The Psychosis of David Miscavige


For those who have not lived and worked around David Miscavige, it is sometimes hard to believe the magnitude of Miscavige’s psychosis. The following Blackberry message threads between Miscavige and “Lou” (Miscavige’s Communicator) on one side and Tommy Davis and Mike Rinder on the other end of the line gives a taste of what it’s like within the bizarre, insane world of Miscavige.

First, realize that Lou types Blackberry messages (dictation style as Miscavige dictates) and puts them in her own name so as to cover Miscavige’s ass (the same policy applies to despatches). You will see in later messages we post that Lou sometimes pendulum swings between first and third person when referring to Miscavige when she is frantically trying to keep up with his dictation.

The first thread below starts at 8:35 Miscavige’s time and ends at 8:40 Miscavige’s time. In it, he addresses Tommy severely denigrating Mike Rinder who at the time is in the same physical location as Tommy and is actually cc’d on the messages. CICS means Counter Intentioned Cock Sucker. Mfing means Mother Fucking.

——Original Message——

From: Lou

To: Tommy Davis

To: Mike Rinder

Sent: Mar 23, 2007 8:35 PM

Subject: Re: Msg

You are answering and driving? Okay – you just gained a notch on him. He’s the passenger and you have more hands to answer. Make sure he knows what the acronym CICS means as that’s exactly what he’s proving by event REFUSING to answer a comm!

——Original Message——

From: Thomas Davis

To: Lou

To: Mike R

Sent: Mar 23, 2007 6:39 PM

Subject: Re: Msg

Yes sir. He knows what cics means and he is getting this answer to you immediately.

——Original Message——

From: Lou

To: Tommy Davis

To: Mike Rinder

Sent: Mar 23, 2007 8:40 PM

Subject: Re: Msg

A) he’s gtng the message to me when he wants after 10 MFing nudges. B) CICS – the term was originated when the first DNA of a slug was scene by the first sloth.

The “refusing to answer a comm” referred to is Mike Rinder attempting to comply to Miscavige’s demand that he write a lengthy csw (completed staff work) on a blackberry while riding in a car, being constantly interrupted by Miscavige phone calls and Blackberry messages.

After this series of messages, there is a phone call between Miscavige on the one end and Tommy and Mike on the other.

The next message from Miscavige is to Mike Rinder, who at the time is still in the car with Tommy. The message is sent seventeen minutes after the thread above – and even fewer minutes after the phone call – where Miscavige severely rebukes and denigrates Mike to Tommy. In the message below you can see Miscavige seventeen minutes later reversing the pecking order rebuking Mike for not handling Tommy’s “treason”. Miscavige refers to the intervening phone call in the message. YS means You Suck.

From: Lou

To: Mike R

Cc: Tommy

Sent: Mar 23, 2007 8:57 PM

Subject: Re:

Thsank you. Devt. E-mail not included and sounds like a brush off. He told you that you could make this the final nail in his coffin. It appears you only plan on asserting it is (the final nauil in his coffin) as opposed to drafting a spectacular written e-mail that is escape proof. Just giving your typical “beyond the beyond” doesn’t cut it and nevr has. Its like the unoriginal OSA mantra of “nothing could be further from the truth”. It needs to be an e-mail that has him and BBC puckered as being in an untennable position. It doesn’t appear you’ve spent any time doing that. Not one specific either on how you plan on handling the treason on tommy caving in as regards the boss. And finally you have just brushed off the cycle on BBC and didn’t sway you’d even worked out the questions for BBC if they let you in. The Qs would have to be on point and even phrased like the abusive questions are by sweeny. We have no idea what he’s been asking and the “do you still beat your wife” was an example of how the questions should be phrased and not what the question would be. What question could be posed toi BBC that would be framed like Sweenys but as regards BBCs handling of this show. You just brush off everything and should instead be working out brilliants handlings that are full homework abd handle the hell out of, just like he does everytime. In essence this isw your usual wilco without a single specific. Saying you wrote an email is like saying you “handled it”. That’s why he hung up. He was the only one giving any specific linbes and ideas and you 2 were just axk axk ack and he had no ides if what je was saying was accurate as he hasn’t been there. You were more than willing for him to go on and on as long as you didn’t have to originate anything. YS! And have him hat you on the L button as you keep taking hin off as an info. Do you realize everyone of my mssgs are longer than yours. You really are just sp aren’t you? I wqaited to get this crap? I can’t even believe it. You just can’t work or do can you? YS YS YS YS YS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ask Dan Koon, Amy Scobee, Jeff Hawkins, Steve Hall, Marc Headley, Claire Headley, Bruce Hines, or any number of other people who have worked around Miscavige. This is standard operating procedure and could have been recorded at any hour of any given day.

257 responses to “The Psychosis of David Miscavige

  1. Laurisse Stuckenbrock would be utterly incapable of originating any type of comm even remotely like this. There is no way she was the source of these messages. I have seen hundreds and hundreds of dispatches written to people at Int that were of exactly this same tone and they were not signed “Lou.” They were signed “COB.”

  2. What DM never realized is that after awhile, the recipient simply tunes it out. It becomes a monotone entheta and ceases to have any impact. Those reading this type of stuff from the leader of Scientology may be shocked, but after a hundred or two it goes flatter than flat and then it is purely ho-fucking-hum.

  3. Fellow Traveller

    Bat Shit. The comm. The originator. The logic. It’s bat shit.
    Unbelievable, meaning oh so difficult to confront. And that is CONFRONT, not react to.

    ΘTater: I’m gonna need another torch.

    Bruce Pratt

  4. Pingback: Tweets that mention The Psychosis of David Miscavige | Moving On Up a Little Higher --

  5. iPhone text message to Miscavige from LRH:

    To: Ex-Camera Boy
    From: Founder


  6. These quotes say alot to me about the man:

    “CICS – the term was originated when the first DNA of a slug was scene by the first sloth.”

    “and the “do you still beat your wife” was an example of how the questions should be phrased and not what the question would be.”

    “Do you realize everyone of my mssgs are longer than yours. ”

    If you two have some time please contact me if you are wiling to help an ongoing project(8months or so now) in reference to the financial database and mapping. I sent a comment to McClaughry but no response from her at this time.

  7. Technically and organizationally, Miscavige has done more to destroy the Church of Scientology than any Government agency, than all Government agencies COMBINED.

    His lack of technical training and his CREATION of David Miscavige TECHNOLOGY has been disastrous, if not catastrophic for the church.

    His lack of Organizational skills (He is not an OEC/FEBC graduate) but a thug that bullies, beats, punches, uses extreme vulgarity and drug gang street language (M-Fing, C*@ck-SU%$@cking all day long, giving anti-gay racial slurs to Tops EXECS and is a complete Embarrassment to any entity leave alone an entity calling itself a Church.

    So it is not surprising to read the result of Scientology’s popularity as a religion. (With David Miscavige running the show “At the Helm” for some 26 years,) Scientology surveyed as a religion 2 years ago by Gallup-POLL found, on international survey that Scientology is below ATHEISM is popularity.
    PLEASE Click here ~~

  8. Tony DePhillips

    What struck me about this message besides the obvious entheta was this:
    How about handling what is REALLY going on with the church instead of all this pretend bullshit and robotic handling?
    DM I say to you if you are so smart and know how to handle things so frigging brilliantly then why are things in such a mess? Have you ever looked at yourself?? Maybe it is something YOU are doing wrong genius!!

    You seem to be one of the last ones to get it.

    WE here all know that you are a total failure at leading Scientology. WE KNOW…DO YOU GET THAT?? Y.I.POS. I will let you figure that one out…

  9. Alex Braverman

    What I have come away with after reading this post is the following:
    1. David Miscavige is such an eloquent speaker when on stage or camera, utilizing a professional speech writer.
    2. David Miscavige is like a 7th grader, stark raving mad, while messaging his top church officials, candidly using his own words.

    David’s personal communications speak volumes about his inner self and what he really is. David Miscavige’s behavior is VERY similar to what I see here:

    As always, ‘thanks for the insights that help plant the seeds so that someday soon the planet can truly understand the truth about David Miscavige.


  10. Yep, that’s Miscavige. Totally psychotic, nearly unintelligible. Can you imagine having to “answer” something like this? How do you answer a psychotic?

    Note that Miscavige has perfected the art of being completely clueless and ineffective while pretending to be effective and in control. It really is an art. It involves a lot of threats and insults and abuse, to show you are “in charge,” and a lot of assertions of how effective you are, while doing nothing. If you strip all that verbiage out, the message says one thing, “give me the plan.” Last time I looked, it was an executive’s job to plan, not to badger his juniors to give him a plan. But then Miscavige couldn’t plan a one-car funeral.

  11. What’s hilarious is that he offers not one solution. YS YS YS but no handle.

    Irrespective of what we think of the product, Miss Cabbage provides nothing but carping criticisms of those who’ve been assigned to handle the sit.

    As if the fact that his emails are longer than theirs means anything other than he’s got diarrhea of the mouth and can’t communicate without reams of inval and eval.

    This guy could’ve sat for the portrait of THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY

    It’s actually astonishing that anything ever gets done at INT. (Not that much actually does get done with all the COB C/I on the lines.)

    The amusing thing about SPs when you’re not PTS to them is just how small them and their little games are.

  12. how small they* and their little games are

  13. Marty, I assume that the messages have been copied exactly as they arrived – including the typos. Not that the comm would be easier to understand without them. What surprised me (again) is how much of that “style” has filtered down to Cont levels – my specific reference point is EU with Walter “at the helm”. It’s entheta-driven miscaviged disorganization. Karen#1 found yet another great info (see link under her comment – do check it out if you haven’t yet).

    Anybody – me included – having anything to do with him on the line (even though through other via’s) KNOWS the insanity: constant interruption, hyper-rush-no-time-to-answer (in response to “him”) mixed with are-we-still-supposed-to-be-doing-what-he-said (waiting for “his” reply – could be anything from hours, to days, to weeks to … never).

    You would think that SO members were in the loop as to “what’s coming” way before the church public found out, wouldn’t you? After all, SO members were the ones to execute what HMTOAODM* planned. In EU it became an “understood” (even Walter mentioned it in staff meetings) that the next event will “reveal” which way we were supposed to be going. Keep everyone in the dark as to what they are supposed to be doing and then make them as wrong as you possibly can for not already having prepared for it or done so. Naturally, there is absolutely no planning involved in what the SO is doing. It really is just a hectic and frantic effort to please “him”. Instead of good old-fashioned Jeff-Hawkins marketing the latest and greatest marketing efforts are crush regging and phone bombardments of exhausted on-liners that become very inventive in finding an “acceptable truth” (in this case: a false pretense) to not attend an event and how not to be reachable. Oh, and for stat purposes, send out meaningless “promo” by e-mail (i.e. think in “future event stats” – for, there MUST be a stat we CAN make go up).

    Pathetic! If it wasn’t that damaging and sick!

    *HMTOAODM = His Majesty The One And Only David Miscavige (no, Davy, not every abbreviation contains obscenities only – but how could you have figured that one out. 🙂

  14. Sue Wilhere tells the St. Pete Times ::

    David Miscavige IS SCIENTOLOGY.

    Here’s another article on the web of the 10 MOST SINISTER ORGANIZATIONS on Planet Earth.

    These articles, in the main, depict the PERCEPTION, in the mind of the Public, of how Scientology is viewed.

    Church of Scientology is #5 ~~ considered more sinister than terrorist group Hezbollah and the State of North Korea

    Click here ~~~

  15. OK, so THAT’S what 50,000 monkeys typing on 50,000 Blackberries for 50,000 years came up with. David Miscavige.

  16. The comm should be ignored. Firstly it is entheta per LRH admin dictionary definition “irrational or confused or destructive thought, enturbulated thought (How to Live Though an Executive p 120). Secondly, there is no clear order, no specific to comply to and no product named to be gotten. There isn’t even a plan or project target to be completed. Just insane rambling. Nothing to duplicate, no affinity wanted and therefore the intention is NOT to increase any understandings which in any way assist the forward progress of Scientology in the world.

    As a staff member this shows Treason or Confusion on post by the originator. What about the management reference on never put entheta on long distance comm lines. It can only be handled with live comm in person. THAT is what LRH said should be done. (sorry guys, don’t have the exact reference at hand but I am sure many reading this know what I am talking about here.)

    This is obviously not from Lou, the communicator, as that post only gets compliance to the seniors orders. The communicator does not order. The communications above clearly show how there is no one at the helm. The theta has left the building. Only the mest shell remains.

  17. one of those who see

    God. My thoughts. HOW DARE HE speak to Mike that way. How dare he treat our beloved execs like he has and does. Invalidating bastard. He must removed from post. People should not be subject to this entheta.
    Then at some point in the future I hope he can go free too.
    He is going to have a hell of an amends project.

  18. Dan,

    Exactly. You are dead on this. Bing!

    This post is perfect for 2 days before Thanksgiving.

  19. I went numb to DM’s threats and entheta about half way through this reading, similar to what Joe Howard states eventually happens, above.

    Seems like he just hits Bullbait, full-on, all the time.


    He would be much more effective if he kissed ass and got all sweet for a little while, then let loose with a tirade from time to time.

    But, it also sounds like he’s way to stupid and fucked in the head to contemplate the above sentence, let alone act on it successfully.

  20. Being a wholetrack SP/implanter and DB is a nasty combo.

    OSA: Look – don´t listen to that Circuit case.

  21. He’s not a mentalist – just mental.

  22. Tony DePhillips

    DM is a BULLY.

    People need to wake up and stand up to this bully.

    Shout him down at his next event. Write a letter and disconnect from him. The more people do the faster we will get rid of this guy and be able to move on to bigger and better things.

  23. Fuck you. How’s that for blunt. Sorry Marty. Just venting.

  24. The scary thing is the amount of ‘noise’ in this person’s universe/mind,it’s just stream of conciousness (or unconciousness, rather) drivel.
    This is the communication of someone who is fighting. Not even fighting SOMETHING or SOMEONE; just fighting – ATTACK, ATTACK,ATTACK!

    I want to be charitable and say ,’maybe he was having a bad day’ but this is the guy ‘at the helm’ for heaven’s sake! There is absolutely no stillness in this man’s universe. Has he ever been exterior, even for a moment? To be completely in PT, no thoughts, no attachment, no case in restimulation, with a sense of quiet completely unrelated to sound and a sense of stillness unrelated to motion. Has he had this ? I don’t think so.

    Hate Scientology?
    Sure he does,
    he doesn’t even GET it.

  25. My first impression is that I am glad I left working for that idiotic, non sequitur psych0 before the advent of the cell phone and blackberry. We had pagers which was bad enough.

    Then on second thought, although it is never pleasant to get this type of message from Miscavige, at least you aren’t having to stand in the same room as he rants at you, not knowing what to say, since anything you say can and will make him even more upset and possibly physically attack you.

    So while technology has changed for the better over the years, it is plain to see that Miscavige has never changed.

  26. That poll makes me laugh, cry, roll my eyes, as layers of time and lies peel off. Thanks, M6

  27. “Technically and organizationally, Miscavige has done more to destroy the Church of Scientology than any Government agency, than all Government agencies COMBINED.”

    Yep the little CICS in charge is Scientology’s answer to Aldrich Ames!

    Hey Dave.


  28. Jeff,

    I loved the “one car funeral” line.

    Mind if I steal it?

  29. I couldn’t understand it. It didn’t make any sense to me.

  30. Wow!
    Thanks Marty. I think my confront of evil is getting better – I didn’t have to puke after reading this!
    I saw somewhat similar behavior in PAC & Int Exec visits. Now I see where it was coming from – the contagion of aberation. I simply thought DM was very busy fixing the Int execs and would at some point fix PAC.

  31. Moderator – please post the imbed code to the video noted in this post. If the post is too long feel free to remove the lyrics. I would like the actual video to show on your blog not just the link to it if possible. SA
    === ===

    This post has impinged upon me in many ways. The easiest was to see the insanity in it. That was not all that struck home to me. I had to admire and give thanks that there were people like Mike (as well as Marty and all of the others – named or even as yet unknown) that were there to attempt to stand up for me and the true legacy and gift of LRH. These are the front line people who bore the brunt of this insanity. I am sure this is but a sample of the insanity which many have dealt with for years. Heber, and others, still are trying to survive their sanity in this environment. My heart goes out to those with no means to speak up, to disagree, or to change the hand they have currently been dealt.

    The above quoted text communication was to Mike. Mike stood in my place at this time and acted in one sense as a shield. This continues with this blog and the truth communicated. I was merely misdirected, mishandled with out tech or suppressed by squirrel tech given as though LRH true tech. But most of this was indirectly from DM via layers of staff. I did not have to deal with direct in your face suppression from DM as Mike and others have. I was still free and able to look and find data such as provided by this blog and others. This allows all of us to see our own confusions or insanities, as-is these, get straight with ourselves and who we really are and get on with our life – on the bridge or not as the case may be.

    Without Mike, Marty, and the others who fought the fire at its source we would barely stand any chance. Just as in session — auditor plus pc is greater than the bank. We can see the caliber of beings, the ability to confront evil, the willingness to continue the game in spite of all, that the people who post on this blog, read this blog and act on information in this blog are. Therefore we can look forward to success in this effort and more sanity in the future. There is no cut and run to be found here – we stand our ground and hold our clean heart and sane goals and purposes. I say this for myself, my spouse, my children and my grandchildren. I say this for all of my friends. I believe I can also say this for the thousands of others who read here now or in the future.

    LO posting yesterday really made my thoughts move even faster. Not by what he said but as a result of seeing the flow of others wins and realizations. This has been a continuing action for me over months but speeding more quickly with tons of charge blowing and major realizations throughout. There is a bridge to be followed and crossed. There is something that can be done about this scene. We can in our own ways move more to the true beings we are, our potentials, our dreams and follow the original postulates we made in this journey. We started walking along this bridge and when we spot the failed purposes and see the truth and correct conditions and facts we rehabilitate the failed purpose and stops blow.

    All who stand and communicate are to be acknowledged. Some suffered more pain than others. None of us are angels. The insanity must stop. No more of the hidden motto of “the beatings will continue until morale improves”. I sincerely believe and know to be true that true, unmodified LRH tech, is the real gift to mankind. Whether or not we are worthy of it may still need to be determined. What we do with what we know and how we help when we can will affect this determination.

    I really want to acknowledge and thank sincerely Mike, Marty and the others who persevered through the insanity – who walked the valley of death – and still have the willingness to help. This cycle has brought tears to my eyes and joy and serenity to my heart. It has polished me to a shining thetan who can proudly stand my viewpoint. I know I will make it. I know the gains and revitalization I have gone through. I count you as truly my friends. Not in lieu of LRH but in addition to him as part of his team to help our fellow man and help bring sanity to this planet and end the kind of suppression witnessed at this time (the same purpose you and I originally joined the SO for.) I will shake your hand and look in you the eye in the future but for now I write – Thank you!!

    The following video and song really seemed to fit in this case.

    Clannad – A Bridge lyrics

    Time came around and I was in need
    You came by my side, for all my troubles to ease
    You collected my heart, healing the past
    You’ll never lay down , and I can count on you

    We all speak well of a bridge that carries us over
    Over safe
    The art of compromise has surely been our greatest strength
    Our greatest strength

    When someone pretends to circle your friend
    And finds, he’s betraying you ‘fore it all ends
    A bittersweet chain, that’ll always remain
    So don’t let illusions get the better of you

    We all speak well of a bridge that carries us over
    Over safe
    The art of compromise has surely been our greatest strength
    Our greatest strength

    Love is to share where words can’t compare
    Love is desire, so full of fire

    We all speak well of a bridge that carries us over
    Over safe
    The art of compromise has surely been our greatest strength
    Our greatest strength

    We all speak well of a bridge that carries us over
    Over safe
    The art of compromise has surely been our greatest strength
    Our greatest strength
    speak well of a bridge that carries us over
    Over safe
    The art of compromise has surely been our greatest strength
    Our greatest strength

    Love is to share where words can’t compare
    Love is desire, so full of fire

    We all speak well of a bridge that carries us over
    Over safe
    The art of compromise has surely been our greatest strength
    Our greatest strength

    We all speak well of a bridge that carries us over
    Over safe
    The art of compromise has surely been our greatest strength
    Our greatest strength

  32. and then one has to M9 wordclear that?
    I had a timeperiod in my life I had been sucking in psychos all the time. First thing I learned is that handling those is at least for me not possible at all. Usually I am very strong and cannot be pushed out of present time. But one time I had to drive in the army a major. This one others talked about that he is no human being. As I had been driving he ordered me to turn right. I sayed no, I turn left. (never would do it on a much lower grade in the army. But had been that way towards him for whatever reason. Maybe I wanted to play around with him a bit) After that me still driving (my body had been doing that task) I did see nothing only blackness and did not realize it. A soldier behind my seat recognized it and woke me up. Never ever happend before or after. Since then I knew that I have to be more careful regarding psychos. I can imagine a little bit what happens if someone would say “no Sir” to DM.

  33. True! He over promoted himself and is now terrified of being found out. Quite common outside the COS too, hidden behind bluster and bravado

  34. The blatant, wild nuttiness of David Miscavige’s verbal communication is easy to see.
    This insane communication transposes in his looney leadership.

    Daily, David Miscavige is losing ground. People are waking up and he is being exposed. Many people within his circle are “on to him”.
    The end for his rein of suppression is inevitable.

    Will he bail? Will he blow to South America with embezzled funds?
    Will he try to blow-up himself and everyone near him as he self destructs?

  35. Mwahahaha. That guy never fails to crack me up.

    I’m gay and this guy has a phallic fixation that beats myself and any of my friends after a few drinks on a month when no one’s getting any. Hysterical. Maybe he should just “get it out of his system”.

    Not a very dignified demeanour for a “religious leader” talking so abusively. What happened to teaching by example?

  36. I agree with Alex. He acts like a 7th grader / 12-year old. He stopped maturing at that age and is stuck in that mentality. Problem is that he is now an adult. He has an adult job and adult responsibilities – but he is handleing his life like a child. The temper tantrums when things do not go his way. The comparisons of “do you realize everyone of my mssgs are longer than yours”. Aka “mine is bigger”.

    He expects others to handle his matters and solve his probems (like a child would expect of Mon and Dad). He knows he is too immature to handle the real world and refuses to do so. When his staff does not get the results he wants he throws a temper tantrum-regardless of how unrealistic his expectations may be. Yet he does nothing himself but complain about what others are doing and proclaim that he could do much better.

    It seems like he is afraid to come out from the “protection” and face the real adult world. Apparently he really freaks out about the possibility of being subjected to media interviews, legal proceedings, or other occurrences outside his usual sphere of protection/control.

    He acts out physically with violence instead of reacting as a mature adult. This too is like a child. It seems like he stopped growing when he was a 12 or 13 year old.

  37. Sorry — I read this post and couldn’t understand it, even with the definitions of the abbreviations provided. So, I read the comments. Then I thought I obviously missed something in the post, so I re-read it very carefully. Then I re-read the comments. I give up! The COB “communications” are simply not understandable and defy any attempt on my part to understand them. H

  38. Bat shit. Oh yeah, bat shit.

    Confronting it is confronting the embarrassment that this meaningless drivel is. It’s daunting in the magnitude of sheer idiocy. This guy is a ‘toon’. If he wasn’t propped up by others, he’d be nothing.

    With his definition of ‘power’ being others listen, then I’d say we’ve pretty much heard what he has to say. Two pieces of cat litter clicking together generate more power.

  39. Fu dog,
    YOU get it.

  40. Jeff, you nailed it. He has no plan so he covers it up by having a fit like a 6-year old. Actually, that’s an unintended insult to all the 6-year olds that I know. He’s just a stupid, vulgar little mafia thug. Actually, that’s also an insult to mafia thugs too. I’ll have to think of something else….

  41. Perfect duplication H.

  42. Me either Sara. And I was there (though not for much longer!). It is interesting to see his unfiltered comm isnt much different in end product to his Shermanspeak(tm) pronouncements. THey are all gussied up with big words, endless sentences that begin with “Given that…”, “Again…”, “Let’s not forget” and sprinkled with over-the-top superlatives and southbound trains going downhill — BUT, the end result is the same. Hot air and confusion. Period.

  43. Tony — The only time he looks at himself is in the mirror to ensure his hair is stuck perfectly in place. Self-introspection is not something he has time for. Too busy finding all the SPs that are constantly trying to destroy him. They are coming from every direction, 24/7, so I am sure you can understand, it doesnt leave time for much else…

  44. Jeff — As is usual with your insightful comments, this is about as good a sum up of the essence of “Miscavige the Manager” as I have ever seen.

  45. DM’s phallic issue comes down to SIZE. I’m afraid there is nothing he can do about that.

  46. Hallelujah-

    What a coincidence. I followed the exact same method you used and came away with the exact same conclusion.

    I’ll add Miscavige is a psychotic goon.

  47. He did stop maturing at about 12 or 13 – right around the time he joined the SO it would seem.
    I’ve seen this type of thing happen to kids that are victims of TBI (brain injury) and also people who start using drugs and alcohol at a young age – their emotional maturity is stunted.
    Joining the SO at such a young age meant suddenly he never had to weigh and make typical life decisions for himself (all were made for him), his education was cut off around the 7th grade level and instead he was given texts that he believed were the answers to everything, then began working for the man who created these text (LRH).
    If you don’t think giving a 17 year old immense power over the lives of others, then the ego boost of working for someone he believes is the most brilliant man in the universe – who took a shine to him, and the total lack of a real formal education – isn’t a perfect formula for creating a monster you are crazy.
    I would like to add that I think one of the major problems with the SO (and particularly CMO) is handing over immense power and decision making responsibilities to mere children. (The stories are endless of the teenage CMO members sending people to the RFP, destroying relationships by decree or filling coin slots, etc…) Giving that kind of power to children who are incapable of understanding its ramifications, but get addicted to the rush of having power and dominion over others, is a sure way to create lots of little DM’s. Sad to say the ones with some humanity will bail or somehow get away – but those like DM that have a sadistic bent will rise in the ranks and become the leaders.

  48. Theo Sismanides

    Thanks Marty and Mike,

    Is this guy the successor of L. Ron Hubbard?

    Even writing the above sentence I feel shame.

    There is NO comparison. This guy is an imposter, not a successor of LRH.

    He has no clue of Admin, Ethics and obviously any T-t-t-ech…

    He is so pathetic! So, he is left with some robots now in his big palace! Oh, how lonely you must feel Dave! I knew you since 1991 that I did my sec check from up lines. Something wrong with YOU, man! We’ll take care of it and just dump ya, pretty soon, you will be unmocked as the successor of LRH. God forgive me for the comparison!

  49. Congratulations Davey, you made it to the top 10 of most deadly terrorist organizations world wide. What? ….not happy with that….wanna be #1?

  50. Sapere Aude — Thanks for the wise comment. Also, I totally love the video and the lyrics. Since I couldn’t make any sense of the COB “communications,” I’ve at least had the good fortune of these. Hallelujah!!

  51. DM is the KING OF HOT AIR!!!

  52. I agree with CL’s and Mirna’s insightful comments above. David Miscavige is arrested emotionally, intellectually and spiritually.

    Now, if we could just help him get arrested by the FBI!

    Just Me

  53. Comes down to the one thing Miscavige has no compunction to do: follow policy, be a true manager, a true leader of the church.

  54. The song A Bridge by Clannad was fitting for me in so so many ways. All of us are on the real bridge from unaware, unknowing and partially asleep and on some weird autopilot to knowing aware causative being creating and living on our dynamics.

    We have to first find the bridge to get us back on the main highway bridge we have fallen or been pushed off of. This is like a Repair/Progress Program (HCOB 12, 14 and 30 June 1970) – from Tech Dictionary “takes the case from where it has falsely gotten to on the class chart and gets off the overwhelm with light processes. … program to eradicate case mishandling by current life or auditing errors.” Then we do a Return/Advance program per same references and from Tech Dictionary “the major actions to be undertaken to get the case back on the class chart from whatever head had erroneously gotten to on it. … It gets the preclear or pre-OT up to where he should be.”

    Thus MOVING ON UP A LITTLE HIGHER and we the participant and reader. To me sort of like first confront it really is this insane and the head of the current structure is truly insane and as such no real grade chart gains are currently available in the DM church. Then, almost like like assist processes we gain new stable datums, analyze previously un-analyzed data, decisions and actions. Get oriented to where we really are. Work up from their with help and acknowledgment the the team here.

    We will find ourselves where we really should be at the present moment on the true LRH bridge to total freedom. Then we can walk that bridge. We can do it with our personal understandings, personal values and the ability to think for ourselves. We will have our self determinism intact.

    Self-Determinism from the Tech Dictionary “is that state of being where in the individual can or cannot be controlled by his environment according to his own choice. In that state the individual has self-confidence in his control of the material universe and the organisms within it along every dynamic. He is confident about any and all abilities or talents he may possess. He is confident in his interpersonal relationships. He reasons but does not need to react.” (from Advanced Procedures and Axioms).

    Lets just keep moving on up a little higher!

  55. How does Lou do it? How can she stand listening to this stuff and have to frantically take this dictation 24/7? How can she stand that much entheta going thru her?! Is she a rock now?


    ML Tom

  57. “You just brush off everything and should instead be working out brilliants handlings that are full homework and handle the hell out of..”

    That sounds just like almost all teenage CMO girls. Always wondered where they got that beingness from. It’s kind of like a combination of mailing it in and not believing your comm will get across.

  58. Mirna, that’s an interesting analysis. I didn’t know he joined the SO at that age . Did the rest of the family join with him or was he separated from them?
    What does “CMO” stand for ? – never been in Scientology so I sometimes need clarification. Thanks

  59. and this communicates what exactly! Completely nuts! DM take yourself out!

  60. mirna — So true! Lack of experiential track leads to a world of hurt. H

  61. Recommend the movie “Downfall” about the final days of Hitler. There is an uncanny resemblance between these two fascist leaders.

  62. DM could also stand for David Machiavelli.

    For those who have no idea as to what kind of a man this was in the Middle Ages, do a bit of Googling – there’s plenty on him. His ideas are covered in his book “The Prince”.

    Obviously, Dumb Miss Cabbage isn’t following LRH.

    However, he might have studied this Machiavelli guy as he follows his philosophy to a T.

    Here are a few excerpts from Wikipedia, some of them *very* slightly edited to use familiar words, as to how Machiavelli “thinks” – he writes in the form of “advices to a prince”:

    ## put down powerful people.

    ## do not allow others to gain reputation.

    ## The main concern for a prince should be war, or the preparation thereof, not books.

    ## An example of how to “properly” go about a problem with rebels: First, the prince gives full powers to a cruel man to calm the rebels by force and then has this cruel man decapitated and his body placed in the main square in order to demonstrate to the public it was not the prince who had been cruel.

    ## One should avoid ruling via juniors if one wishes to be able to “ascend” to absolute rule quickly and safely.

    ## Machiavelli notes that a prince is praised for keeping his word. However, he also notes that a prince is also praised for the “illusion of being reliable in keeping his word”. A prince, therefore, should only keep his word when it suits his purposes, but do his utmost to maintain the ILLUSION that he does keep his word and that he is reliable in that regard.

    ## Machiavelli studied the way people lived and aimed to inform leaders how they should rule and even how they themselves should live. For example, Machiavelli denies that living virtuously necessarily leads to happiness. And Machiavelli viewed misery as one of the vices that enables a prince to rule. Machiavelli stated that it would be best to be both loved and feared. But since the two rarely come together, anyone compelled to choose will find greater security in being feared than in being loved. In much of Machiavelli’s work, it seems that the ruler must adopt unsavory policies for the sake of the continuance of his regime.

    Any similarities? It’s “pink legs” all over the place and Responsibility of Leaders, covered on this blog earlier, “pervertinprated” by David Machiavelli.

  63. Dan – I think he DOES realize that people become numb to his crap because of two things:

    (1) He once played me a Bart Simpson clip where the teacher was telling Bart a bunch of stuff and all Bart could hear was “blah, blah, blah, blah”. He said that’s all we hear when he’s talking to us. (I had to suppress laughing my ass off, because it was soooooo true – but instead, I said “Oh, no Sir. We listen to everything you say!)

    (2) He said — many times — that the reason he was “having to” be so harsh with us (the Int Executives at the time) was because we were all “hardened criminals” and you’d practically have to set off an atom bomb to “impinge”. He said in any other place he goes away from Int, the slightest reprimand makes the whole crew hop to. But at Int, we were so used to the abuse that it had to be upped, and upped, and increased even more….

    See, it’s quite logical – to a mad man.

  64. I had the exact same thought and commented along this line before.

  65. Karen,
    I’ve been meaning to ask someone about this: Was there not a stipulation made somewhere that Exec Strata were all supposed to be trained up to FEBC/Class VIII or XII within a certian time frame? And if so, I take it that this never occured and has since gone “by the boards?”

    I’d love to talk to an Intellectual Arts attorney about copyright and trademark infringement, and see if there were some way to sue RTC for not only NOT doing their job, but for actually bastardizing what they are supposed to be taking care of. Lame example, but if Charlie Brown ever did get to kick the ball, I would think Charles Shultz would want someone shot.

    /scratches head

  66. I’m so over it, at this point.

    Wish he would just hurry up and implode and get it over with already.

  67. From HCOB 5 February 1966:

    “The SP persuaded or caused the pc to believe the environment was dangerous and that it was always dangerous and so made the pc pull in and occupy less space and reach less.

    When the SP is really located and indicated the pc feels this impulse not to reach diminish and so his space opens up.

    The difference between a safe environment and a dangerous environment is only that a person is willing to reach and expand in a safe environment and reaches less and contracts in a dangerous environment.

    An SP wants the other person to reach less. Sometimes this is done by forcing the person to reach into danger and get hurt so that the person will thereafter reach less.

    The SP wants smaller, less powerful beings. The SP thinks that if another became powerful that one would attack the SP.

    The SP is totally insecure and is battling constantly in covert ways to make others less powerful and less able.”

    There is no Scientology in the “Church of Scientology”.

  68. I need eyebleach now !

  69. 1986? Maybe 1987. The year that Miscavige fell into confusion and overwhelm as a being and never recovered. Just a guess. The crash of the stats about 3-5 years reflect it, and they never recovered either.

    The man is a walking ball of “glee of insanity”.

  70. Don’t think lack of education and maturity level explains a psychosis.

    Look at the Dalai Lama who also at a young ago studied exclusively religious texts, didn’t have much formal education, but is a peaceful, modest man.

  71. Yes, this is normal Miscavige. If you look, you will notice that even Miscavige’s communication follows the pattern of a rock slam, the e-meter needle phenomena — wildly slashing back and forth — that indicates an evil purpose coming at you. Correspondingly, Miscavige’s focus slams back and forth wildly, slashing out, switching subjects, randomly banging in jabs and spitting venom. He awards Tommy meaningless points for driving and answering, as if this was an (un)reality TV show. Now he’s nattering to one about the other; then suddenly reverses to natter about the other to the one. While interrupting incessantly he berates Mike for “refusing” to answer instantly with a full proposal he’s only given minutes to write; then, when Mike answers, Miscavige berates him for not writing a better, longer dispatch that used more Miscavige own tactics like asking loaded questions.

    This is routine, run-of-the-mill, DM when he’s not too agitated. When he really gets agitated, his Rock Slam takes over his actual arms, too. He’s a rock and everything around him slams wildly and crazily.


  72. Marty & Mike,

    It’s truly great that you guys make this material available for all to see.

    It really shows the hissy-fit tirade Miscavige has been throwing for all these years and depicts it so well it is easy to see how his psychosis has infested and permeated the entire C of S.

    This attitude is the same type of attitude used by the remnants of Scientology management and pushed down the line. Though none are quite as outpointy and nuts as Miscavige himself, believe me, I got the same type of response from management execs when querying whether something was per LRH policy. The response was: “It’s per Chairman Miscavige you CI bleep bleep bleep”. Many times it was an awkward, stony silence and burning, resentful look that said exactly the same thing. But whatever it was it was the same statement of “freeking unbelievable!” with undecipherable follow up response to anything sane, standard, normal or decent.

    This is the exact attitude org staffs are confronted with if they don’t buy their multi-million dollar building over night – even though it’s a totally suppressive, move the mountain target for orgs and utterly destructive to their survival.

    This is the attitude public are confronted with if they don’t cough up even more money for the IAS and other crazy schemes or they don’t get down on one knee and display fealty to the all knowing, all powerful Miscavige and his out-tech riddled outpourings.

    Miscavige has treated his subordinates like serfs for so long he’s turned the whole C of S into his private wacked-out serfdom, a crazy slave state which now truly reflects its leader’s lack of sanity and his war like disposition.

    Realizing I no longer have to live with that crap trumps any other form of Thanksgiving!

    So a very happy Thanksgiving to you guys and a happy Thanksgiving to all!

  73. She’s saving the planet, of course.

    Or, more accurately, she’s saving the savior of the planet from all the raving SPs out to stop him!

    (And she may be in love with him; or what passes for love at INT)

  74. Yes, his parents joined Scientology.
    “CMO” stands for “Commodore Messenger Organization”. Basically they were lots of young kids that Hubbard used for relaying communication to his countless orgs/offices all over the world. In his later days when he was in hiding, members of the CMO were controlling virtually all of Hubbard’s communication lines to the outside world. That’s how Miscavige, being one of them, was able to grab power.

  75. This was always the impression I had when listening to him. I kept aking myself what the hell does he mean ?
    Nicely said

  76. In 2003 while I was ED Birmingham Org an order came from RTC UK that all my staff had to watch a video where COB briefs OTs at the maiden voyage event on his “Ideal Org Strategy”. The RTC Rep UK came to the org and stood at the back of the room while all staff watched COB’s video three times. The RTC Rep had to take pictures for compliance.

    I came away after watching the video and thought “I don’t get it. I don’t duplicate COB and what he wants us to do.” I then went and read HCO PL The Ideal Org. I thought “I get what LRH is saying here but I don’t get what COB is saying in his video. Streams of orders then came to the org to fund raise. Haydn and I ignored the orders.

    In June 2005 I left the UK to return to the Sea Org in the US. In autumn 2005 I went on post as the Sea Org Programs Chief. I was ordered by the RTC Rep ILO to read all the dispatches COB had written regarding the Sea Org Orgs. It took me two days. I came away confused. They made no sense and were non sequitur and mostly ranted about how much money he wanted the Sea Org Orgs to send to his coffers.

    I then secretly read everything I could of what LRH wrote regarding the Sea Org Orgs. Made total sense and I could understand it. I still came away though wondering “Is there something wrong with me that I can not understand what COB writes?”

    I didn’t realize at the time it was the ramblings of a non-sequitur alcoholic, the work of a mad man. But I did realize that something was seriously wrong.

  77. Jim, I came across some leaked video footage of DM using his secret mouthwash to clear his throat before he began dictating to Lou his next incomprehensible rant………………

  78. Look here, very nicely shown:

  79. and here a speech of him:

  80. martyrathbun09

    Brilliant Steve. It is the physcial universe manifestation of the RS. The RSing head of RS.

  81. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Tom. You get Scientology.

  82. martyrathbun09

    Amy, you are right on the money. I wonder if anyone he showed the clip to did not immediately associate DM with the insane, babbling teacher whom Bart tuned out.

  83. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for this. Your summary describes the atmosphere and operating basis of International RS HQ to a tee.

  84. Haydn,

    Thanks. Interesting you bring up the “It’s per Chairman Miscavige…” The euphemism “It’s Command Intention” became common currency in the CofS world — direct translation: COB Order. That used to mean “LRH Intention” but now means Miscavige intention. And I now see in the latest glossy photos of the Super Power building that Dear Leader’s opulent offices are described as “Department 21 offices.” Last I checked Dept 21 is Source. But that’s now being redefined too: Source = COB.

  85. The first thing I thought when reading this post is that DM is nuts. His comm cycle is that of a babbling lunatic even taking into consideration Lou frantically trying to dictate, he’s still nuts.

  86. Fellow Traveller

    Damn it Hayden. You got me all teary eyed with your thanks.

    I will borry some momentum to thank all those who have and continue to illuminate the dark mass (and I am thinking that dark mass from the 5th Element) that is RS. This is about my 1 year anniversary of illumination.
    So I am thankful for and give thanks to the present day army of “Soldiers of Light”.

    Bruce Pratt

  87. Steve, You arent just Thoughtful, you are also Observant and Insightful.

  88. You are totally right, Lucy. In meetings, despatches and transcripts from COB, many of which we had to M9, M4 word clear, one tried their best to rationalize away the incredible: that this was the lunatic ramblings of a mad man. In the end, the feat becomes impossible and we have had to face the fact that all the Policy Letters LRH wrote about psychosis, all the explanations of the suppressive person, all the characteristics of the anti-social personality, all the ramifications of the Type III, have no better example than David Miscabbageyoualltohell.

  89. Hi Tom ,Your post does shine a bright light in this dark corner with your staement “The SP is totally insecure and is battling constantly in covert ways to make others less powerful and less able.”
    There is a video by David Mayo on this topic that I found brilliant in the way he described it.
    With sooo many SP’s being declared by the DM Machine I mistrust all of their
    I have disbused myself from the ideas & Black PR that were forwarded on David Mayo by the DM thugs and the Ray Mithoff concoted full of outpoints Story of a Squirrel.

  90. Its just incredible.

    What are the chances that the powers to be in OSA will say enough is enough and handle this. Some morning when he arrives at his office there is a group of them waiting with a doctor.

    Not that anyone is going back, but at least stop the destruction of the subject and make the situation livable for those who choose to remain.

    What does OSA have to loose. Just do it. What would LRH do?

  91. Impartial English Girl

    Mad; just totally, utterly mad. Atrocious spelling as well – not that I blame the flunkey having to type at “ranting-speed”. The man’s a maggot.

  92. “Scientology is below ATHEISM is popularity.”

    Karen – you may be surprised to know that atheism is the fastest growing religion on the planet!! Indeed after being a scientologist for 17 years I became an atheist myself.

    My particular strand of atheism is one where you are entirely open to real evidence as it is presented. Anything thrown up by the 5 senses is purely opinion!

  93. Yes, this is how I feel as well. Thank you for stating it so eloquently!

  94. Moving Forward

    I haven’t posted in some time, but I have to say that this post was very revelatory when it comes to explaining the ‘management’ style that exists in the SO. I could never understand why actual policy on management was rarely used, but rather almost cherry picked phrases from policies were pushed down the lines in an often forceful manner (‘just make it go right’ being one of the more ubiquitous) — and it was done in such a make-wrong manner. I just never understood why volumes of actual management procedures were ignored. I thought the problem existed between senior management and Class V org management, I never suspected it came right from the top.

    This made me recall a list question I was asked once while on Int clearance lines (this was in about 1991-92; I never made it, something for which I am now quite thankful). I’m paraphrasing, but it was along the lines of: ‘Have you heard any black propaganda regarding RTC’. The question floored me and for some reason, I remembered being almost disturbed by this question and it stuck with me. Now I see that RTC was being positioned as an unquestionable authority. Anything negative said about RTC would be ‘black propaganda’ and would be out-ethics.

    Lucy said in her post after reading COB’s writings about SO Orgs that she wondered if there was something wrong with her that she couldn’t understand what COB wrote. I often felt the same way when I was in Class V orgs about orders coming down the lines, especially when it came to things like orders from RTC to all Class V orgs (including those with maybe 10 full time staff) to immediately have 25 staff either posted as auditors or in training to be auditors. Things like this drove me around the bend, but it was clearly a sin to think bad thoughts about RTC…

  95. Lou has been doing this for the over 20 years! If you look for the definition of brown nose, you will find her picture. She took over as the “handler” or PR person to Tom Cruise in ’90 after an LRH PPRO Jeannine Boyd blew and Greg Wilhere was taken off.

    Megatons of insanity, destructive, off policy and entheta has flown through her lines and it has no effect on her in the relay and participation of it, perhaps to make her more calloused and uncaring as shown on the demise of her ex in the PAC RPF.

    She is the shadow of Dear Leader, accompanying him while he exercises, goes to movies, in first class all the way ready to record and relay all the insanity going on,.

  96. Here’s a song he’s been singing since all is competent staff left:

  97. “If he wasn’t propped up by others, he’d be nothing. ”

    Jim. Why IS he propped by others? Back in ’82 when he took over (unofficially) a whole raft of people left scientology and demonstrated around the world in large numbers.

    It was obvious then he would destroy scientology – my only surprise is that it has taken so long. But then that IS because he has been propped up.

    If all scientologists had just ignored him as if he wasn’t there, at that time, he would have simply died a death.

    However there is a lot of FEAR in scientology and a lot of scientologists are afraid of losing their bridge and eternity. So DM is propped up by the fear of others.

    So we can extrapolate that scientology is run on FEAR – not of DM but by the fear of losing your personal bridge to eternity.

    What is interesting though is that the whole bridge has been available outside the cofs since ’82 and probably before. Because we didn’t have the benefit of the internet we couldn’t disseminate to scientologists easily. Now, however, Marty is able to do just that and we can see the results. By making the bridge readily available outside of the orgs this should remove the fear.

    So why is DM still in charge? Why hasn’t everyone connected to him told him to get stuffed? Just exactly what would happen if they did? If ALL scientologists just ignored him as if he wasn’t there what exactly would happen?

    It’s not as though his commands are readily intelligible – are they?

    I guess by now he has access to the all important money and therein lies the problem. And there are always those that support psychotic little dictators. However these goons don’t have guns and won’t shoot people for ignoring/disobeying DM’s orders.

    It is an interesting situation of human emotion and reaction isn’t it? Personally I thank DM from the bottom of my heart. When he took over scientology it woke me up!

  98. Despite what LRH said about Psychiatry, Psychiatry is nevertheless correct when it comes to defining David Miscavige. Of note is the term “word salad” in the final paragraph that describes DM’s text messages:

    “Psychosis (from the Greek ψυχή “psyche”, for mind/soul, and -ωσις “-osis”, for abnormal condition) means abnormal condition of the mind, and is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a “loss of contact with reality”.

    “People suffering from psychosis are described as psychotic. Psychosis is given to the more severe forms of psychiatric disorder, during which hallucinations and delusions and impaired insight may occur.

    “People experiencing psychosis may report hallucinations or delusional beliefs, and may exhibit personality changes and thought disorder. Depending on its severity, this may be accompanied by unusual or bizarre behavior, as well as difficulty with social interaction and impairment in carrying out the daily life activities.

    “A wide variety of central nervous system diseases, from both external poisons and internal physiologic illness, can produce symptoms of psychosis.

    “Delusions: Psychosis may involve delusional beliefs, some of which are paranoid in nature. Karl Jaspers has classified psychotic delusions into primary and secondary types. Primary delusions are defined as arising suddenly and not being comprehensible in terms of normal mental processes, whereas secondary delusions may be understood as being influenced by the person’s background or current situation (e.g., ethnic or sexual orientation, religious beliefs, superstitious belief)

    “Thought disorder: Thought disorder describes an underlying disturbance to conscious thought and is classified largely by its effects on speech and writing. Affected persons show loosening of associations, that is, a disconnection and disorganization of the semantic content of speech and writing. In the severe form speech becomes incomprehensible and it is known as ‘word-salad.’
    IMO, “word salad” is the correct term for the DM “Shermanbabble” heard at IAS events and other fundraisers; CoS having no actual public events that are religious in nature:

    “In the mental health field, schizophasia, commonly referred to as ‘word salad,’ is confused, and often repetitious, language that is symptomatic of various mental illnesses.

    “It is usually associated with a manic presentation and other symptoms of serious mental illnesses, such as psychosis, including schizophrenia. It is characterized by an apparently confused usage of words with no apparent meaning or relationship attached to them. In this context, it is considered to be a symptom of a formal thought disorder. In some cases schizophasia can be a sign of asymptomatic schizophrenia; e.g. the question “Why do people believe in God?” could elicit a response consisting of a series of words commonly associated with religion or prayer but strung together with no regard to language rules.”

    The Shermanbabble word salad uttered by DM at the opening of Idle Morgues or its manifestation as profane text messages is an apparency of language: It has content but no meaning.


  99. Mark,
    Had a beeper too, which was the only way for communication in the 80’s, then having to call in via public pay phone when I was roving working for DM & Pat. I used to get $500 boxes of rolls of quarters at the bank for Pat and DM. Also had those Nextel phones where direct connect (walkie talkie type of talk) aside from the cell phone. DM never had a number and the calls were from Lou or Shelly. Glad not to have been subject to text messaging – it’s very amusing to find that DM totally approves of texting and driving, which is the cause of many if not the most road accidents in most recent times.

  100. The Diary of a Mad Man. This is exactly the sort of “dirty laundry” the church doesn’t want one to see, i.e. exactly how psychotic and confused it’s Dear Leader is. And boy do we get to see this dirty laundry – deep, dark brown giant “skid marks” in it’s own underwear. Keep posting this kind of shit, and Miscavige will soon be in his own nightmare, S*cking C*ck On Hollywood Boulevard.

  101. Theo

    Here is what I have come to understand or have inferred ( or perhaps even imagined) regarding the “succession” of Scientology.

    LRH never built a “succession” into Scientology.

    He never set it up so that there would be a new “source”.

    He never designed the Orgs or Sea Org structures to be “run” by a single person.

    The “post” of Chairman of the Board (COB) was certainly never designed to “run” Scientology, if there even was a post of “Chairman of the Board”. My understanding is that such a post would normally be simply a “tie breaker” in the event that the board came to an impasse, and to keep in “Robert’s Rules of Order” during meetings, so as to facilitate proceedings.

    Viewing the Executive Strata and entities that LRH did set up, it seems that LRH had intended that Scientology be forwarded by a series of administrative bodies that were each assigned to particular aspects of Scientology’s existence, function and future. The issues on KSW also assigned some of that responsibility to each and every Scientoligist.

    No single person or entity had “total power” over Scientology.

    As a final safeguard, LRH seems to have left the copyrights to Mary Sue Hubbard ( later “stolen” from her). I would presume both because she was his “heir” and because of her invaluable help assisting LRH in creating the subject and the organization. I assume he trusted her, her intentions, and her judgment, and gave her the power to “withdraw” the licenses of the Church of Scientology to use the copy-written materials, should she feel they were being misused.

    It seemed like a good plan.

    It seems that we have all failed him to some extent. He believed in us. He trusted us.

    But….. Here we are! We have only been delayed and interfered with. We have not been stopped! We CAN make this right. Our handling of this responsibility will determine our worth and whether or not LRH was right to trust us with Scientology.
    We are actually not doing this for LRH at all but for ourselves and for others. He gave to Tech to US. It is ours to use or to waste.

    Our actions will determine our futures.


  102. Having to M9 and M4 dispatches like the one above is Black Dianetics.
    To require others to understand the incomprehendable is just sick.

  103. I would say ## Commend Intention = COB ## and ## Dept 21 (Source) = COB ## is universally understood within the SO for some time now – personally I date it back to around early 2000’s that it started to become “known vocabulary”.

  104. Theo, the correct word is usurper, not successor nor anointed one or heir. He has asserted for decades that he is “Dept 21” on the organizing boards which is “Source”, the rightful place for LRH.

    My first thought after reading the post of the day was – wow, thank goodness I don’t have to follow this insanity and felt bad for those still drinking Kool Aid that do. Wondered then how they could put up with it and what they concluded as to “what we were supposed to do” given this insanity. The results are obvious – foot nukes and self (or reverse) black PR globally, resulting in those astounding survey results as posted by Karen.

  105. martyrathbun09

    I agree with your assessment. However, LRH assigned the copyrights to CST – not to Mary Sue.

  106. Miscavige must be so bewildered.

    For he is the only real person on earth. The only one who matters. Guys like Tom Cruise are simply power terminals to be used for propping oneself up. And when said power terminal gets a little too feisty you just shoot down their career and their popularity with bogus brainwashing and valence overwhelm.

    Runts like Marty, Mike, Amy, Jeff, Steve, Dan, etc, aren’t even real people because they aren’t wealthy or famous. And by signing an SO contract, it means they are a bunch of suckers anyway so why not treat them like the dogs they are.

    But wait a minute! These dogs seem to be showing a bit of self-determinism suddenly! They are going online and on tv to complain that I’m not perfect!
    Unbelieveably, they are having an impact and driving people away from my pre-destined, well-deserved reign of power! They are exposing my genius covert ops tactics! They are daring to complain that I hit them! And they’re doing it publicly!

    How could this be happening to me?!? For I am the only one who matters!!!

    Bewildering what’s happening, eh, Davey boy?

  107. In a parallel universe when he can allow himself to walk the walk!

  108. Careful Erwin,

    We don’t want to cheer him on to No. #1

    Cruise and Travolta are both trained airline pilots.

  109. martyrathbun09

    If that includes the negation of anyone’s perception that there answers and phenomena not generally perceptible to the “five senses” then I’d say Atheism is quite the destructive cult, and perhaps one should not be so proud of its rapid expansion.

  110. The problem is Theo is that there was never supposed to be any successor to the Ol’man.

    Since Ron never considered himself a religious leader.

    The truth is Miscavige does not exist on any Scientology Org Board.

    Should have posted a notice that no self aggrandizing, megalomanic, psychotic, psychopathic, completely insane as in bat shit crazy “religious leader” need apply.

    But Miscavige seemed to think he was up for the job so he took it.

  111. That idiot Miss Cabbage the Savage issues orders and the rest of us strained their last bits of free theta to make that oral diarrhea make sense. Quite idiotic, isn’t it (I mean, on our part 🙂 🙂 🙂

  112. Well if Miscavige actually followed policy then he’d be forced to resign (aside from any dark Government conspiracy) since he is on a false post that does not in fact exist in policy.

    Scientology as an organization was never intended to be “led”.

    Since each post is supposed to lead.

  113. Thank you Amy!

    For uncovering the true source of Miscavige Tech (TM).

    The Simpsons!!!!!!!!


  114. Scott Campbell


    One can only hope you will soon have one of those self – examining, “Oh my god, what an asshole I’ve been!” moments.

    I’m not holding my breath.


  115. “Word salad” wow! And with Blanch dressing. I remember a group of us were working on a script with Danny Sherman. Danny wrote something incomprehensible like, “For all that’s been said in the name of LRH and a pack of cards 51 strong, given that missing ace, and a heretofore unknown watch band of black alligator hide thought to be missing for 35 years… but that’s not to say that all-in-all a surprising twist ala the very best of Stephen King when he wrote, ‘Good night, black heart. Good night.'” And someone in the room (probably either Mike Rinder, Diana Hubbard or Dan Zimmatore) said, “Yeah, but what does that even mean?”; Danny just laughed and said, “I don’t know, but it sure sounds good don’t it.”

  116. Well Marty, when there is real evidence for more than 5 senses then it will be encompassed. Personally I would revert back to scientology in a New York minute if any of it were honestly true. However you are (along with others) doing a terrific job in helping get those under DM’s thumb out. Something we can all align to.

    As I wrote to you at the beginning of your sojourn, I am years in front of you and have the benefit of hindsight. In 20 years time Marty, please remember this conversation.

    Alternatively do a “where are they now” on those who left in 1982 and set up independent movements. I was closely involved with 4 AAC’s (including Santa Barbara) and Bill Robertson also.

  117. Marty

    Thanks… I stand corrected.

    You have to understand that I have never been anywhere near Int or Exec Strata. Just trying to put some pieces together from what I thought I remembered reading.
    Now that you have pointed that inaccuracy out, I’m starting to remember something about it being LRHs estate then that went to Mary Sue?


  118. Gee loki what’s the “doctor” going to do?

    No wait a minute I got it!

    Jump up and down with Dave yelling “KILL KILL KILL…”

    Which reminds me.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  119. Tick Tock Tick Tick .. tick tick…faster and faster……
    Very funny !
    I’m out and the C.O.S is promoting it.
    I don’t have to do anything to let people know about it.
    Today again 2 Scientologists that want to get out connected up, after they heard the promo, thinking they were alone and are happy now to find brothers in Arms.
    Tic toc…….
    Have a good day 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

  120. Martin Ruston,
    I’m not really sure whether your question , ‘why is he propped up?’ is rhetorical or loaded (reading the remainder of your post and the extrapolations you personally have made).

    I’ll proffer a response to this one pregnant query.

    On Casablanca Tejas, the other site linked above, is an article on A Real Good Rule of Thumb. By their actions you shall know them. Those actions, observed and with the certainty of personal observation of what I personally observed, are the basis of my cessation of agreement with David Miscavige.

    Any propping I personally did, in terms of granting the opportunity to show true color, or enough action to demonstrate actual intention (my skull reading isn’t what it used to be) was over as soon as it became evident to me it wasn’t well placed. That was some time ago, and I’ve carried on the road to truth since, meeting many others along the way. Lots more recently 🙂

  121. Maybe this is the secret ingredient of Shermanspeak ™.

  122. Amy, that reminds me….

    Did you hear the one about the gang who hijacked a semi full of Viagra?


    The All Points Bulletin went out all across the country, for police everywhere to look for a gang of hardened criminals…..

  123. MF,

    We ran Int Clearances per Exec Series 40 which listed all the quals for management and I can honestly say we never had a question like that.

    It changed after they kicked all the Non-SO off the lines to questions specifically regarding RTC and Miscavige which aren’t actually supposed to be a part of actual management.

    Any way consider yourself lucky you weren’t accepted or you’d still probably be grinding away at the “Truth Rundown”.

  124. Marty and Mike, Its been mentioned that it was 86 or 87 when DM went off the rails. I remember Marty telling me that DM is the only person he knew that would cross a busy street just to fuck with you. It wasn’t just after LRH left. I remember when I was working in LEC as mail I/C in 1980 . There were two doors to LEC at Int, one to the telex room and one to the mail side. Now, I have always been a friendly guy. I came out of the mail door just when DM was coming toward the telex door. I smiled and said ‘hi Dave’. DM stopped, walked over to me without saying a word, jumped up and got me in a head lock and pulled me down to the ground. I was so surprised I did nothing. We said nothing to each other. He then turned around and went into the telex side of LEC. From that time on I never trusted him and never turned my back on him. For years I tried to figure out the point he was trying to make or what I did to provoke him. Now I know he was just looney toons from day one. No rhyme nor reason to his reactive think or action.

  125. Here’s a list of ten tell-tale signs that you’re in a cult, produced by the Guardian newspaper in the UK. Please tell me how this applies to Atheism.

    • Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

    • No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

    • No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget or expenses, such as an independently audited financial statement.

    • Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

    • There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

    • Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

    • There are records, books, news articles, or broadcast reports that document the abuses of the group/leader.

    • Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.

    • The group/leader is always right.

    • The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

  126. Considering that ‘source’ is about the last thing DM can recognize or spot, even his mis-named offices are a testament to his state of case and Reverse Scientology.

  127. I think some responses are in herent to human nature. Here is one aspect I haven’t seen mentioned. It is the activation of what might be called the “herd instinct”. If a human being’s composite nature is viewed as having developed through an evolutionary process, then the potential of the activation or recapitulation of any of the more primitive instincts can occur, as the potential of all of them exists in present time, in every organism.

    One such phenomenon has been called by social psychologists, “Diffusion of Responsibility”.
    It is also sometimes called “Bystander Apathy”.

    From the site:

    “Diffusion of responsibility, also called bystander apathy, is a social phenomenon which occurs in groups of people who all witness a crime and do nothing to help the victim. Diffusion of responsibility can manifest itself in two ways: a group of people see someone breaking the law or being injured and no one acts; or, in hierarchical organizations when underlings claim they were just following orders and supervisors claim they were just issuing orders from someone higher up than they are.

    A troubling example of bystander apathy occurred on the morning on March 13, 1964. A young woman named Kitty Genovese was sexually assaulted and stabbed to death outside of her apartment building in Queens, New York. Thirty-eight of her neighbors watched the attack from their windows or heard her screams for help, but did nothing to help her during the thirty-five minutes that Genovese was being attacked—no one called police or went to her aid……..”

    We are co-creators of our shared universes, whether it is our church, workplace, neighborhood, town, and so on. But people are not always very autonomous, or self-determined. If we were, we wouldn’t need scientology or any school of self-development. But as is, we can be prey to factors within our own psyches that produce passivity in some situations, factors like a “herd instinct”, or the tendency towards “diffusion of responsibility”.

  128. Moving Forward

    WOW! I love this film and actually my daughter was watching it while I was reading this thread! It was inescapable to me the parallels between Chaplin’s portrayal of Hitler — his insane behavior, how he treated his subordinates, how people adulated him and Miscavige. The ‘speech’ scene you linked is spot on Miscavige at events.

  129. Yeah, I saw that same clip. Loved it but not for the same reason DM did!

  130. Karen B,
    There IS of course a method of understanding the incomprehendable. It’s the Data Series. As Steve points out, one, out of the angels of his better nature in most cases, attempts to make sense of this non-sense as the alternative is hard to take – he’s a walking Rock Slam. Sooner or later, the outpoints are so blaring, so egregious, so irrational, that what began possibly as a sneaking suspicion blooms into full blown recognition and the head clears, the somatics blow, and sanity returns – David Miscavige IS a real, honest-to-Pete, right there in front of you Suppressive Person.

    Ahhhhhhh, the TA comes down, your own integrity fills your space, and the pluspoints of you come to view. Gotta love the Data Series.

  131. So true Marty.

    Also Atheism though it claims otherwise is a religious belief. Since they believe there isn’t a god and worship materialism.

  132. “It’s per Chairman Maoscavige….”

  133. Waiting for him with a doctor and four big men in white coats with a straitjacket.

  134. Thoughtful

    I have a problem even figuring how anyone could even truthfully do an M9 on David Misgavige’s gibberish. I can see someone going totally robotic and rhyming off some words, but it sure as hell is not M9 in reality.

    More Black Dianetics. Forced gibberish parroting = M9

    Obviously some of you did actually understand the “communication”, as in, duplicating that it was totally off the wall and not a real communication in any way.

    So.. blank eyed parroting, in this case, is the appropriate response, if one plans to get on with one’s life at all. Tune out totally and just say words. This seems to be the “Golden Age of M9” that COB realized that LRH had totally missed in his Word Clearing Series.

    Or does he actually think for a moment that anyone truthfully has a clue about what seems to be so painfully obvious to him. Perhaps if we were not all sexual perverts and raving SPs we would. I wouldn’t know.


  135. Thanks Sinar. I hated the beeper and whenever it went off, I knew it wasn’t good news or for a good reason. In fact, after I left the Sea Org, I had a job opportunity but refused to take it because it involved wearing a beeper.

  136. This link made me wonder…when SO members get old and their bodies start deteriorating, do they ever get skilled nursing care or is it simply assists and PTS handlings?

  137. He is psychotic, but the people in the compound all Love it there or are Stockholm Syndrome –They protect their abusers.
    He is a King with No Clothes……

    Maybe with larry brenan and Mr’s knowledge of shell corps and illegalities in the corporate structure, Maybe they’ll find a certain string that hasn’t been pulled yet.

    Do we still have two EX IRS officials on the board? Wouldn’t they be liable for a WW tax shelter set up in Australia?

    He still has no clothes….

  138. Martin Ottmann

    To the individuals who were close to Miscavige:

    Is Miscavige reading any books (non-scientology related fiction, non-fiction) in his “free time”? If so, what kind of books is he reading?


  140. Pingback: Top Posts —

  141. Fellow Traveller

    Wow. “Never led.” Wow. Coordinated, yes. Guided as needed. Corrected as needed. Lead was really not part of the program. Fascinating insight, Robin. Thank you.

    Bruce Pratt

  142. I never ever AGREE with bloggers that assign David Miscavige conduct as CHILDISH.

    I feel children and immature teenagers have wild -eyed innocence in their conduct, impulsiveness, sometimes in the spirit of play even if reckless, not done with malice and evil intentions particularly.

    David Miscavige conduct is EVIL.
    This is not childish, it has the Intention to harm and destroy and child -like conduct does not dramatize this trait.

    Also, he is 50 years old, he is and adult and he damned well knows his conduct sets a horrific example for the rest of the “Church.”

    I am of the opinion that the label “childishness”lessens the “TALIBAN SCIENTOLOGY” he has morphed it into.

    He dramatizes the conduct of a rattlesnake, always ready to strike with no analytical thought, and I would liken him more to a rattlesnake than an immature child. He spews venom. He poisons the environment. He contaminates the universes of those he dominates with total control.
    None of this is childish/immaturity.

    But I respect the multi-viewpoint system where we can each state our own perceptions of how we see it.

  143. Tony DePhillips

    Whoa Nelly!!

  144. Tony DePhillips

    Embedded for you.

  145. Tony DePhillips

    LOL!! You could stand in for Danny boy anytime Thoughtful.
    That was scary good…

  146. Hi Jim, the question wasn’t loaded or personal for that matter. So I guess it was more rhetorical as we, more or less, know the answer.

    In my conversation and seeing Aus and NZ execs it is patently obvious that they hate what they are doing. It is not natural for decent honest people to lie on TV, for example. Looking at one or two over the last 5 years I have seen them fall to a sad reflection of their former selves. You have to be a psycho yourself for it not to harm you.

    My nearest exec has done some shit things to locals and in my conversations with him it is my opinion he hates DM, but he still follows orders.

    So my rhetorical question is “why do they do it and prop DM up?” Is it “battered wives syndrome?”. Or is straight out fear of losing their bridge? I know one or two will be just as deranged as DM and are doing it for their power trip.

    Given that DM is not their wife and most have never met the man how can we say the former? Is there any other reason staff members and public put up with the very obvious shit?

    I have been getting people “out” since 1982 and I hope to continue ’till the last one. We can align on that even if nothing else.

    Our personal beliefs are immaterial to this cause. Let’s put an end to the abuses. What they choose to do when out is their business alone, though I sincerely hope they are able to lead a fulfilling life.

  147. Tony DePhillips

    That’s great LO.
    Can you tell us more about this?

  148. Fellow Traveller

    Steve —
    You are now responsible for all subsequent atrocities at the int base because when Dear Leader gets wind of your continued, present ability (to observe, to make decisions, to act. (SH Spec 131, 6204C03)), he will go on yet another rampage to blame and punish all those remaining who did not get you into proper occluded, kowtowing behavior. 🙂

    I am very grateful they failed.

    Bruce Pratt

  149. Good point Mark. Many times the thing went off during sleeptime or whatever so one had to quickly get dressed and rush off to the closest payphone, half asleep.

  150. RJ – You seem to entirely misconstrue atheism, at least the way I see it. There is no worship, no leader, no god – in fact there is nothing. Indeed there is NO belief system in place at all.

    What there is is a trust in what can be demonstrated and proved. Yes I know science changes as it learns more – as it should. Atheists are not fixed in time or place – they are capable of moving along and taking on board new things as they present themselves.

    They don’t say “there is no god” because no one knows that. They don’t say “we are not spiritual beings” because no one knows that.

    These things are left in the “not known” drawer! We deal only in what is and not what is believed. Yes you may believe there are more than 5 senses but that is your opinion. To me it’s a not known.

    I gave up “believing” after I left scientology behind and it took a good few years to get there. It was a bit of a reality adjustment to be honest.

    It’s not that we don’t have beliefs – I believe in myself for example. It’s just we are cautious what we take on board.

  151. Somebody get over to Scott quick , he simply ain’t goin to make it!

    That’s a one way ticket if I ever heard one!

    Good luck on that one Scott.


  152. Lack of education, no understanding or empathy for the consequences of his actions/decisions on others and stunted emotional maturity explain the bratty, bullying, foul mouthed tantrum throwing behavior of DM. He doesn’t come up with any real solutions, or make decisions from any firm knowledge base he possesses or come up with any creative ideas or insight. Instead he rants and screams at others to do it while at the same time claiming he “does it all” when in fact he only rants, screams and bullies – and really doesn’t know what he wants half the time but hopes with enough bluster and bravado no one will realize he is clueless and be fearful of ever questioning anything he does. (He is also ignorant of the fact he is ignorant. He is a dumbass who believes he is a genius and proclaims it to all, but somewhere deep inside secretly fears people will discover he is well below average in most all departments.)

    Ranting, screaming and scheming seem to be his only areas of real expertise and I would say he has honed them because he lacks real knowledge, has trouble expressing himself and therefore is constantly frustrated. Yet he doesn’t have the maturity to deal with his frustrations, or adult coping mechanism outside of single malt scotch, hence more screaming and tantrums.

    Joining the SO at a young age did have a profound effect on his development. He had almost none of the normal social interactions you and I would have had in high-school or among large number of our peers. Instead he was placed in a sort of bubble where the only decisions and thoughts he had pertained to his SO duties, pleasing those in authority and scientology. Of course he can breezily break up marriages, ruin people’s lives with demotions and banishments to the RPF because he truly has no concept of the ramifications of those actions – just like your average bratty, immature 14 year old would be mostly ignorant to the consequences of their actions, or just not care either way. Emotional maturity supposes a certain level of restraint, thoughtfulness, empathy and understanding – I don’t think anyone would use those adjectives and DM’s name in the same paragraph.

    You really can’t make a comparison between DM’s experiences and the Dalai Lama’s. The very complex, real world experiences and decisions that the Dalai Lama was forced to face and make aren’t comparable to the cloistered duties DM had in the SO. Besides issues related to his hat the young DM mostly had a “decision free” lifestyle, whereas the Dalai Lama was forced to confront and make profound decision he was keenly aware could have enormous repercussions for millions of lives. He was also educated to be a leader, he was instilled with the concept that as a leader he had a grave and profound duty to uphold and a commitment to his people and teachings to maintain and embody. DM never had any such training. No one envisioned him as a young prodigy that would one day helm the CoS – instead it was a naked power grab that he won.

    As for the Dalai Lama not being educated and only studying “religious text” – I beg to disagree. After 18 years of rigorous and intense study:
    <quote= "In 1958 he took preliminary examinations at each of the three monastic universities, Drepung, Sera and Ganden. The final examination was held in 1959 at the Jokhang Temple in Lhasa. That morning, the young scholar was examined by 30 scholars of logic. In the afternoon, he debated Buddhist philosophy with 15 scholars, and in the evening, 35 more scholars tested his knowledge of the canon of monastic discipline and metaphysics."

    I don't think you could even compare the levels of discipline, study and knowledge that the Dalai Lama experienced with DM. Besides most of DM's early years were spent on post, not in religious study.

    (Also keep in mind that most Buddhist temples embrace learning, particularly in mathematics and sciences – not shun all books and knowledge outside of the buddhist scope. )

    I'll also add that not all of DM's problems are environmental. Obviously his sadism and psychotic behavior are more a factor of genetics than environment. Like most living organisms he is a combination of his genetic make-up and his environment. It just so happens his biological dispositions paired with his environment made for the perfect mix to create a ruthless, ignorant, cruel dictator.

  153. On this night before Thanksgiving 2010, I send out greetings and love to everyone I’ve met here online and in real life during the last ten months.

    I am full of gratitude to Marty and Mosey who put and keep this blog here. Likewise, I thank Mike who co-leads the conversation and, with Christie, welcomed Independents into their home last July. I won’t single out by name the many dozens of others who have led this conversation through with their wisdom.

    I came here first to lurk and listen, then to try out my ideas, argue and rant and finally to cognite, change and grow.

    I thank each of you for sharing so much of yourselves here this past year. You have helped me learn more than you will ever know. And I’m not through yet.


    Just Me

  154. Absolutely mindblowing. DM’s Church of Scientology listed along with Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Mossad and Blackwater among the world’s most sinister organizations. I would love to hear what DM might have to say about that.

  155. Jim, Very much agree and do love the data series. When I first looked at the stories posted on-line I had a hard time believing the magnitude of the outpoints. Having never been the recipient and never been at Int it almost seemed to incredible to be true.

    It took me a while to believe the data. Once I was over that hurdle I no longer had any thought stopping about the consideration how could the head of the church be a full blown SP. That consideration is flat. I know what I know, what I observe by stats, production (lack of in this case a negative stat), etc supports the conclusion he is truly crazy. The published communications from him prove it to the world.

    Seeing the truth has stopped the downward spiral for me and brought wins. Much TA. You have helped. I think this will snowball into an avalanche and take him out with it.

    Maybe someday I will take you up on Cubans, fine wines and fresh fish. I do love that smell of the ocean. I have a soft spot for cramming officers – they are fuzzy cuddly techie guys who have hidden stashes or exact references that just melt the confusions.
    World can’t have too many real cram off’s or trained evaluators.
    Like oil on the raging seas. Calms a bit and makes the game interesting.

  156. Make no mistake, DM treats her like shit at times too. I have seen it with my own eyes. Years later when they were trying to run the Truth Rundown on me (a rundown that takes any black PR you have or have spread to others and traces is back using FPRD procedure) that was one of the lines they tried to run, “DM treats his own staff like shit.” Well, it didn’t run because it was true.

  157. Scott,

    It won’t happen. He hardly has time to catch his breath and wolf down some food as he fights dragons, the gods of Avalon, aliens from Lemuria, Martian implant officers trying to get him in for a cleanup and refresher. On top of that he has these “pests” – out of goose-step from his loyal RTC staff – who have left the fold and are talking. He is insane. He would have to have a moment in PT to self-examine himself. The closest he comes is to self-examine himself in the shower to see if he hasn’t lost anything in the fighting. If you are done with wishful thinking can you please make him a donation – he needs a new cod piece for some moral support.

    As you said – you are not holding your breath. On second thought, forget the donation, go catch some more charlie tuna and enjoy the treats. Earth does have some fun things to keep us entertained.

  158. Christie Collbran

    Thanks for the laugh Steve. That was too funny!

  159. Well you gotta admit Joe that you could say that Scientology has kinda sorta gone “mainstream” in a way …..

    Ya know right up there with Blackwater and Al Qaeda.

    Dave can be damn proud a hisself!


  160. Sorry Martin.

    Hate to burst your bubble there but true atheism which is according to the American Oxford is “the theory or belief that God does not exist.” is a belief system.

    What you seem to be describing is agnosticism which is based on the “belie(f) that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.”

    From the same source.

    Also who told you that Scientology was a “belief system”?

    It most certainly wasn’t Ron.

  161. martyrathbun09

    Done it. They are mostly dead, or in hiding, or just plain bitter. Moving on back ain’t gonna move you on up.

  162. Doc, thanks

  163. Tony; Thank you very much. I didn’t know how to make this happen.

  164. Oh that would be fun Nancy!

    Doing some forensic accounting on the Church of Scientology.

    I’d say Meade set up a pretty slick tax shelter but I’m sure there’s an Achilles heel somewhere that could be exploited.

    Like the fact there is no actual Board of Directors yet someone who calls himself “COB” and it ain’t Frank Sinatra.

  165. Scott Campbell

    WindWalker, Sapere Aude,

    Thanks you guys. Too bad DM never physically attacked me. I’d relish the opportunity to take that fucker apart in a hot second.

    I was physically abused and attacked many times by my dad growing up. No one else could get away with treating me like that.

    The last time my dad tried it, I ended it swiftly and with finality. He never tried to physically abuse me again after that.

    DM is good at hiding his true nature from the general public – but if you look real close, you just might get a glimpse of him way back inside those eyes. Be prepared to see what he knows. It’ll shake you.


  166. Whoo Hoo!

  167. Nice!
    And ditto….

  168. Thanks Bruce, We Indies ought to get together again soon!

  169. Scott Campbell


    I believe this quote from Henry Ward pretty accurately sums up Marty’s aim regarding the use of Scientology Philosophy: “The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next”.


  170. Scott Campbell


    I translated YIPOS as, “You Ignorant Piece Of Shit”.

    Did I get it? If so, what do I win?


  171. Tony DePhillips

    Not to be too off topic here, but I wanted to say something.

    I am thankful for finding a good group of people that really care and have integrity and are doing something to change the awful situation that has occured within the CofS.

    I recall seeing the staff and sometimes myself go into the Org to get the all important stats up during the Holidays. It was out-ethics to take the Holiday off. No matter if it was within the ARC of society to celebrate the birth of Christ, Thanksgiving or even Veterans Day…
    The Orgs were usually dead anyways. Well, I am glad to be out of that crazy rat race and to now be hooked up with some real cool people.

    Have a nice Turkey day Marty and Mosey and Mike and Christie, and all the other people out there that are helping to make things go right.
    I thought of an LRH quote from The Supreme Test HCOPL that I thought I would share: (fair usage)
    “There is another point here, however. That is purpose. The difference between one thetan’s forward thrust and another’s is PURPOSE, validity of.

    A madman can also go from A toward B relentlessly where B is a totally undesirable and destructive point. But in actual practice, real madmen never really arrive at the B they wanted to arrive at. A madman only goes toward but never really arrives. So he only makes everything go wrong.
    B must be a desirable point not destructive to a majority of the dynamics for rightness to occur.
    So there is this savage and bare datum:
    People who explain how wrong it is all going and who have reasons why and WHO AREN’T PUTTING IT RIGHT are the real crazy people in the universe. The only ones crazier then they are, are the ones who are quite happy to have everything fail and go wrong with no protest from them. And the only ones even worse are those who work endlessly to make things go wrong and prevent anything form going right and oppose all efforts instinctively.” ~LRH

    I believe that WE are the ones making things go right now. It is not happening within the c of miss cabbage’s walls. WE are the ones who are doing it and I am thankful that there are still those who DO SEE the outpoints and are WILLING to do something about it.

  172. Former VP Dan Quayle was known for his verbal gaffes. Still, he astutely summed up people like DM:

    ” People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history.”

  173. Sid,

    I wouldn’t say the Guardian was the last word on what defines a cult.

    Me I prefer the Oxford American:

    cult |kəlt|
    a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object : the cult of St. Olaf.
    • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister : a network of Satan-worshiping cults.
    • a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing : a cult of personality surrounding the leaders.
    • [usu. as adj. ] a person or thing that is popular or fashionable, esp. among a particular section of society : a cult film.
    cultic |-tik| adjective
    cultish adjective
    cultishness noun
    cultism |-ˌtizəm| noun
    cultist |-tist| noun
    ORIGIN early 17th cent.(originally denoting homage paid to a divinity): from French culte or Latin cultus ‘worship,’ from cult- ‘inhabited, cultivated, worshiped,’ from the verb colere.

    I’d say Atheism fits nicely under 2.

  174. Fellow Traveller

    Good call, Ms Karen.
    His behavior could be seen as childish under cursory glance. But as it says in the Personal Integrity essay to take care to observe what we observe, ah, there’s the rub. This ain’t a child’s behavior to me either.

    Bruce Pratt

  175. Fellow Traveller

    You’re a poet! The army of “Soldiers of Light” has a poet! And a good one as far as I am concerned, not to inappropriately evaluate for you.

    I have a soft spot for cramming officers – they are fuzzy cuddly techie guys who have hidden stashes or exact references that just melt the confusions.


  176. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    FT/Bruce, The torches are ready and lit! I got them on sale from “” 🙂

  177. JOE HOWARD :

    Gallup Poll is the division of Gallup that regularly conducts public opinion polls in more than 140 countries around the world. Gallup Polls are often referenced in the mass media as a reliable and objective measure of public opinion.

    The Link I gave above Scientology was rated BELOW Atheism, Below MUSLIM (which includes Radical MUSLIM in the perception of the mind of the Public)…this was done 2 years ago in 2008.

    Please note this 2008 POLL was done

    BEFORE Marty’s Blog was on the map, read by 12,000 or more a DAY.
    BEFORE Panorama BBC was aired.
    3) BEFORE CNN ‘A Scientology, a Culture of Violence” series aired.

    One can ONLY imagine where it would survey in 2010….

  178. 4) before 100s of videos had been uploaded to youtube.

    5) before 6000+ and counting protests had occured worldwide.

    6) before over 1000 days of protesting had gone by with a protest occuring somewhere in world nearly every other day or week.

    7) before the rest of the today tonight series had been shown

    8)before the St pete times articles

    9) before the tom cruise video had reached over 5million views.

    10) before the Senate inquiry in australia

    11) before the german documentary was made

    12) before paul haggis and others spoke out

    Any idea what % is now?
    Gallup do another one and let’s find out.

  179. Moving On Up a Little Higher attracts over 7 x the number of unique hits per day, than the Scientology site.

    I came across when browsing and did a site value search for both:

    The stats are amazing.

    I hope this data can be of some value to you. It doesn’t relate to this post, but this was the only way I could figure out to contact you.

  180. Just finished reading Steven Hassan’s “Combatting Cult Mind Control” and much about the hold SCN has over people is explained. The book is pretty good and I would recommend it.


  182. I have no doubt that this transcript is real, but the problem is that it would be very easy for him to deny any of it was true. All he’d have to say is that two of the most evil SPs ever to walk the face of the earth have colluded (yet again) to make up some ridiculous fantasy by fabricating some written correspondence. And even if you could prove the transcript legit, putting “Lou” in the middle means that DM would have an easy scapegoat. All the abuse was Lou. It was in Lou’s mind. Lou made it up. DM had no idea any of it was going on… Better to look uninformed and duped than abusive. The plausible deniability is ingenious, really.

    So, for me the question begs, why hasn’t anyone ever managed to capture these rantings on tape or film? Incontrovertible evidence! From the abundance of stories told (here and elsewhere), it’s not like the abuse happens in secret. The man is so fond of hearing his own voice and seeing his image on video, and his temper seems to be hair trigger, so one wonders how it’s possible that there is not a single shred of ugly ranting and raving captured on audio or video somewhere. Is it just sitting in some archive somewhere? Is it on the cutting room floor? Or would he have ordered incriminating evidence like this destroyed?

    And though I know that when people decide to escape, they are most concerned with just getting the hell out of there, I would figure that by now, someone biding their time, knowing they are getting ready to blow and thinking “no one will ever believe just how awful it is in here” might find a way to record some of the abuse and sneak it out…

    Wishful thinking?

  183. Martin, your position actually sounds like a form of “Logical Positivism” sometimes called “Logical Empiricism”.

  184. Dear Bozz,
    Please Email me at

  185. martyrathbun09

    First, he hasn’t denied a blessed document to date. Second, read a fraction of the more than four hundred posts here for your answer. Complicating affairs is that since Mike Rinder left, Miscavige has adopted the white collar corporate criminal solution of paying large sums of money in exchange for non-disclosure contracts with all those who left since.

  186. Fellow Traveller

    I believe there is 1 exception, very notable: to LRH he was JB.

  187. Martin,
    I’ve got to clarify something; ‘getting people ‘out’ since 82′ – what do you mean?

    Out of what?

    On the initial question, thank you for clarifying. I suppose as a general ‘why’ persons prop up something they don’t agree with, I’d say they are mistaken. That’s not facetious. The question then becomes why do people make mistakes?

  188. Fellow Traveller

    Soul mate! Happy Thanksgiving!

  189. Hi OldFox
    I know what you mean about the smear campaign on David Mayo. I was so absolutely negative toward him back in that day, and when I started waking up I was sick to reread, “The Story of a Squirrel” and see what I had bought into. This video presents what David Mayo is really like, and I do like him. His points about losing one’s personal integrity are exactly what spouse and I have had to work our way through so it’s good to hear his remarks. M6

  190. Martin,
    ‘…any of it were honestly true.’ Wow, that’s really sweeping.

    I mean, do you honestly consider THAT is true?

  191. “They are mostly dead, or in hiding, or just plain bitter. ”

    I feel you are sounding a bit “old” scientology here!

    Dead: Yes some are – after all 1982 was a while back. I am 64 (but not dead!). Believe it or not but you will die one day too. You may not be aware of this but dying is not something we can opt out of.

    in hiding: I resent your implication that these very brave people are in any way lower toned than say yourself. If they are not around then they are most likely living a rewarding and fruitful life and couldn’t give a fig for anything scientological.

    bitter: Yes maybe the odd one is – certainly we all resented DM taking over in 1982. Then of course there were the horrendous attacks on many of us – but you and Mike would know more than I regarding this. However I doubt that any former member from the ’82 exodus is bitter now. Indeed the few that I am in contact with are greatly relieved. Hardly bitter.

  192. sadly I’m not a scholar so I am not up on definitions. You may well be correct. What matters is my way of living and not the definition. The most important thing for me after scientology is not to take anything on board unless there is evidence to back it up.

  193. 😆
    Yes, he sure does!
    It took me two days to even read this insane psycho babble.
    Un-effin believable this dribble … REALLY!

  194. The definition doesn’t worry me. Call me a Darwinian if you like. My “bubble” is of no consequence.

    Certainly I don’t believe in god or spirituality purely because these things have absolutely no evidence regarding their existence. Man has believed these things since the dawn of time but that doesn’t make them correct. I guess it’s in our DNA!

    Materialism doesn’t come into it either. I guess at some point the real answer will out.

    Of course scientology is a belief system! As is any religion or philosophy. If you hold something true which can’t be demonstrated or proved it has to be belief. Remember Santa Clause and the tooth fairy?

    The world used to be flat as well and the Sun revolved around the Earth. I have no problem with anyone having beliefs – even strange ones but don’t try to pass them off as truth. That would be fraud.

  195. Scott, I don’t know what you are meaning but scientology wasn’t the philosophy of the last century and you be certain it won’t be the common sense of this! There may well be a small band of dedicated scientologists surviving for a few years though.

  196. Jeff, yes, it is absolutely M.A.A.A.N.
    Much Ado About Absofukinglutely Nothing

  197. 😆 gleefully

  198. Sapere,
    Recognition of DM as truly suppressive, like one of the few real ones, and that ‘Oh my f’ing GOD!’ sort of thing is a big deal. Especially if you’be been caught up in his nutsoid universe. Depending on where you may be situate, life is going to shift, sometimes markedly. Like completely. That shift can be very, very rough. It’s infinitely better than being snagged in the wacko little prick’s insane world.

    I like the ‘fuzzy, cuddly’ image. Like a Kodiak bear maybe 🙂

  199. “out” of their abusive environment.

    I have no problem with beliefs so peeps can be as scientological as they want. However I came in in 1965 and saw it change dramatically after the sea org and harsh ethics came about. Having brought a good few people into scientology I now have a mission to remove as many as I can from what is now and has been for a long time, an abusive environment.

    If they wish to carry on in the independent movement good luck to them. However if someone asks for my opinion regarding scientology as a philosophy I give it

  200. This blog.

  201. Lets us look at the main concept of scientology.

    We are spiritual beings who have lived many lifetimes and will continue to do so and that we can enhance our future lives (and this one) by auditing and training. Or some such definition.

    Yes – if you could definitely demonstrate or prove this to be true I would return, tail between my legs!

    Yes my statement may have been too sweeping. Apologies.

  202. wannabe,
    Film? Video? I’m trying to imagine say a guy in The Hole, whipping out his VHS recorder, or maybe a snuck out from archives Super 8 camera, and filming DM on a roll. Nobody has cell phones there, no one has digital cameras hanging from their back packs. This scenario you describe is just completely unreal to me.

    Laurisse has a phone. Do you think we’ll get video from her?

    Have some turkey, take a nap, wake up.

  203. Cat DAddy~I could use some of that myself!

  204. Thankfully the English language is a living language and moves with the times. Dictionaries are usually lagging behind somewhat.

    The Guardian is considered a serious newspaper however and I trust any definition it gives.

    I can see you get hot under the collar regarding “atheism” but you needn’t. If you are happy and confident with who you are and what you believe then you shouldn’t be worried about what others believe.

  205. I am and have been curious about Mayo for a long time. I just have some hunch, maybe on a theta level that his story is important, even if only a historical importance. I think he’s somehow a key piece of the as-isness of this mess. I have watched all his videos I can find on the internet. I got the idea Marty doesnt hold a high regard for him though, so maybe theres some stuff we dont know.

  206. Total Psycho!

  207. Happy Thanksgiving!
    I am soooo incredibly thankful for finding this blog and meeting the wonderful thetans you all are!

    I can spend time with my family and even my husband’s family in Texas…I don’t have to wait until after 2 on Thursday to rush over some place local and pretend to relax and enjoy myself. Nobody will judge me harshly or demean me, in fact, quite the opposite.

    I realize we can have LRH without the insanity…for that I am most grateful!

  208. LOL, if he gets them to do that, he’d really be WW Implanter No #1 because even the top psychs of the CIA, Pentagon and Mossad, with all their billions in unaccounted funds and all their mind control techniques, had to fly drones into the WTC and fire missiles into the Pentagon and ground because they couldn’t get Muslims to do the job.

  209. Not sure why your response is reading argumentative, Marty, because I am not disputing the document. I was just trying to figure out a way that he couldn’t slither out of blame. This is the jackass who put together an entire issue of Freedumb magazine specifically to discredit you. He put your ex-wives up to lying about his behavior on national television. There is nothing he won’t deny or lie about. I was simply wishing for the kind of proof that he couldn’t dismiss out of hand. A video (or even audio) of him berating staff and having a temper tantrum would do the trick. That’s all. Been reading your blog for quite a while and never saw any discussion of that kind of proof (or lack thereof). Am I missing something?

    I have heard about people who were coerced into signing documents before they left, but those don’t seem legally binding, since they were signed under duress. Has he actually been paying people large sums of money for their silence? This I had not heard. That would mean there are people who are willing to be bought and allow the abuse to continue. If that’s true, it’s really sad.

  210. In private papers/communications, LRH claimed that Machiavelli stole his work (on the track). From what I heard (internally, rumor), LRH believed he was Lorenzo de Medici, a very interesting figure involved in power struggles. In this scenario Machiavelli stole from de Medici and claimed it was his own. In any event, LRH studied Machiavelli because LRH loved and studied power.

  211. Yes, this is a really brilliant observation because we seldom see an SP leader in our world really rock slam. Just like in an auditing session, the R/S gets subdued and hidden away and is hard to reproduce. Then the perpetrator can’t be isolated because you “can’t see them”. Newspapers are very good are burying R/Ses and R/Sers.

  212. Sarge — Nice handling!! “From that time on I never trusted him and never turned my back on him.” Hallelujah!

  213. Wow, thanks for posting that Sarge. Seems like DM just had this destructive streak from his earliest years (Karen#1 and someone else confirmed that DM physically assaulted his PC while on his Class IV interneship in the early or mid 70s).

    And now we have that destructiveness and insanity in full-blown restim, having gotten worse and worse over the years.

  214. RJ – I really don’t recognise your description of atheism. I was not always an atheist, and at that time the word had terrible connotations for me. Even now it feels uncomfortable to use the word, such was my conditioning.

    Just as I cannot prove God exists, I also cannot prove he does not. On the balance of evidence and my own understanding of the natural world my best guess is that Gods are made by man, not the other way around, but clearly I cannot be completely certain on this point. This does mean that I have an opinion about religion, but that clearly does not translate into a religious belief. If you have an opinion on Islam, does that make you a Muslim? I would also not call it agnostic, since I lean to the conclusion that there is no supernatural realm. I am not 50/50, I am probably 95/5.

    As for worshiping materialism, well not so – if you ever came to my house you would see I have a modest set of belongings. The most important thing to me is my family, followed closely by my friends. After the bills have been paid, most of my income goes on my wife and my kids, whom I love dearly, and put first in my life.

    I also love this planet and its amazing beauty, I travel when I can and on a clear night gaze up at the stars in wonderment at the majesty of the universe.

    I see the scientific explanation for the world and the life that lives on it and miss a breath at the wonder of it all.

    Yes I am an atheist.

    At the end of my life I anticipate oblivion. To some this is very sad, to me it’s just probably the truth, which I refuse to dismiss simply because it’s difficult, and it’s a powerful motivation for me to make the most of my life. If I am presented with a Creator who asks me why I did not follow him, I will ask him to look inside my heart and see I made the best choices I could with the information I had to hand.

    My children ask me about God and Santa – I ask them what they think and we talk. I see how trusting children are, how easy it would be to install in them any belief system I chose. Part of me wants to tell them the truth right now, I really struggle with telling any kind of lies to them. I’m pretty darn sure about Santa, so one day soon I will have to cross that bridge with them. I hope they’re not upset when they find out the reindeer dust we sprinkle on the driveway was just part of our enjoyment of Christmas.

    We are told that Scientologists are the best people you could hope to meet, who got involved in the first place because they want to help other people. I am willing to believe that. If you met me, I’m sure we’d get along. Sid.

  215. WBC,
    Bought off with $$$ or familial connections – it’s true!

  216. Well I’m an atheist and a scientologist. Odd combination, huh?

    “Atheist” is the negative of “theist” which is a belief in gods of some form. But let’s observe what specifically atheists are the negative of. It turns out that of all the many atheists I’ve met, all are opposed to the same concept – the Abrahamic definition of god, meaning Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I’ve yet to meet a Hindu turned atheist.

    As an atheist I don’t reject the 7th or 8th dynamics. Just because I accept the concept of infinity doesn’t mean I buy into the fairy tale about the dude with the white beard who lives in the sky, or become all other-determined and start asserting that the bearded dude is watching and controlling my every move.

    I accept the 7th dynamic, I have enough subjective evidence to convince me. I accept the concept of the 8th dynamic (infinity) as only a fool would argue it cannot exist. Heck, we even have math symbols for it and use it in formulae.

    I’m an atheist for the same reason I’m not a HumptyDumptyist or an EasterBunnyist.


  217. Dan,
    Yes, totally agreed with both Lou and Shelly. Where’s Shelly now?
    There were also some very young and “gung ho” new blood who had meteoric rises and falls. DM also makes sure his staff’s marriages get destroyed!

  218. I’m not sure I agree with “Intention to harm and destroy”. Having an intent implies (at least to me) at least some understanding of what the opposite action would do. There’s at least some thinkingness and causation. I think it’s more a case of DM has a *compulsion* to harm and destroy.

    I reckon that’s a better fit as he doesn’t appear to possess the ability to think.

  219. “I accept the 7th dynamic, I have enough subjective evidence to convince me.”

    Well therein lies our difference. Of course I used to be the same but some years back I thought to myself “just what did I accept as subjective evidence”? Then it dawned on me that all the evidence was actually opinion.

    And, for me, opinions are not enough now. It doesn’t mean I have totally rejected the 7th and 8th. They are relegated to Tooth Fairy status. When I see, touch, converse with a Tooth Fairy I will accept them as real. It would help to others see the Tooth Fairy as well – just in case I am hallucinating!

  220. MR,

    There is plenty of evidence that the spirit does exist.

    Subjectively all you have to do is make a mental image of a cat and ask yourself who is viewing that cat?

    On a more objective basis.

    I suggest you read Mind Reach by Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ both who have PHDs in physics.

    After putting that book down I suggest reviewing the thousands of since declassified documents and reports generically released under the cryptonym “Stargate” were hardened CIA analysts and officers determined that the possibility of psychic ability was indeed demonstrated on a statistically significant basis.

    For example Pat Price was able to accurately describe the gantry cranes at Semipalatinsk that could only be explained by actually physically being at the site an impossibility or by psychic ability of some kind.

    Same with Ingo Swann who perceived rings around Jupiter over a half decade before it was confirmed by a JPL flyby.

    Not to mention the thousands of other reports that demonstrate a statistically result according to statistician Jessica Utts.

    As far as I’m concerned the fixation that all is material is more an analogize of the tooth fairy belief than anything else.

    Though you’re welcome to believe that you are nothing but MEST and that all is material if you like.

    I prefer to consider the possibility that there is more to life than materialism and oblivion.

  221. MR,

    The definition as it exists in the Dictionary is part of the commonality known as language. The agreement that words mean certain things when communicating with others.

    More succinctly and colloquially it’s calling a spade a spade and not a garden hose or a tulip or a rose or whatever.

    Sure words “evolve” but they usually are expanded upon not rewritten to mean something else unless it’s some kind of psyop involving agitprop!

  222. HiYa Sid,

    we have the same dilemmas regarding out kids! What we say and do to please and comfort them is one thing the truth can be another.

    However just as kids learn Santa Clause isn’t true then at some point they have to learn the truth about religion. I have never really talked to my 14 year old about this but he has deeply religious friends and gets talked to by their parents (as they do!)

    However totally on his own he has originated that he doesn’t believe in all that “malarkey”.

    Heaven was invented by someone wanting to comfort a dying person they loved and themselves as well. Reincarnation was probably in the same category. Hell was invented by politicians and priests to control populations.

    Man accepts “God’s Will” so he doesn’t blame himself when he gets it wrong and when he knows he is going to something wrong. God can be blamed for everything and anything.

    Of course if there is a God and I meet him I have some serious arse licking to do!

  223. Martin, Marty is right on the dead, In hiding or bitter comment regarding those who left or were thrown out in the early 80’s.
    They are the silent majority, in fact,of those who were involved during that period.
    Most have not desire to reconnect, stay below the radar and have a failed purpose on the subject of scientology as it relates to help and are often bitter in that regard. Those genuine posters here know this to be the facts. Its beyond a debating point.
    Your resentments, objections and disbelief of this is in itself unbelievable and unreal, as I suspect you are.

  224. Scott… oops

    I totally misread that last line about holding your breath.
    Thank God.
    I was worried for you man.


  225. Such a sweeping generality Loki. I suspect I know more 1982’ers than you! Certainly most have no desire to reconnect. Your opinion that they have a failed purpose on help is – your opinion. The truth may be totally different.

    The genuine posters here know no such thing and as for being beyond a debating point I find that beyond belief. I hold no resentment, the only thing I object to are people in scientology being abused. And I am willing to bet I am more “real” than you!

    Seriously Loki what do you actually know, personally, about those that left in 1982? You do sound a bit OSA?

  226. You don’t talk to many kids do you? That is not an insult – I try not to go in for that.

    Kids speak – bad=good etc etc etc

    Certainly it is always good to understand what the other person is saying – we can agree on that. However dictionaries are never up to date. How can they be? They are printed after the fact.

    English is a particularly fluent language (pun intended) and very anarchic. Anything goes. Which is why it survives so well.

    If you don’t think English has evolved beyond recognition I suggest you read Chaucer.

  227. OK, not so sweeping then. I also take it you’ve not been exterior. That’s the single most definitive and positive personal evidence one can view, in my opinion and experience.

    Should you not achieve such a thing, within this one lifetime, at the end of it, you’ll have another opportunity.

  228. Did you personally experience any gains with Scientology?

  229. I am willing to admit there MAY be other senses that some of us May have. Certainly my dog and cat have some way of knowing things that I don’t. However this doesn’t make us a spiritual being. It just means that there may be other or enhanced senses available to some.

    Yes it is comforting to believe that there is something more to life than “this” but it doesn’t make it true. Considering the possibility has no down side – we should all do this. However until real evidence is produced we should all consider the possibility of the opposite.

    As I said it was the hardest reality adjustment I have ever made – swapping sides. Not easy.

  230. martyrathbun09

    Identifying with MEST is very painful, yes.

  231. martyrathbun09

    Martin, if you weren’t so pathetic I might accuse you of the same thing. You keep starting flame wars like this I’ll have to show you the door.

  232. Nothing, as I learned later, that couldn’t be had elsewhere. And there are other methods that are appear to be even more effective, or so others have told me. However I haven’t done much myself. My local doctor sorted out one problem – something that had plagued me the whole time I was in scientology.

    We can debate the efficacy of lower grades stuff and I won’t argue too hard. However when it comes to OT levels these are just absurd. I won’t go into details here as Marty wouldn’t let it through – we don’t want people dying from pneumonia do we?!!?

    However I did enjoy my time up until about 1968 then the SO and ethics took over and by and large f**ked that up.

    Yes people do get wins with scientology – but then they do with placebos as well. There is a lot more to know about this and I admit that.

  233. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    The goodness in Theta cannot be over-stated. The evil in Entheta must not be underestimated. DM is known by his actions. He is in my view a Whole-Track SP.

    Understand that his present post in life is to create chaos in the theta universes he has influence over, directly or indirectly. Nothing makes him happier than seeing his “control” over the bodies of his victims.

    Karen, I know you know this with every bit of awareness at your command. I couldn’t touch your experience in dealing with the insanities of life you’ve had to confront in person and in the “chair”. I have “seen” my own universe and that of many others and am very aware of how good and how bad we as thetans have been treated. The more I LOOK the more I SEE.

    One of the stable datums I profess to people I know when they observe “things that shouldn’t be” in children and adults is this:

    Hitler and Hussein were children!

    To believe that David Miscavige is a product of his childhood upbringing only is naive to say the least. He is a monster in the making. Given the right time and place and parents he could easily be a genocidal maniac. Yes I believe that. Like I said before, Hitler and Hussein were children.

    I’m still interested in knowing where our friend Heber is being held!!!

    Karen, thank you for rocking our worlds, YOU are #1 🙂

    Happy Thanksgiving,


  234. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    With finger in nose, looking at the want ad:

    “…no self aggrandizing, megalomanic, psychotic, psychopathic, completely insane as in bat shit crazy “religious leader” need apply.”

    DM reverse-engineered it to fit his tiny mind and VOILA!, “Let them eat cake!” and “I can do this!!!” “Do I get to sprinkle holy water on myself?”

  235. I actually understand the family connection stuff more. If the choice is between being a whistle blower and having access to your family, it would be hard to fault someone who didn’t want to completely lose their family. On the other hand, though I understand that people come out of there with nothing and a payoff can seem appealing, taking money in exchange for silence seems really wrong.

    But I recognize how incredibly brave it is for people to leave knowing they will be disconnected from their families and persecuted by DM and his goon squad. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be on an ongoing basis for people like Mike and Marty and others who have chosen to speak out knowing full well that DM is spying on them, conspiring against them and determined to destroy them. Not everyone is strong enough to withstand that heat. However, I strongly believe in the old saying that all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

    I really am just hoping that sooner or later someone will leave with damning evidence that cannot be ignored by law enforcement, the court system, the general public and others in the church. And the only evidence I can conceive of in that category would have to amount to a smoking gun — and that’s why I say video or audio. Of course, in light of what has been done to Daniel Montalvo, it would take a very brave soul indeed to go that far out on a limb if they had that kind of material in their possession. But the right piece of proof could finally be Miscavige’s undoing — and that, at least, would be a start.

  236. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Your Postulates are a beautiful thing! 🙂


  237. You think the International stat sheets for the last 20 years have being saying the same thing to him?

    Is he getting the message?

  238. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Love and Total ARC back at ya!! Who says we couldn’t learn from LRH and the PDC?

    Gary 😉 “A glass full of life to all those with good hearts!”

  239. “Technically and organizationally, Miscavige has done more to destroy the Church of Scientology than any Government agency, than all Government agencies COMBINED.”

    It makes you wonder if he was planted in the organization by those with a vested interest in mankind not being free.

  240. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Thank YOU, M’Lady!

    Sir GalaTater 🙂

  241. “Shout him down at his next event”

    It’s not that simple. When he’s opening a new ideal org, he has it classified as a church service with police all around. If you interrupt it, you will get arrested. The police tell the protesters beforehand that if they interrupt the church service, they will be arrested.

  242. “So, for me the question begs, why hasn’t anyone ever managed to capture these rantings on tape or film?”

    That’s a good question in my opinion.

    Look at all the trouble Nixon went through to cover things up but we still had the tapes.

  243. Martin, posts like yours attempt to steer the conversation away from its focus while paying lip service to abuse.
    Your tone is 1.1, bordering on “seething” 1.1.
    Your arguments and points are weak and generalities.
    You give me the creeps, actually. And if I feel it, rest assured many others here do as well.

  244. ouch –

    I understand this is your blog and you control it. Apologies if I overstepped your boundaries. Indeed I am surprised you let me get so far.

    However, calling someone “pathetic” presumes you think you are superior to me.

    Just remember who stayed and propped up an abusive organisation and participated in illegal acts against fellow men. It wasn’t me.

    I guess you and Loki are allowed to be offensive and I guess I am not allowed to reply. How very scientological.

    Marty – your road has only just begun and you still have a lot to learn. You won’t accept that I know.

    The guys that left in ’82 were more honest than this second wave and had cleaner hands. Is that why they are despised?

  245. MR,

    There is “real evidence” of man’s spirituality you just seem to be either ignoring or dismissing it based on some kind a priori conclusion that you call “truth”.

  246. I’ve read Chaucer, Shakespeare, Marlowe etc.

    There is a difference between linguistics and what is considered ” common usage”.

    Most dictionaries and lexicons base their definitions on common usage ie how the word is commonly used.

    This is why dictionary definitions are always “after the fact”.

    Sure it’s nice to reinvent words but this to me is like reinventing the wheel.

    Also it seems at times that children have more common sense than those who claim to be “adults”.

  247. This is all well and good, but : WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

  248. Martin,
    Thank you. Correct me if I’m mistaken, you did get some gain, some something, that you may or may not have attained elsewhere. That’s a pretty cautious answer, but we’ll leave it at that.

    Yes, I’m familiar with your opinion on the Advanced Levels. Your compatriot, Mr. Scott has similar views, though he seems much more willing/certain on his Lower Grade gain.

    You’re right , this forum isn’t the appropriate spot for that particular discussion. I did hear your descriptions, the publicized ones, and I have a vastly different reality on the area. Should you care to, my email address is available. That’s in light of you admitting there is more to know.

    We do agree on DM’s corruption. That is your exact term ‘corruption’. Perhaps, for any future contribution via this blog you care to make, you might allow what you have admitted re the subject, there is more to know, and I’m sure your contributions will be more readily viewed.

  249. martyrathbun09

    Despisead? You are mocking it up. When you call “Loki” an OSA operative, I believe I am quite charitable to call you pathetic. Your comm has served to prove my original point. Thanks.

  250. Oh yeah, waaaaay down the page, probably lost in the messages, I had another question: Have you been exterior to your body?

  251. And for what its worth, since the circa 1982 departures(voluntary and unvoluntary) seem to be benchmark often used, I have to say that it is this blogs theme, content, and contributors that are bringing those folks from that era who come upon it back into the scientology orbit.
    This blog, and its allied blogs, helps heal the wounds, revisit latent wins, and provide positive avenues to reconnect with old friends and the bridge itself.
    Its healthy, unlike the sick, twisted attemps to infiltrate, divide and divert it.
    I said it before, the plants do not last here. OSA needs to get their own house in order. They know what they have to do. They need to raise their confront and just do it. Somewhere behind that barbed wire, there is a hero waiting to be born.

  252. So now we know where LRH got his reference of “Herring and Garbage”

  253. Come on Jimbo!

    You know Miscavige can’t read anything involving words.

  254. morelivesthanacat

    The solution? In part you’re reading it. Look at it this way: If none of this information ever surfaced, he could get away with this for a L O N G time. But as more and more of the world comes to know what is so skillfully hidden behind that PR mask, what happens to the SP whose stable datum must always be “nobody knows”? He’s not long for this world. And check out that comm above again–that was long before things got REALLY bad for him. Last time I saw him was in the dark period of Lisa McPherson–he was really black and solid then, and that was LIFETIMES before all this rash of expose even started.

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