The FBI and Scientology Inc

Tony Ortega at the Village Voice published an interesting story on the spiking of the FBI investigation into David Miscavige, supreme leader of Scientology Inc’s human trafficking operation.

If someone wants to really understand how Scientology Inc is able to manipulate the highest levels of America’s most powerful law enforcement agency they should read the two references I suggested Tony read.

First, read Matt Taibbi’s epic story in Rolling Stone magazine, Why Isn’t Wall Street in Jail?    Taibbi’s expose of corporate corruption at the top of the US federal government is very accurate.  It has been going on for decades, and over three decades under the direction of David Miscavige I helped Scientology Inc perfect how to capitalize on that filth bucket.

Second, if you want a post-graduate level understanding read Lawrence Wright’s book The Looming Tower.   Wright was deservedly awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 2007 for this work.  His description of the political and money motivated systemic corruption of the FBI tracks on all four corners with what I observed in interfacing with them (and out-maneuvering them) over three decades.

Don’t get too worked up.  I’ve been saying it for three years and I’ll say it again. The solution to Scientology Inc is not ‘over there’; it is in the hands of Scientologists.   Independent Scientologists who take responsibility for the subject by proliferating its practice in a safe and sane manner.

177 responses to “The FBI and Scientology Inc

  1. “The solution to Scientology Inc is not ‘over there’; it is in the hands of Scientologists.”
    Thank you!

  2. Hear, Hear!

  3. Rory Medford

    Its going to take a group effort with smart individuals to right the ship.

    Marty and Mike and others are the correct people to show us the way and get back on course.

  4. Great article. Props to Tony O. and all who contributed. Sad, but trufax. FBI, flunk!

  5. Yes and I fully agree Marty. And I tell all you Scientologists out there, all you need to do is learn to audit and start auditing other people. It is way easy. What made it difficult to learn how to audit is the Golden Age of Tech and the inability to become an auditor in the Church. It is easy as pie right now to learn. I have a lot of people on my lines who are wanting auditing and some who want training. We are auditing as much as we can right now and we are going to open up a training center soon. And OSA, before you get any stupid ideas, I suggest you study up on Arizona laws, especially the due care to 2nd Amendment.

    ML Tom

  6. In my lack of black ops state of mind I feel strongly that this thing is unraveling. There is no other option. Those that know and have the burden of contributing to those years of human abuse will help extricate themselves and others from this miserable and indecent situation.

    Who best to bring down the tyrant? Those that helped build this fortress know the secret passageways to the kings chambers.

    It’s good to know you are on the good guys side.

    To all who read these blogs: every day postulate, pray, visualize the correct end result.

    All those who have abused human beings WILL be brought to justice.

    Failure is not an option.

  7. haydn (T Paine)

    Great points, Marty.

    There is another fine Rolling Stone article from Feb, 2012 which sheds some light on how our modern world works and how government agencies are influenced to act. And how, it seems, that exposing truth is now the biggest crime. Perhaps the only real crime. That’s right out of David Miscavige’s play book.

    The article is at:

  8. thewidowdenk

    I have in my possession copies of our personal income tax returns for the years 1985, 1986 and 1987. The reported income of Dr Denk for his time with LRH is decidedly false. If any person in authority, i.e. IRS/FBI is the least bit interested in investigating this matter, I may be contacted through Marty or Mike.

    I’m out today doing independent-type things. I’ll check back in later. Rest assured, this matter is entirely in my hands. Rachel

  9. True, no doubt. But isn’t it a sad indictment that an agency of the United States Department of Justice serving as the senior federal criminal investigative body can capitulate like this? By its own standards and definitions, the FBI exists for exactly this kind of purpose. A clearer case for action would be hard to find. If I were American frankly I would be ashamed.

  10. Well, if the future of Scientology is in our hands (thank goodness), then we had all better get very busy!

    – Ron Matock

  11. martyrathbun09

    Good on ya Tom.

  12. Independent Person

    Well, to all those who went forward to the FBI, they can truly say they have done all they can. It was a necessary step to exhaust all possibilities, and as disappointing as the outcome is, in terms of flows, it WILL pay off in some unexpected way, although that is difficult to see now.

    It is an unfortunate trend that governments and government agencies around the world have ceased being there to serve the people (despite existing because of taxpayers contributions), and instead, serve the monied big guns.(corporations, big business).

    The world has devolved into a network of giant conglomorates, none of whom are there to serve the best interests of the people, or the planet (corporations destroy the environment, cf, BP Oil Spill, fracking, etc).

    Marty is correct, the best way to move forward now is for the people to take their own power back. The amount of people all over the world awakening to the realities of how the power elites operate today is expanding exponentially, and the number of people simply walking away from it, and creating their own independent enterprises based on decency and integrity is encouraging.

    People are starting to realise that the “authorities” do not have the political will anymore to act in the interests of the people, and since the “authorities” are funded by taxpayers money, the “authorities” have become enterprises of theft from the people. They are no longer doing the jobs that the people are paying them to do.

    Instead of trying to fix what is broken, it is better to create a new world, where decency and integrity are restored. Education about the abuses and corruption is essential, and then offering an alternative way so that people have the choice to disengage from the corrupt and broken, IS the way forward.

    Decency and integrity are backed by life force, corruption is a death force and eats itself. The critical tipping point will be reached when enough decent people walk away from corrupt, inept and degraded government and corporate institutions, and make the world what it should be. That’s us.

    Eventually, these parasitic institutions will no longer be necessary, they will become obsolete and cease to exist.

    In a sense, what happened within the Corporation of Scientology is a microcosm of what is happening in governments and corporations the world over. And the Independent Scientologists are blazing the trail of how to walk away from the corrupt and the dead, and instead create a better world full of life, decency, and beauty.

    This is evolution.

  13. Well now we know the rest of the story as they say and frankly I am not that surprised based on the ineffectiveness of our government officials in the United States. They have all long since lost the ability to do what is right and instead do only that which will benefit them personally financially, politically or otherwise. You hit the nail right on the head again Marty.

    I respect the viewpoints of everyone involved in the investigation and have enormous gratitude for them speaking out and stepping up. It is not easy to be sure talking with the FBI. Major props to them all.

    That being said, I respectfully disagree with those that were reluctant for a raid of the International Base by the FBI.

    We live in an internet and cable news world these days. A high profile raid by the FBI of the Int Base and all the Church of Spiritual Technology bases would have drawn national and internationally media attention that could not be ignored by our elected officials. There is one thing that elected officials respond to more than money, and that is public outrage over something going on in the political official’s back yard.

    There has to be a public official willing to be out front on this for something effective to get done. Witness Senator Nick Zenophon in Australia where real reform actions are taking place.

    If the raid had happened, national newspapers, magazines as well as CNN and even Fox News would have had to cover it. The FBI would not have been able to drop it at that point.

    Also look at the history of raids in the past. It only took one informant – Michael Meisner – to get the FBI to act in the 1970s and the result was many high officials including Mary Sue Hubbard found guilty and sent to jail. Internally, it resulted in many changes in Scientology that lasted for many years.

    While many of those trapped in the hole would not cooperate with the FBI and say they were not abused, someone would crack at some point when faced with real prison time for lying to the FBI. Maybe a security guard or someone in the galley who fed these people. It would be hard for everyone to resist that type of pressure.

    And imagine what would have happened if there was photos or video tape of DM being led out in handcuffs. I think it would have tipped the scales in a big way for public Scientologists sitting on the fence deciding enough is enough.

    The media could not resist the site of Tom Cruise’s buddy and best man at his wedding being led out in handcuffs.

    Finally, I don’t think DM could help himself. The raid could have produced paperwork confirming the treatment of these staff. I’m sure he follows some security procedures, but based on the taping of his every utterance and issuing of his orders to the staff to word clear and understand, I find it impossible that something would not be found laying around in someone’s desk area or on their hard drive. Or in a personnel or ethics file.

    Too bad we live in a country where money and influence have corrupted the system so bad, that public officials are willing to look the other way and ignore what is going on.

    As you say, we just got to keep on keeping on. Again I want to thank all those who did speak with the FBI and were doing the right thing. The above is just my opinions and in no way meant to disrespect anyone.

  14. The same old LDW

    Seems that corruption at all levels of government and their incestuous relationship with wall street criminals pretty much parallels miscavige’s modus operandi. He just fits right in.

    We spend most of out time building our little theta training and processing facility. But I am also aware of just how vicious miscavige and his high-priced lawyers can get from time to time. And I feel at least a certain amount of my attention units should be devoted to getting a lot more KRC in the area of legal self-preservation. Good old Dept. 21.

    I had a thought that some of you legal beagles might weigh in on. What might happen if 500 – 1,000 “IAS” members decided to accuse miscavige of fraud and demand to have all financial records disclosed? If we had our own high-priced lawyer to push something like that forward in civil court, would there be a possibility of success?

    As far as I know I am still a member of the now defunct HASI and I am still a Founding member of the International Association of Scientologists.


  15. martyrathbun09

    Les, your Mom and Pop’s Scientology practice producing and expanding in the face of the cur dogs has done more for Scientology than most of the sensational things I have reported on this blog.

  16. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for this Mark. Always love the perspective of a great evaluator.

  17. martyrathbun09

    I’ve often used that very microcosm analogy. Scn Inc has become what it resisted.

  18. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, that is a great article too. Interesting bit about C of S and Anonymous in there. Did you notice the parallels between how Int Corps are dealing with Wiki and how Scn Inc is attempting to deal with us?

  19. haydn (T Paine)

    Yes, indeed. Telling the truth is the only real “offense”. The punishment? Any dirty trick they can bring to the fore to put pressure on the whistle blowers. Anything they can do fair and foul (mostly foul) to force them out of the game. The cutting of lines, undue influence on contacts, black propaganda, removal of resources, whisper campaigns … its almost a carbon copy.

  20. Nice piece Marty and a really good piece by Tony in the Village Voice.

    The FBI; IS, WAS and ALWAYS WILL BE, a political tool, A national police agency dedicated to political ends. How can it be anything else? It sits at the top of the national political structure, appointed and run by political interests, as a national police agency. This is the very reason for a return to local political and police control by local jurisdictions. If you want to control something, you MUST CENTRALIZE its command structure and its organizational lines. The political will of those at or near the top determine what this agency will and will not do.

    There is no good reason that the San Bernardino Sheriffs Office can’t move on this. They ARE the senior law enforcement agency for that area.

    They have also choosen NOT TO DO their jobs.

    Their political will resides with allowing torture, false imprisonment, human trafficking, beatings and brain washing just as the FBI’s has.

    This is the state of our Law enforcement agencies.

    Seems a by-pass is definitely in order as apparently even media embarrassment is insufficient to motivate them out of their inaction.

  21. Mark,

    Excellent comment. In retrospect, you may well be right. I doubt that it would have helped the FBI/DOJ to prosecute their case, but it probably would have created enough of a stir that they couldnt just quietly try to let it all disappear under the rug. But I also believe they could have had the best of both — had their investigation become public knowledge and had they gone after some of the obstruction of justice activities that occurred, they would have had people coming forward to testify AND there would have been media coverage. But it’s all water under the bridge.

    Who knows, the RCS does the craziest things. Maybe their brazen lying under oath and efforts to intimidate witnesses and who knows what else may create a scenario when some law enforcement agency decides they are no longer willing to watch the farce of human rights abuses and playing of the legal system. Miscavige is literally blowing raspberries — “Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah – you can’t get me, because I say I am a religious leader and therefore I can do anything I want.”

    Or maybe some Congressman will decide that he wants to conduct a hearing?

    Maybe a Grand Jury will be empaneled?

    Who knows.

    All I can do is follow my conscience and tell the truth.

    Eventually truth prevails over all efforts to resist it.

  22. Think there are lots of whistle blower stories where the ‘white hats’ win.

    Look at the MP Expenses Scandal in the UK a few years ago where MPs were claiming expenses they weren’t entitled to. It was a freelance reporter who got the information via FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) and approached several UK papers. For some reason, only the Daily Telegraph thought it was worth running. Since then, there have been parliamentary enquiries, police investigations and several criminal prosecutions.

    So, sometimes these investigations can seemingly come from nowhere.

    In any case, the FBI already have a lot of evidence and just need to be galvanized into action.

    Who knows. Maybe a court house in San Antonio?

  23. It’s quite disheartening to find out how the world really works. When it comes to Government corruption it seems there is always a long way to go. There is the scene in the movie Braveheart where they offer estates in England to the Scottish Nobles to get them to abandon the battle. It seems like things haven’t had to change much. It would be interesting to know how much money it would typically cost to quell an investigation of this magnitude. I would guess it ain’t cheap.

  24. Like!

  25. Mark, This is re: your comment that if the investigation had gone forward, maybe a security guard or galley personnel would have blown the whistle instead of endangering themselves by obstructing justice. I had not considered this aspect previously, but Miscavige has ensnared literally every person at the Int Base with his overts of assault and battery, false imprisonment, etc. They are all minimally percipient witnesses, and many of them are perpetrators, or accessories. He has turned virtually every single staff member at that base into a criminal (in the secular, let alone the Scientology sense of the word). Now their complicity ties them to him and his crimes. He has tainted them all, literally. How insidious that is. And the same goes for a number of OSA staff who are daily working to protect him.

  26. Marty, I am glad you are the Big Thetan That you are.
    No more wondering about some things about the scene at Int Base.
    My God, the movie rant of Jack Nicholson “The truth, You cant Handle the Truth” comes to mind.
    Your advice is spot on.

  27. Re Mark’s comment above “While many of those trapped in the hole would not cooperate with the FBI and say they were not abused, someone would crack at some point when faced with real prison time for lying to the FBI. Maybe a security guard or someone in the galley who fed these people. It would be hard for everyone to resist that type of pressure.”

    … I am somewhat reminded of Jonestown. When Congressman Ryan travelled to South America to see the People’s Temple compound there (Jonestown) at first he was convinced everything was okay. Everyone sang the praises of Jim Jones and utopian society they were creating. Then someone passed Ryan a note, and then others did. They wanted to escape.

    Is it possible that a California congress member might be inclined to visit Int to just check in with people there, given the number of complaints and concerns raised? Of course, we don’t want a repeat of any aspect of Jonestown, but there might be some people in the Hole or otherwise trapped who might take the risk of asking for an escort out.

  28. What a mess. What I really don’t want to see at this point is that after Miscavage is ousted trough the work of this and other groups and individuals for the FBI and IRS to come in and play heros. That would probably make the life of many good Staff that were mostly victims of Miscavige more miserable. It would also stunt a natural healing process of the organization that would take place once the SP is removed. If they are too afraid to go in and get the real criminal now than their involment should be restricted to getting the very few who directly enabled Miscavige until he was taken out including his criminal lawyers.

  29. Independent Person

    + 1

  30. Independent Person

    + 1 and, “Like”.

  31. This story still counts as a win. I can only imagine the brown pants, extra scotch, and trembling and crying by PoB Miscavige as he realizes just how close he was to a full-on FBI manhunt aimed not at Co$, but himself personally.

    David, this would be a good time to convert a chunk of that Co$ money to gold bars, and have TC fly you and them to a comfortable retirement in a non-extradition country where you can live quietly and anonymously and enjoy your ill-gotten gains. It would be a small price to pay to have him gone – as long as he unlocked the doors and gates on his way out.

  32. You don’t have to ‘remember’ the truth.

  33. It brings to mind the fact that any time we rely on “them” (government, priests, messiahs, whatever) to handle things for us as an automaticity, we end up being the effect of the automaticity. I guess that means we better bypass our lazy-ass habits and get busy. LOL

  34. And those “mutual out ruds” trigger the Bank. You end up with the irrationality that is so apparent to all but that restimulated and now “group bank rightness” in the face of blatant wrongnesses.

    Theta has left the buildings. Sanity is gone, and what little life remains is on a succumb bashing around trying to free from its present existence and get some frikkin’ peace.

  35. martyrathbun09

    What with recent developments, who knows whether something more effective is not already afoot? Just asking hypothetically.

  36. Yeah, some things are just not knowable….

  37. I’m with Marty on this one. Delivery of actual Scientology is the key to all of this.

    It was LRH’s answer in the face of relentless pursuit by the various sources of suppression on this planet.

  38. I’ve long held the view that the “scientology battle”, if you will, is no more or less than any other struggle you will find throughout history and the present day. The only difference is the number of people involved. Ultimately it boils down to good versus evil.

    From the FBI investigation being spiked to the Headley case being parked behind “ministerial exception”,
    this is being proved more and more as David Miscavige makes full use of all that is wrong with our current society to stay on his throne.

    This journey we are all on is, I believe, one that will involve making a difference to a lot more people than just scientologists.

  39. I agree that the problems in Scientology will not be resolved by any government. They are still borderline suppressive, if not flat-out suppressive, and should not be trusted. That is why I would not sign the petition that was going around a couple months ago.

    The last thing we need is the US government to crack down on the Church of Scientology. Among other reasons they will not distinguish between indies and the Church (a=a=a), and if Scientology loses the protection of the first amendment (for better and yes sometimes for worse) then god help us all. In my opinion the tax-exemption victory is still a huge win and will benefit us long after DM is gone. I would rather the government turn a blind eye than go all Branch Davidian on Int Base.

  40. Thanks Chris. An on-point and succinct comment.

  41. In the 60’s LRH pulled down the string to find the source behind the bs. Recently I was referred to a video entitled “Thrive”, put out by Foster Gamble, of Proctor and Gambleness.

    Of all the various “conspiracy” videos out there, this one traces back to the same source of suppression that LRH did. It lays out the whole thing in practical terms, (sans the “reptillian illuminati” scenario despite David Icke’s interview in the vid. Which by the way is an excellent exposition on the real phenomena of “group think”/R6 bank/”middle class” mores pressures, etc.).

    In addition one of the major components of the handling suggested is “withdraw support” from various bad guys. It’s got a positive, and practical solution to the global and intimate issues we see daily. (Even to the extent of one of LRH’s now cross-ordered and nuked answers of “self-sufficiency” in terms of food that was SUPPOSED to be put in at the Int Base and in it’s place is…well, buildings.)

  42. Maybe if Int was in San Francisco and not Southern California and at a time when people “questioned authority” more and politicians didn’t have to rely on getting millions of dollars in campaign contributions to win their elections.

  43. Hmmmmmm. 🙂

  44. Bless you, my brother. You’re an inspiration, and I’m proud to be your friend.

  45. Quite right MOQ.

    I wondered how much of this was restimulated during our vis a vis, face to non- face encounters?

  46. I don’t know that this situation is big enough for the FBI. But I would love it if they would play the “hero.” I don’t know that IRS action would satisfy me, nor do I think that they will open that can of worms again.

    Minimally, the Labor department, Child Protective Services, the local Health Department and local police could do much more here. I just don’t know why kids are allowed to not attend school, work in dangerous environments, etc. But there has to be that 911 call for help.

  47. Superb work Mike Rinder

  48. You’re correct in taking responsibility for the Tech and way too right about devoting attention to the legal department. Nobody has done so effectively in the US as the only ones aware, able and willing, have not done so as they gave their energy to Davey, to do it for them. Governments are not bad; they consist if individuals and if properly educated, will act to curb corporate greed. The banksters have worked more than a decennium to unleash American conditions onto Europe and not only failed but now forced to eat crow; half their leverage on Greece is already slashed and more to come.

  49. Good Points Anne Howe.
    But it is Riverside County Sherriffs, not San Bernadino.
    I will make sure the entire 600 sheriffs get to read the Tony Ortega expose.

  50. Kathy Braceland

    Funny that the FBI won’t touch the church now with all it’s obvious crimes and attrocities. But that same FBI saw it fit to raid the churches in Washington DC and Los Angeles in the ’70’s when the orgs were booming and standard tech was being applied. Auditors, Clears and OTs were being made in high volume! Talk about a reverse vector….

  51. Heartfelt thanks to Marty, Mike, John Brousseau and salute to Tony Ortega.
    This expose is worth dissemination, I am an optimist and feel it is only a matter of time when the US discovers it has its own Senator Xenophon.
    I am doing my part in sending Marty’s blog and Tony Ortega’s article here there and everywhere and I ask readers on the blog to help as well.
    Here is a link of Email addresses to every single Congressman and Senator.
    Please send the links of Marty’s blog and Tony’s essay ~~

    Here is the link to every State Senator
    (Particularly useful if a relative has someone in lock down in the Sea Org.)

  52. Very interesting article “FBI and Scientology Inc.” Thank you.
    Seems to me that they are on the same side of the game and are enslavers preventing OTs from being made.

  53. Big PLUS!!

  54. You took the “hmmm” right out of my mouth 😉

  55. martyrathbun09


  56. The last thing we need is the US government to crack down on the Church of Scientology. Among other reasons they will not distinguish between indies and the Church (a=a=a)…

    Hear, hear. My thoughts, exactly. Government is a big stick that will smash everything that remotely resembles Scientology, if given a chance. No thanks.

  57. I like your idea – thanks Karen.

  58. Interesting. The Church has been able to use the F.B.I. as a tool when they want someone’s home raided. They have given false reports to the F.B.I. as well and steered them after straw targets. The people who work at the F.B.I. are just goverment employees and transfer, get moved about, get cross ordered, dev t’ed, demoted promoted and retire. The mailman is a government employee also. It is impossible really to attack an “organization” . The F.B.I. think with groups or single targets. I can see how they would cross lines that would leave them in confusion. David Miscavige himself should be the target, but with the lack of individuals filing police reports and the rest ordered to lie and cover up, it would lead to a difficult and time consuming mission. Mostly, DM relies on his own civil rights to escape justice while violating the civil rights of others. But Scientologists do not need the F.B.I. to convince them what David Miscavige is and has done. And the majority know what a fantastic disservise he has accomplished with his trusts. I personally view my association with that organization as a marriage gone bad.

  59. Hi Marty;

    There definately would be a point where the criminality could no longer be ignored, even by the ‘Who’ in Washington. If the FBI came that far in the investigation as Tony’s article seems to indicate, then the FBI was quite serious about it, and all that investigation data still exists, though as mentioned in the Tony article it may need updating. With all that observation collected by the FBI, all those incidents and connections, maybe DM is on thin ice and doesn’t know it. Something like the Debbie fiasco could be the crack that is heard around the world. If Debbie and others who can substantiate her experiences ever do get on the stand, we may all hear that crack.

    Any idea of the ‘Who’ and ‘Why’ in Washington?


  60. Hi;

    Would DM even trouble himself with attacking cooks and stewards, and yard persons? Wouldn’t they be below his level, and someone else would have to deal with them?

  61. I think you make an *extremely* important point here about the government likely doing an A=A on anyone inside or outside of CofS if they decide to crack down.

    This could easily happen & was not something that ever crossed my mind. I hope others consider the implications of this possibility too.

    Maybe better to forego any efforts to involve government agencies & instead rely on what is being done by the Independent movement which by all indications appears to be moving towards a successful outcome.

  62. The cure for the abuse purpetrated by such as “scientology inc.” Is to get people to be independent. It actually doesn’t matter what they’re independent at (independent scientologist, christian, islamist, Jew, atheist) what matters is they are truely independent of group think and always question the motives of those who set themselves up as The Authority on a philosophy.

    LRH made much of self determinism in scientology and yet many it seemed just wanted someone to follow and LRH for what ever reason fell in to the trap of fullfilling that role, as leader, rather than inspiring true independence.

    If you think about it LRH said he was blazing a trail for others to follow. Ostencibly that means he leads and you follow BUT surely the objective would be to be where LRH was (is?); the objective would be to be equal to LRH.

    I also believe that LRH really only really provided way points so others could mark their progress, yet the journey between would be very much a personal one.

    Oh and one of LRH’s biggest tenents was not invalidating anothers’ win. How then can the church of scientology arbitrarily say people aren’t really at the level they reached so they have to go back again? Surely that is one massive invalidation.

  63. I am mid writing a book called “My God is Bigger Than Your God”. I started the book because I wanted to expose the barbaric nature of most religions and why more people have been murdered in the “name of God” than for any other reason. Witness the Crusades.

    What I found when I was doing my research is that through the years there has been a negating of the spirit; a negation of having lived before therefore living again and a negation of reincarnation. The Christians used to be huge on reincarnation but you would be hard pressed to find one who believes in life ever after. I interviewed a lot of Chrstians and not one of them believed they would live again except possibly in Heaven, but most believed there is nothing after death. Just a black nothing.

    This lead me to believe that the purpose of eroding the belief in future lives is to get humans more in the mood to commit overts because after all, there is no heaven, there is no hell and there is no future life, so live as well as you can now and screw everyone else; “there will not be any penaties after this life so live for the now”.

    So now we have a government that is made up of individuals who now have no future except for the now and their new basic purpose is to use the powers of their individual positions to amass as much money and power as they can before their demise. The government is therefore already an anarchy and will “break apart” as soon as they discover the truth in one another.

    So this is why it’s easy for Davey to pay off the Justice Department. We all throught that a government actually existed. It does not: It is individual “guns for hire”.

    ML Tom

  64. martyrathbun09

    This is nothing to get agitated about. Differentiation is well advanced. The only entity with extreme antagonism to the practice of Scientology is the corporate church of Scientology.

  65. martyrathbun09

    Yes. And my advice still holds, for most folks the best thing they can do is practice and support the practice of Scientology in a safe and sane manner.

  66. I used to know someone that said “When they come to take my guns, they’re taking em hot…” I got this image of you in a shoot-out with OSA, which I know is just absurd but something about your words is inspiring. I guess it’s the willingness to stand up for your rights against all oppressors and even put your life on the line if need be.

  67. You mean like busting Lana off the base for the alleged attempt to kill Tom Cruise with a bad prawn? Nah, Dave would never do something like that. No way.

  68. Bob, we are not talking about Miscavige attacking cooks and stewards, although I believe they are not necessarily below his level. What Mark and then myself were referring to is the fact that security guards, cooks, etc do in fact have knowledge of the Hole, or his abuses, his beatings of people. As I said, minimally they are percipient witnesses, and potentially more, i.e. accessories.

  69. Yes, it’s disappointing that the FBI abandoned the inquiry as detailed in Tony Ortega’s piece. I think the most constructive response, however, is to pick ourselves up off the floor, dust off our outfits, and figure out what sort of case could be brought that has the best chance of getting to trial. Sitting around and talking about government corruption, whether it is true or not, doesn’t help bring about the end of the corrupt CoS any sooner.

    As I understand it, the investigation here was all about human trafficking. The FBI investigates but they also have to coordinate with the Department of Justice, who owns the US Attorneys who would take the case to trial. The goal of both the FBI and the US Attorneys is to win the cases that go to trial. That not only puts bad guys in jail but a high winning percentage has a deterrent effect on others who think they might be able to get off the hook by hiring expensive lawyers.

    I looked at the “org board” for the Justice Department. I suspect that the case would have been managed by the Human Rights and Special Prosecutions (HRSP) unit. This is the newest, and possibly the smallest, team in the Criminal division, and they handle an incredibly broad mishmosh of stuff including international legal incidents. They’ll probably be involved in this sergeant who shot all those people in Afghanistan on the recent rampage. I would bet that they’re severly constrained in resources because they’re new and because of the unusual nature of the cases they try. Previous domestic human trafficking cases probably involved illegal alien smugglers that they could easily beat in court. HRSP probably doesn’t have the resources to fight a battle with a deep-pockets opponent like the CoS. And that’s the budget that counts — not the overall DoJ budget, which is indeed immense.

    I suspect that the decision to drop the case was made “at the top” of the domestic human trafficking team of the HRSP unit. It is entirely possible that the decision went above the HRSP unit within the Criminal Division. I doubt that “at the top” means Attorney General Holder or anybody in the White House. The case is simply too small relative to the other stuff the Administration is worrying about. It is usually a good idea to see if raw economics adequately explains a decision that you don’t like before looking at more emotionally loaded ones such as corruption, though corruption is indeed an issue to consider any time the government or big companies are involved.

    So if the goal is to see Miscavige spending time with a new gaggle of “special jail friends,” this look at the workings of the DOJ actually provides us with some insight into what crimes stand the best chance of seeing him making “special friends” in jail. Then we can focus on looking for and documenting those crimes.

    We should look for crimes that are tried by the DoJ unit with the most money. That’s likely to be Fraud. And their budget is likely to be buttressed by some percentage of the fines they collect; the Human Rights people probably don’t collect enough fines to help their budget, but Fraud probably more than covers its costs from fines and penalties they get.

    So the right investigation to demand is one where Miscavige is charged with fraud. And the trick is to catch him at a kind of fraud that has lots of physical evidence lying around outside the razor wire perimeter of Int Base. In other words, fraud involving the general public. Illegally shuffling money between CoS entities in violation of the IRS agreements is very serious fraud but would be hard to get tangible evidence for since all the records are inside the fence and are presumably on computers rigged with “self destruct” switches.

    And you don’t need a huge number of counts. You only need Miscavige directly tied to a small number of occurrences. The fact that the FBI has investigated the CoS recently, even though the investigation was closed, will help goad the Feds into taking action if new crimes come to light, especially if the physical evidence for the new crimes is solid. So the last investigation could help drive the Feds to act next time, if there is enough evidence for it.

    Remember, you don’t need to see Miscavige answer to all his crimes for some semblance of justice to be served. If he gets 5-10 years for a couple of very specific acts of fraud, he’ll be so busy making sure his cell mates don’t get too enthusiastic in playing “jail leapfrog” with him that he won’t have time to run the empire from his cell. And staying focused on making it easy for the Feds to launch the next investigation is more constructive than sitting around lamenting the failure of the last one.

  70. I agree with Marty that the solution lies within everyone that believes they are or can practice standard Scientology. While it may make one feel good to expose the lies and betrayal inherent within a group, especially Govt, Law enforcement etc they offer no solutions beyond punishment or getting getting rid of the ‘bad’ people. In themselves their highest achievement is possibly only creating a safer space for an unknown period of time before the next wave of corruption sets itself up.
    The common denominator of society is the individual. It is by the individual the strenght of any group ultimately relies. Scientolgy offers an individual the opportunity to change for the better, the group will only have lasting change when the individuals themselves change – novel concept hey? Scares the crap out of the vested interest or those that relish force along with power.

  71. I mis-edited something in the above. I said “It is entirely possible that the decision went above the HRSP unit within the Criminal Division.” That’s the opposite of what I meant.

    I meant to say that “While there is some chance that the decision went to the Deputy Assistant AG above the HRSP unit, it is reasonable to believe that the investigation was killed within the HRSP unit itself, potentially by the head of the unit, if it went above the lead attorney for the section dealing with domestic human trafficking.” In other words, when the FBI agents working for HRSP say that the decision “came from the top” it is wise to understand exactly what they meant, and to assume that they were talking about the head of their division. It’s not wise to assume that “from the top” equals Obama or the Attorney General. Guys that high up the food chain don’t have the time to spend on a case like this, when they’re worried about stuff like bombing Iran, getting re-elected, fixing the economy, getting re-elected, competing with China, or getting re-elected.

  72. Mr. Tom M., In the name of God or Mao, Hitler or the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. God has nothing to do with human ignorance.

  73. Tom Gallagher

    Here’s a song that reflects the impetus and heart of the Independents and the movement.

    Bear in mind, POB has already lost the war. In the mean time, fuck his battles.

    Aren’t we renegades at heart?

  74. I’d agree with you. I decided today to go back to the first article (blog) written by Marty and come to PT with it. I found this:

    “Real Scientologists reject that brand of “Scientology”, which I call “Miscavology.” Because they have organized their lives around the Church structure , Scientology schools, and long-time business ventures with other Church members, their disconnection from the the Reverse Scientology Church is very difficult and sensitive and takes thought and time. To the degree they are bombarded with attacks on their most intimate spiritual experiences and understandings, they are further driven back to the monster that suppresses them. And that is how Miscavige thrives and continues the protection racket.”

    So call DM the Government, and his Ethics the Justice department. You get the idea. Of course I post this for new people you might say.

  75. Tom Gallagher

    Beautiful Tom.

    One of my favorite ‘thought stopping’ comments to folks in my path is to ask, “What if we do come back? Thus, what kind of world are you coming back to?”

    It always seems to work.

  76. Right on, Tom. You’ve always been a straight shooter.

  77. OEC/FEBC wrote : “Among other reasons they will not distinguish between indies and the Church (a=a=a)”

    Don’t take that for granted. There are Scientology rules like “if in doubt, communicate” and “something can be done about it”. These have been proven helpful before :

    Years ago the a German intelligence agency was ordered to observe Scientology. There were also Freezoners (Scientologists independent from the ‘church’), and they didn’t want to be treated like ‘church’ scientologists.

    So the Freezoners assumed a causative viewpoint – and invited the people from that intelligence agency. They had a major exchange of communication and information (e.g. there was a Freezoner who had been deeply involved in the Guardian office, and knew how the GO would ‘handle’ things).

    After these talks the intelligence agency stated – in public ! – that the Freezoners are OK and are no threat to law and order. And that the agency would only keep an eye on the ‘church’.

  78. Random Stranger


    1) Just about everyone in the world would look up to him.

    2) He’s so good at spotting and wiping out SPs.

    3) People do so like large gold sparkling pillars on stage with a speaker.

    4) He can relay so much information verbally so quickly. People need that.

    5) He seems so sincere.

    6) Celebrities think he’s cool.

    7) He’s such a wiz at taxes.

    8) His standards are very high.

    9) He’s really good at committed community participation.

    10) He has really good forward-thinking ideas about how to change the following:

    a) gravity

    b) basic math, taxes & finance

    c) morals & human relations

    d) marriage & families

    e) diet

    f) politics & persuasion

    g) security & privacy

    h) spiritual freedom & the mind

    i) real estate management

  79. Tom Gallagher

    11) He wears really kool tailored silk thongs monogrammed “TC’s BFF”.

    12) He is the originator of extra large Burl-wood cod pieces.

  80. Why they come back to people, thetans plus bodies, but thetans asleep, in uniforms and badges bought at thrift stores pinned on themselves to look important and all knowing.

  81. “The common denominator of society is the individual.”

    Very true.

    Thus the auditor is the most important person in the world. Trained under true unaltered tech.

    An executive is a real fire ball that can do any job under him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That does not mean HIRE SOMEBODY, which in fact may mean they cannot do the the job under them, an executive. Any person who started a company from just himself to growing to 1000 people can do any job below him. That is knowledge.

  82. like

  83. Hi;

    Yes, I understand that. I was curious about their general condition, relative to those of more senior posts. If they are brutalized, then they may or may not come forward any more than any of the others. But, if they are being dismissed as being too lowly to worry about, then they may be the more sane and so may stand up when the time comes. I was just wondering … Maybe in DM’s world, the only ‘safe’ place is at the bottom, less of a threat.

    How many people are at the Int Base? I seem to recall BFG mentioned at one time there were 1000 or so. That’s a lot of witnesses! No doubt the number has dwindled considerably, but even if only a couple of hundred, that is still a night mare scenario for DM. I would assume that EVERYONE at the base must know what is happening.

  84. “1) Just about everyone in the world would look up to him.”
    It’s a PRIVATE EVENT” Ideal Orgs. It ain’t so promoted as private in the Freedom Magazine or Scientology NEWS. It’s promoted to current members as expansion. Here check it out, as compared to what you hear in the closed communications of the Scientology world.

  85. What a line: “Thanks to donations from it’s members”

    Oh,m that would be crush sell, save the planet, second mortgage your home, give me your credit card…………..who cares that LRH says don’t ever use credit. Exchange, what exchange?

  86. Back in 1989, no one really thought that within 2 years the Soviet Union would become unraveled.

    The Berlin Wall was still a formidable divider between the free world and the imprisoned world.

    But a crack was created by the Hungarians who dismantled their 150 mile fence between Hungary and Austria, allowing East Germans, on vacation in Hungary (then a communist block country) free access to Austria and then to West Germany.

    The collapse came rather quickly as hundreds, then thousands poured into Austria, then West Germany.

    Marty has said — don’t get too worked up over the failure of the FBI — there is no outside force that is going to “save” us. In fact, unless we can really say to ourselves … damn, it’s my life and it’s UP TO ME to do something to help myself, and my dynamics … we might as well just grab the remote and continue watching TV until they take us away.

    And HOW do we do this? Albert Einstein said: You cannot solve a problem with the same mind that created it.

    Instead, step beyond conceptual mind … be three feet in back of the group, planet, your boss, whatever and remember that it is the first postulate that is the free one — like Suzuki Roshi said, the great Zen master said:
    “Strictly speaking, there are no enlightened people, there is only enlightened activity.”

    Each of us radiating outwards to others our own care, recognition and acknowledgement of the fellow human being in front of us — starts to melt the solid, yet utterly false facade of the world.

    Oh so I believe.


  87. I don’t think that Pol Pot or Hitler or Stalin or Mao killed in the name of religion – but they sure killed more people than the crusades or the Inquisitions. The atom bombs (the scientific miracles that they are) at Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed more than 200,000 people – again, not for religious reasons. Scientists are good at thinking up ways of killing people. It was not a religious conservative pastor who invented the neutron bomb.

    People kill people for all kinds of reasons. Religion is only one excuse.

  88. Freedom Fighter


    I’ve seen the Thrive video, too, and highly recommend it. You can see a trailer and learn more here:

  89. Theo Sismanides

    hmmm…. government, priests, messiahs, whatever as an automaticity…? Thanks Lynne!

  90. Very interesting. I see your view as being very KSW, the part about it isn’t the government or high priests that are doing harm to Scientology, but failure to do Scientology sanely to accomplish good and thus gain a positive reputation for Scientology practitioners.

    Well, in that vein, with all the tech free on the internet, and plenty who’ve already taken your advice and are just doing it, I suppose just doing the tech and individually prospering, like LRH said in another of his Ron’s Journals, is the effective response.

    Thanks for your input to the Village Voice.

    This whole exposure and discussion is just so unprecedented in Scientology history, just amazing new info.

    I have two questions.

    1) Hypothetically, if Linda Hamel or Warren McShane covertly called and assisted the FBI to prep the FBI so the FBI was confident they could do a good raid and GET the slam dunk evidence, is there even a place where the FBI could find the evidence they need for a slam dunk case against Miscavige?

    2) But let’s say Linda or Warren go batty suddenly, and either suddenly realizes DM’s gonna get them, and let’s say they are feeling plucky and think it’s time to take DM down; could either of them do it?

    I thought the FBI pulled the plug simply because they didn’t see how even if they raided, they wouldn’t find the evidence they needed to slam dunk win.

    So my current thoughts are, is there even a way the FBI, in a best case scenario (unlikely as it is) someone of Linda or Warren’s insider daily knowledge, either of them calling the FBI, and covertly cooperating, so the FBI could do a successful raid?

    Is the evidence even there for the FBI to win a slam dunk case against Miscavige?

  91. Yes… because it *lost*.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  92. Great post John P. Great post, Marty.
    This game is definitely reaching critical mass.

    The past is over and now all we have are our postulates for the future and what we do on a daily basis to make them happen.

    I had some huge wins on L11 years ago and came up with this little trick.
    When something was really important to me, I would see it, it’s there, a done deal and then actually place it on my time track in the future. The rest was easy when I truly did this, just needed to get there.

    I see this evil being, David Misgavige reaping what he has sewn in the immediate future. Disappeared people, injured people, betrayed people, dead people, sick people, overwhelmed people, afraid people, suppressed people, invalidated people. These are all his products and his intention and actions to achieve these products will come back and haunt him in living technicolor. His future is not looking good. My two bits.

  93. branch DAVIDian? You’ve got something there. The existing group are Davidians!

  94. Your humble servant

    I believe Mike Rinder is right in saying that if the FBI raided the Int Base that all they would find is people saying they were being treated fine and Miscavige is wonderful. Really all I was interested in was having someone crash in there and free the prisoners in the hole, but such a raid might indeed be ineffective for the foregoing reason.

    I was also very put off by the idea that the FBI also wanted to raid the Northern California archives where LRH materials are being safely stored–or at least so we are told. There is every possibility that the FBI in such a raid would totally wreck the place, seizing materials they have no business seizing or any need to seize or just destroying them and possibly making a huge mess of what I hope is worthwhile project. Certainly it is one we have spent a lot of money on, and the idea of preserving Ron’s written and spoken works against possible future catastrophes makes sense to me. The FBI could just smash the whole thing without accomplishing anything actually necessary or worthwhile, so I was happy they backed off from doing that. I hope they don’t get ideas of doing it in the future.

  95. “This lead me to believe that the purpose of eroding the belief in future lives is to get humans more in the mood to commit overts because after all, there is no heaven, there is no hell and there is no future life, so live as well as you can now and screw everyone else; “there will not be any penaties after this life so live for the now”.”

    Great observation. The above is about the ne plus ultra in creating a viewpoint which adopts and embraces “no responsibility” with respect to the future beyond the immediate span of a man – it certainly removes much in the way of any (long-term) first dynamic motivation, and given the degree to which many are “stuck in the mud”, about the only others which might on the radar (even if dimly) are the second (children), and the third (country) ….. but one even wonders about those, given the degree to which “only oneness” prevails ….

    The “government” (particularly here in the US) is well down the path to creating a fairly complete dramo of “the group is all, the individual is nothing” – IOW, a police state, based on total surveillance, total control of the individual.

    As the measures to bring this about become more evident, and more immediate, with a potential to impinge directly even on the “one-timers”, there is a backlash – which facilitates the “discovery of truth” to which you refer. People come forward, they speak out. It feeds on itself.

    There were some very good thoughts about this phenomena that Julian Assange wrote on his personal website, I think just prior to forming Wikileaks. The website has since been taken down, but the following link purports to be an archive of it:

    Click to access assange-IQ.org_.pdf

    Exposing truth is the action that is getting TA – to resolve the situation, it seems to me that it is only necessary to continue doing so …. and so it is with many things ….

    “… truth is treason in the empire of lies …” – Dr. Ron Paul

  96. threefeetback

    Would not an Analysis Point be to use Debbie’s court testimony and countersuit footholds to crack wide open an Obstruction case targeted at McScabbage? Part of Ray’s multipronged agenda? Exposure IS needed. Scientology requires that such suppression be upbraided for failure to deliver. It also requires that the C of M Sheeple be freed from further suppression. A tipping point IS a valid target. The 50 acre compound that was being built for Adolf Hitler, from which to rule the world, in the Santa Monica mountains of California, and now covered in graffiti, is, JUST THIS WEEK, being scheduled for demolition: now, THAT, was a tipping point of magnitude.

  97. The shoot out would be a battle of wits with Marty facing unarmed OSA opponents…

  98. Very disappointing to read that the FBI cut off the raid on Int on directions from the top (and they were so close!), but I should have guessed as much.

    Will write my Senator and US Representative. Politicians may not read their letters/emails, but their staff do count them. Was told in my political activist days that politicians figure for every letter they receive, there are five people who think that way, but did not take the time to write. Thus if we all write, there will be a multiplied aggregate effect.

    At the minimum, one feels better, having done something.

  99. Thanks Karen. Riverside- Sorry San B.

  100. As I think about it further, the current political climate is not favorable for an FBI attack on any religious organization. We may well do better when Obama is re-elected. If the FBI moved now, the Evangelicals/Christian Right would scream “government interference with freedom of religion”. I do not think that Obama wants to give them that opening,even though the offenses in this case are gross.

  101. To Independent Person: Your article here is very true and beautifully written. Thanks for writing this. Your statements give a very positive feeling for the future; hope for non-Scientologists and Scientologists alike. I wish all Scientologists could read your comment.

    I wish Tony Ortega would publish your entire comment on the front page of his newspaper.

  102. “Eventually truth prevails over all efforts to resist it.”
    Thanks Mike.
    1. Truth is the strong position at the top of the hill.
    2. Sticking to it will unearth further out-points.
    3. Part of the formula is; “Don’t disconnect.” – Disconnection can have many forms. One way to disconnect is to generalize. It creates wrong indications to individuals and kicks in bank mechanisms. If one approached individuals, not just “the FBI” one can follow the strings. To individuals you can connect and communicate. Individuals can understand. “The FBI” cannot, because it is a generality.

  103. Grasshopper, et all…

    What links all these tragedies (religious and non religious) is the use, or corruptive use, of “the greater good”.

    Chairman Mao was revered by more humans than any other in recent history despite being responsible for the single greatest loss of human life ever (his “great leap forward” program was responsible for an estimated 45 million deaths).

    In my view it is not the question of religion versus corrupt leaders that should be studied but rather ignorance versus truth, and if you like, enlightenment.

    The real history of Mao is coming to light for millions of Chinese and they are moving towards a healthier society.

    This progress is being similarly repeated across the world (from the Arab spring to this blog).

    Human evolution happens because individual humans evolve and then help others do the same.

    These corrupt and evil leaders are far less powerful than they think they are.

    And we are far more powerful than they think we are.

    No one has power over us save that which we give them. And it is given out of ignorance.

  104. martyrathbun09


  105. Like.

  106. The CoM will be defeated by loss of $. As less and less people are joining and, internal (existing public) resources are drained there will be a point of greatly curtailed income. It will take awhile as he’ll sell of assets but, the end is clear.

    It won’t be the High Priests or the gov that takes out the Church but, internal corruption and non-delivery. As was written LONG ago…

  107. scilonschools

    “If I were American frankly I would be ashamed.”

    The problem is a Global one, not just American.
    The UK law enforcement and publically owned media (BBC), have not done much better!!
    The efforts for decades to infiltrate and invalidate Interpol (maybe for the right reasons or maybe not), is capitalised by the RCS.
    It is unity of all parties against the abuses of the RCS whether Indies, Critics Anons, free thinking journalists etc that will preval.
    Remember operation Chastise (Dam Busters) of WWII, Barns Wallaces bouncing bombs and 617 squadron against the mighty dams , though the damage was not immediately visable the dams were weakened and the self weight of the water did the rest.
    Keep dropping thiose ‘bouncing bombs’, it WILL happen!!

  108. “there is no outside force that is going to “save” us. In fact, unless we can really say to ourselves … damn, it’s my life and it’s UP TO ME to do something to help myself, and my dynamics”.
    Damn right. Corresponds to “THE WHY IS GOD” and other issues from the Data-Series.

  109. Your is right Claire. The President will never do it. As you say political reasons.

  110. Mother of Grendel

    This is off subject, but Marty/Mike/etc., I’d like to read your take on these claims. (Highest Ever stat push…!)

    The setting is that Clive Rabey is coming to LA this weekend to reg the OT 3s,4s and 5s for some new service “guaranteed” to zoom them up the Bridge. This is from the email sent to the 7s and 8s to get them to corral their OT sheep to Rabey’s event:

    E-mail from Mr. Rabey:
    I think by this time you know that last year we have had many incredible Highest Ever stats, including Highest Ever Total OTs, Highest Ever OT VII Comps, Highest Ever Solo NOTs Hours and Number Of Sessions—the list just goes on and on and is of course very good news.
    With that in mind we are launching the next activity to move to even higher ranges in the coming 12 months and as usual we are coming to LA first as you always lead the way.
    So I will be at LA Org next Friday (March 23rd 2012, 7pm at LA Org) to launch what will be the pilot for this activity.
    As a pilot I need your help on this and I need you to be in attendance! The meeting will not last longer than 1 hour. And it includes a special message to you from the Captain FSO.
    In fact I need all LA area OT VIIs and VIIIs to be there so please help me get the word out to all VIIs and VIIIs you know.
    So, see you in LA Org at 7PM, next Friday.
    Clive Rabey
    D/Captain Delivery & Exchange
    Flag Advanced Organization

  111. The same old LDW

    I watched the “Thrive” video last night. Verrrrrry interesting. That data, along with the Wikileaks article in Rolling Stone, along with the data coming out here about lack of action by the FBI…all adds up to valuable, multiple viewpoint data which is essential not only to getting the corret WHY, but zeroing in on truth and as-isness.

    This is all getting more and more interesting as more data comes out.

    Our division IV is beefing up for more delivery, especially in the training department. I’d love to see 100+ delivery units out there flourishing and prospering and having tons of fun with it. We provide a service that is invaluable to the creation of a very cool future for earth. There are a lot of theta people on this planet who want a very cool future for earth. Many of them have no clue what we have to offer. But if we do this right, they will know and will accept our help.

  112. MOG — My guess, they are going to try and put all these people onto a “pilot” of an Objectives Co-Audit as Miscavige has divined through his infinite wisdom and technical expertise that anyone who has not paid up for their OT VI and VII at FSO has “unflat” objectives. It’s perfect, they can do Objectives at Class IX rates from Level 0 auditors and the marks will be at Flag for months as fair game for IAS and Super Power vultures. Sorry, but his claims of “Highest Evers” are no doubt “Highest Ever REAL sessions” which only count in the three-swing/GAOT era. But even if not, the orders of magnitude are SOOOOO way off it isnt funny. They STILL don’t have the “magic” 10,000 on OR through OT VII and that is after 20 years. If, as they claim, there are 10 million Scientologists 😉 then less than one in every thousand makes it to OT VII. Wow, that’s quite an outpoint…. But, never-mind that. We have some more people to send back to the beginning of the Bridge and we have to get real busy….

    Are you going to attend this wondrous briefing (with a special message from the Captain FSO — that will be a doozy, no doubt a plea for money…. he doesnt know anything else)

  113. Agreed.

  114. Random Stranger


    These guys are so busy avoiding the investigation and prosecution and justice involved with the corrupt uber-rich banker/military industrial congressional complex/oil boys and protecting them they have no time to pursue something they perceive as dumb and weird as a fringe church like the Church of Scientology unless the felonies are way more blatant (obvious murder or absolute and documented proof of huge financial crimes).

    Maybe back in the 70’s they had an interest, yeah, sort of, but even then they only acted because of the breaking and entering and stealing the G.O. of the church was pulling on federal agencies. And it was before the Money Boys gained total control of the U.S. federal government. Now, the FBI’s dictated agenda is ‘chasing terrorists’.

    I’d place my money on the idea they have no interest in Operation Boogeyman Miscavige. It just won’t pay off for them.

  115. Corruption is found at the US federal level. But it’s arguably even worse at the state level. Check out this report released in the last few days that details and rates the extent of corruption in 50 US state governments: “50 States and No Winners” at

    Revolution is in the air in 2012. Integrity in government is NOT a partisan or nationalist issue. Citizens everywhere are demanding greater transparency and cleaner hands from those who govern. Citizens eventually get really ticked off when their inalienable rights to fair government of the people, by the people, for the people are trampled.


  116. Hey Marty,

    You may already have this data but if you REALLY want to get the right why for who controls the US and every other “government” and handle, here is a suggested line of investigation:

    Also remember LRH’s command channels eval. Scn leadership has been under non stop attack and subversion by FBI, CIA, MI6, Mossad, etc. for over 60 years – no matter who has been at the helm.

    Reference Third Party Law – who benefits from Scientologists fighting in public?

  117. Martin
    You rhetorically asked… “But isn’t it a sad indictment that an agency of the United States Department of Justice serving as the senior federal criminal investigative body can capitulate like this?”

    But we need look no further than “our own back yard” ( I am referring to what still calls itself “The Church Of Scientology”.)

    It would seem that a very similar thing is well entrenched within the Church, and has been developing for over thirty years.

    I am talking about the Ethics and Justice section of Scientology, and the Management bodies that were supposed to manage Scientology for the “good of mankind”. Scientology is a hotbed of corruption and suppression streaming, unrestrained down from “the top” (one David Miscavige), and this was supposed to be the “most ethical organization on the planet.” And you have the Sea Org… What a farce it is today… It is the very antithesis of its mandate to bring ethics and sanity to planet earth.

    Talk about “capitulation”… Every person who is still aligned with the current Church, has knowingly or unknowingly capitulated to the corruption, suppression, and pure evil that flows virtually unrestricted from the office of COB, through OSA, RTC, CMO, and the Ethics and Justice departments, right down into every “official” Scientology organization and group.

    “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.”

    I believe that we, as a group of dedicated Scientologists, can actually make this (Scientology, the Philosophy and its technologies,) the vehicle for social and spiritual advancement that L. Ron Hubbard envisioned.

    But corruption will be brought down by honesty, courage, and hard work, not by some other corrupt agency.

    Eric S

  118. There’s a Flag truck which has been parked outside Seattle Idle Morgue for about a month straight now. I can’t imagine any tour lasting that long.


  119. Well, they need that it goes worst to do a raid, as it is now, they would just buy trouble. But I would not trust them either, but maybe I have an anti state frame of mind.

    Now, DM is destroying scientology, and at some time in the past it was also the business of groups like the FBI. So? I wouldn’t like to go into conspiracy theory…

    Let’s keep a simple stable datum. DM is an authoritarian personality, this subject has been very well described in “an essay on management” and similars issues. Well, we have to bring scientologists to understand this to the point where DM is fired. It’s actually a race. We have to fire him before the state does. If the Germans would have succeed to get rid of Hitler before the end of the war, Germany would not have been destroyed.

    To any church scientologists reading this blog : to dismiss DM is the safest solution. Just put a board there and continue to deliver and gradiently cancel destructives orders and pgm. We need an evolution, not a revolution… but maybe I’m dreaming and war’s drums are rolling!

  120. The same old LDW

    Having just completed L 12 and routing on to the Original OT IV, I can state unequivocally that the suppression of the original OT levels is a very well kept, dirty little secret within dave’s cult. OT IV is totally friggin amazing (and I’m only two hours into it). Finishing the NOTs band and then tackling this OT level with full hatting on it is just spectacular.

    I have some news for those hanging around waiting for the church to get corrected so they can jump back in…The best tech terminals with the most KRC and the cleanest hands are NOT in there. Dave’s monopoly is dead and, for better or for worse, so is his cult.


  121. Sinar,
    If judging by the complete snarling withdrawal of the “guards” Danny and Kevin, I’d say we saw them squarely, smack-dab, and ookily in the dramo. Can’t reach/can’t withdraw. That’s a nasty state of mind.

  122. Dean,
    I can see you’re skirting the outer edges of what Scn is all about. Keep at it. ALL will be revealed 🙂

    (Mind, there are “humps”. Just keep going. It’s got a very, very smooth ride up the line.)

  123. Random Stranger

    aka Church of American Science

    Office of the Chair Man of the Bored


    Highest Ever Atrocious Violence & Enturbulation Network

    A routine Eval on The Golden Age of Violence and Intimidation has revealed it to be a screaming success. You may be interested in the following facts:

    1) The more I hit people, the more they’d scream

    2) The increased screaming stat graph parallels the graph of Number of Targets Completed on my vital programs.

    3) If my programs get completed, we’ll save the planet.

    Therefore, all members of the Church, staff and public alike, are hereby deputized as Ambassadors of Violence and Intimidation. A full hat write-up and program details package will be published and available for mandatory purchase by the end of the week.

    Your H.E.A.V.E.N. Package will contain:

    A) Specific Learned Techniques

    B) Program Targets

    C) Quotas

    D) Org Board

    E) PR Series Brush-up Study Order

    F) Contest Rules

    G) Bond and Waiver

    H) Training Video

    I) Compliance Reports

    Let’s work shoulder to shoulder with full responsibility to bring about the completion of this vital program. The future of every man, woman and child on the planet depends on what you do, here and now, with this.


    David Miscavige
    C.O.B., Church of S. T.
    C of American Science
    C of S
    TC Fan Club

  124. One of five,
    Getting a person to recognize other beings, then progress up to spotting a problem with them, the as-isness of the source of problems and abe to make them literally vanish, freeing up the being’s past reaches, and withdrawals and regaining the power to emanate, clearing their confusions and “solutions” and regaining the ability to be, do, have with the component parts of being and theta -ARC, and then resolving the dilemmas and fixed solutions to the silly game of an immortal being seeking to survive – all of these stages of recovered awareness go a LONG way to freeing up theta the solver and with that any situation can be tackled and resolved with so many capable persons plying whatever trade they are interested in.

    It is apparent to me at least, all of the above are more manifest as days go by, thanks to the hope and breath of life that springs eternal.

  125. The C of S Objectives program is really biting, right?
    Marty from Mosey’s computer

  126. John P do you have an email address?

  127. Larry, is that you again? Get your head out of Dave’s ass and come up to PT.

  128. What would be the product of an FBI raid on the C of S HQ?

    Would’nt the press then have C of S versus US Govt. as their battleground “story”.

    Would that reposition a PR war that the C of S is not winning?

    How much better is it to have Scientologist versus Scientologist as the ongoing battle?

    Reference LRH’s Third Party Law and Sun Tzu – Art of War.

  129. I’m new here.
    Who are you?

  130. +1

  131. Tom,
    It was the Synod of Constantinople around 300 AD that determined that ‘life after death’ be deemed heresy and expunged from the Bible. It was at that point that the concept of heaven and hell was established. This gave the church greater control over the populous “do this for the church and you will go to heaven, don’t do this and you will go to hell.”

  132. Interesting point! The public may only hear “human trafficking” and think that independent Scientology is part of the same game. It could give the government carte blanche to crackdown on anything related to Scientology like that dangerous “Auditing” thing they do. I personally think there is an organized group of individuals on this planet with great influence who do not want people make the gains available from auditing. I don’t want to come off as being paranoid because I’ve seen some extremes along those lines as well. Just pointing out that the FBI may have their own agenda as dictated by their puppet masters. It’s a KRC thing or a “be careful what you wish for” thing.

  133. This concept should sound ‘vaguely’ familiar to those threatened in the Co$ for not increasing their patronage to the IA$.

  134. NObody important. If you really are new and want to post here, I suggest you do some reading of earlier posts first so you know the audience you are writing to. This isnt a forum for Rotchschild/World Bank/NWO conspiracy theorists.

  135. Got it – thanks.

    I did look around – more to do.

    Wat is your take on this? It seems relevant to this blog.

    Conspiracy theory?

  136. tonydephillips

    T.C. fan club!! Lol!

  137. I get your point – makes sense, esp. after reading Han’s post (below) re the German intelligence agency being able to differentiate.

  138. tonydephillips

    I heard there is a CMO mission there. They have told some Kool aid drinkers that they know some public have been mis handled and they have been
    “fixing”things. Lol…

  139. You mean David Miscavige doesn’t have access to opinion swaying aamounts of money and isn’t hell bent on expanding his NWO, aka Miscavige’s Clear Planet*?

    *MCP – one where he has the power and money to do anything he wants without fear and everyone in power lends him their ear and everyone else bows down to him in complete subjugation.

    I’ve always said to the NWO theorists that there is unlikely to be a central cabal behind a single conspiracy but that doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of small conspiracies, such as Miscavige working the church of scientology magic to get the FBI investigation spiked, that are part of a single large problem, that is people in power tend to screw the rest of us over.

    But you’re correct Mike this isn’t the forum for fanciful NWO, world bank conspiracy theories, but you can see how the reality of this subject and The Looming Tower fits such notions.

    While there may be no central cabal the church of scientology is still a small but significant part of “the problem”.

  140. Yes, our religion must be driven back on the right path. But i dare to doubt if a movement of “Independent Scientologists,” is the right thing to do. If there is no central organization, who should then ensure that the tech. will be delivered standardly. In a few years there will be so many hundreds or thousands of Scientologies, as there are hundreds or thousands of independents. A central organization is needed and so it was brought on the way by Ron to keep the tech. pure. Debbie Cook in my opinion, is so far the most rational being in the “DM critic” scene, because she only wants to release our church of this parasite just to change our Church how it was intended by Ron.

    Greetings from Google translator

  141. FBI needs more evidence.

  142. There is a problem with dismissing David Miscavige, he is literally the key to the vault that contains everything necessary to maintaining the physical presence of the church of scientology (the brinks and mortar not any ideology).

    I expect if you did manage to send him packing with his tail between his legs the church of scientology money would evaporate.

    Marty and Mike may have a better idea than me but from wading through all sorts of documentation I’ve managed to acquire I’ve seen how the church of scientology has successfully side stepped any form of official auditing.

    This means the only people who know how much real cash they have is Miscavige and anyone he shares that with and he seems to have split up the info so only he has a full picture, everyone else is only aware of their little bit.

    The best guess I have is around $8 billion in cash reserves based on what little I’ve come across in cash flow and anecdotal reports of cash reserves from various compartmentalised entities. Could be as low as 2 and as high as $16 billion US.

    It looks like if the church of scientology were to liquidate the buildings, idle morgues, would be cannon fodder but even then there are strings of shell holding companies; on a number of occassions when an idle morgue is announced as purchased the reality is the directors of the holding company that purchased it before the church of scientology announced an official interest are all that change from off the shelf directors to scientologists, there is no transfer of deeds; they controlled the building before they started fund raising to “purchase” it – arguably fraud but try getting the authorities interested. RTC may have some contractual ownership but it’s not reflected in the registered ownerships.

    Having spent over 8 years now looking at the church of scientology structure the best analogy is a fractal, the closer you look at it the more detail comes out.

  143. Thank you for your encouragement Jim, much appreciated.

  144. I like the sound of My God is Bigger than Your God. Wish I’d thought of the title. 😉

  145. Dean

    Here are a few concepts for you to play with…

    Scientology has a concept represented by the word (letter) “Q”.
    Basically here is how L. Ron Hubbard defined “Q”.

    “It can be defined this way: it is the level from which we are now viewing which is a common denominator to all experience which we can now view. The highest level from which we’re operating.” (PDC 6)

    So here are the first “Q”s, as stated in 1952.

    Q 1. The common denominator of all life impulses is self-determinism.
    Q 2. Self-determinism may be defined as the location of matter and energy in space and time, as well as a creation of time and space in which to locate matter and energy.

    As “Q”s of Scientology, these define the point of awareness and operation from which all of Scientology was developed. They are the common denominator and goal behind all of the processes developed since that time by L. Ron Hubbard.

    Rehabilitating the self-determinism of a being is the entire thrust of Scientology as developed by L. Ron Hubbard. Anything that is not aligned with these Qs is, in fact, not aligned with Scientology.

    Eric S

  146. martyrathbun09

    No, worse – severe neurosis.

  147. Religion is a tool that can be abused. It is a means to control people.

    I see the point of the abuse of “the greater good” but behind that is a religion that individuals abuse to define what is good; good becomes about the preservation of the group that formed around the religion, which is why people commit attrocities in the name of the group.

    Scientology expounds individual thinking BUT still is abused to result in group think. Group think occurs when individuals submit to the authority of another and there in lies the flaw of all religions.

    A religion becomes a religion when it ceases to inspire and starts to dictate; philosophies inspire. The principal difference being religions have authority figures who dictate meaning and religions claim “one true” authority. Scientology oddly does both.

    Scientology allows for other religions but inevitably points to the flaws within them, namely they’re dictatorial as oppose to inspirational.

    That said scientology strandles the divide between inspirational and dictatorial. You indies take it as inspirational while the church of scientology dictates.

    As people who take it as inspirational you are free to take from scientology the best it has to offer and not get bogged down in the dogma built around it by the church of scientology. You can equally take inspiration from other philosophies too.

    IMHO the world would be a better place without religion but what I believe is not that people should abandon beliefs rather they should treat them as inspirational philosophies rather than religions.

  148. Sorry if I am a pain in the butt but apparently you were in a high position at the C of S and handled such matters once so that is why I asked.

    From what I have read on your blog so far, this seems relevant to the issues raised here and, if true, would seem to explain current US Govt. inaction?

    Is this B.S. or is there anything to this data? Would appreciate an answer one way or another but I will bug out if I can’t contribute anything constructive to the discussion

    **** Federal Cover-Up Of Scientology In Military Intel ****
    From Elizabeth Walker

  149. “This lead me to believe that the purpose of eroding the belief in future lives is to get humans more in the mood to commit overts because after all, there is no heaven, there is no hell and there is no future life, so live as well as you can now and screw everyone else; “there will not be any penaties after this life so live for the now”.”

    There are undoubtedly people who “live for the now” and “screw everyone else”. David Miscavige is a case in point.

    I personally have no belief in any divine consequences for my actions. I am however motivated to do what I believe is right by my fellow human and animals.

    I therefore believe that there is more to individual morality than an individuals’ beliefs. There is a quote I strongly believe in:

    Good people do good things. Bad people do bad things. But to get good people to do bad things you need a religion” see previous comment on abuse of religion.

  150. Agreed. They need slamdunk evidence.

    Plus I think they might need, in this internet age, a Linda Hamel or Warren McShane type of existing cooperating person on the inside.

    I’m for Linda Hamel or Warren McShane getting the urge and desire to covertly call and help the FBI prep for an FBI raid that gets the good evidence the FBI needs so prosecutors have a slam dunk case.

  151. martyrathbun09

    It is riddled with unsupported conclusions stated as fact.

  152. I believe the one thing the Anonymous movement has help you guys do is differentiate between the church of scientology and scientology. This in turn opens the door for prosecuting abuse while divorcing it from belief.

    Obviously the actions of Marty and Mike in various forums have forwarded this in places like Germany but the seed was Anonymous when they decided the abuses were the issue rather than the more esoteric beliefs. Now its a case of “so what” regarding the beliefs, like other religions don’t have their own set of esoteric beliefs.

    Marty, I was party to early phone comms with you from Anonymous. There was a concern that you were opportunistically positioning yourself as successor to David Miscavige (to pick up the mantle and carry on the abuse so to speak); those comms were to sound you out. I’ve decided your heart is in the right place. I believe your increased openness on this forum futher illustrates this.

  153. I think you are looking at “religion” narrowly. All religion is is a belief in a super-natural being or beings. You can have that with or without the dogma. I say that a belief in super-natural (i.e., non-material) existence is a good thing. However, we can both agree that anyone feeding off that belief is a very bad thing, because religious belief is very core to a person’s existence (even if they are an atheist).

    Scientology is an odd mix, as you noted. Our goal is freed beings. Our way to get there requires precision. Therefore, we have very precise drills and training to get someone trained to be able to help another be free. Hence, the “Keeping Scientology Working” PL and others. You are free to feel and believe what you want, but if you are training into becoming an auditor, the idea is not to cuss around and just learn it.

    This is not as dogmatic as it sounds. When you get past the starting courses, you have a body of core, or stable, data under your belt. You should already have reality on the Reactive Mind, man as a spiritual being, and some other basic tenets of Scientology. The academy builds on it, and the idea is to know what you know, and not get hung up on re-re-re-hashing things already known.

    Where Miscavige and the CofM have warped this is that they are being dictatorial, as you say. Miscavige is the one calling Ron’s writings “scriptures”. What hogwash! Scientology is not about being dictatorial. But, we expect people to know it, or not know it, and if they know it, to apply it correctly.

    Just like any other body of knowledge, when you get really, really good at it, then you can start improvising. Miscavige never figured that out (although Ron did).

  154. Thank you for sharing this Eric. Much appreciated. I am a big believer in self deterninism. I do believe the essence of scientology is self determinism based on my own study outside the church of scientology..

    As I always say, and this is in no way intended to be derogatory to scientology, it is one thing to take inspiration from a philosophy and another to follow a religion.

  155. Random Stranger


    1) Chinese Bankers?

    2) The Marcabians?

    3) The Secret U.S. Federal Government?

    4) The Brotherhood of the Snake?

    5) The Illuminati?

    6) The Knights of Templar?

    7) The Rockefellers?

    8) The Reg Sharpe Foundation?

    9) Captain Bill Robertson’s Astral Projection?

    10) The Brian Livingston Estate?

    11) Bill Gates?

    12) Bernie Madoff?

    13) David Miscavige’s Satanic Dog?

    14) The Mole People Who Live in the Center of the Earth?

    15) Wavy Gravy?

    16) Tom Cruise?

    17) Anonymous?

    18) That shifty IRS guy?

    19) The Reptilians?

    20) The Lensmen?

  156. Perhaps I’m being too narrow but perhaps also we’re looking at a symantic argument.

    I distinguish religion from philosophy by saying that religion dictates while philosophy inspires.

    All religions IMHO have philosophical backgrounds but for me the metamorphasis of a philosophy in to a religion is when authority figures set up a church which has followers, as opposed to free thinkers, who the church leaders dictate to.

    LRH started out with a self help philosophy. It was intended to help people improve themselves. It metamorphasised in to a religion and that’s where the problems really started IMHO.

    As some have noted LRH was not perfect, like all people he made mistakes. IMHO the greatest dis-service to such as LRH is to blndly follow because that is not what he was about. Sure he wanted to blaze a trail to help others, like all philosophers, but he didn’t IMHO want y’all blindly following what someone else claimed were his teachings.

    Did you know that LRH’s grandson has a lot of respect for LRH but a lot of distained for what he refers to as the sheep. Source, Anonymous interview.

  157. If there is no central organization, who should then ensure that the tech. will be delivered standardly. In a few years there will be so many hundreds or thousands of Scientologies, as there are hundreds or thousands of independents.

    I see it the other way around. Having one central organization as the sole Keeper of The One Standard Tech, has proven to be the most dangerous way to keep the tech pure, as it only takes a single control point (i.e., dictator) to corrupt the tech through direct order.

    On the other hand, if The One Standard Tech is widely distributed amongst many, many separate bodies, the chances of it being lost or corrupted for the multitudes are greatly diminished. If there were twenty – thirty – even forty Independent Scientology churches operating in a single city, how fast do you think the word would get around if one of them were to begin squirreling the tech?

    I believe that Scientology needs to go in the direction of the Christian church – that is, any group of like-minded people can freely set up their own local church, and begin ministering to their own community. Those who do not get results, will also not grow, due to the public knowing that other local churches are delivering the promised results.

    Do you see how this model is self-correcting?

  158. PS. I believe we agree, we just use different words. Your comments are much appreciated.

  159. martyrathbun09

    I am with you Ronnie on no central authority. The market will correct it.

  160. I have to agree with this. A Senator “visiting” gold base or where ever might help some to escape but an FBI raid would be too confrontational.

    That said I don’t think Miscavige would do a Jonestown mass suicide; I believe all the holies will be too shocked to take advantage and so will claim all is well and the FBI will leave empty handed and embarrassed.

    A Senator wandering around offering freedom and asking if all is okay might have more chance of success being less confrontational.

  161. It is up to Americans to rid themselves of the dogma of the evangelical right wing “christians”.

    The evangelical christians only really gained influence in the 1950’s when the christians were evangilicalised as a political movement to vote as the church dictated; prior to this most christians abstained from politics.

    The problem with the USA is common to a number of countries, apathy. The fact most middle of the road people don’t bother to get politically involved because it “makes no difference” as the special interest groups have it all sown up.

    The fact is most special interest groups are vocal minorities. Hence why every vote counts.

    Even after voting it is important to lobby your beliefs even if you didn’t vote the person in. Never under estimate a well argued argument and the weight of the public opinion.

    Never be afraid to call fowl either. One of the biggest issues for modern politicians is the Internet. They dispair at the ease at which information flows, they hate how qUickly they can be exposed,

    The Internet facilitates the independent scientolgist movement in a way that couldn’t happen 10 years ago. You should all fight to preserve its independence and free speech.

  162. Clear as a Ronnie Bell to me!

  163. Yeah, well the Government probably has a bigger hard-on for Anonymous than they will ever have for a bunch pesky independent Scientologists. As an Anonymous guy, you may get a taste of what I’m talking about e.g. some Anonymous guy hacks a government computer and they crack down on the entire group. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Anonymous isn’t already infiltrated by some agents, watch yourself if you hear some guy trying to talk others into something violent like blowing something up, chances are that will be your “agent provocateur.” You may or may not know that in 1963 the FDA Raided the C of S and confiscated 100’s of E-Meters (claiming they were being used as medical devices) and in numerous countries the practice of Scientology at has been made illegal (at various times for various reasons.)

    I’m saying don’t trust the government (I know that’s a generality) but I don’t know what else to call them. When you see Government action that doesn’t add up they’re probably the guys behind it. Like Amish farmers getting arrested for selling raw milk or parents being threatened with losing their kids for not wanting to load them up with vaccines, or being forced to put their kids on Ritalin. There is an agenda at work, as long as you don’t make waves and watch “American Idol” and are a Republican complaining about Democrats or a Democrat Complaining about Republicans you’re okay.

  164. And let me preface my earlier comments by adding that I am an Army vet with an Expeditionary medal, I’m staunchly pro-American, I think we have the best government in the world and I think America is the only country where something like Scientology could develop without being immediately stamped out of existance.

    With that said, I would trust the FBI or any other government entity to reform Scientology about as much as I would trust the APA. I’ll give you another example besides anonymous: remember the Janet Jackson boob incident at the Superbowl a few years back? Ask anyone in the broadcast media how that worked out for them. The FCC didn’t crack down on just Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake, or just NBC or the NFL, no they cracked down on all broadcast media and made their lives a living hell. Right down to the local morning radio DJ trying to crack a few jokes. Suddenly work became very dangerous. They brought the hammer far in excess to what the crime would seemed to have required; totally a=a=a, and totally out gradient ethics action.

    Like Marty said, this gets fixed by the rank and file or it doesn’t get fixed.

  165. Mother of Grendel

    Thanks for the answer, Mike. TRs and Objs does sound like a likely “answer.” And highest ever REAL sessions – I would never have imagined that – unbelievable.
    It’s amazing how many “solutions” PoB has come up with for “whys” that never actually existed!
    As for the briefing (wondrous briefing – love it!) itself, although I’m tempted to attend just to satisfy my curiosity, I don’t think my stomach could handle it.

  166. Thank you, Mark.

  167. 13) David Miscavige’s Satanic Dog?
    That’s a good one! LOL

  168. Sorry Marty, but this isn´t exactly a LRH date, is it ?

  169. martyrathbun09

    I suppose you meant “datum.” Have no idea why you are apologizing.

  170. 🙂

  171. yes of course, I meant “datum”. I had not used the Google Translator ….i just wanted to be polite, that was the reason for that “apologizing”, maybe it’s not common in English to express in this way.

  172. Yes – Ron was very clear that he was not to be considered a “god” or infallible. The history of Scientology itself shows that he was fallible – but honest enough to learn from it. The one example that comes to mind readily is “creative processing.” There are others.

  173. Tory Christman

    We’re doing a picket in April called “Reconnect” in honor of ALL the parents who have lost kids to the C of $, and Kids who have lost parents to this insidious organization, too. (Not to mention husbands and wives, business partners etc) If you can come, please do. If not–please pass on the link about it. I love you all 🙂 Tory/Magoo

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