Scientology Inc has denied that they are behind any disconnections that its parishioners may wish to participate in. They say the latter are only engaging in the protected, voluntarily activity of exercising their religious right to “shun.” They contend in court and in the media that Corporate Scientology has nothing to do with the process and does not advise nor participate in advising, let alone ordering, anyone to disconnect from anyone.
Well, meet Veronique operating from churchofscientology.net:
To: (removed for personal safety)
Subject: Your facebook
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 04:59:31 +0000
Hi again,Did you get my last email? I thought it might have bounced.I wasn’t sure if you were aware of it or not so I thought I would alert you. But you have a declared SP currently on your facebook account. Her name is Debbie Jean Cook. If you want to remove her and need any help getting her off your facebook account don’t hesitate to ask. Just email me back and I will assist you on this.ARC, Veronique
Background references, disconnect stories from this blog:
Well same at Mexican Organizations with their parishioners you can see (google translate it please) is the same line being pushed to Latinamerican Scientology Churches.
On that link you can even see the real conversations inside facebook accounts (will be on the pdf being shown).
The naughty girl using work email for personal reasons! She should be sacked on the spot as this might give the impression the church of scientology was officially advising parisioners on how to disconnect from people, which in (british) corporate speech is “bring the firm in to disrepute” and a sackable on the spot offence.
I notice the shift away from denying disconnection, it’s “shunning” now like what them Armish do.
Since it is easy to set up and send emails from a cut out (OSAbot@gmail.com or OSAclone@yahoo.com etc).at first I thought the use of this email address was an act of desperation (and I’m sure it is) but what it also signifies is the fact that they are having trouble getting everyone to drop Debbie Cook so need to up the fear factor. After all, that is the only factor they know.
The other thing that stands out is the fact that it drips with covert hostility.
Disconnection alerts were sent to several of me and my wife’s friends on facebook. These alerts was sent by LC Malmo Ideal Org Monica Rohrig.
Some of our friends told her to fuck off.
T, Can you send these to me by email – email@example.com – for evidentiary purposes?
Facebook Nazis! ~lol
I recently had an MAA from the Freewinds here in Taiwan to specifically
“handle me” for my failure to communicate and my connections to
known SPs. She was talking about other OT8s who had gone over to
the “dark side” that I was still connected to on Facebook.
Anyway, I refused to talk to her and refused to look at her DA pack she
bought with her. I basically told her I would not see a bunch of
derogatory made up facts about OTs or Ex SO members who had
given so much to further SCN.
She then proceeded to go around to all my friends here and tell
them to handle me before I am declared SP. I was expected to
disconnect from my SP Facebook friends or else. It was not
going well and I refused to cave.
Then the strangest thing happened. Max de Groot, her senior from
the ship contacted me and told me how she was out of line and
was wrong to do things the way she did. Huh?
So I was declared a couple of days ago for my connection to the
enemies of the group and for refusing to pay that criminal out-exchange
agency here called I “HELP.” And then I HELP started to
talk to my pcs about how evil I am. Of course that backfired 🙂
When will they ever learn?
I completed OT8 a few years ago. I was an Auditor at Sydney Org
for 8 years and have been a field auditor in Taipei, Taiwan for the
last 11 years.
I am happy to be out and happy to have arrived here. 🙂
Phil de Fontenay
Thank you Marty. I love what you have done with the place 🙂
What amazes me completely is that anyone receiving a letter such as this would follow it!!!! Shows how ignorant some people truly are!!! No one has the right to tell anyone who they can and cannot be friends with.
Welcome Phil! Great to have you hear. I love that icon next to your name too. Very cool.
Sounds a little bit like…….don’t buy from the jews…….
I will have a look.
Wow congratulations! Would love to see a posting with a pic and more details about your journey! Welcome out!!!
OSA is stupid.
Debbie is becoming more and more interesting to Kool-Aid-Drinkers, the more they try to enforce their disconnection “policy”.
Facebook Nazis, fitting title! What it really shows is how scared DM is that there could be ANY connection to any person that KNOWS. It does indeed remind me of the Nazi time when Reichspropagandaminister Goebels ordered extreme penalties (up to death penalty) for listening to “Enemy Radiostations” at the beginning of WW II. It was called “Rundfunkverbrechen” (Radio crime).
I was asked by DSA to remove an alleged SP from my friends on facebook (by email). It would be a crime to be connected to that person.
Thanks Margaret 🙂
Yeah nice icon right? I will be using it for a website about Taiwan.
About a year ago my 82 year old mother phoned my 52 year old brother (who had already disconnected from my sister and myself a year earlier), my mother had been following all of my brothers wishes & instructions until that point but was beginning to question his odd behaviour,
On answering the phone my brother said to his elderly mother , “ I don’t know if I am suppose to talk to you, let me find out if I am allowed to, and if so call you back later”
I suppose he had to ask someone what HE really wanted to do!?
Thanks Betsy, and yes that is coming soon as well as some surprises
for the Taiwanese Sea Ogres
Many people are now keeping their facebook friends list private, which will make policing facebook a lot harder. Time for Veronique to get a real job… ya think?
Welcome Phil! Thanks for posting. The more the merrier! And practicing field auditors are always especially welcome. LRH wasn’t kidding when he said auditors are the most valuable beings on the planet. Hope we hear more from you…
I had MAAs call my friends and let them know, then they called the Facebook Nazis and started the campaign. I was tracking the disconnects and dropped over 100 in a short period of time. Then another 100 after that. It was ordered from the church to some OLs and then ordered by those OLs to the rest of my connections. All based off lies, and very few willing to even ask why. Those that did ask still disconnected anyway out of fear and domination and not wanting to “get involved”.
I have saved most of the messages that I have been sent over the past year telling me to disconnect from people on Facebook. Many of them have been dumb enough to say they were doing this on behalf of OSA. I also spoke with a terminal last week at OSA Int who informed me of a recent declare and told me I could go ahead and start alerting all of our mutual Facebook friends.
G’day Mike! Thanks, I have been enjoying reading your posts.
I merely removed all Church contacts as friends except those I had a personal connection to. Debbie remains as a friend. A request for any of my Facebook friends to remove another friend from my friend list would prompt their own removal and a “what the hell????” verbal response. There is just no valid reason for the request. Facebook allows someone to block all communication from or viewing of specific people if you don’t like other people’s friends, so a request like that is purely a campaign of harassment. Plus it is truly juvenile behavior. I am amazed that grown ups actually followed these marching orders.
I think the press should all be sent a copy of TR L (TR LIE). Then they could ask Tommy about it. It would be a study in body language to ask Tommy,
” Tommy are you using TR L right now in this interview?”
But on the downside, any curious person would want to know how this training routine came about. And it was practiced by B1 before Miscavige.
I think it should be outed. It’s the very training that causes them to be so devious and repulsive in the media.
Trained Liars: how disgusting.
Well done to you Phil and welcome!
Phil just befriended me on FB today! Hahaha, now I see him here, hearing he is OT8 and a Field Auditor for some years now! Hahaha!
How wonderful is life when communication is open.
Facebook, we have to acknowledge, and the Internet, are a new new thing. It’s OT stuff! They are here to serve the good and serve Mankind as the SPs fight to cut ALL comm lines possible within the old infrastructure.
The Internet has nuked space and time… we are all now living on a more theta line with less MEST. It would take me hours or maybe months to go meet Phil, whereas now we are friends on FB and teammates here within minutes.
And so that you know Phil about me you can google Theo Sismanides and find my write ups about Translations back from 2000.
And yes you were right about ex-SO having given so much to further SCN. I fell for Standard Tech as many others did, even before me.
We are all now COMING BACK.
Thank you Carol, happy to be here
Crusader, this is what the hat of those “under the radar” is. Hahaha, counter espionage… I love it. Keep it up and keep the data in case it will be needed, but let me tell you the way Theta goes here, hahaha, we won’t give any evidence. The Tone Level of the SPs these days is Can’t Hide. Fallen down to Can’t Hide from Hide which was some years ago. Apocalypto in Greek mean to Uncover. If there was some Apocalypse I would say these are the days we Uncover SPs, all around the Planet. DM is one of them. And it’s not just me saying it like it was 10 years ago. With the advent of the Internet many more people see that others say it too. So, it’s a Can’t Hide for Dave now… what’s the next tone level, I forget?
Yes the communication lines are wide open. So cool.
I will check out your write-ups.
To fence sitters, and those under the radar: If there is one thing I can’t stand it’s someone telling me whom I can talk to and whom I can’t. About 9 months ago I got rid of all the KAers on my FB, and then kept my friends list private. It’s the point of taking a causitive stance. I suggest you do the same.
Corporate SCN implements disconnection 100%. its alive and well
About disconnection from family by another group.
The NLR Nazi Low riders (street gang originated in Oilfield California
in the 1990’s) Uses Disconnection as a recruiting tool for new members
( product is Bank robbery and illegal drug sales) They will promote themselves (NLR) as thier New Family while making threats and hostile
invalidation about actual family mebers on about everything imaginable from the food they eat to music they listen to.
This was so much a successful action on recruitment that they had a hiring freeze on Gang members. Thats True, they had an over abundance of new members who wanted to Rob Banks and sell Drugs.The solution was
(after an extensive eval) You can only join the Nazi Low Riders if you had done hard time in Prison,therefore a hardened and seasoned criminal.
So I dont know what came first ,the chicken or the egg but ultimately disconnection to bolster membership numbers no matter what the product or goal bodes not very well . You need to pull withholds and pull strings,
investigate to get at real scene.Again discovering truth is risky business
at tone 1.5 and below.
Is Tommy Davis still around to be asked, haven’t seen him in a while.
Another great example of the bs that spews from this “church” is the recorded conversation between
international spokespersonTommy Davis and a chap named Shane Clark. Shane was an employee of Marc Headley at the time and you can clearly hear TD tell Shane to disconnect and what will happen if he refuses. http://bit.ly/prRKxM (Village Voice)
This is the same group that “promotes” a philosophy built on the principles of self-determinism, communication and truth. At the same time it will piss on those things at the drop of a hat. Why? Control. Power. Wealth.
If the “Church of Scientology” is unable or unwilling to apply basic Scientology, what logical reason is there to remain a part of it? Wtf does it even stand for anymore? What does it represent?
Why would anyone buy from a business that doesn’t even value its product?
BTW. Naz i Low Riders have there own version of TR L..
They practice just like in an academy ( academy of crime)
so as to get it perfect and get a pass on the lie.
You listen to the lie and actually start to believe the Gang Banger passed the BAR Exam.
Just like you know who,the NLR has millions to spend on Lawyers and Private investigators.
Average recruitment age for a gang member is 12 years old.
Not only that, but he added his name to the Indie 500 list. There are only 186 places left on this historic document of solidarity intended to help break the back of David Miscavige’s illegal disconnection policy which was cancelled by LRH in 1968. The list demonstrates there is a strong 3rd dynamic outside Miscavige’s nightmare. When you are ready, send your name to me at firstname.lastname@example.org. Please include,
year started in Scientology
years on staff if any
any awards or recognition you care to include
You can also include your city if you want or more. By including this data we show we are versed in the subject and know the score.
I took all my friends still in the church off my facebook. Now I have churchies who know I have been declared trying to friend me. LoL! Guess they lost their ability to spy on me. Sad these folks are really dramatizing an implant.
Welcome Phil. Would love to hear some goings on in Taiwan
Inherent In these pages are the seeds of difficulty that free people face.
Highly trained operatives hell bent on “destroying the enemy.”
Look in the mirror
All of us as church members, have been influenced by, and agreed with, individuals at the highest levels, who created the very environment, that has your freedom in it’s cross hairs as diabolical sport to save the world.
This is an ideological and foundational problem intimately woven into the dogma that has been deified as scripture, AND WORD CLEARED. Oy vey!!. It is basic basic to this militaristic bullshit. In my opinion, of course.
Hi again,Did you get my last email? I thought it might have bounced.I wasn’t sure if you were aware of it or not so I thought I would alert you. But you have a declared SP currently as your boss. His name is David Miscavige. If you want to remove him and need any help getting him off your lines and out of your life, don’t hesitate to ask. Just email me back and I will assist you on this.
P.S. Don’t forget to “Like” me on FB and win a free personal scanning of your entire list of FB friends who will also recieve a copy of THIS email.
We think he’s holed up somewhere. Not in “the hole,” of course, cos that doesn’t exist.
“Scientology Inc has denied that they are behind any disconnections that its parishioners may wish to participate in.”
My friend of 20 years called me from the MAA’s office to tell me I was declared and that he was disconnecting. This after sending out some 3p on several other disaffected church members in an email to me and another friend. On the one hand I do give my friend some credit because he didn’t believe the MAA. On the downside he folded like so much wet paper under the MAA’s watchful eye. So much for voluntary.
Crusader, forward them, untouched, to Marty and Mike. This can be significant evidence in Debbie’s trial.
Hi Mike. I see your action as proactive as a defensive measure. But it would seem as much as being at effect as cause. Causative would be more on the order of telling them to f— off. I dont think those under the radar need to remove all church folks from their facebook pages and crawl up into a ball or under a rock. We need to keep all the lines wide open and not become the effect of them. Controlling whats posted on ones wall can be done without any disconnection.
Really interesting cycle. It is the enforced disconnection-enforced connection cycle of the SP.
Mike, its also odd that you protest anyone telling you who you can and cannot talk to and then suggest everyone cuts off their scn friends still in the church. Contradiction?
I suppose if those under the radar and already independent eliminate from their friends lists those still drinking the cool-aid, then they will never see some of the independent minded postings which appear on their “walls”. You wouldnt want that, would you?
TR L (TR LIE).
You have got to be kidding. Someone actually created a TR to train people to lie convincingly? Good lord….
I went to the local org not too long ago and was given a PTS Type A declare. Well, I wasn’t actually GIVEN the paper, I was shown it, but hey, at least I got to see it!
I was told that I was declared PTS Type A because I was connected to people no longer in good standing with the “church”.
Before I could ask how they “knew” I was connected to these “bad” people, I was told that I had friends on FaceBook who had been declared suppressive, people who had “attacked” the church. .
So, I said with a straight face, you want me to un-friend them?
The OSA person failed to see the humor in all of this and carefully explained that they wanted me to do more than simply un-friending the people in question. Specifics were not given, but it was implied that I also needed to do some sort of metered ethics interview and other ethics “handlings” to satisfy them that I was dis-infected.
I declined and was told that the ethics gradients would be “stiffened”.
I have not heard anything since…
Mike, I haven’t done diddly squat with my Facebook friends list. Part of declaring my independence from the corporate church was a re-assumption of ownership of my personal integrity on the 3rd dynamic.
As such, I’m operating 100% in the sunshine, and don’t give a damn who knows it. Matter of fact, the more the merrier. If someone wants to be a good little Nazi and disconnect from me because the SS told them to, well, that’s their flunk.
They can google my name and find my Declaration of Independence write-up here, and at Steve Hall’s site in the blink of an eye, and see for themselves. If they want to allow someone else to do their looking for them, that’s fine by me. It’s their loss.
I think you just coined a very useful word, my friend. Congrats!
I did a good deal of my growing up in South Central L.A. and know the criminal sort you refer to. Thank God my family got the hell out of there in the early 70s. At 19, I attended my first Dianetics lecture at the old L.A. org in 1973, and never looked back.
Nanook — nest step on the RCS Ethics Gradients is telling your friends that you are disaffected, then alerting the Facebook Keystone Kops, then informing your friends you are declared SP (doubtful you will ever see that issue) and then telling your friends you are a child molester and serial rapist. It’s green on white all way…
I had one FB nazi org staff (not even my FB friend) tell me to disconnect with one of my FB friends who was not declared SP but who had a friend who was declared SP …
And one FB friend org public who told me not to befriend another org public as that person was soon declared …
So it goes …
AMEN … Insanity it is!
State of fear.
There goes one’s ability to think and evaluate for oneself …
With FB user data at hand I guess the church’s FB nazi I/C has plenty to do these days of massive exodus …
Yeah, it’s your own “free choice”. Except if you don’t, you will be declared and shunned and lose your spiritual eternity, and we will use the same pressure to force your family, friends, business associates and customers to disconnect from you. It’s your free choice though.
So very happy you are still auditing!
Glad you arrived here too.
Bizarre, indeed. My Kool-Aid drinking brother disconnected from me after we exchanged a few emails about my going Independent. Of six siblings, he and I are the only Scientologists in the bunch. I got to wondering after he disconnected, just what effect that’s going to have on other familial relations.
I stopped wondering pretty quickly, and wrote a letter to all of my non-Scn family members, informing them of my decision to cut ties with the corporate church, while retaining my allegiance to my religion. I got some wonderful acks from all of them, along with a full granting of beingness.
Is that utterly ironic, or what?
HCOB 28 May 1960 BY THEIR ACTIONS…
By their actions you shall know them, whether good or bad, whether on another’s side or ours.
And what in their actions gives us the keenest insight? Their ability to help.
Some think that help cannot be done. Shun them. Some think that help is always an effort to betray. Process them for here you have the criminals of Earth.
Some people cannot help. They can only injure and destroy. And if in the name of help they only injure and destroy then know them carefully for they are criminals.
What is a criminal? One who thinks help cannot be on any dynamic or uses help on anyone to injure and destroy.
Who are these men with covert ways who bring Earth it’s pain? They are the men who cannot help. Who are the women who must be helped but who can only maim? They say, these men and women, that they’ll help and then make a thorough shambles of it all.
From where did Earth conceive her traps and aspects that are grim? Earth would be a lovely place if all men helped to help, not to destroy.
Think heavily on this point. Judge men from what they think of help. Judge women too and find the good ones from the bad.
The good can help. The bad will not, or if they do, they “help” only to betray.
The good of Earth comes from above the point of make and break where help is help and honesty. The pain of Earth comes from the tones where help does not exist or where it’s used to pull us into agony.
Know your friends. It’s strange that those who argue with us against our goals and Scientology cannot conceive of honest help. Discuss help with them and you’ll find their tone and whether they are worth a lot as friends.
This is the test that you can use to separate the good from the bad and then clear-eyed begin to make a world in which all life can live.
L. Ron Hubbard
Way to go Phil!!
You just took out another faux gold pillar!!!
Do you work with Helen Chen? She’s out too, along with her husband.
Thanks for coming out into the open!! It’s a fun place to be.
Good luck with your Field practice.
I always hated those rip off licenses and fees. I recall when W.I.S.E. (dumb) were constantly pestering me and then trying to bully me into paying them a license fee for “using” the tech in my business. I told him I had paid for my courses and was never told that I would have to pay a yearly fee to “use the conditions” or other things. Bullshit!!
Anyways, have fun and flourish!!
Hi M, you right!! what’s is your name? you saying to keep all the lines wide open, great idea, but I don’t know who you are.
He’s doing just fine Dean. ( TR L )
The Guardian’s Office did.
Great point M. This could be an OSA bot attempt to get people to purge their own lists of K.A drinkers. Good eye!!
My grandma told me if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it usually is a duck. There is no substitution for a duck in Webster’s Thesaurus, so how many ways can you say quack I mean disconnection.
I have an question, and please don’t take this as anything something I find but truly confusing and can’t find much info on. I see people here state LRH cancelled “disconnection” in 1968 – it came in light of some unflattering PR and govt attention. I’ve read LRH exact words and he doesnt say he is canceling disconnection because it is in itself bad, but because of bad PR it causes.
Then there are numerous stories of disconnection happening in the years of 1968 thru 1986. It did not stop and then suddenly reappear in 1982 when Miscavige began his power grab.
I’ve heard some indies say that the wording LRH used may have meant one particular policy letter on the subject was canceled, but not the actual practice.
I am just searching for clarification on the matter. I don’t understand the numerous stories of disconnection from the 1970’s if the policy was truly canceled. I do understand Miscavige put it back into play with extreme vengeance to utterly control people when he grabbed power in the early to mid 80’s.
Can anyone explain how disconnection remained in play, in some form, between 68 & 82 if LRH truly canceled it? One thing you can say about Scientologists then, they listened to LRH’s instructions – so I can’t imagine these were just off policies being done independently at Orgs. Am I wrong? Any data would be appreciated because I’m far from alone in being confused by the 1968 cancelation, and actions to the contrary for the next 15 years.
Hey Phil, how you doing? – It’s Chess! You got my old auditng room, remember? Back in them days when theta was still hanging around the Orgs.
Wondered what happened to you after you vanished OS. Gee it’s good to hear and see you survived the “ravages of Miscavigages.” Unbelievable the crap on lines now hey?
Keep up the good work mate.
No shit, interesting.
… lol. Funny.
Marty — Yes, this is an interesting topic all by itself. While the RCS frantically runs around attempting to enforce disconnection from the disaffecteds “because it is a religious belief and practice”, there is no problem when OSA wants to gather data on someone in keeping Scientologists “in good standing” in contact with SPs. Of course, my divorce is the classic example — probably deserves a post one of these days. But the real point is that in today’s RCS, religious belief and practice are fungible — just depends whether they are convenient or not. It’s hypocrisy.
IF as they claim, disconnection is part of the firmly held religious conviction of Scientologists, it should not be able to be changed based on inconvenience, nor should it be denied based on “bad PR.” Otherwise, its hard to take the beliefs seriously….
Just remembered the Michael Fairman suit against his doctor for disconnecting. Anyone have an update on that? Would be great to see that case in the public record, along with Debbie Cook’s.
Come on Mike, it can’t be that bad…………….. lol.
I see your popint. My point is I didn’t want the KAers on my lines anymore and I got sick of Jo Jo and Barbara Rubio etc telling me back then, I need to take so and so off. So I deleted them. Now I don’t give a Rats ass, since my announcement. Even my own sister is a FB Nazi enforcer.
Funny, I was field auditor in Taiwan 12 years ago. Still wonder what happened to Lisa Lay. She was Tai Pei mission holder and after she paid for and expanded the mission and send over hundred people to Flag, Davey ripped off the mission and replaced her by a known criminal.
But Tony, you didn’t have Scientology empoyees that WISE could force to quit. That was why we paid the extortion money all those years. LOL on us!
The keyword being “enforced.” It’s a GPM for them, Is it just me or does it seem like the number of high quality individuals publicly leaving the church is going exponential? Especially highly trained and processed folks who have been around for more than a few years. It’s like watching an E.R. trauma with holes appearing in the patient’s arteries and they can’t stop the bleeding that just seems to be getting worse. The Facebook police are trying to put tourniquets the leaks but for every one they put on another one or two new holes appear.
Quentin, that “not wanting to get involved” is what winds people up in world wars, police states, suppression of all sorts. Then they’re in a mess they can’t get out of because it’s too late to handle it. Sort of like “as ye sow, so shall ye reap.”
Sorry to hear that Mike. LRH says your as alive as you can communicate. I consider it a pretty serious overt to try to get folks to communicate less and cut their reach. Glad i am not a party to it.
Boy, TR L is definitely after my time. Got the original HAS in 1973. Look what I missed out on by not retraining to GAT standards! I think I will laugh all day with this one!
I have a feeling that telling your friends that you’re a “child molester and serial rapist” won’t get you disconnected by RCS these days. However, if you were to tell them that the IAS and Idle Morgues are off policy and you shouldn’t give them anymore money, you’ll be dropped like a hot potato.
SunnyV, the exact complete text of HCOPL 15 Nov 68 is: “Since we can now handle all types of cases disconnection as a condition is cancelled.”
Shortly before that, LRH had given the Class VIII Course which dealt with the application of Standard Tech and achieving results with all cases. I take the first part of the sentence above relating to that.
Since the goal of auditing is to raise self-determinism, there is much wrong with telling someone to disconnect or requiring it. It violates self-determinism and so weakens the person. Additionally, whatever he/she “disconnects” from, still continues to be part of his/her eight dynamics. The effect from such a “disconnection” is to create an area that is now out of your sphere of control/ARC so it can give you trouble. An engram could be considered to be a moment you “disconnected” from – so it can give you trouble. (More fully explained in the two lectures of 23 March 1953.)
Tech, properly applied, raises self-determinism/ARC and a person can expand and reach out more and more into the dynamics, fear of overwhelm lessens, and so ideas of “disconnection” lose importance more and more and the formula for Power can take place.
That’ how I understand that. If it is self-determined no one has to tell you, because you feel it is the right thing to do.
Hey, also Mike, I continue to remind people on forums that we are all different, we have our own ways of handling our own situations, and to criticize anyone for doing it the best way they know how, is to set up a new “order” of “how we must act to prove we are part of the good guys group.” I for one am done with that sort of thing–been through it in a couple of religions already just this lifetime, and I hope I have now wised up.
What also hit me was this: “But you have a declared SP currently on your facebook account. Her name is Debbie Jean Cook.”
To Veronique, Debbie Cook is just an SP. One on a very long list, might as well be an annonymous name.
Veronique!! Have some f–ing repect. This was the Captain of Flag. She has worked harder and taken more responsibility to forward the aims of Scientology than you can even conceive of. And may I add – still is! May I suggest, that you contact her. She may need some house cleaning or may have errands you can assist with.
Annhowe, your “folded like so much wet paper under the MAAs watchful eye” reminded me of several experiences where it’s not just the MAA watching, but the fact that she/he represents the whole church, the future of you and your family and the planet, etc. That’s a lot to stand up against. I folded too.
Phil-Welcome! It is so true that I Help is an out-exchange criminal agency.. While they were working against me as a field auditor they of course wanted 10% from me too. I know of an instance of them tracking a field auditor down in a hospital for that 10%.
Nanook, if they only gave you a PTS Type A branding, it means they still had some hope of getting more money from you, or you are connected to someone they have hope of getting more money from who will refuse to disconnect from you. Believe me, they have an eye on they money or else they would have kicked you to the curb like a dead dog.
I think there is some dog poop in her back yard that needs collecting. Her German Shepherd had pups recently…
All those who have been attacked by facebook, disconnection Police raise your hand. Mine is raised. Other friends of mine who are also under the radar have also been subject to this. I wonder, as these “upstat” Scientologists are informing people that a wonderful, theta individual should be disconnected from… Do they get a funny feeling in their stomach? Does the past get restimulated? Inquisitions, Nazi Germany, Soviet Union…
Welcome, Phil! Looking forward to reading your story and hearing about the goings on in your part of the world.
I was declared a few weeks ago via an email from an Ethics terminal.
About an hour later, I got an email from a Scn FB contact I hadn’t heard from in awhile. She asked about my Declare, if it was true, etc. She had ALSO just received an email informing her of “my” declare.
She and I exchanged a couple of emails, resulting in her calling up the EO to get the scoop. He read the details to her over the phone. There was one last FB email from her. She told me she loved me but would be disconnecting from me. She wished me luck and “unfriended” me.
I dropped 9 Scn FB “friends” the same day that I received my email informing me I’d been declared. And a few more later on. The fact that these disconnections could actually happen so damned fast, without lag, or thought or the “now I’m supposed to” kind of reaction is rather scary. Wow. That’s enough to make the SP giving the arbitrary orders quite proud, I’m sure.
I shot out one more FB email to ALL contacts who may have also gotten the email about my declare (including the friend above plus all others who so quickly “unfriended” me that day).
In my email, I went over the real purpose of my so called “declare” which of course was: an attempt to keep each of them in the dark by suggesting disconnection from me (I had been forwarding weekly blog updates re: Debbie and other things since New Years) while reminding them to “think for themselves”, use their PTS/SP tech, etc. I also gave them data regarding cancellation of disconnection and the Indie 500 list, which in turn resulted in a handful of email responses back from those who are now “looking” for themselves (including some that had disconnected)
To: The “undecided”:
When a being comes along who cares enough about the welfare of others (specifically you as a Scientologist) and Keeping Scientology Working actually makes a stand & speaks out, in an honest attempt to correct gross Out-tech, misapplications and cross purposes (as Debbie has done) who then finds themselves labeled, targeted & ATTACKED without remorse by the Church vs. simply applying Scientology and accepting her comm as a “Things that Shouldn’t Be” type report, acknowledging her as the actual on-purpose being that she truly is and once again applying Standard Scientology to better the entire scene, you have obviously entered The Twilight Zone. far far and away from LRH’s Scientology.
Hey, David Miscavige. Here’s an idea for you. We all know you are sitting in fear, spiritually speaking, and that you are frantic about all the people who are leaving your church. Well, you can prove all of us wrong in one quick step. Just cancel disconnection for real (not just PR) and show us you are not afraid of what would happen if you did that. Prove to us that those who still support you do it out of their own self-determinism — that even once you’ve cancelled disconnection (for real) and allow all scientologists to re-connected to their friends and family who have left your church, that they still stay on board with you. I DARE YOU. No, I DOUBLE DARE YOU. I bet you can’t do that. (Actually, we out here all KNOW you can’t do that and you’ll just keep on making us right.)
Nice to meet you Phil. 😀
Tony, I love it!
Richard and I are looking forward to meeting up with you and Marie-Joe again.
Indeed good point, polish her toes while you have nothing better to do.
Yes, it is true PTSness, fitting the real definition of PTS to the Middle Class. Many people think it means having an affinity for havingness and social groups outside of the church, but not so. It’s an unwillingness to change or rock the status-quo. I have seen way too many people in the church do and become exactly what they were against, such as the case above.
I agree. I think we owe a debt of gratitude to the Facebook Patrol who go around informing others that, yet again, another “friend” has left the church. Since most of our SP declares remain hidden from the majority of those still in and seem to be shown only on a “need-to-know” basis, at least we’ve got the Facebook Patrol getting this information out. Cute!
I would post two big thumbs up if I knew how to.
Another OT8 comes to the fold !!!! How fucking cool is that !!!!
I think this deserves a “comment of the day” award. Hilarious.
For people who want to stay connected and keep some underground activities, while staying friend with whom you like, you can make your Friend List confidential. Here is the link on how to do it.
Attention: all people on your friend list will still see the friend you have in common.
So if you are friend with Debbie Cook and Joe Blow, If Joe Blow is friend with Debbie, she will appear as Mutual Friend.
Just unfriend all the a_hole from your list keep only Debbie and the one you like on you confidential friend list and you can still work undercover.
A friend of mine OT8 sent his letter recently, and told me what release he experienced just disconnecting from this SP group.
I think it is still worth for me to spread some truth and turn around the people I can still talk too, but I am looking for breaking free and experiencing the same wins.
What the hell are the SO’s thinking? They have gone totally insane declaring and alienating powerful terminals away from the Church. Soon there will be no one left and DM will still be preaching about “unprecedented expansion”… of high crimes, suppression, and craziness lol. The sad part is that there is probably a false perception in the SO that it is the money that is going to save them in the long run. Nothing could be further from the truth. These days companies and individuals collapse in no time and no amount of money is going to help. The group is totally PTS Type 2 potentially heading for total insanity as I suspect many of the SO’s especially in the new generation have no or very little reality on what it is like to survive out in the world where no room and board or directions on what to do are provided by the “caretakers” of the group. This is a very dangerous situation. If the things continue to go in this way, the general backslash against Scientology could be enormous. It is very unfortunate.
Good job Phil for sticking to your integrity. This is what true Scientology is all about.
Mighty Miami~Would love to hear of any folks out of Miami Org in the Indie world?
And there are those who have pubilc pages/profiles to be in your face. I’m sorry, That should be Flourish and Prosper as the most effective weapon against this insanity. I credit Sam with starting that.
I believe I have mine set to public as well.
Ok, so the from the HCOPL 15 Nov 1968 the exact wording is “disconnection as a condition” which seems a specific differentiation from “disconnection as a policy”? Can a scientologist here explain the distinction?
If I’m following you correctly, your take on it is that disconnection should not be applied by “higher ups” or the CoS telling someone to disconnect, because it weakens self-determinism, but if someone decides on their own to “disconnect” then that is their choice and is part of self-determinism. (I don’t think anyone would disagree that if someone on their own volition truly wants to “disconnect” from someone in their life, like an abusive spouse, then they have every right to do so.) Unfortunately, it seems CoS has twisted this option and made every case of disconnection they’ve pushed a case of “it was their own decision they freely made” when questioned about it – when we all know that’s not the case.
I’m still not clear on its practice in the 1970’s. I’m sure their were cases of personal choice, but that’s far from the only circumstance and plenty of sad stories of families torn apart by disconnection in the 1970’s/
Right from OSA INT.
Tracing it back, the WHOIS is OSA INT at 6331 Hollywood Blvd. (see below) The website owner of ChurchofScientology.net is Church of Scientology International (CSI)
WHOIS information for churchofscientology.net:
[Redirected to whois.domainsite.com]
Domain Name: churchofscientology.net
Registrar: Spot Domain LLC
Expiration Date: 2012-08-17 04:00:00
Creation Date: 1998-08-18 00:00:00
REGISTRANT CONTACT INFO
Church of Scientology International
CSI Domains Director
6331 Hollywood Blvd
Email Address: email@example.com
ADMINISTRATIVE CONTACT INFO
Church of Scientology International
CSI Domains Director
6331 Hollywood Blvd
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
TECHNICAL CONTACT INFO
Church of Scientology International
CSI Domains Director
6331 Hollywood Blvd
Email Address: email@example.com
BILLING CONTACT INFO
Church of Scientology International
CSI Domains Director
6331 Hollywood Blvd
Email Address: firstname.lastname@example.org
The Data in the Spot Domain LLC WHOIS database is provided by Spot Domain LLC for information purposes, and to assist persons in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration record. Spot Domain LLC does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree that you will use this Data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail (spam); or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that apply to Spot Domain LLC (or its systems). Spot Domain LLC reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting this query, you agree to abide by this policy.
Cached on: 2012-04-02T13:56:22-06:00
Not meant as any reflection on you or others. My friend knew me well and had huts pah, or so I thought. Certainly the pressure of all of that is significant to bring to bear on someone. Which is what make sites like this blog and others so important. It lets them know that there is real Scientology outside of the suppressive influences of the church.
And I have to admit to some disappointment that he folded so quickly.
Speedy De La Carriere (hee hee)
Us too!! 🙂
Oh I see !! This is Mike Reppin. LOL. 🙂 Not an OSA bot!!
Hat tip to Tommy Stahl via Robin Rhyne:
“Attitude and Conduct of Scientology” (4th London ACC, 3rd November 1955) straight from LRH:
“…the arduous lesson along this line is that no-communication lists, revocation/suspension of certificates, court action of any kind whatsoever within the realm of Scientology and so forth, is not only not only difficult to do but does not work. That’s just the end of it. It just doesn’t work.It’s for the sea gulls. That might work in Gestetner Limited or Westinghouse, but it does not work in Scientology. Got that?”
“It’s because they are people of good intention. And by saying that these people are not fit to associate with us anymore, we have told a lie of magnitude. This is not true. It’s never true. You got it?”
“Our inability to understand the actions of other Scientologists has a very fascinating barrier. The limitation on our understanding is simply this: we say they have bad intentions, and that is a lie. Got it?”
“So the whole situation is liable to enturbulate around that postulated bad intention. That’s what enturbulates the situation. That makes a lie. “The situation then becomes unsolvable. Because we’ve entered a changing factor called a lie into it.”
“The most valuable asset we have, actually, is our ability to understand, to do the right thing, to be kind, to be decent.”
“Well, I hate to unsettle a very stable datum, if it does unsettle it. But the only way anything ever does resolve is by letting your own kind heart reach through. That’s the only way it ever does solve. “And it never solves by being tough.”
“What do we really have of value in the organizations of Scientology? The only thing we have of value, actually, is Scientology, an understanding of life, increasing ability to communicate, a good concept and grip on reality and the ability to like guys. That’s all you got.”
That is not the correct way to tell people about your feelings! Route yourself to ethics…. 🙂
Worsel, excellent reply to SunnyV. I really appreciate your explanation!
And thank you for the references, too.
From my viewpoint, I’d like to add that DISCONNECTION = PTS (when it comes as an order or “suggestion” from cult staff). This, of course, for the cult means more control over parishioners, more auditing to “fix” them, more review auditing to attend to the coursework that wasn’t going well, or because the auditing did not produce results. More sales. More $$$$.
Veronique!! Have some f–ing repect. This was the Captain of Flag. She has worked harder and taken more responsibility to forward the aims of Scientology than you can even conceive of.
F*ckin’ A right she has. Where does this Veronique get off with such a disgusting invalidation anyway? I can hardly believe the nerve (or the sheer, unadulterated ignorance) of that email.
BDA your name is hilarious! This blog is awesome!
As evidenced by the response from the cult that Debbie Cook’s email won her, KSW is a high crime!
But under David Miscavige’s velvety soft guiding hands the reformed and renamed Office of Special Affairs has done away with all such training routines and lives by a strict code of honesty, integrity and compassion.
No-one in the OSA will do anything to anyone they would not want to be done to them. TR-L has been abolished. Or not as the case may be. 😉
Allergy warning: this comment may contain traces of TR-L. This comment was not endorsed by Michael A Hobson.
Oh my god! This is a totally valid point. When I discovered Scientology I was looking for something that would bring me up above the mundane of jobs, malls, and mindless entertainment. A few years later I found myself going into wild disagreements and trying to “escape” back into the wog world to regain the level of freedom that I once enjoyed. I used to hate malls. The other day I found myself walking in an outside mall area and it was like: “I love the mall!” I couldn’t believe it. I loved to look at all the people freely roaming around, and I could walk around and have whatever I wanted (if I could afford it :). It’s unbelievable how alienated I became from “normal” reality after having my reality butchered by all the insanity at the church. It’s been taking me over a year now trying to recover. I find this blog to be very helpful in that direction.
“The limitation on our understanding is simply this: we say they have bad intentions, and that is a lie. Got it?”
“What do we really have of value in the organizations of Scientology? The only thing we have of value, actually, is Scientology, an understanding of life, increasing ability to communicate, a good concept and grip on reality and the ability to like guys. That’s all you got.” – LRH
I so got it.
LRH has spoken.
Isn’t everything the church of scientology claims based convenience. It claims a practise is secular when for it to be religious would be awkward and them claims it to be relgious when being religious is handy.
As far as disconnetion goes it’s been claimed it doesn’t exist (never heard of it, total rubbish manufactured by religious bigots), it doesn’t exist but people have a human right to not associate with people they don’t want to (I guess that’s what they must be doing but the church of scientology doesn’t have a practise of disconnetion), subtly different from well it does exist, it’s a religious practise, but the church of scientology doesn’t make or try to make followers practise this religiously protected practise it’s purely voluntary.
You couldn’t change your tune faster if you spun the dial on a radio.
LMAO. If this hasn’t been sent I’d be happy to do it. If it has awesome.
That’s got me thinking about how the church of scientology has twisted this. LRH said originally you must handle or disconnect or you’re a PTS (essentially meaning you MUST handle or disconnect).
Then LRH said okay we can handle everything so disconnection is no longer necessary to stop being PTS.
David Miscavige now says if you’re associated with a SP you are PTS and you must disconnect, it cannot be handled.
So David Miscavige has regressed church of scientology practise to a point before LRH since now handling is no longer an option. How to take something and FUBAR it.
Maybe the response to someone saying they can’t talk to you because you’re an SP is to say “why not just handle it, I won’t try to make you leave there ya go we can still be friends, it’s handled.
Of course the downside is that may make them stay in the church of scientology so supporting David Miscavige.
Also occured to me the “acceptable truth” is per older policy is handle or disconnect. We don’t make them disconnect they only do it if they feel they can’t handle it. Pretty sure that’s what Tommy Davis and the rest of them tell themselves.
Still a lie when you have the likes of the Facebook police.
Phil, thanks for sharing your story and welcome to Freedom. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Perhaps it is that those who are unable to constructively create, destructively criticize? Seems to spot them right on that CDEI expanded scale.
David Miscavige has not being idly sitting on his hands, in view of the current down turn in cult business he’s decided to go in to acquisitions and mergers.
As some of you with know the Nation of Islam, another group with a dangerous cult reputation has recently started telling its members to start buying services from the church of scientology. At the same time David Miscavige has given explicit instructions that they should not be crush regged; got to nurture the newbies.
It would seem a classic merger and I expect the leader(s) of the NoI are getting some kick back on what their members buy from the church of scientology.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see other similar things happen. Perhaps talks with the Moonies, aka the Unification Church, are already in progress.
In some ways this is not like “inter faith” events that churches are holding in Europe where church attendance is less than 30% of the population in many countries, although this differs sharply from the percentages of people who clam to be spiritual. Having had at each other for centuries these religions feel the need to unite to survive.
This comment was not endorsed by Micheal A Hobson.
HELLO PHIL!… WELCOME 🙂
BTW this comment is not a joke. David Miscavige really does seem to be in to mergers and Michael A Hobson really didn’t endorse the comment, or this one. Probably too angry to agree but that’s his problem not mine.
Hey, don’t ya wanna be cool? SPs are not cool! Unfriend them! Don’t talk to them or eat lunch with them in the cafeteria. Don’t even look at them when you pass them in the hall! They are beneath notice. Be mean to them!
These lyrics by Garcia and Hunter seem to describe the CoS’ descent into madness:
Dark star crashes
pouring its light
the forces tear loose
from the axis
for faults in the
clouds of delusion
Shall we go,
you and I
While we can?
the transitive nightfall
If Joe Blow is still mutual friends maybe he’s okay? TBH the KAs will disconnect, sorry unfriend, and while the rejection may sting I believe pre-emptive unfriending to be counter productive. Let em work it out for themselves, leave them the choice.
If they unfriend you I feel there is marginally more chance of them later friending you and in doing so becoming independent.
That said if people really won’t take the hint that you’re not about to listen to their dictates re you FB friends then may be unfriending them is the only answer. Handle or disconnect?
Type not like should read “not unlike”
Typo “not like” should read “not unlike”
Tara, I’m sorry to disappoint. I’m not a Scientologist, just someone that got interested in the CofM after reading Times article and became constant follower when Anonymous came on the scene. Funny how I drifted to following the Indies now. Anyways, I picked the name cuz of my hometown. Didn’t realize confusion it might cause until after using name.Again, sorry. Okay on my way to Red Hot Chili Peppers with wife and kids. Bye
Hey Ronnie, I’m stealing time from other pressing
projects, to catch up with the latest on Marty’s
blog, as often as possible, and, I just gotta say,
man, I really dig all your posts! Really! You get
the most impact with some pretty darn astute
observations, dude! V V W D !!!!
I replied to your earlier post regarding the above
disconnecter, assuring you then, that not to worry,
he’ll come round (comm lag) It takes as long as it
I’m not advocating the TR L here, but when it comes down to it, we’re all liars. Time is the manifestation of our very own untruths.
Lying…what a loaded issue. No lie 🙂
Awesome, Phil! And Welcome!
So I’m done with A-E some years ago, have it in writing from Mike Ellis, on his letterhead EXCEPT, I have to come to LA and get a metered interview (Step F).
I do it. Then Step G, another interview to go over the first one. Then Step H, wait a year for the next letter whichs says….since I have viewed sites on the internet that are deemed “entheta” my AMENDS (step I) is to go to those exact same sites, this time to harass them and try to shut them down.
It’s perfectly voluntary, if you don’t volunteer to do it, then you are declared. The re-write and re-introduction of disconnection, the HCOB from 83, was NOT written by LRH.
It’s the witch test;when the sink you under water if you drown you’re not a witch, if you don’t you are. Radical Corporate Scn – ucky.
OMG Phil!!! Wow – you are out!!! It is so cool to find you here…Not sure if you remember me but we had some com.cycles in Flag about field auditing while I was on my – hahaha “refreshers” …Welcome to sunshine – “dark side” 🙂
Tommy Davis enforcing Disconnection for the Cof$:
Well, there you go Jim. Mr. IJC making it go right with Green on White! 🙂
Insane isn’t Flyfish!? I know these FB Nazi’s work as volunteers for OSAI.
Your mention of the networking so fast is true. My own sister Christine Juss, is one of those. She got a FB message out to a friend of mine halfway across the world recently warning of someone she doesn’t even know, that a friend of his was declared. There is no way she would even known this, unless OSA sent her on Mission Orders .
Consider this an ethics gradient, sister. You have been outed.
You right. I didn,t want to advocate the pre emptive unfriend.
I know I had some OSA guy on my friend list who were only “friend” to spy on me.
I also had friend who I keep but I see we don’t have Debbie as comon friend anymore i.e. they unfriend her.
Sad to see this game being played between scientologists, and to see the amount of communication needed for people to wake up.
Confront of evil.
Thank you Bob 🙂
Thank you annhowe, let me see what I can muster up. 🙂
Thank you FTT.
No I don’t work with Helen but I heard she flourishing & prospering. I bet that pisses off the OTL here. They won’t say anything of course because they are such cowards.
I don’t mind paying a fee if they do something for it. All I got for 10 years is you can’t do this, you can’t do that, sheesh! When I first started here it was only the license holder that paid the fee. Then I HELP got greedy and wanted all staff in the group to pay it yearly. Then they increased it. And then, get this, they started to get students to join. It’s just like they don’t want you to succeed.
Yeah it was the first thing I thought of when I heard of the declare. I wanted to get my name on the Indie list. I feel it’s an honor to be a part of it and it’s more than just a list. It’s a symbol of true freedom.. People who were willing to make a stand against oppression.
If you are not on the list get on it now it’s exhilarating! 🙂
Happy to have you, Phil. You’ve come to the right place!
M. Where does Marty “suggest everyone cuts off their scn friends still in the church.”?
Well remembered there, OT22. They got onto that like greased lightning. Beats the hell out of clearing people!
Yeah, I saw that when I was around. You kind of just look at it and make up all these thoughts along the line of political correctness, but the wondering still hung around. Isn’t Islam essentially fundamentally different from Scientology? I can understand Dianetics, but once it starts to get into whole track and so on, won’t there be a conflict of faith? I mean even something like data evaluation could become a touchy subject on the faith driven mind. For some reason to me it seemed like it could be another disaster in the making especially in light of all the current events. I always want to hope for the better, but so far “the better” hasn’t realized as far at the Church itself is concerned.
Beautiful. It says it all. The bottom line. Many great philosophers and religious leaders – one, same message!
Exactly. Implant Definition #1 tech dict. A painful and forceful means of overwhelming a being with artificial purpose or false concepts in a malicious attempt to control and suppress him.
Do what we say or lose your eternity.
Lol yeah right!
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Nowhere that I am aware of.
Mike, it is these revelations like this that have been giving me case gain by just following this blog.
Mighty Miami~Thanks for the answer. RHCPs – LOVE them ~ Voodoo Fest New Orleans – best ever. 😀 Hope you had an awesome time!
The issue is a Policy Letter. Therefore I would see much need for differentiation.
Practice depends to large degree on the understanding of those involved. So correct and incorrect applications may be found.
Thx Marty. I got your back. “M” please email me at email@example.com. My intention in my original blog, was only because after literally years while under the radar I was being hounded on fucking facebook by OSA bots and I in 2011 just got sick of it and deleted, and deleted. I understand your take on my position, but I was taking a causitive viewpoint. And boy, it was a key out. Pleeze take note Tony and Lynne.
OMG! Yes of course I remember. I was thinking about you a few days ago and wondered what you were up to and how I could contact you. Then I got declared and well… Hmmmmmm! ~lol
How are you and the Mrs?
Yes I am a great survivor and love to fight for a good cause. It’s time David Miscavige let the adults run the show.
I hope to catch up with you sometime. Here is my email firstname.lastname@example.org
So cool to hear from you my friend 🙂
Hello EJ. Wow that’s amazing. I was an auditor in Sydney org at that time. Lisa Lai got declared. She married an American who was Clear I think. There was something about selling her own stuff on mission lines but I think that was just BS. She was very good at getting people into her mission. I heard she is living in Taichung now so if I catch up with her I will find the truth. One of my projects is to interview all the Taiwanese who have blown off the lines for one reason or another and compile a dossier 🙂
Thank you! 🙂
Yeah right? Who the hell does that? Can you imagine someone running their business like that. Making their staff wrong for producing ~lol
Ghouls have more ARC than them!
Yes I will keep you updated. It’s so great, I actually feel part of an awesome group now and I haven’t felt that way in Scientology for the last 10 years 🙂
Thank you Tara! Me too 🙂
Thanks LTC! 🙂
Yeah totally crazy. I am convinced David Miscavige is Type 3 and won’t stop until the whole world is declared SP. I know what is going to happen long before that… Attila the Hun, Alexander, Hitler etc
Thanks Lisabeth! 🙂
Thank you Thetalibre! 🙂
Thank you Luis! 🙂
Your story was an inspiration
Let’s call it what it is. A criminal who doesn’t want his crimes exposed. Therefore he tries to cut the communication line. That makes him feel somewhat “safe”, he believes.
It is also a notion of suppressive persons that everyone who has some potential or power is an “enemy” or “dangerous” to him.
To be connected to an SP does not equal to be PTS. If that would be so just reading the newspaper would signal that everyone is PTS just by the fact of being on this planet.
Also, to “signal” to someone that he/she should disconnect has a very high potential of backfiring. It can act as a wrong PTS-item and stir up charge.
Therefore the criminal SP is in a bad spot. He must not handle. The “handle” would require him to leave his criminal viewpoint and cease and correct his criminal actions. First he would need to be able to find the correct target (himself) and then undertake steps of self-correction in order to do the “handle”-step.
So he feels he can push “disconnect”, only. And this leads to a greater and greater opposition.
In short, it sucks to be David Miscavige, as one of the other bloggers wrote earlier.
Hey I have a technical question. How can you ever reach a state of “Cause Over Life” at a church were you are told what you should be effected by (i.e. “connection to SP’s”, “enturbulation by Black PR”… etc.)? And you have to agree and do what you are told right? And if you don’t agree (which is an inalienable aspect of self-determinism and being cause) then you are out of the church. That’s what I intuitively began realizing a while ago. Now, I’m starting to see it from more of a technical point of view. It now seems that it is not only challenging, but even impossible to go up the Bridge at CofS under current conditions since “going up the Bridge” is not like taking a long road trip or something of the sort. It is not just going through the motions. It is ascending to higher levels of ability, self-determinism, and spiritual understanding. Am I wrong? How can you reach that state when you are expected to be fully other-determined on your way there? This is some kind of a trap in its own way – to go into agreement to be nearly totally enslaved on your way to “Total Freedom.” How does that work? Am I not correct on this one?
Hey Ziba! ~lol
Yes I thought that might shock you. Of course I remember, how could I possibly forget you?
Hah! Refreshers what a joke. I remember arguing with my C/S once because I had no technical flunks and he still gave me tons of metering drills to do. Talk about an inval and a stat push.
I love the “dark side” 😉 It’s funny those morons call it that when all THEY are trying to do is keep their parishioners(ATMs) in the dark. These days to be a Corporate Scientologist requires a low IQ and a submissive personality. “Madame Miscavige’s House of Pain” ~lol
Thank Poet! The right place is so much better than the left one 🙂
I think the name Nation of Islam is misleading, they may well refer to the Koran on occassion but I believe a lot of what the followers are told comes out of the leader’s head. They have their own “space opera” for instance.
Never under estimate the ability of people to over look discontinuities, inconstencies and conflicting concepts or to be able to hold conflicting view points when it comes to matters of faith. 🙂
That said I doubt (m)any will get to the point where they find out it’s all implanted; there’s plenty of ways to keep the money coming without getting that far. They’ll probably all end up audit junkies with monthly auditing quotas to keep them in “good standing”.
Brilliant LRH citation. Totally perfect for this conversation.
Thanks so much for finding and posting that!
I literally pray (postulate) that this rift between Scientologists – men and women of good will – can be healed one day, but there is only one way I see that can happen.
Did Lisa write her own dissemination materials? There may be a parallel to Ruth Minshull, who wrote some books and booklets that were actually sold in missions and even orgs I believe, for 2-3 years. Of course that was stopped PDQ and Ruth has been long gone from official Scientology. Ruth was an original OT level completion as I recall.
David Miscavige’s operating basis:
“Do unto others as you believe they are planning to do unto you, only do it first.”
Sunny, I think your perception of confusion around this issue may be quite accurate.
My impression of the scene in the 1970s is that many policies were in formative stages and there was no uniform application. There was a lot of discussion and differences of opinion as to applications. I believe the Sea Org was intended to bring order to the scene, and a standardness of application.
Obviously this has been a massive failure from a scientological point of view, in that what has actually happened is contrary to the actual goals of scientology, in terms of helping all to “move on up a little higher”. I believe the failure may have resulted from the overall failure to train/process Sea Org members to at least Clear/OTIII and some effective training level, perhaps at least Class IV or Class VI. Given this lag in training/processing I think it was inevitable the Sea Org would degrade to what it has become now and fail overall.
LRH had really just started to research the Tech of creating and managing successful, social (rather than antisocial) groups, and in 1971, say, Policy was still in it’s formative stages with disorder still blowing off. Thus conflicting views and opinions did and still do exist.
Yea, ” A Rose, by any other name, is still a rose” (G.Stien, Tender Buttons).
Tony, ditto! WISE ( a true oxymoron), has all the admin stuff edited for business and then makes Scientologist buy the materials for use. If I had a business and I wanted someone to use conditions I would just show them how to use them. You don’t need to bring in policy letters (technically religious) nor do you need “made for the public” knock-offs. The irony here is that WISE, by its very name, is a Scientology entity, yet they push thier materials in the business world …Huh? Anyway, I have always felt the same way with the other groups; If I pay for my books and courses, then I have the knowledge, and I can share with whomever I freakin’ want- I don’t need to pay twice!
There was a time when WISE was attempting to force people to stay at the base, rather than with a friend or in a rented place, when coming to do services. One realtor I spoke to wanted to show me a place to rent, but was too intimidated by the “policy”. I told her they had no legal authority, so she wrote it up. I don’t know if they are still trying to throw their weight around, but that group is simply self-serving and transparent, and they violate church/state in the workplace.
Yes, her books were sold for years and then they were pulled off the shelves. I believe it was LRH who finally pulled them, but we sold them in Div6, because How to Choose Your People was a lot more user friendly book than SOS, and from my memory, she quoted and fully ack’d LRH. I don’t remember why he eentually pulled it, but he was actively running the church when we were selling it.
Exactly Jewel! It was a great book and kept it for years.
look who’s showing up from the distant past!
haven’t seen you since anzo 2002.
you seem to be holding up well enough, glad to see you still around and kikin
ps: don’t say you do not remember me(I’ll jog your mem, I was Ziba’s 2D then, the italian)
“deemed entheta,” hey I bet that’s right! No doubt enturbulates the beejeebies out of those whose W/Hs have been missed by these sites.
isn’t that amazing?
Sounds like a formula persons and groups apply when they really want to create enemies against them and want to go down.
As far as DM himself goes, I believe the reference “On Human Behavior” in the PTS/SP pack describes the situation nearly one for one. I am surprised why I have not heard of that reference much from anybody else as it also seems to apply to the sort of insanity and aberration of the nation as a whole. The description of an “aberrative personality” in this reference is so thorough and so illuminative I could hardly believe it when I was reading it. Look at this:
1) Everything bad that happened to the preclear was (a) ridiculous, (b) unimportant, (c) deserved.
2) Everything the preclear and others did to the aberrative person was (a) very important, (b) very bad, (c) irremediable.
3) Those things which the precelar could do (a) were without real value, (b) were done better by the aberrative personality or by others.
There is more… but I believe especially the first two points are dramatized by the entirety of the Sea Org as a group. This reference also explains why this could be the case: “It will often be discovered by the auditor that the preclear has ‘swapped terminals’ with these aberrative persons. The weight of aberration is such that the preclear has been swung into the valence of such people, for they have obviously won.”
There are many, many points that indicate heavily in this reference. Some don’t, but most do almost sentence after sentence. It is a true eye opener.
You might want to check this:
Mike Rinder at the top of his game, imho.
Brilliant! Thanks for the link Bruce. Mike truly spoke my mind on this subject. I have a lot of reality on this reference, but I am surprised some people have commented that they have never met one. One only needs to look at the country as a whole. There are plenty of these sort of leaches roaming around corporations and political scenes sucking the blood out of hard working individuals. This is very representative of the “global elite” if you will, and it is also worth noting (as described in the reference) that quite a few of them are or become quite ugly especially as their grow older. Sometimes you look at these “revered thinkers” and advisers on the global market scene and you wonder: “and these monsters are deciding on the fate of human kind…” It is no wonder that the entirety of humanity is now being pushed into poverty, into being MEST, into treated like criminals before the fact, and just as LRH writes toward the end of the reference, revolution is brewing and these days it is almost in every area wherever you look. I don’t mean to generalize, but one only needs to look at the news and independent media. In a way what has been happening at the Church of Scientology is in line with the trends occurring around the world with various governments and corporations. People have been pushed far enough and they are on the uprising to confront tyranny and overthrow the leaches of society.
No nothing like that. I think it was a diet food or nutritional product or something like that. I will actually find the full reason and post here when I do. Maybe I can get a copy of her Golden Rod ~he he
Speaking of Golden Rods. David Miscavige your Golden Rod is coming and it is about 4 inches in diameter with rough edges. C’mon bend over and take it like a man ~lol
Thank you Margaret! 🙂
Thanks for that, I will check it out 🙂
Ciao Maurizio! 🙂
Yeah it has been a while. How could I forget, especially you being Italian 😉
What are doing these days, still in Anzo?