Radical Scientology’s Protection Racket

A protection racket is an extortion scheme whereby a criminal group or individual coerces other less powerful entities to pay money, allegedly for protection services against external threats (usually violence or property damage, and sometimes perpetrated by the racketeers themselves).

I cannot think of a better term to describe Miscavige’s standard operating procedure.  Inside, the apparent aim – like run of the mill organized crime – is money.  But, Miscavige’s operation is far more insidious than the mafia.  He also coerces blind, ignoratant loyalty.  And when one finally decides to stop playing the ponzi scheme mark, and exerts some outside independence,  his racket steps it up a few notches with the sole aim of extorting fear and consequent silence.

Recently, Miscavige mounted a full-scale offensive in my direction.  Anonymous emails have been sent to independents far and wide accusing me of all manner of lies, including auditing with an r/sing meter.  On that score, please see David St Lawrence’s post on his blog putting that lie to rest (http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=1363 ).  RS (Radical Scientology) has also sent the infamous Private Eye Lil’ Dave Lebow (aka Lebeau, aka Lubow) to a number of independent pre-Clears and pre-OTs whom I have audited and otherwise counseled.  

I have heard of a few guesses by friends as to why now.   One, I have recently been involved in assisting certain Independents with turning RS legal threats into legal offensives.  Another theory, this is in response to my recent start of  the full exposure of  the black ops techniques and  network of RS’s OSA.  Another, a number of OT’s and Opinion Leaders within Scientology fields have been announcing their independence on the blog over the past couple weeks. 

While it may be a combination of all the above, I think the following factor trumps them all.   We are really becoming quite proficient at rapidly and thoroughly reversing Miscavige’s Black Dianetics and Reverse Scientology techniques, and rehabilitating abilities once suppressed by RS.   This is particularly true and marked with OTs – OT VIIs and OT VIIIs.   This is a very scary development for Miscavige.  Holy cats!  Real, live OTs!

LRH describes the phenomena in HCOB OT Levels:

Pyschotics deal with doing people in. Their whole mission in life is destruction.

They inveigh against lower-level gains and seek to discredit them since these run contrary to their aberrated purpose. 

But when it gets to Clears and OT levels, psychos go berserk!

They are, it happens, terrified of punishment for their own crimes.

The thought of someone being sensible or powerful enough to punish them (the way they would do) is more than they can stand.

You can, with the utmost certainty, identify a criminal psychotic by the way he vilifies or degrades or seeks to stop Clears and OTs from coming into existence.

Hence, the protection racket on steroids.  They are attempting to enturbulate through intimidation.  They are not achieving their aim in the slightest with a single one of my friends.  But, after what has occurred over the last two weeks I feel compelled to comment on an important aspect of all this. I think it might help those who might get contacted directly or indirectly put things into context.

First some background to demonstrate I am not just talking theoretically when I use terms like “protection racket” and “organized crime.”

From 1982 through 1986 I was engaged in an investigation into the attempted looting of LRH’s personal bank account via counterfeit checks. The investigation lead into organized crime in the New England area. I dealt directly and at odds with several veteran organized crime figures.  I ultimately testified in the trial that resulted in the extortion conviction of the “financial wizard” of New England’s organized crime syndicate in a related case.

Two years ago I dealt with organized crime on the street level. Through a forty-plus article investigative series I assisted local law enforcement in driving adjuncts of the Mexican Mafia out the county in which I live.   

In both investigations my life was threatened by organized crime figures.  I know how organized crime outfits create and profit off terror.  I also know the tiny clinkers their leaders call their souls and what despicable cowards they are outside the pack.

They operate on an instinctive, beast pack-mentality  level.  You may have heard the adage about how an aggressive dog can sense fear, and sensing it becomes far more aggressive.   It is precisely the same mechanism at play with organized criminals.  Run or cower and they’ll have you hiding in your house and paying protection fees in no time.  Stand up and see them for what they are, and they’ll scatter like cockroaches when the light is switched on.

Now, here are three facts that lead me to conclude David Miscavige has become nothing more than a organized crime boss wanna be. 

You heard this week from Lori Hodgson.  I’ve been informed that the Allender character that creepily assaulted her and sleazily inferred beatings were in the offing, is an OT VIII in good standing with Miscavige.  Remember, Allender cased the place, hid out surveilling and ambushed Lori.  To pull that stunt on a woman who survived the treatment they gave her is pure cowardice and moral depravity.  It is what RS expects of an “OT VIII” (which incidentally, is no small part of the Black Dianetics and Reverse Scientology that is practiced at the “top of” the RS bridge).

Two weeks ago when I was on the west coast,  like clockwork, Miscavige’s OSA sent an operative to visit Mosey (after a hard day’s work) at our home.   As per usual he was a creep, with a creepy beingness, a creepy smirk, and a creepy sort of message.  Every time I am gone, Miscavige sends such an emissary.  Of course Mosey, as per usual,handled the operative much like Lori did with Allender in San Jose, well, much like a cockroach.  But please note, they always come when I am away.  Never has one of his boys come near my place when I am home.

Then this past week Luis Garcia visited Casablanca.  Right about the time we started shinin’ like Lazlo and Rick, Luis receives a call from his wonderful wife Rocio that one Lil’ Dave Lebow came calling at his home, nearly 2,000 miles away.   Rocio gave him the cockroach treatment, making it crystal clear she did not wish for him to return.  For the next 24 hours she was overtly surveilled by Miscavige’s creeps, and the next night (with Luis still 2000 miles away) the Lil’ depraved one returned.

Now, consider this.  Sudden Sam Domingo and Mosey both witnessed a few minute phone call I had with Lebow several months ago.  I told him to tell his namesake employer to take a look at this unseemly, juvenile – and quite frankly cowardly – behavior.   That is, I called him out on RS’s already prevelant practice of running their Operation Creep Out ops exclusively on women who were alone.  The punk didn’t even deny it…instead stammered until I got bored and ended the call.

So, based on FACTS that I have witnessed – some of which I have related above – I firmly conclude that Miscavige has degenerated into a full-time dramatization of his life-long goal of becoming an organized crime boss.   He always wanted to become Michael Corleone.  Problem is, he wound up no better than Tony Montana.

Now, to the point I guess.  I’ll tell you all what I tell people individually who receive this treatment. 

Miscavige’s objective is to get into your head.  If he does, he wins and you lose. If he doesn’t, you win and he loses.  SIMPLE and PLAIN.

A little wisdom from Tao Te Ching:

The best general enters the mind of his enemy.

Being a good general is as easy as breathing.  Lest anyone mistake this post for feeding the trolls (in this case DM and RS OSA), the only reason I bother with it is to impart some advice that has served me quite well over the past couple years.   Again from the Tao:

There is no greater illusion than fear,

no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself,

no greater misfortune than having an enemy.

Whoever can see through all fear

will always be safe.


247 responses to “Radical Scientology’s Protection Racket

  1. So he sics his lieutenants on women now. Isn’t that interesting; the dwarf has gotten so small he can’t even confront men any longer, just women and on a via at that.

    Ladies, if you get a call or a personal visit let them know in no uncertain terms that:
    (1) they’re not invited to your home or work place.
    (2) if they do show up you’ll be calling the police at the fist sight of them. (3) it will be considered trespassing if they so much as step foot on your property.
    (4) Do it.

    Do not back down from these thugs. If they know they have no effect on you, they’ll move on. I speak from experience.

  2. Great Post Marty, great words of wisdom. Thanks
    Love Carol

  3. Miscavaige, a crime boss? That’s a workable explanation of his behavior. It certainly explains his attempts to control others through overwhelm and fear.

    It also explains his decades-long obsession with “criminals”: how he elevates even rather minor perceived infractions to crimes, and continuously rants about being surrounded with criminals, demanding to know, “What are your crimes?”, etc.

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  5. Marty-

    Thank you for this post. It quite clearly demonstrates that MissCabbage IS a CRIMINAL PSYCHOTIC. It gives me pause as I consider and acknowledge the fact that this usurper commandeers the organization that LRH created. Simply mind-blowing! By the way, thanks again for all you do.


  6. martyrathbun09

    Good advice.

  7. Marty,
    Thank you for all this. Tremendous admiration for you!

  8. Of course this makes sense to a degree. If a Pre-OT is running into problems case wise that requires an auditing of a certain type to be done, possibly a repair that maybe takes 4 hours and rehabilitates that person to a new state they were previoulsy not in before, one of ability, then that is a good thing for all those involved and the world.

    But, in a David Miscavige camp, let’s say, this Pre-OT with a case issue is a Pre-OT of 25 years dedicated Sea Org service, instead of just a 6 hour repair done over a period of one or two days to fix the person’s issue and get them back on the rails, the RPF would be the right answer for 6 months to a year or more, or perhaps a declare or lower condition because “this being is not producing”.

    It is bad enough to not even want to comment on, because it boils down to the fact almost that if one speaks one’s true in the Church of Scientology bad things almost always inevitably come about.

  9. Thanks for the heads up, Marty. What a scamp David Miscavige is! H

  10. If DM was a sane person, he would let the independents be, and just mention that they are free to do as they wish as long as they dont creat problems, etc. He would be content to know that he could recover the poor independents as they come back from oppressive squirrel tech in the field. And if the independents were really squirrels, then the squirreld up PC’s would come calling back to the Church requesting repairs, standard tech, etc.

    But, isn’t it interesting. The flow is the opposite. We see the PC’s leaving the Church and seeking standard tech and non squirrel application in the independent field. This is not my opinion. We all see it as such. After all, how many stories of oppressed independents returning to the Church do you see in vast quantity?

    DM’s thuggish tactics are so plainly observable that when I read accounts of his monkeys doing what Marty describes above, the Keystone Cops soundtrack goes off in my head. It is laughable. But, then again, it is just as we should expect from DM. It is one of the products of his tone level, his ethics level, and his dynamic to do people in.

    I will make a prediction. In the next year or two, the defections will bring forth terminals that were once thought virtually impossible to leave. Such will be the results of DM’s actions and Marty’s brilliant counter actions. This in not to say that those that have already left are of minor magnitude. No, not at all. I am talking of names that I am sure you are all thinking of as you read this humble post.


  11. I note with interest the frequent use of the word “creepy” in Marty’s post. To the wog world “creepy” is definitely the face scientology presents to the world. Over the many years that Mike Rinder was the face of Scientology, I watched him with fascination, wondering why such a “creepy” guy would be chosen as the front man for the Co$. In the light of his defection, it’s particularly interesting to watch his “rubbish, rubbish, rubbish” response to John Sweeney’s enquiries about DM’s abuse. Today we have Tommy Davis, and while he really, really tries to be charismatic, he also has a smarmy, creepy aura. I realize, however, that creepiness is something that one develops as a Co$ operative – as evidenced by Rinders shedding of his creepiness since leaving the Co$. He now seems virtually normal. So, it’s interesting to hear him and Marty speak with such disdain of the creepy behavior that they were once so much a part of and of which they were among the most prominent perpetrators. The stance they take now would, under normal circumstances, indicate extreme hypocrisy. But in this case they should be seen as….reformed? I also wonder why I’ve heard no great mea culpa from either of them….perhaps because taking such a stance would open the door to legal troubles.

  12. Marty, Thank you !thank you! & thank you again!!!
    In your statement ” Stand up and see them for what they are, and they’ll scatter like cockroaches when the light is switched on.”
    We are the light!!
    You have expressed my deep core reality that the upper management of the Church of money is but a street level gang that is served by well paid lawyers
    funded by the suckers have harnessed to “their bridge” that goes nowhere.
    DM considers them suckers I know well by his actions.
    Those thugs (like the Allender critter) that are not on the payroll try to enforce his dictates thinking they will secure a position in his pack all the while not suspecting DM has ensured they are disposable at any given time and cannot rise to any position of power.
    (I feel disposable applies more correctly than dispensable when you try to assume DM’s view)
    Again WE ARE THE LIGHT!!!!

  13. Thanks for the references Marty. Stable data. Great advice from both you and Watching Eyes. One can also just let the dogs out…a women’s best friend.

  14. Marty, I know in the past you have commented that when you have posted about you and Mosey being under attack, that you don’t get as many responses.

    Obviously DM is out to get you, and not really interested in anyone else, other than as a via to get you. I don’t know how to directly help and find it distressing that you and Mike are being harassed.

  15. Tory Christman

    It takes great courage to speak out against such forces, I know this from experience. I also never forgot that I was “late on the chain” of people who had helped build the very road I was happily walking on—many who people don’t even know their names, but spent YEARS gather facts and info that are now common public knowledge about this insidious organization. Most of you know this, but some may not. I mention this was when I left, I had HUGE attacks on myself, and still do, 10 years later. Per their history of attacking any and all who speak out, exposing their abuses, this isn’t going to go away, Marty.
    However, Hubbard’s policy on “Flourish and Prosper” trumps ALL of
    their nitpicking crap they’ll pitch at you, any day, any how.

    The critics used to point out to me, when there would be huge attacks on ARS: “Magoo–never forget you must be doing Something VERY right that they’re taking the time to do this much against you”. The same is true for you, Marty, and all here. 🙂
    Mafia-like—absolutely. And by their very actions, they ARE driving themselves right into the ground. Which is why I say:
    Tick tock, Tick Tock: time is on *our* side!
    Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to ALL 🙂


  16. Tory Christman

    PSS: RE ” RS (Radical Scientology) has also sent the infamous Private Eye Lil’ Dave Lebow (aka Lebeau, aka Lubow)”….I think that was the rat they sent to a few of my friends homes, too, asking if I had “Slandered Tom Cruise to them”.
    What a joke! All I did was thank Tom Cruise (on TV) for showing the world what an “OT” from the “church” of $cientology looks like.
    Thankfully, my friends were each X-Sea Org and asked him: “What if what Tory said was the truth?” He then left. LOL….Davey: You can run……:)

  17. Fellow Traveller

    Thanks for the update.

    Hey, do y’all have an appropriate supply of Raid for the periodic infestations?

    I am thinking of lifetime supply of Raid for Christmas presents for all my buddies on the road who are “Moving On Up a Little Higher.”

    That would be lifetime of the cockroach and other pest infestations, not lifetime of my buddies.

    Bruce Pratt

  18. martyrathbun09

    Your Highness, read the Blog and all its links. Then I’ll let you dish out informed evaluations here.

  19. martyrathbun09

    Tory, you’ve made my gender point once again. I said a lot worse, and they never visited me.

  20. Centurion — You speak sooth! Hallelujah!!

  21. martyrathbun09

    Don’t feel distressed. We don’t.

  22. Thank you John Doe!
    Your posting just desolved one decade of being puzzled and having confusion about an encounter I had with DM (which resulted me being hit with harsh ethics and (un) justice treatment).
    In “normal” life that incident could have been easily resolved with a sane two-way comm.
    You wrote: …….. how he elevates even rather minor perceived infractions to crimes……
    Finally….. I found out “what I have done” and what my “crimes” were.
    All makes sense now!

    And to Marty: Thank you again for all what you are doing!
    I am on the way to “moving on up a little higher”.


  23. Thanks Marty. Very informative post.

    I would add that anyone experiencing this sort of attempted bullying should document it — LaBlow doesnt seem to like being on camera.

    You can also file a complaint about LaBlow if you feel you are being harassed/stalked/lied to. Complaints can be filed with:

    Bureau of Security and Investigative Services
    Department of Consumer Affairs
    State of California
    Post Office Box 989002
    West Sacramento, CA 95798-9002

    Concerning David Lubow, dba as Falcon Business Services, Inc., Santa Clarita, CA. Licensee No. 24394

  24. I expect if Lubow and Allender (and other PI’s) sat down and watched James Garner in The Rockford Files, then adopted a more endearing beingness, we’d all get along better. Just an idea … H

  25. Always a pleasure to hear from some anonymous (and always well informed) voice from the peanut gallery. Wogaphile, you really advanced the ball here….

  26. Sara — no need for concern, let alone distress. But thanks for your thoughts….

  27. Marty,
    I recall something LRH said about “even heroes can have lice” and “ignore the yapping cur dogs”…misscabbage does seem sort of verminish at times and he, as well as those other little nasty things he associates with, are annoyingly cur-like in their cowardice. Obviously, you’re correct in your actions so let’s all just go on ahead and be-do-have standard LRH tech.
    Truth will always blow away the lies and getting rid of lice has its own tech, which you and many others seem to have down cold. Bravo!!!


  28. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    You KNOW that I’ll BACK YOU UP if the *creeps* crawl into your space!

    ΘTater/Gary (a villager with “No Bugs, M’Lady” defenses and a bright torch for DM)


  29. Here is another example of “out Grade II”. If you capitulated to his request and said exactly what he wanted, this person would now feel he is in control and then would inflict guilt. As it is, he is apparently worried that he cannot control you. He is out Grade I, too. While it is impossible to clear everyone’s ruds before they post, out-ruds should be pointed out and acknowledged when they are flagrant.

  30. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    As is yours, Marty!

    Thank you for delivering spirit-saving truth.


  31. Thank you for this post, Marty. It explains so much of the opposition I’ve run into outside of Scientology….mostly in the media. It’s not really personal either. Its like they “pick up” what I might represent once all the bullshit is clarified. While DM might like to be Michael Corleone, he is more like Santino but underneath is even more like Freydo. He should watch out for toll bridges and fishing trips. Who is Johnny Ola in this scenario?

  32. Wogo,
    What? A person can’t change?

  33. Wogaphile,
    Are your parents siblings?

  34. Disclaimer: The authenticity of the following leaked draft cannot be verified at this time, but does have the flavor of the current management of the Church of Scientology, as led by their highly questionable and allegedly abusive self-proclaimed ecclesiastical leader, David Miscavige.

    Office of the Chairman of the Board


    Dear Remaining Loyal Scientologists,
    It doesn’t take more than a couple of brain cells to see that the world is rapidly nearing its predicted, apocalyptic ending. War in the Middle East, energy sources running out, saber-rattling from rogue nations, nuclear proliferation, bankrupt nations, global warming, forests disappearing, rampant corruption, drugs, suicides, cyber-bullying, internet gone wild, these are but a few of the many indicators of a planet long since out-of-control and within a hair’s breadth of going completely insane, headed at breakneck speed towards oblivion.

    This Fourth Dynamic dilemma is our responsibility and we’d better start getting tough and significantly increase the control of our environment or we’re all done for. As a side note, recent attacks against me and our church by the so-called, Independent Scientologist movement has given me even more resolve to lead the way in this new campaign of effectiveness.

    An extensive eval recently completed by International Management found the Why for any of our difficulties as: “FAILURE TO COMPLY DUE TO COUNTER-INTENTION”.

    The good news is that not only did we find the right why, but we have a solution to that why in the form of a new breakthrough program that is going to send our cause level exploding like the volcano on a holographic DMSMH book cover.

    With the program I am about to introduce, you will be amazed at easy it is to make counter-intention and non-compliance disappear faster than Mama Cass eating a ham sandwich. Just think, YOU receive an order, YOU comply. The stats soar. Now…THAT’S an efficient and extremely simple approach to this problem that is going to put us in a condition so high it hasn’t even been invented yet. Handling this simple why is going to cause the stats across the planet to sky-rocket straight up and vertical into the sky, past the stars, into the depths of outer-space exploding out through the edge of the universe and beyond!

    Today, I am overjoyed to finally be able to release to you: THE PLATINUM AGE OF TOTAL COMPLIANCE.

    Let’s get right to the meat and potatoes. What does this program consist of, exactly? Well, here’s how it works: every single Scientologist on the planet, on staff or not, will be given weekly targets and believe me, they will be tough and they WILL be met. If that target is not met by it’s target date, one simply applies the proper step of this program and I assure you it will obliterate any COUNTER-INTENTION and NON-COMPLIANCE standing in the way of target attainment.

    For instance, let’s say Joe has a target to get ten new people into the org by the end of the week. Sadly, the target is not met. What is the on-policy thing to do? Well, Joe needs a penalty that is too gruesome to confront and it needs to be enforced. Now THAT’S standard application of ethics technology!

    In order to make this standard program as simple as possibly for anyone to standardly apply, we’ve come up with a standard gradient scale of standard penalties that ARE standardly gruesome enough that none of you will want to standardly confront:


    1. Poke your finger into your own chest 10 times, HARD while looking at your written target.

    2. Stand in front of a mirror, mock up a hard face and yell insults at yourself as loudly as you possibly can for at least 1 minute.

    3. Slap yourself in the face hard at least 5 times.

    4. Punch yourself hard in the stomach when you least expect it.

    5. Put yourself on a diet of slop for one week.

    6. You will wear sandwich board which says, “By my own incompetence, I am personally dooming mankind to misery and pain for eternity because I am a lazy gay pervert with evil intentions” until target is met.

    7. Half-rations of slop. One hour of sleep per night. Must wear sandwich board. One-half hour daily of crawling around on a rug until knees are chafed. No sex. No smiling. No laundry. Not allowed to look others in the eye. Must punch self hourly.

    Now, THAT’S what I call handling the hell out of CI and non-compliance with a vengeance!

    If a given target is not met, the first gradient step is applied to oneself by oneself. If one then makes that target, fine, no more penalty will be necessary, pertaining to that particular target. But if after applying the appropriate step of the program and the target is still not met…the gradient is increased to the next step and so on until the target has been met. I assure you, by the time you get to step 7, making that target will be the most important thing in the universe to you.

    Now THAT is method that should prompt even the most counter-intentioned to simply raise their cause level and start being effective. I’m counting on all of you to enforce this program, but just in case you don’t…we have a standard solution to that, too.

    The Permanent Senior Medal of Extreme Valor Emeritus winner, Tom Cruise, the toughest and most dedicated Super-Scientologist I know, has already voluntarily put himself successfully through this program. As a result, Mr. Cruise has hereby resigned all of his positions in the entertainment business to assume the newly created post of International Compliance Executive (ICE). Let me just tell you when it comes to the cold, chrome steel ruthless standard attitude necessary to succeed at this post, outside of me there are none more qualified than Mr. ICE himself, Mr. Tom Cruise. All of you are about to become…hard as ICE. The motto of this new division is, “You’re either in the game or you’re out of the stadium.”

    The ICE is authorized to personally enforce any or all of the above penalties whenever it is discovered that individuals have failed to standardly do so themselves.

    Mr. Cruise’s immediate juniors are the new Nation of Islam HCO/IAS Network who will be on hand to help with his enforcement of this program and believe me, these guys do not patty-cake around when it comes to the application of this type of standard ethics.

    The first action of the ICE is to implement the new buddy system of enforcement. Everyone will be assigned a twin who will be authorized to immediately EXPEL their twin from Scientology for failure to comply with the list of penalties by simply using the command, “I EXPELL YOU” while pointing at that person. That person will subsequently be mailed their DEGRADED BEING FOR ETERNITY certificate. Anyone failing to take this action against their twin when necessary, will be personally and immediately expelled by the ICE who will step in and expel BOTH twins, simply by pointing his first and little fingers at them. Believe me, you will NOT want to see this hand gesture aimed at you. How’s THAT for speed of particle flow?

    I’m sure no one wants to experience having to expel their own friends and family members, so that’s even more reason to ensure the effectiveness of this program.

    I expect this application of pure ethics technology to elevate us from third-world step-child status to world-wide domination faster than .

    This Platinum Age of Total Compliance will eliminate all the ‘free-thinkers’, downstats and SPs, allowing the rest of us to get the show on the road, no longer impeded by the dead wood of incompetency and destructive independent viewpoints. The old days of non-compliance and evil-saturated counter-intention are OVER!

    It’s a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist and one that must be earned.Those who make it through this program will be the heroes, IN the game, meeting their targets and relishing the victory that is guaranteed to be ours.

    Here’s to a Cleared Planet!


    David Miscavige
    Chairman of the Board, RTC
    Sole Ecclesiastical Leader of the Scientology Religion

    cc: Tom Cruise, Former Mega-Star, ICE

  35. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Woof! Woof! sniff, sniff, sniff….

    “I’m sure you’re Probably who you say you are, but regulations require me to sniff your butt.” – Callahan

    Wog-a-pile, I smell Troll-Butt!

  36. Mea culpa?? Mea culpa?????
    Are you paying any attention to past an current events at all????
    Your obvious lack of familiarity with Scientology or reverse Scientology casts a broad doubt at your ability to analyze the current scene. I suggest you attempt to walk in the shoes of Marty or Mike, experience 1/1,000th of what they have experienced and contributed and then conduct your analysis and critique.
    Keep looking.

  37. Wogaphile:

    I dabbled in Scientology. I was a volunteer staff member, did some FSM work, bought books, training but I never got deeply involved in Scientology because the people there were not honest. An observation I made not an accusation.

    There was no one I knew of outside the church at the time I left that I could have turned to that would have understood what I was experiencing so I considered Pyschotherapy to sort out the problem, but never went and instead later sorted out the fact myself.

    I don’t think anyone is really at ease in an environment like the Church of Scientology today, because it most Scientologists are on “terrorist alert” inside the church.

    You are saying that Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun are 2 creeps that have now shed that image since leaving the church by becoming even creepier, is that correct?

    Well, you are entitled to your opinion, I have mine, but it is not much of an opinion. I know the both of them were big important people in the church, but they are not in the church anymore, but then again neither am I, and as I said I did not consider myself creepy at the time I was “IN”, instead, I thought I had mental problems getting involved in a group like the Church of Scientology I was active in, in the first place. So, it’s just a matter of the way look at it.

    I will have to admit, people may say I am attractive, or good looking, or whatever, that my legs are nice, but when I left Scientology I may not have looked it, but I felt “pretty wired out”.

  38. OTDT
    Brilliant! Love it!

  39. Speaking of “creepy”……

  40. Great post Marty! Friends of mine have been scared and I’ve always tried to reassure them, they CANNOT create an effect on you unless you let them. When Mike was away, he warned me after Mosey had a visit. My first thought was: “Ok, fine. If a stranger comes knocking on my door I’ll just call the cops immediately.” No problem. These pathetic thugs are just that – pathetic and we are not scared.

  41. Watching eyes:”So he sics his lieutenants on women NOW??” ohhh no no no. Not only “NOW”. I have been the target of this kind of harassment for the past 6 years. PIs with tattoos on their arms, waiting for me by the school when I go to pick my son from school. Photographers waiting there taking pictures of me. Cars following us. Even my son noticed the car that was following us the other day and asked :”Mum why is this car following us?” 6 years. Vans waiting outside my house. One night at 11 o’clock a BMW did a U turn on the road and started coming towards my car full speed. Well the first though that came to mind was : ” Ok buddy let’s see whose car is stronger. Mine or yours.” They try to intimidate me and get me to move out of this town. But THEY HAVE NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!!!! I am here and I am gonna stay no matter how many PIs and idiots you are gonna hire Moron!!!!!!! As of the OTs who play his game, waiting for me by the bank, or the post or walking outside my house “cursing it” with their superpowers……… a little message:” You have got no dignity whatsoever!!!!. I have got more respect for a cockroach than you!. I can’t even bother to spit at you …. Get a life Morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  42. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Tory, Guess you know roach poo when you see it. 😉

    (crunch, crunch… oops… sorry davey, didn’t see your PIs crawling there!)

  43. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    Now you know that Florida roaches drink Raid like Kool-Aide, don’tcha?

    I recommend sending Hammers for Christmas presents. I have personal knowledge that they are more effective (though messy 🙂 ).


  44. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Mike – Good info – I love the way you and Marty think!

  45. I thought is was real until it said something about getting people into the org.

  46. Marty, thanks and this is a good post.

    The only power Davey has right now is money. It is the only power any thug boss has. Without access to the money he IS N OTHING. With that much money he can be a bully. But even the Mafia never stooped to doing anything like that. The Mafia threatened the target of their ire, not their women. They weren’t cowards like David Miscaviage.

    But it really bugs me that thugs come and bother the women when the men are gone. Where I come from, this calls for an all-out ass beating. In my old neighborhood the perp would have been hunted down and – well he would never do it again.

    Right now Linda is getting trained by me in the fine art of Judo. I dare anyone to come and threaten her (assault). Broken bones are in that persons future.

    And look what happened to Hansuli, when we blew the whistle on him visiting an elderly OT VII at 2:00 AM, when she lived alone and threatened her. I called his ass out on that one. Now he washes dishes in PAC. Lucky for him because he comes to my place or anyone else and even so much as veils a threat, they are going to visit the hurt locker. Hear that Lebowe?

    I don’t mind someone calling me an SP and all of that silly na, na stuff, but threatening women and so forth is not Scientology -it is bullshit.

    ML Tom

  47. Hi Marty,

    I’ve been away for awhile and got back and found one of those emails you spoke of in my in-box.

    I only have a couple of comments;
    1) I’m home now. If one of the p@%*y detectives wish to visit, they know where I live.
    2)Marty is getting Lots of TA on multiple fronts and obviously that is the basis for the current attacks. I’m sure it’s not fun, or perhaps it is, but please continue. I think you are doing well.
    3) Good Girl Mosey! This is Texas. They do have something to fear if they are trespassing and do not leave when told to do so.
    4) To OSA or the robots that are doing their bidding – Grow a pair and get a life. Life is fun and out there. It’s not hiding and supporting a coward. LIVE!

    To all – Have a relaxing and family oriented holiday season if such applies to your religion.

    David Lingenfelter

  48. Thank you Marty for this post…
    You LRH quote blew lots of charge on me!!
    love to you and Mosey


  49. ΘTater/GaryLerner


    What can I say? I am impressed with the release (sniff, sniff… whew!) of the straight up/vertical DM-PL (david misnomer policy letter).

    I need to recommend that an amended arbitrary be appended to the “THE PLATINUM AGE OF TOTAL COMPLIANCE” that would require all RLS’s to be on the new “Solo Flag-ellation Course” that will be personally supervised by ICE and DM (personal golden thongs required for dress code).

    Village Chairman of the Torches
    Official Independent Scientologist and Knocker of DM’s Castle Doors

  50. Regarding John Allender, in the early ‘80s he was the “Tech Sec” at Stevens Creek Mission. This was during the Wimbush era – the “dedinging” and “power pushing” varities of OUT TECH. He didn’t have the spine to stand up for Standard Tech – COWARDICE. He was blind to the truth then, just as he is blind to the truth now. And it is apparent that his overt acts are compounding. He was a dupe in the ‘80s and continues to be a dupe today. Now he is DM’s OT VIII stooge. John Allender demonstrates his WEAKNESS through actions in opposition to LRH intention – in the name of LRH!

  51. I think also it’s because Dave can’t attack the field and new orgs as long as the spotlight can be shown on him via this website. His solution is to take down Marty. We’re organizing for delivery and Dave is most afraid of that.

  52. It’s good to hear you’re auditing again Marty. I think there’s a natural filter in place where you’re going to be auditing people who it’s most worthwhile to audit (ref: SOS – potential value of an individual) because they’ve disagreed the most with the suppression, so time well spent for sure.

    Here’s a nice video of Trey Lotz I’ll throw in here as well. He’s auditing over 40 hours a week.

  53. Since Allender is a paying $cientology public, and hot a hired PI, my guess is that he’s volunteering to OSA to do some of their dirty work, in the hopes of currying favor with DM. Why would anyone need or want to curry favor with DM? Well, we all know OT 9 and 10 is just around the corner and will be released any day now, and that it’s therefore necessary for all “upstat OT 8s” to have all their ducks in a row and be able to show significant contributions to the expansion of $cientology. Of course I’m being facetious as not only there is no OT 9 & 10, but only in a corrupt “church” would bullying women even be seen as a “contribution”. I know that Allender also spends some of his time trying to bully anonymous and ex-scientology protestors into silence. I think Allender is a very off-purpose, mis-guided who’s applying Reverse Scientology to his environment. He should find out which universe he’s in and perhaps try to recall why he became a scientologist in the first place.

  54. LOL! Priceless OTDT – I loved this one:

    4. Punch yourself hard in the stomach when you least expect it. hahah

    The sad part is that the letter from the chairman is so close to being real that it could actually happen.

    Even the Mafia care for their family more than Miscavige & the IAS care about fellow Scientologists.

  55. martyrathbun09

    Thanks. If you and Mercy have some spare time around Xmas, feel free to stop by and visit on eve or xmas day. We’re right down the road and the light is on for ya’ll.

  56. martyrathbun09

    I highly doubt this is the c of s. I mention it so that others don’t go paranoid. The current scene is precisely as I noted. They do not have the resources for the treatment outlined in this comment.

  57. “The Mafia threatened the target of their ire, not their women. They weren’t cowards like David Miscaviage.”

    But a terrorist wouldn’t have a second thought about going after a women. Sound familiar?

  58. one of those who see

    Not Fair OTDT, I am at work laughing hysterically out loud. How am I going to get anything done. My God Man you are really good at writing this stuff!!

  59. DM isn’t a Corleone. If he is anybody in The Godfather, he can only be one of three characters. From GF1, he could be Philip Tataglia … in that mainly he is a pimp. From GF2, he could be Don Fanucci, who was simply an asshole that crossed Vito’s path enough times to make it worth his while to “terminantedly handle” the situation. Or, in GF3, he could have only been Joey Zaza, who was a low level enforcer and a chump who got whacked.

    Never having been a SeaOgre and never having been on the Int base, I still find it fascinating to read the accounts of those who were there. It never ceases to amaze me how that little schmuck had everybody cowed. Really, the only parallel to it that I have read in terms of making a living thru psychological manipulation was “Pimp: The Story of My Life” by Iceberg Slim aka Robert Beck, which, in the late 60’s became the defacto bible for wannabe pimps, much to the dismay of Beck, who wrote about his life as a warning.


  60. Marty and Mike,
    This type of attempted intimidation is also a hate crime.

    As an Independent Scientologist we have protection in our own personal beliefs and practice of what we consider our religion. There are numerous documents and court cases brought by the Church of Scientology to establish it as religious in nature. This is a separate issue than the non profit statis. Even the judge’s decision in the C of S of California vs the IRS for the years 1970-72 upheld the religious basis but denied the non profit status due to inurement of benefits to individuals.

    As such, there is protection for all Independent Scientologists from “Hate Crimes”. The definition and acts are different in various states but as an example for Illinois (not anywhere near me but I could find the wording quickly for this state) the data is quite clear in that it involves religion, and the predicate offenses that are most commonly charged as hate crime include assault and aggravated assault (for example, threats, threats with a weapon), and telephone harassment. What determines if a crime is bias motivated (and thus a hate crime) is language or symbols, previous incidents in same area or by same offender, lack of provocation by victim, absence of other motives (for example, money), offender’s membership in hate group, and time (for example, religious holiday, etc).

    Similar incidents documented over time. Every Independent reporting this as a hate crime would put a crimp in this creepy activity. I don’t think many would even think twice about whether or not organized Scientology is involved in hate crimes. This would be another activity by the Church destroying the PR of the Church. Slow but sure suicide to continue this line of action.

    I think if a PI started having hate crime complaints, there may be more speed on investigating whether or not he could keep a state license to operate. The license is not a license to commit hate crimes, no matter who the PI works for.

  61. Andy, Re: John Allender. I declared him SP in 1982. He was “recycling clears”. In other words – when the GI was down he would find some clears and pullthem in and “undeclare” them and then reg them for more intensives. I asked him how many clears he had undeclared. He told me “17 of them”. I had him read HCO PL Clears, Invalidation Of and then had him do step a of a-e.

    It makes total sense he is a stooge for DM. They both hate clears.

    ML Tom

  62. Hey Marty, if DM is so afraid of real OTs maybe we can do a “Children of the Lens’ final act on him. Just a thought.

    ML Tom

  63. ROFL

  64. That’s the fighting spirit Tom, good to hear. So you got Hansuli busted? Good!

  65. Holy crap, I’ll bet DM got the idea to do just – except on a grander scale – from this bleeping bleepard!
    Michael A. Hobson

  66. Funny that you mention ‘stooges’, ’cause I been thinking about all this PI intimidation stuff and after I read or see a video about these nincompoops, I can’t help but think of these characters as I view the Three Stooges, totally ineffective bungling idiots that accomplish nothing.

    I hope there are three of them that kinda work together. Man, that’ll make my day.

  67. Ha ha ha.

  68. Addendum:

    “I expect this application of pure ethics technology to elevate us from third-world step-child status to world-wide domination faster than a herd of SPs running from my new Ethics book.”

  69. Wogafile.

    You’re about as creepy as it gets.

    Especially when you attack a well respected member of our internet community in such a despicable and underhanded manner.

    Thanks for providing a real live example.

  70. Scott Campbell

    Hey Mike,

    Congratulations on becoming “Virtually Normal”.

    I hadn’t noticed.


  71. Scott Campbell

    And even creepier…

  72. Scott Campbell

    Good point, SA.

  73. Scott Campbell

    Hey, That’s my auditor!

    What a great guy. A truly gentle and great big being with a lot of love in his heart for others.

    Merry Christmas Trey!

    L, Scott

  74. Through this blog Luis and Rocio have become my and my husband’s personal friends and this is now personal to us. Please come to 13262 Orange Knoll Dr., Sanata Ana, Ca 92705 and be prepared to meet the grizzly mama of all grizzly mamaes (me), the strong thetan that will challenge you in all ways possible with LRH philosophy/tech and common sense (my husband), a division one caliber football player/world-class martial arts fighter (my two sons) and the most stubborn debators of all stubborn debators who will out-debate/out-wit/out-number you any day of the week and twice on Sundays (my two daughters) – please, please, please. Anything we can do to prevent that Rocio (one of the nicest people we’ve ever met) to get all the attention from these criminals we’ll be happy to share.

  75. Scott,
    Found the one for us – CAL. PEN. CODE § 422.6 : California Code – Section 422.6

    (a)No person, whether or not acting under color of law, shall by force or threat of force, willfully injure, intimidate, interfere with, oppress, or threaten any other person in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him or her by the Constitution or laws of this state or by the Constitution or laws of the United States in whole or in part because of one or more of the actual or perceived characteristics of the victim listed in subdivision (a) of Section 422.55.

    You can use this and file a complaint if any intimidation or interference in your practice of your beliefs.

    Hope we can get together and catch some tuna this next year.

  76. Killer post!
    Ice, Ice Baby….I used to be an actor!

  77. Dear Marty,
    Superbly written essay to blow charge on the 3rd dynamic group.

    DM escalates on you EXACTLY PROPORTIONATELY to HOW EFFECTIVE you are…

    I always recall those words ~~

    Shelley Miscavige live communication one on one to Marty

    “DM said there is only person that can take him out and cause his DEMISE ~~~~~~~~~it is Marty Rathbun.”

  78. Also, in Texas, we have the Castle Law; they might want to be careful where they’re trespassing. They may get more than a warning!

  79. Last I heard, the inside circle of RTC was 98% female….it must be his muscular biceps restimming all the “pain and sex” track of his blindly loyal bootlickers. After all, ALL SP’s can do is restimulate others, no case gain there. Oh, and his chief “enabler” Yingling also claims to be of that gender, but with these lawyers, appearances are never what they seem…….
    I hope her E&O premiums are up to date…”unjust enrichment”
    is one of many possible torts she is open to.

  80. This is very good that you placed these videos here on this BLOG because:

    FIRST: It saves people the trouble of searching for them.
    SECOND: Some of these people got into and got out of Scientology before myself and many others may have left or decided not to go back. So, these people’s names may not be household words but in any event one of the only ways to learn about them may be here on this BLOG, from these videos. So thanks.

  81. This guy in this film is so cool. Is he an actor? He is THE Tom Cruise!

    It is so funny. Tom Cruise laughs just like that, (I am not even sure what tone level it is really), he claps his hands just like that and laughs, and gets excited and emphatic when making points just like that.

    I love this little guy, he is my little Italian hero, he’s so funny and such a good actor.

  82. MR,
    I’ll keep that in mind. Tks brother.

  83. If Sunshine lives in Clearwater I wouldn’t rule out the “churches” involvement. Amy and I experienced what Sunshine describes and more while we lived in CW. Not that we gave a shit. There is plenty of IAS money to hire PIs to follow people around. One of the PIs got a little carried away so I filed a police report and then I called OSA CW and told them to get their boy under control. Once I did that we no longer had PIs on us.

    The handling is simple, if someone is following you or staking out your house, just call the police. OSA and its PIs will run for the hills like the criminals that they are. Its that easy.

  84. I don’t agree with a lot of of what Wogaphile says here, but he has one very legitimate point, one which others have commented on previously; watching videos of Mike when he was COS spokesman and watching the interviews he has given since, one is struck by a stunning contrast, both in physical appearance and demeanor.

    I wouldn’t call Mike “creepy” as spokesperson, but I would say his manner then was certainly aggressive, off-putting and a bit harsh. In his latest interview with Sweeney, he came across as relaxed, confident and affable. I remember thinking to myself, “is this really the same guy?”

    When seeing how comfortable he was in front of Sweeney’s cameras, it was a no brainer to see why he had been selected as the COS spokesperson. It’s just too bad he was saddled with the baggage of having to defend the Church’s abuses in that role, which undermined his natural likability on air.

    One can only hope that we will one day be able to witness Tommy Davis undergo a similar transformation, as he appears on some television show to recant the many lies he has told to the public.

  85. Heads up COS I’m on to you . This is a warning you better STOP using my kids as pawns for your dirty work. I was asked today “How much did you pay for your auditing mom?”. Not only asked once but 3 xs. I said “I’m not discussing that with you”.
    I already said that I would expose any injustices commited to me or my family so there you go.

  86. Totally awesome dude!

  87. Tony DePhillips

    This aligns with my experiences. I once had a fairly small run in with a local ED. I was recalled to Flag while on Solo Nots at huge personal expense and was grilled on the emeter by a young MAA who was obviously barley meter trained. He was probing for my crimes in a very repetitive fashion that was very much like the dirty your needle drill. This went on until I requested a sec check , because I was either going to tell this punk to f–k off and get declared or something else undesirable was gong to happen. The whole trip cost me thousand of dollars. I recall thinking WTF!!?? This whole thing could have been easily handled with a half way decent comm cycle and If Flag knew how to handle an OT.
    They couldn’t even delver a decent comm cycle at the mecca of technical perfection and the friendliest place on Earth…spare me!!

  88. One day the sleazy comedy team of Lebow and Allender are going to try and intimidate some chick who is like Lizbeth Salander and it’ll be game over for ’em.

    They’ll be drinking their meals through a straw.

    Hey Dave have you paid up their Health Insurance Premiums?

  89. ROFL !!!!!!!!!¨!

    you made my day !

  90. Priceless!

  91. Well written piece mr. Rathbun 😉

    This is Why
    David Miscavige if you are reading. You are still a Nipple head.
    The kind you cannot hide with plastic surgery.

    And a chicken Coward. When I think of you I think of you almost soiling your pants when Jesse Prince came into the office one day and you went Bawww Bawww bawww it wasn’t me”

    You have no legacy

  92. Independent Scientologist

    At his core, Miscavige is an obnoxious Philadelphia street punk. Brilliant, for sure, but a punk. I’d like to express my unbridled amazement that he fought his way to the top of the Scientology hierarchy by the tender age of 23. No one saw him for what he was and knew he had to be stomped on? Even more amazing.

    – Ron Matlock

  93. These games are somewhat interesting, but I would rather see DM removed from his position and the Church re-unified with the field. It is certainly possible to reclaim sanity. The independent field lacks the structure and organization needed to move the mass numbers of people up the bridge. How to train auditors without a course room? I mean really train them? To simply give up and say DM has won and the Church is lost doesn’t really seem like the right answer. Certainly getting off lines of suppression will make anyone feel better, but what about the future of Scientology for all humanity?

    Hi. I got your name from David’s St. Lawrence’s post. If you’re reading this blog I would appreciate it if you sign your name to any future emails you send me, especially if you want to spread lies and rumors about Marty.
    I’d also like to know how much it cost to sell your soul to DM?

    Hi. I did indeed witness your cowardly stuttering when Marty called you out on your tactics to intimidate single women. If it’s any comfort to you, your boss is even more of a coward than you are, otherwise he wouldn’t need you to do his dirty work for him.

    A reminder to both. You are not dealing with kool aid drinkers. Now you’re taking on the big league players – The Indie women! – These are made of far sterner stuff than the meek and compliant sheeples you’re used to dealing with.

    I don’t worry about Mosey or Rocio or Lori. Rather you take on a pack of Amazons than have to someday face these wrath of the Indie women 😀

  95. To those of you lurking or just newly arrived, you should know that I no longer consider myself a scientologist, having taken my last service in 1993 after completing OTVIII shortly after it was released.

    From 1993 to 2000 I still thought of myself as a scientologist and by 2000 I realized — no, I’m not anymore.

    Too many things, for way too long, simply ceased to make any lick of sense. How could sea org members – “those who would be lionized and red carpeted”(paraphrase LRH) be subjected to the cruel and unusual punishment of severe sleep deprivation, poor food and no health care UNLESS you were at the top of the heap.

    In any case, as a long time reader and contributor of this blog and someone who considers several posters here as my friends and well as Marty, Mosey, Mike and Christie and who has reunited thanks to this blog with other long lost friends — I wanted to weigh in on something that isn’t all the popular when I voice this — but here goes:

    IF as independents we/you consider yourself above those still “in” due to your courage for 1) leaving 2) speaking out 3) coming “out” broadly – then in my opinion this group will become yet another group. Segregated and opinionated. Divided from the greater whole of humanity.

    You/we cannot hope to create a world without war, insanity and criminality if we/you consider yourself BETTER than others AND harbor anger against your/our perceived opponents.

    This surely does not mean that you/we cannot expose the wrongs of others, cannot hold them responsible and seek to get them to stop by individual OR
    judicial means.

    BUT — if you/we have anger lurking in our/my heart — and act FROM that place of anger — this movement of independence will have eventually crumble as it will not have been ULTIMATELY any different than any other group “that is better than the other one”

    While anger is “merely” a tone level – I remind myself that it is the watershed emotion between sanity and insanity.

    While it seems completely “justified” to be furious and angry at dm and his ilk — it is STILL the emotion of anger and therefore the beginning of insanity.

    “Anger is like a chariot careering wildly.
    He who curbs his anger is the true charioteer.
    Others merely hold the reins.” (Dhammapada – Sayings of the Buddha)

    It’s a completely personal thing. It’s one of those “check in” moments — do I feel anger towards dm etc, do I wish them harm or their just deserts, do I take some sort of happiness in the unhappiness of others (ie. “I hope dm suffers in jail) …

    And all those types of thoughts.

    None of which will ever create a world without war, criminals and insanity.

    BECAUSE those thoughts and emotions have NEVER created an enlightened world in all the millennium. We just go around and around and around.

    This board COULD act as a litmus test for each of us. What triggers my emotions of anger, get-evenness and the like and WORK on yourself, in the privacy of your home to dissipate those feelings.

    May this season of family and holidays remind each of us of our greater humanity and the wish to help all beings enjoy happiness and freedom from suffering.


  96. Mike Rinder “virtually NORMAL”?!
    What vile and vicious slander!!!
    Take it back… you cad!
    The only ‘normal’ people I see (like the fine example of yourself) are still firmly shut in the sheep pen or trolling (like the fine example of yourself) in eager anticipation that the coveted reward of some small token of admiration from DM may be bestowed upon their cowed, unworthy head.
    Anyone know anyone ‘normal’ in this group?

  97. Apparently my first comment didn’t make it – I’ll try again:

    Marty, thanks for what you do and have done – which apparently is much more than what you generally share. More than “really appreciated”.

    My full respect and admiration to the many women on this blog on how they deal when they have to deal with cockroaches. The Founding Fathers had strong women on their side. Ladies, you compare extremely well with all their best attributes.

  98. Marty,

    A comment on DM’s penchant for attacking women:

    A cursory glance at the literature of the church or indeed a tour of LRH’s home illustrates clearly that Mary Sue Hubbard has been all but erased from the time track of Scientology.
    In addition to the above I have read various reports about DM’s vitriolic and unmasked hatred for Mary Sue.
    In any attempt to attack LRH, Mary Sue would be the obvious first target to take out as one person who would be loyal to and fiercely defend her husband against any and all attacks.

    In ‘SOS’ LRH states:
    “Men are difficult and troublesome creatures, but valuable. The creative care and handling of men is an artful and beautiful task. Those who would cheat women of their rightful place by making them into men should at last realize that by this action they are destroying not only the women, but the men and the children as well. This is too great a price to pay for being “modern” or for someone’s petty anger or spite against the female sex.”

    It is too simplistic to assume that DM’s minions are targeting women out of mere cowardice (they are, after all, operating on DM’s instructions).
    Clearly, given his track record, DM lives in the misguided hope that attacking a man’s wife or girlfriend will ultimately destroy the man and his children or at least weaken him to the point of increased malleability .

    It was my own personal experience at Flag and the observation of the treatment of other women (and mothers) that led me to realize that there was some bizarre campaign underway to undermine the 2D. A clear indication of this was an incomprehensible rampant out-2D in the OT field which was handled at Flag with the statement “HCO does not interfere with the 2D – it’s a personal matter” A closer look at the scene and further reports will most likely bear out that what has been exposed thus far is merely the tip of the iceberg in the matter of DM’s campaign.

    Ev-purps. calculated, convoluted and completely insane. Just sayin’

    Incidentally. DM hates women.

  99. Freedom Fighter


  100. “They do not have the resources for the treatment outlined in this comment???”

  101. For the records:
    I received an anti marty mail on 16.12.2010. Sender: auto260@hushmail.com
    Maybe of interest: Adding comments to this blog I used since around jan 2010 a different mail than before. And the spam went to the old and not the newer mail adress of mine.

  102. Thank you Amy or Amy’s husband?. The police is aware of it.

  103. martyrathbun09

    Thanks for the very sharp observation. You have spurred some food for thought.

  104. Freedom Fighter

    WH, I hear you and would offer you another viewpoint:

    First, IMO, if the Tech had been applied standardly across the boards rather than squirrelled to hell and back by the vertically challenged freak of nature, most of the BPC (by passed charge) zinging across this blog and across other arenas wouldn’t be present. Some of what you read here falls into that category. I do think that it can be handled — one PC or pre-OT at a time, in session with an auditor who has, knows, and can apply the Tech as it was intended to be used.

    As for whether this venting of BPC should occur in a public forum, well, all I can do is refer you to the ARC triangle as an example reference. There’s an awful lot of common reality here amongst those of us who have experienced the adverse effects of a the madman currently at the helm of the Church. I, for one, find it quite therapeutic to read about an experience of someone who has been through a similiar situation to my own. It helps me to realize that it really wasn’t just me or “all in my universe” as the introversion tactics of the SPs would have us believe.

    Second, emotion appropriate to the circumstances is actually sane, not insane. If the circumstances call for anger, yet someone is cheerful, that’s insane. Not sure if you’ve ever seen something like this, but I have and it looks quite odd when it occurs no matter what the tone level that’s being displayed.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents, FWIW.

  105. martyrathbun09

    I’m betting this is not really from Windhorse since it is so non sequitur to my post. I’ll check with the real Windhorse.

  106. martyrathbun09

    You are pefectly free to go for that objective but if your read the entire blog you might see that you are about ten years too late.

  107. martyrathbun09

    Not really that remarkable if one lived the circumstances of his ascent – he emerged during a time of major turmoil and power pushes in the vacuum of LRH moving off the lines.

  108. Warren,
    I suggest you study or re-study P.A.B. 91, THE ANATOMY OF FAILURE. While going over the principles of that issue, consider the use of gradients. Little by more, by more, each time winning on a step.

    For example “all humanity” breaks down to “a human”. Handling individuals.

    Putting out the postulate to do something for an individual, and carrying that out, well that can get wins. Gradiently adding more wins, and gradiently doing something for more individuals, before too long, you’ve positively affected a rational sphere of influence.

    Why take a lose, get a failed purpose on “all of humanity” not being sorted out when the saner and more winning approach is to take wins on handling that which you can right this moment, within a rational sphere of influence?

    For instance, in January, down in North Florida, I’m going to help establish a center for Independent Scientology/Scientologists, to get trained from the Student Hat up to Grad V. There won’t be at first crack, 200 students on course. But, I’ve personally Supervised three course rooms over the years that did go from a few to hundreds, and knowing what I know about Standard Tech, including standard Sup Tech, I foresee the exact same thing coming to pass. I haven’t ‘forgotten’ how to do this. It’s easy as cake, a piece of pie.

    It’s done by handling individuals. Getting gradient scale wins. Just like it says in P.A.B. 91.

    Maybe you’d like some Cramming, a retread, or some thorough False Data Stripping, Word Clearing and a re-do on auditor training, or even some sup training so you can apply this data on SUCCESS too.

  109. martyrathbun09

    Thanks Karen. The comm was actually to Claire Headley, not me.

  110. Warren, there is no stopping, no negotiating, and no stops in or on the Independent Scientology field’s activities. Sorry.

    Your “concern” that the independent field lacks the course room structure to get enough auditors trained to clear the planet? Let me tell you this. Function is senior to structure, Warren. It will all come in time. There are hundreds and thousands of trained auditors , most wasted or burnt by the church. Why not advocate that they be used to work in the Independent field? We can worry about space and mest later. Because that is a goal within reach and likely to happen.

    The independent field’s membership is growing and delivering while the church memebership is shrinking and the MEST heavy church is delivering overt products.

    The solution for any sort of useful future for the church lies in the church becomming decentralized, local control, more like the independent model. THAT is the only way corporate scientology will survive in a pro-survival manner. If that happens, wonderful. But it has no bearing on what the Indepedents do at all. Although it would be a good thing in and of itself. Then there would simply be a benign and peaceful co-existence. Good luck with that, let us know how it goes. But we are NOT going to waste our time, efforts and resources trying to save a diseased carrier, resistive to change and criticism, that attacks those who have tried to help it over the decades. Who would?

    DM has not won anything, Warren. He has buried himself in every way a thetan can bury themself.

    The old corpse of the church is rotten, Warren. But a new Baby has been born, its the Independent field. Bury the dead, Warren, and move on. Join us.

  111. Criminals and rapists are cowards by definition. They calculate their chances and devoid of integrity they choose for the most immediate survival. They torture victims as long as they think to get away with it but as soon as you approach them within an arms length, they get instantly polite, the big mouth quiets down, they sink into propitiation and run at the first opportunity. Sounds familiar Davey?

  112. Well, you have to give credit where credit is due- dm finally got one right.

  113. OTDT Darlin,

    You really need to take this on the road.

    Can you imagine all the charge it would blow in a crowded auditorium of Indies and those poor beings who are still in? (if their minds aren’t too far gone by now)
    I could amuse myself with that mental image picture for a long while.


  114. Marty,
    When I went to the Buddhist monastery in the summer, one that the real WH is familiar with, I related a story where one of the nuns there fairly cracked my knuckles and shot me a withering look in case my cracked knuckles didn’t impinge, over eating lunch at the wrong time.

    That being was there and very willing to live as she felt at that moment. The entire Tone Scale, every single feeling and emotion on it, is a creation of theta/thetans. Indeed, a very effective drill is to mock up every single one of those (e)motions and put them places, like the wall, a car, a street, a body, other bodies and so on, and regain cause over the creations of these particle actions.

    I’m rather enjoying creation of a really good ‘hate on’ for DM. I’m enjoying even more, causing it to persist (create, create) and even more still, ceasing that creation and taking out a new one to play with.

    Why, for the next one I’m looking forward to his reaction when I have him dressed in a gold lames party dress, his hair full of product so it won’t shift in a hurricane, and he’s riding down the palm lined road from the North side of the Base, on a li’l donkey, tiny saddle and all, screeching ” patches, I don’t has no stinkin’ patches”.

  115. It is from the real windhorse and I apologize for the non-sequitur however of late the blog has felt less and less like home to me. My first name starts with C.

    Perhaps now is the time to for me to move on.

    I think that BPC is surely something that can be handled and always have; whether in session or not.

    We all have BPC by virtue of being alive — things irritate us, whether we’ve ever been in session or connected to dm — this is part of life – other wisdom traditions call it — suffering.

    In any case, I wish you all well. What you are doing is terrific in creating a community. How it changes the world, will be up to each of you.


  116. Marty,

    Well, obviously DM does NOT want people talking to Shelly.

    I think what DM’s PI tactics translate to, are that MORE should be spoken about his relationship with Shelly, which unfortunately has deteriorated, and that deterioration of her obviously doubting him!

    DM’s trying to get others to doubt you.

    Shelly’s already DOUBTED DM, and that’s why she’s been put out to pasture so to speak.

    So, the point of DM’s tactics, are WHAT DM FEARS in his OWN life.

    He fears Shelly talking AGAINST HIM!


  117. martyrathbun09

    Ok C. Take a look at tonight’s post before moving on. And then, best wishes and best of luck (which is really theta).

  118. Breezy Stable Boy

    I tend to agree with Windhorse that a new direction and attitude is needed among people searching for spiritual truths.

    Whether or not a person is a scientologist is should not be the litmus test but what is in their hearts.

    The perpetuation of old animosities, the fanning of their flames is not “case gain” but dramatization.

    Miscavige will as is when we all realize our part in creating him!

  119. Jim: I don’t agree with every buddhist nun or monk, nor with everyone who practices buddhism. I try to remember what LRH said — judge scientology NOT by its practitioners but by the subject (paraphrase).

    In any case, if it works for you to have a full hate on for dm — go for it.

    Doesn’t work for me long term. I have someone who at my center I can’t stand for really GOOD reasons 🙂 — and I’m working on HOW can I feel equanimity towards her. It’s tough for me, but I’m trying. Would be lots easier to just wish her to walk through life with a branded red A on her forehead and be shunned by the world.

    HOW you feel about dm isn’t going to change dm in the slightest — but it could change you.


  120. Scott Campbell

    Good Job KA!

    I’m glad you got that (mis-communication) cycle straight in your head.

    You did not deserve what happened to you.


  121. Marty,

    You should provide here, statements, which people can TELL to PIs and to the volunteers that official Scientology (RS – radical Scientology) send at them.

    I’ve long advised protesters what to say, as statements said to PIs and to volunteers MUST be reported back to OSA, and THAT is a communication line.

    Take advantage of THAT communication line, to get the message BACK to OSA and BACK to DM.

    Use that communication line. Marty, Mike, PLEASE offer statements which you know will get relayed BACK to DM on the PI comm lines.

    Use that line is what I suggest, and you and Mike know BEST what will impinge back into DM’s mind.

    You and Mike probably both know DM’s mind as well as anyone.

    DM’s about his image, he’s about 20 layers of controlled brittle levels from being himself.

    You guys can get INTO DM’s mind, and you can both offer statements to ALL who will be communicated to by the PIs, so the PIs dutifully report back to OSA and back to DM.

    Shelly is DM’s HOT button! That’s the moral of this thread as I see it!

  122. Your humble servant

    I got that one too. Mysterious sender. How’d they know to send it to me? An entheta slam against Marty and Mike–I didn’t care to read it. Sorry, we are in a war here. The very side we thought was fighting for good all these years has been subverted and is now fighting for evil. Thank you, Marty, for this brilliant post. I continue to be amazed at all that you do. I think I’ll send you a donation for Christmas. Anyone else?

  123. Moving Forward

    Sapere, Though I agree fully with what you ware saying here about independents being protected in practicing their religious beliefs, I must take exception to the use of the term ‘hate crime’ and the idea of crimes being ‘escalated’ because of symbols or language used. A crime is a crime. Harassment, serious threats and abuse are crimes. They can be done for any number of reasons, but the rising use of the term ‘hate crime’ is something I do not consider positive; it is an attempt at criminalizing thought and is a dark road to travel. And though I very strongly disagree with hateful speech, racism, homophobia and the like, I always firmly believed in what Voltaire said: “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”

    I also always wished that the Church would operate on this precept, but they rather did the opposite and I would find myself quite literally at odds with it.

    While I was still on staff, I saw the Church openly supporting hate crime legislation and found that anathema to Scientology. Also, this support also seemed to come only because these laws could be used to silence critics and protesters; something I never agreed with. I have, over the years, spoken with many critics and always found that open communication was best. Sometimes they were just snarky exchanges, (either because that was the only kind of communication I was given or I fell prey that day to the group think on ‘protester handling’), but sometimes I had actual, good conversations. I never feared protesters and didn’t get why the Church did.

  124. Scott Campbell

    Right on SA.

    Just happen to have the California Code book right here…

  125. Samantha,
    That’s exactly what DM did to Annie and I. What he doesn’t get is that fucking with those types of affinity lines, theta lines, IS one of the prime overts that sit at the bottom of his current troubles.

    They are flashing back at him.

    DM’s cutting of high theta affinity lines whether it is between LRH and MSH, a mother and their children, husbands and wives, comrades, friends, fellow human beings on this planet trying to make their way and better things for themselves and their fellow human beings, IS a PRIME method he employs and IS a PRIME reason he’s now getting the flashback he’s witnessing.

    Sam, you’ve brought out a major, vital point in this post.

    He cut the high theta affinity line between myself and Annie. The overt that he involved others in; Marc Yaeger, Mark Ingber, Marty, Warren McShane, Mike Sutter (the marionette) and any other person at Int that saw just how much love existed and was created between her and I is one of the many similar overts that ARE the reason you are getting back what you put out.

    AND it is YOU who are the source of it all. YOU did it. Now, it’s coming home to roost. I aim to make sure it does. Then, if I decide, I’ll even help you do Step A of A-E. That door’s crack is getting smaller and smaller.

    David Miscavige, those who spoke on Anderson Cooper, those in OSA acting at his behest to sever high-tension (the HIGHEST there is) theta/affinity lines, by the actions described in this article, by disconnection, by false vilification and attempts to alloy affinity, by all these cumulative acts which summarize as cutting affinity, you are experiencing the flashback of the power in those lines.

    They can and will, if you don’t cease these acts, burn you to a cinder. The choice is yours. Cease the low-scale ARC, the negative ARC, attacks. They don’t ‘land’ over here, they just come back to YOU.

  126. Scott Campbell

    Oh man! Tuna!

    Let’s go! Another buddy of ours wants to go too!


  127. My edit of my post left out the indication it is DM (and his duped or willing ilk) that is the ‘you’ of paragraph 5 and 6 above.

  128. Scott Campbell

    “Solo Flag-ellation Course”?

    You guys are too much. This is some funny shit.

  129. Theo Sismanides

    Yes, I agree. Very good point, it’s of great value to all Independents.

  130. Moving Forward

    Sam, this is really spot on. And the terrible trauma inflicted upon women who are coerced into abortions is unconscionable. I could never understand why this was allowed in the SO and did not know that it came straight from the top until about a year ago.

    I will never forget the callous way in which my senior – a female – told me I should have an abortion (I refused in no uncertain terms), nor the way in which pregnant SO members were treated. It’s funny, out here in the supposed ‘wog’ world, expectant mothers are congratulated left and right, but on the PAC Base, half of the people I knew just stopped talking to me and I think I received at most 2 congratulations from other SO members.

    My husband and I had long discussions about how the tone level of SO members was being lowered by all of this suppression on the 2D. I just didn’t understand it. Knowing that it come straight from DM now makes it all clear.

  131. Sam — “Anyone know anyone ‘normal’ in this group?” No, I believe “normal” is a dirty word in this group. Hallelujah!

  132. Hey, Jim. Could you post this issue? P.A.B. 91, THE ANATOMY OF FAILURE. I don’t have access. Thanks! H

  133. Thank you Tom, I appreciate you providing more data on this 3rd Dynamic engram. As-isness.

  134. Sam,
    Apparently, the craving for ‘normalcy’ is a new disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual. It’s called, oddly enough, the Normal Disorder. I think Bill Maher is a case study.

  135. People are at different points on their learning curves on all the issues.

    I think the writer above is correct in part, because I think what is underestimated is LRH’s admin foundations. Official Scientology (radical Scientology – RS) is MORE than just DM’s last 30 years of ignorant and evil purposed subversion (I still contend that DM dodged the False Purpose Rundown auditing that HE should have gotten, in the 1982 period, and others who were all acting pretty dispicably at the top ranks of Scientology in that period, 1982ish).

    DM going to jail, or blowing, won’t unsettle LRH’s admin foundations in official Scientology (RS – Radical Scientology).

    I think we forget that those in offiicial Scientology, especially staff, still study those admin foundational writings daily, and LRH in those admin writings NOT at all, especially in his final 1980s admin writings, NEVER does LRH say throw out the admin systems. Those admin systems ARE just as valid to those treading the current DM treadmill version of Scientology.

    Scientology is NOT just DM’s treadmill, even though he may have people bending to his treadmill.

    Just behind the DM treadmill IS LRH’s admin foundations, and knocking down or largely changing those admin foundations set up by LRH, I think the only way to do that, is “by the book” which means WDC and Exec Strata.

    And I hope in the decades to come, that WDC and Exec Strata rise up to interact on chat sites like this one. And then what you independents have learned will leak BACK into the movement, and I think that’s the only way the admin foundations will change.

    LRH is the one who write the Scientology bible (all his writings, all extensively laid out, all dovetailing, ARE the Scientology bible).

    DM is NOT the bible. DM’s just the charioteer idiot bully for this 30 year stretch of Scientology history.

    Essay of Management applies so obviously to DM.

    Official Scientology (RS – Radical Scientology) may not have the heart and soul of Scientology principles to the degree that independent Scientology does, but the world recognizes official Scientology as official Scientology. Only educated ex Scientologists can fathom the correct labeling of official Scientology as “radical Scientology” (RS).

    DM subverting the tech and admin foundations of Scientology so obnoxiously for the last 30 years, resulting in the brain drain of good people who’ve been freely speaking up for years, I think the defection trend needs to be surveyed, to really get the actual trends, ebbs and flows, and facts.

    I wish one of the independents take on the trusted role of accurate surveyor, like a Pew Research department of the independent Scientology movement.

  136. Thanks for posting this.

  137. WH,
    (Pssssst, I was having some fun there. No ‘hate on’ really. BUT, there is much to be said about being able to have fun with ANY emotion. Free fluid motion and ability to create, or uncreate ANY manifestation. While still maintaining my buddha smile. My beatific smirk. My ridiculously persisting incipient laugh that ever-a-once-a-while bursts out in a body shaking full blown fit of fun. )

    As my buddy Micky Estrada used to say (with his southwest Tejas spanish accent) ‘Hey, loosin up chequita’.

  138. Like Hitler.

  139. Tony DePhillips

    We don’t need no stinkin NORMAL!!

  140. Scott Campbell


    I disagree that reuniting the Church with the Independent field would solve anything. The security and prosperity of Scientologists is actually rooted in recognizing the sovereign nature of the individual.

    Remember, even though we can and should survive as groups, the dynamics are concentric and occupied at the center by the source (or individual) and are inextricably linked to the main body of theta – the vast potential of unlimited creation – via the individual.

    In order to truly be free, it is necessary to ensure that all of the “Freedoms From” are not denied to the individual by institutional organizations. The C of S has become such an institution.

    Think of it this way – What would a “Church of Psychiatry” be like?

    I wouldn’t worry about training and such. There are Independent groups that can and do provide that. More are being established all the time. The difference is, they are independent and not subject to the arbitrary dictates of a monolithic institution who’s only motivation is self-perpetuation at all costs.

    Rather our motivation should be our duty to help our fellow man – carried out by the application of standard tech and the inherent goodness that is in all of us.

    I’ve noticed that there is a tendency amongst Scientologists to feel that if they are not Auditing, Studying or Training – that they are not contributing.
    Nothing could be further from the truth. How about just being nice to someone? How about taking someone fishing? Going to the races with your buddy or your family? Helping them re-arrange their furniture? Having a nice dinner together? Are these activities not worthy of the name “help”? Sure they are.

    For instance, I hadn’t gone fishing since before joining the Sea Org. The first time that I did go (with some friends from work) 5 years after leaving the Sea Org, I was so blown out – and gained so much space, that all of my troubles dissolved like the gossamer thoughts they were made of. What a Key-Out! Recreation is a key component of maintaining a healthy, balanced life. That’s why it’s called “Re – Creation”. One is literally re-creating himself and his multiverse.

    I can think of no prohibition against doing this. I also believe that the ol’ man himself would be proud of anyone who shook off the shackles of institutional suppression in order to help himself and others.

    I hope this helps.


  141. Tony DePhillips

    I am glad the cult of cabbage never beat that sense of humor out of you…

  142. I know that the CSI has used some IP and defamation laws to attack people (laws I do not think should exist), but for the most part it seems that people in Scientology voluntarily give and the only ‘pressure’ used on them is psychological and social. I think this is perfectly legitimate. The CSI, unlike the government, is not a protection racket.

  143. Scott Campbell

    I’ve always though that a world without war, crime or insanity would be pretty fuckin’ boring anyway.

  144. I heard one time Eugene Ingram DID act quite decently to a former long term loved Int Base staffer who defected, and also I saw a very very kind letter written by Norman Starkey one time, to a blown ASI staff member, apologizing.

    I think the exceptions, the complexities of Scientology history HAVE to be shared and taken into account.

    Additionally, when I was twinned on the RPF, my Int RPF twin Clark Morton received, in my opinion, a very nice letter from DM, apologizing in part to Clark, for the events that happenedly leading up to the situation for which Clark blew, and hence Clark came to join the Int RPF.

    I witnessed DM in years past, acting very ebulliently with fellow ASI staff members, at times.

    People will have their nice moments, and compassionate and friendly moments.

    And even one of the darkest PI’s in Scientology history, Eugen Ingram, acted decently, kindly, and the ex Int Base staff member who told me this personally, had NO reason to say nice things if they weren’t true, since that staff member ALSO detested DM.

    So I’d agree with you, absolutely! The PIs need to apply the “Manners” policy letter, and use ARC. The PIs shouldn’t even be hired to do a damn thing, though, really.

    Rather Scientologists who want to be still Scientologists, just not offiicial Scientologists, should not be excommunicated, they should just be let go live their lives freely and do Scientology independently however independent Scientologists see fit. WDC and Exec Strata could make this evolving situation a non issue, by issuing an “Int Management Bulletin” (LRH was the one that wrote that Int Management, meaning WDC and Exec Strata, have their very OWN issue type to communicate to the movement, and Int Management Bulletins were issued in the 1980s, and those ARE a valid communication line that LRH ORDERED that Int Management HAVE and USE!!), saying Independent Scientologists are free to do what they wish, and that official Scientologists are NOT in any way expected to cut ties with their friends who are independent Scientologists. Reference, The Way to Happiness and Scientology Code of Honor. And THAT is what Int Management Coord Council (when WDC and Exec Strata and other Int Mgmt heads all meet and coordinate BIG strategic moves), THAT is what the movement at the top SHOULD be doing right now.

  145. martyrathbun09

    Don’t hold your breath.

  146. Tony DePhillips

    I am sorry to say but your comm sounds like “beautiful sadness”. You seem to want some perfect little nirvana and others are doing the dirty work and getting the job done. I don’t care how people feel or think as long as they are doing good. Absolutes are unobtainable, I think we here are doing a great job and if you can’t see that then C-ya!!

  147. martyrathbun09

    Nor are all independents the same or of identical state of mind or point of view. The ability to differentiate will set you free.

  148. Warren I believe the Independent field will be highly organized in some regions, and also will be creating auditors in volume. If 500 people attended a friday graduation how established would that feel? The Independent field is the only thing ensuring the formal church survives, and it will survive because of us and not in spite of us in my opinion.
    I’m a big fan of the formal church and the Sea Org and I think they’re necessary. Management will take back the reins to the degree they get standard, that part is in their hands.

  149. I hope you will keep us all informed of time and place so my wife and I can send you students. We still have a number of contacts in that area who can’t make it up here for training but are interested in becoming auditors.
    Wishing you all the best with the project.

    As a failed purpose rekindler to those who lost their goal to be a good auditor and help others, remember what Ron said in the policy, Instruction and Examination, Raising the standard Of, “The basic reason students remain long on courses stems from inept criticism by instructors regarding what is required.”
    Once the inept crtiticism is off the line, students easily complete auditor training courses in check-sheet time, to a good result.
    Knowing Jim, he’s not inept.
    Get trained. It’s not only half the gain, it’s a lot of fun.

  150. I got one of those amateurish “d.a.” emails, too. I think I’ll send Marty some money for Christmas, as well! Seems like a truly “appropriate acknowledgement” to the slander attempt, not to mention Marty’s good works.

    Merry Christmas, Marty!


  151. Love the responses…can OSA say BACKFIRED! LOL

  152. Well Scott,
    but it also had a positive factor.
    DM`s gestapo-valenced minions got me to confront that I was undermining my integritity big time.
    I probably still would be there (- gruesome thought-) applauding at events, secretly suppressing my thoughts about: What happened to Heber J. and some other senior terminals -as if there would be a black hole they were disappering into ( later I found out , that there really was existing A HOLE), shouldn´t be OT9& OT10 out by now, why is nobody talking about the Universe Corps anymore (didn´t LRH want the staff too to go OT), why is the Tone level of the groupe artifically (social) held up but actually going down, wasn´t the ARC much bigger when I joined Scn.? What´s going wrong ?
    I got the answers now. I´m free to think and to communicate what I think.Thanks to the Independents and their tireless contributions the “thought stop” is dispersing.

  153. Last time I saw DM was at the Sandcastle in ’98 with his spiffy coiffed ‘do, shiny green multi-level marketer suit and super-cobbled executive shoes. Even then he was literally surrounded by an actual circle of fawning female RTC staff, no one over 30, all standing at attention, smiling all google-eyed-like at him.

  154. You’re right of course.

    The only thing I’ve been right about, these last 6-7 years, is predicting MORE ex members speaking up.

    The ex member trend speaking up tradition is gonna continue.

    Thanks again for this blog. You’ve made it hugely safer for whomever next exits Int to speak up.

    It’d be nice if Shelly found her way OUT of the mess and told her story.

  155. What’s an IP law?

  156. Scott Campbell


    In my opinion, that passage in SOS is regarding the role of the sexes is one of the most beautiful things ever written by LRH.

    I can attest to it’s veracity as my wife is the living embodiment of those sentiments. Nothing less than the future survival and prosperity of mankind depend on how faithfully we adhere to these words of wisdom.

    Thanks for posting this. It was a breath of fresh air for me.


  157. Scott Campbell

    You’re fuckin’ crazy.

  158. Sam,

    The subject of Mary Sue and DM’s hatred for her is one that I hope more light can be shed upon in the future, by those who were there. How she could have died in 2002 without so much as a brief mention in any church publication, is shameful. And I understand that her name was removed from the Patron rolls, in a shameful act of Damnatio Memoriae.

    That alone should have prompted DM’s removal from position and expulsion from management office for life.

    Wow, DM – Damnatio Memoriae. Funny how those initials are so fitting.


  159. Put some extra work in maintaining ARC with them I think.
    Make sure they really get your viewpoint.

  160. Freedom Fighter

    Each one of these incidents is just one more nail in DM’s coffin. There’s no way he’s going to be able to hide behind these PIs or the lawyers as, when it comes down to it, they all work for him. Just follow the money. The light is being shined brightly and soon the cockroaches will be caught in a trap they can’t wriggle out of. It won’t be long now; I can feel it.

  161. Like Hallelujah, I don’t have the PAB’s or HCOB’s. Maybe at some point I’ll pick them up on eBay or something.

    It doesnt violate copyright to quote something for discussion purposes does it? I dont think so.

  162. Do you know how some people are very respectable people? Like a scientist from Intel that gives a speech about what kind of capabilities will be built in to next years computer processors to further enhance the home and business computing experience for end users? People like that, some people will STOP dead in their tracks and listen to. The information pertains to them, to life, to living.

    David Miscavige is not a respecatable person. He is not a person that normally naturally commands the attention of others by his sheer intellect or wisdom. He is just a character, a face, from the Church of Scientology that speaks very little if any information that is of true value or use to anyone but yet expects, demands and tries to enforce the same kind of respectability from others that an Intel scientist might get, that he is not entitled to. It just doesn’t work in the real world. It just doesn’t work at all.

  163. Personally I never considered Miscavige all that “brilliant” and his ascension so amazing.

    If you wanted to destroy the entire Scientology network and not leave any finger prints behind he’d probably be your best candidate.

  164. Yes, they love to voluntarily give so many donations that they go bankrupt. They voluntarily donate to grinding intensives of confessionals and recycling grades, they voluntarily donate to huge Orgs that are empty, to books that are refused by libraries and CCHR campaigns that double the pharmaceutical stats. They don’t loose their jobs, bridge, family, income, body, eternity or anything else if they don’t and they’re not misinformed about it, so it must be completely legal.

  165. H,
    Write to me.

  166. WH,

    Nicely said and from the heart. I can only talk for myself and I move around on the tone scale but am generally well above anger (or think I am), although anger can be fun sometimes.

    I’m not an opinion leader and definitely do not consider myself above my friends that are still in or above any that disagree. We are not living in a suppressive society such as some I’ve visited in PT or that we all have been part of at some point. We can express ourselves and can disagree with others. Manners sometimes don’t hold in the emotion of the moment.

    I’ve recently come to the painful conclusion that the church as I once thought it to be has ended. I do not see it recovering in my lifetime. I believe it will recover if the tech is preserved.
    In my opinion to make progress in this direction –
    1) the abuses of people by the CoS and the alter-is of the tech needs to stop as soon as legally possible.
    2) the ARC breaks and implanting of the SO needs to be handled
    3) the Tech needs to be recovered
    4) the ARC broken field needs to be recovered on a one by one basis as Jim mentions elsewhere in this blog
    5) at some time in the future it will come together again in the sunlight

    Right now the situation is very fluid and probably will be for a few years.

    If you care to, hang in and contribute where and when you can.


  167. Les,
    These are pre-GAT checksheets, side-checked by competent Tech Terminals. When I trained auditors it was a couple of weeks per Acad Level, applying Instruction and Examination: Raising the Standard Of.

    There’s going to be a Hard TRs course too. Again, when I did, and then Suped TRs at Flag (and I’ve had video passes by LRH trained terminals) it was a couple to a few weeks to DONE.

  168. Scott,
    That’s why I switched all the pairs of shoes at the Buddhist monastery putting the left ones on the right and the ‘right’ ones on the left. Threw the whole place into a free-for-all with a wild bloody melee of chick peas flying and chipmunks running for cover.

    My bad, or good, dependin’ on how you consider it all.

  169. Karen B,
    Yes OSA can say that. It sounds like DERIFKCAB. Pretty funny when you hear it actually…DERFIFKCAB.

  170. intellectual property

  171. Intellectual Property, something like copyrights or patents.
    A friend of mine wrote a book on it.

  172. The only thing that should be illegal is the initiation of violence, theft and fraud. A man has a right to act stupid, and others have the right to facilitate his stupidity.

  173. At least you have the pleasure of knowing you are costing DM a LOT of money (that he is increasingly unable to replace) while still having NO EFFECT.

  174. “There is a certain type of argument which, in fact, is not an argument, but a means of forestalling debate and extorting an opponent’s agreement with one’s undiscussed notions. It is a method of bypassing logic by means of psychological pressure . . . [It] consists of threatening to impeach an opponent’s character by means of his argument, thus impeaching the argument without debate. Example: “Only the immoral can fail to see that Candidate X’s argument is false.” . . . The falsehood of his argument is asserted arbitrarily and offered as proof of his immorality.

    In today’s epistemological jungle, that second method is used more frequently than any other type of irrational argument. It should be classified as a logical fallacy and may be designated as “The Argument from Intimidation.”

    The essential characteristic of the Argument from Intimidation is its appeal to moral self-doubt and its reliance on the fear, guilt or ignorance of the victim. It is used in the form of an ultimatum demanding that the victim renounce a given idea without discussion, under threat of being considered morally unworthy. The pattern is always: “Only those who are evil (dishonest, heartless, insensitive, ignorant, etc.) can hold such an idea.”

    You are a fallacy.

  175. My Dear Marty
    I just put a Christmas card in the mail for you with your Christmas Bonus!

    I would also like to say that everytime I get an “anonymous” email like that last one, attempting however pathetically to dead agent, slander or malign you, I will be putting another check in the mail. Anyone else who would like to play this game that Your Humble Servant has started, please do! Who knows, we may “create a flow,” and I’ve been told that’s a pretty powerful thing!




  176. And,
    😉 Nerak

  177. Moving Forward,

    I post this in response to actions like the Allender guy attempting to intimidate someone because they went to an Independent Scientologists for services. The current C of S cannot force its interpretation onto someone who doesn’t want to be part of that group. Other crimes require action against ones body, possessions, etc. The definition of Hate Crime is specifically that – one disagrees with their thoughts and beliefs.

    Another example would be if you worked at a business with other current Church members. You decide to be independent and are harassed for that. The church can simply shun you. They lose the right to go into the public arena and harass you because you don’t believe as they do.

    I always agree that open communication is best. Someone approaching a lady and asking if they like beatings is NOT open communication. A PI showing up at Marty’s CPA’s home on a Saturday evening demanding answers to questions is not open communication.

    I fully agree with protestors. I don’t agree with creepy PI’s or people harassing one for their belief or non belief. I think you and I actually agree on this cycle, but legally it falls under the definition of a Hate crime. Anonymous is not a hate crime, harassing one at their home or work because the person no longer has the same belief is a different issue entirely. Even a PI “working” under a “lawyer” does not side step the hate crime issue. Investigation is not equal to harassment. I am talking here about harassment for your beliefs.

    I, too, would always defend one’s right to disagree and say they disagree. Please don’t take my post to mean I don’t find this right any less defensible.

  178. Jimbo,

    Sometimes you remind me of Dennis the Menace.


  179. martyrathbun09

    You have about worn out your welcome, having deterioted down to using unbecoming names to label people of good will.

  180. martyrathbun09

    Link removed. If you want to post it here, will need a better introduction.

  181. lol, whatever. Fuck this blog.

  182. Well said Scott. I agree completely. Selfless altruism taken to extremes is destructive to all dynamics. I believe that the “messiah mentality” is nothing more than a trap using a thetan’s good intentions toward others to overwhelm him. How can anyone save “humanity” if he cannot even save himself from an unhappy existence.
    The power of simplicity must be applied here. We are all communication terminals who inflow and outflow every moment of every day. What we chose to inflow and what we chose to outflow determines what kind of life we have. It is not selfish to live the life you would have others live.
    The ancient Greeks extoled a value they called “Arete” which has been translated as “Virtue”, “Excellence”, “Goodness”, “Being the best you can be” or “Achiveing ones highest potential”. If each and every sentient being appied this ideal to his/her life, the world would begin to be the place we all wish it to be. Behavior which is admired is emulated and produces the “pleasure” which life seeks from its material exixtence.

  183. Scott Campbell

    Chu-Hua Zhu,

    That type of argument falls under the category of Ad hominem attack. It is the preferred method of debate for the intellectually unarmed.

    It has been used since time immemorial to thwart efforts to change by reason.

    Whatever your reason is for posting this here remains unclear.


  184. Thanks KA, you made my day! Glad it helped.

  185. Hi Sam
    I could be wrong but I believe the name is “Jean-Yves Besnard”

  186. Okay you guys are both right.

    It’s just a matter of terms and language.

    Miscavige or anyone else does not have the right to harass anyone because of their religious beliefs or lack of them.

    This concept has been enshrined in our First Amendment at the beginning and is enforced in Civil Rights legislation of the ’60’s.

    What they are doing is still a crime whether you call it a “hate crime” or something else.

  187. Scott Campbell

    Chu-Hua Zhu,

    Ethics is one’s rationale toward the most optimum survival along all the dynamics of existence. Is your rationale that the only things that should be illegal “is the initiation of violence, theft and fraud” ethical?

    And by the way, what is your definition of fraud?

    A more logical solution to stopping unethical behavior would be contained in the solution below.

    “When the individual fails to put in his own ethics, the group takes action against him and this is called justice” – LRH

    That is what this group is doing. Taking action against unethical individuals.

    Any questions?


  188. Windhorse,

    I understand. I differentiate moving through anger and being angry. When I move through anger and spot what I did or why I feel this way, I make changes to handle, and move on.

    I have appreciated your input into this blog. You have helped make this community what it is. From my viewpoint if you choose to be inactive I accept that. If you choose to return and interact I will accept that. I respect your integrity in your own decisions. I grant you the beingness and right to your own life.

    We are all different and – yes, how it changes the world, will be up to each of us. I wish you a happy holiday season and may peace reign within you. Anytime you wish to chat just look me up. My heart is always open to those who have walked with me on my journey. Until our paths cross again, thank you for being you.

  189. Scott Campbell


    Nicola Tesla would have laughed if he could see the mathematical calculations that went into your experiment in disrupting resonant frequencies.


  190. martyrathbun09


  191. Freedom Fighter Great song!!!
    One of my favorites. 🙂
    I can Feel it too!!

  192. Scott Campbell


    You are one of those strong individuals who managed to remain at CAUSE even under supression.

    As soon as Karry saw your first post she said, “Good for her, I always liked Karola. And laughing – “Man, that was one tough chick”.

    I agree. And don’t try to deny it because of false modesty, you had to go through a lot to get to where you are now. You deserve every happiness that life can bring. I mean that.

    L, Scott

  193. Centurion and Sam,
    How Mary Sue was wiped from history and ignored in her passing was one of the main acts which caused me to start down the path of questioning what the group was doing, why I was part of that group, and resulted in my posting here as part of this group. Mary Sue was a major supporter of LRH her entire life – in all of her org positions, held over the years, and she should have been recognized as such. Not even a mention in the Auditor mag. I found the data with an internet search.

    Another major factor was the razor fence to forcefully control and confine those SO members put into the Int RPF. No matter what the person did, no being on earth deserves to be trapped and held in such a manner. Then to be on the RPF until a 3 swing FN on any disagreement with DM, RTC, etc. Simply Suppressive!

  194. cHOW hua Poo,
    Say this with a Cherman accent ‘Wery interestink’. See, wasn’t that funner.

  195. Scott Campbell

    Thanks Brad,

    You hit it exactly. Aim for the stars. Lead by example. That is the best way to help others.

    Helping individuals directly is merely an expression of love for one’s fellows. One can only benefit by helping make others lives better and more enjoyable at the same time we are enjoying ours!


  196. Windhorse my Friend. This is the second time I write to you. Because your miss quotations on Buddha. Chariot? Way back than? Maybe on oxen cart. But not chariots. Have you read The Song of Songs? Where Buddha said All creations are everlasting since creation can only be if it created by the purest light which is beauty it self?. Beauty is everlasting which is the Universe it self? Were he said “The darkness undrelines the light and light encompas all creation equally? Where he said there has to be darkness in order to have light. They are equal in order to be, for existance? He also said “Only judgement can alter the original creation and only judgement can create the illusion of good or bad?” Please get your self a new translation or better yet go to the source. He, Gautama, Buddha lives and he is well and a Scientoligist. OT VII. He too reads this Blog and have e-mail address. Different name of course since he too have different life.

  197. Tony,
    That’s why I call Flag the “Mecca of Technical Perdition”.

    a state of final spiritual ruin; loss of the soul; damnation.
    the future state of the wicked.
    hell ( def. 1 ) .
    utter destruction or ruin.
    Obsolete . loss.

  198. no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself,
    no greater misfortune than having an enemy.
    TAO ……
    while the other two sentences in his(Tao’s) quote are Ok , the two above are NOT !!
    NOT being prepared , is like NOT following the conditions, it’s like NOT using force ( a major out point) and is like violating ethics and justice ( where LRH jumped of the fence to beat the shit out of a couple of …..), it’s also like driving with no spare tire, which after all is being prepared.
    Imagine NOT being prepared when going into court ,for the things the opposition will maybe throw at you, or a fighter pilot NOT being prepared for anything that could possible happen up there.
    NOW, maybe, Tao mend being introverted is very wrong,- but said prepared !!!
    and about having enemies , – as long as there is a reactive mind it will happen ,and in fact If you are up stat that is a given – down stat no enemies is possible, up stat no enemies is not possible !!
    Thus it is no misfortune to have enemies , and TAO obviously was in a victim mood the day he wrote this !!!

    Love, Helmut

  199. Sam~Spot on.
    It’s the trick of trying to erase from memory the fact that we (mothers) hold key to the future for old timers and ourselves now and in our future lifetimes.

  200. Pingback: Top Posts — WordPress.com

  201. Excellent expose’ Marty! That is exactly what DM’s regime is afraid of – REAL OTs.

    I think every single person here has felt that suppression on their 2D in one way or another.

    Oh, and the email I got was very hard to decipher, non-sequitur gobbley-gook…sure sign of B.S.

  202. The racket on bed taxes looks like it’s up…
    “Scientology starts collecting bed tax when county questions why it wasn’t”

  203. Fellow Traveller

    Oh, high lord and chairman of the Village Torch Bearers (which I guess makes you the big bic and not the limp wick)

    I humbly accept your correction and will amend my ways and my list.

    Rubber Mallets for everyone! They don’t hurt as bad if you drop them on your toes and they have nice surface area so aim easier. And they don’t rust if you forget to clean em after every use.

    apprentice torch bearer

  204. Moving Forward

    We definitely are in agreement, Sapere — what the Church is doing to stifle independents is criminal, stalking and harassing people like this in a way to stifle their free practice of religion is a violation of the first amendment.

    My only divergence in agreement was over the specific term of ‘hate crimes’ and including criminalizing the use of language and symbols. This is something I feel strongly about, so had to speak up.

    I do believe that harassment such as Marty and Lori wrote about warrants legal action and documentation is very important. Restraining orders are possibly a good first step, not sure how they would work against PIs, but could maybe be effective against cats like Allender.

  205. Sapere,

    I agree the Orwellian unpersoning of Mary Sue was one of the many straws that broke the proverbial Camel’s back for me.

    Not even an honorable mention or an Obit in the Auditor for a lady who contributed more to the expansion of Scientology than anyone else other than Ron and certainly not Miscavige who has done more to destroy the organization than even the FBI, FDA, IRS and the all the forces of “SMERSH” combined.

    Hopefully his name will have the infamy it deserves.

    Till then…….

  206. Tony DePhillips


  207. Moving Forward,
    Got it – the criminalizing use of language and symbols is what is written in the various state and federal codes. This would be nazi symbols on Jewish sites, etc. It just happens to make something a criminal offense vs a civil offense. Police act on criminal offenses. This is how you get a complaint to stick where the interference is due because you have decided not to participate in the organized current C of S. Restraining orders are usually civil actions and you have to pay for these. Criminal complaints are handled by Attorney Generals and District Attorney’s. PI’s don’t like criminal complaints. I doubt if their insurance covers criminal acts. Attorney’s hiring PI’s don’t want to be charged in criminal complaints either.

    I know we are on the same side. I agree with you on not feeling the code wording is perfect but it is what is there to enforce at this time. Just posting all of this data may make some OSA or PI person think twice before the next stupid interference with an Independent.

    Thanks for being there. You, I, and RJ all on the same side. Sorry jerks(opposition) – you lose, we win.

  208. Scott Campbell


    Politics makes strange bedfellows. Don’t think that this won’t make the county more amenable to the church’s activities.

  209. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    Well Done, Apprentice Torch Bearer Bruce!

    I knew you were a Rubber De-Bugger-er extraordinaire.

    But I caution thee. A rubber mallet will bounce back and smack you mightily (thus be certain of cleaning both sides of your smacker before and after every use).

    Smacker of Crunchy Los Cucarachas de DM – Feliz Navidad, davey!

  210. Totally agree Sapere.

  211. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    The real Dennis the Menace was my aunts cousin! True.

  212. ΘTater/GaryLerner

    The same from me. You’ll always be welcomed in my universe, WH.

    ARC and Love,

  213. Windhorse

    Thank you and I understand your point of view.
    I also aspire to seeing and treating others as the “basically good” beings they are. I hold no truck with punishment for punishments sake.
    I do not consider any being intrinsically better or lesser than myself. One may be pursuing “optimum survival” in ways other than I myself do, but I do not deny them their right to the creation of their own universe, so long as they are not intent on suppressing me or my dynamics. (my universe)
    I have found that in my desire to help others it is essential to let them confront their own universe and the aberrations in it, from their own viewpoint. I do not have to ” go into ARC” with it but in order for them to as-is it they must be allowed, and encouraged to view it, as-is.
    I find that in life one has the choice as to whether they approach any particular situation as either an Auditor or a Preclear. Cause or effect. Interested or interesting. Life seems to be about maintaining a balance of both. Perhaps the great “middle way”. Lately I find myself showing a preference for being the “Auditor”, as I have already thoroughly demonstrated my ability to be a “Preclear. ”

    I personally consider Marty’s other blog/forum, Casablanca Tejas, is potentially more my “home”, but I also consider this blog necessary and quite effective in helping to run out the third dynamic engram that many have experienced within the Church of Scientology. I contribute when I consider I can.

    The thing that I find the most in alignment with my purposes is the association with the community of beings that has and does assemble here. Behind any and all discussion there runs an undeniable and irrepressible current of pure Theta.

    You contribute to that Theta and I want to thank you for that.
    I want to thank you for all the wisdom you have provided to this blog over the last many months. I have always looked forward to reading your posts and have learned much from your communications and viewpoints.
    Travel your path with all your heart and soul and my our paths meet often.


  214. How come that doesn’t surprise me Gary 🙂

  215. Before researching defection trends we might want to look at the learning curve. LRH wrote Policy that got him Saint Hill size orgs and huge mission fields anytime he wanted. Fortunately he never threw that Policy away, just like he never threw successful Tech away. Just because some moron reversed his Tech is no reason for independents to do the same. In fact, not agreeing with the Out Tech of RS but restoring successful LRH Tech is the most major pro survival action of the independents. It’s the very reason that Indy’s are flourishing and conditions improve. Policy is no exception; throwing out successful Policy just because some moron reversed it, is simply repeating the imbecile actions that got us in this mess. You can’t alter an alteris-ness and expect to regain the original. The alterations in Policy have to be thrown out, the very same way that some smart people on this blog did with RS Tech. Successful Policy will have to be restored as it’s on the Sea Org time track and in this Universe no one escapes conditions.

  216. Yeah, great observation, great proposal. If you study the history of the planet
    you will find that lack of proper justice and applied human rights leaded into total anarchy or totaliatarian systems.
    Therefore let me be perfectly sarcastic: I could mock up future times where WOGs and SCNists, are going to practice the middle aged “RUNNING THE GAUNTLET” with baseball bats on every SP -Declared individual or unwanted citicens. Your ideal scene?

    . I think this is perfectly legitimate (to help the people out of their condition)

  217. Thanks, Jim! I finally found your reference, “P.A.B. 91, THE ANATOMY OF FAILURE,” online. Now I understand your comment and concur. Do well with your IS training center! H

  218. Zhu,
    The following is from your blog, right?

    “People can be very forgiving perhaps sometimes even too forgiving. Such is often the case in Scientology. We try to give a second chance whenever possible and that second chance often extends to third, forth, fifth and more chances.

    Such was the case with Mark “Marty” Rathbun. Despite his really bad behavior he was given many chances but eventually he decided he didn’t want any more chances and left the Church. It was his right to do that, no one can force you to be a Scientologist. But then he saw an opportunity to make a quick buck out of Scientology’s huge popularity and his former position in the Church and so began his campaign of lies that culminated in a ridiculous news article (see “Inside the S.P. Times”) and a TV show that really shows how bad journalism can get (see “A History of Lies”)

    Of course, there will be those who, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, will insist that Rathbun’s unsubstantiated accusations are true. Unfortunately for such people, Rathbun just went out of his way to prove how untrustworthy he is by getting himself arrested (Mark “Marty” Rathbun arrest documents) and then took no responsibility at all for his actions.

    This nine-day-wonder is nearing the end of his ninth day and will soon relapse back into obscurity along with his lies and money making hopes. Personally, I can’t wait for midnight to strike.” (http://myscientology.blogspot.com/2010/07/giving-too-many-chances.html)
    I see from your blog that you refer people to the various black PR sites about Marty Rathbun. You also direct people into the Church of Scientology for services, yet you call yourself a Freezone Scientologist. This does not compute.

    So, which is it, are you a ‘Freezone Scientologist’ or an official member of the Church of Scientology? Either way, your statement to which I’m responding is indicative of you either being in dire need of some TR-4 or you just plain suck at espionage and subterfuge. Which is it?

    By the way, this is you, right?

    “Chu-hua Zhū was born to Chinese-American parents in southern Oregon, where she attended private secondary and primary schools. During early high school she encountered the works of Robert Heinlein, Ayn Rand, L. Ron Hubbard and Friedrich Nietzsche and found instant resonance with her strong but until then inchoate individualist and meritocratic views. Through high school she continued to read many authors critical of the mainstream self-sacrificial and collectivist ideologies, such as Thomas Szasz and Murray Rothbard. She became a strong proponent of laissez-faire capitalism and individual liberty, to the point of anarchism.
    Though she has a number of disagreements with the philosophy and organizations of Ayn Rand, she still largely considers herself an Objectivist and also practices Dianetics.
    After highschool she attended the University of Oregon and achieved a B.A. in Philosophy with a minor in Economics. She presently lives in Oregon and works at a luxury automobile dealership.”
    Just curious. 🙂

  219. OTDT, ZHU was an OSA post and beingness from the get go. He/she/It does not exist except as a vehicle to attack.
    Why cut and paste its blog which carries only garbage?
    You forward their attack line.

  220. Nope, Marty let her in. I shed some data on the poster.
    “You forward their attack line” sounds like church-talk. What I do or do not post is not going to prevent anyone from looking at any of the black PR sites on Marty. In fact, I highly recommend them. They give another viewpoint, sometimes amusing, almost always biased and bigoted, sometimes even somewhat truthful and I’m not against blocking viewpoints as it widens one’s pan-determinism and ability to see.
    Thanks for your input, though.

    If Marty wants to block or censor any of my posts because he feels they’re wrong, I’m sure he’ll do so. If he does it on this one, which I’m sure he won’t, then I guess you won’t be reading this. 🙂

  221. martyrathbun09

    OTDT, I don’t mind, within reason. Their stuff is great for an elementary level Data Series outpoint spotting drill. I just ask people to email me if there is anything they don’t see through and sticks with them somehow, so that I may respond. I sometimes moderate out lengthy links that clearly are attempting to get an audience for their ill-intentioned, largely false, and seldom visited sites. I’m not their PR agency.

  222. Exactly Marty…otherwise they’d be completely ignored into oblivion.

  223. I respectfully disagree OTDT.

    Not forwarding the enemy’s lies is not something restricted to Scientology.

    The bad guys have endless funds behind them to publish their agitprop while we have only a few resources.

    From a purely pragmatic viewpoint it wastes time and space.

    It also places other posters here in jeopardy by posting links to their websites because they have cookies to detect who is visiting their sites and from what sites they came from which is good way of burning them especially if they are currently trying to stay under the radar for now.

    Why do you think these trolls post ’em?

    You’re playing with fire here for the the sake of some misconception of the “First”.

    Marty I believe and I have nothing against freedom of expression but if they want to express their point of view they can do it somewhere else.

    That’s what makes this board different from being another boring clone of ARS or OCBMB or ESMB or…..the dozens of other MBs that have virtually been taken over by the opposition.

    Also when you’ve read one of these posts you’ve read ’em all.

    They basically bash the Ol’man then either claim that the tech doesn’t work or can be improved and that David Miscavige is either a victim of circumstances or that he is some kinda messiah enda story.

    You wanna read this sh*t then I invite you to go to one of these sites on your own time.

    Me I’ve seen enough of it to last for several LTs.

    Personally I say f*ck ’em.

    If they wanna get their message out they can go somewhere else and find some other dupe to forward their lil’ psywar op which is basically what they are doing by their overt or cascading surveillance (which is a tactic used by police states to keep their subjects in line and used by some Governments to keep their employees from blowing the whistle) of Scientologists who have left the fold.

    Their whole operation is to intimidate and to create doubts and uncertainty in their “opponents” and that’s the way they view us.

    I like you OTDT but if you want to play that game then I suggest you play it somewhere else.

  224. Moving Forward

    Sapere —

    We’re definitely on the same side, and one of the great things about being on the same side but not in the church is that we can discuss things we may have differences of opinions on, unlike within the church. That doesn’t mean we’re divided — I think it’s something that makes the Independents stronger. We actually can think for ourselves! After all, the “R” in ARC does not mean conformity of reality, which seems to be the way it is used within the church these days.

    The church’s support of hate crime legislation in order to forward silencing critics was one of the things that led to my eventual splitting with the church.

    As for hate crimes, putting nazi symbols on synagogues is defacing property. I get that what you mean about hate crime laws upping the ante on this sort of thing by making it a more severe offense than simple graffiti. And maybe that is called for if it is an illegal act that interferes with one practicing one’s religion. But how about a neo-nazi who stands outside a synagogue holding a sign with nazi symbols? What if he also does this on Yom Kippur? It’s pretty despicable, but it’s not a crime. But someone could say it interferes with their free practice of religion (exactly what the Church was trying to do). It is the sort of thing that could fall under the umbrella of a hate crime, especially if language and symbols are legislated in this way.

    You said “The definition of Hate Crime is specifically that – one disagrees with their thoughts and beliefs.” This is where I think the danger lies. Criminalizing thoughts and beliefs does not make us freer.

    Someone getting harassed by employers on the basis of religion is clearly illegal and actionable. Someone getting stalked at their place of work because of their religion should also be actionable. This is something that seems to fall under that California Penal code you listed.

    You said: “I always agree that open communication is best. Someone approaching a lady and asking if they like beatings is NOT open communication. A PI showing up at Marty’s CPA’s home on a Saturday evening demanding answers to questions is not open communication.”

    Completely agreed; this is not at all what I meant by open communication. This is harassment. And I agree that it should be documented and pursued on legal channels as possible; so if it’s ‘hate crime’ legislation that this falls under, I acquiesce to its use for this sort of thing, but still feel that some of these laws criminalize beliefs, thoughts and free expression (which doesn’t include the intimidation of women in parking lots, for the record) or are headed in that direction.

  225. RJ, thank you for that patient, thoughtful, forgiving and informative comment.

  226. Especially the forgiving part.

    Right loki 😉

  227. Not so stupid it results in self harm

  228. Tory Christman

    There is no greater illusion than fear,

    no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself,

    no greater misfortune than having an enemy.

    Whoever can see through all fear

    will always be safe.

    I know sometimes it takes awhile to get to this point, where you truly
    and honesty know the above, but the DAY, the SECOND you get it,
    your life shall change, forever. 🙂

  229. RJ,
    I ain’t playing a game as you suggest.

    I don’t know what you’re referring to with your “First” comment.

    Following your theory and suggestion, why’d Marty let the poster on to begin with?

  230. RJ,
    With regard to the link I posted, your statement, “They basically bash the Ol’man then claim that the tech doesn’t work” is not truthful in this case and does not apply.

    Actually, Zhu’s blog does not bash LRH nor the subject of Scientology at all as you say, but holds the Old Man and the subject of Scientology is very high regard. The Marty material is handled differently, though.

    By Marty allowing these Zhu types of posts which you say are OSA to appear on this blog, he is obviously allowing communication from and about that realm to openly take place and therefore invites me to participate in a way I feel free to do.

    However, your point about being able to surf the web incognito is a valid one and is something that everyone who wants to be a savy web surfer needs to be hatted on if they’re going to use this tool of the internet as a means of communication and information.

    After contemplating your idea that I could be placing posters in jeopardy if they click on a link and their cookies are captured, does it not seem logical that these posters would be readily clicking around and searching on various links and sites to get information? Or do they not search and only come to this blog?

    With all due respect to you RJ, while I know your intentions are pure on this matter, I think your suggested protective censorship policy follows in the same footsteps as that of the church. The basic idea is nice, but only in it’s initial theory, it’s practical application ripe for abuse and misapplication with tighter and tighter control mechanisms to try to enforce it.

    I have already marched dutifully and loyally down that familiar path and it is one I no longer wish to goose step to.

  231. Loki and RJ,
    Not to be ungrateful or anything, but I don’t need forgiveness for anything. Thanks anyway.

  232. Chuck,
    You’ve made some powerfully accurate points here. In fact, what you’ve pointed out is the sole variable that determines whether any administrative system or technical philosophy is going to be oppressive or highly beneficial to it’s purpose: theory versus application depending on who and how the theory is applied.

    Example: the theory of ethics policy that says make the penalty for non-compliance too gruesome to confront and enforce it, becomes in the hands of a madman, a terrorist operation that thinks the penalty has to include standing in a trash can holding a self-derogatory placard while others in the frenzied pack of miscreants shout and spray water on the person or striking people with blows to the head or stomach, screaming insults and punitive sec checking.

    In theory, the policy of having an unpleasant penalty looming over the horizon for the less than self-motivated individual can be an incentive and catalyst for overcoming obstacles. However, crossing that wide gap from theory to application introduces the variable of WHO gets to call the shots as to exactly HOW those precise points of application, that either aren’t specifically mandated or not officially banned, get carried out.

    As you say, this variable existed before DM and will continue to exist after DM, not only within the official Church of Scientology, but any other organization that contains wide-sweeping and powerful tenets of administrative application.

    You rightly pointed out how the governing factor of an Exec Strata and WDC can act as a preventive agency against misuse and abuse, but if it is subverted as it has been in the C of S, then that in itself obviously is not enough of a safeguard.

    The entire process is perhaps an evolutionary one, if it is capable of taking place at all, whereby the answers and methodology of achieving an ideal organizational environment can only come about by each and every individual rising in tone and integrity to the point where they cannot be compromised and corrupted no matter what. If any being wishes to truly travel a path to higher spiritual awareness this personal state must be achieved.

    If the first time DM or anyone else tried to step over the line by punching or abusing anyone in any way or alter the tech or misuse policy or subvert the institution through misapplication had been met with outrage by all group members along with their refusal to participate, an unwillingness to compromise their reality and demanded proper justice action, the problems of abuse and a collapse of the integrity of the tech would have been handled and the C of S would today be a highly respected and effective organization, actively achieving it’s purpose, with the support of its many members.

    In my opinion, the only event that could possibly save the C of S from itself is if someone inside, respected and competent, would rise up off the floor and gather the appropriate amount of evidence and support and simply use the power of policy and the magic of truthful PR to overthrow DM and his bootlickers and institute a standard org board complete with an incorruptible WDC and Exec Strata, reprogramming the entire scene back to standardness.

    David Blaine couldn’t even hold his breath for that, I’m afraid.

  233. OTDT, You show in your response that you cannot accept responsibility. Thats telling.

    You throw Marty under the bus for “letting her in” and then insist on your “rightness” by suggesting folks read sites that attack Marty.

    I can smell the urine even though you insist its rain.

    Walks like, talks like, looks like, is enough for me. But have a nice holiday anyway.

  234. OTDT,

    I wasn’t referring to Z specifically.

    And I wasn’t asking you to do the two step goose step the required dance step of the new unAmerican philosophy of George Bush (your either for us or against us) ology.

    I’m just trying to convey an idea of the current psycho psychological warfare tactics and strategy in vogue.

    And how it would be easy for anyone to become “troll bait” and play into their game.

    Tory is probably a more reliable source then moi as I only saw it from the viewpoint of being played.

    This attack Marty exclusively (since he is considered an “OL”) is probably a new wrinkle in the overall op with the same objective of creating divisiveness and deflecting any argument away from the Church of Squirrelotology’s failures

  235. “why’d Marty let the poster on to begin with?”

    I have no idea OTDT.

    You should ask him.

  236. Lighten up OTDT!

    I accepted loki’s sarcasm to my over the top comment in the spirit it was given and responded in kind.

    Now if I ever have to explain a joke to you again OTDT we’re going to ship your sorry ass back to comedy school.

    Yes we know your the best comic presence on this board but even a Class XII of comedy and satire needs a little refresher every once in a while.

    So let’s begin with some basics:

    Enjoy 🙂

  237. I get what you’re saying Helmut, but I think the Tao lines quoted have to do with “inspection before the fact”.

    And of course the Co$ creates it’s own enemies daily, in increasing numbers. They are in a “victim mood” all the time and so postulate “enemies”.

    Everything is created twice; the first creation is in the mind.

  238. Tory, Thanks!

    Because one will no longer be mocking up counter-intentions, yes?

  239. Dear OTDT
    OMG! I can just envision DM delivering this. Wild! Very funny thanks for the laugh. Unfortunately, I don’t believe you are too far from the truth.

  240. Too cool, Lunamoth! Great response! And funny, too.
    Just Me

  241. Loki,
    Thank you for the good holiday wishes and thanks for your honest opinion on my responsibility level which you accomplished so swiftly and with such little information, I aspire to such speed of particle flow and competency. Lord knows there’s such a shortage of good quality eval these days.

    I am now starting to become aware of the depths of my utter blindness, allowing me to see through the veil of my fixed ideas. I can’t believe I was fooled so easily by my own confidence, that it was in actual fact just an unconscious thrust to be right at all costs. I too often lose sight of the fact that others who take an opposite stance to mine are not themselves trying to be right at all, but merely pointing out the truth of my wrongness of which I’m so rightly wrong. Thank god we’ve got that one figured out.

    These completely stupid hidden impulses that I have to heave others under buses, I don’t know, is it the particular sound of the thumping of the tires that seem to feed this desire and calm my frayed nerves? I guess I really need to handle that one, too. In my fog I must have overestimated Marty’s pan-determinism as well as his clarification and stance as to my post.

    I’m so ashamed at having brought up the fact that Marty seemed to be inviting discussion on what appears here on his blog. My wrong-thinking led me to believe that blogs were for that purpose. I really had no idea that I was intending to bring about such a foul and blasphemous state of affairs, but I guess the use of another poster’s own words to define them was overstepping my privileges and I should therefore be so rightly pugilised.

    I’m extremely sorry to hear that when you encounter communication that you are personally opposed to it causes an olfactory response of urine, that must be horrible. Whatever I did to bring that about, I am truly sorry. If I post here again, I will take extra precaution to avoid that. My faux pas.

    After thinking about this for a great while, struggling desperately to surmount the dark forces of my solid black rightnesses, I wish to furthermore sincerely apologize to anyone else who should have had their eyes shielded from my most heinous post.

    I was obviously operating over an un-inspected and crippling misconception, my innate irresponsibility level causing me to throw caution to the wind with regard to my failed prediction of the dire consequences. I can see clearly now that if I had only taken more time I could have written a much shorter post, less open to misinterpretation, perhaps a word or two at most, and completely in accordance with the rules and regulations with which I am lower than pond scum for failing to have already been hatted on.

    I assume this means that you will not be coming over for Christmas dinner after all, but I will try my darndest to have a happy holiday anyway, despite being burdened with the continual repercussions of my low responsibility level. I just hope I can keep from negligently knocking over the Christmas tree and setting the house on fire or accidentally running over Santa and ruining Christmas for everyone on the planet. Holy jingle bells, I hope I don’t fall prey to an uncontrollable impulse to throw Saint Nick under a bus, too! Damn, I’d better lock myself in the damn closet, just to be safe, until this holiday engram madness is over.

    I’m probably mistakenly and most likely wrongly and obliviously happy that Marty seems to have not taken offense at my post, but through sheer luck saw it in the vein in which I actually, most likely mistakenly, intended. I hope I’m right about not being wrong about being right.

    Your benevolent tolerance of my black-hearted and putrid wretchedness instills me with renewed hope and inspiration. I thank you for your good wishes and by the power invested in me by myself I forgive you for your eval.

  242. RJ,
    Operating on a now higher sense of responsibility and awareness as to the possibility that I could be wrong about always being right, I dutifully put myself on the cramming routing form you took the time to provide.

    Just in time, too, to save us from this convoluted comm cycle that we’ve entangled ourselves in. After all, one of the things that attracted me to this board was that it was not a bickering, arguing and nattering forum.

    After thorough study of the materials you provided, complete with word-clearing and practicals, I would like to express my gratitude and appreciation. Number of times over material…

    However, to wrap up this Qual Consultation with you, I’d like to indicate that the action was unnecessary. F/N, one swing. I could probably use some cramming on timing, though, if you’ve anything in mind for that. On a turnabout basis, I now have to send you to cramming for a wrong (I’m right) cram. But first, and this is not a C/S but merely a suggestion, is to complete Expanded GITA, which resultantly may or may not put this whole thing in a different light for you. I could be wrong, but I doubt it, as I’m always, always right, except once I did think I was wrong, but I was wrong about that.

    I think this comm cycle would best be allowed to fade into the mist of time, rather than me going on and on about it in ninety-three thousand different ways as to how I may be in actual fact right or god forbid if I were to shatter that illusion and be struck by a glimpse of the possibility that I could be (gulp) wrong!?!

    I’m going to squeeze my forehead really hard and try to see this from you guys’ viewpoint and accept responsibility for my dreadfulness, give the benefit of the doubt to you and your supporter (s) and force myself to realize that my post could have been construed in a way so as to put my intentions in a less than favorable light.

    I will carry this newfound realization onto the future track with me in case I may need it, should I ever post here again. After all, I am inclined break the rules so I’m not sure I can contain myself.

    The purpose of my ever posting on this blog at all is to participate in what seemed like a way to see the humor in the truth about the Church of the Holy Reversed Engram, after having traveled the entirety of that route myself.

    If I have failed in that or strayed off the path through my wayward posts, may my blackened, misguided soul be stricken with a thousand reverse-poxes.

  243. Forgivness is always a welcome thing. Thank you. May I learn generosity from you.

  244. Thank you OTDT.

    Now you may attest to completing this cram.

    Afterwards you can step into one of the Back Scatter X-rays kindly provided by one of Dave’s “friends” at the DHS or submit to a full strip search and pat down by the IAS reg if you prefer and give us every last dime you have plus any gold fillings before acquiring your next Patron status.

    Have a nice day 🙂

  245. RJ,
    I’m most grateful for your acknowledgement.

    I must say, I’m completely befuddled by your statement as to the backscatter machine and strip search and dimes and such.

    I guess I’m just destined to stay ensconced in my dullness.

  246. OTDT,

    Let the following illustrate my point:

    and also add “Church of Scientology” a division of the Department of Homeland Security.

  247. “Virtually Normal Mike”. I like it. A good handle. Like a character in a graphic novel, or in the “Adventures of Pete and Pete” show on the Nickelodeon kid’s TV channel. Could be the cousin of that show’s “Endless Mike” character?

    OK, OK, I’m free-associating and way off topic…… Must have been hit hard in the head by a particularly solid peanut thrown from the gallery……

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