Zealots and Extremists – Food for Thought

People are zealous for a cause when they are not quite positive that it is true.

– Bertrand Russell

In our country are evangelists and zealots of many different political, economic and religious persuasions whose fanatical conviction is that all thought is divinely classified into two kinds-that which is their own and that which is false and dangerous.  – Robert H Jackson (US Supreme Court Justice 1941-1954)

What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists, is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.

-Robert Kennedy

Some extremists take elements of the sacred scriptures out of context.

– Cat Stevens (referring to his faith, Islam)

Saving everybody takes a man on a mission
with a swagger that can set the world at ease
Some believe it’s God’s own hand on the trigger
and the other dumping water in the streets
Talking tough is easy when it’s other people’s evil
and you’re judging what they do or don’t believe
It seems to me you’d have to have a hole you’re own
to point a finger at somebody else its a shame

– A Ghost To Most, Drive-By Truckers


83 responses to “Zealots and Extremists – Food for Thought

  1. Re Cat Stevens: So that’s why he called for the assassination of Salman Rushdie?

  2. Bertrand Russell has just perfectly described the way I and many of my friends in the church acted for many years around those “wogs” that seemed to be everywhere you looked.

  3. I approve of this. Only by respecting others can the Indie movement hope to gain respect from others.

    But it does make one wonder where one stands when it comes to “Clearing the Planet.” How should I interpret the following?

    “When somebody enrols, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe – never permit an ‘open-minded’ approach… If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us – win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half minded about being Scientologists… When Mrs. Pattycake comes to us to be taught, turn that wandering doubt in her eye into a fixed, dedicated glare… The proper instruction attitude is, ‘We’d rather have you dead than incapable.’”

    – L. Ron Hubbard, KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING, 7 February 1965, reissued 27 August 1980

    “We’re playing for blood, the stake is EARTH.”

    – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 7 November 1962

  4. martyrathbun09

    I think he demonstrated his own warning by becoming a zealot and going extremist.

  5. Tom cruise WW3

    HA HA! This post is kind of a joke, but I saw Tom Cruises Mission impossible 4 last night and my Russian friends commented that the movie portrayed Russians as stupid and evil and of course arrogant Cruise was portrayed as the American agent that saved us from ww3 when he is actually creating more antagonism with the propaganda movie. Tom Cruise the PTS savior of Earth. He’s a legend in his own mind.

    Check this out. LRH says never “We do not want Scientology to be reported in the press anywhere else but on the religion page of newspapers. It is destructive of word of mouth to permit the public press to express their biased and badly reported sensationalism. Therefore we should be very alert to sue for slander at the slightest chance so as to discourage the public press from mentioning Scientology.”

    Whoever advised Tom Cruise to go on a media blitz promoting Scientology was giving him some serious out-tech that was destructive to his career and caused the spawn of the anonymous movement when he accepted an award for introducing LRH tech to Billions. HA! Why is this humorous? Because outpoints are funny.

    Is this guy ever going to realize that there is a counter intention to his intention or his he just going to keep on being right in his own mind?

    “Dianetics and Scientology are more a CRUSADE for sanity than they are a business…[An auditor] is also wasted processing nothing but movie stars and millionaires…”

    L. Ron Hubbard – “Dianetics and Scientology A Crusade” p. 393 Tech Volume II

    Scientology grows from DMSMH books sales and from word of mouth. Period. No movie star has ever helped us.


  6. We are human beings and as such we like to be on the winning team. That’s OK.

    It’s when winning AT ALL COSTS overrides the goodness of the message.

    IF you are a scientologist, then you consider that this is your path. And you should be dedicated and train to become capable and a stellar practitioner/auditor.

    That’s not the problem.

    The problem becomes when the leader actually creates your death rather than allowing you to step side-ways for awhile and sort things through. Or, when you are not allowed to actually follow early LRH instructions about finding out for yourself.

    The PROBLEM becomes when you become incapable, through lack of sleep, food, kindness and care, to THINK. When instead of a person/thetan there is a POLICY where your heart should be.

    I don’t believe LRH ever said to substitute your heart for KSW or any other series. It’s really not rocket science.

    It’s ultimately — HAVE you become a kinder person towards everyone OR are you still the same dualistic SOB or wimp or low energy or low IQ you were when you walked through the door the first time. (I’m not using “you” here to mean specifically you, Mr. Fancy – but the general “you)

    ONLY you can know. But truly — you, Mr. Fancy can reconcile LRH KSW yourself.

    After all ultimately it’s always ONLY up to you.


  7. For a brief time, the tabulation of truth was put forward on Earth and boy wasn’t it attacked, vilifed and made wrong in all sorts of ways. The time of that truth was when LRH was actively on lines.
    Since he’s left the truth has been ever so carefully manipulated, hidden, worked upon to suit vested interest and just plain old spat upon.
    There really was a good reason KSW1 was written.
    Once again the doors are closing. The truth has become unfashionable and inappropriate to all but those who prize her for her healing capabilities.
    The GPM at work is one hell of a powerful influence, it’s strength lies in the fact it’s hidden below hidden, below hidden. The zealots and extremists of life are a great example of the R6 bank at play.

  8. what he said about salman rushdie was not cool and goes against the Muslim faith. For years he wanted to be disassociated with his music and while he didn’t actually say it was due to his faith, it was date coincident with it.

    Now, he is performing his music again and taking a less extremist view.

    He explains his reasoning in a Rolling Stone article in 2000, namely that he was citing the Koran (Qu’ran) literally when asked about blasphemy and that he was new to the faith.

    I think we’ve all been down the path of being somewhat extremist, mellowing and living to tell the tale.

  9. and according to him, he didn’t actually call for a ‘fatwa’ on Salman Rushie, according to him; he was asked, by a reporter, hypothetically, about blasphemy per the Muslim faith, so he recited the citation.

  10. It is my personal belief (not backed up my any LRH quote that I know) that fanatics are in a manic valence. Which gives them the feeling that they are “high toned” – while in fact they are just “high”.

  11. George M. White

    The Buddha was seated under the open sky, on a night of blinding darkness, while oil lamps were burning. At that time a great number of moths and other insects were flying around and falling into those oil lamps, thus meeting with ruin. The Buddha saw this and compared these moths to zealots when he said:

    “Rushing up but then too far, they miss the point;
    Only causing ever newer bonds to grow.
    So obsessed are some by what is seen and heard.
    They fly just like these moths — straight into the flames. ”


    PS Mr. Miscavige would do well to heed this verse.

  12. Mr. Fancy

    Notice that this communication is referring to those who have come to Scientology for its help. I sincerely doubt that LRH ever intended it to be “exported” to the general populace.

    Those who have come to Scientology for help are to be delivered the real goods. We are not to get all “reasonable” and be willing to succumb to their various aberations. By this statement L.Ron Hubbard has made a pact with anyone who “enrolls” that they will be EFFECTIVELY handled with all the technologies at our disposal, and that we will not let “case” derail that intention.

    It is a similar pact to the one that an auditor makes with his Preclear. Once you have started the session, as an auditor, it is your duty, and your responsibility, and your agreement, that you will not abandon the Preclear simply because he runs into some aberration or other. You are his guide. You cannot simply walk away and leave him should he decide to sit down and rest, or because you have decided that “he is too much trouble”. You have a contract, and a responsibility, to get him through it, to the best of your ability, whatever you run into.

    Now, if someone chooses to “part ways”, ( chooses another guide) then this agreement would no longer apply. The “church”, quite rightly, would no longer consider such a person aligned with that intention.

    Miscavige, and some others, seem to think that this statement by LRH gives them “carte blanche” to dominate and suppress the will of absolutely ANYONE, in or outside of Scientology. They have totally moved away from the basic agreement to HELP, and are firmly fixated on “control”. (as in suppress and dominate.)

    Totally different purposes and goals.

    Eric S

  13. Scientology is a subject,if not duplicated well, has the liability of “Seriousness” and can, with the wrong leader, be used to create out of control zealots. That can be achieved by taking Hubbard out of context, cherry picking that which forwards one’s own agenda and penalizing anyone for not taking all of that literally and of course, altering the Tech so it implants.
    Hubbard made alot of very bold statements, but he also gave many dimensions to his viewpoints,if one reads enough of what he has written.I have read and worked enough with his Tech to know with certainty that he was not out to create robots or zealots. I don’t consider myself to be either,.Even though I have taken the subject very seriously, paradoxically, I have also done it with alot of insouciance. With every serious statement Ron has made, not too far away is the concept of “If its not fun, its not Scientology.”

  14. Li'll bit of stuff

    Mr. Fancy, If you were to take LRH’s words literally, they
    COULD be construed to be BRUTAL. If,however, you
    connect the dots, correctly “Mrs. Pattycake……comes..
    to US….to be…..taught…. proper instruction.ATTITUDE…
    ..rather…..dead…. than…..incapable.”

    Just his way with words, my man, not to be taken soooo seriously!!

    Not to minimise the intention to achieve a TOUGH,
    and RESOLUTE end product, by insisting on flubless
    correctly trained, high ARC, KRC, individuals, capable
    of confronting, influencing and putting some order into a chaotic world around them, if only for the sake of everyone’s SANITY and thereby ‘Survival’

    Do you duplicate & understand, Mr.Fancy ??

  15. What I find to be true is that BOTH zealots and extremists have a complete inability to operate pan-determined on the dynamics. Whether due to false data, evil intentions, ignorance or the unwillingness on their part to honestly determine what is real for them. Thus both, zealots and extremists, become and operate only on other determinism. Unable to rise to self determinism they have no ability to become pan-determined.

    Accepting something on face value with no understanding or honest evaluation results on operating on held down 7’s. Not allowing any other viewpoint but their own decreases their world down to a tiny tiny speck of dust. Yet, each merrily goes on their way thinking they have the world in the control. Delusional, life passes them by. Unfortunately, many times there is chaos and destruction occurring until we are past their stuck picture of a stuck person on a dust mote.

    They have but to honestly look and apply the correct tech and this aberration too would go poof and all could be moving up a little higher.

  16. “When any disordered mind grasps the fundamentals of a thing, one cannot predict the way that mind will use the information. Zealotism has many times made religion odious to a people and zealotism is definitely undesirable to a religious group since it too often masks sadism and paranoia. Churches have long been troubled with this problem. It is not a problem of faith. An orderly faith alone can promote religion. Zealotism is a problem in aberration; it is generally caused by a manic engram and, quite unlike faith, is as likely to flash back against religion as it is to carry it forward. The action is unpredictable and the zealot alters his faith easily.”

    L Ron Hubbard… “Dianetics and Religion” from the “Dianetic Auditor’s Bulletin” October 1950

  17. Exactly Ingrid.

    And that seriousness because of misunderstanding equals MASS. And if that MASS is not as-isd by becoming knowledge instead of significance, it will weigh you down mentally and eventually overwhelm you.

    Above all, I think that Auditors are always sincere in their intention – rather than serious.

  18. Mr. Fancy,
    Windhorse’s response is as well written and simply stated as anything I’ve ever read on this section of the PL.

    I’ve run across two other quotes from Mr. Hubbard recently on the topic as relayed by wh. One is before KSW was written, one after. The “message” hasn’t changed. KSW is about applying the procedures, the “tech” with an aim, always in sight or it is NOT Keeping Scientology Working.

    “It could be said that all the entrapment there is is the waiting one
    does for an answer.
    “Here we find Man. Basically he is an awareness of awareness unit
    which is capable of, and active in, the production of matter, energy,
    space and time as well as ideas. We discover that he is more or less
    fixated upon ideas, matter, energy, space and time and the processes
    and functions involving these. And we discover that these, being the
    products of the awareness of awareness unit, do not supply answers
    to the awareness of awareness unit, and thus the awareness of
    awareness unit supplies itself those answers.” Dianetics 55.

    It is the belief “That he who asks a question is closest to the answer, that every question contains its own answer, and further that every problem contains its own solution, and that the technologies of Scientology are of such a nature that a person with a question or a problem may be spiritually assisted or guided to the end that the person is able to answer his own questions and resolve his own problems. “Scientology Technology” is a body of truths and methods of application, developed by L. Ron Hubbard from his observations and research, which when correctly applied can reveal the soul of man, extend
    his knowledge of the infinite Being to him, and make known what is knowable about God.” L. Ron Hubbard, Bylaws of CST.

  19. George,
    Mr. Miscavige cannot at this time understand this verse, so ensconced, so buried deep down the Know to Mystery Scale is he.

    He’s right up tight to the flame, as close as one could get, and still have it “over there” a mystery, “what the fuck is burning my ass?!” Yep, that’s Dave.

  20. A very important subject Marty. Ingrid, as we’ve known each other for ovr 41 years now (!), I’m going to offer you a friendly challenge in a moment (at the end of this post). Let me say first that I feel Scientology is as valid a religion as any other on Earth and for me PERSONALLY, offers more truth than any other religion. Though that feeling does not preclude inspecting and accepting truths from other religions. A component of the intolerance of religion is the idea that any given religion is COMPLETELY true, that one as a follower simply CANNOT voice out loud (or even to oneself) that one feels something in the religion is not true or even that one simply disagrees with something in the religion. And because MY religion is TOTALLY true, yours CANNOT be, capisce? Last year I attended a Christian Bible Study and when the verse came up that slaves should obey and honor their masters even when abusive, the group just VERY quickly glossed over it with no comment (think it was said by Paul, but that is of no significance, because Christians feel all of the New Testament is divinely inspired, whether said by Jesus himself or Paul or anyone else). I found in Bible Study that one simply passes over quickly anything that does not seem right to one (and I did this in Scientology for decades as well).

    I can read KSW and completely endorse what LRH says about one’s attitude toward the technology of auditing (I felt that way when I was an active auditor, CS and course supe and still feel completely in accord with LRH on those points today). And while I find countless applications/examples in a truth such as to a being “any game is better than no game”, I can ALSO state that I disagree with Ron’s comment about democracy in KSW. I don’t think that what he says there is true (and I DON’T think he’s saying this tongue in cheek, but I’m just giving ONE example here of something Ron says that I don’t personally endorse). I also don’t happen to think it’s true that the ONLY reason someone gives up a study is a misunderstood word. (And I don’t think Ron believed this either as the years went on – though that datum is still repeated in Scientology materials, LRH came up with a number of other study remedies to detect and handle why someone might not continue with a study, such as Study Green Form, Dianetic Student Rescue Intensive, etc).

    The postulate that EVERYTHING in a religion MUST be true, not only fosters a zealotry (WE have the truth and NOBODY else does, so that gives US the right to judge others and what they believe and be as harsh with them as we feel we have to be for the salvation of ourselves and all other beings on the planet). It fosters a blind obediance as well, and I think is a relevant point to bring up on this blog as it definately DOES have something to do with the continued reign of Miscavige. I would say that 99 plus % of the people in Scientology would not DARE to disagree with him, even in a friendly way (and I don’t just mean to his face, Hawkins’ and Headleys’ books make the point that they could not even do so to their wives in the privacy of their own rooms). That is COMPLETE agreement/obediance.

    Ingrid – here’s my friendly challenge to you – is there any datum or even comment by LRH on ANY subject that you either disagree with or simply feel is not true or valid (or even that you have a viewpoint personally that is different than his). I’m reminded of Ron’s comment on the PDC where he says to his audience that while he feels his data about theta phenomena (and the laws of handling these) are completely true, he is also offering a lot of opinions on various subjects in these lectures and invites people to disagree with him as they wish. So whaddaya say?

  21. Beautiful. (Oh, and LOL “dualistic SOB” – nice.) The mountain top to keep one’s eye on is a big one, it’s named “Responsibility”, after someone’s lost St. Bernard, and it can be a real bitch to climb, especially since it isn’t on any maps, and doesn’t have solid rocks and ground and stuff. The top is in the clouds, and I’ve heard it goes on up forever. The air gets thin, but the tourist groups thin out, too Funny thing is, the higher one climbs, the more it feels like home. Beautiful views.

    (LRH just sold climbing boots, you know? Some intro instructions, like not stepping on other climbers’ heads, but nobody really follows the rules.)

  22. And by the way, I’m not attempting in any way to start some sort of “rap session” (as we used to say) about points of disagreement with Ron (to promote his “wrongnesses” or any such deal). What I’m trying to explore or discuss is the idea that beings can be free in their selection and rejection of data, even when that data is presented in their OWN religion. And that there can be a tolerance of IDEAS (just look at Scientology Axiom #2 as to what a being is capable of). When you truly grant beingness to another, you are actually acknowledging that they ARE a being and that they have the abilities and rights of any being.

  23. Zealots and fanatics have a natural tendancy to go out reality with the general public which is an inversion of the ARC triangle and as such should be avoided in practicing Scientology, IMHO.

  24. “Notice that this communication is referring to those who have come to Scientology for its help. I sincerely doubt that LRH ever intended it to be “exported” to the general populace.”

    Then I am confused.

    It seems to me that LRH felt that aberrated individuals should be either turned into Scientologists and brought up the tone scale, or forcibly separated from society:

    “The reasonable man quite ordinarily overlooks the fact that people from 2.0 down have no traffic with reason and cannot be reasoned with as one would reason with a 3.0. There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale [glossary], neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating [glossary] some of their theta [glossary] by any one of the three valid processes [glossary]. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow. … The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society.

    -L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior

    “…any person from 2.0 down on the tone scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind.”

    -L. Ron Hubbard, Science of Survival, part I, page 131

    “Perhaps at some distant date only the unaberrated person will be granted civil rights before law. Perhaps the goal will be reached at some future time when only the unaberrated person can attain to and benefit from citizenship. These are desirable goals…”

    -L. Ron Hubbard, Dianetics, Book 3, Chapter 10

    “If you were to weed out of your past by proper search and discovery those anti-social persons you have known and if you disconnected, you might experience great relief. Similarly, if society were to recognise this personality as a sick being, as they now isolate people with smallpox, both social and economic recoveries could occur. Things are not going to get much better so long as 20% of the population is permitted to dominate and injure the lives and enterprise of the remaining 80%.”

    -L. Ron Hubbard, Introduction to Scientology Ethics, “The Anti-Social Personality: The Anti-Scientologist (Relief)”, page 6

    ‘In the fields of government, police activities and mental health, to name a few, we see that it is important to be able to detect and isolate this personality type so as to protect society and individuals from the destructive consequences upon letting such have free rein to injure others. As they only comprise 20% of the population and as only 2.5% of this 20% are truly dangerous, we see that with a very small amount of effort we could considerably better the state of society.

    -L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 27 September 1966

    So, given the above, I am having a hard time reconciling the idea that LRH merely intended for Scientology auditing to be an individual choice, that he did not intend for it to be “exported” to the general populace.

    Can you show me where I am wrong?

  25. top of the vale

    What DM doesn’t realize – When everything is coming your way, you’re in the wrong lane. – Steven Wright

    DM is soon to realize that his concept of what he thinks is Scientology is no longer fun…therefore it must not be Scientology.

  26. I agree with you, Mick. I love Cat Steven’s music, but to my knowledge he has never fully stepped up to the plate to take responsibility . . . instead he “explains” and justifies. Why not replace him with someone more deserving, like Samuel Johnson (1709-1794)? Here’s his quote: “Slavery is now no where more patiently endured, than in countries once inhabited by the zealots of liberty.”

    Marty—Thought you might want to know that the last line in the great “Drive By Truckers” song you posted should be:
    “to point a finger at someone else’s sheet” –Great pick!

  27. Cat Stevens… but to my knowledge he has never fully stepped up to the plate to take responsibility . . .
    Yes, he did.
    He build schools.
    He makes peacefull music for his religion.
    He cares a lot of other people.

    I saw loads of interviews with this man and I have lots of admiration for him.

    He stopped music because he never was middle class. And he followed his heart. He opened his mind to something bigger than himself.
    His dynamics are all right. So I would say, that his responsibility level is not that bad.

    I love his music, both, his old pop songs and his nasheeds. (No I am not a muslim, I just love the aesthetics of nasheeds.)

    Kind regards,

  28. Mother of Grendel

    Han – I think you are right!

  29. George M. White

    You made me laugh a lot with that reply. Dave the moth, down in flames.

  30. Insightful and brilliant observation, SA. You have indeed struck upon the lock holding the Fourth Dynamic Engram in place.

  31. George M. White

    “When instead of a person/thetan there is a POLICY where your heart should be.”
    I love this. It says it all. I remember when I went in for my last meeting
    at Flag many years ago. The people were really cold. I spent a lot of years and money and the lady talking to me was like a stranger. It really
    turned me off because I felt like I was at one of those carnivals that go around the small towns.

  32. OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    We in RTC demand that this so-called “blog” make it clear that the real extremists and zealots are those apostates who are enturbulating COB RTC as he valiantly and heroically runs every single aspect of the Church of Scientology all by himself. Why just today COB RTC made 1,200 decisions that would normally require 2,000 Sea Org members to decide, Decisions to be made tomorrow by COB RTC include:

    * Silk or satin on the new window treatments of room 515 of CC Int? This is a delicately agonizing aesthetic decision that torments COB RTC. He cannot afford to ARCX a celebrity Scientologist whose sensibilities demand only the finest window treatments. Indeed, COB RTC so very deeply cares about every last Scientologist that we in RTC have compiled every pc’s confessional folder data so that it is at COB’s fingertips on his laptop. It is this attention to detail that allows COB to place his attention on window treatments and the ways in which small cameras and listening devices can be woven seamlessly into fabrics.

    * Another crucial decision: The flawlessly manicured right hand of COB RTC was ruined the other day when yet another Sea Org executive threw their face into COB’s hand with great speed and force. The question demanded of COB is this: Does he need to wear padded boxing gloves to protect his hands during executive meetings due to the group bank of Sea Org that causes executives to repeatedly hurl their faces and bodies into COB’s hands?

    * The Sea Org is literally forcing yet another new Acura upon COB RTC this year at Christmas in a show of ARC and gratitude for the man whom Tom Cruise publicly praised as the greatest of all world leaders. COB RTC does not want to reject the Sea Org’s gift and so now he must decide if he wants all season floor mats or carpeted floor mats on his $60,000 2012 Acura RL. Again, COB must wrestle with practicality versus beauty. Bodily fluids can be easily wiped clean from all season rubber floor mats but such mats are unattractive. This is really a forensic question; What if COB RTC is driving and the Sea Org executive seated in the front passenger seat just willy nilly decides to smash his head against the windshield because an suddenly engram keys in? The blood needs to be cleaned up so that no DNA is left anywhere that might key in, say, an investigator if this incident were trumped up by the executive who turned into an apostate and said COB RTC smashed his face into the windshield. This is a hypothetical. The point is that a new Acura is needed for COB RTC because his old one recently fell off the stern of the Freewinds and into very, very, very deep water by accident during rough seas.

    * COB RTC is conducting an IAS-funded $22,000,000 scuba diving rundown pilot as part of Super Power. COB RTC has determined that while an OT can go exterior from the body while diving at depths below 30 meters (100 feet), it is not desirable in all cases. However, in order to fully answer this technical question, COB RTC is purchasing a specially-equipped Sea Org diving ship that is equipped with a helicopter that can ferry him back and forth between the COB RTC Research Diving Villa and the new diving ship. IAS is generously donating $112,000,000 to make the Sea Org diving ship and helicopter a reality for COB RTC. The tough decisions COB RTC must make include the seating materials to be used on the Sea Org helicopter. Leather is not practical and so a breathable, waterproof surface is required for COB’s comfort. The top seating material experts in London have been hired.

    We in RTC could go on and on about all of the decisions COB RTC is faced with every second of everyday but we must get back on post. We wish that most of you here will come to your senses, do A-E, rejoin the Mother Church, and raise your patron status. This invitation is not open to certain former apostates.They know who they are and they can all rot in hell. Thank you and have a good day.



  33. Nicely put Windhorse. My apologies for being an ass. I need help.

  34. Scientology was for me when I wanted a method of going out of the mess mentally. A mean to attain a higher state. Basically you start to become a scientologist when you pick up the purpose to attain the state of Clear. You feel you are to be improved. It’s “need of help” on the chart. Then you become a “zealot” when you learn to audit, you are very dedicated to audit standardly to have the result and have an happy PC. And that is as far as it goes. Now in the process you often meet some idiots which are dramatizing duress, because they are 1,5 or below on the tone scale. Usually they cannot make anyone happy and certainly not audit as they are more interesting (need to prove their ego) than to be interested. On the old days, anyone who couldn’t audit would “help” on the GO. Politics, militantism, zealotism are for idiots, low IQ homo sapiens. Then they say “my chuch”, “my religion”, “give me all your money” but they simply cannot find the BPC of anyone nor even to listen.
    With the advent of the little dictator who is a rotten stinking homo sapiens of the worst kind, we became a “real” religion with all the shit which goes with it. Already before him at the time of Jane Kember it was already fanatic and zealot.
    It’s all explained on “an essay on management”. This is the story of authoritarian personnality.
    Look at the tone scale they are just 1,5 and below, and it’s happen anywhere in any group (religious political), they have to be right and others wrong, it’s just the tone scale below 2.
    The sad thing is despite LRH teaching, scientologists have been remaining so stupid. A big victory of MEST beings. The “Church” of Real Estate, what a mockery of the real thing!

  35. one of those who see

    Wow Bela, Fantastic, important and relevant quote by LRH. Thank you.

  36. one of those who see


  37. Bela,
    Great reference! Thanks!

  38. Joe-I’m assuming the challenge is about zealotry-for me agreements or disagreements is not the main premise of whether a person is a zealot or not. Zealotry is blind belief without understanding. Once zealotry is keyed in, then of course uninspected agreements and disagreements occur. The way I feel about Ron as far as agreements go is like how I am with a best friend-we agree on the important issues and the rest I don’t really care about.

  39. WH,

    This was beautifully expressed and presented an answer without actually trying to “interpret” the reference!

    A Scientology org as LRH ran it in 1965 was very different compared to an org today. Back then there were TWO purposes of the org: 1) To train auditors and 2) to make Clears and OTs – all using Scientology technology.

    (Note the original recipients of KSW #1 and then ask yourself if this reference should be included as the first issue in a WISE course pack? The original issue was only to tech terminals.)

    LRH knew that the technology was at that point WORKABLE – maybe not perfect, but workable as had been empirically demonstrated. So, if you were in the business of training auditors, or being an auditor administering Scientology to a PC, you had better do it EXACTLY or otherwise the technology would cease to be WORKABLE.

    Very simple if you really look at it.

    Just like bridge building. It has its own technology. The coefficients of construction materials are known. The force vectors of ways of construction are fully known down to their very mathematical calculations. The wear and tear can be predicted, etc. If you don’t follow these rules exactly the bridge will break and people will die. Nobody in the right mind would argue this fact, and for anyone to become a bridge engineer he would have to learn all factors exactly – and nobody would find this extreme or strange, but simply the obvious..

    Now, would the bridge engineer be expected to apply the same coefficients to the subject of building his own garage? Well, the basics principles would and could be applied (just like Scientology can be in life in general) but garage building has its own factors which require that you also learn the subject of garage building in full, which doesn’t oppose bridge building, but is just another subject.

    KSW applies to the delivery of auditing and to the training of auditors and as such there couldn’t be any other way, or the technology will get lost and the subject will cease to be workable, which can ironically be demonstrated through the “embodiment of KSW itself” David Miscavige who has effectively enforced a “Black KSW” on the Scientology community and rendered the technology, purpose, aura and tone level of Scientology and Scientologists unworkable through the reverse application of this same policy letter.

    He is not “applying” KSW; he is abusing KSW to the exact ends KSW was written to ensure would not happen.

  40. +1
    great connection of points!

  41. Every penny you spend on watching Tom Cruise’s movies, you are actually donating to the church of Scientology and flowing the cult power. Did you know this?

  42. Priceless!

  43. According to Wkikipedia:

    Salman Rushdie controversy
    Main article: Cat Stevens’ comments about Salman Rushdie

    The singer attracted controversy in 1989, during an address to students at London’s Kingston University, where he was asked about the fatwa calling for the death of author Salman Rushdie. The media interpreted his response as support for the fatwa. Yusuf released a statement the following day denying that he supported vigilantism, and claiming that he had merely recounted the legal Islamic punishment for blasphemy. In a BBC interview, he displayed a newspaper clipping from that period, with quotes from his statement. Subsequent comments made by him in 1989 on a British television programme were also seen as being in support of the fatwa. In a statement in the FAQ section of one of his Web sites, Yusuf asserted that while he regretted the comments, he was joking and that the show was improperly edited. In the years since these comments, he has repeatedly denied ever calling for the death of Rushdie or supporting the fatwa.

    Also from Wikipedia:

    He has been given several awards for his work in promoting peace in the world, including the 2003 World Award, the 2004 Man for Peace Award, and the 2007 Mediterranean Prize for Peace. In 2006, he returned to pop music with his first album of new pop songs in 28 years, entitled An Other Cup.

    Maybe we shouldn’t draw and quarter, boil in oil and hang him quite yet….

  44. OTVIIIisGrrr8! !!!
    ROFL ! 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
    Laughter is good.
    line charge = healthy release of charge.

  45. Izhar Perlman - Lisbon

    OTVIIIisGrrr8! This is so funny but too close to reality to be comfortable 🙂

  46. I forget her name. She was Steve Besio’s FSM partner at Flag. Long, reddish, curly hair. Chain smoked and was on OT 7…… Anyway…..

    Best quote ever I heard her say one time:

    something to the effect:

    “We are the only ones who can do anything. Look at Mother Theresa, look at her stats. Did any of those kids leave the orphanage? And see, the world loves her. She may have even been an SP”

  47. Thanks,
    that’s a perfect LRH quote about this subject indeed !
    “sadism and paranoia” … so very true …

  48. your great write-up has just convinced me to finally start on my A – E steps 😉

  49. The focus on ‘Ideals’ can so often cause a dissociation in personality.
    You know you and your cause is ‘good’, some things to further your cause you find distasteful (and rightly so) so you ignore you ‘gut’ feelings and create separate identities to enable those actions.
    That is the start of the spiral.and all to soon the mioral and ethical brakes give way!

    Bashar al-Assad President of Syria clearly believes his intentions of ‘Democracy’, however once the identity split starts it is hard to stop,

    ‘Model of democracy’
    At a news conference in Damascus, Mr Muallem said the Syrian government had agreed to the Arab League’s peace initiative because it wanted a “political solution to [the] crisis in order to emerge from it in the best way possible”.
    Walid Muallem Syrian Foreign Minister
    “We want t… build a safe, modern Syria – a Syria that will be a model of democracy,” he added.

  50. It means “Don’t be wishy-washy.” If you are going to learn and apply Scientology, learn and apply it. Don’t try to run a session like a psychoanalyst, and don’t substitute TM for TR-0.

    The intended audience is people who would do something other than Scientology when on staff or on course.

  51. Tony DePhillips

  52. Tony DePhillips

    Well said Ingrid. You are a great example of non-seriousness.

  53. Tony DePhillips


  54. martyrathbun09


  55. martyrathbun09

    You are spot on.

  56. martyrathbun09


  57. top of the vale

    While we’re on the subject of RTC and its ‘wiles’, we thought that an education in ‘chloral hydrate’ would give those who have no reality on its administration and side effects. This will give one an idea of what one can expect from it’s use.

    Chloral Hydrate is a colorless transparent crystalline substance capable of absorbing water. It is made from chloral, an oily, colorless liquid formed by the combination of chlorine gas with absolute alcohol. It dissolves easily in water, alcohol, and oils. It combines with strong alkalides to form chloroform, but isotonc solutions of sodium carbonate do not affect it.

    Chloral Hydrate is usually given about 15 minutes before bedtime well diluted in a syrup of a mucilaginous(thick sticky) substance to disguise its taste and lessen irritation(‘in the mouth it has a hot, burning taste, and a strong aromatic odor’; ‘in the stomach or intestines it occasionally causes nausea and vomiting’)

    It is often given by rectum, dissolved in boiled starch and slowly injected into the rectum through a catheter with a syringe.

    When giving chloral hydrate, the nurse should take the pulse before administration and again every few minutes thereafter because some patients who have an idiosyncrasy(any personal peculiarity, mannerism, etc.) to the drug may develop sudden heart failure which is evidenced by a slow and weak pulse and may be fatal. There is no way to determine this in advance. If a change occurs, the nurse should report it so that treatment may be instituted early. If the pulse becomes slow, the patient should be kept quiet and flat on his/her back and be assured that the symptoms are not serious.
    Treatment is the same for poisoning.

    Chloral Hydrate often causes the following unusual effects:
    1. Flushed face and neck.
    2. Eruptions: large, red areas on the skin, which are often distinctly raised above the surface as a wheal which is a small, itching elevation of the skin as in an insect bite. The erptions often peel.
    3. Nausea and vomiting.
    4. Headache and excitment.
    5. Sudden heart weakness with very slow pulse.
    The drug should be stopped when these symptoms appear.
    The danger is usually over when the pulse is above 60 and is regular and strong.

    Acute chloral hydrate poisoning is a condition which may result when an overdose of the drug is given medicinally.
    In giving chloral hydrate, the patient must be carefully watched, and the pulse should be taken very frequently, as sudden heart failure from the drug is not at all uncommon, even from a single dose.
    1. Very slow and shallow breathing and cyanosis(a dusky bluish or purplish discoloration of skin or mucous membranes
    due to deficient oxygenation locally)
    2. Slow, weak, irregular pulse, with low blood pressure.
    3. Subnormal temperature.
    4. Stupor(a state in which the mind and senses are dulled), followed by coma.
    5. Collapse.
    Death usually results from paralysis of the heart and breathing.
    1. The stomach should be washed out.
    2. Give artificial respiration and oxygen.
    3. Keep patient warm and quiet. Excitement may be fatal.
    4. Strychnine, caffeine, strong coffee, atropine, or alcohol are usually given to increase the action of the heart and respiration.
    5. Intravenous infusions of glucose or normal salt solution ar ordered.
    Chloral Hydrate is used principally as follows:
    1. To produce sleep.
    2. To lessen the excitement of delirium tremens and other similar conditions.
    3. To prevent the convulsions of strychine poisoning, epilepsy, eclampsia(an attack of convulsions) and other convulsive states.
    4. To lower blood pressure.
    Habitual use of chloral hydrate often causes symptoms resembling those of chronic alcoholism. It causes degeneration of some of the organs in the body, such as liver and kidney. The following symptoms may result from this condition:
    1. The patient or prisoner feels melancholic and “blue.”
    2. Wakefulness and nervousness at night.
    3. Gastric symptoms and constipation.
    4. Eruptions on the body.
    5. Muscular weakness.
    If the drug is suddenly stopped, symptoms resembling delirium tremens result. To relieve the symptoms, the patient must be gradually weaned of the habit.

    Administration of this drug in the S.O should be OUTLAWED!!
    Is there ever a licensed physician attending when this drug is administered…..EVER?

  58. SKM—-Thanks for your data. The same guy who wrote and sang “Peace Train” advocating violence never made sense. I hope the other comments on this blog saying he was innocent are true.

  59. Alexis de Tocqueville

    Apropos only to the Drive By Truckers video way up top, thought I’d leave this sweet chestnut from Justin Townes Earle (with Matt Stafford of DBT on guitar).

    Sorry to have messed up the embed in the earlier comment.

  60. The man is trying to get back on his feet.

  61. top of the vale

    To continue:
    Chloral Hydrate is very rapidly absorbed into the blood through the mucous membranes of the stomach and intestines; usually in about 5 to 15 minutes. After absorption, if affects principally the brain, the heart, and respiration.
    Chloral hydrate lessens the activity of the brain, producing sleep, but does not relieve pain.
    The reflex actions of the spinal cord are lessened by chloral hydrate. External stimuli applied to various parts of the body therefore produce a slow response.
    Chloral Hydrate makes the heart beat slower and weaker by weakening the contractions of the heart muscle. The pulse then becomes slower and weaker. It also lowers blood pressure.
    The breathing becomes somewhat slower and shallower, because fewer impulses for breathing are sent out from the respiratory center in the medulla.
    Chloral hydrate lowers the temperature several degrees by lessening muscular contractions, so that less heat is produced.
    Chloral Hydrate is eliminated from the body mainly in the urine in several hours.
    Chloral Hydrate is given principally TO INSANE PATIENTS. It is classed in the drugs known as a hypnotics.

    From Wikipedia – A solution of chloral hydrate in alcohol called “knockout drops” was used to prepare a Mickey Finn.

    Does this strike any bells with anyone?

    Is this the handling for staff who object to harsh ethics? Or public like Lisa McPherson who want to leave the ‘fold’?

    I have to admire such strong souls like Scott Campbell and others who have been given chloral hydrate and survived to tell all and warn those who don’t realize what they may be getting into for the glory of clearing the planet. One should know all before you go. It certainly has given me food for thought, even as a public who could end up like Lisa given half the chance. With their history, I wouldn’t put it past them.

    One other fact one should know – Chloral hydrate is illegal in the United States without a prescription. Chloral hydrate is a schedule IV controlled substance in the United States. Its properties have sometimes led to its use as a date rape drug.

    What an idea that Scott Campbell and Lisa were given a ‘date rape drug!’ administered by staff? Without a prescription? Administered freely? IMAGINATIONS GO WILD!!

  62. Yes. Buying that ticket was an overt. I am sorry. Won’t happen again.

  63. Li'll bit of stuff

    Mr Fancy, your “hard time reconciling” is duly noted and
    understood! When first introduced to Scn many years
    ago, I, too had many suspicions and questions,courtesy
    of rumour and negative bias and propaganda, fed to me
    by, as it turned out, someone with “lots to hide”

    As a matter of record, the reg, (registrar) listened quite
    patiently, to me, sounding off my reservations, for a full
    TWO HOURS,without interrupting, invalidating, or even
    attempting to sell me anything. Just great presence.
    wonderful acknowledgements and continued warmth
    and friendliness HUH ????? What WAS THIS ??

    What ever HE had (displayed to me) I just knew that
    I wanted some of THIS too!

    This happened to be the old original H.A.S. Course
    (Hubbard Apprentice Scientologist) or Comm Course

    The Interview experience,was my first EVER contact
    with a Scientology Org and I must say blew me away
    and the next thing I knew , I signed up and was then
    immediately started on the COMM Course.

    The results of completing that one Single Course
    set me on the path to self knowledge and Discovery
    and insight into life and others and the understanding
    required to do this. And Mr.Fancy, it all boils down to
    THOROUGHLY using and understanding the EXACT
    FORMULA of communication THIS tool gets U there
    and can resolve ‘ your hard time ‘ rather easily

    Hope this is real for you ? regards Li’ll bit

  64. Li'll bit of stuff

    SKM, thanks you’re a ” great connector ” TOO!

  65. Mr Fancy

    OK. Let’s see what I can do with this.

    First of all, thank you for your response. It seems obvious that you have have researched your concerns. I want you to know that I do not wish to “show you where you are wrong”. What I would like to do is simply offer you another opinion (s). Whether you incorporate these opinions into your understandings or not, hopefully depends on whether you find them true for YOU or not.

    I personally find that L. Ron Hubbard was given to some rather brash statements at times. He seems to have moved about on the tone scale quite a bit, non? Personally I tend to look at the acute tone outbursts for what they are.

    I also disagree with a variety of L.Ron Hubbard’s opinions and policies, but I have found that when I look at the overall picture, I think he really has something valuable to contribute to the resolution of some of the ills of human beings and their societies, and to personal spiritual advancement.

    So, to your quotes…

    My question is… Suppose this had nothing to do with Scientology at all, do you consider the statements about the effects, on a society, of “people from 2.0 down on the tone scale” , to be erroneous?
    Seems to me that a society, with all of its members chronically above 2.0 on the tone scale, would be a much more enjoyable and safer society?

    Is the problem with the phrases “dispose of them .”,… and …”abrupt deletion”. Well, harsh words for sure, but I have studied a fair bit of Scientology and Dianetics, and I know of no technology developed by L. Ron Hubbard that was intended to carry out “option number two” given in this quote.

    And since one does not seem to be able to “audit” someone against their will, or even “bring them uptone” without their willingness, it seems “option one” must be employing some technology that does not require any form of “force”.

    But he says.. “neither one of which (the two options) has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts.”… OK, how about that? As an example… Suppose a person came to you wanting to become more uptone and sane, and during your auditing you discovered that this person was molesting young children, and they quite frankly told you that they “were not interested in handling that” because it was “the only pleasure they had in life”….would you say something like “well, that is OK then.. lets just move on to something else, OK?”. I do not think so.

    So… Do you see where I am going with this? I invite you to have another look at the quotes that you have given and see if you have changed your opinion at all. If not.. fair enough, but this is the light in which I see these quotes.

    I am going to leave this, at this point, as it is getting rather long. If you wish to continue this conversation, feel free to contact me.

    Eric S

  66. Riding that big ole service facsimile I knew too well…

  67. Raul, a perfect analogy.

  68. Tom Cruise is an actor, acting in a movie. What he spends his personal money on is really no one’s business. From the movie reviews I’ve read, Mission Impossible is a good action/adventure movie, especially when there is not a 007 movie being released this year. I don’t believe that it is supposed to be a political statement of some sort. The fact that Tom Cruise is one of many actors in the movie doesn’t mean that it is a fundraiser for the Church of Scientology. Now, if Tom brings up Scientology, when he is supposed to be promoting the movie, that would open him up to criticism. I believe that he knows that if his, and his wife’s, career is going to continue, he needs to focus on doing his job and not being such a tool for David Miscavige.

  69. We’re just not worthy. If only I could lick the dirt off his tires. I am nothing. He is everything.

  70. That’s exactly right Ingrid! It’s the points of agreement on important issues that matter. Those are what realities are built from.

  71. Ingrid, your point very well made.

  72. I’ll add my 2 cents in here too, Mr. Fancy. We’ve recently had had some discussion about this on Geir’s blog. The inestimable Alanzo likes to hammer the quotes from the book SoS. They are every critic’s favorite.

    I have a couple of points about SoS. The main one is that it was published in 1951, long before LRH developed 98% of the auditing tech available today, or even in 1980, was available. Before he developed the Ethics tech that solves PTS conditions, and even solves the SP case, like the PTS Rundown and the Suppressed Person Rundown.

    It is notable that this tech has never been applied much in the CoS, especially under DM. Understandably.

    My other point is that “disposing quietly and without sorrow” is the “tech” that societies have used from time immemorial to deal with persons they find troublesome in some way, or when they find it useful or expedient to do so.

    It is practiced today by every government and society I can think of, especially by the most “civilized” ones. These do not kill as many outright as some less “developed” countries have in recent years(Cambodia, China, Rwanda etc.), but jail millions. The USA is one of the leaders in that regard, where prisons are a “growth industry” and millions of people are in jail at any given time.

    So my basic view is that LRH was at worst, advocating a saner and more fine-tuned use of the techniques already firmly entrenched in the society.

    I believe later technical developments in auditing and education, if they were broadly applied, would greatly reduce the need to incarcerate anyone the way it is done today.

    I guess that last point that I feel is not stressed nearly enough, is that “SP” is properly a clinical term that should not ever be used to label someone out of prejudice, for political reasons, as a manipulative tactic, because you dislike them, or because they disagree with you in some way.

  73. Thanks for the data totv. The drug was prescribed to me (along with Diazepam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam on the ship by Julie Powiesnik, the ship’s doctor – who we recently found out from Valeska Guider even faked being an M.D.! The prescription for Chloral Hydrate was continued by Dr. Megan Shields for the next 10 months after I was transferred from the ship to land.

  74. Thanks Bela! Great reference – I already used it on another blog where DM’s “zealotry” was mentioned.

  75. I don’t doubt that RTC has a tame MD available who would back-date a prescription if needed.

  76. This song is posted for Scott and all the others, whoever they may be.

    Steppenwolf – Steppenwolf (1968)
    The Pusher (Hoyt Axton) – 5:49

    You know I’ve smoked a lot of grass
    O’ Lord, I’ve popped a lot of pills
    But I never touched nothin’
    That my spirit could kill
    You know, I’ve seen a lot of people walkin’ ’round
    With tombstones in their eyes
    But the pusher don’t care
    Ah, if you live or if you die

    God damn, The Pusher
    God damn, I say The Pusher
    I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man

    You know the dealer, the dealer is a man
    With the love grass in his hand
    Oh but the pusher is a monster
    Good God, he’s not a natural man
    The dealer for a nickel
    Lord, will sell you lots of sweet dreams
    Ah, but the pusher ruin your body
    Lord, he’ll leave your, he’ll leave your mind to scream

    God damn, The Pusher
    God damn, God damn the Pusher
    I said God damn, God, God damn The Pusher man

    Well, now if I were the president of this land
    You know, I’d declare total war on The Pusher man
    I’d cut him if he stands, and I’d shoot him if he’d run
    Yes I’d kill him with my Bible and my razor and my gun

    God damn The Pusher
    Gad damn The Pusher
    I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man.

  77. What the hell are you going on about Chloral Hydrate for? This has nothing whatsoever to do with the article or even any other comment on this article.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  78. Diazepam is commonly known as Valium. There are over 70 various drugs in that family of “minor tranquilizers” generically called “benzodiazepines”, including Rohypnol which achieved some notoriety as a date-rape drug. Actually many of them can be used in such a way.

    They are prescribed as muscle relaxants, to help induce sleep, and as anti-anxiety agents and are commonly prescribed in conjunction with SSRI antidepressants because those often cause restlessness.

    Their common denominator is they make it hard to remember.
    Pharmacologists who design drugs call benzodiazepines “alcohol in a pill”. In a similar way to alcohol, they can produce a “blackout” in which a person is unable to remember what s/he did while under the influence.

    Chances are you know many people who have a prescription for one of these drugs. Here is a list:

  79. top of the vale

    At least Scott Campbell knows how to ack! Are you being the ‘self elected’ editor or something?

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