by Mike Rinder
Some of you may recall the Taiwan “Ideal Org” building, purchased by the IAS in 2005 accompanied by much fanfare and hoopla from POB himself about this being the first org in China. You may recall the CGI fly-through showing the grand lobby and the courserooms and auditing rooms. 100% smoke and mirrors.
Below are some shots taken within the last month of that building.
Not only is there still NO org, the building has sat empty since it was purchased 6 years ago. And every year since then the IAS has paid the taxes on the building because the Mission cannot afford to pay them. Does anyone think the money they give to the IAS is being used to pay taxes on empty buildings? Is it possible to even contemplate how much hard earned cash is flushed down the toilet in the name of POB having something to show at an event that maintains his pretense of “massive expansion”? This huge building (far larger than what could possible be viable) was bought when the market was high for an org that did not and still does not exist (and POB personally ordered that Kaohsuing Mission was NOT eligible to be turned into an org in spite of months of work by a lot of people under Guillaume Lesevre’s direction to try to make it happen) and 6 years later they have still not even started the renovations. It is NOT because there is a lack of available cash in the IAS.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Fraud indeed! This is not even something that can be blamed on the “SPs” no longer there, or the “lying apostates” that have been excommunicated.
Altho, I am sure somehow he will try.
I use to have a course room pretty well full of Tiawanese students in Aus in the late 80s early 90s and as people they are warmly impressive in their dedication to their study and application, and that’s over the languge difficulty! Before course, during lunch and after course they were there studying. They earned their sup’s attention.and it was a lot of fun – they love to win.
It saddens me greatly to see what DM has done in their country. The building looks more like a caner and is so big it’s rediculous.
Words fail me (unpublishable) to describe what should really be done to that guy.
Howard — Yes, very true. Miscavige also operates on this datum which is why you see “fly throughs” of new buildings that are done by computer. And these computer generated images (CGI) are getting so sophisticated that it is often had to distinguish reality from smoke. And POB exploits that to the max.
If he had to show actual photos of the org buildings — and NO photoshop — there would be a lot of other horror stories to witness: Kansas City, BattleCreek, Harare, Capetown, Pordenone, Sunderland, Birmingham, Auckland to rattle a few off the top of my head. Shown with great fanfare and deceptive CGI fly-throughs, they no doubt sit in the same state as this building today.
What a hoax.
In fact, if you live in a city that has an “Ideal Org” building that has not opened, why not drive by and take some shots.
David Miscavige , false report = doubt.
At least he moves into a higher condition for the moments he is on stage with the illusion.
Somewhere around mid-2000’s, some staff were briefed that ALL existing orgs would be ideal orgs by 2010 and they would be generating expansion at a pace which would result in opening one new (i.e. brand new, not new version of existing) org a week, and then one a day.
The unreality that permeates the Church of POB is truly mind-boggling.
The C of S could learn a lesson from Hellen Chen and Helmut Flasch:
sad, sad, sad…..the pictures say it all. To you who are still drinking the kool-aid, wake-up and look. I just cannot continue to believe that you who are still flowing power to this don’t have a moment where you wonder, WTF is really being done with my donation? Hell you would question an error on your bank statement or your phone bill, etc. Get your head out of your ass!
Me thinks DM thinks you guys worry too much about nothing. Heck, just send some RPF’rs over there and with a little spit and polish that thing will be looking good in no time at all…
Thank you for continuing to expose the IAS scam.
The 2 keynotes of Miscavige era.
ABUSE and SCAM.
The buzzword the Church uses on its promo is FREEDOM.
But once in, it is an increasing TRAP.
“Universal Rights” is touted and even DVDs are plugged around !
Universal Rights by an entity that obliterates all your rights as you get
sucked in deeper.
Try out your rights to even come and go freely from a “Sea Org Base”.
Try 24 hours in the RPF or sadistic RPF’s RPF to find out how kind,
benevolent and rewarding of Human Rights the “:Church ” is.
IAS scams are vital to expose. Good job Mike and Marty.
The truth continues to be revealed about DM, Inc.
Yet another reason to not support the IA”SS”.
Well done, Mike.
Damned! So why don’t we take our cameras, I-phones or whatever else can take pictures, go over to the next Idle Org and find out all about it. I think Marty and Mike will be happy to collect your shots and present it to the world. We should really stop this nonsense before even more people pay for this insanity.
If you build it, they won’t come.
The photos bring up a concept of rotting buildings, appropriate to POB’s Vulture Culture. It is in competition to the SP building, stagnating buildings bought by OPM (other people’s money) solely for the purposes of PR at the time and place event, then totally forgotten.
Perhaps the Taiwanese city, aside from taxes could have a daily fine for creating an eyesore as similar to Clearwater?
One reason that building is so big is that it was supposed to be not only the first org in Taiwan, but also the home of a newly-established CLO Asia. Of course since there is next to no Scientology in Asia, there is not much reason for a CLO.
Also New Haven. That building was purchased in 2003 I believe. And I don’t think they even have gotten the bucks to do the space planning.
It was in June 2005, at the MV “confidential” briefing for OTAsses. I was there and when he said that, everyone let out a big “ahhh.” Now it seems funny to me how we all gobbled that shit up.
I could have told anybody this and I am glad that somebody else is saying the same thing. DM and his cronies have a new tech “Real estate is the way to freedom”. It isn’t. One earthquake and it all goes away! 🙂
scamarama at its best
he plays the shell game well and what he winds up with are a bunch of empty buildings resembling a shell
abracadabra is DM’s trademark he is a true magician but a bad one at that except for the blind flock of sheep
such ashame DM will continue to make sure the blind leads the blind
hoax, scam, greed
Time magazine had it right in 1991: The Cult of Greed
HN — Yeah, the same “logic” he has used to buy three “AOs” that will be opened when all the orgs are “Ideal”? A silly looking castle in Africa — where Port Elizabeth and Pretoria havent had more than 5 staff in the last decade, let alone Harare and Bulawayo that maybe have one or two part-timers. And Canada has an “AO” and Kitchener, Edmonton and Calgary will be “Ideal” soon after the blizzard has died down in hell (what, FSO and AOLA can’t handle their overwhelming volume of TRs and Objectives public?). And there is an “AO” in Mexico too I think — and they have 10 “orgs” that even the people in management cannot remember the names of!
These buildings are bought ONLY because Monique hammers on him that he HAS to spend money — he doesnt want to spend it on education/WTH etc because there is no “return” on it. Pay the staff? Do a scholarship program for free auditor training?
He is a flim flam man.
Well said Carol.
I think of the parishioners who have declared bankruptcy or continue to struggle every day on their finances because they were coerced into giving donations they could not afford…for what?… an empty building that still requires taxes to be paid so it can continue to sit there and collect cobwebs. So wrong!!
same with the japanese at greek st
KADs reading this: you don’t have to do anything heroic, just stop supporting DM’s insane reqime. Quietly withdraw your support and DM will collapse. He only continues because of the support you give him. No support = no madman ruining Scientology for you and for everyone. You can keep your friends and family and your job at an Scn company. Just withdraw your support. Your excuses are valid (no money, drowning in debt, no time, etc.). Don’t be shy about making up stories to get a reg off your back because they are doing the same thing to you to shame you into donating more money. Again, no heroic overt disconnection is needed that will turn your life upside down (although the return of your integrity and self-esteem will feel wonderful). Simply withdraw your support of this madman.
miscaviage is a sick freak. He puts others through untold misery to satisfy his oafish ego. Sick!!!
Happening everywhere. I like to keep track of my local “Ideal” Org in Portland. I wrote this report almost exactly a year ago. Since then, nothing. Supposedly there was a mission up from CLO WUS headed by Mark Pisani to renovate the place, but a year later, there are no visible signs of life.
Fantastic News! So glad you provided this link!
These buildings are bought ONLY because Monique hammers on him that he HAS to spend money….
Note to Monique: You want to get rid of some of that money? Tell the dwarf to start sending IAS REFUNDS to those of us who’ve asked. Do something worthwhile; hammer that idea into the dwarf’s little head.
ps. Empty buildings deteriorate rapidly. If that building was purchased 6 years ago and has sat empty all this time, I guarantee you it’s become a stinking rat hole. No doubt about it. Next the little grifter will be demanding a zillion dollars to gut it and start over.
WOW, this is really sick, such waste! I know several Taiwanese people who donated heavily to this project. One thing I do know is that they all have many friends back home and I am sure that they have followed up on this project. What a betrayal. Worst part is that they all were relatively new to Scientology, actively on service and doing courses while they were waiting to go in session. They were huge disseminators. This would have been an easy boom if the church wasn’t corrupted. Hearing this type of stuff really makes me mad that so many koolaid drinkers won’t look and as a result are just enabling this criminality. WAKE UP, PEOPLE!!!!
He is in a lower condition of “no condition” (LRH has assigned it a few times). Dave should be assigned to the RPFs, RPFs, RPF (LRH did this to Billy Kahn once), then offloaded St. Helena as Napolean was. This is disgusting. We should get a volunteer to take some drive by shots of Inglewood, CA “Ideal Central Org” in a month or so, when the staff get re-assigned to the next Idle Morgue.
Well put Dan, that is the first gradient. Dave’s Cash cow flow (IAS appears to be the main source now), needs to ceased. Listen up you IAS Donor fools.
Wow! That’s amazing and very, very good news. WELL DONE to you GUYS!!!!!
Fields of nightmares!
How many people need to become financially devastated, how many mothers need to loose their children to “disconnection”? How many people need to DIE because they did NOT seek medical treatment when they should have?
How many individuals need to sacrifice their integrity for this freaking psychopath before they realize it is all SMOKE AND MIRRORS? There is NO expansion, there is only contraction in Corporate Scientology.
I challenge any current Corporate Scientology Scientologist to tell me, when was the last time you felt truly proud of your “church”? When was the last time you honestly believed that the continued financial raping of parishioners, and disconnection of families was the right thing to do?
There is a reason why you are hesitant to take your children, your friends and your family members into your local org. The reason is that you know that this dog and pony show is just that. You don’t want those you care about to experience crush regging, or extreme recruiting. You are embarrassed by the actions of your “church”.
What the hell are you waiting for? Walk out the door and step into freedom from all of this insanity. Life is to short to spend it in a cult.
A Miscavige Ideal Org is an Idle Morgue. And yet the Taiwanese people continue to get scammed by the desperate, pathetic fundraising of the C of $ thinking they are supporting something vital:
There is even more “fun”:
Another in a very long list of utterly wasteful extravagances, to the tune of many, many millions of dollars, all evidence of heavy crimes of course. Though this example of waste is bad enough, I shudder to think of the underlying crimes it signifies.
Fantastic! Thanks for the link, Scott. I was just wondering this morning how they were doing and ….it’s great.
Maybe the most upstat indy academy?
Well stated Natalie. that is the acid test. Kind of the key question… “Would you want your family and loved ones to experience what you do?”.
One of the things that leaves me speechless is the utter disregard for the Data Series and basic policy regarding org programming.
One “ideal” org is set up as a “pilot project.” It gets funded off normal production lines.
Data analysis a year later shows it is an utter failure and the project is then abandoned in favor of standard LRH policy on the expansion of an area or an org.
There is not one single executive in any senior management position who knows or cares to know or applies any LRH tech or policy to the question of expansion and the results are a 50% decrease in membership over the past ten years. The results are negative PR stats straight up and verticle (yet carefully hidden to protect miscavige).
Is it an ecclesiastical crime or is it a legal crime that CST has not wrested the trademarks and copyrights from these squirrels?
Meant to add the quote:
“There are three things which, when observed, can be very revealing.
1. Overspending, waste and extravagance. 2. Overt products. 3. Nonproduction.
One or the other of these will lead frequently to discovering the rest being present as well … When those three things are present, they are covering up a serious out-ethics scene … you will be startled what you sometimes find. Theft. Embezzlement. Lies.” L Ron Hubbard HCO PL 5 Feb 1982, OUT-ETHICS SYMPTOMS.
Harvey Jacques is a bully!
yeah, I remember that.
The dwarf is clearly on “WASTE” on the Havingness Scale.
If you buy it, it is mine…
Do you now understand why governments are reluctant to do anything against the Cult? It is very efficiently well destroying itself. If it is working, do not try to repair it.
Just remembered a dream when still under the radar :
“I was sitting with DM (heaven forbid!) at a coffee place at an outside table. A stocky farmer’s woman silently approached DM with a bowl in her hand. Standing in front of him she simply threw the content (lentil soup or whatever) in his face and left. He looked quite introverted”
I clearly felt that that should have been me throwing something in his face.
I got the drift and came out in the open.
Right out of TWTH!
jethro, this just shows me that there is absolutely no regard or respect at all for any of these people. Harvey is a complete moron to have even contributed to this disaster.This is just wrong.
Yes, some staff were later shown that briefing. When I first heard it, it was unreal to me. It is even less real now.
They never sold the Steven’s bldg (the 1st ideal org that was purchased in Portland). They are now trying desperately to lease the building out, to recoup some monthly income. They got Finnegan’s toy store which is a long standing toy store that was by the Central library to rent out the space at a very discounted price on the street level. Their second building is also still sitting there, with nothing going on. The rumor is that they did some squirelly deal on contract with the owners of the building, put down a hefty down payment for a future promise to buy. Maybe by now they have got all of the funds or the IAS did fork over the cash. Either way just a bad business deal for the COS and the Int landlords office.
What’s this IAS money used towards “Ideal Orgs”?
or perhaps it has been going on since 1988.
I can second that one. The New Haven, CT building has been sitting empty for 8 years.
I’ve been keeping track of some of the CoS stats from the mags I get. From “The Auditor” magazines for 2011, ASHO made 1 Clear in the last two months (14 for the year 2011). Helen Chen’s Academy made 8 Clears in the last two months.
ASHO made 3 interned Class IV auditors in 2011. Helen Chen’s Academy tied with 3 interned Class IV auditors in 2011 as well.
Overall, it appears that Helen Chen’s Academy is outproducing ASHO, based on CoS’ own published stats.
Yes. We are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. LOVE the idea of commenters here posting photos of local idle orgs. I can see the end of corporate Miscaviageism nearing.
Boy, you nailed it! Waste indeed! Instantly I can think of 10 things I could do with the place to make real change. Wishful thinking.
Is it that bad … ?
Your dream may not mean anything to anyone and can easily leave a person nonplussed.
But it reminds me of equally silly and unimportant things being told by my parents when they tried to explain to me what life was in Japanese concentration camps.
Simple things. No one could understand.
Is it that bad … ?
Oh man, that brings me tears of JOY! Love Love Love it!
MR: If POB understood that Scientology is expanded from the agreement and effort of thetans who are moving up the scale, instead of buildings and the suppression thetans who wish to expand Scientology, then maybe someday he would have had a reason for these new AOs and CLOs. Sadly due to his own actions, they will not be needed.
And for what? Where’d the money go?
Just recalling this I had the idea that this org was actually done. I don’t keep up with actual dones as I’m sure many dont.
This was one of the early Ideal Orgs and the idea I had from the event is that it was all but done. Hmm.
Well, on a similar note, Phoenix got their building. So I guess after they raise some more millions to renovate this huge building in an area with no body traffic they can move from their already too big building downtown by the University, pro basketball, hockey and baseball stadiums, in the art district (once a month the streets are closed and literally thousands of colledge age people walk by the org and through the parking lot) within walking distance of more body traffic than you could ever need at all times of the day and night, walking distance from the central bus station and light rail.
The only thing you can say about the new building is that it is walking distance from LRH’s Camelback Mtn house. Or it’s in a nice area, or “off the beaten path”. It will be nice getting away from all that noise of all those college kids and artsy types
What do Taiwanese OT’s think about donating all their money to an empty building?
Who is this fat, florid sack of shit?
Not only is he extorting another eight grand from the roomful of misguided dupes, he is doing so with a disgusting show of smugness.
He looks like he has nothing but contempt for these people and can’t wait to get out of there as soon they hurry up and give him enough money.
The blind rat leading the blind rats.
One of the more difficult concepts to grasp, because it ceases communication at a sane level is that Miscavige is the perfect example of an SP. He does not and never will concieve he has made an error. The basic motivation of an SP is the destruction of others. Expecting him to understand something is folly.
Those that wish to convert him to sanity may as well try to hold back the tide with their bare hands. At least one sane point concerning him and others of his kind is that they fit the defintion of a true enemy.
In this world or the next, failing to eliminate such an enemy has and will always turn around and bite you. Failing to act early enough against such personalities is why situations like this exist.
The basic error concerning him is believing that something will change his mind. As the hangman’s noose snaps his neck he’ll still believe he is right.
There is no substite for being hatted.
As per Advanced Procedures & Axioms – sympathy must be wholy erased from the case.
I freed 2 more ex-kool aid drinkers today!!!!
I am still wearing my FSM hat and making sure they are moving up the bridge way faster and 100% standard than when they were inside the cult. Freedom is priceless!
Can anyone create a blog under “Ideal Orgs around the world” or something like this and post all the photos of each of the “dead Idle org” around the world? I am willing to take photos of our existing org as well as the new building which has been sitting there for over 6 years.
Once this is created, then we can e-mail it to all the Kool aid drinkers so they know what is truly going on behind the scene.
I’m sure that the failure of all these expensive buildings that just sit for years until they eventually get renovated, and then continue to sit virtually empty once done is all being blamed now on Laurence Guenot (priorly Barram, Stumbke and possibly now Wright) and Bob Wright who until a few months ago were the Senior Designer International Reserves Office (IRO) and the Senior Construction Manager IRO.
I know these two really well and they busted their asses for nearly a decade doing DM’s bidding running the location, purchase, design and renovations of every “Ideal” org building internationally. They travelled the world weekly, working typical 16 hour days 7 days a week.
They are the ones who located, hired and ran Staubach, an international real estate firm, to locate and aid in the purchase of most of the buildings. They also employed Gensler, a global architectural and design company to do all the construction documents for all the buildings.
This was a HUGE operation and the driving force behind this international grab of millions of dollars of real estate.
But, as Marty covered in his blog a while ago, these two are now out of the Sea Org and living together in Clearwater. And they are not talking, of course.
I imagine they couldn’t help but see the ridiculousness of their efforts and decided to get out of the game. But their own responsibility in the sham and weakness shows in the fact that they are paid off and trying to stay in the good graces of the Church and DM.
Knowing DM, he probably has some real nasty names that he now refers to them as. And he is blaming the failures of his monumental real estate program on them.
And also blaming Angie Blankenship (also now out of the Sea Org and paid to shut up) who he had posted as WDC Ideal Orgs. she was the one supposed to man up these places and get them operating.
I guess he is now using Molly Hoertling (she was CO CMO PAC, last I knew) and Alan Nebeker (BPI Programs Ops?) as his most recent “ace” team.
A Google search now finds Molly listed as Executive Vice President of Project Management for the Church of Scientology, and Alan is on LinkedIn as Senior Project Manager.
How long until they get fed up or get taken out?
The following represents a metaphorical question for POB:
It’s Harvey Jacques, “Captain” FSO. Your analysis of him is pretty accurate. He cares not a jot for the souls he is detroying. He’s basically a tacky crush-sell salesman, and therefore a perfect posting by DM (I have no doubt whatsoever his posting was approved by, if not ordered by DM).
I had a personal taste of how much he cares for the people in front of him when as chief registrar in 2001 one of his juniors was seeing me on a routing out routing form. The junior was trying to tell me that the 50 hours I had illegally had debited from my account for “not-auditing-you” sec checking was for my own benefit, and what I really needed to do was find roughly another $100,000 for the bridge to OTV. I explained in case he didn’t know that I had tried that and it hadn’t worked as I was already $10,000 worse off and got nowhere. Harvey was hovering around the reg area so the junior turns to him and asks what he should do? Without looking at me Harvey simply says “has this guy got any money or not? No? then why are you wasting my time?” You can see even from these short clips that this guy knows nothing about ARC, comon decency or even manners. I suspect basically just like DM he secretly hates people. He deserves everything thats coming to him.
Does the cult of greed charge the same prices in these remote places for their services? Compared to one regular intensive in the US, what’s the cost in Taiwan or some remote org in Africa or South America?
But he loves them all !!
Ah-h! Thanks JB! A whiff of painfully familiar poisonous Int Base atmosphere. How could we tolerate this bullshit for so long? What about hundreds of our friends still suffocating there? DM managed to hijack an entire world religion with all the people in it. Barney Madoff with his 150-year jail term is really just a kid playing in a sandbox by comparison.
Yes sherb, he is what you say he is and he will do what you say he will do. But you seem to be saying that you feel that there is absolutely no hope for him at all EVER… well this I do not agree with. As a matter of fact we all had better hope that that is not the case.
The only truly “safe” handling for any SP, or any aberrated being, is to gradiently return them to full self determinism. We have the technology to do this. We have people who are proficient in that technology.
Does David Miscavige need to be “restrained” from freely harming us, our friends and families, and others? YES, that would be a very good start.
Should we wish him dead or more “disabled”? I think that is a very short term and careless “solution”, because all it would accomplish is that he would move into a new lifetime(s) to wreak more havoc and destruction on others into the future.
Can we MAKE him “change his spots” with force? Of course not. That is definitely not what it takes to make a being sane.
Can we “keep the door open, if only a crack”, and make sure that the appropriate help is available for when it is needed? Yes, I believe we can.
Are we pan-determined enough to bring this “situation” through to it’s “optimum solution”, a “well and sane human being”? I sure hope so. Our own futures will be shaped to some degree by how we handle this.
It is ironic that we will have to prevent him from destroying the very “technologies” that are the only things that could ever truly save him, and that the beings that he is so happily attempting to destroy are the only ones who will eventually care enough to apply those technologies and reverse his downward spiral.
If we apply the correct Ethics, Tech, and Admin, at the correct gradients, even David Miscavige has a chance of “moving on up a little higher”.
I wouldn’t hold my breath on this one, but at least let’s “solve it with Scientology”.
I don’t know the answer to your questions about those specific locations but I do know one example of a difference in the fees from one location to another.
The fees in Mexico are (or at least were, about 5 years ago) much lower than the fees in the US, or more specifically, in Chicago.
I know of one person who lived in Chicago but bought a lot of auditing at a Mexican org and they had auditors who speak English. She went and got her lower Bridge there and paid much less for it than she would have paid in Chicago.
There were other examples of this kind of thing happening until this practice was banned by management. So now someone is allowed go to another country where the economy is different in order to pay less for their auditing.
Correction: “So now someone is NOT allowed to go to another country….”
The sheer control mechanism to ban a person from trying to save some extra money is mindblowing. There really is no freedom under those rules and certainly not a game anymore.
Oh yes the technology can salavage even Miscavige. However, imho he certainly hasn’t earnt any priority above any other being on this planet to be assisted. Maybe when we have enough auditors that PCs are scare we’ll pick him up and have some sort of raffle to see who can have a go at cracking his case.
In the grand scale of ethics & justice in the PT circumstances I believe we need space. I give an SP like him short shrift.
I see where you are comig from and your compassion and tech understanding is commendable but the soldier in me has certain guidelines of acceptable behaviour. Win the battle first, then pick up the pieces. There’s a lot at stake here.
Brilliant exposé, Mike. Great comments from everyone.
Meanwhile, inside the church, the remaining staff and public continue being degraded with miscavige’s false creed of hope over expectation. The show’s up, and it’s just a matter of time before the audience wakes up and files out.
Yes, gotta say I have no disagreements with you on that viewpoint, and the soldier in you is certainly welcome in this battle. As you say, I was speaking in “the grand scale of ethics and justice”
>>> “has this guy got any money or not? No? then why are you wasting my time?”
I’ve run into the “Free Service Equals Free Fall” policy as well. A lot of staff don’t care about you if you don’t have any money. Not like a real church that helps people in a time of need.
Yay, great news TRUTH!
That’s a great idea, TRUTH. For now, you can use freeheber.com. Email to: firstname.lastname@example.org to have a section of that wiki created for Idle Orgs … or if you’re familiar with wikis, you can just create one yourself.
Then we can promote that section here for others to use as well.
I know someone too, who about 8-10 years ago, went from a US org to a Mexican org in order to pay less for their lower Bridge. There was sort of an air of secrecy about it, since they knew that getting the lower bridge less expensively was somehow an overt. I’m not surprised that it’s now banned. Could it be any more obvious that the goal is not to clear people, but simply to extract as much of their money as possible?
You and Mosey are doing a GREAT job, and it is hard to believe that just two people could accomplish as much as you do. The reason that the official church cannot do as much as you are able to do with just two people is that it now specializes in destructive, false products, engages in lies and deceit, and acts generally like a suppressive group, reflecting the attitudes and actions of the insane “COB.” There is really no fair comparison between you and them because you are acting to do good, and free people up and they are acting to get as much money as possible for David Miscavige by utilizing the good of Scientology to create duped willing robots and vassals.
‘It is NOT because there is a lack of available cash in the IAS.”
Mike that fills me with joy
Demand your money back from IAS
it’s the right (theta/I am such a smuck:grinn) thing to do
Anonkat aka Kittyktspanker