Man’s search for meaning

I have recommended Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search For Meaning to many people.  I recommend it to anyone who has lived through imprisonment and intense Reverse Scientology practices.  I have also suggested it to people who are looking for direction or a purpose in life.  Ivan Obolensky sent me a clip of a segment of a Frankl lecture wherein he imparts an  important truth I think we all can agree with. It happens to be a truth  that has been utterly dispensed with in the church of Scientology, a disposal that may well sit at the heart of the reason for its demise.  I think it is a truth that we should never lose sight of.

168 responses to “Man’s search for meaning

  1. Impartial English Girl

    Too right. Good post Mr. Rathbun. x

  2. Thank you, Marty (and Ivan).


  3. Wow, there really is a Dr. Strangelove!


    Great data, Marty.


  4. Wonderful piece. When you compare that concept, which is covered in a similar way in the ESTO Series re applying positive postulates with personnel, to how the church operates , it really illuminates the domination and nullifcation that has take over the lines. The nullification of the correct definition of F/N’s alone has resulted in the nullification of countless corresponding gains. I think one can safely assume that this type of suppression is a long-term whole track matter for miscaviage and he has finally met his match, just in time.

  5. Yes indeed – it is a basic truth isn’t it, that we recognise in the writings of LRH that we ARE capable of aiming higher, and should always aspire in that direction. It was a search that for me also initially encompassed Jonathon Livingston Seagull and others by Richard Bach, and led to DMSMH and Scientology. Thanks for reminding us!

  6. Freedom Fighter

    Great video! I read this book when I was in high school. Sans study tech, I don’t remember much about it. Will have to read it again in a new unit of time.

  7. I read “Man’s Search for Meaning” as a teenager in Colombia. I had gone through some difficult situations and this book was recommended to me by my great English teacher at the time, who knew my scene. It had a huge impact in my life – it put things in perspective, that’s for sure!
    It molded my life and gave me a positive and uplifting attitude towards myself and others. I highly recommend it!
    Thanks Marty and Ivan for the clip– seeing the man is a treat!

  8. Brilliant. I’m still reeling about Jeff Webber though. Feel betrayed.

  9. Gabriel Bosch


    Given that Victor Frankl was a psychiatrist and you are promoting some of his thoughts, is it safe to assume that you don’t support the generality that all psychiatrist’s are incompetent and/or evil? I’m going to go out on a limb and answer my own question by assuming your answer is undoubtedly “Yes”. The reason that I make a point of this is for the simple fact that not vilifying psychologists and psychiatrists is an important step to gaining their support for Scientology. While some might believe this unlikely or impossible, I have personally seen an abstract from a university study done by psychologists on the initial effects of participation in Scientology services and the results were positive. If my memory serves me correctly, the positive correlation mentioned had to do with greater levels of ease experienced by individuals while in social situations.

  10. Marty,

    A most excellent book recommendation and an excellent clip. One thing that really struck me when I was in the Church of Scientology was that the people were, when compared to the general population, very disproportionately idealistic and well-intentioned. Scientologists were, again when compared to the general population, disproportionately searching for meaning. (There are always exceptions of course. Look at some who remained in the COS.) I’ve always tried to express and explain that to people over the years, going back to the heyday of ARS. (I’m dating myself.)

    On another point, thank you for allowing the prior comments on the DDOS attack on WWP (the web home of Anonymous). Very well done. And I think that was consistent with Frankl’s admonition to treat people as they should be, rather than how they are.

    — Kha Khan

  11. Barack Obama spoke similar words during the Democratic Convention in 2004 – during his campaign – continues during his presidency.

    It is that spark that IF it can be reached causes a man to have hope, to dream and to act.

    Thanks Ivan and Marty. It’s inspiring to hear of such people like Frankl. Interestingly there are more than we
    might think – their voices are just drowned out by the loud but small percentage of vampires AKA SPs.


  12. craig houchin

    Wow. That was profound. Simple and profound. Thanks so much, Marty for sharing this.

  13. War and Peace

    More on Viktor Frankle~~

    On October 19, 1944, he was transported to Auschwitz concentration camp, where he was processed and spent a number of days and then was moved to Tüürkheim, another Nazi concentration camp affiliated with Dachau, where he arrived the 25th of October 1944, and was to spend 6 months and 2 days working as a slave-laborer.

    Meanwhile, his wife had been transferred to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, where she was murdered; his father and mother had been sent to Auschwitz from Theresienstadt and were murdered there as well.

    Even in his blackest darkest time he thought this thought ~~ “”The one thing you can”t take away from me is the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. The last of one’s freedoms is to choose ones attitude in any given circumstance.””

    Imagine being in a concentration camp and having the analytical free theta to compute such a thought as a human being, one had the freedom to CHOOSE one’s reaction, attitude and response to the next atrocity.

    I wish I had had that viewpoint when I suffered at INT BASE.

  14. Oh so truth!
    What did Ron say?
    If you want to get to the moon you better hitch your string on the stars?
    Anyhow – thanks Marty, as I will forward this to All my clients and prospects immediately (without the SCN mentioning)
    As a business consultant (and manly as a Scientologist) this attitude is what I try to instill in my prospects clients, and selectees.
    Frankly, I never heard of this chap before.
    Is he still alive? (I by the way speak the same perfect accent with not the slightest English – but all of you know that already 🙂
    I know this will get me many clients, but even more important, it will make help an awful lot of people to achieve “their realistic goals” instead of falling short.
    Compared to most Scientologist when they FSM of some sort, be it via business consulting etc. are – so I think – too much hung up on ONLY quoting LRH and NOT using other great quotas form other famous people as long as they agree with our tech, and most importantly with us as an individual.
    Thanks again – I really love it as it is so truth and simple.

    Love Helmut

    PS: “Standard of living” is another Pl which can be interpreted the same way as this video for all dynamics.

  15. Cured Robot

    What a profound revelation it was when LRH stated that if you focus on all the wrong things with a PC you will never make him better but if you focus on the good and build upon those you will achieve success. Not exact wording but that had a huge impact, its so true and was how I handled people from then on. Such a complete opposite to demonology (DM’s version) which just drives people down, down, down the tone scale to where he can control all those bodies. There is nothing good in any of us unless we are driven to worshipping HIS body. One of the most sick examples I can think of is that musical chairs B/S while he is laughing sickingly in the background while truly great beings are being devastated over the loss of being sent off to some lone continent separated from their loved ones due to all their shortcomings.

    Which leads me to this, Marty, thanks to you and other great warriors (you know who you are), so many of us who have suffered the horrors of demonology have been given voice to be right and rise to greater heights! We’re not just labeled to some substandard level, but allowed to have a voice w/o recrimination. Freedom of speech at it’s best.

  16. Lady Lancelot

    Dear Marty and Gabriel,
    I came across this quote from LRH about psychiatry while on my Basics. After listening to this lecture, it didn’t seem to me that LRH really thought psychiatrists were all bad and evil. Made me feel a little foolish for having fallen for it.
    “There are certain things which I have decided to be mad at in this universe. I’ve decided to be mad at psychiatrist. There is no reason why I should be mad at psychiatrists. Really, the sensible thing for me to do about psychiatrists is simply go over and talk to them, make a couple of patients well, show them how they can make bigger fees, pat them all on the head and you’ve got Dianetics and psychiatry.

    But there is no randomity there. No randomity at all. They’re never going to hurt a preclear, really. I can rave and rant about electric shock and prefrontal lobotomy—you can pick them up in the next life and they’ll be as good as new.”

    LRH Source of Life Energy. Introduction: The Q List and Beginning of Logics page 11

    Anyway, I kid you not. There it is right in Source of Life Engergy

  17. but you did – as you are not there anymore 🙂
    Love Helmut

  18. Chris Black

    This reminds me of something that now seems forgotten in the halls and backrooms of the CoS, something that Ron never lost sight of: Man is basically good. This is aptly explained by Mary Sue in the article “The Way Ron Works” (Ability Minor 3, ca. April 1955):

    “Wherever we have been it has always been the same—in England, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain, or here in our United States—rich or poor, young or old, diseased or insane, there has always been the hidden man, woman and child behind the scenes who were helped and who, but did they know it, were contributing to the furtherance of a science. To me, the most important foundation upon which Dianetics and Scientology is built was stated in the First Book—that is, “Man is basically good.” I know of no one who believes this as strongly as Ron does. It is my feeling that this alone in times of contemptuous press, financial difficulties, the betrayal of friends—times when it seemed that all he had built was crumbling to pieces, kept him going, kept him persisting to his goal of helping MAN.

    In Phoenix after the fall of Wichita, a producer with whom Ron had worked in Hollywood came to see us at our small apartment. He was offering Ron what would seem to the ordinary man like ice cream and cake for eternity. After picturing this dream in the clouds, he said to Ron, “Now, really, do you think this Dianetics, this research of yours, is worth it?” Ron sat for a very long time—silent, his eyes closed. Finally after what had seemed like hours he opened his eyes, and said, “Yes! Yes I do.” After his producer friend left, I asked him why he had taken so long to answer. He replied, “I was watching pass before me a parade of all the people I had helped, their expression one of hope and faith in the goodness of the future. Nothing can be worth more to me than that.”

    And that’s the way he is. His belief in the innate goodness of Man, in being able to bring this and Man’s abilities to the fore continues him in his research. It enables him to communicate to anyone despite their physical disability to do so, or any language barrier.” – Mary Sue Hubbard

  19. Ne Obliviscaris

    Viktor Frankl was the inventor of Logotherapy. A psyco(spirit)therapy based on logic. I read his first book last year at Marty’s recommendation. I can honestly say it is a major reason I am here helping you guys now.

    Viktor Frankl survived four Nazi death camps, including Auschwitz, by helping others find meaning in their lives – and thereby his own under impossible conditions.

    Marty knows from which he speaks regarding this man. Anyone would be well served to read “Man’s search for meaning”

    He reference to Goethe in the video is particularly telling.

    Goethe is considered by many to be the father of modern philosophy. Like LRH, he rejected a strictly scientific approach that discounts the influence of a being over the physical universe.

    Here are a couple of quotes from Goethe that are applicable to our situation now:

    “Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him”

    “Divide and rule, a sound motto; unite and lead, a better one”

    Thank you Marty, for uniting and leading us.


  20. Psychiatrists and psychologists in my opinion are not all bad and evil as CCHR (or should we say DM) tries to make us believe. That Scientology is at war with these people to such extend is disturbing.

    Actually the entire anti psych campaign seems to be another money scam. The church makes a volume of anti psych DVDs and other properties which are being sold in bulk to parishioners for exorbitant sums.

    Why not simply post these videos on Youtube and make them wildly available? Tell people to copy them and pass the copies around to their friends? Why charge 20$ per DVD when the purpose is to “eradicate the psychs”.

    I actually bought some from CCHR. It cost me 40$ for 2 DVDs. They slam pharma and the psychs and really make your blood boil. My first thought was to put these up on Youtube because I wanted to warn others about the dangers of psychiatric drugs and how they destroy children’s life’s. Then I remembered, that these were copyrighted and that I would need permission. Then I remembered that there was a bulk discount and I could buy like 20 of them for a discounted price! Like 50% off or something like that. Well then I thought that was strange.

    I believe there is no real purpose in ‘eradicating psychs” but it is just another way for DM to create a dangerous environment so that more funds can be extorted from angry parishioners who think they are making a better world by coughing up more money for DM’s war machine.

  21. Gabriel,

    I’ve been unable to contribute for a while, but I just checked in and saw this. I feel very strongly that generalities are suppressive, as in “suppressive generalities.” We are definitely evolving as beings to the extent that we ditch generalities in our thinking. Psychiatrists are people and may be good or bad, brilliant or stupid. They may spout false data, or they may be out-of-the-box thinkers who elevate mankind.

    Thank you, Marty, for not thinking in arbitraties, for evaluating each being and his or her contributions in and for themselves.

    The video clip was wonderful!

  22. War and Peace,

    The story you told here is both profound and inspirational. Thank you!

  23. Marty reccommended this to me awhile back. I was depressed, missed my ex-girlfriend and was stalled creatively. Presently, my girlfriend & I are back together and got an apartment, and I just started a new novel. As LRH said, we’re concerned with workability.

  24. martyrathbun09

    Louis, wow, good for you man.

  25. Gabriel Bosch,

    Marty can correct me if I am wrong. I think the head of CCHR is a Psychiatrist, who I believe was good friend of LRH.
    So, all Psychiatrists and Psychologists are not evil.

  26. Great post Marty. What a great man Viktor F is!

    I will read his book you recommended. I am now excited.

    LRH read many great books while he was doing his researches.

    Thank you Marty.

  27. Not sure if this short, political tv ad slamming the church has been shown on this blog yet but here it is:

  28. Concerned Citizen

    Wow. I will get my hands on that book soonest.
    after I finnish The Shack.

    Way way back, when I was a new Sea Org member, I was chines schooling some quotes and found this one on one of the ESTO tapes

    “It’s a piece of magic, you say so… so it’s not a matter of “what a lousy staff member you are” it is “you re a staff memeber”

    These are all the words I memorized, but the essence of that was the granting of beingness and the vote of confidence a staff memebr should be given.

    There is also the HCOB, one of my favorites, called: The Recognition of the Rightness of the Being” This clip made me feel the warmth I felt when I read those.

  29. “Convince a man that he is an animal, that his own dignity and self-respect are delusions, that there is no ‘beyond’ to aspire to, no higher potential self to achieve, and you have a slave. Let a man know he is himself, a spiritual being, that he is capable of the power of choice and has the right to aspire to greater wisdom and you have started him up a higher road.”

    L. Ron Hubbard

  30. Regarding psychiatry…
    “The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.”

    I found Viktor Frankl’s words wise, intellectual, and inspiring, but I would continue to keep the above adage in mind in evaluating the field of psychiatry. Just because Miscavige is anti-psych, and just because a few psychiatrists and psychologists have made insightful comments does not mean we should embrace it.

    Let us not forget that the subject is founded on the tenet that man is chemical machine. Psychiatry’s history is loaded with horrors. Psychiatry brought us such brutalities as lobotomies, transorbital leucotomies, electro-shock. The holocaust was preceded by euthanasia of mental incompetents. Psychiatry was associated with political imprisonment of dissidents under Stalin. And of course today we have psychiatry in collusion with big pharma and responsible for the huge escalation of public use of mind-numbing pharmaceuticals. Some of the more sickening bizarre butcheries in recent decades were committed by people on some of these drugs.

    “…We of the Church believe that the Souls of Men have the Rights of Men, that the study of the mind and the healing of mentally caused ills should not be alienated from religion nor condoned in non-religious fields… ” LRH, Creed of the Church of Scientology

  31. The head of CCHR is Jan Eastgate, who is not a psychiatrist. Perhaps you are thinking of the cofounder of the CCHR, Dr Thomas Szasz, who is a psychiatrist.

    Agreeing with the CCHR isn’t my litmus test of good character. I know a number of psychiatrists and psychologists and they are good people who derive joy from helping others.

    As others have said or suggested, psychiatrists and psychologists are just people.

  32. And the latest Enquirer has front page headline about Cruise “losing it” – all about how while on the set of his latest movie, he refers to himself in the third person AND has required a new sound track one month prior to it’s release date. Seems he is starting to unravel.

    Perhaps he’s going to hit bottom? And then MAYBE he’ll start to look.

    Here’s hoping’ for the LOOK part.


  33. Joe Pendleton

    Re: “Psychs” – no doubt many bad ones, but all of the tremendous emphasis put on them since Ron’s death is because you “must” have “the enemy” to stir up the troops, get them to agree to be abused and give up all their dynamics……..and OF COURSE, to keep raking in the dough……take away all the control of their lives away from beings..and ALWAYS get all their cash too (as their life options severely decrease without any money and the “taker’s” power of choice greatly increases).

    Old saying re: earth religion – “You can have God without religion, but you can’t have religion without the Devil.”

  34. Joe Pendleton

    And also thank you for the video, Marty. How very true as a way to inspire people. lead them and help them be and achieve their best. Then a leader will have REAL ethics presence, as well as the loyalty, dedication and even affectition and love of the people he leads.

  35. The psychiatrist’s name was Dr. Thomas Szaz. He is the author of the book The Myth of Mental Illness. He co-founded CCHR. I do not know if he is still participating.

  36. CCHR is way off its original purpose, which was to eradicate abuses in the mental health industry. The mandate for Scientologists is found in the Code of a Scientologists, which does not say to work on eradicating psychiatry or psychology, but to work on creating an atmosphere of safety and to decry abuse.

    Somehow this has been twisted over the years to eradicating them instead of focusing on abusive practices.

  37. Marty that’s beautiful !
    Enjoy !
    Here some truth by Nelson Mandela:
    “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn’t serve the world. There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We are born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It’s not just in some of us, it’s in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

  38. Sorry Mandela used it in a speech but..
    The above speech by Nelson Mandela was orignally written by Marianne Williamson who is the author of other similar material

  39. and here the most inspiring and Theta speech ever given by a dictator 🙂 in the history of Mankind. Every human should know it by heart.
    here the Link:

  40. Sam, Chrissie & Shane

    Thanks Marty and Ivan – truly inspiring.
    Politics (who’s good, who’s bad) aside, this ‘compliment’ a la Jack Nicholson always brings tears to my eyes is beautiful in it’s simplicity. I would be happy to aim for this standard regardless of whether it is ‘Scientology’ or ‘pysche’ based (who the hell cares) it’s the basic being and his goodness that is important.

  41. This is the kind of post that gets me excited.

    Almost everything manifested by the church today is diametrically opposite to the spirit and goals of Scientology. You want to talk GPM’s look at the whole Scn/Psych ‘war’!
    I may be naive but I really think we could have brought valuable contribution to the evolution of that subject.
    One could say that the exposing of Psych crimes by CCHR went a long way to transforming the darker side of the profession; but to then A=A that they’re all bad is just witchhunt!
    With even a little tech under one’s belt we should know better.
    It’s embarassing to think I ‘towed’ this party line for so long. What a lot of base, vicious, GPM-loaded bollocks.

  42. Gabriel – he’s my answer to that question:

    We’re not all perfect and there are rightnesses and wrongnesses with all groups.
    Scientologists have their good (independents) and their evil (C of M). Two sides of the same coin. I am sure it is the same with anonymous, the media, psychology, psychiatry, catholics… ad infinatum.
    I know a number of people in the business of psychology that are good people with a desire to help.
    There is a need to step away from the propoganda campaigns of the C of M and view with equilibrium what is THERE.
    ‘That group is evil’ – ‘they are all bad’ – is a generality and a remnant of the propaganda campaigns of DM and his cronies used to create a dangerous environment and extort money. Don’t fall for it!
    A good illustration of this type of campaign (aside from obvious Nazi analogies of course) is illustrated in the movie ‘The American President’ Part of the quote from president’s final speech (just insert the name ‘DM’ where the Character ‘Bob Rumson’ is used:

    “I’ve been operating under the assumption that the reason Bob devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn’t get it. Well, I was wrong. Bob’s problem isn’t that he doesn’t get it. Bob’s problem is that he can’t sell it!

    We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things, and two things only: making you afraid of it, and telling you who’s to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections.”

  43. “Money” is the held-down-seven of this society.

    Perhaps it is just a dramatization of “the basic rightness of a being”.

    Living a virtuous life was recognized as a decent purpose in Greece, and Rome, for example. And others civilizations as well. Rising Scale processing was a part of Grade IV last I looked.
    Thanks for the clip. I will join his celebration of life….

  44. Excellent and inspirational post and comments, thank you for helping in quest of “moving up a little bit higher”.

  45. Lo, thank you for this link. Absolutely spot on!

  46. Marty,
    I had a wonderful essay written about this Opening Piece. Full of ‘scholarship’ gleaned by a quick search of Victor Frankl.

    Succintly, he was able to rise above the bank and recognize the validity of ‘function monitors structure’. Consideration takes rank over mechanics.

    Speaking of which, I’m sure the above video will be ‘proof-positive’ for DM that we are in fact ‘psychs’ disguised as Scientologists and likely have been all along.

    For those who merely parrot DM’s lines and live in fear of his GPM characters, who have had restimulated in them GPMs, they will continue to be effect of the Reactive Bank. Whereas, LRH, as pointed up in the lecture quoted above, recognized the selection of something out, that one denies cause and responsibility for, that is has Pan-Determinism about, results in randomity.

    Randomity gives one play.

    Factually, in 1953, LRH worked on developing a curriculum for the top auditors of the day that addressed the full body of texts related to the field of the ‘psych’. The whole works. Along about that time, in the period of the 1st Advanced Clinical Course, he pointed up that in order to mechanically gain agreement, one was well-advised to apply ‘sympathy’ (i.e., duplicate the wavelength of another) and once in agreement, use the line to communicate a higher wavelength and raise the person on the Tone Scale with accompanying rise in free theta.

    The policy, in Vol O, of 14 Jan 69, OT Orgs says:
    “When you diverge from a constructive purpose to “stop attacks”, the purpose has been abandoned. You get a stop. The real way to stop attacks is to widen one’s zone of responsibility. And pour the coal on the purpose. Thus all attacks one makes should be in THE DIRECTION OF ENLARGING ONE’S SCOPE AND AUGMENTING BASIC PURPOSE.

    “Thus, in the case of Scientology orgs one should attack with the end in view of taking over the whole field of Mental Healing. If our purpose was this then it had to be this on all dynamics. We only got into trouble by failing to take responsibility for the whole field!

    “We’ll win back by reasserting that responsibility and making it good.”

    Rather than dramatize or resonate with DM’s GPM and ‘fight’ the ‘psychs’, it seems somewhere along the line we’ll have to become pan-determined about the ‘field of mental healing’ and take responsibility for the vast majority of beings in that field, who themselves may be subject to similar GPMs, and bring about here on earth a modern science of mental health that has to embrace the spiritual nature of man as that, so poignantly indicated by Victor Frankl, is the source and cause of life.

    I await anxiously for the new OSA headline ‘Independents are psychs!’ In which case I think I’ll apply Frankl’s successful action, be above the GPM. Postulate your own future. Act as the source of your own destiny and don’t react despite all provocation to the compulsion of Reactive Bank on any of various dynamics.

    P.S. Virgil pointed up this very PL and that very purpose, to me recently. Virg, seems it’s becoming clearer what that guy Hubbard was on about 🙂

  47. On the flip side of that… I heard a talk show host mention John Travolta the other day.He was recounting the obstacles John had to go through to get food and supplies in to Haiti.

    Then he said “I know, I know, Johns a crazy Scientologist, but it doesn’t matter…look at what he DID”!

    John actually IS a scientologist. That’s why you don’t hear him crowing it all over town.

  48. Thats the same PR line they ran in my state to keep Criminon out of the prisons.

  49. Well, since the US has the largest prison population per capita in the world, and half of them are “drug war”offenders, the majority of which are non violent, then I definately think we should integrate our best torture techniques, toughen these boys up for the outside. Sue definately gets my vote. NOT.

    We now return you to your regularily scheduled faux soundbite democracy.

  50. That is the true genius of America, a faith in the simple dreams of its people, the insistence on small miracles. That we can say what we think, write what we think, without hearing a sudden knock on the door. That we can have an idea and start our own business without paying a bribe or hiring somebody’s son. That we can participate in the political process without fear of retribution, and that our votes will be counted — or at least, most of the time.

    BARACK OBAMA, speech at 2004 Democratic Convention

  51. SignsOfSuccess

    I wonder why many members of anons hate cult
    link this blog on their YT channels ?

    Any idea?

  52. Psychiatry’s history is loaded with horrors, HUMANITIES history is loaded with horrors.

    Psychiatry has ineed been used as a tool of control. Watch “The Century of Self”. It’s avaliable on google video.

    Psychiatry was reversed by Freuds nephew…sound familiar? If so then you can see what the CO$ has become.

    “Freud provided useful tools for understanding the secret desires of the masses. Unwittingly, his work served as the precursor to a world full of political spin doctors, marketing moguls, and society’s belief that the pursuit of satisfaction and happiness is man’s ultimate goal.”

  53. What a beautiful Mensch.

  54. “There is only one security, and when you’ve lost that security, you’ve lost everything you’ve got. And that is the security of confidence in yourself; to be, to create, to make any position you want to make for yourself. And when you lose that confidence, you’ve lost the only security you can have. … Self-confidence is self-determinism. One’s belief in one’s ability to determine his own course. As long as one has that, he’s got the universe in his pocket. And when he hasn’t got that, not all the pearls in China nor all the grain and corn in Iowa can give him security, because that’s the only security there is.”

    L. Ron Hubbard

  55. Marianne Williamson is the author of that quote.

  56. Hear, hear, Fu Dog.

  57. Maybe you could say you have Psychiatry and Black Psychiatry.

  58. Beautifull Movie

  59. crashingupwards

    Very interesting thread on the psychs. Mental Health abuses are what we should be concerned with. And where power and mental health practice come together, as in State mental Hospitals and court systems, there is need for independent oversight. I am sure we all agree.

    But not all psychs are evil. Thats a foolish thought. Most want to help their fellows but were trained and fed an incomplete and in part dangerous science. There are many hybrids in the filed now, using freud and any number of other humanistic practices to get results.

    Whats interesting to me is the LRH maxim, “what you resist, you become”.

    Could anything be more Orwellian than the mental and physical control over scientology staff. INT looks like that 1960’s or 70’s TV spy series with a place in it called “the village”. Gives one the creeps.

    There is plenty to do to keep an eye on institutional psychiatry,et al, but I think we need to get our own house in order first as we have given up the moral high ground most definitely. Or at least the Institutional Church of Scientology has, in my opinion.

  60. Because our beloved leader Tommy Davis told us so.

  61. Signs of Success,
    I think it would be good for you to express your idea as to why this may be so, if it is. Instead of this 1.1 nonsense.

    I personally haven’t ever been to an of the YT channels of any ‘hate cults’. Well that’s not true, I do check in on Minerva every now and again but I haven’t seen any YT stuff. She did obligingly air the recent ‘Shack chat’ and that was nice of her.

    Signs of success. You know, empty orgs, an ARCXen field, ‘covert’ operations that backfire and reflect their intent straight back to DM, any of these various things aren’t actually ‘signs of success’.

    I mean, consider that DM is being comm-eved presently. The list of ‘interested parties’ is extending as the justice action continues. More and more KRs are piling up. His suppressive acts, and the collusion of others, blindly or otherwise, in those acts are coming to the fore. More and more are realizing and taking responsibility to disconnect from his SP act frenzy. His reign of authoritarianism is coming to an end as more free themselves from his nuttiness.

    Yes, THESE are signs of success, but not the one you are suggesting. DM is under attack, because he’s an SP, not because Scientology is expanding.

    DM is under attack in his own personal hell which he’s splayed across the landscape the Church and from there out to the society.

    You are a fool if you think this blog represents ‘success’ for DM’s agenda. This blog, the disconnection in droves from the CofM, the rehabbing of purpose and happiness and vigor and life of those thus disconnecting, and the sheer life force represented here are signs of the success of LRH’s Scientology.

    There are the signs of the demise of David Miscavige’s MESTology and suppression.

    Now, since you aren’t likely to change your mind so easily as it can be changed, here’s food for your fixed idea – YES we ARE THE PSYCHS! I’ve got to go cash my AMA check now so we’ll have to continue this later.

  62. crashingupwards

    War and Peace. Nice quote you offered on Frankl about deciding how to view others actions against one.

    Its a basic and powerful tool for helping people deal with nasty people and situations. For years when advising others on difficult situations, I used that advice so they could adjust their viewpoint. You cannot control what others do, but you can control how you look at it. I didnt get it from Frankl but someone else, maybee Vernon Howard or Roy Masters. But that little trick is out there in use and its a good way for a person to gain some control over adversity and suffering.

    I never read Man’s Search for Meaning or anything else he wrote. My loss.

  63. Ooops, seems I’ve selected out Signs of Success for some randomity. Damn the fun provided on this blog! I’m not sure I’m cut out for this saintly serenity gig. Too much of me Ma’s Irish impishness coming out. It’s hard to resist the fun wha’, and blame me poor ol’ Ma too!

  64. This is slightly off topic, but it fits in. Check this church spokesmans main why on buying that cigar factory in Tampa, lol.

    “Two other factors spurred the growth spurt, said church spokesman Ben Shaw.
    First was pressure from international church executives in Los Angeles, and the second was that the growing base of parishioners in Tampa Bay had reached a “critical mass.”

  65. SignsOfSuccess

    Well, Jim, I personally don’t think that this blog
    represents “success’ for DM; but you can’t ignore
    the fact that this blog represent a “success’ for
    anonymous cult.

    Now, I don’t see why you go low tone when I say
    that anons are part of an hate cult or at least a
    an hate campaign.
    I believe that Marty agrees with that.
    Catch you later.
    ARC (btw, I’m the first one who has ended a
    comm with it?)

  66. martyrathbun09

    Jim, thanks. As you know, I am not running a popularity contest here. I said from the outset, I am proceeding primarily on a stable datum that comes from Gandhi: you may be a minority of one but the truth is still the truth. For those who bristle at the fact Frankle was a psychiatrist by degree, and a developer of his own psychotherapy by profession, I have a number of replies in addition to your well reasoned one. First, recognize that every highly trained person I know who has read Frankl’s book –  first published in 1946 – agreed with my conclusion that ‘there is no possible way LRH did not read and incorporate from Frankl.’ You’d have to be plugged into some weird cult matrix not to see that. Second, even if my first conclusion is incorrect, the truth is the truth – and whether this guy was a sewer worker, a brain surgeon, an IRS agent or an implanter from Arcturus – he communicates some fundamental truths. Third, LRH never survived four Nazi concentration camps, and nowhere writes or talks of such an experience from experience – one of the closest analogies I could find to what went on in DM’s hole. Fourth, I challenge CCHR to find a single psych anywhere on planet earth who has done anything even resembling what DM has done in the Hole over the past ten years. Closest thing to that I could find was Jim Jones of Jonestown fame in the 1970s. Fifth, ain’t it sweet to be free?

  67. martyrathbun09

    Signs of Success, you take me, Jim, Anonymous, DM and Scientology far too seriously, methinks.

  68. martyrathbun09

    Ben always had difficulty lying. He could do it, but was alway uncomfortable with it. That is why DM despises him. Good on him for letting a little truth slip out while trying to keep the PR story straight.

  69. martyrathbun09

    Victoria, brilliant, woman.

  70. martyrathbun09

    Jim, good point. Here is a reprint of the response I typed to your other comment on this thread, equally applicable here:
    Jim, thanks As you know, I am not running a popularity contest here. I said from the outset, I am proceeding primarily on a stable datum that comes from Gandhi: you may be a minority of one but the truth is still the truth. For those who bristle at the fact Frankle was a psychiatrist by degree, and a developer of his own psychotherapy by profession, I have a number of replies. First, recognize that every highly trained person I know who has read Frankl’s book –  first published in 1948 – agreed with my conclusion that ‘there is no possible way LRH did not read and incorporate from Frankl.’ You’d have to be plugged into some weird cult matrix not to see that. Second, even if my first conclusion is incorect, the truth is the truth – and whether this guy was a sewer worker, a brain surgeon, an IRS agent or an implanter from Arcturus – he communicates some fundamental truths. Third, LRH never survived four Nazi concentration camps, and nowhere writes or talks of such an experience from experience – one of the closest analogies I could find to what went on in DM’s hole. Fourth, I challenge CCHR to find a single psych anywhere on planet earth who has done anything even resembling what DM has done in the Hole over the past ten years. Closest thing to that I could find was Jim Jones of Jonestown fame in the 1970s. Fifth, ain’t it sweet to be free?

  71. Criminon is a C of M infected money regging entity.

  72. martyrathbun09

    I don’t know about that. It is infected for sure – and that is DM’s purpose for it for sure – but the folks who DO criminon, in fact, do a lot of good work.

  73. “The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.”

  74. Marcotai is that you again ?

  75. “The best way to know any future is to cause one. And that’s why, you see, when you start consulting the oracle at Delphi, you’ve taken a step downhill. You have assigned cause for the future elsewhere…
    So one predicts the future as much as one is cause. The future isn’t a pattern laid out to abuse and bully you. The future is a beautiful playground that nobody happen to be combining.
    You talk about virgin territory – the most virgin territory there is, is the future. You can do anything you want with it.”

    L. Ron Hubbard

  76. Gaiagnostic

    Tom Cruise — desperate for a blockbuster hit — snapped while filming his latest movie, sources say.

    The fading superstar’s bizarre behavior on the “Knight and Day” set rocked his marriage to Katie Holmes, and crew members feared he was cracking up, according to insiders.

    “No one has ever seen Tom so close to the edge,” an insider told The ENQUIRER.

    The 47-year-old actor startled crew members with his weird tics, and insisted on changing the movie’s score just weeks before its June 25 release, said the insider.

    “Tom developed this bizarre habit of referring to himself in the third person,” the source said. “He’d say things like, ‘Tom Cruise is an action star — he’d never have salsa music in a film!'”

    And with her husband manic on the set, Katie crumbled, said the source.

    “At one point, she cried, ‘Tom’s so stressed out that I don’t know him anymore. I just don’t know how much more I can take,'” said the insider.

  77. To back up Marty on this one…

    L. Ron Hubbard was very open about wanting us to look for ourselves at other philosophies, other mental practices, other religions.

    And to decide things for ourselves.

    If you listen to State Of Man or Route To Infinity, he makes it clear that he searched everything he could get his hands on and used much of it in Scientology.

    The DM culture has made it taboo to look at anything else. I’ve heard a rumor that you can get in trouble now for studying the world-wide phenomenon “The Secret”.

    Since leaving the cult, I’m studying an art coaching book by a noted psychologist and it’s giving me mind-blowing wins as well as helping me get back to my real purpose, make important creative decisions and set a production schedule.

    I’m blowing charge and making case gain by taking what I find to be excellent advice. And it’s not from LRH. It’s from a Psychologist. (gasp)

    It’s called Coaching The Artist Within by Eric Maisel. You can dismiss any data you don’t care for in it and you can utilize any data you have reality on.

    It’s totally ethical to look elsewhere than JUST Scientology for answers, advice, inspiration, etc.

    This is perfectly okay.

    It’s called being FREE.

  78. Marty, your post is significant and begs a clarity of definition.

    Since there is “Dianetics and Black Dienetics” as well as “Scientology and Reverse Scientology” is there…

    Psychology and Black Psychology
    Psychiatry and Reverse Psychiatry?

  79. Tone 41, Good to see you back.

  80. Mike Hobson

    That is only a partial quote.

    What Ron Hubbard said was “What you resist, you become – if you lose.”

    I believe that’s from “The Rule of the Weak Valence”. Somebody with a better memory want to cite it ?

    Michael A. Hobson

  81. Now, Q. Who stole Veritas?

  82. Mike Hobson

    Marty can speak for himself.

    As for me, “Anonymous is part of a hate campaign.” is a McSavage enemy PR line. Furthermore, the mental moron midget martinent has certainly tried to set Anonymous and Marty at each other’s proverbial throats, so we are not going to support such efforts here.

    Anonymous is not a homogenous group, any more than the Freezoners or Independents.

    Michael A. Hobson

  83. Signs,
    In light of the seriousness here, there is another ‘Signs’ that M. Night Shyamalan had out. It’s the one with the tinfoil hats. Do you recall that?

    Anyway, as to the somewhat cryptic response you have given me, and the aspersions mind you that I am therein enduring (youch!), what does that last thing in parentheses in your response mean?

    What, pray, is this ‘it’ to which you are referring?

    How on earth can this blog represent a sign of success for ‘anonymous’? I’ll venture a guess, not what you’re expecting. Is it because several of that loose ‘group’ choose to participate in the topics and Marty, bless his flat Grade O self, actually is willing to engage in some sort of communication applying this ‘universal solvent’, and thus NOT the GPM so prevalent in the Cof M’s responses? Those responses being, recently to masquerade as anonymous and do the ‘op’ as laid out in the previous thread.

    Hmmmm…these are the questions I have for you. And, note, you can actually endeavor to answer them here, on this blog, this one that has drawn you, and many others to its marvelous forum.

    G’head, giver ‘er a go. Remember, I’m not human apparently so hold on to your drawers on this ride.

    So, to summarize, I axe you; what the heck are you on about? What is ‘it’, and why have you left ‘it’ bereft? We aren’t ‘anonymous’, we are the ‘psychs’, as I’ve let on, so what is this other Q=Q you’ve proposed here?

    What the hell does that comment above mean?

  84. Marty,

    Viktor Frankl’s is exceptional.

    BUT, You stated;

    “I challenge CCHR to find a single psych anywhere on planet earth who has done anything even resembling what DM has done in the Hole over the past ten years.”

    and this maybe true for you if you have not looked, but I have seem hundreds of young people incarcerated in mental health systems who were just rebelious and without direction. Yet these childern/young adults were confined 24 hours a day and drugged daily into conformity.

    If these facilities are not run by Psychiatrists then by who?

    Walk through a mental health facility and see for yourself.

    That being said I have meet individual mental health practitioners who were intent on helping and others who were harmful.

    Oh, good and evil, what a GPM.

  85. I agree that anon be a bit hateful, since they even hate Marty. However, it amazes me how much they study the subject. Someday we may be able to turn that interest into application, and make real Scientologists out of them.

  86. Virgil Samms

    Jim, thqnks for using that.

    For all bloggers – absolutely DM uses Psychology and then Psychiatry, from what I have seen. It sure isn’t scientology. I will give anyone my best guitar if they can tell me what part of Scientology is saying “What’samatter> Got Guillumes Jiz in your throught?”

    Psychiarty is a dead subject. It is useless. Psychologist isusefull in that they are good for figuring out supermarket routes and ad campaigns and how to collect peoples attention units to buy Bide-a-wee Biscuits.

    But make no mistake, Psychiatrists are, for the most part, slicked up drug pushers who have won the hearts (and pockets) of our US Senate and aren’t afraid to use their mind-destroying drugs on even little children (Ritalin anyone?) for their own personal gain. It is disgusting that ANY being would do that.

    LRH said Psychiatry is the ruin of this planet. End of story.

    I agree that not all Psychiatrists are evil, and that’s just like saying no Sea Org members are evil.

    ML Tom

  87. Hi Cat Daddy!
    From what book or lecture does this quote come? As usual, you’ve done it again – blown me away with one of your LRH references. Thank you so much.

  88. martyrathbun09

    I’ve been through plenty mental health facilities. Have yet to see anyone INTENTIONALLY driving in anchor points and physically punishing people WHILE implanting them with the screaming commands designed to make the recipient think that he or she is pure evil. So, been there done it, and the challenge remains open.

  89. Bryon,
    Oddly enough, thanks to anonymous, a vast amount of LRH data has been made available and is, as we sit here chatting, on the computers of countless individuals. I dare say, anonymous has succeeded in getting LRH disseminated far in excess of DM’s multi gazillions of ‘library’ donations. Those, apparently, don’t exist, whereas the materials linked via anonymous do, and all in the comfort of one’s living room one can obtain and study Scientology.

    All things considered, I’d say of the two, if I was gonna thank a ‘hate cult’ as Signs has brought up, I think DM’s hate cult has fallen short in terms of dissemination.

  90. The closest thing I can come to DM’s special workshop, the ‘hole’ is one from a book by Naomi Klein, The Shock Doctrine, and the sensory deprivation experiments of Ewan Cameron described in that work.

    If anybody embodies that type of psycho- ‘therapy’ of E. Cameron, it is David Miscavige and his experiments at Int.

  91. Jim Logan,


    Is that Freach/Canadian?

    If we, where’s my check?

  92. My Google-Fu indicates it comes from:

    2nd American ACC: The Rehabilitation of the Human Spirit but I got it as a qoute from the Internet myself at first.

    Stumbled on a page on the way.

  93. Point taken.

    DM’s “brand” of blatant degradation of another is certainly “one of a kind”.

  94. martyrathbun09

    Jim Logan, you are absolutely correct. Slipped my mind, but you are absolutely correct. That’s what the MOQ is for. And as you well know Ewen Cameron was one of the first “very best psychs” to declare Hubbard and Dianetics “bunk” WHILE he was committing those very atrocities. DM and Ewen Cameron, peas in the proverbially pod.


    “See, he says this, ‘I’m going to accomplish end goal.’ And that’s all he does and he accomplishes end goal. And that’s very simple. Then he really has predicted the future, hasn’t he? Or he – ‘I’m going to undo end goal.’ So he does. He’s really predicted the future then.
    “So one predicts the future as much as one is cause. The future isn’t a pattern laid out to abuse and bully you. The future is a beautiful playground that nobody happens to be combining. You talk about virgin territory—the most virgin territory there is, is the future. You can do anything you want with it. Nobody is doing anything with it.
    “When everybody is just kind of drifting along, saying, ‘I’m not cause and I’m not going to do anything. I’m not going to change any particles. Let’s have a board meeting. Let’s have a this, let’s have a that. And let’s not have any cause here anyplace. Let’s just drift along and skid along and go along. And somehow or other we’re going to wind up somewhere or other on the track and we’ll find a future waiting there for us. Isn’t it nice that we’re so logical that there’s always a future waiting for us.

    “He has to cause a future playground in order to continue to have a future playground for himself. And that’s about what it amounts to.”
    L. Ron Hubbard

  96. Very good point, CD. I’m sure that’s the way it is.

  97. Fellow Traveller

    Technically, Jan as the President of CCHR Int is not the head. The post of Executive Director (ED) would be the head. I don’t believe she holds both posts.

    Speaking of “the President of” ….

    Bruce Pratt

  98. Perfect response, Marty. This provides the full context for anyone who might doubt or bristle at this post. Thanks for not running a popularity contest. 🙂

  99. Tom,

    I am in agreement that the field of psychiatry is harmful, but to say that “LRH said psychiatry is the ruin of the planet. End of story”. Wow. I think that’s an irresponsible viewpoint.

  100. Marty,

    I just have read Viktor E. Frankl`s book and I amazed. It just does rekindle life. I’ll buy my own copy.
    Budha sat under a tree until he reached the state of clear (as Lrh mentions somewhere, still can’t google for Lrh references…we should move faster).
    Viktor E. Frankl confronted the imprisonment in a nazi camp and came to the same conclusions than Budha. He freed himself of the body and exteriorized spiritually.
    Anybody that wants to make an intelligent comment about Frankl should at leats read his book. He was using that OT8 tech “rekindle the purpose” from the Policy OT Orgs. He is the proof that this tech functions to the fullest. He kept many people alive with it in those nazi camps. he was able to revive people that were already spiritually dead.
    Read it. its pure OT stuff that will throw you out of your body and give you a bright future.
    He knew Freud as well as commander thompson knew freud. Lrh says in the beginning that freud and thompson helped him a lot.
    after having read the book I can fully understand Marty recommending it.

    ” According to a survey conducted by the Book-of-the-Month Club and the Library of Congress, Man’s Search For Meaning belongs to a list of “the ten most influential books in [the United States].” (New York Times, November 20, 1991). At the time of the author’s death in 1997, the book had sold 10 million copies in twenty-four languages. ”
    Here a nice summaryup of the book:

  101. Fellow Traveller

    Mr Lensman —

    You’re not having much to do with preservation of the GPM(s), are you? The reverse in fact. I appreciate that cuz it ain’t easy.

    “what part of Scientology is saying “What’samatter> Got Guillumes Jiz in your throught?””

    Maybe, possibly the coach for TR0 Bull Bait.
    If it ain’t that, I’m pretty sure you get to keep your best guitar.

    Bruce Pratt

  102. because,
    Why, your check is in the mail of course 🙂

  103. Jim “knowledge is and should always be free”

    It was and is one the objectives of Anonymous to publish every last scrap of scientology material we can get out hands on.

    Oh the Irony of it.

    Scroll down somewhat on following and you’ll see a modest selection on one such page of leaks.

  104. Disclamer: I am not responsible for the occasional odd advertisement on it.

    A pinch of entheta confront weighs up to a treasure trove of leaks.

  105. Marty,
    Seems to me that would make a great Freedom Mag article; tracing the parallels of David Miscavige and Ewan Cameron. Both virulently anti LRH, and while engaged in vicious experimentation on human beings.

    That’s a Freedom Mag article for the near future I should think. Get that publication back to its purpose line and not just a WFMH/DM (either one, same dramatization) mouthpiece.

    Amazing what a smoke screeen DM puts up when he in fact is as much one of his dreaded ‘psychs’ as any of the real nasty psychs there ever has been in this or any time.

  106. War & Peace,

    Love that quote. I finally realized that searching for meaning was pretty much like searching for myself: it was right there all the time.

    We can choose to be whatever we wish; we can choose whatever meaning we wish for life.

  107. yeah, times are changing. Scientologists have the courage at looking at other viewpoints too!

    I remember about 30 years ago when I met my scientology friends we were discussing a lot about books we read (not only Lrh) and there was a constant exchange of good books that we should read from the Jonathan Seagull (was even sold in the book store) Sidharta, Durant, Science Fiction and 100ds of theta books I can’t remember. Per my own recall this stopped totally in about 1983 -no more other viewpoints-
    Nowadays I just have the feeling (generality), because of those exchanges no more occuring that Scientologists are reading less.
    I can imagine if I would offer a good book to a scientologist telling him there’s lot of truth in it, he propably would be suspicious (squirel ?) and tell me I first have to read all basics then listen to 3000 lectures sorry got no interest as I’ve to reach OT8 this life-time and I’m working day and night so got no time at all.
    I’m happy I teached my kids to read anything that came under hands.

  108. Cat Daddy,

    You are on a roll with the LRH quotes. This is great and very applicable.

    Think about all of the things the church needs from you (IAS, Ideal Org, redo training and processing, library project, etc.) and how often you have set aside your own goals and purposes (bridge progress, raise a family, communicated to friends and family, expand a business) for the greater good of the church because you were pressured into it or somehow it was impressed upon you that it would be an overt not to help the church.

    When one’s actions seem to be determined by the church, it’s time to get out.

  109. After reading Gaiagnostic’s post, it seems more that he is totally in DM’s valence. These all ring true to the way DM handled the INT execs.

  110. War and Peace

    Marty, well spoken.
    The reason the SP hole is far worse than anything dished out by Psychiatry is:::

    1) Mind-fuck auditing, squirrel commands, sticking the pc in FPRD case, OT III case, NOTS case, dirtying the needle and never cleaning up the incident but adding to the trauma and engram day after day.

    2) Perpetuating the incident of the snarled up case, day in and day out, week in and week out, month in and month out. This is not a 2-3 day penalty, it is a complete effort to break the person spiritually, in an effort to make them a DM robot.

    No psychiatrist does that.

    3) CRIMES are demanded incessantly, several hours a day, making the SP Hole inmate only introvert into the evaluation that he is first and foremost a criminal. (He has often already been declared a Suppressive Person.)

    4) Witholds given up are mocked and revealed and discussed to the whole crew. All private session data is culled and revealed to all SP hall inmates in an effort to ridicule and get group agreement against the ” CRIMINAL ” SO exec.

    5) Confinement to sleep under the inmate’s desk, inability to have a bed to sleep in, taking a shower monitored by security guard, and in earlier postings on the web, urination in SP Hall was forced to be done in plastic bags in view of others as further humiliation.

    Yes, Marty, I challenge CCHR to produce a case history of a shrink that treated ANYONE like this, least of all a dedicated SO member who is in lock down, cannot flee, cannot call law enforcement, is under DM threat that if he/she blows DM has “friends in high places” that will utterly DESTROY the escapee.
    This threat was done multiple times to Marc Yager.

  111. Mike Hobson

    Jeezus H. Christ!

    The source of this “report” is the National Enquirer?

    That should be all the comment necessary.

    *Nothing* posted in that garbage rag can be trusted as true facts.

    Michael A. Hobson

  112. I knew a supe who volunteered for Criminon and the results she was getting were fantastic. It actually surprised her how much the inmates were confronting and the wins they had were phenomenal, gave you goosebumps. Made me want to volunteer too. There is certainly a need for it.

  113. martyrathbun09

    Mke, to the contrary, one thing I learned after working with a number of celebrites for many years, there is always far more than a simple grain of truth behind every one of those tabloid stories. Most particularly on the subject of this one, who is notorious for threatening to bankrupt himself with over the top legal attacks on the slightest criticism.

  114. martyrathbun09

    Jim, yeah. Amazing too how he is such a study in the CRIMINAL MIND exactly as LRH describes it in the HCOB by the same title.

  115. martyrathbun09

    LO, great observations, thanks.

  116. There have probably been more horrors committed over the ages in the name of
    religion than of psychiatry. (this may just
    be because religion has had a couple of
    thousand years of head start) . Neither group’s
    overts are lessened by that stat.

    Does that make religion an enemy of mankind,
    as well? Each individual will have to decide that
    for him/herself.

    I think, at this point, that what is wrong with that viewpoint about “enemies” is that, simply, a generality is a generality. I fell for plenty of them when I was a church member. I should have known better. It seems to be in our nature to forget these life lessons and to have to learn them all over again, which I guess is why we develop creeds.

    Funny, though I don’t consider myself to be a scientologist at this point I still think the Creed of a Scientologist is a damn good one. I think it should be adopted across the boards by the human race.

  117. Marty, I love, admire and highly value the integrity of that response. Thank you.


  118. Because, if Church Scientologists really want to dive in and aid prisoners they should first confront their own Jailor.

  119. I don’t see anon as a hate group, but I see hate laws and legislation coming down the pike that are designed to surpress free speech or even thought.
    One person for sure loves it though, and that’s little Tommy two tone. It’s usually the second sentence out of his screaming mouth.

    Where is Tommy anyway? In the hole?

    I think somewhere at the core Anonymous, diverse as the group is, has as a driving inspiration the true spirit of what real anarchy would be.

  120. Perfect, Marty.

  121. Thanks, Sarge! Good to be back. I’ll be traveling for a few days, then I hope to be around a whole lot more. 🙂

  122. Other things to be taken into consideration is the timeline. This is what was occurring shall we say in Rons time. No wonder he was vehement!
    The 1940’s were a real heyday.

    Not sure if things are that much better currently, probably it’s just being done chemically through big pharma and with more savvy in terms of plausible denial.

    When I was working in the elder care field I had one client who’d had a lobotomy. They didn’t take her spirit, just most of her memories and it was very sad. She was fully aware that she had been robbed.

    From wikipedia;

    Freeman went on to develop a new form of lobotomy which dispensed with the need for a neurosurgeon. He hammered an ice-pick like instrument through the eye socket and swept through the frontal lobes. The transorbital or “ice-pick” lobotomy was done under local anesthesia or using electroconvulsive shock to render the patient unconscious and could be performed in mental hospitals lacking surgical facilities.[10] Such was Freeman’s zeal that he began to travel around the nation in his own personal van, which he called his “lobotomobile”, demonstrating the procedure in psychiatic hospitals.[11] Even children were operated on.

  123. I am not sure if LRH said that, but I wouldn’t have to stretch my imagination much at all to believe it.

    But one thing is sure… the current churches “war on” is NOT scientology, it is psychiatry. Ah, the irony.

  124. Thanks for the tip, Idle Org. I’ll check that one out!


  125. As Mark Bunker said: “Whatever you think of the man Hubbard said some profound things”

    Karen when somebody utters the frase “for the greater good” my alarmbells are ringing. Didn’t they have a similar utterance in Orwells 1984 ?

    You are absolutely right, a Church should provide service you not the other way around.

    With Regards CD

  126. Makes me wish I could go back in time and kick the butchers.

    UGH. Far cry from the curly grey haired older gentleman I talked too once.

  127. Mike Hobson: My sister has a good friend who will occasionally do “onsite reporting” for the National Enquirer – and has told my sister that ALWAYS there is a great deal of truth in what they report on. The National Enquirer is not the Aliens Land and Mate with XYZ rag.

    ALSO – I have a dear friend who used to work for the Enquirer. One of the many many attorneys working at at the paper. NOTHING gets printed that might get them sued. Occasionally they do get sued. But rarely. Why? Because where there is smoke there is fire and those reported on know it.


  128. Mike Hobson

    Yes, there *is*.

    CIA’s MKULTRA project from the 1950’s comes to mind immediately.

    Michael A. Hobson

  129. Mike Hobson


    “LRH said Psychiatry is the ruin of this planet.”

    The “Pain and Sex” HCOB from whence that statement came remains questionable in mind, being and RTRC compilation.

    Even so, hat was Ron Hubbard’s *opinion*. He himself warned about the necessity to differentiate his *opinions* from the theory and tech of Scientology.

    As much as I respect and admire him, I don’t get my opinions from Ron Hubbard. I form my own based upon available data.

    So, with all due respect to Ron Hubbard and yourself Mr. Martiniano, “Ron Hubbard said so.” is not the end of the story.

    Michael A. Hobson

  130. Idle Org

    Re: I’ve heard a rumor that you can get in trouble now for studying the world-wide phenomenon “The Secret”.

    It isn’t a rumor. In the summer of 2008 I went to Flag and on the ethics notice board there was an ethics order posted in HCO stating that certain persons had been found guilty of reading and disseminating the book “The Secret”. The ethics order stated that anyone found reading and forwarding information in this book should report to HCO immediately, M9 KSW #1 and handle lower conditions.
    I remember it well because I got in trouble because I had bought and read the book ‘by accident’ while browsing a bookstore in Mexico before I knew that we ‘weren’t allowed to read it’
    Hell I even ran it in session afterwards (on my OT IV eligibility) as an overt!!!

    Great book by the way 😀

  131. LRH never said, “If I tell you something, then it is true until the end of time and may never, never be questioned or challenged.” In fact, he said the opposite: “If it is true for you, it’s true. And if it’s not true for you, it still isn’t true. Not even if Ron told you is it true. It’s just not true, that’s all” (from the lecture Differences Between Scientology & Other Philosophies). I don’t think it’s correct to quote LRH on any matter and then say, in so many words, that this ends all discussion, thought, or debate on the subject.

  132. martyrathbun09

    Agreed. To do so defeats the entire core of the philosophy. It is one of the reasons the church of Scientology is dead.

  133. martyrathbun09

    Sam, it is one of the reasons the bots cannot disseminate. I’ve interested a number of people in the subject of Scientology by starting off with a discussion of The Secret. DM has killed the church of Scientology.

  134. To the church everything you study besides scientologist is being diletante,
    I told them that I did not have time to go to course because I was going back to college and I am taking cooking lessons and they were horrified, and the course supervisor send me to ethics.

  135. Virgil/Tom
    Thanks for pointing out what LRH said regarding psychiatry – that it is the ruin of this planet.

    LRH discusses psychiatry as a failed and harmful pseudo science in PLs and HCOBs and LRH EDs and in numerous despatches to staff assigned to investigate and expose abuses of people in this field. Partly that’s because some of the earliest opposition to Dn/Scn came from that quarter and partly due to what LRH saw in the late 40s and 50s. Many of you are probably too young to have ever seen someone who’s had a lobotomy, or shock treatment, but I have as a young person, and it is shocking. Such used to be more common. Now what you see of psych treatments is less visible – tons of “medications.”

    Besides Ewen Cameron, here’s another example of psychiatric abuse far worse than the hole : Walter Freeman, lobotomist. Check out PBS documentary on him on posted youtube – but mind you, it’s graphic and takes a confront of evil to see through! I saw the entire program, and it reminded me of all LRH had said.

    That doesn’t take away from the horrors you SO/Int guys experienced with the “hole.” (And one of the reasons I read and write here is that I BELIEVE your stories; what you experienced is CRIMINALLY WRONG; and I am furious how DM is the ruining all that LRH worked for. And I say again, WHERE IS HEBER?)

    To me one of the signs of failure of the CofS and its greater humanitarian mission in recent decades is the phenomenal GROWTH of psychiatric industry and increasing acceptance of the use of psychiatric medications to the point people joke about it like it’s normal. In the late 70s psychiatry was no longer very highly thought of; today, through legislation by “mental health” lobbies, psychiatric and psychological treatments have parity in pretty much all medical insurance plans, including Mr. Obama’s big panacaea. Because Scientology’s PR has been in a nosedive due to the C of M out-ethics/tech/admin, CCHR campaigns become somewhat laughable and irrelevant, IMO.

    As to Mr. Frankl, Marty, I agree he is an exceptional being who rose above and tries to lead others “up.” I found the video and descriptions of what he overcame in life awe-inspiring and humbling. Thank you for sharing. LRH’s tech is a workable way up; Mr. Frankl is definitely another who envisioned the dream and helped point the way.

    It’s not all black and white, but with psychiatry there are lots of shades of extreme gray.


  136. “If it is true for you, it’s true. And if it’s not true for you, it still isn’t true. Not even if Ron told you is it true. It’s just not true, that’s all.”

    THAT is true for me. It has alwayas been true for me long before I read / heard Ron say it. As far as I can tell right now, it will always be true for me.

    Just Me

  137. >Somehow this has been twisted over the years to eradicating them instead of focusing on abusive practices.

    What exactly are you basing this on?

  138. Tony DePhillips

    Great Post Irish MOQ!!

    I’ll bring the Guiness!


  139. Tony DePhillips

    I saw the same golden rod on the MAA notice board at the Flag AO.

  140. Pingback: Top Posts —

  141. Tony DePhillips

    HI Mina Bobi,

    The churchies actually think that anyone who is not actively on any service is “out-ethics” and needs handling. You cannot live your own life within the church in any kind of peace.

    I truly believe that the higher up you go as a public, the higher (enforced by DM) executives judge whether you are “making it” or not by how much you comply with the “command intention”. If you fight it then they fight you and use any and all kind of black PR compaign on you. Such as “you are out-ethics”, “you have enemy line”, “you are dissaffected”, “off purpose”, “other fish to fry” also punishment by expensive sec checks( can be very brutal in a lot of ways), and other things too.

    There is a great post by Robert Vaughn Young where he talks about Scientology criticizing the Psychs for evaluating and invalidating their patients. But in Scientology they do it all the time. (this is a paraphrase) (I would say DMestology) Such as you are PTS. You are suppressive. You are a DB, crim,pervert,etc. There is a lot of eval and inval going on in the current “church”. I don’t think we can say that much to others until we get our own house in order.


  142. Mina,

    Excellent. Remember we just had a discussion of the PL What We Expect of a Scientologist KSW 33…

    I want to wish you well!

    I am sure you will use your study tech and comm skills to good effect, complete your cycles of action, overcome your own and others’s counter-intentions, get the certificates or degrees that will help you step up, become a fully qualified cook/chef, manager, or whatever career you have in mind, and in time you will become a leader in your field and bring more sanity to some corner of life. You’re doing your job!


  143. Mina, that would be others’ counter-intentions, not others’s. Sorry for the typo.

  144. Quicksilver

    I have an idea that Tom heard about DM exposing his session data and having a good laugh about it and has been thinking on it – getting more & more pissed off. Now he is so pre-occupied with it, he is targeting (wrongly, of course) anyone in the vicinity.

    He has seen & realized his miscalculation in how he has presented himself as DMs best buddie, how he has been betrayed, and, his condition as regards other Scientologists.

    He is now between a rock & a very hard place … a very painful place I’m sure.

  145. Well said Tony.
    It was not always like that,I recall in the mid 80s at my org we would work with the public and assist them wherever possible to achieve their goals.A friend of mine decided to return to college and become an architect as this was a long term goal of his. No problem. We helped him with study tech.
    As the PES when a public was off lines for whatever reason I encouraged them to disseminate and got them on the free fsm course if they had the time. I got many public having huge wins disseminating and actually bringing in selectees who were handled and cared for properly.
    It was all very uptone.No inval or eval!
    Guess what happened …..we grew rapidly.
    DM does not have a clue what applying standard Scientology looks like.

  146. Tony DePhillips

    Great point Axiom38,

    I used to have that same idea. Instead of enforcing all of their command intention bullshit on us why dont’ they help us achieve what we want??

    You want to be a lawyer great! Let’s mock up a program of you doing that using the applicable Scientology and auditing.

    You want tobe an auditor to old folks? Great, let’s do it!!

    It could be SO EASY!!

    The reason it’s not is becasue there is an SP holding things down!!!!

  147. Standing ovation. Good one!

  148. On a plane once I overheard a student discussing career choices … she said she wanted to be a doctor because it paid the most. Say what? I said I hoped I would never need to go see a doctor who was just in it for the money.

    The greatest gift one can give a child IMHO is support toward knowing, developing and being true to individual purpose. That’s what is most valuable about a person, who the being is! And being valuable to life and others gives life meaning.

    Anyway, really enjoyed this video and ideas. Thanks.

  149. That’s actually quite scary, Mina. The atmosphere is toxic, like the Thought Police.

    Scientology is knowing how to know … what are the implications of that? full trust and confidence that a being has the tools and awareness to evaluate data, any data.

    Sadly, the exact inverse is being wrongly called “Scientology” now. Hence robotic parrotism.

    There is nothing more oppressive and suppressive than making it a crime to communicate or even consider something. It is not an overt to evaluate, inspect, ponder and consider anything!!

  150. Me? I missed you, too! 🙂

  151. Exactly.

  152. A human being is a deciding being.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Challenging the meaning of life is the truest expression of the state of being human.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Ever more people today have the means to live, but no meaning to live for.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Everyone has his own specific vocation or mission in life; everyone must carry out a concrete assignment that demands fulfillment. Therein he cannot be replaced, nor can his life be repeated, thus, everyone’s task is unique as his specific opportunity to implement it.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing: the last of human freedoms to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Fear may come true that which one is afraid of.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    For the meaning of life differs from man to man, from day to day and from hour to hour. What matters, therefore, is not the meaning of life in general but rather the specific meaning of a person’s life at a given moment.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    I recommend that the Statue of Liberty be supplemented by a Statue of Responsibility on the west coast.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Life can be pulled by goals just as surely as it can be pushed by drives.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Live as if you were living a second time, and as though you had acted wrongly the first time.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    The last of human freedoms – the ability to chose one’s attitude in a given set of circumstances.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    What is to give light must endure burning.
    Viktor E. Frankl

    When we are no longer able to change a situation – we are challenged to change ourselves.
    Viktor E. Frankl

  153. When I first became involved in Scientology “way back when,” I was really delighted with the idea that I could complete the bridge, both training and auditing in a few years, perhaps as few as two years, but no more than ten years. Then I could get on with my own goals and purposes, building a great life and/or continue on exploring my spiritual/intellectual development.

    Over the decades, this whole point of view has come to be seen as “out ethics” and any effort to get on with one’s life, carry out one’s own purposes and spend one’s time in self-decided pursuits “not okay.”

    i.e. if you are not “in the org” studying or getting auditing or working on some OT ambassador program, then you must be “disaffected.”

    Truth is I never agreed to become a perpetual student or pc and I did not sign up on staff, yet that is exactly what is demanded in countless phone calls, demands to come into the org, to go to events, to donate monster amounts of money.

  154. Bryon, I am an Anon. I love Marty.

    (I don’t always agree with him, but that doesn’t mean I don’t love him.)


  155. Marty and Ivan, thank you, I really loved this clip.

    And I’m reading The Shack. I haven’t gotten too far yet, but it is such a treat. Besides its content and story, it takes place in my backyard. I live in Portland where Mack commuted to once a week (I even ride the “MAX” like he did), I lived in the gorge right before I got into Scientology, and still have family out in Wallowa. Used to go there in the summers as a child and teenager. So … it’s especially a treat for me.

    Thank you.

  156. Mina,

    Around 2000 – 2001, at the Int base, we would be heavily berated if caught reading anything but LRH or a church magazine on the bus from our off-base apartments. I mean anything. We had a standing order for months if not longer, to read Axiom 28? (the one on Responsibility) every day and attest to it or we couldn’t get paid. I had no idea at the time that this type of mindset was applied to the public.

  157. one of those who see

    Marty, everyone – what an incredible conversation! Marty wrote at the end of one of his comments “ain’t it sweet to be free?”

    My answer… YES!

    We can read the data that LRH wrote about the Anti-Social Personality. Real SPs are rare, but they do exist. And, in my opinion – only true SPs should be labeled so.

    I am really having a celebration of freedom. A return of integrity, which is such a relief.

    As Marty said so well. Truth is truth, no matter where it comes from.

    Regarding Viktor Frankl: I can’t think of a specific reference but… LRH certainy looked at all of us and saw OTs.

    Thanks Marty. This is somethin’, whew!

  158. one of those who see

    Scientology has been hijacked. And I certainly was not alert enough to see it early on. THAT will never happen again. But, reading the viewpoints on this blog shows that the real Scientology is alive and well. So many of us really get it.

    And with the basics of ARC & granting of beingness in. With the goal of restoring freedom & self determinism to all people firmly in place. And with standard tech in-dissemination is a breeze. A place like that, a real ideal org or group couldn’t help but fill up.

  159. Thank you CT! 🙂

  160. You are welcome.

  161. one of those who see

    Cat Daddy,

    thanks for the Viktor E. Frankl quotes. Wow! And thanks for the clip, Marty. I had never heard of him. Am finishing a novel now, then will look into his books.

  162. Chris Thompson

    1. What is SP hall exactly (I get the general idea)
    2. Who knows who is there?
    3. Is Russ Bellin really there? Tom Vorm?

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