the form of an electric shock — and this means that all of the auditing and training he has done to date is void and means nothing?
Hmm…. still not quite making sense to me…
So you are saying that this bad, bad man, Marty Rathbun, is crazy and is a suppressive person, because of something that occurred prior to him entering Scientology this life.. ??
You know… no matter how I look at this, I cannot seem to come to grasp your logic on this. I realise this could be because — as you told me yourself — I am illogical in my thinking, and I am psychotic, and have gross glaring outpoints. Yes…. possibly that is why I cannot seem to grasp the significance of what occurred to Marty Rathbun in 1956 and how it relates to now — 2012.
But, I think the problem is more basic than that.
The problem is that I know Scientology works — and you know it doesn’t. As the ecclesiastical head of the Church of Scientology, you firmly know that Scientology technology (auditing and training) changes nothing, handles nothing, alters nothing and cannot make anyone better in any way. I mean look at all the evidence that this is the case! Look at these SP’s everywhere, trying to stop you!
Yep — that is the only way any of this makes any sense. In a very sad and sick way. Dave is not a Scientologist — does not use, apply, believe or understand one iota of it. Not one little bit.
And every day he gets just a little bit more solid, as he sinks down the dwindling spiral.
Hi Marty,
thank you for having the courage to bare your soul in public. I condemn the Inc. for their cowardly and covertly hostile attempt to discredit you with contents of your confidential auditing folder. If ever there was an example of “out ethics” this must take the cake. I take into account that Inc. must be furious with you for revealing Miscavege’s methods of supression in your book What’s Wrong with Scientology but the true and ethical way to discredit you about your information is to serve you with a law suit for defamation and proof you are lying. We all know why they cannot do that!
It may be sheer coincidence but I ordered a copy of your book The Scientology Reformation around Oct 12 and haven’t yet received it, despite querying amazon about the delay. Two months postal delay in 2012?
I am alarmed that you have been forced to move house because of the Inc. surveilance. Any democracy should be likeways alarmed. I’ve never been attacked by Inc., but because I live in govt subsidised housing and fear reprisals by adherants within the public service in this city (although I believe the people of my city are basically ethical) I have chosen not to publicly declare my support of you and fellow independents. The church could make my life very difficult and, being fanatics, could be just as vicious as many past religous fanatics who don’t understand the details of their religion.
I’m a real old timer from 1959, an ex staff member of an official HASI org, St. Hill Class V1 and my fellow class members included such people as David Ziff, Liz Williams, Phyll Stevens, Jane and Kevin Kember, Cynthia Payer and her husband Fred. My course supervisors were Herbie Parkhouse (head of instruction) Fred Hare who later became Mary Sue Hubbard’s secretary, Jack Horner, John Mc Masters, Alan Walter and many other scientologists from the 1950s era (including Ron’s daughter from his first marriage whose name escapes me but she lived in Hawaii). Many of my classmates and St Hill staff of the day (including Reg Sharpe) have, I notice, been declared suppressive. Anyone who could declare Herb and Jenny Parkhouse SP are psychopaths, there’s no other word for it. Jane Kember went on to be head of the Guardian’s Office but would I say she was a suppressive? possibly; although her later actions in America probably classify her as such.
It appears that Inc fears those who can reveal the truth (not a rare fear amongst many in the past) and will resort to the lowest form of covert attack to smear them. If they had right on their side maybe it wouldn’t be so unethical and immoral (besides being a betrayal of fellow beings). But the fact Inc avoids the courts (except when challenged) to escape detection says it all.
Truth will out eventually
Much love,
Dassie
Some of Hubbard’s notes to auditors as the C/S : “From Dianetics Today)
“Flunk – You failed to get anything the pc was interested in..” pg 690
“Flunk. Evaluative comment. Condition liability.” pg 770
“Flunk. Auditor to be retrained. Ran somatic after somatic
erasing nothing just floundering.” pg 655
“Flunk. This auditor forces pcs to go on when they don’t to
and puts them in propitiation.” pg 738
“FLUNK! Evaluative comment! Pg 10. (Of session report) Condition Liability. Interfering with a P.C.’s auditing. Auditor has some preconceived idea of how p.c. should run………..” pg 770
A very rare book at this point. Practically biblical if you can get your hands
on one. Handwritten C/S’s by Hubbard in the back. All sorts of valuable
information, much of it in illustration. No wonder it is the most suppressed book on the planet.
Marty,
Yes indeed, Scientology works and this is what drives the SP David Miscavige wild.
Just to add to his problems, and in keeping with the theme of successful applications of this incredible work, there are now 5 more auditors back on the line here in Oz. Three in training, two in session and rolling along on Standard Tech programs.
That’s in the past weeks. More on the way.
(P.S. the li’l yapping, snapping, carping nonsense I get is nowhere near the onslaught you experience. Thanks for taking the heat and we’ll just keep on keeping on Down Under. )
Off topic The question of how many Scientologists are there actually in the UK has been definitively answered. The UK 2011 Census data has been released and there are officially … 2,418 in England Wales. That’s just ever so slightly shy of OSA estimates of 100,000 +
1.1 is cob’s social tone.
This is horrible, it’s an attempt to prove that Marty is an illegal PC. And DM think it will dead agent him on the eyes of scientologists.
This is a culture soon nobody believes in.
Actually it is not scientology at all.
The HCOB of 1976 on illegals PCs cannot have been written by LRH. At this time the SP was Jane Kember, and this bulletin was obviously written on her order.
After, people who were found having a “psych history” were declared illegal PC, regardless of where they were on the bridge.
l remember a PC, the auditor was auditing something like NED drug/RD. There was an incident on the chain where the PC said she might have been E shocked as a little child, then the auditor send her to HCO after the session to be declared illegal PC. Can you imagine the most ugly Q&A?
And the auditor was a good auditor, and a good person. But a good person has to “follow the rules”.
And this is where good people are weak at : DISOBEY
All those “good people” have followed the most SP orders for the “greatest good”.
SS who were killing jews were obeying Reich policies. Only 2,5 % were SP, the other were “good people”.
Kool aid drinkers who betrayed trust in following “church policies” are just low IQ homo-sapiens and are despicable. To have ever followed such rules at any time of our track is an utter shame.
I don’t think any of us can claim not to have “followed rules”, and have not accomplished the greatest ill on the name of the greatest good.
Sadly, scientology has followed all the path to become a totalitarian organisation.
Sorry typo:
“Flunk. This auditor forces pcs to go on when they don’t WANT to
and puts them in propitiation.” pg 738
Dear Marty
What a beautiful story!
You had me completely spellbound and when I paused it was only
to wipe off tears that blurred the screen.
Tears of grief about the pitch black operation Corporate Scientology
has become, tears of grief and incredulity about OT friends, possibly
reading Miscavige’s version and not spotting the glaring out-points.
But mainly they were tears of joy about who you are, about who we
Thetans are and what we’re doing here. And, of course, tears of joy
about the fact, that we’re still around to tell the story.
Thank you Marty, your account of what happened and the context
you so brightly set it in, is ART, and as such connects more dots and
on a deeper level than anything I’ve read so far.
And while Miscavige’s version makes no sense at all, yours totally
does and, needless to say, I believe every word of it.
Marcel Wenger
The violation of a PCs trust is probably the worst crime one can commit. It violates all that Scientology stands for. Few acts against the Dynamics make me feel as sick as that one does. There is no excuse and retribution is a time related phenomena – it’s only a matter of time Davey. If an honest person doesn’t put justice in on you a dishonest one surely will and that includes you too.
Marty, what amazes me more than anything is the fact that where this experience should be displayed as the miracle of auditing that should get the attention of everyone, instead DM is trying to use it to discredit you. This is a sign of desperation and clearly shows you are impinging.
There was a time when a FES was done, it was for finding the point to make the PC rolling, to find the bug, to get the PC winning. It was for the PC, and the PC could rest assured that the folder study would help him to win.
That is the original idea behind FESing.
Then it became just to find out-tech and correcting it for the sake of the tech, not the PC. The PC and the auditor were now serving the tech!
Then it was to find “ethics situation”.
The finding of an FES resulted first in a trip to ethics, with the justif that tech couldn’t be in if ethics was out. PC was guilty.
Then some repairs lists but at no time one would ask the PC what he thought of his case. Then he was audited fully at effect.
Then it became a political practice : Does the PC likes the management?
And if he didn’t, he then got lengthy sec checks.
Last step is to FES the folder to find something to attack the PC. A completely corrupted tech.
If it weren’t so ugly, it would be funny. David Miscavige is trying his hardest to destroy your reputation, Marty, yet all he is achieving is to build you up even higher.
To have suffered all the struggle and pain and loss that you did as a very young child, and yet to have become the man you are today – intelligent, capable, sane, a man who makes sacrifices in order to help others, resilient, tenacious, and above all a man who loves and who is well loved, by more people than you can count – that’s mighty impressive, Marty.
With every one of Miscavige’s guttersnipe revelations, you are more impressive and he is diminished.
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“Apparently, David Miscavige wants the world to know that when you are down, you are gonna stay down, Dianetics and Scientology be damned.”
The thing is, Marty, is that YOU ARE NOT DOWN!! You are way, way UP THERE, at a level of spirituality this extremely damaged being called David Miscavige will never achieve for many, many, many lifetimes.
Good for you, amigo.
Alex
Marty,
all this means just one thing:
the insanity of David Miscavige reached the final stage, because he knows that after loosing so many battles with you and the Indies he will inevitably lose “his war”.
I thought that by top mngmt casting off the use of the priest–penitent privilege, the Church could no longer claim auditing as being under that umbrella and therefore, making the Midget’s own pc files now subject to subpoena in subsequent lawsuits …
Yes he is loosing by the seconds .
Thank you Marthy for sharing and your courage and gunts to speak up
and to let others known what a traitor this DM is,not that its not known already.Sooner rather than later his game is over and he has to live with his betrayel’s and take them to his grave. You’d wonder what planet he thinks
he is on.
Martin,
Interesting numbers. 2 1/2% of the claimed Scientologists in UK identify themselves as being with the RCS….
But it’s still a much higher ratio than the percentage of the 10,000,000 claimed members that is reality as 2 1/2% of that is 250,000 and that is at between 5 and 10 times higher than reality. So, I guess you are fortunate in the UK to have the full 2 1/2%, or the PR’s there are really not on their game and have done the British thing and gone conservative on their lie (no holding back the BS here in the US….)
Well, if for arguments sake you assume the Bridge is built on a foundation of solid ground, he is 6 feet under beneath the Bridge.
Scientology works on many levels. But it falls short of all it promotes itself to be, do and have. But it is valuable as a self-betterment activity. It is NOT necessarily any better than many other disciplines and paths. But it thinks it is and that has been behind a lot of its problems.
Thank you both and you are welcome in Israel
Greta, You are an auditor and know. It does us no good to hang him inside out and out to dry. Would be nice but just wont work.
He will not dry. He is described clearly in SOS.
Love & hugs
Cece
PS How many pens did you say you need?
YHS: Thank you for your thoughts.
My comments were largely tongue in cheek and depending on the level of “study” one has done with alternative media my references to the Icke Reptiles my sarcasm would have been obvious.
Here’s my base point — people read the internet sites — and they say —
WOW — here’s Jon Rappaport and HE is telling everyone not to do psych drugs without knowing well duh … he had a long history as a scientologist.
So the possibility is that someone in PT reads these various websites which Greta posted the link when SHE spoke about the deaths at Newtown and I simply cautioned her about that and other website. In other words, people THINK that they are finding a wealth of independent thought when I’VE found that this thought is basically circular with people validating what THEY think.
I’m not going to argue conspiracy theories with you or anyone having listened to them for over 30 years. I’m not a beginner in these theories NOR with people who say “it’s not a theory, it’s true”
Fine. It may well be true.
I just choose, with my power of choice AKA free-will, to not focus my attention in that direction.
Certainly my intention wasn’t to make less of Greta or of you.
Love,
Christine
Zephyr/Greta — last night I stumbled upon an huge 68 page thread on ESMB about Sallydannce’s Story. I started it when I woke up around 1:30AM – read til 3:30 — then woke up again and finished it, getting next to no sleep. 🙂
If this is you, you write so well!! And I can’t tell you how much I can relate to your story. Mine having many many similarities. The fractured mind really rang true.
I’m glad you are well (if you are she) and happy now. Thank you for sharing such a personal journey.
Love,
Christine
Well Martin, they need LRH.
And they isn’t gonna have it either with that guy in charge. Let’s get a new leader.
Lets have an independent vote.
Oh i’m in charge of my own mind. Interesting….
Vote is won – 1 to 1.
Cece
You assume quite a bit Ronnie.
From your reply you must feel that I’m still involved with the church when in fact I haven’t had contact with it in over 3 years. And if I was “secretly reading this blog in fear and hiding” I sure as hell wouldn’t be posting on it.
I have already had experience with a very competent Independent auditor in the form of Life Repair and Method 1 auditing. This blog was one of many that was instrumental in my decision to cut ties with the “official” church and seek out people who, like me, feel that the tech works when applied for the pc.
As far as “proving my honor”, I never realized it was in question or needed justified. And when it comes to” polishing my credentials”, you assume I have any.
I am a boy amongst men (and women) on this blog.My experience and training on the bridge pale in comparison to the majority of the wonderful people who post here on a regular basis.The stories I have read here about what people have endured while in the church and the fact that they have overcome what was thrown at them and they still follow the tech is very inspirational to me.The reason I seldom post here is that a lot of what is discussed is beyond my training and/or experience while in the church and, as a result, isn’t real to me. If it were, you can rest assured I would contribute more to the discussions.
If it wasn’t for websites and blogs such as this one, I probably would have given up on reaching for spiritual freedom through Scientology.
But I am still reaching and I haven’t given up on my postulate to get fully trained and audited and I will continue to do so as the opportunities present themselves.
Trying to destroy a reputation by leaking a prenatal incident taken from a pc folder is probably the stupidest thing the Demented Midget has ever done, and God knows he’s done stupid things in the past twelve months. But this last one surely takes the cake.
In one fell swoop he managed to destroy the entire philosophy by telling the world at large and all scientologists that, yes, whatever you tell to your auditor(s), it will be used against you and that scientology doesn’t work anyway because engrams can’t really be erased – in other words, people can’t change for the better.
What a Season Finale!
So what’s his next move gonna be? Well, expect something even nuttier. As the sole writer of his own insane soap opera, DM will up the ante and take sociopathy to heights never before achieved.
Worldwide ratings are going to explode.
To be continued…
Scientology works . Man is not a stimulus response animal like the ‘church’ of scientology is trying to insinuate .
David Miscavige is the reincarnation of Terl .
MF, Good analysis on Kathy True. Kathy was at one time a nice person that I knew back in the 80’s-before she joined OSA. She has since become a total monster that will do ANYTHING to please dear leader.
Marty, I posted this on Tony’s blog yesterday. (See below) Your conclusion was my exact thought as well. “We(Scn Inc.) are the only ones who can help you, but if we can’t then we have the right to take whatever you said in your sessions and use it to destroy you”.
“Interesting that on one hand the church’s group CCHR stands up for the rights of ECT victims, but now the church is saying that being a victim of this abuse is a major fault leading to complete evilness and that this explains Marty’s destructive insanity. Good going OSA you have again shown your ability to contradict yourself. I don’t know how OSA people are able to walk any more. None of them have any toes left from all the foot shooting activities they are involved with these days.”
Agreed. If he was on a drug and suddenly stopped taking it or there was an abrupt change in dosage, the chance of violent thought and/or suicidal ideation is significantly increased. It is highly likely this is what led Kyle Brennan to kill himself after his Lexapro was hidden away by his DMbot father.
You can’t transcend an engram Calvin, but you can key out of one. I think it is remisss to say she was better off after ECT, when you can’t compare to how she would have been with auditing instead, or just left alone. Make no mistake, ECT is an engram at best.
lol
Brilliant 🙂
I just replied to freedumb:
What the hell has happened to this once important publication? What pray tell. If anyone besides Heir Miscavige is reading it I would be amazed. And no, I didn’t waste my time, the headlines are clear enough.
signed – with required email
—
Somehow I doubt any response.
Thank you for your form submission. A representative will be in contact with you shortly.
lol
Mike — Kathy True is truly a degraded being.
I just heard a few days ago that she approached someone when I was in San Antonio to help Wayne and Debbie and asked him to attempt to seduce Christie in my absence.
That is the sort of robot (hence DB) she has become.
The ends justifies the means. Nothing is out of bounds when you are dealing with “an SP.”
I have not heard of something like this since the old GO days.
Yes, Scientology can work! I had a similar experience with my mom. I described my birth to her and her state of mind and sounds in the room.She had three sons and my description of my birth was unique to my birth.
And those unique elements were confirmed by her.
The positive thing about stupid idiots is that they reveal themselves as such when they open their mouths (or post spiritually criminal activity as DM just did) and thus shine light on their idiocy for all to see. Thank you idiots for being so thoughtful!
Each dark deed is another shovel full dug under the feet of Dave.
Each pathetically orchestrated black ops a confession of his meglomania.
And the world, the press, the media has no doubt who the idiot is.
It is amazing how a false sense of importance ultimately undermines the deluded person with a distorted sense of reality expressed as DM did with your folders Marty.
Question: did you ever help reveal secrets of others folders in your day in fighting the SPs?
This is an honest question, motivated only by interest only.
As a never-in with a broad scientific education, I reserve the right to be skeptical about the Tech actually working. However, I have never and will never deny anyone the principle of “if it’s true for you, it’s true for you.” We Anons were told during the gear-up in 2008 by the Old Guard to not attack the Tech, because that was a non-starter. There were certain elements that were exceptions (the ashtrays, OTIII), but, in general, we left the Tech alone.
There was good reason to do so that has been borne out with time. I’m always impressed with the sincerity that the highly-trained Tech experts who are out express their belief that it works. They then exercise those beliefs to get results. I may not believe in auditing in the way that Standard Tech Scientologists do (I’ve had talk therapy, and I’ve had some wins off it, so I know that auditing works in a fashion), but I’d have no qualms whatsoever by grabbing the cans for Marty, Karen, Les, or the Lembergers, among the many other qualified auditors who post here. They might regard doing Book One or other intros on me as a bit of slumming, but I’m one hell of a case (it’s going to take a great auditor to withstand the nuclear-level of charge from me regarding my pre-adoption birth certificate alone).
The point is…well, I don’t know how much it means coming from an Anon, but I think that, in their own way, Indies are accomplishing a lot of good, with admirable, positive attitudes. Even the Antis at Tony’s are admiring Marty for his confessional, and are disgusted with the compromise of his auditing folders. We’ve seen it happen so many times before, but this is a new level of dirty pool on their part.
It’s also a sign. We’ve gone through the Long, Hot Summer. We’re in the middle of the Winter Of Discontent (which is about to get a lot worse for them courtesy of Lawrence Wright, Jenna Hill, and Marc Headley, along with the poor reviews Jack Reacher is getting). There’s only one place left to go.
Thermidor.
Except this time, it’s going to happen in reverse. First it’s the turn of Davey Robespierre. Then his Dantons and St. Justs, like Yager and Mithoff and Mike’s ex-wife. Then the nobility, the OTs and high-ranking Sea Org, will have to flee or switch sides to avoid Madame Guillotine. And then, the Bastille inside of Int Base gets liberated. This could happen as soon as this upcoming Thermidor. In fact, I’ll state it right now: August 2013, and Corporate Scientology starts its death agony. And I’ll be sitting like Madame Lafargue, knitting to the sound of snick-snick-snick.
Mike, what other things in the old GO days did you hear about?
It is my contention that all crimes against humanity, engaged in by Scientology, should see the healing light of day.
No timeline demarkation should arbitrate the revealing.
Wouldn’t you agree?
My apologies for where this post placed at. It was in reply to Ronnie’s reply to me above. Don’t know what happened.
Dear Dear Dear,voices from the past. Jane Kember
programs produced only attack handlings measured in feet in file cabinets.
Areas so enturbulated that the word scientology provoked rage from the most mild mannered casper milktoasts. The Staff I would string pull with
to sort out messy areas would say ” Kick them when they are down” because when else do have a chance?referring to Jane Kembers approach
to the sit. Nothing good came from this woman.
Thanks for the feedback calvin.
Here is an interesting video on pc data insecurity.
Thanks Oracle, I will dig it up and have a look.
I talked to someone recently who knew DM when he was 16 at St Hill-DM told him that auditing was for weaklings.It takes a strong person to audit out what Marty just ran. it takes a strong person to go into a marriage counseling to get off his/her witholds to his/her spouse.It takes real strength to confront ones case.The reward is to have all that was bothering you as-is into the ether and to emerge with even more strength
It takes a weak, sniveling little coward to attack and destroy those who are confronting their case. The penalty for those who do that is to get weaker and more snively, more disgusting and to eventually disappear under a rock somewhere.
Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie,
“Hey radar flyer. Yeah, you, secretly reading this blog in fear and hiding. Now’s your chance to get out and make a stand, while doing so will burnish your credentials and prove your honor. Don’t come to me with your hand outstretched when it’s no longer dangerous to do so. What makes your neck so precious?”
I am radar-flying for sure. I am certainly not in fear. I am learning. Tons. From your astute comments too Ronnie. Let us move along the awareness levels until we hit enlightenment. This means of course communication, perception, orientation, understanding, all vis-a-vis this subject and dilemma.
I unerstand your sentiments. I do. But in order for you to receive a new Independent, that person must move through all the confusions and earth-shattering new realizations to get there.
To demand that I arrive right now!, is like a stat push. Get the temperature up now! (When the thermostat is busted).
I will ask you to be the judge: let me have your email address and I will tell you why I am where I am.
Nevertheless Ronnie, I like your forthright style and your directness. You said what you felt and that is cool.
Framing Paulette Cooper with a false death threat. Planning on putting LSD in her toothpaste. Setting up Gabe Cazares in a false hit and run. You can read about these and others all over the internet. Knock yourself out if you are interested in it. Not sure what use it has to you, its all in documents seized by the FBI in 1977.
Thanx for answering my question last night Mike. You are a gentleman. I heard a rumor that Tommy Davis has also blown. Is that true?
This is staggering … who is this young man?
Mike, I’d say she’s managed to hit a new level of low life below Degraded Being: “Degraded Floor Mop Unfit for any but the Filthiest Floors.” A complete disgrace as a human being.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I’m always happy to read your posts.
Hello Anon.
This was in fact a good advice.
Anons would have more chances to free people from the cult with the documentation of real-time-events, DM abuses, DM cover-ups and such instead of attacking the tech, LRH or the good-will of Scientologists.
I spoke to Anons in Germany and I was amazed about the lack of differentiation between Scientology and the Scientology Organization.
A=A=A is how the reactive mind works. And Scientologists won’t buy entheta about LRH and/or his tech (unless they really were abused and lost faith in the tech or the real objectives of Scientology).
There are several subjects the Anons could talk or write about (in germany they use Flyers for example) which would make Scientologists listen/read.
But never if you just spread entheta over the place.
Use truth instead – acceptable truth. A gradient.
My concern with Anons is, I don’t understand what they really try to do?
A – help people to open their eyes?
B – stop the abuses?
C – break the monopoly of Scientology, Inc?
D – bring Miscavige to justice?
E – destroy Scientology completely?
Think about it.
Scientology, after all, is a religion for many (in and outside the Cult).
For me it is a Spiritual Philosophy and a Route to Enlightenment.
For others it may be something else.
From what you write I can see you’re a person with good intentions.
Pick up the cans and find out more.
Find an Independent Auditor and he’ll understand why you protested in the first place.
All best,
SKM
Well said, Ingrid.
Love,
SKM
Thanks for your beautiful post. It’s always great to hear from old timers who know and remember the participants from the 50s and 60s.
Whatever reasons ‘Looking 4 Myself’ has for using an alias, they’re probably different than mine. The point is, I don’t know his or her situation and neither do you, but I do know this – if your attitude dissuades even one lurker from sticking another toe in the water and joining the conversation here, you will have done that person a disservice. And for that matter, the rest of us too, who will never get to hear that individual’s contribution.
I was thinking Brown Limpur. Maybe the worst parts of each?
Don’t ou think it’s to prevent them from leaving, rather than for protection?
I’m totally behind what you’re saying, AR, I just revealed
my astonishment at how the young lady has pulled thru!
Perhaps you may understand what I’m attempting to convey to you if you were able to directly observe the change for yourself. I certainly would not have believed
it possible, beforehand! A miracle? Perhaps.
Thanks for your ack, gow— it is appreciated.
Looking4Myself,
If you’ve been disconnected from the church for three years, and have continued doing the Bridge in the Independent field, why would you think I was speaking to you? I wasn’t.
No, I was speaking to those who are pretending to be allies of the Independents while still maintaining their membership in the corporate church. Such people claim to understand the depth and breadth of what’s wrong with the church, yet they’re unwilling to do what the Code of Honor and the Doubt Formula should compel any person to do – publicly disconnect from that insidious evil.
I just don’t appreciate cowardice or unworthiness of character in anyone, despite some people’s justifications for such personal inadequacy. Non confront of evil simply empowers evil, and leads to greater and more entrenched destruction of individuals. Every genocidal dictator in history has been enabled by those who refused to do what was right when it really mattered.
In our case, the price for choosing the honorable path is far less than those who’ve confronted similar evils in the past. By orders of magnitude. No one is going to picked up by the SS and thrown into a concentration camp or gulag, or shot at dawn, for daring to oppose the evil in the CofS. Yes, some may suffer the pain of temporary disconnection from friends and family (like I have). Some may lose business associates and contacts (like I have).
And some may even wind up with private investigators tailing them, their mail ransacked, third partied to neighbors, websites published to destroy their reputations, denied one last look at their dead child, ‘squirrel busters’ at their front door, hidden cameras pointed at their house 24/7, and the contents of their pc folders published in Freedumb Magazine.
What makes my neck so precious in the company of such honorable people? I consider it a privilege to stand in the light of day, shoulder to shoulder with such courageous heroes to humanity.
Thanks Mike, I think it is useful for everyone. The more exposition the better in my mind. Also who oked, approved and orchestrated. Names and how far up does it go.
I met an old Scientology friend of mine last night that has no idea of what has been going on. I told her about Clambake for starters.
As an ex-Scientologist who supported and gave money to this organisation, I feel a bit responsible. People joined the Sea Org and many became Scientologists through me.
I have nothing or no one to protect. Clean hands make a happy life.
I am motivated to through some soap into the mix.
Pumice works great.
His name is listed in the comments section of that video. This video is further proof why complaints about misuse of confidential info need to be made to the California Attorney General. Here is the link for the complaint form, http://oag.ca.gov/charities. Anyone who is still getting audited by the CoS needs to see this video.
Mike Rinder,
You are correct. Somewhere, when I was doing my Grades in the early ’70s, on the subject of O/Ws, I disclosed that at the age of 16 (1948) I, with other guys stole a car for a joy ride and ended up in a juvenile detention center. In 1985, while married to Maude, who was one of David mayo’s main contributors, I was denounced to the INS as dangerous car thief, illegal immigrant, who had escaped from jail after being convicted of grand theft auto. None of the information was true, except the joy ride I disclosed in the “sanctity” of confessional. So the practice of using confessional information to attack unwanted people was happening in the late 80’s, after Miscavige took over control. I never witness GO actions such as what Miscavige is doing, but I can attest to the fact that Miscavige has been practicing breach of confessional confidentiality since at least 1985.
However this time, with his latest blatant action against Marty, he has announced to the whole world that Scientology auditing is untrustworthy because anything you say in the “sanctity of confessional” can and will be used against you if you happen to disagree with any of the “Church”‘s methods.
This really reminds me of the Japanese Kamikazes. David Miscavige has now sent his “Church” and himself on a real Kamikaze mission. The ultimate foot bullet.
What a pitiful idiot!!
Alex
After a lifetime of Scientology I’m still amazed by the level of “nuclear-level of charge” around.
Dig in there.
ML/A
correction: “throw some soap into the mix”
Denounced by the Church of scientology in an “anonymous” tip to the INS.
But not so anonymous because the INS agents told me where the tip came from.
Alex
Steve,
I think you might have given her more credit than is due. What makes you think she is actually a human being? I see no evidence to support that and her actions certainly don’t.
Hey Kathy, you worthless piece of shit, how many OTs on sec checks have you falsely evaluated today? How many have you successfully caved in resulting in an up statistic for the International Asshole Society?
Any families destroyed or marriages trashed?
Tony, this video was obviously filmed in North Texas. Most likely the old Dallas org on Buckner Blvd in Dallas. I clearly heard the radio in the background announcing “660 KSKY”. That’s a station that broadcasts in the Dallas – Ft Worth area.
My wife just confirmed that after watching the video. She knew that place well. I have no idea who the dickwad in the video is, though. What an asshole!
Karen
Thank you for pointing out this known but little acknowledged fact. The Church of Scientology under David Miscavige does not make OT’s. It makes “Paper OT’s” whose Dynamics are in fact, INVERTED.
Knowing what you know, it must be painful for you to see the Technology of Dianetics and Scientology debauched in this manner.
I can think of nothing more offensive to a being such as you. Yet we soldier on…
Teddy — you are welcome.
Yes, Tommy and Jessica parted ways with Dear Leader.
They live in a new highrise apartment building in Austin, Texas. They are not talking to anyone. They clearly “had enough” of the crap — as there are NOT going back — they don’t have the courage to speak out and try to help others. Not too surprising with regard to Tommy, but a little surprising for Jessica to have turned into such a wimp (though anyone who survives cancer I think deserves some space and deference no matter what else is happening).
I wonder how they would feel if they heard what DM is saying about them now? Of course he blames them as the “Who’s” for all sorts of things they did based on his explicit and direct-to-their-face orders. It’s his standard modus operandi.
Outstanding products, Jimmy. I bow to you, Sir.
You exemplify in your actions the eternal nature of beings and the subject of knowing how to know. Thank you for taking on the mantle of Qual Consultant to Independent Scientologists and wearing it so well. In this, you too are the anvil upon which all hammers break.
Scott — I call them “status OT’s”.
They are in the same mold as the IAS/Building donators “statuses”. If you have enough money, you can be endowed with a meaningless status (if you don’t have plenty of money you can’t even make it up the circular bridge in the RCS to get a Clear Cert, let alone “OT”).
Alex,
Yeah, you told me about this. It’s sick.
That was post-GO — though that operation was run by Warren McShane, ex-GO B1 NY in RTC.
Now “President RTC”.
Ya I had one… Christopher Cristodolu. Not one auditor in front of me for a sec check – but 5?
OK well one ‘auditor’ and the CO’s Comm, ED Int and a few others. Gross!!!
I didn’t take it to well.
They all sent me to the RPF. Right the hour b4, I’d just done my OCA for the OT levels!
I was ‘clean as a whistle’ and there I went. Down in the Dunjon to the PAC Basement.
It’s was total OK with me. I was right there with the best of the best.
I sent “Orders Query Of’ to all the orders to return back to post.
I was very happily content to learn to read an e-meter.
We had the ‘ol Mark 5s in those days.
My PC and I had great wins.
Cece
So true Les. It was true at the Flag Land Base. Especially if money came up in the session. The C/S would brief the regges . I recall a time it came up that one p.c. scammed a drug dealer and stashed the money. He sold the drugs, it was a boatload too. Literally. And made off with the money. The C/S briefed the regges about the stash of cash. Guess where the drug money ended up? In the IAS bank account.
I like you Ingrid!!
Such religiosity and honor given these sacred documents….
Yah, he didn’t always have it right but he tried. Gotta give it to him for that Oracle.
Cece
Well that is a crime. Oracle.
Thanks for being here.
Cece
Well then I guess I misunderstood your post. It seemed the last paragraph of your reply was directed at me and was non sequitur to the topic of discussion or anything I said. But after re-reading your post,I can now see how it ties in to what you were saying.
Sorry about that.
It is noteworthy that parishioners that are still in the church seem to forget points 9 and 10 of the Code of Honor when the heat is on. However, I feel more contempt for upper management who knowingly violate those tenets and maintain the status quo perpetrated by one Mr. Miscarriage.
Mike: I’m willing to cut both of them a great deal of slack. Knowing the inner workings of OSA, the various capers pulled on others who have left and the PC data dredged up from private sessions it is VERY FEW who are willing to come forward KNOWING that everything they have ever said plus more is going to see the light of day.
Some on this board perhaps are luckier than others — and have led a rather transparent and transgression free life. I’m not being facetious here.
However, I for one am not one of them 🙂 — the idea of having the things I’ve shared in private, that took courage to divulge and have been ashamed and embarrassed about, splattered all over the internet — well — it gives the hardiest pause, I believe.
I’ve found not everyone has the same magnitude of overts ALTHOUGH all are forgivable ultimately.
I am amazed that Marty knowing full well what was going to hail down on him and his family – has persisted and come forward so freely.
I don’t think we can expect the same level of confront and courage from everyone; regardless what their post was. We should just be concerned about ourselves and how we conduct our own lives. I’m sure you agree.
IMHO
Love,
Christine
G.O.W., see my clarification/expansion on that comment downthread. I wasn’t talking about people like you and Looking4Myself, who have seen the light and left the cult.
One more thing — there are a few people that I wish VERY much would come forward as they could be extremely helpful in exposing dm; and after I’ve said my peace/piece about why they should … and they haven’t – I’m backing up.
After all — everyone should be free to move forward to decompress and the come forward OR not without another group of peer pressure.
Let’s not become what we left.
And if we don’t — they we will have truly broken a pattern. Usually the revolutionaries become worse than the dictators etc etc (we aren’t revolutionaries but I’m sure you can get my drift)
Love,
Christine
Aeolus, my comment was directed at those who know the facts about the church, yet who’ve chosen to remain in the cult, while pretending to be allies to those who’ve publicly disconnected. I understand that some people have privately disavowed and disconnected from the church. My beef is not with them.
Well let me see if I can put that on my BP.
Cece
Glee is all I see.
Christine — I agree. Though I consider Tommy to be in a special category. He clearly no longer wishes to participate as a monkey for Miscavige the organ grinder. So he KNOWS there is a lot wrong, and KNOWS he has said things that are not true (specifically concerning disconnection). Those things affected a LOT of people. He was not just a “backlines” person who only influenced a few people in his immediate sphere. RHIP RHIP — rank has it privileges, rank has its responsibilities. He is one of those that cannot just disappear into his “own life” as karma is going to work its magic. He can never be truly happy until he has done something to make amends for what he did.
Of course, I can do nothing about it. It has to be his decision. But that is my view.
The Violation of a PCs trust is probably the worst crime one can commit. It violates all that Scientology stands for.
Yes – Treason after Trust!
“Chicago O’Hare airport”
“And the auditor was a good auditor, and a good person. But a good person has to “follow the rules”.”
Hear, hear!
Well OK Christine, This is the session.
Its gonna all be OK. Thanks for letting us know. The truth must get out.
Thank you for being there and communicating. Hugs.
Cece
Mike — believe me I agree. Until he comes forward he will never “burn up his bad karma” — but he never struck me as someone with a lot of courage and guts. But we all know plenty of people who prefer to live a life of quiet desperation than confront their own demons.
Rare is the person, who born with a silver spoon – whose parental roles enable the person to attain high position ACTUALLY becomes someone with courage and conviction. (like Tommy)
It’s the rocks and shoals that helps us become who we are. OR the sand irritating the oyster that creates the pearl.
I tend to have emotional growth when my life has been challenged and I have to confront, feel my emotions clearly and move forward. My friends provide solace but not per se, growth.
Tommy will remain an emotionally stunted man until he reaches out.
Perhaps someone he’ll have the courage just to call you and start a dialogue. That would be great for him. You’d be a perfect mentor for him towards a new life.
Love,
Christine
Every Anon has his or her reason Why They Protest. I think you’ll find that the E/P for all Anons in regard to that is your reasons A, B, and D. Reason C didn’t become feasible until the Indie movement started to pick up steam; there were serious arguments in 2008 among Chanology participants on what to do about the Freezone. And that leads to E. There are a number of Anons who feel that Scientology is inherently destructive as a philosophy. There are some who will live and let live. I’m mostly one of the latter. If you’re gaining wins and following the basic proscription, “do no harm”, I see no reason to take that away from you.
As I said, I’d like to be audited for one session by one of the great Indie auditors, just to see what it can accomplish. It would make me better understand the good intentions behind the Tech. Pursuing it beyond auditing, though…I can see two deal-breakers on a fundamental level in my particular instance. One is a particular rundown, the other a word used by LRH in an early writing.
Nei-ei-ei-eigh!! [pawing the ground]
Mike,
The Church of Miscavige is the Amway of religion. And it can’t even clean anything – except cleans, of course.
It is noteworthy that parishioners that are still in the church seem to forget points 9 and 10 of the Code of Honor when the heat is on. However, I feel more contempt for upper management who knowingly violate those tenets and maintain the status quo perpetrated by one Mr. Miscarriage.
That’s exactly what I’m talking about.
In my estimation, the true test of a person’s honor comes at the point at which they see the truth of what’s being perpetrated in the name of LRH and the tech. Do they, at that point, step back and determine the real condition of the group they’ve supported for so long, and in so doing, withdraw all allegiance and support for an activity that no longer bears any resemblance to the one which they joined? Do they apply the Doubt Formula and publicly announce where their loyalty now lies, to both sides, despite the danger?
Or do they shut down and attempt to not know what they most certainly do know? Do they not-is what they’ve witnessed, or seek to justify the evils they’ve seen or experienced? Or do they attempt to inhabit some ludicrous, middle-of-the-road, never-never land, where they freely mingle with more honorable people while hiding their true identities, all the while, sitting in the audience and clapping on cue for Dear Leader?
I’m not trying to make a federal case out of this. Perhaps I’ve just got by-passed charge on cowardice and betrayal by others in circumstances such as these.
Mike,
There is no one more qualified than you to make this judgement.
Thanks Marty for communicating this. You have support from all corners of the world for the work you do.
Hello Espiando,
thanks for your respond.
I wish you good luck on your journey.
Regards,
SKM
And mabye just maybe, some hot shot investigative journalist that reads this blog will get a fire in the belly and research who, what and where created, orchestrated, approved the wishing of harm on Scientology’s critics.
That is my hope and prayer. Who created this hateful violent approach to “bringing and end to war and criminality on this planet.”
This story will be told. The truth will come out. Bet on it!
The 3rd characteristic of the Antisocial personality as described by LRH:
3. The antisocial personality alters, to worsen, communication when he or she relays a message or news. Good news is stopped and only bad news, often embellished, is passed along.
Such a person also pretends to pass on “bad news” which is in actual fact invented.
Marty,
I just read the article as I’ve been off doing things.
Miscavige’s actions are sickening, revolting and disgusting.
As much as I was repulsed by this I can’t say I was surprised.
There are no depths to which this little pervert will not sink.
I have learned a great deal about the subject of integrity from you and now I have learned more about it.
I have as well learned a bit about the subject of confront (naturally, integrity and confront go hand in hand).
I congratulate you on your freedom from all the things the dwarf thinks should be your traps.
He doesn’t get it and he most likely never will.
As Rinder once said, (well, more than once actually!) It sucks to be Miscavige.
Dave, the sound you hear is the toilet flushing and it was your hand that pulled the plunger.
Bye Dave…
If you look at these notes he wrote, compared to what people are doing to p.c.s today , you can see how far off the rails they are. Forcing a p.c. to go on when they do not want to is taboo according to Hubbard. There is a reference on it in the very elementary HQS pack! It ONLY sets the pc up for a HEAVY loss! It’s on HQS! HCOB 16 October 1971 Revised from 11 May 1969. FORCING A PC. “There is NO excuse for it”. L.R.H.
One auditor did this to my kid for HOURS. (Blew him off the bridge) . It is done to staff and pcs now in the official CofS on a daily basis! When I was going up the bridge, and thankfully the lower bridge to Clear was before DM took over, all you had to say is, “No, I don’t like the room. No, I don’t want you to audit me. No, I am not running this. Tell the C/S I said F**k You.” And the session was ended. That was when people still CARED about the CUSTOMER!
If you have people on tech lines that can not think with the simple HQS course material you have a very bad situation!
How many Sea Org personnel does it require to go to a Starbucks for a cup of coffee?
answer: 23
1 to originate the cycle.
2 more to accompany
1 to approve the CSW
3 to cover the posts of those going for break
1 to alert security
1 security personnel to watch the cameras
1 security to write a report
1 communicator to deliver the write up to OSA
1 OSA staff to read report
1 sec checker to debrief the coffee venturists
1 c/s to handle the folder review
1 folder page
1 D of P
6 ethics officers (2 for each Starbucks coffee consumer)
1 Kathy True to dehumanize and dismember for being so downstat as to actually want to take a break from post.
And thank you for being here! As soon as you mentioned “Jenny Linson” I had the utmost respect for what you have lived through.
The youtube video appears to be about 3 years old. The following was posted in the youtube comments shortly after it was uploaded 3 years ago:
A little backstory for you.
The guy in this video, Robert Wallace, was a staff member until March 2009. He dumped all of his videos on his cell phone onto YouTube channel RobertWallace777 (now closed) without a thought, with this one included. He was responsible for sorting the files.
His former channel contained some Scientology stuff, including inside the Org, him taking the purif in a sauna, and a donation drive. He’s since closed his channel, and remerged as RobertMichaelWallace.
That was my very first course in Scientology. Two months after I walked into the Org I was auditing on my Dianetic Internship. What great wins and speed of particle flow!
The answer to your game of Clue is: L. Ron Hubbard, on the Apollo, with the Fair Game Policy.
Brian, there’s no need to search for the truth. It’s all in LRH’s policy letters. He created the policies. He created Fair Game (and only cancelled the use of the name, not the nuts and bolts of the policy). He created the Guardian’s Office. He ultimately approved the operations against Paulette Cooper. He ultimately approved the operations against Gabe Cazares. He ultimately approved the Snow White infiltrations. He provided the blueprint. DM took it to extremes.
On his best day! I’m sure he has not had one of those for some time!!!
Dear Marty,
I cannot add to the eloquent words of many who have already expressed their thoughts in response to your post. I do wish to add my hugs and admiration. You are an amazing man.
Nancy
Hi Martin This is off topic too – a friend of mine is trying to get a repayment from AOSH UK For some months. This person thinks you might have more info on this. would you mid emailing me at nomoresilent@hushmail.com thanks, Heather R.
Yup, you got me there.
Back to your original question Marty, “Does Scientology Work?”
Well not according to the Chairman of the Board!
Oh the utter sweet irony.
Best of luck to you. As the auditor always asks when you complete an action, “would you like someone else to experience the gains you have experienced?”. I say YES! I would like the whole world to really get in session.
Steve, I would like to know if you or anyone here recall David Miscavige ever getting a sec check at the Int base? Any auditing? If so when and what it was? Hasn’t that man been blown off the bridge for over two decades?
I’ve got one. I wonder if he copyright has expired……..
Mike,
What about Cindy?
By the sounds of your description of where Jessica & Tommy are living it sounds like it might be with Cindy.
And, while I was FSM’ing to the Palo Alto Mission where Joe & Cindy were Mission holders, Cindy conveyed she was bringing Jessica to Stanford Hospital to be treated for Leukemia, this was in the mid 90’s, is that the cancer you’re referring to or was there an exacerbation of the previous?
Just curious, as maybe there’s hope for our son (Randy’s son, my step-son) who is now ED of the Palo Alto Mission as really looked-up to the Feshbach’s!!!
ML, Midge
Midge
I nominate this Best Post of the Day!!!
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
Isn’t that what Darth Midget says about everyone who flees from his suppression – that they are going to spend “Eternity as a rock” ?
I wonder whether (somewhere deep down inside) this is where he sees himself going and is absolutely terrified of it.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
First thing I want to say is this: David Miscavige is afraid. So afraid that he is once again proving a fact that he DOES go into PC folders to take info and make it public. So afraid that this “indie” thing is really taking off. I have never been in Scientology and I as an outsider can see that. DM has also, in doing making public this latest about Marty’s personal folder info in a very personal auditing session, said outright that Scientology does not work. If the organization had in it’s midst a man who had after decades risen to the point of being Inspector General for the organization, the number two position in the whole organization…and that man was “not fixable” then what does that say about Scientology Mr. Miscavige?? In his zealousness to bring Marty down he has once again shot himself in the foot, as he has come out in black and white and said “this does not work”. It shows his true intention, which is not Scientology. The only thing important to David Miscavige is money and servants that must bend to his psychotic will. I have seen this in the years I have been following this blog and the stories of others who have gotten out from under DM’s thumb, Miscavige is afraid, and it seems he does off the mental cliff a little more with every positive move forward Marty and the Indie movement make.
Now, secondly: I have really liked the latest blogs Marty has written. And again, I am not a Scientologist. But, I related very much to what has been said in the last 4 or so blogs and it has made me think alot. That maybe I have wasted alot of time being part of the wrong thing. I believe in past lives, always have. But I have never put much thought in to “why” am I here, you know? Anyways, the light may be coming on? Thanks 🙂
Midge — Not sure if they are living with Cindy or have two apartments in the same building or just both live in Austin. If you know Cindy’s address email it to me and I will tell you whether it is the same address as Tommy and Jessica. Jessica’s cancer was reportedly a recurrence of what she had earlier suffered.
Not sure where you get your information from that LRH approved operations against Paulette Cooper or Gabe Cazares? Or are you asserting this based on the logic of “it was his organization so therefore he knew”?
Nice win Randy!! So true !
Mike, wow sorry to hear about this, sick fuck. It doesn’t get any lower than this, eh?
Phil, good notice yes you are right nothing surprises me these days other than the guy that was made to lick the bathroom floor for half an hour. And this comes from one who was on the RPF 5 times who scrubbed toilets with a toothbrush.
Anyway, agree it is bye bye time for Dear Leader.
Disgusted too but not surprised. I heard the same violation of pc folder on Debbie Cook. When a religion betrays confidential and intimate datas she commits a very high crime. COS has became the less safe religion on earth.
“I guess they are claiming that you were insane before you were in the Sea Org (due to your mother) and then sane when you were IN the Sea Org until some point when you went insane again and now have fully reverted to “native state”? It defies logic.”
It makes sense if you take the position that insane people can only become, and stay, sane while within (and fully and uncritically committed to) the organization. However, I can’t see how it help the Church’s cause, or otherwise make the organization seem attractive, in any way. Because the take-away from that is that the only way to remain sane is to be dependent on the organization. One of the major pro-Scientology (not just org, but overall philosophy) lines is that Scientology helps to free people. Becoming dependent on an organization is not freedom.
If what the Church is saying is that Scientology doesn’t work on certain people: well, if I’m not mistaken (and I may be), it’s always said that it doesn’t work on SPs/anti-social personalities/sociopaths. Okay, fine, but it’s obvious that if this is the case, and if the Church is correct about Marty being this super-SP* who was somehow hiding his true nature all those years while helming critical functions of the entire Church, the philosophy is BREATHTAKINGLY INCOMPETENT because it was unable to identify him earlier.
In any case, the Church can only lose by the action it just took against Marty: it’s either a psychological-slavery mechanism, or it’s incompetent.
I’d say both, actually.
* Megamind: Oh, you’re a villain all right. Just not a super one.
Titan: Oh yeah? What’s the difference?
Megamind: Presentation!
— “Megamind”
I recall something written by LRH where he said that the shock sometimes jolted the person out of the stuck point on his/her track and, thus, the apparency of improvement through ECT. 22% apparently improve no matter what you do, so with ECT, that is not very good odds.
Once a copywriter always a copywriter. That’s using your talents to obtain your freedom.
Steve, The truth is, whatever “out quals” are , (Who by the way thought of them for the Int Base, I wonder? Has anyone seen a reference?) “Out Quals” are a list of issues everyone in the Sea Org agrees can not be resolved with Scientology and Dianetics. As a public you are told over over and over that Scientology can handle anything. It can be resolved with Scientology. Having done L12, I believe this true today. Thinking, that you sign a billion year contract as this this the answer to the world’s ills. EVERY ill. Then you arrive in the Sea Org to find out, there are peop[le “out qualed for : 1. The Int Base. 2. The Flag Land Base. 3. The Freewinds. 4. Pacific Area Coomand. 5. The OT levels.
I can understand the issues with the LSD because I have known people that took a lot of it that are not too stable mentally. When you consider possible flashbacks etc. it could be a liability.
But the rest? How fair is it to get someone in, knowing they will never be allowed on the OT levels? How fair is it to recruit someone in the Sea Org and then tell them they can not be trusted in certain places?
There were people who came to the Freewinds to do OT8 and their spouse was not allowed to join them. There were people who came to the ship for an event and their spouse was not allowed to join them. Children were flat out outlawed and some people said they would not go to do OT8 if their kids were not allowed on the ship! A FUCKING CRUISE SHIP! There were people who were sold accommodations for their kids and the kids were not allowed to use them! Damn that fucking ship was worshiped like a holy temple. A stupid fucking boat!
They could go on any other ship in the WORLD unless it was military, but they could not go on the Freewinds. That musty smelling fourth rate “cruiseship” was too holy for some Scientologists! There were people that arrived for events that were kicked off within hours over some perceived “out qual”. Meanwhile they were keeping staff in holding cells there! Prisoners! Scientologists were out qualed to visit a prison? If you have been on cruiseships or yachts or even to boat shows you know how creepy fourth rate the Freewinds was. Filthy carpets, should have been hardwoods. Tacky rooms. It could have been comfortable and welcoming and made into a great “comfy” retreat. They couldn’t even get that right. They thought this was air force 1!
There were staff that were not qualed for CMO! How qualified do you have to be to scream at people and ser fac on them?
There were people “qualified” to be on that ship that should not have been on that ship because they got sea sick! I recall during one event, the first anniversary of the maiden voyage in 1989 I think it was, we hit a BIG storm. I had lived on a boat at the N.Y.C boat basin for years and had sailed, so I was starving. I was walking down the hallway and an OT8 was laying on the floor of the cabin with his head hung over the molding to the shower so sick he was chanting, “Kill me, somebody kill me.” I walked into the dining room for the public and there was thousands of dollars of food sitting at the buffet. I was the only person there, so I ate. Everyone else was too sick to get off the floor.
And the point is about these “quals”, and “out quals” , I just wish for once the Church of Scientology would issue a statement about this.
“We do not believe Scientology can handle ____________”
“We admit it. So if you have these issues, go to someone else.”
“We do not believe if you sign a one billion year contract and come in on the same terms as everyone else, that you are really here on the same terms as everyone else. We will discriminate against you if you have any of the following issues____________________.”
“You will be pushed back and scorned by this entire community if you have any of these issues __________________________.”
“You will be publicly humiliated and scorned and ridiculed by the Int execs and particularly David Miscavige if you have ever done one of the below ________________________”
Get Real!
Yours is a fair view, sir. And I especially enjoy the RHIP, because that is something Tommy will definitely not be able to easily associate as a ‘suppressive comment’.
Personally I hope that Tommy gets some time to get a few PC’s through their Grades before he exits the decks, though. That’d be nice to know more about some day.
I’d very happily take you in session. Before I do though, lets get this straight:
The word used by LRH in an early writing .. what is it?
What is the rundown you’re unhappy with?
I truly want to know.
But I encourage you to go for Marty. He is among the best we’ve got right now, and it shows. I couldn’t imagine a better scenario for Marty next year than to have lots of new PC’s lined up for session. Of course, I may be over-stepping things, but hey, thats a reality I’m personally willing to be responsible for, also ..
There are good intentions behind the Tech. This is the reason why it is stated loud and clearly, throughout all training/regimen documentation, that if it is working, and you are getting good results, then you are accomplishing the purposes of the Tech, but if you are not getting good results, something is wrong, and non-standard Tech is going on. It was only incorporated into Scientology doctrine because it *worked* in the first place. Yes, this applies also to Fair Game: It *works*. In my case I saw it many times at many drug-infested Orgs during the 70’s and 80’s, it really was necessary to disconnect the PC’s from their pushers/pimps/controllers/doms/&etc. It worked: because the PC wanted improvement.
Good intentions, work. It takes a *lot* of effort to make Bad intentions produce .. anything .. by comparison.
It is really that simple, the difference, to an Auditor: is the PC improving, per their own purposes, in life? If I take you in session, I’m going to be your Auditor: my intentions will be nothing but good for you, as my PC.
You’re going to define that good, and I will help. There are many, many grades by which good in your own personal life can be found, and enhanced .. those grades are up to you to discuss, or not, with an Auditor you trust.
Because it is simply like this: Nothing but good intentions will get the PC through the session, if it is based on LRH Tech, and that is what the Auditor is there for, in the first place: to get the good, LRH Tech, applied.
And LRH tech is not just good, but great. In fact, its awesome. Get it done, get through the program as per LRH description, and .. WOW.
We will get results.
“”I spoke to Anons in Germany and I was amazed about the lack of differentiation between Scientology and the Scientology Organization.””
I too have been struggling with this issue greatly in certain realms, that it is near impossible to get people to make this differentiation, and I have really come to the conclusion that, while it is definitely a total failure of the PR apparatus of Scientology (the zeitgeist), its not something inherent to Scientology, itself. A lot of people have a very hard time differentiating between Football Clubs, for example, ‘glomming’ everything into one big generalization of the subject.. its a social, realtime, basis of operation for a lot of media-fed people who, alas, no longer read books but are driven instead, mostly, to read the words on the screen.
However, what I find most intriguing is the fact that the current battle with Miscavige and the forces of Usurption in the Corporate Scientology Cataclysm represents a means by which, finally, the Scientology zeitgeist can *make* the difference. When Miscavige goes down in flames, Scientologists of all flavours will need to be prepared to step immediately forward, present results, and demonstrate the difference between the Overt act of DM&Co., and the positive acts of (All)Auditors, (Everywhere). We’ll need, by then, quite something in place to help propagate this de-association/enlightenment to the Subject of Scientology, and the difference between it .. and the Scientology Corporate Cataclysm.
See where I’m going with this? Its not a problem for Scientology, but rather: a solution.
How fair is it to get someone in the Sea Org, the same pay, the same conditions, all the same terms as everyone else, and then say, “We don’t really trust you unless you are way over here.”
Not qualified for “volunteer work”? Really? What “volunteer” is hyper qualified? LEGAL LOOP HOLE.
This goes beyond the ridiculous. This goes beyond what is fair, just and honest. I’m qualified to run around the White House and I am not qualified to sit in a trailer in the desert in no man’s land out in the desert in California and get abused like all the other people in the hole?
This madness violates “penalties and rewards” doctrines laid down in the ethics book.
Did you know there were staff “especially chosen” to go to the Int Base as staff and they flat out refused to go? Yes, I saw that happen too.
You know who shouldn’t be qualified to be at the Int Base? Sociopaths.
Who is surviving at the Int Base? Sociopaths. That is who is qualified to be at the Int Base. Sociopaths. David, the shrinks have figured you out and put you on a map. It is only a few blind Scientologists unwilling to be inconvenienced ,standing by you. Just make sure you keep a roof over their head, the bedding space be it ground or not, some food to keep them alive.
I see your inheritance David. I feel for you. You must have gotten the most rotten deal of anyone in this theater. This magic recoiled on you like a freshwater fish tossed into the ocean. It was never meant to be in your hands. You have hidden the Scientology like a piece of stolen merchandise. I watched you bury it in the vaults like some stolen treasure! You can’t even use it to help yourself. You devalued it. So typical. So ordinary. You only get more depressing, more ordinary, and more disappointing as the days go by. The most attention you get these days comes from your enemies! Hubbard shared a simple process to rise above the likes of you. HCOB 23 Feb 61 SOMETHING WORSE THAN . (You are an injured body part that is not recovering) Use of process: This process is used when nothing else seems to be working. Procedure: “Tell me something worse than ______________” Even if someone looks at it like this, you aren’t even such a bad boy. A pampered diva sucking off some church with a bad temper prone to domestic abuse sucking up to a movie star. A man a master at “pretense”. How ordinary. The 20 year old kid in Connecticut on psych drugs has out created you as a bad boy. You are an ordinary downstat on both sides of the fence.
“First thing I want to say is this: David Miscavige is afraid. So afraid that he is once again proving a fact that he DOES go into PC folders to take info and make it public. So afraid that this “indie” thing is really taking off. I have never been in Scientology and I as an outsider can see that.”
Thank you T.!
Great post, with such clarity of thought and reasoning.
Wish you all the best in your spiritual quest. – Karola
I escaped from the police station in the East Village at 14. I was arrested and taken there. I said I had to go to the ladies room. A policewoman took me there. There was a long line of stalls. I went to the very last one and closed the door and she stood in front of it. I sat on the toilet and slipped my feet out of my boots, which she could see looking under the door. Leaving my boots there for her to see, led her to believe my feet were still there, and so was I. I however, was crawling under the other stalls towards the bathroom door. I got out and ran through the lobby and hit the street. I knew how to go into an apartment building , go up to the top floor, and run across rooftops in the East Village. I did hear her little heels going “click click click” for a minute. Then she was behind me. After moving about four blocks in under ten minutes via roof tops, I sat down on some corner and bummed a smoke. The first thing that came to my mind was that she was fucked at work. I remember running this as the first time I was pan determined. After fifteen minutes of worrying about her I bummed some money and went to the phone booth. I called the police station and offered her a deal. They had picked me up as a “runaway” and were waiting for a bus to come take me to juvenile hall in the South Bronx. I wasn’t a runaway. They just could not get it around their head I was living on the streets. My mother kicked me out. But I did not want to cause trouble for my mother either, who kicked me out because I had said something negative about Scientology. So, I called the police station and got her on the phone. “I will let you come and get me, and take me, if you promise not to pack me off to juvenile hall in the South Bronx. (all too familiar place) You have to promise to keep me, until you can get my mother on the phone. She will open the door to let me in and attest that I am not a runaway. ” O.K., O.K.” we had a deal. I told them where I was and they showed up, her with, actually a very attractive partner who was a guy. Good God that man was so good looking I felt privileged being a criminal. He kept looking over the backseat too saying to the woman, “I can’t fucking believe this is happening! I love this kid! I’m smitten” I remembered being aware of my first M/U. I did not know what “smitten” meant. These people let me sit in the back of the police car and smoke, and they drove me around for hours, and hours, until the sun came up. Sometimes they argued. The woman changed her mind at times and wanted to take me back in, and the Guy said “No way”. Until they got my mother on the phone at about 6 a.m. just as she arrived home from some concert. They took me to the door, she took me in, Jesus I had not seen her in almost a year, we shook hands and that was that. The cops were free to sign off. She gave me 70.00 and told me to find a hotel room. The cops left and then so did I. I escaped from jail too. That was in my folders. And it never was an issue.
I agree with you.
Ronnie,
I think, as Green on White and Aeolus have pointed out, that people have different reasons for not going public when deciding to disconnect from the church. They may have a lot to lose by doing so. The fact that they have withdrawn their support for a church that has gone off the rails is good enough for me.
And as far as I’m concerned, people who are “middle of the road” haven’t come to a decision yet. There are many good staff members still in that have dedicated decades to the church altruistically because they believe in the aims and goals of Scientology as laid out by Ron. I imagine it is a hard thing to confront that they have been being duped and betrayed by POB for so long. And when they do eventually cognite and confront it, they probably have to ask themselves, “Where do I go from here?”.
Websites and blogs such as Marty’s are vital in showing them where they go from there. They show them there is an alternative to beating there heads against the proverbial wall.Marty is one of the pioneers in showing the outpoints and the solutions to them using Scientology.So,indeed, Scientology does work 🙂
Every person who leaves the fold continues the avalanche and makes it easier for others to do the same. One more straw on the camel’s back.
Tick tock Davey………
Dear Mark Marty Rathbun, I believe that Scientology DOES work, and thank you very much for continuously and valiantly adding to the proof!
He also will have to deal with his Mom on any ‘coming out’ issues and she likely controls the purse strings.
i just watched a movie ,with same ……
maybe you where also…..
big hello from LRHs Bulgravia.
What an incredible story! I’m guessing all this happened before DM’s reign of terror?
Sounds about right Dan! Thanks.I had read quite a
few accounts of similar improvements prior to seeing
the results on the young lady described above.
The truth is, ECT was a definite no-no in standard
auditing.
To quote from The BOOK of CASE REMEDIES by LRH:
…………………………..REMEDY AA…………………………….
What is Observed: Pc has had electric shock. Auditors
solution is to run it out…………………………………………..
What to do: Supervise heavily to prevent it from being
done…………………………………………………………………..
What to direct: Light touch. Don’t go near it. Let pc get
on top. Don’t throw pc into something he or she can’t
handle……………………………………………………………….
Locational processes. ARC straightwire, etc.
Hey Espiando. I am sorry to inteterfere amigo, but your post sounds like coming to someone who’s doing a research, and a faulty one at that. Espiando in Spanish means: Snooping in English. Your research is faulty because you have got the timeline and therefore the history wrong, plus you are jumping to uninformed conclusions, based on your faulty research.Your name Espiendo tells me you are just here get feedback. Please don’t waste our time. If you want to know who we are, be truthful and don’t bullshit us. I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that you have experienced any of the processes of Scientology, just be hones and say you are interested. Otherwise, you are waiting your time and mine reading bullshit.
However, if I have misidentified you and I am wrong, please accept my apoligies
Mike, what Espiando is asserting is that since Hubbard authored Fair-Game and all the G.O. operating policies, he ultimately was responsible for everything that has happened in Scientology even up until recently. ‘The Buck Stops Here’ was that famous Harry Truman saying. The ‘Buck’ is being passed onto Miscavige for all the bad PR, family disconnections, fair-gaming of ex’s, etc. The truth is that Scientology always had a bad reputation even when Hubbard was on lines. Many people got into Scientology and left in disgust back in the 1960’s and 70’s. It was oppressive then. Miscavige just made it worse. Like any cunning dictator, he effectively took control, removed any opposition, and has controlled Scientology with an Iron Fist.
To make an analogy, in Cuba there were 15,000 executions after the communist revolution. Many more were tortured and imprisoned for disagreeing with Castro’s political views. Did Castro personally commit all those atrocities? No. However, he set into motion all those events by virtue of the oppressive political system he set in place. LRH and Miscavige, like Castro will ultimately be held responsible for all the injustices that occurred under their rule. The ‘Buck’ stops with them. I know what I’m writing here will not sit well with Scientologists that still adhere with Hubbard’s philosophy, but sometimes the truth isn’t pretty.
The deification of Hubbard by the CO$ was the biggest mistake that they continue making to this very day. This blog is doing the best job to show that not all Hubbard adherents are fanatics that take every word he wrote literally. Keep up the good work here and maybe one day Scientology can be reformed into something that is compassionate, altruistic, and respected.
Obviously, El Muy Pequeno Jefe Miscavige, has similar incidents in his past … only in his case, he was denied Scientology, and so, to this day, is trying to make LRH wrong by perverting, emasculating and befuddling everything Scientological which he can lay his tiny hands upon.
If the unlawful disclosure of Marty’s confidences were not so revolting, one would be tempted to laugh at the abject impotence EMPJM reveals in these petulant and childish tantrums which emanate from EMPJM’s warped and utterly impotent mind.
Obviously, EMPJM is suffering from a full-on psychosis, as anyone with any semblance of even a slight ability to make a rational observation and analysis of a situation would realize that EMPJM’s perversions of Scientology will end up driving him permanently into one of those deep dark holes that only the gravest of criminals are assigned to suffer. The fact that he can’t see this mean’s, truly, he’s already there.
May EMPJM’s eternal soul rest in peace.
❤
Yes, I have been wrestling with that one too, for a long
time. Having talked to DM about 3 times and he was
totally OK, actually helped me one time, I now with all
the other data I have here and from other close
observations, he is (has become) such a demon it
is hard to imagine. You have to go back to what the
Tech outlines in this area. That’s the only stable data
I have. (Also, I remember there is a very interesting
definition in the Admin Dict under “squirrel”.
Unfortunately I do not have it any more as in my
morphing process after the SO I at one point garbaged
ALL my Scio materials – 2 meters, full library of leather-
bound books etc etc).
Thanks to my good friend, who is having world-changing wins on OT II!
Looking 4 Myself.
Exactly what I was trying to portray. Thanks for telling it so clearly. I am an independent in thought and in most actions. I am bound to a path that requires some careful planning. Observation precedes planning (Key Ingredients article). I am making observations and these include what data I can gain from this site.
“Websites and blogs such as Marty’s are vital in showing them where they go from there. They show them there is an alternative to beating there heads against the proverbial wall.Marty is one of the pioneers in showing the outpoints and the solutions to them using Scientology.”
It is a gradient as is all else.
For us to find the Tech after such a long haul on the whole track. To taste its bouquet. To then find out it aint, of late, what was planned. And then, again, to seek and find a new way through. The historical significance of this process is awesome to contemplate.
They can and do clean wallets, 401ks and banckaccounts though Very thouroughly atcually in some cases.:-)
True. When he’s real, real “key’d out” he gets up to 1.1 as a social tone.
mrinder.
Exactly. LRH also found the axioms, the factors, the tone scale, the logics, the theta/mest thoery, the comm cycle, auditing tech, CS Series, Data Series, Correction lists, and a whole swath more.
He has Kha-Khan status for each year of the life he lived. He needed 4 lifetimes to get the work done. Managed to do what he did in one truncated life.
One day, maybe a very time from now, you may be embarrassed by your comment. Maybe.
You are on THIS blog. If it was the Society of Bananas of NYC, you wouldn’t be here, would you? This site touches the REAL deal. The real stuff, and here you are………….perplexing to me.
Great post Ingrid! Day after day, you ply your craft,
auditing others up the bridge, through their darkest
moments, and out into the sunshine again! Your own
theta shines through for us to see, since you truly
epitomize what REAL Scientology is all about!
………Just helping others! …..thank you, Ingrid.
ML, Calvin.
I’ve been off lines for sometime but I have bought your books and continue to read your blog. This particular posting compelled me to post. I deeply appreciate your honesty and the grace with which you communicate. The fact that they have gone this far to publish such private information which you discussed in session is beyond abhorrent and deplorable. But it also points out just how truly desperate they are. And they are sickly desperate. I believe these efforts to squelsh you and others are falling on deaf ears. The only ones they can effect are those who are trapped in their web. I really feel sorry for them all. Like my mom once told me” No amount of money can buy you class.” And for all their millions that is (amongst other things) what they lack. They are low,low class.
Hubbard’s wife was the head of the G.O. at the time. What makes you think he didn’t know? You don’t think that being married, and Hubbard trusting his wife in that powerful position that details of G.O. operations never came up?
I’ll respond to Mr. Rinder and yourself, Mr. Castillo, with this: Rob Roy was correct with where I was going with my assertion. The Buck Stops Here is a principle that LRH believed in when it came to his admin writings, from what I’ve read. It was his organization, he created the policies, and he had a penchant for micromanaging (not as bad as DM, admittedly). I just find it difficult to believe that he’d give that much carte blanche to MSH in re the GO operations. There’s a reason that he was declared an unindicted co-conspirator with Snow White.
As for my handle, it’s simply a variant of a handle I use elsewhere, and it has no implication on my intent and purpose here. As I said, I haven’t experienced any of the processes, mostly because I would be considered an Illegal PC due to years of psych drug use by the corporate church. I have said that I’m interested in them, though. You have misidentified me, and I do accept your apology.
Dear T, I think you’ve called it pretty accurately. Best wishes in your continuing spiritual journey.
Gern: Thank you for the kind offer. To answer your questions:
The rundown in question is the Purif. Given every bit of evidence in terms of biology, physiology, and biochemistry, it doesn’t do what it claims. Mega-doses of niacin have been proven to cause liver damage. In one of my jobs, I was required to become technically expert on edible oil chemistry (quality manager for a fried snack food plant, in case you’re wondering), and the vegetable oil blend used in the Purif does not metabolize at sufficient levels into the phospolipids the body requires in order to “replace” the corrupted fat the Purif claims to eliminate. Then there’s the level of heat stress the body is placed under. Any auditor worth his or her salt would want me to do the Purif upon learning my long history with psych drugs. That is, if they allow me to enter session in the first place.
By the way, all the psych drugs I’ve taken have been water-soluble, not fat-soluble. They don’t stick around.
As for the word in question, that word is “homosexual”, as used in the Tone Scale under 1.1. Hubbard was the product of his time, and no one’s under any illusions what was thought of gay people back then. However, as societal attitudes changed, Hubbard’s writings didn’t. Psychiatry removed homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses a long time ago. Scientology hasn’t.
As I said, I’d like to be audited by someone who’s using Standard Tech and is sincere about their belief in it. I’ve been impressed with the statements made here over the past week regarding people’s beliefs, and from reading everyone’s previous statements here, the sincerity is evident. That’s why I said I’d have no problem grabbing the cans if someone here was on the meter. Belief is contagious.
Why is this comment displacerad?
Anonymous takes for granted that anyone “guilty” of transgression of their conception of fairness, justice, compassion etc. is fair game. Seems like an old and even fabian bag actually.
ML/A
Take these complaints to the Purity League.
” On Friday afternoon, August 7, 1903, forty gravely concerned San Diego women went to church.”
Click to access Purity-League1.pdf
Mike, there is a women who was in the Sea Org and a messenger who in a sworn affidavid attested to connection between Ron and these ops. She would courrier the orders between Ron and operatives.
You can find it on the internet as you say Mike.
Also there is an attestation to the destroying of any telex/print evidence that lasted for quite a long time to shred documents.
If there is any of you out there that was part of the shredding please chime in.
This is the test of true integrity.
Violence is violence.
(For Espiando.)
Cece
So great to have you out here!
I understand but something’s got to give.
Greta PS: Give me LOTS of pens 🙂
OK, well I think you are drawing conclusions without all the data.
I spent a good deal of time with him and have personal observations about his management style. But I doubt that anything I would say would change your opinion, and it really doesnt matter anyway. I was asking a question about how the conclusion had been reached that Hubbard knew about ops on PC and Gabe Cazares. If someone had some information about it, I would be interested. It was why I posed it as a question.
I also think that those who believe Hubbard “must have known” about these things omit an enormous factor: Mary Sue Hubbard. I knew her too. I am quite certain that had she known about those things, she would NEVER have allowed her husband to know about them. For a number of reasons, not the least being her protectiveness towards him. She is much maligned by many, current members of the RCS and anti-Scientologists. But I don’t recall any of them ever claiming she was not loyal to her husband beyond all reasonable levels. I do not think he treated her well in the end — she took the fall and he felt betrayed by her because of the shit that had been going on in the GO that he was not aware of that ultimately sent her to jail.
That he was an unindicted co-conspirator is based on the government’s belief also that “he must have known.” Believe me, they tried VERY hard to prove that to be the case. They never could. They would have like nothing more than to prosecute him.
Clearly you didnt know Mary Sue Hubbard. If you had you would understand how silly this is. He is the LAST person on earth she would tell about illegal actions. Your assumptions are just that, and certainly not based on anything other than “Most dogs are brown. He has a dog. Therefore his dog is brown.” The outpoint in your conclusion is “assume similarities are not similar.”
freespirit: It’s the motto DM has on his gilded coat of arms:
“No amount of money can buy you class.”
I think you got it Alex, except that to me, “Espi” sounds just like any other doctrinaire critic from ESMB orthe like, who has come here with an agenda, his posts already pre-written in his mind, the conclusions already pre-determined. He probably feels he has scored a coup, gradually stating that party line more and more openly, leading us with what he perceives as “impeccable logic” to the conclusions he wants us to accept.
That’s why his posts seem more and more off-topic. It’s a big deal in some circles, to be able to say “I posted xxx and xxx on Marty’s blog!(I’m so clever!)”
I think of it as the “Alanzo technique”. Asking what appear to be intelligent, even “penetrating” questions, then “feeding the cog” he wants us to get. That cog always being that “It’s all LRH”s fault, he’s the source of all the problems in scientology”.
What should I be embarrassed about? I don’t follow you? What do you think my position is?
Rob Roy,
Really , was it Castro? Who did Castro emulate, who was Castro inspired by? Perhaps the buck really stops with Lenin? Karl Marx? Or others, earlier thinkers, who were an influence on Karl Marx?
You are espousing a viewpoint in which the buck never actually stops, not least because you are espousing a philosophy in which no one is actually responsible, because all events are viewed as part of endless chains of cause-and-effect, where each “effect” simply becomes a “cause” in it’s own right.
Mike, I read greenonwhite as responding to Rob Roy and Espi with his remark about “being embarrassed”.
WH,
For whatever it is worth, I checked several sources but only gave that one. The Internet is a mix of truth and lies and your words of caution are well taken. A multi-viewpoint-system is still the best approach, though even that cannot be taken as a guaranty.
Greta
Yeah, that’s Tonja Burden. Who filed a civil case trying to collect money. There was TONS of shredding done in the paranoia to eradicate anything that gave ANY connection between LRH and the GO. It was nuts and unreal. But I do not believe ANY documents ever indicated any connection between LRH and an “operative” doing some illegal act.
But this is a debate that is pointless continuing. It’s unprovable either way. And no matter what I say, it won’t satisfy those who wish to believe otherwise.
Christine,
You are right, that’s a hell of a story re Sallydannce-but- not me.
Different lives of happy and unhappy moments…..
Greta
LOL!!! Oh the irony!!!
Very interesting. Hubbard may not have been fully aware what the G.O. was up to. But, many documents and telexes were destroyed so as not to leave a paper trail. Those that don’t like Hubbard will say he knew all along. Those that like him will say he didn’t(and the reason you gave about MSH keeping details of illegal activities off LRH’s lines makes a lot of sense). Until, there is specific documentation, it’s speculation on both sides.
Mike, your statement is kind of shocking in a way. Because what it says is that despite all of LRH’s lectures and HCO Bs about withholds and missed withholds, and all of the Esto Series PLs which came out in the early 70s (including the 3 May PL), that the second most important/powerful person in Scientology had a massive withhold from her senior, who just happened to be her husband, L. Ron Hubbard; that she was working with him while also directing the commission of federal crimes that would put him and the whole church at dire risk. One can only guess at how many times this overt/withhold was missed and what effect it had on the running of the CoS. It also brings to light the massive disconnect between what the theory of Scientology policy SAYS and the way the CoS was actually RUN (and that disconnect of course is now as massive as the Grand Canyon – wonder why?). Interesting to speculate how Ron missed all this.
My take on the Purif is completely different. I did the Purif in the early1980s when it was first released, after reading the bulletin “Years after they have come off of LSD”.
I immediately wanted to do it, upon reading that issue.
For me, the Purif did do everything it was advertised to do, and actually more than I expected. The residual LSD effects did blow off, as well as many other residues of substances like various cold remedies my mother fed me when I was a kid, to the ether that was used during a tonsillectomy done on me when I was very young.
Perhaps the doctrine about how and why the procedure works needs to be updated, but I have no doubt it works as advertised. I do think it needs to be administered with care; I was young (about 36 years old) when I did it. Folks do need to be screened for it as to their general health.
Personally, I think the niacin/”liver damage” issue is a generalization, a big case of similars not actually being similar. On the Purif, the niacin is increased gradually as indicated and not until indicated, and the person is in the sauna the whole way, so that whatever toxicity is in the body is continually being expelled. I’ll bet the claim that niacin can be toxic to the liver is based on overdoses of niacin administered without giving the body any opportunity to cleanse itself.
I have no reason to think pollutant residues trapped in body fat cells need to be fat-soluble. Why would this be a consideration?
Some oils maybe better than others for the purpose, no doubt. But the procedure takes place over several weeks; perhaps it would work faster with some other kind of oil. Or, a faster progress replacement and release of residues may actually not be desirable because the expelling of the residues needs to keep up with their release from the cells. Too quick of a release may not be a good thing.
I would recommend the Purif to anyone in basically sound health, with appropriate medical screening before hand, if they have a drug history.
I believe tens of thousands of people have done the Purif by now, since it’s release, and there have been very very few adverse reports, far less than of virtually any medical procedure performed by doctors.
Of course you can get auditing anyway, without doing a Purif, but I do believe it will go much slower. Still worth getting the auditing, though. And the simplest way to get auditing at virtually no cost is find an interested twin, get 2 copies of the book, and run the Self-Analysis lists on each other. You can do that for many many hours with benefit..
This latest attack on Marty just proves desperation. It’s a violation to read something that is so personal being posted on a website for anyone to see. But, besides Miscavige and OSA people, who really visits these ‘Marty-Hate Sites’? All corporate CO$ members are told to avoid any ‘entheta’ and would not visit such a site. Most ordinary folk who are aware what’s going on will see it as a slime attack. This is getting a lot of exposure on many blogs. This is another foot-bullet that will only come back to haunt the midget.
RB
Somewhat off topic, there are only 45 names needed to fill the Indie 500 list to 500.It would be a great game to get that done. How about a small effort on the side of those flying under the radar that COULD step out into the light before the end of 2012.
Hmmm?
Greta
Yep, He is absolutely fucked no matter what action he takes. I suspect he is trying to run that process of ‘holding everything still’.
Pretty quiet huh Davey……..except for that LOUD SUCKING NOISE!!!!!!
That is the one noise that will ALWAYS be with you~ ENJOY ratbrain!
Mike,
I agree re Tommy being in a special category.
At least he has taken step one – OUT!
Nevertheless we have to grant him the beingness to decompress as we all had/have to do to come to his own senses.
Greta
Castro was inspired by those earlier tyrants. It doesn’t let him off the hook. It doesn’t mean that those Cubans soldiers who committed crimes are innocent because Castro started the whole thing. Every person is responsible for their actions or in-actions and will pay the price accordingly.
Who was Miscavige inspired by? Who’s he trying to emulate? Who came before him before he usurped control? This is a question every Scientologist should ask themselves.
Ah yes a Dianetics Jingle –
When motion comes in, use and win
Thoughtful
Brilliant!
You must have studied “The Art of War”…..
Greta
Pieces of shit do not have class…..they just smell bad!
That was a particularly good one.
Mike. Sorry. My post should have said “Mike, exactly”. Then I should have addressed ALL the rest to the guy you asked the question of. (Espi…). We cool?
Valkov. Thank you pointing that out. You are spot on.
I watched this the other night, doesn’t really surprise me at all having come from the Mission network. I stored PC Folders in my cabin’s loft in Alaska, and after several years of asking for them along with boxes of old treasury and cf files, old books, tapes, un-filed receipts, etc. to be reclaimed (years mind you). Finally I kept the folders intact but threw out the rest. Of course eventually I was called in for an ethics interview over it… which resulted in taking the PC folders off my hands, and Lord knows where they ended up.
These kids are blowing off some by-passed charge, I would say.
The best explanations I have seen for the occassional apparent “efficacy” of ECT is the medical comparison to a closed head injury, plus LRH’s remarks about “exteriorization under duress”. It is well-known that a closed head injury such as many people have suffered in an automobile crash, often results in a temporary euphoric state which can often last several months.
Some neurologists who have studied ECT’s effect on the brain have no doubt ECT destroys some brain tissue, and they speak of ECT quite
explicitly as a “closed head injury”. Additionally, theelectric current itself is passed through locations in which some mental facsimiles may be coterminous with the brain, thus actually erasing some of the facsimiles. Some memory loss is inevitable with ECT, but if some of the facsimiles destroyed by the ECT have a negative content, the apparency might be that the person is better off without them and thus “improved”.
I have heard a psychiatrist describe the reason ECT was being done on a middle-aged depressed lady as this: “We can’t really do anything for her, but if we shock her, she may forget what she was so unhappy about.”
For more information about ECT:
About CTIP – The Committee for Truth in Psychiatry
http://www.ect.org/ctip_patientinfo.html
Linda Andre – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Andre
Ooops let’s try this link:
Linda Andre – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Andre
For sure. David was speeding on antihistamines at the time. Those were later used for anxiety. Turned out to be psych drugs. Google side effects. His drug history is a LOT worse than mine in terms of long term effects. Turned out some undercover task force was down there in the East Village to look for runaways. Good thing I sorted it out as they were down there all summer. They didn’t approach me again. Two years later a “runaway center” was opened on second avenue for kids to go to where they could sleep and be “safe”. That was a good thing. In Las Vegas if a kid runs away from home there are runaway shelters and the city cares for them and provides for them and puts them through school. That is how they keep them off the streets and keep them safe. They simply take responsibility for them. The last thing they want is for them wandering around on the strip, not good for tourism. Kids come in from other states seeking shelter here. They are good kids too. Given some food, clothes and a bed, they get up and get right back to school.
Laughter!
George, you are right about the COB not going to be of help and in fact more than a minor hindrance. You do need to get more data on the OT Levels. You are speaking of the RTC OT Levels that came out in the 1980s.. LRH released OT Levels starting in the later 60s which were used and enjoyed by many. And then done pretty much away with by the RTC group (which I have always considered an error in creating in the first place.) But your eval on Miscavaige is correct.
Cheers,
Frank Davis
dockside at Hawaii for a few hours…but having fun!
OK — thanks for clarifying 🙂
Valkov,
I understand what you say.
Only one remark: you can’t erase facsimiles with force. That’s (actualy) the definition of NOT-IS. You can move the attantion units somewere else (by force), but you won’t AS-IS the pictures.
Only a thetan can.
Great anecdote Ingrid. Having some Polish relatives, I feel entitled to do some ethnic stereotyping. Besides, Russians love ethnic stuff including jokes, but are not particularly mean about it. It actually has a kind of granting of beingness to it, and it’s not taboo among Russians as it is in the USA….
Anyway, among the Slavic peoples, Poles have for ages had the reputation of extreme “macho-ness”. They make much of “Polish honor” and a Polish man is never to display or admit any “weakness”. They probably developed this while rubbing shoulders and having pissing contests with the likes of the Austrians/Hungarians/Lithunians etc during
the “age of empires” games.
Anyway, “real” Polish men don’t cry when they’re hurt, don’t go to doctors when they’re sick, don’t ask for directions when they’re lost, don’t ask for help, ever, etc etc. And they are very serious about all this. It’s drummed in as a cultural ideal/stereotype into most little Polish boys or maybe even as prenatal engrams.
Going through any kind of mental therapy or counseling – a definite big no no, sign of weakness!
It truly sucks to be DM!
About the summer of1978 LRH wrote a program to repair the
Snow white debacle and Jane Kember tore it up and had it shredded and burned. Snow white was kept running . Prima Facie evedense that LRH knew everything at least at that time, he wrote a program to fix it !!!!!!
He will have ensured that HIS folders will never se the light of day!
Brilliant!!! The Church of Can’t Have!! And by the way, I was told at one point that I was not qualed to get auditing at one of the higher orgs. They eventually changed their minds – but I know how it feels.
The church was raided in DC and LA in July 1977. Everyone in the world knew about it then! The indictments were issued in August of 78. It’s prima facie evidence that he knew what the US government knew — and you are certainly not saying they were responsible for the crimes of the GO are you?
What does matter for many of us Rinder, is your recall, if for nothing else than our own deserved satisfaction of knowing of what all that most of us never could know.
Love the posts.
LRH did his best to fix the situation that caused the raid in 1977
LRH programs worked in every field ., this I can swear to.
When they are tore up and burned, weellll ?
or altered to not work ?
NO
Well said, and you re-iterate what LRH tried to drive home to all of us, in the end, only those who ARE auditors will make it. Those who are not, need to shelve the Reasons they give for not getting trained and doing auditing. I take my hat off to Marty, who uptil the last few years, for his former role in RTC and OSA I had considered a large part of the problem. Not now. Now he is Dinky Midgets problem. And he is an auditor as well as a leader. We will have more auditing and training outside of the RTC ratrap to the degree that the people here who call themselves Independents, and those who call themselves Free zoners, and those like my self who never called themselves anything but a Scientologist and an auditor ….train more and actually audit. Places to train will become more frequent when the real demand is there. Create the demand.
And once again Marty, thanks for all you have done that is right, and that is a lot.
Frank Davis
Mary Sue having withholds from Ron (of directing Church members to commit federal crimes) has massive implications in what it says about Scientology and those who managed it. How much does one have to apply an applied religious philosophy if one is at the very top of the church? I understand that application is ultimately up to each individual, but what is the responsibility of the LEADERS of that philosophy to apply what they insist that OTHERS apply. While LRH was writing that if one dynamic is in a lower condition, the others are out of alignment, his own second dynamic was apparently in shambles (and “shambles” is an understatement if one’s wife is putting one’s whole life’s work at risk as well as one’s very liberty and then withholding that she is doing this from him) and thus his other dynamics could not have been truly surviving (per his own writings) and within a very few years his own perception and judgment was at such low points that he allowed Miscavige to insinuate himself into his inner circle and eventually dominate him to the point of controlling his communication and taking over the church.
Hi Marty,
Well I beg to differ as we’ll.
Geez, when I called for copies of Hiro and my declare orders, they were written as if anything and everything we had ever done wrong in our 21 yrs in the SO were all recent, un-handled events. Yet both Hiro and I had years of Scn & Dn ethics, tech and admin applied to them all — so whenI read the declare orders, my conclusion was “these people don’t even believe in their own tech”.
I could say with certainty that the tech works and here they were saying it never had. It was extremely out-R for me.
From that point on– declared and all, I knew that I was a truer Scientologist than any of those sh_theads in church.
They are so far removed from anything that even resembles the true meaning of Scientology and have no awareness of it.
But on behalf of those who know the true meaning of minister-penitent privileged information, I can say that I am truly sorry that this occurred.
I believe that David Miscavige and his mindless robot slaves will in fact suffer in their own created hell.
I think Miscavige is inspired by many a Godfather, but Hubbard was at most, if at all, just one inspiration. As such, I think Miscavige cherry-picks LRH to suit his own ends, and at bottom he is inspired by historical “heroes” of the ilk of Ivan the Terrible in Russia, who ever they may have been on the Polish side.
There are still people in Russia who like Stalin because he was “a strong leader and that’s what is needed”. The Poles in their turn, worship a “strong man”. Miscavige is very much a Pole at heart, his family likely emigrating to America via France, when their name was still spelled Mickiewicz. (pronounced “Mits- CAY vich”
Hubbard was a saint compared to the “great leaders” of the 19th and previous centuries. They were bloody tyrants to a man, no matter which country they came from. These are the kind of people Miscavige idolizes and models himself after, not LRH. The strong fist that “people will listen to.”
I don’t know about his auditing, but there others who do. Maybe they will come forward and fill in some details.
Joe, there are actually several first-hand anecdotal accounts of folks on the Apollo, of LRH’s right-hand staff who sometimes acted as buffers between him and others, on both flow 1 and flow 2.
These threads are on ESMB, which is sometimes hard to visit, but there is a wealth of old-timer accounts there on some very long threads that are well worth reading, including the one about the Apollo.
Some of LRH’s best people were very protective of him, creating theta space for him so he could get on with his purpose. This occassionally included protecting him from his own temper by NOT forwarding orders he issued when he lost it, and letting him review and rethink them later.
I can imagine Mary Sue deciding that when desperate measures were taken, LRH did not need to know about it as that would directly involve him. She could have seen that was the only way to keep him innocent.
Thank you very much Frank.
You seem to have some inside information. I did OTIII in LA in the 1970’s and I remember the level in detail. I also remember doing the original LRH
OT VII level which was later changed when NOTS was introduced.
Is this what you are talking about?
GMW
You are mssing the point,follow the money.
All Green on white GFO’s were written by Herbie Parkhouse
to make J.K. and H.P. super rich
Sure Brian, and there are 4 women from the Sea Org who swore on national TV to the “truth” about Marty, Mike, and others being “bitter apostates” who were kicked out of the CoS and now telling lies about the Dear Leader Saint David Miscavige…..
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/25/scientology-a-history-of-violence/
See, I can cherry-pick my links too Brian.
Sorry Rob, the question anyone, Scientologist or not should ask themselves is, “Is what Miscavige is doing OK, and what can I do to help end it?”
Academic discussions about philosophies of causality are, I believe, are “DevT” to that purpose and wading in them too deeply will turn your eyes brown.
What do you do to help end it?
Interestingly enough, Miscavige, his mind as impressionably bent as it was apparently early on, may indeed have see LRH as “Ivan the Terrible”! But that’s just a guess and neither here nor there except academically.
Valkov, I get what you’re saying and it makes sense to me. You do understand the implications of this, right? That if indeed LRH did not know (and I will accept what Rinder says about this as he knew Mary Sue), that means that KNOWING all the data about withholds and missed withholds (and the LRH data about vital information which came out in early, mid 70s) that she decided to ignore tons of tech on this (and she was an auditor) and withhold from Ron this absolutely vital information of her commission of federal crimes and that she continued to work with LRH as the second most senior person in Scientology and throughout her comm with him, actively withhold from him. (and this would go for lesser personnel to an extent too, who must have had massive m/us in this area to think that withholding overts and vital info would result in “protection.) Of course Mary Sue would have then had to make sure Jane Kember also actively withheld her overts from LRH and possibly other personnel too who were in comm with Ron (like Arte Maren for instance). We know how withholds affect comm lines and relationships and can only speculate what this meant in the management of Scientology.
By the way, the reason I attach so much importance to this is what it fundamentally says about not just the “workability” of Scientology, but the responsbility of the very leaders of the church to apply the basics of an applied religious philosophy (I realize the application of such is up to each one of us, but we are talking about the people who insist that OTHERS apply certain principles or face the consequences). In the early/mid 70s LRH wrote a lot of PLs about personal application of ethics and group enforcement of such. One of the principles he put forth was that when one dynamic is in a lower condition, the others will be out of alignment and that a person would have a lot of trouble doing their post well. So here we have Ron’s own second dynamic in shambles (and “shambles” is a severe understatement to describe a situation where one’s wife is putting one’s whole life’s work at risk as well as one’s very physical liberty by committing federal crimes using church personnel and then withholding it from him), so obviously per his own writings, his other dynamics must not have been in alignment (and I won’t go into the situation even with Quentin here). So why is this a vitally important point? Because by the end of the decade LRH’s own perception/judgement was low enough to allow Miscavige to insinuate himself into the inner circle and per many reports on this blog, to so dominate Ron as to control his very communication lines to his wife and to management personnel. And we wonder what happened to the church? Personnel out ethics situations right at the VERY TOP of the org board (all while Miscavige was just a peon).
Unbelievable Steve!
Scientology works when its in the right hands!!! Alterising is killing the subject of SCN under the leadership of DM! The blundering statements like the blind leading the blind or it was a transcription error are statements that will go down in SCN history as the most foolish, ridiculous statements uttered by a leader of an organization. The funny part is the sheep that follows DM bought it hook line and sinker!! Are people waking up in the fold? Are people that dumb to follow or toe the line of DM? What gives? Is it fear? Stupidity? People continue to give blindly no matter what, I guess the followers are deaf, dumb and blind after all.
Espiando,
As someone trained to deliver the purification rundown I too was concerned about reports that Niacin can cause liver damage, so I looked it into it. What I found was that every study that I read showing liver damage used time-release Niacin. The only two studies I came across which used pure niacin did not show any liver damage. I do know that Niacin can be dicey for people with certain medical conditions such as diabetes and heart disease, but a person considering doing the purification rundown is, per LRH, supposed to get a full medical checkup first and if these or other conditions are found they are, per LRH, only allowed to do it under the supervision of an MD if at all. So, I think these potential dangers are covered, but I would be interested in any studies you know of using pure niacin.
Regarding the gay thing, yeah. The only question is how could a gay person growing up in the 1950’s NOT be covert and still survive! I know. I was there. So that reality and that perception is not too hard to understand. To his credit, LRH did write (I think that it was in “Science of Survival”?) that “any Society that either condones OR CONDEMNS homosexuality is on its way out” or words to that effect. There is also the policy written in 1967 (not being applied today in the “church” of Scientology) entitled “Second Dynamic Rules” which thoroughly disavows any interest in regulating the sex lives of others or using “ethics” to do so.
Not trying to push you in any direction that you are not interested in going, but I also want you to know that if you are interested in checking out Scientology among independent Scientology practitioners, I believe that you will not find acceptance to be any problem.
In any event I appreciated your post.
Perfect song, OOTWS. I love rock with a message. The very fact that Marty has been able to transcend all of the Suppression, Black Dianetics and Reverse Scientology thrown his way – yet is a better man for it, bodes well for the future of Scientology.
SKM, Valkov,
The consensus is in! We are ALL thoroughly opposed to ECT! The mere idea of sending
an un-moderated surge of hundreds of volts through even a computer to terminate a “virus” would have any PC specialist declare one
as “cuckoo!” The idea that frying a human
brain with electric shock to “cure” it, is just
so absurd, it defies any logic.
Hence my astonishment, in the opening
post above. Thanks for the inputs, though!
I think David Miscavige is a queer,
And I think Corporate Scientology Church Members are following a short CON MAN. . .
(I regularly envision Him with Tom Cruise’s member in his mouth, without any hesitation…).
It’s soo sad when THE Ecclesiastical Leader is forced into things like PLATFORM SHOES and singing songs like “We Stand Tall” (whilst standing on an Apple box).
He NEVER confronts the American Press.
Afraid?, Incompetent? I don’t know. But, for someone that brags about being so confident and successful, it sure seems suspect that HE won’t face the World Wide Press. Something DM’s incapable of “Handling”?
LRH would forbid!
David Miscavige; Would YOU give personal interviews to the Mainstream Media outlets and prove all the nay-Sayers wrong? Show them that you CAN stand tall and defend Scientology. Simple; ‘why you make it so hard?
Are you Proud of the institution you lead today?
Are you Proud of the way you treat your Ex Parishioners?
Can you justify the MILLIONS of donated CHURCH dollars you have personally authorized to be spent to defame, investigate and harass your detractors?
Can you tell us why you top the list of Churches that SUE past Congregants?
Can you tell us where YOUR wife is? (Can we see Her?).
AND, does she approve of your Current Mistress?
Does your infantile hijacking of FREEDOM MAGAZINE get you off?
Have you ever experienced a Homosexual relationship?
What are your plans after you pass the reins of Scientology?
Thank You for your response in advance.
Sincerely,
Jessica Kenny
Valkov: Exactly so. These people are flying air cover for Darth Midget, whether they know it or not. Ron Hubbard has been dead for – what – 26 years ? Evidently they think Ron Hubbard really was such a super-duper OT that he has been mind-controlling D.M. and the rest of the evil fuckwits from beyond the grave!!
Stalin is busy mass murdering Georgians and these people would be blaming it all on Carl Marx and Vladimir Lenin (both long dead at that point). They are apparently completed unable to perceive Causality that is right in front of their faces.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Indie 500 #99
Freespirit, looks like your mother had class. White trash does not
necessarily need to be poor. Sometimes you go into newlyrich
homes and the decor is horrible. Now look at all these ideal
orgs, most of them are extremely gaudy, actually cheap looking
even if very expensive. Same with DM’s personal offices in the
HGB (obscenely expensive custom made furniture etc while a
floor below SO members run around in worn old uniforms they
mainly have to pay out of their own pockets from SO pay). It is
feudalism at its worst. Well, history (even in PT – look at some
of our Arab countries) tells us that there is always a breaking
point.
I hear you Joe, and I think you are making a very very good point. All of the responsibilities need to be correctly assigned as much as possible, to in the end know a more accurate history and how it may have been done, played out, better.
For now and into the forseeable future, I consider that sometimes life presents us with having to choose the lesser of 2 evils. In organizations, there is delegation of authority and assignment of agency. The big boss is often not to be bothered with the details of what the assigned subordinates are putting into action. S/he can’t micro-manage every detail, especially as the details mushroom across the landscape. Although LRH certainly tried to manage an awful lot of details, he had to trust others to do the best they could, too. Many things are done for the sake of any “capo di capo”, which he is not necessarily given to know the details of.
I think the concepts he presented in “Simon Bolivar” are applicable. There is some irony here, considering LRH’s own circumstances in the last few years of his life. They tragically paralleled the real Simon Bolivar’s own in some ways.
I feel rather proud of the fact that at the very least, the Scientologists involved in the counterespionage operations actually succeeded as well as they did in “counteresping” the government agencies essentially to a draw, playing them tit for tat.
I, as many others in the 1960s, did not view “the Government” as all wearing white hats all the time. The fact that “amateurs” learning on the fly were largely able to pull off something like Snow White against the government juggernaut was laudatory. The operation was betrayed “from within”, apparently, and what is the actual truth of that? Probably money motivation, or the desire for notoriety, and FBI plants more than likely.
So Joe, I think we still need to put together an accurate view of WHAT happened. Then we can go from there. But I think your insights are likely right on the money, as to looking for how and where and why things basically went off the rails, applying the tech in our viewing of it all.
Test
Joe, my reply ended up upstream a bit but still in answer to one of your earlier posts on this subject. Don’t know why.
DeVocht’s wife says “I know every inch of him”, while Rinder’s wife claims further “I know every SQUARE inch of his body”, but I have to admit, without ever having met her in person, that Jenny Linson is one good lookin’ woman. A bit hard edged, wouldn’t want to get on her bad side, but maybe that would be a wee bit exciting. I could make some very vulgar jokes about her statement, but I will err on the side of discretion. Now, what if Shelly Miscavige is interviewed? Will she claim to know every inch of the Chairman, such as his inches are (he’s probably not just short, guessing he’s a wee little fella – no shame in that, I’m going bald, we all have to deal with something in life).
Smart thinking Valkov.
Hubbard also wrote plenty of policies about getting on with your hat and creating your own zone of influence and making decisions alone. That didn’t mean all staff had with holds. Nobody cared or even wanted to know what I was doing on staff. They were not interested in my job at all and did not know anything about what I was doing. My stats were good and that is all they wanted to know at the end of the day.
Ditto.
You know, I told both my mother and sister of an incident where I supposedly “fell” out of a car when I was 6 years old and was unconscious for many days. That’s what they told me. However, as a result of a session with Clair Reppen while on L-12, the truth came out. My sister accidentally opened the car door and I was thrown out. When I informed them of the truth as a result of my auditing, they both broke down in tears and said they had concocted the “fell” story to save themselves from the impending disaster of confronting my father. My sister and I never got along (jeeze, I wonder why) but after the truth came out, we were buddies. My mother was in a long term care facility with dementia. When I told her, she sat up on the bed for the first time in years, confronted me and said: “I didn’t know what to do. Your father would have killed both of us.” We patched things up, she started talking again after 3 years of silence. I audited out the installed commands: “Don’t you ever tell the truth” and stopped lying.
This all a result of excellent digging from Claire.
Three lives changed forever! BUT, if I had not revealed this to my auditor because I was fearful it would not remain confidential, who knows.
Ed Paulson
Mike,
What amazes me about this place is how many wannabe experts in the history of Scn and the SO are jumping in to spew their inacurate and poorly informed opinions, sometimes trying to make themselves sound as if they have been there, when in reality they can only parrot what others (also uniformed) have said. So many times here we have said: LOOK, DON’T LISTEN. So, in my opinon, these “experts” should just STFU, get a job or a life and stop creating useless debates.
Mike, I remember her being active in Germany in 1997/98. After Kurt and Marc were in Hamburg she went after them and made sure some stories did not see the light of the day. Some cycles she “handled” back then are still a mess today, still poisoning the group and the public image!
That corroborates the “zero responsibility”. See also Chapter 6 of Problems of Work on the subzero tone scale: No responsibility, no affinity, no awareness about consequecnes her actions.
I agree with some section on what you and Joe Pendleton mention
about actions By LRH and Susie.
That was a task of protection of Scientology and didn’t go
right.But Neither are here to defend themselves. Let it GO!
Mary Sue paid that price Jane kember and others aswell even to this day some alive are watched. But regardless of this and thats never to be forgotton and most senior to all is I wouldn’t think less of either
of them because of their hidings.and witholds.
What she did being the forefront in earlier days and up to the point of
help from DM hetch men at the time she was removed from the scene for only one persons purpose DM orders She is in the way “Get rid of Susie”
DM hated her.
.All he cared about was once he got the chance to knock
her down was to ensure she was out of his danger and thats remove her / the family from any noticeable connection to current operations or what was .
Here you have the daugther Diana Hubbard living in a supressive enviorment under a dictator that betrayel her father , Yes I take it you
can say she chose it , or she hasen”t Its what you want and to be beleived she still is his daugther and is being suppressed and thats something to think about why is she still there ?
I did myself witess and watched some drama’s unfold and
also saw How Mary Sue dealt with calming matters where frustration
was showing when his orders wern’t duplicated, Mu’s accurred even
after demos done and trial runs done.
Neither were perfect and none of us were or are. LRH was a Master in
his work and Marysue was his right hand and its about time some open validation goes to her for standing by him no matter what. Good or bad.
Its all about what DM wants and what he wishes to hide never to be told
and supress and for those that known what he did and them then told
to do and cut her off , they live with that. And that which laid to her removal and cutting her off completly to the church, regardless that
she happen to be LRH’s wife.
People are alive that knew MarySue and worked with her and LRH
I had the previlage and she was a caring women with attention to details, and organizing.
She was a Power House Women with gunts, she was a Mum and a wife and overall what ever action she did with the state and raid is a fact
But what she did for LRH and her working with him on research and many many things up to the moment of her removal is outstanding and
the dictaor that removed her is a traitor.
She was remarkable and diserve much more credit than is spoken
about
It would piss DM off for someone knwing and working with Susiet
to write a tribute book in her honor .
I Hope some one gets that idea, DM know doubt would supress that aswell. Is any one a writer that knew her Game for that.Ouch
I am going to be horrible by ending saying DM you nasty evil man.
Do you know by the way Some kid was known as “Ivan the terrible””
on the at the Apollo , He was for ever getting in trouble I was Baron Barez Yeoman,assuming you knew that Yes?
I liked your comments on Stalin and others/ and those comments amuse me with laugher.
What evidence do you have this is so?
True.
Do you know what other overt products David has pushed on the public? The Mark Vll emeter. The Mark VI was suitable as an analog meter. The Mark VII uses a Microchip which is supposed to compensate for the mass of the needle. It just didn’t work out. Whoever programmed the chip did not get it right. You see when the needle is brought into motion it has inertia. That inertia has to be stopped by the the electronics at work so that the needle stops where the read is supposed to stop, but instead the needle keeps going past the read. This is what the microchip is supposed to compensate for. Except it doesn’t. The calculations are wrong. The microchip is supposed to know the speed of the needle at any given time. From that it is supposed to calculate how much electric signal does it take to slow the needle down so that it stops where it supposed to be. But instead it keeps going. This is called “ringing” in electronic terms. (In RF (radio frequency terms) Past the end point of the read. This is why you get the erratic behavior of the needle every time you move the tone arm. The program in the microchip is not doing what it is supposed to. David, not an expert auditor by any means, blown from a class lV internship as far as I know. Also, not a tech person in any capacity, sunk millions of dollars into this overt product and forced the public to buy it. Who the hell is David Miscavige to push this meter? Has he even used one? NO! Stupid guy can’t even find a decent programmer for what did he pay? How could he find one if he does not know what a programmer is supposed to do? How would he know how the meter is to behave if he is not trained? Perhaps some lab tests showed the Mark Vll was more responsive to some arbitrary tests? That had nothing to do with real life auditing! Three swings on and FN? Who needs three swings when all you have to do is stop moving the TA to get three swings? Or more! He doesn’t even know you have to check ruds more than once! There could still be something there! The man is totally unhatted to be leading!
It just seems bizarre but it is easy to see what he is “thinking”. It is classic justification. Right out of your Level 2 HCOB’s. The guy committing the overt has to lessen the size and value of the target of the overt. So this guy has grafted INAY sec checks on thousands of people to find the overts he knows are there because he has to convince himself how vile and useless these people are.
What is bizarre is that we all sat still for it. I even paid thousands of dollars for the pleasure of being treated this way. That’s bizarre.
Valkov, Rob Roys comments about LRH being the architect and/or author of the Churches operating policies, including the GO, were straight forward and on the money. LRH has huge responsible for the current day mess. I doubt LRH himself would evade taking responsibility for some of the mistakes and bad planning was he here today to comment and had he the benefit of hindsight. And that does not absolve Miscavige in the least. Trying to water down LRH’s role is a mistake which only perpetuates the cult. I am sure LRH could handle the responsibility for having made errors and mistakes in judgement and planning. No amount of denial or assigning other causes will change those facts. Its not worth the fight and protecting LRH does not lead to a solution.
I posed a question and you gave a sincere answer. I feel this debate we’re having here is good and it’s opening up the air between ex-Scientologists who continue to practice Hubbard’s writings and those who don’t. I belong to the latter. If I were to ponder who Miscavige is emulating, Caligula comes to mind. Caligula appointed one of his horses a senator, I read once. I think he did that not only because he was nuts, but wanted to degrade the senators. Miscavige ordered Sea Org member to salute his pet dog. This too was to further degrade his staff. Where Hubbard was a man that created something, Miscavige is a mere boy who took control by brute force.
Man, is he jealous of Pat Broaker. To have him watched for 30 years in secret, Miscavige must consider him a threat. But, Marty is an even greater threat. No dictator likes rebellion.
This is an excellent comment — but I feel there is another point that is relevant here.
Discussion about the faults of Hubbard do nothing to change the current scene. His shortcomings do not change the tech or philosophy of Scientology or its abuse or misuse. Exposure of Miscavige CAN help put an end to the abuses.
Marty ~ good for you! You are spot on in your assessment of the Cult of David Miscavige. It is despicable behavior for a so-called “church” to claim they help people. I am sure anyone “in” will increase their doubt of this Organization, unless they are insane! I love your openness and honesty about your path. It is sanity and it has to be driving Miss Cabbage crazy to think he just can’t get to you! Persist on – and good for you! You have many friends. Miscavige – not ONE!
I don’t think anything that I’ve wrote here has been disrespectful. I feel that this dialogue is very healthy for the subject of Scientology to survive and evolve. What lured me into Scientology was that I wanted to be helped and to help other people. In a short time I discovered the the way it was being run was none other than a money-making scam and a dangerous one at that. The ‘church’ as it’s being run is like a prehistoric fly stuck in amber. Someone once commented that ‘official’ Scientology is the intellectual equivalent to a Flat-Earth Society. In order for all of us to understand why corporate Scientology behaves the way it does is to identify those policies they’re following that was written by it’s founder, L. Ron Hubbard.
The only true free Scientologists are the ones that have left the ‘church’. The very fact that Marty is not editing any of these comments out is a testimony to the fact that he knows that there are plenty of people ‘on the fences’ who want open dialogue. When I was on staff, I saw ‘out-points’ left and right. I was afraid to say anything for fear that I would get reported on, comm eved, or declared suppressive. That’s not freedom – that’s tyranny. So I left quietly.
You and Marty are on the front lines of this war now along with the many other brave Ex-Scientologists. I would hope that the government will one day step in, but that doesn’t seem likely. You guys along with Tony Ortega and other few brave American journalists are exposing Miscavige for what he is. That constant exposure and an ever-increasing exodus from corporate Co$ will eventually end the abuses…because there will be no one left to mind the store.
I’d be seriously surprised if Tommys’ flip to the pro-survival side wouldn’t also result in his Moms’ flip, too. One can hope. Or, rather, postulate.
You could not have put it better/
Vicar, I thought I expressed my point clearly. The house is burning. When the house is burning, the thing to do is put the fire out. Then, when the fire’s out, the investigators come in to determine how the fire started, who started it, etc. That’s all I’m saying.
I think Joe Pendleton, downstream in this thread, has done some excellent thinking about the culpability of LRH, Mary Sue, and others, in how and why the CoS evolved as it has.
Its a very important issue but people are also jumping to conclusions on possibly insufficient data.
You are right, that LRH carries his share of the responsibility, but that is painting with a broad brush and does not delineate time place form and event. Of course he carries his share of the responsibility – he was there and was the prime mover for most of it. I just think “coulda woulda shoulda” is a big waste of time and energy.
Rob Roy, I do not think you have been disrespectful at all.
Exactly. Add to DM’s many “sterling” qualities: gaudy, obstentatious, loud and crass. An obvious wannabe. The stages and decor are awful. very implanty. From a designer’s point of view the man’s taste in decor is an absolute fashion horror.
I do think going earlier similar to Miscavige is important to auditing out the 3rd dynamic upset that scientology remains for many ex-staff and public. I see it over and over in comments where people are looking for the acknowledgement of LRH setting this or that in motion. I am not an LRH basher, but side-stepping his role in laying the groundwork for any of these abuses allows other to escape/evade/lessen their responsibility in any area where there are earlier-similars by LRH. You can expose abuses until the cows come home but unless you run the chain he will persist beacause one invariably sees LRH mentioned as the earlier source of abuse when DM is attacked for abuses, in effect lessening and/or distracting from his responsibility. This is his ace in the hole. And it absolves him in his own eyes and in the eyes of his flock. I am not suggesting anyone go out of their way to point the finger at LRH, but let the genesis and truth behind any activity be what it is.
LRH does not need to be a sacred cow when it comes to the organization. His ultimate positive legacy will be the tech, if its anything.
An occasion for the Suppressed Person RD?
She would probably have to say millimeters, not inches.
We don’t know who originated any particular action; Mary Sue may have learned of actions initiated by subordinates, and withheld those from LRH. Same effect in the end. My point is she probably had to make, or felt she had to make, some difficult judgement calls.
Thanks for posting this, Espiritu. I didn’t know about the time-release niacin studies.
I do know that some doctors advocate the use of another form of niacin, called hexanicotinate I believe, for clearing human arteries of plaque, and they prescribe it in doses of 5,000 milligrams/day over some period of time because apparently it takes that much to be effective for clearing plaque.
When I did the Purif, I took plain niacin and started at 100 milligrams/day for the first couple of days. It was then increased gradually based on my daily feedback of what was happening.
I got my start in 1969. By the end of 1971 I had done my SHSBC, HSDC and the newly released Expanded levels between Toronto Org and SHUK.
I had also finished up thru the original OT7. Since then i did a whole lot more auditing up through the NOTS OT7, and a lot more training…and a few times, at my choice , some retreads. never be afraid or ashamed to retread a Course.! Do it because it is the right thing to do.
Since then I have taken more than a few up through both original OT Levels as well as up through the New OT Levels of OT7.
I have been out of the RTC since a few weeks after LRH passed…and never had a year when I did not audit or train someone. Still doing it. Still plan on doing it. Several stints on staff at several Orgs and a Narconon back in the 1970s helped get my head on straight. Made a few errors over the years, but always tried to learn from them. Sea org was always a No Interest Item for me. Okay for those who wanted that. I owe it to Herbie Strawn (Amanda Ambroses daughter who was on staff with me at Toronto), wherever she is for telling how to stop the recruiters interest in me!!! A good for me thing of Martys blog is that it has re-connected me to some people *I lost track of 30-40 years ago, and given me new viewpoints.
Each of us should be doing what we are best at..and work to improve on the rest that we are not so good on. Out produce the assholes of RTC, OSA etc. I could have said that politer, but I won’t this time.
Cheers,
Frank Davis
Back in 1970 while on staff at the toronto Org we had a beautiful young lady who was on staff, and remained a Scientologist till she dropped the body many years later who had been given Electroshock a number of times, and had a long history of LSD. she was a very productivee, no overt products staff member. We lived in the same house for awhile and I would say other than her love for singing Acid Rock music (Great society, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Edward Bear, … much better than RAP..personal opinion) conductedher life ethically and made case gain.
Later while on staff at St Louis Org I regged while a Public Reg a lady who had also had shock treatment (she had to request the GO for permisssion to do her Comm Course) and had been a heroin addict as well as several hunbdred insstances of taking LSD. She ended up petitioning and going on staff and all was fine.
Others were not so well off. Each beings time Track is altered by the Postulates and decisions one makes…has a lot to do with how much we are, or are not, the effect of what happens to us.
Just curious if you know what Anne Archer thinks of all this?
Your referring to Tommy as Tommy Davidson I assume
that he has since left Yes. Who is Jessica ? .
Not all reading this blog would know your referring to him If this is correct.?
is so . How the hell he got out without to much hassle God knows or
he is not a big enough threat to DM obviously. How then Heber
jentzh doesn’t just go for God Sake.He is no good for Dm in his
captured state.
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Hello Alex, I readed your history on ESMB, I am from México, too, and I would like to talk to you. Please let me know if you are interested.