Kirstie Alley Defends David Miscavige

I have appended below excerpts of a verified transcript of an interview by the BBC’s John Sweeney with corporate Scientology celebrity Kirstie Alley. The interview was ordered and orchastrated by David Miscavige.  It was conducted on 21 March 2007 at church of Scientology Celebrity Center International in Hollywood Caliornia. I think this interview demonstrates a couple things that Scientologists ought to know about David Miscavige and his management of Scientology Inc.

First, the interview shows how celebrities are used to cover up the serial crimes of David Miscavige himself.  As we all know by now, the premise of the initial questions by Sweeny about the penalties for daring to harbor a thought contrary to Miscavige’s views is based on well-established fact.

Kirstie does a yoeman’s job of pretending those facts do not exist and diverting the conversation by positioning Sweeney’s question as akin to asking about alien sightings.

Which leads us to the second point of interest.  Kirstie by raising the specter of “aliens” sends Sweeny right down the Scientology space opera rabbit hole.  So much for Miscavige’s religious persecution complex.

Kirstie even resorts to claiming that as of the year 2007 she does not access the Internet in order to feign no knowledge of the RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force, Miscavige gulag).  Even if true, what does that say about a prominent member of the church of Scientology?  Medieval mentality?  Controlled to the point of being shielded from the outside world?  Just plain dishonest?

Kirstie did an admirable job of defending her religion against a lot of loaded questions.

However misled she may pretend to be though, the facts remain:

a)      Miscavige is a liar and a coward having people like Kirstie thrown out as canon fodder to cover his crimes.

b)      Kirstie is in fact last on record singing Miscavige’s praises, denying his documented crimes, and thus helping to perpetuate them.

KA = Kirstie Alley

JS = John Sweeney BBC


JS: People who have been in Scientology say that there are effectively dungeons of the mind.  Places where people who have annoyed the management, David Miscavige, end up in the desert.

KA: People say there are Martians.   Look, I am the tabloid queen.

JS: That’s wholly untrue?

KA: That is–That there are no Martians?

JS: That Scientology has got a punishment, it’s got punishment camps where people go—

KA: Listen, but John, I can’t take you seriously.  I can’t take you seriously.

JS:  –And live miserable lives.  That’s just not true.  You’ve never heard that?

KA: To my knowledge it’s not true, but I can’t take you seriously.  It’s like me asking you, when was the last time you saw a Martian?  Because I know some people in Oklahoma who totally see Martians in their backyard.  And there are those people.

JS: Okay, well let’s talk about that.

KA: But not all Okies.   I’m from Kansas.  Oklahoma’s good.  They don’t all believe in Martians.

JS: Let’s talk about aliens.

KA: Let’s talk about aliens.

(not surprisingly followed by questions about OT III)


JS: Why–Hold on a second.  As the public face of Scientology—

KA: Am I the public face of Scientology?

JS: You are not the leader of Scientology.  As the leader of Scientology, why hasn’t Miscavige given an interview and answered these questions? What’s he afraid of?

KA If I were Mr. Miscavige, I would never sit down and do an interview with you. I love the BBC.  I love the BBC with all my heart.  Probably the best programs in the world.  I am a comedian.  I am an actress.  The best comedies in the world are on the BBC.

JS: Fine.

KA: I love your network.  But if I were Mr. Miscavige I would not sit with you because you clearly—

JS: I’d ask him a question about does he go around thumping people.

KA: And I think that that’s probably why he wouldn’t do an interview with you.  Just like I wouldn’t ask you if you’re still molesting children.

JS: … any other journalist since 1991.

KA: Pardon?

JS: He hasn’t given an interview to anyone, to a TV journalist, since 1991.

KA: Why would he?  My question is, why would he?

JS: He’s the leader of an organization—

KA: So.

JA: –that claims it’s a church.  Other people say, who have been inside it, that it’s a sinister, mind-warping, brainwashing cult.


JS: Terrific.  So why can’t Miscavige.  Why am I talking to an actress who is a loyal Scientologist?  Why can’t we talk to the leader of the Church?  Why can’t we talk to Tom Cruise?  He’s the biggest—

TD : I already told you why.

JS: Look, I can only interview one person at a time.

KA: He has nothing to do—Look, I’d like to answer this.  I’d like to answer this.

JS: Okay. Yes.  Why is that man scared of something like the BBC?

KA: Well see, you’re putting that in there, which isn’t true. Every week I get about 250 requests for interviews.  Now, I don’t particularly like doing interviews. 

JS: Well you’re doing this one.

KA: So I turn down about 249 of those interviews.  Okay.  So I can’t imagine how many interview requests he gets.  But for whatever reason, he’s decided to turn them down.  I did this one because look, it is not my job to run around the world and defend Scientology.  But I happen to know the kind of piece you’re doing.   And I happen to respect the BBC.  And I happen to love Britain.  You know, my shows have been huge in Britain.  I’m getting ready to do a show that was beloved in Britain called the Vicar of Dibley, the American version.   I admire your actors and your artists, and I admire so much and I wonder why, why would you think someone would participate in something that is—talk about immoral and talk about creepy. This is creepy.

JS: Okay.  What is RPF?

KA: I don’t know.

JS: Don’t you?

KA: No I don’t.

JS: Have you never heard of it?

KA: No I haven’t heard of it.

JS: Do you use the Internet?

KA: No I don’t.

JS: Why not?

KA: Because I’m a bit stupid on the Internet. I’m a little bit in the 1940s. I like the phone. I can’t do the Internet.  I don’t know.

178 responses to “Kirstie Alley Defends David Miscavige

  1. davemessenger

    “orchastrated”. I love it.

  2. I’m sure nobody’s buying it. Just like Kirstie’s Organic Liaison store in trendy Los Feliz, which has been open for over a year, beautifully furnished and notoriously empty (sound familiar?) Nobody’s buying that, either.

  3. moneca ryane

    The whole interview Kristie is inane, non-committal and super diverting in ‘really answering the question’. Her answers were vacuous and empty like her store and career.

  4. Never heard of the RPF, huh, Kirstie? In 2007? Who are you kidding?

    Oh, and you’re still a little bit in the 40’s. No problem. Pick up the cans.


  5. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Non-sequiteur rambling.
    As for the claims of plausible deniability: Per my recall Kirsty was at the Int base for some weeks around 1994 – 1995 twinned up with John Travolta on KTL and LOC. I doubt either of them could have been completely ignorant of the ‘working conditions of Sea Org Members there at the time.

  6. Seeking4know

    Sickening to hear a grown woman talk (or rather lie) like a child.

  7. The Freewinds use to and possibly still do PR conventions to make PRO’s (Public Relations Officers). The back and forth shown here between KA and JS was the type of drilling that occurred during the convention.

  8. She was probably awarded a few intensives of Reverse Scientology for that one. Karma!

  9. Hey Kirstie, (JT et al). Here’s a definition for you. RPF = Rehabilitation Project Force. Nominally a “voluntary” programme for Sea Org members who screw up and want to carry on in the Sea Org. In actuality there is nothing voluntary about it; the “choice” you have (based on personal experience) is do it or be damned – literally. If you choose NOT to do it you will be kicked out of the Sea Org and in all probability declared SP (that’s Suppressive Person, Kirstie). You will likely be dumped out onto the street, maybe in a foreign country with little, or more likely, no money. You may have invested decades of selfless service to the church. Counts for naught. So you “voluntarily” choose to do it.

    Is it so bad, this programme? Ask those more fortunate than me (I got off after only a year) who have ended up doing 10 years or more doing the dirtiest, filthiest jobs for up to 24 hours a day sometimes; eating beans and rice month after month; living like dogs in cockroach infested cramped berthing with dozens of other “downstat” Sea Org members. When on the RPF you have no status; you are the lowest of the low. You must salute ANY other Sea Org member even though she/he may be a teenager and a new recruit. To make sure everyone knows you are scum not to be trusted, you wear dark blue or black overalls and run everywhere. If you are caught walking you do a punishment (maybe take a lap round a huge garage in the desert heat for example). If you miss some arbitary target for getting some work job done, punishment. You get the idea. There’s lots of shouting on the RPF Kirstie. Lots.

    You are SUPPOSED to have 5 hours a day enhancement. But try being studentable when exhausted, demoralized and dehydrated. It’s quite a trick, let me tell you Kirstie. RPFers could definitely benefit from your “Rescue Me” kit Kirstie, except it would take them about 6 months to pay for it, if they did away with luxuries such as soap and toothpaste to pay for it.

    If you have questions about the RPF Kirsie I’d be happy to tell you. martymart47 at gmail dot com I don’t suppose you’ve seen too many RPFers around the CC Kirstie. That’s because they are carefully hidden away from the upstat public like you.

    By the way, for some one who doesn’t get the Internet that’s a fine looking web site you got there.

  10. You know Marty, I can’t help but comment on really how stinking bad Kirstie’s interview was. I don’t think she did anything right at all considering the most fundamental principle we have in Scientology is ARC, that understanding is made up of three parts: affinity, reality and communication. Her interview is shot through with 100% unreality at every turn. She’s a walking talking poster child of unreality. That turns my stomach, I’m sure as it does yours.

    These idiots are so indoctrinated to telling “acceptable truths” whatever the fuck that means — I say in practice, it’s nearly total bullshit and have utterly lost sight of the genuine character of the subject, which make them all the worst possible examples as to what the subject is all about.

  11. What else do you expect from Kirstie Alley? She’s blonde. lol

  12. Briana Volta

    The RPF was invented by L. Ron Hubbard in 1974. And Kirstie Alley still claims not to know about it. That’s one heck of a comm lag.

  13. Well that may have been true in 2007 but considering she’s now a hardcore Tweetaholic it would be interesting to know how she’d answer that question in present time.

  14. There are many lost souls in the world and people desperately want to believe in salvation — even to the point of blocking scientific and humanistic truths subjected to rigorous examination by many, many people over long periods of time — if such truths are critical of someone’s particular religion. Any legitimate religion before or since the Middle Ages hasn’t denied or perverted science, and it’s encouraged parishoners to open their hearts and minds, not close them. A legitimate religion isn’t scared or defensive. It encourages parishoners to really look and see if the weight of societal and historical evidence supports faith in it and its works. It doesn’t pretend to be the sole arbiter of the One True Answer for all and that everyone who “just doesn’t get IT” is blind and confused and needs to be “saved” by militant adherents.

    Miscavige’s Scientology espouses a cultish medieval mentality. The only thing that gets cleared is parishoners’ wallets. Its works are only as deep and wide as disingenuous PR, shallow Hollywood fronts and obfuscating Shermanspeak. Its more militant true believers try to crush “apostates” and critics. It’s no religion. Anyone claiming otherwise at this stage is in hiding from the rest of humanity and is risking embarassment at best or isolation at worst.

  15. In this interview, I have to say that overall, the celebs did a good job pretending the ‘common internet story’ on OT3 wasn’t true. My hunch is they were briefed by TD and told it was ok to deny: ‘if you are asked by Sweeny about “blah blah” – just say it isn’t true.’

    Aside – Kirsty Alley only got one Star Trek movie as Lt Saavik – How come??

  16. This interview is almost 5 years old. I doubt Kirstie has the same views now as then. I was still brainwashed back in 2007, too. Let’s keep that in mind.

  17. That store is right down the street from me and I can tell you it is EMPTY! One of DMs stats-number of empty buildings being echoed by his parishioners.

  18. Impartial English Girl

    This all seems rather sad. Maybe she doesn’t know about RPF – but if I was going to go on public record promoting an organisation, whatever it might be – I’d make sure I knew EVERYTHING about that organisation before speaking out. Otherwise, as this proves, something is likely to crawl out and bite you on the behind…

    Oh – and where IS Tommy Davis? In the RPF that “doesn’t exist”…?!

    Keep smiling,

    IEG xx

  19. Off topic — Just heard that there was some kind of conference in San Antonio a weekend ago. Some OSA’s flew in for it. Will try to find out more.

  20. I wonder if she was “coached” to avoid questions about the RPF by claiming she had no knowledge of it. As a public I learned about the RPF fairly early from other Scientologists. So, either she’s really been seriously sheltered and oblivious or she’s following a script to lie. Neither is an admirable attribute.

  21. Such a shame that the best parts of Sweeney’s interviews always end up on the cutting room floor.

  22. FCDC Class of 74

    This has been a fine example of her craft. Whatever the subject matter, it just has to be believable…Fail. She has done better and I have to give her, her due.

  23. Gern Gaschoen

    She can’t “do the Internet” because she’s swimming in MU’s.

    Word Clears, and the super-literate, ‘do’ the Internet.

  24. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    She hasn’t been sheltered. I once witnessed Kirsty walk around the Sandcastle restaurant passing out a Liability Formula to every Flag public for having drunk wine on a couple of occasions while she was on OT VII (she was clearly at the end of her 6 month Flag reprogramming check). The Liability Formula was incredibly self-depreciating (I read it and signed it) added to which Kirsty was subjecting herself to gossip and humiliation by confessing her private and personal ‘overts’ to people she barely knew. Sheltered wouldn’t be where she’s at. Butchered spiritually into meek servitude would be closer to the mark; ‘or following a script to lie’.
    On the other hand – credit where it’s due… I couldn’t imagine Tom Cruise or David Misgavige handing out what they would imagine to be a Liability Formula – even less to be read by ‘mere mortals’. Both are too arrogant and self-righteous to admit any wrongdoing. So kudos to Kirsty Alley for that, however misguided.

  25. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the same self-depreciation is responsible for her agreement to defend Miscavige publicly. Maybe it’s part of a Liability Formula she has to do for having snuck onto the internet for a peep at marty’s blog… One can but postulate 😉

  26. retiredfromthechurch

    I have met Kirstie and found her to be entirely different than the Cheers actress. Seems the more time she spends auditing with squirrel tech the more ditsy she becomes. For her to be ignorant of all this stuff is just another koolaide drinker not knowing whatever is convenient to NOT KNOW. I know she is fully familiar with the RPF at Flag. Unless she walks around with her eyes closed.
    Her answers were as infantile as some of the shit that OSA publishes. Of course if she were to answer otherwise she’d be declared.

  27. miscavigeisscaredofsam


  28. I still like Kirstie. I’ve always liked her and her kind of humor. Just my kind of person.
    Just wish she was on our side.

  29. Briana Volta

    Kirstie is applying PR Seies 18.

  30. And while I was at AOLA once, I think in the early ’90s, she was in the HGC, came in through the front doors of AOLA just like everybody else and I remember VERY distinctly seeing RPFers running around, up and down the street (later L.Ron Hubbard Way) in their black clothing. That was the 1st time I ever saw such a thing and I had NO IDEA what the hell that was about and I found it creepy and freaky, puzzling and bizarre.
    So yeah right, Kirstie, you never heard of it?!?!

  31. Carol, that’s what it seemed like, drilled. She didn’t not know what to say…she knew exactly what to say.

  32. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    I like her too. Maybe she is on our side. Maybe she’s reading this right now… I always thought she was way too smart to be suckered for too long. That interview was conducted 5 years ago – she’s had plenty of time to wake up now. Wonder when they last hauled her in for a sec check… 😀

  33. The denial of knowledge of the RPF after decades in the church is disingenuous. The RPF, in the past, was all over any renovations taking place. Unmistakable in their black shorts, shirts and colored armbands one would have to be blind not to notice them.

    They did the gardening regularly at the PAC base. You couldn’t miss them. And yes Kirstie was there. I saw her in and around the AO regularly in the early 90’s.

    Her statements, if taken at face value, make her unqualified to give an interview on this topic. She admits to knowing nothing about the most infamous inner workings of the organization, who could take her seriously?

    Her perspective seems to be that of a cashier at a burger joint. She is well known, but by her own admissions, has no idea what goes on in the local office let alone what goes on at corporate, or where the meat in your burger really comes from.

    This is a really a vacant interview.

    Sorry Kirstie, I found you fun to talk to. Time to wake up and check out those back office shenanigans of Miscavige.

  34. Random Stranger



    JS: Ok, you haven’t heard of the RPF. What about ‘Disconnection’.

    KA: No such thing. Actually…I did disconnect from Pluto when I left there.

    JS: Speaking of aliens again…

    KA: They all live in Egypt.

    JS: Can you give me a #$@%ing straight answer about anything?

    KA: PTTTTTTT ‘Can you give me a #$@%ing straight answer about anything?’

    JS: Oh, we’re resorting to mocking now are we?

    KA: ‘Oh, we’re resorting to mocking now are we?’

    JS: Jeez. Ok, what about the e-meter?

    KA: Dunno. What’s that? I’m a celebrity, I don’t have to know anything.

    JS: Fair game?

    KA: Huh?

    JS: Conditions?

    KA: Like shampoo?

    JS: Running around poles?

    KA: Like Polish Poles?

    JS: Gifts to Tom Cruise?

    KA: I gave him a lollipop one time.

    JS: L. Ron Hubbard?

    KA: Whoozat?

    JS: Mary Sue?

    KA: Like the song, Peggy Sue?

    JS: OT III?

    KA: Paid someone to read it for me.

    JS: Lisa McPherson?

    KA: Who is that?

    JS: Me? Have you heard of me?

    KA: No, who are you?

    JS: Did you have your brain removed?

    KA: Finally, something I can answer. Yes.

    JS: I thought so.

  35. I also like Kirstie but I don’t like the obedience to the mental straitjacket.

    The fact is, the walls of silence and repressed communication have cracked and will proceed to crumble.

    When those walls fall, Kirstie and others will be embarrassed that they gave interviews like this one, and someday not too far off they will be in another interview, shaking their heads in bewilderment as they try to explain what it is like to be so controlled and how we can be tricked into surrendering freedom in the name of freedom.

    Someone mentioned above Kirstie having done a past liability formula. To me, the interview hints at a poorly coached, ill conceived effort to strike an effective blow against the enemies of one’s group. In it’s feebleness and inanity, it simply bashes more cracks into the crumbling wall of CoS which has in effect pulled away from general society in a 3D version of a blow so that the leader of the fastest growing religion won’t even talk. Cause? Overts or ARCX? Name your poison.

  36. I don’t know about Ludite Kirsty of 2007 but she twitters a lot these days.

    Pure speculation but the Internet is awash with celebrity stuff, while a few celebrities shy away from the headlines with their names I believe Kirsty follows them like a hawk, if so she’s likely been up with Internet media since it started.

  37. Steve,
    Kirstie has found aspects of Scientology real to her. She has achieved understandings by application of ARC and released more of her potential (that is, ARC as a manifestation of theta) so that she may achieve more understandings.
    For imagery’s sake, let’s say she’s somewhere on the road to truth, and a half-truth is just that. Should she continue on the road, I’m sure she’ll manifest more and more truth.

  38. Actually BV, you should look up Ken Urquardt’s contribution to the RPF. Ken describes the intention much better than I can. It was “clean as a wolf’s tooth”. Unfortunately, due to an absence of flossing, the tooth gathered much bacteria and that seeping below the gumline has affected the tissue, to the bone. Due to bone loss…well, the tooth has to go, unless of course, the bone is recovered. To recover bone, that is the issue. Explained in Fundamentals of Thought in an elucidation of the mechics of Truth and Lie as the second terminal, setting up a dichotomy and thus persistence. Spot the truth (the as-isness of it) and the lie dissolves, with no primary to compare to .

  39. Briana Volta

    C’mon guys. Claiming to “not know about it,” is an old tradition in Scientology, started by that fellow with the red hair, or doesn’t anyone know about that?

    Still, this interview has reached bizarre levels. This is going to be a YouTube classic.

  40. By the by, FOT goes into this with an illustration of a “bad leg” after the fact of a “good leg”. Sorry for seeming cryptic. It’s in Fundamentals of Thought.

  41. She lied at that time; she would lie today.


  43. Ignorance is me. I joined the Sea Org without knowing about the RPF or the DPF or house arrests or drugging up public that went type 3 to fly them home on the airplane. As a Flag public I heard someone say some staff member I asked about had gone to the RPF but I did not know what it was. I thought it was a special Org where people got lots of study time and were handled with enhancement and kid gloves! I had no idea people’s P.C. folders were culled. I spent six years in the Sea Org and had no idea where Int was or what went on there. In fact, I had very little idea about the Sea Org when I left and only found out what I was really a part of on the internet. I knew some things that others did not know when I left. But I did not know the half of it. I had no idea what was going on at Int until I stumbled across the Jesse Prince tapes on the net. Why would someone on lines at a Celebrity Center know about these Sea Org traditions? Int management not only has with holds from the public, they are also in complete fraud with the rest of the Sea Org and outer staff. It gets more complicated! DM is the ONLY ONE in this entire theatre that knows anything about bank accounts, locations, assets, legal rights, attorney contacts, contracts, corporate structures, real estate portfolios, safe houses, manuscript holdings and locations, etc etc. I guess he can’t trust anyone else in the Sea Org? Even the O.S.A. staff? How telling!

  44. Jethro Bodine

    Can you please provide the link to the original interview?

  45. Globetrotter

    “Any legitimate religion (…) doesn’t pretend to be the sole arbiter of the One True Answer…”

    My observation is that actually, that’s what MOST religions are doing. Including now, sadly, the “official” version of what is left ot Scientology in the so called “church”.

    Like this (Christian) blog about, talking Scientology:(

    “I’m sure they are some very nice people with high moral standards, but having good morals means nothing if God/Jesus is not a part of your life. Remember, who is the truth and who is the way? It is certainly not Mr. Hubbard, Mr. Miscavige, Mr. Cruise or Mr. Travolta.”

    “We may not be able to convince Tom or John to reconsider and convert back to Catholicism, but we can pray for their conversion and the conversion of all other non-Catholics. With our prayers, the Holy Spirit, in his time, will unite us all.”

    If that’s not “pretending to be the sole arbiter of the One True Answer”, then I don’t know what is…

    Otherwise, you have some good points.

  46. Tory Christman

    I am amazed that she’s lie about the RPF.
    She doesn’t know about the RPF? Puuuuuuuleeeeeeeease.
    Kirsty? Shame on you.
    Also, I was supposed to be at the end of the series on Celebs.
    John picked me up, we drove fast with Scientology following us.
    He asked me: “What are they NUTS? Don’t they KNOW we are the BBC and we are filming them doing this?”
    All I could answer was “Yes, they *are*nuts”.
    We ended up zooming up into Griffith Park, into a hidden road.
    We popped out. He asked me: “What would the Celebrities say if I asked them about XENU?”
    I did the “Ha ha ha …You don’t believe *everything* you read, do you?”
    That was it. It never showed, as C of $ threatened the BBC with a suit IF they showed the Celebs talking, which is why it shows them all silent.
    Bunker and I met with John in London and had a blast catching up, sometime after. Great guy! 🙂

  47. Globetrotter

    You make a very interesting point: “I couldn’t imagine Tom Cruise or David Misgavige handing out what they would imagine to be a Liability Formula”. Has anyone, ever observed Dave, after he muscled himself into power, being in a lower condition and doing the formula for it? Ever?

    I kinda suspect what the answer is, but I am not looking for OPINIONS like “are you kidding” (yeah, I know). I am looking for a FACT or lack of it ONLY – so if you have been around Dave for a while I would be interested to hear ANYTHING that indicated, even on a hearsay level, that he has EVER done a lower condition for whatever reason. I am just curious.

  48. martyrathbun09

    This stuff was recorded and never aired.

  49. The fact is, the walls of silence and repressed communication have cracked and will proceed to crumble. When those walls fall, Kirstie and others will be embarrassed that they gave interviews like this one…

    Not only will they be embarrassed – many of them will be in literal shock. Just getting out now, before the coming collapse, is allowing we Indies to gradually come to complete understanding about the great crimes that have been committed against us and our church. I’d much rather find out gradually, than all at once in the middle of a group engram.

    I can only imagine how devastating the incident will be to those who’ve shut their eyes and stuffed their fingers in their ears. It’s going to be like the end of the world to them.

  50. Claiming to “not know about it,” is an old tradition in Scientology, started by that fellow with the red hair…

    I don’t exactly appreciate that comment (which is putting it mildly), but I’ll respect the fact that this is Marty’s house, and not start a fist fight over it.

  51. Kirstie Alley and a couple of CCI Celebs seem to be cut fromt he same cookie cutter mold, or gone through a similar “don’t know” drill all as a cover up for David Miscavige and his abuses. Mark Bunker caught this on video during the opening of KA’s Organic Liasons:

  52. She has to know about it. She has children. They are more than old enough to be sacrificed to the RCS. She knows. She knew.

  53. Globetrotter

    People can actually change.

  54. Yup, her big break was starring as a Vulcan. Not “getting” technology is illogical.


  56. morelivesthanacat

    I don’t believe the intent of this post was to pile on Kirsty.
    Back in the day, I’d have been proud to pull off the handling of an SP attacking reporter as well as she did. As Marty said, “a yeoman’s job”.

    The point is Dave.

    Remember, Kirsty only sees the charming and glamorous side. All this “beating stuff” and the rest of it has the “tell-tale” signs of “SP attack”. And she probably receives word of Dave’s “concern” for her which she reads as “compassion”. And with those nice Black Dianetic programs, of course, she’ll step up.

    So she did what she thought was a protection of her religion (since Dave, after all, represents it).

    The point is what Dave does to manipulate and control his celebrities.

    Marty also says she stands on records as the last one to defend Dave. And that was 5 years ago. That tells us something else, doesn’t it? –that they’re no longer coming to his defense–not Tom, not John, not Ann, not Jenna, not Chick, not Juliette, not Leah not Edgar, not Katie, not Lisa Marie Presley and not Kirsty.

    Dave does that to people.
    Even Kirsty.

  57. Verbal karate.

  58. Thought you would like to see how many people are on lines at Atlanta org

    100 by the looks of it

  59. I know better

    Sumthin tells me I’d enjoy a brewski with u random stranger 🙂

  60. Jethro Bodine

    OK. What are you looking at then? I’d just like to see the whole interview.

  61. Yeah… If she stopped doing services and decided to just avoid Church people altogether that wouldn’t be broad public knowledge. This interview is from 2007 so there may be hope for her yet.

  62. Jim, No offense buddy, but that is a huge oversimplification IMO. Her reality has been alloyed by false data and through the intentional mis-application of Ethics tech emanating by you know who. Your description applies fine to anyone simply moving up the Bridge, but that’s not what she’s doing. By meeting with the BBC, she’s taken on a responsibility as a freaking spokesperson for Scientology. It’s not just a 3rd-dynamic function, it’s a 4th-dynamic responsibility. It’s a criminal act and a vicious one at that to destroy people’s affinity for the entire philosophy by allowing oneself to become so messed up they can’t even describe the subject accurately. It’s suppressive, it’s not “well, she’s doing the best she can.” Fuck that. She’s not doing her best, she’s being an other determined db robot who is covering up the serial crimes of the worst SP Scientology has ever known. We get nowhere by whitewashing out ethics. We get someplace when we call something what it is because that blows charge and improves conditions. It’s not a matter of “continuing on the road” — she’s not on the road. She’s in the abyss, and she drove off the side of the road the moment she embraced David Miscavige. She, like everyone — and I mean every single person inside the Church of David Miscavige — is suppressive on the 4th dynamic because they are condoning and supporting the destruction of Scientology. It’s a 4th dynamic situation because that’s actually the senior responsibility any Scientology has as a Scientologist. The entire subject began an effort to help mankind. It’s all throughout DMSMH. It’s throughout all LRH’s writings. The whole point he worked and the whole point any Scientologist should ultimately work, is to help recover the 4th dynamic. The logic behind that is if we all don’t make it, no one will. So let’s be real. She’s not on the road to truth, she’s not even close to it. She’s gone off the cliff and straight down. Like, duh, is it any wonder why she has such health problems and swings so wildly up and down? That’s PTSness. The steps to recover in full for any Scientologist who was ever a member of the Cult of David Miscavige is steps A to E in the Ethics book. They work.

  63. I am kind of bothered by the Kirsty-bashing going on with this thread. I don’t think it was Marty’s intention to create that, but rather to illustrate, in Kirstie’s interview that was quoted, how hard it is to defend something you know, deep down, is wrong.

    The interview was a compelling illustration of how Miscavige uses others up front for him. The reporter kept asking why Miscavige won’t give an interview and Kirstie’s answers were obviously specious.

    I’ve met Kirstie and I have to agree with her own statement about herself, she is a bit ditzy, but I think she is a warm-hearted caring person who thinks she was doing the right thing by telling “acceptable truths”.

  64. Tom Gallagher

    Well here we have another “whiz bang” demonstration of the sawed-off little prick’s dramatizations spilling over into the field.

    That aside, so Kirstie, you’re not gonna be the next ‘TC’, are you?

    Factually, here’s your chance to stand tall and be on the right side of history.

    And please, for god’s sake, don’t continue the ‘dumb bimbo’ routine……….

  65. Interesting point Ronnie. We have had a gradual awakening, although some gradients are sharper than others. Taking it all in in one crunch will be difficult if not impossible. Many will deny and others will rationalize with some twisted reasoning to deal with the shattering of their stable datums that the church is infallible and righteous and that DM is a monster. This will be a hard time for many. It is important for us to be ready and willing to provide anew, the stable datums of the tech and a bridge.

    There will be those who will still not accept it. I see a division for a long time to come.

  66. What a great write up. +10

  67. *like*

  68. Very true, Oracle, and you’re not alone, either.

    Quite possibly 97 1/2 % of Scientologists have or will come to the same realization – of betrayal. It’s something hard to confront, for several reasons. Being taken for a mug is equally hard. The good news is that most Scientologists will take it in their stride once they know: as-is is our friend! Ethics is our friend, too.

    I gave DM the benefit of the doubt, and trusted the orgs and their staffs and the Scientologists I respected. More the fool I for shedding responsibility for my group, and worse, for Not Knowing.

    An obedient servant isn’t taking much responsibility, that’s why he’s a servant. In fact, blind faith may be the very problem of humanity. It’s so easy to accept the word of a learned professor or academic or scientist or religious leader, or ethics officer or C/S or …

    Imagine Ron, flying into the face or just about every button imaginable!!!
    What a man: he left us the tech by which we can save ourselves, and it works too, when applied!

    Richard Kaminski

  69. Ditto that, morelives. Well put.

  70. The same old LDW

    I got to know Kirsty a bit when we were sharing an auditor in the NOTs HGC at AOLA. Of all the celebs I’ve met personally, she was easily the most relaxed, most friendly and the easiest to have a real comm cycle with. In comparison, at that time Jan Eastgate was also a frequent visitor to the NOTs HGC and she was very out of valence and quite full of herself.

    I think Kirsty is/was simply willingly oblivious. Not knowing any celebs intimately, this is just my opinion, but it seems to me that these folks can be a bit more insular than most. Due to the vast number of communications coming at them, rejecting irrelevant comm must become somewhat of a habit in their daily routine. Abuse of SO members is unreal beacuse they are all so “nice” to them. The idea of miscavige beating the crap out of people or throwing them in the hole is unreal because he’s so “nice” to them.
    The truth about miscavige might just hit them like a negative review on their last movie…entheta, throw it out.

    Also, just because they can act and have a lotta money doesn’t necessarily make their IQ go up.

  71. And Anons do the internet, no doubt.

    I bet there are more of them that super-literates.

    Because Hubbard’s way to super-literateness was abolished.

  72. “verbal karate”, as LRH said.

  73. I find that kind of handling of reporters simply makes the person look stupid as their intention to deflect entirely obvious. The reporter isn’t going to back off because of those tactics. Of course, it did’t get broadcasted, so in that sense it was successful, but winning an inning isn’t winning the game. I use to watch Scientologist PR people on tv all the time while active in the church. Most of the time I cringed.

    The Anderson Cooper showing of John Sweeny at CC with Kristy, Anne Archer etal was horrible. They only made themselves look antagonistic and rude. The whole OT3 thing could have been answered very easily by saying that all religions have a creation myth (as in mythology). One could say it was symbolic. Anything but ‘no it doesn’t exist’. The OT3 data is no stranger than a snake talking to a woman who was made from a man’s rib, who himself had been made from mud by a another being who is referred to as the father! Religion is wild stuff. Truth is wild stuff.

    Instead, they are told to deny everything. See no evil, hear no evil. There is no evil anywhere in the church…just everywhere outside the church, as far as they are concerned. Still, they were not convincing and everything they said looked canned. They went way too much into attack mode on Sweeny.
    They had an opportunity to handle him with dignity and respect because they were on thier own turf. They looked like idiots, and TD sat there like the monitor over the women. If I no nothing of the church, that would have turned me off big time.

    Re: Kristi specificially, she will never turn against DM. She idolizes him!! Plus, Scientology celebs depend on Scientologist as a following, and they get their butts kissed by DM and staff.

    I went to her Witchita mission opening and private dinner where she had all her celeb buddies there, and she was dramatizing being afraid to make a mistake in front of DM. She wanted to make sure she didn’t “cry in front of Dave” because OMG he is DM!! She has been on Pac Base numerous times, in AOLA, and CC. I’ve talked with her and seen her over at Flag. She is protected from the ugly part, per policy, she gets special treatment. She is the only celeb who bought a mission, none of the others followed. So, yea, she is doing what she thinks is right. But I don’t believe that she doesn’t know about the RPF. It is even in the Admin Dictionary! But, the Admin Dictionary doesn’t describe the special RPF created by DM. I knew people who LIKED the RPF because they got in, and out, and got hatted while there but it wasn’t at Int. She, like most Scientologist, accepts that people who say bad things about the church are SP’s, so there is no reason to look further.

  74. Hi, all. Well a couple of things:

    – He didn’t ask her about “the RPF”, but instead asked about “dungeons … In the desert” and “punishment camps”. How many here, not posted at Int, knew about The Hole or the details and conditions in some RPFs?

    – It has been well-established here in several posts that DM made utterly sure that TC didn’t see anything but sweetness and light. Seems Travolta would have gotten the same treatment, and thus Kirstie if there at the same.

    – I know celebs through business who did not use the Internet as of 2007. They frequently would have assistants do that for them.

    Like someone said below, the interview was 5 years ago. She could have changed some of her spots by now. So let’s say she hears we’re talking about her and comes here to look. The first thing we want her to see is accusations she was lying?

    Anyone here who still in the church in 2007, if asked the about “dungeons” would have said “oh,yeah, you mean the RPF!”?

  75. Exactly! Thank you for your honest and empathic reply.

  76. Well said. I would have been proud of you too.

    FOR YOU ?

  78. Random Stranger



    “JS: Okay. What is RPF?

    KA: I don’t know.

    JS: Don’t you?

    KA: No I don’t.

    JS: Have you never heard of it?

    KA: No I haven’t heard of it.”

  79. The same old LDW

    No argument. Well stated. Anyone ever accuse you of being “reasonable,” with outpoints Steve?
    Somehow I doubt it.

  80. Random Stranger

    Oh? Blatant lying and misdirection and acting as a dupe for an asshole who’s too chicken-shit to face a BBC journalist…she’s bash-bait. Ditzy or not.

  81. Kirstie Alley Defends David Miscavige

    David has Kristie’s pc folders and knows every transgressions she has made. And he, David, knows how to keep one silent. Doesn’t matter the time frame. If you are a celebrity, you fuked. No other religion has used this data to keep one silent. But, maybe.

  82. disclose your private transgressions to a group or an individual.

  83. so you sinned, stole some money from a person, long ago in the time track. Will you be forgiven or not per the individual you told. What if you told it to an individual who belonged to some group? What if your sin was just a few years ago? What then? Ethics? What if you told to a group member?

    Consider the indie field applying the tech as it is supposed to be applied?

  84. You should write scripts for the CC theatre night skits!

    Build on this one, and get some actors doing the above one on YouTube!

  85. I actually have a problem with how John Sweeney conducted the interview. Keep in mind that anyone who’s been in Scientology for a while has experienced the 1.1 attacks by reporters, psychiatrists and other similar personalities towards Scientology before it was corrupted by DM. Because he didn’t have anything to back up his accusation that DM beat up people it looked to her like just another cheap 1.1 shot. She went into defense mode and I thought handled herself pretty well. Unless he had a video showing DM beating people or could present credible witnesses, his accusation has no credibility to her.

    To me, he would have been much more effective if he had asked her about the huge fund raising go on and confronted her with the LRH PL saying to not do fund raising. He could have asked her to explain to new 3 swing FN. He could have shown her the list of about 37 of the 50 staff member from the original St Hill Org or the 38 of the 52 class 12 auditors who have been declared by DM and shown her the LRH reference about who the real SP is when everyone is being declared. By the way, reading on a recent post the names and posts of the St Hill staff members who were declared was really powerful.

    Sorry I haven’t show LRH references, but things moves fast here and if I had to find the references you’d be onto something else.

  86. plainoldthetan

    Ah, yes. The Pac Base ninjas.

  87. Ziba Feulner

    As far as I remember, Scientology Celebs are receiving a completely different treatment than the rest of the cult. And for all we know they may receive actual Scientology with good wins. For that reason these celebs are so far from the truth what actually happens behind the scenes that Kirstie’s responses and reactions almost make sense: She is not telling lies – she does NOT know any better and thinks she is actually defending her religion…Plus, IMO you won’t get anywhere with Scientologists by bashing “Scientology” as JS was doing in his interview; one has to make them consider the differintiation between LRH Tech and the current CofS’s leader version on the “tech”, otherwise one only triggers the “wanting to be right, no matter what – mechanism”. Consequently, the application of HCOB “You Can be Right” may result in more coorparation: Let them be right about their choice of religion, however let them think about the possibility of their current leader “potenially” not having good intentions and actually being a “probable” problem in regards to the Expansion of their religion…

  88. plainoldthetan

    Wikipedia says it was a salary dispute.

  89. plainoldthetan

    No, Tommy Davis is in the Hole that doesn’t exist.

  90. Tell us how you really feel Steve. :>)

    I really get both of these posts. One is looking at the inherent rightness in a being, which I understand, especially considering what Jim is doing and the other is; now we have to handle this person look hard at what they ARE doing and the effects. Much like the C/S auditor viewpoint vs the EO. If I may be so bold as to kibitz on these two posts.

  91. Thoughtful, right on!! She sees and she knows.At this point how anyone still there does not know IMO is just a big fat lie.

  92. Thanks, I missed that part — didn’t notice that he revisited, and I stand corrected on that point.

    But in 15 years or more in the church, I only heard “RPF” once, while brieflynon-contracted staff at ASHO Fdn, without any details whatsoever. It is entirely believable that a specially-treated celeb would never hear of it at all.

  93. Ziba,
    Yes, the celebs receive special treatment, and they are prevented from being aware of the truth behind the scenes.
    As far as receiving actual Scientology?…no…David Miscavige is ALL over their pc folders, so you can be assured, they are not receiving actual Scientology as he does not even know what that is.
    Kirstie is no different than the rest of us…a being knows when something is not right. She knows, but like so many, has not confronted taking responsibility for her knowingness.

  94. Watch it on the blondes

  95. “Don’t be afraid to see what you see.” ~ Ronald Reagan

    That’s for you, Kirstie.

  96. RS-Its scary how accurate you are!

  97. GetTheConcept

    I can believe she’s never heard of the RPF. It’s not that hard to see the possibility. If I had never been on staff, but still were in the church, I probably never would have heard of it either.

  98. GetTheConcept

    Well, if that’s the case, then I do find it hard to believe she’s never heard of the RPF.

  99. Good Lord, Jim–cryptic indeed. =] But, can you please attempt at an explanation of what an RPF as “clean as a wolf’s tooth” would look like? How is such a concept justifiable under any light?

  100. Kirstie seems to be acting here as a member of a group, not as an individual, i.e. defending some idee fixe, some solution. See PR-Series 30, HCOPL 23 Nov 1969, Individuals vs. Groups, MS Vol 3. p. 150.

  101. Sometime ago, I might have reacted like her facing such an attack on DM. Looking too gross from a reporter. And this is 2007, the current “revolution” was not even started. Of course she knows what is RPF but she doesn’t want to debate with a journalist. Do you remember how we were? Any attack against Scientology even if it looked warranted was to be dealt with a complete denial.
    Maybe, now, she would have a very different answer. When any of the celebs will wakeup that will be very hard on DM. I imagine she is a very good girl.

  102. Yes, it is likely that Tommy Davis has been forced to make the mathematical realization that a double negative can become a postítive. [A hole is a place where no matter exists, and a hole that doesn’t exist is therefore a double negative, and there certainly is a lot of mass there in that non-existent hole…]

  103. Jim and Steve,
    This is a subject of much intention – in both the original interview, and the responsibility by all concerned. The original post was about how celeb’s are used and orchestrated by DM. To even be in that position is to be wearing the blinders, with but a very narrow opening, to communicate to the outside world. I believe we have all been in that position at one time or another. Step A (of A-E) requires a sub-step of recognizing that one’s actions are in the wrong direction. Herein lies the sit of this posting. She, Kirstie, thinks she is on the side of truth and inherent rightness on the dynamics. She must be brought into PT to actually view and understand that she has been mislead. At that time she will, or ab least will be able, to see that step A must be done.

    This truly does affect all of us. It is part of the 4th dynamic – the survival of mankind as a whole – and it is vital and must be won. Kirstie is basically good and has the ability to make it out the other side intact. It may be a bit of a rough ride but can be done. She was fed false data and drilled first, probably validated after, and any points of her agreement with the alter-is must be fully confronted for this to as-is and for her to move on up the line.

    The truth one must confront to get past this suppression may have a bitter taste, that causes a convulsion of thought and what one had believe to be their stable datums, but it is palpable. I can personally see that many years ago I would have been in the position to make stupid statements such as she did. But, with the application of ethics tech and auditing tech we have the exact means to apply and handle. I so dearly look forward to the day when the internal suppression on the subject of Scientology does not detract from the real goals and purposes of a future of survival for all.

    I thank all on this blog – this utter open communication line where all may engage – for helping myself, and others like minded to wake up to the truth and move on forward in time. Thanks guys – this won we win, not just because we must, but because we are on the side of truth and the communication of truth is the ultimate answer to suppression. Truth and the ability to communication and understand it has the ability to set us all free from any self imposed barriers – as free beings we have the ultimate ability to be, do and have anything.

  104. Good points Ronnie and Ann. It will be like a group engram and the division probably will last a long time — may even be permanent (such as the concurrent existence of Catholics and Protestants) with eventually some truce being called (but I pray not bloody like the French wars and the Thirty Years War fought between those two forks of Christianity).

    My hunch is there will be a long-standing schism that will be exacerbated by black-white thinking (for reference, In that black-white thinking there is only room for the following irreconcilable differences:

    1. From CoS viewpoint, everyone in the Indies is suppressive and Miscavige is good.
    2. From Indies point of view, Scientologists in general are good (per LRH or Anne Frank, all people are good at the core), but Miscavige is suppressive.

    As Ann rightly points out, there is a gradient consideration to this. For someone to move from view 1 to view 2 is a seismic shift with a near vertical gradient. To use the tech to facilitate the shift, it might even make sense not to demonize Miscavige too much — it gives him a sort of mythical power for one thing. Rather, just stick to the out points and make it non-personal about Miscavige (by non-personal I mean no ad hominem attacks). He’ll metaphorically hang himself most likely. As they say, no need to push the river — it flows by itself.

  105. Kudos Briana for not swallowing the absurd talking point that everything bad is always DM, and never… you know who.

  106. “She is the only celeb who bought a mission, none of the others followed.” John Travolta financed the mission near his home in Ocala, FL, but he, too, has been quiet of late.

  107. That creates quite the mental image picture!

  108. +1

    But do those celebs still contribute to David Miscavige’s war chest I wonder? Perhaps sincere in the belief they’re “helping” global dissemination.

    I think it’s a safe bet Lisa Marie Presley doesn’t but what about the rest?

  109. Cult mechanics at play. We’ve all been conditioned to think that the Psyche’s and the Press are out to get Scientology (which may or may not be true on case by case basis.) But like so many others she’ll probably look back on this one day and go “Why was I willing to lie for DM?” or “Why was I willing to compromise with my own reality?”

  110. Marty, check with John Sweeny but I believe that after threatening to sue re showing the celebs talking and after the show was released with none talking celeb shots the church of scientology produced their own version using excerpts of the talking interviews. As a result the BBC (legal dept) decided since Co$ released it so could theb BBC and some of the interviews were later aired. Could be wrong but I recall something like that.

  111. Steve,
    I understand.

    I really don’t want this to come across as patronizing, but, lately I’ve been realizing just how powerful the truths we’ve gleaned are, and how with that knowledge, the ease of control flows, and it’s much easier to be on both or many sides of life and living a, outside of time.

    A-E does work. It’s the first “split” from the valence of suppressive that gets the being on the way to recovering their own Ultimate Truth. Recognition of the being, the line to the actual being, and their willingness to work with another to move forward is the key to any Ethics Presence.

    I’m not being “reasonable” as described in the Data Series, I’m moving up higher to being more aware that it’s a fact, Preclear plus Auditor IS greater than the Bank, and whether that auditor is an ethics auditor, or a qual auditor, all the tools come to into play with that workable axiom.

    I’m also feeling quite magnanimous. Had a good few weeks here in Las Vegas. Auditing, training, qualling, talking with some dear friends and regaining some ones I’d missed along the way.

  112. Jeff Siebrand

    TR film? Use of a Doll in auditing staring the dude from that 70’s Show. The big bad SP gets put in the RPF in the end. The definition is or was in the film glossary. Did Kirsty ever do any auditor training? If she’s on VII she must have seen this film.

  113. Ann,
    Well said. I think the time factor is well within our ability to lessen. Upping our individual KRC daily behoves us.

  114. You’re a sitting duck. Wewy tempting. Wucky for yew it’s wabbit season.

  115. Bingo.

  116. Plus.

  117. Tony Dephillips

    You are a true ethics master.
    The A- E principle is perfect. One would just do it to the degree necessary and it would as-is for them.
    Thanks for caring Steve.

  118. Tony Dephillips

    Plus 1.

  119. Tony Dephillips

    Maybe nothing really exists??

  120. Tony Dephillips

    Hell yeah. Plus 1000. 🙂

  121. Yes thetabop. Who is she kidding? I’ve seen Kristie standing in front of the AOLA many years ago with the staff in black grab (RPF) pushing wheelbarrows around in the area.

  122. Jethro Bodine

    John Sweeney wasn’t “bashing Scientology” by asking Kirstie Alley about the RPF. The word “RPF” is in the admin dictionary, and it was created by L. Ron Hubbard by a written Flag Order, and Kirstie was lying sack of shit when she claimed she didn’t know what the word “RPF” meant. If a person can’t be honest, then there’s nothing they’ll get out of Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard was not a role model, but he did create a workable tech.

  123. It is very bad what Kirstie did with her interview in regard to the rescue of mankind.
    Not confronting truth is not the way to freedom but to more enslavement. But confronting truth is on the way to freedom!!

  124. Thanks Ziba. You wrote exactly what I was thinking. I put myself in Kristie’s shoes and I would have done anything to protect my religion. I did so for 35 years. I knew Kristie before she became well known. We all have wins from Scientology in those days. Real Scientology tech was the turn-around in her life when she first came to LA from Kansas. Miscavige fooled a lot more people than just Kristie when he high jacked the subject of Scientology. The key is to get people to differentiate that David Miscavige and his church is no longer Scientology. In my view that would be the best thing any reporter could do. Rather than sensationalism about Xenu, why not a story about how DM has sought to destroy the subject of Scientology. I’ve seen Marty and Mike make this differentiation in the press lots of times in recent years. More reporters need to do that. That’s the real “scandal” that is newsworthy.

  125. Not so true, ” An obedient is not taking much responsibility”. When you serve someone they become the effect of you. In a restaurant, you become the effect of the cook and the waitress. And it is the waitress and the cook taking full responsibility for the experience. The pleasure of the customer and the success of the exchange between the owner and the guest.

    Well anyway, that is a whole ‘nother discussion and why I prefer to serve.

    The math has hit me today. How many OT8’s are there that have finished their L’s and are class Xll? Out of these “millions” of current members, how many make it up the bridge? How many Scientologists does it take to get one winner over the finish line? How many Sea Org Members must circle Tom and Kirstie’s wants and needs to get an attest?
    The bleak reality of this elitist movement has finally dawned on me. There are “millions” of members but there are not “millions” of clears. I’m around the first 10,000. I don’t want to admit how many people it took to make me clear. If I had not spent six years in the Sea Org helping others in return I would be ashamed. And who did I help? The elite of the elite in Scientology. I am guessing it takes 30,000 Scientologists (who never get up the bridge themselves) to get one person on the OT levels.

    There is something wrong with this picture and this math. The whole structure. Too many losses and not enough wins. It does not add up.
    The high prices, elitism, status for sympathy to beggars, are one giant “Can’t have” run on the population of Earth. The most self sacrificing hardest working people blown off, no bridge, run into the ground and reduced to beggars and stepping stones, while a chosen few make it to the top.

    No wonder so many people have left this game. It is not fair.

  126. markthehungarian

    I think Sweeney wanted to see if she knew about the Hole, RPF, and generally bad treatment within the church. These are in the public domain, on the internet, etc, so someone who believes in communication, knowledge, etc (as Scientologists do) would be expected to have heard something about these. Instead of answering Sweeney in an adult and calm manner, she went the “deny everything, I know nothing route” which came across as disingenious and a little arrogant, in my opinion.

    If Sweeney was being aggressive, which I don’t think he was, the correct response is not more aggression. Rather, to be calm, collected, and to “rise above the situation.”

    She didn’t, and both she and Scientology came across as weird, “kooky” and as though they were hiding something.

    No religions are squeaky clean. There are skeletons in all closets. Imagine a Roman Catholic being asked about priests who have abused children. The Kirsty response would be to say “I’ve never heard of this” which is ridiculous. That shit doesn’t fly and is an unacceptable response.

    Her refusal to acknowledge OTIII materials is also strange. The Christian story of the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension as ESSENTIAL, no matter how “kooky” they seem to a non-believer. It’s one of the most beautiful parts of the Christian philosophy, even though it can sound ridiculous. And that’s OK! If it’s something you believe in, shouldn’t you be proud of that? Maybe she hasn’t done OTIII, in her defense.

    Adding to the ludicrousness is that all the time, Kirsty is being shadowed by Tommy Davis, the Church of Scientology SPOKESPERSON. Surely, if he is there to “make things go smoothly” (more likely, prevent further fuck-ups), wouldn’t it be up to him to step in and say something? She would have been protected from herself, he could have easily defused the situation and given a calm response and all three of them (Kirsty, Tommy, Church of Scientology) would have come out of this interview smelling of roses (relatively). Sadly, the Church of Scientology thinks that the head-in-the-sand no-one-will-know-if-we-deny-everything strategy works.

    It doesn’t.

    At worst it is lying. At best it is avoiding answering a question. Either way, giving a ridiculous answer doesn’t make the interviewer look bad. It only reflects on the interviewee, whether this is fair or not.

    The question Sweeney should have repeated is “why doesn’t DM give interviews?” And “why is DM NEVER in public?” “Why doesn’t DM, when travelling the world, meet with people who HAVEN’T been vetted, trained, and controlled?” This is one of the things that makes outsiders believe the Church is a cult. After all, whenever the Dalai Lama goes somewhere, anyone (if they get a ticket) can see him. If you want to have an audience with the Pope (in Rome), all it takes is a letter and a little planning. For all the Church spouts about communication, it is clear that dialogue is the one thing they fear the most. This interview was yet another example of that.

  127. A PR person she ain’t. She did an interview with Playboy Mag and discussed how Scientology helped her overcome her compulsions. Who the hell reads Playboy? People wanting some hot sex no matter whether it is a compulsion or not. It was a big ser fac. And she hadn’t been laid in fifteen years. She ate instead. 260 pounds talking about how Scientology helped her overcome her compulsions. What the hell? Anyone with half a sense of duty would have talked about what a red hot sex life they had because of Scientology doing a Playboy interview.

  128. moneca ryane

    Double ouch! Right in the old bread basket. A real one, two ………. three, four, five…….

  129. I don’t have a big problem with this interview as the world of Scientology 2007 is night and day compared to the Scientology world 2012. I doubt Kirstie or any other celeb will ever be allowed to do interviews with serious reporters ever again.

  130. Random Stranger

    Very commonplace to encounter black arm-banded dirt-shoveling executives or senior tech terminals laboring and running in squads at Flag throughout the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s as part of the RPF. Now it’s hidden, evidently, as are Mein Fuhrer Miscavige’s psycho-tantrums and physical and mental abuse and personal financial irregularities.

    For Kirstie Alley to not know about the RPF, one or more of the following criteria would have to have been met:

    1) Brain removed

    2) Thetan removed

    3) Eyes removed

    4) IQ of 2.

    5) She’s so advanced she’s transcended Know and arrived at Not-Know.

  131. ” Anyone with half a sense of duty would have talked about what a red hot sex life they had because of Scientology doing a Playboy interview.”

    She seems like she would have that kind of good sense.
    BTW: That statement is so practical as to be hilarious!

  132. I know Kirstie very, very well.
    She gave the interview in 2007, and I am sure she did not at the time have the faintest clue that David Miscavige is what each one of us found out. And I am pretty sure she does not know even now.
    As far as the internet, she is not a computer brain – but for sure, as I did not before being sort of routed there by my son Flavio ….., she never went there and google Scientology or whatever. So is obvious that she is totally INSULATED as all the other celebrities are. She receives a special treatment, but she also receives a special “brain washing” treatment meaning that she is heavily subjected to REVERSE MISCAVIGE CELEBRITY SCIENTOLOGY. He is very, very smart but being on VII she receives constant sec checking and ethics introversion rundowns – one time in 2006 she was in her room with the MAA for one month to go tru KRs and god knows what!!!!
    So to make a long story short. I think K is a great women, very capable, very smart, and she actually does not know what is going on. She is prevented from looking and so unwillingly, and thinking she is forwarding LRH intentions when actually she is forwarding DM insane version.
    But, and I stress BUT – she will wake up, sooner or later. And I am sure about it. And when she will nothing will be spared.
    I am really waiting for that moment.
    And I am sure it will come soon.
    Kirstie when that time comes we will be here for you!

  133. No doubt, but she still supports an organisation run by an abusive, tyrannical leadership that has no respect for the most basic of human rights. (It was only a few months ago she tweeted that the CoS fraud case in France was an attack on “religious freedom”. Unless Ms Cook’s email has since impinged I’m guessing she’s still gulping down the kool aid like never before).

    This wasn’t some random interview she gave during her free time; this was set up and managed by the same cruel and inhumane group of extremists that much of the planet despises, to be a “public face”, a spokesperson, to defend said leadership using crappy “Reporter TRs” and verbal karate in an attempt to appear as a lovable celebrity scamp, deflecting serious questions and wasting the interviewers time.

    Non-answers and public dishonesty creates ARC Breaks with the world.

    An organisation with clean hands should not need to deflect questions.

    In 1957, Hubbard wrote that THE primary public complaint against Scientologists was their inability or unwillingness to answer direct questions put to them. (HCOB 18 June 1957, People’s Questions).

    If she or any other DMbot doesn’t know the answers to these questions, they should bloody well FIND OUT. The longer they keep their head in the sand the longer the abuses will continue to occur. That’s what it ultimately comes down to, no matter how nice or caring some celebrity actress appears to be.

  134. Thanks Tony, The great irony is that the Cult of Miscavige insists we are all SPs who need to apply A to E. That is one funny situation when you really stand back and look at it. It was originally enturbulating to me but it took several years until I could finally spot why. The Clowns of Miscavige are simply supplanting the wrong reason for needing to apply that tech. It’s the correct technology, but if applied for the wrong reasons, A to E becomes a wrong indication and simply another way to plow people into the clay.

    The Clowns of Miscavige say the reason we were suppressive was because we refused to submit to DM. No, our only suppressive act was in temporarily condoning and thereby supporting Bozo Miscavige in his bid (conspiracy) to destroy the Scientology. Supporting David Miscavige IS an attack on Scientology, lol.

    When one “comes to his senses” he has begun the A to E process. Step A is to stop committing continuous suppressive acts — which as mentioned in the previous paragraph — means to stop condoning and supporting DM. The moment a person does that, they experience a huge resurgence (case gain) just as LRH says in Step A.

    B. The person is required to make a public announcement that their actions (in ever supporting DM) were unfounded. And they are supposed to expose DM’s conspiracy. This step brings incredible release and recovers latent gains from years of suppression. This is where you rise up and look DM in the eye and watch him explode under your gaze. No one should hesitate to do this, it is loads of fun.

    B1. Get in exchange, which for many people, will require they do what they can to force the Clowns of Miscavige to return any stolen money which is Bozo is using to live like a king and is not being used for “dissemination” at all. On the contrary, the Clowns of Miscavige comprise the worst possible dissemination in history.

    B2. This step gives you a chance to put things right with anyone who suffered during the period when you allowed Bozo to suppress you. We all make mistakes, learning is part of living. But the beauty of Scientology is that it enables you to fix mistakes you make along the way. And if you think people loved you before, wait until you actually put things right. This is the step that takes you into skies you never dreamed you could soar into, honestly. What you decide to do is completely up to you.

    C. This step is all about applying the tech. GAT aka the “Golden Agony of Treason” is itself a Scientology degrade, and was implemented in such a way to convince each person “there is something you don’t understand about the tech.” Watch DM’s video and the conclusion you get is that “I need to restudy everything.” That in itself must be spotted as false false false false false false data. False data stops people from being able to “THINK WITH” a subject. It stops auditors from auditing. So just crumple all that Golden Agony business into the nearest trash bin, and freely start applying what you know to improve conditions — ethics tech, auditing, admin, everyone around you needs help. Damn the torpodoes and help them out!

    D. When you are done, you will know. Make a note of everything you did.

    E. Let others know you are done.

    Those are the steps, applied correctly to the situation we are in where the Church itself has departed from Scientology. They are gone; there isn’t a Scientologist in the lot. What IS there is a bunch of suppressives who need to apply these steps and they will come through and recover. 🙂

  135. You are waxing philosophic, at peace with the world. No problem with that, Jim.

  136. For any who don’t know, “Sapere Aude” is a Latin phrase meaning “dare to be wise,” or more precisely “dare to know.” Nuff said. 🙂

  137. Exactly. Everyone knows about the Sea Org and the long hours … but very few are aware of the RPF. In fact, I remember reading about the RPF and the RPF’s RPF in the Admin Dictionary before joining staff and thinking to myself … this must have been what they did in the Sea Org in the 60s … surely they don’t do this anymore.

  138. THAT is so true — and indeed a great irony. Thanks for laying it out like that Steve. I’ve done the A-E steps and didn’t even know it.

  139. you should look up Ken Urquardt’s contribution to the RPF

    Indeed Jim. In fact, I would suggest that anyone who hasn’t done so, also read Ken Urquhart’s response to this and a number of other half-truths from “Piece of Blue Sky” floating around out there at this link:

    The section that discusses the RPF is in the section 8, called “Visibility: Poor”.

  140. Milton Myron Medusa

    Oh, puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaase.

  141. You hit the nail on the head (as usual), especially the last 2 paragraphs!

  142. Well said. Thanks for pointing this up.

  143. That sounds about right.

  144. My other comment notwithstanding … giving Ms. Alley her due … what is the point of Miscavige having ‘ordered’ this? Surely, he did.

    But, that does not absolve Ms. Alley from being responsible for it. She’s responsible for knuckling under. She’s responsible for lying. She’s responsible for acting like an ostrich if, in 2007, she really never ‘set foot’ in the internet. She’s responsible for … after upteen years as a “scientologist”, she has not trained enough to know what “RPF” refers to?! My goodness! Anyone who’s ever done the Student Hat, which I believe she has MUST know that acronym.

    So, what this shows is not that she’s been ‘overwhelmed’ by the big, bad Miscavige (which he is), but that she’s a devout liar, and just as suppressive as he is. Inspite of her cheerful demeanor.

    Many of the comments I read seem to want to excuse Ms. Alley’s reprehensible Black PR.

    She’s responsible for what she does. She’s not a 15 year old child seduced by a smooth and deceitful pimp. She’s an adult. She’s just as suppressive as Miscavige — and we all know how suppressive he is.

  145. I doubt any celeb would want to.

  146. I think you’re right, Sam.

  147. yes, Ziba…she may or may not have known what the RPF was in particular, as the celebs are sheltered. So I can’t say that her statement on that was truth or lie. And I also wanted to add…I’m sure she did have actual Scientology before David Miscavige took over the pc folders of celebs. That said, Kirstie is a perceptive gal and is not dumb. She has been around the Orgs a long time. And that is why I said she is no different than the rest of us in having an awareness that all is not roses and daisies. Like you said, we see and justify the outpoints. That is where she is at…or at least when that interview was done. Hopefully things have changed.

  148. RS, you are one funny guy! Hope to meet you one day. 🙂

  149. Impartial English Girl

    But, if I exist – and YOU exist, for you are reading this, right now – then it is more than likely that The Hole exists also. For how can SO many otherwise plausible people be wrong…? All I know for certain is that Miscavige’s world is not one in which I would EVER want to exist – I feel for those who now have no choice; whatever they may have said or done in the past… Tommy D, Shelly Miscavige, Heber Jensch – to name but three… perhaps their voices are heard even more loudly now that they have been “silenced”…?

    IEG xx

  150. I said it before, but you are brilliant, Steve. And exactly right & spot on. Thanks for this.

  151. Well said.
    I too have always felt that there are plenty of other low hanging fruit out there that are FAR more damning than the violence. As an example, to me the excerpts from the PDCs are:
    a) easy to ascertain the truth of, and
    b) completely unacceptable.

  152. The Oracle~Yes indeed, the can’t have is the key. I have realizations every single day about the can’t haves, realizing I CAN HAVE any flippin thing I want, in any way I want it. The impossible targets – can’t have. Being a full time auditor – can’t have due to finances or kids, etc. False targets for beingness, aka status – can’t have you just the way you are. Every single thing is set up so you can’t have what LRH promised. It’s absolute bullshit. LRH did not set it up that way and he certainly didn’t run can’t haves on people! Quite the opposite!

  153. I’d send that to That’s pathetic.

  154. Well said Jim. So true.

  155. And as I and at least another person reported, she was around PAC base in the early ’90s, where RPFers were all over the place in their “Ninja garb” – NO WAY TO BE MISSED since they might be digging in the dirt beside the sidewalk as you walked on it. I tried to talk to one of them and they wouldn’t even talk to me. So, she knew then what RPF was.

  156. I learned what RPF was at that time but had no clue about the back stories…

  157. “She’s not a 15 year old child seduced by a smooth and deceitful pimp”….

    No. She’s from Kansas.

  158. “She’s not a 15 year old child seduced by a smooth and deceitful pimp.”

    No, She was a 50 year old woman being used by a smooth and deceitful pimp. David Miscavige.

  159. “Reality is agreement. Too much agreement under duress brings about the vanishment of one’s entire consciousness.”


  160. Tony Dephillips

    Brilliant. I’m tracking with you. It’s ironic that Dm is trying to sabotage the subject and the only ones who can save it are those doing a-e against RCS.

  161. Yeah, literally anyone who is doing something about RCS is also doing a-e without realizing it.

  162. Yes, exactly Margaret! It’s an incredible validation of the old man and the technology that people do the exact formula organically, without even realizing it. VWD!

  163. Jethro Bodine

    The RPF is a punishment or penal camp; no doubts about it. The people on it have restricted human rights. They have to do hard physical labor. They are treated inhumanely in my opinion, especially the RPF’s RPF. Even children were assigned to the RPF. The RPF is part of “Scientology” because it was created by a written LRH Flag Order. It is part of “Sea Org tech”, and just like “Admin Tech”, it is part of Scientology. If something is written by “Source” (LRH), then by definition it is Scientology. Miscavige added arbitraries to the RPF and has turned it into something much longer than what was originally intended. Miscavige has also assigned people to the RPF without due justice, but the RPF was created by LRH. Whether something like an “RPF” or an “RPF’s RPF” has any business in a tax-exempt organized religion is question all by itself, but I think Sweeney’s questions were on the money even if Kirstie Alley found them hard to confront. Also, from what I’ve seen most people who are not Scientologists don’t make a distinction between Scientology the philosophy and the Scientology the church.

  164. Really, Kirstie? I mean, you’re a bright girl, funny as hell, great comedienne and business woman and you’re lying blatantly saying you never heard of the RPF? And you defend the IAS, pouring in hundreds of millions to this war chest. (There’s a war? Oh yeah. The one in Dave’s mind.). And you’re on Solo NOT’s and work with the Sea Org, yet you claim you don’t know what the RPF is? Shame, shame.

  165. Kirsite Alley is on Twitter. she has been tweeting u a storm since 2009 and is very savvy with tweets and posting pics.

    Did Kirstie Alley suddenly start using the internet after the John Sweeney interview in which she claims she does not? Or was Kirstie Alley’s answer a lie? the same way her every other answer is clearly an attempt to manipulate and introvert and divert the questions.

    JS: Do you use the Internet?

    KA: No I don’t.

    JS: Why not?

    KA: Because I’m a bit stupid on the Internet. I’m a little bit in the 1940s. I like the phone. I can’t do the Internet. I don’t know.

    Kirstie Alley on Twitter!/kirstiealley

    Yeah, right.

  166. The only reason why there was a Bridge is because someone had created it. Back in the old days this was LRH, the staff and the publics and friends.
    This holds for the present and for the future. If we want a Bridge to be there for us and whomever we include in our Dynamics, we need to create it, if we don’t it won’t.

  167. Oracle, I agree with what you say about serving. We could say LRH was serving. Without service and exchange there would be no 3rd Dynamic, we’d just be disconnected individuals, a frightening thought.

    What I didn’t make clear was that the servants of the church are blindly obedient, trusting that what they are doing is for the best. I was in the same boat myself, following orders against my better judgement, like a fool. And got nicely ripped off for it too, as Kirstie will discover, or has discovered.

    There’s a good future in helping and being helped, but not when it’s into a ditch.

    Richard Kaminski

  168. oh, thanks for the correction, but is his mission actually doing anything, I wonder?

  169. Thanks – yes, plausible explanation.

    Can’t really blame her – ‘Stuff the fans – just show me the money!’

  170. Milton Myron Medusa

    Kirstie Alley is worth no more to this world than any of the other 6 billion people on it. If, and when she “comes to her senses” there is no justification for giving her even a nano-second of special treatment. She’s used her ‘celebrity’ status to support very bad things, and she’ll have to start in treason and work herself up. Just like anyone else who ever defended a horrid SP like Miscavige.

  171. I agree with Milton, I add that, giving Kirsty the benefit of the doubt, you knowing Kirsty “very, very well” might position you to assist her in coming to realise the very large error of her ways. Tip her the wink so to speak.

    Since you know Kirsty very, very well regarding Organic Liaisons, suggest re launching it. Not associating with a health diet as seemed to occur last time because while people might go to a healthy eating restaurant the word diet implies a commitment to a regime of eating, which is not what one does with a restaurant; never say diet.

    Stick to Organic healthy (but awesome) eating _ “treat yourself without the guilt” blah and you might get some custom. Loosing the church of scientology link (don’t rely on them at the opening) will do you no end of favours too. Get real people in.

    Forget special nutrients too, organic food is naturally rich in nutrients sometimes missing in fertilised speed grown crops is all you need to say if anything.

  172. Kristi is on 7, unless she completed it. That was in 2002 when I went to flag.

  173. Beautifully expressed!

  174. Me Cavewoman, me not know internet. Miscavige good, Difficult quiestions bad.

  175. I know her well, I am her fans and had been following her since her appearance in “dancing with the star”. I difinately agreed with her opinion on this issue.

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