Since the the days of the Guardian’s Office (sixties) it has been Standard Operating Procedure for the Guardian’s Office and its successor the Office of Special Affairs to use Ethics files and Pre-Clear folders to attack current and former members of the church of Scientology. It is very difficult to prove since the church will not produce those files so that someone may demonstrate where the church obtained the information they attacked an individual with. Even if it requires sufferring the most severe financial sanctions, the church will not produce the files.
One way the church has gotten away with this institionalized invasion of privacy and privilege violation for decades is by walking a tricky little, black cat tight rope walk on the issue of Ethics files. They have been able to successfully argue that Ethics files do not constitute Pre-Clear files and thus aren’t protected by the privilege when called out on using confessional material against people. They go so far as to transfer material from auditing files to ethics files in order to cover their tracks.
Well, David Miscavige’s latest Golden Boy, the Church of Scientology International’s International spokesperson, may have just done the world a tremendous favor. While under oath this summer in the Headley cases he made a big mistake by speaking the truth in an unguarded moment. Please read this carefully:
Q: Does the church of Scientology have files that it considers confidential?
A: We have priest-penitent privilege files.
Q: What would fall within the range of those files.
Mr. Deixler (C of S attorney): Calls for a legal conclusion, I guess. But you can give your understanding.
A: Things of a priest-penitent privilege nature.
Q: Would that be an auditing file?
A: Yes.
Q: Would it be an ethics file?
A: Sure.
Never before has an official church spokesperson been pinned down under oath uttering this truth so clearly.
Thank you Marc and Claire. Your courageous efforts were not in vain – irrespective of the outcome on appeal.
Thank you Tommy. I sense you did this subliminally for all the folks you have seen getting betrayed and slaughtered. I am sure you are paying dearly for it. But, get out soon and you start with a clean slate after this one.
Think about it. How many of you have had your Ethics file used against you publicly?
How many of you can prove it?
I know of several.
UPDATE: A reader sent me a three-page Scientology Policy Directive that makes the cheese more binding:
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
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Looks like we have the makings of a pretty massive class-action lawsuit.
Alternately, Tommy boy will blow so as to avoid getting thrown under the bus by the Vampire and his lawyers.
I never thought an ethics file was privileged in terms of a priest-penitent relationship. In fact, they would flagrantly use it to arrest their own if crimes were committed. Just because Tommy Davis said so doesn’t mean it is so. I think he just has a misunderstanding. Please correct me if I am wrong or elucidate the fine points here.
Youch, Tommy. How on earth does one gloss over a trial transcript? How do you spin with PR, what is a sworn statement, in court and that has penalties of perjury, false swearing, and such attached? How do you keep that quiet when these things can be cited in other trials? How does DM deny, what he’s affirmed, in court?
None of the above. You can’t. That corner he’s painting himself into is getting smaller and smaller daily. Almost not enough room for the rope.
This issue, the violation of the confidences of Scientologists, is key to the invalidation of Scientology by David Miscavige. It is a disgusting practice cancelled specifically in 1968 by LRH, these ‘lists of withholds’. The GO did it and that ‘opened the door’ to nullifying the efficacy of the release of so much pent up evil in the world, followed up by DM’s rampant, wanton perversion of the use of a ‘Sec Check’ to harass and interfere with progress up the Bridge.
This aspect of Black Dianetics/Reverse Scientology, the corrupted practice of ‘I’m not auditing you’ ‘Security’ checks, to introvert others into non-existent overts and withholds, and then turn around and use them against that person, is without question one of THE most suppressive practices he engages in. To boot, he squirrelled the definition of an Instant Read AND FN so you can’t even release the false bullshit that you do dream up to satisfy the NO READ and impossible Floating Needle.
This all adds up to the intentional restimulation of beings and the intentional by-passing of charge.
This is completely a campaign of restim and refusal to allow destim/release of case.
As evil and destructive as anything he does is this perversion and use of willing or co-erced confessional data, in either or any folder.
I have not personally, but know one public who was married to a staff member whose session and ethics info was used to stop him from trying to get custody of their kids. I don’t even think he got joint custody. I was appalled back then but went about my business and didn’t stand up for him. I called him earlier this year and apologized after 10+ years, for not standing up for him back then. I acknowledge how wrong it was to have his session info used against him.
His kids suffered neglect and other misfortunes thanks to having no parent there. IMO they are still suffering. 😦
tommy has the wherewithal to blow, he has a trust fund. doesn’t need to live off of $50.00 a week. He just blows and goes and buys a house, car, etc. Not that big of a deal for him. Nor Jessica his current wife.
You can be a witness for the church then. Much of it comes down to intent of the parties. If you felt your disclosures about yourself to ethics were not privileged then you are not entited the protection of the privilege. Davis speaks sooth in this deposition in my view. I never agreed to have published what I disclosed about myself to Ethics. Never thought they had the right to, always thought it was done in confidence for the sole purpose of my betterment. Whether you agree with me or not, between me and Davis’s sworn testimony I am entitled to the protection of the privilege, legally. My sense is most folks are in the same boat as me.
I don’t quite understand this. I was always under the illusion that ethics folders, while not priest-penitent, were at least considered “sacred”. If it’s true that OSA has been arguing legally that ethics folders have no confidentiality connected to them, then THEY NEED TO SAY SO loudly and publicly, so that every Scientologist, staff or public, is quite clear that the contents of their ethics folders may, and probably will, be used to smear them at some point in the future. Who hasn’t, at one time or another, had to sit in an ethics office writing up O/Ws, all the incidents of sexual indiscretions, moments of petty theft or whatever? These all end up in ones ethics files. I should know; I was a DofP and a security chief at various times while on staff. Life histories, containing every sexual encounter one’s ever had go in there (or copies of such). And so on.
I guess Tommy was saying the way it SHOULD be “I sense you did this subliminally for all the folks you have seen getting betrayed and slaughtered” as Marty says. Can you imagine another Church, or any organisation for that matter, using such information against its ex-staff or public? Disgusting.
“Run Tommy, Run!”
Totally, absolutely, 100 %, without the slightest doubt are ethics folder to be dealt with inalienable confidentiality!!! Any other view, no matter who (even LRH!) would take it, is Dark-Blackest of Pitch-Black Dianetics and diametrically opposed to any betterment intention. Period.
Fidelio
Yeah, there is no better moment… Fidelio
Post has been updated to include the full text of Scientology Policy Directive 118. A reader sent it to me just now. Dios mio! I helped Ray draft the damn directive.
Since when does it require rules when it comes to sharing confidential information with a counselor, mediator, ethics officer etc? Other churches have priests, pastors, youth ministers, chaplains and NONE of them go blabbing to the courts, the press or the other parishioners about the foibles of those who come to them for HELP.
The current church of scientology is no church. It’s a cesspool of gossip, with malicious intent constantly stirred up to keep those still blindly in their grip in line.
Blackmailers usually end up in prison. In this case, because it’s emotional blackmail, there are no cut and dried rules. Except human decency which ALWAYS prevails – given enough space and time.
Count on it.
WH
During my 12 years at Catholic school, I never ever once worried about what I told my priest in Confession. It is a well known fact, Catholic priests would rather go to jail than reveal their parishioners sins, no matter how heinous! Shame on the C of $’s upper management for letting this happen. Shame on the cowards on staff who stand by and watch it happen! Evidently “cover your ass” is the SO motto these days! Have you no honor?
ML,
Songbird
Dox!
Thank you, Marty and the reader who sent in the Scientology Policy Directive.
Just Me
Perfect Fidelio
Co$ publics think it is about betterment.
Guardian Office and OSA think it is about control.
I think this policy directive is of such that any staff/so member would read into it that such files are confidential priest-penitent privileged. To me the intent of the directive is to use religious grounds to force the issue into the realm of law and maintain possession of the files. It isn’t IMO out of concern for the individual.
Content from my sessions was used and discussed in the 70’s. I “excused it” and carried on. In the early 80’s, at Flag, this was repeated. I was even cc’d on the telex with my session content in it. And, I might still have that little gem around here somewhere…
The SPD is the PROOF vis-a-vis Ethics folders. At this point there is a way to take an electric can opener to the can o’worms. A well crafted libel suit. This would force either a defense by the Church or a large settlement.
If defended, the Church will be put on the stand to prove the statements and WHERE the info came from. Coupled with Two Tones statement and the SPD (as long as data came from the Ethics or PC folders) this would be enough to hang them.
This was my understanding as well, add to that Marty’s reply to metaqual. “I never agreed to have published what I disclosed about myself to Ethics. Never thought they had the right to, always thought it was done in confidence for the sole purpose of my betterment.”
What good is it to unburden oneself from past indiscretions if the freedom from is only temporary? That’s just an invitation to hold one’s case gain for hostage. That alone invalidates the workability of Scientology. And yes, I have seen this used on others. I never would have agreed to this and it was shortly after I became aware that this was being done that I did leave.
Jim, that reference you mentioned that cancelled this practice, was it the Fair Game reference?
Marty, was this testimony actually in a court hearing or a deposition?
The whole point of the privilege is to provide people with the assurance that they can safely speak to their ministers/priest/auditors with complete candor and never worry about the info being revealed in a legal proceeding. It should not matter what label they put on the file. I couldn’t believe what the cos did to you and the others in their response to the Truth Rundown when they tried to discredit you with info they dredged out from your files. That completely floored me!!
CL
Interesting data. I was offlines at this time and missed this issue. But, and I may be mistaken when we were preparing for Ideal Org status we had a project to do replace all PC, Ethics and CF folders with a new standardized folder we had to special order. I don’t recall those words being on the new PC and Ethics folders…or perhaps I not-is it because we did it all after regular post time. Does any one else recall?
TS likely has no such misunderstanding. The odds are very very good that he is very familiar with the SPD posted in the blog.
So, regardless of what you personally think about your own Ethics files, the church itself by it’s own policies considers them to be privileged information.
Alan
Legal arguments aside, which in themselves are fascinating, it’s interesting how the term ‘privilege’ is being misapplied. It just means that some professions, based on their positions of trust, are exempt from giving evidence in court. For instance, in the Lisa McPherson case, and others, the court has to order for privilege to be waived and order the pc folders to be produced. So, the church is actively saying that privilege does exist based on confidentiality.
Can’t have it both ways though and say that it only applies when it is convenient. It’s called lack of parity.
Let’s see if I’ve got this right. If someone outside the Church wants to see someone’s Ethics file, they can’t because it’s covered by the same priest-penitent confidentiality as the auditing folders. But the Church is able to broadcast this information far and wide because they were “not auditing you”?
Sounds like a double standard to me. And I’m not a lawyer but it looks like grounds for a lawsuit if derogatory information from your Ethics file is made public.
Now that I’ve read all the comments, I see the SPD was added after the initial blog entry. So metaqual probably commented before that was added. That makes a lot of sense now.
Maryt I totally agree. In adddition, O/Ws etc. are to be routed to the PC folder so that the C/S ist informed what is happening with the PC. There are a lot of other PC particles with personal contents that should be routed directly to the PC folder like medical reports etc.
Unfortunately Execs in the church are not respecting that it is a personal matter and that it belongs to the sole line PC – Auditor – C/S. It is okay for an exec to write a note to Qual about a staff member so that it can be routed to the folder – but it is still Qual that decides to do with it as Qual take no orders. It is not okay when an Exec gets into his junior’s PC od ethics folder to get “informed” about him. What would he think when his junior would do that with his folders? Why should the Exec have this right? It impedes betterment of the PC as the sessions aren’t safe anymore and you can’t freely talk if you have in the back of your mind that your senior will read it.
Feli
Epic 3 page “dox”
Going for the “killshot”, Heey Tommy D, give it home and go home to mommy 😉
Former Church members may be (quite justifiably) upset and even surprised by the realization that confidential, personal information may be used against them by their own Church, but it’s something the general public has for years already widely believed to be true about Scientology–and one of the primary reasons why many people have no interest in learning the first thing about the tech.
For reals, if you stopped 10 people on the street and asked them why two of the most prominent, A-list male actors today remain in the Church of Scientology, 9 of the 10 would unhesitatingly tell you that it’s because both of them are closeted homosexuals…and the second they left the Church every details of their sex lives would be made public.
And once a member of the general public knows (or even believes) that a Church will do that to their own members, they don’t really want (or need) to know anything else about the Church, right?
When the phoenix of Independent Scientology finally arises from the ashes of the current tragic joke of $cientology, this is perhaps the #1 area you courageous ladies and gentlemen will have to concentrate on if you desire to grow your new church and share your tech with others.
Viz, people will somehow need to be 100% convinced that the Independent Church of Scientology will never, ever, ever share (or threaten to share) their personal secrets before they will even be open to listening to your message.
Hugs,
John
The Mob operates more or less the same–get the goods on the person’s perversion(s) or even set him up to document it.
Thereafter they have their unwilling compliance or else.
But at least the Mob has the honesty to not dress in a minister’s garb or call themselves a church.
I think his real chance is to do what Mike did – not just blow but to blow AND speak out. I’m not getting soft in my head but in my heart when I say that as he’s under the same hammering from close up that others have been under before and it ain’t funny there from what I read. So, Tommy, get out and start a fresh page in your life.
If anything, this article will quite possibly cause DM to reconsider future public exposure of parishioner ethics files.
Then again….he’s insane and hates everybody on the planet, so…..
Marty I totally agree with you 100%.
Also according to the SOED all Ethics and PC/Pre OT were labeled “Priest Penitent Privileged File”.
I know because I was part the project that labeled these files at PAC which even included those files previously labeled as “Confessional Formulary”.
The GO would occasionally ask me as a “Techie” to “cull” a PC’s folder for “dirt” and I always refused because it was a direct violation of the ‘Auditors Code’ clause 22.
This was also the reason why the Ol’man abolished sec checks as part of the Scientology Reform Codes.
Yet despite this there were still a few in the GO who insisted on using PC/Pre OT folders to dig up dirt on apostates even though technically it was a violation of policy.
Anyway when the HCOPL ‘Sec Checks Abolished’ was canceled by a policy of questionable provenance and what many of us still consider apocrypha it opened the flood gates to many of the abuses now occurring.
However even so:
Secrets divulged in an HCO Confessional was limited to eligibility as in Form 10A for OT Levels or Staff as in 7A and in internal investigations such as Comm Evs, B of Is , Courts of Ethics and Boards of Review and were never considered for use in broad public dissemination to discredit a critic or anything to that effect which was probably the reason for the ED.
In fact as an auditor who has audited eligibilities and participated in the above for the purpose of securing the OT Levels or to prevent infiltration of Orgs and also to “get ethics in” I view this action as an ultimate betrayal of Scientology and its religious tenets!
It is just plain extortion and black mail!
It is an activity that belongs to seedy Intelligence Agencies and Secret Police.
NOT AN ORGANIZATION THAT CLAIMS TO BE A RELIGION!!!!
that definition is also in the FLAG pilot dictionay used at AOSH ANZO and also in 2006 an order came down from uplines to stamp each and every ethics folder as priest privileged
Very relieveing post Marty, thanks. This certainly clarifies strategy and puts forward a stable battleline.
To fool around with peoples good intentions and decency anywhere, as history shows us invites retribution/revenge, it’s only a matter of time. Never ceases to amaze me the stupidity that develops within the ranks of 3rd Dyns, even when they are hauled infront of a firing squad, they scream innocence. What does it take to wake the masses up?
Go Tommy!
They definitely use ethics folder information, but also FABRICATE and ALTER information to discredit those speaking out.
For example, in response to exposing the fact that I witnessed David Miscavige commit assault & battery on at least a dozen occasions, their response was to claim that I’m a serial sexual deviant who broke up marriages with wanton adulteress affairs. Huh?? Not only is it untrue, it is UTTERLY non-sequitur and an attempt to re-direct attention AWAY from Miscavige. (For the record, I had sexual intercourse with 3 people in my 25-year Sea Org “career” and none were married to other people when we met and were married).
So apparently because of my “devious” sex life, I couldn’t possibly have been coherent enough to be certain that I witnessed DAVID MISCAVIGE repeatedly beat my comrades?? Right…
Fortunately, most people can see right through the crap, so whistle-blowers should not be concerned. Their pathetic smear campaigns only serve as further proof that this organization can NOT be trusted.
Deposition
Good for you Marty!!!
This whole thing may be the proverbial camel’s nose in Miscavige’s elitist tent.
Amy, you noted: Fortunately, most people can see right through the crap, so whistle-blowers should not be concerned. Their pathetic smear campaigns only serve as further proof that this organization can NOT be trusted.
And I note: In no small part due to you taking such an over-the-top brutal assault. The response to the original Truth Revealed expressed more outrage about what they did to you for speaking out than even what we were originally speaking out about. As a result when 15 more people stood up for Strength In Numbers, the church held their fire. You done a lot of good for a lot folks by standing and delivering!
Hey, Lise! Howzit woman?
This disclosing of confidential priest penitent info has permeated throughout the whole CofS and filtered all the way down to the Missions, a contagion of aberration. I.E., a highly trained Auditor/Mission Holder disclosed to me my selectee’s confidential OW gotten off in session in 2008. The intention behind this was so it could help me in my FSMing!
This is a very needed post and topic.
This abuse of priest-penitent privilege is the very crux of hypocrisy and fraud from which the Corporate Scientology deviates from the heart Scientology, the real technology, and by action is not a Church. The abuse is evidenced and documented in legal statements and smear campaigns, so much so that this very abuse, in essence attempted blackmail is misrecognized by the public at large as being Scientology!
Tommy Davis, in the court deposition, parrots the party line, purports that sure the confidentiality is inviolate. It is supposed to be. It is represented to parishioners as being. But in reality, by practice of the Corporations’s illegal and idiotic Operation Creep Outs and Freak Outs and labels publicly put on members who have disagreements or speak out against abuse, the Management does not regard its parishioner’s confidences as sacred.
After a sec check, (as opposed to a withhold gotten off in an auditing session) some overts may be actionable within the practice of Scientology but even then, only for betterment of the individual and certainly not for entertainment, blackmail, or slander by a clandestine management that delegates major funding to these ends! Confession and soulsearching for personal betterment is an immense trust.
An auditor accepts it as a holy trust when listening. So does an Ethics terminal. It’s a different matter entirely than abuse of good people’s earnest confessions toward their public intimidation, blackmail, ruin, harassment or smear campaigns anytime there is a disagreement.
It seems the Corporation of Scientology is more in the business of documenting people’s bank and cases to be used against non-obedients. Eh? Even when the protests and reports and departures are due to valid violations of the law and real Scientology. BAD CONTROL.
Besides being cheating and a coward’s way of resolving disagreements, bottom line, this routinely practiced violation is about as unholy as it gets.
Amy,
You are a true hero. You’re a truth-teller who took responsibility, who stood up and told of crimes committed against you and others and said, “No more!”
In this fight against the cult of Corporate Scientology, the heroes are those who DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Just Me
And P.S. the smear campaigns executed by the $cio Corporation Management play out like exaggerated, tacky, twisted and embellished bad soap opera concoctions that weave in a person’s supposed buttons (culled from confessional folders of course) exaggerated transgressions and lies. The chilling aspect to this tragedy is the lack of self-awareness by the Black Operatives that the public smells them a mile off and sees through their bad writing and obvious sneakiness.
Don’t I sound like veritas? 🙂 Ah, what’s in a name. It’s the topic that matters.
That’s why the “Church” is dead.
Karen B,
This was part of the Reform Codes of 68 and included Fair Game, yes. The policy on Security Checks is 26 Oct 68, Security Checks Abolished. It’s in the original OEC Vol One, but not in the 91 version I find.
Sign me up!!
Keep in mind that even in Non- HCO style Confessionals, and even straight auditing Sessions, and Auditor is suppossed to write-up to HCO a “Non-Actionable ” KR. I forget when this reference was written, I am guessing the early 70’s. That explain why they old GO and later OSA would use this for “dirt”.
I can’t remember the last time I received a Sec Check or Confessional, that didn’t start out with ” I am not Auditing you, This is the Session’!
Scientology is an applied religious philosophy. It is religious because it addresses spiritual matters with individual people. The entire relationship of a church to its parishioners, whether it be auditing, training, ethics, finance, management or whatever, should be sacrosanct and confidential so as not to betray that relationship.
The betrayal of that relationship by any staff or management of the church is simply an outright treasonous betrayal of its past and present parishioners. It is recognized by the general public as such, causes tremendous out-PR for Scientology as a whole and adds to the list of reasons why the public stays away in droves.
My opinion, based on experience and observation:
LIST OF REASONS WHY THE GENERAL PUBLIC STAYS AWAY IN DROVES FROM THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY:
1. The Church of Scientology lies and is mistrusted
2. The Tech has been altered and degraded by David Miscavige
3. Prices and perpetual demand for donations are astronomically obscene
4. Families, friendships and business relationships may be destroyed
5. Afraid of getting brain-washed
6. Too many people with negative experiences in the church
7. They think the Sea Org is bizarre
8. Elitist, status-oriented culture
9. DM beats his staff
10. No overall visible results in society
Little differentiation here:
In case you think of ethics being able to use O/W write ups, confessionals, I’m-not-auditing-you type of sec checks etc. and therefore outside of PPP (priest/penitent privilege).
These are church INTERNAL differences (PC/Auditor being even more strict than Ethics – but still within the church). NOTHING a member of a church confessions to a priest/counselor etc. goes outside the church.
These are not Church vs. World regulations but church vs. member. Policy only applies within the church, not to the world (I’m not talking about the principles, I’m talking about policy as a directive or regulation).
It would appear that Tommy is a defacto Angel of Death for Miscavage. Perhaps it is best he stays in for a bit longer. He is now starting to get some good products for the independent field.
Centurion
Don’t Tread,
Using these files on parishoners is one thing. Using them on persons expelled another. The PL on SP acts, the recent version issued in 2001 and dated 7 March 65 Issue I (it was dated 23 Dec 65 for decades, but was indeed issued on 7 March originally and originally mis-dated as 1 March) says that a declared SP, expelled from the church “relinquish their rights as Scientologists by their very actions and may not receive the benefits of the Codes of the Church.”
I’m sure this is at least one of the justifications for this disgusting practice.
I’m not a lawyer BUT, I would think legally speaking the above SPD lays it out and that the law WOULD recognize the sanctity of these files, whether in or out of the church as a member.
The above policy, the SP Acts issue says clearly, as its last paragraph that no illegal acts can be carried out against a person declared SP, under penalty of law, within and without the church.
to amy, you go girl, lol, you are an underdog all the way 🙂
i don’t care about the out 2-d shit, it’s what you do now that counts. ethics, tech & admin 🙂 btw, i loved your book 🙂 it helped crack my case.
thank you for having the courage to step up to the plate, despite all the crap they were gonna throw at you. kudos to you. i hope to see you in court 🙂
Right on Marty and I totally agree
So true, WH. Genuine priests, pastors, counselors, and therapists, along with doctors and lawyers understand without needing to be told that they may never divulge what their clients disclose to them in the course of their professional duties.. In the Catholic Church as well as other communions, a priest must be willing to accept imprisonment, or even death rather than to violate the seal of the confessional. I believe there was a movie by Hitchcock concerning this, so it’s not foreign to popular understanding.The church of Scientology does not understand the first thing about religion, and appears to have latched on to some useful sounding phrases in order to sound more like the real thing. This would be a joke except that real people, good people are being hurt. Please keep chipping away, Marty and friends. Pax
Well, well the web they weave for themselves will en-snare them.
Problem is it is written down, the turnoever of staff can be huge over the years, the cadet org did the filing and so hundreds of people could access it over the years – including CF, PC, Ethics and telexes in the old days. In my forty years that has happened, I had to tell my kids stuff because it was out there via some other kids who had seen it. hey, we are all ‘volunteers’ and the org does nothing – only the person, and if he ends up in the dumpster area he is being punished for it – nest pas????
Ethics files can be used as described here. Looking at „bad“ things one did and using that against that person. But that files have another usage which might be more valuable. As Ethics Officer I read through at least 5000 pages of reports, not O/W write ups. By doing that you can get a rather complete picture about what is going on. This knowledge is worth more than the individual overt write ups. If you know who connects to whom and is friend or enemy of whom combined with individual deeds of the persons involved you have complete control. If you do a good job at it you know before it happens. Now we have good computers and I could imagine that all reports are stored into them and programmes run on those reports to get a picture of what is going on. Then you pick up a terminal and do some attack action and find out more due to incoming information.
Even psychiatrists generally respect the “confidentiality” of what their patients tell them. Although this can be a grey area in some instances where law enforcement issues are involved.
Yes, and reporters have gone to jail rather than revealing their “source”.
It seems the Co$ management falls “below zero” on any “honor scale” I can think of.
Great post, thank you for clearing that up!!
It is the ‘culture think’ that if the “auditor” says “I’m not auditing you” then it is open content for the world to see. It’s not policy but it is what most Scientologists that I know think and believe.
Come on Tommy, Blow like you did a few years ago, huh?!
Stop being so miserable and unethical. DM has ruined the Church!
Paul
Vic, I agree. It was to protect the church, not the parishoner. However, the policy on its face is a good one. Too bad its not followed. More hypocrisy, more lies. Its a sick twisted place. Start over.
Marty, this is enormous. No former official of your rank has ever publicly stated that the practice of the GO and OSA is to cull Ethics and Pre-Clear folders to attack current and former members of the church of Scientology. Thank you for going on record. With everything else you have done, this also silences critics who say that you do not do enough. What you just posted is absolutely staggering.
Marty, I have a follow up question: When a Scientologist is handed the cans and the auditor says, “I am not auditing you.” Is this a legal CYA (Cover Your Ass) for the Church? Does the “I am not auditing you” material go into a person’s Ethics file and not their Pre-Clear file? Given that GO and OSA consider the contents of Ethics files to be freely available for public disclosure, when an auditor says “I am not auditing you” that should be a giant red flag for anyone to whom it is said.
“I am not auditing you” is apparently CoS’ version of giving someone their Miranda Rights: “Whatever you say can and will be used against you!”
I too hope we see Tommy Davis cross over from the darkness to the light.
/////
Amy, the way the church attacked you was utterly disgraceful.
How can it possibly be that they think this is an acceptable way to behave?
You don’t have to explain yourself. Their attack against you makes them look like monsters.
Yeah, sorta like Miranda, except that you have no right to remain silent.
The “Not auditing you” RF has nothing to do with Legally covering anyone’s ass.
It only means that any withholds given will be turned over to ethics and are actionable.
As you read the Priest penitent privilege applies to ethics files as well as tech files.
George,
Yeah. I know that. I get how that works. But it never occurred to me when I got involved in Scientology and for the 20 years I stayed involved with the church that to someone I was an ethics particle in some internally focused witch-hunt intelligence operation. And after I left it got worse and worse.
Looking back now, I imagine what the church might have become if all that energy and all those assets had been focused on helping people become more able instead of looking for plots.
But it didn’t. And here we are. We validate paranoia. We get paranoia.
Just Me
Amy,
I agree totally. Nothing but Love and respect for your personal integrity.
It takes a lot of courage to be brave. Maybe a little anger too. May we all be so ‘sudden’. Love
Amy,
Your testimony in the ‘Truth Rundown’ had the most credibility for me. After watching you (I am a very perceptive observer of peoples’ prevarications) talk about the abuse you had witnessed, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind you were speaking the truth. It was only micro-milliseconds from there for me to conclude with absolute certainty, DM is an SP.
So let tell you something young lady, (in case you haven’t been adequately acknowledged) you are held in the highest regard here in the Vertley camp. You are a true heroine.
The filth thrown your way by DM and his SO minions means nothing. Nothing at all.
Your courage is what matters.
JM
It isn’t just “paranoia” when they are actually out to get you.
For instance in one sec check we uncovered a team of operatives who were stealing Confidential Materials from the AO.
In others we found:
Some who were an informants for the FBI.
Several who were turning lower level public onto OT Materials and feeding them clear cogs.
Others who were getting processed while under the influence of drugs LSD in particular who were sent in by our “friendly” psychiatrist buddies.
Some who never bothered to mention that they worked for the CIA, NSA, MI6, etc.
A few who had connections to organized crime.
Various reporters who were doing a story of some kind who never bothered to mention this fact.
One or two that planted drugs on org premises.
This is just a short list since it doesn’t cover federal fugitives, muderers, embezzelers, drug dealers, arms dealers, terrorists etc.
You know just your typical public interested in self betterment…..
Sheeesh.
Well, here goes for what it’s worth.
I am on staff. Been a Scientologist since the 60’s. Seen and heard most everything. Some I still shake my head at. I know some of you that post here and am glad you are doing well. I wondered where y’all went to.
I’m not going to get into what I think about all of this at this time. Had to change my screen name here twice due to “questions” about me recently.
Anyway, I can tell you that what actually got me coming to this blog was the Freedom magazine article that came out about you two, Marty and Mike.
No offense, but I didn’t even know who you guys were and since I don’t watch TV or use the internet for anything other than email, I was unaware of the vidoes. All of you know what I am talking about, so I’ll get to my point.
I started to read it and became enraged that they were talking about your “confessions” and where I come from and the church that I attend, this means this “data” came from auditing.
I am not the only person in the field with that opinion. They said you confessed. It’s in writing. I am looking at it right now. I do not have any misunderstoods about it.
So what did I do about it? I blasted our local DSA. I mean BLASTED, verbally, big time. Held it up, asked how we could do that to anyone? How can any church take the confessions of a person AND PUBLISH IT? AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
I told him for the first time ever, for a moment, I was ashamed. So we are being attacked? Well welcome to frickin planet earth. We best make sure our hands are clean, maybe start making auditors again (crazy thought, I know) and Comm Ev everyone who violated any PC’s session. I’d be more than happy to chair each and every one of them.
My two cents for you Marty that regardless of everything that has happened and will happen, there are many of us out here that care and in our own ways, we are fighting. I’ve started a comm cycle with a MAA at Flag on each and every one of my concerns and let me tell you this – first item of discussion is that article. And before anyone asks, no, I will not discuss my comm cycle but I just wanted all of you to know that as long as you are a Scientologist and love LRH, I will fight for you. In my own way and on my playing field, but I will fight until the day I die, for me, for you and for LRH.
Wish me luck.
There are a couple of things about the priest/penitent privilege that people should be aware of. In the first place, the privilege generally belongs to the penitent, not the priest. That privilege can be waived. If subpoenaed, the church cannot hide behind the privilege especially if the penitent is willing to waive it. Also, the privilege does not exist if the communication is made in the presence of other people. I suspect this is how they get around the ethics disclosures as the sins of the penitent are made public as the usual part of the amends project.
THE OFFICIAL DMANDA WARNING:
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.
EVERYTHING YOU SAY IN AUDITING OR ETHICS CAN, SHOULD AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A REG CYCLE OR TO DESTROY YOUR REPUTATION OR A COURT OF LAW IF YOU GO AGAINST ME.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO OBJECT TO WHAT I SAY OR DO.
IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR SEC CHECKS, YOU WILL BE BANNED UNTIL YOU CAN.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO KEEP THE OLD L. RON HUBBARD BOOKS OR MATERIALS. YOU WILL READ MY REVISED EDITIONS ONLY.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SLEEP OR EAT UNLESS I SAY SO.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LEAVE ON YOUR OWN DETERMINISM.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO YOUR OWN CHILDREN, FAMILY MEMBERS, FRIENDS OR BUSINESS ASSOCIATES.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO YOUR OWN MONEY.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SEE THE TRUTH FOR YOURSELF.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO YOUR OWN THOUGHTS.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO USE SCIENTOLOGY UNLESS YOU AGREE WITH ME.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THESE RIGHTS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU?
Just me, I agree with you. Maybe a misinterpretation of KSW created the paranoia. And the validation. In an attempt to protect Scientology
any means to that end is permissible. Its easy to justify when after all you are protecting your group, the tech and your friends and family.
Greatest good. Us and ‘them’.
Regardless of whether the information is used from the PC folder or the ethics file, the dissemination of a persons ‘secrets’ is a destructive action that it creates a dangerous environment, making it more difficult for a PC to to unburden himself without fear of recourse, condemnation or punishment, thereby blocking his chances of spiritual gain.
” 1. We have no interest in the secrets and crimes of people and no use for them”
L. Ron Hubbard
(HCOPL 26 Aug 1968 SECURITY CHECKS ABOLISHED)
Kudos to all involved for getting Tommy to admit that the squirrel church is once again completely violating LRH tech and policy.
Just another example of reverse (black) Scientology.
Eli, thank you. You made my day.
“The policy on Security Checks is 26 Oct 68, Security Checks Abolished. It’s in the original OEC Vol One, but not in the 91 version I find.”
Hmmmmmmm. I wonder where it went? 😉
The slogan outside an auditing room in DM’s Cult should be:::
“ANYTHING YOU SAY IN SESSION, CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU PUBLICLY ON THE INTERNET AND IN A COURT OF LAW IF YOU LEAVE THE CHURCH OR WE DECLARE YOU”.
Marty, high fives on posting this dark and despicable conduct which is standard operating basis within the “Church”.
I have observed how the “Church” wants positioning against the Catholic Church,~~DM asking him to be recognized as equivalent of the POPE. Norman Starkey in his epileptic-fit type communication on CNN talks babbles about Marty being “defrocked.” a purely Catholic term.
HOWEVER,
Within the Catholic Church ~Priest/Penitent confessionals are truly between 2 people.
Unlike the current “Church” where your confessional data is FAIR GAME and used to broadcast on the Internet when you exit. I just experienced it.
I posted an excerpt of this previously on Marty’s blog, but it bears a repeat ~~
There is a “HUB” where multiple Execs of a Church have ability to tune in to these auditing sessions.
These folders travel up and down the spectrum. OSA staff routinely examine them, all the malicious DM hate sites are lies with some foundation taken from private pc folders.
In any normal Church
Here’s who has complete access to the folders~~
D of P
Tech Sec
D of P for interviews
Ethics Officer
Qual Sec
Qual Consultant
Cramming Officer
Qual Examiner
FESer
Senior HCO in CLO
Senior HCO in ILO
CMO rep local
CMO in CLO
CMO at INT
OSA Rep
OSA INT
OSA INT Invest
OSA INT CS
RTC Rep (local)
RTC REP inn ILO
RTC office at INT Base
Office of COB
Int Base ~other terminals.
(Senior CS INT office is gone but whatever
replaced it)
The above are not one single person. Each time that post terminal hits the skids, blows, gets RPF’d and so on over the years, a new person replacing the above post has similar access. There can be as many as 3 different D of Ps in 18 months.
Priest /Penitent ? Confidential folder ? Don’t be silly. It can be read up and down the length of the organization.
Good luck Eli ♥
“It is not okay when an Exec gets into his junior’s PC od ethics folder to get “informed” about him.”
This happened all the time at my org. My senior had a lower case level than I but would get another exec to look into my folders (PC and Ethics) for her. I also observed her going directly into other juniors folders where there was no higher case level involved.
It got to the point where I felt that I couldn’t get as-isness from my org so I shut up and when I reached a point of enough, I left.
Jim, so an SP, DM, just all this by himself?
What is his purpose? What’s his intention? What’s his beef with Scientology? Who is he really? What kind of a track should warranty such a suppressive behavior?
You see all this makes me think and think over some things.
LOL – what org were you in!?!?!
Seriously, I don’t give a flying F if all you said was true (which I doubt) – it still doesn’t justify violating session confidentiality. Rather than destroying the sancity of auditing – find your criminals some other way.
There is nothing wrong with protecting oneself and ones group.
There is everything wrong, as far as I can tell, when an entire organization (GO/OSA) is created to effectively spy on its parishioners. What seems to happen is that a mentality is created whereby people don’t trust others. It is an aggressive approach.
Now, IF everyone who was entrusted to protect the group was really a high toned/enlightened soul – I guess it might work.
Sadly, the people I knew in the GO were by and large (HUGE generality here so don’t go nuts on me) themselves THE most self-important, arrogant and know besty group around. THEY were the privileged ones and never let anyone forget it. They had their own secret volumes (and hand shake, no doubt).
In other words — it just doesn’t work. Look where the GO and OSA has brought us.
The lowest common denominator will RULE in a group of humans. People will default to the lazy and lackluster side of BLAME THEM.
It takes a whole different approach to bring sanity to the world.
So far — no one has done it whole sale but that’s no reason to give up. And facing aggression with aggression has just never worked.
Time to move up a little bit higher.
WH
Culling and unauthorized viewing of pc folders for OSA purposes does happen. I’ve been on both sides of this.
Yeah, RJ. I get all that. But I’m talking about something above all that — the kind of thing Eli’s talking about below. See his post, it’s important. I’m talking about the focus. The freakin’ focus. The point of it all. The bigger view. Seems like all that gradually became less important than the “Watch out, they’re coming to get us” activities.
Corporate Scientology is in the state it is because the gates closed more and more hours every day. The walls got higher. The allegiance required became more stringent. There is no contact with “the outside.” This isn’t a new thought I’m expressing here. Marty and others have expressed it many times, many ways.
We validate paranoia, we get paranoia. We validate getting more able, and we all get more able. I’m not sure why this is hitting me so hard tonight, but it is. It’s a big deal.
Just Me
Thank you, Sarge.
JM
That is scary truth you are writing.
Eli;
I do wish you luck. Very brave to stick your head up above all those other Scientologist’s not willing to LOOK. I suspect you are not alone for at the end of the day it is LRH’s tech that matters. I would think by now there are a handfull of folks like you in each “Ideal Org” LOOKING. Eli I don’t have to tell you the result of LOOKING because you are communicating in your own way the TRUTH of what you see.
When you get found out, remember you have many Independent friends that will help you for there are many like you doing what they can to protect LRH’s technology.
Thanks Eli, for all you do.
Eli, you kick ass! Thank you very much for what you’re doing, it needs to be done. Best of luck with it indeed, but never think that what your doing isn’t having an effect on the people you comm with about it. You are part of the motion that will build to the perfect storm that will bring change to the CoS, change that is badly needed.
XOSA
If you are not a CS and not trained in folder study ~~ you would not be in the know. This is compartmentalized on a strictly NEED-TO-KNOW basis.
If you worked at OSA you know very well how many at OSA do not know what others are doing, particularly INVEST/INTELL actions.
I was ordered to cull pc folders within OSA to use against the pc.
I am guilty of some actions on this on one particular pc.
I never did it again even when Ordered with Force.
I came to my senses even while on post in OSA.
I was pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed by Warren Mcshane within RTC to cull among other things ~~
What the pc feared the most.
What the pc was most embarrassed about
Biggest overts/transgressions committed.
This was ordered purely for OSA/RTC payback and nefarious actions.
Most of OSA did not know my orders from McShane or who the target pc was.
Marty,
You’re welcome. Fact of the matter is, you could be the most insane person EVER to come down the pike and you still would not have deserved that publication.
It just isn’t right and it isn’t LRH.
My only regert was that I didn’t have a cane to smack him….
Yeah this happened all the time at Flag when I was there in the 80’s. Any exec could look at anyone’s folder and did.
Eli.
Thank you. Tears in my eyes.
Thank you for your courage and your strength.
Marty, we are very rich in very high caliber friends.
I’m guessing that whatever money this guy has at his disposal has been seriously compromised by his visible position. It’s probably been signed over as some sort of insurance policy against him squealing. Doesn’t that make sense?
Exactly!
I had a Scn friend of mine really put on the pressure for me to get auditing. I told him that, and I quote, “If you think I’m going to tell my deepest, darkest secrets to someone to lock away in a file so they can blackmail me with it later, you’re nuts!”
Even Ron De Wolfe (LRH Junior) said that his dad would use PC folders to blackmail people for donations and to keep others in line.
But hey, it’s all for the purpose of protecting the Church so Scientology can ‘clear the planet’, so it’s doing the “greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics”, right?
I wish you luck Eli, and I guess you’ll need more of it than is generally available.
Applaud the bravery.
You know there is a home for you.
Thanks for the ack’s guys.
I try to get people to look. Too high a gradient.
Now just trying to get people to think. Still I/P. LOL
Silly planet, ya know?
Thanks Jack.
Yes, I have many friends all over. Have several back-up plans if this goes south, so not worried. One phone call and I have money and plane tickets.
Just love a good fight!
Oh yeah,
I agree.
Fact is that some of the most arrogant pricks you’d ever care to meet seemed to gravitate to the GO and later OSA (with exception of Mary Sue and Mike of course 🙂 ) and HCO.
From a cat seat’s view as a Techie. Some of these people brought a whole new level to obnoxiousness!
Sheeeeesh
However there were very nice people involved as well.
I mean the AGF of the Org I was in was a very cool dude.
Though his B1 Sec made Eminence Gris seem gregarious.
But anyway…..
I digress.
So yeah I agree there are those types.
However it’s interesting that the LA and Washington raids had brought about a general humility that I will say wasn’t evident before.
(Hmmmmm.
Which could be one reason why his Satanic Majesty got rid of them.
Again just a working theory.)
However confronting possible evil of someone dedicated to the destruction of Scientology was not a job you’d hand over to a marshmallow.
As a side note: In 1999 Belgian and French police raided the Scientology headquarters in Brussels and various other official and private locations of Scientology organizations and Scientologists (f.e. the homes of OSA members). They had acted on complaints for fraud filed by ex-scientologists.
One aspect that emerged from the findings was that during the 1990s the CoS began to view every active scientologist/parishioner as a potential security threat/trouble source. Therefore and consequently, every pc folder from the orgs was pulled from OSA. Any (for the pc) embarassing or incriminating information that was contained in the folder was then written up and sent to OSA EU in Copenhagen for “safe keeping”. As you might have had guessed, OSA made sure that all the sexual stuff that each PC had originated while in session was sent “up lines”.
Dear Vic,
You remind me of one of those people who just because they have not looked beyond the horizon assume the earth is flat.
Also non of the people that you think are so “delusionary” were never turned over to the authorities or anything like that.
We just refused to allow them on staff or on lines.
There now you can go back to laughing at things that are beyond your experience.
A typical trait of ignorance.
no will, that doesn’t make sense at all. he has a trust fund in his name, c/o his mother, anne archer. but i did notice that when he went to visit jb, the church paid for it. in other words, tommy lied in that deposition too. will if you want more info, you’ll have read, marty’s entire blog and cognite on your own.
And let us not forget ~~
Tom Cruise private confessional data was mocked at the butt of jokes by David Miscavige and his inner circle as previously reported.
Not Even the great Tom Cruise was above salacious enjoyment of deeply personal confessed information within the boundaries of a session.
Eli~
Allow me to chime in on the resounding ‘Welcome! that you are hearing here. I personally admire you. You hold the truth to be first and foremost, a truly admirable trait. I want to thank you for your courage to speak up and for allowing your own observations to be seen, as it is. Only when the repressed can read the truth, and think it through, can they make a learned decision between what is right and what is wrong. On that note; Welcome! To the universe of freedom.
Sincerely,
AB
JM,
I agree.
In fact I remember Ron saying that insanity is any trait that is taken to extreme.
Like for instance caution and vigilance.
In fact much of what is called the “Red Scare” (and I’m sure Valkov will back me up) was started by Communist Agents.
Just like this fear over “SPs” everywhere was started by an SP (who will remain nameless for now) and his SP friends.
My gawd you can almost go Type III considering the possibilities like that group who thinks the problem is Gray Aliens!
To paraphrase what they’re saying at events these days:
“Now THAAAAAT’S paranoia!”
That said:
There are real factors and individuals who would like to see Scientology fail (like the so called “Man Behind Scientology” for example and his elitist fiends….er …I mean friends) that are covered in various GO Dirs, various lectures and even in PLs.
For instance pull out a copy of the PL called “Current Planning” not the altered one in the current OECs but the original in the original set.
I can see if someone had pulled out a copy of List 1 and asked someone that we all dearly love to say “Consider committing overts against Mary Sue or L Ron Hubbard etc.” we wouldn’t be here on the internet discussing things like this and you know who would probably still be on his comm course somewhere instead of running the Org……
Into the ground.
So good to hear that staff are still able to see – even as the walls have gotten higher and higher (and rimmed with inward pointing stakes). Thanks and a big cyber hug to you, Eli!
metaqual,
Did you read the Policy Directive above? It says both auditing and ethics files are to be labeled as confidential.
Clear up any M/U’s and re-read the issue.
Scott
Eli!
You are my kinda Thetan 🙂
A Thetan with integrity!
I wish you all the best and maybe when things get sorted out we can get together have a few beers and a few laughs.
Ml
Robin
An unrefutable list.
On the other hand there is something missing ( and therefore easily overlooked ).
Where are the lots and lots Co$ members that emanate
1. happiness ( don’t they have a “way to happiness” ? )
2. tolerance ( don’t they have a “creed” claiming just that ? )
3. honest communication ( don’t they have a comm. course ? )
4. a disdain for manipulative techniques ( don’t they have a chart of attitudes with “faith” on top ? )
They would be walking dissemination tools themselves.
Thank you Amy. Your “courage under fire” is exemplary. I have no doubts as to the veracity of your witness of David Miscavige’s abuses.
Scott
Eli,
Glad to see you are amongst the Independents even while trying to reform the C of S from within. Godspeed to you.
Scott
The Church is not the one in this country that can say whether legal or illegal acts can be “carried out against a person…”
It is the law of the land. This is kind of like the Church writing into this issue a little reminder to itself, oops, doesn’t mean we can carry out illegal stuff on people. Of course they do. But the very fact of violating what a parishioner has come to believe is confidential handlings, auditing, whatever, for his/her spiritual betterment, is ITSELF illegal. Can be considered a CRIMINAL OFFENSE based on FRAUD. Serious stuff. Good grounds for class action suit, with solid legal basis.
Eli,
If you would like my phone number and email contact, Marty can give it to you. I’m in the Midwest. Jack’s info would be good too, since he is in the Clearwater area near Flag (if you are there). His house would be a quick, safe first stop after Flag (if you’re there). You see, we’re running an underground railroad here for those who want to leave. If you do, we’re here for you. People are here from all over the world. We can get you to where you need to be. Just ask.
Just Me
RJ
You said…
“Anyway when the HCOPL ‘Sec Checks Abolished’ was canceled by a policy of questionable provenance and what many of us still consider apocrypha it opened the flood gates to many of the abuses now occurring.”
I have never seen the “policy of questionable provenance” but when you read the LRH’s policy abolishing Sec Checks he makes it clear what his intentions were and why..
And I quote from that policy which states, in part:…
“1. We have no interest in the secrets and crimes of people and no use for them.”
And..
“6. The existence of lists of crimes in folders often makes it necessary to destroy the folders which may contain other technical data which is constructive and valuable.”
“7. If a person IS a criminal or has overt acts which affect his case, and speaks of them to an auditor of his own volition, the auditor is bound by the Auditor’s Code not to publish, use or reveal them.”
My opinion…
My personal feeling is that recording, in detail any information of a sensitive nature, unless valuable for “technical” considerations, should not be done. If the information is written down or recorded it is virtually impossible to guarantee its safekeeping “forever” no matter what is written on the folder or in “law”. One big difference between the Catholic Confessional is that the priest writes nothing down. Since there are no witnesses, other than the Priest, and no records are kept, the information cannot be “accessed’ or seized by any agent without having the Priest divulge the data and break his vow to never do so. The same should be true for an “Auditor”.
WW
Sure and I’d believe every word that NIBs said, along with the guy who sold you your stupid screen handle.
From the Tampa Bay/St. Pete Times series “The Truth Rundown”,
“The church prepared binders of indexed material that included confessions the defectors wrote during their time in Scientology.
A key tenet of Scientology is that an individual who admits and takes responsibility for his bad thoughts and acts feels unburdened and joyful. Church members write confessions, which go into “ethics files” that are supposed to remain secret. But to rebut the defectors’ allegations about David Miscavige, church officials took the extraordinary step of releasing excerpts from the files.”
Agreed
Eli best of luck to you.
I’m afraid I would have too much of a Ronald Reagan memory to be a reliable witness. It happened so long ago. I remember being required to write ACTIONABLE knowledge reports and while this was mostly for internal ethics, it seemed customary that actual crimes were turned over to the authorities IF they were not given in session. What I recall most is the G.O. at Flag making issues of staff (from time to time)b who had committed crimes and having them write it up and confess to the local authorities in such a manner as to make the Church look beyond reproach. Mostly, they would issue an order saying “so and so indecently exposed himself across the street or pissed on the palm tree” etc. and kick them out.
It clearly appears that the Ray Mithoff SPD is written for the purpose and sole purpose of protecting the Church from the Government confiscating their files.
I think what much of this comes down to is having one’s personal life and data used against them. If we are talking about real crimes, one would be obligated by law to inform the authorities. A lawyer – my lawyer – once told me that when a lawyer has knowledge of a crime….even by his client….his is obligated as an officer of the court to inform the court.
What Jim Logan pointed out with the policy of one “foregoing their rights” or losing them….that sort of fair games the former parishioner. In fact, if you think about some of the stuff you signed in the Church, it gives them permission to make you an enemy….go after you for debt (not legally binding) and enforced confessions, etc.
I agree with all of you that they are full of it. The public generally deplore the practices of the CofS. The only ones who buy it are the current members and those on the cusp.
I only read it now. It was not posted when I made the original comment. That is an “update.” See my reply to Marty above.
The policy I’m referring to is entitled “Confessionals in HCO” and came out in late ’82 a few months before the infamous HCOB “Disconnection and PTS” (the one RVY claims to have written) supposedly ‘canceling’ HCOPLs ‘Sec Checks Abolished and ‘HCO Confessionals’ (forbidding HCOs from using Confessionals and telling them to rely on investigatory tech instead) which was just several years before a whole series of former BTBs and BPLs were issued as HCOBs and PLs “assisted by” etc.
I saw we get a Ninja team of indies inside the CST vaults at Petrolia and steal back the originals.
Just a thought 🙂
The GO ended up dramatizing what it was trying to stop. It became like the J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI. Scientology as a group suffered the same fate even before D.M. WISE became like the IRS, trying to tax Scientologists. Their initial policies were so off the wall they had to be changed.
The G.O. was originally created to protect Scientology from outside enemies or perhaps those who would creep in like plants. Latter day Scientology directly targets former parishioners who were there with good will. They have created their own enemies and this applies to the last days of the G.O. as well.
The DMANDA WARNING that OTDT wrote is terrifying because it is true. The DMANDA WARNING should be published widely so that the public can read what really goes on behind the locked doors of Scientology Orgs, Flag, and The MV Freewinds. This is as raw and brutal as it gets.
If an auditor has you sit down in an auditing room, has you pick up the cans and starts a session it always felt like an ARC break if they say “I AM NOT AUDITING YOU”. I always felt that was wrong in some way.
If they are an auditor or even if it’s for “ethics” they are auditing you. They are acting as a counsellor, priest, confidant, whatever you want to call it. There is a sacred relationship there that is violated by that statement and the use of this data.
All the parts of a session are there. If you carefully described all the details of “Auditing” to someone and then showed them this “Not-Auditing” session they would surely see that it was auditing.
It is auditing.
You can also ask the question what Employer (church of Scientology – Sea Org) would even be allowed to release data from an employees personnel file? And all of the sec checks, auditing, etc.. are required, not a choice if you are in the sea org. I get that they are standing behind the 2nd amendment, but what about employment and labor laws. I can tell you from working at several large corporations they would get sued from every angle if they released information about why people were fired, and anything from their personnel files.
The day is coming – trust me, that something is going to blow this whole organization apart. It might not be because of labor issues, but it is going to be because scientology public and local staff members(class 5 orgs) demand change and see the source of the outpoints. In my area alone, I have already started to see local staff start to distance themselves from the CLO’s and they are doing things their way, pure LRH. Dave you better watch out because the masses are forming and they are coming to remove you off post!
Just Me,
It has actually taken me quite a while to respond to your post because I was speechless. Your generosity, well…is…ummm… see the problem? For once in my life, I can’t find the words except Thank You.
And to everyone else who has responded to kindly and graciously, I would also like to say Thank You.
I wish all of us the best of luck. I won’t go down without a fight!
Tommy and Jessica are not money motivated individuals. I know them personally and can guarantee you that. If Tommy and Jessica have a weak point it may well be losing all the people they love. And lose them they will, neither of them have any real non-scientology terminals.
Even if they were money motivated, (I know they aren’t) any money they have comes from their parents, all heavily invested in Scientology and who would leave their children destitute in a second if the Church said so.
Wow. DM could not have corrupted his way to power without corrupting others along the way. McShane is one of the Others.
OTDT,
I always enjoy your posts. This one is perfect!
Thanks Robin!
Somehow, someway, things will get sorted out.
Food for thought:
1. Double standard alert. This SPD is apparently taken as valid policy in the blog post while other, likely similar, are labeled “of questionable provenance”. This policy is very clearly related to defense against raids and other outside attacks and is not, IMO, descriptive of the nature of these files, internally. Similarly, the statements of TD are subjected to a double standard. Are they lies or are they binding on the Church, or both? It is just something TD said. Ethics files, especially, have very dubious standing relative to this privilege, if you look at the definition of such in statute.
2. Declared SPs have no protection under Scientology policy. There is no point in saying that this SPD was violated in the case of declared SPs. That is the basic, and sensible, part of what is frequently called “Fair Game”. Fair Game is often interpreted by critics to mean that every Scientologist has carte blanche to commit crimes against declared SPs. While there are hints that that may have been promoted a bit, by LRH, in the distant past, that aspect is clearly not permitted (nor desired, IMO). However, someone that has left the group has no real entitlement to the protections of the group afforded to group members. That is only logical. They lose their parking spot, too.
3. While Marty have had a different opinion, for myself, I never had/have any expectation of privacy in the case of Ethics folders or HCO-style sec checks. We already know that all that material will be available in any ethics action; we know that it will show up in our SP declare. So little surprise that it is revealed elsewhere.
That said, I think it is pretty scummy for the Church to get into aspects like someone’s sexual history, not to mention the insane perversion of any validity that Freedom Mag may have ever had. I do not think it unreasonable for the Church to answer charges with Ethics folder material showing that the accuser was, himself, guilty of same or the main perp of same.
You have no right to live, think and breathe unless we give you the OK to “live, think and breathe”. AMEN
to rj,
why didn’t the church take these people and prosecute under the law?
they take everybody else to court or jail etc, why not these people?
and i agree with vic, it still doesn’t justify violating session confidentiality.
Since David Miscavige has a penchant for gossip and cabal, I do believe that ALL of the Cof$ “celebrity” members have had their respective Ethics and Auditing folders perused for his maniacal fantasies. If he did it to TC then you can bet that NO ONE IS SAFE FROM DM!!!!!
Amy,
Please, please, please get a slander case going against whoever authored the lies about you. Not only would this make visible to the public this atrocity but it would open the door to a public airing of the priest pennant privilege abuse of the Black Church of Dmonology. I am sure there are some legal eagles in the indi field and if not that how about the ACLU?
Love
Gandiguy
Hmmm….. visions of TC in bed with a soggy horse’s head….
Amy,
I recently read your book and was taken on a roller-coaster ride on the Tone Scale! I am forever thankful for your courage (and Marty, Mike and soooo many other Independent souls). I am sure you have received many well wishes far and wide (and deservedly so).
I believe that this poem by William Ernest Henley would bring true hearts and minds to pause in remembrance to our “fallen” friends (at the hands of DM’s Insanity Machine):
“Invictus”
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
Love and ARC,
Gary
Right on RJ. There’s a book titled “Mole Hunt” which describes how a “Red Scare” was created inside the CIA which paralyzed and almost destroyed the agency as an effective intelligence gathering operation. It’s the old “divide and conquer”, which Scientologists know as 3rd party.
I’m sure the Soviets also loved Senator Joe McCarthy’s witch hunts he conducted through his HUAC (House UnamericanActivites Committee) which destroyed many careers and damaged many lives.
Why bother to fight an “enemy” when you can get him to fight, weaken, and defeat himself ?
I have always known that HCO Sec Checks, Life Histories, O/W Write-ups, Conditions formulas, were not considered the same nor treated the same as PC Folders. And, I have to admit, as distasteful as it is, I did not consider taking ethics folder info and publicizing it outside the org to be wrong per policy, just ethically. After all, when a goldenrod is published, the goldenrod has in it information from ethics reports and ethics investigations – i.e. the ethics files. But, of course, this presupposes some sanity on the ethics lines.
Even this SPD – Look at it? Why do you think it was written? Was it to reaffirm the sanctity of “Priest/penitent confidentiality” really? No, it was to prevent the government from confiscating PC and Ethics files during raids. In my opinion, the ONLY reason ethics files were included was JUST to prevent their confiscation in raids like the FBI raids in 1977. And of course, the reason for that is to prevent the FBI and official agencies from reading any dirt on the church.
In other words, it was not to protect YOU and ME, but THEIR own asses.
Now, I had one instance of PC folder data used against me in an ethics situation. I mentioned this once before, but not in detail. I was on the BC virtually every weeknight for pretty close to five years. My friend and I did a co-audit on one of the levels. For some reason I was in the ethics office, and I don’t recall exactly why – might have been late to course, but more likely, it was because I skipped graduation on Friday night to go out with friends.
This pissant student on the Ethics and Justice course was assigned to interview me. He looked me in the eye and said “well, you don’t get much TA in session – in fact it is pretty low.” What do you say to that? “Hey! Let me see my PC folders?” No, there is nothing you can say to that. He then said, “what this means is that you seem to be No Case Gain, but there is a little TA, so I would say you are borderline suppressive.”
IT REALLY PISSED ME OFF.
I shot that mothercusser from guns. It was acknowledged by the entire org HCO and Qual to be completely out of line, and he was handled accordingly.
This was in 1982, 1983 timeframe. By the way, what were my twin and I co-auditing? Method One word clearing. This is where you clear up the misunderstood words from your education, and you SPEND ALMOST ALL SESSION OFF THE METER. So, no TA. Cussing idiot.
(By the way, I have taken to using “cussing” because I like the move “Fantastic Mr. Fox,” which is a supposed “kids movie,” and I thought it was a clever way to avoid F bombs!).
Back to this post – this SPD is a smoking gun, whether Tommy admitted it under oath or not, but Tommy admitting it is the nail in the coffin. If I were a lawyer, and I saw that ethics and especially PC folder information was used against my client, or anyone else, I would do the following:
1. Make the claim that since the Church breached their own “priest/penitent” privileges, it MUST NOT EXIST, and so
2. Subpoena Mr. David Miscavige’s and his underlings PC and Ethics files as part of discovery
This is such a dangerous precedent, this publishing of PC and Ethics folder info on people, that, once again, the Church has been put in serious danger by the cussing idiot, Mr. David Miscavige. He will be SCOHB when this is over… If not SCISQ (that would be San Quentin).
Exactly as described in Orwell’s book “1984” – Find their greatest fear and use that to break them into compliance.
As well as keeping other detailed personal information in a dossier which can be used to discredit and control them. It’s exactly like DM’s practice of “declaring” to discredit, then requiring “recanting” through a perverted form of “A through E”. And if there’s not enough in the dossier, well, just make some things up, as they did with Amy and apparently many others too.
I’m glad that you are not working for DMaranda! 🙂
You’re “worth” a lot! Thank you for “Looking” and respecting LRH. 🙂
Gary
First, some good news. Just heard from a very theta couple who have been off our lines for over 5 years. They had been major players in the Co$. They contacted us to let us know they are OUT.
Next, from HCOPL 15 Nov 1970, CONFESSIONALS.
“HCOs may not do Confessionals or “Sec Checks.””
“Too many cases, too many case programs, have been fouled up by non-C/Sed Sec Checking or Confessionals in the past for the practice to continue.”
“Asked to do “Confessionals” or “Sec Checks” Tech and Qual may do them only as part of a C/S program and only as a gradient in the general action of improving the reality of the case.”
“An R/S still means crimes. All the other data is true and should be known but POLYGRAPHS, LIE DETECTORS, METERS ONLY REGISTER AT THE REALITY LEVEL OF THE BEING, and the reality level of a criminal is too bad for reads to occur in the majority of cases. Thus the guilty are falsely freed and the innocent are subjected to annoyance and upset.”
…”Thus neither Tech nor Qual should assist investigations but should work on the case against proper C/Ses to get off the overts and witholds for the case benefit.”
“Overts disclosed in sessions may not be used for justice purposes. Therefore only crimes discovered by routine investigation are actionable.”
I requsted a comm ev back in the late 90’s because I was being attacked for having the audacity to write valid KRs on an out-tech situation. Instead of a comm ev, I got a kangaroo court with vicious personal attacks. Every time I tried to mention the specifics of the KRs in question, the chairman of the “comm ev” would simply attack. Then, specific overts disclosed in previous sessions were thrown in my face by this little 14 year old nazi youth. She could have gotten the data only from my pc folder. She could have had no purpose other than to introvert and suppress me.
Personally, I think $100,000 spent on annoying and upsetting and totally unnecessary sec checks, largely because DM is a paranoid criminal, is sufficient grounds for a lot of SP declares. “We” are the wrong target Davie. “You” should look in the mirror.
The actions of the Co$ in every aspect of this travesty are utterly BLACK DIANETICS and BLACK ETHICS and just plain BLACK.
On the happy side, we completed another new NED auditor this week:)
Hey Jimbo,
I have an HCOB for you to read regarding the activity you assign solely to Miscavige.
HCOB 8 May 1963
The Nature of Formation of the GPM
Pay particular attention to para 8.
Not that I wouldn’t assign Miscavige cause where assignment was due but I object to assigning him more cause than he has.
See also the Tech Dictionary Definition of Blame in particularly def 2.
This whole abuse of Sec Checking started long before Miscavige and wasn’t just limited to the GO.
In fact I remember RTC doing “gang bang” sec checking under Vicki Aznaran and broadly publishing overts found and it being used by the Finance Police under Wendell Reynolds as a popular method of intimidating Franchise Holders.
Let’s not create a false picture of the past.
I’m great thanks mate :)…..enjoyng my version of Total Freedom immensely…and it didn’t cost me $300,000+ All it cost was stamps for posting copies of my resignation letter. I, like Meshell and family am one of the “little ones” and its all of the other little ones left, the lurkers, the “sorry I’m unable to attend the event this weekend as I’m out of town”, the ones that have quietly walked away, the ones that can’t be located by the new post of “Deep Search I/C”,these are the grass roots public that need to take a leaf out of our books and stand up and say NO and say it loudly…its an amazing feeling to strike at the least expected moment by hand delivering a resignation letter to your org, kissing the recipient goodbye and walking out,it kind of feels like a bomb dropping and the shock waves left behind go on in the org for months and perhaps forever while a tyrant stays in command.
So if anyone wants a real adrenalin rush I highly recommend a broadly published resignation letter telling them to stick it. I’m sure Luis Garcia would agree on this one.
Just to quickly add: One of the scariest things when leaving is the use of your folders to discredit you. My hat goes off to Amy and all who really copped it, what a horrible experience. I overcame that fear by just deciding to cross that bridge when I came to it. One year down the track I can honestly say I have had absolutely nothing happen to me. Us “little ones” aren’t very important you see. So I highly doubt that if you are little you will suffer from this but you will suffer the disconnections.
Marty you’re right. But so is metaqual… in a way.
Although that my understanding that Ethics files would fall under Priest/ Parishioner Privileges, I took a quick survey of 10 friends and it seems to be half and half.
The odd point was all the younger Scientologists agreed that Ethics files were not protected by Priest/Parishioner Privileges. It is apparently being “taught” that this is OK “because it’s not their PC folder.”
The other common response was “I don’t know the exact reference, but I know it’s in policy somewhere.”
The weird part…
not one person who thought that it was OK to use Ethics files publicly thought there was anything wrong with this!
Like many things in the Church today, a policy says to do one thing, and the exact opposite is being “taught,” practiced and applied.
This is another break in the trust of the public. Without that trust nobody is going up any bridge! Not all abuse ethics folders. But those that do not and remain silent about the staff that do with find themselves the effect of this very overt. It is absolutely against what LRH wanted. Ethics is there to get the tech in. The tech, auditing, sec checks etc and ethics is all there for the good of the pc. To use for anything else is just flat wrong.
Any data from the activities of an auditor should only be used for the benefit of the preclear. Any other use is violation of LRH basics.
The SPD 118 clearly shows the Ethics files as part of the priest-penitent information not to be disclosed. Further the ethics file with public disseminated or to other staff for other purposes is violating the actually LRH data. Even in the latest printing of the Intro to Scientology Ethics book, The Basics of Ethics, page 6 Justice states:
“When the individual fails to put in his own ethics, the group takes action against him and this is called justice.
I have found that Man cannot be trusted with justice. The truth is, Man cannot really be trusted with “punishment.” With it he does not really seek discipline, he wreaks injustice. He dramatizes his ability to get his own ethics in by trying to get others to get their ethics in. I invite you to examine what laughingly passes for ‘justice’ in our current society.
…
When the tech of Ethics isn’t known, justice becomes an end-all in itself. And that just degenerates into a sadism.”
The making public of priest-penitant information is just a display of this sadism. If you wanted it public simply follow the ethics gradients and publish the facts in a comm ev not just what you want to say. No real honest comm ev is allowed to be done so what we see is a bypass of all ethics gradients and the use of this data for sadism as LRH wrote. In this case the senior management of the “Church” is acting just as a psychotic government.
LRH covered this also.
Ability Issue 72 late april 1958
How We Work on the Third Dynamic
…
The activities of a barbarism one against another are punishment, revilement, contest for first dynamic supremacy with no thought of the rights of others.
The barbarism solves political problems with brutality, crime with punishment and social ills with degradation.
…
These are the brands of barbarism. Hate is deified above love, a deterrent to an action is better than a communication, the delusion is more palatable than the truth.
If we place the government on our chart of human evaluation, we find a craven psychotic. What would you think of the sanity of a man who sits in his house all day every day loading guns for fear of some mythical enemy? What would you think of a person who used violence against the weak, the helpless, women and children? What would you think of someone who solved all his problems with threats of violence? You’d be right. Such a person would be insane. Just add up the characteristics of a government today, apply them as if done by an individual and make up your mind. Governments are insane. It is a big thought and one necessary to digest if you are not going to go around all your life snarling impotently against “government stupidity.” The insane aren’t always stupid but they are certainly insane.
…
To cure a barbarism one must make men socially grow up. And that is done with individuals. One works with individual people, not with groups.
We in Scientology have done a “power of growing up,” me and you both. We are strong in that we have the ability to make other people “grow up.” Our target is the individual if we wish to increase the group level of responsibility.
===
Until all Scientologist’s, as individuals, start to think with and use the correct LRH references some will continue to suppress all from making any progress up the bridge. This especially applies to all current staff members, as only through the organized staff can this alteration of everything that LRH worked for be perverted into the barbarism we see the evidence of. Culling the personal data is equivalent to loading your guns – against the enemies (those that think for themselves and don’t just act as robots) real or mythical. You then threaten the weak/innocent with loss of their future salvation, violence, lawsuits, PI harassment, etc. Sounds just like what he describes in the above references.
Just come into present time and see there is no war other than one invented. We are all individuals stuck on planet earth, surrounded by the same insanities, and as individuals we can better conditions with the true application of the tech.
Sapere Aude
Eli, being in Scientology for 50 years you have every right to do whatever, communicate with whoever and look into whatever you want to find out what is going on.
You have provenly showed your dedication to the subject and your loyalty to LRH by those 50 years!
So, welcome here good luck on your new journey and investigation. Google Theo Sismanides to read my 3 articles since I left in the year 2000, as part of you getting data about “SPs” and how they get declared!
Marty, my previous comment didn’t make it for some reason, I hope this comes through now.
Marty thank you so much
I loved this post and the ED….
People in the Church and out are so confused about the actions and violation of policy that many believe there is a secret line dictated by LRH on why is OK to violate policy… to abuse people and to lie…
The Staff in the Church of $ are loosing touch with the reality of Scientology, many never had it… to them is not a religion or a philosophy to help others anymore. It is a battle field, the very “Witch hunting” LRH described in the Ethic book.
There are no rules and no limit just destroy anyone that opposes or does block the flow in any way…
They just shoot… and the shoot anyone even valuable people of their group….
love
Thank you for bringing one of the MOST important outpoints, Marty.
It really is Black Dianetics/Scientology.
The world is full of individual lies and transgressions, on every flow.
We all lied and did things we ashamed of. Or most of us. Things we rather not to share openly. Oh well. Most of us, also, are very well-intentioned beings. With that in mind, when “the Church” gains your utter trust and you share things so very intimate and it then betrays you when it’s instrumental to its agenda (like when your staff contract is up or you refuse to resign for more services), targeting you in your very vulnerability, I call it for what it is – A TOTAL BETRAYAL. It’s a whole new level of low.
I lived through it and survived it. Not that it wasn’t MOST miserable time of my life. I almost lost my family, I sure lost my old “super-theta Scientologist” self, but through all the turmoil and experience, I am more Me then ever though.
An auditor can pull a pc’s withhold in session these days, brief another auditor about it (in coordination with with HCO, Reges and top Execs), so another skilled auditor will take that pc in for an “Ethics Interview”, manipulate and coax the pc to give off the same withhold, but now it’s “justice” and not confidential anymore. Makes pc much more regable. Or they just blow. Trust me, I have seen it. Also, “I am not auditing you” is a legal statement, seems like. I bet any lawyer who works for “the Church” loves it most.
Although, I am mostly on ESMB these days, I check this blog almost daily.
Why? I find TRUTH here too. Thank you again for that Marty. Thank you Mike. Thank you to all of you folks who are not pretending and just living life, trying to sort things out and simply make things better.
Amy & Marty,
The response (lies) from VE definitely created a need to step up and tell the truth far and wide, continuing on blogs and boards as these were created. The Freedom mag which was done at that time was a major footnuke at great expense.
Hey Barney,
We used to do Confessionals all the time as an AUDITING action back in the late ’70’s and early 80’s.
Some of the biggest releases used to occur after the Power to Forgive step!
Please don’t knock Confessionals when used for case gain.
It’s very powerful tech when properly applied for the benefit of the PC or Pre OT.
Just like any level.
Also consider the fact that FPRD (and I mean the real FPRD that was run to a persistant FN on the E-purp) and L-10 were based on Confessional Tech.
In other words it has its place in the Pantheon of Scientology processing.
The thing that Bypasses Charge is when its being misused, perverted or used unnecessalily.
Especially when it is used to make others guilty (the bigger overt) or for extortion and black mail.
The intention of people doing such is suppress and invalidate the technology.
Elli, you are a TRUE Scientologist. Good luck. When reading this blog, Steve’s or Jeff’s blog – there are MANY who try all sort of things to get them to “please squeeze your eyes a little bit open” … it can be a trying process and some are actually fun – and when they work we’ll post them too (I will, when my IP “process” achieved the desired result) 🙂
Yes, from all over the world, Eli! Pick you continent 🙂
XOSA
RU Kidding!!!!!?????
Where you locked in a closet somewhere while on post.
Or maybe your shades were just a little too dark and your iPod was waaaay too loud.
sheeeesh
Next thing you’ll be telling us.
Is that the tooth fairy came for a visit.
Just Me,
“witch-hunt” would fit. I had OSA quite often on my desk. They telling me that staff or public soandso had connection to squirrel or sp thisone. Those informations they have due to informants in the scene and they do not want to blow the cover of the informants and thus I have to interview the person and have it look like a regular inspection by ethics and then “by accident” find out about this connection.
I did not do that the way I had been expected or told to do but the one before me did. And he “found out” and thus sold together with the reg sec checks or whatever. Usually wound up with a blow or SP declare. I speak here not of a some view but of some hundreds. (about 30% of the field publics)
I do not know the area you had been Scientologist. But that had been my experience back in 82 to 85.
Anyway when the HCOPL ‘Sec Checks Abolished’ was canceled by a policy of questionable provenance and what many of us still consider apocrypha it opened the flood gates to many of the abuses now occurring.
RJ,
can you please give me the exact dates and titles for both thoses references?
Thanks!
Feli
The current “church” of $cientology is nothing more than a money-skimming operation (IAS, Idle Orgs, SuperPower, basic book donos, etc.) combined with an extortion/blackmail enforcement unit (OSA) that uses not guns/weapons, but perhaps a more vile type of threat – a person’s deepest, darkest innermost secrets. I think as a Scientologist one of the things you fear the more is to wake up one morning and find your most embarassing withholds on the front page of a newspaper. Sounds a lot like organized crime to me (too bad the FBI/IRS/law enforcement doesn’t (or won’t) do anything about it). However, I think this is worse than any other abuse that the C of S commits because it not only discourages people from speaking out against them, but it also discourages people from fully coming clean in a confessional, i.e. how do you know that what you’re revealing in an auditing session is actually priest-penitent priviledged? How do you know that it won’t come back to bite you? Besides, I know that some people, such as myself, can actually invent “withholds” that are actually dub-in and/or exaggerated. One can’t fully be “in session” with that thought lingering in the back of one’s mind.
Actionable session KR’s don’t (shouldn’t) actually violate prient-penitent priviledge as they have a very limited distribution, ethics file and pc file, though a few people other than the auditor and C/S may find out about them, such as the MAA and D of P. But they have “a need to know” and are expected to act professionally when dealing with case data, no? However, I think terminals such as the reg and/or one’s senior if on staff, have no business looking at session KRs. I think if the MAA needs to inform someone about something, e.g. the PC stole the reges car, he could always notify the right people. It is quite apparent to me that it takes trustworthy people with a high ethic level to deliver Scientology properly or it just doesn’t work.
One other thing I want to add is that recently (the last two years) the local DSAs have been using PC/Ethics file data to fair game/harrass ex-Scientologists who protest alongside Anonymous. Despicable, but it seems that these OSAbots actually believe that just because these ex-Scns are now “declared SPs” that priest-penitent priviledge doesn’t apply to them. I think they are misapplying what was stated in the “Fair Game” policy, which got cancelled anyways, no? I’m not Catholic, but I seriously doubt that anyone ex-communicated from the Catholic church would have to worry about their secrets becoming exposed (the priests don’t write them down anyways – smart). Just goes to show that the current C of $ is really more of crime syndicate than a real church that helps people.
A real church also helps all people unconditionally, not just those upstats with large bank accounts. I think this comes from the Christian belief that we’re all God’s children and that every individual has an intrinsic worth. Scientology taught me that the able should help the able become more able, and that it must be done for a valuable exchange. We can just ignore the downstats and degraded beings for now. I’ve heard a lot Scientologists say that.
When on auditing lines, when I started to run out of hours and didn’t have more money to buy more hours to finish my current program, I was shown an LRH policy that “Free Service Equals Free Fall”. Scientology doesn’t even offer service on credit, let alone free service. However, LRH also wrote in “What Your Donations Buy” that he thinks (ideally) that services should be free. Do I have an MU or is LRH contradicting himself? Perhaps this is one of those “doublethink” items that Jeff Hawkins talks about on his blog. Oh well, I’m starting to ramble, Jethro signing off…
Karen, four years ago, I got off withholds to an MAA. Not only did these withholds travel the length of California from HCO to HCO, they were alter-ised, which resulted in disconnection from one of the most loved people in my entire life. There are many good auditors and some good ethics terminals in the church, but right now my feeling is that I have no desire or intention to participate any more in that kind of open communication. If I ever decide to get auditing or ethics help again, I will have to feel COMPLETELY safe with a terminal.
WARNING – VOMIT MATERIAL – JIM LET YOUR CAT OUT NOW:
Incidentally if anyone thinks this disgusting practice is limited to adults think again.
Last year my ex husband requested that my daughter’s PC folders be destroyed. The PC folders were at the Mace Kingsley Family Center in Clearwater. Mace Kingsley is a center which supposedly specializes in auditing children.
My daughter was very upset about confessional information in her folder as some of the information had been used by her prior auditor to bullbait her out of session (she was 12 years old at the time of her auditing).
Turns out that Jeff Avrin, the ED of Mace Kingsley had complied to demands from OSA to hand over my daughter’s PC folders to them.
Cathy True – if you are reading this – or anyone else from OSA at Flag. What possible use could you have for the PC folders of a 12 year old?
You forgot about the Dept. 10, 19 & 21 staff who have complete access.
Theo,
The primary action of an SP is to introvert attention (push in anchor points, shrink your space and keep you from looking out – from being, as being is experienced in extending out points, in space).
One ends up in condensing space. First by ‘feeling’, then ‘efforting’ and finally in the low scale ‘think’.
Compare DM to the points listed in various places in the PTS/SP materials. Do a thorough ‘look, see’ and make up your mind based on your own observation.
Mr. Fancy,
So, in effect, what DM has intended has been effective. You’ll keep your ‘deepest, darkest secrets’.
That’s too bad. Me, I LOVED Grade II. DM or no DM. If he wants to trot out my ‘bad’, well, g’head. Having done this Grade, and the others, I’m perfectly capable of reaching him with an appropriate response.
There’s plenty of ethical practitioners around. Do yourself a favor, find one, tell them these secrets. Get them to sign a waiver/contract beforehand if you like (one exists for the CofS, as you can clearly see in the SPD).
Relief is a wonderful thing.
RJ,
If Security Checks were just that, and handled standardly, (the guy refused as staff and put to the HGC) and the spirit and letter of the materials followed (who gives a rat’s arse what beings have done, they’re there to get relief and change – Scn is there to facilitate that) then as the tool they were intended to be they’d serve.
You know that. I know that.
This area is ripe for a real thorough clean up, beginning with laying out the ACTUAL materials, and pointing up the perversions of those data to end up with this bullshit DMology runs.
I for one appreciate the value of this tech in its various applications. Extremely handy to have around. I’m sure that’s why DM abuses it to put it in bad odor and raise the hue and cry against it.
“As you read the Priest penitent privilege applies to ethics files as well as tech files.”
Precisely.
Karen #1,
And you can see the adverse effect on Warren.
RJ — RTC under VA and the Finance Police in Wendell’s time were absolutely under the control of Dear Leader either as Special Project Ops or COB ASI.
Sam,
Too late. Sorry cat.
That description is as much as any could stand. As black and inverted as could be.
Jesus Dave. Outrageous, twisted, disgusting – these are appropriate but maybe even more so – is the image of you in your ‘discharge’ room, holding that copper handle, isolated and alone, writhing in your chair reading the ‘O/Ws’ of a 12 year old.
Those of you in OSA reading this, you are fast on your way to becoming that image. If not there already.
That’s gotta be hell.
CC: The real money in Tommy’s family is his father, not Ann and Terry. His father is not a Scientologist.
Sam — Thanks for this. It is this sort of information that motivates me when I get up in the morning: “What can I do today to help bring an end to this insanity.” Sometimes its easy to just sit back and enjoy the sunshine and let the world be, but I am constantly reminded of the pain that is being inflicted on people in the name of Scientology — and that is as powerful a driving force for me as it was to spend 34 years in the SO because I was driven to try to help others with Scientology. Oh, how the tables have turned. And this sort of thing reminds me why.
Sam,
Reading over LDW’s comment above I did a cursory look through OEC Vol One, the new one and found a policy dated 13 Nov 74, HCO MAY DO CONFESSIONALS, that cancels the 26 Oct 68 issue SECURITY CHECKS ABOLISHED.
I have to do a complete study of this area to find the exact LRH references on this subject. However, the issue from 74 says nothing about the practice of culling withholds and using them in violation of the priest/penitent fact. Indeed, in a later issue 6 March 82R CONFESSIONAL TECH POLICIES an HCOB/PL, it states: “Ethics Officers must be ministers…” which clearly puts them under the provisos for ‘priest/penitent’.
I have not done a full study of this topic, however it is noted that the PL 15 November 70, that Les refers to is NOT cancelled and is still in OEC Vol One.
I have also noted that there were several issues put out in 1982 on this topic. If you recall, that was the same time period that ‘disconnection’ was re-introduced by an issue of dubious provenance. This time period is when DM arose. It is the time period of the ‘New Era’ for the Sea Org – inaugurated at the time with the Mission Holders meetings and summary declares, the wholesale purges at the upper levels of management, and a host of things that today are the source of bitter strife within and without.
Jim,
That’s the same image I got. God, what a pervert. You just know at the dwarf’s tone level there has to be some serious perversion going on. There’s just no escaping that fact.
My guess is you did not brief them as to how the church uses the information publicly in asking your question. If I am wrong, then they must be recruiting lobotomy cases these days.
“It is fascinating that blackmail and punishment are the keynotes of all dark operations. What would happen if these two commodities no longer existed? What would happen if all men were free to speak? Then and only then would you have freedom.” LRH, from HCO PL Honest People Have Rights, Too
Great, thanks Lise.
I’ve read just now in Policy 28 Oct 1976, AUDITING FOLDERS, OMISSIONS IN COMPLETENESS, that to be included in the PC folder are:
“4. ALL SEC CHECKS AND INTEGRITY PROCESS LISTS AND ACTIONS. It doesn’t matter who or what is doing the Sec Check, the resulting action is NOT the property of the department or branch or person doing the Sec Checking. A full worksheet must be made and ALL such actions done MUST be included in the routine pc folder of the person.”
This puts them squarely in the priest/penitent arena. Again, there is nothing in this issue or any other I’ve found, that permits ANY of these reports to be later ‘culled’ so as to reveal that material that is covered by the priest/penitent proviso.
I guess the difference between you and a lot of folks here is that they haven’t given up on doing something about it.
You have no rights unless we give you the “license to survive”. The first step in obtaining this license is the next stop on the routing form, the IAS Registrar.
Good effort counselor.
Theo,
Just imagine, you’ve just destroyed the only Tech man has ever had to go free, you’ve been responsible for the death of many OT VIII’s, you’ve prevented tens of thousands of Scientologists, if not hundreds of thousands, to reach higher states, you’ve sold LRH’s techniques to government bodies, you’ve sold the biggest big lies imaginable, you’ve declared the very best and most intelligent staff, you’ve sold and resold perverted books for hundreds of millions without owning the copy rights, you’ve sold Black Dianetics to the tune of billions while claiming it to be Scientology, you’ve banned the whole executive strata to the Hole, you’ve driven many staff to the brink of insanity, you’ve spread hopelessness and despair throughout the community and then some. Now, would you be just a little freaked out about anyone going Clear or OT and finding out and being able to prove your crimes? How about all those people you’ve illegally declared, maimed, blocked, excommunicated, driven insane, etc, coming together and gang up on you, wouldn’t that be the greatest nightmare you can imagine? If also the Martians and FBI are after you, what would be a better justification and motivator for committing more crimes?
Good terminal for sending Garcia’s letter. He might get it through.
Fancy, I pity you for having deepest darkest secrets because they make you vulnerable. If Davey wants to blackmail me he could try but my crimes would be out then, so after that he has no power other than trying to make me look bad and everybody knows how effective that is; this whole site is full of people that prove it to be extremely counter productive. But then again, it’s composed of people that frankly don’t give a damn.
OMG – in so many comments, I’m sure mine will be drowned, and my point here may have already been gone over.
I was the HAS STL for 2 years and I personally had to label ethics folders with that exact wording!!! I’ve always known it was “Priest/Penitent Privileged”. I have marked hundreds of ethics files.
Guess I have a bit of an MU on this though. I must have been thinking that it meant it was confidential to “outside” eyes. Meaning it couldn’t be brought into a court of law or brought up as evidence etc. Most Scn justice actions require mentioning things that are in an ethics file, I.E. Court of Ethics, Comm Ev and Findings – oh don’t forget the SP declares! So these items must not actually be “confidential”, but “Priest/Penitent Privileged”. Bah….do I have an MU?? This rubber stamped message on all files was only a legality against seizure of the files, I thought.
Why else would a sec check be started with the “R” factor, “I’m not auditing you”??? Because it is not going to be confidential? Sick twisted shit.
I’ll add here – per the PL on OW write ups, that when you’re finished, the EO ensures they are complete etc (has read them all), then you go to the examiner, I know he/she keeps the write up. I thought they should then filed in the PC folder???
As a staff member (HAS), I have been in qual hundreds of times and been in the vacity where the Sr CS and Qual sec were discussing PC’s cases and things that had come up in sessions, and including things highly personal to a person. I was appalled and I know I’m preaching to the choir on this one, but you have to know this is NOT isolated, by far. Stuff in PC folders are commonly discussed by tech staff and overheard by others, similarly, OW write ups. Sick…absolutely sick.
I have to chuckle a bit when I think of all the people who are secretly reading these blogs thinking that this stuff only happens to “others”, or that we somehow “pulled it in”. For those of you, I have to ask……is it worth it taking the chance? Do you really want to be honest in your OW writeups and take the chance that some day it could be twisted up and written up against you in a PT situation? Do you really want to be honest in your auditing sessions and take the chance that it could also be twisted up and written up against you? Do you really want to take the chance that the 20 somthing year old handling your PC file or your ethics file (or anyone for that matter) is actually “in ethics” himself and not going to talk about your OWs or case to someone else? I can ASSURE you it is happening in orgs. I have witnessed it hundreds of times!
So, go ahead and use the tech inside the church, cautiously. LOL….Now, lets take this a step further – if you aren’t honest in sessions and in OW writeups —— the tech simply will not work. Think about it. Sick little trap. And these days being exploited by design.
Go back to my write up….it’s children playing “office”, unhatted, inexperienced at life in general and for the most part, just parroting what they are told! No ability to think with the data, therefore continuing the total misapplication of policy. Why are these young unhatted staff in place? Because a lot of people wisen up about what is actually happening behind the scenes (on staff) and get OUT (route off staff) and leave unmanned areas all the time. Funny, some of those same people destimulate a few months to a year or so later and forget how bad it was on staff, they forget how things they witnessed made no sense etc. Sorry, just a rant here!
Oh, I have things to say….yes I do. I have so many things to say.
Don’t get me started! LOL. I’m going back to read all the comments now!
Sam, have a question. Was the prior auditor bull-baiting your daughter from memory of the sessions he/she had given to your daughter? Was this shortly after the time of the auditing or months/years later. What is the relationship of this bullbaiting to the handing over of your daughter’s folders to OSA, if any? Just trying to get clear on what happened.
Both activities are disgusting, to say the least.
Poor cat.
Thanks Jim. It’s good to track though and find the actual LRH policies that apply and the reasons they were written – a difficult task when data seems to appear and disappear at (DM’s) will.
What is very clear thoughout all LRH tech and admin in the area though is that the getting off of O/Ws is purely for the benefit of the PC and it was never ever LRH’s intention that any information be used as a weapon.
Only the sickest mind would violate the willingness of a PC to communicate in this foul manner.
Mr. Jim;
This was true even in the GO days. I was there. The only information I ever looked at had to do with affidavits of acts would could be used against the church. Over half of the time the person remained on lines but the affidavit simply documented the activity, what church policy it was in violation of, and that the person wished to avail themselves to the use of the tech to better their life. I only kept the affidavit in GO files and all records remained in the PC folder.
Not to say all GO staff did it this way but I was a minister and always maintained this integrity. Others are simply justifying their off policy actions as to an end they wanted.
I have had public thank me at the end of the cycle and never again have I said another thing to them about that. Just as RJ has noted several times not everybody with access to the private data has abused it. I always did what I felt protected the church but in a way that also left the public with their integrity intact unless they were not eligible to be there.
I would say many current OSA staff feel the same way but are too scared to stand on their personal integrity and follow the purpose and intent of the LRH policy. HCOPL 13 March 1965 The Structure of Organization What is Policy?
…
“Policy is a guiding thing. It is composed of ideas to make a game, procedures to be followed in eventualities and deterrents to departures.
The basic policy of an activity must be the defining and recommending of a successful and desireable basic purpose.
… POLICY is a rule or procedure or a guidance which permits the BASIC PURPOSE to succeed.
…If bad policy or laws or actions based on rumour rather than raw facts become too frequent and general, then the basic purpose of a being, organization or group becomes itself distracted, smother and forgotten and the result is shrinkage, loss of power, death and oblivion.”
The basic purpose of orgs is to help people by making Clears and Trained Auditors – period. Invented opposition that does not exist and solving non existent battles of your own making are not the basic purpose. Using private information for any other purpose is part of the cause of the shrinkage and loss of power or organized Scientology. Death and oblivion follow. This will occur to the church. This does not have to occur to the Philosophy and Technology. All staff and active public reading this need to think with the data and read the LRH. As yourself if you think LRH would do this at this time?
This is why the current tactic of DM and crew of using HCO Sec Checks and ethics files as personal vendettas against ex staff is so destructive of Scientology.
OW phenomena exist – it is real. If you commit overts (actions mostly destructive vs. mostly constructive) against someone or a group, YOU are affected adversely. You become the effect of the person/group. You individuate from the person/group. You increase the space between you, and lower the overall ARC. They become some other thing – not one of you. You end up some other thing – not really yourself.
Properly done, OW processing and confessionals (non-HCO) bring you out of the cycle.
This is the cycle of an overt – there is more. This is a deep and rich subject, and it pisses me off that the current regime has squandered the trust it takes to allow people to get the case gain they deserve from OW.
I’m right there with you Mike.
I had to answer up to my daughter seeking reassurance that no-one would ever read what she had revealed in session… no easy task and a heartbreaking situation to be in. On top of that she was a mess from the squirrel C of M auditing and didn’t trust anyone to audit her out of it.
Thanks to Marty it’s all sorted out now. A few short days at the shack and she has never looked back – Marty I am eternally grateful.
Eli – good luck. I wish you well.
“14 year old nazi youth.”
That is what DM was 36 years ago.
First order of business: If you have a child under 18 on staff, you are to be ridden out of town on a rail. Let kids be kids and get educated.
Hi Lady Minn
The bull-baiting was going on during the auditing while my daughter was with the ‘auditor’ outside of session. My daughter didn’t tell me about it until last year as the auditor had managed to convince her that pretty much anything that went on between them (including the overts disclosed) should not be discussed with me as it would be ‘out-ethics to talk about her case’. Of course this was completely non-standard and just put her on a withhold of everything and cut her comm line to me. Pulling the data out of her was like pulling teeth as it was now an overt to communicate with me about it!
Earlier this year it was communicated that my daughter was not doing well and her request to have her PC folders destroyed was forwarded to Mace Kingsley. Her folders were pulled. Were they pulled by a senior technical terminal at Flag in order to find out what could be done to get her winning and doing well again? No. they were pulled by OSA…
My seven years of experience with a Wise consulting group showed me that Wise Int was interested in pretty much one thing and one thing only…MONEY. They never inquired as to how the clients were doing, life changing wins, difficulties in consulting, how to do better, etc. ONLY, how much we were sending in royalties that week. I embellish not.
Sam
You might want to remind OSA that your daughter was a minor and her statute of limitations doesn’t even start until she turns 18. Further she never signed a legal application stating the records were the property of the church. Unless the ranch was a mission or church then the records are NOT theirs to have or keep. Privacy laws for minors exist and their is a chink in the armor of OSA to deny you the records.
Whether she has attention or not they records are not theirs to have.
Anything she stated or had filed in their which has been used or disseminated has some liability to the church. Any records of a medical nature are fully covered under HIPPA laws and these have very big teeth.
Any pc folder or ethics folder with a copy of a medical or doctor report fall under HIPPA rules. These include maintaining records of all who access the records and what they actually read and where this was further disseminated to.
Just a thought.
Good rant!
Marty, I validate (acknowledge) the truth where I find it; here, on other sites, in the Church of the Other Fish to Fry, or in LRH’s writings and spoken word.
I point out the crap where I find it; here, on other sites, in the Church of the Other Fish to Fry, or in LRH’s writings and spoken word.
I do that in public and in private.
If there is something else you would have me do then name it and I will give your recommendation due consideration.
RJ,
You’re right now that I remember. Confessionals were the normal until about 1982 or thereafter when Miscavige got more control as Special Ops. The exception as you noted was FPRD. But even then FPRD was usually had the “NAY” R factor.
In accordance with this blog though is the fact that auditors were and are instructed to write “Non- Actionable” reports to ethics files for overts gotten off in session. I’m pretty sure this is one of the CS Series bulletins somewhere in the 90’s numbers. (Logan, do you know what I’m talking about?).
Jim;
Any and all group sec checks or roll back actions should also be in the pc folder. The meter was used as part of the action to get the person to give up verbal data which should be written down. Even as perverted from the purpose of auditing as it is the wording required by the Federal judge after the FDA case covers it. On the back of the meter is the following:
HUBBARD ELECTROMETER MANUFACTURING
By itself, this meter does nothing. It is solely for the guide of Ministers of the Church in Confessionals and pastoral counselling. The Electrometer is not medically or scientifically capable of improving the health or bodily function of anyone and is for religious use by students and Ministers of the Church of Scientology only. HUBBARD, E-METER and SCIENTOLOGY are trademarks and service marks owned by RTC and used with its permission.
So this is either part of the confessional or pastoral counseling procedure or it is violation of the court ruling. Can’t have it both ways.
RJ,
Are you referring to Steve Crivello? That was a wild and wierd situation.
It’s a shame that a lot of people who have woken up to the madness of the church of scientology are still not aware of the extent to which it has slanted their thinking. So you still think psychiatry is the enemy, right? It’s not. Why not do some research and find out if your views of psychiatry are actually backed up by reality? LRH had a huge hump against psychs. But why not look for yourself (not in Hubbard books) and see what’s there?
Sam,
On the tracking of this area I’ve found PL 7 Jan 85, HCO CONFESSIONALS. This is an ‘assisted by’ issue, that is Snr CS Int at that time (Ray M as I recall) compiled this. (Whether it got LRH approval or not is a matter of record. Someday, those records will be checked and ANY actual LRH writing related to this will be verified. DM’s ‘word’ that it’s all OK now ain’t cuttin’ mustard. )
There is zip, zero, nada in this PL from early 85 that justifies a violation of the priest /penitent relationship either.
At this point several things are clear:
1. ALL confessionals, for whatever purpose or who ever does them, which are all to ‘ministers’ either in HCO or any other person, are to be filed and ARE part of the pc folder. Ethics folders themselves are covered by the priest/penitent proviso as are pc folders.
2. In no case is there any issue that sanctions a violation of the priest /penitent relationship written by L. Ron Hubbard or any Policy of Bulletin -HCO PL or HCO B – that suggests or permits such a violation.
3. The law of the land is the source of the priest/penitent privelege and the CofS is subject to that law. There is evidence they have broken that law. This breaking of that law does NOT fall under any First Amendment protection.
The exact squirrelling of the extant issues is the topic of an article I’m setting to write for Scn Cult, to go with the sqirrelling of ‘disconnection’ and FNs that are posted there under my name.
I’m not asking you to do anything. I merely commented you did a splendid job arguing the church’s defense. I find it a specious defense, but I’ll not preview for the church how at the moment.
Meshell,
I’m going to make an experienced and educated guess that in the early 80s alarming, embellished and outright false reports on the area of ‘confessionals’ were forwarded to LRH by…David Miscavige/Pat Broeker. (This collusion has been reported previously on this blog and in others.)
As a result, ‘advices’ and comments and suggestions from LRH occurred back down the lines. Issues were compiled in RTRC to ‘deal with’ the dubious facts reported by DM/PB. These are not actually written by LRH. They are claimed to be approved by him.
The ACTUAL issues from this time and following it do not sanction rampant and inapplicable ‘Sec Checking’. The last one I’ve found, HCO PL 7 Jan 85, HCO CONFESSIONALS, states: “I depend on auditors, C/Ses and HCOs to intelligently and effectively apply the data in this HCO PL to assist the pc in keeping his hands clean and his case advancing.”
The issue also covers abuse of confessionals:
“This can also be abused in the other direction. I have actually seen a pc become ill after his auditor (quite incorrectly and in gross violation of the Auditor’s Code) tried to make him guilty for overts revealed in session. I’ve seen a pc fold up after
being charged for overt acts he’d gotten off in the confidence of a session. This is why the Auditor’s Code is written as it is. It is a question of case gain.
“But where one knowingly withholds a crime until he gets into session, it IS a matter for RCO. If it is revealed, whether in session or not, that the person knowingly withheld a crime until session so as to escape the Ethics Officer, a Knowledge Report is written and sent to Dept 3 for action (assignment of a lower condition, court, Committee of Evidence, etc.). This applies to ANY auditing.”
Again, the EXPECTATION of privacy and the priest/penitent privelege is a matter of the laws of the land and is not something to be unilaterally set aside by any person in the Church of David Miscavige. NO CofS policy/bulletin does so. That’s so, even if the O/Ws are ‘actionable’ as those actions do not include a violation of that privelege or the laws of the land that it is expressed in.
mike, you also need to realize, you were one of those people that inflicted pain on people for years as head of osa. 34 years is a long time of hurting people. you knew what you were doing was wrong, but you did it anyway. you loved your job as head of osa, the info, the voyeurism, the eval, the handling etc etc. and you were good at what you did. let’s not kid a kidder.
you went into the so to help but you stayed cause of the bottomline, you loved your job. it’s ok to love what you do. put it to positive use, for good instead of evil. now i guess the hard part for you to figure out is how to get an exchange for doing what you love to do, besides court.
here’s an idea, put your own corp there and set up shop to monitor miscavige, get the goods on him, etc etc. this will come in handy for all the court cases coming down the pike. it’s a win win for all 🙂
just do it ethically. ethics, tech & admin 🙂
Great post, Jim.
My Grade II was amazing! Most people who have actually lived life have picked up their fair share of “secrets” along the way. Things they absolutely do NOT want to tell anyone else about. Not that most of these (secrets) are so terrible. Many are just plain embarrassing. IMO, there is nothing on this planet as liberating as communicating all this withheld junk to someone who knows how to listen, without judging, in a safe space. Someone, in other words, who knows and follows the Auditor’s Code. If you have not experienced the spiritual freedom and expansion that occurs as the inevitable result of getting rid of all this baggage, you cannot possibly understand what Scientology (technology) is all about.
To use this information in any way to embarrass, harass, threaten or harm the person who conveyed it, constitutes a direct attack on the spirit – one of the greatest crimes imaginable.
IMO as always.
http://www.mod-langs.ox.ac.uk/russian/childhood/pavlikmorozov.htm
to sam,
i’m not an expert, but as i recall, there is not suppose to be any auditing done on children in the first place. why mace kingsley is auditing children instead of teaching, being a school is beyond me. i was under the presumption that they just use LRH study tech, that’s all. you might want to put their ethics in, take them to court so they don’t fuck up anybody else’s kids.
I remember one lady in particular who violated the priest/penitent privilege as if it were her second job – Kathy True from OSA.
I know my priest/penitent privilege and ethics/pc folder have been treated like script material for a city-wide horror/comedy and all the info and attacks come from Flag.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I would assume the law they are breaking is categorized as Libel. As far as them being able to prove it, that’s a catch 22 for them as their proof is in priest-penitent folders and would be against the law to do such.
I see one of a few things happening in the near or somewhat distant future here. One: Eventually the Church will have pissed off over 3,000 individuals who are willing to put their name on a class-action lawsuit and inevitably win – receiving millions a piece for defamation of character and libel. Two: The laws of probability say it’s essentially inevitable for the Church to slip up big time and just give media something blatantly incriminating. Either way, the Church’s asinine antics can no longer be inculcated as mundane and normal into their current patronage for much longer. LRH says things don’t stay the same. They either improve or decline. I’d say things are declining in our favor these days.
CharlieD,
I personally got my data from Peter Breggin, in Toxic Psychiatry, as well as tracts put out by the Clarke Institute of Psychaiatry in Toronto, Ewan Cameron’s work as elucidated by Naomi Klein’s work on the Shock Doctrine et al.
LRH had a ‘hump’ as you say against bullshit masquerading as ‘treatment’. Like DM’s ‘treatment’ for example.
It looks like it was cancelled by a later policy, see below.
So, in effect, what DM has intended has been effective. You’ll keep your ‘deepest, darkest secrets’.
No, Jim, there are other churches where Mr Fancy’s deepest, darkest secrets can be shared without fear of disclosure.
“This policy is very clearly related to defense against raids and other outside attacks”
A word on this:
“That would have been fallout from the Toronto Snow White police raid in 1983.”
Should be found on an A-J check, which is not a “confessional” but an interview to determine any destructive connections/intent when you enter an organization — BEFORE being allowed on staff or service. Quite different from someone who spends 30 years contributing to Scientology and then airing their “dirt” as blackmail if they go out of line.
Really…..
thanks for the advice. Going to have a chat with my attorney 😀
Thank you VERY much!
Mike – I’m right with you on that.
Thank you Dr. Gold. Can I have a holier-than-thou eval too while you are at it?
RJ,
I read the issue in a new unit of time. I paid particular attention to para 8, the one beginning “That the intention…”
I’m missing your point.
Of course ‘DM’ as an individual is not THE source of human aberration. He is however currently THE problem at hand, preventing an effective handling of the material of this referenced HCOB and factually restimming the GPMs discussed. Right?
Nice ranting.
Reminds me of a funny incident (I can laugh now), when I was doing very badly on security training at the Int base. I was there under great protest and it just wasn’t panning out, I hated it. After I had done an O/W write up the Chief was reading them behind a screen. Every now and then I heard a “Oh my God” and once “that’s disgusting” while he was reading. I sank further and further into the floor.. Well, 2 days later I was on the RPF. The rest, as they say, is history. (Jackson, what was that guy’s name – 1985, bit fat guy with moustache…?). The RPF assignment was justified by Dick Aznaran’s notorious, squirrel “10 General Orders”.
The contradiction of Tommy Davis stating (truthfully) that ethics and PC folder contents fall under priest-penitent privilege on the one hand and OSA using those contents against detractors is irrefutable evidence of Fair Game.
It’s Miscavige’s exhumed Fair Game Law in full blown action.
Yes, the contents of PC folders and ethics files are confidential per Church of Scientology rules and policy unless you happen to disagree with David Miscavige in which case you are no longer protected by those rules so anything you have said in auditing or ethics sessions will be reviewed and used against you.
It’s simple mathematics.
Contents of ALL auditing and ethics actions = confidential material.
Church of Scientology officials (witness T. Davis) know that such = confidential material.
So, any illegal use of such material = action pursuant to Fair Game.
Eli,
I admire your integrity and willingness to “make it go right and persist until it does.” We got your back….
BTW, since “priest-penitent priviledge” is a legal term, doesn’t it just mean that anything said or divulged in a confessional can’t be used in a court of law? For example, I tell my auditor that two years ago I robbed a bank, this can’t be communicated to law enforcement? However, this data could be in a KR that goes to ethics, and would probably be something that would get me sent to ethics, and might even make me an illegal PC?
I think this is ED was written more to protect the church than the PC, meaning the government can confiscate the folders and use any crimes revealed against the church. I also think it was supposed to prevent the government from getting access to what’s on the OT levels, though these days it’s kind of a moot point since that’s all over the Internet anyways.
Oops, I meant, “I think this is ED was written more to protect the church than the PC, meaning the government CAN’T confiscate the folders and use any crimes revealed against the church.”
to marty, sure, why not. now i know where you are at. thanks for the confirmation.
Kathy, don’t you look at what you’re writing before you hit send? You should. It just wreaks of hostility. OW’s on Mike? Just sayin’.
ps. I think you can expect a call from OSA. I bet they’d like to recruit you.
Actually, Marty, you commented nothing of the sort. Your original reply was simply an ad hominem basically stating that I, whom you do not know from Adam, had “given up on doing something about it”.
As to your followup comment that I did a “splendid job arguing the church’s defense”. Thank you. Sincerely. My stated intent was to provide “food for thought”.
Trust me, the Church does not need me to point out possible defense. I do think that any site that is as one-sided as those we see all around in this “battle” needs a little hand to raise from time to time to say “err, excuse me …” I think we can use that here more than another “Right on , Marty”. Nothing wrong with those (right on, Marty!) but that contingent is already well represented. What is not often so well represented is, what I will be so bold as to label, a somewhat more exterior view. In my small way, I try to provide that – here, on WWP (usually anonymously), even on the “Church-controlled” Marty-hater sites. Yes, I have snuck a few “err, excuse me …” comments in on those, too.
I did not say you were asking me to do anythng, I asked what you would have me do. I am curious.
What is true for you…
My point – Nothing can justify violating session confidentiality. Rather than destroying the sancity of auditing – find your criminals some other way.
Thanks for the eval, inval and smack-down, all in a few sentences.
Sheeesh!
don’t worry watching eyes, i’ll be seeing them down the future track, like i said, the apparatus is fun.
Karen,
Aside from the “Need to know” basis, there’s also a much larger consideration – what is DONE with the information obtained.
DM & Pat used to joke about what was obviously PC data especially if it was 2D oriented; Sarge or JB would have probably observed that as well.
DM used to use this information in his toasting briefings to the whole Int base crew every Saturday night, ostensibly to put ethics in; but as time went on to put him above all others in probity & most in ethics, hard working person & demonstrating that a large number of Int base crew were scum and out ethics cats.
Contrast this with what LRH did with “case data” which he observed on Joe Howard – one of his staff at the time: http://www.scientology-cult.com/blogs/joe-howard/395-lrh-and-the-first-tech-film.html
Heather G,
Easy there. I said ‘practitioner’. I didn’t say any particular one.
I know that the most effective one I’ve ever confessed to was an auditor, practicing with the Auditor’s Code.
kathy,
Me too!
Lucy,
Interesting thoughts – there are Personnel files and student files as well which is kept if you were on staff/SO aside from the Ethics and PC/PreOT files. Life Histories – very extensive personal information is kept in Personnel files as well as PTS A-J meter checks etc. needed for posting people. I remember LH’s were then computerized by Incomm and one had to update those yearly – Incomm would not allow you to login to their system unless the form was updated. I’m sure LH information is another source for OSA to gather blackmail, black PR ammunition.
You’re right OTDT,
Also WISE has a set of Confidential policies (same name as the ‘public’ issues, but marked ‘Confidential’. Certain wording in sentences within the policies are changed even though the 2 policies(Wise Members/Confidential. have the same name.
Money motivation & the real intention of routing Wise Consultants ‘customers’ into the church is the name of the game.
LDW,
Great on making more of the most valuable people! I’m amazed at getting a comm ev for writing KR’s – what’s wrong with that picture & Ethics/Justice system of Mestology?
Martin,
Ughh. You my poor man had the only perfect being in the world reading your OWs.
Way back when at Flag I was the Exec College In Charge for a time. OW write-ups were being piloted with my students. I read each and every one, under the strict discipline of the Auditor’s Code.
Any real auditor will corroborate my experience; it was quickly apparent to me that pretty much every write-up was similar to every other – and my own. We’ve all pretty much done it. Even the ones where I was impressed with the creativity in the salacious bits, within a couple of write-ups, there’d be something comparable if not nearly the same.
It sounds very much like the guy you had reading yours, hadn’t done his yet.
Jethro, That may be but even so…it had better BE SO to be respected by the government. In other words….it had better be a genuine and priest-penitent rapport, sacred, consistent and the genuine foundation upon which counseling and confessionals are ministered in order to warrant government respect and protection. Even a government respects the sanctity of that trust.
The priest-penitent trust, the Auditors Code, is not a whimsy charade to keep or violate for any self-serving cause that comes down the pike, or a righteous-sounding banner employed to manipulate law keepers. It is the very foundation upon which auditing and human betterment can work. Its casual and routine violation is no small thing. There really are some things that are holy in this world.
Sam —
Jesus wept.
Buddah cried.
Marty, Mike — thank you so much for enabling some of this black, heinous stuff to be resolved.
Me? Let’s just say torches and villagers…..
Bruce
Haydn,
Action pusuant to Fair Game = perjury on DM’s part.
Fair Game has plenty o’ case law agin’ it = the long arm reaches.
JBodine,
Or it means Breach of Trust on the part of those entrusted. It doesn’t much matter what the issue may or may not have been written for when it relates to the expectation of privacy the term ‘preist/penitent privelege’ does express.
I fully expect that Fiduciary Duty be fulfilled and if need be will see to it, legally speakin’.
This sword cuts lots a ways. The hemorrhage in DM’s camp that you are seeing is evidence. More to come…
The inverse of that is that when real confession and self-exploration can occur, one emerges with enough awareness, integrity and strength, and grows from realizations so tricks that bullies and evil uses become obvious and we even more realize the big Control Hoax that “we are evil.” 🙂
It’s interesting to note that people one might think would actually be deserving of vicious attacks — for example those few who commit really heinously evil transgressions against life— never get the vicious self-righteous blathering public attacks like those leveled at basically decent people.
When I see someone yammering and going to enormous lengths to discredit someone, I look. Hell knows no wrath like a withhold missed… and bullies are too cowardly to attack real evil. Only decent people, imperfect like me, do 😉
Exquisite poem, Gary!
On the eval that is, Dr. Gold.
Jethro ~~
An A to E interview is done before acceptance as a pc into the HGC . If criminality is found, (“TYPE B”) acceptance is not granted and the person has to go handle that as an out Qual. Reports are sent to the local DSA (OSA REP) and a routing-in pc who has done felonies would need OSA clearance.
Now this sounds good. Sounds like a plan.
Except extreme criminality is quite permissive when on lines already.
A couple of quick examples ~~
+++++It was well known in many Scientology circles that something was UP with Reed Slatkin. But he was HUGE Donor …therefore no Ethics was implemented even though he was scooping in megabucks to “invest for high return” all over Scientology lines (something inherently forbidden by WISE as a general rule)
Why ? Slatkin was a high roller $$$$$$. Giving super nice donations to the Church.
++++Much more recently a dentist in Miami gave unnecessary procedures (surgeries) and raked in the buck$$$$ for FSO. Criminal conduct?
NO PROBLEM !
Not if you are GOLD MERITORIOUS DIAMOND LAUREATE
heading towards TITANIUM PLATINIUMUS LAUREATE
Dear Kathy,
Pardon me.
But there seems to be a contradiction here:
You say you “agree with vic, it still doesn’t justify violating session confidentiality.”
Yet you suggestion implied with the following question completely contradicts your above assertion.
“why didn’t the church take these people and prosecute under the law?”
Aside from that being a complete and utter violation of priest penitant priviledge which is what this article happens to be about.
The Church has no power to “prosecute under the law”.
(I’m sure a “power” Dave and his elitist friends are working on but so far haven’t achieved.
Lucky for us!)
“they take everybody else to court or jail etc, why not these people?”
As far as I know the Church has never actually physically taken anyone to jail.
Taking them to court is a different thing and is covered under the 7th Amendment.
Besides what you’ve stated is a generality.
Since not “everybody” has been taken to court by the Church.
Also you and dear vic seem to have missed the obvious point.
And that is the need for security especially on an aberated planet such as ours.
And the need to prevent the organization from being infilitrated by individuals such as say….
David Miscavige and all his little helpers.
Barnie
Just a note from my experience.
I did my FPRD basic list in 1980ish. I did it at LA Day under Genie Bogvad as the CS. I was told that I was the first public person to complete the basic list. The sessions, as I recall, were not prefaced with “I’m not auditing you.” My gains on the processing were astounding. My insights and understandings relating to “ethics” were broad and basic, though we never touched on the subject directly. The total simplicity of ethics, the dynamics, the conditions, the admin scale, the Code of Honor and the policy “responsibility, definition of” and their interrelationships all fell into place for me.
Regarding an LRH policy of auditors sending “non-actionable” reports to ethics files. I did not find one but found this BTB canceling an LRH issue….HCOB 7 Nov 1972, Issue V, (same title).
It is BTB of 7 Nov 72R ” Miscellaneous Reports”.
Under “Ethics Reports” it says’ in part,
“When an Auditor finds an Ethics Situation he should mark it and circle it in red after the session. The pc is not necessarily turned in because a pc cannot be tried on his auditing, it’s illegal, but the Auditor should make mention of it on his Auditor’s C/S.
If it is a serious Ethics Situation that affects others, then it is the Auditor’s responsibility to report it.
The Auditor would make out the report with a carbon copy. He marks it “SESSION KNOWLEDGE REPORT
NON-ACTIONABLE ON(pc’s name)” and makes out the report. Both copies are left in the folder. The C/S initials the one for Ethics and sends it on. The other stays in the folder.”
I did not find any other references.
Hope the data helps clear things up.
WW
Eli, I understand and thank you for looking and ever-operating from the standpoint of correcting outpoints and keeping true. I understand that feeling, of shame and embarrassment FOR those caught up in the other-game that is not about delivery at all. The few things I saw that Freedom magazine was publishing to smear Marty and whistle-blowers were not only undeserved by the individual, but far beneath the standards and ethics of any respectable publication, let alone a “human rights” magazine, let alone a “church”!
BTW I don’t see you having to come out to the other side or join or unjoin anything. There is really only the tech and its application…or not. It’s pretty simple.
Thank you for speaking out. Your single voice of speaking truth against hurtful injustices levied against good people carries more comfort than you may imagine.
Actually the PL in question is much earlier than the one given and is entitled ‘HCO May Do Confessional Lists’ 13 Nov 74 that supposedly cancels ‘Sec Checks Abolished’ which is in the newer OECs but not in the originals.
The other one I think is 1972 and the date is given in another post which forbids HCO from doing confessional lists.
The point is that there also are many BTBs and BPLs that were issued around that time as well which I suspect the 13 Nov 74 PL may be which started the whole “Integrity Processing” fad during the early to mid ’70’s.
Something he discusses in the HCOB ‘Tech Correction Roundup’ in early ’77.
The problem is that many of the HCOBs and PLs since released through RTRC were formerly BTBs and BPLs that served some ulterior motive.
Valkov,
You’ve nailed it.
p.s. The 8 Mile reference on the last thread…:-)
Gee I beg to differ Big Mike.
But Miscavige was too buzy consolidating his power over at ASI for an eventual power push against the Broekers plus creating a Rubik’s Cube of a legal scene via MAC to worry about a bunch of errant Franchise Holders.
Not to mention running up against the GO’s Corporate Sort out operation.
Lest we forget Lyman Spurlock in his favored role of Eminence Gris.
As far as what I saw Vicky and Wendell were wielding whatever power they had in the most abusive way possible!
Hi Kathy
Mace Kingsley is a field group that delivers auditing and training to children and yes you are correct that their ethics need to be gotten in as it is with the entire ‘church’ and I completely agree that children need to be protected from this type of abuse.
Now I’ve addressed that I want to take up your communication to Mike (I feel it is my right as his comment was addressed to me).
It is extremely bad form to reply to a man’s honest, open, sincere and quite beautiful sentiment with a kick in the face.
Aside from that, let me ask you this:
How do you know what Mike supposedly ‘did’?…. Hmmm….
Was the information that you are operating on disseminated by OSA (culled from Mike’s ethics and PC folders) or was it gleaned from Mike’s confessions as regards his own wrong doing? How is this any different from the exact subject we are talking about here?
We’ve ALL done things we are ashamed of, the fact that we are ashamed of those things makes us incredibly unique and honerable beings. How important are someone’s past transgressions to you?
What is important is what we do HERE and NOW.
Don’t get sucked into OSA type behavior – leave that to the professional Black Dianeticists.
I have always considered my ethics cycles to be privilaged confidential.
1. Because all of my O/W write ups were always put in my P.C. folder with my P.C. data.
2. Because clear as a bell in the ethics book under SUPPRESSIVE ACTS:
“Providing an organization’s preclear folders, ethics files, student files, accounts files, central files folders or central files lists or partial lists to any individual, group, organization, mission or other unit or agancy for any reason or purpose, except those covered explicitly in existing Church policy;or to provide such files or lists to any indivual, group, organization, mission or agency which is unauthorized by or in bad standing with the Mother Church.”
Who is in bad standing?
Need I bring out all of the references on media?
Need I bring out the references on police?
3. It is also listed as a SUPPRESSIVE ACT to “Blackmail of Scientologists or Scientology organizations threatened or accomplished-in which case the crime being used for blackmail puposes becomes fully outside the reach of Ethics and is absolved by the fact of blackmail unless repeated.”
So, no, I do not expect the Church to use my P.C. folders or ethics folders to blackmail me either. It is implied in the culture bible this will not happen.
4. Lastly, and most important, it is culture code that you NEVER go to the police. Never. You pull the string on why people that were beaten or imprisoned or molested in any capacity, because people keep asking this over and over again. “Why didn’t you do something?” “Why didn’t you report it?” It is against the culture Bible to do that. That is why. And that is why I never expect the Church to dole out confidentail information. And that is listed in the Ethics book under SUPPRESSIVE ACTS as:
“Delivering up the person of a Scientologist without justifiable defense or lawful protest to the demands of civil or criminal law.”
It is against the law, to go to the law. if you are part of that culture.
So, no, I do not expect the Church to use any civil avenue with any matter that ever took place behind those walls.
But I can only speak for myself and my understandings based on what is written in the books that we are to take as biblical instructs in order to become operating spirits independent at will over matter energy space and time IF we are considering ourselves part of that culture and part of that group.
These are written for group members. There are no advices on how to act or behave outside of the Church for people who are not part of that group.
That is why the Church does not issue SP declares on terrorists or presidents or anyone else not inside the building or “on lines”.
Since there is that obvious disconnection from the rest of society, and an implication and all matters of social intercourse are private and held within that culture only, why on Earth would I expect to see anything from any part of my time track there running through communication lines of other cultures and civilizations?
I would not.
Thanks Jim.
Promoting you from Qual Ninja to KOT. Find a replacement 😉
I always like the references you bring to this blog. This is a great one!
Jimbo.
What is an implant GPM?
Well according to the above HCOB it is “an electronic means of overwhelming the thetan with a significance *using the mechanics of the actual pattern of living* to entrap the thetan and force obedience to behavior patterns.” (emphasis added)
Suggesting that Miscavige a high school drop out, a lousy student of Scientology and a complete moron is all by his lonesome is solely “capable of using the mechanics of the actual pattern of living to entrap the thetan and force obedience to behavior patterns” is even more fantastic to me than dearly departed Capn’ Bill’s idea that the Church was invaded by Marcabs.
Jim the HCOB says what it says about all this in paragraph 8.
Not to mention the HCOPL known as ‘Current Planning’ and the one known as ‘Politics Freedom From’.
Also the definition of *Blame* particularly definition number 2 warns us about assigning to much cause to a terminal and granting him or her too much power.
Using ones’s secrets against them is not something limited David Miscavige or just to Scientology.
Jimbo I beg to differ.
Even “Fair Game” does not grant a violation of the Church’s own codes regarding the sanctity of Confessionals.
So there was never any justification for it.
At any time!
Besides all “Fair Game” meant back then was that no further protection was granted by HCO.
Confessional Formulary does not fall under HCO though enforcement of it does.
Non-actionable KRs only applied to other peoples crimes reported in session Barney.
Read the issue regarding them by that title.
Also I audited hundreds maybe thousands of hours of FPRD and rarely ever used NAY.
The only exception was Form 10B Eligibility.
This whole thing of NAY sec checks was never started by Miscavige or the GO exclusively.
It was used by other HCO terminals and Execs quite a lot to get “problem staff” into line instead of applying Standard Tech.
In fact Ron covers this point in C/S Series 93 ‘The New Grade Chart’ under the section ‘Grade II’.
In Qual we were always asked to do a sec check on someone and we either used to tell ’em to take a flying f*ck at a donut or we’d program the case for standard review actions.
Since Qual “took orders from no one”.
Especially executive “C/Ses”.
However there were other “Quals” (note the quotes) who weren’t as vigilant and would cave in to some MAA, GO or OSA terminal or some dim witted Exec who used the C/S Series as a door stop!
In other words this contagion of aberation was not started by just one SP.
YES. Now sign your billion year contract NOW!
Opps. Sorry DM. What I wrote implied fair disclosure. Didn’t mean to put that on you of all people.
Touche’ Vic.
First of all as I explained earlier these revelations never went any farther than Tech or Qual and HCO and were only used to deny assess by what were considered security risks.
None of these reports were forwarded to police or heaven forbid the press and were held in the strictist confidence.
I just gave you a general summary of the *types* of security risks we found while I was working as a Non SO auditor in various PAC Orgs either by reviewing folders or in actual sessions.
The fact is they did exist.
Though I doubt if they do exist now to such an extent as the current Church seems to be on a program of Self Destruction under Miscavige.
Disinfected,
“We already know that all that material will be available in any ethics action; we know that it will show up in our SP declare. So little surprise that it is revealed elsewhere.”
This is very interesting. A true SP would not know that it was going to show up in their SP declare because true SPs don’t ever think they’re SPs, so of course they ain’t gonna think that. That only leaves non-SPs thinking that they’re gonna get declared SPs. What the hell kind of help environment is that, where the parishioners have to worry about being unjustly declared SPs???
I also disagree with you about ethics and HCO confessionals. If LRH meant to handle the whole sec check/HCO confessional ethics and justice and SP declare scene the way it’s been done, then I disagree with LRH about it, too.
If you gotta take people by the scruff of the neck and bang ’em on the back of the head to get ’em to cough up their O/Ws, then the wrong people are being sat down in the auditing chair.
All the goddamn grueling and interiorizing interrogation that I’ve seen and read about over the years under the guise of ‘sec checks’ or ‘HCO confessionals’, especially on poor damn staff members, hasn’t produced a goddamn thing except more interiorization, mistrust and gestapo tactics and harm.
If this system worked even to the tiniest fraction of the magnitude that it’s been applied then there’d be the most incredible, capable, robust, high-ARC, in comm staff in the world at Int. All this stupid system has done is to drive out all the good people and help destroy the repute of the subject!!!!!! It’s driven good staff into weak-kneed, trembling shells of their former selves and made them into obedient experts at saluting the high and mighty DM. Whoop-de-friggin’ do.
The whole formal scene is all chopped up, with “cold chrome steel” attitudes and degraded goose-stepping robotism. But oh, what nice buildings, built on the backs of overburdened parishioners who are bleeding from every orifice with a sense of personal responsibility and a copy-cat vampire’s lust for admiration that accompanies their status.
Sec Checks? What the hell’s a ‘Security Check’. One is not even trusted by their own church? Are we all left over Nazi or Communist spies from WW II? Korean agents? CIA, maybe? Ah, I know! Homeland Security Contractor Spies! Or infiltration from the Independents! Or Anonymous! Yeah, that’s it! Or Chinese guys with rubber heads, looking to steal and clone the Church of Scientology so they can manufacture it cheaper and take over the market?
SEC CHECK ‘EM ALL! I CAN SMELL THOSE OVERTS! WITHHOLDS! ALL OF ‘EM! THOUGHT CRIME! THOUGHT CRIME! WTF? HEY, IS THAT A MARTIAN OVER THERE???? SEC CHECK HIM!!! HE BLINKED!!
Confessionals = good. Got O/Ws? Wanna walk the road to freedom? OK, get ’em handled. Need help with ethics to get things squared around? Cool, here’s the help. Causing actual harmful acts against others? Justice time. Get parked off to the side until squared away.
The rest is all some kind of whole-track Nazi-type of dramatization that belongs in a bad science fiction movie. Who gives a shit if the FBI or CIA or Iranian agents want to come in to an org and train? What harm is it gonna do? Like their presence is going to poison others? Trained Scientologists in an academy can’t detect enturbulation and outright suppressive acts? Gotta sec check ’em for hours to try and find that out? Sounds like out-TR Zero or something if that can’t be easily spotted. Somebody went way, way overboard on this a long time ago.
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This is what Ron says about Disconnection.
I guess DM was blinded by money when he released this and he put the truth out!
Believe it or not, I sent this to about 10 people and none responded.
Great read below:
The Church of Scientology has just released the Advanced Clinical Course lectures on CDs, we find some very interesting data on disconnection. I bring you these fair use quotes from a lecture called “Attitude and Conduct of Scientology” (4th London ACC, 3rd November 1955) straight from LRH:
“…the arduous lesson along this line is that no-communication lists, revocation/suspension of certificates, court action of any kind whatsoever within the realm of Scientology and so forth, is not only not only difficult to do but does not work. That’s just the end of it. It just doesn’t work.It’s for the sea gulls. That might work in Gestetner Limited or Westinghouse, but it does not work in Scientology. Got that?”
“It’s because they are people of good intention. And by saying that these people are not fit to associate with us anymore, we have told a lie of magnitude. This is not true. It’s never true. You got it?”
“Our inability to understand the actions of other Scientologists has a very fascinating barrier. The limitation on our understanding is simply this: we say they have bad intentions, and that is a lie. Got it?”
“So the whole situation is liable to enturbulate around that postulated bad intention. That’s what enturbulates the situation. That makes a lie. “The situation then becomes unsolvable. Because we’ve entered a changing factor called a lie into it.”
“The most valuable asset we have, actually, is our ability to understand, to do the right thing, to be kind, to be decent.”
“Well, I hate to unsettle a very stable datum, if it does unsettle it. But the only way anything ever does resolve is by letting your own kind heart reach through. That’s the only way it ever does solve. “And it never solves by being tough.”
“What do we really have of value in the organizations of Scientology? The only thing we have of value, actually, is Scientology, an understanding of life, increasing ability to communicate, a good concept and grip on reality and the ability to like guys. That’s all you got.”
“And there’s only one more thing that we could know that would make us all feel very, very relaxed about the whole thing. There isn’t a person anywhere in Scientology who has bad intentions for Scientologists or their fellow man. And that point all by itself is very well worth thinking about the next time some trouble arises in your vicinity, because that is the truth. And if you handle a situation with that in mind, you will solve the situation.”
Lady Minn, you can contact me at independent_scientologist@hotmail.com
– Ron Matlock
jim, just call me a psych, you know you wanna.
besides, i embrace my darkside. my implanter family wouldn’t wanted it any other way.
to sam, i didn’t realize, honest, overt, direct comm was a kick in the face.
regarding my cycle, he watched the naked vid of me in my induced meltdown where i almost died. and then there was an op run on me, after i got out of the pysch hospital.
no, the information i’m operating on is my own personal experience.
i actually never did anything bad to anyone this life. i never fucked anyone over, i never stole, cheated, lied etc. it doesn’t mean i’m perfect and don’t have flaws. it just means, in present time, i have no transgressions on anybody. i guess, i was stupid in the past and i trusted the people in the church to help me when i asked for help. yes i agree, what i do here and now is important, but i won’t allow anyone to cut my survival. meaning die.
i’m not sucked into osa type behavior. i just know how they operate.
Great post Marty. The more communication that reveals the truth of the atrocities being committed by Miscavige and his lackies, the better. You made a very good point with your comment to metaqual — “Much of it comes down to the intent of the parties.” That really says it all about how wrong it is for the church to advertise anything a member reveals in confidence.
No one (except a victim or martyr) would say “I’m going to tell you all my overts, withholds and out ethics situations that I’ve ever been involved in and I want and expect you to announce any or all of those things publicly to anyone at any time you wish.” On the other side of the coin, no sane person would ask someone to do that.
One enters any church believing it is a safe haven. The church staff are there to create and maintain that safe haven.
Even in a court of law, a decent judge (of which there are many) would cut to the chase and get to the intent of the agreement. In other words, what was the spirit of the agreement to which each party entered.
In Fundamentals of Thought, LRH spells out “The Goal of Scientology” which is: “The end object of Scientology is not the making into nothing of all of existence or the freeing of the individual of any and all traps everywhere. The goal of Scientology is the making of the individual capable of living a better life in his own estimation and with his fellows, and the playing of a better game.”
Miscavige cannot claim that he is even remotely applying standard LRH Scientology tech that we agreed to and signed up for.
Early this morning after reading Mike Rinder’s comment above to Sam in response to her horror story about those who had dug through her young daughter’s pc folders and used the information to invalidate her, I felt compelled to tell Mike something. Because I thought my message was too personal to put on this public blog, I sent him a private email. However, after reading a comment above from one person who seems to value neither privacy nor simple manners, I would now like to share here what I said to Mike via email:
Mike, I read your post this morning about how Sam’s story about her daughter reinvigorates you. You must know how appreciated you and your efforts on this front are. And if people don’t tell you that enough, whether you ‘need’ to hear it or not, then thank you for your honor and your work.
Mike didn’t have to return to this crazy scene after leaving the Sea Org. He wasn’t required to take any responsibility to stop the crimes that occur in Corporate Scientology. He could have continued to destimulate in private from the horror that had been his life under David Miscavige and made a comfortable life for himself. He could have harnessed his considerable talents for his personal benefit. He could have even concocted a way to see his children when he wished. Instead he drew a line in the sand and said, “No more!” He put himself on the front line, making himself a huge target, inviting daily harassment from Miscavige and his minions, both underpaid and overpaid. Mike is here standing up for what he believes to be right, because his duty and his honor are stronger than his desire for personal gain.
By these and many other measures, Mike Rinder is a hero.
Just Me
to rj,
the church can prosecute for theft, stealing, actual crimes.
they sent daniel to jail for theft. i can be as general as i want. it’s a free country.
as far as infiltration goes, they need to be there. it’s a cult and nobody wants another waco or heaven’s gate. there are guns up at int.
RJ,
Duh! REALLY! Oh, that’s ‘news’…
🙂
Kathy — (if this is your real name), I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I have never seen any naked vid of anyone in an induced meltdown?
Are you just trolling here?
RJ,
I think you’ve been looking at ‘spooks’ too long. You are now differing with somebody, but I’m not sure quite who. Hee.
And I think that is why it upsets them, to see us sitting over here in this other dimension, in another culture and another civilization, discussing events from over there. You look at the wall around the Int Base. That says it all. This stuff was never supposed to leak from behind the walls or find it’s way into another dimension. But it did. That’s dissemination. And I recall when that Ethics book was written and what it was supposed to protect, that does not exist anymore. DM banked on those writings not to protect Scientology and Scientologists, but to suppress those things. But Scientology is powerful magic. And we are not, “the usual crowd”. His own A=A and “Nobody can flow anybody power” has been his own weakness. I can’t believe there are staff and volunteers still spying for him after knowing he does not think anyone can flow him power. These are the people he banked on. And he was right about them. These are the Martyr’s. But the truth is, in the theatre of Scientology, Hubbard never wrote a role for Martyrs.
Barney,
It appears to be one of the now infamous 82 issues. PL 10 Mar 82, CONFESSIONALS- ETHICS REPORTS REQUIRED.
kathy,
psychs aren’t a randomity for me. wrong guy.
Well, RJ – saying that “these revelations never went any farther than Tech or Qual and HCO and were only used to deny access by what were considered security risks.” is not the truth. Although I can see that it would be “your truth” from your non-SO perspective.
Sheeesh, I hope the GO/OSA didn’t lie to you about their activities.
I was on staff and in the sea org, both tech and admin trained. The folder culling and the confidential session discussions were not, by in large, for the purpose of rousting out the crim types that you list. Far, far from it. Public session info was even discussed with reges, for god sake – to enable them to “reg better” .
Sadly, while all the reporters, plants, federal fugitives, muderers, embezzelers, drug dealers, arms dealers, terrorists etc that you listed were being flushed out – the biggest SP of all seems to have skated by.
One doesn’t need to destroy the sanctity of auditing to roust out criminals.
EOS
Go to exams Jimbo 🙂
He is a good chaplain. Another hat on. Wow, this is kinda easy when the suppression is off the lines.
to mrinder. yes my real name is Kathy Gold.
ok, you have no idea of what i’m talking about. fine. but as head of OSA, you knew, had purvue. I was in comm with OSA from the psych hospital. You don’t remember my cycle in Aug/Sept 1998?
Kathy,
They never prosecuted Daniel!
As far as I understand it they are trying to get the DA to prosecute by claiming theft (a ridiculous assertion) of some drives (woo hoo)
The likely chances of the DA prosecuting such a case are about as likely as Mr. Ed winning the Preakness.
As as “they need to be there” is concerned.
I’m glad you have such an abiding faith in the State which as far as I’m concerned is just another.
I don’t and neither did Ron.
No Kathy, I dont remember your cycle. Are you still in a psych hospital?
Folks, there is more than one staff member following this blog and reading other sites. I know this for a fact because some have been in comm with me. Marty’s blog is somewhat of the daily news for Scientology, staff, public, independents and exes. A thetan never gives up, never stops trying to make it right. DM, that is why staff members lurk here and now post here. Welcome to the fray, Eli. Good to have you here.
No Mike, I was released back in sept 98, it was Labor day weekend. I was brought in on a Friday, left on Tuesday. Dan Stradford, OT8, came and picked me up. There were also 20 other scientologists there, when I first arrived. And another Sea Org member from ASHO named Bruce who I gave a locational to, in the psych hospital.
Dan Stradford, said, when he came to pick me up, We know about Bruce, I’m here for you, not him.
If you don’t remember my cycle, then you don’t remember it.
Sam,
A PROMOTION!! Do I get a raise? How about double? Write to ‘big pharma’ for me and we’ll do up the Caribbiean over the winter.
Sinar said
DM used to use this information in his toasting briefings to the whole Int base crew every Saturday night, ostensibly to put ethics in
Per reports of several escapees from INT BASE
masterbation witholds were read out to the whole crew to humiliate the confessed pc.
What “Church” carries on like ?
Explicit and very private confessed deeds would be read out to the entire crew with one purpose only.
TO MOCK and HUMILATE the confessor.
SP HOLE = where 60-100 Sea Org Vets are kept in lockdown behind prison bars.
The new arrival is SP HOLE had a pack of howling wolves attack the new arrival “WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?” even with punching and other physical attack.
This is an entity that wants to claim it is a CHURCH.
With 501C 3 tax exemption to boot !
I am ashamed that I contributed $$$$ and other contributions to DM’s cult subsequent to departing the Sea Org. I had already seen the darker side of the Church and I was a fool to continue being a “Good Scientologist.”
I had already left the CoS when the SP Times started publishing their Truth Rundown series. The Times said this about the CoS response to allegations by Marty, Mike, Amy and Tom:
” Church members write confessions, which go into “ethics files” that are supposed to remain secret. But to rebut the defectors’ allegations about David Miscavige, church officials took the extraordinary step of releasing excerpts from the files.”
I accepted this statement and for me it was the thing that sealed the deal. I was appalled that I had trusted the CoS, and at that instant knew I would never go back.
But in retrospect I realize that this description of CoS violation of privacy was written by the reporters, and is not necessarily how the CoS would describe the source of the material. Does anyone have any additional info they can add about this egregious action?
Those two articles you mention on Scientology-cult.com are excellent. I am looking forward to this new article. Thank you for all that you do.
g
Marty,
In my tiny incident, how they leaked my Ethics File material, OSA (Kirsten Caetano), got Kenny Shapiro to claim he saw material from my ethics folder, from which he then shared by email to various persons then (this was 2006ish) chatting on the yahoo groups XSO chat site.
On the phone, to Tom Smith, Kenny admitted working with OSA. On the phone to me, he only read his script statement, and wouldn’t let me speak.
Anyways, also, the Kirsten/OSA Int operation to smear me I put the emails from Kenny on my site, for history’s sake, so one can read exactly how Kenny Shapiro’s crafted language, I’m sure he didn’t write it, with info selectively taken from my Ethics File, I know, because I chose to write “Things That Shouldn’t Be” reports, on myself, in my North Korean prisoner of war mindset, thinking this would quench OSA’s thirst for self admissions, to gain my freedom and approval to route out of the Sea Org.
ON the RPF’s RPF, in PAC, the RPF’s RPF MAAs were Ed Parkin and Gigi Scudilari. Both OSA Int staff on the PAC RPF at the time I was there, Ed bunked in the RPF men’s dorm above my bunk for a time. And later when I routed out, it was Gigi and Ed to whom daily read my “THings That Shouldn’t Be” “admissions” which were routed to my ethics file, and from which Kenny Shapiro saw some sort of synopsis or summary, he admitted to Tom Smith and in emails he spread about, which I posted on ARS at the time he was sending those emails around.
So absolutely, there’s a paper trail, I’ll gladly participate in any legal action against Kirsten and Kenny Shapiro, and the paper trail is on my site, and on ARS, as regards all this.
Why doesn’t Mike just tell what Kirsten does!? Kirsten’s the busy beaver together with the OSA Int “FESers” who do the culling, and someone does the crafting of these falsely concocted reports that get shared with other parishioners, ALL based on Ethics Folder material.
Of course, I’m sure you and Mike know it’s even worse, with actual desctruction of what people, like me, did.
I made my admissions in my OWN handwriting, so they only way they can ever use anything against me, will be something in my own handwriting!
And I wrote that stuff for my Ethics File, as “Things That Shouldn’t Be” reports.
Also in my case, they (Kirsten and whomever is the actual OSA wordsmith for the Kenny Shapiro smear emails against me), also lied saying that I made these admissions to others verbally, and that is the loophole in my case they smeared me under.
I posted the gist of the smearing on me, for history. This is NOT religious behavior, yet it continues.
Thankfully the world outside Scientology is way more understanding and knows exaggerated strained confessions when they hear them, and the outside world is far more forgiving.
It’d be nice to see official Scientology cease these irreligious tactics someday.
My own tiny chapter of Scientology smearing of me, I’ve left on the internet as evidence it still continues.
http://chuckbeatty77.webs.com/kenshapiro.htm
http://chuckbeatty77.webs.com/kenshapiro2.htm
http://chuckbeatty77.webs.com/kenshapiro3.htm
Mark McKinstry told me that in Jan Feb 2006, all my RPF pc folders and ethics folders were gathered up by OSA Int.
At that time, I was heavily promoting ex Int Base staff to come forward and corroborate DM’s violence history.
Jeff Hawkins had not gone public, Mark Fisher had not gone public, Amy had not gone public, nor Marc Headley. In late 2005 I was posting on the anti Scn chat sites the stories from Jeff and Mark and Amy, and I was trying to get MORE people to come out, because no one was ready to talk to media about it yet.
I knew it would take a NUMBER of people all coming out, to provide media with fresh new cross corroborating stories, that media would run the story, like St. Pete Times did, and like Portland.
The tiny smearing of me, was a deflection mistake on Kirsten’s part.
She failed to see that I was getting my stories from Jeff Hawkins and Amy and Mark Fisher, and Kirsten failed to get that whole behind the scenes networking that was going on, stopped.
DM’s blatant recent years violence history js is NOT something that could continue to be hidden from the public.
This smearing of ex members to silence their honest historical criticism of blatant criminal behavior, which DM’s battery is blatant criminal behavior, just doesn’t work.
DM’s violence is now WELL KNOWN to anyone taking more than a superficial interest in Scientology.
DM ought to just have admitted his part in the violence history, and publicly apologized, and asked forgiveness, when the St. Pete Times story came out.
THAT would have been a far better turn to have taken rather than continue the irreligious smearing of ex members strategy.
Ah yes the elusive and aloft Terry Jastrow and his Earth Org.
Now that’s spooky Jimbo 🙂
I’m just in one of those op term moods tonight.
Don’t mind me.
Kathy Gold,
I would like to know what happened to you.
I know it may be hard, but can you say it?
Alex and Scott,
Thank you very much for your comm.
So, all day at work and all last night, I was chewing on something and it has to do with the people that are in the same position I am in – somethings wrong but what do we do?
If I may and if it’s OK with everyone here, might I use this forum to tell them what to do?
First of all, to my friends that have twice figured out my previous screen names, please apply the following reference: “Don’t ask; don’t tell” because everytime you chuckle and snicker and send me a text that what I said was “great, or funny or…” you put me at risk. It ain’t funny and what I’m doing here is trying to play a very pan-determined game and honestly, I have no idea if I’m playing it right, but at least I’m playing. In other words “Shut the F*** up, will ya?” Keep my name OUT of all your conversations. I’ve been doing that for you so please extend me the same courtesy.
(Sigh) OK, I feel better. Now to continue to the field…
How do you handle what you see in your area? It’s very easy because you see, the problem isn’t this or that or the Ideal Orgs, or the IAS, etc. Too late on the chain and so you are grinding and YOUR TA is stuck and that’s why you’ve given up.
We are battling what is called “The Hidden Data Line” and that’s the problem. I questioned the alteration of the PDC tapes and was told “Well, I’m sure it’s correct and there’s probably a reference where LRH said to do that and it’s confidential” or “There’s no possible way to show you all the work that was done and all the changes. It’s not for BPI”
But, if you TR3 your viewpoints, your concerns, your worries and insist on “being handled” it will open the door, per KSW, of whatever it is you don’t understand. It takes good TR’s and tremendous ARC because, my dear friends, you MUST take on the auditor hat for the group (yeah, all of us) and stop your bitching, moaning and complaining out here in the field. In other words, grow a pair and stop being such a whiny little PC.
Pleasse don’t leave me here alone. I’ve been at this for 10+ years. Write down everything you have a disagreement on, everything you don’t understand and for God’s sake, get up off your lazy ass and open up the OEC’s, (God, do I have to do everything around here????) After you have done that and you have your list of references, walk your butt into the Org, go look at the Org Board and find ONE terminal that is willing to sit down and talk to you. You will find him/her but it may take awhile. Use your Pro TR’s and always maintain ARC and sit down and start communicating! Just picture LRH standing behind you, watching, and you’ll know what to do. Extend these wonderful staff the chance to get hatted and to help you.
Please, per policy, take responsibility and re-read “Central Org Efficiency” with particular attention to what Ron says about YOUR neck being precious and not his.
If more and more of us would do this, things will change. If everyone just took some responsibility for what they don’t understand, it will get better. But when you natter and have HE&R and pull back and decide it’s not worth it, you allow bad things to happen to good people.
Thanks for allowing me to say this. At least I’m still here, communicating. Now it’s time for a beer.
I meant to say the State is just another cult.
This is one of those interupted Stream of consciousness nights…
Sheesh….
Whoa!
This 1955 tape by LRH, it just shows to me, just how important it is to have highly trained persons in the top management of the movement, because a fully trained Exec Strata staff or WDC staff WOULD KNOW this lecture, and USE it to temper the use of Scientology justice on Scientologists.
amazingly important reference!
To whom is this addressed?
Chuck, please email me. I now much more.
Yes, read the post again, Tommy’s sworn testimony and the Scn Policy directive.
Marty,
It’s addressed to the people in the field who read this blog, know they should do something but haven’t for various reasons.
Kathy, I am with you. I think I am going to expand on that with another post.
If this really happened write him an email and find out whether your admittedly supposed allegations are true.
Obviously, nothing as you seemed to believe everything is fine. Get a good night sleep.
Kathy — Are you saying there were 20 Scientologists in a psych hospital in Los Angeles?
Eli,
Well I find this very odd. You are telling people who read this blog – obviously sub rosa – to march into the church and start taking things up with them. Like you have allegedly been doing for ten years? Pal, you wouldn’t last ten days doing such. I feel compelled to advise all those reading Eli’s stuff to review again OT VIII Mary Jo Leavitt’s story (and documentation) and OT VII Tony Dephillip’s story (and accompanying documention). You can use the search feature on this blog and see more Mary Jo reports on Scientology-cult.com. Writing anything important up in the modern Radical “church” of Scientology is tantamount to signing your own death warrant in that group. Instead, I advise you to get the hell out before they ruin your family, your livelihood and steal all of your savings.
You’re right. I didn’t preface the question with any briefing. It was just looking for a straight “It’s OK” or It’s not OK” answer.
Dear Chuck,
I have known you for decades. You lost your Mom at a very very tender age and I know that this painful trauma was never even handled though you were Sea Org for some 35 years.
But years and years was spent asking for your Overts and Crimes …
This is Reverse Dianetics and 100% the reverse of what DMSMH is about.
I am sickened to learn that very private data from your pc folders and ethics files was used in a Yahoo Chat Room by an OSA OP (Kenny Shapiro) to smear and belittle you. Undoubtedly embellished to the point of LIES.
Private confessed data spread around in a Chat room ! This is what used to be ‘The Church of Scientology.”
Eli, I guess you are still determined to handle from the inside. Whoah. I guess we don’t realize how many really still are on the inside but ARE aware. Could be some serious numbers….
Some of us escapees are out here breathing fresh air (and some getting shot at also) and some are still working inside the prisons with the other prisoners.
If maybe 10% of all on the inside of DMs prison world would just rise up and go in to their org, like Eli is saying, well it could be precipitous, like in tipping things over the edge.
Maybe a timing thing – like at 2pm on Monday, Nov 22, there’s a signal sent around the whole world. They tore the Berlin wall down that way, didn’t they?
Vic,
Sorry Miscavige didn’t happen on my watch.
He was already in his ascendency at ASI when I got there and thanks to his erstwhile friend Kerry Gleason with the help of the (in)Justice Department the *Guardian*’s Office was effectively neutralized.
The International ACs and WW were dismantled and the Sea Org effectively had free reign over the entire Scientology network with absolutely no checks and balances.
It was supposedly your job to take him out.
Obviously you failed.
So stop trying to shift the blame.
Oh by the way I knew damn well what some of the GO was up to.
I just never participated in it.
You see not everyone in the GO was the epitomy of unmitigated evil.
Contrary to the bloviations of a criminal mind.
In fact his current actions make them look like saints.
Yeah they should have been called WISTC for World Institute of Scientology Tax Cruds.
Thanks for the back up Valkov.
No thumbs up on my keyboard so I guess a 🙂 will have to do.
Jimbo,
You rock dude.
I was coming to that conclusion myself but you beat me to the punch.
Your last paragraph pretty much covers it.
QS,
Yes, the church (particularly Flag) was very interested in getting the Wise consulting clients in for services…so they could get MONEY!
Wise Int only ever expressed interest in money.
Wow, the osa trolls are getting clever and smart in their writing style these days. If you can read between the lines, what Eli is wanting you to do is show up at your org, bring all of your disagreements to the table and find a peaceful resolution. Sure you can try this, and a lot of people have already done this with no result other than a declare or some crazy disconnect with you. The ethics gradient at this point in the game is to withdraw your support. That means stop giving money, stop giving them stats (you show up and ask for a comm cycle, that is a stat). If you want to communicate start talking to all of your SCN friends who are not staff and start talking publicly.
Eli go back to saving the orgs, and holding hands with OSA, MAA’s and any other terminals you find you can communicate with. All the more power to you! THE CHURCH IS DEAD…..
Thanks Brother, as always! Right on.
posted for a friend:There is another side to the confidentillity issue. What I mean is when the org’s ‘keep quiet’ about crimes committed by their public as use confidentiality as a defense. I know a public who had an extreme ethics sit. He went to the org and tried to handle it. OSA became involved as it was really a felony and they tried to get him to just do conditions. Overcome with the grief of what he had done, he went to the police and confessed. OSA immediately issued a Type B declare on him. He did a couple years in prison and tried to get back on lines afterward. OSA and IJC became involved and when it looked like he was about to be okayed for service, he was given an SP declare. I heard that he was less than compliant in their demands and I guess it’s too bad this was before the Basics evolution where he could have gained absolution by donating.
Barney,
I wasn’t referring to Steve Crivello in particular.
Was he the guy involved with MUFON who was working for the CIA while on staff in Denver org or something like that or is this some other cat?
I’m sorry. I re-read your comment. It is not that they are recruiting lobotomy cases, it is that they are teaching them DM’s bullshit trumps LRH policy and tech.
RJ,
You’re right about FPRD, due to spell check lacking on wordpress I failed to mention the word RPF FPRD Program requirements. That is where NAY RFAC was used. Logan’s ref of the 1982 ref re: Non Actionable KR’s settles the deal. Another case of of further black Dianetics. Have a distinct feeling we know one another.
I totally agree Amy.
What they did to you was so WRONG !
Yeah it’s called creating opponents and it’s part of a games condition.
WW,
It’s Jeanie Bolgstad/ AKA prior Franks, but I get your drift, and thanks. Last I heard she was the ED Cincy.
A great being indeed.
I totally agree.
O.O.
Yes, you duplicated me perfectly. I think there are some serious numbers.
LOL, yes they tore the Beerlin wall down that way.
And yes, I have been doing this for 10 years and yes, things are changing very slowly and only on a local level as far as more people that I know are writing things up. I don’t think what we’ve been doing has any impingement on uplines but our little KSW club is growing. Yes, I formed a KSW club very quietly.
Marty,
Right now, I believe that your blog is one of the most powerful forces that can end the attrocities known to be practised by DM’s hi-jacked Church he calls Scientology.
You yourself have been a great leader, though we did not formally elect you and you did not ask for it. You are great because you have the inside knowledge and experience during the times of the rise of DMs reign of terror. You are great because you have the technical knowledge and policy knowledge. You are great because of your courage to stand against the ugly onslaughts unleashed against you and yours. And you’re great for putting this blog out, and doing a pretty decent job of the extreme challenge of moderating all of us extremes.
But your blog is even greater that you yourself. It creates the opportunity for the multiple viewpoint system. Unbelievably, we have on this blog, existing staff, SO, probably OSA, field and Scn public, and also non-Scientologists and firm believers in other faiths, or ways… Anonymous. All kinds of people. We see different things, we experienced different things and we believe differently. The power of this blog is not because we all believe the same thing, but because we do not.
But we are united. What unites us?
We oppose abuse of people, of families.
We oppose hypocracy.
We stand for free speech.
We stand for true freedom to practise a religion, a philsosphy, a way of life that HELPS others.
We wish to free people that are enslaved, body and mind.
We oppose material gain at the expense of the pain and heartache of others.
Like Mike said after Sam’s post, he wakes up in the morning renewed for the fight. This is a re-kindling of purpose. I don’t remember the exact reference, but something like ‘if you rekindle the failed purpose, the stops will all blow’.
Also, there is one other thing about your blog. I did not realize it until Eli’s post kind of illuminating another effort going on that I’ve been unaware of. It’s maybe a weird way of looking at things, but here goes: One of the LRH references on income was about having three or four different sources of income. Not just looking at one avenue. Well, I’ve always looked at that reference, and maybe it isn’t right, but I’ve applied it a little more broadly than just finance, to say, let’s have three or four ways to plan any strategy.
Maybe this means three or four ways like:
1. Outside the Church, the blogs, websites exposing truth and waking up people in and out of the Church.
2. Individual protester’s resignations and withdrawal of financial and other support.
3. Legal suits both individual and class action that directly punish abusers from the top down by the laws of the land and wide continued exposure in the media so broader public opinion is also brought to bear.
4. Staff members and existing public who keep writing up the KR’s, talking to their other staff, seniors and refusing to give up.
Perhaps one of these forces will finally win, or perhaps all of them cumulatively will take it toll until things come to a head and get cleaned up. Hard to say, but that’s the point. We’re not counting on one of them to do the job, but getting them all going concurrently. Pedal to the metal.
I’m no great strategist. But your blog is helping as a catalyst for all these efforts, I’m sure of that. You may know not what you have really put in motion here until the Church gets the needed roto-rooter and we say, wow, it’s finally been done, the people are free now. We are all free now.
Thanks Sapere,
You speak sooth.
Ml
Robin
No RJ,
Proof is you do not know….
I agree metaqual,
They became what they opposed to a degree.
(Actually Jane Kember was starting to look a lot like J Edgar near the end….
Hmmmm)
The fact is I used to secretly cringe while W/Cling GODs issued by “Jane or Mo” on the GO staff because they became so idiotically bureaucratic and laced with legalize while couching some kind of hidden double meaning.
Much like a Justice Department memo.
O.O., Brilliant post and very heartfelt. I agree with you 100%.
Lucy, (and I believe Marty too) I have to say that I’m not buying this Eli story.
Sorry Eli, if you’re actually on the up and up and I’m just being cynical these days. But there’ s a lot at stake. This DM created cult which used to be our Church, now seems to have the power to destroy (at least temporarily) our families, our livelihoods, and our relationships. This is not something to take lightly.
I’m afraid you lost me right in the beginning when you said you had no idea who Mike Rinder was. Are you kidding me?? You have been on staff for 10 years and you never attended an event where he spoke? Please.
That smacked of OSA to me right away–trying to make less of these guys. I could buy it perhaps on Marty, as he was an exec working more behind the scenes. But Mike was speaking at friggin events. What cave were you hiding in?
Then, to have the audacity to say we should just walk into the Org and express our concerns? Now you insult the intelligence of the members of this blog. Marty is absolutely correct– there is NO WAY you have been writing things up for 10 years and you’re still on post.
Or maybe I’m just like Jim, and fell up from the turnip truck.
P.S. Lucy and Haydn, you guys rock.
RJ
Dis ‘n plesier
Eli, hmmmm….this “very quietly” business of yours doesn’t wash. In a zealotry-buzzed witch-hunting self-righteous environment that is inside the corporate $cio Corp, there simply is no such thing as “very quietly…except for botched OSA attempts at being sneakily clever, but that cat has a bell on its tail. “Very quietly” forming KSW groups??? For 10 years?? Could you explain how that’s working?
And in an honest, direct, openly communicative environ there is no such thing as doing things “very quietly”… We call it like it is.
Eli, What are you doing really? What are you up to?
Eli, Many people have TR3d knowledge reports and outpoints going on inside the walls of the $cio Corp for years, and after being ignored or attacked, realized they were talking to a management that is not on the same page as Scientology.
Read Luis Garcia and Mary Jo Leavitt for starters.
DFB~That really struck a nerve in me. What the hell IS the point of “I’m not auditing you” anyway? If I’m not here to be audited, then WTF am I here for? If you want me to take a look at some situation in my life where I have overts, okay, tell me that and maybe I’ll write them up, go the the examiner and attest to having done so. But what purpose does an HCO Sec check have beyond the initial let me make sure you’re not (fill in the blank) which after about the first hour in the very beginning you’d see I wasn’t.
I’ve had a very interesting change of viewpoint from your comment, along with others re. eligibility…the real simple reasons you’d get an HCO sec check once for this or that qualification along the line.
In the spirit of O.O’s post, here is part of a post I found on another site. It presents another possible avenue of attack. I do believe that DM is vulnerable through the IAS. Here is some information about the disclosure requirements for NPOs (Non-Proift Organizations) in the USA. There are 3 links included for more information. The quote is from the introduction of one of the sites, and I have edited the post for brevity:
“A surprising number of nonprofit organization administrators don’t realize that federal law requires most tax-exempt nonprofit organizations to allow public inspection of their recent federal annual information returns (e.g. IRS Form 990 and Form 990 Schedule A) and their application for tax-exempt status (e.g. IRS Form 1023 or 1024), along with nearly all associated material. Furthermore, the public access requirements have been significantly expanded, requiring that copies of these be provided upon request unless the organization makes these documents widely available. “Widely available” currently means publication of these documents on the World Wide Web in an acceptable format.
The new rules promise a critical change in the accountability of public charities and other tax-exempt organizations to the U.S. tax-payers, who are ultimately supposed to benefit from the preferential tax treatment given to exempt organizations. Tax-exempt organizations will generally be required to make easily available to the public many details of their finances and operations that may not be included in their regular annual reports.
The federal annual information returns and application for tax-exempt status are not substitutes for an annual report or an accounting audit, as they were primarily devised only to aid the IRS in determining if an organization qualifies for tax exemption. Nevertheless, these documents serve as valuable resources for members of the public who wish to examine a nonprofit organization’s financial and operational activities, by demanding a relatively consistent structure to the presentation of certain critical information, and by instituting a legal requirement for accurate financial data that is publicly available. A fairly clear picture of an organization’s finances and operations should be rendered by its IRS returns and application for exempt status together with an annual report and the financial statements usually accompanying it.”
OK, who has ever seen an Annual Report sent out by the IAS? Who has ever thought to ask for one? Non-profit organization accountability is specified by law.
Investment organizations like TIAA-CREF or Credit Unions automatically send out annual information to their participants.
Fundraising organizations for any cause are required to keep records and make them available to anyone who asks.
You can do “due diligence’ on any organization you are even thinking about contributing to, even before you give them a cent.
Have you ever seen an IAS Annual Statement? Do you know of anyone who has? Do you even know of anyone who asked for one? Were they provided with one by the IAS? What was the IAS response?
Here are the top 3 Google results for “Disclosure requirements for NPOs”
1. NPO Public Disclosure Regulations Site
NPO Public Disclosure Site … Furthermore, the public access requirements have been significantly expanded, requiring that copies of these be provided upon …
http://www.muridae.com/publicaccess/ – Cached – Similar
2. FAQs About the Exempt Organization Public Disclosure Requirements
Sep 10, 2010 … Charities & Non-Profits Topics … In general, what public disclosure requirements apply to tax-exempt organizations? …
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article…=96430,00.html – Cached – Similar
3. Exempt Organization Public Disclosure Requirements
In general, exempt organizations must make available for public inspection certain annual returns and applications for exemption, and must provide copies of …
http://www.nonprofitexpert.com/disclosure.htm – Cached – Similar
I believe the cult management is very vulnerable through the IAS, and possibly the other “donation” programs, but the IAS is key. Because, it is the oldest and most likely to be provable a scam and a fraud. Probably 90% of the money the IAS has raised since 1984 has not been used for the programs they promised us they would use it for.
If every interested party (and that can be anyone, donor/member or not, as well as anyone who donated), were to demand annual reports going back to 1985 from the IAS, and also file complaints of even the suspicion of fraud, to governmental agencies, wouldn’t that have considerable impact? And possibly it’s own “viral” effect?
News reports of an investigation into the IAS would unavoidably be seen by currently “in” staff and public.
I wonder though, why is he Davis and not Jastrow? If he is the biological then I hope some of this data gets to him.
Veritas~ “BTW I don’t see you having to come out to the other side or join or unjoin anything. There is really only the tech and its application…or not.”
Excellent point because I am NOT against Scientology or anyone in (well 1 person) but even him I would forgive if he got straight.
We are on the same team as those still “in” the CofM…at least I am.
Eli! Awesome that you can create this effect! We’re all doing it for LRH and the legacy he created.
OTDT~Amazing amount of truth there! Exactly! Exactly! Exactly! What else can I say?!
Grasshopper~I’d have been cussing up a storm too! WoW! What idiot told the guy this ridiculous info via M-1 to begin with! Or did he go into your folder and find out this fantastic find himself! What a WRONG indication!
LDW~Awesome on the NED auditor!!!
Eli,
Want to do something effective? Read my post below about the NPO disclosure requirements imposed on them by law, and write to the IAS asking for some Annual Reports from the last few years as well as other supporting documentation as delineated on the sites linked below.
You are entitled to this information.
Let us know how the IAS responds.
Wow !
You really think you are smart ? And people will follow you ?
Give some real facts and experiences !
Amy,
Bullseye!!!! Lasersharp.
Fidelio
Jim~ 😆 So true.
As an aside, I took pride in my super creative “murder routine” bits with my PCs. Without fail, they’d say O M G NOOOOOOOO, NOT THAT BAD! 😆
Spot on…………..I couldn’t agree more.
Just realize you are dealing with a criminally insane group at this point,
to greater and lesser degrees—certainly run by one, and due to peer pressure, often the
inmates begin acting as he (Davey boy) does.
Writing up anything to them is as effective as writing to the KKK about how wrong *they* are in their racist actions. I kid you not.
As I’ve said for years: Bail while you still can.
My best,
Tory/Magoo
O.O,
Well said. ALL of these have helped bring us to this point, and here’s the best news: There is N O T H I N G Davey boy can do to stop this snow ball.
I’ve posted to him, for years, “Tick Tock, Tick Tock, Time is on *our* side.
And guess what? It is!! 🙂
Re the Priest/Penitent Privilege…I also was “in” when that came about. As I recall, it was mostly pushed for auditing folders. I was a Security Checker at the time, and it was very distinct that you had to say, “I’m not auditing you”–thus the “Auditor’s Code” didn’t apply, and Sec Checkers were expected to write up “overts” they felt the PC needed to “handle in Ethics”.
(For any untrained people reading this….with the Auditor’s Code, it says:
“I promise never to discuss a pc’s cases, in or out of session”. However, with Security Checking (“I’m not auditing you”) –that did NOT apply, and thus one could send info to “Ethics” and it could be discussed, as that wasn’t an auditing session. However, I guess they tried to slip it in, covering both, in 85?
Interesting to read in 85 it came out that this was to be applied to both PC and Ethics folders. I do not recall that to be true, for the Ethics Folders, ever. Thank you Tommy Davis for blowing it one more time! Yes, do come on out–the water is just fine 🙂
And also, thanks to Marc and Claire–and all of you here! This is just getting better and better, day by day. 🙂
Oh well, I guess Tommy is going to have to follow what is right and then make his own way in the world.
He’ll be much better off in the long run if the does the right thing, ends up out on his own broke, then makes a life for himself.
If his family and friends only love him if he toes the line and does what is wrong, then they are not really his family and friends.
He won’t be losing his family and friends, he’ll be losing an illusion.
Thanks for sharing Joe.
Understood.
Especially on the BETRAYAL.
This is how far off the rails it is.
Lucy,
perfectly spotted. I was just about to write something to that end, when I saw your comment….. Eli sucks. Yuk.
Fidelio
Eli: No – the Berlin Wall was not torn down from the inside …
East Berliners started to stream through Hungary in such massive numbers that it became impossible for the Stasi to hold them back.
THEN the wall was torn down. People from all over the world flew there to tear it down AFTER it was obvious there would be no tanks killing protestors or freedom lovers. (unlike the Hungarian revolution of 1956 when protestors were mowed down)
It was from the outside, as it were, that change occurred – then the wall came down.
Had there not been this pressure FROM THE OUTSIDE of East Berliners claiming their freedom — the wall wouldn’t have come down.
Instead the few who would have tried to TEAR it down — would have been shot. As they had been for decades.
Just like the current dm regime.
Your best shot at freedom is to leave. Walk away slowly, don’t look back.
Take a quiet long vacation with family. Let the dust settle. Once you are really OUT OF THE BOX, you won’t even think you can correct from the inside.
Just ain’t gonna happen. Impossible.
If you can’t do this for some reason — fear of losing family, which is a valid fear because you might — then figure out HOW you can leave.
Mind control is tricky. You think you are free and you are in a box.
ONLY OUTSIDE OF THE BOX can you start to think for yourself. And I think it takes a long time of personal soul searching/deprogramming to be fully free of a culture of thought-stopping.
Best of luck to you.
It’s a great deal harder AND easier than you think. But you can’t have your cake AND eat it too. Cake inside, eating inside. Nope – not possible.
WH
Actually, Slatkin was running low on funds and was panicking. He sued a Scn’er in desperation to seize part of a business he didn’t have a legal interest in. He did this “out of the blue” without communicating with the org/IJC and was reported ALL the way up the lines. NO action was taken by the church. Normally this type of out ethics would have earned a declare. WISE was up to their elbows in his out ethics.
Erwin Croughs — You stated: “If Davey wants to blackmail me he could try but my crimes would be out then, so after that he has no power other than trying to make me look bad and everybody knows how effective that is; this whole site is full of people that prove it to be extremely counter productive. ” Quite astute … Hallelujah!
You make a lot of assumptions about people and you sling a lot of accusations while seemingly sitting on a little pedestal.
You don’t know what watch I was or am on. It wasn’t my job to take out DM – so not a failure of mine.
I am not shifting the blame, nor am I the one shifting a blog about COS violating session confidentiality to something along the lines of defending, justifying and attacking.
I too am well familiar with folks in the GO/OSA – as friends and co-workers. Of course they weren’t and aren’t all evil. You’ve made a point of separating Mike Rinder from the “evil go/osa”. I concur. (I know Mike and worked with him at a time.)
You claim that you knew what some of the GO was up to, but didn’t participate in it. That’s contrary facts. To know and do nothing is an overt of omission and IS participation.
BTW – your reference to me as “dear vic” is condescending. I don’t think “Moving On Up a Little Higher” means climbing on a high-horse.
Sheeesh
Hey WindWalker — I know of someone who had an eligibility sec check done “FPRD style.” Would have been done in the late 90’s. Any reference on this or was it just a temporary application? Thanks! Hallelujah
Joe Howard — You state: “Marty’s blog is somewhat of the daily news for Scientology, staff, public, independents and execs.” This is wonderful … Hallelujah!
Nou is daar twee van ons wat die taal kan praat
🙂
This tape had a very prominent position on the OEC Course back in 95.
Interesting that DM doesn’t turn out OEC grads anymore, based on one pretext or another, some concocted BS about the volumes not being in the right sequence or some such lies.
Saupere Aude — “Just come into present time and see there is no war other than one invented. We are all individuals stuck on planet earth, surrounded by the same insanities, and as individuals we can better conditions with the true application of the tech. ” Really nice conclusion. OK … Hallelujah!
Tara,
One of the the greatest pleasures I have is helping a being confront these ‘unconfrontables’, steering them along and when they get to it, with the auditing cycle in place and this facsimile as-ising before us, knowing that it is GONE.
I experienced that very early on. A ‘sec check’ that unleashed a torrent of stuff. My poor auditor was looking for a quick clean-up and once that first one was out, the rest that were backed up behind it tumbled forth.
The auditing cycle was in, the Code applied and my life was NEVER the same. GONE.
That’s the heart of this suppression that this article is touching. It attacks the most fundamental aspects of auditing. It is an effort to block as-isness. It is an attempt to keep this aberration in play. It is the effort of a suppressive to restim only, not destim.
My pc folder, my ethics folder, is full of the aberration I let go. If DM wants to hang on to it, well, he’s an idiot as well as suppressive.
Hell, if you read it back to me I wouldn’t even recognize it, it isn’t me.
Kind of like the old “OOD’s”.
This subject goes way beyond illegal violations of priest-penitent privilege. It’s actually a slave based protection racket on a level that would have made Al Capone or Hoover proud because Miscavige is both the threat and the “saviour”.
Scientologists confess all manner of things from their very first contact with the subject. The introductory course Personal Values and Integrity has a confessional write up as its final exercise which brings great relief to new Scientoligists. Then of course there is general auditing, Grade II, confessionals, ethics interviews, you name it, all meant to be utterly confidential.
There is not one Scientologist exempt from this; all have potentially damaging material held by Miscavige, to one degree or another.
And Miscavige’s message in his Freedom Mags and elsewhere is very clear. Stick with me and keep paying and you are safe, I will protect you. But you’ve got to keep paying. Step out of line; go against my whims and any dirty little secrets I hold of yours will be used against you.
Now, LRH says that you know you’ve made it case-wise when you are no longer bothered about what people may say about you (sorry for the paraphrase) so this doesn’t work on absolutely everyone but of course Miscavige’s gross tech alterations and continuous sec checks of OTs serves to pin many at a level where they are still bothered by what Miscavige could do or say about them.
So they keep paying, and keep paying. And every time Miscavige publicly violates the confidences of a detractor, it sends another message to the enslaved.
And this racket has become rampant with the C of M. It’s used by Ethics Officers and it’s even used by WISE on non Scientologists. I met a professional person not long ago who was not a Scientologist but who had gotten caught up with WISE and paid them many tens of thousands of dollars for basic courses he otherwise could have done for a few hundred bucks. We are talking a great deal more than $50,000 here. He had grave concerns about the money grabbing tactics of WISE and the C of M but dare not pull away even though WISE were not helping him with his business in the least. Things he said to me indicated clearly that his concern was in the area of his overts. For now he’ll contect himself with reading Marty’s blog.
So there’s another Mechanism of Miscavige – protection racket.
On the Eli story – the initial comment sounded good, the rest has an OSA stench to it.
Pertinent to the topic discussed: What proper use and improper abuse of Ethics creates, by LRH, taken from a single Policy: THE ETHICS OFFICER, HIS CHARACTER
“A safe environment is a productive environment. An unsafe environment is an empty hall.” (see idle morgues)
“He [the Ethics Officer] makes things go wrong [regarding a real SP], hurts people, oppresses. Around him all the right actions vanish and the wrong actions appear. Now because he or she can make others go PTS, then THEY make mistakes. So you get a whole group making things go wrong.”
“… an uninformed E/O who thinks he is a sort of KGB-Local cop-FBI-Scotland Yard sure has missed the point.” (These days OSA seems to believe it is the Office of Special Agents)
“The criminal, the SP (same thing) is TRYING TO GET EVEN WITH PEOPLE. That’s his common denominator. He does it by covert omissions or overt violence. It all amounts to the same thing.” (Anybody need some mass on this? Well, this whole blog and thread is full of it.)
“An E/O can be used by an SP (with false reports or stupid orders) to needle and hurt a group. An E/O can be paralyzed when seniors will not let him do his job either because they don’t understand it or because they are suppressive. The stats tell which one.”
A few web-stats in between for this blog: Unique Visitors – October: 16,787 – that is 3,000 more than in September. Visits to this blog – October: 71,110 (almost as many visits as scientology.org has: 85,981 – with at least 30% paid-for traffic). Check out compete.com for more data.
“An E/O should never discuss staff members who are merely under investigation or act in a way to 3rd party people.”
“An E/O should act like a shepherd not a wolf.”
“An E/O is only trying to make a safe environment in which staff members can work happily and good service is being given to the public.”
And a few select parts of the LRH Policy called HOW TO PREVENT AN ETHICS OFFICER FROM DOING HIS JOB that describes the “dark” side of or the misuse of the Ethics Officer (and thus ethics):
Seen any of those below?
“Ordering the Ethics Officer to assign someone a stated condition and then adding that the Ethics Officer will be assigned that condition if he doesn’t make it stick.”
“Violating Ethics Policies and telling the Ethics Officer that it doesn’t apply here. E.g., Senior violates justice policy in handling of an individual then tells Ethics Officer not to worry as the policy doesn’t apply to Joe Smith who has a bad record anyway.” (and so we get a Freakdumb Mag etc.)
“Ordering the Ethics Officer to do an investigation, but telling him what he must find and what conditions must be assigned to whom, before the investigation has even started.” (How many declared people “knew/felt/suspected” what the intended outcome of their “investigation/Com Ev” etc. was? I know/felt it from the word go.)
Put everything in policy upside down and you have the Black Goldenrod Age of Ethics. It’s an UNDERSTOOD (even without LRH policy and the SPD on this post) that a church/priest/counselor keeps confidential what you tell him/her. To do as is done today is black Dianetics (ethics) and actually is a betrayal (fraud) on the parishioner.
wh,
A ridge has two sides. Both have to be unmocked. Both sides of that creation have to cease creating. Both sides mock up both sides.
I think it possible that ‘Eli’ is a sincere troll. The name picked is a clue. He’s posting what on the surface appears to be reasonable. Work within the group to effect change gradiently holding a position high on the scale and persisting on a given course. That makes sense. Especially if one is convinced the Offenses and Penalties demand this and that ‘outside’ is not permitted. A cursory reading, heck, even a better than cursory reading of various LRH policies would strongly suggest his viewpoint.
I did exactly that, persisted on church lines and exhausted every single avenue within. I even tried creative avenues like writing to Moxon, Lenske and others. I tried every Tone I could think to work those lines. I DID A-H (the expanded version extant with the IJC of A-E).
I did this because THAT is what is in those policies. Also what is in those policies are what one does when those avenues have been exhausted. That takes more than a good-cursory look to see.
Eli (Lilly) is putting forth what he’s putting forth here to provide for those still on lines, or on the fence, an alternative to the independent field as it is arisen. This is a ‘reasonable’ approach, that keeps it all ‘in house’ and ‘on policy’ ( a few selected ones) and that’s better than airing the dirty laundry or posing a public threat to the CofS as a 3D.
The responses here will be taken to the OSA sites, published in various materials like Freedom, and put out to prove the independent field is all about rabid destruction of Scientology.
This will keep the ridge persisting of course.
My invitation to ‘Eli’? I’ve proffered it to each OSA terminal that has written – apply the PL on How To Handle Black Propaganda – and parley, sincerely. No parley? The rest of that reference applies:
“Such people are often SANCTIMONIOUS hypocrites. They are usually arrogant and will not parley (have conferences with a foe). They appear so terribly sure they are RIGHT that it fairly shakes one’s confidence that they could ever do anything wrong.
“Thus the black propagandist is not detectable as such in many cases. The lordly institution, the lofty society, the glittering country are far, far above such a nasty psychotic trick as a studied, financed, expertly run campaign of vicious lies.
“Thus they are believed. Or their servants are believed. And their campaigns can be very effective.”
Mr. Lilly, write to me. No parley, no trustey.
And, if you are a troll, you are too persisting in putting up this ridge. Those of us who are here are indeed taking responsibility for both sides. That’s ACTUAL Scientology, bra’.
Insightful and intelligent analysis Haydn. You summed it up perfectly.
Tory and Marty , I second that!
Eli,
Forget my equivocal post below about you possibly being on the up and up. I have just re-read your post.
So…let me get this straight…
You’re saying that any of the guys out in the field who have spotted the fact that there is a dictator in charge, and no one left who isn’t PTS to him who could do anything about it, and thus no reason to write a KR, are just a bunch of whiny PCs?
I should stop bitching and moaning and grow a pair?
How about this, you “grow a pair” and walk into that DSA’s office — the one you “BLASTED, verbally, big time” (and didn’t even a chit I suppose?) and tell him that you have been posting on Marty’s blog. Then come tell us all how that went.
And while I really do appreciate the attempt to sincerely indicate my BPC “the problem isn’t this or that or the Ideal Orgs, or the IAS, etc. Too late on the chain and so you are grinding and YOUR TA is stuck and that’s why you’ve given up” Well, gee, that somehow didn’t handle me. I think I’m gonna continue whining and moaning for a while longer.
Buy hey, if I join your Super Secret KSW Club, do I get a pair of Mickey Mouse ears? Or a t-shirt that says “I’m With Stupid”?
LOL!
Valkov,
Good show! Jolly good!
“Public session info was even discussed with reges, for god sake – to enable them to “reg better” . ”
I can confirm this occured at class v level as well.
“E/O should never discuss staff members who are merely under investigation or act in a way to 3rd party people.”’
I Experienced this personally at the FLB.
The Chaplain — THANK YOU!! Hallelujah!!
Magnolia, you go, girl!
Haydn,
Racket = RICO.
One of the requisite offences of which is Mail Fraud. ‘Mail’ includes electronic lines these days. Tommy D: ‘there is no such disconnection’ or the subject of this thread ‘ethics files’ are priveleged and aren’t used publicly against persons.
DM: well, just about anything oozing from Dave is fraudulent. How about at least two blatant forgeries of HCOBs, published, sent to others, via the sundry forms that are legally considered Mail.
Good point MOQ.
The tech of getting off overts and withholds is very valuable. I have had major wins doing so. It is only after they started having me churn through them over and over, trying to find more, that I objected.
If Scientology (the “official” one) really practiced Scientology there would be no reason to use someone’s overt gotten off in a confessional against them. To do this discredits them. If any policy is widely known by the public it will have to be an acceptable one. The public as a whole will not like the idea that their sins can and will be used against them if they ever decide to Leave the cult of misscabbage. To combat the cult from doing this, all you would really have to do is to picket the Idle orgs with posters saying: “This Church will use your sins against you publicly”. That in itself is enough to shut the cult of cabbage down.
Because you know this:
1. dm wants money
2. He gets a lot of it through sec checks
3. he wants to dominate and nullify people.
4. he dos this largely through a perversion of the sec check data
5. The common denominator is that he perverts the o/w tech in many ways. Either by over using it, using it as punishment, gang bang sec checks, threatens with it, blackmails with it.
I just had a cognition! We should work on getting the Kool aid drinkers to see that dm is perverting the o/w tech (this has been hidden from view to a large degree)and they may start to wake up. Take this “tech” away from the great perverter and his days are numbered.
Amy was never out 2-d. That is the laughable part. She was and is one of the most ethical people I have ever met.
That was nice Gary!!
“I’m sure LH information is another source for OSA to gather blackmail, black PR ammunition.”
I am certain of this as they tried to find me by using someone (non Scn)who was only listed in my LH but it backfired, I was given a heads up on it. I sure would be interested in the legal ramifications that Lucy brought up. I don’t think HIPPA applies because one has to have standard HIPPA agreements signed by all staff, although in concept it SHOULD apply. As far as releasing information it is standard corporate policy to immediately terminate anyone who does so because it puts the company at risk for lawsuits.
I see this as a paltry attempt to do damage control. You see, lots of people received the “Letter from Garcia.” Many of them will undoubtedly end up reading this blog. This post by Eli is the pathetic way the church tries to reach the many that have doubts and are lurking. This is OSA casting a net for the “dissafected.” Surely a trap.
Nice Rant! Love the way you cut through the BS and back to the real reason for orgs.
Actually, you get a secret decoder ring that whistles.
Val, Wow my friend. You sure did your homework. Well Done! Sure
sounds like the ‘Church’s’ Achillies heal. Love
Sapere Aude,
I DO so appreciate your audacious knowing.
SA,
Nope, can’t have it both ways Davey. Hey, lawyers for DM, did you know about that old case? Hmmmm?
Luis, that’s a very sharp call.
JM
Jim: I agree. Eli must be a troll. His/her/they/their comments appear helpful but aren’t.
I responded not to keep HIS/her etc. comments alive but to correct his utterly false statement about the Berlin Wall.
Which I’m sure to is being used within dms walls.
To me, it’s important to take what a troll might say or for that matter anyone else and IF I personally have data which differs from what is started AS A FACT – to at least, voice my stated difference.
Which perhaps is what you are doing with your answer to me. Making SURE that others reading this are aware that Eli is just a front.
This — fix from the inside must be a current mantra — completely and utterly impossible.
WH
How sad. Your friend obviously wanted to do the right thing and should have been helped by Scientology, even if he had to go the Criminon route. I hope there is a field auditor out there willing to pick him up if he is still interested. He needs the spiritual release that can be gotten from tech application.
Eli=Lie?
You should have stopped after your first posting. You sound like that OTVIII guy who was here before.
I’m with you Samuel.
When I first read Eli’s comment about being on staff and that he was going to fight it internally, I thought is this guy that dumb? Then I read all the kudos to him and I backed off. I read another of his posts here and it does stink of OSA. There is a definite wavelength to an OSA post. It has a slight syrupy taste co-mingled with I am a bad ass and also a touch of propitiation. When I tried to “talk” to them at Flag about what I had observed my own NOTS Auditor said “YOU HAVE A MAJOR OUT-ETHICS SITUATION!!” This was form Paul Kovall who did numerous intensive on me. The MAA’s at Flag are just robots pretty much so who in the hell are you going to have a comm cycle with Eli? OOOOOoooh ooooh that smell…can you smell that smell??
Violations of the RICO statutes — Racketering Influence Corrupt Organizations ? You are right Jim. Sadly, that just about sums up DM’s “church” these days.
Jim, totally true and I totally understand. When it’s gone it’s truly gone.
I have first hand knowledge of this in a Class V org, and have since heard of same at Flag.
OSA (via Eli),
Here’s an object lesson in some of the Factors, related to these posts by Eli, the Letter from Garcia assumed as the precipitator thingie that prompted them.
Admiration is the particle that both puts space there and puts an end to things. How? Well, you’ve got your dichotomies. Good/bad say, as one for the purposes of this expose. One extends out admiration and they’ve got space. Too much admiration and they as-is whatever it is they’ve put out. Enter in the other pole of the two-terminal universe, ‘ucky’. As in ‘no-admiration’. With this two pole proposition you’ve got persistence. Time itself, persistence that is, depends on a lie. A lie is a second thing, denying the first thing, with the first thing still there and that’s the two terminals necessary for persistence.
OK, case in point. OSA sites are rife with all the ‘can’t be admirededs’ (a coined term for this comment). That’s all you fellas prattle on about. Indeed, you hold up the independents as the most ‘unadmirable’ things to come down the pike. There’s enough admiration to put them up there as something, that is to make that space with you fellas as viewpoints, extending the independents in images as dimension. But, acting along the line of the Factors, there is insufficient admiration to cause a cessation. You’ve got on the other half of the bit of admiration you manage to make the space, the ‘ucky’, and so gain for yourselves a persistence of that which is not fully admired.
Independent Scientologists are not admired, from your point of view, and you got something there, that YOU create, that is not admired (aside from the amount of admiration particle it takes to create the space in the first place) and it persists. In fact, the more you puff up these websites and add more and more sock-puppet comments, the more persistence you get. See?
Now, let’s take this blog and similar ones. What are they doing right that you aren’t? Well, they are breathing space into the various 3D engrams. In other words, an engram is a collapsed space. Breathe space into it, by looking at it and extending out admiration enough to put it there and continue that admiration until it’s gone. As-ised.
All the ‘ucky’ is put up on this blog. Even your posts. It’s a trial at times, to admire that ‘ucky’, but with all the various viewpoints posting here, there is sufficient admiration to extinguish the dichotomies and gain as-isness.
From one viewpoint ‘good’ is ‘bad’. From another, it’s the complete opposite. (That’s one of the ‘secrets’ to persistence of this agreed upon universe.) Admiration is scarce, for good ‘reason’ – too much and poof – gone. Whatever it is, it’ll be gone.
We intend the unadmired be gone. That’s what you see here. All that ‘ucky’, with space breathed into it and enough look to admire it and cease its existence.
You, under DM’s complete inability to as-is, by creating unadmired ‘us’ only and nothing else but, CREATE that which you oppose, except its unwitting.
How to get rid of ‘us’? Tell the truth, observe the truth, and any lies will go ‘poof’. But you must breathe space into those engrams. Breathe. That’s what ‘spirit’ means.
WH,
I put that in response to yours because you brought up an important point on ‘walls’. They are ‘ridges’ after all. The Berlin Wall was created and taken down by both sides.
Eli’s comments seem to me to be ignoring the ‘wall’ and who is creating what. Perhaps the comment I made below will help me clarify.
WH — You are spot on.
When Tom Shuster, Sheila Gaiman and her sister were dispatched to “confront me” in the UK after the BBC show, this was their mantra. “Why don’t you do the on-policy thing and handle within the Church? Why go to the media? You know that is a Suppressive Act.” (Interesting that once again, DM sent public — methinks it is trying to reduce liability after Jenny Linson and Co were recorded by the BBC in their “confrontation” because it is kind of hard to deny involvement when its “D/CO CMO Int” and “ED Int”). Of course, they dont know what to say when you tell them “I slept on an office floor eating slop for a year in a barred and guarded building. When you have experienced that you can tell me how to go about reforming the abuses.” It is also a line I have heard used by the Three Stooges (Sutter/Stahli/Pouw).
Another one is “Well, not everything is perfect, but we are working on it and there isn’t anything better somewhere else and the good outweighs the bad.” And not ONE SINGLE thing has been reformed under the watchful microscope of Dear Leader OTHER than those things that have been exposed in the media or on the internet (canceling Freeloader bills, allowing family members to visit, not publishing declares).
OT VIII – ELI = Dave Miscaviage! I just wish he would really come out of the closet and tell us what he really thinks. He talks tough, and says he grows a pair, but really he is a little 14 year old kid hiding in the closet reading Marty’s blog, scared shitless that his world is coming apart around him. He knows that it is only a matter of time before those at INT base will confront him and throw him overboard!
Mike — COMPLETELY agree. A “friend” who still considers she’s IN but hasn’t and won’t do any services since ’93 – is always saying — must be reformed from within. I believe in LRH tech and he says to write KRs. (which of course, she doesn’t dare).
Her FSM comes around from time and time, telling her glowing OT VII successes … glossing over the $150,000 price tag to redo OT VIII, VII, basics, donors etc. And repeating the other mantra — we’re not perfect but find another group that is better.
What STRANGE logic.
Glad you are continuing to speak out and continue to keep dm et al quaking.
It’s just not possible to reform maggot infested meat or anything infested with maggots (milk, OSA, Idel Orgs etc). Can’t get close enough to the meat to not yourself get full of them.
Better to throw the meat away. Maggots are incredibly fast. You’d be amazed.
Much nicer out here in the sunshine with time to ponder, reflect and breathe.
Maggot free.
WH
WW,
Tearing down the wall was merely a symbolic gesture.
Much of the changes that allowed the wall to fall came from within.
You should actually should actually study history:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RB56YU/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000RH0E2U&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1BZ7Z6Y4M06B5FD1S8WE
Mike,
Your story is from PT. It is a fact, incontrovertible, that so long as David Miscavige remains as the Infallible Pope of Scientology, it will be impossible to deal with these issues internally. Utterly, categorically and undeniably IMPOSSIBLE.
What does LRH say to do in such a case? Find a safe point, a nine foot high board fence and come down with lead boots.
What does he say to do when the Church of Scientology is not ‘coterminal’ with the religion of Scientology? Take care of business. Policy isn’t a stop, and if it is, it isn’t policy.
Eli, nice try. Any churchie’s who follow your advice will be targeted for Roll Backs and Sec Checks, DM style. And, of course, will have to disconnect from (the truth that is offered here on) this blog.
Cute, but no cigar.
Gee let me see Barney you asked me:
“Are you referring to Steve Crivello?”
Claiming it was:
“a wild and wierd situation.”
So I took a stab at it and answered with the following:
“I wasn’t referring to Steve Crivello in particular.
Was he the guy involved with MUFON who was working for the CIA while on staff in Denver org or something like that or is this some other cat?”
So as you can see I was just guessing.
So why don’t you have the f*cking decency to answer the f*cking question so we all know what the f*ck you’re talking about?
As in the Comm Formula.
Instead making some 1.1 comment.
Theo
If I may be so bold as to break in on this comm to Jim.
I am pretty sure you are aware of the traits of an SP and his “think”.
One thing that came up a few days ago on an earlier thread was Marty stating that “DAVID MISCAVIGE HATES LRH.” This has blown a lot of charge for some and seems to open the door to more understanding of David Miscavige and his actions.
I personally am not much into the “conspiracy theory” as regards outside agencies “controlling” David Miscavige.
However I do not believe David Miscavige ” did this all by himself”, but I am still tending towards the idea that he was the “source” of his actions. ( more accurately his case) In my mind there is no question that he is probably playing into the hands of some who would see the church and the very philosophy of Scientology totally destroyed. He doesn’t seem to need their help, he is doing a fine job at wreaking total havoc himself.
Also, NO, David Miscavige could not possibly do and have done all that he has to destroy Scientology all by himself. If he had no support from any source he would simply be a raving SP loony. Problem is that he has somehow gotten others to “support” his insanities.
“Aiding and abetting” holds almost as much weight in a court of law as the main perpetrator of a crime. Perhaps because the perpetrator would not have been able to commit the crime entirely on his own.
Those “aiding and abetting” David Miscavige would do well to recognize that they will not be “blameless” when David Miscavige goes down for his criminal and SP activities.
Theo, I suspect that, except on the “conspiracy theory” aspect we likely agree.
WW
Bravo Valkov,
I’ve been saying for years that if you get rid of the IAS and its elitist stuffed tuxedos and swollen evening gowns.
You get rid of Miscavige.
Since this is his main source of funding.
I also though that there should at least be a prospectus on their various programs they claim to be sponsoring if not a full financial disclosure on how the money is spent on these things.
So the members can see how their money is being spent.
Anyway good on you for getting the legal dox backing this.
Very nice analysis, Valkov. Much has been said on this blog and others about the Church’s tax exempt status being in jeopardy.
I’m afraid, though, that revocation of tax exempt status won’t happen anytime soon, regardless of the Church’s egregious violations in this area.
Everything, especially in government is subject to politics. Imagine being the person who recommends revocation of the Church’s status – the likely response would be “are you crazy? They’ll just start suing us again!”
BBSox
A short reminder: If “eli” is OSA—each post talking to “eli” is considered a “win” for OSA. Their #1 product, here on the Net, IS “distraction off of Scientology” (anything they don’t want known).
# 2 goal is get the critics of C of $ to fight amongst each other—again, more distraction. This is a VERY important topic—-more info, not less, please.
(Next OSA comment, whether actually from an Op or from someone who bought their program they’ve been running for 10 years to people, shall be: “Tory thinks everyone is OSA”. FTR: No, I do not…but *I* do know their game, and I have no problem reminding others about it).
Fact: The organization known as the “church” of $cientology has used my own personal info to twist facts to make me look far worse than I am. Your Fair Game, as I’ve told you since way back when I was “in”, WILL be the end of your game, Davey boy and gang of OSA floor mats. That stands true, today. As I’ve asked many times: Is this ~honestly~ what you got into Scientology to do? This is it?
My best to all here ~~
Tory/Magoo!
Tory, email me at howdoesitfeel@hushmail.com when you have an opportunity.
PS: A funny note re “David Miscavige”—way back when I made 4,000 posts in 4 weeks (June/July of 2000) I was doing this all by myself–not with OSA, not with C of $—just me, wanting to know what these critics could possibly know?
A ton of them decided, because “Magoo” had made SO many posts, I must be David Miscavige OR “Flag” (as I went to bed around 4 am LA time, they figured 7 am Flag Muster!).
What a shock to find out it was just me, in my dining room, without the knife. (“Clue” reference 🙂 LOL~
Eli – whistling in the dark over a graveyard….
Fidelio
Done…………why do I feel like I’ve been called into the Principle’s office?
DOH!~
🙂
T
Hallelujah
I personally have no references on FPRD being run “sec check style” other than the repeated stories of such on this blog. At this time in the “church of Scientology” it seems to be routine.
WW
Vic,
Oh plauleeeze.
Stop it with the self righteous indignation.
You know as well as I do.
That if some senior wanted you to do something that was off the wall f*cking crazy you didn’t have many options other than refuse to do it per the HCOPL ‘Orders Illegal and Cross’ and maybe query it per HCOPL ‘Orders Query of’ if they still continue to get in your face and keep your stats up per the HCOPL ‘Ethics Protection’ and hoped they moved on to some other “clay pigeon”.
Writing a KR in that mutual out ethics scene would have been useless.
Calling the cops or going to the press would have gotten you a nice swift declare and expulsion!
Besides who trusted the Government or the press to do the right thing anyway.
Since the FBI’s job under COINTELPRO was using paid “informants” or more accurately agents provocateurs to incite individuals in various organizations on their hit list which included the Church of Scientology to commit illegal acts!
So much for the “law and order” aspect.
Never mind the press the vaunted “fourth estate” that might as well have been called “Pravda” at the time!
Sure it would have been nice if we had a Justice Department that actually believed in *justice* and an independent press that was actually *independent* at the time.
But we didn’t!
Unless you were being naive.
Never mind the false information being forwarded by the State Department that the Apollo was running drugs and guns and was involved in some kind of white slavery operation though the “ex” Nazis at InterPol.
Or how the IC managed to put the kibosh on our legal suit we filed against them under FOIA for “reasons of National Security”!
But I digress…..
So yeah the GO were commiting illegal acts in their desperate and poorly concieved espionage program under GO 1361.
So what were us techies supposed to do?
Violate the Auditors Code clause 22 when they admitted committing crimes against the Holy State?
I was a f*cking auditor not a cop!
It was my f*cking job to make the PC feel safe when they confessed their crimes and not betray his or her confidence in me!
I felt I served a higher purpose than acting as a f*cking stool pigeon for the State!
One that has been part of traditional religion long before the creation of the *IN* Justice Department!
So no I don’t feel I commited any overt of ommission by being a Minister listening to the confessions of my preclear and not acting on them!
In fact I would have rather gone to prison then reveal them!
To me revealing them would have been the bigger overt.
As far as I’m concerned Arnie Maren is a hero for refusing to violate his Auditors Code and going to jail instead!
It’s too bad that the current Church doesn’t seem to consider those confessions sacred any longer and uses them wantonly to assassinate the character of and discredit those they consider “enemy”.
Which is anyone who doesn’t happen to agree with Miscavige and his out tech, off policy and his technical perversions.
Not totally true.
Much of this so called “case data” was derived from R&Gs two forms that the PC or Pre OT fill out before applying for processing.
At AOLA we never gave the regs any case data from the PC or Pre OT’s folders.
The reg was given a Tech Estimate of the hours required to complete his or her program.
Maybe the “Mecca of Technical Deception” did it at the time and some Class IV orgs that were infected by their aberation of using the PC folder to reg with but we applied the HCOPL ‘Selling and Delivering Auditing’.
At least while I was there we did.
That is before the vaunted Sea Org took complete control of Advanced and SH orgs and handed us non-SO auditors our pink slips.
Give up Jimbo,
The *IN*Justice Department is never going to lay a RICO charge on their good “friend” David Miscavige.
He’s doing what they’ve been unable to do for decades and that is unmock the Church.
Now they’re finally succeeding.
So why quit now?
Probably when all the “Ideal Orgs” are all in foreclosure and Int Base is a ghost town they may actually do something about it.
To save themselves from embarrasement or something.
It’s like that old saying:
“Where are the cops when you need them?”
Oh by the way.
Did you know that a pizza arrives faster in South Central than a “Black and White” to the scene of a crime?
Tony,
Okay, Okay!
So some us were played by Eli.
Present company included.
Don’t rub it in big guy.
It’s embarrassing!!!!!!
*blush*
BBSox,
So we should sit back and do nothing?
“The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”
Marty has been at this blog for well over a year.
This blog gets thousands of unique hits now. The ESMB forum has over 2,400 members. Then there are the Anons and WWP as well as other blogs and forums.
If, say, IAS administrations receives 3,000+,or 4,000+, or more, requests for an Annual Report and supporting dox, and if the relevant Federal agencies receive over 3,000+ or4,000+ reports of possible fraud by the IAS, do you think that will not impinge?
And if all these people also wrote to the IAS demanding their donations be returned because “Where’s the beef? I don’t think the IAS has followed through on the promised campaigns. It has taken my money and has failed to deliver anything as promised and the PR is all lies I don’t see any effects in society, and I want my money back suckas, I am reporting your sorry asses to the Feds and State AGs etc etc”
Have you received solicitations for donations from the IAS? Perhaps that could be considered mail fraud? Worth considering, especially if it was received unsolicited by you. It’s basically “spam”.
This is politics. The problem today is apathy. Many people don’t vote. They don’t take action. They don’t go to city council meetings. There is a lot of Internet fraud, but most people don’t bother reporting it when they get taken. Apathy. No action. In fact, it could be a “no action after the fact of action” situation.
If you contributed to the IAS and now realize you were contributing to a scam which was supporting an SP dictator, what do you need to do now?
What does your heart tell you needs to be done?
“The wrong thing to do is nothing” How about that??
Can you be bothered to write a short letter asking for an Annual Report letter from the supposedly humanitarian organization you gave your money to?
Take action. Do SOMETHING. How hard is it to write a short letter?
Thanks guys!
Sometimes we can’t see the forest for the trees! NPOs are subject to many laws. There are agencies set up to receive complaints and get investigations rolling.
Many times “we the people” simply fail to use the available channels, even though it is our tax monies that put them there and they are there for US to use.
Crooks, whether through Mail Fraud, Internet scams, real estate scams and Ponzis, home improvement scams, or the IAS, whatever, get away with stuff because we don’t ACT when we get taken. The channels are already there, all set up for us to use.
We just need to take action and use them. Hell, anyone can write a letter, even while drinking beer and watching the game or soap opera on the 47 inch flat screen HDTV.
Point taken.
RJ:
I think you misduplicated XOSA’s post and blasted something that he didn’t write.
LOL!! You probably will get a commendation so don’t sweat it girlfriend.
🙂
Tony
Joe look what happened to Eli.
It might make you feel a bit better.
🙂
Lucy you ROCK!! BAM!!
I agree that relief is a wonderful thing. That’s what I get from confessing to my priest, and Jesus never said for him to write down my “overts”. (Or, for that matter, He never said that if I had doubts about my Church, that it was because *I* had “crimes”.)
LOL!!
You a Kha-Khan you got ethics protection bro!
Oops!!!!
You’re right!
Greyhame.
I totally misduped that post!!!!
100000000000000000000000000000000 pardons XOSA I was suffering from a reverse vector coordinated impulse brought on by contact from the Marcabian mother ship.
You know how that goes?
Er….
Sorry….
To Lucy and Magnolia,
I think you guys defrocked Eli nicely. It goes without saying that Marty’s bullshit meter is finely honed.
These OSA guys are doomed hangin out around here. You may sucker us for a few seconds using a bit of nostalgia or somethin. But once you serve up your main course prepare for your little butt whippin.
Eli, I say you are a 58 year old Sea org member who uses a walker. Are you off your beans and rice yet?
Hi Luis.
I liked in your letter when you bull-baited dm that when he saw people looking at him funny he would have to wonder whether or not they knew about him. Obviously this guy has tons of REAL missed withholds.
I cogged on WHY OSA CASTS for the people learning about dm. DM CANNOT STAND NOT KNOWING WHO KNOWS ABOUT HIM. This drives him absolutely CRAZY.. He is crazy, but absolutes are unobtainable. He CAN and WILL get crazier I gaurantee…
Valkov’s info on non-profit requirements is great. Also, I looked up COS on Better Business Bureau for the fun of it, and found very little, which seems bizarre. Got only one COS Ohio listed which BBB says does not comply with their (very stringent) requirements for churches/non-profits. You can fill out a little form on the internet and ask the BBB to begin an inquiry for you – say, how many orgs, groups, missions, CST, FSO, etc are there? If each individual entity got a few BBB investigations going that ought to keep a few folks busy. None of the groups, churches can possibly be in compliance with BBB standards. There are probably others too, I heard there are other non-profits who “rate” non-profits, maybe philanthropy.org or something like that.
Also, on the RICO stuff, for sure mail fraud. Remember one of Tom Cruise famous movies busted those mob lawyers bad guys for – you guesed it – mail fraud. (For sending over-billing through the US mail).
But actually, a very strong legal case would be “undue influence”. The lawyer/client, doctor/patient, priest/parishioner relationship implies a confidential relationship of trust which can be used against the weaker of the relationship in all sorts of ways, like harrassment for money (so you don’t go to hell)…. legal cases have been won and damages awarded. Oh yes.
Yeah, that pretty much happens when IAS, Idle Orgs, and what not, is through with you.
Yes, I remember, you were here before babbling incoherently under another User Name.
Eli,
While you were forming your KSW club quietly did you guys drink warm milk and sing folk songs with each other? Maybe you even listened to the Carpenters… Just like me they long to be …close to you….
Thanks, Tony~! I’m sure it’ll all work out. It just had that funny
feeling, in a good, but curious way. 🙂
Best,
T
OK CharlieD,
Let’s get right to it. Coincidentally, I posted this on The Scientology Forum just recently. The topic of Hubbard’s view of Psychiatry came up. I’ll copy my post over to here.
Please realize that I do not view psychiatry as “the enemy”. My knowledge of it is based on working in psychiatric settings in patient care for many years, as well as quite a bit of reading of non–LRH and non-CCHR sources. For a good overview of the history and practices of psychiatry in north America, I recommend a book titled “Mad in America”. Another well researched book, although not aboutPsychiatry exclusively, speaks to the character and tactics of the American Medical Association through it’s history. This book is titled “The Serpent on the Staff: The Unhealthy Politics of the American MedicalAssociation” by Howard Walinsky and TomBrune, who were two respected medical journalists with theChicago Tribune. Here’s my post from the other site.
quote:
“Your posting assumes throughout that Hubbard was wrong in his assessment of Psychiatry, particularly psychiatry in the English and Germanic-speaking countries. (In the mid-20th century. V.)
How much do you actually know about the history and character of psychiatry in the USA, Canada, and the UK, for example?
Do you have references, “dox”, to prove that Hubbard was wrong? I think you have NONE. ZERO. ZIP. ZILCH.
Why are there literally hundreds of Civil Rights, Advocacy, and Legal Protection groups, mostly composed of Psychiatric Survivors(that’s what they call themselves, and NO, they have nothing to do with CCHR, but are independently created by “consumers” who have experienced the psychiatric systems), all over the world, but particularly in the USA, Canada, and the UK?
Do you actually want to be informed? I don’t believe it, but here – an excerpt from Wikipedia, about MK-ULTRA’s pet psychiatrist Donald Ewen Cameron. He was so admired by his fellow psychiatrists in the USA and Canada, as well as world-wide, that he was elected chief of the American, Canadian, and World Psychiatric Associations – RIGHT IN THE TIME HUBBARD WAS WRITING ABOUT PSYCHIATRY:
(MK-ULTRA)Canadian experiments
The experiments were exported to Canada when the CIA recruited Scottish psychiatrist Donald Ewen Cameron, creator of the “psychic driving” concept, which the CIA found particularly interesting. Cameron had been hoping to correct schizophrenia by erasing existing memories and reprogramming the psyche. He commuted from Albany, New York to Montreal every week to work at the Allan Memorial Institute of McGill University and was paid $69,000 from 1957 to 1964 to carry out MKULTRA experiments there.
In addition to LSD, Cameron also experimented with various paralytic drugs as well as electroconvulsive therapy at thirty to forty times the normal power.
His “driving” experiments consisted of putting subjects into drug-induced coma for weeks at a time (up to three months in one case) while playing tape loops of noise or simple repetitive statements.
His experiments were typically carried out on patients who had entered the institute for minor problems such as anxiety disorders and postpartum depression, many of whom suffered permanently from his actions.[32]
His treatments resulted in victims’ incontinence, amnesia, forgetting how to talk, forgetting their parents, and thinking their interrogators were their parents.[33]
His work was inspired and paralleled by the British psychiatrist William Sargant [34] [35] at St Thomas’ Hospital, London, and Belmont Hospital, Surrey, who was also involved in the Intelligence Services and who experimented extensively on his patients without their consent, causing similar long-term damage.[36]
It was during this era that Cameron became known worldwide as the first chairman of the World Psychiatric Association as well as president of the American and Canadian psychiatric associations.
Quite the bunch of “healers”, eh? And remember, they were “physicians”. Medical doctors who had sworn to the Hippocratic Oath – “First, do no harm”. And Cameron’s admiring fellow psychiatrists world-wide chose him as their ideal leader. The psychiatrists of over 30 Universities in the US and Canada were involved in MK-ULTRA experiments.
I think that says a lot about the level of ethics of the psychiatrists of that time, the mid 20th century. It was all about money and power.
But some people buy hook,line, and sinker psychiatry’s PR about themselves being these great guys who are only trying to help.
But just in case anyone is actually interested in getting some real information, here are a few links you can spend the next few hours reading over these sites. Maybe next time it won’t be so easy to sit over in Sweden and post unsupported opinions about a country and profession on the other side of the Atlantic.
http://www.mindfreedom.org/ray-sandford-minnesota/mental-hea lth-consumer-survivor-network-of-minnesota
http://www.mindfreedom.org/as/act/us/new-york/foil
http://humanrights.change.org/blog/view/is_involuntary_elect roconvulsive_therapy_ever_appropriate
http://www.narpa.org/webdoc2.htm#Links%20to%20other%20sites
PS, If you want more, this is only a drop in the bucket. There are books written by psychiatric industry insiders; tons more links to human rights and patient rights groups; independent studies, etc. Just use Google.
CCHR was actually a johnny-come lately to the scene. Mostly what they (CCHR)did was organize information that was already experienced by others, almost entirely “survivor” victims of psychiatric abuse,experimentation, and injustice in the various countries.
http://www.ect.org/
http://www.ect.org/category/forced-shock/
1st Person Project: http://www.ect.org/1stperson/about.html
http://psychiatrybuster.blogspot.com/2007/06/wendy-funk-ect- survivor-and-author.html
Court case verdict: http://www.peoplewho.org/documents/ctip.ectverdict.htm
“Psychologist Mary E. Shea presented extensive neuropsychological testing proving to the jury’s satisfaction that Ms. Salters suffers dementia due to ECT brain damage.”
Expert for the defense was Charles Kellner of New Jersey, formerly of the Medical University of South Carolina. He testified that giving Ms. Salters’ 13 shocks in 19 days, instead of 26 days as is usual, was not a violation of the American Psychiatric Association guidelines.
However, his assertions that Ms. Salters’ severe suicidality justified the controversial treatment could not be substantiated by the medical records. 82-year-old Max Fink of New York, widely regarded as the “grandfather of shock” and the author of many books and articles on ECT, was scheduled to testify for the defense, but in the end only watched the trial from the courtroom. The defense did not call him as a witness due to incriminating statements made under oath at his deposition.
http://www.healthyplace.com/depression/shocked-ect/ctip-the- committee-for-truth-in-psychiatry-ii/menu-id-1362/
YOUTUBE ECT SURVIVORS TESTIFY: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7383771430158954219 #
LINDA ANDRE BOOK: http://books.google.com/books?id=dVM0O5VKwqYC&printsec=f rontcover&dq=ect+survivors&source=bl&ots=
g2TssIaEhm&sig=xPR9FOvbRrLD_7KioqrPkatxn7I&hl=en& ;ei=ACffTKGXEdmynwe096m_Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&c t=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBDgU#v=
onepage&q=ect%20survivors&f=false
————————————————-
And here’s the link to the relevant thread on Geir’s forum. In case you want to see how this post came about. I edited it here for brevity and relevance.
RJ,
Not having been on the scene, and knowing absolutely nothing about any of the specifics you and Jim are discussing, I feel I am uniquely qualified to comment on what may be a relevant theoretical point.
And that is, according to LRH’s lecture on the Tone Scale and the 8 Dynamics, as a thetan Individuates away from his 8 Dynamics by progressively Not-knowing, he fallsdowntheToneScale, but he continues to create and DO everything he was doing right from the start. BUT, he becomes less and less AWARE that he IS still doing those things. He is still creating his 8 Dynamics and everything happening, it is only his awareness that he is doing so that lessens. He is doing those things, but he doesn’t know he is doing them. He KNOWS all, but he doesn’t know that he knows all.
Thus no matter how stupid DM seems, he is not basically stupid.
“Stupidity is unknownness of consideration”. He is not consciously aware that he knows, but he does know. Thus he is still capable of doing anything he could do before he became “stupid”. He acts “instinctively”, as an animal might act. He is his “AP”, with twisted goals. His “BP” remains at Native State and knows all. His “file clerk” will hand up the solution he wants to have, from anywhere on his track. Like the “no responsibility case” who doesn’t steal anything – “Honest Your honor, I didn’t do it. My hand just reached out and took it.” (Or “pulled the trigger”, or… whatever) “I was driving home and the car just ran over him…” He lacks awareness of being the cause of his own actions, but he basically sure knows how to implant people, how to dodge anything that comes at him, how to subvert and take over an organization, whatever. After all, he has done it thousands of times, maybe millions of times. He knows without knowing, or knowing he knows. He has completely individuated from his dynamics but basically he is still creating them, so the knowingness is still there and is still operating.
I can’t explain it any better than that.
I believe the relevant lecture was released as one of the Classics, titled “Man the Animal & Man the God”. Given by LRH on 28 January 1958.
Having any scientology materials or whatever processing and training he had, only makes DM more dangerous because of his tone level, as he will “instinctively” apply them in a destructive, self-aggrandizing way. The knowingness contained in any incident on his whole track is available and can “act through him”. All the power he ever had as a thetan is also still there. All the implants he has accumulated on his track and all the energy locked up in them is still there, and can be triggered, restimulated, by life events. That may be why he needs that grounding rod he uses. He may be afraid the power he is “channeling” might tear him apart or kill him.
He uses valences automatically. You might as well say valences use him, his body, his person. He’s just riding along as a spectator at best. He is in Hell. He probably restimulates himself to prevent his own total collapse. If his dramatization is broken, he may die very quickly, or go very obviously, babblingly insane.(Yes, I know we already see him that way… :))
So he doesn’t need high school, college, or much else. In fact, many of the most successful people in the world, for good or ill, had little education. He can read and listen. That’s enough.
O.O.,
Good call on the “harassment” issues. That’s another one that ought to be real obvious to us in the USA especially, where a supervisor can lose his job just for looking at a pretty employee the wrong way. We tend to think of it in terms of sexual harassment, but in fact it could be applied to any relationship between people of unequal status and power. And, the power wouldn’t have to be used to coerce sexual favors, but also money, no? The threat of revelation of confidential data in order to coerce compliance is called quite simply, Blackmail, is it not?
This legal area is definitely worth exploring.
O.O.,
Glad you ‘re finding the info useful. It is amazing there are so few complaints to the BBB. I bet there are few complaints to any agency – and there ought to be more. Whatever the reasons for non-filing of complaints in the past, now we have THOUSANDS of people out who could file complaints, and should! And there are many agencies, Federal and in every State, where complaints could be filed. From BBS to AGs to various regulatory agencies.
We’ve been sending our KRs to the wrong place(s)! So ingrained is the attitude of “handling things internally” -to “protect” Scientology, of course.
Our KRs need to be sent to every possible agency and office that could be relevant. Make lots of copies, folks. Santa’s making a list, and he’s checking it twice…. Somebody’s getting a lump of coal for Christmas…. 🙂
I’m a little late with this, but it’s important to say. Tommy Two-Tone, sniffling through bad allergies, once told me I needed to handle a flap. I was perfectly willing to do so – even though I knew I was being made a scapegoat – when he casually threw in to the comm, “We have your folders, you know”. The mafia-like threat was very clear.
That’s the day the Church died for me.
I did a LOT of filing for ethics folders, at all levels of Scn in my tenure from local orgs to Gold to the RPF. I was always trained, told and assumed ethics files to be confidential and always treated them as such. I never thought I had any privilege to the data confined therein and filed any documents as if it was none o’ my beeswax, cause it was NOT & is NOT. Thanks for the reference Marty. I never studied any other on the subject.
Of course, training, telling, assuming & experience turned out to be 2 VERY different things. The little man himself, in practice, disabused me of any pretense at confidentiality & that understanding precipitated my awakening and departure.
Well, as usual when I copy over links, some end up broken by a space. Here are the corrected and hopefully now-working links. If some still break, then the readers will have to look for and remove the extra space that was created when the links were “wrapped” by WP.
http://www.mindfreedom.org/ray-sandford-minnesota/mental-health-consumer-survivor-network-of-minnesota
http://humanrights.change.org/blog/view/is_involuntary_electroconvulsive_therapy_ever_appropriate
1st Person Project: http://www.ect.org/1stperson/about.html
http://psychiatrybuster.blogspot.com/2007/06/wendy-funk-ect-survivor-and-author.html
http://www.healthyplace.com/depression/shocked-ect/ctip-the-committee-for-truth-in-psychiatry-ii/menu-id-1362/
YOUTUBE ECT SURVIVORS TESTIFY: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7383771430158954219#
LINDA ANDRE BOOK: http://books.google.com/books?id=dVM0O5VKwqYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=ect+survivors&source=bl&ots=
g2TssIaEhm&sig=xPR9FOvbRrLD_7KioqrPkatxn7I&hl=en& ;ei=ACffTKGXEdmynwe096m_Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&c t=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBDgU#v=
onepage&q=ect%20survivors&f=false
Here is the link to the thread on Geir’s forum that generated this post:
http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg&th=672&prevloaded=1&S=2eab0cfd76e7d75fef70e231bd119875&start=0
Very interesting, Cat. The oppressors always try to indoctrinate the children thinking they can mold them into their way of thinking.
Great rant, OTDT! So true.
RJ,
The cops have been there all along, the problem is, not enough people have been calling them to report the crimes.
I have no respect for WISE. A complete arbitrary. The interactions I have had with WISE were squirrel.
Q: When OSA began to criminalize parishioners by covertly compiling data from their pc folders, did this result in a very sharp, polarized dived between SO and publics? More specifically, did C of M C/S’ and regges feel free to look at parishioner data in order to have more persuasive/intimidating data for use in regging and meeting stats. My question goes to the central dilemma in Cof M: Were parishioners in search of spiritual truth diverted into crush reg cycles whose product was meeting stats no matter what? I ask because C of M seems to have become oriented towards sales of MEST products around 2000. If DM inner circle had O/W’s on publics, then they would have needed to destroy the spiritual progress of publics in order to create a demand for endless ethic cycles that included purchases and donations as amends. What year do the Independents see as the year in which the wheels came off and CoS became CoS?
/////
Valkov,
As far as I know there are hundreds of people who have filed complaints about the current “Church’s” illegal activities yet no response from the forces of “law & order”.
Much like in LA during the so called “crack epidemic”created in part by various “intelligence assets” who were funding the Contras which is why we called it:
“Contra-Cocaine”
My opinion that the Church serves as a front for covert action and when it no longer serves that purpose they’ll shut it down.
I agree with the guy in the famous Pro TRs tech film (starring our friend Dan Koon AKA Joe Howard) who said when they suggested a Government investigation that that would be useless.
If you and Jimbo want to tilt at wind mills be my guest.
Persoanally I don’t think any thing will happen unless:
HCO has the balls to assume its proper function as covered in the HCOPL ‘First Substance and Duty’ and reassume control of all trade marks and copyrights they hold “in perpetuity” and dissolve RTC which does not exist in policy by the way and comm ev Miscavige for his obvious Crimes and High Crimes and then turned over to the “proper authorities” for trial and hopefully incarceration with Bubba.
Or
The Church eventually goes bankrupt financially as opposed to ethically and technically due to lack of support by its public which will happen because he’ll no longer be able to service the rich elitists who pay his bills through the IAS.
Hi Rj,
thanks a lot for the answer.
Feli
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