Truth Revealed about OT VIII


Let me tell you why David Miscavige’s personal staff are currently jet setting all around the world desperately trying to drive OT VIIIs and OT VIIs back into the implant pen. Disappointed, confused, invalidated and in some cases simply broken OT VIIs and OT VIIIs have been coming to Casablanca in increasing numbers . While getting repaired and rehabbed we have been able to pretty much fully map the David Miscavige Black Dianetics version of “OT levels.”

We have discovered that David Miscavige has altered the Bridge in such a perverse and diabolical fashion that the “new” End Phenomenon of OT VIII lays in a dastardly implant. This explains why some OT VIIIs have dutifully agreed to start the Bridge over again like so many squirrels in a cage. And it explains why those who have not been successfully implanted have been left in a state of confusion (they had enough theta – and understanding of Scientology – left to resist being thrust from the prior confusion into the implant).

Sometime between 1988 when OT VIII was first released and early in the new millennium (if not earlier) Miscavige ALTERED the End Phenomena of OT VIII so as to reverse its effect. This truth has been revealed by the combined testimonies of more than a dozen OT VIIIs who completed the level as early as 1988 and as late as 2010.

Combined with the experience of a couple dozen folks who have spent decades on OT VII we have discovered how the NOTs band has been twisted to gradually create a confusion that serves as the prior confusion for the laying in of an implant on OT VIII. The operation is so dark and suppressive as to be difficult to confront. It explains why the NOTS band has been made more arduous the longer one is on it – the precise opposite effect of any auditing (including once NOTS and SOLO NOTS while L Ron Hubbard was around).

Let me draw some analogies for those not yet at NOTS or above. For those who are Clear but not OT, imagine your NED case becoming more solid and more arduous to address the further through NED you went. For those who have received Grades auditing, imagine each Grade becoming more difficult to confront and feeling massier and more suppressed as you move “up” the Bridge. Imagine in both scenarios that while the above is going on you are feeling progressively less self and pan determined and more other determined. Imagine that you are becoming more compliant and less free thinking and less and less able to differentiate and disagree.

Those who have entered the NOTS band and spent much time on it within Scientology Inc need no analogy. You have lived (or are living) it.

And we know the half dozen curve balls that have been entered into the NOTS band line-up by David Miscavige to create that effect.

The implant conditions an “OT VIII” to believe that he or she needs to start at the bottom of the Bridge over again, Purification Rundown, Objectives, etc, and an unhealthy dose of FPRD to boot. Miscavige’s bridge to nowhere is in fact not a bridge at all, but instead a squirrel cage. When you are done, you start all over again. He has “OT VIIIs” attest to something that carries with it awareness characteristics resembling those of someone newly entering Scientology at the very entrance to the Bridge. My post about OT VIIIs being routinely put onto Objectives was one of the most visited and commented upon posts in the 18 month history of this blog. See,

Now we know why it resonated with OT’s. Miscavige has convinced those who sit still for the implant that they need to gear up to slam their attention deep down the track and they need to up their confront for the task. The implication is they need this to apparently alleviate amnesia to get the answer to a question OTV III has always promised to answer. After OT VIII. And that is why so many OT VIIIs have felt such a deep-seated sense of betrayal and confusion upon completion of the level.

Now, wait a second! Didn’t L Ron Hubbard state that OT VIII Truth Revealed addresses and handles the reason for amnesia on the Whole Track? As a matter of fact here is what the currently published Grade Chart states under the “ability gained” column for OT VIII: Handles the primary reason for amnesia on the whole track.

We have experienced many tipping points over the past two years on our quest to salvage the subject of Scientology from the jaws of death. This point is different. This is the make-break point. The implant is known. Its remedy is simple. Beings can be and are being set free of this nefarious operation. They will continue to be forever. How do I know? Too many OT VIIIs already know the score. And believe me, they won’t forget. Because they now do know the reason for amnesia on the Whole Track – they have experienced it and survived it in real time – and they aren’t about to ever let it happen again.

I suggest none of us ever lose sight of what LRH said on the Class VIII course aboard the Apollo in 1968:

So anyway, Scientology is well named.  It is the road to truth.  It is a study of the truth. And total truth is total power. And when the guy hasn’t got any lies left in him he’s OT.  And all the mechanics of OT work out too. So, the subject is very, very well named.

447 responses to “Truth Revealed about OT VIII

  1. becomingAware


    VWD for discovering the Why and helping others!
    Was the little guy just lucky or does he have some help in perverting the tech? This is a trap of some magnitude as you have stated. The way out is the way in and on goes the circle until your money is gone and/or the being has been pushed in to a non-threatening lump.

    I’m somewhat speechless right now. Until later . . .

    david lingenfelter

  2. martyrathbun09

    It is a long story. But, he’s been working on it – more reactively than analytically – over thirty years.

  3. Pingback: Truth Revealed about OT VIII (via Moving On Up a Little Higher) « My LRH

  4. It would have been so much easier for DM to have operated on another stat than Advanced Tech VSD (the main stat of RTC and the one his personal bonuses were based on), such as one relating to raw public dissemination. Instead, now he is desperate to keep the cash flowing his way and the Craig Jensens and Rex Fowlers of the world are too dumb (and too rich) to see what is going on. The herd of milkable cows is thinning fast and Farmer Dave’s strategy is to keep tugging on fewer and fewer teats. The “beauty” of FPRD, from a GI standpoint, is that it is unlimited. To quote Gelda Mithoff, “You can always find another purp to run.”
    I have been contacted by inactive VIIs who said there have been reaches from Flag and elsewhere to round up the VIIs and VIIIs.
    Thanks for this, Marty. It explains what I was getting wind of separately.

  5. Tony DePhillips

    Brilliant Marty!
    I am so happy to be connected to a guy like you who has the intelligence and the intetinal fortitude to keep looking and debugging this shit hole that dm has gotten us into. (and that we allowed to occur)
    It is so true, the minute you get away from all the inval, money grubbing, bad control, etc. that the cult of cabbage offers the better and better you do.
    Since seeing you and applying the tech that I know and help from others I have totally rehabbed the gains I should have been getting in the church.
    What dm has done will go down in history as some of the most vile evil perpetrated on Beings known to man and Thetans.

  6. Tony DePhillips

    OT’s, do what Forest did and run away from the suppression!!
    Run OT’s! Run!!

  7. Holy crap Batman! Pow!
    Thank you for nailing it and communicating it to the world!
    I imagined myself as you suggested and can only imagine how sick they must feel with this.
    I hope this truth spreads far and wide and gives some LONG awaited relief to a whole lot of OTs. I really really do. I know they’re suffering deeply no matter how they try to PR it…

  8. Scott Campbell

    Raise your hand if you think that there is anyone in the universe who would have a vested interest in preventing L. Ron Hubbard from freeing the inmates on this prison planet called earth.

    Marty stated above: “We have discovered that David Miscavige has altered the Bridge in such a perverse and diabolical fashion that the “new” End Phenomenon of OT VIII lays in a dastardly implant.”

    Either Miscavige is an SP of the grandest proportions or is a “Body in Pawn” to an SP outside of this system who likes things just the way they are.


  9. As a non OT level PC I am finding this facinating, and tragic, at the same time. I am glad that I will be doing my OT levels in the independent field.
    I sense that these exposures will catapault another dozen or so OT’s into the indy field quite soon.

    Great work.

  10. Centurion, interesting I stayed far far away from OT levels in David Miscavige’s place. I attested to OT Preps twice but just couldn’t bring myself to go on. I am sooooo glad I didn’t! I rathered have NONE.

  11. Tony DePhillips

    Run and Key-out and then fight back!
    Bots don’t fight back, OT’s do.

  12. Never ascribe to conspiracy what mere incompetence can explain.

    What I don’t get is why, after so many years and so many “OT”s, why doesn’t some loyal Sea Org guy demonstrate the powers they are supposed to have gained? Wouldn’t that be a legitimate use of OT powers to improve the 8th dynamic?

    Instead of hiring private investigators, an OT could certainly exteriorize and find out the whereabouts of whomever he were seeking. DM doesn’t do that, nor does anyone in the CoS.

    And if an OT could do psychic investigating, certainly an OT could make life difficult for those who would try to stalk or harass him. Being at cause over MEST would imply being able to make cars not start, stall traffic lights, jam cell phones, or perhaps even cause blinding headaches in people.

    Instead of hiring lawyers to harass people, an OT could make someone’s life a living Hell by disrupting the MEST around the person. But DM doesn’t do that, either.

    In fact, by their actions, the CoS clearly demonstrates that they are most emphatically NOT “at cause over MEST”, at ALL. They have to hire lawyers and PIs in order to have any effect in MEST.

  13. Claudio & Renata Lugli

    Ciao Marty & Mosey,
    we really miss YOU !!!!!!!
    Our stay at CASABLANCA was fantastic and we are really happy to have two friends like you.
    The time we spent sharing our point of views has been really, really intense and very fullfilling. That said, since the topics we touched were many, I want to validate your analisys of OT VIII. But I want to add to that something:
    David Miscavige betrayed our trust. He “set us up” for failure. He is a liar of GIGANTIC proportions.
    Because he is dishonest ! Because he thinks we are ALL stupid. So since we are NOT stupid, he needs to make us BECAME stupid, less able, ignorant, ad infinitum . And he is achieving that using BLACK DIANETICS, so that when one reaches the “top” of the Bridge in reality has reached the bottom.
    Is crashed, pennyless, controlled, in fear of acting, other determined. Now you can put him as you say in the squirrel cage.
    So David Miscavige is a specialist in IMPLANTING. He has no interest in freeing people, because to do that you need to adress truth and nothing less than truth.
    He specializes in LIES.
    So the EP of OT VIII cannot be achieved in Scientology INC.
    But is for sure available in the INDIPENDENT field.
    We want TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH.
    We are getting it REVEALED!
    Claudio & Renata

  14. Marty — I attested to OTVIII in the early days — not maiden voyage but close.
    The day after my announcement, I couldn’t get out of bed. I felt as if I had taken a handful of downers. The room was rocking. I have never felt so gawd awful in my life. My roommate wanted me to see the examiner.

    I said — oh no. It’s JUST salt depletion, after all I was outside a bunch yesterday waiting for my OK to attest.

    And I took glass after glass of salt water. I would have taken a tanker of salt water rather than see the examiner.

    The ONLY thing I wanted to do was get the hell off that ship and as fast as possible. It took about 2 or 3 days for this hell to pass.

    And off I went. Months later I returned for some BS or another which had “just been discovered” … and all of us were recalled to get this NEW thing.

    It took about 2 years or so for my mind to completely CRACK — I remember HEARING it one night — CRACK …

    And about 7 years for me to piece it back together.

    I have no regrets. There is nothing quite like losing everything including your mind to appreciate the sun in the morning, the wind on your back and your real friends.

    Others sadly haven’t been as lucky as I am. Some have died too early, some have gone mad and not recovered, others are shells of their former selves but guaranteed NONE are vibrant, alive and what LRH intended.

    Those OT VIIIs who are standing, functioning and doing well — I’m betting are only those who’ve been to Casablanca … OR found some other path.

    OT VIII as it was given to me, to others and what exists today IN dm Inc is dangerous. If you love your friends, warn them.

    Thanks Marty. Just reading this was extremely difficult for me — remembering the Freewinds, and those 3 days of hell on downers … I would never wish on my worst enemy. Not even dm.


  15. Scott Campbell

    “And so the work [Scientology] has emerged free of taint and misguided slants. It is itself. It does what it says it does. It contains no adroit curves to make one open to better believing some “ism.” That makes it singular today in a world gone mad with nationalism. Buddhism, when it came to the millions, was no longer free of slant and prejudice. Taoism itself became a national jingoism far from any work of Lao-Tze. Even Christianity had its “pitch.” And if these great works became curved, with all the personal force of their creators, how is it that our little triumph here can still be found in a clear state?

    Well, no diamonds and palaces have been accepted from rajahs, no gratuitous printing of results has been the gift of warlords, no testament had to be written 300 years after the fact.

    For this we can thank Johann Gutenberg, and the invention of magnetic tape.

    Therefore, although we have no such stature as the Great Philosophies, I charge you with this—look to source writings, not to interpretations. Look to the original work, not offshoots.

    If I have fought for a quarter of a century, most of it alone, to keep this work from serving to uphold the enslavers of Man, to keep it free from some destructive “pitch” or slant, then you certainly can carry that motif a little further.

    I’ll not always be here on guard. The stars twinkle in the Milky Way and the wind sighs for songs across the empty fields of a planet a Galaxy away.

    You won’t always be here.

    But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons — “The work was free. Keep it so.” — L. Ron Hubbard

  16. martyrathbun09

    WH, I wish you could free up just a couple days for a Casablanca trip.

  17. martyrathbun09

    Ciao Renata and Claudio, We miss you already! Fix your tickets so you come back on the way home too. The truth shall set us free.

  18. martyrathbun09

    You da man, Scott.

  19. Very wise, Tara, very wise.

    Your perceptions of the tyrant’s supressive tentacles reaching into the OT leves were spot on. I knew a few OT VII’s who outright quit the level because they had enough and were just going nuts on it. So many arbitraries were in play, and it was costing them a fortune. We know that story, huh?

  20. Windhorse, at what point did you come to realize that it was not you, that others were also having terrible results, that it was actually a perpetration?

  21. So Marty,

    What’s so great here is that you are in alignment with what LRH meant when he stated that freeing people and making them more individually able equals a better universe for your own self. (I don’t have the quote but you get the idea).

    DM, of course, has it exactly backwards.

  22. Renata Lugli

    Just to add a FACT to this very SAD scene I have to say what I saw:
    two friends of mine came back from OT VIII and were in tears over it.
    Another friend of mine after a month that was back from “New” OT VIII (second time tru) DIED.
    I am not happy to say those things, but the subject we are dealing with calls for it and is the truth.

  23. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    For me DM IS A WHOLE TRACK SP! He’s just too grooved into destroying Scientology (LRH’s) than can be justified by thinking that he hasn’t been doing major damage on the whole track all along. Again, my think/knowingness.


  24. Scott Campbell


    To quote Sue Price, “Scott Campbell, this is a Mutiny!”

    That’s right bitch. And LRH is leading it.


  25. Thanks again, Marty.
    Your data series is most definitely “IN.”

    What LRH warns about in this quote, and what he says to do, is being done by yourself and other brave souls on a daily basis. As they might say in Texas, “I applaud Y’all.”


    “Aberration itself must be calculated to occur. The existence of a Time Track only makes it possible for it to occur and be retained. Thus a thetan’s first real mistake is to consider his own pictures and their recorded events important, and his second mistake is in not obliterating entrapment activities in such a way as not to become entrapped or aberrated in doing so, all of which can be done and should be.”

  26. Marty,
    Can you help fill in a few gaps in my understanding of things. In LRH’s final tape in 1985, he said that “OT VIII is complete” and it was handed over to management.
    I guess I just don’t get why there were so many versions of OT VIII after this. Were the instructions not clear?
    Can you give a bit of mass/data on how OT VIII was “handed over”, who was involved, who was responsible for it’s compilation, etc. etc.

  27. I posted much of this earlier, but it bears repeating in context with today’s blog.

    The more you read of Miscavige’s conduct, the more one sees how unworkable it is to have an organization with no oversight and a madman running the show helter skelter, willy nilly with the battered SO members around doing his will.

    What is going on with the so called “Board of Directors” of CST ? CSI ? RTC ?
    This site explains more ~~

    Is the “Board of Directors ” just puppets and names on paper with no regular meetings, no power, just made up names of no consequence ? Normally a Board of Directors has the power to remove the
    President, the CEO, the man running the show when misconduct abounds.
    Miscavige’s misconduct, assault and battery, MAD seances of punching, beating, humiliating INT BASE Sea Org members by reading their confessional masturbation to the crew, rip off of Parishioner Funds to live like a Rock Star, using Sea Org Labor for TOM CRUISE real estate stats violating the 501C3 has been reported over and over and over .What is going on ?

    FSO continues to rake in $2million to $3 million a week (which by the way was their stat some 15 years ago) but it is still significant revenues from just services, this does not calculate donations for IAS world wide, Super Power Building, Library scams, and all the other reasons to milk the Parishioner funds. Who knows that the total revenue SCAMMED in weekly is counting all the raping of funds for “Ideal Orgs?

    No oversight, no audit of any financial irregularities, PRIVATE INNUREMENTS for DM’s personal gain and advantage has slowly escalated year by year by year.

    There is a complacency that DM’s Church is ABOVE THE LAW.

    Cruelty, sadism, perverting the tech, incarcerating SO members for YEARS in the RPF and so on have no WATCHDOG, no oversight, no appeal process, DM misusing the perverting funds for his own gain and his own protection via high priced lawyers to cover his misdeeds……truly a COMPLACENCY has set in.

    Marty, Mike Rinder and the other high profile ex so who speak out have somewhat jarred that complacency.

    But the fact that DM can continue to escalate his sadism, whimsically declare a Clear (Lisa McPherson) undeclare Case Levels verbally on the spot, show that there are no CHECKS and BALANCES to keep this Reptilian Predator in line.

    We have all seen what happened to WALL STREET and the Banks with no REGULATIONS and improper oversight ~~the sub prime mortgage fiasco. It brought the country to the edge….

    Not only is DM content recklessly doing what he orders with the $$$$$$, but asserting himself as source to change technology. 3 needle swings is sabotage to every single session ~~ painful over run with the pc more charged up than before he started the session.

    When a NOTS INDOC is given, it is no longer red on white with signatures of LRH ~~ the issues are BLACK on WHITE authored by no one.

    A continuous permissiveness of leaving DM at the helm will lead to a DMpocalyse unless INTERVENTION occurs and I acknowledge and support all those working on that and those that step out and publicly state they will no longer be part of DM’s game.

  28. 😦 I’m glad you un-cracked yourself! 🙂

  29. Marty,
    Anita wanted me to let you know that last post was from me, not her:)

  30. DM’s treachery has disgraced us!

  31. My understanding is Marty was elsewhere. From what has come to light, yes you have what the LRH lecture has.

    Now who did he hand it over to? And what were the conditions at the time?

    Now bear with me on the following because I am doing this on recall to save you the fun of reading this entire blog, which is a worthwhile endeavor, but is a long way to answer your question.

    Tom M was I/C for service delivery of the level I think that’s what he said, something like that, and was on hand to hear then current Snr C/S Int Jeff Walker remark that it was only half what Ron intended. Where is Jeff now?

    Take the above questions, the few tidbits I mentioned and add Marty’s observation that DM has been working on this for over 3 decades. In those 3 decades DM has been perfecting the science of overwhelm — another earlier post. And then for myself, by the time I began to suspect what was up, well, there had been a whole lotta damage. I wasn’t supposed to see it coming and I didn’t. My bad. I am here now. Oops, this is becoming a soap box. Sorry.

    Oh. And for whatever reason(s), folks have been leaving the church for over 2 decades, some choosing to still deliver services based on LRH.

    I was not supposed to learn that either. Why do you suppose that is?

    That’s what we have to work with.

    Bruce Pratt

  32. Yes, you are right Marty. And all of the promo pre Maiden Voyage stated FREEDOM FROM AMNESIA ON THE WHOLE TRACK.

    A few weeks after Maiden Voyage I saw an OT8 , at the Sandcastle. He had just finished OT8. It was Bernard from Mexico. He said he was at the Sandcastle to do grade zero. He passed away shortly thereafter.

    Anyway, I start asking, loudly, “If OT8 handles Freedom from amnesia on the wholetrack, why are they still being put on an emeter? Right? Duh> If you don’t have amnesia you can recall anything at will right?

    Anyway, bam! All the promo was pulled!

    Next! New promo! ” OT8 is “truth revealed”.

    The whole bait and switch.

    All of the hundreds and hundreds of Scientologists who donated 40,000 to hundreds of thousands for the promise of OT8 to handle “amnesia on the whole track” actually had the promise change to “truth revealed”.

    You know what truth got revealed to them?

    After they returned home they called and told they had to go back onto OTVll.

    And how many of them are still there running with the herd and will not LOOK at what is being revealed to them about the organization on this blog?
    Do those people look like they are up to truth revealed having?

    Thank you! Thank you for bringing this up. I can’t tell you how many people have denied there was ever a promise of “freedom from amnesia on the whole track for OT8”! STAFF!

  33. Scott Campbell

    One, two
    One, two, three, four

    In the hole again
    Just can’t wait to get in the hole again
    The life I love is making money for my friend
    And I can’t wait to get in the hole again

    In the hole again
    Goin’ places that I’ve been again and again
    Seein’ things that I hope I never see again
    And I can’t wait to get in the hole again

    In the hole again
    Like a band of grifters we go down the highway
    We’re the worst of friends
    Insisting that the world keep turning our way – and Dave’s way

    I’m in the hole again
    I just can’t wait to get in the hole again
    The life I love is making money with my friends
    And I can’t wait to get in the hole again

    In the hole again
    It’s either my way or the highway
    We should betray our friends
    Insisting that the world keep paying punk pay – that’s our way

    I’m in the hole again
    Just can’t wait to get in the hole again
    The life I love is making money for my friend
    And I can’t wait to get in the hole again
    And I can’t wait to get in the hole again…

  34. Scott Campbell

    Listen to that tape again, “vewwwy cawefuwwy”.

    Sorry for the Fudd mock-up, Jim. I couldn’t resist.

  35. Marty – on behalf of the rest of mankind, thank you for digging in and finding the implant. You probably just saved the whole human race.

    I was the mission I/C for the release of OTVIII in 1988. I was actually working in the HGC with the 179 public that went onto the original VIII and I remember vividly that these public, while being VGIs, were a bit disappointed. I could feel it. After all, I know that I waited 18 years for for VIII and I knew it was going to be a major blowout. But alas, it was not. Then Jeff Walker tells me that VIII is cut in half and not the real VIII. It was hard for me to confront him even saying that to me. But now, I don’t know if he even knew what really happened there.

    It is hard to confront that this SP actually changed the top of the grade chart into an implant. This is not your garden variety SP. This is one of them whole track, big time crusader SPs. It makes sense now Marty. It makes sense that it would be that diabolical.


    ML Tom

  36. Scott Campbell


    You’re right. That could be the case too. Anything is possible.

    I just want to remind people to put their anchor points out in order to gain some perspective on this cycle.

    That being said, the only beings that CAN help us get out of this trap are Auditors – using standard LRH tech.


  37. scilonschools

    Thank you for thus insight Marty,
    It does help explain how so many people who seemed to be making a success of their lives and buisness suddenly appear to lose all creativity and decision making abilaties that are neccessary for the aforementioned.
    fundamentally an enslaved drones cannot create they can only exist in a parasitic enviroment feeding (and sucking the life out) those below them.
    DM’s version of ‘Scientology’ would ultimately fall by it’s own devices but what misery it would create for humanity in the process is unbearable to imagine!
    I hope your ‘OT inoculation’ program is able to arrest and reverse this misguided cycle of evil.

  38. Tony DePhillips

    LOL!! 🙂

  39. Since my life got ruined at Flag, I will not let anybody touch me. I was able to sort things out by myself when I realized, I AM CAUSE and the ‘services’ I received at Flag made me EFFECT and quite intentionally so. The point is, The Church of $ does NOT want to make free beings. They want to destroy you, make you into a $lave. No thanks.

  40. scilonschools

    One thing i have often wondered, are there different versions of the OT levels, tailor made with ‘additional’ releases, depending on the branch/role that DM has ‘decided’ you should perform in his CoM?
    The experinces and reaction to the OT levels seem so different to different people, for some heaven and for some hell, putting diffences in each ‘Being’ aside for a moment, it just seems odd the extreme different responses to what in theory is the same Tech with the same objectives?

  41. One of the most hideous things about the disastrous results on OT VIII is that “you’re not supposed to tell.” Don’t talk about your case, if you’re having trouble get more sec-checking, rely on the C/S to decide what is best for you, don’t talk about confidential materials, not even with another OT. This one factor alone is a masterpiece for isolating those who are in trouble. It is the same technique used by the child-molester, “Don’t tell, don’t talk about it.” Only this is the work of the mind-molester.

    Thankfully you and many others are standing up and speaking out to name the torture and bring it to an end.

  42. This is significant and a hell of an indictment against the CofM. It explains a lot, too.

  43. I met some recent swedish OT VIII completions and I was wondering why they were acting so stiffly.

    Off topic win: I just received confirmation that my SP-declare was typed out and posted on the Stockholm org notice board! I have been waiting to hear this good news. This means I have been a pain in their asses, that’s what it means, and that’s all I wanted to hear.

  44. From my own observations there have been way too many people who developed cancer on 7 & 8. It seemed epidemic. I know one person who has been on 7 for over 16 years and now they want her to do OT 4 again. Infact, it is now a trend. She already had to redo the clearing course. Unfortunately, she thinks DM is God – like. Talk about a reversal! I’m glad all the OT8’s who have been through the ringer are speaking out. What about the guys who finish and don’t have this phenonomena? I do know a few who look good and have had wins, although I’m sure they must be in the minority.

  45. The price for freedom, constant alertness…….!!!!: Boards don`t fight back!!
    Best fight scene ever!! stunning speed, Bruce was OT on martial arts.

  46. Way to go Marty!!! This is very valuable find.

  47. scilonschools

    Keep Replanting That Forest at Casablanca Tejas

  48. Scott,

    My hand is raised.

    “Either Miscavige is an SP of the grandest proportions or is a “Body in Pawn” to an SP outside of this system who likes things just the way they are.”—- I’ve speculated and wondered about this, too.

    I know that I was utterly repulsed by DM the first time I saw/heard him speak. I withdrew from the official Church almost totally from that moment, but not from friends. I figured sooner or later, he would go away, but I never imagined the extent of the damage he might do.

    I will say for the first time in many years I’ve begun to contemplate again continuing up the OT levels – and maybe it will be in this lifetime after all! Yeah, Marty! and others keeping Scientology working!

  49. Sounds good. But what about old OTs in the Sea Org or public Scientologist OT VIIIs who did nothing or not too much against DM so far or until the “rebellion” started with the Independent movement? Still I do not hear much OT VIIIs raising their voices.

  50. I am not OT but can or could do things that can be considered as OT abilites. I do not agree with your point here that OTs should engage in those hidden actions against others. May I give you an example of how things can be handled. As I gained some abilities I found out that I am very good at controlling people. Especially in discos I encountered very often situations where mad men wanted to beat me up. Wanted to have a physical fight with me. Even in the underground. I could handle it „OT“ like. Felt very pround of myself that I can handle those situations. Some day I found out that I created those situations myself in order to proove that I can handle those mad men with my „OT powers“. At that point I could and did stop that and never again had been in a situation I had to use my „OT“ powers to handle mad men. You see? A beginner OT may do this. He runs around and demonstrates to himself and others how BIG and how OT he is by handling it „OT“ like. In the orgs they run around screaming and shouting and they are tough. That is not OT. I am personally not very good at controlling MEST. But what I have left as abilites I use it to repair electronics and not to break electronics. And if I cannot repair it without tools I can at least look into the machine and find the faulty part without an oscilloscope and then handle it the usual way by replacing that part.

  51. theo Sismanides

    Marty thank you very much for getting into every nook and cranny of Miscavige’s Black Dianetics and Scientology Operation.

    As with the translations (an issue I know first hand) Miscavige has laid hands and thrown in curve balls in almost every major areas of the Tech. He is the ultimate SP and ultimate Squirrel who is at least visible. I don’t know what’s behind Miscavige. I have said that many times.

    But with the facts given in hand he is the Target right now. It is great that you are highly trained and so we can undo the trap. A lot lies on your hands and shoulders and all of us should assist you because you really have a lot on your plate.

    It’s very encouraging that OT VIIs and VIIIs can be rehabilitated in Casablanca. This is the whole idea why we all came into Scientology. To learn to find the truth and learn to throw away lies.

    I salute you from Greece in awe as with all the things that are happening around the Globe and especially the Japan disaster and I am calling all Independents to see to it that Scientology is not just Marty right now and that we should ALL pitch in and per the Admin Tech start delivering more and more no matter what. I may be almost on my own here, not much active either, but I do know my stuff on the Org Board and I know that this shit is serious business and the Org Board is the Awareness Characteristics of the Bridge. And when LRH said let’s build a better bridge he probably also meant let’s build light organizations around the world where people can find some safe place to go up the Bridge. The Org Board is an integral part of every human endeavor since we, thetans, live in groups and thus taking responsibility for the group is organizing it.

    Again Marty thank you so much for keeping up with all the Tech issues and such an important one like that. Miscavige is an Implanter.

  52. dm is the main character in the III incident.

  53. Therefore, he destroys the technology that can set people free.
    He is dramatizing his enslavement game.

  54. Joe Pendleton

    Thank you Marty for being there and doing what you do.

    To me, much of this comes down to Scientology Axiom #2. Do you recognize and respect my right as a being to have my own viewpoint, my own opinions, create my own postulates and universe? Do you grant me the beingness to at least recognize (if you don’t respect it) that I have achieved enough case gain and wisdom in all my decades in Scientology to even HAVE a self-determined life? When a number of Sea Org teenagers began yelling at me and asserting quite the opposite, VERY suddenly (because I had not been planning it) I knew that my active life in the C of S had come to an end. I mention every couple of months or so the very corrupting influence of BIG money in religion and all the physical perks that go along with it (the private air travel, clothes, motorcycles, posh offices and quarters – and don’t underestimate what must be the most heady feeling of all for a very aberrated being as Miscavige walks onstage like Mussolini and controls the lives of thousands of people who hail him as the current savior of this sector of the universe).

    The eventual survival of Scientology technology lies with those folks who are simply interested in continued further spiritual enlightenment and have the goals of more self-determinism and increased freedom/pleasure in existence AND of course have a great desire to help others also gain these abilites as well.

  55. martyrathbun09

    Joe wrote: “The eventual survival of Scientology technology lies with those folks who are simply interested in continued further spiritual enlightenment and have the goals of more self-determinism and increased freedom/pleasure in existence AND of course have a great desire to help others also gain these abilites as well.”

  56. Marty,

    You stated that this implant was laid in on New OT VIII. Was it also in some way present in OT V or OT VII?

    The reason I ask is I had this VERY SAME phenomena occur while I was on OT VII. The level got tougher and tougher. So bad that I finally refused to run any NOTS charge and I “declared myself” not Clear. I wrote it all to my C/S who agreed and put me on NED. I was very happy, at first, as I felt,”Wow! This is the answer to what’s been going on! Now I’ll get all those gains and abilities LRH wrote about that I just never seemed to get.”

    Well, the NED didn’t resolve anything and then IT got harder and harder to run. So, with my agreement, I was put back on the Purif. I did that, to good gains and then tried NED again. Still didn’t go well. I sort of gave up after that.

    Is what I am describing in some way related to what you are talking about? Maybe this is just my own personal story and has nothing to do with what you are exposing, but they seem VERY parallel. Anything you can tell me on this score?

    By the way, for anyone else who has experienced what I described, all through this ordeal I really felt like it was my own decision to do my Bridge all over again (and yes, when the NED didn’t go well I decided that maybe I should do my Grades FULLY since LRH says this is very important to getting through NED in the first place). I never once suspected that my decisions and actions were in any way other-determined (by an implant or anything or anyone else). Of course, none of it worked and as I had no more parts of the Bridge to re-do, I ran out of answers.

    Does this appear to be connected with the alterations in the tech to which you are referring?

    Hy Levy

  57. martyrathbun09

    Good point George. Something that most people who spent much time at Int will tell you is that Miscavige specializes is starting fights that vast church resources and personnel spend a great deal of time finishing.

  58. Watching Eyes

    Marty, what you’ve written is so, so true. The thing that really breaks my heart is that too many OT 8’s are no longer around to read it. They’re dead. And that’s all I’m going to say.

  59. martyrathbun09

    Right Lynne – and an important tool in the bag of an implanter.

  60. martyrathbun09

    I noticed her icon, your sig. Whatever, thanks for it.

  61. martyrathbun09

    Typically, a rudown is compiled by RTRC based on all LRH depatches, notes and tapes on a particular subject which include instructions on compiling. In the case of OT VIII Miscavige kept it very close to the chest – and I believe Ray was assigned to it sans any RTRC help; and Walker was involved because Ray and Walker needed to get one another through it. I believe the tape you refer to was 1983. There was very little comm to and fro between Int and LRH that year. From May 84 till January 86 there only very sporadic comm, further and further between the closer you get to 86. OT VIII was not compiled, nor even tested on anyone by the time LRH died. Note, LRH ALWAYS – and I mean always since 1950 – ran extensive pilots before issuing rundowns. There was plenty wiggle room – and virtually no oversight – for DM do as he damn well pleased with OT VIII. Incidentally, all of this occured – even the release of OT VIII – before Miscavige ever audited OT VII – which despite many efforts by RTC’s Qual staff – never did come to pass.

  62. martyrathbun09

    WE, I feel the same way, and you are right, nothing more need be said on that.

  63. martyrathbun09

    Yes. Your ride on OT VII is only too typical, the rule and not the exception. I have referred to the NOTS band serviing as the prior confusion to the implant of “OT VIII.” Hopefully some of the OT VIIIs of more recent vintage will share their Freewinds experience. It is your experience, plus unbelievable financial and ethics pressure added, and all condensed into a few weeks.

  64. It’s a revolt — not in the stars, but it’s a revolt!

  65. Knowingness goes down proportionally with overts and wittholds.
    Who is naive enough (except himself) to believe that he can compile and understand technical matters?
    dm is too stupiiiid to understand anything, because of his o/w´s and evil intentions.

  66. You and Karry need to move to TEXAS, NOW!!!!!!!! You don’t have to wait for Texas to secede from the Union, (USA).


  67. “We have experienced many tipping points over the past two years on our quest to salvage the subject of Scientology from the jaws of death. This point is different. This is the make-break point. The implant is known. Its remedy is simple. Beings can be and are being set free of this nefarious operation. They will continue to be forever. How do I know?”

    And too many of the highly trained are turning Miscavige’s “might makes right” into “might FOR right.”

  68. Hand up.

  69. Damn straight it’s a goddamned mutiny and I’m with LRH all the way.

  70. “So anyway, Scientology is well named. It is the road to truth. It is a study of the truth. And total truth is total power. And when the guy hasn’t got any lies left in him he’s OT. And all the mechanics of OT work out too. So, the subject is very, very well named.” from Class VIII

    Thank you Marty for sharing this. That is the reason people with out-integrity will never reach the true state of OT but only a diploma…

    Wonderful!! love to you and Mosey

  71. Thanks for this Tom.

    You’ve given a whole lotta context, even if the facts are missing. I have no doubt that you remember what Jeff said. What blows me away (and in a torch carrying way) is the fact that circumstances existed where a very senior tech terminal would even make such a comment. Aye, there’s a string to pull.

  72. Your win — Effective Cause Well Demonstrated. Congratulations!
    Bruce Pratt

  73. Wow, Lynne, that is a fantastic observation: the ‘DONT TALK ABOUT IT” IMPLANT/COMMAND! I had been subjected to this on lower levels, Flag OT V. The problem was, while in session on FPRD, (wrongly assigned when I was having fantastic wins on NOTS), I made originations about a SERVICE FAC I had stumbled upon during my sessions, supposed to be run on FPRD, I could not get an answer or even an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT from the C/S!!!!!!! So, if you can’t even talk about your case when you are on auditing lines and IN SESSION, where are you supposed to talk about your case???? If you can’t talk about it IN SESSION, and you can’t talk about it OUTSIDE of session, WHERE IN THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT IT!
    The situation resulted in NO AUDITING, dramatized in life as I NEVER WENT BACK FOR ANY MORE. Now after finding out what has happened to others, OT’s DYING, I guess I was extremely “lucky” to not be subjected to any more squirrel and out-tech. The out-tech at the time, probably saved my life! Thanks for the cog, Lynne

  74. Incredible story WH. Thank all that is good that you found a way out. I can tell from your amazing posts that you are in any case an OT in the real sense, with the power of love (theta, if you will). I second Marty’s idea that you find a few days to go to Casablanca, if only to chew the fat a little.

  75. The hamster wheel Bridge and your post brought this to mind:

    “Nothing ever happens
    nothing happens at all
    the needle returns to the start of the song
    and we all sing along like before”

    Which song also contains the line: “While American businessmen snap up Van Goghs for the price of a hospital wing”

  76. Marty, this is an achievement of some magnitude. It looks like you have determined a real WHY, that opens the door to a handling. Of course there was a WHO behind it, but DM could still have been toppled and the trap would have remained. So THANK YOU!

  77. Thanks Marty, that helps.
    The tape was RJ39 “My New Year’s Gift to You”, released on Dec 31, 1985.
    It sounds like the release of OT VIII was a DM quickie.

  78. WH, I am proud to know you. You come with such strength and love and understanding. Bless you.

  79. Thank you Marty. Very kind of you. It would be great to spend a few days at Casablanca, visiting with the two of you … and the 4 legged ones!


  80. Thanks Marty,

    This is very revealing. I think the entire Scientology community has been concerned with the behavior of some OT’s who upon completing OT VIII acted and behaved in a most low tone fashion. I remember seeing one in particular and thinking “I don’t want to become like that”.

    As an additional note, in May 2006 I assisted the FSO Pgms Chief FB on an eval she did on the FSO regarding OT V completions arriving to FSO and needing to do 5-9 intensives of NOTS (and more ins come cases) before they were allowed to Solo audit on OT VII. The eval found OUT TECH C/Sing by the NOTS C/S’s. The RTC Rep ILO blocked the eval from being implemented. The FSO Pgms Chf FB became quite ill, had to have an operation and was not able to continue on her post.

  81. OH MY GOD, Hy, thank you for telling us this. I have had similar situations where I did things on my own determinism; at least it seemed that way at the time, in Scientology, that I later learned were out-Tech or out-Ethics. After being on this blog, I realized I was DRAMATIZING DM’s frickin’ case for years, on my”own determinism”. Right now I am realizing we were copying DM, as we thought he was “setting a good example” only to find out he was really a CRIMINAL in every area: the outlandish donations to the IAS, the extreme perversion of the Tech, the criminality of Super-Power regging, the Ideal Org perversion of the Quarters/Viability Tech. I would decide to do things, on my own, that I now consider to be huge overts. At the time I justified them by “well, it’s the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.”
    In my own life, I started raping my business for donations to Scientology, crashing my own future production, doing a mini version of Rex Fowler (There but for the grace of God, go I). Most of what I did, I was not regged for, but did it on my “own determinism”. But, now it is obvious it was a case of “monkey see, monkey do”. I was following the lead of DER LEADER, and falsely attributing it to what I THOUGHT was my own independent viewpoint. The truly astonishing part, is how subtle the influence of out-ethics and out-tech can be, how insidious and perverse a thetan can trick himself into believing he did it “on his own” and “for the greatest good”, all the while operating on that well known BLIND SPOT LRH talks about in the Ethics Tech.
    Hy, I really appreciate this story you have told, as it explains so much of how fantastic thetans like yourself get duped into thinking you have to redo your whole bridge. It shows the lengths the out-tech will go in convincing a thetan who has made it, into thinking he hasn’t and therefore has to start at the beginning again. I myself have had this same thought, “maybe I should just start over”, but now know all of that is HOGWASH. The subtle influence of THE BASICS, let’s” start at the beginning” with all theory and no practical, has to be setting the stage for the same thing to occur on Tech lines with OT’s going into agreement that they need to start over.
    DM is dramatizing his own case on Tech lines. HE IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO START OVER AT THE BEGINNING, per LRH’s tech on A to E with a true SP. “C. Requires training beginning at the lowest level of the Bridge at their expense if executives in charge of training will have the person or the group members;”. He is running the remedy of his own case (true Suppressive Person) on every member of the Church of Miscavology!
    Just my 2 cents.
    P.S. Hy, can’t wait to see y’all at the Indie weekend. Hope you are still practicin’ your Operatin’ Texan talk! Oh, I don’t know if you know, you probably saved my life by giving me the only true indication I had at Flag, as NOTS HGC D of P, that I should never have been put on the FPRD after doing so well on NOTS. For this I will never stop tellin’ all the OT’s in Texas how great you are! Go back to the beginnin’ of the Bridge?
    BAH HUMBUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  82. Lynne — while I noticed that many seemed to be having a hard time on OT VII and OT VIII, I didn’t really have an ahhhh moment that our hard times were caused.

    Not until reading someone’s accounting online that OT VIII was truncated and changed several times. The light bulb then went off. WOW —

    I did notice that the longer a person stayed on OT VII, the more solid they became —- in most cases.


  83. Marty and Mosey, thank you for creating a safe space from which to communicate. The truth shall set us all free!

  84. Very interesting.

  85. Word UP!
    “Mutiny… and ya can’t do a damn thing about it… BI….ATCH!!”

  86. P.S. I had many true indications in my early years of auditing at Flag, especially the State of Clear OT. I meant in the later years of DM’s out-tech, when LRH was gone, and DMology took over. Just to carify.

  87. Friend of Ron

    Mr Fancy, two quick comments to your note: “What I don’t get is why, after so many years and so many “OT”s, why doesn’t some loyal Sea Org guy demonstrate the powers they are supposed to have gained?”

    Like Laura pointed out the day before the we did not leave the Church but the Church left us.

    And so it goes for the S.O. The ex-SO who post here constructively did not leave the Sea Org. The Sea Org left them. So what you are hoping to see as OT feats inside you now see demonstrated outside Scn Inc.

    The ability to impact on Scn Inc with the magnitude that Marty, Mike and others posting here are having is OT. The swiftness of change created planet wise as a result is OT. OTs at work; the results show it.

    Many have tried in the past, from the 80s onwards, and they all have failed.

    Now this juggernaut is growing and the creators of it and contributors to it are real OTs. As it takes a lot more OT ability and energy and focus to move these kind of mountains than it does to move a piece of MEST in front of you.

    Real OT’s at Work Here.
    Better Days Ahead.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Have a nice day.

  88. Friend of Ron


    Thanks for sharing this. I am in shock! Nothing like the naked, brutal, truthful testimony of an eye witness.


  89. P.S. This got posted later, was intended to be here in this spot. Hy, I had many true indications in my earlier years at Flag, before LRH left and DMology took over with out-tech. The most fantastic win I ever had was the State of Clear OT, which had occurred earlier in auditing of OT levels at AOLA. It was a bypassed win from 1974, that got rehabbed at Flag in 1977.
    When the tech at Flag was being done correctly, it was superlative and astounding! But when it started being perverted, you were one of the last bastions of the correct tech being kept in. Thanks for “holding out” as long as you could.

  90. SP Dave had to figure out something to shove the thetan’s anchor points in right after OT VIII so the thetan wouldn’t think about his next step, right? After all it doesn’t exist, but if the public new that they’d be going after him with guns and knives. He is basically a coward and everything he does is to slow, enturbulate and stop. Marty, by you zeroing in on this one thing exposes so many other things. You are a Godsend!

  91. Interesting Lucy.

    Of course, you know why that incompetent, untrained, inexperienced, self-important RTC Rep (Tracey) wouldnt allow the eval to be implemented? The RTC Stat is Advanced Tech VSD. The vast majority of that is delivered at the FSO — no way would she be responsible for anything that would potentially cut the Ad Tech VSD from all those intensives (or heaven forbid, all the 6 month check intensives).

    RTC collects a percentage of Ad Tech VSD which keeps DM supplied with hand made suits, shirts, shoes and jewelry, plenty of special food, staff, cars etc etc. This partly explains why nobody is ever going to do anything to change these insanities. Nobody wants to be the one that “crashes” Dear Leader’s stats — way better (and safer) to stand by and watch them slowly decay as less and less victims can be persuaded to come in to be sucked dry. That can always be blamed on something else (lower orgs not producing, the media, all of the SPs in the field, the psychs, BigPharma etc etc etc).

  92. Scotty — interesting implications there, made more so by Marty’s statements below.

    The tape in question is “Ron’s Journal 39 My New years Gift To You.” The published/released date associated with it is 1985. The recording could have been actually done earlier. I understand that most folks doing verification of authenticity say this is an authentic recording. However, given the time and circumstances, well, not applicable to the actual scene.

    If the dastardly man wanted to introduce a confusion at the top of the bridge, I give him a very well done.

    Bruce Pratt

  93. Great summation Karen. I’ve been on real Boards, and you are exactly right. DM is absoluately CLUELESS when it comes to calling himself “Chairman” of the Board — a complete joke. He has NO idea what he is doing — and frankly, from all indications, he’s committing fraud and breaking various state and federal laws.

  94. Keep rocking the boat, Marty.
    Truth will flow on out there, and it may take time… but it will seep into the mush of those that need to know this truth the most.

  95. There’s an interesting discussion happening on Jeff Hawkins blog ( about the benefits of OT. It would be interesting to see your take on this as it relates to your post.

  96. Hy,
    I’ll piggy back on your question to Marty here.
    I have been observing By Passed Charge in those who have done NOTs (not only those on NOTs, but that is the subject here). BPC is charge “restimulated in some way in an individual, and that is either partially or wholly unknown to that individual and so is capable of affecting him adversely” (Tech Dict).

    This BPC manifests in upset, apathy, antagonism, covert hostility, anger, grief and all the mis-emotion of the scale. It doesn’t ‘turn off’ because the actual source of it isn’t spotted.

    What Marty has found is that ‘auditing’, especially on NOTs (and considering what this level addresses it becomes even more distastrous to by-pass charge – that is mis-identify the source – and have the being in a state of either partial or wholly unknowing on the charge) is intentionally, by reason of out-tech, by-passing charge!

    It is creating case as ‘case’ is defined as ‘the whole sum of by-passed charge’ (Tech Dict).

    I did not experience any of this as I did the OT Levels up through III and onto NOTs, outside of this stuff. My experience is relief, a lessening of ‘case’ as the correct charge is located and blown. I’m not upset, I’m happier, lighter, more reach, more perception and operating more and more at the postulate level, way above this heavy effort being described.

    What I’m observing Hy is that there is extreme, gross, and utterly reversed out-tech being practiced on those on NOTs to By Pass Charge, that is create case. This is an intentional confusing of beings and an effort to RE stimulate, to disorient, and to give the Prior Confusion (all that BPC adding to the confusion) that is there for the ‘set up’ and the introduction of an ‘implant’ such as has been found on this suppressive ‘OT VIII’.

    Karen #1 has posted above that there are only ‘Black on White’ issues for the NOTs training/indoc for those embarking on this level. It appears that this may very well be ‘mushroom’ training – keeping them in the dark and feeding them bullshit.

    I did the full NOTs pack as my training. The LRH materials, the full dress parade and R factor. So, I KNOW what the level is and what it addresses.

    It’s become clearer to me today, with what Marty has found consistently, how come those doing this level in DM’s nuthouse, are experiencing things just as you have described you have.

    I get what the hell is going on with the manifest BPC that I’m witnessing. Jesus Christ NO WONDER!!!

  97. Whew… are ROCKIN that TA! LOL……

    In one of the many conversations I had with Marty at Casablanca, we discussed Act One from Advanced Procedures and Axioms, and how that, as well as the decency called for in the Auditor’s Code “created the space” in which auditing could occur. As a reminder, Act One says in part:

    “The auditor necessarily owns the pre-clear. He owns the pre-clear on a lessening basis until the pre-clear owns himself. If the auditor wishes to successfully own, to the end of NOT owning the pre-clear, he must not use the pre-clear to the service of the auditor for this establishes and confirms the ownership and inhibits the pre-clear from owning himself.”

    Marty pulled out his copy of the “Basics” version of AP&A, and asked me to show him where that was. It had been removed!

    This is sabotage, with malice aforethought, plain and simple. Do a service at the “Church of Mestlology” at your own risk, because not only is not NOT LRH, it isn’t even “Auditing”. Doing a “NOT’s Indoc” without the HCOB’s?!?!?!?!?!?!? This is the first I have heard of that, but if it is true, then welcome to Lubyanka…..Dave’s Org.

  98. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Now that was an OT SNAP! Love your pointy anchors Scott.

    It’s better to “jump ship” than to go down in it’s whirlpool of entheta.

    Gary 🙂

  99. Friend of Ron

    Thanks Mike. As I commented earlier to “Windhorse” post on his OT 8 experience — nothing like an eye witness account.

    Coming from the legal background it always fascinates me how attorneys can present tons of docs, character witnesses, experts galore and then just one eye witness account, delivered with the full impact of the WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, turns an entire jury. Just one person and his or her truthful account.

    We got truth on our side.

  100. This is pretty scary stuff. If WH was one of the earliest VIIIs and hers was botched that badly, my question is: has OT VIII ever been “done right”?

    When LRH was around, it was about as obvious as skyrockets that everything new – a level, a grade, a training course – went through a debug or refinement cycle.

    There were always those who could not wait to jump in as quickly as possible and do the new RD or level right away.

    Others knew the drill and patiently waited a few months or years for the inevitable bugs to get worked out first. Speaking just for myself, I always considered the “early adopters” to be the equivalent of guinea pigs to some extent.

    BUT – we had confidence based on experience that the debugging would lead to a refined product that gave the gains and EPs promised – either that, or whatever it was would be scrapped (anyone remember “blinkless TR0?).

    The reason for our confidence: LRH was there to oversee the debugging, refine the “product”.

    But with OT VIII – for the first time in Scientology history, LRH was not here to do the “debug and refine” part!

    OT VIII has been in DM’s hands from Day One, and look at the results.

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Marty. It’s vital information.

  101. Dear Marty,

    Thanks for another incredible update on the current scene. This helps explain my observations about too many of the solidified broken pieces masquerading as OTs. Fortunately the survivors of dm’s black tech reach critical implant fatigue and escape. More are coming.

    David Miscavige, that rouge usurping runt, is an emissary from hell. What’s left of the organization LRH gave us has turned into a Death Star careening into a spiritual box canyon piloted by a wholetrack sociopath.

    Again, thanks for all you do and the help and insight you provide.

    ML, Tom

  102. Tony DePhillips

    The mind- molester. Wow, that indicates.
    Sssshhhhh, don’t tell anyone that you are caved in, you are not supposed to talk about your case… Now, you need to buy two more intensives for $15,000. for more sec checking.. Stop crying, wht kind of an example is that for an OTVIII?? No, you cannot talk to your husband about this he is only OTIV. This is VERY confidential…Oh, someone from the IAS wants to talk to you..

  103. martyrathbun09

    And I’ll piggy back on you Jim. Yes, thorough indoc on NOTs is vital and yet prohibited in the Choich (New York for Church). And when it comes to OT VIB – read the ENTIRE NOTS series!

  104. martyrathbun09

    Unfortunately, he never did go “OT” as he states before launching on “no OT possible” essay. As to why people don’t go around “demonstrating” such abilities; well, a thetan cannot perceive that which he cannot conceive. I am very sorry he invested 35 years with no pay for living. Heartbreaking.

  105. Or he is deeply implanted with that SP’s valence and is dramatizing it, but I think he has to be originally an SP to get into such a state.

  106. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for remembering Tinkerbelle. She won’t pose for a photo, so most forget her.

  107. What Marty and others have shared is the OT VIII that I did and the others who did OT VIII early on — were only given 1/2 of the process. (those who did OT VIII later, I have no idea what they were given)

    1/2? Friggin 1/2? WHERE was and is the OTHER half?

    Beats me.

    I fared really badly because it completely skewered some CORE CORE beliefs I held. Not everyone skewered those beliefs. I know because instead of NOT talking about it — I did talk to my ex about it ONCE he was on the level.

    He didn’t have his beliefs skewered but he was furious that all the hoop-la was being made over what he intuitively knew was just 1/2 of the story or less.

    OTHER early OT VIIIs developed cancer after doing OT VIII and several of my friends died. Only a few years afterwards.

    I don’t have the early list of completions but I’m betting it would send shivers down your spine to see the number of causalities … either by death, insanity, suicide or just far far away from the bridge.


  108. HOLD ON!!!

    Are you saying that the long indoc a pc does with his/her auditor PRIOR to running NOTS is no longer being done?

    This would make the entire process of NOTSabsolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

    Is this really the case?

    It’s worse – way worse than I imagined.


  109. Marty,

    Of course, this is what is going on. No wonder there is BPC and the manifestation of generalized ARCXs, mis-emotion as apathy, grief, anger, hostility and ‘ hey, FUCK YOU’ !! THAT’S what BPC does!!! It is not known, or only partially known and swamps the being and bursts forth or engulfs them and all the other manifestations of by-passed charge – charge restimmed and not handled.

    It is equally apparent that DM INTENDS this to occur. He IS suppressive and that personality specializes in restim. He’s managed to get ‘auditors’ to act completely contrary to the aim of auditing. Especially at the level of NOTs, where it can wreak such havoc.

    I could go on and on as the realizations pour forth. YES, THIS makes sense Marty.

  110. Hi George–I like what you say. I have only one disagreement. You say you are not OT. I would like you to change that to “don’t have a piece of paper giving me a license to act like an OT.” LOL We really give ourselves the license to act like an OT and we don’t need the label. You are very OT in your view and in mine! Your realizations are spot on.

  111. He’s not saying that no OT is possible. He’s saying he didn’t get the results he felt he was supposed to and is asking others in the community to share their experiences, which they have been doing.

    I think the discussion is quite relevant to your post as it touches on what it means to be OT. If Miscavige tech is preventing people from achieving something it might be helpful to have a better understanding of what they should be achieving.

  112. Thanks WH. I have noticed that too.

  113. Tony DePhillips

    Hey Hy,
    As you know I was on the Level a few times. One of the times, I got the R-factor that I wasn’t Clear and then did 5 intensives of sec checks then 3 intenives of NED all in that “refresher”. Well, it wasn’t very refreshing. I think it was about then that I started to entertain the idea that all was not well within the church. It was like huh?? They only now figured out I am not Clear?? Doesn’t anyone know what they are doing? I then started to get the idea (cog)that the only reason for auditing was for case gain. I stopped caring about the status. And started to question the need for all the sec checks. But the whole thing was getting more and more solid and serious along with all the finances. Having had a decent amount of ethics training I realized that this was at least a Danger condition and finally took myself off the level because I didn’t want to spend more cash and keep going more and more solid. Also there were questions that Flag never answered for me. The eternal f/n mystery for example, why was all the sec checking needed for the most highly processed on the planet? All part of the prior confusion.
    That confusion blew for me the day I read and watched the Truth Rundown from the St. Petersburgh Times.

  114. That’s a good analogy, Gary. And taking it further, you can’t just swim around in the water trying to decide if you’re going to climb back on the ship or not, because the SUCK will take you down. You have to strike out for a safe shore and keep swimming! LOL

  115. The mind of a shark, he can smell blood in the water this cold, cold creature and atacks without mercy.

    “The greatest crimes do not arise from a want of feeling for others but from an over-sensibility for ourselves and an over-indulgence to our own desires”

    -Edmund Burke

  116. Expelled 4 Life

    You mean like Barry K. going from full time pro FSM to opening a wine store?

    Note: Isn’t it interesting that several years back instant, paid in full FSM commissions were cancelled for Org services. FSMs still got paid but only as the public person did each individual service. Nothing wrong with that in theory BUT commissions for IAS, Super Power and later Ideal Orgs remained instant and paid in full.

    For this reason many of the big producing, full time upper org FSMs moved over to primarily regging for IAS, SuperPower and Ideal Org buildings as their primary income source.

    And those who newly wanted to become full time FSMs pretty much by necessity had to reg for IAS, Super Power or Ideal Orgs as it could be years before you got paid for service FSM commissions.

  117. Dearest Songbird, You sound just like someone close to me. It is really hard to love someone and see them encase themselves in this “I won’t let anyone approach me with this subject!” Please accept my love of you for what you are and what you want whether or not you come to see the difference between what the church did and what real Scientology tech is.

  118. Wow, thanks for your input too. And you made me see that the “don’t talk about it” is groomed in from much further down the bridge, so that it can be brought to bear in full force as you go higher. WOW!

  119. Ditto, kiddo. In fact when invited insistently while waiting in the HGC after a major review I turned to the terminal hassling me and stated, “What part of F*** Off and Die don’t you understand?”

    Knowingness is a wonderful thang …

  120. This, Renata and Claudio, is the point. There is nothing after VIII and, like the Ponzi schemer that he is, he’s stalling those on VII and VIII so they won’t discover his lies.

  121. This brings up a point of further confusion that is being laid in, for those of us who read the original books and know what they said. Besides the inval of the announcement that we “didn’t really get any of it”, the new basics and their alterations left us with unresolved attention on “what were the differences?” “Didn’t it say something else before but I kind of don’t remember?” Etc. So this point of finding an important datum that had been removed is excellent, because it is a correct indication: “yes, there was something else, you have been hornswoggled.” LOL

  122. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Joe.
    Yes he has disgraced us. I liked the Bruce was so light and the “dm” character was so ham handed. It is much like the battle we are fighting now in our revolution for Independence.

  123. Tony DePhillips

    Yes Sidewinder Bruce Lee was a very OT guy. Very uptone and light but deadly if messed with.

  124. Gonna try a smidge of levity here regarding this godhelpus scene (not to detract from the efforts of those helping to correct it):

    outside the CoM — NOTs
    inside the CoM — NUTs

    Now we need a little Karate Kid — NOTs on, NUTs off.



  125. And I’ll piggy on both of you. What you’re describing is the most pernicious of Implants: “Auditing frees you (Auditing enslaves you)”. So the more you audit to become free, the less free you actually become.

  126. Tony DePhillips

    The implant is beggining to take hold here.

  127. So, based on everything I’ve read so far on this blog, only Ray & Jeff ever saw the complete OT VIII materials? Sounds right. I knew Jeff well and he would have blown his top at ANYONE who tried to squirrel at that level. I talked to him shortly before he “left” Int. He wasn’t happy AT ALL. (One would have to know Jeff to determine this as he often had a scowl)

  128. martyrathbun09

    Don’t understand your comment. I am tracking with him utterly.

  129. mark mckinstry

    As an aside, I recruited a woman from Argentina some years back for the SO. Her name is Viviana.

    We did great work together setting up publishers in South America to publish LRH works.. used to go to the Frankfurt book fair together.

    She then got promoted to be part of the “new breed” of marketers being trained at Flag. The idea was that the current PDU staff needed replacement/reinforcement, proper orders of magnitude.. all that.

    Have never heard since of any product from this unit.. or seen any raw public campaign of any note.

    In any case, she called me about two months ago. She is now on a “project” to recover OT VIII’s.

    Outpointy in a couple respects…

    Why would you need a “project” to recover people at the top of the bridge? This outpoint leads to the Situation Marty describes.

    The other.. here is a person with years of dissem and marketing experience, part of the chosen 50 to lead the new Marketing Corps now calling OT VIII’s?

    Guess it is easier to just recycle existing Scientologists. Which is what 99.99% or current marketing is anyway.

  130. martyrathbun09

    Sorry, didn’t have time but to skim it at first. You are right, a very interesting discussion opened up.

  131. martyrathbun09

    It is worse than that WH. It omits a number of important phenomena that are expected to occur in the NOTS band that Miscavige has specifically instructed C/Ses and sups to convince pre-OTs cannot possibly occur. It is darker than you can imagine.

  132. martyrathbun09

    Good observation Mark. Miscavige burned Proportianate Marketing many years ago.

  133. Will Smith is absolutely right here.

    That said, the knowledge that he and TC are very close and that Will Smith has very probably met DM (with TC gushing/propitiating/praising, all along the way), and that he even funded a Scn school (?) makes one wonder if a little TC is rubbing off on him.

    Is that what you’re saying Tony? If so, I get it. I see a little TC “intensity” there in that interview. Or…it’s just plain old enthusiasm about what a great life he’s living.

  134. Tony DePhillips

    My feeling is that he is all caught up in the good of Scientoloogy philosophy part which is cool. (which means he can still get some in the cult) But he is unknowing about what is going on in the church in its deeper and darker corners ,and this first part sort of sets the hook. This is part of the trap that I see has become corporate Scn. You do get some good at first and then they gradiently trap you. Otherwise how or why would people put up with the stuff they get as being part of that group? IMO it is a vital part of the trap. I also felt that he was sort of rambling a bit over the top, had sort of a tc aspect to him. A bit out R with the interviewer who looked like he was not getting it. I feel if you are so keyed out that you go out R with the person you are communicating with, that it isn’t a good sign.

  135. Awesome post, this kicks off the new century with a mighty bang.

    Something also occurred to me about the introduction of NOTs as OT V. The only guys I ever met who had OT abilities that you could actually see were those who had done the “old” OT levels. NOTs tech was supposed to be for those who couldn’t run further Dianetics, as a specialist rundown before going on to the actual OT levels above OT III.

    So essentially these OT levels have been dropped out completely. Now if you have a look at the EP of old OT IV and up from the 1970 version of the grade chart you’ll see some interesting claims there. Very worthwhile stuff to aim for, in fact.

    My observation of OTs, as a newly attested Clear way back in the 70s, gave me the impression that after OT III the person had survived something big, that after NOTs they had calmed down and gained more affinity with the world, but that after Solo NOTs they had somehow become more compliant, unquestioning and agreable. In other words, I didn’t really like the way it was heading at all.

    This may explain why I stopped after OT III in the Freezone to take a look around before continuing on. And whatever NOTs case has come up I’ve managed to handle quite successfully with a couple of simple procedures of my own design, to the point where BTs are of no consequence at all. I also admit here that I tried to run WBR’s Excalibur under supervision and found that it didn’t bite very well, at least for me.

    Simply stated, and to conclude here, there seems to have been a branch diversion in the tech at OT III which is unresolved, and which even Marty hasn’t yet mentioned. He’s a smart thetan so I won’t assume he’s unaware of it.

    Looking forward to future bombshells!

  136. Marty,

    Yes — I can believe it’s worse than I ever could have imagined.

    A few days before attesting, I noticed that I was “wired” … though I would go to sleep at night … I was wide awake. My body WAS sleeping and I was wide awake.

    While some might say — cool — exterior — I can tell you it wasn’t cool. It was a severe separation between my physical body and me. As a thetan, we must have some grounding in our lives – otherwise we could wander around like that local bag lady, talking to spirits in the sky.

    Later back home — my mind actually FROZE. It was the most outrageous experience of my life. It was frozen.

    Then it cracked — like anything frozen would.

    I believe that each of us on OT VIII, manifest the out-tech of it in our own unique ways. We are each individuals so how we would process the utterly unprocessable would be unique.

    Some would lose their minds. Others would internalize it physically and get terminally ill. Others would lose their businesses, others would desert their families.

    So — seeing what happened to OT VIIIs wouldn’t be that easy UNTIL many many years later dozens (perhaps more) arrived at Casablanca and you could glean from their reports what happened.

    This is truly HUGE and explains so much.

    Thank you for continuing to expose what dm has done and is doing.


  137. Tony DePhillips

    Also it bugs me that when celebrities don’t find out about the abuses and do anything about them. I heard Will Smith has gotten JZ into Scientology. I feel that this supports dm ultimately, and I feel any celeb that is just “keyed out” about this wins and not applying them to their own church is a BOT, and to that degree in the early stages of implantation.

  138. Marty was right the first time, SF. If you can’t imagine it, you can’t create it. Here’s what OT means to me: recognizing the boundless potential of YOU.

    It’s not Scientology that’s OT, it’s YOU!

    So, by extension, you’re not really gaining any abilities as much as remembering the ones you have.

    Pretty wild stuff.

  139. I agree Marty. He’s quite understandable. And The Alchemist is a WONDERFUL book.

    Anyone who’s 10 year old can whip her hair like that – has got to be a good guy:)


  140. This morning I saw a report about a Vermont neighborhood being terrorized by “a renegade grey squirrel”. Can anybody confirm if this is DM?

  141. This points to one of the biggest traps in all of this: our own innate basic goodness.

    Jeff Walker is a classic example of someone who had his own foibles regardless of his position. Although married for a long time to Sue Walker – she left her husband, lavish life style and 5 small children to join the Sea Org and be with Jeff — back in the early 70’s — Jeff subsequently had several affairs.

    So — when he did leave — many could say — oh, well, he’s got a bushel of overts of course.

    And so the wheel continues to turn. Each of us saying — oh well, he’s got overts.

    Until there isn’t anyone left in the building.

    In TRUTH — people LEAVE because the situation INSIDE the building has become antipathetic to LIFE. And those who haven’t become a wooden block cannot stay.

    They cannot breathe anymore.

    And it takes a goodly long time on the outside to start to breathe again.

    This blog is a meeting place where we can start breathing. And because it is now made up of MANY who left years ago, some who left a year ago and more who just left — all different perspectives are shared.

    And the common denominator is —

    We are alive and recognizing each other.

    Pretty great, I’d say — again this is a tribute to the work of Marty, Mosey (Chiquita and Tinkerbell), Mike, Christie and their white shepherd and many many others.


  142. You very much remind me of Morpheus in Matrix, Marty. So … we’ve taken the red pill and we’re staying in Wonderland and you’re going to show us how deep the rabbit-hole goes …

    I knew something was awry after III. Not that it wasn’t great, because it was very great, but I came to see the upper Bridge as one incomplete cycle of action followed by another.

    I’ve deliberately avoided going to FLAG (perhaps I know more than I let myself believe?) for years because I didn’t want to chase my thetan tail and at an exorbitant cost, both financial and emotional.

  143. Geeze, what a mess. I know from first hand experience the twisted and sordid cycle enforced when NOTS enters the Flag stage. Still trying to come to terms with the betrayal.
    What really bites when I look at the subject now is the cummulative downwards spiral so well accepted on lines. I ran a CL4 Acad. for years in the 80s and always had as a priority that once in the Academy the student is safe. Two of the safest places in this universe must be in the Acadmey and the other is the auditing rooom. I have thrown out all sorts of Exec interference, Qual, Ethics terminals etc. Outside the Acad doors it is open season but no one fools with the students space on my watch. What I never expected were the squirrel checksheets and packs.
    To me the biggest personal stab in the back came in the form of betrayal from the CS. The one terminal in all of existance that is completely relyed upon to be honest with you – when that line enters treason as it has, the bitter taste is very hard to remove. How in the world could a CS let external influence enter the scene?
    Such is the set up devised by one so incredibly evil.
    To those who read this blog with intentions other than accepting that ‘auditing is for the PC’ please, please realise what you are doing and where you are taking yourself & others.
    What is so terribly wrong with being honest?

  144. Windhorse.
    I consider you an exemplary thetan.
    What have you been through is something.
    How you have come out such a winner is admirable.

    Marty will confirm that the “VERSIONS” of OT 8 have keep changing through the years til the 80s *EDITION*, 90s Edition and 2005 *EDITION* and 2010 *EDITION* are pretty UNRECOGNIZABLE.

    LRH did not write various “VERSIONS” of OT 8.

    I have much info on this


  145. The tone level of the church of dmonology is below 2.0

    when I was gung ho the church worked hard to stop me at every level. I guess they couldn’t handle my speed.
    when I started to withdraw, the church started to almost beg me to continue, phone ringing off the hook, courting me in every way possible until I actually showed up and then they would apply the stop tech. R3RA on an OT is but one example.
    I also realized I haven’t really been smiling much for over past two decades. That’s a pretty big outpoint.

    I used to think we were saving the world – humanity – 4th and 7th dynamics.

    Now we have been reduced to trying to just “Save Scientology” from a mad man. A 3rd dynamic operation.

    Some of us are working hard to just save ourselves. 1st dyanmic.

    Wow… what a shrinking game.

    As a gung ho seeker of the truth, I embraced SCN and sought knowing it all. The more intention I put there the more resistance I encountered. Having spent a lot of time with the Ethics tech and the subject of responsibility I assumed all stops were within me even though, now I know, they were clearly being manifested by DM’s church: stopped at ASHO on my BC, stopped at Hubbard College on my Wise program, stopped at Flag getting onto VII. I redoubled my efforts. Put more money in, more effort, more intention. My estimation was always shy of what seemed to be needed.

    Many years ago, I was in a 2D for about 2 years with an OT8 who completed in 1988, I believe, who was almost certifiably nuts. She could go from sane to insane faster than a New York minute. I never got accustomed to her dramatizations and overt lying that just puzzled me. As a health professional, her physical problems were completely unique. Strange body contortions with bizarre manifestations that would not respond to treatment. Now, she has cancer. She’s blown and deadfiled.

    Since, I have experienced several “new OT 8s” and though a few are doing ok to very well, most are quite broke. One gal, who tried to run more APs on me to Flag as she was trying to become an FSM for my wife and I, lied to save herself from a threat that she feared that we might write up her misapplication of the tech where she hadn’t used basic ARC and TRs etc. We were’nt thinking that, just didn’t want to play any game with her so we just dropped it. Well, her solution, perhaps due to DM fear and in the vulture culture, was to write me up to “save herself” by issuing more bald faced lies. I would have done nothing more if she had not written this. But it sure became the catalytic turning point for my wife and I, when we started to question what was happening (was this an OT 8 product? We thought) and led us to see behind the curtain where stood the naked emperor. Thanks to Marty’s blog and others, I discovered that many others have observed similar things as I have over the years. It was like a De PTSing exercise to read what others had experienced.

    Refreshing, now that I have fully withdrawn from “scn inc.”, my phone has stopped ringing. What a shock. I used to have friends who called years ago until I became wrapped up in the church. Now, 23 years later, only an occasional personal call. But the phone rang incessantly with staff members wanting only one thing. More of my hard earned money. Years of generosity made me a target and easy mark. I cared and wanted to make the world right. Thought DM SCN was genuine for far too long. Now that my funds were exhausted and my interest too, I have had some very hard earned cogs. Ouch. Many of my friends are gone, my kids have cut the line, and I am wondering how was I so easily duped and betrayed. Or in other words, how awful was my goodness. Hopefully, naive no longer, but finding a beacon has been a rediscovery of who I have been all along: one very tough thetan. I am back, a little more each day. JB

  146. Bruce,
    Keep your “NUTs” to yourself, m’kay? 😀 LOL

  147. LOL
    Damn that amnesia crap! I can think it! I can wish it! Mock up, mock up, mock up… what do you mean I have a bank to clear up first? Damn it!!! LOL 😉

  148. He’s expounding on Cause. Almost a Rising Scale demonstrated. Makes sense to me.

    What’s he’s not doing is telling Tavis he’s ‘glib’ or any other inval or eval.

  149. WH — You can iinclude my father on that list. Died in a car accident shortly after completing OT VIII (my mother, also OT VIII was driving and was badly injured).

  150. Tony Dephillips

    I wrote the responses to Marty before I read yours. I did see that TC mania a bit in that interview.

  151. “…people LEAVE because the situation INSIDE the building has become antipathetic to LIFE. ”

    Certainly that is one reason. There are others, and the theory that a basically good being, unable to restrain himself, or having committed harmful acts, who withholds himself and withdraws from a scene to protect others from those harmful acts, is another valid scenario.

    Pressure to not be trapped ‘in’, that is charge on Interiorization/Exteriorization is another valid reason.

    The fallacy is there is a single reason, applicable in every case, robotically jammed down every throat that isn’t truth. The truth, spotted, resolves whatever it is that needs resolution. Lies perpetuate it.

  152. Marty in your opinion, would DM not go into session because he was afraid his witholds would be found out about or was he simple a bypassed case – another sign of an SP. Make no sense that the “leader” of the Church of Scientology is not at the top of the bridge and worse yet, refusing auditing. Thanks.

  153. Amazing post. I am just finishing OT V and excited to start on Solo. I am so thankful I got out of the “church” early. My Clear cycle at Flag was one of the worst experiences of my life. I felt so unsupported by my auditor down to tech services. I can only imagine what those OT 7’s go through. My auditing in the independent field has gone so smooth and I have had tremendous wins and experienced great changes in my life. Thx for the post Marty- look forward to meeting you this summer.

    Have a nice day everyone

  154. This is nasty.

    My mother finished OT VII just a few years ago, and did everything in her power to make sure that she did not go to the Ship to do OT VIII. She said it was very hard to avoid it and that almost every person who finished OT VII was gotten right to the Ship and people weren’t even allowed to leave Flag without going straight to the Ship upon completion of VII. Somehow she managed to get out of it by fighting and claiming that she absolutely did NOT have enough finances, etc. She said it was very hard to do (and only a few others ever made it out of there without going to the Ship) but she did it and as far as I know she has still not gone to do the new OT VIII.

    Just the fact that somebody who has just completed a level in Scientology and DOES NOT WANT to go on and will do everything in their power to avoid their next action proves how much this Bridge has been destroyed by Miscavige.

  155. I think Marty does have a Morpheus quality as well. Kind of a bad ass with a big heart. Where is the Oracle Marty? 🙂

  156. Tony,
    How long does it take to get the reality that you now have? How long did it take you?

    He’s having wins. That’s GOOD, right? To smack him down because he hasn’t attained the R you have, well…you get the idea.

  157. Mrs. Friend of Ron

    Thanks for the reminder Scott. Holy bat whistles, Robin! The biggest shock is how the truth Marty has just revealed is without a doubt what many of us already perceived, even those of us who are not yet Clear or OT. It was just too gruesome to believe, for me anyway. You know what I mean? When someone else articulates your own perception for you, that’s when you recognize it has to be true. That’s how I tend to cognite when studying Source. But the truth is always very clearly the truth, eh?

    As you said, Auditors are the way out. I’m finding out that all that’s needed to audit and receive auditing IS out here, including all the support Ron said he would demand if he were auditing in an org. –which ISN’T in the orgs in my humble experience.

    Anyone else out there who is trained, and anyone willing to get trained, let’s get some auditing done!

    An Auditor

  158. Mrs. Friend of Ron

    Yeah, I just got quite a few pictures of suffering OT’s faces.

    What a relief that relief is possible for them.

  159. martyrathbun09

    Well put Huck.

  160. martyrathbun09

    Good point.

  161. Tony Dephillips

    Yes there are differences and similarities. Just making a point, not a smackdown. I stand by my comments.

  162. martyrathbun09

    Comment; there is nothing wrong with NOTs band except the alterations and additives that makes it reverse scientology. And there is plenty, plenty LRH to keep people moving on up far higher than DM’s grade chart shows.

  163. marc mckinstry,
    Was that Viviana Churin or Churrin?

  164. Mrs. Friend of Ron

    Count me in! –or OUT!

  165. I remember a time back in 1995, many auditors on solo nots wanted to attest to having completed the level. We were told could not do…something new was about to be released to handle the upset and sad effect of those auditing the level…that being a big generality. I remember thinking to myself, you have got to be kidding here we go the “master” is now going to tell us when we are finished. I am so thankful I moved on because as it was I had my own BPC.

  166. martyrathbun09

    In the Bronx, baby.

  167. Yes, and this “Don’t talk about it” is pervasive all the way from the top (OT levels) right down to the bottom in the Ideal Orgs.

    Staff are not supposed to talk to new public about Scientology, they are supposed to just show them videos. The newest “orgs” have the video kiosks installed, supposedly eliminating the need for staff and any human interaction.

    So just about everyone in the CoS is getting their anchor points pushed in shrinking their beingness instead of expanding it.

    It’s all “Shut up, don’t talk about it. Shut up and listen to me.”

    Definitely time to reverse the flow!

  168. martyrathbun09

    It is illegal auditing Christie. It is auditing someone against their own determinism.

  169. WH
    I totally get how that could happen.
    Very well done for getting your life and sanity back. That takes courage and a whole lot of OT ability all by itself.

  170. martyrathbun09

    Whatever it is Mark, I am not sure, but I am sure the PL you allude to applies.

  171. You are indeed cause.
    Fly high songbird.

  172. Floating Needle

    That was Awesome Scott!

    What’s the source? (lecture?)

  173. ss,
    One thing is for sure – Dear Leader has not allowed NOTs or progress up the grade chart for those SO (all veterans) working at the Int Base with exception of his personal office staff. Personally, I’ve made regular progress up the grade chart under LRH’s reign and NONE for 15 years after Dear Leader’s takeover on the auditing side of the Bridge.

    There are only a handful of OT 8s, those that need to be the case level like Ray & Gelda Mithoff, Angie Trent Lemoine who was RTC rep at the Freewinds now working as a steward. The base Qual throughout the years has been built up and then busted in continuous cycles and mostly does reviews/sec checks/FPRD.

    Aside from the omitted tech delivery terminals, there also have been quite a few “mandatory” or ordered courses by Dear Leader such as KTL, LOC, all Sea Org Basics, Vol 0, command channels, Ethics & Justice, Basics etc. similar to pulling public off to do their Basics (which aren’t basics). As an aside, all the military marching, close order drilling, boot camp, sword and flag waving which are contrary to the SO and part of the blind leading the blind divergence of Dear Leader.

    Perhaps the only way to make it to OT 8 for Int Base staff was to become an Ex. I met a few Base-Exs at a Freewinds MV in the mid 90’s who made it to OT 8 then weren’t invited to subsequent MVs as Dear Leader noticed them there as well! It’s just as well – we avoided the big Implant!

    It seemed odd to me that only one or two people Jeff and Ray were OT 8 and none of the experienced, trusty Tech veterans of RTRC such as Dan Koon and Russ Williams weren’t at the highest OT levels – who would do any debugs/pilots on 8 and compile 9-10? I’m sure these friends would not compile only half a level. Ray Mithoff was one of the earlier Declared SPs at the Int Base, and a resident of the Hole when that was created by David Miscavige.

    Thanks for the explanation of the implant, Marty. Makes sense that a lot of OT 8’s had problems which I had picked up through cross flow inside, but not really known if one is addicted to Kool Aid.

  174. Floating Needle

    Thanks Bruce… that brought a much needed chuckle to me!

  175. Lynne,
    It goes all the way down to Class VI orgs as well, not sure about mission level.

  176. Sugar Plum Fairey

    I beg to differ Tom, it has only been removed from The First Act text. The paragraph preceeds The First Act on page 25. So, it hasn’t been totally removed.
    Check it out!

  177. I know. Now that you remind me. I was on the ship when I heard the news and I was …


    Now we know.

    I’m so sorry for your loss — I had met him several times and he was quite the terrific person.


  178. Tony Dephillips

    One thing I really like about Independent Scientology is that it’s ok to communicate. In the cult it’s not.
    It seems we are all itsaing our realities now and that is a step up.

  179. Right you are 🙂


  180. @windhorse, what a testimony… I suspect that at least 3/4ths of the old OT VIII comps (see link below for up to 2005) experienced similar problems, many of whom do not appear to be active scientologists anymore. How I wish they would read this thread and your post and jump the ship once and for all.
    “Total OT 8 Completions April 2005 :This list has 1452 OT 8 Completions. The list includes all OT 8 Comps listed in Freewinds Magazine.”

    It is the truth that sets us free. Best wishes,

  181. Karen – thank you for your sweet comments but actually I think I’m just a rather lucky thetan.

    My situation was such that after my breakdown I had no money and practically crawled to my sister’s home, knowing she wouldn’t abandon me to the streets.

    She got me an apartment. I had next to no furniture. A futon, a tiny TV and tape player AND boxes of OT HATTING TAPES that I got from the $$ I had on account at AOSH. Some happy book store officer was only too delighted to debit my account of all the $$ I had to do the BC and other stuff and send me those tapes. Thousands of dollars worth of tapes.

    I owned them all. AND every day before heading off to work, I would listen to an hour or two. Making little index cards of key phrases or definitions that I particularly enjoyed. ( I still have that index file box)

    I made it MY game. To listen to ALL the OT HATTING tapes (there were at that time at least 20 series – maybe more)(over 300 tapes)… at least once. I listened to them ALL two times and was going on my third time …

    I then moved from the Houston area … and then as things do, my life changed again and again – finally finding myself studying buddhism, which I am delighted to be doing and happily so.

    So — I’ve been lucky. And credit my recovery to hours and hours of listening by myself to LRH. It changed my world.


  182. Tony Dephillips

    Hey Marty,
    I would like to get your opinion on what an OT 7 comp or 8 could do as auditing since the other OT levels are not released?
    I believe LRHsaid he researched up through OT 15 or so.

  183. On a similar line (re-cyling OTs) where an VIII is sent back to re-do the Bridge:
    At Flag was that it makes absolutely no difference if you received auditing (including OT Levels) in a prior lifetime. Nor are such gains acknowledged (moreover they are viewed with suspicion and invalidation).
    New body = redo the ENTIRE Bridge indicating to the being that he has become the irreducible minimum (a mere body) and poses the apathetic question;
    ‘So what’s the point?’

  184. Publius,
    To my knowledge no one did OT VIII on a pilot basis on the base. Never heard of anyone doing it and I was right on the tech lines in RTRC at the time. The materials were handled at RTC level with Ray and DM issuing them. Sue, who was on Solo NOTs at the time, if memory serves, was not involved with them. I think the first people on the level were the guinea pigs.

  185. That’s insulting to sharks 🙂

    Sharks are useful – they attack only to eat, they cull the oceans of the old and infirm and help keep the seabed free of dead creatures. A shark who isn’t hungry will just swim on by and leave possible prey alone.

    As for DM – he’s not like that. He just destroys continually and constantly, not because it’s useful across the spectrum to do so, but because he’s motivated only by fear.

  186. Tony,

    The most amazing thing is: what took Scn Inc many years years to accomplish on a person can be undone in mere hours with the right tech.

  187. Right. I recall Ray telling me once that OT VIII, IX and X were meant to be done in a block and that IX was a training action and X was a very long level. I got the impression that VIII was a lighter, orientation action not too unlike OT 1 after the Clearing Course. My data and understanding of this area of the Bridge is fragmentary at best but I do recall this conversation with Ray in the mid-90s. And I can corroborate that RTRC never touched these VIII materials.

  188. Some commit Suïcide or/and murder or crawl into their job/hat like Moxon. Some appear to show dissacociative behavior. Like being your long time friend one moment and than becomming a awefull monster of a reg than after asking if you are all right.

    Or becomming a walking Zombie like Dan Murnan

  189. He crudely understands power mechanisms

    This type of persons often times denie getting older and fear physical death.

  190. May I politely disagree.

    I’m sure he has learned at some time that he can achieve his goals by throwing a fit, by 3rd party-ing and by means of lies, manipulation, dishonest propaganda. But the history books are full of such people who grab power no matter what, by becoming a selfish company director, a dictator, a “democratically elected” president, a boss of a crime syndicate or something like that. These people are surrounded and enabled by fervent believers, opportunists, robotic followers and the like. That’s all nothing new – every lead wolf in a pack does it !

    But something IS new: this time he isn’t just ruining another company, city or country. Now he is doing severe damage a precious flower of spiritual awakening that had just started to blossom and flourish on this desert planet.

  191. This raises a question in my mind. Does anyone have any information on Flag FSM Michael Phillips? He was one of if not the top Flag FSM for many years. Does anybody know if he has opened his eyes to what is going on around him? Thanks in advance for any info.

  192. martyrathbun09

    Take a look at my post in late 09 on OT VIII “success stories.” He was one of them.

  193. Joe,
    Just ran across this on the 2ndACC:
    “You’re only trying to free him up to a point where he can recognize that he can have freedom. And after that, all the freedom he gets will be given to him by himself. But you get him up to a security where he knows he can have freedom, and he’s on his own. I mean, you can’t go any further with a thetan.”9 Dec 53 tape, Examples of SOP-8C Patter (Standard Op Procedure 8 Clinical).

  194. martyrathbun09

    Dan, Check my next post. The dictator told all Scientologists different at MV 2000.

  195. The Body in Pawn thing.

  196. martyrathbun09

    With DM overseeing the gps.

  197. Marty,
    Is this why celeb’s like Cruise, Travolta, Alley, others have not done VIII? Because DM is holding it back, knowing if they DID do it it would screw them up? Make them a public overt product for all the world to see?

    I’ve always wondered why there were no OT8’s out of the bigger, better known stars? No offense to other celebritys here. Honestly. Just curious.

  198. Thunk!

    That was the sound of my jaw hitting the floor.

    It’s now 10 minutes since I read your post Hy, and the shivers are still running up and down my spine. I’d been wondering for months how DM managed to convince so many OTs to go back and do stuff all over again. That is SO contrary to what auditing does, that I just could not compute with it. I put it aside as one of those things to be answered later.

    Well, “later” just happened.

    I never ever thought I’d say this, but I’ve had many opportunities since ’87 to make it go right and do the OT levels. I am so glad that somehow I managed to make it go wrong every time and not do them.


  199. martyrathbun09

    A wide variety of things – I have an eight foot by ten foot cabinet full of Scn books, and another two times that size worth of lectures. There’s gold in them thar hills. And I deal with people individually. And each one moves on up a little higher. We do not have any idea the potential of the subject – because only a fraction of it has been applied sanely. I am not playing the priest game of saying “hang on, THE next level awaits you – for a price of course.”

  200. OK, you stand there, by your comments. I’ll tie your shoes together and then give you a Tittie Twister and run. Oh, I’ll steal your cigar case first of course. I’ve got the Demerrara already.

    You and me T, face to face, big Churchill on the chomp, full glass of the amberest sipping rum, and Nerf guns.

  201. martyrathbun09

    Cause he’s got nothing after it, and Tom will demand it just like he demanded Idle orgs.

  202. Mirari,
    De-PTSing is right. After leaving, I did the right thing and stayed “off-lines” because I was declared an SP and did not want to enturbulate my friends. but after finding Marty, and realizing it was okay to communicate again, the truth came to light and I find HUGE BDFN’s just reading this blog from time to time.

    “How awful” was your goodness? I get that. I really do. But you see it all now! Take the win! Money is just MEST, and you’ll be surprised how all this communnication NOW will open the flows back up for you in a positive way. I’ve been in a steady affluence for the last 6 months, and still climbing.

    Do what Ron said. The rest can sort it sell out. 😉
    Stay tough!
    From one J.B. to another. 🙂

  203. typo
    …sort itself out.

    LOL Where’s the edit button??? LOL

  204. Bert Schippers

    Wow Mirari/JB – your last paragraph sums it all up so well.

    Thank you.

  205. Bert Schippers

    Great question! Scientology Inc. customers should be asking that one!

  206. It’s like the prelude or intro to Scn Clr Proc 1957.


  207. If someone came up to me and moved a piece of MEST using some paranormal force, that would be intimidating as Hell. I’d think that a Wog PI would also be intimidated. It would likely send them packing.

    If a trained OT8 moved a piece of MEST under scientifically controlled circumstances, that would be a headline-grabbing feat-one sure to expand Scientology.

    But telling the truth about what you’ve seen to a reporter? It is a powerful thing, to be sure. But, it does not require any paranormal ability.

    Nor does building an organization.

    If there are any OT powers to be had, I certainly have not seen them demonstrated.

  208. I haven’t read that other blog post (yet), but thought I’s chime in with some thoughts on what OT means to me.

    I’m not OT myself (never did any OT levels), I might be Clear but that’s never been clarified. The definition of OT is cause over matter, energy, space, time, form and life.

    That definition is not an absolute, there’s lots of room for gradients in there. One becomes OT gradiently, much like becoming “educated” – there’s no final end point and one can always become more educated that one is today.

    Even just managing to live from one day to the next requires some “OTness”, how else do you get your body to pick up one foot, put it down in front of the other and move down the street? Somehow or another the being has to pull the strings in the body’s brain to make the nerves and muscles operate – is that not being “cause over matter”?

    I firmly believe the state of OT is grossly misunderstood and what gets told in Class V orgs doesn’t help either. It’s not about party tricks and making teapots fly through the air with the greatest of ease – what’s the point of that? It’s not about canceling out gravity with “mind power” and getting to the moon with no effort – you’d have to get everyone else to agree on not having gravity first 🙂

    No, it’s more about getting things done, and getting them done within the reality framework of the rest of the world. Let’s say a real OT wanted to help a poor community become self-sufficient. I live in Africa, so this is something real to me. A real OT would engage people in the village, find out what the current score is, and help them find something useful they could do. They’d have to figure out how to get and use resources, there’s funding, finding markets for whatever the decide to produce and a whole lot of getting people up the Tone Scale and actively producing.

    Magic and parlour tricks forms no part of this – comm and ARC does. You don’t “wave” or “glow” it right – you persist in dealing with the people till things start moving in the direction of survival. You have to have good intentions across the dynamics, you have to be somewhat free of your own doubts and uncertainties to pull it off and you have to be willing to confront people and listen while they tell you all their reasons it cannot be done.

    To me, that’s what OT must be all about. I don’t need a magic teapot that flies (I can rig up an internet-enabled coffee percolator instead 🙂 ), I do need to regain the ability to move a group forward to survival.

    Maybe a real OT or three can chip in with their thoughts on how near or far to the mark I am?

  209. Gary, I appreciate the reply. 🙂

    But, I have to ask, what is so “OT”-like about being able to talk your way out of a stressful situation? I’ve certainly done so on multiple occasions, as many people do every day.

    I’m sorry, but I just don’t see how that matches what LRH said about being “OT”.

  210. Marty,
    Regarding Joe Howard’s post, “I recall Ray telling me once that OT VIII, IX and X were meant to be done in a block and that IX was a training action and X was a very long level.”

    In your opinion or from data you have, would Ray have merely been blowing smoke to have laid claim to knowledge about the structure of 8, 9 and 10?

  211. Tony Dephillips

    Sounds fun Bro!

  212. martyrathbun09 | March 16, 2011 at 12:19 pm | Reply

    Yes. Your ride on OT VII is only too typical, the rule and not the exception. I have referred to the NOTS band serviing as the prior confusion to the implant of “OT VIII.” Hopefully some of the OT VIIIs of more recent vintage will share their Freewinds experience. It is your experience, plus unbelievable financial and ethics pressure added, and all condensed into a few weeks.”

    I’ll use this as a springboard.

    Having been around the FZ for more than a decade I have made some observations. Have also had much communication with many senior Rons Org terminals, including “EDs” of local ” orgs”, and in particular one who is proud to handle any upper level repair . The above do not include the senior RO terminals Max and Erica Hauri
    and Otfried Krumholz, who I’ve also had much communication with. In general they consider the wonderful Russian success is because they do Excal. Personally I think the main reason is that russian speakers were very interested in seeking western ideas previously denied them re philosophy and religion, and had no knowledge of the awful problems of CO$ PR.

    I have no particular preference to Excal or NOTs. Havn’t done iether but touched on the area in later stages of OT 3.

    Those who have done Excal are REALLY enthusiastic about it.

    Those who’ve done NOTs on the whole less so. Even when done in the FZ.

    There is another issue, the FZ has only OTV, audited NOTs.
    OT 6 the course to enable one to do OT7 is not generally available.

    That good or bad in the light of the initial post?

    Earlier versions of OT VII were much shorter than the current regime.

    Perhaps Glen Samuels may wish to comment here. He was on the first NOTs course.

    Re OT abilities. The tech dict. defs of some of these have only been achieved sporadically and rarely repeatably. To do so one must somehow overcome all the postulates in the creation of this shared universe. I have done this on the most insignificant
    manner. Moving electrons by thought alone. No one else observed this and after a couple of days couldn’t repeat it.

    My current thoughts re OT is that yes we must be. we have universes and existence. And to quote Anon ” Lulz”, we have games. 🙂

    I don’t consider there is a higher power than me or thee.

    Its our creation. 🙂

  213. martyrathbun09

    Absolutely. Frankly, knowing all that went down during LRH’s last six years (which if I can ever get some time to devote to finishing my book I’ll lay out in the context it and he deserves) I am not hung up in the slightest for answers in anything he may have written in the last four. If you take what Joe said – who hasn’t spoken a false word since he left that I can find, or what Tom M says about Walker (and I have no reason to question Tom’s recall on that) it is further testament to what I have said that there is no IX and X. Miscavige and Broker mocked up IX and X as a power play. After LRH died, they played a weird game of who has the holy grail – LRH’s pre-OT folders. When Miscavige discovered there was no holy grail and had successfully took out Broker, who was holding the holy grail over Miscavige’s head to keep him at bay, he kept mocking it up to hold over all of our collective heads. Later, after the holy grail had been scoured thoroughly and sacreligiously for years, Miscavige accused Ray at least twice in my presence that they haven’t got a clue to upper OT levels because Ray didn’t get it out of LRH when he was giving him assists for his transition out of the body (couching it in my prescence as “didn’t duplicate what LRH said”). He did that to keep Ray at effect and keep him from ever telling the story I am going to tell – see he implanted Ray deep and viciously, including with savage beatings, sleep deprivation, and the worst kind of inval. God I wish Ray would grow a pair. But, alas I don’t think that’ll ever come to pass.

  214. Tony Dephillips

    Sounds like a plan.
    : )

  215. Meant to Add this.

    11th March 2010, 01:06 AM
    Patron with Honors
    Join Date: Mar 2010
    Posts: 268

    Hello! This thread is to answer Tommy Davis’s glibness.

    I met Tommy during my second EPF in the Sea Org (actually a 2 months Boot Camp type of EPF), he was eating beans and rice every day, washing our clothes, doing the worst MEST work you can imagine, doing pumps up for hours…because he fucked up a “VIP” cycle.

    At that time he wasn’t so proud to be a Sea Org Member, I can tell you.

    Now, let’s talk about cancer and suicide on Solo Nots. Here are some data for you guys.

    There is a tag status for each Solo Nots auditor:

    Green tag: audit 4 to 6 sessions daily and comes on time for his 6 months check.

    Grey tag: audit less than 4 sessions daily and doesn’t come on time for his 6 month check.

    Orange tag: Not allowed to solo audit because of out ethics situation.

    Purple tag: Not allowed to audit because of illness or sickness.

    Black tag: Disaffected with the church.

    See the way it works? One starts the level with a Green tag then, depending on his “ability to be Cause over Life” one keeps his Green tag or, follow the dwindling spiral to Black tag.

    There are about 5,300 Solo Nots Auditors worldwide and about(depending on their current status):

    1,000 Green tags
    1,100 Grey tags
    900 Orange tags
    800 Purple tags
    1,500 Black tags

    The 10,000 on Solo Nots is just a dream. There is only 1,000 of them auditing regularly.

    I was Solo Nots D of P Europe and i personally met the following Solo Nots Auditors. They were all with advanced cancer:

    • Roberto B. – Italy
    • Antonella B. – Italy
    • Beppe G. – Italy
    • Sonia B. – Italy
    • Pierluigi G. – Italy
    • Bernard C. – Switzerland
    • Jo R. – Switzerland
    • Tasa D. – France
    • Helene M. – France

    There is more, but I do not remember their names.

    Before I blew the Sea Org in November 2006,two of them died of committed suicide; Jo R. and Beppe G.

    I don’t know if the other ones are still alive.

    The majority of the 800 Purple tags and 1,500 Black tags are with cancer, HIV, diabetes and non optimum physical conditions.

    The majority of the 900 Orange tags committed financial irregularities to be able to “pay for services and/or donations” to the Cult.

    Rex Fowler is a typical Orange tag product of the Cult.

    You all know the PTS/SP tech “theory”, right?

    How many of them had to disconnect from their family and friends because they where the ”SP”?

    Why, after an entire bridge people are still sick, ill, criminal, commit suicide, etc..?

    Maybe they didn’t find the real SP yet….. or, if they did, they invalidated the read.

    At one point every body on Solo Nots had to do or re do the PTS/SP Course GAT.

    And the SNR C/S FSO Richard Reiss (pushed by RTC, of course) was constantly harrassing the Solo Nots C/S “because they didn’t apply the PTS tech at 100%” during their C/Sing.

    Well, a cancerous tumor is not detectable by a SN C/S as far as i know!

    I can attest! Beppe G. had a cancerous tumor the size of an egg in his brain while at Flag to “Attest to OT7”! I went with him to the Clearwater Hospital. He was sent back to Italy right away by RTC….

    Imagine the Flap if Beppe died in the middle of the Solo Nots HGC!

    These data should be widely disseminated. It’ s not a joke. These guys are really in danger.


    PS: the medical associations should be aware of this data. Scientology technology doesn’t cure cancer….when a cancer isn’t detected on time, it’s too late. Unfortunalely, from a Scientologist view point, a doctor is considered a charlatan.
    love is the universal solvent…..splurge on it!!

  216. martyrathbun09

    And you probably never will. OTs don’t play parlor tricks. They can’t. You’d have to experience some time up around Postulates and Serenity of Beingness on the Tone Scale to understand.

  217. martyrathbun09

    Reader beware. Written by a spectator who hasn’t done NOTs and SOLO NOTs, and has a proclivity for promoting gurus.

  218. My journey on OT7 was long and arduous but, I have to admit, when I finished, I was doing great! I was really gung ho! I had been a very dedicated Scientologist for 35 years at that time. I wanted to become a full time FSM and even entertained joing staff. On the ship, after the long elig sec check (I had just finished my 6 month elig sec check at Flag) I had some good wins on the theory part of OT8 but not so much after that. I saw and experienced many outpoints while I was there but, I kept my mouth shut because I saw 2 people who did mention something get added sec check questions. I couldn’t afford more intensives. To me the attitude on the entire line was, you are here and we are going to make sure you know who is boss. I never felt cared for at all except in the regular Div4 course room. When I left there, I was still winning to an extent but, I was also in the tone level of terror. I KNEW I would never go back there and I had one foot out the door of the church. I never followed through with my dreams to help because my heart was no longer in it. I would have never thought I would ever feel this way. So, is something wrong with this scene? Ya think? It’s right out of KSW! OT 7’s and 8’s are not all of a sudden becoming SP’s! And all the good people that are out or under the radar are not SP’s either! All of the “enemies” the church sees ARE BEING CREATED by the church! I am out now because I believe any chance of reform to any degree will come about through pressure from the outside. Even if it is only in some small degree.
    On a brighter note, I am back to battery and more since my trip to Casa Blanca. I handled what I wanted handled with little effort. I feel like, I feel I should have felt when I left the ship. Marty, the king! Mosey, the Queen! Thank you, LA

  219. This is one of my favorite quotes,
    begin fair use,
    “In order to make up one’s mind to be responsible for things, it is necessary to get over the idea that one is being forced into responsibility. The power of choice is still senior to responsibility. What one does against his will operates as an overt act against oneself. But where one’s will to do has deteriorated to unwillingness to do anything, lack of will is itself an aberration” LRH from HCOB 4 Feb 1960

  220. martyrathbun09

    LA, Thanks for sharing this. That you came out so sane and OT is testament to you, your training and LRH; imho.

  221. Yes, I’d like to know that too. If he’s the “Chairman of the Board” who’s the “Board” and couldn’t they vote him out? All of this is such bullshit! 😦

  222. martyrathbun09

    I never received notice of any kind of being taken off the board. And I voted him out long ago.

  223. “ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”

    Marty, you make a point every week of calling Miscavige out as a Suppressive Person. He uses his position to trick people into giving him their money and control over their lives, and then he takes that money and control and spreads evil all over the planet. You know this.

    If you, or anyone else you know, have the means to put his VYRUS into a wall at 80 mph, or interfere with the electrical signals in his heart, or paralyze him from the neck down, *that’s not a parlor trick*. That is following the above policy.

    What differentiates a “parlor trick” from “verifying the tech works”, Marty? It makes no sense to claim that if someone spends years of their life (not to mention money) they will gain OT abilities, but then forbid that person to never demonstrate them. If you really want to expand Scientology, show people what they’ll gain; people will beat a path to your door.

    For that matter, what good is having OT abilities if you cannot use them? How is that making you, “free”?

    I don’t get it. It’s one thing for DM to not have-or be able to deliver- OT powers, because he’s a lying crook.

    It’s another level of dereliction of duty entirely to have the power to stop him, but then you don’t.

  224. martyrathbun09

    I use OT abilities every day. That is the beauty of Scientology and OT abilities being regained – it is self protecting. They don’t work for evil ends nor do they work for showing off.

  225. martyrathbun09 | March 16, 2011 at 10:51 pm | Reply

    “Reader beware. Written by a spectator who hasn’t done NOTs and SOLO NOTs, and has a proclivity for promoting gurus.”

    Lol! The guru I’m promoting is thee and me and everyone else.

    Screw the wrong indication. 🙂

    Reader beware is good tech!

    Spectator? !!!


    I was promoting the FZ around a decade before you looked at it.
    in the most inhospitable places to do so. Which paradoxically were the best places. In that time averaged 25 new people to FZ forums or requests for auditors etc per month.

    No I’m not that much of a techie. But have communicated over years to almost all of then outside CO$, met many of them. Have hands on posted a decades worth of success stories to the net from all levels. I’ve picked up much info. Also read OT V and much of Excal.

    Pierre Ethier has been in contact with many class XIIs. he has best I know an OT VIII and IX. He says. I’m not promoting him as a Guru. Had too many fights with him.

    His tech ability has been validated by the most successful.

    Don’t take my word for it. Look don’t listen and you know
    who to listen to. 🙂

  226. This needs to be said: if you think D.M. does not understand Scientology Tech, just because he never finished his Class IV Internship, I’d say you were gravely mistaken. He understands it alright – exactly how to use it to cave people with restimulation.
    This cat has now had a few decades to review Ron Hubbard’s original materials for both the Lower and Upper levels of Scientology. All the GPM materials from the St. Hill Special Briefing Course & the Clearing Course – the detailed blueprints for the construction as well as deconstruction of Reactive Banks. Detailed information on how a Clear comes to possess and be controlled by a Reactive Bank. All the Class VIII Course confidential materials about the nature of the implanted GPM’s and how that relates to OT III, etc. , etc, etc,
    David McSavage has chosen to use all vast knowledge base of Scientology as his Manual of Enslavement and applies every single Hubbard “Thou Shalt Not!” as a guiding precept to be used to harm beings.
    Do not underestimate this vicious little bastard! He is armed with Scientology and uses it to harm , enslave and destroy – just as Hubbard warned might be done some day.
    Fortunately for us, the same subject can be used to undo any abuse committed with it.
    Michael A. Hobson

  227. Was it wearing an expensive suit?

  228. Joe Pendleton

    Yeah, Laura,that’s one of my favorite quotes too. About 5 years ago, when I started having “my troubles” with the church, I jotted that quote down on a card and have carried it around with me ever since.

  229. OTDT,

    Check out “transposition of beingness” in PDC lecture #24 I believe it is in….

  230. Scott Campbell

    Thank you Leonore.

    I can tell you what, Scientology works and you should avail yourself of it. For your sake and ours.

    L, Scott

  231. Scott Campbell

    I gotta see your riff on that subject, bro.

  232. Marty,
    Thanks for that – had quite a lot of question and mystery on the cycle and your data straightened out a lot of confusion. Added to that was this apparent Hidden data line from Pat Broeker regarding the upper OT levels from LRH, as mentioned in the DM/Broeker death event at the LA Palladium. Those two’s mannerism smack of some kind of collusion and presentation of a big huge carrot with smoke and mirrors. Come to find out from later from Sarge that Big P mostly wasn’t at Creston the last year before LRH left.

    One thing I cannot forget is how DM and Pat were so happy and joking around at the Creston ranch the day after LRH left. Gelda Mithoff from the Int base was brought up that morning and she got us in session to handle our big loss in Jan 86.

  233. Scott Campbell

    Glad I caused a bit of a stir here. The T/A’s movin’!

  234. Pingback: Top Posts —

  235. martyrathbun09

    Actually, it was Broeker’s brainchild. Miscavige’s jaw dropped when Broeker announced OT IX and X were packaged and ready for delivery. That is what the raids were about at NewBerry and later Creston; the search for the holy grail that turned out not to exist. But, then Miscavige – scheming as he is – decided to use on us what Broeker had used on him.

  236. martyrathbun09

    Every blog needs its jester I suppose.

  237. Scott Campbell

    Good point Lynne.

    Badges? We don’t need no stinking badges!

  238. Scott Campbell

    We are spirits living in the material world.

  239. Expelled 4 Life

    Doubtful. MP’s income is from FSMing and his kid is in the SO last I knew. MP is a class act so who knows.

  240. Scott Campbell


    Go see Marty.

    I GUARANTEE it will be a boon for you. Even with all of your experience in Buddhism, you should clean up your Scn track.

    The best thing I ever did since leaving the Sea Org (in 1994) was to get a clean up from Trey Lotz. Wow.

    A being with as much love in her heart as you have does not deserve to be in any pain.

    L, Scott

  241. Pdc tape 20 has a pretty drastic, and rather odd alteration to it.

    “Therefore, we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is

    Here is excerpt from older version of PDC, NOTE: LRH IS actually saying this
    in the older version. (copyright L RON HUBBARD)

    “Therefore, we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is
    Did you ever read poor old George Orwell’s 1984? Yes,yes, that’s wonderful.
    That would be——–could be the palest imagined shadow of what a
    world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology
    with no remedy in existence.”

    “It’s a very simple remedy. And that’s-just make sure that the
    remedy is passed along. That’s all. Don’t hoard it and don’t hold it.”

    Older version, copyright L RON HUBBARD:

    It’s a very simple remedy. And that’s-just make sure that the remedy
    is passed along. That’s all.Don’t horde it, don’t hold it; and if you
    ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled
    Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available. Because
    he’s the boy who would be electing himself “The New Order.” And we
    don’t need any more new orders. All those orders, as far as I am
    concerned, have been filled.

  242. Scott Campbell


  243. Scott Campbell

    Thanks Guys.

  244. That makes a lot of sense. Ray Mithoff hung around with Broeker for several months afterwards both in Creston and in Newberry to sniff around and find the holy grail. I did wonder why he was around, when he had a big job as Snr CS Int.

  245. Good to know, I guess I should study those materials then. After I finish the SHSBC “wall-o-tapes”, which is this year’s tech project.

  246. Han,

    I find the fact that DM has been doing this to and in Scientology is significant.

    I believe LRH severely upset someone’s applecart. DM appears to me to be part and parcel of a control operation that was begun by at least the late 1960s, when Ron announced “The OT Course has started!”

    The Vietnam war was in full swing and the military Draft was going full blast.

    Emerging from the McCarthy/Hoover eras, there was suddenly a huge upsurge of theta across the country when the OT levels were released. There was a thrust for greater liberty, freedom and self-determinism all across the country, a spiking interest in ancient and modern spiritual philosophies and the emergence of an entire “counter-culture”, not just in opposition to, but parallel to the existing status quo, which was projected to be an evolution to a higher level of the society.

    The control operation was the wholesale release and promotion of drugs like LSD as a technological short-cut to higher states of consciousness and awareness. It was an operation designed to introvert people away from their “looking at”(obnosing) the actual
    extant scenes and doing something effective about them through social activism.

    It worked to a large extent. Thousands of intelligent and perceptive potential activists were diverted into sitting around stoned and tripping, instead of obnosing the real existing social problems (and problem-makers!) An entire generation was in fact was undermined by this operation..

    The pitch was why discipline yourself for months or years through meditation or TRs or auditing or any such process, when you can have Enlightenment in a pill? This was pitched by the likes of Timothy Leary, among others.

    I think it’s possible that beings who were using the planet as their own little fiefdom and game preserve, their own little lot of “banana republics” saw LRH and Scientology as a threat to their fun and games and acted very pre-emptively and in a big way, to put a stop to any chance of people and societies “Moving on up a little higher”.

    It looks to me like DM is just part of this ongoing thrust, to blunt, keep under control, and eliminate the threat of a “revolt of the serfs” here on Earth.
    I believe Scientology does epitomize that threat to these kind of beings.
    It is a fact, that most of the wealth of the planet is concentrated in the hands of a relatively few people, and they want to keep it that way. Their wealth is symbolic of their relative freedom to do whatever they want to do whenever they want to do it with impunity, in contrast to the binding economic duress most of the population lives under that keeps most people on a treadmill just to survive and of course keep paying our taxes, much in the way of DM’s circular “hamster-wheel of a “Bridge”.

    So, you decide. Perhaps I have read too much science-fiction in my life. I don’t doubt some of it is just random. But I was here for the 1960s and 1970s, and that’s how it looked to me then, and still looks to me now. And a lot of those sci-fi writers were very intelligent people who extrapolated and made inferences from what they were seeing actually happening in their times.

  247. Scientology Religous Technology Center (RTC)
    non-profit religous corporation documents

    Current officers as Dec 20 2009 (due for update Dec 2011)

    * CEO :: Warren Mcshane
    * Secretary :: Laurisse Stuckenbrock
    * CFO :: Barbara Griffin

    Initial RTC Trustees (Jan 1982):
    (It Appears – Current Trustees not available thru these public record requests)


    Current/Past Statement Of Information filings with California Secretary of State:

    Initial Articles of Incorporation 1982

    Amended Articles of Incorporation 1982-94

    Best site on putting it all together

  248. Joe P, Cool!

  249. Scott Campbell

    Yeah Bruce.

    I’m not so sure of the provenance of that RJ 39 or OTVIII.

    I recall my wife and I looking at each other going, “What the hell?” It sure didn’t sound right. more like a bunch of cherrypicked clips of LRH strung together.

    Audio editing tattletales can be masked in any number of ways thtt are difficult to filter out for analysis. Particularly after numerous “re-masterings”.


  250. Sorry. Hit enter too soon.

    Outside perspective / question

    “Tom will demand it just like he demanded Idle orgs” – Oooh can you expand on this comment?

    I have always been terribly puzzled from the wog standpoint, at this idea of unreleased upper levels after OT8. And the St Hill org stipulation… WHY? If this is a prison planet, if this tech is the only hope for mankind, WHY hold it back? Why keep it from being released?

    This is a rhetorical question naturally, because as you’ve said, he’s got nothing after it. But this is a really salient question from observers on the outside… it really seems to be unfairly punishing longtime parishioners and longtime OT8’s.

    Which leads to my wog-flavored questions… what is a DMology OTVIII supposed to do after completing OTVIII? Again I realize this sounds rhetorical, because what DM is doing is sending people back for retreads and redos and to start the Bridge over, but what is the generally understood / PR standpoint of an attested OTVIII? To be community leaders and get the orgs Idled? To not be moving on the Bridge at all? Is it considered an endpoint on the Bridge, a destination, or just a stopping point? And THEN if DM is feeling really really really nice, MAYBE he’ll release these (upper levels that don’t really exist?)

    And for the Independents, what can one audit on past an OTVIII completion? Can Scientology progress as a dynamic process / journey where it starts with a reliance on the work of LRH? Has it been set up as a journey? I’m sorry if I sound ignorant, I’d just really like to know.

    Thanks in advance…

  251. I don’t know about everyone else. But when I think about it, I have had freedom from amnesia on the whole track ever since I ran my first session and went whole track.

    Anyone who has gone whole track is free from whole track amnesia.

    Was that too simple and obvious?

  252. Scott Campbell

    Thanks M’ Lady.


    Boy o’ boy if the opportunity ever presents itself I sure would like to. Only trouble right now is that I’m about halfway into a career that it takes 30 years to get a full pension out of. Kinda vested in it.

    L, Scott

    P. S. I’m always lookin’ for opportunities though!

  253. Thanks for the giggle!!

  254. Mr. Fancy,
    This whole line of accusation, “perform a psychokinetic feat or Scientology doesn’t work” is… is… well it’s just so much…umm, er, yes well there you go; no feats of magic that can give me physical universe agreement that they can be done, Scn, no workie.

    OK then. You’re right, the jig’s up, dance is over, yep, all a big joke, large swindle, just kidding, nah, really just kidding, nothing to see here, move along.

    I guess I’ll just have to get my ass off the couch and pick up the damn ashtray after all. LRH – liar, pants on fiar.

    What, too flip? Not taking this seriously enough? No scientific validation of telekinetic powers at will and I’m being flip!!!???

    Tell me, Monsieur Fanthy, what pray is ‘time’? Hmmmmmm? What, please DO tell, is ‘physical proof’? How doth that relate to the ‘time=logic’ thingie? Hmmmmm.

    Pull that trick off, answering the above that is, and I’ll untwist your knickers as a parlor trick you’ll surely feel, let alone see.

  255. AWESOME POST Marty!
    I said enough when my C/S wanted me to do an “advance program” before I did NOTs. I surveyed all my friends who did the “advance program” and one for one they were redoing(R3RA) Clear. That is when I said “I AM DONE WITH THIS BS!” It was the final straw for me.
    I figured that was how DM was just getting more $$ out of people and didn’t get the implant quality until this post. WOW! Thanks for the pill Marty/Morpheus 🙂

  256. Scott Campbell

    I have personal experience with that technique from a child molester. The admonition to silence was enforced with a death threat. Rather unfortuitous timing on my father’s part in the form of inflicting cruel physical, verbal and emotional abuse on me ensured that my silence lasted until just this last year.

    I’ll be 49 in June.

    Like I said. Glad I went to see Trey Lotz for a clean up. I’m just now handling the stuff that I originally got into Scn to handle.


  257. Scott Campbell

    The fear of death is in anticipation of what his bank will put him through between lives.

  258. Marty,
    Profoundly astute, particularly in the way you’ve stated it. In many ways even more revealing than your initial expose’ that DM was the chief architect of a mentally and physically abusive environment of hell.

    DM is not the only Black and Blue Meanie either, even if he is the Chief Meanie or even the Architect of Meanies. Along the line of screwing up OT VIII, let’s look at two other dipshits in this horror show, Jeff (Asshole) Walker and Ray (Micro-Penis) Mitthoff.

     Why so harsh, oh why so harsh? Well, first of all let’s look at Mitthoff. He is the published author and signatory on the OT VIII HCOB. What? Wait, wait, wait…it’s a red on white Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin.  It’s horribly written, badly worded, obviously sparse in data and instruction to the point of practically being cryptic, and needless to say, very un-LRH-like.

    Shame on Mitthoff for having the audacity to plant his name on a supposedly genuine sacred LRH-only-allowed document. There is or WAS a policy letter that stated explicitly who was allowed to publish what type of document and what authoritative significance and seniority each had. 

    As is known, HCOBs and HCOPLs were specifically designated as not only being senior to all other published directives but were ONLY allowed to be authored by LRH.  Now, if that ain’t true, then I’m just an unthinking rock on the side of a remote cliff in Tibet.

    The idea that LRH gave the go-ahead to Mayo or anyone else in the past to author and publish an HCOB or PL based on his instructions may be true, and I’m sure it is, but it was on-policy and approved and carried the untarnished weight of an LRH endorsement, not some lackey DM suck-boy’s name…Mitthoff…ptoooie.

    When I saw Mitthoff’s name on that document as the main signatory it ARC-broke the shit out of me right then and there. Puzzled the living shit out of me to no end. My Trust Alarm started flashing red. I called the sup over and said, “Ah, hmmm…what the hell is somebody else’s name doing on this HCOB?” Answer: it’s approved. Prod more. Answer: “It’s compiled from LRH instructions.” Prod more. Answer: “Well, obviously if LRH wasn’t around any longer to author or put his name to it, someone had to.” Prod more. Answer: “I assure you, Int Management would not be doing this if it was not OK.” Prod more. Answer: A sheepish smile, a shrug of the shoulders, a blank stare.

    I figured out how to audit the level despite its cryptic incompleteness.  It WAS  powerful and very cool ’till you hit a snag; they did NOT have ANY debug method for unsnarling yourself if you hit any difficulty.

    I saw several people go insane while on the level. One friend of mine was on the ship for six months getting intensive after intensive after intensive, funded by her boss the Feschbachs, trying to debug her with who knows what piece of ‘tech’.  Whatever they were doing on her sure wasn’t working. She was the Poster Child for despair. Wonderful and beautiful girl. I’d actually be surprised if she was still alive today. But they sure did have the bucket up to the faucet of her benefactor for quanto jolly dinero, with David Light leering in the dark background, rubbing his hands together, licking his sneering lips and drooling while he counted the blood money out oh so accurately.

    Mitthoff put a permanent black stain on his soul when he put his name on that document, which wasn’t his to put it on. He knew better than to publish incomplete rundowns with weird endings.  If it was from being pressured by DM he should have knocked the little twerp out cold instead of allowing himself to be slapped and humiliated and commanded into being a disgraceful bootlicking conniving marketing whore.

    Now to Walker. Walker was always an arrogant bully prick with a putrid personality operating on some kind of antagonistic held down seven just because he didn’t get laid enough. He knew they were chopping up and squirreling the level and he participated in covering up that secret as though his life depended on fulfilling a contract to blow Miscavige on command. Ptoooie right on his shoes, too.  Just a big phony fake tough guy sissy-whore who in the end is found to have stuffed the crotch of his pants with grapefruits masquerading for balls.

    I don’t care if these smegma-heads got themselves accidentally implanted or brainwashed or were struck by a zillion-watt trans-universe Black-Theta lightning bolt by some Super-Multi-God for a chuckle; they STILL had a choice to show what they were really made of and voila! they turn out to be cheap counterfeit Rolexes selling themselves off as the real deal.  Ptoooie! Hock a loogie. Have a middle finger at no charge on me. (no pun intended)

    They could have and should have turned and squashed the Chief Black and Blue Meanie and then put the level out properly. Period. Or left and redeemed themselves like the way you did, Marty.  No redemption for them.

    Wherever Walker is now, New Zealand I would imagine, on a sheep farm bullying the sheep probably, I’ll bet he’s grumbling to himself like a homeless wandering city-bum with his pants around his ankles.  He should just strap on an eternally-powered automated ass-kicking boot apparatus to his ass until he writes an open letter of apology to all OT VIIIs and while he’s at it he should beg forgiveness from every single person he abused in Scientology with his toxic attitude for probably forty years. Maybe you could have a go at those sheep Jeff, you know, release some of that tension.

     Mitthoff is now doing what? Shining DM’s shoes probably, that is, whenever he’s able to beg permission to unlock his lips from around the pleasure rod of his master. Maybe he truly does feel that DM is oh so Kha-khan because oh my gosh look at all the money coming in and look at the spectacular shiny new empire of buildings being erected just like the Egyptians putting up the Pyramids in fast-motion or. Hey, DM did contribute to the subject, he added a whole extra swing onto the F/N; that should count for something.

    Maybe you can feel something that we don’t…that he is erecting something after all…yeah…like his wang in your ever ready trembling mouth. Ptoooie!

    Here’s a one-finger salute to you too, Mitty.

    I’m sure there’s a lot longer cast of characters whose suction cup lips would resist being pried off DM’s ass long enough for us to catch a glimpse of their sorry faces, but it’s moot, immaterial and fruitless as far as I’m concerned.

    Oh yeah, then they called all the OT VIIIs back after finishing and lied and said, “OMG! Somehow we really screwed up something bad on everybody when you guys did VIII and you could die from it, it’s really bad and you have to come back so we can fix it. We had to comm Ev the supervisor.  It’s heavy. You don’t have a say in the matter, how soon can you get here? I was shocked; I didn’t need any ‘fixing’.

    When I got there, there was no ‘fix’ for anything. It was a lie. They made you restudy the exact same materials and re-audit the exact same process until you were ground into spiritual hamburger, then spit you out of the Fargo-chipper conveyor belt assembly line from the Black Thetan Machine as a product to be sent to Flag where they could blast your skull from all angles with death rays just to make sure you were good and smashed.

    Goodbye gains. Hello smashedness. Welcome to madness. 

    I left. I hid. I played dumb.

     Squads of uniformed RTC officers took to banging on my front door for two hours at a clip, yelling through the mail slot, insistent that I come out of hiding so they could put my skull back in their torture-vise and give the lever a few more hard yanks ’till they could hear the bones crack and report compliance of another captured slave, earning themselves a cookie from their Master.

    Ultimately, they tricked me into meeting them, ambushing me with an attempted gang-bang metered ‘handling’. Luckily, I dodged their mind-fuck rays and was able to slip from their grasp by creating a vortex escape tunnel with the piercing sound of my Jettero Heller-caliber space engineer’s voice.

    VIII the first time was actually kinda cool and beneficially OT but I know I escaped doom and destruction by the hair of my chinny-chin-chin. The same cannot be said for the second time through nor the unrecognizable ‘auditing’ they subsequently hoisted on me at the Flag Entheta Factory with their ever-changing guard of robo-implanters.

    I dropped the nightmare of the Church, auditing and the whole kit and kaboodle of the subject of Scientology like hot potatoes made from leaking plutonium fuel rods.  My distrust of any such ‘help’ is now made of impenetrable Damascus steel encased in a radiation vault surrounded by a moat filled with poisoned water, sharks, piranha, mines and scuba guards armed with laser-tipped spear guns.

    I know how people can fuck things up, but I must say I’m still puzzled as to why LRH didn’t see to it that VIII and whatever else he had up his sleeve got compiled and written up and packaged and issued before he exited the game. Could his breath show on a mirror? That was his policy.

    As many did, I put a lot of work and study into the subject of Scientology and I pretty much got out of it what I put into it, so I feel we’re even, except for half the fee of OT VIII that technically, mathematically and morally the Church should refund to me, along with a letter of apology for short-changing me.

  259. Scott Campbell


    Ever had this happen to you? You’ve just died, you float up toward “heaven” and you are filled with warmth, love, joy and light.

    You encounter a “there/not there” presence and have a comm cycle with it. You get to ask it questions and it answers them (although the answers don’t quite satisfy the questions). As you are going through the “wash and rinse” cycle it becomes apparent to you that you do not qualify for residence in “heaven” and will have to go to “purgatory”.

    The next thing you know you are hanging upside down looking at some brightly lit dude with a surgical mask on who spanks your butt and announces to the world “It’s a boy!” or some such.

    Sound familiar?

  260. Sinar, To serve as testimony to your observations, the LRH memorial can be viewed on you tube. Just type in LRH Memorial and it is fascinating to watch dm and broeker with everything that we know now. Liars, plain and simple.

  261. Theo Sismanides

    Hey Marty and everybody, as I opened my iPHone to see the blog I saw this ad “Truth about Scientology, You’ ve heard the controversy, Now get the Facts. Watch Online Video” Ads by Google.

    That came right below the TRUTH REVEALED ABOUT OT VIII title.

    Hahaha, they are resisting, they are resisting and reaching and reaching for a fight, hahaha. But we are not going to reach back this time.

    What controversy guys, we know the truth, don’t need your videos!!

    Marty, so that you are aware of it. They put an ad in the middle of our blog on the iPhone.

  262. Yep 🙂

  263. Jim,

    I am sitting here just having read your comment and I am experiencing physical phenomena akin to large physical chunks of heavy mass lifting from my “shoulders”. It is the same phenomena I have experienced in particularly mind blowing sessions I have had over the years. Your words gave me a “cognition” regarding the nature of NOTS and its relationship to a being and I feel some glimmer of truth peaking around the corner. I can’t quite see it fully, but the concept is that I had accepted lies as truth. Real hard truth. Incontestable. Unquestionable. Things you wouldn’t even think to examine. They’re just true, you know. Well they lifted like a puff of smoke and things look a lot brighter at the moment.

    I really want to thank you for taking the time to share your understanding of this scenario. I am changed because of it. Thank you.

    Hy Levy

  264. martyrathbun09

    OTDT, I feel ya. If you are ever in the area, can we at least break tortillas at a Taqueria? I’m buying. I don’t think it could do either of us any harm.

  265. martyrathbun09

    Watch DM’s eyes as he “greets” Broker, and the split second after. That two seconds speaks volumes as to what was to come over the next three years.

  266. Joe,

    I was starting to cotton onto the idea that something was amiss when 6 month checks in many cases literally took 6 months or more to complete.

    LA Pre OTs would literally vanish into thin air once arriving at Flag (anyone ever notice how close Clearwater is to the Bermuda Triangle 😉 ) never to be heard from again.

    Yes very mysterious indeed.

  267. Yeah, I remember that one. Cool.

  268. blackdove,
    Honestly, straight up, no kidding and it’s really THE best way to go, buy and read DMSMH. Get the Dianetic DVD put out last year (find on the internet at wikileaks or other places an issue written by LRH on 3 April 1966, Dianetic Auditing Course, which modifies the above DVD slightly. If you can’t find that issue, write me at With the book read, and hopefully so, and the DVD watched, and that issue learned, get a friend to sit down and you run some Dianetics on them. Turn it around and have the friend (or get somebody else who can do it) run some on you.

    You’ll discover yourself the journey. That’s the only way this thing works dude. Rhetorical schmetorical. Self discovery with the techniques opening up terra incognita- the human mind, that vast and hitherto unknown realm a half inch back of your forehead.

    May you never be the same.

  269. Why I’ll…huff and I’ll puff and I’ll…

    …ooh, sorry…exploded your head.

  270. Personally, I’m going to have pizzas delivered to DM that he never ordered.

    From Italy.


  271. Splog, I think you are right on the mark. Your post is one of the most thoughtful and insightful I’ve read here.

  272. Marty,
    I totally see what you mean, especially when Broeker turns towards the audience! You look up “venomous” as a word and see this picture! Odd that I hadn’t particularly noticed it before.

    Thanks for the lead, LI.

  273. OTDT,
    It’s hard to express the look I’m giving over this thing, with these little black scratchie things. Put it this way -ptoooie, right along with ya.

    I’d like to buy the beer at the Taqueria, if you gentlemen would allow me.

  274. Good post. When I finished OT VII I was pumped. When I finished OT VIII I felt deflated. I could not wait to get off the Ship. The atmosphere on the Ship is 1.1 and destructive towards OTs. It was a very disappointing experience. I was not over the moon about OT VIII.
    Although I am doing well, I look forward to a visit to Casablanca and plan to arrange this with Marty.

  275. Scott Campbell

    Took me a fair piece to get where I am now. I used to have the personality of a dial tone, the sex appeal of a door mat and the intellectual capacity of a bowling ball.

    And look at me now…

  276. Tony DePhillips


  277. Scott Campbell


    You know what I respect about you? You’re COMPETENT. That is what I respect about you. I love your plain spoken originations and your pugnacious style.

    Your a man that can survive – and survive well – honestly and ethically. Many would be well served to look to you for an example of an OT who is COMPETENT.


  278. Marty’s post for the day must be a “hot” topic as another E mail Spam campaign from OSAbot just arrived.

  279. Mother of Grendel

    Wow… a few days before finishing his NOTs, my (now ex-) husband went totally nuts on me! He was totally worked up – furious, in fact – and told me that if I didn’t have sex with him that it would be my fault that he didn’t get in to session on his NOTs the next day. It was basically a rape. I could never think with that behavior, and I never understood it until now. Amazing.

  280. I beg to disagree, Marty. I think OT abilities would work fine for showing off. There’s no generalized “jinx” or curse that says we’ll lose our abilities if we show off. Ingo Swann did it, but he may have had a counter postulate on it himself.

    Truth is, when you are OT and know it, you don’t feel any need to show off, just as you mentioned about using your OT abilities every day but not with the idea of showing off.

  281. From what I have heard, the original OT 5-7 were moved up to 9 and 10 when Nots was expanded to create New 5-7. I would say that whatever is on those upper levels is real, and it scares the shit out of DM to think of anyone everr reaching that.

  282. George White

    To those interested in information about an OTVIII from the 2nd voyage:
    After reading this blog, I feel an obligation to share some information.
    My name is George White and I joined Scientology in 1973 in New York City.
    I completed OTVIII in the very early days and I was on the 2nd voyage.
    After OTVIII, I decided to start a family and so we went to Massachusetts from Florida where the job market was more robust. Being too busy with a new wife, work, and two new babies, and with no further OT levels available, I decided to return to what I do best which is research.
    When we returned to Florida in 1995, I went over to Flag and they had
    me read a 38 page document which was written by COB DM which listed
    outpoints in OTVIII auditing. Having read and listened to a lot of LRH, I could not help but notice the uncharacteristic repetitive rambling and circumlocution in the 38 pages. Also, since my background was in research, I could easily
    see that the author was inexperienced in logic and in basic validation techniques. Working with an extremely small sample of observations, he reached a conclusion which was in reality nothing more than a thin guess.
    In truth, I knew more about the subject since I had been on it for a about
    a year or more. I decided to continue to read LRH but I could clearly see that the 38 page document led nowhere.
    To make a long story short, I had been introduced to Buddhism in 1964 while attending college. After traveling to Thailand in 1970, I practiced
    Buddhism up until just before entering Scientology in 1973.
    It was a no-brainer to return to Buddhism after reading the 38 page document in 1996. I sought refuge in the Buddha in 2001. At present,
    I am doing what I like to do which is researching the massive Pali Canon which is the foundation of the elder school. I am a supporting member of the Pali Text Society which preserves the most basic texts in English translation.
    Also, I did loose a friend to cancer who completed OTVIII just before me.
    I am very fortunate in that I managed to stay clear of the turbulent times
    after 1996. As you are probably aware, the turbulence in the 1974-1986
    period was intense as well, but I managed to side-step most of it because I
    was just simply public and no more.
    Anyway, all is well. Thank you for you attention.

  283. Marty,
    I’d feel safe enough breaking a tortilla or two with ya. Those free one’s taste so much better, too.

  284. Jim,
    Hmmmm…OK, now you’re enticing the pot, what with the free beer and all.

  285. OTDT, Ray never told me he knew how to compile the level. He just told me that VIII, IX and X were all of a piece. Of course my (unvoiced) reaction was “Well, why the fuck did you release only VIII, then?” I never realized that all that existed were LRH’s folders with his IX and X auditing in them and that Ray did not know how to put IX and X together. Marty clarified that earlier. Ray is an incredibly bright, decent person. But squashed nearly out of existence, like any other capable person around DM. (There are some other incredibly capable people locked up at Int who probably no one knows about. Rick Cruzen and Barry Stein are two who come to mind immediately.)

    Even LRH knew that the real freedom attainable in Scientology also included freedom from the need of Scientology and auditing at some point. He really wanted people to be free. From these stories of what has happened to VIIs and VIIIs, DM has it precisely 180 degrees reversed. Of course there are those who don’t fit that mold such as Geir Isene who is anything but suppressed.

  286. Scott Campbell

    Thanks man. Now I have a better idea where your coming from.

    L, Scott

  287. There are many ways to skin a cat, Splog. I don’t deny any of what you say. All very valid and very OT in terms of creating the desired effects. But it’s also fun not to agree with the MEST universe and create effects in spite of it. Remember, it’s a Game we’re playing, so get creative. Personally, I think parlor tricks can be pretty damned cool (though I’ve never thought of making teapots fly …)

  288. UFing UNbelievable that anyone should have to go through that, Scott.

    One of my newfound goals was formulated when I saw the picture of a widow of the recent airport bombing in Moscow; her small boy looking at her while he cried from the shock of having just lost his father. At that point I thought, “I want a planet where no child has to cry due to someone else’s violence.” That includes what you went through.

  289. Jim,

    I wasn’t the one who said that OTs would “be at cause over MEST”.

    And here’s the rub: I honestly believe that there is far more to the Universe than Science allows. I believe in PSI abilities-they have been shown to exist in Science (albeit in a very subtle and very weak fashion). I’m not a nay sayer. I genuinely *Want* to see what LRH promised.

    So again, let’s look at the situation:
    1) DM is an SP
    2) Ethics dictate that one must do the most good for the most number of dynamics
    3) If Scientology serves the 8th dynamic, then the ethical thing to do is to expand Scientology
    4) If DM is the most suppressive person on the planet, then the ethical thing to do whatever is in your power to stop him
    5) If you aren’t going to use OT abilities to stop the world’s biggest SP, then you are not doing everything in your power to stop him.

    DM’s actions already tell me that he, nor anyone associated with him, have any of the OT abilities that LRH touted. No perceptics, no cause over MEST. The best he can bring is hiring goons to follow Marty and Mike around. That’s it, and it’s pathetic for a guy who promises so much and charges a fortune for it.

    I’m just waiting for the “REAL OTs” that Marty is touting that he can produce to show up to the game. If DM isn’t worth using your OT abilities on, then what is?

  290. Tony

    Yup. Theta-MEST theory in action. We will all be stronger because we have already withdrawn from the entheta and enmest of David Miscaviges corporation. We are already back for a new assault. We are making gains personally and across the Dynamics. Scientology Inc. couldn’t “handle” us before , and they will certainly not “handle” us now.
    The die is cast.


  291. I’ll take that as proof, OTDT. 😉

    But in all seriousness, if you have anything close to that sort of power, then why haven’t you directed it against DM?

  292. Totally agree with you, Scott.

    More than a few spirits here that are *not* living, too. 😉

  293. I believe what you wrote completely. I know things which have are known to few, and resulted in this assessment: The Bridge is now a “theta trap” created that way purposely. The real OT levels do exist (I know for fact) and are being kept purposely for only a few persons (the power and abilities gained are such they are purposely denied others as it would make them powerful enough to then see what is really going on and put in ethics on those doing all of this). The cases are being knowingly overrun. The Bridge is now a reg. machine only for those few who have intentions (like in HOM) to enslave the remaining race with the abilities they have with the real OT levels (they missed their FPRD bigtime and are actually suppressives with OT abilities which is contrary enough but it is true).

  294. Mr Fancy

    You don’t think that OTs are “stalking and harassing” DM?

    Oh yes, besides his own fixed dramatization of a suppressive, in present time, I’m pretty sure that he is also being actively pursued both physically and spiritually. For proof of that one need look no further than what you read on his blog. He can neither effectively run nor hide, and his universe is inexorably collapsing around him.
    Time is not his friend. Tick tock, tick tock.


  295. OTDT, I love your shtick on this blog. Really enjoy your posts. One bit if info I want to mention here is that LRH had people writing bulletins for him and doing research for him from Day One. Look through an original set of Tech Vols and you will see HCOB after HCOB written by others, written for LRH, approved by LRH, etc. This was going on from 1950 until the end. LRH never considered himself an only one and was only too happy for others to pitch in.
    I don’t know that OT VIII issue you are talking about but from what you say about it, I suspect that it was a compilation from various LRH dispatch and folder notes about the level, possibly badly compiled by Ray. Not trying to stand up for Ray here, just to clarify that LRH never felt he had a monopoly on writing issues.
    LRH seemed awful easy about a lot of things in life. At WHQ, we were all beaten to within an inch of our lives on the subject of security to the point that you could not go outdoors on the base and use a Scn term and had to carry pc folders in brown paper bags. LRH, on the other hand, would be at the mall in nearby Indio expounding for all to hear about the Int Stats to his messengers while Port Captain Fred Rock was shitting his pants. One day while shooting one of the early tech films in downtown Palm Springs, LRH was out there with a bullhorn product officering people and someone asked if he was Colonel Sanders.

  296. I think kids who have a praent already out are lucky–when they find out the truth, they will know where to go.

  297. I have to agree with JLo, too, Tony. Zero chance a celeb like Will Smith will be exposed to the dark side and, as an uptone guy, he’ll have many wins, which is great. But the day will come when he’ll have to confront what’s actually there.

  298. Good god man. This brings me to tears. Betrayal and some other sensations I am not terribly familiar with but the smell of torches and things burning seems remedial.

    And then I chuckled. I have become addicted to your displays of art you share with us on Marty’s blog. With that in mind, I read here where you were hiding. Playing dumb. Say it ain’t so? If laughter is a form of rejection, well, that idea of you hiding and or playing dumb, I rejected it.

    Then a few more tears as the implications fully hit.
    I sure am glad you made it here. ( I am still sticking by my opinion that you are unnatural.)

    Bruce Pratt

  299. parent…

  300. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    He’s more like a remora…. just hanging on to suck the life out.

  301. WH, it suits Misscabbage to blame the person who leaves for having O/Ws. People leave, too, because of ARCXs. Or because they’ve EP’ed on the Game.

  302. Tony DePhillips

    You are a cool guy man. You have such skills painting vivid pictures and in this case better than any Edgar Allen Poe I have read.
    Thanks for that.
    Please, don’t give up the idea of getting a session sometime. Think of a nice babbling brook and a soft breeze brushing across the trees. It can be good again. You’re obviously not broken, you can really operate. But you might like cracking open that vault for a few mintues and see what flys out.

  303. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Don’t forget to have the delivery person ask for a big tip!

  304. When a fox gets into a chicken run it’ll kill every single chicken just for the njoy of killing.

  305. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    LRH’s Tech are the water wings of life. 🙂 — It’ll keep you afloat but you still have to paddle to make it. 😉

  306. Typo alert….

    Meant to say… “For proof of that one need look no further than what you read on THIS blog.”


  307. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Thank you, Scott. It’s good to know good beings do exist!

  308. OTDT, damm brillant. I look forward to meeting you.

  309. Great write-up, JB. I know nothing more about you than what you’ve written, but I have to correct something. Your goodness was not awful; it’s what got you through the other side.

  310. one of those who see

    “So anyway, Scientology is well named. It is the road to truth. It is a study of the truth. And total truth is total power. And when the guy hasn’t got any lies left in him he’s OT. And all the mechanics of OT work out too. So, the subject is very, very well named.” -Wow, Marty thanks for posting this quote by LRH. Simple, Life Changing.

    Thank you for your willingness to confront this scene, shine the light and let us all in on the truth.

  311. Fargo-chipper?

    From one of my favorite movies:

  312. Scott Campbell

    Should add, that “between lives” DM knows not wot of.

  313. Now this is a raw nerve, Sam. The Ol’ Man made Clears by the bucketload for years and yet, when they return, MissCabbage does everything he can to invalidate the State. “Please Attest to Not Clear”. So we have all these BPCed, ARCxen PCs who become so confused and lost and overwhelmed that they’ll accept Implants.

  314. Sinar, I have actually been using the memorial as a tool when talking to people who are not quite so sure who is telling the truth about the current scene in the church. I tell them to watch the video and tell me what you think. It is effective and they don’t have to go to an “entheta” website.
    Spot-on Marty. The film is loaded with such.

  315. I think Ray’s a very decent being but something dark happened to him and, yeah, he has yet to grow a pair. Frankly, who at Int has given they willingly eat shit sandwiches served by a midget?

  316. The clever mechanism used to justify not releasing levels beyond VIII is that there can’t be too many beings going too far up the Bridge without pulling up others behind them. I always thought this to be a complete arbitrary. And now I know why: it’s designed so that only MissCabbage decides when.

    I have no reason to doubt Marty when he says there’s nothing above VIII. MissCabbage and PB were not Tech terminals. The only hope of pulling something together lay with Mayo, but because he knew too much and was a potential rival for COB, DM had him branded as an SP and got rid of him.

    JLo’s on the right path, though, and that is read the materials. There’s so much case gain to be gotten from the materials.

  317. Hey Laura,
    That quote was my stable datum that gave me enough piece of mind and sanity to route out of the S.O. after having been in 30 years.
    It’s powerful.

  318. OTDT – that got to me dude. I felt it. You laid it all out so we could duplicate the implant.

    All I can say is that maybe LRH did have it compiled and that the little fucker alter-ised the crap out of it. To me that is more real. He and Mitts probably lied their trusted asses off to LRH saying that they had it under control and then let DM screw with it to his fancy. To me, that is most likely the story.

    By all means, get your money back for that shit (I paid $800 for OT 8 in 1975 before the first price increase).

    If you get out to AZ call me and I’ll buy you a bunch of beers!

    ML Tom

  319. OTDT,
    I started reading your post and couldn’t stop. It evoked tears and rage.
    And you definitely deserve the Sudden Award — or we start the Sudden Hall of Fame.
    Hope to see you at our Independence Day celebration.

  320. What a fuckin’ story, OTDT. Truth Revealed, indeed …

  321. Yes.
    From Argentina.

  322. Hi Jim! Thank you for the kind response…
    I’ve read DMSMH… and have recently read evolution of a science and the original thesis. I will check out the DVD. Putting something into practice or watching something put into practice is a tad more easy for me to grasp. Difference between reading about a process and running it, I spose… but in my attempts to understand something, I definitely try to understand something from the inside out, not the outside in.
    And I’m more lady shaped than dude shaped, but if you were simply slinging slang, that’s fine too. 🙂

  323. Chilling, and evocative as ever. 😦
    I literally shuddered while reading this post.
    I fear your pen, OTDT… you can do some major damage with that. Love your razor sharp wit, but with this post I’m seeing the same blade can bite hard into the soul if directed so. Powerful stuff.
    Cheers, mate…

  324. Glad you posted this. You forgot the link to that thread, which contains more information from Michel.
    For example, in reply to another he posts:
    “I was Solo Nots D of P Europe, that’s why i am listing only the european guys i knew. Unfortunately, there were also US guys with cancer. For a real figure you could apply the 23% to the Purple tags and Black tags. The number of death should be pretty close.
    As you said, at the top of the bridge one should be at least healthy…physically, economically and most of all spiritually.
    I’t’s absolutly NOT the case”
    Unfortunately, OSA caught wind of what he was posting and put alot of pressure on him to shut up. Because he’s got a business to run, he’s on an extended break right now but I do hope he comes back to tell more.

    As well, the subject is covered here in this recent article:
    Blood on their hands: 30% of OTs have cancer and Tommy Davis is covering it up?

  325. Karen, you might want to google “Larry Brennan affidavit”. He has a pretty extensive write-up about the corporate (puppet) structure of the CoS. It actually has a sound corporate structure-not that they actually use the checks and balances written into it.

    DM has all the officers sign an undated resignation when they come on post, and then he runs the whole show as a dictatorship. If anyone crosses him, they get “resigned” (and probably “re-assigned” to the RPF!)

  326. Wow, OTDT, I’ve been waiting for you to tell it like it is. It was worth the wait.

  327. Hey Terril, I know you’ve taken a lot of hits for the FZ but you keep on truckin.’ As far as the differences between areas of the FZ is concerned, guess what, we are now in an open market, no CofS to tell us we can’t look at what everyone has to offer and evaluate it for ourselves. I know ESMB sometimes dramatizes the CofS attitude even if in reverse, and I hope this blog will not begin to dramatize that “we’re the only game in town” attitude.

  328. Not that I don’t think you’re sometimes wacko, Terril, but I mean that in an affectionate way. LOL

  329. Maybe not quite that simple. I definitely remember the things I want to, but not all in a flash of knowingness–I have to work at it. What I envision as “freedom from whole track amnesia” is to KNOW all of it all at once.

  330. OMG! When OT VIII was released a joke went around: Imagine a Friday evening graduation, outside. The first public OT VIII is being celebrated. Clouds are bunching up. thunder is rumbling, a lightning, a hand comes down through the clouds and holds an envelope. The OT VIII opens it. It reads “CONGRATULATIONS!
    It’s horrible to actually see this joke materialized.

    BTW, I looked at my 2007 Advanced Procedure and Axioms, THE FIRST ACT (p.26): that paragraph is there in full, same as compared to the 1972 edition (p.15).
    There IS at least one technical alteration re AP&A RE ‘THE EMOTIONAL CURVE’ 2007 (p.113): “The emotional curve is that drop or rise on the tone scale ATTEND TO failure to control on any dynamic or to the RECIPIENT of an ally on any dynamic” versus 1972 (p.50): ” The emotional curve is that drop or rise on the tone scale CAUSED BY failure to control on any dynamic or the RECEIPT of an ally on any dynamic. The 1972 wording is a lot clearer.

  331. Dear OTDT,
    I am sitting here with no oxygen, from holding my breath, not just while reading your story but for a few minutes afterward trying to let it sink in.

    OOOSH! There I got my breath again. I am still stunned.

  332. OTDT,
    I remember when I was in the church’s grasp I used to feel so inferior that I could not afford to zoom up to OTVIII. Now, after reading this thread, and your post, I am feeling thankful that I was not wealthy enough to do the OT levels in the church. Funny how things work that way. Thank you for your bold expressions and your comments on what you went through. I hope you can get down to NOTS Landing sometime soon.


  333. Splog — you asked for it, you got it, Toyota.

    It was a little long for Marty’s blog, so I posted it as an article. You are right on target. This one is for you.

  334. Excal is OUT TECH mocked up by the madman CBR to solve his own failed case.

  335. TP, you are promoting the madman CBR and haven’t subjective reality on the madness and out tech.
    Try to read Pierre Ethiers eval of excal.

  336. At some point in time, somewhere, somehow DM will find HIS master. The flow will reverse with no mercy.

  337. I think both things are true: real OT abilities exist and one can be very OT in his environment while using a body.

    In explaining the capabilities of a thetan to people I used to use an analogy of a person operating a big earthmover. It went like this:

    Take a big earthmover. On its own it will just sit there and do nothing. Now put a person at the controls. The earthmover can now be made to do things and will do as good a job as the person operating it has been trained to do.

    At the end of a day the person leaves the earthmover and it again does nothing. The person, though, is free to experience whatever he might want to experience.

    Next, take that person operating the earthmover and convince him that he must remain at all times in the earthmover. Convince him well enough and he will begin believing he is an earthmover and that only the earthmover has the power to get things done. He may still do a tremendous job as an earthmover operator but he has forgotten that he could also do things outside the earthmover.

    Either way, operating inside or outside the earthmover, his effectiveness in doing what he’s doing is dictated by how well he understands the environment in which he is trying to operate.

    Give some freedom to the guy who’s been stuck in that earthmover for a very, very long time and he might have a real tough time finding his legs. He may be so weakened that he requires considerable rehabilitation. He may be very reluctant to leave. Even so, I’m sure that just about all of us who aren’t in that earthmover would encourage him to come out and explore this external universe, and would be quite sure that he could be rehabilitated.

    As far as what it takes to handle a body/machine, some might argue that one only has to postulate that one knows how to handle it in order to handle it. That may be true way up the OT levels, but down around where we’re operating as body + thetan, the most effective use of the “machine” requires an understanding both of the machine and the physical universe rules that have been used to build the machine: postulating that you can make your body fly and then jumping off a cliff just doesn’t work for the average thetan in the average human body.

    Waves, on the other hand, are close enough to theta that they can be postulated by a reasonably aware thetan and they can be postulated at a point in space. A wave tuned to match the receiver and placed at a point in space occupied by the receiver will be received. As an auditor, I developed that skill primarily through training. I am sure that processing up the OT levels will enhance it, but the fact is that it is a learnable and demonstrable ability at lower levels. It is also an ability that is beyond the norm for humans so would fit the criterion for an OT ability, even if exterioization-with-perception isn’t necessary to accomplish it.

  338. plainoldthetan

    “Which leads to my wog-flavored questions… what is a DMology OTVIII supposed to do after completing OTVIII?”

    Apparently, an OT 8 completion returns yearly to the ship to do “setups” and “preps” for OT 9 and 10, when he’s not redoing his Purification Rundown, Basics, Congresses, ACCs, Objectives, NED, OT 3 and OT 7.

  339. I am calling up all Scientologists for collective OT action regarding the desaster in Japan:
    Reference: Phoenix lectures, the four states of existence applicable here :
    Make up duplicates in your universe of the reactore core in japan. To get an idea what to mock up look at the core looks like and works.
    You must not read the whole article, just look at the photos.
    The reference of the processes can be found in the
    1) Western Congress
    2) Universum Congress (Group processing sessions)
    It could be a little bit exhausting if you do it for a long time but just do it.
    make up duplicates.

    Please don´t discuss it, just do it.
    ARC SW

  340. dm´s game:

  341. TroubleShooter

    I gotta throw in my .02 worth here…Mr. Fancy, I completely understand your questions. IMHO doing the OT levels is something that results in change that eliminates the interesting aspect that these antics we’ve all heard about and associated OT levels with at some point in our Bridge progress. I’ve yet to meet someone whose DONE these OT levels who has any interest in telekinesis for example as we’ve seen it in the movies or proving their OTs now by performing such things. I mean no disrespect when I say that such a display to me would be childish, self-indulgent and pointless in the overall scheme of things. I acknowledge the allure of it exists.

    If you’ve ever audited a pc on a meter and seen the needle and tone arm phenomena while observing the pc – you know for SURE that something is happening and change is occurring in the pc and they are benefiting from that change. In doing the solo auditing that’s done on the way up to VII there is similarly NO mistaking that changes that are happening. Then of course there’s the reflection of those changes in life – how one feels about oneself and others, how one responds to and causes things in life differently than before, with freedom to perceive as one didn’t before – these are real and tangible and visible to others to experience too.

    It’s something you have to DO in order to have the viewpoint of. If you don’t you will never know and you will continue to have your questions. The only way to get those questions fully and completely answered for yourself son, is to do them and I for one hope you do. The experience for me was an exploration into possibilities driven by the certainty of what I saw happening on the e-meter. I’ve moved things all right – I’ve moved masses in my case that for me represented significances that I was deliberately directing my attention to due to the process being run. I saw the meter reflect the mass blowing and sensed the relief and/or new viewpoint as a result and saw this new ability reflected accurately in the faces of others around for years since. That’s proof that matters for me, that’s why I pursued the Bridge. Being interested and not interesting. InterestED is motion, production, positive change and absorbing knowledge and loving people, extroversion and very expressive of the joy of living for me while InterestING is a stuck flow, a deadness, an inability to see beyond ones own nose, uncaring, selfish and trapped.

    Being able to assume others viewpoints – BE another person – accept yourself for who you are and create yourself upward from where you find yourself – be fully self-determined and KNOW it as opposed to trying to be that way – fighting to be that way or asserting that you are that way – there’s a big difference in these things and freedom to get there is on the OT levels. Which brings us directly back to the point of Marty’s post and to what level of undermining evil cob has attempted to get away with. Notice I said ATTEMPTED. The existence of this blog is evidence today that he hasn’t gotten away with it.

    The stars are there and you can be among them but you have to decide to want it for yourself. Do you? Your help is needed and welcome. It takes near no time at all to be on the other side of these discoveries for yourself.

  342. The Dear Leaders new bright idea (based on Lecture “Games conditions vs. no games conditions):
    At the end of every session the auditor should run:
    “Look around here and tell me what our Dear Leader can have”
    Run to 3 swing F/N and BI´s.

  343. TroubleShooter

    Windhorse, I’m sure I’m not alone when I say I HOPE YOU GO AND NOT JUST TO VISIT!!!!! Pick up the cans and experience a real FN on something you haven’t FNed on in a LONGGGG time and then on things you didn’t know could FN! Do let us know if/when that’s happened. 😉

  344. TroubleShooter


  345. Eileen Clark


  346. martyrathbun09

    It is explained rather rationally in the PDC, start trying to impress in the physical universe and you might as well get down on your knees and beg the physical universe for approval – and voilia, welcome back to the physical universe. Been my reality – and have had quite a consistent run on telepathic comm, and effortless postulate attainment since recognizing this. But, to each his or her own.

  347. martyrathbun09

    One of my favorites of the hundreds of comments on this post.

  348. Probably the best post ever on this blog!
    The corruption of the “Tech Hierarchy” laid bare and raw.
    I’m actually more upset with the Walkers and Mithoffs, and all the others on down the line, than I am with DM at this point. DM, I know he’s a soul-less rock.
    The so-called “senior tech terminals” wearing their fake-navy brass, what a bunch of losers. Forever disgraced.
    They had their chance to stand up and defend the Legacy…and they failed.

  349. Laura, thanks for telling us this, as it makes what happens on the Freewinds very real. “I never felt cared for at all except in the regular Div4 courseroom. When I left there, I was still winning to an extent but, I was also in the tone level of terror.” OH MY GOD! The top of the Bridge, OT 8, and you are coming home and you are in a tone level of TERROR? That says it all!
    So glad you’re “back to battery and more”! Glad there is a Casablanca to salvage the damage that has been done. Thank you Marty and Mosey for that!
    ML. LM
    ML, CVA

  350. scilonschools

    Thank you Sinar, Alot to digest but it helps the evolving picture of abuse of trust , body and soul.

  351. TroubleShooter


    You asked a good question. Without a case study to see what was and wasn’t done and re-done or what their training levels were to mention two of many variables. But there are variables at work on top of the differences we have as individuals.

  352. M F,
    Ahhhh, nope. Not the trick I was asking for. Here’s a clue: If you are looking to be cause over something, best to know what it actually is.

  353. Expelled 4 Life

    I’ll give it a go here: A spiritual being can as-is. LRH created a controlled environment, called a session, to allow as-isness in a predictable manner. Whether a spiritual being can move an object is immaterial. (pardon the pun). That a person can move on from a severe loss or relief himself of transgressions is magic.

  354. Friend of Ron

    Good morning,

    This from LRH. It does relate as it does give EPs states of being to reach as we progress. And it gives a good comparative to what IS (as detailed here — cancer, accidents, dying , cracked minds) to what SHOULD AND WILL BE if tech is applied standardly.

    Excerpted from the lecture Processes for Rough Cases delivered on 3 October 1953.

    “The way to take the First Dynamic apart and handle the First Dynamic utterly is to be the First Dynamic completely and utterly and then all of a sudden you no longer have to be the First Dynamic. And it’s that way with each dynamic in turn.

    “And if you were to draw a map of the way to go all the way up to Operating Thetan, it would be this way. …

    “And he goes up through One. He’s got to become everything there is to be about One—as far as a body is concerned, Homo sapiens is concerned—he goes through One.

    “And when he gets through One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, yes sir, about that time he could sure set up shop as God.”

    — L. Ron Hubbard

    In the REAL Scientology movemement people end up BEING THE EIGHT DYNAMIC. In Miscavology people end up dying from cancer and going to HEAVEN, maybe.

    Could it be that what dm eventually sells as the EP of OT 9 will be: Going to HEAVEN? Reminds me of the church I left, when I was 15 years old.

    PSYCHS and PRIESTS — same ilk, same product. Just like LRH said.

    All the best,

    You have made me realize that I was still non-confronting the TOTAL EVIL OF THIS BASTARD. Somehow, I was still not fully confronting that he is using the tech to enslave people, and to feed his never ending unsatiable avarice for POWER AND MONEY. THAT HE COMPLETELY KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. I was still operating on the idea that he was money and power hungry, but had MU’s on the Tech, and didn’t really know what he was doing, making MISTAKES. But you are right, THIS IS BEYOND MISTAKES. This is 100% USING THE TECHNOLOGY TO CAVE PEOPLE IN. In LRH’s Policy Letter “COMPLEXITY AND CONFRONTING” he says: The basic thing man can’t or wont confront is EVIL.”
    In C/S (Case Supervisor) Series 22, PSYCHOSIS, LRH states: “Under apparent social behavior the continual crimes knowingly committed by the insane are much more vicious than has ever been cataloged in psychiatric texts. The actions of the insane are not “unconscious.” THEY ARE COMPLETELY AWARE OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING.” (Capitalized emphasis of last sentence mine.)
    “All insane actions are entirely justified and seem wholly rational to them. As they have no reality on the harmful and irrational nature of their conduct it does not often register on an E-meter.
    The product of their post duties is destructive but is excused as ignorance or errors.”–LRH
    To some degree, even to this day, I was still excusing the “the product” (Wow, what a PRODUCT) of his (David Miscavige) post duties as ignorance or errors. Thank you Michael, for getting me to see the light. You have disabused me of the idea that it is ignorance, errors, or mistakes.
    I completely see that the definition of insanity that LRH gives later in this same Technical Bulletin applies:
    “Possibly the only frightening thing about it is the cleverness with which it can be hidden”.
    Catherine E. Von Ach
    Mother of Chase Hunter Von Ach

  356. Mrs. Friend of Ron

    Those priests always were a little scary.

  357. Hy,
    Thank you 🙂

  358. martyrathbun09

    Funny how when I express an opinion (particularly concerning a regimine that parallels that which this blog seeks to free people from – arcane, carrot hidden teachings) it is characterized as a dramatization. Oh well.

  359. Mr. Fancy~I’d suggest that DM is using his OT abilities (whatever they may be and however he got them) in a negative way…hence the current scene.

  360. Exactly right!

  361. Dan (and anyone else wanting to find that post), you may know this already, but if not I trust it helps.

    The search terms to plug into google to find marty’s post about michael phillips is:

    michael phillips

  362. Well KTT, welcome to the fray.

    Speak up with your facts and data. Please don’t be taking all that hidden from most data to the grave, now, you hear? This here subject just don’t really need another mystery sandwich.

    Bruce Pratt

  363. Friend of Ron

    Please email me at I have a doc that I’d like to show you.

  364. The outpoint, George, is that VIIIs head for the exit when they finish the level. Between that mass exodus and the way our little Torquemada has eliminated the CLXIIs, what we have is a cleverly executed coup d’etat.

  365. George, thanks for your story. It’s the specifics in everyone’s stories, like yours, that I find so helpful.

  366. Tony DePhillips

    Stop Scott, you’re making me blush.

  367. Isn’t that true for this life? I don’t remember what I had for breakfast thirty five years ago. Is that amnesia on the current track? Who came up with the “remember” trick anyway? Is it natural to a thetan? Or is it a system we developed to solve a problem? Who can remember right?

    The point is amnesia means: A loss or lack of memory.

    If you had a loss of family or lack of family according to your desires wouldn’t the issue at hand be family?

    And if you have been able to look at the past through auditing, the whole of it, as needed, are you really handicapped?

  368. Lastly, you have to know if you are forgetting, or remembering to forget.

    If you are remembering to forget you really don’t have an issue with memory.

  369. Floating Needle


  370. Spot on !!!

  371. Great story, Joe. LRH with a bullhorn in downtown Palm Springs?? Unbelievable!

    Keep them coming & I hope they wind up in a book someday!

  372. Make up and be friends ?

  373. “promoting gurus” ermmm….

  374. Jesus, what a dramatization, Mother of Grendel! I had some spin-outs – quite serious ones – but I’m a robust kind of thetan and handled with standard tech applied standardly.

    I think it’s important to note this: auditing NOTs is fantastic stuff. Literally, mind-blowing. MissCabbage can sabotage, as he’s done, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that NOTs is the most amazing experience any of us have had for a very, very, very, very long time. It’s not the NOTs that’s at fault, it’s the squirrelling of NOTs.

  375. Yes, Marty, make up and be friends. Even friends have their testy moments but they survive it. ARC, Lynne

  376. CBR=Captain Bill Robertson, the guy who formulated excalibur, as I recall.

  377. I get your point about breakfast thirty-five years ago. If I remember what I was doing sometime in a past life, I guess I would say I had that whole span from then until now under some control.

  378. martyrathbun09

    I love ya Lynne.

  379. And end the game?

  380. Just not OT enough.

    I could only discuss it intelligently with you after you’d read all basic and advanced SCN books and listened to a few hundred advanced lectures and went thru some of the advanced processes and thought a lot about it for at least a few years.

    Or possibly if you were an advanced Kabahllic scholar.

    It’s a complex labyrinth we are addressing, sort of like playing four dimensional holographic chess blind-folded from this universe across other-dimensional time to another unknown universe, while on acid, with a lot of pranksters trying to trick you while you’re reading the instruction manual.

    Other than that, the answer to your question is the question itself.

  381. plainoldthetan

    Apparently you’re not the only one. The ship now has an entire section of personnel dedicated to recovery, repair, and rehabilitation of “failed VIIIs”.

  382. I love you too Marty. Feels good too.

  383. He just lived in another reality, what was true for him was true for him ;). I think as a matter of fact he observed things nobody else had and created thus his own reality.

    Isn’t creating new and different realities part of the Game ?


  384. What’s weird is, the only people looking at the “dead agenting” Scio sites are people who have seen something on the sites exposing Scientology. There should be a header at the top of the Scio sites that says, “It is too late. You looked. You are now ineligible for further levels in the TRUE church.” LOL

  385. As if Pierre Ethier were somehow an authoritative Source ?
    Michael A. Hobson

  386. Thanks, Steve, that’s a beautiful article. And you have no idea what effect you have created. OK, scratch that, you probably have a very good idea – it not all that unusual.

    So what the heck, I’ll tell the story anyway 🙂

    Three times this evening I’ve had to hold back the tears. I came home from work and saw your post and it struck a chord. You see, it’s been nearly 10 years since I last had someone around in real life with a similar reality to mine. I have a great family and friends, but there’s this one favourite subject that they are just not into. So we leave it alone. That’s cool, they aren’t into Quantum Mechanics either so we also don’t talk about that.

    It gets kinda lonely, y’now? Blogs are great, this community is awesome, but being in the same space for a while would be just fantastic. I think I’m going to ack a purpose that is there but I wouldn’t let myself look at – show up on July 4. I haven’t a clue how I’ll do it. Doesn’t matter. Something will turn up. Maybe a Tech conference in Louisiana that work desperately wants me to attend. Or something. That’s just how these things work – decide, it happens, and not by magic. And I’m even, wait for it, I’m even willing to hold the cans now. THAT hasn’t been true for years.

  387. Jim, this is a great post. One other contributing factor is the fact that a person being audited who is also connected to an live SP person or group who is actively invalidating them will lose their gains. Anyone getting audited in the Church is “connected to an SP person or group” and by definition is going to get better and then get worse. This adds to what you have so eloquently explained in that it’s another layer of technical sabotage.

  388. Lynne

    “Not that I don’t think you’re sometimes wacko, Terril, but I mean that in an affectionate way. LOL”

    I’m at a disadvantage. You know me I don’t know you.

    Would love to hear from you backchannel if you wish. 🙂

  389. TroubleShooter

    You might also respect the subject of OT and realize that not all of us are ok with your use of words that are MUs and which per LRH is confidential.

  390. Tony,
    I don’t know how you got that image, but a babbling brook in the forest, with a breeze through the trees has always been at the top of the chart of my most peaceful experiences.

    Thanks for reminding me about that.

  391. George,
    Thank you for your addition to this subject. You traveled the bridge to increased ability, did manage to not get entrapped into the mess, and still continue to create your stable datums. You are what OT is about. To be more of yourself and increased capabilities to play the game of life. I hope to see your continued input to the blog. All honest beings are invited here. I welcome you (not that I am the welcoming committee but this is me speaking here – not a group agreement.

  392. Tory Christman

    Thank you for posting this. God—having lived with my now x-husband, an OT 8 who was ***totally*** FUCKED UP…and ALL the OT 8’s I knew are either that, or Dead….this helps.

    OT 7 for 7 years wasn’t that much better, but at least I KNEW It was fucked up, refused to really pretend to dance in the dirty water, and kept plodding along, flying Ruds each session, doing correction lists, and reading “Self-Improvement” books, TRYING to sort out WTF was going on.

    Finally, with a COMPLETELY Squirrel “C/S” of “See if you can walk down the street and NOT think about your case” (sort of like: Don’t think about an elephant)…I got to the second drive way, threw my hands above my head, said:
    “THAT IS **IT**!
    I AM DONE____________For this lifetime, and life time after lifetime
    after lifetime”. I think any of you trained people can understand why, maybe. Well, you could IF you heard my whole story.

    Anyways—I’m very happy you wrote this, I hope EVERYONE who can, gets this to people “on the Bridge”, in C of $. ALL the time I talk to people saying, “I know, Tory, I’ve watched your videos (and others). But I’m afraid to upset them”.

    CERTAINLY ALL THEIR $$$$ to this BS. Please, Please do what you
    wish someone would have done to you, IF they knew…kindly.

    Thank you.


  393. Nice post, TS. 🙂

  394. >>The clever mechanism used to justify not releasing levels beyond VIII is that there can’t be too many beings going too far up the Bridge without pulling up others behind them.<<

    Thanks!!!!! Exactly what I was looking for.

  395. Thank you!!!!!

    And, dear, dear, dear on all those redo’s. :-/

  396. Hey George,
    Buddism is very cool. Glad all is well with you.

  397. I agree with you, Tory. We must start saying something to those who are willing to listen to even a little bit. I’m afraid some people are beyond reach.

    A friend (who’s on the fence) said, “But I’m worried about my eternity.” I told him, “This ‘eternity’ phrase is what the ‘churchies’ use to enslave people. It’s right out of an implant. Don’t fall for it. Your eternity depends on you, not on anybody or anything else.” He woke up a bit and thanked me for telling him that.

    This is the same phrase churchies used on me to get me to stay. “Aren’t you worried about your ETERNITY?” I had to laugh because all we have is right now and the future is ours to create as we see fit. And these so-called OT’s lives are SOOO messed up. Broke, sick, dying, offspring on drugs, blah, blah, blah. I’m healthy and happy and my sons are doing GREAT. The churchies are keyed into that PHRASE. So, here’s my approach. I ask them, “Are you worried about your ETERNITY?” When they say yes, just let them talk. And find out what they are thinking because it’s the ultimate in irresponsibility to think another person or church or philosophy can take your eternity away.

    Just my two cents…

  398. George White

    Yes, I see your point about OTVIII’s leaving. I know of others who
    were on the ship with me who just went on to other goals.

  399. Mystery Sandwich:

    Grilled Hot Dog
    Peanut Butter
    Maple Syrup
    Grilled Bun

  400. Scott Campbell

    Ahhhh! Horrorshow!

  401. George White

    Sapere Aude,
    You are very welcome. I wanted to provide some input because I felt that my story could help answer some of the questions which were arising on this blog.

  402. George White

    Dear OTDT,
    Appreciate your kind words. All is very well indeed.

  403. Scott Campbell

    Thanks Lynne,

    I actually waited until my father passed away in Nov. 2007 to even let myself confront these issues.

    I’m glad to hear of your newfound goal. I’ve lived on planets like that in the past. Very beautiful.


  404. George White

    To Just Me:
    Just glad I could help someone with my story.

  405. Mr Fancy

    I think I understand your question, and and I consider it valid enough as it far as it goes.
    The thing that I am running up against in this thread, is this. Are you really trying to duplicate what you are being told here about the nature and use of “OT abilities” (as defined by those answering you) or are you holding up what you consider “OT abilities” should be, according to what LRH said somewhere? I acknowledge that the abilities that LRH has cited are pretty phenomenal, for sure, but I haven’t heard anyone here say that they had the ability (or willingness) to stop DMs heart, turn him to dust, fling him into the stratosphere, or any similar thing.

    So my first question is, are you simply trying to point out that LRH possibly overstated things, when he postulated the abilities of a fully rehabilitated thetan? If so, my answer is YES, but then I do not presume to be a fully rehabilitated thetan.

    Next question. Are you pursuing this line of questioning to somehow get one of the OTs that have some “paranormal” ability to “get off the pot” and USE THEIR POWERS to stop DM?
    If so , I offer this as a theoretical exercise.
    It is very likely that you are totally capable of “taking DM out ” somehow, yourself, if that was your total intent and you were clever about it. So….I ask, why have you not done so yourself? You seem to feel it is necessary. You appear to be baiting others to do so. But why not you?
    You see, there are other issues involved here. There are other Dynamics to consider, legal issues, the concept of “what gives you the RIGHT to take it into your own hands without you being totally capable and willing to take full responsibility for whatever happens next, across your dynamics.”

    You see, we each have those considerations to deal with, (unless one is insane and cannot consider consequences.)

    Or as L Ron Hubbard puts it in the book Advanced Procedures and Axioms, under “Responsibility”,

    ” One does not send to find for whom the bell tolls without full willingness to have tolled it and to have caused the cause of its tolling.”

    Perhaps a little “poetic” but ….?


  406. Scott Campbell

    Great article Steve.

    One of my favorite books is ‘Illusions” by Richard Bach. Have you read it?

    Your article reminded me of why the physical universe is what it is and the postulates laid in “in order” to create this universe of vias which we call the physical universe.


  407. So true to me too.

  408. I just calls ’em as I see ’em ma’am.
    You’re most welcome.
    Michael A. Hobson

  409. Lynn

    A little poem for you. I call it … For some , it is like this….

    Treading Water

    Life’s like being lost at sea.
    You’re treading water endlessly.
    There’s so much more you’d like to see,
    and places that you’d rather be,
    a notion that you should be free,
    yet still you tread a cold, black sea.

    And, mark my words,
    without a plan,
    you’ll live,
    you’ll die,
    you’ll tread again!


  410. Publius, Oh, yeah it will happen one day. Marty already picked out a title:
    LRH and Me. It will be recollections of people who knew LRH personally. Hopefully, it will become a multiple viewpoint system biography of LRH. Dan Sherman, you are being bypassed.

  411. Scott


    DM also has that “don’t talk to anyone about this, or I will kill you.” His version of “kill” is to “take away your eternity”.
    Truth is that he is apparently already actively altering the route so that you will not ever “arrive”.

    The only chance to really go free is if you defy him and GTFO. (Get The F- – k Out). Now you can LOOK, you can TALK, and you can pursue your OWN goals.

    Anyone who is trying to control you is going to lie to you.


  412. Tony Dephillips

    Im on your wavelength man. And its a pretty cool channel.

  413. Jim
    “a basically good being, unable to restrain himself, or having committed harmful acts, who withholds himself and withdraws from a scene to protect others from those harmful acts.”

    Ahhh. soo true… but one might want to consider who these “others” are. There are 8 dynamics.

    I am having a bit of a new look here.

    I do not recall Ron saying that ALL of the overts that cause the being to “withdraw” are directed towards the person/thing being withdrawn from. That just because what the being is doing, is harmful to at least one being, situation, group, dynamic, or whatever, does not preclude “collateral damage” being done to other persons, situations, dynamics, etc. In addressing one’s ethics, one should also be addressing the “greatest good to the greatest number of dynamics, or the least harm to the least number. I believe that this concept of ethics is “built into” a being’s basic nature because it aligns with the “goals” of the dynamics.

    The more “sane” or pan determined one becomes, the more I feel that a greater breadth of responsibility for the effects of his actions is considered. At some point a being can simply apply the correct condition and choose to cease to continue to engage in activities that cause “more harm than good”.

    Leaving the situation that is Scientology Inc. is perhaps a good example. A person who is PTS to a suppressive person, etc,
    might fall into the category of “unable to restrain himself” from committing overts along his dynamics, so long as he is associated with the “suppressive”. He may not be “withdrawing” from Scientology Inc. to protect Scientology Inc. from any overts against Scientology Inc, but rather to protect his dynamics from further overts he is doing to them, because of his association with Scientology Inc.

    Perhaps another avenue that may well be worth exploring.

    As you say, “The fallacy is there is a single reason, applicable in every case”

    Just a thought…


  414. Done! H

  415. Something occurs to a being’s CURIOUSITY after VIII. It’s very out-pointy that so many leave the Game after doing that level.

  416. What kind of weirdo eats Mystery Sandwiches without ketchup?

  417. martyrathbun09

    Not to me it isn’t. It is perfectly natural. It is “truth revealed” awareness characteristic after all.

  418. Gee, I recall the ending being ” Congratulations! Now get your mother into scientology”, lol

  419. @Know TheTruth, if they exist, they why hasn’t Miscavige done them? Certainly he’d want the real power and ability to be gained from them, right? Just saying….

  420. @ Renata Lugli, I’m sorry for this loss. Thank you for speaking up about what happened.

  421. George White

    I think CURIOSITY was certainly tied in as one of the factors which motivated me to move on. There was, however, more to it. I felt really clean and my business stats were rising. In fact, my stats on all dynamics were on the increase. The curiosity tied into the desire to re-experience the world from a new perspective. The other key factor was not wanting to be controlled anymore. I saw the COS going through its major “unbundling” phase. What I mean by this is that in the 1970’s and early 1980’s products were sold as integrated bundles – you paid for a level and you got it delivered.
    In the late 1980′ and forward you had an “unbundled church” – you got a level or a product only bit by bit in small expensive pieces. I saw this trend and fled from it because I knew its long run detrimental consequences, and I could not slow it or stop it.

  422. George White

    I see the Truth Revealed characteristic in action here as well.
    It manifested itself as a sense of independence.

  423. No man is an island unto himself

  424. I suppose there comes a time when the baby bird leaves the nest, and I understand that, but as I wrote above, to Marty, we’re all in this together. There are other Dynamics.

  425. lol can we quote you on that?

  426. …and this was before DM/Bridge Publishing bought all that high-tech print-on-demand stuff. Put the squirreled tech of the day in one end, a book pops out the other. If you get really creative, you can flag specific groups to get tech tailor-squirreled for them.

    And good luck tracking revisions.

  427. Tory Christman

    Exactly, Songbird. That was a Key for me waking up: LOOKING. Actually
    FACING the FACTS, vs. the Hype I’d been buying for SO many years.
    Once you start looking, you get why they keep people SO insulated: IF they didn’t….they’d be gone, badda boom: g’bye.
    Start your life today: WALK OUT 🙂 🙂

    Give me a call:: I promise not to bite.
    (*818) 588-3044 (and IF you need a ride, I’ll come help you)

  428. George White

    Not many would disagree with “no man is an island”.
    But my point was that I saw the COS become more of an island unto itself.

  429. George White

    I see.
    Thank you.

  430. Yes, under MissCabbage the CoS has turned into Gilligan’s Island, George!

  431. Well done, H. It works right? radiation settled down so the are able to fix the mecanics :-))

  432. Great idea, great title – I can’t wait to read it!

  433. Watchful Navigator

    What a gem! That explains a lot for me. Thanks, Jim.

  434. Watchful Navigator

    Hello Tory –
    You wrote:
    “…a COMPLETELY Squirrel “C/S” of “See if you can walk down the street and NOT think about your case” (sort of like: Don’t think about an elephant)…”

    ABSOLUTELY, UTTERLY SQUIRREL C/S. Reverse Scientology. All the Way. WOW.

  435. Tara,

    I don’t think you need OT abilities to lead a cult or become a tyrant. There were certainly many before him that lacked Scientology training that were able to get the job done using purely MEST means. (Which, as I noted above, is *exactly* what DM uses.)

    Mr. F

  436. ODTD,

    What was the EP of the Comm Course again? Something about “being able to communicate with anyone about any subject”, right?

    I’ve got plenty of background info on the paranormal and paraspsychology. I don’t think that anything you could come up with would be beyond my ability to comprehend.

    In fact, I think I could be much more objective about it than someone who has been tricked into believing that LRH “only spoke truth”.

    Try me.

  437. WindWalker,

    Thank you for the thoughtful response. I will return the favor with a (hopefully) well-thought out response in return.

    First, a confession: I don’t believe in LRH’s re-definition of reality as being something that we merely agree upon. You and I could agree that the earth is flat, but that does not make it so. Indeed, the flat-earth postulate may be “true for you” if you are ignorant, but that does not make it Truth.

    I believe there is reality/truth, but we have limited means to perceive it called “belief”. In order to perceive it correctly, we have to be able to amend our beliefs in the light of new, and especially conflicting, data.

    The greatest advantage that Science has over Religion is that it is able to scrap old beliefs that have been proven false and replace them with amended beliefs.

    So with that in mind, LRH did a great disservice to his audience by insisting that he had figured everything out, and there was no need to alter the “tech” to KSW.

    You here in the Independent movement have an opportunity to turn from Religion and return to Science by acknowledging claims by LRH that were, in your words, “overstated things”. I’d coin it as this: LRH got many things right, exaggerated a good number of other things, and he flat-out lied about other things in order to get people to believe he was an authority figure.

    So, it was refreshing to see Marty spend a couple more posts about OT abilities, and get this conversation started. You Independents needed it. Scientologists everywhere need it. And for that matter, the World needs it.

    SO to your first question: Yes, I was pointing out in an admittedly backwards fashion that the OT abilities that LRH claimed were not only overstated, but if you look at his life, it is apparent that he himself was not a “rehabilitated thetan”. I’d go so far to say that there is no such thing as a “rehabilitated thetan” as LRH described. Ever.

    ANd I say that with confidence because those folks who were closest to LRH, the tech, and the upper eschelons of the CoS do not display anything near the abilities that LRH described. Remember, the use of Private Investigators and lawyers was started by LRH himself. I dare say that if he possessed the abilities that he stated a “rehabilitated thetan” would have, he would not need the MEST means he employed.

    AS far as “Taking DM out”, I definitely think he is a blight on humanity and he needs to be taken out-preferably to a maximum security facility where he can service his large, felonious cellmate using his powers of ARC and lots of lubrication.

    ANd yes, I did point out that someone “at cause over MEST” should have the ability to run his Vyrus motorcycle into a wall. Such a capability has no legal concerns in the scenario I mentioned-(how would you be convicted of postulating someone to crash?) As far as the “Right” to do so, DM has destroyed enough lives as it is. Marty and most others here seem to believe that DM and DM alone is the problem for perverting the tech, so if DM is indeed the “right Why”, removing him would produce the proper result.

    LRH himself did not shy away from responsibility to “take people out”; remember that he wrote the policies for Fair Game, Disconnection, and he formed the GO to blackmail critics, destroy psychiatrists, and even framed Paulette Cooper for a felony all in the name of doing “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics”.

    So, according to LRH, SPs may be “destroyed utterly”. DM is clearly an SP of the highest order. I think that you, as Scientologists, certainly have not only the “right” to take DM out, but you also have the responsibility to do so.

    So to be clear, I think that if you have the paranormal powers to do so, by all means make that evil son of a bitch drive himself into a wall doing 80 mph.

    In any event, I encourage you all to continue to expose the abuses done by the CoS in general, and DM in particular, so that people can be forewarned against the CoS.

    I also encourage you all to reform your religion into a better religion as much as possible, and into a science if you can. Both measures will necessitate an honest look at LRH, his policies, and a purge of the “tech” of that material that is harmful in order to preserve that material that is beneficial.

    Good luck, I hope you have what it takes in you to do it.

    Mr. F

  438. martyrathbun09

    Your first assumption about LRH’s definition of reality is so flawed as to belie you haven’t studied the subject.

  439. martyrathbun09

    As long as it doesn’t involved the subject of Scientology. Your recent comments belie an obsessive desire to stop its practice rather than understand it.

  440. Marty,
    I think you misunderstand the insidiousness behind the re-definition of words.

    By linking the term “reality” to “agreement”, LRH had a hidden implication that in order to understand reality you had to agree with his views of it.

    This is evidenced by the OT materials, and more specifically “The History of Man”. Despite the allure of “It’s only true if it’s true for you”, there was only one possibility of what “reality” actually was, and it is what LRH thought reality was.

    Any other possibilities did not allow you to go up the Bridge.

  441. martyrathbun09

    You just don’t get it; and clearly don’t want to.

  442. The way I heard it, it was “Go do OT-TR0 and this time, DO IT RIGHT!”

  443. Pingback: Alex Jones Attacks Psych Drugs and Defends Guns | OTVIIIisGrrr8!

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