Gentleman, Warrior, Friend…

Michael Laws


Giving birth and nourishing,

having without possessing,

acting with no expectations,

leading and not trying to control:

this is the Supreme Virtue.

– Tao Te Ching

Oh, yeah, Fellow Outlaw…

223 responses to “Gentleman, Warrior, Friend…

  1. Thank you Big Bear for all that you do and expecting nothing in return! You are one amazing being and I am honored to have you as a dear friend! Love Mosey

  2. I almost thought this was a memorial.
    Can we have more details as to why this honor is bestowed?

  3. Thank you, Marty, for paying tribute to this man. Your messages says it beautifully.

    Michael is so unassuming and so without ego that most don’t know of his many good deeds. It isn’t sloppy public relations, I think it would get in his way if he received the attention and recognition he has earned. He has experienced the ups and downs of life, the conflicts and betrayals, and yet he is a total example of all that is good in a man.

    Love you, Michael.

  4. Hello Friends. It’s been a while.

    Thanks, Michael, and thanks to all of those who fight oppression wherever it occurs.


  5. Mick Hamblen


  6. I’m with you (and Marty) Mosey. This is the perfect summation of Michael. Proud and happy to have him as a friend.

  7. martyrathbun09

    Hey James.

  8. martyrathbun09

    He’s alive and kicking quite competently.

  9. Quite an impressive portrait. 🙂 It looks like medieval art almost. Wise choice.

  10. That photo looks like a painting by Rembrandt!

  11. One of the biggest hearts I know.

  12. martyrathbun09

    By the nature of our co-activities I really cannot much. I just want the independent world to know that I think this guy is one stand-up fellow.

  13. Michael Fairman

    Mike, you’re a big guy among some pretty big guys. Thanks for being there.
    (note: “guy” is guy talk for both men and women)

  14. Michael,

    You are a sweetheart! We always enjoy spending time with you. We hope you make it out to west Texas. ml, Laura and Mike

  15. Graham Berry

    It’s my privilege to call Michael a friend.

  16. I took the meaning to acknowledge the man as a patron of the Independent Movement.

    pa·tron (ptrn)
    One that supports, protects, or champions someone or something, such as an institution, event, or cause; a sponsor or benefactor: a patron of the arts.

    a person, esp a man, who sponsors or aids artists, charities, etc.; protector or benefactor

    [via Old French from Latin patrōnus protector, from pater father]

  17. Hear hear! For a man who expects few words, he gets few from me. He does get copious quantities of admiration, respect and gratitude from me. Maybe I could and should provide him more smoked boudin more often as a gesture of the above.

  18. Folks,
    I’m am really likin’ the flavor of this blog–it’s like one big fireball of theta headed for earth!

  19. What Marty said. 🙂

  20. Tom Gallagher


  21. Kevin Bloody Mackey

    Michael Laws is tough, smart and generous. I’m glad to call him my friend. Bums and pirates comes to mind. I knew his Dad too.
    Here’s to Michael, he’s true blue,
    He’s a piss pot through and through,
    he’s a bastard so they say,
    tried to go to heaven but he went the other way!

  22. Sounds like quite a guy. Good to know people like this exist 🙂

  23. We have a lot going on in our lives now & I’m still mid my Declaration and story. I’m so looking forward to finally putting the truth out there and announcing myself. I work on it a little every day along with “taking a walk” from it, as needed. LOL.

    Regardless, it will be great to be in touch with many people including the man of the hour here : Mike Laws, cuz I seriously would love to discuss a few things with him that I’ve had attention on for years.

    Once, from several states over, he actually called me to warn me about (or SAVE me rather) from some unforseen suppressive trouble in my environment. He was correct and it was HUGE. Though it was a bit late, at least any future damage was halted and we were then able to handle the situation completely. Not only myself but our entire staff and field was quite thankful for his observation and phone call.

    At that time, I had not heard or seen from him in 4 years. Boom – out of the blue. To me, that’s the stuff heros are made of. It meant ALOT!

    At some eariler point I was even ordered to “unjustly” handle him in Ethics. I’ve always known that I purposely and intentionally “flunked” on those silly orders. Because when I had to come face to face with him, he was simply this great big giant “theta ball” bear. Not only was it unjust, it was fricking impossible!!!

    Until we know the full details of his current “good works” in the Indie field (which I’m sure are above and beyond ), I agree, he IS awesome! 🙂

  24. Michael is definitely one of the coolest guys I know… and he puts on a hell of a fireworks display!


  25. I think you hit it perfectly, The Oracle.

  26. Mike is one of the 1st and finest people I met in the Indie movement… an entrepreneur, an adventurer and an unassuming guy. A big guy with big enough shoulders to carry a lot of us on his shoulders… sometimes we are unknowingly carried on such big shoulders as we rest from our weary travels….so, this is another song that captures a lot of Mike’s unassuming spirit … He ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother..

  27. haydn (T Paine)

    I agree Amy, huge heart!

  28. The road is long
    With many a winding turn
    That leads us to who knows where
    Who knows when
    But I’m strong
    Strong enough to carry him
    He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother

    So on we go
    His welfare is of my concern
    No burden is he to bear
    We’ll get there
    For I know
    He would not encumber me
    He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother

    If I’m laden at all
    I’m laden with sadness
    That everyone’s heart
    Isn’t filled with the gladness
    Of love for one another

    It’s a long, long road
    From which there is no return
    While we’re on the way to there
    Why not share
    And the load
    Doesn’t weigh me down at all
    He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother

    He’s my brother
    He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother…

  29. Mike Laws is truly one of a kind.
    Few people know what a master he is at influencing the outcome.

    influencing the outcome in a positive way for many.

    I consider Mike a close and dear friend.

    Michael is a 2nd generation Scientologist. He grew up in the Church and served many years in the Sea Org in RTC as a young man. I believe he served some 20 years in the SO or thereabouts.
    Although Mike wrote this elsewhere, I am taking the liberty of re-publishing this to give readers a better idea of how he made it after departure from RTC. Here’s Mike in his own words ~~

    EX SO Career … it is possible!

    I was approached by a recruiter a few weeks ago, looking for “Environmental Experts”. Though I am not looking for a job, and can’t take a job because of my business I thought I would kick the tires, just to see.

    Told them that I was a high school drop out, didn’t go back and bother getting my GED, but had started and built an environmental services company over the last 13 years and had some pretty broad experience. They asked me to outline the experience:

    Petroleum tank cleaning experience, starting from the bottom, pressure washers and squeegees in tanks to running million dollar cleaning projects.

    Marine cleaning, from engine room and bilge physical cleaning through water decontamination to cleaning ocean going tankers as large as 1,000 feet. Bottom up experience from cleaning tech through project manager and customer relations.

    Oil recovery form water and sludge, from setting up tanks and hoses to running chemistry, separating water from oil with heat, chemistry and centrifuges, and waste water … all the way from primitive tank or batch processing to building a multi million dollar 3 million gallon a month facility. Personally processed over 50 million gallons of product.

    20-25 oil spill cleanup projects, focusing on equipment deployment and decon and product recovery and waste water treatment.

    Salvaged over 30 vessels either as sole contractor, prime contractor or sub contractor, with focus on environmental, resource recovery and scrapping of old vessels.

    Developed and operated robotic systems to decontaminate hazardous environments without human entry.

    Regulatory compliance on all of the above, including OSHA, EPA, US Coast Guard, etc.

    General business management, finance, banking, taxes, etc.

    bio-remediation of land, dirt and other potentially hazardous materials and environments.

    Odor/vapor control.

    Sales of all the above.

    All standard safety and confined space training and certification.

    He asked about my salary history, and I told him the first 6 years it was between minimum wage and 10-12/hour. mid high 5-6 digit salary after the company stabilized.

    I asked what the market was paying for such. He said in the US +/- 100K but the real money was in the middle east or Asia where any half of the above skill set with actual physical “trade experience” at 8-10 years would get a 5 year contract, at $250-350K plus living expenses, a car, driver, etc. Environmental is often based, particularly field work, is based more on what you can do than what papers you have.

    I was quite stunned to realize that I could have that type of value with no formal education, and having “learned on the job”, granted for not much pay along the way.

    A word of advice to exes, find things you are passionate about and love. Evaluate those that have forward looking business potential, get involved even or especially from the bottom up and become a professional. Build a verifiable performance record. Not all industries require formal education.

    I am far from the most talented person I know in my industry, but I am one of the most persistent. Food for thought

    Mike Laws

    quoted by Karen#1

  30. Lisa Hamilton

    Hey Mike,

    We have been through our “adventures” together (which we will leave to the dusty past)….I am certainly glad to see you acknowledged here….

    Your friend,


  31. Brian Culkin

    Mike Laws is one of the nicest guys I have ever met. I am a better man for knowing him.

  32. +10
    Aussie Aussie Aussie !
    Oi, Oi, Oi!
    Love ya Mike!

  33. Hey guy-Thanks for clarifying that from another guy.

  34. Michael Laws is truly a person who I will always want to be with and very proud and privileged to have him as a friend. His humanistic qualities are vast and pure honorable.

    Thank you Michael for all that you do. Ken

  35. Thanks Karen … I don’t know Mike … but copying his work experience and viewpoint gives me a great idea of who Mike is.

    I love this part — find things you are passionate about and love.

    I think perhaps this is one of the biggest mistakes I’ve made in my adult life after the SO —

    However, I’ve seen one of my ex’s absolutely excel in life, have comm lines that are beyond belief in just 11 years since he left a 28 year old SO career.
    Solely because he followed that concept — find things you are passionate about and love.

    In his case — enormous events — the bigger the better —

    I look forward to meeting Mike — hopefully at the Indy Party …


  36. Truly one of the biggest beings amongst the bigger beings of this universe!

  37. Mike,

    I’ve never had the pleasure of making your acquaintance, but a friend of M&M is a friend of mine.


  38. I’m intrigued by your stellar accomplishments and impressive character references. I’ve loved your input and look forward to the full story when the time is appropriate. I am grateful that your talents have been with the Independants.

  39. threefeetback

    Just what needs to be done with Scientology. Separate all of that DM from the real deal.

  40. I haven’t met you Michael,but I have loved your posts-I feel we are not getting everything you have done here-I get a feeling its alot-so thank you!

  41. 🙂 ♥♥♥
    That’s all I have to say.

  42. Tony DePhillips

    This LRH quote came to mind when you brought up Michael Laws:
    ” I well know Man’s fixation on trying to make “everybody good”. Which means, really, inactive. The best men I have had in wars routinely have been continually arrested and generally frowned upon by “shore patrols”, ” military police” etc. To the body politic. a quiet person is the ideal. When the guns begin to go, these quiet ones are all hiding and only the active ones are there to fight. I often wonder what would happen to a state if it did achieve its apparent goal of making one and all inactive little sheep.” LRH

    I haven’t known Michael that long but one time when I didn’t understand a situation he communicated to me without me even asking for communication and totally handled the situation for me. He is the kind of guy who takes action and doesn’t wait to be invited to do so.

  43. Tony DePhillips

    I agree. He looks like some sort of Duke or something. Someone who the King might not like if the KIng was on the suppressive side. The kind of Duke that would do the right thing and still be able to drink grog with the guys.

  44. Looks like someone DM wouldn’t like to encounter alone.

  45. +1 on what mrinder said. Michael Laws takes pure joy in helping others. Thats the best quality one could have. Lots of love and Thank you Michael. 🙂

  46. Random Stranger

    Nice song.

  47. Thanks for posting that song … I finally understand those lyrics now!

  48. Kevin Bloody Mackey

    Well now there’s nothing else for it. OSA will have to try to finish him off now. Can’t leave a good bloke be you know.

  49. I’d like to second everything everyone else already said, plus the videos, plus say Michael Laws is flat out one of the coolest and best people I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. Gentleman, brother, warrior, friend, comrade in arms, and keeper of the eternal safety net. Fabian guerrilla fighter. Underground railroad engineer. Conductor. Fireman. His specialty is handling toxic sludge: what better force against David Miscavige? He’s even got the points of the old Boy Scout Law — trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent — he’s got them all… except maybe reverent. Okay, for sure not reverent. Make that one “irreverent.”

  50. What she said. 🙂

  51. “We have a lot going on in our lives now & I’m still mid my Declaration and story. I’m so looking forward to finally putting the truth out there and announcing myself. I work on it a little every day along with “taking a walk” from it, as needed. LOL.”

    I’m with yah on that. Believe it or not doing some mest work helps guite a bit. Just yard work, completing some mest cycles of action, wash the car for example. Take a walk.

  52. me too!! love it!! great song.

  53. Great to see you!
    Fantastic photo and yes, that is definitely “Rembrandt lighting”. Just right.
    In the past, when I read a couple of your posts on this site or possibly another (?), you got my attention and I had to go to your business site and see what you were about.
    I was riveted and spent much time on your web site as I clearly agreed with the purpose and activities that you engage in. Your web site was fascinating and I was incredibly impressed! I read much and the more I read, the more I wanted to commend you.
    You are an extraordinary individual and very pleased to see you adding your presence to the cause of human rights and genuine freedom, which is what this blog is all about. Bravo!

  54. I would leave the titles and status levels in connection with the Scientology, such as patron, in the dust of the IAS and the dead cult, the pairing has been tainted beyond repair.

    I hope the indies stand apart and break away from the traditions of the CoS that have served to divide members into a caste system, mostly dependent on money. (I was even bothered by the fact someone who had the money to pay for their OT levels might command more respect than a SO member who dedicated decades of service but may have remaind at the lowest rung of the bridge. In my mind selfless service should be at the pinnacle.)

    I think one big way would be to take the emphasis off of “status” or amounts of money given. There are better and more meaningful ways and I hope the indies find their own.

  55. A picture is worth a thousand words. But the people speaking up on Michael’s behalf go a long way to.
    Currently, there’s an ex-SO on Facebook Ive had friended, but I’m getting ready to drop. He’s twisted off with anger. Lashing out at everyone, even friends. I want to scream,”where’s the product of this anger?” but I know he won’t hear me.
    When I see the photo above, hear discriprions of Mr. Laws, see who steps into the light because he doesnt care to, I see a being bigger than most. His power is reserved and that makes him scary. He’s unafraid. God help the man that pisses him off.

    Books are inspired by such characters. I’m thrilled to know one actually exists! Even more grateful he’s on our side!!!

  56. Michael Laws:

    I’ve heard your name mentioned a few times in connection with some recent events but don’t really know anything about you. This tribute speaks volumes about the kind of person you must be.

    Reading what Karen#1 posted that you wrote earlier also gave me a good picture of who you are and what you are about. Your words of advice are definitely good advice for anyone who has left the S.O. I myself tried various things to make money when I first got out. I even got an incredible job offer from someone I looked up who knew me 25 years before (before the S.O.) and I took the job. I kept trying to convince myself that I could do the job. I actually hated it. It was the one and only time I have ever been fired from a job due to incompetence. In the end I was glad it happened as the job required me to make myself into someone that was not me. I then tried another job which was on pure commission, but although it was honest work, the environment was very dog-eat-dog and at the end of the day I felt degraded having to compete in such a ruthless game (public insurance adjusting). I finally did what Mike said… I went back to my first (and only) love as a career….information technology. I LOVE this work and have always considered it simply having fun, getting to solve complex problems to help people and businesses accomplish what they wanted to. I now am a well respected developer building websites (had to upgrade my skills that were out of date by 25 years … and in this field it was really like a “rip van winkle” caper). But my love for it saw me through and now I am doing great.

    I mention this to give some credibility to the advice Mike gives so that other “exes” know that this is possible. And I did this at the age of 58…an “old man” by most societal standards. So, take heart my fellow travelers and revel in the opportunity to “re-invent” yourself into something you can be proud of. Makes you feel like a young idiot with your whole life ahead of you.

    Hy Levy

  57. Just got home from a day of work and saw this tribute to Michael.

    A super great guy as everyone knows. Willing to help when needed and not expecting any praise.

    Thanks Michael for all that you have done and will do in the future!! We are all lucky to know you!

  58. I hope you’ll fill us in when the time is appropriate. I have no idea who this guy is or why he is so special,

  59. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Hy. Reminds me of Viktor Frankl – in his advice on how to find to find one’s meaning or purpose, he asks one to honestly find out what it is he or she really enjoys doing or producing.

  60. Firebreathing Frog

    So are all so inspiring.
    I’ve got to come here every days, afraid of missing something.
    So much truth and theta here.
    Love you all.

    Here is a quote, I think fit this post:

    “To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken.

    If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal.

    Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness.

    But in that casket – safe, dark, motionless, airless – it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable.”
    – C.S. Lewis

  61. Mike Laws is a true legend as far as I’m concerned.

    I’m sure he’s blushing from the praise being heaped on him here, but if you ever wanted the antithesis of DM, Mike would come closer than anyone else I know.

    I’m proud that he calls me his friend.

  62. And he has a REALLY REALLY big dog!

  63. Hi Bozz,

    Could I kindly suggest you not drop your ex-SO facebook friend. Even Mike Laws went through that phase. We all did. God willing and with the help of rational views from people he knows, such as your good self, he will hopefully arrive at a more balanced place from which to rebuild his life.

    As you rightly point out there is no product of anger, save being angry. Anyone who has been abused has the right to be angry. He just needs help processing that anger in a positive way. Perhaps you could suggest a few things to him? Write a letter to each person he is angry with (don’t send them), join a boxing club and beat the living shit out of a punching bag whilst imaging it to be X, or perhaps go somewhere he cannot be heard so he can scream bloody murder at the top his lungs and get it all out.

    In my experience it never serves any purpose to point out that someone is wrong. Best thing to do is suggest that he is right but that perhaps he could improve the situation by doing X.

    Something you will find almost all successful people doing when they are “in a bad place” as it were, is to imagine themselves in the future, perhaps even at the end of their lives, and ask themselves what they would have liked themselves to do back then when things were rough. This is a very simply way of clarifying any doubts you have about what to do today. Maybe you could suggest this to him?

    In any event I look forward to the day that all those who have left the Sea Org are able to rebuild their lives as well as Mike has.

    Perhaps we can help them?

  64. Long before the Corporate church used the word “patron” it was used to indicate someone who sponsors artists etc etc

    Rather than become people who REACT to words, ideals etc because the Corporate Church misused them … lets just be clear on the intention behind the words, by manifesting what we are talking about.

    ie — walking the talk.

    AND like it or not, there is a natural hierarchy in the world … in the best of companies, there is still a “boss” — in the best of countries, there is still someone designated as a leader …

    Natural hierarchy is just fine. It’s when someone with zero ability to lead takes over, that we all suffer.


  65. Thank you Marty for this tribute to Michael.
    Thank you Michael for all that you have done. I am proud to know you 🙂

  66. Brightfametexan

    I got a tweet that there’d been a blog update as I was driving through the downpour in E. Texas. So I was only able to see a snippet of the post (yes, driving and web surfing).
    I was pleasantly surprised to see this brilliance of a post and even more so the outpouring from the people who know Mike and what he’s made of.

  67. John Fennessey

    Michael, your beingness and doingness is getting stamped with high praise by some pretty credible sources. Your bordering on legend. I am sure you earned it. Well done.

  68. Wonderful friend with an enormous heart! 🙂 🙂

  69. TroubleShooter

    FishFlyToo, I’m touched by your story. Mike’s actions were such a good-hat thing to do and your acknowledgement of it to us is a great prelude to what you have to say in the future.

    Captain Bob, you’re so right about MEST work helping – I grabbed myself by the scruff of the neck and strapped on my tool belt and immersed myself in renovations for months to channel the suppression away from me and turn it into a creation that saved my sanity, my life.

    I’ve worked on my effort to communicate what lead to me being here. It’s an effort at putting a book into a chapter into a page and always ends in me deleting it all, wiping my face, swearing like a sailor and going for a walk.

    I look forward to meeting you Mike. The respect and admiration you’ve earned is the measure of true wealth and value to the business of living whether it’s done with a friend on the waters’ edge with a fishing pole in hand or in the boardroom with a pen in hand. Maybe we’ll get the chance in MN in July?

  70. hi bruce
    Just wanted to say thanks again for dinner last weekend and I enjoyed our communication, good to hook up with other people in the bayou state that is on the same page. . We can enjoy some football in the fall only if you dont wear that silly orange and blue attire!!

  71. check out this great post by Mike Laws—12/04/2011–This is just a small part, please take time to read the whole post.

    “It saddens me to tears watching people I know, people I love running on a hamster wheel, flat out, thinking they are going somewhere, wasting their lives, completely certain in their personal belief and confidence in the COS or tech, not realizing that what they are doing is making no measurable progress or gain, but convinced, every year for the past 30 years that planetary clearing, or OT IX, or global recognition of Scientology, or their own financial independence, or their own happiness is months or a few years away.

  72. When I first met Mike he was working in AVC RTC. He was the ONLY person I met in RTC that wasn’t a “superior being”. Mike was quick to make friends and was always helpful when you needed help. Mike was there to get the show on the road. I was doing evals at the time and needed to get them approved by AVC. Mike helped me. Mike always helped everyone. That’s what he does. He does what ever he can to make the endeavor he is connected with succeed. This is what he is doing now.

    ML Tom

  73. John Fennessey

    Michael, this work by Rudyard Kipling is offered for you today.


    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too:
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim,
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same:.
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build’em up with worn-out tools;

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
    And never breathe a word about your loss:
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much:
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

    Rudyard Kipling

  74. This is the (MIP) picture that goes with the song…. Father Flanagan’s boystown…

  75. TheWidowDenk

    TroubleShooter says in part: “Captain Bob, you’re so right about MEST work helping – I grabbed myself by the scruff of the neck and strapped on my tool belt and immersed myself in renovations for months to channel the suppression away from me and turn it into a creation that saved my sanity, my life.”

    Me too! I went on MEST work immediately after Dr Denk’s departure and stayed on it for 4+ years. Extemely therapeutic as I didn’t feel I necessarily had to answer the myriad of phone calls trying to get me to do something, buy something, talk about something, go somewhere, etc. Eventually dropped all those comm lines as there wasn’t really anything I was going to do or buy or talk about; and I didn’t really need to go anywhere.

    I’m now seven years out and, while I didn’t put on a tool belt and renovate, I still take on MEST work as a daily, natural, therapeutic, action. Of course discovering the Independent community in 2010 has
    been a real boon to my life and I very much enjoy being in touch and contributing when I can! Rachel

  76. TheWidowDenk

    What a nice acknowledgement of Michael Laws! Thank you for sharing the topic and all the comments. Good stuff!!

  77. Sunny, I agree with you completely here. One of the things that I have most battled with is the culture status of Scientology, something I found permeating my own thinking and actions as I tried to find my way. Clear, OT VII, or OT VIII, Classed auditors, IAS Patron MegaGlorius, Old Timer, Past Lifer, Second Generation, etc. etc. etc. All seem to have become statuses used to elevate the relative value of a few over the many.

    What is value? What is goodness? What is right? These should be simple concepts that were pretty illusive to me, I still struggle with questions on these. In the end, what probably matters is that a person does their best to act and do what is right, to take responsibility for their past deeds, and to work to create a positive influence in their sphere of influence. The values of each persons efforts are varied and individual as the personality and circumstances involved.

    Labels are, IMHO a debilitating practice. As is comparing people on simple measures or values. There will always be someone richer, better looking, thinner, fitter, etc. etc. Being able to decide what is important and valuable to us and doing our best to support or forward is an essential element in our personal and spiritual evolution. Being satisfied with what we do is peaceful, rewarding, to hell with what anyone else thinks.

  78. LOL Centurion, not dead yet, though I kind of felt the same way. After I got over my irritation at Marty posting this, I started reading the comments. Makes a hell of a point for telling people how we feel about them while they are still alive, rather than telling complimentary stories over a coffin!

  79. Tony and Lawrence,

    The photo is the magical combination of my un-photogenic nature, Marty’s cheap cell phone camera, poor lighting, me leaning over my kitchen counter telling him not to take my photo and I do not want him to put a post up on me, Probably 2-3 years ago, amazed he still kept the damn picture, I hand’t seen it before.

  80. A well-deserved acknowledgement for one of the good guys. Michael, there’s a lot of love for you here. Let it in.

  81. Love you guys. Need to send you a photo of how beautifully green my pond has grown in after Mikes pyro adventure. Those that didn’t make it to my New Years party missed a fireworks extravaganza, where after lighting the night to day, and then the sun came up, Mike decided to engineer a bazooka to fire bundled up rockets into the middle of my pond for underwater explosions. Miscalculated trajectories, beer does not make everything better, resulted in charges skipping across the surface and lodging in the reeds, igniting a 30 foot ring of fire. Mike standing on a mound, hands akimbo, surveying the inferno, screaming “someone get me a damn cigarette”, Bruce Pratt running around trying to string together garden hose, Laura running around yelling to find a telephone to call the fire department, the rest of us unable to stand because we are laughing so hard. Mike and Laura are must have guests to every party.

  82. The feeling is mutual, Graham.

  83. Nah, it was the guests that made the display and party, your daughter though, as the fire starter turned pyromonsther. That girl is going to live a life of fire and spice!

  84. Email your ex-S.O. buddy a copy of the ‘Ethics Repair List’ that was just posted here. Almost everyone who’s read it, has blown huge chunks of charge. I can only imagine the full ep of having it run on yourself.

    I’ll bet you dollars to donuts, your buddy will have some huge cognitions just reading that HCOB.

  85. Hi Lisa,

    Yeah, there were absolutely some adventures. Was fascinated to connect up with you after you left as to why a non enturb order remained active on me for over a decade! I didn’t want to be acknowledged here, but Marty decided he needed to dePTS my ass.

  86. Ken, the feeling is absolutely mutual.

    When I arrived in Houston out of the Sea Org, Ken was one of the first “real” business men I met. He spent some time showing me around his business, breaking it down so that I could see how it really worked, obviously very different to the Church. His kindness and time helped change the course of my life.

  87. I agree, he is a good man

  88. Random Stranger

    Well then, Mr. Laws doesn’t make this list:

    T H E L I S T




    💀 POL POT









  89. martyrathbun09

    Micheal, I took it at the restaurant you took me to in Beaumont for my birthday 2010; was trying out the cell phone Mosey had just given me. Saved it cause it was a gem. Beginner’s luck.

  90. martyrathbun09

    Was designed to make you come out and chat with folks (to prove you weren’t dead).

  91. FCDC Class of 74

    I’m in awe, I only thought beings like Mike could be . Now I see that they are, and that renews my faith that they can be and with their help aid others to be as well. Thanks Marty for bringing into a spotlight the things Mike does and has done, he may not necessarily want to be in the spotlight but know that it does immeasurable good for alot of beings.

  92. Tony DePhillips

    Sometimes the stars are in alignment!! 🙂

  93. Tony DePhillips

    Aye Cap’n Bob, where is that write-up matie???

  94. +1

    (I don’t know Mike, but the picture communicates exactly what you said.)

  95. I completely agree with you Michael. Sage words for us all!

  96. Too bloody right Mate, truth in humor! We have talked many times about our desire to retire from the game, and every time we did, they dragged us back in to the dog fight. I am wondering how they will interpret Marty’s post … as an unauthorized acknowledgment to a friend getting on with a new chapter in his life, or … a new problem for them with many complications!

    Based on their history, they will guess wrong and do the absolute worst thing possible for themselves in retaliation!

  97. My puppy.

  98. Sunny V
    Thankyou. You got your importances straight.

  99. Sunny V,
    Like some comment DM made at an event to TC: You are the most dedicated Scientologist of ___ i forget the end it was so not correct as I thought of my years, my X husbands, and at that point it was when I did my doubt formula.
    He lost.
    X SO 20 yrs.
    X Wife 25 yrs
    X $ofS 15 yrs. (still in rehab)

  100. martyrathbun09


  101. Boz and Chris,

    I am with Chris on this one. It seems we are not very willing to openly discuss how black and dark and painful recovery to the real world from the SO is. IMHO, we were part of one of the major cons of the 20th century, signing a billion year contract, never shown the complete picture, working towards an impossible goal (how do you actually clear the planet with the average cost of clearing probably $100,000, Clear not being what described in DMSMH, and most of the planetary population unable to afford a refrigerator and weeks worth of food in advance for their family?). We lived under consistent crisis, often manufactured to force more production or money from our staff and public, were lied to about out size and credibility and successes. We were told we were the elite of the world, the universe, but if we left we would either die within months, or do no more than flip burgers at McDonalds. Because of the environment we don’t know what real friends are, relationships are often of convenience, fickle depending of the opinions of our masters against us, we can be assigned to the RPF on the word of a teenage girl in a Navy uniform who despite no life experience believes she is an emissary of LRH and is assigned unlimited ethics power. We piss the wrong person off and we can be assigned to the RPF for 5-10-20 years with no recourse. We want to leave and we loose any of our family in Scientology, husbands, wives, children, parents. People lie about their success and “stats” so we have a hard time finding mentors and models against which we might rebuild our lives.

    In my experience the truth about this recovery is not openly discussed. People, even out, find themselves in a dark space, feeling alone, different, the only ones doing poorly, privately questioning and in doubt on everything from their ability, goodness to their right to succeed.

    In my opinion, the route to recovery requires honest and open friends. It requires us to be able to honestly evaluate ourselves and our abilities, learn enough about the world to know what skills are needed, and evaluate where we need to learn and improve. A good friend will privately tell a person “hey, you are out of line here” or “do you realize the effect you are creating when you do that?”

    As Marty was issuing this thread, I was writing an email to a few people I was working with on a project with some people who know of my past. I am re-posting part of it here as appropriate to this conversation:

    ” … Thanks for helping us sort our drama.

    When I left the Sea Org, I spent most of 10 years trying to be a “good Scientologist”. The Scientology world was the only thing I knew, the was the religion I was raised in, it was the only way to think. My success was pretty abysmal, some 17 different jobs, a failure financially as a provider to my family, my children, a poor example as a father, horrible husband, a poor friend to others, and I didn’t have a lot of friends, I didn’t actually know what friendship was. In the Scientology world, the goal is everything, the ends justify the means, and people to a greater or lesser degree are disposable, something to be used. Friends are “comm lines” or “resources” to be used towards a goal. I believe a fatal flaw in the Scientology culture is that people are disposable, friendships are contingent upon their “condition” in the group or to each other.

    I did not like myself, I did not consider myself worthy, I did not know if I was good or evil, I didn’t know if I could actually produce things of value to others. With my manner, I hurt those closest to me, those trying to help me including family. I was a lousy employee, I would not have hired me. I reached the point where I needed to break from everything Scientology. I had long tried to find “mentors”, successful people in the COS that I could emulate to build success or wealth. All these efforts failed, I realized many people in that culture are lying to themselves, and deceive others, people did not know how to create friendships, they did not know how to build relationships, they often did not know how to give and help purely, without demanding excessive exchange to forward their own personal agendas.

    After exiling myself to punishment in trying to make the latest likely failure of my life a success, and after getting away from all things Scientology, I started building some real friendships. Being in Texas, most were Christian in faith, and while I met my share of “Christian” con men, as I built some honest credibility in the world, I realized many of those that I truly respected and admired held their faith strongly and quietly, did not publicize it, nor did they push it on others. They lived their life to represent their beliefs, and gained spiritual benefit simply from the way they treated other people. They helped without need for thanks or aggrandizement, they preferred to keep a low profile and have their good quietly change things to the positive.

    I wish I had met you a dozen years ago, it would have made my path easier and more pleasant.

    I am prefixing us … as “WE”, regarding our relationship with you, because we are in reality one. We were set specific goals … In these goals we are united, but we are damaged goods, people damaged by a high control and abusive cult. We often don’t realize how damaged we are and in how many ways we are damaged and dysfunctional. We have to live life, push the envelope, do things, see where we fail, and work to correct ourselves. It requires brutal self honesty and reflection.

    I am embarrassed by and apologize for some of our behavior …. We will work to correct and improve and learn and grow. Thank you for your nature and goodness. You are a true inspiration to all of us. …”

  102. Well thankyou Mosey. Behind every great man is a women – even if its a mom.
    Thanks Mosey for sticking with this guy that is handling a bunch of broken hearts.

  103. Nah, it is I that am humbled to have Scooter as a friend, a legend in his own right, a wonderful father, person and all around good person. Scooter is an example of what is good in exes, respects and defends the rights of people to practice Scientology in positive and non destructive manners, despite no longer calling the faith his own. Scooter has had to work through tremendous blackness, including the loss of two children, one through direct physical negligence by and in an org. Despite all the reasons to be a ball of negativity and anger, his compassion and love for others is an inspiration to me. He is a friend to all, indies, exes, COS members, anon, etc.

    We have a lot in common, though I suspect Scoots gets higher points in his humanity than I score.

  104. Danke! Ich auch mit dir!

  105. Wow! Sounds enlightnighing! Did I spell that right?
    Sorrry – could care less.
    Thanks much
    Patron (haha funny!)

  106. This brings up an interesting point. My interest is not in fighting the COS, I have been invited into a dozen law suits and before dozens of media outlets, all of which I declined. My interest is people, just people. I think there were a lot of good people hurt, churned through the meat grinder and spat out as waste. These people deserve friendship and support in getting back on the feet. This has been the focus of almost all the work I have done with Marty.

    I no longer consider myself a Scientologist, nor do I call myself an independent. I have no desire to move on the bridge, or get auditing, but believe I and everyone else should have the right to do so if we choose.

    Scientologist and Indy are labels, which I discussed earlier as something I do not believe are productive. What is a Scientologist? What is KSW? How does someone apply KSW when there are 20 revisions of almost every book, and most of Hubbard’s later writings are confidential? If all tech provided by LRH is equal, how does the basic goodness and wisdom in a book like “Problems of Work” compare on a human level with his writings on Fair Game, Disconnection, Intelligence issues, intelligence issues, attacks on critics, etc.? Why do we need a label to make us something before others?

  107. We had some good times back then Tom. It was funny, I took great pride in gaining no rank while raising to RTC, I was the highest placed longest term swamper in the Sea Org I think.

  108. Depends who you ask. I make the list if you ask the right people!

  109. The question from Centurion was, “Can we have some more details?”.
    I meant to be courteous and provide information only. It was not even in my thoughts to establish a new class system in the independent movement. I had not given any thought to the I.A.S..

    We are all patrons of the Independent Movement. As we all lend support and give birth to it in various forms. The main root word as I posted, means father.

    I cannot control people’s memories or unpleasant associations via words.

    And I cannot discount someone’s value because a word has several meanings. And if someone asks a question it is because they want to know. And if I provide some answer it is to help them know better.

    Whatever else was woven into this was not from my mind and it is not my item.

  110. Oh shush up Heather, you know damn well this thread is pushing the hell out of my buttons.

    Now Heather, she is a real story, an incredible story. Never in Scientology, a Christian, a legal professional who has worked tirelessly to help people in their recovery. Someday I want to tell her story, I pale in the shadow of her greatness.

  111. My intentions have been alter ised here. I intended to answer a question only. Thank you for clearly duplicating my intention.

  112. LOL, well done Marty, mission accomplished.

  113. Thank you for your kind and vital support, your friendships to those on the front lines Mike. That effects everyone in the independent movement and helps to create a safe space where auditing can occur. Many products of clears and OT’s are being made in the Independent Movement. This would not be so possible without the folks on the front the lines and the support granted to them.

  114. Well said Chris. Sometimes I think I’m the angriest person I know….

    It’s getting better, mostly because a whole lot of people were patient and didn’t “unfriend” me.

    Bozz, hang in there. Most folks are worth the wait while they get being pissed off out of their system.

  115. You made this connection a status in Scientology. That was not my meaning at all. But we are connected to Scientology in the status of “Independents”. So status’ are used to communicate intentions. I hope you can believe it has never entered MY mind to create a class system in the Independent movement. Although I need to know what class auditor someone is, so I know who to go to. I hope this also does not become a problem. It causes a lot of frustration for everyone when someone thinks, and promotes that they are a class lV and they are not even through a class O checksheet. They are a graduate of some week end training seminar. The word PATRON is from OLD FRENCH. It is not any exclusive term in the tech dictionary or exclusive or copyright of any group. It would be inconvenient to have to create a new language so nobody remembers the C of S or some unpleasant person or experience they found there.

  116. Ah, Karen, perhaps one of the ultimate examples of a person who marches to the beat of her own drum, regained and holds her integrity sacred, acts for what she sees as right without permission or approval. A lovely team player.

    This post was one of several threads I started on ESMB, partly to sort my own thought process and bounce ideas, and partly to inspire others to act in the real world rather than stay stuck on issues in the past where further discussion was not productive.

    Love you Karen.

  117. Mike Laws, I feel as thought I know you. A strong and powerful being you are!

  118. Rory Medford

    Thanks for your support Mike. One by one the good people of scientology will leave and support the independent field and what will be left in corporate scn is a bunch of people who failed to look at the current scene and even they too will leave and DM will be left with a bunch of empty building the Independent field will take over

  119. “Why do we need a label to make us something before others?”

    So nobody gets beat up. A lot of men do not want to pick up a chick to find they have been mislead.

  120. Michael Laws,
    I’ll take it on faith and with confidence in the words of the others that you have gone far above and beyond to assist others to de-PTS and recoup their lives post the tyranny of David Miscavige and his enablers. Your own story is so energizing, I hope to be able to share it with others.

    My purpose in writing here, though, is to say I went to your website (as cited above) and I was blown away with your business purpose and product and evident successes – truly making something out of nothing! What you are doing is so needed and wanted in this world, and it takes a phenomenal level of confront of the physical universe. You are indeed a warrior and a leader in so many ways. Glad to have you on this planet – in more ways than one!

  121. Rory Medford

    And of course standard SCN will occur in those new buildings and glory will be restored to LRH and his tech

  122. Marty,
    Apu ????

  123. Also, a class Xll might not want to run the L’s on someone who has only done a comm course?

  124. Also, you might not want to go to the dentist for a broken leg?

  125. Or, you might not want engine oil poured on your tomato plants?

  126. martyrathbun09

    As per usual.

  127. martyrathbun09

    Labels, without the power of obnosis, only make that more possible.

  128. Sorry, it’s my nature to solve puzzles. I’ll shut it off for the moment.

  129. martyrathbun09

    He is not referring or even implying that one not state their class for purposes of providing services. Instead, when you give those labels any meaning outside of an auditing session you might be making a huge mistake – as many Corporate Scientologists do day in and day out.

  130. Lisa Hamilton


    Well, being the type of issue it was, it was expired not so very long after it was written. It was simply a suppressive use of “justice” and a pathetic means of attempting to terrorize you into dropping some comm lines and/or having someone drop their comm line to you.

    We know exactly the real reason it was ordered, but the good part about it is that it DID NOT get a product.

    Call me anytime if you need reminding….


  131. ex SO member

    Hi Mike, I know you from way back when you worked as an admin in AVC Int in Del Sol. Great to hear from you!! What’s the best email address to reach you at?

  132. martyrathbun09

    A Scientologist is somebody who uses Scientology technology to better conditions, imho.

  133. martyrathbun09

    An Independent is a Scientologist or former Scientologist who uses Scientology technology and/or whatever other methodology fits the circumstances to better conditions.

  134. martyrathbun09

    Hey, wait a second – that makes you an Indie.

  135. I apologize if my comment seemed to misinterpret you. Sunny made a comment I feel strongly about, that statuses as used in the Scientology culture are conflicting with the idea of finding our individual humanity.

    An organizational phenomena I noticed with LRH, DM and later myself though on a much smaller scale, was when success and power are accumulated, the support network tends to protect the top from bad news, a good intention. Unfortunately this seems to evolve into protecting the top from the negative consequences of their actions.

    I hit a position of feeling invincible at one point, my support group just giving me positive feed back, handling or ignoring the negative gave me unrealistically elevated belief in my ability so that I later caused some catastrophic circumstances that were quite effective in humbling me.

    Forgive me if I am over sensitive on the status thing, I have found it quite dangerous.

  136. Mike,
    Thank you for this. It sheds some more of the mystery that surrounds you here, not having met you in person in the S.O. or otherwise. Many things you bring up ring a bell. In particular re “doing poorly in the wog world” once out of the S.O. This has now helped to shed a false datum.
    Yes it does take decompression time and a very steep learning curve but it sure as hell these obstacles CAN be overcome.

  137. I have crossed path that turned into a toll road. I hasten now to move along. Unfortunate village dispute behind me.

  138. Centurion, I will correct my answer. I only say this is not a memorial service. The figure in mention is not a dead one.

  139. 🙂
    Seems to be the only consequent conclusion.
    Even if independent from all labels.

  140. I am stopped. No problem. Thank you.

  141. Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    Thank you for the poem John Fennessey. I loved it!
    What does IMHO mean?

  142. Thanks Marty! 🙂

  143. Hi Mike,

    Good summation of what I also view to be the biggest barrier to recovery.

    It wasn’t until I started opening up about my experiences, initially to a kind but not entirely effective therapist, that I was able to begin my journey to recovery in earnest. This, in time, lead me to finding exactly what I needed, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually to find peace. Strangely when I found what I was looking for it was almost too much to handle, an overload of relief if you like. It has been many years since and I am getting very used to that peace now. Though of course that peace, like life itself, needs nurturing but it has gotten easier and easier,

    Everyone has their own journey of course but I think it is fair to say that it can’t truly begin until you open up to those you trust. And that includes yourself.

    If the statement that “on the day we can fully trust each other there will be peace on earth” is true then I think it’s safe to say that on the day you can fully trust yourself you will find peace. And being able to trust oneself is a wonderful way to live life.

    But this journey, no matter the path and not matter how hard it may be, is always worth it. You, and many others, are a testament to that.

    Though not a Buddhist, a quote I like to remind myself from the Dalai Lama about subjects of this nature:
    “There is one enemy who is always an enemy, with whom you should never compromise; that is the enemy inside your heart. You cannot change all these bad thoughts into your friend, but you have to confront and control them”.

    It took me a long time to realize that the enemy inside me was the only one that ever really hurt me.

  144. Random Stranger

    The Factors.

  145. Thank you for sharing this email excerpt. It indicated in so many ways.

  146. He ally of Shogun … er ….uh … I mean Mr. Rathbun.

    Shogun means unsupressed by laws, not t.v. figure Richard Chamberlain. O.K., it means both.

    I go now. Mindless pheasants make dirty the bath water. I go to the river to swim.

  147. Michael,
    You make me smile, mucho!! 🙂

  148. Much soothe in what you say. Who would have guessed that we would become embattled warriors from that which we fought so hard for. The recovery from such betrayal is not a short and easy road, some make it and some don’t…I’m thankful friends who have helped us walk that treacherous road.

  149. Mr. Fennessey… you beat me to it!


  150. I will return with fish for breakfast eating.

  151. Random Stranger


    March 13, 2012


    1) Create such a mystery among the general public as to whether or not David Miscavige beats people that the vacuum sucks in the entire population of Earth.

    2) Once everyone’s attention is focused on us we will blast out the Power Commands over global satellite to billions of suppressive people, thus salvaging them.

    3) We will finally announce a date for a press conference with David Miscavige, the sole remaining Warrior for Peace and Enlightenment on Earth. It will be an event approximating the Coming of Jesus.

    4) The following announcement from Mr. Miscavige, Chairman of the Board of the Religious Technology Center and Church of Spiritual Technology shall be posted on the internet:

    “Dear Earthlings,

    I realize that the recent reports in the media about how I have struck people or submitted them to unnatural forms of pressure in my quest to triumph in our church’s objectives may seem extreme, cruel or unwarranted. However, let me assure you, whatever I have done I have done for your benefit, not mine. All of you people are essentially doomed. With the good graces of my management skills, combined with the brilliance of L. Ron Hubbard’s spiritual technology, you have a possible chance to not wind up an unconscious molecule stuck in a rock for eternity.

    So if I have to slap a few people around or dish out a little pressure to get things done, I don’t expect to be judged and executed in the media by uninformed robo-journalists nor the ignorant general public nor parishioners nor low-level staff who just sweep the floor or polish the doorknobs.

    I’m the supreme leader of a global religion with a billion dollars at his disposal. I have a temper. I’m dedicated. Do you really wish to mess with that? Please, take my word for it, you need me.

    David Miscavige
    Leader of a World-Wide Religion”

    5) Get ready for the assembly line process of making Clears like Henry Ford first started spitting out Model T’s and Model A’s, like the Chinese in running stance getting ready to produce everything the West consumes.

    6) Reveal the truth that Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder are both shills for the church and were on a mission to help create such a PR blunder that it captivated a global audience. This is sure to demonstrate our superiority of manipulation of people’s minds, causing them to admit they need our help.

    7) Free Life Repair for everyone. Yes, using the streamlined and highly effective method of the Golden Age of Tech, we can produce a perfect Class I auditor in only one year of constant drilling. They may have done it faster in the past, but it was all wrong.

    8) While everyone’s waiting for their Life Repair, they are ripe for buying multiple sets of Basics. I plan to change them every six months or so, as I discover more and more typos and transcription errors and publisher edits that will change the whole flavor of what LRH wrote. So income won’t suffer during the waiting period.

    9) Mass Mandatory Objective Co-Audits: the entire population, due to our influence at the United Nations, will be mandated to perform the Objective Processes on each other until we say so. This is our Secret Plan. If everyone is co-auditing (or else no food or water or sleep) then there will be no time for war or other shenanigans.

    10) All arbitraries removed. No stops to Clear. As soon as someone says they are Clear, that’s it, bang, they’re Clear. Then it’s on to the OT levels, where that’ll keep them busy for years, climbing in and out of debt, etc. That’s just the way it is, I’m Chairman and if I say it is so it is so.


    David Miscavige
    Leader of a World-Wide Religion

  152. Mike, et all…

    I wonder if, semantics aside, “labels”, though useful at times, should be left to the eye of the beholder to formulate and even when imposed should never ever replace one’s own conclusions based on his/her observations?

    In other words don’t “label” yourself, let others do that. And conversely don’t “label” others, or if you do then convey your “labeling” in a constructive and unassuming way such that they may adjust their actions accordingly if it isn’t how they want to be “labeled”.

    Just a thought.

    Obviously labels on engine oil being the exception.


  153. “I no longer consider myself a Scientologist, nor do I call myself an independent. I have no desire to move on the bridge, or get auditing, but believe I and everyone else should have the right to do so if we choose.”
    You could be a twin of my spouse, that being said, I hadn’t had auditing in 14 yrs and got some and WOW, WOW. Wasn’t expecting much but after some grinding in getting thru my own skepticism, it really was good. Unexpected changes occurred and that was only on the CS 53, tis worth it to me IMHO.

  154. Possibly, some slippery eel.

  155. Hi Mike,
    I agree, on the “don’t give up on the guy” aspect except for one thing. In your story above, you said, “After exiling myself to punishment in trying to make the latest likely failure of my life a success, and after getting away from all things Scientology, I started building some real friendships.”

    The FB person to whom I refer is well known on Marty’s blog. Though I consider the guy a “friend,” I have never met him. I was never in the S.O., but was at I.T.O. for 4+ years so I feel a kinship with many of you. And though I tried the softer touch of,”Hey buddy, you might want to ABC…” It was met wtih a very direct explitive and order. To be honest, if someone wants me to F Off… I figure it’s good advice. I certainly wouldn’t want to remain in order to welcome such a suggestion coming my way again.

    You are absolutly on to something with the “fake” relationships, friendships, etc. For a bunch of people concerned about tearing away valences, they sure do have a lot of ’em themselves, don’t they? I would wander around at events and just stare in awe at the fake communication that was being batted around the place. My friends were few, but for the most part were genuine. My desire to help was always there. Then came the Data Series and the brakes slammed on… mind went topsy-turvey.

    Getting back into the “real” world was a joke in and of itself, as we have all found. Finding Yourself is definitely step one. But there is so much more to do. Okay, enough about this. My point I want to leave you with, though leaving lines of communication open to those who haven’t blown off enough steam yet can be a good thing… I can also choose to defer this rascal to another channel. I’m not the only one out there to save him. I can choose to accept his communication or not, that’s all I’m doing here. And it is something important to remember: making the choice to accept or not some communication. Others may be tough enough to bare the winds of this change. Others, such as myself, have other games that take our attention. That’s all. I’m not giving up on the guy. But then again, if he’s not ready to be HERE… with US, I don’t nessecarily need to wait on him either.

  156. Mindless pheasant referring to myself.

  157. martyrathbun09

    Interestingly, that is where Scientology can lead, and I suggest if wisely applied does lead.

  158. martyrathbun09

    Sorry if I confused matters – I don’t see the threads to which the pending comments are supposed to append – so sometimes I got a little non seq on folks.

  159. martyrathbun09

    I think I messed up by responding to a stand-alone comment; when moderating I don’t get them within the thread they belong in. So, whatev.

  160. Shogun no problem. Shogun made ally known. Good for Shogun, good for ally. Good for tribe. The Oracle’s buttons not good for tribe. I will make my weak spots disappear so they can not be probed and turn The Oracle into a squeak toy.

  161. Tom Gallagher

    IMHO = In my humble opinion.

  162. Touche Bozz… his journey is not yours.

  163. I’m nobody but yet everybody. My write-up is the same as everybody else’s to a greater or lesser degree. Thanks for asking, though.

  164. And therein lies a truth many struggle with. But a truth nonetheless and, though a challenge at times, I know no better man than yourself to make it known.


  165. I like it, your posts.

    One has to wonder how many labels or pins or badges DM pins on himself? Maybe he puts one on everytime he shuts down another “squirrel”, hahahaha.

    I wonder, if I walk into a newly visited city’s class V org, and I announce I’m OT8 from Italy or whenever, just visiting. Will the staff now roll out a red carpet for me. Will they listen to me with wonderment? Is there some secret signal or handshake that another OT8 gives me?

    I wonder if I’m OT8 and announce this to some new job I’m applying for, will they give it to me automatically? Will a red carpet come out?

    None of my questions are meant to invalidate anybody or evaluate them either. Just questions.

  166. reminds me of that scene in crocodile dundee where he announces “Hey, she’s a he”

  167. Patron = someone who cares. Espacialy someone who puts effort in order to better conditions, because he can and because he cares.
    Patrons seldom do things because they want something in return ( there is this distinction from the term “Sponsor”).
    Patrons do it just because they do it.
    There are four motivations for a thetan
    1) Money (lowest)
    2) Personal Gains
    3) Personal Conviction
    4) Duty

    I wonder which of those tribes David Miscavige.
    Don’t tell me – I will get it some day. *hhee*

  168. Mike, you said:

    “In my opinion, the route to recovery requires honest and open friends. It requires us to be able to honestly evaluate ourselves and our abilities, learn enough about the world to know what skills are needed, and evaluate where we need to learn and improve.”

    “learn enough about the world to know what skills are needed”

    To succeed if one finds himself alone, gone from the church, no skills he/she thinks………..the answer is quite simple really. And it is in executive success PL. One finds, strengthens or creates a demand. And that applies to finding a job. Hop onto the winning group, or product or service and learn about it, do it. And demand is defined as having the want plus the wherewithal. And unfortunately wherewithal in today’s world means money = also credit available, but whatever.

    But, I agree with your whole write-up. As I see it but have not put it into words like you did. And I am only able to see it, and have only experienced it to a lessor degree. My empathy is much. But hey, you’re a dude.

  169. Mike was being bashed on at least one other forum, including by friends of mine.

    I always liked what he posted, and so suggested we chat by phone as I can call most places for free.

    Found him smart and charming and genuine. Someone I’d like to have as a friend. 🙂

  170. No, I don’t think so. The whole Scientology theater is a universe that has been created. All we really have are these various universes that have been created. If you announce yourself as an OT8 in another universe they might not offer you a seat. If you announce yourself as a government employee say, as an F.B.I. employee in the Church, they will not offer you a session. You have to be part of these universes and appear there in an identity that fits into that theater to be seen heard or served or obeyed or respected. Otherwise, you are classified as an “alien”. Obama is an illegal P.C. because he has government connections. A ClassXll would not get hired to work in a day care center changing diapers on his certs. Your value aligns with what universe you make yourself a guest in. The C of S has become a universe of David Miscavige’s. The lot of us, are still in a universe created by Hubbard still oxygenized by Marty and the independents. They are just different universes. I think the protest is about David Miscavige calling the universe he has created “Scientology”, when it is not. Calling himself a Sea Org Member, when he is not. Running programs that are his, not Hubbard’s. It is a form of identity theft and confuses people about what universe they in. The result is many people don’t know where they really are or what they really are.

  171. Just answering a question. This seems to be an addiction. I must be stuck in a win on getting skipped two grades.

  172. Mike, you said :

    “People lie about their success and “stats” so we have a hard time finding mentors and models against which we might rebuild our lives.”

    Tell me about it. When I first joined staff and found this to be true, and even wrote a KR on a staff person for false reporting, why it did get handled. But it didn’t handle the other stat pushes. And oh my god, what I read in PL’s vs what really is happening, I couldn’t believe it. And if you want to leave because of what you have observed vs what is written in PL’s, why that’s another mess, oh my god. You have o/w’s, must be SP, on and on. But yet the PL on leaving is simple. You get o/w’s off, sec checks, and the question asked of the person leaving is simply to you still wish to leave or continue on staff. And if he wants to still leave, the person is wished well. And if wishes now to continue on staff, the person just works up the conditions. Oh, how so corrupted it has become. But I believe in cl v orgs that may be applied. In the SO, it is different.

    Having worked in both environments, wog world and SCN world, it’s easier and more rewarding working in the wog world. If you want to leave some wog job, you just say I quit. And that is that.

  173. Thank you for that – I have been struggling to “define myself” as of late 😉

  174. thank you. And I also recommend going to a nice public area and watching people just talk to themselves, ie restaurants or a busy area. People are not bad in deed. As a matter of fact, I like them.

  175. Pass the Scotch


    The name “Ann Laws” keeps ricocheting around in my head. Is that possibly a real person (like an ex-wife perhaps), or is this the product of a delusional mind which I must stabilize before it’s too late?

    If my memory is in fact real (and not LSD-induced), was she in the G.O.?

  176. today we spring ahead.

  177. Michael – thank you for these comments. I especially appreciated the one concerned the length and breadth of time it takes to decompress from having been in the SO. From the feelings of betrayal. From learning how to be a friend and have a friend. Not something that is readily accessible in the KR world of the Sea Org. Even ones spouse, who should be ones best friend, might be the one to turn you in.

    I’ve been following a buddhist path now for almost 7 years. I was a scientologist for 20, Sea Org member for 8 – during the truly adult formative years of my life — 25 though 33.

    I got rid of all my scientology books, tapes, charts and friends sometime around 2001. Hunt and pecked looking for something spiritual that might fill the void left behind.

    In 2005 I stumbled across a buddhist center and have been actively studying since then. As an OT VIII, I found that I could more readily understand some of the “higher” teachings and thus made a rather meteoric rise through the meditation path.

    BUT — how strange — the circle seems to be coming back. Recently I went online and bought nearly all of LRH’s books — making sure to only buy those with a reprint date prior to 1980.

    And recently while reading Science of Survival an enormous chunk of my case seemed to lift right off the page. I was utterly amazed.

    I think — perhaps — that we NEEDED to be involved — to clash hard INTO scientology via the Sea Org or otherwise (theta – MEST theory) — so that we can then separate … shake ourselves off like dogs coming out of an pond and try again.

    It’s almost as if, to rephrase something from Mark Twain (“youth is wasted on the young”) : Scientology is wasted on the young.

    Scientology, LRH and the Sea Org are becoming more and more a welcome and dear part of my life. I seem to be understanding LRH’s work by circling back after nearly 20 years since my last service and over 10 years since I stopped calling myself a scientologist.

    The problem with the truth is that you just can’t forget it — the great thing about the truth is it’s always there when you look …


  178. Beautiful words, Splog.

  179. one of those who see

    Beautifully said! Actually brought me a feeling of relief!!

  180. Freedom Fighter


  181. Thank you , Mike, for a very powerful statement of some home truths.
    That ‘dark place,’ definitely won’t dissolve without friends, and that’s a fact. I’m replying to you even though I don’t know you, because your honesty has hit hard.
    Perhaps if you get time, you might gather some notes and make a book.
    Richard Kaminski

  182. Wow, Mike
    You said it so perfectly. And what you describe is how it is for anyone who has been abused, lied to, and held basically for ransom without even knowing it. Until they get out. The process is akin to the death of a family member, the stages we go through are the same. It takes special people to come into our lives, who tread softly and give of themselves with no thought whatsoever of anything in return.

  183. Yo James,
    Good to hear from you again.

  184. Let’s not use the “P” word again.


  186. So good to read these well-deserved accolades about a sterling soul! a fine celebration. Raising the chalice to Michael Laws, a man of valor. All substance.

    The greatest powers foster all life in their vicinity, and that’s Michael Laws.

    “Go on and increase in valor for this is the path to immortality.” ~Virgil

  187. “We come back”. -LRH

  188. Excellent points, Mike. I had issues with this during and after. The labels really don’t matter much anymore, unless I’m looking for an M.D. or such, maybe a certain level of auditor. People are people.

  189. Mike, it was great to meet you in TX and I love your dog! This whole thread, but especially your comments have sparked inspiration in me. Thank you.

  190. It is not your status that makes you a better person. It is not your beliefs that make you a better person. It is not even your auditing or training level or your position in this game that makes you a better person. It is your behavior.

    I get what you are saying 100%. And I agree with you 100%.

    I tend to lean on older phrases because my nose in always in books about times long ago. It seems to be the beginning of a lot of chains.

    Clearly, I chose a wrong word and put forth an item that did not belong on this list. It was not a word Marty chose to describe you, and his words said it all.

    Thank you for being a good friend and a real friend to Marty and the others who value your friendship, and wish to celebrate that at this time.

    You are right about something else. It is better to hear it during the time of your life. And it is better for people to say it while you are alive.


  191. John Fennessey

    “The problem with the truth is that you just can’t forget it — the great thing about the truth is it’s always there when you look …”

    Very true Windhorse. And from your new vantage point, you can go back and reassess the scientology material and pick out what you want, avoiding the organization. Not making the same mistake twice.
    Every painful journey had its purpose, though. We were never among those whose involvement was limited to taking classes, receiving auditing and who had plans and lives outside of scientology, never planning to get involved beyond using the material for their gain. Ones pain,loss and sacrifice is a necessary and meaningful part of ones journey.
    Now many of us come back to the material and gain reinforcement, validate your prior sacrifices and have some new cognitions from your currently higher level of understanding. Its all part of the journey.

  192. TroubleShooter

    “I hit a position of feeling invincible at one point, my support group just giving me positive feed back, handling or ignoring the negative gave me unrealistically elevated belief in my ability”

    I think the confusion between the concept of not relaying bad news versus failing to relay vital information is one of the ruins of the Scientology structure. The various flows of this are the at the crux of success and failure. From
    failed to report vital info?
    accused of reporting bad news info?
    and all the variations and flows in between can like a steady wind cause a slow erosion of a create or like a tornado bring the house down in an instant.

    It’s the reason you need to have people around you who understand the difference and are moving or are already high up the scale of responsibility enough to know. “When in doubt communicate.” a most responsible stable datum that is gagged too often due to the ramifications of “being there and communicating”, the two biggest crimes of this universe.

    If only the Vital Information Rundown wasn’t such a “lost tech”!!! GIVE ME QUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thank you for sojourn. The above data is an area of particular interest to me and has been for a long time. I respect that you feel the way you do Mike about status and labels. That labelling isn’t what Marty was doing is acknowledged. I also can grant that the above dispersal of attention was due to an effort to contribute something positive. For me the biggest misuse of labels was cob awarding Cruise with the medal of valor and saying that Tom was the most dedicated Scn’ist he knew…it’s going to take a lot more repeater technique for me to flatten that one.

  193. Marty, thats right … I remember now, she gave you your first smart phone, bringing you out of the stone ages technologically.

    Did you know that Valeska got her first real outside job at that restaurant, starting without understanding the difference between a martini and margarita, only being as familiar with wines as Red and White, within weeks she became a top performer, and a direct choice for some of the restaurants wealthier clients having larger dinner parties with 5-10,000 bills. Every time I go back, even a year later, the staff ask me about V. She made a positive impact on everyone!

  194. Boz, on the flip side, I can also say that it is not a whole lot of fun being the anvil that some of these folks break the hammer of their anger. That in itself can be self destructive. Sometimes I need to back away, sometimes I need to cool off, but I try hard not to burn any bridges. I tend to prefer the direct approach, which is not always popular, sometimes I just don’t respond for a while, and if they cared enough about the comm line to ask, I will tell them why. Things are never always the same way.

  195. LOL, I like empathy, I like compassion, and understanding, but as a dude, sympathy seems to be a word in my personal dictionary directly between shit and syphilis.

  196. Sometimes I wonder if this isn’t a western issue wrapped in the materialism issue. People so often tend to tie their success into what they have materially, their jobs, money, etc. Doesn’t matter if it is real (earned) or borrowed hopelessly on credit. The common sense stuff falls out the window, have a small house and pay it off so that you can’t loose it, vs a big house with heavy mortgage that stresses you every day to maintain and pay for.

    It is a kind of cruel joke in a society that seems to measure success as material when many of the professions that provide true value and good to improve the cultures future, like teachers, are almost marginalized economically.

    The whole staff SO thing is a different subject that some day should be a thread unto itself.

  197. scilonschools

    Funny day march 9, i was in my own battles with the first Hearing of my appeal for a conviction of harrassment (following complaint from my brother)
    The Administration of Justice in the initial case at Worthing Magistratyes court (UK) was ‘unusual’ to put it mildly!!

    Anyway a notice was sent to start the appeal at ‘big boys court’ (Crown Court), the notice gave the date and time of listing clearly as March 9, NOT BEFORE 2:00pm.

    From previous history i decided to phone during lunch break of the court listing officer on March 8, to speak to a DIFFERENT listing officer.

    How BIZZARE the listing was actually 10:30am, no change of time had been sent to me, lucky i phoned ! (if i hadn’t and turned up at 2:00pm the appeal would have been dismissed) 🙂

    Don’t you just LOVE CRIMINAL CULTS!!!!

  198. Ah, yes, your mind seems to be functioning properly. One of the former Ms Laws.

    Former GO, from DC then OSA … MAC I/C, then when we had our second child, DSA CC Dallas. Now living in Australia with her new husband.

    The scotch and LSD do not seem to have harmed your memory.

  199. George M. White

    “if you ever wanted the antithesis of DM, Mike would come closer than anyone else I know.”

    I never met you, Mike Laws, but that says it all to me. As I recall, you were friends with Biggi Reichert and her story touched me deeply.
    May all beings be well and happy!

  200. Wow, WH, I love some of the ways you view things.

    My bottom line on Scientology is “I don’t know”, agnostic. I can show what I believe is real good and positive in it, and I can show what is really bad and negative in it. If I look at the sum of the effect of 3 generations of involvement, I can’t say it is positive and worth pursuing.

    But I can’t clearly separate out just basics, for example, from the culture, from some of the organizational policies and treatment of staff and critics which I know are wrong.

    I have some question whether the subject, as packaged today can really be a religion or spiritual technology rather than a self help formula. Scientology has always been expensive, much more so today than in the past, but it was never affordable to the masses.. If you take simply the US, dividing total payroll and personal income (IRS numbers, including the upper 1%) by the population of the united states, income divided by people, it is only $25,000 or so per head. GDP is $50,000 per head. In order to progress rapidly in the COS today, you need to be in the top 1%, $340,000 per year in income for a household. Is this actually something for the common good, or an elitist club? Though there are exceptions, most income tends to be consumed with survival, so the large accumulation of wealth tends to break or perhaps violate the natural order, concentrate power, and often I have seen people lower down hurt by this … Yes we all have the potential to make more, but as a general societal trend, extreme wealth accumulation can easily hurt those lower down the food chain.

    It is part of my life, I have been indoctrinated with things like the comm formula, study tech, cycles of action etc. since I could speak. But today I can not define its proper place and role in my future life or how I see it should run in the world.

    This is the topic of many of the more stimulating conversations I have with Marty.

  201. Beautiful comment, Windhorse.
    In the time I learnd Scientology I also got familiar with Buddhist concepts and I was very amazed about many similarities in both philosophies.
    Even the Book 1 “philosophical” concept of pleasure – pain was covered in my buddhist literature.
    Due to this fact I never involved myself too deep into the administrative (squirrel Admin) part of the current church and had a good distinction between the teachings and technologies and the “Church”.

    There are administrative concepts in Scientology Buddhism could benefit from.
    And there are some concepts, Scientology needs to get rid of (mostly those “political” ones).
    I often thought to myself that no-one could get the full benefit from Scientology without knowing its roots, as Buddhism, the Tao-Te-Ching and other spiritual and philosophical teachings of this world. I see it differently now: no one will get benefit from Scientology as long as there is suppression within the Chruch – suppression of data, history, your connections and comm-lines, your political feelings and your religious beliefs and the pursue to your own truth.

    One concept you will hardly find in the (KR) Church is the Buddhist concept of Sangha (and its importance). This is what I allways looked for in Scientology and I never found this mindset since I got in – until I found this Blog and the Independents.
    BTW re Scientology religious philosophy, I mostly love the teachings from 51-62. Something changed between 60-62 and the organizational change had significant impact on the WW Scientology Movement (nothing to do with auditing technology). (But this are my personal feelings. I can’t give any data to back it up.)

  202. Mike, a couple of times in this thread you’ve mentioned your dislike of labels, and I’m with you 100%. So often over the years when meeting other Scientologists, the first and sometimes only question they would ask is “Where are you on the Bridge”, as if they then know everything that’s important about me.

    You and I have never met although we have mutual friends. From them and from this thread I get the sense of you as a very multi-faceted, multi-talented seeker of truth and creator of big effects. I am sure it would be an enriching experience to get to know you over time,and I hope to have that experience.

    Would it be easier to have just one piece of data about someone so I could put them in the proper pigeonhole ranked above or below everyone else I know? Sure, in the same sense that it would be easier to live in a cardboard box and eat from garbage cans than to hold a job and participate in the society around me. Such labels are the “homeless” approach to personal relationships.

  203. Welcome back, Windhorse!

  204. This is to Mike Laws (whom I never met):

  205. I would agree. It appears we are not alone in the whole staff SO thing. This article on a banking whistleblower is interesting. Same tactics to keep people quiet.

  206. Great things, the comm formula, study tech, cycles of action!
    And don’t forget TR 0. The pure genius of TR 0, not to speak of TR 0 Bullbait, the cycle of action, the service fac, the misunderstood word, problems and solution, overrun and rehab! Just think of all the therapies that don’t know, when to stop! And then rehab-tech. How on earth did he think of rehab tech? Or date/locate! How much do you have to know about mind and soul to think of date/locate? Or false/date stripping! Worth a Nobel Prize, for sure, just for false data stripping! Take listing and nulling, not to speak of out/int. How on earth would anybody come up with out/int?
    And all this is just a tiny fraction!
    So glad you keep talking to Marty, Mike.
    You sure sound like somebody who deserves all wins available…

  207. Under Radar: Huh? Where did I go 🙂


  208. UR: Oh duh — I get it — you are welcoming me back to scientology.

    Well — let’s not get too hasty here 🙂 — just kidding but seriously I am revisiting LRHs books. I no longer have all the OT Hatting Series and I’m not going to be getting those —

    Much of what SKM said it absolutely true regarding the community/sangha and what Mike said about being able to pull apart the culture from the actual tech.

    As far as I can tell — we all have a great deal to learn and benefit from each other as we navigate through this very interesting time, not just within this small community of scientologists/exes/antis etc but the actual dark times we are now living in.

    Buddhist call a “dark age” —


  209. Mike, I really respect your honesty and integrity. Being agnostic myself, I share many of your ideas and truly appreciate the logical yet artful way you have of expressing them.

  210. scilonschools

    What a dog’s breakfast.

    I hope the rest of the event went more to your liking.

    Eric S

  211. Aeolus

    I think that perhaps this whole label thing is not about words at all. It is about “evaluations”. More precisely “incorrect evaluations”. This can take the form of Inaccurate assumptions, or purposefully derogatory tags.

    However, many labels are simply social shorthand. They are the “subject index” to your beingnesses, doingnesses, and havingnesses. Even the labels that one chooses for himself require further communication in order to have anywhere near an accurate picture of the stories behind the labels.

    So, as in most aspects of communication, it is not the words themselves that are really the issue, it is the intention behind their use that defines their value.

    Eric S

  212. WH:“As far as I can tell — we all have a great deal to learn and benefit from each other as we navigate through this very interesting time…”

    Amen, Windhorse. Amen.

  213. Sorry, if I was hasty…
    Sincerely hope, that was all I was…
    And I didn’t mean back to any group, I meant
    back to ARC with the Tech…

  214. Thanks Poet,

    The most patient one of all is sitting 20 feet away on the couch in the next room watching TV. And she’s being doing it for almost 5 years now – she’s quite a woman. She doesn’t know I’m typing this – like Mike she’s not completely comfortable with accolades and would rather just wear her hat and get things done.


  215. I think the protest is about David Miscavige calling the universe he has created “Scientology”, when it is not. Calling himself a Sea Org Member, when he is not. Running programs that are his, not Hubbard’s. It is a form of identity theft and confuses people about what universe they in. The result is many people don’t know where they really are or what they really are.


    well said, thanks. Confusion I’d say, find out where you are. But everybody still “in”, sees the outpoints, but do nothing, as they don’t know what to do nor do they know there is an alternative choice as Indie’s, thus they do not even know they are in confusion. If they had a choice and knew of the choice, maybe they could decide, and find out where they are . But there are those 3 big carrots – ot8/9 and super power.

  216. sorry I meant OT9/10.

  217. Dividing people by class system is wrong.
    Dividing people with conflict is just as powerful, if not more so.
    Hopefully we can all rise above such measures and just become more able at positive social intercourse.

  218. Yes, Laws is the kind of guy who aides anyone when needed, gives good advice when he sees fit, shows up at a party in true spirit and is just always there — in spirit or in person keeping an eye on things. A good friend all around. XOXOXOXO Shannon

  219. scilonschools

    “I hope the rest of the event went more to your liking.”

    Not to bad WW (Eric), thanks for asking, it appears they want to re run the entire trial in the Crown Court, (another 3 days and prob $30,000.00 to the tax payer)
    Being a three day trial court space is ‘difficult’ to find and so i expect a 6 month + delay, the phrase ‘Stalling for time’ comes to mind,
    This will bring the total court days to 10, and alot of police standby time!!
    One hell of a price for a few texts messages to my brother none of which contained threats, foul language or abuse of any kind, apart from a few less than charitable comments about the RCS and a few pleas for him top reconnect with the family!!
    (I wish my brother could find the INDIES!!!!!)

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s