Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Concerned Citizen is a regular contributor to this blog.  CC suggested that today we post something concerning the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Since Mike and I have spent the past 24 hours evading a network of PI’s attempting to usurp our human rights in a number of ways, CC’s request piqued my interest. I then did a rapid review of the 30 articles of the Declaration of Human Rights and  counted no less than 25 articles that Miscavige’s organization is regularly violating.  His use of celebrities and childen to front for his serial, institutional violations  is  intolerable and should be put to period.  CC’s submitted post follows:

I would like to contribute a post, since there was no post today and it is the 61st Anniversary of the Universal Declaration Human Rights.

You see, today across the world people are gathering to talk about the pressing issue of human rights, globally. Many important issues are discussed and put forth for great minds to formulate plans that will improve the lots of those whose human rights are violated in so many places around the world.

But the subject of the Church of Scientology’s international management and their abysmal record on human rights is hardly mentioned in any media. Since the Church is fond of promoting its laudable activities on behalf of human rights, even going as far as to re print the declaration, and since I know most Scientologist are genuinely concerned with human rights. And since it thinks itself, somehow as the only exempt body on earth, with the power to set these rights aside. I thought it appropriate to mention it.

Someone has to mention it. It has been recorded with meticulous time place form and event in thousands of pages within the group of blogs and sites here listed. I know many people will consider these stories the delirious hallucinations of a very sick group whose overts and crimes have driven them to dream up all this horrible stories.

I know they will think this, because I would normally dismiss all these allegations that exact same way, even after I myself was subjected to a lot of the humiliation, slander, and other violations well documented in the various pages of this blogs and sites. Make no mistake, everyone has experienced the occasion when his words or actions, were misunderstood, twisted, or mis-represented. It could very well happen. But this many times, by these many people? What are the odds of so many people’s stories matching so well?

Suffice it to say that today I’m a different person, today I see these people differently, everyone raising their voices and those perpetrating these un-thinkables. I’m aware of those whose hate and crimes drive them to fabrications, I can spot those a mile away. But I can also recognize that the large majority of people speaking up and protesting herein, are not sick with hatred and delusion, instead I see these people as people I failed; I and those still in and supporting the corrupt management after witnessing the decline, the abuse and standing by explaining it away.

Even anonymous, god help me, I see differently. I don’t agree with them in many things, but I see them as a group of people trying to force this formidable machine into compliance with the human rights it professes to cherish. I also know the majority of Scientologist are not aware of the abuses, of the treasonous disdain they are regarded with by the management. And would not in their right mind, and with the full information from which to derive the inevitable and truthful conclusion that these are not empty accusations, condone them.

It is possible to look at something and not see it, it is possible to hear something and not listen, and that is what is essentially occurring inside the Church. To all of you loyal Scientologist I say, I understand your reaction, and your anger when reading my words. I understand that without knowing me you will decide I’m so ridden with guilt, that I make all this up to assuage my agony. But when at last these abuses reach you, when you too come to realize these stories are true, we will be here to help you get back on your feet. In the mean time, let us all consider the value of Human rights and make a conscious decision not to ever again stand by while watching any of these rights being violated or set aside by anyone for any reason.

Here is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.


Here are the Church’s Youth for Human Rights videos explaining these rights. They are great videos, if only the church would follow its own advice and respect these rights they understand so well, they can explain them masterfully. How ironic


Here are the Churches own videos explaining these rights.

123 responses to “Universal Declaration of Human Rights

  1. Mark,

    The “Universal Declaration of Human Rights” is not an enforceable document it’s what is called an empty paper document in that while it “advises” people be afford certain human rights; most of these are “common sense” and are enforced per-country.

    The Church of Scientology is really proud of whatever pretend involvement they say they had in it getting it written/enforced but I will categorically state that since it’s inception, not one single instance of someone being put in prison or sentenced to death has been cited this document as a writ of law.

  2. Thanks for this timely post. Thanks also for your continuing discussion of your part in the damage that was done and what you are now doing to make amends and build a new future for scientology in the field.

    When you return, will we be given a list of names and pictures of the PIs?

    Some of us may start needing this information as the church stats keep falling and DM seeks other wrong targets to blame. 🙂

  3. martyrathbun09

    Billy, Had it not been for Malcolm X going to the UN to seek Human Rights, King never would have secured any civil rights (See: The Judas Factor by Karl Evanzz – a well documented look at why X was assasinated 3 years before King). To ignore Human Rights violations is to consent to them.

  4. Billy, If a Goverment is really willing this will happen. Excerpt from my own countries Constitution. One thing is to sign a document. Another thing is to implement it. The Universal Declaration Of Human Rights trancedents. If Scientology reforms to implement this that would alsoo be a beautiful thing.

  5. Billy, the Declaration is at least something international agencies like the Red Cross can cite when assessing situations where human rights are violated.

    The Cof$ had nothing to do with getting it written 61 years ago, and only uses it today to generate warm and fuzzy sentiments.

    “The Youth For Human Rights group has been distributing DVDs and brochures that spread its message about rights and name Scientology founder L Ron Hubbard as a leader on the issue alongside Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King.”


  6. So well said, CC, thank you.

    This duplicity and hypocrisy on behalf of this “Church” are really revolting. It is a compulsion to “brand” everything good and pretend exclusivity over it while committing crimes within their home and zones of influence.

    I found some really great quotes to celebrate Human Rights and wanted to share them with you all:
    David Kaczynski
    We’ve got to take back the ideal of justice, we’ve got to take back this principle of human dignity. We’ve got to take it back from vengeance, from hatred, we’ve got to say: look, we’re all in this together. We are human beings.

    Pearl S. Buck:
    You cannot make yourself feel something you do not feel, but you can make yourself do right in spite of your feelings.

    Ralph Waldo Emerson:
    Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory.

    Senator Miriam Defensor Santiago (Philippines):
    I shall be honored to go to jail. Under a dictatorship, the detention cell is a place of honor.

    H.H. the Dalai Lama:
    A good motivation is what is needed: compassion without dogmatism, without complicated philosophy; just understanding that others are human brothers and sisters and respecting their human rights and dignities. That we humans can help each other is one of our unique human capacities.

    Noam Chomsky:
    States are not moral agents, people are, and can impose moral standards on powerful institutions.

  7. The greatest untold story re COS, IMO is
    its history of religious persecution of the protestant independant Freezone Scientology religion. A violation of the UN Human Rights

    I myself was visited by OSA twice with regard to the Brit Channel 4 program, ” The beginners guide to L ron Hubbard. “. Note that the program was to be originally titled ” Finding God
    through Scientology.” However COS sent streams of legal threats to channel 4, including threats re using the trademark ” Scientology”
    I gather Channel 4 used the tactic from a Chinese philosopher to bend with the wind rather than break, and just changed the title. Its the only TV program ever to show scientology tech in a good light.

    I know many other examples of this religious persecution, including OSA sending ops from the US to threaten the ” mentor” in the program
    with lawsuits if he didn’t help get it stopped. roughly 4 visits a day for a month he recieved.

    And COS promotes that its the prime agent in
    protecting religious freedom! Yuck!!!!

    Aqnyone else have any examples of such actions from COS? I have many.

  8. Marty and Mike,

    With regard to the PI’s following you in the UK: I was told to try the evade the PI’s OSA sent to follow me; to make a series of left turns to throw them off. (You guys probably know if it worked or not).

    I thought it was fairly urgent to tell you this, because this tactic WILL NOT work in the UK. They drive on the wrong side of the road there, and for the tactic to work, you have to make A SERIES OF RIGHT TURNS!

  9. I see your point CC.

    I am a scientologist and do not feel angry by your words.

    I agree that the out points (no matter how minor or how gross, all of them) must be eradicated. The only difference is that I believe we need the structure that took more than 50 years to build, we need the trademarks, we need the official and approved technology left by LRH.

    So, just leaving it all and “doing scientology in the field” is not going to work. We need to take responsibility for what WE ALL CREATED and MAKE it take the shape and form it must be.

    We all contributed to this one way or another, we can´t just leave it at that and let it be, nor can we pretend to destroy it as it would hurt and damage a LOT of very well-intentioned people, as you know.

    We need a church, we need a big worldwide group. We have it, you say it is corrupt, that certain people deviated from LRH. Ok, well christ! Lets put it back on the rails.

    Lets all defend Human Rights! Inside, outside, all over.

    Happy day to all.

  10. “I know many people will consider these stories the delirious hallucinations of a very sick group whose overts and crimes have driven them to dream up all this horrible stories.”

    What? Who and why would they think this? It is called whistle blowing ! Not an illness on any books I know of

  11. Addressing the issue of human rights seems to me to be a very appropriate way to make the c of s accountable for its actions. To all but those within a certain sector of the church, it’s common knowledge that abuses are rampant within the organization. Worse, the abuses are actually systemic – the organization and its policies seem to be structured so that abusive means are preferred and encouraged as ways of controlling people and expanding the church’s scope. Looks to me that the system is rotten. The fact that the Independent field is not trying to emulate that authoritative and highly organized structure makes me happy, and gives me hope that real freedom, not the “slavery is freedom” version offered by the church, is possible.

  12. Which is just as well.

    The hideous abuses perpetrated in Scientology on such as grand scale are only possible because of the massive corporate shell game and monolithic structure.

    I say dismantle it.

    Sell the buildings, and pay reparations to those whose lives were damaged. Do as Geir said, and open-source Hubbard’s writings to be judged alongside those he sought to emulate.

    Christianity has endured true persecution (harassment/imprisonment/death sentences) in parts of the world, but has endured; If The Tech is everything Hubbard claimed it was, it will survive, and thrive, without Corporate CoS to push it. The question is – And this is a genuine question – Are you who still follow it confident enough to put it to that test?

  13. Concerned Citizen

    Dear Mary Jo,

    These quotes you share with us are a treasure. Thank you

  14. Thanks for posting this one, Marty.

    Here in Oz there’ was a brief media storm over “Youth for Human Rights” being a “front-group” and having their official government support withdrawn. Simply because they are a front group.

    Unfortunately, the DVD is a great one and the message is very good – but the Co$ doesn’t follow its own promo and follow the rights but instead abuses them. And so it just becomes another divide between the faithful who still follow the Co$ (“Look what the hate-mongers are attacking now”) and the rest of humanity here who simply think every scientologist is bat-shit crazy.

    It’s a hard one to get around. Somehow the focus has to be kept on the abuses rather than the beliefs and connections.

  15. Concerned Citizen

    Dear Pedro,

    Thank you, I suspect perhaps you have not taken the time to read my previous post, I’m one of the few, very few people who comment on this blog, and feels that the Church can and should be salvaged.

    I’m an active Scientologist, hold most scientologist in the highest regard and know they are worth my time and effort, even some of those who committed some of the abuses I referenced in my post.

    I find that it would be a waste, colossal waste to let it all go to pot. But I also realize that there is one and only one way to salvage it, and it is to use Scientology exactly as LRH intended it. And to insist that LRH policy and tech be honored, including the very clear direction of not violating the laws of the land.

    So you as a Scientologist, insist that LRH is followed and get others to do so. If you really look you will see these violations are rampant.

    So applying Knowledge Report and Justice PL is more vital now than ever.

    Merry Christmas my friend.

  16. Concerned Citizen

    I agree, that is a story that needs to be told. Perhaps you can tell it? Start a blog like Marty’s and make sure it has only truth and facts and not generalities.

    I’ll be honest, till I realized that RTC being the only holder and authorized issuer of the tech was actually killing it, I did not value it being used or in existence somewhere other than within the official church. The very idea of it being held captive now is scary, but until I clearly saw that it is because of this that DM has the freedom to alter it at will, that someone like him can hold it exclusively no one else has access to the originals, only he and those who work unconditionally under his sole authority.

    That is a very scary thought and makes people like me glad you are there.

  17. Tom K,
    Now that sh%$ is funny!

  18. Pedro,
    I’m with you 100%. We also need a very active and winning field. It’s all part of it.

    For the field today, there is a datum from the SO, when a line is broken, bypass it.

    For all of us, we need to fix the broken line as well, while we bypass and win anyway.

  19. lunamoth,
    I recommend you read the early 50s essays on Group Dianetics. Not a criticism of what you wrote mind you, but a suggestion to understand that an ‘organization’ is an organism in the theory expounded in these recommended issues. It really helped me to understand what goes on in groups. It might help you.

  20. MARTY!!!!!


    England is doing you well. Keep it up. When you talk about human rights, you get me all EXCITED!!!

    You are on a ROLL!!!!

  21. Applause.
    Thank you Marty. I think now you realize why even many non-ex-scientologists volunteer their time and energy to stopping these abuses and risk the wrath of OSA simply to try and help people they’ve never met and whose beliefs they don’t even share. Anonymous currently makes up a large part of those people.

    Always remember, the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened. We are all at risk if we stand by silently while other’s rights are abused. Silence is complicity.

  22. Concerned Citizen – Great Post! Thanks for your contribution. 🙂

  23. Olympia Hendricks

    Sure DM violates human rights but Red Cross is also accused of human rights violations by many.

    Regardless, I got a question for you, Marty but also to Jim Logan and others:

    Do you think that DM paid David Mayo and Pat Broker to shut up and become inactive?

  24. CC wrote: “I also know the majority of Scientologist are not aware of the abuses, of the treasonous disdain they are regarded with by the management.”

    Treasonous disdain. Apt description of the underlying manipulation and violation of basic human rights, respect and the LAW — abuses which I experienced, and witnessed.

    Sometimes the best-hearted beings try to take so much responsibility, that they happily accept themselves as the why. While we all could use improvement, and while I ultimately am grateful for every instance (including injustices) that was an opportunity for me to take self-inventory ..it was a gloriously responsible day when the COG all fit together, like an epiphany.

    Perhaps other can relate with how that goes.

    First, “It’s me, what’s wrong with me, it’s my evil”.

    Then, “What a minute, I KNOW I’m clean.”

    Then, Either “Whatever it is, I may not know WHAT but something is not right”
    “I may be the ONLY evil SP in the world, or the only person who has this trouble with them but this is a violation of honor, and I’m not going to condone it.”

    THEN…like the day I saw Marty’s videos, and read other stories…after years of doing great but having laid it to my Org tat IT was behaving as a Liability to ME … the lights go on. And we know, it isn’t juts me. There are others. And darnit, they’re GOOD PEOPLE. Who gave their heart and soul out. Like me!!

    And here we are.

    Yes, the pretended theta by the Org, the “guise” by which they suck in any do-gooding institution to usurp and cloak the underlying *treasonous disdain* to human rights, to human being, to BEINGS…is a social crime.

    It seems a bit unbelievable or over the top because it is cleverly cloaked.

    The technology of human understanding can be used to free or enslave. Hand out a little candy, then throw hold the bag over everyone’s head beyond reach.

    It fooled us, those who had first hand experience, for some time.

    More soon!

  25. This (making it take the shape and form it must be) would warrant a whole game plan, wouldn’t it? I agree there is a lot of positive that has been created. But then, isn’t the whole point delivery? And standard delivery?

    Also I, like many whose experiences I’ve read and come to know, including those who had exec posts and powers, did *everything per policy* with KRs and ethics gradients, but the opposition was intense. This was my first huge failed purpose — that those upon whom I relied to have the same standards and ethics goals, did not act accordingly.

    I decided I could NOT do anything more. So what did I do or not do that I could have done to get my orgs and my group on track? (Genuine question, not rhetoric).

    Can both be ongoing…getting the institution honest & straight AND a having flourishing field?

    Or is the institution on a corrupt foundation…I mean, aren’t trademarks used for business? How do they help?

    I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

  26. 🙂 Good point.

    The girl complaining she was raped is crazy, or wore a mini skirt…right?

    I think the public is getting wise to the “Church’s” public statements and now famous tactic to slander and undermine cred.

  27. “Even anonymous, god help me, I see differently.”

    thats an encouraging thing to read in a very fine post. thanks for opening your mind.

    Even without factoring in the wisdom of the old arabian proverb “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” — stopping the human rights abuses is guaranteed common ground we should all be able to agree upon universally.

  28. I am this minute looking a glossy magazine picture of a faux gold Trophy that consists of 2 rearing horses mounted by Paul Revere type chaps holding torches, with plexiglass, scrolls and ribbons around a blazing torch …

    It looks like something dreamed up by someone stuck in a mixed up Julius Caesar and Cowboy incident, with every earmark of bad taste and nouveau riche vulgarity

    As does the crowning Name! the Name of this atrocity of a “trophy” is most telling of the Ancient Roman metaphor going on in a little dictator’s game-plan for the world: PATRON MAXIMUS.

    And the depth of this tragedy are the rich and un famous who give their dollars to be bestowed with this hideous, gaudy thing and they are not furthering Scientology, they are furthering Real Estate acquisition.

    While hundreds of staff members eat poorly, and treated with less dignity to which any human being is entitled.

    It’s the IAS catalogue I’m looking at. I’m a little stunned, almost as stunned as when I got the DVD of Grand Oompah DM telling an auditorium that all LRH books of the past 50 years had been put together by dimwits.

    seriously…PATRON MAXIMUS?! Is this a joke?!?

    Wasn’t that the name of a Circus? Or famous New York Disco joint.

    Then there is a full page color photo deifying the Grand Oompah standing at another gold festooned podium, in front of gold columns and gold curtains looking benignly (but sternly) at his congregation.

    The opposite page quotes: he “stressed that our magnificent accomplishments of the last 25 years herald a future that will be one glorious than we could have ever imagined.”

    Exsqueeze me? More glorious than a cleared planet?

    Please, Julius, point me to the vomitorium.

    This has become a *racket*, not a business, but a racket.

    The magazine is filled with glossy pictures of (empty) buildings and the grinning

    On this day celebrating Human Rights, can we all just get real?

  29. Oops. I’m looking at a full page glossy photo of Sky Dayton with his Platinum Meritorious trophy in this IAS magazine. He’s the founder of Earthlink and Boingo! Does that mean they can get our IPs and identities ? I mean, many attest to the M.O. , justified by people who think they are doing it for a good cause 😐

  30. I’m sorry but knowign what I KNOW, and seeing this headline in this magazine is pretty outrageous…it reads:

    “Increasing awareness everywhere to ensure human rights abuse doesn’t happen anymore.”

    Hold that headline next to the countless of us who have had our human rights abused on staff and in public. Its epitomizes the expression “looking good on paper.”

    Those who see what’s behind closed doors are howling.

  31. Go Marty… Just the effect of your posts and the position you take has blown serious charge for me. I asked X (figure it out—she is a good friend of yours) if I could pay her 3K an hour for the “services rendered” that resulted from our personal conversations and your team’s efforts to connect people with shared histories. I cannot thank you enough for this. And I don’t have to “donate” to your organization so I can be a better human being. Trademarks and copyrights do not belong in the realm of spiritual freedom. Freedom and payment are mutually exclusive.
    I haven’t fully come to grips with my own story, which goes beyond Scientology, but your efforts here are bold and I am inspired. Bold in a way that I hope to emulate but haven’t I found the strength just yet. I came out of the SO during a period when there was NOT an independent community to support a (what I think was a relatively minor) blown SO member. I struggled through it on my own, completely by myself for many years trying to figure it out. I have not figured it out completely because I cannot reconcile the behaviors of those in the Sea Org with the guidance of LRH. As you have said, SO members becomes “soldiers” of the organization and largely put their own internal moral compasses on standby as they (we) did things that are horrible, but of course rationalized as being right for the group. I have personal story of a guy on the FEBC couldn’t afford to pay for the course… I convinced him with a little MAA madness. The HCO can be so unappealing to those that are human.
    It is s a big deal that we have community that reaches out to people who leave the church. I felt so alone when I came out that I felt at times that there was no way forward. So alone. So alone. I had been a high ranking, successful SO member with tons of respect and a beautiful wife, and yet I was reduced to a fugitive just because I realized early on that management was out of control. This was 1994. I have more to tell, but I want to do this personally with those that I trust. You know who you are.
    Thank you for your courage and, what I understand, our compassion. My experience in the SO leads me to believe that very few people in the SO are anything buy stand-up, go-to sorts of people. It kills me that a group of dedicated people are manipulated so horribly by DM and his (probably unwilling) minions. “Keep It Real”, our squirrel version of KSW…

  32. Tom you are hysterical!!!!

    I’ll remember that advice the next time I go to the UK.

    One question:

    What happens if the PIs are Americans?

  33. Concerned Citizen

    Thanks everyone for your acknowledgements, truly appreciated.
    If you haven’t already, I highly recommend you read Steve Hall’s newest article. “The Iron Door” It has been one of those life-changing articles. Well, pretty much everything on these pages, but that one just got me the longest LFBD FN ever.

    I have wanted to say his website is truly a must, I really meant that, so many so many answers there.

  34. Short answer – If you’re with Earthlink, or send email to Earthlink accounts, yes he could

    Potentially, he and his people could be scanning every bit of data sent through his servers, looking for key words connected to entheta.

    If such things are a concern to you, there are plenty of Anonymous-affiliated websites that can offer advice on keeping your comms secure.

  35. Olympia,
    Regardless of any ‘pay offs’, David Mayo and Pat Broeker are inactive, if they are, because of the principles contained in an issue entitled ‘Responsibility, The Key to All Cases’.

    That’s 28 Jan 60, in the Tech Volumes.

  36. Theo Sismanides

    Hi Marty,

    talking about human rights here, I should like to know WHO runs the show in this mess, concerning the church. You insist it’s David himself, whereas I run into this interview by Dane Tops:

    http://www.projectcamelot.org/Dane_Tops or see in interviews in projectcamelot.org

    This is so inhumane to NOT know WHO runs the show. Dane Tops insists it’s NOT just David Miscavige. There is a secret agenda. You insist otherwise, it’s JUST DAVID.

    Talking about HUMAN rights, I talk about THETAN RIGHTS and the right to my own sanity and the right to leave a game. My own sanity says FIND OUT WHO AND WHY, and I am not convinced it’s JUST DAVID.

    Let’s get back to investigations on David and the WHO. Sorry for being so abrupt but Dane Tops pulled the trigger again.

    Thanks mate,
    ML, Theo

  37. Eleanor Roosevelt

    The juxtaposition of their touting human rights and la chiesa’s actual position, as manifest in the PU, reminds me of a line from the late Stieg Larsson’s excellent novel, “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo”, where one of the characters states:

    “Isn’t it fascinating that Nazis often use the word ‘freedom’ in their titles.”

  38. Thanks, Jim Logan. Any increase in understanding
    is welcome – appreciate your help!

  39. Dear CC,

    I totally agree with you, and that we shall do, count me in 100 %.

    Merry christmas to you too.

  40. Hymie,
    If you haven’t yet appointed yourself Cram Off Earth, I’m doing if for you right here, right now.
    Freaking awesome how you come up with these references. Very cool.

  41. Thought provoking

    Concerned Citizen,

    Thank you for bringing this up and for reminding me why I write on this blog. I listened to the PSA’s again and was quite moved by them. For those who haven’t listened to them recently, you should do so but be forewarned that it is hard to listen to them and not tear up a bit over the knowledge that these very same human rights violations are occurring, as a matter of course, within the walls of the church’s management. I have found staff members to be the most caring, selfless dedicated people that I have ever met akin to missionaires who work to help third world countries. Only the staff member helps others achieve spiritual freedom. Their personal pride and significance as beings is easily seen as a result of successful application of the tech and in helping others. No amount of money can replace that. It is the reason that I have always felt that being a staff member was one of the noblest callings, whether it be in the church or the field. That these noble people should be forbidden their own human rights is deplorable. And those not affected directly are affected indirectly by management which has lost it’s true purpose, having been enticed beyond resistance by the MEST Universe. Another example of the enslaver himself, being enslaved.

    The truth will set you free…we’ve heard this many times. None will find the truth, that does not look. We have also heard of Look, Don’t Listen and practiced Obnosis and the Tone Scale. We pride ourselves with our clarity of observation, yet many of us missed what was going on in the upper levels of church management. How is it that so many Scientologists have the idea that “looking” is bad, you’ll end up in ethics with condition assignments, sec checks, etc.

    After reading the SP Times, the reports are so criminal that I can”t simply ignore them. I weigh out the pros and cons of further investigation…a fork in the road, so to speak. It’s amazing how willing you are to take a look at the truth once you had had a chance to de-PTS yourself of the group. I decide to forge on ahead with my “current” Scientology education only to find out that the reports were very credible and what was occurring was not at all current. Things have been unwraveling for quite a long time. How did I miss this? Occassionally a creditable non-Scientologist will use the term BRAINWASHING in regards to Scientology, the very mention of it send up a ridge. I chose to see what I wanted to see, an ideal Scientology that was expanding and making the planet right. I had selective hearing and to that degree, I had allowed myself to be brainwashed into believing DMs hype and PR. The exposure of DM and his human rights violations allowed me to look at the truth about myself and my relationship to Scientology. I could no longer support an organization that was corrupt. I have always felt secure with the tech and my future ability to apply the tech to myself and others, Ron made sure it would always be here fore me.

    Again, I think back to those dedicated staff, some ignorant of what is going on and others eduring daily human rights violations, too PTS to do anything about it. Human Rights is an expression of man’s humanity for his fellow man. Scientologists are my friends and they need and deserve my help. For those who cannot help themselves today, I will be your voice. You have many listeners and many friends around the world and you (and your goodness) are not forgotten. In the celebration of Human Rights around the world, I will take responsibility and share what I know because, you have rights!. I do this so that one day enough voices will be heard and you my friends can also be free…to live a life that rewards those who have helped so many, for so long.

  42. SomeoneElse,
    I second that. Either it will stand the test or it won’t.

    So sure, dismantle it. It’s too corrupt to bother with anymore, and those dedicated Sea Org members and even lower org staffers need deprogramming, not a revised job description.

    Part of the dismantling will involve some sancrosanct LRH policy. Ken Urquhart has kindly explained that the ol’ man “deteriorated” over the years. How tactful.

  43. This post interests me because my husband and I recently found that Earthlink subscribers could not receive any email we sent to them that included a link to a certain site (the one regarding the recent lawsuit filed against dm for human trafficking). We have earthlink ourselves, and only discovered this when I copied my husband on an email I also sent to friends. The email sent to that Earthlink account never arrived; sent to a friend’s Earthlink account (with a different spam program) it ended up in her spam file. Sent to her husband who has a different provider, it arrived as expected. As an experiment, we repeated this several times, each tine with the same outcome.

    Numerous attempts to get to the bottom of this with Earthlink (still I/P) are feeling a lot like running in a circle. A complaint to the FCC may be next. I consider THIS a basic human right, the right to my comm lines, free of hidden interference!

  44. veritas,
    I understand the point of having confronted a scence and written KRs, done what you thought was applicable according to your hatting on it, and been frustrated when it didn’t get sorted out.

    Here’s a quote from Data Series 11, The Situation:”The only danger is that the situation can be so far from any ideal that others with fixed ideas and madness can defy the most accurate and sensible solutions.
    But that’s part of the situation, isn’t it?

    KRC, that’s the key to handling any Sit. Including the one you mention, even where it’s as crazy wide as it is today. That means, training, in both tech and admin and lots of practice until you can play those pianos.

    I’d have to sit down and do a full cram with you personally to sort out what you could do specifically to handle what you ran into. Short of that, read and you’ll find out what you didn’t know. I don’t mean to be general by that either, I’m giving you sound advice: study the whole works.

    There is an issue LRH ED 54 Int, Superior Service Image, from 1969, that goes over the field and the orgs and a relationship that is postulated. Read that in a new unit of time. It’s in OEC Vol 6.

    The marks’ purpose is to guarantee what you are getting is LRH Scientology. That’s the stuff that works.

  45. Someone Else,
    The tech has survived. I use it along with countless others. I certainly don’t have ‘Corporate CoS’ to push it. I’m out here studying every day and auditing regularly and I’m pushing it myself. Along with countless others.

    The materials are all available on the internet. (Read thoughtful’s recent posting). It’s already ‘open sourced’.

    The CofS will endure, the field will endure, individual Scientologists learning, polishing and practicing will endure. Not only that, you, yep, you, can obtain, study and learn it from the bottom to as high as you can attain, right now, with no ‘corporate’ anything.

    Sheesh. This is simple stuff really.

  46. Caxseorg,
    I know exactly what you mean by ‘alone’. Exactly!

    I can’t recommend with more sincerity that you get a hold of the library of materials available to you and get reading. It has been the best thing I’ve ever done.

    You are NOT ALONE any longer either. Welcome back mate.

  47. Reading it now. The link you posted doesn’t work (was missing the html) but I found it here

  48. Dear Mr. Rathbun,

    I don’t know if this is the correct way to contact you. Couldn’t find an email address and am not au fait with ‘blog tech’.
    I am in the process of extracting myself from the CofS after many years of apathetic uninvolvement (bogged 18+ year clear cycle). Your blog has been very valuable to me.
    I have just come upon the ‘Dane Tops Letter 1982’. I assume you are familiar with it, I don’t know about its legitimacy but its striking relevance at this time made me feel it would be valuable to your readers. The spirit of it is strikingly similar to the tone of your excellent blog. It also fills in a lot of gaps for those not ‘in the loop’.I found it at projectcamelot.org.

  49. Dear Thought provoking:

    Your comment is very thought provoking indeed.

    This exactly duplicates my own thoughts and feelings.

    Thank you for communicating!

  50. Concerned Citizen

    Dear Thought provoking,

    I share your feelings. I too wonder how can it not be obvious, and I saw that I too saw what I wanted to see. Let me offer an idea of how it may be that this can happen to people like you and me.

    It is What LRH called “The Safe Solution” in ser-fac tech, as outlined by LRH in the tape, “The Prior Confusion” and others which our very own and very excellent friends, Joe Howard and Jim Logan etc. can point us to. (Are we not the luckiest bunch on earth to have them in our midst?)

    Anyhow, it is so simple,

    1. Scientology, the technology helped dig some of us from life’s confusion, we then adopted IT as a stable datum, so far so good,
    2. But then forgetting to look any further, we accepted the notion that the Church and the technology are one and the same and that the Church is the only custodian of it. So we left it all up to them.
    3. May be we joined staff to help, but then we were only able to see one 5000th of the picture. Need to know is widely practiced in the Church.
    4. So when Management says we are expanding, winning, this person is an SP, etc. we believe them because we have seen the miracles of the tech, we have read LRH’s directions and we “know” this group is trustworthy because they are the tech we so much trust.
    5. Agreeing to the “think” commanded by those we trust most, we committed overts and justified them, and so now we are in deep.
    6. Only we really should have been looking from the start, just like LRH said and we should have never accepted that falsehood that the org and the tech are one and the same.
    7. Then having invested so much into it, having dedicated so much into it, it is hard to come to grips with the fact that we were wrong on that one “Safe Solution.’ It takes a considerable amount of fortitude to admit to oneself that one has given over everything, to an illusion conjured up by a master illusionist. We resist it and sees not only the lies the illusionist(conman) gave him, but also the justifications used to convince ourselves we were doing the right thing every time we did something harmful in the name of following command intention.
    8. It entails the admission of having being wrong, and for many still unable to spot that crashing MU/false data — the Church = the tech, when there finally is no choice but to confront the wrongness of it all, it means at last abandoning the whole of package including the tech and even turning against it discarding that earlier workable stable datum instead of the pernicious false datum/crashing MU.

    That is what I think creates this inability, reluctance to see, and the analogous haters, both equally operating on that crashing MU, False Datum. And both justifying their own overts, one convinced it was the right thing, and the other convinced it was all the responsibility of the illusionist. And it is true to a large degree that said conman, is the most responsible, for until each can confront and come to terms with their own responsibility, there is likely to be little change. Fortunately the cure for misunderstood and false data is getting the true data, which these sites accomplish well.

    I hope Joe, Thoughtful, T Paine, Jim, Marty and others better trained and more eloquent than I tell us their opinion of my theory and if possible expand on it. Perhaps we can twist their arms to write an article for us? I find this one question mystifies many people, including Scientologist and clarifying it would blow a lot of charge.

  51. Ewdon Bwaun,
    Ken Urquart is very clear in his statements that he applies the materials of L. Ron Hubbard, exactly and to rave results. That says it all Ewdon.

  52. Bingo,
    Make some popcorn when you read the Dane Tops interview. I seem to recall DM was pushing this sort of ‘Illuminati’ conspiracy as reported on this very blog. Oh me, oh my. How does that work?

  53. That’s a great post, Thought Provoking. Keep going, just as you are.

    The infringement of these basic human rights of Sea Org staff and others is what compels me to protest.

    This UN Declaration is the bedrock upon which we all stand, no matter our beliefs, together. It is what we have in common and what we can fight for together.

  54. Eldon Braun, your acerbic comments add vinegar to the salad!

    Seomtimes your charming spice borders on bitterness, though, and I’m sorry to hear that because …well, unless you’re not a human being, then you too are or will be accomplishing your bright, shining contributions and life through some type of deterioration or another.

    As someone who has experienced much wonder, relief and friendship from L. Ron Hubbard’s contributions, I’m particularly humbled and grateful for the benefits …

    And I find it really amazing that the most stellar contributions to humanity throughout the ages have been tendered through the imperfection, entropy, and burdens that come with being human.

    And every one of those outstanding contributions — be they art, science, philosophy — speak to the Ages in that famous line made famous by Rappers everywhere: “You can’t touch this.” 🙂

  55. Jim,

    Thanks. I need to get a set of OEC volumes and will follow up on that ref.

    I’m reading the Dane Tops letter http://www.projectcamelot.org/Dane_Tops_letter.pdf (why didn’t I see this back in the 80s!!)

    Have blown so much charge it’s just incredible. There’s more charge coming off on being hit or targeted for being upstat or consistently delivering huge theta reaches/products.

    When struggling to understand, if I even dared think that I was being hit for being upstat before , I would toss the possibility or Why out immediately and chastise myself. I mean, how could a place claiming it was dedicated to Theta penalize or resent Theta, right!?

    Disappointment, betrayal, it’s huge…HUGE when the dearest dreams and reality of who and what we truly are is betrayed.

    Not only from what we receive personally, but that most stellar of human qualities…service. Many were stopped from serving at full capacity.

    Thank you for the references.

    Thank you everyone here.

    Looking forward to the day when the experience is fully translated to wisdom and it will all be a huge linecharge. 🙂

  56. Caxseorg, roger that and ditto that on feeling completely ‘alone.’

    God is this ever a huge deal.

    We did not imagine all the goodness possible. It is real.

  57. Lunamoth, Wow! Your experiment results were repeatable so it does not sound like mere coincidence.

    The thing that would concern me is that I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the unethical practices in which a robotic “zealotry” can engage, with the ease of drinking a glass of water justifying violations of human rights and illegal acts for the “cause” (saving the Orgs from imaginary SPs).

    It’s creepy. 😦

  58. Mark,

    Malcom-X was a racist, don’t compare him with Martin Luther King please. What’s your obsession with African American leaders anyway? I really don’t get it.

  59. martyrathbun09

    Billy, your comment calling Malcolm racist smacks of bigotry. I gave you a reference with specific facts. Instead of studying facts, you expressed criticism of an “obsession” with “African American leaders.” The only obsession evident is your own.

  60. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. I spent about five minutes perusing it before I encountered enough leaps in logic and false data to consider it a terrible distraction. The page implies this “letter” had some gigantic influence with the splintering that occured in the early eighties. Not true. Someone commented on this blog that it seemed to contain some of DM’s propaganda and I tend to agree. Buy into it and go PTS to the unnamed “enemy.”

  61. Sorry, wasn’t aware I was posting. Not meant to be BPI as my ‘outing’ is very much I/P. Oh well, my cover is blown!
    I accept what you say and don’t by into the conspiracy theory angle but some of what is said later on is insightful as it seems to describe what DM is doing right now –

    ‘the idea that they can afford to make mistakes and fix them later.
    The group aesthetic of “purifying” becomes mob-like and the momentum
    of the group carries it forward. Only when there is no one left to remove,
    when too many posts become unmanned or improperly manned, when stats
    crash, does the ” aesthetic” lift enough to start to see that some really pretty
    heavy disaster has taken place.
    When one has become the effect of such an aesthetic beingness, he is
    likely to believe he has “seen the light” and all others who do not share the
    beingness become the unenlightened. As far as duplication, the beingness
    acts as a set of blinders on a horse. One cannot actually duplicate anyone
    who doesn’t share the beingness because the beingness is an additive to the
    comm formula.
    In Scientology the “purify the tech” BEINGNESS that is being instilled is
    having the effect of separating and individuating people from all those who
    don’t have the same beingness, WHETHER THE OTHERS ARE DELIVERING
    STANDARD TECH OR NOT. This arbitrary beingness that is being mocked up
    and demanded is one of the biggest additives in Scientology, and it is
    lowering duplication.’

    Doesn’t this describe the current scism between Church and Independent field?

    I meant no disrespect in comparing the tone/ spirit of the letter and your blog.
    Sorry for the dodgy comparison, apparent similarities not similar!

  62. martyrathbun09

    Thanks – yeah that is a good observation/prediction. I’ll read more when I get the chance. People just shouldn’t take the factual predicates he lays as gospel.

  63. Olympia,
    I don’t know about Pat Broeker, but I do know that Scientology was pretty much losing the legal case against David Mayo. So when it came time for discovery of the original materials in question, they wrote a check and settled the case. Mayo was being supported financially by Frank “Sarge” Gerbode, who is wealthy, so he could afford to whup them in court.

  64. I said some administrative policy would need to be eliminated. I wasn’t talking about technical stuff.

    As for Ken Urquhart, have you read his blog?

    Here’s what he has to say about the Fair Game policy. Quote:
    [Fair Game was officially repudiated by L. Ron Hubbard in order to appease the New Zealand Government, but the act was a sham, a lie, a piece of paper which he had no intention of honouring in deed. I know that because he announced as much right in front of me when the news came that he needed to issue the cancellation of Fair Game policy. His evident intention was to suppress the overt practice of Fair Game for a while but to continue the practice when he felt it was needed, but not get caught at it.]

    So do reassure me again, Jim, about how that policy was canceled by LRH and reinstated by Miscavige.

    You might also enjoy this 1986 interview with Russel Miller:

  65. Billy –

    At least see the movie Malcolm X if you won’t spend the time to read his autobiography or other books – before you voice such an opinion.

    Secondly, I find incredible hope and strength by reading of leaders who came from horrific backgrounds, overcame the sick prejudice of their times to lead, lead with dignity and pride AND embrace everyone, in the end.

    If you are indeed no longer affiliated with the current CofS, then perhaps it would be a great idea to see just HOW bigoted and prejudiced scientologists inside are. How THEY are racist pure and simple. How IF they could exile all those opposing them they would.

    Try talking to a someone still involved inside the structure of scn and you’ll see what bigotry is. You’ll see that they don’t see YOU, don’t hear YOU and certainly cannot give you good quarter.

    And because scientologists believe they are homo novis then I will continue to say – it is THEY, not Marty or those who contribute regularly to this board, who are racists.

    Homo novis VS the rest of the human race. WOW — now THAT’s racist.


  66. Theo Sismanides


    It is evident that a lot of people here didn’t know about the Dane Tops letter and now have read it. This helps in all aspects.

    We are not taking anything for gospel. None of the people here took anything for gospel even in Scientology, this is why we are here.

    We don’t need though another David Miscavige, we already have one (LOL), the Only One, our savior. We don’t need another one.

    Any forum, anything under the sun and the moon will carry on as long as it’s comm lines are open and people can speak up freely. I am more referring to Justin’s answer than you.

    Thus I am speaking freely and I am questioning you and many others here about DM as we now have an exterior viewpoint and a safe viewpoint that is.

    I am not blaming anyone for the past. That is gone. If we now though have a chance to talk again over what happened/what is happening we should be able to express ourselves freely as to what we observe ourselves.

    This is so basic to human rights and pertains much more than anything else with the topic of this link.

    I am still not convinced that it’s just DM and I have a right to my own sanity.

    Maybe we could open up a topic on that. I can express myself there appropriately.

    To talk about Human Rights in an INSANE world is nuts anyway.

    Sorry Marty, I am sure you do not want another DM, you do not want another nightmare.

    Talking about human rights I am urging you to open up a new topic on CST, DM, the whole thing so as to focus on the subject we have all been so happy with and so much hurt afterwards.

    This is a free speech in a FREE forum. This FREEDOM of COMMUNICATION alone will cause that IRON DOOR (as Steve Hall mentions, amazing post by the way, I read it this morning) to open for us.

    We are POTENTIALLY FREE BEINGS, the only thing we have to learn is to HANDLE FORCE and still we have not managed to be able to handle our own COMMUNICATIONal FREE EXPRESSION. This goes to Justin more than you, I repeat. You never censored any my comms anyway.

    I respect your viewpoints. I expect mine are respected too. In any case nobody can say if DM is alone or NOT. That is an assumption.

    Open a topic Marty. Let’s talk about it.



  67. Joey,
    I’ll tell you, and everybody else I guess, a ‘secret’. While LRH was continuing his work at the Ranch, continuing his life, working away with the staff there on various and sundry aspects of living and such, he would chat with my ex-wife, Annie.

    In one of those chats, relayed to me by Annie, he told her that she needed to get trained fully on the whole subject of Scientology.

    What I got from her, as she told me this and passed on the conversation, was also a non-verbal communication whose intention passed to me, via her: she would do as well as she did get fully and thoroughly trained.

    I got the distinct impression, again passed on via her, that it was a lot more fun knowing what was going on than bumping into walls and bouncing around batting at unimportant dust motes.

    Scientology has an aim of bringing about a better game and improving ones ability to make and play games, in ones own estimation.

    I got the distinct impression, LRH was having about as much fun as a guy could have. Fluid on the tone scale, with KRC and interest, and that wonderful grin.

    Every being should have their own ‘qual library’ of materials. From there, read them, and then all sorts of things get very much simpler and way more fun.

  68. CC,
    As part of my current course I’m on, I studied a tape, 18 Oct 61, Valences, Circuits. This is right around the time the Problems Intensive was being put together and the theories behind it were being explained.

    I couldn’t possibly cover all the data in this post but there are a couple of ideas that I’ll relate. You are in the right area with the ‘safe solution’ concept. The ‘safe solution’ that just becomes another problem because it doesn’t as-is the first one.

    There is something else applicable too. The motion and co-motion one partakes of when he joins the group.

    One agrees to be part of that motion. But, what is it in Scientology that one agrees to be co-motioning with? For some it’s just a great group of enthusiastic beings following various programs and ‘policies’ toward a purpose clearly or not so clearly stated. The ‘mores’ of the group are clearly or not so clearly stated. In lots of cases they are passed on verbally, with all the bias and alteration possible in that medium. Maybe they are even tacit and ‘picked up’ as you go along.

    Whatever the individual circumstances may be, an agreed upon co-motion comes into being. Mores exist. One is in ARC with others toward a purpose and to the degree that one is being along with the group in that ARC, one feels he can engage in action and motion with the others. He’ll be to whatever degree, responsible and willing to participate in the motion.

    Then one, inadvertantly or intentionally, commits a transgression against the mores he’s agreed to, tacitly or otherwise. He withholds this to some degree most likely, not wanting to lose the ARC he’s having. Now, he’s in motion and at the same time trying to be still. He’s got a confusion. He’s got a problem, an intention/counter-intention. He has to act, but he can’t act, he’s got to withhold.

    He is no longer reaching out with his action, with his perception, fully into the motion, and is less aware. He ‘solves’ this problem by adopting a ‘safe solution’. An example, ‘I’ll keep my head down and just try and do my job and stay out of trouble’. Or, ‘this will all work out as there are those who know more than me and they are in charge, so I’ll just do what they say and be safe’.

    What happens in a Scientology group follows the mechanics of any group. BUT there is a huge difference in this one: the ‘mores’ aren’t senior to ETHICS. ‘Command Intention’ is a moral code point, not an ethics code point.

    The mores exist, tacit or written, and have as much impact as any set of mores. Up until the point where the mores aren’t ethical. Then one has a ‘problem’.

    All too often, that problem is ‘solved’ with another ‘safe solution’ Again, here’s the HUGE difference with Scientology: real solutions are those which duplicate the problem and as-is. ‘Scientology’ itself can become a ‘safe solution’ in which case, it eventually becomes just another ‘problem’. UNLESS, one applies Scientology! This is the first time the ‘cure’ doesn’t just become another ‘problem’ to solve with another ‘safe solution’.

    See, it works this way, the Ultimate Truth, the Static, can view and as-is.

    What is evident on this blog, and various other sites, with the communication that is occurring is that a whole bunch of closer to Ultimate Truths, are viewing the is-nesses and as-ising them.

    Scientology is something that enables one to step outside the mechanics of aberration, and is a cure that doesn’t become another problem.

    But you gotta know it to use it.

  69. Justin,
    Have you ever read The Story of A Static? Here it is: (this quoted issue is for education and academic purposes only, i.e. ‘fair use’)

    “l February 1957
    Once upon a time there was a thetan, and he was a happy little thetan and the world was a simple thing. It was all very, very simple.
    And then one day somebody told him he was simple.
    And ever since that time he has been trying to prove that he is not.
    And that is the history of the Universe, the Human Race, the Fifth Invaders, the
    Fourth Invaders, the 31/2 Invaders, the people on Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Arcturus, the
    Markab Galaxy, the Markab System, the Psi Galaxy, Galaxy 82—
    I don’t care where you look—that’s the story.
    Only it’s too simple a story, much too simple a story, because a thetan would
    have to admit he was simple if he understood it.
    L R H”

    ‘Dane Tops’ is a case in point. A term comes to mind, sophistry; clever, but misleading. (Even entertaining I suppose, like the Da Vinci Code.)

  70. Scooter,
    Here is a quote from the Wikipedia article on Youth for Human Rights:

    In 1995, the Hamburg Senate released a report on Scientology, describing its structure and the dangers it presented to individuals and society. One passage, citing Scientology documents, clarified the role of all organizations, which, like YHRI, are linked to the church.

    “In an internal memo, Scientology described the function of affiliate organizations:

    ‘All organizations and groups form a global network. Each one has its own individual role and responsibilities. But all service organizations have the goal to draw attention to L.Ron Hubbard’s technology and deliver it to the public.’

    “Thus, each activity, however distantly it is related to Scientology, fits into a long-term strategic plan, which is ultimately steered by the highest management.”

  71. Situation: A very ‘muddy field’. Opposition numbers growing.
    Data: Beginning in the early 80’s vast numbers of Scientologists dismissed as ‘squirrel’ , ‘SP’. Wrong Target, DM.
    Why: From Manual of Justice: “You punish a man. He goes away to join the ranks of the squirrels. You swell the opposition. Don’t do it.”
    Who: DM
    Ideal Scene: a restored faith in justice.
    Handling: apply ethics/justice: remove the SP and restore faith in justice.

    Just a thought on a Sunday afternoon.

  72. Thankyou for posting about the Humman Rights, as it is very important for all.
    Personally I felt sad, angry, upset when I found all I thought my Church was fighting against, was doing it to their finest and most Up Stat staffs.
    I rememeber I read an LRH refenece where he says Scn belongs to all, that Scn is for the ones who know it and apply it, and that is why he never gaved it to anybody but to the people. (If someone can remember that ref. please tell me where I can find it). I think, LRH planned Scn and Dianetics to be for the people, the ones who use it for good. It is there for us.
    Sure there can be SPs in the lines, sure people may try to alter it, but thats why he creates KSW series.
    Scn changes your life conditions, you are a Scientologyst because of the def of Scn, and not because someone OWNS a trademark or not. The owner of the trademarks of Scn does not OWN my thoughts or my life, and Scn you have to know it so you can apply it.
    I have had tremendos life changes, wins and regained abilities in me and others, to allow this tech to be altered and black PRed.
    I think that if Scn has become a SCQUIRREL of LRH tech, is good to have a group that is willing to keep it right and straight. All those crimes that are being commited against staffs if you observe, are easely done if the staffs doesn’t know the tech, and I see that in PT not many are alowed to be trained, and if you go and want to get trained as an auditor, in a class V org, you first need to do all the books (which are altered from the originals), and then do all the following training with the GAT.
    I have friends who have done the SHSBC up to 3 times because of different changes made on it… I personally had to do 2 times my Student Hat because of the GAT came up and also all my pro TRs and auditor training and internships… I can’t open a group in my city because the sup we have has not done the GAT, and he can’t supervise us, I can’t go and do the Cl V auditor course because I have to re do the Cl IV interniship and so I am stuck, or I re do all the trainig I did. This puts a person is a state if uncertanty, not certanty.
    Do I have the correct tech? Do I know it correctly??
    All I see is arbitraries…. and those, we need to get rid of.

    Well, thank you Marty to have this blog, to open the eyes of many, to unite us, to communicate, to allow us to communicate.

    What I see is a lack of training in many cases. “If you don’t know the tech you can become the adverse effect of it…” remember???

    Keep moving on up!!!

  73. Add to the above thought on a Sunday afternoon from HCO PL Justice, 24 Feb 69:”The personal security of the staff member is so valuable to him apparently that when it is undermined (by false accusations or injustice) he becomes less willing and less efficient and is the real reason for a PTS condition.
    “The only thing which can actually remedy a general insecure feeling is a renewed faith in justice.”

    That’s the policy for the Ideal Scene.

  74. Billy obviously you have never read The Autobiography of Malcom X. IF you had you would know that before he was assassinated in church in front of his children, he reformed his ideas and was preaching unity. Thus bringing about his assassination. Please do some research before spouting lies. Malcom X was a great leader and thinker as was Martin Luther King Jr. As so what if they are black. What difference does that make?

  75. Hi Jim,

    Very concise eval and I fully agree with it!


  76. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. Evil is the toughest thing in the world to confront. It is a lot simpler to dream up reasons why confronting the evil facing one is pointless. There are plenty places you can go to practice that. Not here. We’re staying somewhat focused.

  77. Theo Sismanides

    Dear Marty,

    I confronted DM when I was in the Sea Org. The CO CLO EU then, Walter Kotric announced to the staff that I was implying COB was squirrel. That was at the muster of all staff!! When everybody else was just a chicken I HAD A STABLE DATUM I used to confront every body. And mainly COB. The HCOBs on translations. Dead Agent-ed the hell out of him with just a simple datum: Standard Tech, HCOBs.

    No body could understand WHY those HCOBs were not applied. It was not understood. Yet, nobody dared do anything about it. AUTHORITY, my friend. Titles, and names and posts and a whole structure behind them to support the NON Understanding and Squirreling. Plus the black Propaganda and all the lies and falsehoods.

    We have been through the same shit. You happened to be higher on the Org Board and you had your share of suppression, much more than I had.

    However, I cannot accept that I am dreaming up and I do not confront evil. I did and I could again if needed. It would be much easier for me to accept it’s just DM. Believe me. It would be much easier for me to NOT go against what others see and what the boss says. But I learned from my humble post and training in Scientology to have ONE stable datum and align everything else to that, until I have a better understanding of the situation. When I have questions, I do not not-is. I try to get the answers no matter how high I get on the Org Board.

    So I confronted ED Int with the HCOBs on translations and got a whole bunch of verbal data from him but before I did get an answer from him that basically I was right and the HCOBs on translations should have been applied.

    Then the RTC Reps…. etc. etc. You know, non-sequitur answers, that made me feel I was a good staff member, really valuable to Scientology and I should go on on that line, because it didn’t make sense at all. I felt like in a conspiracy Marty. Nobody can take away this from me. It was a conspiracy to have all senior terminals give me verbal data and a hidden data line on why and how those HCOBs could not or should not “per policy” not be applied.

    I don’t like to be a tiring and boring person. I just think that this community can have a chance to make a difference. And not to repeat the mistakes we did in the past. There is no dreaming, there are questions.

    I am not going to insist on the DM matter and who is behind him or not, since staying focused interests me and I can have my viewpoint anyway. If you ever open the subject you are going to get questions from me and I bet from others, real, valid, logical questions that have never been answered as they should have. So entheta spreads and witch hunting starts etc. etc. I bet there are many misunderstandings spread on the Internet and this has caused a lot of confusions.

    This is all I cared for and I care for. To clean up the area with free, open communication and I bet you if that existed and was done in a sane way without any additives a lot of people would have a big win. But you think and maybe Jim thinks that everybody knows the situation exactly as you guys do and when you hear of a somewhat odd aspect that it is not worth explaining and sheddling some more light into the matter. No, this is a skipped gradient for many, maybe not for you guys. This is all I care for because I know with enough communication and affinity, Reality is going to come back to place and everything is going to smoothen out.

    Thanks for listening
    ML, Theo

  78. Theo Sismanides

    Oh, and one other thing. That incident messed up my sanity so much, because it was not really Understood why and how come HCOBs wouldn’t apply, that you can say I somehow got stuck on it. It was my only defense against the suppression. So, speaking about Human Rights and the Rights of a Thetan and not to lose my sanity I grabbed one stable datum and it was not “just Scientology”, it was just a datum which was unshakeable and that was Standard Tech. And I had all of Mgmt against it, which makes you wonder and I still do… not as to why this was happening but as to HOW COME this was happening. How come all of Mgmt could not see it. This is my question. How come nobody would stand up and fight. So I exerted my second right as a thetan and left. Pretty sane I’d say.

  79. Billy,
    It’s true that Malcolm X said things like “The white man is the devil” back in his separatist period. But he was really talking about the endemic slaveholder mentality of white America in those days.

    You might want to check out some of the things he said about “house Negroes” vs. “field Negroes.” Perhaps somewhat analogous to public Scientologists vs. staff members?

  80. “If you are indeed no longer affiliated with the current CofS, then perhaps it would be a great idea to see just HOW bigoted and prejudiced scientologists inside are. How THEY are racist pure and simple. How IF they could exile all those opposing them they would.”

    WH, what gives? Scientologists aren’t racists, I’ve never met one and I’ve known over 1000. We believe we’re all thetans randomly getting new bodies each lifetime. Ron said he was in Africa for a few lives.

  81. Yourfriendtoo, good info on auditor stops, thanks.

  82. So by this logic, if David Miscavige were tomorrow to claim he reformed and begin to enforce 100% standard tech, renounce his abuses, ask for forgiveness that’d be acceptable then? Please tell me it would.

  83. Theo, I agree, a topic on this subject is worth the time.
    When I left quietly back in the mid 80’s … I did so because what I observed, what I felt in every bone in my body was that the church had been infiltrated.
    I knew Miscavige was a part of it but only a small part, a straw man of sorts. And the final straw at that. I don’t hang out or Scn boards or read the speculations, it would be too time consuming for one. But I have questions, a lot even after all these years. There seem to be people frequenting this blog that could answer them.

    Marty, I don’t understand what you are saying to Theo? Are you saying that just focusing on outing DM is the actual confront of some evil? And not believing that he is the why is some inability to confront evil? I don’t think so. Even though I wish it were that simple.

    I spent too many years ignoring what I was seeing with my own eyes because as a good staff member I was meant to just carry on with my work and not be sidetracked. I no longer believe that is effective, based on direct experience.
    Each of us should define what our mission is based on our own obnosis and integrity.

    Perhaps, as usual this will become a small select group with need to know attitudes and those who are considered marginal will not be in on it. If that becomes the situation then it’s just more of the same.

  84. martyrathbun09

    Before you go making judgments like that read the entire blog – from the first post on. If you still feel like that, fine, you really ought to be on those other boards you say you don’t frequent.

  85. Bullseye Jim does it again, nice eval.

  86. martyrathbun09

    Good point. One purpose for having X on recommended reading is to help people get out of their slave mentality. The Field Scientologists are calling out Mr. Charlie. Whether the House Scientologists ever wake up is anyone’s guess.

  87. Victoria it is worse than anyone could possibly imagine, reading Omar Garrison’s two books which you can read in full at the following links:



    Both give the depths the US Government has gone to undermine Scientology.

    That said, of course there are many coincidentalologists out there who dismiss a possible conspiracy.

    However, actually locating it is something like trying to find Waldo!

    Believe me been there done that.

    Oh yeah dear David has evident links, for instance his close association with Hill & Knowlton during the early ’90’s:


    The fact that his name is enshrined on the following list:


    All good stuff, but then as Thoughtful Steve over at Scientology-cult astutely pointed out. The fact is that it wouldn’t matter what agency he may be working for, the fact is he isn’t working for us!

    Maybe someday we may find out who he is actually working for but right now it doesn’t matter!

    It’s what he is doing right now that’s important and whatever that is *ain’t Scientology*!

  88. Concerned Citizen

    Dear Theo,

    I have but one suggestion for you. What is true for you is what is true for you. But by the same token, what is true for marty is what is true for him.

    I share his opinion. But you are entitled to your own conclussions, I assure you he is not attempting to detract from these, only saying what he honestly sees as true.

    hope this settles it.

  89. Thought provoking,

    Your posting reminds me of another friend who worked on shooting those PSAs at Gold.

    My friend realized at that time that those very items they were shooting and putting on film were human rights that LRH believed in as he wrote scripts for these. However, the sinking realization was that these human rights did definitely not pertain to those at the Int/Gold base in Hemet.

    My friend line charged and really laughed about remembering it – as those human rights have now been regained and it became a happier outlook.

  90. The entire purpose of Scientology having a human rights stance is to create an attack line for them. In other words, how can you be against Scientology or critical of it when it’s designed to embrace and empower human rights?

    He even prattles on for about five minutes on how to deal with attacks on the Church, his entire idea is to divert to human rights he calls it an automatic human response system and claims “an attack on Scientology is an attack on human rights and anyone attacking Scientology is in favor of Psychiatric Death Camps”.

    “The general attack line is along the lines of: Human Rights…Human rights; now I’ll give you a clue on how this is handled. A person comes up to you, he’s a hostile person, he’s hostile to Scientology then you say why are you against human rights? And then if you know anything about human rights or the declaration of Human rights or the United States you just follow right up, in other words you don’t defend Scientology, you just attack along this line of Human Rights”

    L. Ron Hubbard “Ron’s Journal 1968”

  91. Theo Sismanides

    Dear Marty and all,

    Thanks for publishing my comments and replies. So we are tracking, so there are different viewpoints, so there is people who believe it’s DM and there is people who believe it’s not JUST DM.

    So, we keep our viewpoints but the main Reality is Scientology, so we are tracking. I am basically covered by Victoria and RJ who have said what they said.

    I am also covered by you and Concerned Citizen as we can discuss things and keep our viewpoints and this is a free forum, so we can speak our minds and proceed.

    So we can carry on as the definition of Sanity is the ability to see differences whereas the Bank just gets stuck and does an A=A=A. Reminds you of someone?

    We are different in that we can differentiate and can proceed no matter some of our differences.

    After all, I had a very good news yesterday and that is that a Class XII auditor just left the Sea Org and landed in Italy, right next to us. I contacted him yesterday.

    So, I trust and I follow and can duplicate things, keeping my viewpoints and not causing unRealities to others and I would like to add that you, Marty, have the power via this blog and what you have done in Scientology to move on much more higher, ha ha. So, I give you my support. This is a given.

    After all what I have concluded all these years that I am an Independent is that the whole of the church is OUR DIVISION 6:



    So, I follow, so I focus, I am no stupid guy as long as there are results from what we are doing. We are all short tempered as LRH said in an FO, (sorry I don’t recall which one) you know that guys. We want to move on and mostly now that we got something in the works.

    Thanks again

  92. To Boyd: Chances are I’ve met and known as many scientologists as you and I will tell you with complete conviction that MOST, not all are racists.

    Not black/white racists. Not Jewish/Gentile racists but typically a BETTER THAN THEM GUYS racist. Me scientologist good — you wog/disaffected/independent bad. (wikipedia has an excellent essay on racism and race)

    So — here’s what gives — Boyd — until we can TRULY trust each other there won’t be peace on earth.

    Of those 1000 scientologists you know, can you truly trust MOST of them not to write you up when you mention you have misgivings about Miscavige, Ideal Org Buildings, Super Power building,Basics.?

    And if that isn’t a form a racism then … what really is?

    Are we not ONE human race? Any attempt to divide us IS racism.

    Perhaps you might try to broaden your view. It’s important to break down the barriers that divide don’t you think?

    (btw – I’ve never said that most of the scientologists I’ve known in the past and present aren’t well meaning people. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t biased, prejudiced, and yes – racist in the broad sense, frankly living with blinders on and misinformed).


  93. Igotnothingagainstyou

    I don’t see what the problem is on this subject of any Church and Human Rights.

    Scientology itself is an awesome technology. Any Human Rights “violations” are individual failure. And that is a BIG problem. Especially when those individuals are protected in some way by others within the organization. I’m reminded of someone saying something about not pursuing something because it “won’t get him a product”. It’s non-confront. But, to attack the entire organization is just plainly not logical. And that is why the xenophon approach went nowhere.

    I haven’t read much of any of the recent knowledge reports or “stories” of abuse, so I have no ideo who the who’s are. But, it would seem to be a lot more productive for everyone if the whos are known instead of using the broad generality of “The Church”.

  94. Igotnothingagainstyou

    Billy, you think the “entire purpose” of “something” is “something” and then you go on showing your misunderstanding of somethings while seemingly promoting “that something” you seem to be against. 🙂

  95. Theo I don’t think talking about someone in back of DM would alter the doingness involved in handling down stats unless you propose we take on the CIA after DM.

    The result of speculation without all the facts is more speculation getting us no-where. Another effect is apathy about handling DM because it could be believed a removal wouldn’t handle the situation. The reality is if a bunch of people within and outside the SO wake up to what’s going on, top management wouldn’t be allowed to squirrel regardless of secret involvement.
    Anyone in power only has power because of enough consent by church members, and any power in back of management must rely on stealth.

    If things were gotten back on track, there are so many policy and tech scholars, there’s just no way they’d tolerate some hidden influence BS the third time around. Way too many smart people in the SO, after they’ve woken up.

    If the KR line is in, and you can write one and get at least major outnesses handled, all is well. A halfway decent management is an upgrade.

    Starving him out of his squirrel regging by people promoting only paying for the bridge is one doingness. Also refusing paying money for amends for liability conditions for the time being. It’ll force orgs to set themselves up to deliver the tech, a revolutionary idea. Admin/tech personnel ratios were a lot more realistic in the 70’s because now delivery isn’t the main means of income.

    Orgs are artificially propped up to an extent, away from delivery, with IAS money and planetary dissem account money through paying for Ideal orgs and promotion from ILO and Int. Staff get 10% of whatever IAS reges bring in at their orgs reg event. So no quality tech delivery prompting word of mouth for more at the org level (not just Flag)? Then no money.

    The Dane Tops interview is worth reading. He sounded highly speculative about this CMO takeover, sounds like he doesn’t have more info than I have, but comes to a deadset conclusion too easily. He didn’t elaborate on how his version realistically happened besides the LRH distancing in the 80’s. It seems he wanted to say the CIA was mind controlling people remotely or secondarily – which doesn’t jive with Apollo CMOers accounts I’ve read.

    However, one key bit of info is Dane talking about the early 80’s exodus and how they vowed to deliver outside the church then ended up not delivering. Got to avoid that repeat somehow.

    Maybe a conference with an established org board with quotas and I/C’s, with lots of freezoners there would be called for if an independent field is going to be done. If it’s going to get big, it should be handled in a way so it’s not making non-scientologists out of disaffected church members through zero organization. I don’t think creating an independent field necessarily ends horribly, control could be put in. But Indies as an end unto itself is wrong, and I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s an end.

    I’m sure someone has a better proposal than mine, but it would probably involve monitoring production actually happening, and communicating that it’s a flanking activity, not a safe haven to run away from scientology and responsibility.

  96. Thought provoking

    That is great to hear, about your friend! All it takes is one person at a time, honestly looking at their environment and then doing something to change the scene for themselves and others. At some point or another, we all have done this and that is why we are now exterior to the situation, trying to help those who still can’t see.

  97. Igotnothing,
    Are you kidding me? Read the WHOLE WEBSITE!!! The case is open and shut for the who and why’s. I can’t believe this, READ the entire website. Let me know specifically what confusions you have. I really want to hear the confusions, I will clear them up for you as long as I don’t have to write a book.

    Did you see the truth rundown video’s, ALL of them? The ones on downstats?

  98. Igotnothing,
    Maybe I jumped the gun, what are you talking about, the case against Miscavige?

  99. Theo, I had similar experiences regarding comm lines in Ext comm. You point to the policy on the page and read it to them, they veer off onto something else or deny outright that the words give a clear meaning when it’s explicit. And words can’t leave your mouth because time slows down and it’s the twilight zone. So I don’t doubt that it happened.

  100. Your post is just meaningless words strung into a sentence because you’ve provided not substance. Where are my misunderstoods? What specifically are they? Have you heard the Ron’s Journal of 1968? Can you refute the data I’ve presented for you and I assure you, it’s presented as it appears in the tape from Ron.


  101. Theo Sismanides

    Dear Boyd H.

    Yes, it’s a tactic to get you crazy. You know one definition of insanity is MUST REACH CAN’T REACH, MUST WITHDRAW CAN’T WITHDRAW.

    So, when you have reached an Understanding (bla bla policy says so and so), then here comes a “Senior” and tells you it’s NOT that. You cannot withdraw as you have Understood already… so there is where you go insane and then starts all the mud on you and the people around you just see the mud on your face and you try to prove to everybody that you are not an elephant. Twilight zone indeed, man!

    What a shame, if LRH was around we would have a ball with those guys!! Well, we can still do it, LRH or no LRH!!

    I am happy we share some reality on this. I know you and I are NOT elephants Boyd, ha ha.

    ML, Theo

  102. On Mick Wenlocks’ XSO Yahoo Group ( a private list for ex-Sea Org), this Dane Tops interview has been categorized as complete made-up b/s by three persons who were actually in the early Sea Org and served on the Apollo with Ron Hubbard: Mick Wenlock, Jeff Hawkins and Janis Grady, who was Ron’s personal Messenger at that time.

    Do not buy into a bunch of rubbish by a guy who was never there.

    Michael A. Hobson

  103. Regarding my comment on the Dane Tops letter. I’m thinking this is a different situation than the early 80’s:

    Anyone viewing the profiles on this site also see the documentation surrounding why. Everything points towards Miscavige as the stats Who. This type of evidence wasn’t available in the early 80’s. The stats were up and there was no clear evidence of squirreling of this magnitude. This fogginess can be seen in the original Dane Tops letter, where he’s saying he can’t figure out what’s wrong but something’s wrong. Public had no more information than that. Also they thought they could reach the unreachable LRH by withdrawing maybe.

    What would prevent the wrong type of exodus from scientology this time around is the amount of clear evidence. This will make people want to stay and fight back, not leave in a not-is’d or alter-is’d confusion. They’ll stay on board as scientologists because we have a chance to change it.

    So, seeing as this time around it’s different, I support Independent groups still, for going into action and being willing to get into trouble. The most necessary ingredient in all this. People sticking their neck out with their own actions or ideas, though they may be questioned afterwards by me and others, is the only way to learn what to do about this. It’s the theta-mest theory, enturbulation then withdraw and learn with new stable datums.

    “So, if you’re going to play the game at all, play it as a game and play it well. Realize fully that if you go into action you’ll go into trouble, and go ahead and play the game. And don’t worry about whether you’re crazy or the environment is crazy, be perfectly willing to be crazy. In other words, be willing to be crazy as far
    as the environment is concerned. And that way you’ll get something done.”
    L. Ron Hubbard Lecture “Code of a Scientologist.”

  104. I and America have lost friends and family of those who so bravely gave their lives to protect human rights, and not just in this country. They died for you Marty and people like you. My question to you is this: Have you talked to any government official about what you know about Scientology’s human rights violations? Including visa fraud, false imprisonment, human trafficking, child labor and abuse, financial fraud, murder, etc…I could go on.

  105. I won´t argue about anybody´s stories of what happened to them. I read what you guys write and I agree, those are awful crimes and I would not tolerate it for even a second if I came accross them. I respect DM but have questioned some of the true motives behind some of the things that are happening now adays:

    1. The hard sell on books seemed more a campaing to collect money rather than putting source in the hands of the scientologists, Why? Because many times the books would not get delievered and just followed up until the sell was done; or not even a quarter of the intensity was put on studying the basics as selling the basics; Many instances of sellling many packages to the SAME person just to achieve the quota; many library donations and most libraries around the world DO NOT have the books, they are paid allright but not delievered.

    2. Ideal Orgs: I agree with the idea of buying a big enough building in an excellent location, renovating it to make it a brilliant example of Admin Tech and Scn Tech, and then rocketing the stats off the roof with it.

    I strongly oppose using low and mischievious tactics to get people to donate. Using lies, getting people into heavy debts and financial danger, etc.

    I feel pity every time I see an “Ideal Org” that has only a beatiful building and no ideal staff, ideal hatting, ideal training, ideal stats, ideal delivery, ideal Scientology atmosphere, etc. I have more than clear that an Ideal Org is NOT the building, that is just the vehicule, an Ideal Org is the guts, the parts that compose Scientology delivery and results. The building just gives it a roof, thats it.

    3. I oppose the idea that “the world is going to end tomorrow” and so there is no time to organize, no time off, no training/auditing time, not even time to think but just RUN and work like mad, not minding that what you are doing is getting you no where.

    4. I truly hate the fact that staff members are not taken care of for their value. Without thesew guys (SO and Class V) Scientology as we know it, would not exist. And yet, they are sacrificed without a blink on time off, paycheck, dignity, and quality of life in general. They are the real heros and yet some times they seem like the eternal culprits. Everithing is their fault, all the bad things is their fault, always. Low pay, etc. Its always their fault and yet I have seen how most of the time they are not allow to RUn their orgs but just follow orders, but things go bad and they are to blame, always.

    5, The extremely high interest in getting donations for IAS, Books and Ideal orgs. And the almost to the point of “besides the point” attention that is given to delivery stats and org income.

    Ok, that been said, my point: I have never been nowhere near DM, I have seen rogue execs (SO and CL V) and I have always seen how they sooner or later fall out of the picture and get busted.

    I have come accross all the above 5 points and HAVE been able to do something about it to change it and get ethics in and get people back on purpose. I have reported all the above instances with specifics, and without HE&R and never got in trouble. I reported facts and specifics people I had first hand knowledge of.

    So, its hard for me to beleive these stories about DM as the only things I DO know about him first hand (Golden Age of Tech, Golden Age of Knowledge, the general idea of Ideal Orgs, etc) are great ideas but it depends HOW they get implemented and that is the responsability of every single scientologists, not DM.

    Please do not attack me or evaluate me (tagging me as Miscavolite) just because I do not hold anything agaisnt him and in fact admire and respect him. I acknowledge that everything you are saying is POSSIBLE, its just that I have not personally seen it and the gross things I mention in the 5 points above were always perpetrated by specifics people I reported. And those I know. First hand.

    So, as a scientologists I think its pretty irresponsible and at effect to blame all on DM, he is just a man. Scientologists are in the hundreds of thousand. So I would say there are more than a few misapplying admin and scn tech.

    Maybe a time will come when I too get stopped, shot, abused, left with no weapons to fight back and will come back here to tell my story. But in the 15 years I have been in, I am yet to find ANYONE who could enforce off policy on me or my area, I dare them! Honestly I do! I am the fighting type and when I see injustice I take it very personally.

    So, when I read your stories, thinking they are true. I fantasize with being able to be there and fight back or die in the attempt. But, no, sorry, I have fought battles and so far have won every single one and continue unstopped. I love Scientoloy and will keep working so that our church keeps improving and improving untill the day we can weed out all the bad things most people complain about, but by doing something about it and not just blaming it all on DM.

    I hope my writting do not offend anybody, I have no intention to disrepct, discredit anybody at all. its just my humble opinion that could be regarded as unimportant as I am just one in a hundreds of thousands.

    To recapitulate:

    1. I do NOT not-is the out points. They are there.

    2. Confronting evil includes not only seeing it but confronting and shattering it, not running away from it.

    3. LRH left us an assigment in KSW 1. and maybe this is just a big tests to us all. I have every intention to not let him down and take care of the church he created with so much love and dedication.

    If all did the same, none of this would be happening. I believe.

    Good luck to you all, whether you agree with me or not, whether you understand me or not, whether you even care or not, I wish you all success and a happy ending for all of your stories.

  106. Igotnothingagainstyou

    Yes, you jumped the gun and it would seem you didn’t really read my comment.

    Xenophonology: To attack a group because of the misguided actions of a few.

  107. Pedro, you say you’re confronting this but look at the training stats on http://www.friendsoflrh.org/, under the 7 page article. Click on “new topic”. Do you see training happening? You’re not looking deep enough.

    You acknowledge ideal orgs are failing, so why is it a good idea? Wrong why. It IS a flap. Have you read this whole website?

  108. As I said in a later post, I don’t think anyone’s going to be blowing scientology, we’re going to stick around and fight because the facts are so revealing.

  109. Theo Sismanides


    It is good to hear you fight and win. There are those though who fought battles to the end and died in the attempt. So, I don’t know exactly what you mean “winning”. There is no “winning” when many battles on Standard Tech have been lost.

    It’s a shame for every decent (if I can coin up such term) Scientologist for me to be declared for insisting on the application of the Translations HCOBs which were never applied and I together with LRH’s tech and policy were humiliated.

    This is a battle LOST for everyone. And I am sure many people here can tell you about similar battles.

    Everyone of us has his viewpoint and keeps that viewpoint until one decides to change a viewpoint. The viewpoint of the Independents is Independence not Slavery. It IS Slavery to fight for STANDARD TECH and get DECLARED.

    It is a GROSS OUTPOINT and at the other end there is not just a Sherman Tank, it’s something BIGGER.

    My advice, while you are doing what you are doing in the church which is good because we need people like you: See the outpoints, see them for what they are, see the stats of SCN honestly, and mainly see this one stable datum of mine: how come I get declared for insisting and dying in the attempt to put in those Translations HCOBs. All else can be discussed. This one Stable Datum I am sure you agree, cannot.

    Thanks for being around.

  110. Boyd,

    Training stats are down where they are not been worked on, this is not true of my area.

    Ideal Orgs are a great idea IF and only IF the LRH ED on Ideal Org is followed and the actual org is built up and complimented with suitable premises without suppressing the public but instead a volunteered and agreed upon action. I am doing my best at this in my area, specially in building up the org itself and stopping any suppresion on the public (enforcing donations, denying services if no donatios are made, enforcing financial irregularities, etc.) AND are making progress towards our Ideal Org premises (not at the rate expected though.)

    And Theo…

    Yes, its a shame brother. That is why I refuse to leave. I am afraid I am a good influence and I feel that if I leave the mice will have a party!

    I brought a LOT of people INTO Scientology, I now cant just leave because I see these out points. I will stay and fight until the end, they will have to drag me out first!

    When I say winning, I mean I have been able to take down a big shot terminal that was enforcing off policy in my area and I was able to reestablish Scientology atmosphere per HCOPL THE MAGIC OF GOOD MANAGEMENT.

    I am WELL aware that these are small battles compared to the big war or the big picture, but I believe its my duty to continue fighting them.

    And I certainly trust other to do the same. I too often seen people “follow the lead” of off policy or go to the extreme of natter, attacking, and generalizing everything. I rather keep my integrity AND fighting these battles SMARTLY applying every advise from LRH Policy on the subject.

    With this, again, I do not mean to criticize you. I do not know if I had reacted any different HAD I gone through the experiences you and others here went through. I am just saying that I have not and so far I have been able to right wrongs and will keep doing it until we get the ship back together or they drag me out of here.

    I wish you well, I really do.

  111. martyrathbun09

    Pedro, Thanks for this. How many people were in your org’s Academy last time you looked? How many were on auditor training? How many full time staff are at your org? What wrongs have got righted? What crime did the “big shot terminal” commit that brought him down?

  112. Theo Sismanides

    Dear Pedro, thanks for acking my comm and saying it’s a shame. Yes, it’s a shame, but you have to confront it’s more than this: It’s a High Crime (in the fullest meaning of the term) and it’s Missed High Crime. I made up this term as there are no just missed withholds, there are missed high crimes as well.

    This is all we are trying to do outside the church. This is why I left. To not Miss anymore the High Crimes, to not compromise my own reality.

    The Church is just a via anyway for Scientology and it’s a lower harmonic of it, despite all the buildings and anything. Scientology can be better applied and better BE APPLIED in the real world. This is the message of Scientology. Not in Temples as all other religions.

    The fact that you are in is good, the fact that you are here too, is awesome as you share both views.

    Do not respect DM for his high crimes. This is called reasonableness and reasonableness has led us to where we are now. Too many good people expelled from the church and all that YOU are saying about outpoints in the church.

    In any case WE are brothres. You are SANE enough to differentiate between REAL SPs and GOOD WILLED people who did their best under the circumstances. You know how many years I was screaming and shouting in CLO EU about those HCOBs to no avail? Why? Because before I left I wanted to make sure those guys wouldn’t change over Standard Tech. And they didn’t.

    So I have my integrity, too, as you do. The only thing is YOU cannot TALK LOUD in the church. I don’t blame you. What you are doing IS smart. But it’s smarter to be effective. And we are HERE! We say things as they are, not as someone would like to present them.

    Scientology is not making the progress it could (and should) on this Planet. It’s just another religion, philosophy. It’s pathetic to see empty course rooms and people leaving from knowledge. It’s pathetic for people here in Greece to know Scientology just by Tom Cruise and not through some services by a local auditor. There are no local auditors in the field. It’s empty… no action, no theta, no ARC.

    The only theta there is is some “guerillas” who still fight a good fight out here with scars and mud on their faces and can say: My religion and my philosophy is pure. I am not giving it up. The hell with a church which after all is a LOWER HARMONIC of that thing the philosophy encompasses. The knowledge of Scientology and the true spirit of it is not lost here. ARC reigns my dear good friend. And yes we are brothers as you and I are sane enough to know which is the real enemy. All 3rd party in the world will not break our reality.

    I wish you and all Merry Christmas.

  113. Pedro,
    “But in the 15 years I have been in, I am yet to find ANYONE who could enforce off policy on me or my area, I dare them! Honestly I do! I am the fighting type and when I see injustice I take it very personally.”

    So your org isn’t delivering the basics in the academy? The academy is training auditors? You’re org doesn’t hold six int events every year? You deliver the primary rundown? You don’t fundraise for the IAS? You don’t do GAT illegal drills?
    You make it sound like you’ve had no problems handling the entire squirrel framework which DM has overlayed on orgs. Also that DM doesn’t need to be handled because as long as you get to work in your area we’ll clear the planet. Did you see the reference on ideal orgs from friendsoflrh.org? This building purchase plan isn’t “ok”, it’s a fucking urgent flaming flap. Do you disagree?

    We need to handle the guy at the top, correct? Because you’re not just saying you’re doing your thing and you’re glad we’re doing our thing.

    “Training stats are down where they are not been worked on, this is not true of my area.”

    You can’t just worry about your area, the goal is a cleared planet. Training stats are down because of long checksheets and the GAT and basics and prices, and all these programs and events not putting the focus on training. How many auditors get made per week in your area? Where is this place? Should you be doing something about int training stats in non-e?

    You wanted to communicate that the ideal org program is fine for a reason. And you wanted to tell people that you’re not leaving for a reason, and you see no problems with applying HCO PL’s. All that is fine and nobody’s saying everyone should leave staff.

    So what’s the reason? I don’t get it. You acknowledge there are gross outnessess internationally, so what are you trying to say exactly?

    You want us to stop? You leave your overall statement unclear up till now.

  114. Pedro I’m not saying you’re a mole, it’s just you’re pissing me off. If you can’t handle it, just do some TR’s or something, I’m sure you’re tougher than that if you’re a 15 year veteran. Maybe you’re sincere, it doesn’t come across that way to me though. You’re saying you’ve written up outnesses to COB but you didn’t say it got handled. Of course it didn’t get handled, COB IS DOING IT! Can you just calm me down by answering some of my questions and being staightforward about what your intention was in posting this stuff here? I detect you implying that Theo is nattering too. How about clearing that up for me?

  115. Hello Boyd,

    I am sorry I am pissing you off, I understand that because I am not raving mad at DM and said I respect and admired him, could piss you off. I am sorry.

    I have no intention of deterring any of you from doing what you are doing, I for starts, know that that would not be possible and much less through postings here.

    Some of the things that have been discussed in this site is that scientologists within the church cant speak their mind; that most here remain scientologists but not abiding to the current management of the CofS; and you are all freely discussing what you think and observed, etc.

    So, here I am, a scientologists, speaking my mind, thats all. I agree that there are glaring out points, its just that I have a different opinion as to who is causing it and as to how to handle it, thats all. I believe that I also have the right to my own first hand observation and opinion and just because its different than yours, it would not be fair to categorize me as “reasonable” “not sincere”, etc. I am not judging you for what you are doing, so why should you judge me for thinking different and acting different? I am just expressing my opinion as I believe this is not a site exclusive for “detractors” or whatever the heck others have tagged you.

    Now, on answering your questions, I think the above pretty much sums it up. But I will go a bit further and tell you this:

    1. When I say “my area”, I also have in mind planetary clearing but I can not speak for other areas where I AM NOT, I can only speak for the area I am in and are observing. So I cant give an honest opinion about places I have never been to or seen. But sure, I ANY area I am involved I will act the same way and hope others too stop the out points and right wrongs.

    2. I understand that you consider all Int Strategies as squirrel but I have also covered my opinion on that. I believe that HOW you implement these strategies IS what makes them squirrel or not, again, that is MY opinion and you probably will get pissed again. So, I simply ask you to respect my opinion as I respect yours.

    3. Yes, we are focusing in training and auditing in my area (The Bridge.) We have good stats in both respects. Yes, we have the students study LRH´s books as part of their training, its in the checksheets, and no, I see nothing wrong with it. All students are having great success stories from reading LRH´s books (nothing rare about this.)

    What we do not do is:

    – Place anything in importance above the Bridge or helping our public and staff to be well and improving their quality of life.

    – Try to implement any strategy in a way that violates basic purpose as laid out by LRH, or with financial irregularities, or shredding the Org Board, or ARC breaking people by not respecting their reality, etc.

    I know this sounds Alice in Wonderland from where you sit. That is why I am so proud of it, because I know its rare and is quite an accomplishment.

    So, in closing, I will acknowledge you one more thing in your favor… I know, sadly, that what we have here is so distant to what is happening in other areas I KNOW (not heard about, but been there and know first hand.) So, my intention is to stabilize what we have so no one can take it down and then move to another area and do the same, and onto the next, etc. I see no other plan; I do not have a better idea to “take responsibility for all the planet and not just my area”; KRC triangle applies, I can only be truly responsible for the areas I can control. So, when I move to them, I will do the same. For now, or some one there does the same thing or they are doomed to suffer until someone does.

    I hopes this clarifies it for you.


  116. Ok Theo,

    Point taken. I get it that we have some points of agreement and some point of disagreement (I still consider this my church and believe it deserves to be cleaned and saved, I do not consider myself and my group as “Guerrilla” even though the idea sounds exciting, jajaja. )

    But in any event, I think the most important points are precisely the points we agree upon: There are glaring out points not getting handled and some thing effective must be done about it.

    So, please do ALL you can to accomplish this and I will do ALL that I can to accomplish this. Each with our different perspective and plan of action but with the same goal.

    Do well.

  117. Hello Mr. Rathbun,

    We have met, but just once and I do not think you would remember me.

    I cant give you exact figures as it would not be safe; for any one that wants to attack me or attack my area (I hope you understand.)

    -Almost 100 students.
    -About 75 in auditor training.
    -More than 100 FT staffs.
    -Wrongs that got righted: financial irregularities, injustices in application of ethics, misleading or downright lies in regging, etc.
    -Crimes committed by big shot terminal: Financial irregularities, perversion of the Org Board and gross violations in basic organization LRH policy.

    I know I said my admiration for you dropped. Its just that you had a prominent position and could have done so much more than me to rectify the wrongs and I was disappointed that you didn´t. But now, I understand that you say you couldn´t do anything about it from the position you had and so I have desisted on the idea of judging you for it. I will insist on my viewpoint and try to make it, I have not yet met first hand anything that indicates me the Church is corrupted beyond salvation.

    So, I will just go about doing my daily activities and continue to be as I have been and let you, and any body else for that matter, go about doing what you are doing the way you are doing it. No judging.

    Merry Christmas

  118. martyrathbun09

    Merry Xmas. Name the org.

  119. Theo Sismanides

    Dear Pedro, you definitely speak as a Scientologist should do. You are calm, you understand the glaring out points, you just want to handle them on a standard way, that’s all. When I spoke about guerillas I meant us, this group.

    You don’t sound though SO to me. Are you Org staff? You speak as a staff of an Org more like SO. Am I wrong here?

    Well, you see, big difference. Staff of an org and SO. Have in mind that the SO are/were closer to Power (even that corrupt power of DM, still he holds a position of Power) and had a lot of resistance when insisting on Standard Tech. Now you, too, know about those HCOBs on translations for example. Did you take up the issue? Did you decide to study what I said and find out if it’s true and correct what I am saying and thus not just a shame, but a High Crime and report it? Obviously not. It’s not your area of responsibility maybe, yet.

    You definitely know about abortions in the SO, and other things that are not LRH. So though there should be no different plan but ONE plan, that of Standard Tech, you will find out under the current mgmt that whenever you attempt to go against one of its squirrel strategies head on, you will fall. In mine and other people’s cases here, we chose to die in the attempt, whereas you chose to keep going in order to win. Didn’t say your last word yet, have a lot to say yet, which is good.

    But you definitely didn’t win those bigger battles. If you are in some distant scientology island (org) where nobody bothers you too much, do not think that when you go to the “Mecca” you will be accepted as a hero.

    So you have to fight a different kind of war, here. It’s a war better fought in alliance with guerillas, too, (they are your resources, you want to include not exclude in this war, and in Scientology in general and in any big game the leader if he was big, he would include not exclude) and if you find it exciting you can be secretively recruited and be part of the Guerrila team.

    Scientology is nothing without excitement. So you can have both.

    In any case there must be some intelligence into this war. I am watching some World War II documentaries and I am getting informed about how the British (the Polish and the Frence being the first to make some inroad into this) had managed to decodify the German secret communication code named ENIGMA. The Germans throughout the war never had any idea about it.

    This is a war Pedro. It’s not just something nice. We have been kept prisoners of that war INSIDE OUR OWN CAMP!!! WAS IST DAS? To sound a bit like Snow White? It’s betrayal big time. It’s reverse management.

    So be even smarter now and keep establishing some lines that will help you and Scientology in the near future. It all depends on US, one strategy, one plan: Standard Tech. You can start whispering it from within and we can scream loud from the ouside.

    Merry Christmas

  120. Sorry, cant do that. And you know it.

  121. Pedro,
    Why not? You are defending your boys here.

  122. Pedro I want to keep going with this.

    So you’re in an org with 75 auditors in training huh? I’m not sure that org exists on this planet, much less so many of them that you’d be safely hidden from OSA detectives because your org is just one of many.

    And why would OSA come after you? You said you respect and admire DM and you covertly claim many times that we’re nattering while you’re “doing something about it” basically.
    You also say “you guys help in your way and I’ll help in mine”. What do you mean? If we’re doing the wrong thing aren’t we your enemy and NOT helping? Doesn’t add up.

    This is straight out of the new OSA playbook. Grant that some things are bad (but no more-so than complaining about them would be seen as natter because it’s small stuff that can be “easily fixed”), then for NO REASON AT ALL, giving no reasoning or specifics, say that you like DM, and you see no evidence that should sway you otherwise.

    Then at the end of one of your posts you say “no judging”, when your posts are filled with what could be seen as subtle slights at this movement. That’s the OSA playbook right now. Don’t come right out and say anything. Fill your argument with half thoughts and non-thoughts and subtly imply that attacking DM is natter and stems from overts. Why don’t you DIRECTLY take on points from friendsoflrh.org, or the 31 factors, or the 75 million dollar building.

    It seems that you’ve made up your mind to attack because any sane scientologist going through doubt would at least hold their tongue while studying all this and getting more data.

    So prove me wrong that you’re not an OSA spy.

    One of the most oddball points you made is you’re going to “move on to the next area” and handle things locally and clear the planet that way. I don’t know why you’d “move on”, it sounds kind of weird. As in you think you’re going to clear the whole city and county soon and you’ll be forced to move on?

    Doesn’t logic FORCE you to handle the guy starting the fires all over instead of putting out his fires one by one and persuading others to not handle the firestarter?

    It just doesn’t make any sense. Get out of the OSA 1.1 and come up to at least 1.5. You are OSA and you are outed, time for a new username and IP address. You imply that I’m raging pissed off because of overts at the beginning of your last comm. Could it be that I’m mad because you’re defending a stat crasher? OSA, that’s not your hat! LRH never gave you that hat! You are to defend the church from ENEMIES, outside and from within if necessary! So stop being a punk!

    You half-consider so much BS in your post, we’ve got to continue. It’s too much for one post. A no answer and I’ll post this in the most recent article so everyone sees the tactics.

  123. No Mosey, I am not defending anybody. Reread my postings and you will see.

    I am just saying that my area has not gone so far off and that we are succeeding at keeping the craziness out of it. Its not 100 % standard and we are working on it, but its not the fault of some Senior Exec but the staff of the org.

    I dont want to expose my area as I was just trying to express my feelings, I am not trying to convince anybody that their are wrong, I am not trying to show off, I am not trying to defend the CofS. I am simply communicating that I am sorry for the experiences that some of you have gone through, that I will stay in my church as so far I have not experienced such things as some of you (getting beat up, etc.) and I feel that the gross out points I do see must get handled, thats all.

    And telling you my area would expose it to attacks that are unnecessary and not our game. We already have enough in our plate, nothing else to it.

    If anybody wants to believe me, fine; if no one believes it, thats fine too. I am not trying to gain anybody´s trust here either.

    So, anyways. I wish you all a better life and a happy ending for this general story. I will be working on the same goal (ridding the CofS of major out points) but I will remain inside and try to handle it. Just remember that not everybody inside is a “robot” “stupid dead in their head”, etc. Its just that some of us decided to fight the battle from within.


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