Here is the White House Petition response sent to my email address, the same response that was apparently sent to all who signed the peitition to EXAMINE THE GOVERNMENT’S FAILURE TO INVESTIGATE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY CRIME, FRAUD AND ABUSE:
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 6:19 PM
Subject: Petition Response: Why We Can’t Comment on this Petition about the Church of Scientology
Why We Can’t Comment on this Petition about the Church of Scientology
Thank you for signing the petition “EXAMINE THE GOVERNMENT’S FAILURE TO INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY CRIME, FRAUD AND ABUSE.” We appreciate your participation in the We the People platform on WhiteHouse.gov.
The We the People Terms of Participation explain that “the White House may decline to address certain procurement, law enforcement, adjudicatory, or similar matters properly within the jurisdiction of federal departments or agencies, federal courts, or state and local government.” The Department of Justice is charged with investigating federal crimes and enforcing federal criminal laws. Accordingly, the White House declines to comment on the specific law enforcement matter raised in this petition.
Stay tuned to markrathbun.wordpress.com. You have made an election year error of magnitude.
I had already worked on an analysis and handling to post concerning an anticipated response such as this – it is about what I expected. I am holding it till early this week when a) the next installment of the St Pete Times has been aired and thoroughly discussed, and b) I am of a cooler, more rational frame of mind.
As many of you know I did not originate this petition, and have never advocated depending on any agency to solve the corrupt corporate church of Scientology. But, when I read the petition, I immediately signed on and encouraged others to do the same. Any injustice gone unremedied is another nail in the coffin of humanity. Now that we are engaged, the game ain’t over till the fat lady sings.
A little secret only Miscavige, Mike Rinder and I know. Remember all those confessions that Mike and I signed that corporate Scientology made such a big deal of in their Freedom mags? They were coerced as Mike and I have noted. However, there is a strong grain of truth to some of them. The ones where we take responsibility for alleged gigantic external legal and PR problems – what is true is that we did take responsibility for them. Now, here is the rub. We DID take responsibility for every tough break the church got in the past thirty years enroute to establishing immunity and Miscavige never did, even though his fingerprints were all over every loss. We hung in when the going got tough and ultimately saw that we prevailed on all fronts. Of course, Miscavige – who took no responsibility for any of the hard knocks suffered along the way – took all credit for the ultimate victories.
In other words, Miscavige is a fraud. A sniveling, punk coward. Not a single one of the billionaire Wall Street con men whose greed destroyed the US economy over the past decade was indicted, let alone convicted. For the very same reasons Miscavige – an habitual, repeat felon – walks free: MONEY. That – according to everything that the core principles of Scientology stand for, let alone the United States of America – denotes weakness of the most insidious kind.
We – on the other hand – are from the school of the hard knocks. We haven’t even broke a sweat in all the monkey business corporate Scientology has thrown our way over the past two years. Plan accordingly.
Wow Marty, this is what I call a Man, I mean You…! Don’t stop man, don’t stop! ^ ^
It has been obvious for a long time that Miscavige is a coward. The ONLY time he shows his face or makes a public statement is when it is to Koolaid drinking followers. He is not man enough to take a stand to anyone else.
He has no real power…he can not hold a position in space unless he has others to hold it there for him.
Oh, this just gets better and better!
I, too, was shocked when I got the email notice in my inbox about the White House being unable to deal with corruption in the FBI because the FBI is in charge of the FBI and nobody else!
Basically they are saying the same as, “Sorry, but Penn State and Joe Paterno looked into the charges against Sandusky and didn’t find anything worth reporting, so this case is closed.”
You have so MANY good people on your side…and there are no good people–NONE–on the other side!
Keep fighting the good fight!
Thank you Marty for such strong comments and your commitment to continued action. We need to discuss, deliberate and debate our next moves. My own initial reaction, as I have posted to several of the ‘boards,’ is that we move on to lobbying the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee (regarding the IRS fraud and enurement issues), and the House and Senate Judiciary Committees (regarding the DoJ and FBI issues). We could also try an immediate email campaign to the White House, DoJ and certain Senators and Representatives.
I think their response can actually be read in 2 different ways.
It is cleverly worded.
It could be interpreted that
1) They will do nothing
2) They are not going to comment on any on-going investigation whether already on going or whether even prodded by the White House
It is one of those
We cannot confirm or deny……
Marty ~~it really simply goads us into more deliberate action.
See how it is had inspired you ? (re-reading the above post)
6000+ people read and understood the criminality, brutality, atrocity and money rape, the disconnections and SP declares and
the sheer THUGGERY.
Nobody is just going to home happy, get into bed and pull the covers over and forget about it all.
This Petition is only the beginning.
I just received the same email from “The White House” at my hushmail.com email account. My interpretation of this message (assuming it’s an authentic message from The White House — see last paragraph below) allows for an interpretation that DOJ and its agencies (the FBI?) are already investigating the crimes described in our petition and that The White House doesn’t want to muddy the waters for / of that investigation.
Also, curiously, this message from “The White House” was accompanied by the following message from hushmail: “Warning: This message may be forged. The return path (email@example.com) does not match the from address.”
So — there are multiple possible interpretations of this message and even uncertainty as to whether it’s really from The White House.
In other words, thus far — FAIL, White House!
Great minds think alike. I enjoy sharing the same page as The Marty Man!! We are singing to the choir. You sing tenor or bass. I know the dwarf sings castrato hence the nickname ‘little dickie’.
This is simply Pontius Pilat washing his hands of the whole thing. I’m sure the white house doesn’t want the stench to pollute their campaign. Jesus was innocent, not so DM.
And don’t even worry about it. False reality entities like corporations want to try destroy mankinds me and you, but yet looking past the future persons (people) have anihilated corporations.
Natural Clear Super Static
Like you, with the Data Series playing in the background of my mind, had no hopes hung on this petition. The reams of data you and Mike have yet to share are the only things that will break the back of co$.
I, for one, am eagerly awaiting the onslaught. I understand ethics Gradient, but the time is coming to escalate.
Good things come to those who persist.
I wish I could be there to help, my friend.
The future for all of this will be epic. No doubt.
Hard times ahead for the short one.
Just look toward the guide to Akashic Reords.
He has given permission for us all to write the future
Got my response. Such cowardly b.s.
Then, immediately after sending my reply, this message was received:
“Due to the high volume of messages received at this address, the White House is unable to process the email you just sent. To contact the White House, please visit:
Your overgrown government at its best, folks!
This has helped me make up my mind. I will now do phone calls for Ron Paul. He is the only person running that I have any respect for because he says the same things decade after decade, never changing for anyone. He isn’t pretty and slickly appealing like the others, he just speaks from the heart with realness and honesty. Also, mainstream media does its worst to blackout his speeches, that alone speaks volumes about how much of a threat he is. I like a guy who can be that threatening to the status quo. 🙂
You might be jumping the gun here. This is a form letter sent to anyone signing any petition. I got the same letter after I signed a petition regarding off-shore oil drilling leases in California. For what it’s worth.
I received my White House email just a few hours ago, and even though that general type of response was not to be unexpected, I was still quite taken aback by its dismissive tone. It doesn’t come off well.
This petition has had a wide reach, and there will be thousands of people who will be starting their day on a note of disappointment when they check their inboxes in the morning.
Regardless, amassing such an amount of signatures from concerned individuals is quite an accomplishment that cannot truly be ignored. Its primary function now is to raise awareness about the abuses in the CoS within the community at large.
This petition served as a device to educate, and in that regard, it has been a major success.
I was expecting pretty much a “no response” response, myself.
My take is that there is a concept among most polititicians and elected judicial types, that there is no fame, glory or money to be had in taking down miscavige. And that anyone who enteres the arena and views the carnage that miscavige is capaple of generating, that they back off quickly.
And yet, I would imagine that anyone who did face the litte dictator and expose his crimes and get him prosecuted, would in fact seem somewhat of a hero to his constituants and could quite possibly garner a significant number of votes…especially in the bible belt. It would, without a doubt, be a nationwide affair.
I’m waiting with eager anticipation for the next installment of the SP Times expose and M& M’s brilliant responses. It’s at the tipping point of “too much truth to ignore.”
I’m not surprised by this response either. What was positive, though, was so many people coming together to sign it. A real esprit de corps. Another positive is exposing Obama more.
From an interview on his film about fighters against oppression in the past “The people speak” Howard Zinn answered this:
BILL MOYERS: What do you think these characters from the past that we will see on the screen, what do they have to say to us today?
HOWARD ZINN: Well, I think what they have to say to us today is think for yourself. Don’t believe what the people up there tell you. Live your own life. Think your own ideas. And don’t depend on saviors. Don’t depend on the Founding Fathers, on Andrew Jackson, on Theodore Roosevelt, on Lyndon Johnson, on Obama. Don’t depend on our leaders to do what needs to be done.
Because whenever the government has done anything to bring about change, it’s done so only because it’s been pushed and prodded by social movements, by ordinary people organizing, by, you know, Lincoln pushed by the anti-slavery movement. You know, Johnson and Kennedy pushed by the southern black movement. And maybe hopefully Obama today, maybe he will be pushed by people today who have such high hopes in him, and who want to see him fulfill those hopes.
You know, traditional history creates passivity because it gives you the people at the top and it makes you think that all you have to do is go to the polls every four years and elect somebody who’s going to do the trick for you. And no. We want people to understand that that’s not going to happen. People have to do it themselves”
“You know, democracy doesn’t come from the top. It comes from the bottom. Democracy is not what governments do. It’s what people do.”
I don’t care what one is looking at, there is always an earlier beginning, more to the story and a bigger picture.
Speaking of a bigger picture and more to the story, have you seen the movie, Thrive yet? If not, I very much encourage you to do so. It’s available on Youtube, it’s free and it’s 2hr 8min and 40sec long.
Thrive is an educational movie with really impressive graphics. Most of the information presented in the movie will not be new news to any who visit or comment on Marty’s blog. However, the arrangement of the info and how it is presented is one of the best I’ve seen. And, while Thrive does take the viewer on a route through a zone of entheta, it certainly does not leave anyone there. The movie has a wonderfully theta ending.
Now, speaking of theta….this video is theta.
“Right now, the US Congress is debating a law that would give them the power to censor the world’s Internet — creating a blacklist that could target YouTube, WikiLeaks and even groups like Avaaz!
Under the new law, the US could force Internet providers to block any website on suspicion of violating copyright or trademark legislation, or even failing to sufficiently police their users’ activities. And, because so much of the Internet’s hosts and hardware are located in the US, their blacklist would clamp down on the free web for all of us.
The vote could happen any day now, but we can help stop this — champions in Congress want to preserve free speech and tell us that an international outcry would strengthen their hand. Let’s urgently raise our voices from every corner of the world and build an unprecedented global petition calling on US decision makers to reject the bill and stop Internet censorship. Sign now and then forward as widely as possible — our message will be delivered directly to key members of the US Congress ahead of the crucial vote. ” (15 November 2011)
Marty, I think it was still a good move. We have positioned ourself as being on the side of the law. We have expanded on new communication lines. Our concern has received attention and will continue to receive attention, apparently not on White House Public Relation lines, though. As I see it, it has been a step in a process. And the process will be continued to its final success.
Marty, I would read that response as legalese meaning the opposite of what you are taking it to say: it means they ARE investigating, and that is why they cannot comment at this time.
A Thetan loves a tragedy…
The most optimistic interpretation of the White House response is that it cannot comment on an investigation in progress, A realistic interpretation is that too many have been bought or they don’t give a shit. It is a sad commentary on our “free society”, which really stopped being free a long time ago. We’re not yet under a complete fascist take-over (and hopefully the rapidly growing 99% movement will help put a stop to that), but we’re rapidly getting there. If Bush and his criminal administration were not investigated by the Obama justice department for their lying and war crimes, why would a peanut like Miscavige be for his criminal behavior? It is sickening, discouraging, frustrating and infuriating. But there are good people with clear voices out there and they will be heard.
Marty, there is no reason to go after Obama now. That is exactly what the Church has always done: being psychotic, it reacts to every perceived threat and goes after every critic. That’s also off-purpose and very counter-productive. We all saw what happened, we can make our own decisions now as far as voting (the Hell will freeze over before I vote for a Republican but that’s just me). Look at the positive side: there were over 5000 signatures there.
I think the White House’s response was inevitable. With an election looming the Administration will steer well clear of controversial issues. But the petition was very important in making many more people aware that the organization known as the Church of Scientology has skeletons in its closet. Criminal behavior going unpunished because of privilege and influence is something few Americans will accept.
But with the lessons of Waco and Ruby Ridge in mind the FBI is very cautious in prosecuting cases where ‘religious beliefs’ could be used as a defense. There is a limit though, as Warren Jeffs, now languishing in prison found out. David Miscavige is subject to the law and whilst in his case justice moves slowly, he will answer for his crimes in the end.
Dear Marty, Thanks again for sharing your “power” that feeds us all collectively, with the TR3 and TRUTH necessary, to bring this “Church of Madness” into the GLARE of world SCRUTINY. Not withstanding this latest (expected!) Obama response, it occurred to me that it takes “something special” something “so shocking” in order to ” focus and sustain ” the scrutiny required. What I’m trying to say, might articulate thus; ( possible TIME MAGAZINE cover;) “IS THIS THE MOST DUPLICITOU$ CON MAN OF MODERN TIMES?”
BTW, YOU are doing an absolutely INCREDIBLE job and I sincerely hope that MOST of the THETA and power returned to you, is being received as such! You DESERVE it ALL !!!
Lots’a luv to YOU & MOSEY Li’ll bit
Yeah – I got the same email. Madone!
It was a great project. I am proud to have signed the petition. The fact that 6,154 other people did shows that there are people who care about this.
I look forward to the next round.
Ignorance To Liberty Turns Into Tyranny
“I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” – Thomas Jefferson (inscribed along the inner dome of the Jefferson Memorial)
“Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.” -Benjamin Franklin
Yet one more reason why Barack Obama deserves no support in his reelection bid. The obvious corollary to TWTH Precept 10 “Support a Government Designed and Run for All the People,” is “Withdraw Support for a Corrupt Government Run Solely for the 1%.” And this is precisely what is beginning to happen across the country. People are waking up to the fact that the Demon-rats and Repugnant-cons are two sides of the same coin whose purpose is NOT to serve the majority. LRH is dead on: you don’t have to do anything violent, just stop supporting a corrupt government and it will come crashing down. When people stop paying their taxes en masse the 1% will start listening. There aren’t enough police or IRS agents to enforce a mass agreement to no longer support The System. Of course, it takes a while for the message to get out there. Look at the tempest in our own teapot with that most corrupt of Popes, DM. But it IS happening.
Marty we are from the school of Hard Knocks!!! Thanks mate! Another Hard Knock and Injustice for thousands to see. This is a wimp as well as a cold/injust answer. Let’s carry on with our Hard Knocks! I am getting flat on them, LOL!
This is my first time posting here. I have been reading this blog for about a year and I just can’t help suspecting that there are many more Scientologists doing the same. Scientologists tend to listen and they have a willingness to confront Truth or they would not have been interested in the subject of Scientology in the first place. I did not want to post until I felt that it was time to use my real name, but I am jumping the gun here because you, Marty, and you, Mike, as well as everyone else who contributes Truth here deserve to be acknowledged for defending Scientology. Keep the Faith.
No agency which is mid-investigation is going to blow all its undercover and years of case building to pop before tbey have a rock solid case.
The other consideration is as mentioned in the citation above, pressure from a paid-off agency actively blocking a move. What’s REALLY needed is to cut the dono to the pplitico’s voa an. Angered judeo-christian base of supporters. (Once they’re given a file full of undercover ops run against they’re. Various members and branches)
Anyone who knows you even casually Marty would not doubt for a millisecond that this response would do anything but motivate and invigorate you further in the relentless pursuit of what’s right. These words from MLK could have have been written for and about you:
“Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable… Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals”.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I received the same email! It’s very disappointing but was partially to be expected! I cant help but feel like the response meant they would look into the comments made on the petition but could not comment at this time! Or am off track being optimistic?
So, the top of the US administration refuses to investigate potential outside influence into governmental agencies. As an ex ethics officer I would say, they have some overts on that line and I would try to uncover some big withholds.
The text doesn’t match the headline Marty. The corruption isn’t in one branch of government or one political party, it’s everywhere and groups like our little cult are taking advantage of it, everywhere. Miscavige didn’t create the Jeff Stones and Sheriff Bacas that do his bidding, the corrupt lawyers on his payroll, they were there ready and waiting for him. He didn’t create a world in which people would rather listen to the wit and wisdom of Hollywood actors than think for themselves either.
I’m in the land Down Under so it’s my bedtime, but I’m going to sleep with a smile on my face – it comes from knowing.
Knowing the integrity and tenacity of my mates.
Anyone may fear a Conspiracy!?
Our battle is not of flesh and blood, it is just and we will prevail.
Hope Is A Postulate!
This whole situation is as Ron would say “an operation” In the face of suppression “Flourish and Prosper”. Keep on devulging the crimes and double the stats. Love You.
As you said Marty — the response does not surprise you. Nor me.
Here’s a terrific book: “With Liberty and Justice for Some: How the Law is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful” by Glenn Greenwald
This book *could* be about corporate scientology. What Greenwald points out so clearly is that MONEY has ALWAYS protected the rich, from the law thanks to better lawyers etc etc.
HOWEVER, no adays the rich and powerful AS Marty points out NEVER even make to TO court. Are never ever brought to justice.
They OWN the justice. In fact, they own it all.
Time to give up? Hardly.
Time to WAKE UP and realize that it’s only and always ultimately UP TO YOU.
UP to you to be yourself, honest, forthright and no matter how hard kind to yourself and others.
NOT namby pamby because true kindness takes courage and a steely-eyed determination to help your fellow man.
Thanks for continuing to shine the light, Marty, Mike and others. Truth always prevails as it is the higher vibration/tone
“A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation.” – Thomas Jefferson
Across the boards, there is a trend…a trend of people becoming more aware of the criminal corruption of governments, corporations and churches.
The exposure of DM’s crimes is like a rising graph with more and more folks finding out. Eventually, his crimes will be “an everybody knows”.
I am glad that more people are waking up.
I am amazed at the huge number of folks who now know about World Trade Center Building 7 and 9/11/01 (the ultimate con job…duping the world). The 15 minute Building 7 video narrated by Ed Asner is something everyone should watch.
Click on my name for the video.
When an incident like this happens, we tend to focus our attention on the speck and its many facets. Examining such, we beome egrossed and somewhat overwhelmed and set aside our mission of freedom for all humanity.
This incident is not to be a stumbling block. For if this happens, we deminish our power (KRC) and descend to levels beow of understanding (ARC/CRA) and become slaves and puppets to a system that needs to be set free from the insideous structure of third and fourth dynamic aberration.
Those of you who have completed your upper level processing, per actual LRH research and discovery, know from where I speak.
Let us move on from this observed “chaos and confusion” toward our true goal of human freedom.
Recall the Power of the Postulate – it does noot contain Doubt.
It is only in this way (action of setting beings free) that the injustices and darkness of the organization of David will come to naught and vanish.
I agree. The Internet operating in an unfettered way has been a milestone improvement to The People and I’m talking about on a global basis.
It’s got its disadvanatages such as child porn, public lies etc. but the upside dwarfs any of its dings.
Thanks for that one DJ.
Ole TJ is kickass aint he?
Went to WhoIs and this is who owns that email
408 Saint Peter Street
St. Paul, MN 55102
Domain Name: GOVDELIVERY.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Sommerness, David firstname.lastname@example.org
408 St. Peter St.
SAINT PAUL, MN 55102
(651) 726-7300 fax: (651) 665-0943
Record expires on 26-Jul-2012.
Record created on 18-May-2004.
Database last updated on 19-Nov-2011 09:00:37 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Creation Date: 26-JUL-2001
Updated Date: 27-MAY-2011
Expiration Date: 26-JUL-2012
Good point Michael – context is important.
Interesting point “They are not going to comment on any on-going investigation whether …
There’s a good one. And any other injustices and darkness.
It’s a bit of a horse race, isn’t it?
The following book might come in handy.
Title: “An Army of Davids” by Glenn Reynolds
From the cover: How markets and technology empower ordinary people to beat big media, big government and other Goliaths.
From the flap: “The balance of power between the individual and organization is finally evening out. And it’s high time the Goliaths of the world pay attention, because an Army of Davids is on the move.
Worsel, thanks. Signed.
Marty was told the same thing by the FBI only to find out it was a lie.
No. This is political delay of responsibility. There is no investigation. There will be NO investigation until Uncle Sam figures out how they can PROFIT from going after Co$. Money is the reason of any political season. Show Congress and the White House how the Co$ is stealing from the govt., and watch the gears get in motion.
We are thinking along the same lines. I just want some time so that I communicate clearly direction with the least complexity and most effectiveness.
do not panic and let the tech people handle the problem. We are well on our way on „virtual internet“ a net in a net. IP6 (the new addressing standard) Clouds (in a cloud you do not see very well) and more to come will enable a new world of communication no government can control as they always are 10 years behind the developement of new creations. Only the not so creative ones work for governments. We the computer people also have an ethics standard. We, the admins no one looks at but work hard to have all those machines running (they need a lot of care), do not engage in this on a broad scale.
If one were to simply look at the org board, the FBI’s senior is the US Attorney General, Eric Holder. Although he is appointed by the President, an independent investigation would be one of his duties.
Per the DOJ website, the mission of the Office of the Attorney General is to supervise and direct the administration and operation of the Department of Justice, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Drug Enforcement Administration, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Bureau of Prisons, Office of Justice Programs, and the U.S. Attorneys and U.S. Marshals Service, which are all within the Department of Justice.
According to his video, he meets with the head of the FBI daily.
Perhaps the violations that have been reported have already been reported to the US Attorney General. If so, I am for using every means of raising government awareness available to ensure Justice does occur. I’m looking forward to your “official” response.
The government is wholly comprimised. That was pretty evident in 2008 when the big lenders were bailed out, paid one another gigantic bonuses and then got their “Golden Parachutes” and jumped from the doomed airplane called “America” leaving all of us in the cockpit trying to fire it back up and now realizing they also took the keys with them. And the surprise to us all if that they pulled it off with COMPLETE IMPUNITY. That was the surprise in all of this. .
It was discovered recently that 60% of congress are millionaires. That fact speaks for itself. Government individuals are getting wealthy from “Special Interest” groups with and these individuals are collecting their booty with complete impunity.
The C of S is now a “Special Interest Group”, thus their aparent impunity.
Dr. Alexander Tytler, a Scot professor, wrote the following in the mid 18th century, just before the formation of the 13 colonies:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. (largess = the generous giving of money, gtifts and favors)
“From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:
“From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance;
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to apathy;
from apathy to dependence;
from dependency back again into bondage.”
Spot where we are right now. We are not too far from bondage. Most of the above occured in my lifetime and I am sure the rest will too occur in my lifetime.
Dave Miscaviage is “enjoying” his time as a dictator in his small, dwindling realm, snuggled in a bunker with several armed bodyguards, fearing poisen in his food or drink, fearful of stepping outside intlo the warm sun lest a bullet finds him, fearful of those around him who might try to stab him with their dagger. Knowing how many people hate him wears at him like an ever-growing ulcer. Isn’t life grand for despised despots?
Because of idiots like David, Democracy, the pipe dream, is dead. America is dead. Organized Scientology is dead. Anything good is dying. Greed is absolutely alive and is the cancer that will consume all of us.
The thing to do is deliver Scientology and Dianetics before it is too late. Organize up and deliver. That’s important now.
I responded to the email by saying, ” so you support these abuses, yes? “
Marty — I guess you are demonstrating who is really dauntless around here (clue – it ain’t the IASsholes). It is remarkable but not at all surprising the characteristics shared by POB/Corporate Scn and the US Government: accumulating power and getting rich, while bankrupting and destroying the financial viability of its constituents, increasingly abrogating and violating the rights of its constituents, and perverting and betraying the principles upon which it was founded. I was a staunch supporter of Obama in 2008, but he is even worse that Bush was, if that is even possible. He is the same type of fraud as POBliterator – pretense of being the champion of that and those which he is actually destroying. Won’t get fooled again. Ron Paul or Gary Johnson are the only presidential candidates that might change the course of US government, but that is better than corporate Scientology which has no candidates for righting its course.
Asking the government to sort Scientologys’ problems out won’t work, because the government is responsible for these problems in the first place.
DM is the USURPER PLANT sent in to DESTROY the CHURCH.
Wow, what a bunch of lazy gum’ment bureacrats…
That is the take I had too, Karen, when I read their response. If the government were already investigating they surely wouldn’t want to tip their hand. They just say they cannot comment. They do say the Dept. of Justice investigates crime and fraud.
Greta Van Susteren has a show on Fox News. She seems very friendly with ALL major Washington players, Obama, Gingrich, Romney etc. Why MSNBC and CNN don’t pull a O’Reilly/Jesse James (Jesse James confronts people in the streets and asks questions they’re not willing to come on camera and answer) stunt and ask her what she thinks of David Miscaviges abuses in the COS – beats me. If she refuses to answer she’s a coward, if she answers she is not aware of it, she’s an idiot, if she says (like she should) that it’s disgusting and should be investigated by the authorities, then we got another ally. She seems to be a person of integrity. She is tainted by having Scientology attached to her name. She ought to have enough integrity to call violations of human rights in the COS as she does any other group.
Anyone has any connections to investigative reporters at CNN and MSNBC?
Whoever wrote this email has a crashing MU on the word, ‘petition.’ It means to address a wrong, and is a matter of last resort when other branches of the government have failed. So to say that the White House cannot comment on issues of law enforcement is missing the point spectacularly. Is there a possibility this came from the White House ‘customer services’ in other words someone fairly low on the totem pole?
It used to be that the judiciary acted as the opposition to the executive branch of government, or at least provided a balance.
Am not sure that’s the case anymore and would suggest that the media wear this hat now as far as keeping the executive accountable.
What is the US equivalent of judicial review?
Bela, I’d say you’ve got him pegged!
Good stuff, Marty.
I’m staying tuned…
Dan, we only have two possible parties here and both are bad and you knock both of them. One of them will be in power in 2012. Which one of the two should it be or we should vote for? It is not workable to simply badmouth both of them. And then what?
I have voted for either the Libertarian or Constitution Party candidates since 1988. I vote my conscience.
Also, Dr. Ron Paul hasn’t ruled out a third party run in 2012 as the Libertarian candidate.
Thank you for this, signed and forwarded.
I’m trying to figure out what the White House WOULD comment on, per their terms of service. It doesn’t seem to leave much that anyone would be likely to petition about.
“Show Congress and the White House how the Co$ is stealing from the govt., and watch the gears get in motion.” Bozz
That is it exactly. However, notice how this administration itself has used billions of tax-payer dollars to subsidize out-exchange, criminal people and mega-corporations who so grossly personally benefited and continue to do so. The White House and many in Congress are aligned with such men and activities and no doubt see nothing wrong, it is seen, but not viewed for what it is. DM is just one of the crowd far as they are concerned. We are simply pesky irritants, like the Tea Party is to the government. The way to deal with pesky irritants is to ignore them and when they make themselves too noticeable and must be dealt with, why then you simply attempt to make them look foolish. It’s a great tactic and has been quite effective for this administration, just as it works for dm. There are many parallels between what is occurring in the White House and in Hemet. There is even a Hole in both scenarios. The major difference is that dm has nobody there to check him at all, except Indies.
NYC has finally turned fully into the valence of its attackers and moved like a Police State against protesters who stand up to disagree with the spending of tax-dollars in such a way and think that business and government should have ethics put in. I do not wholly agree with the Occupy movement, however, I fully agree with their individual rights to meet and protest lawfully and peacefully. The Police State has begun in earnest in NYC and this will continue to be the norm, unless pressure continues to be brought against those who would suppress others.
We did not manage to use Scientology to hold things off long enough to settle mankind to the point of being able to prevent what is coming. The US has not managed to hold to the ideals it was founded on either. It is and will become more so, a rough game to play. On the upside, we still have the superior technology and most on this blog know very well how to use it; what is more, the purpose here is clean and the goal here is far superior to the opponents’.
That is my humble view of things in a nutshell.
Marty & Company,
You have my admiration and respect always. Thanks for all that you do.
Tom, I love it, and completely agree with the sentiment.
Just to be clear about one thing. The only reason I will vote “Republican” is because Ron Paul has been forced to run under that soiled banner and one is only allowed to vote in Primaries if you are registered either Rep, Dem or Independent. If he misses the nomination in the Primaries, then he will run as Libertarian, which is what I am actually.
Welcome to the best group in town. We look forward to hearing more from you.
The 408 st. peter street .. st. paul mn. is two blocks away from the new COS ideal org … and another stones throw from the MN. State Capitol with all attendant Govt. buildings laid out in Wash. DC. format….
Visi is a local internet firm that started about 10 years back..
So, why did the White House move to St.Paul MN. …?
also, I know a Yale Lawyer who works for the Senate Judiciary in D.C.
Not to start a discussion on politics but a third party candidate will hand the election to Obama. No doubt about it. Remember Ross Perot?
They take 664 Billion a year for annual budget…
And they can’t handle email traffic?
Or perhaps there ALREADY IS an ongoing investigation going on under the hood and launching 2 at the same time and revealing the private details of the other might slow things down a bit! 🙂 The FBI has raided the Church of Scientology before on 90% less information available to them before the internet arrived and at a time when the church was 50% or less than its current size. So never understimate the U.S. Government, they usually come through.
For the administration, the key issue in this petition isn’t the human rights violations or the fraud on a $billion scale. Those may be our issues, but the fact that the Church was able to derail an FBI investigation is what should be keeping somebody in Washington up at night.
In an election year neither side is going to go after Scientology and risk another Waco, but somewhere in the upper reaches of the Justice Dept. somebody was bought off, and if Obama doesn’t want to root them out, the opposition certainly will. We just need to bring it to their attention.
Tom, I think you are right.
See this recent article by Paul Craig Roberts, a former high member of the US-government and in many positions of influence, he is a whistleblower today.
His observations point in the same direction of your comment, his conclusion is somewhat fatalistic. Personally, I would rather replace it with yours:
“The thing to do is deliver Scientology and Dianetics before it is too late. Organize up and deliver. That’s important now.”
“We just need to bring it to their attention.”
Exactly. The opposition is already going after Eric Holder regarding “fast and furious.” This may also be of interest to them. More corruption at the DoJ.
I’m smiling right along witchya. 😀
I’m here if you need a sounding board…x
…”They do say the Dept. of Justice investigates crime and fraud.”…
Yes… But with this kind of justification the “government really doesn’t have to look into anything. They supposedly already have departments and such in place to handle ALL aspects of governing the country.
The whole point of our petition, as I see it, was to look into why the departments or agencies that are supposed to be addressing this issue seem to be failing miserably in their investigations and handlings of the illegalities that have been brought to light.
We say that the that various agencies are apparently not doing their jobs, and the response is basically, “we do not interfere with the departments that are supposed to do those jobs.” That is simply total nonconfront, and “suppressive reasonableness”.
Well… If the government cannot self inspect, or senior bodies cannot or will not “put ethics in ” on junior bodies, then the government is worse than ineffective, it is TREASONOUS. This is “BETRAYAL AFTER TRUST”.
They need to either do their jobs or GET THE F–K OUT!
If they do not “get their own ethics in”, then “we the people” will have to do it for them.
Good point, make the downfall of the Cof$ someones stat with their own game, nice targeting.
Yes, a disturbing email.
Treason is quickly becoming the epidemic of the 21st century.
The term Independant is getting some Govt’l help in expanding its defintions.
What’s that LRH term? When the going gets confusing, do the usual.
Office of the Inspector General. If that’s DoJ’s Internal Affairs, then they probably hate each other. Anyone see “Serpico”? Discreetly calling to ask the OIG “Do you initiate investigations based on public allegations?” might shed some light on whether the WH “no comment” meant A or B. Any mention of “Scn” would probably run right into a discreet “One moment please.”
The WH reponse may have been under some pressure, focused on the FBI issues, since it’s hard to see how it would be a WH or DoJ matter to “not comment” on other countries’ actions, but they **might** have crushed us a bit with “Other countries’ actions do not influence U.S. religious beliefs”.
The Rubashkin petition response included a hint to go through a DoJ department. Why not the same language in the response to the Scn petition? Why state “… this …” petition? Is that a hint to change a couple of words? … or … are they letting us know they’re aware there are other petitions out there? … or … maybe they’re telling us questioning is good?
Obvious diplomats are diplomats. “Our preliminary exchanges with the WH have been promising”.
The WH site has the response.
Agreed, the White House Reply CAN be interpreted that way… however, it is a ‘wishful’ assumption… that a case IS in progress, and is only being delayed for lack of evidence in sufficient quantity that will overwhelm any and all attempts to refute, delay or deny in Federal Court. The FBI can raid and confiscate at any time… but with the size and allies the COS now has it will be able to dominate the media even though public opinion is overwhelmingly against it…. not unlike the frustrations we are seeing from large and disparate groups protesting in the Occupy Wall Street events here and around the world…
The DOJ is even under attack from Financial Journalists around the world for not taking any action at all on Wall Street Kingpins… even though the evidence is abundant…
One thing I agree on Whole-Heartedly is that this only going to make WE.. the people Double-Down on our Resolve to carry this to a final moment of justice and change.
It is about much more than “Independents” it is about what we will and will not stand for in OUR Country… you just cannot do this to our people and live free under the flag that so many have sacrificed in blood, sorrow and sweat… to build.
Final note, I do not recall exactly the formula… but remember that for every person who stands up and is counted… they really represent hundreds, even thousands who feel the same way but lack the courage to overcome the RISK… of walking up and standing that line… and saying … No More.
Does the following sound unrealistic in a political debate:
“Are two burly guards chasing down and physically tackling to the ground – physically tackling – a young adult woman running across an open field desperately attempting to escape the Co$ compound, something you call “encouraging volunteers”? What do you call what is on top of that fence, pointing inwards? Is chasing someone down with DOGS in the middle of the night what you call “encouraging volunteers”? Is bursting into someone’s home in the middle of the night what you call a “community outreach” program? Do you chase down members of YOUR congregation like escaped convicts? Have we come to that point, where we call something like this prison camp a “religion”? How do you “justify” that? Even Federal maximum security prisoners have access to television, the internet, family members, and telephones! These “members” of the Co$ are DENIED that access! And they are paid less than prisoners, in a “rehabilitation program” designed to humiliate and degrade, are given “jobs” cleaning out sewage pipes with no hazmat suits, are not permitted the privacy of toilets, are not allowed regular showers twice a week, are not allowed a change of clothes, are forced to run in the desert heat around a tree for 12 hours a day for weeks on end ignoring permanent medical damage caused, and are fed diets of rice and beans that alone would lead to a prison revolt, regardless of the other tortures inflicted upon them! They are subject to conditions of imprisonment and pointless interrogation sessions and sleep deprivation that, if we subjected our detainees at Guantanamo to the same indignities, would have the International Red Cross and the United Nations Committe on Human Rights and Amnesty International all together knocking down our doors in united violent protest, fighting each other for the press microphones!”
“The We the People Terms of Participation explain that “the White House may decline to address certain procurement, law enforcement, adjudicatory, or similar matters properly within the jurisdiction of federal departments or agencies, federal courts, or state and local government.” “
Hurrah! (But I’ll sign anyway. The WH site has a petition on about this as well.)
If we get someone like you or Marty in Amsterdam we could get some publicity. Just saying.
preferbaly Alsoo speaking at an University as part of the programm.
Obama probably lost thousands of votes for next year as a result of this email.
At some point a scientologist of Greta’s stature is going to do a full, nationwide expose on the corruption of this little dictator.
Oh, oops…Mike and Marty et al. along with Cooper and the boys at the SP Times already have.
I guess Greta got scooped and she doesn’t even know it. Ahhh ignorance is such bliss (for a short while only)
I’m of the notion to let nature take its course.
windhorse, I love reading your contributions. thank you.
I was in the COM for a very short time, and I am thankful for the disillusionment. The situation with the COM brought me to a point of readiness to view and understand the abject corruption of our governments. It really _is_ up to us. There are significant challenges ahead on almost every level. Personally we are working in our neighborhoods to make them more stable and sustainable.
Cowboy Poet says “The Internet operating in an unfettered way has been a milestone improvement to The People and I’m talking about on a global basis.” Woo! The universal solvent at play — profound, powerful and freeing. This, coupled with what George says**, and the fact that at least 97.5% of people are good and capable of helping, sometimes in the most inspiring ways, keeps the mountain clearly in view.
**what George says: “do not panic and let the tech people handle the problem. We are well on our way on „virtual internet“ a net in a net. IP6 (the new addressing standard) Clouds (in a cloud you do not see very well) and more to come will enable a new world of communication no government can control as they always are 10 years behind the developement of new creations. Only the not so creative ones work for governments. We the computer people also have an ethics standard. We, the admins no one looks at but work hard to have all those machines running (they need a lot of care), do not engage in this on a broad scale.”
I was just thinking last night: what an org it would be with the people posting on this blog.
The opposition doesn’t have to go after the CofS, per se, just after the corruption in the DofJ. Lots of noise and indignation about the appearance of the DofJ being bought–while not having to confront the actual crimes of the CofS. That way, there’s always someone else to blame.
A politician’s dream: make the other guy look bad without having to actually take responsibility for the situation.
Very intelligent commentary in your two posts immediately above. The principal reason I would vote Republican is because I get tired of bigger government that translates into “I have a right to free food, free clothing, free housing, free education, free medical care, and free beer and drugs at hospitals.” Somebody somewhere is making $200k a year with a family in a big city and has to shell out $50k of that in taxes to pay for someone else’s food, clothing, housing, education, and medical care – then they have to stand in line behind them and wait.
I joke with my building’s plumber that “I have a right to free sanitation!” Last suit I bought (they know me), I managed to look very surprised at the receipt, and said, “You mean I actually have to PAY for this?!” I saw a couple with food stamps the other day, in front of us in line. Loaded with NY Strip steaks, and the guy was wearing a Rolex.
Politically, I long for the days of the 1700’s, when the world was fresh and hopeful, and I now long sadly for the day when I am no longer required under penalty of confiscation or even imprisonment, to place a stranger above my own family priorities. Roads and bridges and defense, I understand. Supporting someone else by mandate, I do not understand. That said, I also do not understand how some mega-wealthy individuals (I mean in the hundreds of millions) come to lose perspective on money, letting it flow like water on ridiculous luxuries, apparently no longer able to discern how much is enough, seeking more, then turning around and give it away by the billions to charities before thinking to establish schools to teach men to fish. But I especially abhor criminality – not necessarily unlawful acts, but moral criminality, and absence of sound values. Some of it makes me ill.
Sorry to talk political, but the WH petition and all ….
Perhaps the days of freshness and hope with an infinite future will come again.
Davey was born in the Church and made to destroy Scientology.
Rereading the white house response, I would suspect that the White House aide sent the petition to the Dept of Justice, Holder specifically, and told him to look into it, without throwing their own under the bus in the meantime, since it would reflect on their watch.
The White House response may seem muted but what they do with it quite another. I think at a minimum it was forwarded to be looked into. I actually doubt that the investigation was ever halted. Whomover said it was may have done so for any of the following;
1. trying to make it go away,
2. been kept in the dark themselves or misled as they have now become a target of the investigation,
3. lying as part of the government plan to create space in which to operate and continue the investigation.
I do not think for a minute that its over. And even if it was on hold, like a teapot on a hot stove, it eventually erupts. And the stove keeps getting hotter every day.
The last time the US government raided the Church (late 70’s), the Church was actively freeing thetans and moving them up to OT power. Today the Church is enslaving thetans and making sure they never acquire OT power. The government knows that, and they like it. Therefore, as long as doing nothing about the petition doesn’t hurt them in some substantial way, they will let the Church do whatever it wants.
The government higher-ups the petition asks Obama to handle are, with Obama, members of a vast, interlocking network of beings co-operating to acquire and maintain power. As such, they completely understand and condone DM’s actions, because he’s only doing what they themselves would do if they were in his shoes. He’s not a danger to them, and in fact serves a useful purpose for them. Therefore, they’re completely happy to let him have his small “share of the pie” as his reward. What’s a couple of billion to them when they have trillions?
We need to continue exposing DM, to be sure. But we cannot expect any help from the US government, or devote a lot of resources to trying to get it. We also must not ARC break about their refusal to help us, or react by going to war against them over it.
What would Sun Tzu do if his enemy acquired a much stronger ally? He certainly wouldn’t dive headlong into an attack on that ally.
We need to pick our battles carefully. If any of us can find a way to get good people in the government to help with shit-canning DM, that would be wonderful. But if higher-ups continue to nix that, we need to find another way to end DM’s reign.
If we put our attention on stops, we’ll get stops. If we “key the purpose, the stops will blow.” I’m not saying we should drop the petition issue. Not at all. It’s useful anit-DM PR even if the government does nothing. But the most powerful thing we can do is get busy delivering Scientology.
Has every Independent Scientologist reading this blog gotten Standard Tech clean-up auditing on his or her experience in the Church? Has every trained auditor among us found a way to get back in the chair cleaning up others, and moving them up the Grade Chart? How many of us are actively working on training auditors?
We criticize DM for having lousy stats on Auditors, Clears, and OTs made, and rightfully so. But, how about our stats? Sure, some of us have started. But as a group we need to do a lot more. That’s where most of our attention should be. It’s already safe enough to be an Independent Scientology practitioner that we could 10X our delivery with no problem.
LRH’s original strategy for the Guardian’s Office was that it was to keep outside distractions, including all government matters, off of orgs’ lines so production could continue. Well, Marty has become, in effect, Independent Scientology’s Guardian Worldwide. He has a few good people helping him with that work. The rest of us should let him, Mike, Graham, and the rest of their team handle the petition, while we pour the coals on production of Auditors, Clears, and OTs, starting in most cases with finally getting our own clean-up auditing so we don’t opp-term unwisely.
The Time Magazine Libel Suit and the massive Lawsuit Threats looming over the IRS of the ’90’s pretty much sent a clear Message that their Resources will be drained to the max if if they want to affront the Church. The FBI may well be in Possession of much Evidence but if the Justice Department feels they’ll blow half a Billion Dollars over the next 10 Years with endless Appeals and no 100% Guarantee of Conviction, they may think twice before flushing the Taxpayer’s Money down the Toilet.
Unfortunately Justice sometimes has a unbearable Price Tag.
I in no Way condone overlooking injustices, but then there may also be the legal Reality of the Situation.
GO Dr. Ron Paul
Wouldn’t it though? The thought makes me smile.
If you read how the petition starts; “Examine the Governments failure…”, you should be able to understand the defensive response, since the White House is over the government. It was a sort of make wrong. I dont know what sort of response folks were expecting. They were never going to say, OK, we failed, we will look into it, etc. I think the petition was in and of itself valuable. And it will continue to be of value. I signed it. But I cannot imagine a much different government response.
Ditto. If you get hung in the barriers, it’s possible to lose sight of the original purpose. Attention shifts to obstacles, rather than the aim. The aim is individuals achieving honest gains and Clear and OT.
Study, audit – every day move on something and Theta the Solver is rehabbed.
I just finished dinner, conversations and laughs with some Special People (SPs) and I feel good.
Isn’t it a matter of viewpoints and considerations?
I’m an Independent Scientologist and I’m proud.
Yeah. Remember Ralph Nader?
I sense it’s coming. On second thought, in fact it’s here. I look forward to lending a hand, physically. I mean it.
Theta out-trumps MEST. Always.
I, with the assistance of Mosey, have created more Clears and releases in the past year than probably any CLass V org in the Miscavige line up. What have you produced? To attempt to pigeon-hole me, or position me, with the Guardian’s Office did not go unnoticed. Nor did your attempt to make less of the hard work of a lot of good folks here to force the White House to abide by what they represented they were doing with the We The People petition process. Have a good day.
Any reasonable person would not condone free loaders who abuse the system. That is criminal and like all criminals, they should be punished. But there are millions of Americans who truely are in need, through no fault of their own but slammed into that position by corporate and government corruption,- both parties – and most especially by the right wing who suckles at the tits of the one percent. Supporting someone else by mandate, you don’t understand? Try driving your car without auto insurance – that’s mandated by the state, or would you drive,and have others drive the roadways , where each year 50,000 plus are killed, millions are injured, and there are billlions in property damage? And do you enjoy being financially ripped to shreds by health insurance permiums, where only the wealthy can pretty much take advantage of what is truely the best health care in the world? Politically, you “long for the days of the 1700’s”. Really? Do you mean here in America or the rest of the world? Of course you would be a member of the nobility all the countries of Europe, because if you weren’t,life would’nt be so “fresh and hopeful” — or in the American colonies – how many slaves would you have owned?; or would you have fled to Canada, like the Tories, because you never would have supported the Revolution, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. I understand your concerns, but I think a reading of history, both American and World would be very helpful. Also a lumping of the general “them” in opposition to you, gets you dangerously close to the attitude that is pervasive in Miscavige’s Church, as well as the extreme Right Wing’s denigration of anyone who doesn’t follow in lockstep with their elitist fascist ideology. Sorry, but when you “talk politcal” you’re going to get feedback.
The comment by Joy Graysen was written by Michael Fairman from Joy’s computer
My response to the email:
“Dear President Obama,
I appreciate that the subject matter of this petition is not suitable for public response. However, if you had any integrity, you would have advised the petitioners that the subject of the petition had been, or is being, looked into.
Grace and peace,
(my real name)
Agreed. The response is no surprise. it’s what they were always going to say. However, they could have added that they were looking into the subject of the petition. (See my response to the Whitehouse below.)
An emailed reply to the Whitehouse email elicits a response to the effect that your email is unlikely to be looked at. They send you here:
I made one change to my email. Instead of saying “if you had any integrity”, I wrote “if the process had any integrity”.
There’s a box to check if you want a reply. 🙂
Yeah pretty disappointing but then I’m pretty disappointed in President Obama (and I was a huge fan of his)…just got off the phone with a bot from the CO$. Victor started the conversation and politely indicated she was part of a cult. She apparently didn’t understand him so he turned her over to me. After I indicated multiple times that she is part of a cult, that we do not want to be involved with the church after wasting 25 years of our lives working out guts out for the church and that if she needs a place to escape we would be happy to take her in until she could get of her feet, she still wanted to argue with me. I finally told her I was probably labelled an SP and she declared she should not be talking to me. I told her I was happy to speak with her, that I am quite sure I am not an SP just not part of the cult anymore. Anyways, it was terribly sad and the only good news is she said she would take our names off the mailing list and our phone number off their callin list. I thanked her profusely (but I’m not holding my breath!).
Just SOOO glad we’re out of that scene.
I’m with you. Anyone who has delivered over 4,000 babies can’t be a bad guy. And you’re right, he makes a lot of sense and is a strong believer in true Laissez-faire Freemarket Capitalism – not the travesty of justice known as Corporate Capitalism that we have today.
I pretty much agree with you on all that.
(bit of a rant coming)
We know that this can be all carried on the backs of a very few, as is the way of things generally, but if more people found the courage “to overcome the RISK… of walking up and standing that line… and saying … No More.”.. this could all happen A LOT SOONER.
This isn’t “somebody else’s problem” if it impacts your Dynamics IN ANY WAY.
I tend to follow the rather hard line of, ” those who are not willing to stand up and DO something to preserve and forward their freedom, do not actually deserve it.” In actual fact, I believe that those who do not actively pursue freedom will tend to squander ANY freedom that they may have somehow accidentally acquired.
If you are not ACTIVELY creating your Dynanmics the way you want them to be, do not be disappointed that they do not turn out to your satisfaction.
Following the 2008 near-collapse of the entire global economy, the feds did NOTHING to prosecute those responsible. At least in the ’80’s Charles Keating went to jail for the Savings and Loan fiasco.
(For an excellent, well-researched, and gut-wrenching explanation of what happened, check out Charles Ferguson’s Oscar winning documentary “Inside Job.”)
Yet in 2010 all 50 State Attorney Generals combined efforts to investigate the mortgage lending industry, particularly focusing on the 5 main banks responsible for the bulk of out-exchange and criminal mortgage lending practices.
Whether they are ultimately successful or not in extracting a settlement from the banks in question remains to be seen, but the point being it is the STATE level government which is calling the banking industry to task.
It would take a MUCH smarter legal mind than mine to consider all the ins and outs, but perhaps the ultimate plan of attack will be addressed at the state level, if enough state AGs can be brought on board in recognizing the level of criminal activity and human rights abuses being perpetrated by the Cof$.
I assure you I didn’t mean what I said the way it came across to you. Please allow me to clarify.
I know you have been enormously productive as an auditor in the last couple of years. I was refering to others. There are hundreds of trained auditors in the Independent field, and only a small fraction of them are listed on Free and Able as offering their services to others. I’d like to see more of them auditing, and believe that at some point they must for us to be successful.
I’ll also freely confess to not currently auditing others myself. I don’t feel good about that at all, but I’m in the middle of business affairs I can’t walk away from. I know that many other trained auditors are also pinned down by life circumstances. I meant no disrespect or invalidation of any of them, let alone auditors who ARE auditing. I only meant to encourage those of us who aren’t auditing to do our best to move in the direction of actually doing Scientology in addition to talking about it. I include myself in that group.
I also meant to encourage everyone who hasn’t gotten a good Standard Tech auditing clean-up to go to one of the currently producing auditors such as yourself, and get some charge off the case. I’ve talked to a lot of Independents in the last few months, and MOST of them haven’t gotten any auditing from their fellow Independents, and are sitting in unnecessary BPC as a result. I think this BPC is one of the major reasons for the fragmentation of the Independent community into what amounts to political factions and technical sects. There’s a lot of “reality is proportional to charge off the case” going on. I think if more Independent Scientologists got clean-up auditing and got back on the Standard Tech bridge, there would be more agreement and power in the movement you, Mike, Steve, et al have so skillfully catalyzed.
Regarding my saying that you have become, in effect, Independent Scientology’s Guardian Worldwide, I meant that as a compliment. I was in Scientology in the 60’s. The ORIGINAL Guardian’s Office, run by Mary Sue, was directed outward against real SPs only, and was a good thing. Later, under Jane Kember, it drifted downscale in the same way the Sea Org did, and became something entirely different. I would never associate you with that later GO. I regard you as a true hero in the spirit of LRH’s original intention for the GO before it was corrupted.
Regarding the petition, I definitely was not trying to make less of the hard work of the people who got the 5000 signatures, or the ones who are now working on handling the White House’s refusal to comment. By all means, go for it. If your political skills are such that you can get the Obama administration to do the right thing, that will be wonderful. I wasn’t trying to discourage effective action at all.
It’s just that a lot of people were expressing upset over the letters they got, and I saw that upset as a potential problem. Going into a fight, a little upset can help one focus. But too much upset shuts down analytical thought and renders one’s black belt skills useless. I stated what I believe to be the situation with the Obama administration, and tried to promote doing what has to be done with a cool head. That’s all.
I do believe that if the government is handled just right, they will throw DM under the bus. I just don’t think their motivation for doing that will be that they actually give a damn about his crimes. They’ll sacrifice him to protect themselves only, because at the top, wherever that actually is, they’re just like him. That’s my opinion.
Exactly. There’s no forged email I’m afraid.
I don’t know Kassapa, and I don’t plan to get embroiled in a back-and-forth argument here, but I think he/she meant the comment as a compliment to you. Not everyone thinks the Guardian’s Office was the big bad witches den that DM painted it to be, including probably a couple thousand of us who worked within doing our best to follow the policies that LRH wrote and on the purpose line that LRH set out for the GO. The fact that a cadre of people went off the rails, short-circuiting policy and committing overts in trying to discover and handle the “who’s” and the attackers does not mean everyone in the GO was bad or that LRH’s policies for it were wrong. The real overt was that the policies – like squirreled auditing tech which does egregious harm – were NOT FOLLOWED AND WERE VIOLATED, causing harm.
I outlined some of my position in three comments and conversations on the Black Propaganda discussion on the Scientology-cult website if anyone is interested.
The short form: Two key LRH statements in the Black Propaganda issue (now OSA NW Order 15) are:
1. “Our propaganda is dirty BUT IT IS NOT BLACK BECAUSE IT IS TRUE. Black propaganda is essentially false.”
2. “We won’t be running a black campaign as we deal in truth.”
The rest of the policy is pretty clear that exposes of crimes are to be based in truth. Yep, persons with blood on their hands from lobotomies deserve to be exposed (IMO – even if exposure is ILLEGAL because it violates patient secrecy). However, it is a violation to go after wrong targets or make up lies or spread false reports. “We deal in truth.”
And, just for the record, Michael Meisner, the “witness” who turned states evidence was up to his neck in responsibility for what went down. He wrote the CSW to get approval for the DC op which, when it failed, brought down the house . Then he ran to save his own hide instead of owning up to it. I’m not defending that mess, or any of the other overts committed in that scene 35 years ago, but it’s not black and white. To me, saying the the “GO” is bad is a generality, just as saying the “SO” was bad when DM and some cronies ordered human rights violations against you many others whose stories have been told here and elsewhere.
I saw a lot of good things done by GO members publicly and behind the scenes. I saw a lot of dedication and hard work.
Other than that, I think Kassapa had some good points in reminding all of us to keep our eye on the prize – not to dwell too much on stops – and cautioning all about getting into an op-term situation with the government.
Interesting post, or at least part of it … your second paragraph. I believe that you are headed in the direction of truth, but it goes deeper.
Following the raid in 1977, the Cof$ definitely would have gotten on the CIA’s radar screen bigtime, as they saw the extent of the infiltration against the govt. The CIA would have been confronted with choices, one of which would have been to co-opt the Cof$ for intel purposes. Why? The GO/OSA agents would come with the highest form of motivation, right up there with suicide bombers … religious zeal. Plus the confessional folders might provide useful intel as well. Therefore, the Cof$ may be, after a fashion, a part of the federal govt or at least a federal govt./intel asset. Meanwhile, if you understand that the US is headed in the direction of tyranny and that the govt. is doing everything in its power to covertly destroy the Bill of Rights culture or what is left of it … the final service that the Cof$ could perform as an asset for the govt. would be to go out with a “bang” of sorts … a Coolaid party or perhaps another form of mass murder, for the purpose of instigating the masses to clamour for some law restricting freedom of religion.
How do you hit back? I identify their key vulnerability is the tax system, because AS WRITTEN it favors the people and all that need be done is to hold their feet to the fire as far as the written law is concerned. The mechanism for making the vast majority of people liable for income tax is their participation in Social Security, which, according to law, is 100% voluntary and NOT REQUIRED to live OR WORK in the US. Corporate Amerika does the dirty work by forcing everyone to “voluntarily” use an SSN on the job where none is required by law. Stop using an SSN and you stop paying for your own enslavement. Thinkfree dot ca, davechampionshow dot com, famguardian dot org, originalintent dot org, christianliberty dot org, prisonplanet dot tv, infowars dot com, taxrevolt dot us.
Hi Marty, I was just talking to a friend last night about this subject. I’ve taken some time to look into what was occurring during the last Independent wave back in the early – mid 80’s. I’ve read many of the Reconnection newsletters from that time (found on Ralph Hilton’s blog). I’ve listen to David Mayo’s Sunday talks. Saw the AAC Video etc.. All very, very theta. A lot of the same ideas we are communicating about now. A lot of delivery happening. But, David was taken out and the AACs are no longer here. So, honestly, I may have been someone who’s viewpoint would normally be – let’s just out create the church and not worry about putting their ethics in. But the facts are that it didn’t work back then. So, if I ask what is different now? It’s what you and others are doing to expose the outpoints of DM and his church. And, while doing that you are continuing to move people up the bridge including repairing the out tech from the church.
By the way, received The Auditor magazine from ASHO. I believe there were a few more people completing BC levels then I’ve seen lately. But, 1 Clear! ONE.
By the way, isn’t the timing of the White House response interesting? The wait until after 6pm on a Friday, well after most news organizations shut down for the weekend (or at least many of their main reporters have gone home). Almost like they wanted to make sure that this response came during a time when most people wouldn’t be paying that much attention to it . . . nah, that couldn’t be, could it?
Shocked? Not. The Obama Admin is a criminal Org. Has been since day one and many people realized it However, the “Church” is toast. DM is, going to implode. People are streaming out of the church. Marty, Mike; you HAVE done well.
The Guardian’s Office is the bad seed that ultimately grew to destroy the church and LRH’s personal life. Read all about it this Spring.
To avoid expressing appropriate emotion, in this case upset, is escapism; and is about as unScientological as it can get. The Guardian’s Office was LRH’s biggest mistake; read all about it in context this Spring.
The Obama administration, as well as ANY other US administration, has, have, and will condone any action that brings money to the country.
If Jeffrey Dahmer was selling his human-skin jackets he would still be in business: the Milwaukee police department did not want to arrest a respectable businessmen, just because some bleeding naked homosexual with a hole drilled into the skull claimed Dahmer was a bad guy.
No wonder pissed off people crash planes onto business centers in your country. Methinks there was a subdle message in the 911 accident…
I admire and respect your efforts in getting the US administration to address and solve their own problems: I am not american, nor do I care what happens inside that territory, I am just very upset of what is coming out of that zoo you call a country, and I think I speak for everyone here when I say Americans can keep their own shit at home.
My message here is that if the US administration doesn’t want to address and solve their own issues, someone else will.
The Scientology Corporation and their tactics will be the largest PR nightmare of the US History.
I agree that avoiding the expression of appropriate emotion would be very unScientological. My concern was not that upset was expressed. It was that this particular upset, if allowed to grow by feeding on itself, could lead to mistakes in handling the actual situation. Whatever DM is as an adversary, the US government is potentially far greater. I’m fine with everyone expressing their upset, as long as cool heads prevail in the actual handling steps embarked on. And, for the record, I have no idea what those steps should be. That’s your bailiwick.
As for the Guardian’s Office being LRH’s biggest mistake, certainly it was part of the 60’s 3rd dynamic engram that also spawned the Sea Org. As I see it, both of these organizations had legitimate reasons for existing. The mistake was letting admin staff end up controlling tech staff. I include in that mistake allowing casey staff to get into positions in the GO where they dramatized and pushed it to excess.
LRH let tech take a back seat in the GO and SO, justified by the now thoroughly disproven idea that “staff have no case.” In the late 60’s, before the GO and SO had any substantial effect on local orgs, nearly all staff were on auditor training after their first few months, and were co-auditing. Then, gradually, admin was pushed more and more, until finally most staff hardly went to course, and when they did, they studied admin. Whatever else happened to ruin things, failure to keep tech in the forefront for everyone was the main WHY in my opinion.
Yes, it seems that “Unfortunately Justice sometimes has a unbearable Price Tag.”,…. but they didn’t seem to have too much problem with flushing THREE TRILLION DOLLARS down the toilet to initiate and then wage their own personal war in Iraq, a war that they cannot possibly win.
Oh… I’m sorry… There WERE winners… American business leaches probably pretty much took the bulk of it. Hurray for Democracy! Where anybody with the right connections into the Government can become stinking rich on the backs of the general population.
Perhaps it is not that “the Government” is concerned that “it may not win”.. It could simply be that they cannot figure out how to give massive kickbacks to their “friends” on this one.
Damn… Did I just go and get “all political like”.
Oh well, as has been said earlier… “gag me with a Mercedes”.
Quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson (1802) –
“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
The problem seems to be that our politicians have already sold out to the banks and corporations. See this link from the Independent newspaper (London): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/what-price-the-new-democracy-goldman-sachs-conquers-europe-6264091.html “The ascension of Mario Monti to the Italian prime ministership is remarkable for more reasons than it is possible to count. By replacing the scandal-surfing Silvio Berlusconi, Italy has dislodged the undislodgeable. By imposing rule by unelected technocrats, it has suspended the normal rules of democracy, and maybe democracy itself. And by putting a senior adviser at Goldman Sachs in charge of a Western nation, it has taken to new heights the political power of an investment bank that you might have thought was prohibitively politically toxic.
This is the most remarkable thing of all: a giant leap forward for, or perhaps even the successful culmination of, the Goldman Sachs Project
Tomorrow’s editorial in the St. Petersburg Times may be the perfect supporting vehicle for an email campaign directed at the IRS, the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee. It could be accompanied by a reference sheet of other related hyper-links and demand for immediate action by the IRS and committee hearings in the House and Senate. Any thoughts?
IRS fraud reporting:
House Ways & Means Oversight Subcommitee:
Senate Finance Committee:
It has been suggested that Freezoners and Independent Scientologists claim any auditing etc costs as tax deductions just as they would if they were still in the “church.” If the IRS did not offer similar treatment there would be Establishment Clause and Equal Protection issues. Of course, FLAG etc have 501 (c) (3) exemptions but the deduction is for religious training not charitable expenditures so that distinction may not prevail.It could be interesting.
I told you so. Only a resource based economy is the cure. Now you may listened to what I had to say.
But no you did not do so and I gave up. I find people have to learn the hard way. I am not likely to come back to check out this post as I k now what most of the FZ thinks about the RBE.
Money is what they like and I say as long as we got money no amount of ethics is going to fix the problems.
Carcha, “Defense” goes far beyond “defending” the USA. I would happily pay a substantial percentage of my income for social and humanitarian goals, but not for missiles used during the Gulf War which cost $1 million/$2 million each, fuel air bombs in Iraq, robot drone aircraft decimating villages in Pakistan and the like. I would favor being able to allocate what my tax dollars are used for, just as being able to choose what programs my United Way contributions go to. That to me, would be more “democratic”.
In other words, I agree “Defense” is needed, but I feel what we actually have is far too much tax money being spent on weapons that are actually used a tools of oppression in unnecessary “wars.”
Who to vote for? They are largely two sides of the same coin.
Valkov the Political Cynic speaks.
George, does the email actually say the Administration “refuses” to INVESTIGATE?
I thought it said the Administration refuses to COMMENT on the petition and the situation it is about.
Those are two very different statements.
I see this “petition” site as a tool set up for surveying the public and identifying their(our) buttons, what are the things that matter most to us, data for use in the coming re-election campaign.
As such, that does not make it a bad thing. It is a communication channel and as such it may help improve things for the 99%, if it helps the “powers that be” see the handwriting on the wall.
How much sincerity there is behind it is at this time unknown and remains to be seen.
I’d also like to point out that this email response was a “form letter”. The are other petitions concerning law enforcement and justice matters that received exactly the same response.
As such, I feel there are no conclusions that can be drawn from it, about Obama’s, or anyone else’s, position on the matter.