The Scientology Money Machine

The St Petersburg Times has launched a multi-story series about the “church” of Scientology’s vulture culture.  The several stories in the first installment focus on the revelations of former Flag Registrar Hy Levy and former Flag Public member Brian Culkin; both of them Independents.  When you go to the link to read the stories, please be sure to watch the two video interviews with Hy and the one with Brian.  They are intense and informative.  Combined they describe with particulars how Miscavige has, in addition to creating a culture of violence, created a culture of unrelenting greed.  the link, St Petersburg Times, The Money Machine.   By all means share your comments here, but don’t forget to also weigh in on the St Pete Times website – don’t let the cult’s spamming trolls have their way.   Thanks Hy and Brian, you have a done a tremendous service to the public on several levels.

By the way, note the “church” responses.  They have lowered the bar from the even the days of Tommy Davis; the blatant falsity and incompetence are remarkable.   Take this one for example:

” ‘Fundraisers do not persuade or pressure parishoners to take on debt’, spokewoman Pouw said.”

Now, compare that to this email sent around by Flag’s two veteran Los Angeles area Field Staff Members, Wendy Ettricks and Joanne Schintzel:

Sent: 12/30/2009 5:14:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time
Subj: A Wonderful New Year for all of us






187 responses to “The Scientology Money Machine

  1. Hy Levy is a wonderful guy and small business owner that lives not too far from me here in New Jersey. Now that he is going public I will not doubt see or hear soon in the near future “OSA Men In Black Invade the Jersey Shore”. Very good on Hy for speaking out about the Church of Scientology. Very good on anybody speaking out about the Church of Scientology! 🙂 It is more than just about the money, it is the principle involved.

  2. If you really want to get to know Hy better and learn a lot more about the Flag money machine, you should really watch the video of Hy. Especially about the bugged rooms that the Flag I/C’s listen in on.

  3. Well done Hy and Brian. In reading some of the comments posted by kool aid drinkers I had to laugh. All the church knows how to do is justify and deny. Brian your comment about being an alter boy and the priest never taking you into his office to ask for 50,000.00 stood out for me. I was raised a Catholic and went to private school and was never asked for one dime. Yes my parents paid a monthly tuition. Never no 50,000.00!

    What this church does with it’s so-called registrars is criminal period.

  4. Marty,

    Thanks for your kind words. It was a long time in the making but it was a cleansing experience for me to get to voice my feelings about what RCS had morphed into. I hope it helps others to wake up and smell the coffee.


  5. In these times when even an “immortal” among us like Joe Paterno’s can suffer such an immediate and spectacular fall from grace, the oft-repeated quote on these pages bears repeating yet again…

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” –Edmund Burke

    Unlike the dwindling #s of DM’s ostriches with their heads buried in the ground, the hallmark of Independent Scientologists seems to be that they actively choose to do something–anything, whatever it takes!–every single day to shine some Light into the black hole of greed, perversion and criminality that the KKKult has become.

    And, as we shall soon see with JoePa & Co, sticking your head in the ground and pretending you don’t see anything is no defense when it comes time to pay the piper.

    Keep fighting the good fight!

    Big Love,

    John in Austin

  6. Question With Boldness

    Very well done Hy! Thanks for standing up for all of us!

  7. Good job St. Pete Times – soon to be Tampa Bay Times on January 1, 2012:

    Great job Hy Levy and Brian Culkin.

    The fund raising for me is not the real issue.
    The real issue is that this “church” pays no taxes.
    This ‘church’ is really a ‘protected’ business.
    Do you think the Czar would have allowed this?

  8. “Church spokeswoman Pouw said no one was vilified or made to confess at “Flaps and Handlings.” The meetings were held “to develop a team spirit of mutual cooperation and coordination.”

    Oh is THAT what those staff meetings and Flaps and Handlings was all about!! I thought they were for DM to degrade and belittle Executives and Staff members in front of the group – their peers! To make them admit to the most ridiculous crimes and errors so that DM could thump his chest to show what a Superman he was, having to handle everything in Scientology.

    You could have fooled me Karin Pouw…. Thanks for the clarification!

  9. Thank you both for such accurate and well stated Knowledge Reports.

    When I think of the last ten years on “the bridge” and I think about creating a new civilization and I think about what that new civilization looks like (a culture of total greed and criminal exchange) I am disgusted beyond belief.

    As for the utterly lame, lying rebuttals…well, LRH says it best, “The practice of not-isness reduces understanding,” and Thus we see that failure to discover Truth brings about stupidity.”

    Karen P…you don’t understand because you have become stupid. You might want to read some LRH on the subject.

  10. Question With Boldness

    Joe and Tom did a great job on Part 1 of this report. There is one big glaring fact left out, though. All of the money that is regged is a “donation” according to the Church and the IRS. Would someone from the IRS please do something???? You are required to donate and you are required to donate a specific amount for a specific service.This is a business. This is not a religion. I am OTVII and a reg so I can speak with certainty.

    If you are on the fence and lurking, please DO NOT “DONATE” ONE MORE DOLLAR!!!!

    If you are lurking, reread what the Church spokesperson stated. You know that this is untrue. You know that Hy regged for the GI and that this is expected from a Flag Reg. Karin Pouw is a liar.

  11. Thank you Hy and Brian…both very powerful messages.
    Hy, you touched my heart. I have also had experience with the loss of a loved one and the disrespect for life and family that is demonstrated in the Corporate Church…which is exactly 100% opposite from the goals we are trying to achieve by studying the tech. LRH was about loving all of life, not greed. And your communication about your last day on staff…I too, as I walked out the back door on my last day, felt like a kid on the last day of school before summer vacation… “I’m free!”. What a release!
    Brian, your story showed just how far the vulture culture true intention reaches.
    Thank you both.

  12. ” ‘Fundraisers do not persuade or pressure parishoners to take on debt’, spokewoman Pouw said.” Are you kidding me?! That is right up there with Tommy Davis and “there is no such thing as disconnection.”

  13. martyrathbun09

    Good point. See my updated post – putting some documentation up to this lie.

  14. Thank you Hy!

    I really hope it does help others see the envrionment in a different light.

    Hugs and Respect to you sir just for this 1st set of interviews.

  15. Oh man…Ya…no persuade or pressure…and maybe if I put another exclamation point on my posts people will believe it even more !!!!!

  16. ” ‘Fundraisers do not persuade or pressure parishoners to take on debt’, spokewoman Pouw said.” Are you kidding me?!

    Too funny. I cannot recall a time when any Scientology Registrar did not insist I add on to already overburdening Debts I had, which once led to Bankruptcy.

    Any and all Church Of Scientology PR Rebuttals I have heard so far are pure unadultered pathological Lies. Every anti-social Act is watered down into something somehow benign and humane and it’s all complete bullshit. There is not one Person who was once a Church of Scientology Parishioner now here in the Freezone that has not experienced firsthand the continuous extreme demands from virtually every Arm of the Church continuously at one’s Throat for even more Money.

    Its gets so bad that one pretty much has to depart the Church to keep any kind of financial control in one’s Life.

  17. Hey, Mark, consider what LRH said about getting a guy to admit he was wrong makes him feel degraded. Well, that was the real purpose of those meetings and they were making people feel degraded and overwhelmed at the same time. The old one-two punch!

  18. Exactly, LDW, Karen Pouw again and again sounds stupid!

  19. Mona, +1

  20. And +1 to Formost too.

  21. That is what stuck out most for me, too. Even ANY current “on-lines” church member can identify that lie from a mile away. Nice going Karen, keep on lying and showing your asses for more and more people to wake up. I’d be curious to know how many people here are still paying off debt they took out, under coercion and duress from church staff, for services, donations and materials. Pretty soon you’ll be thrown in the hole with Tommy for saying what you were told too say as well. Then maybe you’ll get a f***ing clue.

  22. Re: Wendy Ettricks email. It has been a few years now that a campaign has been run to position “uncomfortable” as a part of a pro-survival action and it completely invalidates any considerations a person might have in a reg cycle that they don’t want to go out ethics on their finances. It “removes” another objection that the prospect might legitamately have. This has been done in a number of ways by the way to completely remove any power of choice the person being regged might have. It is a very insidious form of thought control and to me a shocking development in Scientology, but then again, how many of you have ever read “Big League Sales”? Introduced into my org in 1973 (SO mission) and it is an apalling handbook on how to control others’ power of choice.

    I don’t know Wendy Ettricks, but I sat near her for a while on course at ASHO a few years ago. She was always super friendly and enthusiastic (did not appear false or out of valence to me). We did a few drills together,never talked outside of the course room. She is not a cynic; she is a true believer.

    My final words here have to be read – or said really – as the great Jon Lovitz would have said them on Saturday Night Live many years ago: “…..uhm, yeah….the reges never asked me to go into debt…..they just asked me nicely to contribute ….. it was nice having three of them visit me at 1 am and staying the night….. yeah, that’s the ticket ….my wife Morgan Fairchild used to like making them coffee….yeah……..”

  23. Or this one on Brian’s article:

    “Culkin said he felt stalked.

    The church disputes this account, saying the fundraisers involved have no recollection of the incident. It stated: “IAS fundraisers are enthusiastic but always polite and respectful and fully understanding of ‘no.’ ”

    BS all the way.

  24. How about the one where she says fundraising is done according to church policy!?
    ““If the Org slumps…, don’t engage in ‘fund raising’ or ’selling postcards’ or borrowing money.
    “Just make more income with Scientology.
    “It’s a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed.
    “For Orgs as for pcs ‘Solve it With Scientology.’
    “Every time I myself have sought to solve finance or personnel in other ways than Scientology I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that Org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fund raising Barbecues.”
    ORG PROGRAMMING, HCO PL 24 Feb 1964, Issue II .

  25. OMG! All of us who worked in the Church never saw any of that money-we were being fleeced as well. I am not a money motivated person, but, I had to leave staff as I had no money and worked 12 hour days-it was ridiculous. I have continued as a field auditor for many years now and my focus is not money -it is delivering a real service for a fair price and everyone is happy. Plus, my PCs incomes do improve-sometimes alot.
    Which, leads me to bring up one of the tools I use and that is PTS handling-for money, my favorite PL is “PTS Personnel and finance”-12 May 72. I have found, not only in the Church, but out in the regular world too, that when one can’t figure out money, criminality can be used. Of course, there are just plain criminals. It is soooo disgusting though when the Church does it. One of the biggest reasons parishioners get so screwed up financially, aside from other obvious reasons, is that their biggest source of their PTSness is the Church and they never get that handled-they are audited over PTSness -the above mentioned PL explains exactly what happens. Plus, they get implants, instead of auditing. It just goes on and on.
    We would all be happy if dms head exploded and the madness stopped.

  26. Thanks Lynne. I don’t know if you got it or not, but I was being sarcastic. Pouw’s statement made me laugh out loud it was such a falsehood and outpoint.

    The only purpose for those Flaps and Handlings and Staff meetings was to degrade and control the staff to do whatever DM wanted done. For me personally, when this began to get personal and disgustingly degrading rather than aimed at someone’s job performance and correction, it was one of the main reasons that I finally left for good.

    Pouw’s statements rank up there with the best of Tommy Davis, they are so full of outpoints and lies.

  27. Hy and Brian, excellent job on telling it like it is.

    The church’s responses are pathetic. Karin Pouw is a liar. Plain and simple.

    The independent movement is alive and well because people of honor are doing the right thing: exposing the crimes and corruption of that diminutive coward sociopath miscavige, creator of the vulture culture and usurper of the great works of LRH.

    We will save Scientology.


    P.S.: davey, you are going to need stronger pills for sleeping. Maybe Propofol? Yes, I know about the pills you take. I know a lot of interesting things about you.

  28. After paying and paying and paying, having tons of money on account, just not in the right accounts, because when I needed something on the tech side, I couldn’t draw from the tens of thousands on the training side, requiring even more debt to feed the vulture. Funds for the lower bridge didn’t rise up to be useful on the upper bridge. Packages, packages. Can’t break them up, right? The game was so rigged. The amount of unethical finance activity and the very sorry account statements that were impossible to understand and often wrong, left the average parishioner in complete confusion of what was what on their account. One is driven to apathy and sink into a complacency on “well, this is what must happen to make it up the bridge. Ya gotta be OT to go OT… yadayada…ad nauseum
    Years after my last service I am still paying off debt from the C of $. I have not bankrupted despite the temptation and every good reason to do so. Yet I have to struggle to keep making the payments while the Church still holds tens of thousands of my money never used and refuses to communicate on it. This, of course, is in direct violation of LRH finance policy and repayment policy. Apparently, Miscavige dumped LRH a long time ago yet he expects everyone else to be required to follow all his “legalese” in every form that is signed before services. He runs this madness with impunity. Yet he has his attorneys write this santimonius drivel about how legal everything he does is. His day of reckoning will be soon. The end is near for him. Thank you to Tobin and Childs, Hy and Brian and Marty and all the rest of you for keeping the light on. You guys are the soldiers of the light. Love to all,

  29. I saw this illegal regging technique in it’s early stages in the 70s; nowhere near what it is today as reported by Hy and Brian. It is an ever increasing pattern getting more and more frantic in the world of collecting money and not delivering an exchange as expected by the person who puts his/her financial life on the line to achieve a goal, handle case, help others. Pretty obvious to anyone who really looks that there are ulterior motives generated by one person for taking money from Scientologists and then not delivering. Yes, the tech is priceless. But when money is taken and then the Tech not delivered it is out and out criminality. It’s not a church. It’s a laundry.

  30. Michael Fairman

    Hy and Brian
    Thank you for detailing the blatant and perpetual, no holds barred, sucking of money from church parishioners. Pouw blatantly and perpetually counters the truth with lies.

    When I was regged for OT VI, VII and VIII in the FSO office in LA , I was told that these levels would explode my career and finances — no two ways about it. Just as I had been told by previous reg’s that OT I, II, II IV and two times through OT V would handle that. The reg called, and had me call, to increase my credit limit and max out at least ten cards. That put me in debt so deep I had to declare bankruptcy two years later. When I was at Flag during two of my many six month checks, I ran out of hours, Because I was in the “middle of an action”, I was warned not to stop my auditing, and the reg had me call every one I knew at home who may have had the funds for a loan, When that didn’t happen, I was “encouraged” to go around the Sandcastle dining room, embarrassed and humiliated, asking certain friends for intensive money. I was successful twice and repaid the loans. After the last one, I told the reg I would never do that again and because I couldn’t afford to continue on the level, I wanted off. That’s when they decided they would carry me on invoice, because I had “contributed so much to the church”. Here I was, a “celebrity” being carried, while six month check after six month check I heard people reg friends, acquaintances and strangers for money to continue. I know of instances when they couldn’t come up with bucks, they were not carried, but sent home. I was constantly approached by IAS reg’s, Super Power reg’s at Flag, at CC Int and at AOLA. And I saw others being constantly approached as well. Whenever I balked, because I truly was struggling to stay afloat, I was told it was my “reactive mind” trying to stop my progress.
    I finally got out of debt and exploded my career and finances when I LEFT THE LEVEL AND THE CHURCH!. So Pouw, and all you OSA purveyors of horse manure, and you kool-aide drinking ostriches who have your heads firmly stuck into two feet of concrete, give us all a break and disappear!

  31. Thank you to Hy and Brian for speaking out. I know how hard it is to do with all the attacks that come your way, but you did the right thing.

    Hy, every former Sea Org can relate with your observation about appreciating the simpliest things that most people take for granted, when you finally got away – like a cup of coffee in the morning, and not having to run to a muster!! I am glad you are able to enjoy those simple things again.

    To Brian, your experience sounds like having to run through the Gauntlet just to get to your hotel room! You are right however regarding Auditors. The fact that DM uses them to solicit donations shows how corrupt he has become, turning even the sacred auditor preclear relationship into a plea for more money!

    The fact that Karen Pouw acknowledges this to be a fact and sees nothing wrong with it is utterly amazing!! My jaw was on the ground for that one!

    Thanks again.

  32. I think we can expect the numbers of people leaving the Vulture Culture and joining the Independents to drastically increase after they read this series of articles in the St Pete Times.

  33. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  34. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Hy and Brian.
    Both of you did an incredible job.
    The cult is truly disgusting. Their continuous attempts to discredit whistle blowers and when they say that it is all lies, is very hard to listen to .
    Hy, your story was very moving and I thank you for your courage to go against the cult of muddcabbage.
    Brian, your account will ring true for any public person who was ever at Flag during the “basics” fiasco. Thanks again to both of you.

  35. Tony DePhillips



    I am so glad that they love me and are there for me 24/7. They are the most precious bots around.
    I guess I will have to take my “next step now!!!!!!!!” because of your tone 40 command.

  36. Hy, Brian and the St. Pete Times
    Thank you!
    The revelation (and confession from the church) that the reg offices are bugged is as shocking as the discovery that auditing sessions are secretly filmed.
    Big brother is watching you and in the infamous words of Tom Cruise the motto at Flag now is “SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!”
    Karin Pouw – liar liar pants on fire. What’s the name of the company in Clearwater that brokers home equity loans for parishioners again – the one Benny Weinrab insisted we go to when we told him all of our credit cards were maxed?… hmm – I forget… they were very helpful in brokering a $200,000 loan deal for us though (to pay off our $100,000 debt and leave another $100,000 ‘spare’ to give to the IAS) … I’ll check with my ex-husband and get back to you on that one 🙂

  37. Head count on all the Scientologists who have filed bankruptcy over the last 5 years please? My ex-husband is one of many.

  38. Thank you so much Hy for this interviews!!
    Hugs and Respect to you from me too!!

  39. Thank you very much for speaking out, Hy and Brian.

    Scientology itself and real Scientlogists are more important than the corrupt “Church”.

  40. Considering what the Times COULD have reported on, the church should actually be pleased with the story. Imagine if they had talked to Mat Pesch who worked in Treasury for many years. Oh, wait. This was only Part 1? Uh-oh.

  41. Hy,
    You did an excellent job!
    With crisp and clear words, the message hit the mark.
    Miscavige is into greed and Flag is the cornerstone of it.

    Old Russia and the Czar fell because of greed.
    My mission, of course, was spiritual.


  42. Interesting point about monitoring private conversations. The rebuttal from Flag is that they comply with Florida law. Really? I don’t know Florida law, however most jurisdictions have an awareness type clause where the person being monitored has to consent.

  43. I’m relieved to see this aspect of Radical Scientology being exposed for what it is, a “Vulture Culture”. I’m thankful that Hy, Brian and others spoke out, and shared what we all know to be true.

    The response of Radical Scientology alone, is enough to create even more of a mass exodous from their dwindling membership.

    The financial pressure and unusual solotuions regarding money has and is ruining the lives of many, making it almost impossible to maintain any gain gotten from Scientology.

  44. Mark,

    I am sure you are right.

    The Truth Rundown impinged on a lot of people, but for a lot of KoolAid drinkers they could dismiss the wholle thing as sort of unreal. They didnt experience a lot of what was reported on, so it was easy to dismiss as “just SPs nattering.”

    Not so this series. The RCS has created the perfect audience for this topic. Every single Scientologist that reads it will think to themselves “yeah, I had the same thing happen to me….” Then they will read the Church’s response and it will, right per the policy, Dead Agent the Church (not the SP Times) as anyone who is a Scientologtist knows that the response contains documented lies.

    And if anyone in the Church thinks the Flag public isnt going to read this, they have their heads firmly implanted in either their own or POB’s dung funnel. I happened to be with some local Scientologists last nite and at 8:48 pm the emails and texts started flying “Have you seen the SP Times?” And these were coming from people in “good standing” not “apostates.”

    Can’t wait for the Freedumb responding — should be ready in 3 or 4 months…

  45. Hy and Brian:
    Thank you for speaking what has really happened!
    I knew about the pressure to sell . Our sessions were listened by others, which violates the confidential part of auditing.
    The Radical Scientology is really a money crab problem that is also tax exempt. I would love to see them paying taxes, because it is truly a business.

  46. That Karin Pouw is a liar is true. And she is not alone. Every member of the church that has ever done any kind of business with me has lied. Either they make up policies that don’t exist and pretend they are following them and/or they twist the policies that do exist and pretend they don’t need to be followed. In my opinion that IS illegal, by ANY standard, whether written by L. Ron Hubbard or not. And especially when it comes to tax exemption that give the church more time and money to commit crimes than ever and pretend it is a religion that is behind it. Very well said Luis. Perhaps DM should re-do HIS OT IV if in fact he ever got it in the first place! 🙂

  47. Mark,

    Pouw’s statements rank up there with Tommy Davis’ for a good reason.

    They are written by the same person — just delivered by a different sock puppet. Tommy is off enjoying “a well earned break” with Heber, Guillaume, Yager and Co. or has blown and not yet surfaced, so the next item of cannon fodder steps up. Used to be that Karin was too low on the totem pole for POB to deal with, but harsh times call for harsh measures. And when she is all there is left, well, we are building a world with broken straws.

    I assure you these responses were written by POB and then carefully vetted by Monique Yingling. A media flap of this magnitude requires the genius of Dave. Nobody else is capable of dealing with this — he has to micromanage everything as you know. These idiotic responses are SO classic DM, most especially the “we are complying with Florida law” (strange response, but he is convinced that the State Attorneys’ Office is looking for a way of “getting” him as he “outsmarted them” on the McPherson case), the new official designation of the SUper Power building as “our cathedral” and the blind men describing an elephant to attempt to demean Tom Tobin and Joe Childs. Absolute classic POB…

  48. Hy and Brian…Oh my God how could you??? …Telling the truth like that!!! You’ve Flag in PANIC mode! I run a taxi bus in Clwr and before 8 A.M. this morning security was on the corner of the Coachman at Cleveland and N. Ft Harrison. Later I took a passenger who arrived late last night (they stayed at the Residence Inn on Court street which happens frequently) to the Osceola Hotel across from the Sandcastle and security is guarding all the driveways. Haviva was out there w/ security saying who can and who can’t come on the property. On a Sunday morning Starbucks has a gaggle of SO members getting coffee. Not today. Not a single one! And the buss system is in full tilt taking people from the Clearwater Bank Building chow hall on the one way side street (Waters?) all the way around the long block to the Coachman. Not a single SO person on the! WOW…what an effect! Good job!

  49. Martin Padfield

    If the freedumb response is as good as the 2009 one then it will be a 90 page foot bullet and excellent indie tool to help others wake up. I have oft quoted bits from that issue on this blog because it is such a sublime work of fantasy. The punch line, in case anybody never saw it, is that the cult denies DM never saw any evil, heard any evil or spoke any evil, and of course is revered by millions. Yet somehow, mysteriously, a bizarre and extensive culture of abuse and violence was taking place under his very nose. Detailed by an official spokesman. So… Just to be clear, under the stewardship of micro-managing DM, an extensive culture of shocking violence and bullying was taking place, as confirmed by the Church, but the Revered One was oblivious to any of it. Quite clear? Good.

  50. ” ‘Fundraisers do not persuade or pressure parishoners to take on debt’, spokewoman Pouw said.”

    Lest we forget, following Dr. Denk’s death on November 5, 2004 and shortly after his memorial service, I was contacted by Howard Becker of the IAS. Howard Becker would be a “fundraiser” according to spokeswoman Pouw.

    Howard wanted me to “get briefed” on the IAS by watching the Tom Cruise video. During the course of our conversation, he asked didn’t I want to be like Tom Cruise?

    Howard suggested I take out a home equity loan to raise my status in the IAS. This was because “COB has a really big situation.” Howard wanted use of the Denk name “to get others to do the same.”

    At the time I had this conversation with fundraiser Howard Becker, I had already had a change of D of P (Director of Processing) and CS (Case Supervisor) through Flag. I had not been supported to return to Flag by ASI (Author Services Inc.); instead I had been routed off post and out of the org. My home trash had been gone through and strewn throughout the trash area. I had been precipitously contacted by Dr. Price to get involved in the business affairs, after he had attacked Dr. Denk in writing shortly before his death. See the post called “Settin’ the Record Straight.”

    On the home front, I had the loss of my thirty year husband and the loss of trust in those who should have cared, and offered succor and support. It was far easier to handle the $50,000 in medical bills received due to Dr. Denk not being medically insured.

    I believe this comment adequately corrects this statement: “Fundraisers do not persuade or pressure parishoners to take on debt.” Rest assured, there are far more actions taken than simply talking about taking on debt. There’s incredible pressure placed on a parishioner to donate, especially the widow of LRH’s doctor. I know because I had to put up with all of it.

    I have commented about this yet again, lest we forget … Rachel

  51. Jim, my guess that PL got thrown out with the GAT!

  52. mrinder, you are spot on! this one will be real hard to “not-is”.

  53. Sam and this is done all in the name of FREEDOM and how bad it all is in the big bad world!!!!!! gawd those accepting this shit to pass down on others need a huge reality adjustment!

  54. transporter, they can’t hide for long!! Like hiding is going to change anything!

  55. Ain’t that the truth!

  56. Re: the Church response:
    The Church claims everything done to obtain money from parishioners, other than “isolated incidents”, is in accordance with Church policy. In no particular order:
    1. Apparently the policy quoted by Jim Logan must no longer exist as it forbids:Donations (other than a very modest membership fee per policy on membership, i.e. the HASI policies) to the IAS; donations for Idle Orgs and “the Cathedral”; donations for Library campaigns and sending full Basics packages to anyone and everyone; and on and on and on…apparently all of these fundraising and donation campaigns are “isolated incidents.” Apparently the CoM has also become the “Church of Isolated incidents.”
    2. Apparently all the Church thinks it needs to say is that exposed abuses and perversions of LRH’s intentions violate Church policy, and thus they could not have actually happened, therefore reports of such abuses and perversions must be lies. Of course the more logical conclusion — that the Church doesn’t follow LRH policy — should not be drawn.
    3. The persons giving information in support of the abuses and perversions of policy are all apostates and all apostates always lie all the time. The religious scholar who once wrote an expertise on the subject of apostasy and the tendency of apostates to sensationalize their experiences would roll over in his grave if he knew how his expertise has become the push button response to deflect all criticism and exposure of abuses in the Church. And that’s leaving aside the issue of the Church falsely labelling everyone who got fed up and decided to just say NO as an apostate when minimally the vast majority of such persons do not even fit the definition of aposate.
    4. The Church has worked “tirelessly” to reduce the cost of materials for parishioners. It would have been a lot less tiring, and considerably less expensive to produce and offer digital versions of all the materials.
    5.In the main article, Karin Pouw claims Hy Levy embellished figures (obviously meaning inflated the figures). In the Church’s written response it claims that the amount of funds it is fundraising are far MORE than the “few disaffected apostates” are claiming. Make up your mind.
    6. Karin says Karen West never abuses Hy Levy. Karin has zero actual knowledge of anything Karen West ever did or said in relation to Hy, unless she was actually there and witnessed every comm cycle — unless she has some heretofore unrevealed power to permeate through space and time. Karin, give us all a break.
    7. And Karin, I suppose you know nothing about the near-full time (including sleep time) regging by ILO staff of anyone and everyone to buy Basics packages for themselves and the rest of the world, staff off post almost entirely for weeks/months on end, staff who, if they did not make a sale in any given day were not allowed to secure except maybe for a couple hours that night and were on rice and beans the next day, were subject to being put on the meter at anytime if they had not made a sale in the last hour or two, staff who if they did not make sales in several days were subject to Courts of Ethics, staff who in desperation to make a sale would end up donating their own money for Basics packages to be sent to the ends of the world. Come on Karin, tell me none of that ever happened either and that all said here are just lies from disaffected apostates, or isolated incidents of policy violation that were never condoned by Church management (while the RTC Rep ILO and CO CMO IXU cracked the whip over the whole sorry mess).
    Karin and the ghost authors behind the scenes, come again.
    The problem is you are not a blind person feeling an elephant. You feel and see the elephant very well, you just pretend it is not in the middle of the room.

  57. Foremost, you are not kidding. A long, long time ago, when I was a teenager still, and my parents went with me to the Org in New York to find out more about Scientology. My mother had a private conversation with one of the Reg/Ethics Officers/Div 6 hat holders where the staff tried to explain to her how people paid for these services because my mother had commented that the auditing there was kind of pricey. It is not from this staff member that I knew, but my mother who told me later at home about it. My mother asked “How do they pay for these things Sally?” and Sally said “Oh, they sell their houses, take out loans, some have insurance policies and stocks and such”. And my mother asked her “And what if they don’t have it?” That was the end of that “cycle” at that question! 🙂

  58. Hy, Thank you for your story. Many of the things you said brought back memories of PAC and what we went through there….Lisa

  59. Old and no longer used, Jim.

    Current policy is, “Suck ’em dry.” Honest. it’s in an LRH advice dave got directly from Ron’s notes.

  60. Rachel, I like the way you’ve reversed this on Howard Becker. He wanted to use the name Denk to get others to do the same? Well guess what, you’re doing it! Be careful what you wish for Howard.

    Pretty neat when you think about it but Dr. Denk is still helping people, just in a different way than before. His very well known and highly respected name is now being used to tell people the truth to save them from harm. Gotta love it.

  61. Mike, I thought Hy did an excellent job. And Dave, if he in fact wrote the C of S official comments, balanced the seriousness of Hys expose with comic relief 2nd only to Baghdag Bob. I actually laughed out loud at a few of them. I wasn’t sure if those C of S comments were made to be funny or not. Tell the truth – is Dave Miscaviage really and honestly that stupid?

    ML Tom

  62. Damn, Hy, this is going to create an effect. All the people you know and have regged over the years are gonna see this. Karin Pouw’s statements in rebuttla are going to do even more damage to the church than anything you or Brian said.

  63. A robber with a gun says “Your money or your life”. The “Church” says “Your money AND your life. I was “regged” for my life to the Church. I gave 23 years to the SO and left all but dead dying of AIDS (See Freewinds, off course and off purpose) After I was all but dead after being sent by the Church to a chiropractor who was not even a licensed medical doctor (They will deny this, saying that Chuch policy says to senfd ill persons to a doctor.) This is almost true, LRH policy does say to send people to the doctor, but who says that the Church follows LRH policy? Then, when I was all but dead my wife called the ship. She was advised by them to take me to a hospice to die. In a hospice one does not get treatment for his illness, they only make him comfortable until he is dead. So the End Phenomena of the Church’s advice is DEATH. When my wife failed to follow their advice and took me to the hospital, which saved my life at the last minute, I got on lines at AOLA. The reg there got my wife to take out a second mortgage on the house and give them 30K for my Solo to OTIII package. Then I could not even get the service delivered which she paid for. I had RTC OK to be on service there but just could not get them to deliver. Then the “basics thing happened and we were getting 4 or 5 callls a day pressuring me to give money from my account for basics packages to be sent around the world. I slowly was worn down and gave them the money. Now I have nothing to show for it. They take your desire to help others and clear the planet and the only thing they are clearing is your bank account. Now my wife (if we are still married) will have to work the rest of her life to pay for a service that I will never receive. This does not even take into account the damage that the BPC caused our marriage.

  64. Thanks Mike for the information. Very enlightening.

    This whole ridiculous response game reminds me of Baghdad Bob! lol

  65. (This is an addition to my last comment) The Church will probably have a new course called the DEATH ORIENTATION COURSE. On this course you will learn your “HAT IN DEATH” . On the “Life Orientation Course I was “directed to the Hat of “Mechanics Chief Freewinds” a post I held for 13 years. My “HAT IN DEATH” that they were steering me towards would have been to be a martyr for the Church, to get others by my example to give their lifes and wallets to the Church. Fortunately for me they had offloaded me by then so I could not be required to do the Course.

  66. Excellent point Mike.

    Also the fact that neither you or Marty or any of us who spoke to the SP Times before were even included in these articles for comment really undermines DM’s attempts to attack this series of articles as “a group of disgruntled apostates” following their leader “Kingpin”.

    As you say, every public Scientologist has been through this money Gauntlet and can relate.

    I showed the article and videos to some non Scientology friends and the numbers come across as staggering to them! They had no idea how much money was being extracted from the public.

  67. They wanted to know where all that money was going!

  68. (I just remembered another one which is relevant) I did a COMMITTEE OF EVIDENCE on while on the ship around 1994. He was the FSSC Mexico and he was “making” a lot of money for the ship in Mexico. On Parishioner who was on staff in Mexico City was being “regged by him. He told him that he had no money Being a slick talker he somehow talked him into giving him his credit card number saying that he WOUND NOT use the card. He then “sold ” the person courses by just using the number to charge the card. When the person got the statement he could not pay it, being on staff and told the bank that he did not authorize the charge. The bank wanted him to go to the police to file a report and then the charge would be cancelled. He could not do that as he would have then been declared supresssive by the Church for turning them over to the police.
    We found him Guilty and recommended that he be sent to the RPF and I wrote a report to the FBO advising them to pay back the stolen money.As the org was not making much money then, as it was in the lowest Condition of Exchange i.e robbery they instead send him back to Mexico to rob more people to get money to pay back the persons he had already robbed (There were more than one.) So the org was Guilty of the Crime of Recieving Stolen Property and were Accessories to the Robbery.

  69. Michael-I hated that “if you pay, you will make all this money” -I ran across so many victims of this lie. Its like the Catholic Church of olden days-you will get to heaven if you tithe-it doesn’t matter if you are a criminal or a murderer, no need to handle oneself spiritually-just give us your money. Just like you, my finances have done alot better since I left, because I am no longer PTS!

  70. Yes, two people that public will listen to and relate to. More truth revealed.
    Hy, having been a registrar myself, I understand you just knew the tech would solve their case and it’s true, what’s that worth? Priceless. Unfortunately, and what you’ve obviously realized too, it doesn’t work that way anymore in the corporate church. The system is rigged for money, not results. Thank you for speaking out.

  71. Mark,

    Yes, I bet those numbers are staggering to people.

    The first day has only covered regging for services — which as gross as it is, really isnt in the same order of magnitude as the regging for the IAS/IdleOrgs and “Super Power.”

    What would be amazing to most Scientologists is the amounts collected by IAS and Super Power. WHile they are told their 10, 20, 30, 100 or 500 thousand is “desperately needed now” for a “COB project” — the truth of the matter is that they collect 10 times what they spend and the biggest issue Miscavige has to deal with is being told by Monique that they HAVE to spend some money (you cannot accumulate excessive reserves as a 501c3). This is why you see the building purchases. The spending is good for maintianing exampt status, but it also keeps the money in the organization as the buildings become assets. No use spending the money on campaigns to build schools for children in Africa — that money would just be “wasted.” Better to send Tim Bowles and video team there with a bunch of books (that someone gave money for in a separate reg cycle) and shoot some footage in some huts, then leave and show the video for a year or so and collect another 10 or 20 mil on an outlay of $50,000.

    This is where the REAL sickness is.

  72. Brilliant summation! I do believe we should call ourselves “advocates,” because that’s really what we are. Rachel

  73. Tom — Agree with you 100% on Hy and Brian. Very REAL. Very CLEAR. Very HONEST.

    As for Baghdad POB — he really IS that stupid. His problem is that he lives in an unreal world. To him, the SP Times and anyone who speaks to them are SPs and “small thetans” and they can all be dismissed with disdain. So, his responses are unreal and he has no idea the effect they will cause. He is only worried about one thing in writing these responses — protecting himself from criminal/IRS scrutiny. Nothing else matters to him and nothing else is important to him. And he could NEVER EVER admit that there was something wrong and that the church wass taking steps to correct it — you just dont ever admit anything to SPs! They truly can be lied to with impunity.

    But his disdain for all the SPs who are trying to destroy him rubs off on his attitude to the other “little people.” They dont matter to him and their plights are of their own making (I can see him sitting there telling Lou “These idiots that went into debt deserve everything they get, I never went into debt, I have always had plenty of money…”).

  74. HereNow — Perfect comment.

    In the words of the immortal POB “You tore her a new asshole…”

  75. +1 So true!

  76. Bill-Jesus! What a story. it is quite remarkable that the hospital saved your life from AIDs-you must have the condition considerably under control.

  77. The “Church” says “Your money AND your life.

    The “Church” says “Your money AND your life and your eternity. There, fixed it.

    Bill, it sounds to me like they left you for dead. (By the way, the cult has no right to recommend who should go to Hospice.) Once they realized you weren’t going anywhere, the financial pillaging began. Totally disgusting.

    In time it’ll all come down. I have no idea what the galvanizing event will be that mobilizes the Feds but I do believe it’ll happen.

  78. Hy- That was powerful. Its was a powerful experience for me to watch your video.

    Some gave money. Some gave years.

    There is a fundamental betrayal that is so compelling and beyond the scope of what I care to ever have anyone experience within the realm of Corporate Scientology. It is a soul less, emotionally absent, anti- intellectual enterprise that has violated so many basic human decencies in the name of “responsibility” “ethics” and other “words”

    Hopefully this is a wake up call.

  79. Tommy Davis’ (in)famous sentence “there is no such thing as disconnection” reminds me at some other big liars infamous words.
    Two months before the Berlin Wall went up in 1961, Walter Ulbricht, then head (dictator) of the East German “German Democratic Republic”,
    said the now infamous sentence: “No one has the intention of building a wall…”

    Luckily I grew up in the free West Germany and was not subjected to their lies and Stasi-methods – then.
    Later, I got some taste of it during being in the SO.

    Hy and Brian, thank you for speaking up!!!


  80. Under Brian’s story, I quote “Fundraisers are enthusiastic but always polite and respectful and fully understanding of “no” “. I challenge you to read this aloud and not bust up laughing.

  81. Tony Dephillips

    You are right. Total bullshit.

  82. Marty,

    This, to me, was more impinging than even the TRUTH RUNDOWN. With the help of the Times, Hy and Brian communicated better than anyone I have seen before WHY we put up with the abuse, pressure, threats, exorbitant costs, failed results, impossible circumstances and demands, etc.

    Whether staff, public, or SO members working 100 hours a week for $50,00, we gave so much, were willing to sacrifice so much, because we thought we were helping, making a difference, working to build a better world, a better future for our families, children and humanity.

    Though I don’t know Hy personally, I do know Brian. It is almost incomprehensible how self destructive the COS has become. Brian is one of the most compassionate and spiritual people I know, he doesn’t enjoy conflict or battle. I am confidant, had the COS only treated him fairly, issued promised refunds and repayments in accordance with their own policies, letting him move on with his life, he would never have taken the time or effort for media interviews. The COS with its own actions created this series of articles more definitively and definitively with their current actions than even they can deny!

    Brian was the type of person that DM was trying to build his new COS out of, young, hip, good looking, successful, athletic, etc. Now, for millions to see, he has honestly and compassionately shown how the COS uses them, sucking the life out of them and moving on. This, and oncoming media and the ongoing exodus with the COS responding with cancelling refunds despite LRH policy and IRS requirements, is proof, if nothing else that corporate Scientology is not even trying to win or grow, but is dominated with a narcissistic egocentrically self importance and “having to be right” that there future is doomed.

    The passion of the whistleblowers is only comparable to the strength their dedication to helping, and the depths of corporate Scientology betrayal of such.

  83. Oy Mike – you really have it right (as with your other reports and observations).
    The “church” hunts for those individual Scientologists who are, ON THEIR OWN, working to create a better community or world. They then grab up the project, give it a gratutious donation, and then spin the story that they are behind it, and give the impression to unsuspecting members that the project exists because of the IAS.

    There are a lot of little and big lies (under the guise of “acceptable truths”) that the church uses to weave a positive perception with its members. All that artificial flavor in that Kool Aid makes me SICK.

  84. Hy and Brian,

    Thank you for speaking out and sticking your necks out for the rest of us. Your care and compassion for others inspires me. You both brilliantly spoke the truth. I know have helped so many through your actions. Thanks again, ml, Laura Ann

  85. Scott Campbell

    Wow. These guys (Childs and Tobin) are great. I like their un-embellished “just the facts” style of reporting. It really comes across well.

    Hy and Brian are composed and natural. Obviously they were just telling the truth and not trying to force any assertions or follow any agenda.

    Great reporting, guys.

  86. Actually, I wasn’t interviewed for this series but I will say that having been both the Dissem Sec (executive over the Department of Registration) and the Treasury Sec FSO, I can confirm that what Hy is saying is completely accurate.

    I really wish that the “church” was capable of recognizing outnesses in itself that are causing them to implode and correct then them. Their robotic response is DENY and ATTACK, even when good intentioned staff and public try to report something internally. Responsible Scientologists have been left with no choice but to go external to the “church” with their reports and efforts to bring about awareness and hopefully reform.

    Disconnection, money fixation and gross out-tech have become the hallmarks of the current “church” and their staff and public, deep down, KNOW this. When their spokespeople publicly deny the obvious, it forces the conclusion that reform and change is NOT possible and the disappointed members leave.

    There is no staff member below Miscavige with the slightest ability to bring about a change. Staff have two choices — they can either leave or they can ignore the obvious and continue to dance to the music. Walking out the door with little to nothing (including friends and family) is enough of a deterrent to keep many dancing. Those that do have the courage and integrity to walk out and speak out (like Hy) have my respect.

  87. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Michael,
    Totally real to me what you say here.
    I was on OT7 and got off three times for different reasons but mostly financial.
    I realized finally to be “Cause over life” I had to be at cause over my own church. I couldn’t make any sense out of the things they were doing. It seemed so abberated.
    I did finally get at Cause over the church (cult). I left it and I too flourished and prospered after getting away from that insanity.
    By the way I saw you on TV the other day while I was seeing one of my customers, you looked great and very relaxed. It was the deep relaxation you can see in someone when they get away from suppression.

  88. Mike,

    It is my understanding NONE of the IAS donations have in fact been spent, projects are funded from Orgs or SOR, or from a portion of the interest. Contrary to IRS requirements for 501C3s, it is DM policy that all principle is to remain, overhead,grants and projects are to be funded through interest alone.

    2006 there was a billion dollars, from what I heard, current levels are estimated at 1.5 billion in IAS coffers. A 3% annual return on this amount is $45 million a year, or $123,000 a day INTEREST!!!

  89. Hy, you were one of my favorite Flag terminals always. Common denominator of “favorite Flag terminals” for me was, use of ARC, comm that was real, and willingness to do what one could to actually HANDLE an origination.

    Your use of the word “morphed” is very appropriate. I believe many who are still “in” simply have not taken the time to scan their own tracks to compare what Scientology WAS compared to what it has become. The “evolution” from what was to what is reminds me of one of those computer generated morphs where a nice face gradually changes into something reptilian. In this case, so slowly that many otherwise intelligent people still have not noticed the transformation.

    There is a brand new article at that once again lays out in stark detail how the use of LRH stats has been done away with by DM and replace with a bunch of totally BS phony “stats”. What I really like about the articles on this website is that they show exactly how the “morphing” of the various key components of Scientology has been accomplished by DM over the last 30 years. I highly recommend that readers of this blog – especially newbies or lurkers with a willingness to LOOK take a few moments to read the 4 or 5 articles that have been posted on that site. They will blow your mind.

  90. Tony Dephillips

    Be afraid. Be VERY afraid. 🙂

  91. Just curious, the article says,
    “The church did not address whether parishioners were informed about the system when reges made phone solicitations.” Does this mean phone calls were recorded, too?

  92. Tony Dephillips


  93. Tony Dephillips

    Go Bill go! Go Bill Go!!!

  94. Rasputin. I thought Merlin and Rasputin were one and the same. One a later version of the other. Christ.

  95. Bert Schippers

    Hy & Brian, great interviews! Thank you for speaking out!

  96. Thanks Mike. Yes DM has alot of personal money he has amassed over the years.

    Funny, you don’t see him donating most if not all his money to Scientology, the IAS or whatever – when all of his personal expenses are paid for by Scientology and the IAS.

    In the real world, many billionaire owners of companies will only take a $1 salary each year and many, like Bill Gates, donate billions to charity.

    Hell will have to freeze over before DM donates his personal wealth.

  97. Mountaineering

    When reaching for the summit one can find strange climbing buddies,
    Many fall at the foothills, those who persist reach the lower slopes and look for a route up.
    When no clear route is seen we traverse around the Mountain, when severe weather sets in we look for a climbers hut.
    Strange company we meet in those huts, climbers who have come from the other side of the mountain, who speak a different language, have different equipment but share the same unique desire, different from their own kinsmen, they become comrades in the storm.
    These are truly special relationships; they overcome their differences to unite in the same goal, reaching the summit.

    Keep moving up higher, it isn’t the equipment but the shared experiences and comrades that will get you there!

  98. In my area, I estimate conservatively as much as 1/3 had done a Bankruptcy while having been on Church lines, and some had done them twice, even 3 times. Not that I have any Love for Banks or Credit Card Companies, but it’s these that ultimately end up holding the Ball.

  99. Li'll bit of stuff

    Mike, GOOD yo see you rested !? ( after Dublin sojourn) and back at the “turrets” using your laser sharp “sights”.

    On a serious note; what, if any, “noise” are you aware of, has been bandied about,in terms of the MEDIA having asked questions specifically regarding the MENTAL STABILITY of the “CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD ”

    Curious, Li’ll bit

  100. First LOL of the day and a loud one at that! Fully understanding of “no.” That just brings up reams of charge to laugh off.

  101. So Jim, what you’re saying here is that fundraising itself is in violation of church policy, so the statement that the fundraising is being done according to church policy just sort of locks up and flies out of one’s head, like trying to contemplate “the square root of negative one.” LOL again.

  102. Wonderful interviews Hy & Brian! I really admire what you guys have done! I will right more comments on the SPT website in the hopes that many current parishoners will read them.

  103. Mike, you are right about the lies standing out like that. Tommy Davis’ lies were the thing that got me to start looking, when I was still too afraid to read the Truth Rundown and went instead to the rebuttal. It’s funny that the church’s own lies are the arrows strong enough to pierce their armor plate defenses.

  104. This was because “COB has a really big situation.”

    Last Time I had a Big Situation I was sent to Ethics … lol. I don’t recall anyone suggesting I collect Money from anyone.

    Yes, the “Big Situation” is and has been for 25 Years that the Church is not managed by Boards & Committees.

  105. My husband and I read Big League Sales early on when starting our company. We understood the concept that was used in Scientology that you know the person needs the service so you are doing anything it takes to get them to buy it because it will be good for them. But we could not see using those techniques on our customers.
    Then we read a book called “Spin-Selling” which actually surveyed the subject of hard sell and found that for retail consumers, on anything over $100, the instant hard-sell started the person turned off completely. For commercial buyers the situation was different, but there was an underlying consideration that the buyer would be in trouble back at his company if he made an expensive mistake, so at a certain level, hard sell turned them completely negative too. For this reason we have never used hard-sell in our company. We use communication, finding out what the customer wants, showing them how we can provide that, and continuing to communicate. WOW! Magic formula.
    I never appreciated hard-sell on purchasing my auditing, and having it used on the IAS donations and the Ideal Org donations was utterly repulsive.
    May God give us the good sense in the future to know what we know. LOL

  106. I’m really surprised so few understand that the “regging” is the first line of assault to undermine the individual’s own perceptions and self-determinism (freedom of choice). When he is forced into making payments that violate his own ethics, he is thereafter in session on someone else’s determinism, and auditing is thus guaranteed to be at best only partially effective. As famous money-man Gordon Gekko would put it, DM understands that “Sheeep, is goood!!!!! !!! !!!!!! ! !!!”

    When an individual compromises his own morals, values, and rightness, he starts down a very insidious path of decay. This is the “secret” behind the current Co$, and you may witness the human devastation for yourself. If LRH sees this, he has shed angry tears over it.

    Anecdotally, every single time I have been cajoled into buying something I did not really want, or felt I could not really afford, I have ended up throwing it away with disdain. How childish, eh?

    One does not “go OT” by attempting forced and desperate leaps. One goes OT gradiently by clearing up one’s issues in this present life, by truly understanding one’s parents and family, one’s teachers, one’s town or city, one’s culture, and one’s own role of responsibilities in this present life. One learns to audit, and one audits!! One then expands this solid new understanding, with clarity of love and good feeling, to previous lives. One thinks perhaps of parents, friends, families, times, past. One begins to grasp the responsibilities of being a being, as opposed to being a body, and there you have OT.

  107. Mirari,
    Luis Garcia has found a lawyer in Clearwater willing to take on the church on the fact that refusing to refund the money makes them liable for triple damages, etc. Call Luis or Bert for details. Lynne

  108. Sam, I keep thinking back over IAS reg cycles and the fact that the interviews were bugged. It explains how Breggin so conveniently showed up behind my husband and me to double team us when Bridget wasn’t getting us to fork over the money! LOL It just keeps blowin’ down!

  109. Good Point !!!

    What the Church refers to as “Apostates” or “Disaffected” are 100% loyal Scientologists true to L. Ron Hubbards Philosophy and Application who take Exception to the Alteration of his Technology and object to Money Scamming perpetuated by a “Handfull” of it’s completely corrupt current Leadership. The “Disaffection” is entirely related to the Anti-Social Acts perpetrated by the existing organizational Church against it’s Parishioners, not the Philosophy and religion of Scientology itself.

    As such, the labels “Apostates” or “Disaffected” are merely generalities that do not distinguish between the two, and are in fact incorrect Designations.

  110. We could make a list of church “service facsimiles”–those computations that make it right to dominate or harm another, etc.. #1 would be, “He is an SP, therefore it is okay to do any bad thing to him.” (This itself violates the tech on not committing overts on SPs because you wind up PTS to them.–so is the church PTS to Marty, Mike, etc.? I think it is.) Another computation is “the greatest good for the greatest number,” when LRH specifically said that was the wrong wording, it always comes out with “me” weighted against millions and therefore I should sacrifice. I’m sure people could add many more computations here. Love, Lynne

  111. Sara, I’m sure the consent for eavesdropping will be added to the fine print of the long, long forms you have to sign before you can get auditing. Just imagine if you went to buy a car and you had to sign a form that said, “I realize I may be ripped off but I hereby give prior consent to not having any legal recourse. I understand that my conversations with the sales person may be monitored to aid the sales person in making the sale based on personal information kept on me in another room. I agree that if I complain about the car or sales technique I will be declared a persona non grata and subjected to retaliation.” LOL

  112. Thank you Hy Levy and Brian Culkin for your reporting of the abuses of registration and money at Flag. I admire your courage in telling the truth. As a Flag public since 1975, both the Flagship Apollo and one of the first public persons at the Flag Land Base, i can attest to the truth of what they are saying. I have many horror stories I could relate about abuses and what lengths that I as a public person was pushed to get loans, and the incredible damage done to family and friends and relationships when those loans could not be paid back, or paid back on time.

    But instead of launching in to these stories, I would like to thank all of those who supported me on this blog a year ago today, when I came out as an Independent Scientologist. I came out because I was upset that my son had disconnected from me, and I didn’t know where he was and if he was O.K. Immediately after my announcement, a family member called to say he was O.K.

    During the past year I have taken many actions to handle disconnection, not only for myself but for others. I wanted to let all of you know that my son recently visited for three days a week or so ago, and now we are back in comm by text, email and phone. I didn’t know until yesterday if we had restored our comm line or not, after his visit, as I didn’t want to overwhelm him with communication. I wanted to wish him Happy Birthday and with his responses, realized “we ARE back in comm” !!!!. We are beginning to repair our relationship, and I am also repairing the other comm lines in my family. Today is his 21st Birthday, and I am happy because I know where he is and what he is doing. I have learned that love doesn’t die; it just gets buried, broken or suppressed, but it can be restored. Thanks to all of you for your wonderful postulates and support. You gave me the courage to do what I had to do, and gave me hope that this situation could be handled.

    My son came to visit because my mother is dying of cancer, and I have been by her bedside 24/7 for a month now. So I have not been posting much. My mother was upset that my son and i were disconnected, but she now knows that we are back to being mother and son again. I have been using what I know of Scientology to make her experience as good as possible.

    Thanks to all of you here onthis blog, and especially to those who are delivering the technology, for keeping the religion and philosophy of Scientology alive and working. We have made so much progress in a year, and the restoration of communication with my son makes this a significant anniversary for me.

    All my love,
    Catherine von Ach
    Austin, Texas

  113. Can someone tell David Miscavige that I will provide a foto of me if he promisses to put it on his revamped religious freedumb site.

  114. Great point Natalie about “making it almost impossible to maintain any gain…” Add to that the fact that having just dumped yourself into debt over your head to purchase the intensives before going INTO session is a PTP that blocks session gains in the first place. Double whammy!

  115. Transporter, good info. They certainly don’t want to take a chance on anyone seeing the article on the newspaper lying on the table at Starbucks! And maybe someone will drive down the street and yell, “Read the SP Times expose and wake up!” Shake head, tch-tch!, poor souls!

  116. + 1 BECAUSE this is so TRUE!!!!!!

  117. Hy Levy
    You did something more than magnificent.
    You were a trail blazer to show others that those worthless documents you signed, signing away your rights were WORTHLESS !
    There are many who do not speak up believing those documents hold actual fines of $50,000 per violation !
    What codswallop !
    19 months to route out. I bet you had more sec checks than I did !
    19 months of holding you against your will after asking to leave.

  118. Bill, WOW!

  119. THIS is the truth of the matter at hand. See, one can, and will, get to the bottom of the BS that Corporate Scientology has been spewing forth.
    The truth shall prevail.

  120. Les,
    Of course! Baghdad POB got it from his vault of LRH notes!!! Or maybe the vault was in the “cathedral” somewhere? Or maybe it is just one of the advices Pat Broeker forged!

    Who knows where Dave gets this stuff. One thing for sure, with the “religiousity” thick in the official response to attempt to mollify the IRS, he’s certainly forgotten all about Scientologists reading these blatant lies and violations of LRH policy. Duh.

  121. There is one HUGE omitted in the “Church” response by the Tommy Davis
    replacement KAREN POUW.

    The actual TRUTH of the real estate scam.
    Duped Parishioners think they are PURCHASING their local Org so that it is owned free and clear for the local community.
    They are not.
    It belongs to the “Church of Scientology International” who then LEASES it back to the local Church for $$$$
    Every week the CSI cut which must come right off the top of their financial planning before the staff get any payroll.
    The local Church weekly revenue must pay all expenses, utilities, property taxes and renovations, furnishings,
    But CSI owns it. Every single “Ideal org” is a huge revenue source as they have to PAY the
    MOTHER CHURCH to lease it back, after all the locals paid for it !
    Some locals only paid thinking they would help starving staff and tat local payrolls would improve if the Org was owned by the local Church.
    Cof$ brags its expansion based on its real estate.

  122. top of the vale

    Michael, how is it when one becomes a Clear and no longer has a reactive mind can the following be true:

    “Whenever I balked, because I truly was struggling to stay afloat, I was told it was my “reactive mind” trying to stop my progress.”

    This truly demonstrates the epitome of their criminal regging techniques.

    This same thing was tried on me one time and my reply was, “Sorry, maybe my case but as my reactive mind no longer exists, you’ll have to come up with a different excuse.”

  123. Li'll bit of stuff

    Marty, More & More POWER to YOU & MOSEY. Geez, can ” FEEL ” the fallout from the BASE already ! This one’s gonna really hit the deformed one hard! Will Spread the S.P Times
    ripple even further, via the “backwash” (I’ll do my Li’ll bit too!)

  124. Laura Ann,

    Yes phone calls were monitored as well. The latest listen-in-system was built into the phone system and could monitor room conversations AND phone calls. I cannot say if they were recorded, but the facility was there to do so. In their response they state that signs were posted in reg areas letting public know that conversations could be monitored. In all the years I was a reg, no such signs existed. Possibly NOW they have put up signs so that they can make that statement, but even if they have, this wouldn’t inform someone being called (or who called in) that their conversation could also be monitored. In their response they did not address this point at all…because in fact no such notification was made.


  125. Same ol same ol from the House of Horrors. Geeze… there’s some truth in ‘the bigger they are the harder they fall’. There’s going to be some really shattered koolies in the not too distant future, we better be prepared for some most unpleasant realities being thrown our way.
    The St. Pete’s is one of the better KRs I’ve ever seen. The greese and sleaze of DMs fortress is developing some wide cracks. Truth’s a bitch hey?

  126. Karen#1,

    Love that word “codswallop”! Yes it took a bit of courage to just go ahead and do this. I guess I figured I would just check to see if the First Amendment to the Constitution was still alive and well. Since all I said was the truth, there should be no repercussions. I also have no skeletons in my closet that could be used to silence me, no family or business connections they could mess with. Even if they tried to fabricate and spread false stories about me, those people they might send it to know me for who I am and wouldn’t fall for that anyway.

    So far, no “black SUVs” are visible in my rear view mirror.


  127. Hy and Brian,
    First Hy; I have to say not having met you this life, that listening to you speak in this interview I want to tell you that your sincerity as a Reg, with the actual purpose of the post manifest, impressed me completely.

    I would be proud to have you in any org, any activity that I had any part of. Thank you for what you have done and if it means anything, I KNOW what you’ve done well and for sincere help far outweighs any of the other. Your courage to face up to those acts falling below your own ethical standard, and in broad public, is clear.

    Brian, I knew some of this story of course, but the gooey details, the ride from the airport, the arrival and the crassness of all that went on in that year at that place, well, that took some confront on my part to see just how far off the rails it has become.

    You laid it out in all its disgustingness, with a calm clarity that is impossible to deny. And then Dave tried, putting your factual account into stark relief – IT HAPPENED.

    Thank you for your tenacity Brian. And the guts to say what you observed.

  128. 🙂 – I think most us have many stories of how ‘no’ was not understood. I have a bunch that make me laugh heartily and sick at the same time thinking of what so many have endured.

  129. Does this apply to IAS too?

  130. Well she assed for it – or put another way, asshole is as asshole does.

  131. Carol- you say it like it is,girl!

  132. one of those who see

    Hi Catherine,
    I am so happy about your comm line to your son. Both your Mother and your son are very lucky to have you as a terminal.
    Sorry to hear about your Mother’s health. Please let her know that your friends are thinking of her and wishing her ease through this difficult time.

  133. Brian-you are such a wonderful being and it is painful to watch someone with such a good nature being taken advantage of in such a ruthless way.

  134. Mark — how right you are. He would rather walk naked down Hollywood Blvd than give any of his “hard earned” cash to anyone… B ut he expects everyone else to not only give their cash, but the cash they don’t have and what they might possibly get in the fufure. IF he believed the bullshit he spouts at the IAS events that people’s donations are being used for the greatest purpose on the planet, he would just turn over what he has and operate on $50 a week (or less) like everyone else does. He doesnt need money for anything other than his “exit strategy” when he finally acknowledges the gig is up.

  135. Mike-fascinating. Again i learn so much on this blog!

  136. Hy,

    Thanks for your response!
    I was a parishioner at Flag from 1986 to 2005. I never saw a sign of any kind saying interviews were monitored. In fact, I never had a clue this was happening.
    The phone call part honestly creeps me out.
    Thanks again, Hy!

  137. Absolutely correct! We are advocates. Rachel

  138. The overwhelming majority of current Parishioners in the Church do not like the incessant Harassments for Donations, but tolerate and fend them off as best as they can so that they can continue to receive the spiritual Benefits. If one writes Knowledge Reports, they will be ignored, if one does not attend Scientology “Forced Sales Feeding Frenzy” Events, he will looked down upon, if one complains too loudly, he will be “Sec Checked”, and if one takes legal Actions in the Form of “Restraining Orders”, he will be SP declared. It has all been set up in such Fashion that if one won’t tolerate serene ‘Nescafe Sunrises’ with swarming money-hungry Hornets, one is simply being offloaded one Way or the other. Hence I am here in the Freezone, and the Church is it’s best FSM yet.

    In a Way I’m glad Things are the Way they are. I have been able to move standardly up the OT Levels with massive Wins and Case Gain and I have no resultant Debts. The Church was merely a stuck Picture on the Track and I have moved on since. The full Benefits of the Scientology Philosophy cannot be realized in an extreme PTS Environment such as the Church (CO$) and if it’s ever going anywhere, it will only happen out here in the Freezone.

  139. LOL. I saw that too. “fully understanding of ‘no'” I cracked up at that one.

    The reges are fully understanding of how to ignore “no” and be completely disrespectful of “no”.

  140. one of those who see

    Hy and Brian,
    Thank you for your honest accounts of your experiences as Reg and Public. It was perfect that both can be viewed one after the other. I recognize that this took some confront to do so I also want to acknowledge your courage.
    Your recollections are real to me regarding my last cycles in the Church. In particular, the regging for the basics at a very inappropriate moment which caused an ARC X and undoing of the work of 2 other staff members. And being regged for them even when it was not the correct next thing for me to buy.
    The staff terminal I was dealing with was obviously desperate and had ceased thinking for herself regarding would be best for the public in front of her.
    It seems that in The Church, in the name of “being unreasonable,” manners and common sense have been thrown in the toilet. This was certainly the case with Brian’s experience.
    There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the MEST Universe! There is something wrong with being an idiot! And harassing a perfectly willing and wonderful public until he can’t stand to be there anymore is STUPID!
    I don’t usually rant, but couldn’t help it after watching Brian’s report.

    Thanks again guys!
    And Hy, thanks to you for all your years of caring for the public and for still caring. Hugs.

  141. Brian
    High Fives and congratulations.
    Superb TRs, natural demeanor,
    eloquence and great comm cycle.
    You are an ASSET to this community !

  142. Every single “Ideal org” is a huge revenue source as they have to PAY the MOTHER CHURCH to lease it back, after all the locals paid for it !

    … and that is the very core of the Scam.

  143. If one gets what one resists…
    ” protecting himself from criminal/IRS scrutiny.”

  144. Li'll bit of stuff

    Mike , thanks for this, 6.8 warning on the RINDER SCALE. I thought I detected some strange ‘tremors’ a little earlier.
    Heard some unconfirmed reports of explosions located in the vicinity of “CABBAGE HEAD CRATER”, that gaping, ponderous orifice, which has had throngs of miscavologists transfixed as they inexplicably swallowed the disgorgement which spewed forth,on frequently documented occasions !

    Seems the latest tremors are the result of New fissures and cracks in the miniscule, squat,supporting structure below , which has somehow managed to balance the gross “CABBAGE HEAD” formation on top. This 8th wonder of the
    world is only now beginning to get ‘it’s’ due recognition !!

    It appears that the entire structure is actually riddled with ‘FAULT LINES’ and therefore, being JUST MEST, it’s just a question of time before it explodes from within, where all the QUANTUM OVERT MATERIAL OF A LIFETIME
    will ‘spew forth’ far and wide and startle an incredulous world——–who have NEVER seen anything even remotely like THIS before!!! ——Too long a time coming though!

    Incredulous Li’ll bit

  145. Perhaps DM should re-do HIS OT IV….
    How about he starts with Grade IV?

  146. Karen,

    What an amazing source of truth you are.

  147. “IAS fundraisers are enthusiastic but always polite and respectful and fully understanding of ‘no.’ ”

    … absolutely providing you bring a ‘light-swing’ aluminum Bat with you.

  148. Are you carrying a complementary copy of the SP Times today for your passengers? Or maybe have one just laying on the seat with Hy’s picture showing.

  149. Q,

    All this juxtaposition of truth against lies certainly must help those still in realize that the PR they receive is just a series of lies meant to control them. You’re right, staff and public know that this stuff is true, yet the Church is saying it isn’t. So, the next natural question would be, “What else are they lying about?”

  150. The more I read about this, the sicker I get. The magnitude of betrayal is easy to miss. It’s so huge as to be unreal. What a disgusting abuse of trust.

  151. LRH said that hypnotism was just confusion. Get a person confused enough and you have hypnotized them. All of this reg stuff reeks of causing confusion in the individual so he can be controlled. Just play this big lie, over and over against the person’s ability to reason, destroy his stable data in an area and he gets confused.

    Then drive it in deep until the person just agrees to a new “reality.” You’ve completely alter-ised the person’s reality and the lie persists.

    Because the person now operates from out-reality, his ability to examine incoming data and make rational choices is undermined. His ability to understand is short-circuited.

  152. Lynne, it may be the fundraising IS done “according to church policy”. It’s just that current “church policy” completely contradicts LRH policy and the way he intended the churches to be run!

    Nowadays, it’s all lies and “doublespeak”, just as in the book “1984” – “Ignorance is Strength”, “War is Peace”, “Freedom is Slavery”.

  153. To Carol: You’re right…They can run but they cannot continue to hide.
    To Lynne: You’re also right in that the CO$ doesn’t want an SO to look over on a table and see the truth!
    About 11:15 this morning I was at the light at Pierce St (the street that runs along side the FH) about 4 or 5 cars back with my windows open waiting for the light to change. I was right in front of the FH and the Super Power building when someone in management yelled across the street to another management SO, (w/sidebars) , pointing south toward the Hess Station saying, “…there’s people walking on the street…go get them…get them off the street!” What a sit huh!

  154. Karen,
    This aspect of the scam is probably one of the most outrageous, especially when you consider the glee with which the “parishioners” (marks) drum up support and pay over to the CONS (Church of NO Scientology).

    They pay for the building and then DM charges them rent on their own property!

    He’s the definitive crim. Something for nothing. Those paying him for nothing are complicit in the crime. No man is an island and the Dynamics interweave.

  155. Grade II perhaps! 🙂

  156. Carcha,
    You get it and have communicated it so simply. The Reg hat is supposed to be about Enlightenment. Instead we have loan sharks, protection rackets, and extortion.

    The Church of NO Scientology is a lie. It is the Second Postulate – a commercial enterprise to line DAVE MISCAVIGE’S pockets, and those who line theirs along with him in this scam. The First Postulate is what independent Scientologists the world over are putting back. As long as we do, the lie will turn on, and with continuing to put the First Postulate there, run out.

    Scientology is a workable means of spiritual enlightenment. If it weren’t we wouldn’t have the spiritual implant station that is the Church of NO Scientology -CONS. Run by Baghdad POB.

  157. Formost,
    Dave keeps hurling this “insult”, the “apostate”, “disaffected” thingy. If it weren’t for the fact that the truth, the First Postulate, is we ARE actually Scientologists working to apply our spiritual philosophy to better life, and we KEEP putting that fact there, his Lie, his Alter-is, would take effect and persist.

    Everytime he throws it out, it disappears. The Second Postulate won’t take hold.

    Despite any personal foibles and failings along the Road to Truth, those of us in the indy field have a tenacity to life and keep working to the Truth and all the minor fuck ups, the missteps, the side channels fall away and right back to the Road to Truth we individually come.

    If I ever was “affected” with Dave I suppose I could be “disaffected”. As to being an “apostate”, well, the last place I would ever wanna be is next to his “postate”, what with all that coffee and other who knows what 🙂

  158. Very nice, CVA. Good news to hear.

  159. transporter,
    I’m sitting here stunned trying to imagine the illogic that would end in clearing the Clearwater streets of any public or staff. I can assume it must relate to the St. Pete Times stories and I may be way off on that. But assuming it has a connection, what would completely isolating and cutting all comm lines to the world do but create an atmosphere of desperation within those walls. A break in affinity, reality and comm with the life around them.

    This is such an inversion, a reversal of anything rational I am having a hard time thinking THIS stupidly.

    Are they afraid somebody might hand them a paper? Maybe say something like “does anybody need a hand getting the f outta that nuthouse?” or what?

    So much for any presence, let alone ethics presence. Who would want to actually live in that state of fear?

    Dave, you DO realize this is playing out in broad public don’t you? Of course you don’t. Well, Dave IT IS – ALL OVER THE PLACE. EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK. AT EVERY HAND. THE ENTIRE SOCIETY IS CLOSING IN ON YOU.

  160. Hy and Brian, thank you for your awesome steps of going public with your true experiences in the so-called “Church”.

  161. While examining this reg business it occurred to me that the RCS is at “eating” on the know to mystery scale. The organism of the church is consuming its staff and public’s resources for self use. Constant and ravenous consumption. It’s like termites or ants or maggots swarming over a food source.

    And the “mind” directing that organism…

    It’s very interesting that you have this organism that was once directed by a rational mind, but then had this tremendous engram that caused the mind to retreat, which allowed an entity or circuit to gain control of the organism.

    Talk about a “held down seven” directing the organism.

    And the intent of this circuit is to consume and control as much MEST as it can with complete disregard of all other beings and dynamics.

  162. Let me clarify…there were no staff on the street they were pointing to as I had just come through that intersection…they were talking about Flag public.

  163. Transporter: I don’t get it. Why the frenzy to keep (parishioners? staff? both?) off the street. Is this attempt to try to keep anyone from seeing a St. Pete Times?

  164. In the auditing arena, Flag is now promoting their bugged auditing rooms as a pluspoint in the brochures they are sending out. Also, in their latest brochures, Flag is being defined as “RON’S ORG, The Mecca of Technical Perfection”. The headlines no longer say “FLAG” – they say “RON’S ORG”. Here’s some sample large-print text:

    Whatever you want to get handled
    has the tech to handle it.

    Here’s what the latest brochure I received says about the bugged rooms:

    “Flag C/Ses use our state-of-the art look-in system to monitor a preclear’s progress, making the Case Supervision that much more precise.

    With this system they are able to instantly replay reads from the session right in front of them, while having the pc folder right there for reference.”

    The brochure continues:

    “Our electronic tracking boards help our Technical Services staff see when you go in and out of session to insure that the administrative actions
    to keep you going get started immediately.”

    All smarmy bullshit! I read that last bit to mean that the Vultures are alerted when you are going out of session so they can immediately descend upon you to reg you for the various donations programs.

    Anyway, it’s a short slide down the slippery slope, for them to go from bugging the auditing rooms, to bugging phone calls and any and all interactions they have with you.

    It’s really just an extension of the time-honored principle of the automobile or other big-ticket salesman’s ploy of “have to run this by my manager and get his approval.” Electronic technology applied to get better control
    and place the public more fully at effect.

  165. I can confirm that all of this is true. Another interesting fact is that the ship did not carry Bill on it’s insurance nor even list him on it’s roster of crew members after the first medical blunder perpetrated on him in which he contracted HIV from the infusion of tainted blood and/or coagulant factor given to him while under the ship’s doctors care.

  166. Not sure on that.

  167. I can see it clearly!

  168. To Jim Logan: You’re spot-on…this is playing out in public. I’ve lived in Clwr for a long time and have seen this behavior every time an article appears in the St. Pete Times.
    To John doe: You are correct in assuming the CO$ doesn’t want people to see the paper. I’ve witnessed in the past SO members driving around at 6 A.M. on a Sunday morning, when a neg article appeared, they would pop quarters into a newspaper box and take ALL the papers drive off. Also seen the go to the Hess station just south of the FH and buy ALL the copies of the St. Pete Times.
    To Lynne: Excellent duplication!

  169. Jim Logan
    + 1
    Every single person who comes out and whistle blows reveals more.
    These revelations resound on the web never to be deleted.
    How sad that they CANNOT ever admit to any wrong doing.
    It is all SPs ! it is all “Enemy Lines”
    It is all the fault of the big bad St. Pete Times !

    Yes, Jim, The WHY IS GOD.

  170. Transporter,

    Be interesting to follow them and record this theft. A local woman got convicted of theft for stealing Sunday papers like that so she could get the coupons.

  171. Catherine, that brings me tears of joy!
    I’m sorry about your mother but this must give her great relief – and you – and me – and all of us. Lots of Hugs to you too.

  172. Bert Schippers


  173. Onceuponatime: That’s not a bad idea to follow them. Sadly POB has removed all news boxes around church properties. I’m sure POB’s evil purp’s run deeper than extra coupons. He’s got a gravy-train to protect.

  174. Pingback: The Scientology Money Machine/Moving On Up a Little Higher « My LRH

  175. It was found to be a transcription error. LRH – it turns out – always intended it to say ” ‘except for’ fundraising barbecues…those are good”. The SP transcriptionist changed “except for” to a bunch of commas, making it impossible for anyone to truly duplicate the policy.

  176. Thanks Lynne for the heads up. I will check it out.

  177. Li'll bit of stuff

    What next; Scare Raid Sirens?Topple topple little Star! How
    we wonder where you ARE? And are you in a screaming fit or frenzy yet, charging around like a rabid pet, snapping and foaming at anything that moves, just ’cause instead of finding more slaves, you are instead, finding hooves.

    The above are just the intermediate symptoms of a terminal condition, known as MOTIVATOR. All brought about by the continuous activity known as OVERTS.

    Gonna be messy,POB, VERY messy !!!!!! Enjoy the nightmare Davey boy,after all, YOU CREATED IT!

    Earplugs in — Li’ll bit.

  178. Also, at “Must be contributed to” which is pretty low. Demand for admiration

  179. Hy and Brian – an excellent interview . Very believable because what you said was sincere and honest. The response from the Church was lame . How sad that the Church has resorted to responding with nothing but denials and lies.

  180. Transporter,

    The paper can track which boxes are being hit because the funds will be short. That’s how they caught this woman in town. Humans are creatures of habit. The church staff will continue to hit the same boxes, probably at approximately the same time of day.

  181. That’s right Scott, but it was done covertly. When I had the ulcer in 89, the ship was about to go into it’s 1st drydock since being purchased by the Church. You and the Chief were the only ones to come to the hospital to see me. When I tried to come back to the ship I was repeatedly stalled even though I had a doctor’s OK to come back to work. (It turned out that the Captain was having an out-2D with the ship’s doctor and she had told him not to allow me back onto the ship as she did not want the responsibility.
    I was finally sent to CW to work on the Diana. Where I wrote reports uplines and was finally ordered back to the ship by Bitty Miscaviage. When I got to the ship I was called before the Fitness Board. I was advised to CSW to remain on the ship as a public, but still woking for the org. I said OK, left and forgot about it. I wasn’t going to CSW Ship Program OPS CMOI for permission to do my post. The same is true here. We as a group or individually, do not need permission to KEEP SCIENTOLOGY WORKING. Just DO IT. Let them try to stop us. Now no-one told me that I had been taken off of the insurance or that I was no longer on the crew list. They just acted strangely, like when I wanted to sit for my Engineering License. Larry Beall got his Chief’s licence.
    Finally, about 6 months before I left there ( in a box) I was in the Captain’s office and I said to him, It’s the insurance, right? and he said Yes, it was just the insurance.
    They were saving money. That’s one of the reasons they sent me to the chiropractor to get treated for AIDS. He was a ship’s public and they didn’t have to pay him, they just gave him accomos and I lived rent free at his house for 2 months. I had to leave there to go to LA and talk to IJC to try to get my wife off the ship. However, even IJC could not do much about it.

  182. That’s right Pat; when I was writing the above I knew there was something else, I just could not think of exactly what to write, but you nailed it.

  183. Ingrid, Well yes and no. It is not that remarkable that he hospital saved my life, medical treatment for AIDS has greatly improved, mainly since 1996. Nowadays almost anyone getting the proper treatment will be fine, and the ship was aware of that. Instead, they sent me to a chiropractor who tried to pull off an OT miracle, which was unnecessary. I went from nearly committing suicide a month earliier because I could not get a leave in 7 years to go to my parent’s 50th wedding anniversary after spending 6 months trying to being tossed out like a piece of garbage, actually lethal garbage that had to be gotten rid of at all cost. All they had to do was to do what LRH said to do in the 60’s, but we know that that is a rarity these days.

  184. Lynne

    Re: “The greatest good for the greatest number”.

    One of the problems with the way that line is used is that it has been “morphed” (misunderstood) to be referring to PEOPLE. It DOES NOT refer to people. It refers to the Dynamics. As a person becomes more self determined and then gradually more pan-determined, he will take more and more responsibility for the Dynamics as HIS Dynamics. They are, in truth, already his, whether he realizes it or not, but as he gains confidence he gradually takes the reins back.

    Add to that the truth that “ETHICS IS A PERSONAL THING…that which is enforced by oneself, his belief in his own honor,and good reason, an optimum solution along the eight Dynamics”. His Dynamics, HIS solution, HIS reason, HIS honor.

    No one else EVER has the right to tell anyone what is “right for them or their Dynamics”. It is a gross evaluation. When it is done to you I think it should bear a similar level of disgust as you would have if the person had just crapped on your dining room table while you were eating.

    They are worthy of your contempt.

    Eric S

  185. Dear Catherine, I am overcome by emotion at your reconciliation with your son. For both your sakes, and for your mother’s, this is wonderful, wonderful news. Happy birthday to Catherine’s son, all the way from Australia.

  186. It never used to be like that. But it is now. And even though it wasn’t and now is, my Flag services, bugged or not, were the worst ever gotten anywhere. It is almost as if my case was set up to fail so the C/S’s could stand around and comment about it. Dispicable. 🙂

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