OT VIII – Truth Revealed

So anyway, Scientology is well named.  It is the road to truth.  It is a study of the truth. And total truth is total power. And when the guy hasn’t got any lies left in him he’s OT.  And all the mechanics of OT work out too. So, the subject is very, very well named.   – L. Ron Hubbard, Class VIII Course

Having worked closely with about a dozen OT VIIIs over the past year, it has been demonstrated for me several times that LRH’s definition of OT above holds true to this day, because it is truth.   Reversing the damage Miscavige has visited upon those who have traversed to that level of the Bridge is relatively easy; once they arrive with us. 

The difficult part for them is travelling through the valley of the shadows of death before their arrival.   It is during that lengthy sojourn where they attempt to exercise their attained awareness level at truth revealed, despite all peer pressure, case evaluation, twisted ethics, and propaganda to remain in a clueless state.    It requires strength and courage.  It requires getting into valence after having been through years of OT Levels that ought to do that, but as practiced in the church create and instill the most arrogant, ignorant valences imaginable. 

There are a number of alleged  OT VIII’s who are very much in the favor of Radical Corporate Scientology leader David Miscavige at the moment.  They are the buffoons who are willing to make asses of themselves in the streets, a very small minority. And then the “very best” Scientologists with the highest IAS statuses who act like arrogant snobs – the type of folk who held L Ron Hubbard in comtempt and whom LRH described many a time as those who were selling the planet down the river. 

Two sides of the Miscavige valence coin.  Assinine, vulgar bully valence on the one side.  Synthetic ARC, very incompetently masking the underlying sneering, whining, contemptuous, lying master-race type valence on the other.

Whichever side of the coin these bypassed case “OTs” choose, they have one thing in common: they are Out Of Valence.  Overwhelmed to the point of adopting the “winning” valence of an SP.

They are solidified in those SP valences by loads upon loads of FALSE DATA, read FALSITY, read the absence of TRUTH.

And so, let’s again look at how LRH defined OT:

So anyway, Scientology is well named.  It is the road to truth.  It is a study of the truth. And total truth is total power. And when the guy hasn’t got any lies left in him he’s OT.  And all the mechanics of OT work out too. So, the subject is very, very well named.   – L. Ron Hubbard, Class VIII Course

Thus we have Reverse OT VIII in the hands of Miscavige.  Out of Valence, False Data prone and filled with LIES.

The sad thing is that the Miscavige valence they have adopted does not permit  self inspection or evaluation of any type (right out of HCO PL The Anti Social Personality); except from the SP whose valence they have adopted.   And that SP takes careful measures to prohibit the splitting of the controlling valences. 

Even more sad is that those the Miscavige cult “OTs”  attack with such self-righteous vehemence could straighten them out in no time flat.

The first remedy for Radical Corporate Scientology’s version of OT VIII is fully contained in the PTS/SP Detection, Routing and handling pack.

The second remedy is fully contained in the tech of assisting an individual to strip valences in order that he or she may find out who he or she really is.

232 responses to “OT VIII – Truth Revealed

  1. Whichever side of the coin these bypassed case “OTs” choose, they have one thing in common: they are Out Of Valence.
    A cog from the 4th Party – we are all in this together but as individuals, we have to attain our own spiritual awareness, by hook or by crook for ourselves – in our own universe, validated or not by whoever the hell – it all boils down to ME attaining the highest spiritual awareness I can get!
    Fuck the piece of paper. Fuck the OT level attest. Who cares about that in the end?
    These guys are are “at” some OT level because a piece of paper says they are, but as individuals, they’re suffering in darkness and confusion and because of it, committing ridiculous, insane, dehumanizing acts against other beings trying to achieve higher awareness in this universe. In the end, we’re all in this together – they’ve forgotten this fact!
    Out of valence completely!

  2. On power:

    “And total truth is total power.” L.R.H.

    “People keep saying, ‘How’d you get power?’ ” Miscavige said. “Nobody gives you power. I’ll tell you what power is. Power in my estimation is if people will listen to you. That’s it.” DM


    Well, that just about explains everything. There failed to be a meeting of the minds.

  3. Cogent, and a very, very cool ack to LRH and his brilliance. You wield the tech in ways only the little camera man could dream of.

    His attempts to stop the independent field is failing, will continue to fail and only fail because the tech is something we respect, and not sell like a used car.

  4. jim cherkas

    I think that these OT 8s are touted as rich and successful happy family etc but all these guys and gals had to be rich and put up with all the regges especially IAS to make it there in the first place. Can they communicate and be aware and are powerhouses? They are still not trusted and in fact are more scrutinized and actually made to go to events and do more. It seems that they should want to do those things not be forced by higher ethics gradients. There is less freedom as they go up. Its opposite of what it should be.

  5. Michael Fairman

    I’ve personally faced these OT’s as they slip in and out of those two valences (indeed a sight to behold) and observed them in the various videos posted here — the squirrel buster encounters, and especially in the Mad Picket sequence when that covey of OT witches attacked the pickets.
    Both sides of the coin seem to add up to 1.1, if I’m not mistaken — out of present time, psychotic, vicious perversions of the truth, and on and on across the Chart. Sad and pathetic.A heinous crime perpetrated by Miscavige, the master of this two-sided coin.

  6. An allegation has has been mentioned a few times that DM issued only part of OT8 retaining the remainder to isuue as OT9.
    Is there further evidence available and has anyone come out that has the remaining part of it?

  7. martyrathbun09

    Dude, you are missing the forest for the trees. Scientology is all out there, published and available.

  8. Wow! I love the LRH quote Marty. Never seen it before. It sooo explains the incomprehensible actions of OTVIII’s I have encountered. I’m OT V and I must admit that I bought some of DM’s bullshit up until about 10 years ago, when I walked away from the Church (after seeing dozens of outpoints and “arbitraries”) and made the decision that I would never go back this lifetime. It’s so refreshing to see you and Mike et al, standing up and holding your positions on STANDARD LRH tech. I am an old time warrior who will stand behind you all they way, and do whatever I can to help rid Scientology of the little insane midget.

  9. It’s an interesting subject, but I’ll have to just wait till I get there. I don’t know what else to do with it. There’s not a whole lot of evidence to back up the different stories out there. All I have is my hunch that something is wrong with OT8 and possibly 7 in the church. Maybe it’s just the Church itself and not the levels? Maybe people doing these levels in the church are in an environment where they cannot really get the gains?

  10. AWESOME post! Marty I felt this coming in the theta universe!

  11. plainoldthetan

    I know someone who just finished OTVIII. She called me this week to complain about the ship and Flag calling her twice a week to see if she’d donated $50,000 to the IAS yet this week. Apparently she’s been threatened with “being recalled to the ship” because she’s out-ethics. Yet, she knows she doesn’t have enough money to do a $50,000 weekly donation to the IAS. So she says she’s in the conundrum of being threatened with being treated as an ethics particle because she won’t go out-ethics on her finances.

    The Chirch is making sure she stays crazy, instead of just leaving her the F alone.

  12. Tory Christman

    When in doubt, communicate.
    Something those “in” can no longer do.

    I opened up the Tech Dictionary, just randomly, and this is what it opened to:

    “Glee of insanity”: 1) A specialized case of irresponsibility. A thetan who cannot be killed and yet can be punished has only one answer to those punishing him and that is to demonstrate to them that he is no longer responsible. He therefore states that he is INSANE and demonstrates that he cannot possibly harm them as he lacks any further responsibility. This is the root of INSANITY. (Snc 8-8008)

    Unfortunately, *that* is the “Valence” they pop into that ALL outside watch and go…what happened to you all????

    To lurkers, PLEASE read, look, listen, learn ALL the facts, and come on out…the water is just fine! My best,
    Tory/Magoo (Free for 11 years, as of today!)

  13. Felicitas Foster

    Very true, very true. This is a great quote.

  14. Chris, we should talk, we live right in the same town. The bridge is completely screwed up. These people have sat in session, their cogs invalidated because of the “3 swings” definition didn’t allow the auditor to give them the F/N and therefore the win/cog out the window. And then having to sit at exams with some retard looking at you for three minutes. Then the endless sec checks on OT 7 that make you feel like an aberrated crimminal when in fact you are clear. The violations of OT III data keeps these people socked in so that when they finally “finish” OT VII they are out of valence. I could go on. Contact me at ot7tom at gmail dot comm.

    ML Tom

  15. scilonschools

    Mr Rathbun a stunning OTIX post!!!

  16. Under Radar

    Great post, Marty. And, sadly, so true.
    And the reason DM can safely put folks on the SP/PTS course again and again. Already being in an SP’s valence, they’re certainly not in a position to spot him as the suppression.

  17. scilonschools

    And it seemed an impossible job a year ago!

    Thank you Marty et al , replantimg program going VERY well!!

  18. That is some nice data-mining

  19. Is OTTRO confusing? No. Hubbard made that simple. Is OT8 confusing? Yes. Why? They all got put through OT8, then put back onto OT7, then put onto OT8 expanded, then two or three different versions of OT8 were delivered. DM is in confusion so what can you expect? OT8 was released under him. Of course there is confusion all around the subject.
    Now there are several versions of OT8 on the net and in the Church and different people have done different OT8’s. And he came along and announced Golden Age Of Tech against the backdrop of that and some people bought into it.

  20. Requiem for the Church of Scientology:

    (Note to Miscavige – you are running out of clowns):

  21. The bottom line is, OT8 is whatever DM decides it is going to be for whatever problem he is trying to solve. Or for whatever revenue or treasure he is working to obtain. Be it dollars, faith, allegience, power, etc etc.

  22. If I could grasp it right “Radical Corporate Scientology” could be summed up as “case”.

  23. There is also the tale of DM’s cognition that power is assumed, to be grabbed. In the final Harry Potter book, Dumbledore explains why he declined the offer to be Minister of Magic: “I had proven, as a very young man, that power was my weakness and my temptation. It is a curious thing, Harry, but perhaps those who are best suited to power are those who have never sought it. Those, who, like you, have leadership thrust upon them, and take up the mantle because they must, and find to their own surprise that they wear it well.”

  24. As inscribed at the base of the UT Tower: Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. But one must be willing to LOOK, and confront the truth that they see before them.

  25. Fabulous! This is completely 100% spot on! Jan

  26. Where does it say that it’s the 3rd Dyn that says if you’re OT or not.
    Really, it’s a matter between you, your C/S and LRH. Even a cursory look at KSW 1 indicates “rising above bank agreement.”
    The evaluation on Church lines is at a very base level of human evaluation in relation to their OTs, if you can call them that. Cause over life surely must include the spotting and acting on basic outpoints within the group you’re with.
    It also seems a little discussed point that Church C/Ss have allowed the most horrific Exec C/Sing to pass through their offices to their PCs.
    Great to see there’s a solution in the open sunlight at Martys.

  27. John Fennessey

    You are absolutely right about valences. And to the extent your out of valence, your beingness is a lie and there is nothing OT about that.
    I dont know about your comment that they could be straightened out in no time flat. Maybee. Each case is different. But I would think that many have some real confronting to do which was bypassed along the way. But i know you could C/S them in no time flat.

  28. + 1 🙂

  29. George White

    Yes, I agree that in the end the OTVIII level is simple and really the absence of lies. In 1996, I was asked to review a 38 page document written by David Miscavige which “corrected OTVII”, and was declared as the condition for the perceived problems with OTVIII. My impression was that it was a confused, rambling document in which he was concentrating on some very minor points. Of course, I went through the routine including MU lookup and interviews. In addition, what I perceived was that he had a very different standard about what OTVIII really was. In fact, he was really measuring it against himself in that his own intentions and qualites were perceived as real OT. I could see that he was trying to fix a problem from the point of view of a bias. In addition, I could tell that he had no experience on the level and could not possibly comprehend the gains. He was impulsive in that he was jumping to conclusions with no real knowledge. I saw clearly that he was trying to be LRH, but Mr. Miscavige lacked the sunstantive qualities.
    I made a decision to study Buddhism at that time. I had completed OTVIII in 1989, and had gained a much broader perspective on the level during those seven years.
    In truth, I enjoyed Scientology between 1973 and 1996. I stayed out of the controversy and was content with being ‘public”.
    Many, many of my friends went through the 1989-2011(present) and re-did levels with endless sec-checks. After all of that time, I see many now drifting away to the independent movement. I spared myself a lot of time and money with a simple decision in 1996.
    As you know, I have been a practicing Theravada Buddhist since 2001.
    My message to David Miscavige is very simple. We crossed paths in 1996 and I read your technology. I gave it a fair reading and I could see its flaws.
    In addition, I paid money for your analysis.
    Call Buddhism a valence if you want; it does not bother me. The path that I have chosen is to follow the Buddha. I do not find flaws in Buddhism – only truth.

    “Now when a man is truly wise,
    His constant task will surely be
    This recollection of natural laws
    Blessed with such mighty potency.”

    I respect the right of anyone to follow their own chosen path –
    including members of the corporate chuch and the independent movement.

    May all beings be well and happy!

    Much loving-kindness,
    George M. White

  30. TheWidowDenk

    Chris and Tom,

    It’s interesting what you bring up in your comments. I think I can add to your discussion.

    I was on SOLO NOTS when Dr. Denk fell ill and subsequently passed in November 2004. I had been auditing for 2 or so years by that time. My viewpoint is, was and always will be that Dr. Denk’s cycle would have been far more difficult for me and others if I had not been on OT VII at that time. Even after Dr. Denk’s passing, I continued on the level for another year plus.

    However, the administrative actions taken during his illness and after his departure were done on an op-term basis.

    After Dr. Denk’s departure, I was escorted off post and out of ASI. My home trash was gone through. I had an immediate D of P and CS change at Flag.

    I was contacted by IAS reg Howard Becker who suggested I take out a home equity loan because COB “has a really big situation.”

    When I eventually made it to Flag after Dr. Denk’s departure for a refresher (I’d missed two trips due to his illness), I was subjected to sec checking on out-security at ASI because I objected to being escorted off post and out of the org.

    On top of all of that, I ended up on snarly business lines for Shaw Health Center with zero back up for their resolution. In fact, it was this unresolved situation that led me to independence. On April 1, 2006, I went off the level and eventually returned my materials to Flag at the request of my D of P.

    Dr. Denk spoke very little of the future to me. But he did say, “Get through the level, Dear.” I did my best to do so! I even made it to Flag for yet another refresher in later 2005. While departing Flag at that time, I made sure I had two intensives and lots of accommodations paid for; I additionally paid for OT VIII.

    The “administration” of this cycle – a term I use loosely — was not in the least oriented toward the delivery of service. The “administration,” in actual fact, was done on an op-term basis.

    Op-Term: A situation of opposition to a terminal or person, giving a reason to fight.

    It’s fascinating to me that I would be op-termed. I went through one helluva cycle with Dr. Denk’s illness and departure. I returned to post shortly after I sprinkled the ashes. After his memorial service, I lined up a trip to Flag for a refresher. But, enter “administration” and snarly business problems, and there went the whole ball game.

    Thank goodness for independent thought and action, and those who support it!

  31. Following is an excerpt from HCO BULLETIN OF 22 DECEMBER 1960
    “Before I would permit you to believe that the overt-withhold mechanism was a total way of life, I would point out that it applies only to a strata of existence and that it stems from failures to help.
    The theory that what you do to others will then happen to you is a punishment control mechanism peculiar to this universe. It derives from a deteriorated willingness to duplicate. It is the law of physics of Interaction—for every action there is an equal and contrary reaction.
    “Love thy neighbour”, when it is no longer a willingness, is enforced by the
    theory of O-W. “Love thy neighbour” can exist only when help, control and
    communication are high. When all these go, then O-W comes into vogue as a method of enforcing peace.
    O-W is a theory which sets in when aberration sets in. It is not a high natural law.
    It is junior to the various laws of Communication, Control and Help.
    O-W can occur only when help has failed. Help is a co-joining of vectors of life.
    When two beings who have joined forces to help fail each other, only then does O-W come into existence.
    The forces of two beings cannot come into dispute until after they have first joined. Thus there is no war like that seen between brothers or husband and wife.

    The cycle is this:
    Basically, O-W is an effort to regain the status of independent being without taking responsibility for any of the intervening steps.
    The reason we run O-Ws is that most pcs are on O-W by Transfer, which is to say, when they kick George in the head they get a headache themselves. This makes them think they are George. We use O-W since it explains phenomena found at a low humanoid level. We do not use it because it is a senior governing law of the universe.
    When Help comes up, O-W as a mechanism drops out.”

    I agree with your analysis of the situation, Marty.
    In the miscavology empire these OT VIIIs are desperately trying to assume the “acceptable” valence. If they just rise up to HELP and operate freely, independently and ethically with good communication, they are hit with all manner of wrong whys and eval and inval.

    Furthermore, it’s imperative for miscavige to get them to commit overts against their own integrity and against others, since he has zero power against independent beings who can and do communicate freely.

    He has zero power against these independent beings who can and will use the tech with purity of purpose…the purpose to help others “move on up a little bit higher.”

  32. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, basic implant tech – get the person to lose sight of the forest by fixating his attention on a handful of trees.

  33. That LRH quotes says it all.

    There is a correlation between the lies Miscavige gets people to swallow and their departure from the state of OT. And he pushes MANY lies, from how well orgs are doing to tech alterations of stunning proportions. But the many lies stand on a single foundation of rock, the big lie; it’s how he gets others to cooperate with him in pushing other lies.

    Miscavige is vicious in getting others to introvert and accept that they failed “the test”, a test he set of course but one they failed so miserably they let down LRH, Scientology and, above all, Miscavige. That’s the central and most fundamental lie. It is physically or mentally punched home so ruthlessly and so often that the person introspectively makes a terrible mistake – they conclude that the problem must be them.

    As a result they avidly wish to “make up the damage” or “change their ways”. And Miscavige makes sure that can only be done by demonstrating support of him and his lies. And so it builds. And so it goes.

    I’m sorry to say I’ve been there and done that.

    In some cases Miscavige uses the person’s withholds as evidence of having failed. Haven’t met a social personality yet who thought their overts or withholds were unimportant. Of course they are not important but that’s just another lie Miscavige uses to drive home his point.

    So Miscavige’s power is, in a weird ay, testament to the social personalities. And a small percentage of his fellow criminals, of course.

  34. TheWidowDenk

    I should add, after reading the comments about the technical outpoints, that I did fine on the level but for a bit of trouble with FN’s. I was relatively new to the level as I’d concentrated on the training side of the Bridge in order to bring it to the level of OT VII. So, when I started OT VI and then OT VII in about 2002, it was all new to me. I, personally, ran into the “administration” above which didn’t lead to getting the tech applied and, in fact, totally cut across it.

  35. LDW,
    Excellent reference and post. Thank you. Enlightening.

  36. Yvonne Schick


  37. Slipping “in and out of those two valences” sounds a lot like what any self-respecting shrink would diagnose as multiple personality disorder, does it not? At the very least, the average unenlightened person might label the manifestation as “two-faced” or “crazy”.
    The driving force behind the insanity is the same as the driving force behind the growth and life of the old Nazi Party. Same tactics, same threats, same peer pressure; but all should be vigilant because when the crematoriums and gas chambers (disguised as showers) are built, please please turn them in before they ever get used.
    Far fetched? Human medical experimentation may be approached on a gradient, starting with the miraculous heavy copper grounding rods. Small incremental changes can (and have) add(ed) up to much greater atrocities. Read up on Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, and other “leaders”, who have been able to control others to do what they never otherwise would have done. Far fetched? One would have thought so. Changes can be slow and incremental, like turing the temperature up on the poor frog in boiling water, but the frog DOES notice, but not in time to escape.
    If you have not been in or toured a prison camp, it may not be totally real, where things could lead. Being chased by motorcycles in the dark, being sleep deprived for days on end, locked up, held without consent, forced to not communicate, etc., are indication enough. Beatings? Barbed wire or razor wire enclosures? When will the U.S. government wake up and Waco-ize the compound? Think of the good people who have come out and come forward. There have to be other good ones inside who are suffering and in desperate need of help. Do they deserve what they go through?
    The dual personality syndrome is just the tip of the iceberg and the iceberg is far beyond Titanic proportions. Does anyone know what to do to rectify the situation? Recommendations? Suggestions?

  38. Authentic Tortilla

    Does this mean that an OT is incapable of telling an untruth, ever, under any circumstances, including “white lies”, diplomatic behavior, and lying by omission?

    How does one square this with LRH’s maxim to cause/communicate only things which others are able to experience easily?

    How does one square this with LRH’s statements about how the Social Personality tends to withhold negative data and puts a positive spin on things?

    (Sorry if this seems like a diversion, but I’m more interested in discussing the LRH quote itself than hearing about DM’s “sneering, whining, contemptuous, lying, master-race type valence” for the 1,000,000th time. There comes a time, even if you’re totally right, to stop going on and on and on and on about just how right you are and how wrong the other guy is. We get it already, we get it, we GET it.)

  39. Ralph Hilton

    Marty, I’ve examined most of the trees in the forest individually and in detail. I’m just curious if there are any LRH developments of value in what has been withheld.

  40. Tom Gallagher

    Enforced Affinities, enforced communications, enforced realities, enforced ethics, enforced morals, enforced dynamics (and ONLY one 3rd dynamic), enforced thought, enforced lies. Etc. Ad nauseum.

    Enforced, all brutally enforced. Yeah, that’s the ticket to freedom.

    Welcome to the world of Pope Applebox and his dwindling merry band of enforcers. The only show on earth where trained circus seals are tortured until they learn to bleat like sheep. The place where institutionalized irrelevance has morphed into something far more sinister. Far more black.

    Thanks Marty for pointing out another example of the splendid achievements of P.O.B.

    I ain’t nobody’s slave.

  41. Tara, right on!

  42. Ralph Hilton

    LRH stressed the importance of seeing both.

  43. Yes, the truth shall set you free!

    Serenity of Beingness.
    Recovery of Self.
    Freedom from Overwhelm.
    Freedom from Fixed Interiorisation into MEST.
    Free to love others at will despite all invitations to do otherwise.
    Trust in others as you would expect them to trust you.
    Stable, positive gains.

    This and so much more LRH gave us.

    Shit-for-brains, on the other hand, dare not grant any of this. His product is Freedom from Threat to himself.

    He’s sending broken pawns to try to achieve that, brainwashed into believing that their own survival uniquely depends on his, but little realising that they themselves will be next for the chop should they obtain a VFP – since that would be demonstrating competence. Oh, a dangerous trait in his eyes!

    ‘Do this and I’ll reward you with less punishment.’
    ‘Do this and you’re dead!’

    A bog-standard SP (with a stat of Bodies Passing By The Door. “600? We can get more than that! I want double, no triple that next week!”).

    He’s won a few battles, ya di ya, but he’s lost the war – and we didn’t even pick it!

    Thank you for holding the door open, Marty.

  44. Ralph Hilton

    Yes, the suppressive environment isn’t one where case gain is easy.
    There also seems to be quite a difference between OT7 in 1983 and OT7 currently. The 1983 version was quite simply stated. Write ups I’ve seen of the GAT version appear to be littered with altered importances, arbitraries and data of comparable stupidity to the 3 swing F/N.

  45. Perhaps this explains the Ignore Tech that is being employed. If DM thinks power is if people will listen to you, then ignoring Marty is an attempt to disempower Marty.

    Marty, pay close attention to your feelings. If you feel angry in response to any tactic they employ, then it’s a sign that they’re pressing a button that you need to address. We all have buttons and addressing them is part of our personal growth. I’m not saying they are being successful at pressing your buttons. Just a thought that might be worth reminding yourself about.

    Marty and Mosey, you’re doing amazingly well. Don’t let their attention dominate your life. ❤

  46. Mrs. Denk, You could have stayed for years and never gotten through OT VIII. You dared to question, you dared to care, you dared to grieve. Because they never knew what you did or did not know, because you resisted endangering your finances, you were treated as ethics bait. That’s what made you an enemy.

    I saw this extortive theme played out many times, where one’s eternity is held over one’s head, making members feel there is no other way out but to comply. A person can only take so much. I’m glad you survived this and are hear to speak out.

  47. Watching Eyes

    Rachel, you were treated like a dog because they were afraid of what you might know. They don’t know what you know and that drives them nuts. It would be like having a missed withhold in constant restim. They don’t know what Dr. Denk told you or might have told you. That scares them and restimulates their withholds.

    Does anyone doubt that Shorty has o/w’s on LRH? No. If anyone does doubt it (hello OSA) all they have to do is look at the way you were treated. By their actions, your presence missed those withholds.

    Rather than being nice to you and showing respect, they applied miscavige-tech and did just the opposite. And wisely, out the door you went. Let them keep worrying about it. For all they know, maybe you’re going to write a tell-all book. I bet just the thought of that is enough to send Shorty into a full blown asthma attack.

  48. If OTs were really in valence, then I would think that they would all be different. Different types of people with different interests, passions, aptitudes, ideas. However, they all seem to look and act the same. The two valences described seem to be required and when individuality appears it is crushed.

  49. As an auditor, I can attest to the speed of recovery of the damage done to PCs and PreOts in the CofM. Alot of money,sweat and tears went into that damage and it can seem so solid, but like a house of cards all it needs is a few breaths of truth to bring it tumbling down.

  50. You couldn’t have put it more CLEAR.

  51. Rachael,

    Agreed: “Thanks Goodness for independent thought and action…”. I totally agree.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am sure plenty of case gain and wins and deleting of case are available on OT VII. I just don’t believe any kind of good EP can come out of it – in the Church – with the amount of inval dished out to the people on the level, if I am understanding everything I am reading correctly.

    My daughter completed OT VII and the first thing she did when she got home was get lasik eye treatment so she could see better. I shook my head.

    Your recounting of what happened to you is like an onion being peeled. I learn more outrageous facts of the story each time you post. The actions that were taken against you, just because the good Doctor passed, enrage me mainly because I know you and Gene were honest and decent people. It is like reading a story about the most heartless, thoughtless, uncaring group that ever walked this planet. If I wasn’t a witness to a lot of this stuff I would find it hard to believe, but I do know the Church does do these things.

    I consider Dr. Denk was a close friend of mine and I adored him. I consider the Church not only directly caused his demise but did nothing to abate it. I consider their treatment of you and op-terming you an insult of magnitude. That they went through your home trash (please tell me they din’t break into the house) tells me exactly where this organization is at. No Church does this kind of thing, but then again no Church has that many missed withholds.

    Rachael, I am super happy that you are comfortable with your new group. We all love you and love hearing your contributions. I’ll always have your back, let me know of anything that you need.

    ML Tom

  52. “Truth will rise above falsehood as oil above water”. -Miguel de Cervantes

  53. Les-Great reference!

  54. martyrathbun09

    Thank you Dr Ruth.

  55. martyrathbun09

    There is nothing to discuss. If you find that simple statement of LRH’s confusing and needing of clarification, I recommend you begin by studyng Scientology 0-8.

  56. martyrathbun09

    I gave my recommendations

  57. Authentic Tortilla

    I did not say I was confused about the meaning of LRH’s statement; I already have my own viewpoint of it that is true for me. I was asking for your opinion because I was simply curious if your take on it was similar to mine.

    I have stated something I wished to discuss and I understand that you have responded “There is nothing to discuss.” I apologize if I have offended, and if my question was off-purpose for you.

  58. The Cult of Scientology is just another version of the Nigerian advance fee fraud: You pay and pay and pay in hopes of finally attaining Nirvana. But what happens is that more “donations” are always needed to handle some unforeseen problem. Nirvana is always just out of reach.

    Like the Nigerian 419 fraud, all that victims get from the Cult are pieces of paper. In the case of the Cult, a person gets fancy frame pieces of paper called certs. These certs are leases to use copyrighted names. Thus, “OT” in the Cult is just a leased status, a right to use a copyrighted name and call yourself an OT — but only so long as one keeps up payments to the IAS and does the six month sec checks to ensure that no actual free thinking is going on.

    Lease the OT Levels! Lease Truth!

    What an odd thing to say and yet that is the case. A Scientologist never owns the OT Levels they “donate” for to Scientology. The fact is that CST owns all of the trademarks and names, including “Opertaing Thetan.”

    What Scientology does in exchange for your $360,000 — or whatever you paid to become an OT — is to effectively grant you a lease to use their copyrighted term “OT” for as long you stay obedient to the Church.

    “OT” is, legally speaking, a technical designation leased to a person by Scientology after the person has taken courses and paid the “donations” which donations are non-negotiable.

    Because Scientology can Declare an OT and revoke all of their awards and certs, an OT actually owns nothing. The reality is that Scientology can take away a person’s OT status by the whim of any executive who finds a particular Scientologist offensive

    An SP Declare is simply a lease revocation.

    An SP Declare is Scientology’s way of telling you that your lease is up on “OT” and that you are no longer an OT or even a pc.

    You are not a Scientologist anymore and everything you thought you paid for is now taken back.

    All of your awards and certs belong to Scientology and always did; they merely leased you all of those awards, grades, certs, and hats.

    You never owned any of them and yet you did all of the work and paid for everything, even the damn sec checks they forced you to take very six months at your cost. And those plane tickets all the time! You could have used them to go to Hawaii but instead you used them to go OT!

    You will never own anything of Scientology except the overpriced lease certificates they sell you..


  59. Well, I think a lot of the damage done by Miscavige is clearly described in great detail in the KSW series. He apparently created new checksheets, new courses, new training runway for auditors, “fixed” the materials, enforced his interpretations of basic fundamentals (FN’s, instant reads etc), issues directives that are counter to an apparently senior to LRH policies and many other things that seem to be:


    On the other hand there have been thousands and thousands of suggestions and writings which, if accepted and acted upon, would have resulted in the complete destruction of all our work as well as the sanity of pcs. So I know what a group of people will do and how insane they will go in accepting unworkable “technology”. By actual record the percentages are about twenty to 100,000 that a group of human beings will dream up bad technology to destroy good technology.

    And I think this covers what wins people do get in the church.

    everyone was about to throw away standard processes and model session because this one student “got such remarkable TA”. They only read the reports and listened to the brags and never looked at this student. The pcs in actual fact were making slightly less than average gain, impeded by a rough model session and misworded processes. Thus, what was making the pcs win (actual Scientology) was hidden under a lot of departures and errors.

    I mean, it’s still an interesting place I guess. You can sit and read the books in the courseroom. https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/corporate-scientologys-ideal-student/
    You can come to fundraising events and hear people read LRH quotes about OT. You can go to Flag and do your Grades in three days. You can re-do your Objectives and Purif and you might feel a little better, who knows. You might even have a good session if the auditor doesnt run across any FN’s that he isnt sure are FN’s and you don’t have any prior reads that he has to take up as instant.

  60. I think he was talking about this:

    My impression was that it was a confused, rambling document in which he was concentrating on some very minor points.

  61. Fellow Traveller

    Thank you Marty. I find it quite rejuvenating to be reminded of the mountain.

    I also find it quite interesting the whining from some that happens when you post a quote from LRH like this and discuss how it applies today.

    Bruce Pratt

  62. Thanks for the source data on the subject of OT.

    It does show where the totally insane behavior of the PoB’s OTAsses, who are really degrading the level and religion by their very actions, stem from.


  63. Cowboy Poet

    “The sad thing is that the Miscavige valence they have adopted does not permit self inspection or evaluation of any type (right out of HCO PL The Anti Social Personality); except from the SP whose valence they have adopted.”

    Nice connection of the dots there, Marty. Answers that phenomena in about 25 words or less.
    You are a Smarty Pants!
    And good afternoon to you!

  64. “The difficult part for them is traveling through the valley of the shadows of death before their arrival. It is during that lengthy sojourn where they attempt to exercise their attained awareness level at truth revealed, despite all peer pressure, case evaluation, twisted ethics, and propaganda to remain in a clueless state. It requires strength and courage.”
    That’s true for me Marty.
    I’ve needed more courage the past 2 years than I have at any point ever in my life. And I’ve had to traverse much of that journey alone.
    The confront needed to get through this is phenomenal and not everyone makes it. It’s the route to responsibility and cause over all dynamics. It’s the route that leads out of this joint.
    At the end of the road is a state where ethics and personal integrity are second nature and there is no-longer any need to self-invalidate or be afraid or Q&A about the right thing to do anymore.
    For me it is the first real OT level played out in real life (where an OT belongs). It is the re-discovery of the power of self.
    Those who are looking for the ever elusive (or squirrel) OT levels beyond OT VIII take note. If you want to go higher than OT VIII you won’t find it at the end of a carrot someone is dangling for you (and David Miscavige is that LAST person to follow because he wouldn’t have a clue about what I’m talking about here).
    If you truly want to go OT you won’t find it inside your head. You’re going to have to walk the walk.

  65. TheWidowDenk

    Mary McConnell — Thanks for this caring comment! Interestingly enough, I found myself in huge situation for which no one had written a hat … which is why I now communicate.

  66. TheWidowDenk

    Watching Eyes — You are absolutely correct! And below all that MWH phenomena is a lack of communication. I requested an investigation of Dr. Denk’s death from RTC. No response. I requested a B of I on personnel changes within ASI. No response. I wrote a KR about “docs” to RTC. No response. Thanks for the comment!

  67. plainoldthetan

    The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their banks in common. They agree then only on bank principles.
    — HCO PL Keeping Scientology Working

  68. Ralph,

    The people who’ve reviewed LRH’s final folders of his final auditing, I’d say are the people to talk to.

    If Ray Mitoff gets out, I’m hoping Ray would answer freely all details of what he firsthand dealt with in his years as Snr C/S Int, IG Tech, LRH’s final auditor, and any info gleaned from Pat Broeker.

    For instance the LRH Funeral event, Pat Broeker holds up the xerox copy of the worksheet that was over 1/2 a page of just numbers, and it was a “date” from presumably a “date/locate” of something relating to LRH’s own case. That date means WAY WAY back on the track, which means whatever that means, and if you Ralph, know all the recent leaks of all the trees in the forest, to me, I extrapolated that that one worksheet, with that one date, by process of what you do know about ALL areas of processes for the upper levels, then you might be able to discern if that date is part of an existing OT level process, or some unreleased OT level process.

    I wish Ralph, they’d let you tour the Twin Peaks site, and any other site they might be keeping the final LRH tech folders and materials.

    In the “Inside Scientology” book, Mark Fisher tells the story of how DM maneuvered the final LRH pc/pre-OT/OT folders from LRH, and in those folders I believe, based on what LRH wrote to Tech Comps years earlier, in his pc folders is the “research” to be culled, piloted.

    David Mayo also, might know if that worksheet that Pat held up at the LRH Funderal event, if that worksheet was from a time period when David had access to LRH’s research in LRH’s pc folders, or if that worksheet is later.

    Thanks for asking Ralph, if the FBI raids the Scientology headquarters and the CST sites, and if they raid the Int Base folder archives, and if they raid the secret filing cabinets at the Int Base where Mark Fisher says LRH’s final pc folders were kept, behind that false wall off of DM’s office, then the FBI ought to call on you to come make sense of it!


  69. TheWidowDenk

    Thanks for this comment, Tom M!

    Yes, my recounting is very much like an onion being peeled. When I made my statement here in April, I made it succinct for impact. Now, depending upon the blog topic, other stuff comes up and another layer or two gets peeled off. Remember, I’ve been operating quite independently since late 2004. There might be quite a bit to communicate after all that time.

    I don’t know for sure who went through my home trash. It was in a dumpster set out for pickup. No, who ever went through my trash did not break into my house.

    Thank you for having my back! I, too, have yours.

  70. Billy Jack ~~
    Your last paragraph truly resonated with me.
    It is a hard pill to swallow that I contributed to DM’s regime and stats for a long time.
    I want to repeat a few things so that new readers get a grasp on Miscavige’s descent into sadism and madness.

    ++++++When Marc Headley (author of “Blown for Good” ) and John Peeler were young guys, recruited out of the Scientology school Delphi, they were booted off base to sleep on the dirt in sleeping bags.. My 6 months of hell at INT/Gold base is nothing compared to 12 to 17 years of this suffered by Peeler and Headley.. They were both born into it with Scientology parents and went through hell at INT Base.

    +++++Cruelly and intentionally the wrath of DM questioned in heavy interrogations the crew who angered DM for films shots he did not approve of got heavily sec checked by RTC staff. Hookers ? Theft ? Sex with each other? Goofing off ? This would go on for 8 hours straight.
    David Miscavige said they had crimes and til the crimes were discovered, this would continue….

    +++++OVER and OVER and OVER again. Even a Mental Asylum or Prison system is not as bad as that. Mind F@#ck.

    ++++One incident Marc Headley describes is after a marathon of Police Polygraph “sec checking”, 6 of them, the film crew were told to line up outside the MCI (dining hall) and they were to RUN. 4 guys, 2 girls. This was over sleep deprivation, most days with very little sleep, and not a whole lot of food.

    +++++It was 1am. Most property lights turned off, it was very dark. 3 motor cycles pulled up, Gold Security Guards

    +++++”Run ! Run ! RUN !” they ordered. Stay in the headlights and RUN until we stay STOP !

    These 6 Sea Org members were herded like African prey running from helicopters above and sadistically made to RUN. The INT Base covers some 500 acres so there is a lot of space to run.

    +++++Marc Headley and the other 5 ran all over the property herded by the 3 security guards on motor bikes.

    +++++No matter what, no one was allowed to stop for any reason. Finally of the girls collapsed, she was crying and sobbing. The other 5 were made to do push-ups while she was yelled at and made to continue running.

    +++++At 2:30am they were told they would now run to where they would sleep for the night ~~ The South End of the property which was only grass fields, no buildings, no shelters.

    +++++No sleeping bags, no pillows, no bed, sleep on the grass. The MAA Jon Stumpke (long since blown) told them they would be woken at sunrise to continue next assignment.

    +++++at 4: 30am. deliberately and maliciously the sprinklers went off. Not on other parts of the property, but only where these 6 lay on the grass. Only South Side sprinklers went off. Clothes were soaking wet. No change of clothes.m No food, little sleep, herded like animals and made to run pursued by INT “Security Guards” like animals.

    Why ?

    Miscavige did not like their filming produced that day.

    There are penalties for displeasing Miscavige……
    A 501C3 tax free entity permitted to commit atrocities ~~ hey 1st amendment “religious rights.”

    Religion indeed

  71. To command is to serve. Even Hubbard knew that. The truth is power is something others grant you. A man standing all alone on the street corner has no power because there is nobody flowing it to him. There is a little bit of power in having some money that is very very fragile. Power to hire someone to cut your lawn as long as the paper is considered valuable. But power over other people’s lives comes when people trust you. It is gifted from others to you. And it is gifted when you are serving them in a valuable way. The only power a person has in social intercourse in reality is the power to be of value to others. That is why, to command is to serve. Whatever power DM slid under him was Hubbard’s power and Hubbard’s value. And he has done nothing but devalue it all.
    The museum on Hollywood Boulevard was a covert way to put Hubbard in to “the past”.

  72. TheWidowDenk

    Sam speaks sooth!!

  73. Dear Widow Denk,

    You have nailed a very important point.
    There is no one to report outnesses to.
    There are no checks and balances.
    A knowledge report to RTC is essentially writing to “office of COB” ~~ David Miscavige ~~
    That results in more order Miscavige retaliation for correctly and honestly reporting.
    You did try. You really did, on all the correct lines.
    You were unacknowledged. But you are duplicated and acknowledged here.


  74. Great post!

  75. +100 Ingrid!

  76. Sinar, These people are scary. The evil intentions just gushing. Total DED in 3D! “Marty really DEserveD it!” Manifesting DED, DED-DEDEX, DEDEX all over the airport garages and roads of Igleside Bay without any shame whatsoever!

  77. Cowboy Poet

    And as long as the lease is in full force and effect, they feel they have a claim on your free spirit.
    They only encumber it as long as you let them.

  78. Marty,

    As a caveat.

    We should avoid getting into cookie cutter case handling like they do at….you know where.

    Not all OT VIIIs who come off the line over there are PTS to Miscavige or in his valence.

    Some probably have their own “whys” for going along with the pervasive out ethics situation over there which is covered in the 3 May PL.

    Others are so untrained and ignorant of the subject since unfortunately most Pre OTs are untrained these days that they don’t know anything is wrong.

    Also a few of them may be SP themselves.

    Not to mention the possibility that some may be suffering from out grade phenomenon with the new Quickie Grade regimen particularly Grade IV and in the case of your earlier posting Grade 0 for sure.

    Unhandled resistiveness to auditing as covered in the 40X and auditing and case errors listed in the C/S 53.

    In many cases.

    Probably the original OT IV RD which includes a valence shifter wouldn’t hurt.

    Just saying that we have to avoid labeling everyone “PTS” like they are doing and have everybody doing the PTS/SP course.

    Since there are also false PTS conditions as well such as a complete lack of training in general.

    BTW all the PTS materials are covered on the Briefing Course and should be part of Levels training as well.

  79. All because Marty is conducting a noisy investigation on someone totally bereft of reason!

  80. And the big fat lie on the line is that David Miscavige has any power.
    He doesn’t. He is a vampire personality who survives soley on sucking the life-force from others.
    When all of the OTs are gone he will be but an empty useless shell.

  81. J.Swift.
    Revocable certs. Your certs are temporary ~~ until you read the Internet~~

  82. The outpoint is these people think they are OT’s and they are not.

    “The line it is drawn
    The curse it is cast
    The slow one now
    Will later be fast
    As the present now
    Will later be past
    The order is
    Rapidly fadin’.
    And the first one now
    Will later be last
    For the times they are a-changin’…..”

  83. Keep doing whatever works and brings about change and improvement.

  84. Whatever keeps the tone arm moving 😉

  85. So sad about all of this.

    I have a question for Marty. Is there some theological reason why Scientology courses costs so much? I mean, did Hubbard try to justify this?

    Or do people like Miscavige cultivate the church’s cost barriers and exclusivity because these aspects are what most appeal to its wealthiest donors?

    I guess what I’m asking is the tens of thousands of dollars people spend to go clear: is this Miscavige or is it Scientology?

    Given the costs a rich Scientologist seems like a narcissistic monster. A poor one seems like a self-loathing fool. Fuck these people.

  86. Amen.

  87. Happy New Life Anniversary Tory!

  88. God (whoever she is) damn David Miscavige, the RTC robots, and those INT security guards.

  89. And in the obituary – we shall always remember David Miscavige – he was a great showman after all:

  90. Ralph Hilton

    Hi Chuck,
    There was a time when LRH dated such very large dates – after OT3 he said that such huge dates were just part of implants and that the actual dates were far more recent.
    My trust of Pat Broeker was and is very low. The only time I got to know him a bit was at Daytona when he was the dishwasher. I don’t think I would have bought a used car from him.
    My guess is that he pulled an LRH worksheet from many years earlier and xeroxed it to impress.
    My current viewpoint about the correct tech is quite similar to what Marty has said – I don’t quite agree that it is ALL out and am interested in any details available to clarify some points.
    LRH was a genius beyond any I have encountered. The idea that he would leave reams of unissued tech of value in vaults just doesn’t match with my perception of him.
    In a safe environment I think that people can achieve the higher states LRH intended. I think that it can be done with the existing available material. It is evident that some material LRH considered of value was withheld by DM e.g. Super Power. There could well be data about upper OT levels that DM has also withheld.
    Having all the available data could well speed up our work a bit but I do feel that the necessary tech to achieve OT is out in the field and available.

  91. I have a really bad habit of telling the truth.
    I consider it an ‘OT disability’! LOL
    Hasn’t gotten me into trouble so far… well nothing I didn’t manage to get myself out of… eventually 😀
    You’d be amazed the capacity other beings have for handling the truth. Don’t underestimate them.
    I can still lie if I want to. I just don’t particularly enjoy it.

  92. So true.
    The lies that hold it in place are fragile at best against real Scientology.
    Thanks for being an auditor Ingrid 😀

  93. TheWidowDenk duplicates sooth!

  94. Karen, this is a vital point.

    The firewalls have long since been breached. There is no Ethics or Justice system in the Church of miscavige.

    Ethics Tech Admin.

    The Chancellor is the Sith Lord.

  95. Ralph Hilton

    I don’t see the LRH quote being in conflict with your statements, Tortilla.
    An OT can lie all he wants to and the inability to tell a lie will destroy him.
    I think LRH was talking about unexamined lies in that context.
    Marty can be a bit abrupt sometimes. I guess if a bunch of assholes were hanging outside my house with evil intentions I would be too.

  96. Ralph Hilton

    “Invent a lie” might well Clear a person if run long enough but there are faster ways so I won’t put it to the test.

  97. JSwift, this is so right on! It’s their complete invalidation of any actual achievement.

  98. “If you truly want to go OT you won’t find it inside your head. You’re going to have to walk the walk.”

    Sam, you have all my respect for what you’ve been through and come through.


  99. Karen,
    What you describe is so disturbing. Incremental agreement that leads to massive suppresson is the name of the game, as Billy Jack and you and others have highlighted.

    Stories like these would be hard to believe, but I’ve known or met some of the people who have described such incidents. I knew them once to have been utterly DEVOTED Church members. It must have taken a lot to make them turn away and report such viciousness. I cannot discount these stories of inhumanity and cruelty. Plus, it’s hard not to imagine what kind of horror might be visited upon the disfavored if “power” and secrecy were more completely owned.

    This is an old historical thread – monumental MEST and power projects at the cost of the monumental grief and suffering of individual human beings who benefit naught. Mob mentality cheers and goes along with the gleaming triumphs, the pride and glory. But then, it’s your turn to burn for the emperor’s pleasure.


  100. Ralph Hilton

    “Whatever power DM slid under him was Hubbard’s power and Hubbard’s value.”
    That is a keypoint of DM’s control. He usurps LRH’s comm lines and uses them for control. It is the way many old Churches survived. They said that people were mere mortals unable to communicate with God and that only the priests could do that.
    The truth is that LRH made the tech available and that DM is attempting to curtail that availability to his own ends.
    Petty SPs do not learn from experience as they are stuck in an endless relay of the same portion of track that they are stuck in.
    Free thetans eventually figure out what the SP is doing and he falls. And even then he does not see.
    There is a part of the technology that DM hides most ruthlessly and that is the power of real communication. Any OT can communicate freely with an SP without becoming PTS as long as they understand the PTS/SP data.
    A true leader of the Church would have opened up the comm lines and said talk to the critics! Communication is the Universal Solvent. It is the means by which Scientologists can go into ARC with society.
    DM shut that down to maintain control.

  101. +1
    Dear Sam,
    I admire you very much.

  102. Who is “we” in “we get it”? Funny, it seems to me you are making yourself right and Marty wrong. Your post is just a ser fac on Marty. How is that interest in discussing an L.R.H. quote? If you are not interested in hearing something for the millionth time (I only heard it once under the blog title) why are you here and what are you really curious about? Your post was just entheta.

  103. Ralph Hilton

    Hi Heather,
    Paying attention to one’s feelings and taking them as a sign is a bit too psychological for me.
    Addressing one’s buttons is part of auditing in Scientology.
    Most here were not born yesterday.

  104. Ralph Hilton

    Ok. Seems right. My attention was still a bit on another post 🙂
    There is another control tech – look at the forest and not the things that are happening behind the trees!
    Either imbalance can be used to control.

  105. Good analogy J Swift,

    I suppose that the fine print of the Lease also includes the connections to business associates, friends and family. Those subscribing to similar leases.

  106. TO,
    Particularly the first link on YT posted. One of the nastiest persons one would want to talk to, wishing you the worst possible concept he can envision, just pure evil.

    Reposting the first link here as it didn’t seem to post correctly:

  107. The simple handling of Marty and Mosey of handing out the Creed perhaps snapped some of these guys out of their OOV – Allender, Bryan and Parr seemed to have exteriorized from IOB after that infusion of LRH!

  108. +200. well said Ingrid. Thanks for being their to audit.

  109. +me too.
    Many guys will be key’d out and VGIs in far less auditing than one would think.

  110. Well said Sam.

  111. You are one amazing lady! If there is a God, God Bless You!!!!!!!!!!! Infinite and eternal love is what you deserve, with your honesty and integrity! I was NEVER in the Sea Org. I am so much of a rebel that it would have been oil and water and would never mix. I do not and cannot acquiesce to injustices and would sooner die in a fight than to compromise. I truly understand the concept of duty and loyalty but there is a line that I will never cross. Never. I was a simple nobody public person. A mere non-entity by the standards of several ignoramuses. There are some Sea Org members whom I absolutely detest and only hope that proper exchange occurs at some point in time with those haughty, supercilious, know-best assholes.

    I am new to this blog and am unaware of Marty’s recommendations. Nevertheless, I very much admire and respect his work, his perseverance and his integrity. I can say the same for others on this blog, such as yourself, Les Warren and several others. Mike Rinder is an amazing person and deserves the very best in life. I feel his potential is far beyond what he has attained at this point in time. The same is true for many others.

    Karen, I do not know you but I love what you have written and that you have the courage to write it.

    TO MARTY: PLEASE express your recommendations again. Number of times is certainly appreciated and is also well worth your while. Stay strong, Marty. Know you have friends, sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  112. Ralph Hilton

    It was mostly done quite a few years ago. Many have gone unacknowleged for their work in making the tech available across the internet.
    Ken Ogger, who posted as “the Pilot” operated the “Freezone Bible Association” and posted a lot of the tech on usenet using multiple pgp encrypted remailers with a degree of security that was way beyond the ability of even the CIA to trace. All CofS attempts to find him failed until his wife betrayed him.
    The true identity of Scamizdat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scamizdat) was not revealed until after his death.
    Many of Bill Robertson’s followers contributed to the OCRing etc. of the tech that is now available and should be acknowledged at least for that.
    The tech being freely available in all the disks, packs etc that now circulate freely is the long work of many over quite a few years.
    Marty is doing great work but the work of getting that tech out on the net was not his and I don’t think he has ever claimed that it was.

  113. Karen, I knew Heber. What a wonderful man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  114. George White

    Yes, I think DM could have used a little ARC. He fixated on minor points and did not have a panoramic view of the level.
    Much loving-kindness,
    George M. White

  115. George White

    I might also add the concept of continuity. I read and listened to hundreds of LRH tapes and documents from 1973-1996. You go in and read something which is so “out of sync”; the outpoints just stick out.
    DM tried to be a great authority on Religious Technology and he was
    in no way qualified for the task.
    Much loving-kindness,

  116. Auditing is a self-correcting discipline – and that is truly a wonderful thing. If a session goes wrong, you fix it with auditing – the session that went wrong is just another bit of charge to look at.

    The Bridge done standardly can unwind the billions of years on the track in 5 or 10 years or so with relative ease. So it doesn’t surprise me at all that Independent Auditors can undo DM’s shenanigans easily.

    Something I’d like to see a lot more of is success stories from PCs – the real genuine kind of success stories we had years ago, where the pc freely originated them and they came from the heart. Auditing is a bit out of my reach for the moment (not my fault – I live on a continent where there are no Independent Auditors yet!) but I can still share other people’s wins 🙂

  117. Wonderful post. Extrapolated from it is much data as to explain the many motives and actions of the OT wanabes and mortals alike. The ARC & KRC triangle are indeed interlocked and shine a bright light out of the messes if one cares enough to know them.

  118. Sam,

    About a year ago, I had a cognition after reading one of Marty’s posts. Something like “After OT VII, you get to figure the rest out yourself.”

    Which makes complete sense, the subject is “knowing how to know” so at some stage people will have to take the tools that are there and use them to look and know for themselves.


  119. Tony Dephillips

    Hi ___Sherb,
    I would say that it is really just up to the individual whether he is OT or not. I won’t let anyone decide for me what or who I am.

  120. Agreed Alan
    It’s my reality that LRH would not have left without completing the job. If it wasn’t done he would have returned to finish it.
    The only reason anyone thinks he didn’t (including maybe even LRH) is because Miscavige is sitting right on the tech lines in the church making sure that no-one makes it all the way out.
    But as Independent Scientologists now free of the suppression we are making it. All of us.
    We have all the tools. We just need to pull on our bootstraps and finish up the job.
    It’s our hat now. LRH has done enough; he’s earned his loafing time 🙂

    No-one has to agree with me. It’s just how I see it.

  121. Brand new anonymous poster pointing the finger at LRH? Snide comments aimed at absolving Miscavige for some of the blame and placing it onto the subject of Scientology itself? All sandwiched neatly between perfectly polite and ‘reasonable’ questions?
    If I accuse you of being a troll are you going to protest loudly and say that I’m paranoid and you are entirely innocent? And that I should grant you beingness by allowing you to freely express your opinion?
    Express away… Troll!
    But I for one am not going to get tripped up trusting you in anyway.

  122. “POW! SPLAT! BOOF!”
    Holy legal argument Batman, I’ve been hit with legal mumbo jumbo. Does that mean I must return my cape?”
    “Yes, Robin. The Joker has pulled a swifty. Gothams lawyers have uncovered the devil in the fine print – he was serious the whole time!”

  123. Angela I can answer your question.

    The price of “service” increased dramatically after the coup took over.

    According to the Policy Letter Policy and Dissemination Programs the price for training and auditing was supposed to be based on the average lower middle class income for that area.

    That is what the average person could afford.

    Another thing was that back then (before the coup or BC) coauditing (meaning training on the levels and auditing cooperatively) was encouraged meaning you got all your auditing basically for the cost of all your training which was the reason why Dianetics was once called the “poor man’s psychotherapy”.

    Well it certainly isn’t that now!

    One of the main reasons is that the Organization concentrates on nothing but elitist money grubbing scum who are basically lunatics like Miscavige who have no concept of helping anyone but themselves.

    “(N)arcissistic monster(s)” or assholes would be a good descriptive term for them 🙂

    And Tom Cruise and David Miscavige would be prime examples.

  124. JM
    Thank you.
    I don’t regret any of it though.
    I needed a good hard slap to wake me up.
    What I went through is only equal to the responsibility I had failed to take in the first place.
    Deepest respect to you to too ship-mate.

  125. Michael Fairman

    RJ, a caveat on your caveat.
    It seems to me if any OT VII is buying Miscavige’s bull shit, he or she is PTS. If they have “looked” at other data and labeled it all lies, they are all PTS. There are many OT VIII’s who are highly trained and continue to drink the cool-aide – they are PTS. Please tell me what “why” could exist for anyone to go along with “the pervasive out-ethics situation over there” that wouldn’t make them PTS. They’re labeling us all PTS because the data they have on us is pulled from their own ass holes. We label them PTS because we observe their behavior or lack thereof. You’re absolutely correct in that they CAN be helped by why excuse what they have become.
    Respectfully, Michael

  126. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Michael. I feel duplicated and understood.

  127. “pay close attention to your feelings. If you feel angry in response to any tactic they employ, then it’s a sign that they’re pressing a button that you need to address. We all have buttons and addressing them is part of our personal growth” = Psycho Babble. I dare say that you might possibly have a misunderstanding of what a button is Heather. In Scientology it has a specific meaning. Outside Scientology it has been altered and used incorrectly.

  128. I agree…..I can see it now….DM sitting in a dark room lit by a dim light. He stares at the OT VIII pack, and with a marker, changes it to “OTVIII – Truth Concealed”.

    He thinks to himself, “Them is all agin me”.

  129. Off the fence.

    It is a shame that COS has pretty much barred anyone who isn’t a millionaire from the bridge. It’s not just that PC’s can’t afford it, the really sad thing is that it makes it really nonviable for those who wish to audit for a career. I was talking to the PES at my local org a few years back. He was telling me they were doing an “inquiry” into why over 95 % of all of those who have done and completed auditor courses aren’t auditing. I told him; it’s too overpriced! He just acked me and went on his way.
    How many of us would be auditing if we could get $25.00 an hour? Make a couple of hundred bucks a day for helping people? I’d be doing it. make it $35.00. $10.00 of every hour of every auditor goes to the C/S.
    If costs had been reasonable all these years, (reasonable in a good sense) half this country would be clear. Not to mention the stimulated economy.

  130. The RTC has a special secret office personally overseen by David Miscavige. It is called the “Internet Guardians Network Office Against Research, News, Clarity, and Enlightenment” or IGNORANCE.

    IGNORANCE polices Clear, OT, and all other CoS Lease Certifications and IAS statuses.

    In the event that a Scientologist is caught looking at suppressive facts or the ever-increasing amount of deadly blogs and websites online, IGNORANCE will not only cancel their certs, but it will act to destroy their good name, life, family, and employment via Fair Game and Disconnection. If this requires OSA to stalk and harass people, then IGNORANCE will order it per COB.

    The Squirrel Busters are the embodiment of Cult IGNORANCE and man the ramparts, battlements, and paddleboats of RTC with cameras atop their pointy heads.

    Warning: The SQB Cult IGNORANCE is filming a pseudo-documentary that is staggering in its total and complete scope of failure.

    Do not be fooled: Scientology IGNORANCE is watching and waiting, its arsenal loaded with Paranoia, Footbullets, and Failure as it heads straight down and vertical into Hell.

    You have been warned: Cult IGNORANCE is after you!


  131. So true Ralph. A huge debt to them too, as without that work, DM would have completed his plan to monopolize these truths. Too bad Dave. Hip hooray for those beings who saw the remedy was spread far and wide and not hoarded.

    P.S. Ralph, I got that question answered on the GPM research line I was asking you about. Man, did I get it answered!!

  132. I’m not excusing what they’ve become by any means.

    In fact the exact opposite.

    An OT operates at *cause*.

    Someone who is PTS operates at effect.

    Just because they call us “PTS” doesn’t make such a wrong indication correct.

    Just because someone did all the Levels of training there are doesn’t mean he is trained to that level.

    Man I’ve seen IV or Vs who could audit circles around some VIIIs.

    Same with “OTs”.

    Just because someone has a cert saying he or she is OT VIII doesn’t mean they are.

    That’s what the phenomenon known as “bypassed case” is.

    As I wrote there is also a condition known as “false PTS” as well.

    Personally I never considered myself PTS to Miscavige.

    Just as I never considered myself PTS to Hitler or Stalin.

    To say that *everyone* who is still involved in the Church is as far as I’m concerned a wrong indication for many.

    It’s just like them saying that everybody in the Field must be PTS and thus everybody in the Field should therefore do the PTS Course.

    Now supposedly everybody has “out basics” and never understood the basic books.

    All to say to that is:


    Thus my caution still stands.

    My suggestion is that we don’t go the same route to hell that the Orgs have gone down and get into case eval based on one exclusive why like “the blind are leading the blind”.

    As far as I’m concerned saying everyone is PTS to Miscavige is the same thing.

  133. You guys are AWESOME!!!!!!!!

  134. Michael Fairman

    The truth is not difficult to duplicate

  135. No offense, but you are gorgeous!

  136. Ya know guys, I really love and admire Sam. She’s the best and she’s one tough being. During the 4th party Sam decided to go swimming in the lake where a 14-foot alligator was spotted the day before. I was a little up tight about all this because of the danger involved. So I snuck down to the water and I warned the gators that Sam is going to be in the water. They cleared out of there fast.

    I always thought it would be sweet revenge to capture Bin Laden and then turn him loose in the streets of NYC and let NYC be his judge, Jury and Fate. With that same spirit in mind I hereby nominate Sam as the Chairman of DMs Comm Ev. Karen is the convening authority. Who wants to be secretary?

    ML Tom

  137. Tort,
    Here’s a ‘retort’. Scientology is a subject, and extensive subject. Your question, ‘how does this square’ (the Class VIII tape quote and OT) with the Social Personality being unwilling to pass on entheta, has a ring of ‘gotcha’ in it rather than a sincere question.

    If it is sincere, then my advice is to study the subject, get up the Bridge, study the full research line and any and all questions, with your own personal action to extrapolate the data, apply it, see it yourself, will indeed be resolved.

    For example, ‘TIME’ is basically a lie. Your here, I’m here, we’re both full of shit so to speak since we’re a couple of big fat liars now aren’t we. Maybe the difference is I know I’m lying to be here.

  138. Marty,
    Superb Opening Piece. Ahhhhhh….ain’t it the truth.

  139. I’ve seen this. You are right. Using the cloak of “tech” and “Scientology” and “OT” to smash in other people’s anchor points and spin them in.
    They don’t get away with it. Look at the condition he is in. Hate and punishing bodies on the tone scale.

  140. Yvonne Schick


  141. Very witty! Too funny? “Truth Concealed” we have to keep that one for the library!

  142. I think she is just trying to take care Marty. Maybe she doesn’t want him
    sucked into road drama in Ingleside. Sounds like motherly or sisterly love to me. Women are caretakers.

  143. Yes but if you read SOS.

    Ron discusses different levels of truth.

    Then of course there is Axiom 38 and the Article entitled ‘Personal Integrity’.

    Back to Axioms.

    Truth would cause as-isness.

    Yet there’s Dave still persisting.

    Personally I’d love to see the guy just vanish especially while giving one of the endlessly tiring turgid speeches of his.

    I mean that would be the next thing to him being struck by a lightning bolt from out of the blue.

    But we can’t always get what we wish for.

    However POT made a very good point from KSW earlier:

    “The common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their banks in common. They agree then only on bank principles.”

    Heaven forbid that we fall into the same trap ourselves.

    Yes it’s true that in order to survive in the organization these days you have to a least *pretend* to go along with the suppressive lil’ lunatic but this doesn’t necessarily mean that one is PTS.

    Just like I don’t consider myself PTS to the State Legislature because I have to wear a motorcycle helmet or I can’t smoke in my favorite watering hole these days here in California.

    I know I have the power of choice to move to Texas or something but I’d rather not.

    Or worse!

    Let’s say that I didn’t know that there was another state in the union I could move to?

    To many people who are still there.

    They don’t know that there is an alternative to the so called Church of Scientology.

    Aside from that there are those who are still in that do not agree with what is going on and who are trying to reform the system from within.

    I was in that position myself for many years.

    And to those people I wish:

    GOOD LUCK!!!

    That said.

    I wouldn’t consider these people PTS.

    So that’s my viewpoint on the scene.

  144. Scott Campbell

    I second your “right on!” Carol.

    Right on Tara!

    “No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.” — John Donne

  145. I agree Off the Fence,

  146. While I agree with your basic assessment, I differ on the “has any power” statement. The mechanics of the Suppression that DM has implemented (recall that SP’s can ONLY restimulate) is illustrated in a scale LRH outlined in Scn 8-80:

    “To make theta hold a facsimile of emotion, or effort or even Reason, the facsimile itself must contain an aesthetic wave. The last alone can hold the recordings of pain, grief, exhaustion, abberration, force in upon theta.”

    This is why the MO of endless events. This is why the pagentry, autotune, overwhelming videos, etc. Scientology is intended to make one immune to comopulsive aesthetics, but that part of it has been de-emphasized and altered beyond belief. But just spotting the mechanics of it (enforced overt have on Aesthtics, enforced can’t have on Reason) may help others “spot the lies” and regain the power and ability of their own Truth.
    The Ultimate Truth is a Static, of course. And that is why “what is true for you is true for you.” Only someone devoid of any belief in the basic goodness of man would want to deny that to others.

  147. This is a powerful post. I like oracle’s comments.

    To command is to serve. LRH
    for DM it is the reverse: to command is to be served.

    mayhbe DM is right that power also is to have people listen to you. But what if you have to threaten them to make them listen? L. Ron Hubbard never threatened people to make them listen, he did not have to.

  148. So true! Well said!

  149. Barney Rubble


    Tried to skype you, what is your new add?

  150. Scott Campbell


    Look at the tone levels between -0.01 and -1.5 to see what these guys are acting at. At -0.2 (Shame) is where the valence shift occurs.


  151. Scott Campbell

    Hey Tom,

    My wife Karry grew up in an Scn family. I distinctly remember her coming and sitting on my lap crying after seeing yet again a new Grade Chart issued in that she had gotten a copy of in 1986. (she collected grade charts)

    She told me at the time that she thought something was wrong and that the people that she knew who had done the “old bridge” were really powerful and exciting people and that she couldn’t understand why it was changing so much.

    As a greenhorn, I didn’t know how to answer her concerns.

    What’s your take on this, buddy?


  152. Tony Dephillips

    You’re cool.

  153. Yes, there is a “theological” reason. David Miscavige worships money and is in the full time business of selling indulgences like the old popes and bishops used to do.

  154. Scott Campbell


    Exactly. It is also the means by which a being “punishes” himself between lives and in his next reincarnation.

    To me that is the primary reason to get off the lies and the charge and get to the truth in this life. And to use that truth to help others in order to not be subject to and subsequently subject others to that punishment-control mechanism anymore.

  155. You said it better than I did. 🙂

  156. Really, look at who is stuck on the f%&*^$g time track!

  157. Scott Campbell


    Upon reading your post I looked up this video and posted it here in response to your comment to Tortilla.

    Check out the fishing at 1:04 and tell me I’m a liar.

  158. Interesting point Karen; “A knowledge report to RTC is essentially writing to “office of COB” ~~ David Miscavige ~~”
    Or in my own words…into a black hole. LOL!
    I remember the days when I wrote any KR’s to RTC (especially about out-tech) I would always get an acknowledgement. Then suddenly, no ack’s. They still have a site you can go to and write KR’s (https://www.rtc.org/reports/form/index.html?locale=en_US) but it’s a total waste of time. I have sent them data on some mind boggling GROSS out-tech at Flag and NOTHING was ever done. One KR I wrote was about a selectee of mine who went in for an int handling and ended up being put on a program written by the D of P! WITHOUT ever going to the C/S! What the hell is a D of P doing C/Sing from his post? Long story short, when my selectee told me this, I told her to go back to Flag and tell the D of P to shove it up his ass and demand that she get the auditing she came in for in the first place. She then got her int handling. But the KR I wrote on the whole situation never got an ack or a handling done on the squirrely D of P. Who knows how many other PC’s he was giving programs to do without a C/S. Absolutely gross.

  159. Side note on POB: I remember when he announced “no more arbitraries” at Flag. Well folks,there has been nothing BUT arbitraries since that announcement! The scary part is the number of sheeple who buy all the arbitraries and think it’s ok. All I can say to Scientologists still in the Church (staff and public) is please WAKE THE FUCK UP! Start by using LRH’s policy, Look Don’t Listen – HCOPL 16 March 1972. And here is a quote from Albert Einstein “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.”

  160. One of the biggest wins I had in auditing was running a process on the grades of lying and to keep on lying-I went very exterior.

  161. Sam I agree with you-It’s our turn.

  162. it’s time to grow up.

  163. That’s right Off the fence. The cost of auditing and training nowadays totally violates LRH’s policy.



    By average pay is meant the average upper lower class or lower middle class pay scale. (Example guesses: U.K. about £50. U.S. about $500. Australia about $75. South Africa about £80.)

    (from HCO PL 23 Sept 64 “Policies: Dissemination and Programs”)



    But processing of a special nature at higher levels can be charged at higher rates.” LRH
    (from HCO PL 23 Sept 64 “Policies: Dissemination and Programs”)

    PS: I remember Flag doing a survey on its public back around 1987 and found that 97% were IN DEBT for their bridges. Only 3% ever paid cash. Add to that all the IAS donations the public is forced into (adding more debt) and ending up either bankrupt or so far in debt they might not come out of in their lifetimes. It’s totally insane.

  164. Michel-Thank you for being unresaonable about PTSness-We are in this mess because of being reasonable.

  165. Beautiful!

  166. Short answer: No.

    There was an ED from 1976 that put in place a price raise of 5% per month, because courses and auditing at that time were pretty low. There was, sadly, no end date stated. The training levels were $1250 for all five (Class 0-4), and the clearing course was $800, and the BC was something like $1500. Not a lot of money, even in 1970s money. But, this 5% a month thing went on long after the life of the ED – into the mid-eighties. It was crazy.

    But, the real crazy thing was the IAS, and that is all Mr. David Miscavige. This was and is money for nothing, and is “required.”

    Now we add the “ideal Orgs” and the scam is full.

  167. Bravo – well said.

  168. Great post, Marty. I have not studied OT V though VIII, but Ron’s definition of OT make absolute sense. You can see how the various processes and technologies align across this one, simple definition. Awesome reference.

  169. You view O.O. Is my view also I add, Its just not real and is a lie and its acting under some illusion of their own ilogic .

  170. Hi Tony,
    Indeed, even per the SOPs of the 50s, the only true text of exterioration is if the PC says they are.
    The only restrictions as I see it is that the effects of out gradient are very real and some KRC needs to be applied before progressing to the next level, the Bridge is walked from where you have a reality on it, hence trust in a C/S is critical (or at the very least the hat of of C/S must be worn) – the non reach for the nest level is just a indicator something needs correction. Qual is at the same height on the Org board as HCO for reason.
    It all can be known – that’s the wonder of LRH, he simply TR3’d us that it can be known, make it yours… and if you do that, you know when you’re OT.

  171. Hi Off the fence,
    The Bridge is not available within the CofS, please don’t make the mistake that money will buy it for you there, no matter how much you have.
    The ticket out of the masses and entrapment of what this universe is composed is bought by understanding and accomplishment of the tech you already have available.
    Granted it is a puzzle but all the tools are there to undue that puzzle. You walked into this universe from a high tone level with lots of action and motion – well, that’s how you walk out of it too. Don’t buy false tickets…

  172. scilonschools

    Now Sam as an ‘outsider’ that post appears pure OTIX to ME!!

  173. scilonschools

    “Cut Bait or Fish”

    Lovely lady called Pauline, from Galveston Bay Area Tx, used to use this expression, meaning are you going to mess around stuck in eternal preparation, or are you going to get on with the Real business in hand?
    It appears to me that all one needs to know/deal with the situations of Life Love & Politics are covered in Standard Tech, it is interpreting and applying them in full that causes the issues.
    Like an eternal Medical student who wants to go on and on always looking to get another qualification but never go into practice.
    I think this misguided approach lurks strongly in the CoM, always hoping there is another mysterious level that will answer all, enslaving some to disregard all learnt to pursue the ‘willow the wisp’
    The Valley of the Shadow of Death may be like a REAL time ‘Wall of Fire’, the next step, played out in Real time with the ‘Safety’ off!

    Yes DM’s Zombies are sat out in the Texas Sun (and elsewhere) cutting their bait into smaller and smaller pieces (until it will be of no use for fishing at all!) because they are told to and can see no further. They are in a squirrel cage.
    A large portion of the ‘Indies’ appear to be using their bait, and are OUT THERE FISHING! (OTIX?)

  174. Huh?

  175. I recommend the Phil Spickler Video’s.

  176. Jethro Bodine

    Every “OT 8” turned out by the Radical Church of Scientology has been someone who is batshit crazy and/or lacks any sort of real OT abilities. I’m curious to see what Marty and the Independents are going to produce. It can’t be any worse than what Miscavige has produced.

  177. It seems Heather has pushed a button 😉

  178. Talking about the same thing but not seeing it.

  179. Scientologists have buttons all over the place. To think the outside world is oblivious of buttons to push is absurd thinking.

  180. If you pick apart the PTS tech — I believe you’ll find the following:

    A human being decided because it was easier, less painful and more acceptable to chose the side of “might” rather than the side of “right”

    And thus this now PTS person, loses himself and becomes the “other”

    Since he is no longer himself but now the “other” (out of valence and IN the valence of the SP) – the ability to do what is INHERENTLY a human quality – to make ethical choices, is lost. (to make a choice, you have to BE yourself — if you aren’t yourself, then you just do what your “other” says)

    This very human trait — available ONLY to humans (ie. not animals, no matter how precious they are) is to make ethical choices. This isn’t a one time choice but daily.

    It’s difficult at times because the path isn’t always illuminated like signs over the freeway. It requires self-reflection, space, tremendous honesty and contemplation.

    Too many prefer to allow the materialistic world, which would include the culture of dm, to pull them down the river of existence. Going with the flow of rushing water which sadly but inevitably dumps the person into the muddy headwaters.

    As Marty has stated above — walking through the valley of the shadow of death requires a great deal of courage and willingness IF NECESSARY to stand completely ALONE.

    The good news is — once this difficult but life saving choice is made — and you stand separated FROM “the other” — you look around and see and WOW … instead of ALONE, you are standing with a multitude of strong, heartened beings who are proud of their journeys and welcome you for having made yours.


  181. LATEST NEWS!!!!!!
    i was in SPLIT (city in Croatia-where “church” is trying make first centre),
    and there is a tent, with big DIANETICS and free stress test,but they don’t allow cell phones inside-cause they “may” disturb e-meters…(i think cause of cameras…) ,after few minutes i start talking with a gay from Hungary (they are staff here ,they share knowledge),and he ask me some things and i say i read Dianetics already,he asks how did i find that book,and i say i have very good friend that is Scientologyst and he is from US….
    gay ask (they speak Croatian) O ,really ,what is his name…. and sorry Marty, i say Marty Rathbun,and we speak minute or two,then he say “just a second….”, he goes to other gay-they whisper something,use cell phone,then he comes back and says “Do you KNOW that HE is NO LONGER Scientologist!!??!!”
    i say ” i am not sure that u have right information – HE IS Scientologist!”
    he says “NO ,NO he is no longer Scientologyst”, and i say “no u have wrong information – HE is Scientologyst but he and others are no longer in Church….
    then he give me a ten second “look”,and ask me to take my cell phone and leave tent…
    so funny…….

  182. Ralph Hilton

    When I had my first 25 hours in 1972 the CofS price was GBP 5 / hour.

  183. I noticed when I was Flag, the steps many of the highest OT level completions at the time, had taken AWAY from being OT and just simply “making it know they were in the church”. Kathy and Matthew Feshbach for example, when I was at Flag and was the only person there in the situation I was in at the moment and needed their help temporarily financially to pay them back in a few month for a service, they had a “family and then public social debate” whether this was the right thing to do. Well, if I was there, and being recommended and available then WHO do they think was meant? It was very diheartening to see two people I thought I thought well of, snub their noses (and there is no question they would have been paid back before I went home). They just didn’t want to. Well go to hell the two of them and their practical joking SO buddies. But, if they had turned to me for help, and the church did at the time, not them, they would have gotten it, so it is OK to tell a genuine fellow church member to go get lost. The church is everything anyone never imagined it was and more, because it is composed of liars and people that really do no good for others.

  184. LOL!!! Good troll.

  185. This is an interesting thread.
    I know 2 OT8s and I agree they are pretty well as you call it ‘bat shit crazy’. They both have this wierd sort of ‘self confidence’ and aloofness that is quite unnerving to be around especially when trying to discuss anything Scientology. I reckon their aloofness is simply justification for having spent so much $ and time they have to continually justify to themselves they are ‘winning’. It must be pretty lonely for ’em when it’s all said and done, I don’t comm to anymore & nor do many I know who also know them.
    As far as expecting to be curious about an OT8 from other sources – I’m pretty sure one wouldn’t permit an ‘examination’ nor shout from the roof tops that they are one. Per the History of Man, the people of earth are a ‘they.’ It would make good sense to tread carefully. Curiosity is best served by self examination upon achieveing that state yourself. Everyone had a home universe before this one. I’m pretty sure mine would make absolutely no sense to you; that doesn’t mean it doesn’t relate to me as an OT, quite the opposite, I was quite OT when I made it.
    That’s what makes going OT so fascinating, you run into all that stuff you got up to way back – some of it could be very easily be ‘bat shit crazy’ too and lots of fun.

  186. + 1 😀

  187. Money paid so Miscavige feels admired.

  188. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychobabble

    “Psychobabble (a portmanteau of “psychology” or “psychoanalysis” and “babble”) is a form of prose using jargon, buzzwords and highly esoteric language to give an impression of plausibility through mystification, misdirection, and obfuscation. The term implies that the speaker of psychobabble lacks the experience and understanding necessary for proper use of a given psychological term.”

    button(s): items, words, phrases, subjects or areas that are easily restimulatable in an individual by the words or actions of other people, and which cause him discomfort, embarrassment or upset, or make him laugh uncontrollably. See also restimulation.

  189. Marty what is your beef with dr Ruth ? Well I don’t care for her advice either by the way. Her live is intresing though.
    “Westheimer was born Karola Ruth Siegel in Wiesenfeld (Karlstadt), Germany, the only child of Orthodox Jews, Julius Siegel and Irma Siegel née Hanauer. In January 1939 she was sent to Switzerland by her mother and grandmother after her father was taken by the Nazis.[2][3][4] There she came of age in an orphanage, and stopped receiving her parents’ letters in September 1941. In 1945, Westheimer learned that her parents had been murdered in the Holocaust, possibly at the Auschwitz concentration camp.[3][4]”

  190. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_leadership

    “We must be silent before we can listen.
    We must listen before we can learn.
    We must learn before we can prepare.
    We must prepare before we can serve.
    We must serve before we can lead.”

    William Arthur Ward

  191. I must say that was exactly what I thought way before chanology seeing Tom Cruise on TV. As the News reader said that many Scientologists were poor because of paying for courses I wondered why Tom Cruise didn’t sponsor his fellow members of the faith.

  192. Same one.

  193. ED 1976 I myself can confirm as I was at ST Hill then also can confirm aswell those prices mentioned very reasonable.

  194. Billy Jack

    Quote, “but all should be vigilant because when the crematoriums and gas chambers (disguised as showers) are built,” …

    Well, we have been vigilant, and we have not failed to notice, and speak out against, the spiritual equivalent of the “showers/gas chambers” that has been “built”, and is being used within the “current Church”, as we speak.

    (I had crafted an analogy on all this regarding the “church’s” activities, but it left me feeling sick and disgusted, so I have deleted all but the above)

    Eric S

  195. martyrathbun09


  196. Billy
    That wins the prize as the most surprising response I’ve ever gotten on the blog.
    Thank you for the compliment 🙂

  197. Cool!
    I’m up for it if Karen is 🙂

  198. Me too.

  199. Exactly.
    Diaper days are over.

  200. Komra Moriko

    Thank you, LDW! this post helped me a great deal!

  201. Thanks Cat Daddy for this good comment.

    The reverse (dm style) could be
    We must threaten to make people listen.
    We must make them learn the lesson not to question.
    We must prepare to ruin them at all costs if they dare to question out loud.
    We must make examples of those who dare to listen to others.
    We must lead them by the nose, close their ears forever to any other voice.

  202. Ralph,
    I loved your statement that rings so succinctly: “There is a part of the technology that DM hides most ruthlessly and that is the power of real communication. Any OT can communicate freely with an SP without becoming PTS as long as they understand the PTS/SP data.”

    Having spent a good deal of time in the last year speaking out against Disconnection, your words have meant a great deal to me, and I have also stated that it is a control mechanism. But, it is backfiring on him, because LRH taught us about real communication, and DM can’t put up enough cold, chrome steel fast enough to be a barrier to the TRUTH, which is that he has usurped LRH’s power and adulterated his technology, and thetans are fleeing in record numbers, faster and faster, to the Indie Movement.
    Thanks for the reminder,
    Catherine von Ach

  203. 🙂 You shook their world a bit there koki!

  204. I understand wanting revenge as you said Tom. But I shrink away from revenge because of the examples DM gives of his indulging in it every day.

    I hate to think of “bloodthirsty” commev members excited to be on DM’s commev. Why should we follow THEIR example?

    Human emotion and reaction gets in THEIR way every day. Part of the reason for the continuous nonsensical foot bullets.

    I know we are dealing with very emotional subjects, and it seems part of the value of a blog like this is to provide outlets for deep charge, grief, hurt, and righteous anger at abuses perpetrated.

    But, I would like to take thirty deep breaths when considering DM’s commev and say:
    1. Committee members (like proper jury members in any justice system) should not go into it with their minds made up. Let alone wanting revenge.
    2. There is no clear Hubbard policy anywhere that I know of that says blatantly not to go to the police about crimes.
    3. Due to 1 and 2 above, I have to say what I would like to see:
    a. justice action L. Ron Hubbard policy style carried through to the issuing and overseeing of the findings and recommendations.
    b. justice action in any country where crimes can be charged to whatever final conclusions adjudged.
    4. Conclusion: We are not a lynch crowd – that is what DM does. We do not “take justice into our own hands because ____ (justification of cause A, B, or C). If we want justice to work, we have to make it work whether within a smaller group using its policies, or within a larger policial group using its laws. Only then will we ourselves keep “moving up a little higher” out of the mud instead of following the lead of any Lord of the Flies who comes along.

    All that said, I understand that part of this blog is the refreshing chance to let it all hang out, to vent, to get out stuff that has been surpressed for years, in other words – to communicate.

    Just sayin my views is all. No offense to anyone.

  205. Yes. Admiration feeds him – it is his drug.

  206. Perfect portrayal on so many levels!

  207. That is why I am an Operating Texan; they can’t revoke that one! I don’t need their stinkin’ leases! YEE HAW!

    LOL, Catherine von Ach

  208. Thanks, TO. You got it in one.

  209. Sherb, the executive C/Sing was a BIG problem for me. Here’s I’m a new Grad V C/S and I have an OT8 (ED) telling me what to program cases for!?! That’s where the close connection of that OT8 to DM came to influence me. Before that, I just did it by the book and it worked out great. The closer to DM people are (and at the top of the Bridge you are VERY close to him) the more insane and out-tech and arbitrary EVERYTHING becomes! That was in 1998! It’s only gotten WORSE since then!

  210. No. I saw a pattern in THEIR behaviour. Not yours.

  211. +1bizillion!

  212. In the Church of Scientology it is always OK as a practical joke for the church to find someone that may be upset about something real and seeking their help and ruin the person with alter-ised technology fas a joke and then spend years after trying to find other people to laugh about the joke with. I have looked at that way, and never, ever, ever to this day in all honesty been able to discover what could be so real to them about someone that they would need to do that as an organization. Evil intentions are a part of the church or there wouldn’t be people there making any money. A person starts out to go Clear for the first time and “winds up with problems” with OT VIII’s. The truth of the matter. I know a pretty “bat shit crazy” one myself and the only problem is I never really met the guy, he followed the church’s orders to go out of his way to meet me in an insane way. That is why I say that the Church of Scientology is always worse than anyone NEVER imagined (not ever imagined) because saying ever would be revealing the plot or the truth to people in advance, something the church hasn’t quite learned how to do yet.

  213. Yikes, makes the skin crawl doesn’t it. Glad you got the hell out of Dodge.

  214. Mark A. Baker

    Put simply the answer is: arc.

    When communicating to another an individual must be sure to communicate in a fashion which the other person can truly understand. The more potentially disturbing the datum the more important the need for a deep understanding of how another person is apt to see that datum in order to communicate it in a way they can ‘have’. The point being not to deny them the datum, but to avoid any unnecessary disturbance.

    ‘Spin’ has nothing to do with it, being simply an emotionally dishonest and low-toned form of misrepresentation. It could be thought of as a ‘lower harmonic’, if that is helpful to you.

  215. Lawrence, the Feshbach’s turned down many people. I am not a fan of theirs, however I do know that they got hit by HUNDREDS of people for loans for bridges simply because they were the richest people on the base, and it got out of hand. So don’t feel like you were the only one they said no to.

  216. Ralph, I bought my first 25 hours also in 1972 I believe it was, in Michigan from a Class VIII Field Auditor for $900.

    I don’t know what the exchange rate was then, but it looks like I paid more than you did! 🙂 But he was a Class VIIII and it was money well spent!

  217. Tory Christman

    Hey thank you, Sam!! It’s been an amazing ride. I’ve heard from tons of people that have made my heart sing. 3 of them are:
    1) A man who said he was nearly dead 5 years ago. He’d lost his Baptists religion, family, wife, career and was drinking 3 5ths/day and popping pills. He saw one of my videos–watched it “over and over more times than I’m willing to admit, from you I got the courage to STAND UP”! From there, he’s now alcohol free for one and a half years.
    2) A man PM’d me saying how much he appreciated my videos. However, what makes his different is he’s a Muslim, living in the Middle East. So as he said, “you’ve now crossed over areas, cultures and religions. Please keep doing what you’re doing”.
    3) The last was a lady on my FB page who said her husband was still “in” the “church’..but from my videos she and her son are now in *great* communication, and together.
    This is prolly more than you thought you’d get for an answer…but I wanted to share it with you, and all. My theory–having received help from ALL over the world: You just never know who you *may* help, IF you speak out.
    Love to you and ALL 🙂 Tory/Magoo

  218. CT, who said the outside world is oblivious of buttons to push? You are altering what I said.

  219. CT, Marty is right. Dr. Ruth does nothing but evaluate (meaning telling the person what is wrong with them) which is a no no in Scientology, It’s a bad habit that psychologists and psychiatrists use. Too much “evaluation” makes a person worse, not better. In Scientology, part of the Auditor’s code is to never evaluate or invalidate when auditing a person.

  220. You bet your bippy, Tara!! You are what you postulate. 😀


  221. Nothing but the sooth. Good analysis on all of DM’s “shockwave” events. He’s basically using a cattle-prod on Theta. Hmmm… now where can postulate that davey do-wrong put his…

    Gary (just a villager with lottsa burnin’ torches for DaMonster)

  222. Correction ( for historical purposes)

    Ralph, the wiki article you linked to does not identify who Scamisdat really was. This was discussed at ESMB in response to your post, above.

    Originally Posted by Infinit:e
    “True. And, isn’t scamizdat the name dreamed up by Grady Ward for a collection of Scientology writings posted on ARS by a bunch of people courtesy of the Fishman Affidavit?”

    To which Arnie Lerma replied:
    “Scamizdat was my old friend Joe Harrington, Joe was the one who mailed me many of the affidavits that I scanned and ocr’d in 1994 and 1995, culminating in the Fishman affidavit.

    In spring 1994, I posted to usenet alt.clearing.technology a Hello my name is.. any old freinds out there? and I got a reply from Joe, whom I knew when I was 17 and just getting involved in $cientology at FCDC…

    On his death bed, dying of pancreatic cancer, he said “I am Scamizdat” this is at the bottom of his memorial page, webbed here since the time he passed away:

    Joe Harrington Memorial Page a

    Further down, Arnie states:
    [..] And re Joe saying he was scamizdat… Joe prefered to operate anonymously, perhaps he was the first ANONYMOUS….(grin) [..]

    He may well be right, lol

  223. My appoligies. I was wrong.

  224. A Wise Fool

    Tell your friend to read HCOPL 28 Jan 1965 How to Maintain Credit Standing and Solvency. Then when Flag or the Ship call have her tell them, “I thought, ‘What would Ron do?” and I looked it up.” Then tell them to read the policy.

    If they persist ask them, “Per policy what is the whole purpose of ethics?” Then reference HCOPL 16 May 1965 Indicators of Orgs, “That’s the whole purpose of ethics – to Get Tech IN.”

  225. Nice quote of policy to refer yr friend “A wise Fool “It would be intresting to see what type of response is the return to l suggest the policy is looked up.LOL

  226. OK. But this was not a loan for a Bridge, just for a service needed in between. A small one. I wound up never getting it at all anyway instead and you know what Count, today, I really don’t even care that much any more. I would never think of asking them again or anyone else for that matter. Life is too important to waste it on dead ends.

  227. I’m sick of hearing about “OT” this or that…I don’t care what case level someone is…what frickin difference does it make…a koolaid drinker is a koolaid drinker. Why are you targetting OT8’s…i know some fucked up grades, clears, OT 4,5’s and the rest… I don’t know what the obsession is about what someone’s case level is…it never used to be like that and frankly makes me want to puke. How about we just talk about people and their products and actions irregardless of their case level. Enuff Already

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