Wins Before the 2nd Storm of 2011

Oscar demonstrates the mood here

A poem by a recent Release:

 One day….

One day I will know

I will know who I am

And possibly, one day I will understand life, in all its glory

I believe enlightenment is understanding

Understanding we agreed to everything

We chose everything


I chose life, in all its glory

I felt like the cause for the first time in many moons

Today was a glimpse with pure delight

I understand

I know


As I rode along the coast, at sunset, with the wind gently caressing my face

I felt like I was a 6 year old girl again, peddling toes with embrace

Full of life, love, vitality and an abundant tomorrow

Not a worry in the world, not a glimmer of sorrow

I swayed the handle bars making an ‘S’ motion with my bike as it cruised down the little hill

“I am” I thought as I witnessed the sun drown in glory

I understand

I am 


Words can’t even begin to tell you how grateful I am to you and Monique!  

I love and adore you guys! 

– F.E.

In addition to that, on the Third Dynamic front, please welcome Kim Loss who shares with us a major stable WIN below. One of the major purposes of this blog from the outset has been to help de-PTS those who are the effect of Scientology Inc.  When one can correctly identify the SP who has been causing havoc in his or her life things magically turn for the better.


LRH, HCO PL 16 May 1965 Indicators of Orgs

PC is ALWAYS a potential trouble source if he roller-coasters and only finding the RIGHT suppressive will clean it up. 

-LRH, HCOB 13 September 65r, Out-Tech And How To Get It In

Ethics gets case resurgences by fidning the right SPs.

– LRH, 2o Nov 65rb iss I, The Promotional Actions of an Organization

As many have noted in comments here Scientology Inc, at the direction of David Miscavige, has come to dramatize several suppressive charactistics. For one, it publishes lies and generalities by the truckloads.   We, on the other hand specialize in presenting facts with time, place, form and event.  Many have stated that their lives have blossomed after evaluating these facts against their own observations.   They’ve regained their own identities and certainties.

Recently Kim Loss wrote me a note that sums up very nicely what I think a lot of us here have experienced. Please see the text below. If it were only Kim talking, it would have been worth all the effort, particularly since she is a revitalized, trained auditor.  But of course it is better than that because there are dozens upon dozens who have had similar awakenings and are now leading happier and more fullfilling lives. Note that she acknowledges each of you who have helped to make the truth known.  

Kim Loss

Hello Mr. Rathbun,

I’ve been wanting to write to you for a few weeks now, but held myself back – partly because I figure you’re inundated with emails, and partly because shortly before I found your blog it was hacked! But I’ve been in comm with the infinitely likable Mr. Koon and Jim Logan (who I suspect is a little crazy, but in all the best ways!) and I’ve had things shifting in my universe at a dizzying pace. In the span of 3 weeks I’ve gone from being hugely pissed off and adamant that I was an ex-Scientologist to adding my name to the Indie list and planning a visit to Jim so that I can get dusted off and ready to go again as a tech terminal.

It’s been an amazing few weeks!

I have a million things I want to ask, a million things I want to say, but I think I’ll stick to the basic reason for this email, which is to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you for giving me my WHO. I nearly lost it, trying to spot the SP on the lines. It seemed to be coming from everywhere, and for a while I honestly thought I was going crazy. Having a husband on OT VII only made that worse – poor guy was a wreck and you know, OTs pack a bit of a punch! I definitely felt the fallout from the gross out-tech on his case. But now that I know how things were/are being run, I finally get it. I wasn’t crazy, there WAS an SP uplines, and now I know WHO!

Thanks for that. Thanks for what you’re doing. Thanks for having the guts to speak out for those who have no voice. I’m filled with admiration for those of you who have done and continue to do the right thing and I want you to know that you have my full support. I want so much to thank everyone, but some email addresses are easier to find than others! So I’ll just keep pouring love and acceptance out into the universe and trust that it finds its way.


Kim Loss

240 responses to “Wins Before the 2nd Storm of 2011

  1. Great wins Kim!
    Very moving description on that bicycle, too.
    I duplicate you fully!

    VWD Marty!

    Now…..about that 2nd shit storm for Radical Scientology you mentioned is coming……..???

  2. Fellow Traveller

    I said it before and I will continue to say it, but not continuously — god I love a good Axiom 10. This is a couple of great axiom 10s!

    Welcome aboard Mrs Kim. I second your comments and opinions of Marty.

    Mrs Kim — you are. Thank you. By the way, your suspicions of Jim Logan are generally correct but a little off the mark. He is certifiable. (Certifiable what has been driving many crazy.) But in a good way. Definitely 🙂

    Bruce Pratt

  3. Nice validations. Welcome Kim.You are now free……
    Enjoy life and you are now independent.

  4. martyrathbun09

    Stay tuned – could hit as early as late tomorrow.

  5. 🙂 Love Love Love hearing those wins! 😀

    And Kim, high five!

  6. Michael Fairman

    Your poetry and comments speak beautifully of the return to life that I believe we all have shared thanks to Marty. Welcome.

  7. I don’t think the poem was from Kim.

  8. Truly beautiful. Of all the mocks up in the whole universe, nothing comes close to attaining truth. Great work Kim & thanks for sharing.

  9. Beautiful, beautiful poem, Marty’s recent PC/Pre-OT. Thank you for sharing that. What a lovely product, Marty.

    And Kim, welcome! Sounds like you’re doing just fine these days. And as others here will doubtless confirm, Jim Logan is indeed the good kind of crazy. I know you’ll enjoy being in his classroom. Dan I don’t know, but one day hope to meet.

    Just Me

  10. Gotta love those indy success stories. They have a certain theta tang about them that you no longer see in Mestsagave’s temple of doom “success stories”.

    Their loss is now our Loss, and that’s a gain in my book anytime.


  11. Great wins!
    Nice poem, I’m a big poet/poem lover too. VWD!
    Mrs. Kim, Welcome!
    There’s a great party going on here, glad you could make it!
    Make yourself at home. That’s Marty and Cowboy with Mike in the corner laughing about what’s coming up tomorrow. Bruce is the guy pointing, laughing and talking to everybody! Mosey is the quite one, but she’s around here someplace! Watch out for anyone you see wearing shades, carrying a camera, or with a Snorkle on. Especially watch out for the snorkle people. Their the real nutjobs!

    All in all there’s a good bunch of people around here! If you meet anyone named Karen, stop and talk to her a while. I like all the Karen’s, there’s a couple of ’em! But most of all, relax and enjoy yourself! This is the best party on the planet! Enjoy!

  12. To Kim — How beautifully you write! Thanks so much for sharing … we embrace you!! Hallelujah

    To Marty — The last time you forecast a hurricane, I rushed online to check out your weather. OK, I’m with you now. A figurative storm is coming …

    Really nice job you and Mosey have done, are doing, and will do in the future! H

  13. martyrathbun09


  14. I duplicate your bike description well. When I was a young boy I was sailing down an hill with speed on my push iron when sudden ly my handlebars did a twist. Were it not for the fact I propelled to the left side of the road and into the ditch. I would have propelled to the right side and been under the wheels of fast moveing ford xr3 that was immediately behind me.
    I didn’t see any obstacle on the road. Loose grit though me thinks.

  15. Quicksilver

    Hey Kim,

    Welcome – Great story!

    Great work Dan & Jim

    … and of course

    Well done to Marty & Mosey – another stellar product!

  16. Hi Kim and family,
    Welcome to freedom and regained ability, love to hear people getting dePTSed, love to hear more of your journey. I hear your ack, do well! Marty, thanks for another wonderful product.

  17. Oooops.
    Well, it definitely communicated anyway.

  18. one of those who see

    Marty, this is very difficult. I’m at work with tears in my eyes. LOL
    Beautiful poem!! Wonderful audting result.
    And a revitalized Audtior!!! Well done Kim. Well done Marty, Jim, Dan and Indies.
    And, I’m sure LRH has tears in his eyes too.
    It’s what he wanted. Simple. Auditors who Audit and free beings.

  19. [quote]Now…..about that 2nd shit storm for Radical Scientology you mentioned is coming……..??? [/quote]

    Bashful, ain’t ya?

    /waiting on pins and floating needles 😉

  20. Tony DePhillips

    I am so keyed out!!
    I love all the great news and having so many courageous friends!!
    My life has never been better!!
    Woo Hoooo!!

  21. I am here! Watching, listening, and most of all…Learning!! 🙂

  22. Hi all! Thanks so much for the warm welcomes. I can’t take credit for the wonderful poem – someone else created that little piece of theta. And I can’t claim the title Mrs. these days either – it was leave the church, leave the marriage. I’m sure that’s nothing new to anyone here. But I am delighted to have found my way home again, and I hope to see loads of you in the Academy! 🙂

  23. WOW! Kim I loved all your theta wins and thanks for sharing them.
    A Big WELCOME to You!!!
    Have FUN enjoying your new amazing experiences coming your way.

  24. Fellow Traveller

    Well, grokking that departure scenario all too well it’s time for some grep on all that Mrs stuff….
    How about ‘mame? That one ok? That one can be a bit tricky… 🙂
    Dahlin’? Cuz, dahlin, you kin now claim whatever you wish….


  25. Wowee Kim! The life and energy bursts through… you rock, girl!

    By way of complete contrast, I had occasion to pop into St Hill today; apart from the lack of public, the lack of energy and vitality was quite startling. Also noticeable by its absence was any mention of the upcoming 100th anniversary of LRH’s birthdate. Had it been 10 days before an IAS event, the whole road down to the castle would have been festooned with banners and posters, flags, torches and all the hoo-har. There was nothing – that’s nothing – about LRH’s birthday. Not a poster or a sign (video on my FB page, for friends only, coming imminently). Sad.

  26. I was just teasin’! Hey! You’re lucky! You get to be there!
    The rest of us get to watch the tick tock of the clock till Independence Day!

    Have a nice day! 🙂

  27. D’OH!
    Oh well… all downhill from here, eh?
    Charge your meter! Lots ‘o PC’s out there to be had. 🙂

  28. Wonderful wins from both sides of the grade chart!

    Kim, a rehabbed auditor getting ready to dust off her meter and heading for a short stint at the academy. Fantastic!

    And F.E., who has had the joy of riding herself from the stench of Scientology Inc. and has moved on up a little higher showing us all the theta ball she really is with such a beautiful, moving poem.

    Welcome to you both and I am so glad that you shared those wins with us. It’s really why I come back day after day, just knowing that somewhere, out there, someone is a bit more freer today than yesterday.

    And, I gotta do a shout out to Mosey, Miss uber theta. No words needed, your presence is always felt. So glad you are here playing this game with us!

  29. theo Sismanides

    Hi Kim and thanks for showing up and telling us all the good things you’ ve been doing recently.

    Marty, there are no words to describe what you have been doing here. You are the hurricane-man, a tornado by yourself… Just spotting the Who for people has been a big thing. Now that we are moving onto Tech, I don’t know what to say… people appear from left and right and there are Auditors. This is soooo incredible. There is a whole revitalization for all of us. I don’t know about the 2nd storm. Do let us know as much as possible.

  30. Welcome Kim and FE to the Indies! Am now watching weather reports!

  31. (Is mezmerized staring at the picture)

    I am stunned by the picture of radiant health, Great to see you on board.


  32. Hi Bruce! Mame or dahlin’ work just fine – I’m a Southern girl, after all! I’ll answer to pretty much anything as long as it’s said with ARC 🙂

  33. No worries Bozz! As a matter of fact, my meters were delivered today! 🙂

  34. Hey Marty,
    This is great!
    It’s really good that you are shifting things from all the crap toward flourishing and prospering.
    We need more people auditing!
    I’m doing like 10 sessions a day and I don’t know how many Marty does.
    I’m not sure how much this meets with general appoval but I’ve decided recetly after some tests that it is possible to audit over the internet with Skype.
    I would consider it assisted Solo. People who are trained on solo and able to use the meter could get through NOTs more easily with a remote auditor rather than travelling a long way.
    My feeling at the moment is that we need to make the tech available and that many arbitraries have been introduced to make that difficult by those who want their bikes paid for by slaves.

  35. Kim, watch out for this one! He’s trouble. 🙂

  36. Fellow Traveller

    I’d also like to give a high 5 and tip o the hat the the young fella there with you — Mr Gavin I do believe. Welcome to you too, sir.


  37. Welcome Kim, and “Recent Release”!

    Was that picture of Oscar shot through a porthole or pane of glass? There is some strange ghosting in that image…..(sorry, unflat Grade IV on the aesthetics dynamic..;) )

    Also, I noticed that WordPress came under Distributed Denial of Service attack today:,2817,2381383,00.asp

    Makes me wonder if some individuals are testing their engines before “the second storm”?

  38. Kim,
    congrats regarding your recognition of the WHO. That’s one decent being less stopped and unmocked by HIM 🙂

  39. Calling Jim Logan [ little crazy or not] 🙂

    Have a possible client for your efforts in Florida.
    Please mail me at basic2

    Tried from the website but didn’t work.

  40. Welcome Kim and so gald to hear you found your WHO! Thank you for sharing your story and wish you the best. You have a beautiful life ahead of you.

  41. martyrathbun09

    That is shadow and water reflection – shot was taken outside with interpositions.

  42. martyrathbun09

    Dude, on your Skype idea, retread is in order for you. Starting with The Original Thesis. I’m not posting any more tech gibberish from you till you report to Logan for cramming/retreading as needed.

  43. Indeed! You’ll be hearing more from Mr. Gavin as the weeks roll by! He and I have a standing date for some Gradechart action to begin very soon! 🙂
    But the fact that you know his name has definitely piqued my curiosity about YOU!

  44. 🙂

  45. Kathy Braceland

    F.E. — what an absolutely beautiful poem!

    Kim — what an absolutely beautiful letter!

    Thank you girls for sharing all that beautiful communication with us!

  46. Thank you Martin! And what a shame that Miscavige has managed to move the church so far away from recognizing Source that Ron’s birthday is being given no importance, particularly such a milestone as the 100th. Doubly sad that it’s SH you’re talking about.

  47. You guys are good! lol

  48. Hi Karen, and thank you! I’m chomping at the bit. Auditor and C/S were the only hats I ever chose to wear in the church. I’m excited to pick back up where I left off and get on with the business of making Clears.
    And I’ll second the shout out to Mosey! 🙂

  49. Virgil Samms

    Hang on. I’m Qual I&I and Mr. Hilton is being routed to Dept III before he goes to cramming. Lisa Hamilton will see him first.

    ML Tom

  50. Warm Welcome KIM.
    Lovely letter.
    High Fives and Bright Blessings !

  51. Raul Batista


    This is the one thing I like about you and the reason why I continue to read your BLOG. I like the way you remind people that there was such person as LRH, and he wrote his tech the way he wrote it and meant it to be done and nowhere in the tech volumes is there a page that trains people how to audit NOT’s with Skype.

    People like Ralph Hilton scare me.

  52. Awesome. You the man Marty! 🙂

    Im looking forward to Texas this summer and also having some great wins myself having received my NOTS from Ken Urqhart over the past month.
    Beautiful poem. Lots of theta here.



  53. Hey Kim!!
    Just read this whole post. Yippeee!!!! Or should I say, bkhye-ppe, morphled and blich.

    The Courseroom, Havana, Florida, open, set up, ready, students on course and plenty of Standard Tech for everyone. Even OSA!! Heck, cramming should be routine, even for Class XII’s (CS Series 57).

  54. Returned call.

  55. Raul Batista

    It takes a lot of time and devotion for real auditor to train and intern up to the point of being able to confidently address any case issue that might come up in a PC or Pre-OT with ease and certainty. It is not something that takes days, or weeks, or months it takes years.

    This reminds me again of this guy names XXXXXX who is a Class VIII auditor and learned how to deliver L’s in just a few weeks from another auditor. And where may I ask did he intern, at the local shopping mall?

    That kind of stuff can be even more frightening than what goes on in the actual C of S.

    Enough said.

  56. Raul Batista

    This is some of the reason why Emma closed the Free Zone forum on ESMB. She is so right on when it comes to stuff like that.

  57. Hi Kim — what great life changing wins. Congratulations !!
    A great and very touching poem as well.
    Thank you both for sharing this . A big thanks to Mr. Rathbun for delivering standard auditing. The PC’s WON’T stay away in droves .

  58. The wins of PC and Pre OTs.

    I mean that’s what it’s all about.

    You rock Marty!

    Looking forward to the next storm.

    Just for randomity’s sake 🙂

  59. Wondering the same thing myself – sure makes it mighty interesting – great photo as it catches the eye!

  60. Scott Campbell

    Excellent wins, FE & Kim!

    I’m so glad to hear of others making their way out of the quagmire that the C of S has made out of the field.

    It’s stories of redemption like the ones you guys have posted that bring hope for tomorrow to many that have been hopeless.

    Beautiful poem too!

    L, Scott

  61. Quicksilver


    Don’t be too fast to judge … there are some very good auditors in the Freezone and elsewhere around the world.

    Additionally there’s some very good training going on, again, outside the church

    I would definitely recommend these over the church any day.

  62. Sapere Aude

    F.E. A beautiful piece of writing 🙂

    Kim, Welcome to the world of the Independent’s. We are Scientologists and we are able to think write and act freely. Your success is our success. I smile that you are winning.

    Marty, VWD on the application of LRH tech. To fulfilling the purpose of helping make beings more free to be their true spiritual self without the baggage of their case. That is why we are here. Thanks.

  63. Scott Campbell

    Hey Marty,

    Good job cleaning up the field, man.

    I got a new nickname for ya’ – “The Cleaner”

    I can see it now…

    Indie: “Hey Jim, ya gotta help me out. We got a real mess over here. The Church botched another one.”

    Jim: “I hear ya, man.”

    Indie: “I don’t need to know that you hear me, I just need to know that the situation is under control!”

    Jim: “The situation is under control, chill out and The Cleaner will be there presently.”

    Indie: (smiles) “Shiiit – why didn’t you say so, homebro?!”

    Marty Rathbun arrives on the scene, carrying an E-meter case: “Gentlemen, if I’m curt, it’s because time is of the essence…”

  64. Jethro Bodine

    Marty, you’re too kind. A think a RETRAIN order is in order. Don’t let the controversial independent movement become yet another squirrel group – we all know know how those wind up. There has to be a real, standard tech alternative to the Scientology, Inc. This “audited via Skype” thing reminds me of a squirrel who wrote a computer program to fly a person’s ruds, which totally violates “auditor plus pc is greater than tha pc’s bank”. When LRH wrote his advices and policies on computers, networking and telecommunications, computers were never intended to be used to audit people, not even as a via. In LRH’s writings, “pc” means preclear, not personal computer.

  65. Bert Schippers

    Welcome Kim!

    Great to read your major wins!

  66. Watching Eyes

    Hi Kim,
    Congratulations and welcome aboard. This is a great group. We never know from one day to the next what news will appear on the blog. People are in comm with old friends and living their lives free of the stress we’d all gotten so used to. Loved the picture…….happy faces!

  67. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Kim and JM,

    Bruce is a certifiable torch carrier like me. 😉 All us villagers have one! Yours will be waiting at the castle door all lit up and ready to blaze a trail to DM’s golden tech toilet where he lurks.

    Kim, Love that you are so very happy and spotted you know WHO!

    Gary (a villager with a torch for davey)

  68. Hi Kim,
    Thanks for sharing your great wins. Since officially departing the Co$ on March 13, 2007, I have loved wearing my hat as an auditor.
    Hope you take some newbies under your C/S wings and help them fly.

    Thanks for passing on the wins, Marty. Just love them.

  69. Sapere Aude

  70. For the record, Emma did not close the Freezone Forum on ESMB.

    She did close a sub-forum of that forum, the “Wins outside the CoS” sub-forum, which largely consisted ofTerril’s daily posting of – you guessed it – wins from outside the CoS

    The Freezone Forum itself remains open and active at this time.

  71. There are few things more beautiful than seeing life * Am’in!!! *
    Congratulations! thanks for the lovely poem! ❤

  72. Tony DePhillips

    Sorry Tom,
    That sounds too much like the cult to me.

  73. Tony Dephillips

    It doesn’t take years to make an auditor.

  74. Tony Dephillips

    Hi Ralph.
    I have a lot of respect for much of what you have said on this blog.

    As a seperate comment, my understanding was that independent Scientology was leaning away from super rigid structure. I like the idea of letting people use the tech freely and let there be free market decisions on what is helpful or not.
    Some people may feel that getting 25 hours of sec checking every six months is ” standard “. I don’t, but some may. The way I see it is the more tech out there the better. We all won’t agree on what is best.
    I think tech issues will be decided by those who deliver. For those who don’t like some ones version or application of the tech they can go elsewhere.

  75. Tony Dephillips

    Where do you want him to intern at? Flag?
    Is that before or after he gets his sec checks and all the other mind Fucking he would go through?
    Whoever Mr. XXX is, if he is auditing people and they are happy about it, then why do you care?

  76. Hi Kim, You’ve moved mountains since February and let NOTHING stop you. Since you are setting such a spectacular example of what it means to think for yourself as an Independent Scientologist, Auditor and C/S — now determined to dust off your meter start making Clears — well, I thought you might consider this particular (new) article especially timely. May it add just a little bounce to your step…


  77. Nah,
    Water nor shadow have anything to do with it; it the Southern Darling!

  78. Raul,
    You still haven’t answered my question as to your case level but now I’m wondering about your training level as well. If you’d have any idea of what Standard Tech is, you’d know that courses and internships shouldn’t take more than a couple of weeks if done per LRH.

    But you’re invalidating an accomplished CL VIII that learned the L’s in a couple of weeks! You then say that’s worse than what’s going on in a Church which doesn’t make any L auditor in check sheet time, not in months, not in years and…….. not even in the last decade. A Church that turns out a very sporadic provisional Cl IV and stopped making CLVIII’s but charges it’s parishioners into bankruptcy for it.

    You’re telling us that real auditors and free beings are frightening to you; it’s much saver to clamp it all down and work on MEST bodies and temples. Let me tell you a secret: it’s not! Free beings are nice and won’t punish you like your master does. They may even forgive you for past misdeeds and give you back your life.

    Let me tell you another secret: there’s a course room now that instead of running empty actually pulls in new people on postulate alone. Something can be done about it.

  79. Kim
    Welcome back 😉

  80. I guess we go our ways. Bye.

  81. Reading that I had the idea I have to have a much closer look on my Scientology track. And go earlier. Not 83/84 but 82. Have to find some links and connections. The first appearance of DM by my current knowldege was Mission Holders Conference 82. Missed that one and had a blank on that.
    But paranoia started earlier. Late 81 I asked “who is Watch Dog Committee?”. Wanted to know more about them not just that it exists. I had been reported asking that and had a full GO (now OSA) investigation of mine due to that.

  82. Indeed Kim – it’s apalling. Made me realise that the airbrushing of LRH from CofM is almost complete. I also realised anew that DM won’t go of his own accord because to him the “Church” is HIS – I mean literally I think he believes it is his property and he owns it.

    Do check out the video which is now on my Facebook page. It shows, among other things, that:

    It takes 5 security guards, a DSA and Cathy from OSA UK to deal with a badass SP like me, even though I was simply delivering a letter

    Verbal SP declares have supplanted actual ones apparently, but somehow mysteriously have the same force

    St Hill, which was declared “old St Hill size” before 339R was deemed old tech, is a virtual desert at 2pm Thurdsay – which used to be the second busiest time of the week after Sunday.

  83. Exactly! Yes, practice, qual and cramming make auditors better. BUT there is absolutely no reason to turn auditor training into a “takes forever, must be perfect before starting” David Miscavige unscaleable barrier. That’s neither workable nor true.

    Just Me

  84. Ralphster,
    Just curious about something, when I go to your site and try to inform myself about your activities and what you have to say by clicking on your various links such as ‘Excaliber’ or ‘OT’, what comes up is just goofy stuff like Mario Brothers or sexy avatar chick selection and goofy stuff like that.

    Is that a joke or something? If so, ha ha, I guess. If not, then…huh?

  85. Tony,
    Those lines and terminals are hard won experience. Borne of observation, refined in practice.
    Jim, MOQ

  86. Terril,
    Your lines are down. Call not able to be completed. Try again, complete the cycle or it’s a saaaaammmmack upside your tea drinkin’, ‘pudding’ eatin’ melon.

  87. Ralph,
    Cramming is routine, even for Class XII’s. (LRH, CS Series 57). You know how to contact me. I’d like that.


  88. JBodine,
    Axioms preclude these mechanical vias on auditing. Scn Ax 51 in particular.

  89. Fellow Traveller

    You flatter me.

    The good news just a keeps coming! Looking forward to hearing from the young Mr Gavin.

    If you want to bother, there is a bit more hysterical info about me here:
    You can just skip to the bottom for some contact info. 🙂


  90. Hi Steve! Thanks for the link to the article – as always, well-written and insightful. You have a talent for igniting inspiration! 🙂 Thanks for all you have done and continue to do to get the truth out there.

  91. Don’t blow now; shit happens!
    LRH audited a pc over the phone that’d done a bunk but it’s far from ideal. It’s not necessarily suppressive as I’ve given myself 1700-1800 hours of the most squirrel auditing you never even dreamt about but my case is doing better than any time in the past couple thousands of years while officially I’m not even Clear. I turned on my visio and KRC, I became cause over all my physical pains and my dynamics opened up like never before. But I don’t publish how as it’s been a long haul and pretty hard and I don’t recommend it. However, I understand as Standard Tech has not been available for a long time and any auditing is better than no auditing. The best thing to do is stay in comm and see where you can improve towards the ideal.

  92. Fellow Traveller

    This would be deja vu all over again. Marty spent a good chunk of his SO tenure as just that. I think he called it “Mr Fix It”.

    Bruce Pratt

  93. Friend of Ron

    Thanks for your KSW!

  94. Friend of Ron

    Good to see you …….back in action and back in form…:)

  95. They scare me too.

    What is is about some people that despite all the warnings, they still feel compelled to alter-is? Must be some sort of wanna-be “source” fixation.

    I’d love to see how that auditing-over-the-internet thing works when there’s a bit of congestion & the packets get delayed. So much for “instant reads”. Just one of many problems with this “idea”.

  96. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Jim,
    I just didn’t like the flow is all.
    I have done plenty of ethics training and have had great wins from it.
    Ralph is not part of your training org (that I know of) and I am not defending the use of skype as I really don’t know that much about it. Also anything that seems “squirrel” is not helpful to winning over the kool aids. I think having a good comm cycle over the phone could help someone. Is that auditing? Probably not. Could it be helpful? For sure yes.
    As far as I know Ralph Hilton has been helping people for a long time. I have never spoke to the man, but he seems pretty cool to me from what I have read from him on this blog.
    This is Marty’s blog and I agree he can do what he wants with it. As long as I have the right to say what I wnat here, my feeling is that what Tom said to Ralph seemed disrespectful to Ralph. Go to Dept 3?? What, does he have to do a lower before going to cramming? Write O/W’s? Tom’s comment just struck a nerve with me and I didn’t want to ignore it.

  97. Tony,

    There are some positives that go along with a free market approach. However, reading between the lines, what you seem to be saying is that there’s really no such thing as Standard Tech, that the “free market” will decide what’s standard and what is not.

    The fact that DM has introduced arbitraries and alter-is by the ton, such as in your example 25 hours of sec checking on 6 month checks, and calls it “Standard Tech”, does not mean it is Standard Tech. Nor does it mean there is no Standard Tech.

    There have been long periods of time in Scientology’s history where the standards were clear and kept in by org staff. Not by force, but by reference to the materials, ARC and a desire to help.

    There are such things as “questionable tech points” which LRH talks about in Briefing Course lectures. Not everything is exactly black & white, but the well-trained auditor & C/S know where these points are. They also know how to “think” with the tech, how & where to use judgment. But ALL of this is “Standard Tech”. It’s also why a strictly rote, robotic approach such as DM’s version of GAT is also a departure from Standard Tech.

    I do think the free market can, over time, inform people as to who is getting results and who isn’t. But it can also be fickle, rewarding those who put out glitzy PR or who come up with some “new idea” that might gain short-term popularity but which either doesn’t work or actually harms a case. Just think of the dozens if not hundreds of fad diets that keep popping up over the decades.

    Bottom line though is: Standard Tech is tech that has been PROVEN workable by years of research and application. It is NOT what the “free market” says it is. It is what LRH says it is.

  98. Tony DePhillips

    I think we should be helping people not blowing them off unless they are hostile or sympathetic to the enemy. One of the main ideas I love about being an Indie is the freedom to communicate. Let’s not have such a HUGE button on what may or may not be squirrel tech. We can have views on it and share those views with decency with people that are in communication. We might help them move up a little higher or we might learn something that will help us to move up a little higher.
    I say stick around Ralph, it is just an ARCX. You have friends here. I wouldn’t get Nots over the computer myself. I am just telling you I like having you around here. It is Marty’s blog so you have to respect that too.
    I predict that OSA will start to work this angle now. Getting their little bots to start trying to create wedges between people becasue this or that is squirrel. And heaven forbid that I become a “SQUIRREL”. That the church is the biggest squirrel must not be forgotten.
    Ralph I will say this, I would take a session from you over the phone before I would step back into flag and get a session from that HGC and all the bullshit that goes along with it. (including the trip to Dept.3)

  99. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Publius.
    I am not saying that there is no such thing as standard tech. I don’t have that much training but I would say that I don’t know if anyone has ever delivered “perfect” auditing. Absolutes are unobtainable.
    My point on letting free markets decide was to emphasize that on this blog Marty has said that he does not want to have an Organization with leaders. At least that was how I duplicated it. I believe that Dan Koon mentioned the idea of free markets with the tech.

    Who is going to police standard tech? If the church is dead and nobody else wants to create the new group of Scientology, who is going to police standard tech?
    My point is that it is better to have the tech spread freely and if Marty or Jim or whever wants to do it standardly then that is great. What if Bill or Joe blow want to do it standardly and it doesn’t match with Marty or Jim?? Who polices this? My point is that if you don’t have a control point then you have no choice but to have free markets.

  100. Quicksilver

    Thanks Tony … I misread it & thought it was Div 3 … ya know – pay before you get your cram 🙂

    As for Skype … not sure how that would fly – comm lag in reads showing up on the auditor’s end would likely be an issue – even a good cable line can sometimes lag. Possibly doing something like Self Analysis lists (unmetered) over Skype would work – I haven’t tried, nor do I see me doing that. But as for metered auditing – hmm – not for me.

    Being that the independent field is growing & evolving, there will be all manner of different ways of doing things … experimental processes, Ron’s Org, Cap’n Bill, various types of meters, etc. etc.

    Personally I don’t care what different people do – I find it interesting and am happy that they are still looking.

    Standard Tech? Some will be, some not. But, I think it is wise that when we refer to Standard Tech, it is known that what we are meaning is LRH’s works.

    If someone wants to experiment, hey, go for it … just don’t call it ‘standard tech’ in the LRH sense.

    As for PCs & OTs looking for auditors/training … it’ll likely develop into a regular market … find an auditor/academy thru advertising or word of mouth, kick the tires and if you like, you buy. Word will get around on who is good & who is not.

    Personally, I’ll stick with the LRH bridge and work that. And when I’ve done that, who knows …

  101. Yeah, I had all the L’s at Flag and I don’t see any reason that a seasoned Class VIII couldn’t learn to audit the L rundowns in a matter of a couple of weeks, as long as they didn’t have to memorize everything like on GAT implant training.

  102. Quicksilver

    Right on Just Me

    One learns to audit by auditing.

    Frankly, when I was Suping, I didn’t worry about checksheet time unless it was really out of whack.

    My main concern was that the student got conceptual understanding and could apply what he learned.

    In a standard co-audit, we’d match up similar auditors/PCs … they may be rough to start, but when matched up properly, it’s like 2 barracudas looking at each other – love at 1st sight. 🙂

    No matter where they start, it all works out in the end and they get better & better as time goes on. Sooner or later, you have a sparkling PC and an auditor who is rock solid & rich in experience.

  103. Virgil Samms

    Tony, I just saw this whole thread. So, let me see: Ralph says he audits pcs over Skype. I presume he is using a meter? There is probably all sorts of time differences in his Skype and the PCs Skype causing reads to be latent or early or not visable etc, etc. If he is not using a meter but is doing what you do on solo nots or whatever he is doing without a meter, then…. sigh.

    Marty said “report to cramming for retread from Origianl Thesis on up. You feel this is okay. I said go via Dept III and you hit the roof. A little unbalanced there.

    I made my pledge to LRH a long time ago to be a guardian of standard tech and standard admin. That is what I do. I have seen it all Tony as I have been on tech lines since 1971. I have seen standard tech applied to spectacular results and happy people, just like Marty does. And I have see it misapplied to bad results and people dying left right and center (Current Church of Scientology or other squirrels in the field). The result is ENEMIES to Scientology (not to mention people hurting from bad auditing).

    We’re out here railing against the current C of S because it is squirrel (I am presuming that is why we are here).

    Yes, I’ll put ethics in every time when I see someone squirreling. Too many people suffer if one doesn’t. Sorry, but that is LRH too.

    Just because we are out here in the field does not mean it is a free-for-all to do whatever we please with LRH’s tech. It is not. LRH said the tech does not work unless it is applied 100% standard. That was LRH, not me. Ralph can do whatever he wants to do for all I care. I can do whatever I want to do too. If I struck a “nerve” with you, I am sorry, but it is your “nerve” not mine. Ralph might just get some wins from doing a standard ethics handling.

    ML Tom

  104. Plus, since solo NOTS is essentially done telepathically, how the hell is ANYONE else besides the solo auditor supposed to butt in and take part in that auditing? Especially with some big via like Skype in the way.

  105. Virgil Samms

    Publis. Nicely stated and presented. Thank you.

    ML Tom

  106. I think you can probably audit some stuff over the phone, like maybe an emergency assist or something, but not solo NOTs.

    Looking over what was said above, I don’t see Marty giving him the boot off the blog, only that he wasn’t gonna post Ralph’s unusual technical ideas, like Skype and stuff.

  107. WOW! That was VERY cool. Thanks for that bit of Theta. Loved it.

  108. Marty, I totally agree with you. My god that skype idea completely violates the definition of a comm cycle and In session. Communication on a via????!!

  109. Tony,
    Scientology is an applied philosophy, soundly based on demonstrable truths, a body of fundamentals from which the disciplines and protocols of application arise. Those protocols are exactly workable. ‘Squirrel’ is nothing other than ‘don’t work’. Simple.

    I understand the restim you may have experienced at the mention of the routing Tom mentions. I understand you may not have had the pleasure of standard lines and terminals plying their trade with no agenda other than getting exact results with precise disciplines. That’s OK. Scientology, done right, runs out all that shit, including Scientology itself, to leave a being aware of his own role in this entire universe. Pretty good stuff.

    An aside, I didn’t see anything about ‘lowers’ ‘O/W’s’ and such in the post. Don’t go all A=A on my big fella. You might wanna see if you’ve got somebody in your ear about this sort of thing, nattery, chopping up Scn, ‘other answers’, you know, standard stuff, covered in Safeguarding Tech kind of thing.

    I know whereof I speak. That’s so the Bridge is here, and will be, for those who seek to avail themselves.

  110. TDP,
    You’re damn right it doesn’t!!
    We’ve got a course here, two-three weeks from HARD TRs on up, for each level. And an auditor in the chair at the end of each, auditing.

    Damn right it doesn’t take years. Damn right!!!!!

  111. Tony, I completely agree with you on that one.
    This would be the perfect OSA tactic to created havoc in the Indie community.
    LRH is source. Period. That is a really easy stable datum to follow. I left the Church of DM when I saw all the squirrel LRH going on. The OUT TECH is what jacked my TA and after being in the church for 31 years and experiencing the good then the bad , it was a really easy decision. KSW!

  112. Publius,
    Ditto what Tom says.

  113. FOR,

  114. Tony,
    I’ve known Ralph since we worked together at Flag in the late 70’s. He’s no slouch when it comes to either study of this subject or persistence to his goals.

    I’ve no doubt, he’ll continue with the tenacity to life his dynamic provides. PV=IDn (Potential Value =IntelligenceXDynamic (to the nth degree, accounting for variable in Theta Endowment).

    Laissez Faire ‘tech’ is well and good. Any has the right to do as thou wilt.

    With me, you know what you’re getting – LRH’s written and spoken Dianetics and Scientology. With others, not so much perhaps. There. There’s the ‘free market’. Make your choice.

  115. Tony DePhillips

    I didn’t think Marty was booting him off. I just thought that he was treated poorly by Tom and didn’t really deserve it.

  116. (Leaked from Int base meeting between DM and Marketing…)




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  117. My thoughts entirely.

    When we techies built this thing called the internet, we had to make some choices. The first one was that any guarantee that packets would ever arrive at all was chucked out the window. Second choice was that any guarantee that packets would arrive within a certain time also went out the window.

    Here’s how it *really* works: you will get your packets when the router is damn good and ready to give them too you. We might even throw them away – that’s tough, ask for a re-transmit 🙂 Oh, and the whole thing is held together with bubble-gum. [this is not a mistake, it;s the only way to get it to work at all]

    Auditing over Skype is about the scariest thing I ever heard of.

  118. Ahhh! Now THIS is fun. Why? Because we as Scientologists are going to run into this. Where do we draw the line at squirreling, and what do we do when we see it, and what do we do when we disagree as to what squirreling is or is not?

    I do a LOT of conferencing over the web. A lot. Video sometimes, audio and “webex” most often. I have used special HALO (HP’s virtual conferencing system) many times, which is about as close as you can get to everyone being in the same room as the people across from you. And I have used video-video conferencing with lesser technology.

    Here’s the deal on over the internet auditing: In cannot be done. The auditor has zero session control. Yes, if all goes well, I can see how some auditing can be done. But everything is easy if nothing goes wrong. But as soon as the PC goes out of session for whatever reason, or if some external distraction comes along, you are hosed. Nope. No session control. Not to mention – who is the examiner?

    Besides session control, there is the matter of PC indicators and meter reading. PC indicators are very hard to read via video, and some are impossible to read. So – again – the tools limit the auditing. As for metering, I mentioned this before: I have not tested the computer “C-Meter”, but knowing that it runs on Windows shows me that it is almost 100% likely that it will miss reads. Why? Because Windows is not a real-time OS. This means that Windows will preempt any program at any time and delay its running. So, in the middle of a session, during an assessment – all of a sudden Windows downloads an update, or does a background check for email, or any one of a MILLION other things…. and you miss the read, you have what appears to be a dirty need or RS – God knows! I am not saying that digital e-meters cannot be built, but not on top of a PC (or Mac, for that matter).

    NOW, even on a PC you will miss reads. Over the internet? No cussing way. I think it was splog who talked about packet routing. It is hard enough to get Skype to not do the “Max Headroom” thing on y-y-y-y-you. 🙂 Try that with a meter signal. Comes in via USB or (God forbid) serial. Goes through an Analog to Digital converter. Goes to some PC app called “C-Meter”. Then sent across the internet at whatever speed happens to be there. Or however it is architected. DELAY is guaranteed. DELAY = NOT INSTANT. Equals bad reads.

    Ralph, I am sure you are a good guy. And it is really great that the help flow is there. Really. But, yeah, I would say some basics refresher is needed – and some hatting on digital and computer tech (so that the outpoints that are obvious to me, a trained pro, can be obvious to you as well).

  119. Just got an email from Flag regarding a scholarship.

    The following is directly from said email:

    “Purpose: The purpose of a scholarship is to remedy the scarcity of trained auditors so we have the numbers required to care for the entire population of planet Earth.”

    Anybody see any outpoints?

  120. Joe Pendleton

    Thanks Kim and Marty. Just one person’s cognitions and greater awareness/enlightenment and just plain feeling better and free-er about the game of life, makes the whole world a little lighter (even another person’s cogs makes me feel better). As we say in Dianetics, “OK. Continue>’

  121. Virgil Samms

    Seeing that we are trying to get ethics in on the Church (whether it is that DM just leaves, goes to jail or if the C of S ceases to exist) we should know that we are doing it because thetans are getting hammered with out tech and squirrel tech. What do you think Marty is cleaning up when he audits those who have had bad auditing in the Church.

    Tony DePhillips knows what out tech and out admin can do because he has been the effect of it. I understand that. So if there is out tech in the Church should we a) defend more of it, b) promote it? Standard tech is what makes people better. Sure, 22 1/2 get better if you shove an ice cream cone in their hand (Class VIII Tape Standard Tech). The other 77 1/2 percent will not get benefits from out-tech and in fact get adverse effects. I’ve lost a lot of friends due to out tech (Dave McCarthy, David Rousseau, Alan Hubbard just to name a few).

    LRH says: “Ethics exists primarily to get technology in. Tech can’t work unless ethics is already in. When tech goes out, Ethics can, (and is expected to) get it in. For the purpose of Scientology, amongst others, is to apply Scientology. ” HCO PL 1 September 1965

    “For the purpose of Scientology, amongst others, is to apply Scientology.” I think sums it up nicely.

    ML Tom

  122. Well this is going to be a trip down the Rabbit Hole and my apologies to Kim for adding to the derail.

    Well Done Kim, I especially like that you are not afraid to use your own name.

    Re: Ralph & “Standard Tech”
    I would venture there is NO “Standard Tech” being delivered in the world today. Good tech and good application yes.
    What LRH set up as “Standard”…no.
    People are getting good results on pc’s (certainly far better than can be gotten within Corporate CoS) without being certified to audit various actions for example. Lack of certs, C/S’ing, Qual, Cramming, HCO etc. has not and should not, IMO, stop people from helping their fellows and/or making a living applying a skill they have.

    We find ourselves in a very peculiar circumstance where the “Central Organizations”, which should be the resource for maintaining the ‘standards, are themselves nothing more than cesspools of twisted, perverted MIS-applications of everything we hold holy.

    So what is needed is for WISDOM be brought to bear and recognize that EVERYTHING has changed. The old LRH paradigm of a controlled environment which maintains standards…is no more. It doesn’t and can’t exist. It will not exist ever again. At least not as an exclusive monopoly.
    WE all have to be responsible now.

    You pays yo money, you takes yo chances.

    I think it will be fine. I think LRH always loved field practitioners, supported them and gave them wide latitude while trusting them to do the right thing.

    That’s the way I feel about it too. I trust you field practitioners to do the right thing.


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    What about the L’s?

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    “L-12… I can’t wait for 13, 14, and 15 to be released, too! Rumor has it, COB is going to announce it at the next event!”

  125. Quicksilver

    Hahahahah … great one!

    Sheesh, OT V $30,000?? Man! My 1st time cost about $55,000 and the second about $60,000 to repair the first one.

    The only turbo boost I noticed was me heading out the door.

    Hmm … Dear Claims Verification … 🙂

  126. martyrathbun09

    Training is half the gain. Auditing with a trained auditor is half the gain. Auditing with an untrained auditor is no better than psychotherapy, at best.

  127. Psttt Tony, Mr. XXX=Marty.

  128. I agree with both Tony and Publius :).

    The incredible danger of going independent is exactly this. Exactly this. If the CofS actually did its function, and the SO did its function, and we did not allow a usurper to completely waste the goals, purposes, and policies of the Church, I think we would all be fat and happy at our favorite mission or Church, doing the bridge, perhaps being on staff, and helping others.

    But, that is not the case. We, frankly, allowed this to happen, and I for one believe that a centrally controlled Scientology delivery and policing apparatus without LRH direct oversight was pretty much doomed to fail – because NO ONE can replace LRH.

    So, now what? The free market – or, what I called “Open Source” Scientology in a blog post of my own. We are, each of us, truly responsible for the tech. “What is true for you” in SPADES. I am telling you right now NO ONE has the right anymore to enforce on me what is and what is not Scientology. I am a free man with my own mind, and I want to keep it that way.

    BUT – we each of us also have a right to discuss this with others. To point out references, to seek the guidance of people we respect. To be humble in our knowledge, and to enter a course room environment where we entrust ourselves to the guidance of a “Sensei.” I re-watched “Yentl” the other day – the seeking of knowledge in the Jewish schools, the arguments over the Torah – I love that! We need that in Scn. By default we will be doing that. This comment by Ralph proves it.

    We are independent, but we also have the right to set up groups and agree to ground rules – but remove the ONLY ONE aspect of the church. When I started, there was a definite difference between different orgs and different missions. AO had a very different vibe from ASHO, my little mission had a very different vibe from both, and from another mission in our area. Different groups will have different vibes – all doing what should be Standard Tech, and perhaps focussing on aspects of the tech – Grades vs. OT levels, Purifs and Objectives vs. metered auditing, etc.

    Yes, there is standard tech. But I believe this to be true: Scientology is not 100% complete. There are questions to life I had to answer outside the world of Scientology – philosophical questions. But there is a standard application of existing technology.

    I forget which tape it was on the BC where Ron talked about the “Fundamentalist Scientologist.” This is not the same context as a Fundamentalist Conservative member of a religion. The context is that an auditor would know his or her fundamentals so well, they can think with the material, see the connections between the pockets of tech (Ser Facs as they related to Stable Data as they relate to Problems tech as they relate to GPMs, for example). This is what we need. I foresee a day where we have tech delivery groups – auditing and training – where we train people in all aspects of Scn to become Fundamentalist Scientologists in this context.

    Doing that will preserve Standard Tech.

    But the policing part? Well, look at the Internet Auditors. Am I going to stop this? No. Can I point out outpoints and discuss this with others? Yes. Will this help? I think so. KSW is not “Nazis Keeping Scientology Working”. It can be done with guidance and respect, and with granting of beingness. If we recognize the common goal, we’ll get there. I could disagree with someone and be wrong (it has happened before 🙂 ). Reading and applying references, and being humble in our knowledge will get us there.

    This is such a big cussing deal, though. We are big enough now to pull this off. I will say, I personally trust you all to keep Scientology alive and standard. I see it happening here.

  129. Again and again, same od stuff:
    Technical Volumes 1954-56, page 389 P.A.B. No. 79 PROFESSIONAL AUDITOR’S BULLETIN H

    “Every now and again somebody tries to get me to say what I think of auditors. They want me to become hypercritical, I guess, so as to match the asker’s tone. Well, I better make a public utterance after all this time.

    “I think of auditors in a rather intense way. As I know more auditors than anybody else and have a better basis for judgment, on this subject I can be for once an authority.

    “My opinion of auditors in general is fairly well known to several people.

    “I think of an Auditor as a person with enough guts to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. This quality is rare and this quality is courageous in the extreme.

    “It is my opinion and knowledge that auditors are amongst the upper tenth of the upper twentieth of intelligent human beings. Their will to do, their motives, their ability to grasp and to use are superior to that of any other profession. I think of an auditor as having INITIATIVE. He is able to grasp or make a mockup and put it into action.

    “Auditors survive better than other people.

    “If this world has any faintest chance of surviving it will be not because I write, but because auditors can and will think and do.

    “I think our auditors came from beings lately arrived on Earth who, seeing where it was going, decided to band together to send it elsewhere.”
    Anyway, Scientology tech is scientology tech. Anything else can be done, why not? But you would not name it scientology, isn’t it?

  130. Scott – the Cleaner is one of my favorite character types! Always in the context of cleaning up someone else’s cuss-ups. From Jean Reno in “La Femme Nakita” (AWESOME) to Harvey Keitel as “The Wolf” in “Pulp Fiction”, whom you reference here (“The Wolf will be there directly.” “That is all you had to say, negro!”) Again, AWESOME.

    There are other great stories with this role. The Cleaner gets shit done. Perfect metaphor for Marty in this context!

  131. And I forgot this part, removed by Mismanaged church:

    I consider all auditors my friends.
    I consider them that even when they squirrel.
    I believe they have a right to express themselves and their own opinions.
    I would not for a moment hamper their right to think.
    I think of auditors and Scientologists as the free people.

  132. And, again and again, let’s finish it with this, from the same reference:
    “Just as they consider one another their people, so I consider them my people.
    ‘I don’t expect auditors or Scientologists to instantly agree with or seize upon whatever I say. I would be offended if they did and would feel they weren’t a free people.
    Since they are intelligent I expect them to think over what’s said, try it, and if it’s good for them, use it.”

  133. Tony Dephillips

    What else would you have him do in dept 3 if it wasn’t lowers or some condition? To me the inference was that he is out ethics for having a veiwpoint. I don’t like that. LRH did say what’s true for you is true. I have no beef with you but I guess you font get my point. No bigger.
    I don’t have anyone on my lines saying anything. Its a basic comm cycle and I don’t feel you are duplicating me.

  134. Tony Dephillips

    I got your point.
    I just don’t feel your comment was needed. I didn’t hit the roof, I just feel your comment wasn’t necessary. It was like let’s gang up on Ralph. It wasn’t cool. That’s my opinion.

  135. Sorry, it’s not the end of it:
    “‘I sorrow when I see somebody accomplishing less than he should because he thinks I wouldn’t approve of it.
    In organizations and out I count upon initiative
    and good judgment.
    The most decent people I have ever known
    have been auditors. The best hearted people I know are auditors. And I know that if it’s a better world in the future,
    it will be because Scientologists are what they are,
    not what I made them.”

    Sorry again, I wanted to “nail” it!

  136. Tony Dephillips

    Good duplication MOQ.

  137. Broad subject is Broad

    “Evaluating Therapeutic Effectiveness in Counselling And Psychotherapy”
    “Overall, no one therapeutic approach stands out as offering better results than any other. (However, evidence from efficacy studies is gradually accumulating to indicate that some kinds of distress are particularly well addressed by certain approaches; clients with panic disorders, for instance, often respond particularly well to cognitive behavioural therapy.)”

    “An Introduction to Cognitive Therapy & Cognitive Behavioural Approaches”
    “The central insight of cognitive therapy as originally formulated over three decades ago is that thoughts mediate between stimuli, such as external events, and emotions. As in the figure below, a stimulus elicits a thought — which might be an evaluative judgement of some kind — which in turn gives rise to an emotion. In other words, it is not the stimulus itself which somehow elicits an emotional response directly, but our evaluation of or thought about that stimulus”

  138. Right, complete free market Scientology could be confusing and has not been proven (free market economy has almost wiped the playing field). Dictator dominated Scientology has been proven an utter disaster. Any organization made even the worst wog groups survive better and Standard Tech like in the 70’s has proven very successful.

    It’s not so difficult to see that some organization is needed and what the direction of approach should be. LRH has given us the responsibility to implement ethics from the lowest gradient up to the point of blowing up headquarters if MEST would ever become important.

    First one decides who are his friends and supports those. Then delivery of Standard Tech would have to be stepped up and the group engram needs to be audited out. Then all the little integrity flaps which brought about deterioration would need to be addressed. In danger policy would need to be installed to never allow it to happen again, etc.

    I think tolerance of other groups would be a main part of that condition as intolerance and disconnection have been main tools of deterioration. Intolerance of more than one manager and subsequent dictator worship was the first step in the disaster line up.

    This would leave room for independents to start up their own practice without any connection to veteran or greater organized groups. It won’t be so bad as sooner or later they will send their students up line (to experienced groups).

    It works out nicely as we see on this blog. Students and pc’s with bad experience in one group come to this blog and get debugged. Real bad groups get exposed by those of good will, the media and the courts, money gets returned and pc’s salvaged.

  139. Your broad subject is boring 🙂

  140. one of those who see

    Wonderful!! Love it!! Who created this?

  141. Independent Scientologist

    David, boy do I agree with your point of view.

    As one simple exampe, I don’t care how standardly you do everything else, the minute you start auditing Power or any higher level in the independent field (like me) you have gone counter to very explicit LRH policy. What’s standard tech and what isn’t? Each individual has to figure that out for themselves. Which means that you damn well better be able to get ethics in on yourself and you better have personal integrity.

    – Ron Matlock

  142. Mrs. Friend of Ron

    Third the shout out to Mosey! Hey, I can’t be left out of that one.
    So well done, Kim! Welcome, welcome, welcome!
    It’s very hard not to get happy about all this theta you’re helping create, Marty… 😀

  143. Cindy Pinsonnault

    I continue to get a pile of promo every day. And everything I’m getting is about the Flag World Tour – NOTHING about LRH’s birthday. I did get one little email about it, but it was far overshadowed by other promo.

  144. Tony Dephillips

    Well said Grasshopper.
    You have snatched the pebble cleanly.

  145. Beautiful. Ha ha ha L-ovely

  146. Tony Dephillips

    Nicely said David.

  147. L-13 – you can make money exteriorize from your wallet

  148. one of those who see

    Tony, Ralph, Grasshopper etc… Just been having this same conversation with a friend for hours last night. This ia an important discussion. It is a big one that I am working on. Free Market Scientology, Standard Tech etc..

  149. Yes it is.I find this more intresting.
    But don’t be fooled, I keep my eye on plenty of avenues
    like this

  150. Ralph,
    what would be so bad about getting correction from a Zealot for Standard Tech like Jim Logan ?

    I trust you that you as a being are able to push back any uprising BPC, and can decide for the your own good as well as of that of your clients.

  151. What about that ECT, huh? Now THAT’S some THERAPY!

    Patient after ECT: “Huh?”
    Doctor:”I said, how are you doing now?
    Patient: “Huh?”
    Doctor: “How do you feel?”
    Patient: “Ah…who am I again?”
    Doctor: “Well, looks like we got a result!”

  152. Mrs. Friend of Ron

    So very wise Grasshopper.

  153. One outpoint I’ve seen is that there are virtually zero auditors being trained by orgs. There are some at Flag, but they are all staff and many of them don’t end up as auditors. I can only assume the intent is to have all auditors under strict control with no outside auditing or field auditors.
    Field auditors might do stuff like Marty is doing and then the church would look bad.

  154. Well Vergil,
    I’ll post this just in case Marty has got over his impulse to put down experienced auditors who disagree with him.
    I use a setup over video where I can see the PC and the meter.
    The lags are minimal with both using good computers and high speed internet.
    I’m a bit suspicious of Marty now as he seems unwilling to engage in open communication with those who test his reality.
    Its like he threw a curved ball without a willingness to listen which is surely something LRH would have expected from an auditor.

  155. Spirit – song and lyrics by “The Waterboys” a Scottish band.
    (Don’t know who put the short video together)

    Man gets tired
    spirit don’t
    Man surrenders
    spirit won’t
    Man crawls
    spirit flies
    Spirit lives
    when man dies

    Man seems
    spirit is
    Man dreams
    the spirit lives
    Man is tethered
    spirit free
    What spirit
    is man can be

  156. I knew LRH.
    He sent me a congratulatory letter when I attested Clear.
    I used to do my solo auditing hardly 20 meters from his office.
    Yes, people like me can be scary. I only intentionally scare those the not so bright who have intentions counter to LRH’s.

  157. Sorry – I have to transfer the site to a paid host – will do soon otherwise the stupid popunders appear. Its a bit of a technical nightmare.

  158. Yeah – I emailed you 🙂

  159. What amazes me is that even with these mechanical vias people are still getting gains. There are many “success stories” on Paul’s Robot Auditor, even from OTs.
    There is no claim on that site to be delivering Scientology, that word is not even mentioned. It is not Standard Tech and not a substitute for Bridge. Still, the little the author set up to do with it, according to the written success stories of people who gave it a try, it delivers.

  160. I think any effectiveness can be attributed to parts that are common to Scientology auditing and these psychotherapies. The comm cycle. Having another terminal there to help you look at things. Etc.
    Some psychiatrists help people. But ones that just listen long enough to diagnose and label you so they can prescribe you the right pills, well I don’t think that helps anyone in the end.

  161. Tony Dephillips

    That hit the spot.
    I really need a politically correct cognition. Lmao.

  162. Firstly — welcome to Kim and congratulations to the guest of Marty and Mosey “F.E” for her visit with them and sharing her poem.

    Secondly — years ago I was part of a very different forum and blog. During that time, the moderator who was very oriented to watching his forum evolve or potentially devolve noted that DURING the new moon phase and DURING the full moon phase, contentious arguments would erupt on his blog.

    (this new moon phase would last approximately one week and the full moon phase, one week therefore = 2 weeks of potential NOISE and upset on the forum/blog)

    With 2 weeks of calm and harmony. (it would be one week of new moon (upsets), one week of calm, one week of Full moon (upsets), one week of calm)

    While I haven’t been keeping “stats” — I have observed that this happy place DOES erupt from time to time. Feathers are really ruffled and even though it SEEMS appropriate to slap someone upside the head — I wonder if perhaps that slap doesn’t sting a bit more or come with more force BECAUSE of the “tides of the moon”

    My point basically is this: there is something about the moons phases. Check with any hospital emergency room – it’s much more active during the FULL moon AND the new moon.

    The new moon I’ve found creates a revved up (mis) emotional time.

    Just wanted to remind us that we’ve got a great deal MORE work to do before
    we can each consider that any sort of “job” is done …

    So let’s appreciate what Marty brings, what Jim brings, what Tony brings, what Ralph brings etc etc …

    While SEEKING praise and approval isn’t a lofty goal — feeling appreciated is definitely something everyone enjoys and appreciating another does NOT mean you agree with their methods.

    It means you acknowledge that they are alive.


  163. Fellow Traveller

    On that storm brewing, seems we got ourselves a poster. A blatant plug for some creativity on another site, yeah. Guilty. But this, ROFL LMAO.

    Coming Soon to a Video Store Near You:

    Bruce Pratt

  164. Addendum: In case you are wondering we are currently into the “new moon” phase. If you live in the country you can barely find the slightest sliver of the moon – it’s that dark outside.

    Good time though to see all the stars.

    Sometimes looking up, seeing stars reminds me of that it’s my job to have lofty, star-high goals …


  165. Bruce,
    Just read your story at the link. Powerful. Your story, as others, leaves me aghast and shaking my head at the incredible state of policy mis-application within the Church.

    Doubly great news: you are out and you are on your way to the new Academy! May you flourish and prosper!

  166. OTDT!

    You’re my hero!!!!!!!

  167. martyrathbun09

    Ralph, I post this because it is not a promotion of whacky ideas, it is a caveat emptor.

  168. Thanks GH,

    I always instinctively thought there was something wrong with the C-Meter concept but never had it explained so accurately in such detail in so few words.

  169. OTDT – just last night I was in the company of 3 other Indies and we all 4 agreed that we would submit a request to you to write the ‘No suck up” Rundown, to handle all those times that we had to suck it up and didn’t want to, or had to suck it up because we did want to, or any variable there of.

    We’d like to have it soon so that we can run it on ourselves plus all others that may need & don’t know it yet.

    We are all standing by in Texas — and I won’t mention that it is Austin, caus that might give our identity away.

    Ya think?

  170. martyrathbun09

    Perhaps you are referring to the lecture, Craftsmanship, Fundamentals. One of my favorites. I also highly recommend the Introductory lecture to the Student Hat, where LRH points out that “criticism” (if it is to be constructive) in a subject is only attainable by thoroughly knowing the subject and being able to apply it.

  171. Tom,

    You da man!!!!!



  172. Marty,
    Don’t be so quick to judge. I’ve often lounged in my hot tub soloing with great wins. Granted often when the cans touch the water I may mistake a stage 4 for a rocket read but otherwise I’m all good.
    Initially the W/Ses did get wet but then I skyped myself.

  173. Tony DePhillips


  174. My suggestion Tony is that you throw yourself at the mercy of that cruel,brutal and unreasonable task master Jimbo Logan and go get yourself some rough tough academy training with a supervisor who knows Supervisor Stable Data and is happy to watch you get tangled up in a little ball of yarn playin’ around with squirrel tech (that’s what makes a guy like Jimbo so cruel, brutal ,sadistic and unreasonable) like a kitten with a smile on his face before he teaches you how to do it right.

    Then you’d really have nightmares before you ever thought of ever squirreling again 😉

  175. martyrathbun09

    Nice one, Diz.

  176. I’m totally with you Tom,

    If Marty hadn’t of ripped Ralph a new asshole.

    I’m sure you or I probably would have.

    Personally I’m sick and tired of others “revising” the tech.

    Standard Tech as it has existed in the HCOBs has always worked fine for me without any so called “improvements”.

    Miscavige is just another Jack Horner or Werner Erhard or Robert Moore or David Mayo or Alan Walters or…..

    All BOTWO the Squirrel garbage.

    The only difference is that his organization has been sanctified by the IRS and protected by various copyright laws by his “friends” in the US Government.


    It doesn’t mean it is any less squirrel than the Church of the Process, Amprinistics, EST AKA Landmark etc.

    They all say *base* their so called technology on the works on LRH and claimed that they have “improved” it in some way.

    Whether it be using the power of the “furies”, indoctrination by some kind of grueling seminar or worshipping Satan as part of the “process” running R6 on anyone who picks up the emeter cans or introducing the Golden Age of Tech.

    It’s all squirrel tech!

    Me I’m stickin’ to Standard Tech and I’d rather fight than switch.

    Anyone who’d rather chase butterflies and wander down endless labyrinths is welcome to do so.

    Just don’t be calling it “Scientology”.

    At least in that regard the other squirrels are more honest than Miscavige and his gang.

  177. Tony DePhillips


  178. Oh, yes. Could be that tape – I don’t have my personal library, alas.

    This is such as great subject. Ron was so smart about how he structured this. The HCOB “Styles of Auditing” is a masterpiece – I think I referenced it before here. But, it so very well outlines the progression of the skills from 0 to (well) 6. From “sit there and listen,” to being the jedi master in session. All described in one HCOB.

    One of my favorite movies is “Surf’s Up”, which is a “kids” animation film, with Shia Labeouf as the maverick kid surfer penguin, and Jeff Bridges as the relaxed, laid back surfer dude surfing master. Really an awesome movie, and the interaction between the two characters really sums up the know-it-all apprentice vs the wise and patient master. The difficulty of learning the skill transitioning to the simplicity of knowing it once you know it. Captures that essence very well.

    People need to master and learn their craft. Those that know the craft should be patient, and non-condemning. Those that don’t know… well (the study tapes again) the first thing blocking learning anything is thinking you already know it. Truth will out.

  179. It is huge, but it does not scare me like it used to. I have faith in people. I have trust that we have the critical mass. Look at the people who are independent! I mean, come on! We have the all-star players. Putting in place the means to bring in more, and to pass to the next generation would round it out nicely. I tell you what, I am more free about being a Scientologist now than I ever was when I was in, because the baggage is gone.

  180. Quicksilver

    Well said Grasshopper.

    I would rather discuss and hear other viewpoints. It is an evolution and changes will occur.

    That Skype auditing or using one of the virtual computer meters or a Clarity meter – this is all part of an evolution.

    Granting beingness and hearing someone out to me is more important than dismissing new ideas or discoveries simply because they are new.

    It is not saying that we have to use these new ideas, but at the very least allow the person to communicate.

    I think we can all learn & move up a little higher. It’s part of growth as an Independent.

  181. I think that was why they shut down the Field in LA.

    We made ’em look bad.

    You know repairing cases that were botched up in the Orgs became a full time job until the Auditor *De*Activation Chief lowered the boom.

    Thankfully he saved the orgs from further embarrassment 🙂

  182. Tony find your word!

  183. The idea of using Skype as a look in system is not a bad idea Ralph I personally thought you were implying more than that.

  184. Wow!

    Seems the results are similar to the Golden Age of Tech for less money and aggravation though similar auditing style 😉

  185. Total ROFLMAO!!!!


    Here’s how Marty would probably talk to Dave if given the chance:

  186. Scott Campbell

    Thanks Guys,

    You got the vibe.

  187. Oh wow Oh wow!!!!

    I’m totally fuckin’ line charging on your last post OTDT

    This has gotta be the most hysterical thing you’ve written so far.

    I’m glad i wasn’t imbibing or snacking when I read it!!!!



  188. Damn straight OTDT,

    L-10 is basically a style of auditing. L-11 and 12 are a bit more complex but easily learned.

    However like the Introspection RD they are a real bitch to repair if done wrong!

    Especially C/S Series 37R .

    Not that I’ve audited the Ls myself but I’ve seen some of the “results” if you can call ’em that from the Mecca of Technical Deception when they screwed up and it ain’t a purdy sight.

  189. “I think you can probably audit some stuff over the phone, like maybe an emergency assist or something, but not solo NOTs.”

    Funny you should mention that OTDT.

    Ron does mention having to audit a PC over the phone once who’d done a bunk when an auditor exteriorized her.

    Though I don’t think it’s something one would normally do unless it was an *extreme* emergency.

  190. Tony,

    I agree that O/W write ups are overused and abused.

    So is sending someone to ethics when they should just go to cramming or just need more drilling like metering and TRs.

    When we were on the CCRD pilot Ron didn’t send any of us to ethics for our screw ups.

    He just sent us to cramming to sort it out like it says in the C/S series.

    Personally I think because ethics is abused in such a manner it By Passes Charge.

    Too bad Superpower was never released in a timely manner since it would have addressed much of this charge.

    Also accusing someone of having overts is *illegal*.

    That said.

    One should be able to accept helpful criticism as such.

    Such as “maybe you should work on your TR 1 so PCs don’t feel compelled to wear a hearing aid to session.”

    Or “try doing some 0 so that you aren’t looking out the window when the PC decides to blow.”

    Or “Ralph this Skype thing is like a wild assed crazy idea and maybe you should possibly check out what the axioms say about you know live communication.”

    Which is sorta what it seemed that Marty was doing kinda brusquely maybe.

    Jimbo knows better than I about this but in the supervisors code you *are* supposed to invalidate the student’s mistakes which would probably include “wild ass crazy ideas” ruthlessly while maintaining ARC.

    Seems Ralph is still alive and posting after Marty’s comment so it seems everything is fine and Ralph survived 😉

  191. Hey Jim, do you guys have a website or perhaps a forum where wins can be posted/read from training? 🙂

  192. Tony DePhillips

    Hi RJ,
    Thanks for the comm.
    I had no beef with what Marty did.
    I am not worried about Ralph. He is a big boy and can take care of himself.
    I simply didn’t like the flow and stated it aloud.
    No big deal.

    I am being here and communicating.

  193. Tony DePhillips

    I actually think he was referring to Trey Lotz.

  194. Tony DePhillips

    Ser fac.

  195. Tony DePhillips

    I think we are up for the challenge.
    But, we have to be willing to tolerate viewpoints as you so eloquently pointed out earlier. The corporate church is dead because it could not communicate and tolerate differing views. We have to make sure we don’t go into that valence. We can change viewpoints with ARC and tolerance not with force and make wrong.
    Oh… we can use force too when needed and applicable…

  196. Grasshopper

    I like where you are coming from on this. Your assessment of a workable system regarding “delivery” and “standard tech” is aligned with my own.
    Ultimately we are, each of us, responsible for this working out so as to produce the “greatest long term survival with minimal destruction across the dynamics”. We will each have slightly, or radically different viewpoints. Some of these other viewpoints we may choose to align with, some we may well reject.

    I feel that the main reason that “standard tech” ( as RON wrote it) will survive, as such, is because it has been PROVEN “workable”. That is it’s power…. It IS workable when “standard”. It is not the only “tech” in existence but it “gets the job done” when applied correctly.

    From my take on ethics and the dynamics, I consider it the truth that ultimately WE, each of us, are trying to survive “optimally” across the dynamics, and that NO agency has the “right” to intervene in that process. Matter of fact, no agency actually can do anything to, or with your dynamics, unless you choose to allow it anyway. To me, this goal, or quest, is senior to all other considerations.

    In my opinion this “Quest” is not dependent upon Scientology any more than anything else. That L Ron Hubbard actually found, or developed, a Technology that could assist to the degree that Scientology does, is HUGE! I consider that L Ron Hubbard has saved me a vast amount of time and “trial and error” in forwarding MY dynamics, however, at the end of the day, it is ENTIRELY UP TO EACH OF US whether we create our postulates of “optimum survival” or not. If it takes creating the whole damn lot, from “A” to “Z”, from scratch, then that is what we will need to do. Hopefully we will get it “right” more that we get it “wrong”. Scientology technology and it’s philosophies are fabulous tools toward that end. I was, in fact, a long way from even seeing what the game was, before I “stumbled upon” Scientology.

    The bottom line is… “how are you doing with creating the reality of “optimum survival across the dynamics” in present time?”

    I am confident we can all do this. After all, we created the game in the first place! It is the game “where everybody wins”.

    Let’s make it so!


  197. Mine or yours?

  198. Tony,
    You did say you don’t have much training. To ‘yawn’ at 50% of the Scientology Bridge is sorta self-defeating. Come on down to Havana. We’ll have a cigar, then to course.

  199. Totally dig it dude.

  200. WW – Yep. Now that I have I have been in this mode of thought for a while, it is actually becoming clear that this is the direction it had to go. As another Hubbard said (Elbert) “we are gods in the chrysalis.” We had to become independent to really be free, and we had to take on the responsibility collectively and especially individually to keep the tech free.

    My senior policy/directive is “The work was free. Keep it so.” This to me is a hell of a lot more important than anything else.

  201. Don’t be sorry!
    Auditors are my heroes.

  202. Cat – interesting reading. Cognitive Therapy looks interesting – an attempt to help people by talking with them and effectively having them re-think their responses to the world. Sometimes you can get people to change their mind about the world. Sometimes it may be better to see why they are thinking this way in the first place.

  203. So, I am not really sure why Anon would point to this snippet of a lecture (sounds like circa 1951 or 52). This is a great excerpt, especially when looking at when it was given. Cognitive Therapy, from the links you provided, is about 30 years old. Back in ’51, you had some more, shall we say, invasive therapies.

  204. Yes Active listening (auditing) is key.

    “Indeed, the evidence suggests that the abilities of individual therapists may be a more significant factor in determining outcome than therapeutic orientation!”

  205. Actually, quite a lot of work went into the training I had to do in order to learn how to audit the Ls. My qualifications are that I am a Class VIII and have been a full time professional auditor for 42 years. I have over 43,000 hours of production under my belt. I have also done 3 Flag internships, including 2 on the Apollo under LRH.

    The first step of the Ls training was to do the Goals Mini Course, a prerequisite for the Class X Course, which consists of 31 LRH lectures on GPMs. Then there is the study of the theory materials and the drilling of the unique techniques used on the Ls.

    But by far the most important part of the training has been the internship. That is where you learn how the theory of the Rundowns are applied in practice. So far, in the last 2 1/2 years, I have done around 1500 hours of Ls auditing with well over a dozen Ls completions. Sessions are scanned and sent to the CS. There are a lot of judgement points involved in delivering these rundowns, so the CS feedback has been invaluable.

    There are many success stories on my website from these very powerful Rundowns. The latest success story is by Ann Howe from her L10 completion.

    For me as an auditor, I have had tremendous wins learning and auditing this tech. Nothing I have ever audited produce the kind of powerful and life changing wins that these Rundowns do.

  206. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Trey. And I would add that I don’t think that anyone who doesn’t have years of auditing experience under his or her belt belongs anywhere near the OT Levels.

  207. martyrathbun09

    “I am being here and communicating.” – that’s why we love you, Dude.

  208. A couple of points on that – you attack squirrelling but promote squirrel ethics “tech”. David Miscavage started with the Severe Reality Adjustment. I don’t think even he has gone as far as using a reamer on someone.
    Secondly David Mayo served as Senior C/S International for many years. He was very close to LRH. He way well not have been perfect and may well have been guilty of some misapplication. However, I consider it very inappropriate to lump him in with such as Miscavage.

  209. Had to check back to see how you were faring, Ralph. Awesome news that you’re in comm with Jim! I’m heading over to see him for cramming too. Maybe I’ll see ya there! 🙂

  210. Tony DePhillips

    Back at ya Iceman.

  211. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Jim.
    I have done the Academy levels and audited on OT7 for 6 years. I have done a few hours of auditing others.
    I did the OT Doctorate course and am a fully hatted EO.
    Also I listened to quite a few lectures.
    I would not be against doing some training with you at some point possibly.
    I had a lot of failed purposes on the pro metering course. I was on it for over two years and never made it through.
    Some serious, serous, grinding.
    If you ever send me to Dept 3 you will get no more cigars from me dude.
    I wasn’t yawning at the training idea. I was yawning at RJ’s ser facy attitude. 🙂

  212. 🙂 Well said, Tony. This is such a great conversation because it goes to the core. And tolerance is key. Every group I know of has adherents who are intolerant of other groups and their ideas. Certain (not all) Christians are intolerant of New Agers, Atheists and, for that matter Scientologists. Certain atheists are intolerant of pretty much anyone who espouses a spiritual belief (while claiming the “reason” card). Certain scientists are intolerant of extra-material explanations.

    It is actually unusual to be tolerant. Tolerance puts a person at risk of losing their core beliefs, or at least puts them in a position where they are directly confronting someone whose point of view counters the foundational values, knowledge, and opinions the person has. It is uncomfortable.

    People build their store of knowledge onto several core assumptions or perceived truths. Such as: Man is spiritual, not material. That is a core assumption on which a lot of belief and knowledge can be based. I say “assumption” even though the person sees evidence that it is true. A materialist has the assumption that all is material – there are no extra-material explanations to existence, and therefore, we are NOT spiritual. This is a very different core assumption, and leads to a very different body of values, knowledge, and opinions. (This is all straight out of the Logics, by the way, and Stable Data and Ser Fac tech, too.)

    To be tolerant means:

    1. Confronting those with different core assumptions and beliefs as you.
    2. Being willing to understand what their core beliefs and values are.
    3. To be willing to reevaluate your own values, beliefs and opinions as a continual process of growing, but
    4. Not compromising your own reality.
    5. And ideally, finding commonality.

    There is almost always commonality. 2 1/2% of the time, not so much. But usually it is there. All this leads to more ARC, more understanding.

    So, the corporate church did none of this. The closest I ever saw was the International Prayer Day conference in 1976. And Heber Jentzsch, Mary Sue, and Diana. But whatever, we can do it!

  213. On the first point lighten up Ralph.

    On the second point I agree that Mayo just brushes the surface of the complete Squirreldom that Miscavige has taken the Church to under cover of Copyright protection and Tax Exemption.

    Ron talks about squirrels being parasitical and Miscavige has got to be the ultimate parasite since he’s effectively consumed the host.

  214. I believe this is the system where the PC sets up the meter and the auditor is on the other end. The PC would have to set up and operate the meter, but I believe new meters are used that are “automatic” with automatic TA adjustment so the pc wouldnt have to do much.

    I’m not sure how you would get instant reads or PC indicators over the internet.
    Maybe it’s better than nothing?

    I’ll probably stick to the old fashioned LRH methods of PC and auditor in the same place.

  215. Ralph, I’ve seen the Freezone technique of the PC setting up the meter on his end and the auditor being on the other end of the Skype connection. Maybe this would work somewhat, but I just don’t understand putting that via there. It could only interfere with the auditing comm cycle and session.
    What if you’re in the midle of something heavy and your computer, internet or something goes out?
    How do you deal with non-instant reads?
    PC indicators? It seems like the audio quality might distract from the session and put the PC’s attention on other things instead of on his case. The audio/video might not only have a delay, but a constantly changing delay due to internet. It seems like it throws a lot of other factors and complications into what should be a very simple thing.
    If we were in the same room I would just ask you this stuff and we would talk about it. Maybe I don’t get it.

  216. Awesome RJ

  217. plainoldthetan

    Grasshopper: I personally find that step 0 is important, in sequence.

    0. Actually knowing and being able to articulate your beliefs. Being able to discuss and explain your beliefs without resorting to fear or force.

    This means, for example, that one can say “the Universe becan 14 billion years ago according to current measurements” without having to resort to “LRH said it’s 76 trillion years old so that’s the truth” or “the Earth is 6000 years old because back-dating the events in the Torah says so and if you don’t believe that you’re going to hell”.

    In other words, I can recite what the belief documents say they say without having to discard contradictory data or defend voraciously the data from the belief documents.

    Anyone who’s done EM-25 knows that Scientology auditors are required to be able to date incidents into the hundreds of quadrillions of years. That’s a fact. (Open up a book of E-Meter drills if you want to see it for yourself.)

    Is that an inference that the Universe isn’t 14 billion years old? No. It’s an inference that thetans go back farther than that. It’s also a possible inference that the current science hasn’t advanced to the point where magnitudes of dates can agree between the two systems. After all, the universe (scientifically) has been getting older and older for the past 200 years. I expect that in the next decade, one or two more methods of dating the universe will arise, with the conclusion that’s its older than 14 billion years.
    (That’s part of my belief system, by the way.)

    The point is that I’ve examined what available information there is to hand and have come to a conclusion based on ALL the information I’ve examined. And therefore, it’s been used to formulate my belief system.

    If I run into someone who insists that the Earth is 6000 years old, then I understand why and whence they say that. Even though it collides with my belief system, I have the knowledge of how I arrived at my belief system and don’t even have to get into a pitched battle with the person.

    And it’s another reason I don’t argue with people who assign the label “crazy” to the data in the Scientology Upper Levels. I know they haven’t truly inspected that data (including Solo Auditing and repair auditing on persons in that band).

  218. Tony you’re *wrong* I wasn’t being serfacy at all 😉

    Anyway I didn’t know you’d done your levels.

    On that VWD!!!

    Now why don’t you take Jimbo’s advice and smoke a Habana Havana and get on course so as you can do your NED and Grad V?

    Lord knows we could use some more well trained auditors!

    Now ya got the opportunity to do it under one of the best Course Supes on the planet!

    By the way Jimbo are you going to be opening up your doors for some of us VIs so as we can do our VIII?

    Let me know.

    Ya got my email address.



  219. martyrathbun09

    POT, nice post.

  220. martyrathbun09

    I think you get it, exactly.

  221. Hi Trey,
    I read many of your success stories and I think you’re doing a fabulous job. For more than a decade I had given up hope for standard auditing and training but I see that you’re one of the few that does deliver upper Bridge and L’s.

    It’s no surprise they burnt you the way they’ve done with all producing auditors but it looks like that panned out quite spectacular with you now delivering the L’s and Super Power. Looks like Marty, you and one or two others saved the upper Bridge for us.
    It’s awesome and I might have to reorient my admin scale. Does Marty already link your group or site?

  222. I agree Erwin.

    This free market model may work for PCs and Pre OTs.

    (It’s pretty much proven that they prefer Scientology as opposed to the inferior or more accurately *overt* product offered by the orgs these days.)

    But on training lines it in my opinion it would be a complete and unmitigated catastrophe!

    “Training” people on what’s popular or the most hip and trendy or whatever!

    I think Ron mentions this in KSW.

    Also I know for a fact that “Golden Age of Tech” was actually based on a survey and that the so called “eval” was nothing but a false flag and truth be told it was very “popular” in the beginning.

    In fact I was caught up in the total ra! ra! myself even though I knew after watching the Vid (I was in Arizona at the time the Golden Age of Tech was released) that there were many things wrong with these new drills but upon returning LA I was caught up in the infectious hoopla at PAC and invalidated my own knowingness and ignored Ron’s warnings about a group devising unworkable technology to replace a workable technology.

    Well anyway that’s the sad story of how I was suckered into signing up for the Golden Age of Tech’s (UN)Certainty courses against my better judgement.

    Worse I paid more for this squirrel training exercise than I did for all my previous training combined.

    Not only that but spent longer on the courses than I did on my original Saint Hill course even though the quote Certainty unquote courses were supposedly a “retread”.

    Yet ’cause everybody was doing it back then it must be a good thing.

    Yeah right!

    That was until I ran into the myriad of gross technical alterations known as “drills”.

    In fact most of my time on course was consumed by writing ‘Out Tech’ reports and “Technical Queries” on many of the alterations and additives to standard technical procedures until I rediscovered HCOPL 16 April 1965 Issue II and literally demanded that these drills be canceled according to that policy and the HCOB “How to Defeat Verbal Tech”.

    Well of course I became as unpopular as a skunk at a picnic at that point and was threatened with no further auditing on the Grade Chart unless I accepted the infallible and infinite wisdom of RTC and RTRC.

    Fat chance!

    So the problem is that the “free market” basically responds to trends and what is considered popular not necessarily what *works* and those of us who have practiced unaltered Scientology know it works all you have to do is give any student coming into Jimbo’s and any of the other course rooms that’ll be springing up in the future the certainty that it does and that they can get spectacular results with it and you can forget about wringing your hands over this “free market” BS.

    Because the fact is that *Standard Scientology* really has no competitor.

    My 2 cents.

  223. I agree DFB.

    Too much of a chance of reads getting messed up by slow packets if the meter is connected to the net.

    Aside from the fact that I’ve never trusted these meters that “automatically” adjust the TA.

    Why can’t the Pre OT learn how to adjust the tone arm him or herself?

    Otherwise solely as a look in system to make sure the Pre OT isn’t snapping his or her gum or using their emeter cans as an ashtray or reading a Mad Magazine instead of a platen then I’d say it was fine.

    It could also be used for auditing session as well for similar reasons.

    But until *instant* is actually *instant* in real time on the net then I’d say skip trying to use it to monitor reads or even indicators etc.

  224. Why do you think onley Anons have Youtube accounts ? Or maybe he or she is an Anonymous Scientologist 😉

  225. Right,
    When GAT was released I wasn’t so much in Tech queries (I depended on Grad V’s to write them) and thus I skippered as quick as possible out of the course room to get away from my uncertainty supervisors. I thought: good that I now have the patter and good riddens of those drills and idiotic checkouts, let’s get some auditing done in the internship.

    But Davey had booby trapped that as well. I remember my first 10 sessions rated VWD with flying pc’s and rave attests; man I loved auditing and rewarded myself with a new suit! Then my sup told me to make video’s and there the F/N incomprehensibilities started.

    I was forced to do the Ethics Specialist course and ironically it was a present from heaven. I could then easily decide to not return, regardless of my Bridge; I had learned too much, especially about Sups, D of P’s, C/Ses and RTC.

    I haven’t set foot in a Church ever since and carried the F/N mystery along for another 10 years, training myself by Ron and Ron’s word alone. Every time a reg called to evaluate for me as to what Ron meant by quoting him, I cut him off. The F/N mystery solved only quite recently reading Steve’s and Marty’s blogs (you cleared up a lot as well).

    You’re right that free market Scientology will fail for obvious reasons but tolerance toward new and free groups will win. Not that those groups will accomplish a lot of Standard Tech or rave results but it’s a very good starters line to move all involved a little higher, gradient by gradient. And above all, (legally) independent groups can’t be raided, plucked or destroyed by higher orgs. The only question remaining then is when to call it Scientology but it’ll work out.

  226. Tony DePhillips

    I just may do that RJ…

  227. Jim Logan | March 4, 2011 at 1:41 pm | Reply

    Your lines are down. Call not able to be completed. Try again, complete the cycle or it’s a saaaaammmmack upside your tea drinkin’, ‘pudding’ eatin’ melon.

    Beg pardon Jim.

  228. Tony DePhillips

    You are a smart guy GH.
    I agree with everything you said here.
    Have a nice weekend.

  229. Thanks Erwin, you can contact me at if you have any
    admin scale questions.

  230. That is true. It is important to know what you know (and know what you believe) and be humble in your knowledge.

    Now that I am much more mature in my thinking and beliefs, I enjoy looking at other ideas and thoughts. I mean, there is a branch of Islam that apparently believes that the entire universe is recreated every instant, instant by instant, and Allah makes each iteration connected so we don’t go crazy. But, sometimes He creates the next instant radically different from the previous, and so creates miracles. Is that cool, or what? That to me is fascinating.

    Even Scientists are beginning to project back before the big bang, and are postulating an endless cycle of bang/collapse/bang/collapse. Also, we may not be in “the” universe. There are postulates that we are in “a” universe – one (or several) of many. Modern physics is as crazy sounding as any OT level out there.

    All this is interesting. Much of it is feasible. Why argue?

    And, what is workable is workable. If someone audits a past life, or an incident that is supposedly before this universe, and it immeasurably helps the person, then the important thing is that it helped the person.

  231. I’ve pondered the apparent contradictions in the dates and come to the conclusion that the big bang was a local event affecting a small roughly spherical area some 30 billion light years across. That is the extent of what current science is capable of measuring. The universe, or perhaps the Pan- univrse composed of the set of all universes is quite probably considerably larger in space and spans a far greater period.

    In dating and location we may well be making adjustments to fit our current reality. Anyone who has done a fair bit of dating and locating on PCS will have observed that a BD F/N can often occur on physically impossible data such as a location on another planet 2 million kilometers away. I feel that our realities have considerable scope for expansion.

  232. I thought the concept of the universe being recreated every instant was fundamental to Scientology too? 🙂

  233. martyrathbun09

    I think you are right Ralph.

  234. Thanks,
    I’ll safe your email, not for my admin scale but in the future I might contact you for other cycles. I always wanted the L’s and delivering super power seems awesome.

  235. Sapere Aude

    GH, Ralph, Marty,
    I find this absolutely fascinating. In modern physics there is a theory called many world’s interpretation. I will put the link to it, the observer effect and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The many world’s interpretation, MWI, would explain all of these dating facts.

    In layman’s terms, there is a very large—perhaps infinite[9]—number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but didn’t, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes.

    MWI response: Everett analysed branching using what we now call the “measurement basis”. It is fundamental theorem of quantum theory that nothing measurable or empirical is changed by adopting a different basis.

    But the fact is the time can change, the measurement in years can change, and this is irrelevant to me if the case gain is made and the incident or whatever is “stuck” there is observed to the point that it blows and the being is freed from its effects.

    With multiple universes, past and present occurring together yet different then the process just does what it does. The mechanics are what the doubter is stuck in. Those who make such arguments really don’t understand the concepts of modern science which does allow for all of what this discussion has brought up.

    Thanks guys – this was nice!

  236. martyrathbun09

    Yes, read. Science is beginning to catch up with the PDC.

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