OT VIIIs to Objectives – the latest in Reverse Scientology

Our wonderful multiple viewpoint system tells us that DM has been ordering OT VIIIs back to objectives, one hundred hours of them no less.  For the bots who scoff at Steve Hall, Amy Scobee and others telling of DM blanket ordering of SO OTs back to six month Purification Rundowns, tortuous Cause Resugence Rundowns (running program as punishment), and arbitrary  re-dos of Grades and NED – I’ve got one bit of advice for you:

“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

and by that time no one was left to speak up.”

 Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

As to what DM’s latest breakthrough might accomplish for the state of mind of the recipients, I leave that to your understanding of the tech,and  discussions lead by great minds like Jim Logan and Dan Koon and Chris Black and Haydn James and Tom Martiniano, and, and…

548 responses to “OT VIIIs to Objectives – the latest in Reverse Scientology

  1. Wow! Not a surprise. He’ll soon end up putting them on the introspection rundown with R3RA. Then you’ll have it made.

  2. Nightmares Getting Less

    This is a classic example of EXECUTIVE C/Sing.

    Strictly forbidden in C/S Ser 84 The Ivory Tower Rule.

  3. Any OT VIII who accepts this order isn’t really OT VIII in my book!

  4. LRH summed it up in HCOB 2 Aug 1965, RELEASE GOOFS:

    “The first goof relating to Releases is the one done for fifteen years–running past a free, floating needle on any type of process. THIS is the goof that held back all Scientology. And if it continues to be done, known as well as it is now that you mustn’t, one can only consider it suppressive–not just ignorant–as who now doesn’t know you wreck a Release by running past the floating needle?”

  5. If I had the earth fiscal credits, would be alright.

  6. More than angry >(

    If Martin Niemöller doesn’t do it for you, there’s always Martin Luther King:

    “He who lives with untruth lives in spiritual slavery. Freedom is still the bonus we receive for knowing the truth. “Ye shall know the truth,” says Jesus, “and the truth shall set you free.” …I agree with Dante, that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality. There comes a time when silence becomes betrayal.” – MLK

    To the person who recently told me he was waiting to see which side ‘wins’ (before deciding which side to take) – get some really good air conditioning. You’ll need it later.

  7. The only ‘blanket’ CS I know, that is part of any Standard Tech, that is Scientology Standard Tech, is the Grade Chart. It is apparent under DM’s direction, that is ‘missing’.

    It is totally out-tech to re-run a process that has EPed. Any person who has opened up an Academy Level pack knows this. It’s ALL over the 64-65 Tech materials on Rehabs, Releases, Overrun. It violates the Codes, it violates the material on End Phenomena. It would even violate the recipe to make Crackerjack for f’s sake.

    The question is: what problem is DM trying to solve?

    With that string pulled, then his arbitrary ‘Executive CSing’ as a ‘solution’ (that is, the introduction of an arbitrary) would predict just how fouled up those undertaking and those undergoing this…well this ‘stuff’.

    I’m going to hazard a guess. With the Golden Age of Tech introduced, added to by that gem, the redefining of an FN, and the nugget of redifined ‘instant reads’, DM’s ‘grade chart’ is not actually handling cases and BPC, but is creating cases and BPC. He now has to cancel all auditing that has been done under the nightmare of the above, and restart from the beginning, just to ensure that NO BODY GETS UP THE BRIDGE. That is the problem DM is trying to solve.

    I think, cynically perhaps, that DM is making sure that any person that may have gotten by his gauntlet of squirrel gibberish and suppressive inval, is ‘caught’. This is his version of the ‘qual’ hat. Make sure nobody and nothing ‘quals’. Overrun the whole public and staff just to make sure there aren’t any stragglers. And never, not once, not ever, go back and review the various ‘Whys’ that have been enforced and from which this fiasco originates.

    As to exact technical references this is somewhat on the order of, pick up a pack, any pack, and open it. There you will find a reference contrary to this god-awful mess.

    I would like to see freindsoflrh.com do a piece on this in their cogent style.

  8. right !
    I know of an OT IV that has redone the objectives. He is doing business day and night but doesn’t have enough money to survive.
    What a product ! He did it in a class IV Org and his twin was a new student.
    One major out-point is I think also that nearly no class VIII and class VI are made. They would, if also being a class IX produce OT’s that this universe never have seen of. Too powerful !
    Was it Lrh’s idea to call a Nots Auditor a class IX ?
    Why do they not do the levels before it (class 6,7 and 8) ?
    MOQ ?

  9. and, and, and …

    Mary Jo Leavitt OT VIII,

    Silvia Kusada New OT7,

    Sherry Katz OT VIII and

    OT VIII,
    OT VII,
    OT VI,
    OT V,
    OT IV,
    OT III

    and, and, and…

    ME just saying…

  10. Joe Howard

    Well, this latest strategy makes perfect sense given the situation that the money is drying up big time. The Idle Orgs truly are idle. I received a report not two minutes ago about how one allegedly “Ideal Org” was empty in the middle of the day.

    So, let me ask you this: if YOU were the head of a worldwide movement that was cratering like the US housing market and your one remaining public were the wealthy Kool-Aid drinkers what would YOU do if your stable datum in life was to ALWAYS take the path of LEAST resistance to the MOST money?

    First, he set up the RTC stat (and thus his own personal stat and pay and bonuses) based on the smallest flow of public, i.e., those at the very top of the Bridge who require the least amount of work for the most return in GI.

    Then, as things began to dry up at Flag, he delivered a stake to the heart of the Class V Orgs (and pc’s cases) by pulling Grades pcs to Flag for “new, faster Grades,” while reportedly blaming me for assembling the 1987 Expanded Grades Process Checklists which are the “Why” for pcs taking overlong on Grades. (Of course, DM never admits that HE was the one hammering RTRC to find every single process the length and breadth of LRH materials to include on those checklists or that he personally nitpicked each process requiring late one night that I write 50 individual CSWs for a batch of processes being proposed for addition and that he personally signed off each CSW. But that’s a story for another day.)

    Now we find OT VIIIs being programmed for Objectives and I assume they are going to be paying Flag rates for these. Objectives that were once the heart and soul of the $75 HQS Course that brand new public co-audited to great results.

    I would love to be looking over DM’s shoulder next week at this year’s Maiden Voyage Anniversay cruise aboard the Freewinds as he announces this latest International Why to an audience of debt-ridden, Internet-reading OT VIIIs.

    I would give anything to see the looks on their faces to see how far out of valence they can push themselves to appear to still be with the program.

  11. LOL, Sad but true. I had a pair from AO come knocking on my door with Great News from the C/S and wouldn’t I just come in for a D of P to get it. I had heard about this so stated loudly that I hoped it wasn’t something like redoing my objectives or something really stupid like that. Instant silence and blanched faces. I told them to mail it to me instead. NO word as yet.
    Amazing-What’s next, mocking up more case for them to run out- oops! that’s already being done.

  12. Theoracle,

    Thank you for your heartwarming post on the last thread. IT says all !


  13. Martin Gibson

    I found this in “the story of a squirrel” NOT LRH… but this is: RULE FOUR: ALWAYS C/S the pc for his own gain, not for any other purpose. The purpose of auditing is to help the pc, not to remedy social or organizational ills. If this is followed, those same ills vanish. If this is not followed, the ills are multiplied. The purpose of auditing is to help the pc become more able as a being and has no part in discipline or ‘getting even’

    So the ‘solutions’ to the ‘problems’ actually perpetuates the original problem. Thats covered in Grade 1 I am fairly sure, but explicitly as per above: “If this is not followed, the ills are multiplied.” LRH
    I came accross that data reading the counter PR on Marty “is a squirell” site. Just to clarify the level of intelligence it instructed to A=A with the data on Mayo (please do not in anyway think I agree with any rubbish spoken about him), with the concept of Marty, and so replace any current ARC with the ARC levelled at the “squirrel” and used ridicule etc (through-out the other comments, instructions on ow to think about the data) as leverage against rationality to further lay in the enforced (and false) data. It blew my mind digesting an instruction to NOT use differentiation but to use IDENTIFICATION when time, place, form and “events” were ALL different. Thats how to make someone dumb.

    Anyway, thought it fitted in here as to how LRH has viewed this type of suppressive c/sing:

    “The purpose of auditing is to help the pc, not to remedy social or organizational ills. If this is followed, those same ills vanish. If this is not followed, the ills are multiplied. The purpose of auditing is to help the pc become more able as a being and has no part in discipline or ‘getting even’” LRH

  14. Programming down the bridge, this is bound to wake a few people up to the out-tech. How do OT 8’s do this? Full price intensives or co-audit? On the ship only?

  15. Marty, I think that poem is about people being rounded up, imprisoned and killed. Not sure how it relates to people being rounded up and asked to pay for nonsense services. I’ll take a sauna over a gas chamber any day.


  16. Um, I thought OTVIII’s were supposed to be the best and brightest of Scientology. This whole thing seems to be coming apart at the seams.

  17. Watching Eyes

    My first thought when I read this was SURELY now people will see there’s a madman running the show. Then reality set in. I’m afraid there are some Kool Aid drinkers who will take another swig and sign up for their Objectives.

    My second thought was how easy it should be now for the OT 8’s to ask for a refund for the Solo NOT’s Certainty course. After all, it was the dwarf who “personally C/S’d everyone’s folders” (gag me) and ordered everyone onto that course. If the dwarf’s expert C/Sing was so correct and spot on, would they now be needing Objectives? No. Unless of course they’re Kool Aid drinking, brain dead pod-people who never had any certainty in LRH’s tech in the first place.

  18. OMG I am speechless, well, not quite: what GROSS eval, inval, and degredation. My OT VIII mom is at the “comfort” phase of cancer according to her doctor. (+/- 6 months, to body death) She’s a fighter, getting blood tests and checking out various options to build her body up to fight the disease and is getting real assists. Thank god she’s off lines, with no desire to go back.

  19. I don’t know about OT VIIIs, but I recently spoke with a fellow I know very well who has been in the S.O. all his life (he’s 36 years old). He’s been at RTC and Gold for 20 years. In all that time he has been audited up to Grade 0. 5 years ago his wife was sent to the RPF. She’s still there with no end in sight.

    Instead of continuing UP the Grade Chart, he is on his THIRD time through 100 + of Objectives….with no hope in sight. He routinely works 3 days straight with no sleep and has taken only one week of vacation in the past 20 years.

    Tragically, no one could make this stuff up. It’s happening.

  20. Marty, Brilliant quote. Anyone remaining has completely lost any knowingness of Scientology and LRH.

    If this does not wake up those who are left, then they can stay and start all over again because they did not get it the first time around.

  21. Clearly, he thinks this will flatten them on “Control.” What that says about the current uncontrollable state of OT VIIIs is fairly obvious.

    Miscavige is flailing around for a handle, and will only disaffect more and more members in the process. When a person realizes it is all just a game, it’s nothing to step to the sidelines and wait for the clock to run out. Or go play a different game. His authority is built on an eroding foundation of agreement, and no amount of bullying can shore up that much sand.

  22. I personally love objectives run properly and to EP, no more, no less. But I believe this blanket “remedy” will actually help some people recover from being scattered all over the track from whole track overt chains that were unnecessarily audited due to mismetering on falsley defined instant reads and invalidated F/N’s. But I believe this new “breakthrough” is the result of no OT 9 and 10 available for delivery, as you described some months ago. When you think about it, the target of all Orgs being St Hill size as a requisite for OT 9 and 10 to be delivered was another ploy to cover the fact of not being able to deliver the goods, as it always seemed to be an undoable suppressive target. As always, thanks for the data.

  23. As further note, unfortunately, these processes will likely be overrun as well.

  24. Just below the post is an AC360 Scientology Story ad by Google Ads. Priceless…

    By the way, if you click on it, DM-bots will see your IP address and from which page you are coming from.

  25. I’ve witnessed Miscavige call staff members to stand in front of him while he asked, “What’s your case level?” They would reply. Then, while making all kinds of facial expressions and body gestures to show just how deluded he thought you were, he’d proclaim, “No, you’re not!” End of conversation.

    Miscavige doesn’t just physically assault people, he messes with their minds. He’s dangerous because he’s evil with a sick agenda, in my view.

  26. ILove2Lurk

    Wow, just wow!

    I have nothing else to sell or mortgage though.

  27. Fellow Traveller

    I will continue to support those who already speak so articulately. I continue to thank y’all, whether “exposed” or not.

    I will try to speak louder and more clearly.

    Some people do not apparently want to hear.

    Bruce Pratt

  28. Is there an LRH reference anywhere, anyplace in space and time, that calls for an OTVIII to re-do grades, etc.? If so, where?

    Is there anyone in the CoS that would actually place LRH ahead of DM when it comes to a tech matter? Answer: Yes, but they are indy’s by now, or on their way to being one. Otherwise, I cannot see how ANY TRUE OT can accept such vulgar perversion of tech without question.

    The more I see, the more I can accept that DM is truly creating The Church of Reverse Scientology. I had a hard time accepting it at first, but the facts do not lie.

    Still in shock.

    Sovereign Scientologist

  29. Hey Marty,

    Your new Adsense is being used to promote the AC360 Freedom Mag site. You can block certain advertisers in your Adsense control panel.

    This is the page that is being advertised on your blog:


  30. In addition to squeezing more money out of these OT VIIs, this seems to be about DM showing all the C of M OTs who is the Big Boss in his “church.” He must sit there and laugh and laugh at how these OTs actually do what he orders them to do. What a greedy control freak.

  31. rory medford

    the mental manipulation is straight up and vertical

  32. The more Miscavige enters his bright ideas into the Tech scene, the busier I get.

    I like to call this “Miscavige’s Independents Recruitment Program.”

  33. Marty,

    It never ceases to amaze me how every action of DM’s that comes up for discussion is covered in HCO POLICY LETTER OF 7 AUGUST 1965, SUPPRESSIVE PERSONS, MAIN CHARACTERISTICS OF. Whether it’s mistreating staff, destroying management, blocking orgs, ruining Scientology’s repute, his personal crimes or his blanket, one size fits all, executive C/Sing that re-programs one and all back down the grade chart. It’s all covered in that LRH policy. This latest atrocity is no exception.

    In that policy letter LRH says:

    “6. …SPs are happy when their pcs get worse and sad when their pcs get better … 8. AN SP IN AN EXAMINER POST WILL ONLY DECLARE RELEASED THE BAD RESULT CASES AND WILL NOT PASS ACTUAL RELEASES BUT WILL ARC BREAK THEM. 9. Covert invalidation is the level of an SP’s social intercourse. An SP can only restimulate another, he has no power of his own. 10. An SP deals only in restimulation, never easing or erasing. 11. The persons around an SP get so restimulated they can’t detect the real SP.”

    Normally, no self respecting OT would buy this crap, but being so restimulated by DM many will be unable to spot the cause, which is a crying shame because I suspect that a number of OTs starting to ask embarrassing questions has led to this assault upon them – an effort to quash a budding revolt.

    What an implant vicious circle – Miscavige suppresses Scientologists including OTs who lose gains as a result. Miscavige then explains that away by indicating that those OTs never really made the grade case-wise and illegally programs them back down the grade chart. The OTs buy it because they’re running around trying to figure out what’s wrong and Miscavige’s latest pontification fills that vacuum.

    That’s one hell of an implant, driven in with every unnecessary command to touch that wall, for a hundred hours no less.

  34. It’s for real. I didn’t know about OT 8’s specifically, but I have friends who are “verified clears” who have been programmer for Objectives because “it doesn’t run the case, only your ability to run case, so it can only help”.

  35. Quicksilver

    Well, this will really be a turning point for many OTs

    This type of blanket c/sing/programming will have definite repercussions – there will no doubt be a few pissed-off people.

    I remember a few years ago when most of us (public) sitting in the Nots lounge had our Clear states cancelled … talk about having the bottom drop out from under you in the middle of a major action – a lot of sad faces wondering WTF!?!

    I wonder if these ‘hundreds’ of hours will have to be done by a Class VIII/IX at Flag rates rather than a student auditor … ugh

  36. martyrathbun09

    Haydn, about as accurate it gets.

  37. martyrathbun09

    yo, I like the advertisements. I can’t think of a production that demonstrates what we’ve been saying about the c of m better.

  38. martyrathbun09

    This is DM’s OT IX

  39. rory medford

    T Paine,

    its just a matter of time before the house built on sand sinks. Be patient, the flock is coming. What the independents are doing has opened my eyes and the truth on how DM is destroying SCN is slowly but surely being exposed and people are waking up to the insanity, force and out tech!!!

  40. And the little man can make that evaluation without much auditing or training himself????

  41. As to the question, would a C/S ever ask and OT VIII to do objectives? Certainly NOT as a broad statement, that is blatent out tech.

    However, if you had an OT VIII who wasn’t satisfied with his gain, and you discovered as a C/S that he was started on Op pro by Dup and it was never flattened, certainly somewhere in the program would be “flatten Op pro by Dup.”

    But that is a specific. All Miscavige is doing is mass invalidation of case and gains.

    All the C/Ses there, if they are following D.M.’s orders must be PTS. What he was suggesting? ordering? ranting about? is totally squirrel.

  42. Virgil Samms

    This has been a habit of DM – Blanket C/Ses. And blanket C/Sing, as you can assume, is not what LRH says to do with a case. Per HCOB 28 Sept 1982 C/S Series 115 MIXING RUNDOWNS AND REPAIRS LRH says:
    “RULE FOUR: ALWAYS C/S the pc for his own gain, not for any other purpose. The purpose of auditing is to help the pc, not to remedy social or organizational ills. If this is followed, those same ills will vanish. If this is not followed, the ills multiply. The purpose of auditing is to help the pc become more able as a being and has no part of discipline or “getting even.”

    DM uses auditing to get even. He used super power processes such as the running program to get even with staff. This I’ve seen with my own eyes.

    Putting VIII’s back onto Objectives and – AND – for 100 hours is blanket C/Sing at best and extrememe evaluation/invalidation.

    Sure, some of the products of the upper OT levels need to be repaired, but that is up to the C/S and NO ONE ELSE.

    Back in the early 80’s orgs and missions were “recycling clears”. In other words they would declare someone clear and because the pc had lots of money, the tech sec was ordered to “undeclare” the clear and put him/her on FPRD or just take the clear on put him on FPRD for more money/VSD.

    Because OT VIII is not the full OT VIII, these VIII’s are having a little trouble. Oh yes, Davey, I was told that you chopped OT VIII in half and only delivered the first half. The 2nd half is slated to be OT IX. A little bird told me before you declared him.

    The purpose of putting the PCs back onto Objectives, is that it will generate more money for FSO – then reserves. Plus putting OTs on Objectives shove them into their heads causing somatics and then a lot more money spent on auditing.

    What you’re going to find with any VIII that is complaining is that he or she is not TRAINED for what they are doing in the world or not trained as auditors. LRH said time and again that half the gains are on the right side of the Grade Chart.

    Davey is real easy to read – just follow the money and you got him figured out.

    ML Tom

  43. This is insane. If OT VIIIs are not in present time, and in communication with the physical universe, then the C of M is in even more trouble than I thought.

    This would be laughable if it wasn’t so harmful at the same time. It is like Flag is holding the doors open for people and kicking them in the butt on their way out, never to return.

  44. A couple of weeks ago I spoke to a ship reg about my account, just had a question, no big deal, and he suddenly originated that I wouldn’t be able to get a refund. This was totally out of the blue, as I hadn’t mentioned refund, and I wasn’t upset about anything, just had an innocent question. I’ve never been to the ship, haven’t spoken to any reg in years, I’ve been off lines but I’m in good standing.
    Isn’t that totally weird? This personn must get the refund subject coming up often in order to just casualy mention it out of the blue. Maybe the OT 8’s are waking up?

  45. I feel extremely sorry for the C/Ses who will be forced to write r-facs for these guys. I know exactly what that feels like and its horrible and I’m sure any questioning from OTs and C/Ses will be “handled” by the justifications I was given.

    See my article on Steve’s site.


  46. He has been doing this kind of crap for over 20 years. I myself was a victim of executive CSing crap and many others on this blog have too.

    He is running out of prey at Int so who better to go after but the paying public.


    There are none that call for any such blanket C/S but two that explain it.



    I can see it now:

    OT 8: “But I don’t want to re-do objectives, it’s not right!”

    DM: “You should have thought of that before you stopped donating and started asking questions! Do you want to go for 200 hours?”

    OT8: “No … no”.

    DM: “I thought not, touch that wall”.

    In case anyone think I’m poking fun that this situation I can assure you I am not. I think it a tragedy not a comedy.

  48. The answer to this
    “The question is: what problem is DM trying to solve?

    is obvious: his own case.
    LRH observed that as well, the Execs tended to C\S others for the thing(s) they needed themselves.

    Which is why he established the Ivy Tower rule.
    DM has knocked that piece of tech completely out in the orgs, and made sure that anyone that tried to put it in was reverse processed, kicked off staff, RPF’ed or worse.

    But that is what the Reverse Technology Center does.

  49. crashingupwards

    Hi Caliwog. Your right about what the saying was about. And it was a perfect example to use in this situation. If OT8’s , who are at the top of the processing chart, allow out-tech, then they cannot expect much help from anyone else who has bad tech applied to them. In fact, since this is aimed at OT 8’s, I suppose it could be considered an “I told you so, now its your turn”. But I dont think Marty is gloating, I think he is still trying to ring that wake-up bell. Lets see if they wake up. After all, waking up from the trance the human race is in is part of the benefits of processing. If any OT8 is still unable to see it, he/she should hide their certs in a drawer, or us them for the cat to go on.

  50. Perfect clip Cat Daddy.

    And the sequel will be out in November —

  51. This Class IX was addressed fully on the Pro LRH Tech website.

    The issue of a new public on the Bridge and an OT IV ‘twinning on objectives’, well, that’s a whole new thing. That falls outside any playbook I know. We are into the land of high-pitched chirpy noises where trees are home and wintertime is always imminent. Cashews, almonds, filberts, these are the prize but any old acorn will do.

  52. Jim,

    I think it is a different problem.

    Nothing to deliver to OT VIIIs, so they slide off into the sunset and avoid registrars. With the promised OT IX and X nothing more than a figment of his imagination and Super Power still “near” to release after 20 years, what do you do with an OT VIII?

    Send them back to start over. Keeps them in line. Keeps them “moving on the [circular] Bridge” and keeps them handy for the IAS, Ideal Org, Super Power, Complete Your Library, CCHR, ABLE and DM Birthday Fund Drive vultures to grab each time they come out of session.

  53. Cali,

    Go right ahead. There is an empty sauna awaiting you in your closest Idle Org.

    If you can’t figure out the relevance of that quote, a Purif might help clear up your thinking.

  54. Gretchen,

    He is fully trained. He has read Machiavelli’s “The Prince” many times. Practically knows it by heart.

    Pretty much serves as his bible I would say.

  55. Lucy James

    This is disturbing. It’s nauseating.

    It makes one want to retch, puke, spew, upchuck, vomit etc.

    What a sleaze DM is. All for the almighty dollar.

  56. Caliwog,
    Spirtual murder vs. body death, been an age old debate. You’d take spiritual murder, am I reading that right?

  57. Sam excellent qoute

  58. Yoni,
    The best and the brightest of Scientology are those that apply the truths of the subject to enhance their own and others’ lives. That, as you can see if you’ve read this site or various others where that subject is actually being applied, is more or less ‘seamless’. Well put together. Toughest stuff I know.

  59. Oh, no kidding??! You think they would have to pay NOTS rates???? Or you just mean Flag rates??

  60. What won’t DM do for money? Pimp on Rodeo Drive?


  61. Overdriver

    Please…, are there no Scientologists around DM who did the PTS/SP Rundown…?
    Sorry, but you can’t blame everything on DM or you can but you never get the real why.

  62. Ouch.

  63. The usual DM operating basis, go to where there is nothing wrong, explain how everything is wrong, and for a few bucks or a few heads it can all be straightened out.

    I think he is a new type of PTS hitherto uncatagorized. It’s when everyone IS out to get you, and you don’t even notice.

  64. Awwwwwwww… I love that movie! Can’t wait for the sequel in September!

  65. Mike,
    I’ve read it too, only twice, and I can tell you he is squirrelling that one as well. The Prince’s power lays in the people.

    LRH told Annie to read it. I have her copy. Mein Kampf, that’s DM’s playbook. I read as much of it as I could stand.

  66. Oh darn Mary Jo you missed out on getting to redo your objectives!

    What are they going to do with Narconon? Put the heroin addicts on OT VIII?

    I was going to say jokingly that Mary Jo scared the hell out of DM!

    But it’s actually not a joke.

    DM’s trying to put the cat back in the bag, that still isn’t gonna work on the real OT’s.

  67. Mike,

    Last time I was at Flag the program being run on the VIIIs was ‘set-ups’ for OT IX and X (didn’t see too many VIIIs running off into the sunset). (apparently the ‘set ups’ for OT IX and X are oodles of FPRD – at NOTs rates of course.

    DM is just getting a bit more creative on his REG C/Sing.

    Which begs the question of whether they have to pay NOTs rates for the objectives.
    Considering it’s standard practice to charge NOTs rates for something as simple as Marriage Counseling then I would guess objectives would follow the same patter.

    OUCH – a hundred hours at NOTs rates.

  68. Virg,
    “DM uses auditing to get even. He used super power processes such as the running program to get even with staff. This I’ve seen with my own eyes. ”

    This, I have experienced, with my own feet.

  69. It’s very easy to explain. The Kool Aid drinkers will not suddenly be given whacked-out tech after many years of correct tech and be expected to swallow it. That’s not what will go down.

    They have been conditioned over many years to accept what DM and RTC says as being the epitome of technical perfection. After all, LRH gave RTC the duty to protect the tech and posted DM at the head of RTC. Alternatively, that’s the line they have been fed. But no matter, it’s what people have been conditioned to believe. Add in a whole truck load of not trained people, and their lack of knowledge leads them to believe what RTC says.

    So will many of them buy into this latest crap? Of course they will. They have been doing it for many years and will just continue to do what they are already doing.

    The variables are few and simple: if the numbers of people who are smart enough to reject DM’s crap reaches critical mass, then DM’s game is up. If DM fires a foot bullet and starts ordering C/Ses that are so out-gradient that even a fool can see it, then his game is up.

  70. Another Layer


    Thanks so much for your insights into how the 1987 Expanded Grades Process Checklists actually came about. Your posts and articles are huge breaths of fresh air.

  71. Watching Eyes

    I don’t think it has anything to do with OT 8’s creating cases and making no gains.

    I think it has everything to do with making more money. What a better way than to put people through the Grade Chart again & again. Milk them for everything he can…….until they’re either sick, dead or poor as church mice.

    Money is what drives the dwarf. Nothing else.

  72. Once again, the “foot bullet” is in play. But as this point, it’s more of a “butt mine”.
    If Davey could read and duplicate, he’d know this datum from Technical Downgrades: “To tell people they haven’t made it WHEN THEY HAVE is to get back hostility and a bad repute.”
    So hold onto your ass Davey because here comes mor hostility and more ill repute.
    But then, you probably know that and in your 1.1 style, it’s another ploy to destroy the existence of Scientology on this planet.

  73. Another Layer

    LOL!!! Yay, Trey!

  74. Tom,

    Well, blow me over with a feather. You just dropped a gigantic 20 ton bell on the marble floor. And by god, is it ringing:

    “Because OT VIII is not the full OT VIII, these VIII’s are having a little trouble. Oh yes, Davey, I was told that you chopped OT VIII in half and only delivered the first half. The 2nd half is slated to be OT IX. A little bird told me before you declared him.”

    With no disrespect to Marty and all the revelations he has posted here thus far, that one is the biggest of the big ones I have seen so far. If you have the necessary evidence, please make this the subject of a full post in it’s own right.

    The existing VIII’s out there deserve to know.


  75. Can’t help but wonder how anxious OT7s will be to do OT8… their future has just unfolded itself (lolol)!

  76. War and Peace

    The more you read of Miscavige’s conduct, the more one sees how unworkable it is to have an organization with no oversight and a madman running the show helter skelter, willy nilly with the battered SO members around doing his will.

    What is going on with the so called “Board of Directors” of CST ? CSI ? RTC ?

    Are these all just puppets and names on paper with no regular meetings, no power, just made up names of no consequence ? Normally a Board of Directors has the power to remove the
    President, the CEO, the man running the show when misconduct abounds. What is going on ?

    FSO continues to rake in $2million to $3 million a week (which by the way was their stat some 15 years ago) but it is still significant revenues from just services, this does not calculate donations for IAS world wide, Super Power Building, Library scams, and all the other reasons to milk the Parishioner funds.

    No oversight, no audit of any financial irregularities, PRIVATE INUREMENTS for DM’s personal gain and advantage has slowly escalated year by year by year.

    There is a complacency that DM’s Church is ABOVE THE LAW.

    Cruelty, sadism, perverting the tech, incarcerating SO members for YEARS in the RPF and so on have no WATCHDOG, no oversight, no appeal process, DM misusing the perverting funds for his own gain and his own protection via high priced lawyers to cover his misdeeds……truly a COMPLACENCY has set in.

    Marty, Mike Rinder and the other high profile ex so who speak out have somewhat jarred that complacency.

    But the fact that DM can continue to escalate his sadism, whimsically declare a Clear
    (Lisa McPherson) undeclare Case Levels verbally on the spot, show that there are no CHECKS and BALANCES to keep this Reptilian Predator in line.

    We have all seen what happened to WALL STREET and the Banks with no REGULATIONS and improper oversight ~~the sub prime mortgage fiasco. It brought the country to the edge….

    We are now witnessing the Gulf Oil Spill, again, the Oil Industry not being policed or made to meet with regulations and Safety and Hazard rules and policies.

    A continuous permissiveness of leaving DM at the helm will lead to a DMpocalyse unless INTERVENTION occurs and I praise and support all those working on that……

  77. Mike,

    Somewhere in there is the overt or covert but always complex and continuous determination to harm or destroy.

    Destruction is the game. DM is it’s name.

  78. Ex Int Staff Member

    Insider footage of key tech decisions being made at RTC Board meeting:

  79. Concerned Citizen

    perhaps in part, but I well remember his briefing on overrun at Flag, a few months before his breifing on false FNs with Sand Bags and all.
    He knows all too well wht an over run does, he knows how very destructive and damaging it is to run an uncharged anything.

    So I think it is more a combination of the 2.
    Some people managed to still apply standard tech here and there, and some people like Ignazio delivered the product. Some of these real OTs are seeing through this and creating some revelion. ( A friend of mine has been at Flag getting “sorted out” for a long time because he has noticed the out points) so introverted messed up cases are less troublesome, not to mention a lot more profitable.

    Has anyone noticed that the debug type services are a hughe income source? OT debug services at the Ship created more income than all other services combined for a while ( excluding conventions, which are being promoted as tools for bridge progress acceleration) so I think it is all 3 things,, wreck cases so no real OTs can challange him and he stops loosing his adoring fans. created a diversion so that they are not demanding OT IX and X and or Supper Power and cahs in their availability to reges and also from the debug services and repairs that will undoubtedly result.

  80. So true, and like Marty pointed out the videos on the Freedom mag site are a real boon!

  81. Supreme Inval.

    Ironically, it’s also an admission/declaration by the “church” corporation that they have failed to deliver.

  82. The seams will hold, at least to some extent, as long as “the calls” to show up, re-do, pay, fund, etc, keep getting responses of any kind.

  83. Of course, Miscavology’s idea of a “product” is an obedient, intimidated zealot. So the measures to get “compliance” on that are bound to get very drastic.

    David Miscavige is a nutty Squirrel.

  84. “his authority is built on an eroding foundation of agreement”

    That’s it, that’s all there is, brother! Just that simple statement, delivers so much truth on so many levels.

  85. CD, 🙂 That deserves caek

  86. I will take a hug with that 🙂

  87. Re latest OT VIIIs My God what next is going to
    Querstion any one reliable to infrom What is the case Level of David Miscaviage ? has he ever done the OT levels and who CSed him? I find this extremly of concern.

  88. Spelling errors excuse me.It should read question/and reliable to inform please what Case Level is David Miscaviage and has he done any OT levels at all?

  89. Ditto! But guess what I think the Running Program was awesome!

    I have seen with my own eyes unqualified CSing of someone who is very well known to everyone and OT VIII sent to the pole without passing go or collecting their thoughts like it was the end of the road/punishment and they were dirt on the bottom of a shoe.

    The prey of new blood is getting thin at Int; so the next people in his sights are the ones who have paid for their entire bridge….. There isn’t much more to offer so send them back to repeat it all over again.

    I think many many OT VIIIs will finally wake up and see the truth staring them in the face.

  90. DM is obvioulsy not himself , insane, taken over and any one who has leaks and commlines to those with the regime of DM and injust State of Life, living and not scientology at all it appears
    should be helped to be made aware and helped to get out no matter what.Post Build Boards all over the show wide spread the danger and corruption let it be heard and notice , or I can see we will have another David Korrish on our hands.

  91. I fully agree with Mike. How many redo’s has there been? That’s DM’s chow, allowance and bonus card.

  92. David Miscavige has likened himself to the Pope (as did the now obsolete Tommy Davis … what gulag is he in? But I digress…)
    At first it seems a very presumptuous title — but think again.

    Look at the history of the Vatican. Without listing them all here, one can easily find at least 12 corrupt Popes. The corruption took on everything
    from sexual escapades (using the Vatican to procure sexual favors, it was a brothel at one point, general pimping, etc) to the buying and selling of

    Obviously, the common citizen is in big trouble when a “power” is out to make slaves (i.e., “convert” worshippers).

    It became most dangerous when Papal States were created, which transformed the papacy from a spiritual power into a temporal power.

    Pope Boniface VIII, who promoted carnal hedonism and opulent excess issued the Unim Sanctum (November 18, 1302) which states:

    “Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff (pope)”

    This is a very key point.

    And this pivots around one very key and crucial truth and distinction that is also applicable to Scientology:

    These Popes and the offices they created (Vatican, Church) were very clearly (in hindsight) not Christianity, but abused Christianity for power, control and warped personal gratification.

    Self-appointed Pope David Miscavige (who usurped the power in a classically recorded style of corruption) and his “Church” Co$ are not Scientology.

    Some Scientology may get mixed in there, to keep the “faithful”, just as the monks who burned people were doing it for Love (twisted, eh?) — but the toxin, the injected venom of abusive intention, is systemic. Enter the “Church” and you will not get Scientology, just as the common citizen could not enter a Catholic Church without having ties to Papal whims.

    In the name of “spirituality”, the exact opposite of what is espoused is perpetrated — human abuse of grievous proportions (some seeming too incredible to believe.)

    Here, however, is the most tantamount thing to consider. Enter Myth Busters. The myth was the dupe run by many Popes, and was stated by Pope Boniface VIII: “it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

    Right? WRONG! And what was the purpose of that little myth (er, “Holy Decree” … cough, cough ) by the Pope? Do you think it was so people’s souls he was looking after? NOT. It was for Power. Personal power.

    Arbitrary power.

    The very word “corruption” comes from the Latin corrumpere, which means to break into pieces. Rompere means ‘to break.’ Integrity (integral) means ‘whole,’ unbroken.

    It was the artists and rebels who did not cow down to papal corruption of a “church” that pretended to follow an individual (Christ) who spoke of Love, and in his name massacred, tortured, stole, lied, embezzled while wallowing in gold chalices and red velvet robes.

    One of the most famous who refused to mistake a Pope for what is holy and spiritual is Michelangelo.

    Michelangelo was a spiritual, devout person. Later in his life, he became interested in Spiritualism, for which he was condemned by Pope Paul IV. Enter again key point: The fundamental tenet of Spiritualism is that the path to God can be found not exclusively through the Church, but through direct communication with God.

    Pope Paul IV interpreted Michelangelo’s Last Judgment, painted on the wall of the Sistine Chapel, as defaming the church by suggesting that Jesus and those around him communicated with God directly without need of Church.

    What were the consequences for poor Michelangelo? The Pope suspended his pension. He also ordered a group of artists (later derided as “britches makers”) to paint fig leaves and clothes over the nudes in Michelangelo’s fresco.

    Michelangelo’s body is not buried on the grounds of the Vatican, but is instead interred in a tomb in Florence — according to the artist’s wishes.

    So, what is going on right now with Scientology is not new. It’s obvious! Another reason a despot does not want “members” knowledgeable about history, philosophies, evolutions, is toward the same purpose as was Pope Boniface decree: You want God? You want your soul? You want heaven?… insert your dollars Here

    No wordly institution nor human being, nor nonhuman being, owns you (spirituality). You are your own spirituality. It is yours, it is ours alone.

    History abounds with examples that exemplify the same human aberration that has corrupted the “Church” of Scientology — different details, same aberration:

    In 954 the 18-year-old John XII, the son of a previous pope, took office and turned the Lateran (the papal palace before the Vatican) into a brothel.

    In the 1400s, Popes Leo X and Clement VII (the son and adopted son of Lorenzo the de Medici) had been raised in riches and splendors and were accustomed to the best of everything. When Leo became Pope he went on a spending spree that all but wiped out the Vatican treasury in a single year. Desperately short of cash to maintain his extravagant lifestyle, Leo authorized the sale of offices and indulgences on a massive scale, unprecedented in Church history. His excesses were carried on by his cousin/brother, Clement, and the Protestant Reformation was born.

    His Lowliness Pope David Miscavige is nothing new. He is a garden variety corksized despot, who’s only power is as a parasite. The “Church” of Scientology has become a termite infested log. The theta has become a host to the feeding frenzy of entities who themselves have no power to create, so they have hijacked the good, glorious hard work of L. Ron Hubbard, the individual who created it and left it as a legacy for all people of Earth to use as a tool toward an examined, enlightened life and spiritual freedom.

    Pope David Miscavige and the “Church ” is as much Scientology as the monks who broke people’s bones in the name of Jesus were Christianity during the Inquisition.

    The Inquisition was the most elaborate extortion racket ever devised, primarily developed for profit.

    After the arrest, the property of the accused was instantly confiscated. Nothing seems to have been returned. The popes publicly praised the rule of confiscation as a prime weapon against heresy. Confiscation took place before conviction, because it was taken for granted that no one escaped. Officials considered themselves safe in acting upon the presumption of guilt. Sometimes confiscation took place even before confession.

    Presumption of guilt. Ring a bell? What is Pope Miscavige’s demeanor toward his staff and public?  Low life-degraded beings-who have a ton of mis-Us and never-understood a thing they read until he came along saved the day and saved Scientology. And abusing the grade Chart as punishment, for God’s sake.

    The game is over, small time Popes. Earth has seen enough of the likes of you.

    Scientology exists — use it. You do not need a Pope to talk to God. In fact, there is the third wheel, the third party!

    In truth: happiness, enlightenment, peace of mind, improved conditions are between You and Infinite Life — which truly is about Love.

  93. Another Layer

    To each of the OTs who are still in the church under DM:

    Please, stand up for yourself … don’t go for the wacked-out out-tech blanket C/S regarding Objectives, or “unclear” declares, or anything else that violates your integrity. Please, disagree with what isn’t true for you.

    Above all, don’t let DM think he can capriciously control access to your eternity, or that he has convinced you it can be bought with book packages or IAS memberships or “proper” behavior.

    He has nothing to do with your eternity. It is and always has been YOURS, and yours alone.

    I am neither Clear nor OT. I look up to you. I need your leadership. This may be presumptuous, but I need you to wrest back your hat and take charge of your eternity.

  94. That is very telling. I spoke to a CLO EUS Sea Org member back in April. He was recruiting for D.C. org. After he introduced himself, I pleasantly greeted him. He was surprised (he had no idea about my standing in the church) and said “that’s not random to you?” I said no and he said “a lot of people hang up on me by now”. How sad!

  95. Jim,

    I believe that the running program – Cause resurgence rundown, is not part of the superpower rundown. There are facilities in the SP building for this, but it’s another Rundown by itself.

    Fully agree that DM uses this rundown as a penalty and ethics/justice action and has attached a bad stigma to this tech action! Especially done outside in 110F temperatures.

  96. You can never win if you play another man’s Game.

  97. Good job Louise, I hope you tell your story.

  98. Why did he say no refund, because LRH was stupid and he knows best?

  99. Joe Pendleton

    And……don’t tell me…..all these services have to be done on the ship……with paid accomodations of course…..and the OT VIII must stay until complete…..and upgrade his IAS status……Robin Williams once said that cocaine was God’s way of telling you that you had too much money …….well, I guess if these folks can keep paying or WILL keep paying…… money, money, money……..

  100. Hey Louise!

    Nice to see you here! You are very welcome amongst friends.

    For those former Flag/Int SO members, Louise is Rachel Donohue’s sister.


  101. Likely its just OT-9 preps … now just Objectives for OT-8’s, likely followed by Power-Grades for OTs, then Expanded Super Dianetics for OTs, and the “New” Uber-Wall of Fire Co-audit, etc. … lol

    That DM … amazing little puppy. Knowingly and deliberately thrusting ahead full steam committing overts against LRH and Standard Tech. He can no longer stop himself. Miscavige is a picture-perfect example of someone who knows Scientology doesn’t work. Hence KSW is disregarded. He has no business being on Tech Lines he has never trained for.

    Nothing to deliver to OT VIIIs, so they slide off into the sunset and avoid registrars.

    … and surf the net perusing Independent Scientology Sites.

  102. Freedom Fighter


    Welcome to freedom! True freedom! I totally know what you mean about putting your life back together and trying to make some sense of it all. Looking forward to reading your five-page story when you’re ready..

  103. Joe Pendleton

    And where may I ask is ANY personal integrity (or true knowledge of the subject) with any tech person who accepts non LRH/offline tech advice? I found out during the KSW campaign of about 5 years ago, that the Sea Org personnel I was dealing with at an SO service org ONLY referred to the last part of KSW, of course as a way of having me do their bidding (money, staff). The hope for the future of Scientology is the independant movement and the abolishment of the church as we now know it. NO MORE control of people’s lives – their 2D, liberty, finances, etc. That is NOT “total freedom.”

  104. It should read question/and reliable to inform please what Case Level is David Miscavige and has he done any OT levels at all?

    Provisional Class IV auditor (basic training level), A very partial and Incomplete Organizational Executive course. Incomplete on OT 7, yet has been allowed to read and contribute to the creation of OT8. Has not been interned as an auditor by another more experienced or Hubbard trained Case Supervisor or auditor.

    From —> http://www.upperbridge.org//wedding.html

  105. OUCH! That sounds really painful!

  106. Joe Pendleton

    Objectives for OTs? yeah, another “product” people must buy ….”OOTS”…..”I just got done with 7. I’m going to the ship next week for 8 and OOTs”……Then “grades for OTs”….”GOTs”..

    Uhm…how about all the 8s becoming pro Cl. Vs as a pre-req for 9? Oh, too much involved with too little money paid.

  107. UnDisturbed

    Another Layer:

    Beautifully stated.

  108. Hey Louise,
    Can you effect a comm to Rachel and get her out of the PAC RPF?
    I was w3ith her tel Feb 08. We’d known each other for years. Sh’s hangin’ in there and belongs out here.

  109. First
    NOTs rates because they ‘need Class IXs’ Take it from an OTV who’s auditing got veeeeeery expensive.

  110. >Is there an LRH reference anywhere, anyplace in space and time, that calls for an OTVIII to re-do grades, etc.?

    I’ll take a WAG. If you look at this from the admin side, rather than the technical side, does it not align with HANDLING THE PUBLIC INDIVIDUAL? It’s a long shot, I know.

    I think Mike Rinder had it right – OT VIIIs are a group willing to spend money but with nothing to spend it on. Scientologists are reeling from all those book re-releases and re-buys, so DM has to find a new way to get them spending money. It’s like I always say, DM just isn’t as good at this stuff as his former mentor.

    One would think that DM would simply either release OT IX or write it himself. How hard could it be?


  111. LOUISE!
    YOU DID IT!!!!!
    WOW! damn good job 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
    I know (and everyone else should) that you had to handle a lot to take this step.
    After I witnessed the little stunt that was pulled on you at Saint Hill in an attempt to get you in line, I would like to join you in that inelegant salute and point it in the direction of a certain MAA with the following message:
    Booya Louise.

  112. Alan,

    This is from http://www.upperbridge.org/OT8PLUS.htm

    The viewpoint and research of a Cl XII now out:

    OT VIII was originally written up in 1969. Around 1983, LRH wrote the final piece of that Rundown, a final step intended to polish up and stabilize the results.

    Either deliberately, or perhaps, more accurately, as a direct result of the unawareness brought about by the burden of heavy overts, the individuals responsible for compiling OT VIII, for its 1989 release aboard the Freewinds, entirely disregarded the original OT VIII materials and merely released the “final piece” as if it were the entire Rundown. The rest is History. In spite of the carefully controlled hype, the original release of OT VIII went like a lead balloon. Within just three months, well over 10% of its original public completions were dropping off like flies either dead or seriously ill, or victim of an accident or a crime. Many of the “younger public” were either tepid about the results or per actual session records, simply incapable of running the level with any substance or reality. The actual technical reason is actually not hard to imagine. Beside the fact that they were missing the majority of the rundown, younger public had never done the Original OT VII. The Original OT VII is a beautiful Level that has a lot to do with the ability to project one’s Intention across. OT VIII was originally developed assuming everyone would have done OT VII prior to it. ”

    Others may have other viewpoints, or data to add.

  113. Rodeo Drive ain’t no Ho stroll.

  114. No thanks, Mike. I’ve had enough of LRH’s “tech” for several lifetimes. 🙂


  115. Tony DePhillips

    To coincide with Marty’s message, I would like to say that the more people come out, the faster other people will follow.

    Imagine this: An Org area that has about 200 semi active public and tons of inactives that the others know about. Let us say that the Indie field is at about 50. With this many out and known by the people still active at the Org this would create major upheavil. People “on lines” would start talking about it.

    I just spoke to a guy who knows me very well as a volunteer Chaplain from the Org. He told me that he heard that I had been declared and SP. I said ” that I had heard the same.” I asked him if he wanted to disconnect from me? He said NO WAY, your not an SP! He said ” You were on Solo Nots, so you had to make case gain! SP’s don’t make case gain! I said “Either that or I am an SP and they have been taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from me without giving me any case gain, which would be criminal in itself”. He agreed. I told him to watch the Truth Rundown and to check out Marty’s blog and he pulled it up on the computer while we spoke and said he would!!

    That was a nice win!! (forced applause LOL)

  116. >The question is: what problem is DM trying to solve?

    I truly believe it is purely down to his own issues with the subject, with noncomprehension (why else would he squirrel?) and his personal difficulties with training.

    GAT, instant reads, F/Ns, even The Basics to some degree – all have been enforced on others due to HIS own inability to understand and apply Scientology effectively imho.

  117. Not quite, Jim – I don’t believe in LRH’s model of spirituality, and I don’t think that shelling out a few thousand bucks to get on the cans and answer inane questions will kill your spirit. Your bank account, yes. Your spirit, no.


  118. UnDisturbed


    Very Beautifully Stated

  119. windwalker


    I am pretty sure you are incorrect about LRH making DM the head of RTC. Not how I read the story.

    Prove me wrong.

  120. Spot on!

    Never permit your affinity to become alloyed.

  121. Thought Provoking

    That’s a great win, Tony!

  122. windwalker


    “It is like I always say, DM just isn’t as good at this stuff as his former mentor”

    You really always say this? What are you pushing here? I feel sly inuendo and outright LRH bashing.

    Am I wrong?


  123. Thank you T Pain….

    I never made it to my OT levels (and damn glad I didn’t in the Church of, now), but there just seems something extraordinarily wrong with telling an OTVIII that they HAVE to do Grades, etc. I can understand if it is determined that a prior process was not flattened, but EVERYONE?

    You would think there would be a mass protest against this, or at least someone would stand up and say, WHAT?? NO WAY!!

    I wonder how many independents we will gain from this? Hmm, perhaps it is good that DM is such a squirrel. Slowly, he will flush all the OT’s out of the church and into our group, and the church will remake itself into an irresistable force for the betterment of all. No pet projects, no add ons, no other fish to fry. Just crankin out the OT’s.

    Just sayin’.


  124. rory medford

    DM will end up n the hole like all of the other destructive controlling leaders. Every evil and violent leader follows the same path, a self destructive one at that. How he goes down is anyones guess BUT he will go down if he continues on the path he is following.

  125. While I was at the base, I saw DM take out (or render powerless) the various corporate officers one by one (RTC, CST, ASI, CSI). If he did not remove them from their corporate positions, he degraded and suppressed them to the point where they were incapable of wearing their corporate officer hats, and wouldn’t dare try. (and how can you when you’re locked up in the hole?) About the only one “standing” when I left was Russ Bellin of CST, but that was back in ’02 and I believe even he was in the hole within a few years of that.

    Marty, Mike and others can probably elaborate if they wish, as they have much more contemporaneous data.

    If this happened in any other corporation and it was found out about, the dude would be in jail. It’s a whole other can of worms.

  126. That the Snr C/S Int office and Class XII auditors, nay WDC and IMEC, nay IG’s, as a group, couldn’t keep the lid on this before it became a Why for the plurality of Pre-OT’s on the planet, befitting a worldwide mandate; on their own without COB of all people, who is above comm-ev due to lack of peers; having to step in and correct the SP squirrel tech hierarchy with his own two rolled up sleeves, and his own sweat beaded brow, and his own glistening muscular body, especially the shoulders, speaks volumes for the number of times over datum incarnate, COB, having M1-9’d the core canon too many times to prudently mention, that being the red vols.

  127. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Are you serious? There is someone out there that is “waiting to see which side ‘wins’”? That is all they care about the on-sourceness of the tech they get?


  128. Quicksilver

    Gee, nicely said, Another Layer!!

    Well, you sound pretty damn OT to me!

  129. Hey Louise,

    Great to see you here – Rachel is an old friend.


  130. Louise,

    Congratulations. I’m all misty eyed. I knew your sister, not well but enough to know she was a sweet and smiling person. I didn’t know she’s been on the RPF all this time. I’m sorry.

    I hope you can breath easier now and move on up to where you want to be.


  131. Tony,

    Great story and win! (Applause!)

  132. Applause AND a standing O (a spontaneous one)!

  133. Hello Louise!

    Welcome to the bright side of the road.

    Everybody now, Fingers UP!

  134. V, WOW! Beautifully written.

  135. Harold L. Ickes

    I create nothing. I own. — Gordon Gekko

    Thank you for reminding me of one of my favorite films of all times.

  136. Virgil Samms

    Splog and Tom. It wasn’t as innocuous as that.

    I was the Mission I/C of the original MV – when OT VIII was released. Snr C/S Int, Jeff Walker, told me, two days before we opened the OT VIII courseroom, that DM and Ray decided to only deliver the 1st half of OT VIII. I asked Jeff why. He said: “For money, what else?” He said the other half of OT VIII will be OT IX.

    I went and asked Ray, who was IG Tech at the time, if this were true. He got a little missed withholdy and asked me where I got my info. I wouldn’t tell him and he got pissed at me. He figured it out.

    The next thing I knew Jeff confronted me and called me a rat. I told him I didn’t tell Ray, but he was still pissed and we almost came to blows. But I calmed Jeff down. I told him we cannot deliver justhalf of fucking OT VIII and that it was a cuttative. He said plainly to me and as sensibly as he could – “Nothing we’re going to do about it.”

    I couldn’t tell you if DM decided to include the 2nd half after the MV, but during it, I was feeling unsure of what I was doing and who I was hanging with. After that, I had a M/WH from every OT VIII I evermet. What an overt I was involved in.

    So there. I let the cat out. Enjoy it.

    ML Tom

  137. Joe Howard

    Sinar, right. Super Power is from 1978. Running Program is 1982. Years apart. Nothing to do with one another, except they aren’t being delivered in the same unfinished building.

  138. Martin Gibson

    I think part of the parcel being run by DM is the fact that, as LRH said, in London Congress on Dissemination and Help, “If Ron did it that way, it must be right” which meant he could flub a session, but the pc thought it was just a new piece of tech. DM taking over the ALTITUDE LRH had is getting away with overt products.
    There is also the data in PTS/SP that a person needs a terminal to search and discover the SP, its a chicken or the egg problem, there is NO ethics officers to handle the situation. Scientologists may be the top 10 percent of the top 10 percent, but, as the situation has been going on so long, the percentage of PTS’s are out of proportion. Scientologists, alas, within the walls of the Church may well be in the 20 percent categorised as PTS.

    I came into scientology to find freedom/get help. I had too an irresponsible a view, now I need to study and verify the entire subject myself and apply it, shoulder to shoulder with others of the same attitude.

    It is the only way out.

  139. Joe,

    Spot on analogy! I mean, at some point, puleeze, somebody pull the plug ‘cuz these spirits have blacked out!

  140. Lady Lancelot

    Bravo! Well said War and Peace. You’ve nailed it. No oversight, a prescription for disaster.

  141. Because I was not on my OT levels at the time of the release (or should I say re-release) of NEW OT VII and VIII, what was the technical reason why all those who had previously comped were ordered back onto those levels?

    Wouldn’t this violate the policy you just quoted?

  142. Awesome Louise! Thanks for joining us. 🙂 🙂 🙂

  143. Veritas:
    WOW. Excellent whole track perspective. Really lays it out. Thanks for sharing it.

  144. Chris Thompson

    “THEN THEY CAME for me
    and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
    How dare you use these honorable words. You were the bad guys. You were the gestapo. You ruined lives. Still using “positioning” to pretend you are some kind of hero. Doesn’t fit.

  145. Excellent Tony! I agree 100%. Each person coming out creates a safe space and effects on others who can then follow. And they are doing so. 🙂

  146. Hey Tony,

    Very well done. You are a big deal in Seattle and many other places, I”m sure. You’ve got my respect. There are many who will follow your lead.
    I never agreed to the building game as I was familiar with the PL on the building fund allocation in the weekly financial planning and all this high drama regging just seemed wrong. I wildly protested the “BASICS” as I had so many wins reading the books, that the whole program just did not seem right, particularly having done KTL.

    This crap really takes the cake. Blanket CSing is any self-respecting pc’s nightmare. Totally suppressive inval, minimally! Try being a fast pc with this idiocy.
    Beings with overts can’t see so that makes the illustrious David Misgavage, extraordinarily blind. He is clueless to the truth but the exodus is coming sooner than he thinks.
    I hope Mark Arnold wakes up and a few others up there that I really cared for.

    This morning I was reviewing the videos of Helmut Flash and this is exactly what he spoke of!
    I am so glad I had the nerve to look!

  147. Quicksilver

    Jeez … purposely leaving out a good part of OT VIII is plain suppressive.

    My very close friend arrived back from OTVIII. About 2-3 months later, he & his wife (OTVII) were killed in a car accident.

    To realize that he was sitting with a partially done level & that it could have been prevented leaves me speechless. To top it off, his wife had just been to Flag at the same time.

    He & his wife were the kindest of souls.

  148. Ne Obliviscaris

    A sense of vampiric horror washed over her as the last of her assets, like lifesblood, flowed out of the tip of her pen.

    “Are you sure?” She asked timidly. “Trust me, it’s for the best” the smiling registrar told her.

    “You know, ‘number of times over equals certainty and results’, and besides, it’ll help you run your case”

    Fighting back the nauseous vertigo that
    suddenly gripped her, a verse from Pink Floyd’s
    “Comfortably numb” started playing in her mind.

    /OK, OK, OK…

    /Just a little pinprick.

    /There’ll be no more aaaaaaaaah!

    /But you may feel a little sick.

    /Can you stand up? Stand up? Stand up?

    /I do believe it’s working — good.

    /That’ll keep you going through the show.

    /Come on it’s time to go…

    The voice of the registrar brought her back to to reality.

    Or was it?

    “Ok, now we just need to get you through the last step on your routing form…”

  149. Marty,

    Haydn is very correct I believe. I came across a statement from LRH in “History Of Man” that really, simply tells why the Cof$ and the public onlines (not counting the thetans looking for a way out of that mess), keep on keeping on with the “I will do whatever I’m told by Der Dwarf” scenrio:

    “I concluded, therefore, that the relatively sane are capable of accepting evidence and the insane are not.”

    This applies so much to the out tech being “accepted” by so many.

    Wow, do we need to clear this planet or what!?

    OTater (This tater wants to mash something!)

  150. Why even have anything to do with any of this? (Scientology) Sounds more trouble than its worth. Can someone explain this to me?

  151. Dear Lives Well,
    Sorry about your Mom,
    Now, I do NOT know anyone personally who was helped with the following advice I am going to give, (as I had never a cancer person in my vicinity except my sister in law who did not listen and did NOT make it) but it make sense and I use It to have energy, stamina – and yes I have not been having even a cold in decades – doing some of it.
    When I say some of it, I mean I am not religious about it and eat ALL the other “bad stuff” like salami & Kentucky Fried Chicken as well.
    So here we go for something to have your Mom try as she still seems to be fighting. Good for her 
    Eat Dr Schultz Supper food and all kinds of others of his tinctures – just read his brochures – but start with the 30 day cleansing prgm and supper food and ….. DR Schultz has lost his license as he is too holistic for the FDA and thus is only selling his products in his Marina Del Ray store or over the internet.
    I have read this book (need to look up the name of the Author) about eating raw food.
    Meat, eggs, raw butter, Milk, etc –
    I eat this stuff quite a bit and in fact I am eating a “Steak Tatar” which happens to be raw beef chopped up with all kinds of spices raw egg in it etc. as I I am reading your post and writing this response.
    (a very European dish often eaten as appetizer in fancy restaurants)
    My e –mail is hflasch@flasch.com for more info on the book or Dr Schultz
    When you read the book on raw food, you will see it makes a lot of sense from many angels – I love and believe in the theory just as I love and believe in SCN tech.
    Why, – I see the results on me form a pure energy level point as well as general well being , and yes I do believe the success stories in the book about cancer reversals.
    By the way – not EVER doing what I was asked for by the church IF it did not agree with me is another reason I am so healthy – I am sure of!
    What does your mom have to lose??
    All the very best to the both of you and anyone else involved.
    Love Helmut
    PS: here is a quote by Dr Schultz, which could just as well come from Ron or Einstein or anyone with common sense.
    “If you want to get healthy just stop doing what you are doing and start doing the right thing”
    (Not totally verbatim)
    Also remember that Ron says something like this:
    “Why audit someone for hours & hours if a change in diet can fix the thing?”

  152. Too funny! Thanks for that!

  153. No kidding! I’ve often pondered how to make a living as a Scientologist in the past.

    Well – thanks to DM this is no longer a problem.

    Fortunately for all these screwed up PCs, the best and brightest auditors are out (or on their way out).

    My favorite PCs were always my fellow staff members. My new favorite PCs will be those who have seen the truth and do something about it.

    And that is you and you and you dear readers of this blog.

    You and I are wearing those Boots in the Sky now.

    I expect that many of my favorite PCs of the past shall join us here before long thanks to all of you.



  154. LivesWell, I’m sorry to hear about your mom. She had better disconnect from DM and the DM-Bots if she wants to become more healthy. And I recommend reading all of this site and Scientology-cult among others. Then speaking out formally with a resignation letter. I’ve known so many Scientologists who, despite “PTS handlings” continued to get ill… actually, they all missed the correct PTS item who has been destroying everyone’s life with the help of his various SP groups.

  155. Wow. The C of M is coming apart much faster than I thought possible. It is like DM is attempting to drive away as many OTs as possible.

    What rings true is that he has gotten away with so much for so long, he thinks he can do anything he wants and people will go along with it. Well…not so much anymore, Dave. People are waking up.

  156. 11 millions comidiens out of a job and you try to be funny ?
    well done – the truth can be funny too !!
    Love helmut
    see you soon back on my l12 – or am I ordred to do the …………..? 🙂 🙂

  157. Well done Louise! If you want to write more of a formal resignation from the CoM I will be happy to post it on Scn-cult.


  158. Sorry to hear that your mum is so ill, LivesWell. I hope the rest of the time she has will be something you can always treasure.

  159. One other aspect that I observed for many years, regarding DM’s incessant, illegal and compulsive Executive C/Sing, is this: he says the problem is “you” aren’t following DM… you aren’t with the program or you aren’t backing up command intention = you didn’t get proper Scientology. As Haydn wrote in one of his great articles, it’s all calculated against breaking your will to resist, and getting you to buy in totally to “DM is Source.” If you don’t, it means there’s something wrong with you. You aren’t really Clear, or you didn’t really get standard tech hence you need to start over.

    Of course none of that detracts from the more fundamental situation him being a true Xenuesqe rock slammer, who’s priority No. 1 (besides destroying Scientology) is money.

  160. Keep fanning the flames Marty and all the rest of you.

    We may mock the “DMbots”, but I too was one in the not-too-distant-past.

    I neither feel pity nor nausea – I merely feel I must take whatever reasonable efforts I can take to a) help wake them up and b) get the show on the road.

    This is third dynamic processing/ Sec Checking we are doing here – life is improved on a gradient, plus it is FUN AS HELL (personally) as it has revitalized my purpose to help others!


    Giving it to the Man (wee wittle man) one piece of truth at a time.


  161. As far as I know it is done co audit style – at least with the clears. But never mind the money, (not withholding) it’s the UNNESERSARY action even more visible as it is blanket C/Si ing.
    Then again, the friend of my who told me that his wife was put on objective the next day after she attested clear did not question the whole thing even though he is OT V, was SO for years, a sup at ASHO (who trained me on my levels to Grad V) and new it was blanket C/Sing as he told me that this will soon come down the lines to all orgs.
    When I told him that I ma glad that his wife is happy, but to please never ask me to do this shit he walked away without saying by – this was the end of what I thought was I good friend ship, since after all he even helped me with my India mission in Bombay after having left the SO.
    So, why not milk the cow if she is waiting to be milked, is what Mr. Mismanage might be thinking.
    Love Helmut

  162. With OT III out of the bag, they could start’em on that.

  163. Tony DePhillips,

    Boy does that name ring a bell. 🙂

    Anyway, your point is great here.

    First, if you are an SP, why did they accept over a hundred grand for their MEST building from you? Seems like you could raise questions as long as you kept opening up your wallet, eh…

    Second, if the percentage of indies per city becomes similar to your example above, there’s a good chance that truth will burst its way deeply into the group of koolaids and fundamentally change everything for the better.

    I’d guess that the game at many Class V orgs right now is more about suppressing truth than it is about clearing anybody.

    And so, DM wins on two fronts. He has many PTS’s on the inside and many on the outside.

    While I’m far less directly-PTS now than I was in the church, I have a very strong feeling that the true PTS climax, if you will, is going to require a bit more foreplay. For me it is going to require DM going down very publicly, followed by a massive wake up call of truth so strong that nobody can deny what has really been going on at the top of the org board.

    Consider that my hidden standard!


  164. “If Davey could read and duplicate, he’d know this datum from Technical Downgrades: “To tell people they haven’t made it WHEN THEY HAVE is to get back hostility and a bad repute.””

    Darla, You are so right!

    LRH in “History of Man” said it succinctly:

    “I concluded, therefore, that the relatively sane are capable of accepting evidence and the insane are not.”


    P.S. I don’t think that Der Davey could mine his own ass with both of his munchkin paws!

  165. crashingupwards

    “The Prince” and Machiavelli himself, may be very much overrated.
    Machiavelli’s side LOST. He was deposed. Accused of conspiracy and treason.
    His lasting legacy is tied to deceitful tactics. A real stand up guy.
    Follow his advice at your peril.

  166. Louise, Well Done!! Welcome to this safe and very sane space*!

    (*Provided by Marty and Friends. Thank you all very very much for creating this theta space for us to breathe freely and enjoy each others thoughts and good wishes – OTater 🙂

  167. now that make sense why he does all this shit – I remember when I was working in the hotel business around Europe – I especially remember a story from Italy – I was rather good at what I was doing and was measuring how good I was based on how much shit OUTSIDE my actual job, but still affecting the hotel management,I could get away with.
    My “self confidence and self worth” rose with how much I could get away with.
    It was very screwed up looking back and DID get audited out, thanks god, otherwise I might be Mr. Mismanages right hand by now!
    Love Helmut

  168. Mockingbird6

    Man, I love that phrase “the circular bridge”.

  169. Freedom Fighter

    And sadly, some of them will have to receive the proverbial 2×4 up against their head (aka hitting bottom) before they’ll start to question what’s going on. It’s a shame, too, because just a little sprinkling of personal integrity ala LRH style would go a long way in avoiding that pitfall.

  170. On the cover of the new source mag, the flag it committee us wearing what could be mistaken for FSO uniforms, but with shirts untucked. Formica engraved nametags on their uniform shirts. So, if your on OT 7 you have to be on the OT Committee. If you’re on the OT Committee you are on the FSO org board with a uniform shirt and name tag to prove it. Good luck saying “No”. Next they’ll have the “public RPF”.

  171. I started on this mess. I’m not OT8, but this “purif not flat” and “objectives not flat” thing started a couple years ago. CS’s were ordered to Flag and when they came back the deal was everyone needed to re-do purif and objectives.

    I bought it because I felt like something was wrong. In hindsight it was other stuff. I did my purif and it was already flat. The objectives looked like a nightmare and it felt wrong. I saw other people trying to do the “new improved” co-audit and fail. I dont think my org has gotten ANYONE through it on the co audit since the correction.

    And who has $ for hundreds of hours objectives in the HGC? New people?

    There were many people CS’ed to re-do objectives at my org and most all balked I assume because they got word of the extra time ( and expense if in the HGC) and arbitrary “EP”.
    Anyone who tried failed.

    Now the purif and co-audit sits empty.

    It’s welded shut the bottom of the bridge.

    Then they started heavily promoting the lower bridge at Flag.

    But the products dont look right. “I feel pretty good. I finished Grade 0-3 in five hours….yay”
    Their wins are all about how they didnt think they could get through so many grades over the weekend or something. Weird.

  172. Here here! Right on!

  173. Wall? What wall? I can see through walls. You want me to touch what wall?

  174. Veritas, WOW!! Absolutely enlightening 🙂


  175. Tony,

    Wow! This is a great win.
    You handle the guy really well and with truth. People can see the difference between truth and lie.

    DM is the only stupid one, who thinks he is smart.

  176. “Recently lost tech on Objective has been found.”

    “The C/S’s of CL V Orgs are being/have been sent to Flag to get hatted on this new tech handling.” ( I assume AO’s are doing the same)

    “Folders are being reviewed to be programmed for ojectives as neccessary.”

    “It has to do with people who hadn’t run hundreds of hours of each objectives and are not running well in life are to be, gotten in, programmed and gotten through them.”

    As stated by an OT committe member of the local Org.

    Just another “Why” forced onto those already crippled beings.

    P.S. The local Org is hardly pushing this program. The local sense is this program is not quit right.

  177. Marty,

    It makes me sick to see DM can get away with murdering these good people.

    I came to Scientology because I knew with this valuable tech I can help those good people of Earth. I hate to see them hurt by such an ass (DM). I used to look up to those OTs, but as I saw each and everyone over the years are becoming MEST rather than having Free Theta, it made me sad.

  178. The auditors, and c/s’ at our local org have all been given a cram on the ‘references’ behind justifying having parishoners re-do objectives. This is used to convince the parishoners to accept this blanket c/sing. References include the basic books, and apparently lectures from the ACCs (I don’t have the specifics). A lecturer at a seminar on suppression recently even gave an example of an OTVIII that was put back onto the objectives. Parishoners are being told that they won’t make it to OT without the required number of hours on Objectives.

    I guess nobody’s really made it then, huh?

  179. MockingJay

    I look at all this talk about why the OT VIIIs allow this and that. Please realize most of them are not trained.

    The question you should be asking is where are the VIIIs? I mean the Class VIIIs? Notice how few of them are auditing or in this scene? Why? Because they won’t do it. LRH taught them too well.

  180. Nightmares Getting Less


    I agree. For further discussion.

  181. Fellow Traveller

    Louise —

    Welcome to the world where is it hot, fast, sometimes painful, but always the full gamut of emotional response. A few of us even enjoy the all out howling mad charge into the ramparts, one more time.

    Very nice. Very nice of you indeed. Thank you.

    Bruce Pratt

  182. Fellow Traveller

    Another Layer —

    “I am neither Clear nor OT.” I take it you speak in Certs not levels of observation and competence.

    Bruce Pratt

  183. Fellow Traveller

    Alex may not have invented gravity, but he sure knows how to play a game. Awesome, man.

    This is one of the few Pat Metheny songs I know. It’s title is appropriate. For Alex and all your other identities. We be on board.

  184. Marta,
    And yet, the fabric holds your attention. How come?

  185. Well, isnt’ that a raw lemon-juiced flavored road apple. Mmmmm, that leaves a very bad taste in my shoe.

  186. Theo Sismanides

    Hi Louise,

    and welcome! Yes, you are among friends.

    I am a Div 6 person and a Recruiter type of person. I get very happy when “new” people come in.

    As an aside I would like to mention that like Louise Cronin many more should come out right now, especially OT VIIIs.

    This is your chance to show loyalty to LRH and support Standard Tech.

    The Church is our Div 6 and we are a bunch of people who care about Scientology.

    This is your chance to DO something about IT.

    The C/S Series does not apply (with Executive C/Sing done constantly by DM), the Translations Series doesn’t apply (that’s when I withdrew my allegiance to so called Mgmt), what else are you waiting for?

    An OT is not one climbing up the Bridge. An OT is Cause and you guys now need to Cause over this situation.

    Life is weird. It puts Ethics just by itself lately. Many “leaders” in the world and in other organizations are not up to it. It shows they are puppets. They cannot handle things, all they do is forward some agenda that has not been discussed here at all.

    And this is our biggest issue. What is going on in the World. If we cannot be cause over this Scientology has failed as it is for the masses and creating a better planet.

    OT VIIIs, this is your chance to take responsibility for the planet, not for your Bridge.

    This here is a group like a Sea Org operating to put Ethics in, first in the church and DM.

    However, I can see that all those stellar people in it could do a much better job of investigations, evaluations, putting order in many others spheres of responsibility.

    We are unbiased now. We have no Masters. We can be three feet back of the Planet’s head.

    More and more should join this movement, like Louise did.

    We have one responsibility and it’s called Planet Earth, not just Scientology. Scientology is a tool and it’s not the end by itself. Those who just sit inside watching Scientology going by the boards just cannot make the grade and confront the planet.

    We on the outside, have made the grade, we are Free, we have no Masters, we just need to get involved with what we have and create a better Planet Earth. This is the ultimate Game and the way out! It’s called Responsibility! We now can do it, with all the wonderful people gathered here and those to come.

    OT VIIIs we are waiting for you to come out.

  187. Jan,
    I will say, that despite the ‘assignment’ to the Running Pgm, I loved it. It was as if I’d rebuilt the entire body, from scratch. With this new, hyper drive machine, I could hear ants walking, leaves talking and was aware of each particle of the atmosphere.

    It was the second time, when the first didn’t make me kowtow, well, then…I saw an agenda on DM’s part completely different than the gains of LRH’s intent.

    It seems, it’s all in the intention.

  188. Louise,
    We’ve never met, but I know Rachel. Thinking of her right now, as I’m reminded here, she is one of those people that has made this life better than any other.

  189. planetaryclearing

    Marty, have you got a copy of the issue regarding OTVIIIs have to do Objectives? I would like the hardcopy so it is not a I said he said ie; when I tell a Scientologist about this I juts hand them the issue.

  190. Theo Sismanides

    Veritas, you give me strength to continue. No more Popes, no more churches for vias.

    Do you OT VIIIs can dig this? Or are you going to make Scientology another Christianity?

    Your VERY names are going to be written down in history. YOU didn’t stand up when you were ordered to re-do Objectives destroying the whole Bridge laid out.

    It is a big outpoint that as OTs you support DM in his destructive game. Anyone can see this, how come you guys don’t? So you are there for other reasons like that group that comes together out of fear.

    What are you afraid of? We too saw our necks being cut and our heads rolling on the floor and we picked them up and put them back and to our surprise and to YOUR surprise our HEADS are back and we are intact better than ever.

    Just don’t make Scientology another Christianity and DM another corrupt Pope. This is NOW your responsibility, too. It’s not just ours, you were in this all the way.

    Your time has come. If you can’t feel the pressure TODAY you are going to feel it TOMORROW and tomorrow it’s going to be much more difficult.

  191. Why so much energy on people who are still in CoS? Why are they Kool-Aid drinkers? Where they are now you once were. DM can point to your callous comments and show them to people who are still in to prove that the Indies are hostile and promote a dangerous environment. Have compassion for people who are still in. They fear losing their eternity. Some are ashamed to admit that they may have wasted decades of their lives and huge sums of money in CoS. Why don’t the Indies discuss how you used the Tech to heal and recover from C of M? Explain how the Tech works and why.

    Based on my private talks, the Doubt Formulas produced by the OT VIII’s are still the most potent tool, followed by the Idle Orgs.

    CoS is cratering hard. What is going on inside is a propaganda battle for control of people’s minds and identities. This battle is concealed as Ethics, FPRD, etc.

    OT’s especially need to keep hammering home why leaving CoS now is the only ethical, self-determined action.

    DM has always wanted to destroy OT’s. DM has always wanted to loop the Bridge back down to the Basics and the lower grades. Critics saw it from the outside years ago. We use to wonder what kept people in CoS. IMO, it is misplaced loyalty to LRH and to the group. Loyalty is very powerful.

    The EP of Miscavigology is that everyone is his slave.


  192. Theo Sismanides

    Another Layer,

    You don’t need “leadership” from such OTs. YOU are more OT than them at this point of Time. An OT is not one with certs, and OT sees and acts for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

    If their Understanding(s) are messed up to continue to flow power and energy to the C of M then they are not up to it.

    But definitely their Perception (which is interestingly Department 3 on the Org Board and has to do with Ethics0 is distorted.

    How come your’s isn’t distorted and theirs is? This is a huge outpoint for OTs. It’s very fishy.

  193. Theo Sismanides

    Tony, that’s great!

  194. >But I dont think Marty is gloating, I think he is still trying to ring that wake-up bell.

    I agree with both points. I don’t see how the OT8s don’t see what a scam this is, but then again, if they made it to OT8, they obviously have no problem responding to Co$ commands, opening their wallet and going to the flag, ship, or local org when ordered.

    Where my viewpoint differs – and I only point this out lest Marty suspect someone else is using the “Caliwog” name 🙂 – is that Marty blames this sheep-like conditioning on DM, and I blame it on LRH. It’s the ability of intelligent people (and the OT8s I know certainly aren’t dumb – yes, guys, I know some OT8s!) to accept anything, no matter how ridiculous, that worries me the most.


  195. J. Swift,

    “…DM can point to your callous comments and show them to people who are still in to prove that the Indies are hostile and promote a dangerous environment.”

    DM is doing everything he possibly can to prevent ANYONE from seeing our “callous” comments. It’s the LAST thing he’ll do.

    “Callous” means “un-feeling”.

    I’d have to disagree. Indies are very feeling. And very free to openly discuss the horrors of the church at all available tone levels without censure (unless someone is being utterly innappropriate with the intention of just creating upset).

    They are koolaid drinkers because by now, so much truth is getting into the Citadels yet people still refuse to even LOOK.


    Idle Org

  196. Floating Needle

    Concerning “What problem is DM trying to solve?”, to me there seem to be several layers of answers.
    “To make money” or that “no body gets up the bridge” are solutions in themselves for some prior problem.
    Therefore I would keep the question alive: “What problem is DM trying to solve?”

  197. Miscavige will take your kidney instead.

  198. ISomebody on this blog said he stopped getting auditing in 1990

  199. *have you ever met a real SP? A real monster?”

    Paraphrasing the founder

  200. J. Swift,

    Another point is that, in my city and from numerous reports on these blogs around the world, churchies are all too willing to disconnect, even from family members, before they are willing to search the net.

    Long-time opinion leaders who have donated everything to the church are suddenly “bad” because they asked questions or brought LRH to the table. And when the church execs go around black PR’ing us “bad guys”, apparently their juniors and their public buy it by excommunicating us.

    One really learns who their friends are in Mest-ology.

    “Koolaid” is an apt term.

    So is “Robot”. “DM-Bot”. “Fear-Bot.”

    etc, etc, etc……


  201. Overdriver

    Dear Marthy, it is fine that you censor my comments but please, let me know what is wrong with asking why people who did the PTS/SP course does not recognise the SP?
    That would be the aim to do a PTS/SP course, doesn’t?
    If you do not let my comment through, please send me a short answer to this mail address: scn84resistance@gmail.com
    Many thanks and keep up the good work!

  202. Tony,

    Your comment about being a volunteer Chaplain at your Org really resonates with me. I played the same role at my Org for a time. I did the best I could to care for and protect people, and I’m confident you did the same. I paid a price, as I’m sure you did.

    One of the best things I ever did as a Chaplain and as a Scientologist was to prevent someone from joining the Church of Scientology. Before anyone gets upset with me, please allow me to explain. You know those elder abuse cycles that people have posted about? The ones where regges coerce lonely, elderly people to turn over their life savings, mortgage their homes, etc. so someone can make their stat and/or get their commission? Well, I prevented that from happening to a very, very lonely elderly woman who had recently lost her husband. I was deliberately counter “command intention.” And the only way to do it was to keep her out of the COS. I couldn’t be her “reg bodyguard” 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I told myself the old saying that one had to be a Scientologist before one could become a Scientologist. I had the cognition that there were some particularly vulnerable people, including lonely and elderly recent widows, who could not confront and deal with the COS as it was currently operating. She would have been regged to death and eaten alive. I was not going to let that happen.

    One of the sad things is that high level staff did not understand that what I did was in the long term best interest of Scientology as a whole. That, even leaving aside ethics, morality and the dynamics, the bad PR and negative externalities associated with regging this woman for her last penny would have caused Scientology far more harm than the value of the money gained.

    It is a strange and quite frankly painful thing to be a member of a Church (and acting as a volunteer Chaplain) and come to the conclusion that the best, most moral and ethical thing you can do is to prevent someone from joining your Church. That is when I knew I was done.

    — Kha Khan

  203. Shane and Chrissie

    Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are VERY proud of you!!!!!!!!! Can’t wait for your full story – tea and biscuits =) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    The followers of the UK Leader (Sam) LOL!! That is per OSA….. duh!! We do have our own minds and create our own lives but I guess that is not real to someone who is a robotic follower!!

  204. Sorry if I enter my output here, but you mention a dibelief in LRH tech and I couldn’t help it, but say my view about it. I’ve no idea as to what tech you were actually subjected to, I higly doubt you were ever audited for your personal spiritual enanchement. That said, you can keep your ideas, but I’d object to your bad comments over something you’ve hardly had a glimse of. I do speak from experience and long practice at all levels.

  205. martyrathbun09

    Hey Louise, WELCOME!

  206. martyrathbun09

    I don’t know what you are talking about.

  207. Awesome, Tony.

  208. Swift, I agree. I received auditing in Copenhagen in 2004 and my auditor must be one of those who decided to stick with LRH no matter what orders came from Miscavige. I respect that and I also respect him still being in.
    There are more of his kind still in there and I consider them to be my friends.

  209. CoS is cratering hard. What is going on inside is a propaganda battle for control of people’s minds and identities. This battle is concealed as Ethics, FPRD, etc.

    Oh, that is just so dead-on accurate.

    This statement needs to be framed.

    DM has always wanted to loop the Bridge back down to the Basics and the lower grades.

    Probably just running his own unflat case (No Case-Gain) off on everybody else.

    you censor my comments

    Virtually all moderated sites do that, many Indie Sites, and most definitely all CO$ ones.

    Some Ops have agendas, not really interested in discussions, they just want to line up all their ducks along agreement row, Sock-puppeteering galore … ie. validate their opening post.

    Others … more of the rubber plant IQ disposition:

    Objective rebuttal = CO$ Troll … as in A = A. (Bank)

    Just don’t support such sites by frequenting them.

    Marty’s site is pretty good in comparison, so if you complain here, don’t bother going anywhere else.

  210. I am not OT8. For whatever reason I did have abilities above my level and a few times demonstrated them to I thought friends. Like controlling 100 water birds on the lake and make them go out of that lake and go back and out again and stuff like that.
    The first time I had been told I did not see reality and orderd on objectives (to again see reality) I took it without comment and thought, maybe they are right. The second time I did protest and refused to do it. The third time I fell into a very deep apathy. Cause I did not the idicated thing to attack.
    I wonder what will happen when a real OT has enough of that and decides to attack.

  211. Louise! I knew you way back when you were a young girl, good friend of my daughter. Remember you and she got into trouble for buying a packet of chips at a village pub? She has been looking for you forever. So glad you are out. Love and hugs

  212. Dear Marty, I am upset by this information, so I want to ask you the following: are you totally certain about the reliability of your source, to a point that you can undoubtely exclude that this info is a ‘rumor’ put there as a sort of ‘DM counter-intelligence’ to drive out other CofM OT defectors? thank you

  213. Martin Padfield

    LOUISE!!!!!! Wow!! Holy Cow!!! Hi. Just GREAT to see you here! Setting the right example. Two fingered salutes can be VERY elegant when originating from a theta source and in the appropriate direction!

    Really happy you’re here!! Excited. Almost (not quite) speechless. VVVVVVV well done! Let me know if you need anything; in any case you know there are many friends round these parts now…

    Please please do the 5 page write-up, or 10 page or whatever and post on Steve’s site. I for one would LOVE to read it. Martin.

    PS. When I was sup’ing Rachel in 82 and she was CO CMO UK, it was striking how in-valence, bright and “normal” she was; we bumped into each other at Int and she seemed to have lost a lot of that spark. How’s she doing? Has she succumbed to reverse Dianetics? Anything we can do to help her?

  214. Theo Sismanides


    This IS Scientology. It’s a given! theta (free) space and then command of space (OT)!

    We don’t have to thank anybody. This is the irreducible minimum and a tribute to LRH. For his sake!

  215. Joe Pendleton

    One of the flaws in the Scientology admin system is that people who are actually trained and accomplished in the technology of Scientology (audtors, CS’s) have to be junior to and take orders from those higher on the Org Bd who have no real knowledge/certainty on the subject, and face a whole lot of force if they attempt to keep their integrity (see stories of Greg and Debra Hughes and V. McClaughry) and usually have to leave the group if they don’t want to be either imprisoned (Sea Org) or persecuted.

  216. “Because OT VIII is not the full OT VIII, these VIII’s are having a little trouble. Oh yes, Davey, I was told that you chopped OT VIII in half and only delivered the first half. The 2nd half is slated to be OT IX. A little bird told me before you declared him.”

    This is a new datum for me. It explains a lot.

    It’s worthy of a full blog post.

  217. Martin Padfield

    Very sound advice I think Steve

  218. Just saw the clarification Tom. Thank You.

    I question the source of that datum. Is there someone who was on compilation lines or close to LRH that can confirm there was an LRH instruction ignored in compiling OT 8?

  219. “In a session or handling the living lightning we handle, people can be hit by a forceful charge of which they are only minutely aware but which swamps them. Their affinity, reality and communication (life force) is retarded or cut by this hidden charge and they react with what we call an ARC break or have an ARC broken aspect.
    If they know what the charge is, they do not have an ARC break or they cease to be ARC broken.”
    HCOB 9 August AD 13, “How to do an ARC Break Assessment”

  220. Martin Padfield

    I think it’s a new liver he needs after years of drinking half a bottle of Scotch a day.

  221. Pirate's wife

    Hi, Overdriver,

    I can answer some of your question “why people who did the PTS/SP course does not recognise the SP?”

    In the PTS/SP course material, one policy says when you are doing search & the discovery to spot an SP, if the person starts naming personnel from the church then it doesn’t count the list at all. When I read that data and question it to course supervisor the answer I got is, this is standard LRH. I do not agree at this point at all since I have seen many suppressive act committed by the church staff member and because of this policy so they would not get handled.

    The same question you can ask about why other SO member wouldn’t leave or OTs can’t they see…… the answer is quite plain. They are still PTS to the church.

    Marty, please correct my grammar error if there’s any. Thanks.

  222. I agree with Mike. From a tech standpoint, the idea of Objectives being run for hundreds of hours gives Miscavige an even wider Cheshire cat grin, knowing he’ll be sending OTs down his rabbit hole into a total overrun that is reverse Scientology at DM’s best.
    Correctly done Objectives bring a person more into present time, plus more able to follow auditing commands and make gains on subjective processes.
    Plowing somebody in on Objective processes like “Give me that hand” or “Walk over to that wall. Touch that wall. Turn around.” etc. is a Miscavige plot to make these DM Bots even more DOCILE and more robot. In the DM paradigm, “Give me that hand” as a command is soon replaced with “Give me that credit card.” “Walk over to that wall. Touch that wall.” is soon replaced with “Come to Flag. Buy this L. See the IAS tour.”

  223. Throughout the day, I’ve thought about this issue. So many ideas kept flooding my think tank that I had to open valves to supplemental tanks to hold the overflow.

    Complexity, complexity, complexity. Whenever a thetan can’t confront, things get complex. Then he’s got a confusion so he grabs ahold of a simplicity, a fixed idea, to solve the complexity. But the fixed idea is a non-confront, so more complexity accumulates around this “simplicity” and he gets confused, so he formulates another simplicity (fixed idea) to handle the confusion.

    Ron talked about this in his study of Prior Confusions. It also serves as the pattern for forming GPMs.

    Jim asks what problem is DM trying to solve? And DM is trying to solve a problem. And this might or might not be a valid listing question with a valid single item. Or the single items might just be the ends of strings which need to be followed back.

    Some of the answers (items) in reply have been money, evil, destruction, misunderstanding. The OT8 has reached the top of the bridge, so how do you pull more money out of him or her? Valid answer. Or DM is just trying to solve his own case, so he’s assigning that case to others. Another valid answer. He’s certainly full of overts and withholds, which would partially explain the fixation on sec checks. He also misunderstands the tech, so he can’t apply it even if he wanted to. And he’s certainly destroying the CofS, whether that is his intent or not.

    But underlying all of that is the need for power. DM needs power. Money is merely a representation of power. Destroying others is merely an exercise of power. This guy gets pleasure out of using power in ways that would disgust a rational person. It’s the same urge that makes some rapist keep someone locked in the basement for years.

    If you ever wonder why he’s gotten rid of all of the execs, it’s because he doesn’t want to share that power. It’s his, and his alone. If you wonder why he’s not finishing the Super Power, the answer is the same. Do you really think this guy wants anyone else to have super power?

    First of all, he knows he isn’t personally powerful. But, he’s bought into his own lie. He depends on others to exercise power for him. If he had no back up, he would collapse. He’s a coward. He latched onto LRH’s power line, then used all of the support built up with the intention of furthering LRH’s power to transform that power into “COB’s” power.

    And because he doesn’t want anyone else to have power, he’s trying to convince others that it wasn’t LRH’s power lines, but his own. He’s trying to pretend that he is the source of that power.

    But, back to the objectives. Why objectives? Jim is right; he’s trying to solve something here. Power is control. Objectives are about control. For an SP, running control on another doesn’t translate to giving them control, which is the intent of objectives. If DM runs objectives on OT8’s, he’s exercising control. He gets his money. He keeps the subjects of his realm stuck in the realm. He maintains his power. He thinks.

    He’s got a simplicity to solve his complexity. A complexity made worse by Marty, Mike and the rest of us.

    If you think DM is just about money and just about destruction you might want to reread Dianetics. DMSMH. DM is trying to survive. He has to dominate to survive. He has to destroy competitors to survive. He has to have invincible power to survive. He’s not about to give up that power and admiration. He’s got the means to survive. To give it up would be to succumb.

    He’s got this thing about power so skewed because deep down he feels weak. If only he had enough power he could survive.

    Because he doesn’t really grasp that power is based in understanding, based in ARC and KRC, he doesn’t fully grasp the importance of estimation of effort in using that power. Nor does he grasp the necessity to share power.

    Part of ARC is communication. For communication to work, you really need terminals of comparable magnitude. Too much power at either terminal causes an eventual collapse of the weaker terminal.

    Power requires terminals. Power requires the flow of energy. And energy only flows when there are terminals of comparable magnitude.

    DM’s predilection for collapsing terminals simply causes a reduction in his power base, but he doesn’t grasp this. The independent movement is becoming successful because we are establishing a large network of terminals via which energy and power can flow. When you read these blogs, you can feel that energy flowing. It’s power.

    The actual way to expand your power is to give it away. A thetan has no scarcity of power. A thetan does not become weaker by giving away power and allowing other terminals to become established.

    Another point is this mania about perfectionism. A person can use the demand for perfection as a means to destroy others. He realizes that no one can reach that standard, which makes them perpetually wrong and weak. He’s got proof. They’re not perfect.

    And that article on DM flexing his biceps. He’s demonstrating his power in a weirdly graphic way. And those tiny biceps just indicate his distorted perceptions. He thinks he’s got Arnold’s arms.

    A note on objectives. Just as TRs work best on lower levels and higher levels of case, objectives probably do also. All the material on overrun really apply to case. At some point a person would theoretically not have a case to overrun. You aren’t just “keying out” any more.

    Objectives, like TRs can be an exercise in ability, just like running through the countryside. A gymnast or dancer does not “overrun” while practicing certain moves over and over and over and over and over. They just gain better control and strength and ability.

    We all benefit by practice. How does a thetan control a body? At lower levels, running objectives puts a person in present time and runs out circuits. At higher levels, objectives provide a means of examining how a thetan interacts with and controls a body. You examine flows and intention and postulates and present time and time streams and solidity and space. How does a thetan move a body through space and time?

    So, I would caution against considering objectives as merely a lower case action. DM may be assigning objectives as a method of reverse Scientology, but if objectives are run correctly by an OT auditor who is aware of the power of these processes, you might find even more individuals coming into PT, recognizing conditions, and leaving the church. It could backfire on him.

    I could yap on and on, but I’ll step aside and let others contribute to this motion.


  224. I don’t know if this is sudden or not but I
    really don’t understand why so many people
    think they have to move up the grade chart
    to be OT. I know from working on LRH’s
    lines that he expected you to be OT. He never
    asked where you are on the grade chart? He
    just didn’t expect you to bring the Bank to work today. Hell, if I can do it, so can you!

  225. Amy — I must agree with you.

    I think many of the comments on this posting are spot on.

    For those of you who do not know — DM does not attend study in any courseroom — not in RTC or anywhere else. He does not consider that the basic training policies apply to him.

    There is no metered word clearing technology that he applies, as no one would be allowed to put him on the meter. He orders that Int base staff word clear m9, m3, m4, etc. tombs of policies and references, but does not do any of that himself.

    DM has not had auditing in literally DECADES. He has no auditor and does not avail himself of one (though in his position he could pick the best of the best and have auditing daily if he desired so).

    No, since I met him in the very early 90’s he has not been on the cans, and I am sure it was even earlier than that since he was.

    There are a number of Ethics policies that talk about the person who you cannot get on the cans. There is a reason why — and it is spelled CRIMES.

    Here we have a person who is dictating and C/Sing for the entirety of the Scientology public — determining what should and should not be done on the Grade Chart — who does not avail himself of the technology or apply it personally.

    That to me says it all.

    It is no coincidence that staff cannot get up The Bridge, and no coincidence that public keep being taken off (or keep being put back to the bottom to start again). It is also NO coincidence that the highest trained auditors and C/Ses have all methodically been busted, removed, declared, had their certs cancelled, etc. etc. Then there is no one left to challenge his ultimate rule over the technical scene.

    We have a No Case Gain sitting at the top of the pile.

  226. I am thrilled by that new nail in the coffin for DM and hope it serves as well as at least 100.
    I am curious to see how many OT8s aren’t taking that one now any longer.
    Oh, how hard it is yet to get those magic 10.000 able to make the make break point for Planet Earth….!

    Those magic 10.000 will be reached in comparatively NO time outside the “church”, I am very sure. Go, indies, go…

  227. …if not yet accomplished 🙂

  228. Thank you, I will pass this data along to her.

  229. Yes, we are aware it’s a PTS sit. and the handling to be done
    Thank you

  230. Thanks Heather, yep, accent on ability with lots spiritual of admiration, I do treasure her and know she is and will be ok in the future.

  231. From my viewpoint it is time for all lurkers on this blog to step into the “light of freedom”

    I think we need a call to action to step forward.

    DM is winning this battle and if we don’t stop this insanity of his, way to many PTS OT’s will go splat on the wall.

    IMHO I think time is short. I also believe DM has done us a favor with this blatant OT 8 showdown.

    For sure COS is dead and day by day it is getting deader…more solid….more mesty…more supressive.

    The growing Independent field is going to need auditors and CS’s. If too many stay behind the wall of secrecy then how in the hell can we wake up the living dead inside the walls of DM’s hell hole.

    It is time for the lurkers on this blog to step into some big boots and scream to the heavens


  232. crashingupwards

    Interesting. I suppose it wasnt long after that Jeff Walker hit the road. Jeff was pretty much all business. Nothing warm and fuzzy about him but he knew the tech and knew how it was supposed to be applied. I hope he is alive and well down under.
    So Tom, what your saying is all the OT8’s were basically ripped off for financial purposes from what the original OT8 contained. This was arbitrarily done by DM in collusion with Ray Mithoff. It had nothing to do with the delivery of the level technically.
    Thats a pretty serious charge. If I was OT8 I would be demanding OT9 for free.

  233. You can’t track an IP address down to an address people!!!

    an IP address will only get you a regional area like Glendale or sometimes even as big as Los Angeles depending upon the system.

    Do you think that they are going to go door to door in Glendale looking for those people who read marty’s blog? give me a break!!!!

    and they can only track in general where the links are coming from, tracking stats on the web is not as cut and dry as people think.

  234. J. Swift and Idle Org: J. Swifts comments I feel are heartfelt as are Idle Orgs —

    It brought up this aspiration I really love from Shantideva -a 8th century Indian Buddhist monk:

    “May I be a protector for the unprotected;
    A guide for travelers on the way;
    A boat, a raft, or a bridge
    For those who long to cross to the other shore.

    May I be an isle for those who seek an island;
    A lamp for those who wish for light;
    A shelter for those in need of rest;
    A servant for those in need of service.


  235. crashingupwards

    J.Swift. I think I get where your comming from. Its never good to be too judgemental, and the saying “kool-aid drinker” does sound demeaning. I think it should be used less frequently and more for those who want to support the oppression, than for those who just are afraid to look. The majority are motivated or more or less by fear, loyalty, ignorance of the alternatives.
    There is the LRH HCOB/PL “You can be Right”. LRH ties being right into survival very much. And after devoting years and resources to something, its more difficult to see it in a different light.
    But as evidenced by those here, not impossible.
    I would suggest this HCOB be the theme for leading people to freedom. It works in conjunction with all other policies and points,write-ups ,etc that are referenced by others here. Tie it all into how being an independent makes one right.

  236. Thank you for telling us that.
    As was mentioned, a full Time, Place, Form and Event would be a good first thing to do to help as-is THAT Third dynamic engram. Perhaps as an article on Leaving Scientology….

    Honesty is the road to sanity. Let’s all start there.


  237. I would gladly contribute more to this blog, if Marty would desist from his covert public statements that I am a babbling idiot and that Class VIII and XIIs are nothing but a cult of High Priest-Hood imbecile zombies dramatizing whole track evil purposes. Such statements are merely an indicator of Marty’s own unconfronted O/Ws on auditors he has boasted to me having both broken and handled,when in fact all he did on them was squirell sec-checking and Ethics handling “RTC-style”.

    For the past 6 months I have been doing nothing but repairing severely ARCXen people, mainly from Flag. This includes many OT VIIs and VIIIs that have been driven into the ground by the kind of non-sense PROGRAMMING described here: Denigration of case of state, people having to automatically redo grades three times “because nobody prior to Golden Age of Tech Knew how to audit”, pc protesting being run on Dianetics and theirs auditors being coaxed to “TR4” the R3RA commands while the pc tries to interrupt the torture by repeating his legitemely acquired Clear Cog. Previously CADILLAC PCs, now OT VII or VIII have now for the first time in their life caved in and no longer functioning in life, after having Miscavige’s reverse bridge pushed off on them. Auditors deliberately ignoring ARCXs and auditing over them. Sending pcs to Ethics because they complain of being pushed into a sad effect (see The tech materials on the consequences of auditing people over unhandled ARCXs). Being ordered to endless sec-check for daring to suggest that the non-sense above is not standard-tech. The list goes on and on and on. Not a single day now passes by without some tortured individual contacting me and telling me their horrid tale of woe or begging me for some form of relief.
    The stories posted on this board barely scratch the surface.

    FLAG NO LONGER KNOWS HOW TO DELIVER THE Ls (and neither do the untrained fools who have not read half the materials and use the rabbitt buttonsto allegedly repair them outside the Church). I know the materials inside out and read a lot of additional colateral L data that nobody else at Flag since the late 1970s has ever bothered to study (yet exist in the original LRH research and personally C/Ses cases from 1970-1972, which were all available to me merely for the asking since Ls folders never leave Flag). I perfected my L training after leaving Flag by contacting some of the original Class XIIs, some of whom I am auditing. Possibly why I know the Ls materials so well is that I had to memorize them because translations were either non-existent or absurdly bad, and I have audited at Flag in 8 language: The only real way to sight-translate a list or process while delivering it with perfect TR1 is to have it memorized.

    I am now fixing up the 25th time in 3 years a botched up L10 done at Flag, Class XII auditors at Flag have now been “retrained” to no longer audit L10 the way LRH taught it, which is called F/N style, because the redefinition of an F/N by Miscavige subverts how L10 should be run. Auditors have been falsely taught to handle L10 reads like in “normal auditing” and to ignore the original HCOBs and tapes on how reads are handled on that level.
    My pcs are obtaining incredible gains from such repair. They include, beside wonderful sensations of well-being, Exterior (occasionally with full perception) and true OT states. In some case the gains include abilities that the nay-sayers on some other boards assert are impossible.

    We are today the 165th day of 2010 and I find myself auditing for the 154th day this year. Most of the remaining 11 days were spent travelling (including some 10+ hours flights). I am now in June 2010, already booking people for the spring and summer of 2011 because my calendar is hopelessly full until then.

    Four years ago, I decided to retire early from my day job at a large corporation along with its six figure salary. My original intention was to merely audit what I thought would those few who would originate to me being in need of help.

    Having reached complete financial independence and being able to live comfortably for the rest of my life on my investments alone, I thought I could at long last devote myself to my hobbies, which include the restauration of an antique Rolls-Royce in my garage.
    But I am someone who has always felt it was wrong to turn a deaf ear to pleas for help.
    Since then, the chorus of voice begging me for help by email, skype, phone, letters or even in person has gradually grown from a trickle to a deafening roar, leading me to now travel the world as the unofficial World ARCX auditor. So far the only continent that hasnt sent pleas for help is Antartica…
    LRH once said: “By my own creed a Being is only as valuable as he can help others”.
    This would tend to make me very valuable. At the opposite end of the scale one would find David Miscavige who is a valuable as gangrene on an otherwise healthy limb

    It does not require a Ph.D. nor an IQ of 200 to know what to do with gangrene. ..

    Pierre Ethier
    Class XII trained and Interned by the original 1971 Class XIIs NOT BY RTC.
    Flag Auditor of the year, every single year from 1982 until 1992

  238. I agree with Cali, no “bad comments” there, and I think I will keep my reactive mind, its kept me out of trouble so far, thank you very much.

  239. Sharing some Theta with my friends: Jim, Sam
    and Chrissie, you’ll love this. Looking out my window at my squirrel feeder on my big tree
    I discovered my little buddy ‘Rocky’ is Mrs.
    Rocky. There are now three tiny pine squirrels
    running all over the tree. They are so damn cute. Of course I had to put a handful of raw
    peanuts in the feeder for them. I spoil my
    little critters. This really made my day, sure hope it does yours too! Love

  240. martyrathbun09

    Michael, you gave a pretty accurate assessment there in my opinion. The same can be said about the “basics”; despite his suppressive checksheets I’ve seen a lot of people go through the process I did, “hey, wait the Scientology I’m reading from LRH bears no resemblence to what the church is doing”

  241. Dear Virgil/Tom,

    Do you know what happened to Jeff Walker? Is he still in the SO or Scientology? And do you know what happened to Sue Walker?

    Jeff did a Class XII Mission to AOLA in 1973 while I was on my Solo Course. I was doing an Instant Read Drill with my twin; he made my twin and I clay demo every e-meter read and the definition of an Instant Read. When I graduated my Course Sup, Mike Pincus said I was metering like a Class VIII. I did 8 OT Levels without a single cram. I probably spent more time on that course than any other person, but when I got done I could audit.
    I never, ever forgot Jeff Walker and had a lot of respect for him. Also, his wife Sue Walker, was a friend of mine and roomate for a while when she first got into Scientology, at the time Sue Westerman of Louisiana. After she married Jeff I heard she was on tech lines at Int. Would love to know what happened to her. Any data?

    ML, Lady Minn

  242. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Thank you for telling us that.

    This stuff, for me, is key to moving forward. There is no better way we can validate LRH and give DM the finger than by untangling the mess of the path / Bridge and get back on it.

  243. Tom, Thanks for more specifics on this OT 8 “revision”. The OT 8’s as a sample group, particularly the first batch, had an inordinate percentage of people with cancer and sudden deaths’s (heart attacks). If this point of tech alteration were pushed really hard, it would impinge hard for those who might just be wondering.

  244. Martin Gibson

    Overdriver I think you need to clarify the “who” (I assume you mean people currently in the church), and the SP or class of suppressives (like middle class etc) you are referring to.
    Your grammar is a little awkward, which can make things harder to immediately grasp with certainty.
    Anyway I assume a rephrase/rewording would be:
    “Why cant people in the church (who have done the PTS/SP course) spot Miscavige as an SP?
    The purpose of the course is to spot SP’s , why can’t they do it?”

    Or maybe you mean
    1) why aren’t they doing it? (Are they just gutless)
    2) they are incomprehensibly dopey so they
    CANNOT do it.
    3) thats totally wrong and you mean they CAN spot SP’s, Miscavige isn’t one, and indies are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

    Using those should clarify it enough… perhaps it didnt get read immediately following the data YOU saw that prompted the query (which meant the data was not in the same time or space as the communication you gave, so was missing data, but that can be hard to spot if you are looking at all the data, yet unaware a large enough amount of it is only in your mind so communication, with duplication and understanding can not take place).

    Anyway, hope that helped, it felt therapeutic to me to straighten that out.

  245. Virgil Samms

    Okay, I just had a HUGE cognition.

    OT VIII, as I said before, was delivered not in its entirety. Not only that, but the upper bridge has been completely sabotaged.

    The upper bridge used to be without NOTS. NOTS came out in 1979 and it was put in place of OT III Expanded. Then in 1983 or 1984 SOLO NOTS came out. When it came out the “Old OT Sections” (OT IV, V, VI, VII) were removed, yes removed, from the grade chart -disappeared. Gone. How can you do that?

    The grade chart actually has a Solo Course as an OT Section (New OT VI). OT VII is, of course, Solo NOTs.

    Now, let me tell you what got knocked out with the “Old OT Sections.” These are actual OT Sections. Drills for OTs to make them more powerful and more, well, OT:

    Old OT IV was a wonderful level with the EP of “Never Being Trapped Again”. Now that’s a nice thing to have under your belt. How many OTs do we know are trapped in PT?

    Old OT V. I don’t have the EP with me, but the drills on this level kicked my ass in a real good direction.

    Old OT VI. Exteriorization With Full Perception. How’d you like this EP? Lots of OT drills to make a baby OT into a real fire-breathing OT. Seriously, this level was really important.

    Old OT VII. Rehabilitation of Full Intention. I think this was made as THE prerequisite of OT VIII to get OTs though it.

    Without the above OT sections, I cannot see how you can make a real OT. I think this was the ultimate sabotage of the bridge. You see, when the OT finished his negative gain he had to do these OT sections to get the gradient to OT VIII. With these knocked out it made it hard to get to OT VIII. IMO.

    I imagine this was also done for money. The old OT Sections being mainly solo drills were cheap. Most of them had less than one day theory.

    However, audited NOTs and SOLO NOTS can cost minumum $125,000 to $300,000. So if you were DM you would sabotage the OT and make more money. Then when the OT crashes, you put them on objectives for 100 hours – no less.


    ML Tom

  246. Theo Sismanides

    And who are you?

  247. Sorry to hear about your mom!

    I know of one OT VII who was dying of cancer. Everyone was preparing for her to die. She followed the advice of some and ate better BUT MAINLY — she stayed in bed and listening to hours and hours and hours of LRH tapes. All the existing OT HATTING data available at the time.

    This was 2000.

    She is alive today and cancer free. Or was the last time I was in contact with her. (about 2005) – and running a mission, I believe.


  248. I’m sure this has been covered, but It just became real to me.

    There is a pervasive 1.5 tone that I assume trickles down from upper management/COB. Thats apparently how he handles people- threats, fear, force. So I guess his juniors take on that valence, and their juniors act like that, and on down it goes until Class V orgs are acting 1.5. Force, subtle threats, the idea that you are an ethics particle if you dont donate $ and buy Basics lectures and tow the current line of the day.

    There (for me anyway) is an always present undercurrent of fear when you are dealing with the org (orgs I’ve been to). You never know when you will be attacked by a reg and end up invalidated if you dont play ball. You never know when communicating or asking a question will land you in some heavy ethics mis-handling or sec-checking or get you declared.

  249. love Phil Collins. Great song thanks for posting it. Great posts, I’d say, there is a movement a moving on up and higher!

  250. QuietDisobedience

    Not to mention we are no longer making St Hill Size orgs, which only removes the focus further from releasing OT IX and X and getting staff through their OT levels with UC teams.

  251. Mockingbird6

    Dear George,
    I do hope you and every one of us get all our OT wins rehabbed someday. We don’t need permission to be OT but it’s easy to be invalidated when we think we need that permission!

    I don’t believe any of us will attack anything other than through the legal and PR systems because that is the way we messed up and started to withhold our abilities in the first place.
    Peace, M6

  252. Tom — Thank you so much for this. It explains so much.

    As an OT VIII who completed not long after the Maiden Voyage I believe I can vouch for at least the weirdness of this Level at that time.

    The day after completing and waiting to be announced – I got so incredibly ill. I’ve never experienced ANYTHING like that. The room was spinning and going up and down. All I could do is lie in bed.

    Not wanting to spend any more time on the Ship — I said I had salt depletion and the MO and others bought it.

    It took another 4 years for my case to completely crack …

    And that is a story for another time.


  253. PlainOldThetan

    As for “blanket C/Sing”, one of the first instances of this I ran into was the “FPRD Rundown”.

    You see, I’d had FPRD. Delivered to me by a guy who was on the FPRD pilot supervised directly by LRH.

    I got this FPRD while I was on the SHSBC. Studying the a actual LRH material.

    I then got the opportunity to audit my FPRD auditor on FPRD, to good result.

    Then I trained as a C/S, supervising auditors on this material.

    THEN, I got the “FPRD Rundown”. What horse hockey. I WASN’T BROKEN. MY FPRD WASN’T BROKEN.

    All it was, was a hugely invalidative attempt to slow down my Bridge progress.

    On the other hand, I have FESed twenty folders of bogus misrun FPRD on a pc. I’ve seen what can happen with ill-trained, poorly supervised FPRD auditors.

    That pc might have been a candidate for the FPRD rundown.

    I’ll never know. All I did was the FESing.

    Regardless, assuming everyone’s FPRD was bogus was wrong.

    More recently, a friend of mine who also happened to be a person I delivered Grade I to, sent her $30,000 inheritance to Flag to finish her Grades.

    What should then wondrously appear but an R-Factor that her Objectives were unflat.

    She came to me with this tale of woe. She was now stalled on the Bridge. No way she was going to Flag for HGC rates on her Objectives, and no way she was going to commute 1200 miles back and forth to Flag to do the TRs and Objectives course.

    What’s even worse, as a trained auditor, C/S AND THE PERSON WHO AUDITED HER GRADE I, I wanted to tell her “there’s no way your Objectives are unflat”.

    It’s true. She had no drug or alcohol history, and her Objectives were done by competent auditors and C/Ses. And she manifested NO (none, zero, nada, zilch) symptoms of being unflat on her Objectives while I was auditing her.

    DM’s “blanket C/Ses” were destructive of both our Bridges.

    Thanks, Davey.

  254. Mockingbird6

    Another call for instant action! The enemy is about to annihilate us all! I have heard this before, let’s see, it was called the “Wake Up Call.” It’s used to recruit people for slavery (staff), punishment (military style sea organization), sacrifice (donations to ideal orgs, etc.) and penury.
    The reason some of us walked in the first place was this sort of thing. Don’t position yourself with DM, Please!

  255. Ray Randolph

    Re: The Adsense stuff… I think it’s great.

    See, the C0S pays for that every time you see it… And Marty gets paid (by the CoS) every time you see it. It’s absolutely deliciously wonderful that the Church is contributing to Marty’s blog financially — given that it’s the last thing they would ever really want to do.

    Help Marty out and hurt the Church… every time you see one of their ads on here, or anywhere else, Click On It! They pay every time you do and the website owner gets paid every time you do. Make it a reflex to just click those links!

  256. Freedom Fighter

    Sarge, being a critter-lover myself, that’s a very theta story. Thanks for sharing. 🙂

  257. Sarge, I’m sitting here with my morning coffee reading the blog from the bottom up.

    So first thing I see is you own “story of a squirrel.” Brightened my day;)

    Reminded me of how my compost heap had to be turned into a grounghog feeding trough, since they are putting a road right up against the woods on my property line. Now I’ve got a bunch of orphans on my hands.

    Then reading Fidelios post basically calling for an all hands clean up crew.

    And yes, my exact thought was about how as a green staff member I’d hang onto every word Ron said about OT’s because I was intending the be one right from the start.

    Then I read this from you;
    ” I know from working on LRH’s
    lines that he expected you to be OT. He never asked where you are on the grade chart?”

    You nailed it right there. I’ve always felt that even on some of the most introductory courses one gets everything they need to be OT… just a com course fully IN is quite something to be reckoned. We have everything we need and it’s obvious the time is now.

    I know for myself after over 20 years offlines that when I started reading this blog I was in bitter apathy. Some of my posts to Marty were downright snarky at the start. You couldn’t have convinced me a couple of months ago that I could ever see this much hope again.

  258. Somehow it fits. The hair, the protegé, the greed.

  259. yes, stand up. stand up at the next event. get out of your seats and call him on his bullshit. walk on stage, carry him out, and throw that bum in the street.
    maybe give him an “sra” as a parting gift.

  260. Thought Provoking

    Apologizing in advance if this is duplicated, got bounced out of the blog when I hit enter.

    Welcome Louise!

    Seems like you already have a great group of friends here to greet you. I look forward to hearing your story in the near future!

  261. Tony DePhillips

    Sounds good Nightmares Getting Less.

    That name of yours reminds me of the joke about how the Indian boy got his name. I will tell it to you sometime.


  262. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Fellow Traveller!!

    That is a Metheny classic, nice touch!

    Do we know each other by the way?

  263. Thought Provoking

    Only with the truth can as-isness truly occur.

    Thank you for telling us the truth of your experience. It certainly does leave one to question the results of the delivery.

  264. Tony DePhillips

    Great story Kha Khan,

    Looks like you were truly operating on your own integrity and Code of Honor. VWD!!


  265. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Heather and Theo, Christie, Shelley and Sinar.


  266. Joe,

    Management is soooo misunderstood. Someone (I forgot who) said a being is only as valuable as he can serve others. Management is only as valuable as it serves others. Serves. That includes those “lower” on the org board. Management serves.

    Having a higher position on the org board is NOT really an increased opportunity to give orders and boss others around, but a greater opportunity to serve. It’s an opportunity to get terminals in place and lines in place so that production can occur. It’s an increased opportunity to help, not an opportunity to be helped.

    Part of every manager’s hat is understanding both ARC and KRC. Knowing improves control. Knowing that another has expertise you lack is part of that. Dir Processing comes up and says, “Joe, Mrs Jones just gave an ARC broken exam. Folder’s on your desk. I’m lining up an auditor. Room 33 in half an hour. Let’s get her handled.”

    Lines and terminals. Particles flowing. Particles converted. Products produced.

    Org board has nothing to do with “I’m your boss so you have to do what I say.” Org board has to do with getting the job done.

    In a properly functioning org board, a “junior” should be able to tell a “senior,” “Fuck off. That’s dev-t. You by-pass proper lines and terminals again with this crap I’m going to throw you out that window.”

    All posts must be allowed to exercise control, demonstrate competence and apply skills.

    It’s not the admin system but the misapplication of the admin system.


  267. You should tell her to refund her money from Flag for not delivering what they promised, and that her Objectives are fine as you personally compared their EPs with the LRH references on the subject. Then tell her to go up the Bridge as an Independent and get all the gains available to her.

  268. Thought Provoking


  269. Jeff Walker is out.
    This is a long write up by a Cl XII (who is also out)
    that adds more data to our multiple viewpoint system: http://www.antisectes.net/class12.htm

    I do not know where he is, but I too, hold him in high regard technically.

    SP’s get rid of the good staff.

  270. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Penny,

    I’m glad that you had the courage to look also.

    The tide is turning. The more people in the church we get looking the better! We all can’t be careful and hiding or the word won’t get out. It is like the reference “Conditions, Fail to Assign” my paraphrase of it is that you get the condition that you don’t assign and enforce. Well, we have assigned it but now we have to enforce the condition we are assigning to DM. That will happen by the feild withdrawing their support from him. We don’t need any external help to get him off post. We just have to get the word out is all.

    I am really glad you are here Penny.

    E-mail me sometime if you want. a.dephillips@comcast.net


  271. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Thoughtful,

    We miss you over at your site!! But I heard that your pulling in some good stuff, so good for you!!

    Can you add me and my wife’s names to the Indie list?


  272. Tony DePhillips

    Thanks Truth,

    I find myself disseminating to Scientologists now the way I would have in the past to non-Scientologists. The people on-lines are very PTS to all this. They don’t know what is really going on. I always try to get them to go over the button of “is it ok for you to look?”. That is the first thing they have to agree to. If they don’t think they should look then they won’t look.

    Also I try not to make it too serious. It is just a game and have fun with it. Even if you make some mistakes, it will all work out as long as we all are DOING things.


  273. PlainOldThetan

    Oh, yeah. To the point of “blanket C/Sing”.

    C/S Series 42 decries repeating actions on a case. “The deadliest faults on cases are running the same action or grade twice. This drives TAs up through the roof.”

    And C/S series 43 decries making trouble for the pc. “Never make trouble for the pc. When a pc is running well, let it roll. The C/S can spot a *possible* error but if the pc iw wide F/N VGIs at the Eam, let it go.”

    Of course, if Davey had actually trained, he’d know that. And if he knows it, then ordering OT VIIIs to redo Objectives is SUPPRESSIVE, SUPPRESSIVE, SUPPRESSIVE.

  274. Tony DePhillips


    This sounds like DM’s blanket justification of why so many OT’s are leaving his “church”. I guess we all didn’t really make it and therefore found him as bad?? It also makes the remainder of the bots “right” for hanging in there and getting more of the “lost technology”. The thing is, won’t peple start asking themselves: He keeps having us redo things, doesn’t that mean that nobody really know what they are doing and we have all been wasting our money??!! Hey let’s get him!!


  275. This LRH reference explains so much about why people are accepting crazy stuff like Idle Orgs, heavy recruiting, etc.

    It’s from the lecture “Decision” on Route To Infinity. 20 May 1952, and it rocks!

    It explains how anybody, driven down the scale, will eventually accept the crazy stuff like we see with DM, and then agree to FORCE it upon others.

    Check it out:

    “…And we get down here to–this is getting way down the line here. We get decisions to force irrational decisions into effect. Where is that on the Tone Scale? What is it? 1.5 That…1.5, they’re wonderful at that. They’re always making decisions to put irrationalities into effect. The second you show them an irrationality, they’ll put it into effect. If you show them a rationality, they won’t put it into effect. It’s as much as your life’s worth. As a matter of fact, if you want a 1.5 to act, what you do is demonstrate that what you want to do is irrational, and then they’ll make you do it. You see how it is? You show them what you want to do is completely irrational, then they’ll make you do it. That’s a fact, it works.” LRH

  276. Tony DePhillips

    Of course there are good people in the church still. ALL people are basically good. The fact is, let us not get so serious that we cannot have some fun also. There are Kool aid drinkers and Bots and I was one of them also. So what?? The thing to do is to wake them up in the best manner possible and the stats tell the tale. Everyone can have their own theories but what are their stats for waking people up?? I would like to hear real life examples of people actually DOING something. Then I will listen more to what they have to say on what is the best approach.


  277. Tony DePhillips

    Great points Pirates wife!!

  278. Thought Provoking


    It was discovering my own OT abilities as a newbie that really made Scientology an interesting subject. At the same time, I intimately knew OTs that had almost no reality on this type of ability.

    I was shocked and had assumed that was part and parcel to being OT. Strangely, it was out reality and only invalidation of my abilities made up for their lack of them. It was only then that I realized a person is only as OT as he allows himself to be, no matter where he is on the grade chart.

    I too used to seek confirmation and approval only to be pulled into another person’s viewpoint, smaller than my own. When I started applying the code of honor to myself and my abilities, things really improved, and that’s greatly understating it.

    It is easy when you are not highly trained or processed to assume that others know what is best for yor case. One of the reasons that these blogs are so important is to educated the public on what is happening with the tech inside the church so that they can make informed decisions about their progress, the church and their dynamics.

    That applies to any public whether they have only recently started or have gone all the way up the bridge. The real OTs you mention are right here on this blog and their weapon of chice is TRUTH.

  279. Another Layer,

    As an OT who is still in the church, let me say a couple of things in response to your post:

    1) I’m an OT, so don’t EVER tell me what to do.

    2) I, and others, do stand up for ourselves every moment of every day.

    3) Look up to us all that you want, but may I suggest to you look up to yourself first because if you are going to assign me cause, I CAN make it painful.

    4) Are you being presumptuous? Absolutely. Suggestion – why don’t you slam on YOUR OT hat and handle a few things yourself?

    5) Look up “improper behavior” and you’ll see my picture along with a few of my friends.

    OK, back to the course room. Thank you, thank you very much and y’all have a nice day….

  280. I think the How to Set Up a Session checklist contains “blankets”, if the PC gets too cold….

    Only “C\S” I know of that contains blankets. 🙂

  281. Thought Provoking


    Your at it again with another wonderful post. Very profound ideas mentioned here!

    Two thoughts crossed my mind as I read. The first,

    “Power requires terminals. Power requires the flow of energy. And energy only flows when there are terminals of comparable magnitude.”

    made me wonder why he targeted TC to be his inseparable sidekick and BF.

    Could it be that TC was his comparable terminal in terms of non-Scientology public, that when allied with, could strengthen DMs apparent power?

    The other thought I had was in regards to objectives and OT8s. I agree that these could be beneficial and eventually serve as a detriment to DM if it had been just to to the processes. But to include it as an arbitrary 100s of hours to EP, don’t you think that after a while, you’d hit protest? Especially if any of these OT8s didn’t get delivered the full goods.

  282. Thought Provoking


    You said that way better than I did! Not sudden at all!


  283. In the 2ND AMERICAN ACC, The Rehabilitation of the Human Spirit, in a lecture called “Granting of Beingness,” LRH says:

    “But above all those things is an individual’s ability to grant beingness to the moment. Grant beingness to the past, to the future, grant beingness to others, grant beingness to his own objects. And grant beingness and then not be afraid of it. And having granted beingness, why, go right on granting more beingness, rather than stop granting beingness simply because some of it bit him.

    “The main beingness that bites him is that which he granted, but that’s no reason not to grant beingness. So? That merely makes it so that one has a lot of drama. There’s no drama like the drama you get into, having granted beingness to something which then bites back.

    “One cannot become able in life by fearing to live it. Never. And he can’t be himself without being willing to grant beingness, because he’s the only one that can grant beingness to himself.”

  284. Can you clarify with specifics? What were the names of the “bad guys” and can a “you” singular, become a plural “guys”? Who’s lived were ruined by him, do you have some names and how the lives were ruined? Can you also tell us how many lives were saved by the NOT’s auditor in addition to Tom Cruise so we can do the math? What evidence of German military involvement is on record? Thanks for the clarification.

  285. I think we need a call to action to step forward.

    It is time for the lurkers on this blog to step into some big boots and scream to the heavens


    2. Create Indie Scientology Association
    2. Create Dissem Div.
    2. Acquire DM-Bot CF for L.A. area.
    3. Request Donations from Members (Books to be transparent)
    4. Send monthly Indie newsletter emphasizing:

    a. Standard LRH Tech.
    b. Indie Success Stories
    c. Future of Scientology.

    Keep it light and Theta.

    Expect serious DM legal Retaliation.

    Are you ready to divvi up?

    NOTS came out in 1979 and it was put in place of OT III Expanded. Then in 1983 or 1984 SOLO NOTS came out.

    According to David Mayo who was auditing him at that time, LRH started to run SOLO NOTs on himself in the late 70’s.

  286. Chris Black

    The best and the brightest are out here, in the independent field, continuing LRH’s game, not the Nameless One’s game. 🙂

    Chris (happily going about the business of clearing people, making them brighter and happier, and auditing and C/Sing for them alone.)

  287. Thought Provoking


    “I know for myself after over 20 years offlines that when I started reading this blog I was in bitter apathy. Some of my posts to Marty were downright snarky at the start. You couldn’t have convinced me a couple of months ago that I could ever see this much hope again.”

    Yah! So good to hear this!

  288. Crack … and not in a good way.


  289. Once Upon a Michael,
    That is a rhetorical ‘what problem is DM trying to solve’ and as you say, a non-standard listing question. Whatever the actual problem DM is as a being, caught up in, is the problem. Only he will be able to spot it exactly.

    The basic confusion prior to the myriad lies that followed, the ‘cures’ that became the next problem, and its ‘cure’ and on to the complexity we witness, is resolved by confronting and as-ising that confusion. The answer to the question is the question if one follows the duplication aspect of the comm formula exactly.

    Your KRC/ARC expressed on these blogs goes a long way to helping those experiencing a problem with DM’s problem, duplicate it and having done so, hopefully as-is any potential prior confusion and avoid unecessary ‘cures’ on their own parts.

    In the end, DM will, one could postulate, be able to do the same, and his ‘cures’ for that problem he’s not duplicated will all, thankfully, not be administered to the rest of us, at any time in the forseeable future.

    Power is indeed flowing on these lines. There is ‘spooky action at a distance’. Thetans, at work and even back at play.

    Now, if it would just stop raining I could get the acres of grass cut and the rest of the beggietables planted. Then it’s me and the deer in a game over the beans for the rest of the summer. Maybe I’ll eat one of them and have it with the beggietables in October.

  290. Thought Provoking

    Now this all makes sense to me. I had known about the changes in the OT levels (generally) but had no understood its impact until you mentioned only getting part of OT8.

    You know, it’s a damn good thing that I made some really great case gain when I was in session. The amount of departure over the last 20+ years is astounding! I’ve never done the OT levels and don’t know how I’d feel if I had paid all that money for what is currently called the bridge. What a complete rip off! I think I might have just walked away, missing the true value of what is there to be gained by the OT levels. That Scientology has lasted this long is nothing short of a miracle.

  291. Sarge,
    Babies! Yes, we have some too, not with the squirrel, but the red fox, lots of birds (too many to name), and I’m sure the garden munching deer will have their spotted ones for view shortly.

    Haven’t seen Robert, the Downy Woodpecker for a while. I did see his new girl though, and I’m sure they’ve tucked away in the yard somewhere in one the old elms, and are bringing up Robbie II.

    I watched the Bald Eagle down the road, overhead about 40 feet as he circled the Sawmill Brook looking for trout. I don’t know if he had luck, but I did. He might wanna try flyfishing.

  292. Tom,
    Oh yeah! The original levels may be gone in DMology, they aren’t elsewhere. Good thing too.

    I’m still on the ‘negative’ gain OT levels, but looking forward to the abilities drilled and regained ones up the line. Shhhh, don’t mention it but, I’m practicing ahead of time. I’ve got my eye on ‘Carnegie Hall’ and I’ve heard that’s how you get there.

  293. Thought Provoking

    Not only is this tone level experienced with the public, it is also experienced with the staff.

    There is so much pressure to get products in an already ARCXen field that the staff walk around in terror of their seniors. If you have the opportunity to personally observe the staff you will see that many have a nervous hysteria sitting right under the surface. It is sad but a great drill for obnosis and the tone scale (especially on Thursday morning before 2 or for and IAS event).

    It speaks volumes about the high blow rate in the orgs and the sheer desperation that hits in when a staff member blows. It doesn’t matter what post you are on, if you had any comm line with the person you are elected as part of the recovery team.

    The reason for orgs has been forgotten completely.

  294. PlainOldThetan

    Cognition: the Bridge is no longer a bridge, it’s a cul-de-sac.

    1. a street, lane, etc., closed at one end; blind alley; dead-end street.
    2. any situation in which further progress is impossible.
    (Random House unabridged dictionary of the English language)

  295. I think higher-up admin terminals are supposed to be technically trained and able auditors.

  296. The best “Story of a Squirrel” I ever heard! That’s what love is 🙂

  297. What a fabulous post. I can tell you are a thinking person that can connect the dots! This is the truth. And there are other truths to consider.

    My last statement upon leaving the Sea Org was: “It was not part of my contract to live with an SP on my lines.”

    One must sperate CULTURE from science.

    There is aculture grown up around the Sea Org that has become huge compared to the science.

    Point: There is a know to mystery scale. It is right there in a book for anyone to KNOW about.
    That is Hubbard’s wisdom and what he KNEW that he wanted you and I to KNOW also.

    There is a culture of NOT KNOW in the Sea Org though that is agreed upon. You cannot have a phone or open your own mail or watch t.v. or read an outside book or be on the internet. NOT KNOW NOT KNOW is the command of the day and the biggest agreement of all! And all of those staff are right in agreement with being told to stay out of KNOW on the know to mystery scale.

    This is one little example. There are hundreds if not thousands red flags of anti scientology practice going on hourly in the Sea Org.

    EXCHANGE is gone south. Beggars dressed in uniforms and given titles like “registrar” are groomed to hit the members.

    I could write a book of outpoints and carnival tricks of the complete anti Scientology agreement festered in those camps daily.

    Do I think they are all pts? No. I think they are ats (actual trouble sources) just coined by me.

    The people out here on this forum are the ones working to bring others up to KNOW from NOT KNOW and they ARE FIGHTING back against the suppression.

    That does not = PTS.

    That = Handle or disconnect.

    So, refer to your materials. See that handle and / or disconnect is a remedy. And you can see the truth in that what is happening here is people fighting back against suppression as they have been encouraged to do with the PTS SP materials.

    And the truth is just because one is not PTS doesn’t mean suppression does not exist to be handled. Getting the PTS rundown does not erase all of the suppression in the galaxy for everyone. Just one. And we will not suvive in an “only one” frame of mind in this section of the universe. Just list all of the terminals who made it possible for you to read this post, starting with who designed your computer.

  298. Watching Eyes


    The dwarf is not winning this battle. Absolutely not.

    People have bailed by the boatload, many are refunding, DM’s PR stinks, the “church” PR stinks too, their only product these days is how much $$$ is regged and if that weren’t bad enough they’ve got a psycho for a leader. Some leader! He’s taking them right down the toilet.

    Remember the old saying, “the darkest hour is just before dawn”? Keep it in mind and go take a nice relaxing walk on the beach at sunset. It’ll refocus your attention and then you’ll see whose really winning the battle.

  299. Plain Old Thetan, Bingo! sad but true inside MacScientology.

    –>> Cognition: the Bridge is no longer a bridge, it’s a cul-de-sac.

  300. Once upon a time;

    LRH knew better, he told us where on the grade chart we get objectives.
    Or do you know a different LRH reference???

  301. Goddess, your anger bespeaks your BPC * (By Passed Charge — upset that is stirred up but not addressed/ as-is’d). You may have taken Another Layer’s post as evaluation and/or possible wrong indication, but I’m not auditing you.

    I will suggest looking up “Pan-determined”.

    …and you’ll learn in the course room (if that’s where you’re going) that it’s a little out gradient to blast a nonClear, nonOT who has expressed admiration for the state of OT to “slam on their own OT hat” and “handle a few things”.

    You obviously felt personally attacked and I (personal opinion) don’t think that was the intent of Another Layer.

    And you call Another Layer “presumptuous”?

    And you call yourself “Goddess”. Well, goddesses who hurl lightning bolts to humans who approach Olympus don’t hold the temple long.

    BTW, I speak as someone who does “handle many things myself. ”

    I understand the trust and earnest admiration AnotherLayer expressed for the state of OT. True, it’s as different as every being is different — but, there are some “standards” to measure, IMHO: the better the will, the greater the Power; the vaster the Wisdom, the greater the love; the greater the Love, the influence is …pretty infinite. Because then all Life in with one.

    I hope you handle the BPC — and I’m glad you’re at last reading and communicating in here.

    and if you ARE “inside” the regime, I have no doubt — none — that you are seeing a lot of things that are very arbitrary and abusive.

    Thanks for being here.

  302. CoS is cratering hard. What is going on inside is a propaganda battle for control of people’s minds and identities. This battle is concealed as Ethics, FPRD, etc.

  303. This is the ONE thing I DO NOT FORGIVE, and DO NOT FORGET.

    Sabotaging delivery world wide is …..well, you all know what it is. Most of us can abide some out-tr’s, or mis-called F\N’s once in a while..its no big deal. BUT DELIBERATELY promoting “Scientology” and delivering enslavement betrays not just the current scngsts, but those on the sidelines, and those just arriving. It throws the whole subject in to disrepute. DM has, in 20 years, completely tanked the PR, and “good will” of the subject, and altered it beyond all recognition.

    That is one guy that is on my “never to be trained or processed list”. (The only one, so far, I might add.)

    Your Mileage May Vary.

  304. Miscaveges “circular bridge” as MrjRinder stated it so elequently.

    “The carousel, dating from 1895, was bought by Efteling from Hendrik Janvier , who had toured with it to local funfairs, and has been operating in the park since 11 May 1956.
    Hendrik Janvier (1868-1932), considered to be the founding father of the salon carousel, sold the Carousel because of the high costs and declining income. Building the ride up took 4 days and it had to be transported with 25 train carriages and trucks.”


  305. Sarge,
    That’s the reason I don’t bring up my “case level” in conversation because it’s irrelevant. A thetan is a thetan … and where theta is in action, it’s an operating thetan.

    For me, personally, I wanted to “go OT” because I *was* operating as a thetan.

    We also see the evidence of theta operating — in great works of art, in brilliant ideas, in kindness, in duty and loyalty and true friendships, in raising families, in scientific advances, with innovation …

    And, nevertheless, that is what makes the tech and Bridge to OT absolutely brilliant — it is living lightning, and I wish all thetans the relief and joy of being able to fully stretch out and not bump their “elbows” into anything:)

  306. Oh,Sarge, I love the critter story! I’ve been communing with wild critters myself. And saw two baby squirrels scampering together and “learning the ropes” … Life is marvelous in all its forms!

  307. I like this idea.

  308. PlainOldThetan

    Alas, her husband is mid his 18th year on OTVII and still has hope the Church will finish him. She will not go indie if it means abandoning him and his dream.

  309. Thought Provoking

    Love it! Thank you!

  310. Thought Provoking

    “So, refer to your materials. See that handle and / or disconnect is a remedy. And you can see the truth in that what is happening here is people fighting back against suppression as they have been encouraged to do with the PTS SP materials.”

    And I believe that the intention is to “handle” terminatedly so that those who are still being suppressed can be free once again.

  311. Theo Sismanides


    Your “comment” struck me like a thunder! We have been hearing about altered OT levels in a very nebulous way.

    Now this end phenomena you are talking about are very, very clear for an OT.

    What the hell is going on? Do you have those drills? What the others here say?

    I have been convinced DM didn’t want the Planet to go Clear and OT. Before leaving we did a test on him with the translations, found out the guy is SP and nobody could do anything from inside and we left.

    Now this is a MEGA thing you are saying here. No wonder…

    This is to be posted as a separate thread and discussed and… and… and….

    I don’t know what to say…

  312. Theo Sismanides

    Hey Jimbo, you remind me of the submarine chrysanthemums in the PDCs. OK, let’s go have a beer, man! Completely theta and non-sequitur from a theta viewpoint not a homo sapiens one. I hope you know which tape I am refering to. He mentions there how thetans talk and there is no logic to that. It’s a key out when you write like that.

  313. Awww cute! No SO to stop that squirrel from having lil adorable babies! We have a fox that we take very good care of… she loves our leftover meat!

  314. Trey,

    Don’t get too busy, as I have decided that you are going to be my auditor when I am ready to resume my Bridge in the indy field. The thought of ONE auditor, all the way up, and 100% LRH to boot, is just a dream scenario to me.

    One request, can you deliver in Latin? It just sounds so noble.

    Is Est Session!


  315. Theo Sismanides

    Joe, I agree with Once Upon a Time.

    In a 3 terminal Org Board LRH says it clearly that the OES is the ED. And then in another reference he says that a manager who doesn’t know how to lay bricks let’s the people who know how to do it, the breaks layers do it while getting hatted on the production himself/herself.

    So it’s not the admin or the org board. We haven’t really seen good administrators with DM, yes we have seen bad administrators intervening with tech terminals when they shouldn’t.

    But that not the Org Board’s fault.

  316. Great post, Solace.

    Quite a picture of an untrained NCG executive CSing for OT VIIIs and down, resulting in a squirell cage for those still in.

  317. Goddess,

    1. Have you been CSed for Objectives, purif or actions lower than your OT level?

    2. If so, are you going to do these objectives or whatever?

  318. crashingupwards

    Lady Min, I heard he was in Australia. But I am not sure. Mike Pincus is in Texas.

  319. Mike Hobson

    We are doing just fine as-is without any centralized organization of any kind. I prefer to keep it that way, as it gives DM no target to come after, infiltrate and destroy.

    Michael A. Hobson

  320. Veritas,

    No, not angry. Sorry if it came across that way. I tend to be a bit direct and hopefully with ARC, but I don’t always succeed. Obviously writing has its liabilities.

    My intent was not to slam Another Layer but to treat him/her as the OT they most likely are because, well, that’s the only way I know to make one. Treat people as competent and most will step up to the plate.

    My screen name is just that – a screen name. But it would be cool to be able to throw a few lightning bolts around; I’ll admit that! And I do have a list of people…LOL

    I am sure you, and everyone else, does handle things and if you are like me, I could do more.

    I can’t say that I see any abusive behavior at all. Sure, people go off policy and it really is just a matter of KSW. Yeah, there are arbitraries but again, it’s just a matter of following LRH.

    No, I didn’t take the post personally but I wanted to communicate back that many of us OT’s out here are handling things and improving conditions and keeping the dream alive.

    Pan-determined? What the hell do you think I’m doing out here AND posting on the blog? Talk about a game….LOL

  321. Another Layer


    Well, hello! It takes great courage for you to read, let alone post to Marty’s blog. I certainly meant no offense.

    Yes, I do look up to you as an OT for the incredible sacrifices you have made (and apparently will continue to make) and for leadership. After all, in my opinion, you are there well ahead of me, lighting the way. But that in no way equates with assigning you the hat of being my Cause. I am very happy with that hat, thank you kindly.

  322. Another Layer


    Thank you, thank you, thank you for duplicating so beautifully both sides of this particular coin. With all respect.

  323. Mike Hobson


    If you feel that comments you posted have been disallowed, you should be aware of a couple of things:
    (1) WordPress Blog hosting software is imperfect and may occassional give errors during comment submission, so pay close attention to whether your comment actually shows up in the coments list with the phrase “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
    If you don’t see that, then the submission failed.

    (2) It can take a couple of days for submitted comments to pass moderation and appear on the blog for others to view, if the moderators are busy with other “real world” activities.

    Michael A. Hobson

  324. martyrathbun09

    Pierre, You sound really keyed in; dubbing in quite heavily too, at least with respect to what you falsely attribute to me. Scientology can handle that. Take a page from Sudden Sarge’s playbook – that is get a good, strong handle on your case – or I am afraid this will be your last comment here.

  325. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Louise!!

    VWD for taking the jump. Welcome!!


  326. Another Layer

    Undisturbed, Quicksilver, Oracle, Fellow Traveller, Theo,

    Thanks so much! Y’all are the best!

  327. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Pierre!

    I am glad you are helping so many people. My wife is a Quebequa and I know you guys can have a temper!! I heard many great things about you and hope to meet you sometime.

    Thanks for dedicating your life to helping people!!


  328. Goddess :

    My intent was not to slam Another Layer but to treat him/her as the OT they most likely are because, well, that’s the only way I know to make one.

    When you called another Layer “presumptuous” and said “don’t EVER tell me what to do”, it did come across like a bit of a slam (lightning bolt) — whether written or spoken, the effect would be the same …unless you were laughing, smiling or chuckling as typing … then I can see where the written word has its limitations (liabilities).

    Other than that, the written word is a pretty good way to communicate.

    You say you don’t see abusive behavior inside the “church” Regime … not knowing who you are, what your post is, how you are regged, etc. I can only say that you must not be aware of the fixed stats, the waste, the stalking, the crush reg cycles, interruption of auditing actions, $ driven CSing and multiple outpoints that many people (many OTs) have come forth and compared notes on.

    Your com to Another Layer (“don’t EVER tell me what to do” — maybe you only fabricated it as a tone level , i.e. you didn’t genuinely feel the emotion — but your comm did come across as defensive and angry.

    You said you are treating another Layer as though he/she is OT … that contradicts your following statement:

    You say treating a person as though they are OT is the only way you know how to “make one”.

    I personally disagree that putting duress on people or slamming them is treating someone as an OT. Sure, people can withstand pretty much anything, but the route to OT exists with the tech of Scientology.

    That attitude of putting people through the ringer to attain OT (because they already are OT) seems to be a bit of an arbitrary.

    Thank you for being here and communicating. If you don’t opp term me, then yes, you are pan determined!

    Are you OT 8? Will you be doing objectives?

  329. Mina,

    I don’t pretend to know what LRH knew and didn’t. I only know what I know. And then I frequently change my mind when that seems appropriate.

    That LRH put communication, problems, overts, ARC breaks, and ser facs below Clear does not mean that someone who has reached higher OT levels will not get gains dealing with communication, problems, overts, ARC breaks and ser facs on a higher awareness and higher harmonic.

    Communication as a body differs from communication via a body which differs from communication as a thetan without bodies.

    Same with objectives. Getting an EP as a body/human differs from getting an EP as a thetan.

    When you examine objectives you’re looking at how a thetan uses communication, control and havingness. The objectives were a means of actually witnessing whether the pc was actually doing a command. You could see what he was doing.

    Objectives were developed long before the grade chart. And were run on OTs to great gains back in the fifties. So, just because the objective processes are placed waaaaayyyyy down at the bottom of the grade chart does not mean that running them on an OT will not produce fantastic results. The proof is in the pudding. The proof is that LRH was running those processes on OTs when he developed them.

    So, if you have a later reference that specifically states objectives cannot be run on an OT, I would be curious to see it. “Tech Degrades” would imply otherwise, otherwise. Especially since LRH used to do this and doing this produced successful results.

    In creative processing and a lot of earlier OT materials LRH drilled/audited individuals on mocking things up and moving them around. Communication, control and havingness.

    Simplistically, a body is a particle which a thetan uses. To the degree that he uses communication, control and havingness with that particle (body) he is successful with that body. Same with mental image pictures. Same with “spots” in space.

    You might reread what I wrote because what you inferred was not what I implied.

    But, thanks for trying to keep me honest–an unholy task at best.


  330. Mike Hobson,

    “We are doing just fine as-is without any centralized organization of any kind. I prefer to keep it that way, as it gives DM no target to come after, infiltrate and destroy.”

    I could not agree more!

    The reason Marty is still free to move about and act despite DM spending millions (think about that….millions!), of real U.S. dollars out of IAS coffers to stop him, is because DM’s attorneys have absolutely NOTHING to shoot at.

    Marty, can you possibly elaborate on that in a new unit of time?

    You can put it into words much better than I because you are the one experiencing it.


  331. For Pierre and to whom it may concerns.

  332. Jim,

    Was raining like crazy here also. So bad yesterday that when we went to the gym we couldn’t see the car in front of us.

    When I read your first post I was thinking, “Ah, Jim’s wondering the same thing I am.” What’s actually motivating this guy? Not what seems to be. What’s he trying to solve?

    As for the deer, try planting poison ivy. I hear they love it. Or plant extra beans and put up a sign in deer language that says, “hey guys, this is your share, the rest is mine.” I’m sure they’ll accommodate.



    Should I say this?

    Or, you can threaten them with a couple hundred hours of objectives if they don’t leave your friggin’ beans alone.


  333. Quicksilver

    Why does Miscavige like Tom Cruise?

    This is very calculated … Tom had great PR in both the Scientology world and the non- Scientology world. Tom is famous. Tom gets attention. Tom gets adulation.

    DM knows Tom is more famous and better known. DM wants that. DM knows others are bigger. DM feels inadequate. He needs to make others smaller to appear bigger.

    As for Tom, DM only hangs around him to leech some of the admiration & to be seen with Tom. He does not need Tom’s money … he needs Tom’s agreement that DM is ok.

    To lose Tom as a ‘friend’ would crush DM.

    It is extremely important to DM to be liked & admired by others. It pains him when he is not obeyed & admired.

    He sits alone in his room and constantly wonders about this & constantly calculates his next move to have others obey & like him.

    He loves the stage … he loves to be interestING and looked at. The only reason he would ever be interestED in others would be to gain something for himself.

    He is a small & lonely man.

  334. Terril Park

    I’d just like to put in a good word for FPRD here.
    I read the tech and figured that my self restraint was not this life O/Ws, done and redone etc, and thus elected to do some FPRD. The first general list best I recall. One of the best things I ever did. The equal of OT2 & 3 for me.

    Ran pre mest incidents blowing ser facs and
    mucho mucho wows!

    Often I couldn’t get in session as was going ext or persistent F/N. The C/S in a stroke of brilliance asked if I was witholding wins or success stories. Big time! So before every next session I wrote a success story. Got in session.Wish I could see them now. Its the brit stiff upper lip thing…

    So, very nearly regained the pre scn ability to ext at will. [ 8 years of trying and succeding as a teenager]

    Then really keen to go OT went to St Hill to redo CCRD. Having run creating the mest universe etc I was wondering can I be clear with all this weird recall?

    Well….Having been even then an old timer was given A-J and PDH check on my alledged CCRD!
    Cutting a long story short.

    So left for good. LOL!

    There are some refs in vols on connection of
    O/W and OT.

    Doing this stuff enforced in the circunstances at flag when one is trying to do something else is
    a way different ball game.

    Off the wall teenagers entering TTC doing
    O/W write ups for months? Yuck!

    I’m very interesting in LRH piloting of this which I never heard of. Note FPRD issues are from 1984.

  335. Shane and Chrissie

    Oi! Chrissie! OSA put me in charge so knock off the backflash! 😀

  336. You are welcome!

  337. Quicksilver

    Slagging each other does not work.

    There should be respect – you are both highly trained – much more than most if not all on this blog.

    Judgment, tact & clean communication goes a long way.

    If I may hazard a guess, there was ARC before the falling out.

  338. Welcome Pierre,

    I for one am grateful what the assitance you exteneded to me when I reached in your direction. And I have seen the constant stream of requests for assistance from those recently audited at Flag. I hope you have time to contribute more.

    I know there are heavy ARCX’s on the Flag Delivery lines….the Flag audtors and Crew were decimated by RTC, and completely invalidated when the “Golden Age of Dreck” was slammed in.
    In the spirit of “the greater good” I would ask that rather than going in to “op term” mode, that some personal and private 2WC be embarked upon. Both of you are extremely valuable people, paticularly when you are in the chair and getting products. I “know” what it feels like to be beaten not just in to non-existence, but beyond that into being something else. It is heavy…. I think anyone in the independant movement sees that operating basis for what it is, and no longer has ANY agreement with it.

    I for one am glad you took the time to post.

  339. Concerned Citizen

    Caliwog and johnny d

    You have made it abundantly clear that you feel Scientology is not valid. You have in fact made that point clear over and over. WE GET IT
    No one here is trying to turn you into scientologist, so I feel that if you cannot respect our views, if you cannot concede that may be we find something of value in it, then please abstain from commenting in that invalidative fashion.
    You have been heard; we get how you feel and would really appreciate your participating here constructively. Your snide comments however are far from constructive, they are often rude and underhanded at best and I’m frankly getting tired of them. There are plenty of places where you can get your ideas expressed and agreed with, in the fashion in which you comment here.
    Cat Daddy and Heather feel much like you do, but manage to practice tolerance and respect our perspectives. They are always welcomed and their comments and perspective are constructive and respectful. It is our right to believe whatever we wish and I ask that you abstain from further commenting on it as if I was delusional for my religious views.

    I concede and have conceded before, that there is no way to guarantee all I hold to be true really is, I could be wrong and know that, but for now this path seems to hold the answers I searched for and it is helping me, if I’m wrong, I’ll sure find it out on my own logic and not because you insist on mentioning how Scientology is a scam or how LRH is responsible for the current situation.

    It is not only rude, it is also a covert invalidation and if you haven’t yet noticed, the hall mark of this board is it’s Friendliness built on tolerance. If you can’t practice it then please find a board that suits your agenda, there are hundreds of them. And please don’t accuse me of censoring you; you have both made the same point unobstructed time and time again. But if that is all you have to say, and then we heard you so please move on and respect our beliefs in your comments, if you can’t then please save it for other boards.

  340. Shane and Chrissie

    I am afraid we have created a monster though! If we miss feeding Red (our fox) for a few days she goes through our trash and throws it all over the driveway.

  341. Sarge
    Thank you!!!! You have no idea how much I needed theta today.
    It did make my day. Actually it made my week.
    You incredibly perceptive son of a gun 😀

    (Marty can you post this one – not the other – Shane and Chrissie been posting from my computer! LOL)

  342. Watching Eyes

    Far be it from me to jump in the middle of something between you and Marty. That said, I do thave two thoughts:

    1. You’ve both done a tremendous amount to clean up a messed up field. I don’t think anyone cares what did or didn’t happen previously. The job at hand is too important for public airing of ARCX’s. That feeds right into DM’s hand.

    2. Third Party?

  343. rory medford

    Looks like this post has hit a chord with the OT8’s. This post is for sure waking up lots of OT’s ( all levels) to the insanity they MUST go through under the control of DM and Company. They should read the book “STOP the Insanity”

  344. rory medford

    awesome new term!! It is also the bridge to nowhere or never never land and you end up in a swamp, hole or is it the RPF?

  345. Mockingbird6

    Back to the point of whether we should all come “out” right away or not–why should we save OSA all the time and money and worry of trying to find out who we are, where we are, how many of us we are, and which opinion leaders are among us, by revealing ourselves? I say, waste as much of their resources as possible. I love the idea of being Fabian, and Ron recommended it too.
    ML, M6

  346. Another Layer

    There it is! Thanks so much!

  347. Freedom Fighter

    Wahoo!! Awesome song! One of my favorite Phil Collins songs ever. Love this video of it too. Interesting listening to it in a new unit of time under the present circumstances . . .

    Thanks for posting, Tom!

  348. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Foremost,

    I generally like your idea. I think that we are de-PTSing ourselves as individuals right now and as an organization we need to be very organized before we make any BIG moves. I think that a legal team needs to be organized first to be ready for the church’s attack that will surely come once any tangible structure is put into place.

    I can see things happening in this way too:

    1. Get as many people as possible out in the open as Independents. ( by the way are you coming out?) Say 500-1000.
    2. Get someone who wants to be the leader. I would like Marty to be the leader but am not sure if he wants the job.
    3. Build a legal team and stockpile some reserves. (I like the transparancy idea)
    4. Decide how the new group will operate.

    I would say that we are a very loose group now and are doing pretty good.

    Another view is that we gradiently get those in the church to just agree that it is ok to look at ALL the data and get them to reject what is going on inside the church and then you would have almost instant reformation. This might be the easiest way. IMHO.


  349. Tony DePhillips

    Hi Plain OldThetan,

    Did she go over any of the internet data with him or the Truth Rundown? Is he willing to look? I don’t see how she could let him continue without at least giving it a try.

  350. Mike Hobson


    To the best of my knowledge, there have been no public statements uttered by Marty Rathbun about you at all, let alone any that denigrate you in some way.

    Did you see these statements yourself ?

    If so, please provide exact citations of some examples.

    If you did not see them yourself, then I submit you may have become the unwitting victim of one of OSA’s Black Propaganda campaigns that are being run to try and keep Co$’s various opponents at each other’s proverbial throats.

    Michael A. Hobson

  351. Pierre and Marty, I respect both of you and what you’ve done and are doing, a whole lot. I hope you two work this out as you’re on the same side. I think you two should do a 3p invest.

  352. martyrathbun09

    Yes, soon.

  353. My pleasure!

  354. Thought Provoking


    There you go playing that piano again.

    Thanks for the history lesson. I learned something new.

  355. Sam, Whatever pleases you just tickles me
    plumb to death.

  356. Concerned Citizen


    You mean I was not the only one with that computation? Wow, thank goodness for auditing hu?

  357. Concerned Citizen

    HI Louise,

    Not sure you are the same person I have in mind, but if you are (I suspect you are.) We corssed paths, though you met me at my lowest point, you were always so theta and saw me as being. I never forgot that.

    So glad you are here now.

  358. We are doing just fine as-is without any centralized organization of any kind. I prefer to keep it that way, as it gives DM no target to come after, infiltrate and destroy.

    I agree, but as the Indie Movement grows, its gonna get so targeted sooner or later anyways.

    Anyone can have professional Envelopes & Promos printed up with no valid return address from a legally non-existent entity such as the “International Independent Scientology Association” and throw them into a mailbox. No consensus required, and Dave’d be chasing ghosts.

    One may however have to wrestle with ethical consideration whether DM’s CF is “Fair Game” or not. Not trying to rock any boats here, just a few ideas tossed out there …

    I think that we are de-PTSing ourselves as individuals right now and as an organization we need to be very organized before we make any BIG moves. I think that a legal team needs to be organized first to be ready for the church’s attack that will surely come once any tangible structure is put into place.

    Hi Tony.

    Just for clarification, I never suggested otherwise.

    ( by the way are you coming out?)

    I’m scared of long needles … lol
    I have little choice in the matter for the time being. To do so at this time would obstruct another handling which could have dire consequences.

    3. Build a legal team

    Just a few more of my 2 undervalued cents … it might be best not to do that.
    Do it without any entity which can be hit.

    LRH operated on the high seas for years to avoid being a target, although this might not be the best analogy.



  359. Concerned Citizen


    Just amazing, the facts spek for themselves. I have long held that religion is coveted by SPs due to the enourmous influence it woields.

    This post truly did resonate with me. Thank you again

  360. Nobody asked me, but Goddess, when I see you speaking to Another Layer like that, I know how YOU’RE being treated.

    Whether you are indeed an OT by someone’s definition, or whether you’re sitting in an OSA computer room, you have told me a lot by your choice of words, tone level and manners (lack thereof).

    That was a completely inappropriate response
    to the poster you just “flamed.”

  361. Pierre. I would like to read more from you here if it matters.

    It might help if you gave specifics regarding your complaint. I havent read everything on this site but I dont recall Marty calling you names. I think he said something about some of the Class XII’s being a bit off the rails. It seems like you agree on that point.

    Maybe there has been a misunderstanding or “third party”?

  362. It wouldn’t be the Independent movement starting an org, it would be an offshoot. You can have a “lateral organization” and still have offshoots from that who go on full on attack with an org, you still preserve the central movement. Just don’t have the key top people become involved in the org.That’s the beauty of it. If we can’t start an org then what’s to be done? Washington was fabian but at some point he had to cross the Delaware, but I’m not even talking about that because Washington would have a whole separate expendable corps in this case. The advantages of an org. The org would have a qual with a certification function of course:
    1. Not only delivery but auditors are being trained in volume.
    2. People dare to speak up inside the church against problems because they have a fallback option.
    3. It’ll be promoted broadly and Miscavige will be cornered into practicing real tech and admin or face questioning. He’ll be forced to start making auditors.
    4. Lots more.

  363. How about a hat writeup? Something to guide you through.

    Also, enlightenment information compiled into one list of links, docs or files, or on a DVD.

  364. New Zealand

  365. NASA took less than ten years from JFK’s famous speech to land men on the Moon and safely return them. The margin for error was zero or the crew would have died.

    It cannot possibly take more time and effort to finish OT VII than the Apollo program did, and yet, incredibly, this is the reality in Miscavigology. How can somebody be in his mid his 18th year on OTVII?

    DM is slamming people against a brick wall called OT VII. DM wants to ensure that everyone in CoS remains a powerless Miss Pattycake that will keep sending him money for goofy, absurd objects like the 67 bronze statues in the Super Power Implant Station.

    Marty: Come hell or highwater keep your blog going! Your blog is a tremendous asset. I have sent more than a few CoS members here. They have called me back and said that their doubts were confirmed: CoS really has come off the rails. These are all good people who give CoS the benefit of the doubt and tend to blame themselves for lack of Bridge progress. They really try. However, when you are playing a rigged game you will never win. CoS is like a rigged casino where the dice always come up snake eyes. And then there are people like Pam Lancaster at CC Int or the regges at Flag whose job is to paint pictures of pretty blue sky to keep disaffected people hoping that someday, if they are worthy enough, they will be OT.

    My experience is that no one becomes a true OT until they leave CoS. IMO, the only way to turn Miss Pattycake into a tiger is to have her leave CoS as soon possible. The way is out is through… the nearest door!


  366. That was very beautifully stated Concerned Citizen. I agree with everything you say and love the way you handled it without being “rude”. Thank you.

  367. Just a thought-
    I feel like if there was any type of organization, even if the meat of it was just Marty, Mike and a couple others, that I would be in non-e.

    Marty and others by reason of KRC are in position to know what needs to be done more than I.

    Maybe a concise statement on some things that are needed?

    I feel that “coming out” is probably on the list, and I need to figure out that one. I fear the consequences. Has anyone ever worked with a good EO or someone helped you sort of some messy PTS or other problem? Thats what this feels like to me.

    Maybe theres an good EO or somebody who could put together a little list of references or something to get people over that mountain.

    I know there are a lot of people just reading who dont even post anything out of fear (me a month or so ago) . A good writeup of references or some compilation of materials (interviews, videos, evidence, etc) could possibly get hundreds or thousands more from effect into action.

    There’s things I could be doing. I can make dvd’s/cd’s. I have computer audio and video capability. I can do original music, background music etc.

    Just throwing stuff out there……

  368. @Jim Logan and Jan

    I second that. I loved the running program. It was also one of the most difficult case actions I’ve done, and not just because of the physical effort require, it was also overcoming a tremendous amount of internal counter intention the action stirred up. It was a good action for me to do at that particular time. When I did the running program, the case that went away, its “flavor” if you will, I’ve never tasted since.

  369. Concerned Citizen

    Miscavige being as slimy as he is, has the church opertaing on a lot of verbal orders and briefings. There isn’t a sinlgle thing in writing that I have seen, just like they wont issue SP declares.

    LRH said if it isn’t written it isn’t true. But using the justification that “SPs” will use it against us if we write it, they have pretty much cancelled teh issue on if not writen not true.

  370. Hi Tony, I will be happy to add your names. My small hiatus is nearly over. I’d like to brief everyone on my activities, but LRH said when dealing with an enemy, always maintain tight security on your operations and plans.

    The long and short of it is that everything I am doing right now makes it possible for me to be be here and be more effective in the coming months.

    As we all know, the basic action of theta is to reach and withdraw. Essentially, our forward progress has taken everything to the next level, necessitating some reorganization here at home to make possible the next spate of handlings.

    But Lord, we have been successful so far. As Winston Churchill said, “A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.”

  371. Concerned Citizen

    From my position, the best thing to do is to keep pushing for teh KRs to be written, and not to inval someone who is winning, even if the win is 1000th of what they should be getting.

    When they on their own recieve the treatment you get when you ask questions, point out violations, there is more of a need of change.

    Also, no make wrong, Some one I know whom I got to see what is what, proceeded to invalidate and condemn someone else we both cared about.

    That terminal was starting to look for options, but after being invaled and made wrong, changed hhis mind and closed his eyes once more.

    So I agree, we must be more understanding of their posotion, looking at how we once were in that same view point. Demanding someone duplicate your current awarness out of nowwhere just breaths trouble. Somehow I managed to stay under the radar even after that blow up, but it is a risk. As long as I have the comm lines I will keep working on getting people to see, because hey are worth my time and effort. But it is not my life’s work, and sooner than later I will be out and many will disconnectt. I have come to terms with that and I think that the more theta and understanding we create here, the more we make it safe for them to look, the more we understand them and not make them wrong, the better results we will get.

    There are some SPs in the mix, but most people in are truly bright honest beings.

  372. Michael,
    Duh, of course! Hundreds of hours of objectives!

  373. Nice quote! LOve it.

  374. Concerned Citizen

    There is an LRH FO that states every exec is expected to do full OEC FEBC, Class VIII and Data series. These are not requirementrs for posting, but they are a very desireable goal.

  375. Concerned Citizen

    “Someone (I forgot who) said a being is only as valuable as he can serve others” This was LRH

  376. FPRD research began in early 1984. The Cine Org in Gold had been a mess for years. LRH had not paid it much attention throughout 1983. I was the Director in Cine from 1983 to 1984 and as a unit we were sort of ignored and left to drift under my too laid back direction. At the beginning of 1984 LRH sent down treatments for the 50 Public Scientology Motion Picture Series (PSMPS) films. These were different from the Tech Films in that these could be shown to anybody whereas Tech Films were only Academy students.

    Anyway, the first PSMPS film was “What Happened to These Civilizations?” and it is the story of a bunch of academics are at a conference arguing about the demise of civilizations and what caused their decline. Then a guest at the conference shows then DMSMH and explains how Dianetics is the solution for civilization’s ills and all the professors cognite and that’s the story.

    I turned LRH’s two page treatment into a screenplay and submitted it to LRH and he approved it (saying that I should be commended for the job, a commendation that never came! Just kidding here.)

    At any rate, LRH wanted to start shooting the film once the script was okayed and so in typical Int fashion all the base execs felt they had to meddle in the production to show how with the program they were and the entire base exec structure descended on the Cine studio to demand that shooting begin right away to that daily rushes (shot on video) could be sent to LRH for his review. Normal people would work during the day and sleep at night. But not the gung-ho Sea Org members of the Int Base, LRH’s Base. No siree! We would keep the actors up all freaking night shooting various scenes of the movie and send the shots up the LRH in the next traffic run.

    Of course the shots were abysmally rejected. In the spirit of full disclosure, I freely admit that I was the worst director in the history of the Cine org. LRH was fairly kind in his rejects and we’d gear up and try again. This went on for the better part of a month, as I recall, when LRH had a blinding bognition that the Cine crew did not have a clue what they were doing. All departments: directing, camera, sound, makeup, steps, props, talent, you name it, we couldn’t do it.

    So, he shut down the Cine org and put us onto full time study and hatting. And as part of this he began researching the case factors that might be causing some of the difficulties.

    My own case was pretty snarled at the time and LRH received a report from Ray Mithoff as Snr C/S Int about it. LRH wrote back that one of the reasons a case could get stalled at upper levels was evil purposes and he laid out the handling which is pretty much the FPRD as we have it today. I was one of the first to go in on the rundown along with Nick Cancilla, a sound guy, and a couple of the other key players in Cine.

    LRH wrote a lot about the rundown, evil purposes and confusions and in one despatch gave the basic evil pupose of psychs, implanets, etc., which was to rid the universe of all life.

    By June, the rundown had been piloted and released to tremendous fanfare and fabulous wins on cases.

    Anyway, that’s the origins of FPRD.

  377. crashingupwards

    Hey Pierre. Whatever issue Marty may have with you , I have to say you should re-read your post and if it isnt obvious how self-important you present yourself, then you may be technically fluent but otherwise I find your self praise insufferable. You come across as boasting and smug.
    Other than that, if your actually helping people, good for you. Well done. Keep it up and don’t get lost in the mirror.

  378. Concerned Citizen

    Hello Pierre,

    I remember you fondly from the days when you were auditing at the Sand Castle. You helped me understand so much!!!

    I have as much reverence and respect for Marty as I have for you. I strongly suspect there is a third party, and I smell an OSA rat. For the indies
    both of you are very important beings and I really don’t see Marty making any such statements, certainly not behind your back.

    Can’t we gentleman apply some Scientology and get along? I know you both are big enough beings to do just that. And that would be our gain and DMs loss.

    I was inspired by your love of Rolls Royce and I love that car too. Every time I see one I think of the ones you had. You had real class Pierre, and I really have very fond memories of you.

    If you were to post more, I would really love it, when you and Marty do spot the third party that must exist to create this upset

  379. Cured Robot

    Gotta love you for that, life is illustrious in all its wonder. I take a step back on a regular basis and view it and its very calming from the noise , glad your are enjoying these most simple things, keeps it in perspective and is very exteriorizing.

  380. “Don’t EVER tell me what to do.” Jeeez Goddess, you sound like my mother.

  381. Exactly my thought. OSA would love to get two of the top Indie tech people ripping each other apart, and on this blog too, as an added bonus. C’mon guys, we’re on the same side here. Work it out, stay up all night if you have to, like husbands and wives do sometimes. FOT, Chapter on ARC applies. Sounds too simple but it works.

  382. Louise, you ROCK girl. Thanks for joining your true friends.
    Love to read your truth.

  383. Hello Pierre,
    Thanks for teaching Trey Lotz to audit the L’s.
    Me, my wife,& my ED and friend Yin are having great wins.
    Now, personally I welcome the fact that we can all choose AND fire any auditor or C/S we want .
    We are free. aren’t we?
    Ron wanted as to be free without ANY amendments.
    Please keep posting, – and I hope you put some tech on it and some wins form your PC’s and some suggestions on how to handle life in general (prosper and flourish ) using some simple tech matters.
    We need you -and so does Marty – does not matter whether he agrees.
    But also realize (I know you know) that some of the Pc’s you are able to help are lining up at your door because of Marty’s blog. This blog does spared the awareness that the church is screwed up and thus people are leaving and can then get the real stuff from you, trey and many others.
    This does make me want to make a comment:
    I would love to see people commenting on this blog talk more about their own action they take NOW on the bridge, – training and auditing.
    Get some wins going every so often – will you please? All of you on this blog!!
    Trey, Criss, you Pierre, and all the others who I am sure (or surly hope) are doing great things with the tech in itself and or using it in life !!
    Just a thought 🙂

    Love Helmut

  384. Tony DePhillips

    Good ethics handling.

  385. I too am disheartened by this ARCX amongst the upper technical ranks of the Independents.

    Marty, I’ve been reading your blog daily for months. I respect you deeply, but ask you to please work with Pierre to repair this ARCX.

    Pierre, we’ve met, you’ve audited me. You are very intelligent and a very skilled auditor. I ask you also to work with Marty to repair the ARCX.

    Please, to both of you, setaside the rush to judgement of each other, and grant each other some beingness. You both are wonderful beings and we need you guys to be in ARC, if we hope to truly succeed as Independent Scientologists.


    IAS “regges”.

    Freewinds “regges”

    Do you know what a registrar is and does?

    Look it up in any dictionary and the admin dictionary.

    What DONATIONS beggar is signing anyone up for any service or enrolling someone for anything?

    Huh? Yoo hoo!!!!!!

    These are professional beggars, donations beggars. And they are sent out to beg. Yoo hoo!

    They are NOT registrars.

    Yoo hoo! Hellloooooo…..

    The Church has a crew of professional beggars.

    They are called registrars and everyone goes…”oh yeah. he’s a reg for the I.A.S……”

    NO. Nobody in the IAS enrolls anybody for anything.

    And I think Hubbard would be less than amused at the crew of beggars DM has assembled…as if they even belong somewhere on the Org Board.

    Have you EVER seen a beggar full hat?

    Have you ever seen a beggar hat write up?


  387. Tom,

    Just wanted to let you know that the issue of the “old” versus the “new” OT levels, the deliberate omission of the “old” OT levels, and the belief that it is the so called “old” OT levels that are the “real” OT levels, or at least contain the material that will make “real” OTs, has been much discussed outside the official Church of Scientology for years. Indeed, I recall seeing material on this in the old ARS (the usenet newsgroup alt.religion.scientology) days in the mid-90s, if I’m not mistaken. I’m sure there is much material on this on the web.

    I’ve also seen speculation that eventually the “old” OT levels (OT IV, V, VI, VII) will eventually be “plugged in” or reintroduced as OT IX, OTX, OTXI, and OTXII in the future. [Though your earlier post about how OTVIII was essentially cut in half makes me think the “plug in,” if any, of “old” OT IV, V, VI and VII will then be to new OTX, OTXI, OTXII, and OTXIII.]

    I’ve seen various explanations for this over the years. The most benign is that the old levels were too tough, too steep, and that the new levels were brought in as undercuts to decrease the gradient. Your prior post supports the theory of pure greed — i.e., create more OT levels to make more money. I’ve also seen speculation that DM was deliberately creating overt products.

    Like I said, I wanted you to know that there is material on this issue out there.

    — Kha Khan

  388. Any OT8 who does is not only forfeiting their status but getting a new one befitting them. “New Sheep Oblivious”

  389. TheEmperorIsNaked

    Hi. What a resume. My God. And I like what I have read on your site. Nice to have you here too. I’ve not read anything from Marty or anyone else that is a degrade of you.

    I agree with Boyd and others above who suggest a 3rd party in action here. I sure think that is what two impressive thetans such as yourselves would do in this situation.

    Need any help?

  390. Please Marty can you email Lousqueezius, Louise Cronin’s email address to me. She has indicated here that you have it and that she would like to get in comm with my daughter who was a good friend of hers when they were both young girls. Thank you

  391. WH,

    I too am pretty sure LRH didn’t make DM the head of RTC – there doesn’t seem to be any evidence of it at all.

    But I wasn’t making a statement of fact – it’s a lead-in to saying “Alternatively, that’s the line they have been fed.”

    In this context, it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not – parishioners by and large believe it, and that’s the important point here.

  392. Tom,

    Your disclosure about DM cutting OT8 is half is very important. I have been contacted by an ex-COM OT8 on another board who suffered harm and unpleasant reactions from OT8 for a long time and spent “a fortune” trying to remedy them. He is very appreciative of your revelation, and would also very much appreciate any additional information you can provide.

    My impression is that the information you provided has been very healing for him and that any additional information you can provide would be very important.

    Thank you.

    — Kha Khan

  393. Lucy is right.

    With just an IP address the only thing you know for sure is which ISP is being used. To get down to a username, somebody has to search logs – a thankless task and one that ISP’s are not required to do.

    I know this because my job is maintaining those logs 🙂

    We refuse to disclose that info to anyone who asks. Amongst other things, it violates our contract with the customer. There are other technical reasons why tying an IP address to a person is a murky process.

    So you really do have little to fear from an IP address being known.

  394. Woo hoo! Way to go, Louise.

  395. And do you know, can you figure out why these “begging crews” are wrong?

    They are saying they cannot survive selling and delivering Scientology auditing and processing, It’s a covert degrade.

    And these begging crews are used to cover a hole. Because they were mocked up after the mission network was wiped out. And the flow of public onto the bridge was cut off.

    And these begging crews are covering a huge hole of contraction.

    Sure, maybe he can a buy a ship and few pieces of property. But it was not bought with selling and delivering Scientology services. And that is what is so insidious about this scam.

  396. NOTSAWARE, I totally agree that it is inappropriate for one to voice an opinion based on no experience, but it’s incorrect to assume that I have no experience with the tech. I’m no OT8, but nor am I one of those people who simply read the Xenu story and decided Scientologists were a bunch of nut cases. Please understand that I can’t always back up what I say here for the simple reason that it sometimes goes beyond what Marty considers acceptable for this blog. I disagree with Marty’s decision to censor some comments, but I recognize that this is his blog and he has every right to make those decisions. The fact that Marty does let some of my comments through, rather than blocking me entirely, is one of the reasons I respect him. My point is, there is a limit to what I can say here, but my beliefs are not unfounded.

    Concerned: First, let me say that my intention is not to be rude or to hurt people’s feelings, and if that’s what I did to you, then please accept my apologies. I know most people here know my viewpoint; In this case, I said what I said because I felt it was the best way to answer Jim’s comment.

    For the record, I don’t think you are delusional. In my experience, most Scientologists are intelligent, well-intentioned, and very likable. In fact, that’s a big part of why I feel the way I do about LRH and Scientology. I also feel that there is a fine line between being respectful of alternative viewpoints and being reasonable (LRH definition). I try to stay within Marty’s bounds, but I can no more be reasonable about my beliefs on LRH than you could about your beliefs on DM.

    One last thought: If making a point once or twice was enough, wouldn’t Marty have stopped blogging months ago? 🙂

    Thanks for listening and Marty, thanks for letting me be heard.


  397. Theo Sismanides

    Pierre & Marty,

    At this point of time with DM having destroyed all of our, your and everybody’s dreams, having destroyed the only hope right now for Mankind to change its destiny, we do not have the luxury to act in any other way but that of Inclusion.

    Each one of us is ssooo valuable especially those on the top of this movement.

    I am impressed by Pierre’s stats. I am impressed by Marty’s stats. Those are on different parts of the Tech. Both of you are wearing the Boots in the Sky.

    I don’t know if I am listened and read by you on this but I know that I am in agreement with all the rest here in what I am writing. Why? Because they all expect us to not make the same things DM did and does right now.

    Marty, you were talking about checks and balances. Now it’s the time. We don’t want to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    Maybe a terminal here will take it up and do a 3rd party investigation for you.

    This is a test for the Independents. The time has come to THINK BIG, ACT BIG AND COLLECT BIG.

    Pierre should be validated for his high production no matter what his case is right now, and Marty should not be made wrong for things he hasn’t said as far as I know especially when he has created such a tide in the Independents.

    There is so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that it ill behooves to any of us (I don’t remember the whole thing) to speak badly for one another. Let’s apply and let’s get together.

    Cat Daddy said it right. Let’s be together.

    So t

  398. On DM’s grade chart, no process has eepeed until DM says so or until the peesee goes bankrupt or until the peesee is declared espee, whatever comes first. DM can change the rules anytime he wants to. DM IS Scientology. Anyone who disagrees with that is an evil espee.


  399. Cat Daddy
    Been looking for the right moment to post that video for some time. This time you beat me to it 🙂
    Thanks – I love this song.

  400. Michael,

    very much so. No further comment needed except: Exactly my thoughts.

  401. Mockingbird,

    Hello. I know we’ve been back and forth a couple of times on the coming out issue.

    Not to invalidate what you are saying (I have some wonderful friends who run covert operations within the church) my viewpoint is that remaining anonymous somewhat actually plays into OSA’s hands. With the use of plants you can’t really be sure who to trust and not to trust until someone has been through the ‘Indie wall of fire’ and stood up in public defiance (witness the recent fiasco of Andy Hutton who apparently was posing as an Indie who had to stay under the radar). I can’t be arsed to get into the OSA games conditions. I would rather just know who my group is and who I can trust and to hell with anyone else – it’s easier.

    As for being fabian… well it’s good up to a point but LRH died while being fabian and the church was thrown into chaos and taken over by a despot. He also remained fabian when it was unecessary because that’s where DM wanted him to be. Factually there came a point where ‘fabian’ became ‘hiding’. With all due respect (and all the love in the world) to LRH I’m not sure he played that one to well.

    Just saying – please don’t think I don’t totally get what you’re saying and respect your viewpoint. Mine is just different and I think we get the job done faster if we all openly stand together.

    This also has the effect that strong beings who can confront doing this will help pull out those who are PTS and staying quiet out of fear (you have no idea how much Mary Jo’s coming out gave me confidence and security and I’m not easily scared).

    On a final point if we really are following what LRH would do then step 8 of the Doubt formula is pretty clear.

    That being said, taking a side while remaining anonymous and contributing sanity and strength to the group is admirable in itself so please don’t think I am dissing you – thanks for all you do and say though while remaining completely fabian 🙂

    All my love,

  402. for every single person who is hiding under the radar, if every single one of them stood up and said ‘NO!’ the church would be shaking in their boots and would be powerless. By hiding and being under the radar, they are giving the church power because the church knows they can continue to bully and control others. So continuing to stay under the radar is contributing to hurting others.

  403. Time to rise people! You have that right!!

  404. Eating better will benefit everybody along with spiritual well being.

    The connection mind body is a spiritual thing. One could say it’s in every cell that you can find life and communication.

    This makes the body not just MEST

    The funny thing is it is very personal. It need not be Scientology persé but something that the individual connect with. What has meaning and gives purpose for that particular person.

    If you do not taker care of your body your mind goes tooand if you don’ take care of your mind your body goes too.


  405. The term Kool-aid drinker comes from the Jonestown incident as this was what these people supposedly drank, killing themselves, 900 or so people. There’s a need for taste also in humor, I think. I love it when humor becomes an art.

    But you may be right, Tony, I tend to get a little serious when I feel that friends of mine are made fun of. I understand the need for having this forum free and unserious, I really do.

  406. I believe that this is the the heart of the matter: lower bridge public see OT8s leaving the Church and this puts them into doubt on the whole bridge. DM’s solution is to invalidate and discredit the OT8s to lessen their value as opinion leaders and examples of what to expect by going up the bridge. When a lower bridge public leaves in protest, its “he’s restimulated” and that is why he left. When an OT8 leaves, this is an individual who has attested to end of case i.e. no more bank and so it has huge impact to people on the lower levels.

    As well, the biggest problem for DM is that if any semblance of the EP of OT8 has been achieved, then this is a being that is nearly impossible to control other than with his/her agreement. Dumping them back into bank agreement by overrun probably works fine to do that.

    And the OT8s? They don’t want to harm others or make it impossible for them to do the bridge so they go along with it “for the greater good” and besides, they know all too well just what their own inadequacies are and are willing to go along with the idea that something was out on their earlier auditing.

    Add to that lots more dollars in the shop and it is a horrible can of worms.

  407. Tom,

    Thank you for getting off that W/H. I have very little reality of my own about the effects of OT VIII as currently delivered, but there’s some here who do. By all accounts, it’s pretty damn devastating.

    It took balls (big ones) to make that post, and for that I salute you.

    I really don’t know what else to say….

    Oh wait, there is one more thing. With the original release of OTVIII, a public in my local org signed up and received the level. I won’t mention the person’s name out of respect for their position, but it is someone I knew reasonably well. Within three months of their return, this person was at death’s door with some wildly serious illness and it took a trip back to the ship to sort it out. At the time I thought it really weird that a new OTVIII would get so ill so quick. I guess now we know.

    The word on the street at the time was that this wasn’t the only case. It was spun to imply that the OT themselves were at fault – out-ethics or some such – and out-tech as a true cause never entered the picture.

  408. Lady Minn,

    I worked under Jeff Walker in RTRC from 1987 – 89 when he was Snr C/S Int. Can’t say I have much good to say about his management style as a senior. He was mean and invalidative and nearly always in a really bad mood. He blew in 1989, was recovered, did the RPF, if I recall correctly and wound up auditing in Gold. I had the misfortune of getting him as an auditor and while he was technically correct in all the actions he took in session, I found one small thing missing in his sessions — ARC. By comparison, there was another little auditor named Leonora Adam who was not as procedurally precise but you just loved her because she was a glowing ball of ARC in and out of session. No question what is more important as an auditor.

    At any rate, Jeff wound up working in the Grounds area of Gold and blew sometime in the early 90s and returned to the base escorted by the Sherriff for his mest and was never heard from again that I know of.

    His wife Sue worked in RTRC for awhile and was, quite frankly, not a good compiler. I believe she is still at Gold.

  409. MostlyLurker

    Marty and Pierre please show me that you can assume other people’s point of view, that you can grant beigness and that “communication IS the universal solvent”.

    I can’t think a positive result by you bickering.

  410. Nightmares Getting Less

    Actually NOTS (Ned for OTs) was released in Sept 1978, not 79.

  411. Since OT VIIIs are at least trained as solo auditors, they should be able to run objectives on each other, totally free. And for a blanket C/S, you really don’t need a C/S do you? I also think everyone has the right to pay for auditing, and along with that comes the right to hire or fire your auditor or C/S at will.

  412. Pierre,
    Thank you for your work to handle the BPC of those experiencing DM’s suppressive alteration of Scientology tech.

    I can imagine the dismay at what you are finding that is going on on those tech lines. It fairly makes my blood boil to hear of them here, let alone witness the steady stream of out-tech and perversion of LRH’s body of work landing on your, and Marty’s, and many other’s now, doorsteps.

    These blogs are a somewhat ‘sensitive’ medium of communication. That is, they can be very poor substitutes for live comm. The nuances of live comm, even intention, can be mistaken and the truism ‘more comm not less, is the answer’ is very applicable. Sometimes that sorting out of what is appearing in words on a blog, is better handled in private messaging. Vous comprenez, bien sur, c’est ca. ( Excuse moi, je suis Henglish, and I’m making an effort here, tabernacle!)

    You have demonstrated to me, and many I know that it is not a question of Certificates, that distinguishes an auditor and their skill, but a duplication, understanding, and thus judgment and competence in the tools and their proper application.

    I have no doubt myself on how to assess that competence; I view the results. I also apply CS Series 84 in Cramming, to the end of ‘flubless’.

    You are a Class XII, “listened to by others with a hush’. As a CS as well, with considerable altitude, you have CS Series 61, The Three Golden Rules of the CS, in your hat pack.

    I have earned my certs as a Cramming Officer, on Flag, trained by those trained by LRH as well, in my field, and per CS Series 84, I’m recommending an Instruct to you. Since you are trained and have earned your certs, you will be familiar with CS Series 57, point 13:
    “Invalidation kills auditors. So don’t chew on them any harder than is necessary to get the job done.
    “Get “To Cramming” to mean, “normal procedure even for Class XIIs” .”

    If I’m not getting across due to the limits of this medium, you have my email address.

  413. Mockingbird6

    Hi Sam,
    I appreciate your comments. Believe me, I am amidst a storm of controversy among a large group of indies over this same question of whether to declare or not. None of us demands an answer from any other that is not their OWN answer.

    As time progresses and the church does more of its stupidity, it becomes more and more likely that we will declare, because they keep taking away the only things we have to lose, with 3P to relatives, etc. Once those people have decided we’re too rebellious, many of us will say, WTF and shake off the last binding cords.

    I appreciate it that you will not be too harsh on us for what you perceive to be our shortcomings–I understand your viewpoint and I will try not to be too harsh on you for that. ML, M6

  414. Another Layer,

    Yeah! That’s what I want to hear! You at Cause! I love it!

    I don’t know if I am courageous or not, I really don’t, but dang, I want all of this handled and people doing well.

  415. Lunamoth,

    I got it Luna. It’s cool. Be sure to read my other posts – or not – if you want more data on me. Either way, it’s all good.


    LOL. Didn’t mean to sound like that.

  416. Actually we never went to the moon and that’s a fact Jack. See “Astronots gone wild”, and “a funny thing happened on the way to the moon”. Also Kubrik’s The Shining, an analysis.
    “Space may be the final frontier
    But it’s made in a Hollywood basement”

  417. Shane and Chrissie,
    DON’T feed the foxes, or racoons or various critters or they will move in. By ‘move in’ I mean MOVE IN, they’ll be sitting at the kitchen table, going through the pantry, pooping on the floor (they are critters after all) and soon, they’ll find your bed and sleep in it, alone.

    Foxes eat rabbits and hares. They do well when they do. The rabbits, well, not so much so every now and then a cycle occurs; less rabbits, less foxes. Less foxes, more rabbits. More rabbits, more foxes and then less rabbits again.

  418. LOL! Joe, thanks for being one EVIL SoB!

    If not for you eh? I “made it go right” as a staff member to get my FPRD basic form (to maintain my exec quals) and had the hugest win EVER after doing it. (Ext from the Phys U with major perception!) So thanks! If it hadn’t been for you….

    And also, I note from your story that LRH, when he discovered that people had no clue, PUT THEIR HATS ON! He didn’t degrade them….and he took the opportunity to bring forth some new tech. That is cool.

    Really, thanks!

  419. Willful ignorance against realism discussed:


    Social control = “It’s all in your attitude.”

  420. Tony DePhillips

    Wow!! Oracle! That is a great cog.

    I agree they are not registrars. That is using a wrong post title for what they are doing. It is used to hide the obvious.

    That was a very lucid thought you had, thanks.


  421. Thanks for the background info, Joe! I didn’t know you were in Cine as I was away & replaced Sarge as rover.

    Nick is “voice of Golden Era Productions” and introduces audio lectures for those who don’t know him.

  422. To the wrongs that need resistance,
    To the right that needs assistance,
    To the future in the distance,
    Give yourselves.

    – Carrie Chapman Catt

  423. Danny,
    Aside from the marvelous narrative (!), and the fact that the FPRD, as done according to the LRH materials and not this goofus, ‘instant FN’, ‘no FN’, ‘prior read’, SP bullshit perversion of David Miscavige, there, in the last part of your post is something that is oh, so apropos and revealing.

    “LRH wrote a lot about the rundown, evil purposes and confusions and in one despatch gave the basic evil pupose of psychs, implanets, etc., which was to rid the universe of all life.”

    Makes me think of Idle Orgs, machine/video games as Div 6, and robots auditing robots.

    DM’s valence fits the picture of the ‘pscych’. His products in that valence are the picture of a universe with no life. No wonder he’s sabotaged the key to releasing others; the definition of ‘instant read’ and ‘FN’.

    Not on my watch Dave. Not then, not now, not ever.

  424. Oops, couple of missing commas, a phrase or two and some typos in that. I hope the intention overrides the medium.

  425. Tony DePhillips

    That is a true to me also Chrissie.

    People that are hiding are really still the effect of the suppression and keep them going. To disconnect actually pulls the plug on their energy source because they are theta suckers.

    I know it is not pleasant to consider what might happen when you stand up and be counted. But from my experience it was very liberating.


  426. Sargio,

    You were Mr Fabian supreme in that period Sam referred to.

  427. Please, not another organization. Organize, YES! Organization, NO! Free thought, YES! Policy’d (policed) thought, NO!

    We are free, the tech is now free. Let’s keep it so.

  428. Funny but not far off from the truth!

  429. There is a black squirrel (yes an animal not a person)that lives around DC Org.

  430. M6
    I’m not judging you – just sharing my viewpoint in response to yours. I respect you no-less and I know that the church will come down on you and your friends/family like a hammer if you do speak up so I understand that no-one in their right mind would want to subject themselves to that!
    Be as harsh on me as you like – I can be a bit out-spoken sometimes, and opinionated.
    I love that we can at least communicate openly and even have a good slagging match if we so choose.
    However if you don’t change your ways very soon and do it our way, we’re all going to disconnect from you and tell your friends to take you off facebook. LOL.

  431. M6
    I’m not judging you – just sharing my viewpoint in response to yours. I respect you no-less and I know that the church will come down on you and your friends/family like a hammer if you do speak up so I understand that no-one in their right mind would want to subject themselves to that!
    Be as harsh on me as you like – I can be a bit out-spoken sometimes, and opinionated.
    I love that we can at least communicate openly and even have a good slagging match if we so choose.
    However if you don’t change your ways very soon and do it our way, we’re all going to disconnect from you and tell your friends to take you off facebook. LOL.

    (Marty that message was from Sam – Oops please send instead of the one that says Chrissie on it).

  432. It makes me happy and smile.

  433. Thank you so much Virgil Samms /Tom for exposing this fraud. It will indicate for many old OT VIII completions, especially those who were deceived into doing New OT VIII.

  434. I await your answer.

  435. Jim is correct and is MOQ in my book.

    Had a neighbor who fed squirrels in the neighborhood regularly, like feeding their dog. In the city there are no natural predators to those critters. Though cute, they became pests to me as they dug up my garden, potted plants and outdoor orchids to preserve their nuts.

    Ended up trapping them in a wire cage and taking them out to release them in a big public park which had natural predators – all 152 of those critters in the space of a couple of years from my back yard – Westside of LA at the time.

  436. The DM creed: “Smile or Die.”

  437. “Cog” and “Lucid thought” was very generous Tony.

    Let’s just say I know a beggar when I see one.

  438. Chrissie,

    What you say is true, but we also shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that each one of those people need to do it on their own determinism.

    People are PTS, they cannot be de-PTS’ed using any other method than letting them cognite and letting them do it. We should help these folks as much as we can, as we have the REAL Ethics tech. Most of them will just need some reassurance that coming out is OK and nowhere near as scary as it looks. Some others do need to work out a proper BP first.

    But all of this is just normal straightforward Ethics tech, and we can’t rush that process to go any faster than it will go.

    So yes, the best course of action is for those who disagree with CofS to stand up and say so; but on their own determinism.

    Personally I think now is a good time to start asking folks “How can we help you?”. I’m willing to lend a hand, I’m based in Joburg.

  439. Not that I mean to imply begging is a dishonorable profession. It is honest and even holy to ask people to willingly contribute spare change.

    But to mask it into something like “registrar” to imply the beggar is something else, and to use it as a way to mask illusion, that is doing beggars a dishonor.

  440. Theo Sismanides

    Very wisely said, Helmut and unbiased! The higher one gets the more responsibility he/she has to take.

    For example I didn’t know Pierre trained Trey to audit the L’s. On the other hand you are right, Marty’s blog with the tide it creates within the Scientologists does have a huge effect on the field.

    We have a balance here and a formula that works. We should ALL (and I mean it) be very careful in the fullest sense of the word with what is going on at the top of this movement.

    Pierre it’s now up to you. I don’t think Marty or anybody here would be crazy enough to start shooting at Class XIIs and especially you with such stats.

    Thank you for informing us on your stats which are impressive. But please, Pierre, bear in mind as Helmut says that we too here with Marty heading this movement have changed the face of the Freezone, have put actual Scientology on the media with Marty, Mike Rinder, Jeff, Steve etc.

    Let’s move on guys! If Pierre can train people on the Ls, my God… this is too much now, we are so close now… Inclusion is the word. And we don’t want anyone to exlcude himself/herself just because of dreamed up things. There is no excuse now for any dramatization of any kind.

  441. Well said. I am through ot3 and frequently give myself a locational to sober up.

    It works fine for me.

  442. Sinar, Fabian is correct. Had to be. Beleive it
    or not I had one hell of a good time, most of the
    time. I was very good at it and was never afraid.
    When I had to be Joe Carpenter everyone was
    convinced I was. When I had to be Sarge I did
    that too. I did have some moments but just
    flashed my killer grin and breezed thru them.
    I’m very proud of what I was able to do. I had
    to be very OT and I was! Couldn’t have done
    it if not for LRH.

  443. To mock it up as a necessary position on the Org Board in a Scientology Organization, where training and processing can be exchanged as a valuable commodity , is plain evil.

    It’s the same as saying, “We do not have a valuable exchange and need to rely on charity.”

    A serious degrade of Dianetics and Scientology.

  444. Form follows function

  445. Make people angry at the world and you can sell them anything at any prize.

  446. Sinar,

    When I was at Flag last year, I originated that I wanted to do my Purif again. It had been a long time and the C/S agreed and I was able to go back to my local Org and do it. It was great!

    I only run, as a PC, what I have interest in and what indicates. Just like LRH says and I’ve never had a problem.

    Let me state for the record, I have never had bad auditing or bad service, ever. Yeah, sometimes there are arbitraries and such, but there isn’t one session that I have attention on.

    I do not run into problems within the Church that I have not been able to handle with high ARC and references. I find staff to be willing and able and most mistakes come from lack of hatting/training and that people respond well to a caring attitude and help.

    I rarely write people up because I have found that if I get in comm with them and sometimes issue a cram, it works great. I have had staff call me and thank me for the help.

  447. I want to thank all of you for the data about Jeff Walker, Sue Walker, and Mike Pincus. I have often thought about him, as he was such a good supervisor, and I will look for him in Texas.

    Also, Joe, thanks for your extensive history on Jeff. It was very thorough. Yes, Jeff did not exhibit high ARC. A friend of mine who was an outer org trainee at Flag learning to be an auditor and a C/S told me he treated them badly. One time she made a very small mistake, and he threw her PC folder on the floor in such a way as to make the session papers fly everywhere. It made me very sad to hear of this, as I believe people learning the technology who give up their time to do so to help others should be treated with respect and courtesy. I remember wondering how he did in session with his lack of ARC. The respect I have for him is based on his technical competence, and his willingness to correct auditors when they make mistakes, and cram them or do whatever is needed to get their technology in. He did not have a weak point in KSW #7 – #10. He was not afraid to let someone know they doing something incorrectly.

    One of the reasons he came up for me is the data on this blog about redefining F/N’s and Instant Reads. After I did those clay demos of all E-meter needle reads and the definition of an instant read, I never had any doubts about either one. He caught it just walking by us on the Solo Course that were taking “latent reads” on an e-meter drill.
    I shudder to think what would have happened had he not walked by that specific moment in time and I were stuck with those errors.

    One of my main reasons for not wanting to go back to Flag is that I have absolutely no doubts that I would be overrun on the first session if we have to use DM’s version of what an instant read is. After auditing myself through 8 OT levels, (R6EW, Clearing Course, OT I, OT II, OT III, OT VII (E.P.), OT III Expanded, and OT IV,) without a cram and nothing but VWD’s or VVWD’s, I think I know what my Floating Needle looks like, and it is NOT ALWAYS a dial wide, flip-flopping, lay down on each side of the meter, needle. Now of course that happens, too, but for me that is a “pack it up for the day, and let the PC have his win” F/N or perhaps the start of a Floating TA. For DM to say this has to happen with every process is absolutely ridiculous, as it completely bypasses the idea of gradients in auditing. PC’s start out, sometimes, with very small wins, and then as they get more confident, their wins get bigger. This new definition of the F/N will invalidate every “small” win a PC gets!!!!

    When I fully realized this, that is when I knew I could never go back into that out-tech environment. I will never allow myself to be handled by an auditor who is forced to audit that way. It was the turning point for me on “Will I go back to things as they are, and try to handle?” No, I will not. Not unless I can go back and personally handle DM himself, on this and other points.

    So, I maybe got “sudden”, but that’s what happens with this blog, something will catch your interest, a small string, to pull on, or maybe chasing down a rabbit hole that doesn’t seem too important, and the next thing you know, you are sitting there squarely facing the General Sherman tank!!!!!!!!!!

    Also, I have to say, that this thing of being treated with courtesy and respect is very important to me. It was one of my buttons that sometimes staff members did not treat others with respect, and it would bother me, especially, yelling and screaming at each other. I joined staff one time, helped my E.D. get her stats in screaming Affluence by just applying a couple of ED Communicator PL’s, getting her to shed her hats, and the next thing you know, she got awarded the OEC/FEBC and left for training. Her replacement, a Sea Org Garrison Temp ED, who became my senior, yelled at me, the first day. I came back the second day, she yelled at me again, and I routed out! I cannot imagine being in in an org where yelling and screaming and verbal abuse is the norm, and the stories on this blog from Int escapees are incredible. I know the effect this had on me of one or two days; I can’t begin to see how someone could survive with any semblence of sanity this kind of treatment for years!

    ML and thanks again,

  448. the dissem drill 🙂

  449. Virgil Samms

    Let me illustrate how Scientology, when correctly appllied, drives throngs of people into orgs:

    David Mayo gets called to where LRH is because LRH is dying. Mayo reviews LRH’s folder and finds he’s been getting a lot of Dianetics and getting worse.

    Mayo then developes techniques to handle LRH’s situation and it pulls LRH out of it. LRH says – Man – that was good stuff. Let’s bottle that and sell it.

    Mayo and LRH codify the techniques and calls it Ned for OTs. They export it to FSO. FSO trains up auditors for all of the AOs on the planet.

    The NOTs auditors return to AOLA and staert ausiting. All of a sudden AOLA is selling NOTS like no tomorrow. Regges are flat out selling with LINES, yes LINES waiting for the reges at AOLA to buy NOTS. AOLA GI goes over $600,000 weekly for close to 3 years as a result. Theother AOs boom similarly. It is a hugely successful RD.

    The reason NOTS was so popular is because it WORKED really well. People raved about it. Word of mouth spread to all of the field and drove in every OT who was off the bridge. The result was more and more public in on the lower orgs who then went OT and onto NOTs and then SOLO NOTS.

    It was a good boom.

    DM, the evil dragon, enters the scene. He deep-sixes May0, changes SOLO NOTS and people start dying. Orgs start drying up.

    End of Story.

    ML Tom

  450. martyrathbun09

    Goddess, I haven’t been around for a while so haven’t read whatever else you might have posted, but if you’ve got things under such wonderful control in your church why are you wasting time here?

  451. Oh hi there Kirstie Alley.

  452. Goddess: Somehow I just can’t buy into your emails.

    Typically I can get a sense of who is behind the email – even behind the hidden identity.

    I get nothing from your posts.

    And have some to the conclusion that you are a fiction of someones imagination. An attempt to bring sweetness and light to Marty’s board; showing the independents how perfect and smooth everything is.

    Other troll tactics have failed. Harsh make wrong by trolls gets sussed out quickly and either blasted or ignored.

    However with a goddess it’s more ephemeral.

    But even a goddess has substance.

    You are just a hologram, I’m afraid.


  453. “Goddess”, You could be a Goddess on lines at Celebrity Center or a V.I.P.?

    I have noticed Gods and Goddess’ seem to get better results within the Church.

    No need to apologize for being a Goddess and service fit for a God.

    Good for you! Don’t apologize about it!

    I assume you are visiting here because it’s lonely at the top.

  454. Really true.
    couldn’t find the thread on Pro LRH Tech website.
    Did you mean friends of lrh ?

  455. Tony DePhillips

    Yes…, I smell a plant.

  456. But the reality is, DM wiped out the Mission network and decided a person had to come up with 40,000.00 for some div six books in a box, a “mission started package”, before one could open their home for a group of Scientologists to get together and practice Scientology.

    So, they need beggars.

    I know of one person who bought a “Mission Starter” package and was waiting more than six months to get his dinky boxes of div 6 books and open his Mission.

    So, yes, they are not going to make it without beggars now.

    You have to give DM credit for coming up with a solution.

  457. LOL Sinar, Sarge was talking about the ‘fox’ (and squirrels) string!
    Sarge when you want to reply to a post click to reply instead of starting a new comm 🙂

  458. Goddes you are incoherent

  459. martyrathbun09

    Fact correction: Mayo did not develop anything. The original NOTs issues are nearly verbatim LRH’s spoken words transcribed and put into issue form by Mayo.

  460. And finally, for the people that consider themselves “Loyal Officers” here to upgrade the Earth Culture.

    If you have a better society to live in, go home to it.

    Let’s face it, you are stuck here without any transportation and living here off of our mercy all the while complaining about how bad things are, how elevated you are, and how we need to come up to speed.

    Give Earth back the “Earth People”.

    We are the natives here. You are illegal immigrants. We owned this planet before you even woke up here. You are poaching and complaining about us.

    If you have an advanced civilization that is so much better where the people are so much better, go home already.

    Hubbard gave Scientology to the Earth people.

    And you have attempted to make it vanish.

    But the Earth people are not letting go of it. It was a gift from someone else. Not yours to regulate. Like the wind it is part of our culture now. It is ours. It was Hubbard’s gift to US. And whoever uses it or thinks with it owns it. That means you in the DM regime are the ones out of Scientology, not US!

  461. Pierre did you audit Mario Majorksi.

  462. “Anyway, that’s the origins of FPRD.”

    Thanks. 🙂

    An interesting point here is that you say it was done in 1984, and thats the date of the HCOBs.

    In the Freezone community many hold this or that date as a cut off point where issues are LRH.

    Few go further than 1982.

    Then the latest vols go up to 1991.

    can you elucidate?

  463. Hahahaha!

  464. Goddess sez;

    “I only run, as a PC, what I have interest in and what indicates.”

    Wow really? You mean if I get back in I can skip those bothersome purifs and grades and go straight to OT five-hundred one thousand? (DM;)

    My stupid cs’es never let me get away with that before, they’d always end up putting me on the next action needed to handle my dumb case. Always going on about how GAINS were the point.

    Things really have changed more than I thought! LOL.

  465. Thought Provoking


    Thanks for the data on FPRD origins. I loved it too. Doing the basic list forever changed my viewpoint on my attitude towards others and my own postulates. The U in ARCU really came way up for me in terms of understanding what a spiritual being really was.

  466. Jim Logan

    “I have earned my certs as a Cramming Officer, on Flag, trained by those trained by LRH as well, in my field, and per CS Series 84, I’m recommending an Instruct to you. Since you are trained and have earned your certs, you will be familiar with CS Series 57, point 13:
    “Invalidation kills auditors. So don’t chew on them any harder than is necessary to get the job done.
    “Get “To Cramming” to mean, “normal procedure even for Class XIIs”

    If I’m not getting across this medium, you have my email address.”

    So here I am.

    I’ve attempted to resolve problems in the FZ
    long before Marty started his blog. Much failure, limited success. Spoke with Jim also re Pierre, a long while back. One comment he made was that in 5 years of his flag cramming hat Pierre was never referred to him.

    I think his instruct is very valid but is here and now stale dated. Not Jims fault. Goes way back before Jim came into the FZ or even the net best I know.

    No one has had more quarrels with Pierre than myself. Virtually all related to Jim’s instruct.

    I eventually regained good communication which I was only able to do with the input of
    “The Oracle”. I must confess the sin of pride to be a friend. 🙂

    I was an intermediary between Pierre and other auditors with mostly failure, but some success.

    I’m also good friends with auditors who he is
    C/S for and whose skills he upgrades. I’ve been priviledged to know some of his skill and input in these areas.

    Trey Lotz class VIII for example was the worlds most succesfull field auditor the COS ever knew. He is now interning on L’s under Pierre with blindingly brilliant successes. I record these among other places on ESMB if anyone cares to look on the FZ success thread.

    Were I to describe Pierre as an asshole it would
    not be out of line. But he’s so much more.

    Met Marty also. Really liked him, don’t agree with all his views but am a big fan and supporter on areas not so easy to do so. 🙂

    Will meet Pierre in the near future.

    So always look to futhering connections.

    Pathetic and usually fail. However my strongest suit is persistance. 🙂

    So you tech Prima Donnas love you both.

  467. Goddess,

    I get it – there aren’t phalanxes of IAS, Superpower, Planetary Dissem and Ideal Org “regges” aside from your regular FSO & FC reg you had to get through at Flag. It’s amazing you are allowed to do Purif at your own org – Flag has taken over the grades and lower services. Your experiences are completely different from those regular denizens of this blog.

    By the way – do you hang out with Minerva on that blog? Marty is correct, there is no reason for you to be here – it’s the wrong Universe or heavens for Deities to hang out at.

  468. CD, Mario is listed as a PC that Pierre has audited at Pierre’s site upperbridge.org.

  469. Thanks Sam,

    Thought he was being sudden again. 😉

  470. But then again – he did reply to my Fabian comment below, so perhaps I am following and replying correctly to his comment? 🙂

  471. Marty,

  472. Organize, yes, organization, no?


    PL’s are tech as far as I’m concerned. It’s third dynamic tech. It’s available to be used for our benefit. Not using it doesnt make one free.

  473. touche’ DFB

  474. Another Layer

    “… the button of “is it ok for you to look?”.

    This is very inspiring! I can use this with several friends. Thanks!

  475. Tony DePhillips

    Nice one LO!!

  476. cowboy poet

    Drop me a line.
    Either at thetatracker@gmail.com or cowboypoet@hushmail.com if you want incognito.
    You might take a look at my post under your melody you posted a few days ago.

  477. Another Layer


    This is perfect!!! Please, please, someone, photoshop in DM’s face. Let the pantzing begin … ;D (I believe I just experienced lulz.)

  478. Another Layer

    ~~ It’s the same as saying, “We do not have a valuable exchange and need to rely on charity.”

    A serious degrade of Dianetics and Scientology.~~

    Great observation!!! Thanks.

  479. Ken Urquhart just wrote an excellent article on NOTs and its development in the latest edition of IVy Mag 106. You can get a free issue by going to their site and asking for one.

    Anyway, Ken would know if anybody would, having spent more time on LRH’s lines than anybody excepting Mary Sue. He also knew Mayo well and knew both their writing styles.

    Ken is certain that NOTs is pure LRH. Mayo said he wrote it as part of his court case, which, as Ken points out, is not so much about establishing truth as it is about winning.

  480. Yep. LRH left many orders for bulletins to be written and left explicit directions for such. These were kept in an LRH orders log in RTRC and a rerelease of the Tech Vols was planned in 1990, all these orders were complied to and the issues written up and authorized. This included such things as the C/S Correction checklists which LRH had ordered years before his death that RTRC never got around to doing, a clarification of the PRD as it relates to KTL and some others that have April/May 1991 dates. That orders log was closed for all non-confid issues at that time. Everything was complied to and included in the 1991 re-release of the Tech Vols.

    And, jeez, anybody who disregards anything after 1982 is missing out on the entirety of FPRD. That’s lame.

  481. WW: No, you are not wrong.


  482. I love you. I love Ralph. I love Nick. I love Pierre. I love Marty. I love Chris. I love any man who has managed to stand on this Earth and upstage Jesus with miracles and understanding. This is a very holy dimension. Long ago religion and magic were considered the same. I am sorry the magic is not acknowledged in this arena but I take what I can get. We are part of the same group. We are each other’s people. Let’s not permit walls to come between us and weaken us.
    Can’t you see there are people turning us against one another and destroying whatever is holy left? This is what real love, not the synthetic or implanted love is about. This is a war between love and hate. And only love can conquere hate.
    Please take responsibility for this Scientology now. And just use the ARC triangle and communication and trust to move this thing forward and keep it alive a few days longer than scheduled. We are all on the same side if it is true man is basically good. Please use Scientology statistics to make decisions. Pierre sat in a chair and cared about others as an auditor for decades. So did Ralph. Marty gave decades.Chris trained through class nine. If we cannot honor the good in that evidence, we have joined the forces that think thursday at 2:00 is the only matter and have serious math handicaps. And are seriously the effect of time, not cause over it. Many things, are senior to time. In fact Hubbard points out that an OT,is senior to Matter Ennergy Space and Time. What we are matters to me, not what they have become. We have to trust one another or we will get nowhere. And we have to know who our enemies are or we will get deleted. Know people by thier actions. Who can declare an auditor suppressive? Not us, I hope.

  483. Cat, I live in a small town in Michigan. Most of
    the squirrel population are black squirrels.

  484. Sam, Duh. boy do I feel dumb. I noticed it
    also helps if I put on my reading glasses.

  485. Sinar, Thank you. Got it figured out now. I
    couldn’t understand how you guys did that.

  486. Virgil’s version rings very true to me IF it is true that LRH was dying, Mayo reviewed his folder and was able to come up with something that saved LRH’s life. I don’t think LRH in dying condition would have been able to that otherwise Mayo would not have been called for help anyway.

    If LRH spoke the words on tape and they were then transcribed they of course are LRH’s expressing style. So, the style alone is not proof enough against Mayo’s version of the story.

    Just saying to me the question of authorship of NOTs is not answered.

  487. martyrathbun09

    Fidelio, go on kidding yourself.

  488. Okay. I will ask this question . Why where these NOTS invalidaded in the 1990ties as being “MAYONAISE” ?

  489. Fidelio,

    It is true that LRH was very sick in fall ’78 – Dr Gene Denk and a Chiro were brought in for the first time to see him in La Quinta but conditions did not improve. Mayo came in on the red eye run from CW immediately went in session with him and things improved markedly from that point. I did observe this due to my job providing personal service.

    However, one stable datum that continues to be true is that LRH is Source. PC + Auditor = greater than bank and Mayo was needed to assist. I’ve also observed that there were many directions given to Mayo and other Tech compilations people to research and write up various things. This does not change the fact that LRH is Source. I have no question on that at all.

    Huge booms occurred as a result of LRH discovering NED, NED for OTs, and Solo NED for OTs.

    DM is NOT Dept 21 (Source) though he’s asserted that for a couple of decades at least. In fact through his Reverse Tech he’s created situations where PC + bank = greater than auditor – witness gang bang sec checks and broadcasting PC confidential info by broad public issue. Also creating reverse booms for Mestology and creation of the Indie movement.

    Mayo is a great auditor (he has audited me) and we were good friends & liked him a lot. He is not Source either.

  490. martyrathbun09

    Sinar, You are right on the money.

  491. Why is it that – “Few go further than 1982.” ??? In ’82 there was a huge slurry of activity at the Int base to renovate the property and to make it safe as he asserted he wanted to be there. This continued for the next few years and as I understand was his intention.

    LRH went “off the lines” in Feb of ’80 but was still in comm, though with more vias until he left in ’86.

  492. @Sinar
    “In fact through his Reverse Tech he’s created situations where PC + bank = greater than auditor – witness gang bang sec checks and broadcasting PC confidential info by broad public issue.”

    Very true. Nice piece of insight there. That’s exactly the formula created through Reverse Tech. PC + bank = greater than auditor. Trust goes out the window.

  493. Sinar,

    thank you, and yes PC + Auditor= greater than bank. I saw some videos with Mayo, and I can vividly imagine that he is a great auditor full of ARC and fully trusted by LRH himself. Good that he helped to save LRH’s life.

  494. Pierre, and Marty, if neither of you have any disagreements with the third party tech, you can both admit in some form you have been pitted against one another or there would be no conflict.

  495. I think there is a thread of injustice here because of a misunderstanding. Firstly, Pierre is not hallucinating. I did read a sideways slur upon Pierre on Marty’s older blog. However, it did not originate from Marty. He was not the source of the slur. He mentioned something about Pierre but did not use his name specifically and it was information / a report and the source was Diana class 8 also known as Aida Thomas. Marty had not been provided with additional data about Pierre but I noticed once I did send him more info that he took that section off. So, Marty relayed information but was not the source of it. That is for Pierre’s info.
    Marty was not the source on that. However, since it was information on Marty’s blog I think Pierre thought of Marty as the source. Then, after Marty innocently shared the information, (cutting off the bridge to Pierre), a “get Marty” game was set off by the same source over on BB’s Freezone forum. So, the idea was to cut lines between Pierre and Marty and then take Marty out. I watched the whole thing. And BB and I worked for two months on BB’s forum to squash the “Get Marty” game that was started over there.

    Anyway, all Pierre would have to do is get in comm with Marty and find out who sent Marty the information to know that Marty was sharing information not inventing it.

    The point is and what I have seen leaders in the Freezone struggle with, is a celebrity handicap anyone well known with lots of comm lines has. The sorting out of information. It is a burden any high profile person struggles with. There are people who wriggle themselves into these comm lines in a subtle manner and jam them with incomplete alrtered or false data or false reports. It is almost impossible when you are getting feedback from hundreds of people a day to sort it out and figure out how things could or could not add up.

    “The past” begins to effect “the future” with misunderstandings that result later in time.

    And it all sorts out when people just take matters up in present time and let go of “the past”.

    I have known individually and on a personal level in some way Ralph Hilton, Nick Warren, Terrill Park, Pierre, Ken Urquhart, and Trey Lotz. And they are all trustworthy and vital contributing members of the Independent Movement. They have kept the tech alive. Marty, and Mike Rinder thrown into the mix with their knowledge of the administrative angles and ability to reach out and educate makes the Independent movement a real issue to be reckoned with right now. All of these guys TOGETHER are a force to be reckoned with. Seperated and pitted against one another they will be used to build walls and tear down the promise we have.

    It is vital to all of us to support all of them.

  496. Also, when you move up from being “grouped terminals” to “associated terminals”, the best formula to think with and the simplest, is Hubbard’s motto: “Maximum creation, minimum desruction”. That is a math formula that always adds up to = Bigs wins and insignificant losses.

    If we all in the Independent field can think with this, contribute to create, ignore invitations to destroy, we will be alright and come out ahead.

  497. I see this conflict between Pierre and Marty could use some more truth, so I’m going to do just that, despite the likely backlash from Ethier for airing his dirty laundry. But to unjustly attack Marty like he did on his comment, I’m afraid these are the consequences.

    July 24, 2009: I gave a session to a former pc of Pierre’s, who a year earlier had received L-11 from him. What came up in the session (and I later found out has happened with other pcs of his as well) I wrote Pierre about – with a polite, respectful tone – in an effort to keep Scientology working in the hands of Independent auditors.

    This is what I wrote, verbatim:

    “Dear Pierre,

    “I wanted to first extend once more my invitation to join the website forum I created for tech people like ourselves who carry the banner of standard LRH tech. http://lrhtech.hostoi.com/index.php

    “As you know, one of your L-11 pcs X X came to me for Method One Word Clearing, which he was already mid and wanted to complete before resuming the Ls. I did a D of P as a first step, and he expressed that he had been having a rough year. He expressed that he had been feeling apathetic and on checking how he felt about his previous auditing he said that he had “no mind blowing wins” from his L-11. He also expressed that you had fallen asleep in session and that he had to wake you up.

    “Instead of just flying ruds before M1 I recognized a potential out-list situation and assessed a C/S 53. Out-lists did read and we cleaned up an L&N list on evil purposes from his L-11. PC F/N VGIs and nice win on this about having been dramatizing this purpose. I re-assessed the L4BRB to ensure all bpc on lists was cleaned up. What did come up was a wrong date from an implant he D/Led on his L-11. This was taken to a blow, with BD and F/N, VGIs. We also cleaned up some bpc on ethics cycles in the church, some bpc from previous auditing, and he is an F/Ning VGIs pc now ready to get on with his M1. You probably saw the success story he posted on IFA chat group.

    “I wanted you to have this data. I hope that any situation causing you to fall asleep in session is handled. Let me know if I or another tech terminal can be of assistance concerning this or any other tech matter.

    “Hope to see you on the forum! I’ll leave you with this LRH quote from HCOB C/S Series 56 HOW TO GET RESULTS IN AN HGC:

    I have never seen individual auditors succeed over a long period. Failing to form or become part of a team, they eventually fade out or squirrel.

    The reason is simple enough.

    These rules apply:


    And I don’t mean just writing better in folders.

    … the third dynamic is stronger than the first dynamic.

    An auditor auditing alone is a first dynamic. The pc is a first dynamic. As it is the auditor plus pc that must be greater than the reactive mind, one can easily work the rest out.

    If the auditor is part of a functioning third dynamic, not just an individual, the auditor plus pc versus the bank is a LOT more than the bank.


    John Nunez”

    What I got back was total denial of what the pc said as having occurred, and that it was unique to California such criticism derives. He also chastised me for attempting to correct an L & N list from L-11.

    However, I had since discovered that numerous other instances of this type of out-tech (namely falling asleep in session) were known about as regards Pierre, so I decided to report it to the organization he belonged, the International Freezone Association.

    This was my report to them, written August 2, 2009 (I also sent Pierre a copy):

    “About a year ago Pierre audited my current pc, X X, on L-11. The pc told me in the start-up D of P interview that he had no “mind blowing wins” from the L, and had been having a rough year, felt apathetic, and that Pierre fell asleep in the sessions, to the point where he had to wake him up by kicking his foot. I therefore assessed a 53 as part of the set-up for his M1 which he had come to me for. During the 53, I cleaned up on out-list on evil purposes Pierre had done on the pc, and found the correct item, which pc said he had been dramatizing in his daily life. I also cleaned up a date/locate of an implant that was incorrectly dated on the L. I also cleaned up bypassed charge on auditing he had had before the L the pc had attention on (and thus not set-up for an L), as well as cleaning up bypassed charge (of wrong indications) he had in ethics before leaving the church (and thus not set-up for an L). The pc said he spent a total of 9 hours on the L (which is sold in a two intensive package).

    “I wrote Pierre regarding this and forwarded you a copy. He essentially denies falling asleep and writes it off as pc criticism. Ironically, he fails to see that out-tech would have produced the pc criticism, and blames the state of California for the apparent numerous “attacks” on his auditing skill. The meter backed up the pc’s data, for the record. He is now an F/Ning pc and VGIs, having written two success stories from the C/S 53 auditing. He is onto his Method One and winning nicely.

    “I was disappointed in Pierre’s response, which essentially was a refusal to acknowledge the truth, chastise me for repairing out-lists that had nothing to do with L technology (such as C/S Series 37R – this was simply an L & N list for an evil purpose, which follows the laws of L & N) and fixing a Date/Locate which is Grad V material. I handled the pc in front of me with standard tech, and he came out a winning pc.

    “I have since found out that this is not the first time Pierre has fallen asleep in sessions. He apparently did this with other pcs while he was in Southern California. I noticed today on the IFA chat list that he is accusing other auditors of the very out-tech he has committed, and implies his tech is flubless. It is not. Get corrected Pierre. I politely tried to correct you and this did not result in tech going in, so this is the next gradient. Falling asleep in session is flagrant out-TR 0, and throws the pc very out of session. Messing up on L&N and D/L are serious tech flubs, and result in a pc out of PT, not to mention the subject matter of the restimulation here (evil purposes and implants). Take responsibility for your tech and get corrected.

    This is true,
    John Nunez
    Flag trained Class VI Senior C/S ”

    Pierre then publicly accused me of lying about what the pc said, so I info’d the pc on the email, to which he confirmed everything. Pierre then resigned from IFA, writing the following to me and the head of that organization (this is verbatim):








    As you can see from the dates, it’s been almost a year since this occurred. I haven’t had reason to impart this data publicly until now, seeing Marty come under attack.

    The bottom line is Pierre should get his tech to LRH expectations of a Class XII. Even a Class 0 auditor trained in a tiny org is expected to
    sit there attentively and listen, not fall asleep.

    Instead, Pierre has become a megalomaniac with some mistaken notion that he is Source.

    It is sad.

    This is true,
    John Nunez

  498. Theo Sismanides

    Pierre posted on 9 of June 1:30 pm.

    Marty responded around 10.20 pm.

    It’s now the 12th of June here in Greece just past midnight.

    Soon it’s going to be 3 days since this issue came up.

    See, just because I care (and I am not the only one) it does not mean I can be effect of things.

    As a matter of fact I might, actually I have LONG TIME now (it’s ten years now) postulated this situation. Where we all come together. This is my creation too.

    I care and others do, too. We want to have a happy ending and that’s not a Hollywood movie. It’s more important to us.

  499. I see, thank you for demystifieng , In Europe we don’t have them I think. I do know of the American Grey taking over in the UK for instance endangering the red ones.

  500. For those who don’t know, Mario Majorski showed up at CC Int (2 years ago?) and after exiting his vehicle and headed towards the fountain courtyard with a samurai sword. He was intercepted by an armed security guard and instead of leaving, fetched a second samurai sword from his vehicle and advanced upon the guard menacing him with the swords and ignoring all warnings to halt and desist and was subsequently shot once, fatally.

    The incident was caught on video and the shooting was adjudicated justifiable.

    Michael A. Hobson

  501. “THEY CAME FIRST for the List One RS’ers,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a List One RS’er. Now that I have done OT3 I wonder how such a stupid error came to be. My best friend taken from staff and her child farmed out in foster care for years because of it.

    THEN THEY CAME for the Mission Holders.
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Mission Holder. I watched the people who had held the fort in that town for decades robbed of a lifes work with their bank accounts, buildings, friends, staff, purpose, and eventually, their lives. There are no missions in that town now.

    THEN THEY CAME for the Critics,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Critic.

    By the time THEY CAME for the Independents, we were waiting for them.

  502. Thank you for posting this John.

  503. Virgil Samms

    Okay, My bad for giving Mayo kudos. Noone has corrected this story before.

    But my main point was and is when you get the tech correct, the PCs win like crazy and the orgs expand. My whole point.

    Of course,LRH is source.

    ML Tom

  504. Oracle, you got it! You’ve articulated the difference between other groups that were oppressed and the Indies. If we can get this mess straightened out before the lunatics in “government” catch on, we’ll be alright.

  505. I find John Nunez’ one-sided selection of emails to be disingenuous. Instead of giving us the whole picture by showing us Pierre’s responses throughout their email conversation, John simply gives us the verbatim emails from John, but excludes the verbatim responses from Pierre. John then gives us Pierre’s final response, where he is clearly exasperated.

    Because of John’s attempt to paint a one-sided case against Pierre, instead of a balanced one, I question the accuracy of John’s conclusions. Further, because of the ommitted data in the above report from John, and because he has chosen to make it public, it is safe to describe the above report as third-party (I’m sure John would not appreciate PC complaints of his own auditing aired publicly — whether valid or not).

    John says he is “making this public” because of Pierre “unjustly attacking Marty”. As anyone who has been following this blog knows, Marty was the first to publicly attack Pierre (if obliquely), beginning on 9/21/2009 in the Joe Howard paradigm. Marty has also made negative remarks about Pierre elsewhere on this blog, in response to people commenting positively about data on Pierre’s website.

    I find John Nunez’ public attack against Pierre to be reprehensible, and I am disheartened by Marty taking his own first shots against Pierre on this blog.

    I have met Pierre, and have been audited by him in the last year. His TRs are as natural as can be, and both myself and a family member had fantastic wins. We cannot wait to get back onto his busy calendar for more auditing.

    Outside of session, Pierre is a wonderful, friendly, self-assured individual, who also grants beingness freely and does his best to make the person in front of him feel valued and important.

    I think it is such a shame that people are publicly attacking him. Let the man have his accomplishments and beingness, without attempting to tear him down.

  506. Theo Sismanides

    John, thank you. The first thing I came to see this morning on my computer was this thread with Pierre and what is happening.

    Your reports are giving some very important data and I fully agree that to better production one has to better administration. I have been saying this from day one on this blog.

    We cannot have any results if we don’t operate with some organization and I don’t mean the super suppressive organization of C of M.

    I am glad we can and we are doing something to that direction via this blog. Your reports are part of that.

    It looks like some people need to be handled by a third dynamic otherwise thing go off the rails.

  507. martyrathbun09

    Margaret, You should take a step back and look at your comment here against John’s and against Pierre’s first stone. Your defense of Pierre, and attack on John Nunez, smacks of the blind faith manner in which Kool Aid drinkers defend DM.

  508. Marty wrote “You should take a step back and look at your comment here against John’s and against Pierre’s first stone.”

    Marty, none of us can honestly gauge the source of that first stone, because John only gave us his own emails verbatim and not Pierre’s.

    And none of us saw the email exchange that you and Pierre had, so there is incomplete data there too.

    I don’t claim Pierre to be perfect, but I do find these public attacks on him to be unproductive, if not unprofessional and damaging to the strength of the group.

    In my one-on-one conversations with Pierre, he appeared willing and able to expand his viewpoint, and also seemed capable of self-correction and improvement, if approached with civility, ARC and accurate/complete data — as any of us would hope to be approached if confronted with this sort of data.

  509. Margaret,

    I noticed you only pointed out Pierre’s initial response was summarized and not given verbatim, omitted to ask me for it, and drew rapid conclusions as to my intentions on making the post, deciding the data was not valid as your final conclusion, instead of pulling strings and seeing what might lie at the bottom of this.

    If my intention was to be disingenuous the whole thing could be a forgery, and someone with that intention would have forged the reply email of Pierre’s. It’s not whether or not I left out rambling emails from Pierre that were so full of misrepresentations of fact I opted to leave them out and short-hand it for the sake of the readership here.

    If you want to see them, email me at freeandclearnow@gmail.com and you’ll receive copies of them.

    You didn’t say this but just for the record my intention is also not to invalidate your or anyone else’s wins from the auditing received by Pierre.

    My intention is to put truth on the line where vicious and unfounded misrepresentations of Marty were being put forth by Pierre, leading to quite a few readers hanging up on it.

    I find it completely not OK for anyone to falsely try and tear down the person who is leading a movement to expose and put ethics in on David Miscavige. I am sure LRH would to.

    Look at Marty’s products along this line over the last year, compare them to Pierre’s entire history, and you tell me who is upstat.

    I remember well how highly I looked up to Pierre when I left the Church: A Class XII, auditing independently, and speaking out against church abuses. All very laudatory.

    It is easy to understand why someone might become confused when they see two terminals like Marty and Pierre be in some sort of conflict.

    For someone who has experienced the insanity that Pierre dramatizes on those independents who have been a perceived threat to him in some way, such as to expose his out-tech and out-ethics, there is no confusion on why there might be a conflict.

    There is a long trail of outpoints with Pierre, that is well known in IFA and Freezone circles. That can be proven by visiting their chat groups on Yahoo and searching his name. On back channels, the real story begins to even more take shape. I invite you to do your own investigation.

    It didn’t come across my lines until this pc of last year. The vital fact to consider here is that all I was doing was trying to get Pierre to correct himself so that his pcs (like you) would receive standard tech and win. I emailed him personally and confidentially, and got back an email which denied everything the pc was telling me and that I shouldn’t be repairing the pc, as I’m not in the know as regards L-11 (running a hidden data line.) All I was doing was repairing Listing and Nulling, and Dating and Locating. All I was doing was suggesting he do something about the out-tech he was committing. He could have sent me an acknowledgment and that would have been that.

    Instead he denied it and clearly doubted my perspicuity. As a former Senior Case Supervisor, having worked with many different auditors over the past 16 years, this threw up a big red flag. I knew I was dealing with a very out-ethics auditor who must have other out-tech. I knew this immediately because that is what LRH says throughout the C/S training I did, and it always proved out to be the case.

    It became evident I was dealing with someone bordering on Type 3, who was battling his own psychosis, and best left off my comm lines. It was clear there was no way to get Pierre corrected.

    I read the comments on this blog and decided to act. That is what personal integrity is all about. I gave the data I knew, and people can possibly now resolve a confusion between Pierre and Marty that looks less confusing now.

    I stand by everything I said and know it to be 100% true.

  510. martyrathbun09

    For the record, John Nunez is one of the few auditors/C/Ses I unequivocally recommend.

  511. martyrathbun09

    Margaret, I think if you learn SOS cold you won’t have any serious problems with being mislead by anyone.

  512. Marty wrote “Margaret, I think if you learn SOS cold you won’t have any serious problems with being mislead by anyone.”

    Having been audited by Pierre, and having spent many hours and days in casual conversation with the man, I think I’m in a pretty decent position to judge his tone level.

    Further, based on the number of independent observers here who are calling on you to recognize a third-party and/or attempt a reconciliation, I find it disappointing that you can’t acknowledge a possible need for this. That, to me, smacks of the unjust approach taken in the early 80s — of which you yourself are critical — from which the Church never recovered, imho.

    Getting into an all new Us vs. Them here amongst the Independents does not bode well for a unified and strong future — as I’m sure you understand.

  513. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for your thoughts Margaret. Your harking back to the early 80’s smacks of the Drama Queen himself. I’m done with this.

  514. John wrote: “I emailed him personally and confidentially, and got back an email which denied everything the pc was telling me and that I shouldn’t be repairing the pc, as I’m not in the know as regards L-11 (running a hidden data line.) … All I was doing was suggesting he do something about the out-tech he was committing. He could have sent me an acknowledgment and that would have been that.”

    John, I understand the conundrum you found yourself in. And I will take you up on your offer to email you privately.

    Before I do, I’d like you to honestly consider this: Had a Class I auditor written you regarding one of your Grade VI/Power pcs (who himself may have gotten 3P on you from another), do you really think you would have simply “acknowledged it and that would have been that”?

    Be honest with yourself.

    I think Pierre faced a conundrum too, and regardless if their were out-TRs involved, he had a duty to see that it was repaired at the level that he felt it needed to be per Standard Tech — and was at the time uniquely trained and capable of.

    And for the record, Pierre was open to me about having out-TRs with Diana’s husband on a couple of occasions a year or more back. And he did this without my prompting it, or having any knowledge of it. It was clear to me that he was capable of taking responsibility for in-session mistakes.

    Whatever the truth of all this may be, it does none of us any good to engage in vicious and personal PUBLIC attacks — covert or overt.

  515. martyrathbun09

    Margaret said: “I think Pierre faced a conundrum too, and regardless if their were out-TRs involved, he had a duty to see that it was repaired at the level that he felt it needed to be per Standard Tech — and was at the time uniquely trained and capable of.” That is utter bullshit and is the point of my original mention of him months ago, albeit not by name. That is, to the degree he purveys such nonsesense he seeks to perpetrate a priesthood.

  516. If both are true than both are Source.

    A river is sourced by many creeks, without them the river runs dry

    Think outside the box

  517. “That is utter bullshit”.

    Well, I’ve said my peace Marty. So thank you for allowing that. That is surely a freedom that the CoM would have quashed long ago, and I appreciate your willingness to let me “counter or utter or write upon” my views, despite our having a difference of opinion.

  518. martyrathbun09


  519. Mark A. Baker

    Deliberately relying on half-truths to perpetuate the official church lies about David Mayo is nothing for which anyone should be proud.

    Fortunately, the truth about the development of scientology & the many contributions made by David & others over the years is available elsewhere on the internet. Unfortunately, the truth is not permitted here on Marty’s blog.

    Marty appears to be unwilling to allow discussion of ALL the relevant facts pertinent to the history of scientology on his site. This lapse means that a reliable & accurate understanding of the history of scientology & its principals is NOT possible for anyone relying on this blog as a primary data source. This can only be interpreted as a deliberate intent to mislead & deceive others on the part of the blog owner and his coterie. Marty seems quite intent on deliberately perpetuating the many lies propagated by the church of scientology over the decades. He is certainly doing a “bang up” job of promoting the church fictions.

    When will the discussion of the unalloyed truth about scientology be permitted on this blog?

  520. martyrathbun09

    Hey Baker, get a life. I’ll address losers like you when the time comes. In the meantime, GONG.

  521. Mark — Here’s a good idea for you. Start your own blog. You then get to decide what topics you want to have discussed. It’s easy. It’s free. And you can write away to your heart’s content. I know, possibly nobody will read it. But one thing is sure about the internet, it is a free market economy. The reason this blog is so popular (and increasing in popularity daily) is BECAUSE of the content. Maybe yours will be even more popular if people want to hear about David Mayo or whatever else it is that is occupying your attention units. I am sure once you have your blog up and running Marty will graciously allow you to put up a posting here announcing it to one and all. Or maybe you should just do what he did and start your blog and attract readers and interest based on what you write and the word of mouth it generates. Good luck in your efforts, I think the more voices that are out there speaking up from their reality, the better. I will certainly stop in to check your new blog out and see if it is worth spending time to read.

  522. I see this point about Pierre auditing Mario was not cleared up. I asked a similar question some years back. Mario said that Pierre had not auditied him. Pierre said that he had not audited Mario but that he had been erroneously included in the list.

  523. Regarding the authorship of NOTs I enquired of one of LRH’s meesengers who was there at the time and whom I trust regarding what went on at the time. LRH authored NOTs. David wrote up issues based on exact LRH instructions which were then reviewed by LRH.
    As far as OT8s running objectives I do not see a problem with it if it is the correct action. If it is correct then I would expect them to be VGIs about it!
    The old OT4, subsequently removed from the Bridge, involved checking over a person’s lower levels to ensure they were flat. It would make sense to me to reintroduce that step after OT8.
    The reference on it is C/S series 13 “VIII actions”. Please don’t take this as in any way condoning DM’s actions which do not appear to even vaguely resemble the way LRH intended it.

  524. martyrathbun09

    Ralph, OT VIII has been amended twice since original issuance. The original was truest to source. The EP would not allow of objectives. I believe the subsequent revisions of OT VIII were done to make VIIIs more suggestible and controlable. Cite whatever you want to cite, those who honestly attained the original New VIII can tell you there is no other purposes of objectives after that level except to yank people back into the GPM where DM can control their futures. I love you Ralph.

  525. Floating Needle

    Cat Daddy, sorry for the late answer. (Have been at the seaside for a few days.)
    Any problem for which “to have lots of money” or “to prevent others to go up the Bridge” could be a “solution”, like “How to be safe?”, “How not to be attacked?”, “How to be someone?” or even “What beingness is safe?”-type of issue.

    “The pc went down the track. So he was out there one day walking down a road, and he saw a little boy playing with the goats, and the little boy appeared to be very happy. And he was very grumpy that day, or just for the hell of it, he zapped the little boy. And he went on for a few centuries, and one day he was out there playing on the hill with the goats, and the king’s men came along and wiped out all the goats and beat him and threw him amongst the dead. And he came to himself and decided that the thing to do was to rule king’s men.
    Or maybe he decided the thing to do was to be a very rich merchant so that you could buy all the goats and the soldiers could just slaughter the goats ad nauseam and you still wouldn’t run out of goats. But you’ve altered his beingness because he has had to solve a problem, and the basic solution to the problem was a new beingness which gave him a new game. And a game consisted of beingness, doingness and havingness. Those are the components of the game. But he is now not being himself; he is being a solution to the problem of living.” (ASSESSMENT, SHSBC-002, 12 May 1961)

  526. Hi MRinder, I think there are issues more sinister than having nothing to deliver after OT8. DM’s squirreling has been going on far longer. All of his actions have been about slowing bridge progress while claiming to do the opposite and acquiring power and money. This man is destroying, albeit slowly, the bridge and altering the method at all levels. This is not a misguided man making errors. A being is known by his products. An orgs products are happy audited P/C’s and trained auditors. I see a dearth of both. The orgs and missions have many NEW OT 8’s and I suppose that’s ok but it isn’t a substitute for Class 8’s-ever. Where are the class 8″s? The ones not auditing in the independent field I mean. The orgs are empty as are the missions. Auditing time is consumed with Sec Checks instead of Bridge processing. Parishioner revenues are ravaged by excess SEC Checking, when they do get in the chair, the IAS and every ‘NEW” release DM can come up with that will “Save the planet”. Last years “Solution” is abandoned and forgotten so the ‘New Solution” can be used to raise more funds. This cycle has been going on for almost 30 years. I suspect you are being conservative so as to not alienate people new to the REAL SCENE and I understand that. But I’m afraid I am unable to constrain my view and was compelled to express it here. Please keep up the good work you, Marty and others are doing.


  527. The idea of a (1980) cutoff point was introduced by Bill Robertson in 1984. People who follow his belief system have generally gone along with that.
    I would say that Independepents outside that following have made different decisions based on their own evaluations.
    Bill believed that he was in telepathic communication with LRH who was approving his “upper OT levels”.
    It is my perception that Bill had somewhat of a vested interest in maintaining that LRH was off the lines totally.

  528. I think anyone who makes an effort to understand DM is involved in a futile excercise. He is psychotic continuously and automatically postulating his own incomprehensibilty. If one attempts to understand a pychotic one get drawn a bit into duplicating them and can go a bit spinny on it.
    LRH explains the mechanism in PAB 44.

  529. Hi Marty, Luvya too 🙂
    It seems a good point to enter my thoughts on OT8.
    I have been very sceptical about everything released by the CofS regarding OT8 and do not see anything that matching LRH’s statements about the level in 1968 on the Class 8 course.
    If the complete original new OT8 is written up I’d be interested in getting a copy.
    I’m guessing that the original OT8 was shelved for a later date and the new OT8 is a different level with a different intended EP.
    The original OT8, per the class 8 tapes, addressed the subject of the thetan and his relationship to MEST and was intended to make OTs that were fully and directly at cause over MEST.

  530. martyrathbun09

    Ralph, I think you are right on your direction of thinking about the purpose of OT VIII. And if you understand that, you can also appreciate that given a complete understanding of PDC and other pre 55 OT lectures, it is conceivable you can arrive there in the course of OT VII.

  531. martyrathbun09

    Ralph, ya think?

  532. Yes, that has been my thinking on it too. It was my intention a few years ago to put together a course in the style of the original ACCs. I have observed quite a few times that a group of OTs together synergistically amplify their OT ability. The reverse is incidentally also true around DM.
    I had put together a basic curriculum based mainly on the 2nd ACC but using 1st ACC material too as I felt that the sequence of presentation of material there was an improvement over the PDC.
    I have yet to get a copy of the full 3rd ACC tapes which I gather are now available in the CofS.
    There was not a lot of interest at the time. Possibly not too many are yet sufficiently dePTSed from the CofS to be ready.
    I have felt that the requirement that the orgs get to a certain size etc before the release of OT9 was deemed necessary by LRH due to the need for such a group synergy.
    What do you think of the idea of getting a group of OT8s together for a 1950s style OT congress based purely on LRH material? It could even be in Austria – the local police are not very tolerant of jokers like the PIs in your videos. One of the reasons I moved here is that it is quite a safe space far from the mad dogs.

  533. martyrathbun09

    Ralph, great idea. But, I think a group setting is hardly needed for studying LRH material.

  534. Bill was actually quite a charismatic individual to many. He managed to subvert the Independent Scientology field in 1984 taking a large chunk into his fold.
    When David Mayo betrayed the Independent Field by allowing vicious attacks against LRH from those close to him and even endorsing them he left the ground open for Bill to assert his technical “Authority”.
    The Independent Scientology scene deteriorated from around 1984.
    We have another chance to build an Independent Scientology group now. Possibly quite a large one.
    One mistake we MUST avoid is appointing any tech opinion leader or authority.
    We are all peers in this venture.
    I have seen various people over the years attempting to position themselves as authorities on the tech. But neither can we go for some old ladies tea party where the tech is corrupted and people go to Freezone conventions to listen to lectures about the influences of LRH’s astrological birthchart on the technology.
    I think we now have an opportunity to build a strong group who have brick shithouse size bullshit detectors in place and aren’t going to buy technical “authorities” who denigrate LRH.

  535. I don’t think a group setting is needed for studying the material but for applying it. In 1968 LRH said that OT7 was about life interacting with life. And that OT8 was about life interacting with MEST.
    Our cases become too private in some ways.
    How can states which involve interaction be achived alone?
    I’m suggesting that they could be better achieved the way LRH did it back in the 50s – in a group.

  536. martyrathbun09

    That is why I have been advocating from the outset creation of COMMUNITIES.

  537. I should add that I really didn’t like courserooms and serfacy supervisors but LRH did put forward the idea that Scientology should be studied in a courseroom (group). He did an eval back in 78 or so and said all course sups must be grade 4 ! Dunno what happened to that in most orgs,

  538. Communities sounds great. That is exactly what we need. No “Authorities” and self important people who have hidden data lines allowed.
    Anyone who says they have the keys to the Bridge and people have to go to them for training at great expense is FOS.
    A community of people sharing their knowledge and experience is, I feel, the way to progress.
    Practical details need to be worked on. I wouldn’t be happy sitting in a tent auditing people for gratuities. I’m not really interested in having custom made crocodile skin shoes either.
    No self important gurus allowed anymore is the way I would progress.

  539. I can also confirm that Dr Schulze’s products are fantastic.

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  540. Watchful Navigator

    Thanks for that reference Ralph. It really is spot-on.

    David Miscavige is well-described as that “incomprehensetic” in that PAB 44: “There is no other causation in psychotic behaviour than that everything is incomprehensible.”

    So aren’t our efforts to understand this rock-slammer truly wasted?

    On the other hand he is running a big enough game to make me think twice about Jim L’s observation elsewhere, that DM’s here solely to try and destroy what LRH built.

    Seems however, that just how he carries out that evil purpose has been “purposely” – even “cleverly” – incomprehensible.

    Being that this “being” is a composite and subject to all the laws of human behavior LRH unearthed, as this scene decays further (his dwindling spiral appears to be accelerating) we can therefore expect to “understand” or “comprehend” less and less…

  541. Watchful Navigator


  542. Watchful Navigator

    Thanks for both of those posts Michael – found them very helpful.

  543. Pingback: Truth Revealed about OT VIII | Moving On Up a Little Higher

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