There is not likely to be much breaking news on Debbie Cook’s mission for a while: Cook re-iterates intention to handle it internally. So, let us not continue to kid ourselves that it is as simple as getting people to pledge allegiance to “following policy.” People dedicatedly defending David Miscavige fully believe they are following policy.
David Miscavige has quite apparently implanted a new End Phenomena (the state or ability achieved by participating in a given grade of one on one counseling) for the auditing technique known as Objectives. It is evident from the fact that Objectives are being run in huge, arbitrary blocks of time on corporate Scientologists at all levels of Scientology. You can see the latest evidence in the mass email below this post from Barbara Dews, a prominent “Service Consultant” for Flag (Corporate Scientology’s “Mecca of Technical Perfection” in Clearwater Florida) sent to corporate Scientologists far and wide. The missive seeks to demonstrate that everybody at every level of the Bridge ought to condition their minds to accept the need for massive doses of Objectives. The email ends off with this brag as to time of delivery:
In the TRs and Objectives course room in the Coachman, we’ve been completing people in a average of 130 hours.
Now, if I were sitting at my desk as Inspector General of RTC circa 2003 and received a report that a Scientology drug rehabilitation center Narconon (servicing only heavy drug addicts who require the most hours of Objectives) was averaging 130 hours on each drug addict, Narconon would received a mission to correct its grotesque out-tech. Now, understand – the majority of those receiving an average of 130 hours of Objectives at the “Mecca” currently are Clears and “OTs”.
When one completes Objectives one is in present time, able to stay in present time, and is able to receive, duplicate, understand and carry out a clearly stated, simple direction. Wonder of wonders, the person being run on Objectives recognizes that he or she is in charge of his or her own mind, body and destiny. That is the purpose of Objective processing.
Most people who are not very seriously damaged bio-chemical personalities can achieve that intended end phenomena in an intensive (12 1/2 hour block of counseling) or two. That is assuming one is being audited by an auditor and not a mind control specialist.
Now, assume most folks achieve that result in a couple, maybe even a few, intensives and they continue on for an average of 130 hours. What then is happening for the next one hundred hours (note, OT’s are being required to pay Class IX rates for their objectives)?
Simple. That person is learning to carry out meaningless, senseless, and expensive orders for hours on end while exuding a bright, cheery (read The Stepford Wives, The Truman Show, The Manchurian Candidate) attitude.
In other words, the perfect deployable agent willing to sign over one’s life savings, give away his children to a cult, dress up in a goofy uniform and make a clown of himself in the street with a camera taped to his head, you name it.
David Miscavige’s new Golden Age of Objectives End Phenomena:
Able and quite happy to carry out meaningless, expensive orders until one’s savings are depleted, one’s family is sundered, and one’s integrity is non-existent. Able to listen to, duplicate and believe hours of David Miscavige’s tortured, misquoted tidbits of L Ron Hubbard writings to make them stand for precisely the opposite of what they were intended to achieve.
You think I am overstating the case? Here is what L Ron Hubbard had to say about overrun on 4 October 1978 in a “confidential” HCOB – the quoted passage containing NOTHING THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL:
An overrun flow eventually winds up with unconsciousness, and that would wind up to hypnotism. Hypnotism is the state of being under the duress of another’s command.
Can Scientology be any more corrupted than this?
The email from Flag Service Consultant:
From: Barbara Dews <email@example.com>
To: Barbara Dews <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 8:15 pm
Subject: Here is a Technical Briefing regarding TRs and Objectives!
Technical Briefing regarding TRS and OBJECTIVES
Objectives are placed on The Bridge after the Purification Rundown and before the Grades. Ideally, a preclear newly starting on The Bridge will receive a full battery of Objectives to EP at this point and be set up to fly up the rest of the Grade Chart.
The Objectives are a vital part of setting any preclear up for the rest of their auditing on The Bridge. They also help handle the adverse affects that drugs have on a person’s case, which could stop them from being able to make it in the rest of their auditing.
There is a misconception that Objectives are just a “barrier to get through so that you can get onto the real auditing”. That idea is completely false. And by quickying or not doing their Objectives, a person is actually cutting out his chance to get full gains from his auditing.
The purpose of Objectives is given in HCOB 12 April 1962, CCH’s Purpose:
“This is the purpose of the CCH drills – getting the pc out of the past and into present time.” LRH
LRH also says in HCOB 12 May 1980, DRUGS AND OBJECTIVE PROCESSES:
“Objective Processes do several things: they remedy havingness; they locate the person in his environment; they establish direct communication with the auditor; and last but not least, they bring a person to present time.
“’Present time’ is a very important factor in mental and spiritual sanity and ability. A human being can be stuck in literally thousands of different past moments. His behavior and attitudes are influenced by such past incidents and experiences. As a matter of fact, a person can be totally regressed and can be in an incident of the past to the entire exclusion of present time.” LRH
The end phenomena obtained from doing each of the Objective processes to their full EPs is a lot more than just “coming to PT”. You would have someone “ORIENTED IN THE PRESENT TIME OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE. WITH NEW PERCEPTION, AWARENESS AND CONTROL OF ONE’S ENVIRONMENT, BODY, MIND AND THOUGHT. INCREASED COMMUNICATION AND HAVINGNESS. IN A COMPLETELY RELAXED AND SELF-DETERMINED STATE OF MIND REGARDING ORDERS AND ABLE TO EXECUTE AUDITING COMMANDS.” – LRH
You have probably seen or experienced examples in life of people manifesting a need for Objectives – someone with low Havingness that just can’t seem to be able to have money or MEST, etc. Someone who isn’t able to have a discussion in PT with you but just operates on a circuit of repeatedly telling you “I don’t know”, etc.
To give you some more reality, one of the individual processes is called Opening Procedure of 8C. LRH considers this process one of the most important processes.
The particular thing that this process deals with is the person’s ability to be willing to take and follow orders. Anyone who has been an executive and has had trouble getting their junior to follow orders were possibly dealing with an insufficient quantity of Opening Procedure of 8C run.
LRH says about this process in PAB 47 “The first thing that Opening Procedure of 8-C does is to get the preclear used to the idea of following somebody else’s directions and leading him to discover that by following somebody else’s directions he does not collapse or become ill or die. In other words, the preclear discovers that he can follow orders without becoming entirely ruined. This is an interesting discovery, since the physical universe is continually ordering him around and if he is resisting orders he is resisting the physical universe. Resistance is the one step necessary to entrapment.”
In Creation of Human Ability, LRH says, “The trouble with most cases, and the trouble with any case which is hung up and is not progressing, is that an insufficient quantity of Opening Procedure of 8-C has been used by the auditor. This has been found to be an invariable rule.”
He goes on further to explain why this is so vital to have it done to a product before you put the pc onto subjective auditing, such as the Grades, NED or even the OT levels.
In PAB 47 he states “There is another point in the Opening Procedure of 8-C which cannot be too thoroughly stressed. Nearly every failure in the past where the preclear has been audited and audited and audited, the auditor was unaware of the fact that the preclear was not following the directions given him. A survey was taken of preclears who had a great deal of trouble in being processed in Scientology, and each one of them, either by means of a meter or by their own statement, was discovered to have uniformly avoided running any of the auditing commands given them, even though they were giving the auditor every assurance and appearance of running the auditing commands….
“There are two errors which can be made in the running of the Opening Procedure of 8-C. The first is not to know and do the process, and the second is not to run it long enough. How long is long enough? In many cases, twenty-five hours is not long enough.”
Thus, if you bring someone with Objective processes up to the point where they can confront and control the MEST of the physical universe, you will have gotten them able to confront and control the MEST that their own bank is composed of.
One of the very first steps of the NED pc program as given in HCOB 23 June 78RA PRECLEAR CHECKLIST is for the C/S to verify that the preclear’s Purification RD and Objectives have been run to their full end phenomena. Both of these actions are factually part of the full NED Drug Rundown.
In HCOB 22 June 78RA NEW ERA DIANETCIS FULL PC PROGRAM OUTLINE, LRH states that Action Five is “A battery of Objective Processes is done on this step… Many pcs will have had a full battery of Objectives earlier in their auditing, following the Purification Rundown… The C/S should verify whether Objective have already been run to EP; if they have not been, they are run at this point in the NED program.” LRH
LRH stresses this point of thoroughly done drug handlings in many different references. One of these is C/S Series 73, HCOB 23 Dec 71 RB THE NON INTERFERENCE AREA CLARIFIED AND RE-ENFORCED, where LRH states “It is VERY important that a pc be fully set up with Purification Rundown, Objectives and any other needed drug handling steps, lower grades and any other needed lower Grade Chart actions, before he goes onto NED and goes Clear.” – LRH
LRH also very clearly states his viewpoint about the vital importance of Objectives in HCOB UNHANDLED DRUGS AND ETHICS. “Several recent cases have come to light where the person was permitted to go on upper grades, Expanded Dianetics, Power and even OT Levels whose drugs had not been handled.
In each case there was no or poor case gain, organizational upsets and wasted auditing.
It is fully established that a chief cause of failure in cases is unhandled or only partially handled drugs including medical drugs, treatments and alcohol.” LRH
In the TRs and Objectives course room in the Coachman, we’ve been completing people in a average of 130 hours. On a full-time rigorous Flag schedule (at least 8 hours of auditing per day), a person can complete within 4 weeks. And for those who have a light drug history or who have already had some auditing on Objectives previously, the person could get done in as little as 3 weeks.
In this way, someone coming to get through their lower Bridge can complete the Objectives, Grades and NED in a matter of weeks.
D/Snr C/S Flag Service Org
I want to help you get there. Call me or write anytime for anything.
Flag Service Consultant
323 872 3585
My feeling is that bering overrun on these processes for over a hundred hours could drive one down tone to the point of a mental snap. I cannot even imagine being willing to allow myself to stay with the process any where near that long. I recall once when I went past the EP on an objective process and it was BI’s pretty quickly. It must suck and i dont know if just that being indicated would be enough to repair the damage. Tragic.
It seems to me that Mr. Moth-cavige has simplified it all to
“Keeping Scientology Working” and “Objectives”.
About all he needs for mind control.
I see where this is going or rather where it is gone. Quite apart from needing to get his Advanced Tech Value of Services Delivered statistic way up so he can claim his massive bonuses, Miscavige is also covering his tracks. Having screwed up both one-on-one AND Solo auditing by the introduction of arbitraries and blatant out tech, he has to explain why auditing no longer works in Radical Scientology. He does so by telling one and all that they really needed hundreds of hours of further objectives. He kills two birds with one stone. He makes money (personally) hand over fist from all those Class XIIs delivering endless objectives to Clears and OTs AND explains away why tech has gone to hell in a hand basket in Radical Corporate Scientology.
Oh and I forgot, its also a nice bonus for Miscavige to be able label anyone who won’t follow his orders as being incapable of doing so due to … you said it, unflat objectives.
This man cares not one bit for others.
Well, what do you expect? GAT is a bust, auditors can’t audit, all the experienced and successful auditors and C\S’es have been driven out, and Davey just can’t deliver the goods. *Bright Idea* – blame the PC’s.
Further, lets NOT apply confessional tech standardly, so when these people introvert and blame themselves (as the majority of social people do) there is no relief in sight. And then lets make it an overt to spot the correct source and talk about it.
Classic Medieval Tech.
On the day Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) died, it was reported that his apparition appeared to a local Saint, appearing as engulfed in flames, saying that he was in Purgatory (defined as various conceptions of postmortem suffering short of everlasting damnation), and asking for help: “Alas! It is terrible; and will last for centuries if you do not come to my assistance. In the name of Mary, who has obtained for me the favor of appealing to you, help me!” At that point his apparition vanished.
I shudder to think about what is going to happen to this self-styled “Pope”.
Just a couple of notes on this email on top of your insights:
1. A new skill being taught in the RCS appears to be seriatum out of context quotes that are twisted to reach a conclusion (here: absolutelt EVERYONE needs 130 hours of objectives now). POB does it with the Ideal Orgs. IAS does it to try and convince everyone they are the enbodiment of LRH intention.
2. This email is proof there is no flow up the Bridge. Objectives are at the bottom of the Bridge — right after Purif. The FSO is again stealing mission and class V public BECAUSE there are no grades comps and Clears being made and no OT V Comps.
In the RCS, everything is turned upside down. Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland are a perfect symbol for this nutty implant factory that has been built in the image of the Maddest Hatter himself.
Anyone who has been an executive and has had trouble getting their junior to follow orders were possibly dealing with an insufficient quantity of Opening Procedure of 8C run.
THAT right there is outright bullshit and no doubt the bottom line grilled and drilled into their minds as the Why – Why you can’t make your juniors do what you want them to – Why you don’t understand DM’s orders – Why your employees don’t understand your orders – Why you’re sick. Why you’re failing at your job – Why your home life is in chaos – Why you’re not making the money you used to. Why this – Why that.
The bottom line, as you pointed out – CONTROL their minds and wallets.
Keep them in CONFUSION.
Oh hammer, meet nail head….
And for those who completed a thorough Objectives, Scn. Drug Rundown and even NED DRD – DO IT AGAIN ANYWAY YOU IGNORANT PHUCKS!
I heard about it and I know of some PC’s / PreOT’s who must redo their Objectives.
I heard, that “it was found that LRH has given an amount of hours for the processes to be run even if the EP is achieved.
Did they rewrite the Bulletins?
In the new “HQS” Pack there is nothing much about EPs at all.
(And the TR’s are really f*cked up in the HQS — I don’t even know how someone can run Objectives without having done TR’s the hard way.)
Please can anyone give more data about this?
What a WRONG indication!
Actually, even Objectives after Purif has abritrarily become the new RIDGE ON THE BRIDGE. It is an arbitrary. Most folks CAN and SHOULD get on the damn bridge and do objectives where they fall on the L Ron Hubbard Grade Chart – Grade I.
Soon, everybody will have to go back to “intro services” because they did not understand fully why they wanted services. A New Beginning for all Youppi!! Thank you so much ShitOB!!!
Four birds, #3 he continues to KILL orgs by ripping their public to flag to deliver lower level stuff, and #4 he puts bodies in the Flag shop to give the apparrency that the MECCA is still in business.
(This isn’t exactly ON the subject of objectives but rather a rant based on comments from other blogs and from a few emails I’ve received lately)
I’ve been watching as more defriending occurs. What saddens me is the hypnotism that is obvious. And how it appears, eventually most active scientologists will defriend Debbie)
But, reading comments on other blogs that are absolutely vituperative regarding the tech and how scientologists and SO members have wasted their lives BY former scientologists and SO members, I wonder if those people truly realize how they have themselves taken a section of THEIR life and thrown it away.
When we leave the corporate church — no matter the reason — it takes a great deal of work to begin to put our mind back together. Even without a MAJOR depression or break down.
HOW to reconcile THAT with THIS? HOW to find some ground beneath our feet now that we’ve LEFT the VERY group/philosophy that drove our lives. How to reconcile the fundamentalism I preached to my own family, who somehow just smiled kindly and let me rant on? The list is almost endless.
Each person does it on his own steam and finds his own way. Some apparently find the best way is to deem THEIR OWN past as a ridiculous sham wherein they were the fool.
Sad — much better, I think to embrace every single part of ones life, the good, the bad and the neutral and to say:
“Never regret yesterday, life is in you today and you make your tomorrow.”
This ought to have all those sheeple in the aisles ROTFLTAO.
I can just imagine the conversations going on around the kitchen table with all them.
“Oh, goodie, honey, if we go to Flag now we can get our objectives done and together it will only cost…let’s see… $60K each + accomos, + donos for IAS, +CCHR, +Super Power, +Library Campaign, + ASI, + Applied Scholastics, +Way To Happiness, +Handling the situations with media and all those SPs, +Narconon, +Planetary Dissemination, +the troubles in Germany, France, Australia, Russia…….etc. And we can get it done in only18 – 36 months if we really go for it so we will only lose our business that we have been slaving over 90 hours per week each to pay for all the debt that we have accumulated over the last 25 years $1.5 million, doing our bridge under DM twice, oh no…three times. But we have to hurry and get this done before 2PM Thursday if we want to take advantage of the sale and get to the front of the line because this is hot, hot, hot. I can’t wait. This is going to be fun. Yipppeeeeee!!!! Come on, sweetie, the kids will be fine with grandma and besides, this is ‘Command Intention.’ Oh, honey, can we have the Orange Kool-Aide today for a change. Oh boy, we only have to come up with $385,000. Barbara Dews says that we’ll be setting a good example if we can do it today and she will make sure we get a commendation too.”
Spot on Mike.
Hey, I wanted to relay something to you and Marty and there is every reason to do so publicly. Last night I enjoyed a very pleasant dinner with my pc and a couple of twenty something guests. We had a great time talking about all kinds of things. Towards the end of the dinner my pc inadvertently brought up the subject of Scientology. Both guests seemed concerned. It unfolded that one had had no experience with orgs but the other was blown off the lines some years ago after a basic course and purif.
They both seemed visibly relieved after I said was not a member of the Church of Scientology but was an Indie. The one who had no contact with the subject proved to be incredibly well informed about what was going on inside RCS and mentioned Miscavige by name as the cause of the situation (I did not bring up or mention the name, he did). I asked how he had become so well informed and he said media, including but not limited to coast to coast radio shows.
As the dinner concluded and without prompting, both guests separately and earnestly requested help using LRH tech..
1. People are not willing go to the Church of Scientology, its all over, Miscavige has killed it.
2. .Going to the media and all the hard work you guys and others have put in to get the truth out has paid off and is paying off, big time. The general public are not stupid — they get it — AND they can differentiate between real Scientology and Miscavology.
3. The need and demand for the tech is stronger than ever as long as you are not from Radical Corporate Scientology..
Sorry, this is in the wrong place , meant to put it below under Mike’s statement.
Thanks for sharing that Haydn.
Except that he is not keeping Scn working, and he is squirrelling the objectives.
So is being in the Hole, doing repetitive MEST work a new form of objective processing? I would say that Davey is geting his ideas about what constitutes objectives from the chain gangs or maybe from the viet Cong.
I think we’ve found the area of DMs misunderstoods. Only problem now is, it is compounded by time, false data, overts, missed withholds, restimmed evil purposes, 3rd party by lawyers, verbal data, and more. Short of eviction of the man, and deprogramming of current churches, things ain’t gonna change.
Get ready to deliver… Indeed.
Agreed, but I coaudited the CCHs on the HQS course, and was cussing blown AWAY by Op Pro by Dup on my Life Repair. But I did complete my objectives on Grade I – to full and glorious EP. Op Pro by 8c is awesome.
Note, this was after the DRDs and Dianetics Case Completion.
Total hours was probably two intensives (25 hours). Maybe a little more.
Very well said. Every experience makes me wiser. Every Danger recognized gives me an opportunity to up my personal ethics, reorganize my life and set policies for myself that will prevent future dangers. I used my experience with DM’s version of the church to do just that. I have no regrets. I am wiser and will take that new wisdom into my future beyond this lifetime.
This post, in particular, not only confirms a lot of my own observations, but it gives the *why*. Thanks, Marty!
Ever notice the “glassy-eyed stare” among the Kool-Aid drinkers? I always found it both odd and disturbing. Turns out there’s a reason for it, and you nailed it on the head: hypnosis.
A complete perversion of the purpose of Objectives. Yes, people should be perfectly able to receive, duplicate, and execute orders from another on a self determined manner, but this is part – only part – of playing a game. Think of a great sports team. The players and the coach bandy “commands” back and forth all the time.
OK my patience is wearing thin here.
I’m going to have a vent if I may…
Debbie if you are reading this I personally take offense at your second email:
There are hard-working, dedicated people still within the church. But one by one they are throwing you over to follow the king of squirrels and they SHOULD know better. Let’s stop making excuses for them by lauding their ‘dedication’ and ‘hard work’ They are flowing power to an SP who is destroying Scientology and they are forwarding and promoting squirrel tech and helping to destroy lives in doing so. Your email reads like the typical party lines put out by Miscavige to cover his crimes. There are hard-working dedicated people outside of the church who FAR more deserving of your back-up and support.
I’m happy, really happy that you have taken the first steps to do something about it but, to be honest, I’m royally fucked off that you have chosen to do it in a way that deliberately casts those who came before you (and made the decision not to be in ‘good standing’ with a suppressive group) in a bad light.
It’s all good and well to position yourself as a ‘Scientologist in good standing’ but all that really means is that you are attempting to curry favor with those who continue to support Miscavige’s brand of Scientology instead of LRH’s.
I’m sorry, but I’m not fully on-board with the direction you are headed with alienating Independent Scientologists and the media who have done more to expose the crimes of Miscavige and the corruption of our religion than any Scientologist ‘in good standing’.
I’ve been thinking it for a few days and as a fellow Scientologist NOT in good standing with those who are DESTROYING our religion with their suppressive reasonableness it needs to be said.
I consider that you are a friend of ours but I honestly think that YOU need to find out who yours are.
I had some trouble with Objectives. In case the Objectives are ordered at the correct point on the bridge then there is no evaluation or invalidation connected with that. But if you would order someone to that action cause he is seen as „nattery“ or not following orders or not able or willing to give all his money then this is an evaluation and invalidation or at least can act that way. Basically then you tell the person that he is not in present time, thus to some degree „psychotic“ and if that person agrees to that invalidation he might find reason why this is the case with him. The danger is not that he has to spend much money for that action or that he runs a process he is not in need for but the danger is, that he might consinder himself as „crazy“ (not seeing reality) and then he dives into his case to prove that.
I had quite some trouble with that. Not with running the process but with the invalidation.
This really pisses me off and is actually one of the main reasons I decided I would not ever again step foot in a ‘Church of Scientology’ ever again.
After two years of squirrel auditing, C/Sing and ethics cycles at Birmingham Org that were ridiculously insane – even to the point of ‘oh you think you’re Clear? You’re not, oh it doesn’t indicate and you’re upset about this well then you can’t have another session until you’ve done some basics and read Dianetics and SOS.’
After managing to spend about 20,000 GBP on:
2) A few intensives of The Happiness RDN,
3) A couple of ‘special C/S written’ (read squirrel) auditing actions.
4) Another Int RDN
I lost two years of my life going ‘full time up the bridge’.
I lost two years of income going ‘full time up the bridge’.
I kept being pulled off of my auditing to do ethics cycles. I’ve never been so clean and without overts/witholds and at the same time been in so much ethics trouble.
1) An interog (for telling the Qual Sec in an interview that a SO member yelled at me for not donating more money)
2) A court of eithics (for not answering the door to regs)
3) Two non enturb orders in two years for nebulous reasons that I could never really get clarified.
I would question why I was in ethics which the eithics officers would not like. At one point I was told I was not aloud to question the ethics officers anymore. I was just to do what they said and if I questioned anything I would be ignored. I was put on a sec check and my auditor kept changing the dates and times on me but HCO kept blaming me for not getting in session. I was about to be declared for not getting through my sec check.
I left Birmingham Org for St. Hill. I did my sec check there. My handlings were miniscule. The terminals in Birmingham were ordered to qual for handling me so badly. All the weird attacks on me stopped. I was living in a lovely cottage 5 mins away from St. Hill. I had a great morning job and I spent the rest of my time (40 hrs plus a week) as a student at St. Hill but I still wanted to handle my case. I had an opportunity to go to Flag. I immediately took it. I arrived at Flag.
I was so starry-eyed. I kept singing ‘Flag is here, miracles and dreams come true.’ I’d heard of all the wonderful things that Flag was capable of. I sincerely thought that my case would be cracked and handled and I’d be rocketing up the bridge. I couldn’t wait….well six weeks later after a grueling six hour session where I was held physically against my will by my auditor, forced to confess things that were not true, introverted to the point of feeling like dying, I was now being kicked out of Flag for being a ‘security risk’. A risk I would like to point out that they themselves created. My auditor told me I would receive a ‘special program’ to handle me but of course not done at Flag. They would send it to another Org. My whole world was shattered. Everything I had ever gotten out of auditing and Scientology was suddenly gone. Any wins that I ever had – gone. Things I had handled – gone. In their place a big, fat, charged-up bank. How could Flag have got it so wrong. I flew to Texas to be with my family. They were flying under the radar but I had no idea. After three weeks I still hadn’t de-stimulated I kept telling my parents that I was still upset, that one shouldn’t pay thousands of dollars an intensive for auditing and come out far, far worse than they ever went it. My parents were very understanding, my dad even mentioned that I had received out-tech. But I was conditioned to believe it was something I had done wrong.
Flag sent my folder to Tampa. A Tampa Reg called me and said all I need do is pay twenty intensives and they would handle me. In fact they would handle me so good that after twenty intensives I would be at the point on the bridge that I thought I was now…..wait….wtf??? They were telling me that after twenty intensives I could be mid the Happiness RDN. Are you fkn joking me?? I told the reg that I wasn’t going to pay 20 intensives for Flag’s Special Suicide RDN. I wasn’t fkn suicidal and Flag could go fk themselves. I was told that there was no special RDN but Flag had programmed my folder. I inquired as to what sort of things I would need to do to get all the way back up the bridge to mid happiness RDN. Objectives…..fucking objectives….that I’ve done twice already. Oh and a new Drug RDN. Are you kidding me? Why not throw in a fourth Purif for good measure cuz I’ve only done three of those!!!
I was pissed. I asked my dad – a trained C/S to speak to the C/S at Tampa and see if twenty intensives was legitimate and to find out when my ‘special Flag program had been written. Dad spoke to the C/S. It turns out that my super special Flag program had been written a couple of days before my 6 hour session. So…what does that mean? That the FESing that Flag is so well known for and that I had been expecting had not been done prior to my first Flag session. That’s when the last illusion I had been holding up had shattered. I made an interesting note that the closer one got to ‘Source’ (which is in fact not Source but POB) the more out-tech the C of S was. I made the decision then and there to never, ever, ever step foot inside a Church of Scientology ever again. I knew I was giving up my ‘eternity’ my hopes of a better me, a better life but the pain of getting consistently fked up was too great. A few days later my dad sat me down and explained why the out-tech at Flag was happening and that Scientology was not lost, that my bridge was not lost but Corporate Scientology under David Miscavige was. Everything clicked into place. I could have all the good of Scientology without all the crap. Thank you.
I went to see Marty and a few short sessions later we completed my Happiness RDN. In the RCS I had been mid it for three years.
Last Year I went to see auditor Mary Freeman and C/S Franklin Freeman. In one session Mary handled all of my immediate charge. In the next session we did a DCSI. After that session I sat in their kitchen beside my mum, we were talking with Les Warren and Anita was nearby. Frankie and Mary walked in and Frankie said ‘you’re Clear’. It was the best feeling of my life. Done in the best way possible – succinctly and without great aplomb. I wasn’t pushed out of an examiners room to a hoard of clapping kool-aid drinkers. I was sitting quietly next to my mother. Tears streamed down my face. I looked at my mother – tears streamed down hers. This is what I had been searching for and trying to achieve all of my life. And it didn’t cost thousands of dollars. It was a couple of hundred if that. And Frankie and Mary took mum and I out to a lovely dinner to celebrate.
I would like to add that the best sessions of my life have occurred outside the three-swing’-F/N church.
Oh and one more thing – Fuck you, Flag, you couldn’t Clear a desk!
And of course – Viva La Independents! Viva Standard Tech! Viva Liberty!
+1 – well said girl friend.
Yet one more way RCS can invalidate any gains made by any PC. First there was OT VII and the OT VIII, then Clears and now it can apply to anyone. If you had any auditing on the bridge and you aren’t currently in lock step, then you didn’t get the EP.
I wonder if anyone who is complying with DM’s latest executive C/Sing of cases is aware of the fact that nearly every HCOB on the subject of objectives was written before the Lower Grades were developed, before the OT levels were developed, before NOTs was developed and before FPRD was developed.
In the Bulletin of 19 March 1978, QUICKIE OBJECTIVES there are a couple of relevant quotes to the situation:
“Failure to run Objectives fully and completely, especially on a case with an extensive drug history, can set up the pc for less than optimum gain on Dianetics.”
“If the EP of an Objective was questionable, you can ask the pc what happened and if he F/Ns on a real Objective EP, fine, otherwise flatten the process.”
Anyone who allows themself to be put onto objectives again, without the auditor checking to see if a valid EP had already been reached first, is allowing his auditor and C/S to squirrel LRH tech.
But I guess, in light of the responses to Debbie Cook’s recent email, most of the parishioners in dave’s cult don’t give a flying crap about squirreling LRH tech as long as they have a fancy building to do their squirreling in.
For those who are concerned that thier recent “loss of wins and gains” might be because they haven’t got flat objectives, please note what LRH says about roller-coaster stemming from PTS, not priorly unflat objectives.
Well Haydn, you made my day.
Cooldud – they do! First the Basics, and now all the OT Asses are doing all the intro courses! Also a way of inflating stats by making it look like there are actual public in the orgs.
Oh Lord please give me the grace to keep my temper under check… and maybe a bit of patience if you have some to spare – I’m just calling it how I see it 😦
Thanks for straightening me out on that Marty. It’s why you’re my C/S!!!
Excellent vent, Sam.
I too was really disappointed by Debbie’s rebuttal or mea culpa email to the Saint Pete Times or whatever it’s called now.
She need only see the number of people who have defriended her to see that she’s not going to gain THOSE friends back. Friends? Please.
I have no idea IF she has a plan. I certainly hope so. I certainly think so and I don’t think it involves coming to an Indie party any time soon.
Bridging the divide between Indie and “in good standing” scientologist is going to be a long time coming I think.
People are still wanting to be on the “winning side” — the side of the majority and they THINK that side is “in good standing”.
People are not brave. LRH has said — thetans are timid, somewhere.
I’ve thought about it alot too Sam. How WOULD this “new” improved, back to source structured Scientology look?
It’s almost impossible to figure it out — IMHO — WHO would put back the intended structure of LRH? WHO would piece back the tech? WHO would take over the finances?
Is there ANYONE IN the church at this moment in time who is not either completely done in by The Hole (think Mithoff, Heber, ED Int etc), or a complete dm sycophant unable to ever reconstruct the church.
Perhaps Debbie’s plan is to herself take over the entirety of the Church.
Her rise to the top was meteoric and not without a few stepped over and squashed people to get there. She’s got the guts to do it. And apparently the desire to have it remain …
“The general public are not stupid — they get it — AND they can differentiate between real Scientology and Miscavology.”
It is good news to hear that one of the early goals of the Independents has been realized. I think the interviews with the media have been key in communicating these differences to the broad public and it is becoming more and more clear that it is not the philosophy which has been attacked but the corrupt practices and inhumane treatment of people connected directly or indirectly to the church.
Completely opening the door to executive C/Sing…and failed cases.
Absolutely perfect!! “You couldn’t clear a desk”
Had me laughing out loud!!
As with many things in the current tech scene, there are alterations of data and sequence galore. There are many ref’s re # of hours to be delivered on certain Objectives, all prior to the data re what constitutes the end phenomena to any Scn process and the liabilities of overrun. The ref cited above re overrun and hypnotism would indicate the goal that is being sought by dm via overrunning the objective processes and it ain’t pretty. It’s all too obvious what is being done, which led a friend ( a major current OL in the field) and I to coin a new term: Robotic Duplication. And Marty’s remark of an auditor vs a mind control specialist is most appropriate. The reaction within the church re Debbie Cook’s letters would indicate that dm could be gone tomorrow with full disclosure and there would still be a major situation inside the walls. The bots have taken over.
From HCOB HCO BULLETIN OF 23 MAY 1971 R Issue VIII
REVISED 4 DECEMBER 1974, Basic Auditing Series 10R
RECOGNITION OF RIGHTNESS OF THE BEING:
“In the state of a Free Thetan or Native State he is a far more powerful individual than when he’s been complicated up.
It’s the idea of the additive data to the Thetan. Try to give somebody something he doesn’t want and you are going to overthrow his power of choice. His power of choice is the only thing that he had to begin with, which gave him power, capability and anything else and that power of choice has been consistently and continuously overthrown by giving him things he didn’t want and taking away from him things he didn’t want to get rid of back and forth. You get the individual pretty overwhelmed and he goes down in power.”
“Man is an added-to being and everything that has been added to him has
decreased his ability to cope. When you add something to the Being he gets worse.” L Ron Hubbard
As far as the “internal” handling of the church goes….not going to EVER happen… been there done that.
As for the objectives and Barbara Dues and her email, I can only say PSYCHOTIC, all done to match the POB’s tone level.
It’s funny that in that email from the C/S where LRH quotes are used, it is clearly stated by LRH that Objectives are for “PRECLEARS”. I don’t seen any mention of Clears and OTs.
They even mention your point Marty – the purpose of Objectives is to be a compliant junior who follows orders. In other words a Robot.
I know the term brainwashing is not liked – but what else to you call it when someone deliberately overruns Objective processes for hours and hours. As LRH mentioned in your reference Marty – it acts as Hypnosis again creating controlable Robots.
It is no wonder it takes some time after leaving the RCS before people start thinking clearly. A few years. Look at Debbie Cook. She left 3 years ago and now she sees what is really going on when it was always right there in front of her.
I don’t know why anyone would ever go into a current Scientology church and pick up the cans.
I really do know what you have been through. My own story would sound similar. And also the experiences of a few people that I know.
The propaganda of Flag (“the safest place in the world”, “your auditor is waiting for you” etc.) may (or may not) have come true for some, but definetely not for every visitor.
Yes, there is lots of “suppressive reasonableness” but still the most Scientologists (on-lines) I know, are fully dedicated to LRH — yes, they’re mislead by Miscavige and many of them does not know better.
The Propaganda Events are there for the solely reason to make DM look good and big and they do the mass hypnosis trick very well. They cut off LRH from Corporate Scientology more and more — but, do not think for any second that any Scientologist preferes DM before LRH.
Scientology will be there no matter what happens. There will be always a dedicated field (freezone, independents and others) but with POB gone and with some slight “return to the real thing” the Church of Scientology has very good chances to restore itself.
Thats why I love Debbies second Letter.
She gives acknowledgement for the very dedicated staff and public.
And in the first letter she points to the misaplications caused by DM.
Do the math.
This isn’t meant to offend you personally.
I do not know you. You do not know me.
Our mutual stable datum is LRH, and so is Debbies.
Truth will stand the test of time.
In any processing (also Group Dianetics) you use ARC and acknowledgements.
Straight and factual, Sam !
It seems I’ve always enjoyed MEST work, especially since the Life Repair and Objectives (partial, later completed) of 1974 or so. In fact I recall seeing the world around me — and the people in it — clearly, for the first time.
During Dr Denk’s illness when I was on home care, I did lots of cleaning, etc. After he passed and I had lost not only a husband, but a post/org and friends, I jammed back onto MEST work. After all, I had to clean out the office files where I had worked and had to prepare our house for sale. There were so many bouquet remembrances after the memorial service, I had lots to keep me busy over that next year at home.
I love the Objectives and feel my going on MEST work has served to keep a fairly even balance of mass and significance as well as extroversion. Rest assured, I’ve had to deal with a high amount of significance after Dr Denk’s departure! Not only my own but that of others!!
I will openly admit that a high volume of MEST work at my not-so-tender-age of 64 does become difficult, but as I’ve gotten on in years I usually have a helper around for the bigger stuff. The MEST work is extremely therapeutic and helps me sort things out. Rachel
My Dearest Mareka,
I saw you after this matter was handled when you told me you are Clear. I had no idea what had come before but now I do. I cherish that we met at that time and with such good news! Yes, we definitely need a ‘like’ button because I would give you a zillion. For now, we have shared a moment. All my love, Rachel
Is it a coincidence that the objectives are done without an e-meter, now that all auditors are scared shitless of not abiding by the 3 swing rule.
This is truly sad. What a colossal waste of time,money and energy. From now on I’ll enjoy my wasting time some times doing Sudokus and think how bad it could have been had I stayed in the trap that is RCS.
Rachel, Couldnt agree with you more! MEST work is wonderful. Used to drive POB crazy when he would assign me, Guillaume, Yager, Mithoff to MEST work, the dirtiest, crappiest stuff he could think of, and we would be happy as clams. I NEVER had a problem with doing MEST work, in fact, I enjoyed it. And I have done plenty in my time. It’s funny to me now to look back on those times — he seemed to think this was punishment, but in fact it was a relief from having to sit in meetings with him for hours on end or try to figure out what you were supposed to do with his contrary orders or write endless CSWs that never got approved to be able to do anything (nobody could act on anything without “COB OK”). I know I used to drive POB absolutely crazy because often my reactions to things didnt match what he expected.
Anyway, I am with you. I am a big fan of MEST work, it definitely helps your sanity especially when you are in a confused or unstable environment.
It’s very easy to quote one text and omit another.
In the late 1950s there were various EPs for objectives.
In the mid 1960s Ron discovered the importance of the F/N and a mental / spiritual condition called “release” (this became a very important element of his Standard Tech). And if you continue after a release then you will just overrun. Ron even stated somewhere that earlier auditing actions in the 1950s were often heavily overrun.
If one studies the Briefing Course – or even reads the red volumes – the simplicity of it becomes very obvious.
But if one doesn’t care about the Briefing Course – hey, is that you, Davey ? – or if one feels the craving need to rake in billions – then you just take the 1950s quote and you are all set.
Providing your serfs don’t question you.
I’ve considered the possibility that Debbie has a plan but at this point no-one is really in a position to second guess (including myself) – that’s why I’m taking what I see right now and going with that. I hope you are right but I see no evidence of it at this point in time.
I know she has had her own personal issues to deal with before being in a position to do anything but like the rest of us, she has been a party to the suppressive reasonableness which got us into this mess in the first place and she has stayed silent about what she knows while the situation has continued to spiral out of control and so, like the rest of us there is a condition inherent in that involvement that needs to be addressed.
Taking leadership of this group (which includes Scientologists both inside and outside of the ‘approved’ ‘church’) will involve making up the damage done and regaining trust. I see people in the Independent field who have done FAR more to earn that trust than Debbie has so far.
In any case, if her plan is to taker over the church, I for one am not prepared to play a new game of follow the leader. That only perpetuates an already unworkable system. Any reform needs to be in terms of communicating with ALL Scientologists and coming up with a sensible plan involving all other players. Otherwise the Corporate church can go to hell and real, honest Scientology will be left in the hands of Independent Scientologists with or without Debbie’s help and with or without reform from the inside.
That being said I am truly grateful for all she has done so far and will fully back her once I see that she can be completely trusted.
I’m not going against Debbie here in any way shape or form. She’s entitled to do whatever she feels is right. These are just my personal feelings as a fellow Scientologist.
“There are many ref’s re # of hours to be delivered on certain Objectives, all prior to the data re what constitutes the end phenomena to any Scn process and the liabilities of overrun.”
I understand and I know that.
But how do they justify “you need to do [number] hours on this (any given) process, even if you got your EP sooner”.
Where this 130 hours come from?
You may be right.
As I’ve said before I hope Debbie has a plan and knows what she is doing. But if that’s not the case then I do take offense regardless of the intention.
Ahhh yes. Perfect indication in your quote – “please note what LRH says about roller-coaster stemming from PTS, not priorly unflat objectives.”
SKM: I respectfully disagree.
I think the majority of those still involved IN the church DO prefer DM to LRH. Just like MOST fundamental Christian prefer their evangelical pastor to Jesus ALTHOUGH they always PRAISE JESUS.
Most still in PRAISE and (mis)quote LRH BUT the person who instills fear in their hearts, who makes them feel PROUD for ALL they are doing for mankind … is DM.
Many — sadly — never knew a time when DM was da big boss so they don’t know anything else.
How many at CCLA even know that Yvonne Gillham Jentzch existed and started the CC network. AND even fewer know that LRH said that CC was to be a SHRINE for Yvonne. Not a ROOM (which was promptly dismantled) but the entire concept and feeling of CCs as a shrine for Yvonne.
She embodied kindness and care.
Anyway — before I get too far off topic —
Those who are IN — at this point — prefer dm to LRH. Why? They don’t know LRH. How could they — he disappeared from RCS years ago.
They stick around out of fear, threat of losing their connections, which includes children, businesses and their very existence – which is wrapped up with scientology connections.
AND because they are constantly beating up side the head — they never have time or space to destimulate and start to THINK for themselves.
Wow. The ability to follow orders . . .
Typo — most do not know a time was DM wasn’t the da boss
Thank you for writing this. As i read this~ I had my first moment of wanting to go back into session after more than ten years. My last auditing at rcs was ccrd, actually about five of them. I figured that I was never going to be allowed to attest, so I moved on with other things. You really do inspire! (clear a desk it right!!!)
The Great Middle Path Sam.
I agree Mike as well. The other thing I enjoyed about being assigned MEST work by DM was that I ended up working with and meeting other Scientology Executives that I normally wouldn’t see. People like Ron Norton, Milt Wolfe, Heber, Bill Dendiu to name a few. We ended up having lots of laughs together while we were out there sweating in the heat. Not to mention the great tans! 🙂
Wow….that’s quite an adventure you went through .OMG. Congradulations on finally completing you HRD and awesome on your Clear status.
Well isn’t that the perfect handling to suppression, the pc’s/ot’s keeping r/c’ing, instead of handling the source of suppression (DM), the tech gets altered, amazing……..what next????? Maybe he’ll introduce the copper iron rod and sell that for $20,000 – $40,000!
Marty (and Mike), a question on the subject of putting bodies in the Flag shop to give the apparency that the Mecca is still in business.
In 2001, there was a program to send 3 staff from each org to Flag on what was called the “PTS / SP Evolution”, where each of them did Student Hat, Pro TRs, Metering and the PTS / SP Delivery Specialist Course. The posts that were to be filled by these 3 staff who were to have become experts at handling PTSness in staff and public were: EO, Chaplain and SSO.
When this was completed there was, in my observation, very little attention put on how these graduates of this program were doing in their orgs in terms of handling PTSes, after they finished this training and went back to their orgs. Some of them were put on higher posts and had very little time to actually handle public one-on-one.
In 2004, I was part of a Flag-trained Sup evolution. We trained very intensively to learn the skill of making auditors, by Suping in the internship, by being required to learn everything necessary to get interns completed on their internships.
But in the 4+ years after I completed this program and went back to my org, there was virtually zero attention put on using the skills I learned to make auditors, by the management of both my org and Int Management. In fact, midway through that time is when auditor training was virtually replaced by the pure-theory courses of the Basics and then the ACCs. We only made one Class IV auditor and a few Solo auditors in all that time and there was very little attention put on this outpoint. Why did we go through all that training if there was going to be so little intention to make auditors in the church?
So my question is, and this is something I’ve suspected for a while, do you think that the actual purpose of these training programs is to put bodies in the Flag shop to make it look busy and filled with people? I also observed that if you removed all Outer Org Trainees from Flag, you would have hardly anyone in the training building at all because there were relatively very few public on training.
Sam, I could not have said it better myself! +100000000000000
Debbie is doing exactly what Marty wanted: not being in comm (with him or us). She is handling a different public.
HAPPY END !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Fuck you, Flag, you couldn’t Clear a desk!”
Spoken like a true survivor.
Sorry you had to experience that Mareka.
Of all the squirrel tech my family had to experience the betrayal and absolute head-fuck we went through at Flag was by far the worst.
So happy you came through it in one piece and winning again.
As you said Marty “The Church of Scientology is dead” and Debbie didn’t confront it yet, but is moving up a liitle higher.
More losses they have more Wins and Expansion they’ll dream up until it implodes totally as the communistic regimes did. Suddenly, when nobody expects it, it will fall apart !
I just don’t see it that way Tom. Not yet.
I know it may sound odd but I was never more keyed out in the Sea Org than when I was building something or knocking something down on the RPF! Nothing like a good dose of hard MEST work to see immediate results and get everything into perspective.
‘Like’ this comment! MEST work is a great handling and is wonderful. It’s definitely not a punishment although I now see how it has been used as punishment. It makes us “happy as clams.”
Love it! Turning MEST work into a meeting where you can end up having laughs. Nice product!
I don’t think Debbie’s actions have anything to do with what Marty wants – I think Marty’s comment regarding the situation was more to do with an observation that strategically it works regardless of her own personal reasons for doing it.
I can’t (and wouldn’t) speak for Marty but that was my understanding of it.
I just bet “dear leader” has had Ray run another 130 hours of objectives on him, not.
Sam-My sentiments exactly
Well , my first response to reading this post was that it seems to me that perhaps David Miscavige could use some Objectives. Has he availed himself of these powerful processes? Has he done his 130 to 250 hours? Of course not.
…”Objective Processes do several things: they remedy havingness; they locate the person in his environment; they establish direct communication with the auditor; and last but not least, they bring a person to present time.”…
…“’Present time’ is a very important factor in mental and spiritual sanity and ability. A human being can be stuck in literally thousands of different past moments. His behavior and attitudes are influenced by such past incidents and experiences. As a matter of fact, a person can be totally regressed and can be in an incident of the past to the entire exclusion of present time.” LRH
Sounds like that might be a valuable process on someone like DM who is completely out of valence and thoroughly stuck in some past incident.
But to do it on OT VIIIs? By running these processes on them he is as good as telling them they are stuck in the past. My understanding ids that they were supposed to be free of the past and its influences over them, and able to operate in present time. From my knowledge of auditing technology, running or overrunnung a PC on a process that the PC does not need, is pretty much guaranteed to drive him INTO his case, and have him become effect of the very thing that it was designed to handle. It is BLACK DIANETICS to the core.
On the 1970 Grade chart it says this:
Ability to be at cause knowingly and at will over thought, life,form, matter, energy, space, and time, subjective and objective.
Freedom from inability to be totally free and at total cause as a being…..
Now I am no DM, but it really doesn’t sound like Objectives would be the next correct C/S for OT VIIIs..
And that is only one of several glaring outpoints in this misuse of Objectives.
I’ll resist the urge to go on, at this point. but damn!… where I spit, grass won’t grow!
mareka-Thank you for sharing your heart wrenching story with the wonderful ending!!!
The Ability Gained and Inability Lost are from the description of OT VIII.
Geezes H …, you’ve got to be kidding. Is that email for real?
That is the most disgusting piece of black propaganda with deadly intent I think I’ve ever read. The misinterpreted LRH and heavy duty evaluation in that communication is a one way ticket to an area of overrun and robotism from which recovery would be very, very difficult.
The only parallel out in the real world where some differentiation still exists I can think of is in the military indocrination procedures at boot camp. Namely parade ground drilling and long hours of physical duress (percission with tiredness) coupled with open humilation and peer pressure control if you scew up – remember Full Metal Jacket? Hours upon hours of allowing someone else to command your body with stiff discipline produces an end result where a soldier does what he is commanded to do even in the most life threatening circumstances without hestitation (well that’s the plan anyway). That has a use in military and dangerous environments, overall it increases your survival but even the military are smart enough to know when to stop and generally you only get a couple of weeks of this scattered amoungst other training, that is all it needs, they still want you to be able to think!!
But to give someone a longer dose of this sort of treatment in the name of Scientology auditing is about the most disgusting and damaging assult on self determinsim I could think of. Implanting is serious – and that email is a invitation of just that.
Objectives are a fun activity with great results if done per the actual Bridge line up not for use as a tool of supression. Miscavige is truly a piece of pure evil – that overrun of objectives is intentional!
It is true though they couldn’t. Before I began my auditing at Flag I had to handle my previous not-clear r-factor in Qual. I was fully indoctrinated into believing I couldn’t possibly be Clear and my Flag trained auditor of 21 years even told me how funny it was that bunches of PCs say that they’ve had auditing by LRH last lifetime and this couldn’t possibly be true he said because LRH actually didn’t even do that much auditing….oh yeah and of course they’ve already accounted for all the past life Clears….morons.
Good Points, Dave Fagen
Sorry that’s Flag trained auditor of 21 years old. He’d been auditing a couple of years….yes…I was being auditing by a child with no life experience. I actually really liked him though…well until he physically held me against my will for hours and then wrote a Knowledge Report of my session to Ethics and had me sent there.
Thank you for putting all this down, Mareka. Your story helps make sense of my own and also steels the conviction that I will NEVER step into an org again. All we need is out here in the sunshine.
I am sorry for all those that linger but honestly, for FUCKSAKE, how much prove do people need before they WTFU!
The more I keep returning to this blog, this island of sanity, the more I realise that my original impression of Scn was the right one. What I didn’t know and couldn’t know was that by the time I came into Scn (88/89) the orgs had already been all but assimilated by the Borg. The church may not be quite dead yet but it has become a festering, perverted, dogma-riddled edifice of the undead.
We do not need to re-animate this monster.
When Scientology gets real, people will reach for it, for it is nothing less than sanity.
This blog is ample proof of that.
I love this ‘place’!
I got it.
But never underestimate the human nature (and phenomena of theta).
I don’t know what the entire plan of Debbie Cook may be.
But I see the fruits of her deeds. My local Orgs BIS shrinked to nearly by 30% last week.
There is a huge vacuum now.
And all OSA will do is fill it up with even more crap.
In any case, the Indies Field wan’t be harmed by this current evets.
Do you agree?
And the seed of truth goes on the lines of corporate Scientology.
Yes, Tara, at our company when someone fails to follow orders we just put them right onto objectives! NOT! LOL
Sorry for typos.
I am still learning to express myself in english.
I looked Martys New Years Message again.
Extremism doesn’t pay off – I agree 100%
Marty while I understand what you say it the start of the blog today . I would like to post a link to a recent statement by Janet Reitman regarding the Debbie story which I thought was quite good.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/07/scientology-insider-emails-attack-on-church-finances.html
Mirari, you slay me! ROFL
Yes, the area of DMs misunderstoods would be called, roughly, “Scientology.”
By the end of Debbie’s letter it kind of sounded like OSA speaking….
Han Solo (cool name btw)
Yes, many people have had similar experiences. I don’t consider mine unique. Just relevant to this blog.
Honestly my experience at Flag shook my very soul. That was my biggest wake-up call. That a PC of theirs had experienced a red tag and they refused to handle it. Instead they just discarded me like a piece of rubbish. What did they think I was going to do slit my wrists in session? I kept telling them I wasn’t suicidal – but I had to admit it in the end or I couldn’t leave my session and then by that point I believed it. My auditor kept saying the meter was ‘reacting’ so it must have been true. Unbeknown to even myself I must be suicidal!!
That night I had to move out of the Ft. Harrison. I believe I went to the Marriott but it was so late and I was so grief stricken that it’s hard to be sure. They next day I accompanied my then 2d to the Oak Cove so that he could attest his L11 that he had just completed. I wasn’t aloud on base though. I sat on the curb and waited. While I waited I called my mum. She pointed out that isn’t it strange that a church would turn someone away for feeling apathetic. She suggested I wear a sign around my neck reading ‘I have bad thoughts’ LOL. I laughed so hard. Imagine little old me sitting on the curb outside of the Oak Cove with a sign on my neck saying ‘I have bad thoughts’. hehehe
come on sweethart show me a smile!
like this 🙂
you can do it 😉
George, good point about the invalidation. But that happens every time the DofP says, “Now we’re going to have you do…” and you know they’re saying you’re not quite up to snuff, but you know differently. From their perspective, that will all get ironed out on the rudiments when you get into session. And that works too, if you’re lucky enough to get a real auditor….
I too cherish the time when we met. You were the first person outside of my family that I told of my Clear status and furthermore I was able to share the good news of my pregnancy with you. We definitely shared a moment!
Wishing You Love and Happiness Across Your Dynamics
you seem to have answered your own questio old friend
Mareka, just reading your story drives me wild! I am so glad you found Marty and Mary and Frankie and Les and Anita! Lovely!
Good point WH – I missed that entirely.
Those still inside have no compunction in throwing aside LRH tech and policy in favor of Miscavige’s ‘new’ and ‘improved’ versions. LRH is all but a token of the past. Old and no-longer used.
Respectfully I’m not advocating extremism. I think you’re missing the point.
Hi Les, hubby brought up the fact that searching around for the EP gained on an objective done thirty years ago could easily result in the C/S saying, “See, he’s not flat, he didn’t get the EP.”
You are welcome! It took a lot of guts for me to go back in session and handle my Clear cycle. A lot of guts. In fact I remember being in my room at the Freeman/Warren house, lying on the bed physically shaking with my fist in my mouth! I wanted to scream and yell and refuse to go in session but my responsibility for my own case and for the baby in my belly was far more important than the naughties in my head.
The wonderful thing about auditing is that you can handle years of upset in minutes.
Go in session. You owe it to yourself to finally put to rest what 5 CCRDs has not. You deserve to no longer question yourself or your case and to have certainty.
I can recommend some good auditors too 🙂
Personally, I never saw the value of objectives. Sure, I had a few small wins, but I frankly loathed them. Loathed hearing them being done. One of the reasons I never became trained is not wanting to deliver them.
So I can’t imagine that anyone would be happy about 130 hours of objectives, especially not at HGC (or worse, Flag) rates.
continuation… simply because he doesn’t remember something, or because there was so much invalidation that he’s been scared out of “knowing what he knows.”
Mike, when the INT Command Team Ethics Mission of 1993 hit PAC Base, crew were always getting assigned to MEST work for punishment.
I never understood this as the anyone who properly completed the EPF should have been flat on MEST Work: Product 0 – a Sea Org Member who knows he *is* a Sea Org member and is able to confront and handle MEST.
All this told me was that ever single “officer” who thought MEST work was punishment simply failed their EPF.
Michael A. Hobson
Haydn, thanks for the info and great for disseminating Scientology to people. In regards to the media I wanted to say that Corporate Scientology people are NOT real to the world. They never were. We are now REAL. We have kept our position in space differentiating the tech of LRH to that delivered in the church and we have spoken up about who we are and what we stand for. Back in 2001 I had done 6 TV shows in various greek TV channels which were a huge success. People had been calling to shows to ask if I would be present. All I did was being real and answering questions and basically putting Scientology there. It was amazing to see people even in the street would greet me after a year or so and say that the way I spoke was.. making sense.
So all this now makes sense. When you are invisible and behind walls you just create some mystery. The Media are NOT only Merchants of Chaos. As a matter of fact it’s the way they are run that gives them that title. Who said a Scientologist couldn’t and shouldn’t put up or even take advantage of that broad line and put out some true data.
Thanks! Yes, it was an adventure. I was made into a baa baa but was still a black sheep despite the RCS brainwashing tactics. I love being Clear and highly recommend it to anyone. One of the best things is that I am able to be myself and not worry what people think.
Carol, you made me realize, the term “Command Intention,” implies hypnosis, doesn’t it! “My command will go straight through you, to you, to you, to you”…all just like an electronic circuit, with no thinkingness on the line.
“In any case, the Indies Field wan’t be harmed by this current evets.
Do you agree?”
Not entirely. But I think that what Debbie has done so far will have a devastating impact on Radical Corporate Scientology and the Independent field will grow stronger because of it.
Personally I’m not that interested in ‘sides’ though. Once again, that isn’t my point.
😀 😀 😀
Sam, you reminded me of the year I put the back roof on the house. One nail, two nails, three nails, DONE with that shingle. Felt great all the way up to the top.
Guilty here too, Bodil. I love Sudoku puzzles!
It is torture for me to see the Tech so altered and degraded and used to further implant man. Fortunately, it is being taken back by ones who are in PT and really do care about people-Marty,Les and Haydn to name a few are in PT and care. Thank god!
Thank you Han Solo.
Do you (or anyone) know on which basis they “sell” the 130 hours concept?
I mean on lines (in HGC and Acadamy / Course).
I know, the tollerance to take verbal data (or “based on the teachings of LRH”) raised, but what are the “references” they use to actually deliver this.
“One of the very first steps of the NED pc program as given in HCOB 23 June 78RA PRECLEAR CHECKLIST is for the C/S to verify that the preclear’s Purification RD and Objectives have been run to their full end phenomena. Both of these actions are factually part of the full NED Drug Rundown.”
Anyone who started in Scientology after the date of the above bulletin, who is then told they need to redo objectives because they did not achieve the full EP, should immediately jump down the reg’s throat with the statement, “You are telling me that this church SQUIRRELED the process on me and now you are asking me to let this SQUIRREL church correct this but at MY expense? How do I know this SQUIRREL church has amended its ways and made up the damages it created so that it can be accepted back into the group of churches that do not SQUIRREL the technology?”
Sam, just give it time.
“You have probably seen or experienced examples in life of people manifesting a need for Objectives – someone with low Havingness that just can’t seem to be able to have money or MEST, etc. Someone who isn’t able to have a discussion in PT with you but just operates on a circuit of repeatedly telling you “I don’t know”, etc.”
This describes staff members I’ve known at the Seattle Org over the last 38 years—can’t have money or MEST (beater cars, rathole living quarters)—and staff/public BOTs there who can’t have a discussion with me about what’s really going on, but rely on “management will handle it” and “the stats are up, I’ve been told so,” and “Who am I to judge for myself?” Witness the letter (a few articles earlier on this site) of Tim Stoner, the largest donor to the Seattle Ideal Org Building Fund, stating that he relies on management to make his decisions for him. ROFL.
This information is really sad to see. What ever happened to auditing the pc in front of you.
Back in the 1970’s whenever we encountered a pc that appeared to need many hours of objectives due to a drug history etc. instead selling them huge amounts of intensives we would get them on the HQS course where they could get has many hours as they needed and not worry about cost. Plus they got the added benefit of giving auditing to someone else.
This sure didn’t help our GI stats, but we were there to help, not make a profit.
It’s sad that the my old friends have fallen so far from being able to observe this gross auditing error. I’ve even had a friend, an old CL VI still under the radar, being told that the reason his finances are so bad is because his case was by-passed by lack of objectives and missed EP’s (no 3 swing FN’s). What surprised me about this, besides the gross evaluation, is my friend was considering this as being correct. I guess the golden era of “” had done its job and made him forget his basic training from the Briefing Course.
Great article by Reitman. Thanks RE.
Thanks Ingrid. As always it feels wonderful to be duplicated by you.
Hmmm…get beaten up spiritually by the church…leave church…get repaired in the field…former abilities fully rehabbed…and dynamics suddenly start expanding (literally)! Sounds like a winning formula to me!
“couldn’t Clear a desk!”
gave them something they need now to “clear” their name of. 😀
Oh, I forgot to mention today’s post.
I am flummoxed that the very HCOB’s you cite, as well as other well known confidential references on this, are ignored by “trained” auditors in the CoS. The references just couldn’t be a clearer. Any CL IX and CL IX C/Ses in the CoS ought to have their certs pulled if they engage in this blatant out tech. The fact that they don’t is a very bad indicator. Sigh!!
Tom, you always come up with the most fitting reference.
veteran course sup?
SKM: The Indie Field as I see it won’t be harmed by the recent events or any events of the future —
Why? Because “Indies” are not subject to flip-flopping — or being told HOW to think and WHO is the “leader”
The Indie Field will grow a bit because of Debbie Cooks letter — but the existing RCS will not collapse (yet) because of it.
It’s collapse MIGHT come when people STOP giving money and stop showing up for more brainwashing.
#5) DM can justify his release of OT IX and OT X — no one has the prerequisits to move on them; why should we release them?
My first thought was WTF and then Holy Shit and then Thank god by the end of your post. I am SO glad that you were helped and have been able to fully acknowledge your state of Clear! That’s Awesome!
Your post and some of the subsequent responses to it made me think that there are probably many people out there with suppressed FLAG horror stories who just didn’t dare say so because if was Flag. I can just imagine the self-invalidation one feels after an ordeal like that. For many years the Mecca of technical perfection has been the PR campaign of the day. I know many public who went there to get there cases debugged. Now we are finding out that it is really the Mecca of Squirrel technology. It really is more like betrayal at the Mecca. I am sure others who have had similar experiences are blowing down at your post…complete Black Dianetics.
SKM – to clarify:
It’s like saying you disagree with Hitler while proudly displaying your Nazi pin and all the while being careful not to tarnish your reputation by virtue of any association with a jew.
Also not having a game for the ‘idle’ OT VIIIs in form of OT IX and X the the objectives are a MUST (not).
Mirari, please clear this term ROTFLTAO, thanks.
Sam, just thinking aloud here, not saying anyone is wrong or anything.
I was on staff both in Detoit and then the Sea Org for close to 30 years. Not a long time, but hey, it was long enough. I was died-in-the-wool Sea Org, KSW and so forth. When I was in management in FB I was in charge of running the Sea Org orgs and FSO while Dave Henderson ran Scientology Orgs. After months of hard work and NO sleep we had the stats in affluence in all three sectors (FSO, SO and Scn), but once per month Vicky Azneran, the IG RTC, used to pull both me and Dave down to her office and call us squirrels and told us to “Get off of the fence” and so forth because our orgs did not all have fully established HCOs and Quals, never mind the affluences because those were “false stats”. We were trying our best. Then she would order us to handle all the Refund Requests RIGHT NOW and our stats would suffer as a result. I hated her because she was Dev-T. Guillume and KK (Chf Off CMOI) were equally DevT becausem of the silly shit they would have us do that didn’t have anything to do with production or expanding orgs. I literally hated the execs at Int because it was impossible to make our org boom with them on our lines dev-ting the shit out of us. Did I walk out because “They were off-source”? Did I bail because none of the orgs were maintainingSt Hill Size? Did I leave because “things were bad?” No, I just worked out how to get my orgs rocking while handling the bullshit that was dished out from above. I finally got RPFed off of my post after 3Xing the size of the delivery and GI in that sector. Did I quit? No, I said: “I will handle this some day in spite of your stupid asses.”
Dave Henderson and other key execs felt exactly like I did. We knew Int was crazy and Dev T yet we stayed in spite of it all and in order to fullfill LRH’s Intention. We knew the difference.
I would like to think that a lot of staff are doing the same right now. I don’t think these people are bad. I won’t condemn them. I finally blew in 1997 and I still can’t tell you if that was the right thing or not. This I do know is that were LRH in my shoes he would not have blown. But I don’t know how he would have handle it.
Food for thought.
Thanks, Sam. Yes, we are survivors indeed. Here’s to surviving across all of our dynamics! Despite Flag, despite squirrel tech, despite families ripped asunder et al. To infinity and beyond! 😉
You’re welcome, Ingrid. I really couldn’t tell it before because the ending wasn’t complete and I’m reticent to tell a story with a sad ending. But having had my Clear acknowledgment the story hasn’t ended it has only just begun! 🙂
OK, let’s clear it up. Marty, can you elaborate on: Good reason for Debbie and I to keep our distance from one another, eh?
My view is that those still ‘in’ are the ones responsible for thepresent condition of the cofS.
I left the CofS about 20 years ago because it was painfully obvious to me that the Bridge had been perverted and lead nowhere. If I can see it so can they. The fact they are still ‘in’ is degrading to them, and I don’t trust any of them. They are supporting an SP, and as far as I am concerned they know it.
Re: Debbie, she has basically come to her senses and publically admits what has been going on, but I believe she always knew what was going on, as do they all. Perhaps, “Hang up at Doubt” is the actual condition of the ‘inners’.
Nonetheless, she is still very new at this, and clearly thinks things can be handled internally, which to me indicates she is still somewhat PTS. DM and his minions will soon clarify the true scene for her, at which point I believe she will no longer be PTS and her reach will expand considerably.
She has my support in doing what she is doing because I am aware of her present condition, at least I flatter myself that I am aware of it, and I have 100% faith that she will do the right actions as she recognizes the true scene.
Oh my gosh, thanks! I’m so glad too. Before going to see Frankie and Mary I was so wrought with doubt and thoughts of ‘am I Clear because of this? and I can’t be Clear because of that’. Oh it was horrible. At one point I decided I was going to just make my own Clear cert and put it up on my wall and be done with all the over-thinking. I’m glad I didn’t do that and instead went to Frankie and Mary. It is truly nice to be validated. Nobody likes to be an invalid 🙂
You’re welcome. You are right in not wanting to ever cross that threshold again. What is extremely sad is the amount of horror stories out here. I’m sure yours would read similar to mine in some degree.
LOL! The Borg!! That sums it up perfectly. If any non-Scienos want to know what happened to Scientology we can just tell them it was assimilated by the Borg!
So right on and oh so funny.
Yeah, I remember drinking beer with John Nelson after one particularly hot day of MEST work in 1982. You meet some pretty great people on the decks. There can be a different kind of freedom when everyone is in the shits. All status is removed from the equation, there is nothing left to defend and it becomes very egalitarian. Maybe not the RPF, but on the decks that is the way it was often.
Good play on words there, maurizio!
“From my knowledge of auditing technology, running or overrunnung a PC on a process that the PC does not need, is pretty much guaranteed to drive him INTO his case, and have him become effect of the very thing that it was designed to handle. It is BLACK DIANETICS to the core.”
Not to long ago I was listening to The Factors: Admiration and the Renaissance of Beingness and LRH said just that. If I am not mistaken, it was given as an example of doing endless hours of objectives. But for sure it mentioned that an overrun would do the opposite of bringing him up to present time and would drive the PC back into his case.
‘WTF, Holy Shit and then Thank god’ Pretty much the fast track of my story and exactly what I was thinking at the time too!
Yep, I agree with you. Potentially lots of people out there with suppressed Flag horror stories (mine was pretty recent too – Sept 2009) the sad thing is the C of S conditioning that makes one believe that whatever happened was their fault. We were led to believe that the C of S was perfect and could make no mistakes. So if mistakes were made the rationalization that occurs is that we blame ourselves which is a wrong indication and drives us down into the bank further. The even sadder thing is that Flag has the tech to undo this but refuses to do so. In my case I was a double red tag so instead of biting the bullet and taking the bad stat they decided to out-qual me for Flag and get me out before Thurs 2pm. Thus their stat was not affected. Sickos.
Debbie might be positioning herself to be the person waiting in the wings to take over DM’s job if/when CST, IRS or other legal entity lowers the boom on DM.
It seems there is no management inside the Church that can take over because DM dismantled LRH’s checks and balances management system.
Before the mission wipe out in 1982, the various Organizations of Scientology were based exclusively on $ in exchange for auditing and training services.
After that, money started to flow up-lines for “other” reasons, like emptying Mission Holder accounts for “whatever” reason and later creating IAS and other SCN dono institutions that we are all familiar with today. The common thread in all these money rip-offs was DM’s motivation to get money to make his contributions look like he was the “source” of big money. Eventually he co-opted off policy dono institutions like IAS and used the cash to feed the Ponzi scheme to cover his reverse growth of Scientology.
Debbie’s request for Koolaide drinkers to stop paying $ for non-LRH or anti- LRH programs is an attempt to get things “on policy” but it might have a secondary effect of exposing the Ponzi scheme and so maybe get more people on the inside to reform their Church? This might be hard to do because he’s got $1 billion to keep the scam running for Koolaide drinkers for who knows how long.
Well, good luck Debbie, whatever you are doing.
Never say never, but I think the RCS has gone too far South in the past 30 years to “reform”. It does not run on LRH policy and uses the tech to eliminate self-determinism. That’s pretty far south, considering we started with a Bridge to Total Freedom ….
In the end, RCS may be just a Feeder Group for Indies that deliver Standard Tech. Prepare to deliver is correct. You are the real titanium capsules that will preserve the works of L. Ron Hubbard.
The “Mecca of Technical Perplexion”.
A PTS Environment will cause someone to go out of PT.
One spots the SP. It’s not done by running Objectives.
MR: Totally agreed re: MEST work. I do it all the time, working around the house and (big) yard. The health and extroversion benefits are great.
Wonderful so BASIC LRH ref.
The only person who knows what is going on in Debbie’s universe is Debbie.
I’m pointing out that we need to obnose what is observable right now and not fall into the trap of justifying serious out-points by assuming she has a plan.
The above reminds me of a few things. Mainly how I wish we had a few more like you back then. I worked with you in management and the RPF. You saved my butt more than once. In case I never said it — thanks a million, buddy!
Okay, you got me there! I admit to some reasonableness regarding Debbie communicating from an “in good standing” position. My thought being that one of the biggest obstacles to overcome has been getting those still in to LOOK. Because she was “in good standing” many were receptive to getting an email from her and many actually looked and read the email before deleting it which is huge! But your comment has so much truth in it that my reasonableness simply fell to pieces. That was some real “no holds barred” truth telling. Thank you for shifting my perspective on this.
POB is simply unable to see differences, similarities and identies. He takes “solutions” to what he perceives as individual problems and then applies them across the board. There is no PC in front of him, only all PCs. All PCs must be bypassed cases and therefore have the same C/S. Same goes in management: one manager fucks up so all managers fuck up and all fuck ups are PTS so all management are PTS and all PTSs are dramatizing SP valences so all management are SPs and all SPs are out to get him. There is no infinite value logics there is just A=A=A.
His thought process must go something like this. Stats are down, stats are down because someone is holding them down, and those holding them down are those that are not executing my orders, because if my orders were executed then stats would be up. Staff don’t execute my orders because of unflat objectives. Pc do not progress or get the full gains because of unflat objectives. Therefore the why to the whole international mess is unflat objectives. Therefore all staff and public must be run on mega amounts of objectives so that they can get the full gains of Scientology and so that they can duplicate and carry out my orders. When they can do this, they will be able to understand my orders and get them executed, and when this is accomplished then stats will be up.
The same goes with GAT, GAE, and GAK. He cannot evaluate and therefore cannot get a correct why or therefore a correct handling. Can’t see differences, similarities or identities because he is out of valence. Sounds like he is programming every one based on his own needs. GAT because he can’t audit; GAK because he doesn’t grasp Scientology basics; Golden Age of Ethics because he can’t keep his own ethics in.
Mareka, just the most heart wrenching story of total betrayal!
I have been a Scientologist for over 40 years, mainly through
the living application of it’s philosophy. Early on, had some
auditing by the most standard, high ARC auditors,in my local
org. The life changing gains and wins I had are still with me
today, mainly in the form of a pretty stable tone 4.0 and I
therefore find it very easy to approach total strangers and
using obnosis and a cheery remark, spot where they are on the tone scale in seconds. If low, I love notching them upscale.
The point I’m trying to make here, is that I find that REAL Scientology remains such an amazing Tool Box in helping to fix the biggest’problem’on the planet..MISCOMMUNICATION!
….. and it’s downside, misduplication and misunderstanding!!
How differently would you have viewed Flag, had you known
what you know now ?? Lies, Deceit, Blatant false promises,
buying ‘into’ the glitz and opulence, as representing the
‘best of SCN’ available, only to find yourself horribly caught
in a nightmare that shattered your dreams! ( BY LIES!!!!)
VVWD on your eventual re-attest of CLEAR and I’m really
thrilled that you’ve been able to escape that insanity and
regain your own self determinism and sharing it with us
here as an independant. Mom & Dad too proud, I bet!
The “Reformation” is truly underway, a ‘work in progress.’
Lots’a luv & ARC in moving on up a little higher Li’ll bit
I am not trained as an auditor beyond solo auditor. Hoping to change that this year. I can only speak from personal experience . When I started HQS I had been on drugs for two years and it only took me four days to get through the objective auditing. I think the auditor worked with me one to two hours a day during that time. Some of them took minutes to finish. I didn’t have a purif until years later when I was already clear. I didn’t notice any big change in my auditing as a result. Maybe because I was so thin then I thought I just didn’t have any fat cells for drugs to hide in. I was used to walking several miles a day for years before that.
I had fabulous gains on the objectives and all of auditing after that as well. I really have never understood the theories behind the drug cases being more difficult. It is hard to imagine a clear needing objectives at all, unless it’s well into the New Years Eve party.
So,so simple,Tom! Thanks for this LRH Gem.
Here’s another you probably know …”What you can DO…
depends upon…how FEW considerations you have…….
appended …to what you think you CAN do!” ——–LRH
I CSd a number of people on Objectives as recently as two years ago (started CSing Obj’s in the 1970s). Tremendous results and a LOT of fun to CS. Really it is not that tough to do if you follow the basic LRH directions/theory and care about and stay in comm with the pc.
The impulse to violate CS Series 1 by continuing to question/re-run major actions has been rampant during the Miscavige era. We see it with the re-running of objectives now, the constant re-looking into one’s clear status. I saw it a very few years ago when it simply became impossible to actually get off my OWs to any ep – there was always ANOTHER action to “put them there to run” again.
You have at least a couple of things going on here. First, without new people coming into Scientology, Miscavige has to be very clever about inventing “new” games for the group to play. So he’s rallied the group to the whole “buildings game” (that’s an old game even on our planet, the Pharoahs played it, the Catholics played it – can be very aesthetic of course, I love buildings myself) and he has also invented these HUGE “tech games” – you know, no one can meter in the world, hardly anyone is really clear, hardly anyone can audit because no one has correctly drilled, no one understands the basic books, now no one is flat on objectives, etc etc etc and COB has been so fucking sharp that he has scoped all these things out and is now – thank GOD – correcting them. And he’s again been very clever about it. He does ONE thing at a time over a few years; convinces the folks of this ONE thing to great applause at an event and then a few years later “discovers” another outness that he is now “saving” Scientology from. So each thing by itself as it comes up at an event kind of “makes sense” to the folks. In this way, Miscavige is sort of an “evil genius” in the way he has managed this over the years.
Secondly, of course, convincing trained and untrained Scientologists alike that they MUST run objectives again for 100 plus hours, no matter what their case level or how great their previous objectives wins were, ALSO achieves the exact opposite of the purpose of objectives by putting people at complete EFFECT of control (and …. the money, the money….).
Mike Rinder had a great response to my post yesterday. It will be a case of each INDIVIDUAL Scientologist reaching his OWN point of having had enough or coming to a point of real enlightenment on all this.
I think LRH would agree with you.
“Public stay away from orgs in droves that alter tech”
“.oh yeah and of course they’ve already accounted for all the past life Clears…”
Thanks for including this bit. I’ve wondered, since 1991, WHY I have never been able to get ANY traction once I originated Clear. I have attempted several times to get the CCRD, even a trip to Flag and no go.
Sons of bitches, excuse my language but now I am royally pissed off. I KNOW they haven’t accounted for ME, the buzz-tards.
Thanks for sharing your story Mareka – you kicked off a great thread.
For those who’ve been drug through the mud on objectives by misapplications, it shouldn’t be that way.
Doing objectives at the right point on the gradechart can be FUN.
Fortunately, I did Obj. as a PRE-clear, and I must say, it still makes me smile to reflect on things that happened and realizations I had while I did them: making time stop, re-living moments and other situations of enforced duplication, blowing OFF robotism and coming out laughing about it, seeing through and into things, and more. Nowhere near 130 hour – maybe an intensive or two, but I wasn’t counting time by the end!
Thank God my auditor could laugh with me too. We had a blast.
Let me say this to my Auditor: You probably can’t read this with your eyes, but may you get this message that others here will amplify: I know you audited me just because you wanted to since we were both on staff (SO/GO), and you audited me often and on your own time. Thank you, thank you, thank you a thousand times! I love you, and I have such deep gratitude! You have no idea how much you helped. Yet, after reading others’ stories, I am sure you had to endure much in years that followed. May there be joy in your future life, and may there be a day when we can play together once again.
(Thank you Marty, for this forum wherein communication can begin to flow once again).
I did my objectives in Boston in Jan 2009. Did it full time and probably finished in 2 intensives, maybe 2.5.
After L12 I was CSed to do more and did the coAudit in the Coachman for another 150 hours.
What Marty writes is 110% true. I remember a woman being in there who was totally distraught because she had just been declared “unclear” was on Objectives for the third or fourth time.
Wow Brian, I did not know that. It really puts the story of the financial crimes they committed against you into proper focus for me. It adds up now. I gotta tell you I had a little mystery sandwich going there: “how in the hell did they muscle him like that?” Thanks a lot for giving me that missing link – it as-is’d for me.
“Therefore all staff and public must be run on mega amounts of objectives so that they can get the full gains of Scientology and so that they can duplicate and carry out my orders.”
Wow, so happy I left in 1989.
Thank goodness for great auditors.
What I am about to add is going to make me really unpopular. I have often considered the fact that I had been on drugs for so long, a benefit preceeding my coming into Scientology. I was pretty much on cloud nine already for two years. I was instantly able to think with everything I read about being “keyed out”, “keyed out clear” “keyed out OT”. I had been out of the body most of that time. Everything about the reactive mind made sense. I knew through Scientology I could maintain that state without harmful effects when I went exterior doing OTTRO. I knew I was immortal, I had already died a few times and watched it from the ceiling. Sure, my drug rundown was long haul . Rehabbing those states was just a free blast. Honestly there were times I was on staff at the FSO that I thought if one of those staff members took the day off, went down to the beach and smoked some opium and relaxed for the day, they would come back in a better condition. They did seem all fine to me just because they were drug free. In fact, most of them seemed like desperate junkies looking for that shot that would get their stats up before 2:00 p.m.. Just as desperate as a drug addict on the street. And they all seemed like they were getting pimped and didn’t know it, because they were dressed up in uniforms. These issues are all relative. But most were very judgmental of me the whole time because I wasn’t “sqeaky clean”. If that isn’t tripping I don’t know what is. They were not on drugs but they were definitely tripping and couldn’t even see it.
Flag = Mecca of Implant Station!
I am happy for you Mareka… BRAVO! 🙂
VIVE LA LIBERTÉ!
Always Qual. Qual Sec, Cramming Off, Intern sup.
Sam, I totally dig where you’re coming from. And if you’ve read my posts over the past year, you know that I never not-is the fact that Debbie, Heber, Yager, etc ALL actively supported Miscavige and all he did for over 20 years. He could not have done what he did if they didn’t all flow him a tremendous amount of power.
Now, having said that, I do see some method to what Debbie is doing and essentially I think she is doing a good thing. She is just planting a seed, that’s all. Just getting on lines Scientologists to take a look, to at least consider these points if they haven’t already. It’s just a beginning. And that is VERY important. She is speaking to a public that may never have read any of your or Marty’s comm or who might never even CONSIDER the possibility of looking at this website or criticizing COB. This cycle of looking/questioning might take 15 years to accomplish anything or might spread like wildfire and topple Miscavige this year. I certainly have no knowledge of which direction it might take. I’ve stated a number of times that I have no desire for the COS to either reform or to survive. What I do think is very important is:
1) That all people who are currently involved in or have been involved in Scientology are no longer harassed as to their personal connections, family or friends; that they are given the rights that all beings deserve – to postulate and create ARC.
2) That Independant Scientologists (like all beings) get to have the right of free exercise of their religious practice as guaranteed in the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States (and of course I think this right belongs to all people, not just Americans).
And I think that Debbie’s comm has been a contribution towards these goals. Each contribution is a positive and we’ll see where this one takes us. Hopefully it will lead to MORE contributions by more people.
Correction, I mean to write They did NOT seem all fine to me just because they were drug free.
I did my objectives in 1974. I remember roughly 1 1/2 intensives.
As I recall, it was a positive experience. It was part of the overall program.
It was not an end in itself.
Dear Rachel, 64? Me too! Shucks! just a number, hey?
As Mike discoursed so amusingly, ( ye gads I luv this guy)
MEST work is key to maintaining an extroverted AND
healthy outlook. I’m sure you know so well, that keeping
the bod fit, strong and healthy also keeps you YOUNG!!
Here is an “ode” that I wrote and Made as a Plaque for
inspiration of our many members of the commercial Gym
which I owned and operated some years ago:-
This is YOUR body
You picked it up a while back
If you pamper it,or neglect it,
it will soften,weaken and let you down!
Instead,work it HARD! (use up it’s energy stores)
Feed it good, proper nutrition and supplements.
drink lots of pure,spring (or filtered) water
Get lots of proper rest and recuperation !
And you will reap the rewards!
Remember, when you look good, you feel good!
Wishing you much luv & health 2012 Li’ll bit
Running clears and OTS on objectives while the “religious leader” of the Church is on a diet of single malt scotch is definitely tripping.
The out-tech will create more failed cases. These failed cases will not then win in life, being overwhelmed by the over-run and other errors. It is my observation and experience, that this type of overwhelmed state makes it a lot harder to be affluent and make money. So the out-technology has a good chance of bankrupting those who have been the biggest money supporters. I have had out-tech on my case at Flag since 1981. I had money problems ever since. Recently I got on a standard tech line, and now am in Affluence, winning all over the place, my son restored to me and making money, also. EARNING IT, EASILY!
It took very little to straighten all of this out. In fact, no auditing at all. A very simple program. After YEARS OF BEING PROMISED BY FLAG REGISTRARS THAT THE NEXT AUDITING WOULD HANDLE THIS.
I would never in a million years dreamed that I would make this statement:
it would be very difficult to go back to the Church. I would feel that I would be putting my case and my life in Danger. The proof they would have to provide me, that the Situation has been handled, would be almost unimaginable. One only needs a taste of STANDARD TECH to understand how far off the technology has been for years!
It is so easy to get standard tech in the Indie Field, that one is hard pressed to understand how or why one would ever go back to the absolute nightmare that receiving services from RCS has become!
We should be thankful that Scientologists are such wonderful caring people that they are willing to deliver and do deliver STANDARD TECH! All the while risking harassment and practices designed to make them stop. For this I am eternally grateful.
Just my two cents.
Catherine von Ach
It’s sad but true. Also, if you did hundreds of hours of NED last life time and had one NED session this life time that you actually went Clear on the C of S would not take into account your past life auditing and would tell you that you have not done enough NED to go Clear. This invalidation would of course introvert you enough to key-in your bank and make you un-Clear. Then you would have to spend much more money doing hundreds of hours of NED trying to ‘fix’ yourself when there is nothing wrong with you apart from a wrong indication.
I’ve done a few hundred hours of NED after being Clear. It feels weird and I really don’t recommend it.
So yes, the C of S will not accept any more past life Clears and will also not accept any past life auditing either.
‘like’ hint, hint 🙂
I see it a bit more different. Evaluating a case of a person has to be done by the case supervisor in order to get the person up the bridge. But ordering this person on Objectives lets say after OT 3 is a bit different. This is quite an invalidation. And I have experienced that myself and on others what this can cause in this persons life. I knew a gifted musician that after that kind of inval he thought of himself to be very unable and after coming home he worked as a day laborer. He had no more self confidence. Only able to do that kind of work. That is what invalidation can do to people.
They can get very sick. They can think they are somehow crazy. They can think what they can do or have observed they did not see or have done. The purpose of ordering all on Objectives is not to get them up and enlighted and more able but to crush them by invalidation.
Thanks. I needed that.
This is true.
Scientologists of more then 20 years being aboard do LIC Courses.
Hi. I have a question for you. Do you have children, or have you ever looked after babies or very small children?
The reason I ask, is because if you have, you will very likely have gone around with your baby/child and pointed things out to them. You know… like… “look at that _____”, “that is a _____” , “what is that?”, “Go get the ball… OK bring it back”, “Lets play “pat-a cake”, “lets play hide the _____,.. Ok, I’ll go first….OK, now it is your turn”, “look around here and find something that is RED” ,etc.
To me, these are all real life examples of some “processes” ( with children we call them “games”) that are very similar to some of the Objectives and Havingness processes.
Perhaps what you witnessed were cold and robotic, forceful and demanding, lacking ARC.
I think that if the auditor were “playing the game of” (auditing) ” look around here and find something that you wouldn’t mind being where it is”, you would likely enjoy it. (assuming that it was the correct action for your case at the time).
You cannot take the ARC out of auditing and expect it to be any fun.
Thought it over again and concluded (again) that the current Church should just be left to fall, Sea Org, Freewinds, huge Idle Orgs, and all. What a colossal waste. It needs to be restructured so that a DM could never take hold again, but doing this in an organization that has strayed so far from its purpose looks problematical. It is like a house that costs more to repair than to build new. It seems to make more sense to it fall and rebuild and carry on as Independents. That’s my .02.
This post really was an “AHA” moment. There does not seem to be any time specification for these processes so with that I allowed myself to do them again.
I was between a rock and a hard place. I finished Grade IV, the L’s, and Flag had my folders. They refused to let me on NED and refused to release my folders back to Boston.
So, it was:
a) do objectives for as long as they say no matter how many times I originated the EP
b) stop all Bridge progress
I really and truly felt those Objectives had a negative effect on me. NED went really poorly and thats when I went and started my Auditor training in the Coachman– and then finally left for good a few months after that.
The Sea Org staff don’t even realize they are homeless and living on bunks provided by a Church.
My guess is she legally is limited as to what she can do, her email likely followed the guidelines of her gag order, and she TR 3’d her original intention from the email, with her letter to Tampa Bay Times. She is smart, and I am 99% sure there is a long term strategy up her sleeve.
One day I got a call, telling me I needed to come back to Flag, because it had been found out, that my last major action had actually not been done properly. And I needed to pay for several new intensives.
They only had one problem: I was an interned Class IV auditor (old school), and I knew, that everything had been done perfectly. The f/n had been gotten to the examiner after each session, the rundown’s ep had been reached.
That was the day I knew Flag could no longer be trusted, and in my eyes the flag of Flag was at half-mast, reflecting the death of standard tech.
I heard Tommy Davies say, “We have all of these new buildings…”
We? Come on, Tommy has no deed to any of those buildings.
Dave has probably ordered 300 hours Objectives to the RPFers. Extending their stay by at least another 3 years.
Then I’m glad of it.
Not because I want to attack Debbie in any way or weaken her position. I don’t. I like Debbie immensely and I’m sure it took a lot of courage for her to do what she did.
But she has personally witnessed our friends going off to the gas chambers and yet remains silent. She needs to confront that.
I won’t accept anything less nor expect it from someone of her calibre.
Sounds like Dm is dramatizing his next case level on others.
The thing about having been on drugs giving you insights and awarenesses that were helpful later in your auditing and such, does not make you the least bit “unpopular” with me. I have similar experience.
That having been said, I would like to express the following:
The problem with drugs is that they are so unpredictable in their “results”. Very few people who have used drugs have gotten better for it. Drugs have no gradient and because of this can totally overwhelm the being on all sorts of levels simultaneously. Drugs have the nasty ability to restimulate vast areas of one’s track and bring them all into present time HARD! and the being tends to get fixated into that incident. It can badly mess up one’s time track. If one does not happen to be very lucky, or already in excellent mental and spiritual shape, he is well and truly opening the “pandora’s box” of his unconfronted track. Few actually come out unscathed. Fewer still actually experience some form of “enlightenment”. The drugs generally tend to make cases more charged and fixated, and therefore harder to handle.
So… I would, in no way recommend the use of “drugs” (including alcohol) as a “valid process”, in Scientology terms.
( here is my recall on what a “valid Process” is…. “anything that increases the being’s ability to create matter, energy, space, time, and form, and the ability to create time and space, in which to create, and/or place matter and energy, is a valid process. All else are not.”)
Oracle, hahaha ok that was funny!
There is no exact reference, just as there is no LRH text demanding the wonderous 3-swing F/N.
But there are LRH texts which could be used to pump up the hours. Like the LRH instruction to do 25 hours of Op Pro By Dup (except that this instruction is for a very special case).
There is a definition of “flat point” from the 1950s or earlier 1960s which – if applied – will make some objectives longer.
If you study the texts on CCHs (level 1 course pack, or better in the red volumes) you will know what I mean.
One should not underestimate the amount of nonsense that can be brought about by “selective quoting”.
Totally, I’m aware of others who have had similar stories. Hopefully this thread will help more reach for services outside of the chop house known as Flag and clean up the abuses and invals they have endured. Maybe there is a list somewhere of auditors who specialize in sorting out cycles like this?
Bingo, it’s mind control to the max
I experienced a strange thing, after the gain of Debbie’s letter, I felt sort of roller coaster, like a “regret”. Not my regret, but maybe the regret of church people, or whatever, who might have been convinced by Debbie’s letter and now “recant”. I have no data on that, it’s just a perception. Might be just a restim, not a fact. But having this feeling show how much the confomity is implanted. It’s the whole restim of past religions attacking heretics, blasphemy and all. Midlle age stuffs. Going back to Marty’s bog ease up the restim.
I was very moved by the story of Mareka James. Real live testimony, it blows charge, as-is really.
Otherwise this quote on overrun being like hypnotism is very true. Actually one can go very low tone invalidating his state and witholding himself all the time even with friends and family. It’s a living hell, not being able to be oneself. Overrunning may put one completely out of valence, validating the bank, not the being. This is criminal, criminal, criminal. If I would dare, I would say that DM is alike nazis criminels on the 7th D.
“Never regret yesterday, life is in you today and you make your tomorrow.”
Such wonderful words the old man wrote.
dm has created an environment where people are afraid. He has said by his actions, “you are all bad and must be contained”.
As a result, his empire will fail because people living in fear cannot create.
And without the ability to create — societies, civilizations, churches, begin to crumble.
What is being done OUTSIDE of the RSC, is a meeting ground of various individuals who consider themselves “indies, or freezoners, or anons, or not a label but an interest” who feel safe enough to create.
Marty, Mike and others have created an environment on this blog were people feel safe enough to look.
Seems to me that what we are talking about here and encouraging is a slight add-on to Darwin —
“Survival of the good”
Eventually that which is RCS will disappear. It is not good. It harms people, scares people, makes them into distrusting souls.
you are so not alone with your experience. I don’t need to tell you the amount of effort that is needed to stay at Flag (payments, free time etc.). And when there, what can happen to you, according to my observations ?
Getting routed out quickly (and sometimes even declared) if
# anything you say could be interpreted as a sign of suicide
# anything you say could be interpreted as a sign of mental instability
# anything you say or have could be interpreted as a serious sickness (like that high toned lady, no medical symptoms at all, but infected by the so-called AIDS-virus – which doesn’t even exist according to various non-mainstream medical sources)
Turning away people in need – I guess that’s typical for just one “church” on this planet.
Thank you! You write sooth!
I agree! VIVE LA LIBERTÉ!
I would think your perception of a ‘vacuum’ is correct. That vacuum should be filled ASAP with true data before any ‘dub-in’ occurs since ‘nature abhors a vacuum’ as LRH quotes old philosophers in PR series 18, HOW TO HANDLE BLACK PROPAGANDA..
We certainly can’t promote orgs at this point. In any case it has to be LRH data that is theta, useful and appealing to the public.
I don’t know if Debbie has the necessary ammunition to inject more truth and theta into that vacuum. Smart as she we can only hope so.
I understand your disappointment with her 2nd Letter.
She is running a cycle on her group. It’s another “universe” with it’s own rules. She carries the best message she can – and methinks that she knows what she does.
I don’t know what you’ve been trough in the Corporate Organisation of Scientology. I really don’t know. Maybe you lost all your hope that the Church can be brought back to the roots. Maybe it has no worth for you.
May it be as it is – it’s your Scientology too.
Maybe Debbie does not care about Free Zoners and Indies. But I am sure that she cares about all the good Scientologists who left the church because of the arbitraries and off-policy. And I am sure she cares about all `faild-cases` as a product of out Tech.
She does. It’s her Scientology too.
Life is fluent, we seldom know what tomorow brings – we can only postulate the best and carry on.
There are no references, written or spoken by L. Ron Hubbard which state that every case requires 130 hours of Objectives to reach the EP of any, or all of the Objectives.
I didn’t said that.
But I don’t care if some one is Indipendent or Corporate Scientologist.
In my eyes we’re all Scientologists.
And I disagree that everything is bad about the Organisation.
There are loads of arbitraries and loads of new inventions not needed at all.
We don’t need the disconnection Policy reinvented by PoB. We don’t need lots of things he invented.
But I know that the vast majority of Scientologists are good people. They only need a new management, able enough to re-establish the goals of the Goal-Maker.
That would be fun and I go for it.
You may laugh about it — but why would you do that?
“In Good Standing” is just a term in the CoS Universe.
I understand that you would like that she makes her universe a little bit broader to include the “out-of-the-church” Scientologists.
But methinks she accomplished very much in just a week.
I understand and I know that nothing of this would be possible without Marty, Mike, the good guy who created http://www.scientology-cult.com and all the Independents who have thrown the first stone against the wall.
So many people who went out and said: “enough is enough”. With all the declarations of Independence. With all their reports.
I want to see more people free and able.
That’s why I am a Scientologist. And I think that any being should have the ability of an “independant point of view”. At least this is the game I am after.
That douchebag Miscavige is Executive C/Sing the entire field with a blanket C/S.
As an executive C/S’s to his own case level, I would surmise that Miscavige is unflat on Control and runs compulsive control on others in an insane attempt to survive by making others succumb.
A sane individual is willing to control or be controlled toward pro-survival objectives.
Good point and write-up, Journey.
I thought the GAE meant “gross auditing errors.” GAT=GAE=GAK
The direction Marty, Haydn, Les and the like are going is the only direction worth following.
RCS being reformed with or without Debbie Cook (we can only speculate there), is about as likely as ENRON being reformed.
Debbie’s first email was awesome.
Her later one is either a carefully-crafted plan or it’s utterly unrealistic and quite invalidative to the driving force making the most progress toward eradicating DM. And that force can be found right here, on this very blog.
Mucho correct-o indication-o.
In DM’s Universe, anyway.
Set aside the Objectives, her last statement says, “In this way, someone coming to get through their lower Bridge can complete the Objectives, Grades and NED in a matter of weeks.” I just finished up my grades this past year and there is NO way anyone can finish up in just a matter of weeks! Talk about quicky grade completions. I’m sure their product speaks for itself… That’s where Marty comes in–clean up POB’s mess!
My friend, I hear you.
One thing I can offer my personal opinion on; would LRH have “blown”. Well, what does that mean in fact to “blow”? Is it a phenomena of withdraw to destimulate, shake off the confusions of a chaotic entanglement and shake out the KRC gained? Is it severe out-Int/Ext? Is it a “blow off” and the manifestation of undisclosed contra-survival acts and the effort to restrain further acts by leaving the area where one is compulsively committing them, i.e., an attempt at protecting the dynamics from one’s aberrated solutions that one can’t seem to get as-ised? Is it being put out by a suppressive environment/person?
It could be any of the above, or even the simplicity of the right to leave a game.
How would LRH handle the scene that you, me and all sorts of us faced while in the SO under DM? Here’s my opinion: were he in the position that you, I and all sorts of us faced in that suppressive nuthouse, he’d start all over again, in another time and place, with the same overall purpose and ensure that all his chickens weren’t in one basket, but that many, many hens were laying in all sorts of different places.
That’s exactly what he did in the early 50’s when DMSMH was “taken” from him. That’s how come he established operation in England, Australia, Africa as well as the US. That’s one of the main impetuses behind the Sea Org itself.
Look at it this way; we float, able to assume new viewpoints and from there hold new positions and generate power. Always free to move, to change, to be pan-determined and with the aim in sight, and the means a continuing gain of KRC on just how to play this big, broad game.
“Leaving” is a state of mind. It is my opinion, neither you nor LRH have “left”. I’m glad for you both having the tenacity to perservere from wherever you happen to be holding a position.
I have known for many years that Objectives are done pretty early on the Grade Chart before a person goes Clear. I have never in seen in writing anywhere by LRH that Clears and OT’s need to be run on Objectives before continuing. Without saying too much about that, most people will just leave the church and seek gains elsewhere. 🙂 That is not LRH’s idea but you know who’s, David Miscavige, squirrel of all squirrels.
I have seen you and Debbie make references to “checks and balances”.
Can you give more specifics on that?
I know a lot of people still in who are in a similar situation and you’re right.I don’t think any of them are bad either and it isn’t my intention to condemn them.
I don’t consider leaving staff in an organisation that is no-longer operating on LRH policy to be a blow. I consider it to be the correct application of a Doubt Formula.
If you can’t change the situation from within then it’s time to find another way. I’m not so sure LRH would do it any differently but then I can only speak for myself.
From the Flag C/S, Scientology looks so difficult and complex to be applyed standardly, that no one ever made it through objective with 100% standard tech and attained all the ablity that should be gained at this level.
The MECCA of Technical PERFECTION is here since…
how many years?
And only very few ever made it through the objective?
Since the golden age of tech has been released, it’s about time to get an auditor trained who can deliver the objective properly, don’t you think?
And with the GAT, 100% standard auditors should be legion (per what you promised.)
Poor little Miscavige. You are working so hard to make this tech available to all and many years later look what they do with your hard work: they cant even train proper auditors.
I understand now your strategie for Super Power.
100 of thousand dollars regged every single week, probably closed to 200 millions dollars of donation collected and look:
Not one single refund since 1986, date this project started.
Not a single PC not happy with her/his service.
Not a staff member of Super Power doing over product.
Not one single PC quickied on any process.
This Super Power project is such a dream.
Only donation comming in and you don’t have to deliver one single hour of auditing in exchange.
The prefect business.
You are so smart and inteligent, I am sure you have a plan to turn every Ideal Org into such a success, haven’t you?
“Rolling on the floor laughing there asses off”
their, not there
Mike: a friend of mine told me recently that the way you could tell Star Trek embodied an advancement of humankind and high technology is that the department heads could hold a meeting that lasted a few minutes that arrived at a conclusion that set the whole ship into action.
You think Miscavige is an “evil genius” but he is only a rip off. I know of a number of his “discoveries” that have been the actual discovery of someone else. I could tell you a number of “discoveries” that he attributed to himself that were the work of someone else and that later he corruted them in intend or purpose or use for the benefit of his “overall vision of Scientology” (to destroy it by actual evidence).
May be someday this will out.
I think it is pretty well covered at savescientology.com
Many others such as Mithoff went along with this, and they’d pretty well have to back good ‘ol DM. Secondly, to possibly agree with Reforms as called for from the Freezone must most certainly be squirrel Business. Can’t have that. Gotta “Save Face” … or do something else yet.
Good observation. They deny you the gains of the Grades and NED and in the name of “Objectives” turn you into a deployable agent.
Not to mention forwarding more lies originated by Miscavige – and implanted at his events and incessant false press releases and representations to media, officials and the like.
Brian, I gotcha. I wonder how much money they extracted after the Objectives-after-L’s began.
By the way, A college-class athlete, and yoga master to boot, has more theta-mind-body coordination and control walking in off the street than 99.9999999% of OT’s produced by that asylum. It was therefore, in my estimation, a doubly vicious implant attempt in the name of “Scientology.”
or expect to get any result.
What a telling experience. May I ask what year that was?
Your org back in the 70’s had a true help flow. HQS is the best remedy for lower bridge and making real scientologists.
Beyond the suppressive intent, I think after the tech began to be altered, with fewer pc’s winning as a result, this naturally caused more and more unusual solutions to be tried, as when introducing an arbitrary. Not surprising for the Church of Missed FN’s.
I was at first disappointed by Debbie’s letter to the Tampa Bay Times. I wondered if someone had gotten to her.
I had put her on a pedestal and attributed goddess like qualities to her. A goddess wouldn’t be surprised by all the media attention. A goddess would know what she was doing. A goddess would have a plan. A goddess wouldn’t back down.
But alas. As wonderful as Debbie is, she may just be as human as you and me.
Thank you very much, Han Solo.
Thank you. I did get that.
I just wonder if RTC `compiled` any materials for that purpose.
How is this indoctrinated on the borader scale, in Orgs (, Auditors, C/S’s).
Jan — Funniest comment of the day.
Wow, it seems DM is running his case on every one in his church. What a hoot, i.e. if it weren’t so tragic.
One thing I know, she created massive `boil-off` on org lines.
Some charge will blow by those of the 80% (always a good eye-opener).
The PTS ones (DMs sycophants) will dramatize the whole thing to an excess.
The 2nd letter was the best thing she could do to at least let the on-lines Scientologists know, that she is a white-hat.
It’s very easy being labeld as SP or some such.
“We certainly can’t promote orgs at this point. In any case it has to be LRH data that is theta, useful and appealing to the public.”
I understand that position.
I understand her. I think she didn’t give any data (LRH) in her second letter, because she honestly wants to handle this internally (it would classify her as an SP talking to the media in any other way – this would make Dead Agenting her much easier to the SCN Public, as “anyone knows” that only SPs talk to the media.
But she is somehow genius. Like her very much for this stunt.
So nice to see you participating here Fareka!
Haydn, well, golly, you were so hard to handle. If there were a lot more execs like you we would have won easily. I love you like a twin brother my brother.
Jim – no, I blew. I said “All of you can kiss my ass, iamouttaherefuckyou”. It wasn’t an 808008 collide with the physical universe and withdraw, reorganize and re-attack, it was leaving with my tail between my legs. My point is; should I have stayed and tried to handle it from inside? Not with the data I have now with these gigantic rear-view mirrors we all have access to and after ten years of destimulation. I am not in shame-blame and regret on anything I did. I am more than willing to foray back into the battlefield and set it all right. And no, that doesn’t mean go back into the Sea Org – I may be stupid but I ain’t dumb.
We are all where we are and now we need to fix it. And we need to fix it now. IMHO
I am wondering just how much Debbie Cook knows of the actual existing scene having left in 2007. From 2007 to 2012 it has gotten exponentially worse . The predatory extortion of funds has reached heights not known to you and me.
However she was in SP hole and knows all about the darker side….
Debbie Cook says
In fact he put it in HCOB 10 June 1960 Issue I, Keeping Scientology Working Series 33, WHAT WE EXPECT OF A SCIENTOLOGIST. Read it and follow it.
You have a very simple obligation to LRH. Don’t participate in anything off policy, and let others know they should not either.
I read from this that Debbie is saying, let’s just get back more on Policy and we can all go home happy and live happily ever after.
Debbie is far from naive. The missing ~~ the huge omission that we all have in trying to analyze her words ~~ is what her GAG order says. Without reading the gag order, and contract she signed with consideration $$$ we are flying blind in interpretation.
When we first got the ship, those of us who worked in the Engine Room on the Freewinds used to clean the bilges as a necessary (yet oddly enjoyable) activity before it became the de rigueur punishment prescribed by the RCS powers-that-be. Needless to say, completely cleaning out 18 years of accumulated bilge scum in a nearly 450 foot long ship was a Herculean task of many years. Nevertheless, we did it whenever we had time.
At a certain point we were told to stop cleaning and repainting the bilges so that others could be made to do it. (Cleaning the bilges was thought of as a degrading task by Int management and senior executives on the ship). And yes, it was also perceived as degrading and unpleasant by most of the people who were forced to do it as well.
To the engineers, the bilges had to be cleaned out in order for the ship to sail safely and pump out any water that could potentially enter the ship via a breach in the hull or an unexpected leak from the network of pipes running the length of the vessel.
Yes, it was a filthy, slimy, hot, noisy, stinking and dangerous job. But so what? We knew that we were doing what had to be done in order to create a safe space where OTVIII could be delivered. It was the purpose that made it fun. Sort of an adventure in muck!
We in RTC want you to know that COB read Debbie Cook’s e-mail and, needless to say, declared her an SP. Her SP Declare will be carefully locked up in selected Ethics Officer’s cabinets under lock and key.
Debbie’s SP Declare will only to be shown on demand to those who can prove they received Debbie’s e-mail. Moreover, the person asking to read Debbie’s SP Declare must give OSA a print out of the e-mail they received along with the e-mail address, the IP address, and pathway of the e-mail as this is needed for detection.
Debbie will not be receiving a copy of her SP Declare due to COB’s policy in which SP’s Declare are kept confidential when a person publicly blows. The logic on COB’s part is flawless: When a person publicly blows and attacks Mankind’s only hope, i.e. COB, such a person cannot be trusted with any communication or datum from the RTC. Debbie knows the magnitude of her crimes against COB. She does not need a piece of goldenrod to remind her.
We in RTC are offering a big reward for e-mail lists of persons to whom the Debbie Cook e-mail was sent. Anyone turning in a mailing list will receive a free IAS pen and pen holder.
Scott — I had no problem with the bilges or anything else in the E/R. I spent so much time there I became pretty expert at every apect of ER maintenance from the bilges to the main engine headers to the fuel tanks, gennies, A/C, steering flat and every nook and cranny of the entire place. There is no shame in competently handling MEST 🙂
That’s what our “after noon muster” Engine Room product conferences with the Chief Engineer were like. Just a few minutes – then back into action.
Good examples, George, thanks.
This little bit of the mail is particularly vicious; the evaluation of not having money and MEST being that one has unflat or undone Objectives. How much money and MEST? Is this part of the eval of when are the Objective processes EPed (end phenomena for each process reached)? Check your bank account and ride to see if it quals?
This is the centerpiece of DM’s campaign for MEST orgs, MEST Div 6’s, MEST auditor training in GAT – do they now have the money/MEST that would make Tom Cruise cheery? Are they successful in the most middle classed of the most most middle class beourgoisie definitions – a fine car, Rolex watches and a house in Vale? You gotta have a wife on Real Housewives (? “real”) and a membership at the club and then you have EPed the Objectives.
Yeah, this part of this email, aside from the suppressive Exec CSing, was the one that tweaked me and brought back images of Longshanks and Primo Nocte and yes, I’ll admit it, taking a Claymore up and butt naked and painted blue with the screech of the pipes and the tunder of drums, running over that crest and scaring the shit of this paintywaisted, milksopping, bandy-legged chicken shit peckerwood, David Miscavige AND all that with nary a dime in me pocket and my pick-up in need of tires.
But really Dave, I’d come in my 75 GMC, with the 355 overbored small block, the 700R transmission and those Rainbow glass pipes giving it a note that is just sooooooooooo nice, and…
Money and MEST. You idiot. You parvenu boor. You are such a ‘toon.
You’re the guy that assaulted his preclear. You’re an American Psycho. You’re a Whole Track SP that is too late – the remedy is spread far and wide.
Suck me arse, you feckless feck-face.
Marty, I was hoping you could illuminate the data I received today that is referenced in the Cl 6 course. With regard to the “new” tech on being perfect with all the stimulating drills to gain our perfection as auditors, LRH talks about this and how perfection will actually drive you crazy. I heard this through another Cl 6 but don’t know the ref. It makes sense though how as an auditor or solo auditor if you had to go for perfection you would drive yourself crazy (constantly introverted on self checking what you’re doing) and you couldn’t possibly have your TRs in thus BE in session. Let me (us) know the data on this as I find it fascinating in relation to the new bots that are being created with GAOT (ugh).
This seems to correlate to the redo of Objectives, Clear, etc etc. Trying to reach perfection?!
One more thought, Mareka, as I read over all this again.
The WORST thing about the invalidation, evaluation, squirreling and suppression at FLAG is this:
1) FLAG is supposed to be the thing that will finally make it all come out right when everyone else has messed the pc up—they’re the “case crackers!”
2) But then FLAG does its nasty deeds, caves the person in and kicks him out.
3) His last resort has failed. Everything in the universe depended on FLAG being able to unlock the secret combination that would finally help the person, and it couldn’t deliver.
4) The being is left with NO HOPE.
No wonder some have committed suicide after being mishandled by Flag and kicked out. That feeling of NO HOPE just plows them underneath the tidal wave.
Thankfully, there is still HOPE. The Indie field is actually delivering. That’s the message we need to get through to people.
As early as March 1952, LRH pointed out very clearly that unclear auditors would invariably look for and try to run on their PC’s those items necessary to resolve the auditor’s own case, not the Preclears. This was at the very beginning of Scientology, before there were C\S’es, Grade Charts, Academy Levels, TR Courses, Metering courses, “Executive C\S’ing”, Ivory Tower rules, etc. As the movement grew and progressed, the Dirs of Training were initially accomplished Auditors.
For DM to bray about “the blind leading the blind” was ignorant and uninformed. With a generation of “Scientologists” now MIS-TRAINED, it is a daunting task we have ahead of us. But to the point, yes he is seeking to resolve his case through what he assigns to others. And failing miserably at it in an Epic fashion, I must say.
Let’s hope the best, that she is not the “Galileo” of Scientology.
This made me cry. “Leaving” is a state of mind. It is my opinion, neither you nor LRH have “left”.”
I am not privy to what Debbie has planned, but I trust her, despite it all, just as I trust Marty and Mike. That does not mean I am blindly following, but I do trust them to follow LRH. I didn’t blindly follow LRH either, but I do trust him.
It’s called an “emotional curve” The emotion of the transition from “Being” to “Not Being” that occurs over a period of seconds, minutes, hours, days , weeks, etc. There was a time when not only “thought” was run out of facsimiles. but emotion and effort as well. Part of it was “running the emotional curves” out of them. The ability side of the coin was addressed by Rising Scale Processing, essentially demonstrating to a person that they could determine their relative degree of beingness on their own determinism. If I tried to discuss any of this with a Corporate Scientologist in good standing, I’d be labeled a squirrel. It is sad really, how they are so unaware of the underlying philosophy of their “Religious Practice”.
“Granting of Beingness and Duplication are the same order of Magnitude as Healing.” – LRH
“But I am sure that she cares about all the good Scientologists who left the church because of the arbitraries and off-policy. And I am sure she cares about all `faild-cases` as a product of out Tech.
She does. It’s her Scientology too.”
I can not and do not speak for Debbie Cook. What I can say is that the person I knew and worked closely with is just as you stated above. She cares very much.
To Claire’s and a few others comments about the COS maybe being impossible to fix – I always wondered what the path was to get Hitler’s Germany fixed, but it does seem like it is (relatively) fixed, at least no more insane than any other country… Key thing was Hitler killing himself, and Germany’s defeat.
On Debbie Cook – I see her email(s) as an effective (very) blow against the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of, despite personal danger.
Eric, Thank you for your words of wisdom. I was not recommending the use of drugs either. I just meant to say I do not consider people that have taken drugs more handicapped than others who have not taken them.
People with drug situations have a bad rap in Scientology. The Sea Org Members I knew consider them DB’s, “druggies” who carried the virus of en experience through the hallways. The Narconons in Italy kept the Flag Land Base afloat for years. (And therefore fed and clothed the staff at Int). The E.D. of Beverly Hills Mission who was wildly popular in California and an OT4 was declared an S.P. for snorting some bump at some party. Geeze how about a review???? The Narconon staff were treated like trash by the E.D. of Narconon, who came into that position because she had had a few drinks (for real). Well, here is to our sqeaky clean Mr. David Miscavige. How is that working out for everybody? He might not be a druggie personality. But if that guy isn’t tripping I don’t know who is.
It has gotten to the point that if you don’t walk into an Org having never been laid, having never even had a tablespoon of cough syrup, without 2 million in the bank and all the time in the world on your hands, they really are not too happy to see you. The cream are the Sceintology kids CMO who have been running the Church for three decades. How has that worked out? Objectives on clears on OT’s. Those people are tripping.
You aren’t going to fix that with a purif, some vitamins and objectives.
That would be easy.
I’ve got an Objective process for these IAS Patrons. Pick up an 8lb maul, walk over to that Super Power building and start in on a “demo”. Do it until you run out the glee, until you get really angry and keep going until you have a long hearty laugh, and have the EP with a full cognition that YOU are a spiritual being and this MEST means nothing, is not other than a symbol and is as ephemeral as DM in the scheme of things.
I got someone who had been on heroin for 40 years off of it, to this day been 15 years now, by having him do a doubt formula on whethere he wanted to be a drug addict or not.
DM PRINTS the ethics books and look at the condition he is in. It would be easier for any Scientologist right now to go pull a drug addict off the street in South Central and patch that person up and get him standing on on his two feet again than it is going to be to handle David Miscavige. Or the extensions of himself.
I’ll give you my take on the initial letter to the thousands of people and the follow up letter to the newspaper.
When I read the initial letter the first thing that came to my mind was Step Two of the Liability formula. For anyone who doesn’t have access to the formula it states: “Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of despite personal danger.” If that letter wasn’t exactly that, I don’t know what was.
Unfortunately when I read the follow up letter it read like a Doubt formula, specifically Step 2 which is, “Examine the statistics of the individual, group, project or organization.” As someone else commented, by the end of the letter it was sounding like OSA wrote it. This is not the direction I was expecting things to take.
I don’t know what’s going on and don’t even know if I want to know. All I can say is if anyone thinks they can take on a bully like DM from the inside, think again. It’ll never happen.
At last! should have figured it out. Thanks!
Marty, that includes you and to paraphrase the Ol’ Man,
” …may a new day dawn for you and those you love…)
Exactly, Claire. Like!
As of Saturday night, tonight, my superficial survey of people who were here friends on Monday, but who are not her friends as of tonight, is 9 out of 12 people un-friended her.
She’s lost 9 of 12 friends in 6 days.
I searched around to see others who are still her friends, looking on the friends of the 3 above people still her friends.
Without much hard looking I found 5 more people who have not buckled, who are still her friends.
So 7 out of 17 are still her friends.
Of the 7, 4 are ex-FSO staff who I presume knew and respected Debbie in their years of working with her at the FSO. They form the majority of the people still remaining friends with her, on Facebook, from my superficial survey.
I’ll keep looking for respected official Scientologists who are NOT buckling to being told Debbie is a “bad girl” and should be un-friended.
So far, the majority of the Scientologists still in good standing who haven’t un-friended her are people who I know at least 3 of them worked with her in their years as staff at the FSO.
Well, Darth Midget simply glossed over the fact that he was the one doing the leading, now didn’t he ?
Michael A. Hobson
Oracle, you Shine,Shine,Shine thru’ it all, luv ya!
I went to ASHO to go clear and I got no where near it as well. They kept me at the bottom to do it all over again. Then my road out started and I am glad for that.
I just had to reread that Flag email. Sort of a morbid fascination thing I suppose but I had to convince myself it said what it actually said,
I got to the last line and it really gave me the hibbie gibbees –
“I want to help you get there. Call me or write anytime for anything.”
Man, Thetans ain’t bodies, once an exteriorization occurs stop the process and move on to something else. Ploughing attention back in… what a terrrible thing to do to someone. Just how valuable is a good auditor who knows his fundamentals. All you people out there who’ve been through an honest internship, take a bow, you’re valuable.
Karen#1, a VERY important chunk of understanding here,
and,to those impatient for Debbie’s head on a pike, there
happened to be a word of sagely advice, from our laser
sighted host, where he urged patience and wisdom in letting her play her hand out. It’s becoming clearer to me,
(at least!) that here, we have an extremely savvy and
skilled SCN practioner of vast experience, who has not
yet had the benefits of actual ‘decompression’, taken for
granted, by some posting here.
At the VERY LEAST, grant her THAT, will you?????
Just stumbled across the following LRH quote re objectives:
“If you can communicate to somebody, or with somebody, and get that person to answer your questions, even somewhat laboriously, and so forth, you have no business using the CCHs. That’s about what that amounts to. And the CCHs can be categorized in that fashion now only because we can get rid of hidden standards. …
…Now in view of the fact that we have Problems Intensives, you can relegate the CCHs back to where they came from, which is processing in the absence of verbal communication… you can process somebody you can’t talk with. And that’s where the CCHs belong. Well, therefore, they are important.”
LRH lecture VALENCES, CIRCUITS 18 October 1961.
I agree on this TRs cycle and some times they take the people on Objectives on Auditing on the HGC. That is crazy get people pay for this just for money.
FSO make so much money that people don’t know. Even I make so much money for them they still not pay to me.
Very insightful Post.
P.S. No less a Lion, than Marty, himself, divulged, in
his S.P Times i’view, that it took him around 4 years,
to ‘decompress’ after the madness of enacting the
‘mind controlled orders’, of Kapitein Kamikazi, over
a cumulative period of 20 odd years.
How could it be any different for Debbie, subject to
the same manipulation and threatened expulsion
from her perceived “eternity” at the hands of this
erstwhile, but utterly insane, ” Decider of one’s FATE?
If still in doubt here, I suggest you review the Video!!
“I was sitting quietly next to my mother. Tears streamed down my face. I looked at my mother – tears streamed down hers.”
Tears streamed down mine, when I read this. Thank you for communicating.
Is the 1970 OT 8 identical with the New OT 8 of today?
It is promulgated in a POBal Bull.
I should have said that I never saw the value of TRs and Objectives — as a level — *for me*. I had an auditor that did great on life repair for me, so it definitely was the TRs and Objectives that weren’t working for me. The next processes she ran also went well.
I have used locational processes when they were needed (on myself and on others), and yes, I have stepkids, and used some processes on my youngest. In particular, Sunshine Rundown was a great action for me.
I know other people have gotten great wins on the TRs & Objectives, they just weren’t my cuppa. In my case, I think I really needed to have Grade 0 first. Heresy to say that, I know, but I needed some considerations about communication handled first. I was weirdly shy about talking in front of others when I was still in, and didn’t get that handled until after I left. It affected my studies all across the board in Scn because star rates were problematic.
As an example, the local community college required a speech class in order to graduate. I enrolled in it seven times before I finally finished it after leaving the CofS.
George, pleased to “meet ” you! ……. Yes,this is just so
devastatingly true! Even thoughtless, careless remarks, CAN, in themselves, leave lifelong scars and unhealed damage, particularly to those more sensitive, creative, artistic souls amongst us, who delight in serving up
their ‘creations’ for us to share!
Deliberate,invalidation, is another matter entirely!
Here is the Orchestrator of destruction at his S.P.best!
Compassion, is a missing concept in His make-up and
any such unsuspecting being, who is duped enough to fall for his 1.1 P.R enticements, is in for a ride straight
into the ‘ Hell ‘ of unimaginable mental pain and suffering, as you shared in your post above.
We’ve ALL done it, at times and perhaps, we need to
take stock and realise,it’s actually just self defeating,
to do this, to those who may be helping us survive!!!
Luv & ARC Li’ll bit
I think the co-Audit was the beginning of the end because I received 150 and gave about the same to a staff member from Vancouver. We did that believe it or not in three weeks or so– it was brainwashing, pure and simple.
Believe it or not– I EPed Objectives when I read this post. Cog, VGI’s and all.
I never EPed Objectives at Flag because I was being audited over a PTP (so angry for being made to do it) and Laurie Webster would wait outside the room on my lunch break a few days a week.
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I believe Debbie is attempting to build a mutiny within. She has to realize she will be declared no matter what she does.
I have not much familiarity with OT 8, current or old, but I would like to share my very personal thoughts and experiences. They might not to apply to anyone else, but maybe they do to some:
Spiritually I came from an asian tradition. Before Scientology I was involved in a type of tibetan meditation. One of the exercises consisted of “being there and looking”, not more. E.g. when a somatic would appear, I just looked at it and it disappeared.
Later, in the mid seventies I did the TRs and Objectives Co-Audit Course and before running we drilled the processes so thoroughly that I had reached the ED during the drilling which made the running afterwards somewhat boring.
Later I was on a post where I audited many, if not hundreds of hours of objectives. That left its traces on me. One cannot really audit objectives and not be in present time oneself.
For some mysterious reason I was put on objectives then again, as a pc. On CCH 1-4, I was wide exterior from the first command and the auditor, somewhat robotic, struggled through the process commands. On the part, where you duplicate the hand motion of the auditor, the distance between auditor and pc was widened when the cycle is flat and soon – don’t laugh now – we were so distant as the walls of the room permitted. (It was big course room.) Somehow that auditor sensed now that something was wrong and ended the session. I had just been there looking, just like in this old time meditation drill.
No invalidation had touched me because I had given no resistance to it, had given it no permission to touch me. Later I realized that to develop protest one has to accept and give weight to the matter first.
At a much later point I received auditing as a paying pc and then each unnecessary action gave me an immediate present time problem. I knew I was not going up the Bridge, I knew every minute of it would throw me back into earning money for periods. And I knew that that was not the game I had come here for. My protest was against “being forced into a MEST-game” of “making money”. And because there is limited time for a body I felt caught. This became an important step toward my independency.
What I want to say, that ADDITIONAL to all the points of obvious out-tech – plainly suppressive – oneself does have a choice how to deal with it. MEST-work, meant as a punishment and means of degradation can be received as vacation, an ill treatment can be used as a means for growing into increased self-determinism.
Having found out where I was, I could change the operation basis and continue to travel toward OT.
Whether DM is a druggie personality (biochemical) is open to question, as I believe he was using inhalents for his asthma at an early age. Back in the1960s, the standard treatment was with benzedrine, like “Benzedrex” (a brand name) inhalers. Benzedrine is of course an amphetamine drug.
And it is known that use of amphetamines can reduce impulse control and exaggerate violent tendencies in some individuals.
Mareka, thank you thank you for posting your true story!
It seems to me the quote below describes what Miscavige has been doing perfectly:
“The most effective in stopping you, of course – that we know of, is a FALSE Bridge that promises you a way to OT, that is very expensive, and gets you to a state – well – where you can’t ever report how you have
been trapped. But, of course, FIRST they will make you MONEYLESS and in a condition of INDEBTEDNESS.
But then they will get you to the state where you can’t ever report how you have been trapped and it will exist for longer than ever before and you might even become “One with the Physical Universe”.
And, of course, that isn’t saying very much at all, because look at where the Physical Universe is on the Tone Scale! Well, that’s the kind of Game that nobody wins, except the Implanters. So don’t fall for that one.
It’s a Bridge that makes you feel good to be “in debt and out-exchange”, because you are convinced you can soon “Blow” to OT and not have to pay back the money.
You will, of course, also drop the body to “Prove it”.
The proof is: of course I went OT! I didn’t have to pay the money. Anyway, some people are expecting something like that, and they are waiting for it. And what a great way to go!
Ha! Use up all the money, have a good time, and then drop the body and never have to pay it back.
Little bit out-exchange, though.
But they think that doesn’t matter, because “I’m going OT”. Well, eventually we find them on the bridge, you know? They are not OT, they are stuck in the Mest Universe. It’s the worst fate that could happen to a thetan.”
This is excerpted from a 1987 Admin Briefing by Bill Robertson, given 3 years after David Miscavige was Declared an SP by a Comm Ev convened by the OT Committee World Wide ordered by Bill Robertson in an Ethics Order #1, March 13 1984.
Formost, I like to call it the Mecca of Technical Perdition.
a state of final spiritual ruin; loss of the soul; damnation.
the future state of the wicked.
hell ( def. 1 ) .
utter destruction or ruin.
Obsolete . loss.
Also, from the Thesaurus:
Noun 1. perdition – (Christianity) the abode of Satan and the forces of evil; where sinners suffer eternal punishment; “Hurl’d headlong…To bottomless perdition, there to dwell”- John Milton.
Oh Lord, please give Sam sufficient temper so she does not keep it under check and calls the things as she sees it!
Sam, I think you ARE right. Already in her first email were some points that made me somewhat reluctant. The second email supported that feeling.
a) By positioning herself as “being in good standing” and not in contact” anyone in bad standing, Debbie underwrote the concept of disconnection.
b) By (maybe flatteringly) saying “as a Scientologist you are more able, more perceptive and have a higher integrity” she seems to draw a line between “Scientologists” and “other” people. This is a an invalidation and looks like some residual of the “Us and them”-concept, supposedly run at a Level much below OT 7. I have met many, many able, perceptive and integer people, Scientologist or not.
c) She calls for non-existing resources. She asks people to “write reports and bring off-policy to the attention of local org executives and local Sea org members”. If these local powers existed we (these people) would have handled the situation long ago. The ones that attempted any meaningful change have been kicked out or have given up.
d) By creating this illusion of these non-existing resources within the orgs she seems to weaken the independent movement. When I first read her email I thought, “Well, if they still have ONE intelligent member in OSA, this one could have worked out this one?”
e) (This point is personal and might be perceived differently by others) Comparing her email to the writings of Marty, Mike, Steve and the many others, I perceive in them a point of honesty, of affinity, of willingness to confront the own participation in bad actions. I have no perception like that in her email. It is “smooth”.
Sam, thank you for you temper (and your observation).
In 2009 the Qual Sec of an AO that I’d great respect for, as he is a real master of Tech and since eons on that post, gave me a metered interview to find out why I’m not moving up the bridge.
In some minutes he found out that since 1981 I never was correctly handled as a Pre-OT. He really did a great job. Very straight comm-cycle and right indication.
His offer was following:
I should buy an Intensive at that AO, go there and he’ll keep an eye on my auditing and each time I would have a problem with the E.O,, C/S or auditor I should tell him and he would handle it that they are standard and so my case would be handled standardly at the end.
At first glance I thought it to be a great idea, as really having a terminal that finally understands what I’m talking about.
But then I started to think more about it and came to the conclusion that this qual sec didn’t trust any of his staff to be able to deliver standard tech and he had the certainty they don’t know it and what would happen if I’m at the AO and he is on a tour or in the rpf or whatever ?
My vgi’s were gone and I decided to not do this trip as it could end in a catastrophe. I felt really sorry for that qual sec that is a lone wolf in the sea org trying to stick to tech and fighting for blood to be standard.
Instead I went to Marty’s place and Marty I think handled this case matter in a very short time and he was the first auditor since 30 years that really was listening and understanding without interrupting or wanting to do some processes or checking with the meter what I was originating. Just listening, duplicating and understanding.
There was this fine quality in his commcycle, that I never have experienced by another auditor, that he understood while in former auditing they also understood but were thinking for themselves what crazy story he is telling ! I could feel this eval by the cs, auditor and E.O and so evaled myself of being a crazy pc !
And this huge case problem was handled in very short by a standard ” I understand you “.
When did you hear that Last time in COS and it was honestly meant ?
By the way the comments here are a nice rehab of the objectives i did in 1974 !
And it makes perfect sense that in the COS people are redoing their grade chart.
If they check their EPs, who will produce a 3 swing F/N ?
Oh well, never mind. I am common, but I have the magic. DM came upon the scene like a blaze of pyrotechnic flame! Took over the Church at 21! Oh the POWER! Oh the glory, the crowds, the stages, the lights! The movie stars and slaves! The national television, the applause! Just like lighter fluid blazing up on the bar b que. The heat that doesn’t ever cook anything or warm a home. That’s O.K..
I viewed it all from under the bus with no place to fall from. With no rug to be pulled from under my feet. And I am a slow burn. And we are a slow burn. And we have the magic. Cheers my friends.
I´d like to add the most ignored or unknown datum in the context of PTSness.
Tech Volume Auditing Rundowns. Expanded Dianetic series page 317.
…If the PC roller coasters, he is pts OR HE HAS WORN METAL.
Marty did a full post a while back on this particular piece of villainy:
Nothing gets by you Worsel.
No resemblance whatsoever.
A does not equal A
Tom, thanks for the string of great posts on this thread.
Yeah, I am going to post on this subject soon.
In other news, we’re getting our own Mest-fest POB Implant Temple right here in my neck of the woods, Cincinnati. Grand opening February 11.
I wonder how many lives and bank accounts have been ruined by this off-policy, empty, white elephant?
Awwwww! Look at all Debbie’s friends! LOL
Like I said, I’m not completely ready to trust Debbie yet but one thing is patently clear;
She has friends here who will back her up and defend her unconditionally.
If my irritation at her methods did nothing more than prove to her that you are all incredible beings and stand ready to welcome her with open arms and open hearts then I’m more than happy to have triggered a rousing defense.
I do so love you all!!!
😀 😀 😀
“to those impatient for Debbie’s head on a pike”
Added inapplicable falsehood and thinly disguised attempt to 3P
“there happened to be a word of sagely advice, from our laser
Added inapplicable suck-up otherwise known as snapping terminals.
“taken for granted, by some posting here.”
Added inapplicable snide comment not missed by another skilled SCN practitioner of vast experience.
Suggest you quit trying to fuck with me ‘Lill bit of stuff’ you will lose every time.
Thanks, Marty. Then one cannot apply one EP for the other.
Ditto. My personal relations with her as my CO was that she cared very much.
You get my vote for poster of the day. VVWD!
Geeze Valkov, This could be a truth that would blow a lot of charge for a lot of people. But I grew up watching people, knowing people who went under and above the drug scene and from someone who went there and back I have to tell you, a drug does not define you. Scientology stopped short on character scale definitions. Character is something I have had to understand for myself. I have seen people pushed up against a wall and not become someone new or other. I have been the same me, all of this time. David Miscavige did not become who he is because of an inhaler. Or a drug. I watched heroin addicts die before they became dangerous. I’ve seen people become mean without any drugs. The CMO kids on a rampage through the FSO looked more sadistic than gangs on the street of the East Village. A thetan is bigger than the drugs. You have to be submerged in the drug culture before you can figure these things out.
There are mean and selfish people. There are kind people. They get mixed up in the same bag. I was very fortunate to know kind and well meaning people during my own drug adventures. Geeze, Miles Davis was a junkie. He never hurt anyone. David Miscavige is who he is because, he is who he is. It is about character, it is not about the drugs. The day we start believing some smiget of a biology defines us, we are on the same bulletin board as the morticians. People can define Miscavige in many ways, my own take is that he is a hustler. These issues we embrace are actually between him and Hubbard and we are stuck in between. It is not even about us, it is between him and Hubbard. But I am auditing Hubbard. And that is all I can say right now.
There is data in congress lecture series WASHINGTON CONGRESS ON ANTI-RADIATION & CONFRONT—DECEMBER 1956
where LRH gives an idea of how many hours of objectives would be run on a pc. I believe THIS is where cob got his bright idea from in one of his trillion hats he has to wear because he walks on water. I’ve seen pcs take hundreds of hours to complete their objectives and I’ve seen it done in less than 2 intensives – the process has to bite, the change has to run out and the result has to be observed and acknowledged aka audit the pc in front of you aka audit the pc at cause. Refs HCOB QUICKIE OBJECTIVES, HCOB OBJECTIVES NOT BITING, HCOB AUDITORS CODE (tech vols not at my disposal just now or you’d get the full ref details 😉 )
O.K with that Marty, however, the individual you were
dealing with, certainly could be described as A=A ?
Discovered that Boethius did his objectives also.
He said upon completion:
“To rude force the sapling bends,
While the hand its pressure lends;
If the hand its pressure slack,
Straight the supple wood springs back.”
Tom — I wonder if POB will venture out of his bunker of if he will be too worried that there may be reporters there who will try to penetrate his ever-growing cordon of security? It IS an opportunity for some intrepid reporters to get a shot at speaking to the great man. He normally tells all media that he doesnt have time for them, but if he is making the time to fly across the country in a private jet for a “public” appearance surely he could spend a few minutes with the media? Perhaps they could catch him in his hotel. It will be easy to find, just search for the most expensive room in Cinci. Though if he does come he will probably time it so he can fly in in the morning and fly right back in the evening as hotels cannot really provide the level of security needed for someone as important as him. He would need to get right back to his bunker where security measures are fully in place.
In a short time you’re going to be very happy to call her your friend.
Thanks for checking up on this.
Interestingly, you highlight something that has been raised numerous times, but it was not until yesterday when Troubleshooter mentioned something to me that the reality of it really struck home.
POB has created a new “state” or “condition” in Scientology; DISAFFECTED. By definition this is: in covert or overt disagreement with POB (NOT LRH).
When one is declared in the state of DISAFFECTED, the “handling” is DISCONNECTION. It does not require being declared SP. Debbie Cook, as far as I or anyone else in the world knows, has not been “declared SP”, she has been declared “disaffected with POB.”
Yesterday someone had asked here whether the PL “reinstating” disconnection was LRH or not. I told that person to study all the tech as disconnection is not supposed to be a poilitical tool but a handling to help someone free themselves from suppression so they might make case gain. It’s a valid answer. But an even more correct answer is there is absolutely NO LRH policy anywhere, old, new, cancelled or reinstated that calls for “disconnecting” from someone who is “disaffected” — especially someone who is “disaffected” with off-policy activities.
The RCS is afraid to even issue “declares” these days. It’s all by rumor. Jojo Zawawi and the Facebook Police have become the preferred means of publishing “declares”. But today in the RCS “declare” has a different meaning. It’s now a non-published allegation that you no longer agree with the activities of POB and his cult.
Oh, the wonderful world of Radical Scientology lorded over by Pope on a Box.
Interesting. Are you gunning for me Li’ll bit of stuff?
Good. Then clearly your boss considers me a threat.
Bring it! I’ve had your number since your ill-fated attempt to draw me into a fake dinner proposal.
MR: Yes it will be interesting to see if POB still considers it safe to conduct Ideal Org openings in the US. We already know he won’t set foot in most of Europe, more so for fear of legal repercussions in that area of the world. Maybe he should open an Ideal Org in the Cayman Islands. On the subject of Ideal Orgs, I just looked at the list of upcoming ideal orgs on the RCS propaganda site, and noticed that almost no orgs in Europe are listed. It seems that the Ideal Org offensive in Europe is very badly stalled. The only Ideal Orgs in Europe that became one on its own steam (and not by IAS subsidies) is Milano and I guess Malmo (the Buffalo of Europe). Otherwise the few that have opened – London, Berlin, Brussels, Madrid, Rome – are IAS creations. The upcoming EU orgs listed on the website are Hamburg, Copenhagen, Basel and Budapest. Pretty poor showing after more than 8 years of Ideal Org campaign, especially since it was all supposed to have been done by 2010.
I would wager that he’ll be flown in via private jet to the Greater Cincinnati airport that’s just minutes from the new implant factory. From there he’ll be shuttled in his bullet-proof one of a kind popemobile to Shermanspeak to the adoring hired crowd. Then back to Hemet for a Copper Rod session and a couple of swigs of the good stuff. IMHO
Yes, now its ostracism by innuendo. Totally 1.1 band. Nothing to do with any LRH policy, except to violate it. The majority of what LRH had to say about disaffection were in the Rollback advices, and there was nothing in them about Declaring or Disconnecting from “disaffecteds”. In fact there was even a caution to differentiate between disaffection and disagreement. And, the LRH definition of Black PR has also been redefined by POB as “any criticism of POB”, even down to looking at him the wrong way, in his estimation. Sick.
I really believe, from my own experience in doing release rehabs and handling many, many over-runs from Flag, that if the person is in a safe environment and is not PTS and if the auditor and C/S are not evaluating, that the PC does actually remember and does F/N. It’s really a very light action and in my experience goes quite smoothly.
yeh, one of his bright RTC verBaletins.
You mean you were able to not be a victim simply by deciding to NOT be a victim?
How incredibly uncomplicated.
Great points that you bring up regarding leaving. And, as you say, many of these points (or a combination of them) can be the reason for deciding to leave. I blew twice and the first time was akin to a spiritual breakdown for me that I personally never want to replay. I eventually returned, as my purpose was rekindled and I really did want to be on staff.
One of the first things I did upon return was the PTS/SP course which gave me my stable datum regarding leaving. It comes from SOS, Book 1, Chapter 6:
“The cycle by which theta understands MEST is a very simple one. Theta impinges heavily against MEST. This causes a turbulence. But from that confusion theta extracts some tiny law of MEST and withdraws to apply to MEST this newly learned law for the conquest of MEST. No knowledge exists without a primary enturbulation. MEST is conquered by theta’s taking successive laws of MEST and turning MEST against MEST to change it.
Theta, with this mechanism of turbulence, can learn much about MEST. But if theta is going to be embroiled with MEST in a disorderly fashion, then theta must have some means of becoming unenturbulated so as to profit by what it has learned through the confusion. Theta has to be able to withdraw in order to come back for an orderly conquest of MEST, using the laws of the physical universe to conquer the physical universe.”
So having this datum and knowing the three valid therapies; 1) processing, 2) education and 3) change of environment, I was able to leave when it got too entubulating without the spiritual breakdown associated with it. I applied 3) change of environment and when I was ready applied 2) education and one day I may do a little 1) processing. After all, life is a game and every once in awhile you need to step back and come up with a new strategy…that’s what keeps it interesting.
Geeeeeze, Jim…what rabble-rousing poetry ya spew frum time to time:)
So happy to hear you are back with your son. Hugs and kisses to both of you.
At this stage in the game parishioners are getting farther and farther away from LRH and have a lack of understanding who LRH was and why his tech works – they don’t experience LRH tech. Their belief system and understanding of the tech is purely based on DM’s interpretation which then gets passed down to the orgs. He is replacing LRH and putting him in place as source. And lets not to mention the lack of bridge progress over the last 10-15 years because a person’s financial resources are being used for ideal orgs and other campaigns that have nothing to do with personal freedom on the bridge. We have already begun the cycle of a watered down, doctored religion like so many other religions through time have encountered. And yes all of them have their many interpretations from Buddhism to Catholicism. Planet earth just can’t seem to shake that people want their own opinions and they want to go in their own direction.
That sounds like it would be an awesome group process!
LO wrote : “I could feel this eval by the cs, auditor and E.O ”
Yes, this is a bad habit (or a service facsimile) with many auditors. They think “my PC is a druggie / pts type 3 / a degraded being / low toned / a rockslammer / someone with evil intentions” etc.
PC and auditor are quite intimately connected (in a spiritual way) during a session. I have experienced that there is some kind of interaction between them – a big win of the PC will be felt by the auditor, or a hostile thought or even the auditor’s case can hamper the PC.
In the CCH 1-4 episode, I did not even think of being a victim or considered that a possibility. So there was no need to resist it. I was there and just looked. TR-0 in.
In the later episode, while in the pc-chair using up my money at NOTs-rates, getting SecChecked for having written truthful reports, I did feel like a victim.
Then I decided that this is not an acceptable state of affairs and pulled out of it. But basically, you are right, the point was not complicated: was it acceptable or wasn’t it. And in this case it wasn’t.
Thanks for this. I’ve been looking for that quote for weeks now.
It’s actually easy to participate in a blog so close to my heart. This is THE reason I left RCS. In fact I remember speaking to you on the phone a few weeks after my ordeal at Flag. You assured me that Scientology was not supposed to be this way. After that phone call with you the future looked so bright…rights would be wronged….family rescued…Scientology saved… to be used for the masses, not the opulent few!
Great! Looks easier than I thought.
Luckly I did my CCRD before the 90ties, but still something smelled bad. It was done twice and even that is is not a good thing. Sorry for what you went through. I love the expression “Fuck you, Flag, you couldn’t Clear a desk!”. Really well said.
Today DM is making people go round and round the bridge like a group of blind people lost in the fog. You can sense the cap sorrounding the Mecca from miles away, at Hemet is even worse. Just like Milan fog-cap during the summer seen from 5 miles high aeroplane.
Pat, one thing for sure, if the correct condition is not applied one will not get out of the condition one is currently in!
Yes, I hope those spiritually ravaged by Flag will go in session even if just to handle the upset they went through.
In my opinion any decent auditor could clean these cases up. It’s really not that hard. It becomes complicated and over thought in one’s head but really it is simple stuff to sort out – ARC Xs, wrong indications etc
Like the walls Jericho 😉
I remember someone making such reference on this blog.
I agree with all of this! Especially the part about NO HOPE. I remember leaving Flag and just being hollow and after realising how out-tech Flag was then I really did lose all hope…luckily not for long though and then I became Indy All The way! I love the whole resurgence of hope, life and liberty reached through the Independence movement.
P.S: Don’t even get me started on the suicides related to the out-tech. That’s another subject very close to my heart. I lost a favorite family member due to this. Not from Flag though, AOLA. But that’s another story to be told another time.
Prod all you want Samantha, I’m here for the long
haul, you know ? As in “So happy to find the Ol’
Man’s original Scn is still available, outside RC$”
(3) As for ‘dinner’, the wheels sure fell off that one!
(2) Boss? Who made this inference? You? C’mon
Sam, you’ve got a pretty comprehensive dossier
on me, by the sound of it, so…..don’t hold out on
the “real dirt on LBOS” …….Go for it! Spill it!
‘Shakin’ in my boots already! EEEEK! Mommy ?
(1) Gunning for you, Sam? What for ? You are
already far more qualified and expert, than me,
in that department, so just “No Contest!”
BTW, is there any THETA comm. you’d care to
pass on to me? (when this little spat is over?)
You’re welcome. It was a very emotional yet brilliantly happy moment.
To be honest getting me to communicate isn’t the problem….it’s stopping me once I’ve started! 😉
Sam, As I said earlier, you’ve made up your mind
about me,so now its all cast in stone. HAPPY?
Wise man you are, Jim Logan.
When the actions you are being demanded to do are causing more harm than good, it is time to go.
Any of us can handle dev-t on our own lines – we just curse under our breaths and get it done. But when policy become a threat to the survival of others, I personally can not follow those orders.
I think everyone here is the same.
Interesting comment, Dave. I knew someone sent for the training as part of the team of three. The spouse blew up, the house was sold, many belongings were lost. Three children were lost and a dog. It was a long training cycle, held up when all three trainees were not ready to return. Much upset on the org lines and amongst friends/family. Doubt this person was qualified based on the flaps generated but Flag had a trainee.
I loved it too. Treasured memories–even the story of how I wound up down there. Quite humourous. How many people can say they spent the night in the main engine oil bildges (and I still have a souvenir screwdriver I found down there!) or that you practically white gloved the main engine oil tanks and could describe the 10 or so interconnected tanks and how absolutely PITCH BLACK it was in there…or how you could take off your boots and drain out a pint of sweat out of each when you got out, and how you used diesel as a preliminary wash down before a shower. You just can’t beat it. To say nothing of the pleasant respite from all the entheta up on deck. Are you telling me Mike that Dave thought this was an unpleasant experience? Oh, and Scott–mind if I keep the screwdriver?
Looking forward to it!
Depends if you’ve got the balls to take me on using your real identity.
Tell you what why don’t you send me an email on the back-lines and let me know your real identity? That should clear things up shouldn’t it? Don’t worry L’ll bit of stuff, I know a lot of radar-flyers – your secret’s safe with me.
Waiting with baited breath for conclusive evidence that your intentions are honest.
Sam, this is just a thought I had. Maybe she is trying to rally troops. By sending out the email she can figure out who is with her and who is not. Just by the fact that if they were her friends and agreed with her they would not de friend her on facebook, thus she was taking the posts quickly off her site so the osa bots would not see who her friends were. With enough support maybe she could stage a coup d’e’tat. Like I said just a thought I had.
Yes. I got you there.
Also, as you say, the church has gotten just a tad too restrictive and “exclusionist” on many levels. Next thing you know they will be denying people auditing because they are aberrated.
Oops…they already are….
Someone very dear to me told me that Debbie’s email has actually made her want to get back on-lines – which means Flag is the next stop (she is already high OT and has been given a whole bunch of “repair” and “retraining” since the Golden Age of Tech came out). She received Debbie’s email personally, and has known her for many years. WTF kind of reaction is this? On one hand, I think – GO! See how different it is from when you were last there – SEE the out-tech with your own eyes! The other side of me is very concerned for what damage she may receive, which I wouldn’t wish on anybody.
Correction: The Scn. I mentioned has not actually received the “repair” and “retraining” I wrote up. It is what is C/Sed next (I don’t know specifics, but I’d bet it includes some serious Objective hours). Didn’t mean to confuse.
Mike, I think the Church is unwilling to issue declares because they realize they are in legal jeopardy by doing so. During my research on Disconnection, some of which included consulting with a world class lawyer, on that subject, I learned that an SP Declare could easily become the subject of many legal causes of action: defamation of character, libel, slander, etc. The act of labeling someone a Suppressive Person, alone, could be a cause, in that someone going to court could use as evidence the definitions of the Suppressive Person, unless the Church could provide glaring evidence that a person was in fact, truly evil. LRH even wrote policy about collecting evidence at Committees of Evidence as insurance against such legal action. It is my guess, that the attorneys for the Church realize that this practice of “declaring” someone, simply because they have opted out of the Church, is very dangerous legally. There was an incident related here on this blog of someone being told by an ethics terminal they would not be declared if they “kept their mouth shut”. This is an indication that the Church knows they are putting themselves in jeopardy by issuing these declares, which are obviously tools of coercion.
There are also legal ways to fight Disconnection itself. Depending on the exact specifics of the case, there are potential causes of action, that go beyond the boundaries of hiding behind the First Amendment (Disconnection is a religious practice), I used all of this in my letter to David Miscavige and Monique Yingling, when I objected to the Disconnection of my son, while he was a minor child and later, as a young “adult”. I sent copies of this letter, one of which was hand-delivered to the Director of Special Affairs of Austin Organization, and others as well. I made all kinds of legal threats, and even sent evidence that I would use in court. Irrefutable evidence that my son Disconnected from me as a minor child, citing the Church of Scientology policies as his reason. it is a very long story, but the end result is that my son and i are happily reunited, having spent Christmas and New Year’s together!
I have a point to make: after many years of attempting to handle Disconnection, I realized two things. That the Church of Scientology responds to only three things:
1. Legal actions or threats of legal action.
2. Public relations actions or threats of public relations action, meaning “Protest PR”, to the Media
3. Psychosis, or threatened psychosis indicating a situation that could be likened to the Lisa McPherson case.
I used all three to get my son back.
After being reunited, and I was detailing to my son what I had done to handle this situation with us, proud of my accomplishments, my son. said to me:
“Mom, do want to know the real reason I got back in communication with you?”
I said, “Yes, tell me.”
He said, “Mom, I just wanted to be with you. I got tired of people telling me I couldn’t talk to my mother. I realized it was ridiculous. I realized that Ron* would not likely approve of this situation.”
I don’t know the exact words, but Ron* (L. Ron Hubbard) has stated, “Truth in the end, always prevails.”
I would like to add: Love, in the end, always prevails.
Catherine von Ach,
a very happy mother
I am sure DM dislikes the `past-life` clear theory and laughs about it.
He has too much fear of free beings, he would hardly acknowledge that they are beings more able as he himself.
It contradicts with his Mammon therory, too.
And while I am at it, speaking of mind control at FSO: The below dissertation from the book 8-8008 ‘Footnotes”, LRH describes how auditing actually works to clear a person.
“The reduction of the command value of the reactive mind was the goal, not merely the reduction of the reactive mind. When one is addressing the problems of an individual or group of men, the reduction of the command value of the reactive mind is still the goal where Scientology is used as a process to eradicate aberration. But two other methods are available for reducing command value. The first of these is the removal of the analytical mind from proximity of the reactive mind and the increase then of the potential of the analytical mind until it can command and handle any reactive mind with ease. The second is simply the rehabilitation of the analytical mind by permitting it to use its creative ability in the construction of a universe of its own. It was found that there was no purpose in reducing incidents out of the reactive mind beyond the point where the analytical mind could step apart from the reactive mind and then command it.
Dianetics was an evolutionary step, a tool which had use in arriving at a higher-level of knowledge; its use, however, produced slower results and much lower goals. Further, Dianetics processes were limited in that they could not be applied more than a few hundred hours without the reactive mind assuming a very high command value over the analytical mind due to the fact that the reactive mind was being validated continually, in the process, whereas the better process was to validate the analytical mind. “
So at FSO the practice is first, the validation of the reactive mind and the invalidation of the analytical mind by constant sec checking (“what have you done that makes you so crazy??”) and then next is telling a person he is not clear after doing OT III (?????) and the final blow is ordering an OT to Objectives after OT II and OT III (“You are so crazy you can’t even perceive the physical universe”) These are all validations of the reactive mind, but then again they are invalidations of the analytical mind. Because the OT is clear, he has to put his reactive mind right back there again so the objective processing and CC works.
This sets up the being for; PDH PAIN, DRUG, HYPNOSIS. “It is known to some psychiatrists as a means of compelling obedience. … the person is put into a trance and then told things.” (Give me your money!!)
So here is the game, and if you OSA Staff who are reading this have an ounce of theta left you will run to your seniors and demand that they lock up DM:
Beat the FSO public for money until they don’t have any more. Then let them go up the bridge to OT VII. While they are on VII the tech staff are constantly sec checking the OT in the middle of the level and putting him in doubt about being clear and needed more sec checking thus proving to the OT there is something definitely wrong with him. So then the staff tell them that they aren’t making it and put them on objectives. Then they tell him he isn’t really clear and put him on the Solo course. You see how the invalidation of the analytical mind is at play here.
By this time the public person is so beat up and down scale (for his sin of lying to the reg about not having any more money) that he is nearly dead and will propitiate to the cause because his cause is a lost one.
Oracle, I just gotta say this! Your ability to obnose
situations and who’s and why’s, is something I’ve
never experienced before in Scientology. That is, in ONE single package,incl.unsolicited compassion
(1) communicate forthrightly without any arrogance
(2) impart, from the “basement” without any defence
or pretence and are just so REAL as a person.
(3) despite no auditor training, (except for solo) you
are never the less able to easily “grant beingness”
to the person your comm’ing with.
(4) maintain excellent auditor presence (TR’s) especially
your acknowledgements (TR 2)
(5) despite many (justifiable) reasons for criticism of me,
you have never once veered from your Auditor’s Code.
(6) Never once a single invalidation! (at any point!)
(7) Indicated that I take a look at situations, and do my
own evaluations, based on standard LRH detection tech.
…..I could go on and on here…. but you’ve already got all this….duplicated….and understood…….. I just know!
Thank you for being YOU and for being THERE, as well
as Carcha, WW,Califa,SKM, Michael Priv, and GMW
Luv and appreciate your friendship & support. Li’ll bit
Per a comm I received from Debbie, the responses to her email have been, ‘mostly positive’ .
You said…”I should have said that I never saw the value of TRs and Objectives — as a level — *for me*. ”
OK, that narrows the area down nicely. I totally understand.
I tend to operate from the viewpoint that when some process (or ethics handling) is not getting the expected result, it will usually be found that either, it was not the right process for the person at that time, or, it was not being applied correctly. (or the process itself is flawed in some way)
And “shyness”… Oh my God… the service facs that I created, or used, to avoid speaking, even to a small group..
.And GIRLS… I could not utter a simple sentence of my own to any girl…
But, for me, the Comm Course (and I got my first Comm Course (TR’s) back in 1970,) changed all that very quickly. It just happened to be exactly what I needed at the time. I went from being on the Comm Course, to coming in every night after I finished just to help out, to running the course at my local Mission. All in a matter of months. And I had gotten NO auditing or other training up to that point.
It just happened to be “my item” at the time. It is still one of my favorite things, to this day.
This is why it is soooo important to “audit the preclear in front of you”. Robots, or robotic handlings, are antipathetic to getting the job done, and I include here, “blanket CSs.”
Thanks for the comm.
…”Is the 1970 OT 8 identical with the New OT 8 of today?”…
No, not at all.
Everything from from OT IV, to OT VIII inclusive, has changed radically.
I have not done any of the OT levels of either type, but from what I have gathered, although the earlier OT levels are likely still valid accomplishments, that does not mean that the later ones are are not. NOTS, both audited and solo, appears to be a major advancement, when applied per LRH.
Just to add…
Yes… The stuff that I included in my post about the OT VIII from the 1970’s, was a bit of an “added inapplicable”. I just threw it in there because it is the last Grade Chart that I have seen that has any real mention of the abilities lost or gained for OT VIII, as envisioned by LRH.
I am willing to be corrected on this…
I think legal concerns factor into this, though I believe the bigger concern is the potential PR ramifications. POB doesnt like anyone to make fun of him!
Regarding: “I should buy an Intensive at that AO, go there and he’ll keep an eye on my auditing and each time I would have a problem with the E.O,, C/S or auditor I should tell him and he would handle it that they are standard and so my case would be handled standardly at the end.”
There is another out-point: It is his job to look after the quality of the service. Why should you pay in an intensive and receive as a special bonus that he does his regular job? What an offer!
Next could be the MAA offering you to read a report of yours, if you buy a book package. etc. etc.
Beautiful – thanks for this. Inspiring.
Some drugs indeed cause (uncontrolled) exteriorisation and relief.
So drug users often exteriorise from MEST and experience lots of `phenomena` (looking trough objects, prediction of situations and even running on the whole track — that’s right.
There are even cultures (red skins, native Americans) who use different drugs for `spiritual enlightment`.
You made your own observation, it’s true for you.
One thing bad of unhandled drug cases is, that they can `key-in` suddenly if restimulations occure.
The biggest pitfall of drugs is that no one can controll HOW they will effect (restimulate) the case. It’s like russian roulette. There are different drugs with different effects and despite the fact that “all drugs are poison”, any drug has it’s very own effect — plus it depends on the individual how they will (re)stimulate his sensations and his mind.
Thanks for you testimony.
Great. Love it.
Can you provide the source reference, please?
Just yesterday, I was just listening to the tape where LRH talks about the dangers of perfectionism, exactly what you are referring to. It is: SHSBC 6106C12, right around :45 minutes into the lecture.
Such an apt reference it is too; along with such other refs as the definition of “Standard” – “a definite level or degree of quality that is proper and adequate for a specific purpose”.
Thank you for that. Very interesting account. I have had somewhat similar experiences with some auditing. They simply did not seem to apply to my case at the time. On occasion I felt that I was having to “mock up” what the auditor was trying to handle.
I suspect that the biggest difficulty that there is in handling beings, is that it is somewhat difficult, or even impossible, to get a precise idea of where the “PC” is actually at. Thetans can get pretty “mobile” and can change rapidly, when they are in good shape. As soon as you think you have got one “pegged”… poof! he has up and changed.
“The Bridge” in its step-by-step format, seems to be an attempt to lay out all of the possibilities on a gradient. All the steps are at least checked, before the auditor moves on, to see that he doesn’t leave his PC behind somewhere. It is a game of “catch-up”. Perhaps not ideal, but coming in well above the persons awareness and ability, would likely cause more difficulties in the long run.
You mentioned you were from a Tibetan tradition. I remember LRH pointing out that The Tibetan Book of The Dead had similar difficulties. It seems that the Tibetan tradition also has no technology to determine the state of a being after his death. Because of this the whole ritual of instructing the “departed” being on how to handle the various phenomena that he will encounter after death, actually turns into a “trap”, because, although their intention is to help the departed being to “break the cycle of birth and death”, by their very actions they systematically call him back for the next set of instructions,(something that apparently is quite effective) until they actually bring him right back to his next birth.
All for not knowing when the being has actually “exteriorized” from the whole Birth/Death cycle.
It seems that, a valid Grade chart, well trained, competent and vigilant auditors and CSs, and the expert use of the E-meter, is probably our best bet, at this time.
OMG! You hit it dead center.
That blows charge, wow!
Thank you, you just made my day.
A facebook friend of mine posted this on Indie Scientologist last night:
“This is a blatent OSA forgery. Only the most blinkered of staff and public would buy this. They haven’t even tried to mimic Debbie Cook’s writing style.
Working with the Fire Dept? Sweeping streets? Volunteer Ministers who don’t audit but jet around the world at fabulous expense and personal hardship to give a touch assist? And that makes everything alright?
The only reason you’d accept a personally ruined life and a failed case is because you believed there was no alternative. As if you’d rather perish inside your burning house than survive without it.
“…things that Scientologists are involved in…” This is false. It should say “…church members…” because a true Scientologist knows that the only purpose of Scientology is to deliver what is promised, and that was Debbie Cook’s complaint.
Everything else is dev-t.
The COS is a money-making racket, offering just enough truth to snare you, not free you. Judging by performance, Miscavige’s worst nightmare is a wholly free being. Ever seen him congratulate someone for making case gain?
Ever seen him congratulate someone for handing over money?”
Sam, thanks for this latest comm and make no mistake,
clearing things up is just simply the right thing to do.
I will contact you, as requested ARC Li’ll bit
I said: “Some drugs indeed cause (uncontrolled) exteriorisation and relief.”
In no case this phenomena are ‘stable’ and drugs (mostly psychedelical as Mescaline, Peotle, LSD and others) MUST be handled before the PC can fully gain stable wins with processing.
But I understand that Oracle says that many phenomena were real for him as he experienced some of them using drugs.
Mike, i agree. It seemed to me that the PR ramifications were the biggest factor that got a response from “official RCS”. I forgot to mention that of the 3 factors I listed, that was the one that seemed to be the most important! The legal issues seem to be important to the DSA’s who seem to be very interested in preventing court cases. I surmise, it is some sort of “stat” for them to handle a potential suit, and make sure it does not happen. Having a situation that could evolve into a “Lisa McPherson case” threat is more of the same, a potential legal AND PR threat, most important to the Flag Land Base area ethics and justice personnel. But, it is very clear that POB responds the most to threats to his own personal Public Relations, and the declares of people who opt out of the Church makes him look mean and vindictive. Even this is, IMO, a recent new awareness on his part. Hopefully, it will become apparent that the Disconnection policies are just as damaging or potentially more damaging to his personal public relations. Nothing stirs up more charge than not being able to communicate to one’s loved ones! Of this, I know you have personal knowledge that goes beyond mine, having many family members for which Disconnection has caused unpleasant and painful situations.
Debbie Cook’s letter must have been huge blow to POB when it went “mainstream media” as this was a direct assault on his personal public relations. This would have been especially true when Marty became the “go to guy” for comments. For Debbie, whose viewpoint I became exposed to very well, when she tried to help my son with our situation, was probably horrified by this, as it would position her with the Independents, (the “I”s, as she called them), and that was very clearly NOT her desired positioning! Her second letter was probably supposed to handle that. Unfortuanately, it watered down her message and possibly squelched the potential progress she had made. But, the good news is, she did not retract her first letter, and it still is available to be sent to others by the “I”s (Independent Scientologists). It’s reference to LRH poicy is irrefutable evidence to those still “in” that those policies are being violated, and is a valuable resource for any Indie attempting to handle any Scientologist who has been sitting on the fence. As many have related on this blog, it hits the bull’s eye target for getting up the reality of those who know something is wrong, but just couldn’t quite put their finger on what it is.
I love your comments on this blog, and learn a lot from them. Your former position with the Church gives you a very valuable insider’s perspective, and it is wonderful that you are willing to share your insight with us!
Bare with me folks I just needed to get this off my chest. Sometimes you just need to call a spade a spade.
What do Hitler and DM have in common?
Both are EVIL with the hidden intention of destruction.
Both recruit the young to train and mold them in their impression of the NEW way (Hitler Youth/ Young church staff and sea org.) Which creates an army of followers who know no other way.
Both the Hitler youth and the DM youth would and will turn in their parents or friends to the SS, oh excuse me I mean OSA.
Both say they are doing it for the good of all (Hitler for Germany, DM for spritual freedom).
Both use mind control ( Hitler beatings and abuse, DM beatings and Objectives on those he can’t directly beat up. But the intention is the same, control). Not to mention the not end of endless lower bridge actions.
Hitler created the SS and DM has OSA.
Both amassed fortunes and hid it.
Both demanded absolute loyality or pay the penaltly.
People lived in total fear of Hitler and parishoners live in fear of losing their bridge their loved ones and some of them their jobs or companies. So they must tow the line or pay the consequences.Thus all are PTS.
Just an interesting note here Hitler died April 30, Dm was born April 30th different years.
Thanks for letting me spout.
Adding some data to my “Galileo” concept.
And when you look at what “havingness” really is, there is no mention of how much “stuff” one has. Havingness is an ability, and perhaps a “condition” related to that ability. Any compulsion to have OR not have “stuff”, are alike signs of low havingness.
Here are some samples from the definition of “Havingness” from the Dianetics and scientology Technical Dictionary:
1. that which permits the experience of mass and pressure. (9A&L, p,8)
2. the feeling that one owns or possesses. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13)
3. can be simply defined as ARC with the environment. (SH Spec 294, 6308C14)
6. the ability to duplicate that which one perceives, or create a duplication of what one perceives, or to be willing to create a duplication of it. But it’s duplication. (1SHACC-4, 5702C28)
7. the ability to communicate with an is-ness. The ability to conceive of an is-ness and communicate with it. (17ACC-4, 5702C28)
8. “havingness” is the concept of being able to reach or not being prevented from reaching. (SH Spec 126, 6203C29)
BTW, those last two lines regarding Miscavige are the ones in this missive that really indicate to me: “Ever seen him congratulate someone for making case gain? Ever seen him congratulate someone for handing over money?”
The other stuff? Pure speculation.
Debbie will never do services in the COS again unless she submits to the C/S from the bunker.
Before the year is out, we will see her among us, with an independent auditor and perhaps even contemplating opening up an independent center.
That’s my prediction.
What if I do not have a body. Would i still need Objectives?
You have detailed the exact mechanism behind the Black Dianetics and Reverse Scientology that David Miscavige’s church is using against the public.
An impressive and thorough deconstruction of the sinister doings in the RCS.
Oracle, I like you. Thanks for being here. Its appreciated. Regarding conduct, I subscribe to the belief that character is impressed on us and and we carry it along into each life. It predisposes us to actions according to the various events and conditions life brings to us. Drugs do not form character. Character is more integral to the being and part of our destiny.
I laughed at “Barbara Dues”.
Thank you Yvonne. We are both so happy and overjoyed! Every day it just gets better and better! We are both “moving on up a little higher” at an accelerated speed! We are movin’ like greased lightnin’!
Many thanks for your kind words and wonderful postulates that you had for us. You were very key in helping me have the courage to fight the good fight!
Don’t mess with Texas!
Austin Indies Flourish and Prosper in the New Year!
Much love to you and the best in 2012!
Sounds like a plan.
You Mike, you’re a competent person who could already cheerfully confront anything. You’d view something like that as a welcome break from the arduous nature of your normal post. However I saw many others over the years that were overwhelmed by being forced to work in the E/R as a punishment.
Our (the E/R staffer’s) response to someone being “sent to the bilges” was to always treat them gently until they could acclimate. As many breaks as they needed, cool water, electrolytes, food, etc. Invariably, they would blow through the difficulties and get into the work with gusto.
The cycle would become a win for them.
After a while, CMO caught on to this and would sometimes send a security guard or other HCO terminal to monitor the person being punished in the E/R. This type of treatment would often result in the person throwing up, passing out or becoming otherwise incapacitated from heat sickness. At that point, the the person was then removed from the E/R and put back on some post. They did not get a win on it.
Witness Valeska Paris Guider being made to work in the E/R for an extented period until she passed out.
Laughter! Too funny!
Hey, you earned it. Great souvenir.
I can’t tell you how many times I did the same type of stuff – as my post! The diesel wash down in the separator room was always pleasant to me as the diesel was warm and felt good on the skin.
Sam, I know you know this, but it has to be said for Debbie’s sake:
“In good standing” with Darth Midget means “traitor to Ron Hubbard and Scientology”. Period.
Yes, that’s exactly how it is.
Michael A. Hobson
The simplicity of it all.
CO$ is welcome to Oppterm me, but I couldn’t be bothered to return the Flow. I have better Things to apply my Attention and Energies to than some ridiculous Games Condition.
I’ve been running my own little FB check-in and have found no real common denominator of the people who have NOT defriended Debbie … of the random ones that I choose to follow. Just people I knew.
Although I have to say — those that have NOT defriended Debbie have gone up tremendously in my esteem for them. A couple of them I am actually quite amazed –
Kudos to them.
Although I will add that those who have not defriended her are people who have businesses that are NOT 100% tied to the church – who were rather formidable public or staff. Definitely people you wouldn’t really want to mess with 🙂
Haydn, you said: “… needing to get his Advanced Tech Value of Services Delivered statistic way up so he can claim his massive bonuses, Miscavige is also covering his tracks …”
DM strikes me as fairly shameless. I don’t think he’d even bother to try to tie his bonus to any actual results. He is said to constantly berate his cowering staff, telling them he’s the only one who produces any results, so he undoubtedly feels like he should be paid whatever he wants out of the money left in the pile after the bills are paid. Remember, he’s telling people he’s “Mr. Scientology.” Direct connection, 100% correlation. And I’m sure he still thinks he’s underpaid. I don’t think there’s a board of directors with the balls to tell him otherwise.
Thank you, Mareka, for that moving story, a wonderful story because it did turn out all right, but horrifyingly bad before that. Most everyone who is trying to go “up the bridge” in Miscavige’s shoddy substitute for Scientology, unless they are just robotized drones who are below awareness that they are operating on some sort of pretense, must be suffering like you did.
The image of you “butt naked and painted blue” charging with sword in hand, made me laugh like I haven’t laughed in ages.
YOU – are the very definition of incaution.
Scott — THere is something about the crew in the ER that sets them apart (and I will say the Decks Dept was similar) — there was NEVER an affort to “pile on.” People were treated with dignity and respect no matter who they were. Not so in many other places I have been where it is seen as an opportunity to kick the dog when its down if they have someone assigned to their charge to do “MEST work.” Never happened in the E/R. I firmly believe it had something to do with the competence of the ER crew — they all knew they could do their jobs better than anyone else could, they had truly conquered MEST and the ER was their “kingdom.” I made a lot of friends in the ER though I was there as “an SP”. The ER is aworld where competence takes precedence over status.
Thank you Les and Eric for taking the edge off of my li’l rant. I remedied my own havingness and am a calmer now 🙂
I do have evidence of this, Maurizio, but I don’t know it for a fact, that’s why I’m asking two guys who might know better than anyone. Like maybe they’ve heard it being said at some point that a new outer org training program needs to be done at Flag in order to fill up the shop with bodies.
I just watched a 10 hour BBC production on the History of Scotland, then went through tracing the Logan clan through to the Fraser/Logan scrabble and back through the Picts all the way to before there were Monks. I got a little stirred up with all this, and well, who to smack? and there was Dave.
I’ll admit, it’s sort of having to tie both legs, both arms and be pinned down to have a contest, but my havingness on this sort of thing was in need of remedy so there you go.
Thanks Mike. You’re a gem – and I felt the same way about the Engineers. That was my biggest loss when I couldn’t take it anymore and had to choose to leave the Sea Org. The fact that I had let my buddies down. I was no longer there to protect them, to keep them from getting “Musical Chair’d” off post, not getting their enhancement and going up the bridge, not getting rewarded for a job well done…
I loved those guys and would do anything to prevent that working installation from being unmocked. That’s why I would always take on missions and projects myself when CMO wanted to divebomb the E/R for mission personnel.
My buddy Bill Straass told me that after I left, they had the engineers serving in the galleys and standing QM watches and pulled off post for missions and projects on a routine basis – with disastrous consequences.
Can you imagine LRH ever doing something like that?
Having moderated some of the very largest Forums in the World, I can emphatically state that these Post-rating Functions come with a Ton of Liabilities.
First and foremost, they hijack Topical Discussions by focusing Attention on Votes instead of the subject Matter at Hand. Instead of stating one’s Thoughts freely, one often also finds himself unwittingly appealing to Voters.
Secondly, people leave when they get too many negative Votes because one’s Post is not appreciated by a few People (Nothing said, nothing to respond to), pushing the “Group Think” Envelope. Personal Issues can also influence Votes, Hostilities/Protests ALWAYS escalate and Factions develop. Post-Rating is an anonymous One-Way Comm Cycle where one cannot address what another may not agree or disagree with.
Third … Packs of Trolls/Sockpuppets not required to have a minimum 200-500 Character Post Count scatter Discussion Boards.
Most serious/professional Forums/Blogs do not use Post-Rate Features.
now that’s my girl!
Eric, thank you for your answers.
Off-subject side note:
A friend had done the New OT 8 and told me what she had run. She found it to be something somewhat boring and meaningless. When I heard what she had run, I had a two week long cognition, that knocked me into “being relaxed sunshine”. (Just image a Thetan smiling.) So I assume reactions can be different.
Since the original and the New OT 8 are different it seems to be unfair to me to expect the ability of the original OT 8 to appear in someone who has done the New OT 8. (Same goes for OT 4, 5, 6 and 7).
I think that some of the disappointment about later OTs comes from lack of language differentiation. In the Tech Dictionary and other sources people read about “OT abilities” what related to the OT-Levels. But the most of the “OTs” we see nowadays have not done the OT-Levels, don’t even know what they are about, but have done the “New OT-Levels”. I had invalidated myself for such seemingly missing OT ability until I realized that I had not done the OT-Levels, but the “New OT-Levels” (up to 5).
by golly I would love to train with you and Tom M.
you guys are so frikking sane that there could not be more than a couple of dozen like you two in this world or things would be a lot better.
+1000 to you and to Tom M.
Also add enormous Admin Dev’t.
“It seems that, a valid Grade chart, well trained, competent and vigilant auditors and CSs, and the expert use of the E-meter, is probably our best bet, at this time.”
You have my total agreement on that.
On “On occasion I felt that I was having to “mock up” what the auditor was trying to handle.” I would have suggested to check this auditor concerning is he really in communication with the pc, instant reads and the handling of false reads. And then cram anything found.
In my episodes it was not my case being different or special. It was clearly out-tech (auditor assignment policy, process already run, auditor not in communication with the pc and SecCheck in the middle of NOTs targeted on “How come I did find the things out?” (about which I had written reports).
Concerning my tibetan meditation adventures, I found all the answers I had sought there later in Scientology.
That’s what I got, an impression of that moment.
YA, but I like the fire and the fight in you too laddie!
Tears streaming down my face. So well done Mareka!!! I’m so happy for you!! “Flag, you couldn’t Clear a desk!” – Perfect LOL!!!!!
Thank you to Marty, Frankie and Mary and so many others for keeping the route to freedom alive.
Mareka, your family’s story is an inspiration to me. I hope my own family’s story turns out the same.
Objectives have nothing to do with the body. That said, I have not had the pleasure of auditing a unencumbered being on CCH 1-4.
Well, it made her reach, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Better to reach than to be withdrawn in a hole. I wonder what she will tell the next person to asks her for an IAS or Idle Org “donation.” If your friend’s answer is “no, I am using it for my next intensive or [real, non-“The Basics”] course” then the work was done.
Then it is a matter for Flag to deliver 100% standard tech. I wonder what her experience will be?
We need to understand that we have seen and experienced things others may not have seen and experienced yet, and we must allow the “look, don’t listen” strategy to bear its fruit. To the degree that anyone is now looking for themselves is a great thing.
That’ll work for me too.
It’s been a good weekend. I got around 20 divisions of TA on my pcs and this blog got around 30 division of TA on me! All in all it was actually a great weekend! ML Tom
To whom it concerns,
I’ve considered this.
If Debbie acquiesces to RCS, she should steel herself for a new round of implants, courtesy of Pope Tiny Balls, himself.
What a thought!
Torture, within the now fully documented double-wide Hemet Hole, comes to mind, all-the-while delivered to Cook like a Double Cheese Burger out in public.
What a yummy shit sandwich.
Do the right thing.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” Ron Paul
Absolutes are unobtainable. This is Logic 6. This includes perfection, as it is an absolute. We can aspire to perfection, but never achieve it. Period. This is a basic datum of Scientology/Dianetics.
The term “Perfect” can be “really, really good, and the epitome of what we are looking for.” But, it is clear that the literal-minded, not-quite-bright Mr. David Miscavige is going for an absolute, and doing it on all levels.
Another clear reference on this is “Styles of Auditing.” It is very clear that a Class 0 auditor is NOT expected to be a Class IV or VI auditor, but there are gradients to getting there, which leads to another reference for out tech, which is the “Barriers to Study” in which Out Gradient is one of the three barriers. (Another, of course, is lack of mass, which is what the whole “Basics” line-up is all about – but that is another issue).
And, one way to instill MUs is to redefine words to mean something else (like a Floating Needle) and then insisting that the wrong definition is the correct definition. This one is all Davey. Redefine “Policy” to mean what Mr. David and his crew spew out, and now you are “off policy” for disagreeing with it. Redefine “Ideal Org” to be an ornate mausoleum and now you are off policy for disagreeing with this insane strategy.
But – I digress. Absolutes are unobtainable. Period.
Yep, either she gets “COB-enlightened” or she’ll end up over here.
2 Datums I am sure of:
1. DM will never relent the Money Whoring.
2. DM will never voluntarily leave his fictitious Position.
What if you are about to do a “Bunk” and your poor Auditor asks “What about your FLAG Objectives?” what would you do?
You little sneak. (re. the “preview” of OT VIII). Ahhh well, OK go ahead and enjoy your wins. I would wish you no less.
As for…”I had a two week long cognition, that knocked me into “being relaxed sunshine”.(Just image a Thetan smiling.)”… I can sure relate to that.
Here is a poem that I wrote after being totally blown out by my experience with FPRD (from about 1981).
I sat and smiled for miles and miles.
Not just a bit,
but piles and piles.
No limitations set or seen,
I just bold faced sat and beamed!
or how about?
I was released
like a greased pig,
It seems that the basic structure and the mechanics of “case” are pretty similar one person to another, but we each have our own unique reactions to the content and the unraveling.
The CO of Cinci is Rev. Jeanie Sonenfild (Jeanie Franks-Bogvad). One would think there would be hope there. Anyone have news on her viewpoint. Seems like she should be one of us, no?
that is frikking well said!
I agree with you, having worked on her FSO for 2 years I do not claim personal and deep knowledge of her but she has proven over and over that she can keep going toward a survival purpose in spite of tremendous counter intentions and be successful at it. I for one m willing to cut her some slack. and I think we all should. later we’ll judge by the products. otherwise we’ll be inspecting before the fact.
you nailed it George!
and add to that the implanted robotism by overrunin
and overrunning on and on and on.
You’d chop him down with the edge of your hand like a stalk of barley.
Worsel and Sam
Some very good points you each make.
I guess the fact is, that right up to the point where I receive my SP Declare, I am “in good standing” too. The big catch is, that I have no desire at all to be “in good standing” with the current church, and I am totally willing for them to know that. I have publicly told them so.
The reason that I am forwarding Debbie Cook’s e-mail is because I feel that it may penetrate into the ranks of those who are unwilling or unable to see there is a problem. I want to slip this by their defenses, if I can, and get them to maybe consider for a moment that there might be something wrong with what they have assuredly witnessed lately.
It is a bit of a long shot. but I am not done yet either.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying about ‘character’, but neither is ‘character’ the ‘thetan himself’. Your post sounds a little like saying ‘drugs don’t affect a person’; having been ‘biochemical’ myself, I can’t agree with this. When the Purif was first released, it totally indicated to me. And doing it handled what I needed handled.
It’s why I said ‘amphetamines can exaggerate the tendency towards violence in SOME people’. It does depend on what you might be calling their ‘basic character’.
I never said the drug was a sole and basic causative factor of anyone’s violent behavior.
My point is that in the long run, drugs strengthen the reactive mind’s effect on the person by laying or implanting an actual physical restimulator in the body’s tissues. A rather permanent and ever-present restimulative factor, until LRH developed the Purif to get rid of these factors.
If a person is not prone to violence in the first place, amphetamines may not incite him to violence, but may have some other undesirable effect.
In DM’s case, there is only circumstantial evidence; 1. He has suffered from asthma from early childhood; 2. I believe it is confirmed that he required inhalers to relieve asthma attacks; 3. He was apparently suspended from the Academy at St. Hill for striking a pc. He was in his teens and possibly a chronic user of inhalers by that time; 4. He has been described by many people as displaying continued violent behavior, and is rumored to still suffer from asthma.
Today’s asthma medications do not use an amphetamine ingredient, but guess what? One of the principal ingredients used today are corticosteroids, as well as 3-4 other drugs.
And what is a well-known side effect of prolonged use of steroids?
Yes, an increased tendency towards violence because of ‘mood swings’.
The ‘side effects’ and ‘cautions’ for any of these drugs can be Googled for.
I fled to the Marriott as well and this anecdote has relevance~~
Like a fool obeyed a draconian order (under threat of declare)
I was ORDERED to the Flag Land Base some 6 months after leaving the Sea Org. My former CPA Jim Jackson had written a “KNOWLEDGE REPORT” on me. and even though it contained falsehoods ~~~ It cost me $50,000 to defend myself in further mind numbing sec checks. This was coupled with being in lockdown for donations between sessions. It was macabre, it was ghastly, it was a vampire experience.
Anyone had a Charmagne (South African Reg) experience. I hear she single handedly does 1/2 million a week, week after week for Miscavige coffers.
I sat there meek and mild enduring it. Aaaaaaaaah my foolishness ! Adding more and more DEBT to credit cards to PAY THEM to POLICE POLYGRAPH ME ! “Not auditing you” sec checks ! At $1000 an hour !
Because the Sec Checks on me at almost $1000 an hour were NOT producing a whole lot,
The CS FSO “Flag Service Org” decided to fluff my payments and used hours with
another Joberg Sec Check !
My 13th Joberg Sec Check ! !!
So I had to sit there and make my needle float on questions like this:
SAMPLE questions :
Have you ever practiced cannibalism?
Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political reasons?
Have you ever done any illicit diamond buying?
Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?
They wanted me to write a success story on the dog’s breakfast cycle. I refused. A SUCCESS STORY for police polygraphing for 50 hours !
This is *CHURCH* of Scientology attack methods on one its own (at the time)
Yes, another Joberg even THOUGH they damn well knew every square inch of my life with Life histories and Time tracks and OSA files etc etc.
As I refused to write a Success Story, they REFUSED to let me off the base. No success story = confined to the Fort Harrison.
So I BLEW ! I had my own rented car and I fled. I knew they would pursue me at the airport…I knew the Blow drill. So I checked into the Mariott at Tampa and stayed their a couple of days before grabbing a flight back to Los Angeles. My power was starting to return.
I came home and shredded my “CERTS” . I had this fabulous shredder I named JAWS. I shredded a lot of stuff. Symbolically that was helpful.
But I like to look at the brighter side. The glass 1/2 full. My 2 enforced trips to Flag were draconian and I got wise to the mechanics of Flag and how dark and vampire like it was becoming way ahead of the Internet reports.
I never returned.
one of those who see,
Jeanie is kool-aide all the way.
It’s sorry and disgusting. I held a lot of hopes for her to gender some “reforms”.
Then again, I understand the Psychotic Dwarf did his ‘number’ on her.
The rest is sorry history………..
Man you scientologists spend so much time discussing “data”. You Scientologists worship your minds. You know that mind can be a false god don’t you, just like a golden calf.
That is my biggest issue with LRH and your religion or philosophy or whatever it is. Hubbard created something so complicated and intellectually based that you guys are unable to connect with the needs of the world at large, only with just a small subset of people with $$ and insecurities.
Hope I am not being mean, just observing you you guys operate, and why I am glad I am not one of you.
Next thing you know they will be denying people auditing because they are aberrated.”
man you cracked me up!
Oh my gosh!!! Karen, that is so terrible. I am truly horrified! My jaw has dropped and I can’t actually close my mouth. Oh my goodness, oh my goodness. This actually sickens and shocks me.
Well done on refusing to write a success story! Well done on blowing to the Marriott and regaining your power. You have more guts than most.
While I flew to Texas to be with my family, my then 2d remained at Flag. He wanted to leave with me (he was so devastated that I was being kicked out – he even burst into tears when I told him the horrifying news.) but I convinced him to stay and finish his Ls. I didn’t want what happened to me to stop his bridge progress. So he began L10…..two months later he was still on it!!! Every day for two months (several times a day) he would call me and tell me how depressed he was. He told me he hated being there. The sessions were ‘okay’. One time he seemed blown out and happy and on several occasions he seemed indifferent. For the remaining two months he was depressed!!! He even managed to escape twice. One time a tech page was chasing him through down town Clearwater. The only thing keeping him there was that he did not have C/S okay to leave and he believed that something horrible would happen to his case if he left.
Here’s to hoping he doesn’t get put through the 130 hour Objectives!!! God forbid the C/S to ‘okay’ that case action!
Oh well….never mind then.
one of those who see,
I’m sorry that I do not know your story or that of your family’s but I truly hope your family’s story turns out happily!!
All my love. x
Your humble servant,
You’re welcome. And I def agree with you. The people having the most problems in the CRS are those that can think for themselves and communicate their thoughts. The robotized drones get on perfectly okay and in some cases seem to even do quite well!
If every person that was ever unjustly wronged by the Church of Scientology sued them and was awarded damages, my thought is that the church would be broke and would have no choice but to deliver real Dianetics and Scientology to people in order to recover financially. 🙂 Food for thought, while you’re posting about stuff. 🙂
Scott, you obviously haven’t heard the rumours about me 😉
I jest….I jest….I’m just extremely English about taking a direct compliment.
‘winning formula’ Like!
You took the right road! 🙂
Lucky you! Thank you for understanding.
And a personal thanks Tom for getting that TA action on your pcs. It’s most appreciated. 🙂
Appears mental. 🙂
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” Ron Paul
I love this quote.
why is it that anyone that make any sense is named Ron?
Thanks for the update, Tom. It’s a bummer for now. Hopefully, with everything going on including Debbie’s email, she will come around.
Well, you may have a point . I am not expert on these drugs . I never inhaled asthma medications. But I would assume it is out of the body within a few days. I didn’t mean to imply that drugs do not effect people. I know they do. Particularly when combined with pain. I just mean to say people have a character that is senior to these influences, not to mention the fact that the poison leaves the body. I’ve had friends with asthma that were not cruel and abusive. I think the guy’s biggest problems extend into other areas. I would ask myself, if this guy got through a drug rundown then, and a purif, would he be alright? Here is a report of DM coming into power and just how he used it. Ask yourself, is there any drug you could take that would make you act like this? You know Hubbard did not know what these kids were up to. This is street style …….. Jesus, maybe he watched too many gangster films as a kid! Maybe it was T.V.! …..just teasing you… Not caliming you don’t have a good point. Just admitting I don’t know about those drugs.
No, I don’t think you are mean.
I understand your concerns.
Scientology has many uses and it may seem complicated.
But it is not – frankly, if you just get the basic principles of Scientology all the complexity disappears.
It’s correct, “the mind can be a false god, like a golden calf”, but this is not what Scientology is about.
You can gain understanding of the mind using Scientology/Dianetics, but you shouldn’t adore it — just get rid of it. 😉
There is a lot of data written by Hubbard, that’s right.
But the amount of data shouldn’t scare you. If you want to know more and become an expert, you can study as much as you want in order to deepen your knowledge and increase your expertise.
But you don’t need to.
Live your life. Believe what you like. Scientology philosophy does not want to change your beliefs. If you think so, you never experienced Scientology at all.
Reading a blog is not equal to `using Scientology`.
Use some Scientology and we talk again.
Or don’t use it at all. It’s up to you. I understand that all this data `out there in the internet` can be overwhelming or wired to someone without basic understanding of the subject. It’s the same for me if I try to read something on a blog which is dedicated to rocket since or violin players.
We try here to exchange experiences due to a situation which is of interest for us, Scientologists (mostly). If you are here in order to understand Scientology or its fundamentals, this is the wrong place.
L. Ron Hubbard – the founder of the Church of Scientology. This is pretty widely known. But what is fading into the background between all the polemic about whether Scientology is good or bad is the fact that in these modern, civilized times a new religion was founded.
Instinctively we would say that religions are artefacts of the past and do not really belong in our times. The fact that in the 20th Century a new religion was founded should make us suspicious, even interested – how come?
The facts are that L. Ron Hubbard put up a new religion within 25 years. His active period was from 1950 to 1975, after which he was no longer doing research and was no more the “owner” or “leader” of the Church of Scientology anymore.
From all the independent reports we have today we have to assume that after 1975 he was withdrawing from the church and certainly – for whatever reasons – was hiding both in general and from the church and had almost no contact with it. His wife was complaining about it, and she was to the end of her life in the church. It is believed that they have not lived together since around the late 1970s. It is also doubtful if he died at the time which was officially announced. You can find very contradictory data about that.
But to set up a world-embracing church within 25 years, having members numbering several hundred thousands, and being known by a high percentage of people especially in the Western World is an outstanding result! Scientology is not just a flash in the pan. Scientology in its roots is not a commercial company and it does not sell goods known to man. It is not comparable to Microsoft or an Oil company. There are endless accusations that Scientology is a heavy commercial institution – there is no intention to justify the actions of the Church of Scientology.
I have been member in it myself and I have seen things I cannot call “civilized”. For some actions I do not even have words. For some it is bizarre that you can take money for a religious service. However, that is a very normal action. Priests from all kind of churches earn a salary and often are not badly paid at all. In other words, the fact that Hubbard made sure that his ministers are paid only shows his far-sightedness and sanity. How can a church survive if the members don’t?
Unfortunately I never met Hubbard personally. From unbiased reports, he must have been a warm, understanding being. He was certainly a genius and had an extraordinarily high output. He had a very high ability to communicate himself by spoken as well as by written words. When I listen to his lectures I wonder again and again about his conceptual understanding, how he was able to explain what he wanted to teach you, with facts and humour, with emotions and intention. He was very vivid. He had an understanding which was way ahead of his time.
He was also demanding and delegating. His attitude was: you are able, and you can do it. He didn’t accept justifications and excuses. The more time passed, the more that side in him became prevalent, even dominant. Especially in his later years, I guess, it was hard to live with him. But this is just how he was, a human being. We should never forget that. He was a man in flesh and blood, he had been married three times, and had seven children. He had his own character, he even smoked as did many people in his day. He was a genius, but fully human. He was not a god who founded a church. And he was not an ambassador of God. He did not even claim that he invented everything that you find in Scientology. He took every good idea available and put them together as a synthesis – and based on all that he started to find techniques specifying how man can be improved.
And this is what makes Scientology that much different to other religions: It has a very large number of techniques detailing how man can be improved. Most of them are surprisingly simple, and can be applied by a newcomer easily. Some of them demand high skills. The profit can be that one feels better, that you recover (and more easily) from past events which were affecting one’s health and sanity. And the profit very often is an improvement of awareness. It leads to spiritual freedom.
There are huge controversies about Hubbard. However, I dare to say he was a great friend to mankind. He gave to us, to Man, a philosophy you can apply directly in life. You can read it and apply it instantly and it increases the viability and quality of your life. Hubbard had a big goal – actually almost an unrealistic goal – but nevertheless needed and wanted very much, more than ever: a civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war (Footnote 1).
Throughout his work you can recognize that aim again and again. All his teaching had this in common. Let me confirm that his intention was to create a world without war, criminality and insanity. The short term for that is what he called “a Clear Planet”. And this is what a high percentage of the population are going for, working for, living for. Not only in Scientology, but it is a goal sometimes people are willing to give their lives for and quite often are willing to give all their possessions for.
Unfortunately this is sometimes misused, heartbreakingly, in the Church of Scientology. Hubbard founded a church, not only because it gives Scientology protection and longevity, but because Scientology is a religion, undoubtedly. From all his teachings it is very obvious that he invented Scientology for every woman and every man. He didn’t intend a monopoly on it, he was never restrictive, he made it available to everyone, he considered his work free (Footnote 2).
In what other way can you clear a planet if not to include every human being and distribute it to them? L. Ron Hubbard Clearing Procedure, 1957: “I’ll not always be here on guard. The stars twinkle in the Milky Way and the wind sighs for songs across the empty fields of a planet a Galaxy away. “You won’t always be here. “But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons – ‘The work was free. Keep it so.’”
Let me end this article with Hubbard’s words, taken from “My Philosophy”, 1965: “All we know of science or of religion comes from philosophy. It lies behind and above all other knowledge we have or use. “For long regarded as a subject reserved for halls of learning and the intellectual, the subject, to a remarkable degree, has been denied the man in the street. “Surrounded by protective coatings of impenetrable scholarliness, philosophy has been reserved to the privileged few. “The first principle of my own philosophy is that wisdom is meant for anyone who wishes to reach for it. It is the servant of the commoner and king alike and should never be regarded with awe.”
With the highest respect,
1) A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where Man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology.” LRH, Aims of Scientology, September 1965.
2) It comments poorly on Man’s dullness that this project was impeded and slowed greatly by lack of funds and by very active efforts on the part of some to acquire and own the copyrights of Dianetics.” Book: History of Man.
“Dianetics is not in any way covered by legislation anywhere, for no law can prevent one man sitting down and telling another man his troubles, and if anyone wants a monopoly on Dianetics, be assured that he wants it for reasons which have to do not with Dianetics but with profit.” Book: Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Heath.
“In 1952 he [L. Ron Hubbard] changed the science back to its original name SCIENTOLOGY. This was done to inhibit its being monopolized for private purposes.” Journal of Scientology, Issue 28-G
“Although various materials of Dianetics and Scientology have occasionally been tendered to official and private agencies, any effort on the part of these to monopolize or to classify under security headings this data, would not only have been resisted, it would have been defeated. Because Dianetics and Scientology and the existing organizations have been financed in this fashion, Dianetics and Scientology are free, and will not be used in the direction of some George Orwellian nightmare.” PAB 53, 27 May 55
“Furthermore, it would be dangerous for the materials of Scientology to be monopolized in one area. A Doctor of Scientology, holding the materials of Scientology for the training of persons up to certified level, may occasionally find it embarrassing to discover that one student or another has already examined all the materials. But it will not be embarrassing to that Doctor of Scientology the moment he starts to actually train such a person into the uses of Scientology. For people have to be trained into Scientology.” Ability Major 1, March 1955
DM is a cross between Hitler and Bernie Madoff.
Me too! with (unbull) – baited breath! (joke!) Marty!
🙂 🙂 🙂
I am so happy for your happy ending. Well done to you and your son and thanks for the valuable insights!
It contains gradients of looking. I distributed it, too.
I am disappointed in Debbie’s 2nd communication. She spelled it out so clearly in her first comm.
Debbie’s letter to the Times did not upset me. After all, the Times (and the Village Voice, and GMA, and the media in general, not to mention Anonymous and other critics of Scientology) is not really in favor of Scientology as a subject. So, why not tell the media to pound sand and stay out of it, while Debbie’s letter continues to resonate internally? It is, in my opinion, more effective that way.
My take on the letter is that she is differentiating David Miscavige and those that follow him and his erroneous advice from Scientologists – dedicated staff members and public who do indeed audit, volunteer, etc.. There is no doubt that most staff are truly dedicated SOBs – like many of those who are here reading on this blog.
I don’t know Debbie. I am pissed that DM and crew immediately threw her away. She is not an idiot. She has to know she was chucked under the bus. She may end up like George Smith and love Big Brother, but you guys here tell me she didn’t crack in the hole, and I am sure she won’t crack here.
Meantime, thousands of Scientologists in “good standing” are seeing a strong and well-respected woman and Scientologist being pilloried for quoting LRH and committing NO high crimes. That is a huge vector to get Mr. David Miscavige the hell out.
I have my opinions about how it will come out, but I respect her decision and her choice.
Sorry but that was an absurd statement you made that I have to call you on as a christian.
I know of no christian that I have ever met who “prefers their pastor to Jesus”.
I have never been a scientologist, and I don’t pretend to know what its like to be one, I think you might consider behaving likewise, and ponder a little more before tossing around glib christian analogies.
Easy on the holocaust analogies.
Since leaving in 2006, most friends I engage in discussion on Scientology technology goes smoothly and most of the time they reach for it. I have so many LRH books out on loan right now I can’t keep track, and the common thread through all of this is that EVERY person knows I do not support the Church of Scientology run by David Miscavige. It seems some people just “get” that there have been greedy power thirsty sociopaths behind many religions demise in the past, and when I point to the fundamentals of the philosophy, and draw the distinction between that and RCS, they instantly ask how they can get more info. Withdrawing my membership from the Church of Scientology has made it easier for me to talk about the subject to new people as I don’t have to defend the insanity that is the Church anymore. A bit off topic here , but related to what Hayden wrote earlier. For me, there has never been a better time to practice actual Scientology.
You’re not being mean, just uneducated in the subject. If you really took some time to read a book you would find it rather simple,There would be some unfamiliar words you would have to understand, but that would true for any new subject you decided to study — for example auto mechanics or geometry. Even if you were to get a job at MacDonalds
Scientology Is one way to understand how life operates, and how to function more rationally in life. You’d have to study it a bit.
Phrases like “you Scientologists…” and “you guys…” and that “Scientologists worship their minds” indicates that you know nothing about the subject and that your post is a generalized misconception.
So the next time you post about Scientology get a little understanding of it. Who knows, it might even help you.
Nice post Lynne. I took that part of the e-mail as a sales pitch intended to address those individuals who had already been drained of funds. To prove they needed this action and for the regs to use as a reference when they ran into someone hedging on it (the “I don’t know” part).
Interesting Adam. There are more than a few Scientologists I certainly don’t agree with on a lot of issues. Which “you Scientologists” are you referring to?
Also, since you used the term, what is your definition of ‘the mind’ – you do have one… don’t you?
Your Post is laden with one Fallacy after another and is not based on “observing” anything at all … you came here with preconceived Notions which is all your Post amounts to.
Yes. We should talk more about golden calves and such. By the way, where is that golden calf right now?
I read most of the responses here to Marty’s post. Boy that 130 hours of Objectives is not a good scene. I did mine in the early 70’s and then did Objective ARC when NED was first released and it was the best session I ever had. Just a single session with EP. And it was done by a student auditor.
Good on you for observing. You may very well be right, there is a lot of attention on the mind.
You’ve mentioned the needs of the world, and it’s nice to see you with your attention on the broader sphere of life.
I can’t agree with the subset though. Would you agree that every single living being has a mind? If so, then it may make more sense why the subject addresses such a thing: if everybody’s got one, in one shape or another, then we’ve got our hands on THE thing that can make all sorts of other things happen.
It was an ancient philosopher that suggested that man should know himself and the truth would set him free.
Anyway, thanks for piping up Adam.
I haven’t received my declare yet…
So I guess technically I’m in good standing too 😀
OK we gotta get a ‘like’ button because wordpress won’t let me post the same ‘like’ comment twice! 😀
Eric, just read your post and guess what ?
I have posted most of this earlier, but I too did the Comm
Course in 1970, was blown away and like you, couldn’t
get enough of the place.The wins from that single Comm
Course were exponential in making Real Scientologists
pure and simple!
The eventual Reformation “Orgs” could just explode in
growth, just like the old days from just that single little “course” applied in it’s original introductory format!
That this was a CORRECT item, was indicated by an all
out attack on this very suggestion, made by me,to what I now know as DMbots,during my attendance of some Org ‘invitation’ to ‘reunite inactive Scientologists again!’
Needless to say, I have never been to any further
Renenemus Comm Courseus !! Thanks Li’ll bit
I did have another look at her letter. And there is an interesting line: „LRH says about this process in PAB 47 ……Resistance is the one step necessary to entrapment.“ Yes, that is true and this applied works also to get out of entrapment. I had been on training in AOSH EU. After a while had to retrain starting from Student Hat all way up again. Shure I did resist like mad but had to follow that order. Charge piled up and I had seen no way out. Then after a while looking at the impossibility to handle that situation I did fully agree with what I had been ordered. Suddenly all that charge I had been sitting in blew. One hour later had to visit the Ethics Officer. Had been found out to be „no case gain“ and sent home with a Supressive Person declare in my pocket. But I had been out of that trap. So, one building block of the trap Corporate Scientology is to make you resist. I had been ordered on Objectives. First I did resist as I did not agree with that order. Then in the first session I fully fell into apathy (my decision to do that) . As fully as I could. Apathy = no resistance at all. Session stopped after I guess 30 minutes and no more Objectives. This one line applied works like mad.
Choosing a side and taking up a position against a common enemy does not = a games condition where a person is knowingly pan-determined about wanting all players in the game to survive.
Price of Freedom: Constant alertness, constant willingness to fight back.
Liability Formula: 1) Decide who are one’s friends 2) Deliver an effective blow to the enemy of the group one has been pretending to be part of despite personal danger.
Code of a Scientologist: 5)To decry and do all I can to abolish any and all abuses against life and Mankind.
A Games Condition by definition involves can’t have on opponents and I don’t believe anyone on this side of the fence has that as a goal (the same cannot be said for RCS)
There’s nothing wrong with being part of a group who’s common goal is to fight a known enemy to that group’s goals and purposes as long as you can maintain a pan-determined position while doing so. And yes. We are all Scientologists and that IS a pan-determined viewpoint.
I always have and always will consider her a friend 🙂
Ohhh! You’re SO mean!
I’m wounded to the core!
LOL. It’s OK. We can take it. Thanks for voicing your opinion but if you don’t stop being mean we’re all going to disconnect from you. 😛
She’s smart enough to know she’s crossed the line.
LOL – That one should be added to the pre-clear origination sheet!
……and why I am glad I am not one of you.
Then what are you doing here?
Hi Adam, I am understand your view point and respect your opinion. I think you should just continuo observing that’s all.
Adam, Actually he took something so complicated that philosophers since the beginning of time have dedicated their lives to understanding it–that thing we call Life. And he made it simple. And he made it so that ordinary people could understand it and so improve it.
If you took even just a little time to find out what it is, you would realize the comedy that the concept of “mind worship” evokes.
Probably the common denominator of all those who contribute to this blog is the protest at the current Church’s self-appointed dictator’s Svengali-like twistings of the simple basic truth’s into something complicated and unworkable.
The basic subject, original writings and material are pure and include the entire chronological research and development of the subject–over 50 years of research unfunded by any government, corporation or any other vested interest.
Miscavige insidiously but very cleverly over 20 years altered those materials through “re-releases” (edits, deletions, alterations, ad infinitum).
But even this is something the people in this blog understand, for even this phenomenon is something LRH talked about and warned against as long ago as the 1950s.
Why and to what end? That too the people on this blog understand, because these people never lost the basic truths or the ability to apply them to understand live and improve conditions. So they carry on in what is now called the “Independent” movement–or like it used to be in the Church before Miscavige took over and slowly started dismantling it.
It’s fine to understand all this and you might ask, “why not use all this wisdom to get rid of him?”. Number 1: At the time, lot’s of insiders knew Hitler was a bad guy too. Getting rid of him–not so easy. Number 2: The people on this blog are “using it” (Scientology) and as a result, Miscavige too will come to pass. Much sooner than would have happened otherwise.
That’s why the snipes were my peeps during drills through all my tech training.
New poster Adam?
I do prefer somewhat of an introduction before taking onboard unsolicited ‘advice’
You’ve got a lot to say for yourself considering you claim to be ‘glad you’re not one of us’ in your later post.
By the way the use of the word ‘glib’ doesn’t gibe with your assertion that you have never been a Scientologist.
Mike, Does this mean that once separated from POB that one is ‘disinfected’?
I do apologize for the “you scientologists” comments. That did come off as a little crude. Please realize that I am trying to understand how scientologists operate. Part of the blame in all truthfulness lies with LRH and scientology, in that it has been so secretive and thin skinned in years past that the outside world is just now getting a handle on it.
However, although I am not nor have I ever been a scientologist, I have done a lot of deep research on it, and consider myself well versed on the topic, and do consider myself qualifyed to comment on many issues.
captain bob — Good try at an article, but it definitely needs some fine tuning. Until supposed facts are verified (and edited), the article should be taken very lightly and not as the gospel truth. Rachel
Not true formost. I came to Marty’s site knowing little about scientology, and just trying to get a peak into a new world. I did not come with pre- conceived notions, I am just stating my observations from reading the blogs for a long time.
Your welcome to your own opinion, but please don’t assume to know where I am coming from.
Please clarify, as I don’t understand your comment
I consider your response as the best of all those that have responded to my comment. I appreciate that you validated some of my points. Thanks.
By the way, it was Jesus Christ who said “you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free” (John 8) And by the truth He meant knowing Him and His words.
Grow your mind, train your mind, but don’t obsess over it. Dont forget your heart and your spirit, and soul.
Hilarious!! A scientologist with a sense of humor!! Thank you Sam.
Just wanting to learn more about Scientology. I grew up with older sisters who were scientologists in the 80’s, and the topic has been a mystery til recent years. So thanks to Marty’s blog, and other sources, I have gotten a peak into a world that has fascinated/scared me since childhood. Thank you for asking.
Lots of good data. Too much to respond to all. Appreciate your realistic assessment of LRH, flaws and all. He obviously was a genious, but God he was not.
A lot of his ideas must have been good, as many people have claimed benefits. Just not sure he was accurate in calling his claims “science”.
Mike, Oh, yeah, I think he may come if nothing else than to check on Jeannie Sonenfeid, who he has kept on Solo NOTs for more than 20 years, going to Flag twice yearly so he can get her sec checked to find out what she has been up to. At one time Jeannie was a powerhouse (and may still be for all I know) who was capable of thinking her own thoughts which DM finds threatening in anyone. I have heard she has some physical issues, but who wouldn’t after what she has been through.
O.S., the real lesson one learns on the SHSBC is the one LRH states over and over in the lectures: “Auditing is what you can get away with.”
Of course, in the first Class VIII lectures he says, “Auditing is NOT what you can get away with,” but Class VIII is another level of auditing. Class IV is mechanics (i.e. duplication) and being able to do specific technical actions, Class VI is Understanding of the full scope and breadth of the subject and Class VIII is the Judgment to know which exact tool to apply at the appropriate time. There are three distinct levels of skill. Obviously, you have to duplicate before you can understand and you have to understand before you can exercise judgment.
And POB has them all mashed into one, A = A style, and on top of that everything must be perfect beyond all necessity for workability, which is how LRH described Scientology (“a workable system”). DM’s approach is a good way to stop everything and he is succeeding. But won’t forever.
Actually your a prophet Christian. From all feathers that I have stirred I decided to back off on commenting and go back to reading the comments only, since I am not part of the club.
But don’t hold me to that promise.
By the way, it was Jesus Christ who said “you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free” (John 8) And by the truth He meant knowing Him and His words.
Many philosophers before Christ made resembling statements.
Jesus, however, didn’t mean that his words will set men free, but the truth behind those words. He was not a witch with some special words to recite and go free because they are “so true”. He was not a friend of “believe and go free”. He was more kind of “follow my finger and look for yourself (and if you see it, you will see the truth for yourself and it will set you free). There are many sentences in the bible that go like “believe…” but there are things lost in translation, too.
The truth can’t be communicated directly.
Knowledge is not equal with truth. Faith is not equal to truth.
You said: “However, although I am not nor have I ever been a scientologist, I have done a lot of deep research on it, and consider myself well versed on the topic, and do consider myself qualifyed to comment on many issues.”
I suggest to read some basic Scientology Books, the real stuff LRH wrote. Fundamentals of Thought, DN55! and some more.
Read it, and USE it. Look for yourself.
No belief system (including “Scientology Religion”) will set you free.
It’s up to you.
Wisdom is spread through ages and the entire world. No one goes free by just listening to wisdom. You need to look trough it for yourself.
“Dont forget your heart and your spirit, and soul.”
Thank you for this sincere advice.
I hope your sisters are allright and you still have contact with them.
In fact that’s a very easy concept:
Take a car that hasn’t been cleaned for 1 or 2 years and try to clean it to 100% perfection. This is a never ending cycle as more you look at all details more you’ll find imperfections. The imperfections you’ll find become minor and minor, but it will never stop…you always will find a little scratch or dust somewhere ! At a certain point you have to stop and decide that’s the product ! You can experience the same when painting a room and wanting to have it 100% ! Try it.
That’s exactly what the COS is doing wanting to be perfect and so they forget about what they wanted to achieve in the first place and are
then involved in 1000ds of unneccesary details for eternity!!!!!!!!!
As that goal is unreachable (perhaps not in art) as this universe is running with time and time is defined by change. As soon you have something 100% time has already chagend it and it’s no more what ist was 1 second before this moment.
I’ve never seen a 100% perfect auditor, neither Lrh.
Another thing is that perfectionnism as an OCA trait is looked upon as a bad thing. Very low on critical and very high on reliability as far as I can remember. This means that a perfectionnist is continously invalidating his environment (as not meeting his dreamt up standards)and so has constants O/Ws towards his environment (see DM).
A perfectionnist with high affinity to his environment will have more understanding for the not too perfects and will help them to become better !
The false Assumptions are all yours:
– There is no mind-worshipping.
– It’s not complicated.
– Scientology is about connecting with the World.
Sorry SKM, not “him” but “her”
Yes, WindWalker, they wouldn’t want any ‘sinners’ in their ‘church’……..
Wow!… And you certainly seem to be right in their face.
Holy sh-t… Looks like I am going to have to turn up the heat big time to get noticed. It is quite amazing to realize that the church of David Miscavige’s Scientology is actually acting PTS to US. The whole fu–ing church, DM, OSA, and the lot, is afraid to even take us on one at a time.
“Some people go to great depths, only to blow tiny bubbles!”
Respectfully disagree with your statement “no belief system can set you free, its up to you”.
Is there such thing as absolute truth? If there is, then you need to tap into it, not your own opinion of truth, or what you want to be true.
If truth sets you free, and there is such a thing as absolute truth, then that is what you need to follow, regardless to be set free.
Can you see that its not “up to you” if truth is absolute.
Hope this helped.
I re-did my grades in 2010, and it was the best thing I’ve done so far. It made me realize how screwed up I left some of the processes in the RCS (I was left mid-grade II, for example).
The comm course definitely helped me, but it was still very forced. It was all I could get out of it at that point in time with that process, though. That’s not *why* I got into the church, though. I wanted to be a better student, and I saw the comm course as off-purpose at that point in time, but I was essentially forced to do it first. I can’t remember if I ever did finish my student hat, believe it or not, but course after course kept getting shoved in front of the student hat.
It’s funny — people who know me now find it difficult to believe how painfully shy I used to be. I was SO HAPPY to work in an office without a lot of interaction with other people. You know what? That’s still true, but these days, I leave the door open. (So, you know, remote controlled sharks can fly by. Really. Just happened.)
I have come to the conclusion that re-doing a process can be, for at least some people, like peeling an onion. You’ve finally gotten to that bit of case that wasn’t able to be handled before. So I could see that some people might benefit from re-doing a process, say TRs & Objectives, later on. I just don’t think it’s a great idea as a blanket C/S.
You kind of missed my point. Its the overall mindset that I hear when reading these postings over time that concerns me. I am talking more about the overall forest than the individual trees. And I think I know why.
When one trusts in The Lord, all the garbage of the day to day striving becomes less important, and our focus becomes communing with Our Lord in the spirit, a beautiful, refreshing thing. Edifying yourself and then others.
There is a wonderful quote in the bible, Love edifies, knowledge puffs us up.
Sharing data and data and more data til one is overloaded with data doesnt accomplish as much as you think. Agape love flowing around is actually much more powerful for moving mountains in people’s lives.
And from reading these posts there are a lot of mountains that need moving.
We overcome evil with good, not with more evil. You really want to know the secret of taking down this DM guy? Love him and pray for him to come to his senses. Sounds crazy, but see if it doesnt work. (Love your enemies, pray for them, do good to them that hate you)
Love and Peace,
I noticed he didn’t answer my question.
I’m sure after only reading Marty’s blog one can assume to ‘know’ what Scientology is and what LRH is all about. Same as a 16 year old after getting their drivers licence – off to the Formula One track for fame & fortune.
I suggest Adam read one of LRH’s books, Fundamentals of Thought maybe. Then he can come back and tell us Scientologists whether we need a debriefing or not.
“(Love your enemies, pray for them, do good to them that hate you)”
Adam, you are absolutely right. This in my opinion has been missing among some Scientologists for many years, and we could all stand to take it to heart and apply it. Not so much when I first started studying the subject in the 1970’s; it was a different time. But a spirit of vindictiveness, and de-personalization and annihilation of one’s “enemies” seemed to take root at some point, perhaps with Miscavige’s leadership, perhaps earlier, for whatever reason. Hubbard did make statements to the importance of Love (agape) in the Universe, as well as forgiveness (“What is Greatness”).
The organization did seem to be unfairly attacked by media, government and vested interests in the mental health field early on, so this can set up a bunker mentality unfortunately. You may not understand everything he says, but on YouTube, you will find a video of David Mayo who was for a time, in charge of making sure auditing was being done correctly around the world. It is called “Sunday Talk on Disillusionment” (4 parts) and was done after he left to make his own organization. I’m not a follower of Mayo’s, but he addresses some of your points in the video, and I think everyone should see it. I think had he stayed on, you might have seen a much different Scientology today.
I consider myself a Christian who uses Scientology, and find nothing that is forbidden by Scripture, but in fact find that it illuminates my understanding of Christianity, even though Hubbard may not have shared this understanding. In the Bible, there is no recipe for how to bake a cake or fix a car, but those are not forbidden, and I consider Dianetics and at least basic Scientology to be of that nature. Many people since well before Freud had tried to understand the mind, and in my estimation, Hubbard has come the closest to understanding and describing its mechanisms, as well as finding workable ways of improving one’s mind. He called Scientology a “workable truth”, but said this did not mean that there was not also an “infinite truth”. Ministers and priests are generally sent off to study psychology or psychiatry to help in counseling people, but I believe studying at least Dianetics would give them more effective tools, without the harmful drugs that are being prescribed more and more.
In the 19th century, an illness such as “child-bed fever” which killed many thousands of women after giving birth, was called simply “God’s will”. But it was not God’s will, it was rather an ignorance of the germs that doctors themselves were spreading to those women. In the fullness of time, God brought Louis Pasteur to discover the truth and teach people about germs, even though he was fought tooth and nail for discoveries we have now come to accept. I believe this is an apt analogy for much of Hubbard’s work.
Hope this helps in your continuing understanding. Others who have written above are right; there’s nothing like reading an actual book on a subject (Dianetics, Fundamentals of Thought, etc.), especially when one reads for the purpose of understanding.
Thanks for considering my views and God bless.
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