To Those Who Fly Under the Radar…

As brilliant as Debbie Cook was as a corporate Scientology executive, she was and is just as naïve about the workings of the outside world and particularly how David Miscavige’s Office of Special Affairs (OSA, corporate Scientology’s propaganda and dirty tricks branch) works within it.

Unfortunately, there has for decades been a “Peter Principle” at work within corporate Scientology.   It goes something like this.  To the degree that one is willing to set aside logic, compassion, and understanding to drive home “command intention” to compliance is the degree to which one rises.  Thought-stopping supreme is the greatest asset for rising in the corporate Scientology ranks.

This is not a criticism of Debbie Cook.  It is fact that I fully acknowledge applied to me too.   However, I had the fortune, or misfortune, of dealing with the outside world throughout my corporate Scientology career, and specifically with the apparatus used by corporate Scientology to deal with the outside world.  I learned well that one does not and cannot approach David Miscavige in a gray-area fashion.  He only sees black and white, positive and negative, good and evil.  It is purely a God vs. the Devil world to David Miscavige and corporate Scientology.  Gray areas and nuances do not exist to them.  That is why after many months of soul searching before deciding to make myself known on the outside I decided to choose the only entrance to the road to truth, honesty.   It is the only antidote to the poison that is sure to rain upon anyone stepping out of line of the corporations.   And, it has served us well.

Despite warnings, Debbie has tried to approach dealing with David Miscavige in a half-pregnant fashion.  In this case, it was by the perpetuation of half-truths. Those are quite evident in the only public action she took, nearly three weeks ago, and which I noted in my January 1st 2012 post analyzing her mass email.   As accurately predicted, Miscavige had OSA drop virtually everything and scramble to put Debbie in a box.   Every person that contacted her since her email has been identified and contacted and handled by the corporate church  – one way or the other.  Because Debbie has attempted to perpetuate the fiction that she is not in communication with anyone not in good standing, and that all that is amiss is a euphemistic reality that there are some “policy violations” afoot, and she has been careful not to communicate anything beyond the generic “just follow policy” plea, those who stuck their necks out are left sitting in the middle of the battle field being slaughtered by corporate Scientology canons.

Though only a few with sufficient experience with OSA will fully appreciate this – such as Mike, Haydn, Steve Hall – probably the biggest reason we have David Miscavige exactly where we want him is because of his inability to successfully infiltrate me  and my close friends with intel agents.

Debbie has no background or hatting on how to distinguish between friend and foe.  In fact, I have personal knowledge that she has befriended the most treacherous foes (that is, card-carrying agents of OSA).  OSA has access to every communication to and from Debbie since her 1 January email.   She is stuck in a tar pit where more “helping hands” than not are illusions created by OSA.  OSA has access to, and is reporting directly to David Miscavige, every thought she harbors about the entire matter, right on down to her vacillating on where to go, what to do, and her innermost fears. She is even being influenced by advice that does not appear to be, but most certainly is, coming from the twisted, manipulating mind of David Miscavige.

If you are under the radar or otherwise quietly sitting on the fence,  and you have good reason to be, the most dangerous thing you can possibly do is to contact Debbie Cook or to express any hint of agreement with her email.   You will be left high and dry, intimidated back into the pen (at great expense to yourself) or monitored closely for the rest of your corporate Scientology connection.  If you were inspired to take a stand by Debbie’s 1 January email, the only place to take a stand with some level of security is with Independent Scientologists.

What I have written here is consistent with what I have previously written about Debbie since 1 January. The power of her email was that it would make people think who might otherwise never have had seeds planted inspiring thought.  It has planted seeds.  For that we thank Debbie. But, make no mistake, those seeds and subsequent sprouts will be protected from the varmints by one sector and one sector alone – the Independent Scientologists.  Dozens of people who did start thinking, looking and inquiring have connected up with Independent Scientologists and have continued their educations and awakenings.  Thanks to those Independents who remailed Debbie’s email to those in “good standing” and followed up with them.  The way they needed to be followed up with, more truth.

At the moment, the odds are in favor of Debbie being bought off or quietly slinking into oblivion continuing to protect David Miscavige from exposure of the truth she witnessed, the truth that corroborates and expands and brings closer to present time everything  a lot of brave folks have brought to light from The Truth Rundown forward.  Truth is the only route to follow up with on those who have contacted her – all Scientology policy arguments having been trumped by the corporate church’s hold on its flock.

I still hold out hope that Debbie will buck the odds and make a clean breast of it.  Her only hope for survival is choosing truth over compromise, something quite confrontable and doable thanks to the sacrifices of Independent Scientologists over the past three years.

Until she does, those who fly under the radar or sit quietly on the fence are advised to keep their distance.  If you are inclined to take a stand, then contact those who will unequivocally, and competently, have your back – Independent Scientologists.

495 responses to “To Those Who Fly Under the Radar…

  1. “If you are under the radar or otherwise quietly sitting on the fence, and you have good reason to be, the most dangerous thing you can possibly do is to contact Debbie Cook or to express any hint of agreement with her email.”

    Can someone give a GOOD reason to be under the radar or quietly sitting on the fence?

  2. Thank you Marty for your honesty and forthrightness.

  3. martyrathbun09

    Roberto, there are some people who have contributed greatly to the cause by remaining so, causatively, for varying lengths of time

  4. Marty,
    Thanks for the update and caveat to those in Stealth mode. This method of flying under the radar just really seems to be another exercise in complexity and confronting to just simple honesty and truth. Perhaps another evaluation is needed to get the scene closer to ideal and Independence is the handling?

  5. martyrathbun09

    I reckon you speak sooth Sinar.

  6. Thank you, Marty, for the perspective. I would like to note that as a true auditor you grant beingness to as many people as you can possibly stand, including those who fly under the radar or sit on the fence. To me it sounds very unhealthy in many ways to fly so low or sit on fences all the time. I understand that fence sitting is may be rooted in some real family situations and survival problems that take precedent over personal integrity, honesty and decency. I am not saying these things are simple. But I am saying that complexity is the degree of non-confront.

  7. Is there anything more true than this? I so appreciate your straight talk. You just lay it out exactly as it is, no bullshit and no pussy-footing around. Couldn’t agree more with this posting.

  8. You nailed it – perfectly.

    My exact feelings on Debbie, right down to the ground.

    In a prior post I wrote that Debbie was a modern day Sophie Scholl. I have to take that back. Sophie knew that reasoning with Hitler was not going to work, and she paid the ultimate price for her attempts to wake people up by trying to reason with the deluded masses under Hitler’s spell. Unless Debbie sees DM for what he is, she will pay a horrible price as well, and I applaud Marty for warning people against connecting up with her until she goes indy – which she must if she wants any more on-tech bridge in this life.

    Dealing with DM is a brimborion activity.

    DM= OTH8/Truth Concealed

  9. This is an excerpt from the LRH lecture “The Road to Truth” given on November 1, 1962 on the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course:

    “But any philosopher who singles himself out, or any engineer or any research person who singles himself out as the person who is going to be spotted as the person who is walking that track — now, that becomes very, very dangerous if this person doesn’t walk the whole track. That’s selectively dangerous. You share in some of that dangerousness.

    “It’s been so booby trapped that everything is very suspicious of anything being known, because people who have jumped up and said something is known, have very often lied. Now, if they have pretended to know more than other people on this subject, they have then committed overts. And if they have then turned up some little piece of bric-a-brac and have never gotten any further than that, but spread this bric-a-brac in all directions as “the true wisdom,” they have committed the overt of committing perhaps millions or billions of human beings to slavery. And I think that’s a considerable overt.

    “So there is no substitute for walking the track. You’ve got to go on down that road, particularly in a spot such as mine. You got to bring this off, man.

    “Now there has never been any doubt in my mind about bringing off this particular study. This is not something I have engaged in any doubts about. I’ve sometimes wondered whether or not the time factor wouldn’t upset things, because we also have another time factor involved over here called a “world situation” and I’ve needed a few clear years, and that has sometimes worried me a little bit. But the fait accompli was pretty easy to envision, because we’d already made the seven league boot strides necessary to put us way on down the track toward the end of track anyway.

    “We are essentially in the business of individuals and you must never forget that. On the road to truth, you are in the business of individuals. Just let me say en passant that most organizations, as they exist on Earth today, exist, in their first instant of genus, on the fact that they could not handle an individual, one individual. The failure to handle that one individual then brought about, not their demise, but their construction. All organizations on this planet today can be evolved from the first moment of failure to handle one individual. They couldn’t handle him, they couldn’t understand him, they couldn’t reach him, they couldn’t help him, and they couldn’t solve his problems, and so they set up an organization to do it. That organisation directly and immediately evolves from the failure to handle that individual. Now, this doesn’t tell you that this is true of all Third Dynamic activities. This only says ‘Earth,’ and this only says aberrated Third Dynamic activities.

    “In Scientology, we’re probably the only organization that has any capability at all of going in the direction of a Clear Third Dynamic, and we’re going in that direction. We use Overt/Withhold today to park somebody till we can handle him. We never forget we’re handling an individual. And I never forget I’m handling an individual. I’m not handling ‘people,’ ever. I’m handling you and you and you and you. Because you are truth. I don’t care what you look at as truth to begin with or what you will look at as truth at the end of the line; if there’s any truth to be found, you’re it. If there’s any truth to be known, it’ll be you who will know it. And beyond that and outside of it, there isn’t any truth. Do you see what I’m talking about as the road to truth?

    “Now, there is no truth in the mass of things; there is no truth in moral codes. Truth isn’t to be found there, only agreements. But in the final analysis, there is truth to be found and there is a road to truth. You have that within you and everytime you look at a human being you see it in him. And as you know what it is about, the more you know about it, the more you understand it, the less these factors will trouble you. But even the little fellow in the bakery shop who is doing nothing but wrap up bread has already started on the road to truth. And his only stupidity is he hasn’t got enough sense to keep going. So don’t worry about you being on the road to truth and that it’s a very adventurous line or me being on the road to truth; we’re almost there. Behind us lies the most thorny, messed up track you ever saw in your life. Wouldn’t navigate it again for a box of biscuits. But the truth of the matter is, well, we’re there.”

    L. Ron Hubbard

    Keep going Debbie. Keep going on-lines Scientologists. Keep going Independent Scientologists. Keep going departed Scientologists. Keep going concerned citizens. Keep going. Don’t stop on the road to truth. It only gets better, and freer, and it’s fucking beautiful.

  10. martyrathbun09

    Hey, thanks for the new word for me ‘brimborion.’

  11. I think that the follow-up actions of the OSA bots who are trying to sweep this under the rug will work a reality adjustment on those who are still operating in “don’t ask, don’t tell” mode regarding church criminality.

    I strongly feel that their heavy handed actions will strike fear into those who are stealthily backsliding and will prompt even more of them to question their allegiance to the cult mindset.

    It will be an interesting Spring with rain showers and fleeing parishioners.
    Stand by to assist refugees…

  12. Scientologists are pretty good in making cash and careers. They can’t be that clueless.

  13. “varmint” is a type of gun right? (What is it with Texans and guns?)

    Only one thing to add to this post, which I sincerely hope Debbie reads as it has very sage advice, which is to any fence sitters, especially UK – and I know there are many; there is NOTHING to fear stepping out into the sunlight. Staying “under the radar” only perpetuates your OWN suffering, and those you profess to love. The curtain is drawing on the malignant cult that David Miscavige has turned your Church into. It really is only a matter of time. The benefits from stepping out FAR out way any ramifications, if your personal integrity means anything. Just do it. It’s the best Rundown you’ll ever get, and it it’s free.

  14. Expelled4Life

    Thank you.

  15. Have not seen it in a long time but you folks remember the Nightline interview with David Miscavige? I will never forget what POB said to Ted Koppel about what Power really is. He said something like the way you are able to tell you have power is if people listen to you.

    Miscavige let you into his mind right there.

    Thus, the strategy is simple.

    Don’t listen to him.

    He says you are disconnected from your family? Tell him to fuck off. He says you can’t talk to your friends? Talk to them anyway. He says you are to do A to E? Laugh at him. To hell with what he wants.

  16. Ghost Of Pendragon

    Is corporate Scientology the cure. Is Indepedents the cure.
    Who do we stand with:

  17. Brilliant analysis, as usual Mr. Rathbun.

    The following is my opinion.

    A suggestion to those “under the radar” who are still somewhat on the fence. Please get out your ethics book and do your formulas up to doubt. Use the savescientology site, the friendsoflrh site,, the Saint Pete Times truth rundown and your own personal observation of what LRH said vs what david miscavige does, to determine whether you are “with LRH” and “with scientology” or you are “with david miscavige.” You simply cannot be both.

    Get your formula into a legible form and hide it in a safe or under your mattress. Keep it handy.

    Sometime within this calander year, you are definitely going to want to send it to your nearest “church.”

    david miscavige’s game is done. He should have received a committee of evidence nearly 20 years ago. He should have been found guilty and expelled from the sea org by the other members of the various boards of directors that LRH left in place to protect the tech. Each and every sea org member that knew of david miscavige’s crimes and failed to act is equally guilty of these crimes. The crimes being committed are not just ecclesiastical crimes which the government has no business interfering with, they are actual crimes because they are pretending to abide by their duty to ensure that the “church” is in alignment with the founding documents of their various boards. Each and every board member who rubber stamps david miscavige’s off-policy, out-tech actions and demands is himself in violation of the founding documents of the “church.”

    There is absolutely no doubt that the “church of scientology” is no longer co-terminal with the “religion of scientology.” The few examples that Debbie Cook gives in her letter are sufficient to have david miscavige and every member of the boards of directors of the various corporations of the church declared suppressive and removed, not only from post but from the sea org.

    This means that every member of every board and especially david miscavige have absolutely no legal authority to do or demand anything in the name of scientology anymore. The documented proof of this statement is now overwhelming.

    The only power any of these people have is the power to keep you and your friends restimulated.

    Please take the time to really study this. Look at the actual founding docs of the corporations. Look at how they require that the members of the boards of directors are REQUIRED to ensure that standard tech and policy are upheld. Now really LOOK at what’s actually being done by miscavige and his merry band of (whatever the hell they are).

    All we have, really, is david miscavige and a few hundred nazi-like ethics officers and OSA agents holding a few thousand scientologists hostage. And they are being held hostage by restimulation, not by any other factor.

  18. Marty, exactly, AMEN!!!!!!!!!

  19. Returning the love….

    (bumping knuckles)

  20. I will start to open the answers on this part maybe: for thos who are under the radar. We all needed to make choices while on a while, Debbie made a very difficult choice because she is looking the best interest of the people she knows she was part of her Image as Reg-for Flag Campaings and she is taking huge responsability letting people know what was going on for years, I admire her courage despite whatever comment about ” yes but on the past she did this and that” – let the past be the past – DO for today and your future, wich she is trying to warn everybody is full responsability of everybody to watch and keep some clean road among spiritual freedom. I departed long time ago and with my not so good issues and some great ones, of course I am sp declared but who cares?, as long people still look forward the truth about the issues what are affecting their lifes being sp declared is meaningless. Of course she knew OSA Int will do what is doing today. My question for the Freezoners is:

    My question for the Scientologists on good standing and who are watching this blog between the shadows:

    My STATEMENT for the OSA Plants reading this:

    My question for all the ex-sea Orgs:

    e) My question for everybody else who read this blog is:


    Rafael Gómez
    Ex-Latam Exec

  21. I concur with all of the above.

    Being in hiding is not a place to live. To come out and speak your truth allows the sun to shine in. Limbo land is the muddled place where you leave the door open to the cockroaches and flies ……… Survival is truth, truth is survival, it can be no other way. Total transparency, total truth, total freedom.

  22. martyrathbun09

    No, it’s a critter.

  23. And thanks the Lord for ‘Google’!

  24. Yes, if you want courage in anything, go to the independent thinkers. If you’re in need of a a touch of truth before going into your next session, here’s my R factor to you.
    BTW: If you’re in need of a physical mockup for this, I’d go with Curly (Jack Palence) from City Slickers.

    Just Doin’ Time

    There’s long been said,
    a lot about.
    The merits of living,
    and the choices we make.
    A few of them downers,
    but some of them great.
    But all of them there,
    to love or to hate.

    Now the time is upon you,
    whether you like it or not.
    If it’s gonna be purgatory,
    or the better of the lot.
    So take a deep breath,
    and make up your mind.
    If you’re gonna be free,
    or just doin’ time.

  25. FYI, “Varmint” is a critter that you can’t eat, but you want to get rid of because it either eats critters or crops that you *do* want to eat, or it somehow harms other critters you do want to eat.

    Coyote? Eats sheep. Kill it.
    Praire dog? Makes holes in the ground that cattle break their legs in. Kill it.
    Rabbit? Eats crops. Kill it. (OK, you can eat this one)

    Get it?

  26. I’m becoming a fan of The Nightwatchman.
    “I’ll never turn”
    “I’ll never bend”
    I’m with ya now,
    Until the end”

    That says it all to me. I used to have a copy of the Expanded Code of Honor. In it LRH elaborates on each line in the code. Under the line Keep Your Own Council he says something to the effect of, why ask others advice. Who knows you better than you.
    To me the trick is to never turn, never bend off of what’s true for you. The oldest trick in the book when trying to control someone is to make them doubt there own realty. Our under the radar friends, that’s my advice to you. Keep your own council. love, Laura Ann Wilson, not under the radar

  27. Marty,
    Thanks much for this post. I is very informative and much needed information. I actually realized a thing or two.

  28. May many take heed.

  29. Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

    “He should have received a committee of evidence nearly 20 years ago.”
    I know of at least 30 years…

  30. Marty,
    Great summary of the current situation! I fully concur.

    To the huddlers in the dark, i.e. those flying under the radar:: Most of us took a good time to digest the rather shocking data about where the Church of Scientology now stands and then once the certainty of truth set in, took that ‘leap of faith because it was the only means of transportation.’ In fact it was a furious study to get all this new data under the belt with the result of experiencing a TREMENDOUS relief at finally getting to the truth.

    There is an LRH ref (sorry, I can’t find it right now), to weed out of one’s life any and all ‘maybes’. A process that obviously removes the mass of complexity in life, applicable to ANY ‘maybe’ in life but far more basic and important when it comes to Scientology itself.
    Unless you have a family member in the S.O. or some other HIGH priority to stay where you are please stop punishing yourselves and DO come out into the sunshine. A healthy ‘Theta tan’ looks good on everybody!

  31. Thank you Marty and Laura Ann.
    I love the Code of Honor too. The expanded version you refer to is a lecture, 18 Feb. 1952, “The Code of Behavior”, and it is in R&D Vol. 9, pg.371. (specific comm about the Code starts on pg. 386)
    It is wonderful!

  32. Question With Boldness

    Thanks Marty! I think this was really needed today! From my own personal experience, I will tell anyone that is afraid to stand up, It feels soooo much better to speak up. I know it sounds simple, but just do it, you will feel great.

    Anyone reading this blog is so much more awake and cognizant than those whom still tow the line. Even if you have not spoken out, pat yourself on the back! And for those whom have helped under the radar, thank you! It does really take all of us to get the others out of the insanity of Radical C of S.

    Here in Colorado, people are waking up every day as a result of Debbie’s letter. If you are new to this blog also check out, Leaving Scientology, Friends of LRH and Save Scientology. Also, Scientology-cult. Do not let the name of this website put you off, it is a great website. If I can help you, email me at:

    If you can not speak out right now, get yourself a hushmail account, it is free. Go to your local library and get it set up. It can not be traced back to you. You can still communicate to those people whom are declared, disaffected, etc. Most of us here, were in the same position as you, please ask questions, comment, etc. You are amongst friends.


  33. Thank you Marty.
    I concur.

  34. John, truer words were ne’er spake! One of the things that helped me with my son, and others, was the idea: I WAS NOT DISCONNECTING. Before that, I was following the “policy”, staying disconnected because I thought it was “their” code and ethic and I should honor that. There was a person I had stayed away from, a very close friend, who was very willing to talk to me, to my total surprise. it turned out she was disgusted with the Church, and had already made inquiries into where she could get the correct tech in the Indie field. I could have talked to her years ago. So, TO HELL WITH DISCONNECTION. Don’t be afraid to reach; a good percentage will be happy to talk to you. The ones that don’t, well, at least you know where they stand! The ones that will, well you gained back a good friend, and weakened the power of lies that much more!

  35. Marty, you are something :): Thanks for bursting my bubble in a gentle and polite manner 🙂 :).
    To Debbie: Come on girl! You are almost there…one more step and you are out and free for real. Go ahead and free yourself of David Miscavige!

  36. I get it, thanks. Just saw 1st def. online as “Varmint rifle is an American English term for a small-caliber firearm or high-powered air gun primarily used for varmint hunting”. Thanks for clearing that up.

  37. I agree with you Marty – every Scientologist who knows that there is a sickness at the heart of their church should come out and say so and not pussyfoot around. If they really care about their religion they should take immediate and forthright action to expose the wrongness and bring an end to the Tiny Tyrant’s reign of evil. There is no point in ‘waiting to see what happens’ or ‘hoping that it will all sort itself out’. The SS COB’s Folly has been holed below the waterline and is going down fast while the captain is signing up paying guests for the next excursion.

    But, then again, I also disagree with you. I think that Debbie’s email was couched in exactly the right language to get through to those still in the cult. Remember that many well-known and respected Scientologists have left and been very vocal about it. Despite this, there are still several thousand who refuse to leave the cult and will never listen to those who are ‘too critical’ of the CoS. Unfortunately those who are left aren’t up to facing The Truth or at least all of it. What Debbie has done is to try and give them as much truth as they can handle in one go. Perhaps nothing can reach these people now, but I think this was the best avenue to take. Debbie may or may not have had a plan to deal with the aftermath, but at least she has done SOMETHING. I salute her for that.

    Oh, and if anyone should wonder how I can possibly hold two opposing viewpoints at the same time – remember that I used to be a member of the Cult of Miscavige. :-p


  38. I want to add that I’ve seen calls from some quarters in the Indie Movement demanding that Debbie Cook replace David Miscavige as the head of the Church. I have two problems with this:
    1. This would once again present the problem of a one-person ‘leadership’ where checks and balances are not put in place.
    2. I would far rather place my trust in someone who has fully completed a Doubt Formula and moved on up the conditions to a more stable condition. Further more I would not trust anyone the wrong side of a Liability Formula.

    Just a side-note and a warning not to grasp desperately at straws concerning reformation from within.

  39. And just in case a condition of doubt does not do the trick check out if the condition of confusion does fit. Especially in cases that live in a sort of “encapsulated” world of “everything is cared for”, “everything is good”, “the group is all”, “the good group is us” etc. These persons need to find out where they are, i.e. they need to improve their understanding about the situation they are in. They haven’t arrived in the real universe, yet – concerning this group.
    Anything that gets a person through through finding this out will help. This can be looking at the statistic of clears or auditors made, this can be looking at the statistic of their own progress, or of others. By having them doing some calculations: How many people on this planet would have the money for the full bridge, how many wouldn’t? How many auditors would be needed to audit only 1 billion pc’s? By making them understand that the Bridge of LRH is done by doing the Bridge, not by doing something else. Reading books and listening to lectures is not training, yet. Make them understand the difference: after doing so, can they audit?
    Maybe one would have to ask, what would happen if you looked? or
    Before you decided to make no noise, what was your attitude then? and find out what happened.
    There are thousands of approaches and ways to help someone through this condition and once this person has started to look and found out where he or she is, the next conditions will be easy.

  40. Perfect Laura.

  41. +1 Sam! As far as “handling from within”: Not only David Miscavige has to go but all the other crooks he had gathered around himself!

  42. Way to go, LDW! Strong words and good advice. I especially liked: “And they are held hostage by restimulation, not by any other factor.”

  43. Cindy, great comment! Let’s Rock, Colorado! We have such a cool team here. We are here for you to assist you in ridding yourself off the jaws of Corporate Scientology. Contact Cindy or myself if you need anything. My email:

  44. Is there some reason that Debbie or the “under the radar” folks could not also trust their communications with interested ex- or non Scientologists like Chuck Beatty, Tory Cristman or Mark Bunker?

  45. martyrathbun09

    Colorado just needs a bit more formal delivery; and it’ll be the second or third predominantly independent state.

  46. martyrathbun09

    There is a third, more fundamental problem – the church is dead.

  47. martyrathbun09

    What specifically do you disagree with? I don’t see it in your comment.

  48. Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

    Marty, The Peter Principle is an excellent description. Nice choice. Incompetence at the top…… get rid of competent people below as they threaten the hierarchy. This covers points from how Miscavige came into power all the way to the present. That those who have been “in the way” of his path are now saying “enough”, not accepting his tedious drivel, is a beautiful thing.

  49. Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

    When you take out an SP, take out his connections.
    Note: on a mobile device, please someone provide the LRH reference.

  50. Independent Scientologist

    I have been out of the church for just over a year-and-a-half, and in that time span I have been rocketing up the Bridge compared to the progress I had made over a span of DECADES inside the church. Started as a Power Plus completion, am getting ready to audit Solo NOTs.

    So to all you fence sitters – join the independent field! I promise you, the green really IS greener over here!

    Ron Matlock

  51. “If you are under the radar or otherwise quietly sitting on the fence, and you have good reason to be, the most dangerous thing you can possibly do is to contact Debbie Cook or to express any hint of agreement with her email.”

    I don’t doubt you. Her email is very powerful. It is clearly showing that if a person wants the CoS to follow the founder’s policy then David Miscavige will do what he can to destroy you and protect his money machine and his crimes behind the curtain of the church.

    This has been done before many times in history when the ‘leader’ gets in a position of power based on fear and intimidation and money. The word Ruthless comes to mind.

    However speed of communication and laws have changed over the century’s.


  52. Hi Sam,
    Me and many of my friends will not under any circumstances cease being utterly independent. The monopoly that was allowed to occur was all of our responsibility. I wrote my KRs and got comm ev’d for it. But I backed down and knuckled under for another seven years before I finally grew a pair and demanded standard tech, or my money back.
    If Debbie or someone else can revive the dead (the c o $) then power to them. But many of us will continue to deliver on a total bypass, just as we have for years now.
    The group is not all, the individual is not nothing.
    We don’t need another empire. IMHO

  53. This is a fantastic post on many levels, Marty.

    You are two-fold in the push toward actual truth and necessary justice actions:

    1. Your personal Service and Delivery of the real tech and the urging of others to do same.
    2. Taking full responsibility in a highly ethical, truthful manner regarding the outpoint(s)…David Miscavige/OSA

  54. Trust yourself first and foremost then use the Tone Scale to trust others but watch out for the 1.1 they are slippery, slimey and tough to spot but if you feel a bit slimed and don’t know what to think about the person they are most likely 1.1! right?

  55. I’ve not commented much on this Debbie Cook cycle, as I never could understand the purpose of the letter in the first place. Now that OSA is all over the lines, per this blog topic, I just wonder if it was a setup. Get Debbie to send out the letter, find out who contacts her, those will be “under the radar” folks (stealthy, a term used above which I love), go after them. Debbie looks absolutely innocent on the face of it all.

    Correct me if I’m wrong …

  56. +1 Mr Nunez and + ∞ LRH

  57. LOL – subtly implied under the terms of the Doubt Formula Marty 😉

  58. Well Rachel, time will tell the answer to this. If it was all a set up then it was the biggest footnuke in history (including the Squirrel Blusterers) as it resulted in mountains of bad PR for the Church, certainly got some people to open their eyes, and if the effort was to discover “stealthies” then that was really a big fail as they are not going to convince any of the “stealthies” to “conme to their senses” — the fact that they are “caught” is only going to piss them off more, not make them fall in love with the church.

    But, though the scope of the fail is enormous, it doesnt mean it wasn’t another of their elaborate, Wile E Coyote screw ups. The Road Runner cartoons are clearly part of the new “Basics” that everyone in OSA is required to study.

  59. As I said back on Jan 8th, I felt Debbie’s initial letter was Step 2 of a Liability formula. That step is “Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of despite personal danger.” I’d hoped to see her fly on up to Non-E and appear on tv. Didn’t happen.

    Instead we saw a follow-up letter where by the end it read like it was written by OSA and she was promoting the good things the cult does. In other words, Step 2 of Doubt: “Examine the statistics of the individual, group, project or organization.” To me it was clear as a bell that she was deciding to stay with David Miscavige’s cult. I still feel that way today.

    It saddened me to read from today’s blog post above, “Every person that contacted her since her email has been identified and contacted and handled by the corporate church.” How could all those “friends” get in such a jam? Because everyone who contacted her missed the boat completely and totally. Please people, take a look at the PTS tech; Potential Trouble Source. How many people have a boatload of trouble on their hands today all because of trying to befriend someone who, by all appearances, had decided to stay with DM?
    As Les said above, time to pull out the ethics book.

  60. “I’ll never turn”
    “I’ll never bend”
    I’m with ya now,
    Until the end”
    Love it!!!!!!! xxx

  61. martyrathbun09

    Nor a New Order.

  62. Rachel, good observation. you know your pts tech!

  63. Marty thanks so much for this!

    With great reality on Debbie’s letter, I immediately fowarded it to every Scn. contact I had along with a letter from myself explaining why I felt a sincere responsibility to pass it along.

    I asked them to look. Most of them did.

    I did not contact Debbie. I did not consider it for one reason and that being:her comment regarding not being in communication with anyone not “in good standing.” It was a red flag for a couple of reasons although I looked at this same comment through a blind “insider’s” viewpoint and realized that it would create QUITE an effect for the good, regardless of her intentions because those on the inside, were about to look, if and only because of who she is (or was) ..

    It wasn’t a red flag because I was pissed or offended that she was referring to Indies, apostates, etc., as not in “good standing” (whatever the hell that bass ackwards definition means these days). It was a red flag because it seemed to naturally go hand-in-hand with the neutral tone and honesty found in the rest of the letter. It seemed to be her honest viewpoint.

    It was a red flag for “me” because I felt it was awfully naive, on her part. I recall thinking to myself: you Debbie composed her letter and came to the end of that particular line, she might as well have stepped outside right then and there and found her own “hangin’ tree” She left the door wide open and it is what it now. We’ll see which way the wind blows with this as she is now in the “good hands” of OSA and I’m sure they must be on her like stink on Feta.

    Regarding my responses to forwarding her email:
    Regardless of the varied responses, comments, or fall out from public, Scn staff, DSAs, etc., whether they were antagonistic, negative, robotic, rude, 1.1 and obviously “drilled” , I’m sooooooo happy that some of the “brightest stars” within my contacts have written back and are in agreement with Debbie on the outpoints. They each thanked me for forwarding it and sticking my neck out. went as a group email with all recipients shown for others to see!)

    Included in those reponding positively, there are GAT trained sups & auditors! The responses continue to trickle in.

    These people have been “on the fence” because they don’t want to give up or lose what they honestly believe is “the only” means or source to go free and that is Scientology orgs. Yet, they are waking up now and realizing that whatever is happening inside is anything but what LRH intended for Scientology and Dianetics.

    They’ve never looked because they were told they shouldn’t look or they were told anyone naming a Senior Exec as an SP should be immediately handled in Ethics or with Sec/Checks., etc. They were told they could not go onto their OT Levels “if they looked”. They have had their heads taken off or Sec Checked for simply asking questions.

    They have been lied to & I feel a deep personal responsibility to give them the truth. LRH would want that.

    To really be able to help my personal contacts that are now “looking” or waking up and asking questions, etc., I simply forward Marty’s new blogs as soon as they are posted or refer them to The Indie 500 list and Steve’s web site. I’m taking a win on it! I’m impressed with the percentage of people that have not asked me to “stop sending” it.

    Please excuse me for not knowing the bulletin per LRH on the my following viewpoint /analogy regarding: Stable Datums and yes..someone please post the exact go with it, if you have it Thanks!

    *Scientology in all of it’s many processes, policies, etc. works if applied. People know it works and this is what is called a “stable datum” for them and anyone that considers themselves Scientologists. They find great comfort in knowing they have the answers to their problems with this stable datum.

    Debbie, sending out this letter exposing the out-tech and off-policy etc, to those who were comfortable with Scientology but also oblivious to everything that is really going with Scientology have suddenly had their stable datum thoroughly shaken up and taken away.

    Example: A stable datum (for an alcoholic) is the fact that his problems go away when he is drinking from his bottle and he knows and operates with this every single day. You cannot or should not take away this alcoholic’s bottle without giving him something else in return that will replace his stable datum, for instance: B-1, B Complex, Starbuck’s or even a snow cone. …anything!

    No matter how good Debbie’s intentions were and how effective she was in getting people to look for the first time, she failed to provide a replacement that would suffice. Unfortunately, doing so, at any time in the near future may not happen at all, given her circumstances.

    And that is why I continue forwarding this blog or Steve’s website and it’s working as people search for the truth in the midst of all the chaos.

    Thanks Marty!

  64. Les:

    My 2c on this subject.

    To paraphrase Monty Python, you could run 50 million volts through this dead church and it still wouldn’t move. This parrot is DEAD, shuffled off its mortal coil and gone to meet its maker.

    And it has died in the most horrible means possible — every cell has been infected with that most deadly strain of cancer, Miscavigeism. To re-animate this body you would have to excise every cell, as every cell carries the disease that if left behind would begin invading any new cells. LRH was very clear, over and over, when he said “Whwen you take out an SP you HAVE to take out every one of their connections.” By definition, anyone left in the C of S is card carrying David Miscavige brown-noser who worships at the altar of “COB.” the false data concerning Ethics, Tech and Admin has permeated every nook and cranny of the organization.

  65. Sam, agreed, I do not trust anyone on the wrong side of a Liability Formula period.

  66. Les, well said.

  67. Mike,
    I don’t think DM would care about the bad PR so long if he could get Debbie back in the fold. You know it had to be giving him nightmares thinking he might see her on Good Morning America telling the world about being made to stand in a garbage can and God knows what else.

    I agree it was a huge fail but I think DM sees things differently. One thing I do know is that an insane person will “reason” things differently than the rest of us.

  68. They are not trying to pretend any allegiance to the “church” and have spoken out publicly. That would be a good start. Clearly those 3 are of real concern to the church to qualify for special recognition here…

  69. WakingUp(in2012)

    I’ve got the warm and fuzzies. Go independent Scientologists! It is nice to have a group again. It’s wonderful to know that we all have different relationships to LRH, different experiences with Scientology and different perspectives on it all. AND THAT’S OK! The goal is not to conform thought, but to share, grow and listen. What a breath of fresh air. Let’s have a convention or something!

  70. touche Mike, LMAO!

  71. Pat — I agree with you, though I can assure you that what DM DOES care about is his OWN “PR.” Anything that appears in the media that is critical of him is nuclear meltdown material. Worldwide coverage of what a putz he is drives him into a frothing ball spraying spittle around the room. It’s wonderful to know how vain he is and what drives him to irrational actions.

  72. Then what we need is a graphic artist to make up some cartoons of DM. Just like the Wile E Coyote cartoons you mentioned above. If his own PR is his button, some good cartoons should give him a total meltdown.
    Cartoons of DM in his muscle tee’s, in a TC autographed thong, making people salute his dog in uniform, his little body on giant weight lifting equipment, holding his copper rods etc. etc.

  73. So wanting to stay under the radar is a matter of integrity? Depends on the person and their level of Scientology involvement and many other variables. Now many of the former Kool-aid drinkers that contributed to and kept the corrupt structure in place stand in judgement of those that have not fully embraced the independent movement at this time?

    I was involved peripherally (mini-courses only) for many years because of a connection to in-laws that are Scientologists and then bought into it full bore for about two years from 2006 to 2008 or so. Loved auditing but hated the Church structure from day one. Was never on staff but did contribute a decent amount to the IAS as I have a passion for cultural and global issues and fell for the help propaganda. After enough observations that gave me the creeps, I told them I thought reforms were needed and I was getting my spiritual enlightenment elsewhere. The SP Times series only provided details to the level of corruption that I had already partially identified.

    I am not protecting a paycheck or connections to Scientologist family or close friends (since divorced my way out the Scn family and really don’t care to speak with any of them anyway). When staff call me…I tell them point blank where I stand and maybe plant a seed of doubt with one or two that I care about because after all I am a highly respected “up-stat” in the non- Scientology business world. I like maintaining my comm. lines to certain staff so maybe I can turn them, and if I embrace Marty and the movement, then I become a pawn of the “King Pin” and instant pariah.

    It’s the way I choose to play it at this time and I am guessing my approach will change as all of this unfolds, and by the way, I still feel like a dupe at times and don’t fully trust some of you that either looked or lived behind the curtain and knew it was bullshit and still tried to reg. me and other fresh meat regardless based upon on your own agenda…there is the real integrity issue…those that saw the truth and justified and/or participated in the organizational out-ethics.

  74. “When all else fails, do what Ron says.”

  75. Under the radar is ok, but quietly sitting on the fence just enjoying the show is cowardice and cynicism.

  76. Random Stranger

    RTC Division

    1 January A.M. (After Miscavige) 25

    1) Understandable: Evil – Off Guard: Fun
    2) Considerations: Evil – Other Determined: Fun
    3) Freedom: Evil – Barriers: Fun
    4) Kindness: Evil – Hate: Fun
    5) Subtle Elegance: Evil – Arrogance: Fun
    6) Grant Beingness: Evil – Kill: Fun
    7) Others: Evil – Self: Good
    8) Good: Evil – Evil: Fun & Good
    9) Yours: Evil – Mine: Good
    10) Internet: Evil – DVDs: Good
    11) Public Transportation: Evil – Private Jet: Good
    12) Poor: Evil – Rich: Good
    13) Independent: Evil – Corporate: Good
    14) Trust: Evil – Spies: Good
    15) Tall: Evil – Short: Good
    16) Other Celebrities: Evil – TC: Good
    17) Blinking: Evil – Laser Stare: Fun
    18) Natural Face: Evil – Pie Face: Good
    19) Acknowledgement: Evil – Humiliation: Good & Fun
    20) Sex: Evil – Sublimated Dedication: Good

    David Miscavige

  77. p.s. read the High Crime list for his thoughts on what not to do. Now that immediately may create a confusion, as the stable points that LRH expected an organization to have do not exist in the church today. Thus, it will require your Student Hat to evaluate which things are more important than the other in that list. They are not A=A=A. But you will take from it a certain overriding flavor which will give you an LRH take on how to solve this problem. And that is not to say that the whole breadth of policy and tech should not be consulted on how to tackle this problem.

  78. expelled 4 Life

    There is a difference between “being under the radar” and “on the fence”. I am not on the fence in the slightest way. The Church knows it as do my closest comm lines both still in the Church and those who have left. People who know me know where I stand. For me “being under the radar” has been a strategic move that has allowed me to get products I don’t think I would have gotten if I were overt.

  79. Wow, yes that’s it. The cancer analogy is perfect. I’d been trying to work out exactly WHY it was that this dead entity couldn’t be re-vitalised and that explains it. Intuitively one knows, and I have remarked several times on this very blog, that getting rid of POB, sorry, David Miscavige, and replacing him with Marc, Guillaume or whoever is left would change nothing. But yes, the cancer of Miscavigeism has pervaded too deeply and permanently – perfect description.

  80. LRH spits on you for that one.

  81. Pat, saw that on the 8th of January and again today. Number of times over equals certainty. It is time to pull out the ethics book for sure.

  82. martyrathbun09

    To whom is that comment directed?

  83. Tom Gallagher in Cincinnati

    + 1 at least my friend.

    You, Ron, are a true testament of Independent Scientology in action.

    By the way, for other’s understanding, we ‘met’ initially, here at Marty’s place.

    I can state without reservation that Ron Matlock is a model of independence. Anyone who fears that their “eternity” is threatened by RCS might just take a look around.

    Freedom abounds! And Ron, you’re inspirational. Thanks!

  84. Your TR 0 is out on Miscavige and always has been. I am sick of this enemy line that the church is dead.

  85. Marty:-
    “Her only hope for survival is choosing truth over compromise, something quite confrontable and doable thanks to the sacrifices of Independent Scientologists over the past three years.”

    The new people writing in the last 3 years have been extrordinarily effective, and Marty and others have borne the brunt of attacks from CO$. However they are late on the chain and
    should recognize others came before, and were also instrumental
    on creating the current scene. When repercussions were more likely for the lone individual. [ well, if they weren’t former IGs etc]

    Ken Ogger aka ” The Pilot”, for example, was writing very critical comments of CO$ from 1997. One needn’t like his tech comments,
    but his “political ” input was inspiring. I was inspired. He was eloquent here:-

  86. The thing is, this enemy line did not come from you. Who told you that? Investigate and you will find a real SP spreading that shit.

  87. martyrathbun09

    To whom is that comment addressed?

  88. martyrathbun09

    Criticalness has nothing to do with anything I am talking about. Tune in Pal.

  89. martyrathbun09

    Take a walk. To say “LRH spits on you” is the most presumptuous, corporate-cultish sort of arrogance I have seen on this blog in ages.

  90. martyrathbun09

    Take a walk. To say “LRH spits on you” is the most presumptuous, corporate-cultish sort of arrogance I have seen on this blog in ages and you are fast wearing out your welcome.

  91. The Economist

    Marty…Nope did not get crticalness from your post in the least. It was some of the comments that struck me as so.

  92. This is for Mike, so what is the solution from your point? I was thinking that every CLO Execs and CMO, and Int Levels Execs should go out and that will include also OSA Terminals and RTC. Also Execs terminals from Flag and of course DM.
    Please explain to me what will be the solution

  93. Wow John! WTF? Take it easy buddy…

  94. Thanks, Bela!!

  95. You need to either:

    a) Clear up what an “enemy line” is because if I suspect you could not believe that the church as envisaged by L. Ron Hubbard still exists. If it does, then why aren’t you participating in it?

    0r b) get sober and return when you are able to think straight.

  96. Nice, Ron Matlock!

  97. “To re-animate this body you would have to excise every cell, as every cell carries the disease that if left behind would begin invading any new cells ” a good action for any new international scientology managment would be to approve the free access of the parishioners to the scientology materials on-line in the web, advanced courses included. This honest action would be healing.

  98. Broad dissemination and application of the tech minus the organized, regimented raping and pillaging of everyone unfortunate enough to walk through the doors.

  99. You said: “Expanded Code of Honor
    That interests me very much – do you have a copy of it or know where I can find it ?

  100. Yes, Indie Scientologist, it is as simple as that !

  101. Sounds like an IAS Reg. How much money do I need to fork over this time?

  102. Thanks for this email Marty.

    Explains the rather reverse/about face that the ONLY person still considering herself a scientology that I communicate with and the conversation we had yesterday.

    I sent her the Debbie Cook email for which she thanked me. She even wrote saying that she had written immediately to Debbie thanking her and friending her.

    I didn’t tell her later when Debbie’s FB was hacked.

    When speaking with

  103. When you give a new word, try to take pity on those of us who don’t know it and give the definition. I could unload an encyclopedia myself, but it ususlly just gets me in trouble…

  104. Sorry — meant to delete and instead sent it.

    So to wrap up — instead of being receptive to more communication from me about the current scene, she was completely shut down and said she didn’t know really if the church was expanding or not — anyway — I was unable to keep talking to her, I was so flipped out — and said so.

    She said — nice speaking with … and I clicked off on my cell.

    And that ends what was a rather difficult relationship — she refused to look to SEE if Flag is booming, Tampa org etc because she refuses to go INTO a church.

    And yet — she’ll believe what she’s told. She spoke to me reversing things she had said as if she was being taped. Very bizarre.

    Still amazes me.


  105. Worsel
    You are right. There are many, many ways as long as the actual LOOKING is taking place. It is much harder to spot what is NOT there,
    like for example ‘Bridge progress’. How many of your friends are NOT progressing up LRH’s Bridge, how many of your friends are NOT doing any Scientology at all and are ‘stuck somewhere’, how many of your friends are NOT with you anymore because they lost their body in the last few years etc. etc.
    I can only HOPE that they come up with a better picture than what I came up with.

  106. 🙂 my pleasure!

  107. I don’t really buy into this viewpoint (“the church is dead”) although I understand how some could come to this conclusion.

    The cancer analogy is apt but perhaps needs to be unpacked a bit more. There are cancers that can be excised and there are that can’t.

    IMO the guiding principle should always be “What was LRH’s Intent?” Does anyone doubt that he would want his Church saved and restored to full integrity if at all possible?

    I cannot see why a serious attempt should not be made to reinstate truly independent boards as LRH intended, expel the cancer that is David MIscavige and no doubt many of his enablers, and attempt to set right the course of this current mess and disgrace that goes by the moniker “Church of Scientology”.

    I do think that is what LRH would expect us to do.

    To many of us former staff and auditors, operating in the outer orgs, missions and field groups, the central orgs such as ASHO, AO, and Flag were places we could count on to maintain the “Standard” in Standard Tech. Seems to me it would be beneficial to all to restore them IF POSSIBLE.

    What the hell, seems to me it’s worth giving it a shot at least.

  108. Tom Gallagher in Cincinnati



  109. Tom Gallagher in Cincinnati

    We’re Bugs.

  110. Pat, I recommend Dan Koon for this job. He is not only a very talented artist, he is also a GREAT cartoonist.

    Though it may have been a few years since he last created in this area, I’m sure he could brush up a bit and provide us (and DM) with some awesomely scathing material!

  111. martyrathbun09

    you noted, “IMO the guiding principle should always be “What was LRH’s Intent?” You could argue that till the cows comes home. Unfortunately, that is what church management has done since the day I became familiar with them, till the day I left twenty-seven years later. Net result = there is no original thought and there is no responsibility. And that is why, in my opinion the church is dead.

  112. When I brought this email up with an HCO staff member, I was told that there was a ‘declare on the lines’ on Debbie before she sent out the email and that she was just trying to ’cause as much destruction as she could on her way out’. This was all to attempt to DA that Debbie was ‘in good standing’ when she sent the email. The staff member told me Debbie must have had some sort of justice action when she left the SO and the declare is probably the result of that (an odd thing to conjecture considering that she left 4-5 years ago!).

    Unsurprisingly, I also got a litany of reasons why everything she said in the email was untrue.

  113. Thanks for the reply. It makes sense that “on the fence” Scientologists wouldn’t want to make contact with alleged “SPs.” But aren’t the independents also so labelled? My question was in response to Marty’s saying that independents were the only secure option… I wondered whether he thought (or you think) that the non-scientologists are untrustworthy for some reason. As to why those three were named, it’s just because they’re fairly prominent and they seem credible to me — I’m an outside observer of Scientology via the press and the internet. I’ve never had any involvement with Scientology, and am certainly not any sort of undercover agent, if that’s what you meant to imply.

  114. Let me give you a reality here as an auditor and C/S out here in the “Independent” community.

    First of all, let me all let you know that I gave a great session today. Keep going in session, keep auditing.

    Now, the thing is, this sucks out here. There is NO Qual. There is NO Ethics Section. There is nothing like that. It’s HARD to deliver Standard Tech.

    That’s what this is really about.

  115. martyrathbun09

    you noted, “It’s HARD to deliver Standard Tech.” I guess that is why you need a church.

  116. The LRH data re confusion and stable datum is in the book “PROBLEMS OF WORK”. Tech Dictionary says page 23 but that may be slightly different in the latest edition.

  117. A thetan has a right to play or not play any game.

  118. Laura Ann

    And I quote:

    “Be your own advisor, keep your own council and select your own decisions.
    That is a heck of a thing, isn’t it? You are educated from childhood to listen to the opinions of others. To you they are worth nothing because only you have enough data to evaluate you. You can sit down and communicate for days, weeks, months to a person and not even then give him all; the data you have about you. So go around and get advice if you want to. It is not going to be good advice because it is not based on all the facts. Only YOU have all those facts. If you want to get along well, be your own advisor. If you take council with yourself about what is right or wrong, you can then take council with others to find out if your data agrees with theirs, or what between you you can pool as data which makes a new conclusion.”

    Eric S

  119. Sam, I sent you an email. Please answer when you have a chance. I am not a troll, at least not in the definition of this blog 🙂


  120. martyrathbun09

    Raul’s cool

  121. “a frothing ball spraying spittle around the room”
    I love the imagery Mike. Good job – I totally got it 🙂

  122. OMWU
    Easy to PRE-date a declare. Paper is sooooo patient!

  123. I haven’t found it online.

    It is called, “The Code of Behavior” and it is to my knowledge only published in the R&D volumes. I believe Volume 9, but maybe it was 7 or 8. It comes from an LRH lecture which is not part of the released CDs.

    It is by far the best reference on the subject of ethics, morals and the code of honor (called Code of Behavior before it became the Code of Honor) and the only place where LRH elaborates on each of the 15 points of the Code of Honor.

  124. John, it is not only more standard or easier to work with a team of people to deliver the tech – it is also fun! I can see what you mean. You should put together a group at where you are. Why don’t you move to Denver and we’ll put together a group 🙂

  125. Lynne,

    To whom were your comments directed?

    Notwithstanding the truth of what Marty said, here are a couple of quotes that I believe bolster the validity of Roberto and Rafael’s comments.

    “There comes a time when silence becomes betrayal.” – Martin Luther King

    “There is a point where Stupidity ends and Treason begins.” – LRH

  126. martyrathbun09

    Watch what you ask for.

  127. That cartoon is great.

  128. Study Tape 5 – Evaluation of Information.

  129. True but if he is an espectator at least dont get in the way of the players : ) right? and yes a thetan has that same right you just said, but also has responsability about what he is just looking because if he just looks and is not having it is not even duplicating it…

  130. Publius,

    I may be wrong here as there is a certain degree of speculation involved, but from my own reality and experience I can only concur with Marty.

    “Doing what LRH says” would be a guiding principle perhaps, but only when it is a means to look up a reference to aid you in making up your mind what the right next action is.

    If you study the majority of writings by LRH it soon becomes evident that the overriding principle is to think for yourself – ironically a slogan of the dead Church. From day 1 the goal of auditing has been to go up the tone scale, increase the self-determinism of an individual, etc.

    For an auditor the goal has been to get him to have enough understanding of the human mind that he can think with what’s happening with the PC in front of him and hence be able to help him through the use of the exact right auditing process and command.

    Policy exist to educate you in that direction.

    However, the current “Church”, and, that’s why it is dead IMO, is doing the reverse. They are telling you how and what to think and they fear nothing more than fully self-determined individuals. They have even managed to redefine free-thought with “reasonable” and “open-minded”.

    The training (GAT) is done on the principle to robotically learn everything instead of fully understanding the material and applying it to the situation in front of you.

    As this has gone on for so long inside the Church, even if DM was removed or otherwise disappeared from his leadership, the remaining staff wouldn’t be able to go on with it in the large majority, as they are used to being dependent on what some higher-up “command intention” tells them what to do. Even if a good-intentioned individual assumes the top position, the staff would just blindly follow, as compared to LRH’s intention of training and processing staff to the point where they can take their own initiative and run their zone of responsibility fully.

    This is not how 98% of the Church is run, and this makes the Church “dead” as it isn’t managed and run by individuals who are truly applying what LRH says, but quite to the contrary are robotically executing what they are told, with no self-evaluation as to the wrongness or rightness, and even if it develops into “critical thought” they are too weak to express it – the total opposite of what LRH intended staff members to be.

    So Marty’s observation that there is no original thought and no responsibility is unfortunately true in the large majority. This applies to the concept of the existing C of S, meaning it is “dead” as a Church as LRH intended it.

    Of course the Church of Scientology as a religious concept by LRH is not “dead”, but the existing organization and the manifestation of it is, mainly because what I laid out above.

    I hope this clarifies some for those who don’t like to see the word “dead” used in conjunction with the Church.

  131. Code of honor

    Just never do that. It is not only non-survival for comrades,it is very non-survival for you.

    It is ten times worse to be a backslider than to never have been part of the group. This is the situation where you grant allegiance – make a postulate that you are going to have allegiance -to a group ,an entity or a god and afterwards decide you are not going to.The person who never made the postulate ,of course isn’t trying to overcome a postulate.But the person who says , “I am now a true son of the church ,” then a few years later discovers he is not a true son of the church ,and does not want to have anything to do with the church anymore, really goes to the devil.The only thing that is making him go to the devil is his postulate to be the part of the group. So, it’s much worse to be a backslider than never to have been at all.

    A person sometimes has to differentiate what group he’s supposed to support and how wide that support is and what these elements are. But a person who deserts a group will show up on an E-meter ,even if he deserted that group 1000 years ego.


    No matter how much other people would like you to believe that this is the way to be polite, the way to win friends and influence people, I can guarantee you that minimization of yourself ,your strength and power is the fastest way in the world to make enemies. And be torn limb from limb. It says , ” I’m weak . Come on, boys, go ahead, knock me flat! I’m nobody.”

    In the most decated sosieties ,the oldest and most tired societies,you find that the minimization of one’s strength and power is the order of the day.

    The Japanese says, “I withhold my foul breathfrom your face.This unworthy one would like to say to glorious you,that in his humble andignorant opinion…”This is chatter! Where are these people on the tone scale?They are almost dead.

    Back before Christ,if you were to ask a German knight, “Come on, admit it.You aren’t the strongest knight in five tribes around…” he would probably have taken his battle axe to you .You had insultedhim. By the way, the German tribes where almost unaberrated. They had terrifically high self-determinizm,and were very powerfully minded people.The Romans were strung along the Rhine trying to hold them down.Some German knight would ride back and forth and announce that he was the strongest , the most powerful ,the best,he was worth any 180 Romans. They would send 180 Romans so they could eat him up and he would eat them up!

    These tribes suffered ,when they suffered at all,because of tremendous individualism. They would not hang together as political entities to fight Rome.Rome was very down tone scale but it had it’s good organized marchinglegions and, as a result ,could hit a solid blow into the thin individualistic tribe-coalitions.

    If you want to lick the german nation,get in there and make it the vogue to negate self. Tell them this is the “polite” way to live. Tell them not to blow hard about what one can do .If you could do that ,you fix the German nation so you would never have any more trouble with them.
    By the way,an actual clinical check-back on the process on the ‘how to win friends and influence people “type show that this particular attitude towards life is the most certain way to make an individual sick and hated. It says, “Go into ARC with everybody you meet,regardless of where he is on the tone scale .” That’s a great trick! How sick do you want to be?

    But never need praise or approval. People have an awfully hard time trying to figure it out until they find out why they had to have praise or approval. Praise and approval are licenses to survive. An individual would have to be down tone scale and non-self -determined indeed to go around and ask other individuals , “Can I survive?”

    If you think it is real, it is real. Do not ever compromise with it. If somebody else comes along and says, “Well, it is not real actually. On page 6 of professor Wittebunk’s cranium depository system it says there that they are hallucinations and illusions..”

    and you say ,”Anybody who could be that confused must be right,” or would be compromising your own reality. It is a mighty tough thing to tell somebody who is very circuit-determined instead of self-determined that any time he considers something it is right or him and he had better not change his mind about it. Accepting other realities than your own, against your own assessment,is a certain way to go down tone scale. You‘ll get sick.


    In other words, never permit a feeling of affection you have to be tampered with by somebody else.You can tamper with it if you want but don’t let someone else come along
    and tell you that “the reason why you should not like Jones is because …” and tell you a lot of things about Jones.

    And don’t let somebody come along and tell you you have to like Mrs. Smith, like they used to do when you were a little kid. Remember? “You have to like Aunt Bessie.” You know she has a lot of money that she’ll probably leave you ( they don’t tell you that) .But you have to like her because “It makes her feel so bad when you don’t run into her room and kiss her when she comes in.You must run in and say hello.” That might or might not be
    the way to handle Aunt Bessie, but that is the way to kill yourself.

    If you don’t like Aunt Bessie,you ‘ll get a lot of further saying, “I don’t like you!”

    She ‘ll immediately get confused and say ,”Why,dear?” This will worry her. “Well,I don’t like your nose and I don’t like the way you you are wearing your glasses.And I don’t like
    the clammy kisses you gave me.” Aunt Bessie will probably put on Act 624 and say,”you are cruel to me.” Well, I don’t mean to be cruel,I just want to tell you the truth.” First thing you know ,Aunt Bessie will be interested in one person in that family! That’s the boy who would say those things to her! Fascinating!






    If you want to have a guy who is going to do a terrible job of managing, get somebody who is afraid to hurt people. Get somebody who can tear people to pieces any time that is indicated and you’ll have a good, smooth running organization. It is not because it is force that is required, but honesty.An individual who is afraid to hurt people is going to be dishonest to those people. He is afraid to hurt them so he will wind up hurting them more
    by a hundred times.


    Don’t give a darn, because if you start giving a darn you won’t be liked or admired. The only way, really, to be liked or admired is to not care if you are liked or admired, but to act most any way you please. And you‘ll be surprised at how many people will like and admire you. But that isn’t why you act the way you please .You act the way you please and as you should because it is an honest way to act. It is kind of a lie to be one thing and act
    like another just because it is polite.


    That is a heck of a thing, is not it? You are educated from childhood to listen to the opinions of others.To you they are worth nothing because only you have enough data to
    evaluate you.You can sit down and communicate for days ,weeks and month to a person
    and not even give him all the data you have about you.So go around and get advice if you want to.It is not going to be a good advice because it is not based on all the facts. Only you have all those acts. If you want to get along well, be your own advisor . If you take council with yourself about what is right and what is wrong, you can then take council with others to find out if your data agrees with theirs. Or what between you can pool as data wich makes a new conclusion.


    To cause things ,one must be cause . And the primary requisite of being cause is a statement of intention and goal, a clear statement of what you are trying to do.Only when you clearly state it can you avoid being yourself an eventual effect.”What am I trying to do?” I you can’t answer that you’ll foul up!”

    Even a poor goal is better than none. You can put that down as a beautiful maxim. It sounds like one of these horrible truisms but it will fish you out of more holes than you can imagine you can get yourself into!

    You‘ll find yourself very often squirreling and spinning around. You don’t know which way you are going or which way is up because you decided all the goals you could put your eyes on were too vague or too poor or too unwanted to try to attain. That itself is a bad aberration and shows a misdirection and mis-estimation on your part. And a lack of understanding on your part of what you are doing.

    You are, yourself cause. How on earth can you set it up so cause can be anything else but cause?

    There is no goal vast enough to absorb your total capabilities because your total capabilities are so vast that they make goals.” –LRH

  132. Publius –

    Respectfully, considering your propositions: the question of economic viability comes up. There would advantages to salvaging the religious status, and some functions such as printing and publishing are best centralized, but I’d like to hear a plan, even a sketch, to handle overhead, liabilities, and personnel. In my view, the extent of the damage is not fully appreciated.


  133. Wow, Mike, that is a very hard line view. Why, it’s . . . ruthless. I have read this comment several times, and there’s no getting around what you have said. Does this mean we should stop trying to get people out of there? I myself have gotten kind of tired of the whole Miscavige thing. Thinking about him, talking about him is getting old. Once I got a taste of STANDARD TECH, i lost all desire to go back, and wrote a comment about that. But, I still considered there was hope for some of those that were still there. You have my 100% agreement that “The false data concerning Ethics, Tech and Admin has permeated every nook and cranny of the organization.” How do think we should proceed forward? Enquiring minds want to know!

    Do you know where the reference came from, about taking out every connection of the SP? Astonishing to me, I had not heard that one before, but it makes sense.

  134. What I duplicated from this posting might be different than some, but I did not get that Marty was trying to blame or make wrong or push people who are “under the radar” to come out.

    He was stating the facts with regards to Debbie and that he hopes she will choose the TRUTH over compromise in the end and when it counts.

    As a result of her email the church has labelled Debbie an apostate. She has been black PRed heavily by them. So where is she now? Where does she stand? Will she continue to pretend that she is “in good standing” and is not “connected to any SP’s”, etc. She may not be connected to other “SP’s” but by their own label she is an bona fide SP herself. (What they consider to be an SP, that is.)

    What did it take for me to be declared an SP? I didn’t send out an email to hundreds of Scientologists. The church simply found out I was in agreement with Marty Rathbun, and no longer supported Miscavige. I immediately lost all of my friends and family.

    And there are hundreds and hundreds like me.

    Before being declared the church had my parents call me and ask me to come back. They said if I saw OSA and sorted things out everything would be fine. I could keep my family, etc.

    I said NO. I’m not interested in talking to OSA and hearing more lies. I’ve already heard enough. I know what I know. My personal integrity was more important than my immediate life.

    I paid a huge price. But for me that was the RIGHT thing to do. When faced with the ultimatum I did not compromise. And so many others made the same choice when it came down to it. I stood by my convictions.

    I was under the radar for awhile too. About 1 1/2 months. I didn’t go searching or asking for a public Declare. I wasn’t making a lot of noise. But when I was discovered and shoved in a corner, I did not buckle. I stood my ground and moved forward from that point as an Independent Scientologist. There were only a few of us back then and Marty was there for me throughout the entire ordeal and stood by me and would have flown out to help me deal with OSA if needed, and offered to do so.

    And not only did I lose my family, but I lost my husband only a few months later too. So I was on my own completely with my 2 year old son. The strength of my beliefs and my new family (which at the time was Marty & Mosey and then soon followed Haydn and Mike) kept me going and things started going really well very quickly. But I knew where I stood, who I was and who my friends were.

    I’m so glad to have the friends I have in this community. They have my back, and I have theirs and there is nothing that compares to this. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s for real, and it’s unconditional. That is the truth.

  135. Tony DePhillips

    Hi John,
    I think you’re out of line.
    I liked the article you wrote about the tech a few posts back.
    I do think that Debbie Cook tried to take the high road and reach the insiders still in a coma.
    I do get the sense that she will get swept up by the cult and this will backfire on her. Either that or she will wake up and take the gloves off. I hope she does take the gloves off or Ithink she is toast.
    The idea you put out that she was going to take over the church is pretty unreal to me.
    Marty and Mike have done WAY more to turn this whole debacle around than Debbie Cook or you have done. Saying LRH would spit on Marty was totally off the wall and you lost some major credibility for saying that. Personally I think LRH would have to take some responsibility (and would) for such a creature taking over his church. If you know of someone doing more, please let us know about it.

  136. Wow Marty. That was weird. A sudden outburst of veneration of an institution – as opposed to honoring the living, breathing subject of life itself? Weird.

  137. Wow Ron, you are rockin’ and rollin’! You’ve been busy! Way to go! Up the Bridge! The grass really is greener, and you aren’t letting any of it grow under YOUR feet! Very, Very Well Done!

  138. The stories about Debbie will continue to morph in the time worn tradition of all dictatorships that want to control the thinking of their people about former leaders who are now no longer in favor. If it goes on long enough Debbie will not only be a squirrel, apostate and liar, she will have been engaged in many years of highly questionable 2D irregularities, stolen enormous amounts of money and there will be good reason to believe she was a plant for the APA. And from there, the sky is the limit….

  139. All the spiritual money you have, i hope it is a lot.

  140. Included the right to play with responsibility over your dynamics.

  141. This is not a game.
    People are dying.
    Carry on resting on your fence.

  142. Rafa:

    CUALQUIER cita de Ron es válida para justificar guevonerias y estar en lo correcto.
    Saludos a tí y a Dani.

  143. Publius,

    Neither you, nor anyone else need agree with my view.

    I sincerely wish you good luck in what I believe is a sisyphean endeavor. I don’t plan to devote any effort to trying to roll that boulder uphill.

  144. Hermano: Esto es lo que faltaba…
    Es momento de aceptar lo que es…
    El que nace para maceta…

  145. …might get a not-so-healthy dose of “using policy to stop”.

  146. Roberto,

    Qué pasó con ese respeto?, desde cuando te hablo yo de esa forma eh? : ) y guevonerias y estar en lo correcto realmente la verdad no entiendo tu respuesta hacia lo que yo dije, el día que vea a Dani le paso tus saludos sin problema pero compadre qué onda? de qué se trata?

  147. Además de todo y esto? para quien es? contesto pues a mi me respondiste en español y que pasó? tambien esto o esto ya no o k onda?

  148. I assume there are many people who have valid reasons, and many who could come out but just arent ready to confront it. It took me a while.
    I think you even gave me some grief for posting as “DFB” before I came out.
    I went through some enturbulation after coming out, but I came out better and stronger than before. It was one of the best things I have ever done.

    I am finally moving up the Bridge thanks to Tom and Linda.

    The Church tried to break up my marriage and family, but failed.

    “Friends” disconnected and tried to destroy me, but they failed, and now I know who my real friends are.

    I can finally live now that I am free.

    The Church is suppressive. That sounds pretty harsh and it’s hard to really confront when you are still connected, but I swear to god it’s true. After being out a while now I see it for what it is.

    I WAS PTS.


    David Miscavige, I’ll look you in the eye, be there comfortably and and tell you what I think. I doubt you could confront me.

  149. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Scott.
    That is one of my favorite LRH articles of all time.

  150. Well said Chris!

  151. I agree with most of that-but I find the “Never withdraw an allegience once given,” part to be a bit unhelpful.

    Obviously, David Miscavige has taken advantage of one’s wanting to help. When a person or group has broken faith with you, it is a very unhealthy thing to continue to give your faith to them.

  152. Jethro Bodine

    There’s also no IAS registrar who’s going to rape you financially once a week to the point of making you feel like you spent the night in a jail cell with “Bubba”…

  153. “Enemy line”? Please drop the third-party blame game bullshit, already. Do you *really* think Marty is incapable of coming to his own conclusions, John?

    Maybe you ought to start doing some thinking for yourself, instead of trying to find “plug-n-play” conspiracy theories that might fit your pre-conceived notions.

  154. Tony DePhillips

    I never pledged allegiance to david miscavige.
    I know what you mean though. I always like to mitigate some of these things with absolutes are unobtainable. I disagree with the NEVER part too.

  155. I’m so glad I never gave my allegience to him in the first place.

    I believe I’ve conferred to myself the right to leave a game

  156. one of those who see

    Agree. There is a difference between “on the fence” and “under the radar.” I am not on the fence and many of my friends know that. I am in comm with people that have been declared as well. I have family reasons for being under the radar. Some old and young. I am doing my part the best I can. Taking calculated risks. But, need to remain under the radar for now.
    I will tell you, this “facebook police” chapter of Church History is really really disgusting. Disgusting and frightening. For those starting to read here. Would you want the present Church of Scientology running the world? Sends a shiver, doesn’t it?

  157. No no no, Michael….it’s just sleepin…takin’ a nap…:)

  158. one of those who see

    Beautiful. Hugs from me.

  159. Another great video by Tom Morello! Keep posting the good music Marty, it’s a great accompaniment to your remarks. And so the War Rages On! To my way of thinking it doesn’t really matter what public pronouncements anyone makes about being on one side or the other as regards the Corp. Church of Scn versus the Independent movement. You could get half the current Scn population to come out as Independents, and it would not necessarily result in the demise of David Miscavige as the Totalitarian Leader of the Corporation of Scn. The problem is that there is nobody inside the organization that is strong enough or popular enough to lead the Coup D’etat. There’s nobody that I know of that has the power, conviction, and strength of personality to pull that off. Those at the top of the Corp ladder are all just a bunch of fuckin’ sheep, really. That is evident. As a public Scientologist, Debbie did what she thought was right. But if the weight of that email she sent out does not in turn lead to bringing Miscavige down, then nothing else will. Either an unstoppable wave of dissention from within will build as a result, or it will just fade away as a moment lost in time. But short of someone approaching Miscavige at close range with a gun in their hand, I don’t see how anyone can unseat his throne. It’s due to lack of GUTS and lack of LEADERSHIP skill. Let’s just hope that the weight of his own overt acts finally recoils on himself and he develops a debilitating disease of some sort! And theoretically, that is what should happen!

  160. Tony DePhillips

    Plus 1!!

  161. one of those who see

    Hi John,
    I have a friend who is an auditor, knows about the Independent Field, but has decided – at least for now – to remain in the Church. Her reason – no qual. Another friend suggested to me that this Auditor go and be a Qual terminal in the Independent Field. Good answer, right!? I mean, I know that some people are Auditing, some C/Sing. Mary Freeman is a Ethics Terminal. If something isn’t going well with a P/C couldn’t the C/s write a Cram and other Auditors and Supervisors help with the cramming needed. I think that is already happening to a degree, right? People working together, wearing the hats needed to deliver standard tech.

  162. It’s in Vol 10, titled the Code of Honor, 18 Feb 52. I’ ve got it if you need it.

  163. Tony DePhillips

    It’s like brain cancer. The brain is being eaten up and the body keeps moving around doing weird shit.

  164. Much good advice given… and anyone who has tried to run a “one-man-org” will tell you.. It’s kinda like being your own attorney… or operating on yourself??? ….. it is no piece of cake… not for a great auditor or a great C/S..and yes…. for sure it is not as much FUN either!…

  165. Barney Rubble


    I concur and agree perfectly stated.

  166. John Nunez-Great quote. Debbie has “almost” come out. Ron talks about that this is an ALMOST universe. It really is a Q&A-out of the admin dix-“Q and A is simply postulate aberration. Aberration is non-straight line by definition. People who can’t get things done are simply Qing and Aing with people and life.”
    Once you get on the road to truth, you gotta keep going. She needs the Indie field. Of course, who doesn’t?

  167. I have difficulty believing the real John Nunez would have written the above, so I have messaged the one I have friended on Facebook to ask about it.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  168. John,
    No, LRH would not spit for that one. I do understand the emotions run high concerning the observation of the present church’s state.

    It is pretty hard to kill a 3D. We are witness to that. How it executes its purposes, how it achieves its goals, whether what WAS the church at one point, is the one there now or is to be some other manifestation is pretty much up to us, and the laws as applied to Non -Profit Corporations in California.

    LRH himself, as stated in the Trust Instruments that established CST, makes no bones about cutting off at the head, tail and in between ANY CHURCH of Scientology if it isn’t Scientology any longer.

    There is no Church as I knew it. There is an SP group, run by a malevolent being, that is a reversed, inverted corruption of the former Church.

  169. Can someone give a GOOD reason to be under the radar or quietly sitting on the fence?
    – Roberto Sánchez Núñez

    Hello Roberto,
    I’ll try.

    Within the last three days I had a friend of mine, who opened his eyes.
    His tone level and body changed within minutes, after the first time he finally loughed freely about the stupidity of David MissedTheBridge (we were watching his TV interview of 1993).
    The only GOOD reason to stay under radar, as I see (and do) is to prepare as many people as you can to leave with you.
    We have families, too.
    Communication – the universal solvent.

    One thing I don’t do, I don’t use long distance communication (phone) and written communication.
    I need to have the guy in my space in order to know how much truth he can have at once. It’s one by one.

    I really appreciate what you guys are doing.

  170. Cindy Pinsonnault


  171. Mr. F,
    Ummm, “third party blame game bullshit” means something significant I can tell.

    And what is that?

    (Rhetorically, do you really think John is incapable of coming to his own conclusions? )

  172. Never regret yesterday-life is in you today and you make your tomorrow. Boy, am I having fun applying that one!

  173. Colorado is definitely rocking-I know many there.

  174. How do you know LRH spits on “you?”Speak for yourself-what a dumb thing to say.

  175. Talking of OTs, no one tops Bugs Bunny. (Or Mel Blanc the voice of all those great Warner Bros. cartoons.)

  176. I concur with Marty and Mike that the church is “dead”.
    My take on this is that a truer Scientology movement is taking place, whatever label one wants to give it, this movement is far more honest, far more real, far more close to the original stated goals of LRH, that comparison with corporate Church, is an exercise in futility.
    If someone does not like saying “dead” may I suggest ” beyond repair”…?
    To me Corporate Church IS dead. What’s left is a conglomerate of bacteria eating up on their own corpse. It might take a while for it to dissolve, but still….

  177. Joe Pendleton

    Christie, you are a VERY big being and may I say that you exemplify the qualities of courage and integrity that I have always admired most.

  178. Gary Morehead a.k.a Jackson


    You said it Sista…

    “It’s for real, and it’s unconditional.”

    Unconditional — Jackson

  179. Exactly. All the money stolen from parishioners for the Super Power building should have gone to planetary dissemination instead of gilded mausoleums. LRH spelled it out clearly in HCOPL Planetary Dissemination.

  180. These are pertinent and brilliant questions and points to help someone to find out where he/she is. I will use them. Thanks Greta.

  181. Completely Enraged

    I too feel betrayed. Unlike so many of you that were “insiders” and privy to the bullshit, I was just a public Scientologist, working my ass off for years and years to pay for services, working 2 jobs and going on course and getting auditing in what little time I had for that and never questioning that the Church staffs would act with integrity, good judgment and in my best interests. It has been tremendously upsetting, embarrassing and humiliating to read all these revelations and to find out just how much was hidden from me and every public Scientologist I know. So perhaps you could keep that in mind when you start judging someone like me for staying “under the radar.” Its not “under the radar,” its over $100,000 of debt for services that turn out to be altered and messed up. It’s working long hours to pay it off. Its finding a way to exit safely from a Church that clearly will think nothing of destroying my income, family, relationships, and repute. I’ve paid and paid and paid to support this Church and this group, worked my heart out, defended it time and time again only to find that I have egg all over my face, the naysayers in my family and amongst my friends were 100% correct and I am the idiot, I am the dupe. Perhaps I will feel differently about all this when my rage subsides, but for now I am going to apply the danger formula and that means handle the situation and any danger in it. That includes an exit strategy, finding new work, protecting my interests and finding ways to get my friends and family out in ways that will circumvent the disastrous consequences of disconnection as the Church lowers the boom to staunch its wounds. Make no mistake about it, I am not on the fence. But neither will I once again lay down my life for this group – I will first set up my life so that when I do decide come out from under the radar I can act without being slammed into the ground by the vicious behavior of the Church. And believe me, that day is coming. And when it does, it will be no holds barred and good luck to OSA on stopping me.

  182. Pat and Carol-+1000000

  183. Random-So funny!!!!!

  184. Christie-Its the way i duped his post too.

  185. It’s hard to confront that the church of scientology is dead.
    And it’s not the acceptable truth for John, I understand that.
    The tech works. Organizations can be restored.

    John, the church is dead. Only the SP wants to get rid of the Org. That’s true.
    But – even if Marty says that – David Miscavige implemented the most sophisticated machineries to bring the spirit down and make the delivery of the tech imposible.
    Judge by products.
    I agree with you, that the church may be restored. They would need to change lots of things as the field of delivery changed. As did the world around the church.
    But for now, the church (its spirit, duplication, delivery) is dead. It is the Church of Reversed Scientology.

    Ron wouldn’t spit on Marty.
    Read “The reason for Orgs” and communicate again.

  186. Anyone who wishes to see a non-COS example of command intention should quickly review the history of the American Communist party which closed out the cold war under Gus Hall. To simplify matters, every time their was an international scandal (the USSR invading Hungary or czechoslovakia, party members with any integrity, would resign. The residue which was left behind was comprised of 1) party members who thought the USSR could do no wrong and who would follow any order. 2) FBI spies including at one time the #2 member of the American Party.

    This ossification worked from top down and bottom up. 1) The leadership was unwilling to deviate at all from the Moscow party line. 2) They were also unwilling to get rid of leaders like Gus Hall who were ineffectual, but yet had Moscow’s blessing. The last attempt to reform the American party from within before the end of the cold war, came from Earl Browder who attempted to turn the party into an association as so to more effectively integrate it into American political life. Once the rank and file membership received word that this was not an approved “line” Browder was ejected from the party.

    If DM dropped dead tomarrow, the most ruthless of the remaining staff at the international headquarters would fight amongst themselves to succeed him and there would be little difference in their methods for asserting top down control over the COS. Similarly, the remaining active membership of the COS who had not yet left, would expect if not depend and rely upon such top down explotation since they have been conditioned over many years to expect such treatment as normal. While the public can change in their blind allegance they are more likely to do so outside the present COS structure for example in the indie movement or freezone, rather then under the old system which will reinforce their conditioned responses. So Marty and Mike are correct, don’t try to reform the organization from within, construct a new more flexable association outside of the COS structure which does not have its bad habits. Think of it as moving to a Baptist structure rather than a Catholic heirachy hI

  187. Of course the Church of Scientology as a religious concept by LRH is not “dead”, but the existing organization and the manifestation of it is, mainly because what I laid out above.

    Couldn’t agree with you more.

  188. The expression “under the radar” describes an apparency that relates to people in very different conditions. I feel, in order to deal with each person successfully it would be a good idea to identify, differentiate and deal with them accordingly.
    As far as I can see, there are
    a) the ones who don’t look, live in their own world, who have never noticed any outpoint etc., the “unaware”
    b) the ones who do not dare to look or take on a position, the “impartials”
    c) the ones who have started to look and have encountered suppression and don’t dare to look much less to do anything.
    d) the ones who have looked to some degree, but do not dare to decide or have run into some stop in the process of deciding. the ones in doubt.
    e) the ones who feel that they have to defend “their” group against something else or want to destroy some imagined enemy.
    f) the ones who feel there is hope in doing corrections internally.
    g) the ones who have been destroyed by misapplication or bad tech and are on the run now, never to be in trouble gain. The try to withdraw from that dynamic.
    h) the ones that have looked and confronted the situation but found it to be a good use of their resources (comm lines, etc.) to operate within the “system” in order to help other people to look as well and get the help L. Ron Hubbard had intended back into practical application.
    There may be more types. Some of them could be considered PTS. Once identified what you are dealing with, each type has its own specific approach. It is like running rudiments. You better do not take one for the other or try to rum them as one generality. Find out what it is and then deal with THAT. This will be successful.

  189. Thanks for you story.
    Mostly appreciated!

  190. Phil Bruemmer

    ..” By definition, anyone left in the C of S is card carrying David Miscavige brown-noser who worships at the altar of “COB.” the false data concerning Ethics, Tech and Admin has permeated every nook and cranny of the organization…”
    It’s true for me.
    I’ve seen it.
    Phil Bruemmer

  191. Marty,
    I completely agree with you. The current church of Scientology under David Miscavige is completely DEAD. As a Power FSM and closely involved with the church and my selectees for 13 years, based on my personal experience, none of my selectees, including myself were getting standard LRH. Yes, there were post titles, such as Qual, Ethics officer and so on, but they were not really wearing their hats. As a result, I had unsatisfied selectees whom I had to constantly fight for and write KRs on those terminals who were not applying LRH. Most of the staff were off post, either selling books to public or regging them for IAS.
    I have been out since Nov 2008, still wearing my hat as an FSM, with the help of standard auditors such as yourself (Marty) and Ingrid I have seen amazing products, happy PCs standardly moving up the bridge, than the church of Miscavige ever was/is able to produce. The church is truly DEAD!

  192. Perfect, Chris! Perfect.

  193. WOW!!! Simply stated and straight to the point. Very, very powerful observation and suggestion. “The only power they have is the power to restimulate…” that was an “ah ha moment for me, as Oprah would say! Thanks for the common sense insight!!! Awesome.

  194. Off the fence

    Are you drunk tonight John? Or is that really you.
    So unlike you to create this kind of enturbulence.
    If it is you, and you’re drunk, you owe Marty an apology.

  195. Speaking of Oprah, has anyone tried to bring this whole situation to HER attention??? I mean I know she is good friends with Tom and John, etc. but Oprah is a freedom fighter. She has built an empire on shining the light of truth on many situations in life and appealing to man’s intrinsic goodness to figure out what they observe… Seriously – she’s got her own entire network now – OWN – the Oprah Winfrey Network…I wonder…

  196. +1 Chris!
    I hear you and agree with you 100%. I too have weathered the storm of holding my integrity and refusing to be muzzled. It is the only way.
    I was PTS. I am no longer.
    Stand strong. Look them in the eye. Say it like it is. Truth wins every time. The kool-aid drinkers slink back into their holes.
    Life is good. And now I work to help others do the same and experience the gains that ARE possible with standard Scientology.
    And I stand next to you Chris, looking David Miscavie in the eye, being there comfortably and telling him what I think.
    You are right — he can’t confront Indi’s.
    Not one little bit.

  197. Totally agreed Ron! Totally, totally agreed!

  198. Try this for a starter:

  199. I had to read here some not so nice comments. Looks like that some cannot grant beingness to those that are under the radar. A big button so to speak. My lifes lession had been, never listen to those that demand something from me as usually they follow their interests and not mine. My lifes motto is „my will happens“. To state it different would be a lie. Even if others say, that this is bad and you cannot say this. Group comes first blabla. This does not mean that I treat others bad. This only means that my interests and my decisions count and come first. Is this honest enough?

  200. +10 x ten!

  201. There are certainly HCO and Qual trained Indi’s who can service you. Get your comm lines out John.

  202. This was supposed to be in response to John’s comment that there is no HCO, no Qual and that it is “hard to deliver standard tech”.

  203. Just got an email today from a radar-flyer good friend:


    Judging from the Scientology mail I receive,, DM is pulling out all stops
    getting PR pieces out. Today a big color piece with a DVD enclosed. I
    think I get at least 3 pieces of Sci mail a day.

    I may have a slightly different opinion of what I hope will happen re
    Scientology. I want the church to survive intact, I just want DM gone,
    all his assets returned to the church, and all his out tech corrected.
    The orgs were once a fun place to be. Lots of theta and
    lightheartedness. No more.

    Here is my reply:

    Interesting about all the increased promo.

    I understand your feeling about wanting to preserve the Church. If it were possible, I would wish it so, too.

    My wife and I were staff for so long (in my case, since ’71 – in hers, since ’80) that we have a lot of R on how deeply ingrained the false data and what is “expected” on how to treat people had become.

    Without each individual practitioner having gone through the agonizing, soul-searching Conditions formulas regarding the monster the Church has become, on his own determinism, and having decompressed from the conditioning and thought-stopping we have all been subjected to for especially the last 30 years – I don’t really think the Church could reform in any meaningful way.

    Sure, it would be great if David Miscavige suddenly decamped to Bulgravia where he could bribe the police, but do you really think his minions, who have been doing his bidding, and worse, gone thoroughly into his valence – would suddenly “see the light” and reform utterly?

    Yes, a general amnesty for all those declared would be wonderful, and you could have “false data stripping” campaigns galore to try to rid the place of its stink. But it would be like trying to revive a smelly corpse. The current orgs are NOT Real Scientology. They are NOT the technology.

    And as Mr. Rinder said earlier in these comments, referring to LRH’s quote, “when you take out an SP, you have to take out every one of their connections.”

    So, many of us have concluded that the most vital target is to Deliver the technology as it was originally developed, and as we know works and works really well, when properly applied. This is being done on a bypass of the existing Churches, as they have failed utterly to uphold the standard. Many have fought hard to reform it from within, and been shot down in flames, and were left with no choice but to leave, and seek TRUE friends elsewhere.

    Regarding the support, ARC and fellowship that we have all missed, especially from orgs as we knew them in the ’70s and early 80’s – well- that is being recreated now in the Independent Field and the Freezone. Currently, for example, the Hellen Chen academy in LA is making more auditors and Clears than LA Org does, and has a rousing and high-toned graduation every week that would bring tears to your eyes. See:

    … and there are many other groups like this forming and delivering daily.

    The Church (as we knew and loved it) is dead in my opinion. Long live Real Scientology and those who practice it to help others, as it was intended. That’s where our true friends are, today.

    Love, Randy

  204. Hello Christie

    What I duplicated from this posting might be different than some, but I did not get that Marty was trying to blame or make wrong or push people who are “under the radar” to come out.

    See it like you. There was no make wrong in his comm.

    And I can tell you, in some places you even don’t know where to go next.
    For many on-line Scientologists the Org is the stable datum. So even when you realize, that the Spirit of the Church of Scientology is dead, where to go to get standard tech? I am sure it is easier in the US then it is in EU.
    The “market” is intransparent. FreeZone, “Ron’s Org”, some Independents.
    The Awarness rises and many have a “need of change” right now.
    “Any thing, is better than no thing”, but what is needed and wanted IS standard tech.

  205. I haven’t really shared my Debbie Cook analysis here yet and after reading all these comments I wanted to share my perception on what Debbie did.
    Maybe I’m naive, maybe I’m overly optimistic or maybe I am onto something. Only Debbie really knows-maybe someday she’ll share the truth with us… Anyway… I saw Debbie’s stance on “being in good standing”, “only communicating with others in good standing” and wanting to “fix things from the inside” (I’m paraphrasing) as done strategically for very specific purposes. I want to believe that Debbie is intelligent enough to know that if she stated it any other way- no one on the inside would listen to her or consider ANYTHING she had to say. There was no other way to play that hand and she was smart enough to know it. Debbie must have signed her life away in non-disclosures and gag-orders and confidentiality agreements when she left, and it is reported she was given hush money which she desperately needed for her medical situation. I don’t see how she could have played it any other way with any traction. Her one shot was to strike as HUGE of a blow with as much impact as possible before the axe swung back in the other direction. I like to think that she KNOWS the church can never be fixed from within but she was smart enough to sacrifice looking stupid and naive to us if it meant impinging on such a major level in one fell swoop. I really feel she sacrificed herself and her reputation to strike this blow. I can’t bring myself to believe that she is too oblivious to see the obvious after all that she has been through.
    Like I said, maybe I’m just too romantic, but I want to believe that my romantic take on this is true and that Debbie is smarter and more strategic and calculating than any of us realize… And if that is the case, and Marty is right- that she had no idea how hard they would hit her after the fact- than she is by definition – a hero. Her integrity was more important than her reputation or her immediate life. If I am right, and I hope I am, I look forward to the day when we can celebrate the stance she took.

  206. He [Marty] was stating the facts with regards to Debbie and that he hopes she will choose the TRUTH over compromise in the end and when it counts.

    Yes, right.
    I hope I was right, when I said before, that Debbie knew that she has only this one move on the chessboard. If she didn’t know what will happen next and all this was a surprise to her… phew… no. I doubt it.
    But even if she would go back and got plugged to the Kool-Aid-Silo… she made the move. DM was debunked for what he is.

  207. Well said!

  208. Raul I’m sooooo sorry – been meaning to catch up on my email – I did get it but I’ve got a back-log (same to the radar flyers who have inundated me with more delicious email addresses for Debbie’s letter)
    I’ll get back to everyone over the weekend xxx

  209. Thanks – that saves me another email 😀

  210. This is a very interesting discussion. Looks like we are having lots of new people here and we are recycling a subject that we already discussed 18 months ago.
    But this time is clearer and faster, so we made quite some progress. I

    I can fully agree with the thought that the Church of Scientology as envisioned by L. Ron Hubbard is dead.
    Nobody has any special rights on Scientology. It belongs to mankind and the universe.
    Each individual is aloud to use it and doesn’t need any OK from anyone !

    “The work was free, keep it so” LRH

  211. John spit at whomever you disagree with by all means – spit at me too because after 3 years of PERSONAL OBSERVATION I have come to the same conclusion as Marty. You have a right to your opinion.
    However – do your own spitting; take ownership of it and don’t presume to speak for LRH!

  212. I see two distinct viewpoints here and I’m sorry to say but one appears to be routed in genuine independent thought; the other, not so much. Church-think is evidently harder to run out than we think.
    ‘What would LRH do?’ – IMHO this is a thought stopper of magnitude. As Raul reiterated, this is a system designed to make one gradually more self-determined. I think what we are looking for is more along the lines of, ‘using the best of what LRH provided us, what can WE do!’
    a) How can we possibly know what LRH would do, that is just supposition.
    b) He lived in a time so different to now and was faced with challenges quite different to what we face now.
    c) Other than from an experience;what works /what doesn’t point of view, how is what he would do relevant anymore? WE have inherited the subject, he is not here to hold anyone’s hand. It is ours now and I think that means taking full responsibility for what we do with it from here on out.

    Anything else is an insult to the man’s memory.

    (I have come through too much confusion and personal hell to have my spiritual path turned into a dogma once more. NEVER AGAIN!)

    (end of rant)

  213. LDW
    I’m tracking with you.

  214. Absolutely agree with you Rachel. The whole thing is so bizarre and so many aspects just didn’t make sense to me.

    I still think it’s a stalking horse situation. Whether or not this was the intention, I don’t know, but the effect has been that of running interference and causing people to declare allegiances.

    Look at the Roman Empire where Antony, a political master, being blocked by Brutus and Cassius in the way, joins Octavius and Lepidus to defeat them, and subsequently uses Lepidus as, ‘property.’

    Old political trick. Not anything new.

  215. I’ve still gotten a few out Lady Min but people have to want to save themselves and the brain-dead responses from half-dead thetans gets old for me too.
    These days I’d almost rather pick up a sign and go picket with Anonymous to protect any unsuspecting public from getting into the trap in the first place.

  216. TroubleShooter

    On one hand I completely understand your viewpoint Roberto. If everyone who make that public declaration it could indeed create a whole new level of effects on changing the david miscavige cofs where verbal tech, arbitraries and tech/admin degrades originated and are being enforced. The environment where threats, duress, disconnection and livelihoods are used to manipulate people could be cleaned up if enough say NO MORE. It’s taken me since Jun 23, 2009 to get to the point I am so far in my own journey out of the david miscavige trap and I’m still not done. I have however been on a plan for over two years to get out from under the yoke of his dictatorship. Though I may be taking too long in some peoples estimations, yours for example, I have been doing something that isn’t allowed in the church and that is to make decisions based on the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics as determined by ME the ED of my org board when using ethics tech which LRH said was a personal thing. To me that meant between me and me, not me and whoever was in charge of running my ethics cycle and already had their own template on what my conditions would say if I was “moving UP the conditions”.

    I’m not being critical of you here Roberto for asking the above question or anyone else who feels held back or maybe even betrayed to some extent by those NOT coming out publically yet. I TOO believe that the change will occur faster if everyone speaks OUT publically. What I really want you to feel is that there is very real frustration and effort being expended by many under the radar to keep it together. I don’t endorse further sacrifice of the first and second dynamics, sacrifice of jobs, incomes and homes, upheaval of families and careers in the name of Scientology. If Scientology is going to work it has to be applied as LRH intended it and that is in a way that brings the dynamics up from where they are. I am not one who believes any longer that there is nothing in life more important than Scientology. That idea was not the one I gained in my training. It was however the viewpoint that was shoved down my goddamned throat as I sacrificed and sacrificed and sacrificed.

    That’s not said to express any blame to anyone else for what I sacrificed. But you can take this to the bank – you won’t get people off the fence or out from under the radar by being critical of them or stirring up a clique-like viewpoint about them. It’s too much the same harmonic that cob’s David Miscavige mob has done.

    Be patient, lead by example, share wins of doing your own Bridges outside the implant station, make it real to others that the Bridge IS out here. Encourage others to continue on their journeys out of cob’s mob cofs david miscavige. To those under the radar or one the fence, make career changes if necessary, move the family away, do your homework on how to move yourself out of the cob mob david miscavige and take your dynamics up IF you believe you cannot be a part of keeping cob working technology. I for one don’t expect anyone to jump from one frying pan and into another. You, we ALL must do what we feel in our hearts must be done with integrity and honor in tact. Do it as quickly as you can but be certain. The KRC triangle applies.


  217. Another problem I would like to discuss here. How can I fully get out of this 30 years of conditioning by the Church of Scientology that I see downtone, out-ethics wogs and dbs all over the place ?
    An example:
    A junior of mine, which I thought was quite uptone, suddenly was very bi’s, backflashing, making faults in his work and wasn’t anymore able to confront me. I thought over the problem for about 10 days and was quite worried, She had phenomena’s of m/ws, out-ethics etc…
    I was 100% sure I’d to do an ethics Interview and find out what her out-ethics is, be a little bit mean to her and ask that she gets her ethics in etc….I was thinking it over and over, imaging what her out-ethics could be; has she stolen some money? Is she nattering behind my back ? Do I have to threaten her with a dismissal if she doesn’t change her behavior?
    Finally, I decided to not do an Ethic’s interview but just ask her this question:
    What do I do wrong as your senior that you’re aren’t any more so enthusiastic in your work ?
    I was very surprised about her answer. She told me she got some personal problems in her life, had recently a loss, is looking for answers about life and is worried about why people die and none of her friends can give any answer to her questions.
    She had heavy blowdowns while itsaing her problems. Her face changed and she beamed like a Christmas tree. I asked her if she would like to have some help and she meant “YES definitively”. So I routed her to my wife that is a class VI in training (since 20 Years).
    At the end I just asked myself “on what planet have I been living the last 30 years to be so certain that I live in a dangerous environment ”?.
    Finally it is about time we all wake up, get out of those delusions we were conditioned about and say “Hello World” and get the job done. I didn’t know it is so easy !

  218. TroubleShooter

    “I understand that fence sitting is may be rooted in some real family situations and survival problems that take precedent over personal integrity, honesty and decency. ”

    MP this is so judgmental that I have to ask you do you really think it’s going to help anyone off the fence? Do you not grant that this matter is a confusing one? Did you just wake up one day and post on the internet that you are disconnecting from cob’s mob? Did you so easily and quickly find out that you COULD do your Bridge outside of cob’s mob david miscavige? were you able to shed the implanted idea that there is no such thing as standard tech outside the cofs therefore to leave cob’s mob meant no more Bridge for you?

    Let them travel as they need to in order to find the way. Don’t tell people that their personal integrity is wrong – it’s THEIR integrity which is why the word personal precedes it. You want those who have truly evaluated the scene right? I do!

    What I see being built up in the field of Scientology outside of cob’s mob cofs david miscavige is the army of true keepers of Scientology. Here’s a bit of my concept to share with you – “Many have burned, few have risen.”
    Be welcoming to those who do, not critical of them because they took too long…


  219. Roberto
    I know what you’ve been through and I get where you’re coming from.
    Thank you for what you have done and the sacrifices you had to make to get here.
    Give people some time to get through what they need to confront in their own lives – I’m sure they will be as fierce and loyal a friend as you are once they are free to be so.

  220. I agree.
    And perhaps this whole process has all been part of moving on up a little higher – being responsible for our own condition and erasing the need for idols as a part of the human condition.
    That’s how I see it anyway.

  221. David Miscavige was as much a part of our own creation as anyone else’s. ‘Idols’ need worshippers and ‘leaders’ need followers. I think we all contributed to feeding the monster at some point in our lives.
    Sucks to be responsible 😦 LOL

  222. ‘like’

  223. +!
    Marty truth isn’t always easy to swallow but it is refreshing.

  224. If Debbie “needs help” it is with LRH references, and just going the whole hog on internal “Cramming” of Miscavige.

    Her telling people to stop supporting Scientology off policy fund-raising and concentrate on their 1D Bridge movement, I’d agree is not enough.

    Internally, what no one has the balls to do, is the LRH handling clearly in my opinion the only “tech” for how to handle the lonely top leader problem.

    Miscavige seemingly made someone sitting him down and auditing him of his transgressions, he’s seemingly long since made that an impossibility, or seemingly so to everyone who has lived around him, but the LRH reference (“Individuation” tape of 1959), is the only option.

    Ray Mitoff or Wilhere should be the ones, although they’ve long since lost any altitude over Miscavige to put him in session.

    Otto Roos, when he got the Apollo tech people to FES and try to fix up LRH’s case, ran into a lot of HE & R and backlash. Probably easier to deal with LRH, than it’s now become to deal with Miscavige.

    But the long since forgotten and seemingly impossible reference to apply, is STILL the “Individuation” tape, if one thinks of trying to “salvage” Miscavige.

    I think the long game of just causing more and more defections is the safest simplest “solution” but we’re all gonna die of old age and what will really likely play out, is two Scientologies. Freezone/independent and official. Official Scientology’s still got all the money.

    I think we’re just gonna have to wait for Miscavige to die of natural causes, like lung cancer, or something.

    And then all you former higher up vets and others wanting to do some wholesale reform, somehow help manage the major reform in the official movement that has long been needed.

    OSA intrigue BS I think is best dealt with by constantly feeding anti DM messages to the OSA spy people. DM reacts to his image, so trash his image, point by point.

    Debbie should just lay out MORE LRH references for why DM is doing bad as leader, and the OSA spies will have to report the LRH references and points over and over of what DM is violating, back to DM.

    Pushing DM’s off sourceness, point by point, over and over, showing how he’s a bad Scientology leader, and feeding that to the spies, over and over, erodes DM!

    Push source, point by point, showing DM’s off policy-ness, IS an overall important thing and Debbie should just keep doing that! Minimally.


  225. Sophie knowingly and willingly walked to the guillotine head held high. I have the utmost respect and love for her.

  226. And you’re right. Debbie did much but her actions pale in comparison to those of Sophie and the other members of the White Rose.

  227. George M. White


  228. And as a tribute to them all – an excerpt from one of the last letters of Hans Scholl
    [to ROSE NAGELE] Munich – February 12, 2943
    “… Nowadays I have to be the way I am. I’m remote from you, both outwardly and inwardly, but never estranged. Never has my respect for your purity of heart been greater than it is now, when life has become an ever-present danger. But because the danger is of my own choosing, I must head for my chosen destination freely and without any ties. I’ve gone astray many times, I know. Chasms yawn and darkest night envelops my questing heart, but I press on regardless. As Claudel so splendidly puts it: la vie, c’est one grande adventure vets la lumiére” (Life is a great adventure toward the light)….”

  229. What a testimonial to integrity.

  230. ” If you are inclined to take a stand, then contact those who will unequivocally, and competently, have your back – Independent Scientologists.”

    I agree, until you have direct experience of how devious the infiltrations can be you would NEVER believe it. It flies against all logic of humanity.
    If someone appears from nowhere and appears too good to be true , they often are.
    Anyone who wants to musch personal knowledge , who is constantly ‘gently probing’ , no matter how close or reliable they may feel is to be kept at arms length, not avoided, just beaware of them!!
    Having said that there are some truely good genuine people out there!!

  231. George M. White

    You speak truth.

  232. We could do that or we could refuse to sink to the same debased levels as DM and his own (rather sick) cartoonist – although it is no-doubt very tempting.
    Besides, Miscavige is taking care of destroying his own credibility very nicely all by himself.

  233. George M. White

    From the heart and well-written. Thanks.

  234. At the risk of evaluating I don’t think Debbie has made it out of Confusion yet. But that’s just my opinion.

  235. No offense – but I don’t think anyone here is looking for your acceptance or approval of them.
    Stay under the radar, don’t stay under the radar. No skin off my nose.

  236. George M. White

    Mr. Miscavige took the grand gamble when he changed the OT levels to suit his own interpretation in the 1990’s. He lost the game. There can thus be no progress in his personalized environment.

  237. Just my own take:
    I stayed under the radar for 6 months during which time I worked diligently to ensure that my children would suffer as little as possible from the fall-out that I knew would hit me once I decided to take action. I also set up my comm lines so that I would be in a position to be able to defend myself and protect my family from the inevitable attacks I knew would follow from Miscavige and company.
    Nothing wrong with that but as I Q&A’d with whether I was ‘ready’ I took a look at a quote on Steve Hall’s blog:
    “There is a time when silence becomes betrayal”
    I knew that I had reached that point.

  238. TroubleShooter

    Christ John, do you think you might want to ensure that you understand what’s meant by “dead” for sure as it’s being said before you go any further here? I think you have much to contribute to the movement and with your training and experience you know how to resolve a difference man. What do you say?

  239. Axiom,
    I apologize for not having the exact quote but, if you see below, WindWalker has been so kind as to find it and print it here.
    Thanks, WindWalker!!

  240. Scott,
    Oh my gosh!! That’s the whole thing! Thanks!!

  241. “Every person that contacted her since her email has been identified and contacted and handled by the corporate church – one way or the other.”
    Right, and some of them handled the corporate church handlers. One way or the other it will backflash.

  242. I will reply to you.

    After I left the SO I lost an entire year of memory. AN ENTIRE YEAR! I have very vague recollection of where I was and what I was doing. This “swiss cheese memory” as I call it, has persisted and affected my memory since then.

    I have tried since then to get back on lines to get it handled and have met the brick wall so many others have. The frustration and hopelessness intensified every time I tried.

    The ONLY successful auditing that I got was a field marriage handling and a metered assist that handled a debilitating physical condition. Thankfully I had a decent field auditor that in five minutes helped me spot the incident that had not been handled on lines, even at Flag, that had crippled me for seven years.

    I did an exam for last lifetime Clear in 1991and have time after time been put back, and back, and back onto the Bridge with that wonderful certainty crushing message from the C/S, “Thank you for your origination, but there is more you need to do on the Bridge.” I was even told by my auditor that I should NOT have read the Bulletin where LRH described what happens next when someone originates Clear. (My post at the time demanded I read it for an outer org volunteer, but what did she care about that?)

    I am not tech trained past reading the Dianetics book in 1984. SS2 and Exec Status 1, but I have never been fully hatted. Oh, I wrote, and got approved, the checksheet for my SO post, but had barely started on it when a period of heavy ethics was started at the Pac Base and I was off of that and never got back onto it. This lifetime I’ve done Purif, forced to do Objectives and the Scn DRD and am mid-KTL after a bout with pneumonia blew me off of it (for good reason since I had originated Clear BEFORE the order came down that all staff be put on the KTL lineup without deviation)

    That was all just to frame the fact that I feel like my behind is hanging out here in the breeze without any grounding in the tech to help me feel like I have a leg to stand on. I will have to continue the on-post hatting that I’ve always had to do. (Gods, I miss SIR* – lol!)

    But to answer your question, I don’t feel ready to take the drek** that may come my way – not yet. I have worked very hard, alone much of the time, to get myself back into present time and not succumb to hate.

    No-one has the right to ask me to experience “coming out” until I’m ready. I don’t know, perhaps necessity level will eventually demand it before I’m ready, but I do hope not.

    * SIR was an indexing system used by some SO (if I’m not wrong in what I remember, you had to have a certain post and/or clearances) to search LRH references by keyword. To my view it was similar to today’s Internet search engines.
    ** drek –

  243. Christie – great post. And thank you for all what you are doing!!!

    “Before being declared the church had my parents call me and ask me to come back. They said if I saw OSA and sorted things out everything would be fine. I could keep my family, etc.”

    This is BLACKMAIL!!!

    “You can keep your family” …… and what else??? You can keep your eternity, your friends, your work, your money – you can keep your LIFE… (and we won´t harass you or “make your life a living hell”…??? Oh,… how “generous” to let one decide. Who are you to command over peoples whole lives??? Who are you to give the licence to live on??? GOD ??? Last Judgment??? And what is the price? This reminds me at the old stories where the devil is bargain over the price for selling one´s soul. And it is typically of suppressive dictatorships and suppressives to get people to shut up and to do what is commanded… or else.


    TONE 0 SOCIETY, a society governed by the mystery and superstition of some mystic body.
    TONE 1 SOCIETY, a society managed and dictated to by the whims of one man or a few men.
    TONE 2 SOCIETY, a society hindered by arbitrary restrictions and oppressive laws.
    TONE 4 SOCIETY, a free society, working in complete cooperation toward common goals; any Golden Age is a tone 4.

  244. TroubleShooter

    + 10,000

  245. Here’s what I found. Don’t know if it helps, did somewhat for me 🙂

    brimborion (plural brimborions)
    (obsolete) A useless or valueless object

  246. Perfect comment madam.

  247. The Economist,

    You’ll find lots of viewpoints here. That’s what makes the world go round. Thank goodness we don’t all think alike!

    A motley crew but a most caring bunch, IMO.

  248. That’s cool – whenever you have time.

  249. Yes, Christi, That’s how I took it, too. I feel sorry for your family. They are missing out on such a kind, sincere and caring soul! Maybe their havingness isn’t up to having someone like you in their lives. 🙂

  250. Mariella,

    Thanks for this. My FSM told me to just be quiet. You are clearly a person who truly cares about others.

  251. Vox Clamantis in Deserto

    Hear Hear!!!

  252. Thanks Scott – been looking for this one. Would you happen to have the full transcript of the entire lecture?

  253. Helo TroubleShooter.
    I fully agree with you. This is a personal thing.
    And it’s about survival of oneself and others.

  254. I’d never seen that before. How cool. Whoever did the cover cartoon is very good!

  255. John, Your attack is out of line. Go chill. You are in Marty’s living room here with his blog. Agree or disagree, please respect.

  256. Lady Min and all others on this blog,

    I don’t speak for Mike (or Marty) as they are perfectly capable of doing so themselves, but it is Marty’s blog after all and so he is entitled to say what he wants, and I think so is Mike, being the author of many posts himself.

    I do want to point out however, that some of these comments may seem harsh when viewed against itself, but when viewed against two years of information – all available on this blog – these comments take on a different light.

    Though I can’t interpret Mike, I dare say that I don’t think he has some peculiar dislike towards the people on the inside but there is a certain limit to how much effort you put out to make a chance.

    LRH states, “Don’t use a broken line.” He’s not saying this because he is mean. He is saying this because trying to use a broken line results in nothing, with tons of effort wasted. Putting a bunch of effort on those on the inside is from my own experience a waste of effort.

    There is a reason why people stay, even for 30+ years. Many of those who were working directly with COB experienced such absurdity that they finally left one way or the other, but they were put through EXTREMES. Only maybe 1 out of 50 works directly with COB for a longer time on that base. The other 49 never go through the same personal experiences and they have been reduced to a mindset which demands that they don’t look, they don’t think – they just obey, and only a cataclysm would wake them up.

    There are probably a few exceptions, but it would be much more worthwhile to enlighten the rest of the world who still has the ability to reason, compare, judge and think for themselves. By doing so, the current Church will crumble one way or the other, and those on the inside will either go down with it, or finally wake up.

    I hope, and I know Mike does too, that they will wake up, but now is not the time to put effort in that direction. We as Indies are not a Sympathy Charity, but with the limited resources we have we put our energies where they yield result.

    Nor is this the time to dispute a bunch of semantics on this blog because of varying views. You are all entitled to your views. Nobody is telling you what you should think, but as is the nature of a blog, it reflect the views of the authors and comments are mostly welcome.

    It seems clear to me that 97% of everyone here agrees that Scientology correctly applied has workability, that the current Church under David Miscavige is corrupt and that Scientology needs to continue to be applied so as to improve conditions of individual people and the society itself.

    Let’s concentrate on the things we agree on, and leave the political and organizational aspects to some other forum as any potential organizational ideas should not be gone on this blog for several obvious reasons – one being stupidity and the other being the fact that a group discussion on policy/politics/organizational ideas will always be a mess.

    Thanks for listening, Raul

  257. martyrathbun09

    Nice rant PJ.

  258. martyrathbun09

    Just like a corporate Scientologist. Beat your chest while hiding behind a mock up of Ron. Weakling cowards through and through.

  259. well said

  260. martyrathbun09

    She is far more shrewd and calculating than you can imagine.

  261. Thanks Raul. You have a way with words and a keen intellect. Glad you are here with us.

  262. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the history lesson. I think you are right as far as where C of S is headed – and furthermore the system is hardwired toward no other possible direction. Will explain it all with decades of facts to back it up hopefully in the near future.

  263. Thanks Mike, I’m glad we have Marty’s blog, with your abundant contributions!

  264. Can I come work for you?

  265. Ditto again.

  266. Thank you.

    “I don’t endorse further sacrifice of the first and second dynamics, sacrifice of jobs, incomes and homes, upheaval of families and careers in the name of Scientology. If Scientology is going to work it has to be applied as LRH intended it and that is in a way that brings the dynamics up from where they are. I am not one who believes any longer that there is nothing in life more important than Scientology”

    This ^

    It has occurred to me that many staff (myself included) and public have forgotten a very important datum.

    The individual DOES NOT START on a 3rd dynamic.

    If I’m not mistaken we (collective Scientology) are supposed to get an individual proofed up and in good shape on the FIRST so they can expand onto the 2nd, and then, when 1st and 2nd are in relatively good shape, THEN they can expand onto the 3rd.

    Instead far too many raw, awfully green people were forced onto the 3rd thereby committing overts on their 1st and 2nd dynamics and calling it “sacrifice” to justify those overt acts.

    “…you won’t get people off the fence or out from under the radar by being critical of them or stirring up a clique-like viewpoint about them. It’s too much the same harmonic that cob’s David Miscavige mob has done.”


  267. I wish you all the best as you extricate yourself and your family and friends.

  268. martyrathbun09

    And that is why you are indestructible, and a beacon for us all.

  269. Ingrid, truly, a very dumb thing to say.

  270. Sam, Like

  271. I did the same with great success.
    You’ll be amazed how fast you’ll pull in good possibilities for you. It’s quite an adventure but sticking to the truth is very rewarding..

  272. mrinder, completely agree!

  273. Tony DePhillips

    It’s in the R&D series. I think about 8 or 9. I believe the tape is called The Code of Behavior. For sure it’s in the R&D series.

  274. Marty, you are so right and this is so true. The Truth is our protection. The only protection with a person like this. And even with that, we all need friends.

  275. I never cared much for the actual wording, but I think it means “if nothing has changed”. E.g. You say you’ll meet a friend and buy them lunch; if nothing changes, then don’t stand them up (call and let them know if something has changed and you can’t make it).

    “Doubt Formula” is a formal statement of an intuitive process, if things have changed and/or you think you may be in the wrong place, check it out on a was/is basis or against comparable places, and decide for yourself. In simple situations most people can do this in under a second. E.g. A better job comes along; it’s considered polite to let your employer know you’re quitting, and bid goodbyes to your buddies.

  276. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Personal Judas,
    That was an excellent rant.

    I always disliked the “What would Ron do?”.
    It should be more like , what should I do??!!
    I’m sorry but LRH isn’t God. Use the tech wisely and get results with it.
    I think that LRH really cared about getting results, getting products.

  277. I’m with you, Mike.
    Me and FB John have been talking this morning. But like you, this whole “enemy line” thing seems to be out of left-field.

    Either John Nunez is really touchy on the subject of the “Church” being saved, and Debbie Cook being the one to do it… which is what I’m hearing. OR, J.N. has been hacked and they are really out there on “saving” the “church.”

    I do not know John well enough to know if it is him or not, but this is very out of character, imho.

  278. The FB John I’ve been talking to said the current church is in Danger condition. I laughed and pointed out several ways how ALL the church is in lower conditons.

    To argue over what Dead means? is just silly. Clear the word, everyone. The church IS dead! We’ve been talking about it on this blog since it’s inception!

    In the case of “it really is John posting here” : He needs a break from the internet. I know every so often I get so sucked in that I HAVE to take a break. Easy to get really emotional and tied up into BS.

    In the case of “John was hacked”: well, OSA is doing a “good” job then aren’t they?

    For those who still have doubts about the Church and whether it is alive or dead… go back up and re-read LRH’s talk about the code of ethics and his breakdown thereof.


  279. Joy,

    Great post, my sentiments exactly. I had very similar thoughts to you on this situation. I sincerely hope that we are right and it was a very clever tactic of Debbie’s. I guess only time will tell. Cheers

  280. Bozz — I think Nunez is a dupe at this point. Clearly the line being run by the church operatives now is “Debbie is going to save the church, Marty is trying to destroy the church, so if you love Scientology, throw your support behind Debbie and trash Marty.” Some here speculated Debbie’s posting was part of an elaborate plan to stir up dissent in the independent world. I havent talked to Debbie, but I don’t think that is likely. I think more likely it was a genuine attempt to do soemthing within what she feels is her limited, constrained ability to talk. BUT, I do believe that OSA is now attempting to take advantage of the disaster by getting people like Nunez to become vocal attackers of Marty. The church is rightly worried about Marty — they don’t care about Nunez, he is a nobody in their view. But, he can be a useful tool to try and stir up dissent and sidetrack the blog. Nunez probably doesnt even realize the 3P he has gotten. This is intel 101. He’s a dupe and his ser facs are being played like a fine violin.

    Anyone can observe reality of the existing scene in what is still called the “church of Scientology”, something that today has lost its basic purpose to help others and is devoted to “helping” itself by taking money from people.

    I hope Nunez wakes up and smells the coffee. Unfortunately, he has so vociferously staked out his claim to “rightness” that it will be hard for him to see anything other than how everyone else is out of step and he is the only guy who really sees and understands what is going on.

  281. Rafa; no es hacia tí. Ve lo que escribió Bryon.

  282. No es contra tí rafa. Ve el trend y lo verás. si alguien está trabajando duro en México; ese eres tú.

  283. The Economist

    I hear you Laura Ann. No offense taken. Just compelled to respond to what I perceived as theme in a significant number of the comments. Some of us pure public folk see things a bit differently. Still simmering at former high level staff for not calling bullshit sooner in the process. This thing was completely off the rails. Out KSW? How about “out” basic human decency…beatings, forced abortions, imprisonment, taking minors from parents and into the servitude of the Sea Org, disconnection, the list goes on…meanwhile I am giving my hard earned $$ to this organization because I think I am doing good to stem the tide of cultural decay. My injustice button got pushed hard.

  284. Yes this is honest !
    “My lifes lession had been, never listen to those that demand something from me as usually they follow their interests and not mine. ” This is the code of honour.
    my life lesson was:
    If you meet people that tell you exactly what you would like to hear and can agree with anything you say then watch them very closely as mostly they want to get you under their control.

  285. That’s my take it on it too, Mariella.
    I did the entire class IV intership at the Tampa org in 2005. They had 135 staff at the time. They had NO cramming officer on post until I was in my last week of the internship. It was ridiculous.
    I simply decided to take full responsibility for training myself and correcting myself by simply re-studying the appropriate HCOB when I had any uncertainty. It was an excellent exercise, because it set me up to be self-reliant.
    Since leaving the church in 2007 I’ve had five extremely competent class VIII C/Ss who have helped me to correct any errors I have made in my delivery.
    TRUTH: There are more COMPETENT tech terminals outside of the church than there are inside.

  286. @ John Nunez
    There is now a battle raging on Facebook how pissed off John is at Marty and about how the church is not dead and should be reformed.
    Those who are John’s friends are welcome to log on to his page and see for themselves the content.
    I would like everyone who has gotten sucked into this vitriolic debate to be aware when Klaus Buchele was exposed on this blog, John was supportive and defensive of Klaus and maintained a tight comm line with him for a period of some weeks.
    John now claims that he no-longer has a comm line with Klaus, however, is now spewing OSA party lines in the same vein as those which were being forwarded by Klaus and Maryanne Buchele (see John’s Facebook page for details).
    John – consider this a KR.

  287. +1

  288. Marty, I would say spot on with regards to original thought and responsibility.I witnessed a type of robotic action. I used to think to myself….I know what I know and LRH would not do this (putting people into debt, making others wrong, making less of them because they would not take a loan they could not pay back, gang banging them for money). This is what forced me to do the OEC course so I could understand the true intention. The truth in building a foundation with which to grow and implement a sound structure to expand with. Of course, you had personalities involved at the time that could not duplicate and would not take responsibility to get trained and audited,there-in lies the problem. I came to the conclusion that those I am referring to acted off of verbal data and not LRH.

  289. No problem !
    But I warn you.
    I haven’t blown yet the whole old staff circuitry. It couldd be sometimes I’m behaving like a staff of a church of Scientology !
    🙂 🙂 🙂

  290. Like there is any functioning on-Source Qual left anywhere in the entire Co$????

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  291. Saw it thanks i was confused, thank you very much.

  292. Thank you very much Roberto, is not easy to expose all the stuff behind the Scientology Church. pls send me a local phone where to contact you as I need to talk some stuff with you.

  293. Why does LRH write at all about field auditors ?
    Why didn’t you organize your own group with all those terminals in all those years you’re out ?

  294. PersonalJudas

    Exactly, Tony.
    It’s the old, ‘teach a man to fish’ proposition. He was trying to raise people’s ability not invite worship.
    In my opinion, Bots who consider his every word as gospel apparently have not penetrated the ‘marrow’ of his teachings and do him just as much disservice as the critics who claim his intentions were self-deifying.

  295. More about Debbie: If I were a well trained and audited Scn who spent many years in the SO as the head of the top delivery organization on the planet, who lost my post and later my self-esteem by standing in a garbage can with a sign around my neck, I would certainly take a different method of handling the situation. When I observed the abuse of my fellow staff and the many executives off post, I would accelerate and expand my efforts to handle the situation. Many of us have done so with far lesser excuses to act.

  296. You are one cool lady.

  297. Tony Dephillips

    Awesome Lo.

  298. Completely Enraged

    Well Sam, that wasn’t the point. I read comments on this thread that are slams on my integrity. I should just bare my chest and charge blindly into a snake pit with unreasoned and ill founded courage? That’s integrity? No. That’s not integrity. That’s stupidity. And I was NOT referring to Marty’s post, in which he expresses his regret that Debbie didn’t listen and now she pays the piper. Methinks it is wise to listen to Marty — he’s given excellent advice and Debbie would have done well to listen. In my books, integrity is wholeness. It is reason. It is working out the best way to do things so that my life is not destroyed in the process. What frigging good is standing up when I can’t even speak to the people I love? My husband. My friends. My children. No. NO. NO. I am really put off by these comments that put people down for not being willing to do that. For wishing to act in ways that are effective. You can take that as a slam on you or not, as you wish.

    The fact remains – there are people on this blog who KNEW and withheld and misrepresented what was going on. I understand why. But I will not tolerate being made wrong for taking care of my life and not once again being told that I am selfish-determined, out-ethics, out-integrity because I refused to be in the line of fire, going down in a glorious hail of bullets all for the “cause.” The end does not justify the means. It never did. It never will.

  299. PersonalJudas

    According to my understanding, this paragraph nails the intention of the independent movement (and Marty’s blog, specifically) with regard to the church, perfectly –

    ‘There are probably a few exceptions, but it would be much more worthwhile to enlighten the rest of the world who still has the ability to reason, compare, judge and think for themselves. By doing so, the current Church will crumble one way or the other, and those on the inside will either go down with it, or finally wake up.’

    Beautifully stated. It’s like a castle of deception, under seige by truth itself.
    Mike’s right, you do have a way with words!

  300. Thanks Tony, yes I know its in the R&D – just don’t have it at home so it would be great if someone could provide a full on-line reference.

  301. Ghost Of Pendragon

    After you’ve made a right bollocks, do what Ron says.

  302. +100 Sam

    Roberto, I do understand your viewpoint. I only would say that it is also quite valid to choose one’s own time of showing yourself, making another target for david miscavige derMidget and OSA is a very precarious place to be without some preparation. You actually were forced into that position and stood up to it honorably at great cost, but do you really wish that upon others?

    Marty, I am reluctantly agreeing with what you say about Debbie. Her email will have helped those with enough guts and integrity left to maybe burst out of the pens and successfully get away. However, those who did not move out fast and surely enough, far enough to get to a safe place will be rounded up again. Seeds of distrust and betrayal are hard ones to extirpate (pull out at the roots)…I still am hopeful that Debbie Cook’s email will cause such weakness in the foundation that there will be enough who disagree to make a difference.

  303. Completely Enraged

    And how did you deal with the terrible grief? The loss? The rage? How did you re-establish your sense of trust? Because right now I am in an agony of distrust. This isn’t some little skating club I went to once a week. This was my whole life. Everything that meant anything to me. And what’s at stake here is losing everyone I love and a lifetime of work and devotion.

    What steps did you take? Do you have any practical advice? How can I realistically weed out OSA plants who are seeking to carry out their agenda of destroying anyone who gets in their way?

  304. Indie-saurus-rex

    As a Scientologist that is still needing to do the lion’s share of the Bridge, I am leary of a a scenario in which scattered indepenedents are my only ticket to freedom. For all the drawbacks of an “organized church structure” there are just as many drawbacks to a loose affiliation of independents (i.e. look for indies who claim they have pursued LRH’s upper OT Levels and have discovered/arrived at OT 27, 28, 29, etc.).

    There will always have to be an organization that works to keep things standard and acts as a resource center for those needing that type of stable datum. As well, one has to consider that LRH’s materials will need to be made available for millennias to come. Sure right now one can go on eBay, make a photocopy of a friend’s book, make an .mp3 or a lecture, etc., but without a centralized body working to continually produce the materials, LRH’s works might get pretty scarce, even just 50 years from now.

    This is also not mentioning the fact that many people enjoy being a part of an organized, structured community.

    What I truly think is the most plausible situation is one in which the current church is disbanded – closed up shop. Then a period in which the 3rd dynamic has a chance to decompress and shake off the Miscavige-era engrams. At some point, maybe in a year or two, there will be interest in reorganizing along LRH’s intended management structure. At which time a reformation will take place. The difference this time though, is that the independet movement will not only be tolerated but also considered a legitimate part of Scientology… equal to but different from the central organization (and the same could be said in reverse – that the indies will tolerate and support the organized church).

    This, in my mind, an entirely likely scenario.

  305. oops…That was supposed to go to Mike Hobson on the Qual comment…

  306. ” Unfortunately, there has for decades been a “Peter Principle” at work within corporate Scientology.” ( quote from the post ). So having no shame is the biggest value within the Co$ .

  307. Varmint is also a person that you would not want to associate with, a crimminal, a liar, a cheat, somebody who would lessen your survival.

  308. Barney Rubble

    Couldn’t agree with you more and good to hear from you Phil. How can I contact you? I knew you and your wife well back in the eighties.

  309. So go back to the church John.

  310. Damned straight!!!

  311. My earlier comment stands.

  312. very very cool.

  313. Something else to consider is the liabilities attached to the corporate Church of Scientology. Refund claims, lawsuits, paid for but undelivered services, etc. Starting fresh avoids all that.

  314. haydn (T Paine)

    Damn right its dead. David Miscavige missed his true vocation — undertaker/embalmer. He is working hard to apply heavy layers of PR make up while dressing up the corpse in fancy clothes to make it look life-like as it sits rotting in its coffin, spraying clouds of perfume so his remaining followers won’t notice the stench. Its a losing game. Sooner or later they will see there is no pulse.

  315. Tony DePhillips

    Interesting data Sam.
    It is also intersting that John was really pushing this site where Debbie Cook was to be the next leader of corporate Scientology. If you also look at the idea that all who got in comm with Debbie were outed by OSA and the fact that John is pushing people to hook up with her and with what he said to Marty an argument could be made that he is a bot.

  316. Indie-saurus-rex

    I have a terrible admission to make. I’m disgusted with the current state of the church and absolutely cannot wait to see the end of David Miscavige.

    That’s not the terrible part – the terrible part is that I will secretly miss the fancy Ideal Orgs. I am fully aware that these fancy buildings are almost the antithesis of everytyhing Scientology stands for, but boy do I sure find them great looking and physically comfortable to be in(not being sarcastic).

    I’m actually ashamed to admit it because I know the abuse and terror that these orgs were erected from.

    Nonetheless, I find them attractive to the eyes.

    Oh well, the only thing better than good looking “matter” is a good looking, well functioning, bright as bright can be thetan. And that can be made out of a basement.

  317. TroubleShooter,
    thank you so much for this.
    Wise words.
    There is nothing more I could add.

    …… But you can take this to the bank:
    you won’t get people off the fence or out from under the radar by being critical of them or stirring up a clique-like viewpoint about them.
    It’s too much the same harmonic that cob’s David Miscavige mob has done.

    +++ BE PATIENT +++
    +++ LEAD BY EXAMPLE +++

    (hope you don´t mine for the added emphasis.)

  318. “Many of us have done so with far lesser excuses to act.”

    YES, exactly. Similar to what I was trying to say earlier too. And those are the uncompromised people with truth and guts.

  319. Brilliant …

  320. Tony — John Nunez is now in the twilight zone where semantic distinctions have little meaning, and only actions tell the tale.

    By what he has been doing recently, Nunez is doing the work of OSA. Is he an OSA agent or is he just being manipulated to act like one? (while being convinced he is the most self-determined, honorable and right person walking on planet earth today). My vote is on the latter, but really it doesnt make any difference as the result is the same. Pay someone to stir shit or pay someone to persuade someone else to be the mouthpiece.

    But I think it’s a bit sadder to watch someone who has been wound up like a cheap watch shouting from the rooftops “Marty’s mother wears army boots” — and they don’t know they have been manipulated into doing it.

    The internet is a two-edged sword, wonderful for open communication lines and terrible for exposing to the world what a fool you are when you do somethig stupid.

  321. John,
    I understand what you are saying with regard to the difficulties of not having a Qual or other administrative personnel. This is covered in C/S Series 25. And I have seen some of the things that are being done in the Freezone in the name of LRH tech that would make your hair stand on end.

  322. right on Rachal, I completely agree with you!

  323. Tom Gallagher


    This post and the accompanying comments reminded me of a quote worthy of consideration for anyone going through the motions of being a loyal RCS member for fear of retribution.

    “I’d rather die on my feet then live on my knees.”

  324. Very good points Rachel!

  325. Thanks Marty for the post and the platform for all this discussion. After reading all the conversation, arguments and rants I’ve read here, I have a broadened understanding of what I need to do to get out from under the CoS zone. I have already made my personal beliefs known to close family, and have remained in high ARC to help plant seeds and continue discussion about what the Church really is doing today.
    Next step = new job. A job where my boss/s aren’t super-invovled Scientologists, holding my family’s financial well-being over my head. In fact, both me and my 2D work for Scn. owned businesses. It is a bizzare type of pressure. Living pay-check to pay-check, being a young family with new parental responsibilities, and knowing that “speaking out” or even signing this blog entry with my real name, will result in a loss of pay, demotion or getting “let go”. I have heard the threat, and know my boss’ clear position on this.
    Sam your comment about protecting your children made a lot of sense to me. If I raise my child in CRS, I will be raising (literally) one the few fifth generation Scn on the planet today. If you can image, there are many people in my family who want that very badly. It’s a strange sense of pride for them. Extra protection will be needed from those attacks, I’d imagine. Maybe you’d be willing to talk with me some more, Sam, about how you did help prepare your kids?

  326. haydn (T Paine)

    I think the problem boils down to R (responsibility) in the KRC triangle (the relationship between knowledge, responsibility and control). The remaining followers of David Miscavige and those who sit idle on a fence have a great deal of knowledge about what is going on with Scientology (its all around them and amply covered in Marty’s and other blogs. The problem is that to exert some control over the future of the subject of Scientology one would first have to be willing to be responsible for it. Willing to be responsible for the subject of Scientology? Now that is something. Willing to be responsible for something that can do that much good or that much harm when used in reverse. It is not a small step and this is not new problem — too few people taking responsibility — it continuously plagued LRH and eventually led to Miscavige seeing (and taking) his chance to rule.

    Those still following Miscavige and those snagged on the fence need to decide to be responsible for the subject of Scientology, if they do they can then exert some real control over its future.*

    This subject is well covered in a book by one of LRH’s contemporaries — Hemingway. It has a very fitting title — FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS.

    *Please note: I’m talking about the subject of Scientology and not the Church thereof, which is dead.

  327. Tony DePhillips

    Touche Mike!!

  328. As I recall, LRH had give up his original Dianetics organizations in the early 50’s and started over Independent of them, when they were too far gone and he was unable to take back control. I would guess that he thought they were “dead.” There are similarities here but just dealing with a much larger scene.

  329. Now I understand what the term “regging” really means: regimented raping and pillaging. Well said!

  330. Dear Completely Enraged,

    I absolutely get you.

    First, you are not a dupe,an idiot or anything else. Many others, possibly with even sharper minds and bigger wallets have been duped, but that doesn’t make them “dupes”. YOU have taken a courageous step by being prepared to actually LOOK, TR 0 and confront.

    Second, the anger and sense of betrayal you express so well is perfectly justified, one could even say necessary. Most here reading your post will identify 100% with it. I know I can. The sense of betrayal is overhelming; the recognition that almost everything you’ve been told is utter, utter bullshit and lies is almost too much to take in, and it will take time to come to terms with it. I’m sure in common with hundreds, when I fully grocked the whole scene, there many tears, a LOT of anger,

    Third, understand that most here are a lot further along the learning curve, and have arrived at a state of acceptance, even tranquility about it, and are looking beyond the whole ruddy mess to the future.

    Fourth, and most importantly, you have started getting your life back. You will find many warm and friendly folk here who will do almost anything to help you. “Keep calm and carry on”.

  331. This is very true… and sadly I know this staff member and many others will buy all of it; I used to as well. The first response I got was that they had heard her account had been hacked — that it wasn’t really Debbie sending out that email. But when that was easily disproven, the very same person then later told me that actually she was already being declared — without even noticing the outpoints galore.

    In the same conversation, the staff member derided Debbie for going off-policy and sending the email — I was told that even if everything she said was true, she shouldn’t have sent that out — and then justified going off-policy to fundraise for “ideal orgs” because it was “necessary”.

    I feel so much better now that I am no longer doing such mental acrobatics!

  332. Li'll bit of stuff

    Brimborion = David Miscavige!

  333. Mr Fancy

    Hi. Yes, I know what you mean.

    But here is something that I came across that helps me better grasp that one.

    I am listening to the “Emotion and Effort” tapes, and in the one called “Prime Thought”, (12 November 1951) L. Ron Hubbard says this:……

    “All right, here starts a cycle-of-action. The person says, “I am going to be” and then, little doubt, little failure, a tremendous effort in here to struggle out of this somehow and then recognition of “I–I don’t believe can do it,” see, and that’s awful, that’s terrible. That’s doubt comes in there and then all of a sudden, “I didn’t do it.” Actually a person isn’t even down the Tone Scale at all until he SAYS he is. And he says to himself suddenly, “I failed. I observe physical evidence around me that tells me I have failed.” Oh boy. That’s death! You see, the cycle-of-action of life is to come into existence and live till you’re dead. And so here’s this little cycle-of-action, so the failure says, “dead.” How wrong can you be? Dead. Very simple.

    LRH doesn’t say that you cannot change your mind, or postulate a new existence. Here he just seems to be saying what the mechanism is when a being decides he has failed, a decision that would always precede making a new postulate.

    Eric S

  334. Your humble servant

    Les, I would have to say there are no longer ANY competent tech terminals within the official church of Scientology now. How could there be? They are operating within a framework of corrupted “out -tech.” The goal is no. longer furnishing a greater freedom and ability to any individual but to inculcating a subservience to the group and to so-called “command intention.” (When I occasionally heard that term I thought they were talking about Ron’s intention, but it turns out they were talking about David Miscavige’s). Yes, there are shades of competence to be found here and there, but the actual tech that Ron formulated no longer exists in the official church, so how could there be “competent tech terminals” there?

  335. OMWU: Yes, the most outrageously inconsistent things are said with no slightest sense of irony, let alone embarrassment. Mental acrobatics that put Cirque du Soleil to shame. Exhibit One: Virginia Stewart and the recent expose about her disconnection.

  336. CE –
    In 2008, after my “awakening” I connected up with locals who were active and independent. I immediately met someone looking for someone like me (job-wise) and interviewed and within 2 weeks had completely extricated myself from my old Scn run job and started a new life.

    As soon as you’re ready, apply Non-E (or Expanded Non-E) and get ready to FLY!

  337. Debbie’s mail cut through the 16′ armoured plate we couldn’t cut in 2,5 years and has given us a tool we can continue to use. Your story of huge TA in the field is similar to many others. Judge people by their actions and not by their non action; anyone reading the mail could find new stable data on their own selfdeterminism (something we call Scientology).

  338. Davey in Helena circa 1925!

    McConnell: “Davy I did as you ask and I have been getting a lot of milk money but this morning Ronny Hubbard got on a big ol fence and jumped on me! He beat the crap out of me and took all the money and ran back and gave it to his friends-the ones I had just taken it from. They seem to really like him.

    Davey: “You pussy! You just didn’t want it bad enough. Now if you don’t get back out there and get that milk money I’ll give you a real beating!

    McConnell: “But Davey he has so many friends and they always seem to be having such a good time making snow men, finding deer antlers, sledding and cool things like that!”

    Davey: “Look man it’s a scam! He’s just setting them up to get the milk money all for himself. That’s what people do. They pretend to care and then when the time is right they pounce. I’ve got to hand it to that Ronny –he’s a clever one!”

    McConnell: “Well maybe your right. I did see him taking up a collection last week but then the next day Ronny shows up with a bunch of lumber and all the kids on the block got together and built a really cool fort with elk antlers and everything-Now there always in there laughing and giggling. I don’t get it. Even in school the girls are always running up to him and playing with his hair and then they run off so happy! I think he might be a good guy Davy”

    Davey: “Bullshit! He’s not a good guy! There are no good guys. How many times to have to tell you that? Look, I have run this scam many times myself. You get people to trust you and when have them you move in for the kill shot-you break their hearts and take them for everything they have!.

    McConnell “ Davey, Sister Maria Ann told me in school that I better stop doing bad things because some day I would have to meet my maker and then she told me go home and stand in front of the mirror and that I would begin to see him. What do you think that was all about?

    Davey “Sister my blister! Look man when you die you die- that’s it! There is no maker so you better get yours while you can. That’s how I roll and if I hurt somebody, well then, they must have had it coming!”

    McConnell “Ok….If you say so Davey”

  339. Great story and valuable lesson! Thanks so much!

  340. Scott, thank you so much for this, it’s one of my favorite issues of all time.

  341. Li'll bit of stuff

    Eric, your words always embody the power of simplicity!

  342. I’m late to this post, was out most of the day yesterday in to the evening.

    “The Church Is Dead” I gasped when I first read this statement when posted in the past. It troubled me and I didn’t want to agree, so rejected it as an idea. There is an organization there; there are thousands of well intentioned Scientologists wanting to forward LRH’s goals and objectives for earth and mankind. A grand and noble idea actually put into practice and moved forward for a time. The idea of the church being dead wasn’t real to me.

    I spent some time examining that statement.

    Senior Management is hell bent on its’ current course of buying buildings.

    Senior Management is fixated on power and money.

    Senior Management is not delivering the basic products of Scientology Orgs, Auditors and happy P/C’s.

    Senior Management is not laying the foundation for bringing new people in. Statistics (real statistics) clearly indicate this area is crashed.

    Senior Management is NOT maintaining good relations with the environment. The many countries openly disdainful of the Church and Corporate Scientology is a sobering statistic. Many of these are countries which in the past did NOT have these views.

    The entire world is aware of the financial and physical abuses taking place within Corporate Scientology. Simple searches for information bring an avalanche of current information and stories on the topic. This is a horrible P/R situation of monstrous proportions.

    The tech has been subtly and not so subtly altered and abused to the point of making its’ practice an unsustainable event. When Tech is properly applied its affects are tremendous and creates a self sustaining mechanism or perpetuation of the tech. People naturally tell their friends about the wonderful things they learned and the real help they got.

    In Miscaviges version this is not occurring. Quite the opposite is happening and it is clearly visible in every corner of the world in every ORG and Mission to a greater or lesser degree if one is willing to simply look and observe what he actually sees. Where are the masses of people, trained auditors and happy p/c’s?

    In Miscaviges version, auditors are taught robotic auditing procedures based on his ideas of the tech as evaluated and altered by him and foisted upon those in training. Some are able to work through this but eventually all are forced to comply, leave or be RPFed.

    Management is not forwarding LRH policy but only provides lip service to it at best. Instead a NEW ERA of Know Best via Miscavige’s Command Intention is the order of the day. LRH policy is relegated to “That is how we used to do it” and Command Intention is senior to LRH policy DM style.

    The Orgs and Missions are run by those compliant with the above. This is what they are forwarding and have come to believe as important to achieve. They believe forwarding this is essential to:

    • Their continued survival in the group
    • Their eternities
    • And what they now believe is the correct method of forwarding of LRH’s ideas.

    The Sea Org is run directly by Misvcavige and all that come into it are indoctrinated in Miscaviges ways and ideas from the beginning. They come to Understand and Believe that, what Miscavige says equals what LRH says, and so do not question or dare think otherwise, least they find themselves on the RPF. They dare not think.

    LRH policy shown to them that clearly evidences policy deviations may cause them to shudder but should they query, they soon learn the dangers of questioning. The deviations or outright violations of basic policy are explained away to their now bobbing heads. Rank and file SO members, Execs and public all are indoctrinated.

    The public are the next in line to receive their hating in the New Order. The training line up is lengthened by arbitraries, vital hating and training are removed and altered materials are the replacement. Basic books are the objective to pursue not auditor training or making clears. Objective processing for all is the new dictate; the tech violations of this are no longer even seen.

    Ethics and Justice lines are now money lines at best and punishment at their worst. The entire organization is run based on what Miscavige dictates, that day. It is by definition psychotic, organizationally.

    The entire organizational structure is infected with Out Tech and Off Policy and believes it is correct. They believe this just as fervently as you and I believe otherwise. They KNOW we are the squirrels and that they are forwarding Standard Tech. They know this from public to rank and file SO to whatever level of management still exists. They know this at ASI, GOLD, CST, OSA, SMI, CCI, ABLE, CCHR, FSO, PAC Base, ANZO etc etc.

    They are blind to the fact that they are ineffective. They are blind to the fact that their world is shrinking. They are blind to the fact that they are harming. They believe, not what LRH says about their situation, but what “Everybody knows” about their situation, i.e., the world is full of S/P’s working against them, including those S/P’s, the independents. They know that following “Command Intention” will “Win the Day”. All the while their world continues to shrink and decay, new public stay away in droves, existing parishioners continue to flood the exits, country after country gives them grief and their P/R machine is a laughing stock.

    This above is the existing scene.

    Now this may or may not fill the bill of “The Church Is Dead” but its damn close seems to me. What a pitiful condition and what a monumental task to resurrect. And if it indeed it needs resurrection, then it must certainly be dead or nearly so.

    Even if Miscavige were to be replaced today and his sycophants removed. All those that have been trained under his reign need dramatic correction, all the SO need re-hating, all the public need to be brought to need of change and demand for improvement, all the out tech and off policy, money raising, the IAS, the status, the personal sacrifices they have held dear to their hearts in forwarding this mad mans desires, all must recognize the out tech, off policy, faulty training, their lack of forwarding KSW etc. The level of recognition necessary that would need to take place within the confines of the church is staggering, an impossible situation organizationally. With Miscavige gone they would simply carry on with what they KNOW to be the “correct tech”.

    One by one they will awaken and one by one change is possible. The Church, as LRH envisioned and implemented, is Dead, I am sorry to say I agree.

    The responsibility to carry on has shifted. The Church can not be trusted, to do the job as they have amply demonstrated time and time again and some damage control is in order, not only in the present but for the future.

    Tim S

  343. The Economist,
    I do understand. 🙂

  344. haydn (T Paine)

    Pound for pound, the greatest expansion of Scientology ever was when LRH trained some auditors at St Hill in the 60s and simply sent them out into the world. The truly huge missions and mission network came from that single action before Miscavige put an end to it all with ferocity and destroyed the mission network in the very early 80s. Later, bringing in squirrel tech, Miscavige made sure such expansion could never happen again and the state of existing orgs and missions are testament to that fact.

    It is only hard to deliver standard tech (nay, impossible) in David Miscavige’s world of Miscavology. In the independent world, if you can read and duplicate LRH, and have the courage to be an audiior, you can deliver standard tech.

    See Mechanisms of Miscavige — David Miscavige used, and uses, tests that are rigged, that no one can pass, leaving one and all feeling incompetent and sub standard. Nobody should buy into that suppression. Death lies in that direction.

  345. LOL, thanks for the grin and high five!

  346. Thanks!

  347. martyrathbun09

    A sooth-ing sum up.

  348. Hey CE,
    When I was “in” the church I (unfortunately) recall all too often making decisions based on what others would think. Deciding to be on staff, contributing, doing projects, many of these things were done, at least in part, to gain approval. Almost all (if not all) of what I regret while being in the church falls into this category, trying to curry favor, being a hard-ass asshole to others to look tough, and I can tell you that there is not much better then being free of all that…and I am not planning to go back to that modus operandi any time soon!
    I also wonder what is the definition of under the radar, if it means not having openly posted my independence with my real name, that I am in this category.
    Recently I was interviewed by OSA, and among other things they asked me repeatedly whose side I was on, and I kept telling them that I’m on MY side! They did not like this answer, needless to say.
    I am also considering my financial and family relations while extricating myself, trying to help others and going up the bridge in the Independent Field.
    Some day, probably sooner rather than later, I will be officially “out”. But it will happen on my terms.
    And lastly one of the “benefits” I have experienced from being “in” the Corporate Church for so long is that I no longer feel any emotional response from efforts to pressure me or make me feel guilty. Its a real hoot to be in a sales cycle, or any cycle where someone is trying to “get me to do” something and being completely exterior to the “pressure” they bring to bear. Its definitely an ability gained…I think I’ll write a success story and send it to Flag…

  349. A psychopath or not a psychopath? Wondered about David Miscavige but not quite sure? Takes this quiz from CNN today:

    Bad bosses: The Psycho-path to Success?

    Interesting article, too. Someone of this profile who gets his paws on a technology (system) such as the real Scientology will start perverting it from training to counseling and destroy, vilify all that is sacred. Check it out.

  350. maurizio serafini


  351. maurizio serafini

    I like your comment.
    having said that I think MP did not mean to be nasty to nobody.

  352. Li’ll Bit

    Not my words… This is LRH

    Eric S

  353. If you look, you can find excellent Qual and Ethics, better than what you can find in the Church simply on the basis of amount of experience in Scientology. However, they don’t come to you, you have to go to them. Some independent auditors deliver great auditing with apparent ease, and their schedules are constantly packed with PCs. But as LRH said, the expert makes it look easy.

  354. I wish to confirm the above. I am the one that called it to Sam’s attention in hopes she might be able to talk some sense into the idjit. I’m also FB friends with Christie and it was her attempt at a dialog with John in my Feed that alerted me to this going on.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  355. maurizio serafini

    that is as clear as it gets Raul.
    2 thumbs up

  356. TS, I hear you but I just happen to disagree. Nobody would drag anybody into a fight kicking and screaming if they are not up to it, of course, but nudging them into taking pro-survival stand is a helpful action. Fear is an unhealthy tone level no matter how welcoming and accommodating you feel toward other beings. Fear carries a lot of unsightly ballast with it. I am sure you are familiar with the Chart of Human Evaluation and the Tone Scale.

    I was fortunate or unfortunate enough to be in Moscow on mission in October 1993 when a Communist-held Parliament tried to reinstate the Communist Party at the helm, get rid of Boris Yeltsin and wipe out the fledgling democracy. Since Army, police and even the Internal Security (KGB) troops refused to fight on either side of the conflict, the Parliament hired 860, I think, mercenaries from Moldova and Ukraine to step in and take out the democratic President.

    The mercs rolled in on 96 armored battle personnel carriers BTR-80’s with heavy machine guns and other goodies galore and a huge red flag on each vehicle.

    About half a million Moscovites, including me and all my new Dianetics guys and girls assembled around Kremlin to defend Democracy with our bare hands. I saw people of all genders, ages, income brackets and education levels there waiting day and night in the cold to stop the BTRs with their bodies. I saw old ladies bringing and distributing water and milk, I saw dozens of doctors and nurses organizing field medical points for the wounded out of crates and pallets, I saw media set up in the thick of it, I saw pro-Democratic cops organizing a relatively hardened firing position, etc, etc, etc. I am proud I was there that night and that day.

    That was in 1993, a long time ago. Whoever wants to fly under the fence here and now, feel free to do so. But the Tone Scale is still what it is and dynamics are still what they are, and complexity is still proportionate to the degree of non-confront. I didn’t invent those, they just are. I just wanted to make that known.

  357. Wow.
    Sorry to hear that, Laura.
    Does this mean I’m your new FSM? 🙂 IF SO… maybe I need to go have a little chat with Marty!!! :p j/k

  358. BT

    Just a comment here on who or what one should trust.

    Trust is an interesting issue. I consider it wise that one do “due diligence” when trusting anyone. This commodity called “trust” is as readily sought by your enemies as by your friends. It is wise to be vigilant.

    Eric S

  359. That “New Order” was what I saw way back when. The CofS as it exists today, with the quintessence manifested at the Int Base, is David Miscavige’s vision for the society.

    It’s exactly as LRH predicted in 1952 in the PDC tape redacted by Miscavige, with old George Orwell’s 1984 a pale rendition.

    Fuck no. Not a chance.

    I agree with Mike – every last cell of that cancer has to be excised and cleared.

  360. Hi isme 2012
    You wrote: “The individual DOES NOT START on a 3rd dynamic”
    I see what you mean.
    Here’s another viewpoint: We came into an org or group and got some wins on a dynamic that was important to us. Enough gains to see ‘wow’, wouldn’t it be great if everybody had wins like this? We joined the group and worked our little butts off on whatever post. While having the 1st and 2nd dynamic all sorted out before joining the 3rd dynamic sounds ideal and would be great, if enforced, it would be a ‘MUST HAVE BEFORE CAN DO’ and a staff member, same as an auditor does not have any case on post. In fact, the wins achieved as group member and on one’s post can do a lot to improve the 1st and 2nd dynamic.I am talking about preDM times. Yes, there were many times one had to sacrifice the 1st or 2nd dynamic for the 3rd but we were hanging in there and pushed Scientology ahead. Such sacrifices happen outside of Scientology as well. It is life. Scientology would never have expanded as it did had we started pampering the 1st and 2nd dynamic before putting the shoulder to the wheel on the 3rd.

  361. Marty,

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but you seemed to be implying that you thought that Debbie Cook had made a mistake with her email.

    Ref, “… she was and is just as naïve about the workings of the outside world and particularly how David Miscavige’s Office of Special … works within it.” , “Despite warnings, Debbie has tried to approach dealing with David Miscavige in a half-pregnant fashion.” and “Because Debbie has attempted to perpetuate the fiction that she is not in communication with anyone not in good standing, and that all that is amiss is a euphemistic reality that there are some “policy violations” afoot…”

    I think that she pitched it at the right level to communicate to those that are still swigging the Kool-Aid from Miscavige’s approved brand of cup. Or more accurately, I think that this email had the best chance of getting through, but I’m resigned to the fact that NOTHING will get through to the remaining sheeple.

    Being an optimist, I like to think that Debbie had been planning this for a long time and that this is simply the first salvo in a devastating broadside against the tyranny that has infected the CoS. Having been on the receiving end of some horrible punishments, she would have been well-aware of the consequences of sending the aforementioned email and has made plans to thwart the inevitable legions of darkness loosed upon her.

    I hope that I am right in this assumption – the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

    My personal view is that the only sensible course of action for anyone still in the Cos is to GTFO immediately and then have a good, long, hard look at the situation and decide what they really want to do. But sadly, most of those left in aren’t self-determined enough to take any effective action to save themselves.


  362. Email me – it’s a secure line.
    Probably won’t get back to you until well into the weekend but I can probably help you with that.

  363. Moderator
    The replies to posts don’t seem to be going where they’re supposed to but are just going at the bottom of the page instead.

  364. maurizio serafini

    completely enraged, I was pretty much in your shoes only few moths ago.
    M doing much better now.
    it was last summer when all I could do was to timidly write Marty on his secure email, He quoted to me Rosevelt “the only thing to be afraid of is fear itself” you seem to have successfuly navigated that already; so you are on your way. already doing the right thing: communicate, find terminals, get auditing, STUDY(relevant source materials but also history of the church) it cannot be much further away your next breakthru.

  365. Pat,
    “The chief stumbling block, huge above all others, is the upset we have with
    POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCES and their relationship to suppressive persons or groups.” PL, 23 December 1965, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists.

  366. Li'll bit of stuff

    Eric, I certainly duplicated your source ref., was merely
    ack-ing how well you pick up and then manage to express
    just the right thoughts, quotes and references in order
    to simplify ANY situation you choose to comment on.
    LRH,of course remains, unquestionably, Source!
    Apologies for any mistaken attribution! None intended!

    Li’ll bit

  367. She can decompress at my home if she needs.

    Vinkenstraat 120A

    The Netherlands

    Ask Terril Park if I am a good host 😉

    heey Miscavige do I get a loveletter from you nowmy hunnybun ?

  368. Mike, I would liken the situation to a ocean liner that has been mortally holed below the water-line and is taking on water fast. The captain is sat at his dinner table (swigging his favourite brand of scotch), telling his passengers that they will arrive at their destination on time and demanding that all the staff stick to their posts and go nowhere near the lifeboats. The engines are thrumming, the screws are turning and it is full speed ahead to a watery grave just minutes away.

    Not quite dead but very close.

    Your analogy with the cancer is very apt – the sickness has pervaded almost every part of the corporate structure. I saw this so many times at St Hill – the many good people struggling in vain against the unremitting lunacy. I cannot see any way of getting rid of it without tearing the whole thing down and starting anew.


  369. CE,
    I HEAR you, and sincerely I UNDERSTAND. Rage is an appropriate response, it isn’t “mis-emotion”. It is a rational response.

    You can write to me “backchannels”, my email is OSA won’t get your name from my mail. If you need to, encrypt, anonymize, do whatever, but you can write to me.

    I’ve been there. I’m on the nicer other side. Maybe I can help you.

  370. Rex,

    Thanks for sharing.

    On your thoughts or “confession” 🙂 I totally understand. We all like nice shiny things.

    As ED of an org for many years, every now and then, someone would voice complaints about our building which was fine and well-kept. They would attempt to compare it all the other “nice CC Int”. Those complaints, whether made by an individual or an entire OT Committee were always accompanied with that saaaame ole’ tiring line, tailored to benefit the person promoting it: “the public know us by our MEST, you know??..that’s what LRH says …somewhere” (said in whiney tone).


    Not ONCE, did I ever fall for this as an excuse to NOT deliver Dianetics and Scientology and this was LONG before Miscavenger began pushing the same type BS programs always arriving in an overnite package from Fed Ex marked: “IMPORTANT AND URGENT –TOP PRIORITY PROGRAM FOR ALL ORGS. SHRED ALL OTHERS. THAT MEANS YOU –YOU IGNORANT ASSES”.


    There’s nothing at all wrong with BIG posh beautiful buildings with all the trimmings. Per LRH, those things can easily be “earned” by training auditors and delivering auditing. Unfortunately, any programs written that included exact steps, (per LRH policy) to “honestly” earn better facilities were deemed “old and no longer in use” within corporate Scientology.

    But no worries, all other programs were canceled and replaced with a new program called: “Miscavenger’s School of Schiesterrorism”. I was thinking outloud here: if folks have monies on account they might be able to transfer it over for this new course. But of course that’s only if they haven’t already transferred it all of it over to be used on one of their 12 personal sets of the Basics. Worth a try though.

    Back then, when the subject came up, my response (much like your own conclusion there.. Rex) was : “Scientology saved my life. With the the life-changing wins, miracles and gains that I’ve personally received from Scientology, if someone came up to me right now and said “Your auditor is waiting for you…uhm…in the barn”, I’d be there..(with spurs on).

  371. Climbing a 9' High Board Fence

    When I saw the actions and activities of the group I found myself in and compared these with what activities and actions the group I had initially joined AND looked at what LRH as goal finder named as the actions and activities the group should be engaged in; it was very clear. MY GROUP LEFT ME WHEN IT DRIFTED FROM THE IDEALS NAMED BY LRH. My allegiance is still there to the group I granted my allegiance to.

  372. Sam,
    NOw THAT is cool dissemination news in itself 🙂

  373. Li'll bit of stuff

    Eric,I thank you again, for reposting this vital bit of
    advice. It certainly makes it clearer,the more often
    one sees it.

    Regarding the earlier posting, I made, re: the power
    of simplicity, then your reply, please see my added that! Hope you can have my ack.and
    same with your above post here! Great work! Li’ll bit

  374. The Economist,
    I called this stuff out when I saw it. I’ve got “650 accounts of known insubordination” in the files.

    I’m here, posting on this blog. Still calling it out. And I’m with you completely on the injustices.

  375. It’s a clean example of “justified thought” from DMSMH, played out on a Group Organism level. The Church of Serfacism.

    The irony.

  376. I’m with my bro, Jackson, it’s for real and it’s unconditional.

    Unconditional Jim (Jackson’s brother).

  377. I think Terril just wants to say that many people have sacrificed tangible and untangible things or matters giving some counter intention against the CO$.

    And you want to acknowledge the people in your group of Independents for the fact they stepped and are stepping up to the plate.

    In memory of Ida Camburn

  378. Yes, Ingrid, you should come back :). We have some Solo NOTs going, a Solo 1 course, several book ones and 2 OT8 and an OT7 on their way out – we will hear from them soon :).

  379. Micheal, pick your High Crime. That is the issue here. Pick your High Crime:

    – Publicly depart Scientology
    – Mutiny
    – Organizing splinter groups
    – Having in possession unauthorized copies of OT material
    – Public disavowal of Scientology of Scientologists in good standing with Scientology Organizations
    – Continued membership in a divergent group
    – Continued adherence to a person or group pronounced as a suppressive person or group by HCO
    – Failure to handle or disavow and disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of or suppressive acts
    – Calling meetings of staffs or field auditors or the public to deliver Scientology into the hands of unauthorized persons…

    This is unfortunately the choice that Mr David Miscavige has put forth. If you want to save Scientology, you must commit a High Crime. And these are official High Crimes, regardless of justification. That is the problem. These are official High Crimes regardless of how anyone feels about Mr. David Miscavige, or the Church, or anything else.

    Therefore, I cannot blame anyone for doing what possibly can be done to try to solve this internally, and suck that lemon dry, before publicly throwing in the towel on the Church and the Organization. It is NOT an easy choice, and it is NOT a choice to be taken lightly.

    IT TAKES A WHILE to come to this realization. IT IS VERY DISAPPOINTING to have to realize that this is the case. IT IS ACKNOWLEDGING THAT RON HAS FAILED. This is a tough pill to swallow.

    It is unfair to depict people who have not come to the realization that they, themselves MUST commit a high crime to save Scientology as devoid of personal integrity, honesty, and decency. It is a fucked situation for us to be in, and it is up to each of us to make up our own minds about what to do about it.

  380. This should really have been incorporated into the book of Scientology 0-8
    Jeeez no, way too dangerous. Can’t have people thinking for themselves (not)!

  381. I had to really think “Never withdraw an allegiance” through. I pledged allegiance to the group of Scientologists practicing standard tech, ethics, and admin, in fact, not to the Church of Scientology per se. Unfortunately the current Church is no longer that group. Once I sorted that out, I felt free to resign from the current Church and become an Independent.

  382. So, numbers 1, 2, and 3 is what we are all wrestling with, isn’t it? We were all part of the Church of Scientology, we were all involved in one way or another, and we all received incredible gains and benefits from being a part of it, and we all have scars and have shed blood, sweat and tears for having been involved.

    The struggle is: What is really the group? If the group screws us, are we still beholden to numbers 2 and 3? Is it really the group that is screwing us, or some corrupt assholes in the group (some of which were there long before Miscavige entered the scene)? We want (and will) do the honorable thing, but in order for it to be honorable, it has to be on our own terms and done using our own council with data that is real to us.

    Of course, all the points in the Code of Honor are in use as we work through this.

    It is tough. I respect and feel for all who are in this quandary.

  383. I am very uncomfortable with the current structure of the Church and the lack of checks and balances and financial transparency, even with the most wonderful person in the world at the helm. There is far from a consensus on who would reform the Church and how this would be done. Thus I think we should just let the current Church fall and continue what we are doing as Independents. We will organically evolve as we go.

  384. CE, probably get some very good and theta comm from Jim Logan, so get in comm with him. My own “advice” is pretty simple:

    As long as you don’t hurt other beings, go for SURVIVAL, the dynamic principle of existence. Do nothing that will harm your immediate self and family, money-wise or any other wise. That’s your first responsibility.

    Apply whatever indicates to you in The Code of Honor, never compromise with your own reality, only give and receive communication you desire, etc – whatever points in the code that are real to YOU and speak to YOU.

    The applied religious philosophy as laid down by L. Ron Hubbard will remain available for all who would like to look into it, study it and use it to improve their lives (of course it is easier to do that in some parts of the world than others).

    Don’t risk anything to help/reform “The Church.” Totally not worth it on just a “doubt formula basis.” The COS will probably peter out over the next twenty to thirty years as the old timers die and no “new timers” get in.

    Under the radar, over the rader, through the radar, who gives a shit. Don’t take OTHERS’ direction or eval for YOUR life!!! Remain wherever YOU want to remain on the radar scope. Do what YOU feel is survival. Be your own counsel, be your own advisor, select your OWN decisions. You’ll probably be better off and happier in the end. But don’t take my advice either, because I’m not living your life, YOU are.

  385. Your concern is real, but it is not as bad as you think it is. The fact is that we need to trust people. Trust them to self-organize and do the right thing with Scientology. I was very doubtful about how this would word, but there are a large number of people I truly respect who have shaken off the dirt of Mr. David Miscavige and just started applying Scientology. Some will create groups, and some groups will get larger and larger.

    There is no value to central management when there is no one who can definitively state, up or down, what is or what is not Scientology. Ron left us 25 years ago, and in my opinion, he is the only one who can do that.

  386. I am running under the radar because I am convinced that Miscavige’s trolls will make life miserable for my family, my friends, and my dear associates still in the Sea Org if I come out.

  387. Mike: There might be. Just not where any highly-indoctrinated RTC reps can find them.

  388. Ohhh, (((Scott!!!)))
    That was sooo funny. Thank you for the levity break amidst such a hot topic. I just love the Bugs Bunny gang. Roadrunner is another all time fave. Your timing and choice were perfect… 🙂

  389. Last night on the PBS Newshour the interwiew was with the king of Jordon, talking about Syria and the dictator Assad. He said “the system” would not allow Assad to make reforms even if he wanted. She asked what he meant by the “the system”. He said the sytem was the group or sect in power around Assad and the laws that support Assad’s grip on power. Simply put they cannot keep power and enact reforms at the same time. If they enacted reforms, they would loose power. The King said he does not see any way that the situation in Syria ends well. Assad and his power structure is doomed or the population will be murdered and/or enslaved.
    So it is with the Church. The church is syria, Miscavide is Assad, the church members are the polulation. There will be no meaningful reform. The situation ends badly.
    Debbie Cooks letter, though useful, is not the vehicle for change she hoped. The church is dead. She should make a clean break and work at promoting scientology as an independent. The only route forward for scientology as a meaningful and useful aid to mankind is outside the existing corporate church.

  390. Fish Fly Too,
    Fuckin’ A!

  391. Mr. Payne,

  392. John,
    I’m Qual staff. What do you need?

  393. Non-Scio, VERY relevant post. Thank you. I very much reccomend the book “The God That Failed” published in 1949 I think, which is about six famous writers who left the Communist party and why. The parellels of thought control methods with the COS are fascinating. Especially as during the early 60s there was the question on sec checks of having been a Communist (didn’t want former commies noticing the similarities in handling?) I’m sure the book can be found on amazon.

  394. Tacobell,
    I’ve seen them too. I’ve seen the ones spit out of David Miscavige’s line and that ain’t pretty either.

    CS Series 25 is hard won fact. So, what’s keeping a person from putting it in, even if they have to wear all the hats until the can get others to take some on?

    Right now, as I write this, there is an auditing session going on done by an auditor who, with good TRs in, their Act One in (from AP&A), a CS given by another, and with me sitting around in case some CS Series 25 cramming is needed, proves that if one wants HCO and Qual in, then PUT THEM IN.

    We did. And now somebody is freeing up and releasing some more of what ails this place.

    John, you’re being used by David Miscavige. He’s a clever prick. With prick being the operative term.

  395. maurizio serafini

    Joy that is exactly how I see it.
    that would be consistent with whom Debbie is and always been

  396. That was real good, real good. Thankyou.

  397. The church is below death. It’s an enemy to LRH’s philosophy. It pretends to offer personal and planetary salvation while enjoining its members to sacrifice all dynamics. The church real estate and current participants only provide a base for its destructive activities. Any benefits experienced by its current members only exist to lure and deceive, or by accident. Such harm disguised as help is hard to confront and may seem diabolical but the route taken by the road to truth has no concern for the scenery.

  398. Raul,

    Couldn’t find the whole thing online. Just what I posted.

  399. This is a wise and insightful post. It’s obvious that we all want to see the end of the suffering, the broken families, the financial devastation, and the loss of personal honesty and integrity wrought by the illegitimate head of the church and his enablers. As Windwalker already quoted from the Code of Honor: “Be your own adviser, keep your own counsel and select your own decisions”. To me, this is the paramount point regarding “fence-sitting” – our personal choices are worthless IMO unless they are self-determined (and ideally pan-determined). And frankly, don’t be surprised when somebody reacts with a rousing “fuck you” when they feel they are being evaluated for how they handle their own unique situations.

    It would be interesting to learn the percentage of folks who are interested enough and clinging to enough hope to read this blog but who have an attitude of “I really just don’t give a shit about Scientology any more”. I know that’s how I felt and without the help and guidance of somebody here who has not yet “come out”, I would still feel that way. I’d LOVE to thank them publicly, but I grant them the beingness to reveal themselves when THEY decide it’s the right time. There are some here who need to work on the whole granting beingness thing and I try very hard to be better at it myself.

    I slid off the fence about a month ago by revealing my identity, but I felt like the back of my pants got caught on the barbed wire and I was just hanging there. Something more was obviously needed for me to feel I was taking enough responsibility. I subsequently validated Debbie after her initial email in several messages and friended her on Facebook. I then forwarded her email to several dear friends, one of whom is a Scientology network executive and did my best to help him see the light. He was too indoctrinated to see the light (although agreeing with a surprising number of points) and has sadly disconnected from me.

    Last week during an evening meditation my true condition became visible to me and I began doing the conditions formulas on my own determinism and with enthusiasm. I concluded among many other things that I absolutely HAVE observed correctly applied Scientology technology achieve the predicted results. I am trained in the scientific method (a degree in biology/geology) and my observations of processing results while a C/S were further validated scientifically in the cases I personally observed (lower bridge).

    Finally, several days ago, I physically wrote out a simple, one sentence notice of disconnection from David Miscavage/the church, which I am mailing to the EO at my local org. Although I loathe the church’s practice of disconnection, in this particular instance the policy makes total sense and I feel better (less PTS) as a result. Occasionally, turnabout is fair play. Have I done enough yet to take responsibility? Do I need to protest in front of my local org with Radio Paul? Do I have to write out a doubt formula and do liability in whatever group it is I’m now a part of so I can be trusted? Right now I don’t really know – I will likely need more help, which I’ll respectfully ask for. But whatever the decision, I’LL be the one to make it and you “dastardly” fence sitters out there – jump off when YOU decide you’re ready and not a second sooner. If it helps, I learned there are people out here who will catch you.

    Don Cramer

  400. Raul,

    It is more important to teach/learn/deliver/receive standard LRH tech as that is the most important part of almost all individual’s reasons for departing the the group that has for a long time been a travesty of what LRH intended.

    I concur with Marty and Mike’s take, not because they are ‘right’ and others ‘wrong’, it is my own view based on my own observations and experience and knowledge. Admittedly, they have sometimes helped me to see things differently or more fully, but my decision to be ‘Independent’ was my choice, as it is anyone’s. I have in the past 6 months had to confront the fact that those who remain in support of david miscavige are in fact the percentage who are to expected to remain, just based on tone level. I do have the view that there are many no longer supporting derMidget, but who have taken the ‘safe’ way out and done nothing. They are wrong about it being safe, it is a slide into hell.

    There are those who no longer support derMidget, but are working on various lines and in their own way to help bring him down, known only to a few. The cofs I knew is dead and there is simply no way around that fact, it is a fact. Why would I or anyone want to restore such a dessicated hulk, or whatever you want to call it? Dead is dead. Move on. Deliver the tech as LRH intended. We don’t need no stinking buildings or organization to do that.

  401. Bozz,

    Fortunately, I think I can make it now without an FSM. But, I sure am glad I have you as a friend in my corner. That helps oodles!! 🙂

  402. Li’ll Bit

    Gotcha. Just wanted to be sure that there was no confusion there.
    Thanks for the ack.

    Eric S

  403. Cat Daddy is a great host. 🙂

  404. martyrathbun09 | January 20, 2012 at 1:21 am | Reply

    “Criticalness has nothing to do with anything I am talking about.
    Tune in Pal.”

    Perhaps you’d find it more acceptable if I said the Pilot was saying what Debbie said, anhd yourself, 14 years ago.

    This page is addressed to members of the Church of Scientology.

    Scientology is a religion which seeks to improve the spiritual awareness and abilities of its members by means of auditing (pastoral counseling). This auditing is generally directed to specific areas known as “grades” such as grade zero which addresses communications or grade one which addresses problems. When these grades have not been handled and the person is having difficulties in these areas, the grades are said to be “out”.

    Anyone who has honestly studied the “tech” of Scientology auditing can see that the organization behaves like an individual who has his grades out, stopping communications, committing overt (harmful) acts and justifying them, and becoming embroiled in problems and upsets. They turn a blind eye because they don’t want to criticize the organization or they justify this in some other manner. But it is time to confront the truth and do something about it before the organization sinks under the weight of its own aberrations.

    For those of you who are not Scientologists, please follow the links at the end of this document to find other sites which contain more definitions and explanations.

    Written July 1997, last updated 7/2/97.

  405. Cat Daddy is a great host 🙂

  406. Here’s your sketch. Start with being or having one auditor who is confident he can, and does get results. Get one person who loves to tell people what great results the auditor gets. Charge enough for both of you to survive on the income.
    Keep studying tech so you can get results on more and more cases.

    If that’s all you do, along with delivering a great comm course a couple of evenings during the week or on the weekend, you will do just fine.

  407. Joe Pendleton

    Jethro, at least Bubba leaves you your credit cards, or if he does take them, you can call up your bank and still buy groceries next week. And doesn’t show you endless videos of large contributors getting an air kiss from Davey when they pick up their awards and doesn’t make you talk to Michael Roberts for hours on end…… hey, a session with Bubba is starting to sound…. (I’m kidding, KIDDING!).

  408. Jim,

    That means that he is trying to demean Marty’s self-determined assessment by pinning the blame for it on some imagined third-party SP.

    Personally, when I was taught LRH’s “Third Party Rule” I assessed it as a useless diversion into conspiracy theories unless there was an actual conspiracy afoot. This is similar to the 9-11 “Truthers” who look for a conspiracy of US government officials when the truth of the actual attack was fairly straightforward to ascertain; completely pointless waste of energy that only serves to hamper your ability to judge what is true.

    Applying the TPR to Marty’s assessment that, “The Church is Dead”, and looking for the “SP” who came up with the, “Enemy Line” is not only ridiculous, it’s insulting.

    It’s insulting to Marty because it demeans his ability to make judgments of his own. And it’s insulting to me because it implies that I, as a reader, am gullible enough to believe John’s attempt at distraction.

    “Oh, there must be an SP! Oh Noes! Let’s try to find the REAL enemy, because only an SP would think that the Church is DEAD!”

    Gimme a break.

  409. Words of wisdom………

  410. LDW…

  411. Question With Boldness

    Completely Enraged. Hi! I was in your position a few years ago. If I may be presumptuous and give some advice that may be helpful to you. First of all, do write out an exit plan. Do not do anything rash. Here is what helped me the most: FIND OTHERS WITH THE SAME MINDSET AND TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING THRU!!!! This will help you alot. Talking about your fears, your disappointments with others that have walked down the same path will help you sort it out in your head.

    I know you might not believe me, but many of us here, male or female have been extremely angry for being duped. Do you think that it was easy for any of us that defended the C of S??? Do you remember how the word cult was soooo derogatory??? Anyway, our participation in the C of S was a cult, we just did not know it! You and I and many others here got into C of S to help ourselves, others and the world. Our intentions were incredible!

    There are many very, very nice people here that can help you and befriend you. If I can help you please email me at: It is secure. Set yourself up a hushmail account at a library so it can’t be traced. As you look at this situation, it will get better, you will go up and down the tone scale. You will also be quite surprised at how many of your friends are out once you start looking for them.


  412. Earl Sim

    Don, Hi.
    This is to let you know that ethics is one of my favorite things, and I am hereby offering you any assistance I might be.
    You are welcome to contact me at :

    Eric S

  413. That is true. St. Hill was the breeding ground of the expansion. The two mission holders at my mission were VIIIs, both of which trained in St. Hill for their Class VI courses.

  414. As if there is a qual in the Church. No only is there out tech in the Church, the out tech is clamped in with a straight jacket, with “qual” in the pocket of Mr. David Miscavige.

    I can hear the refrain now: “There may be Out Tech in The Church of Scientology, but at least the auditor star-rated it!”

  415. Random Stranger


    1) Collect up and save all the mail from C of S. It will make quite a pile.

    2) Soak it in some kind of gluten and whip it into a paper-machet type of substance.

    3) Get a steam-roller or two or three or a dozen or whatever to flatten it out into a large thin rectangular shape. It will take a very large parking lot, perhaps either Disney World or possibly a Chinese factory parking lot might do. Come to think of it, you may have to contact Ted Turner about the use of one of his 100,000 acre buffalo meadows.

    4) Use a highway-line painting vehicle, to write on it, “THANK YOU !” on one side and the address for the Int Base on the other.

    5) Call the U.S. Postmaster General and ask him if he could arrange to send a fleet of industrial or military crane helicopters to pick up a very large post card that you want to send C.O.D. to the Church of Scientology headquarters, acknowledging them for sending out more promotional material through the Post Office than any other known entity at any time in the history of the world.

    6) Handle his response accordingly so as to result in the giant post card being delivered via helicopter squadrons directly to the RTC Int building. It will probably be taller than the building so it’ll have to be propped up against the side of it, towering over it. (The “Thank You !!) should be facing outward.

    7) Tom Cruise should be notified ahead of time so he can be in the air in one of his fighter planes, laughing and flying around the helicopters in a frenzied circle.

    8) David Miscavige will be in direct scrambled radio contact with TC, instructing him precisely as to how to buzz the invading choppers and heckle them. Perhaps firing blanks from the wing’s machine guns to frighten them or he could flash them the Laser Stare as he whizzes in close.

    9) All the Int Base staff can throw rocks, bottles, knives, shovels, balloons filled with paint, eggs, old food chunks, fling DVDs and CDs, yell, spit, use vulgar Italian hand gestures, flip gang signs and scream obscenities to protest unauthorized delivery.

    10) Suddenly and all at once, everyone could possibly read the acknowledgement, “THANK YOU !!” and no longer feel they have to send out any more promo. Prompted by circumstance and opportunity, serendipity and insouciance may overtake the staff simultaneously whereby they realize they are being led by a lunatic and so jump on him and put him in a stockade with wheels on it so they can push him around wherever and whenever they want. One of those rubber S & M type balls could be strapped onto his mouth so no one could listen to him.

    Just a few ideas, that’s all.

  416. Most excellently verbalized.

    I’d add one critical factor. The incredible amount of actual fraud perpetrated on the public via miscavige’s fund-raising schemes is bound to hit hard on the Co$ pocket book as more and more pressure is brought by more and more people leaving and demanding justice.

  417. Marty, I for one, really look forward to your up-coming book. I have no idea how you fit writing a book into everything else you do, but whatever the effort you are putting into it, I sure appreciate your effort and I will be first in line to pre-order multiple copies.

  418. Mr. Fancy,
    Thanks for the extwa info.

    And, yes, of course, take a break. I givve you a break. Please. By all means. Take a break. Go now, break time, have a cuppa whatever you like.


  419. Good reference. It sure fits the current situation.

  420. Hang in there, brother. I can’t tell you exactly how to get through it but I can rtell you specifically what helped me – after 35 years “in”, the existential crisis is hard to describe and deal with, I know. I spent entire nights just pacing in my office trying to digest what I was reading while at the same time having to maintain a jam-packed work schedule seven days a week just to keep afloat financially to pay the accumulated debt and support my family. I was fucking pissed beyond belief.

    I started taking sleeping pills, etc. at night to sleep, my blood pressure reached levels where my doctor had to put me on medication, etc. On top of that, I didn’t want anything more to do with the whole subject of Scientology. The first thing that began to change for me was now that I read the dreaded FORBIDDEN INFORMATION ABOUT THE CHURCH, the stops were off and I began reading about almost EVERYTHING: astronomy, the paranormal, quantum mechanics and the “God particle”, and especially alternative paths of enlightenment. I began to feel more alive and part of the real world again.

    I then began occasionally meditating – something I did on a regular basis before I joined the church, and for ME it proved to be the boost I needed and is something that will now always be part of my life. I still have a long way to go on my own journey, but I have a sense of hope at this point as well as a strong desire to do the bridge as well to help me with my spiritual journey. For now I would tell you to become engaged in the things you really love, spend time with and reconnect with your family and loved ones, make new friends, learn to play a musical instrument, go hiking or canoeing, etc. but DON’T fucking worry about whether you’re on the fence or not. Live your life for you and when you are able to calmly confront and obnose your dynamics (God knows I’m still struggling with this), you will undertand what you need to do.

    L, Don Cramer

  421. one of those who see

    Big smile. Love you Jim!

  422. LOL! Talk about synchronicity! I told the friend I mentioned above not two days ago that I really wanted to talk to you someday. You’ll definitely be hearing from me, Eric.

  423. one of those who see

    Ha Ha Perfect!

  424. Thanks PJ.

    As a side note, I do consider the email from Debbie a worthwhile action as it will inevitably create eventual ripple effects on the inside because of her unique position, at least as it was at the moment of writing it.

  425. That’s Service facsimile Fascism. Serfascism. I missed the “s”.

  426. Go Eileen!

  427. Thanks Jim,

    Do you have the ability to copy it in some of format that can be emailed?

  428. Joy,
    I hope you’re right too. I haven’t seen Debbie in person since waaaaaay back when when she was first in CMO CW, and there was a Mission to the Eval Corps. I was a youngin’ Cramming Officer then, she a youngin’ Messenger.

  429. +1, Jim Logan!

  430. martyrathbun09

    terrill, try to have a communication cycle rather than a free association a=a=a. It makes it moderation burdensome when I have to police for off-the-wall gibberish that ignores a direct communication directed at you.

  431. Freedom Fighter

    “But you can take this to the bank – you won’t get people off the fence or out from under the radar by being critical of them or stirring up a clique-like viewpoint about them. It’s too much the same harmonic that cob’s David Miscavige mob has done.”

    Precisely. That mentality is one of the main reasons why I left in the first place. Actually, Troubleshooter, your whole comment is spot-on. Thanks for posting it.

  432. Completely Enraged,
    Smart for you on getting an exit strategy! I alway liken these things to a ‘safety plan’ suggested by many domestic violence organizations to battered women and men. Many who have been out for some years did so quietly, gradually and thoughtfully so as to try and avoid the kind of consequences you are concerned about. You are not alone in needing to remain under the radar. It’s very easy for others to you to jump but they are not walking in your footsteps. You know what is right and just at this time and you know what you stand to lose if you jump too fast. Only you know what is best for you. For preventing a disconnection situation with your loved ones, I suggest you avail yourself of reading up the stories of others who have written up their stories. Many of these discuss disconnection issues. Stories are all over the internet and can be found by google searching Scientology + disconnection . Whatever you do, don’t give in to thinking you have to decide to disconnect from your family in order to be free of the church. You will forever regret it. There are ways to work things out and I encourage you to not give up in making it go right.

  433. LDW

    I see the validity of your sketch **outside** the Co$, but I was asking, from those who believe the Co$ might be salvaged or reconstructed under new management, for a at least a sketch as regards overhead, liabilities, and personnel. Point blank: do any of these reconstruction advocates even know what a financial statement looks like, and understand what “overhead” and “economic viability” means? Does Income less Expenses equals Net Profit make sense to these folks, or is it just a dream that “everything will be alright if we just postulate hard enough”? Someone posted about legal liabilities, and a few people have discussed personnel, but there’s much more involved. The Devil is in the details.

    I can easily take your reply as sarcasm against “Reconstructionist”ideas, but I wanted to at least give their valiant notion a chance to put some flesh on bones. One can dream of giving the world a gift, but at the end of the night, the receipts have to be enough to pay for breakfast. Even if not directed at me, sarcasm is better than being ignored entirely! Oh … wait … maybe I get it.


  434. Completely Enraged, please read the blog from Feb 23, 2011 and feel free to contact me. I understand what you are going through. My first elation lasted about a week, followed by a total plunge due to the failed purposes, lost stable datum, etc. Yes, we didn’t handle it all overnight, but having someone to talk to is extremely helpful, even if it’s only to vent. There’s a great group here in the Pacific Northwest, and we can probably help you find a group in your area that can include you without divulging who you are. Willing to give it a try?….

  435. Well said Tim! 🙂

  436. Dear Completely Enraged,
    Your response is very understandable!
    For whatever it is worth, staff and S.O. members were/are in the same boat.
    They have their heads down and work hard to get the stats up out of pride and/or in order not to get into trouble. No access to Internet or other data. We all saw some things that ‘didn’t seem quite right’ and let it slide. Guilty as stated.

    Apart from simply continuing planning your exit strategy, progress which will give you satisfaction and bring you past the rage on the way up, you might want to take a look back and see where YOU SAW ‘things not quite right’ and let those slide. Responsibility -while highly unpopular- does wonders!

  437. Grasshopper

    ….”It is a fucked situation for us to be in, and it is up to each of us to make up our own minds about what to do about it. …..

    Yes, it is certainly a “fucked situation”. Whether right or wrong I have come to the conclusion that it is pretty unlikely that the Church of Scientology is going to get back on track, or that Scientology, the philosophy and the technology, have much chance of continuing into the future, without the brave souls who have been willing to stand out in plain sight and take the “monster” face on. Many have been mauled ruthlessly, but they did, and do, what they believe is right and necessary. I harken back to the Code of Honor, by L. Ron Hubbard…..

    And I quote…



    It is generally true that you cannot stop a tank with your body, but it is not the tank that you are trying to deal with, it is the tank driver.

    What would have happened in the event that Michael Priv recounted had no one showed up in the square? What about if there had only been twenty people, or a hundred? Chances are that the history of Russia would have been quite different since.

    Think of the real pride of those who were willing to give up their lives to be in that square, on that day. Think of those who only watched from behind closed curtains….

    Well, it seems to have worked. Those in the square made their postulate stick.

    But let’s suppose that those in the square had been mowed down, and their corpses driven over by armored vehicles….

    Well…. look at the same two groups of people (the beings) as above.

    Those who would have died will still have their integrity, and their honor, (if not their bodies). They will move into the future with these things. The ones that stayed hidden and watched… Well… they will probably say that they were right. It was a “fools mission”… but their pride? Their honor? their future?… This will stick on their track.

    I highly recommend that each of us act on our own determinism. I also think that one should consider the consequences of their actions before they act.

    But maybe also consider what I have said above.

    Personally I am proud to be “standing in the square” with my comrades.

    Eric S

  438. Maybe so.
    But please do not forget that since Marty mainly with the help of many others (many still under the so called radar) has been blowing POB’s, pardon David Miscavige’s overts and withholds out of the water a certain amount of changes in the Church of Scientology HAVE TAKEN PLACE, which I’d clearly call REFORMS. It takes the hard pressure and impingement of Truth to bring an altered and ossified church organization to change. Witness specifically 2 examples coming to mind; the end of the enforcement of the Freeloader Bill for ex-S.O. members and pregnant S.O. members are now quite speedily routed out. There are probably quite a few more. These are GREAT products achieved. No matter what lies OSA bots or Speaker of the Church are spouting, the Tone Arm is moving and thus we simply must carry on exposing and delivering, no matter what happens with Debbie.

  439. Sam,wow!
    John N. certainly forgot to take that walk first as recommended and went right into battle. I found it interesting on the LAST blog subject how he came back propitiating with, paraphrased “I am not welcome here”, “nobody wants to hear what I have to say”, a state of not-beingness and such pleas for sympathy and look back at all of the nice encouraging responses he got to coax him right back into a state of beingness. Ah! Service Facsimile at work and now he shoots poison at ‘his’ group over a stupid word -‘dead’.

  440. TroubleShooter


    That is an amazing, touching story of survival and a group pulling together, the kind of story movies are made of. I am not sitting on the fence Michael. So many not on the fence but are under the radar. The contemplation of having ones eternity taken away is what cob has created. It’s vital that those who read this blog know that they can get standard tech in the field. They are being told there is NO SUCH THING and that ONLY squirrel tech is out here. We can thank those who ARE squirreling it for that in addition to the church’s pat response. There IS a need to make it known that standard tech is alive and well in the Indy field ALL OVER. This we can do.

  441. TroubleShooter

    I agree with you Maurizio and you’re lucky to have each other as a friends.

  442. Good description Tim,
    Just to preent a further battle or misunderstood: you probably mean ‘hatting’ and ‘re-hatting’ rather than a hate related word (hating).

  443. Completely Enraged

    Thank you, all of you, for your supportive comments and offers of help. It really helped to be acknowledged and to know that I am going through what others have gone through too. I’ve got a lot of work ahead of me to get myself squared around, and one of these days I will take you up on your offers to communicate with me. Thanks again.

  444. Completely Enraged

    Thank you once again for your offers of help and support (see my post above as well)

  445. one of those who see

    night time on Friday. Just watched the video. Great Song. Thought of how good I feel that you (Marty) are there doing what you do. Sweet dreams.

  446. EC,

    I would hope there were 100’s of similar stories like mine out there right now. I believe there are.

    Regardless of the highly commendable years of work and time put in on this blog or Steve’s web site along with all of the battles fought and won to keep it here by every single person ever involved (whether behind the scenes or out on the front lines) all in an attempt to reveal the truth to those who will look, while accepting the cold hard fact that some never will, unfortunately, I (for one), had no clue that either site existed.

    I’d been offlines due to my upset with the Ideal Org programs for some time. I kept it to myself and just read or listened to lectures “mulling in it” while using what tech I could in my daily affairs for several years. “My” self-determinism kicked in when I first decided not to go back because it wasn’t LRH and it was a huge loss for me.

    Then, about 8 months ago, I was referred via email to the Indie 500 list by a family member with a pending Declare. I found GREAT comfort and relief in finding others (like me) on these sites. I was not going to “disconnect” and it was nice to know I wasn’t alone anymore!

    I totally understand the concept of not judging others by their inactivity, as as you mention. Given that, I realized I needed to clarify my original comment re: being impressed with those who had not asked me to “stop sending it” as it appears as if : a). I’m OK with rewarding non production or downstats or b) I’m being covertly critical about Marty’s blog. Not the case on either.

    *The orginal email w/Debbie’s letter was sent to TONS of my contacts in a “group” FB email or “conversation”. All responses, comments (negative or positive) including “ask-offs” are visible to all other recipients. If a person leaves the conversation, it is visible to myself Some left immediately and never returned. Some however, are returning and leaving more than once a day. The email/conversation has transformed into what resembles a blog. Several contacts even unexpectedly “spoke up” and took up for me (with a fever) when others were rude, etc. I must say it is nice to be in comm with these people again too. I’ve been totally out of comm!

    I am obviously impressed and happy with those who got in comm with me (at length in private) following my first email with Debbie’s letter, but I’m quite impressed with those that are still in the conversation and are at least “looking” at Marty’s blog. (About 65% of the entire list, fyi)

    So..will those that are still “in” the conversation make a move from there? Maybe, maybe not. We’ll see.

  447. Jim Logan,
    You are definitely one of the best Qual terminal we have in the Independent Field. I really think it is the “Golden Age of Tech” training under Miscavige that is creating problems with some of these auditors & their PCs in the field. It would be a great idea if they come and see you for some standard training and standard false data stripping so they can regain confidence and are able to get results with their PCs. A confident auditor will have happy PCs. Just an idea.

  448. Jim Logan,
    You are definitely one of the best Qual Terminals. I truly believe, it is the “Golden Age of Tech” training that screwed up some of our great auditors. It would be a great idea for those auditors who would like to regain confidence so they can get results with their PCs, to receive standard training and false data stripping by you. A confident auditor will always have happy PCs.

  449. Actually, I think the absolute best thing is the Web. Having multiple electronic copies of the work spread out on servers across the globe ensure that the tech will always be available. An “LRH Wiki” could be set up in a country like the Netherlands to document material that has been entered into the public domain through being entered as evidence in the many lawsuits that the CoS has entered into.

  450. ditto. let’s see if this “reply” to Sam’s “Moderator” post actually is a reply or hits the bottom of the page?

  451. Li'll bit of stuff

    Hello again Claire, perfect advice to anyone held up
    by this dilemma. Easy,practical steps to follow, when
    ready to make the big move! Luv’ Li’ll bit.

  452. Li'll bit of stuff

    Randy, pleased to ‘meet’ you and although I’ve never been
    on staff, like you, I must say that I supported my dear wife in becoming a Class V interned, through those glory days
    in the early 70’s, and from the sidelines as a student and
    lower level auditing, I had enormous wins and gains which
    I have maintained to this day. The LRH ‘steered’ orgs were
    indeed a fun place to learn and move up in. Sadly, no more!

    We definitely are witnessing the fissures and cracks in the
    RCS spreading and probably approaching 6.0 according to
    my readings on the Rinder scale. Won’t be long now. POB
    is accelerating the inevitable implosion, all by himself! He
    insists on taking all the credit for every thing, Right?

    At any rate, all the real power to restore Scn to it’s former
    workable state is right here and functioning, with the Indies, this amazing, gifted, razor sharp bunch of intellectuals,
    comedians and nutcases, all making up the gang of Real

    Every bit of success to you and your wife in the interesting
    times ahead!

    ARC, Li’ll bit

  453. Dear BT,

    I’ve LONG ago since not been the person ex members communicate to.
    (I get mainly calls from family, sort of the traffic that used to go to the original “Cult Awareness Network”, I try to help families get their family out of official Scientology.

    Like Karen #1 said a year or two ago, Marty’s the man who David Miscavige most fears can “harm” Miscavige (Marty’s actually just putting Miscavige’s ethics in, if you really want to review even LRH policy, Marty’s the one who wanted sit-downs with Misacavige to discuss big things, before Marty finally left since Miscavige was NOT gonna sit down and have anyone criticize Miscavige in a real sitdown with him about the movement’s direction).

    Naw, that phase is over. People with hot good news, GO TO MARTY AND MIKE and to Karen Delacarriere, contact them with the latest, first!

    People lower down the totem pole, I love history, and love people wanting to tell all the nooks and crannies.

    Right now, I’d love more middle management, HGB level staff to PLEASE contact me, with raw info of the Int Stats that they’ve seen of the health of the orgs around the world, which the HGB staff who are Org Flag Officers and any of the remaining Management Bu staff, would love for Curt Hahn types, if they blow, to reveal the true long range state of org stats.

    I love seeing people interview each other on video, since we need MORE firsthand history people who know and lived it together, interviewing each other on video, and putting it up on YouTube for all to have!

    And more books! John Duignan’s book, “The Complex”, is a subject that could be gone way more in detail. “The History of the Complex” all itself would be an interesting read, at least to me. “The History of the HGB”. “The History of Gilman Hot Springs”. “The History of ASI”, etc., etc. “The History of CLOEU” People could write, those inclined to write, of their time slot and what they recall and what they were told or read about even earlier history at those locations.

    Books could be done on any period, any echelon, of the movement’s history.

    Think history, think leaking history, that’s legitimate, and it’s a higher principled human endeavor, and the chat sites, Clambake, Ex Scn (ESMB), will gladly take all stories.

  454. And I salute you. But you have to remember that the Code of Honor is also used to recruit into the SO, to support the IAS, and all that other stuff. The SO kid who disconnects from his or her mother because she is independent is “practicing” the same Code of Honor.

    To my mind, it is the right decision to become independent. It may or may not be the right decision to come out publicly – I believe there is value in not being in the public eye when working friends and family. Especially my family, who has been involved intimately since before the GO was created.

    I have been involved with huge family blowups about Scientology. Shoving crap into people’s faces does not work, as I learned the hard way. But, reasoned discussions, seed-planting, and casual references do work, and are working in my case.

    A war is fought on many fronts.

  455. Now you’re making me cry 🙂

    I have exactly the same issues and made all the same mistakes you describe too. And I’ve also found that just talking to people nicely usually gets results.

    You’re not alone in this, there’s at least one other person in the world struggling with the same issues. Maybe we should help each other out from time to time?

    Alan (who hasn’t posted for a long time but reads the blog daily)

  456. Haughty and Arrogant, not going to help the person who has real struggle going on here!

  457. Grasshopper

    Yes. I am with you on all that.

    A person’s self determinism and willingness to be “cause” trumps all.

    It has been said “there are many ways to skin a cat.”

    It has also been said that there are gradients in all things.

    And so there are.

    Eric S

  458. Raul,

    I cannot find anything to disagree with in your reply. I think there might be a miscommunication by what I meant by “what would LRH want us to do”.

    The LAST thing that question means to me is that I should follow him or anyone else robotically, or fail to observe, think and decide for myself.

    I have always had utter contempt for those who, for every situation they encounter in life, have an LRH quote to throw at you – it sounds to me just like the robots in China who used to quote from Mao’s Little Red Book at every turn, rather than look and decide for themselves.

    I would not follow LRH or anyone else over a cliff, and I am quite confident in my ability to think, observe, and decide for myself. There are plenty of things I’ve heard him say that I did not agree with, and there are plenty of things I saw him do (not personally, but via policy letters, EDs, and even sometimes HCOBs) that I did not agree with.

    Having said that, there were many many more things he said and did that WERE true for me, based on my own experience and observations.

    However, once I began to train up to be an auditor, a couple of things became clear to me. Whether they are true for others, I can’t say.

    1. Man tends to alter-is pretty much everything, especially a workable technology, until the original becomes unrecognizable and is therefore lost.

    2. We have a workable technology in Scientology. It should be kept as “pure” (ie, standard) as possible, not because we are robotic zealots a la various other religions, but because it IS demonstrably workable and it would be a pro-survival thing to keep it workable for others down the line.

    3. One of the reasons LRH created the CoS was to ensure the tech would stay standard. He may have had other reasons for setting up the Church, upper orgs etc, but surely one of them was that he thought it would help ensure the workability and survival of the tech.

    During many of my years as a professional auditor, ASHO, AO, Flag existed as beacons of standard tech. They were there to help, and for the most part, their help was needed, it was good and it was valuable. It helped me be a better auditor, and therefore, the help I provided to others was more valuable than it might otherwise have been.

    So the real reason I believe an attempt should be made to resuscitate the church along the lines of LRH’s intent is NOT just because LRH intended it, but because my own experience, my observations, lead me to conclude that in this case (and many others) LRH’s intent aligns with survival across the majority of dynamics.

    (See for a thorough analysis of what the structure intended by LRH should have been and how it should have functioned).

    There is another reason too – no matter what LRH’s intent, a reformed church can no longer have a monopoly on the technology. THIS is the key point, IMO. Were it not for the monopoly it has enjoyed, the church could not have morphed into the monster it has become under DM or anyone else.

    Thanks primarily to the internet, the church will never again have total control over the “keys to the kingdom” of the bridge.

    A reformed, restructured church with checks and balances would only survive to the degree it provided services of VALUE to practitioners of the tech, and to the public. The monopoly has been broken and that genie can never be put back into the bottle.

    In short, I believe there is a place for a reformed church, because there are some Keeper of Tech functions that would best be provided by a central organization. Whether or not it makes sense to try and root out all the rot that has infected the current organization, I can’t say. As Mike Rinder says (below), it might be a Sisyphean effort. I think it is worth a serious try, however, and part of that opinion is based, I freely admit, on loyalty to LRH – the other part based on my experience.

    A long post, and perhaps moot given that we’ve moved on from this thread – but I wanted to get this rebuttal on the record for anyone who might want to put me into the “whatever LRH says, goes” camp.

  459. StillAnonymous

    Joy, I held the same viewpoint before Debbie turned me in to OSA. I know she did it as I was anonymous and I became target of handling after writing to her.

    If you want to keep under the radar, listen to Marty and do not write to her. Later on Debbie will understand but for now she is working for OSA.

    If you got turned in apply What is Greatness and then fight back.

    Still Anonymous

  460. martyrathbun09

    Debbie didn’t turn anyone over to OSA. This comment and identity is questionable.

  461. Grasshopper,

    As I see it, the only way out of that mess is to realize that the High Crimes were not written with the current scene in mind. As written, they assume that a whole bunch of things that should be, are still true; things like standard tech really is still standard, that management exists and does a fine job, people are finding out how to think for themselves and not having their wallets raped.

    Only when people see for themselves that these things are no longer true, will they then see that NOT committing those High Crimes is itself a far bigger High Crime. And that one requires a high ability to think with data and recognize the moment when the spirit of the rules must trump the letter of the rules.

    It’s a paradox, no doubt about it.

    I’ve learned more about what Scientology was intended to be from this blog in two years than in 20 years on Org lines. If you asked me what the most important datum is I’ve learned it would have to be that granting beingness to others and not making them wrong is the only way out of this mess. It’s (very) hard to do this and I know for sure that I myself am mostly hopeless at it, but it’s still the only workable way out. All in my own opinion of course.

  462. Hi John:
    Sorry but the number 1.1 keeps coming to my mind when reading your comments.

  463. one of those who see

    For some reason this comment and one other were not put under the right comment. My comment of “Ha Ha Perfect” was meant to be under Grasshopper’s comment part of which said “I can hear the refrain now: “There may be Out Tech in The Church of Scientology, but at least the auditor star-rated it!”

  464. What you’re actually wrestling with is an issue of whether or not you will submit your lives and thoughts to the total control of another.

    In writing this “Code of Honor”, LRH actually inserted a requirement for you to be faithfully obedient to an organization-HIS organization.

    In setting up the “8 dynamics” he also required you to place the “higher” dynamics in more importance than yourself; and of course he set up the CoS in charge of the highest dynamic above them all. This reinforced the idea that you are less important than the group-HIS group.

    In other words, LRH made it clear on many levels that the individual was subordinate to the group which was under his sole control. Is it any wonder that the logical extension was made by David Miscavige was that your work, money, loyalty, children and lives were his to do with as he pleased in order to further his personal vision for the group?

    Personally, I prefer the philosophy of the Founding Fathers; that government (i.e. groups) exist to secure the rights of the individual; not the other way around. When the group fails to protect individuals, the group fails to be legitimate, and people have the right to destroy that group and rebuild another one that *does* secure their rights.

  465. Greta.. You make some very good points to recmember.. Nothing unique about a group making a lot of sacrifices for the cause they espouse.. nothing whatsoever ‘unique’… to the contrary… it;s been a vital part of just about EVERY BATTLE EVER FOUGHT.. right?

  466. Picket with signs saying “Avoid These Fakes! The Real, Good Scientology Is Available Outside This Cult.”

  467. WHOA! This cannot be the same John Nunez who just a couple of days ago posted this comment in this very thread:

    And has posted extremely pro-Independence posts with extensive LRH references……

    And it cannot be the same John Nunez who has been essentially saying that the CoS is indeed ‘dead’ for at
    least 3 years – as in this post:

    And that we have recently (December 14th) had a poster (“Raymond”) here who by his own admission has been able to freely hijack the handles and avatars of others, posting whatever he wanted to in their names…..

    This “John Nunez” attacking Marty is a fake doing 3P.

  468. Bozz,

    We have in fact had a hacker (“Raymond”) on this blog who hacked identities and avatars, and posted whatever he wanted to post under other’s names.

    He was apparently not OSA and not necessarily even a Scientologist himself, but if he could do it, others can as well. And if he was amoral, he could well have informed OSA on how to do it, or sold the technique to them.

  469. Mr.Fancy, I do not interpret the Dynamics and the Code of Honor as you do. Quite the reverse, apparently.

    The fact is, each person comprises the 8 Dynamics within himself. They are HIS OWN Dynamics, not David Miscavige’s or anyone else’s. Thus one is the sole arbiter of how he conducts himself with regard to HIS OWN Dynamics, all 8 of them. The buck always stops with you, not anyone else.

    It’s the same with government. If you don’t take responsibility for it, it is liable to ‘take responsibility’ for you – to your own sorrow.

  470. It is John Nunez and the Independents under attack here – it is not John Nunez attacking anyone, it is an impostor/hacker using blatant 3P.

    The real John Nunez has come out strongly supportive of Independents on recent threads and this is viewed as a threat to David Miscavige.

  471. I see compulsive “making sacrifices” as self-victimization that one can get quite addicted to.

    At any rate, I don’t remember reading any LRH policy that stated “sacrifice” as a needed and wanted action. Imho, the action of needing “sacrifice” indicates a condition of Liability, Emergency or Danger. None of these are what LRH policy calls Normal.

    Stats are a measure of production, not the product themselves. Unfortunately, from my perspective, far too many Executives in the RCS, from ALL levels, for far too long, have engaged in stat pushing rather than real production. THIS is what results in lower conditions and the false need for “sacrifice”.

    I never read anything that LRH wrote that indicated getting someone’s ethics in good shape on their dynamics so they could take advantage of hatting and processing was “pampering” or “coddling”.

    But, you have your experiences, and I have mine. Therefore you and I will have to agree to disagree.

  472. I can attest to the fact that it is dangerous to be “on the sidelines” in this matter. Case in point: when the email from Debbie Cook was found on my computer at the org, I was immediately taken off my post as an HGC Auditor, while my folders were sent up-lines by OSA in order to be programmed for “special handling.” Now I’m stuck in the situation where I have no choice but to have Black Scientology be applied to me, and then “repent” and come back into the fold. Or, leave and be declared an SP.

    So, Marty is entirely correct in stating that if you want to stay on the fence, then you need to stay away from Capt. Cook. Otherwise, you will be forced to make a decision. And either way that choice will be painful.

    I for one am glad that Debbie has given me an excuse to now walk in the light. I’m tired of being hung up in doubt and the effect of this PTS situation. Come what may, I can at least now say that I stood up for what I know is right.

  473. Pingback: Thanks For Participating | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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