CNN AC 360 – Part III

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/31/scientology.violence/index.html?hpt=Mid

Is everyone but us afraid of David Miscavige?  My only other comment:

257 responses to “CNN AC 360 – Part III

  1. I think this was the best one out of all of them. Anderson finally asked very logical questions that none of them could really answer. Why wasn’t the police called if aggravated assault was taking place? Logically he put it together because DM was the real perpetrator and why would you call the police on someone else if you would be found out too?

    Also – Monique YingLing needs to get some PR presence about herself. She was been very disinterested all three nights, slouching in her chair, and then tonight looks a bit battered and worn. I guess defended an SP takes a big toll on somebody!

  2. Great Tom Petty song:

    Well I won’t back down, no I won’t back down
    You could stand me up at the gates of hell
    But I won’t back down

    Gonna stand my ground, won’t be turned around
    And I’ll keep this world from draggin’ me down
    Gonna stand my ground and I won’t back down

    [Chorus:]
    Hey baby, there ain’t no easy way out
    Hey I will stand my ground
    And I won’t back down

    Well I know what’s right, I got just one life
    In a world that keeps on pushin’ me around
    But I’ll stand my ground and I won’t back down

    Hey baby there ain’t no easy way out
    Hey I will stand my ground
    And I won’t back down
    No, I won’t back down

    AC finally gets closer as to his question of “who’s lying? ” with the reporting to law enforcement of assault. Pretty subtle, but he does get to the point that all those 4- Norman, Guillaume, Monique and the famous Tommy are lying!

    Now the question is – will DM come out of hiding now that his lackey’s have messed it up?

  3. War and Peace

    Marty ~~~

    Their strategy has backfired. The mutual ruds of hiding assault and battery from law enforcement points to top of the org board.
    Who is permitting all this to happen ? He called the assaults a felony in black and white.

    Anderson believes you.
    You were very credible.
    Note how he said that the more likely reason Law Enforcement was not called was the beatings were done by the head of the church
    And in spite of the latest legal letters form CofS the day before asking CNN to cease saying DM was invited and would not come on the
    show, they stuck it to DM again, pointing out YET again, he was invited to appear for the record.
    ################
    Guillame and Norman Starkey are not good PRs. It is too bad that Heber has been in lockdown for the last 5 1/2 years.
    He is not even being allowed to salvage the PR mess.
    I wonder what the situation is with Heber Jentzsch in obvious lock down at INT base.
    and does Monique Yingling condone this ?

  4. My observations tonight were

    1) The four “top officials” representing Scientology had no dignity and no ethics presence. They interrupted one another and Anerson Cooper’s comm.

    More relevant: they had no cogent, lucid, believable answers. Their alibis were not even consistent (conflicting data between them)

    2) The line that “Marty Did It” is absurd and TIRED. What’s the logic there? — just because any person has committed a wrong, we can’t demand better of ourselves and the environment?

    That thinking rules out any demand of change because there is not a person alive who hasn’t committed transgressions against personal and social codes of conduct. does that mean we’re not allowed to whistleblow? ON THE CONTRARY!

    I’ve had the “You did that too” run on me in one way or another. My reply: Well, I don’t anymore, never should have, and that doesn’t excuse it or give anyone else an excuse.

    3) Tommy Davis only had 1 very robotic, obviously rehearsed answer tonight: “You don’t get it. Here’s the thing, once we found out we removed him.” He repeated that to every question, at least five times. Three words: FLUNK for BULLSHIT and out TR4 (capably handling originations in a communication cycle) (and lying) #BIG FAIL Tommy Davis

    4) The Management of the Corporate business that has hijacked Scientology has become so self-contained, it does not even realize how utterly ludicrous their alibis and smear tactics are.

    I remember my very first this lifetime lie. I was pretty impressed at the time with how my parents kept asking questions while I squirmed. In retrospect, I was pretty damn obvious! LOL The “Church” officials reminded me of myself at 3 years old — clueless and CAUGHT IN A LIE. Except this isn’t about wearing Sunday shoes to roll down a gravel hill. we’re talking trangressions and betrayals against humanity.

  5. Wow,

    Guilleme looked like he was about to spit up pea soup and do the head spinning thing. Man, I just cannot believe that an executive with his experience can become so unglued about something, and act that way if it was just a matter of Marty and the rest being liars.

    I am starting to really, really see the stress these execs are under. They are way uptight. By comparison, Marty, Tom, Amy and company are quite composed and lucid.

    Still in shock….

    Centurion

  6. I see a trend:

    Tom Cruise on Matt Lauer: “No Matt. You don’t understand. I do.”

    Guillaume Leserve to Anderson Cooper: “You don’t understand.”

    Tommy Davis: You don’t get it. here’s the thing.

  7. Marty my hat is off to you. To think that the people up on that stage were even in a position to run this so called church is amazing. They would be laughed out of any corporation. They know no truth. they have no honor.

    Best always, Carol

  8. Well Marty I don’t think Anderson Cooper is intimidated. Love that last zinger he through in that it must have been from the Top of the Church. Boy, Guillueme looked like a beaten down frantic frightened child. I am sure Miscavige must have told him he would beat him or something worse if he screwed up.

  9. Question: who is that heavy lawyer (dang she looked like a professional boxer) with Tommy Davis? he used to make appearances alone. He looked very massy tonight, I wondered if maybe the lawyer was assigned to keep him in line since he has obviously not “handled” this fire. She interrupted him and answered for him on at least one occasion.

    I cringe to think of the people being blamed right now.

    And these people tonight on Anderson Cooper are the best the “Church of David Miscavige We’ll Sell You Back Your Soul” has? massy, out comm, sinister, sullen, antagonistic, pasty faced, sad people?

  10. I think tonight, Anderson was harder on Marty (and Mike) than previous nights, and also gave Davis, Yingling and Miscavige more room to explain their side.

    BUT, what was brilliant, was how Anderson brought it around full circle — and pointed out the obvious illogic. Once he let Davis and Yingling make their case, he accurately and logically asked (paraphrased): “But why weren’t any charges brought? Marty beating people seemed to be acceptable behavior in the Church … if that is really the truth. Unless the opposite is true , and it was the Head of the Church who was doing these beatings, in which case it would make sense that no charge would be filed or no one would come forward.”

    Anderson then pointed out how ludicrous the idea of “dealing with beatings as an internal matter” is, which was how Davis and Yingling were trying to squirm out of it.

    Overall, I’d say the score is:

    Independents: 3
    CofMiscavology: 0

    Tonight was tough on you Marty, but you handled it well.

    p.s. Guillaume Leserve looks gaunt, malnourished, tired … and beaten.

  11. Anderson was correct at the outset of tonight’s piece….the public has a right to know, and somebody is lying. I laughed along with Marty at the notion that he himself started the violence. If that were true, and if Miscavige had clean hands, one phone call to DM from a witness and Marty would’ve been on a one-way ticket to the RPF instantly, if not declared, tried and jailed. It’s tough to say how this series will affect the non-scientology public, politicians, the authorities, etc. But, if anything, it is leading to more and more and more exposure. It’s globally viral on the net. Some of the media exposure will be kick-ass and some, a bit dull, to be sure. But now’s the time to turn it up and not back down. Millions more people around the world now know that something is very wrong at the top of Scientology. There would be almost no way to make it real or interesting to the general public that there are far worse concerns than physical violence. But I have a postulate going that one day in the not too distant future, DM will be featured on the show American Greed, regarding his massive IAS Ponzi scheme! 🙂

  12. Watching Eyes

    By he Dwarf’s lieutenants blaming Marty for violence they’ve admitted there’s been violence at Int. CNN has figured this out. I seriously doubt this was the outcome the C of M was hoping for. They’ve boxed themselves right into a corner.

    I’m waiting for the interview where someone, Linson or Starky or whoever, looks deep under their respective rocks, finds a morsel of integrity, stands up in the interview and says, “Enough already! It’s all true and I’m going to tell you about it right now”. Wouldn’t you just die. You know the Dwarf is afraid of just that scenario. If there was ever anyone living in fear, it’s DM. The dude’s in hiding, for pete’s sake. He is one worried boy.

  13. DM’s poorly conceived cover-up is falling apart. As cogently pointed out; ‘both sides’ agree, physical violence occurred. That is a violation of Scientology policy and the law of the land.

    Why was it allowed to occur? Anderson Cooper says it ‘makes sense’ if it was DM that was perpetrating it since then, nobody would want to report it.

    What the mind boggles on is that none of the Church of Mest-cant/must-havige representatives have any ability to see the blatant illogic in their shore story.

    The story/cover-up is so full of holes you could drive DM’s armored vehicle through them. Too bad the vehicle itself offers no protection from this presentation BY HIS VERY OWN PEOPLE.

    Arrrggghhh… this is almost as painful to watch as the beatings.

  14. P.S.
    Painful as in it’s a brutal assault on rationality. Again, more violence from DM and his ilk.

  15. Mark Fisher

    They were called on the carpet by Anderson Cooper who asked intelligent and logical questions and Norman, Guillaume, Tommy and the “Creepy Shadow” Lawyer could not answer with logical answers.

    They just repeated the mantra over and over that DM did not know these things were going on for years and when he found out, Marty and the others were removed.

    Aside from the fact that we know they are lying, Mike Rinder wasn’t removed for beating up anyone. Based on their time line, he was still the Spokesman for Scientology after his alleged attacks on juniors until the day he left.

    Too bad there are not rebuttal interviews with Marty based what the wives and others are saying.

    Someone rightly pointed out that it is in fact against Church policy and is a suppressive act to make reports to the police or authorities against another Scientologist. It is written right in their own policy.

    Again, for us that know what went on, these stories are not new, but they have a wide reaching effect over 5 nights broadcast all over the world to millions and millions of people. CNN has wide international reach and DM is losing credibility each and every day.

  16. becomingAware

    And so did ED Int. There was a lack of presence. It was more like a school yard response. Marty had his TR’s in and communicated.

  17. I think it’s not fear of Miscavige, it’s fear of loosing Scientology. In the ethics book “Mutiny” is forbidden. So how can they take the place back or form any ousting? Then, there is the suppressive act listed under mutiny forbidding outside justice: : “Delivering up the person of a Scientologist without justifiable defense or lawful protest to the demands of civil or criminal law.”
    Anderson and whole world don’t know that these staff are forbidden to file a charge. It also says in the ethics book a FELONY is a suppressive act, and according to Anderson, what Miscavige is accused of is a felony. The staff are really at a loss for a solution away from these things and Miscavige uses these points to dominate and suppress. Hubbard never suggested to anyone to permit themselves to be suppressed. But when I was on staff all of the PTS SP data had been deleted from the basic Sea Org training line up. Anyway, I think Anderson knows the truth, and so does anyone watching. The worst indicator of all is Miscavige is in hiding, not Marty. Marty is reaching, David is withdrawing, that communicates to everyone on some level. Marty, you are a big loud being being there and communicating! Obviously unsuppressable!

  18. Mark Fisher

    Just saw this article on line. Another example of their “unprecedented expansion” with their Idle Orgs Program. Selling a building they paid cash for in downtown Portland for less than what they paid for it and never having used it.

    http://djcoregon.com/news/2010/03/31/church-of-scientology-selling-stevens-building-in-portland/

  19. Hello Marty and everyone, Something just seems not right about this CNN interviews… Are both parties being played and duped by CNN (media) ? I feel this is turning into a masquerade… and a third party… LRH never played into the hands of the Media, he refused to do it. The only interview he gave was “Introduction to Scientology” and this was a private interview, you guys know that. What would be THE good reason LRH did not want to play that game? I believe there are LRH policies about that or Advices, I know I read few of them but cannot remember the tittles. As far as I remember it had to do with the real agenda of the Medias which for sure it is not to help either parties or to figure out who is right or who is wrong. The question I may put on the table for either parties is “What would LRH DO?”

  20. When you figure the total loss with commissions, etc, it will be close to one million$. Further extravagances. DM is very hands on and bypasses heavily on these cycles. He spent $40,000,000 on the Ft. Harrison renos; I am sure those beans will be recovered in due time. Not.

  21. connected,
    LRH would declare David Miscavige suppressive and remove him from post. He’s not here right now, so we’re working on it. Going along pretty good too. As to the media, well, there’s the PR Series which applies.

    I’ll put a question on the table for you: what are you doing about the SP David Miscavige?

  22. Go Anderson. Imagine that — asking a logical question. Blew apart the Church’s facade.
    Monique looked as tired and worn out as all the ex’s — even while being paid the big bucks. Wouldn’t surprise me if she got fired after tonight’s performance.
    Bravo Anderson!!! The best by far!

  23. bA

    I don’t think Guillaume Leserve has been ED Int for a number of years now. His title at events in the past few years when he’s been allowed out only states Int Management and not ED Int.

  24. The best so far.

    Anderson has asked THE right questions. Why no police report? He called it — a felony.

    Major kudos to Marty and the others. You are brave souls indeed. Thanks for pointing the way.

    WH

  25. Mark and The Oracle,
    I’m going to wear the Minister of Qual hat here on a point. It is NOT a suppressive act to report a crime to the authorities.

    The latest version of the quoted High Crime is as in The Oracle’s posting. Read that and it says ‘justifiable defense or lawful protest’. How can one justify this sort of thing or lawfully protest it?

    The point is there is NO justifiable defense or lawful protest against mayhem, assault, kidnapping or any of the various issues revealed here. The weakest of ‘defense’ is from Monique Yingling ‘it was handled internally’, which it wasn’t for one and two, any Scientologist has the right to report these types of crimes according to Scientology policy as well as their duties as citizens and members of the dynamics of the society and mankind. In fact, that responsibility is exactly what this whole show is about; beings taking responsibility for the culture they live in so this type of suppressive, offensive, brutality is dealt with.

    There is NO LRH policy against that.

  26. Man it’s embarrasing to watch Tommy do his thing. It really is. You know, much has been said about DM spending lots of money to defend attack against himself and ignoring attacks on LRH. This whole thing to me speaks to that. When the he’ll is the last time that the world got to see Norman Starkey and Guillome Leserve. EVER???

    When the first round of media hit on this in the SP Times I thought for sure that it was going to spread like wildfire to the other media. It didn’t. Not at all. But that didn’t keep the most embarrasing freedom mag I’ve ever seen rehash the whole thing ad nauseum to NON SCIENTOLOGISTS. It was so embarrasing. But why didn’t it catch on? Because in a world of child-molesting priests, senators with love childeren, and 30 billion dollar embezzelers, no one gives a damn about a slap happy church leader. The church could just ignore it and it would go away. The only ones who understand how big of a deal this is to scientologists is scientologists. They are the ones who care. The Church COULD handle this in a smart way and it would all be relatively fine. But no. Now it’s all reactive. Tommy can’t even give an honest answer to an easy question because he’s so wrapped up in lies. He could have said no one pressed charges because it is church policy to handle all such matters internally and not involve the courts. That is our policy. We have our own justice system set up in the SO the same way MPs handle all miktary related issues bsame concept. He couldn’t even stop repeating his line “once DM found out, Marty was removed.

    A man with as much ethics presence with the Scn public as Guillome Leserve couldn’t keep his TRs in the second Anderson interrupted. Guillome looked like he’d been smacked! It was embarrasing!

    Tommy reads lines from affadavits like they are scripture! I’m waiting for him to look right into the camera and say “See! That’s proof! It says it right here!!!”

    Anderson might point out that it’s not worth DMs time to speak with Anderson, but it’s worth the time of SIX senior execs instead! Hilarious!

  27. Yes. One thing that really brought it home was when Anderson Cooper brought up, “If my boss started beating on me around here…”

    It drove the point so HOME about how insidiously it creeps in and that *any* kind of physical abuse, invalidation, harassment, and violence — emotional, spiritual or physical — is simply not acceptable.

    Imagine walking into Google, or Disney Studios, or you local supermarket and seeing someone invoking any kind of abuse on juniors.

    Ludicrous, right?

    The reasonableness about violence that develops insidiously from dealings within the S$cio Corporation (whether its at the hands of a reg, or clueless brutal Ethics Officer, or whatever) is a measure that Scientology has been derailed and taken FAR OFF PURPOSE, the opposite purpose, in fact, of its very heart.

    It is shocking as it really comes into crystal clear focus. Both personally, and the ramifications of the gross travesty against the shared ideal visions and purpose for the society.

  28. Giullaume Lesevre, what an unbelievable disappointment. I knew the guy (dutch, I don’t remember his name) who recruited Guillaume and his wife, Vanella to the SO. He told about what incredible shining lights they were, how bright, spiritual, filled with hope and great expectations. Guillaume became CO EU after having been a cook first and then boomed the Vienna org on a garrison mission. He was not trained but sat by himself at nights studying policy to figure out what to do. I don’t know the exact stats but the 5 years Guillaume was CO EU I think he doubled the amount of orgs in EU, probably 10xed the stats. During that period at least 5 significant buildings were bought in Copenhagen (bear in mind – without any contributions from publics). To attend any meeting with him was inspiring, his mind was always creating, creating, creating.

    What an unbelievable contrast to the robotic loon Guillaume that was on AC tonight . What an unbelievable disappointment.

  29. Kathy Braceland

    Anderson Cooper rocks! Tonight was a “10!”

    I’m breaking open the bubbly….

  30. Virgil Samms

    You forget – DM runs everything. He calls all of the shots. And he is going to call the shots in this, the movie called “The big final battle of his life.” He is the one who gets his orders carried out, or else.

    Everything that comes out of TDs mouth is choreographed by DM. That’s why TD sounds so stupid. DM ordered Jennifer to attack Anderson at the first chance, knowing how good Jennifer is at belittling people. That was stupid because he figured her arrogance and “ethics presence” would cave AC in. But it backfired because they don’t understand they were in the enemy camp on tbe enemies stage with only the enemies audience.

    DM orders OSA to send a letter to AC advising AC not to bring up DM refusing coming on the show, because it is a blatent lie, then AC shows TD shooting himself and DM in the foot because DM was too stupid and too arrogant to ask TD if hesaid anything like that before. Oops there it was on tape. Bang! Another boobytrap.

    Don’t you see? All of this missteps are from the maestro himself. They all have his stupid trademark on them right down to the “every square inch” crazy canned responses of the exes.

    If the exes were just allowed to say what they needed to say, if Norman and Guillume were allowed to say what they needed to say, it would be a contest.

    So you see folks, DM is accelerating his demise on national TV. He boobytraps his own troops and his own assaults. He is taking a dive in the 5th round!

    You see, this is all a movie to DM in which he stars. He wrote thescreenplay and because it is his movie and because he has hundreds of millions of dollars, he can make the movie end like he wants it. Can’t he? He can say all of the corny lines he wants to because this is his movie and it is going to end the way he wants it. Right?

  31. Every time Tommy Davis et. al. can’t directly respond to a question (like “why didn’t anyone call the police”) he starts off with “Here’s the thing…” and repeats whatever stupid line he has been told to stick with. Here’s the thing? Who the hell else ever says that on national tv?

  32. I have to remark on the irony of the lead-in story tonight being about bullying.

    Sigh. Anderson, was that a coincidence, or did you arrange that combination of stories on purpose? And last night’s lead-in about the scandal with the Pope – coincidence? If tomorrow’s lead in is about a televangelist ponzi scheme, I’m going to get suspicious…

    Tonight’s lead-in story contained reports of children being bullied so badly at school that they have killed themselves – Cooper demands to know, how does this happen?

    Well, take a look at the next story, the one on violence in the church of scientology, and see what happens to people who speak out against bullies when those bullies are grown up and have manipulated their way into positions of power.

    If the first story is a morality play about the importance of standing up to bullies, the story on the church that followed shows the fear and extreme care with which that same maneuver must be executed by an individual handling the same problem in the adult world.

    Watching the report on the church tonight, I started to despair that Marty was not shown in what I thought was the proper light. Cooper seemed to be giving too much of the wrong kind of attention to Marty’s admitted transgressions, not enough attention to the conflicting lies coming out of the mouths of the church’s line-up. When he started questioning the church’s gang about why Marty’s assaults, if illegal and objectionable and worthy of excommunication, had not been reported, I thought for sure he’d abandoned the path to the truth.

    I hadn’t realized that he had already spotted the illogic of the church’s allegations, because I hadn’t spotted it.

    The only way that it makes sense that NOBODY EVER reported the assaults that the church says went on for years, is if they were being committed by Miscavige.

    Bullseye!

  33. The takeaway for me tonight was (1) CNN showed that no matter what you ask nor how many times you ask it, the Church representatives just regurgitate the fixed party line and as such demonstrate themselves as the epitome of unable to think for themselves. They’re out of comm and unreal 100% of the time. (2) Before and after the interviews, the message they keep repeating is “church” and “violence.” (3) CNN exposed the flaws in the Church’s attack lines (blaming the whistle blowers) by asking in all those 4 years how is it possible Miscavige didn’t know? and shooting holes in the idea of “handle it internally.” One point that CNN did not make was that COB didn’t “get rid” of Marty. Marty quit.

  34. I think that is a part of a script on theirs part from “putting Ethics in on the Planet!”

    Of course, Anderson doesn’t understand. In order to understand, he has to read and re-read with a good dictionary Ethics book and KSW #1 and get that demo’ed and clay demo’ed and starrate checked out, and checked on an E-Meter.
    And – very likely – even after having done all that he wouldn’t understand all the significance attached to it.
    So, to understand it fully, he would have to do some more services – just to raise his awareness level to those in front of him who “DO UNDERSTAND!”.

    LOL 😉

  35. I’d like to share something that is off topic but it really is ON the ultimate topic for most of us here, and that is Scientology.

    I’m not going to clarify “real” Scientology, because there is no other kind.

    The reason I’m sharing it is not to get kudos (the results were kudos enough) — rather, to GIVE and SHARE kudos with Marty Rathbun.

    Place: Paul McCartney concert

    Situation: I was celebrating with some friends and heard a woman speaking loudly, misemotional, turning on a small group next to her. She loudly accusing them of laughing at her. The person she was with started to move her away, and she began crying out in elevated volume and tone, “Let go of my pants.”

    Needless to say, a noisy scene and disruption was escalating. In moments I assessed the situation. She looked to have what’s called “special needs” — but there was a thetan there, right?:)

    I quietly stepped over to her and in less than a minute she was calmed down, grief handled, settled down. She walked away effusively thanking me and telling me I was wonderful, an angel and this and that.

    No less than 5 people immediately circled (swamped!) me and asked “What did you DO?” “What are you? “Did you study psychology?”

    All I did was apply basics understanding … She was stuck in an incident of ridicule. I know about Anchor points…and that hers had been snapped in on her (Ridicule). I knew she needed to be heard and acknowledged, sincerely, with understanding. I knew she felt humiliated. I knew she needed to be extroverted, and to place anchor points out again. That is all I did. I saw her. I cared. I communicated.

    THAT is Scientology. It is not the Hocus Pocus smoke&mirrors gimme your money i am the Pontificatus Malorkus who will now sprinkle your from the holy scriptures (if you don’t piss me off) and then you will be free.

    No. It’s more like a screwdriver. Or a hammer. Or a wrench. Or a saw. A TOOL. *No Strings*

    So I am a shining example of…naturally my own work on myself over years and training and auditing and desire for truth but for this discussion… from my auditing with Marty. Thanks to Marty, I GOT what *LRH INTENDED ME TO HAVE* … mega more free theta.

    I am a walking product. and I am not exaggerating my account. if anything, I’m minimizing it because it was that dramatic and intense! THAT is Scientology.

    If I had an Org, I would said check out your local org. But I stopped doing that when I could not trust my orgs to deliver Scientology. Sending people to an Org is like sending them to be fleeced and slaughtered — sure they’ll get a few sprinkle wins but not the *stuff of life* which is purely Scientology.

    If not for Marty, my circle of Life would not be benefiting from the decontagion of Theta 😉 I was doing great but in many ways parked, outr of my sense of honor, and it would’ve been fine for the current so-called Church to waste my Life. as it is fine for them to waste and trash so many lives.

    Well, that is *not okay* with me. It is time to DELIVER. It is time to have fun, enjoy, expand, uplift and have the joy and wonder that LRH bequeathed to us.

    Marty Rathbun, thank you. You are a fantastic auditor. I am so very fortunate that you are my friend and a friend to the tech and to LRH and to PEOPLE of our beautiful Earth.

  36. Marty, you did great tonight, as usual. Fact, fact, pure fact. That was awesome.

    I don’t care if DM’s minions got more air time, because Anderson successfully made it very clear to the world watching that it makes more sense that the beating was actually done directly by David Miscavige “leader” therefore the police was not involved.

    That is what the actual message was. Great job Anderson!!!!

  37. And Hey, those Xwives are actually over there married to DM. I think that is obvious. But you can see them and they are alive. Where is DM’s Xwife? And why wasn’t she part of the Xwives club? There’s an interesting thought. I want to see DM’s xwife. I want to know what she is up to these days. Has anyone seen or heard of Shelly? I thought someone filed a missing persons report on her? Hasn’t she vanished?

  38. WOW!
    Another proof of illogic on the part of CoDM !

  39. Well, uh, most of Guilleme’s recent experience has been in a hole . . .

  40. connected

    I would give you advice:
    lurk more

  41. ” . . . Guillaume Leserve looks gaunt, malnourished, tired … and beaten.”

    Uh, kind of like someone in a concentration camp?

  42. Fellow Traveller

    News Flash
    Church of Scientology, reportedly the most litigious church, possibly the most litigious corporate entity, today set new standards. They have filed a lawsuit attacking AC360 and CNN for disclosing the truth.

    In other news, the church has placed an unprecedented number of requests for transcriptionists to assist in their legal department. When asked about this, Church spokesperson Tommy Davis replied the exploding church was undergoing a renaissance of CYA. He was not clear whether that stood for cover your arse or curses ye apostates.

  43. P.S. The point I’m making is that DM’s twisted universe perpetrated at Int had and has those there thinking there is no legal recourse for this shit and since DM is the Vicar of Ron it would be tantamount to destruction of the entire subject to exercise one’s right, per the law and per LRH policy, to report crimes against other beings to both HCO and with no results, no justifiable defense or lawful protest, to the demands of civil and criminal law.

  44. Excuse me while I extract myself from an hour of glee (insouciance?). I’ve been glued to the previous thread and got into a really silly mood reading the posts — must be charge blowing off!

    I had such a good time laughing about the nightly full body scans going on at the Int base, and the new compulsory “Every Square Inch” checksheet, that I just now saw there was a new thread. And, oh boy, last thing before I checked in over here, Jim Logan was painting a picture of the chick who nailed herself to a 2 x 4 as the best source of entertainment on the Int RPF. Oh my, it’s still funny, definitely must be charge blowing off!

    My favorite moment in Part 3 was when Anderson said something like, “If my boss was beating me up, it would be pretty bizarre for Time Warner to say, ‘we’ll handle it internally.'”

    Geez, even that’s funny. Surely the unexpected line-charging must mean that the nightmare will soon be coming to an end (and thus we can afford not to take it so seriously). 🙂

  45. Oh, and by the way, Marty, you’re definitely a hero for getting off overts on national TV. Man, that takes courage! When it’s you against the madman who never did anything wrong in his life – it’s no contest. 🙂

  46. War and Peace

    Veritas ~~

    Sitting by Tommy Davis is
    Monique Yingling, David Miscavige’s personal lawyer who is paid $1 million to $2 million a year.

    Here is Marty’s earlier blog on her
    https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/tag/monique-yingling/

    Also more info on her here ~~ (you could wonder what a TAX attorney is doing defending assault AND battery.)
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_thread/thread/9e5c12392ba0ffc9?pli=1

  47. p.s. btw the people who crowded around and rushed around me eagerly asking my what I did, how I did that, etc. were strangers, bystanders who witnessed it and had been part of and also watching the scene escalate for ten minutes.

  48. Hubbard did play into the hands of the media because he did not control them. He said, “Take the motion that comes in and use it to win.” He could have done that with the media. He could have used them to futher his purposes. He also had issues with the I.R.S., but the I.R.S. does not make tax laws, congress does. Targeting revenue collectors was not the source and wrong target. He also left the CofS in a way that it exists as it does now. This is the year 2010 and a lot of what Hubbard wrote was in a different world than the one we live in today half a century later. Marty has been able to use the press and the media to handle a bad situation and get the Church back into communication with the world. If he was able to do something Hubbard wasn’t able to do, well, he has.

  49. Because if DM has the idea of using Xwives as ammunition,…well……he must have some idea about how dangerous that could be. He had Mary Sue monitored around the clock. He’s got some small pestering sore there and the universe may find it and probe at it until it becomes a festering wound. …The nature of the beast. Anyway, Tommy has been enlightened by Anderson Cooper that DM has comitted felony crimes. Maybe Tommy will have some thoughts about that as the night goes on.

  50. Guillaume Leserve is toast. Hopefully he has the sense to make a run for it before he has to “face the music” at Int. Starkey joining in Leserve’s hysterics didn’t help matters, either.

    Anybody else notice how tense Tommy Davis’s jaw was, while Leserve was talking? Oh my goodness.

    Outstanding piece tonight… Leserve’s expression when AC mentioned that Rathbun’s office was next to his was LAUGH OUT LOUD material. Had to rewind and re-watch that reaction at least 10 times, lol! Poor guy gives new meaning to the expression “hot mess”.

  51. AlexMetheny

    Bravo Anderson Cooper!!

    He asked hard hitting questions and stumped the robots paraded out to handle the media.

    I believe that CNN has to be careful not to look biased towards Marty and the others. So tonight they didn’t give Marty much rebuttal time. BUT..as I said, AC hammered them with his own awesome string pull.

    I suspect that they will give more air time to Marty and the good guys tomorrow night. Regardless, great inroads are being made, the gallows are being built and DM is standing on the hill watching them build it.

    Alex

  52. Connected,
    CNN isn’t duping anybody. Anderson, while he very good, is a reporter. It’s what he is and what he does. He’s sharp and he stated from the outset that he is going to let the public decide. So he’s keeping it interesting and he knows exactly what he’s doing.
    The pathetic part for the C of M people is their arrogance. They dig themselves further in because they think they are so goddamn smart. They are dealing with a professional who has his TRs in. He’s not missing a beat and they are paying for it. It’s embarrassing. Tommy-absolutely-not Davis needs to resign from the human race – he’s an embarrassment to mankind.

  53. What would LRH think of all this?
    From HCO PL 11 May 1971 issue II
    PR series 7
    Protest PR
    “Outright protest PR based on facts is a legitimate method of attempting to right wrongs. It has to be kept overt. It has to be true. Protest PR can include demonstrations, hard news stories and any PR mechanism. Minorities have learned that only protest PR can get attention from politicians or lofty institutions or negligent or arrogant bosses. Where protest PR is thought to be a necessity, neglect has already occured on the issues.”
    LRH

  54. Connected, to add to what I said: “What would LRH do?” Well, he wouldn’t have granted any press whatsoever to anyone at any time. To my knowledge, he never did. The interview he did with Hitchman was well controlled. The first person that violated giving the press the time of day was McMinimum when he let Kopple run all over the church. Looks like Marty estimated the effort correctly when he decided to go public with the crimes of DM. — my 2 cents.

  55. connected,

    Miscavige and his “friends” have created this situation all on their own.

    Sorry, you can’t blame “the media” on this one.

    All Anderson and CNN are doing is their job.

    I suggest you read HCOPL Scientology Five, Press Policies and stop whining about the media.

    Personally I think Marty, Jeff and all the other independents have done a excellent job of keeping the media focused on the betrayal of so-called “upper management” in defending a criminally insane morally bereft cretin who deserved to be expelled and declared the moment he signed a deal with the devil. Instead of Scientology.

    Now there is hell to pay and he’s paying it!

  56. Theo Sismanides

    Marty I went to the link but I just could find the first 2 parts. Please help.

  57. Absolutely painful Jim.

    Lets keep in mind DMs logic, with just this Armored Vehicle. (Talk about a miss-allocation of Church Funds) I understand DM Ordered this built on SO members free labour at a cost of $100K ($107,000) It got so heavy with all the bullet proof glass and doors; the drive-train/shocks/axles/wheels and motor. Couldn’t even support or push the bloody thing. So there it sat. Never used.

    I bet he punched or RPFed someone for that F-up.

    I still think, as a Condition of DMs Sentencing; It be DEMANDED in the Judges’ Ruling, (and that day will come). DM be subject to any Committee of Evidence Per LRH for any grievance filed.

    It is Our Religious Right that this be Observed.

    Oh, I can just see it. DM is dragged from the Clinker and his Beans & Rice rations, deemed appropriate from a Previous Com Ev. finding.
    To face yet another Grievance drought forward by another, who claims a 3rd Dynamic Crime.

    In Chains. (State requirement).

    One by one, everyone who wishes, shall be herd.

    If it takes all DMs’ living life, so be it.

    Over the years, if the results find him ‘Declared’ 3678 times. So it shall be.

    If I nuked Earth today, I would certainly expect You to Com Ev me for such a crime half a billion years from now. This guy is done, forever.

  58. Marty should be really clever to manage in a religious organization… to beat people… more than a dozen times… without being effectively stopped… His alleged removal seemingly did not stopped the beatings… (this would be a logical question to ask, how could this be.)
    It was shocking to see Norman and Guillaume. These guys looked totally lunatic.

  59. If I would not be ashamed to use SO slang here, I would say to these guys: “Get your fu***ng ethics in! LOL

  60. I think the real story is both Scientology and non-Scn public are getting a chance to view the “churches” top management without the music, lights and rehearsed PR speeches. I think the public image is changing drastically.

    Scn public imagined that their top Sea Org excutives were strong, ethical, OT, competent, coordinated as a team, winning across their dynamics, etc.

    Non Scn public considered the church was a money grabbing, mafia like cult, but it was a tough, highly coordinated, non nonsense type organization that you didn’t want to tangle with.

    What the recent media exposure and ESPECIALLY the CNN series is exposing is quite different. Forget about the question of “who hit who”. The raw look at the churches top veteran managers is the bigger story.

    In my opinion these people showed they are weak,
    stupid, incompetent, beat down, defensive, uncoordinated and basically pathetic. They have broken relationships, disconnected familes, they are willing to publicly attack long term spouses, they live in a world of abuse, the are liars (and poor at that), ….

    This is what people looked up to? This is what people feared? This is what people donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to be like?

    Not any more. Scn public are waking up and walking away. Celebrities with any sense are cutting ties. Witnesses to the abuse are standing tall and speaking out. And where is its “leader”?
    Where has the wife and assistant of this “leader” been for the last 4 years?

    I believe that the exposure of the lies, abuses and crimes is just starting. I think that the momentum and depth of the exposure will only start to pick up from here.

  61. Short, sweet, hard questions. Been waiting for that to happen. He’s starting to wrap it up.
    Where’s dave?
    Any bets on him showing up?
    I think it is 50-50 at this point. Depends on how bad it goes for him tomorrow. Have a feeling AC has a bomb to drop then.

    The others were pathetic to watch. Good lesson about why it’s not smart to violate your personal integrity that far. They are lost beings. Really hard to watch.

  62. Just for additional information:
    yesterday in german tv a movie was aired re Scn. Plot is in essence a family that split up because of Scn disconnection policy. And after that on 3 stations also discussions on Scn. Including one in Austria. Makes up 4 same day airings about Scn in german speaking tv. Maybe Swiss too, but I cannot see swiss tv. Looks like that a major push is now going on to handle Scn.

  63. If the numerous beatings were being done by Marty Rathbun as Tommy Davis says, then how come the church never called the police and filed charges against Marty Rathbun?

    Could the reason why nobody called the police and no charges were filed be because it was the head of the church, David Miscavige and not Marty Rathbun that was doing the beatings?

    If the head of the church, David Miscavige was doing the beatings, could that explain why the police were never called and charges were never filed?

    In any event, it is still a bad reflection on the Miscavige regime that there are ANY beatings going on at the international base at all.

  64. Theo Sismanides

    I finally found the video. The logical question by Anderson why Miscavige was not informed for so many years left Guillaume Leserve and Norman Starkey without any logical answer.

    They are just broken pieces, I am so happy after 10 years this is happening though I don’t like Scientology being ridiculed.

    They cannot even defend the church in any way.

  65. Theo Sismanides

    connecting, yea! What would LRH do if policy was not applied. I was taken off post for insisting on applying certain policy. What do you think LRH would do for that? He would find a safe ground and talk.

    Now you guys who follow Golden Age of Tech and all the alterations and all the Super Power Super Reggings and everything, have, I repeat, YOU have made CNN a more safe place to talk than our church.

    A declared for inisting on applying Standard Tech and not GAT.

  66. I’ve got it up on Youtube:

  67. Theo Sismanides

    That’s a big shame! Big Shame! 1 – 2 million! A big shame!

  68. Theo Sismanides

    connected, I made a mistake on What Would LRH Do. He had his safe ground, the church, which he created, no need to go to the media for him.

    But for all the rest of us, realize our only recourse right now, because you guys inside DON’T GET IT, is to do anything legitimate to unveil the suppressives.

    I repeat, every moment that’s passing in Scientology without honestly applying LRH, you guys make it more safe to talk to CNNs than to the Church.

    We did talk to the Church, all of us. Now we ain’t talking anymore, we take back what was unethically and suppressively taken from us.

  69. Onlines public

    From conversation with an onlines public, paraphrased:

    I am apalled and surprised that the so-called leaders of my religion would go on international TV and lie so blatantly. It is embarassing and humiliating. A message to David Miscavige: we are watching you. Next time you stand up in front of us and tell us about the extraodinary expansion happening in the scientology world, we will be looking at you through different eyes. Why not do the decent thing and face up to the truth. Guillaume, very disappointing. I looked up to you, you have lost all credibility. Norman Starkey likewise. Tommy Davies, I was watching through my hands it was that embarassing. My church has become something horrible and vile, I never thought I would see this day.

  70. Theo Sismanides

    veritas, I love you. For what you are and what you did and can do in life. Yes, let’s deliver. I am thinking of all the good people here and what it’s going to be. You are all my brothers in arms now and soon we are back on delivery and having a happy life. Our auditor is in France delivering there and is one of the best auditors. We can do it, we don’t need anybody’s license to deliver freedom. The time has come! Thank you so much for sharing that concert incident!!

  71. Theo Sismanides

    ubiguitous, thanks for the quote. Spot on by Source.

  72. Veritas,

    I love this story of yours. Your lovely posts are becoming even lovelier. You are winning, winning, winning, and it is beautiful to witness. Go, girl!

    Last evening, another person here and I had our first telephone conversation. Prior to “meeting” here, we’d never even heard of each other. And now we each have a new friend.

    I know I would feel the same way after a first phone call with many of you.

    Thank you, Marty, and thanks to everybody here. For obvious reasons I consider each of you a friend.

    Just Me

  73. Would it be possible for those posters living near an org, to do an informal straw poll with fellow Scientologists. What was their take on the shows?

    I, for one, would be figuring out how to wrap up whatever service I was taking as quickly as possible, and get the hell out of Dodge. Those church representatives very scary looking people.

    Some earlier poster had pointed out that DM could care less how the general public reacts to the shows. What he’s so desperately trying influence is what remains of the dwindling group of ‘true believers’ who hold his daily lunch money. Well, I’d say he IS influencing them, in ways he couldn’t possibly have imagined.

    Marty, your TRs are very good! To stand up before all Scientologists around the world, plus all those many millions of the general public, takes a special commitment and purpose. I really thank you.

  74. A friend of mine (still on lines but inactive) emailed to say she thought Anderson completely nailed it. Pointed out the obvious. Whoever was doing the beatings is guilty of a felony.

    Within the scn world we are so very accustomed to yelling at juniors, to being yelled at and made less of that we somehow think this is normal.

    Having had to de-program myself from a very aggressive way to get things done — I can tell you — the world outside of scn abhors bullies, abhors “power over” others.

    The tipping point isn’t far off.

    I feel so fortunate that I have close, dear friends who remind me when I am getting too aggressive, too wound up.

    Mosey I feel is a prime example of the compassion and warmth and very grounded perspective I would wish I could manifest daily.

    WH

  75. “An overt act is something that harms broadly. A beneficial act is something that helps broadly. It can be a beneficial act to harm something that would be harmful to the greater number of dynamics…………….There is an irrationality about “being right” which not only throws out the validity of the legal test of sanity but also explains why some people do very wrong things and insist they are doing right.

    The answer lies in an impulse, inborn in everyone, to try to be right. This is an insistence which rapidly becomes divorced from right action. And it is accompanied by an effort to make others wrong, as we see in hypercritical cases. A being who is apparently unconscious is still being right and making others wrong. It is the last criticism.

    We have seen a “defensive person” explaining away the most flagrant wrongnesses. This is “justification” as well. Most explanations of conduct, no matter how far-fetched, seem perfectly right to the person making them since he or she is only asserting self-rightness and other-wrongness…………….And those who won’t be audited at all are totally fixed on asserted rightness and are so close to gone that any question of their past rightness would, they feel, destroy them………….”

    – You Can Be Right
    L. Ron Hubbard, July 1961

    It was very sad for me to watch this…..I thought we all READ, UNDERSTOOD, and PRACTICED
    what LRH pointed out above.

    I was wrong.

  76. Matt — this is a wonderfully cogent post.

    In my own personal life, currently as a buddhist, I have had the opportunity to meet with not only the leader of my group but almost more importantly the top managing executives of a world wide organization.

    THEY are inspiring to me and have given me examples of what TRUE compassionate leadership is all about.

    They are open to discussion with those who might disagree with an administrative position. And I’ve found them one for one to be not only impeccibly well manners but kind.

    AND their lives are happy.

    What a contrast to our existing scn management team.

    How very sad. It could and should be so very different.

    WH

  77. Tommy, you are the ultimate deaf dumb and blind boy. Hear no evil (except Marty) see no evil (except Marty) speak no evil (except Marty). Tommy can you hear me?

  78. Virgil,

    I think you’re onto something here. This scenario is just nutty enough to be what’s actually happening inside DM’s highly interiorized, don’t-anybody-dare-give-me-any-feedback world.

    Thanks for this viewpoint.

  79. May I add that the executives who post on this blog — Marty, Steve, Jim Logan, Mosey, Sarge, Jeff, Amy and all the other former (except for Mosey of course 🙂 SO execs are inspiring as well.

    They have taken a very bad experience, learned from it and have come out stronger and more true to LRH than I believe they might have been before.

    Also inspiring.

    WH

  80. Mat, “The raw look at the churches top veteran managers is the bigger story.”

    I think this is well said, Mat. Looking at these authority figures once again without the PR.

    Thank’s Marty and friends for bringing Guillaume out in the open once again.

  81. The Ideal org project in Portland has been a nightmare. No real competency shown when buying the first bldg (had to make it go right for some int Event to showcase a bldg in portland), and then the stories change to the public why they are selling it (they said nothing about an event space, just that it was going to cost way to much to renovate which was never properly looked at before buying the bldg). In addition to this a new bldg they have picked out is something like 7 million. Utterly and completely insane decisions using parishioners hard earned monies that they donated thinking they were saving the planet!

  82. The sound could be muted, any text could be removed from the screen and anyone with even half a brain could discern between the fruitcakes and the sensible ones. In other words, the body language speaks volumes!

  83. Jim, Let’s add this to the list of items that needs to be sorted out in any future Church reform. There are clearly existing policies that aren’t working or aren’t being followed, and whichever it is, the result is a pretty ugly mess.

  84. I think this saying (don’t know the author) sums up this blog and its participants perfectly:

    “Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass;
    it’s about learning to dance in the rain.”

    Love,
    WH

  85. Exactly, lunamouth! I too felt Anderson was being unfairly kind to Davis et al … until the dots were connected at the end.

    The only way any of this makes sense, is if DM is knowingly creating and perpetuating this environment of violence and abuse.

    And this is exactly what Anderson pointed out at the end.

  86. Doc Holiday

    Last night’s Scientology crew was nothing more than a perfect example of a bunch of walking missed withholds who are stuck , who knows where, on the time track.

    Guillame and Norman Starkey were stumblin’, bumblin’ and mumblin’ more than Laurence Harvey when he turned over the red Queen of Diamonds in “The Manchurian Candidate”.

    “David Miscavige is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”

    See how life imitates art?

  87. Well, well, well, a deep subject. Tommy may be a deaf, dumb blind, but sure can’t play a “mean pinball” or PR-ball. Obviously he’s not trusted or he would not a lawyer there with him.
    When LG launched into his frenzy I was hoping he would “slip” and tell the truth, TPFE, what safer place to be and comm and be protected than CNN studios, pretty sure their security would provide real safety and security for him.
    It seems the more INT. talks the further their foot slides down their throat. I suppose there is AED and CRP availible

  88. Anderson’s been really nice to them. Can you imagine if Guillaume had been asked, “Mr Lesevre, when was the last time you spoke to your two daughters?” FIREWORKS!
    Or what about the hole, musical chairs or OGH or people getting thrown in the lake, the RPF, heck the RPF’s RPF, beans and rice, staff pay, security, no privacy on mail or phone conversations, PIs, false imprisonment, abortions, disconnection, DM’s lifestyle, staff pay and lifestyle – and that’s just the INT base!!! There is a whole lot of pressure on Scientologists to donate for Super Power. There’s talk that IT is the answer and the usual stuff… And they’re saying that they are going to release it THIS year – we know That’s balogna, but could it be that Miscavige is trying to get his hands on as much money before he makes his getaway?

  89. Marty (or others), I have to ask about the Elephant in the Room:

    So many of the stories of abuse were related to really badly handled PR, which seemingly put Rinder in the position to receive the bulk of the abuse during that time.

    This may be, perhaps, the worst PR that Scn has ever gone through. Interestingly, it’s all about the physical violence, which was precipitated by Bad PR. Catch where I’m going here?

    Marty (and others): Are people being beaten this week? In fact, are some of those who are appearing on TV this week — calling “lie!” to the allegations of beating — are they being beaten this week? Would DM modify his behavior in that regard under this pressure and try to put forth a “Kinder Gentler DM” until this blows over?

    I cannot fathom the cognitive dissonance that would occur with someone being beaten for not effectively lying about NOT being beaten.

  90. What a great quote, WH.

    According to wikianswers.com, it was written by a Vivan Greene.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_life_isn't_about_waiting_for_the_storm_to_pass_It's_about_learning_to_dance_in_the_rain

  91. With the income she’s has made off the church for decades she could easily afford every service the church offers at Flag preferential rates. To my knowledge she has never opened a single one of LRH’s books. Which proves my assertion that Scientology has become a game to keep DM and a handful of lawyers in very comfortable lifestyles.

  92. TRUTH=LOVE=VERITAS

  93. Connected you do make a good point. LRH didn’t use the media, but it was also a different time. There was no internet, news didn’t spread at lightening speed the way it does today. Right or wrong people look to the media for information and guidance on issues.

    Yes there are risks with the media, but they are also a resource that can be turned to anyones advantage.

    I can’t say exactly what LRH would do if he were here in today’s world I do know that he would do everything in his power to expose an organization that abuses its own people, has coerced abortions, and breaks up families and loved ones through enforced disconnection using threats. None of that has anything to do with Scientology as a religion. The Church of Scientology and Scientology are not the same thing anymore.

    I do know this, LRH did say the wrong thing to do is nothing.

  94. Here is my Tommy Parody:

    TD: “Here’s the thing. We DID call the police every time Marty beat someone. EVERY TIME. It happened. It happened. It happened. Absolutely. Certainly. We called.”

    “But Marty Rathbun had infiltrated the local 911 calling center all on his own without any direction from David Miscavige and edited the recordings. Why? To hide his beatings of course. It was all part of his master plan to beat people for fun.”

    “See, it’s written right here on photocopied office paper and highlighted to show it’s true.”

    “We also sent evidence to Amnesty International because Marty, without David Miscavige’s knowledge, had people locked up on Int Base as prisoners, but Marty’s mole at Amnesty International destroyed the evidence.”

    “Marty’s moles are everywhere! In fact, Anderson YOU ARE ONE OF MARTY’S MOLES!”

    “And now you know America, it’s all Marty and Anderson is his mole and all of CNN knows every inch of Marty’s body! And as punishment for similar crimes we excommunicated Marty and made him fake his own escape!”

    “It’s all Marty.”

  95. I agree totally. He was once an unbelievably capable guy. His uncle by the way is Henri Cartier-Bresson, arguably the greatest photographer of the 20th Century. Guillaume has two beautiful daughters who have not heard from him in over 15 years. We met one, Laura, last year and she couldn’t understand how a father would desert his children like Guillaume has done with her and her sister. Yet, disconnection is not a church policy. Riiiiiiiiight! The truth is that Guillaume would give anything to reconnect with them. The man who was once a hero to all European Scientologists has been squashed out of existence and replaced by a stimulus-response mechanism. “Unbelievable disappointment” is a fair assessment. Ask his daughters.

  96. Mark Fisher

    Jim, I am at a disadvantage since I don’t have the High Crimes Policy with me, so I stand corrected.

    But we both know for a fact that in all practicality, if anyone from the Int base had reported any of these attacks to the Police or some other authority, they would be instantly offloaded and declared a Suppressive Person.

    Just because it is written in green on white does not mean it is being applied. Fair Game was supposedly canceled by LRH years ago, but in fact it has been practiced non stop against people like us up until this very day.

    The point is in actual practice, it was against DM policy to go to the authorities and everyone in the Sea Org knows this and that is why reports were never made and when Anderson Cooper asks why not, which is a logical question, Jeff Hawkins answer is 100 percent correct.

    The person reporting is threatening their very salvation through Scientology in their minds since DM controls the strings.

  97. Also, the church does use the media. They put out commercials promoting Scientology, buy ads on the internet. They have Scn representatives do TV, radio shows, even podcasts. I myself have done media work for the church.

    They also use the media to promote what the VMs are doing, anti-drug campaigns etc. They send out a mountain of press releases to media outlets.

    CCHR which is part of the church, uses the media to expose psych abuses . That the media is being used to expose human rights abuses within in the church is somewhat poetic.

    You can’t have it both ways with the media. You can use them to promote your good works, but they can also be used to expose criminal activity, human rights abuses etc within your organization.

    The point is, if the church wasn’t do anything that was criminal or shady this wouldn’t even be an issue. Hopefully public pressure or even criminal charges will result from the media coverage and then finally something can be done about it.

  98. “Slaphappy Church Leader”. I liked that. Too funny!

  99. I noticed that very well. This is sandwiched in with abuse series documentaries. And that is where it belongs.

  100. I think Part III was awesome! Marty was honest and straight forward with his answers. The point where AC mentioned that others had described DM as “kind, generous, etc. etc” Marty, your reply and your facial expression was priceless; there wasn’t any better way to handle the statement from AC; it was perfect!

    From my point of view I see that Guillaume and Norman (via DM), etal have twisted this into an attack on the church. No one has attacked the church in any of the interviews.

    By my observation I think AC has had the cognition who is telling the truth here; just by the zinger at the end; which TD and Monique completely missed because they were too busy not listening and spewing their rehearsed answers.

    Marty, Mike, Jeff, Tom, Amy and Steve you are all heros in my book. Thank you!

    Jan

  101. I agree with you . It’s not blowing over after this. It’s going to snowball. The confusion is just beginning to blow off.

  102. And finally, you sure know how to fight back Marty! Your willingness to fight back is breathing life back into this game called Scientology!

  103. Virgil Samms

    The parallels are uncanny;

    Adolf Hitler was the king of bypass. He called all of the shots. He didn’t let his generals general, even though they went to school to learn tactics and strategy, Hitler always knew better. Any orders of strategy or tactics by his generals were cancelled by Aldolf and replaced by his anemic if not suicidal orders.

    When he gave insane orders to the generals, they knew it was futile to argue with him because if they did it was a one-way ticket to the Russian Front (certain death), after the beatings and tortures.

    Because of Hitlers constant bypass, the Russians and Americans/Brits defeated Hitlers war machine and it wasn’t until the Russian Army was 6 blocks from Hitlars bunker that he put a gun to his own head and said “My God, what have I done.” Bang. He finally did the right thing.

    Stats started going up from that moment on.

    So, because history repeats itself, we learn this valyuable lesson: All we need to do from this point on is keep the pressure on Der Furer and he will do all the sabotage for us, just like he is doing now on national TV. Keep appearing on the media. Keep the number of Indies growing. Keep the attack on DM for being “stupid” and he will tear it all down. In the end he will do himself somehow. Its in his DNA.

  104. All three videos are up on my site if you’ve missed any of them.

    Main point I think to keep in mind on these reports is that Time/Warner doesn’t want to provoke a lawsuit with the church after the 91′ debacle. So they are walking a fine line to get the point across tacitly. They don’t like DM either.

  105. Tommy-boy (with righteous indignation): The Church will defend itself for its own sake and for the sake of its parishioners.

    Defending Truth with Lies

    Defending Liberty with Suppression

    Defending Freedom with incarceration and muzzling

    Defending personal Choice with Coercion, Extortion, Threats and depravation.

    Thus, building a dichotomous religion in the best historical traditions of organized religions.

    “We are a religion, we are a religion, we are a religion!!!” Oh, how pathetically true.

    An artful presentation by AC360. Showing how Dave’s church defends itself so well….

    The church’s defense (in a whiny voice):

    “I know we was fighting, but, Mooooom, Mawdy did it, toooooo”.

    “Daaaaaaddy, Jeffwey was pwaying wiff dose guys in the smiley-face masks, and dose guys scare me’ (because they represent freedom of speech).

    “We didn’t tell because we awe not snitches! And, we couldn’t bovver Davey wiff awe dis widdo stuff like breaking laws and destroying all we stand for in the name of all we stand for.”

    “Why awe you wooking at me like dat? Whaaa-wha-wha-whaaaaaaa.”

  106. Freedom Fighter

    Man, I don’t know whether to cheer or cry — or both. It’s like ripping the bandaid off a festering wound. It takes a great deal of confront and you know it’s gonna hurt, but you also know that, in the end, it’s what’s necessary for things to heal. In this case, there’s a lot of debridement that needs to be done before the healing can begin, I’m afraid.

  107. There is an either/or proposition here, and I don’t think it is being addressed hard enough: Either Marty and others are correct and COB is out of control and needs to be removed ASAP; or if the church is right then dedicated SPs are continuously rising to top international executive positions and are able to remain there for decades doing immesurable damage.

    Either way, Scientologists should be very concerned and should be demanding accountability.

    The violence is an issue of concern but with the pope getting caught up in the latest pedophilia scandal I’ll bet it seems somewhat petty to most people. On the other hand, I find it far more alarming that COB is using IAS funds like his own personal bank account, when the average SO member is getting a pittance. My defense for the high prices in Scientology was always that no one personally benefits financially, but that now appears to not be the case. If these financial irregularities can be proven, maybe top donors could be convinced to demand an honest accounting of the church’s finances, and demand a process in which church leaders can be removed.

  108. Anderson Cooper has celebrity altitude over Tommy Davis. Tommy Davis’ mother is Ann Archer, but Anderson Cooper’s mother is Gloria Vanderbilt!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_cooper

  109. A colleague called me about the show. She is not a Scn. She is a social worker who works in the most prestigious hospital for social workers in the country. I didn’t tell her it was airing but she watches CNN. Her feedback:

    1. She is convinced Marty et all are telling the truth.

    2. The “church” is blantantly lying. “Never,never,never,never?”

    3. The pivotal point was using ex-wives which she felt was a real “cheap shot”. She clearly saw they were put up to do this and confirmed her belief that these people will stop at nothing.

    4. DM is clearly psychotic. And the extent of brainwashing is very serious.

    Another person who is likewise not a Scn and watched it. Simple commented: A story about a fake “pope” running a fake “church”.

    Another nonScn who has watched the shows finds the Scn folks not credible. He fully believes the independents.

    So that’s the feedback from my end.

  110. Yes the world must seem strange to leserve kind of a time warp for him

  111. Cooper lets them provide the footbullets.

  112. Ted Turner has more money than the Church

  113. Honest post oracle

  114. Hmm the org is paid for with public donations, now it ‘isn’t big enough’ so the church is selling it…. and the money is going where? To buy a new bigger church?
    Pardon me for being skeptical…

  115. Two points:
    1. I’d love to see/hear an analysis by someone like Tanya Reiman (spelling) the lady that does the “body language” bit on Bill O’Reiley’s show. She’s great at pointing out deceptive “tells” by people.
    2. After seeing these AC360 shows plus all the information available on the Internet plus my own 39+ years of experience with the subject of Scientology I have come to the conclusion that the Sea Org must go. I appreciate all the good former and current SO staff-victims of the corruption but cannot see ANY reason to trust that organization EVER again. Even after some theoretical reformation, I see absolutely no reason for its existence or continuation.

    I realize that’s a big subject and will no doubt be a topic of much debate. But I just don’t envision a future where I could ever believe in, respect or support the SO again.

    Not just after these most recent disgusting displays of outright corruption either. I’ve long felt uneasy about a fascist leaning management group running the CoS. Now I’m convinced.
    Don’t need it, don’t want it.
    Symbiote

  116. The most telling omission from my point of view is that they have not trotted out Heber Jentzsch, who was the past master of believable church PR .

    I am sure that this is because he is so broken emotionally and physically that his appearance would instantly give away the atrocities that are being committed at the Int Base in Hemet.

    It would be really interesting if Anderson Cooper were to inquire why Heber Jentzsch is not available for comment.

  117. Virgil Samms

  118. Connected: Why don’t you tell us what LRH would have done?

    Personally I am not quite sure what exactly LRH would have done in such a situation but one thing is for sure, he would have done something.

    Marty, Steve, Tom, Jeff, Mike, Amy and many others are doing something about it.

  119. Mark,
    We both know too well the Existing Scene there. And today, I know we both still have the Ideal we’ve not lost in our sights.

    What this whole thing is about now, as far as I can see, is we are making those reports now.

    Today, from a place we CAN communicate, we are.

    What to me is marvellous, a wonder, is that as beings we were tenacious enough to persist and continue to work to right the wrongs that that suppressive atmosphere worked so hard to keep from coming to light.

    The specific High Crime we’re talking about is: “Delivering up the person of a Scientologist without justifiable defense or lawful protest to the demands of civil or criminal law.”

    If there is NO justifiable defense or lawful protest that can be made for violations of civil or criminal law by a Scientologist, then that Scientologist can and should be delivered up to the demands of accountability to the society in which they live for their crimes. There is NO extant, valid Scientology policy that protects them.

    The last paragraph of the policy on SP Acts, 7 March 65RB (was dated as 23 Dec 65 for decades) states:
    “Nothing in this policy shall ever or under any circumstances justify any violation of the laws of the land or intentional legal wrongs. Any such offense shall subject the offender to penalties prescribed by law as well as to ethics and justice actions.” (That is, within the org ethics and justice actions according to Scn policy.)

    Despite DM’s attempts to quash the reporting of his crimes they are now exposed clearly, and he’s being delivered up to the demands of his fellow beings. The demands of reason.

    It was for all intents and purposes, to impose the above policy on DM or his ilk, at the Int Base as we know and Jeff and Marty described. OK, we aren’t there now and it’s emminently possible now.

    I hope in the future, we’ll all be smarter about this sort of thing in its incipient stages. I know I will.

  120. Add ‘impossible’ to the above in the sentence: “It was for all intents and purposes, impossible…”

  121. WomanSetFree

    At $1 – $2 million a year you’d think that she could afford a personal chef, trainer & shopper….
    Seeing as how she is not spending any $$ on services or training.
    At least she could pretend a professional appearance….

  122. Lives Well,
    WTF are all those acronyms? 🙂

  123. BPR,
    I think it is proper to consider in this ‘cart before the horsee before the cart’ rhetorical question that; it is likely DM is holed-up in his very own fortified bunker caring for unfortunate sparrows who flew into the line of his shotgun blasts at the target range where he was recently trying to expel his frustration at the incompetent PR Tommy D who obviously wasn’t word-cleared by Method 9 on his DM advice which contained the word ‘cowwobowate’.

    No, they won’t be beaten for lying about being beaten. Today. DM’s caring for sparrows today.

  124. Tommy Boy

    I’m Tommy, I’m a Sea Org star
    I run with big dogs, travel far.
    I ‘m Tommy, I talk to the press
    And lie about the C of S.

    I don’t use wimpy “ARC”,
    I just enforce reality.
    And just to prove I have some clout,
    I ream reporters’ assholes out.

    “Tough sons of bitches” does describe,
    The group to which I do subscribe.
    Those dickhead staff make some mistake,
    I’ll throw them in the fuckin’ lake!

    Who cares what LRH might say?
    I do things the Miscavige way!
    Like him there’s one thing I do well:
    Throw temper tantrums, scream and yell.

    I see that all the stats are crashed,
    The public gone, the tech is trashed,
    Still COB must be the best,
    ‘cause we’ve got all this “pinch me” MEST.

    I’m Tommy, I am alpha male
    I’ve got my head shoved up my tail.
    And there’s one thing I really hate:
    That goddamn word “cowabowate”!

  125. To UNDERSTAND Scientology and Scientologist one has to BE a Scientologist himself and believe in it as “the ONLY truth!”.

    AC is not a Scientologist so he “doesn’t and won’t understand” Tommy, Norman, Guillome and others with that mindset.

  126. WomanSetFree

    I actually made that very comment to my son, as the lead in was going. “Isn’t it interesting that they are asking how no one acts to stop the school bully & coming up next they will be doing a story on just such an ‘adult’ bully & how it is that he was allowed to continue in his insanity, until now….”

  127. One other thing, for Monique Yingling, the above paragraph from the SP Acts PL precludes your ‘they are handling this internally’ gambit.

    It is Church policy, that the violence perpetrated is subject to both the law of the land and Scn justice.

    Well, at least you got the money for your work if not any KRC. Money is good. It makes one happy. You looked really happy on TV too.

  128. Thats not correct data. There was another media interview done with Hubbard aboard the Apollo that the CofS has always pretended doesnt exist because its paints him in a very unfavorable light, and is not recommended for this audience due to being what I suspect everybody here would call major entheta. (And I respectfully do not post a link because of the negative connotations)

    But fwiw – it was included in a broadcast in 1997 in the UK under the title “The Secret Lives of L. Ron Hubbard”.

  129. Jim, You are right. You know this, and I know this. I am not talking about us here. And we are not there.

  130. Truth,Love, Veritas. Heh, Look Miss Crabtree,
    I finaly wrote a perfect sentence.

  131. Sorry, I am a bit obsessed with taking things apart to see how they work. And I am standing far away from this whole incident that is unfolding and looking at the mechanics of what is actually happening. And no matter which way this turns as a result, the fact is, all Marty has done here, is that he has pulled down a curtain of illusion. He has used white magic, (truth), to bring down a curtain of illusion cloaked around black magic. And that is how simple this incident really is. And frankly I don’t see how anyone could have any doubts about his intentions or actions. This is all he has done pure and simple. Sure, it’s a little uncomfortable . Because we were all stuck to that illusion in some way, maybe hope. But this illusion was not a good thing for anyone. It was a lie. Getting to the truth can never be wrong. And if the illusion blocked the flow of truth, which it did, and what you see with the execs on television is a mad scramble to get the illusion back up. Because they have wrapped this illusion around themselves for protection, but it has become a prison.

  132. As Anderson correctly points out, all the evidence presented so far, all the back and forth of allegations and counter allegations, shows and clearly proves one thing:

    THAT VIOLENCE, ASSAULT AND BATTERY AND OTHER FELONIES ARE BEING PERPETRATED AT THE INT BASE (the scn vatican if you like), BY TOP LEADERS AND THAT IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS.

    That is what any casual observer of this series will conclude.

    Note there has not been one representative of the Church who even tries to deny Amy’s eye-witness account. They have no leverage over her — no inside wife or husband; no false testimonies that she has hurt anyone; gone to squirrels, etc.. They have no come back and no counter for her and so they hope one will not notice while they put all the focus on Marty. But it does not work.

    No reams of affidavits, no amount of “indignation” or expressed outrage can undo the testimony of just one credible, first hand witness.

    What a sad, sad state of affairs.

    Here is what LRH has to say:

    “TRUTH IS NOT DETERMINED BY ITS APPEAL BUT BY THE EVIDENCE.”
    — LRH article

    “TRUTH IS BUILT BY THOSE WHO HAVE THE BREADTH AND BALANCE SO SEE ALSO WHEN THEY’RE WRONG.”
    — LRH, A New Slant on Life

    Anyone watching the series can easily see who is applying this LRH wisdom and who is not.

    Thank god that life is in us today and we make our own tomorrow.

    Here comes the sun……

  133. Sorry there was a typo in one of the LRH quotes.
    Here it is corrected:
    “TRUTH IS BUILT BY THOSE WHO HAVE THE BREADTH AND BALANCE TO SEE ALSO WHEN THEY’RE WRONG.”
    – LRH, A New Slant on Life

  134. Some have wondered if maybe the leaders of the Church who we’ve been watching debate CNN’s Anderson Cooper were possibly not that evil and so not deserving of harsh words.

    With all due respect, most of you don’t know these individuals who are standing up for David Miscavige. You don’t know how vicious some of them have become.

    Viktor Frankl in his book, “Man’s Search for Meaning” talked insightfully about those people who ran the Nazi death camps. Prior to their role as Nazi soldiers and prison guards, they were ordinary students, bakers, accountants… the next thing they are murdering people by the millions. Some were brutal to their fellows. Others were secretly kind to the prisoners… smuggled in medicine to them at great personal risk.

    All beings are basically good and that is a fact as LRH discovered. If it weren’t true, people wouldn’t do themselves in when they go out ethics. And as we can see, every time Tommy, Jenny, any of these people open their mouths they are doing themselves in and actively hastening their demise. That is their basic goodness coming through, that is the part of them that DOES know what they are doing is wrong, and they are ACTIVELY working with us on that. That is a fact.

    However, you can’t just pat these people on the head, “Nice doggy.” They will bite your arm off up to the shoulder and then tear out your throat. So in my opinion, they do NOT deserve any sentimental treatment until they individually decide to stop being wild wolves.

    It all comes down to… and this was the point Viktor Frankl made in his book… it all comes down to how people decide to react to a bad situation.

    We can’t always control bad circumstances. Sometimes the situation was not even created by us. In the case of the Church, the situation was created by David Miscavige. What each individual CAN control however, what is utterly within their own control, is how to react to that bad situation.

    Would you become like them, a wild beast eating the innards of children? Or would you refuse to become a beast and eventually choose to escape?

    These people found themselves in a horrible situation and decided to become demonic themselves. Others, no matter how bad it gets, REFUSE to become a Death’s Deputy.

    These scorpions you see on CNN: Jenny Devocht, Anne whatever her name is, Kathy Rinder, Cathrine (Jeff’s ex), Norman Starkey, GL, Monique Yingling and especially, especially, especially Tommy Davis — everyone of these micro-mental midgets have decided to react to the bad situation by growing fangs, claws, stingers and transforming themselves into ruthless and vicious predatory wolves while pretending (only to themselves) that they are still nice people.

    The things they have done and condoned are vicious beyond imagination.

    If anyone ordered you to disown your husband, wife or child, would you do it? It reminds me of the Bible story where God ordered Abraham to murder his own son. Jackass Abraham who qualified as total scumb, took out a knife and was going to murder the child. To me, that’s not sane.

    That story does not illustrate “faith” — it’s a total perversion of the word. It illustrates madness. It illustrates one man’s willingness to become a monster.

    My own ex-wive gave me every provocation to disown her. I never did. She refused to come with me when I left… and I only left when my own destruction was looming like slow bolt of lightning half way down its stroke.

    So do have principles and here is what I believe in: integrity.

    These icy creatures have no integrity. Their only “truth” is whatever David Miscavige says at the moment. They have forsaken every grip they ever had on reality, forfeit themselves, their husbands, wives and daughters, they forfeit their pledge to help mankind… not for Scientology, not for any “greater good,” but to save their own skin from midget monster David Miscavige.

    I’m telling you Jenny Devocht was so vicious if I had to lie down next to her or a slavering rabid dog, I’d choose Old Yeller.

    Veritas, has it right. Rage is not necessarily vicious at all. I just know what these people have done: how they sold Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard down the river, how they knew Janela Webster’s daughter — just a child — wound up living on the street in Los Angeles and no one told Janela about it. What kind of human being abandons a child to live on the street in LA?

    People have died because of David Miscavige and those who support him. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands of horror stories just as bad — and these are the craven scarecrows who did it.

    Personally, I draw the hard line. I never beat anyone. I never subscribed to DM’s pain drive theory, i.e., using ARC in REVERSE to fill people with fear so they will obey.

    They have done that. They are still doing it today and they refuse to stop.

    Sure, they weren’t like that when Marty, Mike, Tom and Jeff married them. They weren’t in the DM circumstance yet. But then they entered that bad situation and found themselves in the talons of David Miscavige.

    How they decided to react to that predicament was entirely up to them. They decided to throw away all of Scientology and become themselves demons in DM’s image. They went willingly into his thrall and they knowingly became vicious and evil.

    This sequence is really the anatomy of how a service facsimile is created — first cousin to an evil purpose. When faced with a threatening situation you can’t itsa (meaning it’s so complex and twisted you can’t just spot “Oh, it’s a _____!”), you have no choice but to invent a computation that will enable you to somehow survive. “To survive, you have to die” or whatever. Lots of people DO elect to die prematurely in Scientology and that’s why. This accounts for the high OT mortality rate. People move up the Bridge, come face to face with suppression from the Church, and bail out.

    These traitorous idiots like Jenny and Anne and Cathy and Tommy Boy made a different computation. They decided to the only way to survive was to become like DM and do whatever he does, treat people the way he says to treat them.

    In other words, surrounded by SPs, they decided to become SPs themselves.

    So today, we have a true battle of almost biblical-like proportions of good against evil.

    The Independent Scientologists are those who refused to become themselves a suppressive person.

    The Church of Scientology has been subverted and converted by David Miscavige into a factory that creates suppressive anti-social people.

    And if that is not hitting the nail on the head, nothing is.

    I have spoken. 🙂

    Archer

  135. AlexMetheny

    LOL!!!!!

  136. Fellow Traveller

    Marty — on what I think is very pertinent to the airing of this CNN special, in your blog from 26 Feb, https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/miscaviges-war-on-the-media/
    you stated:
    “Now, DM has bought off and intimidated Time Warner and its branch CNN, shuddering them into silence. I am investigating his buying off Associated Press and CBS. You WILL DEFINITELY be hearing particulars about these matters. ”

    I would definitely be interested in the story behind the positive ethics change in TW/CNN.

    Upcoming post, right ;-)?

    Bruce

  137. Fellow Traveller

    (loud ka-twang as the arrow pierces the bulls-eye)

  138. beebs,
    Oh yeah! You are a wascal!

  139. Sarge,
    I’m enjoying your economy of words immensely. A perfect sentence, hah!

  140. Well stated. Thank you.

  141. Archer, you have hit the arrow down the middle of the arrow, split it and sunk deeply into the target.

  142. My god Archer. I have goose bumps. Its been
    a long time since I’ve heard so much truth from
    one source (other than LRH). I sure hope you
    continue to post here. I’m impressed. I know
    you have anger but beleive me it is justified
    and shared.

  143. Redneck Thetan

    I was disappointed that the disconnection part of the story was delayed a night apparently to give the last-minute interviews more time. But it was also nice to see Anderson giving the drill-down treatment to everyone. Marty handled it beautifully and, most importantly, was completely courteous. Unlike the church management and that nasty lawyer, who seemed intent on making Anderson feel like an idiot. Apparently they’ve missed all the news reports he did in New Orleans and Haiti and many other places where he called officials out to their faces. He’s seen a lot scarier things than TD, that’s for sure.

    I think tonight will be the part where a lot of the answers will be given to the non-Scis who are watching just for the drama. I have one friend who is very anti-Sci (she has Stage 4 cancer and apparently a staff member tried to talk her into coming into the org by saying they could handle her illness off the chemo) who says that Scientology is the one train wreck that she can’t stop watching. But the big questions I keep seeing come up are why the ex-wives didn’t leave, why the people featured didn’t leave, etc. Showing how much there is to lose and how much people like most of the people who post here HAVE lost is important. And I hope that the harassment by OSA is addressed somewhere.

    I’m glad to hear that CNN’s getting such a huge response via email and phone to the series. I guarantee this won’t be the last week this is on AC360. And I hope that in the end somehow this can come around full-circle and show how people are being healed by the tech outside the mainstream church. Because what hurts my heart is knowing how hard it’s going to be to rebuild the name and reputation of Scientology after enough is done to reclaim the church for its true purpose (and since I’m so new and have no family ties, I can imagine that’s doubled for those of you who have been using and living the tech for most or all of your lives.) It’s going to be so hard but I have no doubt that the people showing so much theta here will be able to do it just by continuing to help.

  144. Hallo Archer,
    quite a dissertation of why some do bad things. (my father had been a member of Waffen SS and after the war he had no other way to confront his deeds by drinking heavily himself to death.)
    But I wondered since the beginning of the story in around 83 how this could happen. In 83 I was sitting next to a Sec Cecker Auditor for “ethics presence” reasons. A fellow staff had been sec checked. I had been interested how this works as I never got a gangbang sec check myself. I observed that the sec checker asked a question and the staff told his story. EVERY time the TA went down the sec checker gave a severe reality adjustment. Only when the TA went down. By the way this sec cecker had been a 70ies oldtimer CL4 Flag Trained and OT3.
    This told me that behind the obvious there must be a hidden thing present to get some automatics going on.
    In the 3rd Reich those people had for shure applied heavy stuff to get people to murder others. But they also had mind tech to handle the population.
    And DM or DM and others in the background have also applied mind tech to bring this situation into being.
    I have up to now not found out what exactly and therefore I could not blow it. I waited for years and years that some OTs might handle the situation. But I had to observe that many OTs I knew had been effect of it and could not see the situation. They either blew or are now part of the system.
    As I am german I have to see almost every week a TV show that tells me how bad we had been and why this could happen and why nobody did stand up and handled Hitler.
    DM is not Hitler. But this year or next year the wogs will get ethics in on INT Base and then wogs will ask why we did not stand up to DM and handle him.

  145. OEC/FEBC I agree and support that. There is charge blown by being able to speak freely, itsa horror experiences and share realities. Until recently, many had been duped into thinking it was a singular anomaly.

    Particularly after witnessing executives on television, their ill and robotic demeanor and all the consequences of dishonest (whether deceiving themselves or to the public), it has never been more clear that egrgeious illegal and inhumane actions are ongoing and perpetrated. The actions are being shielded by and justified by Scientology.

    That is *not* the purpose of this or any philosophy or practice that was created for human evolution and achievement of truth.

    It’s deeply bothersome to me in a new way. More needs to be done. .. yes, delivery and practice of Scientology is beginning to occur in the field, this is fantastic. But the crimes must be illuminated in no uncertain terms.

    The world has now observed willful intent to deceive and obstruct justice by officials entrusted by the government and people who think they’re getting and serving Scientology — They have and are betraying that trust. We’re not talking garden variety O/W’s. What next?

  146. I think Anderson Cooper understands a heck of a lot more than Tom Cruise and those other “representatives” (not) of Scientology. after all, Scientology is knowing LIFE. (That’s why it resonates!) A lot of fabulous, capable beings such as Anderson Cooper have been out there knowing life and observing.

    I watched him deal with the parents of the child who was bullied and took his life. His understanding, duplication and communication to them were impeccable. Isn’t that TRs?

    Compare that to the fidgeting, whiny, convoluted choir of “Scientology reps” and their comm.

    That’s what I’m saying. TRs did not invent communication. TRs are the result of someone who observed and mapped a gradient roap map to practice *existing components* of Life.

    Anderson Cooper gets a pass on his TRs. 😉 He may call it something else. And doing a comm course might blow him away because he’d go YEAH! That’s what I do and here’s how to do it better.

  147. ★It is Church policy, that the violence perpetrated is subject to both the law of the land and Scn justice. ★

  148. WH. I’m walking in the rain. Thank you.
    PS. Do you know how many Windhorse prayer flags I have fying about? A bunch.

  149. Anderson Cooper is stellar. He doesn’t tell. He observes. He shows.

  150. Nonscientologist

    I’ve been reading this website and the other independant scientology websites for a number of months. I find Marty and the defectors more credible then those who have testified on behalf of the church. It seemed that Norm was almost on the edge of his seat, trying to insert counterattack after denial, knowing he would be judged harshly for his performance, and that gave a certain vehemance to his responses.

    I would like to make an observation having served in a Christian organization called Habitat for Humanity which had its own problems with its leader. (Look up Millard Fuller and sexual harassment on google) and that is that religious organizations generally do not function the Sea-Org way unless they are cults. Let me explain.

    When I was with HFH, at its international headquarters, no matter how bad the internal scandal, there was.

    1) Nothing stopping me from leaving, walking to the bus station, and booking a ride out of Georgia.

    2) Nothing controlling who I called in my immediate family.

    3) No fences or security around any of our buildings or group residences. No RFP either, there was no penal unit, if you were fired, you were fired.

    4) If I went to HR, and told them I was leaving because MF was a letch, they would have asked me if I wanted to do an exit interview, and when I declined, maybe taken me off the HFH mailing list. They would not have sent out messages telling the hundreds of affiliates not to have anything to do with me.

    5) They would have asked me when I would get my gear out of their group residence. I might get 48 hours, but they did not have a security department and this would be handled by their housing coordinator.

    6) If I went on TV to make such observations about MF, they would have maybe put one PR person on, to claim I was an opinionated malcontent but they would have never shared the contents of my HR file. Their lawyers would have never sent a cease and desist, and would have laughed if asked about hiring a private investigator, whose expense could have probably built a third of one of their houses.

    7) No one from HFH would have called me, and told me that I would lose my relationship with god because I disagreed with MF. They might tell me I was hurting the mission of the organization but they couldn’t threaten to “excommunicate me”. They also wouldn’t call me repeatedly to get money. I’d get a newsletter instead.

    8. I could generally talk to anyone I wanted to in Americus Georgia, though obviously if I walked up to MF and started firing away questions, I would have had to pack my bags.

    At the time, I made $25 a week and stayed in housing for free. But this was temporary. If you served at the headquarters for more then say 6-12 months you became an extended volunteer and made $300 a month. Almost everyone who stayed longer then two years became regular staff, who were paid a regular salary, which was in line with what people were paid in rural Georgia, with limited benefits.

    Other churches do this the same way. The Mormans for example may pay their missionaries peanuts but you only go through such deprivation for say 2 years, not 5, 10, or 30.

    The point I’m making is that the Sea Org is used to control the staff of Scientology and as a money making venture for the church. How does an organization get a 1 billion slush fund? It helps when say 1,000 people who might each earn $20,000 a year or much more, end up getting paid $2,500 a year (if that), for 80-120 hours a week.

    This is almost a marxian transfer of capital from the workers, to a few people at the top of the organization.

    Secondly, by keeping people on the edge financially, and running a system in which they have no unapproved contact with the outside world it makes it much harder for them to have any leverage with the organization. It is much more difficult then a regular job just to leave, because this one has destroyed your contacts with regular society.

    I hope you guys become the source and face of scientology, but do not re-create the Sea org. It just seems to have been used as a repressive tool of control against anyone who would dissent from COS policy.

  151. I agree Mark. I think DM purposely set these meetings up on the day the show was to air, so that no rebuttals could take place.
    If they had shown up when it was originally taped, Marty, Mike, Amy, Jeff, etc could have responded to the nonsense they are now spewing. This was quite a clever ploy by the midget.

  152. Spot on Mat Pesch.

    *”This is what people looked up to? This is what people feared? This is what people donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to be like?” *

  153. “All beings are basically good and that is a fact as LRH discovered.”

    “here is what I believe in: integrity.”

    “These icy creatures have no integrity.”

    Here is what I believe amongst basicly good beings there are a few that just do not have intergrity. When sanity reigns they will blend in because of group moral/ethics but they are the ones that have the Miscavige vibe within them.

  154. Moving Forward

    It’s amazing how insular viewpoints can become.

    I remember the local org showing that interview of Tom Cruise by Matt Lauer as an example of Tom ‘kicking ass’. I was thoroughly embarrassed by that piece, it was terrible, but yet it was lauded and everyone cheered. Some of the commercials that get shown to the public at events also have made me ask myself ‘What the hell were they thinking?’. I’m going to guess that Jenny attacking Anderson will be regarded as her ‘kicking ass’, the same with Norman Starkey, because the viewpoint is that attacking, yelling and screaming are the right ways to handle things.

    One thing that the church reps do not seem to be getting is that violence in the workplace is *not* normal and is considered really shocking; most people press charges for stuff like that. That it went unchecked for so long, no matter who did it, is shocking in an of itself. The repeated line that ‘well, David Miscavige wasn’t there, so that’s why it was able to continue for so long,’ is insanity. No one else was capable of doing anything about it? They don’t see now messed up that is. Guillame Leserve saying that it wasn’t a matter worth the leader of the Church’s time shows how unimportant it was considered. I guess having a ‘psychotic’ reigning terror down on the staff was that big of a deal. What?

    Anderson nailed it when he said that the only way it made sense that it went on to so and no one reported anything was if it was the leader of the church who was indeed the one perpetrating the violence. And he’s right. It’s the only scenario that makes sense.

  155. WOW — me too … I have a large string of them in my woods — I can see from my bedroom — then another further out and yet another I can see from the road.

    Love prayer flags!! especially windhorse ones 🙂

    WH

  156. The big not talked about elephant in the room. Being 78 and in the Hole can the worst it can mean DM has more blood on his hands.

  157. Archer,

    This is a really interesting post. I’ve often wondered about this point, and maybe someone can direct me to a reference. The point being, does the being actually decide at some point to become overwhelmed by the restimulation? Or is it that he just becomes so thoroughly swamped that he has no choice? I took my own answer for this from SOS, where Ron talks about the theta to entheta ratio. I thought the people who would survive the situation such as it is at Int and still retain some of their own free theta were just bigger beings and could tolerate more enturbulation without becoming overwhelmed. I’d love to get some other references on this.

  158. That private “interview” was it not in fact the old Introduction Video ?

  159. They are not Scientology. David Miscavige, Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley, John Travolta are not Scientology.

    One of the greatest sanity light bulbs turned on to illuminate the society right now is that difference — the difference between Scientology and clowns pretending to be Scientology.

    What is HOLY in Scientology is the HUMAN SPIRIT. Everyone is one. Scientology is a way to assist that.

    Right now, the exact opposite has hijacked Scientology and is holding it ransom, i.e., about the only unholy thing per David Miscavige is spiritual beings — he wastes them like a used kleenex.

    In the media, SPs use clowns as examples of Scientology. The ignoramuses are simply gleeing feeding on chaos like vultures on carrion. And what they hold up for ridicule is not Scientology!

    Marty has opened the world discussion and done service to that very difference. May the lightbulb wattage get brighter and brighter as societies recognize that the carnage, the buffoons, the egomaniacs, the marble, the laser light shows, the arrogant finger-pointing elitists, the riciulers and haters who have preyed on the confusion for their own interests, those who attack ideologies and the human spirit, the out of context quotes and misquotes and character attacks on LRH are not Scientology.

    I heard a lecture where LRH said even HE is not Scientology. There is Scientology, and he might even have his own opinions, but they are not Scientology. (a wonderful mind of a scientist discerning the difference between observation, repeated results of a pilot/experiment and personal opinion.)

    Scientology is a subject.

  160. Theo me too!!

    (“I am so happy after 10 years this is happening though I don’t like Scientology being ridiculed. “)

  161. Sarge yes!

    vincit amor et veritas (my coat of arms) ☼

  162. Nonscientologist, Thank you so much for posting this. I found it very helpful. Thank you for your voice, experience and insights

  163. lol i love it

  164. Thanks for the links, War and Peace. Oh I see Monique Yingling is no dingaling where the money is concerned.

    So she is the counsel to protect the “Church” profits from the IRS?

    I hope she doesn’t add too badly to the amoral reputation attorneys have. I wish attorneys cared about truth and Law ethics more than loopy loopholes.

  165. No!?? The Corporate “We’ll Sell YOU your Soul” has siced bullies on CNN???

    April Fools, right???

  166. 🙂 I love you too Theo Sismanides and Just Me and everybody here!

    I look forward to many more of us meeting one day soon.

    Thanks for your kindness, especially for putting up with my typos and other typing errors. I should be better about proofing my comments before hitting the “submit” button.

  167. This is really tough sh.. to confront. They got overts of an unimaginable magnitude.
    Is that the end of the Sea-Org ?
    Who wants to come back there ?
    The highest ranking sea org members a bunch of namby pamby dilletantes, liars “It’s all Marty’s and Mike’s fault”. Like little kids !
    I still can’t believe what I have seen. I’m sure this is just a bad dream and I will wake up and will know I had a nightmare.
    I’ve also my part in that sad story due to my own ommissions.
    I already knew and observed in 1982 what’s going on, but I was a coward to say what I’ve seen. I paid my price for it.
    The only good thing about it, is that it is happening now and not in 300 years when the dammage would have been much greater.
    I think, this is the first and last time in the history of Scientology that a bunch of idiots are in power . Like the germans say ” never, never again”.
    This week will become a holy week and has to be remembered in eternity every year, so that our children will never forget to stay alert.
    It will become a holliday where families are coming together and the game will be that one has to answer to questions that other family members are asking, in front of a camera and one is only aloud to tell the truth. Truthday.
    I can imagine what the stories will be in 300 years and the legends that will be told about how Marty and his friends with Tech alone were able to destroy the SPs.
    I will tell the story to my grandchildren.
    Its about time that the tech is given to Mankind and it is used with nobody in control.
    Only the “friends of Lrh, that will stay fabian in eternity, are from time to time publishing some remarks and are comparing the tech that is used to source.
    We don’t need more control or management than that. In the end, we are all aldults and knowledgeable people that can think, we don’t need anyone to tell us what we have to think or to do. We don’t need any more religion to control people. We only need our own integrity and the courage to say what we see.

    I know this week were just some tiny waves announcing the Tsunami.
    I don’t know if you guys know the magnitude of what you’re doing. Your place in history is alredy written. Propably we will have to create some more hollydays.

    “Vive la résistance” “Le jour de gloire est arrivé”

    MHO

    Thanks guys

    LO

  168. Freedom Fighter

    Love it!!

  169. Fellow Traveller

    A Miscavige of justice.

    That is the group trauma that Marty and the Gang are helping to run out so artfully.

  170. Allready in 1978 at a staff meeting he told he would like to cancel and forbid missions and franchises.
    I was staff in a successful mission that was transformed into and org under his command. It was pushed up to have high stats, waisting all resources that were build up in years and then it crashed and did never recover. the same happened to 3 other missions I knew.
    Nevertheless he created the “Europe Spirit” which was a great motivation tool and once in 1986 I reported him an International out-ethics scene and in no amount of time he handled it and had the courage to write back to me “It seems that you and me are the only one that know this policy from Lrh”

    How sad was it to see him on that chair.

    LO

  171. and the real crapper about all of it is they are still leasing another bldg where the org currently is, and haven’t even used any of the purchased bldg for the org or for delivery.

    They didn’t want to move into it until it was fully renovated, etc.. so what a waste of money for over two years, a vacant big bldg that was never utilized for the org, and they still pay rent on their current space.

  172. Oh, man, someone’s got to put this to music and get it out to the world. Freaking hilarious lyrics, beercat. We owe you one.

  173. Joe,
    Rolling the track back to the early ’80s… the nefarious Mission conference in San Fran where Kingsley Wimbush (?) was declared and the big mission holders SRA’d, threatened and fined… Guillaume and Norman were part of that charade, were they not?

    The magnitude of that overt against the missions and field of that time would be the sort of thing I could see hanging guys like Lesevre and Starkey.

    Commit a biggie like that, justify the hell out of it and the rest of the things (overts) dm wants you to do start coming easy.

    Get a nice long chain of overts and dm can say “If they get me, I give them you guys, too.”

    This is the same criminal mechanism dm tried to use to trap Marty: commit the overt of slapping someone around until it becomes an operating basis, then you’re trapped.

    The mutual out ruds and threat of mutual destruction that is supposed to occur if you’re “found out” is supposed to be enough to keep you in line.

    Marty broke that line of aberration. My bet is Guillaume and Norman didn’t and are caught up in it and are dramatizing it. They are lost until they either wake up and take responsibility, or until the Indies bring down the walls, rescue and rehab them.

    IMO, after that performance last night their position in the rehab line might’ve slipped a few spots.

  174. beebercat,

    Wonderful !
    That will be one of our protest song !

    LO

  175. Apparently Scientologists are afraid of DM, if I my answer your question. One that hangs on youtube said she didn’t want to get disconnected from her family. I’ve pointed out to all the Scientologists I am aware of on youtube that the only way to stop being afraid is to reform. I don’t think it’s right that people would be afraid to write their concerns to DM, but the same fear comes up: I’ll be disconnected from everyone.

    Why would someone kick you out a religion just for voicing a concern?

    To all those who are here, have their own blogs, to the people who wrote eye-opening Knowlege Reports, and people who have come out: I tell the youtube Scientologists to go here. Seeing this I hope will give them to courage to find their own voice.

    Scientology doesn’t belong to DM, it belongs to Scientologists.

    Happy Easter Marty and Mosey.

  176. The physical violence, which both sides now agree occurred, is a stand in, a metaphor perhaps for the real issue, the disfunction of the current Church of Scientology.

    Much worse things are continually happening in the world than some executives being violent in a limited internal group.

    The real issue is the betrayal of the potential of scientology by the Church than owns the marks for it. And the fight, using the violence issue, is for the power to change that.

    The general public would hardly be interested in the arcane debate about “scientology’s potential”, but may be influenced by the sensationalism of violence and scandal. And public scientologists will be forced to confront the now public failure of the church leadership to act sanely.

    It is interesting to see this battle of symbolic representation. It is nice to be on the winning (and correct) side. Thanks Marty, Jeff, Tom, Amy, and the doors always open a crack to those others…

  177. “Guilleme looked like he was about to spit up pea soup and do the head spinning thing. Man, I just cannot believe that an executive with his experience can become so unglued about something, and act that way if it was just a matter of Marty and the rest being liars.”

    If you think he’s appears unglued now, just wait till the Miscavige regime falls apart.

  178. OH. MY. GOD.

    ROTFLMAO!!!!

    Beebercat, you rock!!!

  179. “It is too bad that Heber has been in lockdown for the last 5 1/2 years.
    He is not even being allowed to salvage the PR mess.”

    Are you kidding? Heber’s probably on our side.

  180. Precisely, nonscn. I’ve worked in non-profit and church affiliated organizations since 1980 (after I left the Sea Org), and I could not agree with you more.

    Organized Scientology had a chance to change and evolve as an organization, the same chance any organization has after start-up, and blew it – bad.

    I think several of us have said, in different ways, that the oranizational structure, policies, and practices should have been (and need to be) treated as just that – rather than assigning them all “scripture” status in an attempt to raise the organization above the law.

    The actions of the CoS speak so loudly the words are drowned out.

    If it looks like a cult and acts like a cult…..by any other name.

  181. Matt
    I couldn’t agree with you more! The tearing away of the invinciple, total cause stereotypes, exposing these pathetic husks, has done irrepairable harm to their false image. And none too soon. I think as time goes by we’ll see many more delightful sub-products come about. I wonder how JT is weathering this storm?

    As each night goes by I’m getting more and more excited for the reasons that Matt described above.

  182. When the church sends just 1 person to handle a PR problem, what does that tell you?

    When the church sends 8 people to handle a PR problem, what does that tell you?

    Are things getting better for David Miscavige or worse? How would you plot this on a chart?

  183. “Overall, I’d say the score is:

    Independents: 3
    CofMiscavology: 0”

    Yes, I agree.

    And I think we’ve seen all they have. I don’t think there’s anything left in the barrel for them to try next.

  184. ROFLMFAO!!

  185. I found this very interesting and well written. Your points are valid, and I agree with your
    conclusions! Thanks for contributing. I hope
    you do so again.

  186. Veritas,

    You’re right. AC has a natural understanding of TR’s and the comm cycle. I noticed the same thing you did. His comm cycle and ARC level in the segment with the parents of the kid who committed suicide were wonderful. LRH mapped out the comm cycle and broke it down into ways to drill it with the TRs, but some people have a natural understanding of communication, and Anderson Cooper is definitely one of them.

  187. Beautifully funny!

  188. Yeah, and all he done for them over the years.

  189. John Locke:

    “The improvement of understanding is for two ends: first, our own increase of knowledge; secondly, to enable us to deliver that knowledge to others.”

  190. ” . . . YOU have made CNN a more safe place to talk than our church. ”

    True and amazing. CNN IS safer place to talk than the church. What an inversion!

  191. Anais Nin:

    “When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow.”

  192. Fellow Traveller

    Well, it is not a real news flash if that’s what you mean. I would have made the same comment even were it not April Fool’s.

    By the way, would you happen to have any transcription skills? 🙂

  193. That’s very sad. Scientology is supposed to turn normal people into OT’s, not turn OT’s into squashed, burned-out, robotic victims!

  194. 2ndxmr,

    I agree — the mission holders conference was a huge turning point in the Scn track, a supprossive act of enormous proportions. The destruction of the mission network, which was the most vital, theta part of the Scn world, marked the beginning of the destruction of the church by the new regime.

  195. what great points, lunamoth. Your point about the relationship between the bullying story and the C of M story is a great observation. Quite artful on the part of CNN.

  196. I think he calls himself “the thing”

  197. Veritas,

    That’s so stellar! What did you say to her? I’d love to be able to paint the whole picture, with more details. 🙂

  198. War and Peace

    You make a great point Tim.
    Perhaps that’s why he is not seen live…

  199. As long as the coal continues to be poured on the fire of truth by the Indie’s, today’s little kids won’t have to be tomorrow’s battered SO members. The reason to continue this fight and not back down is to protect them, and our future selves, forever. So….don’t stop until we get THE COMPLETE PRODUCT of DM and his minions GONE and a total FIXING of the religion, or at least the freedom to practice it the world over. Your ass and mine are on the line if we don’t handle this. We were pantywaste dilletantes and DM knew it. He grabbed the power brilliantly. He absolutely outsmarted us all. He’s a freakin’ bold little brilliant monster who saw the weakness and human frailty in us all and jumped at the chance to rule the universe. We must’ve looked like a bunch of dreamy, big, soft and stupid “nice people”. Remeber from here on out: The price of freedom is constant alertness and constant willingness to fight back. I used to read those words and figure…”Ahhh, yeah…..I’m safe. I’m just fine. There are no threats here.” Famous last words 🙂

  200. It’s wonderful that you have a true group in Buddhism, WH, and that the leaders are so theta. If our Scn leaders had been as theta and had as much ARC, perhaps you would have been able to fullfil your needs within Scn and would have remained a Scientologist.

  201. Excellent point. Every program must pay for itself, the Ideal org program doesn’t. This is an important point and I’ll look for the reference, it exists. Messages get lost in this huge message section, I hope it dies back down. Hopefully someone sees this and knows that reference, I’d like to email it to friendsoflrh.org, they’d probably like it.

    Anyways, the LRH established building fund account is a program pays for itself and follows the idea of natural expansion, DM violates this workable finance system. HCO PL Financial Irregularities applies.

  202. Hey DM since you want to be considered like the Pope why don’t you at least do like the Pope did today and wash all the feet of the Int Base staff? I’m sure those locked up in SP Hall would love it. And it would be a first for you – showing some humility.

    http://yfrog.com/4rpopewashingfeetcobj

  203. ♥ Jessica!

  204. ” . . . A bunch of walking missed withholds . . . ”

    Great description of what those at the top of the org board have become!

  205. Revinimus,

    You ought to send that list to Anderson for the next round, if there is one! And also include such things like Nancy Many being driven to a psychotic break by OSA.

  206. VaD are you anti-Scientology?

  207. Archer,

    Your voice reads like someone I knew many years ago when I was on lines I won’t say who because I respect your privacy.

    You certainly have hit the nail on the head!

    The Int Base is definitely in the thrall of some dark angel, whether he was sent from hell or is part of some black op, doesn’t matter.

    He is the personification of the contagion of aberration. A monster creating other monsters.

    Another good reference here is the HCOB ‘How a Suppressive, Becomes One’.

    This is why none of look like they are anywhere near PT and their actions seem so insane.

    Aside from the fact that as you wrote their deeply submerged goodness is coming through by their “Glutz PR” actions.

    I know, they know better than that but maybe by doing this they feel they can leave of bread crumbs for Anderson to follow which he is doing an admirable job of doing.

    As the old saying goes AC is providing the rope and they are obligingly hanging themselves.

    I apologize for mixing metaphors but this is what I see, but would have noticed it if I hadn’t read your post.

    Ml

    RJ

  208. Connected, to who? Anyway.
    LRH would have never gotten even near such a situation in the first place, nor tolerated it within the Church. He would have done the standard on-policy and in-tech actions. No handlings would have been needed, no independent Scientologists would need to exist, because Scientology would run smoothly like it is suppose to.

  209. Fellow Traveller

    And speaking of artful. Remember the question on phones in part I? Well part IV being disconnection, methinks AC is quite the artist.

    We will see. Very soon in fact.

  210. No, it’s not the Intro to Scn video. It was of LRH in white SO uniform and cap, being interviewed.

    I don’t know that the entire interview has ever aired. I’ve only seen clips of a few seconds here and there, typically with negative voice-over from a narrator. But apparently, the interview lasted more than an hour. It would be interesting to watch/find the whole thing.

  211. How interesting. I did not know that.

  212. Nicely put, Dave!

  213. A bit off the track. But I heard Miscaviage does Karate. Anyone know what belt he has or if this is true?

  214. Boyd,

    Of course VaD is not anti-Scientology. I can answer that for him from having read all his previous posts. 🙂

  215. Doc you’re quick on the draw.

    I was going to make a similar comment but you got there before I did 🙂

    Does the following scene remind anyone of Int Base?

  216. Thanks, tone 41!

    Boyd,

    At this point I don’t concern myself with rightness or wrongness of teachings of Scientology.
    Subject of this discussion here is how was AC 360 Part 3 show, and how prominent dedicated Scientologists act. Point under discussion is saying “You don’t understand” as “universal solvent.
    If I were in place of Cooper I would have hard time and nausea talking to people with such attitude.
    Would YOU like to be treated like Cooper was treated?

    What concerns me really is the PEOPLE.
    Beings who are in or stick around.
    They display similar phenomena as those devotees in the show.
    How can I talk to them?
    How anyone on this blog can talk to them?

    Otherwise great people they are impossible to discuss subject of scientology and Church freely.

    So, is it being “Anti-Scientology, Boyd?

    If so, so be it.
    (Notre that I’m immune to being possibly declared an SP)

  217. wow! thanks guys.

  218. From my association with him the Karate Kid he is not. He does weight training and bicycling, at least several years ago that’s what he was into. If he’s into Karate, that is recent. But I doubt it.

  219. I stepped over to her and lightly touched her on the arm and said Hello and asked her what was going on. It was a TR1 placed right to her, the being. I don’t even think people around us heard what I was saying. She wailed her lament. I won’t go into the details of her upset, but I told her I understood, and I really did.

    We could do tech talk and say I indicated BPC (charge that had been stirred up but not as-ised, dissolved into understanding), and some directed 2WC (two way communication). Then when I saw her brighten in relief, I extroverted her attention to the environment (look at hose amazing spotlights, talk of the venue) (locational and havingness). And then she was all Thank you and grateful etc. Then when they walked away people who had been standing around rushed to me wanting to know what I did because it had started getting pretty escalated and shrill.

    I’m a CL IV and haven’t been in the chair for a while but one of my indelible eternal timeless awesome moments is when I was on on the HQS course and a “minor” process actually brought relief and joy and an epiphany to my course twin. That was it for me.

  220. Oh, the story has a cool part 2 also 🙂 The person I was with is not a Scientologist. Well, he was blown away and amazed, too. And he was pretty proud to know me (it was really a fun, uptone scenario!! and spontaneous.)

    So he started telling people how he had seen me quiet a baby on an airplane once (true, the baby had been crying for an hour and passengers were dismayed it wasn’t getting off on the layover). LOL The Baby Whisperer. lol

    Anyway, later that evening he originated something to me and told me he had never told anyone that before…and hadn’t even realized it himself. So, this was pretty cool because it was just safe for him to do that. Call it simple …and it IS. After all…thetans are simple fellas right? lol

    ahhh If only noone ever made fun of me for being so simple, I might be less complex today 😉

  221. VaD every post from you that I’ve seen concerns the wrongness of Scientology as it’s central point. What do you mean you’re not concerned about the wrongness? There are other websites for that.

  222. Boyd, I’m not attempting to answer for VaD here but your question to VaD prompts me to inject some input of my own.

    I know that for myself being for so many years in a church where everything about the church and its doctrine (the tech) is right and nothing is ever wrong (if anythng is wrong it is always the person who is wrong not the church or tech), being able to now explore the wrongnesses, has been incredibly beneficial. Indeed, I would even go so far as to say that it has been freeing. And, certainly not for everyone, but for many I think that looking at and pointing out the wrongnesses of Scientology is an important part of the healing process. Again, IMO, it’s about regaining one’s spiritual freedom.

    I don’t know about you Boyd, but for me, coming to realize the truth about my church that I have devoted my life to for many years, has been and continues to be, one hell of a roller coaster ride! Personally, I’m engaged in a constant process of fixing and unfixing conclusions more often than President Obama says, “Look.” In other words, what’s true for me right now might not be true for me an hour from now. And for anyone who frequents the blogs I post on I would suppose that they have observed this steady vacillation in my POV.

    Finally, I enjoy VaD’s posts and I am both appreciative and grateful for him sharing his perspective.

  223. tone 41, it seems to me that the mission holders conference and what happened there was a result. Another one of those discussions that we can have sometime could perhaps include thoroughly exploring what exactly was going on within the church prior to that event. How long was it in the planning and who really originated the plan? As you said, that was a suppressive act of enormous proportions. In ‘real’ world terms, it was a false flag 911 type of event.

    I look forward to the day when we have the COMPLETE (all the good, bad and ugly in tact)truth about LRH and the church i.e., the true history of Scientology. It may take a while but I do believe such a day will come.

  224. Guys as far as I can see you are not looking at this justice code in its historical context.

    You just don’t turn over someone to civil or criminal authority just because the state demands that you do.

    States or Government don’t always operate in the best interests of the people. This fact is obvious unless you’ve been brain washed by your civics lessons.

    The fact is Governments and States do get out of hand and the Church has always been the traditional buffer to the depredations of the State and Government.

    This is one of those basic things that makes a Church a Church. Just as maintaining the confidentiality of a confessional.

    Strike two out of two for the current Church.

    ( I know of several cases when the Church failed to protect individuals that were subjected to civil or criminal law, who were innocent of all charges, another story)

    Anyway, what the current Church is doing right now is using the ethics codes to cover up crimes.

    These aren’t just l’ enfant terrible’s crimes but include the crimes of some of their biggest donors.

    If you read to the end of the above High Crime PL Jim quoted part of you will find that anyone who is found guilty is supposed to be turned over to the authorities.

    This is in the actual policies!

    Case in point was Reed Slatkin.

    Many of us wrote reports on his criminal activities.

    The Church with the evidence available could have held a civil com ev on his sorry ass and turned him over to the SEC.

    But instead because Ol’ Reed was making so much money for the Church with his Ponzi Scheme they chose to ignore the reports. In other words look the other way until the SEC slapped the cuffs on him and frog marched him into history.

    So it isn’t the policy that is error but how it has been and is being *willfully misapplied* .

    (a high crime that is strangely absent from the current high crimes listed in the most recent books)

    For all you techies out there an example of *willful misapplication* would be endlessly sec checking someone who is in the middle of the non interference zone.

    To sum it up it is not the policy or tech that is in error but how it has been misapplied!

    For instance trying to pull withholds on someone who has out int or lists doesn’t invalidate the tech on withholds. It just seems to because you are doing the wrong action. No matter how “standardly” you are supposedly doing it.

    (welcome to the Golden Age of Tech)

    Get this point straight or you’ll go off squirreling like the “Church” is doing right now by trying to “handle” some imagined “flaw” in the policy or tech.

    What are called “unusual solutions”.

    Nuff said.

  225. Actually in the interview itself comes from ‘Scientology: The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard’ and the Ol’man comes out looking pretty good. He is very cordial to the newsman, doesn’t cut his com with things like “you don’t understand” or “I know the history Matt” etc. and in general applies ARC.

    If you can bear to watch the usual agitprop before or after the interview. You will see how someone should handle the press even if you know what kind of story they are going to write.

  226. 2ndxmr,

    Good assessment!

    Actually from my viewpoint at the time they had sown the seeds to their own eventual destruction with the Franchise Conference.

    That and side stepping the thorny issue with the GO by pretending it never happened and not calling a B of I and getting a proper postmortem done on what actually happened.

    Also you can look at Lyman Spurlock’s failure to wear his hat as well and allowing RTC to seize total control of the Scientology network and nullifying CST.

    Worse they allowed an obvious NCG with delusions of grandeur to assume the contrived and concocted role of “religious leader” through a power push (a suppressive act by the way).

    It seems only now the chickens have come home to roost.

    However, some of us ominously anticipated this day would come.

    So now here we are.

  227. martyrathbun09

    RJ, I agree with your assessment. In fact, I quite admire the Old Man here knowing what he was going through at the time. I know very well – having read all of the many thousands of FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) documents AND the thousands of NON-FOIA (documents stolen by the GO) documents covering the incredible government sponsored attempt to squash LRH from 1950 through the sixties.

  228. martyrathbun09

    RJ, Incidentally, I was onto Slatkin years before this blew up, but Der Fuhrer ordered me onto something “more important” which happened all the freeking time.

  229. Boyd,

    I can’t say whether VaD still considers himself a Scientologist, but from reading his posts (some of which you may have missed), I would be surprised if he doesn’t.

    What I can say from my own observation is that VaD thinks for himself and is clearly enjoying the exercise of the freedom to do so. And I think that “thinking for oneself” is part of Scn, at the least the scn I subscribe to.

    When VaD says “At this point I don’t concern myself with the rightness or wrongness of teachings of Scientology,” what I suspect he means is that he’s concerned with the truth and he’s concerned with justice, more than with what is or isn’t called Scientology. And I think that’s an excellent concern for a being to have. Not to mention that Scn’s future track depends on it being aligned with these two things. Truth and Justice.

  230. Monte,

    Very sane! Looking and evaluating are high on the scale. It sounds like you’re having a great time doing both. 🙂

  231. Monte,

    I share this sentiment. Remember the 3D engram running they did in S. Africa after the end of apartheid? I forget what they called it, but I thought it was such a sane way to run out the engram — let everyone tell their stories, establish the true history of the culture, and apply justice with no thought of retribution.

    I also want to know the full truth of our history. I want unembellished truth. I want to know all the pluspoints and all the outpoints, even if they belong to LRH. I also think it will come, but it will be a bit of a trick to sift the truth out of the PR.

  232. Veritas,

    I enjoyed this story very much. Isn’t it amazing how powerful the basics are? What you wrote reminded me of a set of LRH lectures called The Basic Auditing Series. I listened to it back in 1983 on the Basic Career Auditor Course, which included Happiness Rundown training. I was blown away by the power and beauty of the auditing comm cycle. That tape series remains one of my favorites.

    People can be anywhere on the scale of inertia to initiative (I guess that’s my own invention). It’s rare to see anyone take this kind of initiative with strangers. In each of the cases you described, you really applied your understanding of the basics to improve conditions for the people you helped. That’s what it’s all about.

    And hey, games consist of complexity, so it’s not always such a bad thing. But I’m sure you can choose to be simple any time you feel like it. 🙂

  233. Marty,

    Yeah it’s pretty incredible how we survived that period!

    I don’t we would have without Ron and Mary Sue.

    And despite all that was going on the Ol’man was able to complete his research.

    At least we still have the tech.

  234. I wouldn’t doubt that Miscavige misdirected you away from Slatkin intentionally.

    He has a knack for smoke and mirrors.

    I also reported on one of his real sweet hearts Greta Van Susteren. Per the PL she was an illegal PC because of her media and intel connections.

    Along with her main squeeze John (Send Money, Guns and Lawyers) Cole.

    What really freaked me out was finding out that
    Adnan Khashoggi and his family were honored guests at the FH!

    You know CIA’s top gun runner and one of the architects of the BCCI scandal.

    Just a sampling of the high rolling cretins he calls “patrons”.

    Anyway, my 2d and I fingered Reedy about two months before the excrement hit the fan.

    We had some good intel from someone who worked as his book keeper and knew about some of the shady deals he was making.

    They must have burned these reports before reading.

    Anyway ce’ la vive.

    Let’s just say I know what you were up against because we experienced it ourselves at lower levels.

    Corruption.

    That’s why we are here and they are going to hell.

  235. martyrathbun09

    RJ, He ordered me off of Greta too. One day I’ll tell the whole Adnan story; I was his host at the FH.

  236. martyrathbun09

    tone 41, The Truth Commission?

  237. tone 41,

    Yes, it is going to be a bit of a trick and tack some time to sift the truth out of the PR. Even so, I have no doubts whatsoever that it WILL eventually be done. Indeed, the sifting is already underway.

    BTW, tone 41, you inadvertently wrote the magic word…”sift.” It just so happens that the word “sift” opens up my philisophical chatter box. 🙂 See….

    Following is my analogy that serves as my description (in part) of where I have recently come to be. Of course, the analogy could change at any second but at this moment it is holding and I am expanding.

    The analogy is that of me being a prospector for gold where gold represents the truth. The truth, I have learned, is scattered all over the place and can be found in some of the most unlikely of places. However, one has to be willing to sift through a lot of dirt, rocks, gravel, sand and a sundry of other debris in order to isolate out the various sized nuggets of this incredibly precious substance. Sometimes, though, you get really lucky and strike a big vein or hit a “mother lode” but, more often than not, the accumulation of truth comes in the diversity of little nuggets picked up here and there along the way.

    When I happened to come across LRH, Dn and Scn many years ago it was like discovering a incredibly rich vein of gold. I soon realized that I had indeed hit the mother lode! And for a long while I truly believed that I had in my grasp all the gold there was to be had. It was required by the church officials that I cease any prospecting activities outside this rich vein as all the gold that I would ever require could be found here. Furthermore, the gold I would discover in this vein would be real gold not fool’s gold. I willingly agreed and I kept to my word. Well…I eventually learned that I was wrong about many things in regards to this rich vein of gold. It took a bit of time to sort that out but no regrets. I figure it was just part of the sifting process and without equivocation, I most definitely added an enormity of gold to my box at this claim. Gold that I very much needed and am very grateful to have in my possesion.

    Now here I am once again prospecting. I am finally free again to roam the universe with my tenacious and trusty burro, my pickax, my sifter and, can’t forget this…my trusty pan (just need a bit of water). I must say that getting back to the activity of prospecting for gold is such a joy for me! It is so much fun! And, as always, I learn as I go. One thing that I have become acutely aware of is the fact that what I see as gold is not necessarily what another might see as gold and vice versa. I have come to realize, on a whole new level, that truth and reality are most definitely a personal matter. But…that’s my gold. It might not be the next person’s.

    I have also learned that finding even the tiniest speck of gold in the most unlikely of places or mistakenly picking up some fool’s gold and thinking it’s the real thing are neither one to be discounted in value. For I have discovered that such experiences can affect your course in ways you would’ve never imagined and open doors you would have normally walked right on by without even a second glance.

    I used to consider that truth was something that was fixed and solid but the more I evolve in my considering I have come to view truth as something that is quite fluid and pliable. For a visual representation I see truth existing as an infinite set of concentric circles where it manifests uniquely in each circle and different from any other circle. Also, each circle is laminated i.e., each circle has many, many layers from where it begins and ends. And at each sub-layer, each gradient layer, truth is manifesting as a unique vibrational frequency. If my awareness is confined to only one circle that contains x amount of layers then I am aware only of the truth of that circle. But as I gradiently expand my awareness out into other circles I come to know other truths and the many layers of truth existing from each circle that I’m aware of build upon one another to form even another truth – a combined truth – that appears to run parallel to the concentric circles. Perhaps the combined truth could be called wisdom. No conclusion there, just supposing.

  238. Marty,

    No surprise there.

    Miscavige was just doing his job, i.e. working for the other side like he was probably paid to do.

    Adrich Ames compared to him should be a national hero!

    Any way on the lighter side.

    Do you know if the little twerp played golf with General Bill Odom when he was on the Board of Directors for ATG?

    🙂

    I’m looking forward to reading the Adnan story.

    Ml

    Robin

  239. “He grabbed the power brilliantly. He absolutely outsmarted us all. He’s a freakin’ bold little brilliant monster who saw the weakness and human frailty in us all and jumped at the chance to rule the universe. We must’ve looked like a bunch of dreamy, big, soft and stupid “nice people”.”

    YES AT THIS COGNITION

    I tried to tell you this alsoo.

  240. Oh paaaleeeze!

    You guys give Miscavige waaay too much credit!

    Yes true.

    You should never underestimate your enemy.

    But over estimating him is just is bad!

    Gawd!!!!

    Speaking of Gawd ( Miscavige’s spelling )

    I swear the next poster who assigns Gawd Like ability to this moron I’m gonna napalm!

    Here read the following on the wit and wisdom of David Miscavige:

    http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/veritas/mailings/sw-2-1.htm

    Sheeeesh.

  241. Monte,

    Wow, I loved reading this post of yours. I think the sifting you’re describing is what a philosopher does. Sifting — that’s even what it feels like when we hold many different datums and viewpoints in our minds and then mingle them together to see how they all rearrange themselves. Wonderful.

    I guess a sifter is one of our most valuable tools, something none of us should ever be without.

    And hey, I love the imagery of you wandering the galaxies with your burro, your pickax, your sifter, and your pan.

    But best is your description of the nature of truth and the nature of its discovery. This is deep.

    I’m going to save this post of yours. We’re getting kind of buried in an earlier thread, so I hope others got to see this. 🙂

  242. Thanks, Marty I think that’s it.

    Okay, I Googlged it, and here’s a cool reference:

    “The South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) was set up by the Government of National Unity to help deal with what happened under apartheid. The conflict during this period resulted in violence and human rights abuses from all sides. No section of society escaped these abuses.

    “The TRC was based on the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, No 34 of 1995 (pdf)

    “… a commission is a necessary exercise to enable South Africans to come to terms with their past on a morally accepted basis and to advance the cause of reconciliation.”
    Mr Dullah Omar, former Minister of Justice
    The TRC effected its mandate through 3 committees: the Amnesty Committee, Reparation and Rehabilitation (R&R) Committee and Human Rights Violations (HRV) Committee….more

    “The Register of Reconciliation gave members of the public a chance to express their regret at failing to prevent human rights violations and to demonstrate their commitment to reconciliation. . . ”

    Well, thanks to you and some other Indies we’ve mocked up our own Truth and Reconciliation Commision, haven’t we? Too bad those still inside can’t and won’t participate.

  243. I would sure love to hear more about this, Marty. Thing is, I would trust the data coming from you. I don’t trust any of the “data” we’ve been given by “The Regime.”

  244. This refers to the suppression from the government you learned about in the FOIA documents. The post wound up floating in the wrong place.

  245. Archer,

    It’s a little late, but I just have to say how much I enjoyed this post. Spot on !

  246. Tone 41, I’m with you on that, the basic are elegant beauty in action. They are to be used.

    And it’s not about, of example, in a public gathering I’m not going to start assessing an upset, but the Basics…wow. The results on a pretty noisy situation were enough to create that effect on *bystanders* as well, who rushed in and asked “What are you, what did you do etc?”

    Had the orgs been safe, I would have said check that out. I’m ashamed to say I had back off of saying it was Scientology because the word — thanks to the bufoons of Miscavology — so turns most people off, I hesitate to use it (like Love or God, those words also are easy MU’s).

    I’ll find a way to handle that.

    The tech is ours to apply. I had cut my own reach on doing that, which is why I shared this win with Marty and everyone here. There are fewer more wonderful feelings than to help, give relief, brighten a face where ever possible.

    you said:
    “What you wrote reminded me of a set of LRH lectures called The Basic Auditing Series. I listened to it back in 1983 on the Basic Career Auditor Course, which included Happiness Rundown training. I was blown away by the power and beauty of the auditing comm cycle. That tape series remains one of my favorites.”

  247. Monte, your words:
    “being able to now explore the wrongnesses, has been incredibly beneficial. Indeed, I would even go so far as to say that it has been freeing. And, certainly not for everyone, but for many I think that looking at and pointing out the wrongnesses of Scientology is an important part of the healing process. Again, IMO, it’s about regaining one’s spiritual freedom”
    – just parallels my own thoughts. I couldn’t have expressed it better.
    THANK YOU SO MUCH for your words of support!
    Your posts (here and in Jeff’s blog) have helped me to unwind my own “scientological” thought patterns to a vast degree!
    As I said earlier to you, my experiences, understandings and processes my mind has been going through are quite similar (if not the same)

    tone 41, you said:
    “VaD thinks for himself and is clearly enjoying the exercise of the freedom to do so…. he means is that he’s concerned with the truth and he’s concerned with justice, more than with what is or isn’t called Scientology”.

    I appreciate these words very much! This is EXACTLY the reason I’m here – reading and writing. This IS what my search of “dark side of scientology” has been about. Is there THE truth? If not, WHAT is truth?…

    Boyd, you said:
    “VaD every post from you that I’ve seen concerns the wrongness of Scientology as it’s central point. What do you mean you’re not concerned about the wrongness?”

    Boyd, I meant what I said. I AM not concerned…
    If you were trying to find some outnesses and inconsistencies with my previous posts, that’s your attitude. I don’t know why it bothers you whether I’m or I’m not FOR or AGAINST scientology. I thought we were NOT on “Scientology Message Board, Blog, or Forum”.
    I didn’t troll, didn’t offend you PERSONALLY. I just SPOKE MY MIND about subjects of discussion.
    So, I speak MY MIND. CAN I do it here? – I hope I can.

    LRH wasn’t the ONLY ONE who had his mind. I have mine. So I speak it.
    May be you don’t like it. May be it’s against Scientology ideas. May be it’s against the church. May be it’s far off what “LRH said…”.
    So what??? – Should I now drop my mind and give in to “what LRH said” in any and all of my life situations. Is that what you want? – Well, let me think about it… No! That’s my answer.
    Scientology is no more than a toll in my life.

    Your answers to my posts remind me of times I’d been going through when I’d been posting my messages on SCIENTOLOGISTS message boards, where from some of them I was getting similar responses. I don’t want to go through similar “necessity to tell where was it written by LRH?” any more.
    Can I speak my mind at least here – without being nuked, labeled, given names, evaluated or called to Ethics?

    Boyd, I’m SO tired of such while being in SO and in RPF.
    PLEASE, give me a break!
    Thank you!

    P.S. I’m open for open 2-way communication. It shouldn’t continue in this blog.
    We can discuss your beef with my “being disaffected with scientology” by email. Mine is: dolgov_vadim@inbox.ru

  248. VaD,

    You asked “Is there truth,” and “what is truth?” Big question! I won’t start opining on it here or I’ll take up Marty’s whole blog. Maybe we can put that on the agenda to discuss in our symposium.

    Hey VaD, where do you live in Russia? We were in Russia in 2001. We liked the Russian people we met very much. They were very educated and they seemed very much in valence. Many of them also seemed to be in despair. It would be interesting to get your viewpoint on this.

  249. Veritas,

    Yes, the word “Scientology” has been corrupted and we have to clean it up. I think one way to establish the difference between “Scientology” and the corrupt “Church of Scientology” is for real Scientologists to work to hand over DM’s head on a pike, to make a point of what Scientology is not.

  250. tone 41,
    those weren’t exactly the questions addressed directly to you. 🙂

    To you I’d say that I came to a thought that truth is simply information, facts – before and beyond influence of any considerations, postulates or ideas. It’s not opinionated. It’s what is (or can be) seen, felt, perceived… It’s a personal thing.
    It’s like the fact that right this second you are reading this message.
    And that’s what I think truth is.
    Truth is FAR AWAY from being right or wrong, good or bad, promising or ruining.
    The further and deeper we go into postulates, dreams, ideas, plans, into what we are told and heard, opinions, correctnesses… the farther we are from the truth.
    (Here I somewhat contradict to Axiom 38 which states that “Truth is the exact consideration” BTW, I don’t think that Axioms are truths unless I’ve felt it myself – like Newtons’s law of gravitation proved by “thing thrown up falls down” )

    Yet, this message doesn’t have truth in it.
    It will become truth on individual basis – when someone can connect it to HIS own observations/experiences and sees it as is.

    Something like that.
    It was just “thinking aloud”

    Re: Russia. Russia is a big subject. Moscow is not like the rest of Russia.
    I’m in Moscow. Here I teach people English.
    Your observations in 2001 were quite correct. I can see it myself.
    But – no matter how desperate we look internationally< how much deep shit is going on here, I LOVE my country, I love people, I love nature….
    And – now I'm NOT looking froward to change my habitat to the better. I accept it as it is. I love it as it is. May be it looks odd to civilized people. Well, Russis is all mine – good or bad, right or wrong.

    Thank you for attention to my posts.
    You are great terminal as I can see.

    Cheers!

  251. VaD,

    Well gee, I’m glad it wasn’t a listing question! 🙂

    Interesting that when you say, “It will become truth on individual basis – when someone can connect it to HIS own observations/experiences and sees it as is.” . . . that does connect it back to Axiom 38 , doesn’t it?

    I was in Russia with three family members, and we all loved it. We did observe that Moscow was different from the other places we visited in Russia. I was astonished to find that the Kremlin was beautiful. I had imagined it as a dreary, somber place. My favorite experience in Russia was a short concert of church music performed a cappella by a quartet of men. It was also a surprise, because I also expected that to be somber and it was not at all. It was ethereal and far above the human tone band.

    There was a very hip section of Moscow with a lot of artists and young people that seemed like the awakening of Russian’s spirit after much suppression. I don’t remember the name of it.

    We brought a gift to a woman in Moscow who was also an English teacher. Her relatives had asked us to deliver it. We took her out to lunch and she was afraid at first to enter the restaurant! We discovered that what had kept her going in a difficult life was music. She attended something like 80 concerts and operas every year, in both Moscow and St. Petersburg.

    I hope there is less despair there now, and I hope the Russian people are able to flourish and prosper.

    You’re a great terminal too. I love thinkers. 🙂

  252. tone 41,

    Sincere thanks for sharing your story!
    Unfortunately, when you live there you don’t notice things outsiders would see.
    Grass is always greener on the other side.. 🙂

    That street is called Arbat. It has always been that way.

    In 2001 I was in LA, working for Gold.
    But comparing now with 2003 (when I returned from USA to Moscow) I can see that things in general are getting better, and people in general are more friendly and less rude.

    Regarding your question: No, it doesn’t connect back to Axiom 38.
    And here is why. I have to explain it to you.
    Today, looking at people and keeping in mind your question, I had a cogintion.
    I’m here on this blog because I had doubts about scientology – NOT because I had doubts in the curent church. For me this church has always been emodiment of LRH’s vision.
    It’s later that found out about bad things happening at the top (fortunately, I didn’t get into that mess).
    Some things from LRH never seemed to make sense to me. They were n’t MY truth. They didn’t work for me.
    Couple weeks ago I reviewed preface of New Grammar from Key to Life. I crossed out LRH’s black PR, DAing, invalidations and evaluations of professors and grammarians, lies to get people buy that “New Grammar” thing – and what’s left that is full of sense and work for me was about 50% of the text.
    I wrote about Hubbard’s grammar because I work teaching people English for over 5 years. I know what is what. I know what is successful and what isn’t.
    I love my job. I am successful. Student like my lessons.

    Cognition is that one could be better off using what works for you in scientology, and crossing out what doesn’t work for you (isn’t your truth)
    and leave it at that.
    I mean one doesn’t HAVE TO press that scientology is always right.

    To reiterate, One’s Truth is being right or wrong.
    It’s what works.

    Axiom 38 “Truth is exact consideration” has never worked for me in writing up O/W.
    Part 2 of that axiom that said “Truth is exact time, place, form and event” made more sense.

  253. One’s Truth is NOT ABOUT being right or wrong.

  254. VaD,

    Certainly, we should all keep what works for us and cross out what doesn’t work (and what actually impedes perceiving truth). That’s integrity, it’s being true to one’s own perceptions and it’s the way to move on up higher (or at least part of it).

    So I admire you for evaluating for yourself, without the filter of “what we’re supposed to think.”

    What I was thinking it this: If something becomes truth when one connects it to HIS own observation/experiences, isn’t that like saying that truth is the exact *consideration,* as opposed to saying truth exists objectively, independent of a being’s consideration?

    About Russia . . . Yes, “Arbat” is what I was trying to think of. Has it really always been like that? Even under communism?

    By the way, we took a river boat cruise from St. Petersburg to Moscow. It was late May, close to White Nights. The countryside along the river beyond St. Petersburg was one of the most beautiful nature settings I’ve ever seen. And it was kind of amazing to go to sleep when it was still light outside and then wake up to a bright day. 🙂

  255. tone 41,
    I can’t help but answer your comm.
    I would like to go over this subject (considerations) further but I would rather have it outside of this blog since it becomes off topic here.
    Could you write me an email (address above in the last answer to Boyd H) or find me in FB – Vadim Dolgov?

    Answer:
    You see, generally I’m now in process of stripping off from myself the set of considerations which were “truths” according to LRH. I believed in them. They always prevailed in my “considering processes”.
    Now I would rather stay without any considerations than stick to some (even the greatest sages and Bible) That’s the degree of my desperateness to think for myself.
    Maybe you use another definition of “consideration.”
    I looked in Encarta. There is none of them in Encarta Dictionary or here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/consideration
    that I can relate to Truth.

    For me, truth is direct and precise Reflection, Vision, Perception rather than “the exact consideration”.

    To compound, it’s LRH who had great many considerations and named them “truths”.
    I subscribed to his truths. Now I’m working on unsubscribing (yet, trying to keep sensible pieces that are WORKABLE)

    I’ve got more to tell (I’m in progress of getting to live with the truths which Nature (not LRH) gave me originally).

    Old ArbatStreet has never been political place (as I remember). I’s always been cultural place. And no any “communism” has ever brought down creativity of Russians.

    May is my favorite month of a year. Everything becomes alive again.
    I can feel what you experienced in your boat travel. It’s lovely! 🙂 🙂 🙂

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s