Some who have not experienced it may have trouble believing it, but I am sure those who have experienced it will confirm my interpretation of what follows. Here’s an order from David Miscavige’s office to ED Int (Executive Director International) and Exec Ints (whatever members of ED Int’s team who had the misfortune of listening to the rant live). The order is excerpted, as is Miscavige’s standard operating procedure, from an audio tape that records every insanity that issues from his mouth morning, noon and night while he stomps around the International headquarters of Scientology Inc. ED Int and his Exec Ints then must report written compliance, with evidence, to the order so issued. On average, ED Int receives dozens of such orders on any given day – as do many others. When Miscavige refers to the ED Int thinking ‘And then it becomes, “oh, you’re stopping it”’ Miscavige – the perceptive one he is – is accurately reporting on exactly what ED INT and the Exec Ints were thinking at that very moment. He knows that because it is a daily recurring thought of all members of Scientology Inc international management. They think it because this order here represents Miscavige’s daily op. He bats back violently at anything that is originated to him – including compliance to the insane orders he issues and even the programs that attempt to execute his dictates.
The net result is, everything he tells anyone to do never gets done because Miscavige won’t ever approve the program that is proposed to get done what he has ordered to get done. It is a vicious cycle. It is like the movie Groundhogs Day played over and over and over, day in and day out, year after year at Miscavige’s cult camp. Except his version of Groundhogs Day is not a comedy, it is the most gruesome horror picture imaginable. Miscavige very often tells International staff members and execs “oh, and you are thinking COB is stopping this” (after he sits on a submission for several months,then verbally lambasts the submitter with some incomprehensible cross order of himself) I suppose in order to make the person feel guilty and wrong and ultimately stupid for perceiving the truth. More accurately, the op Miscavige runs day in an day out is making people believe they are incapable of understanding that which is incomprehensible (his orders) in the first place. L. Ron Hubbard described the op in the lecture The Freedoms of Clear, 4 July, 1958:
“You know how people convince people they’re ignorant? They take something which cannot be understood and they say, ‘You stupid jerk. Why don’t you understand this…’
“…Don’t ever make the mistake of believing that you are ignorant simply because you do not understand the incomprehensible. Because that’s the oldest trick in the universe.”
Miscavige, live from the international headquarters of Scientology Inc.:
14 Mar 2003
TO: ED INT
EXEC INTS
RE: SH SIZE ORGS & 339R
And on Marketing, they keep coming up with a million other things, because the guy doesn’t understand it. It’s, get the Internet done, goes out and talk to Sky Dayton, comes up with a bunch of ideas, “yeah, we’ll send it out to the org. Hey, any dissemination is better than none.” No it’s not. How many more people am I willing to blow out of Scientology. And by the way, put that aside, why didn’t he program it in and do any part of his job? Tell the org staff, “Here’s how you answer.” Get out a basic program on this? Why not? Why put it out without that? Oh, I wanted to wait 3 years to get out his program and they’re just going to get a computer manual. And then it becomes, “oh, you’re stopping it.” No actually, I’m the one who’s been pounding to get it done and get a standard line in. So what were we about to put out? [CallInExecInt: A line that’s not complete.] You don’t get it yet. Your respect for org policy and what happens down there is not accurate or you would literally feel your stomach twisting right now. And to you, it’s glib. You don’t really live and breathe this purpose and know what’s happening. You should though.
Our things are supposed to forward it. And the reason it doesn’t make sense, because you don’t know what the basic purpose is. You go, “Hey, I know how to forward that great idea. I know how to really get that book line in.” What do I get from Marketing? “Yeah, we’ve got an Internet there on Scientology on-line, we’ll have a way where they can log in and we can 8C them through the books.” Now, I haven’t seen the 8C in one of those issues. In fact, what I’m trying to do is get them to want them. What did it turn into instead? “8C them.”
The only place that thinks they need 8C is here. I plan on getting people and saying, there it is and they go, “whoa, I want it.” But nobody there would even push it and 8C them anyway. You already know that. That’s what’s so stupid. Marketing—you’re supposed to create want.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Hello all,
Sorry I missed the previous boat, I was composing my message when the topic changed, so this is off topic but I guess I could be forgiven?
On the subject of mothers, I would like to validate all Mums as the heroins of the world and would also like to validate mine (RIP) as my best friend ever and perhaps one of the toughest, most dedicated Sea Org members I had the honour to work with during my years in the SO.
So I hereby beat my drum about my wonderful Mum and friend. We worked shoulder to shoulder to put Mexico and Latin America on the Scientology map (with our sweat and tears) and I am very proud to be her son (only child).
FLAG PROGRAMMES BUREAU
Issa del Campo
cc CPO Flag
Flag Latin American Programs Chief
12 February, 1973
COMMENDATION REPORT
Issa del Campo, Mexican Scientologist
Issa del Campo has contributed almost 30 major translations of
LRH’s books into Spanish. She has made one of the most major and
significant contributions to Scientology’s expansion for the entirety
of the Spanish speaking world, almost 1/5th of the world’s popula-
tion. This has greatly enhanced the speed with which the Scientology
Translations Unit can complete the task of putting LRH’s works into
the Spanish language, due to her long years of hard work, devotion
and dedication to Scientology Technology and mostly for LRH Commodore and Founder.
Issa is highly commended for this remarkable task by Flag and
by our Scientologists in Mexico. Her dedication will be well marked
amongst those who have helped Ron to clear the planet.
Ens.Liz Ausley
Flag Latin American Programs
Chief
I wonder if amongst the old timers here there is someone who know about her.
Alex
I thought the last memo was nearly illiterate and completely bizarre. This is orders of magnitude beyond even that torrent of verbal diarrhea. I can’t imagine how even somebody else at Int Base who knew the context of the discussion could make sense of what he said, much less some lower-level person attempting to implement this “order.”
This literally looks like somebody went through a pile of random memos and grabbed a couple sentences at random and glued them together. It’s like ransom notes by psychotic killers in low-budget horror flicks where each word is cut from a magazine and pasted to the paper so the handwriting can’t be traced. It’s actually strikingly reminiscent of what psychiatrists call “word salad,” a type of meaningless speech that’s often indicative of organic brain disorders (i.e., physical damage to the brain, not “behavioral” disorders like narcissism). Not trying to suggest that Miscavige actually has some sort of organic brain illness, just that it is so reminiscent of this phenomenon that it is very unsettling.
You couldn’t write a memo like this in any successful corporation and expect to keep your job. If I, in the corporate world, got a memo like this from my boss, I would seriously wonder if he wrote this while suffering a stroke. It would be beyond bizarre. And if I got a second memo like this, I’d go to his boss and say that there’s a serious problem. And I’d be right — anybody who saw a memo like this would wonder about the health or mental stability of the author. They wouldn’t even try to actually comply with it; they’d try to get the author some help. Or, if he wasn’t mentally ill, to get him fired.
This craziness is clearly driven by Miscavige’s limited thinking skills and his lack of education and “real world” perspective. It has obviously paralyzed the organization on many different fronts.
But my question is: if you get rid of Miscavige, is there any hope that the organization can recover? In the 25 years since he took over, he’s purged anybody who has dared to question even the smallest thing he says. Is there anybody left with enough common sense or real-world company experience to try and put the organization back together in the even that DM is hit by lightning? Or is it too late?
It’s amazing that his speeches at events are a vast improvement over his orders, in terms of saying things that people could possibly understand. And his speeches are almost undecipherable.
Marty, I read this 4 times and I have no idea what he was saying, what he wants done, what point he was trying to make, what the objective was, how I could have complied with it. It hurt to read it 4 times. His orders weren’t always that bad were they, they didn’t seem that crazy in the 80s and early 90s, were they?
Thanks Marty. This is a typical example of the incomprehensible gibberish that monkey emits morning, noon and night before he goes to bed for his 9 hours of sleep, while everyone else gets between 3 to 6.5 hours of sleep.
Of course what is never included into transcripts of his hourly rants is the obscenities and notes of assaulting people (which reached a zenith in 2003). Motherf**ker, stupid cu@t, SP, etc. etc.
Below his continual artillery barrage invalidations, accusations and wrong indications which he uses to confuse everyone, Miscavige’s entire mockup is everyone is too stupid to get anything done… which assumes disseminating Scientology is difficult. No, what is difficult — actually impossible — is getting anything effective done with Miscavige in the way, shooting down every valuable on-Policy beneficial proposal.
As an example of that, there was my own 1989 proposal to correct book prices in pioneer areas where I discovered to my horror, the price of a single hardback DMSMH book was equivalent to the average worker’s monthly income. I sent it to MEI (Ronnie Miscavige) who thought it was great and DM ripped it to shreds. There are hundreds and even thousands more examples.
DM is the WHO for the subversion of International Scientology.
DM seems to equate the Internet with Sky Dayton. How 1995 of him.
Ahhhh, the memories! Seems like only yesterday my wits were tied in knots from significances flying off the ever-spinning Mind of Miscavige. Thanks for the trip down Mindfuck Land, Marty. It had a very salutary effect because I realized THAT was THEN and THIS is NOW! Now is much better than Then.
Yes, it was a reverse evolution from some form of human toward ape.
He doesn’t walk around the base with a teleprompter loaded with Shermanisms.
Pardon me ?? what he say ??
John, great description: “It’s like ransom notes by psychotic killers in low-budget horror flicks where each word is cut from a magazine and pasted to the paper so the handwriting can’t be traced”. To answer you question, I’ve been saying ‘no’ for three years. The more I watch the sinking the more certain I am of that answer. He’s had nothing left for years but certified products of the op I quoted from LRH.
Holy crap that’s gibberish. Just add some force on top and expletives (as Thoughtful said) and it’s outright torture! Add more force on top by making everyone M9 this crap and it’s super-engramatic. I can only assume things have gotten much worse, because nothing stays the same and DM has not improved his condition…so anybody still directly dealing with this whack job must be the walking dead, literally. Imagine the effort it takes to even get out of bed in the morning with all this insanity swirling around on your head and your body. Suppressive, oppressive, disgusting, cruel, inhumane, torture, stress – leading to illness and injury. 😦
You just insulted a lot of decent apes out there.
What I find most striking about this ‘memo’ is the amount of utterly venomous hate this sociopath spews.
This reminds me of one of my few observations of POB on the Freewinds in 1991 during the Maiden Voyage event where I saw him screaming at an older musician during a rehearsal. DM was having an extremely loud psychotic break and the recipient of his scathing hate began balling and sobbing like a child.
I leaned over to my fellow assistant bosun and whispered, “Who’s he screaming at?”
To my shock he answered, “His father.”
I quietly disappeared as quickly as I could.
Great write up John P.
OMG. Speechless
I get somatics getting reminded of those dispatches. COB’s communicator would come down, all dressed in a black uniform on her red little Honda and deliver a stack of the latest “COB Dispatches”.
Everyone had to drop what they were doing and immediately read them. If you had been at a meeting which I often was, as part of the event crew, and you were personally addressed on that dispatch you had to M9 it (Word Clearing Method 9 – a method where you read the material out loud and if you stutter, mis-read or otherwise manifest any non-optimum behavior you have to stop and look up and clear a definition of a word.)
I had no problem doing an M9 on LRH materials but to read “naturally” on a COB dispatch was like doing downhill slalom around hand-grenades while ducking someone shooting paint balls at you at the same time. Marty’s quote above is very apt as the Qual Division was indoctrinated into supervising you that COB’s word was law and if it seemed incomprehensible to you, you must have a misunderstood word.
So you end up clearing words for the hell of it, just to satisfy your Qual word clearer and eventually make it down the hill with your mind full of paint splatter and shrapnel…
It is ironic reading these dispatches in a new unit of time and seeing the various people commenting, critiquing and analyzing them as COB used to say over and over again that he was the ONLY one who could write copy, who could edit copy, who could come up with the right wording, i.e. he presented himself as the ne plus ultra grammatician and Doctor of writing style and form.
It reminded me of an interesting experience I had in the fall of 1999. At the time I had to present a CSW (Completed Staff Work – a proposal send to a correct, higher authority for approval) to DM for the permanent sound installation for events at the Ruth Eckerd Hall.
Prior to 1999 my senior had been Denise Summerville (Friend) who was the ultimate queen in micromanaging outside of Lisa Allen. If I had to do a CSW to DM she would edit every sentence I wrote and the final outcome was always a PR, cover-her-ass, saying-nothing semantic diarrhea. However, in 1999 she got busted and this time I didn’t have anyone micromanaging my submission. It was straight from me to DM at that time.
I got the submission back approved and DM said something to the tune of it being the only proper CSW he had received that entire year and that he was going to bring it to the useless management execs and show them my proposal as an example of a proper CSW.
Of course at the time I was flattered, but in the same breath I found it very odd that a young punk, who wasn’t native in English, having no admin training beyond staff status II and Vol 0 would be able to put together something better than anyone in Management. This thought bothered me as I couldn’t make any sense of it.
I finally concluded that my CSW was brief but at the same time comprehensive if he wanted to look at attachments. I knew what I was talking about and my research was complete and backed up by proper data. I spoke from my heart with no ass-covering or writing “to get it approved”. So, the problem isn’t the competence of the management people but either they are so afraid of communicating that everything sounds like ass-covering, or they don’t understand the subject they are proposing, or DM must personally hate them all.
At the time I never really settled on which one was more correct but after reading this and now having an outside perspective, I believe the reasons were all 3 combined. I knew my sound installation and nothing had to be ordered about it, i.e. I had no weird instructions on my lines, but if I had to write a CSW to “comply” to the dispatch above it could never be approved as I would never know what to propose other than just echoing what DM already said – which most people did, and, always got shot for doing just that.
If they were brave however and proposed their own idea they would still get shut for not doing what he said. It was a lose lose situation no matter which way you went.
I was lucky for not having to much instruction from him for a while, but then in 2005 and 2006 he started to micro manage mine and surrounding areas as well. Denise got back on the lines and the micro-managing OL, Lisa Allen, was over Denise so at that point all hope was lost.
Denise must have been one of the most fake and ass-covering execs I’ve ever met and she is to this date the head of the Audio Division, so that shows what personalities “survive”. No Sea Org mixers left – all done by Pro’s. She must be 250 pounds by now feeding on all of the Pro’s leftover snacks, which was one of her favorite past time activities.
God what memories…
Wouldn’t is be great if some cameraman at Gold recorded some of DM’s foul and insane utterances and put them into an event for the world to see.
Ahhhh, Thought for the day.
Total nonsense and gobbledygook salted with outright lies and untruths.
Outright lies and untruths such as: “The only place that thinks they need 8C is here. I plan on getting people and saying, there it is (the Basics) and they go, whoa, I want it.” If that were true, Miscavige, why did you have every able bodied Sea Org member, including the entirety of management and all Class V org and mission staff off post for months doing nothing BUT 8cing people into buying Basic packages, not just one package but ten or twenty?
I like these “Just Another Day at the Int Base Torture Facility and Implant Station” inside looks. It really shows how insane that place is…
Also, Miscavige’s eighth grade education really shows here (and that’s insulting eighth graders everywhere), but more than that, it seems that he also stopped growing and maturing at the time he dropped out of night grade as well.
What a poseur Miscavige is, no wonder he can’t live without his Shermanspeak-written speeches for him, straight down and vertical….
I’ve never seen a better real-live example of “A anti-social person speaks in generalities.” What the hell is “it”?!!! Who the hell are “they” and “them”? It’s utterly incomprehensible because he’s using tons of pronouns and I can’t tell what the hell he’s referring to.
Wow! Thanks for this story, Tom. So much rage and hate in one human soul and body is hard to comprehend.
JM
+1
More gibberish.
The only thing I got was at the end where he seems to be saying that he wants to create “want for the books instead of having to 8-c people to get them”. But it really does boil down to keeping everything incomprehensible. Also he can cover his ass and he probably thinks that people are thinking “Wow, dm is a super genius and he is probably channeling LRH”.
Sorry dm, I think you are a rat bastard and I can’t wait to see you crash and burn.
LOL! Brilliant…
What’s “an internet”?
What I could clearly understand was this:
– because the guy doesn’t understand it
– why didn’t he program it in and do any part of his job?
– You don’t get it yet
– Your respect for org policy and what happens down there is not accurate or you would literally feel your stomach twisting right now
– And to you, it’s glib
– You don’t really live and breathe this purpose and know what’s happening
– And the reason it doesn’t make sense, because you don’t know what the basic purpose is
– What did it turn into instead? “8C them.”
– That’s what’s so stupid
Inval, Inval, Inval.
I don’t know of any person talking like this.
You see his type 3 shinning through this despatch.
Everybody is after him !
Marty, Without your translation I cannot understand this memo. Believe me, I am very literate. It looks like the babbling of a two years old, who just learned to speak, but has not yet learned to construct a proper sentence. What a nut case!
This is why nothing ever gets done at Int. Only overt products.
Its reminds me of the space ship captain in “The Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy” who used to torture his prisoners by reading them his poetry.
John P: “You couldn’t write a memo like this in any successful corporation and expect to keep your job.”
You also couldn’t stick your executives in a garbage can for 12 hours with a Lesbo sign around their neck, pour cold water on them and have the rest of the staff screaming obsenities at them and expect to keep your job. Such is the ecclesiastical power of a madman and the clapping seals who adore and fear him.
Yeah, we’ve got an Internet there on Scientology on-line I LOL’d at this. The rest is LULWAT?
It’s like David Miscavige doesn’t do joined up thinking. Seriously this guy needs to go on an introspection run down indefinitely; not sure it’d work though, he seems to run on a feedback loop, just keeps on restimulating himself.
Les, I really don’t think he is adored by many. Fear, yes, I can see that. He’s not a likeable person in his present valence. Who likes an insane madman? Who likes a bully? Who likes a tyrant? Who likes someone who will build you up one moment and throw you to the wolves the next? What people THINK is adoration is probably a debased, terrified emotion of propitiation.
Or rewrite every sentence 25 times… This is pure, unadulterated Miscavigespeak(tm). His speeches are written by Dan Sherman and are Shermanspeak(tm) — two different languages.
Perfect Dan.
Koko, the gorilla, can make speak far more comprehensibly (in Sign Language) than the above by several orders of magnitude.
In one of the most priceless moments of non-human communication and reasoning I’ve ever seen, when Robin Williams was there to visit with Koko on an educational T.V. program, she went to her shelf of entertainment videos and pulled out “Flubber” (If I recall correctly) in its case and brought it back to Robin and her handler. She showed him the cover and then pointed at him and signed “Is this you?” and seemed mighty pleased when he signed back “yes.”
The above is clearly far beyond the capabilities of Dear Leader.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Vogon poetry is so terrible, that most people faced with the choice of listening to it or going out the airlock without a spacesuit choose to go out the airlock.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Material on “battered wife syndrom” and Science of Survival applies here for a full understanding.
Marty — Anyone who has ever seen one of the transcripts of Miscavigespeak will never forget it.
Of course, in addition to his “thought” process tainted by evil intentions and the conviction that “everyone” is out to get him, is the editing required for this to be put into writing. It is not just deleting the expletives interjected every third or fourth word, it is deleting the rambling sidecomments — right in the middle of a “sentence” that would go something like this: “Did you know that Marc Yager had his cock in Guillaume’s mouth last nite til the cum was running down his chin?” That question was posed to whoever the most innocent female in the room was — in front of Yager and GL in order to add to the “shock” value.
Though Tori and Frank were assholes, I used to pity them having to try and transcribe the gibberish interspersed with vulgarities, and somehow come up with something that they would be able to defend if it ever “flapped” about how they had “mistranscribed COB’s comm.” Because frankly, oftentimes there was little difference between the gibberish and the vulgarities….
Ah yes, Vogon poetry. The 3rd worst poetry in the universe. Slightly easier on the nervous system than DM’s despatches. For those who have never had the benefit, here is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz in full fow:
“Oh freddled gruntbuggly/thy micturations are to me/As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.
Groop I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes. And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don’t!”
just for HIS pocket haydn, it turns out!
Yeah, morelivesthanacat — that question struck me, too.
Does DM not know that there is _one_ Internet? So it is “the” (not “an”) Internet?
Maybe DM has Internet confused with things that can be plural — web pages, websites, ISPs, IP addresses, nodes, servers, etc.
But having more than one Internet would defeat the whole concept — which is to have all information accessible (though sometimes with restrictions) over one, unified system.
Nice to see well directed venom comin’ thru’ Tony!
Yeah! second that. crash and burn. SWINE! (added)
Very touching Alex.
You’re a good son.
…And still doing some form of this SO all hands materials phone crush sales over 4 years later.
Whoa!!
I have no idea how you guys could live around that nut job!! Damn!
Oh my head hurts. The stream of consciousness in Faulkner’s The Sound and The Fury made more sense than this!
Sharing stories on submissions: One of the editors after making a submission had blown. we couldn’t figure out what happened that caused this very sudden departure. one of the execs in the area whispered to me that after that particular editor spent weeks working on his submission, Miscavige’s reply to his submission on the “Approved” or
“Disapproved” line was “F–K YOU”. The “Pope” of Scientology had spoken.
Perhaps it is simply TIME. “THE” TIME.
Time to audit out the friggin’ ” David Miscavige Engram.”
We’d all be a hellava’ lot better off, for sure!
Any C/S available? Without accompanying charge “attached?”
Calvin.
Here’s an old old page I had up about Sky’s Scn connections. I put it up in the mid-90s and kept it up to date until 2001, but it was dated even then.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000305131602/http://www.deirdre.org/scnverses/earthlink.html
Sky had said that he wasn’t that connected into Scn in response to my page, but it’s clear from DM’s mentions of him that Sky was trying to put distance between himself and Scn due to heavy criticism of Earthlink.
You are right, every normal person in what these Sea Org staffers would call WOG organization, getting a memo like this would the first time have a chuckle and throw it away or present it to co-workers for entertainment.
The second it would go to his boss and HR and the third time the originator of such a memo would have most likley a leaving interview in HR.
I am just amazed that a group of Sea Org members does not walk into his office and just handle the guy out of power.
If this type of insanity is produced on a daily basis and nobody steps up to confront this idiot and kicks him out it really answers your last question. Obviously there is nothing left being worth salvaged.
Mike L.,
with all due respect, I found it very very easy to get the message of Miscavige’s rant.
His message was :
you are WRONG !
I am RIGHT !
you are STUPID !
I am SMART !
you are INFERIOR !
I am SUPERIOR !
you are GUILTY !
I am INNOCENT !
you are BAD !
I am BENEVOLENT !
Some kind of line plot.
Man!! Mike, I totally believe what you say here but how did you guys rationalize that this guy was sane? Or maybe you didn’t but were just locked into a bad situation.
As a public I used to rationalize weird shit from him by thinking he had confidential LRH advices that us mere mortals were not privy to.
It never ceases to amaze me what Scientology has devolved to under dm’s reign. He is the Caligula of Scientology!!
Tom,
I was on that trip. It was this circumstance that Ron, his father, came to me and the rest of the band to relay DM’s “requests” for new songs to be learned. Ron said the top of DM’s list had “I Want Your Sex”, by George Michael. I reflexively responded “Are you out of your fucking mind – I am NEVER playing that song, EVER”.
Poor Ron, he was stunned and weakly repoked, “But, but, it’s for COB”.
For some not-comprehensible “reason”, the musicians were in bad odor with Dave on that trip. It didn’t matter what, as it would make no sense anyway, and all that mattered was Dave wasn’t happy with whatever he decided he wasn’t happy with. The musicians caught it, and Ron was the target.
Poor Ron, caught between a rockslam, Dave, and a hard place, me not going for Dave’s nonsense.
I was eventually declared to have committed a suppressive act for refusing to comply to “COB’s” order. My release from the madness. Ron has continued there in that situation and suffered all its horrible consequences. So tangled and confused and the only escape in his short-sight, death.
Or maybe…
The light is kept on Ron Miscavige, by those that know. Us.
JUST RECEIVED!!! CONFIDENTIAL TEXT FROM ANONYMOUS SOURCE AT THE BASE:
11 May 2012
FROM: COB (UNEDITED)
TO: THE SP FLUNKY HOLE
CC: TOM
RE: GETTING THOSE SQUIRRELS
And on those fu@#ing Squirrels…HEY! YOU! (water bottle flies thru air, BOINK! “OW!”) YOU of all people should know…hey, did you just blink at me?! SECURITY! RPF! R-P-f%@#ing EFF!!! Ok, now about that Internet…I mean Squirrel thing…GODDAMN IT! F@#%ing SPs all around me! I was told they were under control, lied to as usual by you slithering slimy snakes sucking off my insouciance (slight edit by Dan Sherman) that they were shriveling up, and I remember it well because that was the day I smashed the water bottle so hard into Heber’s head he actually woke up!
So…I want a report, I want video, I want audio, I want an ice cream right now, I was told this and I met with David Mayo and I gave him another sizable check and I relayed this information to you morons, you turd-buckets, you worthless bunch of quivering flunky pie-heads…Hey! Where’s my GODDAMN ICE-FRICKING-CREAM??! Flunk! Non-Compliance! SPs! Shit-for-Thetans! Quintuple-Treason! 100X Amends! Plus Flunky Tax! The reports I’ve gotten all suck. I never get a report. The ones I get I don’t get. The ones I don’t get I got. I have to have to know. I already know this.
Who here didn’t get what I just said? If I see any hands raised I’m going to drive my fist straight through your head into the idiot behind you’s head and then you’ll all fall over like the idiot putrid imbeciles you all have been practicing to be for decades! (silence while mandatory COB LaserStare session occurs)
FREECKIN’ IDIOTS!!! WHERE’RE MY RODS?? GIMMEE! GIMMEE! GIMMEE! (silence while mandatory COB ROD Charge-Release session occurs)
(Sigh) Ahhhh! Ok! Alright! Arg! Ha! I’m COB. I’m going to come up with a plan…since no one else can, to obliterate from the face of this earth, those stinking rotten no good f@%#ing rat bastard of an excuse for a hog-pile mess of turds who’ve left the Church and abandoned us and gave us the finger and don’t pay anymore and I hate them I hate them I hate them…come on, repeat after me, “I HATE THEM”
(group chanting)
“I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM!”
Ok, ok, ok, ok, ok, enough! Jeezuz, I have to think of everything. So, I want some reports and if I get any, everybody’s going to the SP Flunky Hole’s SP Flunky Hole! On Secret Double SP Probation! With their tongues! In their underwear! At midnite! Blindfolded! (COB edit note here: Make sure these flunkies double-clay demo and method-nine-expanded this part, twice) I learned something from the Debbie Experience and I didn’t get one report from anyone else that was issued before or after I had earlier received all those off-target suppressive ones that had elaborate and stupid plans and programs and too many projects and none of it, not even the ones that were in a gift box with what some idiot thought was my favorite Scotch. Some 1.1 SP thought he could covertly grab my attention with that bottle of swill…wait…actually, I liked that Scotch. Who gave that to me? You? Ok, your plan is approved, retroactively. You’re in charge of this now. Make sure that program is resubmitted to me, same way, same routing, same Scotch. I’ll rush it through my lines. Make sure it’s complete.
So…last topic…who the hell released my f%@#ing 2003 memos to Rathsquirrel??? (interruption for COB LaserStare to take effect)
Who? Who? Who? Who? AH! Bunch of panty-waist dillitante 1.1 Ass-Pees! I thought so! Ok, YOU figure this out. I want a report. I want to see fists flying! Hair pulling! Eye gouging! BLOOD! Crying! Confessions through the nose! Are you in this for blood or not??! I want confessions! I want to know the WHO! The crimes! The WHO! And the crimes! And the withholds! And how I missed them! And I want earlier/similars! And I want ethics change! And I’d better see some friggin’ cognitions that aren’t worthless. Let’s get some discipline in around here for chrissakes! How come none of you SPs use ethics, like I do? I’d better not hear about anyone sleeping or eating until this is resolved! (WHIZ! Water bottle flies through air. BWUMP!! “YAAAAAH!” heard) I smelled out ethics starting over there in your head! I know what you were starting to gear up with one tiny molecule to think with, that I, COB, the only one in the universe capable of doing anything anywhere, is “trying to stop” things as usual. That’s what you all think, don’t you??! You whiny little cock-roach-infested gag-a-maggot rotten Hollywood Sidewalk worm-scrappings!! You’d all better get your ethics in or you’ll NEVER get out of the SP Flunky Hole’s SP Flunky Hole! In fact, you’re all going to wind up in the SP Flunky Hole of the SP Flunky Hole’s Flunky Hole anyway, so let’s just cut right to the f@#%ing chase and not be abberated about it, you’re all assigned right now and indefinitely to the Back of the Closet of the Flunky Hole of the SP Flunky Hole of the SP Flunky Hole’s Hole. There! Done! Next!
***************
End of of Text
Ulf,
I remember one time trying to get Denise to study and undestand electronic theories, physics stuff, basic material on audio that she needed to confront, and not just for audio, but for Scientology. She said she wasn’t interested.
I offered to help her with Word Clearing. Nope, it was all too complicated.
She hasn’t a clue what Scientology actually is, what it describes, what it encompasses. I can well imagine her as an “exec”. Holy freakin’ cats. What a nightmare.
Tony — yeah, its hard to believe isnt it. I tried to lay it out in a posting here called “Why We Stay” and Dan Koon added a piece of brilliant insight with his story about the frog being slowly boiled and staying in the pot — the decline is a gradual process. You accept one outness, and then another on top of that, then a bit worse gradient and eventually you are being boiled alive.
I want your sex…ewwwww…how low-life of him to expect master musicians like y’all to play that!
The only “internet” that DM knows is the one in his rectal canal. A web to catch whatever it is he jams in there to “cleanse”. So, to him there is “an internet”, there are various “internets”.
Yikes, that’s waaaay too much imagery. Nevertheless, I’m posting it. Cause I’m a debbil.
Ulf, that sux. M9ing psychobabble is suppressive. Glad you got out alive!
+1 Somebody record the psychobabbler – please!
A telling story, Freespirit. More than any other historical figure I can think of, this guy reminds me of CALIGULA: Immature, ignorant, vicious, wanton, pompous, and unbelievably psychotic and cruel.
OMG. That’s not even funny. I couldn’t FAKE that kind of “talk” if I wanted to.
Omitted: KTL
Omitted: Student Hat
Omitted: Any tech, as you can’t have it if you can’t duplicate. And this “communication” is anything BUT that.
This guy is the Anti-Ron, as opposed to the anti-Christ. I kinda think that’s even worse. If there were an anti-Christ, we’d know what the answer is. An Anti-Ron… that’s just plain scary. Ron was brilliant! This guy is equally… but in the opposite direction.
There was a point in my staff career that for a period of weeks I got to read despatches from Miscavige to one of my seniors. My impression of them was that of a whining spoiled hypercritical spoiled infant ranting in near-incoherent, diva-to-the-nth-degree, babblespeak about something he did not even have to be involved in, and which would have been handled faster and better if he kept his insanity out of it. This definitely gave me a little push on my long slow trajectory out the door. It was so much the antithesis of real Scientology and LRH that I can’t even describe it. I’m glad I never got any closer to this crap than that.
There is a pathway for an attempt to put the organization back together – for which, see savescientology.com
Whether or not it is too late, is an open question. Some believe it is too late, others don’t. For sure there is a massive overhang of accumulated liabilities in the form of abuse, by-passed charge, financial misrepresentation, misallocation of resources, undue pressure, lies, you name it. Any attempt at putting it back together would have to deal with all that.
On the other hand, there are many assets too. Unfortunately at this point, most of those are mest (physical stuff, buildings, cash etc). Also there is the tax exemption which some consider a big deal. But the theta (life) that was once there would have to be re-created from zero. Or, more accurately, somewhere minus zero.
Putting it back together would be a massive undertaking, arguably not worth it, since the Crown Jewels – the tech – is now available to anyone who wants it, outside of the control of the organization. And that cat is not going to be put back into the bag.
Hey Jim,
What I witnessed was a sadistic spectacle. The couple of other times I was in the lunatic’s presence he came off as a pompous strutting runt in elevator shoes.
By the way ahoy there mate. Weren’t you the drummer?
Well, at least you guys didn’t boil to death. Just got a little burned and nowyou are enjoying life while all those inside are still cooking.
I guess I already knew the answer, but it is still shocking when you recount the crap that comes out of the chimps mouth. If I had ever said anything like that to an SO member I would have had the FPRD program from hell. Quite the double standard.
Standard tech is standard tech! 🙂
Dm is quite the monmument to the cowards.
Very funny as usual RS. Have you been channeling im again?
Somebody should go to Cisco Networking classes. “internet” means “internetwork”, which is a multiple networks interconnected. There are many thousands of government, military, industrial and commercial “internets” in the world which are neither connected to nor accessible from the singular public “Internet”.
That having been said. I very much doubt Darth Midget or his transcriptionist are informed of the above, so “an internet” is probably an error as it appears in the quoted dispatch.
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
If the site implies a purpose of putting it back together, its author has done a tremendous disservice to have others put their necks out for that purpose. He is not even willing to stick his own out – and stand up – even though he’s been declared for some time now.
Yep. It has an aesthetic too it that dm’s prose will never have.
Yep, on that gig I played drum set, Charlie Rush on all sorts of percussion and Mickey Estrada layed down a “tumbao” that would inspire any live being to move in physical resonance with that groove.
We had moments, the three of us, that were the real thing, total comm and impeccable funk.
The KTL is a stiff gradient for this guy. After his stuck picture is handled, he needs tutoring on the alphabet. Right now, he would not be able to even follow the KTL brochure.
By the way, Marty and Mike and the others that were at Int. Kudos to you. I would go psycho and punch him after one week of this psycho babble.
Haydn,
That line is one that struck clear for me “I plan on getting people and saying, there it is and they go, ‘whoa, I want it'”.
The utter fallacy of David Miscavige being able to sit down or talk with some person, say the UPS Driver, the waitress at a restaurant, the local alderman, a guy on a walk in the park, just regular people, and with real care for them and an intest in their experience, listen, ask them questions, grant them originations, and when the slip effortlessly “in session” interested in their own case and willing to talk to you, you help them spot some something that helps them on the way to their own truth.
David Miscavige means others harm overtly and covertly, and that one sentence is as covert as they come. Utter bullshit Dave. You plan on nothing else but the harm of others, all the while claiming their best interests. You are Suppressive.
Ditto Dan & Mike.
Oh boy, insanity sure is tough to confront. Goobity gook apparently is his highest echelon of communication. A slap in the face would be far easier to understand.
It seems perculiar that the further down the line his comm goes the saner it appears – if that’s possible? So at least the deluded minons are trying. Such a waste.
Very good point Dan about improvements to date.
Then – I thought the spinning was me and introverted further to see what I missed.
Now – I laugh about the DM’s craziness and mindfucks which is so obvious and pathetic.
Tony — you got it man. Your duplication is perfect.
” In fact, what I’m trying to do is get them to want them. ”
Dave, you are an epic fail. “They” DON’T want them. They don’t want your books, your CDs, your services, your buildings, your Div 6 Videos, your Ideal Staff, your speeches, your presence, you.
You are in fact repugnant. A reverse, inverse of a theta being. You are entheta, it is rejected.
If Scientology actually worked to improve conditions in life, then a psycho like Miscavige could not have risen to Mission Janitor, let alone “Chairman of the Board”.
That he has been COB for 30 years, and all anyone can do about it is natter about him on the Internet, proves that Scientology can’t even improve Scientology, let alone any part of the world outside it.
David Miscavige is proof that Scientology does not work, and it never did. I wonder when you guys are going to finally realize that.
What a total asswipe.
What a great post!
It’s very interesting to understand the action/trick of trying to make one think he is ignorant because he can not understand the incomprehensible…it is typical of someone whose mind is so spun around as chaotically as David Miscavige’s mind is.
This also gets pushed down the lines and shows up in koolaid drinkers when they come to his defense. After hours of someone unable to produce for me the LRH references (because they don’t exist) on how the public should buy multi-million dollar properties for the Orgs, or how the course supervisors should be running Bingo games for fundraising on a Saturday night instead of making auditors…the final, attempted handling went into saying, “you just don’t understand the whole picture.”
Truth is…I DID understand…I understood it was insane!
This is a tad off post here but I wanted to note that the Freewinds is sending out this friendly communication to find out what their public has been doing ……… or not doing. I thought it should have a line added for
6) Reading Marty’s Blog
a)How much time per week do you spend reading or commenting on this blog?
b) Do you disseminate the site to other Scientologists? If you answered yes, about how many people would you say you communicate with?
Hello (persons first name)
We want to update our records of what you have been doing this last year. It has been one year since this form has been sent out so I would like to get any updates. Please completely fill it out.
Yearly Participation Update
Name:
1. Are you connected to an OTC? If so:
a. Which OTC?
b. OTC hat?
c. Approximately how much time spent per week?
d. Do you report your stats every week?
2. Are you on org and mission staff? If so:
a. Which org or mission?
b. Post?
c. Full-time or part-time?
3. Do you FSM? If so:
a. Are you full-time or part-time?
b. About how much time do you spend on this a week?
4. Do you work in one of our other groups? If so:
a. Which one?
Field Auditor
Field Group
TWTH Group
Say No to Drugs
CCHR
Criminon
Narconon
WISE
Applied Scholastics
b. What is the name of the group?
c. What is your function?
d. How much time do you spend a week on this?
5. Any other 4th dynamic activity not listed above which you are doing?
6. Where are you on your Basics Books and Lectures Courses?
7. Anything else you want to tell me?
Thank you!
Ml, Maggie OT Ambassador I/C Int
I didn’t know Ron Miscavige left the body! when was that Jim?
All this non sequitur phrases and non sensical jumble of words coming from his lunatic mind are just so opposite to the order laid down by LRH. A man who makes no sense to no one as opposed to the man who made so much sense to so many.
I am so glad I studied LRH and didn’t study COB this life time. Lol! I am so unhappy about the staff around him and those who have to study and comply to his mumbo jumbo orders. It must be a total nightmare to be next or around him trying to give sense to the non sensical.
I am very proud to be an Indie and to have challenged and opposed that non sequitur little tyrant this life time. Makes my day to see how completely insane he is and this is my reward… lol! I had understood there was nothing there to understand from this man, just that he was there for some other purpose.
DM you are nuts and more and more people can now really say the only thing they really understood about you:
you are completely Incomprehensible, not just an awful writer.
Yeah Jim, make that: “…an ol’ debbil…called..LUV… “
When David Miscavige talks, sudden nonsequitur sentences come out of nowhere plop in the middle of someplace. It’s as if more than one person is speaking from his mouth, and they take turns having the floor..
Little pop ups such as:
“How many more people am I willing to blow out of Scientology.”
Gross in and of itself are the following; I would never follow a “leader” who mouthed his crapola –>
“Your respect for org policy and what happens down there is not accurate or you would literally feel your stomach twisting right now.” – David Miscavige
“You don’t really live and breathe this purpose and know what’s happening.” – David Miscavige
“You already know that. That’s what’s so stupid. ” – David Miscavige
Just like George Bush is proof to Democrats, and Barack Obama is proof to Republicans, that the idea of a democratic republic is doomed. Deep, fella.
D.M. is straight from a Rod Serling “Twilight Zone”
Tooky(or is that you, Dave?), we can’t realize that because we just don’t understand the whole picture. It’s because we’re too stupid.
I think I got it. Shermanspeak(tm) is speak made to sound like it is coming from DM, from his thoughts in PT right at the event, and not from a teleprompter. And like he really knows what is going on. Like for example “and if that is not enough, we did 200,000 hours of Book 1 and on top of that, just to blow you away, we had another 200,000 hours not even recorded in the stats and lets not forget the blah blah blah, and if that doesn’t make you stand up and cheer, then this fact will certainly give you a blowdown, blah blah blah”.
I remember at an event once discussing DM’s speech with another friend. My friend was just in awe of how DM speaks. And we talked about it for a little. And I asked my friend I wonder what his case level is? His training level? My friend didn’t know. We assumed he was OT 8 or maybe even above. We figured he ran the joint, he must be highly trained and audited.
Thanks Marty for shedding some light and truths.
It’s summed up pretty good here:
http://www.scientology-cult.com/connecting-the-dots.html
When looking a the current state of the Church, and then trying to duplicate DM “vision”, I am reminded of a quote from “The Biggest Secret” by David Icke:
“I don’t know which I dislike more, the world controlled by the Brotherhood, or the one you want to replace it with.”
I’ll also chime in here. The fact is most of us joined the SO when LRH was still alive and it was a different scene then. Not perfect, but still a thousands times better than the nightmare gumbo it became by the 2000s. Locked into the crock pot, with no way out other than leave your family and the SO and (we thought) any hope for moving up the Bridge… plus other BS on top of that, it was very hard to figure out what to do. Does leaving mean betraying Scientology? No — but that was not clear then because we didn’t know what was outside. I knew DM was insane by 1990. But like many others, we tried to get the show on the road somehow, anyhow… until after years of constant disaster at every turn… finally there was no other alternative except to get out.
I spent any free minutes for 10 years studying LRH lectures and I pretty much listened to everything except the SHSBC and Class VIII tapes. And I used what I knew to manage the suppression as best I could. But it was an uphill battle.
I found I could actually out create DM at times and change the course of events — I changed posts twice (despite clear orders from DM to the contrary) using what I learned about OT. I got DM to assign me to the posts I wanted. But it took a Herculean effort since by the 2000s there was also the raging PTSness of the rest of the Int base which by that time contained plenty of people who curried favor from DM by treating everyone else exactly like DM treated them. Those types were the only people who “got by.”
In the end, there was really no hope for getting anything constructive done. That’s when I left. Plus I opted to say No to assault and battery.
Wow Alex, you’re a very lucky boy!
LOL Two different languages and neither is English!!!
I wish Ron SR would go hang with his other son of whom I’ve only heard good things-Ronnie.
Jim: “Poor Ron, caught between a rockslam, Dave, and a hard place, me not going for Dave’s nonsense.” – One of your best lines ever!!!
I know Marty is working on a book. I still can’t believe DM was what rose to the top after LRH. I hope the book will give clarity on how this abberation happened. I have a general idea. But the details, like the man himself, are murkey, hard to digest and give a lingering afterburn.
Tooky,
i swear you sound like a Miscavige clone.
So, conditions can’t improve?
speaking of connecting some dots. I researched just now in PT from my link above, and ran across Geir Isene doubt announcement and blog, here it is:
Anyways they are talking about having the works of LRH free on the internet, open source type of thing. They are talking about having all the books and lectures free on the internet. And they are talking about who then makes the money and how will it all work. And can it be possible. I haven’t read it all.
Anyways, I got to thinking. All current members during “The Basics” release, back when, were told and “HARD Sold” to buy multiple packages at thousands of dollars so as to donate to Libraries. WELL, doesn’t that mean FREE, open source you might say at libraries. But yet all current members had to pay for this free tech to libraries. And per Debbie Cook facebook email on 1-1-2012, the IAS has 1 Billion dollars.
So here DM is worried about “an internet” having free source to the tech, and yet he wants all current members to buy book packages so as to donate to libraries, which are free for any person to go and read. Shoot, two people can go into their local library and co-audit Dianetics Book 1.
WTF
I now recall you on the stage. Nice!
so why not have the tech volumes, R&D volumes, OEC volumes, all tapes donated to libraries? If people and planet earth are so fucked up, then let them have the tech. The work was free so keep it so.
And if the planet is so fucked up, then let fumble with the tech, and the pro’s, as indies will get business. And survive, thus no monopoly. I don’t know, just thinking.
I know this is off topic, but have you heard Lisa Marie Presley’s latest?
Here is is:
By the way, David Miscavige is proof that Scientology corrects itself. You’re here, aren’t you?
so the next time somebody from the church calls you to buy a book, or a tape series,,,,,,,,,,,
just say the book was donated to my library and I have easy access to it, I don’t need to buy it.
Thanks Steve,
That is good additional data to what Mike wrote in his points of why we stayed.
I can really see that joining when LRH was still around that there was a loyalty factor involved. When LRH passed and you then found out you had a total nut job running the show, I could see how a person could still have a hope factor that the nut would get unmockled eventually. Unfortunately, the nut hunkered down and used all of his nutty tricks to to unmock the faithful and best of the best.
Now he has the sycophpants and the incompetent left to run his ship of fools.
I just love this mock up of dm at the Int base.
Creepy, GAG! Just a new way of making the customers WRONG!
Jim! Tellin it like it is!
LAUGHTER!
RS,
Pass on the duplication drill!
SOOooo David, now we know about your elder abuse too! Just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse!
Bravo David! I see you are on top of creating the WANT! The people that WANT to leave the Church! That’s the kind of WANT you are creating! Did you tell the staff up at Int that David? People who WANT to talk to the media about your abuse! People who WANT to read Marty’s blog to find out the truth! People who WANT to tell other people what you are REALLY up to! People who WANT to move into the Independent movement! People who WANT you to resign! People who WANT to investigate you. People who WANT to sign petitions against you! blah blah… Yes David, you are creating the WANT! You are creating a WANT for JUSTICE!
“Never consent to a post being filled with a bad person because the post is empty. An empty post is better than one badly filled always.” L.R.H.
I agree Marty… the author (he/she) should stick their neck out, as we have done.
Amen Steve. He is the who. None other.
Li’ll bit, this 4th dynamic engram is discharging with these comments and
originations right here and right now. Marty, Steve, Mike, Jim, Hayden et
al are superbly helping us to confront and as is all the garbage that little
man made us accumulate over all those years. It can take years to break
free but here is the vehicle that will speed up that process tremendously!
Enjoy and go to bed with a lighter load.
And welcome out Li’ll bit!
Jim,
She evolved to become a know-best, I-know-it-all when in fact she knew very little, but she wanted to come across as she actually knew. She loved taking the credit for what her juniors did and being in the lime light was her wet dream…
Lisa’s second song:
So Long
This here is a city without lights
Those are all the people without eyes
Churches, they don’t have a soul
Soup for sale without a bowl
Religion so corrupt and running lives
Farewell, fair weathered friends
I can’t say I’ll miss you in the end
Chorus:
So long, seems that I was so wrong
Seems I wasn’t that strong
Dead wrong, and now I’m long gone
Wrong side, I’ve been sleeping on the wrong side
Stains all over my soul I can’t hide
Nothing’s more clear than goodbye
These roads they don’t lead to anything
These people they talk, they say nothing
Actors who don’t have a part
Heartfelt people with no heart
I’ll find a new crowd
Make a new start
Farewell, fair weathered friends
I can’t say I’ll miss you in the end
(Chorus)
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, say nothing at all if you’ve nothing nice to say
And more on Village Voice:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/05/lisa_marie_pres.php
Hello Marty,
Thank you for these invaluable insights into David Miscavige’s mind. I think they are invaluable, because, although his behavior is frequently shocking, many still supporting him believe that that behavior is a “slip” – he cared so much, he just temporarily lost it.
Your furnishing of his actual thoughts reveals a severely disturbed mental process, a situation way beyond a “slip.”
What is shocking is that so many have knuckled under to someone who is not even up to the level of a normal citizen, let alone to what a Scientologist is supposed to be.
It is not just that Miscavige does not behave like a Clear, he behaves worse than someone who has never received a stitch of auditing.
Accordingly, the great mystery for many is “How could it occur, that someone who shows attributes so low on the Chart of Human Evaluation, was not just pounced on by the group, but instead came to dominate long-time, senior Scientologists, many of whom were personal associates of LRH?”
I think that “incredible” may be a major factor getting in the way of many who are still in truly duplicating and accepting the data on Miscavige. The story is just too incredible, so is rejected.
I think that getting out the full, true story in one detailed article, as to how this anti-Scientologist, David Miscavige:
– defeated the checks and balances LRH set up via the seven boards of trustees and directors of CST, RTC and CSI, (see: http://www.savescientology.com )
– usurped power,and
– continued one-man rule after LRH’s death, in direct contradiction to LRH’s explicit, written intentions (see: http://www.savescientology.com ),
is a key action in undermining the support he has. I think that is vital, because, as we know, SPs have no power of their own. They draw their power from others. Getting the truth out, about he pulled off the above, would clear the “incredible” and help end that support. Just my two cents.
Thanks for all you do,
Fred
I remember first coming into Scientology, absorbed in LRH writings, coming off Castaneda, Tibetan Book of the Dead, T. Leary, Be Here Now and others, mid-late 70’s, it was [then] all about spiritual enlightenment and knowledge and control of life, including death. I wanted to know, and I was finding LRH knew! It wasn’t about joining a cult or a church, and hardly about compliance to a totalitarian regime, that would have been laughable at the time.
Miscavige will get his long over dues so long as enough of us keep up enough pressure and persistence, as some big beings are doings herein, and that is the bottom line.
The truth will prevail, and set us all free.
😆 LMAO
I am just amazed that a group of Sea Org members does not walk into his office and just handle the guy out of power.
I’ve got a radar flying friend, who for some reason, still believes that this is possible. I’ve tried to tell her that, if there were anyone in a position of authority, and if that person (or persons) had the requisite cojones to do so, it would have been done a long, long time ago.
No, Miscavige made sure to eliminate any and all threats to his domination a very long time ago, and never allows anyone with real brass to get very far in the organization. I’m afraid he’ll have to do himself in.
Wow. That little story about Koko’s communication abilities blows me away. Thanks for posting it.
Good God a’mighty. That is the very picture of a runaway psychotic. I’m surprised that no one’s ever knocked his teeth straight down his throat.
I think the greater good would be better served if the cameraman just clonked him over the head with the camera. Nine foot board fence, and all that…
Good observation,
Per the Tech, to the extent a person’s comm is convoluted, you are witnessing the effects of the elements LRH describes in HCOB, “The Nature of a Being.”
With David Miscavige, we are not witnessing a simple, single being, but, rather, a complex of the circuits, valances, and entities LRH describes in the referenced HCOB. Add on top of this the incredible “continuous overt act” of systematically dismantling Scientology, and you have, in DM, a person who is in very, very deep case trouble.
Unfortunately, he is living in that brief moment in time, before he collapses, (ref. C/S Series 33), where he can still inflict serious damage on others.
But, that is not going to last for long.
Fred
I know that’s just a satire, but I’ll bet it’s not far off from the real thing.
What I can’t believe, is that a bunch of S.O. members haven’t simultaneously snapped under all that pressure, and beat the living shit out of this guy. I mean, you’ve got to be mindfucked all out of proportion to keep yourself in check under that sort of mind-bending assault.
What the hell — it’s not like the guy’s standing there with armed stormtroopers pointing guns at you. I gotta tell you, this shit goes waaaaay beyond my personal tolerance for abuse.
Well, in that case, I guess the Spanish Inquisition and witch burning is proof that Christianity was a crock to begin with, the rise of Mao and Chinese Communism proves that there isn’t an ounce of validity to Buddhism, and Hitler’s murder of six million Jews is proof positive that Judaism is little more than a collection of ridiculous fables.
Have I got that right so far?
LOL, thanks, Lars,
Was just being metaphorical, here! But no doubt, there
are a sizeable number of people who would benefit from
such assistance. I would much prefer to deal with the
problem head on, but that is just not feasible, is it?
The ol’ man spoke extensively, about “creative processing”
and indeed, a lot of this, actually occurs on this blog, via
“rejection” so there is therapeutic benefit built in too!
Hey Lars, this insane buffoon is the very least of my worries,
but I really enjoy contributing to the “solution.”
Thanks again bro’, much lighter load, as you say.
ARC, Calvin
Well, ol’ Maggie threw everything in there except, “Compliance is mandatory for all staff and public. Failure to comply will result in ethics chits, beginning with the first warning, then increasing in severity until the offender is called before a Board of Inquiry, then shot at dawn.”
And, excuse me, can we see the L.R.H. reference on “yearly participation updates”?
Marty,
Thank you for allowing me to post re: my mother on this topic and thank you to those who have commented on it. Very kind of you.
I have read your post re: Miscavige and the Internet several times trying to understand what he’s trying to say and all I have managed to get is a headache and a great desire to shoot him into space away from this planet where he can no longer harm humans. And should he encounter some alien race, he would be hard pressed trying to convince them that he is some kind of Demigod, simply because he literally cannot COMMUNICATE.
However, reading between the lines I can clearly see that he has completely dismissed the original purpose of Scientology and it’s Founder and instead he is actively running his own evil purpose which is to invalidate and suppress the real Scientology, and every human being he manages to latch on to.
In the mid 70’s I was one of those “missionaires” sent by Flag who went out to search for and find List One R/Sers, so I know how hot that time was from direct experience, and I can’t figure out how David Miscavige escaped that one. I am certain that he was then (as he is now) a REAL LIST ONE ROCKSLAMMER. Was he ever sec checked or did he cleverly avoid it to remain undetected? I know from what I have read here that he avoids going on session like the Plague, and that makes sense. I’m sure that if he was to be forced to sit in front of an Auditor and hold the cans, the Meter would probably explode and injure the Auditor!
So I guess there is no point in trying to make sense of his insane rants, as I believe they are just his unsuccessful “method” of remaining undetected as what he truly is: a real live LIST ONE R/Ser.
Alex
What a relief ! I thought that something was wrong with me. I tried very hard to understand it and thought that my English was not good enough. So, I am not the only one who didn’t “get it” ! ouffffff….
BULL’S EYE. Jim!!!!
Just out:
Presley says she was emotionally and fiscally robbed by her closest confidants.
“I was slowly starting to self-destruct, and I didn’t know where that was coming from,” Presley says without a trace of self-pity. “I started to uncover the main person who was really close to me for years, and then it was a domino effect. I was devastated.”
She won’t name names but suggests that the damage was both personal and professional. “I got bad advice. I was insulated with no grip on reality,” she says. “They were taking my soul, my money, my everything.”
http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/Lisa+Marie+Presley+weathers+Storm/6620247/story.html
What a relief ! I thought that something was wrong with me. I couldn’t understand “IT”… I started to thing that my English was not good enough or was “getting worse”…. Glad to see that I am not the only one who didn’t “get it”…. Again, what a relief.
“How many more people am I willing to blow out of Scientology”
Davey – that’s called self-listing 😀
I only ever had Miscavige in front of me talking live for the Senior C/S conference in ’96 when He “released” GAT – that was all about how He did what “we” had failed to do and thus “we” were all in Lowers to “Him.”It was coherent but barely so.
Then I saw Him after the actual event watching the OOTs party on the FH lawn and He was a scared nervous little man flanked by all His RTC flunkies (who were nearly all taller than Him despite many being small female teenagers.) I could never understand why He looked so unhappy then until I left the cult many years later and found out exactly what sort of a “religion” He really was running.
So this gibberish has come from 2003 and now 11 years later we still have Him at the helm – how much actual physical harm has He done to Himself in the meantime with His tanning booth time, Botox and alcohol? I did see a Anon vid. last year that had Him sounding very drunk at one of the Idle Morgue openings in Kansas (?) He’s gotten rid of anyone who could possibly remind Him that there are other worthwhile people in the world except Himself, and He has total power (He thinks) over all.
How does He get out of bed in the morning un-aided? I’m serious – this guy is far, far worse than your average psycho. It’s Adolf in the bunker April 1945 out of it on a cocktail of drugs x 100. How does anything ever get done around Him?
How does He even manage to talk to His movie star buddies or the “whales” whose dollars He relies on?
Can He actually be coherent at all?
Hey, Cap’n, some great pointers, here, all taking their
cues from Marty’s posting. Perhaps you might have
caught a glimpse of Sherman, in one of his (rare?)
podium expositions, looking like he was literally “on
Death’s Door”, as with Gillaume, and a few others,
trundled out to assuage suspicions that they were
now just “collateral furniture / damage” to CO$.
What pitiful, glaring examples, of what happens to
a bright, formerly articulate and capable being,
when working directly with a full blown INSANE S.P.!!
Now almost reduced to walking ZOMBIES, after the
incessant, assault of invalidation, suppression &
insanity, under constant threat of violence and
brutality. One HAS to feel for these guys, and all
the others, under the same “inescapable” mindset!
Hurry up, and have that fatal asthmatic attack, or
whatever. you VILE CREATURE FROM HELL!!!!
In addition to my post above, I think it would be good to see a copy of the List One (unfortunately I don’t have it) on this blog and help Miscavige’s bots notice how the dots connect. Not that we don’t already know, but I wouldn’t mind seeing the List again just to confirm that he fits the profile of List One R/Ser to the T, as opposed to the large number of innocent, hard working SO members who landed in the RPF or declared during that terrible time in the mid 70’s. And of course it would be great if Dear Leader gets to read it!
Afterthought ……..each and every OSA’ bot, reading this,
as part of your trolling duties….( this concerns YOUR health
……… if you can remember what that IS ??? )
Quick “STRESS TEST” for you :-
1 ) go walk over to a mirror.
2 ) look into it, carefully noting the expression on your face.
3 ) write down what you see.
4 ) pay attention to your eyes, following as 2) above
5 ) again write down what you see.
Evaluation :-
SADNESS noted…. good! (that’s honesty)
remedy. remove yourself from the CO$.
how ; make the decision to do it, then follow through.
why : you’re severely pts and will NEVER be free, connected!
then? : REAL LRH Scn is ready and waiting to rescue your case
out in the land of the FREE Scn’s >The Independents <
LIFELESSNESS noted… same handling as above.
OVERT HOSTILITY…. too bad (you have become a clone of
your master, and may remain a slave to his bidding
for the rest of this lifetime.)
remedy: next lifetime. (perhaps!)
Further more, I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that the ignominious 6 monthly sec checks he subjects OTs to, apart from making a lot of money, are designed to make sure that they (people on their OT levels) don’t start to think for themselves and start developing “evil” purposes against him (Miscavige) and his regime. We all know that apart from everything else, David Miscavige is PARANOID and he’ll do anything to avoid being found out. He’s very afraid of OTs, including the ones he’s produced with his very much SQUIRREL GAT.
My apologies if I am stepping on anyone’s toes.
Alex
Captain Bob said:
“so the next time somebody from the church calls you to buy a book, or a tape series,,,,,,,,,,,
just say the book was donated to my library and I have easy access to it, I don’t need to buy it.”
Good one!!
Epic fail!! LOL!!
Boy, I’m sure glad I’m out of that shit!! I used to hate all the product officering by the holier than thou.
Marty and Mike Rinder,
With your own spirit and the help of LRH’s Scientology you saved yourselves from the jaws of evil and now you are saving Scientology from going into oblivion. Please accept my humble VWD and my postulate that eventually we will see the resurgence of what the Old Man wanted for the Human Race.
Alex
It’s like “Apocolypse Now” the dfurther youn go up the river the closer to Insanity you get!, we are so near the head of the river now!!
TO,
I think it is Marty, you and many others here who are creating a real WANT for Justice for All.
Ditto Sinar, Dan and Mike.
The nuttier the stuff that we see here just makes it clearer that Miscavige did indeed hit on something when he said that “power is when people listen to you.” He could have done NOTHING without the power flowed to him by those who listen to him and do what he says. The saddest part of all this is that it does bring into question the objective case gain of the highest positioned people in Scientology (not the SUBJECTIVE nature of it – I celebrate my own cognitions and do not question the case gain that any person says they have made). But I think the Miscavige era makes it clear that beings to be free have to have a VERY firm agreement that the individual needs to be allowed to have his/her right of independant thought and action and the freedom to NOT be dominated by another individual or group of them on the third dynamic. It is a great disappointment to me that this all occurred. The “Clear” section of DMSMH talked about the clear being “rational” and it now appears that that bar was set VERY low as far as rational conduct goes on the third dynamic. Of course there is always a small percentage of the population that is not easily dominated and shows the guts to fight back, but that has always existed on planet Earth, has nothing to do with Scientology. But, as I usually point out and will again, the Independant Movement in Scientology is a new beginning that will not agree to the usual “tyranny of the group” as it has occurred before and after 1950. There is much joy and excitement that can be found on the 3rd Dynamic, but only if the assholes are not allowed to have power (that is to say, don’t GIVE them power, don’t LISTEN to them)..
I can see that you guys are still not getting it.
The PTS/SP Tech, the whole of Ethics Tech, the Personnel Series, etc. Think of all the tech and policy in Scientology that are designed to handle or route a psycho like Miscavige and all of them have failed, repeatedly and continually, over the course of 30 years.
So with all these failures, over so long of a time on just this one person, how could you possibly think that Scientology works?
How can you justify the existence of a psycho like Miscavige at the top of the org board for so many decades if Scientology really did what it said it did?
Don’t just react at me. Think about it.
Hey Sam, you missed the event! I’m out,
See Mothers Day’s posting just previous.
>>>>>>>>>LOVE, CALVIN!!!!<<<<<<<<<<
The Oracle, it’s in the same reference that directs playing Bingo or holding Pirate parties on Saturdays to get money for new Church real estate.
JEEEEEZ, Ronnie, for me too!! Just incomprehensible!!
I need to be strapped into a tight straitjacket to hold
back the surprise of his delusional “invincible” life.
Wow. What the hell is he talking about? Who speaks like this?
Anywhere else but in the Church of Scientology, speaking like this will get you one or two things…
1. Therapy, after being suspended.
2. If 1. doesn’t work, you get fired.
If this is how the leadership of the Church of Scientology works (and thinks), the ship isn’t just sinking. It sank a long time ago (before 2003, when this took place).
Yea! You have aptly demonstrated, in his own words, what everyone and anyone who is sane already knows:
David Miscavige is devoutly psychotic.
Q.E.D.
(“quod erat demonstrandum”
or translated
“that which was to be demonstrated”).
You raise an interesting question, Ronnie. I wonder the same thing. There must be some people at Int who would love nothing better than to deck Miscavige (or worse). I simply can’t believe that every person out there has become a complete zombie. Reading about POWs etc, it seems there are always some who, though under huge duress, still manage to hold onto some of their own analytical awareness – just waiting for an opportunity to take out their captors.
I wonder if by now DM has hired outside security goons to protect him against potential assaults from his own staff. I wouldn’t be at all surprised. He’s got to be paranoid as hell, very possibly more afraid of people in his own group than anyone from the outside.
I understand exactly what you are saying, Tooky.
“Scientology” doesn’t DO anything. Nothing at all. It just sits there in tomes of bulletins and lifeless CDs and Tapes.
Sometimes people pick up one of those books or tapes and read or listen to them. Sometimes a person uses some of this technology to help themself or others. Sometimes they just say, “gee that’s swell” and walk away. Sometimes they rail against what’s said. Sometimes they get all excited and start a movement. It’s people that do or don’t do good or bad things with scientology or any other subject.
Sometimes a person who is very sneaky and smart, but who has very very evil intentions toward his fellow man gets ahold of this technology. He manipulates others into believing they are less important, less able, less aware, etc. He cleverly uses false stats and third party to form a truly suppressive group. Then he uses legal tricks to make sure no one can knock him off his perch. Then he keeps everything he does a secret and directs the pointing-finger at others. He cries “mutiney” when anyone observes or objects to his insane actions. He ejects anyone who is a threat to his position.
Eventually, good people see him for what he is. They expose his crimes and his actual intentions and objectives with well crafted doubt formulas and publish them and announce the facts publicly.
Eventually, the number of people who are aware of his crimes become the opinion leaders.
Eventually, the illegal actions of the sneaky little evil rodent become public knowledge and the real squirrel is exposed for what he is and becomes powerless to stem the flow of true data his position is lost forever.
This brings us up to present time.
Hello
OK, I’ll take up your challenge.
Your statement “Scientology does not work” is a generality.
That Scientology auditing tech works, is beyond question. If you do not agree with that, all it tells me is that you have not tried it, in which case, you simply do not know what you’re talking about, because it is something that must be experienced, either giving or receiving, and done so within the guidelines of the Auditor’s Code.
When I say it works, what do I mean? Just this: it releases the charge (or trauma) from past bad experiences, thereby improving the survival potential, awareness, etc. of the recipient.
As to Scientology administrative policies, how the organizations are run, etc, I would tend to agree with you. I’ve said it before, but I think it is obvious there is a huge flaw in that system. Because, as you correctly point out, for at least the last 30 years, it has not functioned as intended. I’m pretty sure LRH himself would agree with that statement.
Furthermore, if that organizational system ever did have a self-correctional mechanism, it clearly did not work. One uneducated, untrained, unaudited psycho tyrant was able to seize power 30 years ago, and no one, no effort, nothing, has been able to dislodge him since.
However, the good guys WILL win in the end, largely because of what Marty and Mike and others have set in motion. And then, the part that really does work, the auditing technology, will be free to spread. In fact, as we know from reading the incredible wins people are having from their auditing in the independent field, this is already happening at an accelerating pace.
CONVOLUTED SCIENTOLOGY TOUGH-LOVE TURBO-ADMIN TECH ON STEROIDS
He doesn’t need outside goons, he’s got a fleet of suppressed brainwashed dedicated minions who’ve been sucked into the matrix of justifying his actions as a super-superior methodology of achieving the aims of Scientology to protect him.
Looky, “Tooky” since you insist on being so “kooky”,
mebbe you should think about switching valences’
permanently. Yeah, take a walk to the Spooky side,
where all the residents, sway back and forth,and
will chant for you ;- “looky, looky, Tooky, there’s
Little Davey looking spacey as he flies over the
Kookie’s Nest.! You never know, he may even
invite you to suck the “eggs” in his nest as a treat!
Asshole deluxe !
It seems I did.
Thanks for sharing.
Absolutely, Steve and Robert! The ONLY who!
You are correct. I’ve been out of the loop of late.
Well done.
Tony & Tara, me too! Spittin’ Image hey?
Tooky,
I’ll try to give you an objective response:
The way your are formulating your question/statement has a certain logic to it on the surface.
But, when you have experienced a panoply of Scientology for a longer duration and objectively participated, studied and practiced the technology it would be impossible for me to agree with you, though there is some truth to your derived logic when only looking at some out of thousands of factors.
When you have seen a person change for the better – no PR – in auditing both as a PC and as an auditor you gain an unshakable certainty of the workability. But it has to be experienced first hand.
As far as the admin side of Scientology, well, maybe it isn’t perfect, but I can tell you that more so than anything is the HUMAN factor in the system. Just look at the US as a political system. It was created with a constitution that was designed to ensure the rights and voice of the people at large. The forefathers even removed any presence of the bankers who were so eager to stop the system in the newly formed state which was not under banking-controlled currency. Where are we today? Do we blatantly derive that the constitution is wholly unworkable? That would be rather naive and short-sighted.
The urge to control money, manipulation and the HUMAN factor destroyed what was once created. That doesn’t mean the original idea was either fully workable or not workable at all – it means that a lot of information and events occurred between 1776 and now and unless one has a well-studied grasp of all the factors it is hard to issue a blanket statement regarding the original idea’s workability.
The same goes for Scientology. I have personally been to an org in the 90’s who was operating off of LRH admin technology and they had a strong ED who had both executive skills and lots of ARC. That was Milano [Milan]. They had almost no intervention from Management, at least to the degree every org has today.When you see such a place with your own eyes it is hard to derive that the technology is utterly unworkable. Couple that with personal experiences of using Org tech, PR tech, Art series tech, etc to great application and results and your statement becomes even harder to harmonize with because it only tells me that you have done a one-wipe analysis without looking into the entire subject yourself which you would have been able to see had you been thorough.
Specifically in the Sea Org the idea of toughness, heavy discipline, etc entered in and after LRH was personally no longer running the Sea Org, the HUMAN factor involved have misused the exact tech which was meant to create an elite group and turned it into a joke of a group with cowed, ineffective people unable to think for themselves.
Here again there is a lot of history that has to be understood to make a proper analysis of the technology which I can only urge you to do. Subjects such as authority, ethics and justice can be very useful when lead by a top management which is acting for the good of everyone. When top management consist of individuals with vested interests and outright perverted drives in the areas of justice or injustice, then you get disaster.
Is the technology to blame? Maybe in part, but certainly not in full as can be empirically demonstrated and proven shall the interested party bother to do so.
That is as much of an non-reacting comment as I can give.
Alex, LRH would be / is (depending where he’s at right now)
extremely proud of you, and that much is certain!
Few manage to combine such a depth of humility, when
blessed with obviously top level wisdom, while dispensing
same with real gentle, but firm conviction, and it SHOWS !
Best regards, respect & ARC,
Calvin
Amen to that. I have religiously added the various CO$ spam emails to my blocked sender list. I thought I’d check the stats on the total number of addresses in that file and it totals one hundred and twenty six!
Seems there is some sort of effort band activity to continually come up with a new address so it will get by the filters that staff KNOW the public uses to fend off the endless stream of e-mail.
So the quote of “And then it becomes, “oh, you’re stopping it”’ goes pretty deep. The truth of it is that we do want to stop … IT ….. which would be a correct indication for the POB.
Alfred Hitchcock comes to mind for me!!!
Ulf, very well stated, great response to T’s challenge.
Thank you so much! Spat over now, Samantha?
Calvin,
Thank you amigo, you got me blushing now :)))
Alex
So, “Tooky”, when a concept is misapplied, or not applied at all, it can be judged in, your universe, as being invalid?? You must have a very interesting, and very complicated, process by which you arrive at your personal stable datums.
The mystery haunts me often.
Me too! The villain in this episode oozes David Miscavige! This IS HIM!
“How many more people am I willing to blow out of Scientology. And by the way, put that aside, why didn’t he program it in and do any part of his job?”
Sky Dayton told David Miscavige, “how many more people do you want to blow out of Scientology..” because Sky Dayton believes the existing efforts are an over product, so DM says: why didn’t Sky do the job?
What, job, exactly? The promotion of Scientology on the Internet? The delivery of Scientology Materials, on the Internet?
This was all supposed to have been done, already, 2 decades ago.
Sky Dayton could put all of the Scientology materials on the Internet, nicely laid out, with full source references and so on, probably .. on a weekend ..
Well, so then why doesn’t he!!! 🙂
(Its LRH who does the work of bringing an understanding of Scientology to the individual; we only need to put the materials in front of the individual and make sure they use them.)
Reading about POWs etc, it seems there are always some who, though under huge duress, still manage to hold onto some of their own analytical awareness – just waiting for an opportunity to take out their captors.
And those people are under armed guard. They would be killed instantly, if they tried to lay a finger on the SP.
Again, my point is – what on earth stops the people at the Int base from laying this monster’s skull wide open? I’m being quite honest here. I truly don’t get why a group of grown people would allow such a petty incompetent to treat them like North Korean gulag prisoners.
I think they would have just had to murder me. There’s no way that I wouldn’t have gone after that motherf*cker if he’d treated me that way.
Ulf,
This has brought something home to me, clearly. I’ve gotten a view of what has occurred since I left the Int Base. The falsity of DM’s life has come home sharply. Any last veil has lifted and the utter pathetic nature of this person Miscavige has become so obvious.
I worked with this woman. I know the character, the ethics level, the intellectual capacity of this person in this life. That she became an “exec” over any department, let alone Audio, has given me a whole new insight into David Miscavige – he rewards downstats and works to bring the bright, the capable the productive to ruin and the mediocre, the toadying, are elevated by him KNOWINGLY.
He can’t have able people around him because they show in contrast his incompetence. He’s a peasant pretending to be Pope. A brute. A crass, boorish brute.
There is no one capable left on post as they can’t be – they show up DM’s real worth and value.
I’m so happy the same ol’ LDW is my friend and colleague. Dang, that was well said Les.
For Tooky. OK, wow, you’re right, I just didn’t really think this whole thing through. I was in denial. It’s a farce. Whew, thanks dude. That indication just blew it all for me. Holy cats, who woulda thunk. I mean now that I have, yes, well, I’m an idiot for evvery consideraing that there was anything at all about this subject that had any value or truth or use in my or any other’s life.
Thanks Took, you’ve cut through the bullshit, and since you have, from now on I’ll be much more careful and circumspect about what I think I observe when I observe it, and second guess every decision, and well, just be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more careful I don’t fall into any more card sharp trickiness.
I mean WTF was I even thinking before: spiritual beingness, ARC, Cause, consideration takes rank over mechanics. WHOA!!!! That’s freaking me out!!
That IS wild. I actually thought this stuff had some worth!!! Holy cats. Again, thanks for debunking all that especially that consideration stuff. Man, that is so far fetched, so, so, well impossible, I can’t believe I ever fell for it.
Ronnie, you have to realize that every single person in that mob at the Int base is ALONE. There are no connections to other staff, only to The COB. There are no two people on that base who would say what they really think about the scene there to each other. These folks are just individual isolated beings, alone with their “crimes.” If this were not the case, his secretary Laurisse would have stabbed him with a letter opener long since. She would have reason to, as well. I have personal seen him treat her like shit, in my presence. It came up on my Truth Rundown, which of course went nowhere but that is another story.
In a perverse way, you almost have to admire how DM was able to run such an op on so many people and make it stick for this long. In a rational way, however, he needs to be bopped over the head with one of his Scotch bottles.
My point here is that people at Int are so far below really being able to connect with one another that no kind of internal rebellion could ever form. There is no mutual trust there, only the hope to “survive” another day and get some sleep tonight. That is really the way it is for most of the people there most of the time.
Gracias, amigo!
There was no spat as far as I am aware. What needed to be said at the time was said. I very much doubt our personalities will not continue to clash in all honesty but this need not be the time or place – let’s leave it at that.
Found a couple of LRH items handwritten in February 1982:
HCOB 17 FEBRUARY 1982
PREJUDICE
A fixed, unqualified opinion, usually based on unhappy experience, substituting itself for reason.
L.Ron Hubbard
Founder
&
HCOB 15 February 1982
FREEDOM OF SPEECH
You can say what you please but what you say does not have to please – Just be careful
not too many people
get unpleased.
L. Ron Hubbard
Founder
Joe, to me what it points out is the importance of TRAINING, if only through the TRs, and the attitude of an auditor. Subjective only doesn’t cut it – one needs training in order to be able to confront and handle the “outside world” and the people in it. One needs to have the concept of obnosing, “observing the obvious” or that which is really there, and then holding one’s position instead of going along with the herd.
I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that Studied the Tech of Scientology and honestly applied it and came back with the conclusion that “Scientology doesn’t work.” I have met plenty of people that got sick and tired of the constant reg cycle and left the group or couldn’t stand to be on staff for one more minute. Don’t collapse the two concepts, the group ain’t the tech. The fact that most people on this blog have disconnected from the group “Corporate Scientology” and are better off because of that, means that Scientology does work. They disconnected from suppression per the tech and their lives got better. Even LRH billed Scientology as a workable system and never claimed it was perfect. If you can’t find the workability of it for yourself and you gave it an honest try then I think you should be elsewhere, I hear the Mormons are looking for new recruits.
Good for her!! It really does look like she made it out of the labrythn.
Way to go Lisa Marie!!
Was David Miscavige BORN a child psychopath?
“controlling, manipulative, and sadistic, but very much in touch with reality.”
“He’s intelligent, cold, calculating, and explosive.”
“”They don’t care if someone is mad at them,They don’t care if they hurt someone’s feelings.”
“Psychopaths don’t feel guilty because they are blind to guilt,”
“…psychopaths know exactly what they’re doing — they just don’t care how it affects others.
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/kid-psychopath-221400341.html
LDW, Publius & Ulf –
Thank you for your well-thought out answers. Basically what I am hearing you say is that if the technology can not be applied, or if the technology is used with the intent to harm, then it is not going to work, and it is unfair to judge the results of Scientology technology just because a bona-fide, real life SP has been running the Church for more than 30 years.
All right then. So let’s just take the PTS/SP technology specifically. That technology is designed to identify and handle or get rid of SPs to make an environment safe from suppression.
With all the well-meaning OTs in Scientology for the last 30 years who are very highly trained, and who have had so many chances to apply the PTS/SP tech to David Miscavige, not one of them could make it work in 30 years.
Even if David Miscavige is a master genius SP who could control the minds and postulates of very highly trained OTs and make the PTS/SP technology inoperable against him, which he obviously did, then how then can you say that the PTS/SP tech of Scientology works?
How can the PTS/SP Technology of Scientology work and also have David Miscavige as COB of the Church of Scientology for 30 years?
All your answers are coming within two months.
The good news is, more and more society is coming to understand the David Miscaviges of the world. The web site of Robert Hare, who wrote (I just ordered it) “Without Conscience, The disturbing World of the Psychopaths among us” even has manuals, handbooks and scales. A library of references on the David Miscavige’s of the world:
http://www.hare.org/
Look up the Stanford experiments based on (and also look up) the Stanley Milgrim experiments concerning authority – both resonate with a lot truth having participated in the Int experiment myself.
For better understanding of the current Int Base Staff: “Why do rising stars turn into employees from hell?” ‘Snakes in Suits’ unmasks corporate psychos……..
“…many psychopaths just want money, power, fame, or simply a nice car. Where do these psychopaths go? Often, it’s to the corporate world.”
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13150054/site/todayshow/ns/today-books/t/snakes-suits-unmasks-corporate-psychos/#.T7LRV-sQsQY
Key Symptoms of Psychopathy :
http://aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org/index.php/2011/02/24/this-charming-psychopath-how-to-spot-social-predators-before-they-attack/
This will flip you out!
Dan, thanks for laying out the brutal R-Factor.
AKA divide and conquer. Nasty,wretched old military tactic.
for real effectiveness, throw in:-
1) pretended salvation.
2) projected enemies
3) installation of fear
4) thorough invalidation
5) complete domination
6) prohibited communication
7) denial of sustenance (food,sleep,companionship)
8) actual / threatened punishment / degradation.
Does this sound about right to create the zombie / slaves,
that make up Kapitein Kamikazi’s “few are chosen” S.O ???
Tooky, I’ll give a a very brief response that isn’t just mocking you.
You are cherry-picking by ignoring all the times – all the thousands, nay, tens of thousands of times – when various aspects of scientology “tech” were successfully applied to a good result. You isolate one instance when “it” apparently failed, but –
History shows us any system can be circumvented. Where there’s a will there’s a way. Any psychologist or psychiatrist can tell you, no therapy works on someone who doesn’t want it, much less works to circumvent it. Resistant folks learn to talk the talk, while they walk in an entirely different direction. Having worked in psychiatry for 13 years, I have seen this with my own eyes.
What have you seen? Have you ever applied any tech to see for yourself? Intellectualizing armchair logicians divorced from real-life experience, who cherry-pick their “evidence” just don’t cut it here. That’s why you’re being mocked, and I think (hope?) you know that.
Fine with me Sam.
I don’t know, Dan. Maybe it’s just the way I’m built, but I can only take so much abuse from anyone – including someone who’s positioned himself as my Lord and Master.
Barring punching that little snot-nosed weasel’s lights out, I probably would have just picked up my things and walked. And I wouldn’t have snuck out, either. I would have walked straight out the front gate and dared anyone to stop me from exercising my God-given right to do so. There would have been hell to pay, if they’d tried.
David Miscavige is a mad man. Obvious lunatic is obvious.
Marty I respect you even though we do not see eye to eye on obvious things.
You are a warrior
With Regards Niels
I am surprised that there weren’t equally detailed questions about the names and numbers of all bank accounts, retirement funds, credit cards (with available balances, of course), and any other place that you might have money hidden away that they can send in people to reg from you.
I can’t resist a challenge. And I will say, yours are very good, as challenges go in this area. I do sense an honesty to your questions, perhaps a willingness to consider possible answers, which is much appreciated.
I believe one possible answer is, failure to apply ethics conditions, and the Code of Honor. Someone I know who has spent countless hours doing ethics conditions on a personal, not an enforced, basis, strongly believes that the Ethics tech has never been properly used – by individual Scientologists, Ethics personnel, or staff (at all levels).
According to LRH, tech won’t work unless ethics are in.
Remember, too, Scientology is an APPLIED technology. Sort of like golf, to use a crude analogy. You can learn all about a new swing technique, even practice it at the range until you’re pretty good. But if you don’t apply it when you’re in a real game, and you have a bad round, you can’t then turn around and blame the technique.
This is a very interesting mystery – “I started to uncover the main person who was really close to me for years, and then it was a domino effect”.
Just a guess, but I think there’s a good chance that whoever it was, a long-time trusted friend or associate, or maybe even closer, was very possibly being covertly “run” by David Miscavige – spying on her, reporting back etc.
Once discovered, that would be a HUGE betrayal.
I think this could have a large and devastating ripple effect throughout the Scientology celebrity world. She is a peer, and she is untouchable. I don’t believe DM and his OSA minions will even try to slime her like they did Debbie Cook. Of course, I could be wrong – just speculating.
But DM’s grip is based to no small extent on the continued support of very wealthy people: celebrities, those with inherited wealth, those who have otherwise accumulated great wealth. Once they start peeling off, look out below!
Maybe not, if your mind had been assimilated into the Borg.
Why has DM been repeating the presumably false statement that Yager and Guillaume are lovers for well over a decade? I’d be interested to know where he picked up this fixation.
I first met DM in 1975 at his ordination at the Haverford College Chapel. I was FSM of the year and was invited. I knew his father, ‘Ron Savage’, who introduced me. I shook his limp hand, said “It’s a pleasure to meet you”, and beheld those lifeless piercing blue eyes. He glanced sideways to his right at his dad as if to say “What the hell is this?” Gave a bored “hmm” let go of my hand and walked away. Ron Snr said, “C’mon David, be nice.” David didn’t even hear as he walked away.
And now, for MY crime. Take note David Miscavige and his honor guards!
My crime is knowing.
Knowing that NOTHING is more irreligious than to persecute seekers of truth in order to keep up absurdities and wild stupidities.
NOTHING is more inhumane, than the commission of cruelty under the mask of love for Hubbard and mankind.
There has been a long history of cruelty and wild stupidity and to that, I will not contribute. And still, my bridge is rolling out before me, my friends and family like a magic carpet.
Boy Dan,
That is truly tragic. I feel for those people.
What if you do apply it and it doesn’t work? What then? I think that’s the point Tooky is trying to make. So many on this blog insist on the infallibility of the tech. “If it didn’t work then it was done wrong. KSW wasn’t followed. The person delivering it was poorly trained or out ethics”. etc., etc, etc.
Despite it’s name, Scientology is a faith, not a science. It is wonderful that so many of you have found value and spiritual enlightenment from the writings and teachings of LRH. But not everyone does. And that’s ok, too.
“That Scientology auditing tech works, is beyond question.” Why, may I ask, can it not be questioned?
“Intellectualizing armchair logicians divorced from real-life experience, who cherry-pick their “evidence” just don’t cut it here.” More than just a little condescending. Pointing out inconsistencies is called OBSERVING. Isn’t “observing” a core LRH doctrine?
Maybe not, if your mind had been assimilated into the Borg.
That’s just the thing….I’ve never been ‘assimilated’ to such a degree into any group, and trust me, I could have, many times in this life.
John P,
I’ve said it many times on many blogs and sites.
LRH’s org board includes staff training, and that includes ALL echelons of staff.
It’s 2 and 1/2 hours a day staff training. The policies, the LRH private despatch traffic is NOT destroyed, it’s still available at all echelons, for the training of whichever staff is left standing.
The shell shocked messed up top ranks people, oughta do whatever they individually want. (Go retire to the real world is what I recommend, but if they want to stay, then head to their Mimeo FIles of their Sea Org facility, and start reading what LRH wrote to them, or go onto the computer system at their facility and read what LRH said.)
As a sub note, when past “bad” Sea Org leaders were doing things that were not per Hubbard’s admin writings, the “bad” Sea Org leader was ousted and all their orders cancelled, and then the cronies of that “bad” Sea Org leader were also ousted, and then everyone left standing re-studied what Hubbard wrote them for that echelon, and they all “got back on Source” (re-studied the LRH refs for their areas and started doing again what LRH said.)
Miscavige has so dominated what they do, they’ve majorly gone off of what LRH ordered them to do, and they need all to do a whole lotta long term restudy, and just take a break of a couple years to do that!
The solution to the movement’s greatest controversies, how to reform and evolve, is also laid out by anyone who gets their head around what LRH wrote in ALL of his admin writings.
Exec Strata is the “think tank” per LRH ED 339R Int. I’ve repeatedly said that what they need to do is a combination of reforming Hubbard’s bad policies, and also a LOT more education and study allowed for their top “think tank” leaders (the Int Exec Strata), so they actually have some good strategic experts like LRH wished that they evolve for the movement. It takes more time that Hubbard thought, and I’d add college, university and grad school in the history of religion, to the Exec Strata members’ training lineups.
In the LRH traffic to Guilliaume Leserve (in I think his non Existence answer from LRH), LRH gave ED Int the authority to deal with arbitraries.
But only if they’re really first fully familiar with what Hubbard gave them as options, and they also really looked and admitted that a lot of the Hubbard admin policies are arbitraries and need to be retired, only then will they get themselves out of these long term controversies the movement self generates (a lot of the problems are LRH’s fault, and it will take admitting the major ones and remedying those).
Hubbard had a tape to managers about “lost tech.” The point is that he’s told them basic principles and all manner of solutions to various of the organization’s problems (future saner managers will have to admit and deal with Hubbard’s mistakes as a major step someday to get themselves out of the fixes they are stuck in), but the “lost admin tech” during this DM dominated period, and the most major “lost tech” is that LRH didn’t even specify that COB ASI nor COB RTC be doing what Miscavige is doing.
Exec Strata should be the policy experts and major policy guiders and reformers and changers of the movement’s problem behavior..
Each Sea Org facility has its own Mimeo Files of all the issue types (church admin writings) from Hubbard applicable for that echelon.
The movement has the admin tech and Hubbard wrote that admin tech sort of like that boring machine in the Matrix movie, which tipped over, looked like it was not going to keep boring, but it self corrected itself, stood upright, and then continued boring into the ground.
The Hubbard admin writings are that self correcting, they will correct whoever is in the Sea Org to fix whatever bad leaders do.
Marty once brought up that Miscavige might destroy or make unavailable basic LRH traffic that was very limited, and I witnessed him do a small bit of that (I complied with an order to remove the “COB ASI” private traffic off of the ASI computer traffic so the ASI staff wouldn’t even be able to further read the LRH traffic to COB ASI).
I don’t think Miscavige will order the LRH traffic to ED Int removed from the Int Base computer system, though.
Anyways, the built in self correcting part of the movement, is Hubbard’s own detailed orders for staff training, that are self perpetuating, it’s built into their schedules. The old bad leaders get replaced with new blood, and the new blood read the admin staff training orders and policies, and figure out how to do their jobs.
Miscavige is mainly just cross ordering them from following LRH’s staff policies and traffic.
They’ll know what to do once Miscavige is gone.
LRH tells them in policy what to do.
And they’ll slowly go back to doing what LRH said to do. And at that point, hopefully some in Exec Strata will get up the nerve to apply the LRH traffic to ED Int.
The outside world is not appreciating Scientology, and someday they’ll get some leaders that see this, and scour their LRH traffic to see what loopholes they can employ to undo the damage they are doing to themselves.
HCO BULLETIN OF 24 NOVEMBER 1962 contains List One. I tried to paste a copy of the text into this comment but it got all mushed up, so I gave up.
I’m with you, Publius.
Tooky, Any tool or set of tools “work” if and when you know how to work them and then do so. IE a living being is needed who understands the tools and how they work, and then actually works with them.
Do you have a table saw? Have it build you some new kitchen cabinets. Do you have a car that “works”? Send it down to the store to pick up some groceries for you.
In fact, who needs Scientology tech, to tell wrong from right? Most people are decent enough to tell the difference – but Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Kim Ilsung and countless others managed to come to power, inspite of being vastly outnumbered by basically decent populations in their countries. Stalin is still admired by many in his native country of Georgia. Homeboy made good and stuck it to the overbearing Russians.
“Why Did Cathy Genovese Die?”
“On Friday 13 March in 1964, 28-year-old Catherine Genovese was arriving home in her built-up neighbourhood from a late night shift as a bar manager in Queens, New York. She was suddenly attacked with a knife by a man named Winston Moseley. She screamed aloud “Oh my God, I’ve been stabbed! Please help me!” We know what she screamed because people heard her. People who didn’t lift a finger to help. People who didn’t want to ‘get involved’, who didn’t call the police.
Moseley saw lights come on in the apartments nearby. He knew people were watching. He ran off, leaving Catherine to drag herself into a doorway where she lay bleeding – she could possibly have survived at this point. But her attacker decided to return to finish off what he’d started because, as he later said in court: “It didn’t seem like anyone was going to stop me!” Although badly weakened by now, she again screamed for help. Of 38 witnesses who heard or saw some part of the attack (which took place over about half an hour in total), not one took action to help her. By the time the police were eventually called, she was dead.
Why did no one take action? Were they bad people? Or was it the nature of the situation – the context – that made them seem inhuman? It’s not that they didn’t care about what was happening, it’s that they didn’t act. No one picked up the phone to call for rescue for this woman.”
I would say they did not care enough to act, to get involved. They obviously knew what was happening. It’s not that they didn’t understand right from wrong. Yet they didn’t act. Why not?
Psychologists now call this “bystander apathy”. It pervades our human cultures. “MYOB!” “Not in my job description”. “Not my problem.” “Someone else will do it.”
Read this blog. Here at least, there are folks who are trying to sort out what happened and how they could have gone along with it all. I think the questions you are asking are already answered here. But if you are looking for an inside view of the politics involved in Miscavige’s takeover, perhaps Marty’s book will provide some answers
What has happened, is happening, in Scientology is in it’s own small way, a mini Holocaust.
Hopefully Scientologists can emerge from the experience saying “Never again!” It is an “ethics practical”. People are learning that the buck always stops “here”. No one else is going to take care of things for them. Or, in the end, any of us.
To conclude that “scientology doesn’t work” is a cheap trick. Does Christianity or Buddhism or Vedanta or the Kaballah “work”? A plane crashes. Does aeronautical engineering “work”? A person dies under the surgeon’s knife. Well then, Medicine “doesn’t work”. Any philosophy, or school of thought and practice can be damned that way. Enough.
I don’t want to beat this dead horse anymore. Use your mind, that’s all can say.
Valkov, no one has put it more succinctly.VWD. I discern
that you really do have a multitude of disciplines and
studies from which to assess your evals. Very broad,
indeed and obviously gives substantial credibility when
the need arises. I confess to sometimes being very
short on tolerance with those who blurt out their attacks
on LRH, without taking the time to familiarise themselves
with the content of Marty’s blog.
Calvin
Sure, sure, wogson, you wrote that post because you tried it and it didn’t work, right? DOX PLOX. Or are you playing “What if?” here?
Theoretical whatifs are worthless, just academic discussion, dude. When talking about any technology, whatifs are pure unreality. If you have had some kind of experience with the technology of auditing, out with it, man! State your case.
Consider, automotive engineering is a tech, not a science. But a good engineer uses “scientific” thinking in his work. I mean come on, there is a difference between science and technology. Science has to do with the acquisition of knowledge. Technology has to do with the ways and means of producing effects or results. Technology can develop in the absence of science and without much understanding of WHY it works.
Why do armchair warriors post on this blog?
Technology is technology. Whether you are infallible in it’s use is up to you. You are either good at it or not so good at it. The results you get reflect on you
Wogson,
It was meant to be more than a little condescending because it’s a tiresome well-rutted road we are travelling here. However, if the shoe doesn’t fit, you need not wear it. It’s only a blog, I do not know him or you either, therefore I throw out possibilities and sometimes I get confirmation one way or the other.
Here is part of one of my favorite sentences in which OBSERVE is used 3 times. LRH wrote it. Can you puzzle it out?
“….as long as he OBSERVES to OBSERVE what he OBSERVED…..”
At this point I have no evidence that Tooky has directly OBSERVED any tech in action. If that’s the case, then he is no more than an armchair theorist in my book. I guess that makes my book undemocratic, in your book, huh? Where I come from, respect needed to be earned. Yet I generally treat anyone as an equal. Go figure.
wogson, that’s a figure of speech. Surely you know that? Google “figure of speech”, please.
Beyond that, you should question whether it works or not. Blind faith and blind obedience have ruined the CoS, isn’t that obvious “beyond question”?
So your next step is get a book like Self Analysis perhaps, get a buddy who also questions whether or not it works, and spend one hour a day or so taking turns reading and giving each other the questions in the lists which are in the book. Work your way through art least one list. Some are quite short. Do this for 2 or 3 weeks, THEN come back here and post your experience.
Do you have enough discipline to do this? The questions are simple, on the order of “Can you recall time when you were happy?”
Hallelujah, Jim, Hallelujah! Sing with me now!
By the way wogson, interesting how you cherry-picked that one sentence out of my post and responded to that, and not to anything else I said in my post. Guess I found your “reality level”,huh?
An omitted word there – it should read “Can you recall A time when you were happy?”
Really thoughtful response, Valkov!
Hopefully our arguments made an impression on Tooky. However I think we have a ways to go before we crack Wogson’s case.
It’s not as if you wave a magic wand with Scientology tech, and something good happens. Maybe in the fairy tale land of Christianity, where a few billion people believe a Jewish teacher got up after being dead for 3 days and walked out of his tomb.
In Scientology, there must be a level of skill on the part of the auditor, and an honest willingness to be helped on the part of the recipient. If those conditions are not there, it is not going to “work”.
Because one is dealing with living beings, it is a bit different than applying tools to physical stuff like cars or wood or electronic circuits, things which have no mind of their own.
A better analogy would be this: the driver knows how to drive the car, but needs the passenger to help steer too. It’s by working together that they get the passenger to a better place.
I realize that it is pleasing to consider scientology a religion, and to revel in the (pyrrhic) ‘victory’ over the IRS whereby the IRS ‘capitulated’ to the “Church’s” demands that “Scientology” be granted “religious” status.
But, it turns out that the end game in allowing scientology to be deemed a “religion”, and in giving scientology “religious” rights to tax deductions which no other religion is allowed, was to divert billions upon billions of dollars of revenue from the U.S. Treasury to the “Church” and it’s “Leader”, David Miscavige, to enable him to finance the destruction of all usefulness of scientology, and to ensure that this destruction could be sheltered from public scrutiny by virtue of the fact that it is being carried out by “private action” and not, at least ostensibly, at the hands of the United States Government.
Make no mistake, it is not current campaign contributions, bribes and graft which have resulted in the FBI leaving David Miscavige alone. In fact, it is not these things at all. What is behind the U. S. Government’s failure and outright refusal to do even so much as investigate credible claims of fraud, cheating, lies, terrorism, assaults, embezzlement, civil rights violations, racketeering and so forth, is the simple fact that David Miscavige is a stooge (albeit a psychotic criminal stooge) who is being financed by the “victory” over the IRS.
There is more than one way to destroy help.
It was the dominant purpose of allowing the “Church” to claim religious status to finance the destruction of Scientology and to shield its demise from the prying eyes of the public and low-level prosecutors who might not have been part of the planning party.
So, be careful of persisting in trumpeting the banner of “religious freedom” and all that other irrelevant stuff. Scientology is a series of processes which increase one’s ability to understand and control of one’s environment, if properly applied. Nothing more and nothing less.
YKW: I agree with you in part and disagree in part.
1. Scientology doesnt have rights to tax deductions which no other religion is allowed. Almost all moies given to religions is deductible, whether it be the 10% tithe the Mormons give or payments for High Holy Days seats in a Jewish Temple.
2. The downside though is enormous, as you corectly state it has sheltered the actions of Miscavige from public scrutiny. There is NO oversight of the finances. And the IRS exemption put to rest any argument that the activities of the “church” are religious and therefore protected under the First Amendment.
3. You seem to be saying Miscavie is a stooge of the US government — though your wording really isnt clear. I know you know how Washington works. Influence peddling controls the activities of government. That is what happened with the FBI.
4. I am not clear what you mean when you say: be careful of persisting in trumpeting the banner of “religious freedom” and all that other irrelevant stuff — I certainly do not agree with you that religious freedom is irrelevant, nor do I agree with you that Scientology isnt a religion. May not be for you, and that is your choice. But by any definition of what a religion is (look at the High Court of Australia decision for a good distillation of the elements that denominate a religion), its certainly my religion, and it would be arrogant in the extreme for you, or anyone else, to say that isnt true. It’s a fact that isnt changed by argument. It just is what it is.
You make good points.
However, Scientologists, in fact enjoy massive tax deductions no other religion is allowed. In particular for “training”. No member of any other religion is allowed to deduct the cost of religious classes. Nor for anything even remotely resembling “auditing”. I’m not saying that other religions should not be allowed to do these things. Or even that Scientologists should not be allowed to do these things. But, it is the doing of these things that got things to where they are.
I guess I could be thought to be paranoid, if one were inclined to cast aspersions. My belief — and it is just a belief which is why I stopped short of asserting anything more definitive — is that allowing the “Church” to be classified as a “religion” was part and parcel of a calculated, knowing and intentional plan to, simultaneously, fund the destruction of Scientology and insulate from public scrutiny that very destruction. Once Scientology “won” its “battle” with the IRS, then David Miscavige was free as a lark to do pretty much anything he wanted to do, girded by a huge perpetually refreshing war chest of effectively unlimited size and scope, while his misanthropic machinationssm were shielded from any legal or public scrutiny on the theory that as a ‘religious matter’ his actions are solely an internal “Church” matter, protected by the 1st Amendment and, most importantly, NOT “state action”. And, of course, since it was the “state” which planned and orchestrated all of this (my belief) the “state” is not about to stop it.
I agree with your argument that ‘if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then it probably is a duck’. But, the IRS “victory” did, absolutely, nothing to safeguard Scientology. In fact, it did exactly the opposite. Because the war chest which that “surrender” allowed the “Church” to amass was only of value to Scientology while it was in the hands of well-intentioned and honest men and women. David Miscavige has never been honest or well-intentioned and his sole motivation has always been to destroy Scientology. Always. Always. Always.
So, call it a religion if you want. You just have to be aware that the insistence on that point is what destroyed Scientology in the first place.
And, what is important, is that one does not have to be a Scientologist, or believe that Scientology is a religion, in order to purchase services from the Church of Scientology. Those who purchased their services as non-Scientologists, with no religious affiliation to the Church of Scientology, fall under an entirely different set of legal precedents, and are entitled to sue on civil grounds if they are defrauded, lied to or cheated.
My opinion.
Thanks guys. I know that feeling of being impatient with some of these posters who lament that there are so many people here who think the tech works.
Well DUH! There are a lot of people here who have years of EXPERIENCE with it!
I never mentioned “religious freedom”. I was not trumpeting “religious freedom”.
As far as Scientology in concerned, or any religion, I see a rightness in this. Enlightenment is beyond description or analysis. In Scientology one only attests to abilities gained. All other standards and significance people attach to to the labels and status quot come from them. It is very simple. In Scientology people only attest to abilities gained. And I see that about as a honest as it gets.
(In response to you know who)
YKW: Interesting discussion. Again, I don’t disagree with much of what you said. I believe there is a massive dictinction between the religion and its philosophy and the church. You seem to treat them as one and the same. Just as a side note, only because it is interesting to view these things from difference perspectives, I could make a very effective argument that anyone who sits in a church on Sunday and listens to a sermon is attending a “religious class” and that the money put in the collection plate should rigvhtly be deducted as a religious donation. I don’t think your position that the church of scientology parishioners get deductions that other religions are not entitled to stands up to much scrutiny. My opinion.
I know a lot of people think we, as a civilization are out of the “dark ages”.
I think this civilization is still in the cradle. As one has mercy for infants and overlooks their handicaps with hope and understanding , one can overlook a lot of what isn’t right with the understanding on the time before us and of all of the possibilities ahead of us. I know there has been a lot of talk about the world coming to an end and civilization going down the tubes in this neighborhood. But, if you take an honest look at the actual statistics, (maybe you have to be my age to do that), conditions have been improving at a rapid rate. It’s getting better all the time. David Miscavige and his theater production is just a bit of indigestion and in the long run, he is not bringing the world to an end or the Scientology either.
Everything changes. Change is a constant. No matter how one tried to keep anything etched in stone, the winds of change will come. This is only change. And we can either make the best of the change or not.
I agree with many things you mention.
“But, the IRS “victory” did, absolutely, nothing to safeguard Scientology. In fact, it did exactly the opposite. Because the war chest which that “surrender” allowed the “Church” to amass was only of value to Scientology while it was in the hands of well-intentioned and honest men and women. ”
Right.
My sight aligns with yours Mike. One of the most disturbing elements in this theater is when people who have a disagreement, forget that honest people have rights too. And they trample all over everybody’s right in a fight for “justice”.
“So, call it a religion if you want. You just have to be aware that the insistence on that point is what destroyed Scientology in the first place.”
Scientology has not been destroyed and will never be destroyed. It is a body of truths. You can not make truth go away. Whether it is approached under other banners, whether the advises (as seperate from the tech) change, whether people understand these truths in other ways or by other means, it will be within reach of those with the capacity to understand these truths. Many of these truths have been around for centuries and will continue to be around through eternity. What you are poking around at is the red tape that carried these truths. The red tape (buildings, legal issues, labels, titles, status, designated bodies) is an ever changing body.
I think that Tooky raises an interesting point in his comments:
“If Scientology actually worked to improve conditions in life, then a psycho like Miscavige could not have risen to Mission Janitor, let alone “Chairman of the Board”.
That he has been COB for 30 years, and all anyone can do about it is natter about him on the Internet, proves that Scientology can’t even improve Scientology, let alone any part of the world outside it.
David Miscavige is proof that Scientology does not work, and it never did. I wonder when you guys are going to finally realize that.
“I can see that you guys are still not getting it.
The PTS/SP Tech, the whole of Ethics Tech, the Personnel Series, etc. Think of all the tech and policy in Scientology that are designed to handle or route a psycho like Miscavige and all of them have failed, repeatedly and continually, over the course of 30 years.
So with all these failures, over so long of a time on just this one person, how could you possibly think that Scientology works?
How can you justify the existence of a psycho like Miscavige at the top of the org board for so many decades if Scientology really did what it said it did?
Don’t just react at me. Think about it.”
.A lot of your readers jumped all over him for it. The fact that some of them actually ridiculed his opinion causes me to think that he is confronting something your readers are not willing to…Is it just a little naive to think that getting
rid of David Miscavige is the answer to everyone’s problems? What if
there is something in the current church that breeds people like him?
The peacetime pre-WWII army bred psychopaths like “Fatso Judson”.
from the novel “From Here to Eternity” (sic). Getting rid of one of them really never changed much; his place was quickly taken by another:
http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/198801/From-Here-to-Eternity-Movie-Clip-Fatso-Judson.html
What if there is a weakness in the church that keeps David Miscavige in power? Tooky’s comments could help to fix it.
That pretty much sums it up for me too. There was one good exec over audio in the last 10 years and she lasted for less than a year. She may have had her ser facs but she could manage and she was fair and strived to do what was best for the production of the division – Carmen Fehn (Senador). Shortly after she got busted Denise went from Department Head to Div head, again…
ALL mixers have been busted. Peter Schless was busted in 2006. Russ Greilich was busted in 2006. Any Studio 1 music mixers were busted or turned into “Machine Op and replaced with a permanent Pro. Same happened in Lower RAV and same happened in Studio 2. Any former “mixers” are either not there anymore, or turned into “Machine Ops” with no chance of ever becoming mixers, at least as long as Denise is the head of the Division and DM is the head of Scientology. They both LOVE pros and pay them dearly – very dearly – out of parishioner donations and of course the pros love it as they will never get paid so good elsewhere so they put up with almost anything just to keep that pay check.
If LRH only knew… It is as far away from the ideal scene in his personal BP as one could possibly imagine!
I have no idea what you are ranting about beyond hidden standards. That is like saying antibiotics do not work if the CEO of antibiotic Inc. can’t be moved off post. Scientology works all over the world and it has worked for me whether David Miscavige is sitting in the desert or not. People glued to desks in some compound out in the desert do not even have anything to do with Scientology! The Int Base has NOTHING to do with Scientology except taxing people and running intelligence on them! It isn’t even a delivery org!
They deliver NOTHING but orders and demands for money and lies to the press! That has NOTHING to do with Scientology! If he is COB for another 30 years he is NOT AUDITING ANYBODY! He is BLOWN off the bridge. Those people are NOT Scientologists , they do not practice Scientology, and most of them are not even interested in Scientology as evidenced in the fact they are parked off the bridge and dramatizing cruelty. That has nothing to do with Scientology. IF it would make you comfortable to be able to understand these differences you could see it. It is making you comfortable to op term here. That doesn’t have anything to do with Scientology or David Miscavige. That is all about you and your purposes for existence.
Oracle, could you clarify your first sentence and the last four sentences, please? (what is op term?)
I understand everything else that you say there and it makes a lot of sense
and helps me to understand what is and is not Scientology. However, It doesn’t really answer the questions of “why?” or “how?”
. I think those are legitimate questions and not necessarily “rantings”. I will
say that I think Tooky is being provocative in his comments.
Excellent analogy, Publius, and kudos too, for your
patience and tolerance. You manage to keep your
Auditor’s hat and TR’s at top level ! VWD too!
Op Term Is a short for opposition terminal. Or rather, a person who chooses to oppose. The tendency to op term (oppose other terminals) is basic to the case, and is something that gets handled on the L’s, an auditing procedure. One of Hubbard’s definitions of “sanity” is: #2 “A tolerance of confusion and an agreed upon stable datum on which to align the data in a confusion are at once necessary for a sane reaction on the 8 dynamics.”
If you can be there comfortably with whatever is going on and see it just the way it is with out adding or subtracting from it, you can experience it as it is, and interestingly enough, lacking any need to change it, it changes!
Many people in this theater do not see it just the way it is. This idea that Scientology does not work because one man with a desk job has made a bad example of himself is not seeing it as it is.
Just because two things are mutually dependent, does not = they are equivalent.
Errol, the hidden factor that makes Miscavige as COB possible has nothing to do with Scientology per se. Anymore than Stalin, Mao, or Kim Ilsung were about Communism or Marxism, or Hitler was about National Socialism, or wiping out Native Americans or dropping the atomic bombs on Japan was about “the land of the free and the home of the brave.”
It has to do with the nature of the human mind, the human psyche, and the compulsions that are spawned in the minds and hearts of some individuals. Tooky has yet to show that he knows any applied Scientology, that he is any more than an armchair academic. And he may have an agenda besides.
What, you think if we answer his questions satisfactorily, he will say, “Oh,I get it, Scientology may work after all! I’ll give it a try!”
It appears to me he is starting out with the proposition that “Scientology doesn’t work”, without having tried to apply it.
When it comes right down to it, Who cares? Tooky, you, wogson, etc are big boys, you are free to live however you wish. Scientology is, in any case, only for those who want it. It cannot be enforced. It may not be for you guys. Go your ways, Namaste.
In fact, Tooky is seeing Scientology at work right here on this blog but he doesn’t recognize what he is seeing. This blog is for and by people with experience in Scientology to review and sort out what the Hell happened and learn from it, by using the multiple viewpoint system of reporting direct observations and experiences and comparing them to establish WHAThappened. The inconsistencies between the reality and the ideal scene then become obvious and fallout.
If Tooky, or you or wogson have no experience in the application of Scientology technology, you may of course express your uninformed opinions but how much weight do you expect them to carry here? Anyone with experience will read your posts and think “Oops. Another intellectualizing head-game player.”
Logic is a strange game, You know that logically, you can state that a person can never get from point A to point B, because to get there he has to go half the distance, then half the remaining distance, then half the remaining distance, and therefore will never arrive, always having half the remaining distance still to go……
You will never arrive if you associate unrelated propositions and attempt to associate an unrelated conclusion as “proven”.
If your interested in logical challenges, I recommend Geir’s blog. Geir and some of his regular posters are very very good at logic and spotting fallacies in arguments like the one Tooky posts. Geir in fact welcomes “critics”, ESMBers etc, but be careful what you wish for.
http://isene.wordpress.com/
Here, you just engender the feeling that you are wasting time by taking the discussions off-topic.
My guess is, Tooky “honed” his “logical” argumentation skills over on ESMB and is here on a “mission”. What his mission is, is not yet entirely clear to me.
Errol Sayin posts: “A lot of your readers jumped all over him for it. The fact that some of them actually ridiculed his opinion causes me to think that he is confronting something your readers are not willing to…Is it just a little naive to think that getting rid of David Miscavige is the answer to everyone’s problems?”
Tooky is confronting nothing in the real world. He ought to try confronting the lack of logical consistency of the propositions in his own argument.
Who in the world thinks that “getting rid of David Miscavige is the answer to everyone’s problems?”
No-one here that I know.
That’s a perfect example of an assumption you have made about the people who post here, and their reasons for posting. Not to mention your vast generality of an “answer to everyone’s problems”.
Nice cherry picking!
That’s pretty weak, wogson. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks right back on you. Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!
I think a more appropriate response might have been “touché”, but this was cute. Thanks for the laugh!
Pingback: Big Lie from LRH Birthday Event