This is a wake up call.
It is a sad story. But, it is unfortunately true.
It should be distributed to everyone who has ever paid one thin dime to the International Association of Scientologists (IAS) or who is contemplating doing so in the future.
As anyone who has attended an IAS event knows, each and every minute is a lead up – in Miscavige’s rolling thunder style – to the IAS Medal Award Winners. The audience is overwhelmed with special effects, blaring music, impossible (false) stats and poingnant, emotional vignettes about the winner and how he or she allegedly changed the fate of an entire nation or the world itself.
Miscavige understood early on that the medal winner crescendo was the IAS’s bread and butter. That is why he spent so much time in the editing bay at Gold personally constructing the deceptive hype videos introducting them. It is also why he early on knocked out the practice of anyone but himself dishing the medals out on stage.
One of the early IAS Freedom Medal winners was one Dennis Clark. Many newer Scientologists don’t know much about him. He hasn’t been showing up for the reunions at the annual IAS event at St Hill for a while.
That is because Dennis Clark over time lost grip of his mind. He was of the Allender ilk – the type of public that would kill for David Miscavige if asked. He is the overrestimulated zealot who was sending out mass emails after the St Petersburg Times Truth Rundown series in 2009, claiming Mike and I were being sponsored by big pharma (how else could such incredibly huge effects be created, he (and Miscavige) “reasoned”, I suppose).
Dennis later had a massive stroke more or less paralyzing an entire side of his body. One might think (particularly the likes of those dupes who spent millions on IAS statuses) that the IAS, or even the church, and surely their cult leader David Miscavige would take care of the old war horse in his time of need.
The answer turned out to be a definitive “NO.” And the proof is contained in the following email cycle between Clark and another IAS Freedom medal winner, one David Pomerantz. Read it yourself, and come to your own conclusions about the intentions and integrity levels of David Miscavige, IAS, and the “church” of Scientology.
Realize, these hearfelt, if bizarre, pleas by Clark went unanswered. However, friends of Dennis got into direct comm with me about getting Dennis help. And irrespective of his unprincipled and false black PR campaign against me personally, we answered the call. In fact it was an Indie who arranged for a guy in “good standing” to pony up some bread for premises for Dennis and some medical care. It had to be someone in “good standing” because Dennis might have suffered another stroke had he been approached directly by Indies. Until then Dennis was living out of his car. He was washing himself in public restrooms, and was in the streets begging for food. I am glad someone is taking care of him. I am appalled that worldly people like the Feschbacks and Bob Duggan continue to pay millions to Miscavige in attempts to bury us. Nonetheless, when Miscavige has betrayed them sufficiently and they too are out on the streets, we’ll be there for them as we were for Dennis.
First Email:
From: Dennis H. Clarke [mailto:clarke.dennis5@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:46 PM
> Subject: If I Want To Be Treated Like A Human Being, It Will Cost Me Extra
> Dollars
>
> I have been stupid in thinking the torture I have been subjected to here and
> at Hale Nani and at Straub Hosps has been personal. Making it worse for
> myself, I instinctively fight back. I have been very nieve and now see how
> this, like the prison guard situations, works on these captive populations
> and their families.
>
> These places are run by a mafia of some flavor, with some administrators,
> doctors and nurses plus the CNAs and and other staff involved. I had
> forgotten I was here in the far East!
>
> Food, baths, proper care in terms of medications and actual rehabilitation,
> all are subject to extra money, bribes and other extra dollar factors.
>
> I have missed their W/Hs and so now know my life is in danger here!
>
> I need extra dollars for bribes and/or to get out of here, ASAP.
ML,
>
> Dennis
Response From David Pomerantz
On May 14, 2011, David Pomeranz wrote:
> Understood, Dennis.
>
> Wow! That sounds like a bad espionage movie – one I don’t want to see. I’m
> sorry you’re having to go through this.
>
> This makes it manadatory that we get you to the Philippines pronto. Is the
> only unresolved problem your accomos?
>
> Love,
> D.
Dennis’s final plea
From: Dennis H. Clarke <clarke.dennis5@gmail.com>
To: David Pomeranz <upwardspiral2@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 5:03:42 PM
Subject: Re: If I Want To Be Treated Like A Human Being, It Will Cost Me Extra Dollars
Yes, its accomos and I still dont know what I am gettig for my money ($1600 for three months of what?).
In doing some due dilligence over the Internet and with acquanteces here, I have been told/learned that overall, treatment at the Dr’s University Hospital in Cebu City, runs about half of St. Luke’s in Manila and is comperable. I’m more than a little afraid of running out of money and so, have hit something of a Q & A between the two.
I’ve gotten exactly zero assists through the org here and have had to rely on three friends here and my son. The only one I can actually rely on at this point is my son and he is going with me. The three friends have either blown the cycle or lost intrest, months ago. That leaves my son only, for assists at this point.
I have little hope of being able to buy further services from our Orgs. Thus, the worrys about cash and the need to get as much rehab as I can get with what money I have left.
That’s what I am working to resolve.
I am also going to go legal against another member here who is refusing to discuss $400,000 he had agreed to pay me for solar sales I made for him here. Since the stroke, he has apparently decided to simply steal the $400,000 commission. He has hired a former senior HCO terminal here to help him. Together, they have the backing of the local org.
Believe me, there are these important (to me) matters I still have to deal with here.
I’m working on them as best I can but I’m hitting the wall, physically and theta wise. I have been mid OT V since 1987 and that’s appently much too long. Frankly, I’m wearing down fast without help from my group.
Love,
Dennis
Incomplete on NOTs for twenty-four years? Only a suppresive group of the lowest order could manage that. I could, and would if he woke up and reached, straighten him out with a yank in very short order. Easy.
In the event there is any remaining mystery why I chose the the email address howdoesitfeel@hushmail.com, there ought not be now:
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
I know other ‘in guys’ that could help Dennis. I know him well. It was a year or so ago, and he was healthy, that people had to buy all of his food and shelter for him. Makes you wonder.
It’s a shame, no empathy is expressed for members of the C of M. The Chaplain’s office is non-existant.
Very sad actually. I first met Dennis and his wife at the time in Sacramento, Ca when I was on tour years ago. Dennis was new then and a nice enough fellow. Then over time I watched what was happening and it was scary. He became the voice for CCHR and when I say a voice, it was as though someone else stepped in and took over! None of this surprises me although I feel for Dennis and all the Dennis’s that have been and continue to be created by DM. Once you are a risk to them (be it medically, emotionally, physically) you are thrown away like garbage.What has become of this so-called church today represents no human respect, love compassion, care or concern for anyone or anything. It is all about greed.
You are a good person, Marty.. I don’t know what I would have done for him.
What is Greatness? LRH
I’m impressed that you can show compassion and sympathy for someone who attacked you and Mike in the past.
Unfortunately not going to be the last nor is this the first incident of health gone bad and abandoned by the church. Sad to say Dave and the rest of the CW gang labeled him a DB and threw him to the curb. It doesn’t matter that Dennis spent a great deal of life helping the group, to then find himself standing alone on a street corner with no help in sight from the very group he would fight to the core for.
Marty,
You should take a laptop out to the Assbusters and show them this. Dennis Clark was the original AssBuster. He flew in from Hawaii to take care of David Mayo and the AAC. This was before he became the CCHR “spokesman”. He patented the “in your face” confrontations of Mayo and the AAC. He is their “Founder” and they should see what has happened to him for their own education.
He is not the only one who has been cast aside and left to rot — there are many senior citzen SO members who have had the same treatment. Numerous public who ran out of money and even other IAS medal winners who were no longer fashionable.
The other people who should be made to watch this video are the IAS vultures who have regged tens of millions using Dennis Clark’s video clips and CCHR in general as one of their biggest scare tactics to gouge money out of people (and I have beenn told by many that the IAS has even used lines that “giving money to handle suppression will give you more case gain than anything else you can do.”)
This subject is almost too degraded and base to discuss.
+1
Thanks Mike. Yes, this is just the tip of the iceberg. That is why it is labelled “Part One.”
This IS extremely sad but certainly not surprising.
Unless you are perfect until you drop dead – dm’s church will ignore, defame, diminish and just expunge you from their records.
This is not a church. This is not a community. This is not sanity.
This is purely and simply a money making machine, rolled out on the backs of the uninformed and enslaved.
Dennis knew what he was doing was ultimately wrong. He made unethical choices which of course harmed not just others but himself.
Perhaps he will now have an opportunity to reflect on his life and move on up.
We can hope so.
WH
Isn’t it amazing how so many people for so many years have thrown so many other people under the bus without a challenge if they were told to do so by their so called church – yet, they never thought one day they would be the ones to be dismissed. Poor Dennis Clark. He always seemed a little kooky on TV, but it breaks my heart that he’s in the condition he’s in.
When I first started to search the internet the most gut wrenching stories were about the elderly Sea Org members that could no longer function being sent to publicly funded nursing homes where only the staff took care of their needs. They’d been working for 40 years, 16-18 hours a day, had no pension and their friends could not get a CSW approved for a visit. And to know that the money for their care was there all along. It’s just D-emented-M-udforbrains chooses to spend it on PIs to harass good, law abiding citizens.
Following Dr. Denk’s memorial service in November, 2004, I was escorted off post and out of Author Services. Then I was contacted by the IAS reg, Howard Becker, and encouraged to take out a home equity loan as “COB has a really big situation.”
I just posted the above comment on the last topic. Then this topic popped up on my screen. Marty says, “come to your own conclusions about the intentions and integrity levels of David Miscavige, IAS, and the ‘church’ of Scientology.”
My conclusion of seven years ago was that I, personally, was betrayed by those in whom I had confidence, including David Miscavige. I see this same destructive intention as concerns Dennis Clarke. I thank my lucky stars that we are here to help him out.
It’s easy to become cynical under these conditions. Yet, the handling is to become more effective. Please let me know if I can do anything to help.
My ex-husband and I did Patron Meritorious together and I was the darling of the reges when they continually came to me asking me to ‘handle’ my husband to fork over yet more money.
When I put my foot down and said ‘no-more’ I was no-longer of any use and my ‘disaffection’ became a threat to their income lines.
So the church went after my marriage.
Fact.
Don’t walk RUN!
It should be noted that I was at ASI at the time. Miscavige was directly running Vicki Aznaran, then D/IG, out of ASI. RTC was in its forming stages and was assigned full time to taking out the AAC and other “splinters” of the time. I was mainly concentrated on defending suits naming LRH. But, I cross flowed DM giggling with delight at Vicki would recount Dennis’ exploits. About two years into it however, they went beyond the pale and the church was hit with a temporary restraining order. THEN and ONLY then, did Miscavige reel me into this. He acted outraged that Vicki and RTC would do such “stupid” stuff; and ordered that from that point forward RTC was not to breathe without clearing it with me. So, Vicki and Jesse and Warren used to haul their butts over each week to go through their battle plans in excrutiating detail at my desk. And there were no more such silly antics repeated for a time. Miscavige’s concern was that the Ass Busters antics would prejudice the big Trademark/Copyright suit against Mayo. Of course it did – and the damage was done, and the Mayo case thereafter was primarily the church defending Mayo’s counterclaim for over the top harasssment. You know the end game – Mayo was paid millions to go away and NOT force us into court to lose the validity of the marks and copyrights.
Also, Bless the ever lovin heart of the Indie who arranged for Dennis to be cared for properly. Whether I am on the same page with Dennis or not, it was the right thing to do. He was quite the warrior for his cause.
Are you kidding. You have done more than just about anyone I know. You are an angel – and I ain’t exaggerating.
And unfortunately, “perfect” in this equation means willing to park all emotion, compassion, and love for one’s fellows and act as a human battering ram to violate people’s rights.
I remember Dennis from reports of the Mad Picket, in 2000.
I also remember being worried about Marty in much the same way he is worrying about Dennis. In 2005, I wrote this: http://www.xenu.net/archive/rtc/ (“Warren and Marty’s Excellent Adventure:)
Since I was never a Scientologist, I have no idea what it’s like to emerge from that immersion.
As in this instance with Dennis Clarke, it’s important to remember the distinction between the organization and its written policies that hurt people, and the people who perhaps are kept blind to that for years before making the decision, sometimes at great personal cost, to stop using those policies. I hope Dennis can heal.
One of the things I noticed in 2007 upon leaving the group is that they supplant an idea of ARC for love. They have forgotten about love. They are unsympathetic at best. Robotism. Sad.
‘In’ or ‘out’ they’re one of ours. They are Scientologists and have been betrayed just as we have. Each person has a personal journey out of the madness and back to sanity; the hard part (confront of evil) has just begun for Dennis but I’m sure he’ll make it 🙂
Can’t say I feel the same way about Miscavige… it will be a cold day in hell before I ever reach out a hand in friendship or help in the direction of the destroyer of souls.
That is SO true. Where did the love go???
Mechanical substitution for the real thing.
How about this for a marriage proposal?:
“Let’s work on the ‘C’ more and establish some ‘R’ and then maybe we will arrive at ‘A’. After that we’ll do a quick check on the relative comm lags and draw up an admin scale to make sure our purposes are aligned.”
Ha ha! Any takers?
Unfortunately the “Freedom Medal Winners” tend to be a box of broken toys. A book could be written on what happened to each of these “winners” after Miscavige got done with them.
Here’s some more insight into the criminal mind of Radical Scientology.
One of the statistics of Miscavige (which he bases his self paid bonuses on) is Advanced Tech VSD (Value of Service Delivered). This VSD comes mainly from Division 4A at the Sandcastle, at Flag. In order to stat push this, Miscavige has a number of RTC Reps who literally run Division 4A of the FSO. The Captain FSO has no authority over Division 4A. Every liberty, condition assignment, personnel change, etc has to be approved by an RTC Rep.
In order to squeeze more production, the RTC reps entered more and more arbitraries which would then get applied to the rest of the org. Example, travel time to meals was removed from the schedule. If your lunch started at 12:00 then you stayed on post until 12:00 then walked out and waited for a bus to take you across Clearwater to eat lunch. Liberties became “half libs” which meant that you could count Saturday morning, when the crew cleaned their rooms, as your liberty and you had to be on post on Saturday like everyone else.
The final straw for me was when it was announced that there would no longer be reduced schedules for the elderly and the sick. Those Sea Org members that could not do the full schedule (morning to night, 7 days a week) would be declared “unfit” and off loaded.
I couldn’t believe it. We were supposed to work like slaves our whole life and as soon as we couldn’t keep up with the FULL schedule due to age or illness we were supposed to be given a bus ticket and $100 and shipped out!!!!!!!!
Of course you are first gotten to sign all kinds of legal documents while being videoed that you will never speak out against the church, that you will never come back to Clearwater, etc.
While for PR reasons the above off load “policy” was never fully applied, the intention was clear. I knew at that point that I needed to get out of the Sea Org while I could still provide (physically) for myself.
It appears that the only use the Co$ has for its members is the amount of money,production and dirty work they can get from them. Once you no longer meet these demands,you are no longer viable in their eyes. They turn genuinely good,thoughtful and kind people innocent hollow shells of their former selves. Robots that will do and say exactly what is programmed into them. Disgusting. RUN RUN RUN FAR AWAY FROM THE Co$
Hi Marty;
This is SOP for the CofS and always has been. Illness or injury = downstat.
I know of two persons who developed cancer.
Out the door. Period.
One went to Mexico and got ‘cured’, and got back into session and did very well. The other one, his wife managed to get a C/S to write up an assists program she could do on him at home. Last I heard he was back at Flag, still mid OTVII.
I was in a motorcycle incident, wrapped up for a week. I was mid OTIII at the time, and not even a call from AO to help, no assists, no comm, nothing.
As a staff auditor in the PAC area, there were so many elder SOs, so many, who eventually just faded away. I have no idea what happened to them, probably offloaded.
This organization has always been treacherous in this serfac, any non-optimum situation = downstat = ignore. Make the able more able, and to hell with the rest.
Disgusting.
That’s sick Sam. I am sorry that happened to you.
Marty-
This story gives a whole new meaning to the acronym “IAS”: I Am Sadistic.
Marty,
This post hits a nerve.
After returning to what was left of Scientology management in Los Angeles in 2005, I was working on a project to help sort out Senior HCO personnel and ethics files, files for everyone that had ever worked for Scientology in the entire world. Thousands of files passed through my hands in a matter of days.
The overwhelming impression I was left with from reviewing those files can be summed up in one word – disposable. In the 14 years I’d been away everyone had become disposable. The moment they were no longer of any real use they were thrown aside and left to rot. Loyal and long serving staff, friends of LRH, heroes and average Joes alike, it didn’t matter how long or how well you had served, you were disposable.
It’s now an entire theme in Miscavige’s “brave” new world, a hallmark. Staff are disposable. Children are disposable, as are spouses and family. The sick and aged are number one on the list of course and will continue to be so as he forces tax payers to pick up the tab (Medicaid and Workers Comp) for his disposable staff and Sea Org members.
And speaking of harassment, hope the harassers are taking note of what’s happening with Murdoch and the News of the World. Their hacking and tapping days are numbered.
I know/knew Dennis. I never understood his unwavering fanaticism. When Lisa McPherson died, he was sure that ‘outside forces’ were responsible. When I suggested that it was more likely incompetence and out tech were to blame, he went ballistic. He was scary.
Yet, I wouldn’t wish what happened to him on anybody. I hope he gets the help he needs to recover fully by which I mean, mentally, spiritually and physically.
Sad but not surprising. Last I remember seeing Dennis was a decade or so ago in Clearwater where he ran an anti-psych radio show. I walked into his studio one day with my camera and with his permission took bunch of shots. Dennis was visibly delighted by this attention (though I was with OSA that visit was spirited by my personal interest). Dennis at that time was considered a loose cannon, a potential security risk… Wouldn’t Dennis – or anyone for that matter – kind of pick that up??? That they are excluded, not included. It’s one of the worst things you can do to another, make him or her feel excluded. Terrible stuff. So I think I felt for Dennis at that time, wanting to show some support.
Thanks Marty for answering the plea for help. I am not surprised that you did. You sir, are awesome.
Same thing happened to me, Sam, especially after I wrote up numerous detailed KR’s on Flag’s obvious out tech being run on my then-husband’s case. Then the game became, get rid of the wife, destroy the family. And they did.
I am just getting the cadence and intention of your e-mail address “how does it feel”, now that you refer to it in the context of this story. I have often felt that it takes getting thrown under the bus for most folks to wake up, with few exceptions. It was Dennis turn. Hope he can recover and rise from the situation he finds himself in. And then move on up a little higher. Nice of you to offer to help him Marty. Your a class act in so many ways.
Haydn, you hit the nail on the head with the description “disposable.”
Wow, I hate to hear this news about Dennis. Although I never met the him I did, on a few occasions, attend talks he gave when he would come through Portland back in the day. I always liked him and admired his modern day warrior beingness. Years later when I was living in Clearwater I would tune in daily to his 3hr long radio show, The Human Rights Hour. The HRH was not a radio talk show where any listeners would call in. Instead, it was Dennis filling the 3hrs with personal anecdotes, reading reports from numerous sources, interviewing really interesting guests and so on. Easily, the lion’s share of his program pertained in some way to the health care field. He also, of course, had shows about Dianetics and he often would play an LRH lecture. As I most of the time listened to his show through a litle boom box I had that also had a tape recorder. I ended up taping hrs and hrs of his programs. That noted, here’s a little side story about what I did with some of those tapes.
There were three guests that Dennis had on his show on a frequent basis. It was obvious that he really liked them and they really liked him. These three guests were: Dr. Udo Erasmus, the creator of “Udo’s Oil” (wonderful product!!), Dr. Sherry Rodgers, who shared incredible info straight from studies published in the Journal of the American Medical Assoc. This info that Sherry would bring to the table turned out to be a major process of false data stripping. And finally, there was Dr. Ann Blake Tracy who was an expert on psyche drugs. Well, I selected what I thought to be the best interview that each of these individuals had done with Dennis and I made numerous copies of each. Then, on a trip I made from Clearwater to AR then to TX and back to FL, whenever I came even close to a health food store, I would stop in, visit for a while then before leaving, give the mgr of the store copies of these three interviews. A couple of yrs later when I made another trip to AR, and stopped back in to a couple of stores that I had visited previously I noticed that they were selling books by all three of Dr.s and also were selling Udo’s Oil. 🙂
Dennis Clark’s sphere of influence was certainly of no small magnitude.
As far as the CoS’s and church mbrs not reaching out to help a fellow mbr in need, this lack of compassion and lack of willingness to lend a helping hand, is, per my observations, not atypical amongst organized groups. This is the manifestatin of a species that has become “dis” e.g., disconnected, disassociated, disaffected, disparaged, dispassionate, disloyal, disillusioned and so on.
This phenomeon of throwing fellow mbrs under the bus in their time of need even occurs within the so called secret societies. For example, My grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason and when he reached a point in his life where he really could use a helping hand and turned to his group expecting one…well, no helping hand came from the Masons.
Okay, that being noted with regards to organized groups, I have seen and experienced in cyber communities, when someone in such a community hits a hard spot in the road, there is no lack of compassion and actual help that other mbrs of the community are ready and willing to flow.
I have never met nor do I personally know Dennis Clark, but his reputation and work for the IAS was known to most. Nonetheless, this impresses upon us all the proper need to provide proper insurance for one as they age. The money gouged out of pc’s for over-priced services could provide one a lot of health insurance. I know, because the money I would otherwise be paying to DM for his type 3 witch hunts does that for me.
Marty, that was one wonderful act of humanity, helping Dennis. I hope he will be made aware of your assistance. I hope we can get him on board as well.
The Church has been in “must be contributed to” for a long time now.
Anyone that surrenders into that fold with agreement is subject to all sorts of conditions that harmonize with that purpose.
Thanks for the perspective M&M!
Had thought that the PoB was basing his repeated Ass Buster ploy on something that “won”. It is actually not surprising that type of action cost Dear Loser, but is now being repeated. Doing things that lost in a new unit of time and expecting different results? Wow, what a Dear Loser!
Myself know of a Senior CS who refused to back down on suppression by Dm and landed up with cancer and left to basically Die. Only one person seeing her ,The medical officer at Flag land Bas, Whe enquires were amde , and an attempt to visit her,it was not allowned .It was a very sad state of Affairs . I do understand for Dennis. God help him. I understand the plea.
Thank you for the information
In the mid 90’s I worked with an OT3 selling carpets for a spell. I was around 24 and the OT was around 50. A year or so later, he called me up and sounded garbled. He informed me he had had a stroke and needed money desperately. I couldn’t think with the idea that and OT3 had had a stroke and that no matter how many calls he made, his fellow Scientologists weren’t kicking in.
So, this story above is utterly real to me and quite sad. Dennis made his bed and now he’s sleeping in it. But the DM use-abuse-then abandon tactic needs to be known by the goons in IOB. Of course, the “It will never happen to me” syndrome reaches far and wide with a stubborn vengeance.
If he doesn’t already, DM will have many painful somatics coming his way as he ages. He’s 51 currently. Bring on the pain, dimentia and suffering. He has made his bed….
Realize, while Clark (and others) are left for dead, dead beats from Int are being paid six figure in “severance” pay in order to make their non-disclosure agreements “enforceable.” I know of five of them that have left SINCE Mike Rinder in 2007 who have been paid high five figure and low six figure bribes to keep quiet about Miscavige’s crimes. While his Ass Busters spend 20K a day to provoke me into doing what all of those people who were paid to shut up know that Miscavige does DAILY, to defenseless people who did nothing to provoke him. It is plain as sick as it gets.
A co-worker of mine on staff in the early 90s said that he had a woman (a student and my friend was a Sup) who said something to him like, “I’m in Non-E on the 2D and maybe you are too, and I’d like to come out of Non-E with you on the 2D.”
He wasn’t really turned on by that to say the least.
Said it Before- “Is that how the CoM repays dedication and loyalty?”
Yep. I know your story and the whole thing lines up with mine (gross out tech on both of us also). Same sick pattern.
It almost worked but unfortunately for the pyscho behind this, the correct tech applied can be used to undo Black Dianetics.
Thanks Tony. All good now – I had a little help from my friends 😉
Thanks for explaining in plain words what game they are playing !
LOL sexy!…
Oops! Am I allowed to say that word?
Let me try again…
LOL 2D part Ay!
No. Doesn’t have the same ring 😀
Oh geeze, that train wreck of an organisation just keeps on crashing. It’s victims make for a sad and sorry story of human misery and betrayal.
Didn’t Winston Churchill say something like, “never has so much been done by so few for so many.” I feel that is probably the burden the Indies have to shoulder if the tech is ever going to be kept alive and filter into humanity. Cause it sure aint available in any form from you know who, even compassion is viewed with contempt from within the corridors of DMs group. What a bunch of heartless bastards.
Nice work Marty.
Oh dear 😦
Does that mean we need to order in the vomit bags for Part Two?
The Church rallied violently in the political arena to ensure the “health bill” did not get passed. (A violation of their tax exempt status agreements) The PR agenda was that psychs would benefit, but in reality, the Church did not want the expense of having to provide financially into that for their employees. Organizations would be forced to provide this for their employees. Who led the fight on that? CCHR. Who is left with no health insurance? Dennis Clark. Kindergarden Karma. That doesn’t mean we should not interfere with Karma. If we claim to be on higher ground that means mercy and compassion on end. A virtue wholly absent in the Church. These are truly the things that set us aside and keep us whole.
And that is what you are seeing in Marty with Dennis. The Church can degrade a lot of things, but never acts of mercy and compassion.
I’m not sure what if anything David Pomerantz did in response. He was in Phx for a bit and I was the orgs “driver” for a while, I guess because I had a cool old car and I drove at my moonlighting job. I drove him back and forth to the org nd to the event, to his hotel etc and got to know him a bit. He seemed like a good guy, and gave me advice about music and the business.
Thats where it gets funny, or exposes an outpoint- a string to pull. Because if he didn’t help Dennis and infact the last email went “unanswered” then why?
What would stop a Freedom Medal winner from helping a friend and fellow medal winner?
I have oberved a behavior in Church Members where if someone goes off the rails a bit and/or uses certain key words the Church Member will look away and remove themselves from the area. It’s a self imposed mini-disconnection. Dennis said he might try to get his $400,000 from the other Church Member and he’s complaining about the org. Those are buttons that will cause any fearful Church Member to disconnect. You don’t want our name to end up in someones KR about Dennis. Best thing to do is disconnect and write your own KR.
FOR ANYONE UNFAMILIAR WITH DENNIS’S WORK:
Spotting truth is a form of mercy and compassion that spreads like warm healing tonic.
I think there is a practice of removing anyone who is not ideal.
This way:
All Church Members are healthy.
All Church Members are drug free.
All Church Members have money to donate
All Church Members talk the same way
All Church Members think the same way
All Church Members react the same way
If not then you “have a sit” or you are PTS”, “SP”, “Offlines” “Out ethics”, etc.
I assume thats where Dennis ended up- labeled.
In 2003 this same type of treatment was happening to the older and aged staff members at the Int Base. Dear Losers plan was to offload these older people to LA, Flag and even back to Australia so he wouldn’t have to deal with all the shortened schedules and medical sits coming up with them and these other base orgs could suck up the expense. So sad as they were all long time staff at the base. And on the heels of that the mass exodus started and that led to offloading the “deadwood” next with 40 or more good people shipped out to the “Int Ranch” and then to the PAC Ranch. As you said Mike they all become disposable. That led partly to my decision to get out of there before I became disposable. So sad about Dennis but good to hear he’s getting some help – thanks Marty.
I also had been in Cine for a spell in the Research department working on a few of the IAS Freedom Medal winner videos and they do get to be quite hyped up.
Thats not binding though right? You cannot legally give up your own rights. And certainly nothing they signed could prevent them from testifying.
Well, as the old saying goes, you know who your real friends are when you are down and out.
Sam and Rob,
Scientology is a very technical religion/philosophy, and as a result it is easy to become clinical about the most profound of human existence. It also makes it easy for some people to individuate from actual life, if they are not careful. My favorite biblical author is the Apostle Paul. He is a man I would have loved to meet in real life. I recently reread the Bible New Testament, and love Paul’s take on life and on the lessons of Jesus. Paul’s 1 Corinthians 13 is an amazing description of the power of Love, and in my opinion, anyone studying about ARC and the higher states of being, should also study this:
New International Version (NIV)
1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
To me, an OT, an enlightened being, should personify the above. This is hard to do. But, it is through Love, through total ARC, through Pan Determinism, through the top end of the Chart of Attitudes, that we do well and help others, and promote the Divine.
The concept of “doing the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” does NOT mean “impoverish yourself in order to feed the coffers of Mr. David Miscavige,” it means to show love and compassion for your fellows, for life, for this planet, and DO THE RIGHT THING and make things BETTER. Actually better.
Scientology truly is wisdom. That some people want to take these words of wisdom and twist them to mean “gimme, gimme, gimme” is the atrocity.
The fact that they don’t practice these words of wisdom is apparent from the PROOF on this and other blogs.
What do you think the copper rods are for, why would he see his best friend Jack every night, what would he need personal massage for, why does he revel in the pain of others……
Sounds like she might be a Liability on the 2D to me, and I would have passed, too! I actually had one SO girl try to recruit me so she could marry me. I, uh, declined.
Sinar, I’m sure in Miscavige’s mind, he “won”.
I guess it was lost on him that he ultimately created an army of enemies (former church members) that just a few years later took their voices to the Internet and exposed his crimes for the world/media/public to read about whenever they do a simple search on the term “scientology”, from the comfort of their own homes.
And one wonders why the international stats have crashed over the last 20 years?
Great move Miscavige. You really “made it go right”. (puke)
Marty, This is a form of “memory swipe”.
“How much cash will it cost us to swipe your memory?”
“How much cash will it cost us for you to forget who you were?”
“How much cash will it cost us for you to not be there and communicate?”
“How much cash will it cost us to make others “not know”.
“How much cash will it cost us to make you forget names?”
“How much cash will it cost us to make you forget dates?”
“How much cash will it cost us to make you forget details?”
“How much cash will it cost us to make you “not know?”
Sounds like the stuff we got into Scientology to free ourselves from.
Reverse Scientology at the highest levels.
Mike,
I thought Dennis became international spokesman for CCHR in the late 70’s.
Ditto to everything you said.
The cult says if you criticize them you are in a “hate group”.
If you are married to someone and point out out tech on their case then YOU must be the “SP”.
So whenever something is not ideal for them they attack and destroy.
That is the definition of insanity.
Said it before- “it’s the Church goal and EP for life long dedication and loyalty!”
It’s the same as saying, “How much do we have to pay you to get off the bridge?”
They take donations for nothing in exchange, stopped being solvent by selling and delivering Scientology LONG ago, and use the donos to pay people to walk away and stay off the bridge.
DM has put this entire subject into reverse mode.
Only one problem there. Hubbard wrote a lot about how to handle suppression with the view of Scientologists against non Scientology attackers.
There were no advices about Scientologists against Scientologists. There it comes down to the pen and the sword. And Marty, you’ve got plenty of ink.
Ink: 3. Informal Coverage in the print media; publicity: Her campaign rallies generated a lot of ink. 2. Informal To append one’s signature to (a contract, for example). ink – First spelled inke and enke—from Greek enkauston, the purple ink used by Roman emperors. [from Old French enque, from Late Latin encaustum a purplish-red ink, from Greek enkauston purple ink, from enkaustos burnt in, from enkaiein to burn in…
Mat,
In my opinion any public that knows the Sea Org does this and they still support it are cowards.
I would never want to “go free” knowing the misery of the Sea Org members. Their blood will not be on my hands
Great post Oracle.
I certainly remember Dennis well from my early CCHR spokesman days. As I recall, he was the national spokesman while I was the spokesman for California. So I got to know him a quite a bit for a time.
FWIW, I also observed he could become “overstimulated” upon occasion. Yet he was someone I was proud to go with into battle. He never backed down.
Obviously his loyalty blinded him to the horrible threat, and ultimately death-star level devastation, within the church. But he certainly was not alone in that regard.
So here we are again, with M&M and other Indies moving in on the line to provide aid and comfort to a fallen comrade. Doesn’t matter if he/she is heads up or tits up.
To me, this is an acid test of whether we abide by The Code of Honor or not.
To me, this is one clear way we can evaluate who is real and who is a fake.
Scios lurkers, please look closely at this situation.
It speaks volumes. And at some point (my guess is really soon) each of us must choose a side to stand on.
After all, there are no spectators on the Road to Freedom.
Thanks to all who are helping.
Vic K.
David Miscavige is now over 50. He, too, is beginning to show his age, and the half-smirk is now well set in. He is no longer the pretty boy. In fact, he is looking more and more like a reptile ready to shed its skin. It’s inevitable.
L
Bryan and Chris,
Both of your posts are excellent. This thread really hit a key button. I know we said ” buttons? Fuck buttons!” But sometimes knowing a button is useful.
Maybe this “disposable ” button is more like an LFBD item, several dials worth.
“Disposable” – There is one person who needs to be disposed of, all right.
LRH’s idea of “making the able more able” was to help people survive better so they can help other people survive better. DM has bastardized the idea of “Making the able more able” to mean, “suck from the able as long as they are able, then dispose of them because they are downstat DBs.”
If the only people who “deserve” Scientology are people who are already upstat and living well and rich as Croesus, then there is no need for Scientology – they don’t need help!
We are living in the reality now where Scientology has been around long enough that people who were young and strong, giving their all for Scientology in the SO and at Class IV or V orgs are now senior citizens. There are no “lifetime achievement” awards for these people. There are no gold watches, or church-paid retirement – there is no retirement at all. I have no idea what happens when they try to get Social Security, since none of them made much money to feed into it.
DM uses them up when they are young, strong, and bright-eyed with mission, and tosses them on the ice floe when they are old, broken, tired, and wise.
And, if along the way, if they run out of $$$ and get a might uppity, toss them out and label them as SP members of a “Hate Group”.
Only DM and his followers would call humanity a “hate group.”
another example that the church is NEVER there when u really need them
they are hypocrites of the WORST kind
they will cast u aside like a piece of garbage the moment you are not toeing the line and giving your time or money
it is an ez group to dislike to a great extent
they are creating enemies by the boatloads every minute of everyday
the c of s deserves what they are pulling in
wake up people look at what is happening
stop supporting this out exchange criminal group
run run for the hills before they take EVERYTHING you have
money, spirit and your mind
run run fr
w
The wonderful Sir Winston did, indeed, say “Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few”. It was in relation to the Battle of Britain pilots who kicked ass and took names in order to save England and her allies in August 1940. He went on immediately afterwards to say “All hearts go out to the fighter pilots, whose brilliant actions we see with our own eyes day after day but we must never forget that all the time, night after night, month after month, our bomber squadrons travel far into Germany, find their targets in the darkness by the highest navigational skill, aims their attacks, often under the heaviest fire, often at serious loss, with deliberate, careful precision, and inflict shattering blows upon the whole of the technical and war-making structure of the Nazi power. ” Here’s a link to the full speech: http://century.guardian.co.uk/1940-1949/Story/0,,128255,00.html.
Whatever the poor s*d in the post had done formerly, he did not deserve the fate to which he was callously left. It takes a human worthy of the name to swallow past hurts and be big enough to offer help.
But here is something to dwell on. One day – assuming things follow the general pattern – DM himself will be frail, elderly and infirm. And who will fear him then? WHO will help HIM then…? You reap what you sow, little David – maybe not for months, years, decades even. But, one day, you will – most likely – be receiving precisely the same treatment you have cruelly meted out to others. Remember that.
IEG x
There was a time with the CofS had credibility.
I have zero respect for those who accept bribes to be silent.
Actually Sinar,
All of us working on the technical side of “Assbusters” were given the impression that we’d “won”.
I remember when Red called us all into the Quad at ASHO and informing that we had triumphed over the forces of evil i.e. AAC.
I don’t think any of us knew about the internecine warfare that was going on behind the scenes.
I mean we were nothing but a buncha dumb techies.
Guess the rest of it was on a “need to know” basis.
For someone like Miscavige and the gang to claim that the GO was some evil criminal organization ban it and then go on playing off their rule book is a fascinating study in hypocrisy.
Not only that but like the so called IRS “Victory” the “victory” over the AAC was Pyrrhic victory at best since much of the Advanced Course materials ended up in the public domain after this.
Something I didn’t realize until later.
Man – this opens up such a can of worms. I have a sibling who has worked for a Scientologist-owned company for over half his life, and of course, there is no healthcare insurance, and very little of any kind of benefits. And this is a relatively good company with a good rep in the industry.
I know for a fact that insurance is perceived by many Scientologists as a waste of money, since if you are truly able, you will never get sick, never get an accident, never get any debilitating diseases, never, in short need insurance. It is a bet against yourself, and is a counter-intention to your own survival. I had this attitude myself when I was in my twenties. Most twenty-somethings think they will live forever, never get sick, or die, but the church institutionalized this attitude.
I have another family member who had a stroke – and it is incredibly baffling to have the body impose itself on you in that way, since strokes screw up the brain’s wiring. Things you think you perceived directly turn out fo have been perceived via the brain – things like letters and numbers, and even spacial relationships. It can be quite a surprise and disappointment to be OT and realize still how dependent on the body you can be.
And, there is the fact that the body decays, period. It just does, no matter what you do. It is a fact, and an obvious one, unless you believe the horseshit that you can defy aging by eating Super blue-green algae or taking massive amounts of vitamin C and/or D (etc.). Nothing wrong with eating well, but we have bodies designed to die (Theta-MEST theory, anyone?) and die they will, on a gradual or not-so-gradual slope.
The point is that we are on this planet, living in a meat body. Ron was very clear that if you are on this planet, living in a meat body, you are 2 1/2 strikes gone already. Not-ising this and ignoring it will not change it, and it is heartless to abandon people you profess to love when reality comes knocking on the door.
It is time for Scientologists to wise up and plan for their “retirement.” Sea Org members cannot depend on the CofS taking care of them into their senior years, despite assurances that their low wages are compensated by full room, board, medical, dental, etc. Once people don’t look like the pictures in the glossy magazines and advertisements and become ill and need expensive medical care and rest, they are pushed aside and out. There is no confront for “old” or “ill.” Compounding this is members have been forced to disconnect from family and friends who could provide support and care. Start figuring out what you are going to do or you can expect to be alone and dependent on the U.S. government/local County for your medical care. Pray that Obama care survives the challenges from conservative political groups and provides better access to medical care for people whose only “medical insurance” is a false promise from DM’s CofS.
Sorry to hear of Dennis Clarke’s misfortunes, although my impression of him over the years was always that he was a bit of a bully. Sort of in the Allender mold only with much, much higher confront. Rather than stalking lone women or hassling somebody when he had them outnumbered four to one, Dennis would work off his aggression by getting in the elevator at an APA convention and bullbait a half-dozen psychs at the same time. He might fail the “plays nice with others” test, but you have to admit the guy has some major-league balls.
And Marty, you’ve got those plus a generous dose of “What is Greatness”. Unbeatable combination.
Don’t joke! I actually have crossflowed (saw others talking about) that very discussion about finding and entering into a 2D (a boyfriend girlfriend relationship).
I was approached that way in an email by a Scientologist once too … it was so sterile … I had the feeling I was on the person’s “2D battle plan”.
Incredible. Yes, sick and tragic. I hope that you can reveal more about these people when the time is right. But then again, the legal agreements may prevent that. I thank you anyway for telling us this. What a slimy rat that camera operator is.
You’re in good company Rachel.
From what I know they did something similar to Mary Sue.
The woman had dedicated most of her life to Scientology and even helped Ron in naming and to a degree discovering the subject.
Yet was basically abandoned and forgotten.
The same thing happened to our good friend Don Breeding.
The man who contributed to converting Voley’s brainchild into a more workable portable solid state Emeter.
I mean the list of bodies that the coup stepped over when they seized control of the Church in the early ’80’s is too numerous to list.
Poor Dennis Clarke is just late on the chain.
“and I have beenn told by many that the IAS has even used lines that “giving money to handle suppression will give you more case gain than anything else you can do.”)”
I can attest to that. Reges like Howard Becker, Michael Roberts and Jeff Pomerantz, all used to say that making a huge IAS donation will cause you to experience “fourth dynamic case gain”. I think they do this because scientologists know they are giving up money that could be spent on actual training/auditing. There’s no LRH policy basis for the IAS – a “pure donation” crush regging organization.
Dennis Clarke … incomplete on OT 5 since 1987, that’s 24 years !!!
LRH wrote that a registrar has to care about the people he is selling to. What a bummer that no reg cared about Dennis in the last 24 years …
He should have worked on his bridge, of course. Ignoring the 1st dynamic equals treason. Being very active on the 3rd dynamic and ignoring the 1st equals inverted dynamics.
Once I visited a lecture by Dennis. He told us about his “fights for human rights” (not for Lisa McPherson’s human rights, of course), boasted how he had handled various opponents all by himself alone, and spiced it up with a bunch of conspiracy theories. Hard to say which was true and which wasn’t – because all events he mentioned happened in remote places. But he created some impact for sure (like Jeff Pomerantz) to make the public of our org donate …
It seems that bragging time is over for Dennis. That might give him a chance to duplicate what is really going on.
That over-the-top insane fanaticism against psychiatry began to pervade CCHR and the CoS in the 1980s, I thought. Where the CoS’ dislike for psychiatry was always there, it was always done with reformation in mind, removing practices which created “physicial damage in the field of mental health”, and from the view of wisdom and “having a better way”.
In the 80s, the rhetoric against psychiatry started becoming unthinking and militant — in the 90s it became irrationally ultra-militant and lost all sense of “trying to reform” psychiatry. It eventually reached a point where even the CCHR and CoM leadership couldn’t defend the inanities that were spewing from the group. By the time it built the “Industry of Death” museum in LA in the 2000s, it had become a big indefensible joke — sucking even Tom Cruise’s career and reputation into it’s insane vortex, and destroying one of the CoM’s last hopes at ever being thought of as actually respectable and mainstream.
This is incredibly sad. Thank God that I have been out for a long enough time to re-establish myself and not be left to the the “mercy” of the C of $.
I knew a lot of people in the SO who are now older such as Claire Reppen (she has since died), James Fuller, Vic Uekerman, and Sandy Wilhere. I don’t know what has happened to them. Sandy Wilhere who is or was married to Greg Wilhere has MS and while she is still alive I can’t imagine the suffering that she is going through.
I am happy that your blog is making others aware of this issue.
It wasn’t always SOP. I remember an LRH policy stating that elderly Sea Org members were to remain in Sea Org accomodation with an allowance.
During the time from 1972 to 1982 while I was in the Sea Org my medical bills were paid without question (They were fairly minimal but were always oked without delay).
I remember in 1974 one of the engineers went psychotic when a girl he secretly admired got married.
The GO offloaded him and he ended up in a mental hospital. When LRH found out he ordered the GO to bring him back and personally C/Sed him for a couple of months until he was recovered.
The organizations became insane to the extent that LRH was off the lines.
DM is “respected” and obeyed out of fear. LRH was respected out of love and admiration.
LRH describes in the FACTORS ” the 3 Universes”.
1. The universe created by one viewpoint
2. The universe created by every other viewpoint
3. The universe created by the mutual action of viewpoints ~~ the physical universe.
Narcissist Miscavige lives only in his own Universe. (1) above.
He imposes Universe for self on every one else. He vibrates and beats the drum for his universe alone. Hence the self-preservation and money and benefits for DM at any cost.
Quote :
Dennis was living out of his car. He was washing himself in public restrooms, and was in the streets begging for food.
Unquote.
This is one of several IAS “FREEDOM Medal Winners” with a sorry tale.
On the other hand ~~
There are at least 3 Freedom medal winners that post on this blog !
Mat,
The RTC Reps – Reverse Tech Crims were created by PoB to be cold as chromed steel, thus negating any ARC or compassion which is inherent in the basically good man or person, especially a Scientologist.
Due to my post before leaving, I saw this on a crossflow whereby berthing and associations personally and socially were on a high ARC peer level, but their dealing with other lower echelon staff were as above. Total creation of the caste/status system by PoB after he took over being the top Reverse Tech Crim and placing this strata above the CMO who were above all and any SO. There is one thing in common though, all are “disposable” as Haydn correctly pointed out in his post.
You must have been suprised by the dutch courts at some point.
cold hard dutch pragmatism.
I’ve never met Deninis though despite anything he may have done this is very sad. Soldiers go to great lengths to never leave their dead or wounded on the “battle field”,
Things like honor and allegiance can never exist in a group lead by DM. DM fears alliances (even between husband and wife) due to paranoia of people “conspiring against him”, I think he works to keep people feeling isolated with their only sense of belonging being tied to forwarding the company line. You have a sense “of group and belonging” only if you are on-board – those who are not are alone with their own thoughts and hesitations.
Maybe some of the manic actions of the KA crowd (wierd reg videos, cameras on your head etc) are desperate reactions to “not-issing” what they inherently know – they are alone on an island and will be abandoned when they are no longer useful.
Oracle,
If you are referring to Hillory Clinton’s original Secret Health Care Panel.
I can tell you that the proposed bill was not nicey nicey at all and somewhat suppressive:
Like making it a felony for a doctor to treat someone who was not under his plan.
I mean screw the Hippocratic Oath!
Plus other clauses that would have made Huxley’s ‘Brave New World’ a reality.
Things are not always black and white.
In my opinion the main reason that Dennis is in the situation he is in is simply due to a total lack of compassion on the part of the entity now known as the “Church of Scientology” and whatever members are left.
An example is that nauseatingly patronizing covertly hostile email by David Pomeranz.
It’s about as far away from actual TR2 or TR4 as it gets!
Yet this is what is accepted within the so called quote Church unquote of quote Scientology unquote as quote communication unquote these days.
They have taken any concept of *help* and totally *perverted* it beyond recognition. Just as they’ve perverted the subject.
This is what happens when you stop training auditors and concentrate on auditing PCs.
Ron talked about it a long time ago in a lecture called “Training and Duplication”.
In our household we have a postulated device called the “Instant Karma Gun” which, when point it at a person, will deliver that person’s Karma right then. There is no intention of ill will, just the intention that the person’s Karma, good or bad, gets instantly fulfilled. I would love to invent that.
That said, helping someone out as a matter of kindness who has had Karma hit him in the face is not interfering with Karma, it is being a decent human being. Look, every bum on skid row has done some pretty bad things to get into that condition, but helping out one or two of them is certainly never a bad thing – and I mean help in terms of shelters, food banks, clinics, things like that. I personally have softened immeasurably over the years – after all – we are in a meat body on planet Earth, and the distance between a 6 figure income and a bum on the street is really not that far.
Sam, +1
Dennis’s plight via his own email was on ThetaNet, a list serve for “scns in good standing”. In that email he complained bitterly about the local (Hawaii) org’s and the IAS tour’s lack of communication and concern for his grave situation. A wake up call right in plain sight of those in the fold. How many of them woke up? I heard plenty of comments about Dennis being “expelled from Clearwater and Flag” and Dennis being “PTS” or even “type three”. There’s always a justifiable way to excuse callous lack of compassion. So many of those good-standing folks will find themselves in a similar plight in the near or not-so-far distant future as regards the soulless C of S.
This callow, uncaring attitude is the stock in trade of most public scns at this time. Behind the brittle facade is a real fear. Most of us are middle-aged or older, in debt and past our wage-earning prime. We are starting to experience the body problems that all aging human bodies (even the OT ones) experience. We bet the farm that auditing and training would prevent us from getting cancer, having heart attacks, breaking bones, getting in bad car accidents, losing jobs, getting divorced, being sued, being too depressed to function, etc. etc. etc. So we never invested in fall-back positions; our health, our education, our retirement, our non-scn connections. All things that many, many of us now realize was a big, big mistake. And we are scrambling to make up for lost time.
So when something like Dennis Clark and his debilitating stroke smacks us in the face its time to face up or deny, deny, deny. There’s still a lot of denial around these parts, but it is wearing thin, believe me. The problem is that we have been trained over decades not to talk to each other about the real stuff of life. SCN’s think it is entheta or bad PR to tell their closest friends they have cancer or are bankrupt. Such creates very fake, superficial relationships that can’t stand up to the slightest stress. That is why friendships, relationships, marriages and families can be gone with the wind at the merest breeze. They were not built on a real foundation of better or worse, through thick and thin. They aren’t based on real thoughts, feelings and emotions but on a mocked-up church sanctioned facade.
I really feel for Dennis Clark. Yeah, karma is a bitch and Dennis didn’t take care of his health and he neglected his other dynamics in order to do the C of S bidding. Yes he was a real asshole and acted like a bombastic lout most of the time. But I think about him in a run-down nursing home on a hot, dusty street in a big, impersonal city like Honolulu, wheel-chair bound, hardly able to speak, broke and abandoned by the institution and people he gave his life to and I feel compassion for him.
I pray that more people wake up and say NO MORE to these C of S policies, written and unwritten and reconstitute this philosophy into the compassionate refuge it’s founder intended it to be.
It seems individuals become part of a group like the C of S for one of two reasons: 1) The individual is truly interested in the study and practice of the subject with the aim of duplicating the data to the point where they own it for themselves and apply the data to their lives. 2) The individual is really looking for something to believe in, but depends upon someone to follow, a leader, to interpret the subject matter for them, with no particular desire to duplicate and own the material for themselves.
Those in group “1” can eventually become masters of the technology. They think for themselves. Perhaps early on looked to a master, but with the intention of eventually mastering the subject for themselves. (Cause)
Those in group “2” for whatever reason, never really intended to become a master of the subject, but to steadfastly continue to follow the interpretations of their leader. When LRH died, DM became their new leader, no questions asked or allowed. (Effect)
I think those who come to this board are all part of Group 1 and, at least at one time, expected that all who joined the CofS were part of this same group. I know I did. So it is frustrating when other members do not operate from this Cause viewpoint. They are the kool-aid drinkers and some will live their entire lives in this way, with the possible shift over to a new leader, but still looking to be told how to think.
Very well put, thanks.
Sam-You have the best one liners.
L is that you? If so give me a holler theoracle@ymail.com.
Great post.
The electric chair uses around 2400 volts at up to 10 amps or so to cause brain death within 15 seconds. I notice that the psych didn’t offer to subject himself to the procedure and chat with them afterwards.
Very good point, Ralph!
Exactly.
Marty-This is so sick-DM didn’t get concerned about over the top antics even if it was horrible PR-Only if it jeopardized another over the top antic that he felt was more important.
No I am not talking about Hillary Clinton’s plan.
The next time you see some one on skid row, go test his comm lag. You might be surprised to find out all the people on skid row are not the same and not what you think they are. Some of the sanest most intelligent people I have met with zero comm lag at all, have been holding a position in space away from common “must be, do, haves” for a long time.
This is not the destiny of only ex staff members but of public OTs too.
My brother in law Romano Romanini OT VIII and Opinion Leader in the area of Brescia and in the Italian Scientology field, had a big stroke in 1990 that paralized part of his left body.
He tried everything he could to regain his physical sanity but nothing worked. He was called on the ship and put trough a sort of “public” RPF, very very very downgrading. He was bad off for several years.
In more recent years he accepted, I think, his condition but never fully recovered physically or Spiritually. Was left by his wife (my sister), lost all the money he had and basically ended up pennyless and lives barely out of welfare.
Recently he was regularly visiting me at my store for regular “nattering” sessions on the Church, the Ship, Miscavige etc. you name it, he was actually the one originating it!
When me and Renata declared our Independence I showed him the declare on the computer.
He was shocked!!!!!
He since then disconnected from us.
He stays loyal to the same Church that just dumped him when he needed help.
How much kool-aid can one drink? How deep can the Church implant be?
He has nothing to gain, only maybe another “public” RPF!
So sorry.
Claudio
C – 4 of the 5 have been mentioned earlier on this blog.
Me too. They should accept the bribes and then tell everything they know.
Sorry to hear about Sandy. I remember arriving at the Apollo in 1972 and being a bit disoriented. Everyone seemed so busy with no time to even say hello to a new arrival. LRH sent Jill Goodman down to welcome me aboard.
Kima Douglas chatted with me a few minutes. When I was sitting in the aft lounge after a long train journey through Morocco, Sandy came over and made me feel welcome. Her level of ARC was what I, in my naivete at age 19, thought all OTs would have.
No, we brought him out of mothballs in the 80s.
I was training at Flag and was in the HCO phone room and there was a SO member doing tech training from one of the orgs in LA on the phone. He was in a panic and in tears trying to get something approved. I could hear both sides of the conversation and while I usually don’t “eavesdrop” it was hard not to listen because we were the ony ones in a quiet room. He had some kind of tumor and needed a biopsy and was trying to get a CSW approved. It wasnt approved the previous week so he was trying to get someone in LA to get it approved. The guy on the other line was not that interested in getting it done. He said things like “yeah, they know about it”, “There’s not much more I can do- they are in FP already…”. The guy on the phone was shaking and in tears. he was trying to be calm and assertive and get it done, but I think potentially waiting three or more weks to find out if he indeed had cancer was taking it’s toll on his emotional state.
Keepontruckin-
One of the best comments I have read in a while. I truly understand what you just wrote.
Thanks
Yes, Vic and I know that, in the Sacramento Org, CCHR office, Dennis Clark was my guidepost, especially as it came to working with the IRS.
This is indeed a sad situation.
Marty, guess what just happened? I just got a new job! I only spoke to RJ once on this blog in a whole year and bingo! new job in 24 hours? Did anybody her help or am I that good! Love it! RJ is going to flip! Something told me say hello to Marty. Hey Marty, I am glad I did buddy!
Marty,
This embraces the most disgusting aspect of the Corporate Church of Scientology Culture; discarding human “resources” once they are no longer income generating.
I have only discussed this with you in person in general terms so you know some of the story, but I am certain there are hundreds, if not thousands of examples of this around the world. Another specific example is a Dr in Dallas, a good friend, who started having siezures after finishing his power, following a 10+ year multi hundred thousand dollar attempt to go Clear. This man is one of the best examples of humanity one could hope to meet, he treated dozens of org staff for free, he was a patron, he freely helped anyone he could, including me when I was trying to build a new life out of the SO. His siezures prevented his ability to work, he is now unemployable, because he structured his business to primarily support the church, he had no signifiant personal financial or social net. He spent most of his families small inheritence trying to get himself back on track. Once he had no more money, he is not called by the org, no assists, no offers to see if anything needs repairing. He has deteriorated to the point where he can not work. None of his Scientology friends are willing to help, even call, or give assists. Any calls he gets are for money.
For the last 4 years I have been his primary means of support to the tune of many tens of thousands of dollars, nothing extravagent, just rent and food. The Corporate Church and its drones won’t even buy him lunch because he must be PTS or a downstat. Yet I am considered a bad guy by the COS, an undesirable. I have been doing this while trying to get my two kids through college and running and building a business through a global financial meltdown. The Corporate Church of Scientology treated my father the same way. There are a dozen others I know of in similar plight, and while I do what I can for as many as I can, there are so many broken people discarded that it is impossible for a few people to look after them all.
This man still wants to believe in the goodness of the COS, his belief and love of Hubbard and the tech are unshakable. I don’t have the heart to take that away from him, with his circumstances, believing in Santa is kind of a beautiful thing, but I have made it clear to him that there are several independants who would love to help him for free, no strings attached.
When I was in the COS, I honestly believed it was the most moral group on the planet. After I started opening my eyes and getting out, I was shocked at its immorality. Now I firmly believe it is amoral, interested in nothing else than its own ends … DM protecting and growing his wealth and power, staff staying alive and paying next months electric bill, public with massive blinders and focus on only improving their own status and personal bridge position with the ends of keeping the OT levels available to them.
Following his siezures, he was heavily
Been There – Your post resonates on many levels. A very real communication. I think as scientologists we are all taught to be the “strong, silent type” and not ask for help – except for help donating more money to an insatiable “church” and it’s voracious appetite for money. I think it’s because we don’t want to look like a “victim” or “downstat”. Free service equals free fall. We don’t want to be an “effect”, even when we’re down on our luck. We don’t want to be “contributed to”. However, a real church is charitable not just to the “upstats”, but to those who really need it at a time when they really need it, like the way the Glide Memorial Church helps the homeless. I think everyone should watch “The Pursuit of Happiness” movie with Will Smith. I think scientologists just think of the homeless as “degraded beings”, but this movies shows that even smart, competent people can wind up homeless.
We’re also taught not to be openly critical even when it’s valid, as we don’t want to “natter”, “third party”, “black PR”, “forward the enemy line”, etc. Thus the koolaid drinkers remain in their bubble.
I see some here as part of group one. When the Independents started out back in 1983 I sort of assumed that all the others were part of group one aswell. But so many wandered off into drinking the Kool-aid of Bill Robertson, Renee Mumford, Robin Scott and others. Very few are left practicising Scientology from those who departed the CofS around 1983.
Given a strong leadership I think that a lot more would have continued with Scientology.
The CofS will collapse within a few years and DM will be either in his orange suit or hiding in Bulgravia with lots of bodyguards.
LRH said that a benevolent monarchy was the best form of government but suffered from the problem of succession as we have seen with DM.
The next best choice seems to be a republic wherein a strong leader is supported by an elected house and a senate who also act as a check in case the leader gets outs of control.
See HCOB 17 March 1969 for LRH’s statements on the subject.
Is there any choice but for Scientology to become a Religious Republic?
Yes – and how crazy is that? Someone “is PTS” – so kick him to the curb. Back in the day, we would help the person handle the PTSness.
The illegal PC policies and drug revert policies and other policies of their ilk, as practiced by Mr. David Miscavige’s gang, are an admission that their brand of “Scientology” does not work. After all, one would expect that people could handle PTSness. They could handle their drug case. After years on staff, one would expect a Scientologist to be a star and an experienced pro – and yet, many are RPFed for 7-10 years and then off-loaded. The very idea of a multi-year RPF is as squirrel as it comes! As is the idea of multi-intensive “eligibility” cycles.
Add to that the fact – the FACT – that OT’s are routinely send back for lower-level actions, and the admission that they are incompetent intensifies. Incompetence of this scale is not a matter of making a mistake or two, it is a matter of systemic inability to apply Scientology.
The so-called “Squirrel Busters” are justifying their actions by trying to paint Marty as doing squirrel auditing. The freaking NERVE. First, to justify their idiotic “I’m on a Boat” activities in any way. But, primarily, they are feigning concern about one man in Texas auditing people when their whole apparatus screams out tech. And, of course, out admin and inevitably out ethics as well.
Sam = Wise Woman
Glad I could help Larry 🙂
Ralph, Exactly!
The dispassionate pile of crap that is the church continues to grow with each passing day. My good friend Michael Mendelsohn had liver cancer. He was mid OT VII and was getting auditing at AOLA to see if the cancer could be stopped or mitigated or whatever. His hours ran out and that was the end of that. Medically he was diagnosed as “terminal” by the oncologist at the City of Hope Medical Center. (I was there when he got the news).A couple of other peope and myself were giving him assists, helping him with shopping etc. Then he was literally thrown out of his house by his “Scientologist” wife Jacqui. Evidentally their finances and medical insurance had been exhausted by other therapies, diets etc., Nothing worked and his tumors continued to grow. He was now living in one small room in someone’s (not a church member) house. No one from the official church, or his wife, gave a rat’s ass about him. The living conditions during the summer months in that room were abominable. Joy and I decided he needed to be moved and be taken care of on a daily basis, since he was growing weaker by the day. Michael gave Joy medical power of attorney so she could find out specific information regarding his condition. Once we knew he was “terminal” we tried to find a facility that would take him. The only place we found was a live-in hospice in Long Beach, where, Joy, a friend, Cathy Segal Garcia, and I moved him. As he grew progressively worse, we asked a terminal at Flag to provide an end of life program, which they did. I began to administer it and was able to consult with Flag about it. In the end it got to be too stressful for me and Stan Gerson finished the program. Michael died a few weeks later. The many months before he was moved to the hospice, he relied on the State for food and what little care Medical provided. The Church did nothing, and seemed to care less, aside from a wonderful staff member at Flag who had overseen end of life cycles before. As I stated, Michael was mid OT VII, had done KTL/LOC, among other training and had produced several successful events for the Church. But when the money and the hours ran out the door was closed.
As I was writing the above, another piece of disgusting news arrived. Joy and I have been patients of Dr. Lisa Benest, Dermatologist, for over 10 years. We have gone to her and her colleague Dr. Rush, many, many times for dermatological issues and check-ups. Today I had something of an emergency and called to see Dr. Rush. I was told there was no available opening until September. Being a long time patient in good standing I pressed the issue and was told by the receptionist that she would speak personally to Dr. Rush and see if I could be brought in immediately. She called back to say I could be seen by Dr. Rush on Thursday morning, but the call was abruptly cut off. When I finally got back in touch with the office I was told by another person that I would have to make an appointment with another referred dermatologist out side their office. I said no and hung up. Joy had come over and I told her what had happened. she called the office , and tigress that she is, pulled the string and found that Dr. Benest, a Scientologist, had inserted a note in the computer alongside my name and Joy’s name, that we were to be referred elsewhere for services. There was no explanation. But I know what the explanation is as do all of us here. What the FUCK? We are witnessing the Church of Miscavige’s version of Nazi Germany!, South African apartheid and the segregated, bigoted American South. THIS MUST END!
Well, yes, there are some who may classify as “hobos” – intelligent drop outs, perhaps more now than usual due to this crazy economy. And there a lot of folks who got caught in this depression and ended up homeless – lost their job, whatever. But, most of the bums I knew around downtown LA and skid row were drunks and addicts. In any event, no one deserves to be forced to live in these conditions, and it happens all too often.
Hey man – that is awesome!
Okay so what was he doing before he was mothballed Marty?
I could have sworn he was the spokesman when we had the SMERSH Festival (WFMH Protests) in ’77.
I think that many of us, getting into our later years, are realizing that our bodies get old and decay.
I heard an LRH lecture wherein LRH said that our bodies should last several hundred years with good auditing and at the age of 19 I believed it.
LRH was an eternal optimist.
Back then thought I would achieve stable exteriorization with full perceptics in 10 years or so. Now I see that LRH didn’t achieve it nor has any other Scientologist.
Some have keyed out into that state temporarily.
But I do see that I have made progress toward that state and see it as something that will possibly take many lifetimes to achieve.
You forgot to mention: Let’s get the uptone more downtone and the upstats thus more downstat…..so we can sell them more sec checks and cave them in completely……to be made slaves of permanently.I have seen it!
WH,
“Perhaps he will now have an opportunity to reflect on his life and move on up.”
I remember Dennis. I hope he can still read the following:
“It is utterly impossible
To reach by walking the world’s end;
But none escape from suffering
Unless the world’s end has been reached.
It is a Sage, a knower of the world,
Who gets to the world’s end, and it is he
By whom the holy life has been lived out;
In knowing the world’s end he is at peace
And hopes for neither this world nor the next.”
The Buddha, The Blessed One
SN 2:36; AN 4:46
Much loving-kindness
GMW
I agree GG, he certainly deserved better than what he got in the church.
But then again, so did we all…
“There are at least 3 Freedom medal winners that post on this blog !”
That’s headline news.
This post re bobo’s remarks on disposable individuals adn how to get them there…..You forgot to mention: Let’s get the uptone more downtone and the upstats thus more downstat…..so we can sell them more sec checks and cave them in completely……to be made slaves of permanently.I have seen it!
“Home is where your heart’s on fire, and where that restless snowbird melts away.” 🙂
I needed a music break anyway…
Well Okay,
Yeah unfortunately I knew some of the neocon slime balls behind that charade.
Ya know the usual suspects like Jensen and his Stepford Wife, Quigley, Wiseman, Burke and all the other jack booted fascist thugs that have pretty much hijacked the Church with their peanut PNAC mentality.
Along with their megalomanic grandiose plan to make George Bush some kinda Constantine.
True FODs who probably gave CIA pointers on how to torture and get away with it.
They’re part of the reason I got the fuck outta Dodge
I want to share with you lovely people here what I just posted on Facebook!
Another heinous example of religious discrimination: Michael Fairman and I have been patients the Dr. Lisa Benest Dermatology office for well over 10 years. We have been treated by the wonderful Dr Rush. Lisa Benest is a Scientologist and she owns the practice, I don’t know what Dr Rush’s religion is.
Today Michael called to make an appointment and was told she was booked until Sept. As we have been long time patients, he asked if they could please squeeze him in before that. He was put on hold and the receptionist, Tiffany spoke to Dr. Rush personally. She came back on the line and told Michael, yes, she will see him in 2 days -Thursday at 10 am. Then the phone was disconnected abruptly. He called back and another woman told him that he couldn’t be seen and gave him a referral. He said didn’t want to see someone else in another office and argued he loved Dr. Rush. The woman said that this was how it had to be.
Then I called back the office and spoke to Blue and she told me there was a note in the computer from Dr Benest stating Michael Fairman could no longer be seen by her office and was to be referred elsewhere.
I then called her back to see if my name and my daughter’s name were also to be “referred” and she put me on hold and came back on and said, “yes, you will have to be treated elsewhere. Your daughter, I’m not sure…”
The only logical reason for this is that although we still consider ourselves Scientologists, Michael and I are no longer a members of the “church” of Scientology. We believe the church has become entirely corrupt, as is evidenced by yet another example of the “disconnection policy”, and the severing of relationships by threat of the “church” to those who refuse to disconnect from people who have every right to their own personal religious choices.
L. Ron Hubbard said that “…communication is the universal solvent…” but the church doesn’t allow communication with anyone that disagrees or doesn’t march in lock-step with their doctrines.
DISGUSTING and illegal.
I would also like to add to my previous post that Michael and I have the best medical insurance there is, have paid every bill early, do not owe a dime to them and had a wonderful rapport with everyone in that office. So there is absolutely no other reason to refuse service to us other than for our religious beliefs. Period.
Michael, Wow, my love and respect to you and your wife. See my post immediately above, I am sure there are more of us than we realize.
If you want my money and you think I’m sexy
come on Baby do non E…..
Find out what is wanted find out what is needed
route the dispatch straight to me.
Some new form of religious mating ritual………. that’s all.
Hey GH,
Ya ever watch the movie “The Caveman’s Valentine”?
Or read Baldacci’s book ‘The Camel Club’?
Some of these homeless people are pretty hip.
Not “DBs” at all.
We had several of them watching our back when the Church or somebody put us under surveillance.
HERE’S AN EXAMPLE JACKIE; JENNY SUE ALEXANDER, ONCE ENTRUSTED AS THE TUTOR OF LRH’S GRANDDAUGHTER.
Ralph –
“Now I see that LRH didn’t achieve it nor has any other Scientologist.”
It can be true for you by all means, but this is speculation, opinion and evaluation. Did you ask LRH (or for that matter every other Scientologists) if this was the case? If not then you can only speak for your own reality and not that of others.
Marty,
What you said in this post “We’ll be there for them as we were for Dennis”
shows what a COMPASSIONATE and THETA group WE ARE!!!
Ditto 😦
Margaret, those are good points you make. I would add that since organized psychiatry attacked dianetics and scientology, it was SOP to investigate them and CCHR was the public voice of that. And there was plenty wrong with psychiatry as a disciple. I recall in the 70’s when “One flew over the cuckoos nest” came out and the movie was used as a tool to attack the dangerous uses of pschiatry in a state controlled setting. And the fact that their orthodoxy denied the spirituality of man as part of his treatment. I think that over the last 30-40 years there has begun to be a more wholistic approach to mental health in this country. I say begun, as it has a long way to go. There is still overmedication and the institutional link between the courts and psychiatry. But the field of institutional or orthodox psychiatry has taken a pretty good beating in the field of public opinion. I believe college curriculums have evolved. We played some role in that but its been marginalized by the blind excesses you referred to in more recent years. And where scientology could have become more of a respected philosophy and practice, the church lost its way, became blindly excessive and currently both institutions are loathed. There are lessons to be learned in hindsight. And going forward a growing independent field will no doubt add greatly to the wholistic approach in mental health which embraces man’s spirituality as needing to be addressed. I would suggest scientology take a place humbly alongside the others actively seeking to better conditions. In fact humility may be more of a neccessity than an option. The results will speak for themselves and scientology will be elevated to the level or respect it warrants. Walk softly but carry a big stick.
Thank you Sinar….It is hard to keep up with all the people leaving DM these days….hehehehehe.
I don’t know Dennis at all, though he apparently did punch someone at a rally. Now there’s OT.
However, my first husband died of a stroke, and his first symptom was hemiparesis (loss of strength on one side), so I have some empathy for Dennis’s situation. It’s unfortunately a really long-term problem, with long-term rehab, and there are some really good medications that can help regrow nerves. The CofM would class them as “psych drugs,” though — not that he’s going to be able to buy services in his current predicament.
Plus, because he’s “downstat,” it’ll be totally okay to be ripped off of four hundred grand, as it’s obviously more pro-survival to invest that in a shiny new org building instead, right? (That’s sarcasm.)
I can’t help but think there’s a lot of cosmic irony in Dennis’s situation: the people and things that can most help him are indies, non-Scns, and medications he’s railed against for years. Sometimes, ya gotta love the universe’s sense of humor.
I say this speaking as someone whose life was vastly improved by using the medications the body needed and not worrying about how other people labeled them….
Sandy was one of the best C/Ses I ever worked for.
As Senior C/S at AOLA she pretty much made sure that any case whether it was public or staff got *handled*.
She’s another casualty of the Golden Age of Technical Perversion and alteration.
The organizations became insane to the extent that LRH was off the lines.
DM is “respected” and obeyed out of fear.
LRH was respected out of love and admiration.
Thanks, ralph.
That says it all.
Freeloader Church is Freeloading
Been There,
Your post really resonates with me.
I thought I’d follow it with an appropiate tune:
One of the refrains about being immortal for a limited time should suffice:
Ralph,
Whether Ron thought a Monarchy was a good thing or not doesn’t matter.
The fact is that he set up a relatively democratic system under the Advisory Council PLs
The fact that most Scientologists have never read them and blindly accept Miscavige’s false and fraudulent “leadership” is a testament to the ignorance that prevails within the organization these days.
The blind leading the blind has become a self fulfilling prophecy.
You are a kind and decent man Michael. II was unaware of this act of kindness, but I know of many others. It isnt part of the POB program to have anyone involved in his cult that either has a heart or a conscience, nor anyone that can think for themselves. Nobody I know wants to have anything to do with that sort of group…
This was in 2001
Claudio — That is really sad. I hope he comes to his senses sooner rather than later. If he recognizes the outnesses, it isnt going to be long before the vulture culture do something that tips him over the edge and he is then able to avail himself of some real help, because if he has no money he is getting nada from the “church.”
“The Church has been in “must be contributed to” for a long time now.”
Wow. That is a brilliant way to phrase it.
GH, very nicely presented.
LOL
I have a question. With these long-time Scientologists at the highest levels of the Bridge dying off in one way or another, have any of them actually achieved Total Freedom, as promised? How would we know? It would be a bummer to seek that all of your life only to go back through the birth-death-birth cycle again. Marty, perhaps you can give some insight. It may be too late for me, but I do wish this for my still-Scientologist brother.
Wasn’t Heber the main spokesman for all things PR and psych in the late 70s?
“And, there is the fact that the body decays, period. It just does, no matter what you do.”
Amen. I’m not my body, but I’m aware that it’s more limited than it used to be, and that trend will generally continue. And then it won’t. Telomeres will eventually run out and the cells will no longer be able to divide, etc.
Ron wrote a lot of his stuff about how theta-body interactions should work when he was young. I’ve sometimes wonder how different it might have been had he started writing about that when he was 60.
I also have someone I’ve known for over 20 years who is ‘died in the wool’ faithful to the church. He was recently BRAGGING to me (when I tried yet again enlighten him on what’s really going on in the “church”) that despite the fact that not ONE Scientologist came to his financial aid when he was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, he knew he was on the right path with the right team because -the flow came back to him through other people, Christians, wogs (his word, not mine!)…- something like this. He “knew” that because he flowed to the church – the flow was coming back to him from the “Universe” because he flowed to the right cause – mankind’s salvation… Ummmm… is anyone even following this logic? I tried to kindly and gently indicate to him that to the “group” he was now “PTS” and no longer viable or valuable and therefore not important enough to “flow to”… Like a contagious disease that they have to distance themselves from…but alas…he is taking his Kool-aid intra-veniously now, or so it seems.
Can you IMAGINE??? BRAGGING about this?
Hi Sam,
I have met many Scientologists who claimed to have good exterior perceptics.
When I asked them to provide evidence they either ran off or accused me of invalidating their case state.
What is true for you is true for you works for subjective states. If someone wants to walk into the realm of OT then they have to demonstrate it.
One Class 12 proclaimed that his PC was exterior with full perceptics and when I asked that his PC tell me what some simple things about the room I was in he accused me of being 1.1
Exterior with full perceptics means that you, as a thetan, have a clear perception of the environment without a body.
A being, having achieved that state, could descibe in detail the room I am in.
Its great that people achieve exterior states with good perception. I have only seen on a couple of occasions demonstrations of that state and both were transient.
I have no wish to invalidate case gain.
However if people claim that they have OT states such as ext with full perceptics then I do not accept that without evidence.
I met LRH and know that he did not stably have that state.
For many “Ext with full percetion” seems to be the Holy Grail.
I think it is eventualy achievable bit I have yet to see it.
Joy, they made a “big” mistake, big, huge”!
I can attest to that too. We used to have IAS crush reg cycles at AOLA where we would block any exit from the atrium and then those “case gain” cycles would start. Funny thing many of the people that showed up only came for the “free” food. Cost them thousands.
Yes, your frustration is shared. It is incredible that such glaring outpoints exist within their group yet they suck it all up. Their desire and goal to be effect runs very deep in their cases. As I see it, the kick in the head has occurred hard enough yet for them to notice they are being lead up the garden path to oblivion.
It does take a brave soul to step out of line, yet being knowingly brave probably has nothing to do with it. Truth is a slippery fish that fights hard to to get back into the depths of the unknown. I’m not sure what the rest of you all think but I highly value my knowingness for not only following what is real to me but also creating what is real to me. Perhaps that is why an honestly kept statistic is so important, because trying make sense and give understanding to non productive actions explained away with lies and deception goes goes round and down, round and down & round and down. insanity is a good word for it but it covers such a vast vista.
theoracle, love Al Jarreau, have all his CD’s.
Thanks IEG. Yes DM will reap what he sows but the quicker the better. He’s a dangerous SOB.
Tally Ho…
I’d also like to add that postulates, considerations and opinions are senior to mechanics and that function monitors structure.
I can say that I am in better shape physically in many ways then when I was a teenager due to Scientology *training* and auditing.
So true we are not physically immortal like say Highlander or something like that.
The fact is that not just through Scientology but with nutrients and vitamins that are available these days suffering through “old age” can be a thing of the past.
I’m not saying that what happened to Dennis and other Scientologists isn’t sad.
But I think that it is an error to go into total agreement with becoming feeble in both mind and body just because you reach a certain age.
And on that note:
http://vodpod.com/watch/480038-bob-dylan-forever-youngfrom-the-last-waltz
From a guy who’s 70 and still doing concerts.
🙂
You get what you give.
Jethro and M Rinder
I know this may not be popular but I actually did have a significant case change when I gave a large (for me) amount of money to Vic, IAS reg at Flag. I am certain that it had nothing at all to do with the 4th Dynamic, or figuring I had helped whatever it was regged for. ( I believe it was supposed to be for translations into Russian or something)
The reason I had a big win was that giving that much money away, with no expected return, was something that was “totally out of character” for me, and I went exterior from some “beingness” or valence I had been fixed into, and then quite exterior altogether. I was a totally different person. I was so exterior that even the disaster of “out tech services” I then had “delivered”, could not punch me back “in” for more that an hour or so, and then I would bounce back “out.” I was the most like the being I want to be, at that time, than I had ever experienced before, and I had had some pretty phenomenal wins and case state changes from earlier auditing.
And so, in conclusion, even though it happened as I have described, I really do not think that it even had anything to do with money either. It was just that I had done something, anything, by my own determinism, that was so totally “out of character” that I had exteriorized from a fixed beingness. (and I have never re-adopted the earlier beingness.)
That’s my story, and I’m “stickin wit it”.
Eric S
Funny, because that is exactly what LRH said, somewhere.
I should add that some are now advertising, as Independent Scientologists, that they can deliver such states.
As far as I am concerned they are full of shit and seeking to line their pockets.
Put a 6 digit number on your wall and ask them to tell you the number.
What I know at the moment is that I can help people achieve greater states in their own estimation. Objectively provable states are much later and only achievable with a hell of a lot of work.
Mike
I bless your compassion for this man. and that you obviously had for your father. I know the stress and frustration of seeing good people discarded. Those who rule the church and many of its adherents have lost their way in this regard. Their “compassion” seems to be be for PR purposes only. There is no depth of understanding. It is a travesty that they call themselves spiritual or religious in any way, shaoe or form. It is truly physically and emotionally sickening.
I saw three older staff members die while at AOLA. That was in a year. Susan the SSO at the time offered them no medical help. One of them was Enid Byrnes a reg that made millions for AOLA. I remember when I first started on staff she was bright and cheery and doing really well. She deteriorated so fast it was scarey. My question. How does an OT6 die of cancer.
I agree with you Ralph.
Michael, Doctors (in California) are not allowed to use their religious beliefs in determining which patients they may or may not treat. This has gone all the way up to the California Supreme Court. I would file a complaint with the California licensing authority for dermatologists. She is violating the most sacred oath a doctor has.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/19/local/me-supreme19
I don’t have a problem with the idea that this body will die and that I will continue.
You have an infinity of lifetimes as does your brother.
I went to an old master of Aikido. He taught me a lot but nothing compared to what I learnt from LRH.
I have learnt that Death is no problem and that I will come back.
Hi Dean;
I audited for Sandy for years at AO, and Vic was in qual for quite some time. Sandy was a very good C/S, always ready with a word of encourgement. Vic was always there to help. He gave me some sessions years ago, while he was also juggling his visa problems.
People like these should be able to ‘retire’, or whatever, near a beach or something. Their bodies should be well taken care of so then can easily slide from one life to another.
I agree! Nice, GH.
I wish I knew who they were.
I hate to say it, but if they were truly Freedom medal calibre they would denounce mud cabbage openly if they haven’t, then I would say we could give them another medal or at least they would qualify to keep the one they have.
I have much respect for someone who honestly could acheive such a validation.
Finally found the actual ruling, which is specific to gay rights, but there are many other cases referenced, and this quotation is most applicable:
“Accordingly, the First Amendment’s right to the free exercise of religion does not exempt defendant physicians here from conforming their conduct to the Act’s antidiscrimination requirements even if compliance poses an incidental conflict with defendants’ religious beliefs.”
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1291204.html
A good antedode to the Enemies List a few weeks ago. I think I figured out the 4 referenced names.
Hi Oracle,
I couldn’t resist….
Hi Claudio,
That is truly sad and mind numbing bot-ism.
You have lots of friends, I am sure you know that.
🙂
Mike Laws, you are a kind and caring man.When I hear this story and there are many my heart hurts. This crap that comes out of their mouths about “he/she is PTS, a DB, etc” is only something a moron would say. I thank you for your generosity.
Pretty much.
But he was President of CSC and later CSI.
From what I remember Dennis was CCHR exclusively but then I could have two or incidents confused which is why I asked?
The late 70’s and early 80’s was a pretty confusing time period for Scientology
I mean how do you think we got stuck with the fixed aberrated stable datum and seething mass of false purposes like His Satanic Majesty?
Dean,
Sandy W, has been reduced to an auditor at CTO WUS, never allowed to go back to Int, just like Charlie Rush, Nancy Vaughn, and several others (Hansuli, now added to the list). Lisa Hamilton will tell you many more horror stories of the ederley, esp those from INT.
I have discussed this with a colleage. In the 1950ties American Psychiatry was an instrument to create “normalcy”
It was a time for the white american, damned if you were anything else than that at that time.
In my country Psychiatry followed a different road
Hi Michael,
Wouldn’t that be against the law? I would think that religious discrimination for not giving medical aid would go against the Socratic code and also the laws of the land.
Yeah I remember that bull shit line.
A total tech degrade and suppressive false datum perpetrated by the NCGs of the IAS.
Don,
“You have a sense ‘of group and belonging’ only if you are on-board …”
That is so perfectly stated!
I was very ill for a year; nearly died. When I became sick and stopped working (i.e., no longer a cash cow), interest from the org and on-lines “friends” dried up–no assists, no review, nada. The real support came from my non-Scientology family and friends, who made sure I stayed alive. And they were appalled by the lack of concern displayed by my “church.” How do you explain that your “church” only loves you if you are paying? It was embarrassing to say the least.
To the SQB’s: Unless you face reality, you too will be thrown under the bus. No amount of harassment or force will change that fact. Read the Creed; apply it.
Un-f#$&ing-believable!!
Sounds like a desperate attempt to have it all make sense.
It should really stand for *I* *A*m *S*uppressive.
Well, he was 60 in 1973, about the same time wrote the HCOBs on Sugar and The Theory of the Natural Diet. Man! The Sugar HCOB (what was it called again?) sure created a stir in our mission. I was thirteen, and sugar was banned?
Interesting anecdote – all around the Pac base and other orgs, there were no deserts, no sugary stuff save for honey. Then I went to flag (in 1977). Lots of sugar, ice cream, and things like that. Hmmm.
Yeah I was there when Jail Bird Jan took over and mapped that route to total inanity and irrelevance.
Thankfully she fired my sorry ass 🙂
Not just dead beat Int bots but I had a friend who was pretty high up in the Narconon hierarchy who was paid a tidy 6 figures to stfu and go away.
THIS IS WHY
Brilliant!
This is usually read at weddings, but its true power comes from seeing how universal that is as a truth and how it applies to all of life.
reges are basicly whores.
I am not talking about prostitutes.
People first
Oh believe you me. He will be the prettiest gi…..boy in jail.
Mike Laws – you are a wonderful man.
+1
Hi Joy,
I remember you from when I was public at CC Int. You were then and are now an OL for me. Thanks for coming out and posting.
Boy oh boy. You are jackin’ the T/A here, Marty. Thanks for that.
For myself, you are supporting the nagging feeling I’ve had since I began my journey to recognize and travel the rabbit hole.
I have earlier apologized for being an enabler of the IAS. This brings it home all too well.
For those who have known me while a member in good standing, I never made an issue of my IAS contributions. Even while I contributed what would become over $400K, I knew it was an unusual solution. Yet I would not stop. I had it all justified on the basis of the Aims of Scientology. For that, I am right and stick by my original decision. However, the held down 7 of Dianetics applied and applies. In spades, it applies. And in that I am wrong, oh, so wrong.
I was given sufficient data to justify both the IAS reges actions as well as my own. By the way, the last contribution I made was about 2004. Just to put this on the time track.
Yes, I have asked for a refund. It was denied, so further actions are required.
Now, I did some things and was involved in some things that were absolutely phenomenally good, I think. The Berlin March was an experience. The Freedom Crusade in Germany was another. I met some folks, quite impressive and admirable at the time. For the most part, there are or were a slew of harmonics to those of y’all, Marty, Mike, and others who chose to do what you did even though it supported the reptile in charge.
Since my mama and daddy did not raise a fool, when I learned of a more complete scene, I took what action I could to move to a more appropriate position. Repair of Past Ethics Conditions applies regardless of what it’s called wherever it’s recognized.
And here we are, y’all, me, and the rest of this motley crew. A helluva bunch we make. We may not have needed a leader, but we sure needed some light and some stable data to allow us to correct prior misunderstandings.
That’s a thank you for what y’all have done and continue to do to correct the travesty to date of life in this universe, IMHO.
Bruce Pratt
Indies > RCS. Period.
James Fuller as far as know is still on post at ASHO as an FES’er and on a reduced schedule.
LOLOL!!!
Ralph you should read the PAB 24 16 April 1954 entitled the ‘Certainty of Exteriorization’ and apply the Auditors Code in regard to exteriorization.
HCOPL ‘Counter Espionage’.
Sorry to hear about Michael. I remember him as a public when I was on staff and he was an uptone guy.
I was in comm with Dennis a couple of years ago. At the time he was sending out emails on the Razzline (an L.A. based Scn email forwarding line) for months advocating taking massive doses of vitamin D-3 (up to 50,000 IU/day) to cure all of your ills.
I got in comm with him and sent him some CDC statistics and data from medical literature detailing how dangerous this was. The literature chronicled numerous severe heath consequences that were induced by vitamin D-3 overdose, including cerebral strokes and death.
In response, he became viciously critical of me and the data I sent him, assuring me that he had been taking 50K I.U. per day until he was right as rain and was now on a “maintenance dose” of 10,000 I.U./day. He added that if I was stupid enough to believe data from the psychs and medicos, then I was beyond his help.
That’s the problem with the Gelded Age of Miscavige. No one in the C of S can have being wrong anymore.
Haydn,
So true. And I was there with you and observed the same thing. I was working in Mimeo one day, and happened upon an issue that struck my interest.
It was a program that was being run by CMO IXU (International Extension Unit) in Los Angeles to weed out all of the “deadwood” Sea Org members from middle management. It literally referred to them as “deadwood”. There was a list with all of the names of Sea Org members who were either to be booted, or somehow handled, but mostly booted as they were considered trash and dev-t.
Many of the people on the list were long term veterans who had been in the SO for more than 20 or 30 years, and some for 10 or 15. I was shocked and horrified.
Then there was the growing pile of SO members wanting to leave everyday. The group routing out that Haydn and I eventually joined had about 20 or more people in it, at all times. When one would leave another one or two would arrive into the “leaving” group and it seemed like an endless exodus.
Sea Org members became meaningless and useless despite their unbelievable competence and experience.
Most of my friends from my generation of joining the SO (the early 90’s) were in for at least 15 years, and were trained and very experienced by them. They’ve all left. They are still drinking the kool-aide, but they were 100% wasted by the SO.
as a Sea Org member you don’t qualify for social security either. So you can’t rely on the government either. You could get medicaid but that would be it.
well said, it was always group 2 that I just could not get my wits around!
Depending upon one’s viewpoint — it’s the body dying of cancer, not the OT. Yeah, yeah, I know it’s not supposed to be possible.
The truth of the Church of Scientology: “But when the money and the hours ran out the door was closed.”
Of course the doors close when the money and the hours run out. Read the heartbreaking Diary of a dying Scientologist OT7: http://www.xenu.net/archive/photoalbum/jaquier.html
*****
In so many ways, the Church of Scientology is a Giant Almost:
* It almost gets people enlightened
* It almost helps people
* It almost tell the truth some of the time
On the other hand, The Church of Scientology delivers:
* It delivers cruelty
* It delivers bankruptcy or serious financial loss to many of its members
* It delivers Disconnection
* It delivers insane robot OT 8’s like John Allender, Rex Fowler, Ed Bryan, and the cackling George Ballie
******
The critics have cataloged at least a dozen OT 8’s that have apparently gone Type III after Freewinds advanced auditing – Only we don’t call it Type III when the words “batshit crazy” better describe the EP of Freewinds auditing.
/////
I can’t remember the whole thing, but found this on a web page:
“Sugar is a deceptive thing.”
“Sugar, that is supposed ‘to produce energy’ does so only at the expense of physical health for sugar does not build up a body, it only burns it up.”
“The result of a heavy intake of sugar and carbohydrates* is to feel tired all the time-no pep.”
“If one is going to run a car, he has to feed it the right fuel and oil. If one is going to run a body it has to be fed the right food and that has to include protein.”
“By eating your hamburger and vegetables and leaving alone the candy bars and cokes, you will begin to build up a head of steam.” — L. Ron Hubbard
Sounds like I remember (though I never gave up sugar in the CofS, big mistake). You know what? He was right about that. Ever since my husband and I read Michael Pollan’s book “In Defense of Food,” our eating has changed significantly.
WW
I don’t think you are the only one who had that kind of experience. Back in earlier days I think the reges and public were even more convinced (since it was plausible in that day) that we were “protecting Scientology forever”. I myself had terrific case gain going to the limit “at grave personal risk”, and I think the group experience of postulating Scientology going on into the future in a safe environment may have contributed to our persistence today – the genuine dedication we can only now safely express outside the church.
There are many of us on this independent line that did contribute to the limit, fully believing at the time we did it, that it was vitally needed – we put that postulate into the physical universe with that bold action, and now the universe is going to be paying it back (the beautiful karma of “paying it forward”).
This would particularly apply to staff and public who sacrificed before the glaring outpoints of today emerged in-your-face that “OTVIIIs”, other status-donors, and OTAs so blissfully ignore.
The real, knowing and avowed enemy of Scientology has, by fraudulently collecting up our hard-earned MEST, pulled in one of the most vicious future existences imaginable, while we on the other end, are really going to walk on out of the trap. In fact, he may eventually be found to be the last one in it.
I am proud of my sincerely made contributions, but I so appreciate those who helped me awaken and understand the WHY for my state of misery and confusion on staff in direct contradiction of 12 years or more of heroic service and self-sacrifice – another disposable farmhorse. But I am now enjoying the benefit of getting my case truly advancing, while calmly, coldly, workmanlike, springing my buddies out of the trap crafted for them by the evil one.
Undetected.
Inspired by “God’s Smuggler”. Harriet Tubman. The Dutch Ten Booms working in the Nazi era. May I live up to one one-thousandth of their bravery and daring under earlier reigns of evil.
The Lord works in mysterious ways for those called “according to his purposes”.
And I’ll keep right on working on Dennis Clarke.
Thank you Marty – your generosity, kindness and example of the middle path out of the hell we’ve been living through to keep LRH’s legacy there.
Applicable LRH quote: “The essence of all spiritual life is to assist those too weak to help themselves. Scientology helps people to help one another. This is the message of all prophets in all ages: Help one another. It is the formula for life that cannot fail. It is the message of Scientology.” LRH Lecture 13 Feb 1958 Other Processes, the Help Button. Sounds good to me as an operating principle; just think if it were being applied by the “Church”.
You shoulda told Denis that Ron in his book Clear Body Clear Mind and the Purif HCOB says that high doses of D are highly toxic as well.
On a different note Ron also says that marijuana is useful for neurosis in Bk I and when I pointed this out I was accused of having mis us.
Never mind what happened to me when I recommended that Miscavige should be comm eved for committing blatant Suppressive acts 🙂
The Church’s new motto:
Don’t confuse me with tech or policy!
Nuff said.
Michael: You may, or may not, want to take a look at California Civil Code § 51,
California Civil Code § 51
Unruh Civil Rights Act; equal rights; business establishments; violation
(a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Unruh Civil Rights Act.
(b) All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, marital status, or sexual orientation are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever.
(c) This section shall not be construed to confer any right or privilege on a person that is conditioned or limited by law or that is applicable alike to persons of every sex, color, race, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, marital status, or sexual orientation.
(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require any construction, alteration, repair, structural or otherwise, or modification of any sort whatsoever, beyond that construction, alteration, repair, or modification that is otherwise required by other provisions of law, to any new or existing establishment, facility, building, improvement, or any other structure, nor shall anything in this section be construed to augment, restrict, or alter in any way the authority of the State Architect to require construction, alteration, repair, or modifications that the State Architect otherwise possesses pursuant to other laws.
(e) For purposes of this section:
(1) “Disability” means any mental or physical disability as defined in Sections 12926 and 12926.1 of the Government Code.
(2) “Medical condition” has the same meaning as defined in subdivision (h) of Section 12926 of the Government Code.
(3) “Religion” includes all aspects of religious belief, observance, and practice.
(4) “Sex” has the same meaning as defined in subdivision (p) of Section 12926 of the Government Code.
(5) “Sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, marital status, or sexual orientation” includes a perception that the person has any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories or that the person is associated with a person who has, or is perceived to have, any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories.
(6) “Sexual orientation” has the same meaning as defined in subdivision (q) of Section 12926 of the Government Code.
(f) A violation of the right of any individual under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-336) shall also constitute a violation of this section.
Yes RJ – quite a list of “disposables”
*the Saint Hill Staff of LRH’s original Saint Hill Size Org of “Kha Khans” – most declared SP
*Class XIIs personally trained by LRH – many declared SPs
*Field Auditors, including LRH-era VIIIs, run out of practice, or harassed into limited reach
*any Sea Org member all the way up to Loyal Officer or Captain, that “couldn’t make it” or wouldn’t be permitted to “make it”, for whatever reason
Mary Sue’s treatment and blunt invalidation makes my blood run cold. She took some 7 years or so I remember, of imprisonment to “save our religion” and died alone of cancer, her every move continually watched by live-in spies hand-picked by DM from 1986 to 2002.
DISPOSABLE!
Yes, Dennis is indeed just “late on the chain” – very good point.
Nice, inspiring message!
It aligns with criminality, Havingness scale:
http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm
Those moments of change in our lives are powerful regardless of what triggered that moment.
Thank you Mike
Scott,
Interesting, I do agree with you and he might have damaged his own body with this altered importance.
Too bad he didn’t look up the LRH data on this, nor the nutritionist recommended. Not sure on the reference or if it was in an advice, but LRH states that massive amounts ingested of one or two creates a shortage on the others – which makes logical sense by itself. 50K IU per day is over 1 gram and beyond the toxicity levels of D Vitamins. As D is not water soluble such as a vitamin C, it is harder for the body to get rid of excess especially in overdoses.
I had to study – star rate check out and Method 4 word clear a couple of Adele Davis’ books on nutrition & vitamins which LRH considered very good, back in ’79 for hatting and that data has served me very well.
Watchful Navigator, wow nicely stated.
Maybe he (Dennis) was sellin’ the stuff.
In the Church of Scientology, the WHY is money.
Michael and Joy-These are people implanted to the point of being able to disconnect from their own children ! I am so sorry you had to experience this BS. Maybe we can picket their office!
The PEP bulletin.
Lookin, You couldn’t have left on a better note!
Thank you!!!!!!
Interesting conundrum, exterior with “full perceptions”. When I first heard this, I expected something like I would see and hear and feel things the same way I “normally” do, in the body, except that I would be a few feet above the body. Same vision, same hearing, at least.
When I went exterior the first time, I had no idea what was going on. I was just everywhere. I was bigger than the room. The second time, I looked up at an air conditioning register in the ceiling, and I could perceive myself looking at me from the register – but, again, it was not like there were a couple of eyeballs in the register with me attached to them.
I loved riding motor cycles, but I noticed a weird phenomenon. When I rode the Santa Monica freeway and went under underpasses, I could feel myself passing through the bridges. Very strange, and disorienting, until I realized that I was – yes – exterior.
I had an out-Int situation that was so bad it threw the int out on people near me. I worked at a retail shop, and this girl who worked there complained of feeling “weeead” (weird – she was from New Hampshire). Disoriented and dizzy, headaches, but not too serious. Lasted for a couple of days, and went away when I finished my Int R/D. It was one of the strangest things I ever came across. Another person in the shop felt the same way, but for not as long (and no, it was not a bad lunch).
Now, I operate mostly exterior.
What does this mean? You have to realize the what we perceive with our bodies is a very small subset of what is perceivable. We see only a small spectrum of the electro-magnetic field. We hear only a small range of possible air vibrations. We also perceive with light, and hear with sound. But there is more. You do not and cannot perceive this universe the same way you do in your body. Your eyes are roughly two 50mm lenses, with two images matching together to simulate 3D. This matching is aided by the brain. A 50mm lens sees things in a “normal way” – normal to us because of our eyes. The focal length of owls and eagles are totally different, and they see the same universe, only differently.
When exterior ALL that goes away. No stereo eyes to see. No stereo ears to hear (the difference in phase of the sound between the two ears, by the way, is how you position sound when you listen with your ears). When exterior, you perceive more, and there is no central point, no focal point to which everything terminates.
Deepak Chopra make an excellent observation that I think describes a facet of this: You are not IN your body; your body is IN you.
Magic Johnson operated this way on the court. I have no idea how he would describe it now, but I heard him interviewed, and he said he just knew where everyone was on the court – whether he saw them or not. Hence his incredible no-look passes and other feats that made him one of the best basketball players of all time.
A thetan has no location in space or time. So, being “interior” or “exterior” are matters of consideration. However, for me, the body is the center of a large sphere of “location” for me, and I perceive, or not, within that sphere pretty readily. But, again, not in 50mm focus, and not with air vibrations limited by the frequency response of the ear.
Now, Ralph, I don’t know if I could pass your test, but I do know what I know. A vase is red because our eyes see it that way. It really is not red. It is barely even a vase. It is a construct of silica and other molecules with a LOT of space between them.
I also know that it would be easy to lose yourself if you did not have the body for an anchor point – so much so, that living completely free of a body is a whole new game (and a whole new discussion).
Nicely said Bruce!
You are a good warrior for truth.
Thank you.
Hi Scott.
Maybe he has a ser-fac, ya think?
🙂
Right! The name of the HCOB was “Pep”.
Z
Thank you. I was just copying the Unruh Act into an e-mail for Dr, Benest.
along with a not too subtle suggestion. These hate-mongers are not getting away with this BS.
Again, thank you
Michael
I’m not done.
Mr. Apple box is [ you fill in the blank].
I don’t know what more is due to be revealed about Dennis – Marty is entirely correct that he has been a staunch and fanatical defender of David Miscavige. He’s also been caught on camera shoving a picketer in Clearwater.
But having worked with Dennis personally, and been on his commlines for many years, there’s something I’d like to point out in his defense.
Please put any political leanings aside for the moment, just in case you aren’t aware that US “2 party” politics is about the most rawest GPM-driven insanity going on this planet right now.
During the 2000 election Dennis circulated a call for the Republican AG Florida to declare the election and “move on”. This meant declaring Bush the winner, which for a lot of us on CCHR comm-lines, meant the “lesser of two evils” (since Gore was “pro-psych” and Bush’s TMAP scheme which is mass-marketing psychiatry in our high schools now, was not then known about). That was the last time Dennis played partisan “politics”. In fact he quickly abandoned that game and correctly labeled it as an operating GPM (two opposing sides forming up mass on the 3rd and 4th dynamics).
This was perhaps helped out in part by the fact that the DM bots of that day, operating in and around Clearwater, WERE playing politics, busily making others wrong for their compassionate politics, following speed-freak Rush Limbaugh’s war-mongering, and cooking up Ponzi schemes and seminars to “get you going up the Bridge (join in the ground floor of their scheme). Dennis blew the whistle on these things in reports and then got run out of town, losing his successful LRH-oriented radio show to these arrogant partisans who cut his financial base with third party.
Dennis started producing brilliant, early-warning write-ups about the post 911 war-mongering about to embroil the 4th dynamic, an Eli Lily cabinet White House, loss of civil liberties, Bush’s first psych meds prescription, etc. He put ethics in on the warmongering taking hold on the Scientologist e-mail groups and generally set a good example of “independent thought” along the lines of LRH data series and ethics and justice. This is when it was quite unpopular amongst this crowd. Many didn’t appreciate being reminded about LRH’s anti-war stance.
Dennis took up unpopular calls for justice for the poor and disenfranchised during a period when it was getting more and more popular in the group to blast people as “downstats”. And he continued to be hit for it with reports from the most highly-placed of OTAs and DM bots.
Then in recent years, in his passion for uncovering nutritional and other related pro-survival technologies, he set about helping others gear up for the avian-swine flu, uncovered months before it hit the media. Dennis stumbled upon the now-recognized miraculous breakthroughs in Vitamin D research. This is today starting to finally reach mainstream media and the broader culture as a vital, but generally deficient nutrient, cancer preventative, plague-virus preventative, and general health and immune-system builder long neglected due to poor and false advice to avoid sun exposure.
Dennis is no dilettante. He faithfully stayed on the subject educating his readership for years. Thanks to his TR3 on that, I am among those of his readership now enjoying excellent health and a family member of mine was been cured of a chronic condition once that deficiency was addressed.
It’s hard for me to understand why Dennis can’t yet see DM for what he is, since his confront is way up there. Perhaps shows you how beguiling it can be to be validated so highly in front of your entire religion with a Freedom Medal (I deeply pity those who are going to cave in on any really false validations of this nature, which I heard mention of in Marty’s article).
Sorry for the length of this. I hope I am not taking anything form Marty’s write-up by pointing this out – not the intention at all – but rather please see that the betrayal of trust that DM has engendered by wiping Dennis off and tossing him away is not only SOP for DM’s DMnology, but also because it could well be Dennis that HAS to be ruined and that this has been going on for a long time, because with the admiration he commands for his usual integrity (DM blind spot an exception, here) he HAS to be wiped out since he is still on so many major comm lines and his influence would cause loud commotion in the ranks were he to just complete his inevitable process of waking up.
But OTAs take note: to date Dennis has sung nothing but praises for DM, not knowing the true character of the 1.1 criminal LRH-family-destroyer that he has blindly followed as his “leader”. That he was so recently unceremoniously tossed to the street dogs the very same week the IAS was in his town speaks volumes for your own future.
A textbook example of the concept: “When HELP becomes BETRAYAL.”
I believe it was in a write-up RTC now uses as their favorite reference: “COUNTER-ESPIONAGE” was I think, part or all, of the title.
Hearing you loud and clear on that one, RJ.
I went exterior with full perception once. I couldn’t see any colors or hear anything.Everything was in black and white / gray shadows. It felt like I was spilling everywhere like liquid. No colors, no sound, got awfully boring really fast. I was glad to get back into a body. At least I got it out of my system with Scientology.
True, Grasshopper.
I understand that LRH himself at least twice originated “about to die” long before his body actually did. He was big on helping others in body distress – getting them out of the hospital and back on their feet. He wrote somewhere that anyone expecting a body without somatics was a “silly optimist”.
Tony
Ir is against California law and I am making the Dr, well aware of it.
The truth is you cannot have full BODY perceptions outside of the body.
Only full thetan percetions. Those are DIFFERENT than what people expect. They expect everything to get bright (yoo hoo, eye lenses are body parts), they expect, I don’t know what. If you aren’t stuck in your ears you aren’t going to hear a damned thing, yoo hoo. The body is an amplifer. You move away from that and things are different. I think people have some MU’s and false expectations. There are things you become aware of outside of the body though if you are atuned to nature. But you aren’t going to feel the wind blowing though your hair if you don’t have a body yoo hoo. Kind of funny. These are parallel universes from my experience. You have to not A=A the two. Perceptions are like talents you have to grow and need. City people have different perceptions than country people. Street people have different perceptions than comfy socialites and vice versa. Want full perceptions? Start out in the country , grow up on the streets and land up in corporate America via Hollywood.
You have to move around and stretch yourself. Live in bad neighborhoods then good neighborhoods. When you can walk through Harlem as a white person, to get to a cocktail party for a presidential nominee at the Waldorf for a black man, and be in communication with society all the way, you’ve got full perceptions. Until you get up off your comfort zone and get into communication you are not going to have full perceptions. In or out of your body or half and half. It comes down to reach and know and familiarity with conditions and forces. Anyone thinking they get all that from hiding in a room and holding two can is hallucinating. Keeping it real.
Even then, you’de have to bring on Bangkok next. It has to do with anchor points.
I found Scientologists in LA to be very involved in the latest nutrition fad. High doses of vitamins seemed to be a common part of every diet. If he was overdosing, he would be really sick – vomiting, constipation/diarrhea, etc. which has a way of getting the person to stop eating vitamins.
Yea, and i think it was “Scientology and effective knowledge” where Ron talks about a kid who is coughing and sick, when an “expert” goes over and examines him, looks him over and then says “Acute bronchitis”, Then walks away. Ron goes on to say something like ” I don’t care about no broncos, you got a sick kid here”. His point being that instead of just labeling a condition and walking away, help the poor kid. I’m sure many of you know the tape/cd I’m referring to.
You can replace “acute bronchitis” with the labeling of: PTS, suppressive, downstat, db etc etc. It seems like a justification for Scientologists these days to do nothing when someone is in trouble. Just label them! And walk away. Exactly the opposite of what Ron would want. Or any caring human being for that matter.
Ohh really good one!
Bruce
Thank YOU for all you have done.
You put it quite well regarding the responsibility to be taken for it, but there is something here you should be heartily validated for. Though it amounted to criminal exchange from our newer, more enlightened viewpoint, the fact remains that: You “paid it forward.”
It was MEST. Some small part of that MEST was used for a good purpose, though much of it was wasted and some of it even used to suppress. But more importantly was the intention and sincerity on your part that was there, and that theta intention of yours knows no time limit.
I know that you did what you did for the rest of us.
And so I am quite certain that (see also my above post to WW)
…ye shall surely be rewarded.
Prostitutes aren’t out-exchange! 😉
I’m not a lawyer, sixth grade education and all, but I would think that you have a lawsuit against your doctor based on religious discrimination. It would be a bit like a doctor not seeing you because you had the “wrong” skin color or some such. One would think that any doctor, scientologist or not, would put the best interests of the patient ahead of some bullshit disconnection policy, which the “church” claims is not practiced.
Joy,
The following assistance was posted on WWP for you and Michael:
“Michael Fairman and Joy Graysen might want to file a complaint on the website yelp, Better Business Bureau, etc……. just to let the public know.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/lisa-benest-md-burbank “
Hey Ralph
I get where you’re coming from. I’m just saying you can’t speak for everyone else.
OT ability isn’t about dong parlor tricks or proving anything to anyone. It is what it is, it’s personal for each individual and doesn’t necessarily align with the hidden standards of others.
I am neither a Christian nor a deist of any kind. Nevertheless, a key bit of tech at the heart of Christianity, which cuts to the heart of being a decent person, is to love one’s enemies as oneself. To me, this doesn’t mean submitting to one’s enemies, or failing to engage in self-defense, but rather to attempt to understand them and treat them as human beings. Only in this way can enemies potentially be turned into friends, and can reconciliation happen. Maybe another way I look at this is that one can be a “bigger being” and help out or even just acknowledge the humanity of someone who used to be an enemy. Sorry for rambling late at night when I’m tired. But I just wanted to make the point that helping out one who is ostensibly an “enemy” is one of the best things that a person can do to really bring peace and harmony to the world, I think.
j swift: You mentioned that the critics have compiled a list of OT VIII who have gone nuts. I am very interested in seeing this list. I know someone else who is an OT VIII who is very psychotic. She also was kicked to the curb and she was the president of one of the Churchs. It is beyond disgusting. Please send me the link if you have it. You can send it to me directly at anamarysmith@gmail.com. Thank you.
Dennis can be harsh with those who disagree with him. That certainly does not help sort out disagreements any. And you are right – my in-box is full of his Vitamin D messages and forwarded studies.
But be sure that the data you both (Scott and RJ) are stating does not apply to Vitamin A and the consequences of Fish Oil-source Vitamin D (which contains both A & D) giving one too much “A”, which definitely can be toxic. That was I think, LRH’s only concern and had been the medico’s concern of the day.
For this reason newer studies have evolved slowly (out of fear there may in fact be actual toxicity concerns for Vitamin D) as far as how high they dare go with human-subject dosages beyond 50K per day. Toxicity at any level thus far that I have seen in the recent studies, at least up to 50K, has not been demonstrated conclusive, and those dosages you mention Dennis was taking have certainly not been demonstrated harmful.
I personally believe that such toxicity will never be found. That the Fish Oil Vitamin A toxicity was long ago used by AMA types to cloud the issue and drive people away, even telling them to stay out of the sun, etc., making them subject to the modern day health problems that are epidemic (and exactly parallel Vitamin D deficiencies in the population). But that could be seen as a conspiracy theory, I suppose.
All that aside, it still behooves one to take note that such an inexpensive vitamin is having such a great impact on health now, including and especially cancers. And that’s not a “Scientology thing” necessarily (although Dennis insists LRH was onto the Vitamin D early on, and for all I know he may be right – but why no special mention in Clear Body Clear Mind?).
It appears that Dennis saw this as an overlooked health WHY impacting a big part of the population – especially blacks whose skin color requires longer periods of sunlight to boost Vitamin D levels and avoid epidemic D deficiency conditions like anemias and cancers which are demonstrably higher in higher latitudes (away from sun). For this I think he deserves to be validated. It is looking more and more to me like a correct WHY and a correct application of attention on his part.
As I wrote elsewhere, to have a family member cured of a chronic, serious health condition that was responding only in small part to auditing tech, just by addressing the vitamin D deficiency after trying everything else we could, is one reason I have paid special attention to the literature emerging on this breakthrough.
And finally Scott, I’m sorry but after their complicity in an attempted wipe-out of the populations of earth with an engineered virus, now conveniently “forgotten” due to the passing of the panic, I would have to say that CDC is “wrong-source” for medical data. If they had any integrity they would be disseminating Vitamin D and not smearing it. Even the RDA for Vitamin D had to be raised (not by much, unfortunately) when enough medicos had read the newer studies and even the mainstream media is reporting on it all (so ignorance, not conspiracy, is the real problem today).
I know I am in the minority here in my opinion on the viability of modern psychiatry, but I gotta say that for the former head of CCHR to be suffering from what could be described as a psychotic break is a double tragedy.
If auditing could put him back on track, that’d be great. But there have been other Scientologists who have been helped by psychiatry when Scientology failed them. He has cut himself off from a possible life saving discipline.
I’m glad someone is taking care of him; I’m dismayed by how he has been betrayed by his “Church”.
That is an awesome quote to have to hand. Thanks!
Great operating principle.
Going after an elderly woman with a walker? And promoting it on youtube? This is someone’s hero? Much as it can be an inconvenience, Karma might have been a good idea. Every person can be their own justice terminal.
Hey Joy, Stage 4 cancer is pretty serious – is he still around? He is benefiting from the goodness of people right now, not from any reverse-vector flow to the IAS. I lost too many people lately to cancer and other things, and the only thing good about it is the benevolence and kindness of the hospice people, and friends (non Scn) who realized the seriousness of the situation, and helped. These people were saints.
I feel for you Michael. That was big your care factor for your friend. You have good Karma. Don’t doubt yourself. When you think something hits your lines that is wrong, it is right. You will find a better doctor, you will find better friends, you will remain whole and uncompromised. These are things to rejoice about. The red carpet rolls out for us. If we are clear and OT the force is with us. Trust that and trust yourself. The force is with you. The force is with us. The only judge that matters is the one you have to look at every day in the mirror. My great grandmother gave me the best ethics advice I ever had when I was 8. She said, whatever you do, imagine the whole world is watching you. You have been in the right place at the right time, you still are.
Ask yourself, Do you really want to be treated by a potential trouble source?
This was a blessing.
I went off staff and off Scientology because I knew back then, that I am not helped from my group if needed. I knew that they would not care if I grow older and needed some assistance. (as staff you have no money for any pension planning) As staff I went seriously ill that worst case could kill you in the end or leave you with being no longer able to do hard work. But I did not get any assist or auditing. I knew I am completely on my own.
For more case gain please send a large donation to my PO box #333 In LA and I will send you a McDonalds gift voucher for a Happy Meal. For that matter anyone else looking for a large case gain see above.
Amy,
Hear, hear! does anybody think of the following letters:
D-E-B-B-Y C-O-O-K?
Impartial English Girl
Think Roman Emperors, plots usurpation!
It gives me no pleasure to hear that Dennis Clark is down and out. Still, the man was not on my Christmas card list. I had several run-ins with him while picketing. Once he showed up at the Tampa Courthouse when Jesse Prince was there to give some testimony in a hearing concerning the McPherson case. He threatened Jesse to the point where I was requested to go along with Jessie the next day to make sure nothing bad happened. As it turned out nothing happened; Clark was all brag and bluster.
It is easy to understand why the resident Scientologists won’t do much on his behalf. After all, that money could and should be used to keep Little Davie dressed in style, not spent for somebody who probably will never be able to spend anymore money on course, the IAS or whatever.
Can’t you see that this type of arguing is exactly the justification to get rid (dispose) of the not so able or no longer able? If you are no longer productive you are disposed. In Germany if you are over 50 and loose your job you have almost ZERO chance to get a job. Companies try to get rid of the older ones. I do not have the exact numbers but it is about only 25% of the over 55 that have a job you earn enough for a living. „If you are OT then you should be able to stay young and if not you are PTS and a burden…“
Google for „unwertes Leben“. (life that has no right to live)
So do you.
You have me in fits of giggles frequently 😀
‘Like’
Damn we need a ‘like’ button!
Wise words Deirdre.
Howard Becker’s ‘regging techniques’ were obnoxious.
My ex-husband threw him out of the house.
One of his favorite lines (aside from the fawning repetitious assertion that we were REALLLY BIG THETANS) was to tell us that if we took out yet another loan to pay off the loans we already had and make a massive IAS donation we wouldn’t be committing an overt so nothing bad could possibly happen to us… this coming from a man who makes a big fat commission every time someone sells their soul for the church.
“Mary Sue’s treatment and blunt invalidation makes my blood run cold. ”
Ditto.
Great post. And may I just add that no one should beat themselves up for having donated to the IAS, OR feeling good about it at the time. The impulses that made us do that were good; it’s all very well standing here with 50 foot rear view mirrors, but “never regret yesterday”. How were we to know the total betrayal of trust? I sure had no inkling at the time I made big donations. This cuts right to the core of why this regime, and His Holiness in particular, is quite so incomprehensibly evil. The ability to use the very best aspects and impulses of humanity and twist them into something destructive … sometimes I still, 2 years after waking up, struggle to get my head round it.
I’ve just sent an e mail asking OSA UK which hate group my 9-year old daughter has joined that prevents her from seeing her best buddy whose parents still supping KA. I’ll let you know what the answer is…
Me too!
Right, they have the senior Danger formula, where you bypass and handle for someone in danger. You think they would ever use that for a staff member or a Scientologist in Danger? No, it involves OUTFLOW.
Care. Consideration. Mercy. Compassion, Love, Charity and generosity. Hubbard expected people to have those things anyway, he didn’t expect people would have to be ordered or told. Frankly, he overestimated people.
I’ve been trying to tell ya….
Glad you finally got the idea!
For example, America had it’s own “Eugenics movement” supported by many psychiatrists at prestigious “leading” Universities, and other MDs. They were, of course, all white folk. They had a lot of women sterilized, and guess what? Many of them were black. Others were ‘retarded’ so they were considered to have inferior genes that needed to be eradicated… Then there were the “mentally ill” or “socially unfit” who shouldn’t be allowed to breed….
There are still class-action lawsuits happening….
That’s the best example of make it go right I’ve ever heard.
He probably talks to DM in his sleep – scary stuff.
He’d test out your TRs…
Not just disposable; sick non productive discarded wrecks form the EP of any SP group. The goal of Reverse Technology Corporation is to render each person seeking spiritual advance into a total effect. Their main weapons consists of lies and misleading mind control to make everyone commit o/w’s on each other until they withdraw.
They consider it a flap when withdrawal is followed by turning to Marty and a successful if it’s followed by flow zero motivators like strokes, cancer, suicides, accidents, bankruptcy, etc. They will do anything to enhance and bring about any mayhem they can blame on the PTS failing to handle his SP. But they forget to tell you that they actively prevent handling by forcefully hiding the real SP.
Marty is allocated 20.000 a day and more because this way a wrong item is heavily forced on the group which deepens its PTSness and blunts recognition. Exposing the SP would heal people like Dennis and render ineffective the only weapon the Implant/Assassination Station has. Exposure is the biggest threat to the SP group that depends completely on covert lies for its very survival.
The final joke is that America has a one party system – two branches of the same party. Gore Vidal covers this well in his books.
All covered very competently and thororoughly in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. Going on sixty years ahead of his time.
Hayden and Christie,
Great comments! You have hit on something here. This happens to public, too. In 1998 when the Lisa M. debacle hit, people were routed off OT7 in the same way. The route offs I talked to were offed for being PTS. I was one of those people myself. My question was, Isn’t the new OT7 supposed to handle anything that can come up on a case?
My situation was a civil case. I was doing great personally and in session. I tried to explain I had it under control but, this didn’t matter. This is when I quit trusting the church. I did return 2 1/2 years later with much prompting but, I was always on guard. Then when I finally started trusting again, I had the ship experience in 2005, beginning of the end for me. Some of those guys that were routed off back then are still off or never made it. I think it was a chunk of people and I’d bet the stats suffered. It seemed so arbitrary and robotic and frankly insane.
“Now, I did some things and was involved in some things that were absolutely phenomenally good, I think. The Berlin March was an experience. The Freedom Crusade in Germany was another.”
Yes, Fellow Traveller, I believe that these were impressive 3rd dynamic experiences.
But they were also large scale dev-T. The crusaders overlooked that their church was quite ravenous for motivators. And that is not healed by crusading.
Here a few things about the German scene. I am sure the well-intentioned crusaders were not informed about this :
– in 1970 the first org was established in Germany. Just one year later a threatening phone call against a reporter was traced back to the Guardian Office.
– 2 Scientologists were sentenced because of violence against a female member who had decided to leave.
– again and again, people who were vocal about Scientology abuses or who published critical texts experienced the usual harassments, lots of lawsuits, frequent burglaries and so on.
– a Scientologist was sentenced for threatening a politician with murder.
– at one time OSA’s harassments became so rampant that a raid into Munich org was done and telling documents were found.
– infiltrations included a member of the federal parliament who had fallen for an OSA mole and advertised that he was a cult exit counselor. Later the cover of that mole was blown.
– the administration found out that OSA uses electronic devices to intercept communications.
– government people had noticed that critics of scientology had been attacked by violent goons who gave hints that the attack was set up by Scientology. Note that the reign of the Nazis started exactly this way – beating up social democrats and other political opponents. This set of quite an alert in politicians who knew about history.
The German government and administration had the decency to do something – not much, but a little bit – about Co$ crimes and abuses. They had done more if they were not constantly interfered with by the US government … which has turned a blind eye on Co$ human rights violations and other ugly stuff until present time.
Carol,
You comment about his change reflects how little valences are understood in the CofM. These individuals are operating out of valence. Look at Allender. Look at the rest of the squirrel busters. Out of valence.
A thetan in valence operates at a high level of ARC. This doesn’t necessarily mean being nice, but it does mean having high levels of understanding about the conditions one is facing.
The essential worth of Scientology was having tools to get a being completely back in valence. A thetan who could maintain a viewpoint knowingly and at cause. A being who could make analytical observations unaltered by fixed ideas–those nasty “held down sevens” across the dynamics. Clear took care of the first dynamic held down sevens. OT handled the other dynamics.
Miscaviage has converted the entire process into installing “held down sevens” across the dynamics and driving individuals out of valence.
Is it any wonder that those who remain are so irrational?
Michael
Just another example of why it is so important to POB to destroy family connections: no help available to the individual who doesn’t toe the line. Where would Dennis be without his son’s help? Hope his son cognites on the affects created by this aberrant third dynamic.
Sam,
I wholeheartedly concur.
In a recent conversation I had with a long-term collegue from the Int base we agreed that whilst we had certain old friends that we sorely missed and worried about, we would accept and help ANY Int base staff member, any SO member, any Scientologist — except for the person that created this scenario – Miscavige, who is beyond help.
In the last month I have personally assisted 3 Scnsts in need, and frankly, if there is anyone in Oz or abroad who needs help — I will do all I can to assist. My email is lana@hushmail.com. Just drop me a line.
Dennis Clark was a loose cannon to say the least. He was a bully in the Allender mold. He simply crossed lines he shouldn’t have crossed. Here’s a video of him in front of the Fort Harrison when Bob Minton and the LMT were there peacefully protesting. Notice that at 11:05 in the video Clark punches the camera being held by a protestor Mark Bunker. At 13:48 he starts telling at the protestors and the cops have to get him to calm down. I think at 21:26 in the video is where the cops pull him aside for the last time. Also, somewhere in the video Clark is seen stepping on the foot of one of the protestors. Does Clark think he can just assault whoever he wants and get away with it, or is he just stuck in his winning “Psych Buster” valence? Frankly, he’s acting like a douchebag.
“Pep” HCOB, 2 August 1973. I believe it may have been originally written by MSH? But IDK for sure.
Many “elderly bodied” OTs are abandoned by their church, S.O. and public. It’s been up to their friends and family to help them in times of need. Great way to end then start a new life, liability step 1. decide who are one’s friends and move on up a little higher through the conditions.
My god Colwell,
Jenny Sue Alexander looks TERRIBLE!
Here is another example of a long term Scientologist and dedicated Sea Org member offloaded from the Int base because of a medical situation.
Makes me want to puke!
When I was on the PAC RPF in 2005 I watched as Uwe Stuckenbrock (Lou’s former husband and the former Int base Security Chief) was left in the PAC RPF to die of MS. It was horrific. They put him into a proper hospital bed and in his own room only when they were worried he was going to die and the authorities would find out the conditions he was being kept under. He passed later that year and probably never even got a funeral.
Sick.
The line which was used concerning elderlie’s schedule was… “the older you get the less sleep you need”. Also, to “protect” the precious Flag Land Base, many a Veteran SO member got shipped to LA in the early 2000s, few notoriously refused to go, some returned later as the panic of them possibly dying inconveniently at Flag wore out. The “unreasonable” attitude which a staffmember was to employ and show towards the elderlies was utterly sickening.
Another tech degrade forwarded by the NCGs at the IAS is that – “solvency is not on the grade chart”. I used to counter that with, “well, I don’t see Patron with Honors on the grade chart either.” I was sent to Ethics for stating that as I obviously had overts on the IAS. The IAS is just a brainwashing and crush regging organization with no transparency. I’m so glad I’m out of that cult….
OnceUponATime, agreed
What a pitbull!
When his own O/W´s hit him, he was betrayed by his own.
Grasshopper, this a wonderful description of the phenomena. Thank you.
All involved in this needed to step 3 feet behind their heads. Absolutely NO ARC there! Probably the DeMoss’s et al need to take a look at this in a new unit of time. What do they think they are at Woodstock?
My 9-year old misses the same best buddy.
I feel sorry for the child who has lost 2 close friends and is no-doubt in a state of confusion as to why.
RJ, I agree with you completely. People aren’t going to avoid old age by denial or not-isness or avoidance. But one thing is for sure, postulates and considerations have more to do with how and when you age than anything else.
Dylan’s a great example – also take a look at these guys – well into their 60s – loving what they do, with no intention to quit anytime soon:
Han — Thanks for filling in a few missing pieces, helping to unstick one of many held down 7s.
I am pretty sure now that there was, and still could be, alot of activity not disclosed. The original suppressive actions against Scientology and LRH in Europe when LRH was at St Hill, later with the Sea Org which were probably leveraged to justify the more recent actions.
It it very much a living case study in life, the interactions thereof, and the demonstration of individuals’ ability: to OBSERVE, to DECIDE, to ACT (based on the tech dictionary, my emphasis).
In my case, I have observed I have been lied to. I decided to eat some crow and seek more truth. I have acted with wild, perhaps wreckless, abandon in attempting to travel the road or great middle path to truth.
Helluva game we got here, eh?
Bruce Pratt
Thanks.
I don’t know that I reached cause over money, but I sure did take a whole lot of the edges off it. 🙂
Bruce
🙂
🙂
Michael,
This does just make me want to go all “Old Testament” on these people, however experience has taught me to get out of the way, and let justice take it’s course. Please register a complaint at http://www.medbd.ca.gov/ There is a form for it under Consumers.
Love to you and Joy,
Tom
I am physically active and engage in activities outside, in the sunlight, every day. Regardless, my medical doctor recommended 1000 I.U. of Vitamin D3 to address problems I was having with menopause (in combination with other medication – herbal, non-herbal). Because I don’t take any other vitamins/supplements, I was able to see a real difference (it was life changing in fact…only other women my age would understand this). My medical doctor is just a standard general practitioner with the local medical group, who is current with the latest studies on woman’s health. Since it is working, I don’t see a need to take more. The point is that each person is different and a blanket “prescription” of high doses of anything that would be appropriate for all is inappropriate. Vitamin D is not a substitute for taking a daily walk or other activity outside in the sun, but, especially as women age, it needs to be supplemented to promote bone density, etc.
Nice!!
You rig a nice beer keg as well my friend!
Right – to have a candy bar or donut was labeled “Out PEP”
There is a line about cutting out the “milk and sugared coffee” – that caused a commotion – cut out milk, too? Took some word clearing for some people to figure that one out.
That is a brilliant idea. Placards reading “Religious discrimination practiced here”
ML GG
I swear to God DM and his like-minded crones modeled their lives off of Klingons in Star Trek. Use them when they are useful, cut them off when they show weakness.
Actually, when you think about it, isn’t the CofM the embodiment of Darwinian “survival?”
http://ctheblog.cforyourself.com/2008/12/overdosing-on-niacin-side-effects.html
Making 60’s look real good:
It is true that there are many things to be said about psychiatry, not only good ones, and valid criticism can be leveled against the standard practices in this field.
The end result that CCHR created in that it is connected to the Co$ and doing these over-the-top exhibitions with claims that are just ridiculous (psychs did 9/11 and the holocaust, to name a few) is that any group with criticism towards psychiatry, even legitimate ones, can be discredited with assertions like “oh these critics are probably connected to Scientology somehow. They’re lunatics so you can’t take them seriously”. I’d wager CCHR was more harmful than useful when it comes to reform of psychiatry.
I consider “One flew over the Coocoo’s nest” to be one of the best films ever made and looking into the IMDB top 100 confirms this judgement. That film was a hundred more times real to me than any propaganda released by CCHR.
I was thinking about all of this after reading all the comments. Man, what a nightmare with the number of people who have gotten old or sick (be it mentally or physically) and rarely is help from the CofS group given to them. Any sane person has to wonder how could this be.
Is is possible that those still in have a wildly unflat help button? Somehow they’re now inverted in the area of help. They didn’t enter the group this way. I wonder they became this way after years of “helping”; IAS, ideal org, super power, libraries and whatever other emergency of the day the dwarf could come up with. The flock helped, helped & helped some more by pitching in their money for the dwarf’s lofty (and bullshit) goals but ended up where they can’t even help their own friends. There’s a major non-confront going on within the cult. Totally aberrated.
Whose idea was this to escalate the protest and create a huge scene? What good was hoped to be achieved? From the viewpoint of people driving by, it would just look like a huge protest against the Church, requiring every police officer to respond. The police have to step in to control the Scientologists, who are responding with physical intimidation, just bordering on violence, and hate speech. They see the cameras and know that it is all being documented, but they continue. Really, really, really stupid. Shameful behavior.
Hi Sam,
I don’t wish to invalidate anyone’s exterior state.
What I have observed is that some claim to be exterior with full perception and use that to invalidate and evaluate for others. Bill Robertson’s followers have been very guilty of this. A claim is made that LRH is on a spaceship at the centre of the galaxy as observed by Bill in an exterior state. But Bill can’t say who is in the next room.
RJ – PAB 24 refers to exterior, not exterior with full perception.
Regarding the Auditors’ Code here is a quote from Class 8 tape 18 :
“Number fourteen, “I Promise to grant beingness to the preclear in session.” It doesn’t say I don’t promise to go on tip toe around, whenever I’m around the preclear when I’m out of session. Let me read that one again. Fourteen, “I promise to grant beingness to the preclear in session.” Its’ modified. It’s in session. But I have seen auditors treating preclears as though they were still in session when they’re out of session, and I’ve seen preclears sort of hanging the auditor with the fact that they’re his PC out of session. It’s unfair and goofy in both ways.
And so on. I’ve even gone so far as to occasionally tell a preclear who tried to continue the session after the end of session, “You are not now in session.” And they sometimes blink, and say, “Yeah, that’s right.” I didn’t say, “Bug off.” But I might have. That’s in session. It’s in session. Sometimes you get a PC hangs himself around your neck. God help us. “
What an embarrasment.
I used to think people that did this were brave or freedom fighters.
Now the “Scientologists” there just are crazy looking. They drew WAY more attention tot he picketers by creating such a fuss. Now I know that there have been people trying to expose the abuses for a long time.
That’s right Lucy and only because it doesn’t get taken out of the weekly pay and paid into the gov’t. Even at the low pay of $50 a week or no pay it still would not be enough to really even claim let alone live on once you’re able to start collecting at 65.
I agree Brian 110%
She does and looks like she’s had a stroke and lost some of her speech control. Seeing her makes me wonder about her husband Carroll and then I thought of Todd their son and they had a daughter.
People being offloaded at the time I mentioned were Phyllis Stevens – they wanted to eventually send her back to Australia via Flag, Pene Mace, Betty Hardin was sent down & I know she was working at AOLA, she had hardening of the arteries and wasn’t getting the medical attention she needed to take care of it. Those are just a few off the top of my head. Funny thing is the majority of us at the Base had been there for 15-20 + years and all getting into our 40’s & 50’s and with not allowing any new people to come to the base it could have been turned into a whole retirement community.
That is a socïety problem not a Psychiatric one. Nazi distortions of Nietzche’s ideas having foot in feretile american soul. very “unamerican” in nature actually
It is called genocide.
The Eugenicists lost from the social psychiatrists in my country
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC546365/
“Although many psychiatrists held that pre- and after-care naturally belonged to the new field of mental hygiene, this view was contested. Some eugenicists rejected the social-psychiatric objective of keeping the mentally ill in society and outside mental asylums, because they felt that mentally disturbed individuals had to be prevented from procreating: apart from sterilization, social isolation by means of hospitalization in a closed institution provided the best guarantee for this. When it came to implementing concrete measures like sterilization and forced isolation, many social psychiatrists, however, proved sceptical of eugenics. Generally, they felt that therapeutic treatment and consideration for the patient’s social setting provided the best prospects for countering mental afflictions, especially among young and acute patients. In social psychiatry, and in the psycho-hygienic movement as a whole, the confidence in the perfectibility of human beings, which in the Netherlands was strongly rooted in the tradition of moral education and social work, won out over biological determinism.”
Hi Ralph;
That is so true, isn’t it. Many, many times someone tells another when I’m present, ‘He’s my auditor’, even though that was years ago. Often they even look at me weird, not normal, an admiration type flow I think.
Sometimes it is embarrassing because I don’t always remember them, having sat in front of hundreds of them over the years.
I guess the presence just sticks. Once that trust is there, it is always there, doesn’t evaporate at ‘End of session.’
Important story, Ralph. thank you.
Absolutely! Ahead of his time on so many things. It amazes me that people can take a sliver of the subject and turn it into a whole career or industry. I stopped yelling “Ron did that already!” at the TV years ago.
Was that Rod Stewart?
🙂
Michael,
I’m sorry you had to deal with being refused service by your Dermatologist. It’s completely nuts. My son’s pediatrician, Dr. Danuta Jackson-Curtis, a Flag public on OT VII, also refused to service us. She had been my son’s doctor since the day he was born. She came to see us in the hospital the same day that he was born, and had been with us for his entire life. She was always friendly and would even take my worried calls when I was out of town (or in another country). Then one day, I got a letter saying they would no longer service me or my family. He was a 2 year old boy at the time!
I could tell something had changed at the last appt. She was very curt and rushed with me, and then a few days later the letter arrived telling us to piss off. I wished I had kept it, but I didn’t and I didn’t realize at the time I could have used it (that was in early 2009 when I was first declared).
Can you believe they would prejudice a two year old boy because of his mothers religious views?! INSANE. Barbaric.
Thank you for the info. He was a friend years ago. He had been a Royal Airforce Pilot before Scientology. We co-audited on NOTS at AOLA.
Thank you Bobo. I audited at AOLA for Sandy as well. She selected me to become the NOTS CS in 1986. I Audited there from 1980 until 1986 and then C/Sed NOTS from 1986 until 1991 when I left.
Another good point Ralph.
🙂
(Hubbard said Darwinian theory was an Implant on tape.)
It is not the embodiment not darwinian survival, It is more a who is the maddest man in the madhouse kind of thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest
“Survival of the fittest” is a phrase which is commonly used in contexts other than intended by its first two proponents: British polymath philosopher Herbert Spencer (who coined the term) and Charles Darwin.
Herbert Spencer first used the phrase – after reading Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species – in his Principles of Biology (1864), in which he drew parallels between his own economic theories and Darwin’s biological ones, writing, “This survival of the fittest, which I have here sought to express in mechanical terms, is that which Mr. Darwin has called ‘natural selection’, or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life.”[1]
I see your modern psychiatry and I raise you a social psychiatry dutch style
ExSO, regarding that free food that cost them thousands, we also ended up with some very expensive t-shirts!!
Well that’s Angry Gay Pope
Yes.
Do you have Dox on the child molestation ?
And don’t forget Cambodia!
Scott, it’s very difficult to overdose on Vitamin D through diet, even with massive supplementation. It’s possible to overdose through shots.
Speaking as someone who has had to struggle with keeping my Vitamin D in range *at all*, 10,000 IU per day is what my body needs during fall, winter, and spring, and I can reduce that to 5,000 IU during summer. By blood test, I’m still within the desired normal range. I’m not stupid enough to take massive doses without having it checked twice a year, though (and I had it checked more frequently until I was sure I wasn’t harming my body).
Human bodies aren’t designed to get primary Vitamin D through the gastrointestinal route. They’re designed to synthesize it through sunlight and supplement by diet during the winter.
I wasn’t able to get within range at all until I switched from pills to Vitamin Shoppe’s drops, btw, but celiac disease comes with malabsorption problems, particularly of Vitamin D.
I can’t speak for Dennnis, of course, just wanted to give another data point. For some people, 10,000 IU really truly is a maintenance dose.
Seems like it would be very easy to create a serious ARC break with a PC in that situation. Auditing is about communication and PC’s are really digging in and communicating about stuff that they may have never communicated before. Stuff their closest friend or spouse might not even understand. So of course they are going to have a “not normal” type of ARC for their auditor. It’s not a “normal” relationship. The session should end yes and something is wrong if a PC is being clingy or not giving you space, but something is wrong with this attitude, I’m sorry. “Bug off- we’re not in session and I’m having a smoke, and I’m also not convinced of your exteriorization”. Holy shit. That guy is giong to do good in his next session with you after you put on a smiley face and mock up some ARC? I don’t think so .
Jackie,
DM CUT the Social Security payments. They were paid before, as I checked on mine and at Flag they were paid. It is a DECISION by DM to not pay them. He could, easily. He won’t.
Disposable beings. I realized that some years ago, when I was told I was ‘disposable’, those very words, at the Int Base.
Those stupid vans and busses. When I was there I would be sitting in courserooms all day from early morning till late at night and I longed to just get some space. But no, you have to wait or a freaking “minibus” to come pick you up if you want to go anywhere like from the training building to the FH which is 200 yards or so. They said it was because they did surveys of the neighborhood and residents complained about scientologists walking around. This seemed rediculous to me because that whole area is Scientology. It’s like complaining about students walking around on a university.
Mr. Fancy, I’ve been very helped by anti-depressants. After my husband died, I was convinced I’d never write again. Absolutely convinced. Anti-depressants lifted the cloud enough that I began writing again within three weeks of starting them. (Given the specific anti-depressant I was on, I actually started feeling improvements within 2-3 days.)
Now, they’re not a cure, but in my experience, they’re like like an assist for the mind. I’m still on low doses for sleep regulating properties simply because the body happens to do better on them than off them.
It did take me a while to find an auditor willing to audit me while still on them, though!
Right on Publius!
Still the “World’s Greatest Rock’n Roll band” 🙂
And I do not mean David Miscavige
Possibly the written version communicates less well exactly what LRH meant than listening to the tape.
Yeah agree Keith hasn’t aged a bit since the ’60’s.
That’s because he looked as old then as he looks now.
I think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn’t allow too much blood into his alcohol system, smokes a packa Marlboro Reds a day and has at least two groupies a night.
He’s working on the same longevity plan that John Lee Hooker pioneered 🙂
Pip-pip, Sherb, old bean! Just look at what’s currently happening with Rupert Murdoch and his media empire (he owns Fox, plus a number of newspapers) – chickens are SERIOUSLY coming home to roost. He’s been getting away with it, atop seemingly untouchable power, for FORTY YEARS. However, I think Mr. Murdoch has rather more common sense than our little nut-botherer, DM.
I haven’t seen anything to substantiate charges of child molestation???
No to both – but I did enjoy “The Fisher King” – it was quite enlightening for me.
I’m currently listening to the PDC’s (unedited 1980 cassette version), about 1/2 way through. Ron is very explicit about operating outside the body, and the difference between theta perceptics and body perceptics, but the overall impression I’m getting is the concept of *drilling* on one’s abilities. They are “theta muscles” that, I’ll speak for myself, I haven’t used in one hell of a long time. It strikes me you’d be better off putting a bullet in your head than doing the OT levels in the c of m (dm’s idea being to implant beings and stick them harder into their heads,) so of course the idea of getting out and exercising your abilities would be frowned upon, and certainly not discussed.
Ken Kesey was actually had an intimate look at institutional psychiatry when he wrote “One Flew Over the Coocoo’s”.
Sorta like our friend Valkov who posts here.
What he saw he didn’t like so he wrote a book which became a best seller and later a Movie starring Jack Nicolson which was heavily promoted by CCHR back then.
(Now there was a movie worth seeing!
Compared to that disgusting adaption of “Battlefield Earth”.)
Anyway CCHR was much hipper back then for sure.
They didn’t care that Ken led the “Merry Pranksters” in the “Electric Koolaid Acid Test” on the “Further Bus” or any of that.
Unlike the buttoned down uptight fascist assholes who are into a different kinda Koolaid that currently run the place now like Bruce Wiseman who wrote that inanely stupid book on the “History” of Psychiatry.
A favorite of Tom Cruise.
Actually if you want to read an accurate history.
You should read a book written by a Psychiatrist called “Manufacture of
Madness” by Dr. Thomas Szasz .A book that the Ol’man himself recommends and has called ‘brilliant”. One I highly recommend myself and use Wiseman’s book as a paper weight, a door stop or for lining a bird cage.
Like the Church.
What CCHR was and what it currently *is* are two different things.
“They had done more if they were not constantly interfered with by the US government”
That’s because the new Government Approved and Tax Exempt CoS has become one the US Intelligence Community’s best assets.
That said.
I’m really not a fan of any Government saying what is a religion and what isn’t.
I think they are overstepping their bounds when they do that.
It not only violates your constitution and therefore violates OPC’s mandate but also the UN Charter of Rights.
You can still bust criminals who use the false flag of religion as cover for their criminal actions instead of going after the religion itself.
You know RJ, I was not only a “techie”, but I also ended up being an OSA volunteer, used only for PR purposes. I stood up in court against Margaret Singer, insisting “There is NO Fair Game”. I personally kept the OT 3 materials out of the Wallersheim trial. I was “in” the David Mayo, RICCO trial………where Judge Felzer (or is it Phelzer?) Ordered “Ray MIttoff and David Miscavige to take off your various status garb, talk with each other and decide how much David Mayo has to pay IF he uses any of Scientology’s copywritten materials.
They insisted THEY WON, and I believed it, for years–Until I escaped out, 11 years ago, tomorrow.
Then and only then did I find out David Mayo, and L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. (and many others) were paid off, which was a huge shock to me.
The “church” lying to people is standard Op and has been, for many years.You ONLY find out—once you leave. Don’t waste your life “in”, if you’re lurking: Take back *your* life NOW. 🙂 Love to all… Tory
Ralph
Ahhh. Another discussion on “Exterior with full perceptics.”
From my years of being a course supervisor, I offer this:
All discussion on this subject, or any subject really, is wholly based on each individuals concepts/understandings of the words involved. Each of those four words is significant individually, and together as a whole.
Without establishing some agreement on the understandings of the words, there will be little likelihood of reaching any kind of full duplication of another’s viewpoint.
That having been said, I personally find the debate/discussion interesting, as others present their individual viewpoints on the subject.
To me, it is the “game of communication” to see if you can ferret out the other persons definition/concept, behind the words that he is speaking, so that you can then truly “see where he is coming from”. You may not have the same viewpoint yourself, but at least you will have understood his.
Eric S
Yeah I know.
Either money or real estate.
An early Happy Anniversary, Tory.
Argh: Actually scary to hear this about Dennis. When I escaped out, literally 11 years ago, in 2 days (July 22, 2000), I met Dennis then and thought he’d gone quite mad. He was amazingly antagonistic to all of us “out” and doing things that were SO off the wall (like pushing people in parking lots, etc). I knew he’d gone over the edge, but this is tragic to hear.
I remember seeing one of the Chiropractors who used to treat the Sea Org. He arrived in front of AOLA. He was standing out in the street, ringing his hands, his hair all odd and his shirt out. I went to try to help. OSA grabbed me and said: “Leave him alone”. I said, “He’s one of us….aren’t you going tho help him? He’s YOUR chiropractor for God’s sakes!” They: “There is nothing we can do, he’s gone mad”. Come inside. That ZERO compassion was a *huge* waking up point for me.
Bless whomever is helping Dennis, and to ALL who are OSA ops still doing the same crap he did, realize this: It can, and very well may happen to you, too. AND your ‘Church”, your “friends” will be NO WHERE to help you, either. If you’re lurking: BAIL WHILE U STILL CAN!!! I am ***Not*** kidding.
My love to all 🙂 Tory
gandiguy, gratias ago vos. Alea iacta est – aut vincere aut mori!
Kesey lived a few blocks from where I now live when he wrote that book. For Szasz, my favorite of his books is “Our Right to Drugs,” though.
I have never understood the adoption of the Republican party as the party of choice for many, many Scientologists. The opposition for expanding health care to more people (Obamacare), the support for the wars, the official endorsement of California’s Measure 8, more than a friendly connection to News Corp (FOX), and on and on. I always felt that I had to keep my political views and voter registration private to avoid ridicule. It is no wonder that Freedom employs former News Corp. reporters, who engage in unscrupulous practices (hacking, hounding, harassment). They had the very best training in Murdoch’s media outlets. There is more to this connection, I’m certain.
And that is how I got my IAS money back. Once I learned they were using that money to pay legal fees and pay people off, I wrote demanding my IAS money back, for “not delivering what you promised”. And I got it, too. I highly suggest if you have not, start asking for it. They’re on shaky grounds with their money and the IRS—-so push it, and tell them IF they don’t pay—you’ll start charging interest on ALL the years they’ve fraudulently had your money! 🙂 TLC
Maybe he means “child abuser.”
Maybe you guys shoulda said End of Session using Tone 40 like it says in the HCOB.
I sometimes have the PC or PreOT say “Tell me I’m no longer auditing you.” like it says in earlier model sessions. If it looks like the guy is still in session or still talking about their case when I’ve ended.
Some PCs and Pre OTs are continually in session anyway so it doesn’t matter if you end the session or not.
But this is rare.
Hate to say it guys.
But if the guy’s still in session after you’ve audited them then in most cases you flubbed.
Don’t blame the PC.
I guess my auditor to me is just a person outside of session. I can let them take their hat off and if it seems like the right thing to do maybe we’ll both have a smoke and talk about politics or sports or something, but I can tell if someone wants some space and I’m not offended by that.
When I first came in I probably wasnt like that. I probably thought my auditor was some sort of guru or something and maybe I didn’t let him take his hat off a few times.
I don’t know man. I guess it’s just something you have to deal with as an auditor. I wouldnt be annoyed with it as it’s a sign of respect and that the PC was really in session. You got the guy so in session that he’s following you around on your lunch break still in session, you know?. Thats not his fault. You’re the auditor. You start and stop the session.
Bruce,
it has been said that truth is the first casualty in a war. And war there is, from OSA’s attack games to the IAS war chest.
But the reason for orgs is something else. And when help and progress becomes less important than fights and wars then we get something like the current “church”.
We will never know what would have happened if OSA and Guardian Office had restrained themselves enough to not create additional and unnecessary antagonism.
Yes, you have nailed it: it’s up to us to observe, decide and act accordingly. And you can bet that I will not fall for another war-obsessed group.
Ralph, I wasnt following the quotation marks right. I haven’t heard that lecture and I thought parts of your quote where you.
It was Nelson Mandela’s birthday on Monday and round here the celebrations still fill the evening news. One reporter recounted an interview question he asked Madiba:
“You were in jail for 29 years, how is it that when you were released you did not hate those who held you captive?”
The answer was “They had me for 29 years. If I continued to hate them after being released, they would still have had me.”
So many good folks over the centuries have expressed “What is Greatness” int heir own words. It all comes down to the same thing in the end, doesn’t it?
That’s a surprise.
I just have to add a bit CD:
“fittest” is this context means “best suited to survive”, like polar bears have dense fur to live in snow, and African blacks have skin adaptations better suited to harsh African sun than Europeans (I’d know, I’m a European in Africa).
“fittest” does not mean “biggest baddest meanest bastard in the crowd who callously murders everyone else to survive”.
This video reminds me of the newsreels that were shot in Alabama and Mississippi during the civil rights movement in the 1950’s. The demonstrators peacefully picketing and being assaulted verbally by the hatred of the mob. There is the same contorted faces the same wild look in their eyes, and the same frenetic tone to their attacks. All that is missing are the beatings. As withholds were being missed big time on those who hated the African Americans, so major withholds are being missed on these pathetic excuses for”OT’s”. Deep deep, down the Southern bigots knew how evil their actions against African americans had been. And perhaps not so deep down, this covey of “OT’s” know the evil they now represent
Sadism is at – 23 and masochism is at – 24. Extremely close. When he goes after people like this he is on the verge of getting his ass kicked and enjoying every minute of it.
I think that’s a worse condition than being elderly and handicapped.
It’s not true he has two groupies a night, he’s a happily married man in his 60’s living in Connecticut. His wife just beat cancer. The last two tours he went on, his wife and kids traveled with him. His wife has been a born again Christian for over three decades and Keith himself has become very religious since his wife’s illness and recovery.
He is brilliant, charismatic, and has a very high volume of theta. If you are from New York you know there was a little Scientology crowd (models) hanging around with Mick and Him. Cindy Hall’s (She an OTVll Comp) sister Jerry married Mick.
Keith was struggling recently with what to name his new album and I suggested, “To Be”. I think he’s going to use it. Well, we’ll see.
He’s a straight up guy. You can read the whole net through and not find one comment from anyone who ever said Keith Richards ever did them a disservice. He had a drug problem, that’s all.
Michael, this hits the nail on the head. It’s the raw face of bigotry; the liability of sham “Scientologists” (who are heavily PTS, classic examples of “degraded beings”) that, without personal integrity, are no more than unthinking robots to the suppressive authority they think knows best. They are not “free beings” they are robots.
That’s why the more I experience and the higher I climb, I wonder if there is any higher goal for awareness than that of personal integrity.
I wonder if perhaps personal integrity is the point of the circle where the end brings one back to the beginning.
At the very least, personal integrity is the fundamental element without which any level of higher “awareness” is rendered null and void. LRH truly said it all when he wrote, when a being has lost personal integrity, he has lost everything. How true, and how ugly the proof of that statement is.
Thank everyone on this blog for putting strong shoulders to the wheel.
RJ,
you wrote : “You can still bust criminals who use the false flag of religion as cover for their criminal actions instead of going after the religion itself.”
Yes, this should be standard procedure under normal circumstances.
But OSA / GO are not “normal”. They have found a way to organize their crimes of gving others a hard time and getting away with it. What a “brilliant” technology …
A cop in LA said that the police don’t have enough money to investigate Co$ ! And no government in the world was able to uncover and persecute OSA crimes to a major extent. OSA would probably buy cops, blackmail judges and whatever more it takes to escape responsibility.
Under such circumstances the German governmeht had decided to warn people about Co$, i.e. to weaken its dissemination lines.
It may be true that some Co$-members have trouble getting a job here. It is certainly true that they don’t demand their church to act in a decent and civilized manner.
Depression is a feeling. If you take something that makes you feel better, then you don’t have depression any more.
There are lots of reasons that people get depressed-and most are very good reasons. When it becomes an issue where it is a self-perpetuating state of inaction, then it’s a problem because one of the best cures for depression is action.
I agree with you-anti-depression meds are an assist for the mind; just as antibiotics are an assist for your immune system. Antibiotics alone are not going to work for a person without an immune system-they just weaken the enemy enough for the immune system to kick its ass. Same thing with anti depressants. If you continue to do or experience things that make you depressed, the meds alone aren’t going to help you.
I think that the best approach-and the one that is currently advocated by modern psychiatry- is counseling augmented by meds if needed.
CCHR acts as if psychiatry is still stuck in the 1950s-and exaggerates claims to ridiculous (and easily disprovable) extremes. If psychiatry was as bad as CCHR says it is, there would be no need to lie about it.
OTOH, there are examples of Scientologists that went off their psychiatric meds and went psychotic-some of which have died or even attacked and killed members of their family.
Thanks Tom
The rocket is about to lift off
Michael
Christie
“It” is going to come back on them this time. This madness will stop.
Michael
“Depression is a feeling. If you take something that makes you feel better, then you don’t have depression any more.”
I both agree and disagree with this. Anti-depressants fix the biochemistry, but not the underlying reason for the biochemical issue. As you mention some kind of talk therapy can help with the underlying cause. I chose auditing, but there are fine therapists in other disciplines. Yes, even psychiatry.
Ultimately, how much you trust your auditor or therapist and how willing you are to talk to them is really the key in how much help they can be.
Mary Demoss is out of the Church and wants nothing to do with it! Can you believe that the C of S got 40 to 50 parishioners to go outside and act like this? This is what happens when you are brainwashed! This is embarrassing. Even when I was drinking the Kool Aid, I would have never participated in this kind of behavior. Maybe these guys are just plain nutty and then throw in some brainwashing and a commendation, they are in!
Thanks guys,
There is a lot more data on D-3 therapy that you guys have to look up. Such as supplementing the D-3 with K-2 to prevent the D-3 from releasing too much calcium into the bloodstream. Correct diet for D-3 therapy, etc.
Trust me on this. I know because I fucked up and took Dennis’ advice on the D-3 and got really sick after taking the doses he recommended. It took me many months to recover from it.
Subsequent research reveals that it is a far more complex subject that it would appear at first glance.
My advice is to study it yourself before beginning any “therapeutic” mega dose regimen.
Bottom line: The human body automatically stops producing vitamin D at about 10,000 IU/day in response to direct exposure to sunlight. That should be your first clue.
Here’s more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D
Hi Eric,
Yes, that seems to be the key point regarding Ext with full perceptics.
I was once told by someone who claimed to have achieved the state that it meant one was exterior and could still see with one’s eyes.
My own take on it is that eventually a thetan will recover his own native ability to perceive the environment. I do get what grasshopper has said and my own experiences are similar. We have become used to perceiving the world through the vias of body perceptions.
Yes Mike,
I go with the idea of drilling aswell. Its more training than auditing in a way.
I find the 1st and 2nd ACC data give a better sequence of drills than the PDC.
I could point out that all Sea Org Members, are homeless people being provided with shelter, food and a bed, even clothing and some spare change, from a Church.
I admitted it to myself when I was on staff.
It wasn’t so bad. Kind of an adventure. Rather like doing a stint in the Peace Corp or a Church Mission or working for Save The Children on a contract level. Lot’s of people live homeless, the soldiers out on the desert floor in Iraq right now are homeless. Go into a camping equipment store like Big 5 and think about how much money people pay every year to go out and pretend they are homeless (camping).
No probs 🙂
The main reason I posted that quote was that people sometimes try to hang the auditors’ code on me who have never even been audited by me.
If I have to tell a PC I’m auditing that I don’t really want to hear about their case out of session then I do it gently and with ARC. Its not really a matter so much of the auditor needing space but more that one is gradiently teaching a person that their case can be controlled and that it is more optimum for them to be living life between sessions than engaging in figure-figure.
If someone had cognitions about exterior states and itsas about them out of session a bit then I’m not going to invalidate them nor their gains.
LRH does say that initially when people go exterior then they are looking at other things than their own exterior perception. I really hate to see people settling for delusory states when the real states are available with a lot more work. People can get easily confused when first going exterior about their perceptions. Some people see little green men in underground bases on the moon. Those in Bill Robertson’s groups tend to validate such ideas and go off into crazy wars against aliens whereas I try to give them LRH data which explains unusual perceptions in a way that does not invalidate their case gains and directs them back toward correct application of Scientology.
I have seen people draw maps showing the locations of 50+ implant stations in secret locatioms under the planet and post them on the net claiming that they saw them with their exterior perceptions. In such situations I have no problem with telling them that unless they can tell me a 6 figure number I put on my wall then I’ll consider them to be FOS.
There was an instance a while back when someone posted a “success story” on the net wherein some “OT” claimed to have been driving down the freeway and seen a child being being thrown off a bridge by a psychotic man. He claimed to have put out a theta hand to soften her fall and that she landed without any broken bones 50 feet below.
It was posted by an auditor rather than the PC.
Such “Success stories” make Scientology look stupid. When I found the local press report on the incident it was stated that although the child suffered no broken bones (young children do have much suppler boners than older people) she suffered severe internal organ damage and was expected to spend at least 3 months in hospital. So much for the “theta hand”!
I suspect that many recently leaving the CofS have not seen the extent of craziness that can go on when not too stable individuals start asserting their delusions as stable data.
It happened a lot back in the last large exodus of 1983 and I’m attemping to post warnings to avert it happening again.
My feeling is that Marty is aligned with that intention and is similarly wary of the nutters.
It is a “psychiatric problem” when the main proponents of these kind of policies are psychiatrists in positions of influence.
It is a “psychiatric problem” when Soviet psychiatrists effectively jailed (by commitment to hospitals) political dissenters and heavily drugged them with anti-psychotic drugs like Thorazine, diagnosing them as “psychotic” for disagreeing with the government.
It is a “psychiatric problem” when psychiatrists in Cuba under Fidel Castro lobotomized political dissenters.
This kind of corruption has run deep in Psychiatry at times and demonstrates a lack of integrity within the profession.
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it is a duck. To say it is not a “psychiatric problem” when psychiatrists push destructive inhumane agendas or compromise their principles as Medical Doctors and indulge themselves in ‘social engineering’ for their own power and status is absurd. The profession has consistently failed to police itself, requiring ongoing reform efforts on the part of it’s ‘clients’ and victims. Psychiatrists in the USA have had the wealth, prestige and lobbying power of the American Medical Association for decades.
I don’t know about psychiatry in the Netherlands, but the “perfectability of human being” is a double-edged sword. It has been used over and over as a justification for genocidal behavior, by communists, by fascists, by the current regime in the CoS….
Eternal vigilance, my friend, eternal vigilance.
I’m not blaming the PC.
I rarely end session with a tone 40 “End of Session” I reserve it for the continually in session cases that you mention.
I usually end the session on a good win rather gently as is covered in LRH HCOBs.
RJ – do you have a real name? I prefer to communicate with people who do not hide behind anonymity.
Sue, yes, I think he meant that too. However posting statements that someone is a child molester without evidence can lead to civil suits for libel.
We have to be careful when dealing with snakes.
Ralph — He has identified himself a number of times here as Robin Adair.
Watchul Navigator
The way I remember hearing something like that from RON, it was…” ”
“Anybody that has a body and figures that he is not going to feel any pain, is incredibly naive.”
Eric S
Ouch, Scott, sorry to hear that you got so messed up from that. The body needs its own weird ratios of things, and I’d alway suggest people go by blood test for supplementation where practical. It’s still a complex issue, though.
Nice, I’ll have to check out those two lecture series as well. I will comment that it’s damned refreshing being able to discuss the subject and getting some genuine viewpoints on what one can expect at the top of the independent, true-to-LRH, Bridge.
ok – it would be easier if people used real names – I realy have a problem remembering all these different people’s alts on different boards – real names woud be easier. Or people could make gravatars so we know who they are?
Does he deliver any services outside the CofS? He seems to have opinions.
Thanks, Scott. My family member and I have never exceeded the 10,000 range, and maybe why it’s worked out so well. I believe you on the overdosing. Glad to have some first-hand feedback. Luckily I had the consideration that going 2,000-10,000 per day was going to get it right eventually and so I’m glad now I didn’t overdo it. 4,000 per day produces great results within a few weeks.
ARC – WN
No allegations of child molestation by David Miscavige have ever been made by any of the ex-Int Base staff in books or other media.
What is the source of this accusation, please? Or are you simply planting that information here for a bogus libel lawsuit or something ?
Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
Han,
I still stand by what I wrote earlier.
OSA is just another criminal conspiracy.
Nothing more unusual than any other criminal conspiracies like Drug Cartels, Terrorist Cells and the CIA’s Clandestine Services etc.
Scientology *is* a religion.
I don’t buy the we must violate everyone’s Civil rights argument.
On that point I think the US State Department ( though they may be heavily influenced by the IC and Scientology and seem somewhat hypocritical and self serving at times) does have a point.
Right – and that sad fallacy, the Republicrats pretending they are at war with each other instead of with the Corporatocracy against the people and the liberties of our Constitution, is tying up so many attention units and resources it’s not funny. A real 3D/4D GPM that sometimes pushes the edge of civil war. Scientology is NOT political!
“Change no man’s politics, change no man’s religion…” – LRH
+1! 🙂
I know Dennis… it took him almost a year of me pestering him to get paid for hauling his motorcycle from California to Clearwater many years ago.
I also know David P… he’s good friends with Dr. David Singer and I listened to him perform at a closed party in Dunedin.
It’s a shame really what Dr. David Singer is currently doing to Chiropractors. He’s selling a “territory” for a company he created called “Neurological Relief Centers” for roughly $8000 per doctor plus royalties.
The “NRC” teaches a simple procedure that was “discovered” Paul Whitcomb, a chiropractor in northern California (South Lake Tahoe).
While I believe the treatment actually may be legit, Dr. Singer basically promotes it for Paul Whitcomb, D.C. because he lost his license to practice.
But in the end, he charges a doctor $8000 plus royalties for “the right to use this treatment technique” —- unfortunately for Dr. Singer, Graham Payne and Jim Miller (employees of David Singer Enterprises), IT’S JUST MORE OF THE SAME CURRENT TACTICS USED BY THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY AND ITS CURRENT LEADERSHIP.
Dr. Singer told me once how David Miscavige had struck him once… but that’s another story.
It’s unfortunate that a great profession like Chiropractic is being duped by Dr. Singer’s tactics. I attended the Christmas party at Flag in 2009 where Dr. David Singer announced that “the whole purpose of David Singer Enterprises was to introduce Chiropractor’s and Acupuncturists to the Bridge To Total Freedom and help Scientology expand.”
I was fired in July 2010 from David Singer Enterprises because I believed my purpose was to help Chiropractors get more new patients… go figure.
David Singer Enterprises does not help Chiropractic, this company only humiliates the profession by convincing doctors to do “marketing tricks.”
Many Chiropractors believe that Dr. Singer’s tactics is the main reason the profession at large is looked down upon. Don’t take my word for it, ask a former Dr. Singer client.
If you want some personal testimony to these facts, email at brettallenmmedia@gmail.com
I was Dr. David Singer’s promotional Director for 2 and 1/2 years and I can tell you honestly, he mostly does not deliver what he promises… just like his “Church” …. the “Church” of Scientology.
Brett
If you are an established patient with a ongoing doctor patient relationship the Doctor cannot sever that tie without medical justification for a referral out (say they were a GP, and you needed to see a surgeon). Having a different opinion on organized religion does not medically/legally justify a referral to a different doctor.
Hey Steve – great point and a vitally important one.
I think a lot of us – from people I talk to anyway, are coming to the same conclusion. I think of it (Personal Integrity) as step zero on the Road to Truth. Then step zero-zero, would be that other short, sweet reference, “Honesty and Case Gain”.
Only then can you get going on any kind of genuine Bridge to a new, higher level of awareness.
Spoken by one who has had to go back and start the process “all over again” in some respects (but not entirely so – since one can re-align data already studied, so there is also the salvage of earlier study and experience while going on to a new, higher point of an upward spiral).
I came at this subject honestly, wound up committing some overts on my integrity, both for the “good of the group” and for my own self-serving “status-seeking”. And so got further engrossed in the false overts handed out like candy by this group under the suppression of DM’s evil distortions. But then finally, after a period of remorse for having gone out-integrity, came out of it and graduated to an even higher level.
The websites you and Marty have set up, have played no small part in blowing away the lies on the 3rd dynamic which enables one to examine this vital ingredient of personal integrity under a much brighter light.
That’s the beauty of this subject – you get, as good as you are honest with yourself and honestly contributing to your dynamics. And that tells us we’ll all eventually make it and only will make it, as fast as we wake up to those fundamental truths.
It also tells us why we would never have made it on that hamster wheel DM and his RTC enablers has made of LRH’s Bridge.
KRC – WN
To answer your question given in the third person Ralph:
“Does he deliver any services outside the CofS? ”
The answer is yes.
By the way people using screen names are not always “hid(ing) behind anonymity”.
And BTW I am familiar with the HCOB Ext and Ending Session but I wasn’t referring to those sessions that end on a big win.
I agree Ralph,
This is the kinda stuff that OSA used to pull on ARS and other boards.
Yes what I wrote was a bit confusing
The situation in the Church is more this.
“It is not the embodiment not darwinian survival, It is more a who is the maddest man in the madhouse kind of thing.”
Anti-Social
Most of our Psychiatrist are Jungians.
You can better say ” Abberation” of Psychiatry because all those shitheads that lend themselves
“I don’t know about psychiatry in the Netherlands, but the “perfectability of human being” is a double-edged sword.”
Now you know
“In social psychiatry, and in the psycho-hygienic movement as a whole, the confidence in the perfectibility of human beings, which in the Netherlands was strongly rooted in the tradition of moral education and social work, won out over biological determinism.”
And that is how I got my IAS money back. Once I learned they were using that money to pay legal fees and pay people off, I wrote demanding my IAS money back, for “not delivering what you promised”. And I got it, too. I highly suggest if you have not, start asking for it. They’re on shaky grounds with their money and the IRS—-so push it, and tell them IF they don’t pay—you’ll start charging interest on ALL the years they’ve fraudulently had your money! 🙂 TLC
PS: Thank you, Deirdre!!!
Nice you are not aware that you yourself admit it is a socïety pronblem.
All functions of the goverment apparattus get abberated not onley psychiatrists but alsoo judges , police, everything.
“It has been used over and over as a justification for genocidal behavior, by communists, by fascists, by the current regime in the CoS….”
“Anti-depressants fix the biochemistry”
This is Big Pharma PR. To suggest antidepressants are a “fix” is to suggest the “biochemistry” must have been “broken”. This is faith, NOT science.
Antidepressants “work” like any other psychoactive substance; by temporarily forcing a change in neurochemical processes. That is all.
theoracle, thank you for these fascinating comments about Keith & his life from someone (you) who sounds like he knows what he’s talking about.
Keith’s book was a great read, don’t you agree?
Another fascinating post, RJ. You seem to be on a roll – must be those Marlboro Reds you were talking about earlier (smiley face here).
I know nothing about the advisory council PLs and have never heard them referenced in this context (setting up a relatively democratic system).
This might be something that warrants its own artticle here or maybe on http://www.savescientology.com. I think more people need to know about it. I certainly would like to.
The support a parishioner receives is dependant on their “up-side” to cos and or potential liability if unhandled that is all.
I can look back see the stark differences between how different public where handled. High profile and or deep pocketed parishioners where “helped” at all costs – often for free and at great expense to the FSO.. Whereas some public (many of which had given huge sums in the past) who found themselves in physical, emotional or financial crisis where ignored.
There seemed to be an unspoken undercurrent or “group think” to only flow power, help or time to things or people that were strong and capable of contributing to the cause – “Greatest good”. Anything else was a form of dev-t. This same misguided moral code was used to justify Sea Org members having little to no contact with their immediate family – especially if there family where not Scientologist. Yet how many people have left to find out the family they had largely dropped out of communication with “had their backs” when needed?
Today’s church is not driven by compassion or a desire to help. Its action are based, and priorities are set for the betterment of one thing – a financial balance sheet. People, groups or causes that find themselves “in the red on the spread sheet” will be quickly dumped,
This is harsh statement. While there have been COUNTLESS individual efforts within the church to help people and instances of compassion, THESE WERE INDIVIDUAL EFFORTS. The driving dynamic of the church, as its own entity SEPARATE from individual or staff efforts, is “beans in vs beans out”
If you were to tell DM that disaster relief and resources were needed for an area in crisis BUT THESE HAD TO BE GIVEN ANONOMOUSLY without any possibility for positive exposure, credit or recognition to church they answer would be NO!! If Help without recognition or compensastion was the litmus test – and if it should be if it is a religion- they would fail.
Sometinmes it is at level “Games” 😉
Rawrrrr
Happy Anniversary Tory!
I guess we’d both been played by the so called “Church” of “Scientology”.
Wow thanks for the update on Keith oracle.
Never met the man myself so all I have is the standard “Rockn’Roll legend”.
That said Keith is a brilliant and underrated guitar virtuoso and he and
the Stones have integrity.
Thanks Publius.
Actually it’s the American Spirit 😉
Save Scientology is good starting point though.
This gives Ron’s estate planning under Trust B.
Actually he was the one who wanted another organization like CST as a buffer or check against RTC.
Contrary to popular misconception, false data or disinformation currently being perpetrated by those who have seized control of the Church RTC is not the senior organization. Nor is there such a post as “chairman of the Board RTC” who has personal control over Scientology.
That is a bald faced LIE.
And that is how I got my IAS money back. Once I learned they were using that money to pay legal fees and pay people off, I wrote demanding my IAS money back, for “not delivering what you promised”. And I got it, too. I highly suggest if you have not, start asking for it. They’re on shaky grounds with their money and the IRS—-so push it, and tell them IF they don’t pay—you’ll start charging interest on ALL the years they’ve fraudulently had your money! 🙂 TLC
PS: Thank you, Deirdre!!! And RJ TOO!!!
I seem to have trouble posting in the blogpost hereafter
It always comes a shock Tory. Making a discovery one took for granted one already knew, hence the value of the golden rule “Do unto others as you would have those others do unto you”. Dennis Clark was no exception and he truly antagonized critics of the church at Flag. I actually saw him deliberately come out of the Fort Harrison and deliberately step hard to hurt, on a protestor’s foot! Someone might call that assault or call the Police but that is not what this is about. The man’t inention was not good and for the church to express itself professionally putting someone like him out there to literally “go and walk all over the critics” is not the right thing. I have found a being is much more powerful and at cause doing good and not put it to the corrupt and perverted use the Church of Scientology requires of it’s members and itself. In the end the church is always right and YOU the one that did for the church, well you shouldn’t have done it. As is the case with Dennis Clark. I am not sure if I would helped him if let’s say I had been a protestor and he had punched me in the mouth or walked on my feet and knocked my picket sign out of my hands. Why should I forgive him if he did? Would he have forgiven me? So this is a very sensitive topic. As a rule I live by: “If you had to harm me when you were in the Church of Scientology then you don’t need me, whether you are in it or not.”
Truly a sad story about Dennis Clarke. Dennis and I were never “in ARC”, however I respected him for his courage and work he did against the psych’s. He had balls bigger than an elephant. He KNEW LRH was not kidding when he said the psych’s are “the sole cause of decline in this universe”. It disgusts me that no org has lent a helping hand to Dennis. I remember the days when the org would at the very least send out someone to minimally give assists or a free session or a C/S 53 to see what’s reading to help a person who was ill or in trouble. But nowadays the bottom line is…no hours on account or no money on account = you’re on your own. Where is the “caring” that LRH was all about?
Whose problem is it, when there is corruption within a profession?
Cat Daddy, where are you getting your info from? This is a little overboard. Child molestation by whom?
Good old Jimi, 40 years after his death he is still selling 1,5 million albums every year. Isn´t that a incredible impact he created ? Compared to CofM….
……!?
I totally agreed.
I commented on earlier post, saying Miscavige was the top SP I could ever imagine existed.
Someone answered back to me, that I was probably not a Scientologist to say such non-sense, cause I would know that man is basically good.
I didn’t care to answer.
And still to this day, I don’t think Miscavige is basically good.
I respect LRH and believe 99% what I have studied from the old man.
But I think there is a few people around here that are basically EVIL.
Even if only a handful on this planet.
And Miscavige is one of them.
Look what he did.
He took LRH philosophy and turn it into a mascarade.
And someone want to tell me DM is BASICALLY GOOD?
I don’t believe it. Sorry.
If I am not yet giving my name, it’s just because I want to tell Miscavige right in his face, he is an SP.
I know who you are Miscavige. You don’t know who I am.
The day I will stand in front of you, you’ll know.
And trust me, I will not be alone.
See you soon.
Very soon.
Thanks GH,
I’ll have to check that one out.
Tory,
BRILLIANT! That I exactly what I am going to do when I come out!
Alea iacta est. Translation: “The die is cast!” (said by Julius Caesar when he … Ars gratia artis. Translation: “Art for art’s sake”; Motto of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. … Aut vincere, aut mori. Translation: “Either conquer or die” ….. Melior morior bellator, quam ago profugus. Translation: “Better to die fighting …
Marty, you wrote above…”Incomplete on NOTs for twenty-four years? Only a suppresive group of the lowest order could manage that. I could, and would if he woke up and reached, straighten him out with a yank in very short order. Easy.”
I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but there are HUNDREDS incomplete on NOT’s out in the field. Many of them a lot longer than Dennis.
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My question is, WHY ???!!!
He couldn’t care less about other people (and probably still doesn’t), why help, sometimes, just sometimes, what goes around, comes around !
Webmaster,
The video “Jimi Hendrix, Like A Rolling Stone” is no longer available in YouTube do to copyright claim.
Here is another one, not from YouTube: http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xf29ee
Jimi Hendrix, Like A Rolling Stone Lyrics:
Once upon a time you dressed so fine
Threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn’t you
Peopled called you, said ‘beware the doll, you’re bound to fall’,
You thought they were all kidding you
You used to laugh about
Everybody else that was hanging out
Now you don’t talk so loud
Now you don’t seem so proud
About having to be scrounging around for your next meal
How does it feel
How does it feel
To be on your own
In no direction home
Like a complete unknown
Like a rolling stone
its funny just how things come back on you. this man is such a horrendous human being. but i guess by saying this,, i would have to say the same about all the OTs because they are all guilty of belittling non scientologists. this is America. some people still believe it means something to call yourself an American so to have our brothers and sisters berating and bashing us the way these scientologist do, it is simply unbelievable. you cannot treat people like this and think it wont come back on you in some form. it just so happens that dennis no longer has the support of the one person he would have killed for. this now puts him at the mercy of all of us on the other side of the fense. i dont expect anyone would even spit on him if he were on fire. just because your being brainwashed doesnt mean you stop being human. this is a pitiful excuse for treating people like dirt just because they care about what happens to their fellow Americans. you should know better by default. i was watching a video about dennis and his treatment towards non scientologists. he is such a wicked man. i needed to know what became of him and i ran across your blog. if you treat people like garbage, you can bet youll get whats coming to you and its usually much much worse than the negativity you committed. we live in a democratic republic where we are free to worship however we please or not. that is the beauty of this great country. if communism is what you want, why dont you all move to russia. you cant even wipe your ass over there without sending in a request to the government first. yourse truly, a real American lady
I personally think it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
I agree with Mark Smith. People can talk all they want about Marty’s past actions while in the cult but he has worked so hard to make amends, right his wrongs and help so many people. Not to mention speaking out against the cult and suffering intense harassment as well. People like Tommy Davis leave the cult and never do or say a damn thing to help expose the church or help anybody. Marty, you’re a hero in my book.
Glad to hear Clarke is dead
Was married to Dennis H. Clarke from ‘81-85