Perversion of the Tech of Ethics

Check out the latest from the Freewinds.  The greed of Miscavige has become so inculcated that the OT VIII delivery org is now promoting Ethics as the cousin of the subject of Finance.  The “executives” of the FSSO are charging people to learn to apply Ethics “including what your beingness as an Ethics Officer should be.” 

Some time ago  Dan Koon (Joe Howard) wrote about a major date coincidence for the death throes of the church of Scientology setting in.  He wrote of Miscavige’s mission to create the “ideal Sea Org member” in every one (feel free to post the link, I am sure it is on That beingness is devoid of compassion, emotion (outside the anger band), spontaneity, creativity, and really life.  I think his Art Series 8 (model) was agent Smith from The Matrix. Now, you can pay 1,500 dollars to learn it as a public.  And directly from the C0mmanding Officer of the organization that was created to finally and permanently free people of such enforced, robotic valences.  

The church of Scientology is dead.

In its place lies an implant factory. 

237 responses to “Perversion of the Tech of Ethics

  1. But the course is only $1,500.00 so imagine how many In Good Standing Scientologists will go.

    There is an ulterior motive behind it.

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.

  2. They want recruits for the Super Power building and this is how they will get them, this course for $1,500.00. That is their ulterior motive.

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.


    Well; i must correct some impressions, wich lead you away from the view point acutall; if me I say: – Those conventions are DIV6A for the Ship, wich means they made a survey or they found the GI and RAW stats from the Ship on collapse, and the “common button to send away the registrar” is : oh ! I dont have money to go up on my Bridge : ( “. Therefore is not only the point about saying what Ethics SHOULD be “as is complete a stupid Idea to tell how ethics should be as is personal and everybody else i¡s different”. Creating a standard way to behave about ethics will actually lead Scientology to become what LRH said on Clearing Congress: “Psycologists, they feel you need to wear their only 1 and ugly uniform” … So…. not only the basic line is they are way more behind the point of reaching their original point about what it should be good service to people, they are actually promoting the conventions wich they make every single year to drive new pulbic in to the Ship, make them to think the same as they do about what an Ideal Public SHOULD BE…. and be back at their own Orgs where…. btw….. they wont have any service as the problem is not at the public wich is not recieving service, the problem is Managment and is not the public. This kind of thinking is way more beyond brainwashing, is more like IF YOU DONT THINK YOU WILL GO ON THE BRIDGE NOW (because we make you come all day long and you dont work, you are no longer with your relatives, you paid untill every single penny to my pocket). YOU NEED TO LEARN ETHICS AND FINANCE….. I wish they would lisent their own congreses about that and actually PAY STAFF, PAY THE BILLS ON EVERY LITTLE ORG instead letting all the people inside there to be hungry and with a missery of payroll. VERY IRONIC….

  4. Independent Scientologist

    What’s amazing is that most interesting, incredible take on KSW I’ve ever experienced was with Sharon Weber – she takes the bulletin and parses it paragraph-by-paragraph and word-by-word. It bolstered my understanding to the point where I could really THINK with KSW. Sad to see that she’s become nothing more than a shill for DM. And that she probably violates KSW countless times each day.

    Ron Matlock

  5. Maybe they heard of the successes coming out of the ethics program which is available outside the cos and are trying to achieve the same, lol.

    Of course, what is available inside cos and outside are on different ends of the spectrum. The “tech” inside cos is not only squirrel, but is rarely approached anyway as they are too busy abusing ethics – which is also squirreled within the cos.

    Gotta love how they teach you to evaluate the condition for another. And, how the end result is increased prosperity for “yourself” and others.

    With all the documented abuse, crush-regging, inval, eval, etc. that is currently happening with scn public – you’d have to be an idiot to pay to set yourself up on a self contained floating vehicle surrounded by SO and their ethics.

  6. Freedom Fighter

    Sounds rather Gestapo-like to me:

    1.The German internal security police as organized under the Nazi regime, known for its terrorist methods directed against those suspected of treason or questionable loyalty.

  7. I have nothing more to say on this other than, agreed.

    Beingness? You better not BE, unless THEY approve.


  8. The picture of Ron looks like being photoshopped to look more “ethics present”.
    By the way, I had been EO in the hot time mid 80. My “how I should be an EO” had been quite different from what I think they think an EO should be.
    My “policy one” had been that the person in front of me has full power to decide what he wants to do. If he leaves or stay on board. If he wants to take service or not.
    I would like to lecture there on the freewinds. That would be big fun.

  9. becomingAware

    One thing they forgot to mention is that you will receive personal drilling on your ethics until passed by an IAS registrar.

  10. Watching Eyes

    Isn’t that Sharon in the picture? Really, they should feed their staff BEFORE calling in the photographer. She looks positively anorexic.

  11. This is outright scary!
    Through GAT drills you will learn how to deliver Conditions by dynamics and Exchange by dynamics?
    $1500 implant on the high seas…trapped on a boat under lock and key…there’s sooooo much wrong with this picture!
    This is NOT LRH’s Scientology at all!

  12. Dan was right. One thing that became very obvious to me is that Miscavige does not like people. He thinks that all (or most) are extremely incompetent and inferior.

    This is the major reason he started down the “Idle Org” path — he wanted to create an organization that no shitty staff member could mess up. He wanted the Div 6 to be fully animated with a series of videos that explains everything “professionally”, so they didn’t end up with “dumb-asses” trying to disseminate who didn’t know what they were talking about. He actually said this in my presence. He wanted the reg films covering each service so the registrars weren’t responsible for anything besides turning on the video and collecting the money. He was working on admin training when I left and will probably have “GAT” drills for admin too, so staff and executives could carry out the “right” handling for any given situation, without thinking.

    His ideal scene would be a bunch of robots who just executed their orders without deviation to get in new public who pay, pay, pay for their services — or not even for services, who DONATE, DONATE, DONATE for the concept that the organization would in some way help someone.

    Sorry – I am actually in a good mood today, but this just reminded me of what a sham the Scientology organization has become.

  13. You know, I’ve been wanting to go on a cruise and $1500 for a week which included a course and materials and food…that’s a great price and a bargain and would be exciting and fab…if only it was standard LRH…sigh.

  14. Scott Campbell

    Captain Conscience putting in ethics on the crew:

    Captain: (glowering and pacing back and forth in front of the crew in disgust): “Youuuu, you filthy maggots. How come-a you don’t love me anymore?”

    Crew: (cowering)

    Captain: “How come-a you don’t lick-a my boots like you used to?” (crew member scrambles to lick Captains boots)

    Captain: (kicking crew member away) “Bah! It is too late now. I see that you’re ethics have failed. I shall have to put-a your ethics in for you. You cannot-a be trusted with even your own ethics! I shall have to make an example of-a one of you.”

    Crew: (shrinks back from Captain’s withering gaze)

    Captain: (pointing to crew member) “You, come here.”

    Crew Member: (rushes forward to stand in front of the Captain) “Y-y-y-yess Sir!”

    Captain: “Kneel-a down.”

    Crew Member: (kneels down in front of Captain, closes eyes and opens mouth)

    Captain: “Not that, you idiot! (bends over and whispers to Crew Member: ‘maybe later, in my cabin’)

    Captain: (to kneeling Crew Member and assembled Crew) “Now, I’m-a gonna’ teach-a you a lesson. Bosun! ‘and me the Cat!” (reaches over and grabs proffered item from Bosun without looking at it)

    Captain: (Swings cat over his head, looking down at kneeling crew member)

    Cat: “Reowwwrrrr!”

    Captain: (discarding cat) “Not that cat, you fool! The Cat-of-Nine-Tails!”

    Bosun: “Sorry Sir!” (hands captain correct whip this time)

    Captain: “Now I shall put-a your ethics in!” (flogs Crew Member with whip)

    Captain: (standing over Crew Member, out of breath) “Bosun! Bring me something to drink! All of this-a work is-a making me thirsty.”

    Bosun: “Yessir!” (offers bottle of rum to captain)

    Captain: (takes drink, looks disgusted and spits it out into the Bosun’s face) “What is this stinking, anemic dog piss?!? Bring me something stronger!”

    Bosun: “Yessir!” (rushes off)

    Captain: (calling after Bosun over the heads of the cowering crew)
    “Battery Acid will do…”

  15. “you live in an aberrated world that’s insane and without this knowledge you could remain too enturbulated to realize your goals and bring them into the physical universe as products”

    This is an great example of the Church covertly (or not so covertly) creating a dangerous environment & “brainwashing” the parishoners into thinking that they can’t survive without the Church. For years that kind of statement was pounded into me through promo, events, interviews, … Scientology as undoubtedly many tools to improve & live a better life. But to think that we live in an insane dangerous world & that one can’t operate unless he’s part of the “official” group shows a lack of ability to confront & observe society to say the lease. There are many evils but there are also many, many more good IMHO.

    Another interesting thing I noticed in this promo is something that came up in a recent discussion with some of my Indy/Outy friends. In the LRH quote he mentions twice a being can learn/put “his own ethics in”. But in the other text a lot of emphasis is put on “how to get ethics in on others”. That is something I’ve heard from many in my years in the Church “put his ethics in”/”I will put your ehtics in”. Does anyone know of an LRH reference that says that? Please let me know if you do because that seems to me to be a well accepted alteration of what LRH says.

    Although I’m always interested in what LRH as to say about it, whether he says it (“put someone else ehtics in”) or not my reality is that that becomes justice & ethics to be most efficient should be a personal thing. Not something that someone inforces on you. That is a senior datum for me.

    Marty thanks for continuing to bring up the truth & things for us to inspect & evaluate in a new unit of time.


  16. This is spot on. This is what happens when one stays in the Sea Org too long as well… totally lost touch with real people, real life.. everyone ‘outside’ of the group are DBs and can’t be trusted, sorta creates an SP valence that there all ‘out to get us’ ‘can’t be trusted’ etc. It’s his natural progression to ‘handle’ the scene. I heard LRH in the 70s went around in an RV touring the U.S. to get back in touch with the current scene of the populace, of course he was horrified at what he found, it wasn’t the same country of the 50’s.

  17. I visited the ship at the end of 1996. For me, it was a very special time. Granted, I was out-int and sick most of the time, but I met some great people there. I also heard the most complaining about reg cycles from hell, paying too much money to the IAS being an overt, etc. The OT environment of the ship is mostly created by the passengers, not the crew. So, independents could create the same or better OT environment on dry land. I don’t need flashy MEST, just lots of able, loving people moving on up to OT.

  18. Putting ethics in on others is risky business. Unless one is really benevolent, awake and wise – it becomes squashing the person near you to ensure you stay on the top of the heap and he stays beneath you.

    This has been the lot of man for almost forever. Make sure there is someone lower on the totem pole than you are. That way you never need look at yourself. Of course with this ethics course you can always feel justified in ratting out your friend because you are putting ethics in … Rather then taking the time and care to work with and communicate to a fellow being.

    And BTW how come England recognizes Druidry (Druids) as a religion as of a few days ago and consistently denies dmology as a religion? He’s had decades to work with this in the UK, instead just continues to prove to the world how uncaring dmology is.

    Now with a worldwide cadre of mis-trained ethics officers (think internal police force) it can only get worse and continue downhill.

    And while I’m ranting let me add that I just saw a “Source” mag (Flags) and didn’t see One staff member from the sandcastle that I recognized – I once knew them all – the attrition is staggering! And telling.

    Rant over


  19. Your humble servant

    The Freewinds has been doing these conventions from time to time for some time off (and possibly on) the ship. I paid $400 for an Ethics Convention led by Sharron Webber in LA some years ago. I don’t recall if Finance was part of the promotion then. She put on quite an enthusiastic show the first day, but I grew tired of her theatrics and didn’t even attend the 2d day. One small annoying factor was that she had us do “practical drills” on various things for just a couple of minutes or so, which I felt was not nearly enough drilling on anything to do anyone any good.

    One thing that the Freewinds will not tell you if you are a prospect is that they will ask you some questions to pre-qualify you for going to the Freewinds, and then, if you seem to qualify, they will take your money and arrange your trip for you and congratulate you on going. However, some time after that someone on the ship will read your ethics folder and if he or she decides you are not squeaky-clean enough ethics-wise to go to the Freewinds (according to their standards or fixed ideas), they will have no qualms about calling you up a few hours before your scheduled departure and telling you not to come after all. If they do that they will not apologize or offer to refund your money either, but they may leave open the possibility of your coming later if you complete an “ethics program” of their devising.

    I believe that Carol Miles, who used to be featured prominently on Freewinds promotions, is not on the ship any more, which possibly has to do with her disagreement with such practices.

    Another point regarding this promo is that they have here again purported to quote LRH without stating the source of the quotation. I believe the site Friends of LRH pointed out that the Church has been doing this more and more and that to do so is against LRH policy.

  20. Is it just me or does the ship look like its back-end is sinking underneath all the weight of the money it’s trying to stockpile?

    C’mon guys, I know Jeff Hawkins has left the church and taken his promo/marketing capabilities with him, leaving behind a huge void, but you really do need to train your current Photoshop drones a little bit better if you want to impress people into giving up their life savings to learn tech that is supposed to be free!


  21. Amy, Big HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! Love, Sarge

  22. The contact number is (800) OTDEBUG?

    Says it all.

    Such an eerie promo piece – a sort of “no-ARC” image of LRH…..and a photo of a kind of goofy-looking person gesturing at a whiteboard, who looks slightly ill.


  23. “The church of Scientology is dead. In its place lies an implant factory.”

    Wow Marty, that’s a radical and bold statement. Do you realize the full implications of that statement?

    My God, how on earth did this happen?

    L. Ron Hubbard founded the church of scientology for the purpose of reversing the effects of implants not to become an implant station.

    Over the years the church of scientology make great efforts to infiltrate enemy organizations, apparently all the while, being infiltrated itself.

    Don’t think for one moment that the source of that can only be from this world. Anyone who knows a little more about what is going on knows what I’m talking about. Who have the most to gain by the church of scientology becoming an implant factory? Remember, there’s a big universe out there, bigger than you imagine and maybe even bigger than you can imagine.

  24. Davey is totally gone himself, thus he makes robots and video to take over the lines. He set up splinter groups like RTC and IAS with stolen Church money, thus he rips off its financers. These entities came about through forged signatures, thus he falsifies his stats. Davey is not a plant but he is surely whishing his case off on someone! He was kicked out off the CL IV internship, thus he introduced a 3 swing F/N and video on all internships, preventing anyone to complete. He is guilty of High Crimes as an auditor in Saint Hill, thus he declared all Saint Hill staff. He was put on steroids, thus he rants against all drugs. Having his anchor points forced in by drugs, he’s obsessively forcing everybody else’s anchor points in. He can’t get auditing because of drugs, thus he makes all staff redo the purif (for 7 months in a row). He can’t go Clear, thus he declears all Clears. He can’t go OT, thus he makes all OT’s redo the levels. He can’t get auditing, thus he ensures no staff to be sessionable through starvation and sleep deprivation. He can’t make case gain, thus he locks up his folders and completely alters Tech so no one can. He has prematurely seen OT materials that restimulate the hell out of him and because copper rods don’t help the materials are now available all over the internet for anyone. He is sick and obsessed with his penis, thus he declares his wife, prevents babies and breaks marriages and families. Having committed many overts on many people, now everybody is against him. Guilty of many High Crimes himself, he sec checks everybody on thoughts about High Crimes. To protect himself, he prevents Comm Evs, intercepts KR’s and declares every upstat Mission Holder, Auditor, CMO terminal and anyone speaking out. Due to the extremely valuable posts on this site, a tremendous job of 3D auditing, understanding keeps moving on up a little higher every day. Thanks guys!

  25. That is kind of funny…“…receive personal drilling on your ethics until passed by an IAS registrar.”

    Exchange by Dynamics must be a real booger-bear if a person looks at what the IAS actually contributes towards the society in juxtaposition with “How can I use my 50 grand to benefit society?”

  26. DM told a friend of mine on the ship in 88-89, “The Class IV Orgs are DUMPS!”

    It was like hearing Colonel Sanders say “I would never be caught DEAD in a Kentucky Fried Chicken joint”.

    OK – sure – Orgs were full of cigarette smoke, chronically out of toilet paper, seldom cleaned, furniture beat-up, training tables sometimes FILTHY, but hey! You’re the boss! DO something about it.

  27. “You live in an abberated world that’s insane and without this knowledge, you could remain too enturbulated to realize your goals and bring them into the physical universe as products.”

    This premise describes the world of the church these days, better than the world at large, at least my corner of it…

  28. Nice to see you posting here good sir.

  29. Amy, I love your posts. Great to see you back with Marty at the gates of hell. I hope you are doing well and I aprecïate you even going to Hamburg to spread the word. I wish you and your family well.


  30. Pingback: Perversion of the Tech of Ethics | Moving On Up a Little Higher « Ethics Find

  31. Kathy Braceland


  32. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, but it is all answered by the dichotomies, which are observable, in the universe we all are capable – right now – of perceiving. Keep your eye on the ball. Base hits win ball games.

  33. Mr. Wollersheim I presume ?

  34. You are highly mistaken on the RTC
    “”RTC received…trademarks… subject to an additional “Option Agreement” between Hubbard, RTC and CST. In two so-called “Option Agreements” from May 1982, Hubbard granted CST the right to purchase at any time from RTC the “Marks”, the “Advanced Technology” and all the rights to them for the sum of $ 100″ from (1)”Option Agreement (Marks)”, Notarized Agreement between L. Ron Hubbard and the Church of Spiritual Technology, County of Los Angeles, California, May 10th, 1982/July 9th, 1982 and (2) Option Agreement (Advanced Technology-U.S.) – Notarized Agreement between L. Ron Hubbard and the Church of Spiritual Technology, California, May 10th & July 9th, 1982″

    You should alsoo look up the posts Larry Brennan made on this blog.

  35. FUBAR. The church of Scientology is dead, yes, and now it seems rotting in place.

  36. Independent Scientologist

    That was a stunning summation! Thank you!

    Ron Matlock

  37. “He wrote of Miscavige’s mission to create the “ideal Sea Org member” in every one (feel free to post the link, I am sure it is on”

    It’s netiquette to actually post the link when you make a reference. I know you like to be professional in your dealings, so in the future, I suggest you post the links to what you are referencing and not expect your readers to do that work for you. No need to post this, I just wanted you to know that it’s really out net manners to do this and figured you’d want to know.


  38. Oh sh.. You are on to us Marka….erm Anons

  39. Scott Campbell

    Fuckin’ Hi-larious man!

  40. Amy:

    I know a lot of hard work went into them but those videos are terrible and it is unlikely that anbody that watches even one of them would march right down to the registrar smiling seeing how much money is in their pocket to give.

    And the staff don’t really believe the videos work either I think.

    One time a few years ago, a mission opened about 1 mile from my house, and the mission holder called me and said “Why don’t you come by and there is an open house here and see the place…? So I went. I watched one of these videos. It was terrible. The dialog ran something like this:

    Scientologist 1: Hi.
    Scientologist 2: Hi.
    Scientologist 1: I just got some auditing.
    Scientologist 2: That’s wonderful.
    Scientologist 1: I feel great now.
    Scietnologist 2: Thank you.

    And on and on for 20 minutes. There is such a thing as TR’s Amy, but not 20 minutes of complimentary TR 2. I actually got turned off the moment I heard the music in the background that came with the video. It was so unrelated to what the video was supposed to be about. So I picked up a magazine and was just glancing at the video every so often. The mission holder came up to me and yelled at me, that if I didn’t want to watch the video then I should get out because he doesn’t need me there. And I was a guest there that evening a potential customer. It would have done no good to have told him “I have already seen this video at Flag about 4 times…”.

    The only way to get results is to get them.

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.

  41. Motto of DM inspired CoM Ethics Officers:

    “The floggings will continue until morale improves.”

  42. Scott Campbell

    Tech dictionary definitions for Ethics.

    5. “When one is ethical or “has his ethics in” it is by his own determination and is done by himself.” (HCOB 15 Nov 1972)

    6. “that which is enforced by oneself, his belief in his own honor, and good reason, and optimum solution along the eight dynamics.” (PDC 37)


  43. I agree. I saw a picture from Source magazine once, taken in the courtyard of the Fort Harrison with Debbie Cook in the front. I honestly declare that every single Sea Org member standing behind her appeared anemic in the picture {but not necessarily anorexic}. With the anorexic folk you can see all their bone structures and joints more because there is so little fat if any anywhere on their bodies. Maybe the ones you saw had just come out of the Purif! {LOL}

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.

  44. Thought Provoking

    Dear Kevin,

    I just saw the flier on your upcoming event. It found it simply unbelievable!

    In the first paragraph, ” You live in an aberated world that is insane…” Yes, this is true, even in an environment that should be sane, thanks to DM!

    Further down, “You will be hatted on the conditions from confusion up and drilled on standard application.” WOW, I can’t imagine how this could be done since the ship hasn’t practiced standard application of ethics in a long time. I’m sure there are many public and SO staff who can validate this statement.

    Then, just to show how standard this all is, “Through the use of Golden Age of Tech drills…” You must be kidding, these are so off policy. You need to go to cramming!

    And to wrap it up, “Find out what it is that cuts across your prosperity and ability to succeed in life.” That was an easy one. All I had to do was walk away from the church that was at one point the caretaker of the tech, a wonderfully fabulous tech, indeed. You see, DM had corrupted it so much that it no longer produced results. The church has for quite some time, tried to pass its cubic zirconian squirrel tech off as the blue white diamond that LRH left as his legacy. And by using standard ethics, not only did I discover this fraud but I communicated it to every one I knew. Actually, it is my way of putting in ethics on the church environment. I no longer have to pretend and I am free to practice genuine Scientology tech without fear of reprisal. So, I’m doing fine on this and my dymanics are flourishig SO, I think I’ll pass on this seminar!!


    p.s. When is the last time you did an honest to goodness doubt formula where you actually could examine the intentions of the church? Doing so, might just change your life…for the better.

  45. Thought Provoking

    When you spell it out that way, my first thought was…the over doth speak loudly.

  46. Thought Provoking

    Very telling. Thank you, Amy!

  47. Erwin, that was a super succinct, accurate sum-up without misemotional fanfare right there! Hoop, there it is!

  48. Thought Provoking

    Sadly, the ship has fallen under the control of DM. When the ship was new, it was a totally different ballgame. It was the first time I had ever seen condition four exchange. I didn’t want to leave and had I been qualified, I would have joined the SO just to work on the ship.

    Not being qualified had actually been to my benefit…in the long run. :9

  49. Hallo Amy,
    the picture you paint here is exactly the same thing I have to confront now in my wog job. The company that I work for does exactly that. The mechanics have a color code on their tools that they do not choose the wrong tool. Even in computing they do the same. They insist that you as a computer service man not your expertise or know how but to use “common solutions”. This is called in the wog world “descilling”. Miscavige is late with that. This procedure is used in non Scn companies since many years. At least US run companies like that I am working for.

  50. Thought Provoking

    Actually, it looked like they photoshoped the removal of all staff that was commonly seen surrounding the deck.

  51. one of those who see

    “You better not BE, unless THEY approve. ” Nails situation perfectly, Centurion. I think this is the crux of what is VERY wrong with the Church. And is ofcourse, reverse Scientology. I got into Scientology because I wanted more freedom. Real Scientology delivers.

  52. The man who didn’t shoot Hitler

    March 12, 2007 — Gary Smailes

    It would have been easy for Private Tandey to shoot; after all he had been killing Germans all day. However, as the enemy solider limped from the smoke into his gun sights, the British infantry man held his fire. The German was clearly wounded and though Tandey took aim, he was unable to shoot. The wounded man nodded his thanks and disappeared back into the gloom.

    The incident was over in a flash and though the German would never forget the kindness, Henry Tandey would not recall the events for another twenty years.

    The fighting of the 28 September 1918, around the French village of Marcoing, had been exceptionally heavy. Henry Tandey had single-handedly destroyed a German machine gun nest, braved enemy gunfire to bridge a huge hole that was halting British attacks and led a bayonet charge against a far larger force. He was by all accounts a hero.

    Tandey was later awarded the VC for his exploits and immortalised in a painting by the Italian artist Fortunio Matania. He left the army in 1926 and lived out a quite life in Leamington, England.

    Henry Tandey

    In 1938 war was brewing in Europe. In a last ditch effort to avoid conflict, the British Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, visited Adolf Hitler in Germany. During the talks Hitler invited Chamberlain to his retreat in Berchtesgaden in Bavaria. The hideout was lavishly decorated with many German works of art. However, one painting stood out, a copy of Fortunio Matania’s depiction of Private Tandey.

    When Chamberlain questioned Hitler over the painting of the British soldiers, the dictator pointed at the picture and explained:

    ‘that man came so near to killing me that I thought I should never see Germany again, providence saved me from such devilishly accurate fire as those English boys were aiming at us.’

    Hitler then asked Chamberlain to pass on his thanks to Private Tandey.

    On returning to England, Chamberlain contacted Tandey and recounted his conversation with Hitler. At the time Tandey was nonchalant about his wartime restraint. However, as the Second World War sparked into life across the globe his feeling changed. He twice narrowly escaped death during German bombing raids in Coventry and London, and would later tell a journalist:

    ‘If only I had known what he would turn out to be. When I saw all the people and woman and children he had killed and wounded I was sorry to God I let him go.’

    BTW – World War 1 officially ends, October 3, 2010. I kid you not.

  53. Tara,

    That is exactly what the person reading about this “Cruise Package” will think.

    It is a sneaky way of getting less affluent Scientologists to join the Sea Org to staff the new Super Power building from the ship.

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.

  54. one of those who see

    Amy, thank for this very important data. Love that you actually heard him say:”He wanted the Div 6 to be fully animated with a series of videos that explains everything “professionally”, so they didn’t end up with “dumb-asses” trying to disseminate who didn’t know what they were talking about.”

    And of course the correct direction – if you really wanted to help people to move up the line – would be to increase their level of responsibility. And here he is actively removing responsiblity from staff. More proof of reverse Scientology.

    LRH thought highly of people. He saw us as OTs. DM sees the opposite.

  55. Joe Pendleton

    With PR in the toilet and very few new people coming in, the church has to charge the folks already in to do the same stuff we used to get for free (go to ethics, study these materials, etc) to keep the moolah rolling in. Yeah, “only” $1,500……… airfare, and the money that will be extorted from you by an endless series of reges…..and you’re on a freakin’ SHIP in another COUNTRY (with your passport in someone else’s hands), so it’s not like you can just leave the building and drive to Pasadena. This won’t end until the money dries up. So, I expect X number of people to go and lose their money. Hey, people keep going to Indian casinos and flushing their money down the “video slots.” Some people take it all in on money racket and the other half coughs it up. It only changes for individuals when they……WHAT?….apply conditions to their own lives. LRH once said that ethics was what one applied to oneself (but that was too simple for him to stick to and of course if that was true, he couldn’t enforce ethics on others on the Apollo – hey, that wouldn’t be any fun when you are the Supreme Leader).

    As long as the suckers cough up the dough, the casino will still be open.

    My advice to anyone considering going to this – add up all the charges, and take the same amount of money and spend a couple of weeks in Italy – especially go to Venice, but it’s all good…..your tone level will rise and you will be wiser and probably wealthier too. It’s not actually as complicated as all “the executives on the Freewinds” will make it.

  56. Stop Altering The Tech!

    I’ve been to the ship many times and always had a good time until my last visit and the one before. I think Erwin Croughs nailed it!

  57. one of those who see

    Notice that in The Breakthrough of Scientology Quote by LRH, it’s all about learning the ethics tech and applying it to one’s self to improve one’s life. Beautiful.
    Then, in the Church’s first paragraph under “Data you will learn”- they are turning everyone into Ethics Officers who will get ethics in on others! And these people are being trained by the Sea Org Members. If they show up at your door- don’t open the door!
    Friend of mine recently had the Ethics cycle from hell from a Sea Org MAA. Amazing she survived it.

  58. Scott~That’s what I’m afraid of…

  59. Yes, an implant factory. One thing I noticed is that the “training” is not in the standard scientology format, a check sheet, materials, and a course supervisor. It seems to instead be an “authority” lecturing, with impermanent materials, a whiteboard.

    One of the very cool things about scientology is the direct comm line to LRH via his materials, books, tapes, etc. When an authority lectures this takes the place of or becomes source.

    When authority replaces personal observation in the search for knowledge, the path to implanting has been started. And implanting can be much more subtle than the space opera notions we hear more about. Any perceptions we accept uninspected are or can be implants.

    And ethics moved off of self determinism certainly is a nasty means of control.

  60. Marty, I am glad you posted this. I am still on their email list and so I got this last week.

    The part that really impinged on me was where it says:

    You live in an aberrated world that’s insane and without this knowledge you could remain too enturbulated to realize your goals and bring them into the physical universe as products.

    What a crock of BS. The sad part is that I think the “outside world” is more sane than the inside world of the church. More like…IF YOU STAY IN THE CHURCH you WILL remain too enturbulated to realize your goals and bring them into the physical universe as products!!!

    It’s ust more of the propaganda that Miscavaige uses to scare people from leaving the church and to create that false sense of safety that only a cult can provide. It’s really disgusting and pathetic how they keep stooping lower and lower.

  61. Good one!

  62. Jean-François Genest

    Ouch! Yucky!
    If this promo was surveyed BEFORE production, then Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! Plus, the LRH quote has a typo in it. The Church of Tom-Cruiseology at its best!

    I’m rubbing my hands together with joy (…and malice aforethought…)
    I am definitely GOING on that cruise. Mmmm! That’s where the IAS HQ $taff live, poshly “rewarded” for their “hard” work. Ken Pirak and friend$. Mmmm. I hope for them that they can swim… 🙂

    Speaking of dichotomies, please tune in at time = 6:14 in the clip below:

  63. Your humble servant

    “You live in an aberrated world that’s insane and without this knowledge you could remain too enturbulated to realize your goals and bring them into the physical universe as products.”

    Good point, Jamie. Actually, this paragraph is not very intelligible. Which is it? Is the world aberrated, or is it insane ? (Two different things). And just because the world is aberrated or insane, does that imply that I am enturbulated? Also, my goals are not potential products. Goals and products are two different things. I think the ad composers were under some stress. I am afraid this is another false promise. We know that the Church of Miscaving has been suppressively applying an altered understanding of “ethics” for a very long time. Thus is it WAY out-ethics. One is not going to get more ethical by attending this convention.

  64. Spooky! This obsession on ethics is sooo weird. The scientologists I know are very fine people and if something, they need to losen up a bit.

  65. Even if the attendees of this convention were to learn standard ethics tech and finance policy, they will immediately be told by registrars that it doesn’t apply to their personal finances. You can throw LRH financial policy out the window when the crush-selling regges (vultures) from the IAS, SuperPower, Idle Orgs, etc. show up at the front door of their house at 3 AM. “We need your money like never before; we’re getting attacked from all sides by the psychs, Big Pharma and SPs.” Yeah right, scientology creates their own enemies.

  66. It seems the angle on this promotion is to use ethics to optimum survival across your dynamics, and prosperity. Whaaaat? This is not the LRH stated purpose of ethics.

    It’s been a while, but I recall that the purpose of ethics was to get tech in. Period. And, one only carried ethics to the point where technical was in – no further.

  67. OMG!

    Think about it…..would you really want to :

    (1) go to an Ethics/Finance course promoted by a possible Sadist (does he fit the definition? you decide)
    (2) on a ship in “international waters” (no bothersome police with jurisdiction to investigate what actually happened)
    (3) put on by an organization that is desperate for money, and whose brutality has been compared to the mafia?
    (4) where “overboarding” is a common practice for ethics infractions
    (5) in shark infested waters.
    (6) and where saying “no” to any request, may mean a very long swim back home.


  68. HOW did I miss this compelling, heartbreaking story of a 2nd generation scientologist? Tiziano Luigi?

    And, it went right over my head when Marty mentioned he and Mosey woke up to Tiziano singing recently.

    I knew his uncle who returned to the base – in a wheelchair having suffered a massive stroke after OTVIII.

    This story takes some time to read. But it’s worth every moment. Then check out the links on Tiziano’s and Jamie’s respective sites.

    My burning question — is Keith Code out? He’s one of the links on Tiziano’s site.

    We were friends, once.

    Sorry to go off on a tangent BUT to me this is quite huge.

    It’s been one of those days.


  69. spot on.

    thank you 🙂

  70. Scratch my burning question on Keith.

    Found Judy’s page and nearly all her friends are IN. I miss many of them.



  71. Tara,
    I guess it’s not wanted that those drills be called GAE drills… 😉 Which they are probably best named – golden age of ethics.

  72. Leland Conrad Powers

    Apollo Medical Officer Jim Dincalci once stated he believed Hubbards ideal scene to be one which resembled Doll Bodies. I won’t explain what a Doll Body is unless people here have never heard the term. How does this vision conflict with that of David Miscavige?

  73. They have found lost Ethics Tech: To give all your money away to charity(IAS) and to live in poverty(SO)

  74. WH,
    You bring up an interesting point – I don’t understand why so many “Ethics Officers” are needed – is it because these cats, those actually posted as MAAs and Ethics officers in Mestology have changed to regges selling indulgences? It just seems some kind of a weird evaluation/shotgun C/S that their public needs to apply Ethics in order to resolve their Finances or something of that nature.

    The cruise pricing seems to be a carrot of sorts, perhaps the stick is a bunch of IAS and Ship service vultures as one would be captive audience, without passports for a week? Then again, perhaps there is a “sale” on with rock bottom prices due to desperation. It’s known that the Freewinds can’t survive with just the delivery of OT8 and needs to have conventions, OT debugs, and hatting courses or whatever business that can be drummed up to fill their cabins. What with the idle orgs being empty, Flag having to deliver grades, imagine what kind of a Bridge flow there is for the Freewinds? How many OT 7s are being made ready for their next step?
    Sharon Weber looks like she’s been on rice and beans for a while.

  75. IO,
    The photoshop looks really strange and along with the weird design in the sky just does not fly and is just downright distracting, making no sense whatsoever.

    Perhaps there’s also been attrition to their marketing personnel on the ship as what happens at Int (getting rid of most marketing people) usually happens elsewhere later.

  76. Brilliant!

  77. LRH thought highly of people. He saw us as OTs. DM sees the opposite.

    That is so true. LRH trusted people to a fault.

  78. Your humble servant


    I think you are right that D_M doesn’t like people. In fact he hates them, hates life, hates sex, hates everything, I guess, except maybe scotch, money, and power. He wasn’t really trying to create orgs that no staff member could mess up, but has been fully intending to destroy orgs along with staff and public, in my humble evaluation.
    Recently, I overheard a young man at work telling someone he had dropped in on Scientology somewhere and, shaking his head and laughing derisively, he was saying “What a bunch of crazy people.”
    So, I guess D_M’s automated Div 6 is very effective as he intended–in destroying orgs and giving the subject a very bad name.

  79. That is great! Coffee is for Closers! Other perks? Maybe not so much.

  80. I think it is interesting that Marty calls the Church an implant station. When Capt Bill left, he sent large packages of all the NOTS materials to the orgs and it included a “top secret” “highly confidential” HCOB that was likely penned by himself but signed L. RON HUBBARD. It was simple and stated that “Dianetics and Scientology was the Supreme Implant. I believe it was titled “The Supreme Implant”. Capt Bill was an interesting dichotomy himself. Crazy as a loon on the one hand, yet he was very precise when it came to MEST and that included his sailing ability. That is only strange history and just a comment but a reliable friend I know who worked very close with LRH told me an interesting story about the FSO that occurred in the late eighties, perhaps the early nineties. A friend of hers who FSO public was off lines but came in for a “free session”. She reportedly was not a fruit cake and came out of the session with virtually no memory of what had happened inside. She remembered multiple people in the session. I forget the details but it was basically a story that she was implanted. This is only one report. I would think that Marty, assuming he was on those lines, might dismiss this because it understandly might sound absurd. It does not sound absurd to me but then I was not around and distance breeds contempt sometimes. Another blown staff member told me the Super Power Building was being designed as an implant station as well. He talked about the contracts with NASA and what not and strange liaison with the government. I only offer these as reports and data in wonder and perhaps hope that someone might add another thread. This board reminds of the characters in Fahrenheit 451 who preserve the written memory of books. Marty…might I suggest a title for your book: Fahrenheit 8-8008 !!

  81. So this is the Church acting as Merchants of Chaos, convincing you it’s a dangerous environment so you will cough up money. For an Ethics course, yet. How’s that for irony? It’s no wonder Miscarriage had the Merchants of Chaos reference taken out of the new Ethics book. It would have just confused people.

  82. Watching Eyes

    I bet that if Sharon wasn’t covered by an ill-fitting suit you would see bones sticking out. Ever notice how starving people get an androgynous look to them? She’s got that look.

    def: Androgynous — Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.

  83. Erwin,
    interesting post regarding DM. Where did you get this information, especially the part about DM being given steroids?! I know his actions stem from his own case/overts etc., as the nature of sp goes…but I would like to know the specifics about his auditing and training and the fact that he declared his wife.

    RE: Freewinds
    I brought someone to the Freewinds and the bottom line is the person still needed some pts handling but we had debugged things enough in his life that he had some money for auditing which was set up at the Org,(but not yet paid as there wasn’t time before the trip). The trip to the Freewinds was supposed to have been a vacation and to attend some seminars. The ot ,class 12 c/s Reg was pushing my selectee to do a debug. I said he didn’t need one although he still needed some pts handling but he was going into auditing the day after the “vacation”. He said, ‘we don’t handle any ptsness or such on the de bug”. I said that the guy is ready to go in session and his folder is c/sed and this will be the first time in 15 years! I think he is debugged enough to pull in the money and get himself the session. Besides, I have done the course and you simply can’t take out a section of the LRH debug checklist and state that it doesn’t apply. I aruged for two days about the fact that up is up, by definition , and if a guy is debugged enough to pull in the cash and get audited, what the hell else does one need to debugg before the guy goes into session to get to the meat of it all anyway. My debug was invalidated (covertly)as I couldn’t possibly get a product (already did) as good as the Freedwinds. The Reg talked about being “hyper” from being on watch all night and eating chocolate cake”. He wouldn’t let up on the debug. The end result: my selectee choose to listen to the class 12 c/s Registrar and buy a debugg and give the rest of the money to the groveling IAS regg. He never got the auditing. Well done Flag Ship. The reg was right. I would never get a product like that!Then, I was also told that fsm commissions don’t apply to spouses or family, even when the person was brought back in on lines and was able to pay for service prior to being “family”. I spent time arguing the definition of “cross” or ‘cross over” and they even had a meeting about the correct way to read the FSM policy! Of course, I was told that “they” decided that “my definition”was incorrect and “I wouldn’t want to go against LRh policy now would I?”…all said in a condecending tone. The wonderful cycle took so much longer than ten days and this person had to borrow money to go home. It gets worse….once home, and back on to the course he was already on before going to the Ship (of Fools), they called to make sure he was on course…which then they took full credit as though he was a product! His business actually crashed that same year. And here I thought I was going to the Mecca of Tech. I realized then that a Bozo in a SO Uniform who is a all knowing class 12 c/s had nothing on me regarding reading and duplicating tech and if his bragg about being the highest trained person, along with one other guy,was the best the Freewinds had to offer, then I had lost the last bit of hope that the Church may actually know what the hell it was doing.
    The money I paid out on that useless adventure where I argued with the class 12 c/s /reg…Scott, for two days about the word “debug” made me confront the fact that even the ‘trained” and “ot” people don’t give a crap about the individual, only the money…..I have to say, the Chaplin told my selectee to stay as long as he needed and not to worry about the Treas Sec hounding him for money. He said that he needed to be a product and the rest could be paid in installments. So, in all fairness, one shinning light in the midst of corruption.

  84. Nice Photoshop. Looks like the Freewinds is coming straight out of the ocean. I never would have given that IA.

  85. DFB aka Dfb99

    I’ve been to a few such seminars including this one. She does a great job, very entertaining. Her interpretations of LRH writings are interesting, and if you have MU’s in or havent studied the materials she covers, her verbal tech sounds pretty good. Who knows, she may be pretty close to what LRH was intenting to communicate in these references. I guess thats pretty darn good. Imagine- for a small fee you can have an expert explain to you what these key LRH references really mean. Quite the bargain.
    Then you will have the TECH to get your ethics in and do your duty as a Scientologist- make more money to give to the IAS.

  86. No Sinar, I don’t think Golden Age of Ethics drills would bring many takers. 😆
    Being a Grad V auditor who then experienced the GAT meter course….well….applying THAT to Condits/Exchange by Dyns…holy terrorization Batman!

  87. Funny, reminds me of Orwell’s 1984. Looks like they’re making all public into “thought police”, or CoS robo-EOs, so they can turn in their neighbours or apply Gestapo-ethics to “non-Scientologists”, further alienating them and not helping them.

    There are only a couple of key policies on being an EO – Ethics Officer, His Character; and Ethics Officer Hat. They say it all. The rest that is being done under guise of this convention is merely brainwashing. And I am sure that if one’s admin scale and goals don’t align with DM’s ideal of public prostration and supplication (including all monies to the Church), then one will have to re-do it until it does align with DM’s plans. Implant factory? Yes.

    One would be better off paying $10 for a VMH course on Ethics and studying LRH oneself and coming to one’s own conclusions on how that tech can fit into one’s life. Or even taking the ISE book (original version) and reading it at home. Ethics is, afterall, a personal thing. Not an SO-orchestrated 3D Implant activity.

  88. Joe Pendleton

    Uhm………..he did do something about it.

  89. George~Deskilling…yes, I see it has happened. That is so opposite to what LRH expected of staff, isn’t it? LRH wanted us all to move up in awareness and skill to handle MORE, not less.
    Another trait of CofM…deskilling. Ain’t gonna work though – obviously!

  90. Jean-François Genest

    I think the intention (hidden agenda) behind this convention is to JUSTIFY the Church of Tom-Cruisology’s very use of inverted-ethics and finance techs onto the “parishioners” .

    The C of TCDM seeks to explain that ITS use of “Police-State Justice” is warranted. “Learn how to put ethics in on your fellow ‘Scientologists’ who don’t toe the line, don’t comply and don’t donate generously.”

    “The environment is SO dangerously enturbulated” = DM wants MORE money!! Right the f$$k N-O-W !!

  91. Hmmm…
    Since when does one “get ethics in” on someone else? If you read the accompanying article by LRH he never mentions “getting ethics in” on anybody but the person himself. Per LRH “when one is ethical or” has his ethics in” it is by his own determination and is done by himself.” (HCOB 15 Nov 72 II) Or.. ” that which is enforced by oneself, his belief in his own honor, and good reason, an optimum solution along the eight dynamics.” (PDC 37)

    What is being offered here is not Ethics at all. At best it is ethics officer training, but it is seemingly pointed at “getting ethics in on others including non-Scientologists.” When I stepped back a bit and viewed the whole thing the intention seems to be to train people to more efficiently extract money from others using “ethics technology” as a hammer.

    On another point I would not go anywhere near attempting to do MY admin scale under the “guidance” of the current church. I guarantee you that it will be used to either recruit you or extract money or both.


  92. I wonder how many sheep who take FSSO up on the offer, will end up in ethics needing to pay indulgences to handle their newly discovered out ethics situations.

  93. CD

    When in 1982 did LRH have his stroke? Not a challenge… just curious.


  94. Here is the solution. One of us must go to Flag {either you or me or both us} and find Sharon and tell her in person:

    “Hey Sharon! Quit kidding around and eat something and put some meat on those bones of yours before someone comes down to Flag and mistakes you for a rail and accidentally attaches you to somewhere near the stairs in the front lobby!”

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.

  95. Possibly the “think” involved here is a low-scale mockery of “Tech won’t go in if Ethics is out, therefore Ethics needs to be put in”. Since Tech delivery and completion stats are obviously straight down and vertical for years now, “someone” then “reasoned” backwards and decided more “ethics” needs to happen, thus more MAAs need to be “deputized” to from up a posse out in the field.

    Of course it’s totally wrong targetting, and is likely just a scam from the word “Go”. But that may be the justification.

    Dovetails nicely with other objectives like reging the unwitting marks who attend for other things too, after brainwashing them through the “intensive seminars”.

    “Welcome to the People’s Republic of the Church of Scientology Freewinds Reeducation Camp Convention! Throw off your bourgeois limitations and theetie-wheetie namby-pamby bleeding heart liberal attitudes and step into the exciting world of the New Man who lives beyond good and evil! Join us as we Get Ethics IN on the Wog World and create a new civilization without overt thinking and counter intentions! We’d rather have them Wogs (and you as well) DEAD than not 100% on board with Command Intention! All your cash are belong to us! The incredible wins of DB Levels IX and X await! You must get up to BD VIII NOW! (Or at least get it paid for!”

    The CoS is cannibalizing itself and it’s public and there doesn’t seem to be enough of it left for much of a meal…..

  96. Tony DePhillips

    That sounds awesome!!
    Where do I sign up to pay $1500. to run conditions and exchange by dynamics on someone? That is exactly what I need and want!! Hello…is anyone home???

  97. Or perhaps “We’d rather have you DEAD than not 100% on board with Command Intention. But give us your money and sign over your assets first.”

  98. theystolemychurch

    How the church was actually stolen…. it took a lot of reading and looking before I finally got it….

  99. Yes. Here’s the kind of world DM and the SO are busily creating, complete with “Ideal Orgs” that make those of the CoS look puny by comparison. Meanwhile, most of the population don’t even have beans and rice to eat – they cook and eat the bark off trees at times…..

  100. Doll bodies are just different types of bodies. Has nothing to do with the being animating them. LRH liked them because they were not as stuck into sensation as meat bodies are and if you crash them they are easier to straighten out, much like an automobile. A doll body is sort of like you
    inside your car. Easy to get in and out of, replaceable, you don’t get so fixedly attached to it (compared to a meat body). DM’s vision is more on the order of desiring robots that he can program to do his bidding. Unfortunately, what he creates instead are zombies–sleep deprived robots. One day, one or several of them will come for him.

  101. Your humble servant


    Now that you mention it, the “OT Debug” itself is a post-LRH creation created out of the De-bug checklists that LRH compiled for debugging staff members in the performance of their posts. It is sold to the public as something that is supposed to “Debug Life,” which is already something that the Gradation Chart, auditing, ethics, and training were meant to do. If someone is bugged on life, work, or such, what would be wrong with a standard auditing program, including repair, if necessary? I’m sure some people must have had wins on the OT Debug, but as I see it now it is a squirrel application in its original conception, an expensive alternative to doing auditing and training, with no justification for it existing in policy. As happened with your selectee, it was one more thing to take money away from the person, effectively barring him from availing himself of standard tech.


    Well let me explain something very simple, why those type of Lets build an introductory course are being made on that ship? well…
    1. DM is often more on the ship than @ Int Land Base
    2. Ethics Officers were ment to be Ethic’s Magisters when the Golden Age of Tech also came on the 80’s, why we dont see any one on any Org?Well none PASSED THE EXAM wich was a very simple test with INT RTC Officers; they all sent back as OP (Overt Product) to their own Orgs and since then none of then finished the Ethics programs; now I wonder if it was a matter of “something is wrong on the study there at Flag”? or since that part Int. wanted all the Staff became Sea Org Member look like, so just say one thing: IF YOU PUT HARD ETHICS OVER A PERSON WICH IS NOT THE EXACT GRADIENT WILL FEEL TERRIBLE, will feel is being terrorized; i can see from here how badly and wrongly public is being bad-serviced by their Orgs; demanding from public the moral codes from any Sea Org Member, not even getting late before Married (please……) and is true as i know some cases like that. But the main point is trying to all Orgs became like SOM Bases on the way to fuction failed, so the incorrect target now is THE PUBLIC!!!!!!!!!!! BRILIANT IDEA!!!!!!!!! They cant remember : that a public wich is valuable wich creates valuable products exchangable on the society and there for themselves are a very valuable public is THE MAIN GOAL of any Scientolgoy Org, NOT BEHAVING LIKE SEA ORG AT SOCIETY. So the Sea Org is a failure is not responsability of the public, is a fail at Int Land Base on how to mannup and how to operate, then obviously they are dramatazing kind of wrong target…. a little bitsy bit AND THEY ARE SHOOTING PUBLIC??? HHello?????? Not even on McDonnalds….. I can imagine HEY THE PEOPLE DOESNT WANT THE HAPPY BOX BURGER PACKET!!!!!!, What’????? BRING THEM ALL TO ETHICS !!!!!!! lol lol lol lol lol roflmaooooooooOOOOOOO .

  103. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Marty wrote. “The church of Scientology is dead. In its place lies an implant factory.”

    Now THAT, we can 100% agree on! 🙂

  104. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Yes, Larry Bennan played a key roll in the new organization structure of the CofS, and also worked on the special project of “religious cloaking” to make CofS appear as much as a church as possible. He has admitted to his part of the fraud in this area, though he just did the action of the fraud, he didn’t direct the fraud, as far as I know. The direction was from Hubbard and Miscavage, according to him.

    Perhaps for many Scientologists, the following may be uncomfortable to confront. I think I felt sicker in the stomach listening to this than listening to the OT3 Story. But I promise, it won’t kill anybody. 🙂

    He uncovers fraud which I wasn’t aware of.

    (By the way, Larry Brnnan also “donated” $400,000 in “fixed donations” for the Bridge. He was also one of the listed authors in the original “What is Scientology?” book, which lists all the authors and is practically a Who’s WHO list of Declared “SP’s”. lol)

    Go to Youtube to watch all 4 segments.

    Here is his declaration …

    Click to access crs.pdf

    (You may want to right click/save as and then read from Adobe Reader if your browser tends to crash from opening pdf files.)

  105. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Correction: I meant to write “Brennan” (not Bennan).

  106. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Great observation George. Good word! That’s exactly what the despot who’s tyrannizing Staff is doing.

    de·skill (dē-skĭl)
    tr.v. de·skilled, de·skill·ing, de·skills

    1. To eliminate the need for skilled labor in (an industry), especially by the introduction of high technology.
    2. To downgrade (a job or occupation) from a skilled to a semiskilled or unskilled position.

    – The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

  107. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Indeed! to all the thread above. 🙂

  108. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    The little tryrant …

    LOVES (CRAVES/WORSHIPS) – Power, money, MEST, domination, submission, attention and admiration

    HATES – People, Scientology, LRH, the second dynamic, other’s higher ability, compassion, and spirituality

    I’m sure this list could be expounded even more.

  109. Joe Pendleton

    Not quite sure what the recent “perversion” of ethics tech is. Nothing new here.

    LRH’s formulation of ethics (circa 1965 forward) had a couple of vital features. One, it definately WAS and IS necessary to detect and handle counter intention in the org (CI to the auditing process or to working with others in an in-ARC way). Also, as one cannot succesfully audit a PTS A-J, that phenomena also needs to be dealt with. I’ll also include the very positive idea that one should decide on pro-survival actions in life and getting in his own ethics by learning about this subject and then applying it. I’ve had great personal success with a few of the conditions formulas (doubt, non-e,. emergency, first dynamic danger).

    So giving Ron full credit for the above, I also feel I must state my opinion that much of the rest of the whole ethics system has been not only a monumental failure, but it’s design and the dramatizations it encourages has resulted in heartache and suffering for many, many people and has also resulted in the expulsion of some of the finest and most dedicated Scientologists. The “court” system LRH devised is an arm of the “power” – it IS designed to find people “guilty” of whatever the power decides they are guilty of. The system encourages quick punishment and penalties, but the system of recourse is very slow and often recourse has to be made to the same entities that one wants recourse FROM. It is heavily beaucractatic and complex and VERY easy to abuse. And as LRH was an autocrat, it is no surprise that his successor follows in that tradition (without Ron’s wisdom). Unlike auditing tech, the whole structure and practice of the Scientology ethics system was never under the same demand of “workability.”

    So, it doesn’t all come from “DM” – he’s using the system that is already there.

    Also, if Capt. Bill was such a loon, how come he was so close to LRH for all those years. And don’t tell me that Ron didn’t like and admire Miscavige very much because he did. While getting rid of David Mayo.

    Just sayin’.

    “The practice of not-isness reduces understanding.”

  110. There may or may not be 100% accepted proof of the signature forgery, but Davey was at least found guilty and declared for it. In the light of all other crimes, it’s more likely than not. From his SP declare, Ethics order 1 Int by OT committee UK, 8-6-1984:
    David Miscavige was a signatory of the splinter group RTC on 1 January 1982. There is no evidence that this group was authorized by LRH. The “legal” documents transferring Scn Trademarks from LRH to RTC bear a forged signature, and in fact Miscavige notarized these documents although he was a party to one side of the “agreement.” Further, re the forged LRH signature, according to two independent experts, John Swanson and Irmgard Wassard, Miscavige was a party to this forgery.

  111. Joe Pendleton

    As a “by the way”, while not excusing in ANY way Miscavige’s part in the current state and “accepted values” of the current C of S (with its punishment, money madness, etc) I refuse to “elect him cause” and grant him “the HONOR of full responsibility.”

    Yes, he is responsible for the effects he creates. But the whole picture? LRH is responsible. Marty is responsible. You’re responsible. I’m responsible.

  112. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Freetothink wrote, “In the LRH quote he mentions twice a being can learn/put “his own ethics in”. But in the other text a lot of emphasis is put on “how to get ethics in on others”. That is something I’ve heard from many in my years in the Church “put his ethics in”/”I will put your ehtics in”. Does anyone know of an LRH reference that says that? Please let me know if you do because that seems to me to be a well accepted alteration of what LRH says.

    It’s true, it was LRH who started this line about “putting ethics in on OTHERS”. That’s force. And I’m offended and resist that idea.

    (However, I believe that came from an “enemy valence” he was in as you’ll see why I say this, later. Obviously, LRH is not God, and he can suffer from some of the same frailties of human personality as anybody else, IMO.)

    There are many occurances of “Get” “Put” or “Keep” ethics in. Here are just three examples from Flag Orders …

    CLINICAL, 1. at this point in Sea Org de-
    velopment, there are two categories of DPF
    members: new recruits and clinical. Clinical
    personnel include out-ethics cases, tiger ty-
    pes, persons who need extroverting from
    their environments, and the like. Not to put
    ethics in on these guys
    is very cruel indeed.
    Ethics is what is needed most; ethics and
    good 8-C. (FO 3126)
    – Admin Dictionary

    M A A, responsible to the RPF Bosun for
    the ethics of the section leaders
    to keep e-
    thics in on their sections
    [Read members], and if he has to
    take ethics action on a section member, that
    member’s leader suffers the same penalty
    also. He has the section leaders muster their
    sections before breakfast, after meals and
    before study, before securing for the day and
    at any other times required by the Bosun
    within reason and without distraction from
    production. (FO 3434) Abbr. RPF MAA.

    SEA ORGANIZATION, 1. that organiza-
    tion which functions at a high level of
    confront and standard. Its purpose is to get
    ethics in on the planet and eventually the
    This organization operates with a
    fleet of ships dedicated to this purpose a-
    round the world. Being mobile and separate
    from the pull of land is an absolute necessity
    to accomplish its plans, missions and purpo-
    se: to get ethics in. (FO 508)

    – Admin Dictionary ([] Brackets are mine)

    In the senses above, “ethics” is apparently an external force (a group thing) thrusted upon another individual Being. IMO, the term ethics got abused and all twisted up, mixed its meaning with Justice.

    Contrast the above “LRH Beingness”, with the LRH Beingness quote below …

    Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
    TECH SECS Issue II
    Ds of T
    Confessional Pack

    “ETHICS is a personal thing. By definition, the word means:

    “The study of the general nature of morals and of the specific moral choices to be made by the individual in his relationship with others.” (American Heritage Dictionary)

    When one is ethical or “has his ethics in” it is by his own determination and is done by himself.

    JUSTICE is the action of the group against the individual when he has failed to get his own ethics in.

    In the culture in which we live, justice is so savage and often so unreasonable that it tends to inhibit the individual from confessing minor misdemeanors and Crimes.

    This aberrates him because it prevents him from getting off his withholds.

    This leads to bad health, bad eyesight, deafness and other things as can be proven in auditing results.



    Note: The Definition LRH gives for “Ethics” is Definition #1 in The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, First Edition, 1969. It’s interesting that this definition was “lost” (deleted) in future editions of this dictionary.

    (Also note that the italics in the word individual are not mine, nor the dictionary’s. That special emphasis was from LRH.)

    Ethics is by one’s OWN determination and the moral choices are made by the INDIVIDUAL, not from a “group” putting your ethics in.

    Ask why LRH emphasizes “individual”?

    From my own observation, it looks as if there was a somewhat “bipolar” LRH. One “brand” was a gentle soul, the real Thetan we’ve all come to love, the other version was an angry “enemy” us-versus-them valence that wasn’t true LRH. It appears the despot (DM) took on LRH’s enemy valence. IMO.

    IMO, the stern “Get Ethics In On the Planet” should be a more gentle and compassionate statement of …

    “Teach Ethics FOR the Planet.”

    “Get/Put/Keep Ethics In” is force, the latter is Thetaa gentle compassion for others

  113. Davey’s data of his Saint Hill days is not likely to be found in writing but witnesses that were there told us on the previous blog: Has Miscavige’s “church” Run Out of Clears to Invalidate? the entry, oct 2010 3:47pm, is the first thing I saw, but I didn’t believe it. Then the post, oct 2010 9:03pm, corroborated the facts on his auditing and steroids. Now this is where things get serious because Karen Jentz, wife of Heber, CL XII, personally by LRH trained highest classed and one of the most succesfull participant on this blog, attests to it as well. But even if it didn’t happen there at all, knowing the bank, something highly similar must have happened.

    His wife Shelly has not been seen for a long time but if she were dead, we’d have known and thus the only reasonable explanation is that she held at Gold, verbally declared like all others. Even if he didn’t declare her, after she became suspicious of his 2D connection with Jenny Linson, Shelly and Jenny’s husband disappeared from CMO; do the math.

    But best proof of stated facts comes from people on this blog; the most highly aware beings don’t dispute them. The fact that only CD makes his usual futile attempt further corroborates it.

  114. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    In addition …

    The Sea Org can’t> “Get Ethics in on the Planet” if ethics is a personal or individual thing, as the gentle LRH defined along with the American Heritage dictionary.

    Justice is what the group forces on the individual if the individual cannot get their own ethics in.

    So if the Sea Org (group) were to “Get Justice in on the Planet”, then that would make more sense. However, if that’s what the Sea Org has been attempting to do all this time, they have failed miserably.

    LRH said, “In the culture in which we live, justice is so savage and often so unreasonable”, which is exactly the way it is in the CofS culture. The CofS acts just like what LRH was against!

  115. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


  116. Joe Pendleton

    83% (factually)

    could go higher – depends on week’s GI stat

  117. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Very excellent post, Joe.

    Ethics has gotten confused with Justice. And real Justice in the CofS has always been wacky for as long as I’ve known.

    I’ll trust the Justice system of the federal government over CofS’s “justice”, any day.

  118. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Line charging some more here, 🙂 …

    The very terminology “Ethics Officer” or “Master at Arms” (MAA) are threatening terms. The very names represent FORCE.

    Instead of either of the above terms being used, the term “Justice Officer” would be a more appropriate term for the internal policing I’ve seen CofS do.

    Why couldn’t the term have been “Ethics Teacher”. Wouldn’t that be more appropriate for somebody who’s trying to show another how they can get their own individual ethics in on themselves? That fits more appropriately with the “gentle LRH” definition of ethics.

    Instead, terminology was apparently used for the purpose of instilling fear, IMO. Otherwise, who would be afraid to go to an Ethics Teacher? lol.

    But going to THE Ethics Officer or THE Master at Arms sounds much more omninous and ferocious, and a much easier way to cave somebody into their demands to get nonthinking compliance to force.

  119. Just a musing:

    Is this what is known as a “shake down cruise”?

  120. Hello, YHS. I confirmed the last time I saw her(Carol Miles) was at the Base down-under, while she was doing RPF there. It was about Nov-Dec, 2008.

  121. LOL!

  122. Joe,

    There is a BC tape, 8 June 65, Handling the PTS, that lays out the actual considerations for the so-called Justice Codes issued that same year. This can be summed by the second paragraph of the first issue of those Justice Codes, PL 7 March 65, Issue I, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists (in the 91 OEC this is listed as 23 Dec 65RB):
    “The chief stumbling block, huge above all others, is the upset we have with POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCES and their relationship to suppressive persons or groups.”

    The tape above gives the ‘music’ for that datum. A short part of that tape will hopefully give the idea.

    “So it’s an ‘Everybody bears the burden of a couple of crooks’. Do you follow? And you’ll find that most of your arbitrary laws and savageness on the part of exectutives and officers, and so forth, stems from the fact that they are unable to handle the couple that goofed. And if they have enough loses in handling these guys they get savage toward everybody.”

    Approximately 80% of any given group will be ‘social personalities’, that is, not PTS/SP. About 20% will require handling on the lines set up to do that handling – Dept 3, Inspections and Reports, in coordination with Dept 14, Review (that is, on Qual/HCO lines as opposed to the Div 4, Tech Delivery lines.)

    The initial postulates for the Justice Codes, deal with the handling of PTS/SP phenomena, and an orderly means to do so, rather than just random, arbitrary savage ‘justice’.

    Again, from the tape, “What’s interesting about it is, if you don’t have a system of law and order, you’ll never have law and order. You will just have cruelty, duress, suddeness, revenge, these sorts of things.”

    The Codes were also postulated as an orderly means for a being, recovered and full of ‘piss and vinegar’ to handle the environment in an orderly fashion rather than burning it to a crisp. In other words, give newly released, Clears, OTs, an orderly means of dealing with PTS/SP phenomena in the broader environment else some righteous OT might just melt down that which is in the road.

    The material on the workings of a group, need to be studied fully, and worked with an eye to the actual intention and initial consideration of them and removing the alter-is, else there will be a persistence of the altering considerations. Even a complete reversal, as in DMology.

    There’s a lot of beings here. Some ‘law and order’ is a sensible idea.

  123. The OT Debug is basically a sort-out on your livelihood. It’s your money lines that are being debugged, so that you can continue up the Bridge.

  124. Joe Pendleton

    Wayne, you make a very good point as to how words can represent concepts and how important it is that the right words are chosen for any particular effect which one might want to create (or not create as the case may be).

    As far as the word “officer” goes on the Org Board, well the way the titles go is as follows: you have a Department and the head of the dept. is a “director” like the “Director of Communication” – Dept.2. Then you have sections in the dept. and the head of each section is called an “officer.” So Dept. 2 has the “mimeo section” and the head of it is the “mimeo officer.” Within each section, you have “units” as I recall and the head of a unit is an “in-charge.” Thus in the mimeo section, there might be the mimeo files unit and the head would be the “mimeo files in-charge.” So in Dept. 3, there’s an ethics section with its “officer.” Sometimes you have enough staff to have a “public ethics section” and a “staff ethics section” and each has its own “officer.” Or you might be sparsely staffed and these posts are “held from above” as the saying goes. I don’t have my materials where I am, so I may stand corrected on this, but in any org, there’s lots of titles to be had on the admin side for folks who like having them .

    MAA of course is a title used in the military and when it comes to the uniforms and the whole military protocal. Wayne………….DON’T GET ME STARTED!!!! (HA)

  125. There are many misconceptions about Ron. Captain Bill was nowhere near as close as “outsiders” think. Not too long before LRH left the Apollo, he slammed Capt Bill with Treason as the ship’s water tank was almost empty and the port would not left us replenish it (a make wrong tactic by the port). For several days, the crew could not shower and they waited for rain in their bathing suits while the water would come down the roof of a warehouse where they would “shower” and collect water is vessels. It was a correctly assigned condition and Capt Bill did it and shut up. I saw them talking after that, several weeks later, at 11:30pm or so by the gangway and they were gabbing and having a great time. Both knew it was the last time they would interact as “Commodore” and “Captain” on the ships. I just watched for a few moments from the prom deck as it was nostalgic and the end of an era. After that, I’m not sure they ever saw each other again until Captain Bill went to Int IF they even interacted personally there. But Capt Bill was frustrated with Jimmy Mulligan and his own lines to LRH. The one who was closest to LRH (after Kima and Mike left) was Pat Broeker and Annie. You are going to have to wait for Sarge’s story to get anything that resembles a “full handle” on this perspective. Maybe that will be in Marty’s book and maybe Sarge will post it himself. I will tell you from my own experiences that Sarge’s recollections of LRH are more consistent with my own than any others I have read about. I did not witness all the distempered emotions that no many naysayers have reported. I did see him get angry once but with reasonable cause. I also heard him screaming like hell at his auditor. I always thought and perhaps experienced LRH as a highly sensitive mirror. He would mirror what you were thinking or being/doing/having and feed it back to you. If you were full of shit, watch out!!! I also don’t believe that LRH admired DM at the end. LRH liked assertive behavior but I am sure he grew weary of both DM and Broeker as has been reported. The ethics system that LRH created is not inherently flawed. Not at all. What is flawed is the alteration and perversion of it to serve the Queen Bee. Same thing has happened on Wall Street with the SEC laws and the energy laws with Enron and BP. Perverts rule the roost in many respects on this “dust bin of a planet” so to speak. Why would Scientology be any different? IMHO, all the charge and natter from people’s bad experiences has occluded (for many) what gifts LRH had to offer. If you consider the 3D and 4D as pcs, both are in a catatonic state of shock with regard to even the mention of his name. The 4D has been subjected to convincing entheta that has a lot of legs by reason of certain truths it is often tied to. The 3D does not even have a flying f*** of an idea of who LRH really was or what his intentions really were. They have DM. Instead, we have an alternative 3D. (There’s another title for your book Marty: Alternative 3-D!) . There will be more bathwater to come out regarding LRH and while I do not know what Sarge has to say, I can tell you from my own knowledge base of LRH, that it is a delicate issue. It has to be. The bathwater is toxic and and Scientologists have been showered in bathwater and worse for decades. “Overboarding” in the pond is very symbolic here. The baby is not seen, let alone protected. And, Mary Sue sometimes called LRH “Baby” affectionately. As a side comment, the Gypsies, according to their own legends, protected the Baby Jesus from Herod and for this they were given the right to take what is theirs which was perverted into stealing. Jesus was crucified between two thieves as part of this symbolism. He loved the downtrodden as they were more redeemable. As Gypsies of Scientology, you have a right to take what is yours.

  126. I wonder how much they take in from this “qualifying” racket.

  127. Marty, if you do the convention you will learn how to do on others Condition by dynamics….
    It is a perfect tool?
    Well good, which condition are you on your first?
    On your second?
    on your 3rd?

    “Good now perfect for the first one as you will fix it by handling the 3rd.
    Regarding the 2nd, too much problems, that is not how a 2D should be. Just get divorce. Your 2D is stopping you from prospering on the 3rd.
    Now regarding the 3rd. If we get this in affluence all the rest will do well. So, you should Up-grade your IAS status!!
    Disagree with the MEST universe and be OT!! this will handle your 3D D.
    Now, do not waste my time and give me your credit card!”

    ha! ha!

  128. Oh, the old Chocolate Cake excuse, huh?

  129. Damn! Verbal tech always used to be free! Now you have to pay for it??!! What has the world come to?????

  130. Joe, agree with you but with this addition: I know plenty of tapes and issues where LRH corrected something that went wrong, Marty, you and I wanted to change when we saw something was wrong (including our own actions). You know how easy or how hard it was and is to make that change.

    I’m positive that 90-whatever percent of SO, staff members and publics GLADLY would change what is wrong at the blink of an eye, provided they were allowed to do so without repercussions.

    There is an INTENTION to actually do it right and if it went wrong, to fix it.

    Isn’t that what this blog is all about?

  131. If you look at how much money CCHR has received for the purpose of getting rid of the psychiatrist and then you look at how wide spread psych drugs are today it shows you DM doesn’t give a crap about that, it’s just away to scare us all into donating money again and again and again and again
    and……Well, you get the message.

  132. Wayne,

    I never met or worked with LRH, so anyone reading this feel free to indicate that I’m full of it. But I think LRH would probably gag at the phrase “gentle LRH”.

    LRH was not a “pat-a-cake”. LRH said he would make Capt. Bligh look like a Sunday School teacher, if necessary to defend Scientology.

    Others on this blog who worked with LRH have noted that he was tough as nails and expected pretty much the same attitude from those who worked with him.

    I never once doubted that his intention was to create a strong, effective, disciplined organization when he set up the SO.

    Some people try to make nothing of the upper levels in various ways. But those who have seen how badly their mis-application or mis-use can mess up people’s heads understand clearly why there needs to be tight discipline in application and serious penalties for misapplication, especially if such misapplication is intentional.

    Who has a problem with this? I sure don’t.

    This whole “gentle” approach to life – it’s so ’60s. Think “self-esteem”, “I’m OK, You’re OK”. One problem with this lovely approach to everything is that it is basically a not-is (denial) of evil.

    Also include manipulation of language as a way to make people feel better or maybe “cozy” as yet another superficial ’60s pop psychology idea – “Ethics Teacher” instead of “Ethics Officer” – ??? Oh yeah, how much safer will that make me feel as I walk into the Ethics office after carving up my pc?

    Frankly, I WANT my “Ethics Office” and my “Police Office” and my “Attorney General’s Office” and my “Prosecutor’s Office” to sound very ominous indeed – to WRONGDOERS.

    It’s not the WORDS that make me afraid. Sorry, but IMO people who are frightened by words need to do some basic TR-0. Maybe a lot.

    If I have clean hands, I have nothing to fear, unless the system allows for injustice. And if I don’t have clean hands, maybe I SHOULD be afraid (depending on how “unclean” my hands are, of course).

    Wayne, to (wildly) paraphrase that immortal philosopher John Lennon, maybe you should “give Fear a chance” (Just Kidding!).

    The real problem, again, is just as Joe Pendleton said – potential for injustice, lack of REAL checks and balances built into the system. He put it well: “the court system is an arm of the power”. IMO, that’s what needs to be changed, not the title of the position.

    It’s all about power – not words (IMO, as always).

  133. RTC was Hubbards and his lawyers brainchild but Miscavige scooted of with it.

  134. Alsoo people WATCH these very important videos ! If you want to KNOW how it went don from somebody who was there and took part. Quality is somewhat poor.

  135. Jean-François Genest

    What did the ocean say to DM?
    → Nothing, it just waved. ~~~~~:)

  136. Apparently David Miscavige thinks he knows better how a Scientology based Organization should be run.

    Unfortunately, based on what Marty Rathbun has stated, the statistics since 1990, when he took full control, show that he is wrong.

    You know, there’s an old say that goes: “if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it”.

    Apparently, David Miscavige didn’t learn that one.

    But you know what happens with people who don’t learn things the easy way?

  137. Alex Braverman

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.

    I am Alex Braverman and I endorse this message.

  138. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, sorta…

  139. May I remind people that the big personal Scientology win that DM shared on the famous Nightline interview was terminatedly handling his asthma at the age of 14. OK, so this was a big fat lie, told on network TV. I had always believed it. Who would have thought that DM would lie? This is the only win he could think of, and it wasn’t stable? What is he, a no-case-gain case?

  140. It has Zombie-like qualities though. You have to fend them off at the door sometimes 😉

  141. It’s all coming down like a house of cards. I can feel it.

  142. She keeps the implant factory alive on the ship.
    I’ve seen her treat her valuable technical staff like they were pieces of crap.
    I’ve seen her scream at them in demeaning ways.
    She is very much full of anger and hate.
    This is not a leader.
    This is an asshole.
    Philosophy is not meant to be applied word for word.

  143. I thought the main purpose of this blog was for Marty to gain clients that would like his help. At least that is what is put forth in ‘Welcome’ and ‘What We Do’. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

  144. You is correct. I have seen so many times the Scientology ethics system used like a corrupt third world country’s kangaroo court system to enact injustices and vengeance from some idiot. What’d LRH say? ‘Man cannot be trusted with justice’. Then what are all the idiots who have misapplied justice in Scientology? Aren’t they men? (and of course women).

    Maybe that’s why DM appointed his dog. That’s his justice enforcer. Speaks to him, like Son of Sam killer. Hypothetically speaking, can’t someone kidnap the dog?

  145. becomingAware

    It was meant to be funny. I have a dry sense of humor although it is also TRUE and could be considered a horror story to scare the kids with on Halloween. “The IAS regs are coming . . . ”

    I donate to causes I consider worthwhile but the IAS is no longer one of them.

    Summer Wind – yes – not much of an impact and they are still asking for more money to fight the same causes. I know there are people there that still believe and still are fighting but with the heads removed and it being run by DM for other purposes . . . time for those staff to just move on and let it die for to continue is to forward a lie and fraud and to push power to an SP. Not something one wants on their track if it can be avoided.

  146. I knew him and his wife, Joan Robertson, from the early days. A number of years ago I ran into Joan and we did a little catching up. She asked me if I had heard what happened to Bill, which I had not at that time. She alluded to his strange behavior and explained he had a brain tumor which was responsible for this and caused his early death.

  147. martyrathbun09

    Beautiful post.

  148. Ha ha ha!

  149. This post was in answer to Joe Pendelton’s: “Also, if Capt. Bill was such a loon, how come he was so close to LRH for all those years.”

  150. Where’s the wake behind the ship? It looks like the ship just fell from the sky.

  151. Fascinating post too. The last several sentences come across as very cryptic, especially where you talk about “overboarding in the pond”. Wish you would elaborate more, but maybe you don’t consider this the best time or place?

  152. I am familiar with the history of the Korean people.

    My best friend is a Martial Arts instructor and his Grand Master is escaped from North Korea a long time ago to bring his knowledge of Tae Kwon Do with him to America.

    That in itself is a noble gesture. And here you compare this to the DM regime.

    There is a funeral parlor about 1 block away from my house. My father had is his wake there. I have always wondered what would actually happen if I picked one of the wakes going on at random and went there unknown to the deceased and the deceased unknown to me as well as the other guests at the wake and I hopefully being unknown to one another.

    Now what if I went to that wake and falsely adopted the tone level of “uncontrollable grief” at the time. Would I ever get to really find out in fact WHO the true friends of the deceased were that were really there with me witnessing this emotion be it true or false?

    I guess I would be the first to find out unless I brought an “understanding friend” with me.

    As with DM, time will tell.

    I absolutely won’t rest until DM is defrocked morally and ethically.

  153. After doing essentially the whole bridge, I looked across the lines at what what was written in church policy by LRH to basic intentions and objectives, etc of the wider game, other than individual results.

    When I looked again at the purpose of the Sea Org, being to get ethics in on the planet and the universe, I suddenly saw in a whole new light just how delusional and ridiculous the likelihood of that ever being accomplished really was.

    The only way I saw it possible to achieve was along the lines of what we would sometimes joke about as to how the planet could be quickly cleared. To kill everyone who was not clear. Voila!

    As I looked deeper at this and saw how DM and the new Scientology Centurions were going about their business, I thought maybe they do intend to kill everyone who won’t ‘get their ethics in’. Maybe. After all, LRH does state it in KSW policy, doesn’t he? Does he or does he not say, “we’d rather have you dead than incapable?” Am I lying? Hallucinating? Does LRH not put forth an extreme amount of pressure on the reader, by saying “the entire future of this planet and every man, woman and child on it, depends on what you do with and in Scientology”?

    And he says the tech of OT can’t go in without ethics.
    And the purpose of ethics is to get tech in.
    And it’s the Sea Org that’s there to get ethics in.
    And he says that Capt’n Bligh (an acid-tongued, cruel tyrant) was nowhere near a tough enough beingness.

    So, my think on this whole crazy game, with the hammering forces of ethics and justice and abuse and toughness and public tolerance and blind compliance is that David Miscavige is using this assumed beingness of Supreme Ruler and Savior of Mankind and Protector of the Tech, as a justification and a platform to demonstrate that he is the toughest guy in the universe, therefore fully qualified to continue to own this precious beingness, which gives him the right to do ANYTHING to ANYONE he wants to do in order to achieve the agreed upon goal of saving the universe and all in it.

    I dropped out of the game when I realized the methods being used were antithetical to the achievement of the goal.

  154. metaequal,

  155. I have watched the video and Larry did whathe did, witnessed what he witnessed and says what he says, but he has his own slant on it. I say this because he is talking about 1975, 1979, that period of time. In fact Hubbard started talking about the religious nature of the philosophy fof Scientology back in 1954-1955, in his lectures introducing “Scientology” to Dianeticists.

    I think it is propagandistic, to call it “religious CLOAKING”, because Scientology philosophy always had a religious quality similar to what Buddhism has or some other Eastern philosophies have.

    Callingit “CLOAKING” impliesit does notbasically have any religious nature, and that’s not true. It does have such a nature in the Eastern sense. “The Phoenix Lectures” was published long before 1975, and those lectures were delivered in the mid-1950s, and they are all about the religiously philosophical nature of scientology

    Thus I feel Larry is falsifying the situation, to the extent that he is giving the impression that Hubbard was cynically trying to establish a temporal religious organization on a subject that had no religious basis at all. It is perhaps his honest his perception, OK, but perhaps he was too close to it to see the forest for the trees.

    “Religious cloaking”, if you want to call it that, was done by Christian missionaries throughout the history of Christianity. Holidays such as Christmas were based on, one might say they “appropriated”, existing pagan holidays in order to blend the Christian religion into the existing beliefs and cultures. This does not mean that Christianity is not basically religious, and was adopting “religious cloaking” for cynical reasons. It was done to make it more acceptable to the people being proselytized (“disseminated to”).

    Additionally, in the 1960s and 1970s, there was quite amovement, especiallyinCalifornia, of people declaring themselves “Ministers” to get tax advantages and so on. It was commonly being done, and the law of the time allowed it. But that does not speak to whether the “religious cloaking” done by scientologists was “legitimate” or not.

    Personally I would have preferred scientology organizations not be set up the way it was set up, as “churches”, but even so it is basically religious enough to be setup that way, and under the existing culture and laws of the USA it is entirely logical that it be classified as such. In some other cultures, the question might not even arise. In the USA, the delivery of Scientology auditing and training may well have been banned becauseof the anticompetitive practices and lobbying of the AMA and APA, if they were deemed to be in the realm of “psychological therapy.” One does what one must do, to survive in the existing culture. Establishing churches may have been the only viable option.

    Characterizing the establishment of the temporal organizations of Scientology as “churches” to be “religious cloaking” thus appears to me to be a disingenuous and propangandistic attempt to deny Scientology’s basically religious nature. As though to say, “It’s not religious, we worked to fool people into thinking it is, when it really isn’t.” No, it really is.

    Although it is not very similar to Christianity, for example, to me Scientology has a basic religious quality in the sense of some Eastern philosophies. It is more of a “religion”, for example, than Buddhism is, and yet Buddhism is accepted as a religion, worldwide.

    To me, Scientology is very much an expression of what has been called “the Perennial Philosophy”.

    Books on the subject include one of that name by Aldous Huxley, any of the works of AlanWatts, or perhaps the writings of Kahlil Gibran.

  156. Hope this will be a response to Amy posting about Miscavige not liking people…Something just struck me.

    The interesting thing about the flatscreen TVs in the idle org, is that they are utterly counterproductive. If you want to get people to get involved with your high pressure group/cult, some good ol’ ‘love bombing’ is pretty important. In the old days, the buidings were still gritty, I am sure this contributed to making this a very natural thing. In the current Idle Orgs, not so much.

  157. I like that term you used, ‘misery of payroll’. That’s what I thought when one time I received my weekly staff pay from the org for 53 cents. That’s right, fifty-three cents (genuine U.S. currency) for the entire week.

    We would look at the fact that Sea Org generally got $25.00 per week and think that was awesome pay compared to ours, which it was.

  158. Awesomely funny! That’s exactly what it is – “A shakedown cruise!”

    “Put your wallets on the table first, then take off your watches and jewelry…..”

  159. Wayne, is Scientology an “applied religious philosophy” or not?

    If it is, then where’s the “fraud’ in establishing churches around it?

    See my comment below.
    There is no fraud.

  160. Yeah, well in my opinion, LRH should have detected and protected old Capt’n Bill, who was a good auditor in his own rite, as well as a loyal Scientologist until he went mental from the brain tumor and a broken heart.

  161. It’s also a huge outpoint if there’s any truth to your statement that LRH did not admire DM at the end. He was in a position of power to do something and ensure that church control did not get passed to someone he did not admire, much less a lunatic. So, although you may believe what you said to be true, I do not.

  162. Metaqual, I have a feeling I should know you. Although I wasn’t on the ship I did know most of the ‘old timers’. Guess I’m one now. I Loved your analogy of the ‘highly sensitive mirror’. I think Karen can agree with us.
    If you were honest and didn’t hide anything from him he was a great friend. He treated you as on the same team and part of the family. If you were hiding something or lied to him, he KNEW it and heaven help you. I’ve been told I have a clean space so maybe thats why he liked me. I’ve writen a few little stories of the early days of Creston and am writing more. Some things I’m going to let Marty talk about in his book. I’ll post some more stories soon. Thanks for acknowledging my stories. Maybe they are ‘candy coated’ but I do that, they are true and as accurate as I can be.

  163. ChurchofCards

    Speaking of cards (credit cards that is),

    There have been sporatic reports/rumors recently of the Church of Mischief-o-logy getting desperate and using members credit card numbers without consent.

    If you have EVER used a credit card at an org, you may want to consider canceling that credit card number within the next 24 hours. You can just call the bank and tell them you lost the card, cancel immediately, and please reissue you a new one. In most cases, the banks will do so immediately without further questions.

    Better safe than sorry.

  164. martyrathbun09

    Neither do I

  165. martyrathbun09

    Though I wouldn’t characterize what we used to do as “love bombing”, but instead sharing genuine ARC, I agree with your observation that the techno-audio-visio obsession is as counter productive as can be.

  166. martyrathbun09

    Nice post.

  167. martyrathbun09

    I’ll write it again. I had a completely unindoctrinated new Scientologist read KSW – outside the pressures and group agreement inculcated in orgs . His take? “It means, if it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it.” However people became too serious, when Scientologists began taking them too seriously, they lost the magic of a technology that can – if properly applied – make on insouciant.

  168. Metaqual, Thank you for this post, it’s wonderful and stirring of all the sentiments due the true purpose of Scientology and LRH. That’s a great analogy, the mirror. There is such a thing as “clean anger” … it’s just, and doesn’t damage. I can totally have that kind of anger. On all flows.

  169. I’ll give you David Miscavige version of Ethics regarding safeguarding the Enviroment.

  170. Does anyone besides me see a faint image, kind of translucent in the blue background of this advertisement? It looks like a woman in medieval clothing, seated, with hands resting on a surface before her. I could be nuts, but I can see it, and naturally want to know what it means. Is it just a watermark or what? Maybe my mind just doesn’t want to see Sharron looking so bad!

  171. Tony DePhillips

    Great post Baby!!

  172. one of those who see

    OMG! Just got an email about the OT Prosperty Convention NOv. 4 – 11 on the Freewinds. This is an actual paragraph from the email: “Your seminars cover the vampire personality-the aberrative personality that lives off the prosperity of others. You gain the ability to spot this with full perception and put yourselves in a position where you are not the effect of this.”

    You’ve got to ask yourself. Is someone on the inside trying to fix things??? Or are they just blind as a bat.
    In any case, I would like to attest to having attained the above ability.

  173. Tony DePhillips

    Great point Sinar!!
    Why is all this ethics needed?? Are they losing control of the situation?
    If people need and want ethics can’t they read the book and figure it out? Do they need someone to explain it all to them?? Is it REALLY that complex?? Do they need to have their pee pee’s whacked?

  174. Joe,
    You make a VERY interesting point, but I gotta back ya up to the begining. If you think the ethics tech is a failure because of misapplication, couldn’t the same be said of the auditing tech? Wouldn’t you be throwing the baby out with the bathwater here?

    Just as DM and the Co$ is currently bastardizing ethics tech with this promotional piece, so have they done the same with auditing (F/N’s and 3 swings), with the concept of Dynamics (2D being squirrelled and alter-is’d), administration (all orders going through RTC, micro-management, inspection before the fact), and the list goes on.

    Just as Marty has spotted “Reverse Dianetics” and Scientology being used by the “church” today, it doesn’t stop with just the auditing tech. It’s everything.

    I can see how you might come to the conclusion that ethics tech is “not right” because… damn it, it’s NEVER been done right! And why might that be? Misunderstoods, missed withholds, false data, alteration, etc.

    It’s a shame that it has all been altered so much, Lord only knows what Ron’s intentions truly were. I’m going to take poetic license here (WARNING: INTERPRETATION HERE ) and say that the Justice system was more for… wait for it, those in need of Justice: Supressives.

    If you work the formulas and still you have a guy on post who is undermining intentionally the organization, bring him before a committee of evidence and prove it! If it is true, it would be easy to prove.

    My first post was Ethics Officer, and I was straight off the street, totally green and new to Scientology, no idea what the hell auditing was, much less the concept of “tech.” They just new I never did mind-altering drugs and was HCO qualified and POW! I’m on post.

    Who the hell is going to listen to that guy when he comes and asks for your graph? your BP? your conditions formula? Hell, my confront was such I never even asked for those things, how the hell was anyone going to work on them when the ONE PERSON who is supposed to be asking… doesn’t?

    I don’t think it is a poorly concieved system of ethics and justice, I think it was a non-existant one, and altered when it did exist.
    Ethics could never go in, because no one ever even tried.

    Tech is In where Ethics are In. When Ehtics are out, Admin and Tech cannot exist. It works that way: Ethics first, then Tech, then Admin. The Co$ has been flying by the seat of their pants since before 1986, and you can take that to the bank!

    Like so many other things in Scientology, Ethics have been way over-complicated and confused over the years to the point where noone knows what the hell it is. And with DM altering the actual tech, we’ve got to look back to original data to figure it out. Some Class VIII’s have it out there. Wish there were a million of them.

    A friend of mine on staff in Buffalo sent me the new ethics book and I didn’t get one page before putting it down for all the alteration. Dynamics, Conditions, actual PL’s that are supposed to be quoted are now paraphrased.

    So, now that I’m done rambling… (not!), K.S.W. #1.
    And if that doesn’t work, then what’s true for you, is what is true. And at THAT point, I’ll shuddup. 😉

  175. Very cool post. Like the others, I especially loved the storytelling at the end and bringing it forward. Outstanding.

    Makes me wanna write again.

    PS: As an aside… I’ve noticed something Creativity has died in the Church. Anyone notice that? Everyone defaults to Gold to come up with songs and videos and such. Back in the day, people were singing, writing songs and poems, people really DID wax enthusiastic! Notice you don’t see that anymore? But starting to see in on Indie blogs a bit…. and here.

    It’s a positive sign and a V.G.I. that we’re on the right path!

  176. martyrathbun09

    Bozz, you are on a roll – don’t shuddup. Was just discussing Scn Ethics with a friend today. We sorta concluded – take out all the additives, and what LRH provided was a handy way for any fellow to puzzle out what is the right thing to do in any given situation.

  177. Sarge….I don’t think I ever saw you if you were at Dunedin all the time. I never made it to King Arthur’s Court….was not stationed there but used to see Brian Livingston coming and going in the van because he lived with Vicky. But I would like to know you.
    With regard to LRH admiring DM, I have only read….and I think it was from Sarge….that LRH grew very unhappy with DM and Pat. I also heard from another source that Pat was put on MEST work by LRH. I think LRH might have admired DM in the early years because of the effective 3rd party he ran Dede.
    I know Logan and as I recall, Jim (sounds like I am talking to James T. Kirk), I was the only one who supported you when you were being given the 3rd degree when Tracy was declared and (I think at this time you had expressed a justifiable grievance about two senior execustives – one of which was giving you a hard time – of having had a homosexual encounter. I pulled took you down Ft. Harrison Street and told you about the entire implications of the whole Mission holder fiasco and you saw it in full….at least for a moment. I think you left the SO to do Future Track and then came back to the SO and Future Hell. I’m glad you have retained your rough edges even after having done A-E so many times! Jim, please email me at and we can start dialoging. I feel a little awkward identifying myself at this point because it is complicated. I have a lot to share with Marty too although I never met him but again….it is long and complicated. I should also add here that I was hesitant to post or dialogue here until the data was posted about the “dirty tricks” PI guy who has many names. A close friend of mine who was a “KEYED-OUT OT” and more of a metaphysician than what I would call an occultist (he was never in Scn), was often sometimes called on by police and whatnot with regard to cults. He had no axe to grind with LRH or Scn as a subject and he told me once that the CofS had approached the mob about doing a hit. Now, neither Marty or Mike strike me as murderers but because of the positions they occupied, this news made me leary of any association. Some people have made accusations about them but they were ill informed. This PI bullshit explains so much. Speaking of murder, I am also disturbed by the circumstances surround Flo Barnett’s alleged suicide but that is another story. It is obvvious to me that Marty is creating a safe space, but I saw all the handwriting on the wall almost thirty years ago. It is also surreal to speak to people you haven’t seen in so much time. It was Glenn Samuel’s post that got me interested as I was rather awed at his technical analysis. I was friends with Glenn in the 70s. Scientology as a subject is going through a HUGE transition phase and I hope that I can help shed light on the baby and help other identify the bathwater. Let me hear from you Jim.

  178. “Hubbard started talking about the religious nature of the philosophy fof Scientology back in 1954-1955”

    You do realize he had sold the rights to Dianetics before he ventured on the religious path ?

  179. martyrathbun09

    Little Davey Lebow is easy to handle. If you smell him in your territory, just call him on the phone and ask him up front what he wants to know. He’s got a millenial comm lag. If he persists, give me the particulars and I’ll post it. If he continues to persist better yet, if he stays in one geographic location long enough we’ll have him arrested.

  180. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    When I deprogrammed myself from Christianity by the time I was 19, I’ve vowed since that I’m spiritual, but not religious.

    I considered (and still do) spiritual people much more compassionate than a religious person. No way in hell 😉 do I want to associated with the idea that I’m “religious”. To me, it’s a nasty word with bad connotations.

    When I was first introduced to Scientology, I was almost blown out from the very start from the repugnant thought of, “Oh no, not another f**king religion!”. I wasn’t about to worship or deify anything or anybody again, which is the common definition in American English.

    re·li·gious (rĭ-lĭjəs)

    1. Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.
    2. Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text.
    3. Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty.

    n. pl. religious

    A member of a monastic order, especially a nun or monk.

    [Middle English, from Old French, from Latin religiōsus, from religiō, religion ; see religion.]

    re·ligious·ly adv.
    re·ligious·ness n.

    Synonyms: religious, devout, pious
    These adjectives mean having or showing a belief in and veneration for God or a divine power, especially as it is reflected in the practice of religion. Religious implies adherence to religion in both belief and practice: The cathedral at Chartres is an expression of the religious fervor of the Middle Ages. Devout connotes ardent faith and sincere devotion: Devout Muslims observe Ramadan punctiliously. Pious stresses dutiful, reverential discharge of religious duties: a pious woman who attends Mass every morning.

    – The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

    What held my curiousity and held me in was the book, “Dianetics, Modern Science of Mental Health”, and that I was told that Scientology is “the science of knowing how to know.”

    To cloak a science as a “religion” is a violation of the Code of a Scientologist, IMO (and makes about as much sense to me as making physics, a lower science than Scientology, a religion.)

    “To teach Scientology at a level it can be understood and used by the recipients. ”

    Too many people already have their own religion. Turning Scientology into a religion violates the above code by making it compete against another religion. Is one a Christian or a Scientologist? As religions, I don’t see how these can genuinely jive together. Scientology would not have rejected by many Christians if it were not cloaked as a religion.

    I can agree that the Scientoloy philosophy part has a spiritual quality to it, but the actual Tech itself IS truly a science. Ron has defined Scientology as a science many times. (Even though, later, he may have realized it was a supposed mistake in “strategy”.)

    sci·ence (sīəns)


    a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
    b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
    c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

    2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I’ve got packing a suitcase down to a science.
    3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
    4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.

    I really don’t think the term “religious cloaking” of Scientology is a disingenuous phrase, as one may first believe. Larry explains how CofS went out of their way to dress Scientology up as a religion “to agree” with the idea of what most people perceive a religion to be.

    I don’t deny this may have been done so Scientology could survives. But I believe this was the wrong way to do it and they took the easy way out.

    What should have happened was to fight for the unalienable Right for Freedom to counsel another which falls under Freedom of Speech. I don’t need a f**king license to talk to another person!

    Any other way through was a lazy way to handle the problem, and because of that overt of religious “cloaking”, Scientology turned into a marketing and public relations disaster, which can be easily studied and observed. and our unalienable Rights got erroded again even more.

    Organized Scientology utterly failed in defending the idea …

    “That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others”

    Though LRH had an MU on the difference between “UNalienable” and “INalienable”, I still know what he intended to mean, above. (Just like he and many others had/have an MU on the difference between Determinism and Determination, I still know what is meant.)

    The “religious” angle of Scientology wasn’t born out of pure motives, but instead, born out of the INCENTIVES of a being Church, IMO.

    Though it may be difficult to confront, Larry is not as far off as one (a Scientologist) may first think.

  181. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Valkov wrote, “Wayne, is Scientology an “applied religious philosophy” or not?”

    No. Scientology is an “applied spiritual philosophy”, if one wants to be more accurate. Scientology is not a “Faith”, however, the CofS sure has seemed to metamorphose into one. lol.

    I want to have nothing to do with a “Faith/Religion”.

    Read … (If you don’t have the original P.A.B., you can find it in the (original) Red Vols, 1954-1956. )

    P . A . B . N o . 8 1
    The Oldest Continuous Publication in Dianetics and Scientology
    Via Hubbard Communications Office
    Brunswick House, 83 Palace Gardens Terrace, London W.8
    24 April 1956

    Here are some quotes of Ron at the time I consider he was a more “gentle Ron”. THIS is the compassionate and frank Spirit I love …

    (Emphasis is mine)

    “Unlike earlier Jesuit successes with native peoples, Protestants’ successes have been few for some reason, possibly because the Jesuit incorporated the religion he found with the religion he brought, and Protestantism remained entirely itself. The spiritual philosophy which should have prepared the way for the proper use of the technology did not succeed.”

    (However, the spiritual philosophy of Scientology HAS prepared the way for the proper use of the technology.)

    “So desperate has Man become that he will buy almost any ideology whether it is communism or druidism. He will buy the garbage of Marx and even write it unsuspectingly into the United States Constitution under the heading of “Income Tax.” (I love that LRH knew this way back in 1956!)

    He will seek solutions to his overpowering problems from indigestible sources such as Russian psychiatry or Wundtian German psychology, neither one of which was intended to free Man or to give him understanding and which were intended only to enslave and debase. Counterfeited ideologies and humanities are not good enough in this age of atomic fission and jet planes. These two alone, unless handled sentiently,
    can bring about the wipe-out of modern Man.”

    “The chance he has is Scientology. We’re giving him that chance and if you do not pass along to him what you know, you yourselves are failing that man, failing yourselves, and failing us. This is Man’s one chance. You must give it to him, otherwise he faces other planets, other times, other elsewheres, but no more here. Scientology is not so much Man’s first science of understanding as his last call to reason.”

    I’ve expounded on my thinking about this in this post …

    By the way Valkov, you ROCK! I agree with most of your posts. Though this subject of discussion has a lot of confusion (and charge) surrounding it by many Scientologists.


    Well you would be surprised that not al Sea Org Members recieve payroll, i remember at a Land Base we didnt recieve any money per 1 month and 2 weeks, and still you needed to look like brilliant, smart, dedicated, energetic, bla bla bla…… But Staff Members at Orgs they need to pay on real world more stuff than SOMs. I remember one day a Class V Org staff called me and ttied to tell me how wonderful was the new book ” Problems of Work” I was not in the mood for a staff trying to sell me again the book, so i asked him: – AND YOU NOW CAN SAY OR PRONOUNCE THE WORDS: “RAISE”??? – refering payroll … as LRH says the only difference between a good and bad secretary some times is when the bad one is able to say : i want a rise, and another rise and another….. Very ironic living inside at any Org, but being Sea Org Member is a whole kind of differente ring of hell, as Dante would say on the “Divine Comedy”.

  183. Miscavige seems somehow been convinced to go the route of NXIVM

  184. martyrathbun09

    Chuck, we need to chat. Please open a free hushmail account and email me at

  185. martyrathbun09

    I think you may be getting too wound up in labels.

  186. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Publius wrote, “But I think LRH would probably gag at the phrase “gentle LRH”.”


    Perhaps. However, what I meant by THE “gentle LRH” was a compassionate LRH.

    I see TWO Beingnesses of LRH. The one I have a lot of affinity for (the “real” one, IMO) is compassionate. The other was ruthless and derogatory (of which I believe was just a valence, and not actually LRH).

    It’s the authentic, compassionate LRH spirit that I grew to love.

    Perhaps, for some, this difference is difficult to perceive or confront. But that’s what I observe in the writings of LRH.

  187. martyrathbun09

    Why does it seem everything appear in simple pairs, either/ors? I saw dozens of different beingnesses of LRH just in the SHSBC lectures alone.

  188. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    OTDT wrote, “When I looked again at the purpose of the Sea Org, being to get ethics in on the planet and the universe, I suddenly saw in a whole new light just how delusional and ridiculous the likelihood of that ever being accomplished really was.”


    Ditto. My viewpoint also.

  189. martyrathbun09

    I disagree.

  190. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    OK. I can totally have your viewpoint. 🙂

  191. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


    Then I would have to disagree with your apparent viewpoint about this. But I can agree to disagree with you on this viewpoint. 🙂

    IMO, ethics can only be accomplished by the individual “getting” ethics in on oneself. A group can’t do this, and the Sea Org can’t “get” ethics in “on the planet”, either.

    The most any group can do is to get justice in on another, and to teach one, without invalidation, judgement, and force, about how one can apply ethics to oneself.

    The difference in the meanings of justice versus ethics gets overlapped and results in confusion in this area. That’s my observation.

    In the “By L. Ron Hubbard”, non-squirrelled edition of “Introduction to Scientology Ethics” that was published in 1968, and reprinted again in 1973, 1974, and 1975, while Ron was still alive, his own definition of Ethics in its glossary is …

    ETHICS: Ethics is reason and the contemplation of optimum survival.

    (Italic emphasis is LRH’s, not mine.)

  192. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    A perfect example of a code of ethics is Scientology’s Code of Honor …

    Here is the preamble to the ethical code itself. Note what LRH says … (Emphasis is mine)

    “No one expects the Code of Honor to be closely and tightly followed.

    An ethical code cannot be enforced. Any effort to enforce the Code of Honor would bring it into the level of a moral code. It cannot be enforced simply because it is a way of life which can exist as a way of life only as long as it is not enforced. Any other use but self-determined use of the Code of Honor would, as any Scientologist could quickly see, produce a considerable deterioration in a person. Therefore its use is a luxury use, and which is done solely on self-determined action, providing one sees eye to eye with the Code of Honor.”

    b>Source – “Scientology 0-8: The Book of Basics”, and “The Creation of Human Ability”

    Interestingly, this code of ethics is totally missing in ALL versions of the “Introduction to Scientology Ethics”, which I find completely bizarre!

    Because the Code of Honor was not more closely followed, the CofS was finally destroyed by a SP despot, IMO.

  193. Thanks Wayne, I at least partly get where you are coming from, because I have always made the distinction in my own mind, of a difference between “religion” and “spirituality”. I and my family were not “church goers” although they had their own chapel and Orthodox priest in the settlement in North Korea where they lived for 25 years. Nonetheless, they were not basically “churchy”. ManyRussians tend to be spiritually and mystically inclined, but not so much for “organized religion”.

    As for the rest of it, I think this blog is not really an appropriate forum for lengthy discusions of all of it. However, if you want to start a thread on The ScientologyForum about it, I would be up for further discussion/clarification. The relationship between “spirituality”, “religiosity”, etc is subject to too many idiosyncratic personal interpretations and “fine distinctions”.

    Otherwise, I stand by my posted comment here.

    Do you actually know whether or not Larry has any sense of a spiritual basis to Scientology philosophy? If he does not, naturally he would feel he helped perpetrate a “fraud”.

    If he had a strong conviction that Scientology has a spiritual basis, then he might not perceive the establishment of the delivery organizations as “churches” as problematic or fraudulent.. He might well feel it was done on a sound basis.

    Beyond these remarks, I will simply recommend to you a book titled “Beyond Belief” by Elaine Pagels. She is one of the world’s premier scholars of Early Christianity. The book is not a long one, but it is full of life and explores how and why certain gospels were excluded from what came to be the Bible, and why others were included.

    I think you will see the problems inherent to creating temporal organizations based on spiritual teachings. The basic problem seems to be that a “church” inevitably ends up being doctrinaire. It ends up subordinating living beings to “policy”.

    I can also highly recommend a book titled “Lost Christianity” by Jacob Needleman. Hetaught, perhaps still does teach, Philosophy at the University of San Francisco I believe. He has written several good books.

    I think idealists in particular have some difficulty confronting what it really takes to survive. The INCENTIVE of being a church was that one could survive better, and thus better deliver the services one intended to have delivered. Worst case, if one was not a church, one might not be allowed to survive at all.

    Read “Beyond Belief”.

  194. This is my own experience along what Marty said – if you truly leave it up to people how they interpret LRH when they read policy (non-Scientologists, even critical) you can get quite an astonishing reaction – two business partners in the middle of a cat and dog fight about how to run the business. I stepped in, parted the two and sat in the middle and translated off the cuff (not even elegantly) the policy on “Basics of Organization” (or whatever the title, Org Series 1).

    Personally, I thought this was “baby food” on organization (though applicable to the situation) and might be too simple and be rejected.

    What was their reaction?

    People DO take it for what it is, apply it to their live and see whether or not it has any relevance and if it does, they take it (a straight-out-of-the-book reaction – “how Scientology grows”, “Intro to the OEC Course”).

    In my case it was total agreement, “LRH is a smart man”, “See, exactly what I had told you … ” (each one telling the other one!), things improving thereafter. (Note: there was no “you must agree with it” attitude, it simply happened to be applicable and they found it useful).

  195. Beautiful!

    A “still in” friend (not really, feels the same way as we do but is a clever cat and a good reason to maintain a certain image) says his stable data are the Axioms, period. Everything else can be deducted thereof.

    Another example of how posts used to be filled. Take a Registrar! London Org in the old days. People used to just put their money on a table and it piled up, because nobody was there to take it. That newby was a real REGISTRAR and people had a person to bring their money to and she would register them. It was a “take the money and record it” function.

  196. I liked Marty”s “sorta …” reply because I sorta meant it this way.

    OTDT, granted you had this impression, I never did. You sorta “quote” Marty and it’s sorta the same when quoting LRH.

    Quotes are sorta the spices used in food but they never are the real meal. The whole has a different flavor from the individual parts.

  197. Actually I was wrong. Hubbard incorporated th e first Church of Scientology in 1953. The first edition of “Advanced Procedure and Axioms” was actually published in 1951.

    This is significant because AP&A is the book that bridges from Dianetics into Scientology, and talks about the Being who underlies the layers of “case”in a human being. (Stated in my words, not necessarily Hubbard’s)

    The discovery of the basic Being is what turned a purely mechanistic technique and theory into a Scientology – a philosophy and practice having a spiritual basis. (If you believe in the existenceof a spiritual being, or perhaps feel yourself to be one, fundamentally. If you don’t. and believe yourself to be a “one-lifer”, that’s OK too).

    I do not know all the details of the early troubles of the Dianetics Foundations etc. You seem to. What did Hubbard actually sell? The rights to the book? The rights to the practice? What? When? To whom? Dox pls.

    My advantage here is, I can and do look at both sides. I have heard at least some of Hubbard’s own testimony through listening to his lectures. Thus I have been in his mind, as well as in the minds of various critics and other viewpoints, through Clambake, ESMB, Atack, Corydon etc. I get the feeling you form your opinion based on your understanding of second-hand evidence. You’ll never get close to the whole truth unless you also let Hubbard testify on his own behalf.

    But of course the only way you can do this is to read/hear Hubbard. Then you would have known it is irrelevant what happened to “rights to dianetics” etc. because the development from Dianetics into Scientology was right there in the earliest materials.

  198. Thanks!

    And thank you for providing this blog for me to post on. Otherwise I would be left with all these thoughts rattling around in my head and nowhere to put them up for admiration!

  199. Great post, metaqual.

  200. CD, truth be told, Hubbard was always on a spiritual path, if not on the specific “religious” path that became the CoS.

    He just had to find a way to broadly communicate what he already knew to as many people as possible. Dianetics was a giant undercut to reach down to the level of the common denominator. That’s why it is in some of the earliest lectures, that he talks the most about OT states. I believe he discovered, as time went on, that OT was above the reality of the general public, at least in the USA.

  201. Lawrence, did you actually watch the video? I am specifically comparing North Korea with RTC, Flag, and the CoS as it is today. I am specifically comparing Kim Il-sung and now his son, KimJong-il, to David Miscavige. I think the resemblances are uncanny. The resemblances of the current practices of Black Dianetics of DM are remarkably like the practices of “brainwashing” as it was done by the North Koreans to American POWs in the 1950s, both in methods and in results.

    I do not know too much about Korean history in a scholarly way, but Iwas born near the North Korean/Manchurian border intoa a”clan” of White Russians who had lived in North Korea for about 25 years. These families had many trusted Koreans pretty much adopted into their clan for more several generations, even when they still lived in Russia. The reason was, they trusted them above all other Asians they knew. So although I don’t actually know much Korean history, I do have some feel for the people themselves, received from my parents and grandparents.

    Koreans are an extremely honorable and loyal people. This is both their strength and perhaps their weakness. This is what Kim Il-sung used to entrap them, much as DM has used the dedication, honor, and dutifulness of Sea Org members to enslave them. And the unfortunate people of North Korea did not even have any knowledge of the Tech to protect them.

    You don’t see that NorthKorea and the CoS are today being run the same way with the same kind of mind control methods? That Pyongyang is full of gigantic “Idle Orgs” sitting there empty of people, waiting only to impress the occasional foreign visitor? That the majority of the population are starving to death, driven to making soup out of tree bark, while “Dear Leader” is well fed?

    If DM, unfettered, ran the country, it would be like that.

  202. That’s right.

    However, in his upcoming “Platinum evolution” of tech, DM is replacing the ARC Triangle with the “Love Bomb Triangle”. This is due to his enduring and elaborate fascination with 3-ways….

    (OK, that’s it! Bad Valkov! Bad dog! Bad!)

  203. Wayne, OTDT, what’s wrong with envisioning and working towards an Ideal Scene? How else does anything ever get done, but to postulate the result and then work toward it?

    Is it better to envision half-clearing the planet? One one-hundredth? One one-millionth? It can only be done one person at a time. Maybe that’s why the contract was for one billion years. That ought to get the idea across that it wasn’t going to happen in a day.

    Yet I understand how that can be used to overwhelm, and has apparently been used to overwhelm. That’s where the Middle Way comes in. It’s gonna take as long as it takes, because we want to have a life too, while we’re doing it.

    Are you familiar with compound interest? It’s the”penny doubled”story. If you double a penny every day for one month, how much money would you have after one month?

    Here’s how it could have worked for Scientology: Starting with one Scientologist in, say, 1950, if you doubled him every YEAR for 31 years, how many Scientologists would you have after 31 years?

    In other words, each Scientologist would need to bring in ONE new person a year….

    The answer is, in 31 years there would be 10,737,418 Scientologists. OOPS! That’s more than the present population of Earth…..

    So, if, starting in 1950, each new personin brought in just ONE new person A YEAR, by 1980 every person on Earth at the time would have been introduced to Scientology….

    If we had started in 1980, by this year, same result. Actually much sooner, as there were many more than one Scientologist in1980 so we would have been starting with many more than one….

    That’s on the basis of bringing in just ONE NEW PERSON per YEAR.

    Can you imagine how many of those would be Clear by now? Quite possibly most of them, no? Millions of Clears, in any case.

    I think that was do-able. It shows how far off the rails we went.

  204. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    Valkov wrote to Lawrence, “You don’t see that NorthKorea and the CoS are today being run the same way with the same kind of mind control methods? That Pyongyang is full of gigantic “Idle Orgs” sitting there empty of people, waiting only to impress the occasional foreign visitor? That the majority of the population are starving to death, driven to making soup out of tree bark, while “Dear Leader” is well fed?

    If DM, unfettered, ran the country, it would be like that.”


    The extent of the evil is too much to confront for a lot of people … especially if you told this to a church Scientologist. You would, sadly, likely get hit with the following violent communication, “That is preposterous! Get out of my face. I refuse to talk to you, you SP!”

    If you told a North Korean the same about their ruling “Great Leader” tyrant, you would likely get that similar violent reaction back, too. I’m sure of it.

    Sorry to say, church Scientologists are so insolated from outside viewpoints and inculcated, they stay blind. And that is exactly how the despot of CofS loves. That’s the only way he can stay in power.

  205. I watched the original Introduction to Scientology by L Ron Hubbard and i red other material. My objections are not about the believe we are spirits.

    My objection is to certain behavior of the founder as to some shorcuts he made regarding his own philosophy and towards his political views and the way he dicarded Darwin.

    One thing: wether I believe in anything does not alter the fact that we in this life right now in the present should behave ourselfs acording to a minimum standard of human descency towards other human beings. That is the minimum of Spirituallital awareness I demand of every human being. I am niot talking about that you have to be a pussy in life but when you find somebody in dire need or notice abuse going on, Do not walk past or let it fester.

    “I do not know all the details of the early troubles of the Dianetics Foundations etc. You seem to. What did Hubbard actually sell? The rights to the book? The rights to the practice? What? When? To whom? Dox pls.”

  206. OK,it’spastmybedtime, and the number I put in is ONLY10 million, not 10 BILLION but you get the idea. It would take only a few more years to reach 10 BILLION…..

    Actually, it would take 41 years, not 31 years, to reach over 10,000,000,000 people in Scientology.

    So starting from 1950, it could have been done in the late 1980s, that the entire population of the planet was reached.

  207. Reference?
    From Lawrence Brennan affidavit (pdf, #29) it looks like Davey took over the All Clear Unit and GO and CMO in ’81. Those units controlled the corporate sortout (iv, v) wherein RTC was created by the Special Unit run directly by Davey and we know who controlled the comm. lines to and from LRH. Even if Davey only just ran off with RTC, he still took control of a splinter group and he was justly declared for it.

  208. Pax tibi~That’s the wise old man that’s on the ethics book cover (I think).

  209. George, they colour-code instruments in surgical theatres now too. It doesn’t replace knowledge, but it’s an additional measure to help avoid mistakes caused by inattention.

  210. That doesn’t negate the point about what DM is doing, of course.

  211. Thank you, Tara! I think it looks weird, like a subliminal. Pax

  212. Wayne, I think you are right that compassionate is a better descriptive term for what you were getting at than is gentle. At least, I think I duplicate you better when you say compassionate.

    I don’t know about “ruthless and derogatory”. To me, that sounds like the JR Ewing character in Dallas. I was never around LRH, so I have no way to know if he displayed either of those characteristics. Clearly, there are plenty of witnesses who have attested that he had a temper, and his displays of anger must have been awesome to behold. But those don’t necessarily add up to ruthless and/or derogatory.

    If he habitually belittled people or humiliated them in public, a la DM, I would definitely think that constituted derogatory behavior and is not a trait I would admire.

    I have to say, though, that right up there with compassion, I admire toughness. A lot. And persistence. And courage in the face of adversity. It is very real to me that indeed, this is a tough universe. Really, really tough, from the very beginning of life on this planet all the way up until the 20th century. Spiritually and materially, we survive, flourish and prosper today largely on the backs of many “tigers”.

    Many times in history, great leaders have had to be tough to the point of ruthlessness in order to attain a greater good. Abraham Lincoln comes to mind as a great leader who was completely single-minded and often ruthless in the conduct of the Civil War, but who also displayed a great deal of compassion along the way.

    I could go into a whole long dissertation on this. But I’ll just end by saying this: in addition to being compassionate, LRH was tough as nails. He was persistent. He was courageous. And I love him for those qualities just as much as anything else.

  213. What a great observation, Marty! You hit the bulls eye with that one.

  214. I have always had a penchant for the subject of ethics. In debate in school, I always started my arguments based on the ethical grounds of the subject first, then got into the stats and minutia later.

    That’s why when I found this blog, and that Marty had blown, and was fighting back… it was a HUGE indication and validation for me. I wasn’t so wrong, supressive, or antything else… nessecarily. 😉 I.G. Ethics left. To me, you don’t find a bigger red freaking flag than that.
    And why others cannot find it in their minds or hearts to ask, how could it be that way?… blows me away.

    Break outta the box, people. Ask yourself,”How could it be that way?” Work the flows and figure things out.

    Samuel, that cracks me up.Registrar actually registering people up for classes? sign up here? WHAT A CONCEPT!!! I love it. So many times on the OEC I had little cogs like that:”Wow! D of P schedules PC’s and Auditors? Qual Sec and HCO Sec are level on the org board? and over Div 7??? Div 6 talks to the public??? Ya know, stuff not done in orgs. Ever. Things like that. 😉 The ED at my old org was Deputy Reg from Above the Shoulder (of the actual reg.) G.I. was her one and only stat. And that was freaking ’91. I can only imagine now.

    So, yeah. LRH was on to something. I think people would be amazed to go back and read things they already “know” in a new unit of time. Very enlightening, I’m sure.

  215. Valkov,
    Nothing wrong with envisioning Ideal Scenes. I’m all for it. It’s probably the easiest and most fun part of working out an Admin Scale. The programs, projects, policies and VFP’s, not so easy.

    Your plan is not unsound and I’ve got no disagreements with what you state here.

  216. Samuel,
    As a Wise consultant, I sat with hundreds of raw clients while they read LRH policy letters and materials in front of me, aloud, while I questioned them as to what their understanding was and how it could apply to them, their lives and businesses, so I’m quite familiar with the varying degrees of understanding, reactions, interpretations, etc. that people experience from reading LRH.

    I’m happy for anyone who gains in any way from reading or applying the tech and winning from it.

  217. Marty,
    Yup, I read your earlier post on that guy’s take. I’m glad he achieved a simple, workable understanding.

    With regards to the seriousness, I get your take on it. I agree, it’s gotten way too serious, which leads to all it’s ramifications, including solidity, altered importances, less space, more mass, less flow, lower tone, penalties and punishments, diminishing abilities through invalidations, etc. The road to darkness.

    However, looking at KSW One, again, for the thousandth time, I think LRH was getting very serious about the points he makes in the policy. He does say, “This policy means what it says”, under IMPORTANT NOTE.

    He uses the following terms and descriptions to get his point across: “ferocity”, “hammering”, “ruthlessly”, “instant attack”, “merciless”, “state of shock”, “nightmares”, “win or die”, “rather have you dead”, “deadly serious”, etc.

    With, “This policy letter means what it says” in mind, and operating on the meaning and flavor of the terms used in the PL, I can see how a group charged with the purpose of getting in the points of KSW in order to salvage everyone in the universe could crank the volume up to eleven and develop a ferocious, ruthless, merciless force of totally insane unreasonableness to hammer out any outpoint, induce states of shock, make it deadly serious (with corresponding penalties), and etc., just like he states in the PL, especially if led by a PC-Punching Perverted Punk.

    You’re saying that the church has perverted and abused this PL. I agree wholeheartedly. But glaringly, LRH set the melody on this tune with the way he wrote that issue. And there are many others, aside from DM, who have a totally fanatical, unreasonable viewpoint of extreme seriousness about this and that it is to be applied exactly, to every piece of tech within the purview of the philosophy, including ethics, tech and admin, as they think it’s their absolute duty to do so, just as he says in the issue.

    My own son was run out of Scientology at Flag as a new student by being tortured for weeks, over and over and over on the word-clearing of KSW, before he could even get a chance to be introduced to the very materials which KSW was referring to that he would be expected to apply properly. In practice, that approach is not workable. A gradient level of understanding and application is necessary.

    Based on your standpoint, you are saying that LRH would have expected these KSW points to be applied in an uptone, insouciant manner? OK.

    I actually have first-hand experience with this going back to the 70’s. I was a SCN exec over Tech. The Comm Course supervisors had developed into obsessed word-clearing fanatics with all raw public on HCOB Training Drills Modernized. Most of the students would cave in and blow before getting to the TRs. Too steep a gradient, altered importance. Robotic application. No results from the TRs because they never got to do them.

    Fed up, I told the sups to knock it off, quit the fanatical destructive actions and just get ’em through the theory and get ’em doing TRs. Soon, students were getting blown out for real by doing the TRs, started buying Life Repair, graduating and buying the academy levels. The way it should have been.

    I received stacks of commendations and accolades from up and down the org board, until it was discovered by me and other execs that the sups, to make me wrong, had taped over a bunch of words on the bulletin so they wouldn’t have to word clear the students on them. When I found out they were doing this, I put a stop to it and made them remove their alteration and obfuscation of the material. But if the words were there, they were adamant about the word clearing and so it was back to bad square one and the stats crashed.

    I was comm eved for the mess and for ‘allowing’ the taping over of words on the bulletin. It got very, very serious. I don’t think the courseroom ever recovered and definitely never got the wins and products that were coming off the line when importances and gradients were in place like I had them.

    I like your attitude of insouciance in this matter and the rare times I’ve run across it in SCN management, it was a cool breeze of fresh air and a luscious taste of joyous ice cream, topped off with a mound of hope for a brighter future.

    Believe me, I get it.

  218. I got to hang out at an org with him in the 70’s for a couple of weeks and I thought he was an insouciant, on-source, effective, fun and productive guy. I don’t think the Sea Org is very good at detecting brain tumors among their staff.

  219. martyrathbun09

    I don’t think it has to be that way. I read KSW as a technical injunction, made into firm, emphatic policy. I think I have become rather tolerant. But I am not very civil when I see someone grossly altering workable technology and calling it Scientology. I am trying to convey that by reading far and wide, increasing one’s grasp of philosophy, religion, even history, one will a) be able to discuss Scientology meaningfully with people whether they like it or hate it, b) have a much better understanding of Scientology itself and a greater respect for technology/procedure/methodology for practice, c) have a greater appreciation for, and understanding of, people and society in general, d) be saner, happier, and more effective.

  220. Summer Wind,
    CCHRinitially did some goodwork, but I believe that CCHR has been left to “twist slowly in the wind” by the IAS. I have heard that whenever CCHR has asked for IAS grants to do some useful work to reform psychiatry, or to help people who had received poor treatment, the IAS denied any funding.

    Perhaps this is what drove CCHR to desperate actions like setting up the traveling Museum of Death. IAS refused to give them any funding to follow up on any initiative.

    You are quite right about Miscavige not giving a crap either way. Back in 1991 he (the CoS) ran full-page ads in USA Today attacking Prozac and Eli Lilley, among other subjects. The ads did drive the value of Lilley stock down at the time.

    At a subsequent Event about the ad campaign, Miscavige bragged about accepting money from Eli Lilley in return for promising Scientology would not ever again publicly attack them. He stated “we were well pleased” to get this “settlement”, which he said would be used to help expand Scientology. Hahaha. Good luck with that.

    I recall feeling shocked at the time, because “accepting money” is defined as Treason in Scientology Ethics. In other words, giving up your integrity for money. Turned out that is exactly what Miscavige has been all about from the start.

    He uses the scare tactic exactly as you say, and it has continued to work for him – but hopefully less and less as time goes on. The IAS, which is Miscavige’s private “fundraising” money scam, has not delivered on any of it’s promised campaigns since then, and folks are catching on.

  221. I agree. Hubbard many times referred to Scientology as an “applied religious philosophy”.

  222. Thanks for the link. I will have to follow the links within the linked page, as that is pretty sketchy as far as details go.

    I was responding to what I thought was your implication that Hubbard developed the concept of Scientology as simply a new way to “get back in the game” make money, after he lost control of his Dianetic organization.

    I do not think that is true. Simply looking at the materials (books and lectures) in sequence shows quite clearly that the evolution from Dianetics to Scientology came from within, and was not determined by any outside circumstances.

    Actaually, I think everything that came later is already in DMSMH in some form. For example, the idea of the Thetan or the Basic Being is already there in the section about “basic personality” in DMSMH, and also in the “Evolution of a Science” book.

    Standards of behavior did not seem to be the issue in the post I was responding to, but since you bring it up, here’s my take on it: IF Hubbard
    “misbehaved” sometimes, it has nothing to do with the value of Scientology. He might not be the first genius in history who made great discoveries or a great creation, at the same time as he had even perhaps serious character flaws.

    One really has nothing to do with the other. Some psychiatrists have said that genius is close to madness and sometimes both occur in the same person. I’m nor saying I think Hubbard was mad, but even if he was, it would not invalidate any great discoveries or creations of his.

    It is a false and illogical argument, to say “He was of poor character, therefore he could not have discovered or created anything of value.” One has nothing to do with the other. It only reveals your own prejudice. You don’t like the man for what you know of his behavior, therefore… What?

    A man can be a genius painter/artist, composer, scientific or mathematical or philosophical genius, and yet behave badly in some ways. What does one have to do with the other?

    Let’s stick to the subject and discuss one or the other, or even both, but let’s be clear they are separate realms of investigation. Hubbard could have been the worst blackguard in the universe, yet his philosophical discoveries and applications could be perfectly valid.

  223. You areright, but,

    “my beating of them will continue until they wake up!” 🙂

  224. Pax Tibi~I agree…kind of ghastly.

  225. Pretty spot on assessment Valkov ol’buddy.

    I’d also like to add that it’s funny how the Church of Squirrelotology is beginning to look more like EST every day.

    All these pointless seminars.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if sooner or later that they offered ‘A Course on Miracles’ as well and maybe a little shock treatment on the side.


    So much for the Ship of Fools AKA the Freewinds.

  226. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    martyrathbun09wrote, “I think you may be getting too wound up in labels.”

    OK. I have no problem with you having that evaluation (judgement) of me. 🙂

    But as a writer, it does sound (to me) absurd that one could ever be “too wound up” in words. lol. (IMO, I don’t believe LRH would ever say that.)

    Of course, “labels”, more definitively, “words” … have specific meanings which are meant to communicate something with the intention of clarity.

    I have a very, very high respect for words (which you’re calling “labels”) and their power of influence. Being a copywriter, I know the power of words. They make all the difference between result or no result, understanding or no understanding.

    Words (“labels”) are a way one is able to communicate effectively. The better the choice of words, the more precisely one communicates, and the lessor chance for misunderstanding.

    Anybody who has taken the challenge to write to sell knows exactly what I’m talking about. The exact words they write determine one’s success or failure in selling.

    It’s the difference between a good copywriter and a bad one, or a good writer and a bad writer. The choice of words determines the level of engagement of the reader and their understanding.

    Yes, I have a deep, deep respect for “labels” (words).

    If I’m “accused” of being “too wound up” in words? Then I’m “guilty” as charged! 🙂

  227. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")

    martyrathbun09 wrote, “Why does it seem [everything] appear in simple pairs, either/ors?”


    That’s about as big of vague generality as I’ve ever heard.

    I can’t argue a generality except to state that it’s a generality.

  228. Wayne Froemke (AKA "Safe")


    Good. I’m happy that you see what I really meant. My faillure in communicating is a perfect example of the importance of “just” a single word.

    Gentle versus Compassionate. (Can mean something way different in another mind)

    I violated the clarity commandment in writing. My bad. 🙂

    Toughness (or tough as nails). There’s another word/phrase that can be easily misunderstood, too.

    Toughness as in “ready to fight at anytime”, “a hardened thick-skinned soul who has no compassion”.


    Toughness as in “determined”, “persistant”, “strong moral character”

    I don’t really prefer to use that word myself because it’s so vunerable to many different definitions which can create a misunderstanding.

    I try to use more precise words. When I said gentle, that wasn’t one of them. lol. Still learning language and its use in clear communication. 🙂

  229. martyrathbun09

    I’m not your secretary. Go through your posts and you’ll find plenty. I’m trying to perhaps introduce you to the broad, beautiful, panoramic view of the world of infinity logic.

  230. Wayne~You are fantastic with words – you copywriter you!
    But I believe a different definition of “label” applies here.

  231. Joe Pendleton

    Bozz, you make some very good points and I hope I also communicated what I thought was not only very good in the ethics system, but what was absolutely necessary to keep auditing and training working and the org safe to deliver in, as well as personal wins I’ve had with the conditions.

    I also am in synch with Marty’s statement of ethics being a way to sort out what is the survival actions to take in life.

    I’m just saying that with all I like in the ethics system, I also think the overall system (ALL parts of it as a whole) is not a workable system and in fact, is open IN THE WAY IT IS DESIGNED to all the abuses that you see. Of course, we could say that ANY claim of “unworkability” should be challenged as per KSW as its bad results are consequences of mis-application due to mu’s, ptsness, out-ethics, etc. Which can certainly be the case of course (and I don’t doubt that this is often the case).

    But the ethics system cannot be compared to auditing tech, which is workable per tech BY ORDER OF MAGNITUDES more than ethics tech (and by ethics tech, I mean the whole system with the lists of high crimes, comm evs, ethics officers, non enturb orders, etc etc etc – all of it).

    I was a CS for 11 years and a successful auditor too. I can tell you that auditing tech is SO workable that if an auditor has his TRs and code in and knows the basics, auditing will work greatly EVEN when many mistakes are made. It is SO powerful that Marty got Sweeney in session within a minute or two and I know he could have audited him right there – though Sweeny being A-J (not there for greater knowingness through auditing for one thing) would not be a “perfect pc” to audit.

    As a CS, per LRH, I ALWAYS CSd against standard application of tech, not results and would NOT audit a PTS PC. But as to results and workability? TREMENDOUS. 99.5% of all sessions ending in wonderful wins for pcs. AND I CS’D FOR STUDENT AUDITORS (every now and then for pros, but mostly I was a training CS). THAT’S how workable auditing tech is.

    Ethics “tech”? (and I’m talking about the overall system, not one application of a condition by a person or one handling) My observation is that the org would have been better with just a person making sure pc’s PTSness was handled and as a help to staff with problems to handle. But the SYSTEM as set up by LRH was MOSTLY A BARRIER to doing the job and a royal pain in the ass to getting the job of training and auditing people done. Why? Stats (oh, stats!!!!) used to get on people, punish them, threaten them, coerce them, create overt products……..conditions used to punish and shame…”justice” actions like Comm Evs used as instruments of nullifying “trouble makers” (people who challenged management) and…….INEVITABLY those using the ethics system to fuck up other people were ALWAYS the biggest assholes in the Org – believe me, the org would have usually run better if the ED and OES, etc would have just been on holiday all the time. And if I’m not talking about the ethics officers themselves who were usually good guys.

    THIS is what happened in the 70s – what I observed. And it’s obviously MUCH worse now. Read the post of a few months ago here about Lisa and Mark Hamilton of ASHO – he a wonderful supe. The same flawed system abused over and over. And yeah, I think LRH abused it too (Roos, Mayo for examples). Of course the system has worked OCCASIONALLY – well, communism has improved some conditions in countries too.

    Now, since I was in one of the largest orgs in the world for many, MANY years and didn’t observe the system working and it’s not working in Scientology now, what makes it workable? Lots of writings that make sense on paper, but are never able to actually, consistently be put into practice. Just because Ron put it together? So, we can’t evaluate it analytically? We can’t ever say it wasn’t good? Well, I’m saying in MY observation/opinion, LRH missed the mark BADLY re: justice. It’s the low point in the history of Scientology and the dark side. He overshot the mark a lot on his estimation of the kind of beings who would run such a show and he missed badly on safeguards against the actions of how brutal people can so EASILY take over and misuse the system (easily APPARENTLY – Miscavige just kinda DID it…but I observed many others abuse it too).

    Again, optimum survival, conditions applied by oneself to improve life, handling PTSness – great.

  232. Cool breeze.

  233. I didn’t quote Marty, I pointed to the link on his home page entitled, What We Do.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s