Grant Cardone – Turnaround or Turncoat King?

“OT VIII” Grant Cardone has apparently pulled off the con game of his life.

Cardone has been awarded his own reality TV series showing him in action as an “inspirational” “motivator.”  Judging by the trailers for the show, Cardone passes himself off as a man appealing to the integrity and inner strength of folks:

For reasons outlined below, I believe Cardone has no business telling anyone what inner strength and integrity are.

Grant Cardone is a David Miscavige groupie.  He is a self-proclaimed “self-made” multi millionaire.  A motivated journalist or a half-decent lawyer in a deposition wouldn’t take long to find out that how those multi millions were made don’t quite match Grant’s own marketing campaign about himself.

Cardone has made huge financial contributions to the church of Scientology and its front groups with the stated intent of ingratiating  himself with Miscavige.  He hung around the Scientology Celebrity center continuously wheedling his way onto the lines of celebs. According to a close friend Cardone was driven to be the next Tony Robbins and he wanted Miscavige and the Scientology celebs to take him there.  Judging by the fact of the new series the latter had some success along this line.

Cardone made the Legion of Honor by donatating $1,000,000 to Miscavige’s desecration of Scientology  called the Superpower Project.

Cardone made the status of IAS Gold Meritorious by donating $1,000,000 to Miscavige’s war fund.  The same fund that enables my home to be surveilled 24/7 for the past two years, for Mike and I to be followed and harassed by teams of PI’s and OT Ambassadors (high level Scientologists) everywhere we go with the intent of suppressing FACTS about Miscavige’s felonies becoming public. It is now funding the active harassment and intimidation of my pcs and pre-OTs.  Grant’s grants are funding the active suppression of the freedom of religion, the freedom of association, and the freedom of speech right here on American soil.

Late last year I posted a letter signed by Cardone that shocked the conscience of Scientologists on every continent.  In the letter Cardone, along with some Scientology celebrities (Jim Meskiman, et al) used the death of a long-term Scientology staff member in order to pressure people to send more money to Miscavige’s war chest.   Here is the link to that post:

Now, despite all of the above I thought long and hard about publishing this expose.  I don’t know Grant personally.  And like all the rest of the Miscavige fawners, I always give them the benefit of the doubt.

But, Cardone screwed a very close friend of mine for having the courage to stand out of line to do something about the wholesale abuses of Miscavige and his cult.  Tiziano Lugli’s story is by now well know to those who frequent this blog.  It was told in summary in the following post:

Tiziano considered Cardone a friend.  After the church spent weeks flying around the world attempting to splinter Tiziano’s family, Tiziano attempted to have one last word with this friends to tell his side of the story before he was excommunicated and the DISCONNECTION  policy was put into full force.  Cardone was one of those who DISCONNECTED on the orders of David Miscavige before Tiziano was even declared.  There apparently is nothing Cardone won’t do for David Miscavige.

And even then, I might have spared Cardone this ethics gradient. But, this is not the first time Cardone has acted as a ruthless turncoat at the behest of David Miscavige.

A bit of background is in order.  The late Milton Katselas was one of the most productive disseminators in the history of the Scientology religion.  Milton was the Founder and operator of the Beverly Hills Playhouse acting school.   You can get a short summary of his life’s products at this wikipedia link:

It was through Milton that most of Scientology’s high profile celebrities made their way in,  either directly or indirectly.   Milton was very independent.  He did not run crush registration; he simply did his professional job well, and people saw his success and were drawn to Scientology by wanting some of what Milton demonstrated. Milton was a very active Scientologists until sometime after Miscavige’s coup d’etat.   Milton never bought into the little dictator and his depersonalization technology and culture.  That fact was a constant thorn in Miscavige’s rear end.  When I was Inspector General of the highest church body (Religious Technology Center) I was ordered by Miscavige to study up on Milton in preparation for personally dealing with his “counter intention” to the Miscavige regime.  I did so, but before arranging the showdown Miscavige cross ordered me onto some other high profile celebrity flap.

About four years ago, Cardone was put through the OT VIII eligibility meat grinder. Having quite a history of con and deceit, Cardone needed to do something dashing and daring that would convince church officials he was loyal to David Miscavige above anyone else, most particularly L Ron Hubbard.   Cardone found the perfect head to return to his master Miscavige, Milton Katselas.   Cardone decided to use rumor and innuendo he had heard about Katselas in an attempt to destroy him through Miscavige ethics tech. The following is the text of an email Cardone sent to many Scientologists affiliated with Scientology’s Celebrity Center purportedly assigning Katselas the ethics condition of Treason:

Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 3:19 PM
Subject: milton katselas treason condition limited publication
It has come to my attention that Milton Katelas continues to go unhandled and it is my intention to stop him finally!
The fact that so many have of you have left his school and written KR’s has not ultimately handled this being as he continues to go unhandled and will continue to wreak havoc and spread his abberration until his ethics are put in.   
I am not an artist as many of you, but I know the importance of the artist to our society, as LRH states.  
As I write this email to you Elena gets an email from another artist who says, “I just left the Beverly Hills Playhouse as I could no longer handle the personal life critiques anymore.”  Its a terrible shame that this young artist may never reach for Scientology due to any association she has had with Milton and the disaffected that stay around him.   ” Suppressive Person-a person who suppresses other people in his vicinity.”  LRH
“The true character of these people (the SP) is usually masked in many ways.  there are expert only in deception and can take on any guise.”  LRH
“Three areas of detection:”  LRH
1) no ethics change
2) no case gain
3) no admin change
Milton Katelas, I believe to be even more dangerous than others as he wears our clothing, is an opinion leader to the artist, and suggest that he is one of us.
His ACTIONS do not support that he is one of us!  
The Facts:
milton katselas has made no bridge progress since Old OTV completion over 14 years ago.  From time to time he will get an action done and then disappear again.
milton katselas does not attend local or international events .  COB stated at last year’s event,” if you are not on board it is suppressive!”
milton katselas does not participate in any of the Churches expansion efforts.
milton katselas does not attend or participate in any direct hard-sell dissemination projects to grow our church and make others aware of our efforts.
milton katselas has not made any direct contributions to Ideal Orgs, IAS or any other of COB’s command intention.
milton katselas does not demonstrate being any part of the team of Scientologist who are doing what they can to make a difference.
milton katselas has not gotten behind any of the social betterment programs our Church spearheads.
milton katselas admitted to [salacious sexual innuendo and rumor deleted] 
milton katselas has encouraged member of his school not to report him to Ethics.
milton katselas states that being a wife is no more than being a glorified prostitute and made other suppressing comments regarding the Second Dynamic. 
milton katselas kicked an actress out of his class because this person chose to do a Clear cycle and missed classes without approval from him.
milton katselas has [salacious sexual innuendo and rumor deleted] .
milton katselas told at least one [salacious sexual innuendo and rumor deleted].
milton katselas has encouraged abberrated and out ethics demonstrations on stage under the pretense of art.
milton katselas has people that are disaffected and blown from Scientology working in the administrative portion of his school. 
milton katselas asked [salacious sexual innuendo and rumor deleted].
milton katselas suggested to others that [salacious sexual innuendo and rumor deleted].
Per Ethics Book page 253- “#8- Any person who knew of an outness or crime and failed to report it and thus became an accessory receives the same penalty as the person disciplined as the actual offender.”  LRH
Also see Suppressive Reasonableness
“The greatest enemy of the E/O is the reasonable person. ”  LRH
“Reasonableness is suppressive since it lets oppression continue without action being taken.” LRH
People at the level on the second dynamic (1.1) are intensely dangerous in the society, since aberration is contagious.” LRH
It is my right per Ethics Gradient 13 to take the next action- Consider this a limited publication that I personally hold Milton Katelas in treason to our group!
Please forward this to others that will benefit from this knowledge as it is true.
Grant Cardone
Shortly after sending the above email, the church caught wind of it.  Recognizing the potentially catastrophic public relations ramifications of such a communication, Cardone was ordered to destroy all evidence immediately.   Cardone then sent out the following email to recipients of the first email.

 MAY 16. 2007

This is regarding the email I sent on milton.

1)    Immediately please destroy all forms of the email I sent you. 

2)    Do not forward that email in any form.

3)    Please forward this comm.. to whom ever you may have forwarded original comm.. 

4)    This was not a correct action on my part as it was off lines and should have been coordinated with the correct terminals within the Church.

5)    It is my understanding, that the proper terminals are presently addressing the situation regarding milton.

6)    Any questions you have or information you have should be coordinated directly with your MAA.

7)    It was not my intent to create a negative effect of any kind.  This action was my attempt to better conditions and for that to happen it should have been properly coordinated through the proper terminals so that it is a safe environment for everyone. 

8)    Lastly, I know that the tech of Ethics and Justice written by L. Ron Hubbard and promoted by the Church of Scientology produces a safe environment when applied exactly and when correctly coordinated.

Grant Cardone

Note that Cardone does not apologize for having attacked Milton with vicious defamation.  Instead, he notes “It is my understanding, that the proper terminals are presently addressing the situation regarding milton.”   The damage had been done to Katselas’ reputation among his many Scientologist friends.  And Grant was shortly after awarded his David Miscavige loyalty stamp, went to the ship and received REVERSE OT VIII. Other prominent members (some of whom owe their careers to Milton) followed suit and turned on Milton and forwarded the campaign to destroy him utterly.

Less than a year and one half later Milton passed away from heart failure.  Whether the propaganda campaign played any role in the timing of his death I do not know.  I do know this with certainty.  Milton Katselas was treated by David Miscavige and his minions like every other great figure in the history of Scientology.  That is, reputation destroyed, friends and family turned on them, betrayed, isolated and left to die in infamy.

Turnaround King?  Or is it Turncoat King?

That is a question Grant Cardone – and other prominent Miscavige enablers –  needs to contemplate thoroughly.

At the end of the day Grant Cardone will thank me for helping to put his ethics in.

Or, should he not possess the strength of his own convictions, he will surely find himself in the same position as Milton Katselas, the target of the newest kid on the block attempting to curry favor with the little dictator.

449 responses to “Grant Cardone – Turnaround or Turncoat King?

  1. Mother of Grendel

    Not really a comment on this blog – although once again, Marty, you have blown the lid off another DM criminal – but I wanted to share that I just rec’d the latest version of the AOLA Magazine – now called AOLA News, no longer Advance. Maybe that was to cover up the fact that there are stories about local “Bridge events” … but no graduates and completions list! That’s right, kids, AOLA has no graduates or completions to promote. I’d love to hear the rolling thunder on that one!

  2. Marty:

    This is interesting. I have not really too much R on Grant Cardone, but this posting has given me some.

    No, I don’t believe you should spare such people such an ethics gradient. It would be to Grant Cardone’s benefit if he accurately informed people ON his reality show that what he is attempting to do there in New Jersey is turn people’s business lives around through the use of LRH tech, instead of promoting himself as a one of a kind miracle worker. That part alone I feel is deceptive. One should be able to be held accountable for one’s actions. Why doesn’t he offer the government his services? {LOL}

  3. martyrathbun09

    Good point Lana.

  4. “milton katselas has not made any direct contributions to Ideal Orgs, IAS or any other of COB’s command intention.”

    This one is particularly laughable.

    I’ve never met or known Milton Katselas, but from what I’ve seen here… I’m sure I would have loved the guy! Rest in Peace, Buddy.

    Keep plugging away at this stuff, Marty.
    And cheers for the Aussies and the payback they are getting with Jan E.! Payback is such a bitch.

  5. Wow, that sure was 1.1. Cardone clearly doesn’t understand LRH Tech.

    Not sure how many books he’s written, but I know that Class V Org Staff were promoting one of his books and the book was available for purchase in the Org. Pat Clouden’s book too. I was told this by a Staff member whom I considered reliable at the time. I did not see it with my own eyes.

  6. Yvonne Schick

    I noticed something similar with the latest FSM Newsletter I received. Yes, incredibly enough, the RCS can located Marty and Mike anyplace on planet earth but cannot get the declared SP’s off their mail lists. Any, back to the FSM News. I noticed they no longer list the names of the top FSM’s and their rankings. I’m taking this as an indicator that they are terrified they will put a name in a newsletter just before that individual announces they are out of the church. They know that even amongst the top FSM’s and completions there are names about to pop.

  7. OMG!!!! Another sharp blow to the ribs!! Go Marty!

    I knew Grant and Elena through my sister! (How telling.)
    I sang at their home for an IAS or Super Power event, I don’t remember which.
    He was so puffed-up and self-imporatant it was nauseating. Actually, all the hoytie-toyties that showed up for that event created an enviornment that felt like that scene from “Pretty Woman” where Julia Roberts steps into the Beverly Hills boutique and the sales women shun her.
    The Nancy Cartwrights and the Marisol Nichols and the Jenna Elfmans – all being – just too famous, too beautiful, too important…
    If this sounds like a generalization, unfortunately, it is not. That is exactly how I felt and how it was. AND I WAS THE TALENT!!! LOL!

    He just needs a sharp pin and the over-blown balloon will POP!

  8. You are right! I was one of their “TOP” Power FSMs! 🙂

  9. Grant Cardone = John Gotti with an IAS trophy

  10. What a sickening little pig Grant Cordone is, full of worms. Treacherous, treasonous, putrid.

  11. Wait…..what? First off, why is the National Geographic channel showing “reality TV” shows? Are they getting paid to air this infomercial?

    Next….why the huge propitiation flow to McSavige? Hope for future case gain? Bragging rights? By making “Standard Tech” scarce (as in non-existent) DM can charge a premium for “future case gain”, and if for some reason you don’t “get it” then its because you are out-ethics. There is no downside for DM (so he thinks.)


    Caveat Emptor.

  12. Dumb fuck. I mean, really. Wow. “Consider this a limited publication that I personally hold Milton Katelas[sic] in treason to our group!” What hubris! What arrogance!

    And then: “COB stated at last year’s event,” if you are not on board it is suppressive!””

    Marty, you are so right about exporting the “hole” to the field.

    This is character assassination pure and simple, and there is no way around if.

    And Milton was a great guy.

  13. Another so-called charismatic scam artist! they come and then they go far away. In the end Grant and DM along with the rest of the scum will get what is coming to them!

  14. I knew Milton Katselas. And I knew his products. But until today I’d never heard of Grant Cardone. It is obvious from his “writeup” he’s an obsequious, insecure little twit. Real power doesn’t communicate like that.


  15. If this guy is such a hot shot business man and an expert at turning around failing businesses, then why isn’t Miscavige using him to “turn around” all his Idle Orgs across the country???

    Or better yet, make him join the Sea Org and expand Scientology as ED Int?? Lol

    Looks to me he is a complete DM clone. All “Flash” and nothing really behind it.

    Tony Robbins by the way, made money by talking a good game and taking advantage of weak people who needed motivation but he never really gave them any permanent answers to change their lives like LRH did.

  16. Hey Marty, I think you might have “outed” this new breed of Miscavich OT VIII’s for National Geographic! This new breed of OT exist because they can stuff millions in the COB’s slush fund and unscrupulously attack other Scientologists in good standing because these Scientologists do not support Dear Leader’s Ponzi scheme.

    This new Miscavich breed is not long for this world because the mother and father both died in childbirth. Note to Grant: the press builds you up to take you down. Note to celebs: DM is sinking.. keep your distance or you’ll get sucked into the whirlpool.

  17. Regarding the new Advance Mag… does it still have a “man’s spiritual history” feature article? TIA!

  18. Tony DePhillips

    Marty, you are all over it man..
    The hardest working man in the Indy movement.
    I hope you wake this puffed up puffin up.

  19. Tony DePhillips

    ROTFLMAO!! To the first two paragraphs.

  20. I used to scoff at Tony Robbins, too. But, he is a great guy, and has products. One thing I have noticed in my adventures in the world is that there is a LOT of valid tech out there. I found that my grounding in Scientology helped me to understand it better.

    As for this Cordone guy – well. Reality shows are not really reality, but it would be interesting as hell to see if he starts laying out HCOPLs. Just from the previews, I am guessing not. And he is no Tony Robbins.

  21. Marty, this is heartbreaking to me. Whether or not this horrible slander of Milton contributed or caused his heart failure — surely losing his friends, reputation and although inactive his “church” is a horrible way to end ones life.

    We should be surrounded by loyal friends – lots of them – in our final days. It makes moving onto the next adventure, easier.

    I knew Milton well. In fact, as a public scientologist he was invited to sit on my first comm ev. God forbid I was mortified but he was very fair and NEVER held on to any of what he heard.

    He was ALWAYS bigger than life. Yvonne absolutely adored him.

    It was Irene Dirman who put in a great deal of the policy and “ethics” that others have maligned Milton for.

    Wherever Milton may be now — may he have a life of joy.

    He honestly had a heart of gold and was always very kind to me.

    And who doesn’t love someone who is kind to them?

    Thank you Marty for exposing this con artist. For showing how shallow he is.

    And I second Just Me who pointed out that this guy doesn’t have the integrity to credit who he got his admin and ethics tech from.

    Maybe History Channel needs to start reading this blog.


  22. Opps — sorry – it was Lana Oye who pointed out how mr. motivator errr mr. motivation doesn’t credit source for his knowledge — not JM


  23. martyrathbun09

    Wh, Thanks for the adding life to the name.

  24. Seeking4know

    It is truly disgusting what this guy did. All in the name of a corrupt regime and keeping the powers at be happy with him. Mr. Cardone, karma does exists.

  25. Off topic – I posted this on another thread, but one more won’t hurt.

    Perez Hilton posted a digg at David Miscavige today . . . and perhaps a shout out to Marty!!!

  26. Rory Medford

    DM has hoodwinked a ton of smart/blind people. At what expense? One by one the flock leaves. DM’s castle(s)/idle orgs may look pretty now but in due time they will be transformed into something other then an org. Its just a matter of time. Yeah they have some bucks to keep the party and charades going for awhile, but as all shows/parties go, they come to an end!!!!

    The real question I have is this: How the heck does DM keep people hoodwinked for so long and why do people listen to such a egotistical dictator? He was have some big carrots to dangle…

  27. Rory Medford

    Oops, He must have some BIG CARROTS to dangle!

  28. Marty quite a post. Thank you .

    In my neck of the woods the really fanatical DM supporters are the most arrogant and conceited people I have ever met. These people are devoid of caring – all they care about how good they look in the eyes of DM. They will not hesitate for a second to put someone in debt way above his/her ability to pay back this debt.
    The other charecteristic that they share, per my observation, is deceitfulness. Instead of honestly handling something they try to find a way to get around it.
    These people are mainly OTVIII – and I am supposed to look up to these guys. I don’t think so.

  29. Tony DePhillips

    Some mass on Grant.

  30. How does this Cardone dude know what Milton donated money to or not? Unless a “churchie” tipped him off. And how does he know his supposed sexual irregularities? Hmmmm… could it be from his church priest/penitent privileged folders??

    Looks like a coordinated “fair game” attack on Milton to me. It then backfired and he was made to withdraw the statement yet never apologize for his disgusting, despicable defamation of Mr. Katselas. Very LOW.

  31. Tony DePhillips

    Made me think of this:

  32. Gotta wonder if some of the slander in Cardone’s little write up wasn’t culled from someone’s pc folders?

    Gotta wonder if little davey didn’t write it himself?

    Gotta wonder how the top “scientologists” in the “church” can be such complete and utter ass h_ _ _s. Devoid of ARC, devoid of humanity, devoid of any aspect of LRH’s What is Greatness?

    Gotta wonder just how long the fence sitters can look at this utter crap and still think maybe it might change someday and they won’t have to be in trouble for saying anything bad about anybody they aren’t supposed to say anything bad about? (or neglect to say bad shit about those who they are odered to villify)

    Gotta wonder just how far south these guys have to be to not see the difference between LRH intention and policy vs little davie’s intention and policy?

  33. Wow, trial by entheta chain-email. They’ll be throwing them into lakes and ponds next. If they float they’re guilty. If they drown they are innocent.

    It amazes me how Miscavige has managed to get people working against each other.

    Field turned against field.
    Staff turned against public.
    Auditors turned against their pre clears.
    Higher orgs turned against lower orgs.
    Management turned and working against the orgs.
    Families turned against their loved ones.
    Friends turned against friends.
    And the IAS against everyone.

    Some mightily old hysteria at work here. That’s the Church of witch finder Miscavige for you.

  34. martyrathbun09

    I think Mike Rinder – number one salesman at number one Toyota dealership in Denver – might have an interesting opinion on what this guy is selling.

  35. martyrathbun09

    I think Mike Rinder – number one salesman at number one Toyota dealership in Denver – might have an interesting opinion on what this guy is selling.

  36. GH, It should. He was ripping off LRH at a mad rate and disguising it to suit his purposes. There were files about his operation in Central Marketing. Some others might remember better than I can.

  37. Scott Campbell


    Thanks for letting the air out of this stuffed shirt. Jeez! What a gasbag. Protector of the bourgeoisie himself.

    Miscavige’s public avatar in situ, obviousely.

  38. Mr. Cardone is now perfect company for D. Miss Cabbage®. Mr. Cardone will soon wise up.

    He has a web site:

    Look at all the items for sale, but yet it has not exactly been determined upon what technology or philosophy are these succeses of his being arrived at!

    Very sneaky. Right? {LOL}

  39. Marty,

    Don’t personally know Grant, we were facebook friends until the facebook police came along. His email email to Milton is as disgusting a perversion of justice, friendship, professionalism and humanity as I have seen.

    Will watch the outcome of this with great interest. This is the type of thing that will go viral, Anonymous will probably throw their hat into the ring with their hive mentality. His producer is probably removing all sofas from his immediate vicinity. If Grant is half the turnaround King he claims to be, it will be fascinating to see what he does. A turnaround requires self perpetuating and sustainable change, it requires the ability to weave many win win circumstances between everyone from bankers, through regulators, emploees through customers.

    Will he address this as predictably as DM would, and as self destructively, or will he show realy skill and understanding for his actions and their consequences for his future, even if doing such brutally goes away from the wishes of Dear Leader.

  40. The NY Times did a long write up about Milton back in 2007.
    It can be found at

  41. Marty/Tony:

    This is the same pitch — virtually identical language — used by dozens of people that are touted as”experts” on sales. Every car dealership has their “favorites”and they are all alike. I dont mean similar. I mean identical. They use the same language and same pitch and have the same catchphrases. It is shocking how unoriginal these people are. Seen one, you’ve seen them all.

  42. Michael Fairman

    I met Milton at AOLA and we had a brief conversation about my joinng his class. He told me affably and directly what to expect and I chose to go to another teacher. I have and had many friends who studied with him and had lengthy discussions about what went on in his classes. Every one of them spoke about his no BS attitude, his expectation that if one chooses to be a professional actor that he/she really understand the word PROFESSIONAL. I have used his marvelous book for the last ten years to great benefit both technically and creatively. He understood how tough it was OUT THERE, and it’s clear that he made it his goal to prepare an actor to be the best and strongest artist he or she could be. To learn what this “thing” had tried to do to Milton’s character and reputation is unconscionable! He along with the other Miscavige lackeys. who swim in the cesspool of the present “Church’s” “self -protective” activities – ie recrimination, vitriolic attacks, character assassination, defamation, subterfuge, to name but a few – will have a head-on collision with JUSTICE. You can take that to the Ethics bank.

  43. Perhaps not all ventures are successful under Grant Cardone. Google is my friend!

    In 2006, he was CEO of a Nascar racing co, which was sponsored by Dianetics. has a photo of the Dianetics Nascar racing car. News interview – Grant Cardone with pretty out TRs and stumbles!

    I seems to be very short lived, as Google doesn’t seem to show any success or continuation of that project. This link shows that Grant Cardone as CEO of Freedom Motorsports, didn’t even last a year.

  44. martyrathbun09

    You might recall when I was in Denver I asked you what technique you used that made you number one and you said words to this effect: Get in comm with the customer, find out what he needs within his means, and do everything I can do to find it for him.

  45. +100000000000, Mike I used to sell air time for a radio station as well as do marketing campaigns for dealerships. You speak truth, IDENTICAL is correct.

  46. Mark Fisher

    It’s no wonder this guy is a DM disciple. He fits the C of M role model for sales people making people buy and spend money on something they don’t need. Like IAS and Idle Org donations!

    In my experience as a salesman, the key thing is communciation with the customer to find out what they NEED and WANT and then fitting them into the product that fits those needs AND their budget.

    It also involves honesty with the customer and using ARC to equal understanding and that customer will buy and not only that will come back and refer you their friends.

    The salesman also needs to believe in the product he is selling and feel that he is selling something that is a good exchange between the company and the customer and not a rip off. He also must know the product and it’s benefits inside and out.

    The type of sales in this video is the type of sales I hate.

    I may not have been the number 1 salesman at my company last year, but I was in the top 5 and some of those above me had more cancelations and complaints because they went for the easy buck rather than selling the product correctly and making sure the customer was happy.

    This guy may increase the sales of these salesman, but I would like to see their customer satisfaction surveys to see how happy they really were.

    I am not surprised that Mike Rinder was #1 at his dealership. I bet he did more of what I describe above and less of what this guy is pushing.

  47. martyrathbun09


  48. This is truly scary. I well remember when M. Michell’s book, “How to Choose your People” was taken out of the orgs…, and it was fundamentally on source!

  49. Scott Campbell

    “You can take that to the Ethics bank.”

    Loved that one, Michael. A classic line.

  50. Amy:

    Maybe Milton Katselas was not even involved in any kind of true sexual perversion. It is never beyond corporate Scientology to just make things up about people that have more freedom than they do. To my knowledge Milton Katlselas was not a sexual pervert, to my knowledge, but yet leave it to the church to “somehow verify” that he was! {LOL}

    Thank goodness Amy, none of us are really on the bad side of this church! {LOL}


  51. Spot on Mr. Paine. A Mechanism of Miscavige – turn one against the other. Classic DM, classic Suppressive Personality.

  52. Mark — I agree with you 100%. All the bullshit mnotivational speaker garbage in the world is no sibstitute for a comm cycle, being interested and sincerely wanting to help people. I told many people that it was a bad decision for them to buy a car, the one they had was fine and they didnt have the money for a new one. I would not sell a car to someone unless I believed it was the right thing to do. Cardone and all the others try to beat into people that you can sell everyone if you can convince them with false enthusiasm, nodding your head, getting them to agree with you (you hear how many times he says “You would agree with me, right?”) and the other “tricks” they all use.

  53. Jeez Marty — you have a future in that business! That is EXACTLY the formula.

  54. It seems appropriate that the video clip Tony De provided shows Grant Cardone hustling MEST. The end of DM’s ‘Bridge’ – entrenched even further in MEST. Complete reversed Scientology.

  55. Haydn,

    Amazing parallels.

    But not too surprising.

    History tells is It’s what happens when a religious leader feels his grip on the minds and purses of his followers is threatened.

  56. Mark — You are on a roll tonight. Astute comment!

  57. Bruce:

    I believe it was Ruth Minshull NOT “M. Michell” that wrote that book.

    Ruth Minshull wrote a book based on LRH tech in the 70’s called “How To Choose Your People”, which at one time was offered for sale in bookstores in orgs and then pulled from the shelves.

  58. When Grant Cardone gets kicked off National Geographic, DM is going to say it was all the psychs and big Pharma. The show was dry and not very exciting, or was that the SP editors fault?

  59. Richard Kaminski

    “if you are not on board it is suppressive!” That would be the rest of the human race, then. Maybe they’re just not getting it. Oh yeh, it’s cos they’re suppressive! Now I get it. So the ones on board aren’t suppressive. Nah, that’s not right, either – I know they’re suppressive. Sigh. I guess I’m the only one who gets it.

  60. I was a student at the BHP on and off for many years before Milton’s death. I got to know Alan Barton, who many Scn probably know from his acting work in tech films, but who also ran the school for Milton. I remember Alan telling me about this disgusting email, as well as other disconnection actions from longtime Scn students and friends. He told me about fielding a call from a screaming Bodhi Elfman announcing the Elfman disconnection, and that there followed a mass exodus of Scn from the school. I personally saw Grant’s then-girlfriend flirting heavily with Milton in class – I think that underlies this vindictive email. My impression was Milton was a brilliant teacher, and very much his own man. His own straight unmarried man, and I’m sure he had his share of activities with women, but this is hardly material for excommunication, which I remember Alan saying it felt like. I once met Milton at his house, and he showed me a small picture he had behind his desk of him and Ron laughing together in Ron’s office on the Apollo. You could sense a wonderful friendship there, let’s hope they’ve been reunited.

  61. Off topic, but, re, “another direction.” Regrets?

  62. Barney Rubble


    I have known Irene for 32 years and I can say she threw Milton under the bus who supprorted her for her after (SO) life. I will still love Irene.

    Get up with the times.

  63. The truth is never too steep an ethics gradient.

  64. Furthermore, I’ve been in sales, mediation and conflict resolution all my life lastly as an executive in Beverly Hills. I don’t know of anyone that would want to do business with a guy like this. I looked at the clip for his show, he has NO ARC and people watching television are not going to like him. His whole training pitch also in the above youtube clip is a lesson in treason conditions.

    Selling is actually very easy. It is not about covert tactics (1.1) or using your influence to over ride someone’s determinism.

    It is simple ethics.

    Find out what is wanted and needed. Do and/or produce it. That is all it is.

  65. And to do that successfully, you have to care about the guy in front of you.

  66. Tony Dephillips


  67. I love that book – I have a copy or two in my archives.

  68. No, they have no stats, no “OT Phenomena”, and no “man’s spiritual history” articles. Just a handful of some “OT successes”.

    I haven’t seen an AOLA “Advance!” mag since August 2010. In that issue, one Clear had been made (and that covered a five month period between May and August 2010).

    My guess is that AOLA has crashed big time.

    For ASHO, I just got the most recent “The Auditor” magazine. No Clears had been made since the earlier issue from April. One Clear had been made in April and one Clear had also been made per the prior issue in March.

    At ASHO, there was one Class IV intern made this year (2011), and no Class VI’s or Class VIII’s made. In 2010, there were three Class IV’s made and two Class VI’s.

    Per the Church’s own magazines, the stats seem to have pretty much crashed across the board at AOLA and ASHO in the last couple years.

  69. Grant is part of a breed and class of sales and motivational gurus who put people into a manic state and push them out of valence. Tony Robins is the perfect example of this.
    Put them into a manic state, force them to adopt a ‘winning’ valence, and they leave feeling ‘electrified’. Good luck trying to maintain that for long. It works at the retail, high churn employee level though where you need a bunch of zealots running around pitching your wares.
    Another class are the Zig Zeiglar’s & Tommy Hopkins types who generally consult a person’s good sense and teach a professional approach to selling. Still relying on gimmicks to some extent, but useful and not malicious. Like Big League Sales, if the end product is good, and a fair exchange is the currency, then everyone wins if the salesman does his job and gets the sale.
    But car salesman trainings are a poor representation of the profession as a whole.
    At the higher end of the food chain is ‘Solution Selling’. Longer sales cycles with high ticket items and corporate buyers require a far more professional and sophisticated set of skills.
    C level decision makers aren’t likely to respond well to some out of valence huckster showering them with protruding eyeballs sticking out of a nodding, goofball head.

    Grant’s a disgusting example of someone who calls himself a Scientologist AND a sales guru.

  70. Famous you say? I don’t think so. They are not house hold names that’s for sure. Maybe Jenna (a little bit) but she hasn’t been in the public eye for awhile, too busy with Ideal Orgs! She’s been forgotten, if you ask me. They are only known in the Scientology community…a very small community! No one really cares about them as they do other celebrities who are really making a difference in the planet. Like the Brad Pitts, Ben Afflecks, Oprah Winfrey’s, Alicia Keys, Ellen Degeneres, George Clooney and the list goes on. Those stuck-up, self-centered bitches need a serious reality check!

  71. Mother of Grendel

    No, but it does have a list of ATMs convenient to every reg in Pac Base… ha ha ha.

  72. Thanks for the video. The “Super Freak” video (“Eat the fire!”) is enlightening, too.

    This guy is a salesman. That is what he is. He is the type of salesman whose job it is to get the sale, come hell or high water. And, I’m sure he does. To Mike’s point, he has the same patter they all have – at that level.

    I was with a rather large, well respected company, and I worked with the best salespeople in the world, closing multi-million dollar deals, and the genuine material is so much better that the “ra ra” club – and the Sales VP’s motto was “Make the competition prey!” with a big-ass cobra! In our business, the sale was going to happen; the question was which firm was going to get it. Our success rate was over 80% of the deals was targeted were won, and they were won profitably (not lowballing) and ethically (we actually delivered value).

    I would actually say give the sales guy a break, but that letter re Milton is so heinous, there is no excusing it. Ever.

    By the way – he is selling posters, books, and materials. I don’t see any Standard Tech in his stuff. In his “Super Freak” video, he says “Mankind starts at conservative, gets bored, and then straight down to apathy.” and that you need to go to the “place of fear.” MIght be paraphrasing a bit. He wouldn’t be squirreling, would he?

  73. “False enthusiasm” Yes, that’s exactly what it is. How many times did we fall for that bullshit when the regges tried to shove a new release down our throats with that fake ass smile?… VOMIT!!!

  74. Yes, that “If you’re not on board it’s suppressive!” is a wonderful whip to crack over the head of anyone who is not sacrificing all to the reges, doing every off-policy action ordered by a senior, agreeing to every alteration of tech invented by DM. “You either agree with everything I say or you are doomed!” Not exactly the way LRH used to put it, huh?

  75. Robert Earle

    Since most reality shows are devoid of reality it does seem to fit that he (Grant Cardone) be part of one.
    If his e-mail regarding Milton is representative of his grasp of LRH materials then it’s no wonder he needs instructions (verbal tech) from DM. The LRH ref he supposedly used.(HCO PL 29 APR 65 III ETHICS REVIEW) contains levels of ethics actions. These actions are those undertaken by the ethics(or more correctly justice) function of HCO. “level 13 ” assigning a lowered condition by limited publication” (ie HCO issues a condition assignment to dept 12 personnel that it is assigned emergency.As compared to level 14 “assigning a lowered condition by broad publication.” (ie HCO issues to all staff that dept 12 is in emergency.) What this idiot issues is apparently third party as it doesn’t appear that it was written to go to Milton at all. So besides being off origin for the PL issue he is apparently using ,he isn’t HCO, he also not doing a limited publication nor is it directed to the correct receipt point Milton. His statement in his second e-mail “It was not my intent to create a negative effect of any kind” (He is either the most stupid ass at estimating the effects he causes that I’ve ever seen and/or he is just an out and out liar. Note: At the time of writing of the 29 Apr65 PL the only conditions were those contained in the 5 conditions tape.(EM/Norm/Aff/Power/powerchange.)
    This guy is a “perfect” administrator a la Miscabbage. A real powerhouse of confusion.
    I can’t wait to catch the next “turncoat” show. Will it be where he “gets the business owners ethics in by slapping them accross the face and making them stay in the office for a few weeks.” Could be be a big stat week for DM .# Public introduced to Cabbageology

  76. Now you have me going Marty-In 1986 I worked at Sterling management as a salesperson. I wanted to open a field practice and learn how to sell. OMG! The key terminals involved were Greg Hughes, Randy Emery and Revein Marcus. And also in the picture, Lyn Irons. Big players in the WISE arena.I had no idea what I had gotten myself into.
    Greg started Sterling. Greg was a geeky ex dentist who found Revein, a major “shark”, his mentor. Randy, another “shark” was his main salesperson. Talk about the whole”used car salesperson” mentality. Many overts committed to make a sale, such as lying and crush selling-with an overall attitude that the prospects were suckers.
    In the short time I was there I was the one with the lowest refund rates, because I didn’t lie and I cared about the people.
    I know about characters like Grant. I have tried writing KRs on the above mentioned terminals and some other “successful” , but unethical guys in the Church. Nothing happened at all. They just put too much money in-they literally can buy their way out. But “ethics” would be slammed in on others who just sneezed.
    But what do these guys get with all their money? Squirrel tech and the love of a psycho!

  77. I worked with Bodhi Elfman at Golden Era Productions while shooting a tech film. Out of 20 something actors he was the only one with a self-important attitude. I remember all the actors wanted to play the game Gestures and we all gathered in the Lounge to play, not only did he not want to play, but he demanded that we don’t play in the Lounge because he was reading in there. Jim Meskimen and Christopher Smith “handled” him. All the actors were asked to hang out in the Lounge while the crew prepped for the next shoot, so the casting director at that time, provided us with board games to keep us occupied. Little Bodhi Elfman didn’t want to play so he cried and pouted like a little girl while all the actors played a game of Gestures and had a blast! He was a party pooper!

    Larry Anderson told me that he saw Bodhi at an audition and he started yelling at Larry after telling him he left the church. He’s got issues. And that’s a product of a OT VII? Get your money back Bodhi!

  78. Marty: Well done. I appreciate your deliberation, but exposing Cardone’s outrageous behavior is more than justified.

    Cardone’s vicious attack is a graphic illustration of the “target the being” approach too often used by the Miscavige Administration (and psychiatry). This sort of personal assault and broad nullification effort shows a seething hatred of Theta.

    LRH’s great breakthrough, DMSMH, identified the correct target: the Reactive Mind, and validated the basic goodness of the person.

    Targeting the Being is almost always a mistake and often gives the Being a wrong item.

    More Pseudo Scientology.


  79. Just a thought here about if whether or not the Church of D. Miss Cabbage® may have sued her or threatened to after D. Miss Cabbage® took over for rights to the book because it may have infringed somehow.

    Information on the web about this and elsewhere is kind of sketchy, but it would be interesting to know, because that was a book that at one time was allowed to be sold in org bookstores. But then again, auditing used to be allowed in churches of Scientology at one time too, and that has been all but outlawed unless the PC or Pre-OT agree to become paupers from their case gains. Interesting topic. Very interesting! {LOL}

  80. Michael Fairman

    Thank you Scott

  81. Mike Rinder/Marty Rathbun
    I have not read all the comments, I simply don’t have the time. I’m responding to your comments about integrity in selling:
    Like you, Mike, taking care of the customer’s needs mean everything to us in our business. My husband and I have our business where this is our mantra. 3 of our 4 children work for us and the 4th will come along as soon as she’s out of college. It is covered in the LRH policy about “exchange 4”, delivering exchange “in abundance”, which is per LRH how to get into/stay in Affluence. You can cheat but to obtain long-term survival and success there is no substitute for “you and I with our sleeves rolled up getting to work” and man, a long life in business has taught me just how true those words are.

    Grant Cardone sounds like one of those fast-talking, smooth operators, who believe their just being there will resolve any problems. I don’t want to take anything away from him, he’s probably a competent guy, but he’d be better off with a little bit of humility which the cult of Miscavigelogy does not allow you to have. Even Dr. Phil and the mighty Oprah have the kind of humility that allows their followers to let them me mortals rather than godlike creatures.

    Grant Cardone, study Oprah and Dr. Phil if you want to survive in that settting.

  82. I’m very glad you are putting ethics in on Cardone, Marty. Great work!

    I was actually gonna ask you about him once I saw the ads for his new TV show because I wanted more data.

    I read his book “Selling: The Key To Success” and within the first three chapters I thought to myself “My God…..I am the exact reverse of everything….literally everything, this guy says one should be to handle potential customers.”

    He’s a cold-blooded shark, starving for MONEY at any cost, in my estimation.

    I am curious about some more of his past cons you mention. I like the idea of the light of truth being brought down hard on him.

  83. Actually, in DM’s world, if they float they are guilty, and if they drown they are guilty. That way, he avoids the lawsuits.

    Right on on this post. Again, the freaking audacity of one public assigning treason to another!

  84. Really good point you make there Ingrid. When your exchanges are overt products, so are your rewards.

  85. Marty, Independent Texas Ranger:

    In the eyes of a Ranger
    The unsuspected stranger
    Had better know the truth of wrong from right!

    ‘Cause the eyes of a Ranger are upon you,
    Any wrong you do he’s gonna see.
    When you’re in Texas look behind you,
    ’cause that’s where the Ranger’s are gonna be.

    3 feet behind your head, Cardone!

  86. Milton was no saint. Cardone is married to a former student of Milton and was privy to her history with him and other former students.

  87. plainoldthetan

    “milton katselas has not made any direct contributions to Ideal Orgs, IAS or any other of COB’s command intention.”

    Seems like a list of qualifications for rejoining the ranks of Homo Novis to me.

  88. Joy,

    I met Grant at Flag in 1999 when he was a new kid on the blog in Scientology. His FSM was or is Matt Feschback therefore Grant and his brother Gary were treated like king, especially by Charmaine , the Super Power Builiding Reg, who was “taking care of” Grant while pimping some pretty ladies for him. This was all going on right at the restaurant in FH and Grant was served while enjoying his hand picked women. Very sick. 😦
    He used to introduce himself as the “motivational speaker” to us public Scientologists.

  89. Brian Culkin

    I clearly remember Laurie Webster referring to Grant Cardone as “a used car salesman” one time when we were talking in her office at the Oak Cove. She was talking about her big donors. I always felt that was a negative term so I was taken back when she said that to me. Now that I see this post- I realize why she said that. May have just been a slip of the tongue on her part to say that in front of another public, but it was clear that she didn’t think highly of him as a human being.

  90. Lana,

    Perhaps this is the website: as a Dear Loser plant?

  91. scilonschools

    Obviously this Guy (GC) appeals to the vertically challenged as well as the cerebrally challenged!

  92. I noticed especially 2 lines from your post:
    „milton katselas has made no bridge progress since Old OTV completion over 14 years ago“ and that one: „milton katselas does not attend local or international events. COB stated at last year’s event, if you are not on board it is suppressive!“
    Looks like that I am a suppressive too as I do not attend international events. My last one I attended had been in 1992. And my last real bridge step completion had been in 1984. (you know some old stuff that is no longer used in modern Scientology as that old stuff could make you more able. This concept is also no longer used in Scientology as ability had been redefined in „contributing money“.)
    And by the way, Old OTV had not been delivered in 2007 minus 14 years = 1993. Old OTV had been replaced after NOTs came out. They state now that OTV version of 1993 is also the old version of NOTs. Which version is run now? Version 10.4 or 11.8 released 14. of Mai 2011?

  93. Barney: Sorry you jab escapes me. Jabs work best when understood.

    Irene DID throw Milton under the bus, big time. He DID support her and helped her get started when she left the SO – to handle her teenage children, who were running wild in LA.

    She earned a VERY handsome living. She and Jack were able to buy a home fairly quickly.

    You are of course free to love whomever you please. I was on staff with her at CC and I can’t say I loved her then OR as public, which I was as well.

    She disconnected from her sister for probably 20 years. And therefore never knew her nieces and nephews.

    In any case, WHICH times should I get up with?



  94. David L: Tony Robbins, little known fact probably to most on this board, got involved with a worldwide spiritual movement – Hindu based – called “The Oneness Movement .

    There is plenty on the net if you care to learn a bit about it.

    In any case, Tony decided that he was going to bring in Celebs (which he did), build a spiritual place in Fiji for the movement, which he did.

    AND change some of the key words, cause to him they were too off-putting to new people. Which he did. Change who they were marketing too, forget the poor masses the the founder wanted to invite for free.

    THEN he arranged a coup of sorts with the founders son that caused an enormous schism between the father (and his devoted followers) and the nouveau riche former followers and relatives of the founder.

    The Oneness Movement has survived in spite of an attempt to take all the websites and comm lines, in spite of Robbins millions.

    Devotion can’t be bought, sold or marketed. It comes from the heart.


  95. scilonschools

    Tony your wealth of ‘background’ knowledge is awesomely scary!

  96. Tiffany: Grant’s then-girlfriend flirting heavily with Milton.

    Milton was a handsome, bigger than life Greek man. Women threw themselves at him – probably until his next to the last breath.

    And I’m guessing he took up a few on their offers. He was after all unmarried and did I say … a larger than life Greek man?

    But I doubt he took every woman who made it clear they were available, who later felt scorned and ridiculed in his class. Who felt his critiques of them as actors stemmed from his “obvious” upset that they didn’t become an item.

    Someone once said — a woman scorned is kinda like hell or worse 🙂


  97. 1:55-2:21 . Classic. That 26 seconds speaks more to his character than anything else. He fits in great with the sharks at Flag. Watch that clip a few times and remember this man is OT 8- a spiritually enlightened man, supposedly embodying the best of honesty, ethics, and awareness.

  98. Joe Pendleton

    Marty, this was a very important post. It alerts anyone who might be unaware, what can befall one who does not fully go along with “COB command intention.” This has been what Miscavige and his henchman have been doing since the early 80s. Viciously destroy the reputation of people who have dedicated decades of their life to getting people into Scientology. It is heartbreaking to read what Mr. Katsales has to experience the last years of his life. “COB” can get rid of Mr. Katsales, Martin Samuels and the other legendary disseminators in Scientology history and there will be no one to take their place. I have my own theory about that, which I’m not going to get into much here, but I think that Miscavige probably feels he would still be sitting pretty with a small church of 10,000 members, as long as they were affluent (even $5,000 annually – and this is a very conservative amount, might be 5 times as much – from just 10,000 members would still be 50 million bucks, right?) Just keep the well heeled public in line with threats and punishments and keep raking in the dough.

    And the folks who disconnected from Mr. Katsales? What absolute loathsome beings. Why would ANYONE want to be like these people? They’ve made CASE GAIN? I have tons better things to do with my money and time than waste it on whatever these people have done with theirs (that have gotten them to be the way they are). This post is also important so that anyone coming across it who is even considering whether to get involved with this “church” can GET it and ….run, baby, run as fast as you can away from this group. * note: I am not aware that Tony Robbins has ever treated either his friends and supporters or ANYONE with this kind of viciousness and malice. He is a more ethical being by orders of magnitude than this bunch of coverty evil assholes. And he doesn’t ask for your whole freaking life and ALL your savings (or to put yourself in hock for hundreds of thousands of dollars). Also he was pretty good in “Shallow Hal”

  99. Hmmm, makes me wonder if the little shit isn’t setting up a strategy to transition himself and his cult completely away from LRH.

    The writing is on the wall, he can’t pretend to promoting or advancing Scientology for much longer, he’s getting his ass kicked and is headed for a prison sentence. Perhaps he’s testing the waters, via this cardone db, for setting up his own “new and improved” “spiritual technology” (gag!) that appeals to 1.1s, criminals, SPs, DBs, etc.

    You know, little davie’s homie’s!

  100. Hi Marty. This is making the rounds and I’m realy curious on your thoughts on how this sing-a-long went down from your perspecdtive and Mike R too. The two scenes were DM has you all as back up singers struck me as really odd as DM stands out in his psychedelic shirt. I can imagine DM had complete control over the production of this video. Anyway Anons pointed out how many of those seen in this video have left, blown or are in the hole. We even see Heber behind and to the right of DM in this video. What is the timeline?

  101. dutyfree, Great observation!

  102. Tiffany, Thank you. ml, Laura

  103. Grant starts out his e-mail by saying ” it is my intention TO STOP HIM FINALLY!” I bet that was an LFBD item followed by a slashing motion! Unfortunately it seems he may have suceeded. I hope someone has thrown him in session and handled these types of intentions but, I bet not because, this is probably looked upon as a plus point. In my experience these types of people who NEED to be worshiped are from the same ilk. They also seem to be the ones who “survive” best in the current church.

  104. martyrathbun09

    Good point Laura.

  105. martyrathbun09

    Yes, he directed the entire thing. DM directed everyone wear a non descript sweater; and he showed up in that ghastly Hermes shirt. He is standing on a box so as not to be dwarfed by Rinder to his right and Wilhere to his left and everyone else. The most noteworthy thing about all this to me is the highlighting of LRH at the end. Miscavige has gradually removed everyone of those “friends” standing around him, written LRH out of the script, and increasingly spotlighted himself. He has now turned the “church of Scientology” into the CULT of David Miscavige.

  106. martyrathbun09

    That is one reason the “church” is dead. It has become a massive Third Party outfit – with unlimited personal details of people’s foibles document to use as fodder. If she was nattering about one public to you, what makes you think she wasn’t nattering about you to other public. Miscavige’s stock in trade – now SOP throughout the CULT.

  107. martyrathbun09

    Which justifies all this? Kool Aid is very bad for your mental health.

  108. martyrathbun09

    Yeah, I noticed beside being generally illiterate, he is Policy illiterate. A key qualification to reach the highest levels of DM’s CULT.

  109. This is so sad. I just shake my head and wonder how many good people must be hurt. Unfortunately, this aligns with the morals of the group, a cold and uncaring criminal organization where the highest values are ruthless intolerance and turncoat ratting. I thank everyone here for saying, NO MORE!

  110. martyrathbun09

    Actually, Jenna decided to go for the Miscavige cult inner circle, and like her idol Tom Cruise, forsook her career in the process.

  111. Hey Brian:

    I represent that remark! That epithet is reserved for Tommy Davis and Freedom to use about me!!

  112. I am struck by Cardone’s use of the phrase “one of us.” I recall the exact moment in my “ethics” handling when I could have become “one of them.” I slipped into propitiation and was falling in love with BIG BROTHER, on the precipice of losing myself and embracing DM in all his splendor. I RAN. Turning into THAT is about the most terrifying thing I can think of.

  113. GC writes in his book 10X, that his long time goal is to be the person who donates most to his Church.

    GC you are in Treason to LRH.

  114. TheWidowDenk

    Robert Earle —

    Excellent comment which puts Grant Cardone’s emails about Milton Katselas in perspective using LRH issues. Look at the difference if one follows LRH! This situation would never have occurred.

    As Marty points out, a trained person would not do such a thing. In this instance, the OT VIII went so squirrel, it makes the head spin.

  115. TheWidowDenk

    T Paine —

    Y E S:

    “Field turned against field.
    Staff turned against public.
    Auditors turned against their pre clears.
    Higher orgs turned against lower orgs.
    Management turned and working against the orgs.
    Families turned against their loved ones.
    Friends turned against friends.
    And the IAS against everyone.”

    Just a big ol’ games condition, full of 3P and false reports and HE&R, defying the sense of community which Joy so aptly pointed out in her post of yesterday.

  116. Cowboy Poet

    An inspirational MOTIVATOR, indeed…

    Marty, you’re the best. You remind me of Red Adair, that Texas oil well guy (fire suppression/onsite damage control) who put out the oil wells after Saddam Hussein and his marauders lit em up.
    One at a time, he did…just like you’re doin.
    You’re a kickass sombitch!!

  117. I guess they just couldn’t succeed with Scientology so they have adopted 1.1, dominating implant tech to overpower you into being successful so they can look good.

    Great new civilization they are creating.

    Very theta.

    We made two clears up here last week. I think we’ll just carry on with what we’re doing and leave the implanting to davey and his very good friends.


  118. I guess when Marty pointed out to the Chaits that they could look for themselves by turning to their own cache of old magazines to see the true stats of the Cult, DM decided he couldn’t have any *real* stats out there anymore!

    So, just as he has hidden stats about other aspects of the CoS, I suppose that the reality of the outflow of parishioners is now considered, “entheta”. In other words, reality that cannot be confronted.

  119. Cowboy Poet

    Damn…Pope on a Box.
    Sounds like some kind of new fast food!

  120. Maria Abian

    Talking about Grant Cardone here is all well and good.
    But I just visited the FaceBook page for The National Geographic Channel and saw no critical comments about Grant Cardone on the 2 threads about his show on the account’s wall:

  121. +10 Les!

  122. Aahhh….the price of Freedom in the Cult of Miscavage. To advance to your next spiritual level, you must prove your loyalty by attacking anyone who fails to please the Master. The more you ruin them, the better. You don’t even need proof of their crimes!

    You want to gain more freedom for yourself? Then serve your Master well. ©DM 2011.

    You want an E-ticket to eternity? Ruin the non-compliers AND donate the big bucks. You just advanced to the fast track, my friend.

    What a sick, propitiative game is being played out in this Cult.

  123. Cowboy Poet

    No wait…I remember where I saw them. They were in the grocery stores in some of those Eastern European countries. They were on the shelf next to the Ding Dongs in the junk food section. Had the Pope all dressed up in a Hermes shirt. Believe the target was to indoctrinate the young people over there so they’d sign up in his “religious order” and turn over their passports.
    Yup. That was it.

  124. You’ve brought up a good point – the ORIGINAL OT IV. According to L. Ron Hubbard and his Journal of 1978, RJ 30 -The Year of Lightning Fast New Tech, after one does the NED for OTs RD, one then does ORIGINAL OT IV, and then proceeds with the ORIGINAL OT Levels up through VII.

    The original OT IV Rundown (NOT the OT III Drug RD which is the ‘New’ OT IV) is designed to ensure that the entire Grade Chart up to the end of OT III was complete. It handled any missing points to that point. The OT IV RD also has a complete and thorough handling for any question or Q&A about Clear in that one does the Clearing Course materials CAUSITIVELY. In other words, there is absolutely NO reason in the world to subject a person who has done ANY NOTs, to running NED, engrams that is by New Era Dianetics and Routine 3 Revised, as that is exactly what LRH found was wrong with those who had done OT Levels when they were run on R3R and led to New Era Dianetics FOR OTs!

    There is already IN the ORIGINAL LRH OT LEVELS a complete handling in both NOTs and more significantly in the OT IV RD for ANY issues related to the Bridge up to that point including Grades, Objectives, AND CLEAR.

    DM does not deliver this LRH tech. He on the other hand puts beings on NED and R3R in complete contradiction to the ACTUAL tech of Scientology.

  125. I highly recommend a movie called “Equilibrium” with Christian Bale, if you haven’t seen it.

    Besides being well acted and produced, it is SUCH a parallel to what is currently going on in the Cult, that, well…it’s almost as if the writer was writing about the CofM. It’s uncanny the similarities…right down to the figure called “Father” who is in control of the population. Really, it’s a must see. It will make you proud to be an Independent.

    I imagine little Davey has watched it many times, to see if he can get some clues on how to do his job better (not to give anything away on the plot).

    The movie is available on Netflix. Unless OSA has found a way to destroy all copies.

  126. “An inspirational MOTIVATOR, indeed…”


  127. scilonschools

    I Prefer this version (Link), more informative!!

  128. Hearing this story about Milton, in the context of everything he did for SCN, makes me look at all the thousands of connections and people I have come to know over the last 24 yrs in SCN and 15 on staff and in the SO, and I think I can say I don’t have more than one or two true friends, and even that might be optimistic.

    “Friend” being someone who won’t hear I’ll of you or disconnect from you or throw you under the bus at the whim of 3P, BPR, a suppressive MAA, or that little nasty pig-midget, DM. Very eye opening.

  129. Ingrid, you got it, “Squirrel tech and the love of a psycho” ….well stated.

  130. This is exactly what made being on staff and the SO eventually completely untenable. Or at least made it obvious that I would never be able to do it forever (which as an SO member made me constantly feel like I had one foot out the door).

    There was so much infighting, so much finger-pointing, witch hunting, slanderous cover-your-ass false reports. So much “noise” it was impossible to focus on the task at hand – honestly servicing the public.

    And all this CYA activity was DRIVEN by fundamental fear of consequences, which was an organizational quality branded into every echelon of mgmt by only one person as the Basic source – the dirty pig midget DM.

  131. 🙂 sorry for stealing your thunder Mike.

    Marty- Yes- I never thought about that conversation until now. I didn’t even know who he was at the time or why she was telling me. She was saying how he and his brother were able to only donate half the amount for a status because they were family and they would both get credit. I specifically remember her essentially nattering about that fact and referring to Grant as a used car salesman.

    Oh of course she natters about me. But I also have several emails from her trying to convince me to be ‘the poster boy’ for the Superpower Project. She wanted me to do some crazy photo shoot and be plastered all over Flag because I was ‘so theta’ lol

    So, she can natter all she wants.

    If its not written its not true. 🙂

  132. Hi Marty,
    We just got a wrap up success story from one of our PCs (pre OT) and I was struck by the difference between the tone and purpose of what we’re doing here and what davey is doing in his cult.

    It’s a pretty stark contrast when you read over Grant’s rant, then read this:

    I came to the Life Enhancement Center with hope – hope that was sparked when Mary came to visit me earlier this year. Hope that had eluded me for years in the “church”. Hope that my perception of what I’d experienced during her visit was what it seemed. Hope.

    What I encountered in just my first few days here took my breath away. First, my Clear status was sorted out. I had gone Clear years earlier, but it was unacknowledged and invalidated by the “church”. After my session with Mary, I experienced a quietness in my universe that I hadn’t experienced in a very long time and I felt my cause level surge. After another session, a huge black cloud that I’d been carrying around with me for years was gone. Truly gone. Not just set aside to be “handled” again in another session or beefed up and left staring me in the face indefinitely like so many other things had been in the “church”. It was GONE. I experienced auditing here as I always knew it should be – with auditor and pc/pre-OT rolling up their sleeves and combining forces to handle whatever the case threw at them. Auditor + pc really are greater than the bank – when the auditing is standard and is done for the pc/pre-OT as is the case here at the Life Enhancement Center. Here, hope materializes into reality. I’m still waiting for my feet to touch the ground . . .

    I came here hoping to find some relief. What I found was so much more. What I found here was Scientology. Real Scientology. I’m now exercising my Solo wings in preparation for my flight to OT. My attention is focused on the future. It is mine to create and it is very bright.

    My sincere thanks to everyone at the Life Enhancement Center for making my stay a comfortable and memorable one. My deepest gratitude goes to Mary and Frankie Freeman for the care and compassion they showed me while I was there and for the expert guidance they are providing me on my journey to total freedom. You will forever hold a special place in my heart.


  133. “Heav’n has no Rage, like Love to Hatred turn’d,
    Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn’d.”

    -William Congreve

    It’s not true I tell you! 😉

  134. Here is who DM and the “Turnaround King” decided to deep six: Milton Kaselas “began teaching acting in New York in 1957, and in 1978, he founded the Beverly Hills Playhouse acting school. His many students included George Clooney, Alec Baldwin, Michelle Pfeiffer, Gene Hackman, Doris Roberts, Joan Van Ark, Kate Hudson, Tyne Daly, Kim Cattrall, Tony Danza, and Chris Noth.” Others not mentioned are Jenna Elfman and Giovanni Ribisi. These are quite some products! It seems like no one has ethics protection unless you bow to DM.

    ML Tom

  135. “If you are not on board it is suppressive!“
    Hey DM………..
    Man the life rafts – MEN OVERBOARD!!!!!! 😀 😀 😀

  136. martyrathbun09

    Hee hee…

  137. He didn’t have to act in that

  138. Hearsay, and nothing more. One would have to assume that (1) she’s not lying and (2) he’s not lying for the purported statements to be true. None of the normal hearsay exceptions (e.g., deathbed confession) apply. So, this is just mudslinging with no factual basis.

  139. Marty,

    You ain’t kiddin’.

    Cardone’s books are quite literally so full of typo’s and poor grammar, DM oughtta re-make ’em into THE CARDONE BASICS!

  140. Gary Morehead a.k.a Jackson

    Mr. Cowboy Poet,

    I wrote a little bit of information about this “box” runtchkin Marty states he’s standing on during this shoot in a previous post a few days ago.

    I re-post my earlier post to savethetech here for you to enjoy…. I must say I apologize for my bit of “sudden” at the end of the post. I feel it was, still and will always be deserved so I am leaving it included…..


    One thing you should know is that THE WORLD was built around David Miscaviage literally!

    Podiums were re-built to fit HIS size, not the rest of the speakers who used the same podiums.

    Before he made that change, literally an Apple Box was taken from Cine and he would stand on that during Int Base Briefings.

    Apple Boxes is a cinematography term and tool used in the filming industry. There were small, medium and large Apple Boxes and many of them for the shoot crew to use. Guess which one worked for him??

    A small blip on the history of the Int Base Adventures Radar was how intense the “flap” was when someone realized there was no Apple Box for COB to stand on during Saturday Briefings or SO Day Ceremonies.

    He could never stand to the side of the podium out in full view if he found there to be no apple box. No apple box meant we all waited until one was obtained and placed for him to stand on.

    He always had to speak from behind a podium. A good speaker by the way has the ability to roam the stage and get into communication with the audience naturally. Naturally is not part of his vocabulary.

    I remember during the drilling stage of the new management teams being done in MCI just before they were fired out to the Cont’s,. Each new CO was taking turns using the podium over the course of a few days. There was NO plans for little runt to be there to use the podium during this time until they were sure they were ready to present to him..

    Well guess what, runtchkin (new word btw) shows up randomly and in all his might, steps behind the podium to address the “fuck ups” in the room and all you see is his head and nothing else! Inside your laughing your ass off, outside your obviously holding back laughter but rushing around to find a apple box before he orders it.

    More history you may not know is that runtchkin made it part of the New Cont CO’s training to receive a pass from him on their stage presence. No kidding. This is how far his molding of people went into existing Exec;s . The New Management teams I felt was his way of wiping the slate clean and putting people into place internationally who had his ass DNA on their lips.

    Shit like this you never forget.

    Again, a peak into one of the many blips on the INT BASE ADVENTURES RADAR


    I’ll never forget the obvious clumping sounds he made stepping onto Apple Boxes in MCI.

    It was humorous to say the least!

    BTW… David Miscavige, since you are here reading along with the rest of us, why don’t you give us an update on the following…..



    I know if Sally Jensen went off the radar, people would be talking.

    Aside from all of your other antics you seek to indulge yourself with, PEOPLE ARE WONDERING WHAT YOU HAVE DONE WITH YOUR WIFE!

    I understand MANY of those who still fill the seats in front of you wonder the same thing. I know of many current Sea Org Members who are wondering the same!!



    God Damm it David TELL US!

    As a couple good friends of mine would say.. YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!

    On behalf of your missing wife, I have the right to publicly speak for her, and for that matter Heber’s too, YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!

    Tell Us!

    – Jackson.

  141. Leave the ship to the rats!

  142. Rocio Garcia

    The magic of Standard Tech. Great wins.

  143. And I’m a “junk furniture peddler”… Ahahahaha. A FREE and HAPPY one, too! 🙂

  144. FLUNK!
    If you’re going to create a lie by flooding the show with positive reviews, at least make sure that the time stamps don’t show that large chunks of ‘rave reviews’ were posted at the same time (unlike the genuine reviews for other Nat Geo shows – which are far more balanced and bear unique and individual time stamps).
    Oh dear, oh dear. This really does smack of desperation.
    ” The more lies you use in PR the more likely it is that the PR will recoil.
    Thus the law
    L. Ron Hubbard
    HCOPL 13 August 1970
    PR Series 2
    Go to cramming silly Koolaide drinker. I can recommend a really good cram off if you can’t find one in the C of M.

  145. Perhaps – it could be considered derivative of other works, such as Science of Survival. My understanding is that when Ruth’s books and books by other authors were taken off the shelves, it was because they were not source – written by Ron.

    Of course, Big League Sales was available! And this guy.

  146. Tony DePhillips

    Hey Cat,
    He didn’t seem like he was stretching to get there. 🙂

  147. 🙂

  148. Yea, right. I’ve seen your posts! 🙂

  149. He teaches people to be Spiritually Empty.

  150. Bryan:

    Maybe the GOLDEN AGE OF CARDONE — available in a deluxe boxed set with glossaries, the best typesetting money can buy and all gross alterations made by SP transcriptionists corrected. The 3 book set, available now for only $279 or if you buy 10 sets only $279.01 (everyone should buy 10 sets so the number of books sold is out the roof — I, Dear Loser, will personally get Grant Cordone onto the New York Times Bestseller list…)

    And phase two GOING GLOBAL we get sets into every library, school, university, car dealership, Avon distributor and Indian Call Center on planet earth!


  151. Cowboy Poet

    Take a deep breath, Slappy…that’s the smell of napalm in the morning.

  152. I was struck by the datum Grant was pushing at the beginning. I quote, “When you meet somebody in your life that has more conviction than you have, you start giving up your beliefs. And that’s what’s called “being sold.”

    I really hate this kind of overwhelm in sales. There is hard sell and there is crush sell. It looks like Grant teaches people how to overwhelm people and badger them into buying, regardless if it is the correct thing for them to do. It doesn’t result in repeat customers or word-of-mouth publicity (referrals), so stats will rise, only to crash later on. It is unsustainable. Personally, I walk away from this kind of sales tactic – hang up the phone, go somewhere else, clutch my wallet harder.

  153. Sadly – very sadly I agree.
    A younger and more innocent Tom Cruise – before DM got to him and hopefully the ‘character’ he will return to – acting or otherwise.

  154. Can you handle the truth Tom?

  155. Maria Abian

    I am not a scientologist, so the term “flunk” doesn’t work with me.

    The meaning of my post is this…critics will see this webpage we are on about Cardone, but people watching the show will not know his history unless people here and on other sites post about him where they might read about it.

  156. Let’s not forget who worked for the Feshback’s as their office manager (high level) — non other than Irene Dirman, when she moved from LA to CW.

    Yes indeed.


  157. You mean Ruth Minshull

  158. Well that was redundant! Best scratch both of them.

  159. Good point James.
    From now on I am going to make sure to differentiate between the ungodly supppressive, implanter valence that miscavige is utterly dedicated to, and the deeply submurged thetan that simply must be in there someplace.


  160. Hi Marty,
    Sorry for the off-topic comment, but I just saw the We Stand Tall video on the Huffington Post site:

    There you and Mike are, standing around shorty. I’m not knowledgeable enough about upper management to identify the other folks in the shot, and I would be interested to know who they are and whether they have seen the light yet. Could you or someone else help me out?


  161. TheWidowDenk

    K-zizzle —

    Then Bodhi Elfman must have changed between your story and my anecdote.

    I twinned with him at Flag so he could finish one final checksheet action before going onto OT III. This would have been somewhere in the time period 2002-2003. I was asked to help him out by the course supervisor.

    Of course, I was not a person of importance, just his coach. And, he had on his student hat very well. So, it didn’t take long to get him efficiently through the task at hand.

    I saw him later in the evening and he had indeed routed onto OT III. He was SO keyed-out, SO happy, SO animated, SO-SO-SO spiritual, and SO totally and completely appreciative of LRH.

    It’s hard for me to imagine him acting as you describe, but I suspect different times, different locations and different circumstances have a great deal to do with it.

  162. This is great!’

  163. Another of “no stats” showing is field auditor stats. They stopped showing those about 4 years ago after slaughters in the field. LRH stated that omitted data is the hardest outpoint to see and I’m sure DM is relying on that.

  164. Wow, this is enlightening. I recognize Greg Hughes to the right and a little bit behind Marty in the video.

  165. Mike,

    Love it!

    And let’s not forget about Amway. I’m sure Cardone has had his hands in every multi-level, network marketing, pyramid scheme you can lay your hands on (did I mention SuperPower?).

    I hear the new leatherbound edition of The Golden Age Of Cardone is available for the low, low price of only $1,295.00 Personally signed by the Turncoat King himself. Of course, his name is missss-ssspelled but, hey…’s only your money that really counts anyway, so…

  166. Marty, I hope you’ll forgive me for adding 2 more stories about Milton I just learned this morning while telling my friend (also OTVIII and out) about what you’ve revealed here how Milton was treated.

    He said — Milton was a very classy guy. What was done to him was utterly despicable and those who did not rise to his defense are equally culpable.

    My friend went on: We were twins on the Clearing course (a LOOONG time ago). He invited me to lunch at a restaurant close to the old AO. I had no money and he very naturally took the check and paid with a $100.00 bill – then some wanna be actress came over to Milton and was fawning all over him – completely ignoring my inconsequential friend and Milton’s lunch guest.

    Milton stopped her cold and said Let me introduce you to my friend XYZ.

    Another story. Milton was asked to go to the Apollo (I’m thinking perhaps he did the big Ethics Specialist Course there – cause he sat on my comm ev as part of his internship) to work WITH LRH on writing a screenplay (probably Revolt of the Stars).

    When Milton returned to LA — he called Robert F. Lyons (probably still in, don’t know) and said — you’ve GOT to listen to this tape.

    It was Milton AND LRH brainstorming the screenplay — cutting each others comm right and left. Milton cherished that time and that LRH was so REAL!!! Both saying — listen to this — no listen to this etc.

    Yup — Milton was one of a kind.

    May he continue to always be a bright shining star.


  167. Wow !
    That sounds interesting and makes sense. Will we hear more about it ?

  168. I’m a fan of NatGeo. (Anyone watch the Dog Whisperer with all of those crazy dogs who run roughshod over their owners?) However, these new types of shows where the business guru comes in and, in a matter of a week, turns things around I find suspect. I wonder what happens when the guru leaves and customers are not attracted by the presence of the television personality and the film crew. Now that I know about the unethical actions of its star, I don’t think I could stomach watching the show spin Cordone’s skills. Cat is right. He teaches people to be spiritually empty, all in the cause of getting the sale, or in the case of CofS remaining in good favor of Scn Management.

    Cordone’s email is really enlightening. He lists everything that a person has to do to appear “on board.” I could never achieve everything he lists. I don’t think I would want to. A taste of the poison was all I needed. However, I have really felt alone in my observations. I have tried to explain to people why I didn’t feel safe on org lines, or my belief that the tech was being altered in its repeated re-packaging, that Scientology was being priced beyond the means of the vast majority of people in the world and becoming more and more elitist. After 30 years of full time work for Scientology, I suddenly found myself considered scum. What kind of organization treats its people like this? I don’t agree with everything that is said on this blog, but I do feel that hearing others speak about what I see is such a relief. Thank you to all that read and communicate on this blog and other websites.

    Referring to parishioners as Koolaid-drinkers is alarming, and maybe calculated to be so. The mass suicide of Jim Jones’s followers is a 3rd dynamic engram of major proportion for those that lived in the SF Bay Area at that time. It happened just prior to the assassinations of beloved Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk and was a causative factor in their deaths. I worry that DM’s actions will get much worse as time goes on.

  169. Off topic but I couldn’t help but notice in the video Mitsu Too posts that LRH is reading from a book (close to the end of the video).

    Could this be one of the books that “transcribers” had changed and LRH failed to notice, again and again and again?

    Another foot bullet?

  170. dear Marty,

    Tic..toc..toc..tic.toc and here’s the next blow:
    In swiss television, also the German TV will interview him:

    and he wrote a book about his story that CRS wasn’t willing to help him when he needed help and it’s newly on the market here.
    It gives a good reality about what’s going on in German speaking countries. Nobody wants to be connected to Scientology its such bad PR.

  171. scilonschools

    I think spiritually DEAD is nearer the mark!!!

  172. martyrathbun09

    Your data tracks with his many friends who have contacted me on back channels since the post.

  173. one of those who see

    Wonderful!!!! Mary and Frankie, both trained under LRH. And all these years have continued to apply Scientology with the intention of restoring freedom and joy to beings. Well done to them and well done to their PC too!!

  174. My understanding is that Ruth M. was part of the mass exodus in the early 80s, after the Mission Holder’s conference. She had been a prominent Mission holder in the Ann Arbor, Michigan area.

  175. one of those who see

    Yes. For some reason the video is circulating on the web. Watching it brought tears to my eyes. It is very theta. Great song. All those familiar faces-most of whom (Ray, Heber, Marc etc..) we don’t get to see anymore, as they are kept hidden away. And many that we are in comm with right here at Marty’s!

    Another piece of Scientology history that can no longer be shown to Scientologists in the church! The library of banned films and videos must be getting quite large.

  176. Brian, I thought the same thing when I saw that bit of the clip too. The guy blatantly and proudly admits to deceiving people, and thinks this is something to be admired. What a complete reversal of everything that embodies greater awareness and ethics.

  177. Fair enough.
    Then tell them. Or are you waiting for someone else to do it?

  178. Good analogy, GH — the float (guilty) / sink (innocent) thing.

  179. “Target the being” – spot on. That is a huge differentiator between Ron and Mr. David Miscavige. (Notice no one calls him “Dave?”)

    In Ron’s world (i.e. Scientology), when you get off overts in session, they are off. The being is relieved, and he is rehabilitated. The issues gotten off are no longer issues. As Ron said “We don’t CARE what he did!” (BC Tape circa 1961 or 2) The key tenet of Scn is that beings are basically good.

    In Mr. David Miscavige’s world, Sec Checks are a source of blackmail material. Notice how he and his crone’s bandy about folder material and ethics file material (which are supposed to be priest/parishioner privileged) as if the problem that was HANDLED is still extant?

    Joe Blow bought illegal diamonds (to borrow from the Jo’burg 🙂 ). He fully completed the Jo’burg (in 1990, say) and as a result his responsibility level is rehabbed, and he is a productive, honest being. Doesn’t matter to Mr. David’s church – he is still a diamond smuggler, 21 years after the fact. You only have to LOOK AT MINERVA’S blog and the so-called “Freedom” magazine articles to see this is the case.

    Because of this, they are admitting they are not using standard tech – no one ever gets handled in their world! There is no such thing as an EP, as an end result. They are still low-life scum, even after doing training, OT levels, and endless sec checks, and redoing grades. One look at their “OT VIIIs” betrays them.

    Argh! I still can’t get over the audacity and hubris and just plan out tech, off policy BS that this email from Cardone represents! Just like that weasel Allender asking to do a tech inspection! WTF! Who does they think they are? What authority do they have, even if Mr. David Miscavige was an angel? WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO FORM OF THE ORG?

    Scientologists get de-facto declared for saying something bad about Miscavige. Just for saying something bad about him. For raising a legitimate concern (or even if the concern is not legitimate). There is no excuse for a 1.1, backstabbing, smear program like the ones Cardone did, like the ones so many of you all endured. Minerva’s “blog” should be required reading for everyone on the fence. These are the people you are choosing to be with when you side with Dave. Talk about using policy to stop! THESE are the people you are supporting, people! I literally get sick reading their shit. But it is a GOOD sick, because it is an INSPIRING sick.

    And it comes down to – Mr. David Miscavige KNOWS beings can’t change, because he can’t change. He is NCG – No Case Gain. He is the same asshole he was when he was a kid. So, he targets the being rather than the case.

    /rant 🙂

  180. I’ve noticed that a number of the Scientology Hollywood crowd have dropped into antagonism or unexpressed resentment, since the Tom Cruise foot-bullets of 2005 to 2008. I was watching Jason Lee on the Jimmy Fallon Show the other night, and Jimmy Fallon called him out on it in the middle of the interview, asking “Why you getting so angry, man?” It was really weird and awkward. Granted, Fallon is pretty 1.1, but it was just sad to watch Jason Lee (a normally really uptone guy), go the effect of the whole thing and act so downtone and sort of fake during the interview.

  181. Excellent! Awesome!

  182. JIm -Thanks for bringing up the original OTlV- I got it and loved it .

  183. Jackson, Your ‘sudden’ is beautiful. Love

  184. One of those who see, I felt the same way with regards to watching the video. I loved it . It was at the time very theta and moving. Oh what could have been!

  185. Congratulations to all of you up there. I have heard such wonderful things about you guys and your Center and those who support you in various ways. You’re all doing such a beautiful job.


  186. Nice research with links Sinar. As I like it to be.

  187. Wow, thanks for posting this video Lo. From one end of the world to the other, the eyes are opening.

    Well Dm the only blind one is YOU.

  188. @MofG – ROFL!

    @Margaret – Thank you so very much for that info, it was extremely helpful on multiple fronts.

  189. Purif and TRs & Obj. comps must be decent …with all those Clears and OTs ordered to redo them.

  190. You really have to love the irony, though, of a guy STANDING ON A BOX, singing “We Stand Tall.”

    Ah, god. It sucks to be him.

  191. You really have to love the irony, though, of a guy STANDING ON A BOX, singing “We Stand Tall.”

  192. Thks Marty for your recall on the vid – this ending up being a gift that keeps on giving!

    >> He is standing on a box so as not to be dwarfed by Rinder to his right and Wilhere to his left and everyone else.

    HAHAHA – i knew it! and wisecracked somewhere to such, plus makes this remix all the more appropriate:

    >> The most noteworthy thing about all this to me is the highlighting of LRH at the end.

    That actually struck me as utterly surreal too – feels like its subliminally saying “Wave Goodbye to LRH”

  193. one of those who see

    I knew of Milton. Did not know he had passed away. Milton, Thank you for all the help you gave your fellow artists and for all your dissemination of Scientology. I’m so sorry that later in your life you were subject to the insanity of the Church. But, it looks like you were very aware of what was happening since you had backed away.

    The email sent by GC is a very scary thing indeed. VERY SCARY!! This is Soviet Union stuff. Getting in trouble for choosing to not participate!

  194. Turnaround or Turncoat King? The latter.

  195. Big Thanks, LO, for posting this video.

    As much as it indicts DM’s regime, it paints a grim picture of how things are in Europe vis-a-vis human rights and freedoms. It is evident that fascist elements are alive and “well” there in some of the governments and in their societies.The “disconnection” and ostracism he suffered at the hands of the antisocial elements in those societies which killed his career and ability to earn a living was every bit as bad as anything the CoS ever perpetrated. Death threats????? The ‘brown shirts’ elements of those supposedly enlightened societies made fair game of him, plain and simple.

    The fact that DM’s CoS regime had a lot to do with creating that climate of backlash against the CoS is no excuse.

    Kudos to the Swiss for publishing this interview. And to Mark for speaking out.

  196. Although I personally never knew Katsales, I always held him in high esteem because of his work. He was obviously a man who LIVED life, lived it large, and lived it on his terms. He threw himself into acting, making movies, sex, food,etc with a passion. That is to be expected! And I certainly would be surprised if otherwise. Where I draw the line however, is when someone who claims to be a “religious leader” locks himself up in hotels in Las Vegas F______ing prostitutes for THOUSANDS of dollars, on the Church’s dime, and has the GAUL to parade his sanctimonious ass around commanding “expose’s” of other’s piccadellos. Seems that not enough was really uncovered about him. There is something VERY kinky about Miscavige. Just organize a focus group of prostitutes – they will be able to read him right and give you the scoop.

  197. Sue,

    To my mind, “Kool-Aid drinkers” means exactly what you think it means. I think, as some here (not all) do, that it’s possible the “Kool-Aid” might one day become a poisoned reality, not a mental or spiritual metaphor. Yes, those days in Jonestown were dark ones when first they practiced with Kool-Aid and later drank (and were forced to drink) the stuff that killed their bodies as well as their minds.


  198. I recall receiving both of those emails by Grant, and the mess that was created by it. Soon after he was awarded New OTVIII.

    Hopefully one day he might see the light of day…I’m more hopeful for Elena to see it though. Although…who knows, it might never come.

    My all time favorite Grant Cardone’s moment, was when he replied to my email regarding the reasons why I decided to disassociate my self from the “Church” with:

    “not interested”

    That just gave me the magnitude of the being I was dealing with…the same man that a couple of months prior wrote to me an email saying “u are a great being!”

    Well Grant, you are definitely a Turnaround King 😉

    ARC, ML, and all that 1.1 ending BS church people write at the end of whatever they write.


  199. martyrathbun09

    For reference:
    Kool aid drinker:
    Someone who believes what they are told without thinking for themselves. From the followers of Jim Jones in Guyana who committed suicide by drinking poisoned Kool Aid.
    The Kool Aid drinkers are buying this stock because their broker recommended it.

  200. GRANT CORDONE is a DM enabler, it’s as simple as that.
    A kiss-ass toadie.
    FAIR GAME and malicious actions were done to those outside the Chuch.
    Now we see what is done (Milton Katsalus) to those STILL IN THE CHURCH ~~
    if you are not on board it is suppressive!”

    If you do not engage in malicious rumor-mongering top destroy a Scientologist in good standing e.g. Milton Katsalus, if you do not engage in destructive acts, predatory gouging of $$$ from the Public, donate donate donate to the scam of “library donations”, IAS and Ideal orgs, you are a newly defined Suppressive Person


    milton katselas has not made any direct contributions to Ideal Orgs, IAS or any other of COB’s command intention.

    GRANT CORDONE is a David Miscavige enabler.

  201. I just read the 2007 New York Times article about Milton Katselas by Mark Oppenheimer. It is the one of the most positive mainstream articles about Scientology I have EVER read. As other commenters have posted above, the article can be found at

    The person, other than Oppenheimer, responsible for this quite intriguing and positive piece about Scientology is Milton Katselas.

    However, it is hard to believe the NYTimes article was written in the same time frame as Grant Cardone’s so-called “ethics write-up.”

    Grant Cardone, with all your certs and levels and wealth and fame and access within the entertainment world, could you not observe and see what was obvious? Apparently, you could not. You owe Milton Katselas an apology.


  202. Cowboy Poet

    Oh Lunamoth, that is so rich!

  203. Who would be in a position to file a missing persons report for Shelly Miscavige and Heber Jentch?

  204. You realize that your stats outshine many other orgs in the Church of Scientology, right?

    No wonder DM is flipping out…

  205. Yvonne Schick

    Good observation. Would you by any chance be an experienced sec checker?

  206. lunamoth,got that picture, that was funny!

  207. Best Tony Robbins line I ever heard was “I’ve got to catch my plane to Fiji in twenty minutes but before I go…..”. I could say more about T.R. but my own plane to Fiji leaves in ten…….(ha ha)

  208. WH – I was on the Apollo when MIlton arrived, not long after myself. It was a big deal. This was about the same time Bob Miles has written a screenplay called Safespace and was procuring a hydrofoil for the Sea Org. Irene chaired his comm ev. Bob was more than a little off the wall to put it politely. Don’t know if there was any crossover with the script they worked on. When Milton finished his next film “Butterflies are Free”, it was shown to all the crew. We took buses into Lisbon and LRH took a limo with his family. The aides tooks taxis. It was like a head of state going to one of the best opera-style movie houses prevalent in Portugal. When I met Milton years later, he was very impressed to meet someone who remembered that and told me a story about the projector operator. As for Irene, I personally liked her and got along with her. LRH said about her that she was too interested in status. Jack I liked too. They figured out how to work the system. Not too many did it as well as they both have.

  209. This is an apt description for DM followers. But it still makes me shudder each time I hear or read it.

  210. These are excellent comments and will serve future and current practioners an aspirants. It is a major lost reference point. Thank you.

  211. Freespirit,

    I did know Milton, and I personally think your description of him is very apt – a passionate man living large! His products as a Scientologist were significant. His stature and presence lent a lot to Scientology as well as his teaching (acting) products.

    As regards your allusions to the hypocrisy of a certain “religious leader” and misuse of church funds for personal indulgences – ie. prostitutes… I’ve read hints of this behavior before on Marty’s blog. I don’t know you, so I don’t know how direct your experience with this was. Is it something you are aware of from first hand experience?

    I find this ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING. To me it speaks mounds. I agree it seems something is really twisted here – to a degree that we don’t quite have a finger on it. The outpoints and overts on 2D are so enormous: encouraged abortions of how many would have been scientologist children (aren’t abortions specifically mentioned in SOS or DMSMH? —somewhere, I’m sure), inhibited 2Ds of others – enforced separations and divorces, engineered own wife’s “disappearance,” severed intimate relationships of all sorts, used priest-penitent protected confessions of sexual transgressions to interiorize and embarrass, installed cameras in auditing room where people are supposed to feel safe sharing anything with an auditor, etc.

    If what you say is so, how could he have gotten away with it? Who else knew about this?


  212. Other than the obvious in all of the reports in this thread, I observed or realized something I had not thought about before. If DM has someone donating a million here and there for private investigators, he could have wisely arranged his budget so the huge layouts for P.I.’s etc. are just interest on decent paying bonds or convertible high dividend yielding stocks. In other words, it is not really “costing” him anything or seriously depleting SO Reserves. He’s just getting suckers to front for him. It it is set up wise fiscally, he’s laughing at the money he’s spending on P.I.’s.
    There are many diverse aspects to the deconstruction of his operation. At some point, it is time to discuss and take apart the whole inside of Sea Org Reserves and how it operates. Some of the “guilty” will come forward with new information. I think the actual finances (and who played the piano) are a much bigger part of the 3D engram than most realize.

  213. Off topic. OSA you lost again. You don’t have any friends on the internet. All yyou can do is try to buy people.

  214. one of those who see

    LOL!!!!! Well done for pointing that out!!

  215. Amen Grasshopper. Nice rant. DM and crew don’t think the technology works.

    “So the ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. It’s our possible failure to retain and practice our technology.” – LRH


    The ogre is in their buildings.

  216. Yvonne,

    You always know how to make me smile. ml, Laura

  217. He’s standing on a box and he’s STILL the shortest person there…

  218. You stated:

    “TRANSLATION : If you do not engage in malicious rumor-mongering top destroy a Scientologist in good standing e.g. Milton Katsalus, if you do not engage in destructive acts, predatory gouging of $$$ from the Public, donate donate donate to the scam of “library donations”, IAS and Ideal orgs, you are a newly defined Suppressive Person”


    Your translation skills are superb! 🙂 As usual!


  219. GH,
    I’m with ya mate. DM does not make gain. He doesn’t credit Scientology works. Nobody can make gain. It’s the CofNCG. With a classic SP at the helm, steering that ship onto the rocks again, again and again.

    This is the guy that ASSAULTED a preclear in session!!!! HE ASSAULTED THE PC IN SESSION!!!

    Minervozo, AKA DM’s alter ego, is as scurrilous, debased, depraved and hateful as any person on the face of the earth. And that’s DM’s mouthpiece.

    Only one caveat should one wander into that seething pit of rattlesnake heads, keep your TRs in, ease up on the impulse a sane being would have to resist the lowest reaches of the Tone Scale manifest there and still, when you go take a long, hot shower to see that you get it all off ya. Then read this from DMSMH to provide the positive pleasure moment to discharge that shit:

    “There is therefore a necessity for pleasure, for working, as happiness can be defined,
    toward known goals over not unknowable obstacles. And the necessity for pleasure is such that a great deal of pain can be borne to attain it. Pleasure is the positive commodity. It is enjoyment of work, contemplation of deeds well done; it is a good book or a good friend; it is taking all the skin off one’s knees climbing the Matterhorn; it is hearing the kid first say daddy; it is a brawl on the Bund at Shanghai or the whistle of amour from a doorway; it’s adventure and hope and enthusiasm and “someday I’ll learn to paint”; it’s eating a good meal or kissing a pretty girl or playing a stiff game of bluff on the stock exchange. It’s what Man does that he enjoys doing; it’s what Man does that he enjoys contemplating; it’s what Man does that he enjoys remembering; and it may be just the talk of things he knows he’ll never do.”

  220. David, That’s a great comment. Your first sentence really nails it.

    I love running into these types on the phone or anywhere else because it’s like watching a car doing 80 impact a granite wall in slow motion. They don’t generally get past the second sentence before I nail them on dishonesty and send them to the bottom of the ocean where they belong.

    The day when sales techniques trumps honesty and integrity I have yet to see. This guy Cordone is a total FAKE and couldn’t be relied on to do anything except be the con artist he is. He’s got salesmanship mixed up with being a con artist. “GREEEAT! SUUUUPER!!!! YOU ‘DA MAN!”

    100% out of valence.


  221. Tony:

    You make me laugh. 🙂 It is not surprising at all that Tom Cruise would accept a role like this because being best buddies with D. Miss Cabbage® he not doubt takes pride as his best buddy does in destroying whatever good there might be left in his deranged mind for “the good of all concerned”.

    I knew a man just like this once {that never became a Scientologist} and you could be talking to him one minute and then all of sudden he goes into a rage and throws a sofa through the window.

    Tom and DM’s conducts are both very similar to people that have no real true moral or ethics presence with others.



  222. GC’s wife 3P Milton.

  223. LO,
    Better than that, you can actually do it!!!

  224. Milton didn’t suck the little cameraboy.
    What a crime!!

  225. Thanks, this was really inspirational

  226. lunamoth,
    That IS rich. Priceless in fact. DM on an applebox, standing tall. Pope on a Box. Pope Tart. I Stand Small, no turning back, I’ve changed the tune. Hey, laly, la, hey laly I Stand Small.

  227. Les,
    Oh yeah, THAT’S what it’s all about!!!

    My man in Coeur D’Alene!

  228. Tom M,
    Ouch. That man has PRODUCTS!!!

    No wonder DM hated him. He can actually DO something that is positive.

    Imagine the ignominy Grant Cardone has attained as a DM Minion. Talk about an attempt at harming a man of good will Grant. Your Beamer and Rolex ain’t gonna sooth that ache.

  229. Yes, you are right we still have facists elements in our societies or I would rather say that some of them are back.
    But those things wouldn’t have happen if the C.O.S didn’t create those enemies in the first place and wasn’t able to keep its pr in.
    In the seventies and eighties there were so many booming big orgs and missions in Europe and there wasn’t any problem to disseminate and you even got jobs when you were telling you’re Scientologist, as they were known as hard workers.
    Also the stories in the newspapers about Scientology were such nonsense and full of lies that we had to laugh about it and you could handle it with a good laugh.
    This changed drastically when the prices went up into the sky and Scientologists became very frantic about money and everything was just about money and some went to jail (even staffs) because of financial crimes and then we couldn’t laugh anymore about the stories in the news as we knew they were true.
    Also in 83/84 when the Finance Police missions went into every Org and mission in Europe, declared people left and right and stole all the reserves of those groups and one ethics mission after the other visiting orgs and missions accusing public and staffs of outethics and sending the staffs to CLO in Copenhagen to do the DPF (lots of running and no real food) and some even to the RPF (also publics) and getting all kind of funny ethics Interviews in masses on the Emeter with 2 people standing behind you !
    It occured then a mass exodus of Scientologists having heavy arc xs and they were telling their stories to the world. I guess that from 82 to 83 about 30 to 40 000 european Scientologists left.
    Our org that had about 25 fulltime staffs (not one moonlighting !), high income and huge reserves in one year was left over with 7 staffs, was financially broke and had to ask for donations from the public in order to pay the rent. All because of the evil Sps, not the management, no it was some other Sps (psychiatrists or government or the man on the moon) !

    This storm of the nazis over the Scientology Network in Europe in 1982/83 nearly destroyed the whole subject and pr of it, as you couldn’t anymore proudly say you’re a Scientologist because of the ensuing attacks then you couldn’t handle with real arguments, as you have experienced it yourself and you knew this entheta was true ! You couldn’t laugh about it anymore, only if you were a liar as you have seen and experienced this psychotic craziness. Also it could be that the person you were talking to had a family member or a friend that made some weird experiences and you got this bpc into your face. In those times, people have died, disappeared , went financially broke, 2Ds were broken up…….

    Mark Janicello didn’t know the history in Europe and was used as a naive puppet, most of the European Scientologist wouldn’t have done what he did, as they knew what would happen. Nobody told him what management did in those years and that lots of the stories told were true. He got the whole BPC in his face and he was lied to.

    Because of its past European 3rd dyn. and governments can become very psychotic when they perceive something resembling the “Nazis”.
    The PR could be handled very fast if the church would become honest and confess and excuse itself and would do the right amends, no they ‘ll never do it they want to fight SPs that are long gone. LRH said in a journal in 1982 that the Sps have lost and Scientology won but he forgot to look at DM !

  230. „milton katselas has made no bridge progress since Old OTV completion over 14 years ago“

    „David Miscarriage has made no bridge progress since…….. “

  231. Grasshopper – you said it!

    “And it comes down to – Mr. David Miscavige KNOWS beings can’t change, because he can’t change. He is NCG – No Case Gain. He is the same asshole he was when he was a kid. So, he targets the being rather than the case. ”

    Yes, I remember Miscavige when he was a kid too … my first impression was ‘what a little cocky self-important asshole’.

    Amazing the only thing that has changed over the years is he’s gotten even more calculating.

    He’s still as ineffective as he always was on a theta level.

    Now all I see is one condensed mass of machinery & circuits fighting a long lost battle.

    He already knows the game is lost … it’s just a matter of when.

  232. Tony DePhillips

    Mark looks like a very theta guy.
    He endured quite the shallacking and wa thrown under the bus by RCS.
    Goes to show how the cult of cabbage does not take care of their own.

  233. LO, thanks a lot for this, i didn’t know the story of Europe incident!

  234. otscottottocsto

    This story leads me back to a fundamental point. No matter how vile is David Miscavige … and he is … Cordone had to agree with Miscavige … meaning that Cordone, and anyone else, for that matter, who ‘aides and abets’ Miscavige’s evisceration of Scientology, necessarily had to, at some level, not merely duplicate but also directly agree with and support Miscavige’s goals and purposes. Miscavige may be the ringleader, but, he could not have done this alone.

  235. Yes, Con Artists & Predators.
    I left those off their resumes. My bad

    The Cardones’, Robbins’ AND Miscaviges’ of the world don’t see people as you and I see them. They see themselves as a species apart and above.
    Like the lion surveying the grazing wildebeest herd, they see only prey. Not their own kind.

  236. Theo Sismanides

    And who is a saint? can you name one? LOL!! I actually feel there is so much hypocrisy on the subject of sex in this society. And finally a lot of stuff is being used against a being to defame him…. Well letting you know that in Greece once we had a Zeus god… lol… he was known for all of his adventures and naughtiness… yet a God… So… all this aesthetic is gone from Sex now in this stiff and stark society… I am not saying that constant play on that dynamic is the best but on the other hand No Play and Fun and only Rigidness and all Seriousness has made the subject what it is on Planet Earth. So who is to judge Milton on that?

  237. Theo Sismanides

    Margaret, thanks for the data… I was wondering what happened to her. Of course she would go… she was so on source and so creative…. to write those books so simple… thanks

  238. Theo Sismanides

    hahaha, and you were the… talent!!! lol that was sooooo good! We know about self importance Joy, it’s just right there in KSW # 1. lol thanks for this anecdote!

  239. BTW, where is Tommy Davis? Anybody know?

  240. Oh Just Me,

    Grant is an artist. What does truth have to do with art? Creativity is art. Making stuff up. And when you create something new, something else has to be destroyed. Simple math.

    So, making a new Scientology would require destroying the old Scientology.

    And everyone in the way.

    Destroy, destroy, destroy = create, create, create.

    Which makes Dear Leader the greatest artist of all.

    What does truth have to do with creativity?


  241. Barney Rubble


    This blog thread has run it’s course likely, but I wanted to respond to your response. You are right Irene did throw Milton under the bus, esp after he supported her and Jack Dirman when they left the SO in the 80’s. My point being its sad to see Irene go to the KA status. I know she finished OT VII in the mid 2000’s, that is the last I heard from her. I hope she is submerged her head out of the sand that’s all.

  242. I remember this! Great article, thanks. Very theta.
    And what a guy!! His light was clearly FAR too bright for DM and his merry band of Death Eaters.

    — Mike

  243. Robert Earle

    LOL Deep fired please Sinar.

  244. While driving home from the gym, my wife and I were talking about this stuff and came up with an interesting idea.

    The same material that comprises dog shit also comprises gold. If you examine the period chart of elements, you’ll see that the same stuff that goes into hydrogen also goes into plutonium. It’s just a matter of configuration.

    Affinity, reality and communication comprise theta. And a thetan. But there are huge differences in how theta manifests and how individual thetans manifest.

    What does that thetan do with his affinity? His communication? His reality? How does he configure these things? What patterns does he dramatize?

    Ideally, theta should be able to create and uncreate any configuration or pattern. And the individual should be capable of recognizing the creations of others and understand those creations.

    The more fixated a being, the less capable of creating the vast array of possibilities, and the less capable of understanding and appreciating the vast array of creations of others.

    Individuals like Der Leader and Cordone seem very limited in their view. Fixated within a very narrow range. They’ve configured their affinity, reality and communication in disgusting forms that require doggie bags in New York.

    Another aspect of this deals with contribution. What does the person contribute? How are those contributions accepted and appreciated? What do others contribute to that individual? How are those contributions accepted and appreciated?

    That’s the crux of a happy marriage: contributing to someone who accepts and appreciates those contributions, while accepting and appreciating the contributions of your spouse. Divorces trace back to violation of this.

    Look at the huge contributions of Milton Katselas to Scientology. Exactly who is accepting and appreciating those contributions?

    Who is not?

    Who is contributing to the advance of Scientology? Who is accepting and appreciating those contributions?

    Sorry if those act like listing questions. Just recognize that understanding the dynamics of a successful group–be it on the second or third dynamic–reside in grasping how contributions to the purpose/goal are made, accepted and appreciated.

    Key lime pie is being served. Got to go. Yum. Now that’s one contribution I can appreciate and accept.


  245. martyrathbun09


  246. Ruth’s classic little book “Miracles for Breakfast” is available for free download here:

    It is about how she applied some scientology in raising her boys and at just 55 pages is a terrific dissemination piece.

    I believe her books were removed from orgs in the early1980s. Prior to that, the hearsay was that LRH liked at least some of her books and didn’t mind them being sold along with his own.

    However in her “Ups and Downs” booklet, also available for free download, she has reduced the number of anti-social characteristics of a suppressive personality from 12 to11, if I recall it correctly. So it’s possible she eventually ran into some objections over alter-is. Or perhaps the fact that she was even broadly disseminating the idea that an SP personality existed, was objectionable to some elements within the CoS?

    But “Miracles” is a great book.

  247. Tony Dephillips

    Hi Launa.
    I hear you. TC and this conman and Dm and all his wannabees have this arrogant, no sympathy, I’m Billy badass valence going on.
    Im sure it is the SP valence. They think it’s the winning valence, but they’re all losers!!

  248. Tony Dephillips

    Sorry. I meant Lana.
    You going to the Indy party?

  249. Thanks, Jim. So true. The Theta-MEST theory at work. Thanks again for the reference.

  250. Robert Earle

    well defined Les

  251. That is vague mystery plowing. And? “Milton was no saint” is a generality. Abracadabra, ……. Do you mean to infer Milton might have had a few snuggles somewhere along his track? And if this idea repels you, is that Milton’s problem or yours? I still don’t get this theater in Scientology culture of insisting every dynamic lie across the third in the Church in some agreement. Obviously Milton was thrown under the bus, after he filled up the academy at CC with students. The HGC with PC’s. He was an opinion leader. And it is obvious when someone comes along in the Scientology arena who has any form of promise or power, DM pulls the rug out from under them. He only lets Tom Cruise shine because Tom makes it a public confession at every event he is on a tight leash held by DM. Get REAL!

  252. Hubbard himself said Injustice always recoils on those who deal in it. If you spies are so damned devoted why can’t you think with that? Injustice is recoiling on the Church.

  253. P.S. Let it whip.

  254. Rita,

    If you and any of those kool aid drinkers think that Milton was out 2-D, then you are really blind, because the KING of out-2D and out-ethics is David Miscavige who pimped the churchies young girls for his best friend “Tom Cruise”. And once Tom gets tired of one, David Miscavige removed her and replaced her with another one. This is your dear loser’s game.
    Here is IAS 2004, 19 years old girl wearing pink standing on Tom’s left side, between him and his mom, her name is “Yolanda Pecoraroa” and a public at Celebrity Center Int, LA. she was in intimate relationship with Tom Cruise back in 2004 only for 3 weeks, while David Miscavige was hunting for Tom’s next girl. Her IMDB:
    Tom Cruise paid for her bridge in order to keep her silenced.

  255. No. {sigh}. My professional schedule won’t allow it yet, but look how many more lifetimes we have to go to the parties, so all is not lost! {LOL}.

    Thank you, and that is very kind of you to think of me Tony! 🙂

  256. theystolemychurch

    . .


  257. Tommy Davis is in hell – that’s for sure.

    ML Tom

  258. barneyrubble

    +1. A masterpiece song that is that got me going in severe troubled times.

  259. Theo Sismanides

    Hey Mike, this is great actually, the comm formula. Have done lots of sales myself as I run a business of graphics with Olga my wife and done the sales. I was able to get one successful product, a little calendar card advertising each shop separately and then on the other side it has name days by date of the year which is a big think in Greece, name days… 21st of April you get 100 George friends… lol… So, I got in comm with people and got up to 100 customers going steady now and then found a way to reduce cost for customer so it’s affordable, just printing 16 customers at a time and not just 1 or 2.

    That made a difference, it’s like LRH says

    caring for the person in front of you and making sure he buys and pays for the product.

    These guys have an MU on the word FOR probably so for them it goes like this

    “caring he buys and pays for the product… in front of you… ” lol

    In any case I want to get in contact with some people here as to business we could do and comm lines we can extend with each other and especially with you Mike as a salesman… I am going into trading got some clients in China and it looks good and promising.. my email is or send me your’s. … It’s great to be in comm.

  260. scilonschools

    Anonymous people have got quite used to the “I’m not a Scientologist but….” crowd!! (always defending a CoM (RCS) action as an ‘independant observer’)
    This link to a Brian Seymour report in Australia clearly demonstrates the phenomina , , really starts about 3:00 in and is very clear about 3:30 in.
    Apologies for the poor quality and some of the content (re Study Tech) but it does illustrate an important point!

  261. Robert Earle

    Great post J L.
    You brought up a very exciting point in time. 78-79. at the risk of being lenghty here I have an “old no longer used” LRH reference which you may compare with GAT .Of course as Independent Scientologists you are at risk for using the heavily copyrighted GAT so it would be best to just use what has been trashed by DM
    LRH ED 299 INT 28 Sept 78
    To: All Staffs
    HCO PL ” ” I ”
    ” II ”
    ” III ”
    ” IV ”

    For some years Orgs have been suffering from a shortage of auditors.

    Because of this, HGC backlogs have increased and the public is being denied auditing.

    Earlier this year I evaluated this auditor shortage scene.

    The BASIC WHY of all this is :

    I have now handled this.


    Each checksheet has been stripped down to the key materials the student needs in order to audit that level.

    Starrates and twin checkouts are not given on these courses.

    Good stiff coaching is a must.

    The Student Hat is a requisite for Level 0. and the new checksheets then demand that study tech is applied and applied fully for a fast but thorough route through the training on 0-IV.

    The emphasis is on the BASICS, with tough drilling of the student on the skills of the level he’s studying —-and then getting him in the chair!

    In the old days an auditor , given the basics, learned to audit by AUDITING. It still holds true today.”
    (my note: : please see how this next paragraph fits with GAT-Bob Earle)

    “You can stuff a student with theory until it’s coming out of her ears but you won’t have an auditor until he AUDITS. You can even put him through all the drills that have ever been dreamed up and you still won’t have an auditor until he AUDITS.

    We’ve had the datum for some time that a student too long on the runway is going to lose the spark and zeal he started out with.

    The new shorter checksheets are geared to that datum.

    The direction we’re going in is—-we’re going to MAKE AUDITORS.

    (This is not the end of the LRH ED but gives one some data.)

    Let the C of Mousecabbage use the long runway to “perfect” auditors who have yet to take a PC in session. This way they won’t disturb the Ideal Morgues with a lot of sessions which could just mess up the video crews in their vital PR shots

    For a simple hat in auditing dianetics read HCOB 3 Apr 66 Dianetic Auditing Course.
    I do have LRH ED 301 Int RJ 30 1978- THE YEAR OF LIGHTNING FAST NEW TECH which contains the info on what Jim Logan is refering to . so If you have a question about that I can give you the info straight from the LRH ED.

  262. Metaqual: — Bob Miles — as far as I know wasn’t ON the Apollo but was at CC LA around 1971-72. Milton I believe was on the ship around 1972.

    I was highly doubt that LRH and Milton were working on Bob Miles screenplay. It wasn’t very good.

    However, since Revolt of the Stars was finished and looking for financing and distributorship etc circa 1975-6 by Liz Gablehouse – LRH PRO FLB – at Flag – my intuition says the script was LRH’s. Or who knows — maybe one of Milton’s?

    We will know for sure when Robert F. Lyons — long time scientologist and former friend of Milton’s (who hopefully didn’t disconnect from him) rubs the wool out of his eyes and joins the growing crowd of independents.

    You must have known Irene and Jack at ASHO? I don’t remember hearing that Jack was ever on the Apollo. Irene was married one the Apollo to Tony Dunlevy and then ?? and left when she was pregnant I believe — perhaps earlier and came to CC.


  263. Barney — thanks for the clarity.

    She’s OT VIII and still drinking KA. She and Jack had to skate thin ice as Jack was a key “FSM” for Reed Slatkin – themselves losing close to a million and his family losing 400K.

    As far as I know still living in CW and at least Irene is an FSM to the rich and famous.


  264. Joe Pendleton

    Tommy Davis and Shelley Miscavige are currently twinning on a super secret project. They are spending 18 hours a day, 7 days a week doing clay demos of EVERY SINGLE LINE of DMSMH. This is projected to take about 5 years to complete and will eventually culminate in “The Golden Age of Clay.” Yes, folks – get ready to buy ALL new editions of ALL the books. They’ll be “super sized” and made of extra sturdy stock as each line will be on a separate “pull off” thing that can be used as an “overall label.” Man, I CAN’;T WAIT! And the new book package will be ONLY $20,000! What a bargain!!!!! (cash or credit? Don’t be silly. Credit of course!)

  265. That mass got me a bit massy, Tony. lol
    This dude is a Perfect Douchebag.
    OT VIII, eh? Wow… He sure is causative.
    In every repulsive way. Any corporate would love to have him
    and that’s why we watch his videos. Douchebags love douchebags,
    especially when it comes to profits, fair or not.
    Since DM is a douchebag too, him and Grant are like a match made in haven.

  266. Seems natural indeed.

  267. Joe Pendleton

    Also…hate to mention this, but the new Clay Demo Basics Certainty Course (every line of every book in clay) is the new pre-req for Super Power which will be the new pre-req for OTIX eligability (which of course is the pre-req for….). And we’re gonna need a couple of more Super Powah buildings to house all the clay table stuff. And since this course takes years, we’re gonna need huge dorm style accomadations (on this course, every six months you get to go HOME for a week).. Of course there will be elite housing for the SERIOUS contributors. We’re gonna need some REAL fund raising too for these buildings. It will be called “The Feschbach Complex” but the Fesh boys can’t be expected to pony up for ALL of this. And yes, you have to buy all three meals a day on campus, but not to worry. Kirstie Alley’s company is providing all the catering.

  268. I witnessed Bodhi on his OTVIA course metering drills with MU phenomena. I had never seen that much dramo on an MU and I’d seen a lot. He was a spoiled brat type and almost weeping and whining about how he was sure he understood it all and why did Ron write it in such a stupid way for him not to get it clearly. It was pathetic.

  269. LES – thanks for your kind words and insights. GH – Spot on! Raindog, Jim Logan, Dennis, yes! Marty, thanks again for exposing Miscavige Administration psuedo-Scientology.

    LRH talks about “incredibles.” and how duplication suffers in the face of “incredibles.”

    One of the most incredible incredibles in this scene is that :


    He does not believe in the Power of Theta and the ability to As-Is.

    So, you have to go through a MEST solution – pain and suffering – for absolution. And, even then, absolution is never complete or final.

    Meaning no slight to our Christian brothers and sisters, his world is a world of purgatories to be suffered to balance wrong, and a world of Original Sin, which can never be fully removed on our own.

    LRH’s world is a world where the Being is basically good – whole, complete, and essentially wonderful, Theta, which is not just good, but the Source of Good. In LRH’s world, this essentially Divine and glorious Being is only driven to wrong behavior out of reactive impulses combined with a lack of Tech.

    That is THE premise of Scientology, laid out in Book One, and consistently repeated thereafter. It is also one of the reasons we attracted so many people in earlier times.

    Scientology recognized something all have been looking for, a recognition of their basic goodness and a fresh start. It is not surprising people flooded in.

    And, it is not surprising that now, with the Miscavige Administration spreading the opposite idea, the idea that people are basically evil (and hence must be keep under constant inspection, threat and duress):

    (1) the inflow of new people has dried up; and

    (2) roughly half of those already in have renounced (what they have come to believe is) the religion. Statistic: the number of people in the US identifying themselves as Scientologists has collapsed to half of what it was 10 years ago.*


    *source: American Religious Self-identification Survey, by the City University of New York

  270. LOL

    A tough job.


  271. Robert Earle

    Thank you LO …for the video as well as the detailed history of EU as it relates to Marks story.
    I’m sure this interview as well as any future interviews and his book will help nail down the coffin lid on Nepol….(oups) his royal shortness.
    If Mark isn’t already following Marty’s blog perhaps he’d like to.

  272. Holy out of the closet! The we stand tall video is on the cover of YAHOO!

  273. at minimum or at the least, you can be a non practising is totally ok.
    just like catholics or mormons or buddhists…..we dont live in north korea.
    as for his out-2d,who cares…better to be out 2d then have no 2d…and for cardone to kr someones out 2d means he never understood hollywood.the actors in ccint are all second tier actors anyways me thinks.all oppresed actors who cant show their true humility.try to find me a great actor who isnt a dark soul….
    writing a kr on this guy was shamefull and shows that he has a man crush on dm.

  274. Go get ’em Tiger 🙂

  275. You monkey!

  276. Michael — making me laugh (and think) since 2010. 🙂

  277. I’ll take you by word !

  278. Lunamoth,

    How funny.

  279. Sue,

    Do you get the feeling that some of the “new” customers might be window dressing supplied to make Cardone look successful? Sort of like sending in people to buy your book to raise its sales.

  280. scott,
    Yes, of course there are those who sympathetically participated with DM. There are those that continue. The mail sent to Milton is an example of the ‘character’ the valence in Scn terms, that was agreed to and taken on.

    That character has overwhelmed the being moving DM’s body around. He has become the ‘evil valence’. By emanating at a Tone Level he’s struck chords in others, they’ve assumed to some degree that valence, the one they think exists – that is ‘what would DM do’ and then the behavior carries on.

    David Miscavige isn’t the first or last Suppressive Person. He’s a real one though. A classic and at this time he’s found the material of Dianetics and Scientology to use against others in the game of betrayal of trust.

    With DM it’s a question of how small do you have to get to curry favor and adopt what you think he’d be like. I can see a lot of shoe sizes shrinking, a rush in the sale of hair product, and possibly more and more men buying douche bags and saving their Starbucks dregs.

    And for Dave this morning; hey Dweeb. You can’t play anything, not baseball, not piano, not Bossy Boo, not even man – no wonder Shelley left you.

  281. Jim,

    Since “products” represent what is valued. And what is valued represents havingness level, wouldn’t the acceptable products of those who are low-toned and suppressive be low-toned and suppressive?

    And if the leader of a suppressive bunch is suppressive, wouldn’t he surround himself with those who could produce suppressive product?

    I doubt that the man is up-tone enough to ache. You need a conscience, a sense of ethics and a sense of having harmed others.

    Which makes me wonder about the TA and needle actions of a true sociopath. A true sociopath doesn’t read on lie detector tests. His TA and needle wouldn’t be necessarily stuck. He might even have a perpetual floating TA because he’s so out of ARC. Like an ARC break needle looking like a floating needle. But perpetual.

    By the way, how you doin’ Dog-breath?


  282. Jackson,

    Maybe protesters should be carrying signs asking those exact questions: where are they?

  283. Marty,

    There’s no question that these guys are, as you say, Policy Illiterate. Which makes me wonder why they are accused of stealing policy. How can you steal what you don’t use?

    To steal policy, they would have to understand and duplicate it. Neither of which has occurred. All they’re doing is dramatizing some hugely alter-ised version of “policy” straight out of their own banks.

  284. Hayden,

    Theta requires opposition for a persistence to occur. Don’t you see the genius of this man? His sheer capacity to bring about persistence by making everyone and everything opposition?

    As the ad says, “Quality goes in before the name goes on.”

    He’s a universe maker supreme.

  285. Tony,

    I think they’re also dramatizing their misunderstood about “ethics presence.” Steve’s site has an excellent treatment of this whole thing.

    What is ethics presence really? Might be time to re-visit this subject.

  286. You would think Tom Cruise would wonder why he never sees the wife of his best bud.

  287. Maria Abian

    There is nothing wrong with his height. Yet he thinks there is…he lets his height and feeling of inferiority control him.

    If he was a great leader and preserver, no one would make fun of his height . And not because they fear that they would get in trouble, but because they would feel stupid concentrating on something of no importance.

    But because no one really respects him AND he feels inferior because of his height…that is the natural thing to goad him about.

    And it will never end DM, because no one respects you.
    No one.

  288. Maria Abian

    I have.

  289. TheWidowDenk

    K-zizzle & mirari —

    Looks like I worked with Bodhi either:

    1) On a really good day, or

    2) Before he got imbued with out tech.

    I suspect the latter.

  290. Maria Abian

    Asking about Shelley and Heber has been a sign staple at most protests in L.A. and Gilman Hot Springs.

  291. OnceUponATime,

    My husband and were just discussing your astute comment, and I realized that my entire experience in scientology might be understood in this simple way:

    When I walked into my first scientology mission, 32 years ago, any contribution of help was genuinely and enthusiastically appreciated.

    When I walked out of my last scientology org, 30 years later, I knew that no contribution, of money, time, or help, no matter how large, no matter how constant, would ever be enough.

  292. Yvonne Schick

    WOW! You just hit the nail on the head. My husband didn’t need to read a blog or understand tech outnesses. This very factor was enough for him to know the joy was gone. Thanks.

  293. James Lawson,
    I think you may have found a WHY, as per the Data Series, for a broader Situation –
    “Scientology recognized something all have been looking for, a recognition of their basic goodness and a fresh start. It is not surprising people flooded in.

    “And, it is not surprising that now, with the Miscavige Administration spreading the opposite idea, the idea that people are basically evil (and hence must be keep under constant inspection, threat and duress).”

    THAT opens the door to a Handling and the one the Independent Scientology field is applying – the recognition of the fundamental character of the being – his ethos – his basic goodness.

    The opposite idea that DM holds, spreads, dramatizes at every hand and which is manifested in those acting at his behest – that men and women are evil and must be restrained with ‘ethics’ , constant investigation in the form of Sec Checks, and the extreme duress and fear of mistakes (evil acts) leading to the one pitted against the other, is a workable WHY on what happened starting in the Sea Org and now spread as a lie and cancer throughout.

    James Lawson – WELL DONE!!!! That’s one of the best, most fundamental REAL WHYs I’ve seen expressed for the Situation. Brilliant. Spot on.

  294. Robert Earle,
    The most succinct statement that GAT is a bunch of bullshit that could be made, and directly from L. Ron Hubbard.

    Stuff that up your arse DM and Co.

    The Courseroom, Havana, Fla. NO GAT – Checksheets exactly as per the above L. Ron Hubbard data.

  295. Michael,
    I’m doing fargin’ well!!!!!!! Ridiculously well in fact.

    I’m going to grant that Grant is after all is said and what he’s done, basically good. James Lawson above has covered this really well.

    The fact that beings are basically good is fundamental to the workability of the remainder of the Technology of auditing, ethics the works.

    You are a clever boy, really smart, and skinny but powerful, but this premise you’re posting is utter poo. Yes, pooooooooooooooooo, like your feet, but stinkier.

    Your friend,
    Dog Breath

  296. Michael,
    Now that post is clean, cool, and refreshing. True dat.

    I like pie.

    You stink.

  297. And at DC by AnonSparrow once again !

  298. Lunamoth,

    Yeah, kind of disheartening to realize that no matter how much you contribute to something or someone you love, it will never be enough.

    Such horrible waste. Sucks the life right out of you.

    But, if someone is there to appreciate what you offer, life is so filled with rewarding moments.

    Sort of makes one wonder about the conditions of existence: the non-existence formula. How can you provide what is needed and wanted for someone in Enemy, Treason, Confusion, Doubt, or Liability? For someone at cross purposes (crass purposes?).

    In practical terms, what is the outcome of applying the non-existence formula in Miscaviage’s organization? Is it increased survival? On what dynamics?

    When you graph the products needed and wanted by the RCS, maybe your statistics are in normal, affluence or power, but what do those “products” do for the ultimate survival of those involved?

    If pleasure is a measure of survival, then reading this blog is very survival. Meeting all you guys is very survival.

    I think Marty really does understand and accept and appreciate all of our contributions, no matter how small they might seem, no matter that he doesn’t have time to acknowledge them each specifically. Which makes it much more pleasurable contributing. Which makes it much more survival.

    Not to mention what we get from one another.

  299. GetTheConcept


    Could you tell us more about this?


  300. Ingrid, It also didn’t help when Greg would drain the checking accounts repeatedly and give the money to the IAS, then order the sales team to drum up money to be able to make payroll within a few days. Eventually, there was no money for outreach or promotional actions and the company became insolvent. Greg abandoned the company and joined the Sea Org and went to work for DM. He later showed up in San Francisco and, without advanced warning, took over a local event to celebrate the anniversary of the opening of the SF org, canceled the planned agenda that many people had worked on for months, bullied event organizers, and turned it into a really boring Sea Org event with a video about the Freewinds. Attendees had paid $150 each to attend and had been promised an evening of entertainment, dancing and celebration. People had been looking forward to the event for months. He left a very upset field after that fiasco.

  301. Jim,

    There is nothing stinkier than my feet. My feet are the stinkierest of all stinkeriness. Poo of the most vile desecration is mildly malodorous by comparison. All major and minor militaries on this planet have tried in vain to discover how to weaponize that which these feet generate.

    And just because all beings are basically good doesn’t gainsay the observable datum that individuals can be real shitheads. And those real shitheads don’t get case gain usually (I’d hate to generalize, because I’m a real shithead at times and I have gotten a lot of case gain–delusional or not.) And some of those no case gain shitheads theoretically breezed right up the bridge. So, how was this possible given that they were being metered and demonstrated apparent tone arm action?

    That I err in such quantity is only a tribute to how many ideas I entertain. I consume ideas voraciously–which leads to a need for ridding the system of waste product. Since my alimentary (elimentary) canal isn’t involved, all of that waste material travels from my brain, via phantom neuron synapse pathways down to my feet. Thus the stench.

    Were I to consume only the lotus blossoms and manna of ideology, my feet would reek not. And my comments would be sufficiently enlightening to cause our readers to float beatifically beyond the grip of gravity.

    But, alas…

    Just consider me the dung beetle of ideology.

    Someone’s got to do it.

    ps. Glad to hear you’re doing ridiculously great, Dick-breath.

  302. James and Jim, I totally, totally f**king agree! Huge correct indication here!

  303. Yes – very well stated and succinct! I agree with Jim that this is the Why. Mr. David Miscavige has not practiced Scientology in years, if ever. I “tweeted” this on my twitter account ( @ahgrasshopper ). And it is incredible. Very incredible.

  304. Cowboy Poet

    Not really. If she’s any kind of a lady she probably would not have approved of the girlie audition/Operation Marriage Slappy put on for him.
    Mutual out ruds situation.
    (And not to say that TC doesn’t wonder but he probably keeps it to himself.)

  305. The shows are edited heavily. The shows have a script and it is not really a reality show. The customers are carefully selected and the story is fully developed to showcase the star. Don’t expect to see any failures on the show. I like the Dog Whisperer, because dogs don’t really follow a script and I just enjoy dogs. I haven’t seen Cardone’s show, so I can’t really say, but I would expect a book and other merchandise to be sold and the star to be developed into some sort of expert on turning failing businesses around. However, the star doesn’t have a story behind him. Cezar Milan came to the U.S. from Mexico as an illegal immigrant and turned his skill with dogs into a successful business. Cardone is a weasel who thinks that destroying the lives of others is OK.

  306. What does +1 mean?

  307. CP: TC is a total KoolAid drinker. All Dear Loser had to say was that Sheely was suppressing him “you know what ts like for us big beings Tom — we always have peanut thetans trying to bring us down, remember Nicole?”. Not another word need be said.

  308. Tony Dephillips

    That would be a good discussion. You always hear the “can get mad” part of ethics presence. Humans like to remember the easy parts. Its easy to get angry. But the part about it depending on ARC is given short shrift.

  309. Yeah, and after Debbie was nearly permanently maimed by being kept in the Hole for more than a year without proper medical treatment her daughters created such a stink that Greg and Debbie quietly left the Sea Org with a payoff and gag agreements.

    Their son Greg Jnr was also sent out of the SO.

    They now have a management consulting business utilizing Scientology comm lines. Look them up on Facebook.

    I am happy Debbie was finally given real medical treatment (the church finally ended up sending her to very expensive specialists to resolve the serious physical results of not treating her diabetes) and is now able to be properly cared for as she was a bright, extremely extroverted and social personality. I am sorry they chose the route of selling tgher souls — I doubt they felt they had much choice. People make those sort of decisions before they are in a position to understand the amount of help there is available to them — they believe they are walking out into the world with no money, no job and nowhere to go….

  310. Tony Dephillips


  311. GetTheConcept


    Just a hunch. Who came up with the song title “We Stand Tall”? Was it DM? If so, I suspect a bit of an “Assert” on that.


  312. Leonore, If you haven’t yet read the Jesse Prince’s taped interviews with Larry Wollersheim I suggest you do. There is plenty there that is shocking! You can google these as the Jesse Prince tapes. Jesse sec-checked Miscavige when he was handling the All Clear Unit. I believe Jesse’s account of what occurred, because from my few dealings with Jesse a long time ago, he was a real straight up guy. You can see the small inner circle that existed at that level under LRH and the cover-ups. People were thrown into the RPF for FAR LESS than what he committed. Also, the Tone Scale is a tool. Not so hard, I think, to predict his behavior and his sexual preferences once you plot him across the 1.1 – 1.5 bands. that he’s in. You already got it right with your observations of his anti-2D acts with children and families.

  313. Lol! Really!

  314. “I think Marty really does understand and accept and appreciate all of our contributions, no matter how small they might seem, no matter that he doesn’t have time to acknowledge them each specifically.”

    Marty and I have had numerous discussions about this exact point. You nailed his viewpoint precisely.

  315. Greg Hughes was in the SO for many years. Finally routed out a year or two and is doing his WISE thing again living in Oklahoma. Greg suffered his share of crap under DM since he was at various times the GI Exec Int and you can imagine how that went for him, DM made fun of him mercilessly but Greg was always the poster boy for insouciance for all the years I knew him and it always seemed to roll off his back. I think he and his wife had to leave on account of a medical condition she has. Greg has a website for his consulting business. Man, I wish he would pull his head out of his backside and kick the Kool Aid. He is fabulous guy at heart. Loved LRH unreservedly.

  316. Marty, Well, I just got a little package today from guess who. Minerva. Whats a minerva anyway? No return address. There was a note inside that said ” It has come to our attention that Marty Rathbun is auditing PCs who are smoking dope.” Included is a copy of ‘Truth about drugs’. How these people got my mailing address I don’t know. I really don’t care either. I’m just glad that they know I’m alive. This black PR is having no effect on people who know the Truth. What a waste of time and ‘Church’ money. Love

  317. Amy, you think you’re low? You can’t touch me. I just scraping by as an abstract painter! And I was a J&D artist in kindergarten.

  318. Dan — See my commet too. I worked with her daughter (Becky) to help get them out. His head up his ass is a result of being bought off and thinking this was the only way he could survive and keep Debbie getting the medical care she needed (no guaranteed government health care makes it much easier to keep the strings attached to those leaving the SO — especally if they have an existing medical condition).

  319. morelivesthanacat

    Mark Sheckter a Canadian writer (very talented with a production record, and erstwhile SO member for a short period at GOLD) wrote the song and titled it. It was written after the Portland Crusade of 1984 when LRH was still around, and for its intended meaning and inspiration, is a great song about a great man. DM had it re-written by the Gold musicians (various ones had a hand at it under constant reject and criticism) for the NY 2000 event. Just another re-write of history in a long chain of re-writes authored by or ordered and approved by the great midget.

  320. I’m sorry to hear about Debbie. I remember her the same way you describe – bright, extremely extroverted and social. I would add that she was a dedicated mother of those three kids and a devoted wife to Greg.

  321. Sargio — We have had 4 delivered to our house. The stamps are all on them, but some phantom puts them in the mailbox as the stamps arent canceled! We put them in the trash to save trees. The church then picks them up and send them out to someone else I guess. What is incredible is this latest campaign they are running about Marty. Minervozo (the love(?)child of Bozo the Clown and Minerva) says almost every day in one of his “ambush” interviews: “We would like to hear your side of the story (riiiight…) concerning Marty Rathbun using marijuana as part of his religious counseling…” It’s laughable and made up totally out of whole cloth — but I realized WHY this line. Scientologists arent buying “They are just SP’s” or even “They are squirrels” so they have to come up with something that is easy for Scientologists to grasp. Mixing drugs and auditing instantly says to any Scientologist “squirrel”. They will repeat it so often that it becomes “true” and their effort wth someone like you or me is to create a little doubt “I wonder what this is about? Is it true?” And how do you prove it isnt? Easiest thing in the world to pay someone to become an “agent”, have them contact Marty, then claim he told them it was not a problem to smoke marijuana and get auditing…

    I supposed I dont really need to explain this to anyone who reads this blog — but I felt compelled to comment as it is one of the oldest Black PR tricks there is to do this sort of thng. See the programs Marty earlier published on Chuck Beatty and Tori Christman.

    Anyway Sarge, glad you havent been forgotten 🙂 🙂 See you soon!

  322. Agree with you Sue.

  323. Oh gag…. Vanity and conspicuous nouveau riche-ness at its lowest level. He really IS a Dear Loser clone!

  324. I enjoy that show. A lot could be learned by being more “dog-like.” Always in living in the moment.

  325. Joe-You really got it.

  326. This whole “out 2D” thing is used to ser fac on people and restimulate case. Do you ever hear anyone saying “out 3D” “Out 4D” “out 7D” ? Just think about it. You cannot police the other dynamics like that, because of the obvious freedom of choice along those dynamics. And get real, whenever you are creating on the 2D you are IN 2D. Out 2d is what Nuns are doing. To understand the spin in effect of this, imagine “out 1D”. Two pounds overweight? OUT 1D! Forgot to dental floss this morning? OUT 1D! Didn’t take your multi vitamin this morning? OUT 1D! Didn’t hit the gym at 4 a.m. for a cardio work out? OUT 1D! Got a cavity? OUT 1D! Just think of these standards being run down on society already and how many times throughout the day you would need to beat yourself up to think like that.

  327. martyrathbun09

    Note to anyone who has received the uncancelled stamp version of the Minerva letter about me in their mail boxes please hold on to the evidence. There is a major investigation in progress for violation of Federal mail law ongoing.

  328. ” It has come to our attention that…..”

    Awwwww he imitates Anonymous

  329. martyrathbun09

    You never will Dan unless you have several hundred thousand dollars to replace those given to him by DM for his silence and couple mill to defend the suit the cult would then file against him for violating his contract not to pull his loser, coward head out of his ass. Sorry for the language but can’t think of anything more appropriate for those willing to sell their souls.

  330. And don’t you think it is just a little bit funky that in the Sea Org, if someone isn’t getting laid at all they are considered in 2D? And if someone is pregnant they are considered out 2D?

  331. Just another 1.1 method of suppressing dissemination and making sure Scientology doesn’t spread. The Orgs and Missions boomed in the 60’s and 70’s when people would come in and sign up for a course looking for love. I can’t recall the last time I saw a child in an Org but I think it was in 1976.

  332. Marty, You got it big guy. I’ll bring it with me. Its definitely uncancelled. Love

  333. Obviously Martin knows just in case some of you don’t it’s against FEDERAL LAW to open someone else’s mailbox and put things inside. It is against the law to open someones mailbox and look through their mail.

    The mailboxes are Federal property. ONLY a postal person can open and close a mailbox. You can’t even hang political notices on them.

    NOTHING. No touchy.

    That is why newspapers sometimes have little “newspaper” mailboxes next to your
    mailbox. You can hang political messages there without going to jail.


  334. Right on Marty, I have mine!

  335. Sue-Now my memory is really coming back. Revein ,who was an IAS reg really found a patsy in Greg. Debbie ,who was handling finances battled with Greg over all the donos he was making aside from other financial issues. Revein said Debbie was An SP( no one was going to get in the way of his reg cycles) “Nice” Greg was such a tough guy wannabe.
    It was the worst team I have ever worked with-I was constantly pulling knives out of my back. I tried appealing to Greg to get some ethics in. One time when I was the top sales person, Randy threw a temper tantrum in front of me and Greg that would put any 2 year old to shame, because somehow he should’ve gotten the prospects that I got. Greg never put any ethics in and that is why I sat down with him when I left and told him he was in treason. Greg is a nice guy who never figured out who his friends are.

  336. And that grip is indeed threatened by DM’s OWN personal and group aberrations {including family values} almost exclusively.

    Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! 🙂

  337. simonbolivar

    1 new indipendent clear in Italy also, just a couple of days ago. Let’s carry on this way. Got it Dave?

  338. Ingrid:

    This is a very good point to stress here. WISE.

    WISE People think nothing of going up to church member in whatever way suits them for money. If that church member owns a hair salon, and is making a modest $4,000.00 a week. WISE Members will pressure and coerce that person into paying them money, or else. Look at the situation like this Ingrid. If a person is cutting and combing and coloring mostly women’s hair 6 days a week, what good would it do to have an Org Board and a Division 1 at the beauty parlor? To disseminate DM’s BS to people that come in for perm’s? You talk about ridiculous!
    Especially if that business only has 1 other employee?

    Pardon me DM, but it is OK if I color my girlfriends hair without having to drop what I am doing and head to Flag for a briefing?

    For goodness sakes Ingrid, it is this exact kind of ridiculous WISE and corporate Scientology behavior that really, really, does, make people shake their heads about Scientology.

    “Lana. Are you a beautician? That’s great sweetheart. NOW GIVE US AT WISE $100,000.00 to help you”.

  339. Cowboy Poet

    The artist and the suppressive, I guess. But still, that aint drinkin KoolAid, Mike. If it’s that bad, that’s a KoolAid enema.
    Cherry or grape?

  340. The fella’ looking up at the beginning of the video could be Mike Adams.

  341. simonbolivar

    So you mean that DM is out 4D? 😀

  342. Not to mention the Freudian take on the mater. Oh I just did 😉

  343. Nobody is a saint including the founder.

  344. For those people that have recently joined the blog, or aren’t caught up to speed it would be great if you, mike or Joe (really anyone in the know), would post a quick who’s out list that has some significance, like Debbie Cook, Greg Hughes, etc.. Because of the mystery surrounding who is really left as so many people have disappeared, one wouldn’t not know if they are just in the hole or they are actually out.






  346. Mike:

    I am not a doctor, but I do know this, giving rice and beans to a diabetic is an overt, due to the high carbohydrate content of both of these foods that a diabetic cannot assimilate properly. If that is not criminal medical unprofessional deliberate negligence than nothing is.

    That is shocking and horrifying! I would be concerned for my well being in a place like that where “SO Members are treated like Ron’s personal team”.

    I am mortified, and as with many startling facts that have come forth since my reading this BLOG more closely, I had not heard of Debbie’s plight until you mentioned it.

    The Church of Scientology just keep getting worse and worse don’t they? Well, I’ve got news for the public. Corporate Scientology is not based an actually applied LRH technology or any kind of sound medical tech that is common knowledge to ANYONE that knows a person that is diabetic.

    DM Probably thought that was cute. Well, Mike, let’s hope for DM that his prostate gland doesn’t pop out of his ass one day in public.

  347. Theoracle — Thank you for this! Never looked at it this way. Certainly blows some charge on some (often self-made) wrong indications!

  348. They are hand-delivering them??????

  349. Dan – LOL. That takes the cake!

  350. Does the Turnaround Specialist turn around Ideal Orgs?

  351. Mike, What I don’t understand. They paid the postage, why not just send it through the mail? The only reason I can think of is they believe it’s intimidating to the person receiving it. “We know where you live, we were at your house’. Shit! Don’t share me! Bring it on! Only next time I want to see a face. Cowards! Love

  352. Hope you kept your CF of people you got into the Church so you can reg them gain but this time for Scientology.

  353. Wow! 3 clears by 2 groups in 1 week; that’s more than the years total of Davey’s fastest growing religion on the planet.

  354. I agree with you actually.
    The attacks on him were wrong.
    Only meant to say, and poorly I suppose, was that it is possible there is some truth to the allegations.
    Correct there are no “saints” . I was only alluding to some that tend to paint MK as such.
    I no longer drink the Kool-aid. Neither the CofS or Milton’s.

  355. Cowboy Poet

    Good one!!

  356. For the record, as a Scientologist since before puberty, I have never smoked pot, did any street drugs of any kind, do not smoke, rarely drink, and did not get anyone pregnant out of wedlock. While many, many Scientologist friends of mine USED to smoke pot and take drugs pre-Scn, their involvement with Scientology helped free them from the ravages of their youthful involvement.

    None of my friends in Scientology ever did any drugs, to a fault in cases (refusing Tylenol for major pain, for example).

    So, this hit by OSA/Mr. David Miscavige/Minerva is completely ridiculous and unfounded.

    What you will NOT see us Independents doing is writing the kind of 1.1 salacious drivel that Minerva Miscavige writes, nor will you see any of us in silly T-Shirts and hats looking like clowns in front of the world, and you will not see us counseling under-aged girls into silence on child molestation or forcing them into getting abortions – or just neglecting them entirely.

    So, stuff that in your joint and smoke it, Minerva OSA Miscavige!

  357. Right on, Marty, WH, Carol, Sarge, Colwell, Linda McG, everybody who got one of these goofy packages. Save the packages And handle them carefully to preserve the perpetrators’ fingerprints.

    In our community, the only people who don’t know you aren’t supposed to put your paws inside a USPS mailbox that isn’t yours (unless you’re a USPS employee) are 14-year-old vandals and cranked up meth freaks.

    And last I heard, every one of those children and mental inadequates had been hauled in front of a Federal judge for doing so. The adults were all sent to jail. And some of the kids, I hear, almost wish they’d been sentenced, given how pissed their parents are at them.

    Apparently, Leblow, Minervabozo and their friends don’t even know the most basic laws they must observe to avoid jail time!


  358. lana- I found a lot of people putting money into WISE that should’ve used it for the Bridge instead (of course, not anymore in the Church.)

  359. Sociopath Buster

    The OSA YouTube video smearing Mark, Mike and Danny was flagged. YouTube is on the ball and restricted the viewing of the grotesque animation. You have to sign in and be over 18 to see it — #FLUNKIE poo, OSA. #Flunk for libel, slander and not being able to contain your vile venom so much the whole world is on to your dirty tricks and puts a MUZZLE on your antisocial social network practices.

    No amount of talking stirs you OSA because you are in the throws of justification ad zealotry but thought the readers of this blog would get some relief from the wee bit of justice on that OSA #FAIL

  360. Sociopath Buster

    OSA — in the puerile puppetry of robotic following of orders — got offended when they read people calling them Photoshop hacks for drawing puerile horns and weird distortions on people they’re hating on. They only make themsevles (and Scientology) look grotesque in the process.

    So they hired some out of work political cartoonist to draw spiffy 60’s style political cartoons of Mark Rathbun and Mike Rinder for their illegal libel “faux Marty blogs” and are clueless at how out of touch and outdated their “commentary” is. LOONY TUNES! And they are making dorky “animation” that only 2% of the world’s population would find wickedly “funny” … no one is swallowing the candy coated Black Ops toxins spewing from mentally ill sociopathically run corporations that YouTube and Twitter MUZZLE for being ANTISOCIAL. That’s you, David MIscavige.

  361. +1 means I agree with you.

  362. 🙂


    You are a princess!


  363. Sociopath Buster

    I’ve confirmed the only people “Liking” Grant Cardone on Facebook are Scientologists..

    They were instructed to pull all-nighters to get their Thursday at 2 Facebook “likes” up on the greasy morally bankrupt Grant Cardone.

    Nevertheless, the guy is a greasy #FAIL and National Geographic has been either infiltrated or seriously conned.

  364. Thanks. I will definitely look this up as I have not read it. My experiences with Larry Wollersheim were that he did some really whackadoodle things way before he got into the lawsuit issue – back when he was in SO, on staff, etc. I never understood how he got cleared for NOTs – as the 1st completion even, but that’s another story. As a result, I’ve not really paid much attention to what Wollersheim did/said. I would like to hear what Jesse Prince had to say, though.

    The shocking thing to me is the brazen, sordid squandering of Church money – when LRH was still around, no less! It’s not so much the sexual promiscuity which is as you said, predictable by the chart of human evaluation. That’s just ordinary homo sap stuff. My experience with orgs was that every dime was accounted for and cherished, and public sacrificed to pay for their services. How anyone could have even had access to thousands to squander so callously and then others ignore it, is what is shocking.

    Thanks again for the reference.


  365. Mike:

    Good thing I don’t work for the church because GOD forbid if they ever got their hands on this little piece of tech. Have you ever head the Japanese Old Wise Man’s Phrase “Caught red handed”? There is a reason for it.

    Hundreds of years ago the Japanese dowagers would guard their gold by having the subservancies PAINT the solid gold statues and ornaments with Urushiol.

    Urushiol: An oily organic compound found in Poison Ivy, Posion Oak and Poison Sumac plants that produces an allergic contact dermatitis response in humans when they come in contact with the plant, if the oil is not removed from the skin with soap and water within 30 minutes of contact.


    People that attempted to steal the gold could succeed to a degree but within one or two days would get a rash that would “reveal them” as the thieves who stole the gold to the people.

    I was considering perhaps doing this to my mailbox to see if I could catch one of these people red handed. But there won’t be any gold involved! {LOL}

  366. Questions from H.

    Why does the Cult of MissCavige (under the pretense of attacking “squirrels”) only attack people who love LRH and Scientology. Very bizarre. You’d think he’d have more important targets.

    Why aren’t people who really alter /abuse Scientology being attacked with the malice and bile the mentally ill MissCavage seems to level at good people with social personalities (loved and high ability to communicate)?

    Why isn’t the Scientologist Grant Cardone being called out on “other practices”? Or is he “sneaking in” the bait (motivational speaking) with the switch ponzi scheme. That is what Scientology does: align itself with some community group, only to toss and dispose of them once they’re achieved the advantage to further the cultified hidden agenda?

    Is “motivational speaking” considered an “acceptable lie” for the humpy camel to get its big nose under the tent of National Geographic?

  367. +1 on Equilibrium; I saw it a 2nd time recently through very different eyes. A must see for Indies and KA drinkers alike. Right up there with The Lives of Others.

  368. Questions from H.

    It’s called “lying”. What Scientology has unfortunately become known for.

  369. Awesome!!! Well done 😀

  370. Yes Sarge:

    All that postage money in the garbage. Corporate Scientology is just fools and more fools.

    Is there something illegal about sending someone a letter in the mail? Has anyone ever been arrested before for going to the post office and mailing a letter to someone?

    Why do these OSA people think it is better to communicate with people in this covert way than up front and in real life? I have never figured it out!

    I thought I had read enough LRH books over time to know why most people could have problems but when it comes to OSA I must have missed something.

  371. I don’t recall seeing Jack on the Apollo.

  372. Tony Dephillips

    I got one too.

  373. As this video gains more attention 320k views and rising it would be great if folk could highlight those who have left the Co$.

    So far I note only 12 key ones but in the background there must be more.

    Either post here or leave a comment somewhere which is easy to find if you don’t wish to visit various sites around the globe.


  374. That’s brilliant.

    It did always sound odd, “out 2-d” being the only “out” anyone ever commented on.
    That’s been a tickler in the back of my head for a long time!
    Thank you for commenting on this. My needle is floating!!! 🙂

  375. Sarge,
    Perhaps the criminal mind PL applies here. They’ve been smoking too much pot! Aside from the single malt Scotch.

  376. Tony Dephillips

    Some very good points Oracle.

  377. Tony Dephillips

    Keep in mind that he most likely went PTS to all the Dm out tech and sec checking. Probably drove him down the tone scale.

  378. Marty,
    I got my Minerva letter and saved the envelope and evidence inside. I’m glad to hear there is an investigation regarding this matter.

    🙂 Lori

  379. martyrathbun09

    Because it sends a message to the recipient that “we have been to your mailbox, Putz, we are everywhere; you have reason to fear us.”

  380. martyrathbun09

    Because he is a great Black Dianeticist and that is what DM peddles and delivers now. It is all about RESTIMULATION. And Grant is a great restimulator. Covered in an HCOB by LRH, the SP’s only power is restimulation.

  381. Thanks Marty.

    I don’t think it is a good idea that they do this, because I do not fear them, in the event that I should get some wierd unpostmarked letters to my house.

    I am sure they do this in latex gloves so as not to leave fingerprints, so they will have to be keeping close tabs on the people the letters are delivered to, so as to know when they will go unnoticed “delivering the mail”.

    You know what I say Marty, I say to OSA “Go right ahead honey, because at that hour of the morning I am usually sleeping like everybody else, not running around people’s neighborhoods doing that”.



  382. James Arthur Ray Found Guilty in Sweat Lodge Deaths
    The self-help guru is convicted of negligent homicide and faces up to 11 years in prison. This trial took place in my County and James never thought he would be found guilty.

    Pay attention Grant!

  383. Agreed.

  384. Robert Earle

    Nope not Mike Adams….don’t remember his name but he is from Boulder, Colorado.

  385. Yes, brilliant! And this whole, “out 2-D” thing goes back at least as far as my 1st staff experience in 1971. The term is a generality (never stating what the real lack of ethics is) and further, promotes inhibited communication on the whole subject, and distancing (Out A) from the person being accused.

    Yeah, LOTS of BDFN items here. Thank you!

  386. I’m so bummed. I didn’t get one. My husband is even more disappointed than I am. 🙂

  387. Mmmmm smells like RICO

  388. Gag is right …. hey look at me and my MEST.

    Reminds me of the status OT that frequented the Lemon Tree or on the ship.

    Just like an Idle Org – all glitz, no substance.

  389. Good point. Tho, there is also the hideous “Flash Gordon” shirt/sweater he is wearing that would say otherwise, unless it encompasses, “too hideous to be believed” and there is also the PL on Ethics Presence where tallness of stature would indeed be seen as a plus. The problem with Shorty, however, is that he operates totally in the realm of presence, never-mind the ethics of it.

  390. a bit off topic, but is now topping in
    traffic rank, reach, pageviews, time on site,


    keep up the good work!

  391. Just another THANK YOU MARTY RATHBUN on this post!! I wasn’t in the Church for very long – quite a short time. There was a lot I didn’t get and a lot I didn’t understand, but also a huge number of outpoints and an environment that I couldn’t be a part of…but a few things:

    * In the late-90s/early-00s, the clearest, most rational internet critics of CoS were focused on corporate structure, taxes, finance and management (partially inspired of course by Veritas). And “Marty Mark Rathbun” as he was referred to at the time, was one of the central figures of this inquiry. And he certainly proved to be more than central!! It was said at the time that Marty “appeared to be under wraps” while Barbara Schwarz talked about him being in a secret prison. Both were right, though none knew it at the time. Anyway, Marty was fascinating then too.

    * During my brief stint with the CoS, the editions of “High Winds” that were published with MANY articles/interviews/notes by Int Mgmt folks: Marty Rathbun, Mark Rinder, Guillaume Lesevre, Mark Ingber, Ray Mithoff, Mark Yager, Liz Ingber, etc – and the events with ALL of the Int Execs – were actually pretty inspiring and made one want to join the SO. David Miscavige wasn’t all that special at the time – of course this was well into the 1990s, but at the public/staff/Class V level there just didn’t seem to be the mystique of COB that currently exists. DM was not even close to my favorite event speaker, and the whole vision of a committed GROUP of people pushing forward Scientology was incredibly appealing. Miscavige all the time, COB alone – doesn’t even come close to provoking the desire to be part of such a group.

    *The viewpoints are awesome, as are the occasional political/social comments. It’s great to hear progressive voices in this area, sometimes there are very few (and that goes for critics as well as CoS).

  392. theoracle

    The church is very fond of telling people that they are “out 2D” and though they do not say it in those terms, they are very active in evaluating a person’s activities on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, Dynamics as “out”.

    This, of course, simply means that they are not aligned with David Miscavige’s case, or his obviously twisted concept of what the Dynamics are at all. From DM’s point of view, I am sure he feels that any activity, on any Dynamic, that does not contribute directly to David Miscavige is quite obviously OUT ETHICS.

    I have also found that even to many Scientologists, the only 3rd Dynamic, or the entirety of the 3rd Dynamic, is Scientology itself. No other 3rd Dynamics are acceptable. A person’s participation in pretty much any other Group (3rd Dynamic) is labeled as “other fish to fry”, or “out ethics”, unless it directly contributes to the Church, and often, even then.

    Eric S

  393. OnceUponaTime/Tony

    A very brief statement of my concept of what “ethics Presence” in essence is.

    To the degree that a person is LIVING his Code of Honor, and has his integrity fully IN, and is “IN ARC” across his Dynamics, I consider he has ETHICS PRESENCE.

    Eric S

  394. WindWalker:

    You are right. You made me think of something I have not thought about in a long time. The SO #1 Line.

    Do you remember years ago when LRH was alive there was the SO #1 Line whereby all mail addressed to LRH was received by him and answered?

    Well isn’t that just the cat’s meow that DM is according to him “the busiest man in the world” as COB and as such he is so busy being in comm with people he doesn’t even have an SO #1 line to himself and is too busy to do that anyway.

    I believe LRH once wrote that if what something done give it to a busy man.

    Well that would count DM BS Artist out of the picture now wouldn’t it?


  395. Yes, may package withe Black Ops on Marty preserved for fingerprints.
    Again nine came in with uncancelled stamps.
    How can the Post Office not stamp any of the packages ?
    Avoiding Postal Inspectors by no post office imprint on stamps ?

    Minerva has a nerve to have his signature/name on attack-dog Malicious Tabloid Fantasy web sites
    and send us mail at the same time ~~ that we would give any credence to.

    What universe do they live in ?

  396. I knew Jack and Irene at the FLB, not the Apollo. I was in a lot of places. YOu mean Robert F. is STILL in? Wow!!!! Revolt in the Stars was “optioned” by a mission Kerry Gleeson did in 1977 or 78, after he completed the RPF. It was soon considered a disaster because it was optioned to somebody who paid the 20 grand or so but was not really a producer or bank roller. He was just a Scientologist business man who wanted to champion LRH into Hollywood. I saw Bob when I joined the Sea Org and studied under his wife Marilyn at CCSF. Yes, there was a CCSF and Bob I think started it. Yvonne did Poetry by Candlelight there on the night I joined the S.O.

  397. In war, truth is the first casualty.
    -Aeschylus, Greek tragic dramatist (525 BC – 456 BC)

  398. Also, that is how Jessie Prince was “opped” in CW. Someone conveniently left a pot plant on his property one day for the local police to “find”. An attempted repeat of this “successful action” would not surprise me.

    Price of Freedom – “Constant alertness….constant willingness to fight back….there is no other price.”

  399. Barney Rubble


    I hear ya, Your OBS are dead on on. I hope and wish you continue the forwarding of this shit,

  400. martyrathbun09

    Your second sentence is absolute bullshit. Don’t know where you got it, but wherever it was you can chalk that up in your credibility column for that source.

  401. martyrathbun09

    I think you might be hanging with the lulz crowd too much. It does not support your second sentence. You are dubbing in man.

  402. I didn’t rate either. Maybe I need to do something to be mre visible. I’m really bummed.

  403. “Out 2d is what Nuns are doing.”

  404. That wasn’t the worst of it. For a contact assist:

  405. Tony Dephillips

    Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

  406. OSA doesn’t even know how obvious their comments are

    “Evie Havok promoted by formergr
    Mon 20 Jun 2011 2:32 PM
    Eh. They’re not all bad. I grew up in front of one of their headquarters (they call it Big Blue) in Los Angeles. We have security, a kind of nice and no-parking street, and no homeless people (they got rid of them). They’ve kind of made this place nice.

    Also, I so remember this song. Every year on L. Ron Hubbard’s birthday they would blast it and a couple of other songs on their speakers. I kind of miss the carnivals and festivals they used to have. No more free food and rides.

    Seriously, most of these people are leading OK lives. I see them driving around in Lexus’s, BMWs, Benz’s, etc (I see the parents of scientology kids dropping them off in uber nice cars, too). It’s only when you sign those contracts that you sign up for trouble. The truth is that most of these people aren’t in the Sea Org.

    ETA: I’m not a Scientologist. I just happen to live near them, have experience dealing with them, and don’t really think that they’re that bad”

  407. kidnapping, torture and witholding medical treatment untill death

  408. Joy Graysen

    Well, I love a Gucci purse just as much as the next girl (probably more…) BUT right now my last 7 meals are rising in my throat to such a degree that there may be a torpedo launch in Sherman Oaks – look for it on your evening news…
    What in the holy mother of FUCK IS she? No REALY? This is so far beyond a Stepford wife…
    She used to be such a sweet, gentle girl. She’s become like her Gucci bag. Beautiful mest.
    They are using her as a Vanna White, a game show model, there to show off the shiny prizes you MIGHT get when you appear on the game show. That is after you’ve been hypnotized and implanted by all the commercials in between the main attraction implant.
    So sad. Corporate pimping running wild.

  409. Don’t understand what you mean by “mystery plowing” as I never got too deep into Scientology. I did make a generality as it would take way too long to write specifics. Milton himself said on many occasions that he was “no saint” or something quite like that. Also I am not big on the “out 2-D” business. I believe in consent and am against the puritanical nature of the CofS.
    To be quite clear I am very far from a DM devotee. I bow to no one but my own conscience.
    I was making reference only to the aspect of Milton being very open about his independent nature.
    Also I don’t understand the immediate response of “attack” and assumption on these boards. I suppose that is the nature of a comment section on a blog.
    It was not my intention to offend.

  410. martyrathbun09

    “These boards” is a inappropriate generality.

  411. Lol Too Much! How is this, Grant “raising awareness” as he puts it.

    I can’t stop….. So surreal!

  412. He seems like an offspring of Tom Cruise and David Miscavige.

  413. Jim, Just Me, GH – I deeply appreciate your validation.

    Thank you for being there and for being real Scientologists.

    And, thank you to Marty, Mike, Mosey, and the many others of great courage and integrity, leading the way.

    LRH and his intentions for the salvation of Beings will not be abandoned;

    We will not allow the greatest creation in the history of the world to remain corrupted and mistakenly despised.


  414. Here’s my reaction to Grant Cordone’s facebook page. It looks like he has been a media consultant for Fox News. He also has “media” pictures with Joan Rivers. Doesn’t he know that Joan did a whole show on the evils of the Church of Scientology? I guess he was in diapers when that went down. The Fox News thing is a deal-breaker for me. He is all about spin.

  415. Robert Earle

    Mike Owens

  416. Really? Ok fine, this particular comment section of this particular blog post.
    You win.

  417. Like, if they mated this is what their son would look like.

  418. Mike Hobson

    Everyone: Heads Up! Somebody on Facebook is now impersonating Milton Katselas and sending invites to Indies. I have reported this fake to Facebook.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  419. It appears that the show was not picked up after 2 episodes. TV watching America can not stomach blatant (only one) ego. If there is one thing that Grant puts out there, thats it. On another morale compass (lack there of) front. Apparently, Grant buys his own books on Amazon and ships them to one association, from another. A friend of mine runs an auto dealer association and showed me the shipping label of a case of books. It was from another association president to him, bought and paid for on He thought it was odd that this person would send him a case of books, so he called him to question the authenticity. The guy knew nothing of the purchase or shipping. There are over 100 Auto Dealer Associations in America alone, it adds up. That’s quite an ethical way to try to get on the best sellers list. I suspect there or former members that can speak of this practice. I worked with Grant for about 7 years. In spite of his ego, he has some very decent qualities (obviously under the influence of a non decent group). However, he was constantly involved in dealings similar to the nasty letter sent out / retracted and the book scheme, then running around and trying to enforce ethics on members of his group like there was no tomorrow. The group was in constant chaos and it was every ones fault but Grants. I will say this, as it relates to the retraction, someone put him in reverse FAST, and that is rare. But as one writer stated, there wasnt a hint of responsibility in the retraction. But a strong air of coveryourassability.

  420. You should look into his early years for more information on him. I knew him in junior high and high school and he was just as smarmy back then. He also has a twin brother, which I never hear him talk about. His name is Gary. The last I heard he was working for an oil company in Texas. In an executive position, I believe. Not sure if he is part of Scientology or not, but if he isn’t that would explain why Grant doesn’t mention him. They were somewhat popular back in the day, but also jerks to anyone not in their little group. You know the type. Better than everyone else and only out for themselves. Not sure what the decent qualities are you spoke of Shawn, but I’ll take your word for it. All I know is I never saw any kindness in him during the 8+ years we went to school together. Maybe it is there and I just never witnessed it. When I watched the show, it just reminded me why I steered clear of him all those years ago. He hasn’t changed or progressed at all. Very sad. He has money and ego, but that is about it. Oh yes, and of course the standard “model” for a wife.

  421. Pingback: Dissociation and Denialism | Moving On Up a Little Higher

  422. Looks to me like Cardone did exactly what Darth Midget wanted him to and then got thrown under the Ethics bus for it.

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist

  423. Pingback: “You want me to show you the fucking money? You really want it? Then show me the receipts!!!” | Scientology Celebrities & Human Rights

  424. Milton ran the BHP like an Est workshop. It was a horrible place of squirrel practices – heavy eval and inval in front of the whole class, stupid things like, “did you have issues with your mother? – oh that explains why you can’t act!” or “what’s your cultural heritage?” and explaining everything wrong with the actor/his work (there was no difference). Ridiculous and manipulative tactics! Giving students items while standing on stage, in front of the whole class, both “whys’ and PTS items. Telling students to disconnect from people in their lives. Milton and Gary Imhoff loved to order women to do sexually provocative scenes so they could get over their body/sexual issues. Milton and Gary both humiliated anyone who disagreed with them. Both were megalomaniacs who wanted to be worshipped. Both were FSMing via their teaching, but had other students do the body routing, so Milton could appear to be not involved, but he did get the $$ and it was a great side business. Milton funneled public into CC and into the SO, in all the years after he didn’t want to do it anymore.

    Milton’s classes never ended. You had to pay whether you went or not, there was no EP, no moving on. Kind of like SCN. It had a cult-like atmosphere. Milton’s big assignment: they had actors do “scenes” of bringing tons of items from their home and pretending to suffer a terrible calamity – like the death of a loved one. According to his teaching, you were supposed to actively re-stimulate yourself so you could act well in the scene. Milton was not a good guy. He was a mini-Miscavige. Institutional Scientology attracts criminals and megalomaniacs. Like Cardone.

  425. Helmuth, speaking for Boskone

    He certainly has no reservation on preying on the membership (and DM gets his cut).

  426. ethisphere369

    I hope you realize that this article does nothing but help Grant. If you knew how many struggling salespeople have flourished through proper usage of his training it would blow your mind. Who cares what his religion is? I’m very happy you posted this because it drives his point home that if you want to be successful you need to get some haters.

  427. Its amazing how these people talking about Grant like this back days,they don’t get the fact right and just keep talking and talking,didn’t you guys feel good in the process…wow. Grant had his success through his Real Estate investment . and he is probably the most authentic person i have ever seen .He is so willing to be himself , that he’s not afraid of creating haters . he’s so dedicated to help people that I feel really bad seeing guys like you trying to take nice people down like this .

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