Association of Professional Independent Scientologists

The International Freezone Association has apparently made a very interesting  announcement.  They are changing their name to Association of Professional Independent Scientologists. 

For those who have not been following this blog for long, in its early days of late 2009 I initiated the idea of people standing up and announcing themselves as Independent Scientologists.   Some of the benefits of doing so and some of where I saw this trend going was covered in the post titled Independent Scientologists Community    26 Sept 2009.

Since then I have taken some heat from various sectors for not embracing the “Freezone” or the “International Freezone Association”.  Rather than waste a lot of time in debate I kept carrying along with the “Independent” agenda.  The idea was that given enough numbers and enough persistence three aims would ultimately be achieved:

a)  Scientology would ultimately become differentiated in the public mind from the Church of Scientology as Independent Scientologists took a stand and took more responsibility for it.

b) Scientologists in greater numbers would no longer feel they had to disassociate themselves with from Scientology to survive and flourish. They would de-pts from Scientology Inc and recognize that no madman can or should have a monopoly on their religion.

c) By the continued momentum of “a” and “b” the dark empire of Corporate Scientology would become increasingly irrelevant as the subject of Scientology rose from the ashes like the Phoenix in the forms of myriad Independent Scientologists.

We are one month past the beginning of year three in a plan that I initially estimated would take about five years.

There is a long way to go.

There will always be peaks and valleys.

Hopefully, we will continue to experience momentum.



164 responses to “Association of Professional Independent Scientologists

  1. Frankly, it doesn’t matter to me what name anyone uses – it is the application and results that matter.

    More groups will form to deliver services as time goes on.

    Credibility will be decided by the public at large.

    The corporate church will continue to lose ground and become insignificant in the world of Scientology. It will either have to initiate complete internal overhaul, which to me is a lost cause, or, simply die a slow agonizing death.

  2. Very interesting. Looking at this from a sociological or even evolutionary perspective, history shows that things change, split, develop into new forms. Religions certainly do this. Islam probably has over 70 sects (not just the Sunni-Shiite schism, but many others). Christianity may have hundreds. Same with Buddhism (with its threads of Zen, Tibetan, and various paths and versions). Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) has at least two major branches (LDS and Fundamentalist LDS / FLDS). Even groups as relatively small as Ananda (based on works of Paramahansa Yogananda) have at least two major factions, each claiming to be the true representatives of the faith, and each involved in lawsuits with the other over rights to the groups materials.

    Interestingly, it may be that the speed of communications in the modern world may actually accelerate the pace at which any religion evolves into new strands.

    From my perspective, Scientology is a little like a meteor that hit Earth. It has left a “debris field” behind with every range of pieces imaginable — people who want no part of it, people who feel it has validity, people who believe every word of it (the fundamentalists?), people who believe you should take the good and toss the not so good (reformists and liberals?), people who are skeptics in the positive sense and want to see standard research validation, and everything in between.

    I think time will sort all this out and that the distinctions between Freezone and Indies (if there is any meaningful distinction) will become clearer, and the status of the incorporated Church of Scientology will become established too — perhaps even through legal decisions. It seems to me that the common ground of Indies and Freezoners is that there is something very wrong with corporate CoS. Therefore, I hope they will unite to address and fix that. I personally hope that the “church” designation will be dropped. I and I think others find it manipulative and not at all helpful to an exploration and application of Scientology.

    What does seem to be futile in human affairs is to try to succeed to prevent change an evolution. This is true for cultures, languages, science, art, social structures and hierarchies, agriculture, and any other field — including religion.

  3. Definitely Marty was the first to originate the idea that we needed to come out in the open. He set a good example for everyone by doing exactly that himself from the start. The Indie 500 list for example is a direct result of Marty’s strategy and it has continued to grow, now more than 300 names strong. But these aren’t just any names, but highly-trained, veteran Scientologists, Sea Org, staff, OTs and highly classed auditors. With enough names on the list, eventually it will be pointless for the Church to “disconnect” anyone since we will have a stronger, more valuable and powerful network of connections than they do. Thanks to everyone who has joined to date. — Steve

  4. If you don’t have your name on the Indy 500 list, go to Steve’s website at and sign up. It’s a good place to be and to find others who share your views.

  5. Thanks for the brilliant update, Marty.
    So now they’re going to have to re-certify all their IFA auditors as APIS auditors? I see that those of us walking the talk aren’t on any lists as yet. I believe that is what I’ve been considering Independent meant these past 40 years…
    Also, the ‘rising like the Phoenix out of the ashes’ I envisioned and have been communicating about all these years had more to do with the transmutation of the organization itself, with the Independents continuing as anchor points in the field.
    It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.
    I like your plan and postulate “Hopefully, we will continue to experience momentum.” and I would add: “Hopefully we can all get along and co-exist in Peace and Harmony”.

  6. Marty: I might just have to call your blog The Sadhana of Independent Scientologists 🙂

    I spent 10 hours yesterday learning a new “sadhana” — which is a buddhist term to mean a practice that is a means of accomplishment. It’s a guide from the lama that tells you where you want to go.

    Depending on the lama it’s like an opera — with good guys, bad guys and in between. Very energetic.

    But everything comes down to a story. That is practiced over and over for the express purpose of helping the practitioner get to where he is going — and the best way to infiltrate thoughts is to replace them with another story.

    Rather than let Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, CNN or Fox News dominate your thoughts OR your own confused and oft times upsetting life … you
    replace your thoughts with another story.

    Thus the sadhana.

    Your blog Marty has REPLACED the horrifically biased anti-scientology and LRH blogs, has replaced conversations with former SO members or those still upset with Scientology, it’s replaced a vacuum for journalists, even inviting a whole new conversation.

    Yup — This is the Sadhana of Independent Scientologists …


    Thanks for everything you have brought to so many lives and will continue to bring …

    (of course includes all those actively supporting this blog, Mosey, Mike, Christie and so many others)


  7. martyrathbun09

    You do wonderful things with words WH.

  8. I confess, I had a momentary reaction of “how dare they”. But it only lasted a moment until I could step back and look at the scene for myself.

    Independent Scientologist is clearly an idea whose time has come. It does have a momentum of its own. Marty and the Freezone and many, many others are contributing to that momentum. It is formed by those who wish to see the study and application of the writings of LRH available for use by people free of any controlling group.

    Like FOTF2012 says, there will eventually likely be several camps of thought with varying degrees of agreement. I personally won’t fight that.

    For me, there are three issues in this game. 1) That it is a fundamental human right to have the freedom of spiritual practice without restriction by any government or “ecclesiastical” entity. This is applied by anyone being free to offer auditing to another or receive auditing. 2) That basic human rights will not be violated in the name of religious practice; i.e., no confinement, degrading treatment, etc. 3) That the public will be protected from intentional fraud and misrepresentation. They won’t be told they are receiving LRH technology when DM has modified the definition of F/Ns; they won’t be told their donations are being used for a purpose they are not, etc.

    If I call myself an Independent, it not because I’m a member of any group or association. It is because I believe that the others who call themselves independents share these same views for the most part and because I hope that my adding my name to that list will give support to others who are resolving their own doubt about DM’s church.

  9. tonydephillips

    Marty Luther, my man!

  10. martyrathbun09


  11. Freedom Fighter

    Boy, I’d sure hate to see this become a pissing contest of who-did-what-when. With the exception of those hell-bent on distroying the religion, we’re all Scientologists, period, whether some call themselves “idies” or “freezonerss” or whatever. Some had the good sense to get the hell out when the shit first started hitting the fan over roughly 30 years ago and blazed the trail for the rest of us to follow. Some of us, like myself, are late commers to the wake-up party. Regardless of who got out when and who calls themselves what, any type of petty devisiveness will only feed right into OSA and DM’s hands. Remember that. Both “flavors” of ex-churchies have elements of standardness and unstandardness. The marketplace will sort that out. The one thing we can all agree on, I’m sure, is that LRH’s legacy is being torn to bits by a whole-track SP the likes of which we haven’t seen in a while. Let’s be sure to stay focused.

  12. Tom Gallagher

    Well Marty, it’s been said that imitation is the highest form of flattery. Nice ack, wouldn’t you say?

    Meanwhile we can only guess what will be the latest lipstick-on-a-pig farce that will be dreamed up by POB.

    Have a great afternoon!

  13. Random Stranger


    1) Money

    2) Strong Positive Postulate

    3) Elaborate stages

    4) Lawyers

    5) Buildings

    6) The Rod

    7) Fear

    8) Intimidation

    9) Violence

    10) Terror

    11) Threats

    12) Slave labor

    13) His Zombie Executive Training Camp

    14) Good diet

    15) Speech coaches

    16) Rich people

    17) Hypnotized people

    18) Manipulation

    19) More money

    20) Particular policy letters and bulletins.

  14. The same old LDW

    Hey Marty,
    You and many others are doing a great job of differentiating the cult from the tech. This blog is such an amazingly successful comm line.

    As an independent scientologist, I can establish myself as a church, as an independent ministery, as a member of the growing metapsychology movement, as a non-religious or as a religious philosophy with a practical application.

    I could also set up shop as just a guy who uses this scientology stuff to help people be happier.

    Perhaps the best way for a new professional group to establish themselves is to do an ethnic survey of the public he’s most interested in servicing and see what’s most acceptable to that group?

    What I’m most interested in is an honest discussion between professionals regarding successful applications. For instance, Jim Logan did a very good write up on the track of F/Ns and his observations regarding miscavige’s squirrel version which he now enforces on his group.

    I did my own “investigation” into the F/N thing well over a year before I left the “church.” I used davie’s definition on several pcs and found one-for-one that when the pc had a cog, vgi’s and release that if I ignored the sometimes fleeting F/N and continued the process, that it did indeed overrun the pc.
    Easy enough to rehab, and I never went more than a half dozen or so commands beyond the EP before rehabbing. So I determined, by myself, for myself, that dave was full of crap and the LRH definiton of an F/N was correct. KSW point three, “knowing it is correct” comes about by applying the tech standardly and seeing that it works that way.

    I tried to write up what I found, but it didn’t really communicate that well. But Jim’s write up does, so now I’m using it. This kind of data analysis by competent tech terminals is extremely valuable.

    I believe, from my own observaton, that miscavige is using pavlovian behavior modification with the purpose of obedience and degradation.

    Those of us who wish to see the actual goal of “free beings” come to fruition, will be well served by establishing more and more communication venues and doing our best to keep the comm honest, open and devoid of service facsimiles. Here’s some food for thought. Imagine “knocking out incorrect applications,” at a tone level of 4.0 as contrasted with “knocking out incorrect applications,” at a tone level of 1.5 or 2.0. At this point we are having good success with never allowing our courseroom to go below 3.5 on the tone scale. At the end of this year, I plan on doing a full write up of results by operating this way.

    A survey in the late 70’s showed that over 3/4 of the staff really wanted to get trained as auditors. I hope that some of you guys who had that purpose will allow yourselves to rekindle that purpose and allow yourselves to see that all the danger and stress was misapplication, not something that is naturally built into the subject.


  15. martyrathbun09

    Great post Les.

  16. And with good results you’ll have progress.
    Nothing suceeds like success.

  17. +1
    It was a great liberating feeling when the wife and I signed on.

  18. the freezone scares me. maybe because I have no idea who they are.

  19. Excellent, excellent, excellent. This can only help to get us all on the same page KSW-wise, and promote standard LRH tech and application in the Indy field.

    It’s great to see more and more truly sane agreements being made by Scientologists operating outside of the C of S. With this, our speed of particle flow and power will continue to increase exponentially.

    What a win. Very, Very Well Done to all who are contributing to this Sea Change in the Indy field.

  20. I like the new name, AoPIS better. It seems to describe the original intent of that group better.
    I’ve heard the terms Indie and Indie Scientologist here for a few years and I like that, too!
    Me, I’m an Indie Me! And I like that best!! 🙂

  21. Tony DePhillips

    Plus 2!!

  22. Tony DePhillips

    21.) Kevlar thong.

  23. Tony DePhillips

    I like the way you think Les!!

  24. Phenomenal, sir. Bravo.

    It brings to mind a recent reference discovery: The Educational Axioms of Dianetics, a lecture 29 Aug 1950. It’s in the 0-8 book from 2007. Don’t know where it is otherwise. Some of the gems from that reference:

    A foremost part of all education is the evaluating of the importance of

    Only in the face of irrationality is force necessary.

    Authoritarianism is the introduction of arbitrary law where no natural
    law is known, yet maintaining that the arbitrary law is the natural law.

    Education must raise the level of rationality and increase and reinforce
    the basic purpose and dynamics of the individual if it is to result in a
    betterment of the individual or of society.

    It is a prime purpose of education to increase the self-determinism of
    the individual.

    It is a goal of education to sort the arbitrary from the natural.

    It is a principle of education to properly label that which is arbitrary and that which is natural.

    It is directly opposed to the best interests of education and a society to
    give force to any opinion of whatever kind and to force that opinion
    upon any student or individual.

    The maintenance of a high level of self-determinism is more important in educating than the maintenance of order.

  25. Ziba Feulner


  26. Ziba Feulner

    Great reasoning and foresight, Marty! Times are definitely changing and public is starting to see the difference between the Philosophy of Scientology and the current “Church” of Scientology under its corrupt leader, David Miscavige…

  27. TroubleShooter

    I learned of this this morning and figured that they were jumping on a bandwagon that they believe they owned in the first place. I’ve become acquainted with a few of the IFA guys. I’ve read some of the posts they’ve written and it seems like they feel a bit unacknowledged. Perhaps it’s also because some were the effect of some not so very happy times contributed to by some of the very people who are leading this new charge of freedom to practice Scientology openly and without harassment over the last few years now. I can see both sides of this to some extent if indeed we’re looking at there being sides which I think is a strong word for what I’m witnessing and discovering.

    I do know that there has been an active field of delivery by the IFA people for a long time now. I don’t know if they embrace LRH tech or if they believe that it should be added to or taken away from. I also know that the IFA has never made the kind of inroads in to full exposure and change in the church that needs to be made as they are focused on exposing the source of the suppression – cob David Miscavige little man with the big schtick.
    (schtick – (Yiddish) a devious trick; a bit of cheating; “how did you ever fall for a shtik like that?”).

    It’s possible that the IFA has put their own business ahead of the movement. I know none of the IFA members who have had any direct involvement with this movement that for all intents and purposes began with the debut of Marty’s blog. This is the point of potential divisiveness. If the IFA members didn’t exist would there be as much momentum now?

    Until I made my own journey out I only thought of the IFA group as a bunch of squirrels – a term that I learned to use to describe any one practicing Scientology outside of the “mainstream church”. Well now I know that I learned a lot of wrong things when I was drinking the koolaid! So maybe they aren’t a bunch of squirrels after all.

    What I’d like the IFA to make known is whether or not they audit the gradechart per LRH tech or not. The answer will tell me if they took that name in good faith, or as good of faith as they could without even having a comm cycle with Marty about it…

    If there’s a ridge I’m hoping it can be dissolved with some two way comm.

  28. +1! Many great people in this group, top of the line!

  29. I was assigned a lower condition in the Sea Org when I told someone I wanted to get trained. It was “C.I.” as my post was not one of the auditor.

    The islands of sanity established out here are vital and the people extremely valuable.

    We have built many worlds with broken straws. We have become very able at it!

  30. 1. Look for someone with tons of PCs. 2. Get in session and look for results with your own case. 3. If you’re genuinely unsatisfied, then don’t do the freezone. Remember, it’s your freedom you choose to exercise or not.

  31. Hi Marty,

    I would just like to make some points your followers may not be fully aware of.

    Firstly the IFA, as it was originally known, was formulated in 2003, as you might probably be aware, when the freezone was very much in its infancy and consisted of many scattered groups around the planet. The term itself was actually first employed by Bill Robertson of Rons Orgs fame some years before that.

    When I started the IFA It was with a viewpoint of being an international organisation and as the Freezone was the de rigueur word at that time, I adopted the term International Freezone Association. The full story can be found at

    Since then the freezone has come to include a hotch potch of fringe groups and individuals not all of which are adherence of standard tech or even of scientology and where some mix practices or alter the technology to suit their own goals and purposes.

    The IFA, now APIS, being a strictly standard tech organisation from day one, have no interest in being perceived as having any agreements or association with non standard practices and so a new name was sort to reflect our purposes and goals more accurately, The Association of Professional Independent Scientologists.

    This name was arrived at, not in an effort to align with anyone, but to more truthfully express our stance in the scientology world as it has existed since the IFA/APIS association was first conceived.

    I would like to also just take this opportunity of indicating that our purposes as outlined on the website have never changed and have always remained as they are given below.

    Preserve the exact technology and original workable philosophy of Lafayette Ron Hubbard for future use so it is available for all mankind.

    Protect the exact technology and original workable philosophy of Lafayette Ron Hubbard so it is not altered, diluted or changed in anyway but remains exactly as Lafayette Ron Hubbard issued it.

    Promote the exact technology and original workable philosophy of Lafayette Ron Hubbard so it may be known by all mankind.

    Foster, promote and develop fellowship and mutual aid among the IFA members within the framework of the constitution.

    Establish communication and understanding among the members of the IFA and members of other communities.

    Promote and sponsor educational activities that alert and teach the general public about the exact technology and original workable philosophy of Lafayette Ron Hubbard.

    Defend APIS from any attempt to inhibit it’s existence and expansion from any quarter.

    Assist in the defence of any of it’s members in the event of any unwarranted legal process to the detriment of the member on the basis of the member(s) exercising their legal religious right to practice the technology and original workable philosophy of Lafayette Ron Hubbard.
    Mediate in any disputes between members when requested but such mediation subject to standard ethics and justice policies as were originally issued by Lafayette Ron Hubbard.

  32. fly on the wall

    Their re-branding is a testimony to the success of this blog, the Independent concept and a confirmation that its the way to go. It adds momentum to the Independent brand and a welcome and beneficial step. There are strength in numbers and the more lines of communication carrying the word “independent”, the better.
    No need for anyone to join forces organizationally. Keep the practic simple, widespread, without any top down structure of authority or organization, except that which may be willingly engaged in without anyone signing over any rights to practice. The more standard the delivery, the more success the practitioner will have.

  33. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Hahahaha! So did I!!!
    I caught myself thinking ‘OH NO! I don’t want those…SQUIRRELS being associated with us!!!!’
    Hilarious. Still the little edges of brainwashing creep in from time to time.
    Onwards and upwards I go!

  34. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    I would sign up for that 😀

  35. I am so agree with Marty that we should not give up our religion name! Nether the books and procedures should be re-written to avoid the terms. We should stay together and hold the ground, own our Scientology universe.

    As Jim Logan says about Freezoners and Independent Scientologists in his video-interview taken a week ago, “What we have in common amongst us as the beings, is this search for truth and personal rehabilitation… So, I think that free open comm-lines will resolve any issues that exist amongst people.”

    By the way, all Jim Logan articles, video-interview and contact page to get in touch can be found on his website with Independent Scientology Community at

    You will also find there a new video-interview with Ian Waxler – class VIII Auditor and C/S on his blog at

    To follow the news – auditing/study/ethics success stories, new articles or interviews published on the Community blogs is easy by opening this activity page: – You’ll find there articles and video-interviews with Phil Spickler, articles and success stories from active Scientologists like Pat Krenik, Trey Lotz, Mary and Frankie Freeman, Anita & Les Warren, Candy Swanson, Rey Robles, Dexter Gelfand, Frank Davis and others, who publish them almost daily! Come to and read them at, acknowledge the wins and gains. Share yours, it will inspire someone else to get on and move up the Bridge! Links to all the community blogs can be found here: in order of last being active.

    I welcome and encourage you all to visit Independent Scientology Community blogs, to comment on the new articles and interviews, to create and enjoy the warm feeling of being connected, being a group, a 3D of each other.

  36. While we were routing out of the Sea Org at FSO back in 2004, I did a lot of reading in Qual while waiting for my route-out sec check sessions. In looking through one of the R & D volumes, I read where LRH was talking to a group of people back in the early days about some new discoveries he had made in running Dianetics (sorry, I don’t remember the reference). When he finished going over some new procedures he had developed, he asked those attending the lecture/workshop to go out and continue the development and use of Dianetic auditing. I looked at this as one of LRH’s primary postulates and it got me wondering if there were any individuals or groups who had done just that and were still out there somewhere. So after we left, one of the first things I did once I had my computer set up was to do a google search for Dianetic auditors outside of the C of S. Here’s what I found at this website:

    “Founded in December 1950 and incorporated as a non-Profit Educational Corporation on Feb. 27 1951, the California Association of Dianetic Auditors (C.A.D.A.) is the Oldest Independent Dianetic Organization in existence.

    Because the California Association of Dianetic Auditors is an Independent Dianetic Organization, we are in no way affiliated with any Hubbard Dianetic Organization or the Church of Scientology (CofS). In fact, the C.A.D.A. PREDATES CofS by nearly three-and-a-half years; the CofS being incorporated in September 1954.”

    What a nice win for LRH.

  37. Outside the church, we should all be able to walk forward in peace, as we aren’t being directly suppressed by a total psychopath any longer.

    The newly-named APIS is undoubtedly paying attention to the forward momentum this blog is creating in the direction of truth and justice for LRH’s tech and its preservation.

    My initial gut reaction was that they are stealing Marty’s thunder or riding his coat tails.

    Less than sixty seconds later, I realized that we can all just get along.

  38. Muckelford, Bryan U……Same thing 🙂

  39. Random Stranger

    22) Brotherhood with the Marcabians

  40. Yep, the least standard place of all…Church of David Miscavige (currently still called CofS) itself. There is no stable datum to compare to there and hasn’t been since the mid 1980s.

  41. Plus 3!!!

  42. one of those who see

    +100 and Love this: “Here’s some food for thought. Imagine “knocking out incorrect applications,” at a tone level of 4.0 as contrasted with “knocking out incorrect applications,” at a tone level of 1.5 or 2.0. “

  43. Hi Sara, you can get to know who they are. The Freezone convention, the Indie party in summer, youtube, google–there’s quite a bit of info out there. The best way may be to find someone you trust and ask them who they know. Heidrun Beer gave me a good list with some data about who was doing what. If you are a Scientologist already, you probably know how to get out of Non-existence on a subject. Have at it!

  44. one of those who see

    This alone could be the definition of Insanity!!!!!! “I was assigned a lower condition in the Sea Org when I told someone I wanted to get trained. It was “C.I.” as my post was not one of the auditor.

  45. Oh, and ask LDW! or Pat Krenik, or Trey Lotz, or Jim Logan.

  46. “Definitely Marty was the first to originate the idea that we needed to come out in the open.”

    So why come out in the open? I believe because it is for this reason:

    Standard, 1. A definite level or degree of quality that is proper and adequate for a specific purpose. (Class VIII, No 4) 2. “Standard’ in standard tech auditing is a precise activity, done with good TRs, exact grade processes and exact actions. (HCOB 10 Sept 68)

    Technology, 1. The methods of application of an art or science as opposed to mere knowledge of the science or art itself. (HCOB 13 Sept 65) 2.. a body of truths. (Class VIII No 4.)
    Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary 1975 by L. Ron Hubbard

    taken from

    Now, as opposed to this “In 1991, COB announced the release of the New Professional TRs Course. It was made a prerequisite for any and all Academy training.” And what LRH says “While there have been a number of “Hard TRs” courses over the years, none has ever been a prerequisite for Academy training.” Taken from

    Now in my eyes, anybody new coming in is forced to be Professional, a Professional Scientologists, from day one you might say is out gradient. And thus no new people. It’s only sort of old timers on the basics. Org comps in magazines are current staff members and old public not in the know about the indie field. It would be interesting if the magazines showing completed services would put in parenthesis (staff member or public).

    Anyways. My view is Marty is trying to get it “Standard” and apply the “Technology” per the above definitions.

  47. Assigned lowers because you wanted to be trained as an auditor???
    Now that’s about the most bizzare, insane thing I have ever heard of – geezes talk about thought police.
    It sort of aligns with what I observed with the LOC, (Life Orientation Course) it was dropped like a hot potato because at the end of the course it asked for and got your hat in life. Many realised they had different hats in life than what their post was… That sure got that course taken off the agenda real quick, especially with staff & the SO.

  48. and I think you can describe the indie field vs. corporate COS as this:

    “Technology, 1. The methods of application of an art or science as opposed to mere knowledge of the science or art itself. (HCOB 13 Sept 65) 2.. a body of truths. (Class VIII No 4.)”

    Where the methods of application of an art or science is the indie field= auditing per standard tech


    The present time COS as mere knowledge of the science or art itself = under control of DM and his knowledge of the tech. He is not an auditor right?

  49. miscavigeisscaredofsam


  50. 22) Fresh lipstick.

  51. Good post Les.
    You said that: ” Jim Logan did a very good write up on the track of F/Ns and his observations regarding miscavige’s squirrel version .”
    Where can I find Jim Logan’s write up? I’m interested. As I was affected when Flag trained wordclearers and auditors started waiting for the meter to play dixie.

  52. Bravo, Tatiana!

  53. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    I like Indie you too!
    I’ve heard a number of ‘Anons’ call themselves ‘Independent Anons’ because they don’t think like everyone else in the group.
    There are also ‘ex-Scientologists’, ‘wogs’ ‘Christians’, ‘Buddhists’ and ‘freezoners’ who may have completely different beliefs or ideas and yet are working for the same freedoms we are.
    We’re all on the same side and bound by a common purpose to end the abuses of RCS perpetrated in the name of religion regardless of the labels.
    And we are all wonderfully and beautifully different.

  54. “b) Scientologists in greater numbers would no longer feel they had to disassociate themselves with from Scientology to survive and flourish. They would de-pts from Scientology Inc and recognize that no madman can or should have a monopoly on their religion.”


    I worked for several Scientologists in their wog companies you might say. They paid me the going wage. I was under the assumption, this is since I got into Scientology in 1986. Mind you I had read and listened to all the books and tapes back then, and as a result of that knowledge I gained, I had a most ideal scene mocked up in my mind at the time, 1986.. I was under the assumption that if I worked for a scientologist in his business, why he would help me up the bridge. I gave it my all for each company. As it turns out, I came to realize that they would not help me up the bridge, they would only give me raises or bonus’s per the economy. And not at all per the work or service or knowledge I exchanged. I learned the hard way.

    Now, here we are in that time track of mine, 25 years later. The reason why , I have deduced, the previous Scientologist owners couldn’t pay me more was because their higher up bridge actions cost so much more. So they, the owners, paid themselves more and more so THEY could go up the bridge. That in itself does not align with “clearing the planet” under DM current set-up. Don’t you think.

    So, after realizing what I realized, I vowed to never work for another Scientologist again. You know what I mean. One makes more money in the wog world. This I realized about 5 years ago. How’s that for the great COS?

    And so I realized since coming here after reading Debbie Cook email, why and looking it all over, and all the exchanges in the church, and just thinking about it, I now realize that DM has turned everybody involved in the current COS as workers for him, with low pay too, little overhead expenses. From class 5 orgs, missions, SO members, FSM’s, all of them, IAS regs, he has turned them all into workers for him making him money, not the COS.

    That is my conclusion. That is my reasoning. Call me crazy, that is how I see it now in my time track into the science from what I know and have observed.

  55. Good for them. I’m just happy that things are changing… movin’ on…

  56. one of those who see


  57. One could just get wild and unserious, dive in, and use one’s own personal integrity as a guide. 🙂

  58. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. What I didn’t note but should have was that in the same stroke as adopting “Independent” you noted you were doing so in order to reflect your directing more toward L Ron Hubbard standard tech. It is quite clear that the former and the latter are becoming associated in the mind of Scientologists. More importantly, you all are heading back toward acknowledging what it is people expect you all to practice, and saying it right up front.

  59. martyrathbun09

    How one could possibly make a problem out of this post is mind boggling to me.

  60. Mike, my name probably won’t be on that list, but that is not to say that those whose names are, will not have a special place to me. I knew one day that evil organization calling itself a church {a.k.a. The Church of Scientology} would meet its match. No one in this universe can go on accumulating daily overts the way church members do and expect to be remembered in people’s hearts as “Person’s Of Good Will”. I am glad I came to my senses and I hope others do the same, as have the many people who have posted to this blog over the last few months I have commented here on things. I will surely think well of all the people whose information I have read. It’s time for me to move on. There is so much in life I missed out on by listening to the church and its time to start taking advantage of my eternity again. I wish you all the best, many more happy Indie parties that you will have, Tony, Karen and of course Marty, to the top of the list. It has been a joy. Thank you all for a wonderful comm cycles, even Dan Koon! {smiling}. Take care. 🙂

  61. There is no ridge. There is no conflict. There is no opposing force. There is not difference of opinion. There is no intention from the IFA or any of it’s members to disturb or to try and change opinions, whatever they are. IFA is PRO LRH in every way. IFA’s Website will explain it all, merely google.

    The IFA respects and encourages those who are PRO LRH. Our purposes are agreed upon by our members. I believe we are among friends on this blog.

  62. Random Stranger

    23) His secret deal with Satan.

  63. Martin Gibson

    I felt a shift in viewpoint reading that Marty.
    The actual viewpoint of independance, purity of workable tech and honest use of help, has been around for 30 years. Aligned it is of comparable magnitude to what ever corporate strucrure is in place. There are thousands of independents actually. And we HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.

  64. TroubleShooter

    I don’t consider that’s what I did. at all.

  65. Thank you for the great links, Tatiana. I’m still finding my way out here, so posts like yours are very helpful.

  66. Cap Bob. I went through the same thing. When I left the SO I went to work for a Scienyologist company because it felt more safe. I worked my but off there but after almost two years I quit because I realized he can’t reward properly the people who work for him. Between the cost of his six month checks, support of his doughter on staff, wife not working but doing all the OT Commitee and similar things and all the crazy donations he just could not do it. Plus all the stupid application of conditions and ethics was just too much. I find working with and for nonscn people more rewarding.

  67. Freedom Fighter

    Great links, Tatiana! Thanks for posting.

  68. Interesting analysis, FOT 2012 but I would have to disagree with stripping Scientology off its designation as a religion. To me, it is a religion, no less valid than Buddhism, Taoism or Vedism, the family of religions to which it is related. Of course, the loss of religious status would be the end of Corporate Scientology with its human rights abuses and criminality. That would be good but it would be a morally wrong way of doing it which would have far-reaching negative repercussions.

    In regards to any difference between the Freezone and Independent Scientology, the divide is very blurred except that the old-timers do not trust newer materials, newer tougher auditing TRs, sec checks, newer Grade Chart, etc., and always use older materials from the 60’s and 70’s. In addition to the old-timers, Freezone per my observation consists of Independents who do not care for the war with the Church and stay out of it. And there are people like me, Independents who are also Freezoners as they are being trained and audited by Freezone field auditors.

  69. In all sincerity, I don’t believe the public is seeing much difference between the philosophy and the church. I do and did see in 10 years as a public Scientologist and 40 years after as a non scientologist, that the word Scientology only brings bad connotations, fear and very disagreeable warnings and it has gotten worse over the years with publicity and negativity. It could be well for only ex’es, but cannot see it bringing in new people or good PR when they hear that name and look it up on the net, particularly these last several years. That’s only my opinion.

    A public wish would be: where can I find some workable tech not connected to bad PR and be able to share with friends. As for me, I Would like others to have what I have received, but find it almost impossible with my honor and integrity in tact. Credit of course to Ron.

    I first started “Looking” after getting back into scientology as public over a year ago, to buy the tech made available, for help I wanted. I started realizing the detrimental changes, the organizational disaster, then Debbie’s letter which pointed out some of those things I saw. The first site I went to with interest after Marty’s, link on TBT, was Ron’s Org and Friend’s of Ron because I knew that Ron was a friend to me with his auditing tech, enabling me with greater wins and abilities. (However not with the OSA tech, lawsuits, etc from ’79 and on, which people remember and connect Extremely well to the name Scientology).

    Marty, speaking only for myself, am not happy using the name Scientology, as it is, at this time. Can see it’s usefulness for others. I think what you’re doing and have done is in the right direction. I commend you for escaping, then doing a very good job with helping connect people through your site and it’s done extremely well without that name. Living in the real world is an enormous change to go through for any of us, as we all know and time well spent.
    If Debbie’s lawyers think that would be beneficial to her case, that a different story. A very big change needs to occur.

    I’ll take this moment to say “thank you Marty for being here and helping.”
    Let’s carry on and let the Source be with us!

    Feel free to edit this if you see any negativity.

  70. one of those who see

    The speed of this reformation/evolution certainly qualifies as OT Phenomena. Got really keyed out reading some of the comments! Here are my thoughts:
    Scientologists. 1950 to present-are beings who dared to look. Dared to reach for true spiritual freedom. More often then not, it was a journey we set out on alone. Those around us were at best tolerant, sometimes indifferent and at worst extremely upset with us. And we persevered anyway.
    I choose to be in ARC with all of you.
    In the early 80’s there were Scientologists that refused to go in the direction Miscavige was taking the church. People like David Mayo and Mary and Frankie Freeman, Harvey Haber and Bill Robertson to name a few. Many had already been Scientologists a while and were highly trained and OT. They were heros. I was brand new back then and barely knew what was going on. I stayed with the church. To those early Independents – you were right.
    And here we are with the new Exodus with so many great people aboard. Lots of Sea Org members and staff took the initiative back then and they have taken the initiative now. And now the comm lines are wide open and fast moving with the Internet.
    And what of Standard Tech? Do we need a Dictatorship based on punishment and the denial of human rights to keep the tech standard? NO. Dictatorships lead to slavery and death.
    Scientology will spread far and wide and fulfill it’s aims in freedom.
    Open, high toned discussion and help. The days of Coercion have to end. I would like to see the return of “hat, don’t hit.” No hidden data lines. The tech, easily accessible.
    LRH wrote about what happens to a Non – standard Academy. And with complete freedom of speech, word of mouth will spread about Auditors who get results and those that don’t.
    Free, open communication will be a relief to all Scientologists. I look forward to hearing from those who have been silenced – freed by the Debbie Cook Project!
    There are very few true suppressive persons out there. The world is a wonderful place. They are more easily spotted when the good guys stop pointing fingers and persecuting each other.

  71. one of those who see

    Hi Roy. Thanks. Great comment!

  72. one of those who see

    Thank you for the clarification. So glad you are posting here.

  73. Some further comments to what I posted above just to clarify some points.

    It seems some have a gross misunderstood on the APIS (formerly IFA) or have not had time to check out the website.

    The IFA has been in the field representive source technology for around 8 years. It is not a johnny come lately and, with respect, was around long before Marty ‘came out’ and was promoting source technology all that time since inception..

    We have always been a proponent of the independent movement since we started and this can be found in past issues of the quarterly journal of the IFA going back eight years. (early issues are free and available on site)
    I recommend people read the history page as mentioned before.

    In addition, It has said on the website since it started that it is an independent scientology movement aand has continued to poitn this out. Our name change is simply catching up with this.

  74. Never mind….I just found and read Jim Logan’s article.

  75. I believe we are all on the same page so to speak. Or contributing to the motion, to use an LRTH term, and the more that we and others DO so the more we are creating a future for scientology.

    The future is where it counts. Not just for us here and now but for us at a later time when we return, regardless of one’;s age now.

    Where will scientology be in 50 years? Still in its recognisable state or will it have changed beyond all recognition? It will be up to us to ensure that it is retained and preserved and protected. That is what the APIS (formerly IFA) is about.and I am sure what Marty and many others are about too.
    The more support we can contribute to each other and the more we can ensure the technology remains as is without being changed or altered through the future years the more chance there is this planet may be salvaged sometime in the future.

  76. The Chinese singlehandedly have given Tibeten Buddhism and the Dalai Lama to the world. Sometimes the antagonist in a story is the catalyst for the prevailing of spreading truth. Truth, freedom, liberty is an idea and CANNOT BE CONTAINED.

  77. Beautiful, that’s what will heal society concerning Scientology. Society hates, and I’m in full agreement, any sort of elitist anything. When any way is the “best” “only” “most groovy workable fastest advanced”, society will reject it. We are tired of any more hard sell anything. “Just gimme some truth, all I want is some truth”. Lennon

  78. When Mary Sue Hubbard died, I grabbed the domain name and turned it over to IFA (This group in mention) with a copy of the pamplet that got sent out as M.S.H.’s clear announcment. They (Mike) created a beautiful web site for M.S.H..

  79. Remember when……….if someone was ARC broken with the Org, an auditor would be sent to their home to patch things up? For free!

    Nowadays, if someone expresses an ARC break with an Org, they get declared.

  80. You definitely are Roy, 100%.

  81. “I caught myself thinking ‘OH NO! I don’t want those…SQUIRRELS being associated with us!!!!’”?
    I am Scientologist since 1977 and since long time wondering what is going on. I was sure that we do not have LRH Scientology. But I did not know anything better. Then Debbie´s e-mail, which I did not receive started to stir on facebook and I wanted to get more data. I am very thankful that I found this site, but now I am wondering why you call the others squirrels. They are in my eyes competent auditors there. Why are they squirrels?

  82. Exactly, Marty. Another thing that Scientologists in the Independent field need to realize as well is that Miscavige and Co. are not above sending plants out into the field to advocate squirreling the tech in order to sabotage the the success of Scientology outside the auspices of the C of S (there is more and more mounting evidence that this is indeed the case). More on this as it develops.

    If it’s not Standard Tech and the standard LRH training lineup and processing route, then Indies had best inform themselves of what is Standard Tech and beware the intentions of any individual advocating anything else.

    In this, we also need to realize that Miscavige is literally out to destroy the subject of Scientology itself. He’s desperately trying to get someone to stop him; and there is no low that he will not stoop to in order to achieve this end.

  83. Lynne,
    Up until this past week doing an informal sort of survey while in LA, I would have agreed with you, generally. Now, an emphatic NO on certain aspects of the “freezone”.

    For instance, there is one particular person to avoid. He informed me he was going in a “different direction than KSW” and that he’s running, randomly, without proper CSing, training, and the preclear properly set up – Power Processing. This is not just some process, this is one of THE most exact processes that requires exactitude and if mis-done can and does wreak havoc with preclears.

    He also apparently does this over the phone, and HE holds the cans.

    Dexter Gelfand is his name.

  84. Thanks Michael. (Sorry we didn’t get a chance to meet up while I was there. I’ll be back though. We’ll have another shot.)

  85. See my comment above on Dexter Gelfand.

  86. I’m personally REALLY encouraged by the idea of a “coming together” of Indies/ F/Zers or whatever. As some one pointed out above, the market will sort out the wheat from the chaff. Anyone who sits down with a meter and delivers standard tech to PC’s who want it is OK by me. What’s in a name? This looks like a very positive move. I’ve met many “freezoners” in the last couple of years and not a one of them is of bad intent.

  87. Independent Person

    The “independent Scientologist” meme is a good one. “Free Zone” indicates just that – a host of differing or mixed practices, including, but not limited to standard Scientology.

    Anyone wishing to explore mixed practices can explore the Free Zone.

    Anyone wishing to explore and practice Hubbard’s Scientology will relate to the term “Independent Scientology” better than “FreeZone”.

    Anyone wishing to use the spiritual philosophy of Scientology developed by Hubbard to improve their ability to operate in the world, is free to become an Independent Scientologist.

    (And of course, anyone wishing to be broken in order to become a programmed zombie slave out of communication with, and in fear of, the world, is free to join the Radical Corporate Scientology Corporation headed by David Miscavige.)

    This is evolution.

  88. I don’t wanna work in Miscaviges farm no more.

  89. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Lawrence. Don’t be a stranger….

  90. Tony DePhillips


  91. Nice one, Sam! 🙂

  92. Michael Moore,

    Thank you for your clarification. You have cleared up some things for me. I have always admired the way you handle yourself.

  93. Yes, great post, Les!

    Does anyone out there know, how Auditors handle F/Ns these days?
    In my last auditing at Flag in 1995 it was virtually impossible to
    be a pc. I routed myself out in the middle of the pgm and
    swore not to go back, as long as auditors stared at the meter
    instead of auditing. (And haven’t been back!)
    Since people are still being audited at some orgs,
    does anyone know how auditors get around this
    Do they all cheat?

  94. “No need for anyone to join forces organizationally. Keep the practic simple, widespread, without any top down structure of authority or organization, except that which may be willingly engaged in without anyone signing over any rights to practice. The more standard the delivery, the more success the practitioner will have.”

    Agreed everything. This is what the future of expanding scientology will look like.

  95. Joe Pendleton

    Not to necessarily repeat what another has posted, but FOTF makes an important point. I will just add to his post that we can also see this quite often in the history of Christiany. At many times, groups of individuals have decided that the church they belonged was no longer serving their spititual needs, but was instead becoming mostly a power source, not only acting in complete control of its parishioners’ lives, but also enriching itself financially in many ways. Their solution was to form their own sects independantly of the “mother church” in order to be closer to the true spiritual soutce of their religion. So now we are seeing a similar thing happen in Scientology. It is a very healthy occurance that this is happening. It is also healthy that there will be more than one independant group that people can choose among.

  96. Hello Mr. Les, i´m very interested in the write up regarding the F/N from Mr. Logan. Would you please be so kindly to tell me where i can found it. Thank you very much in advance.

  97. TroubleShooter


  98. martyrathbun09

    Great sum up.

  99. martyrathbun09

    And that is why the name adoption is so encouraging. I got hammered for suggesting Independent Scientology stands for standard tech. Well, those doing the hammering are beginning to catch on – the public ain’t interested in shoddy substitutes.

  100. martyrathbun09

    Nice, but read why the name change on the site itself, and realize what lead to that…or not, it is your prerogative.

  101. martyrathbun09

    “change needs to occur”? It is. You just need to look and act.

  102. martyrathbun09

    Except the Freezone is now the IPSA.

  103. Exactly, Scott. Good points. So what is standard tech? LRH has this to say (and this will help those looking for standard tech in the field, and to beware those who offer Snake Oil and Charms):

    “Where does Standard Tech begin? What is it?

    It is the accumulation of those exact processes which make a way between humanoid and OT.

    The exact method of organizing them, the exact method of delivering them, and the exact repair of any errors made on that route.

    So the net result of all of this is that when it is not standard he will have had some gain; it’s not all bad, but he’ll also have not achieved his full gain.

    And the difference between some gain and the difference between that and full gain, is the difference between wobbly-bobbly tech and very standard, precise tech.”

    Class VIII Tape 2, 25 September 1968 “What Standard Tech Does”

    APIS (IFA) is intent on ensuring accessibility to LRH’s legacy through a continued adherence to standard tech (which is one of the reasons APIS certifies auditors, in accordance with LRH policy) and what Ron intended when he developed his tech; there is no allegiance to DM or anyone else other than the tech and the old man. That’s why APIS has Class VIIIs and dedicated OEC/FEBC grads on board. It’s a group with the common purpose to see Scientology available to all who wish to avail themselves of it to go up a standard LRH Bridge, unadulterated, unblemished, and un-DMified!

    There myriad references, we all know many of them. But in the end, it’s not about “us” or “them” or “CoS” or anyone other than ourselves: our ability to look and observe; our own integrity to ourselves and the tech; and maybe, if it’s one’s inclination, to the old man.


  104. Jim,

    How long are you in LA/California? You can email me direct if you like. I’ll be down sometime this summer. Be great to hook up, quaff a few beer at some local establishments, and talk about the “good ol’ days”! Heheh.

  105. This blatantly incorrect, Marty. As Michael pointed out above, the “Free Zone” was a term coined by CBR in the mid-80s and was long in use before IFA (now APIS) came about. APIS (not IPSA) does not represent the FZ in any matter shape or form. It is itself, and was established for specific purposes as Michael laid out in his post above. The Free Zone still exists (CBR originally had it as two words – it devolved/evolved into one) as it always has, a combination of on-source Scientologists, Rons Orgs (RO network) and the rest a rabble of people being a wild wild west of “Scientology”.

    Many of those who left in the early 80s were “independents”: witness the AAC and Mayo, many in LA, etc. CBR went to Europe and formed up the RO network which became the original “Free Zone”. Anyway, lots more history on this if one cares to research.

  106. LOLOL. Too funny, if it weren’t so true and sad! Yeh, the times, they certainly have a’changed, hey?

  107. A Scientologist should stand for standard tech, whether independent or otherwise. Scientology is Scientology. Period. As the RCS Church no longer practices “Scientology” or “Standard Tech”, they should no longer call themselves Scientologists. Your observation and suggestion were spot on.

  108. Okay, that’s pretty scary.

  109. martyrathbun09

    And you can’t see the forest for the trees.

  110. I’ll speak for myself here. From my own viewpoint. First, the FZ is NOT”IPSA” or APIS. APIS’ name change came from a suggestion two years ago and yes I believe the 500 club influenced it. But from what I understand that’s where it stops. APIS wanted to further define it’s purposes and goals as stated earlier, so it did change, finally, it’s name to represent independence from the Freezone, where just about anything goes. It’s not that “old timers” only believe in the tech they had in the “old days” and that’s what the FZ is all about. Thats 1% of the FZ. In the FZ, people who have been associated with Scientology in any capacity are free to do what they want to do, whether it’s John McMasters tech, single flow, or whatever. It IS confusing. For many years the only thing around was the FZ. Hence quite a few years ago the IFA was formed, to preserve and protect Standard Tech. That’s the purpose. ALL Standard Tech, not just up until 73 or 78 or 82 but ALL STANDARD TECH as defined by LRH in the Tech Dictionary and the Class VIII tapes. NOT GAT. NOT THE ABERRATION OF THE F/N. So. This Blog represents to my knowledge those people who have claimed independence from the corporate church, from the aberrated tech, from the off source actions of stealing money, etc. That is pro survival, and a lot is being done to fight such corruption. It’s cool. That is NOT necessarily APIS’ purpose. APIS purpose is to preserve and protect the tech as written and approved truely by the founder, to ensjure auditing and training using same occur, and to get new people into it’s network with the purpose of disseminating truely developed Scientology as written/approved by LRH.

    There are many definitions of the Freezone. Hence the name. Anyone is free to do what anyone’s viewpoint is of Scientology and Dianetics, no matter what the viewpoint is. APIS is APIS, previously known as IFA, and Marty’s Blog is Marty’s Blog. There are differences but I see no conflicts. We share the beliefs about the church. Those on this list for the most part want to get up the bridge. APIS didn’t steal the term “Independent” . The word is truely very old. In this case it has a common definition which includes APIS.

    Now that’s my viewpoint, and that’s all it is. I am a member of APIS, a Second Generation Scientologist, an X Sea Org Member and trained Auditor, etc. I believe in LRH, I’m Pro LRH, and I learned about Scientology long before many on this list came to this life. Makes me no different than you all. We all have a common belief. Let’s pursue the belief and take a win.


  111. Exactly the reason for APIS. We want to ensure that people know there is a standard way out. A true rout to Clear and OT, the way LRH intended it. There are many “scary stories” in the FZ. Jim touched on only one of them. This may shock you, but I was told by one FZ’r that this person received an “L” in 15 minutes! Know that I have not had the L’s, and I’m certainly by no means a Class XII, not even close. But I have a friend or two who would get mighty upset about that little story. I don’t know, maybe this person was kidding me, but even so, there’s no humor in that that I can see. Again, we, all of us, want what LRH intended. We are of one belief in that I think. Thus the Independents.

  112. Pingback: Das Ende der Freien Zone? | Der Treffpunkt

  113. I think you’ve just stated the basic beingnesses of the non-corporate, versus corporate Scientology communities, perfectly.

    I’m new to this side of the fence, but that’s how it looks to me.

  114. Joe, I see the same evolution occurring within the religion of Scientology. I was just telling my wife that I can see Independent Scientology churches and groups popping up all over the world in the near future. Not unlike the Christian religion, where any group of like-minded believers is free to organize their own local church to minister to their community.

    In my mind, the existence of thousands of free and independent churches of Scientology will better ensure the survival, usage, and purity of Ron’s tech. Those groups that squirrel the tech will die on the vine, while those that practice Standard Tech will flourish and prosper. Real results and real stats will be the honest drivers of those groups’ survival. All the glittering magazines, events, and buildings in the world, won’t save an organization that doesn’t deliver what’s promised, and coercion/mind control will be of no use whatsoever. People will simply leave, and join a church that does deliver Standard Tech.

    In mid-2005, I spent six weeks in the ASHO HGC being driven down into a state of solid, enturbulated mest. I can’t tell you how badly I wished that I could simply pick up and move down the street to an On Source org. At the time, I had no idea that such a thing even existed. Imagine my relief today, knowing that it does.

  115. Thank you Jim, I looked. I understand and agree. But at the same time I am with you on that the way to resolve conflicts is to open the comm-lines and let the comm freely flow. Directing attention to that what we have in common, not fixating on disagreements.
    Setting a good example on been on source, productive and successful in reaching the Scientology goals with Scientology tech will do the best.
    LRH says that public avoids the squirrel, off-source orgs. That is also true talking about field auditors.
    I do not see the separation into the differently named groups is a solution, nop, quite the opposite. I say that the field should be regarded as one entity, we should all be in communication with no isolation, so those wondered away from the path (or felt from the Bridge) can be accessed and fixed and brought back. Not individuating into smaller groups and dividing the responsibility into smaller circles “I am right and I have nothing to do with others, not responsible for them”. That is not the way 3d Dynamics works. Breaking into the bunch of smaller groups fighting with each other about which one is more standard – is not the way to go. As well as fighting against the church as a kind of Scientology group, or even against DM, as a weirdest and squirelliest kind of Scientologist, is a waist of time and effort.
    I suggest we regard us all as US. Not country, us all – the Scientologists. Be responsible for all and any Scientologists, whether freezoner or independent or whatever else he lables himself.
    I would even suggest to lose the “Independent” part and call ourselves Scientologists. Plane and simple.

    Lets get busy training auditors, sups, ethics and admin specialists. Lets promote the productive auditors who audit and get the result – move the public up the Bridge. Lets create missions and deliver. Lets keep Scientology WORKING – producing. And when the production is up, Ethics goes up. And there will be nothing even to argue about then, when everybody is busy producing. 🙂

  116. He also apparently does this over the phone, and HE holds the cans.

    Dexter Gelfand is his name.

    Aye, aye, aye. I was just watching this guy’s videos last night on one of the FreeZone websites: Dexter Gelfand, CA

    Thanks for the warning, Jim!

  117. I am well aware of the changes happening, but the Big change has not occurred yet, tho it will in time. You know not what I look at, or my actions, and I do understand your simple advice.

  118. I wish to add a little. On the welcome to the Sea Org course we learned about the team work and about the crew that cares and takes responsibility for each crew member.
    We are all one team, one crew one one ship (as Phil Spickler likes to see it) – on the ship called planet Earth.
    I invite us to look at each other as a team members, rather then opponents, as a simply more productive way. Not because it is “nice”, but because it opens the door to the possibility to do something about it. We can not control or change that which we take no responsibility for, that we fight against. For example, lets regard DM as a 180 degree Scientologists. Or, maybe even 179. One of us, Scientologists. Lets be responsible for him and see, what we can do to make him a Scientologists 178 degree on target.
    Also the point I wanted to make is that Beingness comes before doingness, right? So, if someone wants to be a Power Processing Auditors one has to assume that beingness first. THEN regarded and ackknowledged as such he can be helped with doingness, so he does not end up with overt product and upset. But the approach as I see it should be the same – not blaming and fighting against, not disconecting and pointing to the wrongness, but taking the responsibility for ONE OF US, for the OUR team player – fellow Scientologists who DOES work toward improving the conditions etc, lets help him to do it better. Lets put our whatever Scientology post we created for ourselves hat on, lets be professional about it. Write a program, find a crushing MU, cooperate – not fight against.
    What ever tech you mastered – use it to help, not to fight.
    That’s my point.
    And I love you all.

  119. martyrathbun09

    Hi Tatiana. Hope all is well with you.

  120. Dear Jim, with all my respect and agreement with you, as much as my disagreement with Dexter on that particular “over the phone auditing”, I wish you treated this situation differently and did not drop the bomb on the head of up-stat by production auditor. He brings new public on the Bridge, he delivers the Grades (He was my auditor on Grade 1 and it was done right, I benefited a lot), corrections and assists, not only the randomly selected Power Processes. There is a standard way to handle out-tech. I beg you not to target the auditor, please, do not crush his reputation, but his MUs. It is a false data should be stripped, not the person out of group.I know Dexter, he is so one of us, who wants to help people to increase their awareness, and who does it to the best of his abilities. The superior knowledge and skills you have as a Cramming Officer and Sup can be used to help, not to destroy. It will be more productive if we cooperate, not fight. I can be wrong, but I hope you understand me right.

  121. Here is a solution I can think of from the top of my head (besides cramming the auditor): we can educate public on how the processes are run and what to expect. It can be done in the form of… as series of articles or video-lectures – the introduction to Grades, to Ls, to Power Processing, to PTS handling etc. Orientation. Then PC can take some responsibility too for choosing the right auditor for the action.
    Of course, the best is to go up the Bridge the both sides.

  122. There is the Golden Age of Tech, and the Golden Age of Dex. Everyone, even Hubbard, is challenged with competition.
    It is only fair in the marketplace to explain to a person, what it is you are selling so they know what they are buying from you.
    The best way to Keep Scientology Working is to actually use it.
    There are people out here selling Scientology (a defined methodology with rules procedures and laws) but delivering something else. It’s called bait and switch. I have the utmost respect for the guy that started EST. He put his own name on it and took full responsibility for his own products and called it something else, which it was. He was not a fraud.

  123. Hi Marty, I am holding it, but have room to grow! 🙂 Thanks for asking.
    I heard Monique is already auditing? Excellent product!
    How is the “big barn” project progressing? I so look forward to read your reports on that one! 🙂

  124. There is an important missing factor in all the discusion here.
    The distinction between ” Freezoner” and ” Independent” is
    primarily about when one left CO$.
    In early days the preferred term was “Independent”.
    People have been leaving CO$ before there even was a COS!
    There is CADA who have the copyright on the term ” Dianetics” or similar and who incorporated before the COS was formed. The founder, or at least an early exec was the well known SF writer Van Vogt.
    There was an early offshoot ” The Process” who were REALLY squirrelly. Really dark black magick best I could see. Doing something different now, but I never followed that closely.

    Then one should realize that LRH recommended reading Crowley in the PDC lectures.

    ” You want the truth! You can’t handle the truth!”

    Lol! Check out Crowleys “Magickal Memory” [ past life regression] and the “Naples Arrangement” [ roots of the factors]

    The primary creation of the FZ was after the “Mission Holders Conference ” when the current regime with its Pope on a box
    smashed the most successfull flowering of Scn, the Mission Network. Many broke away and I believe all succumbed to CO$ pressure. But they were an initial FZ formation which have too some, maybe a great degree, risen again.

    Then there was David Mayo’s AACs. Again pretty much completely devastated by CO$’s 10 year legal efforts. Worldwide AAC organisations disappeared.

    Note that David Mayo occasionally posts on ESMB. Very carefully!

    The most successfull survivor was Rons Org’s created by CBR.Probably because they didn’t fall under US legal standards.

    So: Prior to 1982 one might consider those doing
    “TECH outside COS” , my calling card:) probably thought of themselves as independents. After that, following CBRs definition probably called them selves ” Freezoners”. Then after Marty started his blog those following him referred to themselves as “Independents”. However many of those were still or previously referring to themselves as “Freezoners.”
    You did scientology outside COS between 2003 approx and 2009 approx you would refer to yourself as a Freezoner mostly.
    You follow Marty’s blog post 2009 you mostly consider yourself an independent. Vive la Differance. 🙂 There you have some very impressive opinion leaders doing great stuf.

    The ” Modern Freezone” started around 2000 with forums utilizing yahoo. I was there at the beginning and the CF is probably around 2000. Not that much is done with that.

    IMNSHO FZ v Indie is a distinction of negative value.

    We are Scientologists, we oppose the destruction and abuse
    created by the midget pope. We deliver tech best we can.

    As one or several said the most out tech is in CO$.

    They are not there for the client. They are vultures on the client.
    So there are some FZers who don’t nessesarily apply the best possible tech. Mostly they really try.

    Better acceptance of qual would be a good idea.

    I could comment on the wonderful successes from certain people who apparently throw the rules away and get brilliant results. Real experts.

    I could comment on idiots [ polite term] class VIIIs , well one
    who failing to help, declared PC an SP and tried to break up a family.

    Our subject is difficult to master. There are masters around.
    I only promote standard tech. The exception is Ron’s Orgs
    who train more auditors than all else combined. Not personally interested in their levels after OT 3, or NOTs for that matter.
    Have had my own revelations in that area.

    The masters are mostly old. Maybe possibly in the english speaking world we can begin to equal the training record of ROs.

    Things are expanding really nicely.

    I have a question, as always I look to promotion. Why is it that the people here have mostly ignored mine and others promotion?

    I can get even more controversial. For example is the Purif all it should be? Check out heavy metal detox and chlorrella.

    And even more!

  125. Excellent tape ref Chris. Thanks

  126. Thank you! That is right on spot.

  127. “We all have a common belief. Let’s pursue the belief and take a win.


  128. You are 100% right Chris. People selling ketchup call it ketchup. You cannot put mustard in a bottle with a ketchup label and not get complaints from customers. I have no problem with people’s civil rights doing whatever they want to do between consenting adults exploring the occult.
    But if you promise 100% standard tech to someone you should be willing to deliver what you promise. Medicine is practiced this way. If you promise some one chiropractic, you do not sell them chiropractic then deliver a lung transplant. What is Scientology is what was packaged and sold and endorsed by Hubbard. I sure as hell do not want to show up at the Thelma Temple and see an e meter. And I don’t want my auditor chanting spells
    at my case. God Dammit what it does it take to get a simple cup of coffee around here anymore?

  129. I don’t think Jim needs to be corrected or stopped either for forwarding a truth. He is making auditors and helping people up the bridge. He has only forwarded a truth. Roy has only forwarded a truth. Why should Dexter be the only one allowed to put forth his truths? Because he is an auditor? David Miscavige is an auditor too. I know that makes us cringe sometimes because these come up as inconveniences. But being here and communicating should not be a crime. And truth spoken should not be a problem for a Scientologist to hear no matter the inconvenience it brings. Comfortable lies are the stuff our case is made of. It is well and good to handle it in session but we have to change our operating basis as we rise above these dangers. If Dexter himself is putting out comm lines to people and promoting to people his new discoveries and methods he is obviously curious about feed back and proud of his discoveries. Why should it be a group a with hold?

  130. Tatiana,
    Dexter Gelfand’s abuse of Scientology is egregious. Public revelation of his blatant violations of this material is important FOR THE PUBLIC.

    If this guy thinks this is unfair, well, he can sue me. In the meantime, I am cleaning up messes made by these so-called auditors. My patience with this particular individual is non-existent at this time. Should he cease committing present time, continual overt acts and come to his senses, the door to correction is open – a crack.

    None of this is meant to inval any of your gains. Well done to you.

  131. Tatiana,
    Thank you for your enthusiasm, your dedication and your compassion. I’m tracking right along with you here.

    In this particular instance, I have no compunction about stamping on this particular individual’s blatant “know best” and factually dangerous abuse of a very specific piece of technology. I have zero hesitation in 7,8,9 and 10 when it comes to this kind of suppressive out-tech. Neither for Dexter nor David Miscavige and in this case one is as bad as the other when it comes to serious abuse of the materials of Scientology.

    IF either one comes to their senses and is willing to actually cease the overts of harmful renditions delivered to other beings, well in that case, on goes the other hat and I’ll be willing to adjust the KRC level to a more appropriate state.

    Again, I appreciate what YOU do.

    I can observe what I observe and say what I observe. In this case, I would be grossly remiss were I not to do just that.

  132. Jim,
    I kept thinking about your comment and my answer to you yesterday and came to the conclusion, that my effort to ease it down comes from not so high tone level. Deep inside I am with you, that reaction on out-tech should be sharp and prompt – no tolerance. You are right informing the public of your qualified view. If we all reacted like you we would not have that much out-tech in the field now.
    I have not spoken with Dexter about this discussion and what I say is my opinion only. I agree with you and Oracle, that if Dexter wants to deliver Scientology, it should be brought to the Scientology standards, and if he wants to deliver something else, he should openly call it something else, taking full responsibility for it and for the results.

  133. Yes, Oracle, I agree.
    I changed my mind about Jim commenting on Dexter’s out-tech. It helped a lot – your comment about people delivering something else and that they should name it so and take responsibility for their actions and its results. And if it is called Scientology, it should be brought to the Scientology standards. Jim is intolerant with out tech and thanks God, he is.
    Thank you both for speaking out truth.

  134. Jim,
    Thank you for the ack. And I am sorry for the comm-lag in understanding the truth you relay. You are right, I see it clearly now. Thank you.

  135. Yes number 2) Strong Positive Postulate is the key point. Outside the Cof$ after a while people begin to understand that the bridge is incomplete and it stops there at OT VII (for someone VIII), and that is the weakness of the free or indipendent Scientology: incomplete bridge. The problem in the 80s was basically that one and it will be the problem also now. You can not-is it for a while that the Bridge is incomplete, but then you have to confront it. Then there are those who use Auditing as a form of psychotherapy, those who mix it with other practice, those who drop the subject completely (the majority) and those who try to complete the unfinished Bridge (the new pioneers).


    If you talk with some of the old time Freezoners, they will tell you that they were the ones who originated “coming out” and that they are the original Independents. It used to be that if you were an “innie” you were still in the Church. If you were an “independent” you were either a Scientologist not in the Church who tried to adhere to standard tech or you were someone who felt that Scientology was just one of a number of beneficial technologies and could be used in conjunction with them or that it should be further developed as with Ron’s Org and the materials developed by Capt Bill. I always thought that the Freezone leaned a lot more in the direction of using what you can out of Scientology and also doing your own thing so to speak. That’s why I am still concerned about the Freezone adopting the new name. LRH has been through many attempts at changes in the tech, none of which were successful and is a key reason that he wrote KSW #1.

  137. It may well be that the Bridge is incomplete up past OT8, but there are guys out there who are screwing with the rest of the Bridge such as NOTs. A whole segment of Freezoners called Ron’s Org has taken things that Captain Bill Robertson claimed he telepathically received from Ron and added it into NOTS to “improve” it. To those of us who still agree that there is such a thing as standard tech, the idea of adding procedures developed by Capt Bill is completely nuts. Capt Bill was not playing with a full deck. I would say that there’s plenty of material and plenty of grade chart actions on the Bridge as we know it, that we don’t need people going out and trying to “develop” a bunch of OT levels on their own. I’d rather take my chances in waiting for LRH to show himself again, although there is a Russian guy who some of the Russian Freezone think is LRH returned. So maybe he is back now and we don’t have to wait much longer: 🙂

  138. This “Skype auditing” is a fad that is going around the Freezone. Others do the same thing. Mary Freeman is one who is doing the same thing. I don’t know who originated it, but I wish they would stop it.

  139. Yes. This is a choice. I don’t know what Ron’s Org are doing but I have heard that they deliever a standard Bridge up to OT III at least. To the possibilities I mentioned before we can add yours “Waiting that Ron comes back”!

  140. I was unaware that there were separate beliefs. I was under the impression that we all have a common belief as independents. Because there are groups within or around groups does not mean that we aren’t all working for the same purpose or goal.

    Jim is the first person to publicly address out tech specifically that I’ve seen. I re iterate that I”VE SEEN.and i’m very glad to see this. He’s spot on, knows his stuff and has my respect.

    There are disagreements in EVERY group. Doesn’t mean we aren’t working to a chieve a common goal. In Scientology procedures are quite concise and used in very specific ways with very specific results as covered in Keeping Scn Working, Tech Downgrades, and Tech Degrades PLs and HCOBs. Also i Class VIII tape one I believe. So this would be the safest and shortest way to achieve what we are all working for. At least that’s the way I see it. You are doing a lot to help Tatiana, you should be validated. I wish you a safe and wonderful journey up the Bridge.

  141. Hei, Mary do not audit over the Skype, where did you get it from? Did she audit you? Who gave you this information? Who did she audit? Bring the facts – place, time, event or take it back!
    Mary Freeman delivers the Ethics program over the Skype, that is very helpful and effective. And I know it, because she did it with me. That program was a key thing that motivated me and brought back on the Bridge. She helps hundreds of people to get back on the Bridge with that program. is a website where more data can be found, including video-interviews.
    So you, Mrs hiding under the fake name, ether bring the facts, or apologize.

  142. There’s also precedent that shoddy substitutes do also catch on. Case in point is the old est seminars. People got wins from the altered tech but were also driven into a total dead end. Some people spun in from it as there was no gradient. So, a name change may be good for public relations purposes and it makes our group bigger but there’s no disputing the fact that some of what is going on, such as some of the things that Jim mentioned i.e. the phone auditing and the injection of processes from Capt Bill into NOTS, can reflect badly on those who are working to keep the tech being delivered 100% by the book.

  143. You again, and telling lie again! Please, stop spreading the roomers about the Ron’s Orgs – you could not be any farther from the truth on this one. Where are you getting the data from? Check better your sources, do not pass forward false data, please.

    For those who read the above I will post here a link to the video that is been uploaded to youtube now, as I type it and will take about half hr more to finish uploading. Then it will be available here:

    That is a fragment from the 2011 Freezone Convention in Las Vegas, the one where Max Hauri – a leader of Ron’s Org in Europe, that established RO in Russia, answers the questions about the Standard Tech and the Tech used in the Rons Orgs.

  144. Michael I am not trying to start a conflict but you trace the roots of the Freezone to Bill Robertson but are you saying you think that those processes he added to the OT levels (NOTS) are part of standard tech? Or the OT levels that he came up with that the Ron’s Org delivers?

  145. LRH once referred to CADA as the “Communist Association of Dianetic Auditors”. I don’t think that it is a good example at all since it is clear that LRH rightly labeled them squirrels way back in the 50s.

  146. We have all been purged from the Church.

    As I wrote to someone else this morning:

    These are unusual times for people.

    I am sure all of them would prefer to be in an Org.

    To be with friends, to be training and have help and guidance.

    I think when DM has been removed, or leaves, the best thing to do would be to grant an amnesty to everyone , some real medal of honors to others.

    There is a war raging. It is the unusual I mostly see.

    So, I grant amnesty as a policy for any slights.

    The subject of Scientology is in danger.

    Normal habits and routines as we knew them are not possible for most people.


    There are positive actions we can all take within this arena that are helpful to one another.

    Whatever other’s are doing they are doing. You can always do the right thing. Get yourself up the bridge and become someone who can help others up this bridge. This will contribute to evolution .

  147. Tatiana,

    I also think that Capt. Bill was very heavily “dead-agented” by David Miscavige’s agents throughout the world of the “official” CoS because of his loyalty to LRH and his refusal to agree with the “new management”. Those dead-agent lines are still repeated and perpetuated to this day.

    After all, Capt.Bill signed off on a very detailed and accurate Comm Ev of David Miscavige in 1984:

  148. Thank you, Roy.
    Do you think we should put together the website for you? We started ones, but it did not get developed properly. Shouldn’t we give it another try? Let me know if interested.

  149. Cream and sugar? Or just black? 😀

  150. Yes, it would make sense. Somebody was and is generating the roomers that keep circulating around. I think we need to find, provide and promote the truth that should come from the trustful source. “Let sunshine disinfect!”

  151. Paolo Facchinetti

    Maybe it is a little too early to talk about the subject for the relatively recent indipendents. I was attending the first two Free Zone Covenctions in Switzeralnd in the 80s. I was there with David Mayo. Bill Robertson was not present but his group was already formed. My friend Max Hauri was there and I think at that time he was still with David Mayo and me in the AAC. The reason why the Ron’s Org are still there and maybe expanding, while the AACs are no longer there is because they promise and present a very long bridge with very many upper levels that envision an OT status at the other end on their long bridge. Me and many others didn’t choose to do Scn because it was a very interesting psychotherapy or for running engrams but because it promised spiritual freedom or “to get free from the cycle of death and rebirth” for the few of us that came from Buddhism”. So “the incomplete bridge” is still the crucial issue. Maybe you are not aware of this right now but some of you sooner or later will. Giving so much emphasis on standard tech is a bit unreal. Many of us more or less agree on how to audit the lower bridge and also part of the upper bridge, and then what to do? I have found my solution, Ron’s Orgs have their own solution, so others. I think it is inevitable and it is good, because the majority of people who did the upper bridge since late 60s until now drop the subject of Scn completely, so it is good there is someone still trying.

  152. martyrathbun09

    You noted: ” So “the incomplete bridge” is still the crucial issue. Maybe you are not aware of this right now but some of you sooner or later will. Giving so much emphasis on standard tech is a bit unreal. Many of us more or less agree on how to audit the lower bridge and also part of the upper bridge, and then what to do?” My comment: people, don’t be led astray, if you don’t do it standardly in the first place, you will wind up on Quiz street from whence this message came.

  153. Paolo Facchinetti

    Dear Marty, it was few monthes or maybe more that I was not reading your blog; since the time you wrote about David Mayo. I have been plesantly surprised on the general tone of the discussion on your blog that I find is much more open and relaxed hence more clever. I don’t pretend you agree with me. It is enough for me to see that you publish my comments and comments of other people who don’t think the same as you. This mark a big difference betewen you and your followers here in Italy. If we talk about “standard tech” I consider myself to be more standard of many of your friends, Maybe I am just a little more “open minded” ^_^

  154. Well this post has sure brought out some interesting views about Standard Tech in the field, as well as those who don’t know the difference. Very enlightening!

    In my opinion, if you would let someone (a squirrel) audit or train you on their version of Bridge, you are either 1) in agreement (a squirrel yourself), or 2) don’t have or know enough LRH Tech to know the difference. Word Clear your MU’s on Scientology and former practices.

    Standard Tech is Standard Tech.

    Me, I eventually want our Church back and at this point see no reason to join any spiritual organization outside of it. We have comm lines now and we can come together to protect our rights to use the Tech and forward that cause as need be, as in Debbie’s case for instance.

  155. Pingback: IFA wird umbenannt … | Der Treffpunkt

  156. Paolo Facchinetti

    Dear Tatiana,
    why do you say I spread rumors?? Again and again?? I just said that Ron’s Org, as fa as i know, deliever a standard bridge up to OT III, so what’s wrong with that? I am friend of Max Hauri, which kind of rumors should i spread about him??

  157. Dear Paolo, I was not talking to you. At the time I was writing my comment yours was not there yet (waiting for approval). Sorry for the misunderstanding occurred, I was addressing the “thetan1” just above your comment.

  158. Mary Freeman talks about Standard Tech on the 2010 Freezone Convention:

    Mary & Frankie Freeman’s website:

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