The San Antonio Express News summed up Miscavige’s Texas folly better than any other news service to date when it characterized it as follows:
But the suit became almost a textbook example on how litigation can sometimes backfire after Cook was called to the witness stand for a pre-trial injunction hearing in February and, with a courtroom full of reporters, outlined under oath a history of alleged oddities and abuses by the organization.
See the entire story here: San Antonio Express News
Even if Miscavige’s latest Big Lie were true (that Scientology Inc paid out nothing) and Debbie wound up paying nothing for having spoken out – then testified for good measure – for the world to hear after receiving 100 thousand dollars not to, what kind of product is this? What kind of product is this for the millions of church of Scientology parishioner dollars expended on this fiasco?
Debbie Cook and David Miscavige
Abuse of Process – David Miscavige
That’s what I mean. Debbie delivered an effective blow. Who am I to question her now?
And, what kind of product is this? It is NO PRODUCT. It is a failure, and a waste of time and money, with the church worse off than before.
San Antonio Texas News – Fantastic article and headline. “dropped”. They did a nice job. Also has Debbie’s letter available and other articles, nice!
Me thinks Debbie just bent back David’s finger until she got the answer she wanted. Mike and Marty ran David out of Texas. And in general, you all shook it up!
No matter what compelled Debbie and Wayne to stand down in this fight, Debbie’s Jan 1st email created an undeniably huge effect on Scientologists around the globe. Just tonight, a German Scientologist announced her independence from the corporate church and joined the Indie Scientologist FB group. She said that Debbie’s email is what finally got her to LOOK.
Same with me. I don’t know that I’d be here with you, if a very kind soul hadn’t sent me Debbie’s email. It was the precise moment that I finally gave myself permission to look. Yes, she did a lot of good, and I hold out hope that she will find a way to do more.
Didn’t she say already anything she wanted to say before that female judge in Texas and to the media? Is there still information that Debbie Cook has not told but should tell? Please enlighten me.
No matter what reason Debbie had for accepting the settlement (with the gag order,) she deserved the support she got. Debbie fought a good fight and helped the truth come to light for many others by sending out her courageous letter a few months ago. Hopefully, she will never forget Marty and all the others who had her back when she was down. I wish you peace and love, Debbie.
TO right on, please post your E-mail address here for me
thanks, Li’ll bit
Wow, lots of activity recently. I’ve just caught up on the many recent posts and many of the comments.
While I am definitely disappointed about the turn of events, especially the apparent signing away of freedom of speech & association, etc., I just don’t have enough data to “judge” Debbie & Wayne. They have the data they have, & they have the right to make the decisions they make. Also, if there are health issues involved, those can make one not care about other issues so much…attention is on getting healthy.
Also, it has really hit me how evil, Evil, EVIL, the fucking church of scientology is! It is an out of control monster led by a maniac. I just took a quick look at the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the “church” violates at minimum numbers 3,4,5,9,10,12,13,16,17,18,19,23,24,25,26!!! That’s at least 50%. Pathetic.
Don’t worry guys Cristian Landivar is coming back!
Recent News: http://cristianlandivar.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/movie-premiere-now-tom-c-as-david-miscavige-on-the-lord-of-the-release-forms-based-on-a-true-story-now-frodo-will-be-really-afraid/
Here’s the bottom line on Debby, She did everything she could have done.
No one kicked her off the witness stand when she gave her testimony. She told everything she was an eyewitness to. It is all in the public record to be used by anyone. It’s a gift that keeps on giving. Just like her New Years letter. It can be sent over and over to anyone. you all can send it to whoever you want.
Miscavige must have nightmares about Texas. He keeps getting his ass whipped there. What’s with these Texans? Maybe it’s something in the water ….
Debbie’s sworn testimony in court can’t be put out of the world and will stay in the www for ever!
In the meantime, how many Auditors have been trained and certified? How many PC’s gone Clear? How many OT’s?
This is all a major distraction from what Scientology is supposed to be doing: setting people free. I coudn’t care less what these Cannibals are doing, now.
I want to see the stats.
Now that I have seen all the data I am really saddened by this entire cycle. It was brave of Debbie and necessary for her to come out and send that email. She was in lowers, in treason to herself let alone doing nothing to help the 3d with all she knew. How long did we all say, “If only Debbie would speak out…..” Many people left or went officially “under the radar” for good because of that email and much irreparable damage was done to Miscavige.
It is true there is no way we can know what threats and duress were made on Debbie when she and Wayne decided to settle. I know the church to be a mafia type operation and I dealt with it for years. But to sign another gag order without insisting as a stipulation she be allowed to release some communication as in “announce to both sides” at least thanking her supporters and saying SOMETHING even if she could not be specific as to what was to come, she is back in the hell of TREASON that will take some figuring to get out of again.
I know so well the mistakes that are easily made in these situations when you are so under pressure and dealing with lawyers doesn’t help, but still……….It IS a betrayal because that is what it is, she is back in lowers again no matter what the reasons for their settling. She started up the conditions and did not actually do the steps and keep moving up.
I have the unusual rare experience of coming up the conditions in session at Flag (LRH describes this in original RPEC reference, the paragraph deleted in later DM revisions). After being out of treason to myself on the first dynamic after spotting an SP trying to destroy me for years, I was back in treason after serious crimes upon me by the good ole boy network at Flag in collusion with the SP. who I was not allowed to get away from. I was then ordered to never reveal and protect the churches PR.
For the next 16 years I cared about NOTHING but getting myself back out of Treason and proving application of the tech could correct all this and run out the 3d engram. 500 hours of PTS and Suppressed Person rundown later I finally was out of Treason to myself again and out of the Church as well. It all made sense of course, I should have left the church 16 years earlier and not gone into treason and not covered up their crimes hurting my own surival. It only took me $100,000 and 16 years to realize the obvious.
I fought too long and hard to get back the Code of Honor to ever lose it again. Your integrity is more important than your life literally. And once you know that you are at a whole new operating level.
When the church then wanted me to sign a gag order, I walked away from my money. I was so in debt from the last two years of fighting inside the church and needing that money worse than ever in my life but I could not have lived with myself, I would not go back into Treason for anything. I would not sign a gag order, ever. They took it out when I demanded it be only for false statements I could not document and would apply to them as well, any lies they told about me. They wanted a 20,000 per incident penalty. As soon as I suggested the changes they took the clause out completely.
To agree to cover up crimes…….It’s like being in prison and losing your Grade 0 release forever. And you are now an accomplice. No matter how much money they got, they are now in a hell that is indescribable. I allowed myself to be under enforced silence covering up church crimes for 16 years and with a false label on me, persona non grata. I had no rights at all and not allowed to get justice.
I myself have sat here working her problem, how can she fix this? She can’t write a book to be published on her death bed, the church could legally stop it, she can’t speak out at all. She can’t even form a non profit and donate the money to it to go after the charity fraud of the IAS, (my idea, anyone ready to go?), She cannot help at all now. Another trick to the trap, she cannot speak, she cannot associate and she cannot help.
People comment on how she can’t do Scientology if she can’t associate with Independents but that isn’t true, Anyone can do Scientology on their own, No one can stop her from downloading materials and she’s fully trained and can audit right now and probably does. And she and Wayne can co-audit anything and everything beyond what the church delivers and we all know this or should by now. But you can’t make case gain while in Treason to yourself. You are out of valence, period. DM knows exactlly what he is doing. This is how he ensures no one in the C of S will ever be OT. They are all out of valence, in treason to themselves and PTS robots.
Any solution that requires Violating the Code of Honor and going into Treason to yourself and others is no solution, it is the ultimate problem. I’ve spent more time auditing problems on the suppressed person rundown than anyone in the history of the Church. I have an unusual perspective.
I hope Debbie and Wayne can spot the solution. It does exist. It will be so simple and so obvious and so ironic in the end but only they know what it is.
I wish them luck.
Kind of interesting to me that Scientology, predicated on the subject of truth, observation and communication, now has “gag orders” and censorship as it’s primary stock in trade.
A casual observer might wonder.. what is there to hide? It’s not Coca Cola’s secret syrup formula that ex-staff are carrying around.. just people who have worked intimately with the subject for 20+ years. Wouldn’t that be information worth knowing?
Unless Miscavige is successful in gagging everyone with any knowledge of the subject and particularly his misdeeds, the tipping point if not reached already, is quickly approaching.
I paid to support Debbie’s defense fund. The fact that she withdrew is her decision to communicate,based on whatever factors she had to weigh does not change the initial impact of her email. The damage was done with that and subsequent testimony.
Dave, your “gag” order is a bit too late…cat is long out of the bag.
The ‘Church’ gets to bully Debbie and her Husband but, we all can see clearly what they are trying to hide.
‘Church’ – FAIL
Debbie – Win.
Thanks for all the back ground and links Marthy and Mark Rinder and others/
One has to read and try to come to terms with the decision Debbie made . One does have mix messages or feelings about it all and their are questions But she did explain the situation of conditions of the Then Named ” hole ” as it was called which is her experienced and her time there and thats backed up by suppoortive evidence of any others drama in the same place who now have left. She had gunts. She damaged Dm a lot.
His reputation as Leader of the Church of Scientology is damaged.
and how he denies a worms his way with paying off to remain out of trouble.
DM stands there blently in the eyes of the the public and with them not knowing the real truth and he is likley still to bluff them to get their bucks
They don’t know what this man does to keep himself out of shit
or do they know under what false representation he runs the
Church of Scientology under . God Help the public / and staff.
You hope they bloody read the internet and research regardless of orders
against doing so.Ceraintly not all abide by his rules.
Well DC and Jan Eastgate cases caved, my fun continues.., just had the latest Listing come through on my sibling harassment claim appeal.
The first two listings were full of fundamental errors that assisted the court/prosecution, though this was informed to all parties in the strongest terms, the latest Listing was detailed out as ‘1 hour legal arguments’ when actually it was agreed in court(and recorded) as half day.
Contacted Listings who agreed to revise the latest ‘error’ (but refused to send out written correction!), we are now batting 3 out of 3 or 100% ‘errors’ on Listings from the Court.
Persistent little Devils aren’t they!!
This is something that’s come up a few times on the Voice comments this week and I’d figure I’d just ask and see what’s going on.
A few times, both you and during this whole cycle, Debbie Cook, made comments to the effect that there were some dark secrets you could bring forward to levy at the Church. To quote a recent post: “I am letting David Miscavige know right here and now that should the slightest twist of truth be published and attributed to the defendants, the gloves will come off – and I will fill the world in on the details of what really went down in technicolor.”
So I have to ask, why wait? If you have this ability, and this information, then why let David Miscavige continue his pretty obvious reign of terror and torture ANY longer? It seems to a lot of us, if you can do anything, and you truly care about your religion and the people being ruined by its current leadership, then you have something of a moral obligation to make this knowledge known.
That’s just how I see it. I’d welcome hearing your thoughts on this.
By suing Debbie, DM has initiated a butterfly effect that he’ll never be able to stop.
Debbie completed 2 very fine jobs and everyone who helped her should be commended: 1) Her letter explained what is wrong with the Church and what to do about: forward the letter to other Scientologists and stop paying money for DM’s suppressive off-policy projects. 2) Her testimony in court exposed DM as the psychopath that he is to the world at large.
DM gives out no stats except false stats, but HE gets the real stats and down in his bunker he can see the worldwide income stats are way DOWN and the number news articles about him being a nut job are out the roof.
Debbie, and the people who helped her, put a giant dent in DM’s ability to carry out his Ponzi scheme, which requires continuing income and good PR. Even the most ardent Koolaide drinkers will begin to wake-up or at the very least they will slow their unbridled financial support.
The cult is deteriorating. It’s a good day for all of us.
Mr. Miscavige, please take heed:
“Three things are conducted in secret – not openly: They are affairs with women; blind attachment to modes of behavior, methods, creeds and institutions; wrong views, beliefs and ways of thinking.”
It is now time for you to do a public interview to explain your behavior.
George M. White
Debbie’s New Year Eve email was for me the final nail in the “church”.
Post it far and wide, and the video clip of her testimony, too.
WE STAND TALL.
We need more books!
Everyone with book length thoughts (chapter length discussions) about any of Scientology history, please start writing!
Scientology is very young.
Even though most think official Scientology is dying a slow death, I think it’s always been trickling along, with spurts in areas which were thankfully left alone from bad Sea Org management.
I don’t think that even the bad management today is gonna kill the movement.
I think new generations are always coming along, stumbling into Scientology, slipping into the movement despite the internet exposures.
I hear of the newbies slipping in despite all the good media warnings.
I jokingly tell parents and people brand new who I get calls from (on the 866-XSEAORG advice line), I tell them the truth about the movement, and I bring up that if the new young people caught up in Scientology, if they want a big challenge, then rise up internally and reform the mess, .The freezone and independent Scientology splinter groups are the pilots for reforming official Scientology.
And take Debbie Cook’s story as the most recent big long range lesson.
His witholds get caught !!!
Yr right about that
It was remarkable how the eyes and ears were all listening /
Some one was looking down on her in that court room .
Their attorneys shaking in their shoes and about bloody time..
Its how long and how fast that new years email keeps getting through
the channels within. The Public better look and Know the truth.
The house built on sand is slowing fading away!
Thank you Debbie for revealing some of your experiences. The world now knows what really goes on behind the scenes.
You have been a great help.
To state the obvious, if DM and his “church” had nothing to hide there would be no need to silence anyone, and especially silence them so loathsomely and violently. Debbie spoke up despite being earlier ordered to be silent while a prisoner. She was punished for that, spoke out again in a very relevatory manner and then silenced again. Me thinks that in the public mind the question is not why did Debbie do what she did. The lingering question is WHY did David Miscavige do what HE did. What’s this violent silencing of people all about if there’s really nothing to be ashamed of?
It is explained within the post itself.
Excuse me RR, this is BS. There were a few more things she could have done. She could have kept on communicating, kept her commlines open for one thing. She saw what it was like at Int, and she decided to forever keep quiet about all that sadistic insanity. I am not walking in her shoes but I can see what’s going on.
In my opinion, Miscavige’s latest overt product has ignited the fires of hell for all to see along the entire pathway of the Bridge. Up in the sky black acrid smoke plainly spells out B E W A R E !
Who would dare set foot on his Bridge to Violence with such documents (including the latest poison injunction) having been entered into the public record? Only those seeking death. Tone level of Miscavige’s recent actions: Owning bodies.
Thank God the Bridge to Total Freedom is still open outside.
I reckon that Debbie has done what she needs to do. Now she and Wayne should be left alone to recreate their space and energy for their new life. The damage has been done on COS. What Debbie has told are all in court record. The court did refrain Debbie from revealing more, but it did not deny the existence of abuses she had suffered. COS maybe happy that they can keep ex members silent by litigation. But people will learn that they should re-think before they decide to join or participate in this corporate, because if they are going to leave and speak out, they will lose freedom of speech too. A totalitarianism is what COS won (and a complete lost in the mean time).
Love the way you see this, Oracle.
Hi Carisa, looking forward to hearing what you write on your blog. You’ve got a lot to say and it is appreciated.
I should preface by saying that I am very prejudiced – that I did choose Texas this lifetime. Texas does have a unique third dynamic that most states don’t. And it has a strong culture of independence. “Don’t mess with Texas” is the theme of an anti-litter campaign, but it could also be a motto for the culture. The very name Texas comes from the Native American word for friend. We know what friendship means and what a friend does for another. Definitely #1 on the Code of Honor. We stand by our friends. Marty’s neighbors were a strong demonstration of that. If DM is as smart as others say he is, he will “red line” Texas and keep his ass out of here.
I haven’t commented much on this topic for good reason.
If I’d been Debbie, I would have used the $50,000 received from the NDA signing, and gotten my business going. Over the next 5 years I would have setaside that $50,000 from profits. I would then have retained an attorney and handled that NDA legally: pay back the $50,000 and break the contract. After all, it was a coerced/extorted contract bound by the $50,000. I would then have taken a deep breath and communicated from a strong position to help my friends and family. Rachel
I have to agree, Yvonne. I love Texas myself for the same reason. I keep one of those “Don’t Mess With Texas” stickers in my car. I like being a Texan when I go visiting there.
David Miscavige & Company (aka Cronies) got their ass kicked in Texas!!!!
I pray for a better world which I believe is a the grand design of the universe.
Sometimes its 3 steps forward and 2 steps backwards.
I’m proud to call you and Ken friends!!
You speak the truth, sister. Davey picked the wrong place to try his bs. Ain’t no place like Texas. Amen.
I think you hit the nail square on the head. What should be emphasized by the media and anyone else making a case, is Debbie’s letter, her testimony, and all the attempts by the church to silence her AND the fact that she was silenced in the end, indicating more dirty laundry the church doesn’t want aired.
Marty I disagree with the description of the trial as a “Backfired” action. If anything that foot nuke went off and DM’s shoes will smoke for awhile.
… and we also welcome anyone who decides to move here and call themselves “Texan”. No one quibbles about where you were born. You come here, take on the beingness of Texan, and that is good enough for us.
You are much too high in wavelength to get any kind of sympathetic response from DM. It won’t even hit a harmonic as where he sits is waaaaay down there, and it all gets inverted. PAB 15, Acceptance Level Processing (and PAB 16 for more data) is something to consider; what DM craves is so repugnant to most beings, that you have to really remember to put a grappling hook formly on the edge of the abyss, as you go down to get some Reality on what he’ll accept as communication.
To get an idea of this, take a look at the fact DM “knows” that all public on the OT Levels are committing heinous acts, reprehensible acts, that he MUST find out, and KNOWS they exist. These acts are “valuable” to DM. They are his reality, his level of affinity and so any comm to get across to him has to be something foul.
For instance, look at the result of Debbie’s court cycle. Rather than something that resolved any issues, it is now another 3D engram of secrecy and cut comm for a lot of people, meant to hang them up and embroil their attention. The exact opposite of what Scientology is supposed to do – free attention and open up comm lines.
As you well know, “acts” are the key component of “karma”. Poor DM, like Dorian Gray, his acts are apparent to all but him, so far. He’s getting inklings though. As support withdraws and the taint of connection to Dave takes its toll.
AS LRH says, “get in a safe place and speak up”. (I think this was in “An Ethics Officer His Character”.)
Debbie wasn’t in a safe place, although she may have thought she was. She caused a lot of damage to David Miscavige, no doubt about that, and she probably has helped to free a lot of people. But I think in addition to that there are some lessons to be learned.
One thing I have learned over the years is that the need for money can put one in a position to apparently have fewer choices than one would like. I had to learn that borrowing to do the Bridge was a bad idea for this very reason.
Those who leave the Sea Org with a payoff (then or later, of one kind or another) have given up control of their lives.
That is exactly what has resulted from DM’s attack on Debbie and Wayne.
As to the Bridge being open, in my recent travels I’ve talked to a number of those who have been run through DM’s squirrelled NOTs.
I’ve shown them the actual LRH materials, and one for one, they can see that DM has actually CANCELLED, and omitted thwhat the original NOTs material describes as the “ideal” and “best” methodology to be applied on the level.
Add to that suppressive alteration, the continuous and grossly out-tech violation of the sec checking he does every 6 months, and put on top the altered definition of an FN (see my article on Scn-cult for the exact references on what an FN actually is) and you’ve got what amounts to an attack on the state of OT that can be gained when the LRH materials are applied as originally intended.
A plus point I’ve noticed with those who have run Dave’s NOTs. When left to their own devices and application of even that altered tech, they have gained reality on what CAN be acheived, and it doesn’t take much to indicate to them the departures and with a validation of their knowing and ability, they recover and can DO the level as it was supposed to be done.
Yes, the actual Bridge is open. The dream is valid. It can be done and the results obtained.
Hyperbole much? 🙂
Reading between the lines: They got sick of fighting CoS. Its expensive, stressful and nothing to gain except satisfaction for some ex-members who aren’t sitting in their shoes anyway. The gag order must have been agreed to on threats of further litigation if they did not agree. Why else would they agree?
And that is why you are you and she is she.
Then I and others are missing the explanation. We’re just not getting it. You’re certainly under no obligation to explain yourself but just so you know there are many of us who do not understand your thought process here. I know there are a lot of people in your group and in the indie camp as a whole who distrust those who are (for lack of a better term) non-believers. But as a total outsider I can tell you that it is starting to seem like you’re either holding back because this information implicates you in some way or that this information doesn’t exist. I’m not taking either of those positions, but many others are– And it might be worth addressing this head on. Just my opinion.
Stefan, many others saw much much more at Int than Debbie ever did. Read Mark Headley’s book. Read Jeff Hawkins’s book. Read Amy Scobee’s book. Debbie was there for what, a year? Mike, Marty, Amy, Jeff, Mark were there for more than 20 years each (Mark maybe 15). There is no question that Debbie moved the line. Significantly.
Like most non-Texans, I can be very conflicted at times about Texas. I mean, this is the state that inflicted GW Bush on America! And executes more people than the rest of the country combined, I think. Then there is west Texas, which must be the most God forsaken land on earth. I took a train trip across Texas on New Years Day 2004 after having recently blown Int and I was stunned how the desolate landscape went on hour after hour after hour. Of course all that, even W, pales from this Scientologist’s point of view when you have Marty and Mosey in Ingleside and Steve in Dallas, which makes Texas the center of the Scientology universe today. (And can’t forget Austin with Jim Hightower.)
Debbie and Wayne,
Good luck. Thank you for all you have done.
If you have now received just rewards for your all of your sacrifices then please do remember to thank the all the parishioners in the church who contributed their children, their family members, their happiness, their homes and their life savings to contribute your retirement fund – parishioners who are still trapped by the lies that you are now helping to ensure stay hidden.
Enjoy it. You have earned it. Do try not to choke on it.
Forewarning to any sweet, light, good-hearted, folks out there who may take offense by my inability to sympathize with these poor victims. IDGAF! I will not condone people ‘decisions’ which will only cause beings to cave themselves in even further.
Miscavige – Debbie and Wayne were once decent people. They may have given up on themselves but I will continue to fight on for them. Be seeing you in Dublin… June 30th. Mark your calendar – expecting to see some OSA folks in attendance.
That’s right. Now she is gone and forever for this life time. I will send flowers.
Then you are not reading. It is very clearly in that post. If you don’t get it, I cannot make it any more clear. Sorry.
Failed purposes are a bitch. Hung in the stops and barriers, one’s attention loses sight of the mountain, and hangs up on the rocks.
Perhaps the gag order is a dramatization of Miscavige’s secrecy computation to which Mike Rinder alluded in his (excellent) article on Steve Halls website “On DM’s behaviour”. I agree with EISM. Why should anything be a secret? And didn’t Debbie quote LRH about not dropping the curtain between the Church and the public on anything?
What I also notice is that it was the Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization Inc (“a not for profit religious organization incororated in Florida. It conducts its activities primarily in and about Clearwater, Florida.” as stated in the Motion for Summary Judgment) who sued Debbie, but the ‘Agreed Final Judgment” refers to Debbie and the “the Church Parties” which includes CSFSO, CSI, RTC, officers or former officers, parishioners or formers parishioners. In fact it seems “the Church Parties” includes everyone except Miscavige’s dog! I cannot believe that if the case went to trial that a judge could have been able to include “the Church Parties” so broadly! This speaks so loudly to the existence of another confidential agreement (if anyone was in doubt). And I am sure that the plaintiff “CSFSO” did not pay Debbie any money. But RTC, IAS, CSI undoubtedly did and it earned them a place in the “protection” of the injunction. So the injunction may contain the truth – but NOT the WHOLE truth! Blatant BS!
And the injunction seems to me to be as emasculated as an SP declare is these days. Debbie signed an NDA with a sanction for breach, and they sued her. Now there is an injunction with NO apparent sanction for breach. And what if she breaches? Does someone get to shake a finger at her? Do they revive the litigation? (Oops, that won’t help the CofS! That’s the last thing they want.) Does it amount to a criminal offence to breach an injunction? (Oops – then there will be a trial that cannot be stopped unless the prosecutor says so. Hmmm what to do? what to do?) It’s nothing other than window dressing for the benefit of those on the inside so Miscavige can justify the obscene waste of parishioners’ money (the accounting of which seems to be “non-public information” – just to add salt to the wound!).
I will bet there is a sanction in the confidential agreement. And if Debbie breaches and the CofS takes action – what happens to the confidentiality of that agreement? Oops – maybe another foot bullet for the CofS.
If you take the injunction literally it even seems to protect Marty and the rest of us from Debbie ever divulging private information about us all. Hahahaha. Thanks DM! We are “parishioners/ officers/ former parishioners/ former officers.” included in the “Church Parties”. So if anyone wrote/spoke to Debbie, or funded Debbie, surely that is “private information” that she is prohibited from disclosing in terms of the injunction?
This is not a win for the CofS at any level that I can think of.
And if it was going to end this way anyway, then better sooner than later. Not another energy particle need be wasted for the small potential additional benefits to be gained. I agree with you Marty when you say legal is the LEAST effective means of changing anything. You scored big in a short space of time – that’s the best that can be got from this cycle.
Debbie would have been tied to that whipping post were it not for the actions taken by Marty and Mike. It would have looked very different if M&M had not stepped in to turn this debacle into the “Textbook Backfire” that it absolutely is. The exact correct estimation of effort was made. CofS lost money and Miscavige lost face. And WORST of all – Marty and Mike were behind it all. It must gall him.
I understand that in that particular instance you cannot speak on certain matter pertaining to Debbie Cook. However nothing should preclude you from speaking out on other hinted at “insider information”. Maybe I’m not being clear because I meant my statement to be a bit more generalized and I used the closest example at hand. But I’ll restate the last part of my original post as a question.
If you have information or evidence that is damaging to David Miscavige and could potentially save others from going through the horrific things that both you, Debbie Cook, and many others have undergone. Information or evidence that could directly lead to an all out reformation of your religion, isn’t it in many ways, a moral duty for you to come out with this evidence or information– if not for the good of those in the church then for the good of your religion as a whole?
Trust me, I know we have our share of dimwits and criminals. Met a few personally. Not proud of “Shrub” Bush or the execution thing in the least. Still, there is a sense of loyalty to your friends and neighbors and a pretty good sense of the value of personal liberty among the common men that transcends political lines.
Very clear analysis of DM. He is indeed defiled.
I don’t really expect a response from him.
Met him only once, but I feel compassion and
the urge to reach out to this being.
After all, he will probably be in one of the
very lowest realms for a very, very long time.
May all beings be well and happy even in the lowest realms!
George M. White
Just in case there are parents in this thread I would be remiss by not posting this here and to give you all a chance to weigh in.
The difference between Dave Tech ™ and LRH for those on Dave’s suppressive line:
“We’re dealing, in processing, with self-cognition, aren’t we, continually-recognition of self, recognition of life, cognition. Fellow finds out new things about himself. He finds out that he can do this, that he doesn’t have to be afraid of that. He discovers these things,
doesn’t he? And all of our auditing is actually slanted in the direction of self discovery.
This is sort of a covert method of sitting the guy down and instead of yapping data at him on the subject, “Now; you realize that it is because you kissed your little sister when you were two is why you’re aberrated.” I mean, we don’t do that, see.
“What we do is we run him on the basics of existence and we don’t care what he had to discover. He’ll tell us sooner or later in a great shocked state that, my golly, it didn’t matter whether he kissed his sister or not, did it? And, self-cognition.”
“And we don’t want anybody to recognize what’s wrong with him. We want to recognize what’s right with him.” Tape, 10 Dec 54, 9th ACC, The Practice of Dianetics and Scientology.
So much for Dave’s Sec Checking obsession.
“Happiness is seeing Lubbock, Texas in your rear-view mirror.”
Yes Dan, she did move the line.
…any comm to get across to him has to be something foul.
Now, that is a spot-on observation, Jim.
In the years when I worked for the church renovations, I was frequently in DM’s presence. More often than not, I had no need to do anything but ack his presence when he walked through our unit, but on one occasion, I actually did speak to him.
We were on the verge of completing major renos to the Fort Harrison. Our guys had performed miracles for months on end, and had done a bang-up job, the whole way through. I was quite proud of everything we’d achieved under extraordinary pressures and circumstances.
I just happened to be standing close to him as both of us were observing our guys remove some steel constructions outdoors during a nasty lightning storm. What they were doing was courageous in the extreme, and I commented to DM that I was extremely proud of the team and what we’d all accomplished. He turned and looked at me with this quizzical sort of expression, then sort of huffed and walked away.
You’d think I actually insulted the guy.
Ronnie — you did insult him. YOu acknowledged someone else in his presence rather than noting the obvious — you were in the immediate vicinity of greatness and had entered the orbit opf the center of the universe. Oh, what a blind, ignorant fool you were….
There is no such thing as settlement with David Miscavige.
Reading all original LRH books I get that progressive higher levels of
levels of ARC is the way to go. I found this to be true.
Look up in Red on White Vols “Revenge” see what Rons says
( if D.M.hasent already done away with that)
Things will work themselves out for the better.
Tunedal,Point well taken. I’m being kind. Debby definitely helped with both the New Years letter and testimony. Yes she could have done more but the credibility she brought to the table validates all the other eyewitnesses who wrote books or blogs and who had a longer and deeper look at the pus of corporate Scientology.
+10 — very well thought out.
Heh….oops! My bad — NOT!
There is so much good in the worst of us,
So much bad in the best of us
That it ill behooves any of us to talk about the rest of us.
I like this quote, and when I can embody the spirit of it in my life, i think I am a better person. Not judging people and situations I don’t have all the details on, not criticizing others on actions where I haven’t or can’t help improve them.
Debbie and Wayne are/were friends of mine. I knew Wayne for a long time, first meeting him nearly 30 years ago while he was going through a crisis divorce in Sydney. I like Wayne, he is a lot of fun and always good for a laugh when he lets his hair down.
The one that surprised me was Debbie, who I did not expect to really like believing she was a high and mighty snotty exec type with an ego the size of Texas. Debbie was delightful, kind, considerate, strong, compassionate, she listened … if asked to recall a “happy thought” about Debbie, it was her unexpected school girl giggle and laugh once she felt comfortable and could let her hair down. When we first met, I didn’t see the laugh. I also didn’t see the laugh after she sent her letter out.
When we first met, my advise to them was to build a life entirely outside of the COS, build a life and success on their own merits, to learn how the world works and design a life that thrives on it. That is the sole concept our friendship was built on. It is not as easy for a “lifetimer” as it sounds. I believe Debbie and were suffering personally and becoming increasingly bothered for not taking responsibility for things they experienced and contributed to. I would not have done what they did as they did it, but I am not them and walking in their shoes so I can’t judge. I do believe they did what they thought they had to do, but were naive as to the reaction and consequences. I respect them for their integrity in standing up in the first place, right or wrong.
The public record pretty much says they can’t remain friends with me, and I haven’t had more communication from them. This does make me very sad.
But I suspect, knowing them, once into the battle they realized the magnitude of what it would take to fight, realized they needed massive support to continue, and realized also their supporters would be attacked as many already were and declared. I suspect, strongly suspect, a, if not THE driving force for their settlement was not having to drag others, friends, into the hell they were living. Honorable in their own way, they never asked me for money or to enter into the legal fight, I think they liked having a friend with no agenda other than building a brighter future.
Perhaps many thought Debbie would be the death blow, or the new savior. Those don’t really understand the strength and determination of the COS. The fight would have taken millions, I suspect between Marty and Debbie only $20-30,000 was raised. How could someone send $50 or even $1,000 and get upset because someone was unable to wage a multi million dollar war?
The COS is suffering consequences of its own actions right now, perhaps even a death by a thousand cuts, good people are being declared almost daily, more are leaving, they aren’t recruiting … do the math. A thousand cuts can’t come from one or two people.
One of the things that bothers me is the pack mentality I often see on the internet, they can turn ugly and viscous. People want to agree, they want to be on the willing side, they want to fight, they want a common cause and theme and leader … what about out own personal responsibility? Walking to the beat of our own drum. Being our own captain, holding our own counsel? I don’t hate everyone still in the COS, I don’t love everyone out. There are no neat labels in life, little black and white, lots and lots and lots of gray. They middle path Marty describes so frequently and well.
If there is a lesson here for me, it is personal responsibility, if I don’t like something DO something about it, don’t just bitch and whine about it. If I don’t like my life CHANGE it, not whine and complain about the past, something relatively important against the value of the future.
Debbie and Wayne got quite ill earlier this year. Only one person I know came to help them in real life, not to help with the war, but to help them personally, drove 100+ miles with a big pot of home made chicken soup, banged on their door, made them eat, told them to shut up and go to bed and helped straighten up/clean up. Probably made several trips. The isolation they were under probably made this simple gesture one of the greatest acts of kindness a person can experience. Yvonne, I know Debbie and Wayne love you and Ken.
I need to take a break for a while, because in dealing with others, I don’t know where personal responsibility starts and stops, nor the correct place of and limits of compassion and charity. For myself, any dwelling on victim state is personally devastating, but don’t think this is true for everyone. Until I can grok this, I have limited value in helping others.
I understand in spirit, but reality is often different. Debbie was unable to work for at least a year after leaving, and required close to full time care and extensive medical treatment, and start a life. Wayne’s sole driving purpose was to help Debbie get well. Under such circumstances, $50,000 is nothing.
I believe it takes at least 5 years after leaving the SO to become personally stable, and at least 10 years to become solidly financially stable. Decompressing all the way.
Even the dust bowl of West Texas has its charms in my opinion. It is helpful to see it thru the eyes of a local.
This post gets my vote for best comment. It covers all the bases so well that I am ready to end cycle on this matter and move on to a new game.
She can solo audit or twin with her husband all she wants, but there’s a little catch, there are 8 dynamics, and she has to take responsibility on all of them, not just the first.
amen, amen, amen
Have to smile Very well put
I’m in on going after the fraud that is IAS!
Keep me posted.
Dan, come to Texas and say them words!!!
Dude, there are 800 posts of it on this blog for you to gorge on. Splurge.
Yes, I think people still in ARE going to think about this. Why did David Miscavige stop the lawsuit against Cook if there was nothing to hide? I also think DM will snap down even HARDER on those still in the corporate church. More sec checks, more “don’t look, don’t talk, don’t anything”. And it will make people think even more, if it was Cook who is wrong then why all this?
Whats on june 30th ?
Well said, Mike, and thank you for filing in some of the information holes. Probably a lot of what has been said these last few days has been an attempt to somehow make sense of the whole thing. I would say the secrecy factor is responsible for that.
Thanks for your comment. I do totally understand what you state and do not disagree with you one bit.
In all actuality, I suspect the timing may have been off on this Cook email. If the timing had been correct, the position would already have been established as rock solid = that NDA nullified or cancelled or whatever.
To prepare for that rock solid position, it may have been right to work another year or two. It also occurs to me she could have sent out an appeal to us for help on back channels; there’s quite a network out here and we are helpers!
Debbie seems to be a perfect person to speak and speak she did. But then her position likely became untenable, rather than effective. Then came the appeal for help. Cart before the horse.
Yes, good things resulted from this email cycle and probably will continue to occur. But we all have something to learn … Rachel
Laughter! I got dragged out of a diner in Texas by two highway patrol officers. Some girl sitting behind me in another booth suddenly broke into my conversation and sneered, “I wouldn’t be caught dead in New York.”
In the end, the people didn’t much mind the brawl that ensued but everyone got REAL serious about my paying for the food the people at my booth never had a chance to eat. As we drove away I looked back through the window of the diner and watched the highway patrol officers sitting back down at our booth to eat our untouched dinner.
Yvonne, yes, that has been my personal experience with Texans.
Mike, you’re in EAST Texas. That is a different planet than Worst Texas. Of course, then there’s Houston. 100 degrees and 100 percent humidity.
Consider this: DM is using Cook to find out exactly who is in the Independent Scene and how willing are they to fight.
Noah, There seems to be some attitude that Debbie and Marty owe people something in the form of information. They had to live their lives to gain the knowledge they have. What is Scientology but Hubbard selling knowledge? It is a commodity. Maybe Marty is able to hold David in check with the flow or not of information. Maybe Debbie is able to hold David in check with the flow or not of information. This idea of enforcing people to communicate as in ordered sec checks is quite abberated as it is way down in the enforce band. Nobody owes it to anybody to provide information unless they are getting paid in some manner to collect information, as in census takers. Each person has value with knowledge and words and how they choose to spend them is a personal decision.
P.S. I did employ a diction coach after that and taught myself to how speak all over again.
You grant him far greater foresight than he possesses. He lives for yesterday.
If you had been Debbie, you would have put in 27 years in the Sea Org too.
Your last name would be Mr. Wayne. You would have been stuffed in a trash can and slapped and tortured by your “peers”. Sadism IS on the tone scale. And it is so far south that people that can swing that low really should not be placed so high. Especially with some power over people’s lives.
Great post, great analysis Picanin!!
Beautiful Mike, Thanks so much for this. I’ve said it before and at risk of being redundant, I believe the overarching tech that applies here comes out of LRH’s research into confusion and the stable datum. We are at war with a confusion. The only way we win is by putting in order. LRH says don’t fight or resist the confusion that blows off. Of course putting in order results in confusion blowing off. Putting in order very very fast results in an explosion — per LRH. An explosion is what we got with Debbie and Wayne seemingly being blown right out of the game. Well, the size of the explosion was in proportion to the order they put in.
Confusion is blowing off now. Even mis-emotion is confusion blowing off. LET IT GO cause it’s confusion. What the rest of us needs to do is focus on putting in order. A Scientologist is not someone who stands around bitching. A Scientologist is first of all effective. Vent in private conversations with friends, not in a public forum. Contributing to what Mike said, we can be pissed off or not pissed off, dismayed, inspired, happy, sad, whatever. The fact is Debbie and Wayne took the ball and ran with it down field further and faster than many have done. Anyone who has not yet contributed mightily has no right to complain. The final chapter of Debbie and Wayne has not yet been written. What will they do next? What will they do later? Time will tell. And you’ll be there to watch it all unfold. But none of that is even important. What is important is what are you personally going to do about the suppression emanating from David Miscavige? I’ve done a lot already and I’m still just getting started.
Dan, we have 100 degrees and 100% humidity, and with our work, try getting inside a tank, 100% humidity, black on the outside, 140+ inside, wearing tyvec environmental suits, respirators … and the smell of money … ahem oil … and I thought the running program at Int base in the middle of summer was bad … some of us actually gotta work for a living.
Good thing is smarter, better bred folks look at it and say “I ain’t gonna do that, no way” so we have great job security.
We do have a lot of pine trees, though, and pine trees make people crazy. We are behind the pine curtain. Had to fire a guy once for trying to hide a live alligator on our facility once, he wanted to fatten it up to eat it. Next time we meet IRL I’ve got some some stories for you!
I don’t see it so much as privacy and pride. For the first time, sometimes in our lives, we are entitled to our privacy and can have it. We don’t want to spread our problems to the world, a double edged sword … there is often a pretense or assumption that we are doing better than we really are, but it feels good to be able to have your own space, your own friends, and know not everything is spread all over the place. With the internet, we need to be careful about how we present ourselves, because everything said stays there for ever, available to everyone. My great great grandkids will be able to pull up every public post and all information on me.
Then there is pride. The SO seems to leave people often with tremendous pride, if not arrogance. We don’t want to communicate we are in trouble or need help. We often don’t even know what we don’t know, so don’t know help or solutions or education is available. A lot of us were primarily givers, a key part of our personality, and asking or taking can be exceptionally difficult. Then others have a massive entitlement mentality … and some have both running at the same time … expecting things without communicating or doing! The recovery and learning process is a bastard.
IMHO, Rachael, you are dead on.
The problem is we often don’t know what we don’t know, don’t know that there are often simple solutions our there for our problems, don’t have many real relationships to know and experience what true and unconditional friendship is.
But then again, some of the best things that have happened in my life have started with stupidity, mistakes, ignorance, naivete or being an outright idiot. I don’t believe it is as much what we did, but more what we make of it. There is always a way to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Thanks . Can i come to it ?
Understood, Mike. I can see how that would be.
I’ve contacted two attorneys on my idea to form a non profit to sue the IAS and both said, yep, great idea. Better than class action. Have gotten ahold of a couple people who were earlier trying class action but they never got things together it turned out. Anyone who knows of anyone who actually has a list of names, took steps to go forward, please have them contact me. Thanks!!
Thanks Thoughtful, totally agree.
I would also like to point out differences in Mike’s write up that can be mis-understood. Mike states COS in a few spots.
Mike says above:
“Perhaps many thought Debbie would be the death blow, or the new savior. Those don’t really understand the strength and determination of the COS.”
“The COS is suffering consequences of its own actions right now, perhaps even a death by a thousand cuts, good people are being declared almost daily, more are leaving, they aren’t recruiting … do the math. A thousand cuts can’t come from one or two people.”
The COS is different as written in the PL’s and HCOB’s before being altered by DM from the present time COS being run by DM. Confusion.
So, in my opinion, the confusion blowing off is DM and his altered ideas.
Thanks Quentin! I have it on hold, going through major levels of “decompression” while also getting my mom off psych drugs, this time for good. But my website will be up eventually and I am helping people get their money back still despite the apparent stop on all repayments. I do not charge for my help. I do have cycles going that will get their money and have seen all the latest letters of “denied claims” from people who contact me so………anyone who needs input and help while fighting for their money,
The people, the staff working for the COS do not know they are working for DM. They think they working for the COS. But in actual fact they are working for the CODM under the guise of the COS.
and on top of that, these PT staff and members think they are contributing to “clear the planet”.
Isn’t it ironic?! So many things are ironic in the Church of Miscavige but the gross Human Rights violations while pretending to be such big promoters of Human Rights. That’s a big one that should be more thoroughly exposed for its Dead Agenting potential.
I’ll put it in simplier terms since re-reading my post.
In the past COS=LRH, circa b/4 the 1980’s
In PT, COS=DM and his ideas, circa 1980’s
You sure have your fun don’t you?
The joy of PLAY!
That’s right Capt Bob, that’s why today’s CoS can be characterized as a “front group”. It is a front for DM’s real agenda.
RR, I see what you mean. In my view Debbie has moved up the conditions and did this so fantastically well. Now: Getting silenced by a clown like DM? This can’t possibly be the correct step for anyone who wish to move up.
cf33, correct, unless the pope topples off his applebox
and breaks his delicate SPgroundingrod, in which case,
she/they will magically return to the live comm lines,
minus the midget monster on her/their back/s.
Nonono, does taking some of the seriousness out of life,
ie. running laughter or rejection, as an emotional release,
have any contributing value, in the “intermission” period?
The restoration of LRH’s Aims of Scn, is again underway,
Check out the stats of the various representations of the
“Independent” movements! ie, Les & Anita, Ron’s Org’s, Friends of L.Ron Hubbard, The various Freezoners,plus
Ingrid, Trey,Karen#1, and huge numbers of Independent
Auditors, across the globe, including our very own host,
I believe, this very blog, is playing an ENORMOUS role,
in setting people free, don’t you agree?
I’m pretty sure they could all provide you with stats, too.
…”The court did refrain Debbie from revealing more….”
Actually, “the court” did not do that, Debbie/Wayne and the “church” agreed to that, and the court filed it. It is not a court generated injunction. It is an agreement between the plaintiff and the defence. David Miscavige and his legal council have used the court in such a way as to make it appear as though it is “court ordered”.
You appear to have fallen for the bait. Have another look before you swallow it whole.
Yes. It’s an open invitation. Even OSA are welcome (the troops need entertaining). Give me your info on facebook and I’ll send you the info.
Just my take on “dealing with others…where personal responsibility starts and stops, nor the correct place of and limits of compassion and charity. ”
For myself I always come back to Ethics, and the Dynamics….
With “Ethics” defined as “(6) that which is enforced by oneself, his belief in his own honor, and good reason,an optimum solution along the eight dynamics.”
L.Ron Hubbard has said that “you cannot get out alone”. That statement is true for me in this wise… If one has found the creation of “optimum survival” to be their their overall personal goal, and that Optimum Survival encompasses all Dynamics, then EVERYBODY is encompassed within that, as part of your goal. (In this, as in many things, there is no exact “optimum” to be achieved, hence the added qualifier, “toward”.)
As one finds situations that do not align with that goal, one would tend to do some kind of an evaluation, find the “why” and proceed to “handle the situation”, and continue to take these actions to correct the “existing scene”, to align more fully with the “ideal scene”.
In my “ideal scene” everyone is operating toward THEIR optimum level. Until that is achieved, I have work to do. It is the most encompassing and most rewarding game that I have ever contemplated or played. I consider it worthy of my attention and my creativity.
This is the basis upon which I choose to engage others. It is my own application of MY ethics, tech, and admin that determine my successes.
$cientology Paid out “no Money”? Really? How about ALLLLL the people (Mostly long time “OT’s) who were their base for cash IN, who left due to Debbie’s NYE e-mail and/or testimony? Now they try to claim that’s “nothing”? Really Davey boy? You are more FOS than when I was “in”. Thankfully, daily you prove why I (and many others) LEFT.
Tory/Magoo *(in for 30 years, escaped out in July of 2000 (literally): And Free for 11 years!~ Tick Tock, Tick Tock: Time is **still** on our side~! (and FYI OSA: “Our” Is ALL the X-Scios, Critics (peeps never “in” now exposing C of $ abuses), and Anonymous as well as ALL the Indies here and some Scios still “in” LOL! Oh yeah…”our” grows daily, despite your (OSA’s) attempted 3P and feeble sliming.
Great post! Your so right about pack mentality. I don’t know of any group that doesn’t fall prey to it as well; believe what we believe, do as we do, or you are ‘in bad’ with us.
There is SO MUCH she had left to say . She was head of FLAG when the whole nasty business with Lisa McPherson went down. I would have loved to hear her take on that. All the documents they Subpoenaed and the deposition from the church. All of this is why the “church” settled. If Debbie didn’t have Diminutive Dave over a barrel there is no way that little vindictive psychopath would have settled.