Francesco Minelli and Luana Barbaglio

 Translation of the latest from Gary Baldi at L’Indipendologo

The legend tells that in the night of December Twelve around Bergamo and Brescia, along with a donkey full of presents, a saint woman by the name of Santa Lucia, will bring gifts to all kids that anxiously await her arrival. At times you could hear a bell ring, the donkey has one by his neck, which calls all kids to hiding, for no one can look at Santa Lucia, otherwise she’ll throw some magical dust that will blind all kids…Well, Luana and Francesco have been really naughty, for as soon as the local OSA I/C from Brescia told them to be aware of the nasty things Indys were writing on blogs, they started gathering all of the data for themselves.

These are very special people, because in NO time they have absorbed all that was needed to be absorbed, and have decided at once to leave the Church! This is some real speed of particle flow…they really must have some Power! We’ve been observing “second generation” Scientologists which hold within themselves amazing attributes. A great welcome to Luana and Francesco!

Luana Barbaglio and Francesco Minelli

Dear friends, after nearly 36 years in Scientology as a Scientologist, and in order to Keep Scientology Working, I, Francesco Minelli, together with my wife Luana Barbaglio, have decided to withdraw our allegiance to the current Church of Scientology.

I was born in Scientology and grew up amongst Italian pioneers. I’ve lived through the closings of all Orgs in Italy, LRH’s death, the release of OTVIII, and I’ve lived the humongous quantity of Theta and OTs that Brescia, the Sea Org, and Flag once had…and I’ve slowly watched this Elan Vital vanish from all of my universes.

Where have all the OTs from Brescia gone? Left the scene, disaffected, become VIPs and only on CC lines, Flag and the Ship…Some hit by strokes, and some even dead. This was mysteriously hidden to all of us and to all my questions, there was just a bunch of Q&A for a no-answer.

This was not making sense, I was reading one thing and seeing another.

I have to thank the Office of Special Affairs of Brescia ORG, especially Lorenzo Cordini, for telling me not to think about the pink elephant. Because of my inherent character (being born a rebel), from that moment on I researched the history of Scientology. I’ve gained data, seen the actual conditions of 5 different Idle Orgs in Europe, and compared policies of LRH with the current scene.

It was a long research and needed a lot of confront. I was alone at first, and then with the risk of losing my family, I showed all evidences to my wife Luana who came to her own conclusions.

Our friends are free Scientologists, that can completely apply while showing their face, the Creed of the Church of Scientology. They don’t play with their own integrity by being the subjects of the threats that someone will take their Bridge away just because they LOOKED on the Internet.  What we are living inside the current Church is not freedom, it is the complete opposite!

Truth gets completely inverted in the name of convenience.

You just need to search on YouTube for “LRH Interview” only to find that on the cover of that DVD “An Introduction to Scientology”…when they say “the only LRH filmed interview” that there is a LIE! And this is NOTHING compared to what me and Luana had to confront.

Luis Garcia’s letter was actually the perfect example of what we wanted to write, it was perfect in every part, and written from a real dedicated Scientologist. It contained points that are evident, crystal clear and undisputable.

It is not our intention right here to handle you on coming out or not from the Church. It is only up to you to freely inform yourself on the things that prompted us to leave the current Church of Scientology, or you can restrain yourself, or even worst, have someone else restraining you.

This is the Price of Freedom.

And now, dear administration of the Church of Scientology, you can go ahead and post your little yellow papers on Public Notice Boards…but please, DO IT!!! Respect the policy…

Before we leave you, we’d like to inform the current administration of the Church of Scientology, that as far as we are concern, we’ll be waiting for one of your representatives which will have to provide us with:

1. All of our money given to the Brescia Idle Org (including interests)

2. All of our money given to the IAS

3. All of the money still on our accounts at Brescia Org, AOSHEU, FSO, FSSO. Including all materials, with their equivalent value in money that have been purchased at Flag but never delivered to us nor our selectees.

4. All of our PC, Pre-OT and Ethics Folders, wherever they might be, sealed and intact.

5. Our little Yellow Papers.

In the event that this will not take place in the shortest time possible, we will have to resort to some other way, and we Italians have a history on knowing plenty, which means (using Scientology Terminology), Raising the Gradient.

My wife and myself will always continue supporting LRH and his spiritual legacy. We are leaving the Church since its current management uses Reverse Scientology on people, and we do not want to be an accomplice to any of this, having become aware of its continual and repeated crimes against humanity.

This is not freedom.

Look, don’t listen.


147 responses to “Francesco Minelli and Luana Barbaglio

  1. Beautiful words from beautiful people.

    You just made a course correction to your journey. In time, may the winds fill your sails with the spirit of independence. I firmly believe that such independence coupled with LRH tech is formidable – and will give you the tools to never falter or go off course.

    The gains from throwing off the baggage of a perverted tech are quite palpable. I hope you enjoy it.


  2. What a wonderful way to end my might. Welcome, Francesco and Luana. Reading this, I could feel the enthusiasm that seems to be the hallmark of every Italian Scientologist. When that crazy Israeli, Amir Gueron (RIP), veteran of the Six Day War, worked in RTRC he would regale me with stories of the early days of Scientology in Italy. Thanks for bringing back some wonderful memories.

  3. Beautifully written!

    Well done you and enjoy your independence!

    I would be interested to hear about the Ideal Orgs in Italy …

    Do well!!

  4. Wonderful welcome to both of you, Francesco and Luanna. Wow, your bright smiling faces show how happy you are! The countenance of Freedom! Italy, a most beautiful country, just got bigger, better and brighter. Here’s wishing you every happiness in your new adventure of applying the real Scientology philosophy to your wonderful part of the world!
    Much love to both of you,
    Lady Min

  5. Please excuse my mispelling of your name, Luana. Was very excited about your announcement and typing too fast.

  6. Tony DePhillips

    Welcome to the greatest group on Earth!!
    Francesco and Luana I am so happy that you have made your stand!!
    I have always loved the Italian spirit and I bet you get your money and your other demands met quickly, at least if they are smart. (?)
    I hope to meet you both sometime and look forward to hearing more of your war stories here.
    Much Love,

  7. Oh so good Luana and Francesco. Welcome to free Scientology!

  8. You are such beautiful people! Welcome to freedom!

    By leaving the church you may enjoy a spiritual awakening that will rehabilitate all of the wins you had when you first found Scientology.

    In addition to that, you are launched on a truly incredible voyage of discovery as you will find an endless supply of information about the true history of the church and LRH.

    Bon voyage!

    David St Lawrence

  9. Francesco and Luana,

    Congratulations and welcome! Your communication was dynamic and moving.

    I was “onlines” for over 40 years so I have some reality about the realizations you may had in your recent past, in discovering the truth about the current Church of Scientology, alterations of the tech and the many suppressive activities of the Savage Misgavige and company! It is not a pretty picture. I’m sure your post will influence many.

    Many years ago when I was at Flag getting my L11, I met numerous very high toned Scientologists from Italy and was truly engaged. Italian people have such style, passion and elan vital! From my corner of the universe, well done and you have my postulate for an excellent future, where you can both truly flourish and prosper!

  10. “We are leaving the Church since its current management uses Reverse Scientology on people, and we do not want to be an accomplice to any of this, having become aware of its continual and repeated crimes against humanity.”

    What level are they on?

    What other group do we know of that been committing crimes against humanity?

  11. Joe,

    Yep, Amir was a character! His OT briefings while on tour in the northwest were the best!

    Francesco and Luana,
    Welcome to freedom!
    Thank you both for stepping up and speaking out!

  12. Theo Sismanides

    Francesco and Luana, many thanks and a VWD for looking into the Internet for yourselves. The Internet is just a Data Base, some of which are true and many false. However, a lot of data especially in this blog which I have followed for more than a year, I can tell you is correct. The people here are not afraid of their own neck. They want Scientology to be Free as LRH intended.

    You are now part of this team of free men and women. The Free Beings who have enough guts to not succumb to DM’s dictatorship.

    This is not a little responsibility for any of us now, in an era where dispersal is rampant. We should gather our forces as much as we can. I live next to you in Greece. I consider Italy our brother, more awake these days than us, more curious, more alert for some reasons. However, since I am not just a body and a national of some country but I see all of the dynamics from a theta aspect, I consider that we can help each other. We even had an Italian auditor come and help some people here. I don’t hide it, I am jealous when I see another Italian come to the light and us Greeks here asleep…. (LOL!!) But as I said the dynamics are the dynamics and nationality doesn’t mean so much. So let’s make the Mediterranean a Scientology safe place.

    Gracie tanti amici et auguri dalla Grecia. Spero che l’ Italia et la Grecia insieme potremo fare molte cose. Siamo fratelli et possiamo fare tante cose.

  13. Great choice! I’ll be honored to service you! ML Ignazio.

  14. Gary Morehead a.k.a Jackson

    Francesco & Luna,

    My new found friends! Thank you… Thank you!

    As we say on this side of the pond…. Booooo Yaaaa!

    L, Jackson

  15. Tory Christman

    Francesco and Luana: You both are wonderful! Congratulations on your decision and thank you
    for speaking out, also! I love Italians!!!!
    ((Once in the 80’s I was on an Internship at Flag (sec check) and half the class were Italians. One day we were all ordered to “Write 10 letters each”. They were mostly kids, who had no addresses. So I put my son’s name and address on the board, and told them to just write to him in Italian! He was a young boy and loved getting all these cool letters!))

    Yes, yes! Get your $$$$ back, absolutely.

    And since I’ve been hearing from people reading here, and concerned about leaving, here is my Christmas Video to anyone worried about leaving, especially young people…..I hope you all enjoy it. Note: When
    ever I say “Scientology” on YT, I mean the “Church” of $cientology, and their moronic, abusive organization.
    It’s my Christmas Video 🙂

    Love to ALL and Happy Holidays!~

  16. I’m speechless !
    Viva l’Italia !!!!!!!!!
    You are definitely Rebels !
    Well done !!!!

  17. Viva Italia!

    “…I’ll join the movement, if there is one I could believe in….”

  18. Franceco and Luano Welcome and The story was warming and I agree moving Congratulations to you !!
    I spent myself a lot of time in Italy whilst being staff at AOSHDK
    You must have known The Tours and Flag representatives that entered Italy. Having been in Italy a lot and Brescia Org and on staff for 12 years at AOSHDK .I wish you the very best . I would love to get in touch .

  19. Wonderfully communication from wonderful and strong people (sort of copied it from Centurion above as I felt the same).

    I believe your public disconnection from a suppressive management already contains a “first” in that it sets a “shortest possible” deadline to complete a few cycles of action that should be felt by the C of M as the first in a series of “Italian” Ethics Gradients. 🙂

    Congratulation you wonderful people!

    PS: Why is it that all Italians seem to look like natural models?
    Is a compliment to a very nice couple 🙂

  20. Francesco and Luana,
    It is one thing to recognise what is occurring in the church and perhaps walk away quietly. It is quite another to take responsibility for the rest of the group by speaking out. BRAVO!
    “Personal integrity is knowing what you know –
    What you know is what you know –
    And to have the courage to know and say what you have observed.
    And that is integrity” – L Ron Hubbard
    Welcome to Real Scientology 😀

    Well done on the latest footbullet – continue 🙂

  22. Francesco and Luana,
    Well done! Whenever I was at Flag the Italians were always among my favorites—full of life and a joy to be around.

    When I was younger I used to work on ranches that were tens of thousands of acres and twice a year (fall & spring) we had to gather all the cattle up. We’d drive them into a gathering pen—a fenced in area of about five or ten acres where you would sort out the calves so they could be branded, vaccinated, castrated etc.
    When done we’d let the herd “settle” for a day or so, letting mother cows hook up with their babies etc.. It was at this point that the owner would want to get a head count.
    Now how do you get a count of a few hundred head that are restlessly mulling around, wanting to leave the confinement?
    The owner would be on his horse (good visual altitude) and back away from the gate by 50 feet or so. Ever so gently (required someone on both sides of the gate) and consistently the cattle would be pushed through the open gate where the owner could count heads as the cattle went through. In this manner he could get a count without wondering if some were counted twice and the restricted randomity of the gate made the task doable.

    David Miscavige—Now that you’ve thoroughly emasculated the public, staff and the body of knowledge, if you ever wanted a truthful count of the number of people you might have once claimed as parishioners, the only accurate count you’re ever going to get is right now—while they’re going out the gate and as far away from you as possible.
    And guess what? The gate is W-I-D-E open!

  23. God bless Amir, a real gem.

  24. Congratulations! The reason Italy expanded so much in the late Seventies was that the Italian people can transfer information very rapidly with a lot of sympatico. While the French speak with the heart, Spaniards speak with the solar plexus (muy importante), Germans speak with the throat, Italians speak with their hands and “chi” or life energy runs through the hands very efficiently. Perhaps your words will spread like wild fire. By the way, St. Lucia sounds to me like an adaptation of an old Strega (Italian witchcraft for those who are not familiar) legend.

  25. Joe,
    I did the RPF with Amir. I love that guy!

    He regaled me once with a story of the magic of the Suppressed Person Rundown. It was one of the coolest things I’d ever heard. He’s one of the coolest thetans I’ve ever met.

    I’m sure he’s ‘resting’ but not quietly – too much free life in that being to sit around.

  26. Francesco and Luana, welcome to the bright side of the road! And thank you for taking your stand with this terrific public statement. The walls of secrecy and lies are crumbling to dust with each person who wakes up and sees the deceit. I just have to second what Jackson said, Boooo Yaaaa!

  27. Some parts of that history being truer than others. Thank Scn for the rehab of the ability to differentiate. Thank you Ron for the fundamentals that lead to real spirititual freedom.

  28. Thank you Tory for differentiating the ‘Church of Scientology’ for ‘Scientology’.

    LRH does clearly in his Estate Planning as expressed in the Bylaws of CST:
    “f. “Religion of Scientology” and “Church of Scientology” shall not necessarily be co-terminal. That is to say, the terms “religion of Scientology” and “Church of Scientology” shall be co-terminal only so long as churches of Scientology continue, in the opinion of L. Ron Hubbard during his lifetime, and in the opinion of all of the Directors and Trustees following the death of L. Ron Hubbard, to espouse, propagate and practice the religion of Scientology.”

  29. The only word I know in Italian is ‘ciao’ – so, CIAO!!!

    A whole new part of the adventure begins. Welcome and thank you for you elan 🙂

  30. Pingback: “The worse off a group is, which is to say the less communication they have… « SILVIA KUSADA's Blog

  31. Re “2. All of our money given to the IAS”. Please let me know how this goes as I want my money back too, but we all signed those slips that stated that the donations we we’re making were non-refundable. I’m curious how to get around this legally.

  32. Luana and Francesco

    A heart felt congradulations and welcome at the same time. You are real Scientologist’s. You have regained the ability to see, to duplicate and to make your own decisions.

    Your journey continues. The wins you had from true LRH tech are still there. More wins are to be had. Every step you make on your own determinism is the expansion of your life, your dreams and your postulates.

    You have shown how large and encompassing your dreams are. You have also demonstrated the height and depth of your personal integrity.

    We all are searching for answers. Not all have the willingness to hold all of the answers during the storm. I think of the song “I Will Find You” by Clannad. You can think of this song as meaning to seek and find the truth. The real road to truth is what we are all on. Enjoy! Pronto! Pronto!
    Sapere Aude

  33. Jim, what a gem you found there!

  34. Ha ha! Good advice.

  35. In early 1969, LRH put out his Ron’s Journal for 1968. His personal message to Scientologists worldwide. Among other things, he apologizes to the Class VIII’s from the original VIII course that year, for any inval of them and their application of the tech. He also refers to the Reform Code and the cancellation of disconnection, fair game and the keeping of lists of overts.

    He also states the following:

    “But, I’m not mad at anybody.
    “Now, we have an ethics system and actually I’m not very happy with pushing my friends around. There are too many bad hats in the world and forgive me, forgive me if anyone has been pushed around too hard or has had his own rights violated.
    “Now the real thing we have to guard against is becoming ourselves intolerant of the freedom of others to believe.
    “We do have a parallel in the early Christians, and the early Christians had a difficult time because they spoke of human rights, love, spiritual freedom, just as we do and we in Scientology are speaking of the same things but in more modern language and with more positive results as far as cases are concerned.
    The early Christian was banned and harassed by a whole empire yet he won. And the resistance and challenge strengthened him and made him refine his creed and conduct. The same thing is happening to us.”

    “What I’m trying to say is that the Christian failed the test with his later Inquisition and to some degree failed to bring his message truthfully to civilization all the way through, so that people could talk about love thy neighbor and pick up a rifle and shoot him.
    “Our greater appeal to mankind whatever he knows of us is that we stand for truth and freedom. And mankind at this stage where he has heard of us knows only that we stand for greater spiritual freedom and greater human rights.
    He dimly senses we are the foes of inhumanity and brutality. And actually that would be good enough for him to join us with a whole heart.
    “And so every Scientologist should enlarge on this message. We must CEASE to individuate, we must carry our message broadly to the world.
    “Indeed we must prepare our own way with an emphasis on greater human rights.
    “And in doing that we musn’t start ourselves witch-hunting and raising the devil with our friends. And it sometimes hurts me when I think of people being upset or knocked about. Just because it’s happening to us is no reason we should do it to others, ever.”

  36. Cowboy Poet — What a beautifully written analogy! Thank you … H

  37. Welcome Luana and Francesco! We embrace you. H

  38. Francesco and Luana,

    Your announcement of Independence has made me very happy! It is a very good indicator of security and future expansion for the Independents and for Scientology.

    My first reality of Italian Scientologists occurred in 1990 while I was on the ship. I got the real mass on the top of the tone scale (88008) watching the Italians. Actually, it was anything but mass! I had never encountered so much enthusiasm, games and affinity before. It truly was elan vital…theta uninhibited. Being surrounded by all theat energy, I finally understood who I REALLY was and it completely changed my viewpoint about life, permanently!

    Before coming to these blogs, I was unaware of what happened to Scientology in Italy. So, when I did find out, I was shocked and saddened over the destruction of the most theta and flourishing area of Scientologists.

    Francesco, I am so glad that you are a REBEL because we need a few more of them standing up to the great pretender. I couldn’t help but laugh over the confusion that must be occurring in OSA, like dogs chasing after their tails. If you tell Scientologists not to LOOK, they WILL LOOK. If you don’t say anything, hoping they won’t notice the orgs are empty. the public crushed and broke…THEY STILL LOOK! HA HA!

    I have always felt a special connection to the Italians. So, any Italian out there just needs to remember what it was like having the wins of LRH’s Scientology. You are an incredible group, very theta, very alive who has been under a tremendous amount of suppression. There is no suppression out here, away from the church. Come join your friends, yes…friends of LRH. Look, don’t Listen just like Francesco advises. I await your return.

  39. Another gem, Jim!

  40. Welcome to freedom,
    It’s always a joy to see another lock off the group engram and get theta restored.

  41. OMG Jim,

    Thank you so much for sharing that. Whenever I hear someone ask where LRH is, I think to myself that he never really left. Everything we need to know and learn has been left to us to use. All questions and situations are answered if we look.

    Francesco and Luana, Welcome home.

    P.S. I have decided that I’m going to be Italian in my next life. One of the “beautiful people.”

  42. Jim, this is wonderful! I must have missed that one. Thank you for posting and sharing. This is a great Holiday message for all of us.

  43. Bellisimo

  44. Jim, excellent find! Thanks for posting this.

    And Luana and Francesco; Thank you for taking rezsponsibility and well done and taking your sanity back!

    Italy will be the first free and clear continent!

    Viva Italia!!

    ML Tom Martiniano

  45. Theo Sismanides

    Sam, hahaha, wonderfully said!! LOL!! OSA, congradulations.

  46. Wow Italy is really moving as was expected. Last week I was reading about the Romans and how they came to be. They were just tougher. When they lost a key battle against Hannibal, and back then when you lose the enemy is coming for your family next etc..but anyways they outlawed mourning and grieving. Then they decimated carthage and plowed salt into the ground.

  47. Jim, wonderful LRH quote. Puts the whole scene in a perspective we can appreciate from both the positive events in the field and negative situations in the church we see existing today.
    Too bad the church doesnt have LRH’s spirit as embodied in this lecture. This is the LRH I enjoyed the most.
    I am sure this is the LRH Francesco and Luana relate to. This is living outside oneself.

  48. Theo Sismanides

    Hey Jimbo man,

    That was so cool! I never read that one. Great perspective and scope for Scientologists. Given that message Scientology gets a new meaning in a troubled world and the only way out is to move forward and carry the message of spirituality and human rights to the world in a modern language as LRH says.

    I am talking with Christians, Muslims and other denominations even here in my neighborhood. I feel good since the “4th dynamic” is now coming somehow to me even if a bit “curtailed”. I mean though there are many other nations around me now. Interesting! They come as if they need to know about the tech. I can sense it. All that is needed is now for us to show the Administrative skills to move forward. Nothing else.

  49. Congratulations to both of you!

  50. It warms my heart to see such valor! Welcome, gorgeous young Italian Independents! Good to have you here!

  51. Its so nice to see strong independent people who are not afraid to look and think for themselves. Not that I have anything against sheep – they help make great sweaters.

  52. Francesco and Luana, Congratulations…wonderful posting. I wish to two of you much happiness and love. Absolutely outstanding!!!!! Freedom is a beautiful thing.

    Love Carol

  53. Luana and Francesco:

    Very inspirational message. So straightforward and filled with Italian passion.

    Interesting that your research online began after OSA cautioned you to not look. I have a similar experience. Some SO members — not OSA –wanted to talk to me about a friend because of her online activity which I wasn’t aware of. Up to that point I had no inclination to look online regarding Scientology. Their inspection before the fact, looking for indicators in me that weren’t there, made me wonder what they were so concerned about. That’s when I started poking around online and found this site and others and decided to unravel the whole ball of string for myself.

  54. Francesco Minelli and Luana Barbaglio

    In a way the current CofS left you when it began the preventing the application of LRH tech and policy.

    Thanks for applying the Tech in your lives


  55. Jim, As you know I was in the RPF at the same time. Amir and I spent 3 or 4 days in isolation together. We both were sick. We had lots of time together so we started telling stories. We laughed a lot and enjoyed each others company. What a great guy. He loved Italy and talked about returning often. Francesco and Luana Welcome to the Independents!
    Very well done on keeping your personal integrity! Love, Sargio

  56. Tony DePhillips

    You remind me of Jack Palance.

  57. You are very funny! HA HA HA. Theta warms the place so well, we don’t need no stinkin’ sweaters!

  58. Welcome.

  59. Francesco and Luana — fantastic. May your newly announced independence act as encouragement to other second generation scientologists in particular and to the scientology public at large.

    IF the second generation starts to back away – then truly there will be no more scientology churchies in about 20 years. I understand very few new people are coming in – the older generation are well — old.

    And the 2nd generation is just too damn smart to stay for long …


  60. Jim, not the first time you post this reference, but each time on a very appropriate manner. This is a real pearl! Thanks MOQ!

  61. Tory Christman

    You’re welcome, Jim 🙂 Did you watch the video? Just curious how you
    liked my horns. Happy Holidays to all ….and thanks for that quote, too.

  62. one of those who see

    Wow Jim!! Thanks so much for posting this. Is there a way to get the entire Ron’s Journal ’68? I have printed out what you have quoted from it.
    Hi Francesco & Luana!! So happy to have you as part of this wonderful group of Independent Scientologists!! As so many others I have so much affinity for Italians. So much LIFE!
    To Freedom!

  63. Jim – Hearing Ron’s Journal 69 again is interesting because when I first heard it, there were not all these “disconnection, etc.” issues flying about. Reading the quotation tells me that Ron meant it when he said “sorry” and no more disconnection and tough guy stuff. It was done for a reason, perhaps done too heavily, and that reason was now over in celebration of Standard Dianetics and whatever other breakthrough had been made. Unfortunately, the paradigm would change again and again and “what worked in the past” would be implemented again in a new format. One of these new formats was Integrity Processing wherein LRH did a really good job, with the help of Brian Livingston, of raising sec checking to new and very positive level. Sooner or later, however, the bullshit of the past would kick in and heavy ethics were implemented. R/S hunting was an even heavier form and turned out not be very effective as R/Ses are very elusive and much misundertanding ensued. LRH used heavy ethics (correctly or incorrectly – I’m not judging here) because he was BATTLING forces that were counter to what he considered optimum Scientology. Most of the attempted honest criticism at him is by individuals who did not see the whole picture. If LRH ever over-used heavy ethics, it pales in comparison to others gleefully using parts of it to create 3D engrams. That is the primary misfortune of the creation of harsh ethics: it being misused by others in a destructive format. Same as using a gun to murder or maim instead of self-defense.

  64. Just got the new Celebrity mag.

    Travolta’s on the cover.

    DM must’ve been watchin’ some recent fishin’ videos on your site here, Marty.

  65. Sarge,

  66. Francesco and Luana, Super Well Done on your search for the truth, finding it, telling all and even ending with your demand for your money, materials and folders. Me-OW!! I wish you all the happiness and abilities you set about to get when you started (and more!) and I hope you find more and more friends who come out of the woodwork and connect up with you. Go Team Italia!

  67. Yes I did watch your video. I appreciate you pointing up that no matter what any of us may have done, none of us are perfect and the relief one can get from a well done, standard session, is far better and easier than carrying around that junk.

    In any and all posts I’ve made on any and all public forums, I’ve always differentiated between the subject and practice of LRH’s Scientology and any Church of Scientology. It is an important distinction.

    The gains I’ve made with Scientology, and the gains I’ve seen others make when I’ve applied it correctly are unmistakable.

    I’ve had as many rotten things done to me as any. None of them stuck and that’s thanks to my understanding and application of the subject.

    I have hope for the future when this Suppressive Person, DM is off that post he made up, and handled as standardly as any other should be, and all persons can benefit from the truly helpful things that Scientology, ethically practiced, is capable of bringing about. The day when a Church of Scientology is again, coterminal with Scientology.

  68. An amazing story! When I think of the incredible work done by pioneer Ron Love whom LRH has sent to start up and establish Italy I am disgusted by what it has now become.
    I personally met Ron Love who told me the stories of how in the early days of Italy they would sit around in a group meeting and translate an HCOPL and from that understanding they would apply it with resolve and enthusiasm .
    This is the spirit that made Italy the fastest exepanding area that had ever been known to Scientology and was a model for all others.

  69. Our greatest help in getting Davey out are his own paranoid orders.

  70. Gee it’s nice to breathe a little easier. The news just gets better and better here – a good theta tonic.

  71. Absolutely not, Logan! There`s no Difference between “LRH s Scientology” and the Church of Scientology. How dare you saying otherwise? And how could you do possibly know better than COB? Are YOU in possession of the Original LRH Materials? You are out of the game here. It`s David Miscavige who has all the Original Materials, and, after finding and compiling them all, (and LRH was searching for it too!) just made it all available to us, at a reasonable, good, affordable price. It was technically impossible to do that before! And only a miserable Thief would be able to demand posting all Files as mp3 s for free on the net. There are copyrights, doesn`t no one here know that?

    And it`s not true, every Scientologist reading this dumb Rathbun Blog converses to “Independent = Lost”. I was reading every single word here, since the beginning, and I`m pissed more every day. You are not convincing anybody, you can`t see the real scene, can`t even recognize a wonderfull masterplan, when you see one. Commiting overts tend to make you blind, and Overts against mans only hope are making you absolutely blind.

    As I read, some, or most persons on this Blog have had huge difficulties inside the Church of Scientology, and finally blew, or were kicked out. This was, because your seniors, Sec Checkers, and everyone else just smelled you are going to end like this, here on this blog, telling the world your sad live, and how bad you were treated. They knew that long time before you really did that.

    I noticed, most of you didn`t have any respect from any Scientology Official, and that`s one of the main reasons you was and are not able to get any case gain! No one here knows what Scientology really is about! I noticed very huge missunderstandings, and no sense at all, analyzing importances, or recognizing priorities. No OTs here! Not one OT! You are bound to your body, and to this earth, and you are MEST by now.

    Come back, do A – E, and take a look at the real thing now. Start!

  72. Francesco and Luana ,
    The internet is the liberty tree for scientologists ( as Arnie Lerma once coined it). So glad you are out, free from the oppression and speaking up !!

  73. Good quote Jim.

  74. Vince,
    Yes, following this heartfelt communication and its sincerity, ‘heavy ethics’ again reared its ugly head. I’ll point out that LRH never, not at any time, applied any ethics in the absence of the fundamental spirit and purposes of the subject. Not so for others I’m afraid. He followed that issue up with the policy referring to trusting man with justice and the extremely telling World Out Of Comm (WOOC) Data Series evaluation of the late 70s, early 80s.

    The fact is, he was dismayed at what people were doing in the name of Scientology, calling it ‘Scientology’ when it was as crazy wide a departure from the materials as could be.

    LRH made mistakes himself, as we all do, but the tone, the sincerity, the intention the man had and expressed in the subject as its basic and overarching spirit- that of succor and genuine hope and help, was always present.

    This RJ is one of the best expressions of it I’ve ever found. It is undeniable and follows the entire period of the Justice Codes, the issance of KSW, the development of OT III, the formation of the Sea Org and all that actually comprises the movement.

    It is up to us to apply it with the angels of our better nature, as it is factually intended to be applied.

    “Early in 1968 we announced a humanitarian objective and this is why I was very keen to make this talk for you because this is where you can help. The humanitarian objective is to make a safe environment in which the 4th Dynamic Engram can be audited out. By engram we mean the mental block that prevents peace and tolerance. By 4th Dynamic we mean the impulse to survive as mankind instead of just individuals. Obviously we must do this. ” L. Ron Hubbard, Ron’s Journal 68, February 1969.

  75. Jim, you stud this thread with precious pearls! I tried to find this RJ online but couldn’t find it. Can you – or anybody reading this – provide a link for downloading it?

  76. Send me a mail at I’ve got a copy of the tape and am perfectly willing to share it with any who are interested. This tape is for ‘fair use’, in that it is intended to be used for educational purposes.

    Since DM won’t disseminate the truth of Scientology, it’s up to us.

  77. P.S. In the meantime, until such a point when the CofS is coterminal with Scientology – Vive L’Independent Scientology!!!!!!

  78. Jim
    Beautiful piece I haven’t seen before.
    Thank you so very much for posting it!

  79. Hello, all of you. These are the official stat of the C of S as of summer of this year. How do you compare to each the item on the list?

    Overall Expansion
    Total assets and property holdings of the Church of Scientology internationally have doubled since 2004.
    The combined size of Church premises increased from nearly 5.6 million square feet in 2004 to 11.5 million square feet in 2010.
    The Church has acquired 70 buildings since 2004 in major population centers around the world.
    The Church has completed over 600,000 square feet of renovations of new premises this year alone. In addition, currently under construction are over 700,000 square feet, including Churches in Johannesburg, Melbourne, Clearwater and Tel Aviv.
    Over 8,500 Scientology Churches, Missions and affiliated groups exist in 165 nations, doubling in just the past five years.
    The total number of individuals completing counseling and training services has doubled in the past two and a half years.
    The number of people newly introduced to Scientology and starting on training or counseling has doubled in the past five years.
    L. Ron Hubbard Books and Lectures
    L. Ron Hubbard has been awarded four Guinness World Records in the last three years:
    2006 Most Published Works by a Single Author: 1,084
    2006 Most Translated Author in the World: 71 languages
    2009 Most Audiobook Titles on Earth: 185
    2010 Most Translated Book on Earth, The Way to Happiness: 70 languages
    Eighty million L. Ron Hubbard books and lectures on Dianetics and Scientology have been distributed in the last decade, compared to 5.6 million in the prior decade. More than 68 million of that 80 million have been sold in the last two and a half years—more than during the first 50 years of Dianetics and Scientology combined.
    The Church’s publications organizations in Los Angeles and Copenhagen have been established as state-of-the-art digital publishing houses and can print up to 500,000 books per week—26 million per year—and replicate 925,000 CDs per week—48.1 million annually. Their production capabilities have increased by 660% since 2007.
    Over 4 million pages of L. Ron Hubbard’s writings have been translated in the last 10 years alone compared to a total of 359,459 in the prior 50 years.
    14,211 hours of translated L. Ron Hubbard lectures have been recorded in the last five years.
    More than 3 million L. Ron Hubbard Dianetics and Scientology books have been placed in more than 125,000 libraries in 183 countries since July 2007.
    L. Ron Hubbard’s books have won 18 design and printing awards in the past year.
    Dianetics & Scientology Films, Videos and International Live Events

    Over 7.8 million DVDs have been sold and/or distributed in the last five years, comprising 1,920 different DVD titles.
    746 films (English and translated) have been produced in the last five years.
    Since 2004, 4,474 videos have been produced (English and translated)—an average of 74 per month.
    The number of hours of video produced since 2004 is 1,571, averaging 27 hours per month.
    The total number of hours of international events (English and translated) produced in the last five years totals 1,698—an average of 28 hours per month.
    Over 30 million visitors have viewed more than 32 million videos on the Scientology website in the 12 months alone.

  80. I noticed that the cover photo is an old one, and that all the enlarged quotes
    above the text were having to do wins on courses/levels done long ago. I did NOT read the article past this skimming, however. My sense was that it was a recycled interview, probably within the church’s rights to re-use without the Travolta’s having to contribute or cough up new wins in present time. Anybody who read it have an opinion?

  81. Kathy Braceland

    Oh wow…what great news! Two more Italian spitfires! Nice to meet you Francesco and Luana and thanks for being here with us.

  82. one of those who see

    Perfect. Beautiful.

  83. Yes, but his name was Ron Loving who was amongst the first of the FEBC graduates. He was definitely the one who sparked Italian expansion and it started in Milano. One of the reasons Europe expanded over continents was that they only translated the LRH data and not those of others. It made for less arbitraries and they were able to focus on what was important. Ron gave me my first “first hand” reality on LRH when we stood on QM watch together on the Apollo. Ron was a martial artist and was very relaxed and he talked about LRH in a very relaxed and positive way, mostly from having been briefed in the research room. Too many people got hyper over LRH orders or what not. Don’t know what happened to him.

  84. Jim and Metaqual,
    Excellent LRH reference. I have looked at and lived during the history of Scientology since the early 70’s forward. I know there were times of heavy ethics when LRH was at the helm. I also know that this “heavy ethics” was to get in the Tech and then we had the real Tech. Now we see heavy ethics for suppression, control, overwhelm, and invalidation and dis-related to the Tech. When you don’t have the real Tech and no intention to deliver the real Tech then what Ethics are you getting in.

    The current Church management is simply calling something “ethics” when it has nothing to do with the “Ethics” LRH discusses in policy and his book “Introduction to Scientology Ethics.” It is about as close to LRH’s ethics as the current GAT is to standard training and study Tech. This is all just examples of squirrel and reverse scientology.

    To paraphrase Metaqual when writing “same as using a gun to murder or maim instead of self-defense.” It is currently closer to use a gun to create pleasure for the shooter by playing with the recipient, and enjoying the pain, agony and horror created. There is currently joy in the murder and maiming step. There is nothing about ethics, justice or standard tech in the current activity. As long as that continues we can look forward to more people “LOOKING”, and after that we will see more declare their status of “Independent Scientologists dedicated to the knowledge, use and application of LRH’s legacy to mankind.”

    Thank you Jim and Metaqual for the enlightenment of your postings.

  85. Scott Campbell

    Francesco and Luana,

    Thank you for looking and finding the truth. Well done on keeping your integrity in.

    From Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice, 1596:

    “LAUNCELOT: Nay, indeed, if you had your eyes, you might fail of the knowing me: it is a wise father that knows his own child. Well, old man, I will tell you news of your son: give me your blessing: truth will come to light; murder cannot be hid long; a man’s son may, but at the length truth will out.”


  86. Scott Campbell


    We used to love it when the Italians would descend on the Freewinds for Italy Week.

    They were so crazy, so full of life and love. They love to party.

    They could be going late into the night and someone would say, “Oo’s-a ‘ungry?” Then someone would say, “We need pasta!”

    Soon , a recon mission would be sent out, banging on the Italian cook Mario’s door with shouts of “Mario! We need pasta!” – at 2:00 in the morning.

    Needless to say, pasta was obtained and the party rolled on.

    What a cool group of beings.


  87. Scott Campbell


    You never cease to amaze me. Wow. Your just a “Source” source.


  88. Scott Campbell

    Miscavige better get a “clicker” eh, Cowboy?

  89. Scott Campbell

    Dropped out time.

  90. Welcome my friends! I love the way in which you told your story. Fantastic!I am more than happy to be your friends and part of the Independent family. You are beautiful, bright people. Yeah – make my day.

  91. Amen

  92. Hmm. Weird. I just got “The Auditor”. It says it is “The Monthly Journal of Scientology”, but I can’t recall receiving one or seeing one in a long time.
    They redesigned it. It’s in color with color pics and personalized stories (anecdotal “stats”), birth, marriage and death announcements and a bunch of other stuff. It’s realy quite something. I wonder if it came from that new promo center.

  93. Jim,
    Love the legal citation. I don’t have time to read every post every day – so many viewpoints, so many stories. However, I almost always take note of your posts because they are so anchored in source, and I find they help me keep balanced!

    Thank you for sharing all that scholarship!! You do a great service here.

    Best wishes to Luana and Francesco as they stand up for what they observe to be true for themselves.


  94. Thanks Metaqual I realized that after I posted and didn’t get back to fix it in time.
    It seems like another lifetime ago and I really appreciate your input on him as he was one of the true OT’s I was privliged to meet in my Scientology track.
    He imparted ARC and wisdom while granting everyone around him tons of beingness.

  95. Oh Snow …

    You crack me up 😛

    I still like the old Snowhite better, but you’re gaining fast.

    btw, I have an ‘original’ altered Miscavige F/N HCOB.

    Lucky me because I couldn’t find a single LRH book in any of the local libraries.

    Well done for finding all that missing tech Davey!!

  96. OTV — Not to get sucked into your trolling, as it really speaks for itself that these generalities and MEST “countings” now substitute for stats. But just one of these wonder stats stopped me short:

    “Over 8,500 Scientology Churches, Missions and affiliated groups exist in 165 nations, doubling in just the past five years.”

    I believe if you will look back at statements made at events (and maybe even to the media?) prior to 2005 you will find the SAME statement, though the number given then was 8,000. As has been documented elsewhere a number of times, there are approximately 7500 of these “affiliated groups” missing when you add up everything that can be found on the Church’s own websites.

    This single, massive lie should tell you ALL you need to know about these stats.

    And as for “28 hours” of international events produced each month and 1571 videos produced (NOT LRH) — anyone proud of these “stats” is only proud of the verbal diarrhea of Dear Leader and has utterly lost sight of LRH.

    Sad, sad comment.

  97. Snowhite,
    That’s some funny shit. Really, funny shit man. Good post!

  98. Fellow Traveller

    metaqual —

    This RJ 68 is not in any of the lists of materials I have access to — not the ’78 “What is Scientology” nor any subsequent edition, not the pyrite pamphlet call the Guide to Materials or some such.

    The only reference to it seems to be a HCO Info Letter:
    HCO Information Letter of 17 February 1969, Subject: Ron’s Journal 1968 Australian – Anzo Supplement for issue at tape play BPI.

    I have listened to it and it sure seems authentic. So you recall hearing it from “back in the day”? Maybe it has not yet been buried as some might wish.


    Bruce Pratt

  99. Francesco and Luana, thank you so much for coming forward and expressing yourselves so beautifully. I have a feeling the Independent movement will grow rapidly in your country. I have met many Italians at Flag and on the Ship and one for one, they have been way too uptone to tolerate the types of things the current Church is offering. And you’re lucky–you have Ignazio there to audit everyone!

  100. OTV,
    Yeah? Wow. Those stats may or may not be true, but what about these stats?

    Number of people punched by Miscavige?
    Number of people spit on by Miscavige?
    Number of people choked by Miscavige?
    Number of people kicked by Miscavige?
    Number of people Miscavige encouraged to punch, spit on, choke and kick others?
    Number of times Miscavige invalidated or degraded someone?
    Number of swear words used by Miscavige to insult people?
    Number of times Miscavige lied?
    $ Miscavige spent on extravagant luxury items using church money?
    $ Miscavige spent on Tom Cruise using church money?
    # of Hours of slave labor Miscavige used for Tom Cruise?
    # of words Miscavige had taken out of LRH taped lectures?
    # of pages Miscavige took out of LRH books?
    # of PCs and auditors Miscavige spun in by enforcing his squirrel FN definition?
    $ spent by Miscavige to hire PIs to spy on and harass good people?
    # of Scientologists Miscavige’s IAS put into bankruptcy?
    # of families broken up by Miscavige?
    # of forged LRH signatures by Miscavige?
    # of confidential PC folders security breeched by Miscavige?
    # times he joked with others about Travolta’s O/Ws?
    # times he joked with others about his ‘best friend’s’ O/Ws?
    # days he made staff go without sleep?
    # times he made staff salute his dog?
    # times he squirted Heber in the face and tried to humiliate him with a puppet?
    # times he flexed his biceps to get attention?
    $ of church money he spent on parties for his ‘best friend’?
    # quarts of scotch he guzzled?
    # times he made senior execs dig in sewers and bilges?
    # times he caved people in?
    # hours he’s spent in speech therapy in an attempt to get rid of his lisp?
    $ of church money he’s spent on lawyers to protect himself?
    # of square feet of LRH’s house he commandeered for himself?
    # of cars he’s disallowed staff to own?
    # of cars he owns?
    # of free motorcycle paint jobs he’s inured to himself and his ‘best friend’?
    # of senior execs he’s thrown into the hole?
    # heads he’s bashed?
    # of threats he’s made?
    # of hours of worthless pontifications of incomprehensible gobbledy-gook he’s spewed to a trapped audience in his office?
    # of staff he’s ordered to the RPF on a whim?
    # of hours of auditing he’s personally received in the last 10 years?
    # of divisions of TA he’s gotten on himself through his grounding rod techniques?
    # of O/Ws he’s failed to write up?
    # of overts he’s committed?
    # of staff he’s illegally ordered off post to reg for the IAS?
    $ he’s lost ‘investing’ the church’s money?
    # of confusing orders and programs he’s issued?
    # of hours of punitive gang bang sec checks he’s ordered?
    # of hours of sec checks he’s personally received?
    # of cases he’s ruined through his executive C/Sing?
    # of bad tech training films he’s produced?
    # of wretched Hollywood movies he back-seat produced?
    # of robotic tech training drills he has issued?
    # of hours spent working for the IRS?
    $ he has personally spent on new books, tapes, meters, memberships, donations and contributions?
    # of Scientologist actors careers he’s ruined?
    # of OTs he’s ordered back down the Grade Chart?
    # of Clears he’s invalidated?
    # of PCs he’s personally punched?
    # of LRH-trained veteran auditors who say the tech doesn’t work so well since the ‘Golden Age of Tech’ implemented by Miscavige?
    # of LRH-trained Class XII’s Miscavige got rid of?

    Since you evidently have easy access to the ‘Golden Age of Stats’ filing cabinet, coming up with these additional numbers shouldn’t present a burden to you.

  101. Oh God, this is why I am so glad I am not invited to these Int management implanting events.

    The meaningful stats of Scientology are:
    1. Well trained auditors. Per LRH, auditors are made by training in the academy, not just by reading theory from a book. The Basics courses are not auditor training.
    2. Well audited, well and happy preclears.

    Everything else is dev-T. That torrential flood of so-called “stats” is NOT Scientology. It is something else. If it does not contribute to the two stats above, staff need to be sent to cramming and management heads need to roll.

    How about clears made? Do you know the total number of clears has gone down? I guess someone gave them their reactive banks back. I would like to see someone try that with me. I would just as-is it again.
    How about well done auditing hours? Auditors made? Are you aware that stat definitions have changed from the old days? I wish I had the HCOB handy. A well done auditing session used to consist of a much higher TA movement per session. The student points are also counted differently.

    These meaningless “garbage” stats so beloved by Miscavage are used to stop actual observation and thought.

  102. Wasn’t that Ron Loving?

  103. I know they say don’t feed the trolls, but I would like to thank Marty for posting this. It leaves me speechless.

  104. Pretty impressive quantities of Mest and unverifiable numbers, OT V! That is if one is into Mestology.

    Where are the numbers of Clears, Auditors and OT completions (not redo’s or Div 6 courses completions)? Where are the numbers of actual happy campers?

    It’s very obvious that those numbers you posted & regurgitated at those hours of events just don’t add up to the continual REAL people who have their personal integrity fully in declaring their independence daily on this blog!

  105. Purrfect postings Sam! I second them!

  106. Francesco and Luana, so nice to meet you here! 🙂

  107. OTV, you can’t be serious, please tell me you are being sarcastic.
    If you would look for more tha half a minute you would realize that these stats are either meaningless, have been achieved through deception and/or extortion or total BS.
    I wish I could find a way to put a little smiley that is throwing up here 🙂
    I was fed that BS for years. It’s totally ridiculous!

  108. Francesco & Luana you are BEAUTIFUL!!!!
    That’s what I call coming out with a BANG!!!

    Keep us informed of the Church “response” 🙂

    Sending you big hugs from Seattle, Marie-Joe

  109. I just read the Travolta article, and it does appear to be a recent interview (though no comments about children or recent birth). It mentioned that they are establishing a mission in their home town of Ocala, FL.

  110. In deed it is beautiful words from Beautiful people.
    I have joined the crowd. Check out my blog and first posting:

    Marty, you have my permission to reprint anything from my blog to yours.

  111. Samuel,
    Bruce Pratt, our Fellow Traveller, provided me with a copy recently. Send me a mail and I’ll work out how to upload it for you.

  112. Yawn….
    After celebrating the Independence Declaration of these true Scientologist’s from Italy with their personal integrity intact I read your post. You post has too many outpoints to comment on all.

    I would rather hat than hit. I believe LRH in HCOPL 29 July 1971 Org Series 28 Personnel Series 21 Why Hatting29 wherein he states:
    Therefore, I shall attempt to help hat you so as to reduce your tendency to become criminal.

    Lets just start with one – please give me the exact LRH reference for your statement:

    “I noticed, most of you didn`t have any respect from any Scientology Official, and that`s one of the main reasons you was and are not able to get any case gain!”

    Is there a reference about respect for “Scientology Official” and case gain? I guess in your world one can’t run book 1 on a person and erase an engram unless they know a “Scientology Official” and “respect” that person. I have the new DMSMH book. Do you have a page reference for this statement. Sad, to have to resort to falsehoods.

    I only owe respect to those I feel have earned it. Sorry, that doesn’t include you. I have utmost respect for LRH and he didn’t write any “truth” that I see anywhere in your post. I have utmost respect for many SO members and officers, but not all who wear that uniform. My personal observations have shown many who do not deserve nor have earned my respect.

    Is there something about Italian Scientologist’s declaring their independence that upset you?

    Did Jim Logan posting a quote from the estate planning upset your preconceived fixed idea? – When he posted the following:

    “Estate Planning as expressed in the Bylaws of CST:
    “f. “Religion of Scientology” and “Church of Scientology” shall not necessarily be co-terminal. That is to say, the terms “religion of Scientology” and “Church of Scientology” shall be co-terminal only so long as churches of Scientology continue, in the opinion of L. Ron Hubbard during his lifetime, and in the opinion of all of the Directors and Trustees following the death of L. Ron Hubbard, to espouse, propagate and practice the religion of Scientology.”

    I was told that the LRH estate owned all original materials. When we gave funds for it, I was told the original materials would be kept in a vault. So how do you get “It`s David Miscavige who has all the Original Materials.” Did he steal them from CST. He is the COB of RTC. He is not the head of the Church, nor do I believe he ever has been the head of the church, which is CSI. Clay demo the differences between these corporations. The mother church is CSI. Must we educate you on the signed agreements with the IRS?

    A brief summary is:
    The Church of Spiritual Technology, also known as CST, is a Californian 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation[1], incorporated in 1982, which owns all the copyrights of the estate of L. Ron Hubbard. The CST is doing business as L. Ron Hubbard Library. The organization receives its income from royalty fees paid to it by licensing of the copyrighted materials of Dianetics and Scientology to Scientology-connected organizations approved by the Religious Technology Center, and from its wholly owned for-profit subsidiary Author Services Inc. which publishes and promotes Hubbard’s fiction works.[2]

    In a 1993 memorandum by the Church of Scientology International, the role and function of CST has been described as follows:

    “[…] CST […] is an autonomous church of the Scientology religion outside of the international Scientology ecclesiastical hierarchy. CST conducts an extensive program of activities to preserve and archive the Scientology Scriptures for use by future generations. CST also owns the option to acquire RTC’s rights to the Scientology advance[d] technology and religious marks under three narrowly defined sets of circumstances, each of which contemplates a serious threat to continued existence of the religion. CST is the principal beneficiary of Mr. Hubbard’s estate, provided that it obtains recognition of its tax-exempt status. […]”[3]

    In a 1993 memorandum by CSI, the following information was provided to the Internal Revenue Service with regards to CSI’s role and functions, its personnel and its income:

    “[…] CSI […] is the Mother Church of the Scientology religion, with ecclesiastical authority over the ministry of religious services to parishioners by all subordinate churches within the ecclesiastical hierarchy. This church has a staff of approximately 990 individuals and an annual budget of approximately $ 46.8 million, based on its annual disbursements for the most recent year for which financial statements are available. […]”[3]

    How about an agreement that you don’t understand what you are saying, the corporate structure of Scientology, or the subject and philosophy of Scientology – which by the way existed PRIOR to the existence of the Church of Scientology (an organization) which obviously negates your statement of:
    “There`s no Difference between “LRH s Scientology” and the Church of Scientology.” What about the bylaws of CST with the following:
    “f. “Religion of Scientology” and “Church of Scientology” shall not necessarily be co-terminal.”

    Do YOU still believe your statement of: ” There`s no Difference between “LRH s Scientology” and the Church of Scientology.” CST bylaws are a matter of legal record. Either CST is lying in their bylaws or you were lying in your post – which is the TRUTH here.

    Are YOU lying? A simple yes or no will suffice.

    Why don’t you first take a cold shower and wake up. Then, you can go to cramming to handle your MU’s.

    By the way, you may still own and control the copyright to something and make it available online for free in mp3 format. You brought this up in your post although nobody above your response had even mentioned the idea. Need some evidence or mass on this – Freedom Journal, given away for free for years, fully copyrighted the entire time. Another example, although not in mp3 format, “The Complete Golden Age of Knowledge, six exclusive video presentations that announce and bring to life” LRH’s Congress lectures, basics books and lectures and ACC lectures. Made available for FREE, copyright 2010 CSI.

    Copyright has NOTHING to do with price, cost or format – you can make free what you want free. The Church has collected more than enough in donations via the IAS to provide planet earth with all MATERIALS for free if you wanted all of planet earth to be able to avail themselves of this Tech.

    If you think I have stated any falsehood above then you may bring that up, otherwise I shall not spend any more time on this. I have more important things to do at this time.

    We, will continue the celebration party!!

  113. martyrathbun09

    Welcome AU.

  114. Welcome to the indies Francesco and Luana.



  115. A couple of notes about Snowhite:
    1) There seems to have been more than one person posting under the same name over time (varying syntax).
    2) The literacy level of these posts is about that of a 14-15 year-old which suggests that this person was recruited as a teenager, dropped out of school, and now functions at a marginal adult level – could not function outside of the Church.
    3. Snowhite’s responses often strike me as teenaged emotional tantrums! I keep thinking – arrested development…

    I feel sorry for this person in some ways because he or she strikes me as very child-like – living in a dream or fantasyworld. Maybe Snowhite was one of those vagabond children whose parents were never around to provide a real foundation for life with guidance and insistence on the importance of finishing or broadening one’s education.

    The immaturity of these posts is just more proof of what I find wrong with the modern Church of Scientology and why I am so dismayed at what the Church has become in the last several decades.


  116. Mmm I don’t know you but I was in the Sea Org up till 2005 and had access to the Data System… There were at least two huge crashes one was in the 80s i cant remember the exact date and a other one around the “Golden Age of Tech”. I’m talking about international stats that never got up to the same number they used to be. When I asked the Data Chief what happened he answered that he was verbally told that prior to those dates orgs used to forge stats which I never believed… I suppose Mike had access to the computerized data system, maybe he remembers… If any Sea Org member with good heart is reading this please post the real stats… 🙂

  117. Snowhite your comment must be one of the most hilarious ever written in the history of Internet. I never had huge problems on post while in sea org, contrary my seniors had huge problems trying to deviate me from applying the policy correctly, I was always a fan of standard tech my seniors always wanted shortcuts to make their stats look nicer. Another thing I’m already free, coming out of the sea org was the very best day of my life, I was ecstatic for years after and still am, you are the one that is not free and it’s bound to the Church’s mest trap called ideal org.

  118. Thats a true statement Metaqual, Open loving and very theta!!

  119. Old Fox.
    Your right about that I myself worked with Ron Loving in those early Days of course he does not know me under the Hadley Name. I experienced all the efforts that were made to get material translated at AOSHDK to deliver to Italians!We had few in numbers that could deliver actual in those days at AOSHDK , but any one that worked at AOSHDK in that time will know exactly who I mean . The Auditor that auditied them and those that worked with the italains on the Public Registration lines . It was an adventure.

  120. Wow. Welcome. You are smart to get out! 🙂 Nice to meet you.

  121. Francesco and Luana,

    Wishing you both an ABUNDANCE of HAPPINESS on your new journey of FREEDOM!!!

  122. Jim Logan — Thank you so much for posting this excerpt of Ron’s Journal 1968! These are incredible words to live by and with. Hallelujah!

  123. OT V,
    Lets discuss some truth, little Troll. The “official stat of the C of S” you posted is not per LRH. The OEC and policies on this show the “OFFICIAL” stats used in all Churches in the world. The C of S world totals would be the cumulative totals of these. You posted made-up crap. Per data series this would be added inapplicable and falsehoods.

    In my opinion your “Bridge Publications” stats must be evaluated in relation to Student Completions, NNCF (New Names to CF – the leading stat to show that Books are making booms, it shows new people are coming in for service), Grade Completions, Clears, Class 4/5 auditors made, Cash/Bills ratio, GI divided by staff, etc. These are the official stats and these are on the stat telex sent uplines every week. If the C of S is proud of these then show these stats off. Lets see the real state of affairs.

    Compared to LRH references the “stats” you brag about are squirrel. You cannot manage the churches of Scientology world wide on your above BS. Oh yeah, I see, no one is attempting to manage the churches of Scientology per LRH policy so therefore you can make up whatever and tell us its the best thing, all orgs are booming and look what fantastic feats of hallucination we have accomplished. You could have just written this last sentence and spent your time on other post “duties.”

    The rest are a joke and made up to sound good. You make a poor writer of fiction. It wasn’t even entertaining, but it did remind how gullible some can be. Go, have another glass of KoooolAide – you left anything LRH wanted and expected a long time ago. bi

    PS: Now, back to the celebration of the NEW ITALIAN INDEPENDENT SCIENTOLOGIST’s!!!!

  124. OTV — Assuming the stats are reflective of your stated “SCIENTOLOGY: UNPARALLELED GROWTH SINCE 2004,” then why can’t we be friends? Now, Mike Rinder has already weighed in with at least one of the stats being false, so the other stats are now in question, either as to validity and even importance. It looks to me like these “unparalleled growth” statistics are achieved through abuse because we then have to come along and pick up the pieces left in the wake, you know — rehabilitate the spirit and stuff like that.

  125. Floating Needle

    AWESOME! Great! Superb! Bravo!

    I really, really, really like your attitude! (It’s the Italian in you, I know.)

    Thanks for your post, it was very encouraging to say the least.

    Welcome to where the true road to freedom begins.

  126. Snow,
    Calm down sweetie. You’re hysterical.

    LOOK AT THAT WALL! Thank you

    Carry on.

  127. Watchful Navigator

    Here is a download link: while it lasts.

  128. Thank God you make some posts from time to time. It just proves how idiotic you really are. Who do you think can handle your church’s fucked up auditing cycles? Certainly none of your robots!!! Come and visit down here, there is plenty of stones to throw, perhaps you might end up in a present time you’ve long since lost.

  129. Watchful Navigator

    Good point Fellow Traveler.
    Criminally omitted from the What is Scientology? Hardback version “comprehensive” timeline of materials.

    It would be nice to hear from anyone in the know, why this is so. We are talking again, about LRH’s theta RJ68 message, putting an end to disconnection and many other out-ARC practices re-incorporated by DM and others into the modern “church”.

  130. Hey, it has to be 3 (!!!) Swings, otherwise you are liable to bypass Charge! That`s a fact, don`t you get that? Just accept it. You could have been Field Auditors, Golden Age of Tech trained, charging nothing, or the official fees. Stop squirelling around like mad, and stop telling lies!

  131. Oh boy it surely ought to be more than 3 to be really sure you spin in your poor pc. Go dig some ditches and make sure you swing at least 3 times both ways.

  132. Fellow Traveller

    Or I will be happy to forward the uploaded file as well.
    bruce(dot)g(dot)pratt(at)gmail(dot)com or if you prefer

    The file is about 24MB mp3, so I have used a file transfer service that is a) free and b) works.

    Or use Watchful’s link (below?) and go from there.

    Bruce Pratt

  133. OTV, how about this series of posts from revealing that DM lies? Also what’s the range of the 2x if it is true? Is it still nonviable=non-e per admin tech? Get back to me with something legit or I’ll post this on the front page. I’m going to make this a huge deal unless you back down:
    First Lucy posted some stats from DM’s website (I can’t find them on the internet anymore so I guess he took them down after he got exposed)

    10 million people directly benefited by VM’s
    8.7 million miles in service to mankind
    15 million hours in volunteer work
    Rehab and prevention specialists trained at NN arrowhead from 43 states and 19 nations.
    190 total centers and groups (NN)
    6.3 million savevd from drugs (NN)
    324 TWTH groups and chapters
    3.6 million TWTH distributed yearly
    85 million total TWTH in circulation
    27 new nations with LRH study tech
    11,000 educators trained in LRH study tech
    20 million people helped with LRH study tech
    53,000 LRH admin Tech Specialist graduates (what is this?)
    70,342 WISE courses delivered by consultants
    1.6 million people introduced63 new to LRH admin tech
    63 new countries opened to LRH tech since 2000
    3,409 new missions and groups this decade
    3.1 million people onto the bridge in the last decade (where are these people?)
    2,100 Ideal org staff to receive all public up the bridge
    5,000 community leaders enlisting themselves in our programs and campaigns in Ideal Org Zones
    1.4 million new public onto their first step on the bridge in ideal orgs.
    452,183 bridge publications square feet
    100% digital (the only such publishers on earth)
    65 million titles yearly production capacity

    and then here’s my response to lucy’s post:

    Documented Miscavige false report from Lucy’s post:

    1.) “3.1 million people onto the bridge in the last decade”:

    With 160 orgs on average over the last decade this is:
    37 PEOPLE PER WEEK PER ORG routed onto the Bridge. That’s 5.3 per org per day.

    Even if they counted the basic course-room this is of course not true. In one month if 90% of these people blew, you’d an increase of 14.8 people month by month who for the long haul. Every org in the world would be well beyond St. Hill size even factoring in an unrealistic 90% courseroom blow rate.

    2.) “1.4 million new public onto their first step on the bridge in ideal orgs

    Assuming for arguments sake that 16 ideal orgs have been in existence since Oct 03′ when the first two orgs became ideal orgs (Buff and Tampa), that’s 38 people per org per day routed onto course or into the HGC.
    If the amount of people blowing from the org were 90%, then 26.6 people would be added into the courserooms and HGC per week.

    So every year since 2003 with an extremely generous 90% blow-from-course-rate, and pretending there’s been 16 ideal orgs since the start of the ideal org campaign; 1383 additional chairs would have to be added to the courseroom of each org each year.

    If only 10% of THOSE moved up to SO service orgs for training and processing, then Flag, AOLA etc would have 13,270 additional public onto or through services in the past six years, this humongous influx from ideal orgs alone.

    Currently there’s a handful of people on the SHSBC at ASHO and St. Hill, FEBC training is practically non existent, Miscavige apologist sites admit for us that Flag is not booming and is in fact below previous years capacity, and AOLA is a shadow of it’s former self under Ivan. We have pictures of practically empty Flag parking lots at peak times.

    The only stats shown that matter are these two mentioned here. The rest of the stats build up to these. E.G. Books to libraries and books sold won’t hurt the Miscavige agenda as long as he cuts the org’s Div 6 and Div 6 —> Div 4 lines. LRH quotes on Books making booms don’t discuss when there’s an SP at the top.

    Also the basics aren’t allowed in the academy per policy, see, it’s explicit policy and completely squirrel. Yet Miscavige has the gall to include these on “Paid Comps” (his website doesn’t call it this) on his website to pad it. On ESMB if you look at the recent org mag completions lists it’s dominated by basic course completions. Subtract these from the mag lists and there’s hardly anyone getting trained, and auditing too is in non-e. They’re both in non-e range. “Real” Paid comps is still non-e.

    Miscavige will keep pushing this paid comps stat on his own website to maintain his suppressive grip. This masks his crimes alone, he knows he’s on the hot seat nowadays.

    This high crime lie should be exposed broadly. Some on the OT levels, still after reading these websites and reading these stat breakdowns wait for permission to stand up and fight back. It’s called being at shivering effect. Start over in a new unit of time keeping in mind self-respect takes priority. We’ve all been cowed by this to some degree but it’s a new unit of time with a whole group of us. We have a legitimate chance, no excuses. It’s time to risk the WISE job or Delphi tuitions and go public.

    another part of my post further down the page:
    “12-20 per week with 14 as an average.”

    Instead of 14 it’s reported as 266 which is 38 new enrollees (avg per day per ideal org) X 7 days.

    The stat is false reported to be 19 roughly times the level it really is, with arbitraries put in to heavily favor Miscavige. He might be 50 or 100x inflating this stat considering Buffalo is a flap and Sanfran had 8 people on course, 4 of them being staff per one report on ESMB, Malmo is reported being a flap, and even NY org Tampa and Madrid org watch reports aren’t inspiring. It’s out and out false reports.

  134. Snow,
    Actually, shouldn’t it be four swings? Y’know “back and forth, back and forth”. That’s four. Miscavige still missed it by one swing. And what if the FN swings slower on the third swing? That’s not “even pace”, so ya gotta wait for three even pace swings, don’t ya? And if you don’t get ’em, you have to start over again, right? Gotta get those rhythmic swings, right? I think Dave needs to go to Squirrel Kramming to handle this outpoint.

    But at least he’s trying, though. Hey, I don’t see too many people trying to fix all LRH’s mistakes he left behind, leaving all those Class VIIIs and XIIs incomplete on their handling of FNs. At least he’s making progress, so thanks to DM for that.

  135. Snowwhite says, “What wall?”

  136. Sapere,
    “look what fantastic feats of hallucination we have accomplished”

    That’s a great line.

  137. Also, what if the rhythm is wrong? What if it’s like an Aborigini jungle rhythm or something like that? Won’t that upset the Western World needle rhythm detection capabilities? Damn, this is getting so complex.

  138. OTDT,
    This comment, from such a gifted writer as you, is humbly appreciated. Thank you.

  139. Tony DePhillips

    That was so F—ing funny I could not read the whole thing. I have to take it on a gradient!! ROFLMAO!

  140. Tony DePhillips

    Your comment is about as boring as the Int events!!!

  141. Snowwhite says, “What wall?”

    Or, “You’re not the boss of me!”


  142. Francesco & Luana MINELLI



  143. Francesco Minelli and Luana Barbaglio congratulations.
    I know I posted this before but I think it’s apropriate

  144. Joe: I watched Amir Gueron CRUSH REG people with his promises of spiritual freedom. He became one of the robots in Scientology – get their money – all of it. He devastated people’s lives and put them at total effect. I watched good friend lose their homes, file bankruptcy and reach humility beyond belief. This is not a Church – this Organization does not help. Many of you don’t know what Amir was really up to and now you know – he was ruthless.

    I am sure his words were magnificent but his actions speak another story. Sorry to burst your bubble about Amir Gueron – and it really is not his fault – he had to do it – he was forced to get his stats up and up and up.

    This is what Scientology is today – “who cares what happens – if you are a Reg – your job is to get as much money as possible and then walk away! It is someone elses job to deliver what is promised.” The people Amir regged were not even able to do any bridge because they were pounded by creditor’s and banks and were caved in.

    I feel sorry for Amir Gueron – he died young, he did not help people – he hurt them by crushing their financial situation to sand – putting them at total effect. He did the opposite of what he thought he would be doing – not helping and hurting in the name of help!

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