Ingrid Smith Creates an Oasis in LA



When I was a kid there was a lot of talk of Russia bombing us. One day at my school we were marched into the auditorium to watch a movie about that very threat. It ended with a nuclear explosion going off and the people in the vicinity quickly disintegrating to skeletal form and then nothing. That was pretty scary.

The scariest movie that I saw as a kid though was ”The Invasion of the Body Snatchers”. This was about people in a small town whose bodies are taken over by cold emotionless aliens. The theta in the town was disappearing–no more friendly grocer, the chatty neighbor or the caring teacher. I found that terrifying. They looked the same on the outside, but inside they were somebody else and somebody you didn’t want to meet.

Even at an early age I found the destruction of the spirit more horrible than the body. I understood why when I got into Scientology. Thetans have been on a long dwindling spiral from suppression and implants. It is what is done to the Thetan, not the body that destroys him the most.

I got in on a 4th dynamic ruin. I became an auditor very quickly and have continued to audit since. To free beings and help restore self-determinism is very important to me. Also to reverse this dwindling spiral. For one thing beings in that condition are much more fun to interact with. Robots are not.

Ron knew that data in Scientology could be used in such a way as to do tremendous damage to the being. Unfortunately David Miscavige has proven him right. Here are Ron’s chilling words:


It (Scientology) is not in itself an arbitrary, Fascistic police force to make sure that we all think right thoughts. It’s a servant of the mind, a servo-mechanism of the mind. It is not a master of the mind. Scientology will decline and become useless to man on the day when it becomes the master of thinking. Don’t think it won’t do that. It has every capability in it of doing that. Contained in the knowable, workable portions before your eyes, there are methods of controlling human beings and thetans which have never before been dreamed of in this universe. Control mechanisms of such awesome and solid proportions, that if the remedies were not so much easier to apply, one would be appalled at the dangerousness to beingness that exists in Scientology.”

The Church has simply become another suppressive force and implant station in a long line of them on the track. How can I possibly be connected to that? It goes against everything I believe in. That is why I am announcing my disconnection from a Church that destroys beings. I want to thank Marty for giving me the forum to do this in. Fortunately, I have what is important–the tech.

Please visit my new blog:

142 responses to “Ingrid Smith Creates an Oasis in LA

  1. Ingrid, Hey there girl, you are looking great!!! Welcome!!!! I am truly happy for you. Love Carol

  2. Awesome! Hi Ingrid! 🙂

  3. OMG! Ingrid! I was wondering what happened to you!!!! Welcome to sanity!!!

  4. Tony DePhillips

    What a lovely theta message from a theta woman.
    Welcome to the Indies Ingrid!!
    We are all glad you are such a sane and caring Thetan.

  5. one of those who see

    Hi Ingrid!!! Already reading your blog. Love your tone 40! So glad you are among the free people!

  6. Welcome Ingrid!

    Funny you should mention “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.” It was not lost on me that one of the first movies Nicole Kidman made after “leaving” Scn was a re-make of that movie, called “The Invasion”. I wonder if it was partly auto-biographical? 😉

  7. Welcome to what is now the shiny side of Scientology Ingrid!

    PAC reminds me of “The Invasion of the Body Snatchers” too.

    Scary place these days for sure.

    I’m a VI in the LA area…

    Well actually LA adjacent.

    Please contact me at



  8. Bravo Ingrid! Thank you for standing up. It feels great huh? I loved that PDC tape. Best of luck on the new phase of the journey. We are all with you in Spirit.

    -Brian Culkin

  9. Thank you for that reference: “Contained in the knowable, workable portions before your eyes, there are methods of controlling human beings and thetans which have never before been dreamed of in this universe. Control mechanisms of such awesome and solid proportions, that if the remedies were not so much easier to apply, one would be appalled at the dangerousness to beingness that exists in Scientology.”
    I have felt this in my gut. That as awful as other mind control groups are that there was something uniquely awful about the misuse of SCN.
    So thank you for that reference.

  10. Ron’s words from PDC lecture #20 are chilling and apropos to the current vulture culture inside the church of Dm-ology. What ever happened to saving the world? What a joke it has become! That game is over, yet they don’t even notice.

  11. Tony DePhillips

    That is scary!!!

    INVASION OF THE BOT SNATCHERS!! You can get by them by not showing any signs of intelligence or integrity. If you show any then watch out you will be a target for BOTOMIZING..
    Come on OTDT do your stuff. This is a softball for you…

  12. Absolutely wonderful.

  13. Joe Pendleton

    Having never been in the SO, I don’t know many of the folks who post on this blog (well, I was on staff with OTDT back in the day). And now Ingrid (Loe) Smith, whom I met almost 41 years ago and worked with on staff at a Cl IV Org. As I recall, she trained on her levels in 1971 or so, and has been a working auditor ever since. Someone who has decades of experience and production. I would run into Ingrid every 4 or 5 years and she would still be “in the chair.” She is someone who backs up her talk with a VERY dedicated walk. Do I have to add that she is one theta chick?

  14. Ingrid,


    Your brevity, along with that reference, speaks very loud and very clear.

    I’ve noticed that the IQ in church members seems to be limited. It’s a temporary condition which goes away within a year or two of leaving. For they cannot speak of or look at the actual truth regarding their current church. And this, tragically, leads to vicious idiocy when confronted with truth.

    Fortunately, LRH does state that “… if the remedies were not so much easier to apply, one would be appalled at the dangerousness to beingness that exists in Scientology.”

    And I do believe that this sums up the new job which you, Marty and many others are undertaking as auditors.

  15. Ingrid smith

    I just want thank you guys for making me feel so welcome.

  16. Hello Ingrid, with love and thanks to you for being the Auditor and shining theta you are.

    Recommended reading, Ingrid’s blog post:
    “What Happened to the Wow Factor?”

  17. Scott Campbell

    Another SoCal Indie!

    Yaay! Our stats are up Ingrid. I’m sure we’ll meet someday soon.

    Here’s some music for ya’

    L, Scott

  18. Hi Ingrid and welcome back to the world of Scientology the right way! I hear you on the threat from the Russians. I used to lay awake at night knowing that a missle could be launched and 20 minutes later a bright flash would end it all. I couldn’t sleep because I didn’t want to be asleep when it happened. Crazy world back then. Now it’s just spinny.

    Good to have you aboard.

    ML Tom

  19. Thank you for speaking your mind Ingrid. This early morning in Stockholm as I am seeing the sun coming up to my right, your declaration was a very nice read.

  20. Hi Ingrid,
    So nice to see your public announcement. The more folks who make their intentions known broadly, the safer it feels for those who are almost ready to do so!


  21. scilonschools

    Radiation exists in nature with differing values of ‘background’ radioactivity,it can cause or cure cancers, it that can harm you whether you are aware of it or not.
    It is important to know of it’s existence, andwhen refined and harnessed it can ‘help’ mankind
    As more powerfull isotopes are developed it becomes more powerful , therefore more usefull and dangerous at the same time.
    As mankind we always feel we can master and control ‘anything’, but we never fully allow for the unexpected, the earthquake, tsunami or indeed radical terrorist who all can upset those plans.
    I think many wish we had never developed and engineered so many distilled uses of radioactivity ,but we did, they are out there, I guess we just need how to handle it with care.

  22. theo Sismanides

    Hi Ingrid! A welcome from me, too, from Greece. I liked the fact that your letter was focused on Scientology and the Spiritual/Auditing/Theta side of things. DM has no chance. With all the people like you leaving, he doesn’t have a chance. You cannot build an organization on straws or… robots. And we are NOT robots.

    Thank you for standing up against suppression.

  23. Thank you so much Ingrid. VWD!!

  24. Ingrid this is fantastic!! WELCOME!

    Lot of love
    Silvia Kusada

  25. They’ll never notice as long as they’re inside: saving the world is used there as a high-tech trap for free beings.

  26. Hi Ingrid,
    Welcome to freedom!
    Hope you team up with Robin and rehab some 4D ambitions.

  27. Tory Christman

    Congratulations, Ingrid! It is Sooooooooooo Important that you share your story—thank you.

    Enjoy your new found freedom—pretty amazing, eh?

    My love to all 🙂


  28. What a beautiful statement Ingrid, and what a devastating quote from LRH. As you say on your excellent blog: “The moral of this story is — don’t let an SP determine your life and your future.”

    There’s something almost poetic in your simple auditor-viewpoint summation of the current scene. I was always an “Admin” guy, did most of the OEC, various full hats etc. I found it easy to evaluate the current Church based on my Green-On-White knowledge and certainty on it. To see the suppressive modus operandi dismantled from such a simple Red-On-White viewpoint is kind of emancipating.

    Would the last OT VIIs and VIIIs to leave the Church please remember to turn out the lights.

  29. TroubleShooter

    Hi Ingrid,

    I liked your quote very much. I wanted to show a bit more from the same lecture with one exception; in the new version of the PDCs that cob released, only the first sentence appears, the rest of the paragraph was deleted, omitted, edited out, erased, revised, cancelled – suppressed…

    “Therefore, we really do have the remedy before the assault weapon is produced. Did you ever read poor old George Orwell’s 1984? Yes,yes, that’s wonderful. That would be——–could be the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence. It’s a very simple remedy. And that’s — just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That’s all. Don’t horde it, don’t hold it and if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available. Because he’s the boy who would be electing himself ‘The New Order.’ And we don’t need any more new orders. All those orders, as far as I am concerned, have been filled.” LRH PDC Lecture 20

    Ron said it clear as a bell didn’t he, talk about foreshadows . . .

    Nice to meet you Ingrid. I got your body snatchers concept and it being terrifying.

    It will be good to see wins of your pcs get posted from time to time too!

  30. Hello Ingrid,
    It’s lovely to meet you! Thank you for your simple yet hard hitting message. Your courage, integrity and care are evident. You’ve made a big difference by speaking up. ml, Laura Ann

  31. Welcome – your write up is right on the money. Enjoy your freedom.

  32. Great post Ingrid – especially the quote from PDC 20. It is worth repeating here that there is a section of the SAME TAPE that Miscavage had REMOVED from the latest editions of PDC #20:
    “[…] and if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available. Because he’s the boy who would be electing himself “the new order.” And we don’t need any more new orders. All those orders as far as I’m concerned have been filled.”
    This excerpt blew me away when I found out that t had been removed from the CD editions, as it (to me anyway) was a clear admission of guilt by Miscavage – what other reason could there be for removal of that data ?

  33. Axiomatic,
    Spot on! ml, Laura Ann

  34. Hey TroubleShooter: “SNAP” 🙂

  35. Friend of Ron

    Hi Ingrid,
    Thank you for sharing your story and for this excellent LRH reference. It is chilling indeed. All the very best on your journey to even greater freedoms.

  36. TroubleShooter

    😉 Axiomatic

  37. Welcome Ingrid!

    As I look and relook and look again at your face — I think I remember you.

    We didn’t know each other I don’t believe (my memory hasn’t slipped THAT far) but I’m betting we know many of the same LA people and saw each other from time to time. Your blog is terrific. I hope you continue to write there. That OT VII who seemed so unhappy and solid — sad. Really sad.

    Glad you are there to help others.


  38. Ingrid, thank you for setting a wonderful example to the many others that will surely follow it — great site!

  39. Scott Campbell



  40. Hi Ingrid,
    Your Body Snatcher references are right on the money when it comes to members of the current Church of Scientology:

    They look the same on the outside, but inside they were somebody else and somebody you didn’t want to meet.

    I’m glad you are out.

  41. Yvonne Schick

    Ingrid, thank you for the theta of your message, the theta of your website, and the theta of the beautiful face in the photo. I appreciate that you made your public statement here. You are helping more people than you might know. ml, Yvonne

  42. At the risk of annoying some:

    One of the things that makes Scientology practicable is the statement, “if it isn’t true for you, it isn’t true.”

    I understand what LRH was saying in the quote from that tape, but it’s inaccurate.

    I used to be an implanter, and we did (seriously did) have the tech to not only control thetans and organisms (including humanoids), but also create anything that can be imagined. That’s right: anything that can be imagined.

    That tech transitioned. At one time, and periodically thereafter, implanting tech was a quasi-benevolent method of quickly assimilating a new and complex reality.

    But, hey, every creation contains the potential for its own opposition. (which is a natural law) And that tech “evolved,” branching out into all sorts of methods to control and punish. And we dreamed up some pretty lurid and heady methods of doing this.

    It was also used to establish “desired realities.” Playing fields, minds, bodies, universes were all fabricated using implant tech. You really want to know why people don’t manifest and control their OT abilities except indirectly?

    Scientology does a pretty good job of undoing implants. But, it hasn’t uncovered them all. I’m as certain of this as I am certain that I’m using this body to type a comment on the computer.

    This is not the first universe, as LRH has noted. Nor will it be the last.

    And as much as I admire Ron’s work, sometimes he says things that I find to simply not be completely true.

    The only way that Scientology will every completely work for any of us is to be able to thoroughly examine every statement, evaluate the data against data of comparable magnitude, compare the findings with our own experience, and make the understanding our own. LRH’s understanding is not mine. LRH is the source of his own understanding. And each of us is the source of our own understanding.

    The willingness to accept experience and data without personal examination and evaluation that increases YOUR understanding is one of the things that makes implanting possible in the first place. At some level you have to be willing to co-create the damn things.

    Holding onto another’s “understanding” as your own is just a quick way to go out of valence. Affinity, reality and communication comprise theta. But, to be in your valence, it has to be your affinity, your reality, your communication.

    Not Ron’s. Yours.

    So, the warning label should state: “accepting someone else’s understanding as your own can cause serious side affects.” I won’t list those side affects because some of them are just really, really gruesome. A minor one is the current Church of Scientology. A few others are on the OT levels.

    Rock Chalk.


    ps: Ingrid Smith, you are one radiant thetan.

  43. “I am announcing my disconnection from a Church that destroys beings”
    So beautifully and simply stated that it communicates on an aesthetic wave.
    Welcome Ingrid 🙂

  44. I was disappointed to find that part of that quote had been redacted from my nice new “Basics” PDC CD set. It can still be heard in full in the old tapes. Fortunately nothing else has been been edited from the PDCs as far as I know. They are still great. BTW Brian I hope you are doing well with your NOTs.

  45. LRH once said something along the lines that, information for building atomic bombs should be printed on cereal boxes. It would make nice breakfast reading. The point being, that data on atomic energy and all its ramifications should be spread among the general population instead of being kept secret as a means to control. If you don’t apply KRC to nuclear power, you can design a reactor that can’t stand up to a tsunami. Not all of them are like that, by the way. If you look at it another way, there is nothing that cannot be handled by increasing ARC along with KRC and knowledge of the truth — the very goal of Scientology. Note how all of these interlock.

  46. Last time I posted I wrote that I was eager to see who was going to join us next……and what a pleasent answer we have received.

    It has been and is apparent that the cream of the Scientology field is moving towards the independent field because LRH tech is recognized, respected, protected and practiced there.

    Welcome , Ingrid. We are all better because of your decision. You are KSW.


  47. Ingrid!! How exciting to wake up and see your pretty, smiling face on Marty’s blog this morning. You’re the first person I personally know in L.A. to come forward publicly. For me, L.A. is like ground zero of suppression for parishioners. Or it’s at least in the top two of Church “policed” cities–Clearwater being the other. This is not to make less of what any others are going through in their respective cities…it’s just that there seems to be a lot of fear, confusion, and non confront in particular in L.A. right now. So, for you to have the courage to stand up and speak your mind in the middle of all that means a LOT. It takes a huge amount of integrity, and you certainly have it. How awesome to have another great auditor in the Indie field. This is good news indeed!
    I’ll get in touch with you soon. (remember… you, me, Beverly Center, you being the stylist for an upcoming trip and how much fun we had?… :-> )

  48. (getting the truth one leak at a time, thanks to Deep Fax:)

    Office of COB

    COB Mandatory Directive


    Thetans are no longer allowed in the Sea Org. If there is anyone left who is still a thetan they are to report to security immediately for Relinquishment Processing.

    Anyone who knows of anyone in the Sea Org who is still a thetan is to report the details immediately to the Chief MAA.

    Anyone who knows of anyone who is still a thetan and does not report it will be permanently posted inside a sewer pipe.

    Thetans are dangerous, foolish and often act on their own determinism at the drop of a hat and therefore are unreliable. My investigations have revealed beyond the shadow of a doubt this to be the sole reason for any failure that has occurred, ever, ever, ever.

    It will no longer be tolerated.


    PS: Read these enticing Success Stories if you have any doubt about whether or not this is the greatest good:

    “I feel so much better since I eliminated myself.” N.S.

    “Now when COB beats me it doesn’t hurt a bit. I’m just happy to provide havingness for his fists.” R.M.

    “I’ve been assured they have my thetan stored safely away, so I no longer have to worry about troublesome matters like case gain or eternity.” Thank you COB.” G.W.

    “I sleep much better now.” H.J.

    “All my CI is gone.” R.R.

    “Rice and beans taste so much better now, I think.” M.Y.

    “I am so relieved.” G.L.

  49. Kathy Braceland

    Awesome Ingrid! Excellent closing with your last line — “Fortunately — I have what is important — the tech.” So true. Training and applying standard tech to make Clears and OTs. That’s what it’s all about.

  50. I applaud you! 🙂

  51. Ingrid !…warm welcome
    That PDC 20… exactly what is going one right now in the church ”Scientology will decline and become useless to man on the day when it becomes the master of thinking.”

    BTW, nice blog! i like that post particularly: What Happened to the WOW factor?
    I know my self a OT7, she’s on that level since 2005 and very hill. Another one, completely PTS (money wise) and another one from flag he as no ARC anymore, very bad indicator, not happy at all and obviously PTS. This is very sad

  52. martyrathbun09


  53. martyrathbun09

    I disagree. I understand and agree with what he says in that lecture.

  54. There is also the amazing and inimitable Trey.

  55. Michael: At the risk of annoying you 🙂 — your coming out as an implanter — are you apologizing or bragging:)

    Secondly, “what’s true for you is what is true for you” — those words were spoken before by the Buddha and what he said was DONT believe what I say. Examine what I say and teach FOR YOURSELF and decide for yourself, if it’s true for you.

    Which in my mind is exactly what LRH is saying. In other words, If LRH says XYZ — examine that first. Study it. Ponder it, test it out. AND if it’s “true for you” then it’s true.

    Accepting something JUST because LRH, the Buddha or anyone with wisdom says so — doesn’t make it TRUE for me UNTIL I’ve tested it.

    Then it becomes true for me.

    I’m not as wise as the Buddha or LRH or many others. Therefore I appreciate that they impart their wisdom and give me a chance to become wise in the process of listening, and contemplating what they had to say.

    This is quite different I believe from how you are viewing what LRH said. But then — I could be wrong. We often seem to talk past each other 🙂 (BTW what does Rock Chalk mean? — anything like Rock, Scissors, Paper?)


  56. Well hello Ingrid, so nice to “meet” you! 🙂

  57. Hi Windhorse,
    I have thought about this before. The fact that Ron walked into the lecture room time and again saying, “Well, I said we had it taped, but…” made me wonder if he ever did find everything there was to find. My conclusion is that we need to have research continue. The very fact that we didn’t have a good way to prevent someone like DM from taking over, shows that we still have a ways to go. And any entity that shuts down its “viewing department” will likely get thwacked upside the head. Thank you for your provocative statements.

  58. On google it says “Rock Chalk” is part of the cheering phrase of a Kansas college sports team, “Rock Chalk Jayhawk.”

  59. Oops! Meant that reply above for Onceuponatime, not Windhorse. Sorry!

  60. Well OUT,

    At the risk of annoying you.

    Evaluating Scientology tech or any *applied* subject is not a matter of involving oneself in the mental gymnastics or gyrations many call “critical thinking” but actually testing it for oneself by actually *applying* it to see if it works or not.

    Not *thinking* about it.

    Regarding implanting.

    Personally I don’t think there was any form of implanting that was “benevolent”.

    They were all systems devised to overwhelm the thetan’s self determinism and place him under the control of whatever regime was involved in controlling that sector of a Galaxy, Solar system or Nation whether it be Helatrobus, Marcab or Military PsyOps.

    There is *nothing* beneficial about these technologies.

    However just like anything else involved with the mind or spirit like engrams, secondaries and locks you have to understand their structure in order to undo them and this is what I believe Ron is talking about as the danger posed by Scientology or any mental technology for that matter.

  61. Joe,
    I wonder what happened to Waldman?

    PS: Hello to Ingrid, I had the pleasure of watching you saunter the hallways of the org in the 70’s.

  62. OK that’s truly scary shit! Uncomfortably real!

  63. Ingrid,
    Thanks for the great reference and blog! Welcome to the Indies, it’s great to have more from the So Cal area out.

  64. Naw – leave them on just in case someone stumbles on cob sitting in the corner.

  65. Very nice to meet ya! 🙂 Now I’m off to read your blog.

  66. Greetings Ingrid.
    Very very nice declaration.
    Nice to *MEET* You.
    I am your neighbor in Los Angeles !

  67. I have to agree that everything LRH said is not true.
    I would also say that Scientology and Dianetics are not easy to study in that many amendments to what LRH said are not ponted to in the material one studies. For instance:
    Eidetic recall as a test of Clear is corrected soon after the release of DMSMH but few Scientologists know that.
    Around 1963 LRH said that anyone who needed a rote procedure for running engrams didn’t understand the subect. Soon after that R3R was released.
    So if one were to take LRH literally anyone who uses R3R to run engrams doesn’t understand the subject.
    Apart from some confidential issues I never had access to I’ve studied everything LRH wrote on Scientology.
    In that he later corrected some things he wrote it seems quite probable to me that there are some things he would have changed in the tech had he stayed around a bit longer. I risk perhaps being accused of tech gibberish again but do think that people who go Clear can sometimes benefit from NOTs tech before OT2.
    In the CofS I attested to OT2 after running it for only 5 hours because the TA kept going up and overrun was reading. I later ran it fully after leaving the CofS but the lack of data as to why I was getting that phenomena led to a false result.
    I also see that 99.99% of disagrements with LRH come from misunderstoods.
    He made some quite controversial statements – for instance he said that homosexuals were 1.1 . That is easy to dispute now but at the time he wrote it homosexuals would go to jail if discovered so had no way to express their hostility but covertly.
    He said that blacks were stupid from his observations in South Africa.
    But he was then in an environment where a black person who said anything intelligent that might embarass a white man would suffer consequences.
    Some of his statements need to be evaluated according to the time and place in which they were made. One should note that for many years Alethia Taylor, a very thetaful and intelligent black lady, was in charge of his personal SO #1 line and worked closely with him.

    I do agree with you in that I see many Scientologists accepting “Understandings” from others as a substitute for the hard work of studying the subject in depth. One need only look at the number of people who follow squirrel groups like DM’s or Bill Robertson’s or the numerous others that have sprung up to see that.

    You would have to clarify what you maen in your last sentence about the OT levels before I would comment further on it.

  68. martyrathbun09

    “Criticizing” in a broad public forum is senseless. See, Study Tape One, Introduction. Once one duplicates, understands, and masters the subject through results – by all means. But doing so here comes across pathetic. My come back to most of the sniping covers such a breadth of material that I don’t have the time to do it. And if I did it would be meaningless to someone who hadn’t studied deeply and applied widely to result.

  69. OUT,
    The real problem is not that the LRH datum you cite has insufficient latitude, it has more than enough latitude. The real problem is that too few actually apply it and own Scientology as their own. Thus they vacate ownership and allow Miscavige to own it instead, even while he abuses them and it most horribly.

  70. Hi Ingrid
    I love your message. Others (including myself) will be letting the world know that we are no longer connected to the SP organization and are now freely delivering LRH. A wonderful reg and friend (Rick Alexander) as he was trying again to sell me more books, told me that we are in the Age of Aquarius. I reminded him that was in the 60’s when we were still–doing what we did in the 60’s. He said that was the “dawning of” and now we are in the Age of Aquarius.
    Rick, I hope you are doing okay.

  71. OUaT,
    thanks for your statement. I have observed that too.

  72. Ingrid,
    you have a great website, it feels very theta and alive.

  73. Tony DePhillips

    “Now when COB beats me it doesn’t hurt a bit. I’m just happy to provide havingness for his fists.” R.M.


  74. Hello Ingrid! I’m located far away from you but know, by your great declaration, we are now neighbors in a very different universe we are creating. Welcome! H

  75. I know Marty. It’s like someone saying “I disagree with Einstien – I’ve got a high school education, only read a little of his work, but he isn’t right all of the time. In fact I disagree with E=MC squared! I have my own Ideas about that.” It’s like – really?? Who the fugru?

    Scientology isn’t for reading and picking out what one happens to duplicate and then criticize it. That’s what dillitante scholars do. Scientology has been developed in order that people get together and audit out the bank. Why all this complication? If you aren’t OT and I mean OT per definition, then what the fug are you talking about?

    Read some of it. Apply it and if nothing happens, then move on down the road.


  76. Good one!

  77. Especially, “I feel so much better since I eliminated myself!” ROFL.

  78. one of those who see

    Have to agree. I can not see how any type of implant would be beneficial.

  79. Welcome Ingrid! I look at your face and you just radiate! I can hardly believe that you have bee auditing for 40 years! You look very much like my first auditor but I am not sure…have you always audited is So. Cal?

  80. Watching Eyes

    Welcome Ingrid. Good to know there’s another auditor keeping things sane in L.A.

  81. Marty,

    I said a lot of things in that comment, so I’m wondering what you specifically disagreed with. Within a lecture, I can see hierarchy of information. I have yet to run across a law or logic or basic datum of LRH’s that I disagreed with. And I agree with his statement as a cautionary comment, but…


  82. Windhorse,

    Ah, hell, annoy me all you want. Maybe I’ll learn something. I’m not averse to changing my mind when someone points out where I’m being stupid.

    As for bragging or apologizing: oh, girlfriend, there are so many other choices as to what I could have been doing. But, I was just stating background data for the comment. Sort of like, “I used to work on jet engines, so if you want to get a little more thrust with this contraption why not…”

    I can’t account for how people understand what I write. From the comments, I think what I said was not always understood as intended and triggered the exact associations I expected would be triggered.

    But, hey, if we never re-examine our thoughts and positions and why we hold to those, we’re kind of stuck.

    Lynn got it right on Rock Chalk. I stand by that also.

    Rock Chalk.


  83. Lynne,

    Yeah, LRH was always expanding his base of information and understanding. Most of what I said in my comment actually came from his works, so it’s interesting the disagreements.

    What seems to be lost on Scientologists is LRH as an individual. There’s a blindness to his being here and developing the subject. Wow! LRH just magically appears on Earth and suddenly decides to research the mind and thought and spirit! Wow! Instant coffee.

    But, he’s been around for a long time. Life time after life time. I’d love to get a look at his folders when he was running GPMs on this stuff. It’s a huge, persistent purpose that didn’t just suddenly materialize.

    And if you look at the energy and force generated by a purpose line running smack against counter-purpose and counter-energy, including ideas. Scientology got embroiled in a third dynamic GPM, and the current church is dramatizing as an opposition to that purpose, fueled by that original purpose. A reversed vector of purpose.

    And that original purpose is quite old.

    And it’s a purpose held by a lot of individuals. Not just LRH.

    Point is to realize that LRH was continuing to develop, so as understanding increased, certain data took on broader application.

    Rock Chalk, Jayhawks.

  84. Simon Bolivar

    It’s the first time I write in this blog, but I couldn’t help to do so. The lady in the picture remind me something. I know her, I know her from the inside or better said I knew her before. And in my mind she is the clearest person in the whole world (even though I know that many of us are clear persons). Sorry if I got in the middle of this act but I couldn’t help not to write it.
    Nice anyway to see so much theta on the line.

  85. Oh RJ,

    Sounds like you’ve turned on your anti-critic circuits here.

    “How you doing?” “Fine, just fine.” Even though the person has a headache.

    LRH brings up benevolent circuits in his ten-volume novel. A person wants to learn french, so the implanter has this program that fits in with the mental circuitry of the “mind” of the subject. Zip, bip, whip. Suddenly, the guy can speak French and impress his girlfriend over croissants and escargot.

    Experience is not black and white. Experience covers a scale. This is from LRH, mind you. Take pain. A thetan loves pain. A thetan loves anguish and distress and torment. Makes for a good story line in the game of life. Gives life drama. Gives life sensation. Even in sex there’s a little bit of pain. So, to say, “pain is horrible, just horrible, shouldn’t experience it. Nah, nah, nah,” just includes how a body responds at lower levels rather than what a thetan does higher up.

    An implant is nothing but an experiential pattern. Much like a movie. And thetans used to line up to get those experiences. Just because you have an implant doesn’t mean it has to persist, doesn’t mean you have to continue to be the effect of it. So, you get this implant of planets exploding and children dying and the world ending and yah, yah, yah. What a rush! Rollercoasters magnified by zillions in sensations and experience.

    Infinity valued logic. Infinity valued examination of experience. What applies at one level often does not at another. Gravity is a pedestrian example.

    But, what can I say.


  86. Welcome Ingrid.
    Your shining example is very much appreciated.
    And I agree with previous comments about the need to see more SoCal folks coming forward.
    Having lived there for 30+ years, 12 of which were as a full-time FSM, I think I have a good idea why so few have stepped forward…publicly at least. Probably the same scene in the Clearwater area.
    My sympathies go out to all the under-the-radar Indies living in SoCal and West Central Florida. It can’t be fun living in close proximity to the evil empire. Some friends in, some out. Never being sure which is which. Co-workers and social contacts that could threaten your livelihood or children’s school and friends with one KR.
    Not to mention all the calls and pressures to do this or that.
    Needing to feign interest and enthusiasm for all the great expansion, tech improvements, new releases…
    I’m lucky. I moved away 5 years ago which helped me destim from all that.
    I hope more from those two largest Scientology fields will do so as well soon.

  87. Faskinating. No matter how much I admire something, if I see it’s limits, those who hold the subject sacrosanct are convinced that I have failed to understand. I got that criticism on Jeff’s blog when talking about the limitations of science. I get it from Christians when I talk about the Bible. I get it from Scientologists when commenting on where LRH might have misspoken.

    Just faskinating.

    Where would we be without the ability to communicate and change our view of reality? Where would we be without the capacity to expand our understanding? Opposing views give us breadth of experience that increases our understanding of life.

    I have no desire to decry those who disagree with me. Sometimes they’re right.

    To make mistakes and to make incorrect statements merely gives us the opportunity to examine the ideas and actions from which those things originated.

    My friends are those who wish to expand their understanding.

    I believe it was Patton who said that a man who must rely on his bars to lead didn’t deserve them. I wonder at those who must depend on the words of LRH rather than the observations that lead to those words. It’s as if the words have become more important than the truths described.

    It’s a matter of choice whether one will depend on the patterns presented, or use understanding to create and improve patterns. Life is fluid.

    Perfection is its own proof. As is imperfection.


  88. OUT,
    You said
    “I understand what LRH was saying in the quote from that tape, but it’s inaccurate.”
    No offense but, I found the quote to be amazing! ml, Laura

  89. Here are some definitions:
    Implant – “a painful and forceful means of overwhelming a being with artificial purposes or false concepts in a malicious attempt to control and suppress him. ”
    2. “an electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance. ”
    A third definition of an implant is “an unwilling and unknowing receipt of a thought and intentional installation of fixed ideas contra-survival to the thetan.”
    implant GPM – an implanted Goals-Problems-Mass, an electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance using the mechanics of the actual pattern of living to entrap a thetan to enforce obedience to behaviour patterns.

    Not to be confused with “virtual reality”.

  90. Very nice words, Ingrid. Welcome!
    Love your blog. Since you are in my general area, perhaps we should get in touch. You can email me at

  91. martyrathbun09

    LRH said the following a lot more clearly and comprehensibly in the PDC: “I believe it was Patton who said that a man who must rely on his bars to lead didn’t deserve them. I wonder at those who must depend on the words of LRH rather than the observations that lead to those words. It’s as if the words have become more important than the truths described.”

  92. martyrathbun09

    “I understand what LRH was saying in the quote from that tape, but it’s inaccurate”

  93. Ingrid,
    Welcome! I like the simplicity and truth of what you wrote. I love your blog – it is inviting and peaceful. I am very happy to have you amongst the Independent field. I believe that you, just as I, merely want to see the dreams LRH had when he gave us the tech come to be observed in those around us. So a big hello, smile, and join the party. Thanks for being here. Thanks for communicating.

  94. You ROCK Ingrid!
    Great to have you in LA to audit my friends.

  95. Ingrid smith

    I want to respond to a few people. OTDT asked about Waldman(an old SFO staffmember) and where he is. Per excellent sources , he is in the SO. Yuck! Karen B asked if I have always lived in Southern California as I look like her first auditor and may have been.. No-that must’ve been my theta twin.
    I am so enjoying all you guys and you’ve made the “coming out” a lot of fun.

  96. Yes, when I was first in Scientology I didn’t understand how LRH could find that something needed improvement! One day it dawned on me that if he had dropped here out of the blue with everything taped, nobody would have believed him. The developmental approach allowed everyone to develop along with him on the line and take some ownership for it, not just be another group looking for a messiah with all the answers.

    And I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore, Toto!

  97. My last line doesn’t sound as funny on re-reading as it was intended. It has to do with Kansas Jayhawks and things dropping out of the sky….

  98. Ingrid,
    First and foremost, thank you for being true your convictions. That bodes well for you.
    I well remember going under the wooden desk, sirens wailing in the background, and putting my head between my knees and my hands over my head. Such foolishishness—like that’s going to do any damned good in a nuclear blast.
    But what is of more import is the manipulation of the “masses” in the whole occurrence. It seems Man has been manipulating Man since the beginning of time. It’s discouraging to think that this is what causes Man to engage himself—that he has to have an opponent. Or is it the components of a game that dictate this?
    The Muslims have their infidels, the Scien-Bots their psychs and yes, when we were children we had the “Russians” and so it goes. To be absolutely blunt and perhaps unpopular—how much does David Miscavige and his minions have to do with this group coming together as it did? (Leadership aside.)
    A rather unlikely outcome if one just considers the word ”independent”. 🙂 So there is always the catalyst.
    You as an auditor represent a new ascension for the individual wherein he rises above all this. A plateau—a bigger game. You are an enabler who can assist the person discover himself and measure up to an activity more suitable to his character.
    God speed to ya, Blondie!

  99. Tony DePhillips

    I would like to recruit you away from Scott and the LA area. I will tell you that we need auditors up here in Seattle and I will personally get you a burl MK 7 e-meter.

  100. Michael,
    Why implanting a language if it’s already in your memory banks and all you have to do is remove the forgetters. Now you want to leave the old bank with the implanted forgetters and on top of that implant again……benevolently….?

    Just so you understand the game being played in Scientology; it’s getting rid of MEST instead of building more of it. However, some have been inundated by false data straight from St. Davids Catastrophedral which caters to the needs of building MEST, the fast lane towards succumb.

    Some still believe that being more effect of pain and sensation is a good game but let me tell you a secret: it’s not! Scientology is heading the exact opposite direction; life and livingness and a better game to play. The game is to increase your ability to create pain and sensation to the point that you’re free from it. You then can experience or inflict it but you can also decide not to, no matter what others (try to) do to you.

    Implanting goes the other way around towards increasing circuitry, mechanics, inability, effect and death; the more implants, the less your own ability to create and experience, the more effect you are. Something exactly like Davey’s SOP.

  101. crashingupwards

    Tom, you said;
    “I know Marty. It’s like someone saying “I disagree with Einstien – I’ve got a high school education, only read a little of his work, but he isn’t right all of the time. In fact I disagree with E=MC squared! I have my own Ideas about that.” It’s like – really?? Who the fugru?”
    Well Tom, isnt that what LRH did to the mental health establishment back when he started. He had no degrees and was not a mental health practitioner.
    To now say anyone needs to have totally studied, applied and understood everything LRH before criticizing it or going off in a different direction is establishing a high priesthood or arrogance and “authority” which discourages and belittles anyone from looking, growing, or allow the subject to improve or become more manifesting in application.
    I am not saying anyone needs to take their time in answering questions or attacks from anyone who is just looking to shoot arrows. To them I say get lost.
    But I dont have any problem with someone taking some 1950’s or any processes and using them to help themselves or others. And i do not care what they call it or if they make changes to it. As long as its used beneficially. If someone wants scientology as practiced in the 60’s or 70’s, fine, there are practitioners out there. If someone wants something else, thats fine with me too. Results obtained will speak for themselves as to which survive and flourish. I am willing to condone squirrels as we call them for the sake of dissemination. Not that they will find a better way to apply anything. But trying to control the subject is not only impossible but probably not a good idea. The current church’s version of standard tech and control is the scientology version of the insidious Institutional mental health establishment. How did that happen? Whats the tech on that? what you resist you become? Just curious.
    To me, anyone who wants to insist on standard tech as they choose to pratice or sanction it is the “dilletante” when it comes to the between dianetics and the atom bomb. We went down that road once. It didnt work out so well. LRH said get busy and build a better bridge. Maybee a wider one where more is allowed and more can travel is one possibility. Imagine if the official church, with all its resources, was welcomming and rewarding of anyone who used any LRH tech in any form. I think we would have reached a different type of tipping point, a more beneficail one, about 10 years ago. IMAGINE.

  102. spiritualinsurgent

    I just want to say thanks for the LRH quote. Opened my eyes to how my thoughts have been monitored and controled. Thanks again for what you are doing!!

  103. To OUT: Regarding bragging or apologizing.

    Actually — it was a somewhat one sided private joke. Years ago a friend of mine was training with David Mayo – then Sr. CS FSO. Someone mentioned something in the class and Mayo said: Are you confessing or bragging?

    Which I thought was a great comment as often people will tell you something rather unsavory and it sounds more like bragging than confessing.

    I thought discussing being an implanter on the track was definitely something that could easily be misconstrued by others – at least was for me – and thus my comment.

    Reading your subsequent comments and those of others, it feels like some of us are taking mini-pot shots on what I believe was your intention to just tell people to really examine for ourselves what we are told.

    Perhaps the difficulty for me – with your initial comment – was that I really didn’t understand what prompted your comment and thus it just went south (for me at least) from there.

    Your friend —

  104. I still have the WOW factor because I’m not
    involved in the current organizational structure
    and never have been. I have met and conversed with
    many great individuals in the former “free to be”
    organization before L. Ron Hubbard transitioned in 1986.
    What is the WOW factor? It is the wonderful process
    of discovering you had all the answers to all the problems
    of the game that backfired by going into the fun of mystery
    and sliding you down to a full stop. All this process is simply put
    in the “Factors” of April 1953.
    LRH stated that if he did not develop the subject of true self knowledge
    known as Scientology, someone else would have,
    There are many embryonic or fomative stages of the subject
    in the historical aspects of philosophy
    from Plato, Aristotle, Sir William Hamilton, Stephen Pearl Andrews,
    and Athanasian Nordenolz. Andrews first mapped the word scientolgy
    as a distinct field of human or universal eistence of spirit superior
    to the physical universe in his 1871 publication on Universology.
    Ever see that photo of Ron sitting at a desk and a volume of Will Durant’s
    “Outline of Philosphy” is on the desk. That was a guide book in extracting
    philosophical truth and eventually taking negative conditions and
    considerations and reversing them to develop processes toward
    freedom and full self knowledge, He took the philosophical to the
    highest level of application.
    If we examined all of who we are as beings without the
    accumulated negative impacts, what would be call this if
    put into subject form? Scientology.
    So LRH developed this brilliant Tech on simplicity.
    Some snags were notice and Ethics, our true optimum self, was
    developed. And how do we operate in a physical universe?
    Admin was developed in simplicity – theta being uses the data
    of the mind (experience) and moves a body to create a product
    and adjust the process until the product matches the original
    concept or goal.
    What was the correct mode of operation? Ethics, Tech and Admin.
    You see it is very simple – the Story of a Static.
    Simplicity of Upper Level data is available to all.
    You want NOTs? Read “History of Man” and
    study the “Summary Course Lectures” from 1952. The cognitions
    you will have on this data will breeze you through NOTs.
    Again, we have here simplicity.
    Stupidity would develop the “End to Endless NOTs Rundown.”
    The WOW is still here.
    The subject is now back to its simplicity, thanks to
    the freedom fighters who are independent. Admiration!
    More simplicity? The being creates and partakes of its
    creation and comes out with experience unscathed by
    the cycle just undertaken. In short, the being actually
    observes itself through its own creation. WOW!
    Remember this. Standard Ethics, Standard Tech and Standard
    The alter-is of the above has created the enslaving organization
    that exists today with minor gains posted a big OT wins at
    a big monetary loss to the being. Money is, as LRH stated simply,
    a consideration backed by confidence.
    In closing, “The work was free.Keep it so.”
    Happy Birthday Ron.
    My best to all you freedom fighters, you great Independents.

  105. Free and Clear

    Well done for departing the Church of No Scientology. If you make a list of all the full time field auditors in the world, you come up with a tiny little list that would fit on one page. And of course Ingrid’s name would have been on it. Scientologists don’t really notice that anymore. Its just the patron superious barfomaximus that people are aware of. But its a big deal. Its the real Scientologists who are stepping back. Ingrid is a member of a tiny but elite community. Thank you Ingrid.

  106. Jeepers Marty,

    I’m just a hayseed from Missouri, straw chawin’, slack jawin’ . I feel like back in 8th grade (one-room schoolhouse) turning in a paper on Shakespeare and being told that my essay lacked the brilliance and eloquence of the bard. Damn, what hard standards!

    I’m not sure if your reply was a subtle rebuke at my lack of comprehension or an urge to study. I actually spent months studying the PDC back in ’79. Took each tape and spent a couple of days pondering each sentence in turn until I got through the tape. Then on to the next. Wrote copious notes after observations, filling more than thirty spiral binders.

    What I grasped actually prompted me to try to join the Sea Org even though I knew getting fitness board approval was highly unlikely.

    But, like many of your old acquaintances, I have really gone onto other studies. I love LRH and his material, even while having been exposed to all the anti-Scientology/anti-Hubbard material. His flaws (real or invented) don’t mean a thing to me. (I even like you, despite the hubris and hackles. But who am I to cast stones? I’m not out fighting a war and I’m not under any pressure.)

    I write, not to educate anyone about standard tech–certainly not you or other techies, but merely to reassure those sitting in the shadows reading your blog that Scientology has a great deal of value–even for critics, even for those who are not Scientologists, even for those who have walked away and now are confused or in doubt.

    Back in the fifties, LRH talked about the organization having a house publication that was brutally honest about both the good and the bad. To do otherwise would be to suppress the reality line, which would reduce ARC.


  107. Michael,
    Ahhh, the technology of implants-hypnosis. I was reading something the other day and realized what it means to be in agreement as a continuous inflow – a fundamental to establishing the suggestions of an implant/hypnotis.

    Take the difference between being aware in the past, present or future (as distinct from each other in terms of space, particles, position). A billionth of a second behind that march of time, and one is effect. He has to wait to find out what is occuring so as to be in step. That itself is a continuous inflow of agreement – the necessary factor in implanting/ hypnotizing.

    How about ‘what happened yesterday’ or a split second before, i.e. the past, is necessary for the future? There has to be agreement that the front door of the house was there yesterday, to ‘predict’ it will be there when you go out for a smoke today. It’s ‘logical’. It can also be an implant, agreed upon by lots of beings, to have that chain of events that IS past, present, future, so as to have a playing field.

    Up is that way = agreed upon, continuously, implanted suggestion, hypnotic marching along with (e.g.), one means of breaking the spell exemplified by: Look at that spot. Call that spot A. Decide to walk over to it…and the rest of Control and the Mechanics of SCS (Start Change Stop). DECIDE to walk over to it creates the future, and isn’t obsessive agreement with what that future must be as determined by what is agreed as ‘past’ or even present since that caused future position of space, particles and position is a break in that hypnotic trance even if only slightly.

    Does your attention stop (reach a barrier) on the floor? If it does, then by the theory of Advanced Procedures and Axioms YOU decided that no matter what implanted, continuously agreed upon hypnotic suggestion exists that you continuously agree to with your own created automaticities. In other words, BUSTED are any and all implants that exist in this or any universe that operates under the Qs, Factors, Axioms.

    You’d better get back to the drawing board on the implanting. Cause – (pun intended) your BUSTED!


    Jimmie (or is it).

  108. Michael,
    Waaaay down is my comment on this statement. It got mislocated – damn you and your implants!!

  109. Ooops, messaging is misarranging these comments. Damn the agreements on MEST!!!!!

  110. Spiritual Insurgent

    David LaCroix, Your duplication of the sit that people are stuck in is about as close to an absolute as I can imagine! The more I look at it, the more I see how absurdly suppressive it is.

    Waking up! Thanks


  111. Tom,

    Thanks for the definition. My bad for using the word “implant” when I really meant a much broader field, of which implanting (as defined in Scientology) became a malicious after thought. These definitions of implanting cover a very small portion of what I was writing about. Something on the order of a couple of pamphlets in a library housed within a building the size of many Pentagons–that order of comparison.

    I was writing from experience, not from the Scientology dictionary. Sometimes, neither English nor Scientology has adequate vocabulary to cover all that has occurred on track. Just look at the weird wording Ron invented for 3DXX. I grabbed the wrong word, thinking the reader could extrapolate a much broader concept.

    What I conceived covered all this technology that was developed to create and maintain common realities between thetans. How did you get a reality to persist? How did you get a time continuum to persist? How did you standardize interactions between thetans to avoid all the randomity of theta logic and theta creations. Thetans can string together some pretty weird combinations of time and sequence–which is all covered in the PDC.

    Way, way, way before electronics came on the scene, a bunch of very curious thetans were studying the laws of theta, creation, interaction, force and the entire gamut. This stuff wasn’t codified. There was no language. What was was, and most thetans never bothered to question it, study it, examine it, evaluate it, etc.

    What was was.

    For most thetans there was no reason to know beyond what they natively experienced.

    And understanding evolved over many, many manifestations of universes.

    As for the “force” and “pain” aspects of implants, life is basically a static, so how can a static even be bothered by these things? How much of an effect can these things really have? And how much persistence? Heavy force and electronic implants usually had very little lasting effect: the thetan would eventually just project out a viewpoint, exteriorize and be on his way.

    In session, they turn on a few nasty sensations, cause a bunch of TA, get odd meter reads, and blow fairly easily. A couple of minutes and pffffttttt!

    After all, you can’t kill a thetan.

    In my experience, heavy force and electronics implants blow pretty easily.

    The stuff that is hard to handle is far more subtle. Such as DNA and the coding that underlies the structure of this universe. I realize this doesn’t fit under the exact definition of implants, but it fits under that broader purview. This universe is a very high-tech multi-layered experiment in controlled reality, designed to self-perpetuate and block theta perception over a vast spectrum of potential experience. Very little of the actual controlling factors are located at the level of “force.” It precedes force. Precedes pain.

    The real point I was making was that some pretty observant thetans have long studied the laws of theta and universes and used it for the betterment and detriment of other beings.

    Then again, maybe I’m just delusional and all of this is crap. No big deal. I can live with that.

    Maybe we can improve my sociability by tying me to a stake and letting the group sand around and vilify me for not agreeing until I finally see my error and agree. Dang! Now that would put the “R” back in reality. Talk about agreement!

    And what is reality but agreement?

    I’ll go get my cuffs.


  112. Ingrid, that’s a great post over there on your blog … I just left a comment. Thanks for it. And welcome!

  113. Windhorse,

    Appreciate that. I figured I would lose all sorts of credibility and good will with my comment–thus the opening statement. But, I also figured that if I couldn’t handle any kind of flack coming from this quarter I might as well turn in my thetan and become a rug. (Albeit, a very fine Persian carpet–I wouldn’t want to lose my sense of aesthetics just because I’m agreeing to let people walk all over me.)

    I get the feeling you’re a “big” thetan with a great sense of reality and charisma. Good things for attracting other big beings with lots of ARC, not so good because unwanted beings get sucked into your space wanting to be you.

    Back to my comment: George Bernard Shaw said something like, “all great ideas begin as heresy.” I’d say, “George, buddy, so do a lot of minor ones.”

    I envy your get-out-of-jail-free card. No one seems to suggest to you that you would understand Scientology better if you studied such and such. (He whined.) I only like home-court officiating when it benefits me.

    Then again, not to offend anyone, but I seldom have time to read much that’s written here–even from the people I adore and admire. So, I really don’t know whether people go after you and the things you say or not.

    Such is the life of a busy family man who’s trying to——-grrrrrrrrr, keep the fucking blue heron out of the koi pond–grrrrrr, two of them just settled in the huge oaks behind the house and are peeking around trying to see if I’m around.

    Yep, being a rug would be good. No responsibilities. No cares. No one wanting to be you. Or make you not you. Just a bit of sole and occasional admiration.

    Maybe I should just be a tapestry.

    Is “sole” a synonym for “thetan?” It seems I continuously have someone’s sole poised three feet behind my head.


    Much love,

  114. Ingrid,

    My apologies for creating an unseemly distraction during your coming out party. I just can’t seem to make it through a party without throwing up on the rug.


  115. Welcome, Ingrid. Welcome to the party.

    On another note — Bert the Turtle — familiar?:

    Bruce Pratt

  116. I totally dig what you are saying.

  117. Here here I completely agree with your post. It’s sad to see my friends as robots just depositing $$$ and thinking they are creating change. When all they are going for is STATUS, not case gain.

  118. I don’t recommend become a carpet albeit a persian. I’ve been told crazy despots will sometimes chew them. And Heir dm seems to be moving quickly into rug-carpet chewing mode.

    I think whatever might appear as a free pass is only because I don’t debate knowingly hot topics on a blog. Ever tried to get someone to really “get” what you are talking about on email, when you start out knowing they will disagree or already do disagree? It’s basically hopeless.

    The written word becomes more and more solid and each cling hopelessly to their own IDEA which instead of being fluid becomes like a bludgeon.

    And lord knows we all hate like hell to get bludgeoned WITH “the truth”.

    We are very fortunate to have all found each other — our differences are fine and I believe majorly appreciated as we are all a bit shy of becoming too solid and rigid.

    I know I just have to be very certain that what I want to communicate, does that. And really check my “ACT ONE” –

    Ego is a tricky. Gets me all the time especially when I think — “no ego here”.

    BAM. That carpet rises up to slap me up side the head 🙂


  119. Crashing.
    I get what you are saying and I get what others are saying about this subject. And LRH did attack the AMA and the APA after a lot of research which resulted in Dianetics and a lot of auditing of sick people and making them better. He didn’t attack until he made the “better wheel”.

    The whole idea of this blog and the subject of it and why most of us are here is because we have been the effect of someone who has taken over the Church of Scientology, altered the tech resulting in thousands of people in misery, hundreds dead as a result and the entire hope of our future in the toilet. The focus point is not just the SP who did all of this, but what he DID and is still doing. What he did and is doing is altering the tech so that people did not and do not get better, did not go OT and did not find spiritual freedom. This is resulting in the subject of Scientology dying. Once it is dead, who knows. I talked at length to the old timers in Australia who were worried sick when it was against the law to have any Scientology practiced there. Sure, they had the tech avaiable but they had to hide it. They sneaked pc folders around like they were contraband – they were. They had to audit in secret. Some weeped as they told the story.

    The point is that if you use the tech differently than what it is supposed to, then you do not get a desired result. Simple as that. It is just like math; you use the exact formula to make plutonium or you get “something else”. Electricity cannot be generated by “something else”. If it can, then it needs to be proven. Just like the naysayers of LRH. If you got a better tech, then prove it.

    LRH said in the tape Standard Tech that 22 1/2 percent of people will get better no matter what you do with them. It is the other 77 1/2 that will need the perfect tech.

    So how do we get out of this? The technology of Scientology is for use. It is not for studying and being a critic (but if that’s all you care to do with it, then fine).

    I for one want to go OT. So it boils down to this: Do I want to get my bridge auditing from Marty or from Ralph via Skype?

    ML Tom

  120. martyrathbun09

    I agree with you that the heavy force implants are child’s play compared to clever trickery that gets you to agree seemingly self-determinedly.

  121. martyrathbun09

    This line of yours sums up quite well my view of “criticisms” of LRH out of context: “But who am I to cast stones? I’m not out fighting a war and I’m not under any pressure.)” I am probably more schooled in what it was he faced than anyone and recognize many of my “hackles” stem from that. So, there’s some context for my impatience with criticism out of context. From a problems of comparable magnitude perspective, my life has been one long day at the beach, all seashells and baloons, compared to what the old man withstood. And that, from my reality, is a plain fact. So, the “hackles” are more Flow 3 charge for me than anything else.

  122. Ah, thanks for the carification. I hear ya. There is one HCOB that I would highly recommend we all get our wits around,
    HCOB 9 June 1960. It explains “how” a thetan can “feel pain”.

    “An overt recoils upon one because one is already in a valence similar to that of the being against whom the overt is leveled.

    The mechanism is exposed. And as it is exposed, we find it is not needed since a being without valences is basically good. Only a being with valences has his overts recoil upon him. Only a being with valences commits overts harmful to others as he is behaving as he supposes the “evil” valence would behave but as no unvalenced being does.”

    It’s quite an eye-opener.

  123. WH, Well said. I love the way you handle ‘ego’. Love

  124. M,
    Hey, I was just tryin’ to horn in on your line of conversation and express this cog I had on the continuous effect/implant restim/obsessive agreement/hypnotic trance state of existence when one waits to experience time. So, if anybody’s going to be apologizing around here it’s me, to you. Putz.

  125. crashingupwards

    Tom. I agree with most of what your saying. You can tell by my position that I am not beating any drum for KSW. I was attracted to scientology as much for 4th dynamic reasons as any. The church spent decades threatening, sueing, black ops, etc on anyone who wanted to practice outside their economic control. Can you imagine where we would be today if all those independents and squirrells had not been treated as such. How much application of the tech and processes never happened because of this? Where would society be if had been allowed? I can’t say, no one can. But I think at this point in time, at this crossroads, we should be willing to grant anyone the space to do with the tech whatever they can. Some will disagree. But to what end? For what purpose? Where has protectionism of the subject brought us. I too would rather be in corpus cristi and i have a lot of confidence in what would happen there. But there is a bigger picture. We tried plan A, I am willing to allow plan B. Thats all.

  126. Glad you are out, I hope you inspire many more to come out.


  127. Marty,

    Gotcha. It’s easy to sit on the side, yapping; not so easy to be on the court in front of everyone playing the game. Interesting about the Flow 3 charge.


  128. Mr Jimmie,

    And I thought I was annoying. I think you just upchucked a a chunk of ham on my shoes.

    Man, it’s going to take me a couple of days to get my head around this.

    I wonder if the billionth of a second or any amount creates a gap that generates a degree of charge and solidity. If the being has established a valence in agreement with a present time continuum, then separates the two, that continuum acts as a terminal playing against the valence–which is also a terminal. You’ve got the conditions established for setting up a thin force field that plays continuously against the being.

    Predictable time streams are a favor we do for one another. It would be disconcerting to come home and find home was on another planet populated by talking ants, only to discover that tomorrow was really yesterday so dinosaurs have eaten all the hops, hence there couldn’t possibly be any beer in the refrigerator. Theta logic.

    Implants always trace back (not to be glib) to the laws and mechanics of agreement: that factor of awareness that makes and experiences reality.

    Not sure I get the meaning of “If it does, then by the theory of Advanced Procedures and Axioms YOU decided that no matter what implanted, continuously agreed upon hypnotic suggestion exists that you continuously agree to with your own created automaticities.”

    But a thetan is capable of multi-tasking and creating situations of “both” “either” “or.” He can simultaneously create two contradictory conditions. In other words, your attention can stop at the floor while also not reaching the floor, while passing through the floor, while operating in other dimensions that contain their own codes of matter, energy, space and time. A being can simultaneously create past present and future and have sufficient attention for each across several “universes.” That’s why we can have an engram in restimulation while doing the taxes while thinking about where to go on vacation this summer. You get super-imposition of time.

    As for getting back to the drawing board, I’m trying like crazy, but the damn thing is running ahead of me in the time stream and I just can’t catch up.



  129. Windhorse,

    That explains the bite marks on my leg in the morning–and I thought I was only dreaming. Damn that astral projection stuff, anyway!

    Yeah, I try not to argue and be right. I try to understand and increase my understanding rather than get involved in what I call “the tar baby effect.” The more you fight back, the more stuck you get.

    I don’t care about winning, just making conditions better.

    I was thinking about you and Buddhism. Some time back I ran an incident of sitting near a great thetan (on Earth) who was explaining principles which seemed to be those of Buddhism. I could see behind his expression an almost imperceptible consternation as he tried to communicate what he was experiencing. Those seated in front of him just had no clue and were completely mis-duplicating what he was saying. He caught my eye and this little theta comm passed between us: amused, he did a theta shrug and messaged, “what’re yah gonna do?” Meaning, things are what they are, and even when you try your best, the message often fails to get through.

    I could feel Ron’s frustration delivering the Class 8 lectures, how he was trying to drive the message home. It wasn’t anger, just tone forty intention. Hell, he had been trying to hammer home the message of “Standard Tech” since 1950.

    If these guys have been unable to get their message across, who am I to complain?


  130. Jim,

    You horny devil, you.

    You can horn in anytime. Like puppies at teats.


  131. Mikey,
    On the sentence, it is unwieldy. Try this, “If it does then you decided that, and, that is no matter what implanted, continuously agreed upon hypnotic suggestion exists that you continuously agree to with your own created automaticities.”

    This whole split second difference on time is from the 2nd ACC. Like you and the PDC’s in the 70’s, I’m taking a sentence at at time on this stuff because it is freakin’ outrageous!!!!

    Sorry about my bad sentences. I’m not taking the time to sort this out for consumption and for you, I know you can take upchucking every now and again.

  132. I agree with Tom 100%. However, there is some validity in Crashing’s argument too – mainly that threats, suits, attacks, suing as an MO may have been net counterproductive over the long term, at least as against squirreling.

    It doesn’t take a huge amount of observational ability to conclude that force is not always the best weapon to use when confronted with counterefforts.

    College courses in political science deal quite a bit with issues of authority & legitimacy. What constitutes a “legitimate” authority? These issues are at the forefront of news today vis a vis what is happening in Libya and other middle eastern countries.

    I am of the belief that KSW is hugely important in all respects. At least, IF one believes that life in this universe and on this planet has gone way off the rails, needs help, and that Scientology offers the first and only truly workable tech to reverse the downward spiral.

    But, IMO, by far the best – and probably only – way to KSW for real is by creating, having, and maintaining legitimate moral authority. To be such a respected Keeper of Technology that when you speak, people listen.

    As has been pointed out before, there have been long periods of time during which the upper orgs – and the CofS itself – had a great deal of legitimate moral authority – not primarily because they were feared, but because they were respected.

    Clearly the current CofM has long since lost its legitimacy. More and more people are waking up to that reality each day. Whether or not a “reformed” CofS, structured per LRH’s intent as laid out on, can recreate its legitimacy, is an open question.

    Regardless, iff a person or organization has legitimacy and respect, and then calls out someone as a squirrel or issues some sort of “alert” that so & so is misusing the tech on his or her public, the broad community will respect that opinion and essentially ostracize the offender & hopefully get them to clean up their act. At a minimum, alert the public to the danger.

    In short, we need a wider bridge, but not by tolerating alteration of a workable tech. We need to create that wider bridge by re-creating, re-establishing the legitimate moral authority of our organizations and practitioners.

  133. Publius,

    Personally I don’t think it has anything to do with authority legitimate or otherwise.

    Many who want to squirrel the tech like for example David Miscavige misinterpret KSW as some kind of authoritarian concept and it’s not.

    In my opinion what he is saying in so many words is we now have the correct technology and that we should apply *it* and not something else and avoid any temptation to do otherwise and that the only time we ever got into trouble organizationally was when we did something else like say the “Golden Age of Tech” instead of applying Standard Scientology.

    To me that’s just basic common sense.

    Also the reason for Orgs especially the HGC which is why they are called Hubbard *Guidance* Centers was to *guide* the field towards standard application.

    Not *force* them to be standard.

    If you read the RED ‘Superior Org Image’ you will see that this is more a PR function than an ethics action.

    If there is anyone who has a button on *authority* it is the squirrels who demand the “right” to squirrel the tech or those who because they claim the *authority* and feel they have some divine “right” to alter the tech like the current coup holding the organization hostage.

    In both cases they have failed to apply Standard Scientology and want all of us to grant them the “right” to do something else.

    In other words they want either some kind of group agreement or authority saying it’s okay that they can mix power processes with Satanism, or do evaluative group processing sessions seminars where they lock individuals into the room for several hours with no means of escape or have some “auditor” “auditing” over the phone uses their responses on the meter to supposedly “audit” your case or run altered R6 on cases that can’t even run a light objective process or develop a series of so called “drills” that auditors are forced to apply instead of the advices given their HCOBs.

    I mean a squirrel’s a squirrel whether they are running the ‘Process Church’, doing an EST or Landmark seminar, running R3X or Amprinistic techniques or have been legitimized by the IRS as a Tax Exempt organization calling itself the “Church of Scientology”.

    There is really no difference save for the fact that the latter has full Government approval to squirrel the tech and can use any legal means at their disposal to force others to squirrel the tech in their own special way.

    So much for “legitimacy” and fuck “authority”.

    Many of us who apply Standard Tech apply it because we know it works and as Ron says in “Safeguarding Technology” it may not be perfect but it *works* and I haven’t seen anything “developed” by these squirrels that works as well and believe me I’ve seen a lot of squirrel tech having worked in the “Squirrels Busters” unit even for a short time to last several life times.

    So trust me after seeing all these screwed up cases that have been screwed up by all these recent inventions and this ostensible “perfection” of the tech ostensibly designed to make the “perfect” auditor sort of like Himmler’s SS program was designed to make the “perfect” Aryan I can say with total certainty that I’d never grant anyone the so called “right” to squirrel the tech and anyone auditing me or auditing for me would be getting the deep dark 6 with their first R3X command because *I* wouldn’t allow it personally.

    As far as I’m concerned they can either go somewhere else and do what they call “auditing” or audit PCs and Pre OTs by the book which means those technical procedures contained in the HCOBs.

    So these guys who want to squirrel can squirrel to their hearts content can squirrel all they want on their time and their own dime and not mine.

    That doesn’t mean that I have to go into agreement with them or endorse them or sprinkle them with some kind of Holy Water and say be “squirrelly and multiply” or whatever.

    Also above this I feel no obligation to be part of an Organization that basically does the same thing yet worse than any other mainstream squirrel uses their ill begotten legitimacy and authority to demand that I must squirrel only their way.

    I say fuck ’em all.

    If they want the “right” basically meaning my approval to squirrel they can go somewhere else to get it.

  134. RJ, I agree with everything you said here. I must have failed to adequately convey what I meant by “authority” & “legitimacy”. It has nothing to do with handing out licenses or granting permission to squirrel. Quite the contrary. What I meant was, to the degree a practitioner of the tech (whether an individual or organization) adheres to and applies Standard Tech is the degree to which they will acquire the respect of the field and public. That’s what I meant by “moral authority”. It’s something that can only be acquired by adhering to the tech and getting results.

  135. Very well said Publius.

  136. One of those who see,

    After confessing to using the wrong word “implant,” I caught this comment of yours. Think of it as reality assistance. You want someone to come in and design your house, but you’re just not that aesthetic or clever. So, the designer comes in, shows you some plans, arranges for a crew to come in, and after a while, you’ve got the living room you’ve always wanted. Something fantastic beyond your wildest dreams. Something to be proud of.

    Or the garden. Or whatever.

    Early on, not every being was especially skilled at creating his own universe. Some beings were making these elaborate universes flowing with aesthetics and excitement and pop! Others were creating these really drab, simplistic universes that were really crude. Think about driving around looking at houses to find styles you like. You might contact the architect or builder and see if you can get a similar house built on a lot you own.

    It’s not done by overwhelm or force or anything other than choice. But, you might need some help in making your universe or mind or whatever just the way you’d like it to be.

    As the bar rose on creation, those with less aesthetic ability just wanted help.

    And the whole thing blossomed from there. And spiraled out of hand. Got to the point where committees were deciding what was acceptable and not acceptable.

    Curious became desire became enforce became inhibit. So, the stuff you reference, comes low on the scale, and later on the track.

    And those enforcing or inhibiting often did so because of a misguided sense of “the greatest good.” What will benefit the group?


  137. Jim,

    Thanks for the clarification. Gotcha.

    Tom referenced an HCOB about overts. I got to thinking about what mechanics were necessary for two terminals to create a flow against one another. The similarity of composition. The necessity to be operating in the same space. Somehow, those terminals have to operate in shared space: even if they are operating in parallel or distinct dimensions, the flow requires that shared link.

    Much like an engram, which exists in its own space and time, somehow can impinge on physical universe space. Just like an “entity” can operate in its own space and time, yet impinge on the body. A shared space exists, overlapping.

    And, when you differentiate those spaces, the flow stops. Each element is placed in its distinct space and time, rather than being confused as existing in the same space and time.

    Such as your upchuck will land on your own shoes rather than mine if you don’t fucking breech my dimensionality and make me confuse the ham chunks from your creation with those of mine.

    Damn. I think I’ll go make a sandwich.


  138. Robert Earle

    Hi Ingrid it is nice to see you here. I just found Marty’s site a few days ago and been bringing myself up to speeed searching the prior posts. I admire your persistence . I do apreciate the assistence you were in handling some pcs for me in Denver. Best of luck to you with your decision to drop the CI off your lines and continue to deliver the tech without the added distractions , arbitraries, dev-t, complexities ,detours ,road blocks,etc as developed , originated and implimented by Miscabbage.(Source of illogical and unworkable tech ethics and admin.) You are a most welcome addition here and fit the description of what the source of the correct tech refered to when he said what he thought about auditors. Bob

  139. Pingback: Ziba Feulner – OT VIII | Der Treffpunkt

  140. Pingback: Auszugsweise Liste von Independent Scientologen | Independent for Life

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