Independent Scientologists Community

I am confident that my friends who saw me evolve over the past couple years will attest that what I posted in February on my little web page was true. Particularly, the following description outlining my intentions and objectives:

A lot of folks seem to be suffering from the inculcated idea that once they depart or cease to slavishly follow every arbitrary dictate they automatically forfeit any spiritual gains they may have attained along the road. Natively conscientious as most beings are, such an evaluation can begin a pernicious dwindlng spiral of self-invalidation and unhappiness. I understand this phenomenon and the internal dichotomies extant within the organization that bring it about. In the process of reversing the decline in myself and in others certain lessons were learned that might be of some assistance to those who have experienced the same.

I offer a simple program of rehabilitation of previously recognized abilities and education on universal truths and principles of spiritual growth. I do not offer a substitute for Scientology nor am in competition with the Church. I am only offering to share all the skills I have learned – from a wide variety of sources – to help those in need who once formally participated in Scientology but who now hold no hope nor intention of ever seeking help from the Church.”

I was on no mission to replace the Church or even the Church leadership. It was purely an offer to help those who had made the determination that they would never again seek help from the Church of Scientology; for whatever reason.

Within days of that posting I caught wind of Miscavige efforts to pull the plug on that offer of help. Church informants reported on some of those who initially reached out to me. Those people were intercepted and offered large incentives to turn on me, turn over all communications with me, and to return under the control of the Church. When I did not attempt to compete for those souls, adhering to my word that I wasn’t interested in those even harboring a desire to remain under the control of Miscavige’s outfit, Miscavige had OSA send informants to try to infiltrate my home and life.

What I had posted was not a threat in any way, shape or form to Miscavige’s fiefdom. It was never intended to be competion. I meant what I explicitly stated about the category of people I was reaching out to. People that the Miscavige regime had zero interest in, other than apparently, in keeping in a dormant, sleeping, effect state.

His reaction confirmed what I believed to be true about Miscavige: the very concept of anyone helping someone – particularly for no motive other than purely the desire to help one’s fellows – was so abhorrent to him it caused irrational impulses to stop and destroy. “Helping others is an activity which drives the antisocial personality nearly berserk.” – LRH

Since that time a lot of water has passed under the Bridge. That includes a lot of Miscavige generated toxic waste. That also includes a lot of pure, clean and beautiful outpouring of theta from folks who fit the exact description set forth in the italicized text above.

Several people have challenged me to demonstrate that I am able to take over Miscavige’s position or to create an organization mirroring his. I do not have any desire to do either. Some people have criticized me of irresponsibility for exposing the truth about Miscavige’s church without offering all the bells and whistles of Church membership they find comforting or necessary. People who are in it for the bells and whistles probably ought to stay parked right where they are. Ultimately, they will be served nothing but bells and whistles.

I have learned quite a lot since February. First, there are far more people who consider themselves Scientologists, or at least use what they learned from Scientology in their every day lives, who fit the description of having no intention of ever again being affiliated with the Church than I initially thought was possible. Second, many of those people fear retribution if they publicly discuss their feelings on the subject. Third, many of those people lead unhappy lives because they miss the ability to share community with others of similar philosophic disposition; a subset of that group, may have also suffered financially by having to cut ties with business networks they nurtured for many years. Fourth, some portion of that public are ill physically and spiritually because they have dwindled down to apathy and below and found refuge with the only ex-Church member forums that have existed – ones that make anonymity and hiding a virtue, and make criticism an end, rather than a means to achieve any improved state of affairs.

When I started blogging more and more people contacted me about helping them to reverse the spiral they found themselves on. In order to cope with such an overwhelming number of individuals, I began simply connecting former Church members up with similar thinking ones in proximity to one another. Lo and behold, such people began to report to me truly phenomenal phenomena. Here is a list of the types of things they have reported more than once:

  1. A rehabilitation of states attained in Scientology by simply having someone acknowledge with reality what he or she has been through.

  2. An enhancement in states attained through Scientology by now receiving regular acknowledgment of theta phenomena that up to that point they had no one to share with who could truly understand and appreciate it. Sadly, many folks have reported being invalidated by Scientology public and staff for such origins when they were affiliated with the Church.

  3. Feeling de-pts’d by virtue of feeling some strength in numbers – even if the increase went from one to two – and all that comes with that.

  4. Physical disabilities healing. Not a bit surprising to me. In the Church’s “Freedom” magazine in response to the St Pete Times Truth Rundown series, my former wife attributed a long list of physical problems I had the year I left the SO. It was one of the few relatively accurate statements of that scandal sheet. All of those ailments rapidly resolved upon my cutting all connection to the SP.

  5. Great artistic, career, and or business opportunities suddenly appearing, attributed by people reporting them to beginning to socially network again with newly discovered friends sharing their philosophy.

  6. The increase in frequency of OT perceptics and abilities.

I don’t have ultimate answers to questions of how to set up widespread, uniform delivery of the tech, nor how to administer whatever form that might some day take. I don’t even purport to have the background, training or experience to answer such questions.

I do know that I have been working on an Ethics paradigm – sometimes referred to as Ethics Program Number One. I do know that I have seen many people rise from apathy and below to 4.0 and above on the Tone Scale as they become de-PTSed from Miscavige’s Church. Most of those people never received a formal session nor even had the opportunity (yet) to meet in person. The several I have met in person tend to confirm my estimate that most folks reporting incredible gains by handling the suppression in their lives are not exaggerating.

I am of the view that those phenomena listed as 1-6 above have been suppressed in Miscavige’s Church. I do not have the slightest hesitation in continuing to facilitate more free, independent Scientologists experiencing what appears to be the miracles attainable with the subject when studied in the fashion Hubbard originally advised it be done. That is with a keen, critical, and independent mind. That increases the ability to as-is. Isn’t that what the entire aim of the subject is, to increase people’s ability to as-is?

Having operated with this viewpoint, I have been pleasantly surprised to learn of another natural, positive byproduct of as-ising lies with truth and making it safe for the well intentioned to congregate and share ideas. I have learned that there are a number of very capable folks who are approaching the subjects of tech and admin in the same fashion I have tried to approach Ethics. They are not motivated by money. They are not motivated by fame. They are motivated purely by making it possible for others to experience gains similar to their own.

I believe that the behavioralism, twisted moralism, materialism and induced fear of disclosure of confidences practiced as standard operating procedure in Miscavige’s church are the reverse of Scientology. Those practices increase mental mass, and convince a person he needs to become a slave in order to become free. All too often, rather than increase one’s ability to as-is, it results in people who specialize in creating mental mass for others (guilt, fears, self-invalidation, and for those who have been to Int for any substantial period, actual text book engrams).

People who have simply exercised their abilities to be there and comfortably confront when faced with Church intimidation tactics – and not allowed themselves to be drawn into flash fights and the resultant creation of ridges – have as-is’d the invaders. That has happened most frequently when the person being targeted by the Church has the comfort of knowing he has people who are behind him or her with unconditional love. It is quite remarkable.

I am fairly certain that if a decent percentage of independent Scientologists stand up, identify themselves, and freely associate with like-minded friends in the light of day at least three things will happen:

    a. Many individual lives will regain meaning. Many more lives still will reap the gains from each of us who independently and freely use Scientology with no other motivation than to help others reach higher states of beingness.

    b. Scientology (the subject and community) will experience a renaissance within society at large.

    c. Miscavige’s church will be forced to either radically reform by reversing its suppressive operating basis or face its inevitable demise (note the intransitive is used; it is not because of anything that you or I will do to it that will cause it other than being their comfortably – it will be a self-inflicted fate).

At this point, at this Ethics stage,  I am advocating  that independent thinking Scientologists think hard about being proud of exercising their independence. That they make themselves known and use the title “Scientologist” without shame or embarrassment. That they create community with other independent Scientologists and make it that much safer for those people to get their strength up and flourish. To the extent we tip toe around imaginary egg shells, we are PTS. We cripple our own ability to as-is. If we walk tall, we rehabilitate one another’s abilities to as-is. The Lord knows that this world could use some more of that.

87 responses to “Independent Scientologists Community

  1. Allen Stanfield

    Marty wrote:

    “Fourth, some portion of that public are ill physically and spiritually because they have dwindled down to apathy and below and found refuge with the only ex-Church member forums that have existed – ones that make anonymity and hiding a virtue, and make criticism an end, rather than a means to achieve any improved state of affairs.”

    I’m wondering if you really mean what you say here. Do you really believe that the people who have contributed to those forums over the years have a lesser purpose than yours?

    Isn’t one man’s “natter board”, another man’s “exposure of suppression blog”?

  2. martyrathbun09

    Doesn’t apply to those contributing something of use to others. Does apply to those who sit back, look for one small passage to criticize, then fixate on it to denigrate as an end as opposed to as a means to achieve some purposeful end.

  3. Allen Stanfield

    The purpose of my question was to build a bridge.

    There are lots of people on the “natter boards” who have the same purpose you have, and have contributed things that many people have found very useful over the years.

    I think it is much more constructive to try to bridge these differences than to dispose them to the lower depths of the tone scale.

    Don’t you?

  4. Thank you Marty! An ack is in order. And what a neat and deserved validation of your instincts and knowingness! It is very cool to find a brotherhood/sisterhood in this medium and what is there to be created – in an environment free of inval and confusing messages — is going to be awesome! This is developing, growing, expanding. This is “case gain”, exactly! On the first as well as the third dynamics. And I am a proud Scientologist! 🙂

  5. Touche’ Marty! Nicely said.

  6. Hi Marty,
    You are hitting home with me on your communication here. I see this as sort of a big non-e formula. What I need and want is a group of people who like the tech but hate what is going on in the Church. Our group could do the things that we can’t get in the COS. Such as granting of beingness , ARC, and all the other good things that LRH promised the world. I thought of something today about how many staff will say that a person is “middle class PTS” if they want to have good finances. I am sick of playing this game with the COS. The constant inval if you don’t donate to their Ideal Orgs etc., etc. I want to be part of a group who can share wins and flourish and prosper and use whatever tech they can without breaking the laws of the land. I don’t wish to be hounded by the COS if they have the legal right to harass someone that is braking some legal right that they have monopolized. It disgusts me that the COS headed by DM wants to monoploize the tech. I would like to be part of a group that does all they can to coordinate and fight the out-ethics in the COS. I would like it if this group provided legal options for those who may have lots to lose if they get in a legal battle with the COS. Once I am up the conditions in this new group, it would be great to have occasional get togethers for friendship and coordination on new strategies. I feel that you have no obligation to do what you are doing. I think you are doing it because you are a good being. I understand what you are trying to do and I for one appreciate it very much. I would rather be in a group of 100 truth seekers, rather than a group of thousands of sheep following DM into darkness . I know a lot of the followers can be handled to see the out-ethics. My postulate is that DM gets his ethics in and takes himself off post. I don’t think that will happen until our group puts enough pressure on his bank so that we unmock it.

  7. I agree with Marty on this one.

    Here is what LRH says in Data Series #12, 5 July 1970:

    (begin fair use): “The mental awareness that something is wrong with a scene is the point at which one can begin reverting to the ideal scene.

    Without that awareness on the part of a GROUP then an individual can be much impeded in handling a situation.

    The mental processes of the person seeking to improve things toward an ideal scene or change them back to an ideal scene must include those who are also parts of the scene.

    Seeing something wrong without seeking to correct it degenerates into mere faultfinding and natter. This is about as far as most people go” (end fair use).

  8. Allen Stanfield

    Let me say that Marty’s post, overall, is exactly what I have been trying to achieve, and to help others achieve, in terms of independence from the Church’s tyranny, since I left 9 years ago.

    There are too many common purposes, and common strengths, shared by Ex-Scientologists, Independent Scientologists, and even present COS members, to assign insulting and denigrating tone levels to any one of them.

    While there may be disagreements, there are many more things that we all agree on.

    I think it is much more important to build bridges.

  9. Allen,
    I think the central point in this article is the ability to as-is must be recovered and exercised.

    If these bridges are to be built then it must be on the same basis. As-isness. Not alter-isness, not, not-isness.

    The other boards served to give a means to communicate and with more communication, more live comm, and the exercise of native ability to view and be true, I can see the ridges evaporate. How about that?

  10. Undisturbed,
    That’s a perfect quote. Thank you. I’ll be working on that one.

  11. Allen I think you miss the boat (big time) the tech works there are those in Marty’s side who are standing up for standard tech and the application of KSW and everyone else who thinks it’s somehow ok to squirrel degrade invalidate and suppress. The bridge is built – the question is do you agree with Keeping Scientology Working?

  12. Allen Stanfield

    I like that, Jim.

    I think its possible to achieve that.

    Thanks for your tolerance and willingness to keep trying.

  13. Dear Marty,

    You are creating an amazing effect inside and outside the CoS that no one has ever been able to achieve. You are brave and fearless.
    You are setting a great example for the rest of us to follow.

    Our group is getting bigger and more on-purpose. We’ll keep this up until DM is OUT and the true Tech is saved.

  14. Allen Stanfield

    No, I don’t.

    I’m not a Scientologist any more – of any kind. But I am very willing to build bridges with Scientologists, of all kinds, in pursuit of constructive common purposes.

    I believe that’s possible.

    Do you?

  15. Very cool Marty.

    What you’ve done is given me hope, that the light at the end of the tunnel isn’t an oncoming train.

  16. Marty, Thanks for posting your thoughts here.

    Having worked in the Sea Org for years and having been out for quite sometime due to my utter disgust with what DM was doing, I am thankful that you and others have stepped forward to take somewhat the lead on exposing DM’s suppression and alteration of Scientology.

    I asked a mutual friend today who was raised by LRH what they thought LRH would want us all to do. The answer was “Get rid of DM and get back on Source.” I completely agree.

    Over the years, some of us had been waiting for someone like you and Mike Rinder to speak out after finally leaving that suppression. There is strength in numbers and anyone else out there who is reading your posts and is sick and tired of what DM is doing to tear apart Scientology, families and people’s lives, it is never to late to join the cause and make a difference.

    DM ultimately gets his power from the people he has conned into believing that he is indispensable to the future survival of Scientology. By getting the truth out there, more and more of these Scientologists will begin to open their eyes and stop giving their hard earned money to this SP and his perversion of the aims and goals of Scientology as laid out by LRH.

    The more sunlight given to what is really going on, will ultimately seal DM’s doom.

    Any of you reading this who are sitting on the fence, it is time to speak out to your friends and family in Scientology and get them to stop funding this guy’s suppressive activities. You don’t necessarily have to do it overtly if you feel unsafe. It works just as well operating under the radar.

  17. Allen,
    I think it’s emminently possible. I’ve stated very clearly, on the boards and blogs I’ve posted on, I’m a Scientologist. I use Scn tech, admin, and ethics on the world around me. I’m not enturbulated and I’m doing my job. When it comes to tolerance, some on a couple of these boards/blogs might argue I’m not very.

    I’m ‘longer in the tooth’ now, having gained experience. I know Scientology works and the purpose of ethics/reason, is to get technology applied for the express result of no longer needing any external ethics applied: the being has reached his own native reason.

    That’s a point of KRC for me. It’s a point of my own responsibility for the dynamics that is my journey.

    I don’t have a lot of tolerance for things that I know aren’t workable when it comes to Scientology. I’m a Safeguarding Technology/KSW kind of feller. Again, experience has brought home very important lessons.

    I’ll keep trying for all who sincerely try along with me. I’ll hold the door open for those who don’t. I’ll wear my hat as a Scientologist and guide over the hurdles. I can do that because of my certainty.

    Honestly, with all that has transpired in the last year, I’m ecstatic about the future.

  18. Allen,
    Beings can live and work together in a prosperous culture without having the same point of view or viewpoint. It’s a question of granting beingness.

    Whether or not you call yourself a Scientologist or not, constructive common purposes can align us as people and we as people can make our future so I don’t see any problem.

    (We make those too, as you may recall from the time you were a Scientologist.)

  19. Dear Marty

    Good post. But somewhere you mentionned Facebook as a Network. What were your intentions ? I made a short survey of it. There several 10 000 nds of scientologist that can be communicated to !
    A question . If you google the words “Golden Dawn” or “the golden dawn lectures” you get hits about Illuminaties and some new esoteric order etc… Do you think this is intentional or is that just a coincidence ? And at gold did they realise what they were doing when naming the new series Golden Dawn Lecture ?

  20. When writing KRs it is probably more effective to write them on the individual, rather than on “COB” or “RTC”. This bypasses the ser-fac; directly target the scientologist you are writing to for going into agreement with DMs suppression (if he/she is) whether by contributing to the Ideal Orgs pgm or agreeing to hand over a credit card to the IAS or whatever. It may seem cruel, but will more liekly jolt them into waking up more effectively than ccing them on a KR on COB etc.

  21. Underground For Now

    Alex…….wrote in part, “…I would rather be in a group of 100 truth seekers, rather than a group of thousands of sheep following DM into darkness…”

    This statement needs to be in caps and bold colored letters.

    The future looks very bright for “TRUTH SEEKERS” and I am very proud to be part of this group, even if I am Underground For Now.

    I will be going public sooner than later, once I figure out my strategy.

  22. Allen Stanfield


    I would like to see every Scientologist get their rights and lives back from the Church. Scientologists need to enact reform on the Church to make the ideals of Scientology possible again.

    Underground For Now – I know what you mean. There comes a point when you realize “Why would anyone ever stop being the very same seeker of truth that got them into Scientology in the first place?”

    Good luck on your strategy to delete the tyranny of the Church from your life. I hope to see you around once your handlings are done.


  23. Your goods and services, or group, is going to need a name–if for no other reason than to use to apply for tax exempt status with the mission “life repair for victims of the other exempt org Scientology.”

    “Truth Seekers” is too common.

    I propose calling the program, or religion, “Spark!”

    Former Scientologists could call themselves “Sparkists”.

    This mission of healing is too important not to have a good name.

  24. Legal incorporation/registration of Independent Church of Scientology (non-squirrel) in the making?

  25. “Fourth, some portion of that public are ill physically and spiritually because they have dwindled down to apathy and below and found refuge with the only ex-Church member forums that have existed – ones that make anonymity and hiding a virtue, and make criticism an end, rather than a means to achieve any improved state of affairs.”

    I think you got it wrong here Marty. People on ESMB recover their freedom from years of lies and suppression from Co$. People don’t dwindle down to apathy, quite contrary they mostly rise up-tone because years of incongruencies in the Co$ are finally making sense. There are well respected pro-tech people on ESMB like Leon, Alan, RogerB. Scientologists are welcome too. The only people banned are those trolling with a desire to harm other members. In fact I saw much more granting beingness done on ESMB than on pro-LRH Tech forums.

    I ask you to read these threads and then ask yourself if these are people “dwindled down to apathy” that “make criticism an end”, or rather people rising up-tone and achieving a freedom to think and speak their mind that is/was not granted in the orthodox Scientology.

    If you deny a value to ESMB after reading those threads you will leave me disappointed Marty!

    About the rest of your post, I am with you. I’m happy to see an increasing community of free Scientologists, out of Co$ cage, who use Scientology as it was meant to be, and I am taking my own little actions to make your blog known to unhappy on-line Scientologists.

    Thank you.

  26. For a standard and effective handling – write KRs on what you have seen or observed that has been off source by DM and send them to FSO, FLO and CMOI. Anything. If you think the “Ideal Org” is off policy, state the policy that is being violated and what is being done. If you have seen hug sums of money wasted, KR it. With tons of these KRs pouring in, an effect will be generated.

  27. PS, this hasn’t been shown to be too effective. The FSO, FLO and CMOI are never wrong! Especially in DM’s valence! Ser facs kick in as I said above. Instead, write KRs on scientologists that you personally know who are supporting/following off-policy and out-tech such as OTC members regging for buildings or regging local public for Flag – anything you have personally observed and make them responsible themselves. It impinges.

  28. Come on ML these guys call themselves “Ex Scientologists” which sorta gives you a clue of where their heads are at!

    As far as “granting beingness” that only applies until you say something laudable about Ron or the tech and then its a patronizing cacophony of efforts to make you “see the light” “open your eyes” or read Miller’s turgid tome.

  29. I believe there is another part, alluded to by Marty and indirectly touched upon in these responses. When we were in organized Scientology, and especially for those raised in it, there is a special bond, a kinship and comradely very strong and brutal when lost and denied. The loss of friends and freedom to talk can be as damaging as or even more damaging than any out tech or human rights violations. Hundreds and even thousands of shared experiences were had … good, bad and indifferent. I know people still in Scientology not because they want to go up the bridge, or like the church as it is right now, but because they don’t want to loose often, what are the only real deep and meaningful friendships they have.
    Providing there is mutual respect for each others opinions and positions, everyone can get along.
    On ESMB, I don’t know that Marty or anyone else could say that it is bad or not good, but elements of it are, IMHO, damaging and destructive. One of these is some people want to provide sympathy and comfort which can under some circumstances make someone feel or continue to feel like a victim. The truth is we all have some personal responsibility in what happened in our lives on all flows, and to recover must take that responsibility. People will respond to this concept: Bullshit, you are saying a rape victim is responsible for being raped. The reality is things happen in life, some we can control and others we can’t. But we can change the meaning, to us, of what happened to each of us. Do we let a bad thing leave us a broken victim, or do we use the energy of it to empower ourselves, learn, and create new meaning and awareness for ourselves?
    The other negative that can be perceived from ESMB and others is that nasty and negative and degrading messages and writing from some people. From a position of anonymity they say rude and degrading things that they would never say directly to a persons face or if their identity was known. Anonymity has a power or amplification effect which requires the responsible user to tread very lightly on threatening or derogatory action.
    The concept of providing a safe space and environment where past and present scientologists of good heart can work together to support each other in personal and professional growth is incredibly beautiful.

  30. martyrathbun09

    I agree with your thoughtful comment. A passage from Clay Shirky’s Here Comes Everybody comes to mind:
    “…people are basically good, when they are in circumstances that reward goodness while restraining impulses to defect. The rewards and restraints can be quite simple and small, but in big groups with relatively anonymous actors, they need to be there or behavior will decay over time.” I think amongst Scientologists, losing the anonymity alone is enough to restrain reactive impulses to harm.

  31. Another thought is there are many old-timers here who either directly worked with LRH or were in the organization when LRH was alive and running the show. Sooner or later this generation will be gone, and a new generation of Scientologists who never knew or worked with LRH will be running the Orgs and Int Mgmt.

    This new generation of Scientology leaders will have no direct knowledge of the prior Scientology scene. Certainly not everything was ideal in those days, but I believe many of us believe the Church was closer to reaching that ideal scene in the older days than it is now. It is easier for us to perceive the outnesses existing in the Church today, because we have an entirely different viewpoint of what the ideal scene of the Church could and should be.

    The new generation, not familiar or even able to envision this ideal scene of Scientology, may very well substitute the current scene as being ideal. They can’t see the outnesses! And the oppression and heavy handed tactics and other perceived outnesses will just continue as business as usual.

    So it is important that we old-timers communicate our vision of what Scientology can and should be like. We can leave an incredibly important legacy to the future if we can do that. Without it our heartfelt belief in the goodness and worth of the Church of Scientology may be lost forever.

  32. Allen,

    See my longer response below. Something that can seem difficult to execute is an evolution or improvement in an existing situation, especially when that existing situation was a quantum leap over what existed before. Most view ESMB, ESK, OCMB even WWP as the first quantum leap. I used all of these boards personally to help myself heal and gain perspective, but to some degree feel I outgrew them because I wanted to do something about it not just talk about it, do nothing, and get tons of very geniune and sincere compassion and sympathy for the screwed up stuff that happened to me.
    It seems, not only from what Marty writes, but also your comments and the innumerous other participants in these discussions, that what is being proposed here is the next evolution.
    It has been pretty clear that the goal of this new social network is not to attack the church or the tech, or even DM, but to give free thought, open communication, genuine relationships, an embracive and open forum that celebrates the positive and allows for transition to the “real world” or “physical universe”. People helping people in a most positive form. Creating a safe space and support that empowers and helps people coordinate and get on with doing what needs to be done.

  33. martyrathbun09

    I wholeheartedly agree.

  34. martyrathbun09

    I agree with you. That is where I am trying to go. Please bear with me over the next three days wherein a very serious Ethics matter needs to be addressed and aired. I had a feeling it was about time for this; and the evidence arrived to make it a necessity to address. My premonition it would arrive is what lead me to suggest people start “thinking hard” about coming out, knowing their might be a brief interruption. But, hopefully we’ll be strongly focused on the more important subject (the one you are contributing to so greatly) by mid week.

  35. Marty, nice job on many fronts. I hope it comes to pass, that those inclined can gather feeely and discuss freely without concern from any organization or arm of one. But I dont see it happening until the mother church takes a huge chill pill and is reorganized. Seriously reorganized.

    Nothing stays the same, right. So neither will the church. The momentun is towards opening up the commlines. I think that will happen. Eventually anyone sitting on and suppressing commlines that carry truth will end up being the loser.

    I have been out for 30 years almost. I stopped considering myself a scientologist. It was relegated to just being a part of my lifes journey. I took that position because the net effect of my involvement was zero. Some good things, some bad. I have no intention of ever being involved again as I found the organization to be one which treats the individual as expendable. And that was part of LRH’s MO, the group comes first. I believe the means are important, not just the end.

    But i knew the truth when i read it and i knew LRH gathered and organized lots of it into useful ways and means of application. I dont buy into all of it, but what was good I use because its logical and right to use it.

    If there ever was a place to go where one could relax and get into the subject with others of a like mind, I would probably stop in.

    We are all on a journey, yours has been highly visible and so it seems it will continue to be. I wish you a good jouney in the hope it will have positive results. Its a crime that it came to this. Thats the problem with letting men have powerful tools and authority. It often goes badly. But in the end the truth prevails. God Speed.

  36. If you want to freely use and promote the Tech, thank LRH and the other contributors for it and search for the truth and what works discarding what doesn’t (even if written by LRH), I’m in.

    If you want to glorify LRH as the only and Holy Source and deny he ever lied and abused people, or if you are on a mission to “Clear the planet” and make ‘Scientology policies’ rule the world with authority to dispense OT levels (whatever real benefit they give) only to ‘Gold Meritorious IAS Patrons’ and yes-men, I’m out.

  37. martyrathbun09

    I appreciate your thoughts. I hope what we come up with makes it easy for you to perhaps connect with old friends and maybe even rehab some latent wins.

  38. I have to admit that “being PTS” indicated to me.
    It needed some time to work through for me.
    But DM does not indicate to me. I was not at Int
    and never met him. Too much vias.
    I somehow have a different track than you and have
    to work out my own terminals.
    To be honest, I cannot perceive DM. But by my experience
    as Ethics Officer doing string pull: be at least prepared
    for possible surprises. DM plays the role of being on
    top and the cause of the situation. But that might not
    be the entire truth. Hopefully those saying they are
    behind you are still behind you if things get really
    good luck

  39. Hello Marty old friend,

    I think these are very compelling sites, yours and those you list, I’m glad they are here. There are some points I’d like to make. Something I want to contribute. I’m originating for the first time, so bear with me. First I want to thank you for what you are doing. Who I’m I will not reveal yet, it is the greatest good at this time, but you know me and I you. I have always respected you immensely and, I have no complaints resulting from your dealings with me while you were on post. Let me mention that these web sites a great resource, one that Scientologist can understand and relate to, one that will in fact de-PTS many because it contains the truth. There are 2 data that seem specially apropos here, one is the idea that “pulling of with holds, even if done this way, brings about case change” stated, believe it or not by DM in 1993 at ‘The War is Over’ event and referring to the IRS expose in USA today, but which echoes basic LRH data and which I think is true, even if DM said it.

    Another datum is in PTS tech, LRH says something to the effect that to handle suppression one must shine the light of truth on the SP. These sites accomplish that and facilitate it. I knew these things were happening to a degree for they do occur in middle and lower levels, but I was sure it was not known by RTC or Int Management. When I found out the truth, I was blindsided – really, I never saw it coming. I have been writing KRs thinking RTC would sooner or latter find them and fix the situation. What a rude awakening! and I know other inside Scientologist will experience that too. It has been a process and a lot has shifted in my universe since I first heard the truth. Fortunately my spouse is such a great terminal, we really are on the same awareness level, we put ourselves back together by consulting LRH and communicating.

    Somewhere among the various postings, someone said WE all failed LRH by allowing this guy to destroy our church as much as he has and we need to fix it. We couldn’t agree more, if one reads KSW well, one will understand that LRH intended all scientologist to take at least some responsibility for the Church and the technology he worked so hard to give us. And so it is up to us to right the wrongs. I feel that posting on any of these sites, is contributing to that motion, reading and lurking is part of that, because it starts the confront, de-PTS process and I’m sure you know it is a process. Up till now it seemed there was no place to find this information in a way that wasn’t HE&Ry. It is very difficult to try to gleam the truth among the angry postings of a group of people who no longer see the value of the tech and seek to alter it or destroy it. Though some there may have something to say of interest to Scientologist, the Invalidations, generalizations, and specially LRH bashing make it so that those of us who are daily helping others with the tech and improving our life with the tech, discount those forums completely. So Lurkers, are confronting the truth many like me for the first time. Believe me it is very much a process.

    You are very right when you say that Scientology haters are DMs best friends, we who have genuinely experienced the great benefits of the application of the technology are repelled completely by these people’s postings. A cursory look on the net makes it so must scientologist just don’t look in the net anymore. Postings full of invalidation, evaluation, denigration, LRH bashing, insistence of the “evils of Scientology” and generalities, simply strengthen our resolve to keep on in spite the various obvious out points, since it seems saner than the ranting on the net. Many will find this upsetting, but it true, if you want to reach Scientologist, Marty’s is the way to do it.

    The only reason we (my spouse and I and I suspect other inside, on lines Scientologist) even paid attention, is because it was You (Marty, Mike and Tom) speaking, we know you, we know you are honest and we felt we could expect something sensible if you were to be heard on what you might have to say. And once we heard you, it was a shock, but many things begun to make sense, many of the out points we had been noticing are explained. This phenomena is what makes these sites unique and so effective. The more exact time, place form and event we can put on these pages, the more effective this effort will be. I want to emphasize that. The more speculation and assumption entered here, the less effective it becomes, most scientologist will heed specifics and ignore generalities. And most Scientologist are aware of the outpoints and are looking for answers that are logical and do not invalidate the major gains they have had with the tech.

    For this reason I suggest that those who feel scientology is all bad, or even, are doing something other than shining the truth and providing specifics, do so elsewhere, Marty you mentioned before, that they have plenty of places to do so, and this forum is NOT the place to challenge the existence or lack thereof of a “Fair Game Policy”, or the validity of LRH’s tech, or even Marty’s intentions. It is also not the place to post trying to “build bridges” with people who think Scientology is good thought they don’t thinks so themselves. Really, there are MANY places where it is being done Ad nauseam and those interested in discussing those topics are free to continue to do so in the thousands of forums in existence for that purpose. To do so here is counter productive and off purpose.

    If anyone will right the wrongs, it is Scientologist from within, and sane, caring and understanding non-scientologist from without, who support this efforts and are able to understand what is actually occurring.

  40. Thanks a lot. I am looking forward to meeting again.

  41. Agree, RJ, they call themselves “Ex-Scientologists”. It says it all. It’s not a forum for Scientologists. Some of the most active posters on ESMB never were in Scientology. They have no first hand experiences. Pro LRH Tech Community is the forum for Scientologists.

  42. Can you imagine if we got things back on track and things like the RPF took weeks or at most a few months (I spent years in the RPF), that would be awesome and if all the 2D arbitraries were out of the way? It would make it worthwhile to be in the SO again! I could see putting a board of directors to run scn with sanity get rid of the IAS and end the endless events implement management evals and stats! It will be great again!

  43. Your right about that Jane I was asked to join and took one look at the site and found that if they weren’t nattering about the Tech. They were nattering about Ron and I said thanks but no thanks besides I still consider myself a Scientologist.

    To me they’re pretty much ARS or OCMB lite, less filing but same taste. If ya know what I mean 😉

    Hey I’m all for freedom of speech, but it works both ways. I don’t have to read it 🙂

    Anyway the following excerpt from their FAQ on their message board pretty much says it all:

    “I believe anyone who has been exposed to Scientology for any length of time has had damage done.”

    Yeah whatever.

    Anyway, I love the cool people that hang out on Marty’s board like you of course. I think Marty has created a very sane space here and I’m happy to be part of it.

  44. We are the ones who can change the conditions we have. If we see something and do not do anything to correct or handle it, sooner or later it will fall on our plate. And remember, the future is ahead of us, and guess who is going to be there? Yes. We are!
    So let’s make this group a better place to be, a better place to comunicate and spread out THETA!! Marthy, I agree with you.

  45. What I see developing here with the ideas Marty writes about is a community rather than and organization. And if you look at the history of the “movement” (Dianetics/Scn), you’ll note the very beginning days were all about a community of people just coming together and helping one another. No organizations. I think that paradigm, and Marty correct me if I am wrong, of a community of like-minded people just helping one another out as the senior function with perhaps a few, or many if the demand is there, enterprising and tech savvy members within the community who want to set up a brick-and-mortar “shop” to train, correct, etc., that paradigm is what will ensure this particular pathway called Scientology will indeed continue as one of many offering in a sea of spiritual options. No central controlling anything or anyone would really be needed.

    The other thing I want to say is throughout Marty’s contributions a theme that seems to be mentioned often and thus is the bedrock of his embrace of wanting to reach out and just help others is the thought of unconditional love and yes, forgiveness. He mentioned it from the get-go with the reading of “The Shack” and I can tell it underlies everything Marty is doing. Love, be it unconditional or even just an idea in our minds during our past journey as members of the formal church, was a HUGE missing component. John Lennon was right on!

    To give the readers of this blog an interesting perspective on just what this lack of love meant to another former member, you might want to check out this latest entry titled “I quit Scientology for love” in her blog:
    (and please note: at the end the type of Scientology of which she speaks is the current stuff as pushed by DM more than likely…not what Marty and others know to be the pure, unaltered version as being proposed here in this blog)

    PS. Marty can you elaborate on what you mean when you said to Hiker: “I hope what we come up with makes it easy for you to perhaps connect with old friends and maybe even rehab some latent wins.” Just what are you coming up with??? Hmmm….. curious minds wish to know!!

  46. martyrathbun09

    Mickey, I think we are tracking pretty closely. I recommend The Shack to everyone. It was critical to my journey. I think we can do for Scientology what Young did for Christians. Who will act as the Holy Trinity? I guess, us is all that is left. I guess we are going to have to lean on one another, no? I consider that only the application of Reverse Scientology could produce someone like the woman whose blog you referenced who felt she was only discovering love outside Scientology after twenty years within. The entire subject is built upon the foundation of ARC. The answer to your PS is real simple. Probably so simple some will be disappointed. But, I don’t think they will be if they try it. I gotta devote tonight, Sunday and Monday to the Ethics matter. It will explain a lot to folks, particularly those who have been subject to years of denigration by Miscavige. Then we’ll talk simple mechanics around mid week.

  47. Thank you, RJ. I am a proud Scientologist as you are. If others don’t want to be Scientologists or rather want to call themselves ex-Scientologists, okay with me but I don’t want to post on a moderated message board of ex-Scientologists as I am Scientologist for life. I also don’t want to be on a message board that insults and classifies us as “clams”. And finally, WWP is extremely immature and hostile, and I wonder why BFG posts among those masked youngsters who have no first hand experience with Scientology and don’t understand it or us. I also believe that the moderators of all those boards would ban us if we would keep posting that we do not want to be Ex-Scientologists, Some
    non-OSA Scientologists were banned by these boards. We do not want to give up the tech or our religion and LRH is still our hero and after all what was done and said, we are really glad that he developed SCN.

  48. Holy $±¥£ Marty! This is exciting! May the force be with you man!

  49. I think the game BFG is playing is covered in HCOPL 11 May 1971 Issue III PR Series 7 the section on Protest PR where Ron says (begin fair use quote)

    Outright protest PR, based on facts, is a legitimate method of attempting to right wrongs.

    It has to be kept overt. I has to be true.

    Protest PR can include demonstrations, hard news stories and any PR mechanism.

    Minorities have learned that only protest PR can get attention from politicians or lofty institutions or negligent or arrogant bosses.

    Where protest PR is felt to be a necessity, *neglect* (emphasis in original) has already occurred on the issue.

    (end fair use)

    Anyway we may not agree with the company he keeps but I think BFG has been very effective in the area of Protest PR.

    The only problem with any protest movement is that they are usually infiltrated by agent provocateurs as well, see the Church Committee report on COINTELPRO particularly the final report:

    So one has to be aware of that as well, but I think on the average BFG has done a good job of keeping the rabble focused and roused on the key issues.

    Of course you are going to always have the obnoxious few who are anti-Scientology and their Guy Fawkes mask could as easily be a bed sheet and who display pyromanic tendencies to crosses.

    Then of course there is OSA who is trying to exacerbate the scene as well and get them labeled as a bunch of “terrorists”.

    So there you have a mix of guileless youth mixed with possible Government Agencies and OSA. A combination that is about as safe as nitroglycerin!

    Despite this I think BFG has done a good job of exposing Miscavige’s abuses.

  50. Let’s say your take over works. I call it a take over because this is what is happening.
    How are you going to differentiate between the “real” tech and DM’s added tech?

  51. Bolivar,

    The RPF should be BANNED forever as it is a inhumane treatment of a human being. How does ARC fit in with punishment?

    How does forbidding people to talk to other people fit in with ethics and with communication, the universal solvent?

    How does degrading a being to the point he has to call somebody else “Sir” fit in with “making the able more able”?

    How does the treatment of the RPF’RPF fit in with what we are doing here?

    How does paying somebody a quarter of an already meager staff allowance, while he does heavy labour, fit in with exchange?

    Bolivar, I believe you are a great person. I like very much your posts, but please lets not joke about this.

    I agree with Marty when he says that DM has a lot of responsibilities for what happened to scn, but, guys, please lets not forget that if we want to get somewhere, some practice of scientology as stated by LRH should be reconsidered at the least, otherwise we are going to fail again.

    ALL, and I repeat, ALL the inhumane and/or degrading handlings of other beings should be banished. All that LRH has written that goes against ARC should be discarded.

    Bolivar, matter of fact from my viewpoint, is that you did not need the RPF. You probably needed somebody to really CARE for you and HELP you.


    Paolo (Ruggeri)


    Truth, Jim Logan, Bolivar,

    In your posts I see you refer to KSW and to the technology. For instance, Jim, you say:

    “I’m a Safeguarding Technology/KSW kind of feller”.

    I humbly believe this issue of KSW should be addressed early on.

    Practising KSW means that ALL that LRH wrote is 100% correct and should be enforced?

    I believe the above should not be the case and that if a new independent group has to start, a new charter like the US declaration of independece should be written by someone stating the principles that are at the basis of this group. This charter should include how to handle HCOPL’s and HCOB’s written by LRH that are no longer applicable or that go against the ARC triangle or the basic principles like exchange, truth, as-isness, SOS, ethics, etc.

    I bring up this important point because if we were to enforce KSW, this should mean:

    a) That we have again the RPF.
    b) That every thursday morning we run around like crazy to “get the stats up” cutting across all production lines and establishment (what a crazy waste of time).
    b) That all LRH advices are in full force and believe me, Jim, having read many of them, I will fight to death rather than having a world where those advices would be the standing orders.
    c) Where whoever leave the Sea Org is a “degraded being” (see hco pl Sea Org Resignation, but I am sure you know it already).
    d) Et Cetera.

    We have to address the issue of KSW to get rid of all the bad tech, of all the bad policy, of all the policy that goes against sane 4.0 principles. And we have to address this crucial point:

    “Even though LRH was undoubtedly a talented man, is ALL that he wrote 100% correct?”.

    If that is THE paradigm we use, I am afraid this is not going to work.

    Best Paolo

  53. JANE Said:-
    “Agree, RJ, they call themselves “Ex-Scientologists”. It says it all. It’s not a forum for Scientologists. Some of the most active posters on ESMB never were in Scientology. They have no first hand experiences. Pro LRH Tech Community is the forum for Scientologists.”

    If we are scientologists we wish to enable others to get the benefits. The org board even has 3 divs for that purpose. So we have to
    get out into society. ESMB is the best place on the net to do this. Try OCMB if you don’t believe me.

    In fact Marty’s OP sort of described what goes on there whether for scientologists or no longer scientologists.

    It dosn’t matter that there are a few who are completely antagonistic to the subject, although most are merely antagonistic to COS. Many others read.

    Wherever you go on the net where scientology
    is raised it is generally abhored. Some however
    find some attraction to the ideas. You won’t reach those by preaching to the converted on
    private forums.

    For 8 years I’ve been promoting tech outside COS, on the most hostile forums there are and get 30-40 new contacts per month. Marty’s initiative, whatever else it may be doing is I’m sure adding to that.

  54. Paolo,
    I understand your points. The RPF as a punishment is invalid. Any pure punishment is invalid. However, I did the RPF, even though I didn’t ‘qualify’ not having any of the points that cover when the RPF is used.

    What I did, in cahoots with my twin, was consider it ‘sentenced to 5 hours a day study and auditing’. I also took the opportunity to get competent at a bunch of different hats. I did the RPF’s RPF when I told a senior in the RPF to f%$# off when they went arbitrary. During that stint I made a fine furniture cabinet and honed my work with a table saw and finishing.

    In fact, I did so well there, my twin and I were graduated from the RPF’s RPF. Nobody seemed to notice.

    I wholeheartedly agree that the despotic and capricious RPF assignment be annulled. That the RPF as punishment be cancelled. But, a program as a last ditch for an SO member who is really a ‘preclear’ and not up to being a fully contritbuting Sea Org member, done with the humane intention and action of enabling him to find something he can do to a consistent product and be a contributin member of a society, maybe for the first time in his life or existence, and with the intention of help, well, what is wrong with that?

    My view is along the lines of what’s being revealed in this blog, the Tampa Bay Trib articles and so on, reverse Scientology, in whatever guise, be it the RPF or IAS regging or whatever it is, is the bane. Not compassionate reaches to willing beings.

    By the way, on the RPF, I audited another to life changing results. I was the co-audit sup for some time and jumped in and handle numerous pc’s to results. I wouldn’t trade that for anything. And that’s with a bs RPF assignment in the first place.

  55. Paolo,
    I should have said we were graduated from the RPF completely while still in the RPF’s RPF. How’s that for intention! Slipped right on thru.

  56. Paolo,
    I messed up the commenting. Below is a clarification on the RPF’s RPF graduation. In fact we graduated the whole thing from the RPF’s RPF. See below.

  57. Dear Bloggers,

    It appears Marty is off handling a “very serious ethics situation” for a few days. Knowing him a little as I am proud to say I do, and knowing what he has already confronted I would say this handling is NOT the order of magnitude of writing a KR on some dude for smoking a jamaican woodbine or something – no, this is big and this is real. I think its about time we all nailed our colours to the mast and take what responsibility we can in the real world to support him. How about we postpone the unending chatter about the future of scientology and all that stuff for later. There is a church that has gone off the rails run by a tyrant who needs to be brought to justice. Real people are being severely damaged right now as we sit in front of our laptops. The madness of DM could even end in unimaginable tragedy – Marty has alluded to this several times and as he is putting his own neck on the line AGAIN, the least we can do is back him up. Please spend a few moments considering what you can do to actively and effectively help, and lets report a few “dones” for him when he is back on the lines mid-week. I am starting tomorrow morning by posting my doubt formula on the notice boards of my local org, writing KRs on any and all public I know who are blindly supporting the off-policy Ideal Orgs pgm and IAS and reporting myself to Ethics to explain to the E/O exactly why I am doing it – now. Thank you.

  58. Paolo, your two posts here leave me with little to disagree with. In my post I had mentioned that serious reorganization would be needed. I think we are in accord on that. Scn as an organization is burning, twisting , grinding and often exploding to an end which does not achieve its stated goals. I hope people with a vested interest in seeing the subject continue to exist can shake off some of the “think” that was imbedded into us as staff to allow and embrace an easier, gentler path come into play. As a spiritual path and movement, can this change possibly result in anything worse than what the current situation contains? I think not.

  59. Lets Go,

    I love your plan. We need more people like you to step up to the plate.

    Keep us posted on how it goes.

  60. Jim,

    Thank you for your answer. I don’t argue that people endowed with a lot of theta may get “case gains” even from the most difficult experiences (The RPF for instance). I have been on staff in LA. The push was crazy, the stuff was full of HE&R, I feel I have been mishandled in a zillion ways but, guess what: even if I suffered, at the end I learned something (and, you may not believe it, I also had some fun). But was that REALLY necessary?

    What I am talking here is about the philosophy of a group (what in HCO PL The structure of Organization What is Policy, LRH describes as good policy or bad policy).

    The moment you start to think that something like the RPF is needed in a group, you open the door to a sadistic and arbitrary handling of people. And I explain you why:

    – Lets imagine I am a staff member. I do overt products. Therefore I should be sent to the RPF per the applicable FO’s.

    – But if I ended up doing overt products while on post, if you follow it through, I am also an overt product of the qual division, the hco division and of my senior who didn’t really train me and groove me in. A strict application of the FO should have them sent to the RPF too. And if THEY are committing overt products, also their seniors weren’t that good…

    What do we get if we continue this twisted line of reasoning? We get to the creation of something like “The Hole”.

    – I believe instead that a senior should be responsabile for the behaviour of his juniors. If they mess up it is the senior who shoulders the responsibility. Please read on Red Volume I, an Essay on Authoritarism by LRH.

    – And what about the defects of the structure that may create poor performance of the staff? In most of the strong organizations in the world there is a Quality Control Policy. If something goes astray it is not the customer, it is not the employees, but it is the organization and its execs (and its leader) who should correct themselves and should correct the system as well.

    – It may seem a paradox but by saying the above I am trying to “make scientology work”. HCO PL The Structure of Organization What is Policy calls for routinely getting rid of bad policy and for discovering and autorizing new good policy. If you ruthlessly apply KSW#1 this will never be done and you’ll end up with just that:

    An organization that keeps perpetuating its outpoints and it never evolves. An organization that it’s stuck in 1965 or 1986 (the day LRH passed).

    Is that really the operation of theta? I am afraid that is not going to work.

    A last word about the RPF: our old friends who are currently on the RPF are the modern slaves of Scientology. I urge every public who is on lines somewhere in an AO to go and visit those people, bring them comfort, food and money or to just talk to them with ARC and to hell if this is a violation of the rules or may endanger your ot eligibility check.

    You got into scientology because you were a caring individual, willing to help. You were somebody who believed people were good. How can you sit on the AO couch waiting for session while you know that somebody is being suppressed right where you are? How OT is that?


  61. Paolo,
    KSW specifically refers to the technology of application of the principles contained in the Axioms, Factors, Logics, Pre Logics and the fundamentals of the subject. That is colloquially referred to as ‘the tech’. HCO PL’s are covered in a reference 11 April 72, and are differentiated from ‘the tech’ as they are to do with the third dynamic and its ‘tech’.

    It is an utter false datum that ‘everything LRH said is 100% correct’. In fact, I can hear him LHAO right this moment. I’m doing the same.

    IF it was true, then we’d all be lying on couches counting backwards from ten, repeating Action Phrases and snapping fingers.

    By the mid sixties, Standard Tech was arrived at. That is a body of materials for the delivery of Scientology auditing. It is correct. THAT is what KSW is all about. Not ‘fair game’, not ‘how to wash a car’, not the RPF, not Job Endangerment Chits and any of various other aspects. Reason, purpose and the basics trump all HCO PLs, and in that LRH was 100% correct.

    I’m afraid you’ve been subject to reverse Scientology along the line and I can understand your reticence to going through that again. It isn’t KSW that’s at fault, in fact, it’s violation of KSW.

  62. Lets Go,
    Welcome aboard. I’ve posted my mail address in an earlier thread. I’m easily contacted as I’ve made no attempts at cutting my lines while on the internet. Let me know how your ethics cycle goes will you?

    Thanks for your post here. Thanks for putting on the boots in the sky.


  63. Hiker,
    It is a fact, covered by observation and theoretically discussed in the early 50s materials on groups in the Research and Discovery Volumes and Tech Vols, that a group organism is pretty hard to kill off. Especially one that has such theta goals as the one we’re in.

    We are seeing a raise in responsibility level by the individuals that make up the group as witnessed on this blog and other sites. The ‘change’ that will occur in the CofS is to change it back to and more closely approach from there, the Ideal Scene. I’m not worried about the survival urges of Scientologists. They are the beings that make up the group, so I’m not worried about the survival of the group.

    On the other hand, the group ‘bank’, well, its days are numbered. We’re busy clearing that bank every day we run out the group engrams that we’ve been through. That’s what is happening here, there and all over the place.

  64. Paolo,
    I found a short LRH issue that addresses what I’m trying to communicate.

    HCO PL 29 October 1959, issue II “Service” “The watchword is SERVICE.
    “I don’t care how many rules you break if they’re broken to give unselfish service to one another and the public. We live for service not for rules… “…We are essentially breakers of “now-I’m-supposed-to’s.” Don’t fall into our own new rituals so hard that we are no longer brave and effective.” – LRH

    The technology of application described in KSW is what service is all about. KSW is all about service with that technology. That is Standard Tech. The rest falls under the above.

  65. martyrathbun09

    Paolo and Jim, thanks for this exchange. I have a pc who never heard of Scientology till I introduced him recently. After a couple of grades, I was interested in how he would interpret KSW, thinking from my own experience in the REVERSE MILL that he might say “please, we don’t need no thought control.” But I was interested, because I am delivering with no heavy reggging, Ethics used to exact compliance, PTS tech used to exact more money, etc, etc, ad infinitum. Instead, he read the issue and I asked what it meant to him. He said, “if you have a technique that has proven workable, apply it, don’t be fixing something that ain’t broke.” “That’s it?”, I asked, “You aren’t freaked about losing your eternity if you even think of deviating?” He said, “hell no, it says if it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it.” I think it all goes back to our intent in applying what has been left behind. Hell, in 98 I was depicted on the cover of KSW News engaging in a three on one gang bang sec check! Felt very freaky doing it, but the church interpretation of on Source, had become “whatever DM says”, and DM of course conceived, composed and directed the shot. I think we have been conditioned to look at Source in a very skewed fashion. I think you both are right.

  66. Allen Stanfield

    Let’s Go Wrote:

    “I am starting tomorrow morning by posting my doubt formula on the notice boards of my local org, writing KRs on any and all public I know who are blindly supporting the off-policy Ideal Orgs pgm and IAS and reporting myself to Ethics to explain to the E/O exactly why I am doing it – now. ”

    I admire your enthusiasm, but I have to say something here. The KR system in Scientology is being used as a dissident-detection system. And the PTS/SP tech is used as a system for quarantining dissidents and keeping them from “infecting” the rest of the group.

    I think you would be more effective if you went to each Scientologist you know – as rapidly as possible – and personally told them why you are doing what you are doing, before putting any kind of doubt announcement on an Org wall.

    Once you announce to the org what your intentions are, you will be rapidly quarantined. The other Scientologists will be told not to listen to you, as you are now a member of “Annonymous” – or some other dead agent technique. The org will threaten other Scientologist’s Bridge and families, and the other Church members will most definitely NOT get your message.

    Better to go overtly and directly to the source – other Scientologists – rather than inviting the Church to stop you before you have even begun.

    Just a bit of advice from someone who has been on the business end of the Church of Scientology for a while now.

    Otherwise – I am totally behind what you are trying to do.


  67. Paolo,
    You’ve given another excellent reference in What is Policy.

    Please see my responses above too. The point you make on the RPF assignment and the reductio ad absurdem is valid. There are also points to be considered from the VIII course, where just prior to a fall on his head in ethics, a person’s folder is to be checked for out-tech.

    I guess what we can agree on is that all of those things that we protest or ridicule or growl about are all, one or another of the outpoints. (DS 5).

    The outpoints in the administration of the RPF are lots to protest. Do those outpoints trace to the original purpose and program? Do they trace to evil purposes dramatized by reactive minds?

    Determining which is important. Then one can do something about the actual source of the difficulty and that’s what we as Scientologists are all about really. Knowing how to know has the Data Series as part of our tools.

    We both agree, the suppressive use of the RPF is just that.

  68. It doesn’t have to be a church. There is no official organization needed, at least to begin with, and maybe never. Consider it a philosophy, not a religion, and a huge negative connotation disappears immediately. It can just be Free Scientologists or Free Scientology, since the aim is achieve what LRH meant when he said, “The work was free. Keep it so.” All the materials are available to anyone. It’s what each individual does with them that counts. And right now, the official CofS isn’t doing very well with what they’ve got. More and more Scientologists are coming to realize that is up to them personally to make a better Scientology. This thing is going to take off very, very soon. And all are welcome!

  69. It may be that a lot of these guys had no other choice than to label themselves “ex-Scientologists.” With the actions now ongoing some percentage of these people are going to opt back in and start calling themselves free Scientologists, you watch.

  70. Agreed. And people should pick up a copy of Shirky’s book. That is the future of the this little free Scientology movement that is just now sprouting.

  71. This Jim Logan guy must have duplicated at least one of LRH’s 2 Rules for Happy Living: be willing to experience anything. Great post, Hymie!

  72. Jim. Well taken points. Keep in mind that we are in a race between dianetics and the atom bomb if i might paraphrase LRH from DMSMH. We took two giant steps forward from 1950-1980 and two giant steps backwards since then. The public view of us is very low. The orgs are pretty but slow. An organizational change is needed not just in managment personell, but in many areas. Caring for staff, staff pay, price, family values(for real),etc. I think if that can happen, there is a chance for the wind to once again fill the sails and carry hope. Enemy PR must be met with truly demonstrable change and DA’d. Not just renaming something like GO becomming OSA. But thats the institutional church of which I am referring. Actually, independent communities or groups have a clearer path, though the burden of the bad Public perception hangs on them as well. I will add that since LRH came up with the “tech”, its been copied and squirrelled and dissemminated through many groups over the last 60 years and that has had a positive effect in society as well. Its inspired many groups as well. The positive effect of these groups has probably exceeded the institutional C of S, or closely matched it.
    In any event, any change , in any quarter, which helps the world become a better place is a change worth taking.

  73. Hi Allen,
    I get your point. You are to be validated for all you have done to forward the cause. I see that. I also got that you don’t consider yourself a Scientologist anymore. Wouldn’t it be nice to get a session and not have to pay or pay very little and have some nice key-outs? Not have to put up with the bullshit but just get some wins? You don’t want that anymore?

  74. Well said Hiker. I think that is what is being worked on here. A safe space to use what parts of LRH tech are valuable to you. Good hearing your viewpoints.

  75. Nice post. I didn’t get your point on the pulling of withholds though.

  76. Hi Paolo,
    I understand your concern and I like what Jim Logan wrote. To me, a simple answer is if the leader of a group is a social personality he will be in COMM and in ARC with his group members. If weird or entheta practices are occurring he or she will stamp them out. The missing factor has been no reason or logic and ARC in applying Scientology because of an SP running the show and lots of PTS people dramatizing his valence. This will end when the SP is vanquished and a social personality replaces him or better yet some structure with LOTS of social personalities doing it.

  77. Allen Stanfield

    In my experience, “key-outs” are not necessarily connected to “case gain”.

    If they were, we would not have the situation in the Church that we have today, would we?

    “Key-outs” are very addictive, though.

    No thanks.

  78. Hi Lets Go,
    I admire your courage and am looking forward to see what happens. I agree with Allen on what he said in response to your post. But I really like your spirit. My wife and I are getting in comm with lots of locals and are flying under the radar for now. But after we have done all we can “under the radar” we will go out in a blaze of glory!! With both guns blaring..

  79. Interesting quote from KSW 1 : “It’s the bank that says the group is all and the individual is nothing. It’s the bank that says we must fail.” LRH
    Have a nice day.

  80. Allan,
    To me you don’t seem to make sense. You seem to want to handle the Church but don’t seem to want the tech. What is the end result that you are looking for? You seen argumentative.

  81. Allen Stanfield

    Alex wrote:

    “To me you don’t seem to make sense. You seem to want to handle the Church but don’t seem to want the tech. What is the end result that you are looking for?”

    The sames thing I always have: Freed Beings – A Church of Scientology that runs on the Creed of the Church of Scientology.

    If you hang it on the wall, then it better be true.

    “You seen argumentative.”



  82. Wow! I’ve been out of town for several days and didn’t have access to a computer. You guys are blowing me away. This blog has been hopping. Lots of new comers, lots of very interesting posts. I have a hard time finding the time to catch up on all the posts. I haven’t quite caught up yet but I have to post this. Please forgive me if this has been brought up before.

    I’m very impressed with Marty & Geir’s blogs, & I realize that it must be all part of a well thought out strategy which I understand we can’t be told all the details yet. I wanted to share a bit of my viewpoint in the hopes that it can contribute to the motion. My husband (Alex) & I are still in good standing & we are not quite ready to publicly come out yet. But we’ve been working on educating several of our friends & getting them to educate others in their turn. We’ve also sent reports uplines. As usual we heard nothing back. I don’t know of a reference which says they should respond so we were not really expecting a response. I just realized that writing to ED Int or COB would force a response back. I realize neither of them would probably read the letter but per policy someone would have to respond especially if it’s a truly concerned letter from a Scientologist in good standing! What if 100s or 1000s of us would write our concerns to these 2 terminals & see what responses we get.

    Ultimately I would prefer not having to separate myself from the church. As one of my friends told me “I want to take it back”. I think Marty has a series of ethics gradients he intends to apply if the abuses don’t stop & policies are not applied standardly. I thought of one ethics gradient that maybe could be squeezed in somewhere. A public demonstration outside an International Event or at FLAG, PAC Base or INT Base of 100s maybe 1000s of Scientologists, no mask w/total TRO in. Peaceful, calm, ARCful with signs identifying us Like “Concerned OTV, 20 yrs in”, “Concerned CLXII, 27 yrs in”, “Concerned Div 6, 1 month in”… w/banners stating things like “We want transparency”, “We want to look not listen. Show us the Stats”, “Where is Mark Yager, Shelley Miscavige, Heber Jentz,…” No antagonistic signs like take “David Miscavige off post” but rather signs that would indicate/communicate to other Scientologists that haven’t started looking seriously at the outpoints yet. Having the media show up, interviewing some of us stating “we are concerned w/the rumors that our Church is committing Human Rights violations”, “we want to take back our Church”, “either clear conclusively the accusations or reform upper management” or whatever the leaders of our movement decide is appropriate. The main idea is to have a totally uptone & theta demonstration showing a large volume of Scientologists (EX-SO/Staff, declared “SP’s”, Public in good standing or not, working all together) taking a stand that the abuses and violation of policies of all sorts have to stop. I truly believe that the presence of Theta can de-enturbulate entheta and I think this could be an effective blow to the enemies. What do you guys think?

  83. Dear Alex and Allen,
    You are both right. I found a way of contacting LOTS of folk in my area with impingement without blowing cover, and I have to tell you … it’s freakin’ good fun! E mail Thoughtful as to how to do it. After that is done I also will also be going out in a blaze of glory!

  84. I think this is a very cool idea. It would require a lot of organizing and work as it would need good numbers to be effective, but I for one would be happy to take part. It seems there will be a significant Anon demo outside St Hill for the IAS event on 16th Oct according to WWP, but they have a slightly different agenda.

  85. A mighty “Wow!!” back at ya D!!! What an incredible idea. What you are proposing here is exactly what the big “Tea Party” peaceful demo was intended to do back in Wash. DC a few weeks ago; question the leadership and direction things are going.

    In fact, ever notice the parallels occurring in the organization called the CofS and the organization called the Fed Govt? Long time secrets and lies finally, finally coming to the surface and being exposed. Hmm….. It is a truism that eventually, the truth will win out, prevail…and the darkened souls who perpetuate the lies wither and die.

  86. Pingback: Whoa…it’s like I’m looking at a mirror « Irresistible (Dis)Grace

  87. Pingback: Miscavige’s Obsession with the Rathbuns | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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