Miscavige Meltdown – the Proof

356 responses to “Miscavige Meltdown – the Proof”

1. Heather G | October 13, 2010 at 2:22 pm |

   There’s no way I’m listening to that. Ugh.

   You did well, Mike.

2. Krautfag | October 13, 2010 at 2:26 pm |

   Wow, Jenny Linsen is one piece of work and was obviously the bitch in charge for that op.

   This is wrong on so many levels, I don’t even know where to start.
   Nice job on keeping the composure, Mike.

   And, btw, that is great DOXing 🙂

3. lucy | October 13, 2010 at 2:35 pm |

   Wow – how NOT to follow LRH’s “The Way To Happiness! This is David Miscaviage’s tech in the real world!

4. Fidelio | October 13, 2010 at 2:38 pm |

   I love seeing the screws turned. Thank you all.
   Fidelio

5. David from England | October 13, 2010 at 2:41 pm |

   “You cock sucking piece of shit.”
   What a great advertisement for a spiritual regime. I must find out more about this path myself; it might help me become a better human being.

6. Tom | October 13, 2010 at 2:46 pm |

   Wow! Dave really missed his calling…..he could make a fortune training Pit Bulls! ….er…wait….

   I gotta hand it to Mike for keeping his TR’s in….and for John Sweeney for keeping the tape rolling.

   If this is representative of the “Top of the Grade Chart”…….omfg.

7. Watching Eyes | October 13, 2010 at 2:51 pm |

   The weird part is that Cathy Rinder’s “fucker” just comes out of nowhere. Then the others follow suit with their favorite word……..fuck. To think these are people with high standing in a “religious” organization is mind blowing. They come off like a bunch of Longshoremen having a bar room brawl on a Saturday night.

   note to dwarf: You might want to think about bringing back the Key To Life course. Your lapdogs could use some education & just might learn some new words. The Primary Rundown would be a big help too.

   I bet John Sweeny couldn’t believe his good fortune to happen to be on the other end of the phone and get this on tape.

8. Samuel | October 13, 2010 at 3:03 pm |

   Thanks for posting the full transcript (needed!) together with the audio – it’s always best to get the original.

   What a psychotic type of “conversation”. Mike, your calmness only MAGNIFIES the psychotic behavior for everyone to see. So much for sub-standard zero TR “mangling” – all in reverse.

   Unfortunately, lower echelons copy in their “handlings” (on a public front and in private, i.e. ethics and justice – insert quotes around these misnomers at your leasure) what Ripe To Crack (RTC) goons display.

   Meltdown – Ripe to Crack!

9. TEG | October 13, 2010 at 3:19 pm |

   Mike-

   I get this strange feeling that we may have to call in a priest to start doing group exorcisms for these followers of the (D)emonic (M)idget. The girls sound possessed.

   As such, I haven’t heard such gutter language from “ladies” since I watched a Jerry Springer show. (Or was that when I made a wrong turn into a trailer park where a breeding experiment had gone terribly wrong?)

   In any case, you’re one cool cat Mike. As Sweeney would say, “Carry on!”

   Tom

10. OTDT | October 13, 2010 at 3:20 pm |

    Ha ha ha ha!

11. splog | October 13, 2010 at 3:22 pm |

    Heather,

    I did listen to it and it is what you think, so no need to go and prove it for yourself without a doubt. I kinda wish I hadn’t listened but I’m glad I did, because it’s an “uncomfortable truth”.

    What does that mean?

    10 years ago I talked in that tone a lot. The intensity was less, I didn’t keep it up as long and the number of profanities a second was less. But it was the same thing and almost certainly had the same root cause. So I *really* needed to hear that and compare it to my memories. Ugh. Step 2 was to pay attention to Mike as a good example of how it should be done.

    Life is funny sometimes and everyone has their own unique issues. Mine is that I’ve done lots of TRs over the years and they are still not flat. I still have trouble using this ordinary thing called talking nicely to most people most of the time. It’s not all bad – there is progress. But it’s not a one-shot solution either. I’ll get there, one little step at a time.

    ALan.

12. Joe Howard | October 13, 2010 at 3:23 pm |

    One thing for sure, Mike gets a pass on his Admin TRs, especially bullbait! As for the others, well, ED Int apparently had sense enough to keep his mouth shut. As for Jenny, Cathy and Taryn, welcome to your internet legacy, girls! Courtesy of your impeccable timing you have achieved cyber-immortality.

13. Patricia Curtis | October 13, 2010 at 3:36 pm |

    “CR: For what?

    MR: To save you.”

    Beautiful.

14. OTDT | October 13, 2010 at 3:37 pm |

    It’s easy to see that this assault on Mike was planned out and probably drilled. All the attackers use the same canned pitch. I wouldn’t be surprised if their mission was based on some new ‘You Fucker!’ Drill created by DM, with him coaching them to a pass only when they reached a level of viciousness to satisfy his bloodlust and when JL’s voice actually broke glass and CR’s vocal frequency caused nerve damage and made cats howl in pain.

    On the other side of the theta coin, Mike passes the drill with a VWD by not flinching a bit. There’s great humor in the fact that it was all spontaneously recorded by the BBC.

    THIS is what top international management considers communication???
    Complete covert hostility bubbling over into anger with the intention to harm. Good lord, this incident is a manifestation of the truth of Marty’s statement that the church is dead. I take it that this type of behavior is but a drop in the bucket of slime of what occurs around DM and his vampirettes in the name of ‘handlings’ and ‘management’ and ‘ethics’.

    Wow, oh wow, oh wow.

15. Brett | October 13, 2010 at 3:38 pm |

    Great job Mike! Whatever you said to Benjamin should be spread far and wide for all to help educate other current followers in the herd. It’s obvious to me that what you told Benjamin must have impinged, else there wouldn’t be so much emphasis on “leaving him alone.” It’s also obvious that the “screaming victim” viewpoint was exercised by all your attackers… WOW! you must have a really big thetan! :0)

16. Pericles | October 13, 2010 at 3:38 pm |

    An interesting observation here is that the only people who weren’t swearing were Mike Rinder and John Sweeney. They represented themselves as gentlemen and didn’t fall into the pit of degradation. Almost everyone else seemed to have forgotten how to communicate with the English language.
    I am really glad that Marty spelled it all out here in this very exact transcription for all to see the TRUTH. And Mike Rinder, I have to hand it to you for carrying this off as the true spokesperson for LRH. No longer the spokesperson for the Church of $cientology, but one of the true spokespeople for the resurgence of LRH Technology. I never heard LRH swear like these supposed ‘$cientology’ execs are swearing in this transcript. He would never use swear words to express him self or carry a message across to his audience.
    Hells Bells, these people are really talking from their reactive minds and these guys are Executives of the Church communicating their banks to the world….and they don’t care who hears it?
    That right there is an accurate testimony of where Miscavige and his wrecking crew is leading his group. Very sad, actually.
    Thank you again Marty for what you do and what you are doing for us and LRH and Planet Earth.

17. Dylan G | October 13, 2010 at 3:47 pm |

    From HCO BULLETIN OF 23 JANUARY 1974 THE INTROSPECTION RD:
    “The purpose of the Introspection RD is to locate and correct those things which cause a person to fixate his attention inwardly, on himself or his bank. This RD extroverts the person so that he can see his environment and therefore handle and control it.”

    By corollary The purpose of the Severe Reality Adjustment is to cause a person to fixate his attention inwardly, on himself or his bank. This introverts the person so that he cannot see his environment and therefore can neither handle nor control it. The SRA puts a person into a state of Robotism where they refrain from action due to fear of causing harm and follow the orders of the oppressor without question.
    2. Enforce wrong indications and wrong whys.
    3. ARC breaks. These are caused by putting generalizations into the environment such as unnamed government plants, unlocated SPs and unidentfied squirrels. Justice actions are used containing generalizations to make actions incomprehensible to members.
    4. Withholds. The number of crimes that a person can commit even includes bad thoughts. This ensures that no-one can possibly exist in the environment without having withholds and justifies the incessant enforcing of confessionals.
    5. False incidents. People are questioned excessively on subjects such as PDH until they wonder if they might have forgotten the implant which makes them commit “overts” against their oppressor.
    6. False interrogation.
    7. False invalidation.
    8. False validation. Validate the person for things which are not actually worthy of praise such as following “Command Intention”.
    9. Hit for no reason. Just smack them occasionally for no reason at all.
    10. Invalidated beingness. Are you really a member of the group or a downstat or plant or … .
    11. Invalidate intentions.

    The final step of the Introspection Rundown is Objective Havingness. One of the first steps of Black Scientology is the denial of Objective Havingness.

    The keys to maintaining an individual in a state of robotic PTSness are the denial of Beingness, Doingness and Havingness while enforcing unwanted Beingness, Doingness and Havingness.

    Above are listed the main tools which David Miscavage has used to maintain control of Scientology.

    great job on not giving in to the transparent attempt to cave you in Mike. I really hope that your family wakes up.

18. Just Me | October 13, 2010 at 4:01 pm |

    Mike,

    The first thing this recording says to me is that Mike Rinder tells the truth. If we compare this recording of the conversation to the post you made about it on April 24, it’s exactly as what you described went down. Yes, Krautfag said it: This is DOX. And anybody who doubted the events of that day can GTFO.

    The second thing this recording reveals is that you are a cool customer and can keep your TRs in. I could not have done as well as you did. As Marty advised the other day, if anyone is harassed by PIs, church officials, etc., it is best to keep our TRs in and not freak out. You have demonstrated, under very heavy fire, how not to freak out. Thank you so much for the positive role model.

    With much respect,
    Just Me

19. Impartial English Girl | October 13, 2010 at 4:08 pm |

    I have seen and heard some (non-Scientology) stuff in my time but THAT is one of the most revolting things it has ever been my misfortune to hear – I can only imagine how dreadful it must have been for Mr. Rinder. It must have been terribly upsetting for the folk in the doctor’s surgery.

    I would have LOVED to see the looks of the faces of these harpies if, during their bizarre “interview” with Anderson Cooper he’d suddenly whipped out a tape recorder and started playing this back to them.

20. Tara | October 13, 2010 at 4:13 pm |

    😦 Sad that your brother and daughter felt obliged to “help” you like this. Obviously they weren’t up to the task – or should I say, down to the task like the other ones.

21. Tony DePhillips | October 13, 2010 at 4:16 pm |

    How can I get one of those super duper SP handlings from DM?? IF this is an example of DMs contribution to Scientology I can see why the stats are crashing! DM you are a stat crasher.

22. Lawrence | October 13, 2010 at 4:21 pm |

    In the circuitry of what is now Scientology there is no better way to handle an alleged traitor than to bring that person’s family along for the ride.

    Why Scientologists are so easily led is in the words of L. Ron Hubbard:
    “Most people get so confused by all the lies around they come to believe anything they’re told and that’s the reason the suppressive lies”.

    Thank you Mr. Hubbard, you took the words right out of my mouth. Now if only the Church of Scientology could take the hint.

23. Dave Adams | October 13, 2010 at 4:25 pm |

    Severe Reality Adjustment attempted by people with a limited connection to reality.

    That was upsetting to listen to. I normally don’t get that agitated, heavy feeling, but this stirred stuff up! Luckily I can take a walk and be destimmed in a few minutes….too bad the folks attacking Mike cant. That is sad.

    It didn’t sound as if the ambushers had any real intention of two way communication. And in fact I doubt if they were even delivering there own communication, but something IMPLANTED on them.

    Hang in there Mike. Things will change! I postulate everyone involved in the audio will be able to laugh about it some day. They are not the enemy, but the people we need to help.

24. Freetothink | October 13, 2010 at 4:40 pm |

    Wasn’t somebody concerned about you delivering “violent communication” recently? LOL

    Mike you were as cool as a cucumber. The Champion of cool in those circumstances 🙂

    I had read your account of it but I have to say it did not give the real thing justice! Thanks for sharing.

    Marie-Joe

25. Panda | October 13, 2010 at 4:41 pm |

    What a zoo the CofS has become! That was very hard to listen to.
    I first read the transcipt with an element of disbelief that it could really get this crazy, then I listened to the tape and realised it’s crazier than I thought.
    Mike, I’m sorry that you had to endure this attack, especially from family members, but well done on keeping your cool.
    Hopefully some good will come from the exposure of these tactics here.
    Cheers, Panda

26. Pericles | October 13, 2010 at 4:43 pm |

    BTW, I just noticed that the second link to which you refer readers to click on misdirects to another page. You might want to check that out. And OPERATION CLAMBAKE HAS BEEN DISSOLVED, DISCONTINUED FOR SOME STRANGE REASON. DMBOTS and their wondrous shenanigans.

27. Haydn | October 13, 2010 at 4:43 pm |

    The attack gang had been following Mike for some days, so obviously had been briefed by Miscavige to choose their moment very carefully, when the ratio was seven to one and the element of surprise the greatest which of course is step one in Miscavige’s play book, Implanting for Dummies.

    Apart from showing how thoroughly nuts things have become in DM’s “church” (because this is exactly what it’s like these days) it shows how big a coward Miscavige truly is. Normally, when he jumps someone its a single victim attacked by him plus 6.

    So where was Miscavige? Clearly, even with odds of 7 to 1, he didn’t have the balls to show up for this one.

28. Centurion | October 13, 2010 at 4:47 pm |

    Marty and Mike,

    What’s so wrong with what Cathy, Jenny and company are doing? I mean, just yesterday I saw a Catholic priest and 5 alter boys chasing an ex nun and calling her a “slut”, a “sellout”, and a “mother” (because she left to have kids). And I saw a Buddhist monk kicking the living crap 0ut of another who was trying to route out of a monestary in lower Mongolia. And low and behold, I witnessed a group of transendental meditators at the local TM center ripping the beads and flowers away from a person who decided to leave staff because he saw his time was up and wanted to explore life elsewhere. And I saw an ex Mormon get gang tackeld by men in black suits and wearing sunglasses as he tried to order a cup of coffee at the local Denny’s.

    Come on, this stuff happens all the time in the spiritual practices of the world, yes?? It was completely normal for members of the Church of Scientology to decend on Mike and just tear him up! Come on now, it’s common practice! It’s normal! It happens all the time! Marty, I disapprove of you trying to malign the actions of such sane and upstanding members of Scientology.

    All of us should aspire to acting in such ways, since society expects such.

    In fact, I think that all independent practicioners of Scientology should immediately hire PI’s and surveille and harrass all PC’s who later refuse to return for services within a reasonable time. They must have CI and are associating with other people and practices.

    Why am I the only one who sees this!

    I mean,,,what is the world coming to??????… arrrrrrgggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I have to go. A Jehova’s Witness just knocked on my door and he is beaten and bloody and is asking for help. He now needs a blood transfusion. I’ll see what I can do, but the outlook is grimm. Huge stacks of pamphlets are being hurled at my house and torches are being prepared.

    This may be my last blog entry….

    Dave…..you are (cough cough)…….our only…..hope…(cough cough cough)…..finish……super power……………..(cough cough)…..(ppfiisistt)

29. SK | October 13, 2010 at 4:48 pm |

    They all speaketh madman Miscaviges’ tongue — foul words seething blame with absolutely nothing accomplished but enturbulation.

30. lunamoth | October 13, 2010 at 4:56 pm |

    Ah, yes, the value of training…

    Not the kind where, through study and application of certain truths about the nature of the spirit, you come to understand the human mind and by applying certain learned techniques, including flawless communication, bring about an increased awareness and resurgence of self-determinism in the being. No, more like the kind where you browbeat and nullify a gang of otherwise well-intended beings into behaving like a pack of rabid dogs, degrading themselves in an attempt to cave-in and degrade another being.

    This is truly the very antithesis of the scientology I knew.

31. Pete Sagi | October 13, 2010 at 5:01 pm |

    Sounds like its Coolaide time.

    Pete

32. metaqual | October 13, 2010 at 5:09 pm |

    I know it is not intended on your part, but everytime someone refers to DM as a “dwarf” it is insensitive to “Little People” and even more so, it is insulting to them to be pejoratively compared to DM. Little People are very mysterious and it is difficult to search into their history and even the “tiny homes” where they live. They will, however, help you if you are nice to them and considerate. Leave out some spirits or candy for them in your garden or a garden and see what happens! I’m not kidding. Little People meet once a year at a Little People’s Convention in Salt Lake City. Strange bedfellows!
    If treated right, the Little People might help us with the DM cause. They will be around those beautiful gardens at the Int Base.

33. martyrathbun09 | October 13, 2010 at 5:13 pm |

    Ditto that.

34. eddieVroom | October 13, 2010 at 5:13 pm |

    lol Really.

35. martyrathbun09 | October 13, 2010 at 5:16 pm |

    Dan, You can bet Guillaume and Bloomberg are toast as of this this afternoon. When DM sees this transcript and that they did not pile on with attack dog Jenny they will be for it.
    Sue Wilhere will likely get a pass by perkily spouting out some profundity like “Sir, you ARE Scientology.”

36. Samuel | October 13, 2010 at 5:17 pm |

    Addendum:

    LISTENED to the audio and get a feel for the “mood”(even though you might be a foreigner and not understand a word)

    Now, (re)read Mike’s account of this incident on this blog

    https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/miscavige-meltdown/

    Do you agree with me that Mike is definitely UNDER-stating the viciousness clearly audible in the recording (though the words are not).

    Now, go to the Freakdom [sic!] Magazine and read its version of the “same” incident – I know Marty, you got standards, but let me post the link 🙂

    http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/mike-rinder-a-walking-hate-crime.html

    Scroll down to the 2 pictures of Cathy’s arms, jump up a few paragraphs and start reading their version (I’m actually laughing out loud while I’m typing this as it soooo hilariously twists what you have just heard – it’s not even up to the standards of tabloid journalism).

    GREAT tool for a doubt formula, if anybody needs one.

    As an aside:

    The Freakdom Magzaine isn’t really an advertisement for the workability of the tech either. What about Dianetics Assists, Auditing, Touch Assists etc. – aren’t they using it anymore and if so, don’t they work in your paws? An old-time Dianetics Auditor once told me that he saw deep burn marks – the PATTERN of a hot iron – on the hands of his PC disappear in one session.

    The pictures of the hurt arm in this mag are some 4 weeks apart. Did they “preserve” the damage so they can “show” something? When was the last time you saw a doctor quoted in a Scientology magazine as the authority on how long (in this case “months”) a wound will take to heal?

    The (actual) Freedom Magazine used to be OFFENSIVE PR – it’s typical targets were psychiatry, corruption etc. Now, it is exclusively DEFENSIVE “PR”, and horrible at that.

    DM, seems you have reversed everything!
    So your initials should be MD instead (medieval demon)

    Still laughing, Samuel

37. martyrathbun09 | October 13, 2010 at 5:20 pm |

    Thanks Samuel. I agree with you. The material provided in my post, compared with Freakdom is all any half-way intelligent person would need to do a real doubt formula.

38. Valkov | October 13, 2010 at 5:22 pm |

    Yes, Thank You for posting this “Descent into Bedlam”. It truly sounds like you had walked into an insane asylum of the Dark Ages.

    It is just inconceivable for normal, social people to think it is OK to act like that, especially in public.

    Didn’t LRH say that at the point where a thetan became fixed on trying to “stop” things, is where, for that person, psychosis begins? It is a tragedy, and complete proof of how far the Church of Miscavige has fallen.

39. Bryon | October 13, 2010 at 5:26 pm |

    Real “dead agent” tech uses real, provable documentation. For once, I see it done right! I’m going to take a walk now to destimulate. Thank you Mike for your excellent work. I certainly couldn’t have done as well.

40. aotc | October 13, 2010 at 5:31 pm |

    Y’know I think these people are really gonna need Mike’s forgiveness when they finally wake up. Imagine having that overt on your track.

41. Samuel | October 13, 2010 at 5:32 pm |

    🙂 🙂 Hilarious 🙂 🙂

42. Joe Howard | October 13, 2010 at 5:35 pm |

    That is a hilarious post. I bet Idle Org wishes he’d written it!

43. Mat Pesch | October 13, 2010 at 5:37 pm |

    No matter what language you speak or what your education background is, if you know the words “fuck” and “fuck you” its possible to follow most inter-staff Sea Org conversations.
    I have talked to many Sea Org veterans who left and got jobs in the real world and they found it a refreshing shock to see how nice people treated each other, despite deadlines.
    These “churches”, which are supposed to be “islands of sanity” have become pockets of over-restimulated insanity. The closer the pockets are to Miscavige, the greater the restimulation and insanity. The biggest pocket of all is found between Miscavige’s ears.

44. becomingAware | October 13, 2010 at 5:43 pm |

    They were and are so far down so many scales that they cannot even see it and that is exactly where DM wants them!

    They can only use Force to communicate with almost certainly because that is the way they have been communicated to for so long they are no longer in their own valance.

    Mike – very coolly handled.

45. Carol | October 13, 2010 at 5:44 pm |

    Mike, this entire thing is so disgusting. It is so obvious that Cathy has just completely lost it. I truly don’t know what it is going to take for these people to step back and look. I just know for myself there comes a breaking point with all people. I suppose they (Cathy, your brother, Daughter and Son) have not reached it yet.

    The part that truly surprises me is that the above mentioned people could even believe this is a church that they chose to belong to.

46. Grasshopper | October 13, 2010 at 5:49 pm |

    At least your vocabulary will get a bit spiced up…

47. Dean Blair | October 13, 2010 at 5:51 pm |

    Wow! I listened and read in complete disbelief that this could ever happen. It was like an episode from the Jerry Springer Show with all the white trash and uneducated individuals who show up to entertain the audiences.

    David Miscavige never even finished high school and I can understand his lack of vocabulary but from all of these others it would seem that they too have gone down to his level in their use of such vulgarities.

    This is so appalling that these “OTs” and “Church leaders” have to communicate in such a base and degrading manner. I thought OTs were supposed to be cause over matter, energy, space, time, and thought. These people are not even cause over language.

48. Fidelio | October 13, 2010 at 5:51 pm |

    Clicked into the Mag – and I am stunned. It’s beyond of beyond any contempt. That’s what they have the Mag turned into???
    No comment.
    Fidelio

49. Grasshopper | October 13, 2010 at 5:55 pm |

    MQ – for the record, I personally never called Mr. David Miscavige (I love doing that!) a “dwarf”. The problem with comparing him to anything is that you diminish what you compare him to.

    After this recording, I will start referring to him as a “C**k S**king Piece of S**t.”

    Actually, my code for that is “Mr. David Miscavige.”

50. Grasshopper | October 13, 2010 at 5:56 pm |

    You know, I do not recall that handing on my “PTS/SP Detection, Routing, and Handling” Course. Must be on the GAT version…

51. MostlyLurker | October 13, 2010 at 6:01 pm |

    They want the world believe they are a church?
    They really want the world believe they are religious ministers?

    I.R.S. wake up! We have all been fooled.

52. eddieVroom | October 13, 2010 at 6:05 pm |

    Yeah, that’s been brought up in earlier comments, and I’ll say it again: The time may be rapidly approaching when you will *not* be able to leave. So, if you think you might EVER want to jump that rotten ship, sooner would be better than later.

    Meanwhile, I do believe that discussions of penertration and rescue strategy will prove beneficial…

53. MissBridgett | October 13, 2010 at 6:08 pm |

    🙂 🙂 😉 !!

54. DFB aka Dfb99 | October 13, 2010 at 6:20 pm |

    Wow.
    The group I thought was going to save the world and that held my spiritual salvation is apparently in the business of manufacturing insane zombies.
    This is evil. Everything about it. Getting some glimpse of how mind fucked these people are makes me sad.

55. DFB aka Dfb99 | October 13, 2010 at 6:22 pm |

    Also, Mike, you obviously were the sanest person there.
    You are calm and there. Good TR’s. That was one hell of a bullbait.
    They were trying to blame stuff on you afterwards? Right.

56. DFB aka Dfb99 | October 13, 2010 at 6:26 pm |

    I don’t think they wanted to do that. They were very much motivated almost beyond their control. They HAD to act like that.
    Having to act like that almost against your own will, then having to somehow make it ok in your mind- thats the kind of insanity that Nazi Germany was made of. I’m getting that now.

57. Cat Daddy | October 13, 2010 at 6:31 pm |

    This came to mind at hearing such screeching.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpy
    “In Greek mythology, a harpy (“snatcher”, from Latin: harpeia, originating in Greek: ἅρπυια, harpūia) was one of the winged spirits best known for constantly stealing all food from Phineas. The literal meaning of the word seems to be “that which snatches” as it comes from the ancient Greek word harpazein (ἁρπάζειν), which means “to snatch”.

    A harpy was the mother by the West Wind Zephyros of the horses of Achilles.[1] In this context Jane Ellen Harrison adduced the notion in Virgil’s Georgics (iii.274) that mares became gravid by the wind alone, marvelous to say.[2]

    Hesiod[3] calls them two “lovely-haired” creatures, perhaps euphemistically. Harpies as ugly winged bird-women, e.g. in Aeschylus’ The Eumenides (line 50) are a late development, due to a confusion with the Sirens. Roman and Byzantine writers detailed their ugliness.[4]”

58. lucy | October 13, 2010 at 6:32 pm |

    I had made the decision a long time ago to not read the freedom magazine anymore as it was a waste of my time, and nothing was just factual straight forward information or even the facts from their side. however you tempted me.

    Towards the end of the article it says “For it seems that forcefully grabbing the arms of women is a standard part of his behavior. Then again, lying about it, and coaching others to corroborate his lies, is another daily routine.”

    A few things which are just so stupid about their whole account of Mike and what happened

    1. Mike did not call these people up and ask them to come and yell and him like pit bulls in a parking lot so he could then beat and badger them.
    2. You can hear on the recording that Mike was trying to get into his car and get away from these screaming lunatics. You have to ask yourself who is trying to beat up who?
    3. He then tries to run into a private office area, in which they follow him shouting they are his family. Family members don’t treat each other like this.
    4. If someone wants to act like red neck trash and treat other people like then did, then collateral damage (scratches to the arm) are going to happen. Don’t instigate a fight, and then go home crying because you didn’t win!

59. LivO | October 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm |

    Amazing. Now I know where Dennis Erlich got his filthy vocabulary he uses on the internet.

60. Geoff H | October 13, 2010 at 6:54 pm |

    “Then the others follow suit with their favorite word……..fuck. To think these are people with high standing in a “religious” organization is mind blowing.”

    You appear to be oblivious of the fact that Mike uses that exact word multiple times. I expect you will chastise Mike for that that shortly. Heaven forbid people might label you a hypocrite.

61. LO | October 13, 2010 at 6:57 pm |

    Wow !
    What was that ?
    I’ve seen women behaving like this, but they were all drunk !
    What kind of tech was that ?
    Well dne Mike for staying calm and having your TRO in.

62. Lawrence | October 13, 2010 at 7:08 pm |

    I kind of side with Heather a bit.

    Even when I was in Scientology, if someone expressed that they wanted to leave it would never have dawned on me in a million years to approach the person as modern day Scientologists approached Mike Rinder in this audio record. I never did. Ever. The thought never entered my mind.

    If a person wants to be free of Scientology there should be no chain holding them to the door and certainly no people like the ones in this audio to “look forward” to going back to.

    Anyone would have called the Police and the Police would site them for disorderly conduct, religious purpose behind it or not.

63. Helmut Flasch | October 13, 2010 at 7:09 pm |

    Hello Tony, we do not know each other, but my wife Hellen Chen recognized you on the video with Marty.
    You invited her (and paid for ) to come to Seattle to speak with you at the ORG about disseminating, right around the time your trouble (I mean trip to real freedom) just began as far as I remember from here story.
    It all happened a couple of years ago even longer maby.
    She did try to keep in touch, and she know knows way you might not have communicated back – to protect her, we now know!
    Well, great minds think alike and both of you are STILL on the right side.
    Hellen would of course love to start communicate with you again. You can contact her via my e mail hflasch@flasch.com
    I have just posted our actions since we left the church. Here is the link

    http://scientologyprinciples.com/index/category/announcements_statistics/

    Love ,
    Helmut & Hellen

64. Lawrence | October 13, 2010 at 7:11 pm |

    Well, one has to put the term in proper perspective – as Arnaldo Lerma would say “Asthmatic Dwarf”.

65. Amy Scobee | October 13, 2010 at 7:21 pm |

    Listening to that recording brought me right back to the Int base – a crude reminder of several of our Int Management “meetings” where Miscavige had us applying “peer pressure” or demanding that we find out what crimes someone is sitting on because of some supposed failure.

    I sure don’t miss any part of it.

    After a few decades of such “experience”, I really had to learn to just chill. I can now easily relax and enjoy family, friends, the ocean, the mountains, children, animals, beautiful days and working in a spirit of play.

66. JustPassinThru | October 13, 2010 at 7:21 pm |

    Incorrect. OCMB is not “dissolved”. Just long overdue major forum software upgrades with more features and better security. It may be back up before the weekend.
    http://twitter.com/oper_clambake
    http://www.xenu.net/news/

    Carry on.

67. Gary Morehead a.k.a Jackson | October 13, 2010 at 7:22 pm |

    Hey Dylan, long time no chat buddy. Sorry to ride your coattail but I’ve gotta add..

    Since we are on the technical side of this,
    All us KTL grads pride ourselves from what we learned from it. Sentence composition, proper grammar etc.. Provides for conceptual communication and understanding. I bring this up as it has become obvious, through this post and previous posts, David Miscavige and his soulless morbid staff and public have demonstrated their incompetence and stupidity on their use of LRH tech they have either studied or have available to them.

    To demonstrate and prove this by reference, I present to you the following fully defined definition and use of the word “FUCK”. I should point out that Mike’s use IS both appropiate and properly used by definition.

    Enjoy….

68. Just Me | October 13, 2010 at 7:35 pm |

    I’m sure Marty, Mike and others have noticed what has happened with this blog’s traffic lately. But if you haven’t, cruise on over to http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/markrathbun.wordpress.com and click on the ‘Reach’ tab. Set the stat range to ‘Max’ to see the ‘percent of global Internet viewers who visit markrathbun.wordpress.com’.

    You will see the blog recently achieved a new all-time high record of visitor traffic, following the news reported here of Daniel Montalvo’s false imprisonment in L.A. County Jail (accomplished by Co$ COB David Miscavige’s legal beagles) and Daniel’s second rescue (accomplished by this blog community).

    This latest wave of record-high visitors to this blog was even higher than the record highs following:

    1. The announcement here last fall of Paul Haggis’s articulate resignation from the Church of $cientology

    2. The media storm last March of the front-page Sunday New York Times story about forced abortions and disconnections and the Anderson Cooper 360 five-night series on CNN about ‘Violence in the Church of Scientology’ and

    3. The recent and long-awaited BBC Panorama programme by John Sweeney re ‘Secrets of Scientology’

    That’s right, David Miscavige. Your continued attacks on independent Scientologists aren’t working out too well for you, are they?

    We await your next footnuke.

    Just Me

    P.S. By the way, Dave, that latest peak in the Alexa graph is what ‘straight up and vertical’ really looks like.

69. Cowboy Poet | October 13, 2010 at 7:40 pm |

    This is hilarious!
    The trial by peers continues. The evidence mounts and mounts and mounts against the Slappy and the 7 Dwarfs.

70. Bozz | October 13, 2010 at 7:42 pm |

    Too true. I have never, ever, in my entire life… spoken to a parent that way. Ever. There is nothing in the world that could possibly justify that language, that attitude, that anything. Nothing.

    If Ethics are a personal matter and decision, then these people have a lot of ground to make up to become civil again. Totally unacceptable.

    It is disgusting. I only pray and postulate that everyone who considers themselves to be OT read and listen to this “comm cycle.”

    Confront that, and tell me the “church” is still on Source.
    You can’t. Don’t even try it.

71. Felicitas Foster | October 13, 2010 at 7:47 pm |

    I just had the “pleasure” to read some of the Freedom mag. That is really an eye opener. It is written in a pretty low tone level. Wow. If Mestologists do not check what is going on when reading that – God help them.

    Mike and Marty,
    thanks for sharing the recording and the transcript. Looks like the Execs of the CoS do not know anything about communication, ARC etc. – meaning they lack the very basics. The language used is repulsive and lacks any inkling of social communication – and then performed in public. This are definitely no OL s or Execs I could respects or follow. What a bunch of degraded personalities. Sounds like they are dramatizing some heavy incident/implant of their recent past. I honestly feel sorry for them. I wouldn’t what to live in that state for one minute.
    Feli

72. Bozz | October 13, 2010 at 7:53 pm |

    Not to change the subject, but I’m hoping someone can help me.

    “Trust and friendship are things forged in fire and pounded out on the anvil of life. We have been through a lot together. I trust you as you trust me.”

    —L. Ron Hubbard to David Miscavige

    I stumbled upon this yesterday as I was checking out the website of Co$ and came across the above quote. Who knows what PL, HCOB, or RJ this quote came from? I know I’ve read it before. But now this bastard is claiming it as a personal note or letter from Ron to him.

    Ten whole American dollars to anyone that can find this quote for me, please? I don’t have all the references and I KNOW I have read this somewhere else before. And it pisses me off beyond discription he’s trying to claim this as his own.

    “Brother can ya spare a…” reference?
    Thanks

73. Grasshopper | October 13, 2010 at 7:53 pm |

    So, seriously, I did listen to the actual recording – it must have been hell to transcribe. It really is a must-hear. It really is. Confront this.

    Mike, you were amazingly cool throughout this. Jenny Linsen – who the hell is this woman? She is Mr. David Miscavige’s (and I already noted above what this is code for, “CSPofS”) deputy?

    I mean, I want everyone to understand, this is as squirrel as it gets. This is exactly the opposite of everything I know about Scientology. This is almost as bad as it gets, short of someone pulling the detonator on their suicide vest. I almost don’t want to post that, because they might get ideas.

    Again, I have to say, forget anything about faith – faith in Marty, Mike, me, Karen, Tom Devocht (although, I must say, Tom, I am a little alarmed in your choice of women! (joke)), or anyone else. It does not matter what is written in any blog, “Freedom Mag” article, or said on stage at any event.

    This is real – this is not a put-on.

    Jailing Danny Montalvo is real. Not a PR stunt.

    The creepy jerks shadowing John Sweeney is real – they admit it.

    Dave Lebow is a real person video taping Mike’s house and following Mike around, spending your money. They admitted it, too.

    This recording is an example of what these people do IN PUBLIC.

    What do you think they might do behind barbed wire fences?

    This is insanity of the worst order. There is absolutely no point to this!

    If I were near LA or Saint Hill, this is what I would do:

    Get the loudest AV gear I could, and load this tape on it, and blast it this weekend at the IAS convention. When someone comes over, just say:

    Here is COB’s deputy Jenny Linsen and ED Int Guillaume Leserve at work.

    Say it ain’t so, “Mr. David Miscavige”. Say it ain’t so, OSA.

    Mike, I sincerely hope you can repair your relationships with your brother and daughter and son and mother. I sincerely hope they come out of it soon.

74. Tom | October 13, 2010 at 7:55 pm |

    When DM broke his leg in, what was it, 1992?, did he ever get it set properly?

75. Sam #2 | October 13, 2010 at 8:03 pm |

    So let me get this right, Jenny says, “You deserted your family, you won’t talk to your family, you won’t see your family.”

    And then seconds later Cathy says, “You stay away from Benjamin, you mother fucker”

    Clearly these people are confused, to say the least.

    And Mike has amazing TRs. Everyone I’ve shown this to was very impressed by that.

76. Bobo | October 13, 2010 at 8:08 pm |

    Rancid.

77. Mike Hobson | October 13, 2010 at 8:14 pm |

    As demonstrated in the tape & transcript above this is what McSavage does to people:
    

78. Old School | October 13, 2010 at 8:17 pm |

    “OPERATION CLAMBAKE HAS BEEN DISSOLVED, DISCONTINUED FOR SOME STRANGE REASON”
    Site is still up: http://www.xenu.net/

79. Old School | October 13, 2010 at 8:19 pm |

    Thanks for the audio & text. DM’s bizzaro world for all to see!

80. Grasshopper | October 13, 2010 at 8:20 pm |

    I have to admit, their timing was perfect – right into John Sweeney’s recorder!

81. OTDT | October 13, 2010 at 8:23 pm |

    This new behavior is spreading to the world of infidels. I just saw a pizza delivery guy quitting and his boss was mashing pizza in his face and hitting him repeatedly on the head with the box while screaming, “You fucker! You fucking pizza quitting fucker! You’re messing with my pizza!”

    It’s all the cultural rage now!

82. PJ | October 13, 2010 at 8:25 pm |

    They sound like a bunch of PSYCHOTICS.
    They are total EFFECT.

83. OTDT | October 13, 2010 at 8:25 pm |

    Like cops yelling, “FREEZE! DON’T MOVE! PUT YOUR HANDS UP!”

    Ah…”What do you want me to do? Freeze or put my hands up?”

84. Grasshopper | October 13, 2010 at 8:28 pm |

    Yes – I noticed that too. After all that abuse. Wonderful, Mike.

85. martyrathbun09 | October 13, 2010 at 8:29 pm |

    Amy – I had the same thought about the Int base. Int base exported.

86. OTDT | October 13, 2010 at 8:30 pm |

    Buddist monks trying to learn the new Scientology methods based on the works of David Miscavige:

87. Mike Hobson | October 13, 2010 at 8:35 pm |

    Well, if it isn’t Tom Klemesrud, again!

    I have yet to see Dennis use any sort of “filthy vocabulary” and I talk with him all the time in #altreligionscientology IRC channel on Undernet.

    By the way, Dennis left C of $ and the Sea Org long before McSavage completely took over.

    Michael A. Hobson

88. FOS | October 13, 2010 at 8:45 pm |

    This is amazingly disturbing. I am glad that it was recorded. Everyone, in or out should record interactions with Church personnel who are their to “handle” you. I’m personally tired of “he said she said” stuff which no court will listen to in the end. But real recorded dox such as this is hard to dispute and it’s what more of the world needs to hear.

    Also, it seems like Jenny, Cathy and Company were trying to loosely apply C/S Series 22 Psychosis:
    “Hearing of something good that might help these hateful awful rotten nasty people, the psycho comes in, wrecks this, caves in this one, chops up that one and WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS “NO!” the psychotic either
    “a. caves himself in physically or
    “b. runs away.” – LRH

    Is it just me or did they say “Stop!” over and over. I counted nearly 20 times in the transcript, how many other inaudible “stop!” ‘s were there? It’s like at some points they were trying to say STOP with enough force that MR would just drop dead or something. Didn’t work obviously.

    Davy really pulled in the fact that this was recorded and now aired. The gossamer veil of their PR and lies is becoming thinner.

89. Dylan G | October 13, 2010 at 8:47 pm |

    this is exactly what I was thinking. What sort of group that calls themselves a religion acts like this? no other religion would allow any one who is part of their group act like this.

    Of course if push come to shove (and it just might) David Miscavige will just throw the next group of people under the bus by saying they acted on their own and he had no knowledge of it. What a complete joke.

    I knew Jenny quite well when we were posted in CMO CW. She sure did like to yell. It seems that she has fine tuned it, just a bit.

90. Dylan G | October 13, 2010 at 8:55 pm |

    no worries Jackson,
    Great info you provided I agree 100% . You can be my wing man anytime!

91. LDW | October 13, 2010 at 9:01 pm |

    Nice job of staying calm, Mike. Don’t think I could have done nearly as well.

    We’ve been watching some interesting documentaries lately. Among them, last week we saw two horrifying yet accurate accounts of Jim Jones and the Koolaid drinkers and another one on Manson’s little cult.

    I’ve always brushed it off as an unplausable scenario that Miscavige might try for a koolaid finale to his dying empire. But, for the first time it actually occurs to me that he might be insane enough to try and do something utterly sinister like gas all the Int staff before he checks himself out for the last time.

    I’m really not trying to postulate a negative outcome here. But my own awareness of the price of freedom, “constant alertness and a constant willingness to fight back,” just hit a new highest ever.

    While it’s uncomfortable to confront this much evil, ya can’t as-is without it.
    If the light of truth had been glaring on Jim Jones a little sooner, nearly 1,000 people would have been saved. Keep the DOX coming. And thank you for being there.

92. Watching Eyes | October 13, 2010 at 9:05 pm |

    To Metaqual & Grasshopper,
    Both of your comments had me laughing. Just for the record, I don’t use the word “dwarf” to disparage Little People. I use it for the dwarf because I know he’s got a button in his height……..or rather his lack of height. It’s kind of hard to be a big he-man when you’re just a little pipsqueak. But I guess that’s what shoe lifts are for……….and muscle tee’s and thongs. What a visual on that! Now I’m gagging.

93. one of those who see | October 13, 2010 at 9:13 pm |

    OMG!!!! LOL!!!! Fabulous!!

94. one of those who see | October 13, 2010 at 9:18 pm |

    Scientologists, if you are still in the church and reading this. Do you see the major outpoint that the guy – you think is ED INT-was at this little party!!!!
    So #1: If he is ED INT, does he not have better things to do than Harrass Mike.
    #2: Pretty obvious that he is actually not ED INT as he was sent on this “mission”.
    #3: So, if he is not ED Int. Who is?
    Answer: NOBODY!!!!

95. Watching Eyes | October 13, 2010 at 9:24 pm |

    Geoff H,
    You appear to be oblivious of the fact that Mike uses that exact word multiple times.
    Mike doesn’t need me to defend him, however, seeing as you made an issue of this and addressed it to me, I’ll respond. Additionally, seeing as my troll alert flags have now gone up, I’ll put info at the end of my comment on how people should proceed to get their money back. Remember, I promised to do this every time I spotted a troll.

    Back to the word “fuck”. I did a word count. Mike used the word exactly TWO times in response to being blindsided by a group of loud, uncouth, hysterical psychos. The lapdogs? TWENTY ONE + times in it’s various forms: fuck, fucker, fucking and fuck-wit. Need I say more?

    Now, on to my promise:
    For anyone wanting a repayment/refund here’s where you need to write if you don’t get satisfaction from writing to the org/IAS. These are government agencies and WILL respond to you. Your complaint will not be ignored.

    For the IAS here’s the one to use. It’s in CA.
    http://ag.ca.gov/charities.php
    http://ag.ca.gov/charities/eri.php#Location:SearchResults
    You can plug in their EIN number, just above the “search” button to get the exact name they go by. It’s very hard to find the name otherwise.
    Put the EIN number in your complaint.
    It’s 521840679
    This complaint has to be printed out & mailed via the US Mail.

    For Flag or the Ship this is the one in FL. It’s under the Attorney Gen’s office, Dept of Consumer Services, Bureau of MEDIATION & Enforcement.
    http://www.800helpfla.com/complnt.html
    Under Consumer Complaint Form click on “online form”. With this one you can submit it online and attach any docs.
    Note: when you fill in this form, under each question, every time you add in another line of info it shrinks the print. By the time you’re done anyone reading it will need a magnifying glass. The best thing is to do is write on the form referring them to your attached complaint.
    Also, the form asks when you paid. If it’s a real old date, the form might not take it. Put today’s date and explain in your attachment.

    Go for it. If enough of these show up on their desks, the CofM risks an all out gov investigation. Remember, most of the people asking for repayment/refunds are NOT in their 20′s & 30′s. Most are 50 and older. Think “elder abuse”. Think fraud. Think Bait & Switch as in selling LRH but delivering Miscavige.
    Note: You may receive a letter from the Florida agency telling you that your complaint has been referred to the Pinellas County Consumer Services Division. If so, you’ll get a letter from them with a form to fill out. Fill it out and mail it back.

96. Anonymous SF | October 13, 2010 at 9:25 pm |

    After that DM locked the whole lot of them back up no doubt. With all due respect Mr Rinder these aren’t the actions of sane people. It sounds like a horrible and heartbreaking experience.

97. Amy | October 13, 2010 at 9:33 pm |

    Marty – just like your post from yesterday, this is exposing what it’s really like at the TOP of the Church of Scientology. This incident was out in public even. At the Int base compound in Hemet, they can really let loose because there’s 100’s of acres and no public to see or hear what goes on behind those security gates…

98. Raindog | October 13, 2010 at 9:38 pm |

    If anyone needs proof than Int Execs do not know and can not apply technical data all they need to do is listen to this recording. Int has become experts at demonstrating GAEs. (Gross Auditing Errors)

    I do understand that this is not a session, and so they could have some faint excuse of violating a comm cycle, but did any of these people read “Science of Survival” by L. Ron Hubbard? Have any of them ever done a comm course of any type? If so they have lost their gains. Hmmm could it be they are connected to an SP? The same guy who yells at his pc?

99. Bozz | October 13, 2010 at 9:43 pm |

    FOS,
    All the “Stop”s were their attempts at being Tone 40.
    You can see how well they have it down. LOL

100. TL Let's Look | October 13, 2010 at 10:04 pm |

     Again, a dramatization of “Reverse Scientology” by members of Miscavige’s Church.

     This episode definitely illustrates “how to go out of ARC”, “how to destroy bridges to family relations”, “how to disgust civil bystanders”, “how to drama as a trashy-mouthed, redneck, low-rent, degraded being”.

     The contagion of this aberration continues within the Church because it is part of David Miscavige’s beingness. A reverse example of what should be emanates from DM.

101. OTDT | October 13, 2010 at 10:23 pm |

     Should be added to KTL.

102. Loki | October 13, 2010 at 10:29 pm |

     Geoff, have you ever fought your way out of an ambush? “excuse me, comming through”, “let me squeeze by there”, “be right back” etc just doesnt work.
     To throw Mike into their column you would need to find an instance where he and others ambush someone and with massive vulgarity attempt to take over and control the situation. If anything, Mike could be praised for showing his PR training which includes observing local customs.
     But your obviously paying close attention here and looking for ways to ensure fairness and end hypocrisy. The current “church” practices should give you plenty of opportunity. So speak up.

103. Loki | October 13, 2010 at 10:42 pm |

     I am sure Mike would forgive them in a heartbeat, thats not an issue. The question lies in whom of his family can wake up and humble themselves enough to even want it. Lets all hope they get there.

104. Sinar | October 13, 2010 at 10:44 pm |

     YCSPOS probably originated from the originator of YSCOHB

105. Jethro Bodine | October 13, 2010 at 10:49 pm |

     After listening to the tape, it’s no wonder Anonymous refers to Sea Org members as “Sea Orges”. It’s like these people are acting out the “winning valence”, dropping the “F Bomb” like there’s no tmro. These people mirror DM in that they:
     1) Are yelling
     2) Swear like a truck driver
     3) Have a vocabulary of a sixth grader
     4) As a group, try to intimidate, harrass and bully an individual, and basically try to push in the person’s anchor points (non-Scn speak: introvert someone’s attention)
     5) Heavy use of make wrong (non-Scn speak: lay on a guilt trip)

     I’m glad I never made it to the Int Base in my brief time in the Sea Arrrgh!

106. Sinar | October 13, 2010 at 10:49 pm |

     Amen, bro. As part of the decompression of an XSO, one has to relearn to speak normally without the (expletive deleted).

107. Tony DePhillips | October 13, 2010 at 10:49 pm |

     Oh! Centurian!! ROTFLMFAO!!! Homerun!!

108. Loki | October 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm |

     Bozz, anyone can invent a quote. If it wasnt written before 1980 and doesnt have authorized by AVU on it I wouldnt give it the time of day.

109. Tony DePhillips | October 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm |

     I hear ya Dean! You want DOX on DM and Guilleme having at it for ED Int not “wearing his hat”? Hear ya go!

110. Sinar | October 13, 2010 at 10:55 pm |

     GS,
     No chastisement of Mike is needed. He’s just replying in the same language & tone so that it fully communicates to the originator and duplicated.

     I know he doesn’t speak like that in normal, sane circumstances. It’s similar to using Scientologese or SO speak!

111. Tara | October 13, 2010 at 10:56 pm |

     I like using “David Miscavige” in hopes it’ll bump him up on keywords in search engines, myself. 😉

112. Tara | October 13, 2010 at 10:59 pm |

     Ewwwwwwww

113. Just Me | October 13, 2010 at 10:59 pm |

     Hi, Geoff H. How’s the weather in NYC?

114. Sinar | October 13, 2010 at 11:04 pm |

     Samuel,
     That Freedom mag site is very toxic, untrustworthy and could put spy-ware on your computer, BTW. So surf with care according to web of trust : http://www.mywot.com/ Most Mestology sites are of similar toxic ratings, which in itself is very, very bad PR and discouraging to safe web surfers.

115. Bodil | October 13, 2010 at 11:04 pm |

     LDW,
     Regarding the Jim Jones/Charlie Manson/David Koresh comparisons – I’ve thought the same. When Marty first brought it up and said he told both SP Times and Anderson Cooper (who both opted to not include it in their stories) I thought: That is a little far-fetched. With the information I’ve gotten within the last couple of months, I have reconsidered. I did something I never thought I would do: I posted my sister’s name as a thread on OCMB so it comes up as second when you google her name, hoping that will make her sufficiently PTS so she will never be posted at Int (she’s in ASI now). It really rang true for me when Mike told his daughter he’s doing this to “save you”. I hope his daughter will understand that some day soon.

116. curious | October 13, 2010 at 11:08 pm |

     I have never been a scientologist and only know what I have read and seen on the web. Marty’s blog is fascinating. I have a couple of questions. Since the CofS has access to their member’s “confessions” (and everyone has done things they are ashamed of), how can people confront the church without fear of exposure. Noone has perfect behavior, yet CofS seems to make shame as an extreme tool to keep everyone in line. For those leaving the church, how can a person prepare for the fallout that will certainly follow? I sometimes cry about the families that have been tormented by the evil perpetuated by this evil group and its leader.

117. cre8 | October 13, 2010 at 11:12 pm |

     MD!? Is there a Doctor in the House?! Ya, right!…Doctor Death and Destruction!!!

118. Tara | October 13, 2010 at 11:12 pm |

     Watching Eyes will always SEE you.
     Thanks for the data repeat. I was looking for it.
     (I’m thinkin of getting my 2 kids’ IAS lifetime memberships back. Now that I KNOW none of the money is used to better anybody’s life except David Miscavige and his henchwomen, I think it would be a good blow to the bankrolling of the corruption!)

119. lotus | October 13, 2010 at 11:14 pm |

     Anyway,

     This is yet another proof of 2 results that we got on spiritual beings within this church :

     1) Spiritual beings will succed to hate and fall into a downwaerd spiral violence with their family member for their devotion and beleif to the ”great Master and the Cult and the Church”

     2) Spiritual beings will succed – to soon or later – to reach up the bridge to new ot’s level and golden age of Knowledge – their originations will be:

     ”you fuck..mother suck…”
     ” You fuch faggi…”
     ”You full os sh…”

     ”you are biggot”
     ” you , masturbat…”
     ”you all sp’s…”
     ”you evil person degraded being…”
     ”you do not deserve to live…”

     it’s very sad for all scientologist who are involved in experiencing broken families and mutual hate and anger!
     On day – soon or later – any conflict resolve- when for one the situation is seen under true light!

120. Martin | October 13, 2010 at 11:16 pm |

     Wow! Fantastic, awesome, products Helmut!!! VVVVVVVWD! Hats off to you. Look and learn everyone, this is what it’s all about. Delivering standard scientology to willing public in no-hassle, theta environment. Made my day. What a fabulous juxtaposition to the psychosis emanating from DM’s squalid little cult! http://scientologyprinciples.com/index/category/announcements_statistics/

121. RJ | October 13, 2010 at 11:25 pm |

     It’s too bad and so sad.

     Freedom used to be a pretty good rag at one time back in the ’70’s and ’80’s back when Randy McDonald (I believe) and RVY had editorial control over it.

     Now its a joke that even makes Fox News look like journalism.

     I thought it couldn’t suck further than that wasted puff piece on Miscavige but it seems they have exceeded my humble expectations.

     Sheeeesh

     Whatever modicum of journalistic integrity they had has pretty much been flushed down the bowl like a used tampon.

     Should really be called Free Dumb Magazine with Alfred E. Neuman as Chief Editor.

122. sarge | October 13, 2010 at 11:30 pm |

     Jethro, You still a double naught spy? Gotta admit I get a kick out of the great handles used on this blog.

123. Sinar | October 13, 2010 at 11:34 pm |

     Totally agreed, there’s no where else that the true flavor and essence could be found outside of the Int Base.. Had forgotten how unpalatable that shrieking voice of Jenny’s is, witnessed on other flows and never directed to me (sigh of relief).

124. TEG | October 13, 2010 at 11:42 pm |

     Dear Tony,

     Is this the newest version of the Orientation film?

     Inquisitive as ever,

     Tom Gallagher

125. LivO | October 13, 2010 at 11:49 pm |

     Do you see Tom Klemesrud everywhere you look, “Sneakster”, or is it Erlich on IRC that explains any criticism of him as having to come from “klemsturd?”

126. one of those who see | October 13, 2010 at 11:53 pm |

     Yes. Smile.

127. Sam | October 13, 2010 at 11:56 pm |

     I seriously seriously hope DM didn’t script this 😀 no-one could be that stupid…
     HCOPL 18 June 1968 ETHICS…
     “The point where a thetan goes mad is very exact. It is the point where he begins to obsessively stop something” L Ron Hubbard.

     And now a word (or two) from DM’s envoys (the cleaner bits)…
     “you fucking stop”
     “Stop what you are doing”
     “Stop what you are doing and listen to your brother, stop hurting your brother”
     “Stop hurting your brother, stop……”
     “Stop giving me crap”
     “Stop hurting your brother, stop”
     “Mike stop”
     “Stop being a Fuck-wit, Stop it”
     “No, you stop it Mike”
     “You better stop”
     “No, fuck you, you’re going to stop it”
     “you are going to stop”
     “I’m telling you, you better stop, you better stop”
     “I’m telling you, you are going to stop”
     “you are going to stop. STOP doing what you are doing.”

     C’mon Davey! I’m trying here but what am I supposed to think???

128. lunamoth | October 13, 2010 at 11:57 pm |

     Watching Eyes, every time you do that it give me a big smile – you rock!

     lunamoth

129. OTDT | October 13, 2010 at 11:57 pm |

     Ha ha ha, that’s good.

130. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 12:01 am |

     Amy, I remember you when you worked in Senior HCO with David. You were always sweet, a sometimes rare commodity. When I saw you on tv talking about Lt. Cmdr Bow-Wow and what not, you came off as very intelligent. It begged a rhetorical question, “How could so many highly intelligent people (I am including many of your peers in this too) fall for such nonsense?” I have been told by other non-Scientologists that intelligent people are often attracted to cults. My answer is as follows. LRH said we live in an “almost world”. We have doctors who are almost doctors. A legal system which is almost a legal system. Grocery stores which are almost grocery stores, etc. Scientology became “almost Scientology” but now is almost Type III PTS. I would also add that we live in a world that where abuse and denial is the norm. There is more recognition of abuse in society than in the past. Denial, however, is as rampant as ever. We had an alcoholic president and no one ever figured how the dynamics of AA fit in to all the public and strategic faux pas he made. The media are classic enablers on many levels. DM is a microcosm of what goes on in world politics, particularly with regard to the Bush administration when it comes to torture, etc. Everyone needs to be aware of ABUSE, DENIAL, ENABLE. These are words that society understands better than Scn lingo but they are still slow to “get it”, not only with the DM situation but with their own world problems such as the DENIAL about economic issues, etc.

131. Watching Eyes | October 14, 2010 at 12:02 am |

     That video is hilarious. Everyone should have at least one good laugh a day and I got mine from that video.
     Considering how proficient the dwarf’s lapdogs are in the use of the word “fuck”, do you think maybe he had them M9 this video?

132. OTDT | October 14, 2010 at 12:02 am |

     It’s true, people in general quite often find it offensive. I’ve had to reel myself in on it and I wasn’t even in the Sea Org. It’s considered a sign of ignorance.

133. TEG | October 14, 2010 at 12:02 am |

     Curious,

     You penned, “I sometimes cry ……”

     So do I.

     However there is a song that sings true to me.

     Respectfully yours,

     Tom Gallagher

134. TEG | October 14, 2010 at 12:08 am |

     Let me try that again …..

135. lunamoth | October 14, 2010 at 12:09 am |

     LivO
     I’m going to take a chance that you are old enough to get this analogy;
     give your tone arm a nudge because your needle is stuck again.

     lunamoth

136. lunamoth | October 14, 2010 at 12:11 am |

     Just Me

     I’ll bet it’s been a long time since dm has seen ANYTHING with that degree of upward cant.

137. Freedom Fighter | October 14, 2010 at 12:11 am |

     What a freak Jenny “I Wanna Be Just Like Dave” Linton is!! That would make me want to come running back into the fold — NOT!! The whole time I was listening/reading this, I wanted to rip a tire off the car and shove it in her mouth to shut her insanity up.

     Mike, well done on keeping your TRs in and good on the doctor for demanding that the psychos stay out of her office (although a few of them managed to make it in through the cracks). I hope you get a chance to have that one-on-one comm cycle with your brother and kids one day soon.

138. Bryon | October 14, 2010 at 12:11 am |

     That graph spike is a middle finger to DM. The CofM average web traffic is higher, but probably from Anon clicking Google ads to make them spend money. There are scripts for automating that.

139. OTDT | October 14, 2010 at 12:16 am |

     Manual on How to Communicate, by David Miscavige:

     1) Get a gang
     2) Ambush unsuspecting subject suddenly
     3) Everyone shout, “You fucker!” repeatedly
     4) Try to take car keys if possible
     5) Demand they talk to you
     6) Injure yourself so you can blame it on them
     7) Lie to police when they come
     8) Write up and publish the lies
     9) Crawl back into your hole
     10) Hide your head in shame

140. RJ | October 14, 2010 at 12:18 am |

     curious,

     Using a parishioners confessions is a grotesque violation of the Auditors Code and is not part of Scientology spiritual counseling and is a gross betrayal of trust the definition of treason itself.

     Therefore you could consider the current “Church of Scientology” which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Religion of Scientology to be in a condition of treason or worse.

     To call these people “Scientologists” meaning one who studies or is seeking truth is to stretch the definition beyond all meaning.

     What these people are in reality is the antithesis of the subject while pretending to be otherwise.

     Another feature of treason.

     Furthermore just because someone’s glibbly read a bunch of books on the subject called “the basics” doesn’t mean they have any understanding of what they are.

     These people who attacked Mike obviously have no understanding of the Communication Formula, ARC and the Tone Scale. The true basics of Scientology.

     What they are demonstrating is what is known as a Dramatization of the bank.

     One wonders if these people are on drugs.

141. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 12:19 am |

     Most Scientology operations do not have the extreme leverage that DM has over the Int Base. Most confessional data would not be that damaging as no one would care. While not exclusively so, the primary angst is at the implant station known as the Int Base. It becomes more like Jim Jones with every report. While there is plenty of evidence indicating that the People’s Temple and Charles Manson (army surveillance equipment was found) were government mind control operations , tied to MK-Ultra or its later versions, no evidence has surfaced to indicate that DM is run by such. There is, however, mood altering electronic technology that can create rage and other emotions in human being. In other words, it does not take a quantum leap of existing technology to accomplish such. Whether it is happening to him or not is a different proposition. I tend to think he has masters who just let him wreak havoc on his own. In other words, very loose control. As long as he messes up Scientology, they are happy. This brings us to another rhetorical question. If you put a stake through the heart of DM, will everything resolve? Will his flying monkeys revert to “being good?” I would think so but history might prove different. It is still being played out.

142. Alex Braverman | October 14, 2010 at 12:20 am |

     To whom it may concern,

     Mr. David Miscavige is leading a group of trusting fools into a the great abyss of failure. I’m afraid that when all is said and done many people’s lives, as well as their very souls, will have been permanently ruined only because they have blindly entrusted Mr. David Miscavige with the responsibility of continuing to be the de facto leader of the Church of Scientology – when we all know that he is severely ill equipped with the skill sets required to do it right.

     If you are reading this, and you are still aligned with Mr. David Miscavige as your revered leader, please ask yourself one question; Why?

     Regards,
     AB

143. Valkov | October 14, 2010 at 12:21 am |

     We’re gonna need gallons and gallons of Holy Water. Anyone have a connection to a wholesale source?

144. OTDT | October 14, 2010 at 12:21 am |

     DM’s new motto: I ARE SCIENTOLOGY.

145. ΘTater/GaryLerner | October 14, 2010 at 12:23 am |

     David,

     I do believe that the path of enlightened verbiage that you seek (such as “You cock sucking piece of shit”), should be pontificated with a more Shakespearean expoundment (example: shite instead of shit). You will need to “Chinese School” the aforementioned “expoundment” to utter perfection. Then and only then will you achieve Verbal Nirvana in your day to day verbial assaults.

     I personally have been practicing:
     “Forsooth, Master of Shite!!” “Thoust longingly buggers thine own lips!”

     🙂 – oops, I said a naughty!

146. one of those who see | October 14, 2010 at 12:25 am |

     Marty, please help me understand. What effect were they trying to cause???
     I mean it is obvous that:
     1. Telling Mike to STOP is going to have zero effect.
     2. Yelling using extremely foul language and not really saying anything just causes horrible PR for the Church.
     I mean does DM even know Mike Rinder. This scene is upsetting ofcourse, but, come on. Mike had it so much together that he managed to have the conversation recorded by the BBC, get the police called, speak calmly while being screamed at and even get his communications accross regarding who he was willing to talk to and that he is doing what he is doing to save them.
     Someone mentioned (on someother day) that DM is like a little brat. So maybe that’s it. He’s a little kid that isn’t getting his way. So he is standing in his playroom throwing his toys.

147. Samuel | October 14, 2010 at 12:28 am |

     Juse Me,

     that is very interesting – not more than 15 minutes ago I have sent Marty a collection of various traffic stats for various org sites – more or less all on a pathetic low level (rtc.org = below 700 visits in a month!), scientology.org on a 1-year down trend etc.

     Couple that with Jeff Hawkin’s, Steve Hall’s and Marty’s sites ALL going up, with visits HIGHER than the org sites … it’s telling

     To Marty: have sent it to your hushmail account.

     Samuel

148. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 12:28 am |

     This is an exhibit for the proposition that the church is dead. This Standard Operating Procedure. Right on down to the CLO’s, and even the Class V orgs.

149. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 12:31 am |

     Well, here is an interesting Date Coincident for you. The Hole was officially dubbed such, and went beyond the point of no return – with tortures and all – in January 2004. Check the timeline on Abu Graib and the advent of CIA torture. Read Amy Klein’s The Shock Doctrine. Realize, the Ewen Cameron she documents as the father of mind control torture, was the same Ewen Cameron who lead the charges against Dianetics in the fifties.

150. Idle Org | October 14, 2010 at 12:32 am |

     I’m suddenly reminded of the early 1980’s, when my friends and I were first discovering GIRLS!

     You had so-and-so dating so-and-so, then breaking up and dating so-and-so’s best friend, then getting back together with the original so-and-so behind the latter so-and-so’s back.

     All of this ultimately followed by highly-charged drama, hurt feelings, shouting, swearing, make-wrong, tears, parking lot confrontations and all the other dissapointing events one experiences as they discover that becoming an adult is, in many cases, really no more advanced or “grown- up” than pre-adolescent, schoolyard, intentionally-created yet pretending to be victimized type randomity……..if that analogy serves.

     Fortunately, Mike is really quite above all of this and his TR’s prove it here.

     Why is the church still going through puberty?

     Grow up, for Christ sake!

     At its most basic level, this is embarrassing!

151. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 12:34 am |

     Mike and I will tell some stories about this. You are right on, as is the guy who cited cs series twenty two earlier. It is a DM fixation.

152. Tony DePhillips | October 14, 2010 at 12:38 am |

     Hi Helmut and Hellen,
     Of course I remember Hellen! I have been trying to reach her ever since I saw that you and her came out. I will contact her on her email.
     Thanks,
     Tony

153. Freedom Fighter | October 14, 2010 at 12:38 am |

     “P.S. By the way, Dave, that latest peak in the Alexa graph is what ‘straight up and vertical’ really looks like.”

     Snap!! I vote this the comment of the day!

154. Samuel | October 14, 2010 at 12:41 am |

     Bozz, I couldn’t tell you the reference but David Miscavige most personally, on the scientology.org site, proves to the world that he’s a cheating liar. The evidence is just a bit higher up on that same page. There’s an earlier LRH quote that he attributes to “him” by twisting the English grammar beyond its limits.

     It has been noticed before – see bottom of this article:

     http://www.scientology-cult.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=365:83-percent-whopper&catid=33:fraud&Itemid=186

     The end of this referenced article reads like this and is addressed to Tommy Davis:

     =========================

     Here’s the actual copy from that site: http://www.scientology.org/david-miscavige.html

     “In 1983, L. Ron Hubbard described a heroic Church executive who cleaned the ranks of rogue staff attempting to seize control of Scientology while Mr. Hubbard was engaged in intensive research and absent from the Church. As Mr. Hubbard himself phrased it: ‘So forgive me for not managing the Church when it almost fell into hostile hands. It all came out all right. Why? Because real Scientologists made sure it did. My faith was justified.’ That real Scientologist L. Ron Hubbard spoke of was David Miscavige.”

     Tommy, did you spot the outpoint?

     No? Or did you spot it the very first time you saw it but didn’t dare to speak up?

     Let me help you. It’s the grammar, the Plural and Singular, it is the answer to the question “How many people is that little man?”.

     The intro says that LRH described “a heroic” staff (that is singular, we agree on that, right?) The LRH quote speaks of “real Scientologists” (that is plural, correct?) The next line says “That real Scientologist” was the little man (that is again singular).

     So, how do you solve that one, Tommy. Ignore it, as you most likely have been doing, assuming you did read all of it before it went online?

     The LRH quote should be correct, considering the Golden Age of Knowledge has been pronounced complete. So, no mistake on that one.

     Would you please ask Him (or anybody else who might know) for the names of the real Scientologists? ((Correct, its plural!!! You are catching on!) Who knows, maybe the little man’s name was never one of them?

     =================================

     I bet the odds are a gazillion to 1 that this statement was meant for DM.

     Samuel

155. Tony DePhillips | October 14, 2010 at 12:44 am |

     Tom,
     Mike and Marty showed us the “SP handling”, well this is the ethics handling for non-complying juniors.. At leat the ED Int has a bit of fight left in him.
     🙂

156. Obnosis | October 14, 2010 at 1:04 am |

     I haven’t listened to the audio yet but read the transcript. This is so sick and incredible I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry. Scientology, containing the Formula of Communication, the Cycle of Communication, Axiom 28, two-way communication, clay table processing on communication, communication drills, several levels of communication courses up to Professional level, Dianetics 55!, and PAB’s, HCOB’s and lectures on the subject, and this is what we get? Absof***inglutely pathetic, and absof***inglutely insane. I am so glad I’m out.

157. stella | October 14, 2010 at 1:13 am |

     Need an mp3 version that can played on a mac!

158. Carol | October 14, 2010 at 1:25 am |

     Jackson, you are a hoot! loved the video

     Love Carol

159. Gaiagnostic | October 14, 2010 at 1:27 am |

     Bravo! Watching Eyes!

     g

160. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 1:27 am |

     Does anyone know when the IAS event is this year. I gotta get something up before the event. For any numerologists in the house, there were 8008 visits today.

161. Fellow Traveller | October 14, 2010 at 1:27 am |

     Some serendipity at work here. In chasing down a reference, I (re)discovered the following from chapter XI of Dn 55! :

     Remember, when you are explaining this [reference to processing on control] to people, that it is willingness to control on any and all Dynamics, and that it is not an obsessive or compulsive control to own, protect, or hide on any Dynamic. All the ills of Earth come from an obsession to own, control, protect and hide on other Dynamics than Self. The true enlightenment of this world has come from Willingness to be along any of the Dynamics.

     One of the things which gives truth to Pan-Determinism is the savageness with which the aberrated attempt to drive an individual away from anything resembling Pan-Determinism. This is simply an obsessive action on the part of people to climb up to Pan-Determinism by force. Pan-Determinism cannot be climbed by force. The ladder to that height is not made of pikes and spears, spankings and police forces. It is made of
     Understanding, Affinity, Reality and Communication.

     Thank you Mr Rinder for the live demonstration on the rungs to that ladder.

     Bruce Pratt

162. Jack Airey | October 14, 2010 at 1:31 am |

     The Florida Mental Health Act of 1971 (commonly known as the “Baker Act”) is a Florida statute allowing for involuntary examination of an individual.
     The Baker Act allows for involuntary examination (what some call emergency or involuntary commitment). It can be initiated by judges, law enforcement officials, physicians or mental health professionals. There must be evidence that the person has a mental illness (as defined in the Baker Act) and is a harm to self, harm to others, or self neglectful (as defined in the Baker Act).
     Examinations may last up to 72 hours and occur in over 100 Florida Department of Children and Families-designated receiving facilities statewide.
     I nominate Cathy Rinder and Jenny Linsen and Andrew Rinder. Taryn gets a pass because her mother and older uncle are setting a bad example for the younger person. Notice the good example the father Mike Rinder sets.
     This is one group that needs to be under lock and key as they they appear to demonstate actions of a person(s) with a mental illness as defined in the Baker Act.

163. Watching Eyes | October 14, 2010 at 1:33 am |

     To Tara & Lunamoth,
     Good! Every time I post it someone else puts it to good use. Every time. I hope before long those two state agencies are calling for a federal invest.
     ps. Not to let the whole cat out of the bag, but I have it on good authority that a reporter now has the info on ex-members using these agencies after failed attempts writing to the cult to get their money back.

164. eddieVroom | October 14, 2010 at 1:36 am |

     ROFL, but otherwise, I’m still certain YSCOHB shall be etched upon his tomb…

165. Thought Provoking | October 14, 2010 at 1:40 am |

     Read the transcript. Listened to the latter half of the recording long enough to get the general tone. After reading the transcript, I just wasn’t interested in hearing the whole thing.

     For a bunch of execs and seasoned Scientologists who only came to talk, they sure don’t know anything about the comm formula, a Scientology basic.

     Amy’s comment seems to imply this is tame compared to the day to day comm at Int. If one wanted to know what Scientology isn’t, this would be a good example. Truly, reverse Scientology.

166. Antoine | October 14, 2010 at 1:43 am |

     What a discusting revolting and repugnant gang bang of Miscavagology.
     Have they no shame? Real Proffessional…folks. Let me guess, most of them if not all are Clears??
     And what in God’s World do they think Religous Freedom is?
     Completely agree with Lawrence here. So does LRH, big time!
     And about the Tone of the whole thing, this is a flashback for me nearly 20 years, 1991, when I was Routing Out of the Edmonton Org. (leaving Staff)
     Let me spare you the 14 day ordeal to cut right to the last word climax; Continuing my Routing Out Form I walked into the Org finding a new SO Member/FBO from Toronto being briefed or Brainwashed by the ED, he walks over to me like king shit, drags me to the HCO with a ton of jerk off attitude giving me all that make-wrong gripe. (Believe me I was squeaky clean have just returned from Flag after seven months of Ethics handling) Remembering my SSII, about the extent of training i ever got, asked him to haul out the LRH ref. Leaving and Leaves? Pointed out the one single sentence to read: “We are not interested in keeping someone who is not interested in being where he wants to be”. (can’t recall verbatim or pull the ref. right now. Anyone recall?) You get the idea.
     The guy read it, and you should of seen his face, his demeanor melted like water pored on a Witch. He stood up took it back to the ED. She melted too.
     I left. Knowing they where insane, ape-shit crazy. But never really pinned it to DM, not for 18 more years.

     Let’s not loose sight of the truth. LRH is heavily ignored. The Church being full of dead squirrels acting continually and completely Off Policy.

     This was 19 years ago, today they froth at the mouth.

167. Informer | October 14, 2010 at 1:50 am |

     IAS Event will be on Friday Oct 15.

168. Tom | October 14, 2010 at 1:50 am |

     http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=482084#post482084

     “The Live Event in England will be held on Friday the 15th of October at Saint Hill.”

169. ΘTater/GaryLerner | October 14, 2010 at 1:54 am |

     Gm,

     If David “MissedTheSanityBoat” Miscavige had left KTL on the bridge then everyone onlines now would have a total conceptual understanding of how FUCKED they are now. Oh well, guess the heart of darkness is their only conceptual understanding now. Too bad they can’t comprehend that!

     Gary (a villager that did KTL and loved it!)(Key To Life – no joke!)

170. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 1:55 am |

     I want to post a BIG WIN and it is why I came to the blog tonight. I received a message from an Independent that he had just audited an old crew member and that they had exteriorized with full perception. Wow! That’s the first time I have heard that from a Scientologist or ex-Scientologist in I don’t know how long. I have always wondered why there was not more talk about this because when I was an auditor, preclears used to go exterior FREQUENTLY. About as often as you see a home run in baseball. Exterior with full perception might have been as frequent as a grand slam. Happens but not that often. In the old days, you saw it in the success stories in Advance Magazine which long ago became reduced to “I got to work on time.”
     Anyway, this news gave me a resurgence that I cannot explain. I was walking around the grocery store (a real grocery store….Whole Foods) and I could not stop smilling inside (what we Taoists call the Inner Smile). I do not really consider myself a Scientologist in any conventional sense or otherwise anymore. It is a part of my past. I am neutral. It worked for me and it works if applied correctly but it is ancient history. I have a very exciting life so it does not matter to me. I do know, however, that what my old friend is saying is real because I have experienced such myself. I should add that my friend who did the auditing does not even consider himself a Scientologist anymore! He’s just trying to help an old friend and is providing a service. It his job. Qual is also my job. It comes natural.
     It has come to the point where even talking about Scientology, particularly with ex-Sea Org, can be very interiorizing. When it is not, one is definitely talking about how interiorized Scientologists are, as a group or individually. As has been explained by Marty, this is reverse Scientology.
     The question has already been posed, can REAL Scientology (this includes real exteriorization with real perception and happiness) be rehabilitated? The fast and obvious answer is no. I never even considered it for a moment. Since reconnecting on this blog with old friends and colleagues, I’ve had a change of heart. LRH said that civilizations failed in the past because they did not have a Qualifications Division or function. In other words, they could not correct their mistakes. He said that Scientology was the only organization that “could run itself out” but that is only true if it has a true Qual Division. In writing this, I just realized that I was where the buck stopped when it came to my function in Qual with regard to International Management. I was even Very Highly Commended by LRH for my role in this regard. International Stats had boomed, even in spite of mission holder fiasco #1 (the San Francisco Mission Holder Conference had not occurred yet and that was the final blow). I, however, did not see eye to eye with Executive Director, Kerry Gleeson on the Mission Holder situation. Kerry had his drawbacks. He had a history of being overly harsh with staff and the original Stat Push P/L was written for and about him, without his name in it. LRH stated elsewhere he did not understand grammar. But, Kerry also had his positives. He loved to manage and he had a lot of experience and learned from a multitude of mistakes over the years and not just HIS mistakes. He was also a Class XII auditor. With his summary knowledge and experience of umpteen years, Kerry went into ASHO and AOLA as well as other orgs and boomed the stats out the roof. This time it was not stat pushing but using organizational principles. He was helped by CO CMO INT John Nelson who was technically his senior. LRH made comments to the effect that they should not be going into orgs themselves but should be managing them remotely. That is how an executive is supposed to work. I think but do not know that DM used these comments as part of his busting of Kerry.
     In any event, Kerry was showing some extreme positives. He was not being as heavy handed as he had in the past. Still, however, his lack of understanding grammar resulted in him not following policy at times. He could not always integrate it.
     When I restored someone to post because they had not been comm ev’d per policy, I was hauled in by Cathy Rinder and asked about it. I quoted the policy and she began to scream and yell, just like she did with Mike. LRH policy states to ask such a screamer the policy she was operating on and she just yelled. No policy. That was the last straw. I already had her pegged as an SP in my head. There was plenty of other data and many of you will be interested to know that she did the original eval that busted Yvonne. After this event, there was no doubt in my mind. By the way, I never even thought about Mike being so classified. He is different. Her actions now speak for themselves.
     After I refused to budge on the LRH policy (which is what she wanted), I was eventually asked to come upstairs by another exec and a rather physically wimpy one at that. He sat down politely and then started screaming at me. No one had ever talked to me quite like that and he was way off base. Not only rude but dead wrong. I told l him to take it back or I would throw him out the window. He continued screaming and I grabbed him and dragged him to the window (very funny now!) and held him with one hand as I tried to open the windown with one hand. I think it was sealed shut as it was the 3rd floor but I kept trying. Then two other qual people came in and calmed the situation down. They insisted there were references and looked for about a half hour before they gave up. They were all full of shit. Kerry was in the next room and heard everything. I thought it quite cowardly. In any event, his solution was to “promote” me out of the org by awarding me full time training. I accepted and did the OEC and FEBC full time. Actually finished….my last act almost in the Sea Org. What is ironic here is that he was busted not too long after. He had unmocked the qual person who could have saved him. While I certainly did not have enough political power to change WDC, I did not have enough power and comm lines to keep Kerry on his post and I would have done so. International stats did not do well after Kerry was removed and Flag Management became a joke and a worse joke. The second Mission Holder conference was the nail in the coffin and Scientology never recovered.
     This brings us back to the rhetorical question: can actual (beneficial) Scientology be restored? Only with Qual. I have already dedicated my soul to the Exhumation of the Moorish Nation. A good book on this is “Noble Drew Ali: The Exhumation of a Nation” by Sheik Elihu Pleasant-Bey. There is also another nation (unmentioned) that I am trying to exhume (which means to bring back from the dead). As these tasks are far harder that restoring Scientology, I have now answer the rhetorical question.
     It can be done. On what gradient and in what manner is to be seen. I would like to thank Marty for making this blog and allowing this dialogue which has given me more than I expected. I would also like to thank Mike for he struck the greatest blow of all when he walked away from the realm of DM. That was like the “shot heard ’round the world” in Lexington and Concord which started the American Revolution.
     On the Awareness Scale, this is moving up from numbness, at least with regard to the subject of Scientology and its ability to exteriorize others.

171. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:05 am |

     Sam — miss your sense of humor, wish I was still sitting under the stars in your garden 🙂

172. TL Let's Look | October 14, 2010 at 2:07 am |

     Thanks for mentioning this… I was unfamiliar with specifics on Cameron and read some more about him.
     “… His “driving” experiments consisted of putting subjects into drug-induced coma for months on end (up to three in one case) while playing tape loops of noise or simple repetitive statements….”

173. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 2:07 am |

     I told you should call your book Fahrenheit 8-8008. Maybe that is a sign! I think LRH explained the numerology on that one pretty good in 8-8008. Carl Jung said synchronicity is the precursor or gateway to the Tao and he coined the word synchronicity.
     If anyone can give me DM’s date of birth with the time (exact time is very important), I can have an astrology chart done up. I am not an astrologer but I have friends who have studied it their whole lives and they’ve made me very educated on the subject. Pluto is Capricorn for the next 15 years or so…maybe a little more. You can look it up on the net but this mean a complete destruction and reorganization of corporations, institutions, governments and religions. Pluto moves slow and is the plodding planet but it transmutes whatever it touches. This is good news for real Scientology. Per this aspect (without further knowledge), it could take anywhere from 1-15 years for him to bite it. If anyone can give me an exact time on his birth, I can give a better forecast.
     By the way, if you or anyone wants the best printing prices and good quality too, you can go to Patterson Printing in Benton Harbor, Michigan, just about an hour or less from Sarge in St. Joseph. Contact Pam Thames. I’ve never seen better prices and the quality is very good. This is for print runs of 1,000 or more. Lower than that one should just do ordinary print on demand. Quantity 3,000 is the best price break. I would think your book would sell at least 1,000 easy. Right now, the trend in publishing is e-books with print on demand. No storage that way. Also, the best book to read for anyone publishing is Tom and Marilyn Ross’s “The Complete Guide to Self-Publishing”. They update the book regularly to keep up with the industry and it is an excellent hat write up.

174. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:18 am |

     Amy — you are right of course. This is the “public” version, though I dont think they expected this to be recorded. And while there are no recordings publicly available of what happens at the Int Base (other than those locked up in Dear Leader’s Vault) there are plenty of people now who have witnessed those things and are willing to talk about them (very much including you). THere are also documents, and while they are vetted for the vile language, they can’t take everything out (or there would be nothing left n many of the despatches and transcripts) and as they leak their way into the public the picture becomes harder and harder for VE and Tommy Two-Tone to credibly deny.

175. ΘTater/GaryLerner | October 14, 2010 at 2:23 am |

     Centurion,

     I salute you! I have penned this following book in tribute:

     http://www.pageplugins.com/generators/fordummies/dummiebook.swfCool Myspace Generators

     Gary (a villager carrying a torch for DM. Now where’s my fucking matches?)

176. ΘTater/GaryLerner | October 14, 2010 at 2:25 am |

     oops… one more time:

     “http://www.pageplugins.com/generators/fordummies/dummiebook.swfCool Myspace Generators“

177. veritas | October 14, 2010 at 2:27 am |

     Touched by An Angel
     by Maya Angelou

     We, unaccustomed to courage
     exiles from delight
     live coiled in shells of loneliness
     until love leaves its high holy temple
     and comes into our sight
     to liberate us into life.

     Love arrives
     and in its train come ecstasies
     old memories of pleasure
     ancient histories of pain.
     Yet if we are bold,
     love strikes away the chains of fear
     from our souls.

     We are weaned from our timidity
     In the flush of love’s light
     we dare be brave
     And suddenly we see
     that love costs all we are
     and will ever be.
     Yet it is only love
     which sets us free

178. Watching Eyes | October 14, 2010 at 2:28 am |

     “Is it just me or did they say “Stop!” over and over. I counted nearly 20 times in the transcript, how many other inaudible “stop!” ‘s were there?”
     Good point on the frequent use of the word “stop”. I counted 21 times. It makes sense though when you think about it and is actually it’s a good indicator of their tone levels. ANGER. An angry person is all about stopping things.

179. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:31 am |

     Anon SF — you are correct. These are the actions of people who are scared that they not do what Dear Leader tells them to do lest they suffer the same fate (only worse behind the gates at the Int Base). They were hand selected by VE as the people “most likely to impinge” and the family members were selected in order to give it a PR spin (see what Tomm Two-Tone said to the SP Times — this was just a “family matter”). The short conversation I have with my daughter and brother after the end of this recordng and before the police arrived and separated everyone (Jenny L, Bloomberg and Guillaume disappeared before the police arrived) was quite civil. I dont think my brother had any idea what he had gotten himself into — he is not an SO member. My daughter was worried about what the report would be from Mini Me (Jenny) because I guarantee that before they were 10 feet away from the scene of their crime Mini-Me was on the phone to Dear Leader giving her “blow-by-blow” description of what happened. And he would have asked her a dozen time “did you impinge on the fucker” and Mini-Me would have said “Yes, Sir” and then he would have said “What did you say exactly” and she would have embellished a little and said she called me a cock-sucker and told me to shut up and various other things and he would have had a list of things she and the others were supposed to say that he had dictated before they left. And everything they did and said was directed specifically by Miscavige. His Mini-Me is not flown out to Clearwater with 6 other people to do this without his express permission and orders. Nobody in the Church does or says anything to me or Marty without it being cleared by him, including endless “briefings” about exactly what to do as “he is the only one who truly knows how to handle SPs.” I am saying this based on years of experience.

180. ΘTater/GaryLerner | October 14, 2010 at 2:32 am |

     sorry. the code doesn’t work. 😦

181. Karen#1 | October 14, 2010 at 2:34 am |

     Mike Rinder has consistently been very low key on the Blogs about the abuse he suffered at DM’s hands. Marty will agree with me ~~~ Mike Rinder was beaten, punched, assaulted, bruised to level of Felony Assault numerous times at INT. It has been reported by eye witnesses many of them, including Marty ~~violence. Steve Hall reported DM grabbing Mike Rinder’s head and body-slamming his head into the cherry wood cabinets. It was a battering.

     There are numerous reports of these repeated beatings ~~ violent beatings directly from DM’s hand to Mike Rinder. Dozens and Dozens of them. Even though this is Felony Assault, Law enforcement was never informed.
     Within the culture of the SO it is strictly and utterly forbidden to report internal crimes to law enforcement.

     Anderson Cooper reported ~~
     But during that time, Rathbun and others said Miscavige – Rathbun’s immediate superior – frequently assaulted subordinates. He said Mike Rinder, the church’s spokesman until 2007, bore the brunt of the attacks. In a 2000 meeting, he said Miscavige pinned Rinder against a table “and was whacking him upside the head,” then began choking him and eventually threw him to the ground by his neck.

     “He had marks on his neck for a week,” Rathbun said.

     But the Hypocritical Miscavige will use law Enforcement in a heart’s beat on a lifetime SO member as in the Daniel Montalvo ~~ IF it is suits his purpose.

     One time in recent months Mike and I were talking about INT Base and DM cruelty and Mike shared with me how he was sent to fields to live in isolation with only a garden hose (and an open latrine). The food was Oliver Twist slop. Then he would be forced to dress, give a speech at an Int event, and immediately after return to isolation in the brush of the open fields. IT WAS SURREAL. This life was unknown to the world…

     Marc Headly started leaking these incidents but I will give credit to Larry Brennan who has reported eye witnessing David Miscavige beatings since 1982.

     28 YEARS of FELONY ASSAULT without Law Enforcement intervention

     The hypocrisy and absurdity of FREEDOM magazine boggles the mind. DM pretends Mike Rinder was abandoning his family (witness escapade in the Parking lot)

     when DM ORDERED IT personally

     At the time of the earlier BBC show ~~
     The first week of June, Rinder says, the church leader wrote that he was to be sent to a remote part of Australia. And a manager in the London office told Rinder that Miscavige had phoned to say that first he was to report to the church’s facility in Sussex, England, and dig ditches. He was not to return to the United States

182. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:34 am |

     OTWS — the real answer to #3 is David Miscavige. He is also every WDC post, every CMO International post, every Exec Strata post, every Gold post, every FB post. In fact, in the words of Sue Wilhere: “David Miscavige IS Scentology.” Now that’s something to be proud of!

183. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:36 am |

     +1 to that

184. ExVet | October 14, 2010 at 2:38 am |

     People standing up, pointing at DM and laughing at him (instead of fearing him) has got to be the little prick’s worst nightmare. Your hilarious satire just reminded me of that.

185. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:40 am |

     Dylan — not sure about the “fine tuning”, “turbocharging” maybe more appropriate? And you havent seen her when she’s behind closed doors!!

186. eddieVroom | October 14, 2010 at 2:41 am |

     Are you saying that David Miscavige is going “Psycho Ex-Girlfriend” mode?

187. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:44 am |

     LOL Jackson.

188. veritas | October 14, 2010 at 2:52 am |

     This is very disturbing. Were these 7 really angry, or was it all for effect? Neither redeems the severity of the behavior. Obviously, there was premeditated planning and assault, and the transcript documents a string of repeated phrases like sound bytes out of incidences of pain and unconsciousness (engrams)! Which is worse, the premeditated ambush of an individual, as they did with Mike, to introvert, traumatize and cave the person in with accusations that he had “harmed” them ? Or was this group of 7 driving around in a car, insanely angry until they “happened” to find Mike in a parking lot and spilled out?

     One aspect of “reverse Dianetics” is the knowledge about human beings being basically good, and the only way to really kill or harm a good being is to convince the being they have harmed someone or something. Despite the seeming “spontaneity” of the emotions, what is truly disturbing is the obvious calculated repetition and content of the shouting, i.e. dishonesty to the extreme.

     Mike is the only one (and later the doctor) who is live, cogent communication.

     This is profoundly disturbing on a level of social conscience, that these psychotic 7 are top officials and members of a tax exempt organization claiming to offer spiritual guidance and Scientology. It’s an extreme violation of trust as they are violating what their “trademark” is supposed to be selling.

     It’s also disturbing on another level, and that is personal. I’m heartbroken to read these things being done to good people. It’s wrong, in any language, in any culture, in any religion.

     There it is: live. On tape. Caught by the providence of the theta universe and divine justice. The ambush squadron no doubt thought Mike was, like them, contriving a communication when he said they were being taped by the BBC. But there is such a thing as Theta. As human respect and human decency.

     Really, I’m at a loss for words …there simply are none to express my horror, concern and heartbreak.

     p.s. Mike, that’s a pass on TRs … :-\

189. Cured Robot | October 14, 2010 at 3:00 am |

     fucking a!

190. lunamoth | October 14, 2010 at 3:07 am |

     Raindog,

     The point here is that none of these people were acting on their own determinism, so whether they are trained or not is not the least bit of an issue.
     The are essentially ventriloquist dummies for a cowardly, desperate little man who makes others confront his enemies and do all of his dirty work. Everything that comes out of their mouths originated in miscavige’s fevered mind. They have surrendered their own determinism, their own viewpoints and their own identities to the winning valence.

191. lucy | October 14, 2010 at 3:25 am |

     THIS IS WHAT OUR DONATIONS HAVE BOUGHT! Round trip tickets for 6 execs who should be managing the straight up and vertical expansion the church has experienced since 2007, but instead find it more important to fly across the country to “handle” a guy who doesn’t want to be apart of their group anymore and has made that abundantly clear in many different ways.

     What a great use of resources and this will for sure clear the planet and make us all FREE!

192. Stan | October 14, 2010 at 3:29 am |

     Mike, hats off to you, you were as cool as a cucumber; I can’t even imagine how difficult it must have been to have people that you really care about acting like complete psychos!!

     Just reading this transcript made my blood pressure rise!! Anyway, you handled yourself like a pro and I was so glad to see you having a video camera with you now to document this sort of thing.

193. AnotherJeff | October 14, 2010 at 3:32 am |

     Ohhh, so this is what it looks like when you have people eat, breathe, sleep and live black Dianetics. Thanks for the live demo guys!

194. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 3:33 am |

     I’m just back from tons of fresh fall air and lots of exercise. I have to add to the inanity of the crew sent to ‘handle’ Mike. They forgot to wear the party hats.

     Now, read the transcript/listen to the tape and picture them in party hats. That should clarify this episode. It was supposed to be a party. Orchestrated by a Madder Hatter.

     I can’t play the tape recording personally. I tried, my poor cat had a seizure.

195. Fellow Traveller | October 14, 2010 at 3:38 am |

     mq — a BIG, HEARTFELT, THANK YOU for your past, present and future.

     Bruce Pratt

196. Grasshopper | October 14, 2010 at 3:49 am |

     Wow, MQ.

     Totally agree with you on Qual. An excellent Qual keeps things pure.

     Can REAL Scientology be rehabilitated? Yes. But there will be no SO, or if there is, it will not “run” Scientology. Those days are gone. If you are including the management structure LRH put together in the bucket of real Scientology, however, then my answer it no. The tech will live, though, and is living.

197. Joe Howard | October 14, 2010 at 3:54 am |

     And just to be clear about the accuracy of the title of this post “Miscavige Meltdown–The Proof,” none of those attack dogs ever talked like that in all the years I knew them. Not even Jenny Linson, though she was much, much easier for DM to train than the others. These dogs had to be beaten within an inch of their thetan lives to froth like that. I worked with Cathy in RTRC and she was very good hearted, funny as hell and smart. That was obviously beaten out of her. Guillaume is still lionized by many in Europe. These people had to undergo severe personality readjustments at the hands of the one and only (if only that were true) David Miscavige to degrade them to that level of pack mentality. Some of these same people later sat around congratulating themselves on what a great ass kicking job they did on the AC 360 show. Seriously. That’s what we are dealing with, folks. Marty nailed the post title precisely.

198. OTDT | October 14, 2010 at 3:58 am |

     Wow. Metaqual, simply out of curiosity, can you provide your name?

199. OTDT | October 14, 2010 at 4:01 am |

     Quicktime should play the audio file.

200. CL | October 14, 2010 at 4:07 am |

     Watching Eyes, thanks for posting these resources. It definitely gives people a place to seek redress for any fraud, misrepresentation, or other activities to which they (and many others) may have become victims. Your reference to the Pinellas County Department of Justice and Consumer Services , #727-464-6200 or 727-453-7441, may be especially helpful for people in the Clearwater area. Of course the state-wide agency also has the ability to provide additional assistance.

     It is also very important to note that the reports become public records, much like police reports or other info maintained as part of government business. In Florida, the media often relies on this public record info to verify or substantiate the info they discovered via other sources. The story is almost written for them via public records access, it makes their
     jobs so easy. I think that some national media are also becoming savvy about liberal public records in Florida. They are much more likely to report on issues when they can easily “verify the info” in the public
     records . For example, many people can report/complain to the media about the activities of an organization, group or individual, but the extent of the coverage may be dependant on the media’s ability to verify
     the info. Apparently if they see that the person reported the problem to consumer protection or other enforcement agencies the writer can better backup his/her sources.
     Also, thanks to Marty, Mike, Christie et.al for this forum. It is important in so many ways. I feel like I’ve missed so much recently-any CliffNotes available? I’m still digesting the details about Daniel’s situation and this most recent transcript of the confrontation that Mike endured! You guys are awesome!
     Cl

201. Scott Campbell | October 14, 2010 at 4:14 am |

     Question.

     Why do chicks like vampires so much?

     I await your replies with baited breath…

     Scott

202. Barney Rubble | October 14, 2010 at 4:19 am |

     Michael Rindr,
     This blog after a bit of a drawl , has officially risen my TA.
     I am now officially mad as hell! This taped recording is proof, well we not say more?

     For OSA and others we know who we are.

203. Tony DePhillips | October 14, 2010 at 4:19 am |

     Amazing production Helmut and Hellen!! 🙂

204. Joe Howard | October 14, 2010 at 4:21 am |

     I will vouche for the Ross’ self-publishing manual. United Book Press in Baltimore is also an excellent printing house.

205. Grasshopper | October 14, 2010 at 4:37 am |

     One more on this one – Marty, you let loose the dogs on this one, and good for you.

     After thinking about this incident today, and the extreme insanity and vitriol, I have to say it makes me embarrassed to be a Scientologist. All the embarrassment of all the stupid shenanigans and crazy activities just hit me all at once. All the justifications for all the idiotic despotic decisions.

     I can just hear every non-Scientologist out there: “You belonged to THAT??? How could you?”

     And, I have to say, yes, I did belong to that. It’s complicated. But embarrassing as hell. The shrewish cacophony of Jenny Linsen screeching like a harpy on Red Bull just brought back so many warm memories, and I have to admit to myself, yes, I belonged to that. There are so many good and decent people who are and were Scientologists, but there is also that.

     Embarrassing as hell!

206. OT VIII | October 14, 2010 at 5:00 am |

     Ahhhh, the intellectual TIP of the pyramid of Miscavige’s house of madmen (and women).

     That whole MAD bunch must go. It will be a great day when the Thug and all his little Thuiglets are gone.

207. OT VIII | October 14, 2010 at 5:07 am |

     There is no religion higher than the truth.

208. Grasshopper | October 14, 2010 at 5:21 am |

     Marty, who dubbed it “The Hole?” Was it DM, or was it a nick-name by the staff?

209. OT VIII | October 14, 2010 at 5:34 am |

     Not a single person at the current upper management level can have EVER exteriorized with any perception, full or partial. This is evident in their conduct. “Scientology”, in their minds, must be no more than a paramilitary club they belong to.

     For a short time, “exteriorization” was the EP for a given basic TR.

     I pity the current SCN public. For the most part, they don’t get the wins we did. Nothing brings fresh public in like folks who are all on fire about their wins.

     No wins? No or little dissemination. Shrunken Orgs, remnants of what they were in the mid 70s.

210. Tara | October 14, 2010 at 5:54 am |

     vulgar=characterized by ignorance of or lack of good breeding or taste. 😉

211. Tatiana Baklanova | October 14, 2010 at 6:02 am |

     Hello Marty and all!
     I have an idea that I’d like to share with you as a group.

     There are Scientologists – OTs and highly trained auditors who do not audit sitting on a failed purpose charge. I think that to revitalize the original purpose of Scientology we can apply a rehab tech. All we need to do is to find a moment of change, a making break point and indicate it. The moment when Ron and Church diverged from true Scientology ending up moving the other and then in opposite direction. I think I see when and how it happened.

     Ron had a big goal in mind that he urged to reach. But at some point, somewhere when he wrote (was it a Bulletin?) that we have to build a new world with people that he compared to a broken hey (?) Ron went into agreement with a thought that lowed the standard level of ability expected. I think he felt that he was running out of time and having to act in a group and to delegate responsibility to those he didn’t fully trust (broken hey), he still wanted to get the job done somehow, anyhow. And that was when he started to cope with situation instead of handling it. And church went on coping – fixing things by any means instead of handling. Shortcuts…

     I am talking about Justice taking place of Ethics.

     Justice could be used as a temporary solution in an absence of Ethics, but it is a dead end way if applied permanently. It is not a scientology way to go. It is like a wrong dosage of medicine can turn it into a poison.

     We should return back to the moment when things were going right and pick up from there. I suggest we learn and teach to apply a true Ethics. It was supposed to be delivered by auditors. Why? Because it was not a punishment (justice action) that it had became in the church, but a process where ability was gained, new awareness level reached, theta was freed.
     Mary Freeman specializes in delivering such true Ethics. She regards the lower conditions as ones that address beingness, from liability up through non-ex, emergency and danger as handling doingness and normal and up – where you deal with product as havingness. She has a different approach and her Ethics program routinely creates miracles of life changing results, as it should be when true scientology is applied.

     At least the spotting and understanding the moment of diverging should bring a relief to some of us who suffer from the failed purpose.

212. Tara | October 14, 2010 at 6:19 am |

     AMAZING AND INSPIRING – to say the least. Great news!

213. Centurion | October 14, 2010 at 6:26 am |

     I am so glad to create some laughter in this thread. But, if you want to salute anyone, then please salute our immortal liberators, Mike, Marty, and all who work so very hard to keep the independent field informed.

     You know, since I can still enter orgs, I was very tempted to go on course and offer to coach TRs, and use some of the dialog from the transcript on the bullbait section.

     Q “Do birds fly?”
     A “You have a fucking axe to grind and you are not in present time”
     Q “I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?”
     A “Fucker”
     Q “I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?”
     A “Oh, Jenny you’re really helping”
     Q “I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?”
     A “You stay away from Benjamin, you mother fucker”
     Q “I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?”
     A “Take the keys out”
     Q “I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?”
     A “Mike, Fuck you, Mike, Fuck you”
     etc.

     I mean, honestly…what the current execs lack in abilility to come to PT and see DM for what he is, they more than make up in generating some of the best bullbait I have ever seen.

     Mike, all this time you just thought you were being harrased in a parking lot and you were actually doing field research into creative bullbait.

     Now that is what I call Exchange Condition 4. Take a win.

     Centurion

214. Cat Daddy | October 14, 2010 at 6:31 am |

     “he is the only one who truly knows how to handle SPs.”

     Because DM is “the onley one who can help”.

215. Mark Fisher | October 14, 2010 at 6:50 am |

     Thanks Karen for your insight.

     I just finished listening to the recording tonight after reading the transcript earlier today and I must say Mike that you handled it with complete professionalism and excellent TRs considering the surprising and chaotic situation.

     Listening makes me very sad. I knew Cathy when I was in the Sea Org. Cathy and I shared an office for awhile and were good friends. This was not the same person that I knew on these recordings. I’m sure Mike will agree that Cathy was a funny, warm, intelligent person. The person you see on TV and hear on this recording is not the Cathy that I knew. It is like she is a different person – completely out of valence. It shows how powerfully evil DM is and to what lengths he will go to maintain his suppressive control.

     I don’t care how strong someone is, it had to be painful for Mike to have this happen and our hearts go out to you Mike.

     If anyone doubts why Mike is doing what he is doing, I am sure saving his daughter, son and former wife are at the top of the list.

216. Krautfag | October 14, 2010 at 7:07 am |

     Here you go:

     http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S1VHQXUM

217. OT VIII | October 14, 2010 at 7:23 am |

     Yeah, Dr. Goebbels took care of it for him, but now one leg’s three inches shorter.

218. Stan | October 14, 2010 at 8:14 am |

     Mike, really, when I read this transcript, I could feel my blood pressure start to rise. I can’t imagine how you kept your cool when people you care about are saying the kinds of awful things they were saying to you.

     Hats off to you. BTW, isn’t it interesting how your ex accuses you of not wanting to communicate with your family and then attacks you for trying to do just that?

     Also, I was thrilled to see you had a video camera with you when you had the PI show up. Please, keep it with you at all times!!

219. Erwin Croughs | October 14, 2010 at 8:21 am |

     VVVWD on shedding suppression! I love your independence, expansion and wonderful site. I couldn’t help noticing that you guys made 16 auditors whereas in the Advance Mag of AOEU they had only 3. It’s a fact; you outperform C of M big time and I wonder how Davey is going to justify that in his next Freedom Mag.

220. Samuel | October 14, 2010 at 8:25 am |

     GeoffH,

     you also sound like one of those “priests”.

     You must have missed that he also repeatedly used the word “the” and so “did the same” as the gang of seven: A = A = A. What a wonderful world to live in.

     Don’t you wanna suggest to David Miscavige (yes, every time his name is used on this blog, Google has one more reason to point to this site when someone is searching for him) to use the advanced “restoration technology” and edit the audio to bring it back to its “original form”: then you can hear Mike swearing like a psychotic truck driver at a screeching level and the every-inch-of-his-body women desperately and soothingly trying to calm him down – but don’t forget to add a lot of base to that “restored” voice of Mike as he just can peep that high.

     How black and how white does something have to be for you before you can see that they are not quite identical?

221. Sam | October 14, 2010 at 8:42 am |

     Stella
     You need the Windows Media Player for Mac.
     Download and install the flip4mac plug in which will allow you to play the file in Quicktime.
     http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyId=915D874D-D747-4180-A400-5F06B1B5E559&displaylang=en

222. Samuel | October 14, 2010 at 9:07 am |

     OK, let’s see how many visits there will be at the IAS event tomorrow.

     More than 8000?
     Less than 8000?

     Or rather:

     How much less than 8000?

     And don’t forget the EFFORT exerted for weeeeeks on end prior to this D-vent by Int, ILO (FLO), CLOs, Orgs, Missions, groups and spooks to hopefully fill that place. It’s a nightmare if you are involved but “everybody” seems to be involved these days in “everything” from regging to begging to collecting overdosed attendeeeeeeees trying to get a bit of fresh air and routing them straight back to the “Great” Hall implant.

223. Samuel | October 14, 2010 at 9:31 am |

     The C of M’s invitation video for the 15 – 17 October D-vent (15th being the live event).

     http://www.events.scientology.org/events/invite.html

     Yeah, guess we are going to get their Clicks up straight and vertical if a few do check it out – won’t give them additional attendees though – well, not that convincing, I guess. Lots of old footage and the horses are still very dominant – maybe it’s a horse show.

224. George | October 14, 2010 at 10:01 am |

     Living at Int or maybe all SO looks for me like living on a space ship. Reading all that very strongly reminds me on that. My solution had been to stay at the lowest org board level possible. It always ended that way on a ship. A captain going crazy and all with him. Lucky us we are on a planet and that we can go ashore.
     Living at Int is like an experiment for long time space flight to Mars. How people behave and finding ways to handle it if things go off the rails. And a handling without external influence seems impossible. Very interseting to see that a small society without contact to other groups cannot heal or correct themselfs. Like North Corea, China, Soviet Union eg. External influence is needed and part of sanity. And the possibility to blow the game.

225. Harry Potter | October 14, 2010 at 10:32 am |

     As a heads up, if she’s in ASI, then she’s probably been to Int since ASI is basically parallel to RTC and just a small bit below them. Most people in CMO Int would call ASI staff “Sir”. ASI staff members frequently attend base events and functions. The ASI qualifications are above those of just an ordinary Int org.

226. Erwin Croughs | October 14, 2010 at 10:41 am |

     Definitions apply but your idea is a flunk.

227. Harry Potter | October 14, 2010 at 10:44 am |

     I have never seen, heard or imagined a more psychotic or rabid person as Jenny Linson Devocht. When she arrived at the Int Base in the late 90s and DM set her lose to shake things up, she was a savage pitbull.

     On the other hand, with the cool people she seemed to like, she was nice, cool and dare I say even kind.

228. Erwin Croughs | October 14, 2010 at 10:45 am |

     Not a numerologist but isn’t that about bringing an apparant something down to an actual nothing?

229. Erwin Croughs | October 14, 2010 at 11:29 am |

     Those materials can be used for more than a doubt formula: his Freakdom acknowledges that the Church ambushed Mike with 7 members, making denial impossible. It proves what happens to apostates who speak up and that it happens because they speak up, proving that the Church intimidates witnesses and inhibits communication by overwhelm while slandering apostates for not communicating, both actionable under existing law.

     No member can ever give reliable testimony with regards to internal atrocities and stay member. Moreover, they can’t even speak up while apostate without being harassed. This muzzle can easily be compared to the maffia’s code of silence or the catholic cover-up of child abuse, both actionable under existing law.

     For a church witnesses (or anyone) it’s impossible to attest under oath that Davey never hit anyone because he could have done so at times they weren’t with him. To attest that somebody never did something is by definition perjury because you can’t always be around and awake, 24/7/365.

     His first lieutenant Tommy proofed on international tv that if a Church member witnesses assault and battery, it won’t be reported outside because it’s handled internally. This corroborates that any member seeing Davey battering staff can’t speak up because per policy it will be handled internally and that makes all statements of members in court about atrocities illegal and breaks the “my word against his word” conundrum.

     His Freakdom shows pictures of big burns and states: “Rinder grabs hold of his wife’s arms in a vice-like grip—causing lacerations which bled so much that paramedics were called to come and give her first aid.” But any doctor can attest to the fact that the burns shown can’t be caused by a tight grip; publishing this slanders Mike and covers the real bully. As soon as Davey realizes the magnitude of these legal flubs, he will take out the web pages and paper trail or just rewrite history in one fell swoop.

230. Jethro Bodine | October 14, 2010 at 11:44 am |

     Hey Mike,
     I bet you have to listen to these tapes and think to yourself, “I’m so glad I’m no longer at the Int Base”. All I heard was the ranting and ravings from some brainwashed cult members from the controversial Church of Miscavigology.

231. KB | October 14, 2010 at 11:55 am |

     Good god.

     Only 2 things to say here:

     1) Mike, you are a decent person – always were, and it comes out even more clearly here. You shine bright while the cur dogs and banshee hound you. That they used your family…..well, let us say that sunshine disinfects, and here are DOX to shine the light on what this “church” really is.

     2) The Co$ clearly do not believe auditing works, nor do they believe in Scientology.

232. Your humble servant | October 14, 2010 at 12:11 pm |

     Thank you for this very inspiring and personal story. The truth, though fought, always in the end prevails! (LRH).

233. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 12:19 pm |

     Thanks Samuel.

234. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 12:24 pm |

     Veritas,
     If a being were to resonate at the frequency of the ‘Tewwible Seven’, then one will experience by sympathy (resonating) what was put out. That’s the aim. On the other hand, shifting frequency/wavelength, up (hard to go down as this stuff is already in such a Tone as to be approaching a contained explosion that is near to matter) one can actually dissipate the emanating frequency and not have any sympathetic resonance – i.e., no bad aftertaste/restim.

     Mike manages to cause a dispersal of the intended directed flow by holding a position and staying uptoner in his response. The ‘attack’ is dispersed and caroms around in the space of the attackers, (they are in a limited space by dint of their own extension of space defining points, extent of attention) and the effect is pretty much among themselves. They contradict each other, bang around on each other and are effect of their own cause – THEY are enturbulated.

     One could, by analogy, take a large theta ping-pong paddle and bat the ball of entheta back whence it came (the Int Base where DM lives and rolls up this entheta ball).

     Another option is to carry a stash of Halloween candy and give a piece or several to each of these goblins. Or hand out party hats.

235. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 12:26 pm |

     I think DM, Mike will know.

236. Your humble servant | October 14, 2010 at 12:35 pm |

     I have no doubt you are correct–this entire drama was staged and directed by madman Miscavige. To him, the whole world is full of enemies who are about to destroy him. Thus, his orchestrated “shock and awe” handling of having puppets scream at the target “Stop (obscenity) stop.” This suppressive madness undoubtedly was very effective many times with loyal subordinates who could not get an inkling or couldn’t confront how evil and out of valence he was. It is not likely that it could ever work for him at all out in the broader society, but he has no experience there.

237. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 12:39 pm |

     Tatiana,
     A question: How would justice relate to the overt/motivator sequence and the balance of flows (see Tech 88/PDC lectures) that beings get into (flows that is)as per Factor 24?

     “24. And the viewpoints are never seen. And the viewpoints consider more and more that the dimension points are valuable. And the viewpoints try to become the anchor points and forget that they can create more points and space and forms. Thus comes about scarcity. And the dimension points can perish and so the viewpoints assume that they, too, can perish.”

     This balancing of the ledger of the overt/motivator sequence is part and parcel to the duration known as ‘time’. ‘Justice’ may well be the agreed-upon mechanism of societal persistence/survival/’time’.

     What do you think a culture without some form of redress would be like? (Assuming it is not a culture that is more or less Clear.)

238. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 12:40 pm |

     Marty: Methinks you think right. It was DM’s name….

239. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 12:47 pm |

     V, I don’t believe they thought Mike was contriving anything. They are not permitted to think. They are drilled by Miscavige. They get validated if they do like they did. If they don’t, they get tortured.

240. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 12:52 pm |

     Thanks CL — Sage advice from someone who knows. Not sure about Cliffnotes — I guess that is just reading Marty’s postings without any of the follow up comments?? 🙂 Mike

241. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 12:54 pm |

     Confirmation.

242. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 12:58 pm |

     Jimbo — Yeah, I think you’re right. You know how much Dave likes to throw a memorable party. He likes party games too — I clearly recall the wildest musical chairs ever at one of Dave’s parties.

243. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 1:00 pm |

     Stan — Thanks. I actually had a video camera with me then, but I was standing talking on the phone (fortunately to the BBC). I did not want to hang up. And with a swarm of screeching mosquitos it seemed more important at that moment to keep the phone line open.

244. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 1:07 pm |

     Jethro,
     I perceived a sort of permeating evil purpose frequency at Int on arrival. This became more and more apparent as time went on. I commented on it to my ex-wife (also at the Base) and she had noticed it as well.

     As soon as I got on the bus in LA, having been declared by DM and put off the property, I felt a large measure of relief from this frequency. I voiced it ‘aloud’ to myself – ‘Thank God I’m out of that nuthouse’.

     Being free of this evil purpose frequency permeated space, I was eventually able to isolate the source of the wave. It was the generality of it, that is the failure to isolate the source, that ARC Broke/bypassed charge. Spotting DM as the Entheta Reactor/Pile and Stirrer-Upper of Group Engram/New Engram on the Chainer Guy (he effectively exascerbated earlier laid in Group Engrams and the early 80’s ‘purges’ as well as taking Group Engram/Aribtraries to Handle Emergencies to heady heights), gave me enough as-isness to disconnect/disenturbulate and add to that initial relief.

     This is Theta-MEST Theory stuff. Thorough study and auditing since leaving DM’s nuthouse has recovered much more free theta. Now I’m directing it to the source of the problem and I’ll be damned but that it works like a charm. AND it’s fun as it could be again 🙂

245. Samuel | October 14, 2010 at 1:08 pm |

     No, yours is convoluted thinking. It’s just a number.

246. Pericles | October 14, 2010 at 1:36 pm |

     October 23, 2010

247. Pericles | October 14, 2010 at 1:38 pm |

     That’s the one at Flag…….

248. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 1:42 pm |

     Stan,

     To give some context to this.

     In 2009 I was living in Denver. Miscavige sent a delegation there to “handle” me not to “attack” him. Tommy Davis and Jessica Feshbach were the advance party, visiting people and telling them they were there to see me (didnt see me directly). Miscavige’s personal attorney, Monique Yingling then called me and said she and another attorney wanted to meet. I did so (Marty and Jason Beghe also flew in for the party). Yingling and Bill Walsh did their best to try to threaten me “not to get in a war” and tried to persuade me to “settle” with the Church. I declined. I asked to meet with Tommy but he stayed in hiding at the Ritz Carlton with Jessica and never did meet me. I told Yingling I was concerned that Tommy had flown all the day to Denver and that he had failed to even see me and he would return to a beating by Miscavige for being a loser.

     Yingling asked me if I wanted to talk to my family — I told her of course I did, but I was not willing to have them used as pawns to try and control me in order to be able to speak to them.

     She asked me if there was anyone else I would meet or talk to and I told her Shelly Miscavige and asked her where she was. That didnt work out either, though I don’t think Shelly was at the Ritz Carlton.

     Fast forward a few months when the Church flew 17 people to Clearwater and insisted they all meet with Joe Childs and Tom Tobin (which they did). Again, Yingling and Walsh were present. Subsequent to this, Childs and Tobin engaged in the inevitable back and forth with Yingling and Tommy Two-Tone and of course the Church flooded them with “D/A” materials.

     Now forward in a time a bit more to the phone call I received from Joe Childs. He was very apologetic, saying he had something he needed to ask me about that was rather unpleasant. He said that Monique Yingling had told him that Cathy (my ex wife) had flown to Denver to tell me that our son had cancer, and that I had refused to talk with her or meet her. I told Joe that nothing of the sort had ever happened and I had two witnesses to exactly what transpired. Yingling had NEVER mentioned that Cathy was in Denver. Cathy had NOT tried to call me (Yingling called me on my cell phone several times, Cathy could have too). Yingling had NEVER mentioned that my son had cancer or that there was even any issue with him.

     Now forward further to a series of false affidavits that were part of the “D/A” sent to the St Pete Times. Here was Cathy saying how I had totally abandoned my son when he had cancer and how I had refused to commuunicate with him and how the upset of me abandoning him had precipitated his cancer!! (BTW — he is reportedly fully recovered).

     So two weeks before this parking lot incident I had gone to the Fort Harrison to try and see him.

     Marty, me and Mareka James (who had known him for many years and insisted on trying to see him) showed up at the front door of the Fort Harrison and I asked to see Benajmin. The terrified guard at the door nearly wet his pants and stuttered out “he doesnt want to see you” without even checking with him. Then some overweight PI with food dribbling down his chin showed up and trid to play the heavy. We stepped back onto public property while the security guard threatened to call the police. I told him I didnt mind, I would wait for the police to show up (the Church now says I called the police — while it doesnt matter one way or the other, it is on the video we took and just another example of how they will say anything). When the police showed up and I explained to them what had happened they issued a Trespass warning (required by law when someone claims someone else was trespassing so that in the future that person knows that they could be liable — in truth I had only approached the front door of the Ft Harrison and asked to see my son) and then one of the officers went inside with Peter Mansell (CO OSA) and spoke to Benjamin. The officer came back and told me Benjamin did not want to talk to me (no big surprise under the circumstances) and I left.

     But not before Peter Mansell pulled me aside and asked to speak to me privately without anyone else around. He told me he considered me a “friend” and that I was not like “the others (Marty)” and that he disagreed with this and thought I should be able to speak to Benjamin and that this was not how he would handle things, he was just following orders. He said he wished me good luck. I hope he tries to deny this account.

     This is what precipitated the three ring verbal porno circus that ensued outside the doctor’s office. Dear Leader wanted to “teach me a lesson” not to come near his buildings. He tried to do the same after I went to St Hill, but that’s a story for another day.

     Mike

249. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 1:47 pm |

     JB — Bullseye….

250. Kirsi | October 14, 2010 at 1:58 pm |

     I´ll miss the monumental event but undoubtedly will learn about the new price tags of total freedom.

     How about the Tech dictionary? Will this ever see the light of day? Ah, but nobody can keep up with the profound new definitions, abbreviations and pronunciations of Scientology as redefined by DM. Plus that last posted Illustrator got busted forcing DM to paint the pictures for you, too.

251. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 2:00 pm |

     Erwin,

     Those were not “burns’ — they were grazes. I told the Sheriff’s at the time that I had no idea how they occured. My borther told them the same thing.

     There was a lot of scuffling when I was attempting to walk back to my car and when I tried to open the doors they were trying to stop me, then when I tried to close the door they were trying to stop that too. Cathy and others had their arms jammed inside the door of the car trying to reach the keys to take them out of the ignition and so did my brother who had gotten into the passenger seat. Then when the car key was bent and I let go because my brother said I was breaking his finger (again, he told the police there were no injuries — of course later Tommy Two-Tone said I broke his finger, violent individual that I am),I truied to get back out of the car to get to the doctor’s office and they tried to stop me from doing that too. So, there was a lot of scuffling and pushing and shoving that took place.

     I dont know if I grabbed Cathy’s arm or not — I suspect those sort of grazes came from scraping her arm on the car door as she was trying to prevent me from closing it. I can’t imagine how I (or anyone) could graze away the skin on someone’s forearm by holding their arm — I have done this as a kid in fights and you end up with red skin, but it doesnt tear. And it wasnt scratches like you get from fingernails. You need something sharper than the palm of your hand to graze skin.

     Cathy then started psychotically screaming at the doctor that “you’ve got my blood on your hands”. When the doctors office called 911 they askied if there was any need for medical attention. The Receptionist reported there was blood, so the paramedics were sent in addition to the Sheriff’s deputies.

252. Tara | October 14, 2010 at 2:01 pm |

     Don’t forget to count the NOI peeps if they do any kind of live feed there too. 😉

253. Tara | October 14, 2010 at 2:01 pm |

     …Or even if they don’t.

254. Kookaburra | October 14, 2010 at 2:04 pm |

     Watching Eyes, your variation on troll spray is great. If you don’t mind, I’d like to transport the idea to ESMB. It has got to be the most effective handling ever!

255. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 2:11 pm |

     KB,
     You: “The Co$ clearly do not believe auditing works, nor do they believe in Scientology.”

     I wouldn’t go so far as to assign this to the whole ‘church’, the group. If you mean the ‘Cof$’ as a group organism/entity with its own survival urges as opposed to the CofS, the one off the rails of its initial Ideal, Rationale and Ethic, then it would be more relatively true.

     This can be described as a created problem of certainties by the Mind of the Cof$, DM. He puts on a great public show of ‘certain that it works’ opposed by the actualities revealed here and elsewhere of ‘certain that it doesn’t work’ (so he has to ‘improve’ it with GAT, his forged HCOBs, Tech Directives, and such). You then wrap up the group in a persistent ‘maybe’ and that indecision while absorbed in this balanced two-sided problem manifests in the contradiction you’ve noted.

     These ‘Scientologists’ rampaging in the incident described don’t apply Scientology. They are merely robotically doing as they are told by David Miscavige as ‘super-continual PTSes’. DM is afraid Scientology DOES work. The bulk of the remainder of his Int Base are so compromised in integrity with mutual out-rudiments with him, they are in Treason (out of valence- HCOB 2 Aug 69 LX Lists “Perverts, suppressives and critical, snide, ruthless, arrogant or contemptuous personalities are always out of valence. A person who is in treason on the 1st dynamic is always out of valence.”) on their first dynamics, they aren’t ‘themselves’. They are in the dilemma, certain it does work/certain it doesn’t – that is, PTS.

256. OnceUponaTime | October 14, 2010 at 2:19 pm |

     Jim,

     I thought this would be a perfect halloween soundtrack to supplant what we have been using outside the door to scare the tricker-treaters. First I tested it on my cats, who are so used to me testing crap on them that they rolled their cat eyes and gave me the cat version of the finger before they strolled off. I followed them to apologize, but too late. They were squatting on my pillow as a demonstration of their disgust.

     Knowing I couldn’t subject the neighborhood kids to such language, I muffled the voices but retained the rancor. Ah man, I got to tell you, three different kids had seizures and went catatonic. Just like your cat.

     Now I want to get a van with a good sound system and sit outside various orgs and play this for staff and public. “Notice how your top execs deftly use the comm cycle to raise ARC and convert entheta to theta. With these guys at the helm, we should have a cleared planet in…” looking at my watch…”….well, pretty soon.”

     Michael

257. WN | October 14, 2010 at 2:27 pm |

     Went cross-eyed reading this event. Talk about exhausting.

258. atcause | October 14, 2010 at 2:29 pm |

     Were we really hearing these people speaking or someone else?

     Could it have been David Miscavige speaking through these people?

     Could it be David Miscavige speaking and they are the via, the PTS, the trouble source and he the true source?

     Could we go through the transcript and replace “JL”, “CR” with “DM”, “DM”, “DM”?

259. TL Let's Look | October 14, 2010 at 2:30 pm |

     – BUMP –
     – BUMP –
     Good context.

260. Dave Adams | October 14, 2010 at 2:34 pm |

     Lord of the Flies. With a bit of 1984 and Battlefield Earth.

     The solution doesn’t lie in solving the problems IN the stories (or in reality), but in growing so that the dichotomy of the problems loses its compelling significance.

     And new futures can be created without them.

     Exteriorizing from the GPM so to speak.

     Your space ship analogy is good, but then what is a planet, but a larger scale isolating system? And just as in smaller groups, diversity protects us from our own inclinations towards enforced agreement. Enforced agreement, in the Reactive Mind, in religion, or in political systems and governments, seems to be the point of control and the defining point between sanity and otherwise.

     It is not sane to enforce reality on others, it is not sane to agree to enforced reality.

261. Watching Eyes | October 14, 2010 at 2:51 pm |

     Kookaburra, go for it! The more people who are educated on what to do and where to write for help, the better. And I hope it’ll help keep the trolls at bay. The cult doesn’t want this info known. Education = Power.

262. Samuel | October 14, 2010 at 2:51 pm |

     Thanks and keep them coming Mike – hell, just a comment within a comment … worth a post.

263. Dave Adams | October 14, 2010 at 2:53 pm |

     Yea, locking people up for their thoughts is not a real solution, and certainly not something people with insight into the mind would want.

     What is the solution to people who are dramatizing wildly?

     Dianetics, page……?

     🙂

264. Barney Rubble | October 14, 2010 at 2:54 pm |

     Incredible.

265. Vertley | October 14, 2010 at 2:57 pm |

     First, Very Well Done to Mike…and yes that was a Pass on your TR’s. Awsome display of confront of evil. Mucho Kudo’s mi amigo!

     Second, nobody seems to want to confront the elephant in the room. It gets danced around and generalized into the “church is dead” or “Scientology is dead” and a bunch of other non-specific statements about what is going on here.
     Below is a better and clearer statement of what you are looking at and also opens the door to all the correct PR and Administrative handlings that will be needed to be done.

     The Sea Organization: The current senior management group of the “church” lead by David Miscavige, is a rogue cult within Scientology. In every sense of the word and by any definition this group is a CULT. Public Scientologists and Staff Members not in the Sea Organization, are sort of “collateral damage” victims of the activities of this toxic cult group within Scientology and therefore exhibit cult symptoms even though they would argue vociferously to deny such. Vertley

266. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 2:59 pm |

     Michael,
     Extrapolating your success with the neighborhood kids, is it possible that this tape could be weaponized by nefarious interests in PsiOps type warfare circles? Perhaps, with the amplification you’ve envisioned, one of these vans could be taken to say, Gilman Hot Springs, and an induced catonia would make it possible to enter the premises and without otherwise disturbing the place, place, hmmmmm, let me think, ahh yes, jellybeans in sundry locations. Jellybeans to be discovered by persons here, there and everywhere, SAVE DM’s ‘copper handle-destim-discharge’ room and other personal offices.

     He would hear about the jellybeans, but not actually FIND a jellybean himself. This would serve to confirm his assertions he is truly an Only One.

     Personally, having had my cat seize on mere seconds of play, I’m reticent to use it as the Halloween Treat you’ve brought up, since I’m livin’ pretty much in the country and we’ve deer, partridge, coyote, bobcat, fox, squirrel, chipmunk, racoon, groundhog, and skunk et al, that may end up deaded and stanky causing all sorts of uproar, and possibly a visit from the Mounties (sans mount of course as they fall into the above ‘et al’) to me residence.

     I agree with you, there is much to be made of this cacophony.

     Jim
     P.S. I’m tracking right along with you on the studies you mentioned in the earlier threads to this one. I was away so I couldn’t contribute. I’ll be away again until the end of the flyfishing, which is Oct 31. We really MUST get in comm in email. Wiener 🙂

267. Don Jason | October 14, 2010 at 3:13 pm |

     I didn’t know that Jenny had been reposted as Chaplain! Her “heart felt” concern for Mike’s 2D was touching. Keep up the good work Jenny…. You are a “walking advertisement” of how things REALLY ARE in DMs version of religion.

     Let all C/sking , Mfers of faith NOW join hands in a “Jenny/DM led Prayer Session”. If any are not comfortable with our prayer- DON’T WORRY – we are a tolerant group that loves and will pray for you anyway….. Here is our prayer to you – FUCK OFF!!

268. LO | October 14, 2010 at 3:13 pm |

     Beautiful !!!

269. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 3:17 pm |

     metaqual,
     You and I are former colleagues. As you’ve mentioned before on this blog, there appears a ‘natural tendency’ to hats among us girls. I, like you, was a Qual terminal, and loved it. I still have the hat. Now it’s as Minister of Qual, MOQ.

     I have gone exterior with full perception as a direct result of Scientology processing.

     I know, without any reservation, real Scientology can and is being rehabilitated. DM, bless his li’l clinker, is an interesting ripple in the continuum.

     By the by, me Ma was Black Irish. I realize this isn’t necessarily settled as to derivation, but I’ve embraced the more romantic interpretation that it is because of the Moor and the spread to Iberia and then Erin, all the way up to Scotland. Interesting parallels in music (West African 6/8) permeate Spanish, Irish and Scottish music. Since DM is apparently very much into the Illuminati conspiracy theories (the gene pool ones as part of them) it may be he and a few are the only true ‘white guys’ on this here planet. A Soul Vaccination (from the Tower of Power) would in his case, be ineffective, as he be the source of honkypox.

270. An anon | October 14, 2010 at 3:18 pm |

     Byron,

     There is not such an organised effort, so I expect not. If you look at visits to scientology.org by country, you’ll see it’s mostly Spain, Italy, UK and US at the moment. During the big PR campaign in the beginning of the year, 60% of all visits came from
     .
     .
     .
     .
     India!

     (and yes, there´s companies for that).

271. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 3:22 pm |

     veritas,
     I played a gig with Amy Sky a few years back and performed her Phenomenal Women, a poem by Maya Angelou, put to music. I think you’d like the tune. I think you are one such woman.

272. mrinder | October 14, 2010 at 3:33 pm |

     Interesting — probably doesnt cost too much to get a bunch of people there to log on. Easier than chasing around to try and pay people to do so in EU or the US.

273. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 3:36 pm |

     Vertley,
     I ‘was’ in the Sea Org. Frankly speaking, I am still. I’ve noticed that rather than wear the hat of the Senior CS, three feet behind society’s head and directing the auditors, also three feet behind society’s head (see the recent Phil Spickler videos put out) that it has become quite something else.

     Consider this. The Senior CS is part of Qual. Qual, in common with HCO, is positioned on the org board as ‘above’ the remainder of the seven divs. It is ‘three feet behind’ the org. DM is neither HCO (ethics, establishment) nor Qual but a pretended Dept 21 -Source. On his org board, there is no HCO save punishment drive ‘ethics’ and absolutley NO Qual.

     A re-org, streamline is in order for ‘Upper Management’. Too many chiefs methinks. However, the essential hats the SO brought to the game are still valid and include such things as the Eval Corps, Mission Tech, Multiple Viewpoint System etc.

274. Magnolia | October 14, 2010 at 3:40 pm |

     MQ, we’d sure love to hear more of your history in the church. Not sure why this blows so much charge…maybe its just putting more illumination on what was happening all those years ago. I was at CC when Yvonne was around, and, like everyone else, loved her tremendously. Things certainly changed when she was gone. As a public, things certainly did filter down. We’d call them “pendulum swings.” Staff would be extremely stressed out or sometimes only slightly less stressed. But there was a point–mid 80s where it was always just stress and only seemed to intensify from that point on…to the point where my husband and I decided we would never step foot at Flag or on the Ship again until something massive happened to change things. Honestly, right now I’m not holding my breath on that one. But it’s still good to hear stories from you guys. Please tell us more..

275. John Peeler | October 14, 2010 at 3:45 pm |

     As a declared SP, Mike Rinder has become Fair Game to the CoS (although using the term “Fair Game” was canceled, the handling of an SP was not). The fact that these people think they have the right to just walk up to someone on the street and harass them like they did Mike speaks loudly of brainwashing and is obvious Cult behavior. This is not normal behavior. Gang/Mafia mentality to say the least.

     By the way, BTs2Free was also exposing abuses at the Int Base, including having been an eyewitness to DM’s beatings since 2000. Other things exposed were the INCOMM Int computerized Data Base containing not only all pertinent Ethics File information on individuals, but PC folder data, and all contact and connection information so that at the press of a few keys, DM and other personnel would have your “tasty” crimes instantly to use against you. This system was set up at Int and I believe made it down to middle management levels. Was supposed to be exported and put in worldwide so that public Scn information would also be input and available. Not sure if it made it that far. I was on the RTC Mission to input all Int base crew. Talk about priest-penitent privileged.

276. Bozz | October 14, 2010 at 3:48 pm |

     No, no, no, no. There’s never going to be a “tech dictionary.”
     Haven’t you heard? The new basics have glossaries that are so good, you don’t NEED a dictionary!

     Silly goose! 😉

     On second thought, it would be another book that “NO Scientologist can do without. So… Buy the book TODAY!” You know, to carry with you in the car while you listen to the tapes and cd’s while driving. You know… “standard tech.”

277. ΘTater/GaryLerner | October 14, 2010 at 3:55 pm |

     Centurion,

     I would flunk the bullbait instantly! 😉 HAHAHAHAHA!!!

     “Q. Do birds fly? “A. Fuck you.”

     BWAHAHAHAHAA

     Gary (still laughing~!)

     P.S. Funny that pre-DM-GAT, TR-Bullbait was to be done as if you were in session. “Do birds fly?”. “Nope”. and so on… But now in DM’s version of TR’s I do believe your “Mike” version would be needed for anyone in Co$.

     Mike, Not only are you an OUTSTANDING OT but also a TR’s innovator! 🙂

278. Just a Reader | October 14, 2010 at 3:56 pm |

     I love this, Watching Eyes. Troll ‘lashing’. 🙂

279. Anonymous | October 14, 2010 at 3:58 pm |

     Who would have thought that Cathy Rinder has such a foul mouth.

     DM broke his arm a few years ago? Pulled it in but nobody had the courage to tell him: You pulled it in!?

280. OnceUponaTime | October 14, 2010 at 3:59 pm |

     Jim,
     Dude. Numbnuts. Idiot. Inducing catatonia at GH would be a steep jump UP the awareness characteristics. Them blokes am operating down below catatonia. Down, down, down: catatonia is at -17.

     Let’s see if we recognize any of the lower awareness characteristics manifest in DM and the Dreamers. Oblivion, detachment, duality, secrecy, hallucination, sadism, masochism, elation, glee, fixidity, erosion, dispersal, disassociation, criminality–let me repeat that one, CRIMINALITY, uncausing, disconnection, unexistence.

     Though strategically placed jelly beans would be a humorous mindfuck, let me try this one out on you: after using the weaponized version to raise the awareness level to catatonia, we walk in and unmock the entire base, replacing every single molecule with a nearly exact duplicate. We’ll lay in some command value that the king is really the queen he’s always wanted to be but has been too timid to admit–his frustrations being dramatized on others–and we replace his/her closet with splendid gowns and sparkling tiaras. My, my, how lovely, your highness.
     “Let them eat cake you cocksucking, motherfucking, %#$$#@#$&&%!”
     My, my.
     Then we climb up to the eagle’s nest with adequate refreshments, a video camera with a long telephoto lens, and settle in to record the entertainment. We turn off the Weaponized Catatonia Inflictor ™ and spend a couple of days laughing ourselves silly.
     Oh, wait. We’re already silly.
     Fuck it.
     We’ll spend a couple of days laughing ourselves silly.
     Then, to add to the excitement, we’ll pipe in Queen’s “Bohemian Rhapsody” so her highness can start to have a good chuckle over pleasure memories. But….
     But…
     At that moment, we as-is the entire place–since we mocked it up–leaving everyone suspended in native state. Holy Crap! What in the hell? Boy, would native state be a shock.
     But, too much ARC would ruin their havingness, so we’d have to quickly mock up the base again. No sense in being too cruel.

     As for halloween treats, I’ve always thought scoops of ice cream would be memorable–but, hey, why ruin the kid’s fun? I just pass out candy bars. The wife prefers the cheapest stuff she can get her hands on to pass out, but, I’m too insecure for that. What would happen to my status in the eyes of those little darlings? I’ve just got to create an effect. I remember being thrilled when someone actually dished out an actual candy bar instead of those cheap mini-pretenders. We were so poor that a real candy bar symbolized unimaginable wealth. Talk about soaring up the altitude scale in a young punk’s mind! A couple of years ago, we passed out 16oz Hershey bars. Now that was an effect!

     Michael

     ps: regarding your ps. Agreed. Glad you were tracking that stuff. It’s not information that’s going to make much sense with a casual read. Lot of experiences having to do with the pre-PDC material through effort processing and OP PRO by Dup. Q’s, axioms, logics, prelogics. I’ll have to set up a hushmail account again. Or we have a mutual friend who might give you my open email. I don’t care who listens in on my conversations. Might bring them up tone. I’ll drop a hushmail address on you today or tomorrow. But I’ve got to get back to some really fun projects.

281. Heather G | October 14, 2010 at 4:06 pm |

     Alan, thanks. I respect your willingness to confront that uncomfortable reality, and that you’ve worked on changing how you behave. One of the things I really respect about my dad is that, at age 70, he’s still open to learning and growing and changing. It’s a great way to be.

282. Publius | October 14, 2010 at 4:06 pm |

     DM’s Playbook: “Implanting for Dummies” – PRICELESS!

     Someone needs to collect & archive a “Best Of” posts & quotes & videos on this blog, for there are many. They are a vital part of the history that is being made daily here.

283. DisagreeToo | October 14, 2010 at 4:13 pm |

     The wacko seven, what a lunatic bunch!

     A scary testimony to what black dianetics is all about.

     Mike, utterly amazing to see how well you handle a crafted type III group, even with the BBC in the other end!

     Guess Tarantino and Rodriguez will be calling the wackos to appear in the next zombie movie, with DM as assistant director.

284. Heather G | October 14, 2010 at 4:15 pm |

     My Dad is a pastor. He has had to get used to me saying “crap” in front of him. That’s as bad as it gets. The prospect of any church leader I know speaking like these people is simply not something I can imagine.

285. Anonymous | October 14, 2010 at 4:17 pm |

     How did DM break his arm?

286. Just a Reader | October 14, 2010 at 4:25 pm |

     Like Saddam Hussein’s son, the one who beat the feet of the soccer player(s) he felt ‘lost’ the game, crippling them from ever playing well again. He also, for fun, beat the feet of a little girl, crippling her for life.

287. Mary Lee | October 14, 2010 at 4:35 pm |

     They sound completely reactive, and it’s sick the ‘church’ would use your own family against you. They have done this to so many. good for you Mike, staying calm.

288. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 4:38 pm |

     M,
     OK on the mutual friend and in any case, contact.

     “But, too much ARC would ruin their havingness, so we’d have to quickly mock up the base again. No sense in being too cruel.”

     Agreed, no sense to that level of mean. Then again…mmmuuuuaaaahhhhaaa ( an interludinous evil chuckle to the ‘laughing our asses off’. Oh yeah, we’ll need Jackson on the Eagle’s Nest. He knows where the beer be hid up there and how to keep the rattlesnakes out. Duh! And you being such a smarty pants!

289. Just Me | October 14, 2010 at 4:43 pm |

     Good Gawd A’mighty! John, I’ve not heard about this before — the Co$’s digitizing of confidential pc folder information to make it available to those who would use it for blackmail and other evil purposes. Thank you for sharing this info.

     Just Me

290. Tony DePhillips | October 14, 2010 at 4:47 pm |

     Fahrenheit 8-8008. I like it!

291. Just Me | October 14, 2010 at 4:49 pm |

     Jeez Louise, Logan, email Michael already! I’ll send the address to you again. I can’t imagine the cacophony that will ensue when you two finally get together.

292. Tony DePhillips | October 14, 2010 at 4:50 pm |

     Hi Bruce,
     Good to hear from you. I was starting to worry about you. I thought you might of been kidnapped. 🙂

293. Tony DePhillips | October 14, 2010 at 4:54 pm |

     Hey Don Jason!
     Good to hear from you. Would love to hear some of your stories here!!
     🙂
     Tony

294. Margaret | October 14, 2010 at 5:01 pm |

     Reality must be setting in for Miscavige that his cover has been fully blown and his attempts at intimidation and silencing no longer work.

     Miscavige, your gig is up. Even your staff … underneath their robotic, cowed and ill appearances … recognize your lunacy. Dozens of them, having shed your suppression … including two of your top lieutenants … have now blown the whistle on your violent and insane behavior.

     And the world and its media are watching and speaking up. As are Scientologists. You are fooling no one.

     No one trusts you. No one believes you.

     You are the Emperor with no clothes. An embarassment.

     I’ll bet even Tom Cruise now sees through your charade. And your former “Hollywood stronghold” is now crumbling in disgust as the real David Miscavige is being exposed as the incompetent, insignificant liar and has-been that he is.

295. FOS | October 14, 2010 at 5:05 pm |

     Squirrel Scientology Police = All about STOP!

296. 2ndxmr | October 14, 2010 at 5:14 pm |

     Good point, Tara. Perhaps we could elevate him to be a Man of Letters: David Miscavige, YCSPOS.

297. Lawrence | October 14, 2010 at 5:18 pm |

     Matt:

     This is NOT surprising news to hear at all.

     David Miscavige has no high school diploma even with which to walk out of the church and get a job delivering pizzas for Domino’s {because companies today can and do check people’s credentials for authenticity}.

     David Miscavige may retire with money laundered from parishioner’s donations instead of earning his retirement in an honest way.

     He is the kind of person many people resent.

     L. Ron Hubbard has said that when an executive fails in his duties the entire oranization beneath that executive will crumble.

     Scientology statistics today and the character of the people who compose it are a perfect example of “Follow The Leader To Oblivion”.

298. Lawrence | October 14, 2010 at 5:32 pm |

     Geoff:

     It goes without saying that the reason for people’s concern over this event is not how many times who used an ignorant term or why in comparison to who…

     …but more along the lines of what communication was actually allowed to pass in the process resulting in an understanding that caused the greatest good for the greatest number to come about!

     Mike Rinder’s response was typical of anyone acting on their own to defend themselves {in a parking lot no less} from a group of deranged Sea Org personnel afraid of having to move their bowels in a makeshift latrine if their mission was not accomplished. That is their problem and not any reason to DELIBERATELY and in a THREATENING manner PROVOKE someone to respond the only way they know how.

     They are the aggressor. They started it. Not Mike Rinder. Them. If it were you that this had happened to would you reprimand yourself for telling a menacing person to no more than “Piss Off”?

     That was not their goal. That was not their intention. It is that way in the make believe world of Scientology. Because, even after this alleged response from Mike Rinder that you say is comparable to the character of the Scientologists there, DID the Scientologists there stop their harassment at once if their only goal was to push a button on Mike and get him to say or do something irresponsible to add to their “alleged case” against him?

     No, they didn’t. That comes under the heading of “Illegal Activity”.

299. Sinar | October 14, 2010 at 5:36 pm |

     Mike, Thanks for filling in the blanks, it sure brings up more contrary info and perspective of the big meltdown.

300. Raindog | October 14, 2010 at 5:40 pm |

     My point exactly. They don’t know and can’t apply technical data otherwise they would not behave that way or follow a madman. I think we are on the talking the same ideas here, lunamoth, I am just pointing out (again) in a different way that the church has completely lost it’s way. And for anyone not believing it to be true, that person could easily listen to this and discern that these execs are not Scientologists per the definition in the tech dictionary (paraphrased here) that a Scientologist is one who uses the technology to improve their lives and and the lives of others.

301. Sinar | October 14, 2010 at 5:41 pm |

     Great to see you back, MOQ!

302. Grasshopper | October 14, 2010 at 5:55 pm |

     No kidding. What a sweetheart!

     I remember the days of the “RPF’s RPF” but “the hole” just cuts to the chase, doesn’t it?

     Mr. David Miscavige is just asking to be taken down, isn’t he? Somewhere down deep down in his thetan, he is crying out “stop me please!” Well, I am willing to oblige.

303. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 6:02 pm |

     OK. You are bullbaiting him.

304. KB | October 14, 2010 at 6:17 pm |

     Jim – thank you for this. Yes, I should indeed have spelt it out more clearly – by Co$, I was referring to DM and his cluster, rather than the many individual members who are removed from all this, not aware of it, or do not see it.

     The people in the sound recording are running dirty needle drills, and what I had in mind when writing that was this:

     LRH said in 1952 on the PDC’s (lecture 20):

     “It’s a very simple remedy. And that’s just make sure that the remedy is passed along. That’s all. Don’t hoard it. Don’t hold it. And if you ever do use any Black Dianetics, use it on the guy who pulled Scientology out of sight and made it so it wasn’t available. Because he’s the boy who would be electing himself “‘the new order'”. We don’t need any more new orders ….” (pg. 49/50)

     (This, of course, has been purged from the GAK Basics version, unsurprisingly).

     The people in this op were running dirty needle drills on someone who they know has been a Scientologist for YEARS – if they thought about that for a minute, did they really think dirty needle drills would work on someone who knows the remedy? Hence, my deduction that they cannot believe in Scientology and the workability of auditing (the remedy). That is where I was coming from.

     But you are right, they are robotically doing as they are told, they did not consider it, or think about it. From that, I deduced that since they were not appying Scientology, they did not believe in it. If they did believe in it, and appiied it, they would not have accepted the order to behave like that.

     And you are also spot on, nail on the head with DM’s creation “of a problem of certainties” – I am not tech trained, but I think that would be called the creation of a GPM.

     Thank you for your comment, appreciated.

305. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 6:22 pm |

     This is a very interesting date coincidence and thanks for pointing it out. Ewen Cameron was the first cousin, once removed, of Duncan Cameron, the psychic used in the Montauk time experiments. When I met Marjorie Cameron, the wife of Jack Parsons, and Geo Cameron, a Celtic Shaman, I could not help but notice how they both had the streaking red and blonde hair that was similar to LRH. I believe they were all related genetically and that the macrocosmic war in the heavens can be seen in the microcosmic war of the Camerons, sort of an internal family feud. I hope to explore this theme in future postings but am doing it on a gradient. The salient truth in these connections give rise to incredible sci-fi like story line potentials. DM comes out looking like one of the “Boys from Brazil”. You know, Josef Mengele experimented with “dwarves” and made their eyes blue.

306. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 6:31 pm |

     Don, you got me laughing. Don’t be a stranger.

307. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 6:55 pm |

     You can write to me at metaqual@hushmail.com

308. Thought Provoking | October 14, 2010 at 7:03 pm |

     HA HA HA !!!!!

309. WindWalker | October 14, 2010 at 7:04 pm |

     Lunamoth

     That is how I see it too.

     It is one of the results of being the effect of an SP. Moving into the SPs valence. (PTS) It will likely end after being out of the reach of the SP for a while.

     I wish them luck, and may it happen SOON.

     WW

310. metaqual | October 14, 2010 at 7:06 pm |

     I am learning in these postings that they conform to a natural sequence. In the midst of posting certain history, it will be fascinating to see what Mike, Marty and others come up with and how it all interpolates.
     Blowing charge IS the process. It means the process is working. On the ExScn message board the TA is almost always rising and going more solid. This board got a lot of TA when Mike left and started contributing. ExScn board got TA too when Mike left. Everyone was excited and commenting. If we tackle this on a pure AUDITING basis and not an environmental basis, we need to go earlier similar. Actually, I think the earlier similar goes hand in hand with the environmental menace (meaning DM).

311. Lawrence | October 14, 2010 at 7:22 pm |

     Mr. Rinder, this would be an out of this world, not out of this body experience for anyone.

     I am actually apalled that anyone would respond to you in this way, as for many years you were well known and respected on television and in the media as the moral spokesperson for the church. You were and still are a celebrity of sorts. Not even David Miscavige has been on television as much as you and HE has hundreds of thousand dollar suits and hundred dollar shoes to wear to such occasions! {LOL}

     I used to live in Clearwater and used to work across the street from the Fort Harrison for 3 years. I KNOW what it feels like to be “OUT” of Scientology and be represented to people in the area by the church as “someone that is not welcome in the area”. Before you even get a chance to meet the people, mainly your neighbors. Never mind to carry on this way with you at your 2D’s doctor’s office. It is a terrible thing, terrible. You could have been hurt even.

     Which is why these marauding Scientologists need to know they are being taken seriously and on their word like everybody else and if they do one thing wrong, they are going to get the same treatment anybody else would.

     Bravo. I hope Christie gets better so you don’t have to go to that doctor anymore! {LOL}

312. Jim Logan | October 14, 2010 at 7:33 pm |

     KB,
     With your insight, and intelligent observation ability as witnessed here today, you will LOVE a full training in the subject. Please, from one being to another, get on to this as soon as feasible, or sooner. Your kind of ability enhanced by KRC is exciting as hell to me.

     Jim

313. splog | October 14, 2010 at 7:42 pm |

     Thanks Heather,

     Also, I’ve got people around who won’t back off from calling me out when I talk like a jerk.

314. Don Jason | October 14, 2010 at 8:03 pm |

     Hi Tony,

     Good to hear from you too. Maybe I’m just to far removed from it all, but from my perspective most anything I could offer has already been said, (by myself or others) re-runs really. Maybe I’m wrong

315. Tatiana Baklanova | October 14, 2010 at 8:10 pm |

     Jim, very good question, right on spot! That is a question of the assumption of a viewpoint (and since we are talking bingness, we are in the realm of lower conditions – confusion, treason, enemy or doubt).

     Culture with it’s Justice already exists in the society around us. Why to create another one within Scientology structure? It’s a trying to sit on two chairs with one bat – ending up very likely on the floor.

     We are ether New Civilization of Auditors, Clears and OTs and operate by Ethics, or we are not – and then we can talk justice. There is no such thing as Scientology justice, it is ether one or another. Ethics can and will merge with auditing and it technics, but do not let it slide into the justice action! Do not try to marry Ethics and Justice – Ethics is reasoning based on self- and then pan-determinism and justice sits right below lowest ethics condition, where other-determinism takes place, where there are robots and control enforcement, where robots are been told what is right and what is wrong.

     I see justice as a 3 Dynamic Reactive Mind. Ethics is based on reason, and justice – on reaction. There is a great collection (Reactive Bank) of 3D engrams – past painful experiences of the society, on which the justice rests. Justice reaction is based on past painful experiences. Does it ring the bell?

     Introducing justice into Scientology organization was suicidal. It was inviting and letting the deadly virus in. It was MIXING PRACTICES, that’s it! We should really get rid of this reactive thinking to keep scientology working. Trying to use both – Ethics and Justice – creates confusion and leads to double standard. You are OT – self determine and highly ethical and ooops, I am going to tell you how to behave, whether to listen to the media or not, whether to buy books or… (sorry, there is no “not” option with buying books!) – endless list. Look at the church – to the society it puts up a face of religion, and it’s participants it treats as a busyness. But as I said before, it ended up BETWEEN the chairs. There is no other business in America that treats it’s employees as horrible as church does. And there is no other religion that has a price sticker on each and every service it enforces. Or, wait a second, some times it does not even care to offer a service, just demand you to give up your money, your family members, your life, your choice, your rights to know and to speak…

     We have to get rid of this reactive thinking.
     We can not be “a little OT” or an “almost Clear” or a “kind of an Auditor”, like a woman can not be “a little pregnant”! It is ether here or there. Ether justice and life in the regular society, or OT groups that is based on ethics.

     If somebody in the “outer” world lives by ethics – he is one of us, is he aware of that or not. If somebody withing a scientology group (church or a free zone) needs a justice or enforces a justice – he fells out of the group boundary into the liability (needs a justice) or treason and enemy (enforces justice) or confusion (does not understand or give a shit of what I am talking about).

     I am afraid Ron got slide into a doubt and instead of raising everybody up to auditors, Clears and OTs (at least within the church), he went into agreement with enemy valence invalidating “broken hey” ability to live by ethics and opened a door to other practice – justice.

316. martyrathbun09 | October 14, 2010 at 8:12 pm |

     Anarchy has failed everywhere it has been experimented.

317. Don Jason | October 14, 2010 at 8:26 pm |

     Hey Marty,

     I realize there are bigger issues here – I get that – but there is a part of this that is so outrageous that it is almost comical.

     How can Jenny,DM, Tommy etc speak about spirtual awareness, religious enlightenment, “mans only hope” with any credibility while spewing vicious hatred everytime they open their mouth? It is like a fat guy trying to sell diet pills!! No one will buy it because their ACTIONS betray their “brand”. How can they not see that?

     I think we should submit the audio to Cris Berman’s “NFL Countdown” show. He (Cris Berman) has a segment called “Come on, man!!” where they highlight all the stupid (what were you thinking)football mistakes that were mabe over the weekend. At the end of each video clip, they say “Come on, man…” It is a light hearted and funny.

     Jenny, DM, Cathy R…………. Come on, man!

318. Tatiana Baklanova | October 14, 2010 at 8:50 pm |

     Marty, Ethics is not anarchy at all.

319. Karen#1 | October 14, 2010 at 8:52 pm |

     Dear John Peeler,

     You are absolutely right, you were leaking this stuff back in 2000. I believe Internet audiences have 1000x in readership since then, that’s why I encourage you to tell what you fell you have already told. Int Base horror stories, Kerstin pursuit in cars, getting fired from your job, forcing your wife to divorce you, all these things must be broadcast loud and clear so that the world sees, what DM is doing, how they get away with it.

     A 501C3 with NO ACCOUNTING, not a single donation is accountable, not a single expense is accountable, no one ever looks at their books and the reptilian predator controls the $$$$$$$$$$

     Hence they can use UNLIMITED funds for Private Investigators, Lawyers and other thuggery that DM indulges in.

     Yes John, I acknowledge you for being a very early whistleblower especially on INT Base stories.

320. Tatiana Baklanova | October 14, 2010 at 9:06 pm |

     I guess, anarchy would be a lower harmonic of ethics. It will be a freedom with low or no awareness and with low or no responsibility, when Ethics is a freedom to with high awareness at the high responsibility level.
     And justice is in between – with restricted and majored by others freedom, with some awareness and responsibility as a blame.

321. Erwin Croughs | October 14, 2010 at 9:34 pm |

     Thanks Mike for the explanation. Seeing the one month after picture I still think additional equipment would have to have been used. You definitely made an impact getting Davey to send his top seniors after you. Great courage, cool and persistence!

322. Loki | October 14, 2010 at 10:12 pm |

     Vertley, I agree with you. Scientology was expanding fine before the SO.
     I would like to see local scientology practitioners multiply, and any organizations connected to them also be local. And just be local.
     I would sell off all the fancy expensive MEST and set up an LRH and/or scientology charitable trust which has to disperse all of its annual growth and returns on investment to charities designed to empower people, deal with human crisis, and expound truth.
     That might balance the books, so to speak, given the black eye scientology has gotten and allow local scientologists to operate in a safer and more receptive envirorment.
     All upper managment can go. They can learn to be auditors or business consultants. Put all the works in the public domain and let folks who want to use the material get on with it. The current scene calls for a massive change, in my opinion. The published works and the practitioners can stand and expand on their own. If it can’t or they won’t, then the material cannot be what we think it is. I think it will do just fine in an unmanaged, unregulated free market. Recall that quote; “the work was free, keep it so”. Somewhere along the line this all became about money and control as much as anything else. When the church implodes, I hope those who have the opportunity do more than cancell a few policies and give the staff a raise. There needs to be a massive change in the operating basis.

323. Tatiana Baklanova | October 14, 2010 at 10:44 pm |

     I didn’t answer about justice and overt/motivator sequence.
     I think justice fits right into that sequence, perpetuating it by reacting on that what it labels “wrong” and pushing a being down tone scale into the less awareness and less responsibility. The robots are made by justice. That is a mutual reactive mind of society in action. Justice is evaluation for person on a subject of right and wrong, good and bad. It can help only when person is incapable of evaluating for himself at all. How bad should be that? Too low for scientology.

     Ethics is not a reaction, but reasoning based on logic, on willingness to improve the conditions (responsibility and awareness in it). Ethics is an activity of a thetan himself. So ethics fits right into scientology and its purpose of improving conditions.

     And thank you so much for asking questions, Jim!

324. DW Stokes | October 14, 2010 at 11:38 pm |

     Forgive me if I’m repeating anything… didn’t have time to read all 300+ comments.

     The mass assault is merely an “intervention” – A common tactic used to attempt to overwhelm and redirect a family member on drugs or perhaps someone held in thrall to a mind-control cult of some sort (wink-wink). The language certainly isn’t specific just to Miscavige’s reign. They sound pretty much like staff I worked with or dealt with from the 60’s through the 80’s. Or even like one of my ex-wives trying to extract a few extra dollars from me during a bitter divorce.

     Certainly the exchange doesn’t cast the actions of CofS management in a positive light and the fact it was being recorded is hilarious. But it’s still common enough language. Hell, I had to constantly “school” my Mission staff and remind them that while it was okay (and even fun) to cuss like a drunken sailor in private staff meetings or when out of public earshot… we at least ought to act professional when asking them for money or teaching them effective communication.

     My last contact with Miscavige was at that San Francisco meeting in 1982 and he sounded pretty much like the team that Rinder ran into. Yeah, he’s a foul-mouthed little cocksucker… that’s for sure.

     http://blog.ensifer.com/

325. WindWalker | October 15, 2010 at 1:14 am |

     I just reread that from a different point of view and consider it might well do with a little clarification for those not familiar with the terms.

     The new version:

     It is one of the results of being the effect of an SP.
     Suppressive Person: a person with certain behavior characteristics and who suppresses other people in his vicinity and those other people become PTS or Potential Trouble Sources.

     Suppression: suppression is “a harmful intention or action against which one cannot fight back.”

     PTS, Potential Trouble Source: Someone who is connected with an SP who is invalidating him, his beingness, his processing, his life.

     A PTS person has, to some degree moved into the valence (persona) of the Suppressor.

     If one is PTS to someone and is unable to ” handle” (fix with communication and /or realizing the situation and becoming more “at cause” over the suppressor) then leaving the area or control of the SP may have beneficial results. Sometimes it takes time or counseling to relieve the suppressive influence over the person.

     There is an exact technology to handle the relationship and the effects caused by being connected to a suppressive person.

     Hope that is more clear.

     WW

326. Jim Logan | October 15, 2010 at 1:28 am |

     Tatiana,
     I’m afraid I’m with Marty on this. What you describe is essentially anarchy. It’s a pipe dream. Doesn’t work, and hasn’t, because it doesn’t.

     Look up AP&A and ‘justice’. Then look at your own view of the world and instances where you wanted ‘fair play’ and a settlement that was equitable to all concerned in terms of the Dynamic Principle of Existence – survive.

     Justice, redress, a means of fair play in interchange among diverse beings is a fact of life.

327. John Peeler | October 15, 2010 at 1:36 am |

     If anyone is interested, you can read my full write-up about this here:
     http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=426987#post426987

     Thanks!

328. Margaret | October 15, 2010 at 3:01 am |

     The folks handling the PR campaign probably have a builtin “guarantee to double your website traffic” as part of their multi-million dollar “campaign package”.

329. Tatiana Baklanova | October 15, 2010 at 3:12 am |

     I was not describing an anarchy.
     I can totally imaging the world with ethics and without justice in those truly ethical groups.
     I guess I am just a “good bunny” in your eyes.
     Wishing you the best,
     Tatiana.

330. Helmut Flasch | October 15, 2010 at 3:44 am |

     Great dialogue -really –
     I am manly with Tatiana. i think she is on to something.
     After all even Ron said that our ethics procedures (manly the justice part) is only a (apparently ) needed evil till we all are able to reason!

     Love,
     Helmut

331. Grasshopper | October 15, 2010 at 7:10 am |

     Well, two very different points of view on this one – Jim’s and Loki’s.

     My take is that the SO had its chance, and blew it. The SO can survive, but it won’t be the sole arbiter of what is and what is not Scientology. That ship has sailed.

     However, if the SO can set up actual orgs that deliver actual Standard Tech, and stop fooling around with Nazi dramos, then it will do good and survive.

332. Loki | October 15, 2010 at 2:24 pm |

     Grasshopper, in my opinion the SO can surely survive as a monastic body without control over scientology local opereations. WISE can survive, IAS can survive. Each of these can be networking organizations. They can be regional, national, international and intergalactic for all I care. But again, without control over local paractitioners or organizations. If, as Jim Logan points out, there are good managerial aspects of some of the SO functions, then localize them in a local executive sterring committe or something similar. The key is keeping authority or managment local. Beyond that , any organizations connected to the subject of scientology need to be benign,fraternal,networking,charitable,etc,etc.
     If LRH couldnt keep it under control and navigate a centralized operation, who are you going to trust going forward. The old man sank his own ship. That should be enough of a warning and prompt to decentralize it all in order to ensure its continuance.
     The constant push for expansion and stats and control and money and purity, etc has got us to where we are today, the edge of a cliff.
     Anyone can keep the romanticism and esprit de corps they enjoyed from being in the SO or other units in their heart. Have a reunion if you want. But for Gods sake lets learn from the mistakes that brought us all to this point.

333. Grasshopper | October 15, 2010 at 2:38 pm |

     Agreed – No Justice, No Peace, in the vernacular.

334. Grasshopper | October 15, 2010 at 3:53 pm |

     Hi John,

     I read the write-up, and of course this blog and others, regarding the use of PC folder material by the Mr. David Miscavige and his minions, both current and former.

     First of all, that is wrong, of course – and it would be wonderful to have screen-shots of this computer data available. This will prove, of course, that the minister/parishioner covenant does not exist in the CofM.

     Secondly, the fear of PC folder exposure and “life history” exposure, and ethics file exposure, etc., is understandable, but survivable. Everyone on this planet has peccadillos, and everyone knows it. How many public figures have had their intimate private details published in the NY Times? Clinton? Respected ex-President now. Gore? Respected ex-VP now and Environmental Crusader now. Marv Albert? Respected TV commentator. Peewee Herman? Back on the circuit. The list is long, very long.

     At the end of the day, no one really cares for longer than a week. “Oh he did? Really!” Then, it’s off to Lady Gaga. More likely though it is “That fucking CofS doing that to good people!”

     The scandal is not what is contained in your PC folders that might be made public. The scandal is that the “church” publishes this stuff in their propaganda rags and read this shit out to the other staff members to keep them in line.

     But, look, if Clinton can survive this stuff, anyone can.

     I personally would not care if my PC folders, my ethics folders and my life histories were published on the front page of the NY Times. When I come out, I expect this sort of thing, and I frankly do not care.

     The whole point of auditing and ethics, etc., is to address this crap and move on! So, if anything, the PC folder data shows that you were willing to confront it, and did. That is a good thing.

335. Grasshopper | October 15, 2010 at 4:08 pm |

     I was wondering what MOQ meant! I like it.

     I too went full exterior with perception back when I did Op Pro by Dup – freaked me out, in a good way. I will never forget it. The one thing that surprised me was that I perceived things very differently – it was a multi-dimensional, diamond-like experience, not like I expected, which was that it would be like my head just floated off the body into space, and I could then look around like I was still seeing through my eyes.

     Now, I tend to operated exterior a lot – took a while to get used to it. There is a lot to talk about about this…

     The “natural tendency to hats” – so true. I am a long, long time tech person. I gravitate toward tech – Scn Tech, engineering, software, mechanical, manufacturing and business operating processes. Very much people have preferences on the hats they want to wear.

336. Grasshopper | October 15, 2010 at 4:10 pm |

     Er, sorry for the grammar/typos!

337. Cat Daddy | October 15, 2010 at 5:17 pm |

     “Government urges councils to stop giving tax breaks to Scientology”
     http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/15/government-councils-tax-breaks-scientology

338. Janis | October 15, 2010 at 5:55 pm |

     Hi Metaqual – love your posts but wanted it known that Cathy Rinder did not do the eval that busted Yvonne from CC and moved her to create the PR Org. That was done by Harriet Foster who was getting information from the GO and direction from LRH. When Yvonne came to FLB after being busted and to get trained on PR (which she was already good at), it was Harriet Foster that Yvonne sat with to try and correct all the false reports with that the GO had been sending in on her. Harriet did nothing to rectify
     her false work as LRH had been very involved in the direction of the eval and its handling and knowingly allowed this injustice to occur. I consider this eval to have been the kiss of death to Yvonne.

339. KB | October 15, 2010 at 6:58 pm |

     Thank you, Jim. I received that communication as if you were in my home, right next to me! 🙂 Well received, and I can assure you that I am working on it.

340. Fidelio | October 16, 2010 at 9:40 am |

     Right on Grashopper, that’s exactly the reality.

     It is just the criminals’ very OWN horror to be exposed which makes them believe that anybody else would live in the same horror.

     Honestly, what can be more awful than that what already happened to TC for example?? Look at him now…
     Fidelio

341. OTDT | October 16, 2010 at 2:41 pm |

     Interesting. OK, earlier similar. In 1976, before DM had any influence in the church, I went to the Flag Land Base for executive training. It was still being called Universal Church or something like that. Many of the Flag execs I met were nasty and frazzled people. One in particular stands out, Jeff Walker. He was the top technical czar at the time, I believe he was holding Flag Sr. CS and possibly also Sr. CS Int. He was the nastiest, most vile, arrogant and enturbulative person I’d ever come across in any field, much less Scientology. He was rude, invalidative, loud, insulting and had a punishing evil twinkle in his eyes to match his razor blade tongue which he used with great relish to tear people to shreds. Yes, I understand he was supposedly very, very sharp on the Tech, but he was personally blind spiritually and stuck in a suppressive valence which there was no need for.

     So, this nasty, punishing-style approach to handling people existed in management before DM. It existed at Flag, at FOLO West US and at San Francisco org. It’s some kind of 3D spiritual disease that’s been with the church for a long, long time. I don’t have a clue where it came from, how it was allowed to germinate and propagate and continue in Scientology, but I know that it did.

     It appears to me that DM has exploited and perfected that cultural insanity for the purpose of his own extreme, total power and command, making previous nasty bastards seem like meek girl scouts in comparison, with plenty of acquiescence and agreement from others in the group.

     From what I’ve learned about the history and cultures of other religions and spiritual forces, this type of brutality, excessive force and maniacal control are common denominators among them. Islamic extremists cut heads off heretics and non-believers. Christians have burned people at the stake, tortured, humiliated and murdered millions. Hitler’s bizarre spiritual cult sought to cleanse the planet by murdering millions. Perverted priests thrive on the tacit agreement that allows them to continue their reign of sexual exploitation and terrorism. Nuns in catholic school in the twentieth century were typically nasty and brutal on their students.

     If we went whole track on this, we’d be opening the floodgates to an infinite amount of way more extreme and bizarre incidents, so we won’t even go there.

     DM seems to be another lock on this long line of harm in the name of religion which goes bad when its own tenants are allowed to be violated through counterfeit insouciance.

     That’s my observation and experience with this earlier similar.

342. John Peeler | October 16, 2010 at 3:14 pm |

     Grasshopper, Don’t downplay this. It’s not the fact that they can use your pc folder data against you and expose it. The Co$ can already do that and HAS done that. It’s already in writing, and in your files. A lot of it is even handwritten in YOUR own handwriting – O.W. write-ups.

     It’s being computerized as a means to CONTROL you. And I’m not talking about “good” control. Fact of the matter is that there were thousands and thousands of folders at the base to go through. And every single folder was gone through with a fine toothed comb. The trouble for David Miscavige to have to go through folder tanks and to go through stacks and stacks of folders to find out long forgotten “embarrassing” or “scandalous” information on someone was handled, and instant access to your personal shit was made available instantly.

     From my own memory, I can remember a lot of shit about certain execs at the base that I read and entered into the data base that would make your freakin’ head spin. I was assigned all staff of ESI and 4 divisions of Gold to input. For example, I went through all of Diana’s and Guillame’s pc folders and ethics files starting from day one. I’m sure David Miscavige found having their entire history instantly available very useful. “Hey Diana, how would you like it if I told the entire base that you…”

     Seems like you don’t really think that’s a big deal Grasshopper, or you’re just not predicting consequences. If that’s the case, maybe you would have enjoyed living in East Germany under the Stasi. Most people find this shit very Big Brother like and alarming.

     Nope, no screen shots of the INCOMM Merc system which is an internal Co$ operating system. But, people like Marty (who had access and used this data base), Hiro Kimoto and other ex-Int base staff can vouch that my account about this is factual. Hiro was the Mission 2nd for the RTC Int Data Base Mission btw.

343. martyrathbun09 | October 16, 2010 at 3:19 pm |

     Yes, John. The Int Pers Ethics Data Base. The triumph – temporary, and destructive as all hell, of course – of BIG BROTHER.

344. Loki | October 16, 2010 at 3:48 pm |

     OTDT, you make some good points. It didnt start with DM. And it didnt start with Jeff Walker. It starts at the top and permeates the organization. The end justifies the means mentality. Upstats can do no wrong mentality. We would rather have you deas than incapable mentality. The whole SO mentality LRH put in place.
     There were and are plenty of nasty people who found the organization fertile ground for them to grow.
     I watched the Ken Urquhart interview recently and he said when LRH came back from NY he had changed. It was a different man that he couldnt recognize, or words to that effect. Was that the point in time? I dont know. Some of the other issues I mentioned predate that happening. But it all points to the man at the top. By commission or omission most of the mentality and practices we have today, good and bad, goes back to what LRH put in place, wrote or authorized.
     You can cut up the pie into as many peices as you want, but the largest slice of responsibility still belongs to LRH. You can’t get most of the credit without also getting most of the blame. But the situation will right itself in time. And whatever LRH can be blamed for will hopefully all be behind us.

345. Grasshopper | October 16, 2010 at 4:17 pm |

     Hey John, I am not trying to downplay this. Rather, what I am trying to do is to defuse it. The only way this can be used to control people is if people fear it. Would you rather we all cower in the corners because DM has some folder data he is planning to put on his fake blogs?

     The fact that the Church (and it is not just Mr. David Miscavige – he obviously has his accomplices – he cannot do this alone) does this is APPALLING. It is an incredible abuse of confidence, and an incredible abuse of power. It is a very big deal that this exists, and it needs to be taken down.

     The only way that can happen is if people expose it and stop fearing this demented person.

     By the way, I know this sounds specious coming from an anonymous account. In my case, it is not me I am protecting by staying relatively anonymous, but members of my family and friends. The time will come. And I’d like to think that OSA is spinning their wheels trying to figure me out – taking resources off of other tasks. I know I would be if I were them.

     By the way, you mention OW write-ups in your/my own handwriting. There is a culture of “admitting” OWs that either you did not do, or are not overts, which adds to the whole thing. Witness the apparent forced confessions of Leserve. This is Stasi and Stalin. That is another thing to keep in mind, and IS KNOWN by the public, and is actually in a weird, twisted way, a favor to the person. All the crap they publish, whether in your hand-writing or not, is suspect, and could very well be false – and for the horrendous stuff, probably is: “On Friday, Oct 15, at 10:05pm, I met this low-down degenerate in Hollywood Boulevard, and…”

     That’s my point John. People should not fear to speak out because of this. In fact, we all need to because it is so despicable and so evil.

346. Grasshopper | October 16, 2010 at 4:23 pm |

     Loki, I agree – and I have really been wondering what this will all end up being. As far as I am concerned, the new form of Scn is currently outside the CofM. Ironically, the members of that group will have to petition for reentry.

347. Grasshopper | October 16, 2010 at 4:53 pm |

     3D spiritual disease – Yep.

     Right – Mr. David Miscavige is the distillation of all that was wrong with the church and especially the SO. He grew up in the culture, and he became the culture.

     My little mission that I came from was a very nice place, with very nice people. Even then (pre 1976) there was a schism between the SO-types and the non-SO types. The ED of the mission was asked by LRH to join the SO when it was formed, and he declined. This schism culminated in the Mission holder’s conferences in the early ’80s.

     At Flag, I never interacted with Jeff Walker, but I had my run-in with the culture – CMO, mostly, and therefore Bitty Blythe and Marc Yeager, among others.

     It was an interesting culture, actually. Even at Flag, there seemed to be different slices of the culture. I remember meeting Yvonne Jentzch, and what a beautiful, lovely being. I met Diana as well – another lovely being. Actually, Henning Heldt and Duke Snider were great people as well, but they got carried away, in my opinion. They paid the price, unlike Mr. David Miscavige.

     The point is that the jerk culture that DM became part of and then became seemed to be at war with the nice person culture, back then. Too bad the nice people didn’t push back harder.

348. Vertley | October 16, 2010 at 7:14 pm |

     Grasshopper & Loki…if you are still following this thread…
     Please check out this “project”:
     http://www.freeheber.com/index.php?title=Break_the_Monopoly

     …and this “project”:
     http://www.freeheber.com/index.php?title=The_%22WHY%22_For_Scientology

     Any feedback or input would be appreciated. Contact info is at those locations.
     Vertley

349. John Peeler | October 17, 2010 at 12:42 am |

     Grasshopper, Not sure if this reply will show up in the right spot on the blog roll here, but I get where you’re coming from. Agreed!

350. Tatiana Baklanova | October 17, 2010 at 11:57 pm |

     Could you please support your statement with an example to illustrate it?
     How is it “No Justice, No Peace” true in a group of OTs that live by Ethics?

351. Grasshopper | October 18, 2010 at 6:06 am |

     How many examples would you like, Tatiana? In the non-Scn world, you have the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, the rise of Hitler (due to in large part the draconian Treaty of Versailles), the civil rights movement, and on and on.

     I agree that we should not confuse Ethics and Justice. They are not mutually exclusive, however.

     In a place where truly clear beings are floating in space with no game, justice is not necessary. But, when you have beings interacting with each other in any capacity, then there need to be agreed upon rules for this interaction. If there are agreed upon rules for interaction, then there is the chance – the large chance – that a rule will be broken, or, more likely, that there will be disagreement as to how to interpret the agreed-upon rules.

     Two people can be clear as the Caribbean and yet still have their own different interpretations of a rule. Each person is ethically clean – they feel that they are correct in their estimation of the rule, and their conscience is clear. Yet, they disagree on the rule. There needs to be an arbiter in these circumstances to help sort it out. And that is justice. It is quite necessary.

352. Tatiana Baklanova | October 19, 2010 at 2:33 pm |

     First of all none of examples from Non-Scientology world apply, as I talk particular about a group of OTs, scientologists.
     If an OT operates on Ethics, the greatest good for the greatest number of Dynamics, how is it that he would need others to determine for him what is right and what is wrong?
     The justice is necessary in the non-scientology world, but it is killing a scientology group. Justice is an example of other-determinism, which is quite contrary to the scientology purpose of making people self and pan determine.

353. Starman | October 21, 2010 at 5:33 am |

     This is absolutely disgusting. This is NOT what spirituality looks like.

354. Jessica Sideways | October 23, 2010 at 8:37 pm |

     Jesus fucking Christ… I listened to that and I just… wow.

     It reminds me of the time my parents tried to “convince” me (yeah, just as well as Rinder’s flash mob tried to convince him) to go back into “Ex-Gay” Therapy and try to stop my transition. Literally as much cursing although I wish I would have got it on tape. Fortunately, the police report allowed me to get a restraining order.

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