L. Ron Hubbard was a great observer and describer of phenomena. He once noted that the universe abhors a vacuum. He also noted that when confronted with a vacuum of data, people tend to invent data to fill it.
I have intentionally not shared a lot of personal information over the past several months; and I don’t intend to start regularly doing so in the near future. However, I have observed that Ron’s description of the information vacuum has apparently created a field day for those intent on reading tea leaves and those who harbor intentions inimical to my own. And that has apparently upset some folks. So, I am going to attempt to fill in the vacuum in the hopes it might set some people at ease.
Monique and I worked hard throughout 2011 to create some time for me to write some books that I believe will help Scientologists and former Scientologists heal and move on up a little higher with their lives. Things did not go as planned. 2012 presented some issues that I thought, right or wrong, deserved my attention.
We wound up spending the bulk of the year assisting with battles (Battle of San Antonio, mop up of Headley affair, expose of the Pat Broeker affair, etc.). We with forethought entered them and exited them without a single penny in compensation; not even for the not insubstantial personal costs involved. Fundraising for them diverted much of our income for the year. This was the case much to the frustration of Debbie, Wayne, Marc, Claire, and others who demanded I be compensated. We did not do so because the road I feel I must travel requires absolute independence of thought and obligation. The pursuit of truth can, and has through history – including with Scientology- , been compromised by financial considerations.
We decided to move at the end of the year and Monique decided to go back to work in the health care field for two reasons. First, it was necessary in order to obtain the type of premises that would afford us our life back from an intelligence apparatus the likes of which have been unknown to the world since the infamous East German STASI. Second, it was necessary to afford me the time and space to get done the books I am in progress on. Monique knows what I have to say – and what I have been trying to find the time to complete in the full context I have always asserted it deserves in books form. She felt it so important to be said that she gave up – temporarily – the joy and fulfillment of auditing in order to make it happen. We also forfeited our only assets, $35,000 in equity from a lease/purchase option, in order to effectuate this change.
Thanks to great research and planning on our part, we are moving forward on our plans while also rebuilding our lives from the intrusion. It is not that the STASI (OSA, Scientology Inc.’s Office of Special Affairs) has gone away. It is that they are buffered. Thanks to the good people in our community, and the rather ethical and uncorrupted law enforcement agencies in our vicinity, we know more about their rather extensive and expensive surveillance operation than it can divine about us. Their absurd black PR campaign being run directly at virtually everyone we have known or met (including everyone who has visited us and all of Monique’s family) is indication of the level of frustration of not having 24/7 access to our every movement. It also doesn’t hurt having Sugar Ray Jeffrey as a neighbor and friend – the only man in history who has kicked Scientology Inc.’s ass two times in one year and who is fully motivated and prepared to do so again if they get too adventrous.
As far as what I have to say in my books, I am previewing some of it on the blog of late – but those are simply snippets. I will say the following. I believe I will demonstrate that perhaps the most powerfully destructive fault with Scientology is its promise and authoritative insistence that only it, to the explicit and must-be-agreed-upon exclusion of examination of any other data or technology, with scientific precision delivers ultimate truth. Understanding that, in my view, opens one to potential heights that Scientologists wind up insisting they have achieved, but in reality are not even aware of.
Where ultimately does that go? I don’t purport to know. I do believe, though, that the moment one is certain he has arrived, he in fact has died spiritually.
To borrow a line from Tom Morello, ‘the road I must travel, its end I cannot see.’
You seem to have come through it remarkably well, considering all the resources Little Davey has dedicated to “make Marty’s life a living hell”. If it’s any consolation, you have drawn the fire that has made it a lot easier for others breaking free.
I’m hoping you get some relative peace and quiet to finish that book (because I want to read it), and if some financial success comes your way in all of this, I’d say you are overdue.
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Not likely. There are far fewer Scientologists willing to think or look than I think people might imagine.
Here’s my take on things for what it’s worth. #1:Never defend yourself. You do what you do because you know it’s right. You’re a big boy now and are quite capable of making sane decisions and therefore should be trusted to do so. #2: You have done the best Liability condition that I’ve seen in my entire 30 years as a Scientologist. #3: I feel you should go on the talk show circuits. Get it broadly known in a wider sphere of influence as to what’s going on over at the insane asylum.
Hmmn … woke up this morning thinking about that harrowing movie What Dreams May Come, starring Robin Williams. And how it depicts the difficulty with trying to show people that the universe they built for themselves is now nothing but a trap and they just won’t listen despite the fact that they own the tech of how to build universes. And no matter how decayed and decrepit the one they inhabit becomes they won’t create further because their universe is too comfortable, too damn real now or they have convinced themselves it is the only universe.
But there are lots of us who were never Scientologists but who are fascinated with the subject. We search the books, blogs etc and listen to the you tube clips, radio, TV interviews etc. Your former position within Scientology gives you a unique vantage point. As a consequence your perspective on the subject and your “evolution” since departure from the organization are extremely interesting. And we, the people who are out or who have never been in, do buy books. And not only do we buy them, we actually read them.
Nice getting out of the cult think.
Marty and Mosey are a gracious couple who deserve the quiet comfort of their new home away from prying eyes; although I’m sure they remain vigilant to dirty tricks, 3P etc.
Have current shifted gears a bit and am reading “Trauma Stewardship” – Laura van Demoot Lipsky – sent to me by a friend who was returning the favor as I had sent hm Buddha’s Brain.
What struck me squarely is the trauma many of us have endured through Scn abuses – which ripple through a community but MOREOVER the importance of ensuring that our “caregivers” are not just thanked but helped ease their own burden.
While Marty and Mosey have sacrificed much and haven’t financially gained from last years activities – and never ask for themselves – I intend to send them what I can when I return back home.
The donation button can be found at the top horizontal menu bar.
If everyone who visits here were to donate just $10 that could give Marty some room to finish his current book project. If you donate through Paypal your information remains private if you are “under the radar”
Keep in mind – if you no longer feel that close to this blog and have gone elsewhere – remember where most of the “legs” came from and rather than not contribute – contribute to both … At least once.
So sayth the former public reg at the original CCLA on 8th Street –
When I first got on the Bridge, all I was interested in was the stuff at the top of the grade chart (the old one). I kept my mouth shut about things I didn’t like for a while, thinking that while it was apparent that everything including OT VII and the Ls was available elsewhere, only in the C of S could one expect to get the levels beyond that. It came as a shock to find out there were no levels beyond that. Also it is tough to split with a group that has essentially been your whole life for many years. However, at some point the abuse and craziness became impossible to ignore.
The next stage for me has been to rebuild my life. I would think that others are quietly doing the same thing. Some of them will surely be showing up on your doorstep when they are ready.
In the meantime Marty, a post such as the above gives more “R” which leads to more ARC, which has to be a good thing, and which will likely result in some support as well.
Thank you for all you and Mosey have been doing.
point threes sounds good, or even a good reason to promote, also sorry to here Monica has to go back to work, audit eg trey lotz does around 1500 hours a year there is lots of room for yous.. Marty promote your book mister,? tv radio you name it, put your energy there for now. your doing a great job sir stellar
Damn fine post, Marty (and Mosey). Yeah, it always made no sense to me that you couldn’t be a Scientologist AND a Roman Catholic or a Buddhist or any damn thing you wanted to be. I don’t see that practicing yoga or going to mass every day would have the slightest effect on the gains one would make in auditing. The success of Buddhism was in part due to its policy of inclusion. Country clubs have policies of exclusion but Scientology under Mchateseveryone isn’t even that. It’s just a dog’s breakfast and the number lapping it up are getting fewer and fewer, to the everlasting benefit of their spiritual digestive systems.
I would personally like to thank you for some “taking a little time, for yourself”. Without having much new content to read lately – I havent hd to check the site 24 times a day. It has allowed me to take a walk from time to time. Hell, even my family is seeing me more.
Keep doing your things M & M – i hope you have a little solace and quiet time and it sounds like you have a great circle of people around you that the Cult of Scientology can not buy off.
All the best
Your internet friend BED MAN in OKC
Miscaviage, take my advice and trust me on this one – you have wayyyy more important shit to take care of you kook !
Marty & Mosey,
I ‘m very happy you are here doing what you do, you guys are the light after a long dark night.
I want to make something clear to David Miscavige, OSA and to those corrupted imbeciles doing your bidding who call themselves Scientologists:
Save your pitiful bait operations as I won’t buy your crap, I can see you weaving your idiotic web around me. It won’t happen.
I knew 30 years ago that I would be here, doing more or less what I’m doing (sans internet).
I knew then as I know now, that giving the nature of the data in Scientology, the inevitable greedy, control obsessed operators would eventually rule.
I knew then, as I know now, that there is no place in your Church for people like me, nor that I really ever wanted to belong to the control operation that you are.
To the contrary I had always known that I would inevitably be confronting your stupidity.
I survived more nefarious cults down the track; I’ll chip in and make sure that you will not win this time around.
Have a nice time in hell, the clock is ticking.
LRH was a brilliant observer of life.
Keep up the good work Marty
Your comment on Scientology’s most destructive fault rings true to me.
Advances, in all fields, come when people envision a new a paradigm and work to realize it.
If a compilation of every benefit ever recorded by any Scientologist was made (and taken at face value) would it not be reasonable to ask:
“If these are possible, what else might be possible?”
I understand “if it works do not fix it” but the willingness to question and envision new paradigms is a healthy, vital drive that we all benefit from.
Hubbard asked that question in an attempt to move the ball forward. For any success he had it seems unreasonable to assume, or demand, that the subject now be permanently closed and can never be advanced. That seems mathematical impossible because….
“If all these things are possible what else may be possible”
Marty and Monique, I can not say it enough, hats off to you for traveling a righteous road.
I always skip when people post poems/hymns but I cannot help myself from posting a self-translated version of my favorite Danish hymn: Altid frejdig naar du gaar.
Always hopeful/cheerful when you travel,
Roads known to and approved by God,
And if you ever reach your final destination,
That will be when the world ends.
Never be afraid of the darkness,
The stars will shine,
When your prayers put you in touch with God,
You will never have fear.
Fight for everything you hold dear,
Die for it if that’s what it takes,
Then your life will not be hard,
And death not either.
Here’s a little something LRH wrote about the organization he had hoped to build. Seems the concept came a cropper largely because robots usurped the scene.
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 22 OCTOBER 1962
THEORY OF SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS
“Judgment and decision are needed in every staff post. If the handling of items are just “petty details” then so is your fellow man a “petty detail”.
There are no labourers in a Scientology organization. We are all managers of these particles.
Routes of handling are not orders to handle but directions to go. A route is not necessarily correct for all cases. It is only correct for most cases. Robots can’t handle livingness. Robot organizations and robot civilizations fail. They only seem to work—like the commie empire seems to work until you find out everyone is starving to death in it. A
perfect organization is not a machine but a pattern of agreements. A route is only the agreed upon procedure. It is not only occasionally broken, it now and then should be. The terminals involved make the agreement or the route doesn’t work. A route along terminals that never agreed is no route but a labyrinth. People agree to postulates they can understand and appreciate. Hence, a route and handling begins with a particle, develops with a theory, comes to life with an agreement and continues to work because of judgment and decision.
The routing, the comm lines, the pattern of an organization do not do the work. The work is done by living beings using good sense and skill. The organizational pattern only makes their work easier and lessens confusion and overburden. Governments, armies, big research bureaus reduce themselves down to routes and titles. They don’t work. They don’t do work.
They allow for no human equation. Therefore, slave societies (composed only of routes and unthinking terminals) are always beaten eventually by free peoples. There is a point where routes and exact procedures become unworkable, just as there is a point, facing a volume of work, that individuality and no teamwork becomes unworkable. An optimum organization is never severely either one. Total individualism and total mechanization alike are impossible.
So if you or your department or your organization seem to be too heavily inclined to either one, yell don’t talk. A bad organization will fire you and you can do something more profitable.”
So, it appears we’ve all been fired from that organization. Time to create our own routes along which independent beings can travel.
Excellent Marty and thanks for filling the vacuum. I decided a while back that I wouldn’t do any Bridge steps until I knew to my complete satisfaction what Scientology was, from the perspectives of those like yourself who have travelled the whole route and emerged relatively unscathed the other side. I suppose this could look like a spectatorish point of view, but the fact is that the discovery process via this blog, your books, Jeff’s, Marc’s, Wright’s, even Sweeneys – I’ve read them all, has itself been all the positive gain I’ve needed so far. I could write a book myself about the tangible benefits and life improvements over the last few years. I will never forget that you accepted me at face value in 2009 and kindly even found time in London to take me in session despite all the time constraints etc you were under. The first two books were the perfect appetiser for the third – I hope you can find the time and space to say all you have wanted to say.
Marty and Mosey,
The information you imparted in this article is very beneficial, thank you. It explains what is going on with you, and shows the purity of your intentions, and integrity.
Indeed I see LRH tech and Policy violated by “Scientologists” and staff members on a daily basis. When you point theses subhumans to a references you get an empty stare. To me it indicates not only that the “Church” is gone, but also that its people are gone as being, and will require long time to recover from the deep insanity to which they sunk. Such process cannot start as long as Co$ exists. I am seeing people who just completed “OT 8” who have no presence and no personal space. To recover these pure souls it Co$ MUST be destroyed.
I feel that your books are doing and will do a great job in helping us, the refugees, to recover as beings. I also feel that major spiritual crimes are being perpetuated continually against the the paritionairs of Co$. I am racking my brains how this evil organization can be broken.
I believe that the legal and media attacks are taking their toll on dm and his slaves. I think it is not enough, more needs to be done.
Anybody who has more ideas, please post them here.
I do believe you’ve articulated the pivotal issue of any cult thinking, be it religious, political, social or even scientific: “Look only here!”
I gotta smile when I think of the road we have traveled together ourselves, personally. From my being at the blunt end, or pointy end of your RTC enforcer and having a hate/fear/respect thing going, to becoming friends and battling a few dragons together.
Though professionally I may be more established than you (can you believe my company has its 14th anniversary April 13?) I tremendously respect the help you have given others without any monetary requirements, often refusing such. For me the route out is doing whats right, because of whats right not to make a profit or living off it. I understand the sacrifices you personally make in doing this with your young family and new life, and I completely respect it.
While I would like to think I have done more good than bad, I have also fucked up more than once, and am going through a major re-engineering of my life, all aspects, as it sounds you and Mosey are. I look forward to the next opportunity we have to share our journey.
Wow. What a great hymn, and so incredibly appropriate.
All of us who have gotten any amount of RCS surveillance, “fair game” harassment or Dead Agent “treatments” from David Miscavige’s money grubbing “church” stand in awe of how well you and Monique have withstood the unparalleled onslaught from dozens of paid agents, countless Scientology Cult Goons at your house, car, airport etc.. and the scores of OSA trolls on the internet.
Even though DM has used limitless slush funds and clapping seals to destroy you, you have not only survived, but prospered and effectively defeated the evil midget’s intentions. Your only weapon has been communicating the truth and a limitless determination…you are a living example of “the pen is mightier than the sword”.
Marty, I am confident that we as educated Scientologists are morphing into something else in order to contend with the current circumstances at the RCS. There is no such morphing going on within the RCS. They have all 4 engines at full throttle and are heading straight down.
I am looking forward to your next book and next posting on this blog.
Marty, Can we donate by clicking that button and not have anything traced back to “who” the donor is by the church if they are hacking your computer or blog? If so, I’m sure there are many who want to donate. I have always wanted to donate and do my part to exchange my energy for yours. Money is an energy flow. Not only is it worth it to me for the good I get from you and your blog, but it is also the way I can strike a blow to the enemy — by sending money to the “good side” even if done secretly for now. If I had to equal the amount of money I’ve given IAS and other Scn orgs and causes over the years, you’d be a rich man!
Keep doing what you do and get that third book out Oh, and I agree that you should go on the TV talk show and news circuit to get your words out to the larger world at large;. Because you are right, the faithful robots will never read your work, and even more so now that the church has done so much to make them know with certainty that you are the devil incarnate and that they’ll never get their OT Levels and will get declared if they even so much as read your blog. The church is scared of you big time. I know cuz I see what the ethics and just depts are telling people when they find they’ve ventured on to your site. And it isn’t a pretty sight. They are turning friend against friend and they are scrambling to throw each other under the bus just to save their own hide in hopes of getting their own spiritual freedom and just to avoid heavy vindictive justice directed at them. It has made a church of informers, betrayers and is so like when Jews turned in other Jews to the Nazis just to hopefully save their hides.
Thanks. Who knows what they can do. They have unlimited financial resources and zero scruples.
The author Vaclav Havel wrote “Keep the company of those who seek the truth, run from those who have found it.”
That’s brilliant Les.
After I have been declared PTS I had to leave staff. Then I hired at a small business as electrician. As I did not smoke, not drink, not doing that you should do with women I had been a sort of vacuum for them. After the preassure went up high as I had in their eyes no personality I had to do something. I had to be an Identity. Something real those people could understand. Thus I started smoking, did drink 3.5 liters of beer in half an hour, did eat a sort of chilly without s single swet drop on my face and then did drive home drunk. Then I had been a man they could identify. They did feel comfortable about me. Odd, isn’t it.
Here’s an integrity process:
1. Click on the PayPal button.
2. Pay what you can afford that seems fair and right,
3. Type a little note telling M&M how ya’ feel.
4. Then stand up and take a win for helping put a better future there.
BTW, I spent almost a week with M&M last fall and have donated small amounts by PayPal ever since. No one has yet contacted me from the Robot Band. They might someday and if they do I’m sure I’ll be ready, integrity in tact. Just sayin’…
Love to all,
Marty, your conscience is your guide. Your standing tall. Mosey as well.
Finishing that third book is important, like pulling back the curtain by giving perspective on the tech and the bridge. At the same time it will hopefully display its true value by putting it in context. Your uniquely qualified to do it and it needs to be done for many reasons. The sooner the better. A lot of folks can yet be helped. Dont worry about the Ivory Tower crowd ripping you and it apart, as they only serve their own pride. I hope your book speaks to the broader public so it can be easily understood and put to use.
Perhaps that is par for the course? After all Scientologists by and large around the world have developed a hard earned reputation for being remarkably incapable of being unwilling (or unable?) to think thoughts they have (consciously or unconsciously) pre-agreed to be entheta. Which thoughts would include anything and everything of the: ‘Ron didn’t say that’ variety.
Surely the fear of losing ones eternity, whilst absurd, is one hell of a powerful force that asserts its authority over the thoughts, emotions and actions of the one (and all) accepting it. So long as that acceptance is present (i.e. I may lose my eternity if….I merely look & listen….to what Marty is pointing to, or pointing out, and or just saying).
On the other hand ‘fear’ has a finite life expectancy. Whether that finite expectancy is 1000 lifetimes or one lifetime or one moment of one lifetime. Being based on ignorance, it hasn’t a chance to last forever.
Your efforts are akin to uncovering a beautiful sculpture buried within a block of solid granite, carving away the obstruction to it, one chip at a time. And like all things worthy, meaningful and beautiful, the ultimate pay off is greater than the ultimate cost. No matter what the ultimate cost is (or was).
I’d like to say I have appreciated the efforts both you and Mosey have put forth to help others. You are the most selfless individuals I have had the privilege to communicate with. When I left FCDC in the seventies I never thought the church could have sunk so low into a quagmire of greed and control. I am fortunate to have stumbled upon your blog as it resonates what I was attracted to in 1972. I am one of those who anticipate your next book. ARC Bill Dupree
Marty, such a refreshing new day dawning write,”Morning has broken, like first morning.”
Understood Marty and thank you for the comm. In fact, let me know if there is anything I can do so you can go ahead with the writting of the books; I am sure in due time its impact will benefit others.
Spoken from the heart. Both of you have suffered at the
hand of Mr. Miscavige. Please accept my donation as
a sign of support.
George M. White
I saw the road you were both on those first days at Casablanca. It is a joy to be walking beside you.
Before, during, and after my 40 years as a member of the Church of Scientology I avidly pursued understanding of mental and spiritual phenomena from many different sources, and also practiced some of their technologies. The idea that Scientology is the only repository of truth on this planet was just obviously false to me, and much of LRH’s over-the-top ridiculing of other efforts rubbed me the wrong way. But I understood that he did that in order to develop a loyal following, because he had embarked on doing something at which no one before him had ever succeeded — actually liberating thetans from this prison planet. So I cut him some slack on his style.
A few things have become apparent to me as a result of 40 years of straddling the intellectual boundaries between Scientology and other developments in spiritual philosophy and technology.
(1) As LRH himself said, almost nothing of importance in Scientology philosophy wasn’t previously observed and written about by others. And, until one has actually studied what those others wrote, it’s just impossible to truly appreciate how much they discovered that most Scientologists glibly attribute solely to LRH. But that doesn’t mean that LRH plagiarized others, or didn’t make his own independent observations, or ran a con game in which he took credit for others’ work. The truth about life and livingness is just the truth, and is there for anyone to see who really looks. It would be astonishing if in the entire history of the human race only one man ever observed enough truth to matter, or that the same truths wouldn’t be observed again and again by different researchers.
(2) The fact that the trap still existed in 1950, with us in it, is proof that no previous investigators ever finished the job by developing a technology that worked broadly and predictably to spring large numbers of prisoners. It’s not good enough for maybe a handlful of beings to escape each generation. At the same time, we don’t need the absolute standard of “scientific precision with 100% invariable results,” either. What we need is a practical methodology that works adequately for most people who are aware enough to be looking for it. LRH’s hat was to develop that methodology and get it used. The tech may not be perfect, but it works very well in the hands of high-toned and well-trained auditors.
No one else in the history of Man on this planet ever developed anything as broadly workable. Certain esoteric practices in both the East and the West did send some high-potential people “up the pole,” but the gains were not stable, and often required the practitioner to remove himself from “real life” and exist in a kind of spritual hothouse in order to stay keyed-out. I personally experienced that prior to Scientology, and have known many others who did, too. Producing high spiritual awareness in the talented few has never been a problem in Man’s spiritual history. Keeping that awareness, along with one’s own self-determinism, without having to spend most of one’s time maintaining it rather than living a normal life, has been the problem. And that’s the problem that Scientology was developed to solve.
(3) In my experience, Scientology succeeds at that purpose, when applied by high-toned experts. I don’t know of anything else that does. For those who say “the tech didn’t work,” my answer is the same as LRH’s: “What did the auditor do?” Therefore, whatever other interests or understandings we have, our main target should be to get LRH’s tech applied, as he intended, rather than second guessing it, combining it with other practices, or trying to improve on it at this point.
(4) We need to come together around this purpose, rather than remaining individuated. It’s painfully obvious that most of us have BPC on our third dynamic experiences, and that we just want to do our own thing with no interference from others. OSA takes advantage of this to promote ARC breaks and factions among us. We need to rise above that, agree on delivering Standard Tech, and then act to do that as much as we can.
While acknowledging the possible validity of certain other practices, and of purported improvements to LRH’s tech, and granting beingness to anyone and everyone who chooses to pursue them, we need to define a core group of Independent Scientologists who are committed to simply following through with the delivery of LRH Standard Tech. That means not opp terming on those deviating from the straight and narrow, but staying on the straight and narrow ourselves, at least long enough to find out where that will lead.
To do this we need some level of organization. It probably won’t work any time soon to have a central authority to certify who’s Standard and who’s not. But if we can evolve past the stage of scattered one-man-band field auditors, and get more small groups established and expanding, then word-of-mouth will cause the ones actually getting results through the application of Standard Tech to flourish and prosper. The certification those groups give to auditors they’ve trained will then carry some credibility.
I was very encouraged to see on Facebook that Karen de la Carriere hosted a dinner attended by Trey Lotz, Ingrid Smith, Roy Selby, Erwin Scott, Randy Smith, Tim Swanson, and Wolfgang Keller. These are most of the Standard Tech guys actually producing in the Los Angeles area. If they discussed ways in which they could gradually coalesce into some kind of group, that would be a fantastic development. This is the direction in which we must move.
(5) If we are successful at this, we will someday reach the point of having gotten all the gains we can from LRH’s tech, and of having established viable organizations to enable others to get all those gains, too. At that point, it will make sense to investigate what could come next. Some work has already occured in that direction, with the CBR OT Levels delivered by the Ron’s Orgs, and the handling of one’s own GPMs by way of Idenics and Clearbird’s Deep Character Clearing. I personally don’t know how valid or workable any of those “further research developments” actually are. I’ve read some of their theory, and talked to a few people who say they’ve gotten good gains from them. I find myself granting possible validity to them, but see no reason to pursue them while there’s still so much gain available to me and my friends via the LRH tech we haven’t fully applied. Someday, though, it will be time for us to look into this “post-LRH” research seriously.
What all of (1) to (5) above boils down to is rising above the opp term between “LRH is the only way” and “It’s a spiritual tech free-for-all.” With Personal Integrity comes not only the freedom to make our own observations, but also the required responsibility to observe when we’re merely dramatizing being free rather than doing what’s needed to actually become free.
Excellent quote, Les!
It should be read by all COS staff but unfortunately is more likely to be deep-sixed by the DM, the robot master.
As long as the roots are not severed, all is well and all will be well in the garden.
“One should not honour one’s own religion and condemn the religions of others, but one should honour other’s religions for this or that reason. So doing, one help’s one’s own religion to grow and render service to the religions of others too. In acting otherwise one digs the grace of one’s own religion and does harm to other religions. Whosoever honours his own religion and condemns other religions, does so indeed through devotion to his own religion, thinking ‘I will glorify my own religion’. But on the contrary, in so he injures his own religion more gravely. So concord is good: Let all listen, and be willing to listen to the doctrines professed by others.”
― Emperor Ashoka of India, 269-231 BCE
Please heed this message, Mr. Miscavige.
George M. White
Marty & Mosey
thanks a lot for filling the vacuum.
I think we have not even the faintest idea of what you had to go tru!
But your accomplishments have been great, you had and are having a HUGE influence on the Independent field.
We think you did A LOT for thousands of Scientologist and we think is thanks to you both that a lot of them, we included, are out of the suppression we suffered for decades in the Church, out of the spiritual oblivion we had entered. And this will never be forgotten.
Thanks to you a lot of people, including us, revitalized their purposes and goals and you made it possible for the “real” Scientology to be used, understood and practiced. We are a living example of it.
Auditing others, training them, and bettering people using the tech – a thing that was no more available for me and Renata, and you Marty made it possible and people thanks to you in Italy got back on the Bridge and solved huge nightmares and situations.
This is an acknoledgment of your persistence, your courage, your balanced approach to numerous subjects, at times very delicate or very tough to confront and digest.
You need no licence from nobody to travel your own road, and you are right you must travel it fully and decide what is best for you to do.
Each one of us is at different stages of his/her spiritual search, each one of us needs different approaches and each one of us need or will need help.
The subject of Scientology, the philosophy, the technology is just a wonder and is marvellous – it needs to be well studied, well practiced, well understood and can change conditions for the better – We personally having a ball fully understanding it – without all the constraint and suppression of the church.
I personally still have a lot to travel on that road ….but I learned a lot on HOW to travel it.
As said before each one of us has to do what he has to do to move up a little higher, you are doing it and I have a LOT of respect for what you do.
Thanks for being there, you and Mosey.
The books we are sure will be an incrediible reading!
Please work on them.
“Everything in your life is there as a vehicle for your transformation.
Use it!” — Ram Dass
Marty, I beg to differ. You say, “There are far fewer Scientologists willing to think or look than I think people might imagine.” A Scientologist, by definition is one studying, observing, comparing, one on the road to truth, a person deciding for himself what works for him, what is true or not. Ron never asked me to believe, rather demanded I study and decide for myself. This is what I have been doing as a Scientologist the last 33 years and am still doing.
You are being unfair, even judgemental, when generalizing about “Scientologists”.
To talk of Miscavige as a Scientologist is tantamount to saying of Hitler he was a “great humanitarian.” I am insulted when included with DM and his underlings in the same school of thought. DM is a traitor to Hubbard. You and I and many more are Ron’s loyal pupils because we do think and we do argue with him.
The progress up the Bridge to Total Freedom can only be walked by those self-determined, powerful, disobedient. DM’s blind sheep are on their way to the slaughter. I do pity them but it is their choice. I don’t believe DM’s fate will be better than Hitler’s or Saddam Hussein’s.
We are happy, free, creative, in ARC with one another and with life because we are Scientologists, eager to think and look.
Myself, and so many others, are grateful to you and Mosey for what you are doing to enable Scientologists to be free and in comm.
Via con Dios, Marty and Mosey. I respect the hell out of your integrity.
Thanks for your comments. You and Monique are two people I like and admire. Thanks for all you are doing.
The cruel joke of the “you will lose your eternity!” scare tactic is that your eternity is there no matter what.
No Brain wracking needed .
Prosper and Flourish
apply afluence attainment formula. Clay demo many times and clear words with a vengence. Have several dictionarys availabe and keep notebook diary of words cleared . My best advice Go for walks every day.
take your squeeze to a movie buy some popcorn and laugh more.
Works better than wooden stake pounded through heart and less bloody.
Yes they have lots of monies , but they don’t have the freedom you have and also the freedom that you are grieving others, don’t step back look ahead, do more auditing Marty and Monica , to gather you will be doing very well.
I still think KSW is about Scientology.
Keeping Scientology Working.
Thank you for letting us know whats up. I think it takes a certain amount of trust in your blog followers to have bothered with this. Thank you for that. I wish you well in your writing. The spritual gain I haved recieved from reading your first 2 is priceless. Your knowledge you`ve gained needs to be shared.
The Tom Morello video was Perfect.
Marty, it would be such an apparent flaw with Scientology if we
are not able, willing and interested in looking, as that should
be one of the overall wins and abilities gained when you go
up in awareness and thereby gaining more interest in the
world around you.
It would be expansion on the 8 dynamics, IMHO. I think more
are with you than you think Marty.
On another note, I am reading Jenna’s book “Beyond Belief”
and that title is a bit ostentatious. Look at the majority of the
kids on this planet who would never even have a chance to
write a book about their sorry childhood. That does not mean
that I can not feel her pain and that she had some serious
decompression to get through.
Seems like Marty has earned the right to have an opinion. And in this case the subject he was referring to was related to ‘financial success’ which might be determined by quantity of books sold.
I mean for the case of example, how many people do YOU IMAGINE are able to think and look and might end up buying a book to read which they know would result in a declare issue forthwith.
If you look at Steve’s site (Indy 500) I see there are 456 people who are willing to state their name as being willing to think and look. Many more for sure lurk and look and think in a wounded animal fashion and many likely struggle with the confront to actually buy a book.
So the math on it is 456 x say $15.00/book = $6800.00. So how many people do you imagine will be purchasing Marty’s new book and how would the ‘financial success’ be looking. IMHO that is all he is saying here.
For the record, my name is on that list and I will be buying his new book. And I just received word via the covert whisper campaign that I have been declared an official Suppressive Person by the Cult of $cientology! So I have achieved some sort of a rite of passage I suppose. Cheers and the sound of self patting self on the back!
Thank you Les.
your book “what is wrong with Scientology” leaves no doubt as to where you stand and how well you understand standard tech .I bought 4 of each book so I would never be without when someone needs it and will do the same with your next one,I am sure.
Your posts are always so timely,sometimes as if you were following a precise plan and it is fascinating to follow.
I am relatively new to this blog and it took me a while to comment but I have learned a lot and love how alive and fearless it is.
Thanks for the help
No, you can not be traced through Paypal. We have a Company set up with PayPal. They have the same fiduciary trusts as a bank.
Thank you Marty for your dedication to truth as you understand it at all cost.
Thank you for opening to the universality of spiritual pursuits.
Thank you for letting me fulfill my role of being an annoying mesquito in the ears of some.
You Independents have a strength of spirit that being dedicated Scientologists has given you. That dedicated strength has not been in vain.
No doubt some of the doctrine needs reevaluation.
But one thing Ron has accomplished greatly: he gathered together a generation of truth seekers.
Now it is all of us that must forge ahead, shoulder on the grind wheel of societal evolution.
Victory to ALL seekers of truth!
I had just thought the same as Tango.
Flourish and Prosper Marty and Mosey. Have a good life, enjoy it and have fun together. Keep up whatever good work you see fit to do.
“Every Day is a Gift!”
I Second this. “I hope your book speaks to the broader public so it can be easily understood…” and effective.
newcomer. Congratulations, you certainly are a Special Person now. Pat, pat!
Really thoughtful post, D! This exactly duplicates my sentiments.
I am glad you bought up the subject of resources Marty. That is another avenue where a few of your “supporters”, (the ones who recently disconnected I might add) have stalked to knock out resources from beneath you. And this is a situation unknown to most people who read your blog.
I had a group of three of “Marty’s supporters”, ask me to covertly contact people on his blog for “donations” for themselves. I refused to do that but did help them out myself as I could see they were stranded with 10K in cash and car. Financial losses from having them on my lines in other ways amounted to another 10K.
Recently had one of his “most ethical, most KSW” on my front porch claiming to be homeless. I helped out with 11 K cash, so he could get a trailer, which he is not living in, as he is being provided for with shelter by another one of Marty’s supporters he met through Marty) rented him an apartment and provided him with a car while he was “touring through the U.S. via Marty’s comm lines. Spent another 15K to clean up the tech cycles he offered to do in exchange, after he left, as he left three people blown off the bridge. 5K on legal as he started conflict I had to handle via a law office. That was 50K I did not send to Marty to help his “supporters” on his blog (that have now disconnected) .
Not only do he and Mosey contend with all of the suppression from the CofS, ESMB, Squirrel Busters etc etc, they have had internal covert elements knocking out resources (Then disconnecting once they are comfy)
The last one by here caused so many losses I myself using cash I usually use to invest and create more money, had to use to get people here and send people elsewhere for tech clean ups so they did not stay blown off the bridge, put me about two steps away from cleaning hotel rooms on the strip.
So if you are wondering why I had so much charge on the “disconnection”, now you know.
I don’t think people know the half of the bullshit Marty and Mosey contend with that they just let roll of their backs.
If you have the idea that conflict seeps easily onto this blog, I can tell you Marty has flood dams in place to keep it off these lines and keep the environment free of about 98% of it. But I am pointing out he has other dynamics to contend with which led to my recent noisy protest reads.
He chooses not to burden others with it. I am only one person in one place. So I can imagine the scope. When the liabilities and losses are coming from his “right hand people” who then quietly throw him under the bus, and he is sending me an email helping ME to move beyond it, telling me not to stick to it, I get the enormity of his scope and purpose.
Frankly, the opposite of David Miscavige running his beggar units around scaring the hell out of Scientologists with horror stories about how the governments of the planet are out to get them and gas them and the entire Mental Health Field is on stand by to give them a lobotomy and electric shock in their next life, in order to keep a personal entourage, the tanning bed plugged in and legal fees paid for his abuse and fraud.
And for all of that what has he actually been doing all of this time?
Just being here and communicating. Helping us to unravel from the madness and illusion and bring us up from the confusion condition we were so comfortably and so trustingly led to by David Miscavige and his entourages.
Absolutely love this Brian! “But one thing Ron has accomplished greatly: he gathered together a generation of truth seekers.
Now it is all of us that must forge ahead, shoulder on the grind wheel of societal evolution.
Victory to ALL seekers of truth!”
Jeeze……..thanks for the data Oracle.
Let me edit that a bit.
For me, KSW is about Scientology. Or if it is not, it should be.
The last bit of KSW1 for example, starting with “The whole agonized future of this planet…. “,
I can see where that could cause the problem you are talking about.
Personally I have never quite known what to do with that. The rest of it I pretty much can be ok with. That last part is ok, and I dont want to edit or remove it or anything, but I just dont know what to do with it. Maybe I will later on at some point.
It is really up to the individual to do what they want with it. As independents we can apply that last bit as we see fit. The rest of it I see as pretty straightforward and easy to duplicate.
Marty has achieved what few people have been fortunate enough to do, which is to reach a level of awareness and self-determinism where one can identify FOR ONESELF (and not at the evaluation or coercion from others) what road is best for one and what road one WANTS to travel in life.
You know Oracle, I consider that I am a patient person (I am not really that way, I just would like to be) but your description of these Marty supporters really pisses me off. I mean, what the fuck are you thinking? (sorry, I mean no disrespect) but supporting someone who is trying to ride in on anothers coat tails is just over the frigging top.
You are obviously a very caring and generous person but aren’t you actually flowing power to the very type of downstat that operates in classic Miscaviage style. DM is doing nothing more than sucking off of the good works of LRH. These losers are doing the same off of Marty and Moseys hard work. Am I missing something?
Sorry for the rant. You obviously are a kind person who wants to help and you do have every right to make your choices and I am out of line in that respect. I will take my lumps.
But god damn it…………………!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All the best wishes to you both, Marty and Mosey. These shit storms keep on coming.
It’s my understanding and sense, though, that better conditions await us. Isn’t that our shared & mutual spiritual experience?
I’m feeling pretty frisky………….like I just got awarded the silver star or something. Thanks!
Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don’t resist them – that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.
Side comment: Makes sense to me.
Great movie and great analogy. Come to think of it, that really is the value of Scientology. If it does nothing else for you than clear away the clutter and disorder in your spiritual-mental space, it means a brighter future up the track. Good auditing does more than just that, however – it increases willingness to create and get back into life again when all seemed lost.
And by the way, a thanks to Marty for helping us pull our heads out of the sand on a gradient far less painful than would’ve been otherwise.
That was really good Larry.
The problem about eternity though, one wonders if it’s an eternity of Love, Joy and Peace or an eternity of fear, pain and suffering. If one is foolish enough to believe that they can screw up so terribly and that there is somebody or something outside them self that can not only sit in judgment but also cause their eternity to be impacted adversely….well, scare tactics like “you will lose your eternity!” are more than a little efficacious.
What’s your name? Enquiring minds want to know. 🙂
Thanks for this info, O.
Wow!! thanks for posting Les. Church members have to be walking around like See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil to not NOTICE that Miscavige has taken Thetans out of the tech of Organization.
Who are you talking about?
“If it does nothing else for you than clear away the clutter and disorder in your spiritual-mental space, it means a brighter future up the track.”
Having journeyed far and wide since my leaving Scientology in 2010, I can now easily recognize and acknowledge the most important thing I did with it. And it occurred in my very first crs, that would be the Comm Crs (hard TRs all the way). It took me six wks to complete that crs and while doing it I had some of the most incredible, exhilarating, enlightening conversations with some of the most astounding individuals I have ever had. That important thing…I discovered Theta! Prior to that I only really knew the bank and it managed to keep me so distracted that I had no idea about there being its opposite. Once the line had been opened to Theta, even if at first it was a line that was quite small and a bit fragile, I had a second choice.
Since the origin of the Bank, the game has been….You want to get to God, to Heaven…well, the only way you can ever hope to get there is by going through the ‘right’ church, the ‘right’ set of sacrificial rituals, the ‘right’ high priests and finally, the highest of high priests (the one running the whole operation from on high). Jeez! What a fucked up game! Theta, God (not the Bank’s god(s)) or whatever other label one might deem appropriate to pin to that thing that eludes words, it is 24/7 free access for eternity.
Karry and I were so glad to see that you have finally obtained some relief from the constant surveillance. It is also perfectly understandable that Mosey went back to work in order to create a larger economy of time within which you can do your work.
As you are writing new books as well, I can see why you would not want to reveal exactly why you are posting certain things and asking certain questions. It would color the responses. I do this type of thing all the time in order to confirm or invalidate my own knowingness or suspicion about something I am researching.
In 2013, may the “Venturi Effect” be absent as your vacuum fills with what you want it to.
“I will say the following. I believe I will demonstrate that perhaps the most powerfully destructive fault with Scientology is its promise and authoritative insistence that only it, to the explicit and must-be-agreed-upon exclusion of examination of any other data or technology, with scientific precision delivers ultimate truth. Understanding that, in my view, opens one to potential heights that Scientologists wind up insisting they have achieved, but in reality are not even aware of.
Where ultimately does that go? I don’t purport to know. I do believe, though, that the moment one is certain he has arrived, he in fact has died spiritually.”
Marty, you are enlightened. And that makes me very joyful. For when I recognize you as being enlightened I, of course, can not but simultaneously recognize myself as enlightened. There is no “other” except for the illusory “other.”
Who are the people who disconnected from Marty? I’d like to know their real or screen names so I can steer clear of them etc. And Dani Lemburger I loved your posting. Such truth.
Well said, Watchful Navigator. And I love that movie too. I personally felt it captured well what may be the “in between lives zone” and confusion and lostness amid self-projected realities.
CoS Inc has created a self-projected group reality in this “world.” It has erred in confusing its own 3-D (third dynamic) construct with freedom, which (to me anyway) would be the ability to create, change, terminate (stop, change, stop) any construct (or mock up) whatsoever. They have confused the means for the end.
Hubbard commented that the 2-D (second dynamic — sex and family) was the zone of a lot of aberration. No doubt. But the other dynamics are screwed up (pun intended) too. On the first, how many human beings become fully self-actualized, clear, OT, or even in a keyed out clear state? How many can when so much of the world struggles just to find food, safety, and drinkable water? On the third dynamic, there are cults and false leads in abundance, not to mention greed-oriented and powerful organizations controlling much of human life. On the fourth dynamic — heck, we have a number of true believing 3-Ds that just cannot seem to wait for the end of the world! Ultimate 4-D (humankind for us humans) aberration? Self-extinction; suicide as a species, either through omission or commission.
Scientology provides a raw, challenging, and powerful means to look at oneself, others, the mind, and confront truth in a way that nowhere else does in my opinion. It is scary to think that one might wander through traps and semi-consciousness forever. Very scary. But remember that many religions use that fear for control. In Scientology, that’s the “whole agonized future …” deal that so many of us committed to. But, as a static with no location in or dependence on MEST (matter, energy, space, and time), no thetan can actually be destroyed (I very much would like to believe).
Accordingly, fear of illusion (e.g., MEST, which is real of course and illusion at the same time from one viewpoint) or our lostness in illusion should not be the driver. The driver should be the opposite of fear — which I would say is love, or total ARC (affinity, reality, and communication). The way out is marked by total ARC, high tone (intention without reservation), and it is not marked by low ARC (fear and hatred of others and continually attacking of people and controlling bodies and such).
The beautiful thing about what Scientology could and still can be (IMHO) is this: it can be a path that leads one to rise beyond the very path that led one to freedom. In a way, there is nowhere to go. There is only here and now, where we already are. There is only love, if only we accept it. We are in effect already arrived, not knowing we have done so because of all the baggage obscuring our vision (clearing that is part of the greatness of auditing). After we “wake up,” then what?
I would put it in this Zen-framework comment: “”Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water.”
Thanks for reading if you were interested in my reminiscence. I want Marty and Mosey to know how much I respect and admire them. Really, no words would do.
I don’t know who diogenes is, but the post he/she makes to a large degree mirrors my viewpoint. The viewpoint expressed about the best way to proceed and to make progress aligns with my way of thinking about this issue.
LRH took vast amounts of data from a large number of mostly wise persons, funneled it using excellent evaluation tools (and a lot of trial and error) to come up with a workable approach to moving people on up a little higher. His work saves a lot of time for the rest of us as it has already been done to the degree that we have a body of WORKABLE TECHNOLOGY with proven results. I don’t get why we need to go spend countless amounts of times to do again what has already been done, as many suggest. Or, go looking under rocks for “new things” that will improve it, add to it or create something different. Alter-is, alter-is….
Considering there are billions of beings stuck on this planet, most of whom have never had any spiritual gains whatsoever or have no clue they are even spiritual beings, it seems to me that we have a lot of work to do that doesn’t involve worrying about “higher states” beyond those already available to us through the tech we do have that we can determine as valid and not altered. An auditor applying the Auditor’s Code and establishing communication with the PC in a session — just that alone is a miracle that produces amazing gains for the PC — and no auditing has even taken place yet! Next up, DO SOMETHING FOR THE PC!
As for folks coming out of C of S (since 1986 or perhaps even earlier) who have certificates for this or that OT Level or L’s ability gained or whatever, if I were them I would be questioning what exactly I was subjected to when running those processes. If I was being honest I think I would be pretty sure that I was subjected to “tech” intentionally designed to ensure I ended up a total mess, if not dead or dying from some dread disease or affliction (or at the hands of the C of S), as I saw happen to my friends, Lisa and Carol. In addition, I saw others around me completely change from the kind and benevolent beings I had known them to be to become people dramatizing traits far less desirable and in some cases becoming downright evil in their actions toward others. Black Dianetics at its best.
I experienced my own trauma at the hands of Flag’s version of ‘standard tech’. After a hundred hours of auditing at the “technical mecca” of C of S, I was one holy mess! Long, painful nightmare. 7 years of going nowhere except down, down, down! Enough, already!
Despite it all, nothing diminishes my certainty of LRH’s workable technology. The less flattering aspects of his life and actions that have been exposed are extremely sad to me. They tarnish his work in the eyes of many or negate it entirely. Many will never study his work because of it. That is a loss for mankind. I do not believe any of us will ever really know the truth from the lies about LRH though. We are left to form our own opinion, based upon our observations, evaluation of data and experiences.
I do know the power of the smallest piece of the tech can easily produce such a shift for a being that a person quickly gains their own certainty of the tech, even if never love and admiration for the man. A good thing for us as the road to getting beings up and out of our prison planet will not be a short one!
To me, it would be wise of us to quit trying to be philosophers or seeking to direct attention and time to other fish to fry or quarreling over a bunch of BS that means little in the end. There’s plenty we can do with what we have to hand. Let’s just apply workable technology to as many prisoners as possible and work to improve conditions in life each day in our pursuits and interactions with others. We need to band together, not continue to splinter and flounder in our new found “freedom”. We risk losing the very thing we all so desperately wish to have, IMHO.
I digress….. sorry….
The point, IMHO, is that I don’t understand why so many are so focused on recommending or suggesting that a lot of time or energies should be spent on sifting through all the vast array of things we could “broaden” our horizons with when there is so much that could be done by just spending our time reaching one person at a time with what we already have at our disposal that we have a high degree of certainty is safe and can and does get rave results for the vast majority of beings.
If the goal is “moving on a little higher”, I think we already have the tools to accomplish that and no shortage of beings to apply them to either.
You are both very much appreciated. Everything you do and talk about is very interesting and appreciated by thinking men and women – and especially auditors!!!
Gosh, it even manages to sometimes wake the dead and the sleeping, out of their brainwashed coma, if I direct them to your Blog or your books.
I am pretty sure that donations can not be traced back to you from using paypal.
There’s a whole lot more people thinking independently than are putting there name on that list.
I like the title “The Road I Must Travel.” I have often had this feeling that I was on a road that I had to travel, whether it was always rosy or not. I know what it feels like to help other people out of your good heart, and to be left holding the bag, and having to pay the bills. A bitter sweet feeling I’ve been there.
It’s all to your honor when you say: :The road I travel requires absolute independence of thought and obligation.” This kind of stance is rare these days, and yet that what it takes to establish a foundation of clarity in one’s life. As you say, the pursuit of truth has often been compromised by financial considerations, and often is. IT is so refreshing to see someone who sees this and takes the higher road.
I look forward to reading more and longer of these “snippets” of your book, that you talk about. With the kind of foundation of honesty that you are trying to establish, I am sure that the book will pay off, in terms of exuding sincerity and integrity.
Maybe the most interesting part in your post is about your intent to demonstrate that Scientology is not the only one delivering the truth. I am really curious to read about this. My experience has always been, as I have posted before, that the truth comes in many forms, shapes and flavors, and flows from many sources. It is a person’s depth and inner thirst that enables a source of truth to be a source of truth. Of course all of those that claim to have the truth do not have much of it to share. But there are so many enlightened paths out there, so many people who live a light full of light and love. I see for me my first obligation is to be this “it” that you talk about. To be in that space. Not just on week ends, but all the time. Each breath is a blessing. Consciousness is given to me to be aware of that, to appreciate. Appreciation is such a gift. To be able to appreciate life. How dreary would life be if appreciation did not exist…
Your last sentence: “The road I must travel, its end I cannot see”, I can relate, and I like it. It reminds me of Voltaire, who once wrote; “It takes a very ignorant person to have an answer to all the questions.” In a world filled with fake knowledge, there is nobility in not acknowledging that one does not know.
Thank you for having the honesty to say that.
This perspective is what I loved about Scientology when I first joined, and it is what I experienced as a young staffer as well. It was a theta and fun. It’s why orgs then were full and busy and courses were jammed. Orgs were fun places to spend time and be together. We weren’t perfect, but we got the job done and had massive ARC and respect for one another and a good time playing the game.
It was François Rabelais who first observed and wrote, “Nature abhors a vacuum.” He lived in the 15th century. (1494-1553).
Also, noting my personal experience, I never allowed Scientology to limit my study of anything. On the contrary, in his body of work L. Ron Hubbard makes many references and credits to scholars, thinkers, physicists, theologians, which is fertile material for horizontal study.
Well put, Conan!
Great post Dio! Thank you for coming by! XXOO
“I believe I will demonstrate that perhaps the most powerfully destructive fault with Scientology is its promise and authoritative insistence that only it, to the explicit and must-be-agreed-upon exclusion of examination of any other data or technology, with scientific precision delivers ultimate truth.”
Scientology as such does not say anything, LRH does, and I don’t see him saying the above. A lot of interpreters say things, you, me and everyone else. For an interpreter I’d rather read you than many others, so I’m glad you are planning to write even more and will read it with great interest, but ultimately, I prefer to get it straight from the horse’s mouth.
‘The road I must travel, its end I cannot see.” !!!!
Thanks for the conversation. My L12 success story:
Generations and dimensions go by and by and, there were a lot of conversations I wanted to have. I didn’t have them and as more time and more living went by, I came to think these conversations would never be possible.
As time went by and by, I even just started talking to myself most of the time.
On L12, the conversations for so long impossible, became possible. And I found myself tumbling into a new “now” as the conversations went on over the time of this amazing rundown which, for me, was the first real OT level.
Mainly, I had been fighting for so long, I had forgotten how to stop. It had been working out for me, I fought my way to freedom. I fought my way to L12. And as soon as I saw on some level it had been working out for me, and I was still alive, and I was still me, and I was still here, and I had survived, I came into a very good place.
Well, after handling survivors guilt.
My enemies, I have surrendered unto themselves. I am in a very, very good place. In a very, very good frame of mind. I am in a, “we can work it out” frame of mind.
That is who I really am. I am out of the condition of enemy with myself. I found out who I really am.
You do find out who you really are on L12. And that is vital information for any being.
My eternal gratitude to my auditor, Trey Lotz truly an auditor of the highest caliber , my good friend Hubbard, all Scientologists who have worked to keep the porch light on, and to all beings who work it out.
“Eternity is there no matter what” is a cog I had years ago, though still actively connected. I agree with LRH when he says to look ahead and all there is eternity, but what condition you are in is up to you. One one hand, I wanted to get those I care about cognizant of what Scientology has to offer, and see them rid themselves of bank so that they would be less restimulated when there is a crazy nuclear WW3. I was concerned for all beings who were not making it up the bridge or even on it. I appreciated the time stream that LRH was running against,but then I thought: I am here. I know that I have been existing through all sorts of trauma, drama, pain, and unconsciousness as well as everyone else for eons. You can’t kill a being. We’ve been through it before. Only we, individually, can decide to ‘be or not be’ as the bard so wisely stated. Take away the physical time stream and all we have is now and future now. It is all one big life…
I do like this policy letter, but I had to laugh at the line: “There are no labourers in a Scientology organization. We are all managers of these particles.” Put that on a sign next to someone who has been up for 24 hours or more doing some task under duress by order of a senior who is dramatizing what has been done to him/her. How ’bout the teenage SO staffer who gets to sweep or clean bathrooms all day, or an RPFer who has to do some mundane repetitive task. Do they really feel like they are managers and not laborers? Geeze, the theory vs the actuality of the green on white sometimes makes me roll my eyes and all I can think is ‘what a crock’.
To talk of Miscavige as a Scientologist is tantamount to saying of Hitler he was a “great humanitarian.”
Did Marty write that Miscavige is a scientologist? Nope. That’s your own interpretation.
Plus, Marty isn’t being judgemental when he writes that “there are far fewer Scientologists willing to think or look than I think people might imagine.”
I just have to look around me: 95% of my friends and acquaintances who are still in the church just won’t look. It’s an observable fact.
It was always confounding to me how Scientologists shudder and look down on *entheta* yet in the staff arena and in the Sea Org I endured, yelling, screaming, fighting, face ripping, co-ercing, dominating, held against will, evaluating, SRAing, suppressing, even slapping and beating was just *NORMAL* every day life.
What a *treasure* you are !
Everyone has their own road to travel. Many, perhaps most, are not aware in present time that they are traveling it or what their road is.
You have gotten many to take a look. Well done and keep moving forward.
I once had a simple cog and printed it out and taped it to the back of my office door. The sign is still there. “Enjoy the Trip” is all it says.
BRAVO! This blog has been a place of revelation and healing. But some of its followers still find it more exciting to thrive, like sharks on chum, on the drama, rather fhan embracing ‘the moving on up a little higher’. Which truth be told is the reason we all started the spiritual journey.
KUDOS to you and Mosey for fully embracing your own philosophy. Keep walking your talk.
First, it was necessary in order to obtain the type of premises that would afford us our life back from an intelligence apparatus the likes of which have been unknown to the world since the infamous East German STASI.
At the time of the big purge of the Guardian’s Office being taken out, announcements were made about the Church was going to clean up its act. The days of Dirty tricks and Fair Game were over ! Past tense ! Shocking criminal acts such as breaking in to Government offices were done by these “GO Crims”.
(Criminals) The Church actually declared a “New Renaissance.”
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ~~ the Church of never-never land of Fantasy and LIES.
Many GO “crims” are alive and well and all over the place.
Many like Henning Heldt and Tom Reitze have gone up to the OT VIII….
Ken Moxon, David Miscavige go-to guy lawyer that seems to be *everywhere* is a Government un-indicted co-conspirator.
The commanding officer of OSA INT Linda Hamel was a Guardian’s office Programs Ops who actually “ran” Snow White, the Government program of criminal activity of breaking and entering and accessing Government files.
Linda Hamel has been the CO of OSA INT for at least 15 years and is a DM pet, well protected from so it seems from SP hole and the RPF.
Kurt Weiland, former CO OSA INT received Chinese water torture in SP hole til he went into hypothermia and lips went blue but dear Linda Hamel seems cosy and safe.
A new Renaissance indeed ! 😆 😆 😆
Ray Jeffrey is a National Treasure !
He reminds me of the Shakespeare quote “Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have GREATNESS THRUST UPON THEM !’ High Fives Ray Jeffrey (and dear Mike Laws.)
IMHO your power and/or importance is as a whistle blower and former insider. All this dissecting of Scientology philosophy and technology is wasted energy, tedious and boring to all but a very small audience. My unsolicited advice is to get back to your whistle blowing roots. Jenna did so in her own way. Her book is one of the top current Kindle downloads. It’s time for a tell-all insiders account. Time, Place, Form & Event. The general public needs the info. Leave it all on the field, my man.
You actually will lose nothing. You are what you are
and any further advancement spiritually can now be
found in so many places.
That story. “What dreams may come”, was authored by Richard Matheson. I recommend another work by him, non-fiction, entitled “The Path”, written in 1993. His material is based on Harold Waldwin Percivals “Thinking and Destiny”, written in 1949, of which he apparently is a student.
FOTF2012 , thanks, so so true.
Actually, what treasures you BOTH are.
Those are words of wisdom David.
I won’t publish them here. To do so would indirectly support, or even be a practice, of the same game.
I really like your comment FOTF2012. You reveal much insight.
“Accordingly, fear of illusion (e.g., MEST, which is real of course and illusion at the same time from one viewpoint) or our lostness in illusion should not be the driver. The driver should be the opposite of fear — which I would say is love, or total ARC (affinity, reality, and communication). The way out is marked by total ARC, high tone (intention without reservation), and it is not marked by low ARC (fear and hatred of others and continually attacking of people and controlling bodies and such).”
ARC – one of those incredibly simple concepts that just keeps on giving. It appears that ARC was the organizing component (high probability it was more) in the making of the MEST universe projection. Entheta uses it to perpetuate the projection. Theta uses it to undo the projection.
From inside the illusion we view and experience ARC through the lens of duality. I suspect, though, that once entheta and the projected illusion are undone, ARC in pure nondualistic Theta is….well, no words can take me there. Only Theta can fully return me to Theta. And once there, where there is no ‘there’ there will be no need for all the illusory symbols. Theta Is.
Or you can reread Dianetics 55, and find out that all entrapment is primarily of thought.
Kevin, Marty doesn’t really need advice in my opinion. If he can get some breathing room to get his book done, I imagine it will have all the whistle blowing anyone could ask for, along with much else. The Paypal button is there to help him get that breathing room.
I for one very much appreciate what he has been doing, and I think his recent posts will help many to escape the thought constraints instilled by the C of S. I know they have helped me.
FOTF2012: “I would put it in this Zen-framework comment: ‘Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water.’ ”
This statement always seemed mysteriously ambiguous to me. Yet, whenever I come across it, it always hooks me. In any case, I suspect that it was intended to be mysteriously ambiguous (obviously more to this enlightenment story) so that it would incite the effect point to ponder and interpret for self. That said, I have both pondered and interpreted and here is my current interpretation: Before Enlightenment I was sound asleep and dreaming. After Enlightenment, I no longer slept but I continued to dream the dream. Only, now, I knew that I was the dreamer dreaming the dream.
Steer clear? How can you help and influence them in the right ways if you steer clear?
Sounds a bit like disconnecting from those awful disconnectors to me.
Karen, thank you for connecting some of the dots!
Flourish and prosper is a great advice by LRH. The problem is that people are literally being attacked. Flourish and prosper is good for you and me. We are no longer under attack. It is not good for these still under the influence of dm.
“The beautiful thing about what Scientology could and still can be (IMHO) is this: it can be a path that leads one to rise beyond the very path that led one to freedom. In a way, there is nowhere to go. There is only here and now, where we already are. There is only love, if only we accept it. We are in effect already arrived, not knowing we have done so because of all the baggage obscuring our vision (clearing that is part of the greatness of auditing). After we “wake up,” then what? ”
IMHO……..Then we can be here comfortably and perceive, while we chop wood and carry water!
Soon enough. What is your e-mail address?
It looks like Christian beliefs have a similar version of KSW.
“And He said: ‘Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, “I am He,” and, “The time has drawn near.” Therefore do not go after them. But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.’” (Luke 21:8-9)
“But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.” (2 Peter 2:12-17)
“These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.” (Jude 12-13)
I wrote: “Once the line had been opened to Theta, even if at first it was a line that was quite small and a bit fragile, I had a second choice.” I ceased writing before I completed my major thought. I neglected to add…and having that second choice (Theta) come into my illusory experience changed EVERYTHING! It is Theta (content), IMHO, that is the actual “Bridge” back to one’s true SELF, while ‘form’ (the plethora of modalities, technologies, rituals, etc.designed to raise self awareness and facilitate self-discovery) is but a ramp onto that Bridge. We have a strong tendency to fixate on form to the point of “analysis paralysis”, to the point of making it into idols. Form is nothing in and of itself. Form is a conduit that is either being used to serve one of only two Masters i.e., Entheta or Theta. But never both
In the movie, The Master, near the end of the movie the character, Lancaster Dodd, tells Freddie (something to the effect) that everyone serves a Master and that if he figures out a way to not do that he would want to know about it. I believe that the most important choice we always have is the choice of what Master we will listen to, what Master we will serve…Entheta or Theta.
The thing about eternity is, it will contain everything. Not just joy, and not just pain. It can be better or worse, but then, if it is worse, you can always make it better. It is a crazy joke to run a can’t-have on infinity!
The blind are in fact leading the blind! Correct evaluation …..wrong target! (Now that,s a surprise!) The overt doth speak loudly.
Unwillingness to look. Unwillingness to confront. Unwillingness to do something about it. Someday things will get bad enough that even the unwilling may rise up to ‘NEED OF CHANGE’.
These days it’s like watching the grass grow!
“The cruel joke of the “you will lose your eternity!; scare tactic is that your eternity is there no matter what”.
I was just thinking the same thing! By definition, how can one “lose” what always has been and will forever be? Eternity has no beginning and no end. Eternity cannot be “had”, because it is not of this physical, temporal mest universe. Eternity is a beingness that forever been and shall forever be. Its impossible to become lost because its impossible to be “had”. Of all the empty threats the COS makes to keep the Kool Aid imbibers in line, this one pisses me off the most.
Great point Karen.
I guess dm figures the “minion in origin” the people that are like “animals, grass and trees” can’t handle “entheta” only the “big beings” can.
He can feed off of the public (minion), take all of their money because they will never make it to OT anyways, so you don’t want to scare them off with any “entheta”.
I could not agree more. The impulse to alter-is, is powerful, and somewhat obsessive. The reason for this is right in the axioms. Without it, we’d have no persistence. But we should not ourselves dramatize it.
“Lose one’s eternity”??????
I never quite got that one. I guess some people really believe that the COS and Miscavige can do that.
Apparently Miscavige has been trolling for ‘gullible believers’ who will buy into lies like that for some time.
Anyone who does buy into that ridiculous idea needs to re-study A History of Man (and other LRH writings) and clear any mis-understood words no matter how many times they have already read it…..
….IF they need an LRH reference to confirm what utter bs, this is.
Or one could simply contemplate what is the nature of a Thetan! Or try to imagine not existing! (Good luck with that one.) Hah! My God! What tripe!
Miscavige and his marketing machine are like those nasty creeps who make up scary stories to tell children before bedtime so that they will have nightmares and do as they are told.
About the only thing a Being cannot do is to cease to exist.
After all we are BE-ings.
To Be is our NATURE.
No one can give this to us.
No one can take this away.
Miscavige is full of crap.
Any questions? 🙂
Wow! Seriously? Speechless…
Diogenes, your thoughts on this subject are obviously well considered. But I suspect that all the independent practitioners you’ve listed that met at Karen’s dinner have decided, for various reasons, that they prefer to remain independent, rather than organize as a group.
Most of us with staff experience were subjected to injustices. And there were often situations that required elaborate steps to buck suppressive management orders that actually impeded delivery of the tech to our public. Who would want to sign up for that again?
Having lines and terminals in place to deliver the tech may be wonderful in theory, but all of those group personnel need to be financially supported, too.
Trey Lotz delivers 35–45 hours per week of auditing, completely on his own. He’s obviously arrived at a very high condition, and additional admin personnel would actually dilute his personal financial rewards!
So, it seems that these independent auditors would prefer to run their own show while remaining allied with each other in their larger group. As long as their care of each individual preclear is at an “exchange in abundance” level, they can be extremely successful without admin personnel.
“How can you help and influence them in the right ways…?”
By setting a good example.
Perhaps I did not make my point very well. Let me clarify: IMHO basic Scientology philosophy (ARC, KRC, The Tone Scale, Thetan-Body-Mind, 2WC, etc.) is quite powerful and very easy to understand. It needs no explaining or dissecting. It could probably all be gotten down in a very few pages. The balance of what LRH wrote was on the technical procedures having to do with how to audit and run a 3D. One only really understands these procedures by doing them over and over again. My opinion is that to the degree Marty concentrates on “opining” on the tech his audience will get smaller and smaller as there simply aren’t that many people interested. I believe his efforts would be better concentrated on the general public. There probably isn’t much Marty hasn’t already written or spoken about in terms of what he knows as an insider however a cohesive narrative in book form would be valuable to have for the general public. One may or may not agree with what Lawrence Wright wrote but the book was well written with a strong narrative. Ditto for Reitman’s book. With a good editor or co-writer, Marty could hopefully create a page tuner as strong as, say the Steve Jobs bio ( a must read). I guess my bottom line is this: Marty, please turn your attention to the general public. The time is right and very few other people have seen what you have seen. As Lawrence Wright found his donkey to pin a tail on. Your turn.
Marty when you say: “ I believe I will demonstrate that perhaps the most powerfully destructive fault with Scientology is its promise and authoritative insistence that only it, to the explicit and must-be-agreed-upon exclusion of examination of any other data or technology, with scientific precision delivers ultimate truth.” You tackle a very fascinating challenge, but also a very difficult one. challenging task.
How can one “demonstrate” that a religion has or does not have an exclusivity on a truth since, by definition, any demonstration proceeds through inductive/deductive logic and since the essence of religious experience is outside those realms? My own experience is that truth can only be experienced, not demonstrated. But maybe you have something up your sleeve that I’m not aware of.
What I’ve seen is that some people/paths/movements claim to have truth. They or may not have it. Some followers will believe them, and some will not. Ultimately, the only way to find out whether the claim is true is by practicing whatever practices these people claim leads to truth, in all earnest, with the proper discipline and an earnest heart.
Where it gets tricky in my experience is that the same path may lead one person to what they see as truth and another person to what they see as hype, or nothing much.
Such is the nature of the journey toward the self… there are few external markers, few objective assessments, and few pieces of advice that are reliable. Each of us is a traveler on a solitary journey. My own view is that life is very short, and very precious. We have a finite number of breaths that we will take before it’s over. The best way to spend these breaths is in progressing along our path to truth. Whatever time I spent narrowing the distance between this experience of truth and where I am at, is a breath gained, a day that was worth living.
There is a lot of injustice in this world. A lot of stuff that is promised that may not be so. The challenge, the dilemma, is how much time do I spend on this, versus how much time do I spend moving forward on my own journey toward enlightenment? When I was a child, I hear this arab proverb: “Dogs bark, the caravan passes” Something in me resonated. I identified with the caravan, I knew I was on a journey. I did not want to belong with the dogs, but I wanted to be one of the travelers focused on the destination.
Such a journey of life..so short and so precious.. and so trivially lived, most of the time..
Thank you for the inspiring post.
Marty your post made me think of this little poem by Spanish poet Antonio Machado (my own imperfect translation)
Traveler, all there is on the road are your footprints
and nothing more;
On the ground where you walk, there is no path
The path, you create it as you walk
By walking, you create the path
When you look back, you see a path that you will never have to walk again
Traveler, there is no path,
Except to one day wake up by the ocean
“It is a crazy joke to run a can’t-have on infinity!” Agreed! But consider: In order to be able to run a crazy joke such as this, it’s got to be cleverly set up first. Agreements have got to be entered into.
Perhaps posing this question is a meaningless distraction but I’m going to do it anyway. Are the words eternity and infinity symbols for the same concept? I suspect that the answer is one of those “yes and no” answers. Personally, I tend to consider eternity as meaning without time, beginning or end and infinity as meaning limitless time, having no end but possibly having a beginning. Hmmm…appears that question was a useless distraction.
About the concept of Eternity…I know that, from where my point of view is now, that I cannot begin to conceive of what Eternity actually is. Although I do imagine it as being a pure nondualism. Meaning that it would be everything of what it is but it would never include its opposite. If it could contain its opposite it would then be a duality. I recognize that the reason I cannot get a clear view of Eternity at this time is because I’m constantly using time against Eternity. This doesn’t seem obvious but in realizing that so much of what I see and experience is either the past or the future (both nonexistent) indicates that I am using time to obscure my view of Eternity. Time is a mechanism for breaking Eternity into little pieces. It makes it seem like Eternity can have a past and a future, which is, of course, an illusion. Thus, my holding onto the idea of time is a way of keeping me unaware of the actuality of Eternity. Just had this thought….only by coupling Eternity and time (the idea of forever) together can Eternity then be used as a threat of loss as a punishment. Thinking of Eternity as having infinite time, can easily be packaged to be an incredibly scary concept. How much power could the concept of “eternal damnation” have if the illusion of time wasn’t mixed in with the concept of Eternity?
Marty, I have respect for you and Mosey trying your best to live by your principals. You are both people who are working to make the world a better place and helping your fellow man the best way you can – there is no more that can be asked. If only 20% of the human population dedicated themselves to living that way – it would be a changed world.
I remember an article about you appearing in Texas Monthly, I thought about that when I read this deeply troubling and important article today in the magazine: http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/trouble-mind
I hope everyone can read the above story about a very mentally ill man on death row – a man so psychotic he has gouged out and ate his own eyes. A man Texas has judged “fit to stand trial” and sane enough to be executed. Our society comfortable being this man’s executioner! I wonder if the tragic events that led up to his imprisonment would have ever even happened if there weren’t more compassion and better priorities in this world. None of it had to happen, We let it happen because we lack compassion and a dedication to helping our fellow man who need it the most.
Society is judged on how we treat the weakest and neediest members, and America is doing a piss poor job at the moment.
I agree with that, but, do you agree with disconnecting from the disconnectors?
All the great missions, and many of the orgs, of the 60’s and 70’s were started by auditors coming back from doing the Briefing Course at St. Hill and starting to audit in the field. Once they had some cash flow from that they started Comm Courses, hired staff, and began to build organizationally. In those days there was no strong central management to lord it over them, and Scientology boomed. Some of the missions had 200 students on metered auditor training, and were pretty much left alone by Worldwide.
The Sea Org started in early 1968, and took about 10 years to become suppressive to actual tech delivery at the mission level. The basic problem was that it provided a mechanism whereby low-on-the-Bridge admin personnel gained authority and control over high-on-the-Bridge tech people. Not understanding Scientology, and having their own unhandled cases in the way, these managers were just incompetent, but culturally ferocious about it. It was Serv Fac City.
In rebuilding Scientology organizationally, all we have to do is keep tech people in charge, and avoid giving the authority to destroy to any central management body. That would actually be a proper application of the Broken Affluence Formula, by going back to what worked the best in our history.
I personally know all the field auditors at Karen’s dinner, and agree with you that they’ve already decided that they don’t want to come together to make an org. But I also believe that they should accept the fact that if we have any leaders, it’s them. That fact gives them a certain degree of responsibility to go ahead and lead. That doesn’t mean at the cost of sacrificing what’s working for them professionally. But who’s going to step up if they don’t? And if someone else who’s not an accomplished auditor tries to step up and lead in the formation of a real, producing third dynamic, who’s going to grant enough credibility to such a person to enable him to succeed?
The unavoidable truth is that we will not clear the planet, or individually escape it, without an organization. So, rather than everyone remaining stuck in the BPC of their bad experiences with COS, at least some of us need to just get that cleaned up case-wise, and then damn any remaining torpedoes and start rebuilding an organization that won’t repeat the mistakes that ruined the one we left.
This then enters us into the issue of the validity of LRH’s admin system. My viewpoint on it is that like any command and control management system, in the hands of totally sane staff it’s terrific, and in the hands of insane staff it’s horrendous. I differentiate it totally from auditing tech, which I’ve said we should implement exactly as intended by LRH. That’s because I’ve personally observed auditing tech to work great when properly applied by high-toned auditors and C/Ses. My observations about the admin system are different. I view it as a body of research that LRH never finished. Had he lived another 20 years, I believe he would have made large changes to it.
So, as we go forward organizationally, we need to update policy to preclude the incompetence and suppression that it enabled before. This is actually authorized by LRH in his own policy, notably the Danger Formula and Third Dynamic Engram clearing. It won’t be easy, because many Indies will want to cling to LRH policy as absolutely as they cling to Standard Tech in auditing. And others, who accept that policy needs to be modified, will then take that as permissioin to alter auditing tech as well.
It’s going to take high confront, intelligence, and sanity to keep the two separate, but we have no choice. If we don’t build organizations, we won’t clear the planet, and probably won’t escape from it ourselves. But if we do build organizations and don’t do certain things differently on the admin side, we’ll arrive right back with the situation we have now with COS. The bottom line is that everyone who says, “I’ve had enough of organizations for awhile,” is eventually going to have to also say to himself, “But you know, the way out is the way through. What turns it on turns it off. Get the pc through it.” I don’t know what the right time for that should be for each of us, but it has to happen at some point.
People think I’m tough. Laughter! I still have a lot to learn but the last few years has been a real good learning curve for me. Especially with the recommending reading from this blog. I also posted a success story, again. I have posted a few success stories here, not only mine. I noticed nobody protested about that. So the idea that theta and success stories are absent here has been dispelled. 🙂 I have seen MANY success stories published on this blog. They just are not labeled success stories. They are posts about the new A/O opening, people coming out from under the radar, people thanking others for information, stories of legal battles won, people rising above suppression. This blog is LOADED with success stories in almost every thread!
Thank you! That is beautiful!
Steering clear is a good idea. Starting a witch hunt and publishing declares is not the making of a new future. It was not my intention either. I just wanted to point out that Marty has under currents he also has to deal with. And he chooses not to harm attack and suppress people given every invitation to do so. He walks the walk. A lot better than I do!
“Many GO “crims” are alive and well and all over the place.”
And new ones are being groomed. What a mess!
Thank you Karen for all that YOU do. For the investments you have made into this planet and the people that walk upon it.
Hi Marty – you had recommended the History of Everything book which I enjoyed. I thought you might like Siddhartha by Hesse. A friend of mine, also declared like me, was pointing out how selfish Scientology and Scientologists are, There is a lot of truth to that, when you consider a person would rather disconnect from their friends and family than be denied the Bridge. In this book, It struck me how selfish Siddhartha was in his monochrome pursuit of spiritual freedom, willing as he was to leave family, friends, and groups he was part of behind to be come a perfected one.
It’s an interesting read, and well written. Enjoy.
Marty thanks again to you and Mosey for all your efforts
in your quest to move a little higher as that would un-
doubtedly benefit us all.
The Bridge should lead us up to knowing what/who we
really are and what/who the other person is. Then how
we all fit under the 3rd and 4th dynamic umbrellas and
after that all the other dynamics. All these interrelation-
ships. LRH outlined all of this but how are these all
bound together spiritually. We know a lot from the physical
sciences, the symbiotic relationships of 1st to 6th dyn’s
but not the 7th and 8th and possible other dynamics.
Even if you know ALL the basics, have some blow-out
wins where you transcend the physical universe and do the
most spectacular things in the MEST arena you seemingly
always fall on your face sooner or later. PTS, o/w’s, too much
agreement with the MEST particles et al.
So satisfaction comes in helping others.
Marrty my Friend, we never saw eye to eye. But i have to come to respect your resolve. Not that informal: You are a heck of a relaxed dude with a killer wife.
L Ron Hubbard was an ass sometines and he had some keen insight sometimes. You know I will always acknowlegde his contribution in spite of other people not being Scientologists.
Congratulations being in a position to write and think.
I love you both Niels
Well, I don’t think LRH ever spoke of eternity. Only in “from clear to eternity”, nowhere else. It’s not an LRH word.
And I think “from clear to eternity” is a forgery. It’s purpose is to promote OT levels (order of magnitude etc…) which are not existing. It was at this time an attempt to prevent customers to go to Mayo. They had to dream up something the “squirrels” didn’t have. Anyway this issue is full of threat, like christian hell “friendliest advise”. No LRH didn’t write it. Threat about eternity is not a scientology concept, no use to bother with this christian hell/paradise GPM shit.
Mimsey – it’s been years since I read Siddhartha by H. Hesse but it is loosely based on the story of the Buddha – its not biographically “perfect”
That said – the Buddha left his very rich and cloistered life so that he could learn the nature of suffering SO THAT he could help his fellow men/women also be free from suffering.
BTW his wife and son both became devoted followers … He left no one behind who wanted to be with him.
Hi Marty and Mosey – I’m so glad to hear that you’ve got Sugar Ray for a neighbor. You are both always in my heart and thoughts. I used to send money to your PO Box in Ingleside but couldn’t anymore after you moved.. I’ll be using PayPal now that I understand its guarantees anonymity. It won’t be much but it will be something. Marty, I’ve read all your books to date and look forward to the next. Thank you both for being there for me, for us.
That is a interesting device I am seeing more of of late: if you don’t like it, you just claim LRH didn’t write it.
Niels, I appreciate your acknowledging Hubbard’s plusses.
I read it decades ago. Great book. Yes, Siddhartha could have benefited – as all of us can – from a more integral approach.
I agree. This blog has always been all the way up at the top of the CDEI scale. The likes of us have chosen to walk the paths of miracles and wonders. Our lives have been filled with magic, hope, miracles, and vision. Some folk say they were folded or pulled into a Scientology. Perhaps they were.
But I think for those of us that choose to walk the path of miracles and wonder, the Scientology fell beneath our feet like a bridge. And so will any knowledge or magic that finds it way and it’s place on this path we choose to walk.
Windhorse, that’s really interesting. I’ll have to read that book.
My understanding was that Buddha left his wife and son when he began his path. Years later, following enlightenment, he returned with a band of followers. He wife began arguing with him – how could he leave her and his son alone like that? The Buddha reflected on this, and told his son to join him. His wife never saw either of them again.
When I heard this story, I questioned Buddha’s actions with someone in a local Buddhist temple. He immediately branded me ‘1.1’, and I was dog-piled by various anonymous commentors…
I’m just kidding. His grace and aplomb in handling my inquisitive nature, as well as the thought he gave the conversation, humbled me greatly. I’ve loved Buddhism ever since, and Buddhist philosophy has influenced my day-to-day behaviour greatly.
Reading your comment, I’m wondering where I first heard that story, and whether I have the wrong information about Buddha’s life. I shall order off Amazon…
Wow, interesting conclusion. Based purely on your “knowingness” apparently. LRH certainly wrote that issue.
Do you have others you assert he “didnt write” because you don’t like them?
He did direct people to outside sources, as in Adelle Davis and Les Dane.
I do not know of any knowledge source Hubbard ever censored in his scriptures. He may have stated his own opinions, but I can’t think of any place he ran a “can’t have” on knowledge and information in the red on white. Or even the Green on White.
Speaking of Can’t Have’s, “Can’t have the truth, and can’t have correct information” is Corp Scientology’s exchange with the world at this time.
Every time they plant a lie , they are putting forth a wrong item and a wrong indication on the comm lines of the world. This actually fucks people up to be given wrong items and wrong indications. They have been taught this yet they do it with enthusiasm.
People who publish false information actually give the reader a wrong item and a wrong indication. When you get groups or forums thick with this stuff, they actually destroy one another’s sanity with it. Publishing false information also falls under putting forward a false image. When you get people buying into a false image, you have given them a wrong item.
People think when your “friend” suddenly becomes an “enemy”, that is a tragedy. Nope. You have just been given the RIGHT item. You were thinking with a wrong item. Some people prefer to live with wrong items. It is NEVER healthy.
When you find an auditor publishing false information , giving people wrong items, that is big red flag. When you see an M.A.A. or a justice committee publishing false information (that is standard in the Church), you see that source putting wrong items and wrong indications on the entire group.
The truth does set you free because it clears the wrong items and wrong indications off your plate. Charge blows when you find the right items. Justice is fine when right items are given. When wrong items are given through “justice” it fucks up every bodies case whether it is out of session or not. Just read the policies on wrong items and wrong indications.
Frankly, anyone working as a volunteer does not fall into any avenue of justice. The help is voluntary not OWED. If someone thinks it is OWED they think Indentured slavery is copacetic.
Keeping that in mind, Marty’s efforts with his blog are voluntary. He does not OWE his thoughts, mind, direction or services.
diogenes, very nice post… and the earlier one too. Very nice.
You hit on the one thing, organization, that no one seems to have a clear cut answer of either what to do about it or a prediction of what it will be in the independent field…
You write very well, it’s easy to understand and I can say there is nothing I disagree with when you say we need an organization, etc…
But, the Independent field is growing and it IS missing much of a formal international “global” organization. It seems to basically operate in geographic pockets on the principle of by-pass and handle. “Just ignore the RCS and continue delivering auditing and training services.”
Maybe that is the evolution of the Indie movement? Apply the Danger formula and just do it? What do you or anyone else think? What more organization is needed and wanted by the Indie movement??
Hey Newcommer, my hand is also patting you on the back!!!
I was informed although Marty would know more ~~
Part of the IRS closing agreements was that the GO “Criminals” had been fired and “let go.”
Scientology INC resident Pit Bull Ken Moxon, un-indicted co-conspiriter is a current Miscavige go-to-guy.
IRS closing agreement (not sure if this was the Final Final version or one very close to the Final) was leaked to the Wall Street Journal…
Here’s a copy
Can you elaborate on what credential you have to state what LRH did or didn’t write ?
Here’s a little “how to” on how a “venturi vacuum” works:
Here are some illustations. Note that any peripheral access to the flow lets things get sucked into the flow. That’s why when you have a high flow, sometimes you suck Dev-T onto your lines! HA!
Robert, I agree with you. Right now the level of organization we need is just local field auditors growing into small Missions. Eventually those Missions would grow into Orgs, still controlled by the auditors who started them. This wouldn’t involve any global controlling management. But eventually these “mission holders” could join together in some kind of professional association with a central office serving the missions and controlled by them, rather than exerting control over them. Think of something like APIS but owned by the member missions and entirely devoted to serving their needs.
The main thing I’d like to see now is more Indie field auditors expanding their third dynamic vision, activity, and production the way the Briefing Course grads of the 60’s did. I know some of this has already started. I want to validate that and urge more of it. I’d also like to see some wealthy Indies step up financially to help productive, on-source field auditors with this evolution.
Another book I think you’d like is “The Tao of Physics” by Fritjof Capra. A great book on the subject of quantum physics and spiritual philosophy from mainly Eastern religious viewpoints.
Yes, you are right. These are wonderful, thougtful, insightful posts by Diogenes and BRENDASPENCER. Organization is a big question right now and so is training. There is very little training going on currently, compared to what it ought to be. And most of the independent field auditors these days are people trained years ago, some of them by LRH personally. What happens when these people are gone? The current C of S today, sadly, is pure poison as far as training is concerned. They are not producing any auditors now, although people do still get some gains from the tech, in spite of the so-called auditors and CSs and the “RTC”. I am afraid the current, suppressive C of S with its psychopath dictator must somehow come to an end, and, rich as DM is (or rich as the C of S is under his maniacal control is) I can’t conceive of that happening in the next few years. They are likely to keep limping along as they have been limping for years. Until that happens though I cannot see there being a real renaissance in the field with people learning the tech the way it should be learned, right up through the old, real Class XII.
One more song video post to this thread. Seems like good advice, support and encouragement for anyone. Don’t Let Nobody Drag Your Spirit Down.
Paul, I haven’t posted this in a while.I think it’s time to post it again for Marty, Mosey, their critters, and y’all here. Your poem called to mind Verse 11;
“To tell you to sing
you have never stopped
To tell you something you
don’t already know is hard
for in your giant laughter
and the road you carry
you lay before you.”
This is something from the 1970s, from the Golden Horses: Poetry for a New Civilization book, which is a collection of poems by Scientologists from the 1960s and early 1970s. This is by Russell Salamon.
I WOULD RATHER MAKE SIMPLER THINGS
Fire song bright day
free and young the sky.
I have been laughing in wind
speaking from the sea.
Flight of immortal dawn
breaks from my eyes.
Liquid immortal music of am
happy carrying the sun
in my tossing hands the sea
urns of unchanneled
mirth I spill and there is
a song of bright day, life.
Taking time from leaf,
I know it is here.
Breathing space from a flower,
it’s perfume shocks me into
lightning and I roar
like the endlessmost ocean
a song of life.
It is here in the palm of my
laughing. I carry the
universe in my own looking
and from the desire to be here
I make it bright and free.
Time comes from a laugh
and when I have killed you
or you have wronged me,
it comes from a laugh
we share over the long drink
of universe, an aside
in the home-bar where we drink
lightning and call it sunlight
and seeing sunlight we call it
Mirth dances wild,
show me your laugh and
I’ll show you mine.
Treasures of being shape
the round cup of galaxy,
I have been here often.
I see you singing trees and
water. I see you living
down your reputation
on the corner begging.
Immortal universe maker,
it is a good imitation of
defeat and so real that it is
and it pains me and I do not
wish to join you
and I will not join you.
I would rather make simpler
things like universes
where we can laugh and not
lose ourselves in the joy of
Liquid immortal music of am
burning bright the
round cups of leaves
to carry the stored sun
to bring heavy gifts of thunder,
stone, to oil the liquid sea
with blood of torn sun,
where we have stood divided
for so long
that to carry my love to you
I have to build immortal bridges
to speak my song to you
and hope that the unwashed
will peel from your ears.
Decayed time, it is no longer
water, creeps in stumbling
armies off to war. Solid laughter.
And to solve my love for you
I have sent warring hordes
to tell you, you are my friend.
And it is a heavy thunder
I burn for you
to tell you you are mine
and I will not harm you
I do not wish to harm you,
and I will kill you
if you don’t believe it.
Bring me liquid of your music
and I will breathe you,
for I need you.
Without you this joy is not
a game and without you
I cannot carry the song I build.
Without your eyes to laugh
I cannot carry the sun song
nor the bright earth
nor the languid or sanguine
war and love bring.
Without you to see with
I have no eyes,
no ears to touch you.
For we have been lost
by gnashing thunder and
broken heart’s beat
in the crushing green song
of a gone universe.
Each heart beat singes
the ravaged skeleton,
gnats feasting on boulders,
yet a defiant dawn lurches
forward, at great expense
we are singing.
We who are feasting
at our own celebration
can hear the roar
of the lost green thunder.
on the abyss carries a
wave of sun.
Liquid immortal music of am
moistens the roots of
From our own song is
and I can hear you
Carry your heart in the
I can bring you to the
verge of song
and there spill lightning
of your own freedom
whose dawn only you carry.
And is not he who sings,
And is not the place of
And are you not beautiful
are you not my friend?
To tell you to sing
you have never stopped
To tell you something you
don’t already know is hard
for in your giant laughter
and the road you carry
you lay before you.
From your laughter
you sow seas and life
and as you sow so shall you
Carry the dawn, carry
the hill-free dawn of am.
Carry the sunlight
singing rain and rivers.
Roaring black rocks
liquify. It is their
stored laughter to be
And in freedom burning
build a city that carries
from stone to dreams.
And there a city
home beyond rain
liquid immortal song of freedom
and the day is bright.
by Russell Salamon. Published in 1976.
That’s where the example comes in. When Scientologists see “SPs” doing well in life – having and actually raising kids, like the Rinders, Hedleys, and Halls, being free – the example does not jibe with what the Church says SPs are. When more Scientologists are doing well outside the confines and suppression of DM and the ‘Droids, this will sink in. It is sinking in now.
The answer is… Yes and No. Yes, I think there will be organizations – ideally allied with each other. But, no, there will be no central authority. That ship has sailed.
I believe this will do what it is doing now – grow organically. Large and small centers around the planet. All of them doing their idea of what Standard Tech is. As long as we are all open and honest about it, I think we will be okay.
The fights I have been seeing here about whether KSW is the product of the devil or the way of the future is a good discussion, but in my opinion, moot. For anyone to get pissed at someone else because they are not doing “KSW” is, to me, a wrong target and a bit silly, since we all are interpreting what we want Scientology to be, selecting some tech and policy and rejecting other tech and policy.
Unfortunately, there is going to be variance. But I trust us to get it right – or at least mostly right. For example, I do not recommend Internet Auditing – but, so what? People will do it, and some people will get wins from it, and some people will see it as the wave of the future, since technology gives us these great tools. For example.
The only thing we can do is do it, and get results. Some of us will band together, and some will fly solo-ish. I think all of us have to realize, though, that the days of Ron riding in on the White Charger and saving the tech are way behind us. Nobody and everybody owns this stuff. So, run with it and own it.
You are a saint.
That’s a great sign. Funny, I just thought of that last week, only for me it is “Enjoy the ride.” So true.
Your posts address key issues that need to be confronted. Thanks for taking the time to clearly lay them out.
That time is coming for sure.
IMHO your power and/or importance is as a whistle blower and former insider. All this dissecting of Scientology philosophy and technology is wasted energy, tedious and boring to all but a very small audience. My unsolicited advice is to get back to your whistle blowing roots. …
I agree Kevin, have even said as much amongst friends.
We love Marty and Mosey for a lot of reasons, most of us never have even met, and likely mostly for how much they have helped all of us generously to disconnect from the insanity of it all, and if that alone – is not a small point.
I myself am certainly in that group.
If, IF, IF, Marty and Mosey want to move on, then I say we let them. I don’t know, but it is far from my call their life.
In the end, I would remind Marty knows the Tech itself works as well as most any of us know.
Sad, sad sad, but true, is all I can muster.
What is the saying………….. coming out of the wood work, or some such.
Brilliant post and so true. The problem has been attacks from the Church, on missions and groups out here making efforts to practice their religion, because the Church wants taxes. They would rather see the planet not cleared than to lose out of taxes they enforce. They would rather see people not get auditing at all if they are not profiting. However, a class action law suit (by the way, there is a library of evidence) winning others the right to practice Scientology (it is our civil right) could straighten that out. Things have only expanded out here and it has been safe pointed as Marty Mosey Mike Karen and few others have been taking all of the heat. Once we win our right to practice our own religion without permission from the Church who insists on franchise taxes, we could open our own organizations and groups and advertise and hang out shingles. Unfortunately with all of the bad P.R. caused by David Miscavige, you might not be safe from your neighbors even if the Church is handled.
Dear Marty & Mosey;
Had no idea you two have been fending off attacks from within…I love and respect what you two provide in this blog. I don’t comment much because there are so many posts that say exactly what I’m thinking. Looking forward to reading your 1st two books and the one your currently working on. As I said several time before, I have your back dear friend.
Thanks Scott. Ordered it.
I realize that one who wanted to lay the entire responsibility for one’s well-being at the foot of LRH, could, if he or she, wanted to, READ what LRH said to this effect:
“… Scientology … promise[s] and authoritative insist[s] … that only it, to the explicit and must-be-agreed-upon exclusion of examination of any other data or technology, with scientific precision delivers ultimate truth.”
But, LRH never said anything like that.
LRH’s works were developed to bring one TO judgment, not take it away, and anyone who reads him as saying anything else is simply playing the victim.
I very much appreciate all of the whistle-blowing information you have hosted on your blog, for me it acts as a third dynamic clearing process, bringing group engrams to light where they can be viewed. In viewing them, their harmful aspects are reduced and often completely de-powered. Thank you for that!
I am grateful that you have chosen a direction that is expansive, inclusive and based on integrity. How can one have integrity living in a tissue of lies? Integrity is the essence of integral and integration. Thank you for having the courage to take up the guidon of integrity!
To Mosey: You are wonderful. You make this possible. I honor your willingness to put your shoulder to this wheel and to support this effort in a very real and truly beneficial way. How very lucky we all are to have you. You are a living testimony to the goodness of humanity, you are beloved.
I suggest you do a version of your book “What is wrong with scientology” with all OT data from the OT levels omitted , for scientologists who do not want to read that .
I want not recommend that book to scientologists because of the OT level material contained in it , if you deleted all that from the book then it would be ok for scientologists to read . IMO .
We already have the right to practice our religion freely. The only legal problems are with trademark and copyright law. A long series of court cases involving other religions has established that in the United States a church may trademark its name and the names of its services, and sue to prevent any splinter group from using those trademarks. A similar series of cases has established that a church may copyright its scriptures and then sue to prevent splinter groups from reproducing those scriptures.
These cases also upheld the right of splinter groups to practice their version of their religion freely, as long as they use names for their organization and services that are different from the church they spun off from, and as long as they do not reproduce the original church’s copyrighted scriptures. The thinking of the courts has been that any splinter group could easily come up with its own names, and easily rewrite its scriptures, and then proceed to practice its religion.
Doing that with Scientology presents a problem, though, because part of our religious practice is to read, duplicate, understand, and apply the exact, original words of our Founder. COS ownership of the copyrights to our scriptures thus inhibits our ability to practice our religioin. While that makes sense to us, right now it’s not a legal argument that would be likely to win in wog court. But if someone had hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep fighting COS and appealing for 10 years or more, all the way to the Supreme Court, its possible that we could eventually win.
Meanwhile, some Indies and Freezoners have claimed that COS failed to renew its copyrights on certain early materials. I don’t know if this is true or not, but it’s certainly something someone should get to the bottom of and let us all know about with certainty rather than speculation.
Trademark law is a little different. The intention behind trademark law is to eliminate confusion in the minds of consumers as to who is providing a product or service. A new peanut butter company can’t call its product “Skippy,” because Skippy Peanut Butter has been around for decades, and people expect it to be the product they know. But the Skippy company can’t trademark the term “Peanut Butter,” because there are lots of peanut butter companies, and the term has become generic in use.
The name of a religion can also become generic. For example, at one time all Christians were Catholics. But then the various Protestant denominations splintered off on organizational disagreements with the Papacy. Over many years it was firmly established that one could be a Christian without being a Catholic. So the Catholic Church can trademark the name “Catholic,” but not the name “Christian.”
If we get enough Scientology being practiced outside COS, we’d thereby eventually be able to break COS’s trademark on the word “Scientology.” But we’re a long ways from being able to do that.
For a lone field auditor or even a small group with a handful of students, it’s easy enough to avoid being confused with COS in the public mind, and to function with scriptures originally purchased from COS rather than reproduced. No one doing this has been stopped by COS legal action. But major Indie Orgs in cities all across the country would be another matter. They would be enough of a threat to COS to be legally attacked.
Those Indie Orgs would have the problem of providing their students with enough copies of original LRH materials, without making copies of them and thereby violating copyright law. Right now there are plenty of LRH materials floating around and available, but eventually the demand would far exceed the supply. Maybe this would be solved by our winning the copyright case in the Supreme Court, but maybe not. Maybe it will turn out that the pre-1980 LRH materials lost their copyright protection, but maybe not. So it seems to me that we can’t count on being able to use original LRH materials forever.
That leaves us with the necessity of creating and using rewrites. Those of us who were around in the 60’s and 70’s remember the great books by Ruth Minshull, Peter Gillham, and others, that were forbidden by COS as Miscavige was coming to power. More recently, Clearbird (a European Class 8) produced a textbook rewrite covering everything an auditor needs to know through Grad 5. He had several other Class 8 and higher auditors and C/Ses review it before publication, to make sure it was an accurate restatement of Standard Tech. It’s now available as a free download through his website. I’m not promoting the use of this book, just citing it as an example of what can be done.
The legal profession has a similar problem. The actual text of laws can be very complex, and most laws passed by legislatures today contain numerous additions and modifications to previous laws. So attorneys use books called Restatements, that summarize and simplify what they actually need to know, and present it in a user-friendly way. This also happens in science, with University textbooks being in effect rewritten summaries of the original research papers, and successive, updated editions of these textbooks coming out every few years.
I see no reason why we can’t do this, too, at least through Grad 5 and the Solo levels. The Briefing Course and Class 8 could remain as the chronological study of the original LRH materials. This would reduce the demand for COS copyrighted materials, while still preserving 100% adherence to LRH’s exact words in our technical leaders, who would review and certify any and all rewrites before use.
Last but not least is the issue of our name. Again, the legal issue is how to prevent possible confusion in the minds of consumers regarding who is providing the products and services they are buying. There’s certainly no problem for small groups to use names that avoid the trademarked words “Dianetics” and “Scientology,” and to change the names of the various courses to avoid trademark infringement. The problem would be in using trademarked words to name the whole loosely associated network of Indie practitioners.
So far it seems that use of the term Independent Scientology hasn’t been attacked. Maybe it sufficiently differentiates us from COS. Certainly in our minds it does. But it has to be established in the minds of the general non-Scientologist public as referring to services not connected to COS, and I don’t think that’s been accomplished yet. The name “Independent Reform Scientologist” might be more effective. That’s not a suggestion, just an example that came to mind
In this post I’ve tried to relay some of what I’ve found in my personal research on these issues. But my own resulting certainty is very far from being a finished product. And, I found a lot of incomplete legal research by others, charge-based fixed ideas and opp-terming, and glib know-best naivety.
There is also the rather astonishing lack of any authoritative report to Indies (a hat write-up) on what they can and cannot “get away with” legally. As more and more Indie auditors get active delivering, and small training groups get underway, wouldn’t it be a Vital Target for them to have certainty on their legal exposure, and strategies to minimize it while still being effective producing Auditors, Clears, and OTs? The absence of a Legal White Paper on these matters, prominently available through links on all the major Indie blogs, websites, and Facebook groups, seems to me to be a major outpoint, and in effect a violation of KSW-1, “having the correct technology.”
So, I’d like to urge all the Indie attorneys reading this to get to work pro bono to complete and publish the definitive Independent Scientologists’ Legal Ruds Hat Write-Up. You all know it will eventually have to be done for the court cases that will surely occur between Indies and COS on these issues. Wouldn’t it be far better to make sure in advance that we do everything the right way in the first place, so as to support our chances for victory over COS in those court cases?
Meanwhile, we already know enough to start and grow more small delivery groups. No one should hold off on producing while waiting for the definitive Legal White Paper to arrive.
I’m sorry, that doesn’t seem odd to you? That you feel compelled to ask Marty to censor himself regarding OT levels? Everyone and their brother, who has an interest, has read them. Every Scientologist should be allowed to know what they are getting themselves into before they spend the big bucks on the upper levels. He’s doing them a service.
We could always use the original books that David Miscavige ordered to be burned. Possibly even republish them as they were condemned by Miscavige as Hubbard’s overt products. Otherwise all of the materials are on the net. Clearbird has done a fine job. Once the copyrights have expired it will all be over. I think the purpose of the basics was to recopyrite. But the name Scientology itself is linked to too much oppression. They may have 40,000 members but they have millions of enemies. It would be better to create a new system and a new identity.
Great post by the way! XXOO
Very theta! Thanks for posting!
Maybe you and Marty and some others here have never really gotten restimulated , and i mean really restimulated , restimulated so much that you drop your body .
If you really knew how restimulative the OT level material can be Marty , you would not have published it in your book .
Marty , I suggest you do a survey on your blog to see what percentage of independent Scientologists agree with this , would LRH agree to this ! Why did LRH have the OT levels confidential !
Apparently the truth will set you free, up to OT3. After that it will kill you.
I don’t operate by survey; but thanks just the same.
I was exposed to OT materials long before and throughout my ascent on the bridge. Stop obsessing with the belief it will harm you, and you will be just fine.
Interesting. I’ve never read the OT Materials. And I did read Martys bool. There was nothing restimulative about it.
Because of the ridicule the OT III Materials in the previous couple of years, I was somehow greatful Marty brought this up in his book.
Just my 0.02 $
Cool. Let me know what you think. I bet your knowledge and understanding of the subject will allow you insights to his thoughts that most would not have.
Ah yes, those damn maxims do have a way of stepping on their own toes.
On a lot of references I can almost hear his voice, as if he dictated it on tape. This is one of those. I dont know if he did that at that time or if it was just his writing style.
Ok , thanks for that .
Unfortunately , not everyone is in the great condition that you are in , I know of people who would just go insane if they were exposed to OT materials , I mean I know of non scientologists who would just go nuts , I know they would .
I am not concerned about it harming me , but i am concerned about it being an overt for me to show that to another scientologist because it could come back on me . I suppose i could buy some of your books , tear out that chapter near the end of the book and give them to corporate Scientologists to read .
Would you be OK with that , if i done that ?
Where do you find out there were no levels beyond OTVIII and the Ls ?
Oh yeah , I read it in one of Marty’s books , but I don’t believe everything I read .
I never said there were no levels beyond VIII. There are simply no levels beyond VIII in Scientology.
I believe LRH done levels above VIII , he might not have shared them with the C of S and I think he knew what was going on there .
If I’m not permitted to examine what may be “true for me” then there is no way for me to know what IS true for me. The double bind in that requirement/denial is sinister and sadistic.
ealadha, are you freaking nuts? Get a grip! The OTIII material – words on paper. How scarey is that? Drop your body, indeed! Remember it is you who choose how to react.
TO – I love you! ROFLMAO!
In the early to mid nineties i was told OT material , i did not ask to be told that and as a result i got very ill and died . I almost did not get my body going again because the brain had started to shut down .
I am very lucky to be alive .
It is out ethics to be pushing OT material on people .
In my opinion people who do that should be arrested and thrown in jail and/or put in the Hole .
Simple logic. If the “upper OT levels” don’t exist as Marty said and as I also thought when it was not delivered after new OTVIII, then “From clear to eternity” cannot have been written by him as it promotes those supposed OT levels. He wouldn’t promote something which is not existing, no? Or did he became dumb after 1982?
So either “From clear to eternity” has been written by him and therefore those levels exist somewhere and we better find the documents, or they don’t exist, it’s all false, then LRH didnt write “from clear to eternity”. And yes MIke, it’s also my knowingness.
I used to really like what LRH was writing, always a good indication. When I read this, back in 1982, I was BI’s. It’s a threat of hell, not LRH style. He is not a chaos merchant.
Anyone is having a real proof this was written by LRH? You will admit that it is a contrary fact with the thesis that those levels don’t exist. To assume that it was LRH is to ignore the outpoint. Strings should be pulled.
I would advise you or anyone to learn very well the tech on how to de-stimulate.before reading any OT materials .
One of the ways to de-stimulate something that has keyed in , is to intend to do something and then do it and keep working that way , eventually it will key out . For example you could intend to cut your hedge ,and then just do it , don’t think about it , just do it . And if you keep working that way , it will eventually key out .
Two valued logic went out with the advent of Scientology and Quantum Theory.
It’s not two valued logic, it’s plain data series. How could LRH write a big bla on something which doesn’t exist? It simply doesn’t make sense.
Ealadha. I don’t suppose you go to many movies or read exciting books.