Here is the latest intelligence from the anti-intelligence factory:
1. Jeff Webber – former Int staff member, and one time “friend” of several independents – is a covert card-carrying member of DM’s RTC intel ops corps. He is working for Herrs Sutter and Stahli.
2. Diane Wagenbrenner (used to be Bush) is a card carrying member of DM’s RTC intel ops corps as well.
3. Neel Smed is a card carrying member of DM’s RTC intel ops corps.
4. Ian Cunningham is a card carrying member of DM’s RTC intel ops corps.
5. After spending millions upon millions to examine every second of the lives of Mike Rinder and I over the past year, and having come up empty-handed on anything to even create a hiccup, DM has ordered OSA to have Mike and I framed. My prediction is that it will backfire more than anything has ever backfired on Miscavige. But, in keeping with my promise to keep my peeps informed about developments that might effect their lives, there you have it.
Oh yeah, think this all sounds too juvenile and beyond the realm of possibility in a civilized society? Consider what the RTC intel covert op corps has been up to lately.
Op I:
They put up a posting on Craigslist and EBay this past Sunday that announced an “Estate Sale” at the home of Mike Rinder the following day, that’s right Memorial Day. It read as follows:
HUGE (INSIDE) ESTATE-FORECLOSURE SALE-MOVING SALE (Tarpon Springs)
Address: 1316 Riverview Dr., Tarpon Springs, FL, Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 (map)
Description
Beat the heat and come inside. Property is under foreclosure and EVERYTHING MUST GO – ASAP. Our loss, your gain. If we don’t sell it today – we’ll give it away tomorrow
4 complete rooms of almost brand new furniture (Sofas, mattresses, complete bedroom sets, dressers, etc), kitchen full of kitchenware, 2 microwaves, 14pc Calphalon cookware, Camping supplies, never used 5 person tent & canoe. Jewlery & watches, grandfather clock.
Garage full of wood working equipment, drill press, tons & tons of Craftsman tools (some brand new ) including drills and routers, sanders etc. bolts, tools,WWP laser, Rinder probe, brackets, power tools, 4ft Craftsman tool chest with wheels and chocked full of mechanic tools and really anything any man has ever wanted. We have it. Even though my husband doesn’t want to part with his “toys” they have to go!!!
6 year Playboy collection 1981-1987 all in sleeves. 13 different Pool toys (our pool closed). Collection of over 9000 anonymous bobblehead dolls. Xbox & Wii with 38 games including Marblecake: The Game. This will certainly be worth the stop… come on by take a look and make an offer on anything! (this is a pet and smoke-free house)
Monday, May 31th 6:15 am – 7pm If Garage is closed come around in backyard by the pool. Do NOT come before 6:15am
Cash preferred. We will take checks only with two forms of ID – no exceptions.
1316 Riverview Drive, Tarpon Springs,FL 34689
off of Riverside Dr and Florida Ave., near downtown Tarpon. See you there.
After having had numerous people come to the door, starting with half a dozen waiting in the front yard at 06:30, Mike put up a sign that read:
SORRY, THERE IS NO ESTATE SALE AT THIS HOUSE.
WHATEVER YOU SAW WAS A “PRANK” POSTING.
WE ARE FORMER MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY AND ARE BEING HARASSED BY THE “CHURCH” BECAUSE WE HAVE DARED SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE ABUSES.
WE APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR INCONVENIENCE. IF YOU ARE AS PISSED OFF ABOUT THIS JUVENILE ACT AS WE ARE, WRITE A LETTER TO THE ST PETE TIMES.
If you have come a long way and need a drink of water or to use the bathroom, please ring the doorbell.
Some of the people that showed up had driven 50 miles for the “Estate Sale”. They were the ones who were really harmed. Again, the DMbots are making friends and influencing people in their inimitable style. Their actions are a study in how to create ill-will and PR area out of control.
Unfortunately for DM, Mike turns these pranks back on him with an insouciant flair.
Op II:
Finally, here is an “anonymous” email Mosey received today. One of many she has received from different handles using every angle conceivable to attempt to drive a wedge between us:
Mosey,
I have spoken to you in the past. I really like you and find you a
gentle soul. At first I thought Mark was right but the more I
listen and hear what he says the more I have come to understand
that he has some ill will about him that scares me. I have given it
much thought and contemplation and see that he is not of good
intent. I watched how he treats others with a false affection and
sometimes he is holding back from getting furious with some of us
when we don’t follow his guidance.
I watch how he uses you. He condenses to you in a very covert way.
He has done it with me but I have noticed it with others. He and
Mike have some agenda that nobody else has been let in on. Everyone
else, you and I included, seen to be somebodies that can be used or
assist in their game.
I am scared of Mark. I feel there is something evil about him.
I write you because I am concerned for you. I will not change my
ways with either you or him. I will keep an eye on you and help you
as best I can. Mark will hate me if I make myself known but there
are others who are also of the same frame of mind to one degree or
another.
Please keep your eyes open regarding Mark. Don’t blindly fall for
all he says. Something is not right with him.
Someone you have expressed your friendship for—me.
I end this piece with some advice for DM, from the Holy Bible:
Psalms 15
Lord, who may abide in Your tabernacle? Who may dwell in Your holy hill?
2. He who walks uprightly, and works righteousness, and speaks the truth in his heart;
3. He who does not backbite with his tongue, nor does evil to his neighbor, nor does he take up a reproach against his friend;
4. In whose eyes a vile person is despised, but he honors those who fear the LORD; he who swears to his own hurt and does not change;
5. He who does not put out his money at usury, nor does he take a bribe against the innocent, he who does these things shall never be moved.
Moving On Up a Little Higher 
Hey I just found out today that Ian Cunningham was regged on his freeloader debts by RTC Herrs Sutter and Stahli. They reduced his debits (freeloader debts) from about 200K to 1K.
What a deal for Ian Cunningham!! He signed all kind of paper for the Church and then went on spying for them.
Such desperation to be cause sure is an indicator.
If it weren’t so contrasuvival for others, these “ops” would make awesome plots for the Keystone Cops. Or Laurel and Hardy.
Thanks for the briefing.
(Being selfish, I’d’ve liked it as #2 from the Shack.)
Bruce Pratt
Marty, I hope Mike is taking legal action. From http://craigslist.org/about/help/abuse :
“Harassment, publication of personal information.
“If your personal information has been posted in a craigslist ad:
” – use our online form to report the issue
” – choose “harassment” from the drop-down menu.
” – put 911 in the subject field.
” – provide as much information as possible, including the posting ID number, keywords that might appear in the ad, and the specific craigslist city and category in which the post appears.”
Also, the following link gives the Legal Contact Info at craigslist. Might come in handy.
http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/subpoenas_and_search_warrants
This kind of harassment really should be documented and taken to the authorities. And preferably, announced broadly to the public as well.
Oops, I forgot, the new strategy from DM is to not only reduce the Freeloader bills from the former Int staff members, but to paid them off.
I know of someone (senior exec) who blew from Int at the beginning of the Year, got cleaned up (Sec Checksssss), got all his freeloader debts to zip and also got pay off over 25K by the church to keep his mouth shut by signing a load of legal paper (so it would not change his mind and could be sued for zillion of $ by the Church if it opened his mouth).
Versus the former strategy which was to SP declare, get him/her a Min 50K freeloader bill and give him/her $500.00 pocket money for service rendered.
So Marie JO and all the former IAS members your hard work and IAS donations are also paying for that new strategy.
Note to Mike R.
I know I dont have to tell you this, and I am sure you are aware of the importance to documenting things, but I hope you are considering that the harrassments are certainly actionable in court, given that they are deliberate and are causing, in the eyes of the law, intentional infliction of emotional distress.
I never thought I would say this, but I hope they keep doing it to you, and I hope you keep documenting it. Because, oh baby, DM and his classified ad terrorists are digging an expensive hole for themselves. Just the negative PR alone will cause them ever more lost revenue, let alone what you could extract from them in damages for harrasment and other such harm as allowed by the law.
It is clear that the Marx Brothers being promoted to COB would be a stellar increase in talent at that position given a comparison to the PT office holder.
Centurion (with apologies to Groucho)
Marty, Mike and all others that have put themselves out there. I so respect your courage.
The prank played on Mike is juvenile and irresponsible. The email sent to Mosey is evil.
And for this to come from a religion meant to lift people up…
That was a great response by Mike!
For the dwarf to be so obsessed with you & Mike I have to ask, what is he afraid of. That dude has to have the mother of all withholds.
note to dwarf: WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?
Mike, I think it would be great if you could show up at the Ft Harrison again and ask to see your son. I think that really freaks them out. Just walk around that area and look at the other Sea Org members calmly. This would drive him batty.
Psalms 91
10. There shall no evil befall thee neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11. For He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Marty, reading psalms has given me a lot of strength. The days for the dark ones are numbered!! They have been given two options. They either surrender now or……. Learn their lessons the hard way. NOONE can make his fellow beings victims without ending up a victim himself. Amen.
In many cases, these guys turned by Herrs Sutter and Stahli have something which the Herrs use which is from Battlefield Earth Psychlo tech – leverage.
Jeff W’s son is on staff at the FSO, similar to Mike’s. Along with totally arbitrary reduction of FL debt as you stated, Jeff opted to disconnect with his Independent friends in order to reconnect with his son and become Mestology controlled, very unlike Mike.
Ian had a wife and kid and reportedly dropped them in favor of reconnecting with Neel. He had a brother – Paddy who was in IAS at the ship, not sure if he’s still there.
The sign was perfect.
Wow! DM is digging his own grave.
Mike, great handling. I know how frustrating it is for you and Chrissie. Legal action is definitely the right way to go on this. DM has to pay the price heavily.
Thank you Mosey for being an amazing and loving person towards Marty. DM’s tricks will NEVER work with you, actually makes your relationship with Marty and your love for each other even stronger.
Thank you for all you are doing despite of all DM’s craziness.
Jeff Weber? This is so not his league.
Ian Cunningham. Figures. He’s in it because this gives him a chance to 1.5 around and oingo boingo with some of his erstwile vics. This game is really getting stupid.
ML Tom
Among the items for sale in the estate sale is a “Rinder probe”….
I guess this stuff is meant to enturbulate you so you do something stupid or maybe make an anrgy face so they can take a picture and make a website about it.
It’s just adding more to the pile of mistakes by the Church. When it’s all exposed and investigated it will be a PR nightmare.
Ian Cunningham to the joint Exec councils of the Freewinds Ship Org and Flag Ship Service Org regarding the retread of the upper bridge and switching emphasis from delivering LRH to delivering conventions:
“It’s a mind fuck, I know. You can’t think with it. But we’ve got to keep the bodies in the shop!” (emphasized by pounding on the conference table as he said, “keep the bodies in the shop”)
That’s whats important Ian? Keeping the bodies in the shop?
I’m sorry you’re still confused about this subject.
Ne
to the Moderator:
The page is still up on craigslist.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/gms/1768114992.html
I guess they’re too stupid to delete it. However, I’ve captured the entire page. If you need it for law enforcement, I’ll get it to you.
The thing that really disturbed me about the craiglist posting is that they included a photograph of two young children. This is very uncool. Law enforcement will not like this. If today’s climate of perverts (which I’m sure the dwarf knows a lot about) to post a child’s picture on a public forum is gross if not dangerous.
Was the craigslist ad intended to third party Marty Rathbun against Anonymous?
“6 year Playboy collection 1981-1987 all in sleeves. 13 different Pool toys (our pool closed). Collection of over 9000 anonymous bobblehead dolls. Xbox & Wii with 38 games including Marblecake: The Game.”
What an annoying little prick.
Mike, I am so glad that you remain exterior to this suppression. You are an amzing example of how to handle suppression. I hope some of those people who arrived do actually contact the SP Times.
Mosey, I am glad you aren’t falling for the BS. We all (I am sure I speak for many on this blog when I say all) love both you and Marty dearly and you have my complete support!
Mike and Marty, as usual they are causing distractons on your lines to keep you busy thinking you won’t have time to keep going after them; using the attack method, but it has and will continue to backfire. Great handling Mike.Again, don’t hesitate to call on us if there is anything we can do to support you.
What a terrible thing to do to people…fraudulent Estate sale. There is something wrong with people that do this. I find it disgusting. I find it immature too. Don’t teenagers do things like this? Do they think they are making themselves popular with people? Hell, I would have went and got some hot dogs and hamburgers and grilled for the people who came long distances. I do like Mike’s response.
The person that is freaked out that Marty (Mark) is “ill” and is using people to further his “agenda” is such a smelly load of bull.
All of this makes me look at the CoM and wonder what Super Midget is going to do when all his little plans and plots blow up in his face. His game will be over and he will have nothing to do except go to jail where he belongs.
Harassment is against the law. This really leaps over the line of tolerable and into the realm of lawyers.
They can do what they want. The truth is out there.
Meisha
I hope you don’t mind, but I grew up in a fundie Christian home with church three times a week growing up. No longer believe in the concept of blood sacrifice, but I do believe that the Bible offers so much advice for life and food for thought.
1 Corinthians 13:1 – If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Matthew 23:27-28 – Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Matthew 19:24 – Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
I could go on. By the by, the COS might be interested in thinking through their plans, remembering they’ve spent much of the past couple of years trying to trash CNN and the BBC, they might want to avoid activities that would add fodder for future reports. Just a free tip to the plants, since you clearly have the worst media advisors on earth or completely ignore them.
Well done, Mike!
I’d like to make a bid on those camping supplies … and what the hell is a Rinder probe … sounds painful 😛
Someone mentioned the idea that, what if some low level psychs or other nefarious group were watching DM and his activities in anticipation of a breakdown of sorts, whereupon he could be taken off for “treatment” of some kind. I wonder if this could really happen. If so, does he have anyone around him that he trusts enough to “watch his back?” What does he do for his own protection?
I don’t think this kind of activity is sanctioned under the 501(c)3 rules for tax-exempt non-profits…..
And he thinks there is a bridge they’ll let him get up not to mention his continuous overt and PTSness of working with them will allow any case gain anyway?
I don’t know the man but he is being taken for a ride to nowhere.
Yah it was. Takes a whole millisecond to see who is really at cause there.
One of Dear Leader’s (many) problems is an unfailing inabililty to estimate his enemies.
His intelligence sucks. For anyone to think they could 3P you to Mosey obviously doesnt have a clue and they are deaf, dumb and blind.
And if they think the juvenile pranks are going to make me beg for mercy — my only advice is “don’t hold your breath.”
Dear Leader doesnt know what to do. He is thrashing around like one of those nasty catfish you cut loose on the bottom of your boat, gasping for air and desperate to try and escape his inevitable fate.
He doesnt know what to do. Everything he tries turns into epic failure: PI visits, lawyer visits, family visits, “celebrity” visits, pizza deliveries, contacting friends and family, following us 24 hours a day, plants, attempted buyouts, DA packs, Freedom Mags and videos etc. etc. etc.
His last desperate act — when even he is convinced that all else has failed and he has nothing left — will be a lawsut — but Dear Leader knows what comes with that. He will have to testify under oath. We have nothing to hide so would have no problem. He, on the other hand, has big problems.
The pressure is being put on OSA to come up with something.
Heber once said “We are the anvil that breaks all hammers” — seems appropriate. We are not going away.
What a snarky email to Mosey. Were there generalities in there? Hmm….
Anyone who has seen National Geographic’s ‘Inside North Korea’ might find this quote from an anti-Marty site a disturbing parallel:
“COB RTC is the person who has single-handedly salvaged Scientology from potential external ruin, and single-handedly salvaged Scientology itself by holding the line technically, administratively, and on dissemination. Had he not been here and done what he has, Scientology would have been lost. There is no slightest doubt about that.”
Don’t think you have much to worry. You should laugh that off. Mosey knows you better. She won’t leave you and if she would, DM shouldn’t forget that there are fine independent women who might have lots of affinity for you, and you won’t be alone for a long time.
But there is one thing that is rather suprising to me. There are rumors that DM “bought” Broker and probably also Mayo into silence and inactivity. (But these are rumors, I’ve no idea if anything of this is true or all fabricated.) Nobody tried to buy you guys or your wives or girlfriends?
You think it OSA and not Anonymous?
Yes, and inviting all to just come around back for a hot dog. Complete strangers being invited into your back yard where the children are playing??!!
It could be someone from Anonymous, or someone from OSA wanting to make it appear it came from Anonymous.
Exactly right. You know, by posting the picture of the young children this could be taken as a covert threat against the children. Think about it. It’s saying they’re not safe, we’re watching them etc. etc.
I never would have thought the dwarf and cronies were low enough to put kids in a compromising situation but evidently they are that low. Makes sense though now that I’m thinking about it.
Law enforcement needs to know about this.
Is it just me or is there a secret DM mission on this blog and elsewhere, which has the purpose of turning Marty and Mike into Christians who give up being Scientologists and who give up using Scientology tech?
DM would LOVE to see that happen.
Selamat, we are Scientologists, we are getting strenghts from LRH technology, study, application, cognitions, and our own ethical conduct.
Doubtful it was Anonymous (too much detail of the property), but, they will be blamed.
This may seem petty, but there is a basic grammatical error that you, Marty, keep making. The objective first person is “me”, not “I”. You would say “for Mike and me”, not “for Mike and I”. The simple rule that I learned in elementary school was to eliminate the other person from the phrase and see if it still sounds right. Following the earlier example, change “for Mike and I” to “for I” and you immediately see that it is wrong. The bottom line is that if you say things like “for Mike and I” it sounds wrong and is bad grammar.
Anton, you missed the point if you detect I have any concern. I am letting folks in on the mindset of their Dear Leader.
He’s got a game that works if you believe that the Church controls your spiritual future. If you de-pts from that and are free, his game doesnt work on you out here.
All he can do is hire PI’s and try to enturbulate you or threaten to sue you, but you are the wrong guys to pull that stuff on. It’s just not going to work.
I think it’s over and we all just dont know where all the pieces will fall yet.
I was thinking earlier today that he was just going to wait it out. That would have been his best strategy, but even that wouldnt have worked. He has no moves left that will win for him.
Thats my analysis.
Actually, there are one that would win, and would determine if he is actually human.
He could resign and get his overts off.
Marty, whats your take on Mayo?
I’ve watched some old videos and stuff from him and he seems like a cool dude. When I came into Scientology (this life) he was Satan. If you found an old book with Mayo’s name in it, like a Tech Dictionary, it was like radioactive material. you had to burn it and then burn the ashes.
That he was trained and chosen by LRH to be Snr Cs and then declared is one thing that sems odd to me
Mike, I’d like to get your insight on the possible ways this could eventually come to pass. Do you see him ever relinquishing power voluntarily under any circumstances? Probably not. Do you see him ever being forced out by internal pressure?? Probably too risky and maybe even legally impossible to due complexity of corporate structure?? Or…do you think that this will truly go full-legal and and he will either do jail time due to the inurement issue, or even if no jail time, be removed for being convicted on state or federal charges?
It seems to me that no attempt at removal by force will work. It would actually have to go full-legal and go all the way to conviction to end this…and even then…who the he’ll steps in??? Maybe Marc Yager could do the job? Jenny would have to go for sure. Take out the SP and all his connections.
In the end, I still see most Scientologists who are under the radar right now being best served in a new, reformed C of S that gets back to it’s roots, as opposed to the future of scientology being that of independent scientologists.
I think right now the category of “intependent” is necessary because of the totalitarianism that exists in the church in PT. But in a reformed church, the independents would just be field auditors. And let’s say they DONT have to pay a percent of income from auditing to the reformed church either. They wouldn’t be “other” than the church. They would just be “other” than orgs, just like a field auditor is supposed to be.
Do you think that would be a staement of the goal of this movement? A reformed church that is back to it’s Source roots, delivering un-altered LRH tech and which any well meaning independent scientologist could, with good consience, participate in.
What’s your take on it?
I was one of the ones who quoted scripture here, and believe me when I say that the last thing I want to do is disseminate Christianity as an alternative to Scientology. LRH acknowledged truths in other faiths, and Marty and others have often posted quotes from many books and people who are inspirational and pertain to the subject at hand. And considering one of the recent posts made was on a COS strategy to effectively disseminate to Christians, these quotes do much to show how far they have to go.
mjrinder,
Your’e one cool cat!
Create, create, create, create, he’s about to crack.
Thanks to you and Marty’s determination this nightmare will come to an end.
Were the pics of Christie’s kid? Or just two random kids?
Marty, if you don’t know, “Marblecake” and “The Game” are sort of inside-jokes for people who go to the website 4chan (which is where the teenage group “Anonymous” comes from)
Therefore, this is either:
-An act from Anonymous (it’s possible–they’re not just anti-CoS, they’re also anti-Scientology. But I don’t see why they would attack someone attacking the CoS)
-A framing of Anonymous
This is as real as it gets… I do not know about rumors about Mayo and Broker Inc but I am aware of few eX con who were and are pay off to shut the F… up such as Ian Cunningham, Neel Smed Jeff webber who were “paid off” and promised to go back up on the “Bridge”. Additionally spy for them.
PS: You can also read my comment about the new Strategy implemented by DM for the current, new and future staff blow from Int.
Little they know that they have been duped.
Random. Not mine.
Anton,
Read The Way to Happiness again. The Precept on religious beliefs. Yes, I am a Scientologist and I recognize the beauty of the quoted Psalms passages and the TRUTH in them.
You’re new to this blog. I hope you get its drift…up, to something a little higher.
Selamat’s post was perfect and I’ll apologize to her for your remarks, once. I don’t think there will be need for a second time, right?
Damn Redneck! Mind? Hell no!
You a preacher too? That is way cool that you know Christian Scripture that well.
It took me getting a Scientology education to really appreciate what my mom and church (Anglican) were trying to do and how they were attempting do do it.
They were admirable. So are you, preacher man. Even when you ain’t preachin.
Bruce Pratt
Are you OSA?
Trying to shift these actions on to another?
Creating conflict where there was none?
What’s up with that?
RT,
Perfect quotes. And, the ‘media advisor’ is David Miscavige, the worst on earth, and apparently these fools executing his program daren’t ignore him.
There is a point where stupidity crosses over into treason. His dupes listed here, have crossed the line into the dark, inky, black. Code of Honor breaks don’t rest lightly.
Hi Hohotai,
How is my grammar. Can you please check my posting.
I love grammar buffs. So precise.
Thanks
T,
It’s a violation of public policy. That don’t fly in the long run. Maybe DM’s run is done, and very short at this point.
Ne you say. (Unresistable)
MF is darned accurate from a VSD view point.
Bodies in the shop are grist for the condition 1 registrars. That is probably the simplicity of it.
Bruce Pratt
Marty & Mike,
Thank you for informing us on what’s going on and keeping us briefed.
Knowledge [√]
Though I had NOTHING to do with those situations, I hereby take FULL RESPONSIBILITY, according to LRH in Advanced Procedures & Axioms and .
Responsibility [√]
I will then be able to exert some control over those situations.
Control [√]
With each Independent doing this little K R C exercise, we should be able to help you grandly.
► In the Spirit of Play:
We could post an Estate Sale of DM’s motorcycles, Mercedes Benz’s and the lavi$h RTC building, on Craig’s List … 🙂
Post DM’s cell phone # too.
I don’t know the address, etc. , but you and several others do.
We could auction DM’s toupee on eBay (he he he) 🙂
May the fun begin.
Spirit of Play 🙂
Guess he didn’t need those 7,000 sea org members to help him. They were just getting in his way I anyway. All those pesky sea org members who just didn’t understand his hidden data line.
Those little peons who didn’t know that when LRH defined an F/N and said “No other definition is correct” that he actually meant “except for DMs 3-swing definition”.
Or that when LRH said that expanding into territory which cannot be easily held and which exceeds existing demand is over expansion, he really meant that orgs should buy GIANTt buildings they have neither the staff nor public to fill.
Or when LRH said that bypassing creates Danger conditions and keeps orgs small he REALLY meant “RTC should run Int, Flag Management, all Conts and Sea Org orgs”
Or when LRH said to never use lies in PR, he REALLY meant don’t do it unless you are REALLY pissed off.
All those stupid sea org members just make COB overworked by not ever soon their jobs!!!
That must be his reality to put himself up there the way he does.
There is a great deal of wisdom in christianity, and a message of love and hope. It lacks a technology that works beyond that. Scientology and christianity are not mutually exclusive, not two sides of a gpm. You can take the examples of christianity as motivation and apply the technology of scientology as solution.
IMO.
“oingo boingo with some of his erstwile vics”. I havent a clue what that means, but I understand what you are saying!
hohotai,
Thank you for letting us know that you are hung up in significances.
Pack man, I take you are joking. I don’t condone using his tactics or playing by his rules.
Oh huge pay offs have been available for years, to those who really have the goods on them.
I don’t doubt both Mike and Marty could have been quite rich had they chose that path…
Dude. Are for real?
Marty,
Yes, I am joking and kidding.
Victoria. You speak sooth. Neither Marty nor I (hohotai take note) would take their filthy lucre nor “deal” family relations for our silence.
Yea, I tend to agree that it may be a bit to sophisticated(?) to be osa, I cant imagine them being allowed to read 4chan enough to accurately duplicate the mindset. The very concept of marblecake is probably beyond the tolerance of someone getting regular sec checks and not allowed to masturbate.
glfdoab,
What’s really pathetic is that it could be either one. Pick one, it’s the same as the other. That li’l item is a Goals Problem Mass.
DM & DM-bots,
By the way, I would like a large pizza delivered to my home please.
Cheese, peperoni, mushrooms, green peppers.
No rice and no beans.
Thank you.
Nope, not a preacher. Just grew up in one of those churches where kids were expected to memorize a Scripture a week and then sat through 30 minute-or-more sermons on more Scripture three times a week for most of 17 years. And they were very fundamentalist, so they believed in long debates over the exact wording. Which incidentally is very helpful as I learn how to word clear.
I am very grateful for my upbringing, which taught me a lot about ethical living and leaves me longing for a spiritual home full of like-minded people. The lack of like-mindedness with my own beliefs was actually a lot of why I left, but it would be nice to think that sane alternatives will and do exist.
And thanks for the vote of confidence. 🙂 Very appreciated.
Last summer Mariette and I spent a couple of real fun days with Ian Cunningham and Neel Smed at Neel’s place north of Copenhagen. Ian had not been in contact with anybody from the base for a decade and somehow connected with me over art. We had a huge number of laughs together and Neel was gracious enough to let Mariette and I have her bed. Ian slept on the couch and Neel slept in her computer/spare room. The final day Geir Isene flew down from Oslo just for the day to meet us and ask questions about what was going on at Int. Geir was working on his Doubt formula at the time and we filled in tons of data for him (he had written up a list of 50 topics/questions) and we sat and spoke for hours. Ian spoke the most of anybody and was on a continual roll about DM and the abuses at Int. This was not a person who was about to be brought back into the fold. Not if he was thinking with his big head, anyway. Unfortunately, he was/is thinking with his little head and after Neel was turned by Hansueli, Ian followed right behind. That’s what’s going on with Ian.
Ho-Ho-Tai….
With a name like that??…..really??
If you’re going to say Mike and me,it sounds like you’re 5. Mike and I wrong? I don’t know about that, I just don’t know about that.
I found the attached document on the freezone. David Miscabbage was in control then.
http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_jmayo1.htm
I’m open-minded about it being either the CoS or an Anon until there’s evidence one way or the other.
Thanks, Jim. I love you too.
One of the ads is still up. It may be worth a try to get the details from Craigs list on who this a- hole is.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/gms/1768114992.html
Dear Shelly Miscavige and Office of COB staff,
You are likely all gentle souls. But the more I see the demented and evil actions orchestrated by DM, I have come to understand that he is a man of ill will. I have thought about it deeply,
I have watched how he pumps up a staff member
who is a PET or FAVORITE for a while but it is FALSE AFFECTION and sometimes
he holds back from getting furious, other times
as you well know he cannot CONTAIN his rage and beats and punches and assaults covering frightened SO members.
Many fear DM because he is DEMONIC. I worry about you. There is something EVIL about him.
I am concerned for all of you. I will help as best I can. DM will hate me if I make myself known but there are others who are also of the same frame of mind to one degree or
another.
I am watching how he uses you, especially Office of COB staff. I watch how he uses you. He condenses to you in a very covert way.
He has done it with me but I have noticed it with others. He has some agenda that nobody
else has been let in on. Everyone
else, you and I included, seen to be somebodies that can be used or assist in their game.
There are many that fear DM. I feel there is something EVIL about him.
Don’t blindly fall for all he says. Something is not right with him.
I write you because I am concerned for you.. I will keep an eye on you and help you
as best I can. DM will hate me if I make myself known but there are others who are also of the same frame of mind to one degree or
another.
Patronus Capitalus Maximus Humanitarianuses
Seeing as we’ve descended from the sublime to the ridic… *cough*.
Mike and I went to the beach.
DM gave some cheese to Mike and me.
Both are correct. The quick test is as Ho ho tai said: delete “Mike and” from both sentences and they’ll feel right.
I see, Redneck Thetan. I rather would read more LRH quotes than bible citations on this blog. Besides the C of S, there are not many places we can turn to.
Scientology has a momentarily a bad reputation (thanks DM) but our history isn’t remotely that bad as that of the Christians. I am glad that your idea wasn’t to disseminate Christianity instead of Scientology but some posters on this blog evidently try this, and my question is if this is an OSA strategy or if just some nutty guys are thinking we’re throwing away HCPLs and Bulletins and exchanging them with the bible.
Think about this: if we slip away more and more from Scientology and the tech, e.g. when we try to solve out problems no longer with LRH tech but rather read the bible to find a solution to our problems, DM got what he wants: a bible club instead of on-tech and on-policy Scientologists.
Nothing against Christians but they got their own forums. I come here to read about Scientology, LRH tech and not the bible.
The guy who tried to 3rd party Marty to Mosey most certainly wants her rather to be a Christian than a Scientologist. In his eyes, she is not a Scientologist as he didn’t approach her like one.
I truly believe that there is a concentrated effort that should make us back away from Scientology and rather turning to Christianity.
It would make DM so happy.
And another thing that we should be watching is hatred and name calling that creeps into this blog and makes everything negative like the natter boards. As lower the postings are on the tonescale as more likely uptone Scientologists and other good people will turn away disgusted.
It might be another strategy against the Independents to have posters pull down the tonelevel of this blog. We can express our outrage against DM without calling him a dwarf. Marty never did it. You never did it but others do it all the time. Invalidation of appearances has no place in Scientology.
Scientologists never made fun of bodily problems. Not even about DM. Calling him a dwarf is the enemy line. It is a term that anti-Scientologists coined. What we are concerned about is his WAYS not that he is a short man.
This kind of behavior harms us and this blog a lot more than DM and I believe that these posters do intent this.
Marty publishes also postings he doesn’t necessarily agrees with but perhaps he should put down some rules in a posting or in a shack video.
Nobody wants the uptone Scientologists break away and the lowtone people come over.
Joe,
I am not one of those plants.
Anton,
I think it is just you.
Thanks for the info. I guessed this was the case about Webber while back and emailed about it if I remember right. Not surprised one bit about Neel and Diane either. Ian, a bit more, but there you go. The mail to Mosey reeks 1.1 at a whole new level! I guess this is the point about being an independent — and I don’t mean independent as a membership to a group — I mean independent thetan or viewpoint as LRH talks about. If you’re really there and observe and use the tech, you’d never fall for anything like this. Idiots! The tech will protect those who use it. Quite simple really.
Yeah, there are others with bigger payoffs and signed gag orders, still controlled by Mestology.
War and Peace, Brilliant!
Heather,
I knew you’d not like that one. Still, you agree it could be either or in this case. I know you love me, it’s mutual.
I would expect someone that deep in a Games Condition to also watch the effect he has created. Therefore I would not be surprised if some of the persons who came to your house were his agents.
It might sound paranoic, but I would also check the bathroom for bugs.
Have some humor for desert: “The definition of a persistent FN is one that goes 125 times back and forth, not one sweep less. No other definition is valid. – The Routing Form for hypnotized auditors can be picked up at the IAS-Office.”
9000 Bobblehead dolls?????
A Rinder probe?????
I hope you find the slimeball who did this.
And to Marty: 3rd partying a 2d is about as low as it gets.Gutless,absolutely F’ing gutless.
I say its damned near time to go on the offensive.
How about an Open letter to DM from “Friends of Ron” in the mass media as an all out blitz.Something that every Scientologist may be exposed to.
We’d have to be careful not to expose ourselves to slander but by applying the dissem drill and keeping it real we could create a hell of an effect!
I may be just brainstorming here but damn I’ve never been one to sit back and go effect.
This SOB has destroyed my Church and caused immeasurable pain to decent caring folk,
I say its time to get sudden!!!!!!
I sure wish DM would stop messing with your lady, Marty.
That shit ain’t cool.
The letter to her is a freakin’ joke and yet another full reversal of the actual scene.
IO
That of course would be libel not slander.
I rushed the post a bit as I have a big button on injustice and have never backed down from any man or any thing and am not about to start!
I think it would be possible to get a restraining order on the CofS because of the stalking harassment and threats.
Well said. We have the tech to handle anything. If they believed in the tech they would know that.
I had a crush on Ian Cunningham’s Dad. I don’t think he would be proud at all about Ian’s contributions to an abusive or suppressive system. I hope Ian manages to escape.
I’ll play. hohotai, as far as I know that’s a little known dialect of the northern Japanese islands. In fact, it is supposed to be tohohoai. That is, when you are translating to the Amercian English. Is otai though, we be amused.
Packman the economy is down. I was thinking to help out the Int Base by running a “hiring” ad like people used to do in the old days for staff. I was thinking of sending people to the job fair that is going to be held at the Int Base that I can mock up. Let’s do something constructive not destructive. Remember, maximum creation minimum destruction. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Let’s help people needing work to get their applications in at the Int base and respond with kindness.
And I do believe they do not discriminate with hiring at CC INT or the Int base.
An Open Letter to OSA Int
A brilliant Star Trek episode involved a computer that was installed on the USS Enterprise and was responsible for the protection of the Enterprise. In a mock attack by other Star Fleet Ships, the computer on the Enterprise went berserk and fired on and destroyed another Starship. The rest of the fleet pulled back. Spock and Kirk tried to stop the computer, but it fought back. Finally, Spock used logic and asked the computer what its purpose was. It replied “The survival of the USS Enterprise.” Spock asked the computer what Command was going to do. The computer told Spock that Command would probably send all of the fleet after the Enterprise and destroy it. Spock agreed and said: “If you continue to defend the Enterprise and Command sends the entire fleet, then it is you who is destroying the Enterprise and so you must destroy yourself.” The computer agreed and shut itself down thus saving the ship.
As an aside they found out that the creator of the computer recorded his own mind as the program. Spock asked him if he allowed engrams into the program and the creator said: “Oh my gawd, that’s why it was so reactive.” I’m telling the truth here.
HCO PL 13 March 1961, on his birthday, LRH wrote DEPARTMENT OF OFFICIAL AFFAIRS. In the PL he said:
“The department of Official Affairs exists as an extension of the Office of the Continental Secretary. Purpose: The bettering of the public representation, legal position and government acceptance of Scientology.”
I don’t think this purpose is being realized at this time. CNN, FOX News, BBC, SP Times, Village Voice, New York Times and on and on are on a growing list of C of S enemies. The Australian Government is trying to close down Scientology there. France wants Scientology out of France and Germany is real close to closing us down. You can’t get a job in Germany if you are a Scientologist. Church PR sucks all around the planet. Italy is now pissed at you for the “secret documents” and had to raid your offices. This is not the end of that flap.
So flunk, report to cramming.
Why is all of this bad PR happening? Because the Church is on the attack and making enemies of the press and governments. You guys are doing this in lieu of implementing LRH policy. Plus you got the wrong definition of offensive in “PR is offensive”.
Later in the same HCO PL the man that wrote your purpose said:
“Although this department may appear to have the third dynamic as its target, it does not in fact, handle anything but INDIVIDUALS.”
Triple flunk on that one. Did you handle Anderson Cooper as an individual? Not the way LRH would have liked you to. And I am not just talking about AC. I am talking about the rest of the reporters and government officials you attempt handle. It’s like Scientology no longer exists and you are using old Nazi techniques or something.
You can drone on endlessly that it is Marty and Rinder who are doing the attacking and causing the bad press situation, but the problem is actually much, much deeper than that. The problem is that the Church of Scientology is making enemies on a daily basis. It is a fact that a lot of enemies are being made by IAS regging, Super Power regging, and the heavy ethics that blows thousands of Sea Org members out and making public abhorrence of Scientology. The Church of Scientology, which is supposed to be the most benevolent, the most compassionate and understanding church in the world is working overtime making enemies.
You can brush this off all you want with “Marty and Mike are SPs and were holding the church down and the Church is better off since they left” and all of those lines, but those lines are as transparent as glass. The entire field knows that the stats are DOWN and continuing to go down. They are starting to really spot the bullshit when they go to events and see actors filling the empty seats and DMs “straight up and vertical” horse-crap being dealt. You can’t make OTs and go on with bullshit because the OTs you make
are going to spot the BS and walk.
“The only thing you can be upbraided for by students or pcs is ‘no results.” Reference KSW #1. If delivery stats were up right now and rocketing, I would be on your side helping you attack anyone and everyone who naysays, but the delivery stats are IRRIDUCIBLE MINIMUM for more than 20 years and they are still going down. Hence attacks from all quarters.
If you still believe in LRH then apply stat management and quit justifying the depleted international delivery stats while the ship is still afloat. Use your skills to defeat the Chairman. He has gone nuts and you know it. How can dozens of witnesses be all lying? Are these people all SPs? If so you are going to have most of your field declared.
It was inevitable – when you make OT VIIIs they can see and they will see all of the outpoints and leave the Church. It shows the tech works. If you don’t believe that, then why are a lot of OT VIII’s leaving? Out tech? Okay and good, then let’s look into that. But I know of at least 40 OT VIIIs that have quit. Are they all SPs? Are they all out tech? Okay then who caused the out tech? Not Marty or Rinder. Think about it.
The reason for my Star Trek story above is because OSA Int is analogous to the computer on the Enterprise. The chairman has fed you with Black Dianetics. You think you are doing the right thing, but you are destroying the “Enterprise” – the Church by forwarding the lies and the Black Dianetics.
Danny Divito said it in the movie “Other Peoples Money”. He said “Lawyers are like intercontinental Ballistic Missiles; they have theirs and we have ours. We launch them on each other and what’s left is nothing but wasteland.” Is that what you want? We are huge now. You cannot defeat us because all you have is intimidation, goldenrod and disconnect and we could give a shit about all that now.
There are more than 15,000 of us and we are growing exponentially daily. To folks in our field, Marty’s blog is better than any TV show and they avidly watch this blog on a daily basis. It is real easy for us to “recruit” right now. I recruited 6 Scientologists today who are pissed and want change. All we need to do is find them. Sending people to Mike Rinders house for an Estate Sale is not only juvenile, but it is weak. And if that’s the best you can do, then all I can say is “zowie”.
OSA – grow some nads and launch the palace coup. I know you thought of it because it is the right thing to do. Do it for the sake of mankind. You know what to do. If you are too afraid and too PTS, then raise your confront. Otherwise we will just keep “tightening the noose in a workman-like fashion.” until you see the light.
Tom Martiniano
Anton,
Even for an OSA troll, that harangue is boorish.
Anton,
The difficulty of being a troll is you live under the bridge. You sure aren’t on it.
That was chilling War and Peace!
Sounds much more believable the way you fashioned it.
FN,
Hah! A question though; does the robot, er, auditor have to count them all before End Of Session?
In relatively recent times, having DM crimes to report and INT base horror stories one witnessed gave you a parting bonus of $30,000 to remain quiet and sign papers that you would not tell.
It has gone up to a $40,000 pay-off this year.
But you must promise to be muzzled and gagged.
The pay off isn’t altruistic.
The pay off is to buy silence to cover up the crimes.
Ahhhhhhh the dirty secrets, the dirty hands, the dirty deeds…..
Indeed Mike and Marty could not be bought.
Virgil Samms,
You ARE a Lensman!
hohotai,
I left that ‘of’ there jus’ for oo. Otai?
Tom,
This was absolutely brilliant!
Marty,
This oughtta be on your front page. It is powerful.
IO
Right on Virgil! You rock buddy!
What you need to do is print out a couple hundred copies of that and send it to every Org and OSA office on the planet!
If it puts the seed of doubt into one member of OSA it will be worth it, but I think it may do a little better than that!
As we used to say on the Oilrigs,”GO HARD!”
Funny you should mention it. I was wondering what leverage they might be holding against them
Excuse me, but isn’t it a crime to give a payoff to someone to get them to agree not to report a crime; and isn’t it a crime to get a payoff to agree not to report a crime? How is this being missed as a lever in?
Any time someone posts something that smacks of “holier than thou” it gets pretty boring.
Red Neck Thetan,
I for one appreciate and learn from these.
Just to let you know, I kind of thought of you as one of our own, you know? I find you have better understanding of what Ron said than many “in” But even if we don’t fit for the likeminded house, then I sincerely hope you find it. Mean time we are here for you and I know I speak for the majority on this, any scriptures, philosophy, treatise, science, etc that contains truth and or is uplifting is welcomed here, as you always will be.
Tom, one correction. You wrote The Australian Government is trying to close down Scientology there.
The Australian Government is trying to shut down neither the Church of Scientology nor the philosophy (if such a thing were possible). A good number of elected representatives ARE trying to ensure that the Church of Scientology is held accountable for the crimes and abuses of the past, and that they are pressed to stop committing crimes and abuses now and in future. The specific mechanism of challenging the income tax exempt status of the organisations is designed to get exposure of the crimes and abuses and to withdraw the tax exemption that supports the abuser.
But aside from that, excellent post!
Re latest news and Intelligence and tactics by DMs mod.He is loosing it , to go this far to have to falsly advertise sales of property to erase the convert /overt operations, basically all he has done is given more evidence of the situation M.Rathburn /Mark Rinder hope what they advertised is documented and turned over to the authorities with hoepfully videod proof for investigation adding to the on going investigation, basically DM has made it quite clear what is in his mind and intent.He is more than digging his own grave.
Does any one have actual emails within the network, thats impossible to rely upon thow .
because any and all communcation will have be restricted. and with limited movement aswell
using,Well done in Intelligence so far , need more support for that .
“You can’t get a job in Germany if you are a Scientologist. ”
Totally correct, especially when you have some years you worked for the Church in your CV.
I totally agree.
Marty, thank you for all your hard work and for giving us several FDSs. I feel with you and Mike as well as Christie and Mosey. The handlings from the CofS and their staff are disgusting and are lacking any good PR, good manners, simple human decency. These stories are nothing I would be able to identify myself with at all.
BUT
I would like to bring something up here. I have been reading this blog now for several weeks. I think it is right to make all these occurrences known. This helps to understand what we do NOT want and what we feel is wrong. It is definitely an explanation for what we all have experienced and helps us to blow down on this matter.
But what about the things that we want? The future?
Isn’t it that we are getting what we put our attention on? Isn’t the power we have to mock up a bright future?
I think we should also start making up our minds. Do we want DM just disappear – one way or the other? But then? What is our mock up?
I believe that we need to use the powers we have and postulate the future.
I think it is time to create our common reality.
Let us start with the joy of creation and find out what and how we want the Tech to be available for everybody as LRH intended it. It starts in our minds and then it will become reality in the MEST universe.
I believe we have to start doing that too.
Felicitas
Bl**dy hell. That’s all I can come up with for this sort of mad endeavour.
One thing I have noticed though – is DM related in any way to the guy who did the voice for the cartoon cat Sylvester (the puddy-tat who was always after Tweety-Pie)? the similarities between DM’s Quasimodo-like lisping and Sylvester’s is too uncanny to just be a coincidence…
These tactics of “pranking” and “framing” are foolish and dangerous. Playground mentality on a sick and twisted scale. I’d hate to have that much venom in my head.
First,
You asked Mike, not me but since not very long ago I faced a similar vicissitude, I took the liberty to share my opinion with you.
On the one hand you have all of LRH’s originals, and advices, such as what Chuck keeps referring to, and the structures and organizations and now even buildings and resources. But most importantly the actual people of good faith within the church. Most of us here know it is the great majority of staff and parishioners who being very sterling individuals pull off miracles and manage to deliver some wins to enough people to keep them standing INSPITE DMs cross orders and perversions. But the lot, all of the good things listed above are under the complete control of this mad man, and his dramatizations. If you read KSW#1 carefully, LRH describes the process of group think and how insane a group will go in order to perpetuate the Bank.
On the other Hand you have people who are not PTS, did get Scientology and will do whatever it takes to use it in a non suppressive fashion, as is their human right. Further they will risk much to make it safe for others to reach for it outside of the domain of the SP. But without full access to all of LRH’s originals, and advices and structures and organizations, just with what they have learned and gathered and preserved over the years.
At first to me, reform seemed the most pro survival idea, so that LRH work would not go to waste, and mainly having in mind, the good people in. But then I looked at the Catholic Church and its bloody history, its gross demonstrable alterations of their scriptures, their mis-use of the position, the inquisition. Though it has splinter into thousands, it remains the single largest and most powerful Christian Church 2000 years later. It is a much more benevolent version of its early self, and it certainly has much to offer still. Obviously, but in spite of the horrid suppression it spread, the black PR it both endured and spewed, it is still going. I too think Jesus might not recognize it, however it has enough truth in it to fulfill some need for people who follow it. I truly think the great majority of Catholics are also very decent people, but they probably could not recognize Jesus if he knocked on their door.
Just like many well intentioned Sea Org Members and Public, might not recognize LRH if he came knocking on their door (Proven by the way they fail to demand Policy be applied, regardless of consequences)
So my point is, just from KSW and the precedent of the Catholic Church, I think Mestology might be around for a long time. It deals in just enough truth to hook one that badly.
But Scientology needs to be applied. Real OTs who are not PTS are badly needed, and the best way to safeguard and guarantee Scientology will be around is to use it to its fullest, now. The world beat a path to LRH when he first made it available, it will beat a path to us as well, if we use it.
Truth has an amazing way of tearing down barriers. Those inside Mestolgy who truly want what we offer will find a way to get to us. So it come down to the question, what game do you want to play? Reform the Church or apply Scientology? They are not the same game, in one you are getting into a us vs them situation, on the second one you move up the Bridge and help others do the same.
Does that mean we leave it at that? Never expose the truth of the abuse again? No, it does not mean that, it means we put it all on the table for the many who are seeking the answers to the mystery so when they are ready to reach for these answers they find them, in spite of DMs efforts to obstruction and protestations. And those looking for them will find it against all odds.
Here you are, you found your way to the truth. That in itself will bring change to the existing Mestology. Perhaps all those seeking true Scientology will eventually choose to actually have it. Unfortunately, pursuant to that KSW datum that the trap is self –perpetuating, there will always be someone to buy the snake oil. So the chance is at least 50/50 they won’t.
I hope with all my heart that people like Marc and Guillaume wake up, but in the end, it is their own future, their own eternity and their decision. Even under the incredible suppression they face, they deep down know the truth. Do I judge them? No, I understand them, understand their trap. If they decide to leave and come to me for help, they will always find an open door. But my job is not top try to sell them on coming to my door, but just to ensure the door is always there, should they want to reach for it.
I cannot afford to make it my life’s work to try top restore the Church to what I loved. It is a living organism and the people in it are the ones that determine its future if they are not walking out (and they could, Tom did, Mike did, Marty, Jeff, Amy, etc. all did) Then it is their choice.
Even if ever so slightly, they agree to stay where they are, when things are what they are. So we must make it possible for them to safely come out, if they so choose and otherwise USE the tech we have, use it to make a better world.
Miscavige does what he does to Mike and Marty, in a mad effort to prevent the tech from being used, if we get distracted into reforming the Church, we are playing DMs game, not LRHs. DMs game is to impede Scientology, LRH’s game was making auditors, clears and OTs. That is the game I want to play, the only game I ever wanted to play. The only game I intend to play.
The above is my opinion only and not necessarily that of the group. Just food for thought.
Me too. It is well known that Parts of Anonymous Hate WWP , Chanology and the Protests.
Maybe Tom is refering to the song “Little Girls” (anonymous uses that to taunt Jan Eastgate) from the American New Wave Band Oingo Boingo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oingo_Boingo
“Oingo Boingo was an American new wave band. They are best known for their influence on other musicians, their soundtrack contributions and their high energy Halloween concerts. The band was founded in 1972 as a performance art group called The Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo, and from 1976 it was led by songwriter/vocalist Danny Elfman, who has since achieved substantial renown as a composer for film and television.”
Mike must see something that makes him think it is OSA.
Or Maybe DMs favorit Page is 4chan’.
its unlikely to be from an anonymous member. the ad uses a lot of memes, but uses them wrongly. especially the marblecake bit.
“Monday, May 31th 6:15 am – 7pm If Garage is closed come around in backyard by the pool. Do NOT come before 6:15am”
I find this od. Some consideration for the children ?
Than it can’t be OSA. I am at a loss I hope Craigslist can cough up an IP-adress.
More
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=18367
I was contacted by Neel late last year. She contacted me by email — with lots of affinity and “so wonderful to find you!”
After giving me a brief summary of her journey since leaving the Int base, she went on to “brief” me of the terrible ills and activities of some people she knew I was in touch with by email.
Just part of her email stated: “Unfortunately, in stead of just doing nothing, I decided to hook up to a bunch of people who I found via the internet, facebook etc. Or others found me. Some not so nice connections. I just decided that it did not matter who I was connected to every one was my friend. However, I found sooner and later that some of them were activily attacking the church. Well, the outpoint being, after having been a Scientologist for so many years and SO member for 22 years, why turn around and attack the thing one so strongly believed.?”
She then went on to talk about Dan Koon, Mariette, Marty, Mike and so on — telling me:
“They say that they are only attacking the top of the org board, but it is not true. They are hurting scientology.”
The email gave me Hanseuli and Marion’s contact details and Neel urged me to contact them as “I have been filled in on everything that has been happening with the Church the last 5 years and it is nothing like what I have been told by the bad mouths”.
I responded by telling her that unfortunately I have personally witnessed events and incidents that 100% align with what is being said — and there are no lies or exaggeration — so I am not interested in returning to such a place or such an organisation. I also told her that her email was very clearly an effort to be an “effective blow to the enemy” (step 2 of the Liability formula) and a pitiful one at that.
I am sure she immediately reported back to the powers that be and I have been on a “list” ever since.
I passed on the information at the time to Marty and others — but I am sure there are many more just like Neel, who have been blackmailed into being agents (either overtly or covertly) and that are now operating covertly and not speaking out — instead taking notes and trying to glean information on every person that posts on this blog.
DM’s efforts to apply Sun Tzu’s Art of War (as it is the LRH recommended text for the subject we are discussing) are shockingly bad. He is having zero impact on those he is trying to confuse.
Here is what Sun Tzu actually says:
“Deceit is of course not practised as an art or end in itself, contrary to tendencies sometimes prevailing in the modern world. Rather, false measures, feints, prevarications, troop deployments, dragging brush, feigning chaos, and other such acts are all designed to further the single objective of deceiving the enemy so that he will be confused or forced to respond in a predetermined way and thereby provide the army with an explitable advantage. Warfare must be viewed as a matter of deception, of constantly creating false appearances, spreading disinformation, and employing trickery and deceit. When imaginatively created and effectively implemented, the enemy will neither know where to attack nor what formations to emply, and will accordingly be condemned to making fatal errors.
“Apart from measures undertaken within the military itself, “expendable spies” (who spread disinformation outside the state”) should also be employed. Therefore Sun-Tzu advised, “provide our [expendable spies] with [false information] and have them leak it to enemy agents. Naturally their lifespan is limited, for when the ruse is uncovered the expendable spy is normaly terminated by the enemy, explaining why they are also termed “dead (or doomed) spies”.
Instead of creating confusion or making us act in a predicable way — all DM has been actually doing is securing more nails in his coffin.
The fact is that Marty and Mike are far better at applying the LRH recommended text than DM and the OSA lemmings, and every effort on the part of DM is backfiring.
Instead of putting himself at cause, DM is continuing to catapult himself to effect and I am sure this is driving him completely luny (not that he wasn’t already!).
It is a wonderful thing to see the midget, who has inflicted so much pain and hurt and degradation on others — to start to get so desparate in en effort to stay cause somehow — any possible way he can think of.
I can hear those coffin nails now!
Marty, Mosey, Mike and others — if you need anything in this nasty battle, let me know. Unfortunately my location on this planet makes that a little hard — but if I can, I will assist in any way I can.
DM is a psychopatic maniac and should be put inside a mental hospital. I suggest you start filing every attack to the Police, partly because of documenation purposes.
You must start to use law enforcement. Police, courts, prosecutors, class act. Bring everybody together and sue their asses off. Now!
I applaud Mosey. Living under the implied and not so implied threat by dmology, his PIs at their door has got to be trying.
I worry about Marty (and Mike and his loved ones) safety and I live about 1500 miles away from both of them.
I tried to figure out what dmology would do next and came up empty.
Although if I were a scholar of the Art of War, I’m betting I could.
On a different note and to those who feel this board should exclusively quote LRH — I am reading a new book by HH Dalai Lama: “Toward a True Kinship of Faiths: How the World’s Religions Can Come Together”.
I recommend it to everyone on this board. No, it will not make you a buddhist :), but it will perhaps give you different points to view this thorny subject of religion.
Currently what I see is that thanks to dm, scientology has long ceased being anything resembling a religion. It is purely a cult.
However, if it is again to be viewed AS a religion, there are perhaps aspects of our own mindset that we should be clear about.
While LRH covered religious tolerance in WTH – which could/should handle it — I find “tolerance” often translates to some as — “well, it’s pretty yukky but I guess I can tolerate it. Although it’s pretty lame and uninformed”.
Instead – IF we were to UNDERSTAND the world’s religions by taking the TIME to read more than a footnote, we might see that AT THEIR CORE, they wish for mankind what we all do.
(Hell: The place where everyone starves because the forks attached to the arms of the diners, are too long and therefore cannot reach the person’s mouth.
HEAVEN: The place where the forks are just as long, but the diners feed the person across the table from them)
WH
Funny, funny, funny!
Just Me
Karen,
Thank you for your love and support!!!
Love Mosey
Truth,
“DM’s tricks will NEVER work with you, actually makes your relationship with Marty and your love for each other even stronger.”
Ain’t that the TRUTH!
Love Mosey
+1
AMEN Mike!
ROFLMAO!!
War and Peace,
That is exactly where my thoughts go every time I receive one of these ridiculous emails.
Thank You!
Love Mosey
“what profit a man should he gain the whole world, yet loose his soul” Thomas Moore
Jim, I’m getting the same vibe from Anton. That 1.1 comment above on Mosey & Marty is exactly what an OSA Op would say.
Pretty transparent there, OSA.
How would anonymous get Mike’s address? Seems like a frame job to me.
Simply disgusting beyond belief!
Now this is a question for the little Dave ” When people look at you what do they miss?”
My grandfather was a Minister but you don’t see me quoting the Good Book here
However, I was hoping to pick up a used pulpit from Mike’s garage sale
Micarriage should be crammed on Sun Tzu “Art of War”.
i never considered that the “pay off” may be a crime, but also anything signed is under duress. did you ever feel you had a choice about signing anything the “church” wanted signed? not without a great deal of struggling.
Having a paper trail which documents all of this harassment will be critical in the future. I do hope that authorities are being contacted and statements are being made to police, etc. of each and every harassive phone call, email, PI visit, etc.
Even if nothing gets done now by authorities, a full and complete paper trail documenting it all, will invariably be useful in any future legal battle.
solace,
You have hit the nail on the head; DM has NO viable answer to Scientologists with KRC with the materials other than inval and eval. The same tired lines are used for that too.
He doesn’t dig Scn. He doesn’t get LRH. Add to that continuous present time harmful acts and he’s so introverted into that ‘problem’ he’s been fixed in, and he has NO tech. That includes Sun’s.
It takes real Ethics Presence and real Knowledge, Responsibility and Control to pull this off. That doesn’t exist in DM’s camp.
I’ll answer the burning question for DM; what’s our strat?
Ethics, tech and admin. There it is. Only to grasp it, you’d have to actually cease committing present time overts, so you can get a case gain, and from there you will be able to duplicate gradiently parts of Scientology and what’s more be able to actually apply them, to others for their case gain. Working your way back to the game of life that is constructive for the rest of life, someday, depending on your effort, you’ll arrive and understand completely that ‘strat’.
See, Dave, OSA, Mike Sutter and especially Hansueli, cause I think you are a fish out of water with these others (that’s just my personal affinity maybe), and any others who are on this line of ‘what to do about all this’, there can’t be any ‘curves’, no ‘pitch’, no ‘angle’ to the purpose.
It’s a clean line, one where everybody wins, that is higher than the fray. Not ‘monks’, not some fixed idea of who is ‘good’, and not devils, but real, honest to God, free beings reaching out to help others achieve their own personal spiritual freedom.
Concerned Citizen:
LRH’s game was making auditors, clears and OTs. That is the game I want to play, the only game I ever wanted to play. The only game I intend to play.
The above is my opinion only and not necessarily that of the group. Just food for thought.
I am ready to play this game with you.
Felicitas
Bugs of all kinds, like what I saw on the BBC documentary made back in the 80’s where goons put thousands of maggots on a womans patio.
They’ve been using these low tactics for years. But things have changed in the world, this kind of behaviour falls firmly under the terrorism laws. I hope the legal team is prepared to work overtime… doubtful though if DM doesn’t coerce that cool ten million he needs as a retainer out of the public.
Thank you again, and I appreciate that. I actually am a pc now after a long time of reading and learning. I’m finding a lot of peace in myself in the auditing and have had some real physical gains, and I hope I can afford to go up the Bridge on the Indie side in time. It feels odd to post here sometimes because I have lived in a different reality, but I also feel like I’m learning more about Scientology, REAL Scientology, through folks here.
And believe me, religious study has been one of my quirky little obsessions since I was a kid, and I used to attend Unitarian Universalist services, where they teach EVERYTHING. So there’s no telling what I’ll pop up with!
Thanks, Jim! Is it awful to say I always really enjoy reading your comments?
And as far as DM and his lack of listening skills, that will be a big downfall. He might want to get in touch with Warren Jeffs and ask how that all went for him. I think he’s in federal prison in Utah now.
Margaret,
I agree with you. The detail about how its near Riverside and Florida (as Riverside Dr is close by and most cannot find our house on Riverview Drive) as that would come from someone who has been here and probably had trouble finding it. Of course, there are Anonymous people in Florida, though until now, my address wasnt too easy to find. But church PIs swarm all around, so I think the odds are overwhelmingly on the DMbots.
From the great Nicky Lowe, “Little Hitler” (from the album “Jesus of Cool”):
Marty thank you for posting this.
It helps so much, expecially to those others that are alone and get overwhelmed.
Big hug to you and Mosey!
Again, the church is trying to break families…
Good thing that Mosey is a smart great woman and has met too many good people on the independent field…
depends how toll the are.
If they are toll they probably miss him… (Ha! Ha!)
… beside his W/H’s of course 😀
Both ops are pathetic. What testimonies of incompetence for a “leader of leaders”.
Mike, Christie and Marty, Mosey, go, continue to rock die Herren Sutter and Stahli and be assured of my deep gratitude.
I think the originators can and should be nailed for these postings through legal channels. Fraud on craislist and E-Bay, slander re the letter.
oops forgot the “g” craigslist
This is just creepy, like an old Hitchcock movie. One question, does anyone really think that DM will actually pay for any of his crimes? I’m sure he has made absolutely certain that he can’t be connected personally to any of these attacks, even if they are traced back to the originator. And I’m equally sure that he has a HUGE nest egg for when the kitchen gets too hot. Even if he was somehow connected to and charged for his crimes, he would be on a plane headed for some non-extriditing country before you could say “Gotcha”. As sad as it is, I don’t think he will ever be held accountable for his actions, even if it means going out like Hitler. For those of you who knew him, don’t you think he’d rather be dead than be shown for the criminal he is?
From Dianetics Jingles:
“No wise man should stammer, because another shuns his grammar”
Heather,
See Mike’s evaluation of the data here, I’m leaning with him. So, you CAN still love me, right?
Dis one smacks of OSA playing at being anonymous.
DM
What is it about the 2D that drives you absolutely psychotic? Is it because beings derive happiness and strength from this dynamic making it so much harder to drive them into apathy?
The amount of effort and resources that went into breaking up Chrissie and Shane stand as testimony to the vicious lengths you will go to just to sever that incredible and unique comm line between a man and a woman who truly love each other.
Is that how you managed to finally take LRH down? By taking manipulating his relationship with Mary Sue to remove the one person who would stand by him and protect him no-matter what?
This operating basis will not work anymore.
You cannot destroy us, you cannot attack us, you cannot trick our loved ones into betrayal. We have grown too strong.
It’s only a matter of time before you lose all the beings that you draw your power and strength from (you have none of your own) and then you will be left with yourself.
The future draws close now to an inevitable conclusion and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Attacking the relationship between Marty and Mosey only proves to them that their love is something very very valuable and to be protected at all costs.
Just because you use your ‘power’ to smash and destroy all that is good and beautiful does not mean we will do the same to you. It isn’t in our nature because we are GOOD.
The longer you play this game the more work you will have to do to claw your way back towards any hope of our forgiveness or redemption – you WILL find the need to ask it of us some day – when you find yourself shunned and alone with no true friends. It is a horrible fate. I would pity you if it weren’t for the damage you do.
You have already lost. Get out of the game now before you make it any worse for yourself.
What we must do is create a spavce for people to walk free in togheter. So we do not do things nescercerilly to destroy DM but to have safe the poeple that we love or not even that. Just for people to be safe from harm is a big enough goal.
OSA targeted a family with children.
curiousone,
You should direct some of that curiousity to getting trained in Scientology. You can answer your own questions. THAT IS the whole point of Scientology!
Here’s a bit from the corporate filings for CST, this from the Bylaws, Article III, Purposes, crafted under the direction of LRH:
“That he who asks a question is closest to the answer, that every question contains its own answer, and further that every problem contains its own solution, and that the technologies of Scientology are of such a nature that a person with a question or a problem may be spiritually assisted or guided to the end that the person is able to answer his own questions and resolve his own problems.”
DM is most certainly ‘paying’ for his crimes, right now, today, this very minute. His life is pure, unadulterated, terror, pain, and misery.
The problem is, WE are the ones he thinks should be ‘paying’ for his crimes. We aren’t. What we’re trying to do here is get the guy to take ownership for what he’s done/doing and to the extent he fights that, he gets NO relief.
When he can, that will signal the beginning of the end of his fear, turmoil and destruction.
Those closest to him, pulling off these ops/capers as described in the Opening Piece, are failing him, them and the rest of us by prolonging the inevitable, irrevocable justice that DM himself is busy rigging.
Life is assisting him of course, that’s us.
If those guys had any sense, they’d help HIM and get him to cease his continuous present time overts.
How about that training curiousone?
I came out of my confusion after work and a good going over with a felow anon. The description of what is in the House smells like private eyes going through the garbage cans and posting at the house. And why so specific years on the playboys. That was retorical and needs no answer
Alsoo the use of memes is off. Alsoo the blatant indication of WWP is an obvious stupid ploy.
This is INVASION OF PRIVACY on so many levels.
Mosey, that letter adressed to you makes one want to take take a shower after reading it. That letter is slimey as it is creepy.
Sam, Right on target.
Ah, this is just like the classic days of the Guardian’s Office. Almost rings of the op against Paulette Cooper. I guess OSA is back to trying the “successful actions” of the pre-DM days.
Caliwog
Yes, I saw that, Jim. I’ll accept that reasoning as Mike would know.
I love you either way. But don’t confuse me with your stereotype of Anon, okay? ❤
To any OSA staff member reading this:
I can understand that Fair Game (or a comparable OSA NW) is being applied here to “destroy the enemy”, but the underlying problem (for me at least) is why Mike would even be considered an “enemy” in the first place. Maybe I’m missing something here.
I am guessing you are happily applying specific policies on how to handle attacks against the organisation, believing these actions to be the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, protecting Scientology, LRH and the route to freedom. I totally get it. Yet these policies were written to protect an organisation that was on-source, ethical and upstat, that applied KSW and delivered. Such an organisation WAS worthy of protection, hence the need for specific tools to ensure the future of our technology and the freedom to use it.
But is that organisation in existence today? The same organisation LRH worked his ass off to build and to protect, why numerous administrative policies were written, why KSW itself was created and considered so important, so VITAL?
“Logic concerns obtaining answers. And answers depend on data. Unless you can test and establish the truth and value of the data being used, one cannot attain right answers.” — LRH, HCO PL 12 May 1970, Data Series 3 BREAKTHROUGHS
It is a truly noble thing to help protect this work, and help others go free. And those who attempt to destroy this technology, or hinder the efforts to use it, should be handled. But the question remains: does that organisation still exist? Is it still operating as it once was, 100% LRH, in adherence to policy that was in place to boom the orgs, to ensure the prosperity of Scientology and Scientologists, and to effectively clear the planet?
Is the organisation of today on-source, ethical and upstat? Do those at the top apply KSW sincerely, as written? Are the orgs booming like they used to be? Are we making more Clears and OTs than ever before? What do the stats show?
It is a noble thing to fight against those who wish to hinder the use of our technology, or to see it (and us) destroyed. I cannot argue that point.
But if something isn’t right, and efforts to correct it go ignored, what does one do? If one is witness (or subject) to continual abuse, yet is prevented from bringing justice, what does one do? How can an organisation repair itself when there are elements in power that are unable or unwilling to bring about reparation?
Who is the real “enemy”? One who actively fights for a booming, on-source, ethical, upstat org – as LRH himself intended? Or one who stands silent, willingly or otherwise, and lets that which we all love and hold dear fade into distant memory.
“It is a wise man who, confronted with conflicting data, realizes that he knows at least one thing—that he doesn’t know. Grasping that, he can then take action to find out.” — LRH, HCO PL 11 May 1970 LOGIC
M&M:
I reckon these are exactly the kind of lame bullshit ops that Mr. Rinder refused to engage in when he was still in-charge of such matters – and for which he copped all those beatings from McSavage.
Without a competent “general” who actually was trained in both the works of Sun Tzu and Ron Hubbard’s to restrain such stupidities, the mental moron midget martinet carries them out unopposed and unhindered to the vast detriment of himself and what’s left of his organization.
He truly *is* his own worst enemy.
Michael A. Hobson
LRH actually said the Bible was interesting read and even suggested that we read it.
Brilliant, Marty!
Tom Martiniano’s “Open Letter to OSA Int” is thoroughly accurate.
I can’t wait to see what kind of nonsensical tomfoolery the DM bots come up with next.
That would be silly.
No, you just have to stare at the meter until you get them all. Look up at the PC every 30 seconds so you dont ARCX him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/20/scientologist-may-provide_n_584080.html
Jack, my brother. I stand beside you. Your write-up is excellent Sir.
ML Tom
DFB, did you actually crack a joke there? That was good.
Just Me
These events are outrageous and so very childish! But does not surprise the ridiculous links DM will go to to harrass someone; he has nothing better to do.
What a way to wake up to find people at your house ready for a garage sale on a holiday. Mike the way you handled those who had driven all that way was perfect!
The email to Mosey sure did come from a real snake in the grass and a real scumbag. It was like water rolling off a duck to Mosey, she too handled it brillantly. Love, Jan
H,
I haven’t. Not since you and I communicated some time ago. And that’s IF I was so thick headed to have ‘stereotypes’ in the first place, which, thanks to genetics, I’m not. Thick headed that is. My head is rather attractively thin in fact.
On the day when we can fully trust each other, there WILL be peace on earth. I think you and I have gone a long way to that postulated goal.
It looks like the Church Scientology is splashing out the cash to buy some cheap foreign “nerd for hire”power. I thought they say that they would handle quickley with no ease. Oh wait that was back in Januari 2008. DM is feeling the hurt to resort to this.
Moderator from WWP
“11:16 da5id > we’re being hit with a 1gbps udp ddos from multiple hosts, mostly in places like russia/brazil/vietnam”
Reaction on ESMB from Ogsonofgroo:
“And apparently Mexico too.
Oh well, this is not a new phenomina. Pain in the ass but not new stuff.”
Freeloader debts have been being canceled and reduced all over the place… I have 4 very close ex-SO friends and 2 of them got their debts completely wiped out, and the other 2 got theirs reduced by about 95%!
Of course, you have to donate to the IAS or a couple library packages as a sign of “good faith”. Or in Ian’s case, become a DM Bot.
Dear Jack:
Even though I am not “OSA”, I so thoroughly enjoyed reading your comments.
What a bright, clean, and clear communication this is. VVWD, sir!
You sure did cover the bases; so simply yet so fully. Thought you’d like to know that it as-ised a huge chunk of mass in MY universe, and I’ve popped right out of my head!!
Thank you!
(thank you to ALL of the theta beings here, and elsewhere, for all that you do. this particular piece by Jack here communicated so well to me that I just had to take the time to acknowledge and thank him personally… now, back to my own admin scale and our purpose line… Happy Trails all, and have a beautiful day!!)
Thanks for that WF. Had not seen those PR lines. Perhaps Sue Wilhere posted them.
Wow, here I was thinking that if DM didn’t take over and let Pat Broeker as Loyal Officer do his thing – which was literally hobby Horsing – he would have done much more despite his flaws, out ethics and financial irregularities in terms of the following:
1. Not messed around and alter LRH.
2. Not beat up and abuse his staff & public.
3. Not dismantle Marc Yager and his machine of management which was set up that was expanding CoS by real stats.
4. Not set up rip off exchange and a mockery of ethics and justice to further them.
5. Not have the current state of horrible PR.
6. Not cause mortal tragedies from out Tech and Off policy, much destruction of lives.
7. Not have juvenile pranks and waste and costly ineffective, desperate & laughable actions directed at two people.
We would still have a game where everyone wins within and not just exclusively without, achieving goals many agreed with when joining Scn, staff and SO.
Hoho,
Did you know that “tai” means shit in other languages?
Sam,
That was soooo spot on. Whew! You ARE good!
W&P,
Good points and how true! One has to be “careful of” in order to not to hit any triggers which will send things over the edge! Life is constantly walking on eggshells or thin ice, while moving at a breakneck pace.
And supreme trekkie! Awesome post!
Yeah Jan,
Mike is a sit-handler supreme!
The effect on those who drove a long way due to this prank is also not readily seen at the moment. Wonder what they had to say to Craig’slist and Ebay? Road rage anyone?
This is CSI. They are rummaging through old GO files to see what was effective in the past:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout#Harassment
“Cooper was seen as a high-priority target by the Church’s Guardian’s Office, which acted as a combination of intelligence agency, legal office and public relations bureau for the Church. As early as February 29, 1972, the Church’s third most senior official, Jane Kember, sent a directive to Terry Milner, the Deputy Guardian for Intelligence United States (DGIUS) directing that he find out information about Paulette Cooper so that she could be ‘handled’. In response, Milner ordered his subordinates to ‘attack her in as many ways as possible’ and undertake ‘wide-scale exposure of PC’s sex life’.
“Cooper counter-sued on March 30, 1972, demanding $15.4 million in damages for the ongoing harassment. However, the Church stepped up the harassment, for instance painting her name and phone number on street walls so that she would receive obscene phone calls, and subscribing her to pornographic mailing lists. She also received anonymous death threats and her neighbors received letters claiming that she had a venereal disease.
“In December 1972, a woman ostensibly soliciting funds for United Farm Workers stole a quantity of stationery from Cooper’s apartment. A few days later, the New York Church of Scientology ‘received’ two anonymous bomb threats. The following May, Cooper was indicted for making the bomb threats and arraigned for a Federal grand jury. The threats had been written on her stationery, which was marked with her fingerprints. […]”
DM and his cult don’t know Jack.
Those who have broken at least some of the shackles of false data and service facsimiles and there relations, to venture minimally a taste of independence, do know Jack.
It is or would be a privilege to know Jack.
Hear, hear Jack!
Bruce Pratt
Now that makes sense. I recall Neel as, well, to put it bluntly, a dumb blonde. A sweet, pretty girl, but not too bright. Makes sense that she would be easily conned. As for Ian, at his age he probably has no other prospects than Neel, so off he went – following her tail. Unfortunately for them, this will not end well for either one.
I would like to share with all of you some additional views I have concerning my previous posts concerning Diana, daughter of LRH. If you could go back and review the posts I have made in the previous blogs, “Marc Yager and the IAS” and in the one titled “Black dianetics at the top of the bridge more on IAS” it might help provide the proper framework and foundation.
Perhaps, looking at it from this view point might help. I see this, in part, as a push of power to Diana, and as you can see in my previous posts, my views of her connection to LRH. So with that in mind, a power push to Diana, is a push of power to LRH and what LRH stood for and his legacy.
How many in the SO, out of the SO, in Scientology, or out of Scientology care to contribute to this motion.
Is there a better power push any one care to offer.
A special message for those of you in the SO reading this, particularly you in a position to make a difference, ask yourself this. Where are you going to push your power, to DM, or Diana, the daughter of LRH, founder of the very church and SO you claim allegiance too.
As another aside to those of you directly at the top in the SO, and this may not be real to the vast majority of you there, and this in direct reference to how you treat, respect, and respond to Diana, but, how shall I put this, LRH is taking notes.
Wow Virgil! You said it all.
Sounds like Anton may have an unflat bullbait button…
dwarf…
midget…
the little emporor…
dwarf…
did I say dwarf? L
ighten up, Anton. Your trollness is showing.
that’s really really funny Silvia! 😀 😀 😀
Love from UK Independents HQ
Speaking of black ops and psychotics, I’ve been informed that WWP has been successfully shut down by someone and it’s domain name now points to the RFW site. All while the DDOS attackers of the mestology site are going to prison. Never a dull moment…
Back around 1968 (and for a few years thereafter), there was a book sold at Scn bookstores called “Scientology and the Bible”. It showed parallels between various LRH texts and Biblical passages.
Mike,
I expect that the Playboy collection and the Wii have gone already, but how much do you want for the tent and canoe? I’ll definitely top Quicksilver’s bid. Will you Fed-Ex to the UK?
This is getting too stupid for words. Do the OSAbots really think that this blatant and childish harassment is going to stop anyone? I just hope that whoever is responsible lands in very hot water. Or subjected to a very severe probing. 😉
The email to Monique was worse, in my book. I hope you didn’t find it too upsetting. This kind of third-partying seems to be a current tactic as ‘exes’ in Australia have been on the receiving end of similar communications. This is disgusting behaviour, more worthy of the KGB than a ‘church’. Perhaps those doing this might want to consider what kind of people they have become. That’s if they are still capable of rational thought.
Ax
Well, I just finished talking to another VIII and he is not going to put up with the abuses any more and is right now logging onto the 31 factors. I didn’t even have to say anything to him, he came to me and asked for help.
So there you go. You guys mess with Rinder and Haydn and Marty/Mosey and we just expand or as we like to say – flourish.
ML Tom
What’s WWP and RFW and DDOS? Sorry, I’m tired and my mind isn’t computing.
The RFW site is linked to by the WWP mods as enertainment untill they sort out the atack.
It’s a little Anon joke
Mr B. – I can appreciate the care/feelings you may have for Diana, but have you asked yourself – would she even remotely WANT to run the church?
Having known Diana I am going to venture to say — not even remotely. Diana is a Div 6er/expansion person, a terrific ambassador for LRH AND an artist.
To saddle her with running what is now a complete nightmare is almost unkind, frankly.
Yes — we should all respect and care for her and do whatever we can to extricate her from the clutches of a madman. But, please don’t wish on her that mess.
MOREOVER, It’s never a good idea to get the boss to front for you.
State your opinions, that’s fine. Just don’t say that LRH is agreeing with them. Have your opinions stand (or not) on their own merit — please.
WH
WWP=Why We Protest (Anonymous)
RFW=Religion Freedom Watch (Scientology)
DDOS=Distributed denial-of-service
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack
All you have to be is a potential prospect for Flag services. Within a 4 day period, my dad’s went from 50% to $1000.oo in order to get him confirmed for a SEMINAR at Flag. By the time he arrived a week later, they wiped it out completely.
It really is all about BIS and money, not delivery.
Ax,
Nope, not upsetting at all! As marty says….”it just gets our stremph up”
Love Mosey
Wow Solace. We are tracking.
Give credit where it is due.
Marty and Mike Rinder, the Internet and blogs like this, Steve Hall’s scientology-cult.com and Jeff Hawkins site Leaving Scientology~
have put ETHICS in on Church of Miscavology to STOP the abhorrent “Freeloader bills”.
SO members after working like a slave, with pay often at $23 a week, rice and beans, sleep deprivation, cancellation of 3 weeks Annual Leave, no guaranteed 1 day off in 2 weeks, no benefits, no auditing other than sec checks, ungodly schedules, it is pure CORPORATE GREED to demand a freeloader bill on departure.
In fear that route-outs will join the Internet groups and read the truth, or post on Marty’s blog and other sites, the damage control is to cancel the Freeloader Bills. INT Base departures get $40,000 to shut up and no declare as was hard fast policy in the past.
LRH NEVER intended Freeloader Bills to be implemented the way it rolled out.
Marty and Mike are getting some ETHICS put in the CORPORATE GREED OF::
1) Bankrupting the rank and file of Scientology by IAS regging. (DM slush fund)
2) Cancellation of Freeloader bills.
New departures think it is the benevolence of the Church.
One day perhaps they will thank the likes of Marty and Mike..the trail blazers getting ETHICS in on gouging SO and ex SO.
I want to thank anyone who had part in the ddos atack on wwp. Thank you for playing the Game. You just made it more intresting.
(anons -> http://www.scanchan.org/)
Jim
Theta twin! LOL. I was just reading your post and thinking how similar were your views to mine 😀
Good point, none of this would be occuring without the efforts of the above terminals being on the line.
Dave Adams and anyone else interested (Dave I’m sure you already know),
For a reference, “Marblecake The Game”, the website that defines it is:
http://posthumanmarxist.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/marblecake-also-the-game/
Redneck,
I think your quotes speak of integrity and understanding. “Integrity” has become a byword of the Middle Path Movement of independents. But integrity fails when understanding fails.
Integrity is not just having an idea and sticking to it.
The argument would be that you find something true because you yourself have observed it to be true. But if the means and method of observation are flawed, the resultant “truths” will be flawed.
Our observations are formulated meanings that we have applied. Applied. And if the meanings we apply are faulty, our observations will be faulty. Just listen to a Republican talk about a Democrat or vice versa.
Observation leads to an idea. But the resulting idea emerges from previous meanings we’ve accumulated. Holding to that idea gives you a stable datum, a means to combat chaos and confusion. The idea also aligns other ideas, other meanings, which we then apply towards new observations.
The key is to continually update your observations. The world changes.
But, looking around, you discover that people can observe the most incredibly wacky things to be true. Politics and religion are rife with fixed ideas that have been “observed to be true.” So where is the integrity?
Without understanding can a person really develop integrity? And isn’t integrity an ongoing process, a process of growth and change and willingness to look anew?
Integrity is a wholeness, a completion, where all the parts work together: both inside and out. What we feel inside is what we present to the world. Thus, your quotes. The temple is not a tomb but a place of glory because what occurs inside is filled with joy and love and understanding. And what occurs inside is expressed outside. No lies.
No hypocrisy exists there because one has no need for hypocrisy. To venture from that integrity of love and joy and understanding would diminish you. And would diminish your relationship with those around you.
Your words speak of a purity of soul that becomes a way of life. A way of life not dependent on material goods and impressing others. Nor is it dependent on gaining status, of falsely arriving at levels and classes which are merely gongs and cymbols announcing your “altitude” to the world.
Status without substance is a whitewashed tomb.
Ah, well, you got me started. I didn’t want to post, but…
Thanks for sharing.
Michael
Great posting TOM good job.
The reason OSA plug away, business as usual, is they are convinced Marty and Mike and others are “destroying the church” and this is what is fed by Hansuilli, Marion and Sutter to their damage control prospects.
“They are not just anti-DM, they are destroying the Church.”
Meanwhile, current OSA are there to”protect the Church.”
They are unable to see that the Church is being destroyed from within.
They cannot view the EARLIER BEGINNING to all of this.
Why would Marty, Mike and others have left in the first place ?
The sign is great! Great handling Mike. I especially like:
“If you have come a long way and need a drink of water or to use the bathroom, please ring the doorbell.”
Now, That is Scientology. Applied by someone with his TRs in. even in the face of suppression.
Concerned Citizen,
great post. Such expressions of a greater insight are what keeps me coming back here when I have other places to go.
Michael
Jules and Anyone Else with Information,
If you can provide specifics and any sort of documented evidence that Freeloader Bills have been dramatically reduced/canceled it may help quite a number of people who DID pay tens or hundreds of thousands on their freeloader bills to get their money back. Frankly, they were defrauded and probably have a very good shot of getting it back, as obviously it was money collected under false pretenses.
If anyone here has specifics, and better still, documents, please let me know. If you dont want to make the information public on the blog, just submit a reply and note that you don’t want it posted.
Mr. B,
It sounds like you have a great interest in and affection for Diana.
I’m going to double down on what Windhorse said, although I’m certainly no intimate of Diana’s. Still, I don’t recall anything she’s ever said or done or intimated that suggests she has any serious interest in being a managing executive of the Church of Scientology.
Also, I don’t believe a person’s ancestry, other than in a monarchy, qualifies them to play other than a ceremonial or sentimental role in an enterprise such as Scientology. Certainly, none of LRH’s other children have expressed any interest in picking up his mantle either.
However, my main objection to politicizing Diana in this way is that, should any steam build behind such a movement, I think DM would simply make her a target. Frankly, I don’t think she has the skills to defend herself if he were to turn his Sauron gaze in her direction.
Plus she certainly hasn’t volunteered to be put in that position … unless you know something I don’t know.
My two cents’ worth,
Just Me
… and there’s always that Great Religions book off the Minister’s Course – it gave good basics on the major religions of the world.
These infantile activities give Scn a black eye. Out of curiousity today I mentioned to a Hemet local that I thought of her when an article came out in the LA Times about beatings by the Church of Scientology in Hemet. She said she prays for them every time she drives by. She went on to say there use to a Dad picketing out front every day because his daughter died working there due to lack of sleep and food, he felt she was murdered due to lack of care. She went on to say that they don’t give proper medical care to their “Sea Corps”, she is not a Scn and I didn’t correct her on lack of wording as I was just doing general poking around to get a viewpoint from a local. So Hemet locals aren’t so dumb that they aren’t clued into what is going on there. So demonites, clean hands make a happy life, no clean hands and as a result it has spread around hither thither and yon.
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That’s great Tom! Well done.
Sheesh … I remember the G.O. M9-ing The Art of War … many supplanted Standard TechAdmin with that.
Just Me,
I have spent a great deal of time working with Diana over the years and consider her a long time personal friend. I fully concur with your view. Mr. B certainly doesn’t know something you don’t know. She is extremely loyal to her father, but certainly doesnt consider herself to be the born successor to LRH. Of course, anyone who understands the fundamentals of LRH tech know that thetans aren’t created by parents. This is in no way intended to lessen Diana’s many incredible qualities. She is an artist, she has real presence, she is extremely caring about the well-being of others and one of the most wonderfully bright and vivacious people I have ever met (when not being ground into the dirt by Dear Leader rejecting her scripts over and over), But all that being said, I would never paint a bullseye on her forehead by starting some public clamor for her to “replace” Dear Leader. She will be squished in an instant.
Alright, that was too general … ‘some’ of the guys/gals’ in the G.O. 🙂
Mockingbird, your very correct. Whatever they sign is meaningless if they are under oath in a court of law.
It may be meaningless much short of that, but i am not an expert on such things.
And as Snow White is so wane to say “stop it”, yes demonites STOP IT.
Tom, that was brilliant! Flippin’ brilliant! Live long and prosper!
Hey War and Piece, You may already knows that datum but just to let others in the loop, not only they get the 40K and sign papers but they also get on video recording saying that they won’t make any mention of what they have experienced at Int as far as crimes, beating and otherwise…
Windhorse,
Thank you for your response and perspective. For me at least, perhaps not others, that LRH would stand next to DM and not his own daughter and rally for her is for me not even a consideration. Perhaps a miscommunication, I did not mean to say LRH was on my side, I believe I said he was keeping notes.
Perhaps if Diana was freely out and about so that everyone could plainly see, and obnosis for themselves what see says herself in person, in a very public setting, after been demonstrably OUT for some time. Then if she said she wanted no part of it, that my friend will be her choice and her decision alone. But that will not be possible with DM suppressing her, she needs autonomy, whatever she cares to do with it. If she gives in, in the same order of and coursed (if you think you had it bad with the IAS reging, imagine MSH locked away for months with the same treatment as some here relate with there IAS reg cycles, only worse at the hands of DM and others) as her mother MSH had happen to her irregardless of the worthless affidavits that come out of scientology, I for one would not believe Diane, unless DM had stepped down in the intervening time. DM stole the church from us, claiming authority in this manner. This is ONE of the secrets DM has that so terrifies him of being found out, his position is pure fraud.
In considerable condensation, consider the fact that a lawyer is first and foremost an officer of the court. Their first responsibility is to the court not you. If you and a lawyer were to get together and present knowingly false material to the court, well let us say that any lawyer would not like to be found guilty of a fraud upon the court. Guess who else is breathing DOWN DM’s back now to keep the lid on things. If the field is any STRONG evidence of the kind of reging that is endorsed from the top down, DM is in for a real ride along with those he was/is in league with as proof of how he operates and obtains compliance. His own endorsed reg cycles have come full circle and bit him in his A… As this is revealed more and more, and the corporate shield is pierced, all of the corporations that manipulate scientology will be revealed, including those dark shadows that hide in those corporations will come tumbling down. All those organizations will be found to be void ab initio. Freeing scientology.
Perhaps now you can see the real reason DM acts the way he does. He has been trying to keep a lid on something, that has already made its way out. The current and historical reg cycles are proof positive of how he operates. Now no one could possibly believe that MSH just gave everything to DM with this kind of track record and reports from former SO members and others of how he operates. DM is about to implode.
“Oh huge pay offs have been available for years, to those who really have the goods on them.”
Just ask Vicky.
Ian Cunningham to the joint Exec councils of the Freewinds Ship Org and Flag Ship Service Org regarding the retread of the upper bridge and switching emphasis from delivering LRH to delivering conventions:
“It’s a mind fuck, I know. You can’t think with it. But we’ve got to keep the bodies in the shop!” (emphasized by pounding on the conference table as he said, “keep the bodies in the shop”)
That’s whats important Ian? Keeping the bodies in the shop?
…
He was in the Finance Office. 😀
Thank you CONNECTED.
The video and and that pile of documents, page after page of signatures are worthless as any good lawyer will tell…it is done as a psychological action to make the SO member BELIEVE he cannot speak up.
….all those secrets will be told in due course…..
I could say a lot more but I will hold my tongue for now.
Uh…heh…heh…you said, “short”…
Dear Joe,
Makes me think that the next time Hansueli and Mike Sutter go to “turn” some new ex Int Base staff, that that ex Int Base staff do some smooth turning of Hansueli and Mike Sutter.
My guess is, these people who were “turned back in”, that one or more of them, will “turn back out” on their own someday.
I’d be interested in their stories, of that experience, of going both ways, and getting out.
This must be a pretty strange mental flipflopping.
I don’t know how someone could condone DM’s behavior though.
Did Ian and Neel see ANY of the slapping and punching and screaming insane stuff of the last couple years.
I think Ian left the Sea Org from the Int RPF in late 1990s, correct?
And Neel went to New York in 2001, correct, so she didn’t sheet, so she likewise didn’t see the horrible decline at Int in the last 6 or so years.
So Neel and Ian don’t have as severe a level of cognitive dissonance about DM as people who saw more of his insanities.
Man, what is going on in Hansueli’s and Mike Sutter’s heads though?
One of them needs to blow and get their heads on straight soon!
Chuck
Just Me — exactly!!
Diana has all the qualities that Mike wrote about below. And I’ll add — she doesn’t have THICK skin, IMHO – Bill Franks ran rough shod over her and she ended up leaving the SO for awhile.
Bill Franks, clearly a terrible executive and not a nice person, chronic liar was a SAINT by comparison to dm.
So — I second completely Mike’s comment about NOT starting a public campaign for Diana.
WH
Virgil, Tom,
Thank you for that VERY succinct letter to OSA!!
DM and his PTSnauts ARE destroying Scientology as LRH created it. If anyone has any doubts please understand that Clearing this planet is our only salvation for the Whole Track we are on.
You don’t have to believe LRH. All you have to do is go into session and audit your pc/pre-ot/ot.
Anytime I want to remind myself of my abilities gained because of LRH’s beautiful gift to us, I just go exterior!
Being OT-VIII is what it is about and am looking forward to the rest of the OT Levels.
Thank Marty and Mike and the rest of the very OT Independents that are here.
OTater 🙂
Once, Wow!! what a great post. You really work over the guts of reality and observation.
Mark
“I am never ashamed to say I follow the teachings of LRH, but I am not always proud to say I am a Scientologist. That’s because I am bothered by the continual mutilation of my religion’s basic principle of love by the extremists in my religion who construct a hierarchy of sin — which does not exist in any of the works of Hubbard– for no other reason than to protect their own prejudices.
Wow… Don’t know what else to say, but “wow”…
Sorry to be crass, but it’s like watching two monkeys trying to fuck a football.
First, I’d just like to say that we are all going to go OT, rehabilitate Hubbard’s reputation among the general public and along with lots of other well intentioned people make a really amazing future. It may not happen overnight but it will happen.
Second, for those OSA and RTC terminals who read this blog, a video. I just love the song and Johnny’s shaky old passionate voice, and if you weren’t so scared of DM you could pass it on to him. But maybe he reads the blog himself.
“They are saying it got rooted from a sci building in Clearwater.”
Agreed, Jim. 🙂
Once,
“The key is to continually update your observations. The world changes.”
Excellent! And here’s to the expanded non-existence formula, of which the current CoS) seems to have no awareness.
Felicitous, I agree that we need an agreed upon positive postulate. My idea though is not of a specific organizational form or a/g, but of a civilization like that Ron postulated if the Aims. I feel that the tech has spread far enough that we can create that world with independents. Now that we have the instant worlwide communication of the net we don’t have to worry about anyone monopolizing the tech. Everyone that still has the goal to be an auditor, get trained and start! Or help with literacy, visit the old and infirm, or whatever you want to do to help others. One doesn’t have to be a Scientologist to help create that new civilization, many christians, jews, hindus, b’hai etc have been working on the goals of a civilization w/o war, criminality etc. We have tech that works, we should go ahead and apply it. Meanwhile Marty and Mike keep running the FDS session, Thanks my needle is floating (not just 3 sweeps either).
That was wonderful comm. Brought tears to my eyes. If a person loses their integrity, they lose themselves. At least for me. So that brings hope. It also helps me in my resolve to extrovert here, which is my personal struggle most of the time. So thank you.
Good for him!!
Don’t take that seriously.
In the wog world, we call it good manners. 😉
Oops, I guess I did.
First, it was an idea, a joke in the spirit of play.
As marc Yager would say, “Basics !” ↓
►15 Literalness of Reception of Statements
4.0 = High differentiation. Good understanding of all comm as modified by Clear’s education.
3.5 = Good grasp of statements. Good sense of humor.
.
.
.
2.5 = Accepts very little, literally or otherwise. Apt to be literal about humor.
.
.
.
0.5 = Literal acceptance of any remark matching tone [apathy]
0.1 = Complete literal acceptance.
The Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation 1951
•Processes of Self-Analysis can help a person rise UP the Tone Scale and better enjoy life.
Please also read:
• The design of Ethics by L. Ron Hubbard
(Could be found in the Introduction to Ethics Book, probably at your local library)
• Different subject but along the same line, one of the early PDC lectures in the series (#3 perhaps) in which LRH discusses the Reverse Flow and how to use it.
So far, DM and the Occluded Special Apparatus (OSA) have been at cause with their tactics, and enjoying it. All acts done in generalities, and by someone else other than the originator.
So far, nothing ever happens to DM & OSA staff.
Stop their money flow, and you’ve got a different ball game.
Marty,
I just had to tell you, especially after this latest story, that is is so important that you have Mosey in your life. I’ve experienced the loss of someone very dear to me and was alone for a long time. You have been through enough and have to go through that alone, would just be more than anyone should endure.
Anyway, I know you know this already but I just wanted to pass that along as we should all be so lucky as to have someone special and caring in our lives.
Thanks for being there.
I believe that to be totally accurate. The Fall is right around the corner, I can so ever feel it, and there is no way to stop the current decent into Hell. And once he’s gone, his successor wouldn’t want the same Fate, so sweeping Changes become inevitable. CO$ will never be the same again.
Not by choice, but he’s gonna crack, I’m very sure that, if isn’t already in progress of happening. And when he runs, so will all his Bot Lieutenants. They have no Power, they’re under the Illusion they are protected by his.
Off-Policy, not a Chance, unless you want to do the same thing DM has been doing publishing altered Scientology Tech. Its a No-Win situation. Most Independents would simply want assurance CO$ will cease all future legal harassment so they can practice their Scientology religion freely. LRH would never accept that, and neither will future CO$, thus it needs to be brought to its knees. And that’s why DM will not relent, he must be cracked. Alternately, bankruptcy will do it, and after that point there will never be another powerful CO$ again. Game over. If anything is gonna happen, its gonna happen in the Independent field.
CO$ & Independents can never see eye to eye. Once you join another Scientology group, you can’t come back to CO$/OT Levels, at least not this lifetime. Per Policy, that “Group” must be disbanded. In 46 years at the very latest, Trademark & Copyrights expire and there will no longer be any such thing as a legally official Church. Then CST/RTC will wither away. Its all just a matter of time really. Ultimately, no one from the Freezone/Independents will benefit from any CO$ reformations. Its a peanut gallery exclusively.
Here’s a little more flourish. Last night I had a wonderful comm cycle with a friend who is OT VIII – she lost a lot of sleep last night after she started reading our blog. Impressed, she is.
A somewhat smallish mind isn’t capable of seeing that while some things the church is doing are positive (e.g., the Basics are basically fine products and improvements over earlier editions in terms of design and glossaries and the accompanying lecture series are fabulous) that the abuses being spoken of could ALSO be occurring. Fragile minds cannot process shades of gray, only black OR white. That and leverage because of family connections are the sole reason for any wins that the Three Stooges (Hansueli, Sutter and Marion) are having on their project to “help ex-Int Base staff handle their situations.”
Ah well I joked on ESMB it was Mossad.
Just checked with my IAS-Registrar. He is briefed on the latest State of the Art of Tech interpretation. You have to count before indicating the FN. Any other technical questions and the further C/Sing can be discussed after a free interview with him.
He reminded me to to also find the Why, why the needle floated in the first place.
Redneck,
Curious what you feel you need to extrovert from?
I’m just a very shy person who withdraws easily. Used to be very wary of being around people at all or speaking up. Trying to get better. Auditing has helped a lot.
Redneck,
Ah, got you. Shyness can suck. But so can a lot of things. Being too popular can suck also. Having people always wanting your attention can suck.
Or you can just embrace the feelings and find them interesting and go on about your business.
After I got back from Vietnam I’d have these horrible panic attacks but no one knew because I just found them interesting.
Back to another comment you made: “If a person loses their integrity, they lose themselves.” Well, truth is we’ve all lost our integrity many, many, many times and we’re still trucking. We lose it, find it, lose it, give it away, have it stolen, find it floating down the river while fishing.
Sometimes I run across some idea that’s just plain hogwash, a bald-faced lie, but I like it so much I adopt it as “truth” just because I can.
When I put too much attention on something, when I put too much importance on it, it begins to get more solid. And solid is great for bridges and highways and buildings, but not so much for concepts.
“Integrity” is a concept. The static is capable of considerations, postulates and opinions. But throw away all the considerations, postulates and opinions; and the static persists. The awareness persists.
I was told that they were doing a ‘review’ and removing all SO-only courses and most admin courses (such as full hats and other courses required for ones post) from FL bills because one would not do those courses as a public.
I haven’t been able to find this in writing anywhere yet, but will continue looking.
That Sir is a win !
Deirdre,
OTA is OT Ambassador, can’t find your post so I’m posting down here.
That’s good. My facebook just got suspended because DM couldn’t handle this.
Pages and pages of stats and LRH quotes and articles to whoever responds to me too. Cut and paste. And a whole lot are out of the loop and learn a lot. I’ll get it back and keep rolling with more intention than ever. By the way DM, there’s a reason why I was targeting someone’s friends, maybe you can figure out who. Someone close to her knows and that’s going to be a mess to “untangle”. But that’s nothing to the number of average churchgoers getting the news. We’re going to have orgs after the numbers are on our side, and you can’t do anything about auditors being made you little bitch. Consider it done.
Boyd,
I have heard of FB police but you mentioned your FB account actually got suspended. WOW!
Curious, what was the reason FB gave you for suspending your account?
Actually my close friend just had all hia academy levels taken off his debt even though he was in the SO for less than 5 years and was on the TTC the while time because of the time he spent on his internship producing VSD. Oh yeah, we got documents.
Karen the church likes to “flag down” accounts and sites it does not want to see on line
I am speechless about the estate sale hoax. You might bring that up with Larry Anderson and the Saint Petersburg/Tampa Times! Make sure you photograph the screenshot of the Craigslist prank and have your say on national TV again. That is what I would have done. How lowly! I am sorry this had to happen, but again, once discovered, it makes DM look badder.
Thanks CD, I knew Craig’s List had the option to report abuse, didn’t know FB did as well.
Michael,
Just saw this ( I don’t have notifications or email)
It was quite a surprise and comming from someone I look up to such as you it is a great compliment.
I love this group, truly love the very sane company, the honest granting of beingness and the shaing of view points from greta minds such as yours is truly a feast fro the intelect
Haven’t heard back from them yet Karen.