Please see the latest stories in the Money Machine series in the St Petersburg Times.
Since I know most of the particulars of the stories covered, what I find most fascinating are the church’s responses. Read the story on Roccio and Luis Garcia, Scientology Couple Who Gave $1.3: Church mission ‘has been corrupted.’
Here is the totality of the church’s response to their devastating story:
The church said it expelled Garcia and that he is an ally of high-profile church defector Marty Rathbun. Garcia insists he resigned.
What does that even mean to the public at large?
See the story of Carisa Marion, Shifty Business: Times Inquiry Finds Secret Debits, Deception After “Basics” Release.
The church is caught red-handed, with conviction-worthy evidence, of grand larceny and here is the totality of their defense:
The church characterized the unauthorized debits as a “misallocation of funds, not felony theft.” It said it considers parishioners’ pre-payments for services to be donations that become church property. So while diverting funds was not appropriate, it wasn’t theft.
“Indeed, in the United States, most parishioners claim tax deductions for their donations, indicating they have relinquished ownership of the funds,” the church said.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again here, David Miscavige has patently been engaged in systematic criminal behavior mis-using IRS tax exemption as a shield. Also, the title of this post was in reference specifically to this story. Notice how Carisa’s trust funds were only returned to mitigate the damage this very series of articles might cause Miscavige’s criminal operations. You can bet a number of atrocities will be ‘remedied’ by the church in response to this entire series – but only, only where Miscavige perceives that to do otherwise will be more painful than to return funds owed.
Finally, see the lead article in Monday’s edition, Pervasive Pitch: Scientology book and lecture series, ‘The Basics’, unleashes a frenzy.
After detailing a series of hard sell horrors, including with the use of false imprisonment, the Times’ recounts Roccio Garcia’s story of being reged for basics packages in the auditing room of her auditor by her auditor. Please secure your beverage before reading the “church’s” response here:
The church denied that any of its auditors breached their ministerial duty.
It said church policy dating back to the 1950s requires auditors, as well as course room supervisors, to help parishioners get materials to further their spiritual pursuits.
“Ministers of every religion participate in disseminating the scripture and in fundraising,” the church said. “It is utterly offensive that the Times is questioning religious practice.”
No, what is utterly offensive is the cult of extortion and greed that David Miscavige operates in the name of Scientology.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Marty, you are just tightening the screws and tightening the screws…I am so in admiration of all the hard work and persistence and unwillingness to stand by silent of you and so many other Independents!
Remember, you are the ones who have the Hearts & Minds of the public at large!
The “church’s” responses are such alterations of the truth. They are such pros at lying and twisting anything and everything to cover their criminality. And they feel great when they pass these off onto the press and feel like they “won.” I am actually having a hard time putting into words my complete disgust of this.
I also had a bit of an “Aha” moment on how LRH’s work has come to be changed around too. It is similarly twisted now to support all this money-grubbing. NO WAY did LRH say that auditors should talk money with their preclears–LRH’s answer to that was the resign-up line which made sure the pc got something that blew him away and that he loved before signing up for more. Screw these idiots.
Of course the resign-up line “doesn’t work” anymore–no one is getting any proper technology now and everyone has to be coersed and scared shitless in order to pull more money out of them. Go St. Pete TImes!!!
Scientology belongs to the people.
A leaders mission is to serve and it is the sole right he has.
Hey Misc, use “Hymn of Asia” as Hatting Materials and bring the Spirit of Scientology back into the game. (Please use a Dictionary this time, thanks!)
WE COME BACK – and some of us did!
Your implant station will cease to exist – very soon!
This I promise you.
You were used. You played us. You will soon hope that you never did sell your soul to Mammon, boy!
LRH warned us. Who new that it would happen during his lifetime.
But nothing lost.
Too many trained, we know the way out.
You won’t use people as a battery for your Matrix any longer.
We’re pluging out!
This is the ol’ “if you don’t get ethics in, life will do it for you” The SP Times are merely being obliging. The Indies being interviewed are not crazed apostates-they are people simply telling the truth and it shows. I can hardly wait for more to unfold!
I know someone close that was reged for Lifetime IAS memberships for his family by his examiner after session.
Luis and Roccio
So proud! That’s the way Ron’s team does it.
St. Pete Times doesn’t seem to have much in the way of troll control in their reader response section. Makes for some really enjoyable hunting 😀 😉
(DM’s trolls are out in full force but getting trounced by about 17-1)
To me it is sad that reporters from a newspaper have to be the one to put in ethics on Sea Org members and the Sea Org. It’s a joke. The Commanding Officer of ASHO culling through accounts to find dead parishioners who can be debited? Unreal.
The SP Times does such a thorough job.. time, place, form and event. The people interviewed are calm, polite, educated and caring people. Someone who knows nothing about the subject would listen to them and 99% would find their statements to be true. The Church’s aloof dismissal is beyond belief. I think the only reason there is not a public outrage now, is that Scientology has sunk so low in terms of impact that the general public has already written it off a a subject of interest, under the mismanagement of Miscavige.
What ever happened to “Humility is the heart of review”?
The events at Penn State last week remind us all that it is the individual that has to take action. Assigning responsibility and control to someone who “knows best” while ignoring the outpoints around one is the path to destruction and death.
I feel for many of my old friends who are caught in this trap. I guess the consolation is that with the exposure that is currently going on, it will not be long before this whole charade comes tumbling down. And we can help these people get re-oriented and moving on up again.
Mark
Go, Marty! Go!
Seriously, how long can they flatly deny everything before they realize the audacity of the denials?
Where there is smoke… Fire. Keep pouring in the coal.
“Ministers of every religion participate in disseminating the scripture and in fundraising,” the church said.
Uhhhhhhhhh? To the tune of a second mortgage, your retirement account, your inheritance, all on top of maxing out all your available credit?
Oh yes of course, any given Sunday.
“There’s the cancer, burn it out”, as LRH said.
As a rough guess: if DM ordered 100.000 Basic packages manufactured 3000 $ a set then that would have made 300.000.000 $ income. Or those 300.000.000 drained from Scientologists. If he had ordered a push of „everyone going up the bridge now“ and selling one intensive auditing for 5.000 $ then he could have sold 60.000 intensives. Consinder 60.000 intensives of any kind of auditing done worldwide. This could have handled a lot of things around this planet. And in the end could have produced much more then 300.000.000 $ income. Even on a pure business perspective selling books and tapes only is stupid as you go out of business in the end. But this seems to be his Goal. And: he did not kill his followers but instead „killed“ them on their economics. In this society this is almost identical.
Is it just me or does the Church of Scientology have an ugly case of Gastroenteritis?
But honestly, thank you whistle blowers, thank you for standing up and being acknowledged for what you witnessed/went through. It takes a lot.
Wow, just WOW! So much proof of the theft and deception that is taking place on David Miscavige’s watch and the unmitigated gall of the ‘Church’ allows for them to BLAME the VICTIM?!?
The immediate word association that comes to mind here is ‘rape victims’.
Bravo David Miscavige, bravo. You are showing the world your true colors.
*clap…clap…clap….*
I want these excellent articles to be supported by comments from people who have had similar or even worse experiences. The COS is currently monopolizing com-
Ments section of the St Petersburg Times with ridiculous drivel designed to distract from the issue. The more supporting testimony we can include, the harder it will be for people to ignore the truth.
My mornings are usually very pleasant. I have my coffee sitting outside enjoying the cool fall air and the changing colors of the leaves. Not today. Today I decided to read this SP article on Carisa. Now I feel like I need a walk! That is the most God awful thing I’ve ever read. Outright theft and criminality all in the name of “religion”.
Carisa I have to hand it to you for not giving up and coming forward to tell your horror story. I still want my OT 9 money back (what a joke) along with IAS money. I know many others who also want money returned. Carisa’s story might be telling us something; maybe it’s time we all lawyer up. I don’t mean a class action suit either. I mean individual cases. Perhaps it’s time.
Facinating. The horrors just keeps on comming. Organizationally, the church has been unable to correct its errors in terms of major policies and its direction. The worst aspects of the church(ie greed, disconnection, lack of compassion) just become more accentuated over time and become even more repugnant. Its inability to self-correct is its fatal flaw.
I have to hand it to all those who made themselves available for interviews in this and all other series and expose’s. There are generations yet unborn that owe you a debt. Your sanity in this transitional period is both needed and admired.
Brian and Hy who I am honored to call my friends, did wonderful heartfelt interviews.
Luis, his wife, Carisa Marion, and Synthia Fagen who I don’t know personally but would hope to one day — wonderful interviews as well.
I try not to get too much hope going that THIS is going to be the end of that corporate nightmare but it never hurts to dream and dream big.
Thank you to everyone who contributed, to Marty for putting this out for the world (and for corrupting so many of us 🙂 — and the other news outlets who are forwarding this story.
Pulitzer coming up!!
WH
Scn reps are professional liars! They will twist ANY story to cover things up. They are disgusting and a disgrace.
Scn says and does things in the name of help
well this is what help really means to corp scn
H= Handover
E= Every
L= Last
P= Penny
HI Mark,
Long time… this is Eman…. you are speaking about Jon Lundeen… I remember… I was there. Man…. I used to feel bad about this…. He knew all the ways to get money back onto account, recrediting hours into the PC folders of public… saying that there were too many minutes, hours used for admin… euh….. but those were already counted into the WDAH isn’t it ???? yes and then what ….. The pressure on the reges to get the GBS up and getting the quotas met…. ethics interview daily if nothing was done…. irregularities done by reges…. Jon promising auditing by SHSBC Student and so debitting accounts…. auditing never delivered or fews hours…;
Then….. Ethics investigations done = the reges are out ethics… it never went back to John Lundeen….. When I got into Ethics and declared…. I wrote up over 800 OWs, KRs with all the financials irregularities…. including mine…. Jon Lundeen came out fine…. Weird…. I was the head on the pikes…. he had nothing to do with it…. I am sure later on, he told the publics It was my out ethics and so recredited their account and got me billed for it. I read that he was declared in the 90’s for finance irregs…
My question is ???? public can donate money and deduct it on the income taxes…. BUT BOOKS are not included….. So if public debit their account, shouldn’t the church or public pay taxes on those ?
Well I have many stories and know quite a bit on all that crap…. Well life goes on and hoping ASHO will wake up one day….
Brian, Hy, Luis, Roccio, Carisa, Synthia and Lisa! Thank you!
George,
One small problem with the 60,000 intensives idea. SInce the Golden Age of Tech Degrades there are no auditors being made. And why deliver anything for the money you get when you can get people to give it to you for nothing (or virtually nothing — these books and lectures cost no more than $300 to manufacture the entire set of books and lectures, in fact, the only real cost is the paper, and as many have noted, if POB REALLY wanted to get the tech into the hands of people around the world he would have made it all available digitally).
Bozz — They will keep denying until POB is gone.
Those answers are dictated by him. He is sitting in his bunker, becoming more reclusive as each day goes by. He is terrified that he, the almighty Pope and fearless leader of the fastest growing religioin on earth, may come face ot face with God forbid… an SP! Massive security measures are in place to ensure no SPs come into contact with him, but it has become easier to just stay hunkered in his bunker. And that makes him more and more unreal. He has no concept of what the public sees, the only people he talks to are grovelling sycophants and grovelling whores (attorneys).
I have said it before, the responses from the church are driven by fear of legal ramifications. His biggest fear is being criminally prosecuted. So, as insane as some of these responses sound, they are very transparent if viewed from the perspective of trying to preclude criminal proceedings.
And of course, to normal readers of these responses, they are INSANE. But he doesnt care.
In fact, this is a manifestation of the “last line of defense.” LRH wrote that matters regress from Intelligence to PR to Legal. Obviously that is where things are at with the RCS.
His intelligence network has long since gone beyond held down 7’s into full blown irrationality and then into catatonia.
Then the PR went out the window, Tommy sockpuppet regurgutating POB’s idiocies and being exposed as a liar (and he then took the fall for that), now replaced by Karin and “her” statements don’t even have a pretense of being “PR”.
So, he is backed up into legal — and in fact completely on the defensive in this arena, desperately trying to prevent the inevitable.
+1
Initially, after reading this post, my first thought was,”The poor CAT!”
Someone or Something around Helmet is getting the poo kicked out of ’em. He is totally on the defensive. And his feet are so “shot up” with foot-bullets that he has nothing left to do but lean on the ropes and take it.
Maybe this is the year we should all go to the New Year’s Events and stand up during his speech, only to turn our backs on him and just practice our TR-0. Maybe with some cleaver T-shirts or signs or something? I’ll bet we could shut down the event. Stop it before the brain-washing gets too far into its cycle.
Just thinking out loud.
PS: MIke, I hope you are doing well. Been a bit of a globe-trotter from what I can deduce. All the best to you in your business and travels! 🙂
I had books deducted — without my authorization — from my Flag account and shipped to me in Fall 2008. I refused the shipment. A later shipment of extension course packs arrived about two weeks later which I also refused.
Imagine my surprise when I found out from this article “the church considers parishioners’ pre-payments for services to be donations that become church property.”
This does not sound above board to me at all and my personal opinion is that it is a violation of the IRS agreement. I have the 2005 “Parishioner Annual Statement” which shows I put $27,721.48 onto what I thought was my account for services. The funds are plainly designated “Donations made for qualified religious services (solely intangible religious benefits).”
On this same annual statement, “Donations applied to non-deductible goods or services” stands at $150. That would have been a book or some such I bought.
Two points: 1) The books were deducted without my authorization from service account funds. 2) I now find out it’s not really my account at all, but has become church property.
Good grief! Rachel
Rachel,
As I said in an earlier comment — everything you see coming out of the mouth of POB (via sockpuppet Karin) is intended to shore up his legal position in fear of criminal investigation and/or a spate of civil lawsuits.
And yes, you are absolutely correct — they ARE in violation of IRS codes and the representations made to the IRS concerning how funds are collected and how they are returned.
It’s a problem when you engage in fraud and lies. You just cannot keep your story consistent. And this is the problem POB is having. If he says the right thing tohandle the PR, its a potential disaster legally. If he says the right thing for legal, it’s a PR catastrophe, and it might help stave off civil suits but won’t help potential criminal, but if he orients it to handle the potential criminal investigations then its likely going to create a problem for civil litigation.
It’s like being a wounded deer in a pond full of hungry crocodiles — defend against one set of snapping jaws to the right and the one on the left takes a chunk out of your leg, and as you turn around to deal with the one that’s got your tail in its mouth, another one jumps at your neck.
It really sucks to be Dave.
The book stat push extended to OSA Int itself. +/-4 years ago I was called by several high level OSA Int staff as reg cycles, including Greg Ryerson and others probably several dozen times. They had urgent and confidential briefings for me on attorneys in Europe that needed basic book packages to understand what they were defending. We danced a little, many of these people were 20 year friends from RTC days, and I offered to debit off money on account … but no, this needed to be fresh money, fresh cash … I didn’t actually realize at the time they were getting book quotas.
One day I asked one: “if this is so absolutely essential for the future of Scientology, all these books are being manufactured in house at a cost of probably $2.00 each, get Bridge to sell at this cost and I will pay for all you need. Why does Bridge need or even want to make a profit on books essential to the future of the Church and itself?” That was the last time I was called on that matter.
Michael,
Your logic is, well… logical. And as such, cannot be tolerated in the RCS. Even less expensive would be to give it to them soft copy.
OSA Int (and the entire ILO) were off post FULL TIME “regging” for Basics, with orders that they could not sleep until they had met insane quotas, and then being assigned rice and beans for their non-compliance. Of course, like everywhere else, it led to utter criminality — debiting accounts without authorization, SMI rounding up “Mission Starter Packages” that had been “donated” (in earlier stat pushes) and not used and “debiting” them for “Basics” and taking the reserves of groups and missions to buy “sets.”
And then POB has the audacity to use these “Sales” (most of which are sitting in garbage cans, garages or on remainders tables at libaries) to prove the “massive expansion” — even in their responses to the SP Times they say there were “80 million” Basics sold (I presume this is either $ value or counting each book and lecture separately) and that this is 5X the entire 50 years previously.
Funny, seems to be an admission that the criminality within the RCS is 5X what it ever was in 50 years of history….
Michael,
You got me thinking — always dangerous…
David Miscavige is the biggest stat pusher/stat faker (same thing) in the history of Scientology by a country mile.
This is no light condemnation. A stat pusher by definition is someone who is incapable of managing, who operates on a “short circuit” and LRH says “he cannot or will not look.” “It is the fate of the stat pusher, the stat ignorer and the stat faker to look around one day and find no org.” This is POB. The orgs are disappearing in front of his very eyes, but he doesnt care, as long as the money is coming in.
+ Nice! LOL! (Step back into your corner … don’t interrupt my count … one .. two … three .. ah, heck the Co$ is OUT! That’s just spasmodic limb movement …! Get the doctor in here …!)
George,
I believe in Economics, it’s called the “guns or butter” debate. But in this case, it’s the “auditing or chocolate cake” debate. Should parishioner’s money be used to fund auditing and training for staff and public or for chocolate cake for the boss?
Dear Mike,
The “methods used by” ethics officers…Jarrod Kelly is a Flag MAA in the Sandcastle. For goodness sakes! This is psychological blackmail. Jarrod being an MAA is so downplayed here, IMO. These young MAAs can put you on Golden Rod and ruin your life. I know of a guy who was put on Golden Rod by Slavka and Jazmine, both top Flag AO MAAs, while the guy was on a six month check. He had to buy about $30,000.00 in Basics to get that Golden Rod lifted. We, the Scientology public, all see through this. We may try to remain in denial about the true state of the church but the lies, denials and attacks of victims are seen for what they are. Delusions!
Lies. Denials. Delusions.
Stating anything less than a Mea Culpa is actually suicide for the church.
I don’t understand how Karin can look herself in the mirror in the morning knowing the coercion and extortion that has almost destroyed the trust public have for their auditors and MAAs.
DE
Windhorse,
When you think about all the empires which have come and gone, what’s another day or two?
Michael
Great in-depth analysis of the situation. Thanks, Mike! I like the idea that he is forced into the corner because that means to me that he’ll probably start looking for ways to negotiate with Marty and you, first of all, and with the rest of the Indies. That theoretically could open the door to a reform. Or am I being naive?
Two more parts are coming next weekend.
And we get to watch the show–for free if we want. What an entertainment bargain.
Was that before or after he was allowed to have a floating needle? (Nearly spit tea on the keyboard at the ludicrousness of the scenario.)
Mike,
What really happens to Church assets when the big collapse comes? Or when DM is sent to prison?
My son was a head on a pike one time. How the hell did you handle being billed for all those phony debits? And Flag did similar things to our accounts, recrediting money by repackaging intensives that had been purchased separately into one big money-saving package, then crediting the remainder toward books. The only problem is, the money was already gone long ago, so the G.I. did not exist, the books were paid for to Gold out of Flag funds, and I’m sure staff ate rice and beans to make up for it.
Thank you, Marty, for the overview of the press situation. I am always astonished that you find the time to read everything and write excellent and frequent blogs, and handle your email traffic, and audit, and confront the shitheads stomping your front lawn, and be a family man and travel. You want to get something done, give it to a busy man! Thanks for everything, Marty, I really mean it.
Check with Luis Garcia on the lawyer thing when you feel like going that route.
LOL Rory!
Mike, your statement about taking the reserves of missions to buy sets of basics made me think–I had been wondering why the Seattle mission moved from its visible locale with some activity going on, to a remote locale without even a sign that lets you know its there, and dark, dead, no activity. I was told it was because the ED of the mission was recruited to the Ideal Org staff, but now I think it was deeper than that–probably the place was financially ruined first. Anyone from the Seattle area can go take a look–it will be the most traffic they’ve had in months.
True that.
But the longer it stays intact, the longer my friends who have devoted their ENTIRE lives inside that cement slab calling itself a church are entombed.
That would include Dave Foster in his 70’s, Dartmouth College graduate and Navy veteran — registrar AKA fundraiser in the FSO.
I could start listing them all but it would be too sad.
Christmas holidays are coming up – regardless of ones religion it’s a time for family and friends.
Not quotas and stats.
WH
Great job Luis and Roccio.
It will be people like you standing up that will finally bring about change. We can’t count on the government. When you bring enough truth to bear then things will change.
You guys brought a ton of truth!!
Thank You!
It is sad to see that the Co$ has deteriorated so very badly that the common sense of the press in the very carefully researched and documented, hard-hitting St. Petersburg Times series, and The Village Voice series, is called upon to bring it, thankfully, down. Those guys deserve medals for various fields from Perception to Journalism to Moral Conscientiousness to Civic Duty and Courage. I’m grateful to them.
Somewhere in the disaster the Co$ has become, it would seem its individual members, perhaps in their greed for personal spiritual gain, or status, lost sight of the goodness of man which is THE founding belief of Scientology and LRH’s work. As individuals elected to turn their backs gradually on the society, the major mistake was formed. There was a time when Scientology was under attack, unjustly, by special interest groups in the society. Life is competitive. But when individual members, supported by LRH’s data and goodwill, began to erroneously think of themselves as being above any need to understand, or to love and give freedom back to those who supported them, to be open, and to live by their individual sense of morals and values; when they forgot those things, a process of disassociation began. The Co$ should serve as proof that a lack of one’s own values leads to insanity.
CoS: “It is utterly offensive that the Times is questioning religious practice.”
Wait … what “religious practice” is the St. Petersburg Times questioning?
Eman,
Glad to see you here. Thanks for speaking up on this blog.
I hope that we can wake all of our old friends up and get them out of the trap that they are currently in. It seems so simple, looking at it from the outside, but when you are on the inside and you know that speaking out will mean the end of your career, family and friends the decision is not so easy.
Mark
Michael,
POB will not parlay with anyone (other than a Federal prosecutor in order to avoid prison time) as he is too arrogant.
There is nothing to “negotiate” with me or Marty. He needs to “negotiate” with the people who are still in the church and somehow make his amends with them. He has nothing to offer those who are no longer in his little universe.
And…omigosh! Another lie in the Church responses. Well not techinically a lie. They state the Basics Call Centers (and there were more than two) did not report to POB. Well, no they did not, technically. The RTC Reps over the bases where the call centers were reported very extensively, daily, to POB and got their orders back. Re: the insanity that ensued, POBs insane orders re: Basics are definitely hall of fame (or shame) material in the category of “illegal, cross-, destructive, unevaluated, and/or unreal orders.”
Too bad there isn’t a St. Petersburg Times-like paper here in Washingon, D.C..
In the August, 2006, I placed $16,800.00 on account with the D.C. Foundation in 2006 for my Grades. Only, I never got to use it. Before I could use it for anything, I was told that I had to complete an “Ethics” cycle. Fine. I did that. That “Ethics” cycle included a trip to Flag, donations for books and other things to the tune of about $10,000.00 and, lo and behold, 3 years and 8 months later, I was allowed to start my Grades. Sort of.
The problem, then, however, was that in my very FIRST action, I was told that I was PTS, and that I needed to do a PTS handling. Well, Ok. I capitulated, even though I was not even remotely PTS. So, the auditor assigned to me began to clear words … that is when the problem started.
This auditor (who had just returned from FOUR YEARS of training at Flag) apparentlly hadn’t learned how to clear words. He would feed me partial definitions, and when he did deign to allow me to actually clear a word, he’d would not allow me to use a dictionary. Instead he’d only show me a dog-eared photocopied page of part of some definition, which he had underlined and highlighted. I was allowed only to ‘clear’ the part of the ‘definition’ he would allow me to read. Horrified at this, I nevertheless put up with this for an hour or two, wondering what the “H” was going on, until he went to ‘clear’ the word “Suppressive” with me. Once again, he showed me, not a dictionary, not the full and complete LRH references, but just a few lines of underlined, highlighted text (and he didn’t even show me the reference to where this information came from so I could look the entire definition up later if I wanted). And, then, he’d ask me to give him an example. In particular, he asked me to give him a definition of how an omission could be considered suppressive. So, I said, well, if a fellow were a night watchman and fell asleep and someone broke in and stole Org property, that would be a ‘suppressive omission’ (according to the ‘definition’ he fed me). But, that wasn’t good enough for him. He made up his own example: Anyone who failed to do their GAT Training, would, by that ‘omission’ be considered to be a “suppressive person”!
I never went back.
Then, in early July, 2011, I asked for my $16,800.00 back. Only the Chaplain stalled and stalled, and about two months later, I got a call from the Flag Justice Chief, Cara Golashesky, who told me that, about a month earlier than the call (which was a month after I had asked for my money back), I had been “declared”. That was a surprise to me, so I asked why? and she said “Oh, you know.” Well, I don’t know why (not that I care), was never Comm Ev’d, never got any charges sent to me, never was given a copy of the declare … and not surprisingly, after that phone call, the last thing I heard from the Chaplain of the D.C. Foundation was that I had to contact the “DSA” about my request for a refund.
So, it appears that the Founding Church of Scientology is now using an out-tech declare as an excuse not to refund my money. My suspicion is that the Founding Church of Scientology is, in fact, insolvent and cannot repay the monies due to me. But, regardless of whether this is true, it is clear that off-policy, out-tech declares are being used as an excuse (out-tech at that) for keeping money that doees not belong to the Orgs … at least this Org, anyway.
W — your story, sadly, is all too familiar.
By the way, you have one of the other US papers that still do investigative journalism right there in DC. And they have a lot of familiarity with Scientology.
That “auditor” sounds like a perfect product of GAT. They give robots a bad name…
Crush regging.
It’s pretty sad trying to hide criminality behind the “bigot” label…
Would be like the Catholic church being indignant about reporting on child molesting priests “it is utterly offensive that the Times is questioning religious practice.”
DM is in a pickle. He has over-expanded the Church’s real estate holdings to the point that he needs millions each week to support it. He invested so much into expanding book production, but it seems like the only promotion is individual staff members being given quotas to sell and unleashed on the existing public. This is what he calls “incredible expansion.”
Even I received the multiple phone calls (some minutes apart) from Sea Org staff trying to sell me the Basics and, eventually, people coming to my door. I finally had to just start treating the phone calls like the unwanted sales calls that they were and hang up the phone as soon as the person identified themselves. The people coming to the door was more of a problem as they sent old friends, so I spent many an evening in a conversation about why I wasn’t going to buy anything.
I have a tiny amount still sitting on account at my local org. I once tried to debit this to pay for a course for a friend who wanted to do auditor training, but was told that I couldn’t, that it was a “hidden refund.” But I could debit it to buy books. I believe that Staff members are given a commission for book sales, even when they debit an account for it. The staff members who fraudulently debited the accounts of current, resigned or deceased members should have received a commission from these sales. This is theft. Even if the money is credited back on the member’s accounts, there is no way that the Church collected that money back from the staff, who are paid slave wages. The description in the stories of debiting and crediting of accounts tells me that bookkeeping is fuzzy and wide open to embezzlement and fraud.
The stories I read make me wonder if anyone is receiving auditing or getting trained at all, without the constant upset and interruption of heavy sales pressure. Then you have all of the staff who are RPF’d. I can tell you that the public notices when people disappear. The public will get brief glimpses of them slaving away, unable to speak, and looking so downtrodden. It is really disturbing to witness this injustice going on, not be able to use what one knows and is learning to make it right and leaves one with a weird sense of guilt on the whole “mecca of tech” experience.
W. — Ah, but according to the “new policy” we’ve just learned from Karin Pouw: “the church considers parishioners’ pre-payments for services to be donations that become church property.” Apparently the $ now does belong to the org. Makes no sense to me … Rachel
Shoot! Misplaced comment. Goes up under “W.’s” comment.
As Balzac stated once: “”The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly executed.”
Or as is more commonly paraphrased “Behind every great fortune lies a great crime.”
It is so wonderful to see so many engaging in constant alertness and willingness to fight back.
I have a few suggestions for new signs to be posted for public in the orgs:
“You may be asked for donations by any staff member. You may be asked for a loan by any public who has been asked for a donation by any staff member.”
“Your conversation with any staff member who is asking for a donation may be listened into, and/or recorded.”
“Any donation you will make becomes the property of the organization. You will have no further say in its use.”
Where is OTDT when you need him? Rachel
Oh, one more:
“Save a staff member, make a donation.”
Here is the real shame of this whole Basics catastrophe: the materials themselves are fantastic. Many of the lecture series had never been heard by only very few at the time they were given and by no one for decades. Listening to them while reading the books in sequence really does impart a fantastic overview of LRH’s research breakthroughs. As he said, the books were merely summaries of the conclusions he drew from his research and the lectures contained the nitty gritty. The work done by R Comps was excellent in terms of glossaries, typesetting and design. The packaging is beautiful. It should have been a wonderful addition to man’s knowledge about himself. But NOOOOOOOOOO! DM has to drop a turd in very punch bowl he sees and this was no different. For starters Russ Bellin CO CST installed a CD plant at Gold just as CDs were becoming passé. Apple would have gladly made a special iPod that would have contained every lecture for comparatively dirt cheap compared to the current Basics prices (and Apple’s stuff is expensive by comparable standards to other companies). Then, he waited 3 1/2 years after Jeff Hawkins, Mariette Lindstein and I had the basic marketing worked out (Golden Age of Knowledge was a name I came up with and DM jumped on it immediately. Mariette and I mentioned it in passing to him one day in the Building 50 conference room). Imagine that on-lines lurkers, the Basics release and that Materials Grade Chart that takes up one whole wall of your home was written by three former Marketing people who could no longer stand being around your Pope and got the hell out while we still had our wits about us. Then, of course there is DM’s shark feeding frenzy marketing strategy which was probably the only thing he could think of that would guarantee that these materials would be tainted forever by the associative restimulator of sleep-deprived, hollow-eyed, desperate staff members implementing Night of the Living Dead sales tactics. I know people who bought the Basics who never even opened the boxes. Lost in all of this is the beauty of LRH’s discoveries.
Davey’s intention is to eventually get rid of all non-SO staff. Have public buy the buildings and donate funds for the IAS to purchase them, the Church’s property holding company owns them, collecting rent, he “supplements” Class V Org staff w/ SO Staff until that’s all there is, so all he has to do is pay their puny stipends – which is a very calculated attempt in his mind to get and keep as much money as he possibly can. He would collect a much higher percentage on all services, facilities and materials while having others foot the bill for their acquisitions and pay as little as possible to keep them manned up. Total domination and control is his target. Just wait and see as more and more Class V Org staff disappear and are replaced with temporary SO staff.
WH,
Sometimes my flippancy is ill-placed. Good luck to Dave.
Loss is pain according the Ron. I don’t look at bad experience as loss. It’s just experience. Like Frankl.
I like the long view. I prefer the havingness of understandings gained, enlightenments achieved rather than hardships endured.
No to quotas and stats. Hiss, boo!
Yes to families and friends. yeah!
TWD,
Since ALL religions are doing it….
How about this sign “Remember The Inquisition? Donate now–or else!”
Sue,
I just tell them he (me) is not there, that he went to Alaska with his gay lover. Or that he’s in a meeting with the state senator discussing abuses in the church. Or whatever comes to mind. There are so many WTF things to say.
After all, I figure I’m cause over my communications. Nothing these clowns say abrogates that simplicity. And handling their comm is pretty interesting.
George,
You are looking at it from a survival, rational viewpoint. Look at it from the viewpoint of a whole track SP, bent on destroying Scientology. Then the release of the Basics, putting ALL staff on insane quotas with penalties for not achieving them, the frenzied and unprecedented push onto the public to buy them by the dozen, even when they could not afford them… it all makes sense. And let’s not forget the little marvel of altered importance added to all of it… “Everyone is to do the Basics NOW.” As a result, people that were anemically making some progress towards becoming an auditor, were pulled off of that training and were put on the Basics. Public that were in the middle of a course (PTS/SP, Ethics, whatever) were put on the Basics. OT VIII’s were forcibly made to do the Basics interrupting their OT VIII course! This order was an arbitrary of such magnitude, an example of altered importance for the ages to come, such a flagrant violation of policy regarding the use and purpose of academies, that I place its long-term damaging effects and Scientology destruction potential right up there with the idle org strategy, the IAS and its decades-long ravaging of public, and of course, GAT with it’s infamous 3-swing-floating-needle–you-ain’t-got-it-so-I-will-repeat-the-question-even-though-we’ve-been-on-the-same-question-for-three-hours.
All we can do is be the voice for those who don’t dare or don’t want to voice the infinity of outpoints and abuses. They see them, they are not stupid. They just brush them under the carpet. And there is so much stuff under the carpet by now, that it’s almost reaching the ceiling. They’ll wake up, just like we all did. Because the thetan natively knows the truth, however he tries to not look at it, the truth is right there staring at him.
It’s a process.
Luis
Everyone on this did a great job, and we should particularly thank Tom Tobin and Joe Childs.
And as for the “church” LRH said there is evidence for the theory that the dynamics ARE help — the evidence being that when you stop helping the dynamics, they vanish for that individual. And we can certainly see that happening around the CoS. SPs cannot help anyone. As a result the human perimeter of the “church” is vanishing faster than the Aral Sea shoreline.
I agree with you. I am in communication with some people who are out now and enjoying life.
Thanks to you as well for being here.
Good one!
Hello Everybody! There’s a lot more to the story than what was in the St Pete Times. I’ll be doing a free workshop at the upcoming Freezone convention in Vegas on how to get your money back, not just the paperwork, releases and how to get those right, but the strategies as well. I also have the lines with the attorneys in Florida whether you are suing or not. (do not sign a gag order, period, call me if you need help now on a cycle) It took me 9 months and 16 days.
When you see what really went down you won’t believe it. I am certain it was my KR on Tommy Davis and Int Execs that got him put away. It got me months of “2 on 1” meetings with OSA, being refused service for 8 months unless I would change my mind. I assigned Int Execs treason for the lies and alteration of the most basic Scientology tech exposed in that interview by the very guys claiming to be “keeping the tech pure”. That was after I was going through hell for my KR on the gross revisions of the FPRD. As soon as I figure out how to do a blog I’ll have it all online. : )
Joe was great, we spent months on the phone and he’s heard the real story, however I will never forgive and Moe the photographer for not allowing me to smile or see the photo beforehand. I understand they want to make us look like we are “lost and hurt” from the suppression but OMG publishing that horrible photo of me on my 50th birthday for the world to see me as a poor victim?! Do I seem lost or hurt to you? I win everytime against them, period. Remember The Little Yellow House? 1 million dollars, how did I do that? That’s another story and that also took 9 months of daily back and forth and threats of declare in my kitchen after 12 years of keeping that property from investors. I could write a book about the story of that property. But who won? They’ve only had a taste of me. Attempting to steal all that money off my account was the smallest crime they committed against me in 33 years. I handled that easily back in December of last year. I’m still on post and I’m still working for LRH. They know I’m not going away. Okay you guys, are we ready to take it to the next level or what?!!! Anyone can reach me at carisamarion@gmail.com
Right back at you, Sam.
Well…..if you donate money to the church for spitirual services you can deduct that on your taxes in the US. If they then misappropriate some of that money for books, CDs, Emeters, etc., the “donations” are converted to non deductible purchases of goods and you must add the amount back to your taxable income. So I guess Ms. Pouw is saying that the chuch has the right to take your donation and make it “not a donation” without your approval. Amazing.
Of course if the books, CDs, etc are then “donated’ to a library, etc., the donation is still deductible. Then all you have to worry about is whether the church statement correctly shows all this in case you are audited.
ML & MR,
My two dudes. I know I’m preaching to the choir but I will state it here for the benefit of those reading who either have kool-aid still in their system or are in the transfusion stage of cleaning it out.
Back in 2007/08 when I was hit up routinely to buy the Basic’s I couldn’t help but humor myself at applying what I know to be workable and true, and that was LRH.
First my mom and then those “by-passing” my mom to get the sale, called and called. With exception of my momma, all efforts started out honest and straight forward. The same song was played over and over… “Buy now and with the data you get from the materials, you will pay off the debit faster than you knew it existed”. BS I couldn’t help but laugh at them over the phone. They were telling me to by the very book that states.. ” economize and then make very, very sure that you don’t buy anything that has any future commitment to it; don’t buy anything with any future commitments; don’t hire anybody with any future commitments – nothing. That’s all part of economy; clamp it down.” LRH Affluence Formula Step 1 quoted from the first pre – GAT 1998 ethics book and believe it or not, quoted as the same in the GAT version 2006.
Through all the attempts of trying to get me to buy something for which I did not have the money to buy, I am proud to say I am living the life many others reading here wish they could be living ….. debt free. This isn’t to say that I don’t owe small sum’s here and there or to the electric company right now but that is a given as we all know. I make the money to HAVE ELECTRICITY.
I even went so far as asking the WUS Staffers calling and by-passing my momma, who was now in trouble by the way for not making the sale with me, “How can one honestly be wearing their PC Hat when in session damm well knowing that the auditing they are getting that very second is on money borrowed from another??” Be it through a financial institution, friend, mortgage, 401 etc…” My ruds would never go in.” Viscous circle.
Shit, it was hard enough when IG Ethics was sec-checking me full time for months when I was on staff! I was simply distracted by him being taken off of other important matters to sec-check ME… little ol’ ME!
Back to my story… All I got each time was silence. I told them that IF I HAD THE MONEY, YOU’D MOST LIKELY GET A SALE. SINCE I DO NOT, STOP ASKING AS YOU ARE OTHERWISE PUSHING ME TO VIOLATE THE VERY MATERIALS YOUR TRYING TO SELL ME.
Within a week, the calls stopped. I later found out that my momma, a 32 year Sea Org Vet was first made wrong for drawing Social Security and thus having money. To avoid the ever increasing demeaning pressure, she gave in and “bought” $40,000 worth of Basic’s Packages from credit she never knew she had.
That’s right, a 32 year Sea Org Vet who prior to 2007/08 was not in debt, now was significantly in debt. Here’s the kicker, she bought $40K worth of basics for other SO staff who “promised” to pay her back. You and I know how predictable the outcome of this scenario is. It would be like buying said Basic Packages for homeless people with the promise they will become more enabled and thus pay their debt back to you.
I insisted with her that she generate promissary notes from each in writing that they acknowledge the debt with her because as you and I know, they will inevitably be shipped off to other parts of the world and she will never be able to contact them and get their payments.
How is it that a Church who prides itself on living an honest way of life can bilk their own out of $40K they do not have, and could NEVER HAVE on $50 a week. Do the math…. it would take just under 17 years of them handing over their $50 each week to the credit card company. That is if they are paid each and every week.
This on top of yet another 17 years of hard work in the SO just to pay off what they bought in 2008. Imagine, finally paying off this debt in the year 2025 for something bought in 2008. That’s weird in concept all on it’s own. Besides what about the next round of re-releases, how is it she is gonna buy those? Fucking idiots!
Anyway, there’s my contributing real life story.
— Jackson
W, it is not true that you can’t get your money back because of a bogus declare. this is all the ammunition you need to get it back with. I would write to the legal portion of this org and carbon, Attorney General, consumer protection department,
the Better Business Bureau, the newspaper, your Senator, Congressman/women…I would not stop until I received every dime back. These so-called representatives of this so-called church can say what they want however, there are legal ramifacations when it comes to paying for something and not getting what was paid for in good faith. There is no policy that I have ever seen that states that once one is declared all monies put on account for services now belongs to the COS.
Excellent comment Dan, thank you.
ARC,
Dave F
Thank you to the SP Times and to all who participated in getting the truth out. There are many schemes contributed to on this planet, however, this one is beyond the beyond for me this lifetime…..in the name of a religious practice. This has nothing to do with religion. It has all to do with GREED.
No, no. It took that long to get the three-swing F/N mandated by POB! Dual purpose: exam AND reg. Win-Win!
Luis,
you’ve been putting out some great posts for all to see,this included.You know, there are some wonderfully simple, yet totally UNDER RATED methods to accomplish this.
Take one’s own body, for example. Let’s say you have just eaten something and then find IT just doesn’t AGREE with
you. Nature steps in and helps you out.A-R-G-G-G-H-H-H ( COUGH!) URRR-G-G-H ! (COUGH! SPLUTTER!) and yet one more try,JUST for good measure!.. A-R-R-G-G-H-H ! There ! THAT should do it! (SNIFF! SNIFF! WIPE! WIPE!)
Anyway, you get the drift ! IT’S GONE!! (silently saying to one’s self “NEVER GONNA TOUCH THAT CRAP AGAIN!”).
What though,if the “something” was just so nauseatingly,
“kotchingly, REPULSIVE,just by the SIGHT & SMELL of it that IT just simply ” KEPT ” you at a “SAFE” distance ??
I am and remain convinced, that an aware,switched -on
person, naturally ” senses ” anything that may be “hostile”
to their survival, providing the ” nausea factor ” is present
This natural ‘NAUSEA FACTOR’ just happens to be the “perfect” REVERSE / BLACK MISCAVOLOGY unbundling
technique, {though not necessarily recognised as such). But, it’s playing out now ! the STENCH is unbearable!!!
Hold your nose,brother, but keep those GREAT TR’s of
yours IN. You’re sure to miss nothing !!!
Got my gas mask on, Li’ll bit
Thanks Carol. I will take your advice. I had, in fact, already started to compile a list of people to write to.
Scott (or “W” as I sometimes use as a pen name.)
Mike, thank you. I agree that he won’t talk other than to avoid prison term. But I am not sure he has nothing to offer me, for example. I would like my church back. I don’t want it the way it is now but I would want it back if it were reformed.
Thanks Carisa for enhancing this blog with your fightin’ words. Go to wordpress.com – setting up a blog is easy.
Brilliant.
Me too.
Jackson,
This is LOW. Like really low.
Wonder how she is doing on her debt handling….?
BTW — I have a better line.
Don’t throw your money in the toilet and you will have a lot more to be able to buy whatever you want!
I had an interesting coversation with someone recently concerning the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, and how, since they left the RCS they had expanded on EVERY dynamic and even had money to be able to live and spend 2D time and also go up the Bridge! It was an interesting perspective as I am sure it is true for everyone who stops nuzzling at the KoolAid teat.
Carisa,
Great job!
And I know what you mean about the photos — you learn from experience with that! You looked fine, nobody is going to look at your photo and go “oh, she looks like a sad victim” — they are going to look at your photo as they read the story and think “wouldnt want to mess with that woman, she kicked their asses and got her money back.” 🙂
Good going, and nice to see you here.
OnceUponaTime
Michael. I am pretty sure that the Inquisition is well and truly upon us. OSA is the “Witchsmeller Persuivant” and David Miscavige is the “Grand Inquisitor”.
If you do not instantly comply to absolutely everything that David Miscavige wants, you will first be relentlessly harassed, and then tortured until compliance is achieved, or failing that, you will be “declared” (excommunicted) and then he will let out his OT and legal “hounds” with orders to rip you apart publically.
And that is the summation of David Miscavige’s understanding of “For The Greatest Good”.
Eric S
Bob (….I want…)
rest assured, the toppling of MAD-CABBAGE towers is well and truly under way! The cracks,fissures and mini-midget pops and explosions,ARE the reactionary “ridiculous drivel” that the public just aren’t buying any more.
Won’t be long now, but step back.don’t get caught in the rubble and dust of this FAILED, UTTERLY DESTRUCTIVE collapse.
While we will try to mop up the aftermath, which won’t be easy, given the unprecedented “MISDAMAGE” done, at least one
consolation,WE have tools, truth and REAL SCIENTOLOGY to straighten this all out.
Remember this is all just a GAME within GAMES. I’m sure we will all soon be caught up in the RESURGENCE of real fun
times again, just as LRH intended them to be!! Yes,indeed!
Much luv to ALL YOU wonderful FELLOW THETANS ,Li’ll bit.
Michael & Marty,
Man do I just LOVE the POWER in you guys !! The best part
is, it rubs off onto us. THANK YOU FOR EXUDING IT ! So tell you what, MORE power to YOU! OKAY ?
Spot on Rachel!!
Thanks to Luis, Rocio, Hy, and Brian for speaking up. Knew it was bad, but not THAT bad. An thanking Tom Tobin and Joe Childs. over on the newspaper site. They are doing a great reporting job, but they could not do it if you all did not step forward.
New definition of FN – 3 swings and 3 basics packages!
Luis – you are absolutely right. It’s an SP bringing down an org from the inside by doing things that have the appearance of being pro-survival but in fact are highly destructive. I know there’s a reference to that in one of the PLs, but I can’t remember which one.
It was all very deliberately planned out. The “golden age” of tech turned parishoners into sheep – don’t ask, just do. From then on it was easy to get everyone to jump at “command intention” and “buy, buy, buy” because COB says so.
So much for making the able more able, eh?
I’ve been a fundraiser for the better part of two decades and I’ve often been astonished by the Co$’s manipulation of their tax status. Because the “church” bullied and extorted its way into a secret agreement with the IRS, members of the Co$ are allowed to take a tax-deduction for their “prepaid services.” That agreement has allowed them to get away with a whole lot. However, in this instance, I think they’ve finally gone a step too far.
The one thing that is very clear about the “prepaid services” money that parishioners have on account is that it has not been given as a general donation to be used as the organization chooses, but it has been accepted and “put on account” to be used for a very specific purpose. In fundraising (and legal) parlance, that means the money is considered a “restricted” donation. So, despite the special IRS agreement, it is absolutely illegal for an organization receiving restricted funds to expend those funds on anything other than what the donor has explicitly earmarked them for. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a church, The Red Cross (who got into trouble related to misuse of restricted funds after 9/11) or PBS. If a donor has given money for a specific purpose, it is illegal for an organization to use those funds in any other way.
So, Karen Pouw and her pals can say that the church “… considers parishioners’ pre-payments for services to be donations that become church property…” and that “…most parishioners claim tax deductions for their donations, indicating they have relinquished ownership of the funds…” all they want, but even with their special IRS agreement, they still are required to have a refund policy in place (which I know they do not follow unless forced or embarrassed into). That refund requirement is a very a clear indication that the IRS also believes that these funds are considered restricted. And utilizing those donations in any way other than intended by the donor (pre-paid services), is against the law, plain and simple.
And although their tax status makes it much easier to hide (because as a “church” they are not required to file tax returns), there is no religious exemption for misappropriation of funds.
Thanks, Carisa! Can’t wait to see your blog.
This is very interesting! So let me get this straight:
1) Before leaving Flag in Fall 2005, I add funds to my service account to bring the fully paid intensive total to two and a dollar value of $15,238.44. This is shown on a “Parishioner Statement.”
2) In February 2006, I receive the “Annual Parishioner Statement” from Flag which shows total tax deductible donations for the 2005 year to be $27,721.48.
3) My tax accountant uses this reported amount to prepare my taxes in addition to the $4000 paid to FSSO for OTVIII.
4) In December 2008, I receive a “Parishioner Statement” which shows I now only have $14,663.44 for the two previously paid-in-full intensives, and they are no longer paid-in-full. The statement shows deductions totaling $200 for extension course packs. I have noted on the statement that I did not authorize the deduction of books from my account and refused shipment of same. A total of $575 had been deducted for books and extension course packs. At this point, should I have amended my US Individual Income Tax Return for 2005 because of the false report?
5) In later 2009, I spoke to Jose from the President’s Office at Flag. She said she would handle this account by getting the earlier packs recredited and invoicing a new set to be put on my credit card. In the end, the credit card charge for the books and ext course packs ended up being $615.00 and there were duplicates invoiced as well as one pack in Dutch. Crazy business! But, by my paying money for the books and packs, I helped Flag cover up the debiting of books from my account without my authorization. In addition, it set things right with the IRS, right?
6) In early 2010, I worked with yet another staff member to get this account straightened out and I believe it was done as closely as possible. I ended up with the two intensives paid-in-full at $15,112.50 and a partially paid intensive at $365.94. I ended up with a full set of the books and a set of the extension course packs.
I also ended up with a great sense of distrust for these finance lines. The highest condition is liability as the admin is so OUT. And now I find out in the statement of Karin Pouw that “the church considers parishioners’ pre-payments for services to be donations that become church property.”
Crazy out-ethics business! Rachel
Eric,
Just imagine what the little shit would do if he could get away with it.
Because of the “misappropriation of funds” the church is out admin and by the SP times article out ethics and out tech. Whats left?
I fell so bad for you Luis and Rocio. You guys were such a great part of that church. I too am “kicked to the curb” after all my hard work and dedication, but Ill let it be known… I wanted out. I asked for my label. At first I never thought they would get it approved, but hey, I no longer lose sleep at night worrying about stuff that just doesn’t matter in the “real world”.