Janet Reitman: “Change or Die.”

The following is the conclusion of the interview that Editor in Chief of the Village Voice conducted with Janet Reitman, author of the new book Inside Scientology:

If the celebrities are being more cautious, it’s fascinating to see the new “Independent Scientology” movement flourishing as former high-level members like Marty Rathbun rebel against Miscavige’s rule.

“Scientology is a very doctrinaire church, way beyond Catholicism. I mean a really all-encompassing, all-demanding, highly judgmental, cripplingly controlling, organization. And these Independents are saying, ‘Fuck the organization, we’re just going to go do this on our own, we’re going to pay a lot less money for it because really, this stuff should be free. And we’re going to live better lives.

“To me, that’s really religion. If you can just seek to better your life and the lives of those around you, without taking advantage of those around you, more power to you.”

Like me, Reitman is fascinated with Rathbun’s blog, where he defies Miscavige’s rule and attracts more and more Independents.

“I think Marty is so threatening to Miscavige because he’s like a Martin Luther. He’s saying, look, there’s an alternative way.”

And as for Scientology itself, under Miscavige?

“I think they’re going to have to change or die.”

I have never spoken Janet Reitman.  She came to these conclusions upon interviewing dozens of Scientologists, in and out of the church, and investigating the subject for two years.   The full interview can be found at:


240 responses to “Janet Reitman: “Change or Die.”

  1. scilonschools

    “And as for Scientology itself, under Miscavige?
    “I think they’re going to have to change or die.””

    Never a truer word spoken!!!!!!!

  2. I cannot wait to read her book! I wonder if there will be PIs at the major retailers either buying all the books, or photgaphing anyone who buys it.

  3. Marty,

    I for one did communicate with her via email. I’m glad you are being recognized as the sane, rational voice of those who seek truth amongst the mess that David Miscavige has created.

    I hope her book has an impact.

  4. So did Janet make it to the bottom half of the do not call list yet?

  5. I will be buying and reading Janet’s new book “Inside Scientology”. Having been a Scientologist for forty years, I am very interested in what she has to say.

  6. 🙂 LMAO!

  7. Love this! Short & Sweet – Simple Truth.

  8. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Bryan. But I don’t think that is the point. Independent Scientology has been very clearly defined and recognized by the person who has done perhaps the most thorough, objective study on the matter ever. Further, the subject of Scientology has been very clearly differentiated from Radical Corporate Scientology. While Ms. Reitman’s conclusion, “change or die”, is a politic, fair-minded statement, if you read the entire interview you will note – that even while she has not clearly stated it – she has concluded the church of Scientology is dead. She uses the term “fundamentalist” where I use the term “radical.” She clearly recognizes that Miscavige is incapable of changing it because the “fundamentalist”, read LITERAL (1.1’s can be nothing other than that), is incapable of evolving, he cannot correct. It is clearly up to us to carry the torch by continuing to, and never forgetting to, restore HUMANITY to the subject.

  9. Though I have not read her book yet, from Janet’s comments to Tony Ortega, she seems to have an intelligent and well informed overview of the subject, especially for someone who has no subjective experience with the tech.

    I appreciate her gracious comments about me to the Village Voice, even though I did not agree to help her with her book. My opinion of her has raised dramatically (also for attributing “vulture culture” to me in the book 🙂 ).

    “Change opr die” is a very appropriate summation. Though I personally believe its too late — as I commented in an earlier response, the Church of Miscavige is so riddled with false data, false terminals and false purposes that it is incapable of being resurrected.

  10. Re: “Change or Die”

    That statement is not hyperbole. As I have written earlier, the tragic fact is that the number of people in the U.S. who claim to be Scientologists has declined from 50,000 to approximately 25,000 between roughly 2001 and 2009.* Presuming this trend continued (and, it likely accelerated), the number now is likely lower.

    The number tells only half of the story. Of those 25,000 people who are Scientologists, a good number are likely independent (but not yet associated with this blog). That is, they use the Tech, but want to have nothing to do with the Organization, as run by the Miscavige Administration.

    Thousands of people of goodwill, such as those on this blog, labored day and night for the betterment of man, as SO, Org, and Mission staff. The extremely beneficial activities we built with LRH are being unmocked by David Miscavige’s replacement of Scientology Tech with punishment drive, psychiatric tech.

    In spite of the above “incredible,” we know that our work, under LRH, was good and our intention was correct.

    Marty, Mike, Jim Logan, Les and Anita, and many others are not Q&Aing and refuse to be diverted from the Great Mission:




    *source: American Religious Self-identification Survey by the City University of New York; The number was corroborated by a separate study by the PEW Foundation.

  11. What Marty said.

  12. Change or die. It looks like die to me because per the data in the HCOB “Service Facsimiles” there is not going to be any changing, there is only going to be “Being Right” all the way to death.

    ML Tom

  13. Defender of Theta

    Hello Everyone!
    Hello Les and Anita!

    Though I have just registered, I have been following this blog for a long time. Though I have not been public, I have been trying to do my part to help the free practice of unaltered Scientology.

    Special thanks to Marty, Mosey, Mike, Helen Chen, Jim Logan, Les and Anita, etc. for your dedication to LRH’s vision and your refusal to Q&A. I am here to do what I can to help.

    Frederick Jones

  14. martyrathbun09

    Yo, Frederick – Hello!

  15. Hi Frederick! Welcome to the land of the free and home of the brave!

  16. See? Those numbers look correct. And your assumption of them actually being less is true from my observation as well. By these stats alone, the “church” IS dead. David would get more benefit out of shouting at an ashtray vs. beating the dead horse that has become his “church.”

    There is no reversal of this spiral, because it would actually take application of some Standard Tech to bring about such a reversal. And David is the last person in the world that would authorize the TRUE use of Tech.

    Change or Die. She’s being optomistic.
    It’s really more like “Did not change: Dead.”

    The next couple of “events” will be very, very telling. And probably some of the saddest things you would ever see.

  17. Brian Culkin

    “Movin on up” is the datum of comparable magnitude of Luther’s 95 Thesis.

    Brilliant recognition by Reitman.

    “Change or Die”

    This is basic Scientology and the cycle of Action. This is covered in detail in the PDC’s.

    Congrats to all the Indies



  18. Yvonne Schick

    Congratulations, Frederick. Welcome to life among the free. Thank you for the help you have been giving. ML, Yvonne

  19. “Change or Die”…….Dead, Dead, Dead, Dead. This contributes to the Mass Exodus!

  20. Yvonne Schick

    I’ve heard that this year there will be only two Maiden Voyage events shown at the orgs. In the past, there were four, then as I recall, last year it was reduced to three. What do you want to bet that they have discontinued the LRH Source event. They probably can no longer afford to take the risk of giving OT Achievement awards for fear the “Achiever” show up the next month on Marty’s blog with an announcement they are out. They were mostly a sham anyway. My guess is the two events will be Ideal Orgs and IAS. The only topics of interest to DM and they open the door for those to be reg events.

  21. Frederick

    Hi. Glad you could come out and play with us.
    It is a worthy game, and actually a game we cannot lose.


    Eric S

  22. Hey Frederick,
    Nice to have you here with us.

    (Michael, who posts as Once Upon A Time, his fingernails are all on the wrong fingers. Other than that he’s a pretty astute guy, sort of.)

  23. Brian,
    And the Actual Cycle of Action, with Create Counter-Create, Cease Creation and Nothing for DM’s Reverse Scientology Scam.

    Looking forward to a nice future and all that is newly Created.

  24. Yvonne: That is what is known as an educated guess — and I would put my money on your crystal ball. Your reasoning is flawless.

  25. Janet’s book is available through Amazon and has been for a while. I’m half way through it. Very well written. Very good book!

  26. Great article. I look forward to reading her book and see what she has to say. The world is changing, but Scientology is still stuck in the past. It IS a fundamentalist organization. Her observation about the lack of education of young people is spot on. I agree that it is a waste. It traps these young people in the CofS. They just don’t have the experience or knowledge or are aware of resources needed to survive outside the bubble of the Church or recognize abuses and violations of human and civil rights within the Church that presently are going on around them or to them.

  27. JAMES,

  28. I am glad her book is not just another “critique” on Scientology. The commentary on the existance and expansion of the independent field, the reasons for it, etc, make this book a good thing and I am glad it is out there.

    How utterly sad that an organization like the Church, which was organized in part to keep the Tech pure, has allowed it to degrade to the point where an independent field is now vital for the Tech to remain unchanged.


  29. Yes – she noticed the NCG in Miscavige – “Because nothing changes in Scientology.”

    Change or die? There is no change. So, the church is dead.

  30. In the Village Voice interview, Janet Reitman is quoted to have said ;

    “If you all come out and use your names, they can’t come after you. But if you do this silently, then they can intimidate you and no one will come to your defense because no one knows who you are.”

    A very astute observation on her part.

    Eric S

  31. simonbolivar

    True, very true

  32. SaveTheTech

    Yes, Marty, “restore the HUMANITY to the subject” which would make it a true religious practice… again. But, independently practiced this time.

  33. Mark Fisher

    “Change or Die.”

    That statement is similar to the motto for the state of New Hampshire which is “Live Free or Die” which I like to think the independent movement is doing – living free!!

    Mike I am glad your opinion of Janet Reitman has increased. I found her to be very intelligent, very even handed and not biased at all in the many hours of conversation we had 4 years ago and then via phone calls and emails over the past 4 years.

    I highly recommend the book. She tells the story and gets most of it correct, while doing something many writers don’t do – listing out her sources and references in detail – just like an excellent verification package for a good Data Series evaluation.

    She also gives the facts without coloring them one way or the other. She lets the reader decide.

  34. Rory Medford

    DM is the most egotistical man I have ever seen. He has one thing in mind, MONEY MONEY MONEY and how to extract it from members. EVERY move he makes is MONEY motivated. He lives and dies by the almighty buck.

    He is a bad evil dude!!

    He is bad for SCN.

    MEST man must go!

  35. BRILLIANT! Very well said, indeed.

    Marty, you need to create a bannner at the top of the blog with that quote in it. And any equivilant LRH quote to accompany it as well. I really think that such a banner, in their closeted faces everytime they commit the overt of looking at this blog would only force their hand to GET OUT IN THE OPEN! It’s such common sense, it would pretty much shame them into ending the facade once and for all.

  36. positive press is positive and good things happen to good people. It is nice to hear about the Indy movment, in a positive mannor, from a independant third party.

  37. John Fennessey

    Thats right Brian. Nothing stays the same. The church will follow the same rule and either expand or contract. And right now their statistical membership downtrend is in Power and they are applying the power formula to those actions which created that trend. The exodus will grow in numbers as certain as night follows day.
    The good news for all is that with the Independent field growing in service delivery and other ways, those leaving will not have to abandon the practice, become disconnected from a scientology 3D and go off by themselves. Its a rescue breath for the practice of scientology, and not a moment too soon.

  38. For those of you with e-book readers, the opening of the book is available as a sample on various sites, e.g. iBooks. Fun and interesting read.

  39. Tom Gallagher (TEG)

    The only ‘change’ in the Cult of Miscavige is the Pope on a Box’s disposable “I’m a Big Boy Now!” diapers.

  40. one of those who see

    So well said Marty!
    This part should be in big, bold letters “It is clearly up to us to carry the torch by continuing to, and never forgetting to, restore HUMANITY to the subject.”

  41. martyrathbun09


  42. First Principle

    It occurs to me that one of the reasons that Miscavige bothers you is that he hopes it will delay the publishing of your book, for which many of us are waiting! I’m sure you know how important it is, to so many of us, that your book does get written and published.

  43. Hi Fredrick,

    So, a name finally goes to the communication. I’m thrilled.

    If you have a few minutes, email me backlines. I have a couple of questions for you.

  44. Incredible article. And may I say again, thank you to Marty, Mosey, Mike, Christie and all the others who are actively involved with this blog and the independent movement.

    Because of the work here (and behind the scenes) , I had yet another fabulous phone call with someone who was my very best friend when I was at the Base. We did a mission or two together and just howled recounting our tribulations!! (it’s been over 21 years since we’ve spoken)

    As for Janet Reitman — how astute she is in noticing that she was paraded all over town and back, for a good 12 hours, suffering from jet lag. Now how would she have done on a two meals of beans and rice?

    SO members, staff and even public are given ALMOST no space and without space, no one any longer has a mind that is free to differentiate – instead it’s a solid block of jammed pictures.

    I am looking forward to getting my copy — ordered from Amazon a few days ago.


  45. Bozz

    For myself, I tend to distance myself from “shame, blame and regret”, and the use of force in dealing with other beings.
    I prefer understanding and encouragement, and a sense of pride, and the nurturing of “the belief in one’s own honor, and good reason”.

    Eric S

  46. I have nothing but props (respect) for Janet, and her book. Miscavige’s involvement in the McPherson debacle is fully covered for the world to see.
    And guess what? No lawsuits. No libel suits.

    Thank you to all that contributed!

  47. First Principle:

    This blog is Marty’s book. Read even partially, it is an expose on Miscavige and the corruption he has wrought within the church. Many on this blog have also contributed their voices and stories to help flush out the full scope of events over the past several decades of the Miscavige debacle.

    Not to take anything away from any book you may publish Marty, as I am certain there are pieces you are holding back.

    Janet’s book itself is evidence of a deeply systemic and lingering problem within the church else there would be nothing to write about.

    Naturally church members will not be allowed to read this book and will be told it is another attack due to the impending opening of the Super Power Building and anticipated release of OT IX. I don’t seem to be able to find that LRH reference to support that, funny how that is.

  48. Welcome Federick!

  49. Cowboy Poet

    “And these Independents are saying, ‘Fuck the organization, we’re just going to go do this on our own, we’re going to pay a lot less money for it because really, this stuff should be free. And we’re going to live better lives.”

    Now, especially considering the balance of the paragraph, if you were considering the potentiality of Scientology for yourself, where would you seek consultation or services?

  50. Expelled 4 Life

    I am about a third of the way through the book; mid the “DM” chapter. The portrait that is painted of DM reflects what we have all been reading for the past two plus years. So far from what I have read the narrative of what happened in the Church over the past 20+ years parallels what I have pieced together on my own. However I don’t l know if many on this blog will be in agreement with how Ron is portrayed from his early years through the 1960s and right up until 1986. It’s not particularly flattering IMHO.

  51. More communication not less, is biting hard at those who truly have something to hide. Some interesting reading soon I see = good stuff.
    Had one of those horrible dark sort of realisations concerning the cultists the other day after reading an excellent reference on this blog concerning how lying differentiates between controlling someone rather than leading by dealing in truth. To lead someone with truth unschackles that someone. Lying immediately introduces a control factor or agenda. But the common denominator of all the bullshit floating around about the association of “Scientology” with Miscaviage is Bridge Denial. Simple obvious statement? Maybe… but sitting on the fence with the real tech or procrastinating, or maybe the classic, nothing works anyway or one of its many variations such as ‘other fish to fry’ or its close ally, doing nothing, all points in the same direction – no Bridge.
    One can be as busy as hell and have no time or so intrenched in apathy on the subject of case gain it all drops from awareness, but it all still results in, no Bridge.
    I often wondered why ‘Wait’ was so low of the Tone Scale, I don’t anymore, it’s the pits, it equals no Bridge too.
    Differentiation, Assocation & Identification. Logic comes in with Association but boy it covers a very broad area and the Logic of the cultist is so down the scale & sucks so bad there’s not only no Bridge there, there’s a false one built with lies.

    “Well, they started on the road to truth and they never made the passage. and they’re something like a ship wrecked ship. They’re high and dry on that reef and they’re never gonna go no further. Having gone that distance, it wrecked them. This in itself, is soul chilling.” LRH

    This Independent movement is a good thing.

  52. Joy Graysen

    Amen, Brother!!! We SHALL rise above!!!

  53. Sapere Aude


    Welcome to the world of the sane and rational. Here we get to think for ourselves and also we are free to recognize the inherent goodness in all. You have made the correct choice – we are the winning team and in the end we will still be here and still be communicating. VWD!

  54. Expelled 4 Life

    Village Voice: Milton Katselas Pleads With Scientology After Grant Cardone’s Attack: A Church Jihad?
    All this is like watching a car accident in slow motion. What a waste.

  55. The funny thing is mest means menure in dutch

  56. It is about time someone noticed the NCG factor of DM and his “lookalikes”.

    PROVING, that the church’s methods are not only unacceptable to people that have been in the church a very long time, but the general public as well does not find them to their liking. With that said…more power to anyone that uses LRH tech the way it was meant to be used.


  57. 🙂

  58. +1


  59. Sapere Aude

    Change or die – is also a summation of why the Independent movement. We are the change so the subject does not die. The current structure under DM is not allowed to change. LRH expected change. The third dynamic is the group agreement. The Independent group has created and allowed a new agreement – this is the change. The old agreement can either recognize the validity of the Independent movement of it will die. DM may not be able to ever change but the senior SO staff, OSA staff etc have also this same choice. They individually must change or go down with the sinking ship.

    LRH is quite clear on this. HCOPL 9 Nov 68 Revised 15 Oct 85 Standard Admin:

    “The best organization is one which has a thetan over it, methods of working out its problems, basic actions and a good desirable product. It adapts itself to its environment or surroundings or conditions of operation so as to expand to greater or lesser degree.

    Such an organization must have a clear-cut purpose and fill a definite need in order to survive.

    Its services must be more valuable than what it costs to produce or furnish these services.

    It must, to remain healthy, obtain more potential than it spends. For “potential” can be ready money or power or even strength.

    Where an organization violates these very fundamental things, it sickens and will eventually perish.

    For example, a government of a country can violate one or more of the above simple ideas and eventually cease to exist. Some governments are really dead for a very long time before the fact is discovered.

    Such is the persistence and power of a once-strong organization that it can continue for a very long while, feeding inward on itself. It gradually contracts and eventually becomes a memory only.” (End of LRH quote)

    — The above shows the exact sequence of the current structure and what it is doing. Other than the fixation of obtaining money “potential” and even this is done at the cost of destroying all other valid exchange activities – current church operations are doing all the things LRH says not to do and especially no “adaptation” to “its environment or surroundings or conditions of operation” are allowed or even allowed to be considered.

    The Independent movement is applying the above AND the rest of the PL wherein LRH states:

    “Thus when you see an organization begin to contract, if it is to be salvaged, it must be stripped back to basics quickly, its form simplified, its purpose clarified and the important services it can render greatly intensified and the cost of rendering them greatly reduced. This formula intelligently applied even to a dead government could revive it.

    Lest we go too quickly in the single sentence above and the earlier basics mentioned we have the whole “secret” or either reviving an old or founding a new organization.” (End of LRH quote)

    Only the Independent, not under the thumb of insane present time orders only, can apply the concepts of this PL. We can adapt. We have purpose, power and strength. We are not working on wrong why’s or personal gain. We are the future third dynamic of Scientology. The future form may be different than today – but the future group forwarding and using LRH technology know as Scientology will be quite different than the current “church” structure. Our products will be free beings with their integrity intact, working with the basic goodness inherent in all!

  60. Bozz,
    I understand the sentiment and the eagerness to get the ship underway full sail once again (if you will excuse the metaphor). Marty, Mike and others have born the brunt of the effort to subdue and shut up this movement, and I suppose that that is not fair. We express our gratitude, but they must endure the harassment day in, day out.

    However, such a banner would probably drive off many people who are just beginning to look. What I’ve liked about Marty’s blog is that it has been a place to communicate, and it has served as a stepping stone. For many, it has been a starting place to voice questions, to share an opinion or a story or a concern, to weigh evidence. It is a place for people to start informing themselves without bias or duress and make decisions as to their own lives…greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics AND (my favorite) contemplation of optimum survival.

    I for one would not have written a single thing had such a banner been posted. I would not have been interested in embroiling myself in the discussion. I would not have bothered reading much. Furthermore, I am not looking to “join” a group, but I do have viewpoints and opinions and data.

    Had there been such a banner I would have continued my own life without involvement in this, happily using what I have learned and gained from LRH, enjoying my friends and family, my job and my activities, and patiently – VERY patiently – waiting for you-know-who to reveal himself for what he is. Now at last here are others confirming with hard data my long term observations, so I support this exposure of truth and this and other forums for discussion!

    The reason I chose this path is complex and personal, but it is reasoned. I did not facilitate DM getting to this position of power. I will help expose his betrayal of LRH, the out-tech, the suppression, the best I can, but please don’t ask me to join this group or that group right now “or else.” That’s not a game I want to play, and I think that is divisive and just what DM wants.

    I hope Marty will continue to allow this to be a free forum and welcome an open flow of opinions and communication. I think more will thus LOOK and see the light and take individual and personal action that will cumulatively help ensure LRH’s gifts are transferred, intact, to ourselves and to the future.


  61. What pleased me the most while reading the comments is that nobody stressed the fact that Reitman compared you to Martin luther. It’s a living proof that you, and the independents are in valence and in PT. What the F… with comparisons! Yes, it’s important what we are doing now, but we are doing it with humility, selflessness, Marty and Mike too. Thanks all for this simplicity, it’s power!

  62. Cowboy Poet

    “Now how would she have done on a two meals of beans and rice?”

    Two??? That’s a bit generous and out of character, don’t you think?

  63. OMG — that Grant Cardone is a menace to society. He is the poster child for sanctimonious, vain, self-important nobodies who try to act like “tough guy”… It really is sickening.

    Cardone’s letter to Milton Katselas should be made into a poster and pinned up in all orgs with a headline: “THE WORK OF A DEDICATED MISCAVOLOGIST.”

    Wonder who is worrying about the “Sniper on the Roof” now, eh pal?

    I’m sure all this excellent publicity you are getting is going over real well with National Geographic.

  64. #1 Best seller in Scientology category on Amazon !
    In the top 5 best sellers in Scientology Category, 4 of them are whistleblowing books on the ABUSE within the the Church.

    Larry Wright, the journalist who wrote the New Yorker article ~~ his book is next.

  65. Grant Cardone is not a staff member, correct? He’s a tool (see Urban Dictionary) and maybe just trying to “bring it” and impress, but this appears retaliatory in nature. I assume that we don’t know the whole story.

  66. “See how injustice and bad faith ever recoil upon those who are guilty of them.” Napoleon Bonaparte

  67. No, Grant is not a staff member. He is the offspring of DM and Tom Cruise. They mated and this arrived:

    “See how injustice and bad faith ever recoil upon those who are guilty of them.” Napoleon Bonaparte

  68. The collapse of the Cult began to hyper-accelerate in 2005 when COB threw away Tom Cruise’s movie star career in an extravagantly disastrous and ill-advised war PR war against Psychiatry. It has all been downhill from there for “David Mc Dog’s Breakfast” and his inner circle of rampant insanity.

    I have been following and narrating the collapse of CoS since 2005 on OCMB. My key thread titles show the progression from a spiritual and cultural point of view:

    10/2005: The Critics Have Reached Critical Mass
    04/2006: We Are Witnessing the Destruction of Scientology
    05/2006: Insurrection and the Underground Railroad in Scientology
    01/2007: Scientology’s 2007 New Years Eve Event
    07/2007: Miscavigology: The New Scientology
    09/2007: The Beginning of the End for Scientology
    09/2007: BFG and Little Bear Victor Have Begun the Quiet Revolution
    11/2007: The Divergence Has Occurred
    03/2008: We Have Entered the Edge of the Debris Field
    03/2008: The Rebel Alliance Forms Within Scientology
    04/2008: The Karmic Vortex: The Hyper-Acceleration of Events
    05/2008: Why Does David Miscavige Refuse to Speak Publicly?
    05/2009: The Concept of the “Org” is Dead
    07/2009: The Karmic Vortex II
    06/2009: Scientology’s Summer of Cognitive Dissonance
    10/2009: Shadowmen LLC Exit Strategy
    10/2009: The Organic Dissolution of the Church of Scientology
    10/2009: The Collapse of the State of Operating Thetan
    01/2010: The Scientology Diaspora
    10/2010: The Great Awakening
    10/2010: The Big Crack in the Scientology Snow Globe World
    10/2010: The Third Tsunami

    As I see it, there are now only 3-4 more significant events needed to complete the sequence in which CoS collapses in its present form.


  69. You are a incrdible force of nature. You are infinitly aproaching “God”as Spinoza defined and Einstein agreed on.
    You remind me of the dutch Singer Anouk

  70. Dear Grant and DM, I know you are reading this. This is Milton channeling through the oracle. You would have to be blind not to see the effect your actions have had on your organisation’s statistics, with so many “faithful” leaving you. If you ever feel the group of people you once had influence with are shunning you, I’m your man.

  71. +1

  72. I was surprised (I’m not sure why) when she compared Marty to Martin Luther (first name fits, too), but it is a worthy comparison. Luther’s movement was enabled by the Gutenberg press which put the Bible into the hands of the common man who no longer had to depend on interpretation by the clergy. The internet has done virtually the same thing. Only difference is that Catholicism ruled every aspect of Europe down to each and every rabbit (cats were killed as enemies of the Church). DM does not rule any continents, only every aspect of the lives of Scientologists and their pets (if needed). DM’s “cats” are independent creatures who will not be controlled (just like cats). Another difference between Marty and Luther is that Luther was ex-communicated. I don’t think Marty has been formally ex-communicated. In fact, I don’t think DM’s realm ex-communicates anybody. It is a higher degree of ethics than an SP declare as you can never come back. I think by not ex-communicating people, he thinks he still rules over them. DM should be ex-communicated himself. It is funny what’s happening. Years ago, the press took Scientology down by lying about it. Now, in order to bring “Scientology” down, they are going to have to tell the truth about it IF they want to take it down. Books help but they are not legal action. The seed the field however.

  73. Scott Campbell

    Congratulations Marty,

    The thing that is most telling to me regarding Reitman’s new book and Ortega’s “fascination” is that you (Marty) have become a modern pop-culture icon on the basis of “religious reformation”. Myriad media outlets now look to you as the sounding board for the Independent’s perspective on the subject of Scientology.

    I particularly liked this quote from the interview: “And these Independents are saying, ‘Fuck the organization, we’re just going to go do this on our own, we’re going to pay a lot less money for it because really, this stuff should be free. And we’re going to live better lives.”

    The fact that you and your blog have become the bellwether for the present and future of Scientology indicates that you are on the right track. I perceive that in this we are gaining respect and that others are once again recognizing the validity of Scientology technology.

    All I can say is: GOOD JOB, SIR! And I’ll continue to flow you power as long as you continue speaking truth to power.

  74. Great quote SA,

    We as Independents have a postulated future and, as you say, we easily adapt. We are essentially Fabian – and that’s a very hard state to suppress or destroy. It is invisibility and constant alertness and moves quickly without being noticed until the desired effect is produced. Untouchable.

    On the other hand, Miscavige and his minions react to present time situations without the slightest thought of the consequences – the intention being ‘to destroy’ anyone who voices an outpoint, produces facts contrary to their group think, or simply has a difference of opinion. Reactions are ‘on the fly’ with no forethought.

    Truth will stand, more lies will be exposed, and all will be well again – and at the rate of the exodus we are witnessing, sooner than later it seems.

  75. Cured Robot

    Some comments from an economist I’ve followed for 2 decades, although disrelated (as it has to do with politics and economics), are nevertheless apropo to the current movement:

    “There are individuals who truly mean well and remain sufficiently independent which is the key. They are the minority, but they may be our only hope. For you see, when the shit-hits-the-fan, they may be the people who are able to step forward with a viable plan.

    “No matter what anybody says or what evidence is gathered, these extremists (OSA) will never be persuaded to change their mind. Reason and intelligent conversation are lost on these types of people. Keep in mind that elections are won with only about 10% of the population swinging back and forth between the left and right. That is scary. For the level of independent thinkers is quite low.

    “So as elections appear around the world, look for those individuals who will have the courage to stand up to those Party Bosses who dictate to the rank file. We need non-party drones in office to perhaps do the right thing. This is not a time for Party Politics. To save tomorrow, we need desperately unbiased politicians who will make decisions for themselves. Even if their decision is wrong, the key is independent thought.

    Click to access The%20Search%20for%20Intelligent%20Life%2006-18-2011.pdf

  76. Sam honey, I know for sure I am going to double check on that one sweetheart.



  77. Joy Graysen

    You are an amazing Crusader Karen! Thank you for my copy of the book!!! You ROCK!!! I am reading it now!

  78. I haven’t read the book yet, but this is my biggest problem with attempts at portraying LRH’s life — by not appreciating Ron’s underlying philosophy, the author invariably misses the deeper context and relative importances of the life and times of L. Ron Hubbard.

    I can’t wait for the day when someone who truly appreciates and understands LRH’s philosophy, also writes the definitive and fully balanced biography.

  79. Joy Graysen

    I found Janet Reitman in FB and gave her a gigantic acknowledgment! What a courageous, intelligent woman.

  80. Margaret: You hit the nail on the head.

    I am reading her book now, and the difficulies for anyone trying to tell the story of LRH’s life without understanding and paralleling the developments of Scientology are really insurmountable. From what I have read so far she generally tries to tell the story using first hand accounts of others, but those first hand accounts omit the real story. For example, based on snippets from correspondence between LRH and Helen O’Brien, she concludes (as have many others before her) that Scientology becoming a religion was for tax and business reasons. Omitted is any mention of the chronology of research and the discovery of theta and the nature of the spiritual being that occurred before this even became a subject of discussion or the first church was incorporated. It is easy to conclude that it was all business and tax based on the sources and facts she relied on. But this is the smaller story of LRH’s life, the development of Scientology is what truly defines him, not whether he lived at Jack Parson’s House, had a good or bad war record, was not divorced when he married someone else or any of the other facts or exaggerations about his interesting life.

    I do believe for the most part she generally has her historical facts about LRH fairly correct. It is not the hagiography the church tries to peddle, and while she often describe LRH as charismatic and larger than life, she also repeatedly says he was a storyteller/exaggerator/liar about his accomplishments. But to my mind, his war record etc doesnt matter. His real accomplishments are in his books, lectures and HCOB/PLs. There’s no exaggeration or storytelling there, they are what they are and they are all there for the world to see. That is what tells the story of the man. And THAT is a fascinating story.

    I’ve only read the first 50 pages, but what struck me about it is exactly what you noted.

  81. Sapere:

    You have a very deep trustful way in you statement here.

    Yes, I agree, the current church under DM does not allow for any change while at the same time does not permit the tech to be freely used by anyone wishing to better themselves and the lives of those around them.

    Perhaps there will come a time when it will be illegal, if laws change that way, for any “religion” to make and keep its true beliefs confidential and classified from even the highest most highly trained governments.

    When I was in Scientology, I was not able to answer many people’s questions regarding my abilities to communicate and do other things because the “church did not allow it”. That information is not to be discussed. Yet, this information is what was keeping many people I lived and loved with from understanding life better and achieving what they wanted.

    Outside of Scientology now for quite some time, I am pleased when people ask me, I answer them freely. It is actually quite funny to see people’s responses when one explains something such as an implant to a newer person. Yet, if I had been in the church at the time, I would have been terrified that my discussing anything I may have learned that I was ordered not to speak about would get me declared or have the GO or OSA tracking me down.

    Thank you for bringing this point out in the open.

  82. Scott Campbell

    Excellent analysis and salient quotes, SA. I agree with you on all points.

    The profound insight that LRH had into the underlying “reasons why” regarding beings and their interaction with each other boggles the mind.
    No one could deny the truth of what LRH says in this PL.

    Thank you for reminding us of it.

    L, Scott

  83. Scott Campbell

    For the church perhaps…

  84. Scott Campbell

    Hey Frederick!

    Welcome out, brother!

  85. “the development of Scientology is what truly defines him” … and … “It is not the hagiography the church tries to peddle”.


    I suspect that D. Sherman would have continued the hagiography under Miscavige’s tutelage … but I guess we’ll never know now, since Sherman ultimately became the Goebbels to DM’s Führer.

  86. Holy crap, that guy is the real-life “Jerk” that Steve Martin made a movie about in 1979. Shamelessly huckstering… what? to get people to post videos and photos on his own website? Here — let me post a photo in words. Five fingers. One of them is standing up. Can you guess which one? National Geographic must be insane to put this vain know-nothing fake on TV.

  87. Scott Campbell


  88. You’ve chronicled it well, J. And I think you’re right that Cruise’s “psych-busting” PR disaster in 2005 was the turning point. In a sort of twisted way, it could be said that Miscavige was almost winning the larger PR war up to that point. But with Cruise going psycho on Brook Shields and Matt Lauer … the war was lost overnight.

    But perhaps it’s for the best. The truth (and not PR) is always the best way forward … no matter how painful.

  89. Barney Rubble


    I read her Rolling Stone article before the Truth Rundown Series and it did get my attention. I now realize that she had a major journalist error in getting LRH’s death date very wrong. But…. I will read her book.

    She is indeed interesting.

  90. Tony DePhillips

    I think that we are very close to the tipping point. When a well respected non-Scientology journalist recognizes the valididty of the Indy movement and Marty is described as the new Martin Luther, I mean DAMN!!! Bam!! In YOUR face miss cabbage!!

  91. plainoldthetan

    Yvonne. I’ve already seen the material for the (confusingly named) Maiden Voyage events (2) for this year. One is a crow-fest about “Miscavige’s accomplishments” and one is about “IAS accomplishments”.


  92. I’ve been reading Janet’s book during a road trip with my mom and sister. I have had such a hard time putting it down! I’m at the end now in the “notes” section.

    Corporate Scientology lost three generations of Scientologist when my family left. At the same time three generations of my family found their voice, rediscovered their self determinism and broke free from the chains of suppression.

    Janet Reitman did an amazing job. Her book filled in a lot of the blanks that we had as a family in regard to many things that had been going on in Corporate Scientology.

    Thank you to everyone who spoke up and contribute to making this book happen 😉

  93. Mike:

    It is mind blowing listening to you here on the BLOG, and hearing you speak in this video about Janet Reitman and Scientology during the days when you worked for the church. I had trouble believing it was you. You have a come a long way, and deserve much long overdue credit for bringing the truth out as you are about corporate Scientology’s damaging effects on people’s lives.

    Much love:


  94. WW & Leonore,
    I admit, I do get carried away. Life has had me bogged down a lot lately. I’ve noticed recently my TRs being out, and my comm isn’t what it used to be.

    Carry on doing what you are doing and take me with a grain of salt. Keep the postulate out there that folks like me get back on the Bridge, and maybe one day I can be here instead of my bank. No matter how much fun those ev purps might sound. 😉

    As you were… 🙂

  95. Welcome to the Free Theta Space,there’s no looking back now!

  96. martyrathbun09

    Former Int Guys and Gals, does his demeanor remind you of anyone?

  97. I remember when I would complain about the prices of services being too high for the rank and file and only the rich could afford Scientology. I was told ” We’ll get them on the next time around” Guess what folks, this is the next time around.

  98. Nice post SA. Superb!

    ML Tom

  99. CP,

    Steve Halls website at freeandable dot com one can find Indies who deliver. Here in Phx we are gearing up for major delivery. A Bunch of us are going to start soon. Contzact me for specifics on that.

    ML Tom

  100. I’m not former Int … but Cardone does remind me of Cruise’s arrogant, know-best attitude that he had adopted and showcased in 2005. (Even more so when I read Cardone’s letter and KR on Milton Katselas at the Village Voice.)

  101. martyrathbun09

    Miscavige manufactures criminals, in his own image.

  102. I ordered my copy today from Amazon.com. If I were Miss Cabbage I would be very worried.

  103. Mike, this is abominible. So these pricks 3-P the shit out of Milton, tell his students that he is “Disaffected” and then his students start routing out of his workshop and then Guido Cardone caves in Milton with that stupid KR putting it all on Milton for being disaffected and then Milton dies from a broken heart. He was true to LRH all the way to the end. Holy-all-that-is-wrong.

  104. Ya, ’60’s CIA which DM has studied harder than he did any LRH.

    ML Tom

  105. Mike Rinder +10

  106. Welcome Frederick!

  107. +1, Mike. That’s the way I see it too.


  108. Brilliant. It is the “next time around.”

    Scientology is supposed to be full of interesting people. LRH was an interesting person. The Independents are interesting people. The Church of Miscavige is attempting to make robots/cookie cutters/dull people/beings who don’t move outside the lines. DM is dedicated to making big beings into small beings – and when they can’t be suppressed, you get Independence.

    LRH had an interesting life. You can say a lot about it. A lot of people here had an interesting life. The Church likes to talk about those little things. Personal “outpoints” or pseudo-outpoints, the environment of life rather than regulation and introversion. But in the bigger picture – those things are not nearly so relevant as the work that’s done, the effects created.

    And it sounds like Janet Reitman gets that. Can’t wait to read the book.
    Love the Amazon stat. Real stats for the win!

  109. So true. Did you ever see an “OT” like this come off the lines when Hubbard was on top of things? Never would have happened!

  110. Joy Graysen

    Congratulations Frederick!! Welcome to the Kool-Aider Drinker’s Life Raft! They don’t know it yet but WE are making it possible for them to actually HAVE Scientology again. WE are laying the underground railroad! They think we are the enemy but we are their salvation. One day they will all thank us. Until then, I thank YOU for stepping forward!
    Much admiration,

  111. DM valance this is.

  112. Hi Colwell,

    The City University of New York, and the PEW Foundation each periodically do surveys of religious affiliation. Since it is hard to tell if a person “really believes” in a faith, both institutions took the same methodological approach: they simply ask people their faith and take their answer at face value.

    The poll does not ask anything more. Those people saying they are Scientologists could have been Jim Logan or a fellow who donates every dime he has to the IAS.

    What we do know is that the number has been on a long-term decline, and is likely lower now, than the last time the surveys were done.


  113. Yes Mike! Very well said.

    I personally have read all the books, more than once, all the Tech Vols, all of Vol 0 and the Management Series, and listened to at least one thousand hours of lectures. I read quite a few Flag Orders, EDs, and other documents written by Ron. You know something about a man when you read that much of his work. Some of what I read and heard was straight-ahead sensible that any person hearing it would go “yep, that’s right.” Some of it is so fantastic that you have to wonder if the man was high – unless you also understand the research and context behind it, and through the process understand how incredibly un-afraid and unabashed Ron was about stating exactly what he sees, has observed, and has tested. Not only have I read it, I applied it in hundred if not thousands of hours in the chair. (btw, I can report that I never punched a PC and that they all lived – in fact, they all thanked me profusely).

    Ron admitted his mistakes. He pulled processes that turned out to not do what was intended. He was a huge promoter of using pilots in administration and in tech research. He never spared himself when it came to guinea pigs – it was understood that when you studied with Ron, you were on the research cycle.

    Ron also was very much aware of his audiences. He wrote to communicate to the people on the other end. Scientology 0 (broad issue, non-tech related) material was totally different from Scientology VI material, and R6 and the OT Levels.

    Everything in the OT levels, pretty much, is viewable in publicly available materials. The OT levels are just incredibly refined and to-the-point. There is no salesmanship or argument or persuasion at the upper levels. You are either there are you are not. This is one reason, in my opinion, why training is so damned important.

    This is also why it is so damned important to deliver excellent auditing at the so-called “lower levels.” You don’t suddenly “go past lives” when you reach OT, you go past lives on Dianetics, or on Straightwire, or similar recall processes. You don’t suddenly realize you are a spiritual being when you are done OT III, you realize it in sessions like Op Pro by Dup, other objective processes, and other grades processes. You can’t DO, let alone understand, the OT levels until you understand you are a being free and independent of your physical form.

    Now, I know the uninitiated can say that I have been “brainwashed” into thinking I have lived before, went exterior, as-ised (erased) engramic incidents, etc. My answer to that is you can choose to take the RED pill, or the BLUE pill. I took the red pill, and acknowledged what I saw rather than ignored it because it did not meet some authoritarian idea of what you should or should not believe. I regained myself.

    So, this is who Ron is.

    Nothing else really matters. In fact, anything else other than this is a distraction, including trying to paint Ron as a saint.

  114. Dirty money! What good is that video and his stupid $ 500.00 going to do me if I have to listen to his DM based BS from that corrupt group he thinks is so hot that calls itself a church?

    People can think of better things to do than this.

    PLUS. If you did it and you won and you are a declared SP, you know what he is going to say, is that he’s making and keeping the money and he can’t give it to you, because you are an SP.

    Hey Grant Cardone, pull your head out of your a** and smell the roses instead, honey.

  115. Jesus Christ. Jesus H. Christ. This is insane. It is insane.

    And the grace of Milton’s request for withdrawal showed his humanity.

    This is a festering boil.

  116. Tony,
    I must say – you made me laugh!

  117. Hubbard attracted MANY GREAT Luminaries.
    Who does DM attract? A SUPER REG!

  118. I have to tell you that your response elicited a wonderful belly laugh. Wonderful.

  119. I am very glad that Janet has what it takes to put a book like this right in his {DM’s} face, in case he ever learned how to read since he dropped out of high school.


  120. Bozz,

    Well I’m not going to evaluate for you, and I certainly didn’t take your comm as bank or ev purps or out TRs. Maybe you’re just impatient and eager to get the show on the road. I can’t fault that! But thanks for the smileys and hearing me/us out.

    As for those who’ve stood up and told their stories to the world – brought the light and hope back into the subject of Scientology, all y’all deserve to have a rock-roaring time at the Indie party next week!


  121. Dark star crashes, pouring its light into ashes.
    Reason tatters, the forces tear loose from the axis.
    Searchlight casting for faults in the clouds of delusion.
    Shall we go, you and I, while we can,
    Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?
    Mirror shatters in formless reflections of matter.
    Glass hand dissolving to ice petal flowers revolving.
    Lady in velvet recedes in the nights of goodbye.
    Shall we go, you and I while we can
    Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds?

  122. Wow Marty — Cardone is like DM when he gets all excited about his latest “idea” — which is kooky, stupid, off-policy, and ridiculously bizarre.

    He pulls in the staff from the concerned org or area, he gets all animated and arrogantly tells people what they are going to do to, praising his genius, and at the same time putting a few kicks into nearby staff that he considers should have handled his perceived (and imagined) situation in the first place.

    The orders are insane. They are stupid. They don’t work (for obvious reasons) and then, when there are no results, he blames the staff for not doing it right, for cross ordering him, or some other imagined reason.
    The truth was — he cross ordered them in the first place off doing the usual, on-policy action.

    All praise DM (everyone bow) — his Royal Highness of Stupid Ideas, adn his apprentice monkey — Cardone.

  123. Hi Karen,
    Last time I checked my local Barnes and Noble for an LRH book, I was told they do not stock them in the store any more. There were some LRH books available but, you had to know which book you wanted. Then the bookstore would order it for you from Bridge (I believe). I can’t even find a copy of Dianetics in the bookstores I’ve been in. Clear the planet? How, without the Dianetics book made available?

  124. Dean, Me, too!

  125. SA,
    Thanks! This is a great and important quote!

  126. Grasshopper,

    Lots of change. Not the change that DM and his fixed ideas wants, but change all the same. Just because a leader can’t change his considerations doesn’t mean that neither he nor his followers are changing.

  127. Tony,

    I would think we’ve reached the tipping point. Look at how many former scientologists in the Independent Movement are reveling in their situation. Perhaps, what we are witnessing is acceleration as the “tipping” begins to gain more and more momentum.

  128. Lana Oye: “you’ve come a long way … ”

    I didn’t watch the video but I’m guessing Mike sounded like a brainwashed lock-stepping puppet. He was.

    I don’t look at it like “he’s come a long way”. I view Mike and all of us as having shed the ARMOR/COCOONS/VALENCES that were firmly surrounding us, making us appear as brainwashed lock-stepping puppets.

    I never knew Mike (other than to recognize him) while I was in the SO but friends of mine knew him well. And one for one, adored him. EVEN when he was a “brainwashed lock-stepping puppet” 🙂

    I believe that all men/women are basically good – it’s the armor/cocoon/valences that obscure what IS (our true benevolent radiant nature).

    This blog, the books about corporate miscavigology etc are enabling big chunks of those pieces of armor to evaporate.

    And getting rid of the remaining cocoon/valences is up to each of us independently to find a path which will lead us to freedom and liberation.


  129. +100 Mike and Grasshopper.

  130. Jim,

    Your obsession with my malformed fingernails has just got to stop. I just can’t go on painting them every morning and night just so you will continue to love me. That particular shade of purple you love so much has been discontinued and I have yet to formulate its exact hue. which has left me nearly hysterical with worry. Will Jim every love me again?


  131. Joy: Thanks for the idea. I just did too!

  132. You are absolutely right Mike. Anyone who has experienced LRH’s Scientology for any length of time can’t help but marvel at the scope and depth of his work. The many decades it must have taken to research and develop and its effectiveness.

    Such experience trumps lesser considerations about his life. Such a body of work could not have been created by a mere story teller or larger than life figure, no matter how great the stories or how large the life.

    An author who has not experienced Scientology for themselves is not likely to appreciate all that. But I guess that is nothing new. In my experience that gulf in reality was the sharpest thorn in the side for Scientology, external affairs wise, until Miscavige took over.

    Miscavige has created a whole new bush of thorns. All his own making.


  133. Karen,
    Thanks for the data re Amazon. I’ve never used it before but, I will now. I guess I need to get out of the dark ages and use my computer! ml, Laura

  134. Interesting numbers James …

    I did a bit of research:

    • In 2001, the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) reported that there were 55,000 adults in the United States who consider themselves Scientologists.
    • In 2008, the same survey team estimated there to be 25,000 Americans identifying as Scientologists.
    • The 2001 United Kingdom census contained a voluntary question on religion, to which approximately 48,000,000 chose to respond. Of those living in England and Wales who responded, a total of 1,781 said they were Scientologists.
    • In 2001, Statistics Canada, the national census agency, reported a total of 1,525 Scientologists nationwide.
    • In the 2006 New Zealand census, 357 people identified themselves as Scientologists.
    • In 2006, Australia’s national census recorded 2,507 Scientologists nationwide.
    • In 2008, the Pew Forum’s Statistics on Religion in America Report didn’t even bother to mention the number of Scientologists they found, though their analysis noted religious affiliations down to less than 0.3%, with such beliefs as “Wiccan” and “Pagan”

    A new Census was just taken in Canada – data will be released likely later this year.

    I would estimate that the number will be about 4-500 across Canada, and that may even be pushing it.

  135. morelivesthanacat

    Hey Grant, try using a tripod. And maybe some lights. You’re gunna catch hell from Dave over this amateur crap hash. (and they’re going to put you on television?!) P.S. Don’t dance on the couch.

  136. I can see the new Scientology Organization!!!

    Local Orgs Hmm new word Society, maybe? We don’t need no stinking pope!! Set it up like the Jews…

    Being in Seattle I can see working with Tony for a new group. Delivering all of the processes. No upper Orgs (with the internet we can always get expert help from other groups).. Reasonable prices. Integrated into the community. Wog friends encouraged. A fresh new openness. Looking from the top of the mountain with ARC.

    With standard guide lines of course.

    Where auditors get paid a good rate or salary.

    Grass roots of course..

    It can happen… Postulate it.

  137. Dennis, well done on your research.

    Except for the occasional shove or assault (threatening posture, without physical contact), this conflict has little violence compared to most (in the typical “non-violent” revolution, at least a few hundred die).

    We are involved, in the main, in a PR war. LRH stresses over and over again the importance of sticking with THE FACTS in a PR war.

    The challenge is to keep your TR-0 in and use objective FACTS as one’s bullets, rather than generalities and name calling. This requires that one understands:

    1. the game he is playing; and
    2. the tech of that game

    It also requires that one appreciates the devastating power of a well constructed, factual presentation (in our case, we have no problem: the facts of DM’s action are horrific) and that one understands that name calling not only has little impact on those you wish to get on your side, it usually alienates them.

    For example, if we want people to stop supporting David Miscavige, we are not going to get them to do that by calling them koolaide drinkers. Contrast name calling with Marc’s simple recitation of the Musical Chairs incident. Or, with a factual presentation of the incredible stat collapse since DM forced his way into power.

    Fortunately for us, the correct tech of the game is well-developed. It exists in LRH Policy (for example, in the PR policy), and in the “hat write ups” of those successful non-violent warriors that came before us. Not to diminish the harassment that Marty, Mike, Mosey, Karen, etc are experiencing, but those warriors faced far greater repression (imprisonment, torture, death, etc.) than we face, but came through it and won. Google “Colour revolution.”

    Gene Sharp and others have written extensively on their successful actions, and the tech they used to prevail against much stronger oppressors than DM, who is a relative lightweight.


  138. Ann,

    Here’s my take: reading all the information available on this blog, especially for someone coming late, can be a bit overwhelming. Certainly, it is time consuming. Certainly, there is a lot of informational traffic that is distracting and not always relevant.

    Because there is so very, very much false information floating around the internet about LRH and what happened those last few years, very few are privy to what actually did occur. Sarge has a lot of first hand information. Karen has a lot. Marty has a lot. Mike has a lot. So do others here.

    In the interests of economy and purpose, a book would be very beneficial as a concise reference that corrects the lies and misrepresentations. It’s a matter of third dynamic auditing: observing the exact time, place, form, event, terminals to bring about understanding and as-isness. Purely a third dynamic activity driven by the combined understandings gained by a bunch of first dynamics.

    On this blog, Marty has said a lot of things (sorry for the generality) to correct some of these lies, but posters are persistent in revisiting the myths and misinformation. And the truth keeps getting covered under the dust and debris of this avalanche of information.

    This blog serves a needed and wanted purpose of moving individuals to higher awareness by giving a forum to interact and communicate. But, its “free wheeling” nature often obscures the exact time, place, form, event, terminals, thus preventing an exact erasure on the third dynamic.

    New people leave the church every day. They need a place to come and move through certain conditions and understandings. And this blog provides that opportunity.

    But, this blog also has various hurdles.

    I would venture that most of us have experienced third dynamic overrun phenomena participating here. We run the third dynamic event past understanding and cognition; and mass moves back in.

    We make posts that never get acknowledged and get a bit ARC broken. Much like the meter drill where you create dirty needles by messing with the comm cycle. Blogs like this just don’t further perfect comm cycles. So, each of us has to come to terms with that at some point. The ARC break aspect. The invalidation (usually by failures to be appreciated or acknowledged) and evaluation aspect.

    Individuals also find themselves trying to strike a correct estimation of effort and time about being involved here. How much time should I allot to reading this stuff? How much should I contribute? Lots of questions like that. Do I just quit? Is this addictive? I’ve got so many other things I’ve got to do in life and I’m spending all my free time reading this blog rather than getting the lawn mowed and the generators installed.

    Lots of hurdles encountered.

    We just all move over these hurdles in our own way. And that’s part of the process of this blog which hasn’t been exactly observed and mapped.

    But, back to the book. There is a very definite and different purpose and value to the book Marty intends even if it simply parallels this blog. It’s like the difference between running a process on communication and reading Dianetics ’55. Both have different values.

    But, I’m just extrapolating here because I’m such a busybody know-it-all.

    I really do appreciate you being here, Ann. Just thought I’d say.


  139. TheWidowDenk

    Grasshopper —

    Your comment: “So, this is who Ron is.” Yes, absolutely true!

    Might I add I did a massive research project of Ron’s fiction-publishing days, concentrating on the later 1930’s to early 1950’s? In that research, I discovered a great deal more, including his popularity among the reading public, editors, publishers, etc. I, too, concluded “one knows the man by his works.”

  140. Welcome, Frederick! I LOVE your handle, “Defender of Theta!!” L, H

  141. Truth comes before lies and truth exposes lies created to hide those truths people have lied about to other people.

    This whole BLOG is helping people everywhere, my self no exception, to shed all the lies I once believed were the truth as well.


  142. GH,
    Absolutely beautifully written post. That is the Quality of Communication in spades. Thank you!

  143. Mike,
    This William James quote comes to mind:
    ” “In the natural sciences and industrial arts it never occurs to any one to try and refute opinions by showing up their author’s neurotic constitution. Opinions here are invariably tested by logic and experiment, no matter what may be their author’s neurological type. It should be no otherwise with religious opinions.”The Varieties of Religious Experience.

  144. What stood out in the VV article quoting Milton was that despite the crap this DM wannabe put on his lines, he simply followed an LRH Policy and sent the report to HCO and asked for it to be withdrawn exactly per that LRH PL.

    That being, Milton Katselas, IS all that and more. A real Scientologist. What a stellar example of What We Expect of A Scientologist, the actual LRH issue, not this perverted STASI bullshit.

  145. Ladidah,
    “Thetans without banks have different responses.”

    Boy is THAT ever true!!

  146. RoryMedford

    Thx Cat Daddy!!

    Great song!

    I guess just about everybody has a price tag. What is DM’s price tag?

  147. Joe,
    It IS happening. Today, right now. Come to The Courseroom in Havana, Florida, you can get sorted out on anything you’ve done so far and move forward to anything you want to create tomorrow.

    Les and Anita and Frankie are all over it. Marty delivers, Trey, Pierre, Chris B., Mr. Davis, Dan K., soon Maureen will be in the chair, Brian too. Ingrid is in action, Karen Numero Uno, etc., etc., etc.

    The broken line of the suppressive David Miscavige is by-passed. There is not just ‘freedom from’ but ‘freedom to’ and that to is right here, right now, and the Road to Truth is there to be travelled.

    All one needs do is reach – a hand will be there to grasp.

  148. It actually is happening.

  149. Mike, as you know, when we were putting together the LRH Life Exhibition I sifted through mountains of data to determine what story we were going to tell and how we were going to tell it. Having done the OT sections prior to the LRH Life Exhibition I was already in love with him and his exhaustive research into our minds to free us from eternal slavery of implants. But researching how he spent his life prior to Dianetics was like sitting at the feet of the master humanitarian sipping a chocolate malt while listending to him expound his love for mankind. There was an LRH quote I had picked out to be on the waterfall in the entrance of the exhibition and, though I forget it now, he basically said that if you want to understand man you must co-exist at the lowest level with him. He did. He wallowed in the lowest form of humanity in order to see what it was that made them tick.

    I found his life prior to Dianetics to be THE real adventure because it was an adventure of love in the biggest story ever; the love of man.

    And this is why, to this day, I will support LRH to my death and then beyond because he really busted his own ass to understand us so he could fix us. He literally spent his life doing this. He might have had his flaws and I am sure, had I known him on a casual basis I could have sat in a bar with him getting shitfaced and telling dirty jokes. But that’s not the point. Before he was clear he was not clear and had his abberations. So what? It’s an altered importance.

    ML Tom

  150. Bozz

    OK, I got it.
    Tell you what, if you feel an Ethics “ear” might be of some help to you at any point, feel free to e-mail me.

    Eric S

  151. Mark Fisher

    Mike I agree with you regarding the book and telling LRH’s history. While it lays out the time line correctly, it is impossible to cover in detail all aspects of LRH’s life and how he put together the tech and policy.

    LRH had his flaws. Some of them I saw when I was in, but the positiveness of the tech and the results far outweighed them in my mind. After leaving and learning more of his history, I became more angry about the lies we were told, but after that subsided, I could not get away from the fact, that nothing I have experienced since leaving 21 years ago has matched the feeling you get after a really good session!

    It is easy to miss that if someone hasn’t experienced LRH tech at work in session. So we can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater as the old saying goes.

    What I think most people still connected to the C of M will find most interesting and enlightening in Janet Reitman’s book is the story of DM and his take over of the Church and how he manipulated LRH at the end and changed what LRH’s intentions were for the future management of Scientology. While I knew much of the story, there were details that Janet was able to get from people for the first time that shed more light for me.

    That story plus the truth about what DM has done since taking over will be most enlightening for those still connected to the C of M.

  152. I just got a friend request on facebook from Milton katselas. From a recent article, I had read that he was no longer in this identity. What gives?

  153. Another Layer

    Mike & Grasshopper (come to think if it, everyone who posts here),
    Your viewpoints are invaluable and so beautifully expressed. For me, this particular thread has intensified the contrast to near black and white, of the freedom that was to be had in Scientology in 1975 (when I started) to the early ’80s when things started downhill so rapidly, to the current locked-down, bottom-feeding sham of a church.
    On a lighter note, here’s a humonguous hat’s off to Marty, for continuing to create more and more space for all this bright and shining light!

  154. Expelled 4 Life

    Travolta made a cameo appearance on “Dancing With The Stars” a month or two ago where he gave Kirstie Alley dancing tips. Was it my imagination or was JT in this same “intense, tough guy” valence during that appearance? I believe it was suppose to be humorous but I missed the sweet, sincere JT.

  155. right on David! xo

  156. Dennis-fascinating stats-dm is only interested in the ones who have lots of money to give away to him. He’ll take a Grant Cardone any day over a 1000 auditors.

  157. Frederick- Welcome to a fun group of people who are seriously helping!!!!! You will fit right in.

  158. Carol-A big plus one!

  159. SaveTheTech

    Hey, it’s a slow day.. a lazy Saturday. Mike and Marty are probably fishing, so check out this fabulous song made especially for DM. “Short People”

  160. Sapere Aude

    I think you can relax. Jim is probably experiencing a loss of the stimulation he had from fly fishing. He thinks of a flash of color when he saw the nails and thought of a beautiful hand tied fly. Jim will get over it – just takes a little time to pass. 🙂

  161. Postulates all come through, even to achive the OT the Native State.

    Elizabeth Hamre OT. | June 25, 2011 at 6:11 pm | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: http://wp.me/p1wu7d-4o

    Postulates: just had cognition on postulates. Good new Gang, good news!

    All the postulated which were ever made do become a reality. The problem is most of them comes through wrong time and the wrong place. And not necessarily recognised by that time they do. Or they are put down as problems and nuisance.


    Not this life maybe or the next life time, but that will happen.

    Also that can happen in “in-between lives”, as I have seeing it happens in the future. [ I can see the future OT ability regained.] Since that postulate to achieve is still in existence, it has not been “not-ised”. It will come through.

    If I remember correctly LRH said [Marildi or Valkov should know where and pull up a reference from] that the postulate takes time because it has to move, work itself through obstacles in the universe so it seems it is not there not arriving but in actually happening.

    From my own experience I know how the postulates work how it comes about, than in fact the “ Native State “will be achieved by every being that put it out in the Universe when entered into the Church of Scientology and postulated to achieve that End Phenomenon State of OT, Native State.

    Ps: Since I see into the future I have seen it happen over and over how the Technology become affect and has affected so far the Universe and I know know how it is done and sessions are not necessarily needed

    Happiness is to know that my friend will be with me as we will embark on new adventures of course Indigo and Tanaja will be our guide. You all have a wonderful day and a beautiful life knowing, nothing has been lost.

    Everything is yours for whatever you have asked and wished for. No man can destroy a postulate the progress of the Universe even if he calls himself of head of the C.ofS. He holds no such a power.



  162. You got it Jim,

    There are literally thousands of folks who are already on services in the independent field or are gearing up to be on service.

    We are now organizing to deliver the SHSBC and will have a class VIII course humming by the middle of next year (earlier if some of the class VI’s in the indy field request it).

    If you care to do some research, you will find that the cult has expelled nearly ten times more VIIIs in the past ten years than they have made.
    A real class VIII is very standard and “robot” is NOT standard tech.

    Things are actually moving along very well and exactly according to LRH in his reference on ” Superior Service Image.” This blog has accelerated the big change needed by 100 fold. We would have made it, but it would have taken decades longer without Marty and Mike and Steve etc. exposing the truth and blowing a hole in that 3rd dynamic engram.

    All you auditors who have dreamed of freeing beings but put your dreams on hold because of the cult’s suppression…charge up your meters, review your materials, drill your weak points, choose your C/S and get ready to rock and roll. Not only do we have thousands of cult members who want standard tech, but there are billions of folks on this who want your help.

    In the words of Thomas Jefferson: “When injustice becomes law, resistance ecomes duty.” The resistence is here. It is not a war, it’s “truth revealed.”


  163. Once upon a time-Beautifully stated. This blog serves a great purpose in giving us a 3D that we all lost. What is missing is a brick and mortar place.It is still a 3D and subject to mishaps. I have certainly learned a lot and as-ised a certain amount as to certain time, place forms and events that I never knew about and of course it is up to me to evaluate it’s veracity-like looking at the source of the data.
    I am going to take an opportunity here to promote processing. To fully as-is charge that has happened as a result of being in the CofM will really occur in an auditing session. I am on a campaign to get people into session ( and not just necessarily with me) as anything can be as-ised. It is a lot of fun now to do auditing and you won’t have to sell your first born!

  164. Margaret-I would hate for anyone to tell all my flaws “out of context”.I t wouldn’t be pretty.

  165. I thought that we Indys were the fundamentalists.

  166. Change or Die:

    I sincerely do not believe the Cult of Miscavology is capable of change.
    Even when the ABUSE resonates through every form of media, TV, books, blogs, Internet websites, through various Governments and other geographical boundaries, Miscavige is convinced the Martians are after him and OTHERS (not himself) are there to destroy Scientology.

    Here are some examples ~~

    1) In early days a Norwegian called Andreas had a primitive Bulletin Board, (BBS) before the days of Word Press and advanced sophisticated Message Boards.

    OSA used thuggery against Andreas
    I know that if they gently sat down with him and used reason and ARC, he would have
    ceased. But they used OSA thuggery, and Andreas in order to show he would not be whipped into a cowering fearful victim, had the last laugh. He created OCMB, (Operation Clambake) a message board that inevitable comes up on the first page, the #2 hit on any Google Search of the word “Scientology.” It is a stunning black eye for OSA and how they bungled handling him. Operation Clambake is set up to endure through time and space, long after Andreas has passed on. Nice product “Office of COB !”

    2) Tory Christman. I have had communication cycles with her to find out how it all went down. She stressed to me, how the ABUSIVE, off the wall, insane dirty tricks evolved her into a full time Crusader. Whatever the OSA dirty tricks tried to do, she vowed she would escalate it 10x. Imagine a “Church” posting her private home tel no on a porn website, a veteran of 30 years ~~ for her to receive vulgar phone calls all day and night. End result : Tory has a YouTube channel with 12,000+ followers and 1.5 million total hits.  Nice Product “Office of COB !”

    3) Marc Headley was leaking ~~ one of the earliest INT Base personnel who leaked. However, after he blew he wanted only one thing, his sister out of INT base, out of the sadism, the SLEEP DEPRIVATION, the madness of Miscavige. OSA
    raised the ante and Marc leaked more and more and more and more and still they would not release his sister. Their thuggery and dirty tricks on him resulted in the book “Blown for Good.” Eventually they let his sister go, but it was too late by then.
    Marc Headley’s INT BASE MUSICAL CHAIRS is THE most read essay of all time, with a combination of 145,000 views on just 3 boards. The Internet broadcast loud and clear what went on at INT BASE and the David Miscavige beatings. Nice Product “Office of COB !”

    4) When I was whistleblowing as “War and Peace” I needed to vent. I was an unknown anonymous poster and I most likely would have posted for a year or two and gone away. I have other deep and important lifelong goals. But the “Church” changed all that. After manipulating my son to guide me to the hate website and trying to maliciously set me up for “Child trafficking”, and posting malicious lying tabloid website on me, I threw the gauntlet down. Here is a Church that has morphed into a toxic, malicious, vindictive entity that needed more and more exposure.
    40 years ago the Guardian’s Office set up Paulette Cooper with malicious lies to the FBI to get her arrested. 40 years later, Office of Special Affairs have tried the exact same dirty trick of calling Law Enforcement with malicious tabloid lies on Marty Rathbun re his brother, and me as a Child Trafficker !  “Office of COB~~ in the valence of the darker side of the Guardian’s Office !”

    On a gentle smoldering FIRE, Miscavology does not know how to throw water on it to put it out.

    On the phrase “Change or Die”
    Miscavology cannot change.

    Miscagive ONLY knows how to throw gasoline on the fire. he thinks DOMINATION, SADISM, ABUSE and THUGGERY will win !

    He is incapable of doing anything else. Hence the scene as it is today.

  167. This article absoultely deserves it’s own thread.

    Jihad?? Brilliant.

  168. Agreed!

  169. OnceUponATime

    Hi Michael

    Good summary, and a lot of valid points. I have personally experienced much of what you say.

    One aspect of this blog forum that I value highly, is that it is open to such a wide range of viewers. This is a good thing, in my opinion, but it is sometimes difficult to communicate at a reality level that encompasses such a varied experiential base. It is a good exercise, but I find I often fall short of my communication goal.

    I would love to see Marty’s book for the same reasons you have given. I find Marty a good communicator, and it would be great to read his thoughts and experiences in a format and sequence that he has total control over. I am sure it will prove to be a very valuable reference tool, now, and into the future. I also look forward to it.

    Recently I was reflecting on the value of this blog, and others like it, but especially this one. One of the aspects of this forum that I put a lot of value on, is that it is making Scientology, “scientologists” and the philosophy of L. Ron Hubbard REAL. There are obviously all kinds of people, with their viewpoints and understandings, who call themselves “scientologists”. This forum lets those interested get to know some of us, to some degree, and that makes us, and Scientology more real to them. We get to know each other. We get to share core values, and can grow from the experience, both as the originator and the receiver. It is something that simply was not available before the internet. Good, or bad, one gets to experience various viewpoints and understandings and come to one’s own conclusions.

    This is PRICELESS!

    This is not just some other “social networking site”. This is LIVING COMMUNICATION, about things that we feel MATTER. This is a philosophical goldmine. People who visit this site can come away with something that may very well change their lives, and the lives of those they are in contact with. And I am not just talking Scientology here. There is a stunning array of information shared.

    And all of this is being done along side, and within, the purpose of this blog to stop the wholesale “slaughter” of “Scientology” and Scientologists, and other “People of good will”, by David Miscavige.

    Quite amazing. Quite wonderful.

    Eric S

  170. Mike Hobson

    Lynne, Milton passed away Oct 24, 2008 according to his Wikipedia page. I got one of these invites also and promptly used the Facebook reporting system to report that account as fraudulent. Please do likewise.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  171. Does it seem to anyone that Cardone is DM’s attempted answer to Marty? Or that Cardone is trying to step into a PR vacuum because DM is afraid to and incapable of interfacing with the public? Has DM found an overt-aggressive #2 to lead the charge against – what?

    Grant Cardone seems like Freedumb Magazine personified.

  172. Milton is the real Scientologist. He was loyal to LRH to the end. OTV is case gain. Milton’s correct applications of ethics/tech/admin are crystal clear in his request for withdrawal of the KR to MAA AOLA.

    The irony here is also that the “Turnaround King” did every thing he could to turn around Milton’s business – that is, destroy it and destroy Milton.

    Milton, we love you, and thank you for all you did!

  173. I do want to say also about this blog is there are some, who are incredible writers and express their thoughts beautifully,which is a pleasure and makes me want to take a writing course.When I worked in the Org I never got memos like these!!To mention a few-you, Marty, Mike, Sapere, Grasshopper, Veritas, thoughtful, Jim Logan and quite a few more. There is a lot of quality of comm.

  174. …Ain’t about the (ha) Cha-Ching Cha-Ching.
    Aint about the (yeah) Ba-Bling Ba-Bling
    Wanna make the world dance,
    Forget about the Price Tag….
    I love this song!

  175. Ingrid … yes – your point about money vs. auditors is spot on.

    Amazing to think that if he just made the auditors, the money would naturally flow in … wow – simply deliver real Scientology and stats in ALL areas would flourish and the organization would prosper.

    At this point, DM has committed far too may atrocities to say ‘Oops, I think I may have mis-applied a policy/bulletin or three’ He would lose what he considers his prestige and altitude, Really, he has none other than from the few public left on lines.

    He would never let himself be wrong this far into the game.

    This money – motivation is now the culture – yes the regges come up with lots of references, but do so in such a way as to have others violate their own integrity & FP. It is an inverted Scale of Motivation – totally.

    I constantly shook my head wondering why some regges would pull gold teeth on some new prospect to buy a Clear package for a momentary jump in the stats. Then, with the heavy push from uplines on getting stats up, the reg would start all manner of ‘creative’ financing the following week 0 one overt after another. Sheesh, all the prospect wanted was a 25 buck Comm Course.

    Now the prospect is in debt up to his eyeballs, and with the wild manner in which some orgs allocate funds thru their FP; the money is gone, the prospect won’t be back at the reg for who knows how long, and the hydro people are shutting off the lights.

    Well, ‘lights off’ at this point may be the best thing … at the very least the PR damage would stop, and those that are still in would realize that what they have been doing has almost no resemblance to Scientology at all.

  176. George White

    I really like the poetic nature of your post.
    It is very unique.
    Much loving-kindness,
    George White

  177. Les- A great call to “arms”!

  178. Thanks Eric, though you may regret that offer. I just might take you up on it. 😉 I’m sure Marty would welcome the relief. He’s been my sounding board here and there.

    But ya know… something tells me he’s got just a little more on his hands these days!!! And Leonore is right about the other thing: I am impatient. 🙂

    Enjoy the July 4th party! Gimme one more year. I’ll make it yet.

  179. Karen: You are definitely a force … so glad you are on the side of humanity!!!

    And the continue to keep the google searches coming up with the non-corporate sites –
    1) google “scientology” — 2) then click on news at the top of the page google brings up — that will shift the page to the active most recent news sites. 3) then click on the real news article.

    For example, today the first thing that comes up are Tony Orgeta’s (Village Voice) streams of articles about scientology for this week. Lots of news things here.

    Further down the page are the ever increasing “PR Web” articles by active kool-aid drinking scientologists. These are PLACED articles in PR WEB which puts them all over the web in an effort to raise google positioning.

    BUT — to keep the REAL news high in google searches — do the above.


  180. Here’s the most recent article from Village Voice — which includes Milton Katsales’ answer to Cardone, in the form of a very on policy request to have Cardone’s KR withdrawn.

    Milton did do the Ethics Specialist Course — the huge one on the Apollo intended for MAAs in the Sea Org.


  181. Grant Cardone: I fear I’m repeating myself, but your perspective on human beings and life and theta simply reeks.

    Your C/S: Go to a mall, a plaza, a place, a markt. Sit. Observe. Do nothing. Observe some more. Keep observing. Do nothing. Decide nothing. Observe some more. Keep observing. When the obsession to judge is quiet, stand up. Touch your toes. Take a deep breath. Take a walk. Find a bar. Order a whiskey. Don’t think. Leave the bar. Take another walk. Look at some trees. Some leaves. Don’t think. Find a river. Take your clothes off. Go swimming. Climb back on the bank. Put your clothes on. Go home. Take a long sleep. Wake up. Have some coffee. Smile.

    Live your life. Let others live their life. Respect yourself. Respect others. Be happy. Help others be happy. Keep doing that. Now, to have some nice lunch.


  182. So true Haydn

    The scope of his work is what makes any of Ron’s short comings pale. The amount of time & research that was put into this has been incredible. If Ron was just a story teller, or someone who wanted a quick get rich scheme, there are surely easier ways to accomplish this … look at the Grant Cardones’ and the David Miscaviges’.

    The work was Ron’s for all of us. The Cardones’ & Miscaviges’ and their ilk have not contributed a thing towards man’s freedom – they deal in smoke & mirrors and suppression.

    As for Ron’s history as an explorer, in the navy, the travels, etc – frankly some of was interesting, but the majority of it never impacted me at all. It was the philosophy and the extent of the research which did.

    I do think his travels did give him more of an all-encompassing view of life on this planet at this point in time as he got the opportunity to ‘rub elbows with all manner of men’. This is true of anyone who has traveled.

    But we all have lifetimes of experience from which we create anew, good or bad. What a game!

    In general, I think Ron was looking at the BIG picture – he didn’t want to be made out as a god, but lead he did.

    As put by one of the old timers I knew years ago, ‘He was one *major* spook’ 🙂

  183. I have put up an honor page for Milton on FB.
    The first two links are Marty’s blog and the Villiage Voice article.
    The rest are commendations and tributes to Milton’s life that people may find interesting.

  184. This Grant Cardone thing makes me sick. Here’s a project if you choose to take it on. He wants everyone to post on the This Grant Cardone thing makes me sick. He is asking his public to create rave ad copy for him and post it on Turn Around King Facebook. He is paying $500 for the best photo or Video. Sleezy way to get add copy cheap! How about posting GC is a slime ball ass kisser for David Misgavige. Or write a letter to National Geographic about his slanderous criminal activity. Maybe you can help Karma along on this ass hole!

  185. Kind of spooky that Grant is basically giving people acting classes now.
    Meanwhile, the 500.00 “award” he offered was a 1.1 way to boost “like” clicks on his page. You have to click “like” button before you can post something. Instead of just coming out and asking people for support by clicking his “like” button, see……false stats. He is covertly buying “like” clicks on the page.

  186. I get where you’re coming from, bobo.

    I think she means “fundamentalist” in the sense of being very literal-minded – like those who believe the world was created in 4,004 BC or some such thing, because they read something in the Bible literally.

    She doesn’t realize that DM and his cronies have altered away from the fundamentals of Scientology almost completely.

    So I would agree with you, but it looks like a different definition at work now.

  187. Perhaps Grant Cardone is the new up-and-coming Tommy Davis super clone?

  188. Marty:

    This really makes me laugh, something Janet Reitman said about you that I agree with of course. This statement:

    “…I think Marty is so threatening to Miscavige because he’s like a Martin Luther. He’s saying, look, there’s an alternative way..”

    Marty, I have found an alternative way to EVERYTHING the Church of Scientology says, including their application of LRH tech.

    My sides are splitting! 🙂

    Who can be believing them?

  189. To her credit (and my amazement) she opened that chapter with a quote from the introduction of Bolitho’s “12 against the Gods”

    “Adventure is the vitaminizing element in histories, both individual and social…..Its adepts are rarely chaste, or merciful, or even law-abiding at all, and any moral peptonizing, or sugaring, takes out the interest, with the truth, of their lives.”

    This was discussed here https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/
    on the 14th of April. Co-incidence?

  190. Scott Campbell


    Man, that was some black belt google-fu you just laid on us with those stats. Right on, Right on, Right on.

  191. Van’t wait for the Minerva\Bozo interview…:)

  192. Scott Campbell

    Was it this quote, Tom?

    “To know life you’ve got to be part of life, you must get down there and look. You must get into the nooks and crannies of existence, and you must rub elbows with all kinds and types of men before you can finally establish what man is.” — L. Ron Hubbard

  193. Sapere Aude

    Lynne, Marty and Mike;
    Above on this blog theoracle posted about this facebook page. This might help clear any confusions. I don’t personally know theoracle so this is raw data for you to consider.

    I re-post it here:

    theoracle | June 26, 2011 at 12:12 am | Reply

    I have put up an honor page for Milton on FB.
    The first two links are Marty’s blog and the Villiage Voice article.
    The rest are commendations and tributes to Milton’s life that people may find interesting.

  194. David-ditto on Brilliant!

  195. Tony DePhillips

    Good point.
    I just read some of the lies that Minerva wrote about me on her site. It doesn’t even phaze me. Now I know even more that this “church” is totally evil and will lie about anything in order to save it’s skin. The “church” is actually miss cabbage and he wants to save his skin at all costs and will stop at nothing.
    Sticks snd stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me!!
    Fuck off dm!! You are a peice of shit!!!

  196. Yes, let’s see, that would be under, Home, nope, accounst, I don’t think so, umm, let’s see, not under profile, umm, maybe under,…nope, not that.

    Easy for you to say “reporting system,” but I haven’t a clue (obviously) what to do.

  197. Mike Hobson

    Regarding this “Honor Page” – it’s a Terms of Service violation on Facebook to make a Facebook Account for any but your own Identity. Facebook has a mechanism for making pages for things or people one likes or admires without creating false FB Identities.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  198. Ingrid, agreed times 10000000000000!

  199. Bozz

    As I said earlier, I’m not much into regret, and I am quite willing to take my chances. Also if it is something that can benefit Marty in some way, that is another bonus.

    I’ll be missing the party this year also. Maybe next year for me too.

    Eric S

  200. Doc "Smith"

    Frederick, welcome to the team (loosely knit) that is working to end the wildly out of control abuse in the name of freedom.

  201. Brilliant, Karen. “COB” is ineffective and incompetent.

  202. You da man Scotty! That’s it.

    ML Tom

  203. Luis Agostini

    Hi Leonore.

    Felt the want to acknowledge your viewpoint regarding “groupism” or, what is to me, the urge to establish a group that, the not belonging to it, gets assigned a condition of inferiority or “flawedness” . It is, as you said, a distancing condition.

    I am very appreciative of the fact that this blog, although, to me, encourages and promotes becoming an independent scientologist, allows former members like me, who choose not to assume the scientologist beingness, but want very much the evolving of Scientology into a higher level of awareness and beingness and doingness, the freedom to communicate.

  204. Defender of Theta

    Thanks so much to all of you for your warm welcome.

    My strongest, strongest appreciation for each of you that has remained true to LRH, continuing to audit and train people, with Standard Tech. My greatest admiration for Marty, Mike, Mosey and all the rest of you, for your courage.

    I have only one comment, if I might pass it along.

    In a battle like this, it is very, very easy to get dragged down into HE&R. That is what DM wants. He wants us to get involved in a low toned, HE&R reaction game. Because, he knows that is the only way he will get us.

    LRH counsels against “succumbing to the invitation to hate” (ref “What is Greatness”). Martin Luther King talked about the liability of hatred, and lived the opposite.

    Yes, there ARE many, many reasons to hate DM. But, WE would be the victims of our hate, as it will result in our ruin.

    If we want to win, we will follow “What is Greatness” and not hate.

    To quote from the Godfather: “Don’t hate your enemies. It clouds your judgment.”

    That has to be one of the most chilling statements, ever. Imagine having an enemy who did not hate you, but was just objectively going about your destruction. I would MUCH rather have an enemy who hated me. He will make mistakes, I can use his hate against him, manipulate him, etc.

    The above having been said. I likely won’t be posting much. But, please don’t take my lack of posting to mean I am absent from the battleground. I am at work, elsewhere, with a good team of real Scientologists.

    This game has many levels. We will win.

    Love and admiration,

    Defender of Theta

  205. Mike, Exactly. Every other person who has made an impact is judged on the best of their contributions. Not LRH, in the eyes of some, however. Nietzsche, for example, spent the last part of his life in an insane asylum. No one mentions that. He is judged on his place in philosophical thought. LRH deserves to be as well. Anyone who reads the chronological sequence of his research and still labels him a con man, never understood a single word of what they read.

  206. Laura, are you THE ‘Laura’ whose court case has been given the go-ahead to go ahead?

    If so, congradulations!

  207. Pingback: Open Letter to Residents of Ingleside on the Bay Texas | Moving On Up a Little Higher

  208. martyrathbun09

    You’ve got at least one major misunderstood word.

  209. Robert Earle

    Thanks for the post Karen. I downloaded it from Amazon and finished it today. I also posted a review which might take 48 hours to post. Excellent story overall. There’s a bit of a short circuit in her story of Ron’s transition from Dianetics to Scientology which has a lot more to it Perhaps now that the book is out she will have a chance to look through the early materials of 51,52 and see what brought about that change.(If you are checking here Janet ,it would be in the earliest technical volume, I do realize that the whole of LRHs research can’t fit in your book..I think it would be ok for you to add your name to the Indie 500 list.as you had to have been using word clearing tech to write the book you did)

  210. Mike Hobson


    Except for your own page, every Facebook page has a “report/block” link at the bottom of the leftmost column. If you follow that link from the offending page, you are given a form with some options.

    Check this one: “This profile is pretending to be someone or is fake ” and you will be asked to choose the type of fake profile, one option of which is “the person is a celebrity”.

    Obviously, for any other Facebook profile you may choose to report, the responses must be appropriate to the situation.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist.

  211. Robert Earle

    Ditto Mike

  212. Yes – I have a collection of his fiction work as well. Ron’s style was great. “Fear” kicked my butt! Ol’ Doc Methuselah was fun as well. He had a great following back in the day, and is easily one of the greats of SF. Had he continued writing SF instead of launching Dianetics, he truly would have contributed several more classics to the genre. When you think about how much SF writers have added to the popular culture (Heinlein’s “grok”, the whole of Star Trek and its diaspora, “Sturgeon’s Law” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_Law), a large section of computer science (one of the most common passwords in computerdom is “NCC-1710” which is, of course, the ID number of the Starship Enterprise – he would have been famous (and was) just for that. Instead he went down this very interesting path, one not really known for making money. Sure, had he been a Christian huckster he may have made some dough, maybe, but certainly talking about past lives and space opera was not a known recipe for making serious coin.

  213. +a billion!

  214. Nice to meet ya Frederick. 🙂

  215. Tony,

    Yeah, for most of us, the RSC has lost its fear factor. I’d say that’s a huge win.

  216. Sapere Aude,

    Deep breath, deep breath, deep breath.
    Looking outwards. Looking outwards. Looking outwards.
    Spotting things. Spotting things. Spotting things.
    Relaxing. Relaxing. Relaxing.

    Thank you.



  217. Ingrid,

    Thanks for the compliment. I love that you’re pushing auditing. What better offering could one being make to another? The chance to completely change one’s life and become exactly what you’ve always wanted. The chance to regain your “immortality.” To rise above all the slings and arrows.
    Not a bad thing to offer.
    Something to be proud of. Something to be confident about the value rendered.
    And, yes, it was too bad the quality of comm in orgs suffered.
    But, we’re always learning. Always given opportunities to grow.

  218. Eric,

    I agree with what you wrote. I don’t agree that you fall short of your communication goal. Maybe short of your expectation. But that’s the insidious nature of expectations versus reality.

    I don’t see communication as a chunk of success or failure, but a process of exchanged experience leading to change. Always leading to change.

    If you ever explore the earliest track, when theta was as close to being absolutely pure as it could be, communication was pretty simple and primitive. I would say that our capacity for communication has greatly expanded–much like the capacity of computers to store information and run more complex programs.

    When we fumble around and make “mistakes” or “fail” we are merely adding to our experiential stockpile.

    When I found this blog, I had a completely different mindset than I do now. Reading the stuff I found here precipitated rehab after rehab of past wins. Within days, I was going exterior every time I sat down.

    I think the individuals posting here are a small sample of those reading. In college courses, there were those who participated and those who didn’t. Those who felt confident enough to participate were always a minority.

    Assuming similar ratios hold true here, those who write have a pretty broad audience. A widely varied audience.

    Pretty amazing opportunities to communicate.

  219. “Miscavige manufactures criminals, in his own image.”

    Which makes it so much easier to handle. Imagine how difficult this would be if he were creative enough to manufacture criminals who were clever, inventive, unpredictable. These robots are hardwired to walk right over a cliff because they can’t observe and respond.

  220. Cindi,

    Know what a Radical Islamic Texan says?

    “Yeehaw! for Jihad!”

  221. Just Me,

    Great C/S.

  222. TheWidowDenk

    Thanks for this, Grasshopper! “Final Blackout” was my favorite but then came “Battlefield Earth,” which in my opinion topped it. I believe LRH was quite bright when he wrote it, I think he had fun, and it did herald his return to the genre as well as fiction writing. Of course, that was just a sideline activity for him because, as you point out, “instead he went down this very interesting path.” Rachel

  223. Marty and Mike,

    Please in the weeks ahead, please study carefully the Lisa McPherson chapters in Janet Reitman’s book.

    Take your time on this.

    But I’ve thought LONG about all that has happened with Lisa’s tragedy.

    In summary, it looks like Bennetta Slaughter’s business was almost a sort of extremist stat pushing and wrong indication stuck scenario that Lisa could NOT fight, it would cause he to lose everything.

    I think Bennetta’s business became a “suppressvie group” to Lisa.

    And Scientology backedup Bennetta. Lisa was confronted with being forced to come to the WORST individual wrong indication, that she was an “SP” and NOT Bennetta’s business. Lisa had to conclude that she was “SP” even to Scientology.

    Scientology, with Bennetta’s business being the immediate life group around Lisa, factually were the “SP groups” that Lisa had NO way to counter. She went on a self destruction spin, that Janet’s EXCELLENT book detail like NO other writeup I’ve read on the internet.

    I’m pretty sure it will inevitably come up, and I think you and Mike can say a lot that will help in the future on this unnecessary tragedy.

    Lisa I think was pressed into the SAME scenario EVERYONE faces, when they are being suppressed by the Scientology religion and their Scientology religion bosses, friends, etc. The choices pushed on “us” who start fighting Scientology’s suppression, are that we are “SPs”, the supreme wrong indication when it is a false indication.

    That tiny window of painful time when we have to decide to get OUT and away from this whole encompassing wrong indication scenario, well, it frankly drives some of us temporarily, or worse, more wrongly and falsely into false, but a real, insanity, where our worldviews go through some wholesale ripping apart.

    Anyways, I hope you and Mike are urged to write on Lisa’s tragedy.

    Janet’s book shows so much of the good that Lisa did, as an employee, her good contributions as a Scientology business staffer of Bennetta’s business.

    PLEASE, do a posting on Lisa, so ALL who knew her can publicly, and freely pay some tribute to her.

    My respect for Lisa has jumped WAY UP, from reading Janet’s book!!

    Chuck Beatty
    Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
    Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
    Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
    Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87
    Course Supervisor Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
    Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
    LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
    Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
    PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
    Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
    INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
    INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
    ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
    Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
    Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
    PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
    Routed out March 29, 2003.
    I live in Pittsburgh, feel free to call after 9pm east coast time, 412-260-1170

  224. Yea, Hiro Kimoto wrote some funny behind the scenes details of the hours that they all had to stand and sing that song over and over, to get it “just right” for DM. It drove them to that really fake “uptone” smiley demeanor that Scientology is thought so “icky” for. Icky fake smiley faces. But it’s the big cheezes and I saw this when it first posted a year or two ago. The annonymous videos are all brilliant, and such a relief that at least some people have some humor. I love the little editorial comments. But this thread, is on Janet’s book.

    Janet’s book is a MUST read, and I think the bigger issues Janet’s book lays out, SHOULD be detailed.

    The “wrong indication” scenario, in particular, if you are familiar with the Introspection Rundown tech HCOBs, you see that Lisa in a whole different light, when her whole story is laid out, and Janet’s book is SO good in giving Lisa multiple chapters, and clearly laying it out.

    The clothing phase, during the late 1980s, the nifty sweaters of DM and Ray Mitoff, it reminds me again how much I wish we had the LRH traffic to ASI in the public domain. LRH told ASI staff in detail how they should reward themselves, and there was a period in the 1980s when the trickle down LRH intention for ASI staff trickled a little down to the Int staff and on down the movement, but that trickle down effect, really was turned off in the 1990s and hasn’t seemed to have started up again since.

    when I look at these videos, I look at the clothes, the creature comforts that I recall people lived at that time, compared to later years. The key LRH PL that slowly went completely out the window, is “Rewards and Penalties.” Under DM it became “all penalities” and gradients of penalties, finding the appropriate ethics gradient to impinge and shock the upper ranks staff back into acceptable production, in DM’s eyes, which is just suppressiveness on DM’s part. All penalties, no rewards.

    Ethics Presence PL also comes to mind, and in that PL, there is also something relevant back to this thread. Lisa was driven to suicidal wrong indication self targeting, and LRH says a person “does himself in” when they receive too much external invalidation. Even in Hubbard’s own psycho-babble (I’m not convinced of LRH’s competence, sorry, so I have to sometimes say what I feel) theory, invalidation by others to oneself, cause one to eventually do oneself in.

    I think like I said in my above comment, that Lisa’s life in the Scientology business run by Bennetta, directly contributed to Lisa’s self invalidation and I hope others look at this and discuss this.

    Too MUCH wrong indication in Scientology history, and leaving the people who have been driven or found themselves at the edges of sanity, felt NO help coming from Scientology and thus saw their world’s falling literally to pieces, so that they chose suicide and desperate public reactions.

    Scientology can’t discuss this. But the freezone can, and with Janet’s book out, I think this will become a hot topic for weeks ahead.

  225. Yes Laura Ann, that’s another “straight down and vertical” statistic of David Miscavige’s – no Dianetics and Scientology books in any bookstore anywhere.

    My local used bookstore has a very few copies, but the owner told me he doesn’t bother to take them anymore.

  226. I think you are too nice, Grasshopper.

    DM may indeed be ineffective and incompetent at creative and constructive activities, but he is a very effective and ‘competent’ past master of having destructive effects on positive and social activities. Look how good he has been at suppressing Scientology and Scientologists. In my view, those were not the accidental results of bumbling incompetence alone, but a deliberate campaign on his part.

    OK, well, I guess I’m making him guilty of his overts. Bad on me!

  227. So true.

    Its typical those Authors who have never had any track with the Tech will at best give little more than a specious surface account. Way too much A = A and her slanted opinions thrown into the mix. That’s why such Books written by “Outsiders” barely net a yawn and more often appeal to non-Scientologists. Well, that’s where the money is.

  228. Karen:

    Thank you sweetheart for the book link! 🙂 Amazon is the place to go for more than books.

    I wanted to say something as well about this book and Janet Reitman. Upon reading Janet Reitman’s works it is very, very easy to see she knows much more about Dianetics and Scientology than most Org or Mission staff and many Sea Org and public people. Of all people in the world SHE should be one of the easiest people for the church to disseminate too. Yet, in spite of all that she knows her attendance in a course room at an Org or her presence in an auditing room as a PC is the furthest thing from corporate Scientology’s mind.

    They appreciated her interest in their religion greatly as it has nothing whatsoever to do with her.

    If that does not explain what corporate Scientology is sweetheart, nothing does.


  229. Yes! Marty you have it straight.
    Off in another direction, I have always wondered WTF are we actually confronting? For an as-is. (make it disappear)
    well I can’t type worth the fart, worse yet, I’m five beers in before Im even willing to say anything, add I type slow, it all adds up to thirsty enjoyment never acked, pardon me, rarely. So it is. Who cares? Despite that, sometimes I hit the nail on the head straight on. Sometimes it gets bent, too often, big deal.
    It’s going down.
    for those who have listen to Hubbard for hundreds of hours as I have, easily, you notice a pattern where the crazies he was talking about, (case handling) constantly, I concluded were worse then me! So I had to wonder, if Radical Scientology wasn’t for me…then for who? LRH was for me… He sure was, made that point very clearly. Even those less then me. Somehow these became Illegal PCs to the Cult.
    This fact was enough for me, to hold me strong, aganeste management disgraced …with all the good Auditors who actually got LRH. As I did.

    I always seen myself as Admin, but the disgrace was well entrance in 1991. I was gone by the end of that year, after six months in the pethetic Edmonton Org; LA Day; ITO and Flag. A shitshow every minute even back then.

    What was I talking about? Hang on I need a drink…
    Oh ya, here we go… WTF are we confronting!


    YOU replace Psych with Nazi, or replace Whole-track Psych phenomenon with Nazi in Whole Track. And you’ll get it. Let me explain…
    What the hell is a Nazi? Well it doesn’t matter much here of terminology, not that I am bad at that… My brother tot me this in a harsh way, he was acting like a Soup Nazi. Yes, from Sienfield fame. What the hell is that?

    DM is pretty much that to a T. Isn’t he? “No soup for you!” Ever think of it??

    Nazi is better terminology as it is pegged in modern times easily understood, as a lost goal or case. But it is older, in self-importance. Be it in mind or blood line, then the Pyrimads. Its an old old game, for earth, near it’s final end.

    That word sums it up. A Nazi is a guy like DM, full of righteous blood and self importance. With a nice long track who thinks this earth is his.
    Or his friends. What a goon!

    I don’t care if he and his friends are borrowed in the Earth or the Moon. Hubbard acknowledge Jesus of Nazareth in Science of Survival. He certainly did..
    sounds so odd.

    Saitainism is a bit much, even for DM. But don’t get fooled. There is an end or time for everything. I believe July, September, and November are very serious.

    Sorry for the rant.

  230. Thank you gfor posting this piece of wisdom

  231. You guys are putting a smile on my face..
    I can already feel the happiness..

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