Miscavige and Misogyny

Definition of MISOGYNY

: a hatred of women

— miso·gy·nic adjective

— mi·sog·y·nist noun or adjective

— mi·sog·y·nis·tic adjective

Origin of MISOGYNY

Greek misogynia, from misein to hate + gynē woman — more at queen

First Known Use: circa 1656     – Merriam-Websters.com

Many here have expressed dismay while attempting to divine David Miscavige’s “logic” in launching perhaps the largest footnuke in Scientology history by suing Debbie Cook.

Mike Rinder and I went through the same process the moment we first finished reading the lawsuit and motion for Temporary Injunction.

However, Rinder in his inimitable, deliberative style soon summed up what I believe to be a perfectly accurate estimation of Miscavige’s thought processes in one succinct sentence.

Mike read the following from Debbie’s 15 January email to the “church”:

“I put out a simple message to not support anything not covered in tech or policy by L Ron Hubbard and to go up the Bridge.  How is that so horrible and despicable?  Oh, I forgot, I dared to challenge DM.  My OL (Opinion Leader) is L Ron Hubbard.”

Mike turned to me and said, “I know exactly what happened;  Miscavige read this and said, ‘I AM GOING TO TEACH THAT BITCH A LESSON’.”

Mike was spot on because Mike understands that at bottom David Miscavige is the worst sort of misogynist.

When I joined the Sea Org in January 1978 one thing that impressed me about Ron Hubbard’s international organization was that it was way, way ahead of the times in terms of gender equality.   Some of the most powerful figures in Scientology – all appointed by L Ron Hubbard himself – were women.   Mary Sue Hubbard and Jane Kember on the Guardian’s Office side, and Dede Reisdorf Voegeding and Gale Reisdorf Irwin on the Sea Org side.

Well, the first order of business in Miscavige’s rise to power was the calculated, systematic destruction of all four of those women.

But, that was not the end of it.

Upon formation of Religious Technology Center, which was intended to carry out an international Qual function so as to guarantee the practice of Standard Technology in churches of Scientology, L Ron Hubbard appointed two more women to its highest positions, Inspector General – Annie Tidman Broeker; and D/Inspector General  – Vicki Aznaran.

Both very competent women were ruthlessly taken down by Miscavige.

By the late eighties there were but four remaining high-profile, internationally recognized women executives heading major Scientology entities, Terri Gamboa at Author Services Inc (ASI, before it became a glorified sales con outfit), Janet Light at International Association of Scientologists (IAS), Bitty Blythe Miscavige as Commanding Officer CMO Int,  and Debbie Cook at Flag Service Organization.

When Miscavige’s ordered criminal reg tactics of ASI were creating big external threats for the church, he blamed it all on Terri and blew her off.

Bitty rose to the position of Inspector General – chiefly on the merits of her years’ long projects to help upgrade Flag into a two million dollars a week income cash cow.  Janet was left to get on with it as she turned IAS into an even more profitable outfit, albeit out-exchange and criminal, than Flag.

Bitty had her ups and downs and ups, but in the year 2000 she too was blown off by Miscavige’s misogynist behavior after having the temerity to challenge him.

Then in early 2007 Janet was imprisoned in the hole and broken after expressing disagreements with Miscavige’s  increasing greed and criminality.  Shortly after Miscavige sent his own wife, COB Assistant Shelly, to a gulag because she too began to question Miscavige’s sanity.

That left Debbie as the last powerful woman in Scientology standing.  If you’ve been following since her New Years message this year, you know the misogynist behavior Miscavige visited upon her.

And when Debbie drew a line in the sand and told the dictator “make my day” he could not resist his own evil, misogynist impulses.

My guess is that if there were a support network like the Independent Movement in place back in the day none of these powerful women (all friends and trusted confidants of L Ron Hubbard) would have given up and left Scientology behind.

In my mind Debbie stands for all the great women of Scientology.

When Debbie told the SP “no!”, she represented every former great woman in Scientology that Miscavige blew off or destroyed.

When she prevails it will rehabilitate the power of female legends in the history of the Scientology movement.

It will restore complete gender equality in Scientology for the future.

It will quite possibly mark the end of Miscavige’s reign of terror; for the simple reason that I imagine he cannot live with the fact of being bested by a woman.

Note: While the above is only a brief overview, the details of the misogynist, sexist nature of Scientology Inc’s supreme leader and its effect in destroying Scientology Inc will be fully exposed in my upcoming book.


355 responses to “Miscavige and Misogyny

  1. “Note: While the above is only a brief overview, the details of the misogynist, sexist nature of Scientology Inc’s supreme leader and its effect in destroying Scientology Inc will be fully exposed in my upcoming book.”

    I want a signed copy!
    Or two!
    Hopefully it will include photos. And hopefully one of those photos will be of a mini-tyrant in an orange jump suit and handcuffs. Or of Tom Cruise crying his eyes out on camera, apologizing to all those who stood strong against the little monster. Or, or, or…

  2. Yehh, he pulled it in!


  3. Susan Dietz

    In a perfect world Debbie Cook would sue David Miscavige and the case would be heard by Judge Judy.

  4. Marty: “In my mind Debbie stands for all the great women of Scientology.

    When Debbie told the SP “no!”, she represented every former great woman in Scientology that Miscavige blew off or destroyed.

    When she prevails it will rehabilitate the power of female legends in the history of the Scientology movement.

    It will restore complete gender equality in Scientology for the future.”

    Postulates, postulates, postulates!!
    You put it well, Marty!
    BTW, thank you Mosey for taking care for this great man – you’re strong and beautiful.

  5. Marty — spot on. Of course, there are necessarily a LOT of details left out which will make good reading in your book.

    Just one additional note. It is well known what a foul-mouthed person MIscavige is. It’s almost like he derives some sort of sexual tittilation out of talking dirty — and in that regard, I have never heard as many different, vulgar and misogynistic terms for female genitalia and anatomy as spewed forth out of Miscavige’s foul mouth. Rarely have I heard him refer to a female in less demeaning terms than his normal “slit” or “c**t” — those are virtually terms of endearment to him.

    Mr. perfectly coiffed, hand-tailored suit, orange skinned, photo-op is really a slimy, disgusting, degraded piece of garbage under his thinly painted on veneer.

    It sucks to be Miscavige.

  6. I agree David Miscavige hates women but he treats men just as bad. The difference is he has his bestest friend Tom Cruise but no female equivalent.

  7. Felicitas Foster

    That makes sence! 🙂
    Brilliant analysis. Thank you Mike and Marty.

  8. Completely accurate from my view.

    Once Miscavige had all WDC members line up and asked, “You know what’s wrong with WDC? You’re a bunch of woman.” I laughed, because that was ridiculous and he demanded, “I’m totally serious!!!”

    Another time, he had all the female WDC members stand in a line and then turn around so he could look at our asses. He started laughing and asked us if he knew what he was doing. Debbie Hughes said, “checkout out our swivel-chair spread?” He said, “No but maybe one day you’ll figure it out.” WTF?

    Miscavige has serious issues – I think his chronic tone is HATE. It’s all about power and ego. I hope he gets to join a men-only commune some day. See how much those men like his ego.

  9. martyrathbun09

    Right on the money Amy. Just these two instances alone would land a corporate CEO in the unemployment line. And that is only the tip of a very massive iceberg.

  10. Not to stray too far off topic here, but it seems to me he hates children with equal abandon. He is the one that banned having children in the SO, cancelled famliy time, nuked an LRH Comm Int (woman) that dared to question his family time ban as she saw the LRH reference concerning it, and who enforces abortions. He has given a new evil meaning to the phrase “Women and children first.”

  11. Kevin Tighe

    Debbie was right when she told me with a twinkle in her eyes,”Women Rule!”. Prescient, don’t’ ya think?


  12. Kevin Tighe

    “It sucks to be Miscavige.”

    I have a vision of a new line of tee shirts for the Clearwater market…

  13. An astutely timed post considering the recent Rush Limbaugh flap – he and COB make perfect bedfellows. Where do you stand on this, Tom Cruise? Inquiring minds want to know.

  14. Stealth Ninja

    I’m going to take the rare (and doubtless, unpopular) step of defending Mr. Miscavige on the charge of misogyny. I don’t believe that he harbors any specific hatred towards women in particular; indeed, he seems to have a pretty well-documented hatred towards people in general. I think it would be far more accurate to call him a “misanthrope.”

  15. I saw this in a different forum today. It is apt to the Miscavige comeuppance from Debbie Cook: “Whatever you give a woman, she’s going to multiply. If you give her sperm, she’ll give you a baby. If you give her a house, she’ll give you a home. If you give her groceries, she’ll give you a meal. If you give her a smile, she’ll give you her heart. She multiplies and enlarges what is given to her. So – if you give her any crap, you will receive a ton of shit.”

  16. Marty, you are relentless. Debbie Cook knocks Miscavige down, Ronnie Bell stands up and shouts a litany of clear reasons DM must go, and then you don’t even let the creature stand on all fours before you walk over and put your boot on his neck..


    Now that you mention it, I noticed that about gender-equality in Sea Org postings way back then too; but I think I mostly took it for granted, because I never once encountered gender bias anwhere in Scientology, which in hindsight is quite remarkable. Thank you for pointing it out — by doing so, you have landed another powerful blow against an evil despot.

  17. Take a good hard look at Miscavige’s blog (otherwise known as the OSA blog) and the Freedumb magazine issues. Study up on the sexual slurs and innuendo, degrading photographs and caricatures and dehumanization of every woman depicted. Then decide.

  18. Since we are in the subject of defining who the enemy is here is another one:

    Misandry (play /mɪˈsændri/) is the hatred or dislike of men or boys. A recently coined word,[1] misandry was formed from Greek misos (μῖσος, “hatred”) and anēr, andros (ἀνήρ, gen. ἀνδρός; “man”). Misandry is the antonym of philandry, the fondness towards men, love, or admiration of them. Misogyny is the term about women that is parallel to misandry, about men.

    The full context is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

    Miscavige did not put a bullet to his foot by suing Debbie Cook. He practically cut off his legs. Big mistake DUDE.

  19. LOL Susan!

  20. I have another possible book title:
    “Reform Code – The missing link in the Church of Scientology”

  21. Tom Gallagher

    POB is repellent, reprehensible, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, and rotten. This odious sociopath, truly an historic Angel of Death, is beneath contempt.

    Thanks Marty for this update. This psychotic’s nauseating behavior needs to be shown in spotlights.

    The purge continues.

  22. HereNow–this thought has occurred to me before. He fits on the Chart of Human Evaluation across the line that talks about harming children–harming women (those who could possibly bear children), squashing any joy of courtship (no touchy!-no looky!) etc., even to the point of saying my son, who’d proven his willingness to help by joining the Sea Org, was suddenly banned from ever having children.

  23. martyrathbun09

    You are smart Lynne.

  24. Tom Gallagher

    He’s making Ted Bundy look like a choir boy.

  25. StealthNinja–yes, a misanthrope, but there are so many aspects of this that it’s well to look at one at a time, and the misogynist aspect is particularly appropriate to what’s going on right now.

  26. Miscavige also wiped out all remembrances of Yvonne Jentzsch at CCI.

  27. A very large percentage of the culture of OTs the last time I was at Flag consisted of men having affairs and then leaving their wives and children having done some half-assed ‘ethics conditions’ all while merrily continuing to continue to remain under the protection of Flag’s ‘we don’t interfere with the second dynamic’ policy. This kind of behavior was actually encouraged in the field with instances of women being instructed to satisfy their men correctly so they wouldn’t stray, advice on how to give proper blow jobs and suggestions that women do reach and withdraw on their husband’s penis to raise their confront. A woman suffering public humiliation and degradation by her husband’s behavior was generally met with the accusation that she had done something to pull it in. One OT VII reporting on her husband having affairs with two other OT VIIs at the same time was handled on HER out ethics and all three OT VIIs were given a slap on the wrist and allowed to continue with their solo auditing. Like this I could continue to give more and more examples. You’ll excuse me if I don’t mention any names at this point (but I will only protect the guilty up to a point).
    The staff at Flag (particularly the Chaplain and MAA terminals) have now so perfectly established themselves in DM’s valence that it’s clear to see the result of his case dramatized on the 3rd Dynamic in Clearwater.
    Make no doubt about it. In the eyes of the leader of the cult who’s example the mini me OT men so dotingly follow, women are chattel and objects to be enjoyed and then discarded when no-longer of any use. If they don’t go away quietly then they are to be disposed of quickly and efficiently. Unfortunately for Miscavige some women refuse to die without a fight.
    Miscavige – SUCKS to be beaten by chattel don’t it? Makes you feel impotent doesn’t it? That’s because you are! Any man who is secretly afraid of women is as dickless as your statue – who’s willy I recently learned was actually originally removed on your orders…. :0.
    Does this communication seem personal? Well it is. Hell hath no fury Davey and rest assured there’s a line of women right behind Debbie baseball bat in hand.
    Bring it on girls!!!

  28. I want to frame this and put it on the wall so I can get a good laugh whenever I need one. What a hilarious thought!

  29. Judge Judy, good one.
    Wouldn’t DM have to sue DC to be on Judge Judy? It is a SMALL claims court…

  30. I wonder if his hostility toward women stems in part from his repression of his own homosexuality, and in part from his damaged, narcissistic personality — he wants to “look” better than anyone else.

    To be clear it is absolutely NOT the case that if one is openly gay and clear on his sexual identity, that he is a misogynist. Quite the contrary; openly gay men tend (in my life experience) to be sensitive to and very supportive and validating of women. But someone like DM who may have deep, repressed sexual identity issues may be hostile to the things that irritate him.

    See the book “Malignant Self Love” for a discussion of how narcissistic males tend to be misogynist.


    In psychology (we should thank the “wog” world for not standing still in its own investigations of the human mind and human behavior) it is an established observation that homophobia and misogyny tend to be part of a cluster pattern.

    From this one could infer that DM’s extreme misogyny _might_ be a correlate of a deep homophobia, and that homophobia would typically stem from fear of one’s own sexuality and possibly one’s own latent homosexuality.

    This is a hypothesis, but it seems that there might be a pattern here that actually spans the language and insights of both Scientology and psychology. DM may in fact be suppressive (he should be comm ev’ed to be fair). He may in fact be a criminal and felon — the courts should give him due process. He has a clear pattern than can be seen as misogyny. That needs to stop. He seems to be (as Mike Rinder put it in an interview) “unnaturally close” to Tom Cruise. That also might fit latent homosexuality. He’s somehow disposed of his own wife (not murdered, but RPFd or RPFs RPFd or something), and that too could fit with both misogyny and latent homosexuality. He is quite evidently narcissistic (a little of that, we all need, but he seems to be heavily if not totally narcissistic) and that tends to cluster with misogyny. And so on.

    Maybe this line of thinking may help broaden the impact and audience of the forthcoming book by examining DM from multiple philosophies from Greek mythology (legend of Narcissus), to sociology and psychology, and of course from the Scientology framework.

    One of the thoughts I’d like to put out there is that one of the wisest things that Independent Scientology could do (IMHO) is to get off the A=A=A of all psychology and psychiatry is Evil, and that there is no wisdom elsewhere in the world. I think the Scientology world and the “wog” world can actually complement and energize one another.

    To Scientology I would say: Be open to research and evidence. Distinguish legend and belief from fact. Don’t fear criticism and critical thinking. Lose the disparaging language of “wog, raw meat,” etc. Lose the attitude that Scientology knows everything and the “wog” world knows nothing. As Ron made clear, the _first_ barrier to learning is believing that you already know it all. Cancel idiotic and self-destructive policies like disconnection and the current usage of declares (once a dreaded thing, a declare now is almost a symbol of pride for standing up to BS). Where LRH was wrong, don’t worry about it. Toss the bathwater and keep the baby. Completely lose the cult mentality that exists in corporate Scientology. Pay people for their work — in Scientology principles, what corporate Scientology is experiencing may be due to crimes like decades of out exchange with the public and its staff coupled with chickens coming home to roost from what appear to be the crimes of a suppressive person at the top of the food chain.

    To the non-Scientology world I would say: Help with designing fair research. Accept people’s beliefs. Accept the kinds of wins and successes that people are experiencing and feel free to investigate them from any angle you want. Recognize that there just may actually be a spiritual / theta world not located in the physical. Many have experienced (throughout human history and across cultures and religions) stepping into the world and getting a glimpse of it. Scientology is humankind’s most methodical effort to try to crack into that world. That is a worthy goal.

    Those sorts of changes would take a major gestalt switch on the sides of both “worlds” — but it might create an awesome success and advance for everyone. Where Scientology does work, it will withstand scrutiny. Where it is off track (like with radiation), take it as a good effort and set it aside.

    I hope these thoughts are useful to someone.

  31. Good points Amy.
    It’s interesting that his personal office staff consists of mostly women as well as attack dogs like Jenny Linson and Lisa Schoerer to crush men and women alike.

  32. Come on, out with it. What do you really think of him?

  33. martyrathbun09

    That is a studied method of ruining people. It is GANG technology. The way you create a criminal is to encourage her to commit a criminal act, validate her for it, and encourage more. Before you know it, they are doing it on automatic pilot.

  34. I agree with the depiction of Miscavage. However, you forgot to mention how LRH threw his own wife under the bus when Operation Snow White was exposed.

  35. Tom Gallagher

    And how about Annie?

  36. Not only is Debbie standing up for all women in scientology but all women of the world. Not only all women, but men as well…. for the simple right to stand up and be real.
    I remember when you first posted her story over a year ago. I wrote her saying I’d love to hear her tell her own story. Her reply: me too.
    Now she is, of course. And I couldn’t help notice the difference between her court testimony, responding to the suit from COB, which was heart felt and real and her interview for nightline, also heart felt and real, AND with a gleam in her eye and a smile as if to say ‘game on’.

  37. davemessenger

    I have to disagree Marty. I don’t think that DM destroying 10 women’s lives is proof of misogyny. It is much more likely that DM simply hates anyone taller than he is.

  38. That is so spot on, Marty!

  39. As well as Mary Sue Hubbard.

  40. In an article from the Saint Petersburg Times called “The Man Behind Scientology” (more like “The Man Beneath Scientology”) he shows himself to be so very proud of having taken down Mary Sue Hubbard:

    “During two heated encounters, Miscavige persuaded Mary Sue Hubbard to resign. Together they composed a letter to Scientologists confirming her decision — all without ever talking to L. Ron Hubbard.

    He saw the one-on-one meeting as the only way. “I knew if it was going to be a physical takeover we’re going to lose because they had a couple thousand staff and we (the “messengers”) had about 50. That is the amazing part about it.” http://www.sptimes.com/TampaBay/102598/scientologypart3.html

    When I did the Student Hat Course I heard LRH continually speaking about the good work and assitence of Mary Sue Hubbard in the areas of the Technology and administration of Scientology. I heard that all of these references about his wife in these tapes and others (which to me seem like countless) have been removed from his lectures. I do not know for a fact if this is the case but I would NOT BE IN THE LEAST SURPRISED if in fact this he did this

    What a prick.

  41. Joy Graysen

    WOW Marty, very interesting perspective… I can’t help but observe similarities between Miscavige’s suppressive, domination based regime and that of the far right religious extremism being displayed right now in the US Republican Primary process.
    With all the national conversation swirling around
    -unmocking women’s right to choose regarding abortion –
    – arguments by Rick Santorum claiming birth control is ‘against God and the Bible’,
    -Rush Limbaugh attacking Georgetown law student Sandra Fluke for daring to testify before a congressional committee for her beliefs about access to birth control and women’s reproductive healthcare needs – calling her a “slut” and a “prostitute”,
    – Feb 16, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee holding a hearing on religious liberty and the birth control rule that did not contain one woman on their panel nor would they allow Sandra Fluke to testify, etc, etc, etc, –
    And in the world’s most suppressive regimes:
    – in Afganistan, since the Taliban takeover, an edict was issued that stripped women and girls of their rights and is considered that they are being “held hostage under a brutal system of gender apartheid”
    – the Taliban forcing women to cover their entire bodies, including their faces with “burqas”anytime they appear in public or risk being beaten for showing a bit of ankle or even squeaky shoes
    – they can not speak in public or to men who are not relatives
    – women accused of prostitution or infidelity are hung in public squares or stoned to death
    – the Salem Witch Trials of 1692, forged by Reverend Samuel Parris…

    Obviously, I could go on endlessly, showing specifically how suppressive, religious based regimes have tried to crush women… But I think you get the idea…

    My point is that the common denominators are leaders who attempt to dominate their domain by creating an “us vs them” mentality. They create an enemy to fight against. They usually select an enemy that would easily expose their charade if given any credibility. The more powerful the threat- the more lies, danger, and and potential harm is assigned to them by the dictator.
    An example of this is how religious zealots only allow their “scripture” as valid reading and informational sources. And then- only the portions of their scripture that the ruler quotes.
    Like in Miscavige’s tyranny, the parishioners are ONLY allowed to read the LRH that he deems acceptable. Not only are they not allowed to read the newspaper or go on the Internet to get any valid information, they are only allowed to apply the LRH that DM approves as the “correct” point of view. What is the saying… “religion is the opiate of the masses”…
    Similarly, Rick Santorum, last week, accused President Obama of being a “snob” because he wants every American child to have the opportunity to get a higher education by going to college. Santorum said that college makes people less religious. His quote was, “62% of kids who enter college with some sort of faith commitment leave without it.”
    Obviously, multiple studies have found that the opposite is true… Duh…
    My point is, anything powerful- like knowledge, like intelligence, like people who have a strong ability to think for themselves- are major threats to people who want to lord over many for nefarious reasons. Keep them stupid and weak and control what they consume so you can control how they behave…
    All of this to say WOMEN ARE EXTREMELY POWERFUL and therefore EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to Suppressives. Why else would we have been SO suppressed? No one would have wasted all this energy if they didn’t really fear the power of the beauty of women to their very core. And when I say beauty I am referring to a woman’s heart, a woman’s compassion, a woman’s ability to create, and reason and multi-task and ultimately bring life to the human race- literally and figuratively.
    In the 2D book LRH says “women are the beauty of mankind”.
    That scares the SHIT out of cockroaches like David Miscavige!

  42. LOL. Someone deserves credit for that quote! Good wisdom.

  43. Marty and Mike this absolutely spot on. DM absolutely hates everyone especially women (lower classed citizens) and he is one of the most fouled mouthed people I have ever known. Not only did he absolutely feel threatened by the mentioned women he also literally hated/detested all the IG wives to his core. Any CEO would be out on his ear or in jail for his treatment of the women in the SO; not to mention all his other cruel evil awful things he has done to so very many well intentioned awesome staff members through the years. His day is coming!

  44. In 1981 I personally observed David Miscavige suppress, crush and eventually cement Dianna Hubbard into a lifetime of silence and monastic obedience that continues to this day. It could be that Dianna Hubbard was the first high ranking female casualty of David Miscavige’s misogyny. Can anyone else confirm this???

    Prior to 1981, Dianna was a very vocal and public female spokesman for Scientology and an unabashed friend of all the mission holders. However, in about 1981 she had the temerity to oppose DM’s smashing and financial ruination of the mission network. At the time, to the best of my recollection, she said, specifically, that “DM had gone “Mad Dog” and was destroying the missions network.” And, she felt she could save the missions holders from their plight by discovering and exposing DM’s crimes and high crimes (she felt they must be there for him to do something like this) and getting him removed from the Sea Org. She then began a quest to find and expose DM’s crimes and also to contact LRH about this, who had mysteriously disappeared off the lines completely.

    (As I learned many years later on Marty’s Blog , in 1981 Dianna could never find LRH because DM had the ONLY comm line to LRH so DM was free to spew any 3rd party poison about Dianna with impunity. Such 3rd party, is my speculation.)

    Anyway, a few months later, Dianna returned from her quest to find and expose DM’s crimes and save he missions. She was very pale and visibly shaken and said that she was “mistaken” about DM and was going back to work in Div VI.

    From then on, I never spoke to Dianna Hubbard again and I never heard her speak in public again. So, Dianna Hubbard may have been the first high ranking female casualty of David Misogyny Miscavige.

  45. And I have to follow and defend Rush who cetainly does not hate women. His recent remark to one women was driven by what he freqently does and that is use absudity to drive home a point. I don’t hear him going after women relentlessly.

    Miscavageon the other hand may just hate anyone that is upright and moving about as that living entity may suddenly just draw a knife on him…….he thinks

  46. David Miscavige and Rush Limbaugh would be good buddies.

    I’ve run into men like David Miscavige. Never a pleasant experience. But I want to stress that being gay doesn’t equal harboring hatred of women. Even if David was gay, this would not explain his hatred of women, any more than his being short would be an explanation. I wish I could laugh in his face just to watch him writhe with fustration.

    Debbie, you go girl!

  47. Oh my god! We’re arguing whether David Miscavige is a misogynist or a misanthrope! This blog is getting a little too scholarly for my tastes.

    Add to the list of remarkably talented women that Miscavige has destroyed: Jeanie Soninfeld (formerly Jeanie Franks and Jeanie Bogvad). She is still in the church, still leading the Cincinnati Org, but has never lost her terror of Miscavige after a several month stint in solitary in the early 1990s, and her personal integrity is out the bottom.Jeanie is a Class VIII who trained, audited and C/S’d under LRH. She trained up to Class XII but did not intern those levels. It would be fantastic to get her out of the church and cleaned up. And auditing independents!!!

    – Ron Matlock

  48. Exactly. But DM would claim he is above the same laws that protect women from the gross sexist behavior of their CEOs. No, in his sick little world it’s all an official religious practice, and trademarked at that.

  49. Marty and Mike,
    Thank you, gentlemen, for the hat tip to the women of Scientology.

    David Miscavige’s misognyny has certainly been noted by most of us. The fact that you specifically point it out, though it is but one tentatcle of his monstrosity, is deeply appreciated.


  50. Make that misogyny (not misognyny).

  51. one of five

    “… It’s almost like he derives some sort of sexual tittilation out of talking dirty …”

    Eventually, what DM’s new (triple super-secret) fund-raising paradigm will be reduced to:

    “1-900-DIRTYPOPE ….. call now and let us indulge your most wildest fantasies of humiliation and degradation ….. only 99¢ per minute … and the first minute is free !”

  52. As I posted before – I personally talked to a long term friend of mine (female), who Miscavige struck to the face and bounced her head off a file cabinet. This girl was a veteran Sea Org member. She is very SWEET, professional and competent. She hasn’t spoken out publicly yet due to her professional life.

    As a point I know many ex-Int staff who haven’t spoken out publicly yet but have said they would be willing to testify, if they thought their action would really count.

    Angie Blankenship might make a good witness some day. I know she liked to dish out evil for Miscavige, but now that she is out and has a baby, maybe she will start turning human again, given enough time. I doubt she would purger herself on the witness stand these days.

    As a note, I have been friends with Angie’s family for about 25 years. I gave them a little briefing about Miscavige. I also gave them a heads up that Angie would be coming out of the Sea Org, probably declared an SP
    and she would need their help.

    I can’t see the future getting any brighter for Dave. The guy has just overwhelmed his universe with crimes and secrets. Poor OSA is just working itself to death trying bail out the water from Dave’s sinking canoe while Dave just keeps poking more holes in it.

  53. “It ain’t what they call you. It’s what you answer to. ” W.C. Fields

    David Miscavige can call Debbie whatever %&#@ name in the book he wants…and I’m sure he has.
    We all know Debbie answers to “strong, smart, classy, beautiful friend”.
    Interesting, great post! Thank you.

  54. Tony DePhillips

    Great post Marty.
    Another thing that I thought of that aligns with his mysogny is the fact that he made children in the Sea Org verboten.
    He essentially squashed the main product of the second dynamic within the Sea Org. LRH talked of the value of women raising children and there were kids in the Sea Org when LRH ran things. LRH had kids.
    Why would dm squash this unless he really wanted to suppress women?
    Hell, he squashed it for the men also. In fact he made the whole second dynamic an area that he could suppress men and women with his ultra control of an area that is a native create for men and women. What a great way to introvert both men and women by telling them that if they had second dynamic urges to pro create that they were “out-ethics” and sec check them on masturbation as if this was a huge crime.
    To me it does peg dm as being very aberated on the second dynamic as well as his other dynamics.

  55. Tony DePhillips

    “It sucks to be Misavige.”

    Like!! 🙂

  56. Michael Fairman

    Your’s is a fascinating hypothesis regarding Miscavige’s psychology. He seems to prove it for us at every turn.

    As for your comments to Scientologists and non-Scientologists: they should be useful to every free-thinking individual who wants to create a better life and a better world. Your thoughts are beautifully expressed, with reason and understanding. We should all take note.

  57. He polluted the womb called the Church. He drove off all of his siblings.
    He made children illegal. His wife is missing from action yet not honestly released from duty. He has women torturing other women on command.
    He overtly abuses and degrades women. Come on, you have to know people by their actions. He clearly has little if any regard for women. He took down Mary Sue Hubbard when he could have just as easily lifted her up. I agree with Marty 100% on this one. The funny thing is, David is in the valence of a bad Queen.

  58. martyrathbun09

    Good point Robert.

  59. martyrathbun09

    Cockroaches, indeed.

  60. martyrathbun09

    Wait till you see the entire context and truth behind that episode.

  61. “… I know many ex-Int staff who haven’t spoken out publicly yet but have said they would be willing to testify, if they thought their action would really count.”

    That’s really great news, Mat.

    I suppose David Miscavige really did believe (until recently) that he could commit all the crimes he wanted to against others, yet never suffer any consequences.

    But now, just imagine how many hundreds of people out in the world and beyond the reach of his sadism are willing and able to testify truthfully about the physical, mental, sexual, and emotional abuse they witnessed him dish out to his victims!

    Just imagine how that evidence would be received by a court — judge and/or jury — charged with evaluating the validity and reliability of Debbie’s testimony about having been coerced into that bogus videorecorded document signing ceremony that Abelson presided over for the benefit of “The Boss” (David Miscavige)!

    David Miscavige, you are so toast. 🙂


  62. Michael Fairman

    Please do a little research before you defend Rush. He has attacked women throughout his despicable history on the air.

  63. Very much looking forward to that.

  64. Good observation Sam.

  65. Good eye there Mr. Almblad. You are of course right about Diana. ANd she is still relegated no doubt to writing scripts that are never approved.

  66. Book 1, page 161

    Another example of Miscavige´s Misogyny are the forced abortions !
    Here is what Ron has to say about this matter:

    “Once the child is conceived, no matter how “shameful” the circumstances, no matter the mores, no matter the income, the man or woman who would attempt an abortion on an unborn child is attempting a murder……….

    Anyone attempting an abortion is committing an act against the whole society and the future: any judge or doctor recommenting an abortion should be instantly deprived of position and practice, whatever his “reason”

    From Dianetics The Modern Science of Mental Health, Book Two, Chapter Seven, page 161, fair use quote for discussion.

    It may be said louder but not clearer Mr. Miscavige; Ron wants you to leave !

  67. I agree that masturbation has gotten a bad rap in corporate Scn … what’s up with that?

  68. Sam, I am not easily repelled by words. But the words posted on those sites are seething with hate and and unholy purposes. The “mind” behind those posts is long gone. Only the L’s are going to fix that. If it can be fixed at all. Can you imagine L.R.H. condoning anything like that? I know of a few people that will not connect with the Church in any capacity , that are still in good standing, as a result of seeing those sites. The worst P.R.!

  69. I can just picture Miscavige in front of Judge Judy:
    JJ: Did you did this Mr. Miscavige?
    DM: uhmm….
    JJ: “uhmm” is NOT AN ANSWER!!!!

  70. What’s up Kurt? Your ideas matter to us. You matter to us. You would matter a lot more in this theater if you would reach for the phone. Please summon up your power and use it to end this madness put upon us!

  71. I have one for you:

    “where is super-bitch?”

    (Not said by Miscavige but by one of his adoring thugs at FSO, asked when inquiring on the whereabouts of the Call-in I/C [a female])

    This clearly is the culture legacy of Miscavige.

  72. PrettyNiceLady

    I disagree. He does not attack women for being women. He attacks anyone who he thinks is being destructive. He’s also very tongue in cheek.

  73. How about Al Capone´s activities look like playing Patty Cake

  74. David Miscavige has no idea of the force that he has unleashed by attacking the wrong woman, Debbie Cook, especially when backed up by the Independents. He has no idea of how dangerous women are in a fight. There is an LRH lecture that details this; sorry, but I don’t have the reference, but he talks about how dangerous they are because they have no rules: they will do anything to win. Women who are out in the field away from the Church are no longer bound by the “rules” of the Church. That is what makes him so unfair in a fight. David Miscavige uses loyalty to LRH and the “rules” LRH set up, against any opponent. That is the ONLY thing he has to his advantage, people still IN refrain from using the courts, refrain from using protest PR, refrain from speaking out, refrain from doing anything effective, because they are afraid of being disloyal, and they are afraid of disconnection.

    Once OUT, it is so much easier to defeat David Miscavige because all these things are available for use. David Miscavige is no match for a strong woman backed up by the Indies, and who is using Ethics, Justice, PR, and the counter Black PR tech, against him. He is just starting to find out what he has unleashed!

  75. Term of the Day
    A group of homogeneous tasks related by similarity of functions. When performed by an employee in an exchange for pay, a job consists of duties, responsibilities, and tasks (performance elements) that are (1) defined and specific, and (2) can be accomplished, quantified, measured, and rated. From a wider perspective, a job is synonymous with a role and includes the physical and social aspects of a work environment. Often, individuals identify themselves with their job or role (foreman, supervisor, engineer, etc.) and derive motivation from its uniqueness or usefulness.

  76. Jethro Bodine

    I agree with Sea Org’s policy of letting women rise or sink according to their competence or incompetence; there is no glass ceiling, or at least that used to be the case. I personally knew quite a few very smart women in the Sea Org. In spite of that, I never got use to being comfortable with calling a female Sea Org executive the title of “Sir”, especially one who is wearing a skirt and has make-up on her face. I’m all for respect, but really…

    BTW, Miscavige doesn’t just hate women; he hates EVERYBODY – women, men, children, elderly, Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Chinese, gays, lesbians…. well, you get the idea. A true sociopath doesn’t discriminate. Miscavige is stuck in an incident and that really sucks. In other words, it sucks to be Miscavige.

  77. The interesting thing is that no guy would buy into that op basis. Henning Bendorff was trying (this was before I left) but he was sort of a douchebag anyway and I don’t think he could pull it off. Eric Geisler tried but blew himself off when he realized what was going on. Gary Weise, well, he was always kind of a red ass bully but DM hates him with a passion because Weise is so incorrigible and know best. No, it was left to dimbulbs like Lisa Schroer and Jenny DeVocht and Angie Blankenship who had so little of their own smarts or personal power that they could bury that utterly and adopt DM’s “winning valence.” When I think of the idiotic crap I used to take from those ninnies . . . oh, well, live and learn. Those women have a few learning experiences of their own just up ahead.

  78. I suspect the Dear Misleader didn’t exactly approve of the judge in the D Cook trial with her “The witch is in” placque proudly displayed. I wonder who got screamed at for not “manipulating” a more “co-operative” judge here.

  79. I have seen those blogs. They are all full of fake “conversations” Probably the same person using different names talking to herself or himself (I think it´s called insanity)

    They are hardly visited if at all. Just like the idle orgs.

  80. Joy, around 2000 I read all the letters that LRH wrote to MSH while he was away in Las Palmas researching OT III and MSH was back at St. Hill. He wrote her every single day. Very tender letters. He signed them, “Your sugie” (as in sugar). His love and appreciation for MSH really came through strongly. He wrote a letter every single day talking about how it was going, commenting on the locality, the dog that barked incessantly, the state of degradation that the local population was in, his various ailments, how his research was going, just stuff that one person would share with his most intimate comm line.

  81. Defender of Theta

    FOTF2012 – You make a lot of sense. Look at Miscavige’s reported anti-2D behavior: banning children in the SO, breaking up marriages, banishing his own wife, etc.

    Such people are often sexual confused and, so, become anti-sex, but cover up their own internal conflicts and confusions with public posturing as being strong advocates of “ethical 2D behavior.”

    However, went you get through the PR, their supposed “strong ethics” is actually a secret hatred for the vitality, lifeforce, and healing that flows through the 2D.

    It may be a stereotype, but I believe it is nonetheless true that many women have a special healing/nurturing ability, that runs from tough love, through nurturing, to sexual healing (credit: Marvin Gaye).

    That special revitalization ability of many women would naturally be a threat to a tyrant, and hence a target for destruction.


  82. I have a bit of confusion. First off, I totally agree Miscavige is a textbook definition of a misogynist and homophobe. But I’ve always been surprised at the amount of women around him all the same. He may hate women, but it’s obvious he is threatened by every man in the SO too. Years ago a photo of RTC made the rounds on the web. Marty your in the group photo off to the right, away from the big pyramid group (I always thought it appeared you & the 2 next to you had been photoshopped in.) but the main large group, which was RTC staff I believe, is almost ALL women. The same goes for a lot of high level SO – women. I’ve always wondered why the SO seems to be so heavily female at the upper levels.

    I would say LRHs day he felt he could trust certain women 100% and found them competent, so they reached high levels. With DM I’ve always thought he thinks he can control women, therefore he puts them in certain positions. He is furious when these “mere” women who are supposed to be his pawns demonstrate they have a spine.

    There also seems to be some sick sexual component with the women in his inner circle – like Lou and Jenny. I don’t think it has anything to do with love on his part, more it’s just one more way he can totally dominate and control them. Unfortunately I’m sure the women who have been unfortunate enough to know DM’s two inches probably do “love” worship and have some female instinct to try and protect him. He takes advantage of any aulturistic motivations of the women, or anyone around him, in the most foul ways.

    Can you add any insight as to why such a misogynist asshole has so many SO women around?

    (just read Amy Scobee’s comment where she commented all of WDC was female during her time on it and Miscaviges treatment of them, sick sick stuff)

  83. Ann Howe- Tim Swanson

    Dan; I am uncertain of where you are getting your data but let’s review some information pertinent to the time.

    MSH was indicted in Aug 1978. Around this time LRH was flat on his back, near death, or so it seemed. The NOTS materials started being released in Sept of 1978 as LRH’s health improved, a month later. So for a time LRH was completely out of the box concerning the workings of the church and current events. Apparently MSH was not made aware of LRH’s condition.

    The case against MSH continued from Aug 78 until Dec 79.
    She resigned her post in 1981 and had exhausted her appeals by 1983.

    LRH was successfully sequestered by DM during this time period and had control of LRH attorneys and the information line to and from him. DM was putting alarming information about the various gov’t cases pending against him on his lines. Ref The All Clear Unit. I’m sure it appeared to LRH that all of Scientology could be destroyed if the proper steps thought this perceived mine filed were not followed. Much of this misinformation being fed to LRH, we now know, was actually created by DM but this was not then known by LRH. It is safe to assume that DM did not provide accurate information about MSH’s case to LRH during this period.

    People that have written about this time period, who were present, say that LRH had to be repeatedly dissuaded from coming forward. Considering the developments during that year, NOTS, NED, etc. I am grateful for his decision however terrible it must have been for him to make. To state that LRH threw MSH under the buss is leaving out a considerable number of influences during that time including an information black out and simply goes against everything the man stood for and is a mischaracterization of the scene.

    Those that have read, studied and audited with Std Scientology tech have come to know LRH through his works regardless if they had personally worked with him of not. It is inconceivable that he would discard his wife and confidant or throw her under the buss.

    I think a more in depth study and evaluation of the various and many events and circumstances surrounding this time period are necessary in order to understand what actually occurred,

    A cursory reading of some accounts or narratives does not provide ample materials for evaluation and there are still many “haters” posting whatever nastiness they feel compelled to post. (not directed at you) A much greater sampling of information is necessary for a proper evaluation of the scene as it existed. Some personal reflection of that information is also necessary to comprehend the setting more fully.

    This was a tumultuous time for LRH & MSH. There was much at stake. There was much suppression the lines, DM and others (govt’ agents) were working to create mayhem within the Church. They succeeded.

    We are the result and the solution.

  84. LRH quote
    “Its amazing. I found this out about girls very unfortunately, very, very young. I found out when they were mad at you, their attention yanked off of it very easily by giving them a box of candy, a new dress, or something like that. Disillusioned me. I put it this way to myself when I found out how easy this was — I put it this way to myself; well, their anger was insincere. I don’t know what I considered sincere anger was.

    “Then later on — later on — later on I finally discovered the horrible truth that they merely wanted reassurance of your affection; that was the only thing they wanted. And when you presented this in a solid mass form, why, they were convinced. And that was about all there was to it; it was a very simple mechanism. Served to collect their attention quick from the old quarrel. What was easier? It’s too bad every young man doesn’t learn this and then there would be a very, very calm civilization here, I’m sure. Frankly, all you’d need to know about a marriage. …

    “Yeah, you give girls things because you like them and to centralize their attention off of all the bad things you’re done or said.” – L. Ron Hubbard

    Excerpted from the 20th American ACC.

  85. Isn’t it ironic how Truth is present even in lies- take Debbie Cook’s declare as a suppressive. Miscavige, obviously can’t come out and compliment her on her courage and integrity — so he declares her suppressive.
    Now, do the math> A suppressive person issuing a suppressive declare is a double negative — Debbie should be proud. A suppressive has considered her suppressive – most impressive!!
    Keep up the good work Debbie!

  86. Your humble servant

    He could not hate men near so much hated he not women more.

  87. Aida Thomas talking about alterations of the HCOPL “Ethics ,Justice and the Dynamics” and shows that parts on the 2nd dynamic where deleated in its “newspeak” edition.

  88. Sammie, I’m sure the guys would be happy to supply you ladies with spiffy new Louisville Sluggers for the job.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  89. Dan, you are forwarding false anti-Hubbard propaganda which Darth Midget’s minions have sewn amongst the so-called “critics”.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  90. Handbook For Preclears, The Thirteeth act

    “The Facsimilies of an individual can become considerably scrambled by masturbation. Practically all the ape family and Man masturbate. Masturbation is a prohibition result. It couldn’t drive anyone crazy. But it can make the individual pull old sex facsimilies into present time for self-stimulation and opens the door for him to desire facsimilies to be in present time. After a while , he will be pulling pain fecsimilies into present time.

    You sure twisted this one Dave.

  91. Yes, your perspective on this would be revealing. This seems to be the time when DM began his power grab.

  92. Robert: Diana was my senior from late 1975 til late 1979. She was removed from post by Jane Kember/MSH for attempting to wrestle the Mission Office Worldwide away from the iron first and finances of Jane Kember.

    Unfortunately her plan was intercepted and Jane was alerted AS the mission office files and staff were preparing to “escape” in the dead of night to come to the US. John Woodruff, Mission Holder of Orange County was to be the new Mission Officer World Wide and the MOWW was to have been housed at the enormous Orange County Mission. Not sure of this date but perhaps Nancy Many remembers. It was after Roanne had been born I’m almost sure.

    As soon as I could I escaped from the craziness of what had become the CS6 (Commodore Staff 6) area as I was one of the co-conspirators with Diana. I was in charge of the logistics. (it was Diana’s idea, and John and I were helping her execute it)

    By 1980 Diana was possibly back on post but this time under Bill Franks as ED Int – she was part of the Int Strata as head of Div 6 (it was called something different) … I had been shuffled out of full time training for Int Strata (put there by Ronnie Miscavige) and was now out of Flag Management and over to the Flag Service Org.

    I do know that in May of 1980 she was on a 3 month tour of Boston as spokesperson for Scientology creating a huge crusade of some sort.

    By July 1980 I left the SO after the death of my dad. Returned to Flag to route out by Sept or so. Diana was on post under Franks.

    The “famous” Mission Holder conference was sometime I believe in 1981 or ’82 wherein Franks summoned all the Mission Holders to Flag saying things were better … only to have DM declare people on the spot.

    But it’s a very fuzzy time … so my dates could be off a tad.

    I saw Diana in 1983 – around March at St. Hill. She was out of the SO, divorced and remarried to John Ryan. She never mentioned dm to me but did mention several times how Franks intended to kill her (not literally) and how she had to leave as she was quite ill.

    Diana was definitely the friend to the Mission Holders although she often sent me — much to their dismay — to talk to them as they came often and frequently to Flag to see her (when they were getting service).

    I don’t doubt that she mentioned dm to you. She was just very vocal about Bill Franks to me.


  93. Statue? He has a statue? Can you elaborate?

  94. George M. White

    Your post has reached me. I remember the great kindness of my own mother and grandmother. Miscavige’s words and actions are so wrong.
    The Buddha 2,600 years ago allowed women into the holy life and stated that women could achieve enlightenment. This was a powerful statement to make in the male dominated society of ancient India.
    There are two very powerful women in Buddhist literature who are my favorites – Visakha and Subha.
    Visakha – It is said that she “excelled in both worldy wisdom and spiritual insight”. She met the Buddha and sold her golden robe to build a monastery.
    Subha – This Buddhist Nun was met by a potential rapist in a beautiful mango gove. Rather than submit to his temptation, she plucked out her eye and handed it to the young man who then begged her for forgiveness.

    Rush Limbaugh and David Miscavige need a buddhist attitude adjustment.


  95. Tom Gallagher


    Thanks for a more accurate comment regards Ron and Mary Sue than the fictional theory ‘Dan’ proffered.

    The truth has prevailed. And it’s simple, POB is a usurper.

  96. Random Stranger, is’nt there a “new” POB HCOB on the subject of masturbation?

  97. I am curious. In approximately what year did the practice, albeit off policy practice, begin in the S.O. of making compliance with orders more important than compliance with written tech and policy? Or was it always that way? I cannot imagine actually witnessing someone doing some of the things that Miscavige has done and not speaking up, no matter what the personal consequences. And it is hard to imagine not jumping into the fray to try to stop it if I saw someone aggressively assaulting someone else, no matter what the personal consequences, or how many goons in his entourage. I mean, wtf? I really don’t understand this and I have not lived a sheltered life. So, does anyone know when this apathetic attitude seeped into the S.O. culture? I have the impression that it was not always that way. Was there ever a time in the history of the S.O. when people could object to orders or activities and get it sorted out with tech and policy without suffering draconian consequences?

  98. “… absudity (sic) to drive home a point,” is, I believe, called humor. Maybe Rush should run his form of humor on Comedy Central. Ha-ha-ha…, just saying.

  99. morelivesthanacat

    She’s referring to the generally hated unic “IAS” statue at Saint Hill. It’s been thought for years that this otherwise perfect specimen has no penis–presumably because this modern Church of all churches frowns upon the depiction of genitals, breaking with thousands of years of traditional religious art. However, as it turns out, if one takes a closer look, there is actually a microscopic one there.

    And now you know why Dave has a statue.
    And now you know more about Dave than you really wanted to know.

    But it does, in part, explains some of his problems.

  100. The one outside the Castle at St. Hill I believe. (Tho maybe not a depiction of Miscavige, I suppose it is “his” – I’m sure in his mind he owns everything connected to the CofS anyway.)

  101. Thank you for this. Not surprising really, but wonderful to hear!

  102. morelivesthanacat

    And in December 78 MSH came to visit LRH for Christmas. I was on QM at Rifle (LRH’s house) near a residential neighborhood in La Quinta, California, when at 2 am a small dog appeared on the lawn. I went over to investigate and as I rounded the corner of the house I saw a lady walking beside the house as well. Not quite knowing what do to or say to explain my own presence at 2am dressed in an army jacket “guarding a house” to what appeared to be a wandering neighbor, I leaned down and patted the dog nicely while asking, “Hi, what’s your name?”
    “Mary Sue Hubbard. What’s yours?” came the reply.

    No Dan, LRH never threw MSH under the bus

  103. +1

  104. Tom Gallagher

    David Miscavige,

    You really are some of kind of weird perv . Hope ya’ like your upcoming cell block roommates.

    Those regulatory orange jumpsuits look really good with a tan; better tone up ‘big boy’

    By the way Dave, you’d better pray there aren’t any female guards. They probably won’t understand the coffee enema stuff.

  105. Michael with respect I don’t need to ” research ” Rush. I simply don’t wanted him to be painted as a ” bedfelow ” of DM.

    Rush is not an anti-social personality. Just this evening he recognized his error with regard to the young woman and issued an apology publically.

    HIs real ” crime ” is that his politcs offend some people

  106. Wow…..please excuse me for not cleaning up that post.

  107. Joy, the Georgetown student you referenced is 30 years old. The reproductive healthcare needs she requested? Translated, she wants the government to pay for her contraceptives. Enough already. At some point people really have to start taking responsibility for themselves.

  108. Ronnie Bell

    Brilliant! I just may have to post that to Facebook.

  109. Michael Fairman

    Regarding Mr.”tongue in cheek”, start with the following link then forage away


    If however, you happen to be sitting on the Right Wing, forget it.

  110. Cured Robot

    From what I’ve read, he’s not only taken down powerful women but so many powerful men. It seems as if no one is immune from his savageness but he is able to do it in a more salacious manner when it comes to women, but then the gay shit he accused Yager and Guillome of committing is pretty out there as well. The apparency is that he holds Tom Cruise and other movie stars on a pedestal but then he initially did that to everyone he managed to destroy? If I were them I would be very afraid of what’s in store for them. A true SP isn’t suddenly capable of decency to some but not others except where it serves his purpose of receiving love and adulation, particularly at those rediculous events. Notice how every OT completion success story has to state their love and adulation to RTC . As long as you kiss ass you’ll be ok people but the minute you step outside the box and disagree, you are doomed.

  111. KF, I side with you on this 100%. I’ve listened to Rush since 1988; he is no misogynist. He is an entertainer among other things. Broadcasting 3 hours a day over 24 years, anyone is bound to say something stupid from time to time.

    Probably best to keep our political opinions out of this blog – one’s views on Rush are an instant giveaway as to whether you are on the right or left. Why bring that games condition into the discussion? We are all in agreement on the single issue: David Miscavige must be removed from post as quickly as possible and the damage done by him confronted & handled.

  112. And Diana Hubbard

  113. And the book will be a movie. End of story.

  114. Ronnie Bell

    -unmocking women’s right to choose regarding abortion –

    Ahem….let’s call abortion what it really is, shall we? It’s murder – plain and simple. A woman (or man) should have no ‘right’ to destroy the human life of another.

  115. Tom Gallagher


    I agree. Let me add, though, she needs to be audited (cleaned up) by an independent first. IMHO.

    Say hi to Michelle, by the way!

  116. Ronnie Bell

    David Miscavige and Rush Limbaugh would be good buddies.

    If you believe that, then you have sorely misjudged Rush. I’ve been a fan of his for well over a decade, and can tell you that Miscavige is just the sort of criminal strong man that Rush truly despises. If DM were a politician, Rush would be flaying him alive, every day of the week.

  117. Ronnie Bell

    Hey you 🙂

  118. Joy I agree with much of what you are saying, but again, I would request politely that political opinions do not belong here. Of course Marty is the judge of that, but as he gently pointed out to me one time when I made a politically-tinged comment, “Politics is the last refuge of a scoundrel”.

    Just to point out one specific, I heard Sandra Fluke’s testimony. She is of the opinion that she and all college students have a RIGHT to have their contraceptive devices provided FREE, subsidized by the US taxpayer.

    I believe it is perfectly legitimate to believe that no one has a “right” to demand that others subsidize their contraception or many other things; to portray this position as somehow equal to the Taliban is absurd on its face.

  119. Above is the direct link to the photograph I reference in my post, just in case my HTML code doesn’t embed the image, which is likely since I’m not sure which version word press comments use and can’t edit/correct if I see it didn’t work.

    As you can see in the photograph of at least 15 years ago the majority of people pictured are women. This was always one of the thing I wondered about when seeing it, the women outnumbering the men by such large numbers.

    For all you former SO execs – I’d be very curious to know how many in the photo are still in the SO and how many ended up in the hole or RPF. I bet very few, if any, remain one way or the other.

  120. Tom Gallagher

    +1 exactly.

  121. Susan, that is funny! I love Judge Judy! I can picture it now.

  122. Wonderful post, Tim, one of the most accurate and objective. Thank you muchly.

  123. Kevin, I like it!

  124. WH this is fascinating history. Can you clarify one point for me – that is, was Diana conspiring against Kember, and therefore removed from post by Kember AND her mom? The way you state it – “Jane Kember/MSH” makes it sound that way.

  125. Michael Fairman


    With due respect to you, comments like that indicate that you are not aware of a wide range of comments he has made through the years outside of politics, As far as Limbaugh not being a “bedfellow” of Miscavige – he denigrates all other viewpoints but his own; he engages in demagoguery, he constantly speaks in sexual innuendo, constantly makes ad hominem attacks, bullies people who confront him on the air, and makes his stock in trade, for which he is paid millions, the generation of hate and defamation. He apologized because he got hit where he can be hurt the most, in his pocketbook — sponsors are leaving. I’m sorry I may have offended you by suggesting research, but as I commented to, PrettyNiceLady, if you happen to sit on the Right Wing fringe, forget it.

  126. RK, that is a slam on Rush and I for one am offended by it.

    You and others continue to express your political leanings here; therefore I will too.

  127. Publius..thank you and of course you are right. Some personalities are simply to politically hot to mention……

  128. HereNow, I like that!

  129. Yes, this was after,

    “The “famous” Mission Holder conference was sometime I believe in 1981 or ’82”

  130. Sing… “he had it coming”…. from “Chicago” the musical movie.
    I can see the script too. But we’ll wait on that, for now.

  131. Gary Morehead. Aka Jackson


    Thank you so much for adding yet another glorious and beautiful stroke of color you, I and others haves contributed to this abstract on canvase we have been providing the world of TRUTH to take in and enjoy!

    Right now I’m biking and listening to something I think y’all will not only enjoy with me but find also contributes to the topic at hand! And DAVID MISCAVIGE…. I’d kick your puny ass at biking ANYDAY!!!

    Here’s the song I’m listening to……

    Arrrrrrrrrre you gonna take me home tonite!
    Arrrrrrrrrre Down beside that red fire light!
    Arrrrrrrrrrre you gonna let it all hang out, FAT BOTTOMED GIRLS YOU MAKE THE ROCKIN WORLD GO ROUND!!


    A kind nod to all I’ve riden along with and by I salute with a HELL YEAH…. GET ON YOUR BIKES AND RIDE!!

    — Jackson

  132. Random Stranger


    1) Just look at his hair.

    2) How about that lisp?

    3) What’s with that dainty podium stance?

    4) Look at his photos, do those wrists look limp or what?

    5) Chronically overly emotional.

    6) His face and nails are polished.

    7) His closest relationship is with a man.

    8) He’s so theatrical.

    9) He likes watching men dance on stage.

    10) He likes big pillars.

  133. OneFlyingFromThe CuckoosNest

    ” He has no idea of how dangerous women are in a fight.”

    The old saying comes to mind-

    Happy wife = happy life.

  134. Sam, loved every word! There is truth in all you say. I have seen it with OT VIII’s in the Bay Area…..just a little slap on the wrist and your good to go…. all this after families were destroyed.

  135. I’m sure there are also many other women who could testify to his behavior as well. Maybe Karen Hollander, Susan Watson, Laurie Zurn, Rena Wienberg, Kay Connelly, et. al. Wonder where they all are now? Is Maria Ferrara still the current president of CC Int?

  136. At some point people really have to start taking responsibility for themselves. Amen!!!!

  137. Tim

    Thank you for that data/clarification.

    Your statement… “A much greater sampling of information is necessary for a proper evaluation of the scene as it existed. Some personal reflection of that information is also necessary to comprehend the setting more fully.”,,, I am in total agreement with.

    I have been “hobby-horsing” the concept of a multiple viewpoint Data Eval on these 3rd Dynamic situations.. It became apparent to me, that like 3rd Dynamic auditing, 3rd Dynamic Evals would require the input of as many viewpoints as possible to get the full picture.

    It has become very clear to me lately that one of the biggest outpoints, or perhaps “Whys” for the state that Scientology finds itself in is due to misuse or lack of the use of proper data evaluation.

    Data evaluation seems to be a common denominator of how beings seem to operate in this universe. It is way up there, just below the “Qs”.
    One’s successes or one’s failures as a being, seem to hang on their ability or willingness to accurately evaluate data.

    Auditing will not work unless the PC is able to accurately perceive and evaluate the data in his “bank”, against other comparable data sets.
    Training will be only as effective as a student accurately perceives, and then evaluates the data against other comparable data sets.
    Successful management depends intimately upon upper managements skills in correct observation and accurate Data Evaluation.
    Data evaluation itself will not work unless one perceives accurately and then evaluates that data against other comparable data sets.

    Anyway just some thoughts that I have been bandying about.

    Eric S

  138. Tom Gallagher


    As I recall, they, POB’s fawning coterie, are called ‘fag hags’ in some societal sub-cultures.

    Never-the-less, at this point, they’re all just dramatizing mutual out-ruds. IMHO

  139. He issued a public apology because his advertisers started to drop him like a hot potato.

  140. Thank you for providing this data.

  141. Dave, it’s closing in Dave.

    It’s getting smaller. It’s picking up speed Dave.

    And it’s headed right toward you.

    And many are feeling relief finally.

    Dave, it’s over.

  142. Ha! Imagine the insanity of POB+OSA desperately trying to figure out who has been talking to Mat saying that DM had “struck to the face and bounced her head off a file cabinet” so that they can deny that he had, struck to the face and bounced her head off a file cabinet.”

  143. Excellent point, Bela.
    As a Pole myself, I learned in the schoolyard what bullying was: it’s the SP’s compulsion to find any slightest weakness in a person to exploit. Yes, it’s all about self-esteem.

    Miscavige will pick on anyone to humiliate or ridicule – married partners, children, gays, disabled, sick, women, foreigners, senior staff, LRH. If not overtly, then covertly. Hence his obsession with invalidating the Scientology materials, levels and grades, his unnatural focus on ethics, and creepy tinkering with the tech and cases. Most notable is his contempt for an individual’s honour. You won’t hear him praising anyone, unless the ultimate credit falls to him personally.
    A classic SP, but entirely predictable in his brutal cynicism of the human race. I can guarantee that no-one has a collection of tender love-notes or touching verses from this man.

    Me, I could never see what was wrong with being a Pole, and so never took any notice. In fact, being attacked always seemed to have a pleasingly reassuring status all of its own.

    Richard Kaminski

  144. Another way that David Miscavige dramatizes his hatred of women is forcing the husband to divorce her, so she is kicked out.

    1) Sandy Wilhere was kicked of Base to Los Angeles after Greg Wilhere was ordered to divorce her after a marriage of 25+ years.
    2) Guilllame Lesevre was ordered by Miscavige to Divorce Vanella after a marriage of 20 + years. Vanella was then kicked off base.
    3) Warren Mcshane of RTC Legal still apparently hanging in there after 3 decades of abuse was forced to divorce Marcy which again was obediently done to please Miscavige. Marcy was offloaded.
    4) Marc Yager was forced to divorce Michelle Yager which he obediently complied with.
    There is a compilation of at least 100 or more couples forced to divorce who meekly did so on the order of Miscavige.

    Miscavige also ordered his own parents to divorce and they obeyed.

  145. Here’s what L. Ron Hubbard, has to say about women. That would be “slits” for you, Dave.

    I’m sure this reference (below) has been “key” in the constant and continual effort to destroy women by applying it 100% backwards just as all of the other tech has been twisted beyond recognition.

    IMHO, the only reason Debbie out-lasted all the other women who were destroyed is the fact that she was on the other frickin’ end of the country. Of course, that is until she was soooo desperately “needed” in California and then taken down by the pinkie at that point. The same goes for Mrs. Sonnenfield…she’s miles away. She’s probably next on the list.

    LRH says:
    ” Men are difficult and troublesome creatures, but valuable. The creative care and handling of men is an artful and a beautiful task. Those who would cheat women of their rightful place by making them into men should at last realize that by this action they are destroying not only women, but the men and the children as well. This is too great a price to pay for being “modern” or for someone’s petty anger or spite against the female sex.

    The arts and skills of woman, the creation and inspiration of which she is capable and which, here and there in isolated places in our culture, she still manages to effect in spite of the ruin and decay of mans world which spread around her, must be brought newly and fully into life. These arts and skills and creation and inspiration are her beauty, just as she is the beauty of Mankind.” L. Ron Hubbard
    * from SOS, Section on Sexual Behavior Attitude toward children)

    Dave, don’t let it get to you too much that I made it publicly known or let the cat out of the bag regarding what LRH, (the original and infinite opinion leader on Scientology, not you) has to say about women because I’m simply one of the many “slits” removed from a Senior Exec post in an org and replaced by a man sheeple because I had the audacity to focus on 339R programs instead of the silly Idle Morgue programs that you continuously pull out of your ass.

    Oh and thank you sooooo much for the genuine CHICKEN SHIT, no confront, shoddy rendition of an “SP Declare” that you ordered to be announced via E-M-A-I-L on me last week.

    And DOUBLE thanks for subsequently ordering emails sent out letting my friends know that I had been declared. Seriously? This goes hand-in-hand with the numerous calls, emails, letters, home visits, E.O. interviews, KRs, TTSB and Comm Ev–ALL OF WHICH I NEVER RECEIVED!! Not one. Amazing.

    Unfortunately for you , this “beauty of mankind” saw right through it and recognized it all as an attempt to quickly shut her down, shut her up and stop her from spreading the truth. The email to my friends was an attempt to covertly influence my friends to disconnect. Damn it, Dave, despite the fact that my SP Declare email gave me the address of Int Justice Chief as “my only terminal” in Scientology, you forced me to send out yet ANOTHER mass email to my friends exposing your hopes or intentions for my friends to disconnect from me.
    After all was said and done, I only lost 2 percent (go figure) to “disconnection” (which of course is only imagined because “there ‘s no such thing as disconnection in Scientology”.) Doesn’t take a big, extravagant graphic scoreboard complete with rolling thunder sound & effects to figure out who the winner is, does it? Just for the record and so that its IN WRITING: I won!! .

    My question at this point: How’s all that working out for ya?

    I’ve been working on my Declaration of Independence and personal Scientology. Following this last week, I obviously have even more ridiculous material to include.

  146. Michael at this point I am just going to leave it alone.

    I realized when I went to bat for him I was asking for trouble as I was entering the field of politics……

  147. martyrathbun09

    About as dangerous as entering into the field of religion, isn’t it?

  148. Amy — wow, those kind of details make the insanity come to life. In my profession we have a standard called the red-face test: Would a given action, if printed on the front page of a major newspaper, be an embarrassment? If so, don’t do it. What you are recollecting in DM’s behavior is light year’s past the limits of where most sane people would even consider treading.

    Tone-wise it strikes me as negative — like -1.5, controlling bodies (“turn around so I can check you all out and laugh”).

    I don’t know you Amy but I’ve probably watched all your interviews. Thank you, Mike, Marty, and the many others who have spoken up and out.

  149. Tom Gallagher

    11) He dropped out of high school by the age of 16 and joined the Sea Org so his ‘diminutives’ couldn’t be seen in a common High School locker room shower.

    12) His BFF understands and embraces his ‘problem’.

  150. Sam, in Arizona there is something referred to as a Navajo blanket party. The Navajo are a some matriarchal society. The blanket party is when the women get a group together, track down a misbehaving male, throw a blanket over him, and then beat the crap out of him, sometimes with sticks or bats.

    Viven las womyn!

  151. Oops. My Spanish may be getting rusty. As a command form plural third person I think “vivir” would come out as “Vivan!” You all get the idea though.

  152. Robert Earle

    I am definitely interested in the book you are working on Marty. As I’m sure most if not all people reading the blog are as well.
    Also you mentioned above someone I had at least a brief acquaintance with and it sure would be great to have her here posting along with her husband although perhaps not too likely.
    I first met the Blythe family back in early 72 at the Denver Mission. Bitty’s mom (Jana) signed me up for my very first course in Scientology. Bitty’s sisters Griffee and Jennifer were both on HSDC then. I twinned with her younger sisters doing TRs (Sarah and Mary) . I recall going to Washington park in Denver to practice the dissem drill one weekend with Bitty.. She was 15 or 16 then. Later that year she joined the SO and shortly after went to the Apollo to be one of LRHs messengers. At which point I hadn’t heard much about her until I heard she was involved in the Freewinds establishment. Later I heard she was Bitty Miscavige and married to Ronnie.
    It would be wonderful for her (Bitty) to be here to share her views etc . Also for Ronnie to be here too. The two of you would be quite welcome I’m sure.

  153. “I have been “hobby-horsing” the concept of a multiple viewpoint Data Eval on these 3rd Dynamic situations.. It became apparent to me, that like 3rd Dynamic auditing, 3rd Dynamic Evals would require the input of as many viewpoints as possible to get the full picture.”

    Comment — this already exists in the standards of social science research. Getting more viewpoints increases the likelihood of reaching sound, objective conclusions. Good managers and supervisors also use this in the case of resolving conflict — gather all the facts before deciding.

    I wanted to mention the preceding as a concrete example of how the non-Scientology world and the Scientology world are NOT that far apart in some ways. All humans (or all of us as thetans), after all, have innate intelligence and do tend to figure things out logically.

  154. I can’t imagine any woman ever having sex with this guy!

  155. David Miscavige has no clue. Every man here, who has ever experienced the real love and support of a woman, knows… there is nothing more powerful than a woman with passion for what she believes in. But if you betray her…God help you!

  156. Cured Robot — thanks for reminding us of the alleged Yager-Leserve allegations from DM.

    This might be another indication of DM’s homophobia and latent homosexuality, if he does suffer from those disorders among others.

  157. Can’t wait!

  158. I have to say on Rush’s behalf that each year he holds a fundraising drive on his show for The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. The amount of funding he generates for this group is truely astounding. He has been doing it now for 19 years and this organization has had hugh success with bone marrow transplants

  159. Robert Earle

    PS I just got a nice ack from Debbie on my recent dono. I told her I’d be sending more soon. If you can and would like to I’d suggest you dono to her legal fund.
    Also Tony has posted the Church request for summary judgement at VV in case you want to read it.

  160. absolutely crazy. No doubt about it. And crazy means not understandable.

  161. Robert, thanks.

    You point out “As I learned many years later on Marty’s Blog , in 1981 Dianna could never find LRH because DM had the ONLY comm line to LRH so DM was free to spew any 3rd party poison about Dianna with impunity. Such 3rd party, is my speculation.”

    One of the things I’ve learned as a good management practice is to _never_ become reliant on one or just a small number of lines of communication or input.

    Is there LRH policy that asserts anything along those lines? If there was, then DM violated yet another area of Scientology policy by isolating LRH.

  162. Ryan, misogyny does not come with being gay. It may come as a reflex of being _repressed_ gay in self-denial. That’s an established fact in social research.

    The reflex may work along these lines: Deep inside I know I am gay or have gay tendencies; I refuse to acknowledge, confront, or accept this; to compensate for this inner fear I try to act super-macho and that can include suppressing women.

    Misogyny does not appear to be an affliction of gay men at all. It appears to be an affliction of supposedly heterosexual men who are deeply homophobic and have sexual identity problems.

    I hope that distinction makes sense.

  163. Ha Ha…..Hello Marty, I believe your right

    I have to tell you, for awhile there I was taking some comfort in my

  164. GMW,
    You are a truly evolved, kind-hearted gentleman who cares about his fellows and their well-being. It is moving to encounter your grace of being.

  165. Oy VEY…

  166. Right, pazooter! There are so many possible people it was done to, how to sort them out!

    Then to deniability — allegation not true because it was in fact not a file cabinet but a storage unit. Therefore the allegation is preposterous, utterly false! (fails exact time, place, event, etc.)

  167. Tony, good point where you say “Why would dm squash this unless he really wanted to suppress women?”

    Here’s a thought. Most religions expand through natural reproduction as much as, or even more so, through conversion of one sort or another.

    By impeding Scientology reproduction over say the last 30 years, how many potential Scientologists were _not_ added to the membership?

    Here though I have to be honest that I do not think any child should be subject to any religious indoctrination. They can make up their minds as adults. That’s just my view.

  168. Pat, Carol and Ronnie,
    I have a recommendation for all three of you. Actually I recommend everyone with a heart beating in their chest watch Tom Shadyac’s Documentary “I Am”.
    This is my gift to you. I hope you will watch it and find it enlightening.
    We are all one.

  169. Not to mention how LRH characterizes abortion in DMSMH.

  170. Sam, I just want to say I think your cool….even love you the way you smile and tilt your head in the photo ……just saying

  171. First Principle

    I too would like to know what’s going on with Kay, Maria, and Karen. Great women all.

  172. Publius,
    I have to say that what is happening in politics is a mirror of what is happening in the church and it takes confront to recognize that. Lies and hate, suppression and bigotry are alive and being perpetrated at a psycotic rate and many are drinking THAT kool-aide just as we used to drink DM’s flavor.
    The reason I brought it up in this thread is because it is relevant to what Marty has pointed out in this post.
    And as for quoting Marty (above) regarding politics on this blog I’d like to quote what Marty just said on a thread above from Michael Fairman’s comment.
    KFrancis said:
    “I realized when I went to bat for him (Rush Limbaugh) I was asking for trouble as I was entering the field of politics……”

    martyrathbun09 | March 4, 2012 at 4:37 am | Reply
    “About as dangerous as entering into the field of religion, isn’t it?”

    Sometimes it’s relevant…dangerous or not. The price of freedom – constant alertness, constant willingness to fight back.

  173. Shit Sam! That’s so effed up! And disgusting. And definitely misogynistic!

  174. Yes it is true, the mention of Mary Sue has been eradicated from any newly released lectures if it in any way gave praise to her. This is part of the new editorial “policy” which the editors are operating from.

  175. Robert Earle

    Thanks for the refs, views and update FishFlyToo. Look forward to your write up. Sounds like it might be a hot one.

  176. ThetaPotata

    LRH’s perceived shortcomings are obviously a touchy subject on this blog. I think everyone has to resolve this for themselves. Getting insight and the true data of what was going on with LRH after the upheaval in the Guardian’s Office after Operation Snow White is very helpful. To be honest it didn’t even occur to me that this may have been a time where DM was able to act as an SP on LRH’s lines, I guess I thought that LRH could spot an SP from a mile away. I still remember how amazed I was reading the HCOB about Richard Nixon, realizing how spot on LRH was about him years in advance of Watergate. The bus comment sounds bad but I think a lot of us have tried to resolve why things were handled the way they were. I had a conversation with Dick Weigan once and he described it by saying it was like marching into battle and you turn around and the army that you thought was behind you suddenly disappeared.

  177. This goes far back Joy, all the way back to the intentionally fabricated propaganda of Mary Magdalene and all the way back to Eve. Sensible, compassionate, intelligent and logical women have always been the subject of hatred from power-motivated men. LRH was one of the few who only stated the opposite and applied what he said in real life.

  178. Diana was sick and tired of the Guardians Office BECAUSE Jane Kember refused to allow “multiple missions” (for an upstat Mission Holder), made it nearly impossible for Missions to become Orgs (something she wanted to happen IF the mission chose to become and Org) and because the GO’s income was the 10% from the Missions.

    She didn’t begrudge the 10% per se, just that Jane instead of nurturing her income source made Diana’s life miserable BECAUSE she attempted to run the Mission Network – from the side …

    She was removed from post I believe by Kember and Mary Sue — Mary Sue was afterall Jane Kember’s senior.

    She was given back her senior position after awhile. But MSH wasn’t too pleased that she had tried to rip the mission network from St. Hill and the “quonset hut” they were housed in. The quonset hut remark was made by LRH when he went after Jane Kember for her treatment of the mission network … that came later when Diana was off the lines.


  179. Beautiful, beautiful post. My hat is off to you.

  180. I also read LRH’s letters including from, I believe, Morocco. A great privilege. He had a great love for Arabs, by the way, and credited them with some of the greatest breakthroughs of civilization. LRH felt very much at home there.

  181. Sam- I had to handle a couple that had been handled by a mission ethics officer . The guy had gone out 2D,-but because he was the one with the money, he barely even got a slap. For about 2 years his wife was totally pissed and he couldn’t understand why.-I had him work out of lowers on the 2D with amends etc.(he finally understood)-it saved their marriage.

  182. threefeetback

    Looks like the Misogyny is the basic thread that can unravel the Miscavige rein of terror. Opens the door to all of his hatred.

  183. Robert-Fascinating data.

  184. The fact he would strike a woman is so despicable.

  185. threefeetback

    Explains why he hasn’t been able to close the deal with Tom the putz?

  186. threefeetback

    Good examples of why some people avoided becomming a pet of DM like the plague.

  187. threefeetback

    Did DM know of GANG tactics prior to Scn and the SO? Recently sat on a jury and learned much about gangs.

  188. threefeetback

    nonsequitur datum items

  189. threefeetback

    from JG

  190. threefeetback


  191. Thanks, Marty, for pointing up how advanced Scientology was in gender equality in the earlier period, well ahead of the society at that time.The emphasis on being a thetan instead of a body was validating and refreshing. I have carried that with me my whole life. Will not add further comments about the sick low-toned actions and attitudes of David Miscavige about women (and everything else).

  192. I have observed that at least a part of this phenomena is related to individuals born into Scientology families. They are not introduced to Scientology and to the Church of Scientology as full fledged adults. They are raised with it, with all the unquestioning trust of children growing up in a particular religion. They are not Scientologists by deliberate and reasoned choice — they are Scientologists by birth and they are raised as Scientologists. Many went to Scientology schools, have only Scientologist friends, who are also born into Scientology, and have never experienced any other community or systems of thought. We are watching the evolution of a Church from a deliberately chosen path of an adult to the growth of a Church through generations born into it. Their parents taught them that the Church is trustworthy, LRH is a source of wisdom, the world needs to be cleared as it is full of insanity, and a whole host of concepts transmitted by mimicry, example, and uninspected truisms and methods of handling others. Ask yourself, have you ever heard a Scientology parent tell their child – that`s not okay or that was downstat or knock off the dramatization? I have. They want to be good Scientologists just as their parents did and that includes doing whatever one can to get up the bridge and help clear the planet. They are far less questioning and really, they do not have a support structure of any kind outside of the Church.

  193. Wood Dragon


  194. threefeetback

    I think that Jim L. will concur that she was pale and washed out when she returned from HV.

  195. threefeetback

    Rush may very well have been interested in Scn if he had not percieved outnesses with DM and Tom.

  196. Part of misogyny, hatred of women, is not allowing women to BE women, but rather making it ONLY acceptable to be, well, masculine type behaviour.

    I remember an instance when my dad was working during family time and I was waiting outside. Mary Sue went into his office and said something along the lines of, ‘your daughter is waiting for you…’ My dad said that [enter name of some scary senior] was waiting for [enter something terribly important] and Mary Sue repeated, ‘your daughter is waiting for you…’

    I thought this was cool.

  197. Rush apologized,which is something POB would never do.

  198. There is a reform code. Church Scientologists (or, rather, people who call themselves “Scientologists” while not in fact even vaguely approaching the real activities of those who apply Scientology to improve conditions in their lives) are ignoring this code at their own peril.

  199. +1000

  200. Harry Potter

    Comment of the YEAR:
    I keep dreaming of little David Miscavige taking the stand in his toy soldier outfit and giving us a “A Few Good Men” moment.

    “You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth! We live in a world that
    has spirits of dead aliens floating around. And dead alien spirits have to be
    eradicated by men with tin cans, and cool-looking outfits. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Judge? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Lisa McPherson and Shelly Miscavige, and you curse the $cientologists. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not being the ultimate authority on psychiatry. That Lisa and Shelly’s deaths, while an inconvenience, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t
    want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me and Tom Cruise on those bespoke motorbikes tricked out by the hard labor of my Sea Org slaves. You NEED us on those bikes. We use words like enturbulate, entheta, ethics. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent following..(LRH). You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide,
    and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just
    said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a set of cans, remortgage your house and sign a billion year contract. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.”

  201. FOTF2012

    It was not an LRH policy about communication. I should have said, DM was the only courier of communication. I think this one man courier of communication to LRH via DM in the last years of LRH’s life are pretty well documented on this site and others. It was called the “all clear project”.

  202. I am really looking forward to meeting you 🙂

  203. She is not a fan of Marty or Mike. To say the least. It might not be appropriate to post her videos here against the backdrop of her views on them posted on ESMB. You might want to ask her next time before putting her into a mix here.

  204. Bang on Lady Min!
    Out here the rules of the game are very different.

  205. No argument needed. He’s both.

  206. Sorry, FOTF2012, I misunderstood. I just got the meaning of your question. Yes, there are many LRH references about using multiple sources of information to evaluate a situation. See the Data Series.

    In this case, DM was the courier of information and could (illegally) not deliver other people’s communication on a subject making it a “no report” and then substitute his own communication to fill the vacuum… I am just pointing out the possibilities. Other people have directly reported on the “All Clear” project here on Marty’s blog and other websites like http://www.scientology-cult.com

  207. SunnyV – One point of being surrounded by woman, who are mostly smaller than the male, could be “looking bigger”. He cannot stay all the time in his fortress. Sometimes he has to strut around to show his importance. And he has to do inspections, to intimidate, to tell people how they are wrong, how they messed up again, how lowly he thinks of them etc. (Ah…karma. How is he being looked at now worldwide? He must have “pulled it in”).
    On the photo the men who are in the front are farther away from him. Maybe he hates the women surrounding him even more than the men, because he is dependent on their size “to be someone” – or in his case, I guess, “to be something”. – Karola

  208. The nature of politics in government is awash in false reports about how nasty or how good any political figure might be… so it’s probably best to reserve these comparisons of political figures for other politicians or it can lead to a misunderstanding. I agree with you: “Debbie, you go girl!” but in politics, I am also a Rush fan.

  209. Well said Ronnie.

  210. George M. White

    When Bill Franks was Captain at Flag in the early 1980’s, I was spending weekends in Clearwater flying in from Toronto. I saw Diana Hubbard near the Cashier’s office in the Fort Harrison. She looked very, very pale.
    Amazing Bill Franks – some weekends at Flag I was the lone PC.
    You could not get a session and auditors were not to be found.
    Bill Franks and I met and I asked him what was going on. He said “the world is on raging fire and I’m a fireman. The land base is the fire station”.
    Very interesting chapter in history. I was on OT5. Finally did get a very good auditor. He called me ‘old man river’.


  211. CrashingUpwards

    FOTF2012, the LRH material on organizations and communication in his book “how to live through an executive” states very clearly that the person who controls the lines of communication in an organization controls that organization. It may be the one LRH policy and advice David Miscavige most took to heart and used to gain control. The Diana story is a good example of its use in practice.

  212. I noticed a few people tried to tie Rush Limbaugh to the misogynistic tactics commonly used by Miscavige and his storm troopers. Since I stand up for all my friends I must call BULLSHIT. I have been a fan and avid listener of Rush Limbaugh for over 20 years. I happened to be in my car listening to the comments Rush was making about the Georgetown University female law student. Maybe his choice of words were poor, but I can tell you he was being sarcastic and very much tongue in cheek with his “SLUT” comment. Rush Limbaugh gets hit with lies by the LIBERAL main stream press on a regular basis, just like Marty & Mike get hit by lies from the Miscavige machine. What follows should put to rest any similarities some of you are trying to draw between my friend Rush Limbaugh and my enemy David Miscavige.

    A Statement from Rush
    March 03, 2012

    For over 20 years, I have illustrated the absurd with absurdity, three hours a day, five days a week. In this instance, I chose the wrong words in my analogy of the situation. I did not mean a personal attack on Ms. Fluke.

    I think it is absolutely absurd that during these very serious political times, we are discussing personal sexual recreational activities before members of Congress. I personally do not agree that American citizens should pay for these social activities. What happened to personal responsibility and accountability? Where do we draw the line? If this is accepted as the norm, what will follow? Will we be debating if taxpayers should pay for new sneakers for all students that are interested in running to keep fit?In my monologue, I posited that it is not our business whatsoever to know what is going on in anyone’s bedroom nor do I think it is a topic that should reach a Presidential level.

    My choice of words was not the best, and in the attempt to be humorous, I created a national stir. I sincerely apologize to Ms. Fluke for the insulting word choices.

  213. Karen, That is what I was saying he literally hated ALL the wives of the IGs, Sr Executives…. He did everything in his power to get rid of them including his own wife Shelly and his own mother Those ladies were definitely fighters!

  214. For me this was the turning point in the SO – how were we supposed to be creating a new civilization if we, ourselves, couldn’t have families? Once I realized that the inner Church had become a model of Orwell’ian antics, I left.

  215. Sara,
    Thanks for posting this here. Mary Sue was all about family. 🙂

  216. Indeed, his love for Arabs comes trough in many of his fictionals stories, too.

  217. Thank you, Dan.

  218. I am not aware of this.
    And I didn’t mind.
    The data she gives seems to be correct.
    And, power to LRH.

    Thank you, however, I will have a look and try to understand her viewpoint.


  219. Random Stranger

    Yes, but Tom objected to its publication and it almost turned into a kerfluffle between the two of them.

  220. A vertically challenged psychopathic tyrannical sociopath who hates Jews, women and ethnic minorities. Something vaguely familiar with this picture…

  221. Random Stranger

    Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot.

  222. I love that plaque! An insouciant judge – perfect tone level for what she’s going to be dealing with!

  223. I couldn’t agree more – hate speech and bigotry, especially when it is cloaked in a perversion of Christianity, Scientology, Islam, Judaism, etc. that justifies such behavior, needs to be exposed and condemned for what it is no matter the forum or where it sits in the political spectrum.

  224. Rush is not now and never will be a Misogynist. To think he is, is to only listen to the MSM and the progressives that are out to destroy America as we know it. Take some time to listen to Rush with out your fixed ideas.

    The girls point was ludicrous. She can get contraceptives anywhere.

    This is a religious issue not a womans issue. I was surprised that COS would condone Abortion as policy.

    We as Scientologist promote personal responsibility. That is also the basis of the conservative movement. If we do not have personal responsibility we will have to go to ethics. Not for punishment. But for realignment of our goals. Putting someone in jail or locking them away, unless they are actual threats is very suppressive. Remember when they locked Martha Stewart away for 18 months. Imagine the community work she could have done. Amends project is the answer to non-violent crimes.

    My own experience with ethics was very beautiful. I had a problem with alcohol. Even through my time with Scientology it was a problem. Please accept my apologies those of you that rode with me to the event in Los Angeles in the 70’s. And those that had to put up with me on the Bolivar.

    My family was going back home and I had been off of alcohol for 6 months on my own determinism. I got scared and decide to go to Flag to resolve this problem it was 1986. I got there and someone evaluated that I was not enough of an experienced Scientologist and were going to send me home. As I was routing off I heard a supervisor in the back yell “Oh how nice this poor fellow comes to the mecca of technology and we can’t help him.”

    I was instantly thrown in front of a ethics officer (a womwn) and was grilled. I mean really grilled. She kept asking things like do you know what a victim is and other question. Finally I threw up my hands and yelled “I AM SO FUCKING CONFUSED”.

    Then I smiled and said “I know how to get out of confusion” using the learning cycle.


    I took a Personal Integrity course and had some overts pulled and never drank a drop of alcohol again, 26 years.

    A miracle in a week.

  225. I believe his misogyny is very real and is also part of the bigger picture. He attacks the second dynamic every way he can. Of course he seems to be attacking the first, third, fourth, and seventh dynamics with equal abandon. In any event, the “suppress-every-staff-member-at-all-costs” policies enforced by Miscavige, can be traced to underlie every downturn in my SO career, and I have come to realize were a major factor is driving me out of the SO. The first such attack came in the form of splitting me up from my then wife into different orgs with no real hope of us ever being in the same location every again. This was directly ordered by Miscavige. This resulted in a divorce as the only logical escape from this presented unsolvable problem with a demand for solution. Next I was punished severely for alleged out-2D – with my own wife – that wasn’t out 2D at all. This entirely bogus attack on my 2D was directly engineered by one of Miscavige’s RTC Reps, and I must assume he was behind this as well. Part of this punishment was another attempt to split me up from my new wife by way of moving me to a different location. This time I took drastic action in response to this suppression, which reverted my location and ended my attack. However, due to our having been accused of out-2D, which wasn’t, within our own 2D, my wife and I were never happy again, and were utterly confused as to what constituted ethical 2D activities as opposed to unethical 2D activities. Not only was masturbation elevated into a major crime, but oral sex was labelled as a “perversion”. Our sex life and indeed, what had been a happy relationship died because of all this. Another side effect of this was total invalidation of my case and gains in Scientology. In this miserable state, all it took was tightening the screws a little more in the form of new 1D and 3D suppression, and that was the end of me. I never saw so clearly before how Miscavige’s attacks on the 2D destroyed me as an SO member and even as a preclear. Screw you, Miscavige, SP and pervert that you are. I have escaped our suppression and have rebuilt my life despite you, so you lose again.

  226. Jack and others re: Limbaugh —

    My problem with Limbaugh isn’t necessarily what he says but HOW he says it. Listen to him sometime without hooking onto the words. Just the “vibe” — it’s intense, frantic, aggressive …

    Then take Alex Jones – not quite but almost a polar opposite politics wise (who I like LESS than Limbaugh) — same cadence, same aggression, same intensity.

    Step back after hearing Limbaugh/Jones and any other radio talk host including sports guys and see if you don’t feel like ripping out the throat of the next “gay/straight/black/white/republican/democrat/illuminati that comes close to you.

    Limbaugh and Jones don’t inform — NOT REALLY. They just keep our own emotions stirred up again and again.

    Same thing with sports radio — the TRULY informed don’t listen to them as they as just more noise.

    There is so much noise IN the world — sometimes grabbing a friend and doing TR 0 — or just meditating is really the INFORMED thing to do.

    Just my 2¢


  227. morelivesthanacat

    Thanks Jack. Me too. Listener and fan for many years–starting back when I was at Int on the decks.
    It’s a good analogy too.
    If how we perceived Mike and Marty (and Debbie, etc.) was just through the sound bites of OSA’s sites and mags, you’d pretty much understand how Limbaugh’s been painted with sound bites and out-of-context pull quotes by the mainstream media for 20 years non-stop (and so perceived to be by those who never actually listened to a whole show or two as everything he is not only NOT but everything he is AGAINST). You gotta ask yourself, “if he’s been being attacked for 20 years non-stop (DAILY) and is still there and still popular, then maybe what I’ve been being told about him is not true?…”
    You see, it’s the same little game of truth and lies.
    Believe me, there are probably quite a few Rush fans here. And we’re not knuckle-dragging Right Wing Neanderthals either.
    In the case of Rush, you actually have to listen to his show for a week or so to catch up and get it. It only took me a few days back then when I first stumbled on him.
    In the case of those stuck in the Church and afraid to look, you’re going to actually have to stop listening to the party line and pull-quotes and take the time to find and and read the information that is available. That might take a little longer than a few days.
    And that little exercise could sort out both religion and politics!
    Ok, ’nuff said.

  228. It would be good if we could also contribute to Marty’s efforts with some donations as well. He has provided us with this wonderful platform where so much happens, and where we get to blow so much charge and find out “what really happened”. His work to help Debbie and his work on his book are efforts that I, for one, want to support.

  229. He’s got a statue?!!! Where?
    Interesting corroboration of Marty and Mike’s insightful comments Sam.
    I’m pretty dumbfounded the more I hear and learn about him on this blog . These revelations would have been more than enough to have pricked my ears had I known earlier.
    It’s a pretty major outpoint and a good indicator of his actual tone level (as opposed to the slick social veneer he’s cultivated over the years and which now more and more makes me want to reach for the bucket).

  230. Joy, interesting that you addressed your comment to just three of us. Three of us who don’t want the state government to pay for our “reproductive rights” and gag at the thought of murdering unborn babies.

    By the way, “reproductive rights” means a woman has the right to get pregnant or not get pregnant. How has that come to mean she’s got a God given “right” to kill that unborn baby? Rhetorical, no need to answer.

    ps. We are not all one. No, we’re not.

  231. Jack, Rush calls a spade a spade and I enjoy him.

  232. Joy, that documentary you recommend, isn’t that by the same guy who directed Ace Ventura? Is he a philosopher now? thanks but I think I will take my lifes lessons from LRH.

  233. Interesting example where I would say LRH was not right on the money all the time — and here again I’d say throw out the bath water but not the baby.

    It sounds like the source of the quote above can be found from the taped lecture(s) available for a mere $350 at:



    Shared as a personal anecdote, the quote above is alright, especially if the following material gives clarification on how the conclusion was wrong. Taken as infallible scripture, it is not good, IMHO.

  234. Ronnie Bell

    Boy, have you got Miscavige’s number. No wonder he covertly had you declared. You’re one of his worst nightmares.

    Can’t wait to see your Declaration of Independence!

  235. Question: In comparison, has DM ever apologized to anyone, anywhere, about anything?

    For those who were hit or humiliated by DM, was there ever even a short one-on-one where he said anything like, “Sorry about that; I got carried away.” Or a follow up like, “I was ticked off, but don’t ever doubt that I care about you and want to help you reach your full potential”?

    DM seems to be proving to be horrid by any and all standards, so there is no reason or need to taint others with comparison to DM, a man (term used loosely) all in his own league. But if someone were to ask me for a comparative figure, it sure would not be Rush that comes to mind. It would be tyrants like Napoleon, Hitler, and Stalin.

  236. martyrathbun09

    A wise man once said: the bank follows the line of attack.

  237. Joy Graysen

    Thank you Ulf. Very very interesting!

  238. Joy Graysen

    I think you may need to step a few feet further back…

  239. threefeetback

    Rush is the litmus test for those who do not bother to LOOK for themselves and cannot tolerate individualism. The Marxists and sheeple show there true colors.

  240. Well I will agree he has struggled with his weight at times…

  241. martyrathbun09

    …”the progressives that are out to destroy America as we know it.” It all depends on how you define “progressive” and “we.”

  242. Joy Graysen

    Yeah, we all just want to murder babies… How did you know?

  243. martyrathbun09

    Who and what is Miscavige the litmus test for?

  244. Cowboy Poet

    “Gender Equality”
    I believe I know what you mean, Marty, but that term “gender equality” is so easily taken to places wherein I think it does no good. One of its directions can be to make woman into the travesty that man is and emasculates what little use men are.
    In general I think women are vastly superior to men in important ways. Their inherent qualities are anyway. Trustworthy, willing to commit loyalties, hard-working, superior “partner/marriage” characteristics for sure….as a general rule.
    One of my most favorite passages on the value of the gender is in Science of Survival.

    All that being said, I have long thought it will be a woman who puts the final nail in DM’s coffin.
    Don’t ever get a woman permanently pissed off at you which he has done gloriously.

    (Why do you think I ride geldings for the most part? Who wants to deal with 1000 pound of PMS???? LOL!)

  245. Not a Rush fan. At all. However, I listen to him sometimes to keep myself honest. I hope I never stop listening to someone just because I disagree with them or have a different POV. That path leads to stupid.


  246. Joy Graysen


  247. Ronnie Bell

    Who and what is Miscavige the litmus test for?

    Roboticism and an unblinking devotion to a cult of personality.

  248. Ronnie Bell

    Mega dittos…

  249. FOTF2012

    Yes. Truth is not usually a monopoly. It simply is truth.

    L. Ron Hubbard found what he found using pretty much the same tools as philosophers through the ages. He had a different focus on some things and applied his understandings in his own particular way, but basically it was all just laying there for anyone to figure out. Some got close, some were running parallel courses for a time, and some were totally off in a different direction.

    Basically, those who use the right tools correctly, and are focused on truth, will inevitably come to similar conclusions.

    You will find that quite a few of those who post here are not “exclusionist” in their thinking. That accounts in a large part for why we are here, and not still under the shadow of the Church of David Miscavige’s Scientology.

    Eric S

  250. threefeetback

    MF, Just LOOK at Rush’s ‘Undeniable Truths about Life.’

  251. Boy that conjured up some bad images…
    Don’t think of a pink elephant… 🙂

  252. threefeetback

    Going to rewrite his ‘Undeniable Truths’?

  253. 🙂 I stand behind that statment! 🙂

  254. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

    It puts a self appointed elite in control and taking the responsibility for the people. It’s goal is to push Knowledge down in the people there by increasing their control and responsibility.

    This is basically only a step up from the dictator or king which is now in place in the COS with DM. It is basically group think.

    We/Me = Those that want to increase personal responsibility.
    Self Determinism
    Pan Determinism.

  255. threefeetback

    rest my case about personal attacks

  256. Good point FOTF2012.

    Can you imagine the dismay of a woman who wanted to have children , giving up on that idea to “save the planet” and then realizing that it was all for nothing? Scientologists have done many great things, but dm has turned it into a cult. I see no need for Scientologists to not have children whether they are on staff or not.
    The pricing of the Bridge is also a huge overt and makes it really hard for the average man to even get auditing on top of raising a family. It looks like miscarriage has been destroying Scientology from many angles for a very long time.

  257. Ruby – I was about to say the same thing. Here’s some viewpoint, and some humor:


    Personally, I find that love and consideration rule. If she doesn’t love you, you’re in the wrong place. If you scorn her, you are in the wrong universe. It is very important to remember that. Also, part of a woman’s job is to move furniture around. It’s important to remember that, too. If she starts cutting the furniture up, she’s trying to tell you something.


    Women’s Rules for Men
    1.The female always makes The Rules.
    2.The Rules are subject to change without prior notification.
    3.No male can possibly know all The Rules.
    4.If the female suspects the male knows all The Rules, she must immediately change some or all of The Rules.
    5.The female is never wrong.
    6.If the female is wrong, it is due to a misunderstanding which was the direct result of something the male did or said wrong.
    … [more on link]

  258. morelivesthanacat

    FOT: Question: In comparison, has DM ever apologized to anyone, anywhere, about anything?
    In my 20+ years, never. In fact, never (observed by me) on any flow ever.
    I’m sure tons of others would confirm it.

  259. Rush Limbaugh is an extremist. Name ONE thing about Obama he has openly praised. He can’t because he is paid to be dug in solid on the Right.

    I am sooo tired of extremists in politics, religion, in life. I have found most extremists I’ve encountered to be somewhat beleaguered individuals who’ve traded away their ability to observe and appreciate nuance for the comfort of a solid viewpoint that “explains” everything.

    We here certainly have in common our disagreement with the extremist DM running Scientology into the ground for the past couple of decades. DM and his “ditto heads”.

    Rush Limbaugh is not part of the solution to a better, more tolerant world.

  260. wow!! This is exciting!! Can’t wait to see your declaration!!

  261. I hear you brother!!
    I believe that it takes a very demented person to enforce such bizarre control over the second dynamic activities of others. I don’t think dm can stand others being happy and wants to torment them in every way possible. Why we, in any way let this miserable prick , dictate to us what was right or wrong is kind of embarrasing. Although , he did this covertly for the most part , hididng behind other terminals to do his dirty work. A true 1.1. scumbag.

  262. threefeetback

    MLTACat, Coginting on what Rush is about and cogniting on Scn are similar; for some it is instantanious, for most weeks (Rush says about 6 weeks) and some will never really get either one. Similar for personal attacks based on individual idiosyncrasies, none of which a narcissist would ever admit to.

  263. They both work for the same team.

  264. threefeetback

    The Marxists have attempted to ‘control the language’ by preverting definitions. Right out of Saul Alinsky’s ‘Rules for Radicals’.

  265. martyrathbun09


  266. martyrathbun09

    I am sooo tired of extremists in politics, religion, in life. I have found most extremists I’ve encountered to be somewhat beleaguered individuals who’ve traded away their ability to observe and appreciate nuance for the comfort of a solid viewpoint that “explains” everything.

  267. martyrathbun09

    “Gender equality”. I don’t know what you are trying to say, but I’ll say it again:
    When I joined the Sea Org in January 1978 one thing that impressed me about Ron Hubbard’s international organization was that it was way, way ahead of the times in terms of gender equality. Some of the most powerful figures in Scientology – all appointed by L Ron Hubbard himself – were women.

  268. threefeetback

    Limbaugh needs a light touch of Scn to cure his intense ‘vibe’.

  269. martyrathbun09

    Damn, some COMMON GROUND! Why don’t we drop the Rush thread on this positive note.

  270. threefeetback

    JA, +1

  271. Ditto. 🙂

    For the record, I am not sure if the references above regarding dominant Republican political figures were supposed to be a criticism of Mormons, but I have many friends who are, and I have come to respect them very much. That doesn’t mean I agree with everything, but I feel a kindship in terms of outlook on civilization, observation of degradation of culture, effort to rekindle philosophical and political idealism expressed in Englightenment-based social vision. Through my work and activities I interact a great deal with individual Mormons and sometimes with LDS organizations. I have only come to conclude that there has been much good done in recent decades by Mormons and their organizations. From what I see, women are highly respected and active in the community, and very warm – all very much in character with LRH statements on women previously cited on this blog. I am sure there are your small percent of bad apples, but on the whole these are good people.

  272. John Danilovich, too – Jeannie’s brother.

  273. I beginning to think he’s under the delusion, that while he may hate women, he thinks can control them – so nothing infuriates him more when that delusion is shattered by someone like Cook. Men, he is threatened by men. If he can’t completely break them, make them quivering piles of jelly, they won’t be around for long. Men who show any sign of having balls terrify Miscavige. He has made the mistake of thinking since women don’t have the actual anatomical equipment, they lack the ability – he is very mistaken. (The men under his thumb should prove the anatomy has zip to do with courage or confront.)

  274. Windhorse, that was really perfectly stated. The goal seems to be an attempt to put more attention on HOW something is being said than allowing people to honestly and calmly look at WHAT is being said.

    And I’m not even dragging the political positions into this — I think conservatives have some valid points, and I think liberals do as well. People do need to take personal responsibility. But some people need a hand. There are solutions to these problems, but the path only gets murkier when extremist members of both groups leave out vital pieces of data or use “shock and awe” (either overly or covertly) in an attempt to cloud a calm, thorough look at all sides of the arguments.

    And isn’t this right in line with much of the problem that we have with Miscavige:

    — those rolling thunder events which attempt to impress us with computer graphics, fake photo-op “4D activities”, and loud booming explosions while simultaneously covering up the fact that the real, meaningful stats have crashed?

    — those big glitzy “ideal orgs” which try to give an impression of growth and success when in reality (and hidden from view) the buildings sit idle and Scientologists are insolvent and bankrupt as a result?

    — those covert, over-the-top ad hominem attacks against Marty, Mike, Amy, Debbie and others … when in fact their real “crime” was applying the very first precept in the Code of a Scientologist: “1. To keep Scientologists, the public and the press accurately informed concerning Scientology …”?

    It indeed seems that the Middle Path is the only way out of this morass.

  275. Joy Graysen

    And I rest mine;)

  276. Joy Graysen

    +1,000,000…if that’s not too extreme..LOL!

  277. Joy Graysen

    Yes!!! +1,000!!!!

  278. Random Stranger

    13) His and his motorcycles.

  279. Joy Graysen


  280. Random Stranger

    14) Likes to handle rods.

  281. FOTF

    Hmmm…. Scientology has no “scriptures”. What L. Ron Hubbard wrote is not a Bible, or “Holy Book” in any sense of the imagination.

    What L. Ron Hubbard wrote is a Philosophy, Technologies, etc, NOT RELIGIOUS DOGMA!

    If One uses David Miscavige’s religious terms you are forwarding his case for unlimited religious protection.

    Scientology has no Scriptures…It is a TOTALLY BOGUS assertion by a sociopath, that he is pushing in order to protect his own sorry ass. That is all.

    Ron never wrote a “scripture” in his life and would likely be totally dismayed that it would even be considered that he had.

    Eric S

  282. Joy Graysen

    YES! Margaret, YES!!!

  283. Well, she isn’t a fan of mine either. Or Ivan, or Pierre, or for that matter, it would seem, any body that was an O.L. in the Sea Org and suddenly surfaces or might surface , out here with a voice. It seems we have dissapointed in our performances. Not only the Church, but her as well.

  284. HereNow

    Of David Miscavige…”He attacks the second dynamic every way he can. Of course he seems to be attacking the first, third, fourth, and seventh dynamics with equal abandon.”

    In support of this statement, I offer this…
    From the definition of Self-determinism, in the Technical Dictionary.

    Self-detrminism, 9. a condition of determining the actions of self. It is a first (self) dynamic action and leaves the remaining seven undetermined or, in actuality, in opposition to self. Thus if one wants to take on the rest of life in a free-for-all fight, one could be entirely insistent upon total self-determinism. One is Self-determined, then, in any situation in which he is fighting. He is Pan-determined in any situation which he is controlling. (FOT, p. 50)

    And thus the intentions and activities of the participants in this battle are identified by their respective spheres of operation.

    Or to put into common vernacular…
    “By their actions, ye shall know them.”

    Eric S

  285. “And I’m not even dragging the political positions into this — I think conservatives have some valid points, and I think liberals do as well …. It indeed seems that the Middle Path is the only way out of this morass …”

    Indeed …. setting up the game (of civilization ?) as consisting of only a false dichotomy of diametrically-opposed forces (which are often complete polar opposites), contesting one against another, will possibly not lead to an outcome that most would truly prefer …..

    Generally, with respect to acquisition of data (via the MSM), I prefer to read …. rather than listen or watch … seems to allow for a little more interaction or participation …. and decidedly less possibility of (emotional) manipulation ….

  286. “We are all one” ???


    That statement is the opposite of the teachings of LRH.

  287. Ha Ha….right on Ronnie

  288. Dittos, Marty!

  289. JM, I like your viewpoint and agree with it. I often listen to those on the left for the same reason – to keep myself honest.

  290. “The Marxists have attempted to ‘control the language’ by preverting definitions. Right out of Saul Alinsky’s ‘Rules for Radicals’.”

    Well, yeah … and it’s not like anyone on the Right have ever done (or does) anything similar …. (roll eyes)

    Most of what passes for “conservatism” in today’s world (in the US anyways) is actually neo-conservatism (itself a perversion of the “Old Right” version of conservatism) ….. and most folks who self-identify as “conservative” don’t understand the difference ….. and may not even be aware that they are hearing neo-con ideology (Rush, Levin, Hannity and many others are all purveyors of it)

    Old Right conservatism has it’s root’s in classical liberalism (which is different than modern social liberalism), and is very closely related to libertarianism ….

    A good BBC documentary about the genus of neo-conservatism (and the parallel rise of Al-Qaeda), which is available on YouTube and Google Video, is:

    The Power Of Nightmares: The Rise Of The Politics Of Fear

    Fascinating stuff.

  291. martyrathbun09

    Read a fascinating analysis that demonstrated that Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater could not even get into a Republican Primary these days as their views today would be considered far too Leftist. I am certain the same would apply to Richard Nixon.

  292. As often happens here, the blog has moved on while I was busy doing other things, but I have 2 cents to add to this subject and I hope a few people get to read it.

    Personal responsibility is important, absolutely, but it’s not enough. There are all those other dynamics too, and I believe the further up the food chain, the more money, power, people and other resources at one’s disposal, the greater the need to look beyond one’s own situation and do something about the big picture. On the other hand, many of these “captains of industry” would prefer the unfettered right to exploit labor and natural resources without limits and regardless of the consequences beyond their own circle and their own lifespan. To a large extent they have co-opted the conservative movement, and the issue of personal responsibility in particular, in order to narrow the discussion for their own agenda.

    David Miscavige is not one of a kind. Because of religious status he has unique leverage over his juniors and anonymity from the law, but what keeps many CEOs from behaving like Davy is exactly those cultural and legal changes brought to us by the Progressive Movement over the last hundred years or so.

    Think back to the time before that great Progressive Teddy Roosevelt. Child labor was rampant, women were second-class citizens, minimum wage, a 40-hour week and workplace safety regulations were unheard of. Does this remind anyone of the Int Base under David Miscavige?

    So yes, I’ll take personal responsibility but I also thank my lucky stars for the Progressives that came before me. And that work, by the way, is not done until everybody has a fair shot at a decent life.

  293. Thanks, Publius. Sounds like we’d enjoy our conversation. 🙂 And we both might learn something, too.

  294. I’ll buy and keep my mouth shut. Cuz I know I’ll learn something. 🙂

  295. Aeolus,
    SUCH a wonderful, insightful, intellegent comment. Thank you for your wise sense.
    Thank you for taking the time to add your sanity here.
    Much admiration!

  296. And I might also point out that the following Democrats could never get into a Democrat primary today:

    John F. Kennedy
    Henry (Scoop) Jackson
    Harry S. Truman
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    . . . and many more.

    BOTH parties have become hyper-polarized over the past 45 years.

    Today’s Democratic Party bears NO resemblance to the Democratic party of, say, 1960. I know – I was a member of that Party once.

    As Ronald Reagan said, “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, it left me”. (may not be exact quote but it’s close).

    If we are going to reference politics here, please let’s be even-handed, as I’m betting the Indys are split roughly along the same lines as the general population, as between liberals, conservatives, and “independents”.

  297. +1!

  298. martyrathbun09

    I would guess you are right.

  299. Wood Dragon

    I thought this quote from another freedom fighter was apt.

    “If by strength is meant moral power, then woman is immeasurably man’s superior.”

    Mahatma Gandhi

  300. FOTF2012, I like how you think. thanks!

  301. What a beautiful way to wrap up this thread. Thank you!

  302. one of five

    “…. I am certain the same would apply to Richard Nixon.”

    …. and Dwight D. Eisenhower, Robert Taft, etc. ………

    It’s a very good example of how the Right “redefines” things as well as the Left ….. although ….

    …… perhaps the most ironic thing about the redefinition of “conservatism” (into neo-conservatism) might be that the impetus for it came, at least initially, largely from those who were all formerly of the Left – (supposedly) former Socialists, Trotskyites, Shachtmanites ….

    I suspect that many (in the US), were they to know the historical provenance and foundations for the ideology that they currently espouse would be rather surprised by what lurks back there in the shadows of times gone by ….

  303. LOVE the rules!! 🙂
    And …they are correct, by the way!

  304. martyrathbun09

    A lot of it is explained in GPM tech.

  305. one of five

    “And I might also point out that the following Democrats could never get into a Democrat primary today”

    True dat ….

    “BOTH parties have become hyper-polarized over the past 45 years.”

    Yes …. but while that is in some respects true, it seems to me that in many ways, they have also become more alike ….

    If one looks at either of the two parties (or political extremes) ….. for the most part, it’s essentially advocates of the Welfare/Warfare State …. the difference is largely one of degree, and which aspect (welfare or warfare) is emphasized ….

    And despite any lip service that is paid to ideals that either claims to espouse, it’s largely been a triumph of the ever-encroaching State over the rights and freedoms of the individual.

    “If we are going to reference politics here, please let’s be even-handed, as I’m betting the Indys are split roughly along the same lines as the general population, as between liberals, conservatives, and “independents”.”

    As was alluded to earlier by Margaret, any side (or faction) has their merits …… as well as their faults.

    I willing to look, to observe ….. and quite happy comment on any of it … although I’ll tend to be more inclined to do so with respect to the Right.

    Probably because I’m inclined to clean my own house …. before I try to clean my neighbors …..

  306. Thanks WindWalker — makes sense and well said.

  307. I sure agree with tonydephillips — the Bridge pricing to me also seems to be an overt.

    The justification for the overt is “hey, how can you put a price on eternity or total freedom?”

    Exactly — it can’t be priced. And that’s why I think LRH wanted to keep it free, or as free as possible.

  308. I guess I lapsed into corporate CoS lingo in which Ron’s works are referred to as scriptures (often in legal documents for example, where CoS attempts to shield itself via First Amendment religion rights). I myself had never considered them scriptures.

    Thanks for pointing that out!

  309. Thanks guys.

    It’s coming soon. Stay tuned.

    Was working on it & stopped to take a break & re-read this post again last night with the newer comments and something just snapped. It just infuriated me as personally, it TOTALLY indicates.


    Thanks for letting me rant. I do feel muuuuch better today. 🙂 Thanks Marty and MIke….just makes sense to me.

    It was hanging right in front of my face & needed to be communicated and as-is’d in order to get back into focus and onto my Declaration of Independence from this insanity…..Whooooot! .


  310. Wow, thanks!

  311. Hi, dankoon. Thank you for sharing this. Where can I find these letters? Could you give directions to a published work or a Web link?
    Looking forward.

  312. “…by this action they are destroying not only women, but the men and the children as well…”
    Obviously, destroy women. You get them all that way! Then when all are dead he can be safe.

  313. Book? I knew it was coming. I am so offing excited!!!!!!!

    Bed Man OKc

  314. Dolphin Play

    Astute and poignant analysis. Excellent profiling of the serial soul-killer Miscavige who has weaseled his way into high places in order to do harm. Brilliant article.

  315. Jenny DeVocht was the THE ONE who kicked me out

  316. In my mind – i tkink sort of remember.
    I got told I could have no more babbys.

    I lost my soul.
    Love U Guys.
    & Thanks Mossy

  317. Just why are you entitled to free contraceptions and abortions? I don’t care if you buy your own pills but why should I buy them for you especially if I object to the consequenses of your dangerous behavior? Your actions demean the very dymanic you wish to exploit for your purient pleasure.

  318. Why does he have somany women around him?
    These are not “women” these are girls, they are there to be window dressing. It is just another way to demean women they mean nothing. These are not the Ass kicking women that can run an Org. these are what he considers his cheerleaders. Real women run things and get things done they are not there to get your coffee or polish your……

  319. I can only take Rush in small doses, but that can be said for all of the left bank wingnuts as well.

  320. When Barry Goldwater was in his hay-day he was considered too leftist!

  321. Michael Fairman

    To all you Rush apologists regarding his latest idiotic verbal slime. Get educated, with a few laughs thrown in that may tickle your brains awake.


  322. What a DISGUSTING, ad hominem comment. How DARE you assume to know what MY behaviors or actions are. Or that they are “PURIENT”.You obviously have absolutely NO idea what this issue is actually about and are a bully. Grow a real pair and educate yourself on what this issue REALLY is instead of spewing Rush Limbaugh hate filled, completely twisted and altered propoganda. Didn’t you learn your lesson with David Miscavige??

  323. And you DEFINITELY have NO idea who I am. Shame on you.

  324. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    The church frowns upon the depiction of genitals? May I point out the elephant in the room?

    Scientology Pals Kicked In $50,000 Toward U.N.’s Big Elephant Statue February 7, 1999, Julie Lipper, New York Observer

    It would appear that both statues appear to stress realism in their depiction.

  325. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    I guess she was just another of those awful semicolons to be gotten rid of. (Without a high school education, I’m surprised that he knows what a semicolon is.)

  326. Source(s) please. With quotes, and from the time period in question. I’m willing to listen and learn. But I need factual and relevant data.

  327. Michael Fairman

    Ok, David, I have to step in here and come to Joy’s defense although she needs no defending.

    Regards the abortion issue, do you really think that any rational woman, no matter where she is on the political spectrum, wants to abort a child? Roe v Wade, if you read it, upholds the Fourteen amendment, Section 1, the “equal protection” clause of the Constitution, The decision under Roe v Wade gives a woman the right to choose to have an abortion under certain specific circumstances, without the interference of the state. In this instance a Texas law which forbade abortion of any kind. was overturned. A law which illustrated government intrusion of the worst kind. Would you have a woman who has been raped, who has forcibly been impregnated by a relative, whose life was in danger, come to full term to have the baby? Or do you see it in totally religious terms as being “God’s Will”, or as someone else has put it, – “making lemonade out of lemons”? Think about it Try, if are capable, to put yourself in a woman’s position, and her family facing those circumstances.

    David, do you have the slightest notion of what the issue of contraception is about? It goes far beyond preventing pregnancies. There are a multitude of health issues involved that have nothing to do with sex. If you took the time to explore what those health issues are, you wouldn’t have run off at the mouth, and accused Joy of exploiting the dynamic for her “prurient (that’s the actual spelling of the word you tossed around) pleasure”. I reiterate that you know nothing about Joy. You certainly know nothing about her health issues. But your comment speaks volumes about you.

    With relation to sexual activity, many women in successful relationships, married or not, cannot afford to have a child, or more children, and use contraception for family planning. For many it is a great yearly expense and is covered as part of health care, Just as a yearly physical check up, or medications people have to take. Health care covers woman who go on pregnancy leave from their jobs. Would you stop that as well? Ask working woman what they think about that.

    Your remark echoes the idiocy and stupidity of Limbaugh and a few others here, who have have no concept of the scope of this contraception issue.

    It may be that you are here on this blog because you “looked” and did not just “listen” as pertains to the CofS. . If that is so, I suggest you do the same with any other issue before you run off at the mouth.

  328. Michael Fairman

    An addition to my post above

    Regarding the witless remarks made about the documentary “I Am”
    Sounds like inspection before the fact, something the Right Wing ideologues constantly do. That is the way of stupidity.

  329. joygraysen – you didn’t deserve that and it seems that a particular mindset persists. Personally, I’m still trying to decompress from over 30 years in the “church” and have only recently started to recognize and come to terms with the condescending smugness, acceptance of disrespectful/abusive behavior, and know-best attitude I assumed as a typical corporate Scientologist. The healing process is a slow one and I still have a long way to go. I am absolutely determined not to give into reasons to hate but will continue speaking out against hate speech as you have. FWI, my personal journey now includes meditation, which is helping me to see that TRUE love and compassion (not the “theetie-weetie” kind) is the only route out. Love, Don

  330. I meant FWW 🙂

  331. So you believe that I should pay for contraceptives for some woman I don’t know. the next step is I should pay for her children or I should pay for any of her elective health care issues? Perhaps I should pay for her rent? I’m glad to see you think I have enough to spread it around to every ninny on the planet! Next you will be saying I should pay to put gas in your car.

  332. Man, this discussion just doesn’t want to die, does it? Since it”s still going on, here’s a fact that hasn’t been highlighted enough. It is not, and never was, the case that your tax dollars would be used to supply contraceptives to this young law student. The issue is whether employer-provided health insurance will cover them, as a medical and cost-reduction measure. Many insurance companies are actually in favor of this, since the cost of contraception is minimal compared to the cost of a difficult pregnancy. For the Obama administration, looking for ways to reduce our skyrocketing health care costs, it was an appropriate target.

    Here’s another fact. Rush Limbaugh has a long history of carefully selecting and sometimes twisting his facts to support his vitriolic diatribes, which serve the purpose of fomenting hatred against various persons and groups. It’s a sad commentary how often in history a demagogue has found the way to popularity by urging us to hate. However, asking this young woman to post videos of her sexual activity so that Limbaugh can get his “money’s worth” was a new low even for him.

    What I found interesting is that while the Republican candidates were quick to disavow Rush’s specific choice of words, not one of them called him to task for his obvious alteration of the truth.

  333. +1!! Well said.

  334. Joy Graysen

    Yay! YAY!!! YAAAAAAY!!! Sanity, reason, truth… I think I might swoooooooon!!! THANK you!!!

  335. Joy Graysen

    This response was to Aeolus!!! Gorgeous comment!!

  336. Your comment is actually an example of argumenum ad hominem, before you call on the “ad hominem” god to win your argument make sure you are actually using the term correctly, my comments may have been a bit abusive but they were not argumentum ad hominem. If you want to use latin to make your self seem more educated use it correctly. On this issue the hate goes both ways. this is just NOW propaganda.

  337. Even more than the tax dollars this argument goes to the first amendment. do we order a religion that has fought and believed that abortion and contraception is morally wrong should have to pay for the same? This part of the argument is actually more important thatn the tax dollars since it gives the goverment the right to legislate what you believe. If you believe in freedom of religion fight this legislation.

    It would seem that a few have gone after the proffered legislation like a bass after a jig. Don’t be so quick to swallow it you will lose more than you gain.

  338. martyrathbun09

    You all ought to chill a moment and take a step back. This internecine warfare is precisely what the profiteers who control the government as their enforcement arm wish to create among the American populace. Let’s fight to the grave over contraceptives while the Insurance Companies (absolutely unregulated by decree of the Senate), Drug Companies (deemed above the capitalist, free enterprise, free market system by the US government in early 2000s to profiteer on taxpayers shamelessly), and their financiers (given immunity to continue to run an unregulated profiteering bubble economy con game after getting off scot free from the largest financial fraud in the history of the planet) laugh all the way to their off-shore, non-taxable, tax havens? Please.

  339. martyrathbun09

    You all ought to chill a moment and take a step back. This internecine warfare is precisely what the profiteers who control the government as their enforcement arm wish to create among the American populace. Let’s fight to the grave over contraceptives while the Insurance Companies (absolutely unregulated by decree of the Senate), Drug Companies (deemed above the capitalist, free enterprise, free market system by the US government in early 2000s to profiteer on taxpayers shamelessly), and their financiers (given immunity to continue to run an unregulated profiteering bubble economy con game after getting off scot free from the largest financial fraud in the history of the planet) laugh all the way to their off-shore, non-taxable, tax havens? Please.

  340. martyrathbun09

    You all ought to chill a moment and take a step back. This internecine warfare is precisely what the profiteers who control the government as their enforcement arm wish to create among the American populace. Let’s fight to the grave over contraceptives while the Insurance Companies (absolutely unregulated by decree of the Senate), Drug Companies (deemed above the capitalist, free enterprise, free market system by the US government in early 2000s to profiteer on taxpayers shamelessly), and their financiers (given immunity to continue to run an unregulated profiteering bubble economy con game after getting off scot free from the largest financial fraud in the history of the planet) laugh all the way to their off-shore, non-taxable, tax havens? Please. Again.

  341. Joy Graysen

    Thank you, Latin Master. Quite simply, no matter how well you use your talents for ancient language, it does not cover up your acerbic nature or your nasty “abusive” comments. Though you may be educated in the art of Latin labels you make it very clear that you are not educated in matters of the heart or common decency or manners. How ironic that this post is about misogyny and you were abusive only to the woman in this thread…
    Next time you chose to come at someone so condescendingly on this blog, why don’t you do it using your whole name instead of bullying from under the “radar”. It will show that you not only have the courage to stand behind what you tout but that you aren’t afraid to step into the light and stand up against the real bully we are discussing here…Prick On A Box

  342. Joy Graysen

    I agree 1000% Marty. Thanks forthe reality check!!

  343. martyrathbun09

    Again. You all ought to chill a moment and take a step back. This internecine warfare is precisely what the profiteers who control the government as their enforcement arm wish to create among the American populace. Let’s fight to the grave over contraceptives while the Insurance Companies (absolutely unregulated by decree of the Senate), Drug Companies (deemed above the capitalist, free enterprise, free market system by the US government in early 2000s to profiteer on taxpayers shamelessly), and their financiers (given immunity to continue to run an unregulated profiteering bubble economy con game after getting off scot free from the largest financial fraud in the history of the planet) laugh all the way to their off-shore, non-taxable, tax havens? Please. Again

  344. Joy Graysen

    Ok, I’m done. Exhale…;)

  345. I was there.

  346. “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue” Barry Goldwater, 1964 Republican convention

  347. So…, let me make sure I’m getting this straight. Goldwater made a statement supporting all efforts towards liberty and justice and that was considered leftist? So you decided to move even further to the right? I’m sure that seems right in your head, somehow. But it’s a mystery to me.

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