Final Reckoning – Cook v Miscavige

I have it on very good authority that David Miscavige is a seething wreck at the moment.

It seems over the past three days he has suddenly begun reckoning that in the last four months he has been taken to school, spanked hard, and sent home crying.  He has not quite yet come to grips that he has lead a bunch of immature boys against men.

Well, assuming he can get a grip on himself, this will be my final word on Scientology Inc v. Debbie Cook.

Below is the accounting for funds collected for the defense of Scientology Inc vs. Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten.  These are all of the funds received by me through this website and by mail and all of the disbursements for purposes of the Baumgartens’ defense.

I cannot account for any funds that were sent directly to Debbie Cook. I was never given access to the total figures received by the Baumgartens, let alone the details of the donations.

I do know that when they demanded that donations be made straight to them, they posted in writing the guarantee that any funds received would be returned upon conclusion of the case.  The case is concluded.  I understand from at least one donor that there is indication the guarantee will be honored provided donors send their addresses to Wayne and Debbie with a request.

I was asked by a donor to Debbie’s page whether receiving such money would be to receive blood money.  My answer was that I do not think that at all given the representations under which it was collected, other public representations on this blog by Debbie, and given my well educated estimation of what the defendants received.  I think not to get it back would be to saddle Debbie and Wayne with an overt that would plague them further on down the road.

I think that the energy of independents should be returned to them.

I so think that that should Miscavige obstruct that in any way, fashion or form all bets are off on the third paragraph of this post.

I never made any refund representation prior to soliciting donations for the defense.  I did two nights ago when more than one person expressed in blog comments disappointment with how the funds were utilized.

Since last night more than one person has offered to help me cover refunds (as you can see from the accounting virtually all funds received were spent on the Baumgartens’ defense) since I don’t have the money to do so.

I have a record of every person who made donations to the Indies defense fund through my paypal account and by check mailed to me. I do not have addresses for you.  For purposes of my record keeping I need to issue checks for refunds. If you want your money back from the Indies Defense Fund I collected the initial monies from please send your name and address to me at  along with the amount you donated and I will issue and mail you a check from the defense fund account.  Please have patience since as you can see the account is nearly empty.


14 Checks and cash payments received:                     3,400.00

72 Paypal donations:                                                         9,665.00

less 3.2% Paypal handling fee:                                       (309.28)

Total received                                                                      12,755.72


Check R Jeffrey retainer     13 Feb                                  5,000.00

Check R Jeffrey retainer    27 Feb                                   5,000.00

Rinder Tampa/S.A. round trip airfare Jan                       996.85

Rinder Tampa/S.A. round trip airfare Feb                       996.85

Check to R Jeffrey  12 March                                                600.00

Total disbursements                                                             12,593.70

balance Indie Defense Fund                                                    162.02

A final note on Debbie Cook and the impact of her having stood up.  My final reckoning is prompted by my need to move on. There are ripple effects created by Debbie’s email and court testimony that are being cultivated into waves that will make the first four months of 2012 look like child’s play.

Until then, until the end,

277 responses to “Final Reckoning – Cook v Miscavige

  1. Thank you for the honest & thorough accounting!

  2. Tom Gallagher


    We are happily donating our donation(s) to you to help defray the costs associated with running this blog.

    By the way, we’ll donate again if POB tries to pull anymore bullshit. Promise!

  3. I am looking forward to seeing those waves crash onto the shores of truth.

    The wind blows, the mountain is unmoved….

  4. Thank you for being so open.your accounting.

  5. Also Marty, thanks for the open accounting. I sent a check directly to Debbie, so we’ll see if she replys. I gave what I could afford and don’t expect nor want it back.

  6. If your good authority is correct then perhaps David Miscavige is just beginning to get a glimmer of what the real situation is.

    If only he’d realise he needs to man up, take total responsibility and commit himself to the RPF for the rest of his days. He might get it right next time…

  7. I didn’t donate to Debbie’s fund though I did write a lengthy affidavit in support of her case. It took time and sweat so feel I have the right to voice my opinion on the matter of refund of monies paid via this blog.

    As far as I am concerned, those that donated via this blog provided vital energy. They made it possible for Mike and Marty to use their skills to effect the very big wins that occurred.

    Though a request for refund may be within the contributor’s rights, and they are free to exercise such, personally, I think it would be a load of bollocks (as the say where I’m from). I feel so strongly about it you can count me in on helping to cover any shortfall. Seriously. Though I didn’t donate money to Debbie’s defense I would be more than happy to donate money to the defense fund now to cover any loss. We need to be looking to the future not the past.

  8. I would love to hear more about the seething wreck that Davie is becoming. 😀

  9. I would love to hear more about that seething wreck part. Feel free to go into detail so my smile can become wider and wider. 😀

  10. $12,600 to watch DM have his ass handed to him in court? THAT is what I call a bargain. A steal. That’s what, one intensive at Flag Class XII rates? Many times that is literally being pissed away at Flag alone on a daily basis. People, what our donations here or directly to Debbie (as mine was) bought for that is inestimable. DM’s last order of Jackson-flavored Scotch probably cost more. I can see DM reading this accounting and roaring with glee over “these piss ant Indies howling about refunds.” What does he care about the couple hundred Gs it cost him for the privilege of having his crimes put in the public record for all time? It wasn’t his money. And whatever was given to Debbie and Wayne (BTW, beware of the Curse of the Lottery Winner, guys) wasn’t his money either.

  11. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    “I have it on very good authority that David Miscavige is a seething wreck at the moment.”
    Haha money well spent.
    Thanks for the accounting – be sure to let us know if there’s any other way we can help.
    Play on!

  12. I gave the money straight to you, and though it wasn’t much the indians are GIVERS. Period. Truth has been turned on it’s ear upside down for as long as any of us can remember I suspect. You sound a little burned Marty, or is that me assuming you were? I never trusted that Debbie wanted our help, but I never doubted your desire to help. Keep my nickel. And thank-you. If kicking ass and taking names is the direction of your path right now, I’m not gonna argue with that.

  13. OMG!!!!-Getting money back from a fundraiser!!! DM and OSA-Bots, are you reading this? Thank you Marty for your generous offer and transparency. I’m fine on not getting my money back. Debbie’s letter and testimony did create a great effect!

  14. Another Layer

    Thanks again, Marty, for all you do/are doing. Donation is on its way.

  15. $12,600 to watch DM have his ass handed to him in court? THAT is what I call a bargain. That is about one intensive of auditing at Flag at Class XII rates. How many times more than that is pissed away each day in the Flag HGCs? Yet, I can hear DM roaring with glee right now about “those piss ant indies howling about refunds. Let the bastards set up their own goddam Claims Verification Board.” People, whether donations went here or directly to Debbie (as mine was), the value of what we got out of San Antonio is inestimable. DM’s last shipment of Jackson-flavored Scotch cost more.

  16. Marty,
    Thanks very much. I’m glad the Indies defense fund contributed to the “seething wreck”, it’s a great investment with fabulous returns! This is the end of this cycle – methinks we need to rebuild the fund for the next inevitable action!

  17. “There she paused for a while thinking… but the temptation was so great that she could not conquer it.”

  18. The same old LDW

    Thanks Marty,
    I had no expectations when we sent our donations and I hope that you are reimbursed by Debbie’s fund. We do not need anything back and, quite frankly we trust you to use the money wisely.

    What has actually been achieved, in my opinion, is priceless. Debbie’s letter and her testimony will be extremely valuable tools to help those in doubt for many years to come.


  19. Yes, Marty, huge thanks. I wrote asking Debbie if she would send my dono back, and if she does rest assured it will be going towards your costs as the least I can do. I would encourage others to do the same.

  20. Marty, Do you think they will try to use the injunction to rein you in? You’ve got to be their main target again, after Debbie being dealt with, besides the ongoing Annonymous group they can’t get at. I’m sure you are watching your back, sides and front. I enjoy and look forward to your new posts.

  21. Marty,

    My donation went to Debbie’s attorney through you. If you should get it back, please keep it for the indi defense fund.


  22. yvonneschick

    Very touching musical choice. You put me in tears with that one. A classic.

    Marty, you took a personal risk when you asked indies to support Debbie and Wayne. You couldn’t control the outcome and you risked the goodwill of your friends to help two people in desperate need after an attempt to forward the cause. I hope all will see that you acted in good faith, you did your very best to reach an outcome that benefited everyone concerned and harmed none, that you have earned to freedom to put this behind you as well with no future financial burden.

  23. One cycle of action completed. Time to start another salvo.

    I wonder what DM will do now to help us?

  24. martyrathbun09

    Stay tuned.

  25. martyrathbun09

    They tried for a month. They failed. They cannot. Crux of Miscavige’s current state.

  26. My antenna is positively quivering.

  27. martyrathbun09

    I’m not keeping anything. I am offering to pay back people who are dissapointed. Burned? Not me – I’m addressing those who feel they were.

  28. “Never regret yesterday. Life is in you today, and you make your tomorrow.” For some people, it’s time to move on.

  29. black knight

    HI I have one final word on Debbie

  30. Marty,

    Sorry but I’d just as soon leave what we donated to Debbie (through you and directly to her) hangin’ out there.

    Debbie and Wayne know our email address. If they feel a need to give it back, they’ll contact us.

    The question I have for you is, are you going to request that the Legal Defense Fund you set up, disbursed and accounted for above be reimbursed to you by Debbie and Wayne?

  31. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    … I wasn’t going to bother asking for mine back but now I think I will! That totally indicates 😀
    I shall be doing likewise. Thanks Martin.

  32. I think its not a bad idea for us Indies to have *more* Fund-raising if its going to be as well spent, and accounted for, as this!

  33. Hear, hear, I second this motion. Things have recently lightened for me, I can now see my way to help out a bit financially as well. Godspeed, Marty.

  34. Just a thought: what would be even more priceless would be for Debbie to stash the cash in untraceable foreign accounts then go and tell the WHOLE truth to anyone who asks. When the lawyers come calling tell ’em DM can swivel on her middle finger.

  35. martyrathbun09


  36. Try, Fail. Try harder. Fail harder. It really does suck to be David Miscavige.

  37. The exchange I got for my investment was hearing about DMs abuses in a court of law, very specific and on the record. I am happy with that result as we continue moving on up a little higher. Can’t hep right now in covering the refund requests but you know I will be adding to the general fund you sponser in very short order.

    You have a way of picking the perfect video to go with the post, This one was…hmmm…perfect!

  38. Well I hope they offer it back to you. At any rate, let us know if you need any help with requested refunds.

  39. Michael - retiredfromthechurch

    I am with you Haydn. In the words of Jack Higgin’s character, Sean Dillon, “If you don’t like the outcome, ya shouldn’t a’ joined.”

  40. Theo Sismanides

    That’s the spirit for whoever can do that! Thanks Simple! Marty is doing an awesome job and he cannot be alone! This is team spirit!

  41. Marty — LOVE that song! This is one of your best selections ever! It is both a great SONG and a great MESSAGE!

  42. Marty – I gave both you and Debbie a little money. I didn’t do it because I like you (even though I really do) and I didn’t give it because I’m friends with Debbie Cook (never met her) or because I thought she would become an independent or “save the church.” I don’t care what Debbie takes away from this; her life and her future are hers to create, good or bad.

    I gave because I felt it was vital to stand behind the only group on the planet that is fighting the corrupt corporate church. And I’m pleased with the results. Perhaps there could have been more if Debbie stayed with the fight. Or maybe there was nothing more to gain from this one battle.

    I am certain that without the independents and without you and Mike and all the others who worked so hard on this, there would have been no winning for us or for Debbie. If NOTHING else was accomplished, we have proven that we can stand together to fight suppression, and as a group, we are EFFECTIVE.

    So, I’ve sent you a little more money. Use it to help pay back those who feel let down, use it for future fights, or use it to support this blog. ❤

  43. Great Song & great Message! Indeed. I think we should have T.Morello perform this song at our final victory event. 🙂
    Marty, you are an amazing auditor, an honest human being and we are lucky to have you on our side.
    Thank you!

  44. Just mutiny (from the inside) & devise a plan and then you will have him in
    your hands.
    If you are brave and want permanent change you will be helped from above
    –by Him & her and the unamed.
    Take note: the incorporeal OT world is not one camp. –Thyrsus

  45. E.J. Croughs

    If it took a lousy 12 G to turn multi million Davey into a wreck, wonder what’s needed to pull the plug. And how’s that for return on investment…. and have the investment returned as well.

  46. It’s a great video but I have to say that when I was clicking on it, I was hoping it was my favorite: the Car Wash video. Why? Maybe because I laugh out loud every time I watch it. So first I watched your link then pulled up my favorite. You’ll hosing ’em Marty and DM knows it!
    ps. After all you’ve done to save the tech, you don’t owe anybody anything.

    To anyone needing a laugh after the seriousness of the past few days:

  47. Good point! The money we exchange / forward / donate is OUR money. David spends the Church’s money to handle his flaps! Blood money. I bet his tab to cover his crimes in Texas hit 250,000 +. He made it a “Church issue” to cover his tab through his IAS baby beggar slush fund. You have to admit the guy knows how to take care of himself.

  48. I totally agree with the assessment that McCabage must be going nuts. He did not get what he wanted, to destroy Debbie Cook. He had to be told no again, he could not have it his way. For those busting on Debbie, I too am saddened by her choice but few have ever been in her shoes. She did stand up and did more than most, and found out she was human. She also got the ass clowns to put her on the stand and for all time get on record that beatings do happen at the evil midgets behest. People can be mad but I would rather focus on how to use this new evidence to promote change where we can. Clearly DM was so worried about more information coming out that the cult agreed to a settlement that they said they would never make. Do you all recall at the outset how they stated publicly that they were going to make Debbie pay? Well they fell far short of their stated goals. Again you can be mad at her but you would do better to remember it as yourselves giving a woman a fighting chance who had none. Be happy for her that it is over and that she can have some resemblance of a life, while having given us the gift of telling her story on a witness stand. Yes DM has to be going nuts over all of this 🙂

  49. Theo Sismanides

    Great viewpoint Karen, however in my humble opinion, and though I did not donate as we are facing too many financial problems here in Greece already, I would say that Debbie should come out on this blog and say she will give back that money. Instead I see Marty doing that for her which shows a difference in Ethics level.

  50. Use the $126.02 to take Mosey to dinner at Water Street Seafood. You’ve earned it.

  51. E.J. Croughs

    She’s got Davey so by the balls; he’s damned if he pays her and damned if he don’t. Prices of scotch and copper gonna go straight up and vertical through the roof!

  52. Your humble servant

    Beautiful song, Marty, and a beautiful statement! Nah, I don’t want my small donation back; in fact I am thinking of sending you some more. Something shifted in my universe with yesterday’s San Antonio Express article. I had rather felt that Debbie’s bailing out might be a loss, or at least something that fell far short of the victory it could have ultimately been. It has now dawned on me though, that it doesn’t matter! Miscavige’s evil empire is coming to an end soon anyway, maybe even sooner than anyone here dares to think or hope. When it does, all of the suppressive, b.s. stipulations made in the stipulated judgment will become utterly meaningless. When the evil empire is ended, there will be no one left with the ability, or even the desire, to try to enforce them, and Debbie and Wayne will be perfectly free to say what they like!

    As was said, “the injunction speaks for itself,” and what it speaks in volumes is that the present, official Church of Scientology, is a mean-spirited, sneaky, contemptible organization for whom no tactic is too low or too despicable. It sets out for all the world to know that this organization has no qualms about using the talents and good will of a wonderful woman for the best part of her lifetime, and when that has been spent, tormenting and discarding her like garbage. Finally, in the end, it shows it will use every resource at its disposal to bludgeon her into silence about her ordeal. That is what is set forth for all the world to see in this remarkable document.

    Debbie and Wayne just took the opportunity to take what could be the evil empire’s last generous offer to shut people up in exchange for
    money. Things are falling apart so fast, there may not be any such future offers! They needed and deserved it, and also the respite from fighting that came with it! And I don’t mind that the money was bilked from parishioners. When the parishioners finally understand the full story, they will be happy for Debbie and Wayne to have the money.

    Be of good cheer, my friends, victory is at hand!

  53. “I have it on very good authority that David Miscavige is a seething wreck at the moment.” MR

    That alone is worth the money I sent Debbie & Wayne direct. If she needs to clear her conscience she can ask for my addr. and I’ll send it to her.

    Indeed kudos Marty for the accounting throughout all this, although, seriously, it doesn’t matter to me if Debbie asks for my address or not.

    Money was never the raison d’être.

  54. one of those who see

    Hi Simple. Same here. Marty, I sent a small cash amount though you for Debbie. If you get it back, please keep it for the indi defence fund. Love the song in the video and Thank You.

  55. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    I missed that bit. Thank you for that Marty. As if there was ever any doubt. ♥
    My response

  56. Exchange. I have paid for everything I got from the Church, good or bad. I even paid off my Freeloader debt. I personally sank tens of thousands of dollars of my own money into various projects and social betterment projects. Daniel Montalvo or whatever his last was, was a child laborer abandoned by his fanatical parents. Debbie Cook whatever we may think of her performance, was a fixture in a cog wheel that made it possible for many people to get up the bridge over her back. I was too, so was Daniel. Speaking for myself, if anybody anywhere thinks I owe more they can send my bill to the collection agency. It was Debbie who mentioned a refund, not Marty. Marty has bailed both Daniel and Debbie out of serious harm by giving them the shirt off his back. Mike also. If anybody should be complaining about exchange it would be Marty. He is not. He does these things because he cares about the people in front of him. Daniel was thrown in prison! And whether Daniel or Debbie either ever look back and pay for the taxi that took them across a river they could not swim themselves, is of no concern to me. We do what we do because we care about people. We have mercy and compassion. Both Debbie and Daniel for all they have done for Scientology were kicked to the curb and worse by David Miscavige.
    People know if they want a fair shake and need a helping hand they have to call Marty and they have to come to the Independents. That, for whatever money I have contributed to the cause, is worht every dime I have flowed and will continue to flow as I can. And that is why these matters when they fall on our plate work themselves out. We just have good intentions and we care. ALL good work comes back to you in some form.

  57. I sent a couple of C-Notes directly to Debbie…… I think it was on a Sunday too ……and if they are returned they will be sent to your fund.

    I wonder if part of the deal was to reveal all supporters and or donations received. I certainly hope not but not for fear of revelation but rather for her well being.

    I do appreciate what she has done. This will be interesting!

  58. I donated directly to Debbie’s site, and I have no need or desire to have the money sent back. I consider any money I have given in support of Scientology a “sunk cost” in that I gave it to help the cause (as I saw it at the time – like my IAS status).

    The wording in the agreement regarding “any of their agents, servants, employees, and those persons acting in concert with them” is an obvious targeting of you, Mike Rinder, me, and anyone else who helped Debbie out. In fact, to me it is so obviously egregiously stepping over the line of enjoining MY right to speak out that it could potentially be used to void the entire agreement. I love what Debbie did with her email and her speaking out on the stand, and I am glad to have helped her defense in my small way, but she does not have the authority to sign away MY rights. I am not a lawyer, but that clause seems like an achilles heel. I feel that Sugar Ray is smart enough to know that, and who knows? Maybe it is the poison pill.

    I am actually in a bit of mourning for Debbie and Wayne. They may be alive in body, but their lives as Scientologists and as active friends are over, and that is too damn bad. I am sure they did not make this decision lightly. My door is open to them should they desire to reach out, as I am sure yours is too.

    I agree with Mike – the song is awesome!

  59. People know if they want a fair shake and need a helping hand they have to call Marty and they have to come to the Independents. What we have paid for is who we are and that is WHY, you are very shortly here going to see someone of major value and importance flipping into the Independent movement. Stay tuned, this is going to get better any minute. This next person coming out is seriously going to kick these matters of the Church into fifth gear of this qual evolution.

    Free Earth.


  60. + 1 🙂

  61. Free Earth not because Hubbard said so, or someone ordered it. Free Earth because this is your world and you live in it too.

    Free earth.


  62. Bitter Defrocked Apostate

    Great to know that you “have it on very good authority” … so — moles in Teeny Weenie’s camp? Can’t wait to hear more!

  63. Hayden, I agree. I donated and also did an affidavit. My shoulder is to the wheel, and I aint changing my mind on my contribution one iota. If more is needed — I am here. The tide is turning and now is not the time to pull out resources.

  64. Claudio & Renata Lugli

    We Never Turn
    We Never Bend
    We Are With You NOW

    Claudio & Renata

  65. I sent Debbie a grand and as far as I am concerned it was the best grand I ever spent! There was a hell of a product with that on-the-record testimony. And how good does it feel to know that a guy like Ray Jeffrey got the money? I love to be able to support guys like that. He’s an ally if needed in the future. Keep the money. I am the richer for having spent it.

    You know what else I love? That we can all have our opinions and state them and no one tries to shut us down, make us wrong, send us to the RPF or make our family disconnect from us. Some are pissed at Debbie and can say it. Some love Debbie and can say it. Some are pissed at those who love Debbie and can say it. Some are pissed at those who hate on Debbie and can say it. We can talk TO each other, have opinions, vent, act stupid, indignant, self-righteous, saintly, compassionate WHATEVER. And we can SAY it. And maybe even get acknowledged. And FOR SURE NOT get punished. What an amazing freedom!

    Marty I await the next shoe with baited breath!

  66. That really wouldn’t be fair to his twin on the RPF. They’d NEVER graduate!

  67. Marty & Co,

    I donated to a purpose, to a future, to hope. The small amount of money that I gave to you was for you to use to fight the fight against suppression. I do not want this back and should you need anymore money I will contribute what I can again.

  68. If people see money coming back, that probably means Debbie and Wayne collected from DM’s slush fund. The more I think about this, the smarter Debbie’s moves were. I suspect this is not the end of the game.

  69. yvonneschick

    Beautifully said, Cindy.

  70. Like I said, I’m not gonna argue. You know what I meant by keep. God, you are such a pain in the ass:P

  71. Sounds (hopefully) like the scene in the “Return of the King” just before the Black Tower crumbles into dust…

  72. The Nightwatchman – Until The End Lyrics

    No one knows who gave the orders
    No one asks about the crime
    No one looks behind the curtains
    No one questions why
    The only time we got
    Is right about now
    I cross my heart
    I take the vow

    I’ll never turn
    I’ll never bend
    I’m with ya now
    until the end

    Tonight’s the test
    Tonight’s the time
    I am the punishment
    That fits the crime
    I’ll break the bricks
    I’ll pick the locks
    I don’t got nothing
    but I’ll give what I got

    I’ll never turn
    I’ll never bend
    I’m with ya now
    until the end

    10 trials whose outcome
    all fixed from the start
    9 judges sitting countin’
    there money in the dark
    8 towers of iron
    surround the desert town
    on a cold December mornin’
    7 martyrs knock them down
    6 fathers still waiting
    for there sons to come home
    5 mothers who know better
    and accept that there gone
    4 years I’ve been hunted
    still I breathe free
    3 times I shot the sheriff
    and did not spare the deputy
    2 prayers I’m prayin’
    until were together
    1 promise that I’m keeping
    tonight and forever

    I’ll never turn
    I’ll never bend
    I’m with ya now
    until the end

  73. Couldn’t agree more.
    I donated and definitely got my money’s worth: the knowledge that I helped!

  74. No offense, but it’s about your taste in music, guys … I like to dig around for the oldies. This one seems to fit the theme of moving on, and could apply to a lot, by many, in this series of threads … with best wishes to all.

    Hey, I’ve got a feeling
    Down in my shoes
    (I said) way down in my shoes
    I got to ramble (oh-oh-oh)
    I got to move (oh-oh-oh)
    I got to walk away my blues

  75. That’s my spirit exactly! +1! MandM redirected their resources for months here to bail Debbie and Wayne out and get them on safe ground again. Not to mention I noticed Marty did not take one dime for all of his costs with the San Antonio episode.

  76. I have emailed Marty to say he must keep my contribution sent via him.

  77. I’m sorry but I don’t see where Ms Cook promised to return $ after the settlement.
    Someone else was suing a doctor for religious discrimination and he was going to return $ with interest.
    I did not expect the $ sent to be returned except as “Karma”.

  78. Freedom Fighter

    David Miscavage being a seething wreck at the moment is worth the price I paid for admission — well, it’s a start anyway. Reaching for the popcorn…

  79. Agreed on all counts. Nice summary.

  80. Speakin’ o’ fail, Piscanin, on the thread just prior to this one had some very intewesting points of anawysis. Seems poor Dave has wots of weasons to be whackin’ his head against his enema bag.

  81. Freedom Fighter

    OMG! Piscanin’s assessment is brilliant! DM’s head must literally be exploding off his shoulders right now.

  82. That was a good one!

  83. Comforting to know people like you are walking the Earth!

  84. Great song, Marty. Thank you.

  85. Marty: I made the following statement in a post on this topic.

    “In this case, as Marty says, likely 7 figures to go away. If this is true I do want my dough back and I WILL be unfriending Debbie and WAYNE from their non existent page.”

    This was never intended to be directed at you Marty. I did not make that clear. My Bad. Hopefully you know my views sufficiently to understand this but since you posted this I figure my gum flapping may have played a part. I was disappointed with Debbie when I wrote it.

    Despite the wins we had from Debbies actions and supporting her, in my view she folded and likely for the money. She started a fight and quit, early. I have difficulty respecting that. I respect that she did what she did and certainly her actions will continue to have impact but quitting so early and forsaking her supporters….

    Should the Baumgartens refund the fund, certainly keep it for the next venture. We all know there will be another and I will support it.

    Now- about that writhing Miscavige. Interest Piqued.


  86. Michael Fairman


  87. Michael Fairman


  88. Michael Fairman

    +1000 for Oracle

  89. martyrathbun09

    Rest assured – this was the game where everybody won, except for one guy.

  90. Tom Gallagher

    Hey Shorty, ahem, I mean POB. Let’s take a look at what’s on the public record (videoed too) for posterity. Please ‘sir’ don’t forget this went viral.

    Enjoy this with your Jackson flavored Scotch! OMG, this is what “YOUR” millions bought.


  91. That’s ’cause he’s got ONLY ONE to take care of, while others are thinking of their friends, spouses, children, relatives, colleagues, etc.

  92. Been There – LOL. You saw the Bruce Lee movie spoof? … “These men have lost hope. These men are lost. These men are lost, but have not lost hope. These men are not lost, but have no hope.” (etc..) I didn’t donate money … actually, I’m a necropheliac since they buried me alive in a box in Haiti a few lifetimes ago. I joined the Co$ because I was told I could find zombies there (I’m attracted to zombies). I’m kind of sitting on the fence with this exterior / spiritual being / body stuff … but can I get a refund if there’s anything left over? I’d kind of like to buy some auditing …. Carcha.

  93. What Your Donations Buy:

    Like most bullies, Miscavige has no stomach for a fair fight. His preference in dealing with whistleblowers and other “apostates” is to pit the almost limitless resources of the RCS against a lone individual, isolated and traumatized, to utterly ruin their lives. That’s what he had in mind for Debbie, I’m sure.

    Thanks to Marty’s orchestration of support, first for Daniel Montalvo and then a big way for Debbie and Wayne, that game has changed forever. DM’s intended victims are no longer isolated and defenseless, and he will probably never again haul someone into court for just speaking their mind. And behind that, the next time he contemplates amusement by making someone lick the bathroom floor, or stand in a trash can being abused for hours, he may remember that his actions could become broad public knowledge, and think better of it.

    The way I see it, this was a win for Goodness and Truth, and a rout for evil and suppression. As for my relatively small donation, it was one of the best investments I’ve ever made, and if Debbie sends that money back, I’m going to pass it on to Marty to help keep his Defense Fund liquid.

  94. Bitter Defrocked Prostate

    I think there’s nothing more honorable than helping with no expectation of any sort of return. That’s probably why so many of us got duped into things like the IAS and Idle Orgs. The fact that those things turned out to be phony scams is on Miscavige, not any of us. In addition, the light of truth got shown on Miscavige’s high crimes and misdemeanors, if ever so briefly. I’m glad I’m on this side.

  95. Cured Robot Betsy

    ditto, I just LMAO every time I see it, just brilliant!

  96. This is a good bunch of folks here. Inspiring

  97. Plus.

  98. Me too on Michael’s plus.

  99. Hey MOM!!!!

  100. Very Well Done Marty and company,
    I am contributing to your fund and offer further support.
    It takes whatever it takes .
    Been in a few battles, helps to have a good crew to
    John Wayne it when the need arises.
    M&M are Top Guns

  101. For all of you out there feeling the pain of the gross out-tech of the Sec Checking David Miscavige orders done to interfere with those on the Advanced Levels, here’s something for you.

    “Supposing you as an auditor pledged yourself never to pay any attention to the preclear
    but to only pay attentions to the circuits which are criticizing him inside his head, the circuits which were invalidating him every time he said, “You know; I’m a pretty good fellow” and something said to him, “Oh, no you’re not.” And ifyou never paid any attention to “I’m a pretty good fellow;” the fellow says, but only to these other things that were invalidating him and so forth, you would find your career as an auditor perhaps interesting but not very successful. The results on cases would be very poor.”

    “What, for instance, is a guilt complex but a circuit? Well, that is the total goal of psychoanalysis: eradication of a guilt complex.” Tape, 10 Dec 54, Practice of Dianetics and Scientology.

    So, it would seem not only has David Miscavige become a pissyiatrist, he’s one-upped them as he runs IN guilt complexes. Yay Dave, Mr. Psych Plus. That whole resistance thing didn’t work much for ya did it D. Snapped terminals, yessir, ya did.

  102. Something occurred to me: There was a comment by Debbie during the hearings – it was her saying she didn’t realize she had rights until she talked to her lawyer. Humm… What could that mean?

    This is my take on it – Debbie goes to the lawyer about the NDA violation. After Ray reads it and then talks to her, he finds out about the way she as coecerced into signing it. Then he finds out about her time in the hole. That is a clear and obvious criminal act. A major violation of her rights. The question becomes how to get the church to pay, and pay dearly.

    So he sets a trap – in the hearing he has her recount her imprisonment in the hole. The NDA is instantly toast, the church bails from the courtroom. Next they try to mess with him, so he lets the VV and others post some stuff. She does the TV interview. It gets splashed all over the media. They get the message: pay up or this will get dragged into open court and the church will be really embarassed.

    Thus, the Church pays her big time, the injunction is approved by the court. Justice has been done.

    Good for her.


  103. rachelInMemphis

    You express my feelings on the matter perfectly RP. Thank you. I made a donation to Debbie directly, and will not be asking for it to be refunded. Her testimony alone made it worth every penny.

    And David Miscavige: You are are the course of all the torment you are going through right now. YOU.

  104. one of those who see

    Worth watching again. This video is part of public record. Debbie backs up the testimonials of Ex Int Staff who have spoken out. This being out there for the world to see was worth the work and $$ involved.

  105. Ditto, ditto, ditto!!!

  106. largo paris'69

    Thankyou my starry angel your goodness is priceless
    Largo Paris’69

  107. yvonneschick

    Applause. Only correction: where you say “the Church” substitute David Miscavige.

  108. Cured Robot Betsy

    I have to thank Debbie Cook for her NY’s email I forwarded that got Mike & I declared. It propelled us out from under the suppression and the resultant major de-PTSing and life altering wins. I’m just one of the many who gained from what she did, therefore I cannot wish her any ill will. I’m sorry it ended the way it did and I too thought “WTF happened.” We’ll know someday but in the meanwhile many thousands will benefit from what she did but didn’t have to.

    Marty says, “There are ripple effects created by Debbie’s email and court testimony that are being cultivated into waves that will make the first four months of 2012 look like child’s play.” Ok, what came down was major and not child’s play by any means but if what you are saying comes to fruition then we’ll all kneel and thank the God’s.

    Marty says “He (DM) has not quite yet come to grips that he has lead a bunch of immature boys against men.” So true, DM is a pussy that beats on people who are defenseless to fight back using his thugs around him for enforcement to protect his sorry ass. Real men would stand up and say “stop enough”, so yes OSA you other immature idiots that have no powers of observation are screwed!

  109. Robert Earle

    Same here Marty.

  110. “I am impelled not to squeak like a grateful and frightened mouse, but to roar….”

  111. Where’s Mommy?!!!!!

    There she is!

  112. ” So, it would seem not only has David Miscavige become a pissyiatrist, he’s one-upped them as he runs IN guilt complexes. ” JL

    There is much more to come about these “tech” out-points, much more specifics to come. These are tedious times just now, it’s a mine (mind) field. It doesn’t hurt a thing at this point to be wise and deliberate about it all.

    There are many who see, and Miscavige’s day is coming, as he himself might say; make no mistake.

  113. Excellent play-by-play analysis, Mimsey. End result? Somewhere in the California desert, a midget tyrant sits seething in anger at having his O/Ws splashed across the internet, and having been made to PAY for the privilege.

    Oh, and he was also humiliated by being out-snookered at his own game, to boot.

  114. if Debbie sends that money back, I’m going to pass it on to Marty to help keep his Defense Fund liquid.if Debbie sends that money back, I’m going to pass it on to Marty to help keep his Defense Fund liquid.

    Oh, good idea Aeolus! I’m with you on that one (I sent money directly to Debbie too.)

  115. The same old LDW

    We don’t need to cull his pc folders to find “his” crimes, do we?

  116. Bitter Defrocked Apostate

    Probably pouring that scotch in at both ends simultaneously, even as we speak.

  117. “major de-PTSing and life altering wins.” Can’t beat that!! Congratulations.

  118. Awesome. Got me dancing in the streets! Best video ever.

  119. Like it ! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  120. Say what? … Me thinks Debbie won’t be getting any corporate church auditing while Miscavige is at the helm. That would beyond foolish. If she’s smart she’ll hook up with an upstat independent (she probably personally knows many given that she ran the “Mecca” for years.)

  121. Li'll bit of stuff

    Creeeeeek! (…..sound of rusted hinges of coffin lid
    opening…….) you referring to me, fellow zombie ??
    Please take my (very) bony hand and help me up
    outt’a this cramped box, will ya? Pardon the hollow
    eye sockets, get somewhat wasted, after being left
    to turn to dust,so to speak! Any how, now that you
    have communicated, you just reminded me, about
    someone I need to go and visit tonite.Couple of
    earthworms whispered that he is close to joining us.
    His name is Davey. Hope you don’ mind the rags
    I’m wearing! …………Coming??

  122. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yeah…th’ Pope with th’ pure silk noose rope.(no hope!)

  123. Great Post Haydn.
    It isn’t about the money. For me, It isn’t about wanting a refund .
    I can understand her agreeing not to whistle blow anymore, given the blowback and her health issues.
    I cannot understand her agreeing to disconnect entirely and forever with Marty, Mike and the Indies.
    Major Major personal integrity/code of honor violation with those who friended her in her time of need.

  124. Dear Marty,
    Thanks for the exact accounting and all. Regarding our small contribution, we got more than our money’s worth. Besides it was a gift with a purpose.
    If you get any refunds from Debbie (as she promised), please use ours to pay the wonderful and incredible Ray Jeffery a little more money, or re-imburse yourself and Mike something for the expenses you obviously incurred but didn’t mention in the accounting during your stay in San Antonio, or just put it in an Indie defense fund.

    In other words, keep it ‘Til The “End”.

    Definition of “End” = “an outcome worked toward with forethought, deliberate planning, and organized effort; Purpose.” -Websters

  125. my family toooooo,…..

  126. Li'll bit of stuff

    Yesssss! Jim! Nice job with the fault diagnosis! Biggest one
    turned out to be the friggin’ circuit installer hisself!

  127. Li'll bit of stuff

    Cynthia, beautiful flow!
    Heartfelt acknowledgement from me, another fellow Indie!

  128. I think Marty’s cul de sac was ground zero for the future of Scientology. And I think this blog created the theta making it safe for Debbie to speak out on New Year’s day. I also feel the near future has many more turning their backs on Miscavige. I’d like to see Rick Moxon be the next person to call it quits with Miscavige. How about it Rick?

  129. Ah, I’d not thought of that. I still think RPF is best for him but you’re right he couldn’t have a twin. Special circumstances for a special person.

  130. “the next time he contemplates amusement by making someone lick the bathroom floor, or stand in a trash can being abused for hours, he may remember that his actions could become broad public knowledge, and think better of it.”

    THIS ^^^ Suppression has been blunted; very probably lives have been saved. Thanks for pointing out the bigger picture.

  131. Agree with you, Yvonne.

  132. Yes. Professional handling and responsibility there, Marty.

  133. scilonschools

    Very well stated RP, few really appreciate the stress that a full attack can have on an already injured soul, the stand was made,recorded and becomes evidence of the future.
    The energy and concentration of RCS resources allowed other ‘escappees’ and expose of abuses to slip out with less RCS attack at the time.
    I for one feel that the energy Debbie gave to good was far greater than many appreciate and DM never knows where the next mass email, news paper story or lone protestor will come from.his skeletons are rattleing in the cupboard louder than ever before!!

  134. For David,

    Hey Buddy, I am having a great time on this side of the fence. I know you envision yourself as the sole heir to L. Ron Hubbard’s fortune. But hey, me thinks of myself as an heir since I get it, you know, the Scientology?
    I can think with it. I used it and sorted myself out. I’ve got the magic buddy! This is going to last for eternity! It’s under my thumb.

    I’m glad you are happy with what you went for. Property management and slave inheritance. I really never wanted to inherit that or it would be under my thumb. See, there is really no need for all of this because we never really wanted the same things.

    The magic, the love, is traveling with us and the mest is traveling with you. Not really a problem for us. The good times never looked so good!

  135. P.S. David, re: the real estate, just remember the moral of the story of the three little pigs:

    The one that used brick got stuck with the other two stupid pigs.

  136. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    When the Super Power Building doesn’t open at the start of summer, I’m sure that DM will offer a refund to everyone who donated to that project. 🙂

  137. Capt Bob. THANKS FOR THE LINK!!!! This helps me in ways you wouldn’t imagine

  138. Unless his twin was Jenny D.

  139. Dan – very well said. I agree 100%. Your’e lucky if that’s all you drop at FLB in a day. Hell I’d pay that for 2 front row seat and back stages passes to a Stones concert and seeing him get some of his crimes exposed in court has been a 1,000 times more entertaining

  140. Lizabeth, not everyone that leaves the Church of Scientology requires a legal defense fund for themselves afterwards, but some can. If a person went and got auditing at the church and then left would it be sensible if afterwards the person sued the church and “asked for the case they handled in their auditing back”? Most likely not, so I feel the same way as you. What was given to Debbie Cook should be hers to keep. With a lot of ARC. 🙂

  141. Newcomer – I earnestly don’t think it was part of the deal. As livid as I am with her I don’t believe she would have agreed to that. Additionally, if that were the case, my guess is that Marty would have received a subpoena by now for his records as well. Which we all know he would turn over well after hell freezes over.

  142. E.J.- ROFL here on the scotch and copper comment. I’m still laughing as I type this.

  143. Jim – Between your and E.J.s comments I’m laughing like never before. You guys are too funny!!!

  144. Cynthia – Just a reminder, we are fighting the Tyrant – DM. The people I miss most since being out is not the public but the misguided and cowed SO guys and gals both in LA and CW. Some of the finest well meaning people on the planet.

  145. Beenthere – Ditto my friend. FREEDOM to communicate is a wonderful thing!!!

  146. So true Marty. He lost big time! That’s important that we all remember that. Especially considering Mondays twist in the game. The Tyrant – Saddam Hussein’s more evil twin LOST.

  147. Bitter – here, here on the honorable!

  148. Marty – I was more than happy to donate and have not changed my mind. The money , in my opinion, was put to very good use and I am glad you gave me the opportunity to be included.

  149. Betsy – Very good points. After decompressing I realized getting declared was probably the kindest thing they have done FOR (not to) me since my original Div 6 courses in the mid 80s

  150. Oracle – Wow! Just wow! LFBD here when I read your post. Couple of huge cogs too. Thanks for the session 🙂

  151. If you go back and read
    “Lisa McPherson was killed at the Flag Land Base
    “David Miscavige killed Lisa McPherson.”
    in the context of the Debbie Cook settlement, it makes more sense if Debbie actually had the goods on DM. All crimes *except* murder have clocked out via the statute of limitations.

    The mystery in this whole business is why DM ever became involved in Lisa’s case at all. It’s akin to the pope taking an interest in a run of the mill Catholic.

    If Marty and Mike were to think about it, they might *also* figure out why DM took this interest in Lisa–something kept so tight that even Mike didn’t know about it until after he left the Sea org. (Hint, it had to do with her job, not her case.)

  152. In case it was missed, this is worth re-posting and kind of answers my question of the value of this new NDA/injunction. Is it really worth any more than the original NDA which worked out so well for DM?

    Picanin | April 26, 2012 at 12:30 pm | Reply

    Perhaps the gag order is a dramatization of Miscavige’s secrecy computation to which Mike Rinder alluded in his (excellent) article on Steve Halls website “On DM’s behaviour”. I agree with EISM. Why should anything be a secret? And didn’t Debbie quote LRH about not dropping the curtain between the Church and the public on anything?

    What I also notice is that it was the Church of Scientology Flag Service Organization Inc (“a not for profit religious organization incororated in Florida. It conducts its activities primarily in and about Clearwater, Florida.” as stated in the Motion for Summary Judgment) who sued Debbie, but the ‘Agreed Final Judgment” refers to Debbie and the “the Church Parties” which includes CSFSO, CSI, RTC, officers or former officers, parishioners or formers parishioners. In fact it seems “the Church Parties” includes everyone except Miscavige’s dog! I cannot believe that if the case went to trial that a judge could have been able to include “the Church Parties” so broadly! This speaks so loudly to the existence of another confidential agreement (if anyone was in doubt). And I am sure that the plaintiff “CSFSO” did not pay Debbie any money. But RTC, IAS, CSI undoubtedly did and it earned them a place in the “protection” of the injunction. So the injunction may contain the truth – but NOT the WHOLE truth! Blatant BS!

    And the injunction seems to me to be as emasculated as an SP declare is these days. Debbie signed an NDA with a sanction for breach, and they sued her. Now there is an injunction with NO apparent sanction for breach. And what if she breaches? Does someone get to shake a finger at her? Do they revive the litigation? (Oops, that won’t help the CofS! That’s the last thing they want.) Does it amount to a criminal offence to breach an injunction? (Oops – then there will be a trial that cannot be stopped unless the prosecutor says so. Hmmm what to do? what to do?) It’s nothing other than window dressing for the benefit of those on the inside so Miscavige can justify the obscene waste of parishioners’ money (the accounting of which seems to be “non-public information” – just to add salt to the wound!).

    I will bet there is a sanction in the confidential agreement. And if Debbie breaches and the CofS takes action – what happens to the confidentiality of that agreement? Oops – maybe another foot bullet for the CofS.

    If you take the injunction literally it even seems to protect Marty and the rest of us from Debbie ever divulging private information about us all. Hahahaha. Thanks DM! We are “parishioners/ officers/ former parishioners/ former officers.” included in the “Church Parties”. So if anyone wrote/spoke to Debbie, or funded Debbie, surely that is “private information” that she is prohibited from disclosing in terms of the injunction?

    This is not a win for the CofS at any level that I can think of.

    And if it was going to end this way anyway, then better sooner than later. Not another energy particle need be wasted for the small potential additional benefits to be gained. I agree with you Marty when you say legal is the LEAST effective means of changing anything. You scored big in a short space of time – that’s the best that can be got from this cycle.

    Debbie would have been tied to that whipping post were it not for the actions taken by Marty and Mike. It would have looked very different if M&M had not stepped in to turn this debacle into the “Textbook Backfire” that it absolutely is. The exact correct estimation of effort was made. CofS lost money and Miscavige lost face. And WORST of all – Marty and Mike were behind it all. It must gall him.

  153. FCDC Class of 74

    I agree with Cindy we have more to do! There will be more attacks on beings oppressed by the Corporate Crap they are calling their church. That money I sent was for what in your estimation Marty was a need in the indie movement. If someone really needs it than help them out. We do need a war chest or defense fund although I’d prefer we were on the giving end so call it what you like. If you need more I will try again – friend.

  154. Debbie caused really a big blow on RCS, She looks very sick. Totally different than she looked in Flag promo. She must have suffered a lot. Thanks a lot for Marty and Mike andall others Who supported her.

  155. Miscavige, you know, we all leave the body at some point. And our legacy is all we really leave to posterity.
    And when you leave this earth you will take with you the pain and suffering you caused to others. Memories do not go away.

    The harm we do to others then become a form of self punishment. It’s exacting law. We all made and agreed too it.

    Even if you do not think you have done anything wrong it does not in any way excuse you from it’s repercussion.

    This is an appeal to that part of you that knows. I believe you do.

    Dave, within the insular world of your position it’s easy to believe that all this is real. And having people around you in fear of you only serves to validate this lie.

    Dave one day you will be gone, how do want to be remembered?

    I don’t hate you.

  156. Marty, I want no re-imbursement. I think those that feel burned should look at it in this perspective, and see if they still feel burned:
    Imagine that originally you were asked to donate whatever amount you donated for the following, nothing more:
    1) One of the most iconic Sea org members/Scientologists of the past 20 years will send an email to large list of Scientologists detailing the squirreling and perversion of Scientology tech and policy by Miscavige and those acting at his behest, and additionally detailing abusive and potentially illegal treatment by Miscavige of herself and other Sea org members.
    2) This person will additionally testify to the same in open court with media present, and this will back down the Church/Miscavige publicly.
    3) This person will additionally make one major media appearance covering the same information.
    That is all she will do.
    All anyone has to ask themselves is, if I knew in advance that this was exactly what my donation would cover, would I have been happy to make it?
    To me it seems like a good exchange, but others may have varying opinions based on their own ultimate expectations and the amount they donated and their judgment of whether they got value for their money.

  157. TroubleShooter

    Christ Marty, that music choice reached deep inside. It touched a place that I now know still has some intense emotions of feeling alone, stopped, betrayed, stupid, gullible and angry…amazing how the aesthetics can reach. It’s easy to see the gains that were made by the testimony. We would not have seen that day without your actions. As for my feelings about Debbie and Wayne, it feels to me like they signed over their souls to the devil this time which would obviously prevent my embrace of the immediate situation they were in with absence of resources, personal health matters and both mother’s needs clamoring for attention. A rock and a hard place doesn’t seem to do justice for the position they were in.

    I’m here till the end too. Onward and upward.

  158. Just found this one while working on something else. Think it might be of interest.
    “You will find that persons who are having a rough time or giving others one are either just leaving or haven’t arrived on the post. In other words they in some way are not actually ON post.
    It is also an oddity that those who have to go to point B haven’t arrived ever at point A in order to be able to go to point B.
    The ability to BE something strongly shows up in post performances. The real stars can BE anything wholly and completely for short or long periods. They ARE what they are being. They aren’t just arriving or leaving.
    To BE OR Unbe, that is the ability! To not quite be or to WAS is the aberration. L. Ron Hubbard” (HCO PL 8 Sept 1971, Instability, OEC Vol 7, p. 810)

  159. martyrathbun09

    Keith,I think you’d a whole lot happier if you just observed what you observe rather than constructing monster conspiracy theories behind the obvious.

  160. Interesting legal analysis of the injunction over on Village Voice.

  161. Random Stranger

    “It seems over the past three days he has suddenly begun reckoning that in the last four months he has been taken to school, spanked hard, and sent home crying.”

    Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Wow! Testimony really for the first time on video in a court of law that David Miscavige committed and condoned violence and torture??? By the Goddess Debbie Cook, loved by parishioners across the globe? Wow!

    I wonder if the parishioners of the church think along the lines of, “Gee whilliker, that rough old world out there sure can drive a Sea Org member crazy when they leave the church!”

    Marty is an artist. His fabian approach to waving his magic wand over a given situation and having it emanate a certain different refreshing type of vibe, a better vibe, that’s cool. Pristine. Very cool.

    There’s no controlling what other mind-wrecked victims of trauma and blackmail may or may not do.

  162. Karen,
    Is that a fact that she agreed to disconnect from M&M and or the Indies or is it supposed? I understood that she would not discuss issues any further but since she has been declared then how could a legal document pertain to who you associate with? Maybe I am missing something here, I’m not a law professional.
    I agree totally on the integrity issue and if she has an ounce of training she would know that a violation of that magnitude would have health ramifications!

  163. Theo Sismanides

    RS, love your language! Marty is an artist… ! A refreshing vibe in Scientology in the 21st century.

    Nice wording, RS!

  164. thomasjefferson8008

    IMHO those of us who helped made a donation of time and/or money. A donation is a gift with an intended purpose. When you give someone a donation, it is now theirs to use toward that intended purpose. The donation does not guarantee a predictable outcome.

    In this case, the money donated to the “fund” through Marty was used properly, and in my opinion, every penny was well spent and well accounted for. Any of a number of ourcomes could have resulted. Just because the outcome wasn’t what you postulated doesn’t mean you are entitled to a refund.

    Personally, I was happy to help. Legal proceedings are always a gamble. If Debbie & Wayne got a boatload of money, oh well…at least they didn’t get dragged through hell and back and make Davie look good.

    Any reasonably normal person who reads the “agreement” can see that it is the “church” (ie DM) who has something to hide…not Debbie and Wayne.

    This was a BIG win. Sure it could have been bigger…but none-the-less…it was big and we all need to take a win on it :O)

    Again…Just my opinion.

  165. Not asking for my bit back but if it shows up, I will forward it to you. The money was earmarked for this battle and deserves to stay in this battle.


  166. With a sword made from atomic steel in one hand and a crumpled up policy letter clutched in anger in the other, Debbie Cook delivered an effective blow to the femoral artery of the IAS. I for one am not going to snivel that I didn’t get to see more bloodshed at her expense. She has every right to stop playing a game; she has every right to communicate and not communicate to whomever – you know and I know it. She may not ever talk to any of us again but she’ll hear my standing ovation as she walks away. Lisa Tighe

  167. TroubleShooter


  168. one of those who see

    Hi largo!!! Thank you. Glad to see you here!!

  169. Indeed Sinar. Post it up Marty, something like, oh I dono… “Defense Fund”.

    And anyone who gives Marty a hard time over refunds will need to go through me first.

  170. Random thought only because I can:

    Be so happy, so enthusiatic about life that all external darkness crumbles beneath the weight of your joy!

    No matter your external money condition, relation condition etc. realize the power of Self Realization. Knowing Self.

    What joy, what benevolent power.

    Onwards to ever increasing levels of freedom and happiness!!!

    What joy, what beauty!!!

  171. Another Layer

    Absolutely beautiful!

  172. I’d still like to know the full significance of what Debbie Cook meant when she wrote,

    “But I am still an important part of the biggest cover up in Scientologyhistory. And for that, I expect a certain quid pro quo.”

  173. Re “I have it on very good authority that David Miscavige is a seething wreck at the moment.” — who audits COB or flies his ruds?

  174. TO – A mere few thousand years ago mankind had doped out how to use iron. Another few thousand before we got steel. Today, handling recycling I tossed out all kinds of alloys that came with products from all around the world, then checked to see what the semiconductors held in memory. For all the technological advances, mankind still has not doped out how to stop hostilities and, beyond that, how to live ethically – until LRH cracked the reactive mind’s codes, and defined Scientology. Even with that, we still trip, fall, blame, and fight. Amazing. The simple facts are that the technology of the mind and spirit lagged far behind other technologies; it was so difficult to develop! That difficulty which impeded its development is that which we are up against, in trying to Clear abberation. It indicates the difficulty of the problems we face, and each of now does face those problems. The fourth dynamic problem that some would oppose that which would enable them to be free. Gradually, we are making headway towards better ethics, but today what we have in Scientology, is a giant leap forward. It is a VERY big Bridge. The Golden Gate bridge dwindles to insignificance, as regards the quality of thought; the one small step for man of the lunar landing is tiddlewinks by comparison. For the individual, each small step up the Bridge constitutes one giant leap for mankind, and though we recycle alloys that a few hundred years ago were impossible dreams as if nothing, we should not forget where we came from, nor our achievements in the present. All the writers alluded to here had visions and dreams, and the public seizes on these. Today, in Scientology, we are truly going where no man has gone before, and each individual has a chance to be part of it all. The visions of many hundreds of thousands of years are materializing in each session. Scientology should never have been chained to copyrights and trademarks, nor should individuals ever have been led around by rings implanted into their noses. Someone commented correctly that there is a kind of political mind of the populace, that directs. There is more than that: I believe there is basic goodness of man that directs. The ocean looks so placid, so welcoming, we bathe and splash in our native goodness everyday, unconscious of our power. – Carcha.

  175. Dan, I completely agree. DM wastes more than this on a daily basis. The money was well used and thanks Marty for the accounting. I had assumed her defense was closer to the $100,000 range. Good to know that independents are there to protect those in need.

    As for myself, I contributed an affadivit and am placing David Miscavige on notice that I am ready, willing and able to testify against him in any future court action, government investigation or media action in the future.

    No amount of money or harrassment will ever shut me up. I would rather die first. There is a State Motto I think for New Hampshire of Vermont.
    “Live Free or Die”. It doesn’t get more black and white than that!

  176. This is the bucket I found myself in also, and thanks for the suggestion, “mcgins”. Couldn’t really send anything at the time, but now I have sent a donation to Marty.

    Since David Miscavige has about a billion dollars or more largely ripped off from well-meaning Scientologists, it’s only fitting for Marty to have a small “war chest”, even though it might wind up being about 2/100,000 of the size! Of course, a pittance spent with wisdom could definitely prevail.

    Does make me think of the (1st) American Revolution, though, when deep-pockets France (natural enemy of Britain) jumped in on the side of those “Indies”. In France’s own self-interest of course. We don’t want, say, organized psychiatry, jumping in, but could it be possible the Indies have a deep-pocket ally who could emerge? Better to stay with a modest budget than come to depend on one ally, but …

  177. I donated some bucks directly to Debbie, I should have listened to my wife that told me that as the Captain of FSO she got so many overts with enforcing GAT, 3 swings F/Ns, regging etc., that she isn’t clean and I shouldn’t trust her, as she was part of the biggest maker of the RCS.
    Yes, her show in the court room was a big thing and worth the money paid.

    I don’t understand the whole matter. Why did she send that E-mail ?
    Why did she accept the help of Marty in the last minute and then suddenly send him to hell ?
    Why did she again sign a NDA ?
    Why can it be possible that the american justice system gives out such an inhuman injunction ?
    I thought America respects human rights !
    Why did her lawyer that had such a big mouth in the beginning become totally silent ?
    Just questions I’ve. I can’t understand it, neither rationalize it.

    The only thing I see is that the american justice system (the government) isn’t working and not interested in establishing the real truth, but is effect to hordes of lawyers. Neither is the lawyer of Debbie interested in the real truth, also not Debbie. All combined created a Huge enturbulation, that I hope for one day they’ll get the bill for it.

    It has been my experience from the beginning on, as a member of COS in 1974, that many times I just didn’t understand how certain Scientologists were behaving or what they were doing. Sometimes I was effect of those actions. Just couldn’t rationalize it, I always justified it by thinking that they must have their logical reasons for the craziness and I’m to dumb to understand it.

    I’m totally healed from that justification and can confront it as that what it really is; abberation or evilness. It hasn’t to be rationalized but just confronted. Crazy is crazy, evil is evil.

    Honesty and truthfulness is a luxe that not many governments or people can afford.

    The USA has still a long way to go to become honest and really implement Human rights in their constitution and write the protecting laws (300 years ?).

    There is no government on earth that has implemented the universal declaration of human rights in it’s constitution, neither do they have the appropriate laws to protect them.

    Instead of speculating of what happened or what went on my conclusion to the whole matter is:
    ” There is still lots of work to do and I’ll work more harder on being truthfully and honest and will ask the same from my environment.”

    Neither the court or Debbie or her lawyer and neither the RCS will tell the simple truth of what really went on.

    The lesson learned is : clean hands make a happy life.

    Simplicity in itself !

  178. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Off Topic (but on earlier topic) there was something hanging up my attention on that injunction:
    Part 3A orders that Debbie (and concert) are forbidden to engage in:
    “Disclosing any non-public information, data or knowledge they have learned or will learn about the organization including…
    … their priest-penitent privileged communications,….”
    Why would that need to be included in a legal contract? Surely the codes and creeds of the church forbid such activity? Or has there already been some kind of precedent set by the ‘Church’ already regarding this activity. Or is someone just scared of what others might know about them… Davey?….
    By the way (Davey) – could we get my daughter’s PC folders back from OSA please? Just return them to Jeff Avrin (or Carol Kingsley) at Mace Kingsley and tell him he can give it back to either of Paloma’s parents. There’s nothing in a 12 year old’s PC folder that could possibly be of any use to you.
    How was the scotch? Reminds me. I owe Jackson a beer.

  179. OMG I hadn’t seen that…………… LMAO !!!! 🙂

  180. Nice post Carcha 🙂

  181. Nice post Brian. The posterity he leaves his legacy to, is himself. His own future is in his hands.

  182. LDW,

    I guess this one comment really hits home !

  183. nom,
    This is an allusion to the cod piece, now part of standard issue to all males in or around David Miscavige and Jenny Linson’s brand. That’s the “cover up”. The quid for the quo I can guess at, and it would involve lucre, or possibly, a nice 22hp John Deere lawn tractor, with the 70s mesh back ball cap of course.

  184. You should lay off the crullers. Way too much sugar in them.

  185. The same old LDW

    The mystery sandwich is sticking to me like glue. I can’t help but wonder if dave has enough dirt on Debbie to make the quid pro quo a simple matter of we agree to shut up about you as long as you agree to shut up about us.

    In the final analysis, they are implanting each other with “musn’t tell, musn’t reveal, don’t say anything, shut up, keep quite, communication is dangerous…”

    My respect for Marty and Mike is out the roof. I’m gaining a whole new view of just how much you guys have put your necks on the line with what you are doing. Your refusal to take the blood money and shut up under any circumstances is bloody admirable to the nth degree.

    Steve, Jeff, the Hedley’s, Sinar…all of you, my hat’s off in a new unit of time.

    Personally, I applaude Debbie for taking it as far as she did. Whatever the reason for the abrupt end of that cycle, her exposure of the the truth she exposed was a wonderful accomplishment. Personally, I would have donated everything I own to see her testimony in front of a jury in Texas.

    One other thing that has been done is this. David Miscavige has caused to be published in a court document that he absolutely does not in any way agree with or apply the Creed of Church of Scientology. In his own statement ending the Debbie affair, he’s stated that “we of the church believe that all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others,” is crap and he does not believe it or follow it. He is no scientologist, his cult does not follow the creed and his cult is no longer in any way, shape or form a “church of scientology.”

    If the boys at are correct in their analysis of the composition of the “church,” then david miscavige has just neutered himself all the way up to his neck.

    Talk about a bitter apostate.

  186. Your humble servant


    Thanks for that heartfelt statement, although I don’t precisely share your viewpoint! I do agree that there’s still a lot unknown about the whole thing.

  187. No one and do you think he is going to let any one . or if so spill anything to any one that would be to much of a risk.

  188. Marty, Can you post Debbie’s mailing address as her web page is now down as you know. Thank you.

  189. Your humble servant


    “Disclosing any non-public information, data or knowledge they have learned or will learn about the organization including…
    … their priest-penitent privileged communications,….”

    This is actually a nonsensical statement and nobody could truthfully say what it was intended to mean. The “organization” does not have any priest-penitent privileged communications. Those belong solely to the parishioners. So, if it is interpreted as a prohibition against “Disclosing the organization’s priest penitent communications,” that just doesn’t make any sense because the “organization” doesn’t have any, never had any, and never will have any. Besides, It is exclusively the “organization” that has been guilty of disclosing parishioner’s confidential communications and using them against them. So, I guess this is one of those instances of a criminal accusing others of what he himself has been doing.

  190. You’re right. Just watched it again. Bone chilling. I’m going to download it so if it gets taken down for some reason I’ll always have a copy.

  191. That’s a wonderful and heartfelt comm, Brian, but Miscavige is far too low toned to duplicate it. He’s buried under a blackness that does not admit that high quality of light.

  192. Richard Royce

    Dear Cured Robot Betsy,

    I really got what you said about being grateful for getting Declared. I felt the same way. I was trying to keep the comm lines going with my 3 boys so I compromised my integrity and kept my mouth shut as much as I was able to. It was very unsatisfactory to have to be careful about what you said with your own children. Reminded me of what it must have been like in NAZI Germany for parents of NAZI Yourth. Finally when one of them turned us in to the Gestapo (OSA) we got declared and the amount of relief I experienced was overwhelming. I got ME back! I had been enabling my kids just like a wife of an Alcoholic would by walking on eggshells. At least now my kids knew what I stood for and could have no doubt that I did not support the SUPPRESSIVE ORGANIZATION OF SCIENTOLOGY any longer. Yes, I would no longer have them in my life for now but at least I would be an anchor for them when they finally discover where they are (on a dingy out in the middle of an ocean of lies, out Tech, out Ethics and out Admin). The best thing I could do for them was to hold my position in space.
    Tough love is a bitch!

  193. Nice selection of questions Lo. I’ve asked myself similar ones over the past 30 years too. It seems apparent if one expects sanity and honesty from a Govt. or vested interest one is kidding oneself in a make believe game or attempting to alloy the truth. It takes a pretty gutsy being to follow the line in which honesty leads.
    The group known as the CofS was meant to provide a safe space in which to allow the journey towards truth, they do have the tech for it. That door has been closed for some time. The resulting confusion is what we see and are trying to justify and deal with right now. As I see it the gradient scale to truth gets pretty steep & spinny when one gets embroiled in the squabbles of thetans taking sides and insisting on being right. There is a big, big difference between red on white & green on white – that’s appears to have been very much blended and a “new” way to view things such as the handling of Debbie Cook etc has emerged. Her actions require the simple approach of a standard ethics officer (a lost tech ?), is something missing in this whole cycle. What the f..k have courts of law got do with the truth! History will prove this all out, 100 years from now will the only record of this be in Court Records! Yes, the 3rd Dyn must be confronted but at what price, overts at that level sure do have a sting to them. Marty seems to be a good example of operating with sanity at that level.
    The ability to as-is especially as one progresses higher with the tech is a delicate thing. It can get lost so very, very easily. Take away the meat body considerations on what the apparency of what $urvival is and that gives some sort of indication there is something else the tech handles. Sell that off and, well… the abyss awaits.
    Two beings being standard together are a far greater survial source than thousands of agreeable squirrels.

  194. Words of wisdom Carcha!

  195. I have found that to be true. 🙂

  196. Transporter,

    Here her bussiness website with all infos:

  197. E.J. Croughs

    That’s quite a judgement of the girl that kicked the hornets nest and who will go down in history as the girl that trampled the killer bee so hard, it forgot to ever sting again.

  198. Les,
    A ‘mystery’ is a mystery because of no answer. By definition. No answer hangs up the being as he’s flowing to the thing ‘hey, what the hell are you’. There isn’t any ‘you’ in the mystery, so it can’t answer. The continuous flow sticks. Then one ‘snaps’ to the thing as the space collapses. Then one is to some degree the ‘mystery’, with no answer.

    Try Hello and OK on it. See the 9th ACC tape, 9 Dec 54, Communication Formula. See also the process run at the end of the tape.

  199. Random Stranger



    1) The C of S agrees to not slander, lie about or attack any current, former or future parishioner or staff member, unless it wants to.

    2) The C of S agrees to not kick, punch, slap, humiliate, throw to the floor, spit on, make-lick-bathroom nor degrade in any way any parishioner or staff member ever, unless it wants to.

    3) The C of S agrees to cease bending its staff members fingers back, unless it wants to.

    4) The C of S agrees to the following in particular with regard to Debbie Cook and Wayne Baumgarten: (unless it doesn’t want to)

    a) No more looking through Debbie’s trash
    b) No more marching back and forth in front of their house
    c) No more trying to destroy their business
    d) No more harassing their lawyer
    e) No more punishment for speaking up
    f) Plenty of PIs to provide the Baumgartens with security
    g) Some secret dough
    h) John Deere tractor with 70′ mesh baseball cap
    i) Yearly Christmas card from DM
    j) Free Super-Celebrities Gone Wild Confessional Videos from Gold

    5) The C of S agrees to not make any more changes to the definition of an F/N or the basic books, unless it wants to.


  200. I can only try. Somewhere in him is the same truth as in us. Not having the same history as you all with him, gives me a fresh naivety to see his good parts. Like a mother for her criminal son. May the light of goodness overcome him. It’s good to vibrate that from time to time.

  201. Bitter Defrocked Apostate

    So spill already! We want to know!

  202. Here’s something from that 9th ACC tape:
    “Let’s summate it by saying a one-way flow to anything with the idea that it should answer-remember that one-will eventually stick one in or a.rthat thing. And we have the formula of entrapment:
    A one-way flow to any thing, any space, any object would eventually stick or entrap one IN or AS that thing. Now, if this is the case, it sticks up there like a very, very red, sore thumb. But all we have to do is furnish some answers to free somebody entirely. All right?”

  203. Should be “IN or AS that thing”, with emphasis from original.

  204. Also, the 9th ACC is also called The Solution to Entrapment series.

  205. You must be your own best company! 2FF! Too F*%&$#G FUNNY!

  206. Mimsey,
    Seems her original intent was to find a way to correct the outpoints observed in the CO$ by communicating to parishioners with her open letter.

    My observation is that justice has not been done (money paid in exchange for silence is not justice IMHO) and perhaps her viewpoint has changed from the experience and she considers that it may not be possible to correct the existing church so WTF … take the money and run.

    For me justice will be done when the diminutive one has been brought to task. I will help and work to that end until it is accomplished.

  207. That is one of the best vids! I laugh every time I watch it!

  208. I appreciate wanting to put a good face on what happened in order to avoid discouraging those who worked so hard for Cook and against corporate Scientology. However, I think you were more accurate when you wrote your post dated 4-25-12. “It does have evil value in that Miscavige can utilize it internally as a club with which to intimidate people in similar situations that Debbie and Wayne faced in leaving the cult – the Hacienda video-taped agreement signing ceremony. It will have an in terrorem effect upon the clueless. No doubt Miscavige has told those in Int Management and OSA INT who know of the case that this “judgment” is the fact – Debbie received nothing and wound up with a Permanent Injunction against her. And so it will be used to keep those folk in the pen too.” You and Rinder and others who assisted were terriffic in this battle. As thanks she has agreed to remain silent and shun her supporters. Wow just Wow.

  209. Cured Robot Betsy

    My hat’s off to you guys, that took a lot of unbelievable courage. I believe they will come to their senses eventually, it’s inevitable as things are so squirrely/suppressive within that the truth will eventually prevail.

  210. I love that viewpoint, and hello Lisa!

  211. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    “So, I guess this is one of those instances of a criminal accusing others of what he himself has been doing.”
    Ya think? 😉

  212. LO: Thank you!

  213. Globetrotter

    I also donated directly to Debbie. I feel disappointed and betrayed, but unlike theirs, my integrity is not up for sale at any price, so I don’t want it back. I supported them when they needed it, and a “refund” doesn’t make up for “betrayal after trust”. If I could increase my donation to them 10x and get Debbie back (free to speak) instead of my money, I would opt for that.

    But at the same time, I am an “under the radar” independent, so who am I to judge them. Everyone has their side of the story, but thanks to David Miscavige, the world may never find out Debbie’s.

  214. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    This is the one I’m using to deal with someone on the matter.

  215. Tom Gallagher


    By the way, great theme song linked on your post In case anyone missed it, here it is:

    You’re a good man Charlie Brown.

  216. Yep you are right. Found a cartoon of DM receiving guidance on his defense:

  217. Miscavigeisafraidofsam: Thank you!

  218. you’re welcome. And I had a cog today while thinking about it. Nobody was forced to contribute. It was all done by free choice, by self-determinism. Compare that to the IAS events, Ideal Orgs must donate events.

    Yes sir, contributions here on this blog are not enforced havingness.

  219. Please note the completely perverted “definition” given for “non-public information” a bit later: “As used in this judgment “non-public information” means information which has not been authorized to be published or revealed either to general Church of Scientology parishioners, to staff or the general public. ….”
    This leaves only their own propaganda, as it looks to me.

  220. Agreed, but at present, I’m in a state of no sympathy toward that monster.

  221. I had to watch it again tonight, it’s that good !! LOL Just sent it to some friends…


  222. LO

    Some information that may assist you in answering some of your questions:…

    question 1: “Why did she accept the help of Marty in the last minute and then suddenly send him to hell ?”
    Ans: Don’t see any evidence that Debbie “sent Marty to hell” or anywhere else that he did not choose to go.

    Ques 2: “Why can it be possible that the american justice system gives out such an inhuman injunction?”
    Ans: The agreement is not a court generated document. They were apparently simply “filing it” legally.

    Ques 3: “Why did her lawyer that had such a big mouth in the beginning become totally silent ?”
    Legal council is actually working for their client. They are required by law to do so, no matter what their personal opinions are. Ray Jeffreys almost certainly had a lot to say about the inadvisability of signing that document. However he has no power to stop it if his client agrees. Again, his signature does not mean he is agreeing with it, merely that he was there when it was signed.

    Eric S

  223. Freeing Earth because it is a “Now I’m Supposed To” is an oxymoron. Be free and invite others along.

    The Independent Movement is Free Scientology. Scary, but Free People are scary – they are likely to do anything!

  224. As an aside, the definition of “Church Parties” in the agreement is pretty amazing. I am a Church Party, as is Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun, anyone who has ever been a parishioner of the church. So, they are enjoined from hanging out not only with Independents, but church members as well, since Mr. D and the Droids are actively antagonistic to us Church Parties.

    Pretty nuts.

  225. Hi Newcomer, my point is she got justice for being held captive in the hole, for being physically abused etc. Sure she started out trying to put ethices in on DM et al, but when she talked to her lawyer, and that went by the wayside.Her rights were violated by DM’s blatently criminal acts, and her lawyer went into junkyard dog mode and bit Dave in the butt.

    Still, her NYE email was a coup of sorts, and the media exposure of her abuse at DM’s hands IMO was a good product. Despite Nero’s pr agents, Rome wasn’t burned to the ground in a day.


  226. Theo sismanides

    Globetrotter, i get u and basically believe it’s a betrayal like u do.

    However if Debbie was lost, there is so many more to come our way… that we are gonna soon get some big smiles back again!

  227. The Oracle
    Perfectly said and I can’t agree more.

  228. Angela LeMay


    I must admit, I was dismayed after reading that Wayne and Debbie had settled with the Church by once again giving up their rights.

    However, after recalling a series of correspondences and legal filings between the Church’s and Baumgarten’s attorneys (published on the Village Voice blog late February) it occurred to me that possibly Debbie & Wayne didn’t sell out after all.

    Summary of the Village Voice post:

    Two days following Debbie’s riveting testimony in the Bexar County Courtroom, Debbie and Wayne filed a counter suit and sent seven pages of interrogatory questions to be answered by the Church in the discovery process. I thought, “The Church will never truthfully answer”; unfortunately, I was right.

    At any rate, thanks to Debbie and the Village Voice those questions are etched into cyber space for all to see and hopefully think for themselves.

    In an attempt to settle, Ray Jeffrey sent a settlement offer to the Church’s attorney on Feb 20th, whereby Debbie and Wayne offered to pay back the $100,000 they took when they signed the NDA’s in exchange for the Church voiding the 2007 agreements. Shortly after getting word of Debbie’s scheduled ABC Nightline Interview, their settlement offer was rejected and Spencer noted that the Church was moving for summary Judgment.

    The Village Voice documented a series of letters sent by the Church’s attorney, George Spencer to Debbie and Wayne’s attorney, Ray Jeffrey from Feb 25th – 27th, complaining about Debbie’s posting’s on Marty’s site: an “Open Letter to My Friends” and threatening to hold any conspirators, aides or abettors legally responsible:

    “We remind you and the Defendants that our client [Church of Scientology International Flag Service Organization, Inc.] intends to hold Defendants and anyone who conspired with Defendants, or aids and abets them, is [sic] legally responsible for each and every breach including each breach after the filing of this suit.

    We respectfully demand that you advise your clients to cease their breaches in order to avoid further damage.” – George Spencer

    Spencer further demanded of the defendants, “preserve the names of donors and amounts donated” and that Jeffrey disclose, in writing, all of the documents and all of the information disclosed to his office by Mr. Rathbun and Mr.Rinder.

    I realize all of that legal correspondence could have just been an attorney’s pissing match full of idle threats; but, it sounded like anyone involved in the independent movement or in support of Debbie and Wayne were potentially at risk if the court ruled in favor of the Church and ordered them to produce records.

    Despite how much it may look like they just “sold out” or “got worn down” – given the vast amount of money that the Church has available in its “war chest” to fight the battle – I think Debbie and Wayne weren’t willing to take the risk of jeopardizing the anonymity or livelihood of the supporter’s they had pledged to protect.

    In my opinion, Debbie and Wayne won. She stood up; spoke up, was heard and her story will continue to reverberate through out the world. Now, Miscavige is a seething wreck.

    Although I am saddened that Debbie allowed the Church to put her muzzle back on; I’m grateful that her testimony lives on – as does our ability to speak out. Looking at the bigger picture, I think that Debbie’s and Wayne’s actions epitomize the code of honor.


    Thank you for creating and keeping this blog going and thank both you and Mike for tirelessly sticking your necks out to expose the truth. Actually, I want to thank everyone who contributes to independent movement.

    We are winning.


  229. Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    The Oracle: “You are very shortly here going to see someone of major value and importance flipping into the Independent movement. Stay tuned, this is going to get better any minute. This next person coming out is seriously going to kick these matters of the church into fifth gear of this qual evolution.” – WOW! Can´t wait! I´ll be sure to stay tuned!

  230. Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    Marty Rathbun: “There are ripple effects created by Debbie´s email and court testimony that are being cultivated into waves that will make the first four months of 2012 look like child´s play.” – Too much exitement! If the church is about to fall apart maybe Debbie was wise to take the money after all.

  231. Something deeply good about this song.. Thank you, Sam.

  232. Good practice, great flow. Awesome result. Cheapeau Mr. Rathbun.


  233. My pleasure :):) 🙂

  234. Dear Windwalker

    You have such a poetic name 🙂

    Your answers, even I can understand them, but as a simple thetan I just want to know the truth !
    Your answers that are logical, reasonnable and well explained puts one into apathy and that’s it.
    If I accept them my mind is just spinning !!!!!

    In the RCS I have heard thousands of this kind of answers and I just went into appathy as a thetan accepting all kinds of illogics !

    I’m over that now and just diagree with it and don’t buy all those well thought out answers.

    I freed myself from the RCS no more accepting all those explanations, but also I’ll not accept well thought out explanations from lawyers, judges and governments and from whoever !

    I’m dreaming about a world where there is open communication, real justice and the truth present!

    “You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. I hope some day you’ll join us, and the world will live as one.” (Imagine, John Lenon)

    I think also the Indies have to wake up about our world and not buy into the social veneer.


  235. Which one ? 🙂

  236. I would have to have the same view as you Cured Robot Betsy.
    Debbie’s actions were tremedous hopefully.
    What Dm has done to the church and to its parishers. appears to show the Church is only now in the Business of Property money making
    it certaintly has not got its purpose in tact at all. Applying the HCO PL on Keeping Scientology Working is not in .
    These overts catch up on some one in the long run / physically and mentally and sooner rather than later. with such a falsehood image being held there and public being fooled time will tell , and then lets see how he likes a test of his own medcine brutely used by him towards another mentally and spiritual togther with his lies.
    The thought of the truth coming to light at some stage has to be thought postively . If Dm thinks he is on the winning road thats a Large NO. .

  237. My money’s on Debbie, and she can keep it, I intend to send more… ( I don’t count Debbie’s out. Who would say that? )

    You know who’s next ?? Possibly? Tom Cruise.
    Actually, anyone with integrity, can be, could be and should be.

    Watch this uTube vid, and read the “writing on the wall” … Miscarriage should be very very VERY worried at this juncture.
    If he was smart, *roll eyes* lol. He would b gone long before the 4th of July.

    ( How shall we know them, eh?? their fruit? Colours, or product? It’s all the same Tom, the truth will never die. And you need to “figure it out”. Fast.)

  238. Damn honey! Tell us how you really feel!

  239. Agreement with Dizzy mizz Lizzy,
    Debbie and Wayne opened doors that they deserve credit.
    I dont believe in the Hollywood Epic where Evil triumphs over Good
    Mr. Rathbun is True Grit and a real OT.

  240. yvonneschick

    I love the way you put things into perspective.

  241. Yes, Theo
    I agree. But we do not know the whole story.

  242. Angela LeMay


    Though the new NDA/settlement on the surface may appear as a loss and the Church will likely attempt to use it to keep the sheep in the pen – it is suspect in itself.

    I doubt that people will continue to be that stupid.

    I find the TRUTH of Debbie’s intentions in the overall results which occurred from her actions in the last 4 months.

    Debbie’s Actions:
    – Debbie Cook exposed the Church’s abuses despite personal danger through her New Years Eve email, internet postings, testimony under oath, TV Interviews and counter- sued the Church – with a hard hitting seven page interrogatory.
    – Debbie upheld her promise to protect the anonymity of her supporters.
    – Wayne and Debbie settled with the church by once again giving up their right to speak out on the subject.

    – Debbie’s email stirred up the hornet’s nest, prompting foot nuke after foot nuke by the Church.
    – Her testimony given under oath was widely made public through articles and video coverage. – Media around the world picked up her story; publishing articles and televised interviews which documented and detailed the abuses.
    – Parishioners were reached and were inspired to also speak out and IMO it is too soon to see the magnitude of the overall affect created.
    – Documented evidence of the Church’s Non-disclosure documents,
    requiring one to give up their god given rights – if they want to stay in the fold – is now public domain.
    – Debbie and Wayne have lost their rights to further speak out.

    Me thinks that the good resulting from Debbie and Wayne’s actions far out weigh the bad.


    You’re NOT the only one…I’m a dreamer too!


  243. Angela LeMay

    “Instead of speculating of what happened or what went on my conclusion to the whole matter is:
    ” There is still lots of work to do and I’ll work more harder on being truthfully and honest and will ask the same from my environment.”

    LO, I agree there is still allot of work to do; but, I think that Debbie and Wayne sure made a huge dent into the task of getting parishioners to wake up.


  244. I understand Ronnie. What you all have been through, yeeiiiks!

  245. miscavigeisscaredofsam

    Ditto. Even if I ‘should’ I don’t.
    I have never before met a man who has no redeeming qualities. Miscavige is the first and his eradication from the human race would bring benefit to all and harm to none.

  246. thinkforyourself2009

    Dizzy Mizz Lizzy – Looking forward to finding out who the next player is..although we have our suspicions..we’ll just have to wait and see 🙂

  247. LO

    I can see that I had only given you my viewpoint on a few of the simpler questions but have failed to address the larger issue.

    Regarding the larger issue, Yes, I must say there is definitely a lot of “growing up” to do on the third and forth dynamics. “The whole truth, and nothing but the truth” is pretty much non existent in any sector.

    But, though the road is long, and sometimes the going rough, I think progress is being made. By bringing individual beings gradiently closer to truth, we should eventually approximate the world that you envision.

    I too am a dreamer…

    Eric S

  248. Kicked the hornet’s nest and then (& in the famous words of Monty Python) run away, run away, run away. Getting the hornets stirred up to sting others who are still around doesn’t get you points in my book.

  249. I really like where you are coming from LO. Not the easiest concept to get into text what you are trying to say – i.e. what true Scientology has to offer.
    There’s an inbuilt mechanism in this MEST universe that makes its occupants protect themselves from everyone else in it. The degrees and variations to that are endless. But postulates and live communication not being part of this universe sure give a way of handling it and your use of those tools is like a breath of fresh air.
    Even the tigers have a hard time here but keep it simple, keep it standard and a path out materialises.
    I really like it when someone turns down the volume on demanding/dramatizing solutions to unsolvable situations and communicates instead. Ahh… ARC what a tool!

  250. Tom looks to be in great form. You did a great job getting him up the bridge Marty!

  251. I think I am going to combine David and Jenny as a unit and just refer to it as David Linson.

  252. Random Stranger


    1) She shall be confined for five hours per day to a trash can, fed left-over uneaten RPF slop and must hold a sign that says, “I’m nothing”, while David Miscavige’s laundry water is poured over her head during the face-slapping and finger-bending Sea Org new recruit training sessions.

    2) Must have her tongue removed, vocal cords severed, fingers cut off, eyes gouged out and is to have a squirrel branded on her forehead.

    3) Must dye her hair the color of the day, according to the whims and dictates of COB at any given time.

    4) Must lick each and every one of DM’s and TC’s motorcycles, twice.

    5) Must perform as the ‘recalcitrant executive’ in a training video for new recruits on how to properly bend fingers and slap faces.

    6) Must change her name to DB Cook.

    7) Must disconnect from everything, twice.

    8) Must eat 50 eggs, twice.

    9) Must confess to the following:

    a) The Pearl Harbor invasion
    b) Sinking of the Titanic
    c) Mishandling Charles Manson
    d) Wasting all the church’s money, twice
    e) Kidnapping of the Lindberg Baby
    f) Destroying L. Ron Hubbard
    g) Attempted assassination of COB
    h) Shoplifting
    i) Bank robbery
    j) Murder
    k) Twin Towers attacks
    l) Jim Jones atrocities
    m) Failing to salute COB
    n) Looking at Tom Cruise
    o) Spearheading the JFK assassination
    p) Lying about COB
    q) Polluting China
    r) The Snow White caper
    s) Iran’s nuclear program
    t) Bad music on the radio
    u) Global warming
    v) The Wall Street melt-down
    w) A typo in one of the new Basic Books
    x) Arthur Hubbard’s disinterest
    y) Malcolm X’s death
    z) Tom Cruise flipping out

    10) Must slap, kick and punch herself, bend her own fingers back to the point of demonstrable and significant pain, throw herself violently to the ground and choke herself daily, with video compliance reports to COB.

  253. MI III came out in 2006 and this was while it was I/P. This is not recent.

  254. E.J. Croughs

    Let me spell it out.
    This cycle has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt to all the radar flyers and other PTSers that no matter how much Davey wants to, he can’t ever enforce his toilet paper NDA’s. He can’t sue anyone with knowledge of his crimes. He has proven himself completely powerless, no matter how much lawyers and $$$$ he throws at it. He lost his legal angel. Debbie has reached and gotten more people aware and out in shorter time than anyone else and this is just the beginning.

    As to her integrity, what does signing a non enforceable, self contradicting, not binding, no remedy seeking legalized piece of toilet paper mean? Anyone could sign that, especially if it seems to void a former piece of toilet paper seeking tons of penalties. For free bonus, it results in Davey turning into a seething wreck, forcing even more people to wake up and see the light, leaving even less to be stung. Davey is our very best disseminator and it doesn’t hurt to prod him once in a while (every day would be good).

    Face it, Debbie’s doing the best job thus far while not even having started yet. Did I already say it.. she’s pretty smart and if it wasn’t her idea, it could have been Sugar Ray. Stay tuned and tell our popcorn IC to prepare for her stats to go straight up and vertical.

  255. Angela LeMay


  256. Would COB do all that to the Debbie Cook man animal ?

  257. 2nd that! 🙂

  258. Ahahahah Jim,
    Good one!

  259. None of this smacks as legal. I want to
    know everything that being covered up.
    Either by boatloads of money behind closed doors or
    having an Everest of dirt for Blackmail,doesnt matter,an Injuction
    would be concealling criminal acts.
    Torture is still Torture especially if you cannot talk about it
    because a court orders so. Nazi Germany had this in the 1930’s
    and it didnt work out so well for the German People.

  260. It reminds one of the 3 apes: 1) I hear nothing 2) I see nothing 3) I won’t say nothin’. doesn’t it?

  261. Marty,
    Keep what I sent for the future when it is needed to defend a REAL Indie, inside and out.
    Can’t say I understand what took place and I’m not going to waste my time trying. In future when the puzzle pieces arrive it will be good enough.
    No mystery glue here….

  262. There is simplicity, albeit definitive, no q&a. Gotta love it. Reminds me of family from the old south.

  263. tho this was 2004 during ‘Collateral’ promo … its Letterman who was ahead of himself (ahead of “his time”) Why at that time was he busting Tom’s balls… ??* I think Letterman understood perfectly, even at that time, what we get perfectly today, and what Tom has yet to understand: HIS FRIEND DAVE IS AN ASSHOLE. How simple is that?
    Letterman~ “Maybe we can hang together: it will be like ‘Dave and Tom!’??”


    All the way thru this is telling, somewhere around the 3:20 mark (rehearsals comes around again) Tom acks Letterman on what Letterman refereed his character in the film Collateral was: ‘Satan; in an expensive suit’. Well! That’s Miscavige alright! SATAN IN AN EXPENSIVE SUIT.
    We can agree, debate, all day it’s not what it seems. But what is it?
    It’s predictable. And postulated. We know the future, because we are truly OT.
    Dave is dead as all lies are dead. He is a farse, a lesson learned. With no future but that which God makes, does God have a say in this? Well if Survival has anything to do with it, Miscavige will never make it to Heaven.
    (Sorry about the rant)
    (Oh ya, Hey, if there is such a thing, and I get there and you too, so we are in Heaven now… then, then by golly its made up of us! And David Miscavige: You are out!! Fuck off and die! “Oh, hey Tom… You schmuck. Grace. … Letterman and many others like you.) lol

  264. Gern Gaschoen

    I think you should know by now that what you have observed with ‘kinds of people who take over in Scientology’, LRH did as well .. during the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s.. as he built the OEC/FEBC course to confront it.

    There is no question that cleared-cannibals are eating up the core politic of the Scientology body. LRH advised, time and again, that if you make a cannibal clear you better take responsibility for one thing, and one thing only: getting that cat in the Auditing chair, wearing the Auditor hat.

    Thats not really been happening, and now we’re really seeing why its so important. Too many Clears and OT’s of the 70’s and 80’s, and even before that, never once put the damn cans in the PC’s hands and uttered the words “This is the session..” – instead, choosing to create their lives through the means of affluences gained from means more traditionally aligned with middle-class society’s purposes: finance, investment, insurance, medicine, etc.

    If every single person who ever wrote on the page, “I am OT __” also included “, Auditor, Class VI” we would have much, much better things to talk about than whether DM is suppressing us all. We’d have actual, realy, delivery.

    And in the end, if we want Scientology to survive, we have to deliver. End of question.

  265. Let’s not get too hung up on the outcome of the Debbie Cook case. It was to be expected. DM was never going to let Debbie blab on. Through sheer stupidity, he allowed her to speak out and then he had to exert damage control. As I said in a previous post, by suing Debbie, the sorry sod initiated a butterfly effect that he will never be able to stop. So let’s take a win and move on.

    I just received Issue 53 of “International Scientology News”, all gloss and no content, 110 pages (!) of drivel and sickening “PR”. Must cost a fortune to send these things out. This issue is about the birthday game event and pushes DM’s latest scam, the LRH “biography” encyclopedia. Of course, it’s also about “unprecedented global expansion”, useless unverifiable “statistics” and how brilliant our great leader is. But besides being an exercise in self-glorification, it also gives a few interesting facts that anyone who isn’t looking will probably miss.

    “Every Six Minutes of Every Day Someone on the Planet Starts a Basics Course.” (Page 104)

    Sounds pretty impressive, huh? Well, let’s do the math (assuming the figure is true). One person every 6 minutes, that’s 10 people per hour, or 240 per day. We multiply this by 365 days and we get 87,600. Now most people study several basic books. Let’s say they study an average of 4 basic books per year. We divide 87,600 by 4 and we get approximatively 22,000.

    Where are the millions of Scientologists?

    And does this include bodies in the shop (in the course rooms) AND extension courses? It doesn’t say.

    Page 108, we learn that every 20 minutes, a scientologist somewhere begins an extension course and another completes one. So, that’s 3 starts and 3 comps an hour. (Is the person completing a course immediately starting a new course? It doesn’t say.) So, that’s 72 starts and comps per 24-hour day. We multiply this by 365 and get 26,200 starts and comps per year. Again, assuming that a person will do an average of 4 books a year, we get 6550 (who are probably included in the 22,000 above anyway.)

    Where are the millions of Scientologists?

    Let’s take a look at Flag’s stats page 100.

    “35 Clears in one month – highest ever including 6 Clears in a single day.”

    Now, were the 35 Clears in one month an exception (an affluence)? It doesn’t say. What is Flag’s average monthly stat of Clears? Let’s say (generously) that they make 25 Clears each month. That’s 300 Clears in one year. Is that what they call EXPANSION? Aren’t we supposed to have 10,000 people on Solo NOTs ASAP? Even if the combined AOs produce they same number as Flag, let’s say another 300 Clears, that’s 600 Clears produced across the planet every year. That’s a ridiculous number. It’ll take at least 10 to 15 years to have 10,000 people on Solo NOTs. That is, if the Clears produced aren’t de-cleared later on in the middle of their OT levels.

    Is that what they call expansion?

    The fact that DM and his minions are actually publishing these numbers just goes to show how stupid and arrogant they are. Not only are they digging their own graves, they’re handing us the shovels. Idiots.

  266. LMAO It’s because they don’t have anymore people on board that can think and say “Mr.” Miscaviage at the same time. :)))))))

  267. >Thetabop – LMAO It’s because they don’t have anymore people on board that can think and say “Mr.” Miscaviage at the same time. I enjoyed your post. Thanks 😀

  268. This is what I’m thinking too. Stay tuned. The best may yet have come.

  269. Thank you for reposting this! I hadn’t seen it. Awesome truth!

  270. Me too!

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